Valley of Depth

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Christian Garcia, Partner at Breakthrough Energy Ventures — the Bill Gates-backed climate fund investing in bold technologies to accelerate the energy transition across every sector of the economy. With portfolio companies tackling everything from geologic hydrogen to reusable rockets, BEV is redefining what it means to scale climate impact through hard tech. In this conversation, Christian shares how BEV thinks about breakthrough innovation, what makes a venture-backable climate solution, and why some of the most disruptive ideas look impossible—until they’re not. We also get into:BEV’s origin storyHow climate and national security are convergingThe firm’s approach to fusion, hydrogen, and aerospaceWhy BEV backed both CFS and Pacific FusionWhat drew Christian to space — and Stoke Space in particularAnd his take on what’s really being underestimated in climate today• Chapters •0:00 - Intro1:04 - What is Breakthrough Energy Ventures and how is it different from a typical fund?2:26 - BEV's investors and why are they interested5:45 - Is there a defense interest at BEV?9:00 - How did Christian get into this space?11:13 - What is BEV currently focused on?14:17 - What type of breakthrough is BEV investing in and when?17:16 - Firms BEV co-invests with18:34 - Seed and Pre-seed investing25:43 - What is the goal of investing in multiple fusion companies?30:23 - How does space fit in BEV's climate portfolio?34:23 - How do you separate bold vision from wishful thinking?38:03 - Balancing science and storytelling42:08 - Tech that Christian has passed on45:37 - A BEV company that Christian thinks will shock the world with its success48:48 - What are some common misconceptions about climate tech?51:28 - Rapidfire questions • Show notes •BEV’s website — https://www.breakthroughenergy.org/our-work/breakthrough-energy-ventures/BEV’s socials — https://x.com/BreakthroughMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Tejpaul Bhatia, the newly appointed CEO of Axiom Space — a company building one of the first commercial space stations and leading private human spaceflight missions to low Earth orbit. The company is gearing up for Ax-4, Axiom’s fourth mission to the ISS, which will fly astronauts from Poland, Hungary, and India under the command of Axiom astronaut Peggy Whitson. In his first interview (and podcast) as CEO, Tejpaul shares what the leadership transition means for Axiom, why he sees the company as a “forever business,” and how he plans to scale its station, suits, and astronaut programs into a thriving orbital economy. We also get into:Tejpaul’s journey from startup founder to Axiom CEOThe state of the space station market and the case for demandWhat investors misunderstand about orbital infrastructureAxiom’s shifting revenue mix and modular station roadmapHis take on the CLD program and U.S. industrial strategyHow Tejpaul thinks about scaling trust, culture, and ambition in space• Chapters •00:00 Intro00:59 Tejpaul's transition into the CEO role03:25 Tejpaul's background before Axiom08:03 Reaction to being offered CRO role10:50 Previous CEO's departure12:57 Preserving vs evolving at Axiom14:23 Initial priorities as CEO19:06 Free-flying space station market24:37 Number of future space station operators27:06 Science projects vs commercial viability32:44 Current and future revenue streams38:11 Commercial Low-Earth Orbit Destination (CLD)41:21 Moving beyond NASA dependence45:45 Technical roadmap47:19 Astronaut program pricing53:21 What investors miss about stations56:04 Capital requirements and fundraising01:00:07 Cost of first station01:01:35 Axiom & SpaceX relationship01:04:40 Tejpaul's personal interests • Show notes •Axiom’s website — https://axiomspace.com/Axiom’s socials — https://x.com/Axiom_SpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Bryon Hargis is the co-founder and CEO of Castelion, a dynamic defense startup creating affordable hypersonic missile systems. In this conversation, he reflects on his transition from SpaceX and the cultural shifts shaping Castelion's innovative approach. He dives into the rising hypersonic threats posed by China, emphasizing the need for effective non-nuclear deterrence in today's geopolitical landscape. Hargis also discusses the challenges of military procurement and the importance of agile development in defense technology.

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Ed Fyfe, founder of Ed Fyfe Design, a creative studio focused on branding and visual identity for space and hardware companies. With a background in agency work and a passion for the space industry, Ed has built a reputation for helping companies craft compelling brand identities that stand out in a crowded market.In this episode, we explore the role of branding and design in the space industry and why it’s more than just a logo—it’s a strategic asset. We also discuss:– Ed’s journey from working in consumer branding to launching his own space-focused design practice– The importance of branding for space companies and when founders should prioritize it– How SpaceX, NASA, and other major players have influenced space industry branding– Common branding mistakes in the sector and how to avoid them– The impact of branded hardware and creative storytelling in making space companies memorable– The role of brand partnerships and what makes a good collaborationAnd more… • Chapters •00:00 Intro00:53 Ed's journey in design and branding03:45 Why is branding and design important?05:26 Why and when should a space company care about branding?08:45 Why should a space company be thinking about branding?10:38 Common branding mistakes space companies make13:33 How much of brand identity is instinct?15:38 How much of NASA's legacy influenced modern branding strategies18:35 Historical branding elements in the space industry21:56 How do you translate a company's vision into a brand identity?33:34 EO industry's branding39:43 Branded hardware45:08 What are brand partnerships and do they matter?50:14 Advice for space startups on beginning with a strong differentiated brand?55:09 How to find, connect, and work with Ed • Show notes •Ed's website — https://edfyfedesign.com/Ed's email — edfyfedesign@gmail.comMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Jack Kuhr, Research Director at Payload, specializes in the financial analysis of the space industry. He shares insights into SpaceX's projected $13.1 billion revenue for 2024, spotlighting launch services and the booming Starlink network with 4.6 million customers. The discussion covers how Payload builds revenue models, the impact of Starship on launch pricing, and the competitive landscape. Speculations about an upcoming IPO and the potential for SpaceX to become the first trillion-dollar company mesmerize listeners as growth drivers are dissected.

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Matt Weinzierl, Chair of the MBA Program and Professor at Harvard Business School, and Brendan Rosseau, a member of the strategy team for launch at Blue Origin. Together, they’ve co-authored Space to Grow: Unlocking the Final Economic Frontier, a new book exploring the history, key players, and economic forces driving the momentum behind the space industry.We discuss:The evolution of space economics and how government-private sector dynamics are changingThe role of NASA as an anchor customer and whether the model has limitsThe rise of defense-focused pivots in commercial space companiesMarket competition and whether we’re seeing monopolization in spaceThe economic case for lunar activity, space stations, and emerging industriesThe biggest risks that could stall commercial space progressTheir book launches on February 25, and this conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in the economic forces shaping the future of space. You can order here! • Chapters •00:00 Intro04:00 HBS’s Space Program06:36 An introduction to “Space to Grow”08:50 The shift from space to defense13:02 What to expect from the book16:56 Space competition or monopolization?21:52 How classic economic principles apply to space29:24 Are we transitioning away from NASA to anchor customers?33:36 Does space have the right financing structures in place to build this industry?38:47 Economic case for the Moon (Mars?)44:16 Viability of space stations48:22 What space industries have the best economic potential in the next couple decades?52:32 Biggest impediment to the space industry55:43 Key takeaways from “Space to Grow”59:05 Matt and Brendan's favorite books01:01:13 Where to find Matt and Brendan • Show notes •Space to Grow — https://www.amazon.com/Space-Grow-Unlocking-Economic-Frontier/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Jeremiah Pate, founder and CEO of Lunasonde, a company pioneering subsurface imaging from space. Lunasonde is developing technology to map the Earth’s underground, leveraging low-frequency synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to identify critical minerals and resources.With two satellites launched and the first full-tech satellite in their constellation set to launch in July, this episode dives into how Lunasonde is reshaping resource exploration. We also discuss:Lunasonde’s founding story and Jeremiah’s inspiration for the companyThe fundamentals of subsurface SAR and how it differs from traditional radar technologiesThe company’s royalty-based business model and its potential to disrupt the critical minerals industryReal-world applications, including a breakthrough discovery of a previously unknown copper depositThe long-term vision for Lunasonde, including applications beyond Earth and mapping resources on the Moon and asteroidsInsights on the challenges of scaling a space startup and navigating regulatory barriersAnd more… • Chapters •00:00 Intro03:04 What is SAR?05:19 What is subsurface?06:29 Critical minerals and Lunasonde's approach to the market07:49 Size & demand10:20 System architecture11:28 Lunasonde's launches12:02 Interpreting SAR data13:27 SubSAR vs seismic imaging or ground penetrating radar15:25 Environmental reasons behind building subSAR16:22 How to ensure accuracy and reliability of the data17:08 Corona satellites20:48 How does Lunasonde convince ideal customers to embrace new technologies?22:48 Examples of discovering new deposits24:09 Lunasonde's competitors26:02 Why do people think subSAR is impossible?27:12 Going beyond the Earth28:39 Other revenue models30:27 Commercial vs government traction31:27 Is Lunasonde looking for partnerships with space mining startups?32:14 Scaling path33:09 Funding34:11 What keeps Jeremiah up at night?34:52 Long-term vision36:53 Could orgs like NASA use Lunasonde's capabilities for more intensive resource hunting missions?38:28 What would Jeremiah like to change in the space industry?40:51 If Jeremiah wasn't working at Lunasonde, where would he like to work? • Show notes •Lunasonde’s website — https://www.lunasonde.com/Lunasonde’s socials — https://x.com/Lunasonde/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we’re joined by Awais Ahmed, founder and CEO of Pixxel, a company focused on developing hyperspectral imaging technology from space. Pixxel is developing the world’s first commercial hyperspectral satellite constellation, aiming to provide detailed insights into critical industries like agriculture, energy, and defense.With the recent launch of three Firefly satellites—the first in Pixxel’s commercial fleet—this episode explores the company’s progress and vision for the future of Earth observation. We also discuss:Pixxel’s founding story and Awais’ background in satellite engineering and Hyperloop competitionsThe fundamentals of hyperspectral imaging and its advantages over traditional imaging methodsPixxel’s satellite constellation plans and how they’re balancing commercial and government marketsThe role of AI in satellite imaging and its potential to unlock new applicationsAwais’ take on the evolving Earth observation market and the challenges of scaling a space startupAnd more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:48 - Impact of the new administration02:32 - The story behind Pixxel07:37 - Hyperspectral imaging11:14 - How hyperspectral fits into the other types of satellite imaging15:01 - How big is the satellite imaging market today?17:30 - Government uses and advancements in hyperspectral21:30 - Established commercial vs growing government markets25:23 - What does Pixxel's constellation look like?27:22 - Firefly vs Honeybee28:03 - Customer experience at Pixxel29:46 - AI's impact33:44 - Most valuable part of the EO stack36:05 - Starlink architecture and other EO businesses37:49 - Pixxel's commercial traction39:27 - What's a good margin profile?42:01 - Valuation of public EO businesses45:19 - Raising private capital in EO and fundraising plans48:37 - Pixxel in 203550:22 - What else excites Awais besides EO?51:29 - Pixxel's US office • Show notes •Pixxel’s website — https://www.pixxel.space/Pixxel’s socials — https://x.com/PixxelSpaceAwais’ socials — https://x.com/awaisahmednaMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Adam Draper, founder of Boost VC, discusses his journey in venture capital and the family legacy in the space industry. He emphasizes the importance of backing 'impossible' ideas in deep tech and shares insights on evaluating committed founders. Adam delves into the unpredictability of space investments, highlighting the significance of storytelling and transparency in startups. He also speculates on the future of space and biopharma, including the intriguing possibility of discovering extraterrestrial life.

This week on Pathfinder, we’re ready to kick off 2025 with our first episode back from a brief holiday hiatus. Joining us is Stefan Powell, co-founder and CEO of Dawn Aerospace—a company focused on building scalable, sustainable space transportation solutions. After cutting their teeth with an in-space propulsion business, Dawn is now pushing the boundaries with Aurora, a rocket-powered plane that recently breaking the sound barrier (or Mach 1).In this episode, we explore:From Student Rocket Club to Thriving Venture: Stefan’s background and how his early rocketry experiences shaped Dawn’s mission.Satellite Propulsion: Why Dawn’s safer, scalable alternatives to traditional satellite fuel are gaining traction in the market—and how they enable near-term revenue.Aurora’s Breakthrough Flight: Hitting Mach 1.1, testing supersonic aerodynamics, and the path toward suborbital flight capabilities.Hypersonics & Beyond: Why government R&D and military programs are pouring billions into hypersonics research—and how Dawn plans to help solve the “access-to-test-time” gap.Aircraft-Like Space Access: Dawn’s long-term vision for truly rapid, reusable, runway-based vehicles that could revolutionize launch operations.Building for the Future, One Step at a Time: How Stefan thinks about scaling, capital efficiency, and bridging near-term commercial opportunities with an ambitious roadmap.…and much, more. • Chapters •00:00:00 - Intro00:01:45 - Founding Dawn00:06:33 - Core products00:08:52 - Sustainability00:11:25 - How Stefan got into the space industry00:16:20 - What Stefan is developing with Aurora00:19:09 - Recent flight00:20:38 - Why is it important to go past Mach 1?00:24:02 - Technical milestones before full orbital capabilities00:26:43 - Hypersonics and building commercial ability00:30:23 - Government customers00:31:39 - Opportunities in hypersonic weapons?00:33:02 - Payload capacity of first commercial launch vehicle00:33:58 - Long-term scaling goals00:37:15 - What is so difficult about building commercial hypersonic platforms?00:42:05 - Most significant hurdles when it comes to scaling and manufacturing00:44:32 - Building in New Zealand00:46:38 - Revenue mix00:48:15 - Capital efficiency00:51:47 - Effect of Starship on the launch market00:53:42 - What does success look like for Dawn over the next 10 years00:56:25 - What Stefan has learned about being a CEO/Founder for 15 years00:58:11 - Everything's on the table • Show notes •Dawn’s website — https://www.dawnaerospace.com/Dawn’s socials — https://x.com/DawnAerospaceStefan’s socials — https://x.com/Stefan__PowellMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/