Analyse Asia with Bernard Leong

"The way that institutions emerge and entrench themselves and become a part of the functioning of an economy and society is because they solve some problems. So they're usually a non-market solution toward solving some problem that the economy, that the market system couldn't necessarily solve. Of course the most prominent example of an institution that solves an. Market problem in the non-market way is a firm, as Ronald Coase, of course very early on, taught us that. When a firm realizes that in some cases when transactions costs are high, you want to internalize things within the firm. That the firm is itself an institution. But these other social political institutions, they also exist to resolve some problem. And once they resolve that problem and they're resolving it adequately, then it becomes really hard to bring about change. So the institution solves a problem. So to be clear, it is better than in the absence of the institution, but it also means that without somehow breaking this institution or having some crisis that leads you to substantially reform the institution, you are going to be stuck at a suboptimal equilibrium." - Jamus Lim, author of "Asian Economies: History, Institutions and Structures" Fresh out of the studio, Associate Professor Jamus Lim from ESSEC Business School and author of "Asian Economies: History, Institutions and Structures" joined us in a comprehensive exploration of the economic foundations shaping Asia's remarkable rise. Jamus shared his story on how the Asian Financial Crisis sparked his passion for macroeconomics and development. He unpacked the critical yet often overlooked role of geography, history, and institutional frameworks in explaining Asia's immense economic diversity, arguing that abstract economic models fail to capture the real-world complexities driving regional development. Through deep dives into China's demographic transition and export-driven challenges, South Korea's state-led chaebol industrialization model, and Japan's historic shift from deflation to inflation, Jamus demonstrated how colonial legacies and historical persistence continue to shape modern economic structures across the continent. Throughout the conversation, he revealed why China's middle-income trap escape depends on building domestic consumption to absorb its massive manufacturing capacity, explained how institutional solutions that once solved problems can become growth constraints, and argued that understanding Asia's past is essential for navigating its economic future in an increasingly complex global landscape. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Jamus Lim [02:27] Introduction: Jamus Lim, Associate Professor in ESSEC Business School and Author of Asian Economies [04:38] Asian Financial Crisis sparks Jamus' macro economics interest [07:38] Teaching in Asia reveals regional development contrasts [09:10] Middle income trap challenges across Asian economies [10:23] Defining Asia: beyond East Asia stereotypes [15:10] How Geography and History are overlooked in economic discourse [17:26] China's transformation: poverty to economic powerhouse [19:32] Demographic transition challenges across East Asia [22:21] China's manufacturing evolution and export strategy [24:28] Lewis turning point: China's labor transformation [26:11] Housing boom and excess supply challenges [29:10] Hukou system creates unequal access issues [33:30] China shock: WTO entry transforms global manufacturing [38:27] South Korea's state-led industrialization model success [39:10] Zaibatsu to Chaebol: the colonial influence on economic structures [42:00] Heavy chemical industry: successful state intervention in South Korea [44:17] Japan's deflation to inflation transition challenges [46:32] Structural adjustments in Japanese labor markets [48:03] Institutional foundations: solving problems creates persistence [54:04] Academic success vs. real-world policy impact [55:00] Closing Profile: Jamus Lim, Author of Asian Economies, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamuslim/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

Paul Harapin, Chief Revenue Officer for APAC and Japan at Stripe, shares insights on Stripe's impressive growth in a region contributing 40% of global GDP. He highlights the vital role of AI and stablecoins in revolutionizing commerce, tailored for diverse markets like Japan, China, and India. Paul discusses innovations like agentic commerce toolkits and adaptive pricing solutions that drive scalability. He also explores key trends in AI-powered payments, making a case for stablecoins as a transformative solution for emerging markets.

Feon Ang, Managing Director of LinkedIn Asia Pacific, shares her journey from publishing to leading tech, emphasizing LinkedIn’s role in empowering professionals amidst the AI revolution. She discusses the critical skills gap and the importance of online learning for job seekers. The conversation covers the rapid hiring shifts in the region, emphasizing the necessity for fluency in emerging technologies. Additionally, Feon highlights LinkedIn's initiatives to create economic opportunities and its commitment to supporting disadvantaged communities.

Doug Burger, a Technical Fellow at Microsoft Research, shares insights from his journey in elite research. He emphasizes the importance of trust and empowerment within research teams, enabling groundbreaking advancements in AI and quantum computing. The conversation covers Microsoft's expansion into Southeast Asia, collaborative innovations in healthcare, and the evolution of coding towards natural language programming. Burger also discusses the transformative impact of AI while addressing ethical considerations and the necessity for regional collaboration in driving societal benefits.

"China's approach is very pragmatic. People have been saying DeepSeek did it out of necessity. There's obviously a GPU constraint and hardware constraint in China, something they're working around. In many ways, the engineering genius and engineering innovation is what set DeepSeek apart. It challenged a global narrative around needing more GPUs and more money to get better AI. It was about throwing capital at the problem. It was a different approach because the capital ecosystem in China itself is very different. People talk about proof of concept - you have to prove your concept first in China to get funding. For many startups, they weren't getting much funding before the DeepSeek moment. To your point, no one really knew it would have a strong ROI, so only the BATs that had money and understood the technology were backing it." - Grace Shao, Founder of AI Proem Newsletter Fresh out of the studio, Grace Shao, founder of AI Proem Newsletter and former CNBC and CGTN journalist, joins us to explore the rise of generative AI in China and how it's reshaping the global technology narrative. She began the story of her career journey and started with the conversation reflecting on how the DeepSeek moment revitalized China's internet sector after years of regulatory challenges and geopolitical tensions. Grace unpacks the pragmatic Chinese approach to AI development, explaining how companies like ByteDance, Alibaba, and Tencent are leveraging their unique ecosystems and data advantages while startups embrace open-weight models to prove innovation over imitation. She discusses why the "China versus US AI arms race" narrative misses the point, the strategic reasons behind companies relocating to avoid geopolitical sensitivities, and how distribution challenges are separating winners from losers in the consumer AI space. Addressing the broader implications, Grace explores the real opportunities in robotics, vertical AI applications, and why collaboration rather than competition should define the industry's future. Closing the conversation, she shares her vision for bridging cultural understanding between East and West and what success looks like for the next generation of AI development. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Grace Shao, Founder of AI Proem [01:21] Introduction: Grace Shao from AI Proem [04:29] China's tech moves incredibly fast. [08:09] China's generative AI landscape: BATs, Startups & Research Labs [09:23] Most AI startups have financial ties with Alibaba or Tencent [10:02] Chinese AI approach more pragmatic: commercialize quickly versus philosophical AGI pursuit [12:23] Alibaba's approach to LLMs with Qwen [15:00] Tencent's WeChat integration with DeepSeek vs Tencent Yuanbao [18:03] ByteDance pivots to multimodal LLM models [21:31] DeepSeek moment revitalized China's internet sector after rough 2022-2024 period [27:28] DeepSeek and Kimi embrace open-weight models for talent and adoption [29:46] Open sourcing as strategic decision for China LLMs [33:19] US capital pullout from China forced companies like Manus overseas to Singapore [37:17] Robotics in China: Unitree Robotics, UBTech and Galbot [42:05] Chinese startups focus on vertical integration rather than competing on LLMs [43:51] Healthcare and agricultural AI applications extremely advanced in China [44:13] This isn't an arms race; framing as competition misses the point [45:49] China and US should collaborate on AI safety and regulation for future generations [49:00] Closing Profile: Grace Shao, Founder of AI Proem Newsletter: https://aiproem.substack.com/ Personal Site: https://www.proemcommunications.com/aboutgraceshao LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gmzshao/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnalyseAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"[Question: So what was the biggest misconception for most business leaders usually when it comes to operationalizing AI governance?] Based on my interactions and conversations, now suddenly they think they have to erect a whole set of new committees, that they have to have these new programs. You almost hear a sigh from the room. Like, oh, we have now this whole additional compliance cost because we have to do all these new things. The reason I see that as a bit of a misconception, because building on everything that was just said earlier, you already have compliance, you already have committees, you already have governance. It's an integration of that because otherwise guess what's gonna happen? We all know that this is the next thing around the corner that's gonna pop up, whatever it's gonna be called. Are you gonna have to set up a whole new committee just because of that? Then the next thing, another one." - David Hardoon Fresh out of the studio, David Hardoon, Global Head of AI Enablement at Standard Chartered Bank, joins us in a conversation to explore how financial institutions can adopt AI responsibly at scale. He shares his unique journey from academia to government to global banking, reflecting on his fascination with human behavior that originally drew him to artificial intelligence. David explains how his time at Singapore's Monetary Authority shaped the groundbreaking FAIR principles, emphasizing how proper AI governance actually accelerates rather than inhibits innovation. He highlights real-world implementations from autonomous cash reconciliation agents to transaction monitoring systems, showcasing how banks are transforming operations while maintaining strict regulatory compliance. Addressing the biggest misconceptions about AI governance, he emphasizes the importance of integrating AI frameworks into existing structures rather than creating entirely new bureaucracies, while advocating for use-case-based approaches that build essential trust. Closing the conversation, David shares his philosophy that AI success ultimately depends on understanding human behavior and asks the fundamental question every organization should consider: "Why are we doing this?" Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by David Hardoon #QOTD - "AI governance isn't new bureaucracy." [00:46] Introduction: David Hardoon from Standard Chartered Bank. [02:02] How David's AI journey started with human behavior curiosity. [07:26] Governance accelerates innovation, like traffic rules enable fast driving. [10:31] FAIR principles in MAS Singapore born from lunches with compliance officers. [14:23] Don't reinvent governance wheel for AI implementations. [24:17] Banks already manage risk; apply same discipline to AI. [28:40] AI adoption problem is trust, not technology. [34:21] Autonomous AI agents handle cash reconciliation with bank IDs. [36:00] AI reduces transaction monitoring false positives by 50%. [39:54] AI requires full supply chain from infrastructure to translators. [41:52] Organizations must reward intelligent failure in AI innovation. [44:47] AI hallucination is a feature, not bug for innovation. [47:35] Measure AI ROI differently for innovation versus implementation teams. [56:27] Final wisdom: People always ask "why" about AI initiatives. Profile: David Hardoon, Global Head of AI Enablement, Standard Chartered Bank Personal Site: https://davidroihardoon.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidrh/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Analys1eAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"You can try to develop self-awareness and take a beginner's mind in all things. This includes being open to feedback and truly listening, even when it might be hard to receive. I think that's been something I've really tried to practice. The other area is recognizing that just like a company or country, as humans we have many stakeholders. You may wear many hats in different ways. So as we think of the totality of your life over time, what's your portfolio of passions? How do you choose—as individuals, as society, as organizations, as humans and families with our loved ones and friends—to not just spend your time and resources, but really invest your time, resources, and spirit into areas, people, and contexts that bring you meaning and where you can build a legacy? So it's not so much advice, but more like a north star." - Sabastian V. Niles Fresh out of the studio, Sabastian Niles, President and Chief Legal Officer at Salesforce Global, joins us to explore how trust and responsibility shape the future of enterprise AI. He shares his journey from being a high-tech corporate lawyer and trusted advisor to leading AI governance at a company whose number one value is trust, reflecting on the evolution from automation to agentic AI that can reason, plan, and execute tasks alongside humans. Sabastian explains how Agentforce 3.0 enables agent-to-agent interactions and human-AI collaboration through command centers and robust guardrails. He highlights how organizations are leveraging trusted AI for personalized customer experiences, while Salesforce's Office of Ethical and Humane Use operationalizes trust through transparency, explainability, and auditability. Addressing the black box problem in AI, he emphasizes that guardrails provide confidence to move faster rather than creating barriers. Closing the conversation, Sabastian shares his vision on what great looks like for trusted agentic AI at scale. Episode Highlights [00:00] Quote of the Day by Sabastian Niles: "Portfolio of passions - invest your spirit into areas that bring meaning" [01:02] Introduction: Sabastian Niles, President and Chief Legal Officer of Salesforce Global [02:29] Sabastian's Career Journey [04:50] From Trusted Advisor to SalesForce whose number one value is trust [08:09] Salesforce's 5 core values: Trust, Customer Success, Innovation, Equality, Sustainability [10:25] Defining Agentic AI: humans with AI agents driving stakeholder success together [13:13] Trust paradigm shift: trusted approaches become an accelerant, not obstacle [17:33] Agent interactions: not just human-to-agent, but agent-to-agent-to-agent handoffs [23:35] Enterprise AI requires transparency, explainability, and auditability [28:00] Trust philosophy: "begins long before prompt, continues after output" [34:06] Office of Ethical and Humane Use operationalizes trust values [40:00] Future vision: AI helps us spend time on uniquely human work [45:17] Governance philosophy: Guardrails provide confidence to move faster [48:24] What does great look like for Salesorce for Trust & Responsibility in the Era of AI? [50:16] Closing Profile: Sabastian V. Niles, President & Chief Legal Officer, LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabastian-v-niles-b0175b2/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnalyseAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/

Patrick McGee, San Francisco correspondent for the Financial Times and author of "Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greatest Company," dives into Apple's intricate relationship with China. He discusses how Apple’s supply chain strategy inadvertently fostered China’s tech superpower status. McGee shares tales of negotiation tactics, including the ‘Apple Squeeze,’ and explores the cultural challenges Apple faces as it tries to shift its manufacturing to India. His insights reveal the broader implications for global tech and supply chains amidst evolving geopolitical tensions.

"At IBM, we really work on two emerging technologies: hybrid cloud and AI for enterprise. These two are deeply connected. Hybrid cloud for us means that regardless of where the data sits whether the compute is on-premise, off-premise, or across multiple clouds. We believe the client should have the control and flexibility to choose where to run and place their data. If you look at the facts, a very high percentage of client data is still on-premise. It hasn't moved to the cloud for obvious reasons. So, how can you scale AI if you don’t have proper access to that data? AI is all about the data. That’s why we believe in a strategy that redefines and rethinks everything. We call it the Great Technology Reset." - Hans Dekkers Fresh out of the studio, Hans Dekkers, General Manager of IBM Asia Pacific, joins us to explore how enterprise AI is reshaping business across the region. He shares his journey with IBM after business school, reflecting on the evolution of personal computers to AI today. Hans explains IBM's unique approach combining hybrid cloud infrastructure with AI for Enterprise, emphasizing how their granite models and data fabric enable businesses and governments to maintain control over their data while scaling AI capabilities. He highlights customer stories from Indonesian telecoms company to internal IBM transformations, showcasing how companies are re-engineering everything from HR to supply chains using domain-specific AI models. Addressing the challenges of AI implementation, he emphasizes the importance of foundational infrastructure and governance, while advocating for smaller, cost-effective models over GPU-heavy approaches. Closing the conversation, Hans shares his vision for IBM's growing presence in Asia as the key to enterprise AI success. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Quote of the Day by Hans Dekkers [01:00] Introduction: Hans Dekkers from IBM [05:00] Key career lesson from Hans Dekker [06:51] IBM focuses on two emerging technologies: hybrid cloud and AI for Enterprise, deeply connected [09:27] "Your data needs to remain your data" - IBM's fundamental AI principle for enterprise clients [10:00] IBM's approach: Small, nimble, cost-effective AI models that can be owned and governed by clients [13:59] "The cost of AI is still too high. It's about a hundred times too high" - IBM CEO's perspective on AI costs [14:44] Small domain-specific models example: Banking AI trained for financial analysis, not Russian poetry [18:00] IBM's internal transformation: HR, supply chain, and consulting completely re-engineered with AI [21:18] Major partnership announcement: Indonesian telecom embracing IBM's watsonx platform [22:23] AI agents demo: Multiple agents (HR, finance, legal) debating and constructing narratives [25:00] "Everyone talks about AI equals GPU" - Hans wishes clients understood that inferencing is more important [27:00] IBM's Asia Pacific vision: Reestablishing growing presence and differentiated technology approach [28:00] Closing Profile: Hans Dekkers, General Manager IBM Asia Pacific and China: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hans-a-t-dekkers/ Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnalyseAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288

"If you take a step back and ask, how has the last 10-15 years panned out? The truth of the matter is that Southeast Asia has not done as well as it should have based on the reports and projections that existed earlier. There have been fundamental flaws from a culture standpoint with respect to how the ecosystem has been shaped. I think there has been too much of a mirror of what's happening in Silicon Valley and figuring out how to replicate those concepts in Southeast Asia, whereas there should have been a better, more localized, customized, regional model to suit the culture and concepts in this region. We've mirrored our fundraising, our entire ecosystem to be too much like Silicon Valley - blitzscaling style model, power law style investing which in hindsight, maybe were not the right approaches. There's also been an over-reliance on funding." - Mohan Belani, CEO & Co-founder of E27, Partner at Orvel Ventures Fresh out of the studio, Mohan Belani, CEO and co-founder of E27 and partner at Orvel Ventures, joins us to explore his 15 years of journey shaping Southeast Asia's startup ecosystem. In the conversation, Mohan reflected on the evolution of Southeast Asia's ecosystem through different eras and offered his perspectives in how startups need to navigate the current funding winter in Southeast Asia. He also shared the spark that inspired him to set Orvel Ventures and how the investment thesis will fit better for the Southeast Asia region. Last but not least, he offered his vision what great would look like for Orvel and E27 in the next decade. Episode Highlights: [00:01:00] The Spark from Silicon Valley [00:03:00] Foundational Lessons for Entrepreneurs [00:07:00] The Origin of E27 [00:10:00] E27’s Evolution into a Regional Powerhouse [00:13:00] Navigating the Phases of Southeast Asia’s Ecosystem [00:17:00] Media as Ecosystem Infrastructure [00:20:00] Building Regionally with Roadshows [00:22:00] Hard Lessons from Regional Expansion [00:23:00] Adapting to Emerging Tech Waves [00:25:00] Misaligned Expectations & the Silicon Valley Mirror [00:28:00] The Birth of Orvel Ventures [00:33:00] The Orvel Ventures Investment Model [00:36:00] Red Flags & Green Flags in Founders [00:40:00] Rethinking Exit Pathways in SEA [00:45:00] Promising Sectors in 2024 [00:48:00] Thoughts on Governance Failures [00:52:00] The Need for Critique in SEA Media [00:54:00] Vision for E27 and Oval Ventures [00:57:00] Closing and Echelon 2025 Profile: Mohan Belani: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mohanbelani/ CEO and co-founder of E27: https://e27.co Partner, Orvel Ventures: https://orvel.vc Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format. Here are the links to watch or listen to our podcast. Analyse Asia Main Site: https://analyse.asia Analyse Asia Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kkRwzRZa4JCICr2vm0vGl Analyse Asia Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/analyse-asia-with-bernard-leong/id914868245 Analyse Asia YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnalyseAsia Analyse Asia LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/analyse-asia/ Analyse Asia X (formerly known as Twitter): https://twitter.com/analyseasia Analyse Asia Threads: https://www.threads.net/@analyseasia Sign Up for Our This Week in Asia Newsletter: https://www.analyse.asia/#/portal/signup Subscribe Newsletter on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7149559878934540288