Valley of Depth

Julien Barber is an investor at Emerson Collective, a venture and policy firm founded by Laurene Powell Jobs, where he backs bold bets on decarbonization, infrastructure, and long-horizon climate technologies. Before becoming an investor, Julien researched fusion energy at MIT and co-founded a carbon-tech startup. In today’s episode, we go deep into Julien’s investing philosophy, Emerson’s unique model, and the hard tech categories he believes are most undercapitalized.We cover:Why Emerson is structured for risk others can’t takeFusion, fission, and the evolving energy stackAI’s impact on power demand and hardware accelerationHow to invest when the grid is the bottleneckBuilding conviction in hard tech when capital is scarcePublic vs. private roles in scaling fusionWhat a 7-million-fold increase in energy density may actually look like• Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:49 – From scientist to investor04:37 – Why Julien chose fusion08:57 – Investment process at Emerson10:08 – The team at Emerson12:15 – Is Emerson consensus-driven and why is it an LLC?14:07 – Under-invested areas in climate & industrial tech17:24 – Are AI valuations reasonable today?18:59 – Bottlenecks in the grid23:11 – AI energy consumption: hype or real concern?27:10 – Bridging the energy gap29:20 – Fusion’s role in the next decade31:24 – Google & Commonwealth Fusion: serious commercial signal?32:37 – Are we underinvesting in fusion?39:12 – Who will reach commercial fusion first?41:36 – 30-year future if fusion succeeds • Show notes •Emerson’s socials — https://x.com/emcollectiveEmerson’s website — https://www.emersoncollective.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Welcome to a special Tuesday-edition of Valley of Depth, powered by Integrate.John Conafay spent years inside the space and defense worlds, from Spire to Astranis to the U.S. Air Force, and saw the same problem everywhere: complex programs were managed with spreadsheets, slide decks, and…crossed fingers. So in 2022, he founded Integrate to fix it. What started as a scrappy startup with five engineers has since landed what he describes as one of the largest software contracts in Space Force history. We discuss: Why defense programs are still run on outdated, fragmented toolsWhat Integrate actually does and how it’s different from Smartsheet or Microsoft ProjectHow Conafay won a $25M Space Force contractThe architecture choices behind real-time collaboration in classified environmentsWhy internal tools and status quo software can’t scale with complexityAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:57 – John's background02:59 – What is Integrate?04:02 – Pain points in complex project management06:08 – John's interest in aerospace10:01 – Core product at Integrate11:20 – Why tools weren't implemented before12:50 – DoD project management & efficiency loss14:29 – Multiplayer coordination approach16:19 – Hardest integration problem17:40 – Security architecture20:17 – Go-to-market & government entry22:18 – $25M Space Force contract26:14 – Future Space Force goals27:59 – Government vs commercial customers29:16 – Pricing30:13 – Profitability, team, funding, scaling32:23 – Ideal investor33:20 – Competitors34:50 – Competing with internal tools36:01 – 10-year product vision37:36 – Strategic risks in the next decade39:42 – Hardest part of building Integrate41:34 – Misconceptions about working with the DoD42:55 – Advice for founders & younger self43:53 – John in another life • Show notes •John’s socials — https://x.com/jconafayIntegrate’s socials —https://x.com/Integrate_coIntegrate’s website — https://integrate.co/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/  • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Chris Kemp, CEO of Astra, shares his rollercoaster journey of taking the company public and navigating rapid ups and downs in the space industry. He discusses the dramatic collapse of Astra's valuation and the lessons learned from the failures of Rocket 3. Kemp provides insights into the decision to take Astra private, the success of their satellite propulsion business, and the ambitious development of Rocket 4. He reflects on his leadership style, the importance of teamwork, and how Astra aims to align with national defense needs while optimizing their launch capabilities.

Jeff Thornburg helped build Raptor at SpaceX. Now he’s building something new: a spacecraft designed for rapid maneuverability across orbits powered by solar thermal propulsion.In this episode of Valley of Depth, we get into the technical, strategic, and commercial implications of in-space mobility and why it matters now. Topics include:The hardest parts of building a rocket engine (and why most startups get it wrong)The origins of the Raptor engine and lessons from SpaceXWhy Portal is betting on solar thermal propulsionHow Supernova enables fast, responsive movement across LEO, MEO, and GEOThe case for refueling in orbit and designing without dependenciesWhy defense needs faster spacecraft and what commercial use cases followHow Thornburg sees Starship changing the economics of spaceand much more… • Chapters •00:00 – Intro01:44 – What drew Jeff to creating engines?05:13 – Why is building rocket engines still so difficult?11:50 – Jeff's time at SpaceX17:52 – Stratolaunch and Commonwealth Fusion and why Jeff moved on22:50 – Origin of Portal25:25 – Commercial use case27:00 – 5 year vision for Portal's architecture32:01 – Pricing34:52 – Solar thermal propulsion38:14 – What comes after Portal's Supernova?41:15 – Customer traction and Supernova flight45:44 – Competition in solar thermal propulsion49:20 – Fundraising prior to the first launch51:18 – Portal in the next 10 years54:53 – State of Starship • Show notes •Jeff’s socials — https://x.com/JeffThornburgAntares’ socials — https://x.com/PortalSpaceSysAntares’ website — https://www.portalsystems.space/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

Jordan Bramble, co-founder and CEO of Antares Nuclear, dives into the exciting world of microreactors, spotlighting their strategic importance for defense and space applications. He discusses the shifting public and political support for nuclear energy, driven by both climate concerns and national security. The conversation also touches on the complexities of nuclear fuel supply chains and the U.S.-China dynamics in nuclear technology. Bramble shares insights on how small modular reactors can complement traditional systems and the future of nuclear innovations.

Blake Scholl, Founder and CEO of Boom Supersonic, is on a mission to revive commercial supersonic travel. He discusses the U.S. government's decision to lift a 50-year ban, which opens new horizons for aviation. Scholl reveals the technological innovations Boom is creating to ensure sustainable and economically viable flights. He also highlights the challenges of engineering ‘quiet boom’ technology and the importance of collaboration with regulators. In a world where faster travel is becoming essential, Scholl believes the future of air travel is not just about luxury but necessity.

Even Rogers, CEO of True Anomaly and former Air Force weapons officer, discusses the urgent need for the U.S. to prepare for potential conflicts in space. He highlights a pivotal moment in 2007 that shifted the perception of space as a battleground. Even dives into the importance of advanced autonomous systems for defense and the role of both public and private sectors in innovation. He also addresses the strategic necessities for the Space Force and the complexities of missile defense, painting a picture of what space superiority truly means.

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Paul Lwin, co-founder and CEO of Havoc AI—a builder of integrated hardware, software, and logistics that enables collaborative, autonomous maritime operations. A former Navy test pilot and electronic warfare officer, Paul saw firsthand the strategic challenge posed by China’s industrial scale in the Pacific and set out to build an asymmetric answer.In this episode, Paul shares how Havoc went from pre-seed to delivering 40+ autonomous vessels in just 18 months, what it takes to deploy real autonomy in contested environments, and why the Navy forced them to sell their early prototypes. We also cover:Why Havoc built 12 USVs with just 5 people and a $1.2M pre-seedHow Ukraine’s naval tactics shifted the Pentagon’s mindsetThe difference between platform, mission, and decision autonomyWhy primes can’t match Havoc’s pace—or price pointHow Replicator changed the rules for startup engagement with DoDWhat it’ll take to get thousands of autonomous boats into the Pacific…and much more.Check out VoD #006 on…YouTube, Apple, or Spotify. • Chapters •0:00 - Intro1:07 - Company Mission & Vision3:43 - DoD Autonomous Exercise Demonstration6:41 - Funding to Demo Timeline8:43 - Founding Team & Headquarters10:19 - Market Demand for Autonomous Maritime Tech12:42 - Vertical Integration Strategy14:30 - US Navy Capability Gaps16:24 - Geopolitics & Business Strategy17:40 - Product Architecture Roadmap21:21 - Commercial Market Potential24:05 - Autonomy Level Achieved26:48 - Contested Environment Design28:24 - Next Frontier in Naval Tech30:04 - Scaling for DoD Requirements32:09 - Competitive Differentiation33:48 - Prime Contractor Advantages35:21 - Replicator Initiative Impact36:19 - Buyer Incentive Structures37:44 - Desired Policy Changes39:09 - Scaling Funding Requirements40:35 - Defining Mission Success • Show notes •Havoc’s socials — https://x.com/HavocAi_USVMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Marc Allen, CEO of Electra and former Chief Strategy Officer at Boeing. After nearly two decades at one of aerospace’s most iconic companies, Marc stepped away—and then doubled down—on aviation with a bold bet: a hybrid-electric aircraft that takes off in 150 feet, carries 1,000 pounds, and can land almost anywhere. In this episode, Marc breaks down why the future of flight is short-runway, low-noise, and mission-flexible—and how Electra’s EL-9 is carving out a new category of aircraft entirely. We also get into:Why hybrid-electric beats all-electricHow Electra won over DOD and NASAThe military’s growing demand for quiet, flexible airliftWhy rotorcraft are ripe for disruptionThe company’s $13B+ order bookAnd how Marc thinks about scaling from Boeing to startup • Chapters •0:00 - Episode Introduction0:58 - Marc's Transition: Boeing to Electra3:13 - Electric Propulsion Breakthrough Moment4:29 - Electra's Core Technology5:17 - Importance of Electric Aircraft6:52 - EL9 vs Helicopter Comparison7:30 - Safety Features10:06 - Automation Capabilities10:54 - Charging Infrastructure11:18 - Technology Maturity Level12:41 - EL9 Market Potential15:57 - Current Demand & Use Cases18:17 - Operator Economics20:20 - Air Force Partnership21:16 - Defense Applications23:43 - Autonomous Potential24:41 - Future Aircraft Versions26:08 - NASA's Interest26:47 - Civil vs Defense Models27:21 - Manufacturing Process29:15 - Certification Timeline31:32 - Key Challenges34:24 - Fundraising Status36:32 - Commercialization Costs38:00 - Upcoming Milestones38:24 - Team Size39:03 - Scaling From Large to Small Company41:15 - OEM Strategy41:50 - 10-Year Vision42:44 - Marc's Personal Interests43:40 - Pilot Training Requirements • Show notes •Electra’s socials — https://x.com/ElectraAeroMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Erik Kriessmann, Partner at Altimeter – the $10B crossover firm known for backing generational companies across tech, defense, and space. From sourcing early-stage deals to helping build world-class teams, Erik’s path into venture started with a deep focus on talent, giving him a rare edge in identifying high-potential founders and building lasting partnerships. In this episode, Erik shares how Altimeter thinks about concentrated investing, why the firm bets big on supercycles, and what it takes to earn a seat at the table with the best teams in tech. We also cover:How Altimeter defines a “supercycle”The firm’s bets across AI, defense, and aerospaceWhat separates a good founder from a great oneWhy Altimeter backed Anduril and K2His take on the Mars hype (spoiler: not yet)And how SpaceX changed the game for everyone…and much more. • Chapters •0:00 - Intro1:05 - Did Erik know he was going to be an investor?1:44 - Erik's career journey9:05 - Going from building talent teams to working with CEOs directly12:07 - The investment philosophy core to Altimeter's growth15:31 - Public vs private side of Altimeter16:42 - How decisions get made19:35 - What is today's super cycle?21:14 - What technologies is Altimeter currently excited about?22:40 - What does Erik look for in a founder?24:25 - How do geopolitics weigh in on Altimeter's investments?27:20 - Space super cycle28:56 - What is Erik on the lookout for in the space industry31:04 - How about Mars?33:42 - Why did Altimeter first invest in Anduril?36:09 - Navigating the DoD procurement process37:50 - Expanding margin with the government customer40:27 - Are we in a defense tech bubble?41:56 - Has Altimeter invested in pure play defense names outside of Anduril?44:03 - Exit paths for Altimeter's investments45:34 - Foreign defense investment opportunities47:34 - What would Erik be doing if he wasn't an investor?49:42 - What's Erik listening to these days? • Show notes •Erik’s socials — https://x.com/ekriessmannBrad’s socials — https://x.com/altcapMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic’s socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com