Valley of Depth

Lt. Gen. (Ret.) David “Abu” Nahom spent decades defending the American homeland, from commanding Alaska Command and the 11th Air Force to shaping Air Force budgets and strategy as the A8. Mike Dickey started his career in the original Strategic Defense Initiative, helped build the USSF and now advises companies and government leaders on the future of national security. Together, they unpack the realities behind Golden Dome: what it is, what it isn’t, and why it may be the most complex defense undertaking of our time.Inside the episode:Why homeland defense is no longer a Cold War problem and why threats across all domains demand a fundamentally new architectureWhat it actually takes to detect, track, and intercept advanced weapons, from ballistic missiles to hypersonics to low-observable cruise missilesHow command & control is the real bottleneck, and why BMC2 will define the success or failure of Golden DomeWhy integrating F-35s, space sensors, legacy radars, and new AI systems is a social-engineering challenge as much as a technical oneThe role of startups in a mission where “move fast and break things” collides with the reality of life-or-death stakesWhy public perception lags far behind the actual threat picture and what Americans get wrong about homeland defenseThe technologies on the horizon that could completely reshape missile defense in the next decade• Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:41 – David's and Mike's Backgrounds04:01 – How Elara Nova has grown since last episode05:17 – What makes Golden Dome different?08:00 – How exposed has the US been to missile threats?10:53 – What is the Golden Dome supposed to look like today?14:02 – Not reinventing the wheel16:38 – Capabilities of today and tomorrow23:00 – How new modes of launch change missile defense24:57 – Integrating new solutions with current systems27:15 – Golden Dome isn't a technology problem29:41 – How much does ego play into the social engineering challenge of the Golden Dome?32:47 – Unable to fail in this startup-driven golden age of space and defense tech36:11 – Risks of the Golden Dome budget ballooning39:29 – The deterrence calculus42:12 – How will Golden Dome interface with our allies44:20 – Exciting defense tech being developed or doesn’t exist yet46:29 – How putting weapons in space changes things48:13 – Golden Dome issues they wish were fixed today50:24 – What everyday Americans don't understand about the Golden Dome53:01 – Measurable outcomes that the Golden Dome works54:56 – What Mike and David do for fun• Show notes •Elara Nova’s website — https://elaranova.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Halen Mattison, Co-founder and CEO of General Galactic, left SpaceX to pursue a vision for advanced space propellant infrastructure. He discusses his innovative water electrolysis propulsion system, Genesis, which aims to deliver high efficiency using abundant resources. Halen highlights the industry's reluctance to adopt new technology, the importance of specific impulse for mission economics, and the potential of mobility services to support long-term lunar and Martian infrastructures. He envisions a future with refueling depots stretching from low Earth orbit to Mars.

Space has a power problem. Satellites need more electricity and better protection, yet solar arrays are slow to build and failure-prone, and shielding adds mass and complexity. Atomic-6 is tackling both sides at once.Our guest this week is Trevor Smith, founder and CEO of Atomic-6. His team is building Light Wing, a redeployable, mass-manufacturable solar array aimed at higher watts per kilogram and faster delivery, and Space Armor, an RF-permeable debris shield designed to stop hypervelocity impacts while preserving comms and resisting directed energy. The company’s first on-orbit hardware is slated for February 2026, and they’re pursuing multi-billion-dollar constellation opportunities alongside a long-term purchase agreement with a private space-station builder.Inside the episode:Why reliability, not just power density, wins satellite programsHow a space power gigafactory could reset constellation economicsWhat “cell-agnostic” really means for supply chain and performanceThe new “radome for space” capability and where it matters for defenseCislunar prospects, lunar-orbit data centers, and vertical solar towersLessons from working with Space Force and navigating dual-use fundingThe state of the U.S. industrial base and why solar arrays are a top supply-chain priority • Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:47 – How Atomic-6 got started03:06 – Building the power grid for space04:09 – Why is Atomic-6 building what it's building05:58 – Dollars per watt per kilo07:18 – Cell agnostic07:58 – How Trevor got into the space industry09:14 – Team construction at Atomic-609:49 – What type of people is Atomic-6 looking for?10:35 – Atomic-6's key product offering10:58 – Current customers and opportunities at Atomic-611:38 – Pipeline13:07 – Manufacturing scaling14:04 – How much is an operator spending on solar arrays?15:12 – Who would we go to today for building a satellite array and what would they be missing?16:33 – Space Armor19:44 – What is a radome?20:34 – Whipple Shield deployment21:11 – Significance of being transparent to radio signals21:41 – Terrestrial applications for the Whipple Shield23:24 – How Atomic-6 came to developing the Whipple Shield24:48 – Opportunity vs Light Wing and Space Armor25:38 – Defense traction with Space Armor26:52 – Atomic-6's business model29:17 – Milestones30:35 – Vertical integration32:34 – Other products that Atomic-6 is developing33:42 – Developments in advanced materials that will define architecture in space36:18 – What does success look like for Atomic-6 in 5 to 10 years?36:59 – What keeps Trevor up at night?38:05 – Government support40:17 – The legacy Trevor wants Atomic-6 to leave behind • Show notes •Atomic-6’s website — https://www.atomic-6.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Austin Link, co-founder of Starfish Space and former Blue Origin engineer, delves into the revolutionary concept of on-orbit satellite servicing. He discusses the creation of Otter, an autonomous vehicle designed to dock with satellites for life-extension and disposal. Listeners learn about the challenges of recovering tumbling spacecraft and the balance of cost and value in the growing market for satellite servicing. Austin shares insights into future missions and the long-term vision for a sustainable space infrastructure, highlighting the importance of autonomy in this evolving field.

In this engaging discussion, Nicolaas Verheem, CEO of TRL11 and a pioneer in wireless video technology, explores the revolutionary potential of video in space. He highlights how video serves as the "missing sensor" in spacecraft, providing unparalleled insights for mission awareness, health monitoring, and enablement. Nicolaas shares lessons from early orbital missions, the importance of software over hardware for competitive advantage, and his vision for a future where every spacecraft has access to live video feeds. The conversation delves into transforming the space economy with cutting-edge edge computing and radiation-tolerant technology.

Neel Kunjur, the CTO and co-founder of K2 Space, leads the charge in building mega and giga-class satellites. He explains how K2 is redefining satellite capabilities with in-house subsystems that dramatically cut costs. The conversation explores why larger, high-power satellites are critical for new mission architectures, the untapped potential of Medium Earth Orbit, and innovative designs like large reaction wheels. Neel also shares insights on their ambitious plans to scale production and tackle future space infrastructure.

This episode is presented by L3Harris Technologies.On this special edition of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Kristin Houston, President of Space Propulsion and Power Systems at L3Harris. Kristin leads the team responsible for propulsion and space power systems across Artemis and beyond, from the RS-25 main engines to the Gateway’s high-power electric propulsion system to Fission Surface Power (FSP) on the Moon. We dive into how Artemis II is shaping up, the role of SLS, and why nuclear power and propulsion may be the linchpin of America’s long-term space presence.We also discuss:What Artemis II is designed to prove, and why precision on Artemis I mattered so muchHow Artemis ties directly into national security and the new lunar race with ChinaFSP – what it is, why it matters, and why NASA is accelerating it nowNuclear propulsion: hype vs. physics, and how soon it could be operationalWhy maneuverability in space is becoming the next strategic advantageGolden Dome and how propulsion/power innovations fit into the architectureThe propulsion milestone Kristin wants to see in the next 10 years…and much more.Check out this Valley of Depth on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube.• Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:47 – Kristin's background03:47 – Why are we going back to the Moon?07:10 – State of the Artemis program09:28 – L3Harris's involvement in Artemis10:48 – What does success look like for Artemis 2?12:38 – Orbital maneuvers and landing14:35 – Lessons from Artemis I that's giving confidence into Artemis II15:45 – Artemis II readiness, risk, and pacing16:39 – What needs to go right in Artemis II18:55 – The need for the SLS rocket19:57 – The criticism of the SLS22:28 – Could Starship and the SLS coexist?24:33 – National security ROI for sustained Lunar operations27:02 – Are we underestimating China?27:40 – What if China gets to the Moon first?31:13 – The question about power34:59 – Minimum power requirements on the Moon35:45 – Government's renewed focus on nuclear36:57 – How far away are we from nuclear propulsion?39:27 – Maneuverability in space42:20 – Defense focused propulsion systems42:57 – Golden Dome46:11 – Propulsion milestones • Show notes •L3Harris’s website — https://www.l3harris.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Tyler Bernstein, CEO and co-founder of Zeno Power, is revolutionizing energy with nuclear batteries that convert radioactive waste into long-lasting power. His company has secured significant funding and contracts with NASA and the DoD. In the discussion, Tyler explains how these batteries work, focusing on Strontium-90 as a starting fuel. He highlights applications in challenging environments, from the seabed to lunar missions, and shares insights on navigating regulations and the future of energy as Zeno continue to scale their innovative technology.

Continuous human presence in orbit has been a cornerstone of U.S. leadership in space for 25 years. But recent changes to NASA’s Commercial LEO Destinations (CLD) strategy have Pam Melroy—former NASA Deputy Administrator and shuttle commander—sounding the alarm. She warns that shifting to short-duration missions risks ceding leadership in LEO and undermining U.S. readiness for Mars, opening the door for China to take the mantle.On this episode of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Pam to talk about the state of NASA, the future of space stations, and why requirements, the often overlooked backbone of program management, will determine whether the U.S. stays ahead. We trace her career from test pilot to shuttle commander to senior leadership at NASA, DARPA, and the FAA, and unpack what it means to build an architecture that actually holds together from LEO to Mars.We also discuss:Why continuous presence in LEO is a national security and leadership issueHow the CLD Phase 2 shift could reshape investor and partner confidenceThe role of SpaceX and Starship in the Moon–Mars roadmapWhat it takes to write requirements that don’t doom a program from the startPam’s vision of LEO, the Moon, and Mars in 2045…and much more.This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com.• Chapters •00:00 – Intro00:55 – WSBW Ad01:21 – The key to Pam's success03:32 – The state of NASA05:01 – NASA in the next decade if we stay in our current trajectory06:58 – Why is maintaining a human presence in LEO so important?10:18 – The changing CLD Strategy15:29 – Cost and impact of continuous vs 30-day missions18:01 – NASA's requirements23:50 – Disintegration of requirements27:32 – Impact of the shift in CLD strategy29:52 – Why go back to the Moon?31:35 – Does the media understand the impact of landing on the Moon and Mars?35:19 – Why do 30-day missions make sense37:53 – Will China beat us back to the Moon?41:41 – Cultural impact if China beats us to the Moon45:17 – Does the Artemis program have the right architecture to succeed?47:46 – Is NASA too dependent on SpaceX?52:47 – How much should the U.S. be interested56:02 – What did leading the space shuttle teach Pam about leadership?57:54 – Inspiring the next generation of space exploration58:46 – Prediction 20 years later01:01:37 – Aliens? • Show notes •Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Logistics rarely makes headlines, but it wins or loses wars. Rune Technologies is betting that the future of contested sustainment won’t be built on warehouses and spreadsheets, but on software. The company recently raised a $24M Series A to accelerate that vision.On this episode of Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Rune co-founder and CEO David Tuttle to talk about how the company is reimagining military logistics from the ground up. We trace Rune’s path from early prototypes to today’s TyrOS platform, discuss the cultural inertia inside the Pentagon, and unpack what it means to build software that commanders can trust under fire.We also get into:The founding story of Rune and the early technical unlocksBuilding TyrOS and winning adoption with frontline commandsWhat it takes to design software soldiers actually want to useWhy logistics is becoming a strategic lever in great power competitionThe long-term vision for software-defined sustainment…and much more.This episode is brought to you by World Space Business Week, taking place September 15–19 in Paris. WSBW is one of the leading annual gatherings for the global space industry, bringing together executives, investors, government officials, and innovators from across commercial, defense, and satellite sectors. Learn more at wsbw.com.• Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:02 – WSBW01:27 – The story behind the name "Rune"03:02 – What is Rune building?04:34 – David's background and how he ended up founding Rune08:10 – Why David and Peter Goldsborough had to make Rune exist10:43 – Logistics in warfare13:02 – How logistics are still being tracked today and why it’s outdated17:05 – How TyrOS changes the logistics of the battlefield21:56 – Operating in denied or degraded environments24:54 – Who's using Rune's products right now and future scaling29:20 – What has surprised David the most31:08 – Pilot to program of record with the DoD33:39 – Competitive landscape36:01 – Will Rune stay in Defense?37:30 – Will software like Rune's change military doctrine?40:28 – Software making decisions in life-or-death scenarios42:45 – Contrarian beliefs about defense tech46:12 – Milestones to look out for at Rune47:32 – What does the US military look like if Rune succeeds?48:59 – What does David do for fun? • Show notes •Rune’s website — https://www.runetech.co/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com