Analyse Asia with Bernard Leong

"We took a longer time, there was a bit of roundabout, but the fact that we actually made like two or three times on whatever investment amount we did in the beginning - that for me was a very pivotal moment. Just because we didn't give up. The line between success and failure is so thin. So the impact of being a VC space is that you really can influence the technology founders that you back." - Beatrice Lion Fresh out of the studio, Beatrice Lion, the chief executive officer and global partner from True Global Ventures, shares the remarkable story of how she became one of the youngest fund managers and the backstory to secure Singapore's Capital Markets Service license from MAS equivalent to Sequoia & Andreessen Horowitz's RIA licence in the US. Beatrice begins with her unconventional career journey from university straight into venture capital in 2017 and details TGV's investment thesis of backing only tested serial entrepreneurs across AI and blockchain applications. Beatrice offers her perspectives on the convergence of AI and crypto, the evolution of stablecoins as crypto's killer app, corporate treasury strategies such as Michael Saylor's Strategy with Bitcoin and Ethereum Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs), and why TGV maintains their performance-focused philosophy of keeping fund sizes at $100-200 million rather than chasing larger management fees. Last but not least, Beatrice shares what great would look like for TGV in the future. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Beatrice Lyon [01:00] Introduction: Beatrice Lyon, CEO of True Global Ventures [04:27] Supporting portfolio companies through business development [05:03] Successful turnaround story and investment recovery [08:30] How she take the CEO role as operational glue among partners [11:25] MAS approval process for Capital Markets Licence (CMS) [13:00] TGV fund structure: four, five, six overview [14:55] Investment thesis: AI and blockchain applications globally [16:01] Focus on serial entrepreneurs, not first-timers [17:39] CMS license removes 20% constraint limitations [20:54] The rationale behind applying for broad licenses [26:57] Secondary market opportunities and liquidation preferences [30:18] Blockchain landscape evolving toward financial applications [34:49] Private stock tokenization and where it is heading [38:27] Stablecoin as killer app for crypto [39:09] AI agents settling payments with stablecoins [42:25] Different regulatory approaches across jurisdictions [43:36] Corporate crypto treasury strategies beyond Bitcoin, Ethereum DATs and Solana [48:35] 80-20 rule for portfolio company treasuries [50:37] Four-year crypto cycles may be extending [54:31] What does great look like for TGV [59:09] Closing Profile: Beatrice Lion, Chief Executive Officer and General Partner, True Global Ventures: https://www.tgv4plus.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beatricelion/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast: Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

Reuniting after more than a decade since their days in This Week in Asia Podcast from 2009, Michael Smith Jr., co-host of The Generalist podcast, and Daniel Cerventus Lim, semi-retired entrepreneur and community builder in Malaysia, join us for a candid assessment of Southeast Asia's tech ecosystem evolution. In this raw conversation, Michael offers his unflinching perspective on what he calls the 'broken windows era' of Southeast Asian tech, arguing that recent alleged fraud cases like E-Fishery and Tanihub require serious consequences to restore investor confidence, while questioning whether the region was ever correctly modelled for Silicon Valley-style outcomes. Daniel shares his pivot from startup founder to search fund advocate, explaining his bullish view on acquiring profitable traditional businesses and reflects on whether the region's potential was genuinely unrealized or simply impossible to achieve. Together, they explore the shift from venture-backed unicorn dreams to bootstrap realities, debate work ethic of Southeast Asia founders in comparison with Chinese and Indian founders, and discuss why the future of Southeast Asian tech may lie in smaller, profitable exits rather than the massive IPOs once envisioned. "I think wealth creation here is very SME-focused." - Daniel Cerventus Lim "Basically whether, it's SME or startup, to me now it's just: can you build a profitable business?" - Bernard Leong "I have this philosophy that I think people don't agree with me, but we're in a broken Windows era of Southeast Asia and the only way in my opinion, the windows get fixed is if some of these people are behind bars." - Michael Smith Jr. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Daniel Cerventus, Bernard Leong & Michael Smith JR [00:59] Introduction: Daniel Cerventus and Michael Smith Jr. from the Generalists Podcast [06:00] Multiple alleged frauds in Southeast Asia: E-Fishery, Tanihub [09:57] Southeast Asia in "broken windows era" [11:26] Only exits from seed to Series A [11:47] B rounds virtually gone, A rounds endangered. [14:00] 50-100 million exits still viable [16:30] Malaysian crypto companies globally focused [19:25] Country expansion model in ASEAN doesn't work [23:02] Israel model: never think local market [24:15] Razer story: HP Mafia network backing [25:07] Supabase: not really Singapore capital, but globally successful [30:18] Chinese founders arriving with speed [31:19] Work ethic comparisons with India [32:34] Search funds emerging in Singapore [37:25] Mainstream media ignores bootstrap success [39:50] Search fund model targeting aging operators [41:21] SME vs startup distinction blurring [46:20] Hedge funds questioning regional companies [49:32] Unrealized vs impossible potential debate [51:07] Bangladesh ecosystem showing promise [53:20] Structural exit issues remain unsolved [54:31] Reset creating better founder discipline [55:40] Optimistic on Southeast Asia's startup ecosystem [57:21] Closing Profile: Michael Smith Jr., Tech Evangelist from Oracle & Co-Host, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smittysgp/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGeneralistsPodcast   Daniel Cerventus Lim, semi-retired entrepreneur, Community Builder in Malaysia and TEDxKL founder. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cerventus/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/80164351656   Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"The way that institutions emerge and entrench themselves and become a part of the functioning of an economy and society is because they solve some problems. So they're usually a non-market solution toward solving some problem that the economy, that the market system couldn't necessarily solve. Of course the most prominent example of an institution that solves an. Market problem in the non-market way is a firm, as Ronald Coase, of course very early on, taught us that. When a firm realizes that in some cases when transactions costs are high, you want to internalize things within the firm. That the firm is itself an institution. But these other social political institutions, they also exist to resolve some problem. And once they resolve that problem and they're resolving it adequately, then it becomes really hard to bring about change. So the institution solves a problem. So to be clear, it is better than in the absence of the institution, but it also means that without somehow breaking this institution or having some crisis that leads you to substantially reform the institution, you are going to be stuck at a suboptimal equilibrium." - Jamus Lim, author of "Asian Economies: History, Institutions and Structures" Fresh out of the studio, Associate Professor Jamus Lim from ESSEC Business School and author of "Asian Economies: History, Institutions and Structures" joined us in a comprehensive exploration of the economic foundations shaping Asia's remarkable rise. Jamus shared his story on how the Asian Financial Crisis sparked his passion for macroeconomics and development. He unpacked the critical yet often overlooked role of geography, history, and institutional frameworks in explaining Asia's immense economic diversity, arguing that abstract economic models fail to capture the real-world complexities driving regional development. Through deep dives into China's demographic transition and export-driven challenges, South Korea's state-led chaebol industrialization model, and Japan's historic shift from deflation to inflation, Jamus demonstrated how colonial legacies and historical persistence continue to shape modern economic structures across the continent. Throughout the conversation, he revealed why China's middle-income trap escape depends on building domestic consumption to absorb its massive manufacturing capacity, explained how institutional solutions that once solved problems can become growth constraints, and argued that understanding Asia's past is essential for navigating its economic future in an increasingly complex global landscape. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Jamus Lim [02:27] Introduction: Jamus Lim, Associate Professor in ESSEC Business School and Author of Asian Economies [04:38] Asian Financial Crisis sparks Jamus' macro economics interest [07:38] Teaching in Asia reveals regional development contrasts [09:10] Middle income trap challenges across Asian economies [10:23] Defining Asia: beyond East Asia stereotypes [15:10] How Geography and History are overlooked in economic discourse [17:26] China's transformation: poverty to economic powerhouse [19:32] Demographic transition challenges across East Asia [22:21] China's manufacturing evolution and export strategy [24:28] Lewis turning point: China's labor transformation [26:11] Housing boom and excess supply challenges [29:10] Hukou system creates unequal access issues [33:30] China shock: WTO entry transforms global manufacturing [38:27] South Korea's state-led industrialization model success [39:10] Zaibatsu to Chaebol: the colonial influence on economic structures [42:00] Heavy chemical industry: successful state intervention in South Korea [44:17] Japan's deflation to inflation transition challenges [46:32] Structural adjustments in Japanese labor markets [48:03] Institutional foundations: solving problems creates persistence [54:04] Academic success vs. real-world policy impact [55:00] Closing Profile: Jamus Lim, Author of Asian Economies, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamuslim/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

Paul Harapin, Chief Revenue Officer for APAC and Japan at Stripe, shares insights on Stripe's impressive growth in a region contributing 40% of global GDP. He highlights the vital role of AI and stablecoins in revolutionizing commerce, tailored for diverse markets like Japan, China, and India. Paul discusses innovations like agentic commerce toolkits and adaptive pricing solutions that drive scalability. He also explores key trends in AI-powered payments, making a case for stablecoins as a transformative solution for emerging markets.

Feon Ang, Managing Director of LinkedIn Asia Pacific, shares her journey from publishing to leading tech, emphasizing LinkedIn’s role in empowering professionals amidst the AI revolution. She discusses the critical skills gap and the importance of online learning for job seekers. The conversation covers the rapid hiring shifts in the region, emphasizing the necessity for fluency in emerging technologies. Additionally, Feon highlights LinkedIn's initiatives to create economic opportunities and its commitment to supporting disadvantaged communities.

Doug Burger, a Technical Fellow at Microsoft Research, shares insights from his journey in elite research. He emphasizes the importance of trust and empowerment within research teams, enabling groundbreaking advancements in AI and quantum computing. The conversation covers Microsoft's expansion into Southeast Asia, collaborative innovations in healthcare, and the evolution of coding towards natural language programming. Burger also discusses the transformative impact of AI while addressing ethical considerations and the necessity for regional collaboration in driving societal benefits.

"China's approach is very pragmatic. People have been saying DeepSeek did it out of necessity. There's obviously a GPU constraint and hardware constraint in China, something they're working around. In many ways, the engineering genius and engineering innovation is what set DeepSeek apart. It challenged a global narrative around needing more GPUs and more money to get better AI. It was about throwing capital at the problem. It was a different approach because the capital ecosystem in China itself is very different. People talk about proof of concept - you have to prove your concept first in China to get funding. For many startups, they weren't getting much funding before the DeepSeek moment. To your point, no one really knew it would have a strong ROI, so only the BATs that had money and understood the technology were backing it." - Grace Shao, Founder of AI Proem Newsletter Fresh out of the studio, Grace Shao, founder of AI Proem Newsletter and former CNBC and CGTN journalist, joins us to explore the rise of generative AI in China and how it's reshaping the global technology narrative. She began the story of her career journey and started with the conversation reflecting on how the DeepSeek moment revitalized China's internet sector after years of regulatory challenges and geopolitical tensions. Grace unpacks the pragmatic Chinese approach to AI development, explaining how companies like ByteDance, Alibaba, and Tencent are leveraging their unique ecosystems and data advantages while startups embrace open-weight models to prove innovation over imitation. She discusses why the "China versus US AI arms race" narrative misses the point, the strategic reasons behind companies relocating to avoid geopolitical sensitivities, and how distribution challenges are separating winners from losers in the consumer AI space. Addressing the broader implications, Grace explores the real opportunities in robotics, vertical AI applications, and why collaboration rather than competition should define the industry's future. Closing the conversation, she shares her vision for bridging cultural understanding between East and West and what success looks like for the next generation of AI development. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Grace Shao, Founder of AI Proem [01:21] Introduction: Grace Shao from AI Proem [04:29] China's tech moves incredibly fast. [08:09] China's generative AI landscape: BATs, Startups & Research Labs [09:23] Most AI startups have financial ties with Alibaba or Tencent [10:02] Chinese AI approach more pragmatic: commercialize quickly versus philosophical AGI pursuit [12:23] Alibaba's approach to LLMs with Qwen [15:00] Tencent's WeChat integration with DeepSeek vs Tencent Yuanbao [18:03] ByteDance pivots to multimodal LLM models [21:31] DeepSeek moment revitalized China's internet sector after rough 2022-2024 period [27:28] DeepSeek and Kimi embrace open-weight models for talent and adoption [29:46] Open sourcing as strategic decision for China LLMs [33:19] US capital pullout from China forced companies like Manus overseas to Singapore [37:17] Robotics in China: Unitree Robotics, UBTech and Galbot [42:05] Chinese startups focus on vertical integration rather than competing on LLMs [43:51] Healthcare and agricultural AI applications extremely advanced in China [44:13] This isn't an arms race; framing as competition misses the point [45:49] China and US should collaborate on AI safety and regulation for future generations [49:00] Closing Profile: Grace Shao, Founder of AI Proem Newsletter: https://aiproem.substack.com/ Personal Site: https://www.proemcommunications.com/aboutgraceshao LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gmzshao/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnalyseAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"[Question: So what was the biggest misconception for most business leaders usually when it comes to operationalizing AI governance?] Based on my interactions and conversations, now suddenly they think they have to erect a whole set of new committees, that they have to have these new programs. You almost hear a sigh from the room. Like, oh, we have now this whole additional compliance cost because we have to do all these new things. The reason I see that as a bit of a misconception, because building on everything that was just said earlier, you already have compliance, you already have committees, you already have governance. It's an integration of that because otherwise guess what's gonna happen? We all know that this is the next thing around the corner that's gonna pop up, whatever it's gonna be called. Are you gonna have to set up a whole new committee just because of that? Then the next thing, another one." - David Hardoon Fresh out of the studio, David Hardoon, Global Head of AI Enablement at Standard Chartered Bank, joins us in a conversation to explore how financial institutions can adopt AI responsibly at scale. He shares his unique journey from academia to government to global banking, reflecting on his fascination with human behavior that originally drew him to artificial intelligence. David explains how his time at Singapore's Monetary Authority shaped the groundbreaking FAIR principles, emphasizing how proper AI governance actually accelerates rather than inhibits innovation. He highlights real-world implementations from autonomous cash reconciliation agents to transaction monitoring systems, showcasing how banks are transforming operations while maintaining strict regulatory compliance. Addressing the biggest misconceptions about AI governance, he emphasizes the importance of integrating AI frameworks into existing structures rather than creating entirely new bureaucracies, while advocating for use-case-based approaches that build essential trust. Closing the conversation, David shares his philosophy that AI success ultimately depends on understanding human behavior and asks the fundamental question every organization should consider: "Why are we doing this?" Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by David Hardoon #QOTD - "AI governance isn't new bureaucracy." [00:46] Introduction: David Hardoon from Standard Chartered Bank. [02:02] How David's AI journey started with human behavior curiosity. [07:26] Governance accelerates innovation, like traffic rules enable fast driving. [10:31] FAIR principles in MAS Singapore born from lunches with compliance officers. [14:23] Don't reinvent governance wheel for AI implementations. [24:17] Banks already manage risk; apply same discipline to AI. [28:40] AI adoption problem is trust, not technology. [34:21] Autonomous AI agents handle cash reconciliation with bank IDs. [36:00] AI reduces transaction monitoring false positives by 50%. [39:54] AI requires full supply chain from infrastructure to translators. [41:52] Organizations must reward intelligent failure in AI innovation. [44:47] AI hallucination is a feature, not bug for innovation. [47:35] Measure AI ROI differently for innovation versus implementation teams. [56:27] Final wisdom: People always ask "why" about AI initiatives. Profile: David Hardoon, Global Head of AI Enablement, Standard Chartered Bank Personal Site: https://davidroihardoon.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidrh/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Analys1eAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"You can try to develop self-awareness and take a beginner's mind in all things. This includes being open to feedback and truly listening, even when it might be hard to receive. I think that's been something I've really tried to practice. The other area is recognizing that just like a company or country, as humans we have many stakeholders. You may wear many hats in different ways. So as we think of the totality of your life over time, what's your portfolio of passions? How do you choose—as individuals, as society, as organizations, as humans and families with our loved ones and friends—to not just spend your time and resources, but really invest your time, resources, and spirit into areas, people, and contexts that bring you meaning and where you can build a legacy? So it's not so much advice, but more like a north star." - Sabastian V. Niles Fresh out of the studio, Sabastian Niles, President and Chief Legal Officer at Salesforce Global, joins us to explore how trust and responsibility shape the future of enterprise AI. He shares his journey from being a high-tech corporate lawyer and trusted advisor to leading AI governance at a company whose number one value is trust, reflecting on the evolution from automation to agentic AI that can reason, plan, and execute tasks alongside humans. Sabastian explains how Agentforce 3.0 enables agent-to-agent interactions and human-AI collaboration through command centers and robust guardrails. He highlights how organizations are leveraging trusted AI for personalized customer experiences, while Salesforce's Office of Ethical and Humane Use operationalizes trust through transparency, explainability, and auditability. Addressing the black box problem in AI, he emphasizes that guardrails provide confidence to move faster rather than creating barriers. Closing the conversation, Sabastian shares his vision on what great looks like for trusted agentic AI at scale. Episode Highlights [00:00] Quote of the Day by Sabastian Niles: "Portfolio of passions - invest your spirit into areas that bring meaning" [01:02] Introduction: Sabastian Niles, President and Chief Legal Officer of Salesforce Global [02:29] Sabastian's Career Journey [04:50] From Trusted Advisor to SalesForce whose number one value is trust [08:09] Salesforce's 5 core values: Trust, Customer Success, Innovation, Equality, Sustainability [10:25] Defining Agentic AI: humans with AI agents driving stakeholder success together [13:13] Trust paradigm shift: trusted approaches become an accelerant, not obstacle [17:33] Agent interactions: not just human-to-agent, but agent-to-agent-to-agent handoffs [23:35] Enterprise AI requires transparency, explainability, and auditability [28:00] Trust philosophy: "begins long before prompt, continues after output" [34:06] Office of Ethical and Humane Use operationalizes trust values [40:00] Future vision: AI helps us spend time on uniquely human work [45:17] Governance philosophy: Guardrails provide confidence to move faster [48:24] What does great look like for Salesorce for Trust & Responsibility in the Era of AI? [50:16] Closing Profile: Sabastian V. Niles, President & Chief Legal Officer, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabastian-v-niles-b0175b2/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnalyseAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/

Patrick McGee, San Francisco correspondent for the Financial Times and author of "Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greatest Company," dives into Apple's intricate relationship with China. He discusses how Apple’s supply chain strategy inadvertently fostered China’s tech superpower status. McGee shares tales of negotiation tactics, including the ‘Apple Squeeze,’ and explores the cultural challenges Apple faces as it tries to shift its manufacturing to India. His insights reveal the broader implications for global tech and supply chains amidst evolving geopolitical tensions.