Overtired

Christina and Jeff must be brave in Brett’s absence. They discuss a gentler kind of New Year’s resolution, the wonders of AI-assisted coding, and the dark underworld of search engine optimization. Sponsor The Daily Observations has been talking Apple news of the day, on the day, since 2014. Ripped from the virtual pages of macobserver.com, host Ken Ray brings in TMO staffers and other tech types for quick, informative, and entertaining talk centered on the stories of the day. If you follow Apple news, and you listen to podcasts… put this in your ear. Show Links A Brief History of What Time Is the Superbowl? Google results page for Dillenger Four Grapptitude Jeff: Pacer Pro Christina: Recap from Court Listener Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jeffreyguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Resolutions Without Hubris [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Jeffrey: Hello, everybody out there. I see you. I see you in your kitchen. I see you in your car. I see you walking your dog. I don’t really see you. That’s the government you’re thinking of. Um, this is Jeff Severance and this is the Overtired podcast, and I’m here with Christina Warren. Hello, Christina. [00:00:21] Christina: Hello, Jeff. Happy New Year again. How [00:00:24] Jeffrey: I thank you. I thank you. It is still a happy new Year. See, I celebrate New Year officially on my birthday, which is January 16th, [00:00:31] Christina: Yes, which I, I, I knew that this was coming up cuz I was looking at my, um, calendar and, uh, it, it populated in my calendar and I was like, oh, I gotta remember to, to, to wish a Jeff happy birthday. Um, so ha, happy, happy birthday. [00:00:45] Jeffrey: Thank you. It’s a great thing because I have usually completely bailed on my initial idea of resolutions for the year. By my birthday and my birthday allows me a chance to declare that this is really [00:01:00] the beginning of the year and, uh, and make a, a less, um, I, I make some kind of resolution with less hubris, [00:01:07] Christina: I like [00:01:07] Jeffrey: maybe Yeah. Something I can keep too. [00:01:10] Christina: Less, less, less hubris and uh, um, keep keeping things, um, uh, more honest, which I think is good cuz that’s, I I was curious. Like I, I gave up on New Year’s resolutions, like in my teens, I think probably. Um, do you ever really like, try to have them or, or is that something that, that you like. [00:01:36] Jeffrey: I, I, I do try to have them, um, but they don’t really go anywhere. I just, what I’ve come to believe is that, It’s worth it just to have the thoughts about what is it I would like to change and then to just let ’em go and maybe it’ll, maybe it’ll, you know, take care of itself over the course of the year. My, my, uh, my wife has the most amazing, [00:02:00] um, uh, resolutions. One year it was to park better [00:02:04] Christina: Oh, I love that. [00:02:05] Jeffrey: just generally to park closer to the curb. And another year it was to watch national, uh, nationally televised events like a normal American where she watched every single thing from the Golden Globes to the Super Bowl. Um, and I’m trying to, I always try to take inspiration cause I think those are just genius resolutions, but I can never find mine. [00:02:25] Christina: see. Okay. Those are awesome. So I love that actually. And so, cuz I’m like you, like I, I like to have things that I think about and I have goals. I stopped probably when I was around like 15 or so, like actually writing out like. Resolutions because I realized I’m not doing a great job keeping these and then it would just make me feel bad. And so I was like, eh, don’t do things that make you feel bad. But I do still in my mind like, oh, these are my goals for the new year and this and that. And there are things that I, that I, I have like goals from three years ago, like start a newsletter and I’m like still working on that. Um, but, uh, [00:03:00] I love, I love your wife’s cuz those seem like things that are actually actionable and that could also have some sort of impact on your life. I mean, I don’t know if like watching live events does except like then like, you know more about the, the water cooler conversations and the topical things that, you know what I mean? Like, so, but, but those are, those seem like low, low stakes things. I wonder too, you’d have to ask her about this. I would love to ask her myself, but I you, you can ask her like do, or, or even based on your observations, the fact that she has kind of these really interesting resolutions, do you think that that helps her? Achieved some of her other goals that might be bigger, broader, like the fact that she can say, my resolution is to park better. She does. She works on it. Do you think that helps maybe with follow through on maybe some of the bigger goals she wants to achieve? [00:03:49] Jeffrey: That’s a good question. I’m not sure I will say. Even a, um, sort of silly, uh, resolution, like I wanna park better, which is perfectly reasonable. I don’t, I [00:04:00] don’t mean silly, like [00:04:00] Christina: No. No. Totally. But, [00:04:01] Jeffrey: silly. It’s fun, [00:04:02] Christina: right, right. We just, we j we just mean in Sava as [00:04:04] Jeffrey: it’s whimsical, you know? Um, by the end of the year when you realize she’s still doing it, it’s like, for me, I’m always like, man, I gotta think of something. Because at the beginning I thought, well, that’s not enough, you know? But at by the end of the year I’m going, no, that actually feels like a [00:04:19] Christina: No, I [00:04:20] Jeffrey: I would’ve been glad to be there. [00:04:21] Christina: well, no, well, well this is kinda my, my, my, my thought, right? Like, is that, that is like enough, like especially if you, cuz at that point it’s no longer even a resolution. It’s like that has been a behavior change, which I think, uh, is, is even better than a resolution. Cuz I think a lot of times, , I, and, and I’m including myself in this, I’ve viewed resolutions as like things to do and like things to like seeing like, okay, I need to check this off, right? Like, I need to, I need to, to do this, be one and done. Whereas what she’s doing is actually saying, I want to change my behavior in a [00:04:52] Jeffrey: Yes. [00:04:53] Christina: I think is actually much more important, harder, and like much better. Right? Like, I think that’s [00:05:00] actually a way better way of, of viewing things, [00:05:02] Jeffrey: Well, and I think, I mean, at least as an observer, like it’s, it’s absent all the like, because I will be better if I X. Right. They’re usually not things that like are going to, are going to carry the weight of, will I be a better person? How [00:05:20] Christina: No, totally. [00:05:21] Jeffrey: You know? And I love that. [00:05:22] Christina: except by being able to successfully change your behavior. You are right. [00:05:28] Jeffrey: Yes, yes. Every time you do that, it’s data [00:05:31] Christina: It, it is at, and, and every time you do that is also, I think, and this is why I’d be curious to know, like it’s helped her. Um, and I guess resolutions is probably the wrong word, but I would be curious to know if that has helped her make behavior changes in other ways. Right? Because if you could do it for these things that seem small, right? But you can do it and really carry through, right? Like, I, and I failed at this, but I’m gonna get back on it. When I had my nails painted for GitHub universe, I didn’t bite my nails for like, the entire time that I [00:06:00] had those, those, those gel nails on. And, but, but as soon as it shipped off, I then immediately bit my nails again. And it was awful. And I was really upset with myself, but I was like, okay, well this is just, I’m going to start getting my nails done and keeping them up. And, um, I just, I, and I’d wanted to actually get them done, um, before it was, uh, chipping, but I couldn’t find, um, a, a place, uh, close by. Soon enough for, for when you know it was happening. And then by the time it happened, I was like, all right, I’ll just, then I got sick and everything, but, but I’m gonna, like, this is actually, okay. So this is one of my behavior changes. I don’t think that I will reasonably probably, at least for a long time anyway, I don’t know if I will ever be able to stop biting my nails. However, when I had the gel tips, which, you know, and, and I’ve had painted nails before, but it hadn’t really worked this well, like, I really was able to at least for a month change my behavior. And I do wonder, like this would be a thing like, okay, I might not ever be able to completely prevent myself from like, biting my nails. It’s a nervous habit. It’s something [00:07:00] I’ve been doing literally my entire life. Um, like I, before I bit my nails, I picked my nails and, um, and so I, I don’t, I don’t know if that’s ever anything that’ll go away, but I do feel like I could, you know, by going every three weeks to get my nails done like that, that could be part of it, right? Because if they’re painted, they look a certain way, then I’m not So, um, I like that. I like that. Rather than my resolution of being, I’m going to bite my nails, uh, I’m not gonna stop biting my nails like I’m going to, you know, commit to getting my nails done every so [00:07:32] Jeffrey: yeah, that’s, that sounds way more fun too. Right. Like you handle it, but you also have fun handling it. I mean, that’s like, it’s also similar to what is the thing that Judo wrote? Atomic Habits, his thing about habit stacking, but also his thing about the envi, the, the, your environment that like he, he would say, or he says, there’s not like a type of person who’s good at holding their resolutions, right? There’s a type of person who’s good at creating the environment wherein [00:08:00] they can hold their, um, resolutions. And in a way you’re doing that by just making sure you get those nails, , those nails done. And that’s, and that’s like way more fun cuz it’s not loaded with like, oh God, I don’t tried to stop biting my nails. [00:08:13] Christina: It’s like, no, I’m not even, I’m not even gonna attach that. I’m just gonna say, okay, I’m gonna get my nails done every three weeks, and maybe that will, if I do it long enough, there will be a real behavior change. Right? Like, maybe that would be the real goal. Maybe, maybe at a certain point, if I didn’t go every three weeks and, and something chip that maybe I would finally be past that point where like, I wouldn’t be doing exactly what I’m [00:08:35] Jeffrey: yeah, sure. [00:08:36] Christina: which listeners, uh, can’t see. But I’m like literally putting, I’m [00:08:39] Jeffrey: right now live. [00:08:41] Christina: I’m like, Ooh, I see a little bit of white. That’s because I, I, I bite them to the quick and I’m like, Ooh, I see a tiny bit of white. I could totally bite this now. And yeah. [00:08:51] Jeffrey: Oh man. You’re reminding me I need to put a pedicure on my birthday list. [00:08:55] Christina: Ooh. Yeah. [00:08:56] Jeffrey: had two now in the last year and a half. [00:09:00] I had never had a pedicure before, and I don’t know what toxic masculinity was keeping me from doing that, but what an amazing thing. [00:09:09] Christina: I. [00:09:09] Jeffrey: it tickles [00:09:10] Christina: Yeah, I, I, I wouldn’t mind getting that done just in terms of, uh, I guess like having like, them like clean stuff up. Um, my toes are terrible. My feet in general are terrible, which is, uh, we talked about this cuz I discovered this cuz this was a horrific discovery that I did not make that one of my friends in informed me about. But, um, uh, we talked about this on a, a addition of the, the podcast like a year and a half ago. I, I’m on Wiki feet. Um, yeah, which is exactly what it sounds like. [00:09:42] Jeffrey: Yeah. [00:09:43] Christina: And, um, it’s hilarious because [00:09:46] Jeffrey: How are you on Wiki feet? [00:09:47] Christina: somebody submitted my photos and thinks I’m notable enough. I don’t know, [00:09:51] Jeffrey: That’s amazing. [00:09:52] Christina: somebody went through all my Instagram photos and all of my like Twitter things and submitted photo, any photos of my toes. It’s bizarre [00:09:59] Jeffrey: that is? [00:10:00] Wow. [00:10:01] Christina: very disturbing. I’m not gonna lie. Like that was one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever learned. And I was not at all like, happy to learn that. But also I was, I was a little bit, I was amused because my feet are absolutely my worst feature. Like my toes overlap. Like I don’t have attractive feet. Like there’s nothing attractive about them. Like, you know, like if, if I had longer nails and painted nails, like I, I don’t have ugly hands, um, or ugly fingers like that, that’s, that’s fine. But like my feet are not attractive. Um, and, uh, so why anybody would wanna look at my feet is just, uh, [00:10:33] Jeffrey: Wiki feet, . Oh my God. That is, it’s just like what my brain is doing is, um, going through the, the de decision patterns of whoever was responsible for that. And then the action, the workflow itself, um, and then the horrible conclusion, [00:10:50] Christina: 100%. And then it always reminds me of the Great King of the Hill episode, um, where, uh, Peggy, um, uh, becomes a foot model, um, unexpected, like unknowingly, [00:11:00] um, and starts making fetish films, um, because of her giant feet, not realizing that, that, um, thinking that people like them because they’re beautiful, not realizing people get off on them because they’re terrible. Um, and, uh, yeah, um, it’s a great episode. Um, [00:11:16] Jeffrey: Okay. So we’ve, we’ve entered a total cultural corner there I, that I had forgotten existed, [00:11:23] Christina: yeah, then I, I, I, I’d forgotten existed too until you said pedicure. But you should get a pedicure for sure, cuz treat, treat, treat. Treat yourself. Treat yourself for your birthday. Treat yourself. [00:11:30] Jeffrey: wanna get myself up on Wiki feet. [00:11:32] Christina: absolutely. See, uh, listeners, uh, if, uh, Jeff posts photos of his feet, please submit. [00:11:38] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yep. That’s all [00:11:40] Christina: actually, no, no. Don’t actually do that because it, when you find that out about it’s [00:11:45] Jeffrey: Yeah. It’s not, no, that’s [00:11:47] Christina: not at all like, yeah. [00:11:51] Jeffrey: I’m just seeing if, if both the other co-hosts were also on Wiki feet, you know, maybe it takes some of the sting in the weird out, or it adds much more [00:12:00] weird. [00:12:00] Christina: Yep. [00:12:01] Jeffrey: You’d be the judge audience. [00:12:02] Christina: agree. [00:12:03] Jeffrey: All right, well, good. Check in. I’m, I’m gonna still put pedicure on my, [00:12:07] Christina: You definitely should. Yeah. [00:12:09] Jeffrey: I haven’t found the place I love yet. [00:12:11] Christina: okay. Yeah, no, that, well, that’s the thing too. Okay. So you’re gonna be looking for product here? I’m gonna be trying to find, um, a good manicurist. I’m probably gonna have to go to Bellevue, um, which is like the bougie, uh, uh, town, like over the, um, over the lake, but [00:12:25] Jeffrey: Bougie. Bougie. Yeah. All right. [00:12:29] Christina: you know, I, I, I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that I’m becoming just like a, a rich Bellevue mom, and, and I don’t like that cuz I like to live in the city and whatnot. But there’s just a lot of [00:12:37] Jeffrey: Get a minivan. [00:12:38] Christina: Oh, fuck no. [00:12:40] Jeffrey: Oh, they’re the best [00:12:41] Christina: Oh, absolutely not. Under, under [00:12:42] Jeffrey: I love. I am long past needing one cuz my boys are both teenagers and one of ’em is practically out the door. But I fucking love Minivans . Thanks for asking. [00:12:57] Podcast Swap: Mac Observer’s Daily Observations Podcast [00:12:57] PodSwap: Let’s take a little break to do a podcast swap. [00:13:00] Swap is with the Mac Observer’s Daily Observations podcast. Do you follow Apple News? Do you listen to podcasts? Well, I already know the answer to that one. Well, there’s a podcast all about Apple News that we would like you to check out. It’s the Mac Observer’s Daily Observations podcast. And when they say daily, they, they mean it for the most part Monday through Friday. That’s reasonable. Each of those days, they hit you with 20 minutes of talk. The most interesting Apple stories, they’ve been doing it since 2014. Um, and that’s like . They had the announcement of the Apple Watch. Remember the free U2 album? Nobody Wanted. Get that thing off of my computer. Uh, the announcement of Apple TV plus the transition to Apple silicon. I mean, all these things that have happened have been covered by the Mac Observers Daily Observations podcast, it’s ripped from the virtual pages of Mac observer.com host Kent Ray brings in Mac Observer staffers and other tech types for quick, informative and entertaining talk [00:14:00] centered on the apple and related stories of the day. So if you follow Apple News and you listen to podcasts, again, you’re already busted on that one. Put this in your ear, the Mac Observers Daily Observations podcast online@macobserver.com wherever you get podcasts. [00:14:17] AI-Assisted Coding [00:14:17] Jeffrey: what do you wanna talk about? [00:14:19] Christina: Uh, so, um, I guess, well, I guess that was kind of our mental health corner, [00:14:24] Jeffrey: I think that, I love the idea of that standing in for mental [00:14:27] Christina: Uh, honestly, I do too. I do too. Um, okay, so on our topic list, you have chat and G P T. And this I wanna hear about because, because you’ve been going, you’ve, uh, you said that this is like, taken over your life over the last week. And, uh, and I, I don’t wanna hear more about. [00:14:43] Jeffrey: Yeah. Okay, so here’s what, and, and just the footnote is this is not one of the existential conversations about chat g p t. Um, I like kind of had that experience in my own head initially and then wanted to kind of start trying it. And um, [00:15:00] and what I’ve been using it for, uh, for the last week is like tons of coding help basically. Um, and so like, here’s, here’s my deal, my sort of level of literacy when it comes to programming. Um, I have a comfort level with Python. I couldn’t just write you a Python script, I mean, That was 10 or 15 lines. I could write you one that was two or three. Um, I have a comfort with Bash scripting. I’ve usually, I may learn that mostly through Stack Overflow, um, and borrowing code from people that were, you know, kind enough to, to offer it to me. Um, and I generally know what a computer is capable of doing and how you talk. Right. Like, what, what can you ask a computer to do reasonably, right? I know these things, but I always need help to actually do them. And so until recently, that would be, you know, maybe I had a friend like Brett, and you know, Brett and I have worked together on a project. So maybe I’d just be like, I’d [00:16:00] call Brett. I’d be like, run the clock. You’re on the clock. I want you to help me figure out the last bit of this script. Um, or I don’t understand, uh, how this particular function works. It’s, I’m just having all this trouble. Um, and Brett would very kindly help me out. Um, if I didn’t have Brett, I have Stack Overflow. Um, but I’ve always thought of myself as someone who, if I just had someone next to me all the time who could code to my specifications, I could do so much for myself and for my workflow that I cannot otherwise do cause I’m too slow or because it’s too much of a pain in the ass to search out the answer. And so it is, it is in that sort of context that I turned to chat g p t last week first with a, with a script I needed but didn’t have. Um, it was very simple. I was actually doing some budgeting and I wanted to be able to quickly throw a number into my terminal and have that number, [00:17:00] uh, be turned into the total with sales tax. So, you know, looking at some of this 1599, I put it in, comes out and it adds it to my clipboard the whole bit, right? And so I wrote this paragraph about what I wanted it to do, ends with it putting, uh, the amount onto my clipboard so I can then paste it into, you need a budget, why a, my, my wide app software? And it did it in about five minutes. And then I was able to kind of do some finessing, add a few features, kind of do a little bit of yes, ending ala Brett Terpstra. Um, and pretty soon I had this like, you know, pretty complex script for what I’m normally able to produce. I had to run it and get errors and run the errors by chat G P T. So it’s like I still needed to know how the process works, right? And I needed to be able to read an error enough to know that like, oh, this error is something I should run by chat G P T, or this error is just a stupid thing I did and I can fix it myself. And so I started with this like sales tax [00:18:00] script. Then I took an old script I had from my journalism days, like a bash script. And it was just something that used this, there’s this amazing tool called CSV Kit. It’s created by Christopher Gross. Um, who does a lot of like news nerd programming and it’s just a suite of tools to work with CSV files or without opening an Excel file to convert it to csv, all this different stuff. And I used to always, when I got a new data set, I always did this like audit using a few of the CSV kit tools that would kind of just give me like, here’s like, um, you know, the most common values for each column. Here’s it is like everything. It was like a two or three page like audit report, right? And, um, and that was written in Bash. I did it, wrote it totally using Stack Overflow. And by the way, one of those questions per our conversation last week turned into one of that dude’s weirds videos of my Stack Overflow questions. Um, And what you do is you just, you know, you type an input file, you type an output file, and it creates a text file data audit of the, um, of the data [00:19:00] you just got. Super useful, super simple. Even today though, I can’t read that bash file. Like if I try to read it, I’m just like, I don’t know what the fuck this stuff is. I basically treated Stack overflow by chat g like chat G p T, and went like line by line [00:19:15] Christina: Right. [00:19:17] Jeffrey: And so I was looking at, I’m like, you know what, you know what this script doesn’t have and I’ve never done. It’s one of those things where if I type, you know, the name of the script and then uh, you know, uh, dash dash help, it tells me what this thing is and, and what the correct usage is. And so I was like, I don’t, I don’t really know how to do those things. So I was like, chant. How do you add a help function? So you, I said, well, it turns out you add a help function. I was like, cool, what does that look like? They gave me an example and I’m like, cool, what would it look like for this script? And I just plugged the whole script in, right? And it gave me text for a help function that is now part of my script. Um, and so that’s, that’s some of how I’ve been using it. Now the [00:20:00] other way that I’ve been using it is APIs are something where it’s like, I thousand percent understand how an API works, why it exists, what you do when you’re calling an api. I mean, I get it, like conceptually, I totally get it and I can usually make simple requests just off the documentation cuz one would hope the documentation was good enough to help you make simple requests. But what I did is I took a list of like 10 APIs that I’ve used in the past, and I just said, show me a complex, a p I call for the Airtable, a p i. Show me a complex call for the Twitter API for the, you know, I just like went down the road and I learned so much by looking at, cuz they, it’ll show me a complex, um, a complex call and then it will, it will tell me in plain language what it’s doing. And so I was able to do that with a bunch of APIs, which allowed me to kind of tighten up a few API calls I make, uh, as part of my workflow.[00:21:00] It was just this loving friend . And, and the fact that you could Yes. And that fucking thing to death. I mean, I can continue. I remember one of the things I tend to do is like, if there’s an API I want to know a lot about, I’ll say, I’ll start with, show me a complex api. I’ll say, now show me 10 features you didn’t show me in the last one. Right. And they’ll be like, now show me five features you didn’t show me in the last one. Um, and you can just keep going in it. And I, and what’s funny is I started to think it was human because. When I’m working with someone like Brett, I, there’s a point pretty early on where you just feel bad. Like, I’m sorry I’m bugging you with all these remedial fucking questions that like are a little bit beyond what I could have Googled, but not too far beyond. Right? So I found myself wanting to ask nicely, but then I was like, that’s fucked up. And so I just started being really straight, like it would’ve been as a text, if this were a text conversation, I would, I would have [00:22:00] way too little affect and everyone would wonder what I meant. But with this thing I’m just like, yeah, now show me five more. Now show me five more sucker. Come on motherfucker, show me five more. I bet you’re not done. You know, like that’s essentially what, that became my , my sort of attitude in using chat G p T And the, the one thing I regret is that I had, I had put a Firefox extension on that allows you to download your different chats and um, and as markdown files, And I had been doing that pretty faithfully, but I had built up quite a bit of questions and today, uh, they’ve hopefully temporarily, uh, made it so you could not see or interact with those previous chats because of the overload that they’re dealing with. [00:22:45] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:22:46] Jeffrey: And, uh, and I’m a little scared cuz I, I really got, I’ve gotten quite good and clean at essentially creating for myself documentation on an API or on a certain, you know, feature or whatever by asking [00:23:00] very specific questions that it allows you to build on it, you know, you can build on previous questions. And so anyway, I have just found and Unselfconsciously, I don’t care that I can now write scripts that are mostly existent because of chat G P T. That’s fine. I knew that I wanted him and I, I know how to think in that way. Uh, hold on, that’s my mom calling. [00:23:21] Christina: Sure. [00:23:22] Jeffrey: I like, I feel, I feel good about myself because I know what it is I need to ask, and that itself is, is half the work, and so I’m just, I’m putting that out to you. It’s a beautiful, beautiful new life I’m living. If they can just keep this thing online, which seems to be a struggle right now. [00:23:39] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, uh, I know some stuff about that that I can’t talk about, uh, in terms of like the, the, the, the, um, the strain that things are under. But yes, um, uh, they’ve said this publicly, so, so this isn’t me, uh, sharing anything outta school, but, uh, I, the success of this, uh, took everyone by [00:24:00] surprise because it completely, I think, surpassed everyone’s expectations. [00:24:04] Jeffrey: Because they didn’t realize they were changing society and how it functions. [00:24:08] Christina: Well, I, no, I, I, I think they did. I think that for a lot of people, and this is what Sam Altman, uh, mentioned this, and, and, uh, I think I’m stealing from him. Uh, someone else had mentioned this too, like the, the, the functionality already kind of existed, like copilot already did a lot of what you’re talking about. And in fact, copilot Labs, which is a a a Vs code extension, which has been out for a few months now, has had a, um, which basically does like experimental features, um, which, uh, has had a feature like explain for a while that’ll let you, you know, highlight a block of code and then it’ll explain it to you very much like exactly what you were using co-pilot for. And, um, you know, has, uh, and hey, GitHub is, is a thing that we announced at GitHub Universe, which will also be very similar to, to kind of this thing where you can kind of talk to, to copilot and, and have it, um, you know, give you responses and whatnot. [00:25:00] Um, so. , a lot of these things were, these models were already kind of available. Granted, uh, you know, co-pilot costs money. Um, but, you know, these things were possible. The interface was different. And, and I think that’s what has changed things with this is by making it a chatbot, which is really smart. The interface is, I think was the, was the perfect thing to kind of go mainstream in a way that I, I don’t think I, I certainly didn’t anticipate it taking, I, I knew it would be big and I knew all this stuff would be big. I’ve been really, really bullish on AI for the last couple of years, actually, largely because of G P T three and, and the things that I’ve seen. Um, you know, companies building also things like stable diffusion. Like I, I’ve, uh, I’m somebody who tends to be skeptical a lot of times, but this has been an area where I’ve absolutely not been. Um, because like you, when I’ve played around with it and I’ve, I’ve seen the results, I’ve just. Okay. This is, this is like an iPhone level type of thing, right? This is, this is the [00:25:56] Jeffrey: Yeah, yeah, [00:25:57] Christina: I, I, I’m not saying that they’re the same, but I’m just saying, [00:26:00] like, in my mind when you think of technological advancements like this, this feels ai, this, this next generation of, uh, you know, uh, natural language AI feels like an iPhone type of moment, right? Um, but I feel like chat G P T, which is still very, very primitive, which is what makes it so e exciting to me, I think is the, such a great interface for. Showing what the power of these models are, because everything else has required either you know, you to know a little bit of something, you know, be, you know, have, have a a, a code editor and an extension up or, or be using, you know, something like, like Dolly too, which, you know, they give you free credits, but it’s also, you know, takes a little bit of time. It feels, it just, it feels different. This, I think just the, the chat nature of it and, and the, uh, instantaneous nature of it and the fact that, like you said, you can get it to do so many different things is really, really impressive, uh, to the point that, yeah, you know, people are now building so many things on top of [00:27:00] it. It’ll be interesting to see what Open AI decides to do in terms of, you know, I think that they. probably will have always have some sort of free tier, but it’ll be interesting to see like how they start to rate limit stuff. Cuz you do, you’re already seeing businesses starting to basically be like, yeah, we’re building off of this. Which I think it’s fine to do the model, but it’s like the compute resources have a very real cost. Uh, that’s the thing that people don’t understand enough about, um, AI stuff is that. Uh, and one of the reasons why, uh, frankly, it’s harder to do these things locally when we talked about, um, one of the, um, the iOS apps that, that does stable diffusion locally on the iPhone last week as, uh, was my, my, uh, couple weeks ago rather, uh, was, was my pick of the week. Um, draw things, which is a great app and you can definitely, if, if you were to, you know, massage things enough, you could get some of those models and sizes that you could run locally, like on your, on your local machine. The problem is, is that a, that takes up a lot of resources and time and whatnot, and then to update it would take bandwidth, but b. So it’s just not gonna be feasible in a lot of situations. But for these things [00:28:00] to work, what makes ’em so magical is that they are doing all this stuff, you know, in the cloud and, um, and there’s, that’s a finite resource and there’s like a hard cost to that stuff. So as this stuff grows, that’s, uh, I, I think that not just, uh, the open AI stuff, but any of these services, we’ll, we’ll start to see them struggle a little bit until people can figure out, you know, how to, how to scale them. But, but it’s super exciting. But I love hearing about this and I I love that you were using these for these reasons. If you haven’t played with copilot, um, definitely [00:28:31] Jeffrey: I should get there [00:28:32] Christina: no, you sh you should do it because I think that that would be, cuz it, it, it lives in vs code, but you can also use it with JetBrains and with um, uh, uh, Neo Vem and. It’ll, it’ll do very similar things, um, to what chat, chat g p t is doing. Uh, in that case, it’s more predictive in, in terms of like if you’re, if you’re typing something, it’ll kind of auto complete for you, um, in, in some ways. But you can also have it explain things and you can even kind of like ask [00:29:00] it specifically to do stuff for you like that. So it’s got some similarities. Um, like, like I said, um, the, uh, like the explain feature in the labs, you know, you can highlight a block of code and then it’ll give you like the real, you know, language reaction is, is great. And, and hey, GitHub is, is gonna bring some of that stuff to it too. But, um, I love how you’re using chat G P T and I love, honestly, like this is, it’s, it’s funny because, um, internally, uh, you know, we never wanted to, to draw illusions to, to stack overflow cuz we wanna be respectful of them and everything. But you’re not the first person who’s drawn kind of comparisons between things that you have been finding out from. You know, uh, chat g p t and, and, and using it the same way that many of us have used Stack Overflow and things like that. Um, which, which is great, but I, I, I, I really, the fact a, it’s great for Brett not to be bother as much, but also like you’ve gotten a lot out of it and you, and you’ve learned, I mean, [00:29:58] Jeffrey: a lot. Oh, I’ve [00:30:00] learned a ton. [00:30:00] Christina: that, that’s the thing I think that enough people don’t talk about when we talk about like AI stuff, we focus on the jobs that we’ll displace. We focus on the plagiarism and the other stuff that it will do, and we, we focus on all these negatives of like all these instances where people are not going to have to learn. And there is truth to that. I’m not discounting that at all, but I also think that there’s truth and we don’t talk enough about it. Scenarios like yours where you’ve learned a ton now and you’ve been able to do things that you were not doing beforehand, right? It’s not like you were learning that stuff beforehand. It’s it, you were asking Brett, you were doing other things. It’s not like you’re really rocking it. Right. So, The net positive one. This a, is that stuff has done faster and and better, and you’ve got things that are gonna working the way you want it to, but also like you’ve learned a lot too, you know, and, and, and it have, it sounds like, have a much better comprehension of what you’ve actually done than before. You know, when you were just putting together, you know, these, these complicated batch scripts that you’re like, I know it works, but I don’t [00:31:00] know what it says. [00:31:01] Jeffrey: Yeah, in fact, I, I have to, I was like, oh, I should finally write comments for this bash script and I’ll go through each thing here in Chat J pt, so I understand it, and then I’ll see if I feel like I could put my own words to it. I mean, there, there’s certainly, like, I certainly have instances where I would, you know, I would pause before using what was there, and I’m always testing it. I mean, I’m not asking it to do something where the output is something really critical, you [00:31:24] Christina: right? Well, that’s the thing, right? Yeah. Sometimes it’ll work, sometimes it won’t. And sometimes the explanations. The only tricky thing is the explanations are so accurate sounding. They can sometimes be wrong, but I think. For most of what you’re doing. I don’t think that’s a problem at all, so, [00:31:40] Jeffrey: What I’m essentially doing is, okay, chat. G p t said I should do this. Let’s go over here and test it. No, that’s not working. Let’s go back to chat. G p T. You know, like the, the real thrill is it, it gives you code that produces an error. You give it the error and then it gets it, right? It’s like, it’s almost like that is why it’s like having someone next to you, right? Or it’s just like a person, not a, [00:32:00] not a bot. And I definitely am, am cautious of like the like white male, uh, threat of like, you sound awful, confident. This must be true [00:32:10] Christina: Well, but, but it’s been designed in a way that it is and it, it, it, it’s kind of a, it, it’s kind of fun in some ways, right? Because it does sound like just completely, like likewise, I found with most programming stuff, at least at the level that I’m doing things at, and I’m doing things at a very similar level, that you’re doing things. I think that it’s, it’s fairly reliable and again, you test things, not running things in production before, you know, things have been tested and whatnot. But there, there have been some circumstances where, where it’s been wrong, but at least from my, this is anecdotal, but from my experiences, it’s a lot more accurate in terms of like explaining code blocks and whatnot than it is, uh, in terms of like, cuz it can sound just as accurate explaining, you know, like, uh, NCHE or, or Kafka, [00:32:55] Jeffrey: Yeah. Right, right, right, right, right, right. [00:32:56] Christina: where it can also sound very, very, uh, [00:33:00] big. But it’s, it’s, um, uh, it, it’s, it’s funny, uh, Joanna Stern from, um, wall Street Journal to a great video where she used chat G P T to write, um, to try to see if she could use it to pass AP English. And so she went to an ap, an AP English class in New York City, and she used it to write an essay and she asked the, the, the teacher, she was like, , you know, would you have caught that this was an ai? And he said, no. Uh, he’s said, I gotta be honest with you, I probably wouldn’t have. Now, he did mark it down and gave her like a three, you know, which is a passing grade. Like, you know, like a, like, like, like like a B or a C. Um, and it, because he was wanting to, uh, the prompt was actually really great. It’s one that I wish I would’ve had in high school, which was comparing fair Thursday off, uh, with the metamorphosis and, and, and talking about like, existentialism in, in, um, uh, uh, uh, fair Thursday off, which I actually, again, I, I would’ve loved that in AP English. Like, that would’ve been like my dream. Cause that’s one of my favorite movies ever. And, and I, and I love it. Um, but the, the essay that the, the [00:34:00] AI wrote confused the characters of Cameron and Ferris a few times and got some other [00:34:03] Jeffrey: Mm. [00:34:05] Christina: Um, and so, and, and those are things that are, that are gonna happen, right? But like, the bulk of it, you know, like, he was like, yeah, I, I probably, I, I wouldn’t have, this wouldn’t have flagged to me that this was an ai, um, , which is, you know, concerning to a certain extent. Although I think it should also be maybe reaffirming that it’s like, okay, even though this would not have been caught by a plagiarism detector at least yet. And even though this is something that, um, like, uh, what was I gonna say? So even though obviously people could use this to cheat or whatnot, and, and the plagiarism detectors didn’t catch it, it’s still, it, it might’ve given a passing grade, but it, it still wasn’t like a good essay, right? Like, it’s not like somebody’s gonna write, like, like to me, I, I care much less about if somebody’s look, cuz if somebody’s gonna use people cheat, if they’re gonna use a tool like that to cheat, they’re gonna cheat. Right? I think I’d be much more concerned [00:35:00] if people were being able to create like Pulitzer worthy. , you know what I [00:35:03] Jeffrey: Right, right, [00:35:05] Christina: that would be much more concerning to me than, than, than if like, okay, you’re giving an essay that’s grammatically correct and that has some decent sin structure, but has factual errors and some other things, right? That, that a human being who didn’t resear like that, a kid who frankly didn’t watch the movie or read the book mistakes they might have made. Right. Which, let’s be honest, that’s a very common scenario anyway. So I some, some of the, some of some of the, uh, like furor over that I, I think is completely overblown cuz I’m like, you’re making a lot of assumptions about high schoolers that I, I remember very distinctly being a high schooler and a college student and you know, The, the shortcuts kids take, like, don’t, don’t underestimate that. You know, [00:35:50] Jeffrey: Yeah, there’s always [00:35:51] Christina: only this, this is, this is only one tool, right? This is just like the next generation of these things. This isn’t going to fundamentally make, you know, yes, it’ll make a, a [00:36:00] passing essay, but potentially, but it’s not like it’s gonna make a great essay. You know? It’s not like [00:36:04] Jeffrey: Right, right. [00:36:05] Christina: straight A’s out of this, right? [00:36:07] Jeffrey: Totally. Man. You know what it does do that’s wonderful is cut out the croft, the design, the everything of websites, um, that deliver us information. It’s all gone and reduced to a simple sort of, Um, template, and my real hope is that this destroys the mom blog recipe blogs forever because like, I, I had to roast a chicken the other day and I was like, give me a simple roast chicken recipe. I knew exactly what I was looking for, which was just olive oil, salt, and pepper. But I just needed someone to say it real quick and succinctly and man, it gave it right over to me. I didn’t have to deal with any interstitials, [00:36:52] Christina: See? Okay, so, okay, so my hope then is what this can do is that this can now be the way that, uh, the different digital assistants [00:37:00] source things like recipes. You know what I mean? So when you say, Hey, hey, Siri, hey Alexa, whatever. Like, read me a recipe. It won’t be the whole preamble that happens on those things. Like, honestly, that should be open AI’s next partnership. Just be like, yes, we will provide the, the, the, the data for these, voice assistance [00:37:17] Jeffrey: Love it. [00:37:18] Christina: things. I found this on the web for Alexa. Whatever, like, read me. Shut up Siri. Goddamn. [00:37:24] Jeffrey: What were you gonna say? [00:37:26] Talking SEO Blues [00:37:26] Christina: No, I was gonna say, uh, you’ve wanted to talk about seo. So that’s actually like, this is a good segue. [00:37:30] Jeffrey: Yeah, it sure is. Um, well, it’s funny, I, I haven’t had to deal with SEO in many years since I, I was the editor of the website for this magazine, nut Reader, and the ownership was really big on maximizing our SEO and would often send us little bits from Danny Sullivan, um, and and other giants of the field of seo [00:38:00] search engine optimization. And so the idea of course being like you use certain keywords in, in the right places and, and it will get picked up and, and maybe put in front of people, uh, uh, in Google results or other results. Um, and it got so bad in the 2000 tens in my experience. That you were not only asked to create, but you were seeing everywhere content that was so obvi, like headlines that just made no sense [00:38:28] Christina: time does the Super Bowl? [00:38:30] Jeffrey: Yeah, exactly. [00:38:31] Christina: you remember that one? That was one of the most that No, that was one of the most famous ones, if you remember that. That there was a Washington, there was a Huffington Post, um, article that I know the guy who, who did it, and he, it was, it was an unexpected thing. It was like, what time does the Super Bowl start? And it became like one of huff post’s, like biggest stories ever. And then sort of ruined and changed a whole genre of, of, of, of headline writing for, uh, and type of news writing for, for a while, but [00:38:55] Jeffrey: Yeah, and it was like, as I remember, this is what I remember were the, were the elements. There was [00:39:00] your title itself, uh, keywords that were in the title. There were keywords that were used in the first what paragraph or a couple paragraphs, and then there were keywords that were linked that had like hyperlinks over them. And then in the H T M L, you could actually put keywords. [00:39:16] Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now it’s changed a little bit. You can still do some of that, but there’s like meta. Stuff. So there are tools, like depending on what platform you’re using, like if you’re using WordPress, um, there are a number of different plugins, you know, for SEO on that. Um, some of the other platforms have their own kind of SEO tools that are built in. Some of them that do things I think kind of holistically and some that do things otherwise. But it is still one of those things where, from what I understand, you know, talking with people who deal with this stuff and whatnot, like there is a certain amount of like keyword stuffing, not just in like the, the tags and whatnot, but then also in the copy, right? So I think the, the biggest negative for SEO for me is that you can read articles and you can totally tell that they were written in such a way to rank Kylie [00:40:00] in, in Google, not, not dissimilar to the recipe blogs, right? Where they do the whole preamble because they don’t just want, you know, people to, they want people to stay on the site. And they’re also maybe trying to stop the, the, the, the Google snippets. Um, Uh, you know, so you have to read the whole life story before you can learn how to make the apple pie. Like, I don’t fucking care, just gimme the recipe. Um, but, but, uh, you know, there’s a, it changed, like there became this very specific like key word laden, like writing style where, you know, you, you see the full name of the product mentioned like six times is the reason I really like using, you know, country fresh butter is because it does this. Why Country Fresh Butter. I’m like, oh my God, I, I get it. You, you wanna rank highly [00:40:41] Jeffrey: Country fresh butter. Yeah. That’s, that’s how I think, that’s how I remember everything is just the stuffing of keywords. And so it sort of poisoned my, my sense of what SEO is because, I mean, SEO itself is fantastic, right? The idea is, I mean, the, the idea behind it is fantastic. How can we make sure the content that wouldn’t otherwise be in [00:41:00] front of you gets in front of you? It’s kind of how I thought of it. Um, and I, and I bring this up as a topic because a friend of. Danny Glamor, uh, guest a couple of episodes ago, not just friend of the show, former guest. Um, he has a music blog and he was, he was asking me about SEO and, you know, should I go over to Squarespace or, or WordPress and, and I didn’t know what to say cuz I wasn’t sure what was true anymore about seo. But it’s certainly true that it still matters. Is that right? [00:41:29] Christina: no, it definitely still matters. And, and I, I think that like, um, where you’d wanna go would sort of depend. I, I, I, I would focus primarily on like what is the most comfortable thing for him. He has more options, I think, to do better nestio with WordPress, although a lot of those plugins cost money and wanna do web sells. So it would depend on how much you would wanna invest in things. And, and I don’t know like how useful that would be. Squarespace, I think does a, a decent job. Subs does not do a great job, although they’ve gotten better. But that’s been actually [00:42:00] something that a number of people who use them, I’ve talked to, like, I think they’ve improved. Actually. Actually, I, I wanna, I wanna, uh, give that a caveat. A year ago, they did not do well. I think they’ve had to invest a lot in getting better. Probably because a lot of their writers and people were like, Hey, I’m not ranking and my blog used to, you know, rank fairly well. Um, because there, cuz there are things that, you know, you can do with your platform to, to make it rank better and worse. WordPress, the way it’s designed, you know, I think, um, because it’s so ubiquitous, it’s what, like, like 45% of the web or something, you know, has some tools that are good and then there are plugins. Like, I know there’s like, uh, Yos SEO and some other, you know, uh, tools that, that, that are free. But again, have like, you know, they, they wanna, they want you to pay. Um, I don’t know how necessary that is, but those will, will do a decent enough job of helping with that. At least walking you through it. It matters. But I, I don’t know like how much the platform he chooses specifically. Like if that’s gonna be like, uh, a [00:43:00] defining factor one way or another, like I, to me it would be a much bigger deal. Like what’s the writing platform you find more comfortable writing in to me would be a much bigger choice. [00:43:08] Jeffrey: But it seems like music is sort of a, is a good one for SEO because you’re just, you’re going to say a band’s name, you’re going to say one or two of their album’s names, and just that alone. And it’s gonna be in the headline [00:43:19] Christina: the headline. And, and if you have other things with your tags, you know, if you review or preview or this and that, like, it, it can rank pretty well. There are also things you can do in terms of like, if you can get it in like, and, and the, the news results and things like that don’t matter as much anymore because Google has changed so much of how they show things. But, um, uh, like the biggest difference, I think the biggest impact on SEO over the last decade compared to the last decade is just if you look at what the Google search results page is now versus 10 years ago, it’s incredibly different. Like if I, if I search, um, uh, give, gimme a band name, [00:43:52] Jeffrey: Oh God. Okay. Dill four. [00:43:55] Christina: Okay. So when I, now, when I search Diligent four, the first like [00:44:00] big part of the page is I see photos of the band, I see the Wikipedia page, I see their Facebook. Then I actually see a, a, an Angel fire website. Then below that I see, I, I see videos, I see a whole video block. Then I see a block of people also ask, then I see the Spotify, then I see the band camp, and, and then I’m starting to get into related searches and stuff. And so, and then on the sidebar I see songs and I see some other things. So there are, and, and because it’s a band, like they have an albums tab and, and songs and events and members and videos. So like, the biggest change I think for, for, for content creators isn’t so much even like, okay, like how, how do I stuff the keywords in rank? It’s that the, the whole way that Google is laid out. is very, very different than it was a decade ago. And so you’re now competing with a lot of stuff that Google does, which is very different than, um, you know, otherwise. But if I go to news, for instance, and this is what’s interesting, and I don’t know how [00:45:00] many people use this tag, then I see louder than war. I see the Aquarium on a sea, Brooklyn Vegan, which are all no echo. These are all music blogs, right? And, and these are all things, you know, that, that come up, you know, um, in, in, in various, I see the Mansfield News Journal. You know, I see various. [00:45:17] Jeffrey: These are all, a lot of these are the things that would have come up in a Google result, uh, [00:45:21] Christina: right, but now, now, now you’ve gotta kind of go to that tab. So those things still matter if you’re wanting to, you know, people are wanting to look for the latest news and are trained to do that. But the, the, the basic things like, you know, the official, like the main Google page at this point to get to your results, like the entire first page, like the entire first block is, you know, I see their, the stuff like, you know, goes the videos. People also ask for, they’ve got the sidebar, like you’re having to scroll quite a bit, um, before you even get to that point. So that’s, that’s, I think that that will be a much bigger challenge than I think, like what keywords you use or what platform you’re on. [00:45:58] Jeffrey: Well, and the other thing that’s up there now [00:46:00] is that little box. It’s after, so you have the Dillinger four Wikipedia page, you have their Angel fire site, [00:46:05] Christina: amazing. [00:46:06] Jeffrey: and then, and then you have people also search for, and it tells you Dillinger four merch, Dillinger four, new album. In the past, that was kind of what it was like to do keyword research, right? You’d just be like, what do people search for when they search Dillinger for, and now it’s like right in front of you, [00:46:21] Christina: Like where, where is they from? You know, what genre are they and whatnot. Right. It is interesting though, and, and, and I think this, this is interesting and, and I, I assume as the band who would have to do this, but like, it’s interesting to me that, you know, you have to basically scroll down and, and at this point too, now Google doesn’t even have like pages standard. It’s just kind of an infinite scroll. [00:46:39] Jeffrey: Interesting man. I, you know what’s funny is even though I see Google every day and have since 10 years ago, it didn’t occur to me from the, from a content creator’s perspective, how [00:46:50] Christina: Yeah. And well, it, because it’s happened subtly and then it’s like everything, like it happened suddenly then all at once, like slowly and then all at once. That, that, that’s the, the phrase. And, [00:47:00] and that’s what’s kind of happened, at least from my experiences with Google, is that I’ve noticed these changes over the years and they’ve been kind of small things. And then when I really started to kind of take stuff in, I go, oh, wow, yeah, this is a completely different search experience than what I used to have. And, and, um, and I think a worst one, to be honest, like at. [00:47:21] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. , oh, it’s messy [00:47:22] Christina: at this point, I, I appended Reddit to most of my searches because, because honestly, I can usually get better, more updated information on stuff and, and ironically, like Reddit’s search is not super great. Um, and, and so it’s, uh, but yeah, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s really interesting. The Google search is still like the thing that powers them as a company and that it is degradated, in my opinion, so much over the last decade, but especially for the last like five or six years. Um, even though, and you want, I, I always wonder about like the product [00:48:00] teams and the engineering team. Well, the product teams, engineering teams aren’t concerned with this, but the, the product teams, like if their focus has been solely like on money and on other things, uh, and not, they’re clearly not focused on the experience because if they were then, then I don’t think that they would, uh, have things, uh, as cluttered and and whatnot. But it is interesting as like you, you can see them trying to kind of. Monopolize the experience, whereas like Google used to not be that way, where now it’s almost like, you know, they really want like to monopolize the experience as much as possible. So unless you’re, you’re looking for something very specific, you know, you’re not going to be getting maybe more organic results. [00:48:43] Watching the slow death of what Twitter was [00:48:43] Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah, for sure, man. Okay. Uh, before we do gratitude, I have a Twitter question for you, um, as you are, uh, uh, a, um, dedicated Twitter user over time. You said that you had a little bit of a break, um, when you were traveling, [00:49:00] uh, but I’m curious how, for you, how post Elon Twitter is as an experience for you. Have you, have you noticed people disappearing or is it basically how it felt or what. [00:49:11] Christina: Uh, it, it, it’s worse. Um, like I haven’t had like the, you know, the more negative kind of experiences went up, but I’ve noticed a lot of my friends and people who, you don’t think about it a lot, but you’re like, oh, I haven’t seen so-and-so, and you’re like, oh, they’re on Masson now. It’s like, okay, all right, well, you know, I, I gotta go into that. And, and Macon is just, I just don’t like it. Um, I, I like what it stands for. I just, I just don’t like the interface and, and I, I find it hard to kind of, you know, deal with all the various things, but you miss out on stuff. Um, I’ve also noticed like, one of the big changes because they fired, like all the staff, like a lot of the curation and things like that, that used to happen is, uh, not really there, um, anymore. Um, I definitely, the ads are worse. Um, it’s, uh, it, and, and, and everybody’s [00:50:00] meaner. Everybody’s mad, like whether they like Ilan or not. Like, it just seems like it went from a place where, , everybody was sort of pissed off, but, but kind of hiding it now, it’s like almost feels actively antagonistic at times, which is really a shame. [00:50:16] Jeffrey: Yeah. It sucks. [00:50:17] Christina: I think what, what was my very favorite social network really just devolve in in a lot of ways. And, and, but I, I don’t, I haven’t found another home. I mean, I need to, I need to invest more time in massed on, I get that. It’s just, it’s hard for me to kind of live both places and, and you know, figuring out what instances you wanna be on. Things you see. Cuz one of my favorite things is being able to see stuff organically, which you don’t see the same way with, um, Macedon because of, because of his decentralized nature, which I get. I get it, but it just not, um, I, like sometimes I think we needed a centralized thing, but like, right. [00:50:55] Jeffrey: I was, I. Go ahead. Well, I, I was on [00:51:00] Twitter this morning and this, uh, a nurse had posted and just said, all right, let’s create a thread about all the, all the experiences we’ve had to have in hallways in our hospitals in the last year. And it was this long thread of nurses, um, chiming in, and it was incredibly illuminating. It was an instant access into a community that is very hard to have access to, especially in ways that are sort of open and comfortable and talking about their experiences. And I was like, God damn it, that’s what Twitter is, . And I don’t know how easy it will be for that to be possible on [00:51:40] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. It wouldn’t be. And that, and that, that I think is, is to me is the problem. And look, that’s sort of by design and that’s okay. But that’s also, I think, uh, to the people who are really big fans of Macedon, I think you have to concede that that is, An ultimate, you know, like that is a trade off. Like, it, it, it is a trade off. Um, and, and there’s no way [00:52:00] to get around that. But there are a lot of people who I think don’t wanna acknowledge that there’s any, a trade off with master on at all. And it’s like, no, but there is because you have to choose your instances and you, you have a difference of who can see what, and that’s great you have that privacy, but it also means [00:52:12] Jeffrey: It’s wonderful in its own [00:52:13] Christina: it, but it’s a very different experience and, and for people who use things, you know, like, like, like way a lot of people, a lot of communities have used Twitter. I I, there there isn’t a replacement and that’s a shame. Um, but yeah, I, I mean I’m still on Twitter, but I’m just, it, it’s a, a worse experience and uh, yeah. [00:52:34] Jeffrey: yeah. Yeah. I’m late. I’m late to the game saying I’m sad to see it go, but um, it does seem like it’s going. [00:52:42] Christina: Yeah. Same. [00:52:45] Jeffrey: Uh, I’ll be honest, there was a part of me, I’m not, I’m a Twitter reader quite a bit, used to tweet a lot, do not in a long time, but I was kind of like, I think everybody’s gonna come back , because like that’s, that always [00:52:56] Christina: it does, [00:52:57] Jeffrey: you know, nothing as big as [00:52:58] Christina: right? Well, I mean, people usually [00:53:00] do, but it’s, I don’t know. The only thing that bothers me is that there’s been a tonal shift. Like there’s been just a, a, a tonal shift in, in, in the rigor. And so people will, I don’t think that masson takes off again, this was always my fear was not that, like my, my biggest fear is kind of coming true, which is like, you don’t wanna see it just kind of slowly like devolve into something shittier because I think that rather than a lot of people migrating to something else, You would have people just opt out or, or go to more siloed places, go to Discords, go to, go to Reddits, go to, you know, signal groups. Um, rather than going to one platform, people are just gonna, you know, uh, dissipate. And, and that is, is a problem. Do I think a lot of people will come back? Yeah, I do, but I also think there are a lot of people who were casual users. And the casual users I don’t think are coming back. Like, at one point Ilan had said that he’d wanted to bring the celebrities back. And I was like, that shit has sailed years ago. Like, like the Trump era, they were, they were not gonna be there. Like when the Leslie Jones stuff happened, like they were kind of gone, [00:54:00] like, you know what I mean? Like, because it was, it was proving when, when things were toxic in that era. If, if I were. You know, a a if I were managing a celebrity’s career, I don’t know if I would be in right now. I certainly would not be telling them. They need to have a Twitter account. Say you need a TikTok, you need an Instagram. Um, you, you might need a YouTube channel. Uh, I, I don’t know if you need a Twitter, and if you do, it could probably be run by someone else. Right. Whereas part of the power of Twitter and, and what sustained it for a really long time was that these important, these culturally significant people, or not cult and if not culturally significant, then like people that were, were, were deemed important. You know, like, like, uh, journalists, celebrities, newsmakers, whatnot, were on it and were actually engaging as themselves. That was always the power of it. Right. That was always the [00:54:48] Jeffrey: That was amazing. Yeah. [00:54:49] Christina: that’s the thing that like Facebook never really had that, right. When they did pages, it always felt corporatized, which Twitter was always like, It is the real person. Right. But a lot of the celebrities like left [00:55:00] Twitter and, and, and you know, I Instagram really did step in for a long time and kind of took on the mantle, but now it’s even more so, and Instagram, you don’t have to have that one-on-one thing. Like you can reply to comments and you can DM people, but it’s not the same thing. You can’t repost, I mean, they’ve talked about this thing, it’s a different experience. It is much more of a one to many thing. Whereas like Twitter I think was really unique in that you could truly kind of have a back and forth with people and you would see people get addicted to it in a different way. Right? Like you would see [00:55:28] Jeffrey: Yeah. [00:55:29] Christina: really actively use Twitter in a way that you don’t actively use some of the other things. And I, I just, uh, it’s a shame to see. I mean there, it, it’s been on the decline for a while, but if, if the goal was to bring the, the famous people back, that certainly I don’t think is gonna happen. And, and if anything, I think the other casual users are, are probably gone too. And that’s, that’s to me probably the, the biggest challenge. [00:55:54] Grapptitude [00:55:54] Jeffrey: yeah, it’s a drag. All right. Well, it’s gratitude [00:55:59] Christina: is a gratitude [00:56:00] time. [00:56:02] Jeffrey: And our gratitudes, I believe, are on a theme, uh, on a theme of pacer, [00:56:07] Christina: Yes. [00:56:07] Jeffrey: the Federal Court’s document access system, uh, which is clunky as shit. It’s like built with sticks and stones and, uh, and [00:56:21] Christina: CGI. [00:56:22] Jeffrey: documents out of [00:56:23] Christina: scripts, Pearl Scripts. I’m not even joking. [00:56:25] Jeffrey: Yeah. Oh yeah. Ah, good stuff. You know, it’s a museum. They’re trying to honor our roots, the roots of the web, you know, and in that case, that’s just, that’s wonderful. Um, I interface with Pacer as a journalist and as a researcher. Um, usually going in to find a specific case back in the day, I might, uh, filter so that I could just, you know, if I was, if that was my beat on the courts or something, I would just kind of watch what came in. Um, in fact, there were, there were PACER computers at the, um, at the government center downtown, uh, [00:57:00] when I never worked for a place that could pay for Pacer. So I would go down there and you could [00:57:04] Christina: Oh, nice. Okay. Because, because I, I always like had to expense my stuff and you know, like you get like cuz because, uh, for, for listeners who don’t know, everybody gets, I think you get like $25 a quarter or something. Um, uh, we, because each search costs money and each page is 10 cents a page and. [00:57:21] Jeffrey: yep. Each [00:57:22] Christina: and, and, and there there is a document limit, I think on like how much they can charge you, but there’s not like a limit on, on, you know, like, uh, per case or anything. So you could spend, and I have spent, I’m sure you have like hundreds of dollars on, on individual cases and researchers like, it, it, it’s very expensive. Um, and, and everybody has to pay this. Like a lot of this is, there’s been a whole movement to um, try to like, make pacer free. It was even part of the, the, um, ombudsman bill or whatever. Obviously it did not go through and we knew it would not, um, because the filing fees, because cuz what STEM about it to me is it’s like, um, and actually I just logged into it for the first time. The, the website’s been [00:58:00] updated recently. It looks good. Um, [00:58:03] Jeffrey: Mm. Yeah. They have [00:58:04] Christina: but, but the, some of the individual courts are still awful. Most of them. Some, a lot of them, but some of them really bad. And not everything is on pacer. Like you have the federal courts, but then you have to go through. Similar, but unrelated systems. Like, uh, if I wanted to go to like the, the Seattle, like, uh, uh, court systems like, it, it, the whole thing is a nightmare, but Yeah. But, um, but it costs money and, you know, for, um, it, it’s also expensive for, um, lawyers. So for people who are doing, um, pro bono work or who are, um, you know, public defenders, like there’s a very real cost to getting all the documents, uh, related to a case, um, you know, for their clients. Sorry, go on [00:58:45] Jeffrey: Right. No, that’s, I mean, that’s, that’s, it’s a huge pain in the ass. And I, I have been using a service for a while, which is my gratitude called Pacer Pro, which is not related to Pacer, um, that at [00:59:00] least makes the navigation of pacer pain. Um, you’re still paying, uh, as you download things. In fact, they make it easier to spend a lot of money because they, they have a great, they have a great bulk download feature. You know, if you just like, gimme all this stuff, which is how I like to do it. Um, and they have a kind of watch your cases feature that’s really nice. I get an email every time there’s an update in certain cases I care about. Um, you know, there’s a fee to use it above and beyond Pacer itself, but it’s, um, but it’s, I mean, when I first saw Pacer Pro, I was like, oh my God, thank you Jesus. And, uh, and I love it. And so if anybody out there does, um, any kind of research using cases, uh, I, I highly recommend you go through Pacer Pro. It’s really made for, um, [00:59:48] Christina: I was gonna say, I’m [00:59:49] Jeffrey: can, you can submit [00:59:50] Christina: Yeah, no, exactly. No, I was looking at it and, and it’s smart, right? And they, and, and they, they charge, uh, it looks like $30 per seat, um, a month if you’re one to four A and it’s lower a as you go [01:00:00] up. And so I can imagine, like if I were like, cuz you’re already, cuz you have to imagine if you’re even a mid-size law firm, your pacer fees are already exorbitant in a month. Your time is worth whatever, you know, the, the, the fees would be, um, for giving you a better interface because the, they, they’ve modernized it a little bit. Um, it’s better than it used to be, but it’s still really hard to find things. And then the, the problem is, as you said, you can do the bulk download, which is good, but the problem is, Uh, least this is what I’ve run into. Um, and, and I don’t have as much experience as you do, but I’ve, I’ve spent a lot of time with Pacer over the years, and I’ve spent a lot of money on things by doing bad searches or, or, or by searching the wrong frame and whatnot, because again, it costs money to do and, and, and, and you don’t think about it like in a kind of our Google area. You’re not thinking, oh, 10 cents at a time. It’s like, no, okay. And now I’ve opened up this file and I realized that I’ve downloaded this document, and it turns out that it was just like, you know, some sort of something inconsequential to the case. Okay. Well, that, that just, you know, was, was a few dollars. And, um, [01:01:00] so having ways around that I think is probably really, really good. Um, and, um, I, I, I, I love this. Um, I’m, it, it’s in it, it’s interesting to me that there haven’t been more companies who’ve done this, but I, I think this is really smarter than I’m assuming. They’ve just probably, you know, they basically were like, Pacer’s broken. We’re just going to fix it. [01:01:21] Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they can even, you can actually have them send you a P D F, like if a, if a document has just been filed, the second [01:01:30] Christina: that I love, because I used to, I used to use, I used to use a tool called Pacer Watcher, or I think that’s what it was called. And, and it, and it stopped working at, at a certain point, but I used to do that where I used to monitor certain cases because in journalism it’s very important to oftentimes get access to those things as soon as they go up, especially if you’re competing with a lot of other people on a story, but also can just be useful just to have in general. And, and Pacer does not have a way, I think if you’re a lawyer, you, uh, if you’re a party to the case, you would get notified, but otherwise, like [01:02:00] you don’t. And so, um, you, they have to be all these third party, like, you know, alert systems that, that, that work. Um, so that’s awesome that Pacer Pro does that because that’s a, that right there would be worth the money if you’re somebody who’s following a lot of cases, especially an active case. Right? Like that, that’s definitely one of those things. Um, [01:02:20] Jeffrey: I also, I also see now that, uh, if nonprofits and academics can maybe get [01:02:25] Christina: Yeah, I just saw that I was, I was looking at that. I was like, Ooh, you should, you should reach out to them about that. Um, but so, uh, my, my pick, uh, so, so Pacer Pro is your pick. My pick. Speaking of Pacer, there is, um, a, uh, Chrome extension called Recap, which is, um, pacer spelled backwards. And, um, it is from the, um, what is it called? It’s, it’s from the, uh, freedom, uh, it, it’s from the Free Law project, or, um, I, I believe, um, [01:03:00] let me, who, who is it from? Let me the actual. [01:03:03] Jeffrey: Ouch. [01:03:04] Christina: Okay, so this is, this is from the Free Law Project, which is a 5 0 1 , um, nonprofit. And, um, it’s a service basically known as court listener. So if you go to court listener.com/recap, uh, you can go there. There’s also a, a, a Chrome extension, um, which is really, really good. And what this does is it lets you search millions of, of, um, uh, different cases by name and, and you can find, it’ll basically give you the whole. Of a case. And then what it’ll do is that it has this thing called their recap archive where if somebody has, uh, downloaded it before and has uploaded it to their service, then you can go ahead and access the document. So for a lot of bigger cases, you can have access to to everything. And so what’s nice about the, uh, the extension is that it automates the process that when you download a file from Pacer, it will automatically upload it to the, the recap archive. And so you’re kind of helping [01:04:00] everyone. So it’s one of those things where, you know, like, in my opinion, all this stuff should be free, uh, or at least be much more subsidized than it is like. I, I real, I’m not, I’m not saying that there’s not a cost to, to some of this stuff. And so if you wanna charge a quarterly one off fee of $25, like I would be fine with that. But I think that, that, the 10 cents a page stuff, I mean it’s, it’s absolutely, um, it, it’s absolutely unreal. Like how much money they’re, they’re getting out of, out of this stuff and, and it’s, uh, especially for how bad the, the software is. So, um, what’s, what’s great about the, the, um, extension is that it basically will, um, help you, um, continue to help other people get access to stuff and, um, you know, upload past things. Cuz, cuz, cuz I make a point, anytime I’m, I’m looking stuff up is cuz a lot of, at this point, most the reason I’m, um, looking at things is, uh, for like just pure. Nosiness or, or interest or like personal research. It’s not like I’m, I’m doing things for journalism, but even when I was [01:05:00] in journalism, you know, it was like, okay, if I’m going through this, then I want somebody else to be able to do this too. Uh, the, the, uh, the extension is also available, um, for Firefox and, um, so I, I think that, uh, and, and it’s on GitHub, which is great. Um, so I, I think that this is really, really good just to be able to kind of give back and use court listener, um, to, uh, get access. Obviously not every case it’s gonna be there, but more high profile cases usually are. And so, you know, search there first, like before you pay for pacer, uh, to download something like search court listener to see if they’ve got it, because in many cases they do. [01:05:40] Jeffrey: And their archive has an API for me to plug into chat. G p. [01:05:43] Christina: Oh shit, that’s about us. [01:05:48] Jeffrey: That’s [01:05:48] Christina: Yeah, I knew they had an api, but Yeah, that, I hadn’t even thought about that. That’s really awesome. Yeah, they have an api, which, which could be good for a lot of reasons. Right. So, um, anyway, so, so, uh, uh, also support the, the free [01:06:00] law project. They’re, they’re really good. [01:06:03] Jeffrey: Yes. That’s awesome. Awesome. That’s our gratitude. You know, we got carried away talking about resolutions and I just wanna mention Brett won’t be with us this week, [01:06:14] Christina: That’s right. We didn’t even, we didn’t, we didn’t, we didn’t even like, like, like mention that. Yeah. This is just a, a, a, Christina and Jeff show. Cool. [01:06:22] Jeffrey: morning drive time. Um, alright. Good to see [01:06:26] Christina: Good seeing you [01:06:27] Jeffrey: uh, when the time is appropriate. Get [01:06:30] Christina: Yes. Get some sleep. [01:06:33] Jeffrey: Thank you. [01:06:34] Outro: The.

It’s a new year! The gang talks chatGPT and what happens when we use AI to police AI. And Jeff presents a mystery involving his old Stack Overflow questions and a YouTuber who is clearly in the pocket of Big Mango Juice. Sponsors Rocket Money Say goodbye to last year’s outdated, disorganized methods of managing your money, and say hello to Rocket Money – the better way to hack your finances in 2023. Rocket Money, formerly known as Truebill, is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills —all in one place. Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions – and manage your expenses the easy way – by going to rocketmoney.com/overtired. Promo Swap: The Staying In Podcast Most weeks we do a podcast swap where we tell you about a podcast and they tell their listeners about ours. For this episode, we’re swapping with the four lads at the Staying In Podcast. Listen to these four lifelong friends talk video games, board games, movies, TV, and comics. If this sounds like your thing, we thoroughly recommend you give them a listen, and you can do so for free by subscribing to The Staying In Podcast wherever you’re listening to this, or heading to StayingInPodcast.com. Show Links Tyler built OpenAI into TextBuddy ChatGPT browser extension (https://github.com/wong2/chat-gpt-google-extension) that shows results next to google searches Humans Find AI-Generated Faces More Trustworthy Than the Real Thing Imagine a YouTube shadow world where Jeff’s very old Stack Exchange questions become content for a Christian man who thinks you should drink more juice Watch the actor from The Flash do the most awesome duet on Glee, probably ever Grapptitude Jeff: Wander for Oculus Christina: Draw Things (using Stable Diffusion) Brett: Sendy Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jeffreyguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript PHP (Pretty Hot Party) [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Christina: You are listening to Overtired. It’s 2023 and we are still here. We are still Overtired. I’m Christina Warren, joined as always by my friends, Jeff Severns Guntzel and Brett Terpstra. Boys. How are you? Happy New Year! [00:00:17] Jeffrey: Hello. [00:00:19] Brett: Happy Year. We are covered under, it’s been, there’s been freezing rain all day. There’s ice and slush everywhere it is. I tried to walk my dog and it was a slip and slide. It was awful. [00:00:30] Christina: Oh no. [00:00:31] Jeffrey: All of America is always having a storm [00:00:34] Brett: It’s true, it’s true. [00:00:36] Jeffrey: That’s crazy. Mental Health Corner [00:00:37] Brett: So, uh, how do you guys feel about, uh, a quick mental health corner? [00:00:42] Christina: I think that sounds good. [00:00:44] Brett: I can, uh, I can kick it off. I have, I have weird news [00:00:47] Christina: Okay. Tell. [00:00:49] Brett: after months of being stable. Um, or depressed. Still have never figured out exactly what that means for me, but I had one night of like crazy, couldn’t sleep, had to code, made a bunch of shit, wrote blog posts, got it all done. [00:01:08] Then a day where I immediately fell into like a depression, and then I’ve been sleeping fine ever since. It was like a one and one. One day of manic mania, one day of depression, and then it was over. It was the shortest cycle I’ve ever had as a bipolar person. [00:01:27] Jeffrey: Wow. [00:01:28] Brett: I don’t know what to make of it, and I don’t know why. [00:01:30] Um, I have learned, like, as soon as I realize I’m manic, like I don’t take, uh, stimulants, I don’t drink coffee. I, I go for walks, take showers, like do things to kind of combat man. Uh, and I did all of that, but it’s never worked that quickly. , it was weird. Like I’m usually, if I’m, if I sense I’m manic, it’s gonna be three days minimum of, of not sleeping and, and extreme productivity and, uh, weird, weird, uh, behaviors in general. [00:02:09] But this just, it. It just happened like in a blank of an eye. I was manic and then I was depressed and holy shit when I got depressed, like I lost all self-confidence. And I don’t know if you’ve experienced that. I’m not you, you may have, but like this idea that everything I say is wrong, um, this like, it makes you scared to tweet because you are convinced that who would ever want to hear what I have to. [00:02:40] Nobody cares. And like the fact that I, you know, thousands of Twitter followers didn’t matter in my head. Like everyone hated me and I was just a fuck up. And I wasn’t funny, I wasn’t smart, I wasn’t talented. And it, it got ugly for about 24 hours and that’s like the worst it’s ever been. And then it was over, and now I’m back to just being, uh, [00:03:08] Jeffrey: So it was like brief but super potent. [00:03:10] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. [00:03:13] Christina: Yeah. So, so, so you’ve had like the, the, the mania. And then do you usually ever have like the self-doubt thing, follow that or is that a, [00:03:19] Brett: Oh, always. Yeah. Yeah. Mania. Mania is always followed by depression for me. Uh, but usually I’ll be manic for three to five days, and then I’ll have like, Three days where I just get to kind of recover and sleep a little bit. And then the depression will set in for a couple weeks and, you know, couple four weeks and, and this just, it was just over a 48 hour period, rapid cycling. [00:03:48] Christina: How does L deal with that? Like when that happens? [00:03:50] Brett: This happens so fast that Elle didn’t really have time to react to it. Normally I’ll let her know that I’m manic or she’ll pick up on the signs that I’m manic and she will encourage me to take care of myself in the various ways we’ve determined, um, help. Control my mania and she will give me the leeway I need. [00:04:11] Uh, she’ll understand that maybe I’m not gonna be able to walk the dog today because I am, uh, I haven’t slept in two days and all I can, all I can do like reasonably is just sit in my office and code. And we have kind of, we’ve developed a language around that and she understands depression and she, she gives me, Accommodations for that. [00:04:35] But this happened so fast. Like by the time I realized I was manic, it was over, and she , she didn’t, she didn’t have to do anything. Um, I didn’t realize that I would still immediately go into depression. So I think I, I think my attitude towards life may have shocked her a little bit that evening because she didn’t have three days of mania to prepare for it. [00:04:58] Um, all of a sudden I was just like a fucking. But we’re both neurodivergent and, and she is. She is a great partner in that kind of thing. [00:05:08] Christina: That’s. [00:05:09] Jeffrey: Christine, you been traveling around. [00:05:11] Christina: It was really nice. It was really, really nice to spend the holidays with my parents. Um, and, uh, and, and that does a lot for, for my mental health, even when there’s other stuff going on. It’s so, it’s so weird because, um, I would never move back to Atlanta. I just wouldn’t. But, um, I, I really am glad that I’m, I’ve been able to spend so much time with, with my parents, um, over the last, um, you know, Almost two years. [00:05:35] So I don’t know. I think that, uh, I, I’ve mentioned this a number of times on the pod before and another mental health updates, but I think that the only positive in any way thing that I’ve, I’ve taken from the pandemic has been not taking for granted anymore. The fact that I thought I could always get on a plane and go see people. [00:05:54] So now when I’m with people, whether it’s it’s my family or my friends or other things, I try to. Really utilize and appreciate that time in a way that I, I, I honestly just didn’t before. [00:06:05] Jeffrey: Yeah, utilizing the time being present, right? Like someone said to me once, uh, I want to be here before I go. It was, you know, [00:06:13] and that was, I think that’s a great, extremely succinct statement about presence, [00:06:19] Christina: No, I, I think, I think you’re right. It’s weird though cuz like I don’t tweet a lot. Like people are like, oh, are you okay? You haven’t been tweeting? And I’m like, you’re right. I haven’t been, this is this weird thing where you get out of your own head and, and just. You know that I wanna be here sort of thing. [00:06:32] You know, I’ve been very present for, um, other people that I’ve been around, which is, um, important and, and good. Um, my husband is still, um, in, uh, Florida. He came, uh, we went, we saw his mom who’s not doing well, um, last week. And then, um, he came to Atlanta for a few days and then drove back to Jacksonville yesterday. [00:06:53] Uh, and he’s gonna be there until Sunday. So, um, I will be by myself this week, um, which, uh, um, after being around so many different people for the last two weeks, um, I’m not necessarily upset about, but, uh, but it’ll be weird. So, final mental health thing, my mom and I are finally going to Las Vegas to see Adele, uh, uh, January 21st. [00:07:18] And, uh, so we were, you know, booking our flights in our hotel and all that stuff. And, um, I’m, I’m excited about that cuz that’s, that’s something she’s never been to Vegas before and a lot of my friends are in Vegas this week. For c e s I would have historically been in Vegas, you [00:07:31] Brett: this week’s ces. [00:07:33] Christina: week is c e [00:07:33] Brett: I didn’t even realize it. [00:07:35] Christina: Totally because it’s, you know, it’s faded because of the pandemic and stuff. And I think also just in general, um, companies have largely kind of abandon. [00:07:44] Brett: And I don’t, I don’t work for anyone that has to be there to block about it anymore, so [00:07:49] Christina: Right, exactly. [00:07:50] Brett: my radar. [00:07:51] Christina: was gonna say mine too, but I still keep up with this stuff. But a lot of these things have just sort of like changed, I think, in like how much we care about them over the years. But, uh, but it’s gonna be really nice slash weird to be in Vegas, not for c e s, not for n a b, not for some work thing, but just to like take a person who’s never been to Vegas before, to Vegas. [00:08:10] Brett: To actually be there on leisure time. It’ll be different. [00:08:13] Christina: I don’t know if I’ve ever actually, I mean, I think I have once been to Vegas, like for leisure, [00:08:18] Brett: when, when I was 16 I went to Vegas. Uh, for fun. Every other time I’ve ever been to Vegas has been for work in some capacity or others. Same with Miami. I haven’t been to Miami for fun since I was like maybe. [00:08:34] Jeffrey: Um, well, I actually can close a, a saga. I hope it’s the close of a saga, uh, that’s played out over, um, the last few. Uh, episodes, um, when I was told by my insurance company that I could no longer have Vivance, and if I wanted to have it literally in their language, I would’ve to fail at, uh, a number of other options. [00:08:56] Brett: Such as like, I’m curious. [00:08:58] Jeffrey: Adderall, Focalin, uh, Dexedrine. Is it Dexedrine or is [00:09:01] Brett: That’s so weird. Like most insurance companies would prefer you take buy bands. That is weird. [00:09:07] Jeffrey: Vivance for me. I’ve figured out how to roll with it. You know, I tried somebody’s Adderall and I was like, this is not what I want. That was like some, your buddy’s uncle picked you up, you got to drive really fast in his car, and then he couldn’t remember where he lived and just dropped you on the side of the highway. That’s Adderall for me, Anyway, um, I, so what happened was I had to appeal that. Um, but in, in the course of waiting for the appeal to come back, we ended up switching health insurance anyhow. And so I got to get my Vivance yesterday for $14 a pill, uh, and [00:09:47] Brett: What [00:09:48] Christina: 14 times thir. So, so what is that? That’s, uh, it, it’s four 20, which is actually a great number. [00:09:53] Jeffrey: ooh, [00:09:54] Christina: I have a friend who used to text me every single day at four 20, and that was the best. And, uh, yeah. [00:10:01] Jeffrey: 14 year old and I have this bit where, you know, cuz sometimes you’ll just hear four 20 or C four 20. But anytime we hear it, whether we’re in an airport or the radio zone, we just quietly fist bump [00:10:13] Christina: I love it. [00:10:15] Jeffrey: That’s it. Um, so anyway, you know, I think, I think I’m back to having my like, regular cocktail of meds, which is, which is. [00:10:26] Christina: So going forward, even if you have to pay 3 75 a month, like will that eventually go down? Like my insurance resets every year, so I’m about to start paying my like deductible even though [00:10:35] Jeffrey: It’s all about the deductible. Yeah. [00:10:38] Christina: Got it. Okay. Okay, so, so that’s good at least. [00:10:41] Jeffrey: yes. [00:10:41] Brett: I’ll have like, I’ll have like two months where they’ll charge me a thousand dollars. [00:10:45] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:10:46] Brett: For like some of the, some of the bipolar meds I take. Um, and then after that, everything will be free for the rest of the year. [00:10:54] Christina: Yep. Sponsor: Rockey Money [00:10:55] Jeffrey: So we’ve had Rocket money as a sponsor for a little bit. Now, Brett has really revealed quite a bit about himself as he talks about the various services, uh, streaming mostly that he gets caught into, and then ultimately probably spends too much on. I think you had a robot Hallmark channel [00:11:14] Brett: Robot [00:11:15] Jeffrey: also something about robot dominatrixes. [00:11:19] Oh, matrixes. Or Matrixes, [00:11:20] Brett: Matric sees its see, [00:11:23] Christina: Matrices [00:11:24] Jeffrey: which turned out to be [00:11:25] Christina: a real thing. [00:11:25] Jeffrey: Yeah, yeah. He’s got, he has a way. Of making things manifest. Um, so I was like, I actually was like, oh, okay. I kind of like what Brett keeps saying about this thing through all the like , cat dominat and whatever else. Like, I’m gonna try rocket Money, cuz I’ve heard of it forever. It used to be called True Bill. [00:11:44] And, uh, so it’s a personal finance app, fines and cancels your unwanted subscriptions and kind of like can monitor your spending and helps to lower your bills. All that stuff, you get it. It’s that kind of service. I already have something that does some of that for me. I use yab. You need a budget. I’ve used it forever. [00:11:59] Um, I love it. Um, but it doesn’t give me feedback. On how I’m spending. It just kind of helps me to be smart about how I’m spending. And so I just like threw in my credit cards in my bank account. It’s a secure, you know, secure connection. And they just started telling me rocket money, rocket money just started telling me what was what. [00:12:19] And initially I had to do a lot of like data cleaning. Like there, there’s dirty data, right? Like they try to guess what is restaurants and what is. But they got that wrong a lot. But that’s not their fault that that happens. So I was able to kind of like clean all that up and once I did, it just like showed me so much that I hadn’t really realized about how I spent money over the last year. [00:12:43] Cause I’m just kind of like doing the old New Years. You know, but then I have this super, super bad habit of trying everything. Like if you throw a trial at me, it’s like, here, this is the free trial for service that hits you in the head with a hammer three times a day. I’d be like, well, that’s cool, as long as I don’t forget to cancel it before they charge me. [00:13:04] Um, and, and so like, I’m terrible at that. And so that was the thing I most wanted to see. And it was so cool. Like I could see, you could look at it like a calendar and it shows you what’s coming up next and it it shows you which things are recurring and all that stuff. Or I could just look at it as a list. [00:13:20] Um, and I could like go in and see how long I’ve been paying for something that I didn’t mean to be paying for ancestry.com. You know what I did with that? I did the family tree of Derek Chauvin, the cop who killed. George Floyd because I wanted to see how far back law and order and violence went. And let me tell you, it goes way the fuck back. [00:13:39] And there is not a publication in the world that would want me to write about that, but it was fascinating. And so I paid $50 a month for months on end , and [00:13:49] now that’s done. Thank you. Rocket Money . So stop throwing your money away. Like. Cancel unwanted subscriptions and maybe you do want them, but you don’t need ’em. [00:13:59] So cancel the unneeded subscriptions as well and manage your expenses the easy way by going to rocket money.com/ Overtired. That’s rocket money.com/ Overtired. And just because you’re supposed to say it three times, rocket money.com/ Overtired. Um, should we also do our podcast swap? Should we just do a [00:14:20] Brett: Let’s make it a block. Let’s make it a. Podcast Swap: Staying In [00:14:23] Jeffrey: Okay, so most weeks we do a podcast swap where we tell you about a podcast and then they tell their listeners about ours. It’s a little bit, you know, you scratch my back, I scratch yours. But we don’t really know these people. And sometimes I haven’t even heard the podcast, but for this episode, I’m like, I’m gonna listen to the podcast. [00:14:40] And so we’re swapping with the four lads. It’s staying in the Staying in podcast. I say lads because they’re British. And that’s really relaxing. Turns out, as long as the talk is slow and easy. So I just, I finished not long before, uh, we started taping here. I finished listening to their latest episode where these like four, they’re like four lifelong friends. [00:15:03] They talked about video games, board games, movies, TV and comics, and I was not sure that I was in the mood for all. But I was immediately smitten with the calm, thoughtful conversation. I mean, it was really chill, uh, . It was, it was like a, it was like as much about like meaning making as it was about like sorting the nerd cannon because they definitely sorted the nerd cannon, but it was still relaxing and still I hung on. [00:15:28] And here’s the thing that kind of like vexed me, is like, these guys are four lifelong friends. Can you imagine having a podcast with three of your lifelong friends and having it be described as relax? Like that would not be how mine went. Um, and like, listen, I’m gonna play a clip. Okay. Just listen to. [00:15:45] Staying In: It’s like someone giving you a hint to a puzzle rather than someone telling you how to do it. Yeah. It’s like just helping you connect the dots rather than just, and like you still have an element of that satisfaction. you don’t feel robbed of the experience. You get that in, um, things like, uh, the room where they’ll say, oh, right, there’s three levels of, and the first one is like, wouldn’t it be like, what do you think the, the, the vicar would say about the matchbox maker? [00:16:15] And it’s just like some weird cryptic thing. [00:16:18] Jeffrey: So if it sounds like your thing, we thoroughly recommend you. Give them a listen and you can do so for free by subscribing to the Staying in Podcast, wherever you’re listening to this HEAR podcast. Or by heading to staying in podcast.com. That’s staying in podcast.com. Just twice. [00:16:37] Brett: I’m, I’m sold. [00:16:40] Christina: I love [00:16:40] Brett: just my ocd. Staying in podcast.com. It’s gotta be three times. [00:16:48] Jeffrey: That’s staying in podcast.com. Candyman candyman candyman. Enter the Arrowverse! [00:16:54] Brett: Speaking of, speaking of nerd Cannon, um, this is a brief aside. I don’t want to get lost in it, but did you guys ever get into the arrowverse, meaning flash the arrow, uh, Von Supergirl Justice League. [00:17:12] Christina: Vaguely. I like Greg Brite because he comes from Dawson’s Creek and he made Brothers and Sisters, which was a good show, but mostly because he came from Dawson’s Creek, but uh, also Everwood f fucking amazing TV show, which was way too good for the, for the wb. Anyway, I digress. But no, I, I didn’t that much except I liked the kid who was on flash because he was, I remember when he was on Glee. [00:17:33] He was really, really good singer. Well, he was a really good singer, and and I, I did watch the musical episode of The Flash and I was like, this guy has, [00:17:40] Brett: There’s a musical episode of The [00:17:42] Christina: there is, and, [00:17:43] Brett: haven’t gotten [00:17:44] Christina: and they don’t utilize him enough, which is kind of funny because he’s got like one of the best voices. Like, he’s incredible. Anyway, go on. [00:17:52] Brett: so, so El made a spreadsheet, like we started watching Arrow and, and like, it, I, I had watched the, maybe the first three seasons of Arrow previously. But then it’d just kind of fallen off. And I had watched a couple episodes of the Flash and didn’t like the, I I didn’t get into it, but we went back and we’re like, finally, all right, we’re gonna get into the DC comic universe here and we’re gonna try this out. [00:18:20] And she made a spreadsheet and we, we’ve mapped out all of the, uh, chronological dates. Arrow Flash, Constantine Von Supergirl, et cetera, like it continues growing and there’s, when you watch the arrow in the flash in the right order, the, the plots intertwine between the two shows. And, and there are, there are references and there’s plot development in one show that affects the other show. [00:18:53] And it’s really, it’s crazy and you kind of have to take it all. As like a whole, a whole universe. Uh, the averse, it’s called, uh, it’s been, it’s been, it’s been intriguing. I’ve, I’ve been enjoying it. It’s my current, it’s our current comfort show is basically all of the averse. [00:19:12] Christina: I like it. [00:19:14] Brett: I had to torrent, I had to deterrent Constantine and Vixen because they don’t stream anywhere. [00:19:19] And Constantine was like a one season one and done kind of thing. But he shows up later. In other Arrowverse shows, if you’ve never seen Constantine, great show. Loved it. [00:19:31] Jeffrey: I didn’t see it. I didn’t see any of that stuff. None of. Verse. [00:19:35] Brett: I’ll add you to my plex. I have it [00:19:36] Jeffrey: All right, sounds. [00:19:38] Christina: I love. Chatting up the GPT [00:19:39] Brett: all right. We have, we have multiple topics. I would like to, if it’s alright with you guys, talk about chat. [00:19:44] G P T I I didn’t immediately jump on the bandwagon. Uh, it took me a while to try it. Um, I found a, a menu bar app for Mac that is, I believe it’s just called chat, g p t. Um, I’ll find the link to it, but you can just punch in your, your prompt in your menu bar and get a response. And like, the first two things I asked it is, why should I use plain text and why should I use Mark? [00:20:17] And it wrote an article that was as good or better than anything that I could have written. Uh, like I asked it for three bullet points, like gimme three reasons why I should use plain text. And it, it exactly nailed what I would say and then elaborated on it in a way that I was like, I, I couldn’t write this better. [00:20:41] So I was, I was very impressed with its ability to. Content. And then Christina through her, uh, GitHub stars linked to a chat G B T or a browser extension, and it’s available for alro and chromium browsers as well as Firefox. And it interfaces with all the major search engines from Yahoo to Bing to duck dot, go to Google, and in the sidebar, Of your search, it will give you chat GT’s response to your search query, uh, and kind of puts it all up at once, which is, it’s amazing because like people are talking about how chat G p t Open AI could be the new Google, where you ask it a question and it carefully explains the, the concept to you and you can have it write code. [00:21:41] The other thing that I just found out about it right before we sat down to record, uh, Tyler Hall added OpenAI slash jet G p t extensions to text buddy. So from within text Buddy, you can ask it. You can ask it either to write prose or you can ask it for. You can say and, and his, his example video, he’s like, how do I write a JavaScript function that finds the, uh, highest element and array, I think? [00:22:14] Um, and, and it basically like writes out the code in JavaScript to do that. And I have tested its code generation capabilities, uh, with Ruby and Python and JavaScript, and it has not led me. I’ve not asked it to do anything like, like, uh, stack Overflow Band Chat, G p t responses because they sound right but often [00:22:43] Christina: Right. Exactly. That, that, that’s the freakiest thing to me about it. I, I, I’ve mentioned this, um, when I’ve talked about it before and I’ve used, um, you know, uh, G P T three, um, implementations a lot. But, uh, Chad, g p t especially, I think even more than Codex and some of the other ones, like, it’s so conversational, but it sounds so authoritative. It’s like you, even if it’s something you know intimately, you’re kind of like, huh, well maybe this is true. It, it’s, it’s funny just how [00:23:13] Jeffrey: like white men learned this trick a long time ago. [00:23:17] Christina: totally. [00:23:18] Brett: There’s a, there’s an open AI in, in the a p i, there’s a setting, I think it’s called temperature, where you can set it to zero and it will only tell you factual things, but you add any, anything between zero and one point 0.4, for example. Could give you mostly factual, like mostly guaranteed to be true. [00:23:42] But we’re gonna, we’re gonna take some creative liberty. Uh, we’re going to, we’re gonna give you creative responses that may or may not be factual, but we’re gonna say them in an authoritative tone. [00:23:55] Jeffrey: Right, right. [00:23:56] Brett: could be very detrimental, like I think immediately Stack overflow saw how detrimental this could. [00:24:05] Like Stack Overflow has built a huge compendium of authoritative answers to coding [00:24:12] Jeffrey: Yep. [00:24:13] Brett: Uh, and to have that flooded with something that sounds real, but hasn’t been tested. Uh, I, there’s, there’s huge harm in [00:24:22] Christina: Oh yeah. No, I think they absolutely made the right decision, right? Like I am of the opinion that a lot of the people who freak out over AI stuff are doing so at their own peril because it is inevitable. [00:24:33] Jeffrey: it’s here. [00:24:34] Christina: And I think that chat, g p t is, uh, a great example of that because even though there’s, it’s, it’s a novelty, it’s kind of a toy, and it was. [00:24:42] You know, not really doing anything necessarily new than what already existed, the user interface. I think, uh, I’m stealing this from someone and I wish that I could properly credit them for this. Um, I, I think kind of, uh, distillation because I’ve been trying to think in my own head like, why did this one take off so much more than some of the previous? [00:25:03] Use cases of of G P T three. And, and I think that just the, the user interface of just, you know, simple, you know, kind of prompt to kind of do it and to get the results. The fact that there wasn’t a signup, that that flow I thing really can’t be, uh, undermined. But, um, and, and I, and this stuff is inevitable. [00:25:18] So for whatever qualms people will have, and I’m not saying that they aren’t valid because of course they, and we should have discussions, but people wanting to pretend like, like, I’m not really down for the whole, like, this is all evil and we shouldn’t use any of this stuff cuz. Look, this ship has sailed. [00:25:32] This is gonna be here. Like, regardless of how [00:25:34] Jeffrey: has sailed. [00:25:35] Christina: gonna be [00:25:35] a [00:25:35] Brett: is the [00:25:36] Christina: This is absolutely the future And, and if, and you, you ignore it at your own peril, in my opinion, especially for people who are afraid about like what it might do to their jobs or other things. You ignore this at your own peril. [00:25:46] You need to embrace it. Like, and, and, and I would say that that’s the case for anybody who sees themselves about to get disrupted. You need to embrace the disruption and lean into it instead of fighting against it. Because fighting against it has never, ever worked in human history and it won’t work here. [00:25:59] That. Stack overflow, I think absolutely did the right thing by banning it because I don’t, I think that there, those are different issues, right? Like you can still appreciate, um, where this is going. And also say, right now we are not in a position to accept these sorts of generated results because it is, you know, an anthem and an actually harmful to our overall experience. [00:26:21] Even though in many cases people could probably, you know, craft maybe even an accurate response. [00:26:29] Brett: Yeah. What scares me is so out of curiosity, after seeing the kind of content it could write, because basically when I gave it, you know, some plain text markdown prompts, it literally wrote an article I would publish on my blog. So, The first thing I did was go check out those scammy swarmy SEO channels on YouTube to see what they were saying about chat G p D. [00:26:55] And they were all [00:26:56] Christina: Of [00:26:56] Brett: They’re like, you can produce, you can produce authoritative content in mass for your blog. And you could have, you could have a new article every hour that is original, uh, intelligent funding content, and you can dominate search. Results, [00:27:14] Jeffrey: just like that, we’re right back to 2006. Yeah. [00:27:19] Brett: exactly like it is. It’s terrifying to think that, that the web, the web of knowledge that we have built could be overrun by artificial intelligence. [00:27:31] Like that’s not, to me, that’s not a bright future. Um, like, I’m really impressed, like this thing could pass the touring test. Like the touring test is like in the rear view me mirror at this point because this can absolutely, this can absolutely convince any human that it is another human, um, writing these responses. [00:27:52] And I just like, it’s, it’s so, there’s gonna come a point right now. Chat, g p t is freely available for testing. [00:28:02] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:28:03] Brett: There will absolutely come a point where it becomes a paid service, but you know, you know who’s gonna gladly pay for it is SEO [00:28:11] Christina: 100%. But a and you’re not wrong. And, and this is where I think that it’ll actually be interesting. I kind of am interested to see AI obviously be different models, but I’m actually looking forward to seeing AI be used to weed out these ai. Generated responses and things that aren’t good because you know that, that Google or, or, or other search engine people are going to have to do that. [00:28:31] And look, your people are right absolutely. That you are right. You can make the authoritative sounding crap and, and we’re gonna be back to click farms. But that whole model didn’t really die the way that that we thought it did. What happened is, is that people who are paid since a post did it, or even worse, there were oftentimes. [00:28:51] And it’s been AI driven. It’s had to be because the, the, the stuff has been wrong in ways that just wouldn’t happen naturally, even with somebody who’s speaking a foreign language. Um, where I know that stuff has been scraped and then has been rewritten using some more primitive AI things like this has been a thing for years. [00:29:07] Like, and, and, and, and it’s already dominated a lot of search results stuff. So I don’t know. It’s interesting. It, it’ll also, it would be, to me, it would actually be interesting if this had to then lead to us rethinking how we do search. Because I think that the, the, um, page rank model worked really well for a long time. [00:29:24] And, and Google has obviously relied less on that, uh, over the years. And um, you know, it has been more than 20 years since that model I think started. And it probably is time for that to be kind of reevaluated in terms of. You know, showcasing what is actually relevant responses to what you’re looking for. [00:29:43] Like, this is not common to me. A lot of people have done this, but I, I add Reddit to almost all of my Google results. At this point, because I find that, that Reddit is actually a better search engine than Google for a lot of things. But going to reddit.com and searching is not a great experience. So it’s, it’s weird that you have to search Reddit to get, like, you have to add Reddit to Google, to search Reddit. [00:30:06] Uh, but that is how I can often find like the best and most helpful results for things. Anyway, that’s an aside. [00:30:12] Brett: One of the things and, and, and I have another article I’ll drop in the, uh, show notes about how studies have shown that people buy a slim margin, but people find. AI generated faces more trustworthy than, than real human faces. Um, and this goes into deep fakes, but the way that these, uh, these AI generated faces were created was using AI to train ai. [00:30:45] So you have one AI that is producing responses or faces or, or deep fakes, and then another ai. Judging, you know, and saying This is believable, or this isn’t. And the two can go back and forth to generate something that is more, believe, more human than human, uh, to put it in Blade Runner terms and like AI’s training ai, like this is the future. [00:31:16] This is already like, everything’s scary about. It is within years of happening and everything beneficial about AI is already happening. [00:31:27] Jeffrey: Mm, mm-hmm. . Uh, when I, I think the, the first deep dive I did into chat g p t was by listening just to the daily podcast and it had a great episode on it. And I remember thinking, cause I hadn’t played with it yet, I was like, That’s it. Fuck it. I’m done. I, I have a workshop. I have a workshop out back with a bunch of old tools. I, I can make all kinds of things with ’em. I’m like, I’m just gonna go live in my fucking garage until this blows over. Uh, which obviously it won’t. But then I was like, wait, you can write sequel statements for me. [00:31:59] Christina: Yeah, exactly. [00:32:01] Jeffrey: like, hi. [00:32:02] Brett: Well, and for simple. For simple, like what’s the algorithm to. Find the longest, uh, longest element in an array of strings. Like it will nail that. It’ll give you an answer faster than you would find it on Stack [00:32:18] Christina: 100%. Like this is not a plug, I promise, but the GitHub co-pilot, which obviously I work at GitHub and, and, uh, GitHub co-pilot is done in conjunction with, um, uh, open AI and, uh, is powered by, uh, chat or by, um, uh, uh, G P T three and has some similar responses to things you would see. Does some similar things as what chat G P T has. [00:32:38] Um, one of the things we, we showed off at, uh, like. I don’t even think beta is a, a appropriate kind of a preview, kind of an experiment that we’re working on to add to copilot is this thing called hey GitHub, where you can actually use copilot with your voice. But one of the ways I use copilot in addition to kind of like an auto-complete on steroids, is to do exactly that sort of thing. [00:32:59] Like, wait, how do I write this statement in, in this? Or, or what is boiler plate code for this? You know, like, like how can I write boiler flick code to like use Twitter’s API in Python, right? And. It’ll give it to me and, and it’s gonna be, in most cases, I can run it. And it’s, it’s, it’s gonna work, you know, and, and a lot of cases. [00:33:18] And it’s, it’s in it’s re and that’s remarkably, like, that’s all, that’s all I’ve ever really wanted in life, you know? [00:33:25] Jeffrey: Yeah, totally. [00:33:28] Brett: that actually works for computers. [00:33:30] Jeffrey: exactly. Now we, we gave a lot of Stack Overflow examples, so I discovered something super crazy when I was searching for I, so this is the 20th anniversary of the Iraq War. It will be in March. Uh, and I was very involved both in as a, as a, um, organizer trying to stop the war. Um, I went back and forth to Iraq a lot for previous Steven that, um, and I was on M S N B C. [00:34:04] And I’m like, I’m just this little kid who can’t sit still in his seat, but is talking about, you know, what’s going on on Capitol Hill vis-a-vis the Iraq War, the Looming Iraq war. And I was looking for that on YouTube, couldn’t find it, but I did find something super fucking weird. And that was, there’s some dude out there. [00:34:25] I said, I, I get all of these results and there are five videos made where the thumbnail is one of my questions on Stack overflow old questions. I mean, like, I’m talking a decade ago, right? I mean, what the fuck’s going on here? And I’m credited inside and I, I open it up and I play the video and there’s a man talking about drinking juice. [00:34:47] He’s outside, he’s holding his phone and, and he’s saying like, I, I would love it if you would subscribe. It would be great for me and my family. And, and then he, and then he says something about drinking juice. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll raw some tape. [00:34:59] Roel Van de Paar: Drink more apple juice and eat more mango. Hmm. This video will quickly show you a technical question as well as possible answers. I hope you subscribe and like that will really help me and my family. And why should we drink more apple juice and eat more mangoes? Well, because I noticed they’re good for your brain. [00:35:15] God bless. Bye. [00:35:17] Jeffrey: He says something about drinking juice, and then up comes my question. With an answer. It’s a minute and 17 seconds long. It’s been waiting for me. The only people that have looked at these are the other two hosts on this show. And let me [00:35:32] just tell you [00:35:33] Brett: views. Four views [00:35:35] Jeffrey: four views and, and this is a year ago. Okay, so, and you know these are good questions. [00:35:39] So you guys, what is this? [00:35:41] Brett: This is a weird. Like it can’t be working for him. He does not have the views or the [00:35:47] Jeffrey: He has 109,000 subscribers. [00:35:49] Doesn’t. [00:35:50] Christina: wait. [00:35:51] Brett: my God. He does. [00:35:52] Christina: Wow. So, so. [00:35:54] Brett: Who’s falling for this? [00:35:56] Jeffrey: so let’s see what else we got here. [00:35:58] Brett: Yeah. What, what else does he have on his channel that would justify? [00:36:02] Christina: Did he buy these followers like, or these subscribers [00:36:05] Jeffrey: Right? [00:36:06] He’s got a [00:36:07] Brett: his whole channel is, his whole channel is just stack exchange headlines, and then he literally posts a screenshot of the answer, holds it there for 30 seconds, and then moves on [00:36:20] Jeffrey: Wait, I’m gonna [00:36:21] Brett: and asks you to subscribe to his channel. [00:36:23] Jeffrey: Okay? I’m gonna search you guys in there. Roll Van. Christina Warren. Huh? Sorry guys. [00:36:33] Christina: Yeah, I don’t [00:36:34] think, well, I I don’t [00:36:35] Brett: never ask a question on Sac [00:36:37] Christina: I [00:36:37] Jeffrey: I get it. I get [00:36:38] Christina: was gonna [00:36:39] Jeffrey: You guys don’t have to ask Stack [00:36:41] Christina: no, I just, I just haven’t wanted to, to open myself to these things. But I, I did like look for his popular videos and it looks like he has a few that are like, remove enterprise enrollment from Chrome OS three solutions. [00:36:54] This has 138,000 views and he has, you know, apple problem creating new Apple ID account cannot be created at the time. That’s 57 k. [00:37:03] Brett: So he’s just, he’s siphoning Stack Exchange search results, [00:37:08] Jeffrey: Which in another era would’ve been genius. Right. But, and also I wanna say this one speaks to everybody. Stop tic-tac-toe from overriding moves in sea. Mm. I’ve been there. I have been down that dark hole. [00:37:21] Brett: Oh, what the fuck? [00:37:23] Jeffrey: So anyway, [00:37:24] Christina: has a Patreon, which, okay. [00:37:26] Brett: He’s also very Christian like. There’s always references to blessing you and praise to God, and [00:37:34] Christina: He has [00:37:35] Brett: it’s a weirdly religious take on Stack Overflow. [00:37:39] Christina: he has 28,938,108 views, so, which is decent. I’m still thinking these have to be mostly bought subscribers because, [00:37:51] Brett: Yeah, they have to be cuz nobody would watch one of these and go, oh man, I wanna, I wanna see what else this guy has to [00:37:59] Jeffrey: Get your hand outta my pocket. Raul Van Depar. [00:38:03] Brett: you should sue, you should sue for his one Patreon subscriber. [00:38:07] Jeffrey: maybe I will see if I can, I bet I can write up a legal finding in chat. G P [00:38:12] Christina: Oh, [00:38:12] Jeffrey: or a legal I could [00:38:13] Christina: See, that would be fantastic. [00:38:18] Brett: Right about cease desist Grapptitude [00:38:20] Jeffrey: Right . All right, let’s, should we grab the tune? [00:38:24] Brett: Yeah, [00:38:24] Christina: Yeah, let’s go for it. [00:38:25] Brett: Who first? [00:38:26] Jeffrey: I don’t mind going first. [00:38:27] Brett: Go for it. [00:38:28] Jeffrey: So my kids bought a, uh, Oculus a while back and the only thing, as I’ve reported, I think in the past, the only thing I’ve done in it is watched Richard Pryor on Netflix. Um, and. I felt like I should start using it cuz oh my God, there’s this really cool thing in the house. [00:38:44] So I got the app Wander and . In typical me fashion, I still barely did anything with it, but it blew my mind this time. What I did, uh, wander allows you to, to basically wander through the world via Google Street View. But here’s the crazy thing. I was able to stand in the middle of the street in front of my house. [00:39:05] I. I was in the basement, but you know, I was wandering. Um, and look at my house and then you can actually say, show me. 2007, show me 2009, show me 2015. And this house prior to us owning it had been a rental for like 20 years. And it was, it was inhabited exclusively by rock bands. And so you can imagine that it, it was in a certain state, uh, after 20 years of, of rock band inhabitants, and we could watch it become our house and it was amazing. [00:39:41] Christina: That’s awesome. [00:39:42] Brett: called, it’s called Wander. [00:39:44] Jeffrey: called Wonder. It’s super cool. I mean, [00:39:47] of [00:39:47] Brett: an [00:39:48] Christina: I do [00:39:48] Brett: and I do, I feel like I do not. I do not use it. [00:39:51] Christina: I definitely don’t. [00:39:53] Jeffrey: can we, can we meet for an episode in our Oculus, in our oculi? [00:39:58] Christina: I’m, you [00:39:58] Jeffrey: I would love that. [00:40:00] Christina: know what I’ve like, I’ve, I’ve made fun of the entire metaverse like thing and I will continue to do that. Having said that, I genuinely really want us to do an episode of Overtired in our Oculus. [00:40:12] Brett: Let’s figure that out. [00:40:13] Christina: Yeah, we’ll figure that out. Okay. It listeners, if you have ideas of how to do that, let us know. [00:40:19] We will research it, but, but if anybody else knows, like that’s obviously. [00:40:23] Brett: Yeah. [00:40:24] Jeffrey: I was, I was playing the game super hot, which is like a gun, it’s a shooter game, but nothing happens unless you’re moving, like time stops when you stop moving, which is super cool. But I got so lost in it that I was trying to avoid being shot and there was like a bench and I, I tried to lean my hand on the bench and I fell over. [00:40:45] Brett: I know [00:40:45] Jeffrey: And then in the very next game I tried to, I tried to go under the bench and I actually ended up like under a shelf and I was like, this is not okay for me. This is not okay. [00:40:56] Brett: The, the one Oculus app that I think everyone needs to know about is skybox. You can serve up any video from your Mac, I, I assume it works for PC as well. Um, and sure you, I mean, you can do with this what you will, you can do all kinds of crazy expert stuff with it. But, uh, if you have movie files that you wanna, like as if you’re watching on a huge. [00:41:23] Like movie [00:41:24] Jeffrey: Oh cool. [00:41:25] Brett: your Oculus? It is, it is. It’s fantastic. My rabbi created a chat group, like I have this chat group on my phone of all friends of my rabbi who own Oculi [00:41:39] Jeffrey: Oh, get me on that list. [00:41:41] Brett: and [00:41:41] Jeffrey: of your Rabbi [00:41:42] Brett: there’s always somebody who wants to play ping pong or golf [00:41:45] Jeffrey: so, uh, [00:41:47] Christina: That’s awesome. [00:41:48] Brett: Christina, what do you wanna. [00:41:50] Christina: Okay, so since we’re talking about chat, G P T, I think that it is time to talk about stable diffusion again, because I think that that is awesome. And I found, um, this app, it’s available for iOS. So there are a couple of different stable diffusion apps for Mac. Now there is, um, diffusion B, which works on both intel and in one. [00:42:12] Apple did actually release their own stable diffusion. Um, like fork or whatever. Uh, uh, you know, I think for people to use with against their GPUs, I don’t know if apples is in, is apple, silicon, or, um, Intel. Um, uh, as well. I, I think it’s only apple, silicon, but I don’t know. Uh, ciran, uh, cis, I can’t say his name. [00:42:33] The guy who makes a million things on, um, GitHub, um, he’s created a, an app, um, uh, for, for, um, Stale diffusion for Mac, that is native, built in Swift, but his is, um, uh, apple silicone only. But the one I wanna actually talk about is free. It’s called Draw Things. And it is an iOS app that, um, does, um, AI generation, um, for you in your pocket. [00:43:00] And it’s, uh, it’s free and it runs locally on your phone or on your iPad. So it’s actually really, really, Um, and, and it’s surprisingly, um, like, like the model sizes are big. Like some of them are like, you know, a couple gigs in size or whatever, but, um, and, and it, you know, but it’s, it’s actually surprisingly powerful and, and works really well. [00:43:22] So this was one that, um, that I, I found, um, last week. I think it’s been out for about a month. But, uh, this is an iOS app. Um, I’m assuming you can also run it on like, like your. [00:43:34] Brett: It has a Mac app store. [00:43:36] Christina: Anyway, if you’re somebody who’s been wanting to maybe get into some of the, the art stuff or wanting to look at it, um, the fact that you can even do this on iOS is unreal to me. [00:43:44] And, um, I think that this is really cool. So draw things is, is my pick. [00:43:49] Jeffrey: And to emphasize, to emphasize what you already said, that it runs locally and that it does not collect your data. [00:43:55] Christina: 100%, which I think is actually really important because like Lin, uh, and there have been some other ones that people have been using to, like, they’ve been uploading their photos and then thinking, oh, we delete them and whatnot. And I’m sure they do. I’m also equally sure that they use all the, the information and the results that they generate for you in their own models and their own stuff. [00:44:12] And there’s nothing wrong with that inherently, but, You know, you should, you should be aware of those things. So if you don’t want, you know, um, your prompts and your data and that stuff, you know, generated or stored elsewhere, doing it locally I think is really cool. So, big fan. [00:44:27] Jeffrey: Yeah. [00:44:28] Brett: Awesome. All right, so I used to use MailChimp for managing email lists, but my email list got up to over 10,000. Subscribers. And once you hit a certain point with MailChimp, it gets very expensive to send out emails to everybody, like a hundred bucks to send something to my mailing list. And so I discovered Cindy, I think I discovered, I think the guy who creates agenda turned me onto it. [00:45:01] I can’t remember exactly how I found it. Um, maybe it was, yeah, I, I don’t remember A lot of indie developers used. And you pay like $60 I think, for a license. And, uh, you install it on your own server. It’s p h p and it uses Amazon a e s to, uh, to send your emails. And I have, I just sent out 17,000 emails and paid, I think maybe $5 in service fees to Amazon. [00:45:37] Uh, and that would’ve cost me over a hundred dollars to do with MailChimp. And it has all of your basic mail, email list management, and it shows you, uh, bounce rates and sub unsubscribes and open rates. And it is. For 60 bucks, uh, you, it pays for itself the first time you send out an email to out, to a list of any decent size. [00:46:04] And I think everybody, uh, software developers, people running any kind of independent email list should absolutely know about Sunday. [00:46:14] Christina: awesome. I, I’m, I’m really glad you mentioned this because we talked about this you and I, uh, a couple years ago, I think, when you first started using it, because we were both looking at maybe some newsletter alternative things, and I’m really glad to hear that this has continued to work well for you. [00:46:27] I did have a question for you, which is, and I don’t know how Cindy helps with this, or, or if it does, but how do you, I guess, make sure that your mails aren’t going to people’s spam, uh, folders Or, or, or do you. [00:46:40] Brett: I don’t do anything special. Um, I don’t know what, like, I, I, honestly, it’s black magic to me. What, uh, what gets spammed by Google, uh, by Gmail and what doesn’t? Um, I do know that my open rate tends to be about 60%. When I send to a list of about 10,000 or more, I get an open rate of 60% and an unsubscribed rate, usually of like one. [00:47:10] So the emails are, for the most part, getting through and, uh, and, and having in the click rate is generally very good. Uh, if 5,000 emails are open, I’ll usually get, you know, 3000 clicks, which is kind of insane. Uh, click through for, for the kind of emails I send out. I don’t know, I don’t know if Cindy does anything in particular. [00:47:39] But like I said, it’s, it’s black magic to me, so I don’t even know what the process would be to make sure you don’t get spammed [00:47:45] Christina: Yeah, that, that makes sense. Um, but uh, yeah, I just wanted to ask about that, but no, Cindy, I think this is great and honestly it reminds me of that era of app when like you had the self-hosted sort of things. Like, um, who is the guy who made, uh, mint? Sean Inman. Yeah. Because, because all of his stuff, he had a URL shortener, uh, a Fever, which was his RSS client, which was amazing. [00:48:08] Um, like I love that kind of era of self-hosting stuff, so, uh, kudos to, to the Cindy guy. I can’t remember if I’ve bought it or not, but I, I think I definitely am going to, uh, do this cuz I would like to do the newsletter thing, but I, I have hesitancy about using sub even though I know that they would be the best platform to use. [00:48:26] I have hesitancy. I don’t, I don’t care about any of the, the ideological stuff. I, I don’t, but, um, But, but for me it’s more like, I don’t know if this is gonna be around in the future or do I want anybody else owning my platform? [00:48:40] Brett: Yeah, I’ve gotten really into subs lately. I follow like a bunch of people on subs now and, and I do Patreon for several of them. Um, like, it’s, it’s, it’s a great source and I’m tempted to write there myself, but I really, I love, I love ODing, my stuff. [00:48:58] Christina: was gonna say, I’m, I’m in the same thing cuz I, I actually, like, I was having to do expenses at the end of the year. For, um, um, like stuff that I count as learning and development, which meant that I got to write off a lot of my cks and um, and actually subscribe to a couple of more. And because, hey, honestly, at this point, I think like newsletters are a really great learning and development tool to [00:49:19] be completely honest with you. [00:49:20] Um, and, um, and, and, and I, I really like paying people for their work, but, and I, and I think sub is a great platform, but yeah, I had that like Catch 22 where I’m. I kind of wanna own my own thing because this doesn’t feel right to, like, even though I have the list, I don’t love that all the, if I were to charge for something that all of that is going through. [00:49:41] So there’s just, I have, there are questions that I have. Let’s, let’s, let’s put it that way. [00:49:46] Brett: So I have bought Cindy three times now because you can buy it for one domain and then add as many brands to it as you want. But then the signup and the, the, uh, web versions of all your newsletters are on the primary domain. And for the purpose, like if I wanna, brett Terpstra dot com email list, I don’t want them to have to go to envy ultra.com. [00:50:14] And, and wonder why, but for 60 bucks, I mean, compared to the cost of doing the same thing with MailChimp, like I’ll just, I, I bought it for marked, I bought it for brett Terpstra dot com and I bought it for NB Ultra, and I just run it independently on each of those domains. So everyone has an SSL encrypted signup form from the right domain. [00:50:39] That makes sense. And it leads to no. Questions of hanky, hanky [00:50:44] Jeffrey: Oh, oh. [00:50:49] php. Pretty hot party. [00:50:51] Brett: right? [00:50:52] Jeffrey: All right, you guys. It’s good to have the band together, [00:50:54] Christina: I love it. I I, I missed you too. [00:50:56] Jeffrey: you too. [00:50:56] Christina: fun. Glad to be back. Feels like the, feels like the, the new year is, is starting off right. Hope it, hope it’s good for everyone. [00:51:03] Brett: Don’t jinx it, [00:51:04] Christina: I’m trying not to. [00:51:08] Jeffrey: Why do we always fight at the end? [00:51:10] Christina: I love you guys [00:51:11] Brett: Get some sleep you guys. [00:51:12] Jeffrey: Get some [00:51:13] Christina: and get some sleep. [00:51:14] Outro: The.

Friend of the show Danny Glamour joins us to talk health scares, Minneapolis hardcore, and app developers that know when to leave well enough alone. Sponsors The next time you’re feeling down on yourself, check out Self Esteem Party and let Alana Johnston cheer you up with conversations with her show biz pals, mixing humor and vulnerability. New episodes every Tuesday at The Sonar Network or wherever you listen to podcasts! TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim 20% off any new system. Show Links Daniel’s poems, etc Daniel’s music writing Find Daniel on Mastadon at @dannyglamour@toot.community Two Dots s3-ocr MultiMarkdown Composer Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jeffreyguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Code Word Felix with Daniel Muro LaMere [00:00:00] Intro:Outro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Jeffrey: Hello, everybody out there. This is Jeff and I am here with Brett. Christina is not with us. We miss her and we have, um, replaced her for one week only with, uh, with a fellow who has been name checked more times on this podcast than any of our partners [00:00:22] Brett: true. [00:00:23] Jeffrey: uh, we call ’em Denny Glam. But his name is Daniel Miro Lair. [00:00:28] He’s a writer. He’s a, he’s a poet. He’s a, he’s a hardcore archivist. He’s a teacher who? A bunch of kids. welcome to Overtired. [00:00:39] Daniel: Thanks for having me. Um, I do wanna say that I don’t seek to replace anyone. I’m just happy to be here. [00:00:45] Jeffrey: Well, that’s a nice spirit with which to enter the podcast. [00:00:48] Brett: I still consider usurper. [00:00:52] Daniel: Fair enough. [00:00:53] Jeffrey: Bend the knee. [00:00:54] Daniel: Gauntlet thrown, [00:00:57] Jeffrey: Um, Daniel is actually in my guest room right now. He is guesting on this podcast from my guest room. Um, and his, his setup is really depressing cause our guest room is still the, like covid guest room, which means it’s not a guest room at all. [00:01:10] Daniel: but there’s lots of books. [00:01:12] Jeffrey: There’s some books. [00:01:13] Brett: What is a Covid guest room? [00:01:15] Jeffrey: Like, uh, we turned it into a treadmill. there’s no longer a bed in there [00:01:20] Brett: Oh, I see like a pandemic. A pandemic guest room. Okay, [00:01:24] Jeffrey: nobody came over, you could just throw things into any room and it didn’t matter. And it never came around to bite you in the ass. That’s where Dan, that’s where Daniel is. He’s basically [00:01:32] Daniel: the air’s not safe to breathe. [00:01:34] Jeffrey: the basement. [00:01:34] The air is not safe to breathe. No. Um, so anyway, uh, hello. [00:01:40] Brett: Hello. [00:01:41] Jeffrey: Here we are. Go ahead Brett. You got so. [00:01:43] Brett: I gotta, I gotta warn everyone. I, my, my family’s in town for Christmas and I had some burning questions from my brother that maybe we’ll get into later. But, um, I invited him over for bourbon at noon and I drank, uh, two glasses. Uh, we’ll say, we’ll say like singles. I drank two singles at noon, and I, I just like crashed. [00:02:16] After he left. I was just like worn out and now I’m here on a podcast and I am super, I am basically in recovery mode. I, I don’t, I don’t know what’s happening around me right now. [00:02:31] Jeffrey: Well, you could do the exercise where you go green walls, uh, framed pictures, bass, guitar, and another bass guitar. What do I see in there? Treadmill on its side. That’s not how those go. Um, [00:02:43] Brett: is, it is a treadmill on its side. You’re not wrong, I have a standing desk that I can, that I can elevate and then floor this treadmill down, and it’s a walking desk. But for the purpose of podcasting, I lower it and sit in a, in a chair, like a, like a normal person. [00:03:00] Jeffrey: So Daniel, I’ve said a lot about who you are, but actually, why don’t you take control of the narrative. Tell us who you are, Daniel. Introducing Danny Glamour [00:03:08] Daniel: Oh my. Um, well, hello, I’m Daniel Mira Lair, uh, AKA a Danny Glamour. Uh, there’s a long origin story there, but, um, I’ll spare the listeners. Um, I teach high school English and uh, a class called Avid, which is like a college prep class and critical ethnic studies. And I’m a dad and I got some animals that live in my house. [00:03:30] And, um, And I write poetry sometimes, and I blog about music sometimes. And, um, and I would love it if, if people would come hang out with me on Mastodon sometimes. So, um, that’s, that’s I think what, oh, and I’m like, you know, an elderly, uh, punk rock hardcore person, so, um, [00:03:51] Brett: Poke rockers. Yeah, I, I think, I think you’re as old now as Bob Murderer was when I was in like the punk rock. [00:03:59] Daniel: Oh, Bob Murderer. You know, there was a time, [00:04:02] Jeffrey: That’s like rural juror. [00:04:03] Daniel: yeah, there was a time when you, you could see that guy reliably on public transit. Um, I think we had a similar schedule for a while, um, coming from Whittier to downtown and, um, in Minneapolis. Uh, and um, also at the Triple Rock Social Club. You know, you’d often see him swallowing, uh, large quantities of cider. [00:04:23] Brett: Yep. [00:04:24] Jeffrey: Okay. I wanna say something as a, I’ll be a stand in for the listener. I have, I have spent time with these two together before in person and I, while I, I came up in the punk rock, Minneapolis. Thing I was not in the parallel existence, uh, the multiverse existence of the hardcore scene here, which both Brett and, and Daniel were like deep in. [00:04:46] And so every once in a while one of them would just go, yeah, like Bob Murderer And, and I just encourage you listeners to just, you know, nod your heads smile cuz you’ll, you’ll get somewhere with [00:04:57] Daniel: I think it’s probably a, a, a phrase that would be worth Googling and I think all would be revealed, uh, if, if the listener googled Bob murderer. But, um, also I was thinking of [00:05:07] Jeffrey: I’m sorry. [00:05:08] Daniel: no. What? Oh, yeah. Robert. Robert Homicide, um, [00:05:14] Jeffrey: Robert, this is is his Christian [00:05:17] Daniel: Yeah, that’s right. No, I was thinking, um, today or recently about how, um, you know, we all do sort of come from punk rock, but I think each of us sort of in a, a different corner or niche, uh, part of that at the same time, which is funny for a town as small as Minneapolis. [00:05:37] Jeffrey: Yes. And, and back in the day there was very, there was, as the nineties went on, there was much more sort of intersection. So if you take an example like the band Dillinger four, which is [00:05:46] Brett: No, [00:05:47] Jeffrey: a, a, a punk rock slash not, you call ’em punk rock or hardcore, what do you call them? [00:05:51] Brett: I call him pop punk. [00:05:53] Jeffrey: Pop punk. Yeah, [00:05:54] Daniel: You know, I asked, uh, Patty on, on Twitter not long ago, um, you know, is Dillinger for a hardcore band? And he said no, but heavily influenced by hardcore. So I don’t know, you know, he’s one of the, of the four. So that’s, you know, [00:06:06] Jeffrey: Because they were, in a way, the Dillinger four were the, um, were the bridge between the sort of more sort of punk rock noise, rock scene and then the hardcore scene. And there was, when I was in a band and playing like there was such a division. And then as the years went on, uh, the two scenes just started to sort of like, you know, intermesh in a really cool way so that now it’s kind of everyone. [00:06:29] History. But I will tell you when, when you guys show me, like I saw this, this YouTube page today by, what was the guy’s name? Daniel Zimmerman. [00:06:37] Daniel: Dan Zimmerman. Yeah. [00:06:38] Jeffrey: Zimmerman. Who? Who is, we explained this archive cause it’s incredible. [00:06:42] Daniel: Um, the, the page is called 25 after, um, and it’s, you know, Dan used to play guitar in harvest. Um, I think he later moved to Brazil, and I think he might live in Spain now. Um, I’m not entirely sure, but he. You know, used to always have a camcorder o over his shoulder at every show. And so, um, you know, a lot of us knew that there was this, you know, vault of, you know, content and, you know, we’re like, when is he ever gonna do anything with this? [00:07:10] And so, um, in the last handful of years, he’s digitized all these shows and he releases them, you know, as best he can 25 years to the. after, you know, the show happened and he’ll like release it, you know, at, you know, Showtime seven, 8:00 PM or whatever [00:07:25] Jeffrey: A stream. A live stream, essentially. [00:07:27] Daniel: On YouTube. Um, and sometimes [00:07:29] Brett: 25 year delay on [00:07:31] Daniel: Well, and sometimes it’s like 26 or, you know, with the, um, the code 13 disembodied video that I sent to these guys earlier. Um, I think that was like 27 years ago. But also really great example of world’s colliding because those were bands that existed in very different scenes. But, um, it, you know, it’s funny, Jeff, I don’t wanna contradict what you said before, but I, to my mind, and maybe this is, um, evidence of our. [00:07:58] Experiences within punk. I, I feel like the nineties were a time when there were way more mixed bills and, and bands that were really different that played together or were on comps together, like the, um, the no slow algo, [00:08:10] Brett: Yeah. Oh man. [00:08:12] Daniel: And I feel like things really, um, sort of calcified where people kind of ended up in their own corners, um, as time went on, uh, where, you know, it’d be like a hardcore show and just be like four mosh metal bands. [00:08:25] And then, you know, there’d be like a cross show. Whereas, you know, I remember some of the first shows I went to, it was like really wild, you know, pairings of styles and it that was so great and I miss that. [00:08:37] Brett: the first show I went to after moving to Minneapolis was at the University of Minnesota. Um, it, where I was attending school did not finish there, but, um, uh, saltines. And Dylan four played at like, I don’t remember the name, the name of the venue there. Uh, but it was literally across the street from the hall where I lived and, and I showed up. [00:09:06] Um, my No SOK was seminal for me, like back in high school when that came out and we, we tracked to extreme noise and. I think we met Felix that day and, and we bought no Sogo and got an introduction to the Minneapolis scene. And, and then Matt and I, all of a sudden we did these flyers for this Dill four saltine show, and we absolutely showed up for it. [00:09:38] And I believe it was all ages, no alcohol. Wow. So it was, it was kind of a weird show for me. Um, but yeah, that. That’s history right there. That’s good. [00:09:49] Daniel: I was wondering, um, If we need to have an explanatory about, um, who Felix Von Havoc is, or what extreme noise is, or any of that maybe. [00:09:59] Brett: I feel like that is, that is, that is Minneapolis history. We should definitely do that. [00:10:06] Jeffrey: Can I segue into it by saying that like Daniel and Brett both have such deep connect. Of these really key parts of Minneapolis punk hardcore history and, and things like, um, extreme noise and names like Felix become very significant so that if you listen closely and then meet someone who was from Minneapolis in those days, you could just say one of those words. [00:10:27] Brett: Felix, who we’re on a first name basis with apparently, but uh, goes by, goes by Felix Vaughn havoc, and I don’t know well enough to know his real name, but Felix Vaughn havoc is Central [00:10:38] Daniel: I’m not gonna share it here. It’s not that difficult to discover online, but it’s not for me to put it out there. Um, yeah, he, uh, I think he was a transplant from DC um, to Minneapolis. Um, and I, you know, I think had, had gotten sober. And just really threw himself at the local scene. He was, um, he sang in a band called Destroy and maybe most notably code 13 for a really long time. [00:11:01] And he still runs a label called Havoc Records, which is really great. Um, and he was one of the, um, people that were behind, uh, getting extreme noise records off the ground, which is, you know, in, in, I think next year it’ll be 29 years of, of volunteer run punk rock record store. [00:11:18] Brett: An anarchist record, sir. [00:11:20] Jeffrey: in [00:11:20] Daniel: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And it’s, uh, I volunteered there for, uh, a couple years, way back when. [00:11:26] And, um, it’s a really important institution. and I, I went there a couple weeks ago. Um, it had been a very long time and, uh, and I had just, I had had a hospitalization, which is a whole other conversation, and so I was like running errands to sort of treat myself for being able to be out in the world and, and went and. [00:11:46] And he like rang me up and I was like, I wonder does he, I knew that, I knew who he was. Like we’d been neighbors, you know, in East Phillips, in Minneapolis and like we worked on building a stage at a show space that ended up burning down. Um, and so like we knew each other, but, and I was, I. It just felt weird to like man. [00:12:07] I don’t know. I get weird about stuff like that sometimes, and so I was wondering maybe he’s doing the thing I’m doing or maybe he has no idea who I am. Um, but it was cool to see him and to know that he’s still volunteering there and just really a, a life or an important part of what I think is an important scene, even though my participation in it is somewhat, um, you know, lacking these days. [00:12:28] Yeah. Yeah. Mental Health Corner [00:12:29] Brett: Is this a mental health corner now? [00:12:31] Jeffrey: Let’s do it. [00:12:32] Brett: Um, I’ll kick it off. I, uh, I survived my, my Christmas, uh, my, my sister got delayed by the storm in the north here, um, going from Ohio to Minnesota, and she didn’t show up until like 4:00 PM on Christmas Day. And then they went ahead and had Christmas dinner. [00:12:57] And given that between EL and I and our dietary restrictions, we can eat almost nothing. Um, except for like seeds. Um, they, they had, they had Christmas dinner without us. Which I’m fine with. And then I showed up at like from six to eight maybe. We opened all the kids presents and everyone got to gimme hugs and say, thank you Uncle Brett. [00:13:25] And, and I I’m working on getting what? [00:13:30] Jeffrey: you and Elle opened all the kids’ presents. [00:13:33] Brett: No, [00:13:34] Daniel: Thank you Uncle Brett. [00:13:35] Brett: We, we [00:13:36] Jeffrey: you Uncle Brad [00:13:37] Brett: We were, we were present for the opening of the presence from us to them. Um, I’m working on getting the, the kids to call l Auntie L. Um, we’re not married and in my family I think that’s a big deal, and it’s Uncle Brett and Elle. Um, and like Elle and I are, we’re kind of in it for the long haul. [00:14:04] We don’t believe. Marriage, uh, as a, as a pairing. We we’re not big on the, the certificate. Um, but I really like, I don’t know how many years I’ll have to be with her before I can be like Auntie L Um, they still call my ex-wife an didi. So [00:14:27] Jeffrey: uh, [00:14:29] Daniel: That’s not okay. [00:14:30] Jeffrey: that’s gotta be passed along. [00:14:32] Brett: Yeah, you would think, but the fact is Uncle Brett, you know, could, it could change. Like I don’t, I, I don’t see a, a forever with anybody. Like, I love Elle and I will be with her for as long as it’s good for both of us, but when it’s not like I want the ability to move on, I don’t want, I don’t want a bunch of kids feeling dejected because something went awry in my relationship. [00:15:07] Anyway. All right. That’s, that’s beside the point. Um. My family has remained in town and they, they don’t leave until tomorrow. And I, uh, we made a visit today. El taught the nieces how to, uh, cast on, which is how you start a knitting project you cast on to the needle. Yeah, so it’s like you start, you start with a slip knot, and then there’s a series of knots that you, you, you tie around the needle to begin a knitting project. [00:15:40] And one of my nieces has gotten pretty good at knitting, but she didn’t know how to start the project. Uh, so Elle was there to teach her to cast on, she tried to teach a couple of the others. I learned a lot, very quickly about the learning styles of my nieces. I have one niece who has an interest. She a curiosity, but zero patience. [00:16:04] And as soon as something is too hard, she like, she fucked it up as much as she could and then like held it up as like, did I do it? Obviously she didn’t and, and then she was off. She was gone. But the niece who actually wanted to learn this was so patient and so determined and she got it and I. It was, that’s the kid I have a lot of hope for. [00:16:31] I think she will be, um, I think nine, maybe [00:16:35] Jeffrey: Got it. Yeah, it [00:16:36] Brett: I lose track. They keep growing. [00:16:39] Jeffrey: it’s lovely when they’re at that point where it’s like they want it. And so, you know, anything you do to help is gonna be in service of that, not in service of like [00:16:49] Brett: Yeah, but she had the, she had the patience, she had the, the determination to keep, keep getting it wrong until she got it right. I don’t have that, like I, I, I more relate to my older niece who just did not have the patience to learn this. I, I felt. I felt for her, I understood like, yeah, you should just go because this is gonna take more determination than you have. [00:17:19] You don’t have the level of determination necessary to, to beat this learning curve. Um, you’re not that interested. And I think she’s probably fine if she’s interested enough, but I wouldn’t doubt there’s some kind of a D H D going on. Uh, in her, uh, obviously I’m not a doctor. I can’t diagnose that, and she’s also very young. [00:17:44] Um, [00:17:44] Jeffrey: you’ve had a couple drinks, [00:17:48] Brett: but anyway, so, so I have this burning curiosity about like, these kids are being homeschooled, which I am innately. , I, I innately object to, um, I given how religious their parents are. I don’t like the idea of being, them being homeschooled, but in conversations, holy shit, these girls know so much and they have such a grasp on history and science and technology. [00:18:23] Uh, they, they, they’re using this method where they learn songs. Uh, like extended 13 minute long songs about like historical events and they can sing like the history of the Reformation, for example. Uh, like she was able to recite it all at the dinner table. [00:18:44] Jeffrey: just real big. They might be Giants fans, huh? [00:18:48] Brett: But, but. They’re also able to pull from that and understand the connections. [00:18:55] And the interesting thing about it is like in school we learned American history. I like, we learned what happened in the 18 hundreds, the 19 hundreds, but we didn’t necessarily learn what happened around the world. At the same time, we didn’t understand the global implications of what was happening. And these kids have already. [00:19:16] At the ages of seven to 11 years old. And, and I was very fascinated and they understood enough about science. Like I showed them pictures of my Asher photography and they started talking, me, talking to me about the, the theoretical existence of microscopic black holes. And, and I was like, holy shit. How? [00:19:38] How does a family that doesn’t believe in evolution understand? Advanced astrophysics. And so I had to have my brother over four drinks to talk about like exactly, I ne I needed to know what is it you believe and how are you conveying this to your children and. [00:19:58] Jeffrey: believe in the power of song [00:20:00] Daniel: Do you think that they maybe believe in black holes? As long as they’re small enough. [00:20:05] Brett: here’s the Here’s the thing is they act. My brother believes in evolution. Uh, he couldn’t speak for his wife. Uh, he said she didn’t care whether evolution was real or not, but he believes in evolution. He believes in the earth being billions of years old, not 6,000 years old. and he doesn’t believe in hell. [00:20:29] That was the big revelation for me, is that their brand of Christianity is, he called it nihilism, which means something, [00:20:39] Jeffrey: Donny. They can’t hurt [00:20:40] Brett: means something different to me. But for him it meant that instead of eternal damnation and burning for eternity, those who didn’t believe were just snuffed out. Like there was a reward for the saved. [00:20:56] Jeffrey: Wow. [00:20:57] Brett: there’s no, there’s no punishment. There’s no eternal punishment, uh, for not finding Jesus. And that was, [00:21:05] Jeffrey: of nihilism, isn’t it? [00:21:06] Brett: it’s a kind of Judaism, really. I, uh, [00:21:09] Jeffrey: but it’s not like arguing with God, like Judaism is so wonderful at, you know, like, it [00:21:14] Brett: it. It is, it is a little bit nihilistic. Uh, I also determined , he kept throwing around this term, right-Leaning, anarchist. Like he saw himself, [00:21:27] Daniel: I think [00:21:27] Brett: himself as a, he saw himself as [00:21:29] Daniel: way fewer [00:21:29] Brett: I know, I know [00:21:31] Jeffrey: white. [00:21:32] Brett: I, I was like, I was like, you know, you mean libertarian, right? He is like, well, it’s a, it’s a circle. And I’m like, yeah, and when you cross this gap at the bottom, you’re a libertarian. [00:21:44] So for the rest of the conversation, he was a libertarian. But, uh, but it was, it was enlightening. I, I appreciated the conversation. [00:21:52] Jeffrey: yeah. Yeah. It’s nice to open that conversation up. [00:21:56] Brett: And that’s, that’s basically my mental health right now, that that sums it up. [00:22:00] Daniel: You know, each week when I listen, um, I always think like, well, what would I say if I was in the mental health? Like, what is my, so it’s, it’s kind of a, I really appreciate this as a feature because it’s an opportunity as a listener to reflect, you know, on one’s own situation. But, um, So, yeah, I just recently, um, I alluded to it earlier, but I had a sort of a health scare. [00:22:24] Um, my, my gallbladder went, um, I’m trying to remember the sophisticated term that, um, tits up and, um, and, uh, I Thanksgiving, um, Afternoon, I was getting ready to prepare some stuffing and I was like, Ooh, I feel kind of gassy. And um, you know, and I just was like, that sucks. I was uncomfortable. And I was like, well, maybe I shouldn’t have had those dried cherries, you know? [00:22:46] And then I just like went about my business cuz I had a meal to prepare and had to get the kids together and get to my parents and didn’t think much of it. And then that night, um, laying down in bed, I had like, really bad back pain and really didn’t sleep very well. But I, you know, At that point had been really battling some insomnia for some months and months. [00:23:06] And so I was like, well, I guess this is just another night where I’m up, you know? And um, and then the next day it was like a lot of stomach and back pain and I was like, oh man. Um, I don’t know. I don’t know. I guess I’ll call the nurse line. I’m out of ideas and. The woman at the nurse line who , I think probably saved my life, uh, told me to go to the er and she’s like, yeah, if you don’t feel like you can drive yourself, you should get an ambulance. [00:23:31] And I was like, oh, okay. And for me, like calling the, I guess they call it the Caroline, um, calling the Caroline and going to the emergency room are, you know, worlds apart. The book is a lot of, lot of steps in between. And so I was like, oh God, you know, she thought it might have been my. So, yeah. So then I go to the er and again, they thought maybe it was my heart, a thing I mentioned a few times to them because they were telling people, um, nine hours, uh, for a wait. [00:23:55] And this is, you know, five o’clock, uh, 5:00 PM on Black Friday. Um, and you know, I, I wanna be clear that I’m not complaining about these people. Um, I’m complaining about our healthcare system, but there. Shit ton of people that, um, end up clogging up our emergency rooms because they are in a position where they have to use it as their primary care. [00:24:17] Because, you know, if, if you don’t have the right kind of job, then you don’t have insurance and it, or if you’re poor on disability, it’s just fucked, you know? And so, um, there’s people in all manner of, uh, disrepair. Um, and then, and then me who. Sit still because of the discomfort. So I’m pacing around and getting side eye from a lot of people. [00:24:35] One woman in particular just kept giving me, you know, fucking daggers. And then, you know, I’d walk past [00:24:40] Jeffrey: like a man son, [00:24:42] Daniel: Yeah, exactly. I’d walk past the, um, sort of the check-in booth and uh, sir, is there something we can help with? No, I just can’t get comfortable. I’m sorry. And, um, you know, and then I’m still like trying to go to the bathroom a a lot cuz I don’t know what’s going on. [00:24:54] And, um, two hours later I finally got the ekg. Uh, so thank God it wasn’t my heart and I didn’t die of a heart attack. And the chairs, um, And then finally they did like a CT scan and they, they were like, you know, I’m really sorry. We don’t have any beds. We think it, but we think it’s your, um, gallbladder and, um, you know, we’re gonna have to check you in. [00:25:15] But again, we don’t think we have any beds, so we’re just gonna have you, we’re gonna have you back in this back hallway. And, uh, sorry again. and then, yeah, I had the surgery the next day and um, so then, you know, it’s that weird thing of like having a conversation after surgery and not being sure when it started or how many times they had to try to have it with you. [00:25:34] But then, you know, as a surgeon again, she’s like, yeah, then explaining everything of course, and all these like 12 syllable words. But she’s like, yeah, you know, it was, uh, took a lot longer than we thought. And it’s like, well, it’s all the same to me. I don’t know. I was out, but. You know, it was really swollen and, um, you know, parts of it were gangrenous, other parts were necrotic. [00:25:51] And I was like, okay, I don’t, like, I was like, hold on. Did you what ? Yeah. I was like, gang, like gang green? And she’s like, yeah, yeah. And she, I was like, like, I, I could have died. And she’s like, yeah. And so, yeah. Um, and so because it, it was like four or five times the size it was supposed to be. So, um, four scars because two of them, the two became one. [00:26:12] And, um, So they could get it out. Um, and you know, and then I was like, I was like, well, maybe I’m being a weirdo and sensationalizing a thing I’m prone to doing from time to time. And so I was like, maybe this wasn’t as bad. And she, you know, cause she didn’t lead with the thing like, well, you almost died and so maybe, you know, she was like, yeah, it could have happened, but we don’t really know. [00:26:32] Um, So I, a few days later I got like my chart like sent to me on my phone and I copied it and pasted it and sent it to my, um, sister-in-law who’s a nurse in California. And I was like, yeah, I guess I just don’t really feel like I know how close I really got. And she’s like, pretty fucking close, dude. Like, that was really gnarly. [00:26:50] I’m glad you got checked out. So, [00:26:52] Jeffrey: Wow. [00:26:53] Daniel: That was a weird thing because, and I like had to work this out in therapy, which is the mental health component of it. You know, the having almost died, but not having experienced sort of the near death, you know, in the way that, [00:27:07] Brett: You didn’t, you didn’t ha, you didn’t have the diagnosis in advance. You were told in post that you almost died. [00:27:14] Daniel: And kind of had to piece it together over the course of like 10 days. [00:27:17] And so it was like, and then what? And I, you know, I always want everything to be meaningful and there’s no way to, you know, and now what shall I do with this? Well, it’s, you know, the same thing you should have done before , like to be a good person. So, um, so, you know, but I’ve, you know, I’m very aware of, um, Sort of mortality and, and also, um, how fucked up our medical system is. [00:27:40] Although nurses are amazing and I got really good care and obviously the surgeon did a great job. Um, I, I do wanna just tell people as a public service announcement, especially dudes, I feel like, um, to like get things checked out. Um, yeah, I’ve got other people in my life that have had some things happen recently where I kind of wonder if things could have been prevented had they gone in. [00:28:03] Brett: Yeah. [00:28:04] Daniel: of which was unfortunately fatal. So, um, yeah, it’s just so people should get things checked out cuz like, if I had just tried to tough it out, you know, another night, I mean, who knows? Right? So, um, [00:28:15] Brett: I, when I had appendicitis, I, I, I waited three days. I thought it was a bad flu of some kind with a lot of stomach pain. Um, and they told me if I had waited one more day, I’d be dead. [00:28:30] Daniel: that wild? [00:28:31] Brett: I went to the ER on Tuesday this week. Uh, because my watch alerted me that my heart rate had hit 120 B bpm while it had determined that I was sitting still and I was cooking at the time, I was like slowly ambling around the kitchen and my heart rate was at 120. [00:28:51] So I like sat down and it didn’t go down. Um, it, I was ranging between one 10 and one 30 for an hour before I decided, okay, I’m gonna go. To the er. I’m gonna get this checked out. It’s a Tuesday night on like Christmas break. It was pretty empty. I got seen very quickly. They did a bunch of tests. They determined I wasn’t having a heart attack, and like did, did some other tests to just see if they could figure out what was going on. [00:29:23] Didn’t resolve anything, but, uh, but they were very, they were very cool about, um, the care and, and I really appreciated that. I, I feel like a hypochondriac when it comes to that stuff. Uh, heart disease runs in my family and I worry every time, every time something abnormal happens with my heart, I worry. [00:29:46] Um, I’m very paranoid that I will die of a heart attack. So that was comforting. It was a weird way to go into a square dance with my mom. [00:29:57] Jeffrey: Wait a minute. I, sorry. my brain just like rebooted. [00:30:09] Brett: That was, that was so my parents had their square dance. Uh, and, and [00:30:15] Daniel: is an anniversary thing, right? [00:30:17] Brett: My excuse for not participating in the square dance was I just went to the ER and they told me to take it easy for a couple days. [00:30:27] Daniel: That’s great answer for a lot of people, is taking it easy, I think. But um, so [00:30:33] Brett: your partner round and round. [00:30:34] Jeffrey: Not if you’ve been, it swung. [00:30:35] Daniel: Yeah. No, no, shit. So I’ll be, I’ll be quick to wrap up my mental health situation. Um, so then I had to convalesce for a week and, um, you know, public education is a wonderful thing, but, uh, it was really, um, eye-opening, how much the job crept into my life when I was supposed to be just like laying around, being grateful to be alive and, and recer. [00:30:59] Yeah, there was like multiple things a day and it wasn’t really anybody’s fault. It’s just shit trickles down on teachers. And um, and it really, like, it’s really given me pause to think like, I wonder how much longer I can do this. And um, and that’s not to say that, I’m making a decision or not. It’s just, that’s, that’s been a weird thing because it’s that, you know, I have felt so fortunate to have found teaching and sort of fell into it and, and felt like, um, I don’t know, to have a job that I really love and feel like I’m good at feels like such a gift. [00:31:34] And to, to sort of be questioning that as. Place to be. Um, and also, um, as an ADHD person, I recently ran m into the national or international, um, stimulant shortage. I take, uh, Dexter amphetamine for my A D H D and um, good luck finding that anywhere. The guy at Walgreens was like, yeah, there’s none in the state, in our [00:31:58] Brett: Like, uh, Folkin. [00:32:01] Daniel: Uh, I dexedrine, I guess I [00:32:04] Brett: Okay. Okay. [00:32:05] Daniel: Um, and they were able, I take 15 milligrams and, um, they were able, you know, and it’s, it’s really fun to be the person with the compromise executive functioning, to be like trying to be the conduit between the psychiatrist and the pharmacies. But I was able to find a pharmacy that was able to fill, um, a 10 milligram prescription and then I just, you know, cut one in half. [00:32:27] And I have to tell you, Being back on those meds today. It was a combination of that. And my daughter had a play date today, and we are not tidy people, so we spent hours like tidying our house. I was a sweaty mess. Um, but the physical activity early in the day and the clean house and the pills, I just felt like so much better today and I’m so grateful. [00:32:52] So, um, I really. It’s kind of in rough shape the past few days and it’s, it’s nice to be back. So that is my mental health update. [00:33:02] Jeffrey: I. I have a, a, a new chapter I’m in with, initially it was the shortage and there was no Vivance. Um, and may or may not have gotten some from one of the people on the air with me right now. Uh, I can’t remember who. Um, but I, um, I got a letter from my insurance company that said, um, essentially we’re no longer, um, going to cover you taking Vivance until you have failed at, and that was the, those were the words. [00:33:32] Any of these four alternatives and they gave me the alternatives. Focalin, what you’re taking Daniel, like, you know, um, Adderall, which it does hit different than Vince, even though they’re basically the same thing. Um, and like I almost don’t have the energy to be as full of rage as that actually makes me. [00:33:53] The idea that they would take a medication I’ve been taking for I think, uh, two years now. It’s worked great for me. Um, I finally have it kind of balanced into an overall sort of cocktail and then say, Hey, guess what? We’re gonna play a little game. Okay, no more Vivance. Now we’re gonna play fail at folk [00:34:11] Right? [00:34:12] Brett: that is, [00:34:12] Jeffrey: like, oh my God, those are such different drugs. Like [00:34:15] Brett: is the ADHD game, man. [00:34:17] Jeffrey: that. Yeah. It’s like you’re the worst drug dealer ever. Um, [00:34:21] Daniel: Vivance newer too, like [00:34:24] Brett: Yeah. Vivance is newer than Adderall, but it, like, it’s the same families Adderall, but it, it, uh, it, it, uh, moves through your system differently. It’s more, it’s more directly processed by the liver. Um, [00:34:38] Jeffrey: and it’s actually partly made so that you to kind of, it was an answer to the problem of snorting [00:34:44] Brett: yeah. [00:34:45] Jeffrey: Um, basically it’s like you can’t snort by band and [00:34:48] Brett: I mean, you can, but it [00:34:49] Jeffrey: can, yeah, you can, part of the reason that works is cuz it moves differently through your body. So my understanding is that Adderall just hits right away. [00:34:57] Um, and is a little bit and drops you off at the door, you know, like a few hours later, [00:35:02] Daniel: What about if you cooked it down into a gummy? [00:35:06] Brett: Uh, [00:35:07] Jeffrey: Hey. [00:35:07] Brett: a good idea. I’ll let you know. [00:35:09] Jeffrey: yeah, let us know. By the way, there’s a new cannabis shop in, in my neighborhood called Cannabis. [00:35:14] Brett: Oh my God. So Minnesota [00:35:16] Jeffrey: Minnesotan thing ever, [00:35:20] Brett: So, so we’re gonna have to take a sponsor break here. [00:35:23] Jeffrey: let’s. Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:35:24] Brett: I’m gonna tell you about Simply Safe. Did you know that property crimes like burglar breeze and package thefts spike over the winter? That’s why now is the best time to secure your home with award-winning home security. Simply Safe is the home security system that I recommend to everybody. [00:35:43] Make it your resolution to start the new year with greater peace of mind and safety for you and your family. Here’s why we love it. Simply Save was named the best home security system of 2022 by US News and World Report, a third year in a row in an emergency 24 7. Professional monitoring agents use fast. [00:36:06] TM technology exclusively from SimpliSafe to capture critical evidence and verify the threat is real, so you can get priority police response. SimpliSafe is whole home security with advanced sensors for every room, window and door. HG security cameras for insight and out. 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There’s no safe like SimpliSafe. Do you ever look at your favorite comedians and think, wow, they’re so successful. They must be so confident. [00:37:49] Jeffrey: Every night on TikTok. Podcast Swap: Self-Esteem Party [00:37:51] Brett: right? So guess what? They’re all hanging on. Hanging on by a thread just like us. Thanks to social media. Self-esteem is a huge part of our everyday experience. The same goes for people who make us laugh. Self-esteem party is the perfect blend of comedy and honesty each week. Comedian and self-proclaimed superstar, Alana Johnson interviews one of her showbiz pals and dives right into the core of who they really are and how they feel about themselves. [00:38:23] Alana playfully guides her friends through their. Own self self-exploration while simultaneously cracking them up. Each guest reveals a different struggle with their own self-esteem, self-image, and self-care. They’re powerful, relatable conversations interspersed with Alana’s exuberant comedy. So the next time you’re feeling down on yourself, check out Self-Esteem Party. [00:38:49] And let Alana cheer you up. New episodes every tuesday@thesonarnetwork.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. [00:38:58] Jeffrey: I’m gonna talk about text expander. Get your team communicating faster so they can focus on what’s most important. With text expander your team’s knowledge is at their fingertips. Get your whole team on the same page by getting information outta silos and into the hands of everyone that needs to use it. [00:39:14] You can share your team’s knowledge across departments, so your team is sending a unified message to your customers and isn’t spending time reinventing the wheel. Here’s how it works. First, you store it, whatever it is, keep your company’s most used, emails, phrases, messaging URLs, and more, right within Text Expander. [00:39:34] Then you could share it, get your whole team access to the all the content they need to use every day. Then you expand it, deploy the contents you need with just a few keystrokes on any device across any apps you use. It is that easy. Text Expander is available on Mac, windows, Chrome, iPhone. Overtired listeners, that’s you get 20% off their first year. [00:39:56] Visit text expander.com/podcast to learn more about text expander. Okay. Ad reads, check. Grapptitude [00:40:06] Brett: Oh, we did It. Is, uh, Danny, are you participating in. [00:40:12] Daniel: Yeah, I got one. [00:40:14] Jeffrey: Oh yeah. Way to come [00:40:15] Brett: let’s, let’s kick it off with our guest. [00:40:18] Jeffrey: Okay. [00:40:18] Daniel: thank you. Um, I am not a power user of, um, anything that I’ve ever put my hands to. I would like to say that off the top. Um, but I, and also the laptop I use belongs to the school district for which I work. Um, and so I am not able to, To do fun things with it, nor would I know how. Um, but, um, I, I’m a big fan of the iOS app. [00:40:43] Two Dots. Two Dots, which is a [00:40:46] Jeffrey: Yes. [00:40:46] Daniel: It’s a, it’s a game wherein one, uh, you know, connects dots and there’s nice, like, chill music that I rarely turn on. Um, but you know, in those times that I, I think I’ve heard others refer to as interstitial times throughout the day. I like to just, you know, have little two dots going. [00:41:04] And it’s good for, you know, sometimes, you know, I might be watching a show and playing two dots at the same time, cuz that’s how my brain works. Um, especially late in the day when I’m not medicated. But, um, yeah, it’s just a nice little, it’s just a nice little game. I’m on. I’ll, I’ll tell you now. I’m on level. [00:41:18] Let’s look. Well, I, I wanna tell you, but I, I, hold on. Okay. Games over here. Click on it. I’ve been playing this bad boy for like eight years. Looks like we’re on level, um, level 2,938. [00:41:32] Brett: Jesus. [00:41:33] Daniel: So that’s [00:41:34] Jeffrey: Hap good haptic feedback that game The little vibrations. [00:41:38] Daniel: And, uh, accessibility for the, you know, I don’t, thankfully I am not, I don’t believe colorblind or if I am, it’s just a, just a touch of the colorblindness. [00:41:49] Um, but I, uh, you know, they do have a colorblind feature if, if one needs that. Yeah. [00:41:56] Jeffrey: That’s awesome. I, I, I’ve also been playing for eight years. The reason it’s not on my phone is the same reason it’s never on my phone because it’s never on my phone for more than three days, and I get so hooked and like completely like lost in it that I’m like, gotta delete this app. It’s too good. [00:42:11] Brett: I’ve never played this game. [00:42:14] Jeffrey: Oh, it’s so delightful. [00:42:16] Daniel: I wanna say too, one thing I like about it is that they don’t it, it doesn’t feel like they mess with it. You know, whereas like there were other apps that I, that I have enjoyed both games and otherwise, where it’s, you know, a couple of them are getting folded into things at the end of the year, like Dark Sky. [00:42:32] Um, and you know, I’m a big fan of Geo Guesser, but they just did something weird with that. And, you know, I just, I like for people to just leave well enough alone, you know, leave, leave, leave my, just don’t, don’t get in there and mess with my stuff. [00:42:47] Jeffrey: Exactly My, my pick is a tool by Simon Williamson who used to work for The Guardian doing sort of journalism hacker shit. Um, and once he left the guardian, Built something called Dataset, which is just an amazing, um, tool for, you know, looking at, looking over your kind of SQLite databases. But he also has a bunch of tools that help you create those databases. [00:43:12] And so he wrote a tool called s3, o c r. Um, and basically what it allowed me to do was say, Hey, there’s that bucket over there. I want you to OCR everything in it. Right? And that’s cool, but the thing that you can do next that’s amazing is create a whole index of everything there. So, I, I, I ended up with this amazing like, um, SQLite database that allows me to interact with the data in these, um, documents in a way that I didn’t never dreamed was possible. [00:43:45] So, It’s a little tool. It’s a little tool that allows you to OCR the stuff you have in your S3 bucket. And that just seems so simple, but lemme tell you, it’s not [00:43:56] Brett: So, so my, my pick y for my pick. You have to go back to Byword. Um, [00:44:04] Jeffrey: byword. B y [00:44:06] Daniel: W a [00:44:06] Brett: B Y W o R d, byword, [00:44:09] Jeffrey: app. [00:44:10] Brett: great app. It was a, it was a great, very minimalist in the spirit of TechMate. Like the first time I opened TechMate, I was a, I was a pretty brand new Mac user and I opened up TechMate and there was no toolbar, there was no menu. [00:44:28] Nothing. [00:44:29] Jeffrey: Yeah. [00:44:29] Brett: Um, and it took me, there’s this like learning curve you have to go through to realize everything is keyboard based and, and all of the features are there. You just don’t have a word esque menu bar to tell you where everything is by word was like the pretty version of that for writing markdown [00:44:50] Jeffrey: not was I still use by word, [00:44:52] Brett: byword still, still operates, still. Great app. Um, and then I found a multi markdown by Fletcher Penny, uh, which was a flavor of markdown that incorporated a bunch of things that. That standard markdown didn’t like tables and footnotes and citations, et cetera. Um, and Fletcher built an app called Mark Mult, multi markdown composer, uh, which currently version five is in beta and I am on the beta for it, and it remain. [00:45:28] These days my go-to for markdown editing, um, the engine that runs all of the text transformations and editing in multi markdown composer is being is in Envi Ultra. Um, it’s basically the same. The underpinnings of multi-market on Composer are available. In ENV Ultra, he like, he built them as sea libraries that are portable to other applications. [00:45:58] So that’s what you get when you are running ENV Ultra. But if you want the full version with basically design for longform, markdown editing, uh, multi markdown composer is my pick for the week. And it is, it is an app that I use pretty much daily. [00:46:20] Jeffrey: I need to revisit it. I, I loved it when I think I used it around version two or three [00:46:25] Brett: Yeah, it’s version five is outstanding. Uh, my favorite thing he ever added, which you cannot find in envy Ultra is table of contents. Uh, manipulation. So like you, you set up headings in your document with, you know, uh, hash marks to set like heading one, heading two, heading three. Uh, multi markdown composer in the sidebar creates, uh, a hierarchy of your headers and then you can drag one head. [00:46:59] Before another header and everything between that header and the next header will drag with it. So you can manipulate, yeah, you can reorganize your document just by dragging the headers around in the table of contents menu bar. And it has a ton of features like that. That better outstanding? [00:47:20] Jeffrey: Awesome. [00:47:21] Brett: Yep. Yep, yep. [00:47:23] Jeffrey: All right. [00:47:24] Daniel: Buy word is, uh, $5 and 89 cents. [00:47:27] Brett: Mm-hmm. [00:47:27] Jeffrey: it? Yeah. I paid it years ago and I still use it when I’m really, my brain’s really cluttered and I need to write something. I will just open up [00:47:36] Brett: Best. Best. My favorite feature of byword that does exist in multi-market on Composer and in NV Ultra is Command Option Up Arrow. Um, if you have, if your, your cursor is in a word command option, up arrow will select the word, you hit it again, it will select the sentence. You hit it again, it will select the paragraph. [00:48:00] You hit it again, it’ll select the full document. It, it expands your selection from the cursor position, [00:48:07] Jeffrey: Hit it again and it opens up, uh, chat, g p t [00:48:10] Brett: uh, no, it opens up a wormhole and then you’re fucked. [00:48:14] Daniel: But a microscopic wormhole. [00:48:16] Brett: Microscopic. Yep. [00:48:17] Jeffrey: you can believe in, you know, Well, it’s been a pleasure talking to you people. [00:48:22] Daniel: Hey, [00:48:23] Brett: Oh my God. It’s over already. [00:48:25] Daniel: I’m really tired. [00:48:26] Brett: I feel like. I feel like we hit a bare minimum of Minneapolis hardcore history. [00:48:31] Jeffrey: That’s true. Can always do more [00:48:34] Daniel: Yeah, it’s probably the re listeners are probably glad for that. [00:48:41] Jeffrey: Well, listeners, I do hope you’re glad, whoever you are, because the one listener and I know is always listening is on the fucking podcast. So I’m not sure what our analytics are gonna look like. [00:48:52] Daniel: I’ll still listen. I liked the sound of my own voice. [00:48:56] Jeffrey: Me too. Me too. That’s true. Uh, you guys get some sleep, but not yet. You’re in a guest room without a bed. But like, you know, as it goes, get some. [00:49:03] Brett: Get some sleep. [00:49:04] Daniel: Get some sleep. Thanks.

Take a trip back to New Year’s 1999 and relive the horror and delight that was the Y2K scare. Plus, classic literature, hilarious antics, and some great apps of the week in the Grapptitude segment. Sponsor Cancel your unused subscriptions and save hundreds of dollars a year with Rocket Money. Visit RocketMoney.com/Overtired to get started. The next time you’re feeling down on yourself, check out Self Esteem Party and let Alana Johnston cheer you up with conversations with her show biz pals, mixing humor and vulnerability. New episodes every Tuesday at The Sonar Network or wherever you listen to podcasts! TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Y2K Survival Guide Wikipedia — The Year 2000 Problem King of the Hill – Hillenium Affinity Photo 2 Astrophotography Stacking in Affinity Photo Shooting Stars with iTelescope.net Obisidian — Canvas Pixelmator Pro Craft Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 311 [00:00:00] Christina: [00:00:02] So how’s the weather? [00:00:02] Christina: You are listening to Overtired. I am Christina Warren. Joined as always by Brett Terpstra and Jeff Severns Gunztel Gentlemen, how are you doing this? Uh, you know, Christmas Eve? Eve, [00:00:18] Brett: So cold. [00:00:19] Jeff: I’m lucky to be alive [00:00:23] Brett: Yeah. Like I, I, I know, I know Christina’s got unseasonably cold weather in, uh, you’re in Atlanta, right? [00:00:30] Christina: I am in Atlanta. Yes. [00:00:32] Brett: And it’s like 12 degrees. [00:00:33] Christina: It’s like 12 degrees. [00:00:35] Brett: Our, we, when it gets this cold in Minnesota, we, we go by wind chill. Um, because that’s all that matters, how fast we will your face freeze when you step out the door. Uh, we, we have, [00:00:46] Jeff: Fuck that. How fast will you die if you step out the [00:00:50] Brett: Jeff and I have negative 30 degrees right now. [00:00:54] Jeff: It’s beautiful. [00:00:54] Brett: It’s crazy. [00:00:55] Christina: So, so, [00:00:56] Brett: warm up today. It’s gonna get up to negative 26. [00:01:00] So looking forward to that. [00:01:03] Christina: it’s only the windshield here is only five degrees. So, uh, or, or, or is is, is actually, sorry. I was gonna say is actually five degrees. So, so we’re not as bad as you. [00:01:12] Jeff: but that’s [00:01:12] Brett: frigid. Nonetheless. That is still, that’s still frostbite in about 15 minutes. [00:01:18] Jeff: What I [00:01:19] Christina: we’re not used to this, this sort of, you know, weather, [00:01:23] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, that’s what Jeff was saying. Like, we, us Midwesterners, we, we talk about like our, our, our cold and our snow and everything, but we have the infrastructure to deal [00:01:36] Jeff: the constitutions. [00:01:37] Brett: have, we have years of dealing with this. We’re, yeah, we’re, we’re used to it. This is almost expected for us, but like the rest of the country now is seeing whether that they’re not prepared [00:01:48] Jeff: It’s scary. [00:01:49] Christina: Yeah. So I left, I left Seattle on, um, what day was it? Sunday. No, Tuesday left Seattle on Tuesday and, uh, today’s Friday. And, [00:02:00] uh, it was like snowing, like right as I was leaving it to the point that our flight was delayed about half an hour because it started snowing fairly heavily and then we, they had to de-ice the, the tarmac had let us get off and whatnot. [00:02:12] Christina: But even just the, the, the light, you know, pattern of snow is just so, such a weird comparison to snow in New York where, you know, the streets are salted and people are used to it. And the way that they design the roads and stuff are usually so that like, if it snows, you’ll be able to walk on it. Okay. And, you know, I have, I’m like, I have this cobblestone type of walkway outside of my apartment complex on this like one way street, which is in no way conducive cuz this has happened before when it snowed or, or iced over. [00:02:48] Christina: Like you could fall on your ass and, and, and really hurt yourself. Oh yeah. Or. Like the University of Washington, this girl slipped on black ice and died, and they didn’t have any [00:03:00] signs up. So her parents sued the fuck out of the school, and I hope they got every single dollar in the universe because that was 100% the university’s fault. [00:03:08] Christina: Like, fuck them for real, for not having signs up or anything when there was black ice. Also, Seattle, I’m gonna bitch about this for a second. They refuse to ice the, the sidewalks and it’s, it now it snows. They’re usually in February. And, and, and [00:03:22] Brett: do you mean salt? The sidewalks? [00:03:24] Christina: Yeah, they refuse to, [00:03:25] Brett: You said ice the sidewalks. I feel like [00:03:28] Christina: sorry, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sorry. [00:03:29] Christina: They refuse to salt the sidewalks. Wh the ice. Sorry about that. So they refuse to ice, uh, salt the, the sidewalks when, when they’re iced over because they’re worried about the fucking fish. And like, here’s the thing, for one or two days out of the year, Fuck the fish. Dude, I don’t give a shit. People are dying. [00:03:48] Christina: No, when, when, when, when? When a girl, when a girl at UDub dies because they don’t have the proper way to, you know, de-ice stuff. Like, fuck that. Like, honestly, [00:04:00] like fuck that forever. I, I, I, I, like, I, the, the environmentalists can come after me, but the rest of the freaking country that also has big fishing things has figured out how to get rid of ice. [00:04:10] Christina: I mean, again, Midwest, you know, you’ve got a lot of lakes and stuff there. New York, the whole, like East coast, they ice shit. So like, fuck the fish, man. Like they will adapt or it’ll be three days and it’s not the end of the world, but maybe like, maybe 19 year old girls won’t slip and die. [00:04:27] Jeff: This is [00:04:27] Brett: I finally bought crampons this year. Do you know what crampons. [00:04:31] Christina: I do, I do. [00:04:32] Jeff: so much. That sounds like tampon [00:04:33] Brett: I know it’s, it’s a weird word, cramp and tampon and like, it just has all these like weird associations. But for anyone who doesn’t know crampons are, uh, cleats, metal cleats for your shoes. And, and I got some that are, they’re rubber and I, you just slip ’em on as if they were rubbers, not like condoms, but like, I know it’s so many. [00:04:56] Jeff: It’s a really problematic topic. [00:04:57] Brett: Yeah, but like I can, I can [00:05:00] flip ’em on before I go for a walk with the dog who now refuses, like, we get her all suited up, we get socks and boots on her. We put two coats on her, get her all bundled up, get her out into the middle of the driveway. We get her out to the driveway and she just plants, she plants her her paws and refuses she’ll. [00:05:18] Brett: Like she does a hard look away when she doesn’t wanna, when she wants to let you know, like she does not like what’s happening. She hard turns away from you. And she does that in the middle of the driveway. And I’ve tried like just getting her, just getting her to walk a little ways cuz she won’t poop unless she walks. [00:05:36] Brett: So if she doesn’t walk, then she just barks all night and like goes outside for like 30 seconds and then she’s like, no, I gotta let me back in. So I’ve been trying and we, it takes like 10 minutes to get her all suited up and to get my park on and everything. And then she just plants her feet in the driveway and will not get, she won’t walk. [00:05:56] Brett: It’s uh, I get it. I do, but it’s, [00:06:00] it’s been frustrating last night to try to get her moving so she would poop. I went to the basement and Elle stood upstairs and we called her back and forth and gave her a treat on each end just to get her to run up and down the stairs, uh, to try to try to move that poop out. [00:06:16] Brett: And, and she did it about four times and then she just, I called her and instead she just ran to the couch and just like buried her head in the couch. She’s like, I’m done with this [00:06:27] Christina: She’s like, I’m, I’m not. She’s like, I don’t like the cold. I’m not into this. I was not, I was not, I was [00:06:32] Brett: into the stair climber [00:06:33] Jeff: You are reminding me of all of my friends who have this experience but then also are like, fuck no kids . It’s like really? It’s a lot easier. [00:06:44] Christina: See? And I’m like, fuck no to both, right? I’m like, I’m, I’m like, I’m like, I, I, I love animals and, uh, uh, some, some kids are cute, but I’m like, absolutely not. [00:06:55] Brett: Yeah, I could, I could honestly live without the dog. Um, [00:07:00] I, I [00:07:00] Jeff: I was gonna ask you, you’ve got both and like, cuz my thought when I hear that also is like, that’s why cats, but you’ve got both so you [00:07:06] Brett: Yeah, no, I, I’m, I’m a cat guy. Uh, it’s el I had Emma the pit bull and I loved her dearly and she gave me so much love, like she was worth. And she, she really just, other than being dog aggressive, um, like she was fine with any person, especially love children and just like would curl up with you and love you. [00:07:28] Brett: And she was not a pain in the ass. But Lulu, who, who is Elle’s dog? I mean our dog now we’ve been together long enough. I have to take some ownership of this dog. But, um, but Lulu does, she, she doesn’t lick. Like I love when dogs lick my face. I know a lot of people fucking hate that. Uh, [00:07:48] Jeff: this, are we leading into your, um, rocket money ad [00:07:51] Brett: But, but it, it, that feels like love to me. [00:07:54] Brett: And, uh, and, and she doesn’t do that. And she’s very just [00:08:00] needy and prissy and also dog aggressive. Like we can’t take her to the dog part cuz she’ll fight everybody. And I don’t, it’s just not as much fun as Emma. And if I had to choose right now, I would 100% take my cats. [00:08:15] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. No, we, I was, I was gonna say I’m a dog person, but, but part of that is I’ve, I, well, I’m allergic to cats, not super, super bad. Um, my dad is like, incredibly allergic and like, like, like walks into a house where the cat might not even be there, but if there’s any whiff of the, the dander at all, then his face and his fingers and his glands and everything starts swelling. [00:08:43] Christina: And, um, uh, like, like, uh, you know, probably be the thing. Or he could probably go into like a, uh, um, [00:08:50] Brett: Anaphylactic shock. Yeah. [00:08:52] Christina: Yeah, if you were around too many cats, uh, honestly, which makes it funnier that like the one time our family did have a cat is because my [00:09:00] sister wanted one. This is before I was born. And, uh, and he, he let her have a cat and then I guess she, you know, like everybody realized that it was just not for the best and, and something happened to that cat. [00:09:10] Christina: I don’t know. But, um, so I grew up with dogs, so I, I’m not as comfortable with cats even putting some of the allergy stuff aside, which for me is mostly just like itchy eyes. Um, [00:09:22] Brett: tried hairless Cats? [00:09:25] Christina: but again, I’ve never been around cats that much. So cuz my, my whole thing too is that like, I, I think that personality-wise, there are parts of me that would appeal to me, and then there are parts to me where I’m like, oh shit, no, they jump on things and they get into stuff and like, [00:09:40] Brett: love it. [00:09:42] Christina: and I’m like, and I’m like, oh hell no, like, [00:09:45] Brett: I love watching a cat get up on a bookshelf and just like test things to see what will move. And as soon as something budges a little, knock it on the floor, like I get that, like I that like, I’m like, I feel you man. I get that . So if it moves, knock [00:10:00] it on the floor. [00:10:01] Christina: Yeah, and, and then, then I’m like, I’m like, what the fuck are you doing, man? I just spent all this time organizing this or like say outta my jewelry box. So. [00:10:09] Brett: that’s what you get for organizing. I I get it. I get it. [00:10:14] Jeff: That’s why I want, want a monkey. [00:10:15] Mental Health Corner… Christmas is coming [00:10:15] Brett: so for the mental health corner, I think we should mix it up with kind of Christmas plans. Um, we got a couple days till Christmas. I know all of us have very different situations when it comes to Christmas, so, uh, for me, my Christmas plans are pretty tied to my mental health right now, , and, and so I figured we could combine the two. [00:10:37] Brett: But, uh, Christina, what are. What are your Christmas slash mental health plans? [00:10:43] Christina: So I’m with my family in Atlanta. I had Covid last week. Um, and that was man, like, so my big, my big kind of takeaway on that was, um, I was just really tired. Uh, but it knocked my, knocked me on my [00:11:00] ass. Like it really, really did. I, I, I thought that I had it, uh, in January and I might have, but in that case it was not like this, like this, whatever, this strain, whatever this latest strain is for me. [00:11:13] Christina: I had a, and here’s the thing, I wouldn’t have even known that I was positive, but my mom unknowingly had it. So did my dad. And I was like, well, I’m just gonna take a test. And my first test was positive, but I’d messed it up. And so I was like, well, I cured the test. Not a big deal. I took another one. I waited. [00:11:31] Christina: I thought I’d waited the 15 minutes and it was negative. I was like, okay, cool. I’m fine. And then two days later I was looking at the bathroom counter. and I looked at the test again and I realized there was a very faint red line. I was like, oh shit. And then I took a test again and I was immediately red. [00:11:48] Christina: And then Grant, I got it from him because he was sick first. And uh, and, and he was immediately positive and, and he was negative. I think as of like Sunday that I think it took me until, or Saturday it took me into like [00:12:00] Monday to be negative, but I was just like knocked on my ass for that. So, um, my parents likewise have been sick and so Christmas here are slash holiday plan. [00:12:09] Christina: So I’m in Atlanta, um, with my family, but um, everybody’s just feels like a week behind because we all got knocked on our asses for a week. So, um, but the good news is, is this’ll be, not baby’s first Christmas, but it’ll be the first one that he is a little more aware of, cuz. [00:12:28] Brett: for sure. [00:12:30] Christina: Right. Cause he’s, he’s 20 months now, so, um, we have a, a Thomas, the, the tank Engine right on toy coming today that also has a track so he can both ride on it, um, like, you know, through the house or through the backyard. [00:12:44] Christina: But there’s also like a circular track that it goes around too. So [00:12:49] Jeff: is what it’s like when you get a job. [00:12:52] Christina: Exactly. So, so, because, well, he really likes trains. He really likes trains and I wanted to get him a car of some sort. And then I saw this [00:13:00] Thomas thing and I was like, oh, this is actually even better because he is so little. [00:13:02] Christina: Um, you know, like maybe get him the G wagon for a second birthday, but, and this way he can like, use it indoors in outdoors. So now that the fun part will be, you know, getting him all kinds of toys and stuff and in watching that unfold, cuz the rest of us have just been kind of on our asses. So that’s me. [00:13:24] Brett: All right. [00:13:27] Jeff: Uh, you know, I don’t have a lot of emotional, uh, sort of. I don’t know what chaos or trauma or anything around Christmas, um, like so many people I know and love do. Um, so we, every other year we stay home and, uh, on the flip side, we go to Indianapolis, where my wife’s parents are. And, um, I can just say I just love staying home. [00:13:53] Jeff: I actually love being in her parents’ house. They’re great, they’re wonderful people. Um, fun to be around. Uh, but [00:14:00] I just love to be home. I, um, I, uh, I come from on one side, a gigantic family, gigantic Catholic family. So we’ll go there for Christmas Eve and there’ll be about 45 people there. Um, and I find that exhausting. [00:14:13] Jeff: Uh, it’s fine. It’s not terrible, but it’s exhausting. Uh, but I love a quiet Christmas morning. That’s like my favorite thing in the world. Uh, and, and we get that, get that all to ourselves this time. So it’s always hard to say out loud cuz I, it’s like, Hey everybody, listen. I like coming there. I like coming here, but I love, love being alone with my family on Christmas Eve. [00:14:35] Jeff: So I’m looking forward to that. Um, and, uh, yeah, I don’t know. That’s, I don’t have mu I don’t have much to report on that front. [00:14:43] Brett: All right. Okay. Um, I, uh, my, my whole family is in town, like my brother, my sister, my parents, all of their children. Um, and I am, my brother’s been [00:15:00] in town since like Tuesday and I haven’t seen him yet cuz I, I’m not comfortable around my brother. Um, I like his kids, but I don’t need to see a lot of them. Um, I, I have a lot of. [00:15:15] Brett: Weird emotions around family in general. Um, I like my sister and her family better, but still not like, Hey, let’s all go out and get manicures or whatever. I don’t know what people do with their families. Um, [00:15:33] Jeff: pedicure for sure. [00:15:35] Christina: They, they, well, well, if, if you’re my family, my, my, me and my mom and my dad watched Little Lo Lord, um, uh, Fon Roy, uh, Fale Roy, whatever the movie is called last night. So, and then we’re watching Christmas movies all day today. So that’s, that, that’s what we do. But I, I, I feel you, you’re, you’re, you’re not wanting to, you, you like your sister, but that’s not your, [00:15:56] Brett: we don’t have any tradition of watching movies. We will, [00:16:00] I will go over there Christmas morning and I will spend probably two, two and a half hours. Being inundated by small children and, uh, dealing with my brother’s sarcasm and judgemental nature, and my mom’s, uh, tactless interrogations. [00:16:21] Brett: And, uh, it’ll be, it’ll be fun. Um, my girlfriend of like six years now, um, she, her parents are both deceased. Um, and, and speaking of Textless interrogations, my mom, like the first time she hung out with Al alone , she’s like, so at what age, what age were you orphaned, [00:16:45] Christina: Oh my God. [00:16:46] Brett: the weird, the weirdest way to ask that question. [00:16:50] Jeff: Oh my [00:16:51] Christina: one of the, also like one of the shittiest I have to say, like, just, come on mom. I’ve read like, what the fuck? [00:16:58] Brett: is her mom died on like [00:17:00] Christmas Eve. So for her and her sister, it is. [00:17:04] Christina: this is, yeah, [00:17:05] Brett: Especially for her sister. Her sister dealt with that. Like Elle was the one who was like hospice care for their mother. Um, she, she had a lot more of a chance, I think to um, come to terms with and grieve like in the moment. [00:17:24] Brett: Uh, whereas her sister was a little more removed from it. And, and Christmas always fucks her up a little bit. Um, it’s, it’s gotten better, but, uh, but I don’t have any in-laws to visit, you know, I only have my own family that I have a very contentious relationship with, [00:17:42] Christina: right now. How now, how, how, how does L deal with being around your family? Because I know like [00:17:48] Brett: she does her best, but my parents make her angry cuz she can see. In our interaction, she can see how they fuck me up. Like she can see, she can see like [00:18:00] all the things that are painful for me. Like she sees where they come from and she’s very cordial, friendly. Um, she makes a real effort cuz she knows my relationship with my parents as important to me to some extent. [00:18:14] Brett: Um, and she will make the effort to, to be friends with them, but we will never go out of our way to hang out with them [00:18:25] Christina: No, no, that, no, that makes total sense. Yeah, cuz so my grant and I, it’s sort of a similar thing. I mean, not that his, uh, well only his father is, has passed now. Um, his mom as, as I talked with the last episode I was on, um, is not doing well, although, um, they are all together right now, um, in, in Florida. Um, but, um, I grew up like, not to say my, my family life was perfect because it certainly was not, but it’s a lot more like normal and, uh, or not normal, but like stereotypical. [00:18:57] Christina: Like, I, I don’t think anybody has normal families, but like I have a much [00:19:00] more stereotypical like, you know, two parent household thing and whatnot and, and, and my parents, like everybody’s parents fucks them up like mine, to be honest. Like, you know, [00:19:08] Brett: That’s course of life. Sure. [00:19:10] Christina: other things fucked me up more than my parents did. [00:19:13] Christina: But, um, so for him it, it, it’s like this, this weird thing where like if I, when I have to like be around like his family, sometimes it’s the same thing where like I see all of his traumas and stuff and I’m like, okay, how do we, how do we deal with this? You know? And, and, and wanting to be supportive. But so I, I totally understand. [00:19:31] Christina: Like, um, and then, uh, yeah, and I, but I definitely understand too the experience. Like my immediate family, I don’t have this, but, so my extended family, I definitely are similar to, to, to you Brett, where I’m just like, I don’t care anything. Like, at least with some of them anyway, I’m like, I need to hold my tongue or, and this might be different from you cuz like, you do want, like a relationship with, with your family. [00:19:56] Christina: There’s some members of my extended family who I do not give a shit. I [00:19:59] Brett: Oh [00:20:00] my, my entire mom’s side of the family I haven’t talked to in 20 years. [00:20:04] Christina: But like, but, but I have to, but, but, but I have to see them sometimes and then I have to like, you know, put on the face and I’m just gonna but it, but internally I’m like, you literally mean nothing to me. So this is awkward now because they’re are judgmental and, you know, like the type of people who [00:20:21] Brett: Yep. [00:20:22] Christina: make, make it difficult through that process. [00:20:24] Christina: I’m just, I’m just fortunate enough that, that my, uh, my parents are, are, are good. And my mom has even stopped asking me if I wanna go to church. So, [00:20:33] Brett: My two [00:20:33] Christina: I appreci. [00:20:36] Brett: they, they, for years, they’re like, do you want to at least come to like Christmas Eve service with us? And I did one year, probably like 15 years ago, I went to church with them and I walked out. Like it was so uncomfortable for me to be in an evangelical free church. And, and the way it made me feel was so awkward that I had to leave, um, , [00:21:00] I got angry. [00:21:02] Brett: Um, but yeah. Uh, I hit a soc, I hit like, I have a social time limit. Um, I’m really good and gregarious, even for about half an hour. Um, if I am forced into social situations for more than an hour, I get sarcastic and a little bit grumpy and mean. Um, and then the case of my family, that means like lashing out and saying like, intentionally saying of offensive things, uh, to try to like push buttons. [00:21:32] Brett: And that do, like, it doesn’t happen until I’ve like hit my time limit. Um, and Elsa actually, she understands like what’s happening and will like work to get me out of a situation if she senses. Like I’ve hit that like whiplash moment where I’m gonna start, start lashing out at people. But anyway, yeah, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be interesting. [00:21:58] Brett: It’ll be over soon. We [00:22:00] got a couple days. [00:22:01] Classic Lit [00:22:01] Jeff: I feel like we shouldn’t let this, uh, segment end without, uh, the Tolstoy line from the beginning of Anna Carina. All happy families are alike. Each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. the opening lines of that book, which I recently started rereading [00:22:19] Christina: I, so I can’t remember if I read it or not. I don’t, I might, I think I would’ve remembered that line. So I guess I did not read that in high school, but that’s amazing. And now I kind of wanna read the book to be honest. [00:22:30] Jeff: Well, also, even if, and anybody out there that did read it in high school, I, I did not read it in high school. I read it about two years ago, um, at like 46 or whatever that is. It’s like, it, it’s, it’s, it’s at a point of adulthood that you need to read that book. That’s where it really hits beautifully and wonderfully. [00:22:46] Jeff: Like, I don’t understand, I think of all the people I know that read that in high school and I think of that book and I’m like, how did you even have any kind of resonance at all with any of this shit? [00:22:54] Brett: Yeah, I tried to read it. I thought I tried read in fifth grade because I thought it would be [00:23:00] like smart, like I was, I was, I wanted to be smart, so I was like, I’m gonna read Tolstoy and I, it, it sevki and Tolstoy. I just, I I couldn’t, I couldn’t do it. [00:23:14] Jeff: At [00:23:14] Christina: Well, you were 11. [00:23:15] Jeff: Love it. Yeah. [00:23:16] Christina: were 11, so I mean, like, I, I did dickens then. Like Dickens you could do, right? Like I, I, I did Dickens then. Absolutely. Dickens is perfect for that stuff. Get some great [00:23:26] Brett: I was, I was really into like Anthony Burgess at the time. A mouthful of [00:23:33] Jeff: I read nothing, nothing on my own. Uh, all through high school and elementary school except Hammer the gods, the, the largely falsified biography of Fled Zeppelin. Um, I, you know, the reason I, what, what I did that worked so beautifully is like, I legitimately wanted to read all these kind of classics that seemed like just part of the cannon, that for some ridiculous reason, everybody was only reading in high school. [00:23:58] Jeff: And so I, I initially [00:24:00] wanted to just, I wanted to read Warren Peace really bad. I’d started it every New Year’s resolution for three years. And finally I put out ano, I didn’t say Warren Peace, but I put out a thing on Facebook. I’m like, who wants to read Tolstoy short stories? It was a, it was a manipulation. [00:24:13] Jeff: Uh, cuz I figured anyone who enjoyed the short stories, I could, I could get him at the right moment and be like, how about we do war and peace next? And sure enough, man, this group is such a beautifully random group. Um, and we read Warren Peace just over the course of a year. We took our time, we just like a little bit at a time, right? [00:24:30] Jeff: And then we were like, this is a great concept. And so we did fucking, um, we did Moby Dick, we did Crime and Punishment and a Karenina Frankenstein. Amazing. Frankenstein is [00:24:41] Christina: Oh, Frankenstein’s so good. [00:24:42] Jeff: Oh my God. It’s just [00:24:45] Christina: now. [00:24:45] Brett: Mary Shelly and have you guys read other Mary Shelly’s stuff? Like she’s brilliant. She’s like un under underrated, like for sure [00:24:56] Christina: Oh, 100% agreed. No. So no, Frankenstein is great and, and a [00:25:00] lot of those books are good. Now here’s my question for you, cuz this is the one that, and I’ve read a lot and, and I, I, I consider, I don’t consider myself like to be like a upscale, whatever, reader, but I read a lot and I read a lot of different things. [00:25:12] Christina: I have never been able to get through Ulysses and I have [00:25:14] Jeff: No, it’s on our list to try, [00:25:16] Christina: but, but, but, but, but Joyce kicks my ass every single time and, and I, like Ulysses just fucking kicks my ass. [00:25:27] Jeff: Right. Well, and I, [00:25:28] Christina: been able to get through it. [00:25:30] Jeff: and I want to be clear here. I’m not talking to you as like a clean fingernail, uh, liberal who’s done all the right things. I did not graduate high school, so I’m like, I’m, uh, I’m, I’m not going. Some people react that way. I was like, I’m not going for social capital. Like, I really wanted to read these books and they were all phenomenal. [00:25:45] Jeff: Now the experience I’m having, I’m curious if you guys have had What’s that? Go ahead, Christina. [00:25:50] Christina: No. I was gonna say now I haven’t gotten through Ulysses. I did read Finnegan’s Week and I liked [00:25:54] Brett: Oh my God, that’s a hard one. [00:25:55] Jeff: I’d love, I [00:25:56] Christina: It’s a hard one, but, but, [00:25:57] Brett: it’s a hard [00:25:58] Christina: but I, but I, I was able to get through Finnegan’s [00:26:00] Week, but Ulysses was the one where I was just like, I can’t, [00:26:02] Jeff: Two big ones for me that I’d like to read are Ulysses. Ulysses, and then obviously completely different era, infinite Jest. Um, [00:26:10] Brett: Oh, I haven’t read Infinite. Just [00:26:12] Jeff: because it’s [00:26:13] Brett: parents bought, my parents bought one of those, uh, like bookshelf, uh, like all the classics, right. And it looks like an encyclopedia set. And it has like, in gold, gold lettering, the names of all the authors. And I worked my way through that as a kid and a lot of, like, that was where I discovered how fucked up, um, Allison Wonderland. [00:26:35] Brett: Was the, like the actual book and Wizard of Oz that was in there, like the original version, like the actual book of Wizard of Oz was pretty fucked up. Like especially when you’re, especially when you’re like nine, 10 years old, like reading, reading obvious drug references through and through. Yeah. [00:26:55] Christina: totally, totally. And then, and then, and, and I don’t know, I don’t know if it’s ever been decided or not. [00:27:00] I’ve always taken the interpretation that, uh, the Allison Winterland guy was a total pedophile. Um, I don’t, I don’t think there’s any, I don’t, I don’t think there’s any interpretation. [00:27:09] Christina: I don’t think there’s any interpretation you can have of, of that book and of his life that is not, he was a complete pedophile. Um, [00:27:16] Brett: me that way as a nine year old, but I, I believe if I read it, if I read it as an adult, I would probably be like, oh shit. [00:27:24] Christina: well, I was in high school when I read it, and, and I, I was like, okay, this is, something’s not right here. And this is before everybody was like, You know, having the really problematic discourse we have now, you know, about like the groomer that’s groomer that No, like, I’m sorry. Like I read Alice Wonderland, I know there are a lot of people who defend Lewis Carroll, but I’m like, [00:27:46] Jeff: You’re not [00:27:46] Christina: bros fucked up bro was fucked up and in, in a way that wasn’t like, you know, ed Garlin Poe marrying his 13 year old cousin, which gross but not like out of context for the time. [00:27:58] Christina: Like, that was not an [00:28:00] uncommon thing to happen in, in the 18 hundreds. Whereas like Louis Carroll, I’m like, I don’t know bro. But yeah, you’re right. A lot of those kids books like Alice, uh, not Alison, no Wizard Oz, cuz that was a whole series of books. Right? And, um, [00:28:14] Brett: I, I read it as, I read it as one piece. I don’t know if it was [00:28:17] Christina: well, no, no, no. But they [00:28:18] Brett: serial. [00:28:19] Christina: no, no, no. [00:28:20] Christina: They had, they had one and then there were subsequent books [00:28:22] Brett: Oh, okay. Yeah, I [00:28:24] Christina: And, and, and so, and, and, and if you’ve ever seen, uh, return to Oz, which is the ill faded, uh, Francis Ford Coppola produced, uh, sequel, uh, with the far bulk, uh, from the eighties, um, you see how fucked up some of it gets. And, and that to me probably like, was more true to the, to the books than, um, than the the 1939, uh, MGM Classic [00:28:52] Jeff: You know something I realized, I, I had no idea that, um, Frankenstein was not the monster, [00:29:00] you know what I mean? Because that’s how, that’s how it became. But, and, and so I was reading Frankenstein and I’m thinking about all the ways in which he’s been, or Frankenstein’s been represented as Frankenstein, the monster, not the doctor. [00:29:11] Jeff: But then I realized Motley Crue was telling me all along, cuz they say he’s the one they called Dr. Feelgood, he’s gonna be your Frankenstein. So they’re telling me Frankenstein is the doctor. Right? How many times did I listen to that song And I still didn’t get it. I also never knew what happened at the end of Moby Dick. [00:29:28] Jeff: Uh, uh, the rest of my book club was laughing cause I’d be like, don’t spoil it. I don’t know what happens with the whale . But anyway, I, I just wanna say that having a group to do that with, um, was just incredible. And, and for, for that reason, I’ve read all these books that I always wanted to read and now I’m reading them the second time through and I’m finding for the first time, cause I’ve never read a book twice, I’m finding how much, um, Enjoyment. [00:29:54] Jeff: I get out of reading a book when the part of me that’s worrying and wondering about what’s gonna happen is [00:30:00] just not there. I already know what’s gonna happen, so I can just like go for the ride. And I’m finding that amazing. I know everyone else figured that out, probably in college or earlier, but it’s new for me. [00:30:10] Brett: So, uh, speaking of classic literature, I would like to take a quick sponsor break. [00:30:17] Christina: Yes. [00:30:20] Sponsor: Rocket Money [00:30:20] Brett: Uh, there, that is not actually a good segue because my, my read for Rocket Money is anything but classic literature. But a while back I subscribed to the robot Hallmark channel, uh, which is like BattleBots, but with Meat cutes. And, uh, every synopsis starts with Sparks fly when, uh, it was fun for a little while, but I, I got bored with the repetitive storylines, like it’s always the same plot with different robots and varying professions. [00:30:47] Brett: So I decided next month I’ll cancel it, but then I forgot and I kept paying for it for seven years. Um, I need a quick way to see all my subscriptions and cancel the ones I’m done with. That’s why I love using [00:31:00] Rocket Money now, formerly known as truebill. The app shows you all your subscriptions in one place and then cancels for you whatever. [00:31:07] Brett: You don’t still want. Rocket Money can even find subscriptions you didn’t know you were paying for. You may even find out you’ve been double charged for a subscription. I did actually find that out. Uh, I, I accidentally signed up in two different ways for back Blaze. Um, uh, I was paying a monthly and a yearly subscription and Rocket Money helped me find that. [00:31:29] Brett: Um, to cancel a subscription, all you have to do is press cancel and rocket money takes care of the. Get rid of useless subscriptions with Rocket Money now. Go to Rocket money.com/ Overtired. Seriously, it could save you hundreds of dollars per year. That’s Rocket money.com/ Overtired. Cancel your unnecessary subscriptions right now@rocketmoney.com slash Overtired. [00:31:54] Brett: If you’re no longer interested in sappy robot love stories, stop paying for them. [00:32:00] Check out Rocket money.com/ Overtired. [00:32:04] Jeff: Hmm, man, you got a whole life I don’t know about until you [00:32:09] Brett: Yeah, [00:32:09] Christina: I was gonna say [00:32:10] Brett: it’s, uh, it’s rich. It’s a rich [00:32:12] Jeff: some, for some people it, it takes booze to loosen ’em up a little bit, but for you, it just takes a sponsorship [00:32:18] Christina: it just takes sponsorship. Also though, like I feel like we do need like the robot, uh, hallmark channel though. [00:32:26] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:27] Brett: Well, so last time I made it about robot dominatrix is, but it turns out that’s actually a fucking thing. And, and some people didn’t know if I was joking or not. And so I tried, I tried to find, [00:32:41] Jeff: You googled this one a few times. [00:32:43] Brett: find the line where people would, it would obviously be a joke. Um, I did not actually Google Robot, robot Hallmark channel. [00:32:50] Brett: It does feel like that might be a thing that exists. Um, maybe in Japan. I [00:32:56] Jeff: I bet, I bet nobody’s asking ftx dude from him anymore, and I bet he’s [00:33:00] willing to try to, at least on the, on the sly, give some out [00:33:06] Brett: So, uh, uh, Jeff, do you wanna, who wants to do the, uh, the promo swap this week? [00:33:13] Jeff: Oh, doesn’t matter to me. I can do it. [00:33:16] Brett: Rock on. [00:33:21] Jeff: Yeah, no. Okay. [00:33:23] Christina: I like it. [00:33:24] Jeff: Thank you very much. [00:33:25] Christina: I’m a fan. [00:33:26] Promo Swap: Self Esteem Party [00:33:26] Jeff: Um, promo swap, self-esteem party. Do you ever look at your favorite comedians and think, wow, they’re so successful, they must be so confident? [00:33:35] Jeff: Well, guess what? They’re all hanging by a thread just like us. I would actually say in my experience, more than [00:33:41] Brett: Yeah, [00:33:42] Jeff: um, thanks to social media. Self-esteem is a huge part of our everyday experience. The same goes for people who make us laugh. Self-Esteem Party is the perfect blend of comedy and honesty Each week, comedian and self-proclaimed superstar, Alana Johnston, self [00:34:00] proclaim. [00:34:00] Jeff: That’s nice. I’m gonna start putting that in my deal. Self-Proclaimed Superstar interviews one of her show Biz Pals and dives right into the core of who they really are and how they feel about themselves. Alana playfully guides her friends through their own self-exploration while simultaneously cracking them up. [00:34:17] Jeff: Each guest reveals a different struggle with their own self-esteem, self-image, and self-care, and their powerful, relatable conversations interspersed with Alana’s exuberant comedy. So next time you’re feeling down on yourself, check out Self-Esteem Party and let Alana cheer you up. New episodes every tuesday@thesonarnetwork.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. [00:34:41] Brett: Thanks, Jeff. Actually, like I, I looked that podcast up before we started recording and I didn’t have time to listen to an episode, but it is one that I added to my podcaster because it looks, it, it, it does look both funny and I feel [00:35:00] like it’s a lot like our mental Health Corner , we’re, it’s a combination of, of things that make you laugh and things that, that you can relate to, so it looked good. [00:35:09] Jeff: Yeah, [00:35:10] Christina: No, it looks great. I really do hope that that, uh, um, offspring self-esteem is the theme song though, because that would be really, really good. [00:35:18] Brett: Did you ever hear Kay Flay do that? [00:35:21] Christina: Yes, we talked about it. I know. Yeah, we talked about it. It was fantastic. I was actually, [00:35:26] Brett: to that song that I never appreciated before [00:35:30] Jeff: awesome. [00:35:31] Christina: Play is just fantastic and she, she’s, she’s a, a, a bright discovery for me, so yeah, big fan. [00:35:37] Brett: you saying that. She’s a favorite of mine. Um, Christina, do you want to do the text expander? [00:35:43] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:35:43] Christina: I will definitely do the text expander read. So get your team communicating faster with a text expander and keep your team’s knowledge at their fingertips. Put information in the hands of your team outside of silos. Your team could be sending a unified message to your [00:36:00] customers without reinventing the wheel. [00:36:02] Christina: So here’s how it works. Store it. It means you can keep your company’s most used. Emails, phrases, messaging URLs, and more, right? Within text expander. Share it. Get your whole team access to all the content they need to use every day. And. Expand it. Deploy the content you need with just a few keystrokes on any device across any apps you use. [00:36:25] Christina: It’s that easy. Text Expander is available on Mac, windows, Chrome, iPhone, iPad, Overtired. Listeners get 20% off their first year. You can visit text expander.com/podcast for more info. That’s text expander.com/podcast. We are huge fans of Text Expander here at Overtired, and so whether you wanna use this, you know, individually or I think actually in a team scenario, this would be a great way of like having kind of a wiki kind of, uh, uh, but with everyone having access to it don’t have to, to, you know, remember what [00:37:00] little things needed to type in. [00:37:01] Christina: And, and Access Text Expander is, uh, is great for that. Text expander.com/podcast. [00:37:08] Y2K and You [00:37:08] Brett: Awesome. Cool. All right, so we got, we got a couple, a couple of topics. Uh, Jeff, Jeff has a book we do need to talk about. Um, I feel like that that might be the next, next topic on the list here. [00:37:24] Jeff: Yeah. I have, um, in my hands, I bought this in, I bought this in spring of 1999. It is a little booklet published by the Ney Reader where I would later serve as editor, but God, it was a lot wackier then, um, , and it is the Y2K Citizens Action Guide. First of all. Each of you, give me a little something of your memory of Y2K or the, the, the approach to it. [00:37:51] Jeff: Was it on your mind? Were you worried? Were you blowing it off? [00:37:55] Brett: I was excited. Like I was an anarchist kid. I was [00:38:00] looking forward to, uh, chaos, the world falling apart, and I was just going to drink and sort my way through it, and it was gonna be a really good time. And I was, I was a little disappointed. [00:38:15] Jeff: Did you worry about your own little computers [00:38:18] Christina: Oh. [00:38:18] Brett: I mean, no [00:38:20] Jeff: Me neither. [00:38:21] Christina: No, I did not. And, and I, I’d also, I’d set forward the clock a couple of times and saw that nothing happened. And yeah, I also even like reset like the CMOs like thing. At one point I was like, this is not a big deal. Um, but I do remember like my aunt, um, uh, who, who’s sadly, um, uh, no longer with us, but she, um, worked at a csx, the, the train company as a software engineer. [00:38:46] Christina: And she, uh, was, uh, I mean, she, she switched into other languages, but she got her start programming in Cobalt. [00:38:54] Brett: Yep. [00:38:54] Christina: so, and so her, her skills were very much in demand and like the train company, you know, [00:39:00] like they needed to update a billion old mainframes. And so my underlying like memory of that honestly was just like how much she was working around the clock to update all of those like mainframe systems from the seventies. [00:39:15] Christina: You know, to be able to, to accept, you know, for um, letter, uh, uh, for, for, for, for character rather, um, dates. But yeah, I mean it’s sort of weird cause what’s, what’s the next big one that’s gonna happen? It’s like 2036 or whatever, [00:39:29] Brett: Oh, I thought it was 30. 33. Is there one in 2026? [00:39:33] Christina: 2036 I believe is there, there’s a date problem. Um, and uh, cuz I think that there’s like a, yeah. Uh, cuz there’s like another, uh, the 2038 problem that, that’s what it is because it’s another bug in [00:39:46] Brett: Unix or Windows? [00:39:48] Christina: Unix, the problem existence systems measuring in Unix time, um, because the number of seconds entered since Unix epoch, which is 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 U [00:40:00] UTC on January 1st, 1970, because that’s stored in 32 bit as an integer. [00:40:06] Christina: The 32 bit namespace will be ex uh, will be ended in 2038. And so this is actually, [00:40:13] Jeff: more fat [00:40:13] Christina: a very similar. Right. So this is Well, no, that’ll be fine. But this is just like for systems [00:40:19] Jeff: No way, man. You [00:40:22] Christina: and, and it’s not fat 30 and it’s not fat 32 now it’s, it’s, it’s whatever it is, it’s, it’s, uh, X fat [00:40:28] Jeff: fat. Yeah, [00:40:29] Christina: or X fat. [00:40:30] Christina: That’s what it is. Yeah. But, but, um, it, anyway, it’s very, very similar to the year 2000 problem. But in this case, there is still, and you are shocked, right? Cuz we’re now, we’re, we’re 23 years past y2k, you would think that we would’ve learned some things, maybe gone back and started updating crucial systems to deal with, like, you know, like namespace problems. [00:40:51] Christina: No, we haven’t. And there are, there’s a ridiculous amount of infrastructure that’s very important that I don’t think anybody’s worried [00:41:00] that like the world’s gonna end or planes are gonna fall out of the sky. But a lot of billing systems and, and nuclear reactors and things like that. Oh, nuclear reactors at this point are all usually window space, actually. [00:41:11] Christina: So, uh, I think that they were okay, but there, there are a lot of other, yeah. Well, [00:41:17] Jeff: like you’re having a meltdown. [00:41:19] Christina: Ba basically, actually, actually, fun story. The reason that it took them so long, just brief tangent. The reason it took them so long to replace the terminal in the command line in, um, windows and, and now it’s, it’s, uh, you know, the Windows terminal is, uh, available in the, in the window in the Microsoft store, and you can download it and it’s great and it’s open source. [00:41:41] Christina: But the reason that they couldn’t just like pull it out and replace it years ago, and the reason they had to do it the way they did it is because a lot of, um, like oil refineries and, and nuclear things like rely on very specific quirks within older version of Windows. [00:42:00] And because Microsoft is actually committed to backward compatibility, unlike some companies, um, they can’t make those changes. [00:42:09] Christina: Uh, but anyway, needless to say, we’re gonna have the exact same thing. Like I, I’m, I’m looking forward to in 15 years, For us dealing with like Y Y2K 38, like, you know. [00:42:21] Jeff: Well, there’s actually, go ahead, Brett. [00:42:24] Brett: How do you feel about backwards compatibility? Because Apple, apple is able to introduce a lot of new, solid features because they are willing to say, oh, that was five years ago. That won’t work anymore. Uh, we were ditching, in fact, our computers from 10 years ago can’t use our latest operating system. We, we don’t care. [00:42:48] Brett: And that gives them the opportunity to push forward, in my opinion. Um, sure. It’s annoying, especially if you want to keep, if you wanna keep a 20 12 [00:42:57] Christina: Well, well, no, it was expensive. [00:43:00] Well, it’s expensive. Here’s the thing, my opinion, I think that it’s fine for consumer devices to have that approach and, and I do think that Apple has an okay track record, although they’ve gotten worse and I do think that it is unfortunate. , you know, they, they’ve made decisions to not support things. [00:43:19] Christina: Maybe it’s because they, they don’t feel like they can offer full support, but there’ve also been ones that feel very arbitrary, like, this fits the minimum specs, but we’re not going to allow it to be updated. And, and people are able to find shims and get it working. I’m okay with it on a consumer level, although I do have questions about device preservation and whatnot, which is separate. [00:43:36] Christina: But I think when you’re talking about enterprise, and I think when you’re talking about industrial use cases, I think it’s a completely different scenario. And to Jeff’s point, from a cost perspective, I don’t think you can necessarily expect, you know, systems that, that work to constantly be, you know, refactored and, and updated just because we wanna introduce the latest features. [00:43:58] Christina: Like, I think that’s, that’s a cop [00:44:00] out. Now, is there a happy medium between being where you are forced to, Have a lesser experience because you have to support things from, from 50 years ago. I’m sure there is, but I, to me, I don’t think you can compare, like Apple has no presence and will never have any presence in industrial enterprise. [00:44:21] Christina: They never will. And they, they are a consumer company through and through, so they don’t have to worry about those problems. But I think that that, and that’s one of the reasons why they never had a chance in the server market and why they would never be able to do anything in a lot of the industrial markets because they like to move too fast. [00:44:39] Christina: So that, that’s kind of my take. I think that there are trade offs to both [00:44:44] Brett: I always appreciate your insight. You’re smart. [00:44:46] Jeff: I just remember my mom just like bouncing back and forth to these cities and it was just like all they met about for a whole year. Just like ki especially, it’s the government, you know, so they’re just, It’s going crazy. They’re crazy, they’re nervous. I am rambling like a motherfucker.[00:45:00] [00:45:00] Jeff: Um, can I just tell you about this amazing, uh, uh, financial opportunity we missed out on? This is from my Y2K guide. It says, item Colon on September 14th, 1998, the former c e o of United Press International, James Adams, no kidding, announced the creation of the world’s largest Y2K website. In order to sound a public wake up call dubbed Y2K today. [00:45:28] Jeff: And here’s from the promo material. It will feature a daily feed of some 500 stories from a special reporting team. What plus wire reports. It’s , it’s time the public worldwide had access to accurate and timely information. Said, said Adams, did you hear any, does this, did you ever hear of this? Because where are these, where’s this story? [00:45:48] Jeff: I want to know the story of this operation. [00:45:50] Brett: this book came out pre y2k. [00:45:53] Jeff: Yeah. Spring 1999. [00:45:54] Brett: Okay. [00:45:56] Jeff: So that was a 1998 effort by the former U P i, [00:45:59] Brett: So [00:46:00] this book is not ironic. This book is actually saying, [00:46:03] Jeff: No, this book is like, it’s coming. Here’s, it’s called the Y2K Citizens Action Guide. So it has a whole section on how to organize your community. I mean, honestly, when I read it now, it looks like a great plan for the early days of covid. [00:46:16] Jeff: Um, it’s like, buy your toilet paper up. They even say that, [00:46:19] Brett: a disaster preparedness [00:46:21] Jeff: it’s a disaster. Yeah. And then it has sort of like how to lobby your politicians to care more, um, about Y2K and all this crazy shit, which we haven’t even explained. I mean, h what is the simplest [00:46:33] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:46:34] Jeff: what it was? [00:46:35] Christina: Okay. So in, um, back in, in olden times, in, in early kind of, you know, Unix and, and, and, uh, other systems, a lot of the, the way that they would code in dates was, would be just to use the last two characters, uh, of the year. So, so the only integers you would have would be, you know, like, like, you know, like 77 0, or, or, or nine. [00:46:58] Christina: Nine. Well, when the [00:47:00] clock hit January 1st, UTC time, you know, the year 2000. There was a big concern about what would happen to those systems when the clock was going to be reset, and when you’re going to now have to go from, from two into zeros to four. And, um, so there was a lot of strum and drum about, uh, banking systems, aviation systems, uh, nuclear reactors, uh, and, and, and other things, many of which, like the infrastructure again, was like built in the seventies, uh, and hadn’t necessarily been kept up well, uh, whether or not those things would function. [00:47:33] Christina: Uh, and, um, so you had, uh, a mass of, uh, engineers, uh, usually in, in no longer invoke languages, having to be like dispersed out to issuing patches and update the code, um, to use, uh, four integers rather than two. [00:47:51] Jeff: Yeah. So crazy. It’s just this little bit baked in, right? And it’s not, not nothing . So if you look at, [00:48:00] if you look at the Wikipedia page, there are some super interesting, uh, reported problems that have been verified. The first one was that I loved was 150 Delaware Lottery reino slot machine stopped working. [00:48:12] Jeff: Shit. But right next, but right next to that, this is street straight from the Wikipedia page. Okay. So right, right after that, as a direct result of the Y2K glitch at midnight, computers at a ground control station ceased processing information from an unspecified number of spy satellites. The military implemented a contingency plan by 3:00 AM nice work and restored all normal functionality, and the empire was saved. [00:48:38] Jeff: Um, . And then there’s the last one that’s on here that was interesting was the US Naval Observatory, which runs the like master clock that keeps the country’s official time for just a moment. Gave the date, uh, on its website as January 1, 19 100. [00:48:54] Brett: Okay. So I mean, I think based on surveys we’ve done, most of our [00:49:00] listeners were sentient in in the year 2000, but, but for anyone who was born, like if you were born in the nineties, you may not have fully been cognizant by the time 2000 [00:49:15] Christina: Of like, of like Oh, oh. Even. Even, yeah. Even if you were, say born in 1990, you’re like 10 years old, you might not have realized, like you might not remember what a big deal it was in [00:49:26] Brett: panic, the sh the sheer panic, the media ran with these stories that literally Armageddon was gonna happen, uh, when all of these computers fritzed out [00:49:39] Jeff: Nonstop, nonstop coverage. Probably the 500 articles that U P I guy said his apparent his team’s gonna do that. That was definitely happening. It just wasn’t. His team [00:49:49] Christina: Oh yeah. No, no. It was, well, well, it it, I was talking about this before, uh, we started recording, but if anybody wants to watch, um, I think one of the, the best episodes of, um, [00:50:00] uh, television about this whole phenomenon, it’s also one of the best episodes of what is, in my opinion, one of the best animated sitcoms ever. [00:50:07] Christina: Uh, the, the, the season four, um, holiday episode of King in the Hill called Millennium, um, deals with this exact same thing where, where Hank, um, gets kind of caught up be, be because of some computer issues. He’s, he’s basically brought into the Dale, who’s his conspiracy theorist, friend’s side of being worried that. [00:50:29] Christina: The whole grid is going to go down and the systems are going to be overtaken and things are gonna be really terrible. Uh, when the millennium hits and, um, uh, basically ruins Christmas for the family, um, it, it ends up having a nice ending, but it’s a very, very, very funny episode that I think really encapsulates and, and the great thing about it is that it aired on December 19th, 1999. [00:50:51] Christina: So it was written, uh, you know, uh, probably in the early, you know, uh, uh, uh, 1999 because, you know, they have to do several months [00:51:00] of, of animation production. Um, and uh, it really did kind of predict exactly, uh, a kind of the, the, the fury and, and kind of the insanity that was happening. And then be the fact that like nothing happened. [00:51:13] Jeff: I mean, they were saying planes might fall out [00:51:15] Brett: Yeah, [00:51:16] Christina: I know, I know [00:51:18] Jeff: I actually remember opening the door and being like, I don’t see any That was intense . But I, I was like, you, Brett, I was in something of a nylas stage. I had been, I had been going back and forth to Iraq, uh, and, and seeing like in the, the effects of what happens when our country, what happened, uh, when our country bombed most of their infrastructure and then, uh, and then laid sanctions on them so they couldn’t rebuild. [00:51:46] Jeff: Like I was already, yeah. Half, half of my time was already in a post Y2K environment and I was like, fuck it man. Just bring it [00:51:54] Brett: bring it. [00:51:57] Christina: Yeah. Um, I, I, I mean, I, [00:52:00] I was, I, I, I was not at all concerned, but I was, I was like 15. So it, there was, you know, it just, it seemed overblown to me, but yet we didn’t know it was gonna happen. So there was this bit of excitement that was like, well, maybe some shit really will go down, right? Like, I don’t think it ever occurred to. [00:52:15] Brett: you gotta consider the possibility [00:52:18] Christina: Totally. I was sort so as always with me, I was in for the drama, but I also like, I I, I, I, I was all about the drama. I was like, oh, hell yeah. But I was also like not, I don’t think it’d ever even occurred to me that planes would actually fall out of the sky. Um, I was just like, I, I, I just, I had faith in our institutions that I perhaps should not have had that. [00:52:38] Christina: I was like, no, clearly the f a a is is gonna have this shit under control. The Boeing and Airbus people are gonna have this shit under control. Like, it didn’t even occur to me that they wouldn’t, but it, you know, there was always, there was the drama and the intrigue of, well, what’s gonna happen? You know? [00:52:54] Jeff: right. [00:52:55] Christina: like my computer, I was, I was on the internet, I think like when it happened, I was either on the [00:53:00] internet or I was drinking underage, one or the other. But, um, uh, regardless, like I, you know, got back home. I think, I think I was drinking underage, but I think I got back home and, um, You know, everybody like my computer was fine. [00:53:15] Christina: I was like cool. I was like on I C Q or Ale Instant Messenger, you know, probably like chatting with people. Be like happy, happy 2000. Everyone like [00:53:24] Jeff: Yeah, right. [00:53:26] Christina: yeah, [00:53:27] Brett: All right. We’re, we’re coming up on an hour, but I want to give, Jeff, I want to give you a chance to, is there, are there any other pearls of wisdom you wanna drop from the citizens guide? [00:53:38] Jeff: No, just that it’s interesting to read it now and think back. Um, you know, that wasn’t too far before September 11th, which is a, an unfathomable event similar to what we were describing in y2k. [00:53:52] Christina: oh, okay. Actually this is what I was worried about now, now that I have memories back. Okay. Cuz I was in Model un, so I was 15, 16, [00:54:00] so I [00:54:00] Jeff: You’re in Model un Nice. [00:54:02] Christina: Yes. So I was actually concerned because I had been studying OSA Bin Laden and the Taliban. I was actually concerned that he was going to bomb times Square. [00:54:12] Jeff: Oh, I remember that. That’s right. [00:54:14] Christina: So that, that was, that was like my big concern was actually way less the, the things calming out of the sky and the Y2K of it all, but more that it was going to be a time that like massive terrorism activity was going to happen. [00:54:29] Jeff: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. [00:54:31] Christina: So, so me as, like, me as like a a, you know, you were obviously aware of those things too because you were doing, you know, you were in Iraq and you were, you know, um, in those parts of the world around that stuff. [00:54:42] Christina: But most people, Certainly no one else my age. Um, I don’t even think the other, uh, model UN kids were like that concerned. Certainly not my [00:54:53] Brett: that wasn’t [00:54:54] Christina: or, or other people. I was gonna say most people were not even thinking that at all. But yeah, my concern was never about like, [00:55:00] oh, the infrastructure is gonna go down. [00:55:02] Christina: I was like genuinely worried that as, so Bin Laden was going to bomb the Times Square. Like that’s what I thought was gonna happen. [00:55:08] Jeff: I’m seeing a headline in the newspaper model UN Warns of Possible Times Square Bombing [00:55:15] Christina: Well, okay. I did write an essay that fall fucking terrible. It’s called Don’t Hate Me because I’m a Terrorist. Hate Me because I’m Confused. Bio. So Bin Laden, that was a parody sat satirical essay about how he was like mad at the Bush family and that all of his stuff like stemmed from like never feeling good enough in, in high school [00:55:38] Jeff: contracts. Oh, [00:55:38] Christina: again. [00:55:39] Christina: Again, I, again, I was again. Exactly. Again, I was 15 years old. So this is. . I [00:55:45] Jeff: you’re like you, you’re like, email to your editor from aol.com. Lemme take a crack at this [00:55:49] Christina: we get no like, like, like two, like two year, two years, two years later, I’m like, oh my God, Christina, this is no longer funny and satirical at all. Like, please no one find this essay, [00:56:00] because it’s gonna really come across differently than it did in the fall of 1999. But like, yeah, [00:56:07] Jeff: You’re like, thank God Angel Fire crashed. [00:56:10] Christina: yeah, exactly. [00:56:11] Grapptitude [00:56:11] Brett: Should we, uh, should we do some gratitude? [00:56:14] Jeff: Sheila. [00:56:15] Brett: You guys, I have my gratitude. I know it’s a holiday weekend. You guys might, you guys might not be down. Uh, we’ll see. Um, but [00:56:24] Christina: no, no. Start us off. [00:56:25] Brett: so it wasn’t too long ago I talked about affinity, uh, products as, as a gratitude. Um, but I recently got back into astrophotography. Um, and I use a service called i telescope.net, which lets me remotely control about 24 different telescopes around the world. [00:56:49] Brett: And, and I can set them up and I can take a bunch of, uh, different color, uh, filter photos, and then you have to [00:57:00] composite them and color balance them and, and turn like basically mult multiple plates into a single color image. And. I had always used some shitty Java apps to do this. Um, it turns out that affinity photo. [00:57:22] Brett: Uh, and Affinity Photo two now have astrophotography features and it has blown me away how I’m able to stack. I can take like five exposures from each color lens, stack them together, create something where I can just do basic, like turn them all into add, add, add layers. Like when you set your, uh, opacity type, uh, change it to add, add colorization filters to them and come out with some pretty fantastic images. [00:57:53] Brett: And I’ll, I’ll drop a link in the show notes to a blog post I wrote about this, but, um, [00:58:00] it is, it, it’s fantastic and it’s something Photoshop can’t do. It’s like somebody, somebody took the time to add full, a full astrophotography persona. Two affinity photo as well as filters that do things like removing background and reducing excess stars in. [00:58:25] Brett: Because when you shoot a long exposure of a nebula, you’re gonna pick up thousands of stars that, that get, kind of get in the way of viewing the nebula itself because, you know, you’ve done a, an hour long exposure and so like affinity photo has filters that will just automatically detect excess stars and remove them from the photo. [00:58:49] Brett: Uh, it is, it’s just, it’s outstanding. It, it, it, it’s bizarre to me that a, an app that was designed for [00:59:00] photo manipulation put this much effort into what is very much a niche area of, of photo editing. [00:59:10] Jeff: That’s amazing. [00:59:11] Christina: That’s awesome. I, I, uh, I, I’m huge fan of, of the Affinity products as we’ve mentioned before. Uh, also we will note if you’re interested in like trying them out, they still have a deal right now where the US price, I think is like a hundred dollars for, to get the version two of all three of their apps. [00:59:30] Christina: Um, and now it works. It, it’s a universal license. It’ll work across platforms, Mac, windows, and um, iPad os. So if you’re looking for something that is gonna get you, at least in my experience, about 90% of the way that Photoshop and Illustrator do, like, there’s still gonna be some like, look, if you’re doing certain professional things where you’re having to exchange files, I’m gonna be completely candid with you. [00:59:53] Christina: You’re probably still going to need to have a creative, um, suite, um, a creative Cloud account. Um, but if you [01:00:00] are just doing like the sort of stuff that, that Brett is talking about, or if you’re wanting to get into photo editing, or if you’re wanting to do other types of, um, you know, [01:00:08] Brett: publishers. Amazing app too. Like [01:00:11] Christina: Okay. I haven’t used that. [01:00:12] Brett: if you have to share, if someone, if someone needs you to share an InDesign file with them, you’re gonna need your creative suite. But if you are, if you are creating for print and you need to send to a professional printer or you’re just creating your own to print at home, like publisher is everything I’ve ever used in InDesign I can do in publisher. [01:00:35] Brett: It’s really good. [01:00:36] Christina: That’s awesome. Yeah. So, uh, I, I, anyway, I can’t recommend those apps highly enough. Um, people, uh, are still complaining about the fact that after five plus years, you know, they, they had the temerity to, to have a very good upgrade plan and to not move to a subscription when they could. And like, look, because if Affinity said we wanna [01:01:00] charge five or $10 a month for our suite of apps, I would pay it because, because, because I, I, I get more out of it than, um, I do, um, like frankly the, the Adobe Suite. [01:01:13] Christina: Cause at this point I’ve actually canceled my personal Adobe, um, uh, subscription and I just rely on my work one, which I did not do for a long time. Um, but I’m now at the point where I’m so frustrated with some of the things that Adobe has done, and I do like some other tools, but I’m so frustrated with some of the decisions they’ve made and, and frankly also the frequency of the updates where you never know, like what feature you’re going to have or what, what version you’re at or whatnot. [01:01:38] Christina: That I’m kind of like, you know what? For personal editing of stuff, if I don’t have to collaborate with others, I’m, I’d much rather use the, the affinity tools. They’re also really good on iOS. [01:01:49] Brett: And to be fair, like a, uh, like affinity photo can import and export, uh, p s d files, uh, so you’re not completely cut off [01:02:00] from the Adobe world by using affinity photo. Um, but there are like, sometimes layer translations don’t come across the same. And each, each app has its own version of like live filters and non-destructive filters that don’t necessarily translate between the apps. [01:02:18] Brett: But for your basic, for a more basic P s D file, you can export [01:02:24] Christina: Oh, yeah. [01:02:24] Brett: file and send it out. [01:02:26] Christina: totally, totally. But it’s, it’s sort of like, you know, using like open office to interact with Microsoft Office files, right? Or or to use, if you’re trying to use pages or, or, or Excel. Yeah. Or, or if you’re trying to use, you know, like, like pages or numbers to open like Excel or, or Word files, right? [01:02:41] Christina: Like there are gonna be slight differences. So it’s just one of those things, if it’s for professional reasons that, that’s what I’m saying, like if you have to collaborate with other people, but if it’s a basic file that you’re just needing to open that you’ve downloaded off the internet, or if, you know, you just wanna need to make a quick change, you know, to an InDesign or a Illustrator or a Photoshop file.[01:03:00] [01:03:00] Christina: Yeah, I’m, I’m a big fan. Cosign that, but that’s also also the, your, uh, your photography stuff. That’s very, very cool. Do you, do you have one? Do you have one, Jeff? [01:03:11] Jeff: Yeah, I’ve been, I’ve been playing with, so I’m an obsidian user, but just kind of a light obsidian user. I mostly use it to do daily notes. Um, but they, um, they just added something called Canvas, which is like a, you know, infinite canvas on which you can organize your notes. Almost like a mind map or exactly like a mind map. [01:03:31] Brett: Oh. [01:03:32] Jeff: and I am just starting to play with it. I love the idea cause I’m someone in mind maps who has a tendency to make long notes. But I’m curious, like if I’m looking at it strictly as how would I create a note so that it would be useful in this canvas functionality, it’s kind of opened up my mind a little bit in terms of how I want to, or, or like to organize information. [01:03:54] Jeff: I’ve talked about this on the show a lot where like I just, I really appreciate a tool that causes me [01:04:00] to think differently about information or taxonomies or whatever else because my head is always just full of things banging around out of order and, uh, and so any, any time I can kind of put something in order and it allows you to just drag a note on, or if you have images stored, you can just drag an image on. [01:04:18] Jeff: Um, and uh, I think it’s just a really cool functionality and I just appreciate that obsidian kind of. I mean, even it’s not so like they have this great community, um, who build all sorts of extensions for obsidian, but they also are, are, they’re not just like resting on that, right? Which like can, which a company can do. [01:04:37] Jeff: Sometimes they’re like continuing to give this like kind of backbone to obsidian as people then kind of come in and build off of that. And I just, I’ve been really impressed with that and I still haven’t, isn’t that cool? Are you playing with it? [01:04:50] Brett: I’m watching this video and it’s basically, it’s curio inside of obsidian. [01:04:55] Jeff: It’s crazy. Yeah, it’s crazy. Um, so anyway, just kudos [01:05:00] to them for continuing to not only like kind of hold space for a wonderful community of users, but also for just continuing to do things that surprise me. [01:05:08] Jeff: Um, so that’s me Obsidian canvas. [01:05:11] Brett: Nice. [01:05:12] Christina: Yeah, I, uh, I saw that on Hacker News, but I hadn’t had a chance to check it out, so that is awesome. Um, so my pick, so I was, I was held up between two. Um, I do wanna, so I’ll, I’ll, because it’s the end of the year, I’ll, I’ll give. A brief kind of, uh, thing to both, so the first one, pixel Meter Pro. So speaking of alternatives to Photoshop, um, they announced a, a new version of their app, which now has like a, an AI filter to do D banding. [01:05:41] Christina: And, um, it’s really, really impressive. So, um, basically it’ll get rid of color, it’ll get rid of color banding from photos and, um, pixel meter was, was one of the first, you know, cause it’s a Mac only app. And, uh, it was also on, on, on iPad, I think, you know, used a lot of, like G P U, the power of the G P U to do a lot of [01:06:00] filter effects. [01:06:00] Christina: And, and they, I think they might even been a little bit ahead of Photoshop on, on some of that because they were using like the way they were using like open GL and core image and stuff. Um, and so the demanding, uh, feature is now part of Pixel Meter Pro. Uh, I also think that app is 50% off right now. So if you’re looking for other alternatives, that’s another one. [01:06:18] Christina: I have both Affinity photo and pixel meter. I’ll be honest, I tend to use, uh, uh, acorn for basic things. Affinity photo for. [01:06:26] Brett: you got [01:06:27] Christina: Advanced stuff. And then, and then I’ll go into, um, uh, Photoshop if I have to do something very specific, um, that, that’s usually like, like my, my hierarchy there. But, um, but Pixel Meter is a great app and so I wanted to mention that. [01:06:40] Christina: And then the other one I wanted to mention because I just realized that it, it’s just been added to setup, is Craft, which is, um, a really great, it’s kind of like a notion alternative, but it’s, uh, they have a web app and, and a Mac and, and and iOS apps. And it’s just a really great way of, of creating, um, formatted documents. [01:06:59] Christina: So, [01:07:00] uh, honestly, the, it, it’s very similar to Notion, but I, I like it better than Notion. And so, uh, so it, it’s, it’s craft.do is is the website and it’s now part of, um, setup. I’m not exactly sure what plan comes with it on setup cuz I already pay for craft, [01:07:15] Brett: Setup requires that you unlock all features. So if they’re on set, then you’re getting whatever quote [01:07:22] Jeff: they do. Interesting. At least that makes sense, I guess. Okay. [01:07:26] Christina: Well, that’s awesome. That’s really cool. So, um, so I guess you probably get the, like the $5 a month plan is what I’m guessing, um, from, uh, from craft, uh, which is, which is great if you’re a setup subscriber. Um, and, uh, but, but craft is, is really, really good. Um, and, uh, you know, let’s you like, kind of create an Instructured documents, but I’m, I’m, I’m a big fan of it. [01:07:48] Christina: So tho those are my [01:07:49] Brett: Obsidian craft, all these things that didn’t exist when I should have released Envy Ultra and have diluted the market to the extent where [01:08:00] Envy Ultra has to serve a very niche purpose at this point because there’s so many great note-taking apps out there, [01:08:06] Jeff: sure. [01:08:07] Christina: Well, well, what happened, Brett, is that none is good, but, but what happened is that everybody loved, uh, uh, envy, alt so much that they had to like build and in, in many cases, spend probably millions of dollars building a [01:08:20] Jeff: are burying me. [01:08:26] Brett: Uh, speaking of text expander, my most used text expander snippet has been, uh, because I, I, we talked Jeff about me doing the automators episode, and I also mentioned in my, the blog post that we did the lightning round from last week, uh, I mentioned if anyone really wants on the envy ultra beta, uh, just email [01:08:51] Jeff: I use it every day. [01:08:52] Brett: the envy ultra.com email address. [01:08:56] Brett: Uh, and I have sent out at this point [01:09:00] over 200, uh, invites to the envy ultra beta. And if it weren’t for tax expander, oh my God, that would be such a pain in the. [01:09:11] Christina: Oh my God. Yeah. I can’t even imagine. Yeah. Cause with Texas Banner, you can basically do like a red X to do like a, um, a what, what is it called? What, what’s, what’s the print? Um, mail merge. Is that what it’s called? The feature. [01:09:23] Brett: Yeah, I don’t use that. I just like, I get the, I get the request in email. Uh, I hit reply, I type N V U B. Sometimes I’ll insert a a like, Hey Jeffrey. And [01:09:38] Jeff: Hey, that’s me. He’s talking to me. [01:09:40] Brett: only, only one person out of over 200 so far has written back to say, that was obviously a text expender snippet that you just sent me. And I’m like, of course it is. [01:09:51] Jeff: Yes. It’s none of your business. [01:09:53] Christina: it’s, it’s like, yes. Uh, would, would do, do you have the time to type this in manually? I’m so sorry. I [01:09:59] Jeff: I didn’t [01:10:00] personalize this to, uh, you personally. I don’t [01:10:02] Christina: I, I, I’m, I’m so sorry that this was not artisanally organically crafted like by noms, like, [01:10:09] Brett: What do you want from me? [01:10:11] Jeff: not like you were using like a, a signature, [01:10:13] Brett: I think that guy, I think he was saying it out of appreciation though. I think he was like, oh yeah, I know. I know you love Text Expander and I see you using it and I appreciate that this is happening. [01:10:25] Jeff: Do you know what’s been happening in my head ever? Ever since you said whatever. I’ve been hearing [01:10:31] Christina: Ha ha. [01:10:33] Brett: N vb. Oh, alright. [01:10:36] Christina: See, see, there you go. Get, get get, get boys yours involved. Have a, have a, have a culture club, um, riff on this. Totally. I love it. [01:10:46] Brett: All right. Hey, you guys have a Merry Christmas. Are we allowed to say that? I keep forgetting [01:10:53] Jeff: I [01:10:53] Christina: we’re allowed to [01:10:53] Jeff: this circle we’re all Christmas. [01:10:57] Christina: Well, Merry Christmas also. Awesome, but it’s also the week of [01:11:00] Hanukkah, so happy Hanukkah [01:11:01] Brett: Yeah, happy holidays in general. Kwanza, Hanukkah, you know, like there’s a reason. Happy Holidays, it’s an accepted term, but nobody ever made it illegal to say Merry Christmas. So all of the things to all of the people and to all of you guys. Enjoy your, enjoy your holidays. Um, I look forward to talking next week. [01:11:23] Christina: Likewise, take care of yourselves. [01:11:25] Brett: Get some sleep. [01:11:26] Jeff: get some sleep. [01:11:27] Christina: Get some sleep. [01:11:29] Jeff: Sleep. Are you awake? [01:12:00]

Christina is out with COVID and we hope she gets well real soon! Brett and Jeff duet on this episode and go into the weeds with Brett’s bookmarklets and PopClip extensions. Brett is also forced into a lightning round where he tells us about his favorite apps of 2022. All that AND a cameo from Elle! Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim 50% off any new system. Show Links Are bookmarklets (favlets?) dead? PopClip Brett’s PopClip extensions Jay Miller’s video on YAML-based PopClip extensions Mac Menu Bar: A Curated Directory of 750+ Apps Brett’s Favorites 2022 – Personal Projects Brett’s Favorites 2022 – Mac Apps Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett’s Favorite Apps of 2022! [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Jeff: Hello? Uh, [00:00:06] Brett: People. Hello people. [00:00:10] Jeff: I didn’t have a bit in my back pocket. I was looking for like, hello, Metro area, uh, commuters. [00:00:15] Brett: Hello Metrosexuals. [00:00:17] Jeff: Uh, yeah. Hello, all you people, the commuters and the sexuals. Um, this is the Overtired podcast. I am. One of your hosts, Jeff Severances Gunzel, and I’m here with Brett Terpstra and Christina Warren has Covid and is not with us this week. [00:00:35] So pour one out. Uh, fauci was right. Uh, . What else do we wanna say? Hashtag something. Um, anyway, [00:00:46] Brett: Elon was wrong. [00:00:47] Jeff: Elon. Elon is wrong. [00:00:49] Brett: DeSantis was wrong. [00:00:51] Jeff: Man. What? Why are we letting all these people’s names onto our podcast They take up a lot of space once you, once you let ’em in. [00:00:59] Brett: yeah. [00:01:00] Jeff: all right. Everyone’s banished, but you and me and the, and the spirit of Christina. [00:01:04] Hi, Brett. [00:01:05] Brett: Hi, Jeff. [00:01:06] Jeff: How’s it going? [00:01:07] Brett: It’s uh, it’s good. I am, I am waiting on my, So it’s been snowing a lot. I don’t know how much you guys have up in the cities, but we’ve gotten about a foot now and uh, I have an electric snow blower that is not great for clearing wet snow. And, uh, so we’re at the mercy of our neighbor with like, uh, his four wheeler with a plow on it, and he comes and digs us out, but on his schedule, not ours. [00:01:37] Jeff: Right, right. [00:01:37] Brett: Um, and Elle’s car is a Sonata, and I don’t know if you’ve ever driven a sonata in [00:01:44] Jeff: Yeah, that’s a, is it a four wheel drive? Sonata? [00:01:46] Brett: yeah. Right. It’s a front wheel drive, four cylinder sonata that does not handle snow at all. Like the slightest, the slightest layer of slick on the road, and it serves fishtailing. So when it snows, she drives my Audi. [00:02:03] All Audis are all wheel drive with anti-lock brakes and they’re amazing winter vehicles. Um, like you can drive my Audi in a foot of snow and not even realize it’s slippery. Like it just handles it. Just handles it. Uh, so on days like this, she takes my car to. And I stay home without transportation. So she is currently responsible for picking up my vivance today, and I am not taken my vivance yet. [00:02:35] I am, I am at her mercy, uh, when she is able to pick up my vivance and drop it off. So I’m a little, I’m a little dead pan right now. Um, I’m, I’m lacking the, I’m lacking my usual, my usual Terpstra. [00:02:51] Jeff: I don’t know. You got a little pep in your step, little dip in your hip. [00:02:54] Brett: I got new glasses. [00:02:56] Jeff: new glasses. Congratulations. Where did you get those? [00:02:59] Brett: Oh, from Zenni Optical. [00:03:01] Jeff: That’s like a mail order thing that I don’t know about. [00:03:03] Brett: Yeah, like I got my pupillary distance measured last time I had an eye appointment. [00:03:09] Jeff: is none of my business [00:03:14] Brett: And, uh, and got glasses fitted and they fit perfectly and they got the, they got the blue light blocking, and I gotta say, I, I, I love them. And it was like a hundred bucks total for like the whole package with clip on sunglasses and everything. [00:03:30] Jeff: Ooh, clip [00:03:30] Brett: Yeah. Fancy, right? [00:03:32] Jeff: do you keep those fucking things when you’re [00:03:33] Brett: I don’t know yet. They’re, right now they’re in my bathroom cabinet, but [00:03:38] Jeff: That’s not where you need [00:03:39] Brett: I’ll probably keep them in my car. [00:03:41] Jeff: Yeah, maybe somewhere, at least on the way outside. [00:03:44] Brett: Like, I seriously considered the transition lenses, but you have to make a choice. Either you get lenses that go completely clear when you’re inside, which is a must for me. Like I can’t stand talking to people that look like they’re, their glasses look like they’re on their way out. [00:04:03] Jeff: Yeah. Right, right, right. It’s not polite. It’s not polite to send those kind of signals. It’s not presence. [00:04:08] Brett: I saw a meme that just said transition lenses that get darker the longer somebody talks to you, But so the those though do not activate when you’re inside your car, behind your leg. UV protection, um, windshield. So I need, like, the only time I need my glasses to turn into sunglasses is when I’m driving. [00:04:33] And so I ne and it was in either or, and neither of them, if they ever can combine glasses that will activate behind a UV windshield and go completely clear when you’re indoors, then I will buy transition [00:04:49] Jeff: about like a button on the side that’s like you’re in control, you know? [00:04:54] Brett: and, and it turns on like one way mirrors like mirror shade. [00:04:57] Jeff: Sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I, um, I just had my, uh, I just had my eyes examined. Uh, my annual, I examine, I am getting progressive lenses. That’s right. Goddam it. And I’m turning 48 in about a month. So it all works. It all works. We got a bag of chips. [00:05:16] Brett: Get, no, I got a bag of meds. [00:05:19] Jeff: Ooh. A bag of mess. Did El just come in, [00:05:21] Brett: Al just came in [00:05:22] Jeff: Al, come. [00:05:24] Brett: at, Hey, wait, Al come back. She’s coming back. [00:05:27] Jeff: Okay. [00:05:28] Brett: You get to watch me take my, my vivance live on air. Hi. [00:05:33] Jeff: Hey, Al. Say, say hello to me and to the Overtired listeners. Your name is, your name is mentioned. Uh, your name is mentioned on this podcast regularly, but we never heard your voice, [00:05:42] Brett: Oh, I’m on the podcast. I was just saying [00:05:46] Jeff: sucker. [00:05:48] Brett: All right. Hello to Jeff and Brett and Christina’s listeners. All right. [00:05:55] Jeff: Good to see ya. All right. Now we get to, we get to see Brett’s Vivance kick in, uh, over the course of the podcast. We’ll [00:06:02] Brett: It takes like an hour though. That’s why I used to be prescribed, uh, Vivance and then Focalin, because the focalin, I would take the short acting like it would gimme the immediate, like it kicks in so [00:06:17] Jeff: I see. Yeah. Right, right, [00:06:18] Brett: like 15 minutes and, and you’re good to, you’re good to roll. And then I could take it in the evenings as needed. [00:06:25] Um, if I had to work long days or whatever, and the vivance just kind of was the like, steady, slow, and steady, but turns out , that’s a really bad idea. [00:06:39] Jeff: Yeah. Anything that just jacks you right away is kind of a [00:06:43] Brett: Well, I mean, I love folk and I really do, but as we’ve discussed before, I love it too much. [00:06:49] Jeff: As I recall it is for you as a, as a past cocaine user. It is a little too close to cocaine. [00:06:55] Brett: It is. Mental Health Corner [00:06:56] Jeff: Mm-hmm. , that’s, yeah, that’s no good. You don’t want that. Um, would you like to meet me over here, uh, in the, hold on, let me do a vocal effect. I’m just gonna walk over here to the mental health corner. Um, do you wanna join me over here? [00:07:09] Brett: Hmm. Outta my way. I’ll be right there. [00:07:12] Jeff: Oh, hey, you look great. [00:07:14] Brett: she brought me water to drink my Vince with, but, [00:07:18] Jeff: is [00:07:19] Brett: But it’s, uh, seltzer water. [00:07:21] Jeff: Hmm. Yep, [00:07:22] Brett: now I’ve got the burps, [00:07:24] Jeff: yep, yep. I always take my meds with seltzer water. [00:07:27] Brett: I can’t drink regular water anymore, ever since we got the soda stream. [00:07:31] Jeff: Yeah. [00:07:32] Brett: Like regular water is just too boring for me. I, I seltz eyes, everything. [00:07:37] Jeff: I was in the country somewhere. Don’t remember which one, where, um, the, the waiter came up and said, would you like water with gas I was like, yes, please. The same, the same menu had, um, emaciated chicken, uh, on it, just. [00:07:53] Brett: does that mean? [00:07:54] Jeff: This is the bad translation of, I don’t know what [00:07:56] Brett: Um, of Lean, lean Chicken? [00:08:00] Jeff: You don’t usually see lean chicken on the, on the, on the menu anyway. [00:08:03] Brett: is lean. [00:08:04] Jeff: How you doing? [00:08:05] Brett: I, um, So I am on like week seven of no manic episodes, and I am definitely jonesing for one. [00:08:17] Jeff: Is that a record? [00:08:18] Brett: um, no, a few months back, like I guess a year ago I had a stint about this long. I actually went on for like three months. You can see it in my, my GitHub activity. [00:08:32] There’s like this three month stretch of just like two commits a. And, um, I’m doing a little better now than I was then. Like, um, I’ve, I’ve found a better stable than that, but, but yeah, it has been, it’s been a year, like I was having basically once or twice a month, um, was having like three to five day episodes, you know, rapid cycling. [00:08:57] But um, yeah, this has been a long, long stable for me and. I, uh, I’m doing okay. I, uh, I got, I got the end of the year deadlines to meet, which I’m definitely taking my sweet time with. Um, I’m counting on that A D H D, last minute pressure to get things done. [00:09:25] Jeff: Yeah, it’s a prison [00:09:26] Brett: Yeah. But, uh, but I got my vibes now. Um, I think, I think it’s gonna be a good day. We’ll see. [00:09:37] Jeff: Nice. Well, anything else you wanna report? [00:09:42] Brett: Nope, I think that’s, I think that’s my whole check-in. [00:09:46] Jeff: Um, yeah, I don’t, I, I have a sort of, I’ve had a medication situation in that there was, as we’ve talked about, there was a Adderall slash Vivance shortage. Maybe there still is, but it’s not the case in Minneapolis right now. Um, so I went, I at a kind of period of time when I didn’t have any Vince, and then I was able to obtain some, we’re not gonna talk about that. [00:10:08] I got it through that guy from ftx. He, he traded, he said, if you’ll comb my hair, I will give you Vivance. And I was like, absolutely, let’s do that. Um, so I combed his hair and then they arrested him. So anyway, um, but that, that has run out and there’s just been some kind of insurance issue that my, um, medication manager has struggled to figure out. [00:10:33] And it’s been super frustrating. And I had just a hard couple days of coming off of Vince when I didn’t intend to or mean to. Um, but I’m through that now. Uh, and I mean, I think we’ve talked about this on this show before, but you know, I’m still relatively new. Medications. Like I, I started on sertraline at the beginning of the pandemic, coincidentally for anxiety. [00:10:59] Um, then I was taking like Trazodone for sleep, but that, that just wasn’t right for me. Um, and then with a bipolar diagnosis, I started taking, you know, a pretty heavy cocktail of meds and I’ve definitely learned more than. Ought to need to learn that even slight adjustments in the medication, um, can really throw you off. [00:11:21] And if you’re not really aware or truly present to the fact that you have changed something, um, I have, I have run, you know, I run the risk of like not knowing why I’m in such a terrible mood or why am I like bones ache or like whatever. And then just thinking kind of catastrophizing a little bit about that and then realizing, oh Jesus, okay, that’s right. [00:11:43] I just switched the dosage or just switched whatever. And so I get it now. But, um, I feel like for anybody out there taking medication or if you will one day, like I don’t think you can, Repeat that back to yourself too often. You know, like if there’s a change, let your partner know if you got, you know, [00:12:03] Brett: Do you, do you find in general that you have trouble making connections cause, cause and reaction connections in your life? Um, like for me, like I absolutely, uh, just constantly l will have to point out, well, obviously you’re having stomach problems. You ate this thing yesterday. Or of course you’re in a down mood, you know, you, you just came off a manic episode and your meds changed. [00:12:33] And like she sees these connections for me, that should be obvious. Like they’re pretty, like the next day kind of things happen. Uh, but I don’t, I don’t, I, I have a hard time making those connections and remembering what’s going. [00:12:48] Jeff: I would say that I am just now at the point where I am making those connections. And one thing that was great about that when when I went off five bands was like the second day, I was just super. Agitated and like, I just hated everyone, man. I also tried to go to Costco, which was a mistake, but like I was just really intensely agitated. [00:13:11] I was able to contain it. Um, Which I’m really grateful for, and I was able, the way I kind of describe it is I was able to like, just like hold a tarp over my head, as the rain came down, you know, and just like, walk through that storm and just be like, this isn’t, I mean, it’s real, but it isn’t real. Don’t, don’t turn this into something. [00:13:29] It’s not. This is literally, you know, chemical imbalance in your brain. Um, and it’s only gonna last another day and you’re gonna be okay. This was the first time I was able to really ride it through like that and contain it and not be a grouch around the house or like whatever, you know? Um, so, so yeah. I think I make the connection better now. [00:13:50] It’s more like, like when I took that last Vivance on Saturday, I was very aware. I was like, okay. Here we go. Right? This is the last one, which means tomorrow, this time I might just feel really down or I might just feel really tired and the next day I might just feel super agitated, but it’s, and my bones might ache or something, which seems to happen to me. [00:14:11] Uh, so anyway, that’s it. But it’s, you, you raise an important point is like finding a way to be, how can you be present to the connection? Cause like for me, I don’t know if you’re like this, but if I’m like, if I’m not super. Sort of resourced or like balanced. I really lose track of time. I can forget a few times a day what, what day it is even. [00:14:35] Brett: That’s a common ADHD [00:14:37] Jeff: Yeah. And so when I’m in that state, it, it definitely becomes that much harder to make connections cuz time is all messed up. And so that’s something I’ve been trying to also keep in mind. So. [00:14:49] Brett: I, I never, I never lose track of what time it is, but I definitely lose track of where I’m supposed to be at any given time. [00:14:57] Jeff: I lose that too. [00:14:59] Brett: I, uh, like I can take a nap and I wake up and I know what time it is without looking at my watch. Like [00:15:04] Jeff: yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, right. [00:15:06] Brett: time it is. I just forget that, you know, at 10 o’clock I was supposed to be in a meeting and now it’s 10 30 and I’m just now realizing [00:15:15] Jeff: Yeah. [00:15:15] Brett: that I missed, that. [00:15:17] I missed an important meeting [00:15:19] Jeff: Yeah, I have a, I have that, I mean, to the point of where I’m just embarrassed, where it’s like, I, I have to look at the calendar so many times in a day cuz I, I don’t know if it’s, I don’t know if it’s so much that I forget which I do, or that I don’t trust myself to remember. Right. And so I’m constantly looking at it and, and more than any one normal human should need to look at their calendar when they only have three fucking things on it. [00:15:39] Right? Like for the day , you know? But I don’t know. So it goes, [00:15:45] Brett: I always forget the third thing. [00:15:48] Jeff: What’s [00:15:48] Brett: I was, uh, no, the, like, the third thing on the calendar. I’ll get [00:15:51] Jeff: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:15:52] Brett: and my brain will tell me, oh boo, you made it. You’re done. And I forget the third thing. [00:15:57] Jeff: Shit . And when you and I work together, that’s when either you or I write to the other and say, Hey, can we, uh, move this or move it to tomorrow? And then the other goes, yes. I always love having meetings moved. [00:16:10] Brett: Yes, [00:16:11] Jeff: Every [00:16:11] Brett: yes. Flaking is my favorite [00:16:13] Jeff: Yeah. It’s like a, it’s a love language. [00:16:16] Brett: so mental health corner always, always, uh, segues well into our first sponsor. Um, So I’m gonna take a moment. Christina usually does this read and she does a fantastic job of it because she is a longtime user of the Zocdoc service. Um, so we always trust her to have the right thing to say. Sponsor: ZocDoc [00:16:36] Brett: But I’m gonna take it this week and I’m going to reference the fact that Christina loves this sponsor. If you’re a fan of it, sushi is incredible, but gas station sushi not so much. Finding the right sushi makes all the difference. The same goes for finding the right doctor. With zoc, you can find the right doctor for you in your network and in your neighborhood. [00:16:59] One that makes you feel like you’re in good hands, you’re supported, and you’re heard, even if you’re just telling them about your favorite sushi. Zoc is a free app that shows you doctors who are patient, reviewed. Take your insurance and are available when you need them. 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Then start your search for a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That’s zocdoc.com/ Overtired zoc.com/ Overtired. [00:18:31] Jeff: Boom. [00:18:32] Brett: Do you wanna make it a sponsor block? And go ahead and do the next one. Sponsor: Simplisafe [00:18:35] Jeff: Oh yes. Rock block. Um, simply safe, we’re gonna talk about Simply Safe. Did you know that property crimes like burglaries and package thefts spike over the winter? Certainly true in my neighborhood, especially Kias. People like to take the Kias lately in my neighborhood. That’s why now is the best time to secure your home with award-winning home security. [00:18:58] Simply Safe is the home security system. I recommend to everybody make it your resolution to start the new year with greater peace of mind and safety for you and your family. Here’s why we love it. Simply Safe was named the best home security system of 2022 by US News and World Report, a third year in a row in an emergency 24 7. [00:19:19] Professional monitoring agents use Fast Protect technology. Trademark. Exclusively from simply safe to capture critical evidence and verify that the threat is real so you can get priority police response. Can I also say verifying that the threat is real? mostly goes the other way, which is like neighbors are, are, uh, sure that all of the packages are being stolen, but in fact, you, you look at the tape and you see that it was just delivered to the wrong place. That’s where Simply Safe could come in. Just calm people the fuck down. Simply Safe is whole home security with advanced sensors for every room, window and door. HD security cameras for inside and out smarter ways to detect emotion that alert you only when a threat is real. And even hazard sensors that detect fires, floods, and other threats to your home 24 7. [00:20:08] Professional monitoring service costs under $1 a day. Less than half the price of ADTs traditional, professionally installed. With the top rated, simply Safe App. Stay in complete control of your system. Anytime, anywhere, arm or disarm, unlock for a guest. Access your cameras or adjust system settings. Don’t miss your chance for massive savings on our favorite security system. [00:20:33] Get 50% off any new system@simplysafe.com slash Overtired today. That’s S I M P L I S A F. Dot com slash Overtired. This is their biggest discount of the year. There’s no safe, like simply safe. Okay, I, I have a topic and I don’t really know how, how to gauge our listeners familiarity with this thing. So we’re just gonna a assume little knowledge and we’re gonna talk about bookmarklets in your browser. [00:21:08] Okay. Um, Brett, do you wanna explain what a bookmarklet. Bookmarklets! PopClip! [00:21:13] Brett: A bookmarklet is a bookmark in your browser that instead of going to a webpage, it executes JavaScript in. Line and it can be used for all kinds of things. Um, such as using a bookmarking service, taking the current page and sending it to, uh, an API to create a bookmark, uh, like you would do with Pinboard or back in the day. [00:21:36] Delicious. Um, I make a bunch of bookmarklets that do things like, uh, zap all video ads on a page with a click, uh, open a product hunt link without going through. An intermediary, uh, like to turn, but Product Hunt used to make it a pain in the ass to visit the actual website that the product was for. So I made a bookmarklet that basically bypassed their interstitial page and like little things like that. [00:22:09] And you can, you can use ’em to hack all kinds of annoyances on the web and to add all kinds of features to the. [00:22:16] Jeff: So in my experience of Bookmarklets, the ones that I have loved tend to no longer be effective. So Pinboard is a great example. Insta Paper, same thing because why [00:22:27] Brett: because of, uh, what’s it called? It’s security. [00:22:31] Jeff: content security [00:22:33] Brett: Yeah, that’s it. C s P, um, they’ve basically the, they’ve limited the ability of JavaScript to access external. Webpages and therefore defeated most bookmarklets. You can still hold on adjusting a cat. [00:22:51] Jeff: There’s a cat coming in. [00:22:52] Brett: you can still do a lot of stuff and I still use, like, I have a style Steeler bookmarklet [00:22:59] Jeff: Yes. [00:23:00] Brett: that rips the formatting from any blog or webpage and turns it into like a mark two style. [00:23:09] And it still works. Um, sometimes you have to do a little security bypassing to get local scripts to run, uh, but by hosting them on https s servers and loading them, if they, if they load remote code and you do it over https, you can, t p s you can sometimes work around, but then it’s also, it’s not always browser specific. [00:23:34] Some. Won’t allow cross-site execution of JavaScript so they can’t, the page you’re on won’t allow you to load an external JavaScript. So these days, like I used to host all the bookmarklets I shared, I used to host on a cloud front, uh, SSL based server, and the bookmarklet that I had people install would just be a conduit. [00:24:02] To load the code from the web and that way I could update everyone’s bookmarklets just by updating the code on the web. And the next time they ran it, they would be running the most recent version that works almost nowhere anymore. Uh, these days, if you want a complex bookmarklet to run, you have to actually embed the entire code in the bookmarklet. [00:24:22] Jeff: Okay. That’s what I was gonna ask. So I was confused about that cuz I only actually, I didn’t, I hadn’t thought about it that way. I only thought of Bookmarklets as all of the code is embedded in the bookmark. [00:24:32] Brett: Yeah, no, I used to, I used to use, basically, you, you just inject a script tag into the current document and, and add a source to it, and then trigger it so that it loads the source as if it’s loading into the page that you’re currently on. [00:24:49] Jeff: Yeah. Got it. And so is the, is the limitation now without kind of finding ways to go around it? It’s a limitation. You can act on the page that’s open in your browser, but that’s it. [00:24:59] Brett: I, you can act on the page. It’s opening your browser without importing any external code or sending code to As, like I used to have Bookmarklets that worked with Marky, the Markdown, afi, [00:25:12] Jeff: Yeah. [00:25:12] Brett: it could send the content of the current page to an API that would turn it into markdown for you. Stuff like that has hit all kinds of, like GitHub for example, where most of the stuff I marked down ified was from like Stack Overflow or GitHub. [00:25:28] And both of those sites have cross domain, uh, scripting protection that doesn’t make that accessible anymore. [00:25:36] Jeff: And so essentially it’s, it’s, it’s the world of, of web content and web creation going, Hey, these things aren’t safe. Um, we gotta [00:25:45] Brett: there are valid, there are valid security concerns there, but like in the case of like Marky, what I ended up doing, uh, I don’t know if you know this, but shortcuts on Mac, um, have a URL handler [00:25:59] Jeff: Yes, [00:25:59] Brett: and you can pass, you can trigger them and pass data to them using a url. So I just created Bookmarklets that just pass the content of the current. [00:26:11] Do a little cleanup and pass it to a shortcut that runs, gather the, uh, markdown notifying utility I made. Um, so it does it all locally and without sending to any other sites, uh, which, which you still, you can’t still pull off. [00:26:27] Jeff: right. If you , if you’ve got the time and the, and the mind for to, to knit something with 16 different sizes of yarn. Okay, so I wanted to talk about Bookmarklets for just a minute, and you already started bringing us into what I was interested in talking about next, which is like how you get bookmarklet like behaviors without being able to do bookmarklets as they have been done. [00:26:53] You’ve told us the shortcut example I wanted to bring in pop clip. As an example, which does work on highlighted text in a webpage basically. So there are some not so recent changes to pop clip that I am only now aware of that I’m excited about. E explain. So pop clip, a couple of things. What are some bookmarklet like things you do with pop clip? [00:27:13] Brett: Okay, let’s, let’s describe pop clip at, at its most basic, if you’re familiar with iOS, when you select text, it pops up a little thing with copy paste, et cetera. Look up in dictionary, uh, that little. That little bubble that pops up on iOS is what? Pop clip recreates on the Mac. So whenever you select text in any situation, pop clip pops up. [00:27:38] Its little bubble, uh, it’s, it’s not unobtrusive, but you can just type it away. You can just keep typing and, and, and it’ll go away. Um, but, uh, you can assign any. Any kind of functionality you want into that pop-up toolbar to do things like Camel Case or SN case, your text or look it up on duck dot Go. Or like for me, I have one where I can just highlight any text containing a URL and I can preview that URL in a pop-up window without having to switch from my browser. [00:28:15] Um, it can do insane number of things and I have a whole, I have a whole pop clip extensions. Download on my blog with I think, probably 20 different extensions in it. I actually have a, a gather pop clip extension that does pretty much the same thing as like my bullseye bookmarklet do, uh, pop clip is really good at it can grab raw HTML from a webpage and it can also do its own internal markdown conversion. [00:28:48] My Mark Mountain conversion is, Um, I put, I put a lot more time and effort into accurate markdown conversion of things like tables and definition lists and whatnot than, than Pop Clip has any interest in doing so. Um, so I take the raw H T M L and then feed it into Gather, but I think like my primary use. [00:29:17] Pop clip is surround, like I actually made a whole a pop clip maker, an app that generated pop clip extensions that would surround text with different things. Um, and, and I use it for like critic markup, for example. Like I have a whole extension that just lets you add and remove and modify text, uh, using pop clip to insert critic mark. [00:29:46] Markup. And um, and the thing that they added a while back, but apparently just, or just now touting, is the, the ability to create these like surround and search type, um, pop clip extensions using yammel files, which is fabulous. That’s fantastic. [00:30:09] Jeff: Yeah. Ha. And like shout out to Jay Miller who did a nice little video on that. [00:30:14] Brett: Yeah. Drop Jay’s, drop Jay’s, uh, video in the show notes if you have it. [00:30:18] Jeff: I will. And also we need to have Jay on the show. [00:30:20] Brett: Oh, we totally do. [00:30:21] Jeff: was one of my favorite of the last final season of, oh my God, you’re Systematic was the, the episode with Jay Miller. [00:30:28] Brett: Yeah. Jay, Jay is a great guy. Um, yeah, but I, uh, I even have a better touch tool gesture if I hold down. My index and ring finger and then tap with my middle finger. It will pop up using, uh, AppleScript. It’ll pop up the, uh, pop clip toolbar, even if there’s not a [00:30:53] Jeff: Ooh, [00:30:54] Brett: Um, but a lot of times I make my selections using my keyboard instead of my mouse. [00:31:02] Jeff: Yeah. [00:31:02] Brett: Uh, and pop clip only recognizes when you select text with a mouse. So if I like option right arrow shift to, to select something and then I do wanna run, pop upon it. I can just hold down two fingers, tap with my middle finger and get my, uh, get my pop clip toolbar, which currently has, let’s see, I have Web md, which is one of my extensions that Mark Downies using. [00:31:32] Uh, Aaron, Aaron Schwartz’s, he multi. [00:31:35] Jeff: Rest in peace. [00:31:36] Brett: I have Copy Plus, which, uh, is a copy tool that appends, uh, whatever you copy to the current clipboard selection, which is a built-in function of pop clip, but mine adds new lines the way I want it to. Uh, duck dot go one four commenting text in, uh, html or, uh, or with, with, uh, hashes, uh, word count. [00:32:04] Uh, I have a, [00:32:05] Jeff: yeah. Word count. [00:32:06] Brett: I have an extension for making bulleted and numbered lists, uh, in markdown formatting. So if I select multiple lines, I can just turn ’em into lists. Uh, one for markdown emphasis, one for, uh, collapsing par. Uh, so a lot of times when we put together our, um, our sponsor reads, I copied them out of PDFs that, that really mess with the line breaks. [00:32:33] Jeff: Yeah. [00:32:34] Brett: So I can just select a paragraph and hit my unwrap pop clip extension and it will remove all of the line breaks in the paragraph. Um, and then I, as as mentioned, camel case and Snake case and uppercase and lowercase [00:32:51] Jeff: And random case. You could do random case if you’re, if that’s the, [00:32:55] Brett: speak. [00:32:55] Jeff: if you’re into that kind of shit. [00:32:57] Brett: And then, and then I have one called Slug Gify that will take selected text and lowercase it and hyphenate it and remove invalid characters. [00:33:07] So you can make like a a, a Jekyll blog style slug out of it. [00:33:13] Jeff: That’s awesome. And you know, one, one thing I recommend it for is, so I have colleagues who like aren’t necessarily comfortable in text editors, um, but I would love for them to have the power a text editor gives you to manipulate text. And this is like such an easy way to give them that power. This is great. [00:33:31] People love it. I mean, they have like the featured, I think the featured extension right now is like if you have a list with commas, you highlight it, click, click the extension, and it turns it into just a regular list ordered list, you know? So if you do shit like that and I do like to party with the text I do like it. [00:33:47] Brett: Like a, a lot of, so I have a accommodation of, I run a lot of services. You’ve seen my markdown service tools. You’ve seen all of the services that I create. Um, and some of those have been converting to shortcuts and some of them get converted to mark, uh, pop clip extensions. But basically I’m always using a combination of services and, and pop clip while I’m editing. [00:34:14] And any app that I use that doesn’t play well with services or pop. Uh, I, I give up on very quickly vs. Code, for example, vs. Code does not do a great job of handling input from services like a service processes text, and then replaces your current text with the output of the service vs. Code tends to chunk that up in various ways and, and that has been a major blocking point for. [00:34:48] And using VS code because it doesn’t work with all of the tools that I’m just used to having. [00:34:55] Jeff: Yeah. Right, right. [00:34:57] Brett: Uh, obsidian two Obsidian also uses like an electron based [00:35:01] Jeff: It’s, explain to me why, what it is about being electron based that causes that [00:35:07] Brett: because most of the text editing is done in, uh, a, it’s a web browser. It’s [00:35:13] Jeff: Uh, got it. [00:35:15] Brett: and, and you are. Your, your text isn’t technically being handled directly through a cocoa text field. It’s it’s sub subject to whatever kind of text editor they built in a web kit field, um, which is unpredictable. [00:35:36] Jeff: Yeah. Um, okay. I wanna, I have somewhere I want to go from here, but I’ll have to ask you a question. I have only just noticed that on some of the actions I have loaded, um, there is a little gear. And if I open up the gear, I get some options like show as icon only, which I did not realize was a thing. [00:35:55] And the other one is like obviously with the search you can open it up and put, you know, where do you wanna search or whatever. So it’s also just kind of a nice little second layer to these elegant little things. [00:36:05] Brett: yeah. And. [00:36:06] Jeff: are elegant. [00:36:06] Brett: I don’t know if you can add options with the, [00:36:09] Jeff: That was what I was gonna ask you next. [00:36:12] Brett: with the yammel I haven’t, because I’m adept at making my own pop clip extensions manually. And like a, a regular pop clip extension uses xml. It uses a p list file, uh, to define all of its characteristics and its options and, and where it works. And, and like you can define. [00:36:36] This extension only shows up if these conditions are met and, and things like that, that I’m used to defining in the P list. And I, I have never explored like exactly how much of that translates to the, the YAML extension format. [00:36:55] Jeff: gonna ask you about that too. The idea of this only shows up if certain conditions are met. Um, I don’t, I’ve never seen a place where I have control over that in an extension unless I was writing it. Is that [00:37:06] Brett: No. Right, exactly. Um, it, it’s defined by the extension author and in, in the same document where the, uh, yammel extensions are explained, you can find all of the various keys that you can use to determine where, sorry, we an extension shows. Um, and, and what its result is [00:37:31] Jeff: It seems like this year you’ve embraced shortcuts a little. [00:37:35] Brett: I’m trying, like when I found out that you can shortcuts, if you drag a system service onto shortcuts onto the app, it will do its best to convert your system service to a shortcut. [00:37:50] Jeff: Hmm. [00:37:50] Brett: And Apple is clearly more invested in continuing development of shortcuts than they are in continuing the development of Automator. [00:38:01] Um, like automator, if you, if you add a Shell script option to automator, it still offers you, uh, a, a series of processors. You can have that shell script run in Ruby, Pearl, Python, et cetera, but Apple is no longer embedding those process. In Mac Os and it’s pretty clear to me that shortcuts is the future. [00:38:28] So I am making an effort to, to parlay my knowledge in, in system services, in automator to shortcuts and to make use of, and honestly, shortcuts are more. Like just if then and for loops, like you can’t do that in automator. You don’t have that option. And shortcuts make that very easy. So like I see the benefit of shortcuts and I am kind of working to, to keep up with the kids in this, in this case, [00:39:05] Jeff: The shortcuts kids, the ones that take all the extracurriculars. Just Call Mann, Orchard & Sparks [00:39:10] Brett: Rosemary, gotta keep up with the Rosemary [00:39:13] Jeff: man, that’s not possible. Uh, but it’s a great Rosemary’s, a great North Star [00:39:18] Brett: for sure. I, uh, for anyone who missed it, I filled in for Rosemary on, uh, the, uh, episode of Automators. I think it was the last one that came out. Um, but, uh, but it was just me and David Sparks talking about mostly the stuff I’ve made, but. I, I did my best to fill in for Rosemary on Automators [00:39:41] Jeff: That’s awesome, man. I, I, I owe that Sparks character a lot. I mean, there was a period of time for me, I remember I got laid off. From a public radio job, it was kind of laid out. There was a grant funded project and the grant money ran out. And I didn’t know what I wanted to do and, and what skills I wanted to build. [00:39:58] And at the same time, um, it was really like the, it was really like the David Sparks first wave. You know, he is like putting the books out and he’s, you know, like you two did a book together. Uh, I learned about you through that. Um, and you know, like that was such an. Time in my, in my development as a power user. [00:40:16] Um, it was great [00:40:18] Brett: Yeah, like, so I owe a lot of my, my success in the Mac community to like David, uh, to Merlin Mann and John Gruber and their like interactions and mentions of me early on. But most people I talked to, They heard about me from my guest spots on like Mac Power users and Automators, and Sparks. Sparks has played a major role in, in, in who I am on the On the Mac Internet these days. [00:40:50] Jeff: Well, he, he, I mean, to this day, you know, he speaks your name about, you know, once or twice an episode, but as much as I mentioned Danny, Uh, you know, That’s awesome. Um, okay, the last, so we’ve been talking about these, like this, this whole thing for me is like these elegant little tools. The last one for me is actually just gonna be my gratitude real quick. And then Brett, I wanna do a lightning round with you because you’ve started releasing your favorites. [00:41:18] End of your favorites, okay. You. [00:41:20] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A Grapptitude Spectacular! [00:41:21] Jeff: so my, my gratitude will just kind of follow this idea of these elegant little tools, um, into this great curated directory of like 750 plus Mac menu bar apps. Um, it’s, uh, somebody I wouldn’t know who is this, that they should say who this is cuz that’s a lot of work they put into it. [00:41:39] Um, did a lot of work, uh, organizing all these things into an a website with a really nice interface. Um, and his name is maybe. Uh, L U U K. Um, anyway, it’s in the, it’s in the show notes. So I recommend this as much as a way to see what is bit possible in a menu bar app as what exists. Because I found as I started going through this and clicking the things that were interesting to me, they were almost all no longer developed. [00:42:09] Um, but I don’t think that’s the reason. Uh, to ignore them. I mean, it’s, it’s actually wonderful to have an index of, of no longer active apps because it gives you a sense of what came before. [00:42:21] Brett: Ooh, but there’s a chat G p t menu bar app [00:42:24] Jeff: oh man. [00:42:25] Brett: at the top. [00:42:26] Jeff: I, I have a, I have a dear friend who’s doing some dark magic with, uh, chat G p t right now. So stuff is insane. [00:42:34] Where is it? Where’s the g p? [00:42:36] Brett: It, it’s like number three on page one of the. [00:42:42] Jeff: I see it. [00:42:43] Brett: Recently added [00:42:45] Jeff: Wow, that’s a whole nother episode. I mean, that’s a whole nother episode once a month for the next, you know, three years until something else comes. This seems, this seems, head it. This seems like something that came out of the Pentagon. Chat, G P T Total DARPA DARPA Project. [00:43:02] Brett: Well, and we talked about menu bar X. Uh, that was a, that was a pick a while back. Uh, where you can put like all kinds of little web browser apps into your menu bar [00:43:14] Jeff: Is, is the barrier to creating a menu bar app any lower than for any other kind of app that has to pass [00:43:21] Brett: any lower. No, it might, might actually be a little higher. Um, it takes a little more effort to make a menu bar only app than to make a simple Mac app, um, to, to make a good app of any kind. there, you know, there’s, there’s a barrier. [00:43:41] Jeff: Right. [00:43:42] Brett: if, if you’re, if you’re, if you’re good enough to make a Good Mac app, you’re good enough to make a menu bar app, that’s, it’s about equal. [00:43:50] But, uh, it does take a little more effort to put it menu bar only. [00:43:56] Jeff: Awesome. Well, I’m gonna move us past that cause we’re running. I wanna do the lightning round. Here’s, here’s the rules, Brett. Okay. You get to say, I name the app and you get to say one sentence. [00:44:08] Brett: Okay. [00:44:08] Jeff: Okay. And it doesn’t matter. The sentence can be, uh, how it makes you feel. Or the sentence can be what it does doesn’t matter. [00:44:15] Okay. And we’re gonna start with your list of, um, favorites, uh, your Mac apps favorites. Okay? But then we’re gonna do a super lightning round where you only get two words for your own apps. Okay? you did your favorites, your own projects. All right. You ready? Are you ready? You wanna stretch? You wanna, you know, hit your cough button and make a guttural [00:44:36] Brett: I wish I had more coffee, but I drank all my coffee. We’re just going to, we’re gonna do it. Let’s. [00:44:42] Jeff: we go. This is, these are Brett’s favorite apps of 2022. Uh, one sentence per, here we go. Affinity photo two. [00:44:49] Brett: Finally, uh, it, it’s finally a true competitor to Adobe. Everything is coming into place, [00:44:58] Jeff: Everything is coming to play. Okay, that’s one sentence. Um, or semicolon. Hmm. I think that was a sentence. All right. Uh, kaleidoscope. [00:45:05] Brett: Um, it’s been through many hands. Uh, over, over its lifetime. As far as a Mac Diff app, it is the best you can find. [00:45:19] Jeff: So that was like an M dash and not a period. Are you looking at your fucking blog post? That’s cheating. [00:45:23] Brett: What, okay. [00:45:24] Jeff: it in your glasses. curio, curio. You do whatever you want. [00:45:29] Brett: Curio is, uh, such an amazing app full of surprises and delight. And as far as project management goes, It is project management and brainstorming are curious, strong points and I absolutely love it. [00:45:46] Jeff: Awesome Redx Rx. [00:45:48] Brett: There’s so many regular expression testers and and creators out there, but Redx rx, which looks like weirdly like a Java app is, has all the features I’ve ever wanted, and I’ve never found anything that is as. [00:46:06] Jeff: I’m worried that you’re gonna complete, uh, I’m worried that you’re gonna continue this pattern of using parentheticals as a loophole to keeping it to one sentence. All right. Clean shot x [00:46:16] Brett: The most elegant app on Mac right now. It is. If you need to shoot screenshots or screen video, it does everything exactly the way you want it to. So intuitive, so amazing. So it’s so good. [00:46:35] Jeff: You gotta get these sentences shorter bike [00:46:38] Brett: Bike. Uh, if, if you love task paper, you’re gonna love bike. The best outliner that came out in the last year warp is like, I’m still an I term two guy. I still love I term, but warp adds artificial intelligence command completion. Amazing. Uh, command Line Auto Complete to your terminal. [00:47:07] Jeff: Clean my macx [00:47:08] Brett: Just so Mac Keeper gave a bad name to all of the, uh, Mac cleaning apps, but Mac, uh, clean my Macx is just a down. [00:47:24] Responsible application that will clean and optimize your Mac in a way that is not shady at all. [00:47:33] Jeff: You, you made that one sentence by cheaply using the word, but, um, da Vinci, resolve [00:47:39] Brett: we skipped Mac [00:47:40] Jeff: Oh shit. Mac Updater. Sorry, everybody. [00:47:43] Brett: Man, I love Mac Updater because I don’t have to wait until I launch an app to find out there’s an. I know exactly what apps on my Mac need update at any given time. As soon as an update is available, I know about it and Mac Updater just keeps it all together. [00:48:03] Jeff: Da Vinci. [00:48:04] Brett: Da Vinci resolve. I have ne I I do not do enough video editing to feel comfortable dropping $200 on final cut. [00:48:13] Pro X Da Vinci Resolve has professional level. Video editing capabilities for free. [00:48:23] Jeff: Who to spot? Woo woo [00:48:25] Brett: If you love spotlight, just wait till, wait till you [00:48:29] Jeff: in the world, [00:48:32] Brett: It’s it’s spotlight on steroids. It’s amazing. [00:48:36] Jeff: Choosy [00:48:38] Brett: There are so many apps that will let you use multiple browsers, but Choosy is the oldest and still, in my opinion, the best app for choosing what, what links open in what browser. [00:48:53] Jeff: better touch. [00:48:55] Brett: I don’t think I could possibly summarize better Hutch tool in two sentences, but, but, If you want to automate your machine, your from your track pad to your stream deck to your keyboard, if you wanna make shit happen, better touch tool is is your go-to. [00:49:19] Jeff: Yeah, I mean, in fact, that wasn’t even Brett’s voice. It was AI generated by a, a better touch tool action where you put two fingers on the track pad, you lick the mic and you, and you blink twice and then hit enter on the keyboard. It’s incredible. It’s incredible. All right. Five five left hook mark. [00:49:37] Brett: Uh, hook, hook mark is so hard to describe, but basically if you wanna link together any two things, any, any multiple things on your computer, you’re like a to-do item, a video, A P D F A file. A webpage, if you wanna make it so that you can find related, uh, uh, objects from any of those things, you can use hook bark to hook them together and create networks basically of information. [00:50:10] No matter where they’re located on your driver in the world, uh, you can just hook them together. And it is, it’s a hard to describe application that once you get into. Is just infinitely useful. [00:50:25] Jeff: Okay, listen, you got three left here, but for God’s sake, don’t go longer than the actual text on the website. Uh, MailMate. [00:50:34] Brett: I’m gonna, I’m gonna just quote my website. I’m not sure anything will ever pull me away from MailMate. It’s my email tool of choice power without compromise. [00:50:42] Jeff: thought sex. [00:50:43] Brett: Uh, I use a lot of mind maps and I use a lot of mind mapping apps, and I thought X is still my favorite mind mapping software on the Mac [00:50:56] Jeff: All right, and, and finally dash. [00:50:58] Brett: dash. I use Dash constantly because it offers me instant search of any a p. [00:51:07] Any programming, language, anything I need a cheat sheet for, I can just hit a shortcut and I can type in an abbreviation and find exactly the documentation I’m looking for. [00:51:21] Jeff: All right. We did it. That was great. Now listen, this is the hard one. Okay. And I’m gonna change it cuz we’re, I don’t want you going long like that. Ready? It’s, you get, you get one, one word. [00:51:30] Brett: one word. [00:51:31] Jeff: Yeah. This is just for fun. One word to describe each of your tools from your, um, favorite tools of 2022 that you created. [00:51:39] Okay. [00:51:39] Brett: All right. [00:51:40] Jeff: everyone’s gonna go there, you know, it’s all right. People. We’re just getting people over it. You just give them, give them a word. Okay? Uh, bunch. [00:51:50] Brett: Can I use a hyphenate [00:51:52] Jeff: It’s a terrible, that’s a terrible, we’re gonna give you two words, sponge. [00:51:55] Brett: plain tax automation [00:51:57] Jeff: Hmm. All right. Doing. [00:52:00] Brett: time track? [00:52:01] Jeff: Hmm. Gather. [00:52:03] Brett: Mark donation. [00:52:05] Jeff: You’re doing great. How’s it? [00:52:09] Brett: Build notes. [00:52:11] Jeff: Repeatability? [00:52:12] Brett: There you go. [00:52:13] Jeff: Hmm. Na. Narcotics Anonymous Community. Community, [00:52:18] Brett: 12 steps. Um, no. Uh, command line. One word. Task paper. Two words. Interaction. Three words. [00:52:30] Jeff: All right. All right. Command line task. Good. Search link. [00:52:34] Brett: Instant search, [00:52:36] Jeff: Oh, Hmm. Where do I sign up? Uh, marked two. [00:52:42] Brett: markdown, preview, [00:52:45] Jeff: Uh, envy Ultra on my epitaph. [00:52:53] Brett: markdown, note taking. [00:52:56] Jeff: Boom. Brett, thank you for all that you do and for putting up with my stupid lightning round thing. Um, I know that far before I knew you, I looked forward to these end of year posts. I also, I also checked your site every day to see if there was a new web excursions post. Cause those were always super fun. [00:53:14] So thank you for all that you do and for being, uh, a podcast friend. [00:53:18] Brett: Yeah. Thank you Jeff. [00:53:20] Jeff: Hey, my pleasure, [00:53:22] Brett: Life, life is better for knowing you. [00:53:25] Jeff: Ah shucks. I feel the same. Thank you. It was very kind [00:53:28] Brett: I had a, I, I drove to the cities, the Twin Cities, uh, to have lunch with Rabbi Eric Linder, previous guest. Um, but Jeff’s, Jeff’s household was going through some illnesses that I didn’t want to be exposed to. So I did not get to see Jeff on this last. It was great to see Eric, but uh, but definitely missing you. [00:53:55] Jeff: Influenza A coming through the house. No thank you. Well, I hope you get some sleep, at least [00:54:02] Brett: Yeah. Get some sleep, [00:54:04] Outro: The.

The gang talks about grief and how to support friends who are going through it. There is also talk of professional transitions, search engine occultism, shitty but hilarious passwords, and our favorite hardware. C’mon by won’t you? Sponsor Meet Rocket Money: The app shows all your subscriptions in one place, and then cancels for you whatever you don’t still want. Rocket Money can even find subscriptions you didn’t know you were paying for. You may even find out you’ve been double-charged for a subscription. To cancel a subscription, all you have to do is press CANCEL, and Rocket Money takes care of the rest. Get rid of useless subscriptions with Rocket Money now. Go to rocketmoney.com/overtired. Seriously, it could save you HUNDREDS per year. Podcast Swap: Best Advice Show. The Best Advice Show is your reminder that there are weird, delightful and effective ways to make life slightly and sometimes profoundly better. In every (very short) episode of the show, a different contributor offers their take on making life more joyful, healthful and livable and it’s likely gonna be something you can try today, if you want. The host, Zak Rosen, talks to well known people, like happiness guru Gretchen Rubin and filmmaker, Mike Mills but also his friends and his daughter and his listeners. Show Links Top 200 Most Common Passwords Wave XLR NK65 Olivia Edition Keyboard Stream Deck XL Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jeffreyguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Seriously Though [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Brett: Welcome to Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with, as always, Jeffrey Severances, Gunzel. And Christina Warren. Uh, Jeff, how’s it going? [00:00:18] Jeffrey: I’m trying to match your brightness. I’m, I gotta do some stretches. [00:00:22] Brett: during the countdown, before we start recording, I’m like, all right, I’m gonna, I’m gonna put on a new face, I’m gonna come out bright, I’m gonna come out hard. And, uh, and I just decided to go for it. I am not actually feeling that, but, uh, Christina, how are you? [00:00:37] Christina: Well, okay. Yes. Similar to Jeff. I’m like trying to kind of like, find the energy. He’s like, Hey, I’m so glad to be here. This is, and like, and I can totally do that, but I was like, that doesn’t sound like Fred. Okay. So, no, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, um, no, I’m doing pretty well. Um, there’s, Well, we’ll talk about it, but no, in general I’m doing pretty well. [00:00:56] Um, I, uh, I had, you know, the last week or so off, which was nice. And, um, now I don’t know about YouTube, but it’s like, just kinda like winding down before the end of the year. Um, so there’s a lot of meetings and projects and stuff, but it’s, you know, just kind of trying to get, get things squared away before, before the holidays. [00:01:14] So I’m doing pretty well. [00:01:16] Jeffrey: time off [00:01:18] Brett: Yeah. [00:01:19] Christina: indeed. [00:01:21] Jeffrey: Sounds like a wild few weeks before [00:01:22] Brett: Well, so we all had last week off. It was, uh, I, we just needed, we needed a week off. We did. It was [00:01:29] Jeffrey: the whole podcast break on the beach, [00:01:33] Brett: you serious? [00:01:33] Jeffrey: No, I’m joking, [00:01:34] Christina: Damn. I was, I’m [00:01:35] Jeffrey: don’t have to record the podcast this week. I’m going to the beach. [00:01:39] Brett: So I found, I found the, the style of music I want, uh, for the mental health corner. And I posted it in our discord. Let me just send you real quick. Um, copy link, and I’m gonna drop this in our chat and you guys can just hear this so that it puts you in the mood, uh, for, for what’s about to happen. [00:02:06] Jeffrey: It depends on my mental health status. [00:02:11] oh shoot. It went to a, oh, can you hear that? Sorry. But it actually, it went to a, I’m in Chrome so I’m not signed in, which it means I got this big ad and I was like, wow. Banging. Na na. Yeah. No, I’m doing pretty good. I was kind of depressed. [00:02:27] Brett: it’s uh, it’s EMBAs and Cassinet. [00:02:30] Jeffrey: I remember you sent me that [00:02:31] Brett: Just with the cast and nets going. Um, can I tell you before we head into the mental health corner, I, uh, I did a guest spot, Rosemary was sick for, uh, automators with uh, David Sparks and he brought me in to fill in for Rosemary. And I went ahead and just told anyone who’s listening, cuz I’m used to, you know, our relatively modest listener numbers. [00:03:04] I’m like, anyone who’s listening who wants into the n b ultra beta just, you know, drop me an email and. Holy shit. They have a lot of listeners, because I have, I have spent the last, I have spent the last five days just constantly fielding emails. Thank God for text expander and like, just like pu push pushing people towards like the private email, beta list, um, beta email list. [00:03:33] But man, I, it, it’s, it’s, it’s fascinating to me that some shows have so much more appeal than we do. I feel like we’re very appealing. I just, I don’t understand why, why we don’t have that kind of audience. [00:03:51] Jeffrey: Yeah, well it’s a very different kind of show. I mean, I feel like having listened to that show quite a long time, David established a sort of formula that um, is always met pretty precisely. And I think that as having been someone who listened for like a year or so, it was a phase in which I just wanted to hear people talk about that sort of thing. [00:04:16] It was Mac Power users in this case. Right. Um, And the thing that can, that, that is interesting to me about podcasts, and this is in no way a critique of David Sparks or either of those shows. Um, is that like, how long can you do the formula before you feel like, oh, I just cycled through for the 50th time. [00:04:39] Go to this app, go to this app, go to this app, go to this app, go to this type of thing, [00:04:43] Brett: Yeah. Like, I mean the, his listenership is crazy. [00:04:47] Christina: Yeah, [00:04:48] Jeffrey: Well, Rosemary though, is, is someone who just brings things fresh every time. I feel like once Automators started going, it felt like with Rosemary, there’s just no end to what she can contribute, you know? Cuz she’s, I think she’s more actively like developing and playing and, you know, um, and so I think that’s a, that was a great call as a, as a cohos. [00:05:12] Brett: would say that David bringing Rosemary on was equivalent to us bringing Jeff on [00:05:19] Jeffrey: And it got you just as many new listeners, namely my friend Daniel [00:05:26] Brett: Hi Dan [00:05:28] Jeffrey: Um, well and another thing that’s interesting about that podcast to me is I think of it cuz I do still listen once in a while I kind of, I always check out to see what the topic is, although I have not looked to see that you were there. Um, listening to his podcast is almost like listening to the classic rock station where you’re like, I don’t really need this stuff anymore. [00:05:46] But it’s kind of fun to hear this song once in a while. [00:05:49] Christina: It, it, it, it, it’s nice. [00:05:51] Brett: Play. Play Me the Hits. [00:05:52] Christina: Yeah, exactly. [00:05:53] Jeffrey: Play me the hits. [00:05:54] Christina: it’s also, it’s like a, it’s like, it’s like comfort. It’s like comfort tv, you know what I [00:05:58] Jeffrey: Yeah, totally. [00:05:59] Christina: Like, just have it on the background. You’re like, even if I already know a lot of this stuff, and even if I’m not necessarily learning, um, maybe I am like, like a grant listens to old Car Talk episodes all the time. [00:06:09] And like, that’s a show that has, you know, hasn’t been on the, uh, air, I don’t know how long, but they still, you know, re-release, um, episodes on, on npr, I think, uh, or maybe it’s just in their app, but, you know, um, one of the, one of the guys, one of the brothers passed away a few years ago and, and before that even they’d like retired. [00:06:28] But like, that’s another example of a thing like that, you know, he can like listen to an old episode from like the nineties, you know, and still enjoy the banter and the trying to figure out what’s wrong with the car and, and all that stuff, you know? And I, I feel like that’s, that’s kind of similar with what you’re [00:06:42] Brett: didn’t, didn’t cl click or clack. Didn’t one of them die? [00:06:46] Christina: Yes, that’s what I said. Yeah. One of them died. Um, uh, and they’d stopped before that because I think he had, um, Alzheimer’s or [00:06:53] Brett: Oh, that’s sad. [00:06:54] Christina: It’s very sad. Yeah, [00:06:55] Jeffrey: also, like, um, also like classic rock stations accidental tech podcast, which is one that I, I used to listen to Faith. Now when I put it on, it’s again like classic rock. I’m waiting for Van Halen to come on. And Van Halen in this case is John Syracuse. Like I just . I want to hear [00:07:13] Brett: When are we gonna get Syracuse on [00:07:15] Christina: we do. No, we do, we need to have him on, like, honestly, and, and this would be one where I would just be happy to just like sit back and let the man talk because, [00:07:22] Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah. [00:07:23] Christina: know what I mean? Like, [00:07:24] Jeffrey: the man critique [00:07:25] Christina: yes. [00:07:28] Brett: we’ll just, we’ll come up, we’ll come up with a prompt. We’ll just, we’ll, we’ll throw out a prompt and just let ’em go. [00:07:34] Jeffrey: I’m a huge fan. [00:07:35] Brett: I do that with Christina all the [00:07:37] Jeffrey: a fantastic mind and, and delightful to listen to. Yeah. [00:07:42] Brett: All right. So, uh, Mental Health Corner [00:07:44] Jeffrey: Oh, are we supposed to be playing our Mabas for Mental Health Corner? [00:07:47] Brett: we’re just gonna have to imagine it for now, unless someone un, unless whoever’s editing this episode feels like in interjecting, we’re just gonna roll into imagine in your head. Fifties martini music, MABAS casts. Um, I’m not even gonna try to hum it. You, you know what I’m talking about. [00:08:11] You know, you know, the genre, um, who, who, who wants to, who wants to do a mental health check-in? [00:08:18] Jeffrey: Hmm. [00:08:20] Brett: All right. Fine. I will. [00:08:21] Christina: Okay. [00:08:22] Brett: It has been over six weeks now since I had a manic episode, and I think that’s a good thing. Um, I, overall, I am, I haven’t been manic in a while, but I also, I feel like I’m finding that new stable that I’ve been talking about. Um, I’m not, I’m not suffering from most symptoms of depression. [00:08:49] Um, I’m functioning at a higher level than, than I usually am in periods. Term stable. Um, and, and this feels like I might be finding a new normal. It’s still not the like, uh, energy level that I really would like to think normal could be for me. Um, I really am missing that like manic energy right now. I really, really want it, like to the point where I’m tempted to like go off my stimulants for a few days and [00:09:26] Jeffrey: No way [00:09:27] Brett: Start ’em back up just to like trigger. Yeah. But I’m, I’m being smart. I’m being smart. I’m not doing that. But, um, I’m, I, there’s still, there are still things I need to figure out before I can consider this sustainable because my, my personality will try to train, wreck this pretty quickly, um, and, and try to get back to a creative space that I feel like I’m lacking. [00:09:54] So that’s kinda where I’m at. I’m, I’m doing all right. Uh, my, my, the leader of my group at work got, they call it rift reduction in force. [00:10:08] Jeffrey: Rift. [00:10:09] Brett: she got Rift, uh, taken away from us, um, and left us in kind of a lurch and, and because it was a rift, they can’t just replace her job position. So now we’re all reporting to one level higher, and it’s a new guy they brought in from Microsoft and none of us know him yet. [00:10:32] And, uh, we have a whole bunch of, everything’s very uncertain. Like we don’t know what the situation’s gonna be. We don’t know if what we’re doing now is going to continue. [00:10:44] Jeffrey: many management changes does that make for you in just a little over a year? I think. [00:10:48] Brett: Uh, 3, 3, 3 major management shifts in the year I’ve been at Oracle. Um, and I guess this is just kind of par for the course. I haven’t been in corporate America for a long time, but. [00:11:02] Christina: Uh, it’s a lot, but I’m trying to think. I mean, I think I had five one year, so. Five or six. But that was, that was a crazy, like, that was a ridiculous situation, um, in all those cases. And so, and I, I’m not like defending it in any way. So three is a lot, three major ones. And, and in those cases, I was at least still in the same team. [00:11:25] Like, we didn’t have, like, [00:11:26] Brett: Yeah. [00:11:27] Christina: well, one time I did get reorged, but, but, but like, I was still, even then, I was still like in the same group. Whereas it seems like you’ve had a, a different reporting structure and some other different things happen. [00:11:38] Brett: The interesting thing has been that I have stayed in the same group the whole time, but every, everyone else in the group has moved. So my, I’m, I’m in the same group, but with all new people, [00:11:50] Christina: what I mean. Yeah. So, so, so, so it’s, it’s effectively the same thing. Whereas with [00:11:55] Brett: Yeah. It’s. [00:11:55] Christina: there were some changes, but for the most part it wasn’t like I had like a new, you know, like I had new colleagues, you know what I mean? So, [00:12:04] Jeffrey: Wow, man. Corporate gigs. [00:12:08] Brett: Right. [00:12:09] Christina: Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s a whole other, uh, it’s a whole other universe. It’s, it’s hard to kind of explain, like, if you haven’t worked in it, then going into it for people who haven’t had that, especially, you know, someone like you, Jeff, who like you’ve worked in, in journalism, which even corporate journalism is still different than like, uh, corporate jobs, I think in most cases. [00:12:28] Like, maybe it’s different if you worked at like a very, like, buttoned up organization, [00:12:33] Jeffrey: for me it’s, I have some of that experience cause I’m kind of like a special teams guy, , you know, and those are the ones that get the managers swept out, you know, switched out [00:12:41] Christina: Oh, totally. Totally. Yeah. But, but, but, [00:12:43] Jeffrey: not barely at all. I’ve had that experience once. [00:12:46] Christina: but you’ve also, because you’re special teams, you’re kind of like, you know, that you’re kind of like the get in, get out kind of guy, right? Like that’s kind of like part of the gig, right? Is that it’s, you know, you go in or, or you’re working on your thing and, and you know, it can change around you. [00:12:59] Um, At least, at least that, that’s how I felt about it. It’s like the uncertainty or the chaos is kind of like a feature, not a bug in some [00:13:08] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. [00:13:09] Christina: Whereas in theory, I think in, in corporate life, although the number of reorgs that big companies have, it’s crazy. You think that you’re doing it for the stability and then you kind of realize once you’re in it, oh no, there’s not, like there’s, people wonder sometimes, like how w with really large organizations, and, and I’m going to be generalizing here, but I think this is probably true, uh, largely, but, but it is still a generalization. [00:13:36] Like people wonder, like, why does it take big companies so long to introduce new things or to do stuff? And this is why, because when you. You know, a hundred thousand people or whatever in an organization, you’re going to have a natural attrition of talent. You’re going to have new people coming in and out with different strategies who want to do their own way of doing things and have their brilliant idea of wanting to restructure stuff. [00:13:57] And every time you have a reorganization, and then people have to like get back up to speed and figure out what they’re doing. And like, that takes time. And like that, that leads to delays and, and stuff getting released. Like that’s, that’s why historically, I mean not, not always, but historically why larger companies are slower to respond to things than smaller ones because they’re just, you know, so much like it when you’re trying to turn something like that. [00:14:23] Especially if you do it multiple times, you have a lot of people who are just kind of getting paid to sit around and not really know what they’re doing. [00:14:28] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Right, right, right. uh, Brett, you brought that up as part of your mental health check-in, is that, I can’t remember how it, how we got into it. [00:14:39] Brett: Yeah, well, so my mental health right now is very much wrapped in, wrapped up in this stress of being required, like we’re on two week sprints now, where we have to produce new content every two weeks and. Like that is hugely taxing on my mental health because I just, I, I, it’s, it’s very laborious to me. [00:15:03] Jeffrey: how do those kinds of posts perform? [00:15:05] Brett: I mean, we, we have a ton of like tutorial content that is useful and evergreen, but ultimately not high traffic properties. [00:15:18] Uh, it’s a whole, a whole ecosystem of tutorial content. That’s great. If you’re searching for the exact term that it’s about, uh, you’ll find it, but it’s not exactly like announce it on the social channels and it’s people swarming to read it. [00:15:35] Christina: right? No. And, and that’s not really the goal. I mean, I think usually the goal of that content is one, yes, if you can get your SEO good enough with some of your keywords, people can find it and you can cut down on support costs. But usually the bigger thing is like when you have, um, partners, uh, and meaning like sales teams and ecosystems trying to find solutions for people and, and, and they’re trying to integrate stuff, like, it’s useful to have those examples and that tutorial stuff there when people are trying to figure things out. [00:16:01] Cuz the people who are, you know, really trying to implement stuff, or maybe they’re, again, consultants, it’s really common. They go in, they go out of something and they’re like, okay, I need to implement this. All right, what does your documentation say? And, and that’s, um, going to, in some ways maybe save the, the, the partner teams from having to create one off content that doesn’t live anywhere else or have any longer standing purpose. [00:16:26] Brett: have I told you what Warp is doing? The terminal warp? [00:16:30] Jeffrey: yeah, yeah. You are, you’re writing for them, [00:16:32] Brett: Yeah. [00:16:32] Jeffrey: I just watched a long tutorial [00:16:34] Christina: I love [00:16:34] Jeffrey: kind of fell in love. [00:16:36] Brett: they’re, they’re creating content. They’re doing like the SEO research to figure out what people. [00:16:44] Jeffrey: And just for the listeners out there, that search engine Occultism, [00:16:47] Brett: exactly. Seo. Um, they’re, they’re figuring out exactly what, what terminal users are trying to figure out, and they’re building content around that. And it’s not even warp specific like the content they’re building. It, it, it very clearly answers the question. For example, how do I do recursive change mod, uh, and how do I use the change mod command recursively? [00:17:14] And any search for that is gonna wind up on this Terminus page they’ve created, which then links to warp and it’s great content. They’re doing a really good job of creating good content. Like that’s what anyone, that’s the content is king philosophy, [00:17:31] Christina: No, it works. That’s the digital lotion approach. Like, that’s what, uh, which I guess really was the slice host approach, um, which was, you know, creating really good tutorials that were genuinely great, whether you’re using digital lotion or not. And then that bolts an affinity, builds brand awareness. [00:17:47] You see the site a number of times and you’re going, Hey, I need a V Ps. Who am I gonna try? I imagine that the similar thing will happen with Warp. Hey, I, I’m looking at a new terminal tool, you know, maybe, maybe this isn’t enough. What should I try? Oh, well, you know what? This, this, this warp stuff has been really useful. [00:18:01] Let me give that a shot. [00:18:03] Brett: Yeah. I think it’s really smart. [00:18:05] Jeffrey: And like, I mean, a really, my like, small example is setup, started doing, you know, how do you clean install, you know, when there’s a new operating system then there you are. I, I was wondering if you two probably understand this better than me, but in terms of seo, so if a, if a, if a company that’s making a terminal, that’s the main thing they’re doing right? [00:18:22] Um, is also posting on all this stuff that is Unix based or whatever else. Does the fact that they at the top level are a terminal site, give them extra SEO juice when then they have things about change modification and stuff like that? I don’t, how does that occultism work in that case? [00:18:39] Christina: I have no idea. [00:18:40] Brett: It’s fucking black magic to [00:18:41] Jeffrey: I know, man, Danny Sullivan’s here with [00:18:44] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna say Danny Sullivan would know, uh, I think he’s, I think he went to Google, actually, but, uh, but yeah, no, he would know. I have no idea. Although I do know that that’s something like Microsoft struggled with a lot and um, GitHub I think does a better job. And Microsoft had a whole team where they have a whole team involved, but how good they were, I think depends on what product they’re working at. [00:19:05] But we had things where then this was sort of embarrassing. Like I remember one time like, maybe I shouldn’t say this. Nah, fuck it, I’ll say it. Um, we were. You know, writing, you know, um, cause we helped a lot with documentation and Azure stuff and, and a guy on our team, Thomas, who he’s no longer a developer advocate, but he still works at Microsoft. [00:19:21] He’s on one of the product teams. He was an mvp, uh, when we hired him. And MVPs are basically like, they’re kind of like community members who are maybe given early access to things. What they, they help out in the community and, and they, you know, um, uh, are kind of like our, our superfans uh, developers. Um, Google has, has a program to, GitHub has one, most, most companies have these sorts of programs. [00:19:47] And his blog, because he continued blogging after he got the job, would often rank higher than the official documentation when you would be searching for how to do something in Azure. Like, it was crazy that his blog would rank naturally higher in, in SERP than the freaking docs would. And I was, and I, I, like, I was trying to, I, I like. [00:20:08] We were, we were talking about the problems with that one time, and I wasn’t on the SEO team, but I kind of like went off on it. I was in a group meeting and I was like, you cannot say that the SEO team has it together. When Thomas’s blog ranks higher consistently, it’s like clearly, [00:20:21] Jeffrey: Hm. [00:20:21] Brett: the authority score for my personal blog is insane. Like if I write about a topic for a company I’m working for, my post will show up ahead in Google and in duck dot go. Um, there’s something like I have built a trust score. I don’t understand how all of these scores work, but like my, my blog, if it matches the right keywords, I can rank higher than major corporations and it’s kind of nuts. [00:20:55] Christina: That’s cool. [00:20:57] Jeffrey: We’ve seen it happen when, uh, we’ve been working together and trying to solve some problem, and you search something and you’re [00:21:02] Christina: and then you find like Brett’s [00:21:03] Jeffrey: I wrote about this [00:21:05] Christina: oh yeah, I wrote about this. Here’s where it is. I [00:21:07] Jeffrey: it’s also kind of what happened to you by going on automators, right? Like it, it, that’s a much more direct, kind of mechanical version of what happens with seo, but it’s just like that authority score. [00:21:17] I forgot about that. I remember back in the day, uh, we were always like, I, when I worked at a magazine, Always shooting to get like a, a laughing squid, uh, link or like, you know, [00:21:27] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:21:28] Jeffrey: maybe obviously [00:21:29] Christina: the Holy Grail. Yeah. The holy Grail was, is always, was always, um, if you could get a, um, a Drudge Report link. [00:21:37] Brett: Sure. [00:21:38] Jeffrey: Oh yeah, I got those. Hell [00:21:40] Christina: yeah. Those, those, [00:21:41] Jeffrey: a major source of traffic from my blog, [00:21:43] Christina: yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? If you can get a Drudge, drudge link, like [00:21:47] Brett: Do you remember [00:21:48] Christina: wow. Yes. Uh, R [00:21:51] Jeffrey: I had a falling out with Dig when I was a magazine editor. I realized that they were try, I realized, and this was just so naive of me, but I realized that in our conversations to talk about how we might use dig, and this was already in like third generation dig in like 2011 or something. [00:22:07] Maybe it was second generation dig, but it took me a long time to realize that the, what they were suggesting was that I’d pay them to show up higher in their results. Which like, I was so naive about it that I was like, I refused to do this. I like got super punk rock. I’m like, fuck no man, I trust dig links, [00:22:24] It was a very ugly argument. [00:22:26] Christina: funny. [00:22:26] Jeffrey: But, or like Buzzfeed was like that before they got super scammy, uh, you know, like ad wise. Um, that, that used to really matter, man. [00:22:35] Brett: have either of you ever been fire balled? [00:22:37] Jeffrey: When Gruber gets you. [00:22:39] Christina: your site goes down. [00:22:40] Jeffrey: Yeah, no, I was never writing on that stuff. [00:22:42] Brett: had, I’ve had a couple of blogs crashed by Fireballs. [00:22:47] Christina: personal blog, um, stuff that you’ve written about, You know, um, for, for two or Mashable or Gizmoto have been linked, but never my personal stuff, which thank God, although that would’ve, that would’ve always been a goal, right? Like, that would’ve been great, but Yeah. But being Fireball or like, uh, what was it slash out effect that I think that was the [00:23:05] Jeffrey: Oh slash Jesus. [00:23:06] Christina: effect. [00:23:06] And now it’s like the Hacker News, you know, thing or, yeah, [00:23:10] Brett: Yeah. But I, I have found in general, blogs are more resilient these days. Getting a Hacker News link will rarely [00:23:18] Jeffrey: Although I will [00:23:19] Brett: a blog. [00:23:20] Jeffrey: that it is so mu, it is very much common that you go to one of the top hacker news things and you go to that blog and there’s a paragraph just like, sorry, wasn’t expecting that traffic things are a little crazy right now. [00:23:32] Christina: Yeah. There’s like, I’m sorry, this is just a static page because I didn’t know. Stop yelling at me. Nerds. [00:23:39] Jeffrey: I did the right her thing. I made a static page. Uh, yeah. That is good stuff. Anyone else wanna mental health? [00:23:46] Christina: Um, I kind of wanna talk about this, but I kind of don’t. It’s sort of, um, my, my mother-in-law’s, uh, health is not, um, good right now at all. And, um, and so, um, grant is really struggling with that, and I’m really trying to be supportive, but, um, I’m sure I’ll have like more things to say about that, um, as things progress. [00:24:09] But, uh, that’s, that’s kind of been like a, a topic. It is a hard thing. And, um, uh, you know, she’s been in declining health for a while, but, you know, she, I think everybody is now realizing, you know, that, that, that the end is, is coming and, and it, that’s difficult. [00:24:25] Brett: Let’s talk about your mental health in this though. Do you find it, do you find it difficult to be supportive of someone else in a situation that doesn’t maybe directly affect you, like it’s not your mom? Uh, so you have empathy or, or sympathy, uh, for Grant. Do you find it difficult to be the, I I’m asking not because of any judgment on you, because I do personally myself find it difficult to be a really good partner in situations like [00:24:59] Christina: Yeah, no, I, no, I struggle cuz I don’t know exactly what to do. Right? Like, there’s a feeling of of helplessness of of, of not knowing exactly what to do because my instinct always is to try to solve a solution and, and fix things. And there’s not much I can do here. Right? Like we are, you know, 2,500, we’re 3000 miles away. [00:25:20] And, um, you know, he, he has a flight out that he’s going to go see her. I, I really pushed him to go see her. I’m, I’m glad that I did like, book him a flight for Thanksgiving. He wasn’t going to go. And I was just like, no, you’re going. And, and I went to Atlanta and he went to Jacksonville. Um, and, and he saw his mom and, and that was really good. [00:25:39] And he’s, he’s flying. Next week. And I think his, his flight is, is for two weeks. And, um, I’ll probably join him for, for a day or, or, or or two. Um, but I won’t be there the whole time. Um, but, and, and obviously I’ve, and I’ve told him like, look, if, if something, you know, changes suddenly, you know, we’re on a plane as soon as that needs to happen. [00:26:01] And, and I’ll be there like regardless. But yeah, I, I, I, I struggle because in this case, their relationship is, is better than the relationship that he had when he, when, when, when his dad died. That was really difficult. And, and, um, I wasn’t as good of a partner as, as I think he needed me to be. But I was as good of a partner as I, as I could be at that time. [00:26:24] But I, I really didn’t know what to do in that time. Cause I, I’d met his dad twice and he and his dad had a really complicated relationship and I wanted to be supportive, but. I didn’t know how to be in, in the way that would be useful to him. I think I can be more helpful here because I know his mom, I love his mom. [00:26:41] And, um, this is, um, it, it’s just, it’s a different situ. He and his mom have a different relationship. It’s just a little bit different scenario. But yeah, like you, I still struggle. I don’t know exactly what to do and like, you know, um, what, you know, like, yeah, it, it’s, it’s, it’s a challenge because like I, I know, um, how to be supportive, like with my mom. [00:27:06] Like when, when her parents died and when her sister died, like I, I knew what to do. Um, even though, you know, I, I didn’t know what to do, but I knew how to be supportive. I knew me. Just being there was, was enough support. But in a situation like this, there is a lot of uncertainty and then confusion and then you don’t wanna make it about you because it’s not about you, but you wanna be supportive. [00:27:30] But then, you know, there’s also. You know, the, the, the grief that even though she’s not my mom, you know, you go through as well. So it’s just, it’s, it’s a, it’s a struggle. [00:27:39] Brett: Yeah, because it’s not a lack of empathy. Like you feel it, I can see it in your face right now. You’re feeling this and you’re, and you’re relating it to all of your own personal experiences. But I, yeah, I, I hear what you are saying. I would say in my experience, Jeff is way better than the two of us [00:27:59] Christina: I agree. [00:28:00] Brett: at, at this kind of [00:28:02] Christina: I totally [00:28:02] Jeffrey: am not. I am not, [00:28:04] Brett: Jeff, Jeff. Jeff Will, when Jeff knows that something is up for either of us, he will check in just randomly. [00:28:12] Christina: you do it so well. Like, like, okay. Like I’m in a situation right now, which is very different from grants, but I’m also kind of struggling with, and, and I’m, I’m, the way I’m handling that I think is the right way, but I don’t know, is, is, is a friend of mine’s father, um, Right before Thanksgiving, went into the hospital, um, completely unexpected and turned out that he had some sort of, um, autoimmune thing and, um, he’s not gonna make it. [00:28:38] And, and, uh, is completely unexpected. And, um, and she’s, she’s younger than me, so like, this is a total shock. And I, I don’t even know what to, and, and she and I like, were friends with like, not super close, right? So like, I don’t even know what to say to this. It’s, it’s similar. Um, a a girl I worked with very closely for years, her husband died unexpectedly over the summer while she was, while the f whole family was on vacation, he had like a, it was awful, awful right before her, her, um, her youngest, uh, second birthday, like, just fucking terrible. [00:29:11] Like, I, I cannot imagine a worse scenario in my life. Right? And, and I reached out to her a lot and, and donated money and have continued to check in and, and, and share things with her and talk. But like, I don’t even know what to, but what do you even say? What do you even do? Like, how do you even be like a person there and, and, and, and it’s, you know, you, you wanna be supportive, but for me, I’m just like, I, you know, I want people to know that I care that I’m there for them, but like, what do you even say? [00:29:40] What do you even, or should you say anything? You know, like, I don’t [00:29:44] Jeffrey: I, my, um, I, two years ago or so, I found my mom nearly dead on her bedroom floor. Uh, and she had been unconscious for like three days and was in a coma for like two weeks. And, um, and I’m an only child and she’s single, so it was just really me there. I mean, she has tons of siblings, Catholic family and everything, but like, this isn’t necessarily even super helpful, but I’ll say that, like with the two things that I realized being on the other side of things, I, I hadn’t been in something so dire before, you know? [00:30:20] Um, it was not clear she was gonna live and all this stuff. And, uh, and she’s fine now. Um, But anyway, people that texted me or called me and left a message and said, there is no pressure to respond. I just wanna say, I’m thinking of you, da, da, da. Right? Like that line, no pressure to respond. You don’t need to respond, I just want you to know whatever. [00:30:42] Like, there were two different kinds of people really, that, that, that message me or phone or called me One, were the people that said that. And the other were people that just got a little too involved, you know? Um, wanted to relate my story to their story, wanted to, you know, whatever. And I’m, I was just, my brain was just [00:31:00] Christina: not there. Absolutely. [00:31:01] Jeffrey: I don’t wanna talk right now, , and I’m not, this is not this, this trauma is not an invitation for yours. [00:31:07] Christina: Exactly. Well, no. Well, well, no. Well, that, well, that, that’s always the thing. Right? And, and I actually, it’s funny you say that. I said that exactly to Samantha. I was like, you like when her husband died? I was like, you do not need to respond to me. I just want you to know I’m thinking of you. But, but, sorry, sorry. [00:31:20] Go on. So, [00:31:20] Jeffrey: No, I think that’s powerful. And then the other one is, is fucking GrubHub cards. Uh, Uber Eats cards, whatever, like I know do. So I, even just recently, we had a little medical thing in our family and there were a couple people that just sent us those cards and man eaten off of a card. Um, somehow, even though you don’t really give a shit that you’re spending money, right, in a certain sense, but it’s just such a nice, easy thing that feels like way more than you’d think it would. [00:31:47] You know, I would’ve never guessed until I had that experience. And so now I try to like, you know, throw, throw a card their way, get some people to put money on it, whatever that, and just saying, you don’t need to respond, but I’m thinking of [00:31:59] Brett: I do better with people going through grief. I have had enough people reach out to me and help me with grief that I actually have learned how to appropriately help someone with grief. And in exactly the way you’re talking about, like, not making it my own, but like offering like, Hey, I, I, I know what you’re going through. [00:32:22] Here’s, uh, a book or a GrubHub guard or et cetera. And, and then I’m gonna leave you alone and, and if you wanna reach out, I’m here for you. It’s when people are going through, uh, end of life stuff, when people are going through major medical situations with loved ones that I’m not as good. . Like, I don’t, I don’t know how to be there for them without being in the way. [00:32:52] And it, it’s, it’s, it’s tough for me. I don’t know why. [00:32:56] Jeffrey: I feel like it’s the same, it’s the same advice. Like [00:32:59] Christina: Yeah, that’s [00:33:00] Jeffrey: I ha having been only on the side of my mom, like basically I didn’t know if she was gonna be a vegetable or whate, whatever. Like, I, I was realizing constantly like, wow, this doesn’t feel like I thought it would, this doesn’t feel like, I assume people feel when they’re going through this, you know, you, you still feel just enough like yourself that again, a thing, like a meal card or just a note like, Hey, I’m just thinking of you really pops through. [00:33:25] Christina: Oh no, it is because, cause it is, well, I mean, if anything like, like for instance like with Grant’s mom Grant is a little bit different. Like I feel like I can, I can probably help. Or do do the right things, you know, to, to my friend who, you know is, is losing her father. Like, that’s awful. Um, but, but I feel like I can be supportive in the right way. [00:33:45] Is there, it’s, it’s difficult when it’s like your partner because it, it, it, it just, it it is, [00:33:51] Jeffrey: God, totally. Yeah. And I don’t mean to be addressing it [00:33:53] Christina: Oh no. Oh, I know, I know you don’t. I know, I know you are. I’m just saying like, for me, I think I struggle with that. But to your point, like it is still grief, right? Like, because when you’re watching someone decline, you know what’s coming. [00:34:05] And even if they get better, it’s still grieving for like, you’re still going through that process because you don’t know what’s going to happen next. Right? Like [00:34:13] Brett: sense. [00:34:14] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. [00:34:15] Brett: can’t send them teardrop soup until someone has passed. [00:34:19] Christina: it Exactly. Right. That’s the thing, [00:34:20] Brett: Or Tear soup. Tear soup. That’s the book. Mike Rose sent me that book, uh, tear Soup. Um, and when I was grieving for, when I lost my pit bull and because honestly pet deaths have, like, I’ve lost a lot of friends, I’ve lost family. [00:34:40] Like a lot of people in my life have died, but nothing has ever hit me as hard as the pets I’ve lost. Um, cuz I don’t have kids. So I’ve ne I’ve never, I’ve never, I’ve never come close to dealing with the loss of a child that I can’t imagine. [00:34:56] Christina: No, I think that that would look on the scale. That has to probably be, I, I don’t even know. Right. Like [00:35:02] Brett: I can’t even fathom. Uh, but like, but, but Mike sent me tear soup and that. I, I cried when I read it and immediately was nothing but grateful. And now when I have friends in grief over any of, of any kind, I, I go, go to Amazon and I ordered them tier soup. [00:35:28] Christina: Yeah, no, and I used your advice, I’ve actually sent that to a couple of people and for, for, for Pets and I, and it, and it’s, uh, it’s such a good book and it, it’s wonderful. Um, but yeah, but that’s the thing, right? Yeah. You can’t send something like that until laughter the person is gone. But you can send them, like when they’re in the hospital. [00:35:45] The, the GrubHub thing, that was a great reminder. We, Samantha, that helped a lot with, with her was like, there was a meal train and there was some other things, and there was like a GoFundMe, because again, it was completely unexpected. 39 years old, you don’t expect somebody to be on vacation with their family drop dead, like fucking horrific out of the country. [00:36:05] So that was a whole thing [00:36:06] Jeffrey: Oh my [00:36:06] Christina: don’t, so I, I, I can’t even imagine, honestly, like I, we didn’t talk about it here because it was, I a, I didn’t wanna, it was not about me and I didn’t wanna make it about me, but it did impact like my mental health a lot over the summer just because, you know, like I loved her so much, but I can’t even imagine being in another country. [00:36:24] Um, they’re in Turks and Caicos with two, um, small children, losing my spouse and then having to figure out like, how, how do you get the body out? How do you, like, what do you do? Like, I mean, you know what I mean? Like, they’re just [00:36:34] Brett: technical considerations. Yeah. [00:36:36] Christina: They’re, I mean, like, honestly, like you, you gotta call the consulate, I’m sure. [00:36:39] I’m sure that they’re pro like weird covid thing. Just, I, I don’t even wanna imagine. Um, and, and the fact that she also was having to raise two little boys at the same time, still be mom, like I just strong. So, yeah. So, you know, ha, the, the, the meals she said really helped. And then we sent her like an edible arrangement for the funeral because I didn’t know if like they wanted, uh, you know, flowers or not, or, and I couldn’t get information from the funeral home to really like find out like what the deal was going to be. [00:37:08] And I, I didn’t wanna bug her to ask too many details. So instead I was just like, okay, we’ll send an edible arrangement to the house after the funeral. Um, and, and, and she loved it. And, um, you know, we, we did some other things, but it was just like, you know, you just, you feel just, but, but that, I, I, I think that’s good advice. [00:37:28] Um, I’m gonna send, uh, my friend who, who’s, you know, what their family is going through right now. I’m gonna send her a hundred dollars, um, uh, GrubHub card right now, actually. That’s, that’s [00:37:38] Brett: Good call. [00:37:39] Christina: Yeah. [00:37:40] Jeffrey: Because it’s funny, right? Because I think that, I know that I assume when somebody’s going through something, like even just what you described Christina, with your friend out of the country, like I assume that they’re on some special plane of grief, um, that I can’t access. But in fact, they’re dealing with just one bullshit decision after another. [00:37:58] Right? And in that sense, it’s a lot easier to imagine your meal card cutting through that than cutting through some high state of, [00:38:05] Christina: Well, that’s [00:38:05] Jeffrey: of [00:38:05] Christina: the thing. Well, that’s the thing. When you don’t have to make the decision, when you don’t have to make the decision about who, who food is coming from or, or anything like that. Right. Like, you know, when you don’t have to, you just, you know, go forward. Yeah. [00:38:17] Brett: why people bring casseroles to wakes, [00:38:20] Christina: totally. [00:38:20] Jeffrey: Well, and it also, I know for me, with my mom, like it meant that I did eat, [00:38:24] Christina: Yeah, well [00:38:25] Jeffrey: I was, I was living in that hospital ICU for like a week and I would just be like, ah, fuck it. I’ll go get a bag of chips in the vending machine later, but instead I could get Thai food delivered. It made a huge differe. [00:38:37] Brett: Um, Jeff, I wanna hear from you before I do a terrible sponsor break. [00:38:43] Jeffrey: That’s a good way to set it up. That’s why we have all the listeners and the money, um, [00:38:48] Christina: is why we have all the money. [00:38:49] Jeffrey: Yeah. Uh, I am, I’m doing really good today. Uh, I, um, I don’t have a lot to sort of report coherently, um, publicly , but like, just that, you know, just picking up actually on, um, the job thing we were talking about for so long, I, I’m pretty close to having an end date to my project that has been going for almost five years. [00:39:19] Um, sometime in the spring, most likely. And, uh, I’ll be 48 and. I know I don’t wanna go back to an office, which I guess is easier now than it used to be to not go back to an office. But I also have thought a lot about how projects that I’ve built, that I’ve worked on, that are sort of trauma facing, they do this work around juvenile justice, um, are, are, are sort of almost really ought to be a relic of my past as, as weird as that may sound because it was a different me that needed to always do trauma facing work. [00:39:57] Um, and I think I was a little past that even when I started this project, but I didn’t realize it yet. And I’ve just had a lot happen over the last few years that’s caused just a ton of growth and sort of reconciliation with hard things. And I actually feel like what’s complicated about deciding what’s next is that I don’t think there’s a direct pathway out of what I have been doing. [00:40:24] To whatever it is that I want to do, because I don’t want to do, I want to have a season of not doing trauma facing work in my life. A season in my life of not doing that. Um, I’ve never had such a season . Uh, well, from the time I stopped being a drummer in a punk rock band in 1998, [00:40:42] Brett: when, when you immediately went into fucking journalism [00:40:45] Jeffrey: no, I, not even that, I went straight to like, activism and aid work in Iraq and, you know, journalism didn’t even come for another like five years. [00:40:54] Um, and so I’m just, I’ve kind of realized in therapy and elsewhere that it’s like, oh, you know, I’ve kind of settled that part of me. Maybe I shouldn’t just build something up that kind of forces me into a sort of trauma, um, hunter gatherer phase. [00:41:10] Brett: Yeah. How do you, how do you redefine like that? Is, that, is the, you I know, is someone who, who puts themselves into trauma facing situations, uh, to document them, to aid in and remedying them. Like, I, I don’t, I don’t know how you redefine [00:41:37] Jeffrey: Me neither. That’s why it’s, that’s why it’s sitting here in Mental Health Corner [00:41:41] Brett: yeah. Right. [00:41:44] Jeffrey: I’m not stressed about it at all. I’m, I’m actually just really grateful to have that awareness cuz um, you know, I’m also in just a weird point in time where it’s like jobs I would’ve gotten in the past aren’t really available to me in the same way, um, that they used to be. [00:42:01] Uh, and it’s, it’s nothing like what it’s like for women. And I would say that I’m reaching a point as a man that if I could be hired in journalism, it would be by other men, um, of my age or older who are absolutely not the cohort I want to be working. Um, ever again, . I’m just like, I hated that about journalism. [00:42:24] I hated it. All these men who failed up and became managers and hired more men that, that they liked and, and thought they were radical when they hired a woman. Um, you know, that’s just a scene that, I mean, I’m not even saying I’m welcome in that scenario anymore, but [00:42:43] Brett: Yeah. [00:42:44] Jeffrey: Anyway, let’s tune in next year to see what happens to Jeff Um, I don’t know if I could get paid a lot of money to just work on old machines in my garage. That’d be fucking fine. I’ve, I’ve done [00:42:57] Christina: I, I mean, totally. [00:42:58] Brett: is, is there a way? Is, is there a profession [00:43:03] Christina: Can you make a YouTube channel? [00:43:04] Jeffrey: I’ve thought about the YouTube channel, but you know, those people, they don’t end up happy. [00:43:08] Christina: I know. I’m [00:43:08] Jeffrey: You, you will end up serving the, serving the channel. That’s what I worry about. [00:43:13] Brett: the most when we were kids? I’m willing to bet you guys when they asked you what, what you want it to be when you grow up. You said things like fireman, uh, astronaut, like we had weird aspirations. Unrealistic. Do you know what the most common Gen Z response is? Yes, [00:43:34] Christina: YouTuber. [00:43:36] Brett: YouTuber. [00:43:37] Jeffrey: Hey, look, I, I actually would love, so the , there is a whole genre of YouTube channel that’s just literally no narration tool restoration. And there are people that do that work that get 4 million hits a video, [00:43:52] Brett: Jesus. [00:43:52] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:43:53] Jeffrey: saying anything. I mean, [00:43:55] Brett: do. You do, you know the, like a YouTube, when you watch your favorite YouTuber and they do a sponsor break, do you have any idea how much they get paid for that sponsor break? [00:44:08] Jeffrey: Oh. So the ones that don’t get cut out when you have premium, like that kind of situation. [00:44:13] Brett: the ones that are, [00:44:14] Christina: varies. [00:44:15] Brett: the ones that are part of the actual YouTube itself, they’re five digits plus. Like I, we don’t get that kind of money for our sponsor spots and like you get a YouTube channel with even, you know, 250,000 subscribers, you can make bank on those sponsor spots. It’s crazy to me. [00:44:42] Jeffrey: You know what drives my, my boys nuts is if I help them with something and they’re like, oh, thanks. As I’m leaving, I go, Hey, don’t forget to match that subscribe button. pisses them off so much. [00:44:54] Brett: Remember to turn on alerts. Um, [00:44:56] Jeffrey: right. [00:44:57] Brett: do you mind if I take a, a [00:44:59] Jeffrey: No sponsor it. Sponsor: Rocket Money [00:45:00] Brett: feels like a perfect segue so anyone who knows me knows about my robo down fetish. Um, I have subscribed to multiple robot dominatrix services over the years, and I get a lot of dirty pleasure from submitting to dominant, sexy mechanical entities. [00:45:20] But those subscriptions pile up over time and it’s really easy to lose track of which Elon Electronic overlords I’m serving. And I need a quick way to see all of my subscriptions and cancel the ones that I’m done with. That’s why I love using Rocket. Formerly known as truebill. The app shows you all of your subscriptions in one place and then cancels for you whatever you don’t still want. [00:45:46] Rocket Money can even find subscriptions you didn’t know you were paying for, and you may even find out that you’ve been double charged for a subscription. To cancel Sub to cancel a subscription, all you have to do is press cancel, and rocket money takes care of the rest. Get rid of useless subscriptions with Rocket Money now. [00:46:07] Go to Rocket money.com/ Overtired. Seriously, it could save you hundreds per year. That’s Rocket money.com/ Overtired. Cancel your unnecessary subscriptions right now@rocketmoney.com slash Overtired. And if you wanna curb your submission to the sexy, sexy robot overlords, check out Rocket money.com/overtired. [00:46:34] Jeffrey: I wanna point out that you’ve somehow found a way to segue Mental Health Corner every episode into you working out your weird fetishes [00:46:42] Brett: I feel, I, I, I feel like it’s part of my mental health situation to just really to shine shed light. Right? Like [00:46:53] Jeffrey: Yeah. You’re a voice for the voiceless. Yeah. You’re a voice for the voiceless. It’s really amazing. Light and dark corners, brother Podcast Swap: Best Advice Show [00:47:00] Brett: I would also like to tell everyone about another podcast that we, we love, uh, we love them because they’re also talking about us. This is a promo swap. [00:47:11] Jeffrey: It doesn’t take much for us to love you. [00:47:15] Brett: The best advice show is your reminder that there are weird, delightful, and effective ways to make your life slightly and sometimes profoundly better. And, Very short episode of the show, A different contributor offers to take, offers, their take on making life more joyful, helpful, and livable. And it’s likely gonna be something you can try out today if you want. [00:47:41] What I love about the show is you can get in and get out. You can learn a tangible, actionable nugget of advice and then get on with your day. The host, Zach Rosen, talks to well-known people like Happiness Guru, Gretchen Rubin, and filmmaker Mike Mills, but also his friends and his daughter and his listeners. [00:48:02] The best advice show available wherever you listen to Overtired. What, what? Uh, out of the, you, you added three topics. Jeff, I wanna talk about these common passwords. Your Shitty Passwords Are Safe Here [00:48:13] Jeffrey: Yeah, let’s do that cuz the other two kind of go together. So this is funny cuz Nord VPN is sometimes a sponsor and this is a list gathered, uh, with financing from Nord Pass. [00:48:24] Brett: set us up. [00:48:24] Jeffrey: So basically Nord um, Nord Pass released a two top 200 most common passwords. You can find a link in the show notes. Um, and it’s actually something where they worked with independent researchers who specialize in cybersecurity incidents. [00:48:41] Basically there’s a database of all the password leaks and they analyze those. Um, in this case it was a three terabyte database, um, of all of these leaks that they analyzed to come up with the top 200 passwords. Now I’ll get us just past the past the cruft. I mean, right off the bat you’ve got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. [00:49:04] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. You’ve got Quarty. That’s just that row on your your deal, right? Here’s something I love, which is that in the 22 spot, I love you, [00:49:15] Brett: So I, down at the bottom, they have like different breakdowns for fashion brands, artists video games, swear words fascinates me because 21,223,000, some passwords were just, fuck, [00:49:33] Christina: yeah, [00:49:34] Brett: their password was just, [00:49:35] Christina: well, well, well fuck you. Is is number 56 on this year’s list with 1,000,560 2037. And I have to say, I, I think that I, not for any current passwords, uh, cuz I used password manager and I don’t even know most my passwords, but fuck off has definitely been a password that I’ve used before. [00:49:54] Jeffrey: You’re just not in the mood for that shit right now. [00:49:56] Christina: Well, because, because, and often, oftentimes, oftentimes we’d be like, for, you know, a service that they make, you sign up for a pa, sign up for an account and you don’t want to, and you’re like, I’m never gonna use this again. Be like, fuck off. [00:50:06] Jeffrey: yes, yes, [00:50:07] Brett: sure. But let me just put it out there. If you add some spaces and some extra words, if you wrote, fuck, write the hell off with spaces between each word, you would reduce the crack ability of the password [00:50:20] Christina: yeah. Oh yeah, I, I If it was go space, fuck space yourself. Um, explanation Mark. Um, uh, that would be like, uh, a very difficult to crack password. [00:50:32] Jeffrey: you know, yeah. Fuck, you may not be that simple, but I would like to, uh, I would like to point you to number 1 31. Fuck you, one. [00:50:39] Christina: See that? I saw that. I, I appreciate this. Also weirdly, in, in, in the top and the top list. MySpace one. Who the fuck is still using MySpace? [00:50:48] Brett: exactly what Better password than a dead social media [00:50:53] Jeffrey: Oh my God. Um, okay, so Brett’s talking about on the homepage for this top 200, you can look at like movies. They have these special, uh, lists. So, uh, and you had cuss words, swear words, [00:51:06] Brett: What is Leon? I don’t even know what Leon is. [00:51:10] Jeffrey: in the movie thing. Well, that’s like, well, hold on, go back to swear words because I learned that mist is German for like, well, it said it might be German for dang, but, which isn’t really exciting. [00:51:19] But, um, you got putta in there, like it’s a little international, uh, the list, but it’s mostly swears we know in English. [00:51:28] Brett: Because if you do it in a foreign language, it’s less Crackable [00:51:31] Jeffrey: um, okay. Christ Christina. I’m at the art, the top 10 artists, and Taylor Swift is not in that top 10. [00:51:38] Christina: Okay, good. That’s because swifties know better Swifties know [00:51:41] Jeffrey: right. That’s, that’s the point. Yeah. [00:51:44] Brett: Metallica and Eminem are [00:51:47] Christina: Uh, [00:51:47] Jeffrey: Metallica comes in after the Eagles fucking boomers. [00:51:51] Christina: after Eagles? Yeah, I was. That’s an awful lot of fucking, um, now, now what’s interesting, pink, pink they have is the artist. I think that’s just the color because a, any true pink fan would use the [00:52:02] Jeffrey: Yeah, that makes no sense. Who, what fucking service is allowing you to use U2 [00:52:08] Christina: Thank [00:52:08] Brett: Yeah, exactly. How do you, [00:52:10] Jeffrey: That makes no [00:52:11] Brett: with a two character [00:52:13] Jeffrey: I’m calling bullshit on that one. [00:52:14] Christina: Yeah. Also [00:52:15] Brett: million. [00:52:17] Christina: Yeah. Is it, are we sure that’s just not in the password? There are a couple of other, um, two letter ones in cars. VW is number four. Like there’s no way, [00:52:24] Jeffrey: yeah, yeah, [00:52:25] Christina: letting you have like a two letter password. [00:52:28] Jeffrey: I wonder if they’re just cutting off numbers, uh, for [00:52:31] Christina: what I’m thinking. That that’s what it has to be. That’s what it has to be. [00:52:35] Jeffrey: I’m really sad that X X X has such a weak showing at number 200. [00:52:40] Christina: Honestly. Honestly. Uh, g uh, yeah. This has to be just like them cutting stuff off. Cause like, GTA is, is, um, number five on video [00:52:49] Jeffrey: Right. Okay. Right, right, [00:52:50] Christina: million whatnot. And like I, I could see somebody being like, GTA password or gta, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4 or whatever for their grant theft point. Oh online, um, login, which, you know, fair. [00:53:03] Um, I have to say I don’t reuse passwords and I use a password manager and al and half for a long time. But there are some things where I. I don’t care if this gets leaked because I don’t have any payment information or anything else to it, where sometimes I will use a very obvious, very bad password just because I’m like, I, I, I don’t care enough to even open up the [00:53:22] Jeffrey: Are you one of the, are you one of the 840,000 people using Justin [00:53:27] Christina: Ooh, yeah. [00:53:29] Brett: even, even in cases where I don’t care, like I’m not going to use this service in correlation with anything else. And if [00:53:38] Christina: agree. Yeah. [00:53:40] Brett: even in those situations, I will use a three word phrase with spaces. I, I love that spaces are loud and passwords cuz I can just type [00:53:52] Christina: Well, some passwords, [00:53:55] Brett: Mo most, most passwords will allow you to use a space, [00:53:59] Christina: I don’t know. I, I, I, I, I, I run into so many ex uh, uh, um, exceptions with that for certain [00:54:04] Brett: If, if I run into an exception, I’ll use an underscore, but but a three word phrase and I will, and, and on services that I really don’t care about, I will reuse a password and [00:54:17] Christina: I was, I was gonna say, do you reuse the thing cuz? Cuz at that point, [00:54:20] Brett: shortcut to insert that password. Like it’s, it’s built, it’s hard coded into my key bindings to like just insert this fucking generic password that if this service got compromised and this password is compromised anywhere else it was used, I also wouldn’t care. [00:54:40] Christina: Yeah, I, um, I used to use, uh, for, um, uh, this was for a shared password service, I think it was called Pass pack. This, that was one of the early enterprise focus, like password manager things. Um, we, you had to have like a, a phrase to get into it, like that’s what they required you to do. And I had a Simpsons quote, and I won’t say which one. [00:54:58] Um, uh, I, cause I don’t think I’ve used it anywhere else, but I’m not opening myself up for that sort of opsec and there are only a hundred million Simpsons quotes you could use. But I found that was [00:55:08] Brett: doctor said my nose wouldn’t bleed if I just cut my fingers out of there. [00:55:12] Christina: Exactly, [00:55:13] Jeffrey: is showing. [00:55:14] Christina: And exactly. And so, but, but that was, I was thinking, I was like, you know, if I had to come up with like something and keep a list of it, obviously still have a, a list of my past phrases, but I was like, that would probably be one of the, one of the best ones I could do. Just because it, you know, I’ve spent my, literally my entire life I’ve spent quoting The Simpsons, so, [00:55:35] Jeffrey: What about, okay, so two things. I want to read my, two of my very favorites, and I know we need to move on, but I also wanna say, do you remember back in the day when you could, um, log into a service by adding your username and password to the url? Did you ever do that? [00:55:48] Brett: Yeah. [00:55:49] Jeffrey: It would be like you, it would be like you, Colin. [00:55:52] Brett: basic authentication. You can still do that with [00:55:54] Jeffrey: can you, [00:55:55] Brett: a lot, most services that have moved on to like token authentication. Uh, no longer accept basic auth, but anything that does still accept basic auth. Even if you ping a 1.0 version of their api, you can still put username, colon password into the URL and log into it [00:56:17] Jeffrey: Wow. The, we’ve [00:56:19] Christina: That’s so bad though. Like [00:56:21] Jeffrey: Okay. [00:56:22] Christina: and when and when we think about it, like that’s literally like one of the worst things you could possibly [00:56:26] Jeffrey: Oh my God. It’s just, it’s horrible. Cause it also means someone’s emailing [00:56:29] Brett: non SSL URLs [00:56:31] Christina: saying. With [00:56:32] Jeffrey: right, right, [00:56:32] Christina: you, you’re literally passing in, in plain text. You’re pa I was like, oh my god. [00:56:36] Jeffrey: yeah. It’s, it’s like the days before you could treat sexually transmitted diseases. Um, so, okay, my two favorites before we move on. Uh, right here at number 1 52, let me in all one word. That’s a good one. And then last year’s number 1 46 Trust. No. One t r u s t N O. Number one. That should have been n zero number one though, really? Harditude [00:57:02] Jeffrey: I mean, if we were really going for it. All right. It’s gratitude time. Yeah. And we’re, we’re switching it up today. [00:57:09] Brett: Yeah, this is what we call it attitude. Har. [00:57:13] Christina: attitude. Which, which I kind of love cuz it’s like, it, it, it ki [00:57:17] Jeffrey: it’s like attitude. There was a band called Attitude, attitude, [00:57:21] Christina: Attitude [00:57:22] Jeffrey: uh, hardware, [00:57:24] Christina: that makes us [00:57:24] Brett: hardware, a hardware week of gratitude. We’re gonna talk about some of our favorite hardware for the week. Uh, I feel like, Christina, you’re ready to go with this. [00:57:35] Christina: Yep. Yep. Okay. So, um, this is a keyboard that I was not expecting to buy last week, but I did, uh, a cuz it was on sale for Black Friday. And b because it turns out I work with the, the, the designer, um, which was wild to me. I was talking to her. and I didn’t realize. So, um, are, are either of you familiar with the Olivia, um, uh, keycaps, um, um, uh, series? [00:58:01] Like the, the, the, the, the theme? So if, if you search G m k Olivia, it’s like one of the most loved, um, keycaps sets, um, that’s come out. And there, there are a million copies of it. Um, and, uh, it, uh, hasn’t been run, I don’t think, since, since 2018, um, or, or, or 2019. Um, so, but, but it’s, it’s, it’s a rose gold theme set anyway. [00:58:24] Um, I work with Olivia at GitHub. Olivia works at [00:58:28] Jeffrey: Really? [00:58:29] Christina: Yeah. And I found this out when we were talking about something unrelated, but she, we were bonding over Rose gold, and she was like, do you have a rose gold keyboard? I was like, I do. And I showed her like a key cap set or whatever that I have. And then I was like, I, I wanted, you know, uh, more of these, but it’s hard to get. [00:58:42] She was like, yeah, it’s gonna be come, you know, coming. Um, there’s gonna be another release in, in, in blah, blah, blah. And I just figured she was really into the keyboard community. And then I realized that one of the, one of the, there was a, a themed Olivia keyboard that, um, uh, notion Keys came out with, um, last year. [00:58:59] Um, and it was, um, 50% off for, um, uh, black Friday. And, um, I, uh, I was, and I asked my friend Helen, I was like, should I buy this? Um, because it’s, it’s 50% off. She’s like, well, you know, Olivia works at, um, novel Keys. Sorry, not Ocean Keys, novel keys. She’s like, she was like, well, you know, Olivia works at GitHub. [00:59:21] And I was like, Wait, what? I’m talking to her right now. And I went back to Olivia and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You’re the Olivia. She was like, yeah. I was like, so I was literally wearing the bandt to the concert, talking to the band, and didn’t even know [00:59:33] Jeffrey: Oh, that’s [00:59:34] Christina: Um, she, she’s also the main developer behind Via, which is like the, the keyboard customization, um, software for, for Q M K, the, the firmware. [00:59:42] Anyway, she’s badass. We’re best friends now, but I bought, because it was 50% off, I bought, um, an NK 65 Olivia edition key word. So, you know, uh, in, in, in, in homage to, uh, my, uh, my new best friend and, um, it’s also, uh, I, I needed to, uh, lube the, um, the stabilizers, um, uh, on, on the, uh, space bar and, and the inner, uh, uh, But, um, the, the, the keys themselves, even though it was a preassembled one, like, and I would’ve been happy to assemble it myself, but, uh, in, in this case, it was actually cheaper to get the keyboard than it would be to buy, um, an aftermarket set of the keys. [01:00:19] Um, but I, but I, I bought, um, uh, the Olivia edition keyboard and I really like it. So that’s, that’s, uh, my, my, my, um, um, attitude and also like, uh, just a hilarious story that I found out that I like [01:00:34] Jeffrey: That’s amazing. [01:00:34] Christina: yeah, I, I, I still can’t believe it, that I’m like, I was like, I’m, I’m literally like, I had no idea. Like, you would’ve thought that I was like trying to like, like suck up to her or something. [01:00:46] I had no clue [01:00:46] Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. [01:00:48] Christina: I, I was like, wait, because Olivia, in my mind, I, there was no way in my mind that I was like, oh yeah, she person who designed that. The, the, the key cap series Olivia is, is Olivia. No. Yeah, same person. She’s great. [01:01:01] Jeffrey: another, you live in Capitol Hill, right? [01:01:02] Christina: I do. [01:01:04] Jeffrey: Yeah. Uh, here’s another story from Capitol Hill, um, in 1992, uh, my friend Marty, she was at a bar and she was drinking with a friend whose other friend showed up, and the three of them were sitting at a table and, um, and, and she asked the guy that had joined them like, well, oh, what do you do? [01:01:22] And he is like, oh, I’m a bass player. She’s like, oh, cool. I’m a bass player too. Da da. Keeps going, keeps going. It was Jeff Ament, the bass player of Pearl Jam , who she had no idea what he even looked like. She said, I’m a bass player too. That’s cool. I’m in a band too. [01:01:35] Christina: Oh my God. I bet he loved that though. [01:01:38] Jeffrey: bet he did. Yeah, you got it. [01:01:39] I mean, you gotta, it’s like perfect. Uh, just an innocent awesome. Just like, yeah. He wasn’t like, I’m a bass player. You might’ve heard of me. I’m the guy in the, I Was he hearing the hat? I never asked her. Like, cuz there’s no excuse for, for missing it if he was wearing the big floppy fat Albert hat. Where the fuck he wore? [01:01:56] Anyway, that you reminded me of that. And it comes from your neighborhood. Um, [01:02:00] Christina: it. [01:02:01] Jeffrey: All right, Brett, you want to go? [01:02:03] Brett: Sure. I, uh, I’m gonna talk about the Wave XLR from El Gado. Um, so I, I use a, uh, sure SM seven B microphone, which is why my voice has this wonderful timber to it. Um, but in order to use it previously, I have run it through a cloud lifter and then through a, uh, scarlet solo, uh, [01:02:33] Jeffrey: two preamps. [01:02:34] Brett: Sure. And, and then a second, uh, cutoff switch for a microphone mute, uh, as a cough button. [01:02:44] And, and I have, I have multiple versions of that. So ultimately 500 plus dollars worth of hardware. Uh, just use this microphone. And then from, as we, uh, as mentioned previously on the show, we, uh, David Sparks, uh, mentioned that he was using the Wave XLR and I decided it’s 150 bucks. I’m gonna give it a shot. [01:03:12] It’s, it’s one big dial that has [01:03:15] Jeffrey: I was gonna say I love that. Yeah. [01:03:19] Brett: is it Watts? I don’t even know what the, the unit is, but 75 decibels. Um, I’m gonna fuck [01:03:28] Jeffrey: 75. What? Its. [01:03:30] Brett: what its, uh, is enough to power the SM seven B on its own. And you can control the mix in your headphones, the headphones volume, and the microphone gain all from one big dial, uh, right there on your, on your, on your desk. [01:03:49] And it has a capacitive, uh, mute button. So I can just tap the top of this thing and, and it serves as a cough button. Uh, so like literally all I have to do is flail for it, . If, if I need to silence it, I just flail for it. [01:04:08] Jeffrey: you don’t hear a cough, but you hear as you try to [01:04:11] Brett: no, I just, it, it’s pretty easy to hit. I keep it right in the middle of my desk and I am very impressed with it. [01:04:18] It is $150 gadget that has. Uh, replace over $500 worth of gear that I am now going to see what I can get for on the used gear market. But, uh, yeah, this is a great little, great little box. And even without the drivers, without the software, like it does exactly what I’ve just said, it would, uh, but with the software that that El Gado provides, you can also patch in multiple audio sources and mix and, and match all of your, uh, different inputs and it will interface very nicely with a stream deck and, and the stream deck plus, which, oh my God, that’s what I want for Christmas. [01:05:06] If anyone wants to get me a Christmas present, send me a stream deck. Plus with the four [01:05:11] Christina: Yeah, I want that too. I want that too. I, I, um, because I have the, the, the, the stream deck, um, um, uh, the big one [01:05:19] Brett: the XL. [01:05:20] Christina: the xl and I didn’t get the mark too because it was just the face plates, even though it looks great. But now the stream deck plus I’m like, oh man, I want this. I have almost the entire el gado like kit of stuff. [01:05:30] I’ve got their lights. I’ve got like the, the, the, um, the, the cam link 4k. I’ve got like the, yeah. Um, [01:05:36] Brett: lights. [01:05:37] Christina: I’ve got, I’ve got like everything, but I, I, I don’t have the Excel, um, um, r because I, um, uh, the, the wave Excel or whatever it is because I have the task cam thing that I’m using now. Didn’t you used to have a road caster? [01:05:51] Brett: Uh, no, I’ve never had the road caster. I, I would be curious again, if someone wants to send it to me, great. But no, I’ve never, I’ve never had the road caster. [01:06:02] Christina: Okay, so eventually when I finally set up all my stuff, which I will be doing hopefully over Christmas, I have, because it’s been sitting here for months, I [01:06:10] Brett: Oh man. [01:06:11] Jeffrey: Oh shit. [01:06:13] Christina: this off on camera. So I have the task cam MixCast four, which is basically their version of the broadcaster. Now, the road caster, they did just come out with a new version, which I think is better, but when I bought mine, the task can was both cheaper and had features that the roader [01:06:28] Jeffrey: you start dropping beats [01:06:30] Christina: I mean, I hope [01:06:31] Jeffrey: all those little [01:06:31] Christina: So, but, but in, in, in my defense, I needed to spend like a certain amount of money, um, that like the comp, like the Microsoft gave me every year for certain things. I needed to spend it before I left. So I had like $1,500 that I had to blow through. So I got that and I got, um, uh, uh, the, um, uh, at four and I got, um, two, no, I got three El Gado, um, or not, not Elga four, um, uh, three Ergotron arms. [01:06:57] So I was just like, bam, there we go. But if I hadn’t, then I would’ve been, I’m really glad to, I’m really glad to know that the Wave XL R works with, um, the, uh, SM seven B because a lot of sub $200 preamp things don’t, so that’s, that’s [01:07:16] Brett: this is the most powerful preamp I’ve ever seen in a sub $500, uh, mixer or, uh, audio interface. [01:07:26] Christina: That’s awesome. Yeah. [01:07:28] Brett: all the amperage you [01:07:29] Christina: Yeah. When you were telling us about it, at first I was confused because I, I was confusing it with them, their microphone. I was like, why would you replace your seven B with this? But, okay, so that, that, that’s why, that’s why I asked, oh, you’re, you’re selling that? I was make money for that. [01:07:42] You’re like, no, I’m gonna keep it. I was like, okay, well that’s weird. Um, so but now, no, now, now, now it makes sense. And, and, um, I, I, I, I got them confused, but El Gado man, like I even have their, their green screen, which I’m gonna have to get installed at some point, cuz I got like the, the one I can mount on the wall and like pull it down. [01:07:59] Like, I, I love their stuff. [01:08:02] Jeffrey: Well, my, uh, attitude is actually. El Gato and it’s, it’s not even like necessarily gratitude, it’s just for anyone who’s considering upgrading from the like, medium size one to the xl. I did that last year. I still don’t feel more than 15 at a time. It looks like the, sorry. Yeah, I’m talking about the stream deck xl, which has like, what, 28? [01:08:24] Christina: It was too big for me. I didn’t need it. I would’ve. [01:08:28] Jeffrey: it looks so sad. Like I have one for when I’m on Zooms and it just looks like I bought a house that’s way too big for me and then went back on tour, [01:08:35] Christina: Yeah, totally. [01:08:36] Jeffrey: the early rockstar move. Um, so just to anybody who’s wondering really just game it out. Cuz other than the fact that the form factor is fucking awesome on this thing, uh, I don’t need it. [01:08:48] Christina: Yeah. I would say for people, if you don’t know, we’ve talked about this before and actually this is good gratitude. So this, this kind of takes us back. If you are not sure if you, um, would benefit from a steam deck. Stream deck, sorry. The steam deck is also great, but if you do not know, uh, if you would benefit from a stream deck, El Gado sells a stream deck app in the app store that has the same functionality. [01:09:10] It doesn’t have the tactile buttons obviously, but has the same functionality. I think it’s like $30 for a year subscription. I think you can also do it monthly. What I’d recommend doing is. that app out and, and doing the subscription, you know, for a month or a year or whatever. As, as a test, see if you get benefit out of it. [01:09:29] If you do, if it’s something you realize, oh, I’m gonna benefit from this, then go ahead and buy a physical one. Um, you can also use the two together, which is really useful and they can kind of sync. So if [01:09:41] Jeffrey: You can use the little one and the big one together. [01:09:43] Brett: I use, I use, I have a 15 key one and I have a six key mini, and I use the 15 key one to determine what displays on the six key mini. Uh, so I have like pages of buttons on my 15 key, and I, I can just press a button on that and it will change what’s displayed on the mini, which is front, like the, the 15 keys to the left of my keyboard on a keyboard tray. [01:10:11] But the mini is front and center on the top of my desk. And, uh, so like, say I’m in a Zoom meeting, I just hit the zoom button on the 15 key and all of my buttons on my mini change to buttons for muting my microphone, turning video on and off, leaving the meeting sharing screen and like very context sensitive [01:10:34] Jeffrey: It also, it allows you to be super chaotic. You just start hitting all those buttons, you know, [01:10:39] Brett: Yeah. [01:10:41] Jeffrey: Awesome. Well, good to see y’all again. [01:10:44] Christina: Yes. Good [01:10:45] Brett: I’m late for therapy as we speak. [01:10:47] Christina: Oh, man. Well, [01:10:48] Brett: My, my therapy, my therapy session started 12 minutes ago and I sent an email saying, Hey, I got a meeting running long. I will be there. Charge me for the full hour. I’ll get there when I get there, [01:11:01] Christina: Well, thank you for, for, for, uh, for, for missing therapy for us. Uh, hopefully we were a good pregame and, uh, yeah, [01:11:10] Brett: Right on. [01:11:11] Jeffrey: Get some sleep [01:11:12] Christina: get some [01:11:12] Brett: some sleep. [01:11:14] Outro: The.

From Ticketmaster shenanigans (and Taylor Swift) to TV Zombies to Black Friday software deals, this episode is perfect for Thanksgiving hangovers. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 40% off your order. Show Links Last Week Tonight on Ticketmaster SK Hynix P31 2TB PCIe NVMe Gen3 M.2 Internal SSD OWC Express 4M2 SN770 The Walking Dead Daryl Dixon Rob Bricken’s Walking Dead recap Forklift Path Finder Michael Tsai Black Friday 2022 HoudahSpot Mountain Duck LaunchControl from SomaZone Fantastical Teleprompter Premium (4.99 for Black Friday) Soulver 3 for half off Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 308 [00:00:00] Christina: [00:00:02] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired, a podcast where I’m not angrily ranting for once. I’m Christina Warren, joined as always by my friends, Brett Terpstra and Jeff Severns Guntzel Boys. How are you doing [00:00:19] Brett: You’re not angrily ranting yet, but the night is young [00:00:22] Christina: The okay. The, the, the, the episode is young, but I’m not like that. That’s not all I’m doing. Let’s say that. [00:00:28] Jeff: Hello. [00:00:31] This is where the ticketmaster talk starts [00:00:31] Brett: Yeah. Um, so Christina, you, you had a, you had a, a cameo last week, uh, as you dealt with some, uh, Taylor Swift ticket issues, [00:00:43] Christina: Yes. [00:00:44] Brett: we’re all on the edge of our seats to know how that turned out. Did your mom get tickets? How are things going? [00:00:49] Christina: No, no, no, she did not. Uh, because they canceled the general sale. So, uh, my, uh, my best attempt at getting tickets for Atlanta where I had tickets in [00:01:00] my cart, I hit, I hit checkout, I checked out, and then because my dad’s phone was off, he did not get a code that I needed to check out. Um, yeah, so that happened. [00:01:12] Christina: I was able to successfully get some tickets for the Seattle show using someone else’s Capital One credit card, because [00:01:20] Brett: What’s in their wallet? [00:01:22] Christina: even though my, my, my dad was like, I will have my phone next to me. I was like, I do not trust you. [00:01:29] Jeff: A bond has been broken. I have a, I have a question for you, Christina. How, how well do you grasp this current, um, lawsuit situation around Live Nation and whatever else? [00:01:41] Christina: Well, okay. I don’t know really how much of a case there is for it, to be completely honest. Like, I feel like the DOJ. Video J should have been investigating Ticketmaster for years. And, and honestly, I consider it a massive failure of the Obama administration that they allowed, um, Ticketmaster and Live Nation to merge in 2011 to begin with. [00:01:58] Christina: Right. Like [00:02:00] every, it is sort of funny to see all these Democrats like decrying this, and I’m like, okay, let’s not forget whose congress, whose senate and whose presidency this was under. [00:02:08] Brett: Obama was not great for monopoly uh, issues. [00:02:13] Christina: no, but I’m also, but, but I’m just saying like this, this was 2011. This was not like when, this was not an era when, uh, Democrats, um, did not have, uh, a say and, and it wasn’t like we were split down the middle. Like we are right now. Right? So, um, let’s just be honest about that situation. So I, I think that this is a merger that anybody with, with common sense knows never should have happened. [00:02:40] Christina: Uh, but I don’t know how much of how strong the DOJ case here is. And, and how much of this is just politicians bloviating. I am glad that because so many politicians clearly could not get Taylor Swift tickets, that they’re angry about this. Um, and, and maybe that will change some things. Um, but I [00:03:00] don’t know the, the big egregious aspect of the wholesale to me as we’ve gotten more information, like, look, I’m mad about like my own like bad luck in this. [00:03:08] Christina: Um, I did get tickets to two shows. I will be buying tickets from my mom and I cuz my mom really wants to go. And now she’s like, oh, it just wasn’t meant to be. And I’m like, hell no. will spend what it costs. And I don’t wanna, I mean, this is the part that pisses me off. I’m even willing to buy like scallops tickets. [00:03:27] Christina: But then the scalpers charge 50% fees, 50% of what the ticket price is. So it’s not even like a, a fee price. So like if you were to be dumb enough to buy $12,000 tickets from StubHub, StubHub is then going to charge you $6,000 in fees. That is obscene. [00:03:44] Jeff: that’s [00:03:45] Christina: That’s obscene. Also, it’s obscene that, that, you know, like they, there are ways that you can prevent tickets from being transferred. [00:03:53] Christina: And I, I’m not a fan of being like, only the people who can go are people who actually bought the tickets. Cuz that’s kind of [00:04:00] fucked up, right? Like real life things happen and, and if you wanted to buy them for people, like, I don’t know, that just feels like going too far. But there are things that they could absolutely do where like they see these tickets going for these prices on these services. [00:04:13] Christina: They could absolutely go reach out to these services and be like, No, you can’t sell for these shows, or we’re going to ban, you know, we’re, we’re going to go through the, the, the line and, and find this stuff out. Um, but, uh, I, I don’t know. I mean, the, the clusterfuck of the, of the sale, the fact they canceled the general sale, the thing that has me as a conspiracy theorist, and I don’t think this is much of a conspiracy, they didn’t sell all the tickets. [00:04:43] Christina: There are still tickets for each show remaining. We don’t know how many, and it probably wasn’t enough to do a general sale, but there are definitely still tickets out there. And at some point Ticketmaster will allow resales, I’m pretty sure, of this show on their platform. And at some point, I’m absolutely convinced whether it’s Ticketmaster [00:05:00] employees, which it probably will be, or they’ll do it in other ways. [00:05:03] Christina: These remaining tickets are going to hit the open market, not at, at the, the face prices. Um, as, as you know, um, raises those might have been because of various v i p packs and other things. So there’s, I think it’s just like the lack of transparency with all this that has, uh, that is probably worthy of investigation, um, hilariously. [00:05:26] Christina: The, you know, the focal point of this, everyone has been complaining about this for, for 25 years. I mean, Pearl Jam again famously, uh, went to bat for this. And then when I saw Pearl Jam in concert in the year 2000, I got my tickets from Ticketmaster. So Pearl Jam, you know, like Eddie put in the good fight but did not succeed. [00:05:45] Christina: Um, and, uh, you know, um, aeg, who is Ticketmaster’s only competitor, is actually the, the sponsor, the, I guess the promoter of Taylor’s concert. They couldn’t use their own ticketing service because most of the venues have hundred year [00:06:00] plus agreements with, with the Ticketmaster. [00:06:04] Jeff: Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. That’s a, that’s a thing. [00:06:07] Christina: Yeah. [00:06:09] Brett: A hundred year [00:06:09] Christina: thing that should be illegal. [00:06:11] Jeff: Oh my fucking God. [00:06:13] Brett: mean, this whole thing is insane. Like, I can’t believe, I can’t believe they get away with this. Um, I don’t know what kind of regulation needs to happen to, to fix all of these problems. And like, there’s a whole thing with like Verizon and Ticketmaster and like, uh, like, uh, earmarking tickets for, like, specifically for VIP customers and like all this weird stuff that happens and the artists get screwed in all of this. [00:06:42] Brett: It’s not the artists that are benefiting, it’s just Ticketmaster. [00:06:46] Christina: it’s just take a master. Well, that’s the thing, right? When these resales happen, it’s not as if Taylor Swift or Adele or Bruce Springsteen or, you know, even smaller artists are benefiting from the scalping, [00:07:00] right. Because they’re not getting any, any payback from that. Um, although it would be bad optics for them, many way, like I’m sure that to a certain extent, like Taylor Swift doesn’t mind that her shows are sold out, but at another extent, and, and, you know, I, I was actually impressed she said anything about this and even expressed any amount of kind of frustration with the process because she loves money and these are the people who. You know, um, control the venues where she has to play. Uh, and, and she’s now at the stage in her career. Um, she and very few other artists like it. It’s a very small number of artists who can only play stadiums. She can only play stadiums. And, um, and it’s not like people are like, oh, well Garth Brooks just has another show until he can’t still out anymore. [00:07:43] Christina: I’m like, there’s not enough time. She’s doing 53 shows in the US in a six month period of time. It’s backing up until the start of football season. The next time she can tour the US would be a year later for a second leg, and then she can’t do anything else but tour. Right? And, and bands have [00:08:00] done that before, but, um, you know, that’s, that’s not exactly what you wanna do. [00:08:06] Christina: But yeah, to me, one of the more egregious things is the fact that like Ticketmaster has these, and this is not a joke, I’m not being hyperbolic as I often am. This is for real. They’re a hundred year plus contracts with the, the venues with Ticketmaster that says no matter who owns them, and this is true even for venues that are owned in some cases by aeg, the competitor, [00:08:29] Brett: That is insidious. [00:08:31] Christina: years beforehand, so they can’t do anything about [00:08:35] Brett: That is, that is just that, just, I just see Mr. Burns, [00:08:40] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:08:41] Jeff: That is exactly it. [00:08:42] Christina: It is totally what it is. [00:08:45] Jeff: yeah. [00:08:46] Brett: Excellent. [00:08:47] Christina: And, and, and like, and I mean, honestly the stuff like Verizon or other big companies having, you know, like v i p tickets to give to people, that’s such small potatoes, right? Like that [00:08:57] Brett: there’s some, there’s some scandal around. I remember [00:09:00] when I was watching one of these, uh, like I don’t remember Daily Show or, uh, or uh, some more news or something was taking on Ticketmaster and talking about all of the [00:09:10] Christina: probably John Oliver. [00:09:11] Brett: Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, you’re right. I think it was, I think it was last week tonight. [00:09:15] Brett: Did Ticketmaster? [00:09:17] Christina: Yeah. He did this like last year. I think we should find it and link to it. It’s, it’s good. But no, the whole thing is I, look, I’m, I’m, um, I’m mad for what I’m gonna wind up paying for the Atlanta show. Uh, I’m glad that I had tickets, uh, that I got for my friends, um, and I in New Jersey. And then, um, I was able to get a ticket to the second show in Seattle. [00:09:39] Christina: Um, what kills me is not just the scalpers and the bots at this point. There’s real demand, I think, for this particular show. But the secondary thing that people don’t talk about, and this is affecting so many things, and, and this is a cultural thing, this is societal thing, and I don’t know if like the regulation would help this, but, but it [00:10:00] certainly would give some more, you know, competition is that you have, um, this whole subclass of people now who, because of the pandemic and because of, uh, scarcity, have now seen that this is something that they can make money on through arbitrage by just buying things they think are going to be in great, um, demand and low supply. [00:10:21] Christina: So you saw this happen two years ago with, with GPUs and with PlayStations and with boxes. You’ve also seen it happen with sneakers where you have regular people who are just thinking, oh, this is gonna be a quick way for me to make. and I’m just gonna buy these things and then sell them on the secondary market for more. [00:10:39] Christina: Um, I’m hoping that this is just gonna come out to bite people in the ass much like it has in the sneaker market, cuz the sneaker market is completely like plateaued. And you have a ton of people who bought just ridiculous amounts of shoes with the hopes of reselling them. And then the, the, the bottom kind of, you know, collapsed out of that. [00:10:57] Christina: I’m hoping that just [00:11:00] the sheer number of supply of tickets for this show and other shows will mean that people who are trying to gouge people. Cuz here’s the thing, if you buy a $500 floor seat, that then has, you know, $200 in fees and you’ve gotta then pay, you know, your fees with the reseller. If you wanna sell that for $1,200, okay, fine. [00:11:20] Christina: Right? Like I can see that. But 12,000. That’s when I’m just going, you got greedy Martin to go back to the Simpsons. Right? And, and, and wanna like smack people over the head because that just becomes gross and then that sets a baseline and an expectation that people can get that. So I don’t know. There’s this weird, fucked up, greedy cultural thing like two years ago. [00:11:43] Christina: I spent a ridiculous amount of time, frankly cuz it was fun for me, but also because I just didn’t wanna see families paying scalpers for PlayStations or Xboxes for their kids for the holidays. But I got like 18 families and that’s not an exaggeration. PlayStations or [00:12:00] Xboxes at retail or through a bundle. [00:12:02] Christina: That was actually a, a decent bundle for the holidays. And it took me a lot of time to do that, but I was like, I’ll be damned if people I know are going to be paying double or triple for a PlayStation. You know, like that’s a mass market item that’s stupid. Like Taylor Swift again, I can see like the adult tickets that I’m getting from my mom that are not even good seats. [00:12:22] Christina: I can see. It’s like these are a true scarce item in, in a sense. Um, a PlayStations and GPUs are not. Um, but it was just like, just to see, and, and I consider myself a fairly pro capitalism person, but this isn’t capitalism. This is like putting your finger on the scale. Like this is like actually kind of the opposite of that, of people just being like, we wanna exert as much, um, power as we can to, you know, make the, the natural demand curve, um, not exist so that we can be as greedy as possible. [00:12:52] Christina: And it’s like, you, you fucking assholes, you [00:12:54] Brett: This has been one hell of a, Christina ran to open the show [00:12:57] Christina: I was gonna say, I’m done now I’m done. So [00:13:00] that’s, that’s my rant. [00:13:00] Jeff: Wait, wait, wait. I have a, I have [00:13:02] Brett: no, Jeff, don’t. Don’t do it. Don’t fucking do [00:13:05] Jeff: have a question. [00:13:06] Christina: I will be very quick. I will very [00:13:08] Jeff: I have a question you can [00:13:09] Brett: Oh my God. Oh my God. [00:13:10] Jeff: a question that we can’t answer. The question is just to move us out of this. Does Garth Brook still fly? [00:13:17] Christina: I have no idea. [00:13:19] Jeff: Okay. Hmm. And then I wished I was looking for a picture of a ticket stub. I have. I saw Olivia Newton John on her 30th birthday, um, and, uh, on the physical tour when I was a kid and the, and we were in, I think, the 22nd row on the main floor. I bet that fucking ticket was about $15, which, like, even with inflation, is still nowhere near what we would’ve today. [00:13:43] Jeff: Jesus, [00:13:44] Christina: I mean, and frankly, and, and, and this is the only thing I’ll say about, That’s kind of stunning to me that that was what you paid them because Okay. Even let’s say you had inflation of, of four or five times, which you would not have. Right? Because that was like 82, 83. Um, [00:14:00] that was height of her. [00:14:01] Christina: Like that was like peak, [00:14:02] Jeff: total peak. Yeah. I mean, [00:14:05] Christina: That was peak pop, star living. Newton John. Like she had a huge career in the seventies, but this was like peak number one on billboard, like physical, like peak. Olivia, Newton John. Amazing seats. $15 probably. Wow. And also what an experience for you. That’s so cool. [00:14:20] Jeff: It was a great show except I was then an M now a huge Grease fan and they brought out some dude they must have kept in the green room every night for most of the show to sing John Travolta’s parts and he was so not John Travolta in every possible way and she was so Thousand percent Olivia Newton John, right, that like it was, it was a very disappointing imbalance. [00:14:44] Jeff: But physical is awesome cuz you know there were some leotards and some dancers. [00:14:48] Christina: I can’t even imagine. My very first concert was Paula Abdul, and I was like seven. And, um, I was, or, or six or something. And, and I was, I remember being [00:15:00] sort of confused. Like I knew that the cat wasn’t real, but I was like, how was she gonna dance with the cat? And, and they just had like a video screen behind her. [00:15:09] Jeff: What was that song? [00:15:10] Christina: Um, um, opposites Tracked. [00:15:11] Jeff: Yes. Not not Cold-Hearted Snake. [00:15:14] Christina: No, that’s the one with the, was that the one with Le with Kean Reeves? No, Kean Reeves is in, um, rush. Rush. [00:15:21] Jeff: Oh [00:15:21] Christina: He’s in that video. Yeah. [00:15:23] Jeff: I love it. I love it. [00:15:26] Christina: All right. We’re done Brett. [00:15:27] This is where it ends. That was really really long. Brett got super fuckin’ bored, but he’ll deal with it. [00:15:27] Brett: Okay. [00:15:28] Jeff: Hey, we ended on an Olivia Newton John [00:15:30] Christina: We did. It was a very nice note. [00:15:32] I hear Marimbas, or Mental Health Corner [00:15:32] Brett: I feel like we should, uh, cue up some, some Olivia Newton John to segue us into some kind of mental health corner. I think we should have, I think I want, when I give Erin some like guidelines for like what kind of music we want for our different segments, I really, I hear like Mabas and castanets to go into, to go into the mental health corner, like a real 1950s martini [00:15:57] Jeff: I just say, wait, wait. Can I just say that [00:16:00] I hear Mabas could be your mental health check in [00:16:03] Christina: I hear Mambas. Okay. That that would actually be great. No, but I, I kind of love this. Yeah, I kinda have like a fifties, kind of like that sort of thing. And then that could be like our catcher. I hear Remems, you know what that means? It’s time. Ment Health Quarter [00:16:17] Brett: Mental health corner. [00:16:20] Christina: is brought to you this week by Ovaltine. [00:16:23] Brett: I, uh, I need, I need to recover from, from our, our intro segment. So if someone else would like to give us a mental health check in while I like reset myself here, [00:16:35] Christina: Yes. [00:16:35] Brett: that would be awesome. [00:16:36] Jeff: Oh boy. [00:16:37] Christina: Um, mine is pretty basic. So I’m, uh, I’m in, uh, I’m in Atlanta for until next week. Um, so we’re recording this on. Wednesday, uh, the day before Thanksgiving. So I’m gonna be here until next Wednesday, actually. And then I leave like Wednesday morning, fly back to um, Seattle. So it’s a fairly long visit. I forgot that Thanksgiving was this week [00:17:00] because, uh, I’m bad at things like that. [00:17:02] Christina: So, um, my mother-in-law is, is, um, having some health, um, problems. So my, my husband, I flew him to see her, which I’m actually really happy he was able to go do that. So she’s in Jacksonville, I’m in Atlanta. They’re close. But, uh, for, for just various reasons. I’m, I’m, I’m not with him this time, but, um, I am in Atlanta and I’m with my family, and that’s really nice. [00:17:24] Christina: I’m glad that I’ve been coming home as, as frequently as, even though Atlanta doesn’t feel like home. But it’s just the easiest thing to say. I’m glad that in the last, year and a half, you know, since my nephew was born, I’ve been able to. Be home as frequently as possible and see my parents and my sister and stuff, because, you know, people aren’t getting any younger. [00:17:44] Christina: And, um, this is always a hard time of the year for us. Sunday is the 11th anniversary of my aunt and uncle, passing away after, uh, they got in a car accident two days after Thanksgiving in, um, in 2011. So Sunday is the 11th [00:18:00] anniversary of that. So, um, Thanksgiving is hard for our family, but I’m, I’m really glad that I’m here. [00:18:06] Christina: And, I’m also just kind of glad, like I can turn my brain off other than, you know, uh, ranting about Ticketmaster. So that’s, that, that, that, that’s, that’s my check in. [00:18:15] Brett: I feel like you have your, uh, does your family do like a Thanksgiving dinner and everyone talks about what they’re grateful for? [00:18:23] Christina: No. [00:18:24] Brett: Oh, well, if, if they did, I feel like your mental health check-in would be a great like Thanksgiving table. I’m thankful to be home. I’m grateful to be with family. Yeah. I feel like you, I feel like you covered the Thanksgiving episode really well right there. [00:18:39] Christina: Thank you. [00:18:40] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Jeff, do you want to go or should I. [00:18:45] Jeff: Um, I can go. I’m traveling. So it’s interesting like I. When I’m traveling, I just do my best to sort of maintain, make sure, take meds on time, you know, gr grumpy, figure out why. Um, but [00:19:00] I’m not nearly as sort of in tune with myself as I am when I’m home. Um, but I can say that I’m visiting my in-laws today and the next couple days, and I just came from my father and stepmother’s house for like a day and a half, and I didn’t think I wanted to leave town. [00:19:18] Jeff: I felt like I wanted to stay in town. Um, we just had a lot going on over the last couple months, but the second I was out the door and in the car first with my own family, and then, uh, hanging out with my dad and stepmother playing a game they invented called Tortilla toss, um, which involves some rather elaborate, um, construction on their part. [00:19:41] Jeff: Um, and then just the, the sort of the, the thing I would, I just wanna. Point to as being a nice reminder to myself is that my, um, my stepmom, I’m from a small town in Iowa, only lived there for the first two years of my life, and then every summer and winter break, um, until I was 18. Um, my [00:20:00] stepmother, who’s an artist, works with a gallery downtown and downtown in my hometown is literally just like a street. [00:20:06] Jeff: Um, and in the basement, she decided to turn it into a music performance space where every Wednesday night anybody can come with an instrument, whether you’re awesome or terrible, and you’ll, you’ll find a place on the stage at some point with what has become this sort of like house band. And I was able to go see that space after hearing about it for the last couple months and see a bunch of pictures and, um, it was just an amazing, it’s just amazing how. How you can do community building, um, in, in ways that maybe you would’ve never thought of before. And then once you’ve done it, you’re like, Jesus Christ, why didn’t this already exist? Cause like from the time she started, the place is just flooded with people from, like, people that played in orchestras to this. [00:20:51] Jeff: There’s an unhoused dude that comes in and sings every week. Um, and, uh, , there’s people that wanna beat each other up, and so they have to take space a little bit. You [00:21:00] know, like there’s this like, it’s, it’s like true community . And it was [00:21:03] Brett: Ted [00:21:04] Jeff: to see. Yeah, [00:21:05] Brett: you remember the episode where he brings in the street musician to play the charity ball? Yeah, [00:21:11] Christina: I love. [00:21:11] Jeff: Love that. [00:21:12] Jeff: It’s just, it’s nice to see family, it’s nice to be reminded of things that I would never do to build a community and then to realize how doing something like that can make such a difference for people. [00:21:24] Jeff: It’s a corny thing to say, but it was like pretty fucking cool. [00:21:27] Brett: Nice. That’s awesome. Um, so I, I have officially gone more than a month with automatic episode and, um, like there have been a couple times where I felt it coming on and did some self care routines and some, uh, and implemented some structure in my life that kept it from, I’d never, I haven’t lost a single night of sleep. [00:21:53] Brett: I’ve had some insomnia. I’ve had like some low sleep, but it hasn’t resulted in. [00:22:00] You know, five days of no sleep and manic production. And I’ve also been producing content. Um, I’ve been writing, I’ve been working, I’ve been programming and like doing things that if I were depressed I wouldn’t be able to do. [00:22:20] Brett: So I feel like this kind of idea. curbing my mania, has led to something closer to what I kind of hope stable is like. Um, I’ve continued to read Marbles and Rock Steady by Ellen Forney, which has been, very enlightening. but, uh, her medication journey was a lot like mine and I think, uh, Jeff could relate to it too. [00:22:45] Brett: If you’ve never read marbles, I will send you a copy. I have an extra copy I’m gonna send you, send it to [00:22:50] Jeff: do, please. [00:22:52] Brett: But yeah, I am as close to stable as I’ve ever been. Um, I have exciting things happening on the job front [00:23:00] and I will talk about them eventually, but, uh, for now I’ll just say, Life is good and, and I don’t, I didn’t travel for Thanksgiving and I don’t have to see any family for Thanksgiving, which for me is like, I get a mental health day Thursday. [00:23:18] Brett: Uh, like Al and I both have completely off no obligations, no yoga classes, no work, no family, and we get to just have like a day, uh, to kind of recover from life. And it’s gonna be awesome. I’m very much looking forward to it. [00:23:36] Christina: I love that. I love that. I think like, Historically, even before my aunt and my uncle died, like I’ve never really been a big Thanksgiving person. Like, it’s just never been like, I don’t like the food, uh, my extended family. Uh, and I’ve, you know, there are people who I’m happy to see and there are people who I’m just kind of like, I don’t really care. [00:23:56] Christina: So I, um, I’m not one of those people who like, [00:24:00] you know, extols like the virtues of like needing to like see your family or be with people like on Thanksgiving. Like I just, I get that. So I’m really glad that you and l had this time to de compressed because like we can all be grateful for that. You know what I mean? [00:24:13] Brett: Yeah, yeah, Christmas. Christmas is gonna be, uh, a trial for me. Like my whole family is coming to town. Um, I’m gonna have to see like six nieces and nephews, plus a bunch of extended family, mostly very fundamentalist Christian that I don’t enjoy hanging out with. And my mom, my parents’ anniversary is right around Christmas and uh, I think this is their 50th and they’re having a square dance [00:24:46] Jeff: Oh, wow. [00:24:48] Brett: And they’ve had one in the past. I think they had one for like their 40th anniversary and it, it turned out to be kind of fun. Um, it’s like, it’s like poka [00:25:00] music when you live in Minnesota, you’re like, PO’s stupid. But then you go to a poker night and you have fun. It’s, it’s fun. So I think I can have fun at this square dance, but also I’m not, like right now I’m very uncomfortable with my like, physical shape and not feeling like getting out on a dance floor. [00:25:19] Brett: So we’ll see what happens. I’m gonna try to be a really good sport about it cuz it means so much to my mom. That’s how they met with square Dancing [00:25:28] Jeff: Oh my God. Wow. [00:25:30] Christina: that’s kind of amazing. [00:25:31] Brett: Yeah, that’s that. Thus the anniversary Square dance. But [00:25:35] Christina: I was gonna say cuz that, that didn’t make any sense to me, but I [00:25:38] Jeff: like, that’s random. [00:25:40] Brett: Yeah, I kind of forgot about that. [00:25:42] Christina: but I was also like not gonna like, Question it. I was just gonna be like, okay. You know? Cool. [00:25:47] Brett: Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s how my family rolls. [00:25:52] Jeff: That’s amazing. Heel toe. Heel toe. Slide, slide, slide. That’s what I remember from Square dancing in gym [00:25:56] Christina: Yeah, I, I was gonna say like, did you guys have the square dance in middle [00:26:00] school? [00:26:00] Jeff: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. [00:26:03] Christina: Yep. That maybe that’s just like a [00:26:04] Brett: Walts Foxtrot square dance. Yeah. [00:26:08] Jeff: Man, you had to do that shit in Atlanta. [00:26:10] Christina: Oh yeah. They would play these records, bow your partner, bow your corner, [00:26:17] Jeff: Mm-hmm. [00:26:18] Christina: know, stare and like go round and round. It was just terrible. Yeah. [00:26:22] Brett: yep. Yeah, it’s, it’s even weirder when you have a live color for the square dance and they get very into it and they will like, call you up Personally. It, it gets weird, but, right. Should we do, uh, should we do a little sponsor block here? [00:26:36] Jeff: Sure. [00:26:36] Christina: should. [00:26:38] Brett: All right. Christina, tell us about OC Doc. [00:26:41] Sponsor: Zocdoc [00:26:41] Christina: Yes. So, if you’re a fan of it, sushi is incredible, but gas station sushi not so much. Finding the right sushi makes all the difference. And the same goes for finding the right doctor. [00:26:53] Christina: With zocdoc, you can find the right doctor for you in your network and in your neighborhood, one that makes [00:27:00] you feel like you’re in good hands, that you’re supported, and you’re heard, even if you’re just telling them about your favorite sushi place. ZO Doc is a free app that shows you doctors who are patient, reviewed, take your insurance, and are available when you need them. [00:27:16] Christina: You can find every specialist under the sun, whether you’re trying to straighten those teeth, fix that icky back, get a mold checked or anything else. OC Doc has you covered. OC Doc’s mobile app is as easy as ordering a ride to a restaurant or getting delivery to your house. Search, find and book doctors with a few taps you can find and review local doctors. [00:27:37] Christina: You can read verified patient reviews from real people who made real appointments. And now when you walk into that doctor’s office, you’re all set to see someone in your network who gets you. So you can go to zocdoc.com, find the doctor that’s right for you, and book an appointment in person or remotely that works for your schedule. [00:27:57] Christina: Every month millions of people use OC Doc. I’m one [00:28:00] of them. I’ve been using it as my go-to whenever I need to find a quality doctor for over a decade now. It is definitely one of my most used services. So you can go to oc doc.com/ Overtired and download the OC Doc app for free. And then you start a search for a top rated doctor today. [00:28:19] Christina: Many are available within 24 hours. That is zocdoc.com/ Overtired zoc.com/ Overtired. [00:28:31] Brett: Thank you, Christina. [00:28:33] Jeff: Woo. [00:28:34] Brett: Round of applause. I don’t have a, I don’t have an applause. Sound effect loaded. [00:28:39] Jeff: Um, I’ll take the next one. [00:28:42] Brett: Rock on [00:28:44] Sponsor: Simplisafe [00:28:44] Jeff: Mm, simply safe. Did you know that over the holidays, property crimes like burglaries and packaged thefts spike nationally? That’s why our friends at Simply Safe Home Security are offering 50% off their award-winning security [00:29:00] system so that more families can feel safe and secure this holiday season. 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We’ll allow it. [00:30:59] Don’t worry, it’s not real [00:30:59] Brett: [00:31:00] Um, if you have stuck with us this far through the sponsor block, um, like we were told, we should split these up. People listen to them more if they’re not all in one block, but if you stuck with it, I have a podcast to tell you about. Have you ever wondered exactly what would happen if you licked a hotel remote control Tune in every week to hear the hosts of Hotel horrors describe another terrifying disease present in almost every hotel, you will never travel again. [00:31:29] Brett: That’s Hotel Horrors on the Hallmark network. [00:31:34] Jeff: Oh, hallmark picked that up. [00:31:37] Christina: Yeah, that’s, uh, that’s amazing that that’s, uh, that, that goes in line with like their, their content [00:31:44] Brett: yeah. Don’t, don’t look that up. It’s, it’s prob it’s probably not real. [00:31:49] Christina: I love it. [00:31:51] Get yer NVMe SSDs! [00:31:51] Brett: Um, so I gotta, I gotta offer a tech tip. Um, so I’ve been following, uh, Amazon’s early Black Friday [00:32:00] deals. And one thing that has popped up. So first one, terabyte, N V M A SSD cards popped up, uh, for like a hundred dollars per terabyte. And, uh, so I, I ordered four and I also ordered a new, uh, four M two enclosure from O W O wc, other world computing. [00:32:25] Brett: Um, so that would give me a raid zero four terabyte SSD drive over Thunderbolt three that is as fast, almost as fast by internal hard drive. And then, and then Amazon lets me know that they have two terabyte drives for $150. Um, It adds up. You, you have four of those. You can do the math, but like that, that’s not a cheap hard drive, but that would give you eight terabytes of, with a right speed up to [00:33:00] 3,500 megabytes per megabytes per second. [00:33:03] Brett: Um, it is a fantastic deal. So if you are looking for, if you’re doing video editing, audio editing, looking for something to, or any video work you’re doing, and you need a super fast external drive with some significant storage, check out Amazon Steels. I’ll link the, uh, the gold P three, P 31 SSDs, um, that I found from sk. [00:33:30] Brett: He, [00:33:31] Christina: Yeah, those are pretty good too. I have to say. Like they’re not as good as, um, like the western. Um, and uh, uh, Seagate have some that are like a little bit higher performing, but I have one of those P 31 s and it’s awesome. [00:33:47] Brett: Yeah, I, uh, the first ones I ordered, I ordered four one terabyte Samsung SSD nine eighties. That I will probably send back now because I got those for like [00:34:00] 1 25 a piece, but now I can get two terabytes for one 50. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna trade up for like double, double the size for an extra 30 bucks. [00:34:11] Brett: Sure. [00:34:12] Jeff: rolling around in terabytes like they were dollar bills. [00:34:14] Brett: And the, uh, the four M two enclosure from O WC is $250 for just the enclosure. Um, but, uh, if you were to buy the same amount of storage on like external, like those little one two terabyte, like square drives you can buy, uh, you would be spending more than this. And their speeds are half as good as, as for raid zero and BME drives. [00:34:42] Brett: So I highly recommend this. [00:34:45] Christina: Yeah. Um, I will say if, um, if you’re not, if you are looking for like one of the better SSDs you can get, just in terms of performance, it’s a hundred bucks. Right now, the, the Western digital SN seven 70, uh, there is uh, an eight 70, [00:35:00] which is even faster, but the seven 70 is really, really good. That’s only one terabyte. [00:35:03] Christina: But if you were, for some reason, you needed something more than 3,500, um, megabytes, which. Obviously very fast, but for some reason, if you’re gaming or whatever, um, the, uh, the s n seven 70 is like 5,000. Um, uh, megabit per second. Megabyte per second transfer. It’s a, it’s a, um, a PCI gen four and it’s, it’s a hundred bucks right now. [00:35:25] Brett: Yeah. And the two terabyte is 180. [00:35:28] Christina: Yep. [00:35:29] Brett: Nice. Um, adding that to the show notes, [00:35:33] Jeff: I [00:35:34] Brett: SN seven 70. [00:35:35] The Walking Tired [00:35:35] Jeff: I have something to say. It’s not about, not about hard drives today. Um, I finished The Walking Dead. I watched the season series finale, which I think, I don’t know. Oh no, [00:35:50] Christina: No, it didn’t. [00:35:51] Jeff: no. What I wanted to talk about, and the best part is it ends and then immediately promotes three new shows. Darrell Dixon, which I’m down for [00:36:00] Darrell Dixon as a show. [00:36:00] Jeff: Fine, no problem. [00:36:01] Brett: should have been a spinoff a [00:36:03] Jeff: him in any, what they should do. They should do a kind of fan fiction type thing where they put him in other universes, you know? Um, like he’s in the Harry Potter universe. He’d be great in the Harry Potter universe, right? Like, so good. Um, or a better yet, put him in the World War Z universe. [00:36:17] Jeff: Do you see [00:36:17] Brett: Darrell Dixon as [00:36:18] Jeff: fucking zombies are super fast? Yes. So there’s Darrell Dixon, there’s, there’s Rick and Macon, and then there’s something called Dead City. And, and I’m just, I’m just like the fuck, why would, no. So here’s the thing I wanted to ask you all. Is there like a, you know how you got like AUMs razor and whatever, all these different laws that explain patterns of behavior that appear over and over again. [00:36:41] Jeff: How the fuck, and we don’t have to spend too much time on this, how when that show started so strong and at the point of its, you know, the beginning of its decline was so flush with cash, how is it that they could not pay the money it would take to [00:37:00] get good storytellers to help continuing, to help to continue building out their world? [00:37:05] Jeff: Why, why it got so fucking bad? [00:37:08] Brett: a really good question. [00:37:10] Jeff: Cause they didn’t have to. I think it is, they didn’t have [00:37:12] Brett: it lost me. I, they, they have to have lost millions of viewers, like they lost me and I was a hardcore, I was a hardcore t wd fan. Loved it. And then like shortly after, uh, I lasted a couple seasons after me. Megan [00:37:31] Christina: Yeah. [00:37:31] Jeff: N. [00:37:32] Brett: Negan. Negan. Yeah. Me, [00:37:34] Jeff: as in Negan. [00:37:36] Brett: a millennial girl’s name. [00:37:37] Brett: But, um, yeah, I lasted a couple seasons till like Negan was like all, it kind of became a good guy a little bit, and then I just, I just lost my heart for it. I couldn’t take the ups and downs anymore. Um, I, I don’t know. Like, I feel like you could say the same thing about Game of Thrones last season or two. [00:37:59] Jeff: that, not that [00:38:00] big of a dip. [00:38:00] Christina: No, and I think, I think that them, like, I’ll give Game of Thrones a little bit more of a pass, and so far as like they were expecting to have some source material to use and they didn’t. [00:38:12] Jeff: Yeah. [00:38:13] Brett: sure. Yeah. [00:38:14] Jeff: Famously, [00:38:15] Christina: and so like, uh, you know, that, that puts you in kind of a precarious situation where you’re now having to create lo for something you didn’t previously created on. [00:38:25] Christina: And. I, so I give ’em a little bit of a pass. But for, for, uh, walking Dead, I mean, it’s interesting because I watched Fear of Walking Dead as well, and that one weirdly, I think like now Alicia’s finally gone and so I don’t know if I’m gonna even continue at that point cuz I’m like, all right, now all the original characters I think are basically gone. [00:38:46] Christina: I think they brought the mom back or something, but that’s been one that I, that I haven’t been like super into, but it also dropped off. But it, it, it still had some aspects. I don’t think it dropped off to the same degree, but my honest thought is that with the [00:39:00] spinoffs, all of the other franchise things they had with it, that, yeah, they obviously lost viewers, but. [00:39:08] Christina: Somebody had to run the numbers and been like, well, if we pay the money to make it better, is that going to necessarily like, bring us an influx of viewers, or are these people just kind of gone? Because these are the waves, these shows go in, and as long as we keep a show running, we will have people either hate watching it or just watching it out of, you know, like attrition. [00:39:28] Christina: So let’s just suck all the money out of it. It’s like a Grey’s Anatomy thing. Um, which incidentally, Ellen Pompeo is finally leaving after 19 years. 19 years on that show. But the show is, I guess, gonna continue. I mean [00:39:44] Brett: Is that still on Jesus Christ? [00:39:47] Christina: and Meredith Gray is going to leave, but the show will at least continue on through the rest of the season. [00:39:54] Christina: It’s, do they get renewed at the end of for, for next year? Probably not, but who knows? [00:39:59] Brett: it [00:40:00] as bad as the Simpsons are now? Like is it just going through the motions? [00:40:05] Christina: Oh yeah. Yeah. And, and what’s what’s funny is that, uh, uh, Ellen Pompeo, the, the actress, I do kind of love her because she’s been very upfront about this. She’s like, look, I know that I will never be able to get any other working role ever again because I’m too associated with this character and, and, and, and I will never be able to get real work again. [00:40:27] Christina: So she’s, for more than a decade, been like, fuck you, pay me. And like, insisting on them paying her an insane amount of money. And I respect that. Also, just kind of phoning it. I’m like, yeah, you are right. You will never work again. You will never be cast in anything meaningful ever again, not because you’re not talented, but because no one will ever be able to write [00:40:49] Brett: gray. That’s it. [00:40:51] Christina: That’s it. So, I, I, but, but with her finally leaving, I’m like, oh my God. So. You know, so, but, but, but like, why would [00:41:00] ABC keep this show on the air? Especially since viewerships have fallen? It must be international. It must be something. It’s the only thing I can figure. That’s my CCAs RA razor theory is that they don’t have to. [00:41:11] Jeff: I like that. That is, I can see how that could become the problem. It’s, it’s still astonishing. It’s like that thing where like, you know, when you use a really shitty remote control, which is like all of them, but when you use a really, really shitty one, and my first thought is like, how many fucking meetings did this thing sail through and why? I feel like that about every episode of The Walking Dead after like season seven, [00:41:33] Brett: Can you [00:41:33] Jeff: how is it that there wasn’t someone to say, Hey, can you just make. A little more interesting, you know, like, or, [00:41:40] Brett: if they had killed Darrell, can you imagine like if Darrell left the show, if, if, what’s his name? [00:41:47] Jeff: Norman Revis. [00:41:49] Christina: Yes. [00:41:50] Brett: Yes. So can you imagine if he decided he was done? Cause honestly, he could still get work. Like he’s not, so he’s [00:42:00] not in the situation where he could never play another part. Like he could go back to, he could do Boondock Saints three and, and get the, and get the gig. But like if he had left, uh, if the writers had decided, Ooh, let’s big twist, let’s kill Darrell. [00:42:17] Brett: That show would’ve ended a long time ago. [00:42:20] Jeff: I mean, I said that all the way through as I was watching those seasons. I’m like, you better not [00:42:24] Brett: Better not fucking kill Darrell. [00:42:27] Jeff: Yeah. [00:42:29] Brett: Yeah, for sure. [00:42:30] Jeff: it was [00:42:30] Christina: My, uh, my, my former colleague at, um, uh, Gizmoto, um, Rob, um, used to write, or, or I nine used to write, um, walking Dead Recaps and for like, years and, and, and his were like famous and like for years his walking dead recaps were just his, him just like, like hate watching and just eviscerating everything in the show. [00:42:53] Christina: And it was such a great, like, read. So, uh, Rob, um, Rob Bricken, so, [00:43:00] um, oh actually he, I will publish this cuz this, or I put this on the show notes cuz this, um, uh, was published 17 minutes ago. It turns out the Walking Dead was me all along. I’ve spent 10 full years recapping the once popular Zombie TV series and it, and it comes with a cost. [00:43:15] Christina: I haven’t read this yet, but I, knowing Rob who’s fantastic, uh, this I bet is just a great, great read. Here, I’ll, I’ll read the final paragraph. Looking back at a full decade of recapping the Walking Dead, I can’t help but feel, oh my God, how did I spend a decade of my life watching this show? That overall, I don’t think I enjoyed the fact that it overlaps almost exactly with my tenure at I nine complicates things immensely for me, since I, since overall, I’ve enjoyed my time here, minus a real life super villain. [00:43:46] Christina: Or two, the two experiences are inextricably linked for me and will be for a while, I suspect. But right now, I have no ability to truly understand what I’ve done or has been done to me. I’m in Sens. I’m in Sensate, numbless, lifeless. [00:44:00] After 10 long years, I am the Walking Dead. But if nothing else, the Walking Dead is giving me one piece of advice to help guide me through this difficult transition in my life. [00:44:08] Christina: All the way back to my very first episode that aired on October 31st, 2010. Um, you know, um, don’t open dead. [00:44:21] Jeff: Uh, that’s amazing. [00:44:24] Grapptitude, Black Friday edition! [00:44:24] Brett: can you link that for us in the show notes? Should we, uh, should we do some gratitude? [00:44:28] Brett: Cuz there are some, uh, some Black Friday things that if this episode comes out in time, might be, uh, might be worth people knowing about. [00:44:36] Christina: absolutely. [00:44:37] Brett: All right. Who wants to start? I got some good ones. I’ll, uh, I’ll, I’ll jump in, but, uh, but if anyone else has one ready, go for it. [00:44:46] Jeff: Um, I don’t exactly, I have kind of a, like last week I was doing almost like follow up, gratitude and, uh, or gratitude follow up. And this time I just wanna say, I wanna, I wanna ask a question. Um, I. I have [00:45:00] been sort of going back and forth really for years between forklift and Pathfinder as finder alternatives. [00:45:07] Jeff: Um, and I have settled. I always end up settling on forklift even though every time there’s a new version of Pathfinder, I go, oh no, maybe that’s me [00:45:16] Brett: Same. Exactly the same. [00:45:18] Jeff: and what, so okay, so what is it like? So I’ve definitely landed back on forklifts, but like I can’t exactly tell you why. [00:45:27] Brett: is too configurable for me. Like I always feel like there’s an option I’m not using that would make this make more sense. Like, there’s some way to configure this that would just be perfect flow for me, but I never find it, I never find that exact combination. And forklift has fewer overall options, uh, fewer modules, et [00:45:51] Jeff: It’s actually, in my opinion, not configurable enough. [00:45:55] Brett: But you can configure every key keyboard shortcut. Like you [00:46:00] can go into preferences, change all your keyboard shortcuts. It has your two pane file management. It has excellent, uh, integration with cloud services. Uh, [00:46:09] Jeff: Yes it does. I use that. [00:46:11] Brett: to B2 drives to S3 drives. Like everything is, it’s just, and sftp and it’s, it just does the job smoothly without making me think that I’m missing out on anything. [00:46:27] Brett: And I always fall back to forklift [00:46:30] Jeff: I never thought I’d hear the day that I’d hear Brett turfs just say, it’s just too configurable. [00:46:35] Brett: There there is a limit. [00:46:38] Christina: There is a limit. Well, no, but I think, I think that that is so true. It’s like I, I never thought I would hear that either, but even Brett has, even Brett is like, look, it’s great to have options, but sometimes you have to make choices. [00:46:48] Brett: Yeah, there’s a, [00:46:50] Jeff: killing me smalls. [00:46:51] Brett: I love things that are extensible. I love things that are tweakable, but they’re, I have my limits. Like, like if, [00:47:00] okay, so forklift, you can create custom commands for forklift. Um, you can add commands that basically run Unix scripts for you. Uh, and you can make them, you can make them menu based commands. [00:47:13] Brett: And that’s the extensibility I want. I want to be able to tweak something that does exactly the, the thing that I want to do that nobody else would ever wanna do. I wanna make it do that and forklift can do it. Pathfinder offers you a hundred different modules that none of which really satisfy the specific itch that I have. [00:47:37] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s helpful. Yeah. Yeah. All right. There’s my gratitude. [00:47:43] Brett: forklift is forklift your pick. [00:47:44] Jeff: I think we’ve done it before, but it was more about like, It was more about that thing of like, man, why am I always willing to try something else when this ends up being the [00:47:54] Brett: powerful. Pathfinder is just like, it’s appealing because it’s so configurable. [00:48:00] By the way, I think both of these are available on setup, so, so setup users can take their pick, but yeah, forklift is, forklift is just a smoother, less mentally taxing experience for me. [00:48:14] Jeff: All right. There’s that. [00:48:17] Brett: Christina, you got anything? [00:48:19] Christina: Yeah, so there are a couple things. So you are gonna talk about, I think there are a bunch of Black Friday sales and Cyber Monday sales, um, that you mentioned, and I’m gonna talk about some too. Just cuz I think this is a good time. I would just completely just like follow on, with, yours. But, there are a bunch of, black Friday sales. [00:48:37] Christina: I think actually, Michael, si, um, has a really good, uh, overview of what some things are. We’ll link, um, his blog post, which I think he’s updating, uh, in the show notes too, but, It’s not their best one, but Bundle Hunt does have, a Black Friday bundle that has some decent apps in it, and I’m [00:49:00] pulling it up right now. [00:49:00] Christina: Okay. Some of them are, are, um, decent prices. So it’s one of those things where you unlock the bundle for $3 and 50 cents, and then you can add, you know, a bunch of things, um, to it. And so some of the things that are here, uh, there’s a, and you’ve used Fusion Cast, right? Uh, Brett. [00:49:16] Brett: No that, what is that? [00:49:18] Christina: So it’s like, let’s you turn your podcast episodes into videos. [00:49:22] Brett: Oh no. Maybe that’s what I used. I found something that did that. So if that’s one we’ve talked about on the show before, yes, I have used [00:49:30] Christina: Okay. I don’t know if that’s what you did or not. I thought that’s what it was. Anyway, it’s on sale for a dollar 50. Uh, um, let’s see. Air Buddy is on sale for three 50, uh, which is like a, you know, a, um, an uh, like. Bluetooth, uh, wireless, uh, control app. Um, there’s some other, um, things too. I’m trying to see. [00:49:50] Christina: Um, you can get a year of agenda premium for $5 if that’s an app. You [00:49:55] Brett: Great app. That’s a [00:49:56] Christina: that? I agree. Um, there is, [00:50:00] um, uh, let’s see they’ve got some bundles of some other like, like special effects and, and, uh, photo overlays and things for like $2, which is, is pretty good. There is, um, [00:50:11] Brett: Who to spot, who to geo. I’m just looking through Michael size list. Um, who to spot and who to geo are both on sale for, I would say looks like about 20% off. Um, I, I highly recommend who to spot. It’s a, it’s a great [00:50:27] Jeff: couldn’t recommend anything higher than I could [00:50:30] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Whos bought is great. Oh yeah, that’s a great one. Also, as part of that, uh, that bundle, this is, this is why I thought of this because you were mentioning, um, forklift and, um, Pathfinder. Yes. Uh, mountain Duck, which is, uh, forklift does some similar things in terms of being able to, to like, uh, load other, um, like, like, uh, basically, uh, load like a, like cloud services. Exactly. Mountain Duck is cross platform, which is really nice. It’s [00:51:00] from the people who make, uh, cyber Duck. [00:51:02] Brett: Yeah. Okay. [00:51:03] Christina: it’s on sale for, for, uh, for $8. [00:51:06] Christina: And it’s actually really good. I think, like if you’ve got, forklift is probably gonna work for most of your needs. Um, and if you already have one of those apps, it’s probably good. But if you are looking for something that can work both on Mac and Windows, Uh, mountain Duck is actually really, really good and it’s $8. [00:51:22] Christina: So, so I, so I’m throwing that out there. But yeah. Uh, Michaels on his blog post, he’s got a lot of, um, things that are listed. Yeah. Who to spot, who to go. That’s definitely, um, a, a good thing. And, Hal is, uh, they’re, they’re doing their first sale since 2018. The, the iPhone, um, camera app, which is really great. [00:51:41] Christina: And yeah. So there, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of good stuff. [00:51:45] Brett: Lincoln X is on this list. I thought Lincoln was dead. Um, I use launch control for this now and at launch Control from Selma Zone should eventually be a pick for us, but, uh, but apparently you can [00:52:00] get Lincoln X nine for 1275. These are, it’s a tool that runs launch D like helps you set up and run launch D jobs on a Mac, uh, which is the max version of like chron, uh, for, for running background tasks. [00:52:17] Brett: So it, it, like that used to be my go-to app, so I’m, I’m impressed to see it still alive. [00:52:22] Christina: Would you use now? [00:52:24] Brett: Uh, launch control from Selma zone, [00:52:27] Christina: Okay. [00:52:28] Brett: I’ll, I’ll throw that in the show notes cuz it is an outstanding up. And they also just came out with a new version, [00:52:33] Christina: Oh, flex Bit’s Premium is 50% off for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Um, [00:52:38] Brett: a bit like, uh, fantastic. [00:52:40] Christina: How? Yeah. , they’re, they’re noting that they’re gonna be making adjustments to their pricing January 3rd. Um, so if you’ve been wanting to subscribe, this is really a good way to do it. [00:52:51] Christina: Since things are 50% off, um, I, fantastical is one of those things that like, I so happily pay for. Like, I, I [00:53:00] don’t know. [00:53:00] Brett: it worked with, I wish it worked with, uh, uh, Microsoft 365, whatever. I can’t use it for work and it drives me nuts. [00:53:10] Christina: did I send you the, the way to use the V1 api and that still didn’t work. [00:53:15] Brett: It still didn’t work. Yep. I, uh, Oracle has some rules and it’s annoying. I miss, I miss fantastical. I do, I still actually use it, but then I also have to use Outlook calendar. [00:53:30] Christina: Right. [00:53:31] Brett: Right. For all of my work stuff it’s annoying, but yes, fantastical. If it, if it works for all of your calendars, fantastical is top. All right. Uh, throw some, throw some links to some of the stuff you’ve, you’ve, uh, you’ve mentioned briefly into the show notes. Um, I will talk about a couple. Um, first of all, teleprompter, uh, it took years. [00:53:55] Brett: So many teleprompter apps have come out that are not worth jack. [00:54:00] Um, like it’s not hard to make text move slowly on a screen, but to actually add features that someone needing a teleprompter would want, apparently took some time. But, uh, an app called Teleprompter very on the nose, uh, solve that. And like they have iOS and MAC apps, and you can sync your scripts over iCloud. [00:54:25] Brett: You can control your teleprompter with your watch. You can mirror it so you can use your iPhone, uh, with a teleprompter lens on your camera. Uh, so you can see your, your teleprompter right as you look into the lens. And it, it, it does all the little things that you would want to do. It makes editing scripts super easy on Mac or iOS, and you can get it for Black Friday, and they’re only sending the coupons out to people who subscribe to their [00:55:00] newsletter. [00:55:00] Brett: So the show notes will have a link to the subscription, uh, form for the Black Friday deals. So you would have to go, but for Black Friday, you can get a year of teleprompter premium for 4 99, which is, I think it’s normally 15 to $20. [00:55:20] Christina: think so, cuz I pay for it and it is hands down, like you, I’ve searched for so many apps. I’ve used it every single week for like four years. It is the, it is the best. It is the absolute best. [00:55:35] Brett: Anytime I’m doing video, anytime I’m doing screencast or, or talking head stuff, it is, it’s just, it’s top notch. Um, I think that’s my, that’s my catchphrase Top notch. It’s top notch. Um, the other one I wanna mention for Black Friday is Silver three. I had waited to upgrade because Silver three is not cheap. [00:55:59] Brett: Um, [00:56:00] and, and I was doing fine with Silver two, but what it is, it’s a text based calculator where you can write out your, what you need to solve and it can do currency translation and uh, and. Long formulas basically, and you can reference whatever the total was from the line you wrote out before it, you can reference it again and then continue it in the next line. [00:56:27] Brett: And it’s basically a text file with a calculator built in. And for the way my brain works, like I’m not great at math. Uh, so when I wanna solve a problem, uh, especially something with floating point calculations in an application, uh, silver is how I think through these, uh, these equations and version three is half off right now through, uh, through Unclutter app. [00:56:57] Brett: Uh, unclutter has, they make a, [00:57:00] they make a Mac app, but really, I think they make most of their money on these bundles. They do. Uh, but Silver five is usually $35. And right now you can get it for 1750 or. You can buy this entire bundle from On Clutter with uh, rapid Weaver Task Paper Time Mader Acorn, uh, PDF squeezer, Pathfinder Tech Sniper, which is cool, but is about to be Sherlock iStat menus. [00:57:29] Brett: Pado, which is a competitor to Curio, which we’ve talked about. Uh, and Downy four, which is like the best, uh, graphic interface to like YouTube dl. Um, you can get all of that for 75% off. You can get the whole bundle for $84. Um, but you can also pick and choose and you can just get Silver three, which is what I’m gonna put in the show notes, uh, for 1750 [00:57:59] Jeff: Where does [00:58:00] Sherlock come from? [00:58:01] Christina: The app, Sherlock Watson. So Apple’s app, Apple’s, uh, was it Apple’s? Sherlock That Sherlocked Watson, or was it Watson? That Sherlock. [00:58:11] Brett: That’s a good question. I’ve, I’ve [00:58:13] Jeff: That was like their search. Their search bit. [00:58:16] Brett: Yeah. [00:58:17] Jeff: Got it. Got it. Okay. Thanks [00:58:22] Brett: Um, [00:58:23] Jeff: I think we did a great job. [00:58:24] Brett: I think we did, and I think, I think we hit an hour and in, if you made it this far in the episode, that means you sat through 15 minutes of Ticketmaster talk at the top of the hour and, and Nice job. No, congrats. Christina. , like you really, you, you had a lot to say and I appreciate it. I don’t mean to sound, um, grumpy. [00:58:51] Brett: Is that, do I seem grumpy? [00:58:52] Jeff: ass situation. [00:58:54] Brett: It is, it is and it deserves, it deserves some talking about. So thank you for that. [00:59:00] And uh, and thank you guys for, uh, for making some time on. Both of you are traveling this week and I appreciate you showing up. [00:59:09] Jeff: My pleasure. [00:59:10] Christina: We gotta do it. Oh, and uh, Sherlock, Sherlock Watson. So that’s, [00:59:15] Brett: yeah. [00:59:16] Christina: Just for, for [00:59:17] Jeff: episode. Episode title, Sherlock Sherlocked Watson. All right, y’all. [00:59:21] Brett: Luck Watson. [00:59:22] Jeff: Y’all get some sleep [00:59:24] Brett: Get some sleep. [00:59:25] Christina: Get some sleep. [00:59:30] [01:00:00] [01:00:10]

Come along on a journey from Pooh’s Corner to Brett’s rock collection as we spin the feelings wheel and fire up the random word generator. Also: nvUltra update! Sponsor Meet Mindbloom. When it comes to mental health, sometimes you need something more to achieve a real and lasting breakthrough. Maybe it’s time to check out a guided ketamine therapy program — Mindbloom can help. After only 2 sessions, 87% of Mindbloom clients reported improvements in depression, and 85% reported improvements in anxiety. Right now, Mindbloom is offering Overtired listeners $100 off your first six-session program when you sign up at mindbloom.com/overtired and use promo code overtired at checkout. Grab your exclusive NordVPN deal by going to nordvpn.com/overtired to get a huge discount off your NordVPN Plan AND 4 months for free! It’s completely risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee! Our podcast swap today is with the “Better Call Daddy” show. Host Reena Friedman Watts interviews guests like Jerry Springer, Judge Alex, Nanny Yvonne, and Johnny Spoiler. Each episode, Reena interviews the guest, with her father, Wayne Friedman, weighing in at the interview’s conclusion. Tune in at bettercalldaddy.com. Show Links Feelings Wheel Library of Congress Control Number nvUltra Recreating Sci Fi Terminals with VHS Affinity Photo 2 GitHub Codespaces Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Insidious Curly Taxonomies [00:00:00] Intro-Outro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Jeff 1: Hello everybody. Hello. You there in the kitchen and you there in your car? [00:00:09] Brett 1: You there in the bushes? [00:00:11] Jeff 1: the rain dripping on your windshield in the bushes. Ugh. Is that like a USB speaker situation? One of those little ones. I am Jeff Severance Gunzel, one of three hosts of the Overtired podcast. Although only two hosts are here for the first few minutes. [00:00:30] One of them is Brett Terpstra [00:00:33] Brett 1: Hello, Jeff? [00:00:34] Jeff 1: and Christina’s, uh, Taylor Swift. She’s getting [00:00:37] Brett 1: Let, let me read you, uh, Christina’s last message in our, in our group chat says, start without me. I’ve gotta get tickets for my mom. [00:00:48] Jeff 1: Hmm. Been there. I’ve never been there. [00:00:52] Brett 1: I’ve never been there. [00:00:53] Jeff 1: That’s not true. I bought my mom and I tickets for a Parliament Funkadelic show in Chicago about five or 10 years ago. My first, my first concert was my mom and her boyfriend took me to the Met Center here in Minnesota, in Bloomington, and, uh, where the Mall of America now stands. [00:01:14] And we went and saw, uh, the, the Parliament. And I was like five years old. [00:01:18] Brett 1: You got the pee funk? [00:01:20] Jeff 1: I got no memories, but the band lives in me. [00:01:24] Brett 1: wait. You were young enough that you have no memories, but you bought the tickets. [00:01:27] Jeff 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Come on now. Focus. I bought the tickets. I bought the, [00:01:33] Brett 1: right away. [00:01:35] Jeff 1: I bought the tickets for five to 10 years ago when we saw Parliament Funkadelic, [00:01:39] Brett 1: Oh, [00:01:40] Jeff 1: honor of, and as a thank you for taking me in [00:01:43] Brett 1: Oh my God. Yeah. I’m super scattered today. Like you started talking and I just immediately, just immediately left the room. I’m sorry. It’s not personal. It’s not at all [00:01:54] Jeff 1: familiar with this response. One time I was, I was upset that my partner had forgotten something that I had told her. And, and I said, I, I mean, it was important. I told, you know, I told you. And, and, and she goes, but you say so much And I was like, oh man. Touche. You won that round. [00:02:18] Brett 1: right before this episode, I had a therapy appointment and it struck me that my therapist remembers stuff we’ve talked about. Like I don’t, I don’t remember te telling my therapist all kinds of things and he is like, well, a couple weeks ago you mentioned this person and, and your relationship and this regard. [00:02:38] And I was like, really? We talked about that? Holy shit. Um, But I also appreciate about my therapist that I can change the topic whenever I get bored and he’ll just track with me. He’s like, okay, we’re talking about this now. Which is like having a conversation with an ADHD person who’s perfectly willing to jump when you jump. [00:02:59] Jeff 1: Well, it’s also like, it’s like I, I would imagine if you’re a therapist and your client is sort of suddenly bouncing out of a topic that, that’s data [00:03:11] Brett 1: yeah. Yeah, for sure. Scratching the notepad. [00:03:16] Jeff 1: I see. [00:03:18] Brett 1: Cannot maintain a train of thought. [00:03:20] Jeff 1: I had a therapist for about five years and um, who was absolutely incredible at, at holding my story and was able to call back to conversations four years, three years previous in really meaningful, very timely ways. And all she had were handwritten notes and I just thought that was so, I mean, it felt so good and in fact it made it, she retired, which is why I stopped seeing her as the therapist, but like, It was sad to leave just for that reason. [00:03:56] Selfishly, you know, because it felt like, oh, you , you know so much, you know, maybe more than any other person on earth about me, [00:04:07] Brett 1: Yeah, [00:04:10] Jeff 1: just gonna retire. What’s this about? Um, it is a [00:04:13] Brett 1: But I still need to, [00:04:15] Jeff 1: I still need you [00:04:17] Brett 1: yeah. [00:04:18] Jeff 1: So anyhow, that’s Mental Health Corner [00:04:20] Brett 1: Should we do a, should we do a mental health corner, or should we hope that Christina jumps in any second now? [00:04:27] Jeff 1: Yeah. You wanna talk a mental health corner? Should we walk over here to the corner? Come on over [00:04:31] Brett 1: Yeah, come on. [00:04:33] Jeff 1: little stool for you. It’s green. [00:04:35] Brett 1: I went to a preschool called Poo Corner. [00:04:38] Jeff 1: No? [00:04:39] Brett 1: Um, after Winnie the Poo, not, not, you know, [00:04:44] Jeff 1: Oh, not poo poo. Yeah, no, I, I was tracking, but actually it’s really good you clarified. [00:04:48] Brett 1: not Poop Corner, but, uh, yeah. At our graduation there were posters of, uh, Winnie and Piglet, and I definitely grew up with a fascination for Winnie the po. Did you ever see, this is kind of mental health corner because this is the recesses of my brain, but did you ever see the more recent Christopher Robbins movie? [00:05:14] Jeff 1: No, I did not. [00:05:15] Brett 1: There’s this amazing moment where he wakes up in the hundred Acre Wood, uh, Christopher Robbins, who’s played by, what’s his name? I don’t remember. Anyway, he wakes up in the a hundred acre wood Christopher Robbins as an adult, and he says, oh no, it’s tomorrow when he looks at his, his watch and Winnie the booth says, oh, that’s weird. [00:05:35] It’s almost always today. [00:05:38] Jeff 1: Oh [00:05:39] Brett 1: Blew my mind. [00:05:40] Jeff 1: Oh, uh, I love that. Oh, that’s awesome. [00:05:45] Brett 1: I love winning the PO so much. Um, [00:05:48] Jeff 1: lots to love, lots to love. [00:05:51] Brett 1: That’s funny. It’s almost always today, Oh man. So I am, I am not, I’m, I’m not depressed, but I’m depressed. And, and this goes back to my whole thing about how I don’t think I ever find stable. Like I am full of anxiety and self-doubt right now. I’ve been losing sleep over upcoming events that I can’t talk about publicly yet. Um, but like things the, so like there’s something coming up that if it happens, it means a major change in my life and I have to make adaptations. [00:06:37] Before I can make that change. And uh, it’s both sides of that are very stressful to me and I have stress dreams. Even if I try to convince myself like there’s nothing to stress about, uh, it will keep me up all night. And it’s not mania. I wish it was mania, but it’s just insomnia combined with depression and anxiety. [00:07:03] And it’s driving me insane right now. Um, and if this thing doesn’t happen, then I have to cope with the idea that, you know, the things that I don’t like aren’t gonna change, uh, which is a whole level of stress on its own. I wish I could say, I wish I could be more elaborate about what’s happening, cuz I do much better when I can speak in plain terms. [00:07:25] Jeff 1: Let me ask you, I have a question. Have you ever seen the, um, we started with poo and now I’m gonna ask you about the feelings wheel. Have you, have you ever seen that? [00:07:35] Brett 1: No, I don’t [00:07:36] Jeff 1: it’s basically a, it’s a wheel , it’s a circle, right? And there are 1, 2, 3 rings of that circle, okay? In the center are these emotions or feelings, anger, sadness, surprise, joy, love and fear, right? [00:07:51] But what it does in the next layer out, if we take fear, it gives you more words. Scared, terror, insecure, nervous, horror, right? [00:08:01] Brett 1: I have seen something like [00:08:02] Jeff 1: For terror, there’s historic, hysterical and panic for scared. There’s helpless and frightened. For insecure, there’s an adequate and inferior. It’s like, it’s actually an amazing way to find the. [00:08:14] I’m actually looking for, cause you’re just saying, I’m depressed, but I’m not depressed, I’m [00:08:18] Brett 1: yeah. No, I could use this. [00:08:20] Jeff 1: what would happen if you looked at that because it does actually give you a language. And I will tell you that having known about this for a long time, my, my partner’s a therapist and just like left it out one day, I don’t think intentionally for me, [00:08:33] And I remember just feeling like, wow, there is so much language to help me describe or even, or even discover how I feel right now, right when I get locked in the same few words. [00:08:47] Brett 1: Okay. So I found it. I found it on the internet. And, let’s see. Scared where? Let’s see. Energetic, playful, creative. Sad. Mad. Oh, scared. Okay. So scared. I’m feeling insecure. Foolish. Foolish. Am I feeling foolish? No. [00:09:10] Jeff 1: Right? It might have a different one. [00:09:12] Brett 1: It, it goes scared, insecure, and then insecure. Just goes straight to foolish. There’s no like mul. [00:09:18] Jeff 1: interesting. I think there must be many different versions of the feeling wheel, cuz for me, insecure goes to inadequate and inferior and I’m not, I just grabbed one off the internet too, I [00:09:27] Brett 1: Inadequate. Inadequate. Makes more sense to me. [00:09:30] Jeff 1: Mm. [00:09:30] Brett 1: Oh my God. Yeah. Like every one of these feelings will, is different. Yes. But I, I, I found the one that, that has inferior and, and inadequate, and I am feeling inadequate. Uh, like I can’t, I feel like I can’t, I can’t keep doing what I’m doing because I’m not adequate and I’m worried that I can’t do what I wanna do because I’m not adequate. [00:09:56] Yeah. I’m feeling inadequate. That’s why, that’s my mental health check-in. I’m feeling inadequate [00:10:01] Jeff 1: Yeah. [00:10:02] Brett 1: even though I’ve been told I’m perfectly adequate both by my therapist and by my girlfriend, and by the people in my life. Um, it’s hard to convince myself. [00:10:16] Jeff 1: or is it yourself, your whole self that you have to convince? Or is there just like a part of yourself that’s going inadequate? Inadequate motherfucker? [00:10:23] Brett 1: a part of myself. Like there’s a part of me that’s really proud of what I’ve done and what I am. Uh, but there’s, there’s a small nagging, but very loud part of me that is convinced that I will, am not, and never will be adequate. Um, I, I’ve resurfaced the di inspirations. I don’t know if you remember my series, [00:10:46] Jeff 1: Oh, yes, yes. [00:10:48] Brett 1: uh, of, of inspirational quotes turned upside down and, uh, one of them is, it’s, it’s true because it’s loud. [00:10:57] Shout your ever critical inner voice. Um, and it’s not imposter syndrome if it’s true [00:11:08] Jeff 1: Yeah. [00:11:09] Brett 1: Um, so [00:11:10] Jeff 1: Put that motherfucker back in the box. [00:11:12] Brett 1: Yeah, but I’ve been, I’ve been recycling them. I’m starting to put them out again. But I, uh, I have some ideas for new ones. Uh, I feel like I, the intention is to ruin people’s positive outlooks because I find them annoying. But the fact is the audience that they have is people who commiserate with the, the sentiment. [00:11:35] Jeff 1: You don’t wanna be the one ruining people’s positive [00:11:37] Brett 1: No, probably not. [00:11:39] Jeff 1: but, but, but what you’re doing actually, as you just said, is like you’re giving voice to something. I mean, it’s a, those two, you gave us an example are funny because it’s something that we all experience to some degree or another, for sure. [00:11:53] Right? For sure. Um, My, uh, my check in is like, you know how when you get strapped into the like rollercoaster or one of those rides, they put you, they put those bar, they put that bar over you and it kind of locks. It’s a little tight. It is for me. I’m a big guy. Um, and then when the, when the rollercoaster first goes, it just like jars you, right? [00:12:18] Like you, it’s kind of a jolting start, even if it’s just going slow. I feel like I’ve been having that jolt, uh, about 17 times a day. It’s just been a period of one thing after another. Today’s example, uh, flat tire. When I tried to take my kid to school this morning [00:12:40] Brett 1: I hate flat tires. [00:12:41] Jeff 1: and eye doctor appointment, cuz there’s just some kind of, not necessarily scary vision stuff, but just not quite easy to understand vision stuff, right? [00:12:50] These just things keep popping up and, and, uh, oh, here comes Christina. [00:12:56] Brett 1: Yeah. [00:12:57] Christina 1: Yeah, I’m entirely too pissed, I think, to be of any use at this podcast to venture. So, [00:13:02] Jeff 1: You’re not even turning on your video. You’re like, motherfuckers, I am not coming in [00:13:06] Christina 1: um, I don’t know why it is not, oh, it’s not letting me change it. It’s, it’s wanting to use my phone for some reason. I’m incredibly pissed right now. [00:13:13] Jeff 1: It’s okay. I mean, if you need to like just take a fucking run up a wall or something, but you’re also welcome here [00:13:21] Brett 1: Yeah. No. Well, like we, we want you here, but feel free to leave and come back and, and we’ll, we’ll like loop you into this mental health check [00:13:30] Christina 1: Yeah. My mental health is basically, I’ve spent hours of my life trying to get Taylor Swift tickets and can’t, and now all the tickets are gone, so I’m now going to have to pay. God only knows how much for seats to go with my mom in Atlanta. I don’t know how I’m going to get tickets to Seattle. I did get tickets to New York at least, but motherfucker, I swear to God, I am so fucking pissed right now. [00:13:55] Jeff 1: So do you need to, to bail and just keep trying [00:13:58] Christina 1: I’ll check in with you guys later, but this is, this is the Christina angry appearance of Overtired. [00:14:04] Jeff 1: Should we, should we leave this in or edit it out? [00:14:05] Christina 1: it in. I don’t care. [00:14:07] Jeff 1: All right. It’s kind. We’ll leave it [00:14:08] Brett 1: Yeah. And pop, pop back in anytime [00:14:10] Christina 1: pop, I’ll pop back in. Hopefully I’ll be able to be successful at some point. All right. Bye. [00:14:15] Brett 1: All right. [00:14:16] Jeff 1: All right. Good luck, Christina. [00:14:17] Brett 1: All right, so we’re stopping and starting on a rollercoaster. You got some eye stuff going on. [00:14:22] Jeff 1: It’s been a really, uh, hard few weeks because little things have been going wrong constantly, as big things are also going wrong, constantly . So one interesting thing. is there is a nationwide Adderall and thereby vi Vance shortage. [00:14:46] Brett 1: Oh, really? [00:14:48] Jeff 1: I can’t get a prescription from mine. I take a pretty small dose, 20 milligrams, although I was planning to jump up a little bit, but, um, friends of mine who have been able to get it have only been able to get it by calling around to all sorts of different [00:15:06] Brett 1: Oh shit. [00:15:07] Jeff 1: if they have any. [00:15:09] Oftentimes finding luck with mom and pop pharmacies, but I would imagine that that’s a phase that will be over quickly once everyone realizes you just need to call the mom and pop pharmacies. And so for me that hasn’t been such a big deal. In fact, it just so happens I had a friend who had stopped taking it and had a bottle of it and um, and so I [00:15:30] Brett 1: depended on the kindness of strangers before. [00:15:33] Jeff 1: And so I was able to just kind of re-up that way. Um, but just wanna send, uh, send my, uh, my love and care out to anybody out there for whom it’s a real problem that they can’t, um, get ahold of that particular medication. Cause I know for some that, that it’s, they, it’s, it’s, it’s a lifesaver every day. And I also know that it being sort of an amphetamine, like, you know, you could make bad decisions trying to, uh, fill that. [00:16:02] Brett 1: here’s my concern. I have a refill coming up on Thursday. If, uh, if I were to go, you know, three to four days without my vivs, when I started again, three, three plus days when I started again, it is almost guaranteed to throw me into a manic episode. [00:16:23] Jeff 1: Oh. [00:16:23] Brett 1: Like, uh, drug vacations do not work when you have bipolar. [00:16:28] So for me to run out is not just a matter of not being able to focus for a few days. It’s a matter of probably losing a, a week or more. [00:16:38] Jeff 1: I just realized, cuz I’ve, I’ve been, I’ve been noticing the last couple days, I feel pretty well treated for bipolar overall. Um, but I do have periods where I feel like, I’m sure this isn’t how it works, this is how it feels like it’s in there, but it’s not quite getting through. Right. And it pops out in certain ways. [00:17:03] Right. Wow. I just filled that Amazon cart pretty full, you know, like, I’m just gonna go ahead and close that, like, that kind of stuff, you know? And I re I’m, you’re helping me to realize two things. One, That I should be paying close attention to that, given that I did take about a week off cause I ran out and then started at a higher dose. [00:17:24] Brett 1: yep. That’ll [00:17:24] Jeff 1: Um, and also just one more thing for me to worry about with people out there in the world who can’t get it, knowing that that can be, uh, what happens if you, if you have to take a break and come back to it. So that really sucks. [00:17:39] Brett 1: Well, I mean, and it’s not just like, uh, being on stimulants long term fucks with your. Your brain’s ability to produce things like dopamine and serotonin. Um, it alters the way that your brain produces those chemicals. And when you are suddenly without something that your brain has depended on to produce something like dopamine, um, going on and off of it can greatly affect the levels of those chemicals, which, when you have a chemical imbalance like bipolar, uh, can easily lead to swings in one direction or the other. [00:18:17] Jeff 1: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay. Wow. That’s a, that’s a bad situation. That shortage. And I don’t, I don’t have a sense of how quickly it’s supposed to come back. Um, [00:18:29] Brett 1: What’s sad is if you really wanted to, you could probably find cocaine pretty easily, um, which is guaranteed to send you into a manic [00:18:38] Jeff 1: Well, and this is what I meant when I said, you know, it worries me because it is an amphetamine that it might be if somebody has a history or just knows how to get cocaine because they did it right and is feeling a little desperate, maybe that’s, you know, a risk. And so everybody out there, be strong. [00:18:57] Brett 1: Be strong. I know exactly what bar to go to in town to find Coke [00:19:03] Jeff 1: Any bar [00:19:04] Brett 1: Yeah. Yeah. Like I know where I, I know where all the Coke heads in town hang out. I know exactly what bar to go to and, and I won’t. Um, I don’t, I don’t need that. My life is fucked up enough already. [00:19:21] Jeff 1: Yeah. So that’s sort of a mental health check in. Um, otherwise there’s just been a lot of activity in my life that is like, I’ve been noticing partly because of medication, but I think also because I have remembered to remind myself how much I have been through in my life and how many hard things I have passed through and possibly hard things I have passed through. [00:19:47] And I kind of had that talk with myself because there’s so much coming up and I’ve noticed that now when things like the jolt, what would’ve been the jolt? I actually don’t even feel the jolt. I just kind of go, okay, we’re pivoting now. We’ve got a tire to be concerned about, you know? Um, and so , maybe that’s my advice to anybody out there and talking to all you, you’ve already been through so much, you can get through this too. [00:20:11] Uh, is is my advice. Sponsor: MindBloom [00:20:14] Brett 1: Speaking of mental health, I’m gonna take our first sponsor break quote. You just need to take better. Your better care of yourself is not a response to mental health struggles. You know all too well you live with them. Sometimes you need something more to achieve a real and lasting breakthrough. Maybe it’s time you check out a guided ketamine therapy program. [00:20:37] Mind Bloom can help. Mind Bloom is a leader in at home ketamine therapy, offering a combination of science backed medicine with clinician and guide support for people looking to improve their mental health and wellbeing. Mind. Bloom connects patients to licensed psychiatric clinicians to help them achieve better outcomes with lower costs, greater convenience, and an artfully crafted experience. [00:21:02] To begin, take Mind Bloom’s online assessment to determine if Mind Bloom is right for you. If approved, you’ll schedule a video consult with a licensed clinician where you’ll discuss your goals and expectations for mental health treatment. Mind Bloom will send you a kit in the mail complete with Medicine treatment materials, and tips for getting the most out of your experience. [00:21:24] After only two sessions, 87% of mind bloom clients reported improvements in depression and 85% reported improvements and anxiety. It’s time to enter the next chapter in mental health and wellbeing. Let mind bloom guide you right now. Mind Bloom is offering our listeners a hundred dollars off your first six session program when you sign up@mindbloom.com slash Overtired and use promo code Overtired at checkout. [00:21:53] Go to mind bloom.com/ Overtired promo code Overtired for $100 off your first six session program today. That’s mind bloom.com/ Overtired. Promo code Overtired. nvUltra News! [00:22:10] Jeff 1: Brett, [00:22:11] Brett 1: Yes, [00:22:12] Jeff 1: you have an NV Ultra. [00:22:14] Brett 1: I do. [00:22:16] Jeff 1: Is it a big update? A little update? A medium update? [00:22:18] Brett 1: No, it’s more of like a what the fuck’s going on. Update. [00:22:23] Jeff 1: You mean, uh, you’re gonna answer that question, not you’re asking it [00:22:27] Brett 1: Yeah, so, so I had a, I had a meeting with my co-author of Nvi Ultra Fletcher right before this podcast, and we haven’t talked for a couple months and, uh, things have been kind of like, we’ve just been putting out beta updates to keep it from expiring while, while we sort through some shit. Um, Fletcher has a lot going on. [00:22:54] He is essentially the only person who can, uh, solve some of the bugs. Like he, he, he owns the code for a good portion of NBI Ultra, and I am entirely dependent on him to fix certain things. And, uh, we had a meeting today. We, we went through our checklist of what’s stopping us from releasing our 1.0. Uh, figuring out what, what is. [00:23:25] A showstopper, like what has to be done before 1.0 and what we can do after an initial release. And we, we narrowed it down to like three things, uh, two bugs for him to solve. One, one thing for me to look further into. And, uh, and then basically testing for store kit, uh, allowing us to have in-app purchases on the Mac app store. [00:23:54] And, and we’re at 1.0, we can find, I don’t, it’s been years, uh, like this has been in progress for years and, and I was starting to lose hope. Um, it was going the way of, do you remember Bit writer [00:24:08] Jeff 1: Yes. [00:24:09] Brett 1: like I had. I keep hitching my wagon to other people’s stars because I’m not confident enough to put out something that people like. [00:24:19] With an app like Envy, ot, uh, you are going to put your entire knowledge base into that app. And the idea of data loss of something going wrong and you losing your knowledge base is terrifying to me. Oh, like being responsible for other people’s knowledge bases is terrifying, and I’ve never wanted to do that on my own and be solely responsible for someone losing years worth of notes. [00:24:48] Um, Which is why I’ve always leaned towards having any app I work with, work with a folder full of markdown files that basically can’t be corrupted. Like there’s no way to lose a folder full of markdown files short of losing your entire hard drive. Um, which is the way I use Nvl. It’s the way we built NV Ultra. [00:25:10] It’s the way that Bit writer was going to be built. Um, but I’ve still wanted help from people that I trusted more than myself, which is why, uh, Fletcher and I teamed up, or why I teamed up with Fletcher. So we’ve got a great product. Anyone on the beta knows that it’s something that you can use every day. [00:25:31] As a daily driver, I use it every day. [00:25:33] Jeff 1: vouch for that. I use it every day. [00:25:35] Brett 1: I love it. I, I, I don’t know what I would do without it. I would probably switch to obsidian, but obsidian, uh, the, the text editor in obsidian is not ideal for my needs. It’s not compatible with services in pop pop clip extensions. And honestly, I just want Nvi Ultra to reach maturity. [00:25:59] Um, but I [00:26:00] Jeff 1: So do I hear you’re saying you’re very, very close. [00:26:03] Brett 1: I, well, I’ve been saying, I’ve been telling everyone we’re very, very close for like a couple years [00:26:08] Jeff 1: Okay, let’s upgrade to very, very, very close. [00:26:11] Brett 1: Very, very, very close. Uh, like we have narrowed it down to three to do items and the only one that is a real show stopper is getting the purchase mechanism set up. And honestly, if we run into further trouble with that, I’m just going to put the app out on, like Paddle, for example. [00:26:33] Uh, skip the Mac App store and just make it something people can purchase directly. [00:26:38] Jeff 1: was hoping you were gonna say Pirate Bay [00:26:42] Brett 1: I’m sure you’ll be able to find it, uh, if you, if you care to pirate it. There’s really nothing you can’t pirate. [00:26:50] Jeff 1: Brett, that’s exciting. I know, I know from knowing you what a journey this has been and, um, and I can’t imagine, but I do know, um, and, and I love the app and I’m really happy for you that you’re very, very, very close. [00:27:06] Brett 1: very, very, very, [00:27:08] Jeff 1: Each one being one of the three items you have to tick off. each. Very [00:27:13] Brett 1: Yes. So as [00:27:14] Jeff 1: how we’ll do it from now on. [00:27:15] Brett 1: as we check them off, we’ll get less and less very close [00:27:20] Jeff 1: Excellent. That’s fantastic, [00:27:24] Brett 1: Um, so I wrote, I wrote a Nord VPN script. [00:27:29] Jeff 1: Yeah. Cats. [00:27:30] Brett 1: Yeah. Do you? And, and we’ve done it before. You’ve heard it before it, I still find it funny. [00:27:37] Jeff 1: What about a random word generator? [00:27:40] Brett 1: What do you, what do you got for me? [00:27:42] Jeff 1: I don’t know. Uh, we’ll, we’ll, word generator. Great. Wilco song? No, that’s a random name. Generator is the Wilco song. All right, let’s see. Random word generator.com. Way to lock that one down, man. Uh, adjectives all adjectives, And, uh, we want three words. Here we go. Uh, generate concerned, insidious, curly [00:28:20] Brett 1: Okay. [00:28:21] Jeff 1: Uh, go ahead Brett. [00:28:23] Brett 1: I am a huge fan of concerned Insidious Curly television, [00:28:28] Jeff 1: Uh, yeah. [00:28:29] Brett 1: which honestly, you can’t find a lot of in the us. Um, none of them are available in my region, and if they were, I wouldn’t necessarily want anyone to know about this obsession with concerned insidious curly television. [00:28:46] Jeff 1: Yeah. [00:28:46] Brett 1: I’d like to enjoy those sweet conservations and privacy. Sponsor: NordVPN [00:28:52] Brett 1: Well, let me introduce Nord vpn. With Nord vpn, I can switch my virtual location on my device with one click and I can access streaming services from over 60 countries at no extra cost. Preser, presumably one of those 60 countries believes in concerned insidious curly television. [00:29:13] Jeff 1: Well, the acronym, and this is funny, it’s cic, but it’s pronounced sick. [00:29:17] Brett 1: Sick, uh, believes in [00:29:19] Jeff 1: sick television. Yeah, exactly. [00:29:22] Brett 1: Uh, you’ve probably heard that VPNs are great for online protection, but they slow down your internet speed always buffering right before you see some of that insidious curly action. Luckily, Nord VPN is the fastest VPN in the world. I don’t even notice it running, so I can stream and browse online with no buffering or lagging as insidious as it gets. [00:29:45] I can even play Insidious Curly, help me sick. I can even play sick tv. Games with no pause. Furthermore, nor VPN prevents my internet service provider from bandwidth throttling so I have consistently reliable insidious love. It’s the price of a cup of coffee every month and far less than adopting your own Insidious Curly. [00:30:13] Jeff 1: Concerned, insidious curly throttling, buffering, [00:30:19] Brett 1: So it’s a small price to pay for premium cybersecurity and a and access to a vast amount of entertaining content from all over the world. Grab your exclusive Nord VPN deal by going to nor vpn.com/ Overtired to get a huge discount off your Nord VPN Plus. Four months for free. It’s completely risk free with Nords 30 day money back guarantee. [00:30:44] That’s n o.com/ Overtired. Go grab this amazing deal. That’s a huge discount and four months for free. Start surfing securely@norvpn.com slash Overtired [00:30:59] Jeff 1: And if you have any questions for Brett, um, about this particular sub-genre, you can reach him at me at concerned Insidious Curly limo. [00:31:09] Brett 1: limo. You gotta, you gotta grab those limo addresses while you can, that that TLD is gonna go fast. [00:31:16] Jeff 1: Ha. We did all right with that. That was good. [00:31:20] Brett 1: We’ve done worse. [00:31:21] Jeff 1: That was a fun, uh, let’s say it. Sick. Sick. Hmm. [00:31:26] Brett 1: Why is nor the only one we fuck with? I wanna fuck with all of our sponsor reads. Nord VPN has been the most lenient about letting us just do whatever we want to with it, as long as, as long as we get that call to action just right. [00:31:42] Jeff 1: Call to action. Yep. Call [00:31:44] Brett 1: The, uh, the, uh, the CTA [00:31:47] Jeff 1: Mm. [00:31:47] Brett 1: as they say in the biz. [00:31:49] Jeff 1: As they say in the biz. [00:31:51] Brett 1: Do you, uh, do you know of any other podcast that listeners might be interested in? [00:31:55] Jeff 1: Oh yeah. Um, yeah. Daddy. Um, one second. . I gotta get back to our [00:32:03] Brett 1: Okay. I gotta preface, I gotta preface this. Read with, we had to rewrite it because nobody on this podcast was comfortable saying the word daddy as many times as it came up in the, in the copy that they gave us. So Jeff Valiantly rewrote this to say the word daddy less often. Podcast Swap: Better Call Daddy [00:32:25] Jeff 1: Our podcast swap this week is with the Better Called Daddy show host Rena Friedman. Watts. Interviews guests like Jerry Springer, man, that’s a name. Uh, judge Alex, nanny Yvonne and Johnny Spoiler. [00:32:44] Brett 1: No relation. [00:32:46] Jeff 1: each. each episode. Rena interviews the guest with her father Wayne Friedman, weighing in at the interview’s. [00:32:54] You can tune in to Better Call Daddy at. You may have guessed it better. Call daddy.com. Thank you. Better call Daddy. Dammit. I still said daddy a lot [00:33:04] Brett 1: Better call daddy limo. [00:33:08] Jeff 1: that we, I I don’t know. They probably bought that up. You know, you always try to buy a few of the more popular ones. [00:33:13] Brett 1: I feel like that’s a completely different site. [00:33:16] Jeff 1: Um, yeah, Um, sorry, I’m still trying to shake off saying Daddy so much. Um, Brad, I did something kind of fucked. [00:33:27] Brett 1: Okay. Taxonomy Corner! [00:33:28] Jeff 1: it’s been just a wild couple weeks and it’s hard for me to focus. And I needed a project for mornings and for night. Um, and so I decided for one day I was going to, uh, sort all of my books by Library of Congress, catalog number, um, , just to see, uh, if it, um, sort of grouped my books in ways that were interesting to me. [00:33:51] And, um, and so , that takes a lot, takes a lot of work. You gotta, you might think you just have to go inside the book. That’s true. It’s usually there. But for, I would say a third of the books, what it says is that Library of Congress ideas been applied for, and it’s not actually written in there, so you have to go searching for it. [00:34:10] And if you’re me, you wanna find the right edition and all this stuff. And so I wrote it on all my books. I wrote, I wrote the Library of Congress, uh, uh, ID on a post-it note. And um, and I sorted them all that way. Which was awesome because I am at a point where I need to get rid of some books and I’ve already gotten rid of a lot. [00:34:32] But I also am at a point where like I’m kind of just bored with how I organize my books. I just, the ones that you’re not reading, like if you wanna keep ’em, but you’re not reading them, you just, I want, I need to do something. Um, something to keep me from reading them. So [00:34:45] Brett 1: you, you need some reason, you need to justify keeping them around. [00:34:49] Jeff 1: need to Yeah. [00:34:49] Write that too. Um, but it was, I mean, I don’t know if anybody out there with a lot of books thinks this is interesting, but it was actually quite cool to see how it grouped different books. And I was kind of surprised by some things. But I have one little kind of comical tidbit if, I know you expected the comedy was coming soon. [00:35:08] Brett 1: I knew it would be. [00:35:09] Jeff 1: There is a, um, black theologian who was a professor of, uh, my partners at Union Theological Seminary in New York City. It’s a very progressive storied seminary. It was awesome to live there. Rafael Warnock actually overlapped with our time there by a year as a student. Um, and, uh, . Yeah, just getting that news hook in. anyway, there’s this, there’s this guy, James Cone, who, um, is like , a really, really well known and beloved radical black theologian. Um, and in the, I think it was the seventies, wrote a book called Black Liberation Theology. Um, and it was an incredible book, kind of merging black power with some theologies that were emerging in Latin America and just generally coming out with something incredibly crisp and badass and, and just powerful as hell. [00:36:06] Anyway, James Cohen, may he rest in peace. Uh, I was looking at his library of Congress number and the way that the Library of Congress numbers work. Thank you for asking, is you’ll have like, it’ll be like HN 180 3, A 44, you know, and then the year, right? Like, and the letters at the top tell you a subject and a, and a like, you know, whatever the next level of subject. [00:36:29] But the author’s name is represented by, The, the, I can’t believe I’m doing this. The author’s name is represented by the, the first letter of the author’s last name, and then a number. Okay. So I look at James Cohen’s book and I look at his library of Congress number and I look at his author id, which is C 6 6 6. [00:36:51] How awesome is that? [00:36:53] Brett 1: Oh no. For a theologian when I was a kid, um, I’m talking. 5, 6, 7 years old. I, I collected rocks. That was my thing. I was gonna grow up, I was gonna be a geologist, and I collected rocks. And, uh, my parents to encourage my endeavors, would let me hang out with geologists, which four people who believed the earth is 6,000 years old, [00:37:22] Jeff 1: Yeah, [00:37:22] Brett 1: bold, a bold move on their part. [00:37:25] Um, but, uh, [00:37:27] Jeff 1: tell the truth. [00:37:28] Brett 1: right? So, but I had a collection of, I don’t, I don’t know exactly how many, but less than a hundred, less than a hundred specimens. Um, but I had collected, I had collected crystals and, and, and rocks from all over the world. And I decided I was going to create a cataloging system. And like the first two letters were a country of origin. [00:37:54] And then there was like a four digit. Uh, number that represented like region. [00:38:00] Jeff 1: whoa, whoa, whoa. How old were you when you were coming up with your own naming convention? [00:38:04] Brett 1: I’m gonna say six. [00:38:06] Jeff 1: Fuck. Okay, go ahead. [00:38:08] Brett 1: It was the same year, it was the same year I started programming when I was six years old. And I developed this, it was, I think ultimately like an 11 digit serial number for each of these rocks in my collection. And I would carefully on the back of the, of the specimen, like put down like a, a layer of white out in like an oval and then, and then paint in the serial number for the rock. [00:38:33] And then I would have an index card catalog [00:38:37] Jeff 1: Oh [00:38:37] Brett 1: of all of my specimens. So I could look at a rock and I could flip through the catalog and locate all of the information on that particular specimen. And honestly, Like it wasn’t necessary. I could have just put a card with each one in its little display case. [00:38:54] But the idea of developing a system, a catalog system for my collection was so appealing to me. I got, I really got off on like the whole idea of catalog systems, [00:39:08] Jeff 1: Hold on. Hold on listeners, everybody. You too, Danny. Glamour. Pay attention. Let’s all go back in time and give this little boy a big hug. That is amazing. That is amazing. [00:39:24] Brett 1: and then they sent me to a, they sent me to a school for the gifted and talented, and my life really took off from there. [00:39:32] Jeff 1: Did you, um, do you have those anymore? [00:39:35] Brett 1: I have some of the, I have some of the specimens. Yeah. And some of them still have the old catalog numbers on them, but I’ve long since lost track of the cataloging system, so the numbers are gibberish to me now. [00:39:46] Jeff 1: have them in your house? Will you take a picture for the show? Uh, image [00:39:51] Brett 1: I’ll see what I can find. Yeah. [00:39:53] Jeff 1: That is fantastic, man. I love that. I love that so much. And that it coin that it coincided with you starting programming. I mean, my God. So now, like, I remember once having a long conversation with you about tagging, and now I, if we were to do that again, I, I would just couldn’t help but see that little boy in you as you talked about it, not just the like adult computer genius. [00:40:20] Brett 1: Well, and I ran, I ran into the same problems when I started programming, uh, which was like, I had friends, uh, who were taking calculus in third grade. Um, like I went to a school for gifted and talented and I always felt like the imposter there. Um, and these friends would like, I’m working with logo, you remember logo. [00:40:46] Jeff 1: I mean, I know what it is, but I, I didn’t [00:40:48] Brett 1: And I’m drawing like floor plans for a house with, with logo, and they’re creating fractals and they’re teaching me like, well, it’s obviously if you do this in this pattern, it’s gonna create a and it’s blowing my mind at, you know, seven years old. And, uh, like I’ve always suffered from this. Like, I can do this, but I can never do it as well as the people around me. [00:41:14] Um, so that started really young for me. [00:41:17] Jeff 1: Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, I hear you man. [00:41:22] Brett 1: I have a friend who composed, or, or not composed, but played, um, Beethoven on an eight bit sound card. Um, like monophonic, like, so to make it sound like you were playing a chord, you had to sequence. Multiple notes in, in rapid enough succession that it was, that it would audibly sound like a chord. Um, which, which you can find on like old Atari games and everything. [00:41:54] But, [00:41:55] Jeff 1: bring, [00:41:56] Brett 1: but it takes, it takes some genius. And I have a friend who pulled off like an entire symphony on an eight bit sound card. I’ve always been surrounded by people way smarter than me, [00:42:08] Jeff 1: Uh, see, I, you know what though, , and you’re, you’re making me think about myself here because I, I have said exactly that so many times and it’s interesting to me on the other side of that where I kind of wanna be, Are they way smarter than you though? , right? Like really [00:42:24] Brett 1: sincerely, sincerely, I, yes. [00:42:27] Jeff 1: I know. Sometimes it is just the truth. I, I, I definitely get it. I definitely get it. Grapptitude [00:42:34] Jeff 2: Should we do some gratitude? [00:42:37] Brett 2: Yeah, let’s do some gratitude. [00:42:39] Jeff 2: You go first. [00:42:41] Brett 2: Okay. I will start. Um, affinity, you know, like Affinity photo publisher designer, uh, they, they make, uh, all of the amazing, uh, Adobe. Uh, competition, uh, for like Photoshop and Illustrator. Uh, they just came out with version two of all three of their apps, uh, designer and photo and publisher, and they’re, they’re good. [00:43:07] My pick for today is, is Affinity Photo two. Um, there, there are new features in all of them, but Affinity Photo two adds, like they, so the layer palette. It was always workable, but there were always things about it that bugged me in version one. Um, like it was hard to move, uh, child layers around. Uh, you couldn’t tell the difference at a glance between like a, a mask layer and an adjustment layer. [00:43:34] Um, like they fixed all of that completely reworked. The, the layers palette, they added non-destructive raw editing, so you can reprocess a raw photo at any time. Um, like cool stuff like live masks for adjustment layers, uh, and you can apply adjustment layers to like hue and luminosity ranges, which is, there’s some really cool effects there. [00:43:59] Uh, live mesh warp, like they’ve always had me warp, but it’s been a little annoying. [00:44:04] Jeff 2: What is Mesh Warp? [00:44:05] Brett 2: basically imagine you put a grid over a photo and then you drag points in the grid and to warp them and it adjusts the photo smoothly underneath [00:44:16] Jeff 2: Cool. I’ve never done that. [00:44:18] Brett 2: for, great for like aligning, aligning things in a, in a photo that are need more than just a rotation where you actually have to like shift like liquid, liquid warping. [00:44:29] Um, and they added WebP export finally. Uh, but there’s, it’s a ton of new stuff. It’s totally, I think it’s like for a hundred dollars you can upgrade all three applications. Um, and, and so I, I did, I’m exploring them right now. I have only dug into photo cause that’s the one I use the most. Uh, but yeah, it’s, it’s a great [00:44:52] Jeff 2: The, there’s a, there’s a thing about their iPad app and there’s an amazing image of a zebra and they’ve made it look like a large balloon is pulling its stripes off. I was like, that is some, that is some deep thinking, man. [00:45:06] Brett 2: Their, their marketing materials, like the, the stuff they put together using their own apps, it, it sells itself. Like they’re such amazing compositions that Yeah. You’re like, oh, if I could have an app that could make that, I’ll pay [00:45:22] Jeff 2: That’s awesome. [00:45:23] Brett 2: it’s like 60 bucks per app. And compared to what you pay for, like Adobe Creative Suite, uh, they’re, yeah, they’re a steal. [00:45:31] They’re so good. [00:45:32] Jeff 2: so you’re a developer. I’m, I’m wondering what it must be like to put out, uh, version two of all three of your seriously major apps at a time. [00:45:44] Brett 2: Oh [00:45:45] Jeff 2: I don’t remember. I don’t feel like I’ve seen that happen often. [00:45:48] Brett 2: No, probably not. But they also link their apps together, such that, like right now you can drag a publisher file into a photo document and then change the page. Like you could apply like a, so you put a magazine into your photo document, and then you apply a meshwork to like curl a page up. [00:46:10] Then with that live meshwork applied, you can change which page is showing in the, in the, uh, publisher document. Um, so everything like ties together such that they almost have [00:46:22] Jeff 2: Almost have to, yeah. [00:46:23] Brett 2: release it all at once yet, but it’s a huge undertaking. I don’t know how many developers they have on staff, but it’s, it’s gotta be a significant amount. [00:46:33] Jeff 2: That is amazing. That is amazing, man. Can I do a, a quick follow up on a, on a past, uh, gratitude [00:46:41] Brett 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. [00:46:42] Jeff 2: Last night I met, um, somebody had dinner with somebody who writes, um, Marvel Comics. And she, um, also is a ya uh, novelist. And, and I asked her cause I just had a feeling, anybody who’s doing all that kind of stuff, I’m like, you s Scribner, don’t you, [00:47:00] And she’s like, yep, I sure do. And uh, what was fun is something I only know from your previous podcast, uh, Systematic, is that, that is, is or at least was built by a single person in, [00:47:12] Brett 2: Yeah, yeah, [00:47:14] Jeff 2: I [00:47:14] Brett 2: yeah. He has, he has a, he has a developer on staff [00:47:18] Jeff 2: Okay. Okay. [00:47:19] Brett 2: that, but yeah, the original Scribner 1.0 was developed by a single developer, and it is such a complete and, and really complex application that even with two people, it’s still an outstanding piece of [00:47:34] Jeff 2: And what’s so unique about it is like of all the nerd software that you know, might come up from the three of us on gratitude, um, that is the one that man, it’s reach is so far. Like people that don’t otherwise do any kind of Mac nerd stuff or just like nerd software, they are all over Scribner. [00:47:55] Brett 2: Because it’s a pro level app, it’s not, it’s not what you would consider indie software, even though it very much [00:48:01] Jeff 2: Right, right. [00:48:02] Brett 2: but it, but like professional writers rely on Scribner, and it has quite a good reputation in the writing community. [00:48:10] Jeff 2: amazing. So, and I have other stuff like that. Most of my gratitude is just follow. [00:48:15] Jeff 1: One is Christina had talked about vhs, a tool from Charm bracelet, which makes such good stuff like bubble gum, um, which allows you to write terminal gifts as code. Um, and somebody took that and recreated sci-fi terminals from movies we all love, including Matrix, um, including Jurassic Park War games, of course Alien. [00:48:43] And it just is such a cool way to show you what VHS is capable of, but it’s also. Just fun on its own. Um, and so I wanna put that, that was Christina’s pick VHS a couple weeks ago. Um, and then for me, like I, I just wanna like shout out again to Firefox containers, um, starting with their Facebook container, which just like allows you to open Facebook work in Facebook. [00:49:11] I mean, sorry, open Facebook. Look at Facebook without Facebook being able to get its dirty. Little fingers all over everything else you’ve opened. [00:49:20] Brett 1: Filthy pause. [00:49:21] Jeff 1: Filthy paws. Um, and what’s so cool about it is they took, they went from there to letting you create any kind of container. So like I have a container for my banking stuff and I have a container for, um, one G Gmail account, which means I can have another container for another Gmail account. [00:49:38] And so I can have all this stuff open. But the cool thing is you can make it so that whenever you go to that um, URL in the future, it automatically opens in the right container. And that is just like such a beautiful thing. I’m so grateful to them. Cause I’ve been on Facebook more lately than I have in the past, and it’s just so nice to know that I’ve got it in a little maximum security prison. [00:50:00] And I can, if I want Zuckerberg to come out, I can let him out. But, uh, otherwise he stays in. You’re here. [00:50:08] Christina 2: I’m here. Yes. [00:50:10] Brett 1: wanted to throw in that I watched, uh, an entire day and a half of GitHub Universe and it was a delight to see you on screen doing like a real Today show kind of vibe. Between, between all of the talks. It it was it You were very good. I was very impressed. I could not be on as much as you were on for a day and a half. [00:50:35] It was exhausting. Just watching you like that would be so emotionally draining for me. [00:50:42] Christina 2: And, and thank you for saying that. It was, it was really fun. But yeah, no, it was sort of exhausting. And then it was what was great about the event and what I loved about it, but it also just added to the exhaustion, would be I would step off stage and try to kind of, like, I couldn’t, I really couldn’t attend sessions unfortunately, but I’d walk around and interact with people. And I would run into people that I knew who, some of ’em I haven’t seen in years and then, you know, immediately have to get into conversations and stuff. And so it was just like, you’re like literally never able to, like we had a green room and, and we did go in that from time to time, but for the most part, like, yeah, you’re just not ever allowed a time to [00:51:16] Brett 1: it would be fun to do one or the other, to to host or to greet, you know, all your old friends. Uh, but to do both. That’s a, that’s a real playful. [00:51:27] Christina 2: No, it was a lot, but it was really fun. And I’m glad you watched and I, I’m glad. Um, did you, uh, did you like the content? I thought there was some really good sessions and stuff in there. [00:51:35] Brett 1: Yeah, it was excellent. I, I love GitHub. I love everything GitHub’s doing. [00:51:40] Christina 2: Yeah, I, I do too. Uh uh okay. So my pick of the week actually is going to be, and I’m sorry that this is an ad, but it’s not cuz it’s cool GitHub Code Spaces because it’s now free for everybody for 60 hours a month. So code Spaces is actually incredibly cool. So the idea is basically it’s more than just vs. [00:51:58] In your browser, because there are some other things that can kind of do that, but it’s basically like a whole dev environment in your browser or in your local dev editor or on your iPad or whatever the case may be. So the idea is basically using the remote, um, uh, development extension, which is what this is based on, which is been probably the single biggest like, game changing developer thing in my life, basically, I have to say. [00:52:24] Like, so you remember, well, obviously you remember you would, but, but, uh, listeners might remember, uh, you know, text mate had like the, the remote text mate extension that was in Ruby where you could. Basically be in a terminal and then you could just type in, you know, mate, whatever. And then you could open your files and your terminal and whatnot in Text Main. [00:52:42] That was great. Okay, so what if you could do that, but in addition, you could also have access to all the files in a project. You could have all like the build environment variables. You could run something, you could test it, and it didn’t have to locally be on your machine. You didn’t have to have the dependencies installed on your machine. [00:53:00] You didn’t have to have Docker [00:53:02] Brett 1: have to run a container. Yeah, [00:53:03] Christina 2: have, yeah, you didn’t have to have Docker set up, you didn’t have to deal with Kubernetes. You didn’t even necessarily have to be on like the same platform of what you were building on. Um, but you could still do it from like either your local vs code instance or if you wanted to, you could do it from a web browser. [00:53:20] Well, that is, um, a GitHub code spaces. And so the idea is you can create a dev container JSON file, and that’s an open standard. A lot of people are using like jet brains, that’s using it. A lot of people are using it to basically in your repository, set up all your project files and basically be like, this is the, um, the, the, the container essentially, or the VM that I would want this project to run in and how I would wanna access it. [00:53:46] Um, but you can also do really cool things. Like you can say, these are the extensions that I wanna have automatically installed, and these are like the settings that I wanna have automatically imported. These are the dot files that I wanna have automatically using. And they can be done like on a per repository basis. [00:54:03] And then you spin it up, you use it. It is, it is happening on the cloud, but the way that it happens is actually remarkably fast. So like what’s happening locally on. Feels native. And then any of, like, if you’re, you know, running tests or, or builds or whatever, that’s what’s happening on the cloud, meaning that you can, like, we use this at GitHub and the GitHub, GitHub repository is like, we use like 64 cores for it because it’s a massive monorepo. [00:54:30] And you know, this would be the sort of thing that if you were trying to do a build on your own machine, even on an M one, it could be a really long process. Um, and, and also would be something that you wouldn’t necessarily wanna have to like, dedicate all the resources on your machine to, right. Like, okay, I’m just trying to do a build. [00:54:49] I have other shit I need to do. [00:54:51] Brett 1: yeah. Cuz you’re only work working with a fraction of it. [00:54:53] Christina 2: Exactly. Exactly. And, and this is where code spaces I think is really great for a lot of scenarios. A, for really big things where you might need more, more power. But b I think like one of the ways that we’ve seen a lot of people use this, and this is why I’m really excited. [00:55:06] We now have kind of a free plan available for everyone, which we’ve worked really hard, um, to, to get and, and that we, we hope will be competitive and that people will like, um, is that like, if you’re a, in the classroom, I think it’s really beneficial, but whether you’re like, you know, high school or college students or if you’re doing, you know, like, like upskilling or people who are learning to code, like, it’s a lot easier to give people kind of like a preset environment to play with [00:55:32] Brett 1: Yeah, for sure. [00:55:33] Christina 2: Hey, for this workshop, like this is actually a great example. [00:55:36] Like, even if you’re a well, like adept developer, if you’re taking a workshop and the first half of it, like oftentimes they’ll give you pre-homework where they’re like, Hey, you’re gonna need to, yeah, you’re gonna need to set up this environment and you’re going to need to have all this stuff done before we even get started. [00:55:52] If instead you. You know, go to a repo and click an open Code spaces button. That changes so many things. Um, but it also, I think, like, will make it easier, like if you wanna commit something to a code base, right? Like if you are wanting to contribute something to someone’s open source project. But again, I don’t necessarily wanna have to install all the dependencies and containerize everything that’s going on just so I can make a commit. [00:56:20] Like, I might actually want to make some changes, but I don’t wanna have to necessarily set all that stuff up, right? Like I, I think that, um, it’s, uh, there are a lot of ways where both, like for people of developers of all backgrounds can really take advantage of it. I’ve been using this since, um, it was called Visual Studio Code Spaces. [00:56:40] And, um, before that, a lot of us at Microsoft were using the remote code extension, which is what all of this is kind of based off of to run things like. In VMs or in our closets or whatnot, like on like raspberry pies or on servers or other things to basically be like, we were like trying to figure out, hey, how can we get co um, code, uh, visual Studio code running on, uh, a web browser? [00:57:03] So I’ve been using a variation of this for a number of years now. I love it. And then the, the thing that we announced at, uh, GitHub Universe is that Code Spaces is now free for all. Um, it’s used to only be available to, uh, teams and like enterprises, and now it’s available to everybody for 60 hours a month. [00:57:21] And so, um, if you wanna have a more powerful vm, if you wanna use it for more time, then you pay. But, uh, it’s free for everybody for 60 hours a month. And, uh, uh, that was a really, really long, uh, kind of ad, but, but, but I also, I think it’s really cool [00:57:37] Brett 1: For those, for those who missed GitHub Universe, that was your taste of, of the, of the brilliance that came out of GitHub Universe this year. Yeah, that was, that was an exciting announcement. Yeah. I actually haven’t played with code spaces. [00:57:52] Christina 2: think you would love it. I think you would love [00:57:54] Brett 1: even like Oracle doesn’t even have an enterprise account. [00:57:57] Uh, we, we have whatever we, we pay per seat for [00:58:04] Christina 2: Pro for teams, [00:58:05] Brett 1: Yeah. But, but we don’t have, uh, we don’t have enterprise. So I haven’t played with this yet. Uh, definitely gonna explore it now though. [00:58:13] Christina 2: Yeah. No, I think you should, I think you’ll like it a lot. Um, like I said, like it just, it makes, just doing it with small things a lot easier. Um, what I love about it is I switch between computers a lot and I don’t always know what I have locally set up. And, um, like I, I did some demos of code spaces when I was in Tel Aviv, and I, I hadn’t been at GitHub very long when I did that and I like showed off, I was like, Hey, this is a.net project. [00:58:41] I don’t have.net installed. I like opened up my terminal, showed them it is not installed. Then using BS code, like I didn’t even use the web browser. Like I opened a code space instance and uh, then I was like using the terminal in code spaces and I was like, look, here it is. You know, like all this [00:59:01] Brett 1: That’s awesome. [00:59:02] Christina 2: So it’s really cool. Uh, I think you’ll like it a lot. Um, it’s um, it, it, it’s, it’s good stuff. So yeah, code spaces is my pick of the week. [00:59:10] Brett 1: Awesome. All right. Well, you, uh, you showed up for what’s, uh, 20 minutes of the [00:59:17] Christina 2: 10 minutes, 11 minutes. [00:59:19] Brett 1: 10, 11. Jesus. All right, . So you have no idea what else we’ve talked [00:59:25] Christina 2: I have no clue. But I will listen. I will listen. [00:59:29] Brett 1: did you listen to last week’s with, uh, with, with Brian and Quinn? [00:59:33] Christina 2: no I didn’t, but I will go back and [00:59:35] Brett 1: I, I, I recommend checking it out. It was, it’s, it’s two hosts from the Technically Queer Pro podcast. [00:59:42] Uh, you, you’ve met Brian before. Quinn was a delight. Uh, definitely. If anyone missed that last episode, it was, it was just me out of the three cohosts, uh, with, with the technically queer podcast or two of them. Yeah, it, it, it, I think it came out great. I loved it. Um, but thanks for showing up. I’m sorry you didn’t get, uh, all the tickets you were hoping for [01:00:08] Christina 2: Well, I got the ones for New York, which that’s great, but I really wanted to go with my mom and it is now going to cost us significantly more money. [01:00:20] Brett 1: I’m so sorry. [01:00:21] Christina 2: Yeah. So instead [01:00:22] Brett 1: but it’s gonna work out. It’s gonna work out. [01:00:24] Christina 2: it will, it’s just instead of paying $1,500, I might wind up paying like $3,600 and [01:00:32] Brett 1: insane. [01:00:33] Christina 2: it is insane. But, But at least I got floor seats in New York and the, the, the New York show Phoebe Bridges is opening for. [01:00:43] So that’s exciting. Yeah. [01:00:47] Brett 1: I still haven’t checked her out. I still need to, I still need to familiarize myself [01:00:52] Christina 2: thought you had, I thought, I thought, I thought I thought you [01:00:54] Brett 1: No, I told you I would and I never did. [01:00:57] Christina 2: Okay. Cuz like you, she of all of them, like she actually is your shit. Like unabashedly. Like unabashedly, [01:01:05] Brett 1: I will, I will redouble my efforts. Awesome. Well, thanks for showing up for a little bit, Christina. Appreciate it. [01:01:12] Christina 2: you. And, uh, yeah, sorry for just coming in hot. You like literally got me when I was like at my hottest, I was like at my hottest. I was like, motherfucker. [01:01:22] Brett 1: if, if Jeff hasn’t edited that part out at this point, uh, I, I feel like it’s a, it’s a good comedic break from the mental health [01:01:30] Christina 2: Honestly, it kind of is. Honestly, if he, if he doesn’t edit it out, honestly, it should just be like a bonus thing that we put on. I. And Christina appears and brings chaos completely changes the vibe. [01:01:43] Brett 1: chaotic, evil. Um, hey, get some sleep. [01:01:47] Christina 2: him sleep right. [01:01:48] Intro-Outro: system is going down low.

Jeff and Christina are both out this week, so Brett brought on special guests Bryan Guffey and Quinn Pollock from the Technically Queer podcast. A deep dive into mental health and relationships, a bit of pop culture, and some great apps. Sponsor Show Links Bryan Guffey Quinn Pollock Technically Queer Podcast Rust programming language Deno Andor A more civilized age The Bastard Son and The Devil Himself My Hero Academia Assasination Classroom Steven Universe Heartstopper Heartbreak High LaunchBar Raycast Octal for Hacker News GitHub Repo Arc Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript A Special Episode with Bryan and Quinn [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:03] Hey listeners, you are in for a weird episode of Overtired this week. Um, both Christina and Jeff have had to take the week off for differing reasons. Uh, so it’s me, Brett Terpstra, and I am here with two special guests from the technically Queer podcast. We have Brian Guffy and Quinn Pollock. How are you doing? [00:00:29] Bryan: Amazing. Absolutely amazing. [00:00:32] Quinn: Pretty well considering. Brian gave me one minute notice and I’m just vibing. I’m pretty good, pretty [00:00:38] Brett: I’m super psyched that you were available with one minute notice. [00:00:43] Bryan: Quinn’s pretty talented, as you say. Quinn, you have adhd, so you’re always ready to talk. [00:00:47] Quinn: always prepared to talk. The brain is going a thousand miles an hour. What will come out? Mostly something put together, you know, hopefully. [00:00:55] Brett: And Brian, you have ADHD too, right? [00:00:58] Bryan: Oh yeah, [00:01:00] absolutely. Yeah, [00:01:00] Brett: So this is, this is a very adhd. It usually is, but we have, we have replaced our two usual regular ADHD cohost with two new ADHD cohosts, um, [00:01:15] Bryan: and honestly, like what you’re probably getting is double Christina and less Jeff in this when you think about the energy, honestly. Um, Jeff is, Jeff is an orchestrator like nobody else. [00:01:27] Brett: kidding. [00:01:28] Bryan: Uh, he’s amazing. [00:01:30] Quinn: If there’s one thing I’m not, it’s an orchestrator, [00:01:33] Brett: Same. That’s, that’s three non orchestrators trying to put together an episode here. Um, but, uh, but I would love it if you two who know each other way better than I do, if you two kind of want to interview slash introduce each other to the Overtired audience. [00:01:54] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. Um, Quinn. I’ve been on this show before, so I’ll start by interviewing [00:02:00] you. [00:02:00] Quinn: I was gonna recommend that, That was my [00:02:02] Bryan: yeah. Excellent. Okay, Quinn, so can you tell me, uh, a little bit about yourself? Where are you from? What do you do? Um, yeah, and like, what is, and then some, something fun about yourself. We’re doing icebreakers on technically queer. [00:02:16] Oh, no. What’s your, what? What is, what are your mental illnesses? That’s my [00:02:20] Quinn: What are my mental illnesses? Okay. I love that. Um, okay, so my name’s Quinn already been spoken. I’m actually a Canadian. I come from America’s hat, um, AK Canada, ak, um, the Place Without a Roof. Um, I joke there’s a long joke that no one understands about that. [00:02:36] Where America’s on fire, we don’t have a roof. That’s the connection. But yeah, I’m from Canada. I grew up in Ontario, Toronto, the the one city people know, and now I live in beautiful British Columbia, aka Vancouver. That’s the city. Uh, what do I do? I’m a programmer. Um, I program for my job. I work at, uh, yet to be unnamed company. [00:02:57] Uh, it’s one of the ones, it’s very important, if you google [00:03:00] my name, it’s the first thing that shows up. So I pretend like no one will know if I don’t say it, but it’s literally the first thing that will show up if you Google my name. So it’s, it’s not a secret. [00:03:10] Brett: right. [00:03:10] Bryan: it’s Amazon. [00:03:11] Quinn: Yeah, it’s Amazon. It’s Amazon. I work for amazon.com specifically.com. [00:03:15] Um, uh, and yeah, I’m a programmer. Uh, and I also, uh, I guess, you know, I’m a podcaster now. I’ve decided I’m on technically queer. Uh, it’s a podcast. I had a role playing game podcast for a bit. Don’t google it as bad. Um, and uh, yeah, my mental illness is okay, so like, actually officially my only official diagnosed mental illness. [00:03:40] Is autism. Uh, I have, I have a touch of theism, one might say, Uh, but, uh, everyone I know is like, You have adhd. It’s impossible that you don’t. And I’m like, Well, yeah, that checks out. I believe that. Uh, but I’m getting diagnosed. You can’t have a doctor in Canada. Good luck getting diagnosed. So, [00:04:00] uh, I don’t actually officially have it, but you’ll learn by listening that I, in fact, probably I do. [00:04:07] Uh, and you know, I, [00:04:10] Bryan: language? [00:04:11] Quinn: Okay, so that’s an impossible question to answer, um, [00:04:15] Bryan: Your currently favorite. [00:04:17] Quinn: well, okay, so my current favorite in my heart and soul, Is the rust programming language, but it’s actually too complicated to get things that I wanna do done in it. Um, and so, uh, I, as a, I, I’m a web developer. I love making silly, stupid little websites. [00:04:32] Uh, so, you know, I, I work in JavaScript. I work in type script. We’re all too mean to her. Um, and we need to be nicer to JavaScript. She’s a mess, but she’s put, she’s a work workhorse, you know, Rust knows what’s going on, puts it all well together, but, you know, doesn’t actually do. That’s I, Now, now, now Rust does a lot, but JavaScript’s the workhorse. [00:04:55] And, uh, I think we, we need, we need more, more, more respect for JavaScript. [00:04:59] Brett: [00:05:00] Do, do, just do Russ and JavaScript relate to each other in any way. Is there, So I haven’t gotten into Russ yet. It’s. Rust and go are kind of next to my to-do list vying for my attention. Um, I’m mostly interested in learning rust. Uh, I am, I am adept at JavaScript. Will JavaScript help me get into rust? [00:05:21] Quinn: No, [00:05:22] Brett: No. [00:05:23] Quinn: rust is, Rust is complicated, but the compiler helps you out. Um, and rust and JavaScript are related because, uh, everyone’s writing their things in rust to compile JavaScript because it’s slow. So like Next js, which is one of the like big new JavaScript frameworks, the compiler for that is written in Speedy Web compiler, which is written in Rust. [00:05:45] They just rewrote their web pack engine called Turbo Pack, that’s also written in Rust. Rust is being used a lot for like, JavaScript, like low level stuff to make it faster because JavaScript is slow. Like if, if, I don’t know [00:06:00] if you heard about Dino, it’s like that other JavaScript engine. So there’s no Js, No js is what most people used to run JavaScript on the server. [00:06:07] The person that wrote that was like, It’s bad and I don’t like it. And it’s written c plus plus and it makes it things. So wrote a new engine for the server called Dino, which is funny cuz it’s like Node but swapped [00:06:19] Brett: All that. [00:06:21] Quinn: D e n o. [00:06:22] Brett: Okay. [00:06:24] Quinn: Um, and that’s written in rust. Uh, so Rust is being used a lot. The community is really good. [00:06:29] I think that’s one thing that people really like about it, is like, it has really like good community and, um, it’s very safe. It’s fun. Um, I think it lets you do a lot of cool stuff, uh, but it’s definitely angry all the time. Whenever you use it, you’re like, it’s like, don’t, you can’t do that. And you’re like, But I want to. [00:06:46] And it’s like, No, you can’t do that. And you’re like, Why? And it’s like, because I need to be memory safe. [00:06:51] Bryan: what’s the other thing about Russ that really like aligns you with it that people [00:06:56] Quinn: it’s, that’s the, it’s the most transgender programming language [00:07:00] obviously. Um, there’s a lot of like, there’s a lot of like trans people that are like helping move rust forward and like big in the rust community. There’s one like thing that people use to learn rust. It’s called, um, it’s an unofficial guide to rust, learning rust with too many linked lists. [00:07:17] And at one point there’s a funny trans joke, uh, in it because the trans community’s big on Russ. There’s like, my friend once sent me a meme, which was like the before Russ programming language, and it was a little anime boy, and it was after the Russ programming language. And uh, it became, uh, it became like a trans person. [00:07:39] So it’s just very, it’s very trans. It’s very funny. Um, and, uh, I really like it. I like kind of got into it a little bit because of that, but I also think like it’s cool that what it can do at its goals and stuff. But yeah, I feel like that’s, that’s the vibe. [00:07:55] Bryan: Great. Um, wonderful. So how [00:08:00] do you, uh, what do you want to know about me Quinn? [00:08:03] Quinn: What? Oh, Brian, I have important question about you. Yeah. Okay. Important question. So you a where, where, where you’ve been on this before, so maybe you’ve said where in the world you are, but it’s always fun to know that question. Uh, and then, uh, I’m gonna throw it back to you. What mental illnesses do you have and, uh, what mental illnesses do you probably have? [00:08:23] Bryan: Sure. Absolutely. So, uh, my name is Brian Guffy. I am not Carmen San Diego, which means that I have been in Southern California, nor around Los Angeles for the past couple of years. Before that I lived in Ohio. I lived in, I lived in Ohio the most in my life, but I was born in Kansas and I’ve also lived in New York City and the Chicago suburbs. [00:08:46] Um, uh, my mental illness is boy, uh, adhd, diagnosed when I was six years old. So I’ve been on medication since six years old. Um, and then, Also [00:09:00] generalized anxiety disorder, um, uh, illness, anxiety disorder, and, uh, complex ptsd. And then also, I haven’t been diagnosed, but also probably a bit of the, my therapists basically agreed with me that I have autism, but she’s like, I’m not an autism specialist, so I can’t diagnose you with it. [00:09:23] Um, so yeah, I mean, that’s me. I think, uh, I, yeah, that, those are my mental illnesses. And I, this is my like fifth time on, uh, Overtired. And I am definitely tired today. I didn’t get a lot of sleep, um, because my ADHD caused me and my boyfriend to have a little fight yesterday because the hardest thing for an ADHD person, at least my version of ADHD, is when I’m happy to, to say less. [00:09:54] Right, to just be like, Oh, you told me something important about your life or thing that you’re working on. [00:10:00] All I need to say is that’s great. I support you. Not, Oh, did you think about it this way? yeah. [00:10:11] Brett: I, uh, yeah, no, I’m pretty good at, at, uh, when my partner tells me something that is j like she’s in a good mood. Great, great story. Whatever I’m pretty good at, just like, That’s awesome. Um, I support you. Uh, she tends to like, ask questions like perfectly legitimate questions about whatever. I’m excited and, and it will like, it’ll like bring my mood down cuz like, suddenly I’ll have to like face some reality that I hadn’t considered before when my mood was elevated. [00:10:43] Um, it gets, it gets messy, but [00:10:47] Bryan: Yeah. That happens with me and my boyfriend. It is like we’re both navigating this thing where we’re like, can we say something to each other without it causing one of us to be upset and, [00:11:00] and like letting go. Both. Letting go of the, like the worry about that, but then also like, Being aware that that’s probably a place where your partner is. [00:11:09] So to give them the space where you can hold your reaction, you know, and think about it with yourself is just difficult. And we’re both working and tired. Like who? Who invented work? Why? [00:11:24] Brett: this’ll lead into our mental health corner. But Quinn, do you see a therapist for your autism? [00:11:30] Quinn: Okay, so for my autism, no. Do I see a therapist? Yes. Do I talk about autism all the time? Is it officially for autism? No, [00:11:41] Brett: But does your, Is your therap, does your therapist understand autism? [00:11:45] Quinn: I would say, yeah, [00:11:47] Brett: Okay. That okay? That’s what I was actually asking. Do you see a therapist that understands autism? [00:11:52] Quinn: I would say, yeah. Um, I think I like my therapist. She’s good and I think she like understands my brain in [00:12:00] a way, which is helpful cuz [00:12:02] Brett: Yeah. [00:12:03] Quinn: brains are silly, you know? [00:12:06] Brett: Yeah. My, my girlfriend with autism has a therapist that she loves and, uh, and she gets advice and, and coping mechanisms and techniques and things from her therapist that I don’t think she could get anywhere else, and that have made her life immeasurably better. And like, that’s Brian, That’s why, like, I would love if you could get an actual diagnosis so that you could put, I mean, you could, you could talk to a therapist about it either way. [00:12:41] Bryan: Yeah, I talked to my therapist about it. I don’t know how much experience she has with autism particularly, and honestly, I’m not sure how much experience she has with adhd particularly. I chose this therapist because I wanted to really work [00:13:00] on, um, like race, like, like some of the, some of the stuff related to like being a black person and a queer person in a, in, in America at the time that I chose her. [00:13:13] But yeah, now there is this other stuff that sort of like lays on top of some of my, my traumas. Like we were. We had, I had a, Nathan and I had a big fight last week, and, but it turned out that like, I thought it was because, oh, I don’t feel like I deserve to be in a relationship, But it turned out she was like, No, I think that what it is is that you are afraid of being abandoned and because of what’s happened to you in the past, and you don’t deal with that like you or, and, or like the grief that, like the relationship that you, you know, there’s always a difference between the relationship you want and the relationship you have, like the ideal relationship and the real one that you have. [00:13:58] And you have [00:14:00] to be able to like, hold space for the idea that my relationship is not everything that I wanted, but it, it is incredibly valuable to me, Especially I’m, I’m Polly. So that’s the other piece of it, right? Is that every relationship, like if I’m not getting something in one relationship, I can get it in another, but. [00:14:20] She pointed out to me, you need to hold space for the fact that like you aren’t getting everything that you thought you would get in your primary relationship. And so you have to be able to talk about that. Otherwise, it’s going to make you feel unsafe or threatened if that those things are given to somebody else. [00:14:44] Um, and then it’s just gonna cause you to be resentful and then act like you don’t deserve to be in the relationship. So there’s like a whole nother level she went under and I was like, Wow, I didn’t expect that. [00:14:55] Quinn: Therapy. It’s good. [00:14:58] Bryan: You know? [00:14:59] Brett: I, [00:15:00] I [00:15:00] Bryan: my mental health is iffy. Brett. It’s iffy right now. [00:15:04] Brett: I chose my therapist first and foremost based on someone who wasn’t faith based. Uh, which in the town where I live, like, uh, I would guess about half of the therapists available here are faith based. And I needed someone who could recognize what kind of trauma, fundamentalist upbringing and flicks on, on, especially young queer people, but just kids in general. [00:15:33] Like you convince a kid if they’re going to hell and like, and if they make the wrong choices, they’ll burn for eternity. You will fuck a kid up. And um, so that was my first and and foremost, uh, consideration. I. Think he, he’s great with bipolar. Like he has, he has impressed the hell out of me with understanding my particular [00:16:00] brand of bipolar, which I have come to realize is psychia. [00:16:04] Um, but, uh, like he’s super well versed in that I do not, when I, when I talk to him about finding like, coping strategies for adhd, he doesn’t seem to have, um, any insightful answers beyond what, you know, I get from YouTube anyway. Um, but, but he’s been great for bipolar, he’s been great for working through some religious trauma and, uh, figuring out how to talk to my parents without freaking out. [00:16:36] Um, so any, I have an appointment with him. I canceled an appointment with him today because I had to pick my dad up from surgery. Uh, Um, but he was able to reschedule with me at like 4:30 PM my time, which is way later than I would usually wanna do anything that required emotional, uh, [00:17:00] resilience at all. [00:17:01] Um, so we’ll see how that goes. But my, my quick check in is I am, um, um, I’m depressed. Uh, I’m, I’m functioning fine. I’m getting my work done. I’m able to show up for everything, but I’m definitely having, uh, thoughts like the, one of the signs when I get depressed is I start analyzing my relationship and seeing problems where there aren’t problems and, and, uh, and I have to be very careful not to freak out on my girlfriend. [00:17:39] Uh, because I see some failing in our relationship or in her or in myself, that if I step back and look at like long term patterns is not a real thing, uh, but in the moment it seems very real and I can blow shit up. Uh, because this right now seems like a real [00:18:00] problem. And, and, and it always has been in my mind. [00:18:03] Um, and she is very adept at talking me down and pointing out, Well, you seem a little depressed right now. Could that, could that have any effect on what you’re feeling about this? And she’s, she’s a fucking pro at dealing with my, my moods. I greatly appreciate her. Um, but that’s, that’s my check in. I’ll turn it over to, uh, to Brian for a quick check in. [00:18:31] Bryan: Yeah, my quick check in. Is again, like I’m a little, anxious about the like, recurrent arguments that my boyfriend and I have been having and, and trying to figure out how to, like I’m in this space right now where I’m not sure where, when like things are, um, an overreaction versus like [00:19:00] an honest thing that I should communicate, you know, because, uh, the dynamic is that. He’s, it’s just that I take up so much space in a room and he naturally is an, is an accommodator so if I’m not, if I’m not careful, I will take up all of the space and he will be like, I don’t feel like I have any space to be me. And everything becomes about you. And yeah. And I think I realize, I think to some degree like that’s an defense mechanism for me where I just am so used to other people not thinking about me, that it’s kind of hard to believe that here’s this person who, like, before they bring something up to me, they’ve already thought about how it might impact me. [00:19:49] Brett: Yeah. [00:19:50] Bryan: so I don’t have to do that work and like effectively take the focus away from them. I can just let them have their focus and like, [00:20:00] They suggested like asking questions instead of making statements, and I think that’s a thing I wanna learn about doing more, which is like, I’m interested in what you said. [00:20:08] Can you tell me more? Instead of, So you, so what you’re really saying is this the difference between [00:20:14] Brett: Oh [00:20:14] Quinn: Yeah, that’s [00:20:15] Brett: need to learn that I, I speak in hypotheticals. Um, I will, I will state my hypothesis with the intention that whoever hears it will say, Well, actually no, or Here’s what’s wrong with that. But I state it as, as a statement. And for people like, especially my girlfriend, like she will initially take that as I’ve made up my mind, here’s how it is. [00:20:42] And, and not as me proposing a hypothesis, but as me like saying, this is my mind and it can’t be changed. And I have worked hard to begin. And sometimes I will say the hypothesis, but then I will immediately follow it with a question like, So what do you think about that? And like, [00:21:00] make it open for discussion. [00:21:02] But that’s definitely, that’s a failing that I have long. [00:21:07] Quinn: Yeah, I think that’s, I’m like a notorious poke hole. In thing. Like I see things and I like find like little holes and I’m like, poke, poke, poke. And I’m like, One, I think this is, this is definitely a bit of autism. Like one, it’s okay if someone’s a little bit wrong. Let’s let people have fun. And two, not everything needs to be a problem. [00:21:27] And just like, I think there’s like also, I saw that one thing with the like adhd, you like communicate to people by telling stories about yourself and you’re like, I feel you. Cuz one time this thing happened to me and they’re like, Can’t we just talk about me? And I’m like, Oh, I am trying to talk about you. [00:21:42] I’m just telling you that I get it from a me story. And they’re like, No, then you’re talking about yourself. And I’m like, Okay. And yeah, like just [00:21:51] Brett: our way of connecting. That’s our way of saying that. I, I understand what you’re saying. Here’s something similar that’s happened to me. We don’t need to talk [00:22:00] about it. I’m just letting you know, like there’s this, I, I feel a connection. This is how I’m relating to what you’re saying. And that is for that, that often comes across as, Oh yeah, let’s make this all about. [00:22:13] Bryan: Well, and I think the thing I would say, and then I’ll pass it to you, Quinn, for a good check in, is that what happens is they are so used to, many people are used to, um, they’re not used to the focus changing. Like they’re not used to somebody bringing that up in that way. But number two, what they’ve been taught to do is when somebody says, Ah, yeah, this thing happened to me in this similar way, is that they’ve been taught to say, Oh, tell me more about that. [00:22:40] Right? So they feel the pressure internally to do the socially appropriate thing in that situation, which is then make it about us. And so there is this thing where it’s. We’re all just sort of operating and trying to like survive in the social like scripts that [00:23:00] we exist in. And so I try to remember that just as much as I’m trying to communicate with them, they’re trying to communicate with me. [00:23:08] And it may be that like, like I need to be like, Oh man, you know, I can imagine that that would be a difficult experience, that those words coming out of my mouth are actually in my head. I went through that once and it was a difficult experience. [00:23:27] Quinn: Yeah. [00:23:28] Brett: Yeah, [00:23:28] Bryan: or say one time this I, I had a similar experience and I just want to share that with you so that you know that I’m empathizing with you. [00:23:40] You know? Now let’s talk about you, you know, and do some of those [00:23:44] Brett: say the, you say the words like you say out loud. What was, Yeah. [00:23:49] Quinn: Yeah. I think like the, like, Yeah. What the talk about you’re, you’re like, Okay, I did the thing I, like, sometimes you’re like, I can’t stop my brain from being like, Here’s this one thing that happened to me related to that thing. Whoa. And then I’m like, [00:24:00] um, then I was like, Then you have to be like, Okay, like let’s move back to you. [00:24:06] Or like, you know, how did that, And you’re like, say the word and stop being like, Bring it all towards yourself. Cuz I feel like it’s super easy to like do that and then Yeah, like back and forth social script and you’re like, Oh whoops. I was speaking to someone that doesn’t do this. Cause it is always really funny when you’re speaking to someone else that is adhd and you back and forth tell stories about yourself. [00:24:28] Brett: yeah, and you can do that for hours. [00:24:30] Quinn: Yeah. Forever. [00:24:31] Brett: just riff off each other for hours. [00:24:33] Quinn: Yeah. [00:24:33] Brett: what sucks is when, when you do it to somebody who. Says, that’s not the exact same thing that I’m talking about. They don’t look at it as like, Okay, so you had a similar experience and, and you reacted in a similar way to me, and that’s how you’re relating to me. [00:24:51] They look at it as like, Yeah, that’s not what happened to me, and you are clearly wrong because it’s not the exact same [00:25:00] situation, and then they’re offended that you tried to relate in that way, and that always gets me into trouble. [00:25:07] Quinn: That is wild. [00:25:09] Bryan: Yeah, I mean that’s what, that’s what happened yesterday is like I said, a thing that offended my boyfriend because I thought I was saying a thing that was being helpful, and that’s the hardest thing to like wrap your feelings around and be like, Wow, I just really messed up there. Like what I thought I was communicating isn’t what you received. [00:25:28] And the only thing that we can do, and this is a hard thing for me, is like all I can do is control my communication. I can’t control the way that they’re going to respond, nor is it helpful for me to tell them to respond differently. [00:25:41] Quinn: Feelings are true even if you’re like, But no, that’s not what I meant. The person still felt that thing and that was still true. You know? [00:25:48] Brett: Are you able to have this conversation though, and explain that the way you, what you meant wasn’t the way it was received and, and to talk it through [00:25:59] Bryan: Yes, [00:26:00] but, and here’s the, but I want to talk it through until he’s not upset anymore. And he has told me very clearly any conversation that goes longer than 10 minutes, he is being accommodating because he is an extreme introvert, [00:26:23] Brett: Yep. [00:26:23] Bryan: And it’s very much like this is the thing that we’re doing. And like yesterday, I literally canceled attending a meeting to keep talking to him because I thought that was the right thing to do. [00:26:36] But also because like the one time he tried to end the conversation, he was still upset and I was like, I can’t have you still upset at me. So I have to keep the conversation going instead of, I’m so bad. I’m so bad at feeling bad, and like being comfortable, feeling bad for a little bit and then letting it. [00:26:55] Brett: Yeah. I have trouble with that too. I learned from my ex-wife that, [00:27:00] um, sometimes. And this is not why she’s my ex-wife, but like sometimes in a, in an argument, uh, space, like some time for the other person to collect their thoughts instead of constant, constantly trying to, uh, speak your mind is not a way to collect your thoughts for introverts. [00:27:23] Like introverts need time alone. To come to their own conclusions before they can effectively communicate them, to try to communicate externally in the moment, leads to literally thinking out loud and some of your thoughts might be wrong, and then you misspeak and then you’re in trouble. So I learned to give her space to think, and in the process realized that’s really good for me too. [00:27:49] Um, and yeah, there are times where I’ll, I’ll go down to my little den, uh, watch a TV show and I’ll be angry about whatever’s happening, but just [00:28:00] kinda put it on pause for a little while. And it’s been a really good coping mechanism because, and I’m the same, like I have a 10 minute limit too. I can only discuss a matter of the heart, something that offended me, something that upset us. [00:28:15] I got about, I got about 10 minutes, and then, and then I need, I need it to either be over resolved or I need a break. I get that. [00:28:25] Quinn: I’m there was a, Life where I thought I was, uh, an introvert, and I’m the least introvert, I think out loud. I think on my feet, I move forward. Um, and just kind of like, yeah, I totally could see how I’m like, Please, people who, like, you’ve talked enough, it’s fine. We, we can move on. And I’m like, No. Like, this is how I think, you know? [00:28:44] Um, and I think, yeah, the like, feeling bad, I’ll, I’ll pull this into my mental health check-in, but like, feeling okay about feeling bad is something that I’ve been really working on. Like, I think, like, I’m like, I feel like one thing that I always wanna do is solve my own brain problems. You’re like, you’re feeling bad and you’re like, [00:29:00] Why do I feel this bad? [00:29:01] Let’s dive deep into the psyche to solve this problem. And the answer is, one, you’re gonna feel worse. Two, you’re not solving this problem right now. It’s not gonna happen. You can’t solve the years of brain problems that you have. It’s. You can just move on. Um, and like it’s okay to feel bad right now. We can figure out that. [00:29:20] And you know, like giving yourself the grace that you like, wanna give others about feeling bad. I feel like something that I’ve been working on and I feel like to mental health checkin, um, I’ve been talking about this with some people. I’ve been having like a bad executive function week. I feel like instead of doing anything, I’ve been staring at walls being like I should start something and then I start nothing and I stare at a wall and then I pick something up and then I just like do something that I shouldn’t be doing for like 40 minutes. [00:29:45] I don’t know. I think the funniest thing, I was like this today I’m gonna make chicken soup and while it’s going I’m gonna clean my apartment cuz it’s sitting in the oven for a while. That’s so much time. But no, there’s no such thing as passive time. I’m thinking about the chicken. A hundred percent of [00:30:00] the time I’m sitting on the couch being like, I could be cleaning, but I must think about the chicken soup being made. [00:30:05] There’s no, there’s no passive cooking time, There’s no doing this other thing. So instead I just sat down and stayed at the oven for like an hour and a half. I’m like, this is what I’m doing right now. I’m watching the oven. Um, [00:30:19] Bryan: can I give you, can I give you a fun tip for that? That has worked for [00:30:22] Quinn: yeah, I love fun tips. [00:30:25] Bryan: Set a timer, even like a five minute timer and say, I know the chicken soup is going to take 90 minutes. I’m going to take five of those minutes with this timer and the, the timer is your motivated factor to do something for just five minutes. [00:30:40] Cuz part of what’s happening is, I think, is that, you know, that you could get time blindness and it could be four hours later. And so you’re worried that you’re going to miss the chicken soup. And so if you say, I’m going to take little chunks of time and give myself a timer in there, then like, it’s not a whole 90 minutes you [00:31:00] have to fill, which you’re like, Oh fuck, I’m gonna miss the soup, [00:31:03] Quinn: That’s, that’s very fair. I feel like, yeah, there’s like a love of like, I’ve been talking about this cuz I think like there’s a lot of people that I feel like have this autism, ADHD combo and I think I haven’t, I have an official autism diagnosis and what that gives me is knowledge, but that’s it. It’s free, you know, you get it and it’s free. [00:31:23] You can’t really do anything about it except get knowledge and work it through. But people with adhd, it’s not free, but you get some sort of like attempted medication, you know? And so like it’s a more important diagnosis to some people cuz there’s a attempt other than just thinking about your brain a lot to do something about it, you know. [00:31:44] Brett: Yeah. [00:31:44] Quinn: I, that’s why like, I don’t know, I was talking to my friend who is like an official ADHD diagnosis, but thinks that like they have autism and they’re like, Oh, but I’m not totally sure. And I’m like, You can just decide you have autism and move with that fact and see what happens. You know, [00:32:00] we can move along with that fact cuz it’s just like a, I like to joke that like, there’s a lot of things in your life. [00:32:05] Autism, I think is one of them, is like, you get to replay the movie of your life, but you know, the, you know, the, you know, the twist ending. You’re like, Oh, this makes so much sense. This is why everything was being weird. Um [00:32:18] Brett: is, this has been a point of contention on this podcast before because Christina is very anti self diagnosis. Um, but I have learned from the autism community that it’s a real, it’s a privilege to be able to get a diagnosis, to have the, uh, funds and resources available to get an official autism diagnosis. [00:32:43] And there is so much information out there that it is possible. To say, Yes, this applies to me. This explains, this is a theory that explains my natural order in such a way that I can confidently [00:33:00] say I am autistic. And then, and then fucking roll with that and, and learn what you need to learn. [00:33:07] Quinn: Like I think the reality is like having an official autism diagnosis versus being like, this is what I think feels like, does, like, you know, having an official autism and gives you a piece of paper that confirms you something, that belief and there’s some value to that, but like there’s no like, and now here’s what we move forward doing. [00:33:26] That, that is like only possible because of the diagnosis. that’s why like, I think like self-diagnosis for some things is like, you know, I understand why people have some like troubles with it or whatever. Um, but I mean, I’m a big self-determination like type of person. I think like it comes like I think a little bit with the I’m trans, I think like comes with the like, you know, trans and like label in a ways, like you’re putting that self-determination to do something and I don’t need like some person to be like, Correct check mark. [00:33:56] You know? Cause like there’s just layers of blockers [00:34:00] that we’ve put on top of that. And there’s a reality of like, I mean with being trans different cuz it’s like, again, like it’s one of those, like once you get official label you can asterisk go search up, uh, informed consent, but. Like once you get an official label, there’s things that you can do to move forward with it that you didn’t get access to before. [00:34:20] But there’s so many things in this world that like if it feels right with you and you can move forward, like you don’t, like getting an official wording doesn’t give you like direct access to something other than like the ability to think about that. And you don’t need some doctor to tell you that in my brain. [00:34:34] You can start to look at your life in that way and then you can just be wrong. It’s fine. Like whatever. [00:34:41] Bryan: Yeah. One of the things that I think, so I, uh, will be the unofficial Christina, uh, whisperer here is that I think Christina is Christina is a, is a person who often sees [00:35:00] the, uh, the consequences of a situation before she sees the opportunities in a situation. [00:35:07] Quinn: A whole poker as one might say, [00:35:09] Bryan: Yeah. And so she, yeah. And so she’s like, Wow. [00:35:12] What happens is these things, like these people, these people do this thing and it causes this effect. And, [00:35:20] Brett: like people who, when everyone’s like, Oh yeah, I’m, I’m a little adhd, or obviously I’m adhd, and, and ADHD is, is more of an area where I do think you need an official diagnosis because that’s how you get treatment. That’s how, that’s how you understand it. Autism is a different beast [00:35:38] Bryan: And, and right. As I’m reading, one of the things that I read recently on a Twitter, and I’ll have to find the treat, but somebody said, Autism is a neurotype not an illness. And the concept here is that neurotypes are simply different. The idea is that, uh, there’s many [00:36:00] different natural forms of very human wiring in the brain. [00:36:03] That’s where neurodiversity comes from. And so a neurotype is like the, like neurotypicals are like the so-called normal neurotype and is, you know, so everybody, everybody has a neurotype. So neurodiversity in this format is like, we’re all neurotypes. We’re all neurodiverse. It’s just which neurotype do we have? [00:36:28] And what level of occurrence is that? So the, the autistic neurotype, the adhd neurotype, right? Like these are just different ways. Our brains are wired and think in the world. And so instead of saying you need an autism diagnosis, recognizing that you have an autistic neurotype means that you can. Think about what that means compared to how other people with a different neurotype operate. [00:36:58] And so you can work to figure out your [00:37:00] communication differences, and I think that’s really interesting. [00:37:03] Quinn: Yeah, like I, I think like I, I understand the like kind of consequence cuz like, I think with the ADHD thing, like, you know, it’s probably pretty dangerous to try to just like self-medicate cuz you’re like, I think I might have ADHD if you actually like don’t, and you’ve read some stuff and like, I think like there’s like a level of like that. [00:37:21] But I think like, [00:37:22] Brett: there’s no way to legally self-medicate for [00:37:24] Quinn: Exactly right. Like there’s no way to legally, you know, other than maybe drinking 30 billion monster energies a day or whatever like that, you know? Um, but I think there’s like a level of just like the way that you can change your modes of thinking, um, and kind of move into that I think is something that I think a lot about the like general autism thing, cuz it’s like a yeah, I was joking. [00:37:46] Like, you know, it’s, it’s your, it’s, you get it for free, you know, if you have it, congratulations, you’re not paying for anything to help you with it. You might pay paying for therapy, but you’re just, it’s just like a think thought process in a way. And like ways of [00:38:00] changing your way of thinking of interacting with things. [00:38:02] So [00:38:03] Brett: Yeah. So we, we, we need to, we need to end the mental health corner at some point, but I feel like Quinn, you haven’t really gotten an opportunity to offer your quick mental health [00:38:15] Quinn: Oh yeah. My, my mental health check-in is just that I’m mostly, actually surprisingly fine. Uh, other than my inability to focus on anything, My brain is deeply broken and staring at walls. But other than that, given the fact that it’s becoming dark at four o’clock, now it’s five o’clock. But, um, I’m doing pretty good because I definitely get to like, you know, it’s dark at four o’clock. [00:38:36] What am I gonna do? I’m stuck in my tiny apartment forever life. But I’ve had like limited, like, external conflicts that are causing bad brain vibes. Um, I’ve just had, I should be doing something, but instead I’m gonna stare at the wall, which is unfortunate. But, you know, we’re working through it. We’re moving through it. [00:38:55] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, I, I know exactly how that goes. Uh, you [00:39:00] combine bipolar depression with adhd and you spend a lot of time staring at walls. It’s very frustrating. Um, okay, so I’m gonna take a quick sponsor break. 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Professional monitoring services cost under a dollar a day. Less than half the price of ADTs traditional, professionally installed system. With the top rated, Simply Safe App, stay in complete control of your system. [00:40:29] Anytime, anywhere, arm or dis arm or disarm, Unlock for a guest, access your cameras or adjust system settings. Don’t miss your chance for a massive savings on our favorite security system. Get 50% off of any new system@simplysafe.com slash Overtired today. This is their biggest discount of the year. [00:40:52] That’s s i m ps a e.com/ Overtired. There’s no [00:41:00] safe, like simply safe. Um, do, do you guys have the Quip document loaded up? [00:41:07] Bryan: Yeah. [00:41:09] Brett: Uh, Brian, I would love it if you would do the promo, the promo swap for twit. [00:41:15] Bryan: Yeah. Can you hear me now? Yeah, you can hear [00:41:18] Brett: Yes, Absolut. [00:41:20] Bryan: do it now? [00:41:21] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Tell us, tell us about, uh, uh, another favorite podcast of ours. [00:41:27] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. Um, it’s time to tell you about one of our favorite podcasts, one of mine. Uh, when we are not talking here about mental health, I gotta tell you, we’re usually talking about tech and when it comes to covering all things tech, Boy do we have a podcast for you. So every week, this week in Tech gives you a no holds bar. [00:41:48] Deep dive into how big tech influences our culture and our lives. Join twit TV’s, Leo Laport. Everybody loves Leo and are ever-changing [00:42:00] panel of journalists and experts every Sunday as they break down and often disagree on the latest in tech. Subscribe to this week in tech, wherever you get your podcasts. [00:42:12] Brett: That was an excellent breed. We should bring you on just to do sponsor reads, [00:42:17] Bryan: bro. Totally. Happy to do so. It’s one of my favorite things actually. [00:42:23] Brett: So, I don’t know, uh, what y’all’s schedule is. Uh, we have about 15 minutes left in our hour. Uh, we could switch straight to gratitude, but honestly, uh, like if you guys have anything, any pop culture shit you wanna get into, I’m here for it. [00:42:42] Quinn: I love and, or that’s really my, my pop culture thing. [00:42:45] Bryan: Yo, I, [00:42:46] Quinn: Yeah. Have you not watched it? [00:42:49] Brett: I have not yet. [00:42:50] Quinn: probably the best Star Wars content made in an extremely long time. Like, [00:42:56] Bryan: I think ever, I think ever. [00:42:58] Quinn: yeah, I think it’s [00:43:00] the thing that I think is so important about it to me that I think is that it’s, it’s ground level. It’s not focused on some person with the last name Skywalker. [00:43:09] Um, it’s sharp, like politically. It’s, it’s politically sharp and like, makes really interesting points and um, I think, I think unlike the Mandalorian and like those other shows, which I like, don’t get me wrong, I think it, I also fairly liked, but this is like recorded not on a weird, unreal engine wall. And so everything feels like they’re like in a place. [00:43:34] I feel like there’s a lot. A lot of like movies that I like to joke back in the day were really good because LY just got a bunch of weird dudes in a small room and then just, they were kind of weird. I think the thing is like, you know, the thing is one of those and predators like a bunch of weird people in a small space and then just like being forced to like on the like onset do things, I think really extends it. [00:43:58] And I feel and or feels like [00:44:00] that to me, unlike a lot of the Mandalorian stuff and a lot of the other star stuff, whereas focused on like this big over narrative and it was a lot of like, I feel like a lot of, Oh, I know that. Ooh. Or like, you know, it really just exists for you to brain teel and or is like pointed and good. [00:44:17] Brett: Here you said it was politically sharp and, and the reason I’ve always preferred Star Trek to Star Wars is because they approach social issues, um, through a lens. They abstract a social issue like involving an alien race or, or, or some kind of sci-fi phenomenon in a way that addresses a social issue that we all face, but in an abstract way that we can all understand differently. [00:44:47] And Star Wars. In general is more about like, uh, cowboy western plot lines and doesn’t really address social issues. So are you saying [00:45:00] that and or steps out of that kind of cowboy, western, um, uh, genre enough to actually address social issues? [00:45:10] Quinn: Yes. I think it’s, I think it’s important. There’s not like this like big overarching Kira’s journey with. Sabers and space Wizards. It’s like about the like, it’s like, it’s about, um, so it’s, it’s based off, um, and or something from Rogue One, which I think was one of the like more like politically a little sharp movies. [00:45:33] And I think like it’s really zooming in on a low level of like, individual citizens and like, it, like doesn’t, isn’t talking about like white boys with space lazos and it’s like talking about like the politics of the world. Um, the NA five episode, which is like this prison episode, I think is like one of the best examples of that. [00:45:56] Like, they like look at what, like prison [00:46:00] and labor and like this empire is kind of talking about and how that, how that is displayed and how like all these, how like Empire interacts with like, you know, labor force [00:46:12] Brett: That’s fascinating. Yeah. I’m gonna get into that. That sounds absolutely worth watching. [00:46:17] Bryan: I have, I’ll give a culture shoutout too. I have, I’ll give two shoutouts. One is a new Netflix show, which is the bastard son and the devil himself. [00:46:31] Brett: Okay. [00:46:32] Bryan: It’s a brand new show. It’s based on a series of books. It is about basically a kid who’s like, there’s these two types of witches and he’s a blood witch. [00:46:47] Blood witches are apparently bad, but like it gets into, uh, a lot of like, politics and like genocide, extermination, those sort of [00:47:00] concepts again, done in that really smart way of abstracting out. And it’s a small story, right? It is a small story about a small set of people and the impact that they have on the world unintentionally, but not even really about that. [00:47:11] It’s just like about this community. And season one was just like a wild, fun, intense ride. It’s like difficult and funny and sharp and I just really loved it. And I hope Netflix doesn’t cancel it after two seasons. Like they canceled everything else. It’s so frustrating. [00:47:32] Quinn: I’m gonna make a quick back to and or plug, if you like, hearing, like watch along podcasts with people that are smart, talking about it. I’ve been listening to this podcast called A More Civilized, More Civilized Age. It’s a podcast. Um, they’re actually going through all the, uh, that, what’s the Star Wars animated, The Star Wars animated TV show. [00:47:51] Clone Wars, but they’re like, And ORs too good. We need to talk about it now. And so every week they’ve gone and like, talked about and or, and like the people on it are just [00:48:00] really smart. Um, and, uh, I think like it’s a really good, like, listen, uh, if you’re like into one of those, like watch along as you watch a thing, hear other people’s thoughts about it. [00:48:12] Check out like even just the, and or episodes of a more civilized age as you watch it, is. [00:48:17] Bryan: Yeah, I just sort of flipped, uh, a thing. The other suggestion that I have, uh, is a, so I was having a conversation with my boyfriend about what type of TV he likes to watch, and we were talking about how he likes to like watch Happy TV because it’s really intentional for him to sort of step away from his emotions. [00:48:33] And he does this, He talks about, It’s great. You, you all will understand this. He like runs it at a background process of something 19 or something. Um, like the, the, the, the lowest priority process that you can run like on a Linux machine. Yeah. Um, he, I mean he’s a by trader, rocket scientist, software developer, cfd, uh, and now works in software development and.[00:49:00] [00:49:00] So he likes happy shows because they don’t remind him of all of the like sadness or frustration that he’s got that he’s putting into boxes and like pulling out slowly to work on in the background like we talked about. So, and now I think I use sad shows to process my trauma, right? Yep. Like watching them helps me move through that cuz I can, cuz I struggle to access it. [00:49:23] He has no problem accessing it. But what he talked about is, um, cause we were talking about like if we watch happy shows together, we get more of that sort of fun romantic, giggly opportunity that you don’t get in hard shows. And so two things, it’s why he loves the anime. And so I’m always a big fan of my hero academia, um, and, um, assassination classroom. [00:49:49] Uh, but then the other thing is Stephen Universe. [00:49:52] Quinn: Universe. Great. [00:49:54] Bryan: Stephen Universe, one of the greatest animated shows ever, I think. [00:49:57] Quinn: Yeah, you, you, you might get some [00:50:00] hate from that. Some people are mad about, about Stephen Universe, but don’t, It’s fine. Don’t worry. [00:50:06] Bryan: Brett, have you ever seen Stephen Universe? [00:50:08] Brett: no. [00:50:10] Bryan: Oh yeah. You would love it. [00:50:13] Brett: So I gotta ask, neither of my usual cohosts have ever seen either of these shows. Have you guys seen Heart Stopper or Heartbreak High? [00:50:23] Quinn: I’ve seen Heart Stopper. I have on my bookshelf up there, the graphic novels. I’ve [00:50:28] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s, [00:50:30] Quinn: Um, I have a bunch of Alice Oman stuff I really like, a lot of, just like her stuff. I think it’s all really good. Um, I’ve watched three episodes of Heartbreak High. I think it’s very interesting. [00:50:40] It’s weird. [00:50:40] Brett: So, like, the beauty, the thing that really hooked me about Heartbreak High is the, uh, relationship between Quinny an autistic girl, and I think Darren, who is a, uh, non-binary like [00:51:00] queer character who just like understands Quinny in a way that. It’s just a very heartwarming relationship. He understands her autism in a way that nobody else does, and the two of them together make a pretty unstoppable pair. [00:51:18] I, I love that show. It was so fun. [00:51:21] Quinn: I’ve heard, Yeah, I heard good things about it, so I started it. But there’s too many TV shows, but I’ll say I love Heart Stopper. One of my favorite things about Heart Stopper is I think like within a lot of queer media, even like technically happy queer media, people can’t just like be gay and not be punished. [00:51:40] Like you expect that someone that there’s a gay kiss and then immediately something bad happens, [00:51:46] Brett: Mm-hmm. [00:51:47] Quinn: this is just, they’re happy, you know, They’re just [00:51:50] Brett: Yeah. That is, It’s such a, like, you’re all, like for me, there was this tension watching it because every time there was progress [00:52:00] in the storyline, I was waiting for that hammer to fall. I was waiting for the repercussion of, of being gay or of finding out your bi like what are the, the consequences? And it never happens. [00:52:12] And it’s just like, it’s, it’s a heartwarming show. It, it’s, it’s super easy. [00:52:17] Bryan: Yeah, I love Heart Stopper. I think the one thing, if you are a queer person who grew up like in the nineties and the eighties, uh, Heart Stopper for me was a wonderful show and it like activated all of my teenage trauma and angst about the life I didn’t get to live. [00:52:39] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, see, I had the, I had the good fortune, like, like I’m pan and like I, I’ve always had attractions to same sex and other, and, uh, because I also had an attraction to women, I never had [00:53:00] to come out in high school. Like there was never any pressure I could satisfy my, my curiosities and everything with perfectly socially acceptable in the nineties, uh, ways of living. [00:53:14] Um, and I never had to deal with, Uh, the, the what most people, what most queer people deal with in, in high school years. Um, I did however, have, like most of my friends were queer in some way, and, and I saw, I saw brutality and like I empathized so deeply with my friends that went through that shit. And it is for me, cathartic to watch something like Heart Stopper where that shit just doesn’t happen where [00:53:47] Quinn: just be [00:53:48] Brett: everyone’s just, Okay. [00:53:49] Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:53] Bryan: Let’s be gay and happy and be fine friends. [00:53:56] Quinn: Call [00:53:56] Brett: a episode title [00:53:57] Quinn: the gay, you know? [00:53:59] Bryan: [00:54:00] absolutely. Yeah. Let’s be gay. [00:54:01] Brett: or Fall back to the Gay [00:54:03] Quinn: No, You know, gay, gay, gay is gay. Gay men happy. At some point it’s a call back. Now you can be gay [00:54:09] Bryan: gay is happy as gay. Yeah. Oh, you could be double [00:54:13] Quinn: double gay. Gay and happy. But yeah, [00:54:16] Bryan: So Brad, So Brad, should we hop into gratitude? [00:54:18] Brett: Yeah, we should. You wanna start Brian? [00:54:22] Bryan: Um, sure. Actually, yeah. That’s awesome. So I know that most people, um, have a love hate relationship with Hacker News because, uh, the people on Hacker News can be very, Yeah, they can be very not nice and, um, But I’m not a developer like day by day, so I don’t, like, I didn’t come into Hacker News until like this year, really. [00:54:51] So I find Hacker News a really interesting site to look at for the links, not the comments, just the links. [00:55:00] And the app that I love for that is called Octa. Octa, O c t A L. Um, I’m gonna try and find out really quickly, um, who the app developer is. Um, but it’s just like a really clean, um, App and I don’t like using, If I can use a, a real app and not a web app, it makes me really happy. [00:55:23] Um, Daniel Woo Octo for Hacker News Made by Daniel Woo. Um, yeah, it’s just really, really great. And even, you know, it’s clean. It lets you search. It’s got deep link support. You can c as your newsfeed. Uh, it’s thinkable. Um, it’s ad free. No ads, no subscriptions, and no tracking. A shout out to our good friend Marco Armand. [00:55:47] Um, who loves that. But yeah, I just really love how Cleveland simple it is. And it lets me, like in the evening before I go to bed, be like, what weird things do people discover on the internet today? And like, [00:56:00] an easier, like, it’s easier than Reddit, which feels so much bigger [00:56:03] Quinn: Reddit’s scary. [00:56:05] Bryan: Yeah. [00:56:06] Brett: Well, and honestly, if we’re talking about comments, red is also scarier in that regard. Um, Hacker News, honestly, like aside from Daring Fireball, uh, if I’ve ever had something blow up on the internet, it’s been because of Hacker News. I have, uh, I have a love for the amount of hack of traffic that Hacker News can send to a project. [00:56:29] Uh, they have a very engaged readership of people that will follow his, but any link. [00:56:37] Bryan: That’s, Yeah. That’s awesome. And also this is like, it’s really cool. It looks like it’s actually an open source client too. Um, because the source code is on GitHub. [00:56:48] Brett: Oh, nice. Can you drop a link to that in the show notes? [00:56:51] Bryan: sure can. And it also looks like I’m gonna, uh, Daniel also works currently at Disney streaming, doing their app, which makes sense [00:57:00] cuz it’s really good actually. [00:57:04] Quinn: That’s fun. [00:57:06] Brett: All right, Quinn, tell us about [00:57:10] Quinn: Okay. My app is called arc. It’s the newest browser on the block from the browser company, which is a bad name. Um, I think they’re specifically actually called the Browser Company of New York, which is even more preposterous, but it’s the best app, best browser I’ve ever used. It does a lot of really interesting things. [00:57:31] Um, you have like profiles, um, you have different. Stages almost in a way where like I have like a fun section and a dev section and you can pin, So first of all, I’m a tab, I smashed the command T button a million times and ARC is like, we know you’re gonna do this. We clear that every, every, every 10 hours you can change it. [00:57:56] But I’m like, it’s like we’ll clear up, but if you want things to never disappear, you [00:58:00] can pin tabs to each space and then if you like, it will like stay that and you can like go back to like the home if you like, stay on the same url. It does like a lot of really interesting things. Um, but one of my favorite things about it is easels. [00:58:13] It’s this like thing that they made kind of where it’s just like you have this like block of area that you can like attach screenshots to draw on. Um, but one really interesting thing is you can have live previews, two like screenshots in a website. So you can like select, you hit the like shift command two button I think it is. [00:58:33] And it brings up like a screenshot selector, but it’s based off like HTML elements and you can select a certain thing, then you can add it to an easel and have it live update and then you can share it with people. And so the one thing that makes me really interested about it is I’ve been really on this, like I want more people to have like little homes on the internet for themself, but I also want you to never have to program because I [00:59:00] don’t think everyone should need to know to program. [00:59:01] And this easel thing’s super interesting in a way cuz you can like have these curated, coll internet collages effectively that can be static. They can have some live content, they can have cute drawings, they can have text, and then you can share it with a link. And then my friend even added it in an eye frame on another. [00:59:22] Of his website because it’s just a link. I don’t know how it does it, it’s magical. You can, if you like lo if you’re hosting something on local host, you can add that to a live thing and that will live update. Even though you wrote, I don’t know how it does it, like it’s truly magical and weird. Um, but it’s just super interesting and I think like it’s bringing a lot more thought into a, the main thing, we use a browser to browse the internet and like it’s putting thought and um, like for example, these, these things called boosts, which are basically just like, [01:00:00] you wanna add some custom css, add a boost to this, write the css. [01:00:02] You wanna add some like really quick JavaScript, Add a boost, write that JavaScript and we’ll add it to the page. [01:00:09] Brett: that’s a big deal. Like, do you remember user scripts and like, uh, what was the, what was the plugin for? [01:00:16] Quinn: I use style [01:00:17] Brett: Firefox and Chrome style box. Yeah, there was one even before that. But like the idea of having the ability to inject custom scripts and custom css, uh, I’ve missed that. Uh, those, those old plugins have gone away. [01:00:32] That’s a big deal. Um, I, [01:00:34] Quinn: so good. [01:00:36] Brett: yeah, I signed up for arc, uh, the second I heard about it, and I just got my beta invite today, downloaded the browser and it gave me a server error when I tried to sign up. So I have not had a chance to play with this yet, but based on what I’ve read, I definitely want to. [01:00:56] Bryan: Yeah, I wasn’t sure either, but I’m also Arc like, here’s [01:01:00] my favorite thing about Arc, just to shout it out, is the fact that when you click on like a new link, it opens in this window called Little Arc, which is like a new window, but it’s like a floating window and then you can change, which works. It has workspaces and profiles and you can link them together and all in the same like browser window and you can just switch between them at the bottom. [01:01:23] And then the other thing that I love is that at the end of each day, it just automatically archives all of your tabs, but you can get back to them if you want to. [01:01:34] Quinn: you, Brian, you can pin tabs if you never want them to go away, If you hit the command [01:01:39] Bryan: Just by dragging it [01:01:40] Quinn: you can also, if you, you know how like everything has a Command K bar nowadays we’ve hit command K, it opens a thing, so [01:01:47] Brett: command shift [01:01:47] Quinn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Arc, if you hit Command T, it opens what they call the action bar, which is a Command K bar in my brain. [01:01:55] Um, and so you can, it’s, you can just like type a link, type a Google, but you can [01:02:00] do a bunch of other things in it as well. Um, and you just kind of like try typing. I actually learned some stuff because when I first signed up a person was like, Hey, do you wanna have a call about how to use this? And I’m like, I do, uh, tell me things. [01:02:11] Cause I had one question and the person’s like, You can just type. Like, I was like, how do I move things between workspaces? And they’re like, type, move to workspace, like the name of it. I’m like, What? You can just hit command T and write move. But um, and it’s also interesting cuz it’s like plugging in with a lot of really cool things. [01:02:29] Like if you use linear, you can like add a new linear like from, for the Command T bar if you use Notion, it like works super well with Notion if you’re part of hashtag Notion Nation or whatever. I don’t use notion that’s scary. But um, it’s like thinking about other cool web apps that people use and making it nicer to use them. [01:02:49] Brett: Nice. All right. I’m sold. I’m, I’m, I’m, I, I’m, I’m waiting just to get [01:02:57] Quinn: Join the Arc Killed. Arc killed people. You know [01:02:59] Brett: to get [01:03:00] in. [01:03:01] Bryan: I’m gonna ping them on. I’m gonna ping them on Twitter and be like, Brett Terpstra [01:03:07] Brett: I will, I will, I will submit my own bug request. Thank you. [01:03:11] Quinn: No, but they are you in their private Twitter, when you sign up, you get access to their private Twitter. You can tweet them at, [01:03:17] Brett: I did not get that. [01:03:18] Quinn: Yeah. Are you not part of the private Twitter? [01:03:21] Brett: apparently [01:03:21] Quinn: Cause there’s the browser company, but then there’s ARC Internet, which is a tweet and they’re like, it’s like a private one. You have to like tell them your thing and they’ll let you follow it. [01:03:30] Brett: All right. I’ll check it out. Um, do you guys use launchers at all? Uh, [01:03:38] Quinn: Raycast. [01:03:38] Brett: Quick, [01:03:39] Bryan: We’re Ray Cat, We’re ra, We’re Ray Cat’s kids. Yeah. [01:03:42] Quinn: I used to use. [01:03:42] Brett: right. So my. My pick for the week is Launch Bar, and that’s because I’m old. Um, I started Launch Bar predates Alfred, uh, everything except for Quicksilver, which is recently made, uh, a resurgence. [01:04:00] Um, but I got into Launch bar after Quicksilver kind of stop development and uh, I just kind of went whole hog on Launch Bar that said, um, Alfred is amazing, recast is outstanding. [01:04:17] Like I, this is not a like, um, a competition. I guess like I, I am, I’m sold on Launch Bar because I have like muscle memory that just, I can do anything I wanna do with a couple keystrokes in Launch Bar, whether I’m launching applications or sending a file to another application, or, or performing internet search or doing a quick calculation like launch bar’s. [01:04:42] Just second nature for me, um, this is true for anyone that uses any launcher. Uh, once you, once you have the muscle memory for something like, uh, Quicksilver or Raycast or Alfred, um, you, I just can’t imagine using my [01:05:00] computer without one of these apps. [01:05:02] Bryan: Yeah, [01:05:02] Quinn: When I switched to Raycast, I used the I, so I can’t spell at all, and Alfred has the spell command where you can type the word, spell, and butcher. Anything, as long as it’s kind of close, it will bring it to you and then you can enter and it’ll copy it to your Pace board. And Raycast has something similar. [01:05:22] If you use the word, if you type the word define, it will bring you into the same thing. It uses the same keyboard or like use the same like dictionary and you can butcher anything and it’ll bring it out to you. But I had to literally like add a shortcut so I could type the word spell, because I’m like, I’m so used to typing command space. [01:05:39] S p, enter, butcher a word, and get it spelled correctly. [01:05:44] Brett: See, I wrote a system service for Mac Os that uses Google’s spelling. Uh, basically like the Did you mean it scrapes the, did you mean results? So you can type [01:06:00] any word as butchered as you want to, and it will bring back Google’s suggestion for Did you mean? And, and you can do that in a text editor. [01:06:10] You can just type a word, highlight it, and then, and then run it through the did you mean? Um, and then I incorporated that into launch bar so I can in launch bar just type space and then a butchered word and it will come back with the correct spelling of that word. Um, I’m not positive that service even works anymore. [01:06:31] Google has made a lot of changes since I first developed that, but, but yeah, that is a very handy feature. I’m very good at spelling. I, I am an eighth grade spelling bee champion. Um, [01:06:45] Bryan: Same, same seventh and eighth grade, I almost made it to nationals. [01:06:50] Brett: that said, if you put me on the spot and asked me to spell unnecessary, I would fuck it up. [01:06:55] Quinn: I, I can’t spell any word where there’s like a s and a C and they’re kind [01:07:00] of close to each other. I’ll decision. I can’t spell that right. I’ll put the s and a c in the wrong place every single time without fail. [01:07:07] Brett: d E s C I S C I O n Decision [01:07:12] Quinn: D E C S I O N. That’s decision for me. [01:07:17] Brett: That’s close enough. Yeah. I mean, [01:07:19] Quinn: if you right click that there good people are not sure what you mean. If you’re like d e c, like, and you’re like, it’s like that’s not a word. And you’re like, I know it’s [01:07:28] Brett: you mean description, [01:07:30] Quinn: click it and they’re like, Description to blank. And I’m like, No, it’s decision. And they’re like, You’re not close. [01:07:35] And I’m like, Please, I need to be close. [01:07:39] Brett: All right, well, thank you two for joining me today on short notice to fill in for the usual Overtired suspects. [01:07:49] Quinn: Nice. [01:07:50] Bryan: Excellent. All right. Uh, thank you so much. I am going to, Yeah. I don’t know. What am I saying? Wow. Okay, great. [01:07:58] Brett: Are you closing up my [01:08:00] podcast for me? [01:08:01] Bryan: No, I mean, I was going to, but then I wasn’t. What do you want me to do, Brad? Do you wanna close out your podcast? [01:08:06] Brett: I guess, I guess I, I feel like it’s my responsibility. I feel like this is on me. Um, so I will just say Brian Quinn, get some sleep [01:08:16] Bryan: Get some sleep. [01:08:17] Quinn: Thank you. I’ll try. [01:08:20] Bryan: Hmm. [01:08:21] [01:09:00]

You kinda gotta talk about Kanye this week, right? Plus TV, music, and movies. Kind of a pop culture free for all, just for you. Sponsor Grab your exclusive NordVPN deal by going to nordvpn.com/overtired to get a huge discount off your NordVPN Plan AND 4 months for free! It’s completely risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee! Mental Chillness is a safe space that heals with the power of laughter. Join Khanh and Jules, people with mental illness that come together weekly with occasional guests to share their daily process of working towards mental chillness. Show Links Heartbreak High Heartstoppers Daredevil Raymond and Ray Metallica: Some Kind of Monster Dig! Murder in The Front Row Casey Neistat’s very good video When Kanye Spewed Hate, Some Blamed His Mental Illness. Experts Say That Has Nothing to Do With It. Marbles CodeRunner Decker and GitHub repo Headliner Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Ye Old Mental Imbalance [00:00:00] intro-outro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired No Longer your Taylor Swift podcast, but a, a, a mental health podcast about the shit that keeps us up at night. I’m Christina Warren. I’m joined as always by my friends, Jeff Severance, Gunzel and Brett Terpstra. Hey guys, how are you? [00:00:21] Jeff: Good [00:00:22] Brett: good. I’m not. I’m not tired. Are you tired? [00:00:25] Christina: Oh, I’m exhausted, Jeff. No, [00:00:28] Jeff: I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m undecided. [00:00:30] Brett: What’s going on with you, Christina? [00:00:32] Christina: well, it’s seven o’clock in the morning and I went to bed at four, so that’s, that’s my, yeah. [00:00:40] Brett: I stayed up late last night because I got obsessed with a show that I’ve already seen, but you guys ever watch Arrow? [00:00:47] Jeff: Mm-hmm. [00:00:48] Christina: Yes. Not in a long time. [00:00:51] Brett: Yeah, it’s like 10 years old. Uh, it, I, I started watching The Flash with Al and like immediately there’s a crossover episode where characters from the Arrow come on, and it gave me this like, longing for watching Arrow, and it’s just such a great, like, revenge story. And I got, and everyone in it is hot. [00:01:12] Like everyone from like the main characters to the detective, to the, like the CFO company, like everyone’s hot. It’s, it’s, it’s a visually appealing show with a great revenge plot, and it’s way better than the flash. [00:01:30] Jeff: Wow. I’ve never seen either of those. [00:01:33] Christina: Uh, they’re from, they’re, they’re from Greg Vigilante who, uh, created brothers and sisters and, um, Couple of other things, but, uh, but who I, of course, always will remember because he was like the showrunner and one of the lead writers on Dawson’s Creek. So, uh, he also created Everwood. So, yeah. So, uh, but, but you know, it makes sense that like the longest running, most enduring kind of franchise thing of the CW is, is from like a Dawson’s Creek alum. [00:01:58] Um, so, so Brett, Brett, appreciate that. You’re, you’re enjoying and rewatching stuff like from like the absolute deepest bowels of Teen tv, Vdo [00:02:10] Brett: thank you for that perspective. I never would’ve known that without Christina. [00:02:15] Jeff: I tend to, I tend to re-watch things when I don’t feel like there’s something new for me to get. Uh, [00:02:23] Brett: that’s where I’m at right now. All, all of the shows, all the new shows we’ve been watching have ended and we’re in that, like, lull between seasons and we’re like, we’re watching a lot of Big Bang Theory and, and, and older shows and just finding out like, wow, we just started Dickinson, which I didn’t, I had never heard of on Apple [00:02:44] Christina: Oh yeah, it’s pretty good. Yeah, with [00:02:46] Brett: it is, it is pretty good. [00:02:48] Then there’s like three seasons of it already completed, so it’s a new, it’s a new show to. [00:02:54] Christina: yeah. No, she’s amazing because I believe that she, somehow, her agents must be just phenomenal because she was able to get the Dickinson deal and do, um, Hawkeye on Disney Plus, and they were like two at one point, one of, I think it was season three and Hawkeye, they were like airing at the same time. [00:03:13] And usually how the streaming things work is, it’s not quite as restrictive as like network TV shows where they’re like, You are committed to our show and only our show. But usually they’re like, You can’t be on two competing services with brand new shows at the same time. So whoever reps her is doing a fucking great job. [00:03:33] Uh, [00:03:34] Brett: was good too. [00:03:35] Christina: Well, yes, Hawkeye was great. Well, you know what? She’s really good. Um, [00:03:39] Brett: Apparently [00:03:41] Christina: she’s very good. Well, she’s, she was nominated for an Oscar when she was 11, so, Yeah. Um, but I mean, [00:03:47] Brett: Same. [00:03:48] Jeff: It’s not a [00:03:49] Christina: but, uh, uh, what was the, the movie was with the Edge of 17 or something. Um, [00:03:55] Jeff: Ooh, [00:03:56] Christina: it’s kind of like a No, uh, I know that’s a CX song, but it might have just been called, uh, 17. [00:04:02] But she, she, uh, she’s really good. Um, but she, uh, yeah, but, but Dickinson, um, I haven’t watched the whole thing, but I remember [00:04:12] Brett: I’ve just gotten going. But immediately, immediately I was like, This is a good show. I, I can get into this. And, and I haven’t, I haven’t read Emily Dickinson. Like El my partner, uh, is a big fan. She, she’s a poet by trade and like she knows all about Emily Dickinson. So it’s, it’s fun for her in a different way. [00:04:32] For me, it’s an exploration of, of an author that I, I really don’t know anything about. So this is all, it’s all new to me and fun for her. So it’s a good show. [00:04:44] Christina: That’s cool. Oh, and, and I was right, it was, the film was called Edge of 17, [00:04:48] Jeff: Oh, sorry. [00:04:50] Christina: uh, which also the Stevie Nicks song. I’m sure that’s why it was named that. But anyway, but yeah, no, that’s fun. That, [00:04:55] Jeff: wonderful album, Belladonna. Ooh. [00:04:58] Brett: Are you a CB Nicks fan? [00:05:00] Jeff: Oh, I’m a Stevie Nicks fan. Yeah, I got her right back here in the record. Bile [00:05:03] Brett: I could. I could. I could use more cv Nicks like, I’ve enjoyed what I’ve heard, but I’ve never done a deep dive on Stevie Nicks [00:05:10] Christina: so, So it’s funny you say that. So it’s funny that you say that like you and L are watching like Dickinson or whatever, and I love that you’re both doing this, but then we went to the Stevie Nicks place cuz what I’m re-watching right now, and I don’t always do this when there’s not more stuff to watch, it’s just sometimes what you want as a comfort. [00:05:27] I’m doing something which is absolutely stupid. I’m rewatching Glee and, And Glee was an, Glee was an insane show when it aired. And in retrospect it’s even more insane. It’s like the fact that that Ryan Murphy, not only that, it was like a show that was on mainstream like network tv, but that it was like a phenomenon and it was like a billion dollar enterprise is just. [00:05:53] Hilarious to me. But I was watching the Rumors episode of that, like last night because they, they did an episode it, they did an episode entirely dedicated to the Rumors album and, uh, uh, so yeah, it’s all, it’s all full [00:06:08] Brett: g, did you guys ever give the new Heartbreak High a chance? I still recommend that it is still, it is a I and I went back after Christina told me that this was a reboot. Uh, we went back and I watched the first episode of the original Heartbreak High, and it, it didn’t, it didn’t hook me. Um, It was, it was weird. [00:06:30] Like I could maybe, like if we completely run out of shows, I could see giving it more of a chance. But the new heartbreak high, I think you guys would love esp. Like, it, it’s that high school glee feeling. It’s, it’s super, it’s super diverse. High school. It’s kind of the way you wish high school was. Uh, but, but still with all the teen drama that you would expect, except it’s kind of like Heartbreakers, um, or Heart Stoppers, I mean where like, it’s the story of, of, I mean, there are queer people in the story and you keep worrying that they’re gonna go through what queer people in your high school went through, but they don’t like, it all ends up being supportive and, and like heartwarming even though there’s that tension of like, when is, when is the, when is the hate crime gonna happen? [00:07:23] Um, and, and [00:07:25] Jeff: Yeah. The way, the way that queer characters were allowed into TV for the longest time was as victims. [00:07:31] Brett: Yeah. [00:07:33] Christina: Or, [00:07:33] Brett: It’s a new era. [00:07:35] Christina: or, or Matt F’s place who like was allowed to kind of hug a guy occasionally and like, they had a kiss that was actually even filmed that they cut. I mean, this was 1993, where instead it just kind of looks like they like give each other some sort of look and, and like Bill or somebody sees it happen because it’s like his friend and he gets kind of uncomfortable, but like, they cut the kiss so it’s, you know, the, the victim, you know, or, or something else. [00:08:01] Yeah. [00:08:01] Brett: Did you guys watch Heart Stoppers? [00:08:04] Jeff: Mm. [00:08:05] Brett: Cause holy shit, like I, I grew up, like, I was not out in any way in high school. I had gay friends, but like I was, I came from an evangelical family and worked very hard to repress any homosexual urges that I. [00:08:23] Jeff: Mm [00:08:24] Brett: um, going back and watching these high school dramas about queer kids coming of age, uh, is for me, and maybe, and maybe you guys wouldn’t have the same reaction, but for me it’s just extremely heartwarming. [00:08:38] Uh, heart stoppers just melted my heart. And, uh, if you have, if even if you’re, even if you don’t have, uh, a like vested interest in it, I think it’s such a great show. [00:08:51] Christina: I, Uh, yeah. All, all my friends in high school were gay, basically. Um, and, and then I, and then I famously for years, like I would always be like the, the girl who would, like, I’d go to like gay Halloween or gay New Year’s Eve or whatever, managed to find like the one like straight adjacent person there, um, to get caught in compromising positions in the closet with [00:09:11] Jeff: Because all the straight sexual behavior had to happen in the closet at the gay New Year’s [00:09:15] Christina: Yes, exactly. That was, that was exact, honestly. And, and, and that’s like, yes. [00:09:22] Jeff: So I’m rewatching, I’ve stopped rewatching it, but I started rewatching Daredevil, the Netflix Daredevil. Um, it’s a great show. Uh, and I don’t know if you remember the, the journalist Ben Urick in that series played by Vondi Curtis Hall. Um, he’s, he’s incredible. He comes in early in the series, um, older black actor, um, who when I saw him in Daredevil was like one of those things where you’re like, How the fuck have I not seen this guy in 45 amazing shows or movies? [00:09:55] Um, because the, his, his presence is so incredible. And I go to IMDB to figure out like, have I seen him before? And I realize that like the role he had the most kind of repeat appearances in was Cop Rock in 1990. Do you remember Cop Rock the Musical about being cops? Um, [00:10:17] Brett: A, a new, a new level of propaganda. [00:10:19] Jeff: But yeah, but what was amazing is that like two days after, uh, watching a much of these episodes and thinking like it is a, it is a crime that this man has not been all over, you know, every amazing thing ever. I start watching Ray and Raymond, which is a movie that just came out on Apple tv, Ethan Hawk and you and McGregor are like two half brothers that have to deal with their, have to deal with their dad’s death. [00:10:44] And man, Vondi Curtis Hall has a great role in it. And so I’m just really hoping that from this day forward, uh, for as long as he lives, he’s born in 1950, so he is getting up there, uh, that we can see Vondi Curtis Hall over and over again cuz he’s just phenomenal. Also opening scene of Ray and Raymond, or Raymond and Ray, I don’t know which one it is, is like these two, like barely connected half-brothers. [00:11:08] One knocks on the door of the other in the middle of the night and he comes to the door and he says, Dad died. And then the other brother goes by his own hand [00:11:16] Brett: Ha, [00:11:17] Jeff: Cause it’s like the most bizarre way of two brothers communicating. It’s like, what? No. So I just always assumed to be by his own hand. It’s a great, it is an amazing movie about what, um, how our parents can live in us, um, and how we can become totally captive to their chaos. [00:11:36] Um, and how that has to be released and can be released. It’s an amazing movie. So first of all, first pick here today. Pop culture pick Vondi Curtis Hall. Second pick, Let’s see. Is it Ray and Raymond? Or Raymond and Ray? [00:11:48] Brett: I, uh, I’m absolutely watching this. Maybe even [00:11:52] Jeff: Raymond and Ray. Yeah. This dad named his, these two half brothers. He gave them the same name. [00:11:57] He named them both Raymond And it’s beautiful. It’s, it’s absurd and beautiful, so I highly recommend it. Anyway, I feel like we’re at the end of the podcast. [00:12:09] Brett: Yep. This is time to wrap it. Should we, should we do a sponsor break before we do the mental health corner? [00:12:17] Christina: Yeah, let’s go ahead and do that. [00:12:18] Jeff: Sure. [00:12:19] Brett: Uh uh, Jeff, I feel like a lead in to the mental health corner. Might be a, a promo swap with a, another podcast about mental health. [00:12:29] Jeff: Well, let me just go dig in here in my pocket and see if I have a promo swap to [00:12:32] Brett: what you got. Podcast Swap: Mental Chillness [00:12:33] Jeff: Oh, here’s one. Um, so the Mental Chillness podcast, if you’re looking for more mental health podcasts, mental Chillness is a safe space that heals with the power of laughter. It’s led by Con and Jules to people with mental illness that come together weekly with occasional guests to share their daily process of working towards mental chillness. [00:12:54] You see what they did, Chillness coming from childhood environments that weren’t open about mental wellbeing and emotional self-regulation. We can relate to that. Con and jewels are opening up the conversations of the everyday struggles of dealing with adhd, depression, anxiety, epilepsy, and growing into adulthood. [00:13:16] I’m not, not, not a complete process for me. At 47 , they share tips and tricks of emotional awareness from their personal experiences and how they hold themselves accountable. And the way they know to do it best is with humor. You can keep up with them on any podcast platform and the YouTube channel. [00:13:34] Mental Chillness for full video content. Thanks for swapping with us. Mental Chillness. [00:13:40] Brett: Yeah, that means they’re gonna be talking about us too. [00:13:43] Jeff: What the hell do they say about us? [00:13:45] Brett: Uh, maybe that we have an amazing mental health corner. [00:13:48] Jeff: Hmm. We’re in the corner. Mental Health Corner [00:13:51] Christina: I can start, um, I’m fine. Uh, I’m going out of town for 10 days tomorrow and I need to pack and I need to find some stuff. So that’s stressing me out a little bit. Um, but, but I’m fine in some ways. I’m actually doing pretty good. I’m a little bit stressed at the moment because I’m trying to figure out, and I’m very distracted and I’m stopping myself because I have until, uh, apparently the ninth to, to figure this out. [00:14:13] But Taylor Swift tickets, uh, were announced this morning, uh, before I woke up. And, uh, although maybe about the time I went to bed, which dumbass don’t ever go to sleep. Um, and so that’s stressing me out because my mom really wants to go and I have friends who really. O and I, uh, have a reputation for always being able to get the tickets. [00:14:39] And I don’t want another adult situation where I wind up. I mean, it’s, it’s inevitable that I’m gonna wind up having to pay over price for at least one of the shows I wanna go to. But I do not wanna be in another situation where I pay $3,000 for shitty ass seats like I did with Adele in Vegas when she then motherfucking canceled and then we had to reschedule, and now we’re going at the end of January. [00:15:03] And the whole thing I’m pissed about, like, Adele could go fuck herself. [00:15:06] Brett: You, you, you said multiple times that you were fine. And, uh, [00:15:11] Christina: I’m stressed. I’m clearly not [00:15:12] Brett: in my experience in 12 step programs, fine has a bunch of meetings. You wanna hear some of the acronyms that people have attributed to fine, [00:15:21] Christina: sure [00:15:22] Brett: Fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and emotional. [00:15:26] Christina: that’s accurate. That’s completely [00:15:27] Brett: Fran Frantic, insane, nuts and egotistical, Faithful involved, knowledgeable and experienced. [00:15:36] foggy, insecure, neurotic emotion. Uh, feeling I’m nothing to everyone like these. It goes on, there’s a whole list of what fine act, And this is funny because my, I, my, my therapist will ask me, How are you doing? And I’ll say, I’m good. And he’ll be like, Okay. That’s not a response to How are you doing? Like, yeah, like you can be, you can be all of these things, but good is not a proper response. [00:16:03] And we’ve talked about how like, I’ll often respond with like, I’m fucking great or absolutely fantastic if I’m in a good mood. But yeah, so I feel like fine is not fine, is not an answer to how’s your mental health. [00:16:17] Christina: No. So I think the first one, Fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and emotional. Is that what the first one [00:16:22] Jeff: You’re like, That’s what [00:16:23] Christina: Okay. Yeah, [00:16:24] Brett: that’s a, that’s an A Smith reference, [00:16:27] Christina: Oh, is it? Well, well done. Steven Tyler and Joe Perry. That is Joe Perry was the other [00:16:32] Jeff: Never. Well done. Uh, Stephen Tyler. Never ever. Well done. [00:16:36] Christina: I mean, well live Tyler. Like he [00:16:39] Jeff: No Live Tyler. [00:16:40] Brett: Well done. Well done. Well [00:16:42] Jeff: the, There wasn’t Mc [00:16:43] Christina: I’m saying [00:16:45] Jeff: There was a web post on Mc Sweeney’s. Ones titled, I’m the guy who puts the bandanas on Stephen Tyler’s microphone Stand [00:16:51] Christina: Oh, I remember this. I [00:16:52] Jeff: And I’m sick of it. And I, and then I’m sick and tired of it or something [00:16:56] Christina: I, I, Yes, yes, yes. I remember this. I mean, that, that, that’s, that’s almost as good as, Oh, speaking of mixed Sweeneys, it is now, um, you know, decorative gor season motherfuckers. Um, [00:17:08] Brett: Classic. [00:17:09] Christina: um, no, but yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m stressed. The, the, the, the ticket drama aside, which is just, that’s just occupying the front part of my brain cuz I can focus on it. Um. I don’t, I mean, look, I don’t care. I’ll, I’ll figure that out. Uh, getting packed and, um, honestly, I’m trying to, so like, things are messy and we had like a, a cleaner come in and she did a good job, but something was put away and I don’t know where. [00:17:37] So I’m gonna have to go through a bunch of stuff to try to find my, um, my portable, uh, wireless mic packs. The alternative being, and I don’t wanna do this because A, it’s the easy way out and b, it costs money that I don’t wanna spend. But I’m afraid, like if I can’t find them in time, then I’m just gonna have to buy another fucking set of wireless mic packs that I don’t wanna do. [00:17:59] So I have, uh, and so if I can avoid spending $300, I would like to. So, um, yeah, but I’m gonna be gone for 10 days and that’s just getting everything ready for that. I’m not actually nervous about. Yeah, I’m not actually nervous about universe at all. Like, I’m feeling really good about that. And there are gonna be some cool things that happen when I’m in San Francisco. [00:18:22] Like I was, I was asked to speak, um, at, at a class at, uh, at Berkeley, um, next week. And so that’s really awesome. And, um, uh, the EFF awards happened to coincide with when I’ll be there. And so I was, uh, so I’m gonna get to go to those. Um, so like, it’s gonna be a good trip. Um, I’m just, you know, it’s, I’m gonna be gone for a long time and, uh, just getting everything ready for that is stressful. [00:18:48] Jeff: When you’ve had quite a like four to six weeks, really, [00:18:51] Brett: Yeah. Right. [00:18:52] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:54] Jeff: Just like running. [00:18:56] Brett: Last time I was at the EFF Awards, uh, Best of Booty was DJing and it was, it was crazy. There was a Sisters of Mercy BC Boys mashup that they played, and I could not stop dancing. It was insane. [00:19:09] Christina: Oh, the, I, I, I’ve been to those booty parties before, um, in, in San Francisco. God, I hadn’t thought about those in years. [00:19:16] Brett: Christina, that’s, Yeah, I would be stressed out as well. That is, You got a lot on your plate and you haven’t had downtime, [00:19:25] Jeff: I feel like, uh, the I’m fine is always, always, always missing one word, which is godammit. [00:19:33] Brett: or fuck off. I’m fine. Fuck off. [00:19:36] Christina: I’m fine. Fuck off. [00:19:38] Jeff: I had a therapist once who asked, how do, I said, Good. And, and she paused and she said, I’d like to invite you to make a bigger wave than good [00:19:50] Anyhow, um, I could, I could go. So they started talking. Should I, [00:19:54] Christina: Yes. [00:19:56] Jeff: um, I’m, I’m doing, I’m, I, I was gonna say I’m doing good. Um, I was reminded yesterday, uh, in a therapy appointment about two kinds of check-ins, uh, that you can do with yourself. One is just called like a five point check-in where it’s like, feel my feet, feel my hands, feel my butt on the chair, feel the back of the chair on my back, feel like into the center of my stomach. [00:20:20] You know, if you can kind of like quiet yourself enough to see if that’s even possible, it’s like a, a good little check in a good little way of like figuring out, am I present or am I not, or whatever. Right? There’s no wrong answer. And then another one is, is when having sort of. , Um, and you’re in kind of an elevated state, mental health wise to just kind of ask yourself like, how old do I feel right now? [00:20:42] Right? Like, cuz sometimes it can be the case that this is some like old version of you that’s like taking up all the space. Um, and actually you don’t need that old version of you to be reacting this way in this situation, Right? So I. Question for my therapist, which is . I have been going down YouTube rabbit holes that have definite years attached to them. [00:21:07] So as an example, watching interviews with the Edam and SMILE Band. David Lee Roths Band from like 86, right? And watching performances all through 1986, or watching interviews with the Sound Garden guys, uh, and performances in 1991. And I realized that like there were two or three different sort of time brackets in the last two weeks that I’ve been just obsessively going down YouTube rabbit holes. [00:21:32] And they all have very specific times in my life attached to them. Sixth grade was a huge time for me. Junior in high school was a huge time for me. And I asked my therapist, I’m like, Do you think this is an indication of how old I feel right now? Like if I’m, if I’m just obsessively watching the Edam and Smile band, right? [00:21:50] Like through the ages, am I, am I somehow in my sixth grade space? And if so, why? Right? So anyway, I’m just turning, uh, turning YouTube rabbit holes into a mental health investigation. [00:22:02] Christina: I don’t, I don’t, I wonder if it’s your wanting to recapture either the comfort you get from that era or the, the things you remember from there, rather so much than like, Feel like that age, like if it’s just more about like, like the comfort of that time. Kind of like watching TV shows that we’ve seen before because it can be more relaxing and, and you know, there’s like a, as we were talking about before, there can just be like an element, like when there’s nothing else new to watch, it’s like, well, I’m gonna watch what I’ve, what I’ve seen before, um, is on the background. [00:22:32] I wonder cuz I do that too sometimes. And I definitely don’t feel like I’m re oftentimes I don’t, it’s not necessarily about like reliving like those periods of time. It’s about like, I liked however I felt then or whatever comfort I got from that period. [00:22:45] Jeff: yeah, totally. I, I think that’s, that’s a piece of it too. It has to be. I also noticed lately that like, I’m really, so I was a, like you with Taylor Swift, um, Christina, I was a super fan of a handful of things from. Fifth grade on, I always had one or two bands that I was like obsessed with. Like Motley Crew was one at one point, right? [00:23:10] Metallica was one at one point. David Lee Roth and Van Halen were ones at one point. Right. And then it got into more sophisticated stuff. But like, those were the ones I went deep on. Those were all pre-internet. And one of the, one of the things that I find draws me in, um, for days on end, if it’s like end of the day tubing is like, I can go now and learn all the things that I had no access to learning about these bands, then I mean like a Great, I’m gonna bounce for a second. [00:23:38] A great example is, have you ever watched some kind of monster, the Metallica documentary [00:23:42] Christina: Oh, it’s one of my favorites. It, it’s one of my favorites, and I’m not even like, and, and I’m somebody who, frankly, like, because my, my generation’s biggest exposure to Metallica was that they sued their fans, right? Like that was, that was the whole thing, was that they, they literally sued their fans and, but that is one of my favorite, like documentaries. [00:24:03] I still can’t like that. The Dixie Chicks [00:24:05] Jeff: And why? Why is that a why? Why do you love that documentary? [00:24:08] Christina: Because you get to see the breakdown of what’s happening and band in a very real way, like most of the time in, you know, there are a couple of exceptions. The band by Martin Scorsese is obviously kind of, you know, and that’s a hybrid, like concert film, other thing, like there are some documentaries about musicians that really show the real behind the scenes stuff, but by and large they are PR blitzes, right? [00:24:30] It’s been like that. The director has been chosen. They are making it very clear what footage is and is not going to be shown with some kind of monster. I’m sure there was stuff that was left on the cutting room floor that would’ve made individuals look even worse or, or, you know, whatnot. Although I thought that it, you know, humanize them in a lot of regards. [00:24:49] But like, it was capturing a very specific moment and some very real things that you typically don’t see. Not only do you not see them in documentaries usually, but you almost never see them in celebrity documentaries. So for me, that’s why that to me is one of the standout, um, like rock, you know, like celebrity, like whatever, musician documentaries of our time, especially since, because of the success of that film and the success of, of the Dixie Chick ones and whatnot. [00:25:21] There then became this whole like, niche industry, which now most of ’em are on Netflix that are pure propaganda, right? Where you will never see anything even remotely real and verte. Um, like it, it, it’s a documentary only in the sense that like somebody shows up for a few hours and follows them around, but you’re not seeing anything. [00:25:41] Whereas I think that some kind of monster you got the sense that you got shit, you got to see shit that you. So one of the best in the genre would be dig Not, uh, you know, have you guys seen that on, on Timor about the, um, uh, uh, Brian Jonestowns massacre and, uh, and um, uh, the Dandy Warhols and, um, that is, she had access to these two bands for like a decade and she captured so much of their stuff. [00:26:11] And in fact, like, uh, uh, the guy who’s from the Ryan Jonestown massacre, like, he was not happy with the, with the film. It won the, uh, the Sundance, um, like highest honors at Sundance. Um, when it came out, that is like a real ass documentary, but both of those bands are small enough that you could have, you know, the risk of maybe pissing them off and doing things you could get around, get away with. [00:26:35] And that to me is like, that’s like a real ass documentary. Some kind of monster is a little more polished, but it’s like still showing shit that. Does not paint them in a good light. And that definitely captures a moment in time that their record label, I’m sure would not have liked for that to be the, you know, the promo for the album. [00:26:55] Jeff: The thing that I loved about it, having been a fan in, I think I saw them, I know I saw them on the Injustice for All Tour, and I must have been a fan for a couple years before that. But that’s, and I saw them on the Black Album tour and then I kind of fell off. But like having been in bands from eighth grade until I was about 24, the marker of a band experience is that you have so many stupid fights, right? [00:27:17] You have the dumbest arguments, right. About rifts, about is that, you know, a little too jammy or is that a right And, and you never assume that Metallica, especially because they had a persona that was just so kind of mythical, right? Like they seemed, uh, beyond human to me as a kid. And to watch them having these same little fights, um, and to watch how, sort of like, for lack of a better word, like kind of whiny they could be with each other as they made this music was like, God, I wish I knew this when I was a kid. [00:27:52] Cuz I really think that you, you try to become the. I watched a lot of people go down bad roads trying to be what they thought these people were. Right. But in fact they were just like us cuz they’re just human beings. And for anybody, No, this is like, Metallica hires a therapist for $40,000 a month to be with them for like two years as they try to make a record. [00:28:14] And in the course of that, Jason Newstead, their basis quits. The therapist himself starts suggesting lyrics, uh, and pissing the band off like it is. It is amazing. [00:28:26] Christina: It is amazing cuz the therapist like, gets off on the fame and like starts to see himself as a member of the band and, and [00:28:32] Jeff: to play it. Cool. [00:28:34] Christina: he is. But it, it, it’s fantastic. And, uh, yeah. Um, and it’s funny I just looked this up. Yeah. Some kind of monster and, um, and Dig came out the same year, which is probably why I associate them together a little bit. [00:28:47] Uh, but, but no, it’s, it’s just, it’s a great, it’s a great fucking documentary. [00:28:53] Jeff: and to bring it back to being a kid really quick, like the, the sweetest part of that documentary is when they hire Robert to heal, to be their new bass player. After, after, uh, uh, auditioning a bunch of people and they’re sitting at the table with him telling them he’s in and they say, And what we want to do is we’re gonna give you a million dollars just to join. [00:29:13] And that’s, that’s just to join. And then you’ll start getting other money, right? And he watching him just be like, What the fuck? And then they cut to this shot of him bouncing around his bedroom as a goddamn grown ass man, pre million dollars playing his bass like a little kid in his room. And he just got hired from a million dollars to be the bass player in Metallica, [00:29:33] It was like amazing. Anyway. [00:29:35] Brett: feel like after you watch some kind of monster, you have to go back and watch Murder in the Front Row [00:29:40] Jeff: Oh, so good. Yeah, that’s true. Good point. That’s the early thrash documentary that documents the early days of Metallica and uh, and Exodus and [00:29:50] Brett: era. [00:29:51] Jeff: yeah, that’s true. That is a nice, uh, added piece now. [00:29:55] Brett: Jeff turned me onto that documentary. It was, it was like, yeah. It, it brought me back to being a certain age again, um, to like, to remember where, where Exodus was, like the beginning of so many things and, and, and how the, the interactions between all those early thrash bands, uh, change exchanging members and everything and kicking members out and. [00:30:21] Christina: Um, yeah, I, I, I wanna go back and watch that. I, I have never seen that. That sounds amazing. This is just a side tangent cuz I was looking at the directors of some kind of monster, and this is why I think that film works, like, why it’s like better than almost anything of its genre. The two directors, um, are, are probably most, Well they, they directed a documentary called Brothers Keeper, which is very well known. [00:30:42] But what they’re most famous for is they, they did the Paradise Lost documentaries for HBO about the West Memphis. and, and which, you know, similar to a thin blue line, like is responsible [00:30:55] Jeff: did not realize that was the same [00:30:58] Christina: I didn’t either. I didn’t either until I just looked that up and I went, Holy shit. Okay, well that makes sense because you had real fucking like, you know what I mean? [00:31:06] Like you had real fucking filmmakers. [00:31:08] Jeff: Right, right. Awesome. So I don’t know where my mental health check check-in began or ended, but that’s where I’m [00:31:15] Brett: I can actually segue your mental health check in just fine. Um, so first of all, when you ask Christina why she liked some kind of monster and she knew like she, she had reasons off the top of her head, that blows me away because I watched things and I’m like, I was fucking great. I love that. But if someone were to be like, What, what was so great about it? [00:31:40] I have to think really hard. I have to like do all of this analytical processing in my head, and I usually come up with the wrong answer. And like later on late at night, I’ll be like, Wait, no, here’s why I actually like that. Here’s why that spoke to me. So it, it blows me away when other people are like, Yo, because this and this and this and this, obviously this is why it was great. [00:32:03] That’s, uh, that blows me away about Christina. Um, uh, and [00:32:07] Christina: And I haven’t, and I haven’t seen that. I haven’t seen that in, in at least a decade. Sorry, go on. [00:32:12] Brett: Sure. Exactly. That’s what I’m talking about. Um, uh, randomly the vow is back, Christina, and, [00:32:19] Christina: Oh my God. We have to talk about it at some point. Um, it’s, Did you see the episode last night? [00:32:25] Brett: Uh, I, No, I’ve only seen the first episode of the new series. [00:32:29] Christina: Okay. Okay. Uh, the, we’ll talk about it next time I’m on a pod because at that point we’ll have another couple episodes. But the one that aired last night, um, and, and, and Jeff, if you need to watch this, we’ll find a way to do it or I’ll lend you my HBO login. But if you don’t already have HBO. Okay. But it, it’s, uh, yeah. [00:32:48] Sorry. It’s back. It’s great. Sorry. Go on. Go on. [00:32:51] Brett: so speaking of feeling a certain age, uh, this actually was a big, uh, big part of my last therapy session. Uh, because when I’m talking to my parents and they, they, they will intentionally press a button. They’ll say something like, There’s no evidence for evolution or Democrats or murdering babies. [00:33:12] And like they are, they’re hot button topics that immediately send me back to being in high school. And when I first started splitting from the church and, and I first started having dinnertime arguments with my parents and I, I hyperventilate like. Once they say something like that, if you were to say something like that, or if any other person in the world were to say something like that, I could calmly say, Well actually here, here, here’s what I believe here, here are the, the known facts. [00:33:48] And, and I could explain to you why I believe what I believe, but when it’s my parents, like it sends me back to being this 16 year old kid who’s just starting to like break away from indoctrination and just starting to like flail, like I was flailing. Like I knew, I didn’t believe what they believe, but I didn’t know what else to believe. [00:34:13] And it is rough and like we’re working like therapy right now. I’m working on trying to. A Sue, um, I, uh, inform that, that younger version of me, so that the adult version of me can have these conversations with my parents in like a sane way. Uh, and like usually a statement like that results in me storming out and, and not talking them to them for a couple weeks. [00:34:45] Um, and, and I would like to find a way around that where things could remain civil. Um, clearly they, they’re not looking for civility when they say things like that, so like, it’s up to me to like maintain that civility. But man, that has been, that has been a, a trial for me. But, uh, like mental health wise, I, I hit depression. [00:35:13] Um, and I was able to lift myself out of it pretty quickly. Um, I’ve, I’ve developed new coping strategies that allow me to, uh, use, um, uh, rigorous scheduling to kind of, uh, break the cycle. And I had a, I had a, a manic episode that I was able to keep down to just, uh, two nights of no sleep and then immediately curtail it and never get to that, like shaky, um, real super manic point. [00:35:51] And then I was able to, Stop depression after just a few days, and depression usually lasts me, My bipolar depression usually lasts me at least two weeks. And, uh, thanks to my new coping mechanisms and, uh, my girlfriend’s understanding of, of what was going on. Uh, actually I’m, I’m pretty good today. I’m not gonna say I’m like totally stables, totally out of depression, but I’m, I’m productive. [00:36:23] I’m, I’m not thinking critical thoughts, self-critical thoughts. I, I, I, I feel like you guys like me today, um, which is, you know, a great, a great place to be. I had coffee. See? That’s super sweet. It doesn’t feel like that to me. And it’s not your fault. Like [00:36:44] Christina: No, no. [00:36:45] Brett: That’s nothing that you [00:36:46] Christina: no, no, no, no, no. And I wanna be clear. I understand that impulse, so I like, I’m not discounting that. I’m just letting you know like that. Our reality is we love you and I know that that how your brain sees things, that it doesn’t always feel that way or whatever. But I’m just putting it out there because sometimes it has helped hear it over and over again like we do love you. [00:37:04] But anyway, Sorry, go on. You were having, [00:37:06] Brett: yeah, so, so my best friend from middle school, um, we were, we were thickest thieves. We were in the church together. And, uh, we lost, we, we drifted apart a little bit in high school, but we were still friends. And then kind of just ceased our connection after, uh, a couple years after high school. And, um, I hadn’t really, hadn’t really interacted with him. [00:37:34] And, um, I had coffee with him. I had seen some of his posts on Facebook. He had seen some of mine, and I realized, yeah, I still, I still connect with this guy. Like we still go through the. We still hurt in the same ways and we still are dealing with the same shit. And, uh, so we got together, I, I, I instigated it months ago, and then I had like a manic episode. [00:37:58] I’m like, I just, I can’t, I can’t be with you right now. And, and it dragged on for a couple months. We finally did it and holy shit, like it was, he’s overweight and I gave him shit in middle school and high school, like, just joking, like, look at you chubs and, and like to look back and realize how much pain he was in, um, and how, how much that affected his mental health. [00:38:30] Uh, he’s been through, well he’s been through like prison time and, and shit that I, I don’t necessarily have any, uh, any way of relating to. In fact, all my high school friends went to prison except for me, uh, . I don’t know what that says, [00:38:49] Jeff: I have a similar situation. [00:38:51] Brett: yeah. Uh, but it was, it was a very meaningful, like, it, it, as far as mental health goes, like it was, and he’s still dealing with a lot of shit. [00:39:01] And, uh, but seeing how he’s grown and the things he’s been through and how he’s dealt with it was very informative to me. So that’s my mental health check in. Should we take a sponsor break? 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That’s n o d vpn.com/ Overtired. Go grab this amazing deal and start surfing securely nord vpn.com/ Overtired. [00:41:33] Jeff: And please join us again, uh, for the next episode of Can We Lose a sponsor? [00:41:39] Brett: didn’t, I did not get in trouble for the Norwegian blood sports last week. [00:41:43] Jeff: listeners would not be surprised that Brett has a shortcut on his phone and he hits it when he walks into his office and the lights go down. Uh, a sort of Catnet mist, uh, is expelled into the air and, uh, and Nord VPN is fired up and he is ready to go. No the Other Conway [00:41:58] Brett: ready to go? Should we, uh, should we talk about Conway West? Kanye. Conway, Conway Yest [00:42:07] Christina: yeah. [00:42:08] Jeff: Twitty. [00:42:09] Brett: Kanye. Kanye Yee. Should we talk about. [00:42:12] Christina: Yay. Yay. [00:42:14] Brett: Yay. [00:42:15] Jeff: I’ll see what happens. I’m not inclined. [00:42:18] Brett: Why is it, Why would it be Yeezy? But then, Yay, [00:42:21] Jeff: don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. You can’t do it. You’re like, [00:42:26] Brett: Yay is spelled y a y. [00:42:28] Jeff: to another white podcast, Discusses Kanye West. [00:42:32] Brett: what is going on? What is going on with I, I want Christina’s take on what is happening. [00:42:37] Christina: Uh, I mean, the whole thing is sad. So I’ve mentioned on this podcast before that I’ve, by and large stopped having, like, making any sort of public comments about him or anything, and like finding any sort of like entertainment and the spectacle. Like in, in early 2016 when he was going on some of his, his Twitter rants and stuff, like it was, the meltdown that was happening was entertaining, but we didn’t know that. [00:43:01] I mean, in retrospect, maybe it should have been obvious, but we didn’t know that he was bipolar. He hadn’t been diagnosed yet. He hadn’t had like that, that breakdown on stage, like those things hadn’t happened. I’m in no way defending anything that he said, cuz I think it’s important and I think that people continuing to platform him actually and like interview him on podcasts for so, but basically what’s been happening is he’s made a lot of antisemitic and really crazy out there and frankly, conspiratorial like qan shit comments, um, uh, about the Jewish media controlling everything and, and these Jewish doctors diagnosing him with something he doesn’t think he has and all this crazy shit. [00:43:36] And then he’s doubled and tripled down on it. And, uh, he’s been dropped by, uh, by Adidas. So his, his shoe empire, um, is, is gone. He’s, uh, you know, he’d already lost things with his record label. Like they hadn’t, didn’t have an arrangement. But Def Jam has basically been like, we’re not doing anything with you. [00:43:54] CAA dropped him, um, documentary that he had is not gonna come out. Balenciaga uh, uh, dropped their affiliation. Um, his partnership with the gap ended like, His career is basically, I mean, I’m not gonna say it’s over because people love comeback stories and people will forgive geniuses lots and lots of things, but it’s, it, it’s really, um, bad. [00:44:18] But what I wanted to talk about, and I wanted to get your two perspectives, because you’re both bipolar, I have a hard time with this. Not in any way that I want to absolve or in any way, like say the, what he like give excuses for what he said, cuz that’s, that’s not the case. But to me, this is somebody who, for years now, has clearly been in mental health crisis. [00:44:40] Like, and, and I, we’ve even talked about this on this pod before, Brett, like it’s angered me cuz I’m like, it’s similar to Britney Spears. There are people who are in their lives who clearly don’t give a shit about. Because they’re letting them continue to just like spiral. And in this case, it’s happening really publicly. [00:44:56] And I’ve actually been really bothered by a couple of things. One, the number of like podcasts hosts and other people who have continued to do interviews with him. Like, uh, Lex Friedman brought him on his podcast because Lex Friedman thought he’d, he thought he’d be smart enough to be able to talk him out of all of his conspiratorial bullshit. Lex, of course, you’re not Lex. Of course you’re not. And and also he’s not mentally well, so all you’re doing is, is platforming somebody who is not in a position, in my opinion. Like you see somebody who’s going through a mental health crisis, don’t bring them on your fucking podcast for clout because that’s what you’re doing. [00:45:34] The whole reason you’re doing, it’s cuz you know you’re getting clicks. Even if you’re like, Oh, well I’m smart enough that I can change his mind. No, you can’t. He’s sick. He’s fucking sick. [00:45:43] Brett: my understanding is that he’s willfully untreated for bipolar. Is that correct? [00:45:48] Christina: That is, that is correct. And that is not uncommon. Right. And, and I’m not defending any of this. I’m just saying these are things that as the public, as we talk about, it should be part of the conversation. And instead the conversation seems to be either, how can we use this for clicks, or I’m going to defend him because of my own issues and, and, and racism and, and, and, and antisemitism and bigotry or, and then this is what does honestly bother me, where you got people who go, Oh, well mental illness has nothing to do with the way he’s acting. [00:46:22] He’s just a motherfucking asshole. So fuck this guy. And this has nothing to do with this mental health. And to me that is really harmful. And that’s coming from people who should fucking know better. [00:46:31] Brett: Yeah, no, I, I a hundred percent agree. Um, I want, I wanna pause for a moment on the willfully untreated, uh, aspect of it because like so many artists in history, um, dating back for as far as we can reasonably make, we have enough documentation to reasonably make a, a post-mortem assessment. Like there have been so many bipolar artists in history, and so many people have faced the, uh, since, since treatment began this for a bipolar person. [00:47:08] Like we are creative people and, and we create, and the idea of medicating. Something that we, once we have a diagnosis, it’s, it’s hard for us to separate what we create from our mental illness. And the idea of treating it is a very holy shit, what if I can’t do this thing? In Kanye’s case, that has made him famous. [00:47:35] Uh, like the idea of Kanye not being able to create has to be terrifying. And, and I, I get why someone would say, No, I can’t treat this. I’m just gonna roll with it. But to your point, [00:47:48] Christina: Especially if your first experience with medication, which as you can both probably attest, what we can all do has been negative and has maybe like lessened and flattened your creativity and you feel drugged. Because many times that is, especially if you’re in like a, like a, an acute mental health crisis, the first thing they’re going to give you is basically going to be a tranquilizer and it is going to mute you. [00:48:09] So, sorry, go on. I didn’t mean to cut you [00:48:11] Brett: Yeah. Well, and, and I highly, I talked about Ellen Forney last week. Um, I highly recommend anyone thinking about this particular topic. Uh, read Marbles by Ellen Forney, uh, cuz she goes through this. Uh, this whole thought process. But, um, to your point, like, yeah, I, I’m bipolar. I say crazy shit when I’m manic. [00:48:36] Um, I, I intentionally push buttons when I’m manic. I, uh, my train of thought goes places that, uh, uh, stable me, never would. Um, so, and, and I, you know, I only have hypomania to, to say that that mental illness, that bipolar couldn’t make someone say the crazy shit. Couldn’t, like, there was a, I think it was N Y T, uh, didn’t article on how he wanted to use Hitler and the title of his last album and like, frequently Espes an a fondness for Hitler. [00:49:17] Um, like this shit. Absolutely can be attributed to mental illness and to say otherwise is disingenuous and [00:49:27] Christina: And unhelpful. And, okay. I, this is what I wanted to point out cuz this was the article that finally made me wanna talk about it. Uh, there were two things. One, I thought a really good exploration how I think a lot of people feel Casey Nasdat did like a vlog on his channel, um, where he, he talked about how Kanye broke his heart and talked about what a huge fanny was of Kanye and how disappointing all this stuff is. [00:49:47] And he does elude a little bit to some of the mental health stuff. But just as a pure like fan human perspective, I thought his video was really good. That’s positive. Here’s the negative and this is what fucking pisses me off and this really pisses me off because this is a place I used to work. The headline for Gizmoto is when Kanye, when Kanye spewed hate, some blamed his mental illness experts say that has nothing to do with it. [00:50:13] And. Fuck you, First of all. First of all, this whole thing was written clearly when you read the post. It was written as a response to people who would say on Twitter or online, whether it’s being seen as defensive or not being like, okay. Maybe chill out a little bit on making on, on some of like the, the rhetoric because the guy has clearly gone well and going, Oh well, there’s no way in hell. [00:50:37] Just because you’re mentally ill doesn’t mean you spew antisemitic shit. Sometimes it does. Um, and, and I mean certainly if you have schizophrenia, uh, and I’m not saying he does, but certainly that’s very famous for people saying all kinds of crazy shit. You, you’ve just said, like, uh, you know, um, uh, and I’ve known people who are bipolar, who have said all kinds of stuff that is completely out there and conspiratorial and is like paranoid. [00:51:01] And that is delusional, frankly. Um, when they’re in states. And, and I’m not saying that there aren’t, like I, I’m not making it as an excuse, I’m just saying, and maybe it doesn’t, it’s not a subset of some things that exist, but maybe it’s the push buttons. We don’t know. All I’m saying is that what they did is they wanted to prove. [00:51:19] People on Twitter wrong. So they called up psychologists and psychiatrists who have never evaluated him, who probably don’t even know the situation to get them to say, Oh no, um, this has nothing to do. His, his, his actions have nothing to do with his mental health and fuck you. Like on the, in the same breath, we see some of the same people who say that a homeless guy in, in, in Prospect Park where I used to live, who, uh, was, was spewing, really was saying really terrible things, uh, tossing urine on a woman and killed her dog. [00:51:52] Were saying that that guy should be excused because clearly he’s mentally ill and, and, and shouldn’t be arrested. But were saying that Kanye West. Going through a clearly, like a, a, a mental, like a, a, a manic episode where no one in his inner circle seems to give a fuck about him, and the public is just like gawking at it. [00:52:13] We’re saying, Oh, but that has, that has no bearing. His, his completely outrageous behavior has, has no bearing on mental health. Like, what, what is it? You know what I mean? Like the same people are saying both of those things and, and that really bothers me. And I’m sorry, I’m with my rant. [00:52:26] Brett: no, it’s fine. I, I, I want to hear Jeff’s input too, but I will say that, For me, growing up in an evangelical, like fundamentalist childhood combined with years of mania and depression makes me extremely, um, uh, susceptible to conspiracy theory. Um, like, just like the fundamentalist upbringing, you are always looking for who’s persecuting you and who is to blame for your problems. [00:53:01] And you combine that with a little bit of mania and mental illness, you can go off the reels fast and, and like that is, that’s not a personal, like, I have to work really hard not to buy into conspiracy theories that make just a little bit of sense. Oh yeah. That, that explains this thing in, that fills in these holes. [00:53:23] In my understanding, in a way that I can accept and, and to be radicalized from there, it’s, it’s, it’s an easy step. And, and to get down, down far right, uh, keyholes is, is pretty easy. But Jeff, do you, do you wanna weigh in on this? [00:53:42] Jeff: I don’t know that I have anything to add to what you two have said, which I really feel resonates with me for sure. [00:53:52] Brett: I do feel at the same time that Kanye has been very bad for mental illness. Um, like I’m embarrassed enough to talk about my bipolar, uh, bipolar comes with more of a stigma than something like ADHD does. Um, people are immediately more scared. When you tell them you’re bipolar. Um, my, to be fair, the reaction in general in interpersonal conversations has been very uplifting for me. [00:54:20] But, uh, to have someone publicly making bipolar look that bad, it’s, it’s not great for me personally. I, So, speaking of, nope, I can’t segue easily into gratitude from here. Um, but I feel like we should, before the show ends, [00:54:40] Christina: Yeah. No. Well, I think, I think this is our segue here, which is, which is like, I’m grateful for both of you and I’m grateful for this podcast for having these hard conversations and to have a place where we’re not being like, we’re not doing like the knee-jerk, like bad hot takes, right? Like, I’m grateful for that. [00:54:58] So now let’s talk about some apps we’re grateful for. [00:55:00] Jeff: for sure. For sure. Grapptitude [00:55:03] Brett: Um, I’ll kick it off. Uh, my pick this week is Code Runner, which will not matter to anyone who does not write code, but if you write code in Java or Lua or Rust or Ruby or Python, um, it is a great little like self-contained app where you can try things out, um, execute them as you write them and see what the result will be. [00:55:27] So when I’m working on a larger project, uh, in X Code or Sublime or VS code, I’ll copy snippets of code out, create small testable instances of it. And, and then Code Runner provides like a very IDE like interface with auto completion and everything that I can modify and, and continually test and refine a small piece of code, um, and see the output of it as I work on it. [00:55:56] Uh, it, it handles maybe 30 different languages. Um, and you can add, uh, any, any processors you need to it. And it’s, it’s, it’s fantastic as a small, uh, test tool and it’s available on setup and for any developers out there, especially developers who already have set up, um, that’s my recommendation for. [00:56:21] Jeff: I, uh, I want to add something about Code Runner, which I love is the first thing you do when you download it is you go into the preferences and you go to the general tab. You won’t have to go there, you’ll be right there. Friends. Uh, at the bottom it says file type associations and you can edit which files get automatically opened by Code Runner. [00:56:41] In my experience, when you open this thing the first time, it takes everything. It’s super greedy and it’s super confusing. But, uh, once you make that change, it’s just wonderful cause you can run Diagnos Diagnostics on your code and there’s so much you can do. It’s really nice. [00:56:57] Brett: yeah. But yeah, like if you, if you don’t regularly use Lua and, and then you, you need to edit a Lua file and you double click it, instead of opening in VS code or Sublime, it’s gonna open in Code Runners. So yeah, it’s worth checking out those preferences. [00:57:14] Jeff: Yep. Yep. All right. Should I go next? Christina, you wanna go next? [00:57:19] Christina: Um, yeah, I’ve, um, I’ve got one. So, uh, this came out last week and, um, I, I missed it, but I, uh, love this. And, um, it, it’s free, it’s open source, but you can also like name your own price if you want to support it. So were either of you, um, uh, ever HyperCard users. [00:57:39] Jeff: No. [00:57:40] Brett: before my, before my Mac time. [00:57:42] Christina: So I, um, and it was actually technical. It was before my time, but for whatever reason, we had like a version of it in elementary school, I wanna say. [00:57:51] And I, it was sort of my introduction to the idea of hypertext and, and, and, and linking things and whatnot, which is sort of what it did. While there’s, um, uh, an app that came out last week, uh, from, um, Beyond a Loom, um, called Decker. And um, it is basically built to be, A, um, it’s like a HyperCard, um, kind of clone that has the visual aesthetics of like a classic Macs app. [00:58:20] So it’s kind of like the, the black and white, uh, kind of thing, like straight out of 1984. And, um, a lot of the same simplicity that HyperCard had. I’m gonna be, uh, reading from their website, uh, while adding many subtle and overt quality of life improvements, like a deep undue history, support for scroll wheels and touch screens, more modern keyboard navigation and bulk editing stuff. [00:58:41] And so you could use it if you wanted to like, create, you know, like throwback looking zines or, you know, presentations, book games, doodling. Um, what’s really neat about it is that, uh, The guy who who created this is, is that it’s like command line friendly. Um, it comes with, uh, his own language lilt, which I think is inspired by Lua, uh, which is like, uh, like his own kind of language where you can like read and write and manipulate and, and execute Decker commands. [00:59:09] Headlessly. Um, it, like I said, it, it’s, uh, open source on, um, GitHub, but, um, it’s also he’s putting out periodic binaries for Mac West and Windows on I io where you can like pay what you want and, um, there’s a browser demo that you can check out. I just, this is the sort of thing where it’s not an app that I necessarily would like use a lot, and it’s not something I think that has maybe like super broad appeal, but the amount of work that clearly went into this is incredible. [00:59:42] And I think that, um, like taking this very classic application and modernizing it, but also keeping that like nostalgic look, um, is, is fucking badass. And, and, uh, I just, I’m really impressed with every aspect of this. Like, just all the work that went into this, I’m just like so impressed. [01:00:03] Brett: I know some people that will love this. I, I hadn’t seen this, but. [01:00:07] Jeff: There’s, um, there’s also , there’s an amazing looking artist Technica, um, article about the history of HyperCard, and I will put it in the show notes. It looks awesome. I did not realize, I did not realize that Mist was built using HyperCard, which is awesome. [01:00:25] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, it, it’s funny because I remember like before PowerPoint and before like webpages, like that was sort of my introduction to how you could do things like that and, and, and, you know, link multiple things together. And like, I, I, my theory has always been that I think the reason that the web made so much sense to me as young as I was when I got into it was because I had spent hours and hours and hours in elementary school with hyper. [01:00:54] Jeff: Hmm. [01:00:54] Christina: Um, and, and so many of the paradigms made sense because they all came from the same place, right? Like, it all came from like many of the same, uh, things. You know, obviously like what, what, um, uh, Tim Burners Lee was doing with the worldwide web and building on, you know, like, like, you know, uh, high protect markup language and all that stuff like that was like inspired by many of the same, um, things that were happening when HyperCard and some other stuff was, was happening. [01:01:20] So it’s, it’s, uh, uh, that’s always been my personal theory. Um, also, you’ll appreciate this, uh, breadth that if you wanna build the documentation, it requires multi markdown. So, um, so he uses multi [01:01:34] Brett: Oh, multi markdown. [01:01:36] Christina: know. I agree. And I mean, that’s my favorite flavor. So the, the whole thing, I think, uh, it’s, um, anyway, it, I think it’s really, really, I just thought this was incredible. [01:01:46] I think this is just like a clearly, like a big labor of love and like an ice achievement. So just wanted to get that shot. [01:01:52] Jeff: That’s really cool. Um, I am going to set up what I’m, uh, what I’m gratitu uh, without saying what it is at first. Um, cause I think we’ve already done it, but I have all of the, all of these audio clips. From years of doing interviews and, um, I also, for years of my life, always kept like a dictaphone with me. [01:02:13] And so I would just record conversations with friends or road trips or whatever. And I’ve had this, this audio forever and I have not known what to do with it, even though I really wanted to share some of it. And I recently decided that I would crack open headliner and, uh, make some like audiograms out of this stuff that I have. [01:02:34] So an example is last week I was talking about, uh, an interview I did with Fugazi and Minor threats, Ian mackay. And he, he emphasized that he is a, in fact, a punk rock motherfucker. Um, I made a little audiogram out of that and it was delightful. And I’m gonna make one today out of a, out of the clip with a interview I did with Wallace Sean Inconceivable of [01:03:01] Christina: I love [01:03:01] Brett: Yeah. [01:03:02] Jeff: and many other things. [01:03:03] And I, I asked him, Yeah, he put a, um, my dinner with Andre, all of that. He put a book of essays out. He’s a socialist. He put a book of essays out and I was working at a magazine and I, I interviewed him for a podcast and I asked him, cuz he’s kind of an Upper West side, you know, liberal elite type of guy. [01:03:22] Um, and I, and I, and he, he really believes in, you know, socialism in such a way that, like a class war feels inevitable. And so I said, So what happens? The class war, uh, comes, they’re knocking at your door with the pitchforks and the torches. They break it open and what do you say? And he said, Um, Well, I would make a case for myself, but in the end I wouldn’t think it the greatest tragedy if they were to kill me. So I have all these things and I realize they lend themselves so well to these little headliner, um, audiograms. And what’s cool about that is it feels like I sat on these little audio clips for years not knowing what to do with them. And it’s just because the way I wanted to use them didn’t exist yet. [01:04:10] And now I feel like there is a way to use them, albeit very time consuming if you wanna do it well. Um, but it’s, it’s something I’ll be playing with all week, including our own headliner bits. [01:04:21] Brett: So is headliner to the pick. [01:04:23] Jeff: So headliners the pick. And for anybody that doesn’t know it’s a service that, you know, if you’ve ever been scrolling through Twitter and a podcast you love has a little clip with a wave form going and, and uh, and uh, subtitles. [01:04:37] Um, and it’s just an entertaining little clip. That’s the kind of thing that Headliner does beautifully. That said, working on them to really make the transcript match the exact appearance of the words and that kinda stuff makes me realize that we’ve gotta be just a few years away from somehow I make these with a markdown document just to like, bring in last week’s pick deck set Cause it does feel like it’s, it’s highly, it’s highly dependent on this interactive, um, kind of design that is very well done for what it’s trying to do, but also feels somehow very, um, uh, not of its time. So [01:05:19] Brett: Nice. [01:05:19] Jeff: that’s it. Get some sleep friends. [01:05:22] Christina: Get some sleep towels. [01:05:23] intro-outro: The system.