Overtired

Christina is out with COVID and we hope she gets well real soon! Brett and Jeff duet on this episode and go into the weeds with Brett’s bookmarklets and PopClip extensions. Brett is also forced into a lightning round where he tells us about his favorite apps of 2022. All that AND a cameo from Elle! Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim 50% off any new system. Show Links Are bookmarklets (favlets?) dead? PopClip Brett’s PopClip extensions Jay Miller’s video on YAML-based PopClip extensions Mac Menu Bar: A Curated Directory of 750+ Apps Brett’s Favorites 2022 – Personal Projects Brett’s Favorites 2022 – Mac Apps Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett’s Favorite Apps of 2022! [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Jeff: Hello? Uh, [00:00:06] Brett: People. Hello people. [00:00:10] Jeff: I didn’t have a bit in my back pocket. I was looking for like, hello, Metro area, uh, commuters. [00:00:15] Brett: Hello Metrosexuals. [00:00:17] Jeff: Uh, yeah. Hello, all you people, the commuters and the sexuals. Um, this is the Overtired podcast. I am. One of your hosts, Jeff Severances Gunzel, and I’m here with Brett Terpstra and Christina Warren has Covid and is not with us this week. [00:00:35] So pour one out. Uh, fauci was right. Uh, . What else do we wanna say? Hashtag something. Um, anyway, [00:00:46] Brett: Elon was wrong. [00:00:47] Jeff: Elon. Elon is wrong. [00:00:49] Brett: DeSantis was wrong. [00:00:51] Jeff: Man. What? Why are we letting all these people’s names onto our podcast They take up a lot of space once you, once you let ’em in. [00:00:59] Brett: yeah. [00:01:00] Jeff: all right. Everyone’s banished, but you and me and the, and the spirit of Christina. [00:01:04] Hi, Brett. [00:01:05] Brett: Hi, Jeff. [00:01:06] Jeff: How’s it going? [00:01:07] Brett: It’s uh, it’s good. I am, I am waiting on my, So it’s been snowing a lot. I don’t know how much you guys have up in the cities, but we’ve gotten about a foot now and uh, I have an electric snow blower that is not great for clearing wet snow. And, uh, so we’re at the mercy of our neighbor with like, uh, his four wheeler with a plow on it, and he comes and digs us out, but on his schedule, not ours. [00:01:37] Jeff: Right, right. [00:01:37] Brett: Um, and Elle’s car is a Sonata, and I don’t know if you’ve ever driven a sonata in [00:01:44] Jeff: Yeah, that’s a, is it a four wheel drive? Sonata? [00:01:46] Brett: yeah. Right. It’s a front wheel drive, four cylinder sonata that does not handle snow at all. Like the slightest, the slightest layer of slick on the road, and it serves fishtailing. So when it snows, she drives my Audi. [00:02:03] All Audis are all wheel drive with anti-lock brakes and they’re amazing winter vehicles. Um, like you can drive my Audi in a foot of snow and not even realize it’s slippery. Like it just handles it. Just handles it. Uh, so on days like this, she takes my car to. And I stay home without transportation. So she is currently responsible for picking up my vivance today, and I am not taken my vivance yet. [00:02:35] I am, I am at her mercy, uh, when she is able to pick up my vivance and drop it off. So I’m a little, I’m a little dead pan right now. Um, I’m, I’m lacking the, I’m lacking my usual, my usual Terpstra. [00:02:51] Jeff: I don’t know. You got a little pep in your step, little dip in your hip. [00:02:54] Brett: I got new glasses. [00:02:56] Jeff: new glasses. Congratulations. Where did you get those? [00:02:59] Brett: Oh, from Zenni Optical. [00:03:01] Jeff: That’s like a mail order thing that I don’t know about. [00:03:03] Brett: Yeah, like I got my pupillary distance measured last time I had an eye appointment. [00:03:09] Jeff: is none of my business [00:03:14] Brett: And, uh, and got glasses fitted and they fit perfectly and they got the, they got the blue light blocking, and I gotta say, I, I, I love them. And it was like a hundred bucks total for like the whole package with clip on sunglasses and everything. [00:03:30] Jeff: Ooh, clip [00:03:30] Brett: Yeah. Fancy, right? [00:03:32] Jeff: do you keep those fucking things when you’re [00:03:33] Brett: I don’t know yet. They’re, right now they’re in my bathroom cabinet, but [00:03:38] Jeff: That’s not where you need [00:03:39] Brett: I’ll probably keep them in my car. [00:03:41] Jeff: Yeah, maybe somewhere, at least on the way outside. [00:03:44] Brett: Like, I seriously considered the transition lenses, but you have to make a choice. Either you get lenses that go completely clear when you’re inside, which is a must for me. Like I can’t stand talking to people that look like they’re, their glasses look like they’re on their way out. [00:04:03] Jeff: Yeah. Right, right, right. It’s not polite. It’s not polite to send those kind of signals. It’s not presence. [00:04:08] Brett: I saw a meme that just said transition lenses that get darker the longer somebody talks to you, But so the those though do not activate when you’re inside your car, behind your leg. UV protection, um, windshield. So I need, like, the only time I need my glasses to turn into sunglasses is when I’m driving. [00:04:33] And so I ne and it was in either or, and neither of them, if they ever can combine glasses that will activate behind a UV windshield and go completely clear when you’re indoors, then I will buy transition [00:04:49] Jeff: about like a button on the side that’s like you’re in control, you know? [00:04:54] Brett: and, and it turns on like one way mirrors like mirror shade. [00:04:57] Jeff: Sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I, um, I just had my, uh, I just had my eyes examined. Uh, my annual, I examine, I am getting progressive lenses. That’s right. Goddam it. And I’m turning 48 in about a month. So it all works. It all works. We got a bag of chips. [00:05:16] Brett: Get, no, I got a bag of meds. [00:05:19] Jeff: Ooh. A bag of mess. Did El just come in, [00:05:21] Brett: Al just came in [00:05:22] Jeff: Al, come. [00:05:24] Brett: at, Hey, wait, Al come back. She’s coming back. [00:05:27] Jeff: Okay. [00:05:28] Brett: You get to watch me take my, my vivance live on air. Hi. [00:05:33] Jeff: Hey, Al. Say, say hello to me and to the Overtired listeners. Your name is, your name is mentioned. Uh, your name is mentioned on this podcast regularly, but we never heard your voice, [00:05:42] Brett: Oh, I’m on the podcast. I was just saying [00:05:46] Jeff: sucker. [00:05:48] Brett: All right. Hello to Jeff and Brett and Christina’s listeners. All right. [00:05:55] Jeff: Good to see ya. All right. Now we get to, we get to see Brett’s Vivance kick in, uh, over the course of the podcast. We’ll [00:06:02] Brett: It takes like an hour though. That’s why I used to be prescribed, uh, Vivance and then Focalin, because the focalin, I would take the short acting like it would gimme the immediate, like it kicks in so [00:06:17] Jeff: I see. Yeah. Right, right, [00:06:18] Brett: like 15 minutes and, and you’re good to, you’re good to roll. And then I could take it in the evenings as needed. [00:06:25] Um, if I had to work long days or whatever, and the vivance just kind of was the like, steady, slow, and steady, but turns out , that’s a really bad idea. [00:06:39] Jeff: Yeah. Anything that just jacks you right away is kind of a [00:06:43] Brett: Well, I mean, I love folk and I really do, but as we’ve discussed before, I love it too much. [00:06:49] Jeff: As I recall it is for you as a, as a past cocaine user. It is a little too close to cocaine. [00:06:55] Brett: It is. Mental Health Corner [00:06:56] Jeff: Mm-hmm. , that’s, yeah, that’s no good. You don’t want that. Um, would you like to meet me over here, uh, in the, hold on, let me do a vocal effect. I’m just gonna walk over here to the mental health corner. Um, do you wanna join me over here? [00:07:09] Brett: Hmm. Outta my way. I’ll be right there. [00:07:12] Jeff: Oh, hey, you look great. [00:07:14] Brett: she brought me water to drink my Vince with, but, [00:07:18] Jeff: is [00:07:19] Brett: But it’s, uh, seltzer water. [00:07:21] Jeff: Hmm. Yep, [00:07:22] Brett: now I’ve got the burps, [00:07:24] Jeff: yep, yep. I always take my meds with seltzer water. [00:07:27] Brett: I can’t drink regular water anymore, ever since we got the soda stream. [00:07:31] Jeff: Yeah. [00:07:32] Brett: Like regular water is just too boring for me. I, I seltz eyes, everything. [00:07:37] Jeff: I was in the country somewhere. Don’t remember which one, where, um, the, the waiter came up and said, would you like water with gas I was like, yes, please. The same, the same menu had, um, emaciated chicken, uh, on it, just. [00:07:53] Brett: does that mean? [00:07:54] Jeff: This is the bad translation of, I don’t know what [00:07:56] Brett: Um, of Lean, lean Chicken? [00:08:00] Jeff: You don’t usually see lean chicken on the, on the, on the menu anyway. [00:08:03] Brett: is lean. [00:08:04] Jeff: How you doing? [00:08:05] Brett: I, um, So I am on like week seven of no manic episodes, and I am definitely jonesing for one. [00:08:17] Jeff: Is that a record? [00:08:18] Brett: um, no, a few months back, like I guess a year ago I had a stint about this long. I actually went on for like three months. You can see it in my, my GitHub activity. [00:08:32] There’s like this three month stretch of just like two commits a. And, um, I’m doing a little better now than I was then. Like, um, I’ve, I’ve found a better stable than that, but, but yeah, it has been, it’s been a year, like I was having basically once or twice a month, um, was having like three to five day episodes, you know, rapid cycling. [00:08:57] But um, yeah, this has been a long, long stable for me and. I, uh, I’m doing okay. I, uh, I got, I got the end of the year deadlines to meet, which I’m definitely taking my sweet time with. Um, I’m counting on that A D H D, last minute pressure to get things done. [00:09:25] Jeff: Yeah, it’s a prison [00:09:26] Brett: Yeah. But, uh, but I got my vibes now. Um, I think, I think it’s gonna be a good day. We’ll see. [00:09:37] Jeff: Nice. Well, anything else you wanna report? [00:09:42] Brett: Nope, I think that’s, I think that’s my whole check-in. [00:09:46] Jeff: Um, yeah, I don’t, I, I have a sort of, I’ve had a medication situation in that there was, as we’ve talked about, there was a Adderall slash Vivance shortage. Maybe there still is, but it’s not the case in Minneapolis right now. Um, so I went, I at a kind of period of time when I didn’t have any Vince, and then I was able to obtain some, we’re not gonna talk about that. [00:10:08] I got it through that guy from ftx. He, he traded, he said, if you’ll comb my hair, I will give you Vivance. And I was like, absolutely, let’s do that. Um, so I combed his hair and then they arrested him. So anyway, um, but that, that has run out and there’s just been some kind of insurance issue that my, um, medication manager has struggled to figure out. [00:10:33] And it’s been super frustrating. And I had just a hard couple days of coming off of Vince when I didn’t intend to or mean to. Um, but I’m through that now. Uh, and I mean, I think we’ve talked about this on this show before, but you know, I’m still relatively new. Medications. Like I, I started on sertraline at the beginning of the pandemic, coincidentally for anxiety. [00:10:59] Um, then I was taking like Trazodone for sleep, but that, that just wasn’t right for me. Um, and then with a bipolar diagnosis, I started taking, you know, a pretty heavy cocktail of meds and I’ve definitely learned more than. Ought to need to learn that even slight adjustments in the medication, um, can really throw you off. [00:11:21] And if you’re not really aware or truly present to the fact that you have changed something, um, I have, I have run, you know, I run the risk of like not knowing why I’m in such a terrible mood or why am I like bones ache or like whatever. And then just thinking kind of catastrophizing a little bit about that and then realizing, oh Jesus, okay, that’s right. [00:11:43] I just switched the dosage or just switched whatever. And so I get it now. But, um, I feel like for anybody out there taking medication or if you will one day, like I don’t think you can, Repeat that back to yourself too often. You know, like if there’s a change, let your partner know if you got, you know, [00:12:03] Brett: Do you, do you find in general that you have trouble making connections cause, cause and reaction connections in your life? Um, like for me, like I absolutely, uh, just constantly l will have to point out, well, obviously you’re having stomach problems. You ate this thing yesterday. Or of course you’re in a down mood, you know, you, you just came off a manic episode and your meds changed. [00:12:33] And like she sees these connections for me, that should be obvious. Like they’re pretty, like the next day kind of things happen. Uh, but I don’t, I don’t, I, I have a hard time making those connections and remembering what’s going. [00:12:48] Jeff: I would say that I am just now at the point where I am making those connections. And one thing that was great about that when when I went off five bands was like the second day, I was just super. Agitated and like, I just hated everyone, man. I also tried to go to Costco, which was a mistake, but like I was just really intensely agitated. [00:13:11] I was able to contain it. Um, Which I’m really grateful for, and I was able, the way I kind of describe it is I was able to like, just like hold a tarp over my head, as the rain came down, you know, and just like, walk through that storm and just be like, this isn’t, I mean, it’s real, but it isn’t real. Don’t, don’t turn this into something. [00:13:29] It’s not. This is literally, you know, chemical imbalance in your brain. Um, and it’s only gonna last another day and you’re gonna be okay. This was the first time I was able to really ride it through like that and contain it and not be a grouch around the house or like whatever, you know? Um, so, so yeah. I think I make the connection better now. [00:13:50] It’s more like, like when I took that last Vivance on Saturday, I was very aware. I was like, okay. Here we go. Right? This is the last one, which means tomorrow, this time I might just feel really down or I might just feel really tired and the next day I might just feel super agitated, but it’s, and my bones might ache or something, which seems to happen to me. [00:14:11] Uh, so anyway, that’s it. But it’s, you, you raise an important point is like finding a way to be, how can you be present to the connection? Cause like for me, I don’t know if you’re like this, but if I’m like, if I’m not super. Sort of resourced or like balanced. I really lose track of time. I can forget a few times a day what, what day it is even. [00:14:35] Brett: That’s a common ADHD [00:14:37] Jeff: Yeah. And so when I’m in that state, it, it definitely becomes that much harder to make connections cuz time is all messed up. And so that’s something I’ve been trying to also keep in mind. So. [00:14:49] Brett: I, I never, I never lose track of what time it is, but I definitely lose track of where I’m supposed to be at any given time. [00:14:57] Jeff: I lose that too. [00:14:59] Brett: I, uh, like I can take a nap and I wake up and I know what time it is without looking at my watch. Like [00:15:04] Jeff: yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, right. [00:15:06] Brett: time it is. I just forget that, you know, at 10 o’clock I was supposed to be in a meeting and now it’s 10 30 and I’m just now realizing [00:15:15] Jeff: Yeah. [00:15:15] Brett: that I missed, that. [00:15:17] I missed an important meeting [00:15:19] Jeff: Yeah, I have a, I have that, I mean, to the point of where I’m just embarrassed, where it’s like, I, I have to look at the calendar so many times in a day cuz I, I don’t know if it’s, I don’t know if it’s so much that I forget which I do, or that I don’t trust myself to remember. Right. And so I’m constantly looking at it and, and more than any one normal human should need to look at their calendar when they only have three fucking things on it. [00:15:39] Right? Like for the day , you know? But I don’t know. So it goes, [00:15:45] Brett: I always forget the third thing. [00:15:48] Jeff: What’s [00:15:48] Brett: I was, uh, no, the, like, the third thing on the calendar. I’ll get [00:15:51] Jeff: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:15:52] Brett: and my brain will tell me, oh boo, you made it. You’re done. And I forget the third thing. [00:15:57] Jeff: Shit . And when you and I work together, that’s when either you or I write to the other and say, Hey, can we, uh, move this or move it to tomorrow? And then the other goes, yes. I always love having meetings moved. [00:16:10] Brett: Yes, [00:16:11] Jeff: Every [00:16:11] Brett: yes. Flaking is my favorite [00:16:13] Jeff: Yeah. It’s like a, it’s a love language. [00:16:16] Brett: so mental health corner always, always, uh, segues well into our first sponsor. Um, So I’m gonna take a moment. Christina usually does this read and she does a fantastic job of it because she is a longtime user of the Zocdoc service. Um, so we always trust her to have the right thing to say. Sponsor: ZocDoc [00:16:36] Brett: But I’m gonna take it this week and I’m going to reference the fact that Christina loves this sponsor. If you’re a fan of it, sushi is incredible, but gas station sushi not so much. Finding the right sushi makes all the difference. The same goes for finding the right doctor. With zoc, you can find the right doctor for you in your network and in your neighborhood. [00:16:59] One that makes you feel like you’re in good hands, you’re supported, and you’re heard, even if you’re just telling them about your favorite sushi. Zoc is a free app that shows you doctors who are patient, reviewed. Take your insurance and are available when you need them. 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Then start your search for a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That’s zocdoc.com/ Overtired zoc.com/ Overtired. [00:18:31] Jeff: Boom. [00:18:32] Brett: Do you wanna make it a sponsor block? And go ahead and do the next one. Sponsor: Simplisafe [00:18:35] Jeff: Oh yes. Rock block. Um, simply safe, we’re gonna talk about Simply Safe. Did you know that property crimes like burglaries and package thefts spike over the winter? Certainly true in my neighborhood, especially Kias. People like to take the Kias lately in my neighborhood. That’s why now is the best time to secure your home with award-winning home security. [00:18:58] Simply Safe is the home security system. I recommend to everybody make it your resolution to start the new year with greater peace of mind and safety for you and your family. Here’s why we love it. Simply Safe was named the best home security system of 2022 by US News and World Report, a third year in a row in an emergency 24 7. 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With the top rated, simply Safe App. Stay in complete control of your system. Anytime, anywhere, arm or disarm, unlock for a guest. Access your cameras or adjust system settings. Don’t miss your chance for massive savings on our favorite security system. [00:20:33] Get 50% off any new system@simplysafe.com slash Overtired today. That’s S I M P L I S A F. Dot com slash Overtired. This is their biggest discount of the year. There’s no safe, like simply safe. Okay, I, I have a topic and I don’t really know how, how to gauge our listeners familiarity with this thing. So we’re just gonna a assume little knowledge and we’re gonna talk about bookmarklets in your browser. [00:21:08] Okay. Um, Brett, do you wanna explain what a bookmarklet. Bookmarklets! PopClip! [00:21:13] Brett: A bookmarklet is a bookmark in your browser that instead of going to a webpage, it executes JavaScript in. Line and it can be used for all kinds of things. Um, such as using a bookmarking service, taking the current page and sending it to, uh, an API to create a bookmark, uh, like you would do with Pinboard or back in the day. [00:21:36] Delicious. Um, I make a bunch of bookmarklets that do things like, uh, zap all video ads on a page with a click, uh, open a product hunt link without going through. An intermediary, uh, like to turn, but Product Hunt used to make it a pain in the ass to visit the actual website that the product was for. So I made a bookmarklet that basically bypassed their interstitial page and like little things like that. [00:22:09] And you can, you can use ’em to hack all kinds of annoyances on the web and to add all kinds of features to the. [00:22:16] Jeff: So in my experience of Bookmarklets, the ones that I have loved tend to no longer be effective. So Pinboard is a great example. Insta Paper, same thing because why [00:22:27] Brett: because of, uh, what’s it called? It’s security. [00:22:31] Jeff: content security [00:22:33] Brett: Yeah, that’s it. C s P, um, they’ve basically the, they’ve limited the ability of JavaScript to access external. Webpages and therefore defeated most bookmarklets. You can still hold on adjusting a cat. [00:22:51] Jeff: There’s a cat coming in. [00:22:52] Brett: you can still do a lot of stuff and I still use, like, I have a style Steeler bookmarklet [00:22:59] Jeff: Yes. [00:23:00] Brett: that rips the formatting from any blog or webpage and turns it into like a mark two style. [00:23:09] And it still works. Um, sometimes you have to do a little security bypassing to get local scripts to run, uh, but by hosting them on https s servers and loading them, if they, if they load remote code and you do it over https, you can, t p s you can sometimes work around, but then it’s also, it’s not always browser specific. [00:23:34] Some. Won’t allow cross-site execution of JavaScript so they can’t, the page you’re on won’t allow you to load an external JavaScript. So these days, like I used to host all the bookmarklets I shared, I used to host on a cloud front, uh, SSL based server, and the bookmarklet that I had people install would just be a conduit. [00:24:02] To load the code from the web and that way I could update everyone’s bookmarklets just by updating the code on the web. And the next time they ran it, they would be running the most recent version that works almost nowhere anymore. Uh, these days, if you want a complex bookmarklet to run, you have to actually embed the entire code in the bookmarklet. [00:24:22] Jeff: Okay. That’s what I was gonna ask. So I was confused about that cuz I only actually, I didn’t, I hadn’t thought about it that way. I only thought of Bookmarklets as all of the code is embedded in the bookmark. [00:24:32] Brett: Yeah, no, I used to, I used to use, basically, you, you just inject a script tag into the current document and, and add a source to it, and then trigger it so that it loads the source as if it’s loading into the page that you’re currently on. [00:24:49] Jeff: Yeah. Got it. And so is the, is the limitation now without kind of finding ways to go around it? It’s a limitation. You can act on the page that’s open in your browser, but that’s it. [00:24:59] Brett: I, you can act on the page. It’s opening your browser without importing any external code or sending code to As, like I used to have Bookmarklets that worked with Marky, the Markdown, afi, [00:25:12] Jeff: Yeah. [00:25:12] Brett: it could send the content of the current page to an API that would turn it into markdown for you. Stuff like that has hit all kinds of, like GitHub for example, where most of the stuff I marked down ified was from like Stack Overflow or GitHub. [00:25:28] And both of those sites have cross domain, uh, scripting protection that doesn’t make that accessible anymore. [00:25:36] Jeff: And so essentially it’s, it’s, it’s the world of, of web content and web creation going, Hey, these things aren’t safe. Um, we gotta [00:25:45] Brett: there are valid, there are valid security concerns there, but like in the case of like Marky, what I ended up doing, uh, I don’t know if you know this, but shortcuts on Mac, um, have a URL handler [00:25:59] Jeff: Yes, [00:25:59] Brett: and you can pass, you can trigger them and pass data to them using a url. So I just created Bookmarklets that just pass the content of the current. [00:26:11] Do a little cleanup and pass it to a shortcut that runs, gather the, uh, markdown notifying utility I made. Um, so it does it all locally and without sending to any other sites, uh, which, which you still, you can’t still pull off. [00:26:27] Jeff: right. If you , if you’ve got the time and the, and the mind for to, to knit something with 16 different sizes of yarn. Okay, so I wanted to talk about Bookmarklets for just a minute, and you already started bringing us into what I was interested in talking about next, which is like how you get bookmarklet like behaviors without being able to do bookmarklets as they have been done. [00:26:53] You’ve told us the shortcut example I wanted to bring in pop clip. As an example, which does work on highlighted text in a webpage basically. So there are some not so recent changes to pop clip that I am only now aware of that I’m excited about. E explain. So pop clip, a couple of things. What are some bookmarklet like things you do with pop clip? [00:27:13] Brett: Okay, let’s, let’s describe pop clip at, at its most basic, if you’re familiar with iOS, when you select text, it pops up a little thing with copy paste, et cetera. Look up in dictionary, uh, that little. That little bubble that pops up on iOS is what? Pop clip recreates on the Mac. So whenever you select text in any situation, pop clip pops up. [00:27:38] Its little bubble, uh, it’s, it’s not unobtrusive, but you can just type it away. You can just keep typing and, and, and it’ll go away. Um, but, uh, you can assign any. Any kind of functionality you want into that pop-up toolbar to do things like Camel Case or SN case, your text or look it up on duck dot Go. Or like for me, I have one where I can just highlight any text containing a URL and I can preview that URL in a pop-up window without having to switch from my browser. [00:28:15] Um, it can do insane number of things and I have a whole, I have a whole pop clip extensions. Download on my blog with I think, probably 20 different extensions in it. I actually have a, a gather pop clip extension that does pretty much the same thing as like my bullseye bookmarklet do, uh, pop clip is really good at it can grab raw HTML from a webpage and it can also do its own internal markdown conversion. [00:28:48] My Mark Mountain conversion is, Um, I put, I put a lot more time and effort into accurate markdown conversion of things like tables and definition lists and whatnot than, than Pop Clip has any interest in doing so. Um, so I take the raw H T M L and then feed it into Gather, but I think like my primary use. [00:29:17] Pop clip is surround, like I actually made a whole a pop clip maker, an app that generated pop clip extensions that would surround text with different things. Um, and, and I use it for like critic markup, for example. Like I have a whole extension that just lets you add and remove and modify text, uh, using pop clip to insert critic mark. [00:29:46] Markup. And um, and the thing that they added a while back, but apparently just, or just now touting, is the, the ability to create these like surround and search type, um, pop clip extensions using yammel files, which is fabulous. That’s fantastic. [00:30:09] Jeff: Yeah. Ha. And like shout out to Jay Miller who did a nice little video on that. [00:30:14] Brett: Yeah. Drop Jay’s, drop Jay’s, uh, video in the show notes if you have it. [00:30:18] Jeff: I will. And also we need to have Jay on the show. [00:30:20] Brett: Oh, we totally do. [00:30:21] Jeff: was one of my favorite of the last final season of, oh my God, you’re Systematic was the, the episode with Jay Miller. [00:30:28] Brett: Yeah. Jay, Jay is a great guy. Um, yeah, but I, uh, I even have a better touch tool gesture if I hold down. My index and ring finger and then tap with my middle finger. It will pop up using, uh, AppleScript. It’ll pop up the, uh, pop clip toolbar, even if there’s not a [00:30:53] Jeff: Ooh, [00:30:54] Brett: Um, but a lot of times I make my selections using my keyboard instead of my mouse. [00:31:02] Jeff: Yeah. [00:31:02] Brett: Uh, and pop clip only recognizes when you select text with a mouse. So if I like option right arrow shift to, to select something and then I do wanna run, pop upon it. I can just hold down two fingers, tap with my middle finger and get my, uh, get my pop clip toolbar, which currently has, let’s see, I have Web md, which is one of my extensions that Mark Downies using. [00:31:32] Uh, Aaron, Aaron Schwartz’s, he multi. [00:31:35] Jeff: Rest in peace. [00:31:36] Brett: I have Copy Plus, which, uh, is a copy tool that appends, uh, whatever you copy to the current clipboard selection, which is a built-in function of pop clip, but mine adds new lines the way I want it to. Uh, duck dot go one four commenting text in, uh, html or, uh, or with, with, uh, hashes, uh, word count. [00:32:04] Uh, I have a, [00:32:05] Jeff: yeah. Word count. [00:32:06] Brett: I have an extension for making bulleted and numbered lists, uh, in markdown formatting. So if I select multiple lines, I can just turn ’em into lists. Uh, one for markdown emphasis, one for, uh, collapsing par. Uh, so a lot of times when we put together our, um, our sponsor reads, I copied them out of PDFs that, that really mess with the line breaks. [00:32:33] Jeff: Yeah. [00:32:34] Brett: So I can just select a paragraph and hit my unwrap pop clip extension and it will remove all of the line breaks in the paragraph. Um, and then I, as as mentioned, camel case and Snake case and uppercase and lowercase [00:32:51] Jeff: And random case. You could do random case if you’re, if that’s the, [00:32:55] Brett: speak. [00:32:55] Jeff: if you’re into that kind of shit. [00:32:57] Brett: And then, and then I have one called Slug Gify that will take selected text and lowercase it and hyphenate it and remove invalid characters. [00:33:07] So you can make like a a, a Jekyll blog style slug out of it. [00:33:13] Jeff: That’s awesome. And you know, one, one thing I recommend it for is, so I have colleagues who like aren’t necessarily comfortable in text editors, um, but I would love for them to have the power a text editor gives you to manipulate text. And this is like such an easy way to give them that power. This is great. [00:33:31] People love it. I mean, they have like the featured, I think the featured extension right now is like if you have a list with commas, you highlight it, click, click the extension, and it turns it into just a regular list ordered list, you know? So if you do shit like that and I do like to party with the text I do like it. [00:33:47] Brett: Like a, a lot of, so I have a accommodation of, I run a lot of services. You’ve seen my markdown service tools. You’ve seen all of the services that I create. Um, and some of those have been converting to shortcuts and some of them get converted to mark, uh, pop clip extensions. But basically I’m always using a combination of services and, and pop clip while I’m editing. [00:34:14] And any app that I use that doesn’t play well with services or pop. Uh, I, I give up on very quickly vs. Code, for example, vs. Code does not do a great job of handling input from services like a service processes text, and then replaces your current text with the output of the service vs. Code tends to chunk that up in various ways and, and that has been a major blocking point for. [00:34:48] And using VS code because it doesn’t work with all of the tools that I’m just used to having. [00:34:55] Jeff: Yeah. Right, right. [00:34:57] Brett: Uh, obsidian two Obsidian also uses like an electron based [00:35:01] Jeff: It’s, explain to me why, what it is about being electron based that causes that [00:35:07] Brett: because most of the text editing is done in, uh, a, it’s a web browser. It’s [00:35:13] Jeff: Uh, got it. [00:35:15] Brett: and, and you are. Your, your text isn’t technically being handled directly through a cocoa text field. It’s it’s sub subject to whatever kind of text editor they built in a web kit field, um, which is unpredictable. [00:35:36] Jeff: Yeah. Um, okay. I wanna, I have somewhere I want to go from here, but I’ll have to ask you a question. I have only just noticed that on some of the actions I have loaded, um, there is a little gear. And if I open up the gear, I get some options like show as icon only, which I did not realize was a thing. [00:35:55] And the other one is like obviously with the search you can open it up and put, you know, where do you wanna search or whatever. So it’s also just kind of a nice little second layer to these elegant little things. [00:36:05] Brett: yeah. And. [00:36:06] Jeff: are elegant. [00:36:06] Brett: I don’t know if you can add options with the, [00:36:09] Jeff: That was what I was gonna ask you next. [00:36:12] Brett: with the yammel I haven’t, because I’m adept at making my own pop clip extensions manually. And like a, a regular pop clip extension uses xml. It uses a p list file, uh, to define all of its characteristics and its options and, and where it works. And, and like you can define. [00:36:36] This extension only shows up if these conditions are met and, and things like that, that I’m used to defining in the P list. And I, I have never explored like exactly how much of that translates to the, the YAML extension format. [00:36:55] Jeff: gonna ask you about that too. The idea of this only shows up if certain conditions are met. Um, I don’t, I’ve never seen a place where I have control over that in an extension unless I was writing it. Is that [00:37:06] Brett: No. Right, exactly. Um, it, it’s defined by the extension author and in, in the same document where the, uh, yammel extensions are explained, you can find all of the various keys that you can use to determine where, sorry, we an extension shows. Um, and, and what its result is [00:37:31] Jeff: It seems like this year you’ve embraced shortcuts a little. [00:37:35] Brett: I’m trying, like when I found out that you can shortcuts, if you drag a system service onto shortcuts onto the app, it will do its best to convert your system service to a shortcut. [00:37:50] Jeff: Hmm. [00:37:50] Brett: And Apple is clearly more invested in continuing development of shortcuts than they are in continuing the development of Automator. [00:38:01] Um, like automator, if you, if you add a Shell script option to automator, it still offers you, uh, a, a series of processors. You can have that shell script run in Ruby, Pearl, Python, et cetera, but Apple is no longer embedding those process. In Mac Os and it’s pretty clear to me that shortcuts is the future. [00:38:28] So I am making an effort to, to parlay my knowledge in, in system services, in automator to shortcuts and to make use of, and honestly, shortcuts are more. Like just if then and for loops, like you can’t do that in automator. You don’t have that option. And shortcuts make that very easy. So like I see the benefit of shortcuts and I am kind of working to, to keep up with the kids in this, in this case, [00:39:05] Jeff: The shortcuts kids, the ones that take all the extracurriculars. Just Call Mann, Orchard & Sparks [00:39:10] Brett: Rosemary, gotta keep up with the Rosemary [00:39:13] Jeff: man, that’s not possible. Uh, but it’s a great Rosemary’s, a great North Star [00:39:18] Brett: for sure. I, uh, for anyone who missed it, I filled in for Rosemary on, uh, the, uh, episode of Automators. I think it was the last one that came out. Um, but, uh, but it was just me and David Sparks talking about mostly the stuff I’ve made, but. I, I did my best to fill in for Rosemary on Automators [00:39:41] Jeff: That’s awesome, man. I, I, I owe that Sparks character a lot. I mean, there was a period of time for me, I remember I got laid off. From a public radio job, it was kind of laid out. There was a grant funded project and the grant money ran out. And I didn’t know what I wanted to do and, and what skills I wanted to build. [00:39:58] And at the same time, um, it was really like the, it was really like the David Sparks first wave. You know, he is like putting the books out and he’s, you know, like you two did a book together. Uh, I learned about you through that. Um, and you know, like that was such an. Time in my, in my development as a power user. [00:40:16] Um, it was great [00:40:18] Brett: Yeah, like, so I owe a lot of my, my success in the Mac community to like David, uh, to Merlin Mann and John Gruber and their like interactions and mentions of me early on. But most people I talked to, They heard about me from my guest spots on like Mac Power users and Automators, and Sparks. Sparks has played a major role in, in, in who I am on the On the Mac Internet these days. [00:40:50] Jeff: Well, he, he, I mean, to this day, you know, he speaks your name about, you know, once or twice an episode, but as much as I mentioned Danny, Uh, you know, That’s awesome. Um, okay, the last, so we’ve been talking about these, like this, this whole thing for me is like these elegant little tools. The last one for me is actually just gonna be my gratitude real quick. And then Brett, I wanna do a lightning round with you because you’ve started releasing your favorites. [00:41:18] End of your favorites, okay. You. [00:41:20] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A Grapptitude Spectacular! [00:41:21] Jeff: so my, my gratitude will just kind of follow this idea of these elegant little tools, um, into this great curated directory of like 750 plus Mac menu bar apps. Um, it’s, uh, somebody I wouldn’t know who is this, that they should say who this is cuz that’s a lot of work they put into it. [00:41:39] Um, did a lot of work, uh, organizing all these things into an a website with a really nice interface. Um, and his name is maybe. Uh, L U U K. Um, anyway, it’s in the, it’s in the show notes. So I recommend this as much as a way to see what is bit possible in a menu bar app as what exists. Because I found as I started going through this and clicking the things that were interesting to me, they were almost all no longer developed. [00:42:09] Um, but I don’t think that’s the reason. Uh, to ignore them. I mean, it’s, it’s actually wonderful to have an index of, of no longer active apps because it gives you a sense of what came before. [00:42:21] Brett: Ooh, but there’s a chat G p t menu bar app [00:42:24] Jeff: oh man. [00:42:25] Brett: at the top. [00:42:26] Jeff: I, I have a, I have a dear friend who’s doing some dark magic with, uh, chat G p t right now. So stuff is insane. [00:42:34] Where is it? Where’s the g p? [00:42:36] Brett: It, it’s like number three on page one of the. [00:42:42] Jeff: I see it. [00:42:43] Brett: Recently added [00:42:45] Jeff: Wow, that’s a whole nother episode. I mean, that’s a whole nother episode once a month for the next, you know, three years until something else comes. This seems, this seems, head it. This seems like something that came out of the Pentagon. Chat, G P T Total DARPA DARPA Project. [00:43:02] Brett: Well, and we talked about menu bar X. Uh, that was a, that was a pick a while back. Uh, where you can put like all kinds of little web browser apps into your menu bar [00:43:14] Jeff: Is, is the barrier to creating a menu bar app any lower than for any other kind of app that has to pass [00:43:21] Brett: any lower. No, it might, might actually be a little higher. Um, it takes a little more effort to make a menu bar only app than to make a simple Mac app, um, to, to make a good app of any kind. there, you know, there’s, there’s a barrier. [00:43:41] Jeff: Right. [00:43:42] Brett: if, if you’re, if you’re, if you’re good enough to make a Good Mac app, you’re good enough to make a menu bar app, that’s, it’s about equal. [00:43:50] But, uh, it does take a little more effort to put it menu bar only. [00:43:56] Jeff: Awesome. Well, I’m gonna move us past that cause we’re running. I wanna do the lightning round. Here’s, here’s the rules, Brett. Okay. You get to say, I name the app and you get to say one sentence. [00:44:08] Brett: Okay. [00:44:08] Jeff: Okay. And it doesn’t matter. The sentence can be, uh, how it makes you feel. Or the sentence can be what it does doesn’t matter. [00:44:15] Okay. And we’re gonna start with your list of, um, favorites, uh, your Mac apps favorites. Okay? But then we’re gonna do a super lightning round where you only get two words for your own apps. Okay? you did your favorites, your own projects. All right. You ready? Are you ready? You wanna stretch? You wanna, you know, hit your cough button and make a guttural [00:44:36] Brett: I wish I had more coffee, but I drank all my coffee. We’re just going to, we’re gonna do it. Let’s. [00:44:42] Jeff: we go. This is, these are Brett’s favorite apps of 2022. Uh, one sentence per, here we go. Affinity photo two. [00:44:49] Brett: Finally, uh, it, it’s finally a true competitor to Adobe. Everything is coming into place, [00:44:58] Jeff: Everything is coming to play. Okay, that’s one sentence. Um, or semicolon. Hmm. I think that was a sentence. All right. Uh, kaleidoscope. [00:45:05] Brett: Um, it’s been through many hands. Uh, over, over its lifetime. As far as a Mac Diff app, it is the best you can find. [00:45:19] Jeff: So that was like an M dash and not a period. Are you looking at your fucking blog post? That’s cheating. [00:45:23] Brett: What, okay. [00:45:24] Jeff: it in your glasses. curio, curio. You do whatever you want. [00:45:29] Brett: Curio is, uh, such an amazing app full of surprises and delight. And as far as project management goes, It is project management and brainstorming are curious, strong points and I absolutely love it. [00:45:46] Jeff: Awesome Redx Rx. [00:45:48] Brett: There’s so many regular expression testers and and creators out there, but Redx rx, which looks like weirdly like a Java app is, has all the features I’ve ever wanted, and I’ve never found anything that is as. [00:46:06] Jeff: I’m worried that you’re gonna complete, uh, I’m worried that you’re gonna continue this pattern of using parentheticals as a loophole to keeping it to one sentence. All right. Clean shot x [00:46:16] Brett: The most elegant app on Mac right now. It is. If you need to shoot screenshots or screen video, it does everything exactly the way you want it to. So intuitive, so amazing. So it’s so good. [00:46:35] Jeff: You gotta get these sentences shorter bike [00:46:38] Brett: Bike. Uh, if, if you love task paper, you’re gonna love bike. The best outliner that came out in the last year warp is like, I’m still an I term two guy. I still love I term, but warp adds artificial intelligence command completion. Amazing. Uh, command Line Auto Complete to your terminal. [00:47:07] Jeff: Clean my macx [00:47:08] Brett: Just so Mac Keeper gave a bad name to all of the, uh, Mac cleaning apps, but Mac, uh, clean my Macx is just a down. [00:47:24] Responsible application that will clean and optimize your Mac in a way that is not shady at all. [00:47:33] Jeff: You, you made that one sentence by cheaply using the word, but, um, da Vinci, resolve [00:47:39] Brett: we skipped Mac [00:47:40] Jeff: Oh shit. Mac Updater. Sorry, everybody. [00:47:43] Brett: Man, I love Mac Updater because I don’t have to wait until I launch an app to find out there’s an. I know exactly what apps on my Mac need update at any given time. As soon as an update is available, I know about it and Mac Updater just keeps it all together. [00:48:03] Jeff: Da Vinci. [00:48:04] Brett: Da Vinci resolve. I have ne I I do not do enough video editing to feel comfortable dropping $200 on final cut. [00:48:13] Pro X Da Vinci Resolve has professional level. Video editing capabilities for free. [00:48:23] Jeff: Who to spot? Woo woo [00:48:25] Brett: If you love spotlight, just wait till, wait till you [00:48:29] Jeff: in the world, [00:48:32] Brett: It’s it’s spotlight on steroids. It’s amazing. [00:48:36] Jeff: Choosy [00:48:38] Brett: There are so many apps that will let you use multiple browsers, but Choosy is the oldest and still, in my opinion, the best app for choosing what, what links open in what browser. [00:48:53] Jeff: better touch. [00:48:55] Brett: I don’t think I could possibly summarize better Hutch tool in two sentences, but, but, If you want to automate your machine, your from your track pad to your stream deck to your keyboard, if you wanna make shit happen, better touch tool is is your go-to. [00:49:19] Jeff: Yeah, I mean, in fact, that wasn’t even Brett’s voice. It was AI generated by a, a better touch tool action where you put two fingers on the track pad, you lick the mic and you, and you blink twice and then hit enter on the keyboard. It’s incredible. It’s incredible. All right. Five five left hook mark. [00:49:37] Brett: Uh, hook, hook mark is so hard to describe, but basically if you wanna link together any two things, any, any multiple things on your computer, you’re like a to-do item, a video, A P D F A file. A webpage, if you wanna make it so that you can find related, uh, uh, objects from any of those things, you can use hook bark to hook them together and create networks basically of information. [00:50:10] No matter where they’re located on your driver in the world, uh, you can just hook them together. And it is, it’s a hard to describe application that once you get into. Is just infinitely useful. [00:50:25] Jeff: Okay, listen, you got three left here, but for God’s sake, don’t go longer than the actual text on the website. Uh, MailMate. [00:50:34] Brett: I’m gonna, I’m gonna just quote my website. I’m not sure anything will ever pull me away from MailMate. It’s my email tool of choice power without compromise. [00:50:42] Jeff: thought sex. [00:50:43] Brett: Uh, I use a lot of mind maps and I use a lot of mind mapping apps, and I thought X is still my favorite mind mapping software on the Mac [00:50:56] Jeff: All right, and, and finally dash. [00:50:58] Brett: dash. I use Dash constantly because it offers me instant search of any a p. [00:51:07] Any programming, language, anything I need a cheat sheet for, I can just hit a shortcut and I can type in an abbreviation and find exactly the documentation I’m looking for. [00:51:21] Jeff: All right. We did it. That was great. Now listen, this is the hard one. Okay. And I’m gonna change it cuz we’re, I don’t want you going long like that. Ready? It’s, you get, you get one, one word. [00:51:30] Brett: one word. [00:51:31] Jeff: Yeah. This is just for fun. One word to describe each of your tools from your, um, favorite tools of 2022 that you created. [00:51:39] Okay. [00:51:39] Brett: All right. [00:51:40] Jeff: everyone’s gonna go there, you know, it’s all right. People. We’re just getting people over it. You just give them, give them a word. Okay? Uh, bunch. [00:51:50] Brett: Can I use a hyphenate [00:51:52] Jeff: It’s a terrible, that’s a terrible, we’re gonna give you two words, sponge. [00:51:55] Brett: plain tax automation [00:51:57] Jeff: Hmm. All right. Doing. [00:52:00] Brett: time track? [00:52:01] Jeff: Hmm. Gather. [00:52:03] Brett: Mark donation. [00:52:05] Jeff: You’re doing great. How’s it? [00:52:09] Brett: Build notes. [00:52:11] Jeff: Repeatability? [00:52:12] Brett: There you go. [00:52:13] Jeff: Hmm. Na. Narcotics Anonymous Community. Community, [00:52:18] Brett: 12 steps. Um, no. Uh, command line. One word. Task paper. Two words. Interaction. Three words. [00:52:30] Jeff: All right. All right. Command line task. Good. Search link. [00:52:34] Brett: Instant search, [00:52:36] Jeff: Oh, Hmm. Where do I sign up? Uh, marked two. [00:52:42] Brett: markdown, preview, [00:52:45] Jeff: Uh, envy Ultra on my epitaph. [00:52:53] Brett: markdown, note taking. [00:52:56] Jeff: Boom. Brett, thank you for all that you do and for putting up with my stupid lightning round thing. Um, I know that far before I knew you, I looked forward to these end of year posts. I also, I also checked your site every day to see if there was a new web excursions post. Cause those were always super fun. [00:53:14] So thank you for all that you do and for being, uh, a podcast friend. [00:53:18] Brett: Yeah. Thank you Jeff. [00:53:20] Jeff: Hey, my pleasure, [00:53:22] Brett: Life, life is better for knowing you. [00:53:25] Jeff: Ah shucks. I feel the same. Thank you. It was very kind [00:53:28] Brett: I had a, I, I drove to the cities, the Twin Cities, uh, to have lunch with Rabbi Eric Linder, previous guest. Um, but Jeff’s, Jeff’s household was going through some illnesses that I didn’t want to be exposed to. So I did not get to see Jeff on this last. It was great to see Eric, but uh, but definitely missing you. [00:53:55] Jeff: Influenza A coming through the house. No thank you. Well, I hope you get some sleep, at least [00:54:02] Brett: Yeah. Get some sleep, [00:54:04] Outro: The.

The gang talks about grief and how to support friends who are going through it. There is also talk of professional transitions, search engine occultism, shitty but hilarious passwords, and our favorite hardware. C’mon by won’t you? Sponsor Meet Rocket Money: The app shows all your subscriptions in one place, and then cancels for you whatever you don’t still want. Rocket Money can even find subscriptions you didn’t know you were paying for. You may even find out you’ve been double-charged for a subscription. To cancel a subscription, all you have to do is press CANCEL, and Rocket Money takes care of the rest. Get rid of useless subscriptions with Rocket Money now. Go to rocketmoney.com/overtired. Seriously, it could save you HUNDREDS per year. Podcast Swap: Best Advice Show. The Best Advice Show is your reminder that there are weird, delightful and effective ways to make life slightly and sometimes profoundly better. In every (very short) episode of the show, a different contributor offers their take on making life more joyful, healthful and livable and it’s likely gonna be something you can try today, if you want. The host, Zak Rosen, talks to well known people, like happiness guru Gretchen Rubin and filmmaker, Mike Mills but also his friends and his daughter and his listeners. Show Links Top 200 Most Common Passwords Wave XLR NK65 Olivia Edition Keyboard Stream Deck XL Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jeffreyguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Seriously Though [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Brett: Welcome to Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with, as always, Jeffrey Severances, Gunzel. And Christina Warren. Uh, Jeff, how’s it going? [00:00:18] Jeffrey: I’m trying to match your brightness. I’m, I gotta do some stretches. [00:00:22] Brett: during the countdown, before we start recording, I’m like, all right, I’m gonna, I’m gonna put on a new face, I’m gonna come out bright, I’m gonna come out hard. And, uh, and I just decided to go for it. I am not actually feeling that, but, uh, Christina, how are you? [00:00:37] Christina: Well, okay. Yes. Similar to Jeff. I’m like trying to kind of like, find the energy. He’s like, Hey, I’m so glad to be here. This is, and like, and I can totally do that, but I was like, that doesn’t sound like Fred. Okay. So, no, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, um, no, I’m doing pretty well. Um, there’s, Well, we’ll talk about it, but no, in general I’m doing pretty well. [00:00:56] Um, I, uh, I had, you know, the last week or so off, which was nice. And, um, now I don’t know about YouTube, but it’s like, just kinda like winding down before the end of the year. Um, so there’s a lot of meetings and projects and stuff, but it’s, you know, just kind of trying to get, get things squared away before, before the holidays. [00:01:14] So I’m doing pretty well. [00:01:16] Jeffrey: time off [00:01:18] Brett: Yeah. [00:01:19] Christina: indeed. [00:01:21] Jeffrey: Sounds like a wild few weeks before [00:01:22] Brett: Well, so we all had last week off. It was, uh, I, we just needed, we needed a week off. We did. It was [00:01:29] Jeffrey: the whole podcast break on the beach, [00:01:33] Brett: you serious? [00:01:33] Jeffrey: No, I’m joking, [00:01:34] Christina: Damn. I was, I’m [00:01:35] Jeffrey: don’t have to record the podcast this week. I’m going to the beach. [00:01:39] Brett: So I found, I found the, the style of music I want, uh, for the mental health corner. And I posted it in our discord. Let me just send you real quick. Um, copy link, and I’m gonna drop this in our chat and you guys can just hear this so that it puts you in the mood, uh, for, for what’s about to happen. [00:02:06] Jeffrey: It depends on my mental health status. [00:02:11] oh shoot. It went to a, oh, can you hear that? Sorry. But it actually, it went to a, I’m in Chrome so I’m not signed in, which it means I got this big ad and I was like, wow. Banging. Na na. Yeah. No, I’m doing pretty good. I was kind of depressed. [00:02:27] Brett: it’s uh, it’s EMBAs and Cassinet. [00:02:30] Jeffrey: I remember you sent me that [00:02:31] Brett: Just with the cast and nets going. Um, can I tell you before we head into the mental health corner, I, uh, I did a guest spot, Rosemary was sick for, uh, automators with uh, David Sparks and he brought me in to fill in for Rosemary. And I went ahead and just told anyone who’s listening, cuz I’m used to, you know, our relatively modest listener numbers. [00:03:04] I’m like, anyone who’s listening who wants into the n b ultra beta just, you know, drop me an email and. Holy shit. They have a lot of listeners, because I have, I have spent the last, I have spent the last five days just constantly fielding emails. Thank God for text expander and like, just like pu push pushing people towards like the private email, beta list, um, beta email list. [00:03:33] But man, I, it, it’s, it’s, it’s fascinating to me that some shows have so much more appeal than we do. I feel like we’re very appealing. I just, I don’t understand why, why we don’t have that kind of audience. [00:03:51] Jeffrey: Yeah, well it’s a very different kind of show. I mean, I feel like having listened to that show quite a long time, David established a sort of formula that um, is always met pretty precisely. And I think that as having been someone who listened for like a year or so, it was a phase in which I just wanted to hear people talk about that sort of thing. [00:04:16] It was Mac Power users in this case. Right. Um, And the thing that can, that, that is interesting to me about podcasts, and this is in no way a critique of David Sparks or either of those shows. Um, is that like, how long can you do the formula before you feel like, oh, I just cycled through for the 50th time. [00:04:39] Go to this app, go to this app, go to this app, go to this app, go to this type of thing, [00:04:43] Brett: Yeah. Like, I mean the, his listenership is crazy. [00:04:47] Christina: Yeah, [00:04:48] Jeffrey: Well, Rosemary though, is, is someone who just brings things fresh every time. I feel like once Automators started going, it felt like with Rosemary, there’s just no end to what she can contribute, you know? Cuz she’s, I think she’s more actively like developing and playing and, you know, um, and so I think that’s a, that was a great call as a, as a cohos. [00:05:12] Brett: would say that David bringing Rosemary on was equivalent to us bringing Jeff on [00:05:19] Jeffrey: And it got you just as many new listeners, namely my friend Daniel [00:05:26] Brett: Hi Dan [00:05:28] Jeffrey: Um, well and another thing that’s interesting about that podcast to me is I think of it cuz I do still listen once in a while I kind of, I always check out to see what the topic is, although I have not looked to see that you were there. Um, listening to his podcast is almost like listening to the classic rock station where you’re like, I don’t really need this stuff anymore. [00:05:46] But it’s kind of fun to hear this song once in a while. [00:05:49] Christina: It, it, it, it, it’s nice. [00:05:51] Brett: Play. Play Me the Hits. [00:05:52] Christina: Yeah, exactly. [00:05:53] Jeffrey: Play me the hits. [00:05:54] Christina: it’s also, it’s like a, it’s like, it’s like comfort. It’s like comfort tv, you know what I [00:05:58] Jeffrey: Yeah, totally. [00:05:59] Christina: Like, just have it on the background. You’re like, even if I already know a lot of this stuff, and even if I’m not necessarily learning, um, maybe I am like, like a grant listens to old Car Talk episodes all the time. [00:06:09] And like, that’s a show that has, you know, hasn’t been on the, uh, air, I don’t know how long, but they still, you know, re-release, um, episodes on, on npr, I think, uh, or maybe it’s just in their app, but, you know, um, one of the, one of the guys, one of the brothers passed away a few years ago and, and before that even they’d like retired. [00:06:28] But like, that’s another example of a thing like that, you know, he can like listen to an old episode from like the nineties, you know, and still enjoy the banter and the trying to figure out what’s wrong with the car and, and all that stuff, you know? And I, I feel like that’s, that’s kind of similar with what you’re [00:06:42] Brett: didn’t, didn’t cl click or clack. Didn’t one of them die? [00:06:46] Christina: Yes, that’s what I said. Yeah. One of them died. Um, uh, and they’d stopped before that because I think he had, um, Alzheimer’s or [00:06:53] Brett: Oh, that’s sad. [00:06:54] Christina: It’s very sad. Yeah, [00:06:55] Jeffrey: also, like, um, also like classic rock stations accidental tech podcast, which is one that I, I used to listen to Faith. Now when I put it on, it’s again like classic rock. I’m waiting for Van Halen to come on. And Van Halen in this case is John Syracuse. Like I just . I want to hear [00:07:13] Brett: When are we gonna get Syracuse on [00:07:15] Christina: we do. No, we do, we need to have him on, like, honestly, and, and this would be one where I would just be happy to just like sit back and let the man talk because, [00:07:22] Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah. [00:07:23] Christina: know what I mean? Like, [00:07:24] Jeffrey: the man critique [00:07:25] Christina: yes. [00:07:28] Brett: we’ll just, we’ll come up, we’ll come up with a prompt. We’ll just, we’ll, we’ll throw out a prompt and just let ’em go. [00:07:34] Jeffrey: I’m a huge fan. [00:07:35] Brett: I do that with Christina all the [00:07:37] Jeffrey: a fantastic mind and, and delightful to listen to. Yeah. [00:07:42] Brett: All right. So, uh, Mental Health Corner [00:07:44] Jeffrey: Oh, are we supposed to be playing our Mabas for Mental Health Corner? [00:07:47] Brett: we’re just gonna have to imagine it for now, unless someone un, unless whoever’s editing this episode feels like in interjecting, we’re just gonna roll into imagine in your head. Fifties martini music, MABAS casts. Um, I’m not even gonna try to hum it. You, you know what I’m talking about. [00:08:11] You know, you know, the genre, um, who, who, who wants to, who wants to do a mental health check-in? [00:08:18] Jeffrey: Hmm. [00:08:20] Brett: All right. Fine. I will. [00:08:21] Christina: Okay. [00:08:22] Brett: It has been over six weeks now since I had a manic episode, and I think that’s a good thing. Um, I, overall, I am, I haven’t been manic in a while, but I also, I feel like I’m finding that new stable that I’ve been talking about. Um, I’m not, I’m not suffering from most symptoms of depression. [00:08:49] Um, I’m functioning at a higher level than, than I usually am in periods. Term stable. Um, and, and this feels like I might be finding a new normal. It’s still not the like, uh, energy level that I really would like to think normal could be for me. Um, I really am missing that like manic energy right now. I really, really want it, like to the point where I’m tempted to like go off my stimulants for a few days and [00:09:26] Jeffrey: No way [00:09:27] Brett: Start ’em back up just to like trigger. Yeah. But I’m, I’m being smart. I’m being smart. I’m not doing that. But, um, I’m, I, there’s still, there are still things I need to figure out before I can consider this sustainable because my, my personality will try to train, wreck this pretty quickly, um, and, and try to get back to a creative space that I feel like I’m lacking. [00:09:54] So that’s kinda where I’m at. I’m, I’m doing all right. Uh, my, my, the leader of my group at work got, they call it rift reduction in force. [00:10:08] Jeffrey: Rift. [00:10:09] Brett: she got Rift, uh, taken away from us, um, and left us in kind of a lurch and, and because it was a rift, they can’t just replace her job position. So now we’re all reporting to one level higher, and it’s a new guy they brought in from Microsoft and none of us know him yet. [00:10:32] And, uh, we have a whole bunch of, everything’s very uncertain. Like we don’t know what the situation’s gonna be. We don’t know if what we’re doing now is going to continue. [00:10:44] Jeffrey: many management changes does that make for you in just a little over a year? I think. [00:10:48] Brett: Uh, 3, 3, 3 major management shifts in the year I’ve been at Oracle. Um, and I guess this is just kind of par for the course. I haven’t been in corporate America for a long time, but. [00:11:02] Christina: Uh, it’s a lot, but I’m trying to think. I mean, I think I had five one year, so. Five or six. But that was, that was a crazy, like, that was a ridiculous situation, um, in all those cases. And so, and I, I’m not like defending it in any way. So three is a lot, three major ones. And, and in those cases, I was at least still in the same team. [00:11:25] Like, we didn’t have, like, [00:11:26] Brett: Yeah. [00:11:27] Christina: well, one time I did get reorged, but, but, but like, I was still, even then, I was still like in the same group. Whereas it seems like you’ve had a, a different reporting structure and some other different things happen. [00:11:38] Brett: The interesting thing has been that I have stayed in the same group the whole time, but every, everyone else in the group has moved. So my, I’m, I’m in the same group, but with all new people, [00:11:50] Christina: what I mean. Yeah. So, so, so, so it’s, it’s effectively the same thing. Whereas with [00:11:55] Brett: Yeah. It’s. [00:11:55] Christina: there were some changes, but for the most part it wasn’t like I had like a new, you know, like I had new colleagues, you know what I mean? So, [00:12:04] Jeffrey: Wow, man. Corporate gigs. [00:12:08] Brett: Right. [00:12:09] Christina: Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s a whole other, uh, it’s a whole other universe. It’s, it’s hard to kind of explain, like, if you haven’t worked in it, then going into it for people who haven’t had that, especially, you know, someone like you, Jeff, who like you’ve worked in, in journalism, which even corporate journalism is still different than like, uh, corporate jobs, I think in most cases. [00:12:28] Like, maybe it’s different if you worked at like a very, like, buttoned up organization, [00:12:33] Jeffrey: for me it’s, I have some of that experience cause I’m kind of like a special teams guy, , you know, and those are the ones that get the managers swept out, you know, switched out [00:12:41] Christina: Oh, totally. Totally. Yeah. But, but, but, [00:12:43] Jeffrey: not barely at all. I’ve had that experience once. [00:12:46] Christina: but you’ve also, because you’re special teams, you’re kind of like, you know, that you’re kind of like the get in, get out kind of guy, right? Like that’s kind of like part of the gig, right? Is that it’s, you know, you go in or, or you’re working on your thing and, and you know, it can change around you. [00:12:59] Um, At least, at least that, that’s how I felt about it. It’s like the uncertainty or the chaos is kind of like a feature, not a bug in some [00:13:08] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. [00:13:09] Christina: Whereas in theory, I think in, in corporate life, although the number of reorgs that big companies have, it’s crazy. You think that you’re doing it for the stability and then you kind of realize once you’re in it, oh no, there’s not, like there’s, people wonder sometimes, like how w with really large organizations, and, and I’m going to be generalizing here, but I think this is probably true, uh, largely, but, but it is still a generalization. [00:13:36] Like people wonder, like, why does it take big companies so long to introduce new things or to do stuff? And this is why, because when you. You know, a hundred thousand people or whatever in an organization, you’re going to have a natural attrition of talent. You’re going to have new people coming in and out with different strategies who want to do their own way of doing things and have their brilliant idea of wanting to restructure stuff. [00:13:57] And every time you have a reorganization, and then people have to like get back up to speed and figure out what they’re doing. And like, that takes time. And like that, that leads to delays and, and stuff getting released. Like that’s, that’s why historically, I mean not, not always, but historically why larger companies are slower to respond to things than smaller ones because they’re just, you know, so much like it when you’re trying to turn something like that. [00:14:23] Especially if you do it multiple times, you have a lot of people who are just kind of getting paid to sit around and not really know what they’re doing. [00:14:28] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Right, right, right. uh, Brett, you brought that up as part of your mental health check-in, is that, I can’t remember how it, how we got into it. [00:14:39] Brett: Yeah, well, so my mental health right now is very much wrapped in, wrapped up in this stress of being required, like we’re on two week sprints now, where we have to produce new content every two weeks and. Like that is hugely taxing on my mental health because I just, I, I, it’s, it’s very laborious to me. [00:15:03] Jeffrey: how do those kinds of posts perform? [00:15:05] Brett: I mean, we, we have a ton of like tutorial content that is useful and evergreen, but ultimately not high traffic properties. [00:15:18] Uh, it’s a whole, a whole ecosystem of tutorial content. That’s great. If you’re searching for the exact term that it’s about, uh, you’ll find it, but it’s not exactly like announce it on the social channels and it’s people swarming to read it. [00:15:35] Christina: right? No. And, and that’s not really the goal. I mean, I think usually the goal of that content is one, yes, if you can get your SEO good enough with some of your keywords, people can find it and you can cut down on support costs. But usually the bigger thing is like when you have, um, partners, uh, and meaning like sales teams and ecosystems trying to find solutions for people and, and, and they’re trying to integrate stuff, like, it’s useful to have those examples and that tutorial stuff there when people are trying to figure things out. [00:16:01] Cuz the people who are, you know, really trying to implement stuff, or maybe they’re, again, consultants, it’s really common. They go in, they go out of something and they’re like, okay, I need to implement this. All right, what does your documentation say? And, and that’s, um, going to, in some ways maybe save the, the, the partner teams from having to create one off content that doesn’t live anywhere else or have any longer standing purpose. [00:16:26] Brett: have I told you what Warp is doing? The terminal warp? [00:16:30] Jeffrey: yeah, yeah. You are, you’re writing for them, [00:16:32] Brett: Yeah. [00:16:32] Jeffrey: I just watched a long tutorial [00:16:34] Christina: I love [00:16:34] Jeffrey: kind of fell in love. [00:16:36] Brett: they’re, they’re creating content. They’re doing like the SEO research to figure out what people. [00:16:44] Jeffrey: And just for the listeners out there, that search engine Occultism, [00:16:47] Brett: exactly. Seo. Um, they’re, they’re figuring out exactly what, what terminal users are trying to figure out, and they’re building content around that. And it’s not even warp specific like the content they’re building. It, it, it very clearly answers the question. For example, how do I do recursive change mod, uh, and how do I use the change mod command recursively? [00:17:14] And any search for that is gonna wind up on this Terminus page they’ve created, which then links to warp and it’s great content. They’re doing a really good job of creating good content. Like that’s what anyone, that’s the content is king philosophy, [00:17:31] Christina: No, it works. That’s the digital lotion approach. Like, that’s what, uh, which I guess really was the slice host approach, um, which was, you know, creating really good tutorials that were genuinely great, whether you’re using digital lotion or not. And then that bolts an affinity, builds brand awareness. [00:17:47] You see the site a number of times and you’re going, Hey, I need a V Ps. Who am I gonna try? I imagine that the similar thing will happen with Warp. Hey, I, I’m looking at a new terminal tool, you know, maybe, maybe this isn’t enough. What should I try? Oh, well, you know what? This, this, this warp stuff has been really useful. [00:18:01] Let me give that a shot. [00:18:03] Brett: Yeah. I think it’s really smart. [00:18:05] Jeffrey: And like, I mean, a really, my like, small example is setup, started doing, you know, how do you clean install, you know, when there’s a new operating system then there you are. I, I was wondering if you two probably understand this better than me, but in terms of seo, so if a, if a, if a company that’s making a terminal, that’s the main thing they’re doing right? [00:18:22] Um, is also posting on all this stuff that is Unix based or whatever else. Does the fact that they at the top level are a terminal site, give them extra SEO juice when then they have things about change modification and stuff like that? I don’t, how does that occultism work in that case? [00:18:39] Christina: I have no idea. [00:18:40] Brett: It’s fucking black magic to [00:18:41] Jeffrey: I know, man, Danny Sullivan’s here with [00:18:44] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna say Danny Sullivan would know, uh, I think he’s, I think he went to Google, actually, but, uh, but yeah, no, he would know. I have no idea. Although I do know that that’s something like Microsoft struggled with a lot and um, GitHub I think does a better job. And Microsoft had a whole team where they have a whole team involved, but how good they were, I think depends on what product they’re working at. [00:19:05] But we had things where then this was sort of embarrassing. Like I remember one time like, maybe I shouldn’t say this. Nah, fuck it, I’ll say it. Um, we were. You know, writing, you know, um, cause we helped a lot with documentation and Azure stuff and, and a guy on our team, Thomas, who he’s no longer a developer advocate, but he still works at Microsoft. [00:19:21] He’s on one of the product teams. He was an mvp, uh, when we hired him. And MVPs are basically like, they’re kind of like community members who are maybe given early access to things. What they, they help out in the community and, and they, you know, um, uh, are kind of like our, our superfans uh, developers. Um, Google has, has a program to, GitHub has one, most, most companies have these sorts of programs. [00:19:47] And his blog, because he continued blogging after he got the job, would often rank higher than the official documentation when you would be searching for how to do something in Azure. Like, it was crazy that his blog would rank naturally higher in, in SERP than the freaking docs would. And I was, and I, I, like, I was trying to, I, I like. [00:20:08] We were, we were talking about the problems with that one time, and I wasn’t on the SEO team, but I kind of like went off on it. I was in a group meeting and I was like, you cannot say that the SEO team has it together. When Thomas’s blog ranks higher consistently, it’s like clearly, [00:20:21] Jeffrey: Hm. [00:20:21] Brett: the authority score for my personal blog is insane. Like if I write about a topic for a company I’m working for, my post will show up ahead in Google and in duck dot go. Um, there’s something like I have built a trust score. I don’t understand how all of these scores work, but like my, my blog, if it matches the right keywords, I can rank higher than major corporations and it’s kind of nuts. [00:20:55] Christina: That’s cool. [00:20:57] Jeffrey: We’ve seen it happen when, uh, we’ve been working together and trying to solve some problem, and you search something and you’re [00:21:02] Christina: and then you find like Brett’s [00:21:03] Jeffrey: I wrote about this [00:21:05] Christina: oh yeah, I wrote about this. Here’s where it is. I [00:21:07] Jeffrey: it’s also kind of what happened to you by going on automators, right? Like it, it, that’s a much more direct, kind of mechanical version of what happens with seo, but it’s just like that authority score. [00:21:17] I forgot about that. I remember back in the day, uh, we were always like, I, when I worked at a magazine, Always shooting to get like a, a laughing squid, uh, link or like, you know, [00:21:27] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:21:28] Jeffrey: maybe obviously [00:21:29] Christina: the Holy Grail. Yeah. The holy Grail was, is always, was always, um, if you could get a, um, a Drudge Report link. [00:21:37] Brett: Sure. [00:21:38] Jeffrey: Oh yeah, I got those. Hell [00:21:40] Christina: yeah. Those, those, [00:21:41] Jeffrey: a major source of traffic from my blog, [00:21:43] Christina: yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? If you can get a Drudge, drudge link, like [00:21:47] Brett: Do you remember [00:21:48] Christina: wow. Yes. Uh, R [00:21:51] Jeffrey: I had a falling out with Dig when I was a magazine editor. I realized that they were try, I realized, and this was just so naive of me, but I realized that in our conversations to talk about how we might use dig, and this was already in like third generation dig in like 2011 or something. [00:22:07] Maybe it was second generation dig, but it took me a long time to realize that the, what they were suggesting was that I’d pay them to show up higher in their results. Which like, I was so naive about it that I was like, I refused to do this. I like got super punk rock. I’m like, fuck no man, I trust dig links, [00:22:24] It was a very ugly argument. [00:22:26] Christina: funny. [00:22:26] Jeffrey: But, or like Buzzfeed was like that before they got super scammy, uh, you know, like ad wise. Um, that, that used to really matter, man. [00:22:35] Brett: have either of you ever been fire balled? [00:22:37] Jeffrey: When Gruber gets you. [00:22:39] Christina: your site goes down. [00:22:40] Jeffrey: Yeah, no, I was never writing on that stuff. [00:22:42] Brett: had, I’ve had a couple of blogs crashed by Fireballs. [00:22:47] Christina: personal blog, um, stuff that you’ve written about, You know, um, for, for two or Mashable or Gizmoto have been linked, but never my personal stuff, which thank God, although that would’ve, that would’ve always been a goal, right? Like, that would’ve been great, but Yeah. But being Fireball or like, uh, what was it slash out effect that I think that was the [00:23:05] Jeffrey: Oh slash Jesus. [00:23:06] Christina: effect. [00:23:06] And now it’s like the Hacker News, you know, thing or, yeah, [00:23:10] Brett: Yeah. But I, I have found in general, blogs are more resilient these days. Getting a Hacker News link will rarely [00:23:18] Jeffrey: Although I will [00:23:19] Brett: a blog. [00:23:20] Jeffrey: that it is so mu, it is very much common that you go to one of the top hacker news things and you go to that blog and there’s a paragraph just like, sorry, wasn’t expecting that traffic things are a little crazy right now. [00:23:32] Christina: Yeah. There’s like, I’m sorry, this is just a static page because I didn’t know. Stop yelling at me. Nerds. [00:23:39] Jeffrey: I did the right her thing. I made a static page. Uh, yeah. That is good stuff. Anyone else wanna mental health? [00:23:46] Christina: Um, I kind of wanna talk about this, but I kind of don’t. It’s sort of, um, my, my mother-in-law’s, uh, health is not, um, good right now at all. And, um, and so, um, grant is really struggling with that, and I’m really trying to be supportive, but, um, I’m sure I’ll have like more things to say about that, um, as things progress. [00:24:09] But, uh, that’s, that’s kind of been like a, a topic. It is a hard thing. And, um, uh, you know, she’s been in declining health for a while, but, you know, she, I think everybody is now realizing, you know, that, that, that the end is, is coming and, and it, that’s difficult. [00:24:25] Brett: Let’s talk about your mental health in this though. Do you find it, do you find it difficult to be supportive of someone else in a situation that doesn’t maybe directly affect you, like it’s not your mom? Uh, so you have empathy or, or sympathy, uh, for Grant. Do you find it difficult to be the, I I’m asking not because of any judgment on you, because I do personally myself find it difficult to be a really good partner in situations like [00:24:59] Christina: Yeah, no, I, no, I struggle cuz I don’t know exactly what to do. Right? Like, there’s a feeling of of helplessness of of, of not knowing exactly what to do because my instinct always is to try to solve a solution and, and fix things. And there’s not much I can do here. Right? Like we are, you know, 2,500, we’re 3000 miles away. [00:25:20] And, um, you know, he, he has a flight out that he’s going to go see her. I, I really pushed him to go see her. I’m, I’m glad that I did like, book him a flight for Thanksgiving. He wasn’t going to go. And I was just like, no, you’re going. And, and I went to Atlanta and he went to Jacksonville. Um, and, and he saw his mom and, and that was really good. [00:25:39] And he’s, he’s flying. Next week. And I think his, his flight is, is for two weeks. And, um, I’ll probably join him for, for a day or, or, or or two. Um, but I won’t be there the whole time. Um, but, and, and obviously I’ve, and I’ve told him like, look, if, if something, you know, changes suddenly, you know, we’re on a plane as soon as that needs to happen. [00:26:01] And, and I’ll be there like regardless. But yeah, I, I, I, I struggle because in this case, their relationship is, is better than the relationship that he had when he, when, when, when his dad died. That was really difficult. And, and, um, I wasn’t as good of a partner as, as I think he needed me to be. But I was as good of a partner as I, as I could be at that time. [00:26:24] But I, I really didn’t know what to do in that time. Cause I, I’d met his dad twice and he and his dad had a really complicated relationship and I wanted to be supportive, but. I didn’t know how to be in, in the way that would be useful to him. I think I can be more helpful here because I know his mom, I love his mom. [00:26:41] And, um, this is, um, it, it’s just, it’s a different situ. He and his mom have a different relationship. It’s just a little bit different scenario. But yeah, like you, I still struggle. I don’t know exactly what to do and like, you know, um, what, you know, like, yeah, it, it’s, it’s, it’s a challenge because like I, I know, um, how to be supportive, like with my mom. [00:27:06] Like when, when her parents died and when her sister died, like I, I knew what to do. Um, even though, you know, I, I didn’t know what to do, but I knew how to be supportive. I knew me. Just being there was, was enough support. But in a situation like this, there is a lot of uncertainty and then confusion and then you don’t wanna make it about you because it’s not about you, but you wanna be supportive. [00:27:30] But then, you know, there’s also. You know, the, the, the grief that even though she’s not my mom, you know, you go through as well. So it’s just, it’s, it’s a, it’s a struggle. [00:27:39] Brett: Yeah, because it’s not a lack of empathy. Like you feel it, I can see it in your face right now. You’re feeling this and you’re, and you’re relating it to all of your own personal experiences. But I, yeah, I, I hear what you are saying. I would say in my experience, Jeff is way better than the two of us [00:27:59] Christina: I agree. [00:28:00] Brett: at, at this kind of [00:28:02] Christina: I totally [00:28:02] Jeffrey: am not. I am not, [00:28:04] Brett: Jeff, Jeff. Jeff Will, when Jeff knows that something is up for either of us, he will check in just randomly. [00:28:12] Christina: you do it so well. Like, like, okay. Like I’m in a situation right now, which is very different from grants, but I’m also kind of struggling with, and, and I’m, I’m, the way I’m handling that I think is the right way, but I don’t know, is, is, is a friend of mine’s father, um, Right before Thanksgiving, went into the hospital, um, completely unexpected and turned out that he had some sort of, um, autoimmune thing and, um, he’s not gonna make it. [00:28:38] And, and, uh, is completely unexpected. And, um, and she’s, she’s younger than me, so like, this is a total shock. And I, I don’t even know what to, and, and she and I like, were friends with like, not super close, right? So like, I don’t even know what to say to this. It’s, it’s similar. Um, a a girl I worked with very closely for years, her husband died unexpectedly over the summer while she was, while the f whole family was on vacation, he had like a, it was awful, awful right before her, her, um, her youngest, uh, second birthday, like, just fucking terrible. [00:29:11] Like, I, I cannot imagine a worse scenario in my life. Right? And, and I reached out to her a lot and, and donated money and have continued to check in and, and, and share things with her and talk. But like, I don’t even know what to, but what do you even say? What do you even do? Like, how do you even be like a person there and, and, and, and it’s, you know, you, you wanna be supportive, but for me, I’m just like, I, you know, I want people to know that I care that I’m there for them, but like, what do you even say? [00:29:40] What do you even, or should you say anything? You know, like, I don’t [00:29:44] Jeffrey: I, my, um, I, two years ago or so, I found my mom nearly dead on her bedroom floor. Uh, and she had been unconscious for like three days and was in a coma for like two weeks. And, um, and I’m an only child and she’s single, so it was just really me there. I mean, she has tons of siblings, Catholic family and everything, but like, this isn’t necessarily even super helpful, but I’ll say that, like with the two things that I realized being on the other side of things, I, I hadn’t been in something so dire before, you know? [00:30:20] Um, it was not clear she was gonna live and all this stuff. And, uh, and she’s fine now. Um, But anyway, people that texted me or called me and left a message and said, there is no pressure to respond. I just wanna say, I’m thinking of you, da, da, da. Right? Like that line, no pressure to respond. You don’t need to respond, I just want you to know whatever. [00:30:42] Like, there were two different kinds of people really, that, that, that message me or phone or called me One, were the people that said that. And the other were people that just got a little too involved, you know? Um, wanted to relate my story to their story, wanted to, you know, whatever. And I’m, I was just, my brain was just [00:31:00] Christina: not there. Absolutely. [00:31:01] Jeffrey: I don’t wanna talk right now, , and I’m not, this is not this, this trauma is not an invitation for yours. [00:31:07] Christina: Exactly. Well, no. Well, well, no. Well, that, well, that, that’s always the thing. Right? And, and I actually, it’s funny you say that. I said that exactly to Samantha. I was like, you like when her husband died? I was like, you do not need to respond to me. I just want you to know I’m thinking of you. But, but, sorry, sorry. [00:31:20] Go on. So, [00:31:20] Jeffrey: No, I think that’s powerful. And then the other one is, is fucking GrubHub cards. Uh, Uber Eats cards, whatever, like I know do. So I, even just recently, we had a little medical thing in our family and there were a couple people that just sent us those cards and man eaten off of a card. Um, somehow, even though you don’t really give a shit that you’re spending money, right, in a certain sense, but it’s just such a nice, easy thing that feels like way more than you’d think it would. [00:31:47] You know, I would’ve never guessed until I had that experience. And so now I try to like, you know, throw, throw a card their way, get some people to put money on it, whatever that, and just saying, you don’t need to respond, but I’m thinking of [00:31:59] Brett: I do better with people going through grief. I have had enough people reach out to me and help me with grief that I actually have learned how to appropriately help someone with grief. And in exactly the way you’re talking about, like, not making it my own, but like offering like, Hey, I, I, I know what you’re going through. [00:32:22] Here’s, uh, a book or a GrubHub guard or et cetera. And, and then I’m gonna leave you alone and, and if you wanna reach out, I’m here for you. It’s when people are going through, uh, end of life stuff, when people are going through major medical situations with loved ones that I’m not as good. . Like, I don’t, I don’t know how to be there for them without being in the way. [00:32:52] And it, it’s, it’s, it’s tough for me. I don’t know why. [00:32:56] Jeffrey: I feel like it’s the same, it’s the same advice. Like [00:32:59] Christina: Yeah, that’s [00:33:00] Jeffrey: I ha having been only on the side of my mom, like basically I didn’t know if she was gonna be a vegetable or whate, whatever. Like, I, I was realizing constantly like, wow, this doesn’t feel like I thought it would, this doesn’t feel like, I assume people feel when they’re going through this, you know, you, you still feel just enough like yourself that again, a thing, like a meal card or just a note like, Hey, I’m just thinking of you really pops through. [00:33:25] Christina: Oh no, it is because, cause it is, well, I mean, if anything like, like for instance like with Grant’s mom Grant is a little bit different. Like I feel like I can, I can probably help. Or do do the right things, you know, to, to my friend who, you know is, is losing her father. Like, that’s awful. Um, but, but I feel like I can be supportive in the right way. [00:33:45] Is there, it’s, it’s difficult when it’s like your partner because it, it, it, it just, it it is, [00:33:51] Jeffrey: God, totally. Yeah. And I don’t mean to be addressing it [00:33:53] Christina: Oh no. Oh, I know, I know you don’t. I know, I know you are. I’m just saying like, for me, I think I struggle with that. But to your point, like it is still grief, right? Like, because when you’re watching someone decline, you know what’s coming. [00:34:05] And even if they get better, it’s still grieving for like, you’re still going through that process because you don’t know what’s going to happen next. Right? Like [00:34:13] Brett: sense. [00:34:14] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. [00:34:15] Brett: can’t send them teardrop soup until someone has passed. [00:34:19] Christina: it Exactly. Right. That’s the thing, [00:34:20] Brett: Or Tear soup. Tear soup. That’s the book. Mike Rose sent me that book, uh, tear Soup. Um, and when I was grieving for, when I lost my pit bull and because honestly pet deaths have, like, I’ve lost a lot of friends, I’ve lost family. [00:34:40] Like a lot of people in my life have died, but nothing has ever hit me as hard as the pets I’ve lost. Um, cuz I don’t have kids. So I’ve ne I’ve never, I’ve never, I’ve never come close to dealing with the loss of a child that I can’t imagine. [00:34:56] Christina: No, I think that that would look on the scale. That has to probably be, I, I don’t even know. Right. Like [00:35:02] Brett: I can’t even fathom. Uh, but like, but, but Mike sent me tear soup and that. I, I cried when I read it and immediately was nothing but grateful. And now when I have friends in grief over any of, of any kind, I, I go, go to Amazon and I ordered them tier soup. [00:35:28] Christina: Yeah, no, and I used your advice, I’ve actually sent that to a couple of people and for, for, for Pets and I, and it, and it’s, uh, it’s such a good book and it, it’s wonderful. Um, but yeah, but that’s the thing, right? Yeah. You can’t send something like that until laughter the person is gone. But you can send them, like when they’re in the hospital. [00:35:45] The, the GrubHub thing, that was a great reminder. We, Samantha, that helped a lot with, with her was like, there was a meal train and there was some other things, and there was like a GoFundMe, because again, it was completely unexpected. 39 years old, you don’t expect somebody to be on vacation with their family drop dead, like fucking horrific out of the country. [00:36:05] So that was a whole thing [00:36:06] Jeffrey: Oh my [00:36:06] Christina: don’t, so I, I, I can’t even imagine, honestly, like I, we didn’t talk about it here because it was, I a, I didn’t wanna, it was not about me and I didn’t wanna make it about me, but it did impact like my mental health a lot over the summer just because, you know, like I loved her so much, but I can’t even imagine being in another country. [00:36:24] Um, they’re in Turks and Caicos with two, um, small children, losing my spouse and then having to figure out like, how, how do you get the body out? How do you, like, what do you do? Like, I mean, you know what I mean? Like, they’re just [00:36:34] Brett: technical considerations. Yeah. [00:36:36] Christina: They’re, I mean, like, honestly, like you, you gotta call the consulate, I’m sure. [00:36:39] I’m sure that they’re pro like weird covid thing. Just, I, I don’t even wanna imagine. Um, and, and the fact that she also was having to raise two little boys at the same time, still be mom, like I just strong. So, yeah. So, you know, ha, the, the, the meals she said really helped. And then we sent her like an edible arrangement for the funeral because I didn’t know if like they wanted, uh, you know, flowers or not, or, and I couldn’t get information from the funeral home to really like find out like what the deal was going to be. [00:37:08] And I, I didn’t wanna bug her to ask too many details. So instead I was just like, okay, we’ll send an edible arrangement to the house after the funeral. Um, and, and, and she loved it. And, um, you know, we, we did some other things, but it was just like, you know, you just, you feel just, but, but that, I, I, I think that’s good advice. [00:37:28] Um, I’m gonna send, uh, my friend who, who’s, you know, what their family is going through right now. I’m gonna send her a hundred dollars, um, uh, GrubHub card right now, actually. That’s, that’s [00:37:38] Brett: Good call. [00:37:39] Christina: Yeah. [00:37:40] Jeffrey: Because it’s funny, right? Because I think that, I know that I assume when somebody’s going through something, like even just what you described Christina, with your friend out of the country, like I assume that they’re on some special plane of grief, um, that I can’t access. But in fact, they’re dealing with just one bullshit decision after another. [00:37:58] Right? And in that sense, it’s a lot easier to imagine your meal card cutting through that than cutting through some high state of, [00:38:05] Christina: Well, that’s [00:38:05] Jeffrey: of [00:38:05] Christina: the thing. Well, that’s the thing. When you don’t have to make the decision, when you don’t have to make the decision about who, who food is coming from or, or anything like that. Right. Like, you know, when you don’t have to, you just, you know, go forward. Yeah. [00:38:17] Brett: why people bring casseroles to wakes, [00:38:20] Christina: totally. [00:38:20] Jeffrey: Well, and it also, I know for me, with my mom, like it meant that I did eat, [00:38:24] Christina: Yeah, well [00:38:25] Jeffrey: I was, I was living in that hospital ICU for like a week and I would just be like, ah, fuck it. I’ll go get a bag of chips in the vending machine later, but instead I could get Thai food delivered. It made a huge differe. [00:38:37] Brett: Um, Jeff, I wanna hear from you before I do a terrible sponsor break. [00:38:43] Jeffrey: That’s a good way to set it up. That’s why we have all the listeners and the money, um, [00:38:48] Christina: is why we have all the money. [00:38:49] Jeffrey: Yeah. Uh, I am, I’m doing really good today. Uh, I, um, I don’t have a lot to sort of report coherently, um, publicly , but like, just that, you know, just picking up actually on, um, the job thing we were talking about for so long, I, I’m pretty close to having an end date to my project that has been going for almost five years. [00:39:19] Um, sometime in the spring, most likely. And, uh, I’ll be 48 and. I know I don’t wanna go back to an office, which I guess is easier now than it used to be to not go back to an office. But I also have thought a lot about how projects that I’ve built, that I’ve worked on, that are sort of trauma facing, they do this work around juvenile justice, um, are, are, are sort of almost really ought to be a relic of my past as, as weird as that may sound because it was a different me that needed to always do trauma facing work. [00:39:57] Um, and I think I was a little past that even when I started this project, but I didn’t realize it yet. And I’ve just had a lot happen over the last few years that’s caused just a ton of growth and sort of reconciliation with hard things. And I actually feel like what’s complicated about deciding what’s next is that I don’t think there’s a direct pathway out of what I have been doing. [00:40:24] To whatever it is that I want to do, because I don’t want to do, I want to have a season of not doing trauma facing work in my life. A season in my life of not doing that. Um, I’ve never had such a season . Uh, well, from the time I stopped being a drummer in a punk rock band in 1998, [00:40:42] Brett: when, when you immediately went into fucking journalism [00:40:45] Jeffrey: no, I, not even that, I went straight to like, activism and aid work in Iraq and, you know, journalism didn’t even come for another like five years. [00:40:54] Um, and so I’m just, I’ve kind of realized in therapy and elsewhere that it’s like, oh, you know, I’ve kind of settled that part of me. Maybe I shouldn’t just build something up that kind of forces me into a sort of trauma, um, hunter gatherer phase. [00:41:10] Brett: Yeah. How do you, how do you redefine like that? Is, that, is the, you I know, is someone who, who puts themselves into trauma facing situations, uh, to document them, to aid in and remedying them. Like, I, I don’t, I don’t know how you redefine [00:41:37] Jeffrey: Me neither. That’s why it’s, that’s why it’s sitting here in Mental Health Corner [00:41:41] Brett: yeah. Right. [00:41:44] Jeffrey: I’m not stressed about it at all. I’m, I’m actually just really grateful to have that awareness cuz um, you know, I’m also in just a weird point in time where it’s like jobs I would’ve gotten in the past aren’t really available to me in the same way, um, that they used to be. [00:42:01] Uh, and it’s, it’s nothing like what it’s like for women. And I would say that I’m reaching a point as a man that if I could be hired in journalism, it would be by other men, um, of my age or older who are absolutely not the cohort I want to be working. Um, ever again, . I’m just like, I hated that about journalism. [00:42:24] I hated it. All these men who failed up and became managers and hired more men that, that they liked and, and thought they were radical when they hired a woman. Um, you know, that’s just a scene that, I mean, I’m not even saying I’m welcome in that scenario anymore, but [00:42:43] Brett: Yeah. [00:42:44] Jeffrey: Anyway, let’s tune in next year to see what happens to Jeff Um, I don’t know if I could get paid a lot of money to just work on old machines in my garage. That’d be fucking fine. I’ve, I’ve done [00:42:57] Christina: I, I mean, totally. [00:42:58] Brett: is, is there a way? Is, is there a profession [00:43:03] Christina: Can you make a YouTube channel? [00:43:04] Jeffrey: I’ve thought about the YouTube channel, but you know, those people, they don’t end up happy. [00:43:08] Christina: I know. I’m [00:43:08] Jeffrey: You, you will end up serving the, serving the channel. That’s what I worry about. [00:43:13] Brett: the most when we were kids? I’m willing to bet you guys when they asked you what, what you want it to be when you grow up. You said things like fireman, uh, astronaut, like we had weird aspirations. Unrealistic. Do you know what the most common Gen Z response is? Yes, [00:43:34] Christina: YouTuber. [00:43:36] Brett: YouTuber. [00:43:37] Jeffrey: Hey, look, I, I actually would love, so the , there is a whole genre of YouTube channel that’s just literally no narration tool restoration. And there are people that do that work that get 4 million hits a video, [00:43:52] Brett: Jesus. [00:43:52] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:43:53] Jeffrey: saying anything. I mean, [00:43:55] Brett: do. You do, you know the, like a YouTube, when you watch your favorite YouTuber and they do a sponsor break, do you have any idea how much they get paid for that sponsor break? [00:44:08] Jeffrey: Oh. So the ones that don’t get cut out when you have premium, like that kind of situation. [00:44:13] Brett: the ones that are, [00:44:14] Christina: varies. [00:44:15] Brett: the ones that are part of the actual YouTube itself, they’re five digits plus. Like I, we don’t get that kind of money for our sponsor spots and like you get a YouTube channel with even, you know, 250,000 subscribers, you can make bank on those sponsor spots. It’s crazy to me. [00:44:42] Jeffrey: You know what drives my, my boys nuts is if I help them with something and they’re like, oh, thanks. As I’m leaving, I go, Hey, don’t forget to match that subscribe button. pisses them off so much. [00:44:54] Brett: Remember to turn on alerts. Um, [00:44:56] Jeffrey: right. [00:44:57] Brett: do you mind if I take a, a [00:44:59] Jeffrey: No sponsor it. Sponsor: Rocket Money [00:45:00] Brett: feels like a perfect segue so anyone who knows me knows about my robo down fetish. Um, I have subscribed to multiple robot dominatrix services over the years, and I get a lot of dirty pleasure from submitting to dominant, sexy mechanical entities. [00:45:20] But those subscriptions pile up over time and it’s really easy to lose track of which Elon Electronic overlords I’m serving. And I need a quick way to see all of my subscriptions and cancel the ones that I’m done with. That’s why I love using Rocket. Formerly known as truebill. The app shows you all of your subscriptions in one place and then cancels for you whatever you don’t still want. [00:45:46] Rocket Money can even find subscriptions you didn’t know you were paying for, and you may even find out that you’ve been double charged for a subscription. To cancel Sub to cancel a subscription, all you have to do is press cancel, and rocket money takes care of the rest. Get rid of useless subscriptions with Rocket Money now. [00:46:07] Go to Rocket money.com/ Overtired. Seriously, it could save you hundreds per year. That’s Rocket money.com/ Overtired. Cancel your unnecessary subscriptions right now@rocketmoney.com slash Overtired. And if you wanna curb your submission to the sexy, sexy robot overlords, check out Rocket money.com/overtired. [00:46:34] Jeffrey: I wanna point out that you’ve somehow found a way to segue Mental Health Corner every episode into you working out your weird fetishes [00:46:42] Brett: I feel, I, I, I feel like it’s part of my mental health situation to just really to shine shed light. Right? Like [00:46:53] Jeffrey: Yeah. You’re a voice for the voiceless. Yeah. You’re a voice for the voiceless. It’s really amazing. Light and dark corners, brother Podcast Swap: Best Advice Show [00:47:00] Brett: I would also like to tell everyone about another podcast that we, we love, uh, we love them because they’re also talking about us. This is a promo swap. [00:47:11] Jeffrey: It doesn’t take much for us to love you. [00:47:15] Brett: The best advice show is your reminder that there are weird, delightful, and effective ways to make your life slightly and sometimes profoundly better. And, Very short episode of the show, A different contributor offers to take, offers, their take on making life more joyful, helpful, and livable. And it’s likely gonna be something you can try out today if you want. [00:47:41] What I love about the show is you can get in and get out. You can learn a tangible, actionable nugget of advice and then get on with your day. The host, Zach Rosen, talks to well-known people like Happiness Guru, Gretchen Rubin, and filmmaker Mike Mills, but also his friends and his daughter and his listeners. [00:48:02] The best advice show available wherever you listen to Overtired. What, what? Uh, out of the, you, you added three topics. Jeff, I wanna talk about these common passwords. Your Shitty Passwords Are Safe Here [00:48:13] Jeffrey: Yeah, let’s do that cuz the other two kind of go together. So this is funny cuz Nord VPN is sometimes a sponsor and this is a list gathered, uh, with financing from Nord Pass. [00:48:24] Brett: set us up. [00:48:24] Jeffrey: So basically Nord um, Nord Pass released a two top 200 most common passwords. You can find a link in the show notes. Um, and it’s actually something where they worked with independent researchers who specialize in cybersecurity incidents. [00:48:41] Basically there’s a database of all the password leaks and they analyze those. Um, in this case it was a three terabyte database, um, of all of these leaks that they analyzed to come up with the top 200 passwords. Now I’ll get us just past the past the cruft. I mean, right off the bat you’ve got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. [00:49:04] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. You’ve got Quarty. That’s just that row on your your deal, right? Here’s something I love, which is that in the 22 spot, I love you, [00:49:15] Brett: So I, down at the bottom, they have like different breakdowns for fashion brands, artists video games, swear words fascinates me because 21,223,000, some passwords were just, fuck, [00:49:33] Christina: yeah, [00:49:34] Brett: their password was just, [00:49:35] Christina: well, well, well fuck you. Is is number 56 on this year’s list with 1,000,560 2037. And I have to say, I, I think that I, not for any current passwords, uh, cuz I used password manager and I don’t even know most my passwords, but fuck off has definitely been a password that I’ve used before. [00:49:54] Jeffrey: You’re just not in the mood for that shit right now. [00:49:56] Christina: Well, because, because, and often, oftentimes, oftentimes we’d be like, for, you know, a service that they make, you sign up for a pa, sign up for an account and you don’t want to, and you’re like, I’m never gonna use this again. Be like, fuck off. [00:50:06] Jeffrey: yes, yes, [00:50:07] Brett: sure. But let me just put it out there. If you add some spaces and some extra words, if you wrote, fuck, write the hell off with spaces between each word, you would reduce the crack ability of the password [00:50:20] Christina: yeah. Oh yeah, I, I If it was go space, fuck space yourself. Um, explanation Mark. Um, uh, that would be like, uh, a very difficult to crack password. [00:50:32] Jeffrey: you know, yeah. Fuck, you may not be that simple, but I would like to, uh, I would like to point you to number 1 31. Fuck you, one. [00:50:39] Christina: See that? I saw that. I, I appreciate this. Also weirdly, in, in, in the top and the top list. MySpace one. Who the fuck is still using MySpace? [00:50:48] Brett: exactly what Better password than a dead social media [00:50:53] Jeffrey: Oh my God. Um, okay, so Brett’s talking about on the homepage for this top 200, you can look at like movies. They have these special, uh, lists. So, uh, and you had cuss words, swear words, [00:51:06] Brett: What is Leon? I don’t even know what Leon is. [00:51:10] Jeffrey: in the movie thing. Well, that’s like, well, hold on, go back to swear words because I learned that mist is German for like, well, it said it might be German for dang, but, which isn’t really exciting. [00:51:19] But, um, you got putta in there, like it’s a little international, uh, the list, but it’s mostly swears we know in English. [00:51:28] Brett: Because if you do it in a foreign language, it’s less Crackable [00:51:31] Jeffrey: um, okay. Christ Christina. I’m at the art, the top 10 artists, and Taylor Swift is not in that top 10. [00:51:38] Christina: Okay, good. That’s because swifties know better Swifties know [00:51:41] Jeffrey: right. That’s, that’s the point. Yeah. [00:51:44] Brett: Metallica and Eminem are [00:51:47] Christina: Uh, [00:51:47] Jeffrey: Metallica comes in after the Eagles fucking boomers. [00:51:51] Christina: after Eagles? Yeah, I was. That’s an awful lot of fucking, um, now, now what’s interesting, pink, pink they have is the artist. I think that’s just the color because a, any true pink fan would use the [00:52:02] Jeffrey: Yeah, that makes no sense. Who, what fucking service is allowing you to use U2 [00:52:08] Christina: Thank [00:52:08] Brett: Yeah, exactly. How do you, [00:52:10] Jeffrey: That makes no [00:52:11] Brett: with a two character [00:52:13] Jeffrey: I’m calling bullshit on that one. [00:52:14] Christina: Yeah. Also [00:52:15] Brett: million. [00:52:17] Christina: Yeah. Is it, are we sure that’s just not in the password? There are a couple of other, um, two letter ones in cars. VW is number four. Like there’s no way, [00:52:24] Jeffrey: yeah, yeah, [00:52:25] Christina: letting you have like a two letter password. [00:52:28] Jeffrey: I wonder if they’re just cutting off numbers, uh, for [00:52:31] Christina: what I’m thinking. That that’s what it has to be. That’s what it has to be. [00:52:35] Jeffrey: I’m really sad that X X X has such a weak showing at number 200. [00:52:40] Christina: Honestly. Honestly. Uh, g uh, yeah. This has to be just like them cutting stuff off. Cause like, GTA is, is, um, number five on video [00:52:49] Jeffrey: Right. Okay. Right, right, [00:52:50] Christina: million whatnot. And like I, I could see somebody being like, GTA password or gta, you know, 1, 2, 3, 4 or whatever for their grant theft point. Oh online, um, login, which, you know, fair. [00:53:03] Um, I have to say I don’t reuse passwords and I use a password manager and al and half for a long time. But there are some things where I. I don’t care if this gets leaked because I don’t have any payment information or anything else to it, where sometimes I will use a very obvious, very bad password just because I’m like, I, I, I don’t care enough to even open up the [00:53:22] Jeffrey: Are you one of the, are you one of the 840,000 people using Justin [00:53:27] Christina: Ooh, yeah. [00:53:29] Brett: even, even in cases where I don’t care, like I’m not going to use this service in correlation with anything else. And if [00:53:38] Christina: agree. Yeah. [00:53:40] Brett: even in those situations, I will use a three word phrase with spaces. I, I love that spaces are loud and passwords cuz I can just type [00:53:52] Christina: Well, some passwords, [00:53:55] Brett: Mo most, most passwords will allow you to use a space, [00:53:59] Christina: I don’t know. I, I, I, I, I, I run into so many ex uh, uh, um, exceptions with that for certain [00:54:04] Brett: If, if I run into an exception, I’ll use an underscore, but but a three word phrase and I will, and, and on services that I really don’t care about, I will reuse a password and [00:54:17] Christina: I was, I was gonna say, do you reuse the thing cuz? Cuz at that point, [00:54:20] Brett: shortcut to insert that password. Like it’s, it’s built, it’s hard coded into my key bindings to like just insert this fucking generic password that if this service got compromised and this password is compromised anywhere else it was used, I also wouldn’t care. [00:54:40] Christina: Yeah, I, um, I used to use, uh, for, um, uh, this was for a shared password service, I think it was called Pass pack. This, that was one of the early enterprise focus, like password manager things. Um, we, you had to have like a, a phrase to get into it, like that’s what they required you to do. And I had a Simpsons quote, and I won’t say which one. [00:54:58] Um, uh, I, cause I don’t think I’ve used it anywhere else, but I’m not opening myself up for that sort of opsec and there are only a hundred million Simpsons quotes you could use. But I found that was [00:55:08] Brett: doctor said my nose wouldn’t bleed if I just cut my fingers out of there. [00:55:12] Christina: Exactly, [00:55:13] Jeffrey: is showing. [00:55:14] Christina: And exactly. And so, but, but that was, I was thinking, I was like, you know, if I had to come up with like something and keep a list of it, obviously still have a, a list of my past phrases, but I was like, that would probably be one of the, one of the best ones I could do. Just because it, you know, I’ve spent my, literally my entire life I’ve spent quoting The Simpsons, so, [00:55:35] Jeffrey: What about, okay, so two things. I want to read my, two of my very favorites, and I know we need to move on, but I also wanna say, do you remember back in the day when you could, um, log into a service by adding your username and password to the url? Did you ever do that? [00:55:48] Brett: Yeah. [00:55:49] Jeffrey: It would be like you, it would be like you, Colin. [00:55:52] Brett: basic authentication. You can still do that with [00:55:54] Jeffrey: can you, [00:55:55] Brett: a lot, most services that have moved on to like token authentication. Uh, no longer accept basic auth, but anything that does still accept basic auth. Even if you ping a 1.0 version of their api, you can still put username, colon password into the URL and log into it [00:56:17] Jeffrey: Wow. The, we’ve [00:56:19] Christina: That’s so bad though. Like [00:56:21] Jeffrey: Okay. [00:56:22] Christina: and when and when we think about it, like that’s literally like one of the worst things you could possibly [00:56:26] Jeffrey: Oh my God. It’s just, it’s horrible. Cause it also means someone’s emailing [00:56:29] Brett: non SSL URLs [00:56:31] Christina: saying. With [00:56:32] Jeffrey: right, right, [00:56:32] Christina: you, you’re literally passing in, in plain text. You’re pa I was like, oh my god. [00:56:36] Jeffrey: yeah. It’s, it’s like the days before you could treat sexually transmitted diseases. Um, so, okay, my two favorites before we move on. Uh, right here at number 1 52, let me in all one word. That’s a good one. And then last year’s number 1 46 Trust. No. One t r u s t N O. Number one. That should have been n zero number one though, really? Harditude [00:57:02] Jeffrey: I mean, if we were really going for it. All right. It’s gratitude time. Yeah. And we’re, we’re switching it up today. [00:57:09] Brett: Yeah, this is what we call it attitude. Har. [00:57:13] Christina: attitude. Which, which I kind of love cuz it’s like, it, it, it ki [00:57:17] Jeffrey: it’s like attitude. There was a band called Attitude, attitude, [00:57:21] Christina: Attitude [00:57:22] Jeffrey: uh, hardware, [00:57:24] Christina: that makes us [00:57:24] Brett: hardware, a hardware week of gratitude. We’re gonna talk about some of our favorite hardware for the week. Uh, I feel like, Christina, you’re ready to go with this. [00:57:35] Christina: Yep. Yep. Okay. So, um, this is a keyboard that I was not expecting to buy last week, but I did, uh, a cuz it was on sale for Black Friday. And b because it turns out I work with the, the, the designer, um, which was wild to me. I was talking to her. and I didn’t realize. So, um, are, are either of you familiar with the Olivia, um, uh, keycaps, um, um, uh, series? [00:58:01] Like the, the, the, the, the theme? So if, if you search G m k Olivia, it’s like one of the most loved, um, keycaps sets, um, that’s come out. And there, there are a million copies of it. Um, and, uh, it, uh, hasn’t been run, I don’t think, since, since 2018, um, or, or, or 2019. Um, so, but, but it’s, it’s, it’s a rose gold theme set anyway. [00:58:24] Um, I work with Olivia at GitHub. Olivia works at [00:58:28] Jeffrey: Really? [00:58:29] Christina: Yeah. And I found this out when we were talking about something unrelated, but she, we were bonding over Rose gold, and she was like, do you have a rose gold keyboard? I was like, I do. And I showed her like a key cap set or whatever that I have. And then I was like, I, I wanted, you know, uh, more of these, but it’s hard to get. [00:58:42] She was like, yeah, it’s gonna be come, you know, coming. Um, there’s gonna be another release in, in, in blah, blah, blah. And I just figured she was really into the keyboard community. And then I realized that one of the, one of the, there was a, a themed Olivia keyboard that, um, uh, notion Keys came out with, um, last year. [00:58:59] Um, and it was, um, 50% off for, um, uh, black Friday. And, um, I, uh, I was, and I asked my friend Helen, I was like, should I buy this? Um, because it’s, it’s 50% off. She’s like, well, you know, Olivia works at, um, novel Keys. Sorry, not Ocean Keys, novel keys. She’s like, she was like, well, you know, Olivia works at GitHub. [00:59:21] And I was like, Wait, what? I’m talking to her right now. And I went back to Olivia and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You’re the Olivia. She was like, yeah. I was like, so I was literally wearing the bandt to the concert, talking to the band, and didn’t even know [00:59:33] Jeffrey: Oh, that’s [00:59:34] Christina: Um, she, she’s also the main developer behind Via, which is like the, the keyboard customization, um, software for, for Q M K, the, the firmware. [00:59:42] Anyway, she’s badass. We’re best friends now, but I bought, because it was 50% off, I bought, um, an NK 65 Olivia edition key word. So, you know, uh, in, in, in, in homage to, uh, my, uh, my new best friend and, um, it’s also, uh, I, I needed to, uh, lube the, um, the stabilizers, um, uh, on, on the, uh, space bar and, and the inner, uh, uh, But, um, the, the, the keys themselves, even though it was a preassembled one, like, and I would’ve been happy to assemble it myself, but, uh, in, in this case, it was actually cheaper to get the keyboard than it would be to buy, um, an aftermarket set of the keys. [01:00:19] Um, but I, but I, I bought, um, uh, the Olivia edition keyboard and I really like it. So that’s, that’s, uh, my, my, my, um, um, attitude and also like, uh, just a hilarious story that I found out that I like [01:00:34] Jeffrey: That’s amazing. [01:00:34] Christina: yeah, I, I, I still can’t believe it, that I’m like, I was like, I’m, I’m literally like, I had no idea. Like, you would’ve thought that I was like trying to like, like suck up to her or something. [01:00:46] I had no clue [01:00:46] Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. [01:00:48] Christina: I, I was like, wait, because Olivia, in my mind, I, there was no way in my mind that I was like, oh yeah, she person who designed that. The, the, the key cap series Olivia is, is Olivia. No. Yeah, same person. She’s great. [01:01:01] Jeffrey: another, you live in Capitol Hill, right? [01:01:02] Christina: I do. [01:01:04] Jeffrey: Yeah. Uh, here’s another story from Capitol Hill, um, in 1992, uh, my friend Marty, she was at a bar and she was drinking with a friend whose other friend showed up, and the three of them were sitting at a table and, um, and, and she asked the guy that had joined them like, well, oh, what do you do? [01:01:22] And he is like, oh, I’m a bass player. She’s like, oh, cool. I’m a bass player too. Da da. Keeps going, keeps going. It was Jeff Ament, the bass player of Pearl Jam , who she had no idea what he even looked like. She said, I’m a bass player too. That’s cool. I’m in a band too. [01:01:35] Christina: Oh my God. I bet he loved that though. [01:01:38] Jeffrey: bet he did. Yeah, you got it. [01:01:39] I mean, you gotta, it’s like perfect. Uh, just an innocent awesome. Just like, yeah. He wasn’t like, I’m a bass player. You might’ve heard of me. I’m the guy in the, I Was he hearing the hat? I never asked her. Like, cuz there’s no excuse for, for missing it if he was wearing the big floppy fat Albert hat. Where the fuck he wore? [01:01:56] Anyway, that you reminded me of that. And it comes from your neighborhood. Um, [01:02:00] Christina: it. [01:02:01] Jeffrey: All right, Brett, you want to go? [01:02:03] Brett: Sure. I, uh, I’m gonna talk about the Wave XLR from El Gado. Um, so I, I use a, uh, sure SM seven B microphone, which is why my voice has this wonderful timber to it. Um, but in order to use it previously, I have run it through a cloud lifter and then through a, uh, scarlet solo, uh, [01:02:33] Jeffrey: two preamps. [01:02:34] Brett: Sure. And, and then a second, uh, cutoff switch for a microphone mute, uh, as a cough button. [01:02:44] And, and I have, I have multiple versions of that. So ultimately 500 plus dollars worth of hardware. Uh, just use this microphone. And then from, as we, uh, as mentioned previously on the show, we, uh, David Sparks, uh, mentioned that he was using the Wave XLR and I decided it’s 150 bucks. I’m gonna give it a shot. [01:03:12] It’s, it’s one big dial that has [01:03:15] Jeffrey: I was gonna say I love that. Yeah. [01:03:19] Brett: is it Watts? I don’t even know what the, the unit is, but 75 decibels. Um, I’m gonna fuck [01:03:28] Jeffrey: 75. What? Its. [01:03:30] Brett: what its, uh, is enough to power the SM seven B on its own. And you can control the mix in your headphones, the headphones volume, and the microphone gain all from one big dial, uh, right there on your, on your, on your desk. [01:03:49] And it has a capacitive, uh, mute button. So I can just tap the top of this thing and, and it serves as a cough button. Uh, so like literally all I have to do is flail for it, . If, if I need to silence it, I just flail for it. [01:04:08] Jeffrey: you don’t hear a cough, but you hear as you try to [01:04:11] Brett: no, I just, it, it’s pretty easy to hit. I keep it right in the middle of my desk and I am very impressed with it. [01:04:18] It is $150 gadget that has. Uh, replace over $500 worth of gear that I am now going to see what I can get for on the used gear market. But, uh, yeah, this is a great little, great little box. And even without the drivers, without the software, like it does exactly what I’ve just said, it would, uh, but with the software that that El Gado provides, you can also patch in multiple audio sources and mix and, and match all of your, uh, different inputs and it will interface very nicely with a stream deck and, and the stream deck plus, which, oh my God, that’s what I want for Christmas. [01:05:06] If anyone wants to get me a Christmas present, send me a stream deck. Plus with the four [01:05:11] Christina: Yeah, I want that too. I want that too. I, I, um, because I have the, the, the, the stream deck, um, um, uh, the big one [01:05:19] Brett: the XL. [01:05:20] Christina: the xl and I didn’t get the mark too because it was just the face plates, even though it looks great. But now the stream deck plus I’m like, oh man, I want this. I have almost the entire el gado like kit of stuff. [01:05:30] I’ve got their lights. I’ve got like the, the, the, um, the, the cam link 4k. I’ve got like the, yeah. Um, [01:05:36] Brett: lights. [01:05:37] Christina: I’ve got, I’ve got like everything, but I, I, I don’t have the Excel, um, um, r because I, um, uh, the, the wave Excel or whatever it is because I have the task cam thing that I’m using now. Didn’t you used to have a road caster? [01:05:51] Brett: Uh, no, I’ve never had the road caster. I, I would be curious again, if someone wants to send it to me, great. But no, I’ve never, I’ve never had the road caster. [01:06:02] Christina: Okay, so eventually when I finally set up all my stuff, which I will be doing hopefully over Christmas, I have, because it’s been sitting here for months, I [01:06:10] Brett: Oh man. [01:06:11] Jeffrey: Oh shit. [01:06:13] Christina: this off on camera. So I have the task cam MixCast four, which is basically their version of the broadcaster. Now, the road caster, they did just come out with a new version, which I think is better, but when I bought mine, the task can was both cheaper and had features that the roader [01:06:28] Jeffrey: you start dropping beats [01:06:30] Christina: I mean, I hope [01:06:31] Jeffrey: all those little [01:06:31] Christina: So, but, but in, in, in my defense, I needed to spend like a certain amount of money, um, that like the comp, like the Microsoft gave me every year for certain things. I needed to spend it before I left. So I had like $1,500 that I had to blow through. So I got that and I got, um, uh, uh, the, um, uh, at four and I got, um, two, no, I got three El Gado, um, or not, not Elga four, um, uh, three Ergotron arms. [01:06:57] So I was just like, bam, there we go. But if I hadn’t, then I would’ve been, I’m really glad to, I’m really glad to know that the Wave XL R works with, um, the, uh, SM seven B because a lot of sub $200 preamp things don’t, so that’s, that’s [01:07:16] Brett: this is the most powerful preamp I’ve ever seen in a sub $500, uh, mixer or, uh, audio interface. [01:07:26] Christina: That’s awesome. Yeah. [01:07:28] Brett: all the amperage you [01:07:29] Christina: Yeah. When you were telling us about it, at first I was confused because I, I was confusing it with them, their microphone. I was like, why would you replace your seven B with this? But, okay, so that, that, that’s why, that’s why I asked, oh, you’re, you’re selling that? I was make money for that. [01:07:42] You’re like, no, I’m gonna keep it. I was like, okay, well that’s weird. Um, so but now, no, now, now, now it makes sense. And, and, um, I, I, I, I got them confused, but El Gado man, like I even have their, their green screen, which I’m gonna have to get installed at some point, cuz I got like the, the one I can mount on the wall and like pull it down. [01:07:59] Like, I, I love their stuff. [01:08:02] Jeffrey: Well, my, uh, attitude is actually. El Gato and it’s, it’s not even like necessarily gratitude, it’s just for anyone who’s considering upgrading from the like, medium size one to the xl. I did that last year. I still don’t feel more than 15 at a time. It looks like the, sorry. Yeah, I’m talking about the stream deck xl, which has like, what, 28? [01:08:24] Christina: It was too big for me. I didn’t need it. I would’ve. [01:08:28] Jeffrey: it looks so sad. Like I have one for when I’m on Zooms and it just looks like I bought a house that’s way too big for me and then went back on tour, [01:08:35] Christina: Yeah, totally. [01:08:36] Jeffrey: the early rockstar move. Um, so just to anybody who’s wondering really just game it out. Cuz other than the fact that the form factor is fucking awesome on this thing, uh, I don’t need it. [01:08:48] Christina: Yeah. I would say for people, if you don’t know, we’ve talked about this before and actually this is good gratitude. So this, this kind of takes us back. If you are not sure if you, um, would benefit from a steam deck. Stream deck, sorry. The steam deck is also great, but if you do not know, uh, if you would benefit from a stream deck, El Gado sells a stream deck app in the app store that has the same functionality. [01:09:10] It doesn’t have the tactile buttons obviously, but has the same functionality. I think it’s like $30 for a year subscription. I think you can also do it monthly. What I’d recommend doing is. that app out and, and doing the subscription, you know, for a month or a year or whatever. As, as a test, see if you get benefit out of it. [01:09:29] If you do, if it’s something you realize, oh, I’m gonna benefit from this, then go ahead and buy a physical one. Um, you can also use the two together, which is really useful and they can kind of sync. So if [01:09:41] Jeffrey: You can use the little one and the big one together. [01:09:43] Brett: I use, I use, I have a 15 key one and I have a six key mini, and I use the 15 key one to determine what displays on the six key mini. Uh, so I have like pages of buttons on my 15 key, and I, I can just press a button on that and it will change what’s displayed on the mini, which is front, like the, the 15 keys to the left of my keyboard on a keyboard tray. [01:10:11] But the mini is front and center on the top of my desk. And, uh, so like, say I’m in a Zoom meeting, I just hit the zoom button on the 15 key and all of my buttons on my mini change to buttons for muting my microphone, turning video on and off, leaving the meeting sharing screen and like very context sensitive [01:10:34] Jeffrey: It also, it allows you to be super chaotic. You just start hitting all those buttons, you know, [01:10:39] Brett: Yeah. [01:10:41] Jeffrey: Awesome. Well, good to see y’all again. [01:10:44] Christina: Yes. Good [01:10:45] Brett: I’m late for therapy as we speak. [01:10:47] Christina: Oh, man. Well, [01:10:48] Brett: My, my therapy, my therapy session started 12 minutes ago and I sent an email saying, Hey, I got a meeting running long. I will be there. Charge me for the full hour. I’ll get there when I get there, [01:11:01] Christina: Well, thank you for, for, for, uh, for, for missing therapy for us. Uh, hopefully we were a good pregame and, uh, yeah, [01:11:10] Brett: Right on. [01:11:11] Jeffrey: Get some sleep [01:11:12] Christina: get some [01:11:12] Brett: some sleep. [01:11:14] Outro: The.

From Ticketmaster shenanigans (and Taylor Swift) to TV Zombies to Black Friday software deals, this episode is perfect for Thanksgiving hangovers. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 40% off your order. Show Links Last Week Tonight on Ticketmaster SK Hynix P31 2TB PCIe NVMe Gen3 M.2 Internal SSD OWC Express 4M2 SN770 The Walking Dead Daryl Dixon Rob Bricken’s Walking Dead recap Forklift Path Finder Michael Tsai Black Friday 2022 HoudahSpot Mountain Duck LaunchControl from SomaZone Fantastical Teleprompter Premium (4.99 for Black Friday) Soulver 3 for half off Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 308 [00:00:00] Christina: [00:00:02] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired, a podcast where I’m not angrily ranting for once. I’m Christina Warren, joined as always by my friends, Brett Terpstra and Jeff Severns Guntzel Boys. How are you doing [00:00:19] Brett: You’re not angrily ranting yet, but the night is young [00:00:22] Christina: The okay. The, the, the, the episode is young, but I’m not like that. That’s not all I’m doing. Let’s say that. [00:00:28] Jeff: Hello. [00:00:31] This is where the ticketmaster talk starts [00:00:31] Brett: Yeah. Um, so Christina, you, you had a, you had a, a cameo last week, uh, as you dealt with some, uh, Taylor Swift ticket issues, [00:00:43] Christina: Yes. [00:00:44] Brett: we’re all on the edge of our seats to know how that turned out. Did your mom get tickets? How are things going? [00:00:49] Christina: No, no, no, she did not. Uh, because they canceled the general sale. So, uh, my, uh, my best attempt at getting tickets for Atlanta where I had tickets in [00:01:00] my cart, I hit, I hit checkout, I checked out, and then because my dad’s phone was off, he did not get a code that I needed to check out. Um, yeah, so that happened. [00:01:12] Christina: I was able to successfully get some tickets for the Seattle show using someone else’s Capital One credit card, because [00:01:20] Brett: What’s in their wallet? [00:01:22] Christina: even though my, my, my dad was like, I will have my phone next to me. I was like, I do not trust you. [00:01:29] Jeff: A bond has been broken. I have a, I have a question for you, Christina. How, how well do you grasp this current, um, lawsuit situation around Live Nation and whatever else? [00:01:41] Christina: Well, okay. I don’t know really how much of a case there is for it, to be completely honest. Like, I feel like the DOJ. Video J should have been investigating Ticketmaster for years. And, and honestly, I consider it a massive failure of the Obama administration that they allowed, um, Ticketmaster and Live Nation to merge in 2011 to begin with. [00:01:58] Christina: Right. Like [00:02:00] every, it is sort of funny to see all these Democrats like decrying this, and I’m like, okay, let’s not forget whose congress, whose senate and whose presidency this was under. [00:02:08] Brett: Obama was not great for monopoly uh, issues. [00:02:13] Christina: no, but I’m also, but, but I’m just saying like this, this was 2011. This was not like when, this was not an era when, uh, Democrats, um, did not have, uh, a say and, and it wasn’t like we were split down the middle. Like we are right now. Right? So, um, let’s just be honest about that situation. So I, I think that this is a merger that anybody with, with common sense knows never should have happened. [00:02:40] Christina: Uh, but I don’t know how much of how strong the DOJ case here is. And, and how much of this is just politicians bloviating. I am glad that because so many politicians clearly could not get Taylor Swift tickets, that they’re angry about this. Um, and, and maybe that will change some things. Um, but I [00:03:00] don’t know the, the big egregious aspect of the wholesale to me as we’ve gotten more information, like, look, I’m mad about like my own like bad luck in this. [00:03:08] Christina: Um, I did get tickets to two shows. I will be buying tickets from my mom and I cuz my mom really wants to go. And now she’s like, oh, it just wasn’t meant to be. And I’m like, hell no. will spend what it costs. And I don’t wanna, I mean, this is the part that pisses me off. I’m even willing to buy like scallops tickets. [00:03:27] Christina: But then the scalpers charge 50% fees, 50% of what the ticket price is. So it’s not even like a, a fee price. So like if you were to be dumb enough to buy $12,000 tickets from StubHub, StubHub is then going to charge you $6,000 in fees. That is obscene. [00:03:44] Jeff: that’s [00:03:45] Christina: That’s obscene. Also, it’s obscene that, that, you know, like they, there are ways that you can prevent tickets from being transferred. [00:03:53] Christina: And I, I’m not a fan of being like, only the people who can go are people who actually bought the tickets. Cuz that’s kind of [00:04:00] fucked up, right? Like real life things happen and, and if you wanted to buy them for people, like, I don’t know, that just feels like going too far. But there are things that they could absolutely do where like they see these tickets going for these prices on these services. [00:04:13] Christina: They could absolutely go reach out to these services and be like, No, you can’t sell for these shows, or we’re going to ban, you know, we’re, we’re going to go through the, the, the line and, and find this stuff out. Um, but, uh, I, I don’t know. I mean, the, the clusterfuck of the, of the sale, the fact they canceled the general sale, the thing that has me as a conspiracy theorist, and I don’t think this is much of a conspiracy, they didn’t sell all the tickets. [00:04:43] Christina: There are still tickets for each show remaining. We don’t know how many, and it probably wasn’t enough to do a general sale, but there are definitely still tickets out there. And at some point Ticketmaster will allow resales, I’m pretty sure, of this show on their platform. And at some point, I’m absolutely convinced whether it’s Ticketmaster [00:05:00] employees, which it probably will be, or they’ll do it in other ways. [00:05:03] Christina: These remaining tickets are going to hit the open market, not at, at the, the face prices. Um, as, as you know, um, raises those might have been because of various v i p packs and other things. So there’s, I think it’s just like the lack of transparency with all this that has, uh, that is probably worthy of investigation, um, hilariously. [00:05:26] Christina: The, you know, the focal point of this, everyone has been complaining about this for, for 25 years. I mean, Pearl Jam again famously, uh, went to bat for this. And then when I saw Pearl Jam in concert in the year 2000, I got my tickets from Ticketmaster. So Pearl Jam, you know, like Eddie put in the good fight but did not succeed. [00:05:45] Christina: Um, and, uh, you know, um, aeg, who is Ticketmaster’s only competitor, is actually the, the sponsor, the, I guess the promoter of Taylor’s concert. They couldn’t use their own ticketing service because most of the venues have hundred year [00:06:00] plus agreements with, with the Ticketmaster. [00:06:04] Jeff: Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. That’s a, that’s a thing. [00:06:07] Christina: Yeah. [00:06:09] Brett: A hundred year [00:06:09] Christina: thing that should be illegal. [00:06:11] Jeff: Oh my fucking God. [00:06:13] Brett: mean, this whole thing is insane. Like, I can’t believe, I can’t believe they get away with this. Um, I don’t know what kind of regulation needs to happen to, to fix all of these problems. And like, there’s a whole thing with like Verizon and Ticketmaster and like, uh, like, uh, earmarking tickets for, like, specifically for VIP customers and like all this weird stuff that happens and the artists get screwed in all of this. [00:06:42] Brett: It’s not the artists that are benefiting, it’s just Ticketmaster. [00:06:46] Christina: it’s just take a master. Well, that’s the thing, right? When these resales happen, it’s not as if Taylor Swift or Adele or Bruce Springsteen or, you know, even smaller artists are benefiting from the scalping, [00:07:00] right. Because they’re not getting any, any payback from that. Um, although it would be bad optics for them, many way, like I’m sure that to a certain extent, like Taylor Swift doesn’t mind that her shows are sold out, but at another extent, and, and, you know, I, I was actually impressed she said anything about this and even expressed any amount of kind of frustration with the process because she loves money and these are the people who. You know, um, control the venues where she has to play. Uh, and, and she’s now at the stage in her career. Um, she and very few other artists like it. It’s a very small number of artists who can only play stadiums. She can only play stadiums. And, um, and it’s not like people are like, oh, well Garth Brooks just has another show until he can’t still out anymore. [00:07:43] Christina: I’m like, there’s not enough time. She’s doing 53 shows in the US in a six month period of time. It’s backing up until the start of football season. The next time she can tour the US would be a year later for a second leg, and then she can’t do anything else but tour. Right? And, and bands have [00:08:00] done that before, but, um, you know, that’s, that’s not exactly what you wanna do. [00:08:06] Christina: But yeah, to me, one of the more egregious things is the fact that like Ticketmaster has these, and this is not a joke, I’m not being hyperbolic as I often am. This is for real. They’re a hundred year plus contracts with the, the venues with Ticketmaster that says no matter who owns them, and this is true even for venues that are owned in some cases by aeg, the competitor, [00:08:29] Brett: That is insidious. [00:08:31] Christina: years beforehand, so they can’t do anything about [00:08:35] Brett: That is, that is just that, just, I just see Mr. Burns, [00:08:40] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:08:41] Jeff: That is exactly it. [00:08:42] Christina: It is totally what it is. [00:08:45] Jeff: yeah. [00:08:46] Brett: Excellent. [00:08:47] Christina: And, and, and like, and I mean, honestly the stuff like Verizon or other big companies having, you know, like v i p tickets to give to people, that’s such small potatoes, right? Like that [00:08:57] Brett: there’s some, there’s some scandal around. I remember [00:09:00] when I was watching one of these, uh, like I don’t remember Daily Show or, uh, or uh, some more news or something was taking on Ticketmaster and talking about all of the [00:09:10] Christina: probably John Oliver. [00:09:11] Brett: Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, you’re right. I think it was, I think it was last week tonight. [00:09:15] Brett: Did Ticketmaster? [00:09:17] Christina: Yeah. He did this like last year. I think we should find it and link to it. It’s, it’s good. But no, the whole thing is I, look, I’m, I’m, um, I’m mad for what I’m gonna wind up paying for the Atlanta show. Uh, I’m glad that I had tickets, uh, that I got for my friends, um, and I in New Jersey. And then, um, I was able to get a ticket to the second show in Seattle. [00:09:39] Christina: Um, what kills me is not just the scalpers and the bots at this point. There’s real demand, I think, for this particular show. But the secondary thing that people don’t talk about, and this is affecting so many things, and, and this is a cultural thing, this is societal thing, and I don’t know if like the regulation would help this, but, but it [00:10:00] certainly would give some more, you know, competition is that you have, um, this whole subclass of people now who, because of the pandemic and because of, uh, scarcity, have now seen that this is something that they can make money on through arbitrage by just buying things they think are going to be in great, um, demand and low supply. [00:10:21] Christina: So you saw this happen two years ago with, with GPUs and with PlayStations and with boxes. You’ve also seen it happen with sneakers where you have regular people who are just thinking, oh, this is gonna be a quick way for me to make. and I’m just gonna buy these things and then sell them on the secondary market for more. [00:10:39] Christina: Um, I’m hoping that this is just gonna come out to bite people in the ass much like it has in the sneaker market, cuz the sneaker market is completely like plateaued. And you have a ton of people who bought just ridiculous amounts of shoes with the hopes of reselling them. And then the, the, the bottom kind of, you know, collapsed out of that. [00:10:57] Christina: I’m hoping that just [00:11:00] the sheer number of supply of tickets for this show and other shows will mean that people who are trying to gouge people. Cuz here’s the thing, if you buy a $500 floor seat, that then has, you know, $200 in fees and you’ve gotta then pay, you know, your fees with the reseller. If you wanna sell that for $1,200, okay, fine. [00:11:20] Christina: Right? Like I can see that. But 12,000. That’s when I’m just going, you got greedy Martin to go back to the Simpsons. Right? And, and, and wanna like smack people over the head because that just becomes gross and then that sets a baseline and an expectation that people can get that. So I don’t know. There’s this weird, fucked up, greedy cultural thing like two years ago. [00:11:43] Christina: I spent a ridiculous amount of time, frankly cuz it was fun for me, but also because I just didn’t wanna see families paying scalpers for PlayStations or Xboxes for their kids for the holidays. But I got like 18 families and that’s not an exaggeration. PlayStations or [00:12:00] Xboxes at retail or through a bundle. [00:12:02] Christina: That was actually a, a decent bundle for the holidays. And it took me a lot of time to do that, but I was like, I’ll be damned if people I know are going to be paying double or triple for a PlayStation. You know, like that’s a mass market item that’s stupid. Like Taylor Swift again, I can see like the adult tickets that I’m getting from my mom that are not even good seats. [00:12:22] Christina: I can see. It’s like these are a true scarce item in, in a sense. Um, a PlayStations and GPUs are not. Um, but it was just like, just to see, and, and I consider myself a fairly pro capitalism person, but this isn’t capitalism. This is like putting your finger on the scale. Like this is like actually kind of the opposite of that, of people just being like, we wanna exert as much, um, power as we can to, you know, make the, the natural demand curve, um, not exist so that we can be as greedy as possible. [00:12:52] Christina: And it’s like, you, you fucking assholes, you [00:12:54] Brett: This has been one hell of a, Christina ran to open the show [00:12:57] Christina: I was gonna say, I’m done now I’m done. So [00:13:00] that’s, that’s my rant. [00:13:00] Jeff: Wait, wait, wait. I have a, I have [00:13:02] Brett: no, Jeff, don’t. Don’t do it. Don’t fucking do [00:13:05] Jeff: have a question. [00:13:06] Christina: I will be very quick. I will very [00:13:08] Jeff: I have a question you can [00:13:09] Brett: Oh my God. Oh my God. [00:13:10] Jeff: a question that we can’t answer. The question is just to move us out of this. Does Garth Brook still fly? [00:13:17] Christina: I have no idea. [00:13:19] Jeff: Okay. Hmm. And then I wished I was looking for a picture of a ticket stub. I have. I saw Olivia Newton John on her 30th birthday, um, and, uh, on the physical tour when I was a kid and the, and we were in, I think, the 22nd row on the main floor. I bet that fucking ticket was about $15, which, like, even with inflation, is still nowhere near what we would’ve today. [00:13:43] Jeff: Jesus, [00:13:44] Christina: I mean, and frankly, and, and, and this is the only thing I’ll say about, That’s kind of stunning to me that that was what you paid them because Okay. Even let’s say you had inflation of, of four or five times, which you would not have. Right? Because that was like 82, 83. Um, [00:14:00] that was height of her. [00:14:01] Christina: Like that was like peak, [00:14:02] Jeff: total peak. Yeah. I mean, [00:14:05] Christina: That was peak pop, star living. Newton John. Like she had a huge career in the seventies, but this was like peak number one on billboard, like physical, like peak. Olivia, Newton John. Amazing seats. $15 probably. Wow. And also what an experience for you. That’s so cool. [00:14:20] Jeff: It was a great show except I was then an M now a huge Grease fan and they brought out some dude they must have kept in the green room every night for most of the show to sing John Travolta’s parts and he was so not John Travolta in every possible way and she was so Thousand percent Olivia Newton John, right, that like it was, it was a very disappointing imbalance. [00:14:44] Jeff: But physical is awesome cuz you know there were some leotards and some dancers. [00:14:48] Christina: I can’t even imagine. My very first concert was Paula Abdul, and I was like seven. And, um, I was, or, or six or something. And, and I was, I remember being [00:15:00] sort of confused. Like I knew that the cat wasn’t real, but I was like, how was she gonna dance with the cat? And, and they just had like a video screen behind her. [00:15:09] Jeff: What was that song? [00:15:10] Christina: Um, um, opposites Tracked. [00:15:11] Jeff: Yes. Not not Cold-Hearted Snake. [00:15:14] Christina: No, that’s the one with the, was that the one with Le with Kean Reeves? No, Kean Reeves is in, um, rush. Rush. [00:15:21] Jeff: Oh [00:15:21] Christina: He’s in that video. Yeah. [00:15:23] Jeff: I love it. I love it. [00:15:26] Christina: All right. We’re done Brett. [00:15:27] This is where it ends. That was really really long. Brett got super fuckin’ bored, but he’ll deal with it. [00:15:27] Brett: Okay. [00:15:28] Jeff: Hey, we ended on an Olivia Newton John [00:15:30] Christina: We did. It was a very nice note. [00:15:32] I hear Marimbas, or Mental Health Corner [00:15:32] Brett: I feel like we should, uh, cue up some, some Olivia Newton John to segue us into some kind of mental health corner. I think we should have, I think I want, when I give Erin some like guidelines for like what kind of music we want for our different segments, I really, I hear like Mabas and castanets to go into, to go into the mental health corner, like a real 1950s martini [00:15:57] Jeff: I just say, wait, wait. Can I just say that [00:16:00] I hear Mabas could be your mental health check in [00:16:03] Christina: I hear Mambas. Okay. That that would actually be great. No, but I, I kind of love this. Yeah, I kinda have like a fifties, kind of like that sort of thing. And then that could be like our catcher. I hear Remems, you know what that means? It’s time. Ment Health Quarter [00:16:17] Brett: Mental health corner. [00:16:20] Christina: is brought to you this week by Ovaltine. [00:16:23] Brett: I, uh, I need, I need to recover from, from our, our intro segment. So if someone else would like to give us a mental health check in while I like reset myself here, [00:16:35] Christina: Yes. [00:16:35] Brett: that would be awesome. [00:16:36] Jeff: Oh boy. [00:16:37] Christina: Um, mine is pretty basic. So I’m, uh, I’m in, uh, I’m in Atlanta for until next week. Um, so we’re recording this on. Wednesday, uh, the day before Thanksgiving. So I’m gonna be here until next Wednesday, actually. And then I leave like Wednesday morning, fly back to um, Seattle. So it’s a fairly long visit. I forgot that Thanksgiving was this week [00:17:00] because, uh, I’m bad at things like that. [00:17:02] Christina: So, um, my mother-in-law is, is, um, having some health, um, problems. So my, my husband, I flew him to see her, which I’m actually really happy he was able to go do that. So she’s in Jacksonville, I’m in Atlanta. They’re close. But, uh, for, for just various reasons. I’m, I’m, I’m not with him this time, but, um, I am in Atlanta and I’m with my family, and that’s really nice. [00:17:24] Christina: I’m glad that I’ve been coming home as, as frequently as, even though Atlanta doesn’t feel like home. But it’s just the easiest thing to say. I’m glad that in the last, year and a half, you know, since my nephew was born, I’ve been able to. Be home as frequently as possible and see my parents and my sister and stuff, because, you know, people aren’t getting any younger. [00:17:44] Christina: And, um, this is always a hard time of the year for us. Sunday is the 11th anniversary of my aunt and uncle, passing away after, uh, they got in a car accident two days after Thanksgiving in, um, in 2011. So Sunday is the 11th [00:18:00] anniversary of that. So, um, Thanksgiving is hard for our family, but I’m, I’m really glad that I’m here. [00:18:06] Christina: And, I’m also just kind of glad, like I can turn my brain off other than, you know, uh, ranting about Ticketmaster. So that’s, that, that, that, that’s, that’s my check in. [00:18:15] Brett: I feel like you have your, uh, does your family do like a Thanksgiving dinner and everyone talks about what they’re grateful for? [00:18:23] Christina: No. [00:18:24] Brett: Oh, well, if, if they did, I feel like your mental health check-in would be a great like Thanksgiving table. I’m thankful to be home. I’m grateful to be with family. Yeah. I feel like you, I feel like you covered the Thanksgiving episode really well right there. [00:18:39] Christina: Thank you. [00:18:40] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Jeff, do you want to go or should I. [00:18:45] Jeff: Um, I can go. I’m traveling. So it’s interesting like I. When I’m traveling, I just do my best to sort of maintain, make sure, take meds on time, you know, gr grumpy, figure out why. Um, but [00:19:00] I’m not nearly as sort of in tune with myself as I am when I’m home. Um, but I can say that I’m visiting my in-laws today and the next couple days, and I just came from my father and stepmother’s house for like a day and a half, and I didn’t think I wanted to leave town. [00:19:18] Jeff: I felt like I wanted to stay in town. Um, we just had a lot going on over the last couple months, but the second I was out the door and in the car first with my own family, and then, uh, hanging out with my dad and stepmother playing a game they invented called Tortilla toss, um, which involves some rather elaborate, um, construction on their part. [00:19:41] Jeff: Um, and then just the, the sort of the, the thing I would, I just wanna. Point to as being a nice reminder to myself is that my, um, my stepmom, I’m from a small town in Iowa, only lived there for the first two years of my life, and then every summer and winter break, um, until I was 18. Um, my [00:20:00] stepmother, who’s an artist, works with a gallery downtown and downtown in my hometown is literally just like a street. [00:20:06] Jeff: Um, and in the basement, she decided to turn it into a music performance space where every Wednesday night anybody can come with an instrument, whether you’re awesome or terrible, and you’ll, you’ll find a place on the stage at some point with what has become this sort of like house band. And I was able to go see that space after hearing about it for the last couple months and see a bunch of pictures and, um, it was just an amazing, it’s just amazing how. How you can do community building, um, in, in ways that maybe you would’ve never thought of before. And then once you’ve done it, you’re like, Jesus Christ, why didn’t this already exist? Cause like from the time she started, the place is just flooded with people from, like, people that played in orchestras to this. [00:20:51] Jeff: There’s an unhoused dude that comes in and sings every week. Um, and, uh, , there’s people that wanna beat each other up, and so they have to take space a little bit. You [00:21:00] know, like there’s this like, it’s, it’s like true community . And it was [00:21:03] Brett: Ted [00:21:04] Jeff: to see. Yeah, [00:21:05] Brett: you remember the episode where he brings in the street musician to play the charity ball? Yeah, [00:21:11] Christina: I love. [00:21:11] Jeff: Love that. [00:21:12] Jeff: It’s just, it’s nice to see family, it’s nice to be reminded of things that I would never do to build a community and then to realize how doing something like that can make such a difference for people. [00:21:24] Jeff: It’s a corny thing to say, but it was like pretty fucking cool. [00:21:27] Brett: Nice. That’s awesome. Um, so I, I have officially gone more than a month with automatic episode and, um, like there have been a couple times where I felt it coming on and did some self care routines and some, uh, and implemented some structure in my life that kept it from, I’d never, I haven’t lost a single night of sleep. [00:21:53] Brett: I’ve had some insomnia. I’ve had like some low sleep, but it hasn’t resulted in. [00:22:00] You know, five days of no sleep and manic production. And I’ve also been producing content. Um, I’ve been writing, I’ve been working, I’ve been programming and like doing things that if I were depressed I wouldn’t be able to do. [00:22:20] Brett: So I feel like this kind of idea. curbing my mania, has led to something closer to what I kind of hope stable is like. Um, I’ve continued to read Marbles and Rock Steady by Ellen Forney, which has been, very enlightening. but, uh, her medication journey was a lot like mine and I think, uh, Jeff could relate to it too. [00:22:45] Brett: If you’ve never read marbles, I will send you a copy. I have an extra copy I’m gonna send you, send it to [00:22:50] Jeff: do, please. [00:22:52] Brett: But yeah, I am as close to stable as I’ve ever been. Um, I have exciting things happening on the job front [00:23:00] and I will talk about them eventually, but, uh, for now I’ll just say, Life is good and, and I don’t, I didn’t travel for Thanksgiving and I don’t have to see any family for Thanksgiving, which for me is like, I get a mental health day Thursday. [00:23:18] Brett: Uh, like Al and I both have completely off no obligations, no yoga classes, no work, no family, and we get to just have like a day, uh, to kind of recover from life. And it’s gonna be awesome. I’m very much looking forward to it. [00:23:36] Christina: I love that. I love that. I think like, Historically, even before my aunt and my uncle died, like I’ve never really been a big Thanksgiving person. Like, it’s just never been like, I don’t like the food, uh, my extended family. Uh, and I’ve, you know, there are people who I’m happy to see and there are people who I’m just kind of like, I don’t really care. [00:23:56] Christina: So I, um, I’m not one of those people who like, [00:24:00] you know, extols like the virtues of like needing to like see your family or be with people like on Thanksgiving. Like I just, I get that. So I’m really glad that you and l had this time to de compressed because like we can all be grateful for that. You know what I mean? [00:24:13] Brett: Yeah, yeah, Christmas. Christmas is gonna be, uh, a trial for me. Like my whole family is coming to town. Um, I’m gonna have to see like six nieces and nephews, plus a bunch of extended family, mostly very fundamentalist Christian that I don’t enjoy hanging out with. And my mom, my parents’ anniversary is right around Christmas and uh, I think this is their 50th and they’re having a square dance [00:24:46] Jeff: Oh, wow. [00:24:48] Brett: And they’ve had one in the past. I think they had one for like their 40th anniversary and it, it turned out to be kind of fun. Um, it’s like, it’s like poka [00:25:00] music when you live in Minnesota, you’re like, PO’s stupid. But then you go to a poker night and you have fun. It’s, it’s fun. So I think I can have fun at this square dance, but also I’m not, like right now I’m very uncomfortable with my like, physical shape and not feeling like getting out on a dance floor. [00:25:19] Brett: So we’ll see what happens. I’m gonna try to be a really good sport about it cuz it means so much to my mom. That’s how they met with square Dancing [00:25:28] Jeff: Oh my God. Wow. [00:25:30] Christina: that’s kind of amazing. [00:25:31] Brett: Yeah, that’s that. Thus the anniversary Square dance. But [00:25:35] Christina: I was gonna say cuz that, that didn’t make any sense to me, but I [00:25:38] Jeff: like, that’s random. [00:25:40] Brett: Yeah, I kind of forgot about that. [00:25:42] Christina: but I was also like not gonna like, Question it. I was just gonna be like, okay. You know? Cool. [00:25:47] Brett: Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s how my family rolls. [00:25:52] Jeff: That’s amazing. Heel toe. Heel toe. Slide, slide, slide. That’s what I remember from Square dancing in gym [00:25:56] Christina: Yeah, I, I was gonna say like, did you guys have the square dance in middle [00:26:00] school? [00:26:00] Jeff: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. [00:26:03] Christina: Yep. That maybe that’s just like a [00:26:04] Brett: Walts Foxtrot square dance. Yeah. [00:26:08] Jeff: Man, you had to do that shit in Atlanta. [00:26:10] Christina: Oh yeah. They would play these records, bow your partner, bow your corner, [00:26:17] Jeff: Mm-hmm. [00:26:18] Christina: know, stare and like go round and round. It was just terrible. Yeah. [00:26:22] Brett: yep. Yeah, it’s, it’s even weirder when you have a live color for the square dance and they get very into it and they will like, call you up Personally. It, it gets weird, but, right. Should we do, uh, should we do a little sponsor block here? [00:26:36] Jeff: Sure. [00:26:36] Christina: should. [00:26:38] Brett: All right. Christina, tell us about OC Doc. [00:26:41] Sponsor: Zocdoc [00:26:41] Christina: Yes. So, if you’re a fan of it, sushi is incredible, but gas station sushi not so much. Finding the right sushi makes all the difference. And the same goes for finding the right doctor. [00:26:53] Christina: With zocdoc, you can find the right doctor for you in your network and in your neighborhood, one that makes [00:27:00] you feel like you’re in good hands, that you’re supported, and you’re heard, even if you’re just telling them about your favorite sushi place. ZO Doc is a free app that shows you doctors who are patient, reviewed, take your insurance, and are available when you need them. [00:27:16] Christina: You can find every specialist under the sun, whether you’re trying to straighten those teeth, fix that icky back, get a mold checked or anything else. OC Doc has you covered. OC Doc’s mobile app is as easy as ordering a ride to a restaurant or getting delivery to your house. Search, find and book doctors with a few taps you can find and review local doctors. [00:27:37] Christina: You can read verified patient reviews from real people who made real appointments. And now when you walk into that doctor’s office, you’re all set to see someone in your network who gets you. So you can go to zocdoc.com, find the doctor that’s right for you, and book an appointment in person or remotely that works for your schedule. [00:27:57] Christina: Every month millions of people use OC Doc. I’m one [00:28:00] of them. I’ve been using it as my go-to whenever I need to find a quality doctor for over a decade now. It is definitely one of my most used services. So you can go to oc doc.com/ Overtired and download the OC Doc app for free. And then you start a search for a top rated doctor today. [00:28:19] Christina: Many are available within 24 hours. That is zocdoc.com/ Overtired zoc.com/ Overtired. [00:28:31] Brett: Thank you, Christina. [00:28:33] Jeff: Woo. [00:28:34] Brett: Round of applause. I don’t have a, I don’t have an applause. Sound effect loaded. [00:28:39] Jeff: Um, I’ll take the next one. [00:28:42] Brett: Rock on [00:28:44] Sponsor: Simplisafe [00:28:44] Jeff: Mm, simply safe. Did you know that over the holidays, property crimes like burglaries and packaged thefts spike nationally? That’s why our friends at Simply Safe Home Security are offering 50% off their award-winning security [00:29:00] system so that more families can feel safe and secure this holiday season. [00:29:03] Jeff: Too late for you though if it’s Thanksgiving that you wanted to protect yourself against. That was my insert. Order your Simply Safe System for half off today and enjoy advanced security and greater peace of mind this holiday season. Here’s why we love it. Simply Safe was named the best home security system of 2022 by US News and World Report, a third year in a row [00:29:25] Jeff: In an emergency 24 7 professional monitoring agents used Fast protect TM technology exclusively from simply safe to capture critical evidence and verify the threat is real so that you can get priority police response. I need something in my brain that can verify a threat is real. [00:29:44] Jeff: Wouldn’t that be good? Something might. I’d just squeeze it in there right by the amygdala. Okay. Simply safe is whole home security with advanced sensors for every room, window and door. HD security cameras for inside and out smarter ways to detect motion that alert you [00:30:00] only when a threat is real. And even hazard sensors that detect fires, floods, and other threats from your home. [00:30:06] Jeff: 24 7. Professional monitoring service costs under a dollar a day. Less than half the price of ADTs traditional, professionally installed system. C adt, what you could have done, you could have been here, but instead it’s simply safe with the top rated. Simply Safe App. Stay in complete control of your system. [00:30:25] Jeff: Anytime, anywhere, arm or disarm. Unlock for a guest. Access your cameras or adjust system settings. Don’t miss your chance for massive savings on our favorite security system. Get 50% off any new system@simplysafe.com slash Overtired today. This is their biggest discount of the year. [00:30:45] Jeff: That’s S I M P L I S A E slash Overtired. There’s no safe, like simply safe. [00:30:55] Brett: Dot com slash Overtired, but we’ll accept it. We’ll allow it. [00:30:59] Don’t worry, it’s not real [00:30:59] Brett: [00:31:00] Um, if you have stuck with us this far through the sponsor block, um, like we were told, we should split these up. People listen to them more if they’re not all in one block, but if you stuck with it, I have a podcast to tell you about. Have you ever wondered exactly what would happen if you licked a hotel remote control Tune in every week to hear the hosts of Hotel horrors describe another terrifying disease present in almost every hotel, you will never travel again. [00:31:29] Brett: That’s Hotel Horrors on the Hallmark network. [00:31:34] Jeff: Oh, hallmark picked that up. [00:31:37] Christina: Yeah, that’s, uh, that’s amazing that that’s, uh, that, that goes in line with like their, their content [00:31:44] Brett: yeah. Don’t, don’t look that up. It’s, it’s prob it’s probably not real. [00:31:49] Christina: I love it. [00:31:51] Get yer NVMe SSDs! [00:31:51] Brett: Um, so I gotta, I gotta offer a tech tip. Um, so I’ve been following, uh, Amazon’s early Black Friday [00:32:00] deals. And one thing that has popped up. So first one, terabyte, N V M A SSD cards popped up, uh, for like a hundred dollars per terabyte. And, uh, so I, I ordered four and I also ordered a new, uh, four M two enclosure from O W O wc, other world computing. [00:32:25] Brett: Um, so that would give me a raid zero four terabyte SSD drive over Thunderbolt three that is as fast, almost as fast by internal hard drive. And then, and then Amazon lets me know that they have two terabyte drives for $150. Um, It adds up. You, you have four of those. You can do the math, but like that, that’s not a cheap hard drive, but that would give you eight terabytes of, with a right speed up to [00:33:00] 3,500 megabytes per megabytes per second. [00:33:03] Brett: Um, it is a fantastic deal. So if you are looking for, if you’re doing video editing, audio editing, looking for something to, or any video work you’re doing, and you need a super fast external drive with some significant storage, check out Amazon Steels. I’ll link the, uh, the gold P three, P 31 SSDs, um, that I found from sk. [00:33:30] Brett: He, [00:33:31] Christina: Yeah, those are pretty good too. I have to say. Like they’re not as good as, um, like the western. Um, and uh, uh, Seagate have some that are like a little bit higher performing, but I have one of those P 31 s and it’s awesome. [00:33:47] Brett: Yeah, I, uh, the first ones I ordered, I ordered four one terabyte Samsung SSD nine eighties. That I will probably send back now because I got those for like [00:34:00] 1 25 a piece, but now I can get two terabytes for one 50. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna trade up for like double, double the size for an extra 30 bucks. [00:34:11] Brett: Sure. [00:34:12] Jeff: rolling around in terabytes like they were dollar bills. [00:34:14] Brett: And the, uh, the four M two enclosure from O WC is $250 for just the enclosure. Um, but, uh, if you were to buy the same amount of storage on like external, like those little one two terabyte, like square drives you can buy, uh, you would be spending more than this. And their speeds are half as good as, as for raid zero and BME drives. [00:34:42] Brett: So I highly recommend this. [00:34:45] Christina: Yeah. Um, I will say if, um, if you’re not, if you are looking for like one of the better SSDs you can get, just in terms of performance, it’s a hundred bucks. Right now, the, the Western digital SN seven 70, uh, there is uh, an eight 70, [00:35:00] which is even faster, but the seven 70 is really, really good. That’s only one terabyte. [00:35:03] Christina: But if you were, for some reason, you needed something more than 3,500, um, megabytes, which. Obviously very fast, but for some reason, if you’re gaming or whatever, um, the, uh, the s n seven 70 is like 5,000. Um, uh, megabit per second. Megabyte per second transfer. It’s a, it’s a, um, a PCI gen four and it’s, it’s a hundred bucks right now. [00:35:25] Brett: Yeah. And the two terabyte is 180. [00:35:28] Christina: Yep. [00:35:29] Brett: Nice. Um, adding that to the show notes, [00:35:33] Jeff: I [00:35:34] Brett: SN seven 70. [00:35:35] The Walking Tired [00:35:35] Jeff: I have something to say. It’s not about, not about hard drives today. Um, I finished The Walking Dead. I watched the season series finale, which I think, I don’t know. Oh no, [00:35:50] Christina: No, it didn’t. [00:35:51] Jeff: no. What I wanted to talk about, and the best part is it ends and then immediately promotes three new shows. Darrell Dixon, which I’m down for [00:36:00] Darrell Dixon as a show. [00:36:00] Jeff: Fine, no problem. [00:36:01] Brett: should have been a spinoff a [00:36:03] Jeff: him in any, what they should do. They should do a kind of fan fiction type thing where they put him in other universes, you know? Um, like he’s in the Harry Potter universe. He’d be great in the Harry Potter universe, right? Like, so good. Um, or a better yet, put him in the World War Z universe. [00:36:17] Jeff: Do you see [00:36:17] Brett: Darrell Dixon as [00:36:18] Jeff: fucking zombies are super fast? Yes. So there’s Darrell Dixon, there’s, there’s Rick and Macon, and then there’s something called Dead City. And, and I’m just, I’m just like the fuck, why would, no. So here’s the thing I wanted to ask you all. Is there like a, you know how you got like AUMs razor and whatever, all these different laws that explain patterns of behavior that appear over and over again. [00:36:41] Jeff: How the fuck, and we don’t have to spend too much time on this, how when that show started so strong and at the point of its, you know, the beginning of its decline was so flush with cash, how is it that they could not pay the money it would take to [00:37:00] get good storytellers to help continuing, to help to continue building out their world? [00:37:05] Jeff: Why, why it got so fucking bad? [00:37:08] Brett: a really good question. [00:37:10] Jeff: Cause they didn’t have to. I think it is, they didn’t have [00:37:12] Brett: it lost me. I, they, they have to have lost millions of viewers, like they lost me and I was a hardcore, I was a hardcore t wd fan. Loved it. And then like shortly after, uh, I lasted a couple seasons after me. Megan [00:37:31] Christina: Yeah. [00:37:31] Jeff: N. [00:37:32] Brett: Negan. Negan. Yeah. Me, [00:37:34] Jeff: as in Negan. [00:37:36] Brett: a millennial girl’s name. [00:37:37] Brett: But, um, yeah, I lasted a couple seasons till like Negan was like all, it kind of became a good guy a little bit, and then I just, I just lost my heart for it. I couldn’t take the ups and downs anymore. Um, I, I don’t know. Like, I feel like you could say the same thing about Game of Thrones last season or two. [00:37:59] Jeff: that, not that [00:38:00] big of a dip. [00:38:00] Christina: No, and I think, I think that them, like, I’ll give Game of Thrones a little bit more of a pass, and so far as like they were expecting to have some source material to use and they didn’t. [00:38:12] Jeff: Yeah. [00:38:13] Brett: sure. Yeah. [00:38:14] Jeff: Famously, [00:38:15] Christina: and so like, uh, you know, that, that puts you in kind of a precarious situation where you’re now having to create lo for something you didn’t previously created on. [00:38:25] Christina: And. I, so I give ’em a little bit of a pass. But for, for, uh, walking Dead, I mean, it’s interesting because I watched Fear of Walking Dead as well, and that one weirdly, I think like now Alicia’s finally gone and so I don’t know if I’m gonna even continue at that point cuz I’m like, all right, now all the original characters I think are basically gone. [00:38:46] Christina: I think they brought the mom back or something, but that’s been one that I, that I haven’t been like super into, but it also dropped off. But it, it, it still had some aspects. I don’t think it dropped off to the same degree, but my honest thought is that with the [00:39:00] spinoffs, all of the other franchise things they had with it, that, yeah, they obviously lost viewers, but. [00:39:08] Christina: Somebody had to run the numbers and been like, well, if we pay the money to make it better, is that going to necessarily like, bring us an influx of viewers, or are these people just kind of gone? Because these are the waves, these shows go in, and as long as we keep a show running, we will have people either hate watching it or just watching it out of, you know, like attrition. [00:39:28] Christina: So let’s just suck all the money out of it. It’s like a Grey’s Anatomy thing. Um, which incidentally, Ellen Pompeo is finally leaving after 19 years. 19 years on that show. But the show is, I guess, gonna continue. I mean [00:39:44] Brett: Is that still on Jesus Christ? [00:39:47] Christina: and Meredith Gray is going to leave, but the show will at least continue on through the rest of the season. [00:39:54] Christina: It’s, do they get renewed at the end of for, for next year? Probably not, but who knows? [00:39:59] Brett: it [00:40:00] as bad as the Simpsons are now? Like is it just going through the motions? [00:40:05] Christina: Oh yeah. Yeah. And, and what’s what’s funny is that, uh, uh, Ellen Pompeo, the, the actress, I do kind of love her because she’s been very upfront about this. She’s like, look, I know that I will never be able to get any other working role ever again because I’m too associated with this character and, and, and, and I will never be able to get real work again. [00:40:27] Christina: So she’s, for more than a decade, been like, fuck you, pay me. And like, insisting on them paying her an insane amount of money. And I respect that. Also, just kind of phoning it. I’m like, yeah, you are right. You will never work again. You will never be cast in anything meaningful ever again, not because you’re not talented, but because no one will ever be able to write [00:40:49] Brett: gray. That’s it. [00:40:51] Christina: That’s it. So, I, I, but, but with her finally leaving, I’m like, oh my God. So. You know, so, but, but, but like, why would [00:41:00] ABC keep this show on the air? Especially since viewerships have fallen? It must be international. It must be something. It’s the only thing I can figure. That’s my CCAs RA razor theory is that they don’t have to. [00:41:11] Jeff: I like that. That is, I can see how that could become the problem. It’s, it’s still astonishing. It’s like that thing where like, you know, when you use a really shitty remote control, which is like all of them, but when you use a really, really shitty one, and my first thought is like, how many fucking meetings did this thing sail through and why? I feel like that about every episode of The Walking Dead after like season seven, [00:41:33] Brett: Can you [00:41:33] Jeff: how is it that there wasn’t someone to say, Hey, can you just make. A little more interesting, you know, like, or, [00:41:40] Brett: if they had killed Darrell, can you imagine like if Darrell left the show, if, if, what’s his name? [00:41:47] Jeff: Norman Revis. [00:41:49] Christina: Yes. [00:41:50] Brett: Yes. So can you imagine if he decided he was done? Cause honestly, he could still get work. Like he’s not, so he’s [00:42:00] not in the situation where he could never play another part. Like he could go back to, he could do Boondock Saints three and, and get the, and get the gig. But like if he had left, uh, if the writers had decided, Ooh, let’s big twist, let’s kill Darrell. [00:42:17] Brett: That show would’ve ended a long time ago. [00:42:20] Jeff: I mean, I said that all the way through as I was watching those seasons. I’m like, you better not [00:42:24] Brett: Better not fucking kill Darrell. [00:42:27] Jeff: Yeah. [00:42:29] Brett: Yeah, for sure. [00:42:30] Jeff: it was [00:42:30] Christina: My, uh, my, my former colleague at, um, uh, Gizmoto, um, Rob, um, used to write, or, or I nine used to write, um, walking Dead Recaps and for like, years and, and, and his were like famous and like for years his walking dead recaps were just his, him just like, like hate watching and just eviscerating everything in the show. [00:42:53] Christina: And it was such a great, like, read. So, uh, Rob, um, Rob Bricken, so, [00:43:00] um, oh actually he, I will publish this cuz this, or I put this on the show notes cuz this, um, uh, was published 17 minutes ago. It turns out the Walking Dead was me all along. I’ve spent 10 full years recapping the once popular Zombie TV series and it, and it comes with a cost. [00:43:15] Christina: I haven’t read this yet, but I, knowing Rob who’s fantastic, uh, this I bet is just a great, great read. Here, I’ll, I’ll read the final paragraph. Looking back at a full decade of recapping the Walking Dead, I can’t help but feel, oh my God, how did I spend a decade of my life watching this show? That overall, I don’t think I enjoyed the fact that it overlaps almost exactly with my tenure at I nine complicates things immensely for me, since I, since overall, I’ve enjoyed my time here, minus a real life super villain. [00:43:46] Christina: Or two, the two experiences are inextricably linked for me and will be for a while, I suspect. But right now, I have no ability to truly understand what I’ve done or has been done to me. I’m in Sens. I’m in Sensate, numbless, lifeless. [00:44:00] After 10 long years, I am the Walking Dead. But if nothing else, the Walking Dead is giving me one piece of advice to help guide me through this difficult transition in my life. [00:44:08] Christina: All the way back to my very first episode that aired on October 31st, 2010. Um, you know, um, don’t open dead. [00:44:21] Jeff: Uh, that’s amazing. [00:44:24] Grapptitude, Black Friday edition! [00:44:24] Brett: can you link that for us in the show notes? Should we, uh, should we do some gratitude? [00:44:28] Brett: Cuz there are some, uh, some Black Friday things that if this episode comes out in time, might be, uh, might be worth people knowing about. [00:44:36] Christina: absolutely. [00:44:37] Brett: All right. Who wants to start? I got some good ones. I’ll, uh, I’ll, I’ll jump in, but, uh, but if anyone else has one ready, go for it. [00:44:46] Jeff: Um, I don’t exactly, I have kind of a, like last week I was doing almost like follow up, gratitude and, uh, or gratitude follow up. And this time I just wanna say, I wanna, I wanna ask a question. Um, I. I have [00:45:00] been sort of going back and forth really for years between forklift and Pathfinder as finder alternatives. [00:45:07] Jeff: Um, and I have settled. I always end up settling on forklift even though every time there’s a new version of Pathfinder, I go, oh no, maybe that’s me [00:45:16] Brett: Same. Exactly the same. [00:45:18] Jeff: and what, so okay, so what is it like? So I’ve definitely landed back on forklifts, but like I can’t exactly tell you why. [00:45:27] Brett: is too configurable for me. Like I always feel like there’s an option I’m not using that would make this make more sense. Like, there’s some way to configure this that would just be perfect flow for me, but I never find it, I never find that exact combination. And forklift has fewer overall options, uh, fewer modules, et [00:45:51] Jeff: It’s actually, in my opinion, not configurable enough. [00:45:55] Brett: But you can configure every key keyboard shortcut. Like you [00:46:00] can go into preferences, change all your keyboard shortcuts. It has your two pane file management. It has excellent, uh, integration with cloud services. Uh, [00:46:09] Jeff: Yes it does. I use that. [00:46:11] Brett: to B2 drives to S3 drives. Like everything is, it’s just, and sftp and it’s, it just does the job smoothly without making me think that I’m missing out on anything. [00:46:27] Brett: And I always fall back to forklift [00:46:30] Jeff: I never thought I’d hear the day that I’d hear Brett turfs just say, it’s just too configurable. [00:46:35] Brett: There there is a limit. [00:46:38] Christina: There is a limit. Well, no, but I think, I think that that is so true. It’s like I, I never thought I would hear that either, but even Brett has, even Brett is like, look, it’s great to have options, but sometimes you have to make choices. [00:46:48] Brett: Yeah, there’s a, [00:46:50] Jeff: killing me smalls. [00:46:51] Brett: I love things that are extensible. I love things that are tweakable, but they’re, I have my limits. Like, like if, [00:47:00] okay, so forklift, you can create custom commands for forklift. Um, you can add commands that basically run Unix scripts for you. Uh, and you can make them, you can make them menu based commands. [00:47:13] Brett: And that’s the extensibility I want. I want to be able to tweak something that does exactly the, the thing that I want to do that nobody else would ever wanna do. I wanna make it do that and forklift can do it. Pathfinder offers you a hundred different modules that none of which really satisfy the specific itch that I have. [00:47:37] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s helpful. Yeah. Yeah. All right. There’s my gratitude. [00:47:43] Brett: forklift is forklift your pick. [00:47:44] Jeff: I think we’ve done it before, but it was more about like, It was more about that thing of like, man, why am I always willing to try something else when this ends up being the [00:47:54] Brett: powerful. Pathfinder is just like, it’s appealing because it’s so configurable. [00:48:00] By the way, I think both of these are available on setup, so, so setup users can take their pick, but yeah, forklift is, forklift is just a smoother, less mentally taxing experience for me. [00:48:14] Jeff: All right. There’s that. [00:48:17] Brett: Christina, you got anything? [00:48:19] Christina: Yeah, so there are a couple things. So you are gonna talk about, I think there are a bunch of Black Friday sales and Cyber Monday sales, um, that you mentioned, and I’m gonna talk about some too. Just cuz I think this is a good time. I would just completely just like follow on, with, yours. But, there are a bunch of, black Friday sales. [00:48:37] Christina: I think actually, Michael, si, um, has a really good, uh, overview of what some things are. We’ll link, um, his blog post, which I think he’s updating, uh, in the show notes too, but, It’s not their best one, but Bundle Hunt does have, a Black Friday bundle that has some decent apps in it, and I’m [00:49:00] pulling it up right now. [00:49:00] Christina: Okay. Some of them are, are, um, decent prices. So it’s one of those things where you unlock the bundle for $3 and 50 cents, and then you can add, you know, a bunch of things, um, to it. And so some of the things that are here, uh, there’s a, and you’ve used Fusion Cast, right? Uh, Brett. [00:49:16] Brett: No that, what is that? [00:49:18] Christina: So it’s like, let’s you turn your podcast episodes into videos. [00:49:22] Brett: Oh no. Maybe that’s what I used. I found something that did that. So if that’s one we’ve talked about on the show before, yes, I have used [00:49:30] Christina: Okay. I don’t know if that’s what you did or not. I thought that’s what it was. Anyway, it’s on sale for a dollar 50. Uh, um, let’s see. Air Buddy is on sale for three 50, uh, which is like a, you know, a, um, an uh, like. Bluetooth, uh, wireless, uh, control app. Um, there’s some other, um, things too. I’m trying to see. [00:49:50] Christina: Um, you can get a year of agenda premium for $5 if that’s an app. You [00:49:55] Brett: Great app. That’s a [00:49:56] Christina: that? I agree. Um, there is, [00:50:00] um, uh, let’s see they’ve got some bundles of some other like, like special effects and, and, uh, photo overlays and things for like $2, which is, is pretty good. There is, um, [00:50:11] Brett: Who to spot, who to geo. I’m just looking through Michael size list. Um, who to spot and who to geo are both on sale for, I would say looks like about 20% off. Um, I, I highly recommend who to spot. It’s a, it’s a great [00:50:27] Jeff: couldn’t recommend anything higher than I could [00:50:30] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Whos bought is great. Oh yeah, that’s a great one. Also, as part of that, uh, that bundle, this is, this is why I thought of this because you were mentioning, um, forklift and, um, Pathfinder. Yes. Uh, mountain Duck, which is, uh, forklift does some similar things in terms of being able to, to like, uh, load other, um, like, like, uh, basically, uh, load like a, like cloud services. Exactly. Mountain Duck is cross platform, which is really nice. It’s [00:51:00] from the people who make, uh, cyber Duck. [00:51:02] Brett: Yeah. Okay. [00:51:03] Christina: it’s on sale for, for, uh, for $8. [00:51:06] Christina: And it’s actually really good. I think, like if you’ve got, forklift is probably gonna work for most of your needs. Um, and if you already have one of those apps, it’s probably good. But if you are looking for something that can work both on Mac and Windows, Uh, mountain Duck is actually really, really good and it’s $8. [00:51:22] Christina: So, so I, so I’m throwing that out there. But yeah. Uh, Michaels on his blog post, he’s got a lot of, um, things that are listed. Yeah. Who to spot, who to go. That’s definitely, um, a, a good thing. And, Hal is, uh, they’re, they’re doing their first sale since 2018. The, the iPhone, um, camera app, which is really great. [00:51:41] Christina: And yeah. So there, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of good stuff. [00:51:45] Brett: Lincoln X is on this list. I thought Lincoln was dead. Um, I use launch control for this now and at launch Control from Selma Zone should eventually be a pick for us, but, uh, but apparently you can [00:52:00] get Lincoln X nine for 1275. These are, it’s a tool that runs launch D like helps you set up and run launch D jobs on a Mac, uh, which is the max version of like chron, uh, for, for running background tasks. [00:52:17] Brett: So it, it, like that used to be my go-to app, so I’m, I’m impressed to see it still alive. [00:52:22] Christina: Would you use now? [00:52:24] Brett: Uh, launch control from Selma zone, [00:52:27] Christina: Okay. [00:52:28] Brett: I’ll, I’ll throw that in the show notes cuz it is an outstanding up. And they also just came out with a new version, [00:52:33] Christina: Oh, flex Bit’s Premium is 50% off for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Um, [00:52:38] Brett: a bit like, uh, fantastic. [00:52:40] Christina: How? Yeah. , they’re, they’re noting that they’re gonna be making adjustments to their pricing January 3rd. Um, so if you’ve been wanting to subscribe, this is really a good way to do it. [00:52:51] Christina: Since things are 50% off, um, I, fantastical is one of those things that like, I so happily pay for. Like, I, I [00:53:00] don’t know. [00:53:00] Brett: it worked with, I wish it worked with, uh, uh, Microsoft 365, whatever. I can’t use it for work and it drives me nuts. [00:53:10] Christina: did I send you the, the way to use the V1 api and that still didn’t work. [00:53:15] Brett: It still didn’t work. Yep. I, uh, Oracle has some rules and it’s annoying. I miss, I miss fantastical. I do, I still actually use it, but then I also have to use Outlook calendar. [00:53:30] Christina: Right. [00:53:31] Brett: Right. For all of my work stuff it’s annoying, but yes, fantastical. If it, if it works for all of your calendars, fantastical is top. All right. Uh, throw some, throw some links to some of the stuff you’ve, you’ve, uh, you’ve mentioned briefly into the show notes. Um, I will talk about a couple. Um, first of all, teleprompter, uh, it took years. [00:53:55] Brett: So many teleprompter apps have come out that are not worth jack. [00:54:00] Um, like it’s not hard to make text move slowly on a screen, but to actually add features that someone needing a teleprompter would want, apparently took some time. But, uh, an app called Teleprompter very on the nose, uh, solve that. And like they have iOS and MAC apps, and you can sync your scripts over iCloud. [00:54:25] Brett: You can control your teleprompter with your watch. You can mirror it so you can use your iPhone, uh, with a teleprompter lens on your camera. Uh, so you can see your, your teleprompter right as you look into the lens. And it, it, it does all the little things that you would want to do. It makes editing scripts super easy on Mac or iOS, and you can get it for Black Friday, and they’re only sending the coupons out to people who subscribe to their [00:55:00] newsletter. [00:55:00] Brett: So the show notes will have a link to the subscription, uh, form for the Black Friday deals. So you would have to go, but for Black Friday, you can get a year of teleprompter premium for 4 99, which is, I think it’s normally 15 to $20. [00:55:20] Christina: think so, cuz I pay for it and it is hands down, like you, I’ve searched for so many apps. I’ve used it every single week for like four years. It is the, it is the best. It is the absolute best. [00:55:35] Brett: Anytime I’m doing video, anytime I’m doing screencast or, or talking head stuff, it is, it’s just, it’s top notch. Um, I think that’s my, that’s my catchphrase Top notch. It’s top notch. Um, the other one I wanna mention for Black Friday is Silver three. I had waited to upgrade because Silver three is not cheap. [00:55:59] Brett: Um, [00:56:00] and, and I was doing fine with Silver two, but what it is, it’s a text based calculator where you can write out your, what you need to solve and it can do currency translation and uh, and. Long formulas basically, and you can reference whatever the total was from the line you wrote out before it, you can reference it again and then continue it in the next line. [00:56:27] Brett: And it’s basically a text file with a calculator built in. And for the way my brain works, like I’m not great at math. Uh, so when I wanna solve a problem, uh, especially something with floating point calculations in an application, uh, silver is how I think through these, uh, these equations and version three is half off right now through, uh, through Unclutter app. [00:56:57] Brett: Uh, unclutter has, they make a, [00:57:00] they make a Mac app, but really, I think they make most of their money on these bundles. They do. Uh, but Silver five is usually $35. And right now you can get it for 1750 or. You can buy this entire bundle from On Clutter with uh, rapid Weaver Task Paper Time Mader Acorn, uh, PDF squeezer, Pathfinder Tech Sniper, which is cool, but is about to be Sherlock iStat menus. [00:57:29] Brett: Pado, which is a competitor to Curio, which we’ve talked about. Uh, and Downy four, which is like the best, uh, graphic interface to like YouTube dl. Um, you can get all of that for 75% off. You can get the whole bundle for $84. Um, but you can also pick and choose and you can just get Silver three, which is what I’m gonna put in the show notes, uh, for 1750 [00:57:59] Jeff: Where does [00:58:00] Sherlock come from? [00:58:01] Christina: The app, Sherlock Watson. So Apple’s app, Apple’s, uh, was it Apple’s? Sherlock That Sherlocked Watson, or was it Watson? That Sherlock. [00:58:11] Brett: That’s a good question. I’ve, I’ve [00:58:13] Jeff: That was like their search. Their search bit. [00:58:16] Brett: Yeah. [00:58:17] Jeff: Got it. Got it. Okay. Thanks [00:58:22] Brett: Um, [00:58:23] Jeff: I think we did a great job. [00:58:24] Brett: I think we did, and I think, I think we hit an hour and in, if you made it this far in the episode, that means you sat through 15 minutes of Ticketmaster talk at the top of the hour and, and Nice job. No, congrats. Christina. , like you really, you, you had a lot to say and I appreciate it. I don’t mean to sound, um, grumpy. [00:58:51] Brett: Is that, do I seem grumpy? [00:58:52] Jeff: ass situation. [00:58:54] Brett: It is, it is and it deserves, it deserves some talking about. So thank you for that. [00:59:00] And uh, and thank you guys for, uh, for making some time on. Both of you are traveling this week and I appreciate you showing up. [00:59:09] Jeff: My pleasure. [00:59:10] Christina: We gotta do it. Oh, and uh, Sherlock, Sherlock Watson. So that’s, [00:59:15] Brett: yeah. [00:59:16] Christina: Just for, for [00:59:17] Jeff: episode. Episode title, Sherlock Sherlocked Watson. All right, y’all. [00:59:21] Brett: Luck Watson. [00:59:22] Jeff: Y’all get some sleep [00:59:24] Brett: Get some sleep. [00:59:25] Christina: Get some sleep. [00:59:30] [01:00:00] [01:00:10]

Come along on a journey from Pooh’s Corner to Brett’s rock collection as we spin the feelings wheel and fire up the random word generator. Also: nvUltra update! Sponsor Meet Mindbloom. When it comes to mental health, sometimes you need something more to achieve a real and lasting breakthrough. Maybe it’s time to check out a guided ketamine therapy program — Mindbloom can help. After only 2 sessions, 87% of Mindbloom clients reported improvements in depression, and 85% reported improvements in anxiety. Right now, Mindbloom is offering Overtired listeners $100 off your first six-session program when you sign up at mindbloom.com/overtired and use promo code overtired at checkout. Grab your exclusive NordVPN deal by going to nordvpn.com/overtired to get a huge discount off your NordVPN Plan AND 4 months for free! It’s completely risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee! Our podcast swap today is with the “Better Call Daddy” show. Host Reena Friedman Watts interviews guests like Jerry Springer, Judge Alex, Nanny Yvonne, and Johnny Spoiler. Each episode, Reena interviews the guest, with her father, Wayne Friedman, weighing in at the interview’s conclusion. Tune in at bettercalldaddy.com. Show Links Feelings Wheel Library of Congress Control Number nvUltra Recreating Sci Fi Terminals with VHS Affinity Photo 2 GitHub Codespaces Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Insidious Curly Taxonomies [00:00:00] Intro-Outro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Jeff 1: Hello everybody. Hello. You there in the kitchen and you there in your car? [00:00:09] Brett 1: You there in the bushes? [00:00:11] Jeff 1: the rain dripping on your windshield in the bushes. Ugh. Is that like a USB speaker situation? One of those little ones. I am Jeff Severance Gunzel, one of three hosts of the Overtired podcast. Although only two hosts are here for the first few minutes. [00:00:30] One of them is Brett Terpstra [00:00:33] Brett 1: Hello, Jeff? [00:00:34] Jeff 1: and Christina’s, uh, Taylor Swift. She’s getting [00:00:37] Brett 1: Let, let me read you, uh, Christina’s last message in our, in our group chat says, start without me. I’ve gotta get tickets for my mom. [00:00:48] Jeff 1: Hmm. Been there. I’ve never been there. [00:00:52] Brett 1: I’ve never been there. [00:00:53] Jeff 1: That’s not true. I bought my mom and I tickets for a Parliament Funkadelic show in Chicago about five or 10 years ago. My first, my first concert was my mom and her boyfriend took me to the Met Center here in Minnesota, in Bloomington, and, uh, where the Mall of America now stands. [00:01:14] And we went and saw, uh, the, the Parliament. And I was like five years old. [00:01:18] Brett 1: You got the pee funk? [00:01:20] Jeff 1: I got no memories, but the band lives in me. [00:01:24] Brett 1: wait. You were young enough that you have no memories, but you bought the tickets. [00:01:27] Jeff 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Come on now. Focus. I bought the tickets. I bought the, [00:01:33] Brett 1: right away. [00:01:35] Jeff 1: I bought the tickets for five to 10 years ago when we saw Parliament Funkadelic, [00:01:39] Brett 1: Oh, [00:01:40] Jeff 1: honor of, and as a thank you for taking me in [00:01:43] Brett 1: Oh my God. Yeah. I’m super scattered today. Like you started talking and I just immediately, just immediately left the room. I’m sorry. It’s not personal. It’s not at all [00:01:54] Jeff 1: familiar with this response. One time I was, I was upset that my partner had forgotten something that I had told her. And, and I said, I, I mean, it was important. I told, you know, I told you. And, and, and she goes, but you say so much And I was like, oh man. Touche. You won that round. [00:02:18] Brett 1: right before this episode, I had a therapy appointment and it struck me that my therapist remembers stuff we’ve talked about. Like I don’t, I don’t remember te telling my therapist all kinds of things and he is like, well, a couple weeks ago you mentioned this person and, and your relationship and this regard. [00:02:38] And I was like, really? We talked about that? Holy shit. Um, But I also appreciate about my therapist that I can change the topic whenever I get bored and he’ll just track with me. He’s like, okay, we’re talking about this now. Which is like having a conversation with an ADHD person who’s perfectly willing to jump when you jump. [00:02:59] Jeff 1: Well, it’s also like, it’s like I, I would imagine if you’re a therapist and your client is sort of suddenly bouncing out of a topic that, that’s data [00:03:11] Brett 1: yeah. Yeah, for sure. Scratching the notepad. [00:03:16] Jeff 1: I see. [00:03:18] Brett 1: Cannot maintain a train of thought. [00:03:20] Jeff 1: I had a therapist for about five years and um, who was absolutely incredible at, at holding my story and was able to call back to conversations four years, three years previous in really meaningful, very timely ways. And all she had were handwritten notes and I just thought that was so, I mean, it felt so good and in fact it made it, she retired, which is why I stopped seeing her as the therapist, but like, It was sad to leave just for that reason. [00:03:56] Selfishly, you know, because it felt like, oh, you , you know so much, you know, maybe more than any other person on earth about me, [00:04:07] Brett 1: Yeah, [00:04:10] Jeff 1: just gonna retire. What’s this about? Um, it is a [00:04:13] Brett 1: But I still need to, [00:04:15] Jeff 1: I still need you [00:04:17] Brett 1: yeah. [00:04:18] Jeff 1: So anyhow, that’s Mental Health Corner [00:04:20] Brett 1: Should we do a, should we do a mental health corner, or should we hope that Christina jumps in any second now? [00:04:27] Jeff 1: Yeah. You wanna talk a mental health corner? Should we walk over here to the corner? Come on over [00:04:31] Brett 1: Yeah, come on. [00:04:33] Jeff 1: little stool for you. It’s green. [00:04:35] Brett 1: I went to a preschool called Poo Corner. [00:04:38] Jeff 1: No? [00:04:39] Brett 1: Um, after Winnie the Poo, not, not, you know, [00:04:44] Jeff 1: Oh, not poo poo. Yeah, no, I, I was tracking, but actually it’s really good you clarified. [00:04:48] Brett 1: not Poop Corner, but, uh, yeah. At our graduation there were posters of, uh, Winnie and Piglet, and I definitely grew up with a fascination for Winnie the po. Did you ever see, this is kind of mental health corner because this is the recesses of my brain, but did you ever see the more recent Christopher Robbins movie? [00:05:14] Jeff 1: No, I did not. [00:05:15] Brett 1: There’s this amazing moment where he wakes up in the hundred Acre Wood, uh, Christopher Robbins, who’s played by, what’s his name? I don’t remember. Anyway, he wakes up in the a hundred acre wood Christopher Robbins as an adult, and he says, oh no, it’s tomorrow when he looks at his, his watch and Winnie the booth says, oh, that’s weird. [00:05:35] It’s almost always today. [00:05:38] Jeff 1: Oh [00:05:39] Brett 1: Blew my mind. [00:05:40] Jeff 1: Oh, uh, I love that. Oh, that’s awesome. [00:05:45] Brett 1: I love winning the PO so much. Um, [00:05:48] Jeff 1: lots to love, lots to love. [00:05:51] Brett 1: That’s funny. It’s almost always today, Oh man. So I am, I am not, I’m, I’m not depressed, but I’m depressed. And, and this goes back to my whole thing about how I don’t think I ever find stable. Like I am full of anxiety and self-doubt right now. I’ve been losing sleep over upcoming events that I can’t talk about publicly yet. Um, but like things the, so like there’s something coming up that if it happens, it means a major change in my life and I have to make adaptations. [00:06:37] Before I can make that change. And uh, it’s both sides of that are very stressful to me and I have stress dreams. Even if I try to convince myself like there’s nothing to stress about, uh, it will keep me up all night. And it’s not mania. I wish it was mania, but it’s just insomnia combined with depression and anxiety. [00:07:03] And it’s driving me insane right now. Um, and if this thing doesn’t happen, then I have to cope with the idea that, you know, the things that I don’t like aren’t gonna change, uh, which is a whole level of stress on its own. I wish I could say, I wish I could be more elaborate about what’s happening, cuz I do much better when I can speak in plain terms. [00:07:25] Jeff 1: Let me ask you, I have a question. Have you ever seen the, um, we started with poo and now I’m gonna ask you about the feelings wheel. Have you, have you ever seen that? [00:07:35] Brett 1: No, I don’t [00:07:36] Jeff 1: it’s basically a, it’s a wheel , it’s a circle, right? And there are 1, 2, 3 rings of that circle, okay? In the center are these emotions or feelings, anger, sadness, surprise, joy, love and fear, right? [00:07:51] But what it does in the next layer out, if we take fear, it gives you more words. Scared, terror, insecure, nervous, horror, right? [00:08:01] Brett 1: I have seen something like [00:08:02] Jeff 1: For terror, there’s historic, hysterical and panic for scared. There’s helpless and frightened. For insecure, there’s an adequate and inferior. It’s like, it’s actually an amazing way to find the. [00:08:14] I’m actually looking for, cause you’re just saying, I’m depressed, but I’m not depressed, I’m [00:08:18] Brett 1: yeah. No, I could use this. [00:08:20] Jeff 1: what would happen if you looked at that because it does actually give you a language. And I will tell you that having known about this for a long time, my, my partner’s a therapist and just like left it out one day, I don’t think intentionally for me, [00:08:33] And I remember just feeling like, wow, there is so much language to help me describe or even, or even discover how I feel right now, right when I get locked in the same few words. [00:08:47] Brett 1: Okay. So I found it. I found it on the internet. And, let’s see. Scared where? Let’s see. Energetic, playful, creative. Sad. Mad. Oh, scared. Okay. So scared. I’m feeling insecure. Foolish. Foolish. Am I feeling foolish? No. [00:09:10] Jeff 1: Right? It might have a different one. [00:09:12] Brett 1: It, it goes scared, insecure, and then insecure. Just goes straight to foolish. There’s no like mul. [00:09:18] Jeff 1: interesting. I think there must be many different versions of the feeling wheel, cuz for me, insecure goes to inadequate and inferior and I’m not, I just grabbed one off the internet too, I [00:09:27] Brett 1: Inadequate. Inadequate. Makes more sense to me. [00:09:30] Jeff 1: Mm. [00:09:30] Brett 1: Oh my God. Yeah. Like every one of these feelings will, is different. Yes. But I, I, I found the one that, that has inferior and, and inadequate, and I am feeling inadequate. Uh, like I can’t, I feel like I can’t, I can’t keep doing what I’m doing because I’m not adequate and I’m worried that I can’t do what I wanna do because I’m not adequate. [00:09:56] Yeah. I’m feeling inadequate. That’s why, that’s my mental health check-in. I’m feeling inadequate [00:10:01] Jeff 1: Yeah. [00:10:02] Brett 1: even though I’ve been told I’m perfectly adequate both by my therapist and by my girlfriend, and by the people in my life. Um, it’s hard to convince myself. [00:10:16] Jeff 1: or is it yourself, your whole self that you have to convince? Or is there just like a part of yourself that’s going inadequate? Inadequate motherfucker? [00:10:23] Brett 1: a part of myself. Like there’s a part of me that’s really proud of what I’ve done and what I am. Uh, but there’s, there’s a small nagging, but very loud part of me that is convinced that I will, am not, and never will be adequate. Um, I, I’ve resurfaced the di inspirations. I don’t know if you remember my series, [00:10:46] Jeff 1: Oh, yes, yes. [00:10:48] Brett 1: uh, of, of inspirational quotes turned upside down and, uh, one of them is, it’s, it’s true because it’s loud. [00:10:57] Shout your ever critical inner voice. Um, and it’s not imposter syndrome if it’s true [00:11:08] Jeff 1: Yeah. [00:11:09] Brett 1: Um, so [00:11:10] Jeff 1: Put that motherfucker back in the box. [00:11:12] Brett 1: Yeah, but I’ve been, I’ve been recycling them. I’m starting to put them out again. But I, uh, I have some ideas for new ones. Uh, I feel like I, the intention is to ruin people’s positive outlooks because I find them annoying. But the fact is the audience that they have is people who commiserate with the, the sentiment. [00:11:35] Jeff 1: You don’t wanna be the one ruining people’s positive [00:11:37] Brett 1: No, probably not. [00:11:39] Jeff 1: but, but, but what you’re doing actually, as you just said, is like you’re giving voice to something. I mean, it’s a, those two, you gave us an example are funny because it’s something that we all experience to some degree or another, for sure. [00:11:53] Right? For sure. Um, My, uh, my check in is like, you know how when you get strapped into the like rollercoaster or one of those rides, they put you, they put those bar, they put that bar over you and it kind of locks. It’s a little tight. It is for me. I’m a big guy. Um, and then when the, when the rollercoaster first goes, it just like jars you, right? [00:12:18] Like you, it’s kind of a jolting start, even if it’s just going slow. I feel like I’ve been having that jolt, uh, about 17 times a day. It’s just been a period of one thing after another. Today’s example, uh, flat tire. When I tried to take my kid to school this morning [00:12:40] Brett 1: I hate flat tires. [00:12:41] Jeff 1: and eye doctor appointment, cuz there’s just some kind of, not necessarily scary vision stuff, but just not quite easy to understand vision stuff, right? [00:12:50] These just things keep popping up and, and, uh, oh, here comes Christina. [00:12:56] Brett 1: Yeah. [00:12:57] Christina 1: Yeah, I’m entirely too pissed, I think, to be of any use at this podcast to venture. So, [00:13:02] Jeff 1: You’re not even turning on your video. You’re like, motherfuckers, I am not coming in [00:13:06] Christina 1: um, I don’t know why it is not, oh, it’s not letting me change it. It’s, it’s wanting to use my phone for some reason. I’m incredibly pissed right now. [00:13:13] Jeff 1: It’s okay. I mean, if you need to like just take a fucking run up a wall or something, but you’re also welcome here [00:13:21] Brett 1: Yeah. No. Well, like we, we want you here, but feel free to leave and come back and, and we’ll, we’ll like loop you into this mental health check [00:13:30] Christina 1: Yeah. My mental health is basically, I’ve spent hours of my life trying to get Taylor Swift tickets and can’t, and now all the tickets are gone, so I’m now going to have to pay. God only knows how much for seats to go with my mom in Atlanta. I don’t know how I’m going to get tickets to Seattle. I did get tickets to New York at least, but motherfucker, I swear to God, I am so fucking pissed right now. [00:13:55] Jeff 1: So do you need to, to bail and just keep trying [00:13:58] Christina 1: I’ll check in with you guys later, but this is, this is the Christina angry appearance of Overtired. [00:14:04] Jeff 1: Should we, should we leave this in or edit it out? [00:14:05] Christina 1: it in. I don’t care. [00:14:07] Jeff 1: All right. It’s kind. We’ll leave it [00:14:08] Brett 1: Yeah. And pop, pop back in anytime [00:14:10] Christina 1: pop, I’ll pop back in. Hopefully I’ll be able to be successful at some point. All right. Bye. [00:14:15] Brett 1: All right. [00:14:16] Jeff 1: All right. Good luck, Christina. [00:14:17] Brett 1: All right, so we’re stopping and starting on a rollercoaster. You got some eye stuff going on. [00:14:22] Jeff 1: It’s been a really, uh, hard few weeks because little things have been going wrong constantly, as big things are also going wrong, constantly . So one interesting thing. is there is a nationwide Adderall and thereby vi Vance shortage. [00:14:46] Brett 1: Oh, really? [00:14:48] Jeff 1: I can’t get a prescription from mine. I take a pretty small dose, 20 milligrams, although I was planning to jump up a little bit, but, um, friends of mine who have been able to get it have only been able to get it by calling around to all sorts of different [00:15:06] Brett 1: Oh shit. [00:15:07] Jeff 1: if they have any. [00:15:09] Oftentimes finding luck with mom and pop pharmacies, but I would imagine that that’s a phase that will be over quickly once everyone realizes you just need to call the mom and pop pharmacies. And so for me that hasn’t been such a big deal. In fact, it just so happens I had a friend who had stopped taking it and had a bottle of it and um, and so I [00:15:30] Brett 1: depended on the kindness of strangers before. [00:15:33] Jeff 1: And so I was able to just kind of re-up that way. Um, but just wanna send, uh, send my, uh, my love and care out to anybody out there for whom it’s a real problem that they can’t, um, get ahold of that particular medication. Cause I know for some that, that it’s, they, it’s, it’s, it’s a lifesaver every day. And I also know that it being sort of an amphetamine, like, you know, you could make bad decisions trying to, uh, fill that. [00:16:02] Brett 1: here’s my concern. I have a refill coming up on Thursday. If, uh, if I were to go, you know, three to four days without my vivs, when I started again, three, three plus days when I started again, it is almost guaranteed to throw me into a manic episode. [00:16:23] Jeff 1: Oh. [00:16:23] Brett 1: Like, uh, drug vacations do not work when you have bipolar. [00:16:28] So for me to run out is not just a matter of not being able to focus for a few days. It’s a matter of probably losing a, a week or more. [00:16:38] Jeff 1: I just realized, cuz I’ve, I’ve been, I’ve been noticing the last couple days, I feel pretty well treated for bipolar overall. Um, but I do have periods where I feel like, I’m sure this isn’t how it works, this is how it feels like it’s in there, but it’s not quite getting through. Right. And it pops out in certain ways. [00:17:03] Right. Wow. I just filled that Amazon cart pretty full, you know, like, I’m just gonna go ahead and close that, like, that kind of stuff, you know? And I re I’m, you’re helping me to realize two things. One, That I should be paying close attention to that, given that I did take about a week off cause I ran out and then started at a higher dose. [00:17:24] Brett 1: yep. That’ll [00:17:24] Jeff 1: Um, and also just one more thing for me to worry about with people out there in the world who can’t get it, knowing that that can be, uh, what happens if you, if you have to take a break and come back to it. So that really sucks. [00:17:39] Brett 1: Well, I mean, and it’s not just like, uh, being on stimulants long term fucks with your. Your brain’s ability to produce things like dopamine and serotonin. Um, it alters the way that your brain produces those chemicals. And when you are suddenly without something that your brain has depended on to produce something like dopamine, um, going on and off of it can greatly affect the levels of those chemicals, which, when you have a chemical imbalance like bipolar, uh, can easily lead to swings in one direction or the other. [00:18:17] Jeff 1: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay. Wow. That’s a, that’s a bad situation. That shortage. And I don’t, I don’t have a sense of how quickly it’s supposed to come back. Um, [00:18:29] Brett 1: What’s sad is if you really wanted to, you could probably find cocaine pretty easily, um, which is guaranteed to send you into a manic [00:18:38] Jeff 1: Well, and this is what I meant when I said, you know, it worries me because it is an amphetamine that it might be if somebody has a history or just knows how to get cocaine because they did it right and is feeling a little desperate, maybe that’s, you know, a risk. And so everybody out there, be strong. [00:18:57] Brett 1: Be strong. I know exactly what bar to go to in town to find Coke [00:19:03] Jeff 1: Any bar [00:19:04] Brett 1: Yeah. Yeah. Like I know where I, I know where all the Coke heads in town hang out. I know exactly what bar to go to and, and I won’t. Um, I don’t, I don’t need that. My life is fucked up enough already. [00:19:21] Jeff 1: Yeah. So that’s sort of a mental health check in. Um, otherwise there’s just been a lot of activity in my life that is like, I’ve been noticing partly because of medication, but I think also because I have remembered to remind myself how much I have been through in my life and how many hard things I have passed through and possibly hard things I have passed through. [00:19:47] And I kind of had that talk with myself because there’s so much coming up and I’ve noticed that now when things like the jolt, what would’ve been the jolt? I actually don’t even feel the jolt. I just kind of go, okay, we’re pivoting now. We’ve got a tire to be concerned about, you know? Um, and so , maybe that’s my advice to anybody out there and talking to all you, you’ve already been through so much, you can get through this too. [00:20:11] Uh, is is my advice. Sponsor: MindBloom [00:20:14] Brett 1: Speaking of mental health, I’m gonna take our first sponsor break quote. You just need to take better. Your better care of yourself is not a response to mental health struggles. You know all too well you live with them. Sometimes you need something more to achieve a real and lasting breakthrough. Maybe it’s time you check out a guided ketamine therapy program. [00:20:37] Mind Bloom can help. Mind Bloom is a leader in at home ketamine therapy, offering a combination of science backed medicine with clinician and guide support for people looking to improve their mental health and wellbeing. Mind. Bloom connects patients to licensed psychiatric clinicians to help them achieve better outcomes with lower costs, greater convenience, and an artfully crafted experience. [00:21:02] To begin, take Mind Bloom’s online assessment to determine if Mind Bloom is right for you. If approved, you’ll schedule a video consult with a licensed clinician where you’ll discuss your goals and expectations for mental health treatment. Mind Bloom will send you a kit in the mail complete with Medicine treatment materials, and tips for getting the most out of your experience. [00:21:24] After only two sessions, 87% of mind bloom clients reported improvements in depression and 85% reported improvements and anxiety. It’s time to enter the next chapter in mental health and wellbeing. Let mind bloom guide you right now. Mind Bloom is offering our listeners a hundred dollars off your first six session program when you sign up@mindbloom.com slash Overtired and use promo code Overtired at checkout. [00:21:53] Go to mind bloom.com/ Overtired promo code Overtired for $100 off your first six session program today. That’s mind bloom.com/ Overtired. Promo code Overtired. nvUltra News! [00:22:10] Jeff 1: Brett, [00:22:11] Brett 1: Yes, [00:22:12] Jeff 1: you have an NV Ultra. [00:22:14] Brett 1: I do. [00:22:16] Jeff 1: Is it a big update? A little update? A medium update? [00:22:18] Brett 1: No, it’s more of like a what the fuck’s going on. Update. [00:22:23] Jeff 1: You mean, uh, you’re gonna answer that question, not you’re asking it [00:22:27] Brett 1: Yeah, so, so I had a, I had a meeting with my co-author of Nvi Ultra Fletcher right before this podcast, and we haven’t talked for a couple months and, uh, things have been kind of like, we’ve just been putting out beta updates to keep it from expiring while, while we sort through some shit. Um, Fletcher has a lot going on. [00:22:54] He is essentially the only person who can, uh, solve some of the bugs. Like he, he, he owns the code for a good portion of NBI Ultra, and I am entirely dependent on him to fix certain things. And, uh, we had a meeting today. We, we went through our checklist of what’s stopping us from releasing our 1.0. Uh, figuring out what, what is. [00:23:25] A showstopper, like what has to be done before 1.0 and what we can do after an initial release. And we, we narrowed it down to like three things, uh, two bugs for him to solve. One, one thing for me to look further into. And, uh, and then basically testing for store kit, uh, allowing us to have in-app purchases on the Mac app store. [00:23:54] And, and we’re at 1.0, we can find, I don’t, it’s been years, uh, like this has been in progress for years and, and I was starting to lose hope. Um, it was going the way of, do you remember Bit writer [00:24:08] Jeff 1: Yes. [00:24:09] Brett 1: like I had. I keep hitching my wagon to other people’s stars because I’m not confident enough to put out something that people like. [00:24:19] With an app like Envy, ot, uh, you are going to put your entire knowledge base into that app. And the idea of data loss of something going wrong and you losing your knowledge base is terrifying to me. Oh, like being responsible for other people’s knowledge bases is terrifying, and I’ve never wanted to do that on my own and be solely responsible for someone losing years worth of notes. [00:24:48] Um, Which is why I’ve always leaned towards having any app I work with, work with a folder full of markdown files that basically can’t be corrupted. Like there’s no way to lose a folder full of markdown files short of losing your entire hard drive. Um, which is the way I use Nvl. It’s the way we built NV Ultra. [00:25:10] It’s the way that Bit writer was going to be built. Um, but I’ve still wanted help from people that I trusted more than myself, which is why, uh, Fletcher and I teamed up, or why I teamed up with Fletcher. So we’ve got a great product. Anyone on the beta knows that it’s something that you can use every day. [00:25:31] As a daily driver, I use it every day. [00:25:33] Jeff 1: vouch for that. I use it every day. [00:25:35] Brett 1: I love it. I, I, I don’t know what I would do without it. I would probably switch to obsidian, but obsidian, uh, the, the text editor in obsidian is not ideal for my needs. It’s not compatible with services in pop pop clip extensions. And honestly, I just want Nvi Ultra to reach maturity. [00:25:59] Um, but I [00:26:00] Jeff 1: So do I hear you’re saying you’re very, very close. [00:26:03] Brett 1: I, well, I’ve been saying, I’ve been telling everyone we’re very, very close for like a couple years [00:26:08] Jeff 1: Okay, let’s upgrade to very, very, very close. [00:26:11] Brett 1: Very, very, very close. Uh, like we have narrowed it down to three to do items and the only one that is a real show stopper is getting the purchase mechanism set up. And honestly, if we run into further trouble with that, I’m just going to put the app out on, like Paddle, for example. [00:26:33] Uh, skip the Mac App store and just make it something people can purchase directly. [00:26:38] Jeff 1: was hoping you were gonna say Pirate Bay [00:26:42] Brett 1: I’m sure you’ll be able to find it, uh, if you, if you care to pirate it. There’s really nothing you can’t pirate. [00:26:50] Jeff 1: Brett, that’s exciting. I know, I know from knowing you what a journey this has been and, um, and I can’t imagine, but I do know, um, and, and I love the app and I’m really happy for you that you’re very, very, very close. [00:27:06] Brett 1: very, very, very, [00:27:08] Jeff 1: Each one being one of the three items you have to tick off. each. Very [00:27:13] Brett 1: Yes. So as [00:27:14] Jeff 1: how we’ll do it from now on. [00:27:15] Brett 1: as we check them off, we’ll get less and less very close [00:27:20] Jeff 1: Excellent. That’s fantastic, [00:27:24] Brett 1: Um, so I wrote, I wrote a Nord VPN script. [00:27:29] Jeff 1: Yeah. Cats. [00:27:30] Brett 1: Yeah. Do you? And, and we’ve done it before. You’ve heard it before it, I still find it funny. [00:27:37] Jeff 1: What about a random word generator? [00:27:40] Brett 1: What do you, what do you got for me? [00:27:42] Jeff 1: I don’t know. Uh, we’ll, we’ll, word generator. Great. Wilco song? No, that’s a random name. Generator is the Wilco song. All right, let’s see. Random word generator.com. Way to lock that one down, man. Uh, adjectives all adjectives, And, uh, we want three words. Here we go. Uh, generate concerned, insidious, curly [00:28:20] Brett 1: Okay. [00:28:21] Jeff 1: Uh, go ahead Brett. [00:28:23] Brett 1: I am a huge fan of concerned Insidious Curly television, [00:28:28] Jeff 1: Uh, yeah. [00:28:29] Brett 1: which honestly, you can’t find a lot of in the us. Um, none of them are available in my region, and if they were, I wouldn’t necessarily want anyone to know about this obsession with concerned insidious curly television. [00:28:46] Jeff 1: Yeah. [00:28:46] Brett 1: I’d like to enjoy those sweet conservations and privacy. Sponsor: NordVPN [00:28:52] Brett 1: Well, let me introduce Nord vpn. With Nord vpn, I can switch my virtual location on my device with one click and I can access streaming services from over 60 countries at no extra cost. Preser, presumably one of those 60 countries believes in concerned insidious curly television. [00:29:13] Jeff 1: Well, the acronym, and this is funny, it’s cic, but it’s pronounced sick. [00:29:17] Brett 1: Sick, uh, believes in [00:29:19] Jeff 1: sick television. Yeah, exactly. [00:29:22] Brett 1: Uh, you’ve probably heard that VPNs are great for online protection, but they slow down your internet speed always buffering right before you see some of that insidious curly action. Luckily, Nord VPN is the fastest VPN in the world. I don’t even notice it running, so I can stream and browse online with no buffering or lagging as insidious as it gets. [00:29:45] I can even play Insidious Curly, help me sick. I can even play sick tv. Games with no pause. Furthermore, nor VPN prevents my internet service provider from bandwidth throttling so I have consistently reliable insidious love. It’s the price of a cup of coffee every month and far less than adopting your own Insidious Curly. [00:30:13] Jeff 1: Concerned, insidious curly throttling, buffering, [00:30:19] Brett 1: So it’s a small price to pay for premium cybersecurity and a and access to a vast amount of entertaining content from all over the world. Grab your exclusive Nord VPN deal by going to nor vpn.com/ Overtired to get a huge discount off your Nord VPN Plus. Four months for free. It’s completely risk free with Nords 30 day money back guarantee. [00:30:44] That’s n o.com/ Overtired. Go grab this amazing deal. That’s a huge discount and four months for free. Start surfing securely@norvpn.com slash Overtired [00:30:59] Jeff 1: And if you have any questions for Brett, um, about this particular sub-genre, you can reach him at me at concerned Insidious Curly limo. [00:31:09] Brett 1: limo. You gotta, you gotta grab those limo addresses while you can, that that TLD is gonna go fast. [00:31:16] Jeff 1: Ha. We did all right with that. That was good. [00:31:20] Brett 1: We’ve done worse. [00:31:21] Jeff 1: That was a fun, uh, let’s say it. Sick. Sick. Hmm. [00:31:26] Brett 1: Why is nor the only one we fuck with? I wanna fuck with all of our sponsor reads. Nord VPN has been the most lenient about letting us just do whatever we want to with it, as long as, as long as we get that call to action just right. [00:31:42] Jeff 1: Call to action. Yep. Call [00:31:44] Brett 1: The, uh, the, uh, the CTA [00:31:47] Jeff 1: Mm. [00:31:47] Brett 1: as they say in the biz. [00:31:49] Jeff 1: As they say in the biz. [00:31:51] Brett 1: Do you, uh, do you know of any other podcast that listeners might be interested in? [00:31:55] Jeff 1: Oh yeah. Um, yeah. Daddy. Um, one second. . I gotta get back to our [00:32:03] Brett 1: Okay. I gotta preface, I gotta preface this. Read with, we had to rewrite it because nobody on this podcast was comfortable saying the word daddy as many times as it came up in the, in the copy that they gave us. So Jeff Valiantly rewrote this to say the word daddy less often. Podcast Swap: Better Call Daddy [00:32:25] Jeff 1: Our podcast swap this week is with the Better Called Daddy show host Rena Friedman. Watts. Interviews guests like Jerry Springer, man, that’s a name. Uh, judge Alex, nanny Yvonne and Johnny Spoiler. [00:32:44] Brett 1: No relation. [00:32:46] Jeff 1: each. each episode. Rena interviews the guest with her father Wayne Friedman, weighing in at the interview’s. [00:32:54] You can tune in to Better Call Daddy at. You may have guessed it better. Call daddy.com. Thank you. Better call Daddy. Dammit. I still said daddy a lot [00:33:04] Brett 1: Better call daddy limo. [00:33:08] Jeff 1: that we, I I don’t know. They probably bought that up. You know, you always try to buy a few of the more popular ones. [00:33:13] Brett 1: I feel like that’s a completely different site. [00:33:16] Jeff 1: Um, yeah, Um, sorry, I’m still trying to shake off saying Daddy so much. Um, Brad, I did something kind of fucked. [00:33:27] Brett 1: Okay. Taxonomy Corner! [00:33:28] Jeff 1: it’s been just a wild couple weeks and it’s hard for me to focus. And I needed a project for mornings and for night. Um, and so I decided for one day I was going to, uh, sort all of my books by Library of Congress, catalog number, um, , just to see, uh, if it, um, sort of grouped my books in ways that were interesting to me. [00:33:51] And, um, and so , that takes a lot, takes a lot of work. You gotta, you might think you just have to go inside the book. That’s true. It’s usually there. But for, I would say a third of the books, what it says is that Library of Congress ideas been applied for, and it’s not actually written in there, so you have to go searching for it. [00:34:10] And if you’re me, you wanna find the right edition and all this stuff. And so I wrote it on all my books. I wrote, I wrote the Library of Congress, uh, uh, ID on a post-it note. And um, and I sorted them all that way. Which was awesome because I am at a point where I need to get rid of some books and I’ve already gotten rid of a lot. [00:34:32] But I also am at a point where like I’m kind of just bored with how I organize my books. I just, the ones that you’re not reading, like if you wanna keep ’em, but you’re not reading them, you just, I want, I need to do something. Um, something to keep me from reading them. So [00:34:45] Brett 1: you, you need some reason, you need to justify keeping them around. [00:34:49] Jeff 1: need to Yeah. [00:34:49] Write that too. Um, but it was, I mean, I don’t know if anybody out there with a lot of books thinks this is interesting, but it was actually quite cool to see how it grouped different books. And I was kind of surprised by some things. But I have one little kind of comical tidbit if, I know you expected the comedy was coming soon. [00:35:08] Brett 1: I knew it would be. [00:35:09] Jeff 1: There is a, um, black theologian who was a professor of, uh, my partners at Union Theological Seminary in New York City. It’s a very progressive storied seminary. It was awesome to live there. Rafael Warnock actually overlapped with our time there by a year as a student. Um, and, uh, . Yeah, just getting that news hook in. anyway, there’s this, there’s this guy, James Cone, who, um, is like , a really, really well known and beloved radical black theologian. Um, and in the, I think it was the seventies, wrote a book called Black Liberation Theology. Um, and it was an incredible book, kind of merging black power with some theologies that were emerging in Latin America and just generally coming out with something incredibly crisp and badass and, and just powerful as hell. [00:36:06] Anyway, James Cohen, may he rest in peace. Uh, I was looking at his library of Congress number and the way that the Library of Congress numbers work. Thank you for asking, is you’ll have like, it’ll be like HN 180 3, A 44, you know, and then the year, right? Like, and the letters at the top tell you a subject and a, and a like, you know, whatever the next level of subject. [00:36:29] But the author’s name is represented by, The, the, I can’t believe I’m doing this. The author’s name is represented by the, the first letter of the author’s last name, and then a number. Okay. So I look at James Cohen’s book and I look at his library of Congress number and I look at his author id, which is C 6 6 6. [00:36:51] How awesome is that? [00:36:53] Brett 1: Oh no. For a theologian when I was a kid, um, I’m talking. 5, 6, 7 years old. I, I collected rocks. That was my thing. I was gonna grow up, I was gonna be a geologist, and I collected rocks. And, uh, my parents to encourage my endeavors, would let me hang out with geologists, which four people who believed the earth is 6,000 years old, [00:37:22] Jeff 1: Yeah, [00:37:22] Brett 1: bold, a bold move on their part. [00:37:25] Um, but, uh, [00:37:27] Jeff 1: tell the truth. [00:37:28] Brett 1: right? So, but I had a collection of, I don’t, I don’t know exactly how many, but less than a hundred, less than a hundred specimens. Um, but I had collected, I had collected crystals and, and, and rocks from all over the world. And I decided I was going to create a cataloging system. And like the first two letters were a country of origin. [00:37:54] And then there was like a four digit. Uh, number that represented like region. [00:38:00] Jeff 1: whoa, whoa, whoa. How old were you when you were coming up with your own naming convention? [00:38:04] Brett 1: I’m gonna say six. [00:38:06] Jeff 1: Fuck. Okay, go ahead. [00:38:08] Brett 1: It was the same year, it was the same year I started programming when I was six years old. And I developed this, it was, I think ultimately like an 11 digit serial number for each of these rocks in my collection. And I would carefully on the back of the, of the specimen, like put down like a, a layer of white out in like an oval and then, and then paint in the serial number for the rock. [00:38:33] And then I would have an index card catalog [00:38:37] Jeff 1: Oh [00:38:37] Brett 1: of all of my specimens. So I could look at a rock and I could flip through the catalog and locate all of the information on that particular specimen. And honestly, Like it wasn’t necessary. I could have just put a card with each one in its little display case. [00:38:54] But the idea of developing a system, a catalog system for my collection was so appealing to me. I got, I really got off on like the whole idea of catalog systems, [00:39:08] Jeff 1: Hold on. Hold on listeners, everybody. You too, Danny. Glamour. Pay attention. Let’s all go back in time and give this little boy a big hug. That is amazing. That is amazing. [00:39:24] Brett 1: and then they sent me to a, they sent me to a school for the gifted and talented, and my life really took off from there. [00:39:32] Jeff 1: Did you, um, do you have those anymore? [00:39:35] Brett 1: I have some of the, I have some of the specimens. Yeah. And some of them still have the old catalog numbers on them, but I’ve long since lost track of the cataloging system, so the numbers are gibberish to me now. [00:39:46] Jeff 1: have them in your house? Will you take a picture for the show? Uh, image [00:39:51] Brett 1: I’ll see what I can find. Yeah. [00:39:53] Jeff 1: That is fantastic, man. I love that. I love that so much. And that it coin that it coincided with you starting programming. I mean, my God. So now, like, I remember once having a long conversation with you about tagging, and now I, if we were to do that again, I, I would just couldn’t help but see that little boy in you as you talked about it, not just the like adult computer genius. [00:40:20] Brett 1: Well, and I ran, I ran into the same problems when I started programming, uh, which was like, I had friends, uh, who were taking calculus in third grade. Um, like I went to a school for gifted and talented and I always felt like the imposter there. Um, and these friends would like, I’m working with logo, you remember logo. [00:40:46] Jeff 1: I mean, I know what it is, but I, I didn’t [00:40:48] Brett 1: And I’m drawing like floor plans for a house with, with logo, and they’re creating fractals and they’re teaching me like, well, it’s obviously if you do this in this pattern, it’s gonna create a and it’s blowing my mind at, you know, seven years old. And, uh, like I’ve always suffered from this. Like, I can do this, but I can never do it as well as the people around me. [00:41:14] Um, so that started really young for me. [00:41:17] Jeff 1: Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, I hear you man. [00:41:22] Brett 1: I have a friend who composed, or, or not composed, but played, um, Beethoven on an eight bit sound card. Um, like monophonic, like, so to make it sound like you were playing a chord, you had to sequence. Multiple notes in, in rapid enough succession that it was, that it would audibly sound like a chord. Um, which, which you can find on like old Atari games and everything. [00:41:54] But, [00:41:55] Jeff 1: bring, [00:41:56] Brett 1: but it takes, it takes some genius. And I have a friend who pulled off like an entire symphony on an eight bit sound card. I’ve always been surrounded by people way smarter than me, [00:42:08] Jeff 1: Uh, see, I, you know what though, , and you’re, you’re making me think about myself here because I, I have said exactly that so many times and it’s interesting to me on the other side of that where I kind of wanna be, Are they way smarter than you though? , right? Like really [00:42:24] Brett 1: sincerely, sincerely, I, yes. [00:42:27] Jeff 1: I know. Sometimes it is just the truth. I, I, I definitely get it. I definitely get it. Grapptitude [00:42:34] Jeff 2: Should we do some gratitude? [00:42:37] Brett 2: Yeah, let’s do some gratitude. [00:42:39] Jeff 2: You go first. [00:42:41] Brett 2: Okay. I will start. Um, affinity, you know, like Affinity photo publisher designer, uh, they, they make, uh, all of the amazing, uh, Adobe. Uh, competition, uh, for like Photoshop and Illustrator. Uh, they just came out with version two of all three of their apps, uh, designer and photo and publisher, and they’re, they’re good. [00:43:07] My pick for today is, is Affinity Photo two. Um, there, there are new features in all of them, but Affinity Photo two adds, like they, so the layer palette. It was always workable, but there were always things about it that bugged me in version one. Um, like it was hard to move, uh, child layers around. Uh, you couldn’t tell the difference at a glance between like a, a mask layer and an adjustment layer. [00:43:34] Um, like they fixed all of that completely reworked. The, the layers palette, they added non-destructive raw editing, so you can reprocess a raw photo at any time. Um, like cool stuff like live masks for adjustment layers, uh, and you can apply adjustment layers to like hue and luminosity ranges, which is, there’s some really cool effects there. [00:43:59] Uh, live mesh warp, like they’ve always had me warp, but it’s been a little annoying. [00:44:04] Jeff 2: What is Mesh Warp? [00:44:05] Brett 2: basically imagine you put a grid over a photo and then you drag points in the grid and to warp them and it adjusts the photo smoothly underneath [00:44:16] Jeff 2: Cool. I’ve never done that. [00:44:18] Brett 2: for, great for like aligning, aligning things in a, in a photo that are need more than just a rotation where you actually have to like shift like liquid, liquid warping. [00:44:29] Um, and they added WebP export finally. Uh, but there’s, it’s a ton of new stuff. It’s totally, I think it’s like for a hundred dollars you can upgrade all three applications. Um, and, and so I, I did, I’m exploring them right now. I have only dug into photo cause that’s the one I use the most. Uh, but yeah, it’s, it’s a great [00:44:52] Jeff 2: The, there’s a, there’s a thing about their iPad app and there’s an amazing image of a zebra and they’ve made it look like a large balloon is pulling its stripes off. I was like, that is some, that is some deep thinking, man. [00:45:06] Brett 2: Their, their marketing materials, like the, the stuff they put together using their own apps, it, it sells itself. Like they’re such amazing compositions that Yeah. You’re like, oh, if I could have an app that could make that, I’ll pay [00:45:22] Jeff 2: That’s awesome. [00:45:23] Brett 2: it’s like 60 bucks per app. And compared to what you pay for, like Adobe Creative Suite, uh, they’re, yeah, they’re a steal. [00:45:31] They’re so good. [00:45:32] Jeff 2: so you’re a developer. I’m, I’m wondering what it must be like to put out, uh, version two of all three of your seriously major apps at a time. [00:45:44] Brett 2: Oh [00:45:45] Jeff 2: I don’t remember. I don’t feel like I’ve seen that happen often. [00:45:48] Brett 2: No, probably not. But they also link their apps together, such that, like right now you can drag a publisher file into a photo document and then change the page. Like you could apply like a, so you put a magazine into your photo document, and then you apply a meshwork to like curl a page up. [00:46:10] Then with that live meshwork applied, you can change which page is showing in the, in the, uh, publisher document. Um, so everything like ties together such that they almost have [00:46:22] Jeff 2: Almost have to, yeah. [00:46:23] Brett 2: release it all at once yet, but it’s a huge undertaking. I don’t know how many developers they have on staff, but it’s, it’s gotta be a significant amount. [00:46:33] Jeff 2: That is amazing. That is amazing, man. Can I do a, a quick follow up on a, on a past, uh, gratitude [00:46:41] Brett 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. [00:46:42] Jeff 2: Last night I met, um, somebody had dinner with somebody who writes, um, Marvel Comics. And she, um, also is a ya uh, novelist. And, and I asked her cause I just had a feeling, anybody who’s doing all that kind of stuff, I’m like, you s Scribner, don’t you, [00:47:00] And she’s like, yep, I sure do. And uh, what was fun is something I only know from your previous podcast, uh, Systematic, is that, that is, is or at least was built by a single person in, [00:47:12] Brett 2: Yeah, yeah, [00:47:14] Jeff 2: I [00:47:14] Brett 2: yeah. He has, he has a, he has a developer on staff [00:47:18] Jeff 2: Okay. Okay. [00:47:19] Brett 2: that, but yeah, the original Scribner 1.0 was developed by a single developer, and it is such a complete and, and really complex application that even with two people, it’s still an outstanding piece of [00:47:34] Jeff 2: And what’s so unique about it is like of all the nerd software that you know, might come up from the three of us on gratitude, um, that is the one that man, it’s reach is so far. Like people that don’t otherwise do any kind of Mac nerd stuff or just like nerd software, they are all over Scribner. [00:47:55] Brett 2: Because it’s a pro level app, it’s not, it’s not what you would consider indie software, even though it very much [00:48:01] Jeff 2: Right, right. [00:48:02] Brett 2: but it, but like professional writers rely on Scribner, and it has quite a good reputation in the writing community. [00:48:10] Jeff 2: amazing. So, and I have other stuff like that. Most of my gratitude is just follow. [00:48:15] Jeff 1: One is Christina had talked about vhs, a tool from Charm bracelet, which makes such good stuff like bubble gum, um, which allows you to write terminal gifts as code. Um, and somebody took that and recreated sci-fi terminals from movies we all love, including Matrix, um, including Jurassic Park War games, of course Alien. [00:48:43] And it just is such a cool way to show you what VHS is capable of, but it’s also. Just fun on its own. Um, and so I wanna put that, that was Christina’s pick VHS a couple weeks ago. Um, and then for me, like I, I just wanna like shout out again to Firefox containers, um, starting with their Facebook container, which just like allows you to open Facebook work in Facebook. [00:49:11] I mean, sorry, open Facebook. Look at Facebook without Facebook being able to get its dirty. Little fingers all over everything else you’ve opened. [00:49:20] Brett 1: Filthy pause. [00:49:21] Jeff 1: Filthy paws. Um, and what’s so cool about it is they took, they went from there to letting you create any kind of container. So like I have a container for my banking stuff and I have a container for, um, one G Gmail account, which means I can have another container for another Gmail account. [00:49:38] And so I can have all this stuff open. But the cool thing is you can make it so that whenever you go to that um, URL in the future, it automatically opens in the right container. And that is just like such a beautiful thing. I’m so grateful to them. Cause I’ve been on Facebook more lately than I have in the past, and it’s just so nice to know that I’ve got it in a little maximum security prison. [00:50:00] And I can, if I want Zuckerberg to come out, I can let him out. But, uh, otherwise he stays in. You’re here. [00:50:08] Christina 2: I’m here. Yes. [00:50:10] Brett 1: wanted to throw in that I watched, uh, an entire day and a half of GitHub Universe and it was a delight to see you on screen doing like a real Today show kind of vibe. Between, between all of the talks. It it was it You were very good. I was very impressed. I could not be on as much as you were on for a day and a half. [00:50:35] It was exhausting. Just watching you like that would be so emotionally draining for me. [00:50:42] Christina 2: And, and thank you for saying that. It was, it was really fun. But yeah, no, it was sort of exhausting. And then it was what was great about the event and what I loved about it, but it also just added to the exhaustion, would be I would step off stage and try to kind of, like, I couldn’t, I really couldn’t attend sessions unfortunately, but I’d walk around and interact with people. And I would run into people that I knew who, some of ’em I haven’t seen in years and then, you know, immediately have to get into conversations and stuff. And so it was just like, you’re like literally never able to, like we had a green room and, and we did go in that from time to time, but for the most part, like, yeah, you’re just not ever allowed a time to [00:51:16] Brett 1: it would be fun to do one or the other, to to host or to greet, you know, all your old friends. Uh, but to do both. That’s a, that’s a real playful. [00:51:27] Christina 2: No, it was a lot, but it was really fun. And I’m glad you watched and I, I’m glad. Um, did you, uh, did you like the content? I thought there was some really good sessions and stuff in there. [00:51:35] Brett 1: Yeah, it was excellent. I, I love GitHub. I love everything GitHub’s doing. [00:51:40] Christina 2: Yeah, I, I do too. Uh uh okay. So my pick of the week actually is going to be, and I’m sorry that this is an ad, but it’s not cuz it’s cool GitHub Code Spaces because it’s now free for everybody for 60 hours a month. So code Spaces is actually incredibly cool. So the idea is basically it’s more than just vs. [00:51:58] In your browser, because there are some other things that can kind of do that, but it’s basically like a whole dev environment in your browser or in your local dev editor or on your iPad or whatever the case may be. So the idea is basically using the remote, um, uh, development extension, which is what this is based on, which is been probably the single biggest like, game changing developer thing in my life, basically, I have to say. [00:52:24] Like, so you remember, well, obviously you remember you would, but, but, uh, listeners might remember, uh, you know, text mate had like the, the remote text mate extension that was in Ruby where you could. Basically be in a terminal and then you could just type in, you know, mate, whatever. And then you could open your files and your terminal and whatnot in Text Main. [00:52:42] That was great. Okay, so what if you could do that, but in addition, you could also have access to all the files in a project. You could have all like the build environment variables. You could run something, you could test it, and it didn’t have to locally be on your machine. You didn’t have to have the dependencies installed on your machine. [00:53:00] You didn’t have to have Docker [00:53:02] Brett 1: have to run a container. Yeah, [00:53:03] Christina 2: have, yeah, you didn’t have to have Docker set up, you didn’t have to deal with Kubernetes. You didn’t even necessarily have to be on like the same platform of what you were building on. Um, but you could still do it from like either your local vs code instance or if you wanted to, you could do it from a web browser. [00:53:20] Well, that is, um, a GitHub code spaces. And so the idea is you can create a dev container JSON file, and that’s an open standard. A lot of people are using like jet brains, that’s using it. A lot of people are using it to basically in your repository, set up all your project files and basically be like, this is the, um, the, the, the container essentially, or the VM that I would want this project to run in and how I would wanna access it. [00:53:46] Um, but you can also do really cool things. Like you can say, these are the extensions that I wanna have automatically installed, and these are like the settings that I wanna have automatically imported. These are the dot files that I wanna have automatically using. And they can be done like on a per repository basis. [00:54:03] And then you spin it up, you use it. It is, it is happening on the cloud, but the way that it happens is actually remarkably fast. So like what’s happening locally on. Feels native. And then any of, like, if you’re, you know, running tests or, or builds or whatever, that’s what’s happening on the cloud, meaning that you can, like, we use this at GitHub and the GitHub, GitHub repository is like, we use like 64 cores for it because it’s a massive monorepo. [00:54:30] And you know, this would be the sort of thing that if you were trying to do a build on your own machine, even on an M one, it could be a really long process. Um, and, and also would be something that you wouldn’t necessarily wanna have to like, dedicate all the resources on your machine to, right. Like, okay, I’m just trying to do a build. [00:54:49] I have other shit I need to do. [00:54:51] Brett 1: yeah. Cuz you’re only work working with a fraction of it. [00:54:53] Christina 2: Exactly. Exactly. And, and this is where code spaces I think is really great for a lot of scenarios. A, for really big things where you might need more, more power. But b I think like one of the ways that we’ve seen a lot of people use this, and this is why I’m really excited. [00:55:06] We now have kind of a free plan available for everyone, which we’ve worked really hard, um, to, to get and, and that we, we hope will be competitive and that people will like, um, is that like, if you’re a, in the classroom, I think it’s really beneficial, but whether you’re like, you know, high school or college students or if you’re doing, you know, like, like upskilling or people who are learning to code, like, it’s a lot easier to give people kind of like a preset environment to play with [00:55:32] Brett 1: Yeah, for sure. [00:55:33] Christina 2: Hey, for this workshop, like this is actually a great example. [00:55:36] Like, even if you’re a well, like adept developer, if you’re taking a workshop and the first half of it, like oftentimes they’ll give you pre-homework where they’re like, Hey, you’re gonna need to, yeah, you’re gonna need to set up this environment and you’re going to need to have all this stuff done before we even get started. [00:55:52] If instead you. You know, go to a repo and click an open Code spaces button. That changes so many things. Um, but it also, I think, like, will make it easier, like if you wanna commit something to a code base, right? Like if you are wanting to contribute something to someone’s open source project. But again, I don’t necessarily wanna have to install all the dependencies and containerize everything that’s going on just so I can make a commit. [00:56:20] Like, I might actually want to make some changes, but I don’t wanna have to necessarily set all that stuff up, right? Like I, I think that, um, it’s, uh, there are a lot of ways where both, like for people of developers of all backgrounds can really take advantage of it. I’ve been using this since, um, it was called Visual Studio Code Spaces. [00:56:40] And, um, before that, a lot of us at Microsoft were using the remote code extension, which is what all of this is kind of based off of to run things like. In VMs or in our closets or whatnot, like on like raspberry pies or on servers or other things to basically be like, we were like trying to figure out, hey, how can we get co um, code, uh, visual Studio code running on, uh, a web browser? [00:57:03] So I’ve been using a variation of this for a number of years now. I love it. And then the, the thing that we announced at, uh, GitHub Universe is that Code Spaces is now free for all. Um, it’s used to only be available to, uh, teams and like enterprises, and now it’s available to everybody for 60 hours a month. [00:57:21] And so, um, if you wanna have a more powerful vm, if you wanna use it for more time, then you pay. But, uh, it’s free for everybody for 60 hours a month. And, uh, uh, that was a really, really long, uh, kind of ad, but, but, but I also, I think it’s really cool [00:57:37] Brett 1: For those, for those who missed GitHub Universe, that was your taste of, of the, of the brilliance that came out of GitHub Universe this year. Yeah, that was, that was an exciting announcement. Yeah. I actually haven’t played with code spaces. [00:57:52] Christina 2: think you would love it. I think you would love [00:57:54] Brett 1: even like Oracle doesn’t even have an enterprise account. [00:57:57] Uh, we, we have whatever we, we pay per seat for [00:58:04] Christina 2: Pro for teams, [00:58:05] Brett 1: Yeah. But, but we don’t have, uh, we don’t have enterprise. So I haven’t played with this yet. Uh, definitely gonna explore it now though. [00:58:13] Christina 2: Yeah. No, I think you should, I think you’ll like it a lot. Um, like I said, like it just, it makes, just doing it with small things a lot easier. Um, what I love about it is I switch between computers a lot and I don’t always know what I have locally set up. And, um, like I, I did some demos of code spaces when I was in Tel Aviv, and I, I hadn’t been at GitHub very long when I did that and I like showed off, I was like, Hey, this is a.net project. [00:58:41] I don’t have.net installed. I like opened up my terminal, showed them it is not installed. Then using BS code, like I didn’t even use the web browser. Like I opened a code space instance and uh, then I was like using the terminal in code spaces and I was like, look, here it is. You know, like all this [00:59:01] Brett 1: That’s awesome. [00:59:02] Christina 2: So it’s really cool. Uh, I think you’ll like it a lot. Um, it’s um, it, it, it’s, it’s good stuff. So yeah, code spaces is my pick of the week. [00:59:10] Brett 1: Awesome. All right. Well, you, uh, you showed up for what’s, uh, 20 minutes of the [00:59:17] Christina 2: 10 minutes, 11 minutes. [00:59:19] Brett 1: 10, 11. Jesus. All right, . So you have no idea what else we’ve talked [00:59:25] Christina 2: I have no clue. But I will listen. I will listen. [00:59:29] Brett 1: did you listen to last week’s with, uh, with, with Brian and Quinn? [00:59:33] Christina 2: no I didn’t, but I will go back and [00:59:35] Brett 1: I, I, I recommend checking it out. It was, it’s, it’s two hosts from the Technically Queer Pro podcast. [00:59:42] Uh, you, you’ve met Brian before. Quinn was a delight. Uh, definitely. If anyone missed that last episode, it was, it was just me out of the three cohosts, uh, with, with the technically queer podcast or two of them. Yeah, it, it, it, I think it came out great. I loved it. Um, but thanks for showing up. I’m sorry you didn’t get, uh, all the tickets you were hoping for [01:00:08] Christina 2: Well, I got the ones for New York, which that’s great, but I really wanted to go with my mom and it is now going to cost us significantly more money. [01:00:20] Brett 1: I’m so sorry. [01:00:21] Christina 2: Yeah. So instead [01:00:22] Brett 1: but it’s gonna work out. It’s gonna work out. [01:00:24] Christina 2: it will, it’s just instead of paying $1,500, I might wind up paying like $3,600 and [01:00:32] Brett 1: insane. [01:00:33] Christina 2: it is insane. But, But at least I got floor seats in New York and the, the, the New York show Phoebe Bridges is opening for. [01:00:43] So that’s exciting. Yeah. [01:00:47] Brett 1: I still haven’t checked her out. I still need to, I still need to familiarize myself [01:00:52] Christina 2: thought you had, I thought, I thought, I thought I thought you [01:00:54] Brett 1: No, I told you I would and I never did. [01:00:57] Christina 2: Okay. Cuz like you, she of all of them, like she actually is your shit. Like unabashedly. Like unabashedly, [01:01:05] Brett 1: I will, I will redouble my efforts. Awesome. Well, thanks for showing up for a little bit, Christina. Appreciate it. [01:01:12] Christina 2: you. And, uh, yeah, sorry for just coming in hot. You like literally got me when I was like at my hottest, I was like at my hottest. I was like, motherfucker. [01:01:22] Brett 1: if, if Jeff hasn’t edited that part out at this point, uh, I, I feel like it’s a, it’s a good comedic break from the mental health [01:01:30] Christina 2: Honestly, it kind of is. Honestly, if he, if he doesn’t edit it out, honestly, it should just be like a bonus thing that we put on. I. And Christina appears and brings chaos completely changes the vibe. [01:01:43] Brett 1: chaotic, evil. Um, hey, get some sleep. [01:01:47] Christina 2: him sleep right. [01:01:48] Intro-Outro: system is going down low.

Jeff and Christina are both out this week, so Brett brought on special guests Bryan Guffey and Quinn Pollock from the Technically Queer podcast. A deep dive into mental health and relationships, a bit of pop culture, and some great apps. Sponsor Show Links Bryan Guffey Quinn Pollock Technically Queer Podcast Rust programming language Deno Andor A more civilized age The Bastard Son and The Devil Himself My Hero Academia Assasination Classroom Steven Universe Heartstopper Heartbreak High LaunchBar Raycast Octal for Hacker News GitHub Repo Arc Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript A Special Episode with Bryan and Quinn [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:03] Hey listeners, you are in for a weird episode of Overtired this week. Um, both Christina and Jeff have had to take the week off for differing reasons. Uh, so it’s me, Brett Terpstra, and I am here with two special guests from the technically Queer podcast. We have Brian Guffy and Quinn Pollock. How are you doing? [00:00:29] Bryan: Amazing. Absolutely amazing. [00:00:32] Quinn: Pretty well considering. Brian gave me one minute notice and I’m just vibing. I’m pretty good, pretty [00:00:38] Brett: I’m super psyched that you were available with one minute notice. [00:00:43] Bryan: Quinn’s pretty talented, as you say. Quinn, you have adhd, so you’re always ready to talk. [00:00:47] Quinn: always prepared to talk. The brain is going a thousand miles an hour. What will come out? Mostly something put together, you know, hopefully. [00:00:55] Brett: And Brian, you have ADHD too, right? [00:00:58] Bryan: Oh yeah, [00:01:00] absolutely. Yeah, [00:01:00] Brett: So this is, this is a very adhd. It usually is, but we have, we have replaced our two usual regular ADHD cohost with two new ADHD cohosts, um, [00:01:15] Bryan: and honestly, like what you’re probably getting is double Christina and less Jeff in this when you think about the energy, honestly. Um, Jeff is, Jeff is an orchestrator like nobody else. [00:01:27] Brett: kidding. [00:01:28] Bryan: Uh, he’s amazing. [00:01:30] Quinn: If there’s one thing I’m not, it’s an orchestrator, [00:01:33] Brett: Same. That’s, that’s three non orchestrators trying to put together an episode here. Um, but, uh, but I would love it if you two who know each other way better than I do, if you two kind of want to interview slash introduce each other to the Overtired audience. [00:01:54] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. Um, Quinn. I’ve been on this show before, so I’ll start by interviewing [00:02:00] you. [00:02:00] Quinn: I was gonna recommend that, That was my [00:02:02] Bryan: yeah. Excellent. Okay, Quinn, so can you tell me, uh, a little bit about yourself? Where are you from? What do you do? Um, yeah, and like, what is, and then some, something fun about yourself. We’re doing icebreakers on technically queer. [00:02:16] Oh, no. What’s your, what? What is, what are your mental illnesses? That’s my [00:02:20] Quinn: What are my mental illnesses? Okay. I love that. Um, okay, so my name’s Quinn already been spoken. I’m actually a Canadian. I come from America’s hat, um, AK Canada, ak, um, the Place Without a Roof. Um, I joke there’s a long joke that no one understands about that. [00:02:36] Where America’s on fire, we don’t have a roof. That’s the connection. But yeah, I’m from Canada. I grew up in Ontario, Toronto, the the one city people know, and now I live in beautiful British Columbia, aka Vancouver. That’s the city. Uh, what do I do? I’m a programmer. Um, I program for my job. I work at, uh, yet to be unnamed company. [00:02:57] Uh, it’s one of the ones, it’s very important, if you google [00:03:00] my name, it’s the first thing that shows up. So I pretend like no one will know if I don’t say it, but it’s literally the first thing that will show up if you Google my name. So it’s, it’s not a secret. [00:03:10] Brett: right. [00:03:10] Bryan: it’s Amazon. [00:03:11] Quinn: Yeah, it’s Amazon. It’s Amazon. I work for amazon.com specifically.com. [00:03:15] Um, uh, and yeah, I’m a programmer. Uh, and I also, uh, I guess, you know, I’m a podcaster now. I’ve decided I’m on technically queer. Uh, it’s a podcast. I had a role playing game podcast for a bit. Don’t google it as bad. Um, and uh, yeah, my mental illness is okay, so like, actually officially my only official diagnosed mental illness. [00:03:40] Is autism. Uh, I have, I have a touch of theism, one might say, Uh, but, uh, everyone I know is like, You have adhd. It’s impossible that you don’t. And I’m like, Well, yeah, that checks out. I believe that. Uh, but I’m getting diagnosed. You can’t have a doctor in Canada. Good luck getting diagnosed. So, [00:04:00] uh, I don’t actually officially have it, but you’ll learn by listening that I, in fact, probably I do. [00:04:07] Uh, and you know, I, [00:04:10] Bryan: language? [00:04:11] Quinn: Okay, so that’s an impossible question to answer, um, [00:04:15] Bryan: Your currently favorite. [00:04:17] Quinn: well, okay, so my current favorite in my heart and soul, Is the rust programming language, but it’s actually too complicated to get things that I wanna do done in it. Um, and so, uh, I, as a, I, I’m a web developer. I love making silly, stupid little websites. [00:04:32] Uh, so, you know, I, I work in JavaScript. I work in type script. We’re all too mean to her. Um, and we need to be nicer to JavaScript. She’s a mess, but she’s put, she’s a work workhorse, you know, Rust knows what’s going on, puts it all well together, but, you know, doesn’t actually do. That’s I, Now, now, now Rust does a lot, but JavaScript’s the workhorse. [00:04:55] And, uh, I think we, we need, we need more, more, more respect for JavaScript. [00:04:59] Brett: [00:05:00] Do, do, just do Russ and JavaScript relate to each other in any way. Is there, So I haven’t gotten into Russ yet. It’s. Rust and go are kind of next to my to-do list vying for my attention. Um, I’m mostly interested in learning rust. Uh, I am, I am adept at JavaScript. Will JavaScript help me get into rust? [00:05:21] Quinn: No, [00:05:22] Brett: No. [00:05:23] Quinn: rust is, Rust is complicated, but the compiler helps you out. Um, and rust and JavaScript are related because, uh, everyone’s writing their things in rust to compile JavaScript because it’s slow. So like Next js, which is one of the like big new JavaScript frameworks, the compiler for that is written in Speedy Web compiler, which is written in Rust. [00:05:45] They just rewrote their web pack engine called Turbo Pack, that’s also written in Rust. Rust is being used a lot for like, JavaScript, like low level stuff to make it faster because JavaScript is slow. Like if, if, I don’t know [00:06:00] if you heard about Dino, it’s like that other JavaScript engine. So there’s no Js, No js is what most people used to run JavaScript on the server. [00:06:07] The person that wrote that was like, It’s bad and I don’t like it. And it’s written c plus plus and it makes it things. So wrote a new engine for the server called Dino, which is funny cuz it’s like Node but swapped [00:06:19] Brett: All that. [00:06:21] Quinn: D e n o. [00:06:22] Brett: Okay. [00:06:24] Quinn: Um, and that’s written in rust. Uh, so Rust is being used a lot. The community is really good. [00:06:29] I think that’s one thing that people really like about it, is like, it has really like good community and, um, it’s very safe. It’s fun. Um, I think it lets you do a lot of cool stuff, uh, but it’s definitely angry all the time. Whenever you use it, you’re like, it’s like, don’t, you can’t do that. And you’re like, But I want to. [00:06:46] And it’s like, No, you can’t do that. And you’re like, Why? And it’s like, because I need to be memory safe. [00:06:51] Bryan: what’s the other thing about Russ that really like aligns you with it that people [00:06:56] Quinn: it’s, that’s the, it’s the most transgender programming language [00:07:00] obviously. Um, there’s a lot of like, there’s a lot of like trans people that are like helping move rust forward and like big in the rust community. There’s one like thing that people use to learn rust. It’s called, um, it’s an unofficial guide to rust, learning rust with too many linked lists. [00:07:17] And at one point there’s a funny trans joke, uh, in it because the trans community’s big on Russ. There’s like, my friend once sent me a meme, which was like the before Russ programming language, and it was a little anime boy, and it was after the Russ programming language. And uh, it became, uh, it became like a trans person. [00:07:39] So it’s just very, it’s very trans. It’s very funny. Um, and, uh, I really like it. I like kind of got into it a little bit because of that, but I also think like it’s cool that what it can do at its goals and stuff. But yeah, I feel like that’s, that’s the vibe. [00:07:55] Bryan: Great. Um, wonderful. So how [00:08:00] do you, uh, what do you want to know about me Quinn? [00:08:03] Quinn: What? Oh, Brian, I have important question about you. Yeah. Okay. Important question. So you a where, where, where you’ve been on this before, so maybe you’ve said where in the world you are, but it’s always fun to know that question. Uh, and then, uh, I’m gonna throw it back to you. What mental illnesses do you have and, uh, what mental illnesses do you probably have? [00:08:23] Bryan: Sure. Absolutely. So, uh, my name is Brian Guffy. I am not Carmen San Diego, which means that I have been in Southern California, nor around Los Angeles for the past couple of years. Before that I lived in Ohio. I lived in, I lived in Ohio the most in my life, but I was born in Kansas and I’ve also lived in New York City and the Chicago suburbs. [00:08:46] Um, uh, my mental illness is boy, uh, adhd, diagnosed when I was six years old. So I’ve been on medication since six years old. Um, and then, Also [00:09:00] generalized anxiety disorder, um, uh, illness, anxiety disorder, and, uh, complex ptsd. And then also, I haven’t been diagnosed, but also probably a bit of the, my therapists basically agreed with me that I have autism, but she’s like, I’m not an autism specialist, so I can’t diagnose you with it. [00:09:23] Um, so yeah, I mean, that’s me. I think, uh, I, yeah, that, those are my mental illnesses. And I, this is my like fifth time on, uh, Overtired. And I am definitely tired today. I didn’t get a lot of sleep, um, because my ADHD caused me and my boyfriend to have a little fight yesterday because the hardest thing for an ADHD person, at least my version of ADHD, is when I’m happy to, to say less. [00:09:54] Right, to just be like, Oh, you told me something important about your life or thing that you’re working on. [00:10:00] All I need to say is that’s great. I support you. Not, Oh, did you think about it this way? yeah. [00:10:11] Brett: I, uh, yeah, no, I’m pretty good at, at, uh, when my partner tells me something that is j like she’s in a good mood. Great, great story. Whatever I’m pretty good at, just like, That’s awesome. Um, I support you. Uh, she tends to like, ask questions like perfectly legitimate questions about whatever. I’m excited and, and it will like, it’ll like bring my mood down cuz like, suddenly I’ll have to like face some reality that I hadn’t considered before when my mood was elevated. [00:10:43] Um, it gets, it gets messy, but [00:10:47] Bryan: Yeah. That happens with me and my boyfriend. It is like we’re both navigating this thing where we’re like, can we say something to each other without it causing one of us to be upset and, [00:11:00] and like letting go. Both. Letting go of the, like the worry about that, but then also like, Being aware that that’s probably a place where your partner is. [00:11:09] So to give them the space where you can hold your reaction, you know, and think about it with yourself is just difficult. And we’re both working and tired. Like who? Who invented work? Why? [00:11:24] Brett: this’ll lead into our mental health corner. But Quinn, do you see a therapist for your autism? [00:11:30] Quinn: Okay, so for my autism, no. Do I see a therapist? Yes. Do I talk about autism all the time? Is it officially for autism? No, [00:11:41] Brett: But does your, Is your therap, does your therapist understand autism? [00:11:45] Quinn: I would say, yeah, [00:11:47] Brett: Okay. That okay? That’s what I was actually asking. Do you see a therapist that understands autism? [00:11:52] Quinn: I would say, yeah. Um, I think I like my therapist. She’s good and I think she like understands my brain in [00:12:00] a way, which is helpful cuz [00:12:02] Brett: Yeah. [00:12:03] Quinn: brains are silly, you know? [00:12:06] Brett: Yeah. My, my girlfriend with autism has a therapist that she loves and, uh, and she gets advice and, and coping mechanisms and techniques and things from her therapist that I don’t think she could get anywhere else, and that have made her life immeasurably better. And like, that’s Brian, That’s why, like, I would love if you could get an actual diagnosis so that you could put, I mean, you could, you could talk to a therapist about it either way. [00:12:41] Bryan: Yeah, I talked to my therapist about it. I don’t know how much experience she has with autism particularly, and honestly, I’m not sure how much experience she has with adhd particularly. I chose this therapist because I wanted to really work [00:13:00] on, um, like race, like, like some of the, some of the stuff related to like being a black person and a queer person in a, in, in America at the time that I chose her. [00:13:13] But yeah, now there is this other stuff that sort of like lays on top of some of my, my traumas. Like we were. We had, I had a, Nathan and I had a big fight last week, and, but it turned out that like, I thought it was because, oh, I don’t feel like I deserve to be in a relationship, But it turned out she was like, No, I think that what it is is that you are afraid of being abandoned and because of what’s happened to you in the past, and you don’t deal with that like you or, and, or like the grief that, like the relationship that you, you know, there’s always a difference between the relationship you want and the relationship you have, like the ideal relationship and the real one that you have. [00:13:58] And you have [00:14:00] to be able to like, hold space for the idea that my relationship is not everything that I wanted, but it, it is incredibly valuable to me, Especially I’m, I’m Polly. So that’s the other piece of it, right? Is that every relationship, like if I’m not getting something in one relationship, I can get it in another, but. [00:14:20] She pointed out to me, you need to hold space for the fact that like you aren’t getting everything that you thought you would get in your primary relationship. And so you have to be able to talk about that. Otherwise, it’s going to make you feel unsafe or threatened if that those things are given to somebody else. [00:14:44] Um, and then it’s just gonna cause you to be resentful and then act like you don’t deserve to be in the relationship. So there’s like a whole nother level she went under and I was like, Wow, I didn’t expect that. [00:14:55] Quinn: Therapy. It’s good. [00:14:58] Bryan: You know? [00:14:59] Brett: I, [00:15:00] I [00:15:00] Bryan: my mental health is iffy. Brett. It’s iffy right now. [00:15:04] Brett: I chose my therapist first and foremost based on someone who wasn’t faith based. Uh, which in the town where I live, like, uh, I would guess about half of the therapists available here are faith based. And I needed someone who could recognize what kind of trauma, fundamentalist upbringing and flicks on, on, especially young queer people, but just kids in general. [00:15:33] Like you convince a kid if they’re going to hell and like, and if they make the wrong choices, they’ll burn for eternity. You will fuck a kid up. And um, so that was my first and and foremost, uh, consideration. I. Think he, he’s great with bipolar. Like he has, he has impressed the hell out of me with understanding my particular [00:16:00] brand of bipolar, which I have come to realize is psychia. [00:16:04] Um, but, uh, like he’s super well versed in that I do not, when I, when I talk to him about finding like, coping strategies for adhd, he doesn’t seem to have, um, any insightful answers beyond what, you know, I get from YouTube anyway. Um, but, but he’s been great for bipolar, he’s been great for working through some religious trauma and, uh, figuring out how to talk to my parents without freaking out. [00:16:36] Um, so any, I have an appointment with him. I canceled an appointment with him today because I had to pick my dad up from surgery. Uh, Um, but he was able to reschedule with me at like 4:30 PM my time, which is way later than I would usually wanna do anything that required emotional, uh, [00:17:00] resilience at all. [00:17:01] Um, so we’ll see how that goes. But my, my quick check in is I am, um, um, I’m depressed. Uh, I’m, I’m functioning fine. I’m getting my work done. I’m able to show up for everything, but I’m definitely having, uh, thoughts like the, one of the signs when I get depressed is I start analyzing my relationship and seeing problems where there aren’t problems and, and, uh, and I have to be very careful not to freak out on my girlfriend. [00:17:39] Uh, because I see some failing in our relationship or in her or in myself, that if I step back and look at like long term patterns is not a real thing, uh, but in the moment it seems very real and I can blow shit up. Uh, because this right now seems like a real [00:18:00] problem. And, and, and it always has been in my mind. [00:18:03] Um, and she is very adept at talking me down and pointing out, Well, you seem a little depressed right now. Could that, could that have any effect on what you’re feeling about this? And she’s, she’s a fucking pro at dealing with my, my moods. I greatly appreciate her. Um, but that’s, that’s my check in. I’ll turn it over to, uh, to Brian for a quick check in. [00:18:31] Bryan: Yeah, my quick check in. Is again, like I’m a little, anxious about the like, recurrent arguments that my boyfriend and I have been having and, and trying to figure out how to, like I’m in this space right now where I’m not sure where, when like things are, um, an overreaction versus like [00:19:00] an honest thing that I should communicate, you know, because, uh, the dynamic is that. He’s, it’s just that I take up so much space in a room and he naturally is an, is an accommodator so if I’m not, if I’m not careful, I will take up all of the space and he will be like, I don’t feel like I have any space to be me. And everything becomes about you. And yeah. And I think I realize, I think to some degree like that’s an defense mechanism for me where I just am so used to other people not thinking about me, that it’s kind of hard to believe that here’s this person who, like, before they bring something up to me, they’ve already thought about how it might impact me. [00:19:49] Brett: Yeah. [00:19:50] Bryan: so I don’t have to do that work and like effectively take the focus away from them. I can just let them have their focus and like, [00:20:00] They suggested like asking questions instead of making statements, and I think that’s a thing I wanna learn about doing more, which is like, I’m interested in what you said. [00:20:08] Can you tell me more? Instead of, So you, so what you’re really saying is this the difference between [00:20:14] Brett: Oh [00:20:14] Quinn: Yeah, that’s [00:20:15] Brett: need to learn that I, I speak in hypotheticals. Um, I will, I will state my hypothesis with the intention that whoever hears it will say, Well, actually no, or Here’s what’s wrong with that. But I state it as, as a statement. And for people like, especially my girlfriend, like she will initially take that as I’ve made up my mind, here’s how it is. [00:20:42] And, and not as me proposing a hypothesis, but as me like saying, this is my mind and it can’t be changed. And I have worked hard to begin. And sometimes I will say the hypothesis, but then I will immediately follow it with a question like, So what do you think about that? And like, [00:21:00] make it open for discussion. [00:21:02] But that’s definitely, that’s a failing that I have long. [00:21:07] Quinn: Yeah, I think that’s, I’m like a notorious poke hole. In thing. Like I see things and I like find like little holes and I’m like, poke, poke, poke. And I’m like, One, I think this is, this is definitely a bit of autism. Like one, it’s okay if someone’s a little bit wrong. Let’s let people have fun. And two, not everything needs to be a problem. [00:21:27] And just like, I think there’s like also, I saw that one thing with the like adhd, you like communicate to people by telling stories about yourself and you’re like, I feel you. Cuz one time this thing happened to me and they’re like, Can’t we just talk about me? And I’m like, Oh, I am trying to talk about you. [00:21:42] I’m just telling you that I get it from a me story. And they’re like, No, then you’re talking about yourself. And I’m like, Okay. And yeah, like just [00:21:51] Brett: our way of connecting. That’s our way of saying that. I, I understand what you’re saying. Here’s something similar that’s happened to me. We don’t need to talk [00:22:00] about it. I’m just letting you know, like there’s this, I, I feel a connection. This is how I’m relating to what you’re saying. And that is for that, that often comes across as, Oh yeah, let’s make this all about. [00:22:13] Bryan: Well, and I think the thing I would say, and then I’ll pass it to you, Quinn, for a good check in, is that what happens is they are so used to, many people are used to, um, they’re not used to the focus changing. Like they’re not used to somebody bringing that up in that way. But number two, what they’ve been taught to do is when somebody says, Ah, yeah, this thing happened to me in this similar way, is that they’ve been taught to say, Oh, tell me more about that. [00:22:40] Right? So they feel the pressure internally to do the socially appropriate thing in that situation, which is then make it about us. And so there is this thing where it’s. We’re all just sort of operating and trying to like survive in the social like scripts that [00:23:00] we exist in. And so I try to remember that just as much as I’m trying to communicate with them, they’re trying to communicate with me. [00:23:08] And it may be that like, like I need to be like, Oh man, you know, I can imagine that that would be a difficult experience, that those words coming out of my mouth are actually in my head. I went through that once and it was a difficult experience. [00:23:27] Quinn: Yeah. [00:23:28] Brett: Yeah, [00:23:28] Bryan: or say one time this I, I had a similar experience and I just want to share that with you so that you know that I’m empathizing with you. [00:23:40] You know? Now let’s talk about you, you know, and do some of those [00:23:44] Brett: say the, you say the words like you say out loud. What was, Yeah. [00:23:49] Quinn: Yeah. I think like the, like, Yeah. What the talk about you’re, you’re like, Okay, I did the thing I, like, sometimes you’re like, I can’t stop my brain from being like, Here’s this one thing that happened to me related to that thing. Whoa. And then I’m like, [00:24:00] um, then I was like, Then you have to be like, Okay, like let’s move back to you. [00:24:06] Or like, you know, how did that, And you’re like, say the word and stop being like, Bring it all towards yourself. Cuz I feel like it’s super easy to like do that and then Yeah, like back and forth social script and you’re like, Oh whoops. I was speaking to someone that doesn’t do this. Cause it is always really funny when you’re speaking to someone else that is adhd and you back and forth tell stories about yourself. [00:24:28] Brett: yeah, and you can do that for hours. [00:24:30] Quinn: Yeah. Forever. [00:24:31] Brett: just riff off each other for hours. [00:24:33] Quinn: Yeah. [00:24:33] Brett: what sucks is when, when you do it to somebody who. Says, that’s not the exact same thing that I’m talking about. They don’t look at it as like, Okay, so you had a similar experience and, and you reacted in a similar way to me, and that’s how you’re relating to me. [00:24:51] They look at it as like, Yeah, that’s not what happened to me, and you are clearly wrong because it’s not the exact same [00:25:00] situation, and then they’re offended that you tried to relate in that way, and that always gets me into trouble. [00:25:07] Quinn: That is wild. [00:25:09] Bryan: Yeah, I mean that’s what, that’s what happened yesterday is like I said, a thing that offended my boyfriend because I thought I was saying a thing that was being helpful, and that’s the hardest thing to like wrap your feelings around and be like, Wow, I just really messed up there. Like what I thought I was communicating isn’t what you received. [00:25:28] And the only thing that we can do, and this is a hard thing for me, is like all I can do is control my communication. I can’t control the way that they’re going to respond, nor is it helpful for me to tell them to respond differently. [00:25:41] Quinn: Feelings are true even if you’re like, But no, that’s not what I meant. The person still felt that thing and that was still true. You know? [00:25:48] Brett: Are you able to have this conversation though, and explain that the way you, what you meant wasn’t the way it was received and, and to talk it through [00:25:59] Bryan: Yes, [00:26:00] but, and here’s the, but I want to talk it through until he’s not upset anymore. And he has told me very clearly any conversation that goes longer than 10 minutes, he is being accommodating because he is an extreme introvert, [00:26:23] Brett: Yep. [00:26:23] Bryan: And it’s very much like this is the thing that we’re doing. And like yesterday, I literally canceled attending a meeting to keep talking to him because I thought that was the right thing to do. [00:26:36] But also because like the one time he tried to end the conversation, he was still upset and I was like, I can’t have you still upset at me. So I have to keep the conversation going instead of, I’m so bad. I’m so bad at feeling bad, and like being comfortable, feeling bad for a little bit and then letting it. [00:26:55] Brett: Yeah. I have trouble with that too. I learned from my ex-wife that, [00:27:00] um, sometimes. And this is not why she’s my ex-wife, but like sometimes in a, in an argument, uh, space, like some time for the other person to collect their thoughts instead of constant, constantly trying to, uh, speak your mind is not a way to collect your thoughts for introverts. [00:27:23] Like introverts need time alone. To come to their own conclusions before they can effectively communicate them, to try to communicate externally in the moment, leads to literally thinking out loud and some of your thoughts might be wrong, and then you misspeak and then you’re in trouble. So I learned to give her space to think, and in the process realized that’s really good for me too. [00:27:49] Um, and yeah, there are times where I’ll, I’ll go down to my little den, uh, watch a TV show and I’ll be angry about whatever’s happening, but just [00:28:00] kinda put it on pause for a little while. And it’s been a really good coping mechanism because, and I’m the same, like I have a 10 minute limit too. I can only discuss a matter of the heart, something that offended me, something that upset us. [00:28:15] I got about, I got about 10 minutes, and then, and then I need, I need it to either be over resolved or I need a break. I get that. [00:28:25] Quinn: I’m there was a, Life where I thought I was, uh, an introvert, and I’m the least introvert, I think out loud. I think on my feet, I move forward. Um, and just kind of like, yeah, I totally could see how I’m like, Please, people who, like, you’ve talked enough, it’s fine. We, we can move on. And I’m like, No. Like, this is how I think, you know? [00:28:44] Um, and I think, yeah, the like, feeling bad, I’ll, I’ll pull this into my mental health check-in, but like, feeling okay about feeling bad is something that I’ve been really working on. Like, I think, like, I’m like, I feel like one thing that I always wanna do is solve my own brain problems. You’re like, you’re feeling bad and you’re like, [00:29:00] Why do I feel this bad? [00:29:01] Let’s dive deep into the psyche to solve this problem. And the answer is, one, you’re gonna feel worse. Two, you’re not solving this problem right now. It’s not gonna happen. You can’t solve the years of brain problems that you have. It’s. You can just move on. Um, and like it’s okay to feel bad right now. We can figure out that. [00:29:20] And you know, like giving yourself the grace that you like, wanna give others about feeling bad. I feel like something that I’ve been working on and I feel like to mental health checkin, um, I’ve been talking about this with some people. I’ve been having like a bad executive function week. I feel like instead of doing anything, I’ve been staring at walls being like I should start something and then I start nothing and I stare at a wall and then I pick something up and then I just like do something that I shouldn’t be doing for like 40 minutes. [00:29:45] I don’t know. I think the funniest thing, I was like this today I’m gonna make chicken soup and while it’s going I’m gonna clean my apartment cuz it’s sitting in the oven for a while. That’s so much time. But no, there’s no such thing as passive time. I’m thinking about the chicken. A hundred percent of [00:30:00] the time I’m sitting on the couch being like, I could be cleaning, but I must think about the chicken soup being made. [00:30:05] There’s no, there’s no passive cooking time, There’s no doing this other thing. So instead I just sat down and stayed at the oven for like an hour and a half. I’m like, this is what I’m doing right now. I’m watching the oven. Um, [00:30:19] Bryan: can I give you, can I give you a fun tip for that? That has worked for [00:30:22] Quinn: yeah, I love fun tips. [00:30:25] Bryan: Set a timer, even like a five minute timer and say, I know the chicken soup is going to take 90 minutes. I’m going to take five of those minutes with this timer and the, the timer is your motivated factor to do something for just five minutes. [00:30:40] Cuz part of what’s happening is, I think, is that, you know, that you could get time blindness and it could be four hours later. And so you’re worried that you’re going to miss the chicken soup. And so if you say, I’m going to take little chunks of time and give myself a timer in there, then like, it’s not a whole 90 minutes you [00:31:00] have to fill, which you’re like, Oh fuck, I’m gonna miss the soup, [00:31:03] Quinn: That’s, that’s very fair. I feel like, yeah, there’s like a love of like, I’ve been talking about this cuz I think like there’s a lot of people that I feel like have this autism, ADHD combo and I think I haven’t, I have an official autism diagnosis and what that gives me is knowledge, but that’s it. It’s free, you know, you get it and it’s free. [00:31:23] You can’t really do anything about it except get knowledge and work it through. But people with adhd, it’s not free, but you get some sort of like attempted medication, you know? And so like it’s a more important diagnosis to some people cuz there’s a attempt other than just thinking about your brain a lot to do something about it, you know. [00:31:44] Brett: Yeah. [00:31:44] Quinn: I, that’s why like, I don’t know, I was talking to my friend who is like an official ADHD diagnosis, but thinks that like they have autism and they’re like, Oh, but I’m not totally sure. And I’m like, You can just decide you have autism and move with that fact and see what happens. You know, [00:32:00] we can move along with that fact cuz it’s just like a, I like to joke that like, there’s a lot of things in your life. [00:32:05] Autism, I think is one of them, is like, you get to replay the movie of your life, but you know, the, you know, the, you know, the twist ending. You’re like, Oh, this makes so much sense. This is why everything was being weird. Um [00:32:18] Brett: is, this has been a point of contention on this podcast before because Christina is very anti self diagnosis. Um, but I have learned from the autism community that it’s a real, it’s a privilege to be able to get a diagnosis, to have the, uh, funds and resources available to get an official autism diagnosis. [00:32:43] And there is so much information out there that it is possible. To say, Yes, this applies to me. This explains, this is a theory that explains my natural order in such a way that I can confidently [00:33:00] say I am autistic. And then, and then fucking roll with that and, and learn what you need to learn. [00:33:07] Quinn: Like I think the reality is like having an official autism diagnosis versus being like, this is what I think feels like, does, like, you know, having an official autism and gives you a piece of paper that confirms you something, that belief and there’s some value to that, but like there’s no like, and now here’s what we move forward doing. [00:33:26] That, that is like only possible because of the diagnosis. that’s why like, I think like self-diagnosis for some things is like, you know, I understand why people have some like troubles with it or whatever. Um, but I mean, I’m a big self-determination like type of person. I think like it comes like I think a little bit with the I’m trans, I think like comes with the like, you know, trans and like label in a ways, like you’re putting that self-determination to do something and I don’t need like some person to be like, Correct check mark. [00:33:56] You know? Cause like there’s just layers of blockers [00:34:00] that we’ve put on top of that. And there’s a reality of like, I mean with being trans different cuz it’s like, again, like it’s one of those, like once you get official label you can asterisk go search up, uh, informed consent, but. Like once you get an official label, there’s things that you can do to move forward with it that you didn’t get access to before. [00:34:20] But there’s so many things in this world that like if it feels right with you and you can move forward, like you don’t, like getting an official wording doesn’t give you like direct access to something other than like the ability to think about that. And you don’t need some doctor to tell you that in my brain. [00:34:34] You can start to look at your life in that way and then you can just be wrong. It’s fine. Like whatever. [00:34:41] Bryan: Yeah. One of the things that I think, so I, uh, will be the unofficial Christina, uh, whisperer here is that I think Christina is Christina is a, is a person who often sees [00:35:00] the, uh, the consequences of a situation before she sees the opportunities in a situation. [00:35:07] Quinn: A whole poker as one might say, [00:35:09] Bryan: Yeah. And so she, yeah. And so she’s like, Wow. [00:35:12] What happens is these things, like these people, these people do this thing and it causes this effect. And, [00:35:20] Brett: like people who, when everyone’s like, Oh yeah, I’m, I’m a little adhd, or obviously I’m adhd, and, and ADHD is, is more of an area where I do think you need an official diagnosis because that’s how you get treatment. That’s how, that’s how you understand it. Autism is a different beast [00:35:38] Bryan: And, and right. As I’m reading, one of the things that I read recently on a Twitter, and I’ll have to find the treat, but somebody said, Autism is a neurotype not an illness. And the concept here is that neurotypes are simply different. The idea is that, uh, there’s many [00:36:00] different natural forms of very human wiring in the brain. [00:36:03] That’s where neurodiversity comes from. And so a neurotype is like the, like neurotypicals are like the so-called normal neurotype and is, you know, so everybody, everybody has a neurotype. So neurodiversity in this format is like, we’re all neurotypes. We’re all neurodiverse. It’s just which neurotype do we have? [00:36:28] And what level of occurrence is that? So the, the autistic neurotype, the adhd neurotype, right? Like these are just different ways. Our brains are wired and think in the world. And so instead of saying you need an autism diagnosis, recognizing that you have an autistic neurotype means that you can. Think about what that means compared to how other people with a different neurotype operate. [00:36:58] And so you can work to figure out your [00:37:00] communication differences, and I think that’s really interesting. [00:37:03] Quinn: Yeah, like I, I think like I, I understand the like kind of consequence cuz like, I think with the ADHD thing, like, you know, it’s probably pretty dangerous to try to just like self-medicate cuz you’re like, I think I might have ADHD if you actually like don’t, and you’ve read some stuff and like, I think like there’s like a level of like that. [00:37:21] But I think like, [00:37:22] Brett: there’s no way to legally self-medicate for [00:37:24] Quinn: Exactly right. Like there’s no way to legally, you know, other than maybe drinking 30 billion monster energies a day or whatever like that, you know? Um, but I think there’s like a level of just like the way that you can change your modes of thinking, um, and kind of move into that I think is something that I think a lot about the like general autism thing, cuz it’s like a yeah, I was joking. [00:37:46] Like, you know, it’s, it’s your, it’s, you get it for free, you know, if you have it, congratulations, you’re not paying for anything to help you with it. You might pay paying for therapy, but you’re just, it’s just like a think thought process in a way. And like ways of [00:38:00] changing your way of thinking of interacting with things. [00:38:02] So [00:38:03] Brett: Yeah. So we, we, we need to, we need to end the mental health corner at some point, but I feel like Quinn, you haven’t really gotten an opportunity to offer your quick mental health [00:38:15] Quinn: Oh yeah. My, my mental health check-in is just that I’m mostly, actually surprisingly fine. Uh, other than my inability to focus on anything, My brain is deeply broken and staring at walls. But other than that, given the fact that it’s becoming dark at four o’clock, now it’s five o’clock. But, um, I’m doing pretty good because I definitely get to like, you know, it’s dark at four o’clock. [00:38:36] What am I gonna do? I’m stuck in my tiny apartment forever life. But I’ve had like limited, like, external conflicts that are causing bad brain vibes. Um, I’ve just had, I should be doing something, but instead I’m gonna stare at the wall, which is unfortunate. But, you know, we’re working through it. We’re moving through it. [00:38:55] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, I, I know exactly how that goes. Uh, you [00:39:00] combine bipolar depression with adhd and you spend a lot of time staring at walls. It’s very frustrating. Um, okay, so I’m gonna take a quick sponsor break. Uh, if you’ve thought about securing your home with home security, but have been putting it off, you’ll wanna listen up right now. [00:39:18] Overtired listeners can order the number one rated, simply save home security system for 50% off. This is their biggest off, off of the year, and you don’t wanna miss it. Here’s why we. Love it. Simply Safe was named the best home security system of 2022 by US News and World Report. That’s the third year in a row in an emergency 24 7. [00:39:41] Professional monitoring agents use Fast Protect TM technology exclusively from Simply Safe to capture critical evidence and verify the threat is real so you can get Priority Police response. Simply Safe is whole home security with advanced sensors for every room, window and [00:40:00] door, HD security cameras for inside and out and smarter ways to detect motion. [00:40:05] That alert you only wanna threat is real. And even hazard that detect fires, floods, and other threats to your home 24 7. Professional monitoring services cost under a dollar a day. Less than half the price of ADTs traditional, professionally installed system. With the top rated, Simply Safe App, stay in complete control of your system. [00:40:29] Anytime, anywhere, arm or dis arm or disarm, Unlock for a guest, access your cameras or adjust system settings. Don’t miss your chance for a massive savings on our favorite security system. Get 50% off of any new system@simplysafe.com slash Overtired today. This is their biggest discount of the year. [00:40:52] That’s s i m ps a e.com/ Overtired. There’s no [00:41:00] safe, like simply safe. Um, do, do you guys have the Quip document loaded up? [00:41:07] Bryan: Yeah. [00:41:09] Brett: Uh, Brian, I would love it if you would do the promo, the promo swap for twit. [00:41:15] Bryan: Yeah. Can you hear me now? Yeah, you can hear [00:41:18] Brett: Yes, Absolut. [00:41:20] Bryan: do it now? [00:41:21] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Tell us, tell us about, uh, uh, another favorite podcast of ours. [00:41:27] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. Um, it’s time to tell you about one of our favorite podcasts, one of mine. Uh, when we are not talking here about mental health, I gotta tell you, we’re usually talking about tech and when it comes to covering all things tech, Boy do we have a podcast for you. So every week, this week in Tech gives you a no holds bar. [00:41:48] Deep dive into how big tech influences our culture and our lives. Join twit TV’s, Leo Laport. Everybody loves Leo and are ever-changing [00:42:00] panel of journalists and experts every Sunday as they break down and often disagree on the latest in tech. Subscribe to this week in tech, wherever you get your podcasts. [00:42:12] Brett: That was an excellent breed. We should bring you on just to do sponsor reads, [00:42:17] Bryan: bro. Totally. Happy to do so. It’s one of my favorite things actually. [00:42:23] Brett: So, I don’t know, uh, what y’all’s schedule is. Uh, we have about 15 minutes left in our hour. Uh, we could switch straight to gratitude, but honestly, uh, like if you guys have anything, any pop culture shit you wanna get into, I’m here for it. [00:42:42] Quinn: I love and, or that’s really my, my pop culture thing. [00:42:45] Bryan: Yo, I, [00:42:46] Quinn: Yeah. Have you not watched it? [00:42:49] Brett: I have not yet. [00:42:50] Quinn: probably the best Star Wars content made in an extremely long time. Like, [00:42:56] Bryan: I think ever, I think ever. [00:42:58] Quinn: yeah, I think it’s [00:43:00] the thing that I think is so important about it to me that I think is that it’s, it’s ground level. It’s not focused on some person with the last name Skywalker. [00:43:09] Um, it’s sharp, like politically. It’s, it’s politically sharp and like, makes really interesting points and um, I think, I think unlike the Mandalorian and like those other shows, which I like, don’t get me wrong, I think it, I also fairly liked, but this is like recorded not on a weird, unreal engine wall. And so everything feels like they’re like in a place. [00:43:34] I feel like there’s a lot. A lot of like movies that I like to joke back in the day were really good because LY just got a bunch of weird dudes in a small room and then just, they were kind of weird. I think the thing is like, you know, the thing is one of those and predators like a bunch of weird people in a small space and then just like being forced to like on the like onset do things, I think really extends it. [00:43:58] And I feel and or feels like [00:44:00] that to me, unlike a lot of the Mandalorian stuff and a lot of the other star stuff, whereas focused on like this big over narrative and it was a lot of like, I feel like a lot of, Oh, I know that. Ooh. Or like, you know, it really just exists for you to brain teel and or is like pointed and good. [00:44:17] Brett: Here you said it was politically sharp and, and the reason I’ve always preferred Star Trek to Star Wars is because they approach social issues, um, through a lens. They abstract a social issue like involving an alien race or, or, or some kind of sci-fi phenomenon in a way that addresses a social issue that we all face, but in an abstract way that we can all understand differently. [00:44:47] And Star Wars. In general is more about like, uh, cowboy western plot lines and doesn’t really address social issues. So are you saying [00:45:00] that and or steps out of that kind of cowboy, western, um, uh, genre enough to actually address social issues? [00:45:10] Quinn: Yes. I think it’s, I think it’s important. There’s not like this like big overarching Kira’s journey with. Sabers and space Wizards. It’s like about the like, it’s like, it’s about, um, so it’s, it’s based off, um, and or something from Rogue One, which I think was one of the like more like politically a little sharp movies. [00:45:33] And I think like it’s really zooming in on a low level of like, individual citizens and like, it, like doesn’t, isn’t talking about like white boys with space lazos and it’s like talking about like the politics of the world. Um, the NA five episode, which is like this prison episode, I think is like one of the best examples of that. [00:45:56] Like, they like look at what, like prison [00:46:00] and labor and like this empire is kind of talking about and how that, how that is displayed and how like all these, how like Empire interacts with like, you know, labor force [00:46:12] Brett: That’s fascinating. Yeah. I’m gonna get into that. That sounds absolutely worth watching. [00:46:17] Bryan: I have, I’ll give a culture shoutout too. I have, I’ll give two shoutouts. One is a new Netflix show, which is the bastard son and the devil himself. [00:46:31] Brett: Okay. [00:46:32] Bryan: It’s a brand new show. It’s based on a series of books. It is about basically a kid who’s like, there’s these two types of witches and he’s a blood witch. [00:46:47] Blood witches are apparently bad, but like it gets into, uh, a lot of like, politics and like genocide, extermination, those sort of [00:47:00] concepts again, done in that really smart way of abstracting out. And it’s a small story, right? It is a small story about a small set of people and the impact that they have on the world unintentionally, but not even really about that. [00:47:11] It’s just like about this community. And season one was just like a wild, fun, intense ride. It’s like difficult and funny and sharp and I just really loved it. And I hope Netflix doesn’t cancel it after two seasons. Like they canceled everything else. It’s so frustrating. [00:47:32] Quinn: I’m gonna make a quick back to and or plug, if you like, hearing, like watch along podcasts with people that are smart, talking about it. I’ve been listening to this podcast called A More Civilized, More Civilized Age. It’s a podcast. Um, they’re actually going through all the, uh, that, what’s the Star Wars animated, The Star Wars animated TV show. [00:47:51] Clone Wars, but they’re like, And ORs too good. We need to talk about it now. And so every week they’ve gone and like, talked about and or, and like the people on it are just [00:48:00] really smart. Um, and, uh, I think like it’s a really good, like, listen, uh, if you’re like into one of those, like watch along as you watch a thing, hear other people’s thoughts about it. [00:48:12] Check out like even just the, and or episodes of a more civilized age as you watch it, is. [00:48:17] Bryan: Yeah, I just sort of flipped, uh, a thing. The other suggestion that I have, uh, is a, so I was having a conversation with my boyfriend about what type of TV he likes to watch, and we were talking about how he likes to like watch Happy TV because it’s really intentional for him to sort of step away from his emotions. [00:48:33] And he does this, He talks about, It’s great. You, you all will understand this. He like runs it at a background process of something 19 or something. Um, like the, the, the, the lowest priority process that you can run like on a Linux machine. Yeah. Um, he, I mean he’s a by trader, rocket scientist, software developer, cfd, uh, and now works in software development and.[00:49:00] [00:49:00] So he likes happy shows because they don’t remind him of all of the like sadness or frustration that he’s got that he’s putting into boxes and like pulling out slowly to work on in the background like we talked about. So, and now I think I use sad shows to process my trauma, right? Yep. Like watching them helps me move through that cuz I can, cuz I struggle to access it. [00:49:23] He has no problem accessing it. But what he talked about is, um, cause we were talking about like if we watch happy shows together, we get more of that sort of fun romantic, giggly opportunity that you don’t get in hard shows. And so two things, it’s why he loves the anime. And so I’m always a big fan of my hero academia, um, and, um, assassination classroom. [00:49:49] Uh, but then the other thing is Stephen Universe. [00:49:52] Quinn: Universe. Great. [00:49:54] Bryan: Stephen Universe, one of the greatest animated shows ever, I think. [00:49:57] Quinn: Yeah, you, you, you might get some [00:50:00] hate from that. Some people are mad about, about Stephen Universe, but don’t, It’s fine. Don’t worry. [00:50:06] Bryan: Brett, have you ever seen Stephen Universe? [00:50:08] Brett: no. [00:50:10] Bryan: Oh yeah. You would love it. [00:50:13] Brett: So I gotta ask, neither of my usual cohosts have ever seen either of these shows. Have you guys seen Heart Stopper or Heartbreak High? [00:50:23] Quinn: I’ve seen Heart Stopper. I have on my bookshelf up there, the graphic novels. I’ve [00:50:28] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s, [00:50:30] Quinn: Um, I have a bunch of Alice Oman stuff I really like, a lot of, just like her stuff. I think it’s all really good. Um, I’ve watched three episodes of Heartbreak High. I think it’s very interesting. [00:50:40] It’s weird. [00:50:40] Brett: So, like, the beauty, the thing that really hooked me about Heartbreak High is the, uh, relationship between Quinny an autistic girl, and I think Darren, who is a, uh, non-binary like [00:51:00] queer character who just like understands Quinny in a way that. It’s just a very heartwarming relationship. He understands her autism in a way that nobody else does, and the two of them together make a pretty unstoppable pair. [00:51:18] I, I love that show. It was so fun. [00:51:21] Quinn: I’ve heard, Yeah, I heard good things about it, so I started it. But there’s too many TV shows, but I’ll say I love Heart Stopper. One of my favorite things about Heart Stopper is I think like within a lot of queer media, even like technically happy queer media, people can’t just like be gay and not be punished. [00:51:40] Like you expect that someone that there’s a gay kiss and then immediately something bad happens, [00:51:46] Brett: Mm-hmm. [00:51:47] Quinn: this is just, they’re happy, you know, They’re just [00:51:50] Brett: Yeah. That is, It’s such a, like, you’re all, like for me, there was this tension watching it because every time there was progress [00:52:00] in the storyline, I was waiting for that hammer to fall. I was waiting for the repercussion of, of being gay or of finding out your bi like what are the, the consequences? And it never happens. [00:52:12] And it’s just like, it’s, it’s a heartwarming show. It, it’s, it’s super easy. [00:52:17] Bryan: Yeah, I love Heart Stopper. I think the one thing, if you are a queer person who grew up like in the nineties and the eighties, uh, Heart Stopper for me was a wonderful show and it like activated all of my teenage trauma and angst about the life I didn’t get to live. [00:52:39] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, see, I had the, I had the good fortune, like, like I’m pan and like I, I’ve always had attractions to same sex and other, and, uh, because I also had an attraction to women, I never had [00:53:00] to come out in high school. Like there was never any pressure I could satisfy my, my curiosities and everything with perfectly socially acceptable in the nineties, uh, ways of living. [00:53:14] Um, and I never had to deal with, Uh, the, the what most people, what most queer people deal with in, in high school years. Um, I did however, have, like most of my friends were queer in some way, and, and I saw, I saw brutality and like I empathized so deeply with my friends that went through that shit. And it is for me, cathartic to watch something like Heart Stopper where that shit just doesn’t happen where [00:53:47] Quinn: just be [00:53:48] Brett: everyone’s just, Okay. [00:53:49] Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:53] Bryan: Let’s be gay and happy and be fine friends. [00:53:56] Quinn: Call [00:53:56] Brett: a episode title [00:53:57] Quinn: the gay, you know? [00:53:59] Bryan: [00:54:00] absolutely. Yeah. Let’s be gay. [00:54:01] Brett: or Fall back to the Gay [00:54:03] Quinn: No, You know, gay, gay, gay is gay. Gay men happy. At some point it’s a call back. Now you can be gay [00:54:09] Bryan: gay is happy as gay. Yeah. Oh, you could be double [00:54:13] Quinn: double gay. Gay and happy. But yeah, [00:54:16] Bryan: So Brad, So Brad, should we hop into gratitude? [00:54:18] Brett: Yeah, we should. You wanna start Brian? [00:54:22] Bryan: Um, sure. Actually, yeah. That’s awesome. So I know that most people, um, have a love hate relationship with Hacker News because, uh, the people on Hacker News can be very, Yeah, they can be very not nice and, um, But I’m not a developer like day by day, so I don’t, like, I didn’t come into Hacker News until like this year, really. [00:54:51] So I find Hacker News a really interesting site to look at for the links, not the comments, just the links. [00:55:00] And the app that I love for that is called Octa. Octa, O c t A L. Um, I’m gonna try and find out really quickly, um, who the app developer is. Um, but it’s just like a really clean, um, App and I don’t like using, If I can use a, a real app and not a web app, it makes me really happy. [00:55:23] Um, Daniel Woo Octo for Hacker News Made by Daniel Woo. Um, yeah, it’s just really, really great. And even, you know, it’s clean. It lets you search. It’s got deep link support. You can c as your newsfeed. Uh, it’s thinkable. Um, it’s ad free. No ads, no subscriptions, and no tracking. A shout out to our good friend Marco Armand. [00:55:47] Um, who loves that. But yeah, I just really love how Cleveland simple it is. And it lets me, like in the evening before I go to bed, be like, what weird things do people discover on the internet today? And like, [00:56:00] an easier, like, it’s easier than Reddit, which feels so much bigger [00:56:03] Quinn: Reddit’s scary. [00:56:05] Bryan: Yeah. [00:56:06] Brett: Well, and honestly, if we’re talking about comments, red is also scarier in that regard. Um, Hacker News, honestly, like aside from Daring Fireball, uh, if I’ve ever had something blow up on the internet, it’s been because of Hacker News. I have, uh, I have a love for the amount of hack of traffic that Hacker News can send to a project. [00:56:29] Uh, they have a very engaged readership of people that will follow his, but any link. [00:56:37] Bryan: That’s, Yeah. That’s awesome. And also this is like, it’s really cool. It looks like it’s actually an open source client too. Um, because the source code is on GitHub. [00:56:48] Brett: Oh, nice. Can you drop a link to that in the show notes? [00:56:51] Bryan: sure can. And it also looks like I’m gonna, uh, Daniel also works currently at Disney streaming, doing their app, which makes sense [00:57:00] cuz it’s really good actually. [00:57:04] Quinn: That’s fun. [00:57:06] Brett: All right, Quinn, tell us about [00:57:10] Quinn: Okay. My app is called arc. It’s the newest browser on the block from the browser company, which is a bad name. Um, I think they’re specifically actually called the Browser Company of New York, which is even more preposterous, but it’s the best app, best browser I’ve ever used. It does a lot of really interesting things. [00:57:31] Um, you have like profiles, um, you have different. Stages almost in a way where like I have like a fun section and a dev section and you can pin, So first of all, I’m a tab, I smashed the command T button a million times and ARC is like, we know you’re gonna do this. We clear that every, every, every 10 hours you can change it. [00:57:56] But I’m like, it’s like we’ll clear up, but if you want things to never disappear, you [00:58:00] can pin tabs to each space and then if you like, it will like stay that and you can like go back to like the home if you like, stay on the same url. It does like a lot of really interesting things. Um, but one of my favorite things about it is easels. [00:58:13] It’s this like thing that they made kind of where it’s just like you have this like block of area that you can like attach screenshots to draw on. Um, but one really interesting thing is you can have live previews, two like screenshots in a website. So you can like select, you hit the like shift command two button I think it is. [00:58:33] And it brings up like a screenshot selector, but it’s based off like HTML elements and you can select a certain thing, then you can add it to an easel and have it live update and then you can share it with people. And so the one thing that makes me really interested about it is I’ve been really on this, like I want more people to have like little homes on the internet for themself, but I also want you to never have to program because I [00:59:00] don’t think everyone should need to know to program. [00:59:01] And this easel thing’s super interesting in a way cuz you can like have these curated, coll internet collages effectively that can be static. They can have some live content, they can have cute drawings, they can have text, and then you can share it with a link. And then my friend even added it in an eye frame on another. [00:59:22] Of his website because it’s just a link. I don’t know how it does it, it’s magical. You can, if you like lo if you’re hosting something on local host, you can add that to a live thing and that will live update. Even though you wrote, I don’t know how it does it, like it’s truly magical and weird. Um, but it’s just super interesting and I think like it’s bringing a lot more thought into a, the main thing, we use a browser to browse the internet and like it’s putting thought and um, like for example, these, these things called boosts, which are basically just like, [01:00:00] you wanna add some custom css, add a boost to this, write the css. [01:00:02] You wanna add some like really quick JavaScript, Add a boost, write that JavaScript and we’ll add it to the page. [01:00:09] Brett: that’s a big deal. Like, do you remember user scripts and like, uh, what was the, what was the plugin for? [01:00:16] Quinn: I use style [01:00:17] Brett: Firefox and Chrome style box. Yeah, there was one even before that. But like the idea of having the ability to inject custom scripts and custom css, uh, I’ve missed that. Uh, those, those old plugins have gone away. [01:00:32] That’s a big deal. Um, I, [01:00:34] Quinn: so good. [01:00:36] Brett: yeah, I signed up for arc, uh, the second I heard about it, and I just got my beta invite today, downloaded the browser and it gave me a server error when I tried to sign up. So I have not had a chance to play with this yet, but based on what I’ve read, I definitely want to. [01:00:56] Bryan: Yeah, I wasn’t sure either, but I’m also Arc like, here’s [01:01:00] my favorite thing about Arc, just to shout it out, is the fact that when you click on like a new link, it opens in this window called Little Arc, which is like a new window, but it’s like a floating window and then you can change, which works. It has workspaces and profiles and you can link them together and all in the same like browser window and you can just switch between them at the bottom. [01:01:23] And then the other thing that I love is that at the end of each day, it just automatically archives all of your tabs, but you can get back to them if you want to. [01:01:34] Quinn: you, Brian, you can pin tabs if you never want them to go away, If you hit the command [01:01:39] Bryan: Just by dragging it [01:01:40] Quinn: you can also, if you, you know how like everything has a Command K bar nowadays we’ve hit command K, it opens a thing, so [01:01:47] Brett: command shift [01:01:47] Quinn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Arc, if you hit Command T, it opens what they call the action bar, which is a Command K bar in my brain. [01:01:55] Um, and so you can, it’s, you can just like type a link, type a Google, but you can [01:02:00] do a bunch of other things in it as well. Um, and you just kind of like try typing. I actually learned some stuff because when I first signed up a person was like, Hey, do you wanna have a call about how to use this? And I’m like, I do, uh, tell me things. [01:02:11] Cause I had one question and the person’s like, You can just type. Like, I was like, how do I move things between workspaces? And they’re like, type, move to workspace, like the name of it. I’m like, What? You can just hit command T and write move. But um, and it’s also interesting cuz it’s like plugging in with a lot of really cool things. [01:02:29] Like if you use linear, you can like add a new linear like from, for the Command T bar if you use Notion, it like works super well with Notion if you’re part of hashtag Notion Nation or whatever. I don’t use notion that’s scary. But um, it’s like thinking about other cool web apps that people use and making it nicer to use them. [01:02:49] Brett: Nice. All right. I’m sold. I’m, I’m, I’m, I, I’m, I’m waiting just to get [01:02:57] Quinn: Join the Arc Killed. Arc killed people. You know [01:02:59] Brett: to get [01:03:00] in. [01:03:01] Bryan: I’m gonna ping them on. I’m gonna ping them on Twitter and be like, Brett Terpstra [01:03:07] Brett: I will, I will, I will submit my own bug request. Thank you. [01:03:11] Quinn: No, but they are you in their private Twitter, when you sign up, you get access to their private Twitter. You can tweet them at, [01:03:17] Brett: I did not get that. [01:03:18] Quinn: Yeah. Are you not part of the private Twitter? [01:03:21] Brett: apparently [01:03:21] Quinn: Cause there’s the browser company, but then there’s ARC Internet, which is a tweet and they’re like, it’s like a private one. You have to like tell them your thing and they’ll let you follow it. [01:03:30] Brett: All right. I’ll check it out. Um, do you guys use launchers at all? Uh, [01:03:38] Quinn: Raycast. [01:03:38] Brett: Quick, [01:03:39] Bryan: We’re Ray Cat, We’re ra, We’re Ray Cat’s kids. Yeah. [01:03:42] Quinn: I used to use. [01:03:42] Brett: right. So my. My pick for the week is Launch Bar, and that’s because I’m old. Um, I started Launch Bar predates Alfred, uh, everything except for Quicksilver, which is recently made, uh, a resurgence. [01:04:00] Um, but I got into Launch bar after Quicksilver kind of stop development and uh, I just kind of went whole hog on Launch Bar that said, um, Alfred is amazing, recast is outstanding. [01:04:17] Like I, this is not a like, um, a competition. I guess like I, I am, I’m sold on Launch Bar because I have like muscle memory that just, I can do anything I wanna do with a couple keystrokes in Launch Bar, whether I’m launching applications or sending a file to another application, or, or performing internet search or doing a quick calculation like launch bar’s. [01:04:42] Just second nature for me, um, this is true for anyone that uses any launcher. Uh, once you, once you have the muscle memory for something like, uh, Quicksilver or Raycast or Alfred, um, you, I just can’t imagine using my [01:05:00] computer without one of these apps. [01:05:02] Bryan: Yeah, [01:05:02] Quinn: When I switched to Raycast, I used the I, so I can’t spell at all, and Alfred has the spell command where you can type the word, spell, and butcher. Anything, as long as it’s kind of close, it will bring it to you and then you can enter and it’ll copy it to your Pace board. And Raycast has something similar. [01:05:22] If you use the word, if you type the word define, it will bring you into the same thing. It uses the same keyboard or like use the same like dictionary and you can butcher anything and it’ll bring it out to you. But I had to literally like add a shortcut so I could type the word spell, because I’m like, I’m so used to typing command space. [01:05:39] S p, enter, butcher a word, and get it spelled correctly. [01:05:44] Brett: See, I wrote a system service for Mac Os that uses Google’s spelling. Uh, basically like the Did you mean it scrapes the, did you mean results? So you can type [01:06:00] any word as butchered as you want to, and it will bring back Google’s suggestion for Did you mean? And, and you can do that in a text editor. [01:06:10] You can just type a word, highlight it, and then, and then run it through the did you mean? Um, and then I incorporated that into launch bar so I can in launch bar just type space and then a butchered word and it will come back with the correct spelling of that word. Um, I’m not positive that service even works anymore. [01:06:31] Google has made a lot of changes since I first developed that, but, but yeah, that is a very handy feature. I’m very good at spelling. I, I am an eighth grade spelling bee champion. Um, [01:06:45] Bryan: Same, same seventh and eighth grade, I almost made it to nationals. [01:06:50] Brett: that said, if you put me on the spot and asked me to spell unnecessary, I would fuck it up. [01:06:55] Quinn: I, I can’t spell any word where there’s like a s and a C and they’re kind [01:07:00] of close to each other. I’ll decision. I can’t spell that right. I’ll put the s and a c in the wrong place every single time without fail. [01:07:07] Brett: d E s C I S C I O n Decision [01:07:12] Quinn: D E C S I O N. That’s decision for me. [01:07:17] Brett: That’s close enough. Yeah. I mean, [01:07:19] Quinn: if you right click that there good people are not sure what you mean. If you’re like d e c, like, and you’re like, it’s like that’s not a word. And you’re like, I know it’s [01:07:28] Brett: you mean description, [01:07:30] Quinn: click it and they’re like, Description to blank. And I’m like, No, it’s decision. And they’re like, You’re not close. [01:07:35] And I’m like, Please, I need to be close. [01:07:39] Brett: All right, well, thank you two for joining me today on short notice to fill in for the usual Overtired suspects. [01:07:49] Quinn: Nice. [01:07:50] Bryan: Excellent. All right. Uh, thank you so much. I am going to, Yeah. I don’t know. What am I saying? Wow. Okay, great. [01:07:58] Brett: Are you closing up my [01:08:00] podcast for me? [01:08:01] Bryan: No, I mean, I was going to, but then I wasn’t. What do you want me to do, Brad? Do you wanna close out your podcast? [01:08:06] Brett: I guess, I guess I, I feel like it’s my responsibility. I feel like this is on me. Um, so I will just say Brian Quinn, get some sleep [01:08:16] Bryan: Get some sleep. [01:08:17] Quinn: Thank you. I’ll try. [01:08:20] Bryan: Hmm. [01:08:21] [01:09:00]

You kinda gotta talk about Kanye this week, right? Plus TV, music, and movies. Kind of a pop culture free for all, just for you. Sponsor Grab your exclusive NordVPN deal by going to nordvpn.com/overtired to get a huge discount off your NordVPN Plan AND 4 months for free! It’s completely risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee! Mental Chillness is a safe space that heals with the power of laughter. Join Khanh and Jules, people with mental illness that come together weekly with occasional guests to share their daily process of working towards mental chillness. Show Links Heartbreak High Heartstoppers Daredevil Raymond and Ray Metallica: Some Kind of Monster Dig! Murder in The Front Row Casey Neistat’s very good video When Kanye Spewed Hate, Some Blamed His Mental Illness. Experts Say That Has Nothing to Do With It. Marbles CodeRunner Decker and GitHub repo Headliner Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Ye Old Mental Imbalance [00:00:00] intro-outro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired No Longer your Taylor Swift podcast, but a, a, a mental health podcast about the shit that keeps us up at night. I’m Christina Warren. I’m joined as always by my friends, Jeff Severance, Gunzel and Brett Terpstra. Hey guys, how are you? [00:00:21] Jeff: Good [00:00:22] Brett: good. I’m not. I’m not tired. Are you tired? [00:00:25] Christina: Oh, I’m exhausted, Jeff. No, [00:00:28] Jeff: I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m undecided. [00:00:30] Brett: What’s going on with you, Christina? [00:00:32] Christina: well, it’s seven o’clock in the morning and I went to bed at four, so that’s, that’s my, yeah. [00:00:40] Brett: I stayed up late last night because I got obsessed with a show that I’ve already seen, but you guys ever watch Arrow? [00:00:47] Jeff: Mm-hmm. [00:00:48] Christina: Yes. Not in a long time. [00:00:51] Brett: Yeah, it’s like 10 years old. Uh, it, I, I started watching The Flash with Al and like immediately there’s a crossover episode where characters from the Arrow come on, and it gave me this like, longing for watching Arrow, and it’s just such a great, like, revenge story. And I got, and everyone in it is hot. [00:01:12] Like everyone from like the main characters to the detective, to the, like the CFO company, like everyone’s hot. It’s, it’s, it’s a visually appealing show with a great revenge plot, and it’s way better than the flash. [00:01:30] Jeff: Wow. I’ve never seen either of those. [00:01:33] Christina: Uh, they’re from, they’re, they’re from Greg Vigilante who, uh, created brothers and sisters and, um, Couple of other things, but, uh, but who I, of course, always will remember because he was like the showrunner and one of the lead writers on Dawson’s Creek. So, uh, he also created Everwood. So, yeah. So, uh, but, but you know, it makes sense that like the longest running, most enduring kind of franchise thing of the CW is, is from like a Dawson’s Creek alum. [00:01:58] Um, so, so Brett, Brett, appreciate that. You’re, you’re enjoying and rewatching stuff like from like the absolute deepest bowels of Teen tv, Vdo [00:02:10] Brett: thank you for that perspective. I never would’ve known that without Christina. [00:02:15] Jeff: I tend to, I tend to re-watch things when I don’t feel like there’s something new for me to get. Uh, [00:02:23] Brett: that’s where I’m at right now. All, all of the shows, all the new shows we’ve been watching have ended and we’re in that, like, lull between seasons and we’re like, we’re watching a lot of Big Bang Theory and, and, and older shows and just finding out like, wow, we just started Dickinson, which I didn’t, I had never heard of on Apple [00:02:44] Christina: Oh yeah, it’s pretty good. Yeah, with [00:02:46] Brett: it is, it is pretty good. [00:02:48] Then there’s like three seasons of it already completed, so it’s a new, it’s a new show to. [00:02:54] Christina: yeah. No, she’s amazing because I believe that she, somehow, her agents must be just phenomenal because she was able to get the Dickinson deal and do, um, Hawkeye on Disney Plus, and they were like two at one point, one of, I think it was season three and Hawkeye, they were like airing at the same time. [00:03:13] And usually how the streaming things work is, it’s not quite as restrictive as like network TV shows where they’re like, You are committed to our show and only our show. But usually they’re like, You can’t be on two competing services with brand new shows at the same time. So whoever reps her is doing a fucking great job. [00:03:33] Uh, [00:03:34] Brett: was good too. [00:03:35] Christina: Well, yes, Hawkeye was great. Well, you know what? She’s really good. Um, [00:03:39] Brett: Apparently [00:03:41] Christina: she’s very good. Well, she’s, she was nominated for an Oscar when she was 11, so, Yeah. Um, but I mean, [00:03:47] Brett: Same. [00:03:48] Jeff: It’s not a [00:03:49] Christina: but, uh, uh, what was the, the movie was with the Edge of 17 or something. Um, [00:03:55] Jeff: Ooh, [00:03:56] Christina: it’s kind of like a No, uh, I know that’s a CX song, but it might have just been called, uh, 17. [00:04:02] But she, she, uh, she’s really good. Um, but she, uh, yeah, but, but Dickinson, um, I haven’t watched the whole thing, but I remember [00:04:12] Brett: I’ve just gotten going. But immediately, immediately I was like, This is a good show. I, I can get into this. And, and I haven’t, I haven’t read Emily Dickinson. Like El my partner, uh, is a big fan. She, she’s a poet by trade and like she knows all about Emily Dickinson. So it’s, it’s fun for her in a different way. [00:04:32] For me, it’s an exploration of, of an author that I, I really don’t know anything about. So this is all, it’s all new to me and fun for her. So it’s a good show. [00:04:44] Christina: That’s cool. Oh, and, and I was right, it was, the film was called Edge of 17, [00:04:48] Jeff: Oh, sorry. [00:04:50] Christina: uh, which also the Stevie Nicks song. I’m sure that’s why it was named that. But anyway, but yeah, no, that’s fun. That, [00:04:55] Jeff: wonderful album, Belladonna. Ooh. [00:04:58] Brett: Are you a CB Nicks fan? [00:05:00] Jeff: Oh, I’m a Stevie Nicks fan. Yeah, I got her right back here in the record. Bile [00:05:03] Brett: I could. I could. I could use more cv Nicks like, I’ve enjoyed what I’ve heard, but I’ve never done a deep dive on Stevie Nicks [00:05:10] Christina: so, So it’s funny you say that. So it’s funny that you say that like you and L are watching like Dickinson or whatever, and I love that you’re both doing this, but then we went to the Stevie Nicks place cuz what I’m re-watching right now, and I don’t always do this when there’s not more stuff to watch, it’s just sometimes what you want as a comfort. [00:05:27] I’m doing something which is absolutely stupid. I’m rewatching Glee and, And Glee was an, Glee was an insane show when it aired. And in retrospect it’s even more insane. It’s like the fact that that Ryan Murphy, not only that, it was like a show that was on mainstream like network tv, but that it was like a phenomenon and it was like a billion dollar enterprise is just. [00:05:53] Hilarious to me. But I was watching the Rumors episode of that, like last night because they, they did an episode it, they did an episode entirely dedicated to the Rumors album and, uh, uh, so yeah, it’s all, it’s all full [00:06:08] Brett: g, did you guys ever give the new Heartbreak High a chance? I still recommend that it is still, it is a I and I went back after Christina told me that this was a reboot. Uh, we went back and I watched the first episode of the original Heartbreak High, and it, it didn’t, it didn’t hook me. Um, It was, it was weird. [00:06:30] Like I could maybe, like if we completely run out of shows, I could see giving it more of a chance. But the new heartbreak high, I think you guys would love esp. Like, it, it’s that high school glee feeling. It’s, it’s super, it’s super diverse. High school. It’s kind of the way you wish high school was. Uh, but, but still with all the teen drama that you would expect, except it’s kind of like Heartbreakers, um, or Heart Stoppers, I mean where like, it’s the story of, of, I mean, there are queer people in the story and you keep worrying that they’re gonna go through what queer people in your high school went through, but they don’t like, it all ends up being supportive and, and like heartwarming even though there’s that tension of like, when is, when is the, when is the hate crime gonna happen? [00:07:23] Um, and, and [00:07:25] Jeff: Yeah. The way, the way that queer characters were allowed into TV for the longest time was as victims. [00:07:31] Brett: Yeah. [00:07:33] Christina: Or, [00:07:33] Brett: It’s a new era. [00:07:35] Christina: or, or Matt F’s place who like was allowed to kind of hug a guy occasionally and like, they had a kiss that was actually even filmed that they cut. I mean, this was 1993, where instead it just kind of looks like they like give each other some sort of look and, and like Bill or somebody sees it happen because it’s like his friend and he gets kind of uncomfortable, but like, they cut the kiss so it’s, you know, the, the victim, you know, or, or something else. [00:08:01] Yeah. [00:08:01] Brett: Did you guys watch Heart Stoppers? [00:08:04] Jeff: Mm. [00:08:05] Brett: Cause holy shit, like I, I grew up, like, I was not out in any way in high school. I had gay friends, but like I was, I came from an evangelical family and worked very hard to repress any homosexual urges that I. [00:08:23] Jeff: Mm [00:08:24] Brett: um, going back and watching these high school dramas about queer kids coming of age, uh, is for me, and maybe, and maybe you guys wouldn’t have the same reaction, but for me it’s just extremely heartwarming. [00:08:38] Uh, heart stoppers just melted my heart. And, uh, if you have, if even if you’re, even if you don’t have, uh, a like vested interest in it, I think it’s such a great show. [00:08:51] Christina: I, Uh, yeah. All, all my friends in high school were gay, basically. Um, and, and then I, and then I famously for years, like I would always be like the, the girl who would, like, I’d go to like gay Halloween or gay New Year’s Eve or whatever, managed to find like the one like straight adjacent person there, um, to get caught in compromising positions in the closet with [00:09:11] Jeff: Because all the straight sexual behavior had to happen in the closet at the gay New Year’s [00:09:15] Christina: Yes, exactly. That was, that was exact, honestly. And, and, and that’s like, yes. [00:09:22] Jeff: So I’m rewatching, I’ve stopped rewatching it, but I started rewatching Daredevil, the Netflix Daredevil. Um, it’s a great show. Uh, and I don’t know if you remember the, the journalist Ben Urick in that series played by Vondi Curtis Hall. Um, he’s, he’s incredible. He comes in early in the series, um, older black actor, um, who when I saw him in Daredevil was like one of those things where you’re like, How the fuck have I not seen this guy in 45 amazing shows or movies? [00:09:55] Um, because the, his, his presence is so incredible. And I go to IMDB to figure out like, have I seen him before? And I realize that like the role he had the most kind of repeat appearances in was Cop Rock in 1990. Do you remember Cop Rock the Musical about being cops? Um, [00:10:17] Brett: A, a new, a new level of propaganda. [00:10:19] Jeff: But yeah, but what was amazing is that like two days after, uh, watching a much of these episodes and thinking like it is a, it is a crime that this man has not been all over, you know, every amazing thing ever. I start watching Ray and Raymond, which is a movie that just came out on Apple tv, Ethan Hawk and you and McGregor are like two half brothers that have to deal with their, have to deal with their dad’s death. [00:10:44] And man, Vondi Curtis Hall has a great role in it. And so I’m just really hoping that from this day forward, uh, for as long as he lives, he’s born in 1950, so he is getting up there, uh, that we can see Vondi Curtis Hall over and over again cuz he’s just phenomenal. Also opening scene of Ray and Raymond, or Raymond and Ray, I don’t know which one it is, is like these two, like barely connected half-brothers. [00:11:08] One knocks on the door of the other in the middle of the night and he comes to the door and he says, Dad died. And then the other brother goes by his own hand [00:11:16] Brett: Ha, [00:11:17] Jeff: Cause it’s like the most bizarre way of two brothers communicating. It’s like, what? No. So I just always assumed to be by his own hand. It’s a great, it is an amazing movie about what, um, how our parents can live in us, um, and how we can become totally captive to their chaos. [00:11:36] Um, and how that has to be released and can be released. It’s an amazing movie. So first of all, first pick here today. Pop culture pick Vondi Curtis Hall. Second pick, Let’s see. Is it Ray and Raymond? Or Raymond and Ray? [00:11:48] Brett: I, uh, I’m absolutely watching this. Maybe even [00:11:52] Jeff: Raymond and Ray. Yeah. This dad named his, these two half brothers. He gave them the same name. [00:11:57] He named them both Raymond And it’s beautiful. It’s, it’s absurd and beautiful, so I highly recommend it. Anyway, I feel like we’re at the end of the podcast. [00:12:09] Brett: Yep. This is time to wrap it. Should we, should we do a sponsor break before we do the mental health corner? [00:12:17] Christina: Yeah, let’s go ahead and do that. [00:12:18] Jeff: Sure. [00:12:19] Brett: Uh uh, Jeff, I feel like a lead in to the mental health corner. Might be a, a promo swap with a, another podcast about mental health. [00:12:29] Jeff: Well, let me just go dig in here in my pocket and see if I have a promo swap to [00:12:32] Brett: what you got. Podcast Swap: Mental Chillness [00:12:33] Jeff: Oh, here’s one. Um, so the Mental Chillness podcast, if you’re looking for more mental health podcasts, mental Chillness is a safe space that heals with the power of laughter. It’s led by Con and Jules to people with mental illness that come together weekly with occasional guests to share their daily process of working towards mental chillness. [00:12:54] You see what they did, Chillness coming from childhood environments that weren’t open about mental wellbeing and emotional self-regulation. We can relate to that. Con and jewels are opening up the conversations of the everyday struggles of dealing with adhd, depression, anxiety, epilepsy, and growing into adulthood. [00:13:16] I’m not, not, not a complete process for me. At 47 , they share tips and tricks of emotional awareness from their personal experiences and how they hold themselves accountable. And the way they know to do it best is with humor. You can keep up with them on any podcast platform and the YouTube channel. [00:13:34] Mental Chillness for full video content. Thanks for swapping with us. Mental Chillness. [00:13:40] Brett: Yeah, that means they’re gonna be talking about us too. [00:13:43] Jeff: What the hell do they say about us? [00:13:45] Brett: Uh, maybe that we have an amazing mental health corner. [00:13:48] Jeff: Hmm. We’re in the corner. Mental Health Corner [00:13:51] Christina: I can start, um, I’m fine. Uh, I’m going out of town for 10 days tomorrow and I need to pack and I need to find some stuff. So that’s stressing me out a little bit. Um, but, but I’m fine in some ways. I’m actually doing pretty good. I’m a little bit stressed at the moment because I’m trying to figure out, and I’m very distracted and I’m stopping myself because I have until, uh, apparently the ninth to, to figure this out. [00:14:13] But Taylor Swift tickets, uh, were announced this morning, uh, before I woke up. And, uh, although maybe about the time I went to bed, which dumbass don’t ever go to sleep. Um, and so that’s stressing me out because my mom really wants to go and I have friends who really. O and I, uh, have a reputation for always being able to get the tickets. [00:14:39] And I don’t want another adult situation where I wind up. I mean, it’s, it’s inevitable that I’m gonna wind up having to pay over price for at least one of the shows I wanna go to. But I do not wanna be in another situation where I pay $3,000 for shitty ass seats like I did with Adele in Vegas when she then motherfucking canceled and then we had to reschedule, and now we’re going at the end of January. [00:15:03] And the whole thing I’m pissed about, like, Adele could go fuck herself. [00:15:06] Brett: You, you, you said multiple times that you were fine. And, uh, [00:15:11] Christina: I’m stressed. I’m clearly not [00:15:12] Brett: in my experience in 12 step programs, fine has a bunch of meetings. You wanna hear some of the acronyms that people have attributed to fine, [00:15:21] Christina: sure [00:15:22] Brett: Fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and emotional. [00:15:26] Christina: that’s accurate. That’s completely [00:15:27] Brett: Fran Frantic, insane, nuts and egotistical, Faithful involved, knowledgeable and experienced. [00:15:36] foggy, insecure, neurotic emotion. Uh, feeling I’m nothing to everyone like these. It goes on, there’s a whole list of what fine act, And this is funny because my, I, my, my therapist will ask me, How are you doing? And I’ll say, I’m good. And he’ll be like, Okay. That’s not a response to How are you doing? Like, yeah, like you can be, you can be all of these things, but good is not a proper response. [00:16:03] And we’ve talked about how like, I’ll often respond with like, I’m fucking great or absolutely fantastic if I’m in a good mood. But yeah, so I feel like fine is not fine, is not an answer to how’s your mental health. [00:16:17] Christina: No. So I think the first one, Fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and emotional. Is that what the first one [00:16:22] Jeff: You’re like, That’s what [00:16:23] Christina: Okay. Yeah, [00:16:24] Brett: that’s a, that’s an A Smith reference, [00:16:27] Christina: Oh, is it? Well, well done. Steven Tyler and Joe Perry. That is Joe Perry was the other [00:16:32] Jeff: Never. Well done. Uh, Stephen Tyler. Never ever. Well done. [00:16:36] Christina: I mean, well live Tyler. Like he [00:16:39] Jeff: No Live Tyler. [00:16:40] Brett: Well done. Well done. Well [00:16:42] Jeff: the, There wasn’t Mc [00:16:43] Christina: I’m saying [00:16:45] Jeff: There was a web post on Mc Sweeney’s. Ones titled, I’m the guy who puts the bandanas on Stephen Tyler’s microphone Stand [00:16:51] Christina: Oh, I remember this. I [00:16:52] Jeff: And I’m sick of it. And I, and then I’m sick and tired of it or something [00:16:56] Christina: I, I, Yes, yes, yes. I remember this. I mean, that, that, that’s, that’s almost as good as, Oh, speaking of mixed Sweeneys, it is now, um, you know, decorative gor season motherfuckers. Um, [00:17:08] Brett: Classic. [00:17:09] Christina: um, no, but yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m stressed. The, the, the, the ticket drama aside, which is just, that’s just occupying the front part of my brain cuz I can focus on it. Um. I don’t, I mean, look, I don’t care. I’ll, I’ll figure that out. Uh, getting packed and, um, honestly, I’m trying to, so like, things are messy and we had like a, a cleaner come in and she did a good job, but something was put away and I don’t know where. [00:17:37] So I’m gonna have to go through a bunch of stuff to try to find my, um, my portable, uh, wireless mic packs. The alternative being, and I don’t wanna do this because A, it’s the easy way out and b, it costs money that I don’t wanna spend. But I’m afraid, like if I can’t find them in time, then I’m just gonna have to buy another fucking set of wireless mic packs that I don’t wanna do. [00:17:59] So I have, uh, and so if I can avoid spending $300, I would like to. So, um, yeah, but I’m gonna be gone for 10 days and that’s just getting everything ready for that. I’m not actually nervous about. Yeah, I’m not actually nervous about universe at all. Like, I’m feeling really good about that. And there are gonna be some cool things that happen when I’m in San Francisco. [00:18:22] Like I was, I was asked to speak, um, at, at a class at, uh, at Berkeley, um, next week. And so that’s really awesome. And, um, uh, the EFF awards happened to coincide with when I’ll be there. And so I was, uh, so I’m gonna get to go to those. Um, so like, it’s gonna be a good trip. Um, I’m just, you know, it’s, I’m gonna be gone for a long time and, uh, just getting everything ready for that is stressful. [00:18:48] Jeff: When you’ve had quite a like four to six weeks, really, [00:18:51] Brett: Yeah. Right. [00:18:52] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:54] Jeff: Just like running. [00:18:56] Brett: Last time I was at the EFF Awards, uh, Best of Booty was DJing and it was, it was crazy. There was a Sisters of Mercy BC Boys mashup that they played, and I could not stop dancing. It was insane. [00:19:09] Christina: Oh, the, I, I, I’ve been to those booty parties before, um, in, in San Francisco. God, I hadn’t thought about those in years. [00:19:16] Brett: Christina, that’s, Yeah, I would be stressed out as well. That is, You got a lot on your plate and you haven’t had downtime, [00:19:25] Jeff: I feel like, uh, the I’m fine is always, always, always missing one word, which is godammit. [00:19:33] Brett: or fuck off. I’m fine. Fuck off. [00:19:36] Christina: I’m fine. Fuck off. [00:19:38] Jeff: I had a therapist once who asked, how do, I said, Good. And, and she paused and she said, I’d like to invite you to make a bigger wave than good [00:19:50] Anyhow, um, I could, I could go. So they started talking. Should I, [00:19:54] Christina: Yes. [00:19:56] Jeff: um, I’m, I’m doing, I’m, I, I was gonna say I’m doing good. Um, I was reminded yesterday, uh, in a therapy appointment about two kinds of check-ins, uh, that you can do with yourself. One is just called like a five point check-in where it’s like, feel my feet, feel my hands, feel my butt on the chair, feel the back of the chair on my back, feel like into the center of my stomach. [00:20:20] You know, if you can kind of like quiet yourself enough to see if that’s even possible, it’s like a, a good little check in a good little way of like figuring out, am I present or am I not, or whatever. Right? There’s no wrong answer. And then another one is, is when having sort of. , Um, and you’re in kind of an elevated state, mental health wise to just kind of ask yourself like, how old do I feel right now? [00:20:42] Right? Like, cuz sometimes it can be the case that this is some like old version of you that’s like taking up all the space. Um, and actually you don’t need that old version of you to be reacting this way in this situation, Right? So I. Question for my therapist, which is . I have been going down YouTube rabbit holes that have definite years attached to them. [00:21:07] So as an example, watching interviews with the Edam and SMILE Band. David Lee Roths Band from like 86, right? And watching performances all through 1986, or watching interviews with the Sound Garden guys, uh, and performances in 1991. And I realized that like there were two or three different sort of time brackets in the last two weeks that I’ve been just obsessively going down YouTube rabbit holes. [00:21:32] And they all have very specific times in my life attached to them. Sixth grade was a huge time for me. Junior in high school was a huge time for me. And I asked my therapist, I’m like, Do you think this is an indication of how old I feel right now? Like if I’m, if I’m just obsessively watching the Edam and Smile band, right? [00:21:50] Like through the ages, am I, am I somehow in my sixth grade space? And if so, why? Right? So anyway, I’m just turning, uh, turning YouTube rabbit holes into a mental health investigation. [00:22:02] Christina: I don’t, I don’t, I wonder if it’s your wanting to recapture either the comfort you get from that era or the, the things you remember from there, rather so much than like, Feel like that age, like if it’s just more about like, like the comfort of that time. Kind of like watching TV shows that we’ve seen before because it can be more relaxing and, and you know, there’s like a, as we were talking about before, there can just be like an element, like when there’s nothing else new to watch, it’s like, well, I’m gonna watch what I’ve, what I’ve seen before, um, is on the background. [00:22:32] I wonder cuz I do that too sometimes. And I definitely don’t feel like I’m re oftentimes I don’t, it’s not necessarily about like reliving like those periods of time. It’s about like, I liked however I felt then or whatever comfort I got from that period. [00:22:45] Jeff: yeah, totally. I, I think that’s, that’s a piece of it too. It has to be. I also noticed lately that like, I’m really, so I was a, like you with Taylor Swift, um, Christina, I was a super fan of a handful of things from. Fifth grade on, I always had one or two bands that I was like obsessed with. Like Motley Crew was one at one point, right? [00:23:10] Metallica was one at one point. David Lee Roth and Van Halen were ones at one point. Right. And then it got into more sophisticated stuff. But like, those were the ones I went deep on. Those were all pre-internet. And one of the, one of the things that I find draws me in, um, for days on end, if it’s like end of the day tubing is like, I can go now and learn all the things that I had no access to learning about these bands, then I mean like a Great, I’m gonna bounce for a second. [00:23:38] A great example is, have you ever watched some kind of monster, the Metallica documentary [00:23:42] Christina: Oh, it’s one of my favorites. It, it’s one of my favorites, and I’m not even like, and, and I’m somebody who, frankly, like, because my, my generation’s biggest exposure to Metallica was that they sued their fans, right? Like that was, that was the whole thing, was that they, they literally sued their fans and, but that is one of my favorite, like documentaries. [00:24:03] I still can’t like that. The Dixie Chicks [00:24:05] Jeff: And why? Why is that a why? Why do you love that documentary? [00:24:08] Christina: Because you get to see the breakdown of what’s happening and band in a very real way, like most of the time in, you know, there are a couple of exceptions. The band by Martin Scorsese is obviously kind of, you know, and that’s a hybrid, like concert film, other thing, like there are some documentaries about musicians that really show the real behind the scenes stuff, but by and large they are PR blitzes, right? [00:24:30] It’s been like that. The director has been chosen. They are making it very clear what footage is and is not going to be shown with some kind of monster. I’m sure there was stuff that was left on the cutting room floor that would’ve made individuals look even worse or, or, you know, whatnot. Although I thought that it, you know, humanize them in a lot of regards. [00:24:49] But like, it was capturing a very specific moment and some very real things that you typically don’t see. Not only do you not see them in documentaries usually, but you almost never see them in celebrity documentaries. So for me, that’s why that to me is one of the standout, um, like rock, you know, like celebrity, like whatever, musician documentaries of our time, especially since, because of the success of that film and the success of, of the Dixie Chick ones and whatnot. [00:25:21] There then became this whole like, niche industry, which now most of ’em are on Netflix that are pure propaganda, right? Where you will never see anything even remotely real and verte. Um, like it, it, it’s a documentary only in the sense that like somebody shows up for a few hours and follows them around, but you’re not seeing anything. [00:25:41] Whereas I think that some kind of monster you got the sense that you got shit, you got to see shit that you. So one of the best in the genre would be dig Not, uh, you know, have you guys seen that on, on Timor about the, um, uh, uh, Brian Jonestowns massacre and, uh, and um, uh, the Dandy Warhols and, um, that is, she had access to these two bands for like a decade and she captured so much of their stuff. [00:26:11] And in fact, like, uh, uh, the guy who’s from the Ryan Jonestown massacre, like, he was not happy with the, with the film. It won the, uh, the Sundance, um, like highest honors at Sundance. Um, when it came out, that is like a real ass documentary, but both of those bands are small enough that you could have, you know, the risk of maybe pissing them off and doing things you could get around, get away with. [00:26:35] And that to me is like, that’s like a real ass documentary. Some kind of monster is a little more polished, but it’s like still showing shit that. Does not paint them in a good light. And that definitely captures a moment in time that their record label, I’m sure would not have liked for that to be the, you know, the promo for the album. [00:26:55] Jeff: The thing that I loved about it, having been a fan in, I think I saw them, I know I saw them on the Injustice for All Tour, and I must have been a fan for a couple years before that. But that’s, and I saw them on the Black Album tour and then I kind of fell off. But like having been in bands from eighth grade until I was about 24, the marker of a band experience is that you have so many stupid fights, right? [00:27:17] You have the dumbest arguments, right. About rifts, about is that, you know, a little too jammy or is that a right And, and you never assume that Metallica, especially because they had a persona that was just so kind of mythical, right? Like they seemed, uh, beyond human to me as a kid. And to watch them having these same little fights, um, and to watch how, sort of like, for lack of a better word, like kind of whiny they could be with each other as they made this music was like, God, I wish I knew this when I was a kid. [00:27:52] Cuz I really think that you, you try to become the. I watched a lot of people go down bad roads trying to be what they thought these people were. Right. But in fact they were just like us cuz they’re just human beings. And for anybody, No, this is like, Metallica hires a therapist for $40,000 a month to be with them for like two years as they try to make a record. [00:28:14] And in the course of that, Jason Newstead, their basis quits. The therapist himself starts suggesting lyrics, uh, and pissing the band off like it is. It is amazing. [00:28:26] Christina: It is amazing cuz the therapist like, gets off on the fame and like starts to see himself as a member of the band and, and [00:28:32] Jeff: to play it. Cool. [00:28:34] Christina: he is. But it, it, it’s fantastic. And, uh, yeah. Um, and it’s funny I just looked this up. Yeah. Some kind of monster and, um, and Dig came out the same year, which is probably why I associate them together a little bit. [00:28:47] Uh, but, but no, it’s, it’s just, it’s a great, it’s a great fucking documentary. [00:28:53] Jeff: and to bring it back to being a kid really quick, like the, the sweetest part of that documentary is when they hire Robert to heal, to be their new bass player. After, after, uh, uh, auditioning a bunch of people and they’re sitting at the table with him telling them he’s in and they say, And what we want to do is we’re gonna give you a million dollars just to join. [00:29:13] And that’s, that’s just to join. And then you’ll start getting other money, right? And he watching him just be like, What the fuck? And then they cut to this shot of him bouncing around his bedroom as a goddamn grown ass man, pre million dollars playing his bass like a little kid in his room. And he just got hired from a million dollars to be the bass player in Metallica, [00:29:33] It was like amazing. Anyway. [00:29:35] Brett: feel like after you watch some kind of monster, you have to go back and watch Murder in the Front Row [00:29:40] Jeff: Oh, so good. Yeah, that’s true. Good point. That’s the early thrash documentary that documents the early days of Metallica and uh, and Exodus and [00:29:50] Brett: era. [00:29:51] Jeff: yeah, that’s true. That is a nice, uh, added piece now. [00:29:55] Brett: Jeff turned me onto that documentary. It was, it was like, yeah. It, it brought me back to being a certain age again, um, to like, to remember where, where Exodus was, like the beginning of so many things and, and, and how the, the interactions between all those early thrash bands, uh, change exchanging members and everything and kicking members out and. [00:30:21] Christina: Um, yeah, I, I, I wanna go back and watch that. I, I have never seen that. That sounds amazing. This is just a side tangent cuz I was looking at the directors of some kind of monster, and this is why I think that film works, like, why it’s like better than almost anything of its genre. The two directors, um, are, are probably most, Well they, they directed a documentary called Brothers Keeper, which is very well known. [00:30:42] But what they’re most famous for is they, they did the Paradise Lost documentaries for HBO about the West Memphis. and, and which, you know, similar to a thin blue line, like is responsible [00:30:55] Jeff: did not realize that was the same [00:30:58] Christina: I didn’t either. I didn’t either until I just looked that up and I went, Holy shit. Okay, well that makes sense because you had real fucking like, you know what I mean? [00:31:06] Like you had real fucking filmmakers. [00:31:08] Jeff: Right, right. Awesome. So I don’t know where my mental health check check-in began or ended, but that’s where I’m [00:31:15] Brett: I can actually segue your mental health check in just fine. Um, so first of all, when you ask Christina why she liked some kind of monster and she knew like she, she had reasons off the top of her head, that blows me away because I watched things and I’m like, I was fucking great. I love that. But if someone were to be like, What, what was so great about it? [00:31:40] I have to think really hard. I have to like do all of this analytical processing in my head, and I usually come up with the wrong answer. And like later on late at night, I’ll be like, Wait, no, here’s why I actually like that. Here’s why that spoke to me. So it, it blows me away when other people are like, Yo, because this and this and this and this, obviously this is why it was great. [00:32:03] That’s, uh, that blows me away about Christina. Um, uh, and [00:32:07] Christina: And I haven’t, and I haven’t seen that. I haven’t seen that in, in at least a decade. Sorry, go on. [00:32:12] Brett: Sure. Exactly. That’s what I’m talking about. Um, uh, randomly the vow is back, Christina, and, [00:32:19] Christina: Oh my God. We have to talk about it at some point. Um, it’s, Did you see the episode last night? [00:32:25] Brett: Uh, I, No, I’ve only seen the first episode of the new series. [00:32:29] Christina: Okay. Okay. Uh, the, we’ll talk about it next time I’m on a pod because at that point we’ll have another couple episodes. But the one that aired last night, um, and, and, and Jeff, if you need to watch this, we’ll find a way to do it or I’ll lend you my HBO login. But if you don’t already have HBO. Okay. But it, it’s, uh, yeah. [00:32:48] Sorry. It’s back. It’s great. Sorry. Go on. Go on. [00:32:51] Brett: so speaking of feeling a certain age, uh, this actually was a big, uh, big part of my last therapy session. Uh, because when I’m talking to my parents and they, they, they will intentionally press a button. They’ll say something like, There’s no evidence for evolution or Democrats or murdering babies. [00:33:12] And like they are, they’re hot button topics that immediately send me back to being in high school. And when I first started splitting from the church and, and I first started having dinnertime arguments with my parents and I, I hyperventilate like. Once they say something like that, if you were to say something like that, or if any other person in the world were to say something like that, I could calmly say, Well actually here, here, here’s what I believe here, here are the, the known facts. [00:33:48] And, and I could explain to you why I believe what I believe, but when it’s my parents, like it sends me back to being this 16 year old kid who’s just starting to like break away from indoctrination and just starting to like flail, like I was flailing. Like I knew, I didn’t believe what they believe, but I didn’t know what else to believe. [00:34:13] And it is rough and like we’re working like therapy right now. I’m working on trying to. A Sue, um, I, uh, inform that, that younger version of me, so that the adult version of me can have these conversations with my parents in like a sane way. Uh, and like usually a statement like that results in me storming out and, and not talking them to them for a couple weeks. [00:34:45] Um, and, and I would like to find a way around that where things could remain civil. Um, clearly they, they’re not looking for civility when they say things like that, so like, it’s up to me to like maintain that civility. But man, that has been, that has been a, a trial for me. But, uh, like mental health wise, I, I hit depression. [00:35:13] Um, and I was able to lift myself out of it pretty quickly. Um, I’ve, I’ve developed new coping strategies that allow me to, uh, use, um, uh, rigorous scheduling to kind of, uh, break the cycle. And I had a, I had a, a manic episode that I was able to keep down to just, uh, two nights of no sleep and then immediately curtail it and never get to that, like shaky, um, real super manic point. [00:35:51] And then I was able to, Stop depression after just a few days, and depression usually lasts me, My bipolar depression usually lasts me at least two weeks. And, uh, thanks to my new coping mechanisms and, uh, my girlfriend’s understanding of, of what was going on. Uh, actually I’m, I’m pretty good today. I’m not gonna say I’m like totally stables, totally out of depression, but I’m, I’m productive. [00:36:23] I’m, I’m not thinking critical thoughts, self-critical thoughts. I, I, I, I feel like you guys like me today, um, which is, you know, a great, a great place to be. I had coffee. See? That’s super sweet. It doesn’t feel like that to me. And it’s not your fault. Like [00:36:44] Christina: No, no. [00:36:45] Brett: That’s nothing that you [00:36:46] Christina: no, no, no, no, no. And I wanna be clear. I understand that impulse, so I like, I’m not discounting that. I’m just letting you know like that. Our reality is we love you and I know that that how your brain sees things, that it doesn’t always feel that way or whatever. But I’m just putting it out there because sometimes it has helped hear it over and over again like we do love you. [00:37:04] But anyway, Sorry, go on. You were having, [00:37:06] Brett: yeah, so, so my best friend from middle school, um, we were, we were thickest thieves. We were in the church together. And, uh, we lost, we, we drifted apart a little bit in high school, but we were still friends. And then kind of just ceased our connection after, uh, a couple years after high school. And, um, I hadn’t really, hadn’t really interacted with him. [00:37:34] And, um, I had coffee with him. I had seen some of his posts on Facebook. He had seen some of mine, and I realized, yeah, I still, I still connect with this guy. Like we still go through the. We still hurt in the same ways and we still are dealing with the same shit. And, uh, so we got together, I, I, I instigated it months ago, and then I had like a manic episode. [00:37:58] I’m like, I just, I can’t, I can’t be with you right now. And, and it dragged on for a couple months. We finally did it and holy shit, like it was, he’s overweight and I gave him shit in middle school and high school, like, just joking, like, look at you chubs and, and like to look back and realize how much pain he was in, um, and how, how much that affected his mental health. [00:38:30] Uh, he’s been through, well he’s been through like prison time and, and shit that I, I don’t necessarily have any, uh, any way of relating to. In fact, all my high school friends went to prison except for me, uh, . I don’t know what that says, [00:38:49] Jeff: I have a similar situation. [00:38:51] Brett: yeah. Uh, but it was, it was a very meaningful, like, it, it, as far as mental health goes, like it was, and he’s still dealing with a lot of shit. [00:39:01] And, uh, but seeing how he’s grown and the things he’s been through and how he’s dealt with it was very informative to me. So that’s my mental health check in. Should we take a sponsor break? 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That’s n o d vpn.com/ Overtired. Go grab this amazing deal and start surfing securely nord vpn.com/ Overtired. [00:41:33] Jeff: And please join us again, uh, for the next episode of Can We Lose a sponsor? [00:41:39] Brett: didn’t, I did not get in trouble for the Norwegian blood sports last week. [00:41:43] Jeff: listeners would not be surprised that Brett has a shortcut on his phone and he hits it when he walks into his office and the lights go down. Uh, a sort of Catnet mist, uh, is expelled into the air and, uh, and Nord VPN is fired up and he is ready to go. No the Other Conway [00:41:58] Brett: ready to go? Should we, uh, should we talk about Conway West? Kanye. Conway, Conway Yest [00:42:07] Christina: yeah. [00:42:08] Jeff: Twitty. [00:42:09] Brett: Kanye. Kanye Yee. Should we talk about. [00:42:12] Christina: Yay. Yay. [00:42:14] Brett: Yay. [00:42:15] Jeff: I’ll see what happens. I’m not inclined. [00:42:18] Brett: Why is it, Why would it be Yeezy? But then, Yay, [00:42:21] Jeff: don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. You can’t do it. You’re like, [00:42:26] Brett: Yay is spelled y a y. [00:42:28] Jeff: to another white podcast, Discusses Kanye West. [00:42:32] Brett: what is going on? What is going on with I, I want Christina’s take on what is happening. [00:42:37] Christina: Uh, I mean, the whole thing is sad. So I’ve mentioned on this podcast before that I’ve, by and large stopped having, like, making any sort of public comments about him or anything, and like finding any sort of like entertainment and the spectacle. Like in, in early 2016 when he was going on some of his, his Twitter rants and stuff, like it was, the meltdown that was happening was entertaining, but we didn’t know that. [00:43:01] I mean, in retrospect, maybe it should have been obvious, but we didn’t know that he was bipolar. He hadn’t been diagnosed yet. He hadn’t had like that, that breakdown on stage, like those things hadn’t happened. I’m in no way defending anything that he said, cuz I think it’s important and I think that people continuing to platform him actually and like interview him on podcasts for so, but basically what’s been happening is he’s made a lot of antisemitic and really crazy out there and frankly, conspiratorial like qan shit comments, um, uh, about the Jewish media controlling everything and, and these Jewish doctors diagnosing him with something he doesn’t think he has and all this crazy shit. [00:43:36] And then he’s doubled and tripled down on it. And, uh, he’s been dropped by, uh, by Adidas. So his, his shoe empire, um, is, is gone. He’s, uh, you know, he’d already lost things with his record label. Like they hadn’t, didn’t have an arrangement. But Def Jam has basically been like, we’re not doing anything with you. [00:43:54] CAA dropped him, um, documentary that he had is not gonna come out. Balenciaga uh, uh, dropped their affiliation. Um, his partnership with the gap ended like, His career is basically, I mean, I’m not gonna say it’s over because people love comeback stories and people will forgive geniuses lots and lots of things, but it’s, it, it’s really, um, bad. [00:44:18] But what I wanted to talk about, and I wanted to get your two perspectives, because you’re both bipolar, I have a hard time with this. Not in any way that I want to absolve or in any way, like say the, what he like give excuses for what he said, cuz that’s, that’s not the case. But to me, this is somebody who, for years now, has clearly been in mental health crisis. [00:44:40] Like, and, and I, we’ve even talked about this on this pod before, Brett, like it’s angered me cuz I’m like, it’s similar to Britney Spears. There are people who are in their lives who clearly don’t give a shit about. Because they’re letting them continue to just like spiral. And in this case, it’s happening really publicly. [00:44:56] And I’ve actually been really bothered by a couple of things. One, the number of like podcasts hosts and other people who have continued to do interviews with him. Like, uh, Lex Friedman brought him on his podcast because Lex Friedman thought he’d, he thought he’d be smart enough to be able to talk him out of all of his conspiratorial bullshit. Lex, of course, you’re not Lex. Of course you’re not. And and also he’s not mentally well, so all you’re doing is, is platforming somebody who is not in a position, in my opinion. Like you see somebody who’s going through a mental health crisis, don’t bring them on your fucking podcast for clout because that’s what you’re doing. [00:45:34] The whole reason you’re doing, it’s cuz you know you’re getting clicks. Even if you’re like, Oh, well I’m smart enough that I can change his mind. No, you can’t. He’s sick. He’s fucking sick. [00:45:43] Brett: my understanding is that he’s willfully untreated for bipolar. Is that correct? [00:45:48] Christina: That is, that is correct. And that is not uncommon. Right. And, and I’m not defending any of this. I’m just saying these are things that as the public, as we talk about, it should be part of the conversation. And instead the conversation seems to be either, how can we use this for clicks, or I’m going to defend him because of my own issues and, and, and racism and, and, and, and antisemitism and bigotry or, and then this is what does honestly bother me, where you got people who go, Oh, well mental illness has nothing to do with the way he’s acting. [00:46:22] He’s just a motherfucking asshole. So fuck this guy. And this has nothing to do with this mental health. And to me that is really harmful. And that’s coming from people who should fucking know better. [00:46:31] Brett: Yeah, no, I, I a hundred percent agree. Um, I want, I wanna pause for a moment on the willfully untreated, uh, aspect of it because like so many artists in history, um, dating back for as far as we can reasonably make, we have enough documentation to reasonably make a, a post-mortem assessment. Like there have been so many bipolar artists in history, and so many people have faced the, uh, since, since treatment began this for a bipolar person. [00:47:08] Like we are creative people and, and we create, and the idea of medicating. Something that we, once we have a diagnosis, it’s, it’s hard for us to separate what we create from our mental illness. And the idea of treating it is a very holy shit, what if I can’t do this thing? In Kanye’s case, that has made him famous. [00:47:35] Uh, like the idea of Kanye not being able to create has to be terrifying. And, and I, I get why someone would say, No, I can’t treat this. I’m just gonna roll with it. But to your point, [00:47:48] Christina: Especially if your first experience with medication, which as you can both probably attest, what we can all do has been negative and has maybe like lessened and flattened your creativity and you feel drugged. Because many times that is, especially if you’re in like a, like a, an acute mental health crisis, the first thing they’re going to give you is basically going to be a tranquilizer and it is going to mute you. [00:48:09] So, sorry, go on. I didn’t mean to cut you [00:48:11] Brett: Yeah. Well, and, and I highly, I talked about Ellen Forney last week. Um, I highly recommend anyone thinking about this particular topic. Uh, read Marbles by Ellen Forney, uh, cuz she goes through this. Uh, this whole thought process. But, um, to your point, like, yeah, I, I’m bipolar. I say crazy shit when I’m manic. [00:48:36] Um, I, I intentionally push buttons when I’m manic. I, uh, my train of thought goes places that, uh, uh, stable me, never would. Um, so, and, and I, you know, I only have hypomania to, to say that that mental illness, that bipolar couldn’t make someone say the crazy shit. Couldn’t, like, there was a, I think it was N Y T, uh, didn’t article on how he wanted to use Hitler and the title of his last album and like, frequently Espes an a fondness for Hitler. [00:49:17] Um, like this shit. Absolutely can be attributed to mental illness and to say otherwise is disingenuous and [00:49:27] Christina: And unhelpful. And, okay. I, this is what I wanted to point out cuz this was the article that finally made me wanna talk about it. Uh, there were two things. One, I thought a really good exploration how I think a lot of people feel Casey Nasdat did like a vlog on his channel, um, where he, he talked about how Kanye broke his heart and talked about what a huge fanny was of Kanye and how disappointing all this stuff is. [00:49:47] And he does elude a little bit to some of the mental health stuff. But just as a pure like fan human perspective, I thought his video was really good. That’s positive. Here’s the negative and this is what fucking pisses me off and this really pisses me off because this is a place I used to work. The headline for Gizmoto is when Kanye, when Kanye spewed hate, some blamed his mental illness experts say that has nothing to do with it. [00:50:13] And. Fuck you, First of all. First of all, this whole thing was written clearly when you read the post. It was written as a response to people who would say on Twitter or online, whether it’s being seen as defensive or not being like, okay. Maybe chill out a little bit on making on, on some of like the, the rhetoric because the guy has clearly gone well and going, Oh well, there’s no way in hell. [00:50:37] Just because you’re mentally ill doesn’t mean you spew antisemitic shit. Sometimes it does. Um, and, and I mean certainly if you have schizophrenia, uh, and I’m not saying he does, but certainly that’s very famous for people saying all kinds of crazy shit. You, you’ve just said, like, uh, you know, um, uh, and I’ve known people who are bipolar, who have said all kinds of stuff that is completely out there and conspiratorial and is like paranoid. [00:51:01] And that is delusional, frankly. Um, when they’re in states. And, and I’m not saying that there aren’t, like I, I’m not making it as an excuse, I’m just saying, and maybe it doesn’t, it’s not a subset of some things that exist, but maybe it’s the push buttons. We don’t know. All I’m saying is that what they did is they wanted to prove. [00:51:19] People on Twitter wrong. So they called up psychologists and psychiatrists who have never evaluated him, who probably don’t even know the situation to get them to say, Oh no, um, this has nothing to do. His, his, his actions have nothing to do with his mental health and fuck you. Like on the, in the same breath, we see some of the same people who say that a homeless guy in, in, in Prospect Park where I used to live, who, uh, was, was spewing, really was saying really terrible things, uh, tossing urine on a woman and killed her dog. [00:51:52] Were saying that that guy should be excused because clearly he’s mentally ill and, and, and shouldn’t be arrested. But were saying that Kanye West. Going through a clearly, like a, a, a mental, like a, a, a manic episode where no one in his inner circle seems to give a fuck about him, and the public is just like gawking at it. [00:52:13] We’re saying, Oh, but that has, that has no bearing. His, his completely outrageous behavior has, has no bearing on mental health. Like, what, what is it? You know what I mean? Like the same people are saying both of those things and, and that really bothers me. And I’m sorry, I’m with my rant. [00:52:26] Brett: no, it’s fine. I, I, I want to hear Jeff’s input too, but I will say that, For me, growing up in an evangelical, like fundamentalist childhood combined with years of mania and depression makes me extremely, um, uh, susceptible to conspiracy theory. Um, like, just like the fundamentalist upbringing, you are always looking for who’s persecuting you and who is to blame for your problems. [00:53:01] And you combine that with a little bit of mania and mental illness, you can go off the reels fast and, and like that is, that’s not a personal, like, I have to work really hard not to buy into conspiracy theories that make just a little bit of sense. Oh yeah. That, that explains this thing in, that fills in these holes. [00:53:23] In my understanding, in a way that I can accept and, and to be radicalized from there, it’s, it’s, it’s an easy step. And, and to get down, down far right, uh, keyholes is, is pretty easy. But Jeff, do you, do you wanna weigh in on this? [00:53:42] Jeff: I don’t know that I have anything to add to what you two have said, which I really feel resonates with me for sure. [00:53:52] Brett: I do feel at the same time that Kanye has been very bad for mental illness. Um, like I’m embarrassed enough to talk about my bipolar, uh, bipolar comes with more of a stigma than something like ADHD does. Um, people are immediately more scared. When you tell them you’re bipolar. Um, my, to be fair, the reaction in general in interpersonal conversations has been very uplifting for me. [00:54:20] But, uh, to have someone publicly making bipolar look that bad, it’s, it’s not great for me personally. I, So, speaking of, nope, I can’t segue easily into gratitude from here. Um, but I feel like we should, before the show ends, [00:54:40] Christina: Yeah. No. Well, I think, I think this is our segue here, which is, which is like, I’m grateful for both of you and I’m grateful for this podcast for having these hard conversations and to have a place where we’re not being like, we’re not doing like the knee-jerk, like bad hot takes, right? Like, I’m grateful for that. [00:54:58] So now let’s talk about some apps we’re grateful for. [00:55:00] Jeff: for sure. For sure. Grapptitude [00:55:03] Brett: Um, I’ll kick it off. Uh, my pick this week is Code Runner, which will not matter to anyone who does not write code, but if you write code in Java or Lua or Rust or Ruby or Python, um, it is a great little like self-contained app where you can try things out, um, execute them as you write them and see what the result will be. [00:55:27] So when I’m working on a larger project, uh, in X Code or Sublime or VS code, I’ll copy snippets of code out, create small testable instances of it. And, and then Code Runner provides like a very IDE like interface with auto completion and everything that I can modify and, and continually test and refine a small piece of code, um, and see the output of it as I work on it. [00:55:56] Uh, it, it handles maybe 30 different languages. Um, and you can add, uh, any, any processors you need to it. And it’s, it’s, it’s fantastic as a small, uh, test tool and it’s available on setup and for any developers out there, especially developers who already have set up, um, that’s my recommendation for. [00:56:21] Jeff: I, uh, I want to add something about Code Runner, which I love is the first thing you do when you download it is you go into the preferences and you go to the general tab. You won’t have to go there, you’ll be right there. Friends. Uh, at the bottom it says file type associations and you can edit which files get automatically opened by Code Runner. [00:56:41] In my experience, when you open this thing the first time, it takes everything. It’s super greedy and it’s super confusing. But, uh, once you make that change, it’s just wonderful cause you can run Diagnos Diagnostics on your code and there’s so much you can do. It’s really nice. [00:56:57] Brett: yeah. But yeah, like if you, if you don’t regularly use Lua and, and then you, you need to edit a Lua file and you double click it, instead of opening in VS code or Sublime, it’s gonna open in Code Runners. So yeah, it’s worth checking out those preferences. [00:57:14] Jeff: Yep. Yep. All right. Should I go next? Christina, you wanna go next? [00:57:19] Christina: Um, yeah, I’ve, um, I’ve got one. So, uh, this came out last week and, um, I, I missed it, but I, uh, love this. And, um, it, it’s free, it’s open source, but you can also like name your own price if you want to support it. So were either of you, um, uh, ever HyperCard users. [00:57:39] Jeff: No. [00:57:40] Brett: before my, before my Mac time. [00:57:42] Christina: So I, um, and it was actually technical. It was before my time, but for whatever reason, we had like a version of it in elementary school, I wanna say. [00:57:51] And I, it was sort of my introduction to the idea of hypertext and, and, and, and linking things and whatnot, which is sort of what it did. While there’s, um, uh, an app that came out last week, uh, from, um, Beyond a Loom, um, called Decker. And um, it is basically built to be, A, um, it’s like a HyperCard, um, kind of clone that has the visual aesthetics of like a classic Macs app. [00:58:20] So it’s kind of like the, the black and white, uh, kind of thing, like straight out of 1984. And, um, a lot of the same simplicity that HyperCard had. I’m gonna be, uh, reading from their website, uh, while adding many subtle and overt quality of life improvements, like a deep undue history, support for scroll wheels and touch screens, more modern keyboard navigation and bulk editing stuff. [00:58:41] And so you could use it if you wanted to like, create, you know, like throwback looking zines or, you know, presentations, book games, doodling. Um, what’s really neat about it is that, uh, The guy who who created this is, is that it’s like command line friendly. Um, it comes with, uh, his own language lilt, which I think is inspired by Lua, uh, which is like, uh, like his own kind of language where you can like read and write and manipulate and, and execute Decker commands. [00:59:09] Headlessly. Um, it, like I said, it, it’s, uh, open source on, um, GitHub, but, um, it’s also he’s putting out periodic binaries for Mac West and Windows on I io where you can like pay what you want and, um, there’s a browser demo that you can check out. I just, this is the sort of thing where it’s not an app that I necessarily would like use a lot, and it’s not something I think that has maybe like super broad appeal, but the amount of work that clearly went into this is incredible. [00:59:42] And I think that, um, like taking this very classic application and modernizing it, but also keeping that like nostalgic look, um, is, is fucking badass. And, and, uh, I just, I’m really impressed with every aspect of this. Like, just all the work that went into this, I’m just like so impressed. [01:00:03] Brett: I know some people that will love this. I, I hadn’t seen this, but. [01:00:07] Jeff: There’s, um, there’s also , there’s an amazing looking artist Technica, um, article about the history of HyperCard, and I will put it in the show notes. It looks awesome. I did not realize, I did not realize that Mist was built using HyperCard, which is awesome. [01:00:25] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, it, it’s funny because I remember like before PowerPoint and before like webpages, like that was sort of my introduction to how you could do things like that and, and, and, you know, link multiple things together. And like, I, I, my theory has always been that I think the reason that the web made so much sense to me as young as I was when I got into it was because I had spent hours and hours and hours in elementary school with hyper. [01:00:54] Jeff: Hmm. [01:00:54] Christina: Um, and, and so many of the paradigms made sense because they all came from the same place, right? Like, it all came from like many of the same, uh, things. You know, obviously like what, what, um, uh, Tim Burners Lee was doing with the worldwide web and building on, you know, like, like, you know, uh, high protect markup language and all that stuff like that was like inspired by many of the same, um, things that were happening when HyperCard and some other stuff was, was happening. [01:01:20] So it’s, it’s, uh, uh, that’s always been my personal theory. Um, also, you’ll appreciate this, uh, breadth that if you wanna build the documentation, it requires multi markdown. So, um, so he uses multi [01:01:34] Brett: Oh, multi markdown. [01:01:36] Christina: know. I agree. And I mean, that’s my favorite flavor. So the, the whole thing, I think, uh, it’s, um, anyway, it, I think it’s really, really, I just thought this was incredible. [01:01:46] I think this is just like a clearly, like a big labor of love and like an ice achievement. So just wanted to get that shot. [01:01:52] Jeff: That’s really cool. Um, I am going to set up what I’m, uh, what I’m gratitu uh, without saying what it is at first. Um, cause I think we’ve already done it, but I have all of the, all of these audio clips. From years of doing interviews and, um, I also, for years of my life, always kept like a dictaphone with me. [01:02:13] And so I would just record conversations with friends or road trips or whatever. And I’ve had this, this audio forever and I have not known what to do with it, even though I really wanted to share some of it. And I recently decided that I would crack open headliner and, uh, make some like audiograms out of this stuff that I have. [01:02:34] So an example is last week I was talking about, uh, an interview I did with Fugazi and Minor threats, Ian mackay. And he, he emphasized that he is a, in fact, a punk rock motherfucker. Um, I made a little audiogram out of that and it was delightful. And I’m gonna make one today out of a, out of the clip with a interview I did with Wallace Sean Inconceivable of [01:03:01] Christina: I love [01:03:01] Brett: Yeah. [01:03:02] Jeff: and many other things. [01:03:03] And I, I asked him, Yeah, he put a, um, my dinner with Andre, all of that. He put a book of essays out. He’s a socialist. He put a book of essays out and I was working at a magazine and I, I interviewed him for a podcast and I asked him, cuz he’s kind of an Upper West side, you know, liberal elite type of guy. [01:03:22] Um, and I, and I, and he, he really believes in, you know, socialism in such a way that, like a class war feels inevitable. And so I said, So what happens? The class war, uh, comes, they’re knocking at your door with the pitchforks and the torches. They break it open and what do you say? And he said, Um, Well, I would make a case for myself, but in the end I wouldn’t think it the greatest tragedy if they were to kill me. So I have all these things and I realize they lend themselves so well to these little headliner, um, audiograms. And what’s cool about that is it feels like I sat on these little audio clips for years not knowing what to do with them. And it’s just because the way I wanted to use them didn’t exist yet. [01:04:10] And now I feel like there is a way to use them, albeit very time consuming if you wanna do it well. Um, but it’s, it’s something I’ll be playing with all week, including our own headliner bits. [01:04:21] Brett: So is headliner to the pick. [01:04:23] Jeff: So headliners the pick. And for anybody that doesn’t know it’s a service that, you know, if you’ve ever been scrolling through Twitter and a podcast you love has a little clip with a wave form going and, and uh, and uh, subtitles. [01:04:37] Um, and it’s just an entertaining little clip. That’s the kind of thing that Headliner does beautifully. That said, working on them to really make the transcript match the exact appearance of the words and that kinda stuff makes me realize that we’ve gotta be just a few years away from somehow I make these with a markdown document just to like, bring in last week’s pick deck set Cause it does feel like it’s, it’s highly, it’s highly dependent on this interactive, um, kind of design that is very well done for what it’s trying to do, but also feels somehow very, um, uh, not of its time. So [01:05:19] Brett: Nice. [01:05:19] Jeff: that’s it. Get some sleep friends. [01:05:22] Christina: Get some sleep towels. [01:05:23] intro-outro: The system.

Christina tells the epic tale of Taylor Swift, from early days to the middle of the night. Sponsor Meet Mindbloom. When it comes to mental health, sometimes you need something more to achieve a real and lasting breakthrough. Maybe it’s time to check out a guided ketamine therapy program — Mindbloom can help. After only 2 sessions, 87% of Mindbloom clients reported improvements in depression, and 85% reported improvements in anxiety. Right now, Mindbloom is offering Overtired listeners $100 off your first six-session program when you sign up at mindbloom.com/overtired and use promo code overtired at checkout. NordVPN It’s the price of a cup of coffee every month, a small price to pay for premium cyber-security and access to a vast amount of entertaining content from all over the world. Grab your EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal by going to nordvpn.com/overtired. Show Links Taylor Swift — Midnights, Rolling Stone Grapptitude TextBuddy/Boop Deckset Christina’s livestream with the Charm team VHS Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jeffreyguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript The One About Taylor Swift [00:00:00] Christina: I don’t want [00:00:01] Jeffrey: Anybody else mean that? [00:00:04] Christina: I touch myself. [00:00:06] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. [00:00:06] Brett: Mm-hmm. [00:00:07] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:11] Jeffrey: Hi everybody. This is the Overtired podcast. I’m here today with Brett Terpstra. Say hello, Brett [00:00:19] Brett: Hello, Jeff? [00:00:20] Jeffrey: I love, I love commanding hellos. [00:00:22] Brett: Wait. Hello, Brett? [00:00:24] Jeffrey: Christina Warren. Say hello [00:00:25] Christina: Hello. [00:00:26] Jeffrey: and our special guest, Taylor Swift. She’s not really here, but she’s here in spirit. We’ll talk all about her. Just get ready, start stretching. [00:00:35] Um, it’s good to see you all. I haven’t seen you. I guess it was only a week I took off, but it feels like longer for some reason. [00:00:41] Brett: Yeah. We miss you. [00:00:43] Jeffrey: Thank you. Glad [00:00:44] Brett: Yeah. You, you’ve had, uh, you’ve had some tooth trauma. What’s going on with your mouth? [00:00:49] Jeffrey: Mm, everybody loves to hear people’s dental problems. Uh, so I went into the, I had this horrible pain and I had it for a little while and I went into the dentist cause I was about to leave town, so some friends and I, we rented a little island with a cabin on it. And, uh, and I was gonna be living on an island in northern Minnesota for like four days, but I had all this tooth pain. [00:01:10] So I went in just to see if there was anything to be done or take a look at it. And they were like, Oh, this tooth is is like dying. It’s, and they, it’s called resorption. And the idea is basically that my, my body has targeted that tooth, uh, and is sort of, Sending all of its negative dark energy to the tooth, and the tooth was just like decaying from the inside. [00:01:32] It was just a really bizarre thing. I’ve never heard of it. And they’re like, This has to get pulled. And so just yesterday I went and got it pulled. I have very long roots. I’ve had this problem since I was a kid. When I get my teeth pulled, I already know what they’re gonna say before they say it, which is like, okay, this is gonna take a little extra time. [00:01:50] Right? And I may have to take this off in not two pieces, but four to six pieces, which is what happened yesterday. I was in the dentist chair for three hours. I was in it so long that other staff were coming in to say goodnight to the dentist [00:02:06] Christina: Oh my God. [00:02:08] Jeffrey: And there were definitely points where he. Exactly. Sure he was gonna be able to get everything out. [00:02:15] Um, but he remained, uh, comfortably confident, unlike some dentists who are just, I think, ridiculously confident. Um, and we got that. We got that thing out and now I have this like, massive hole and I hate, it’s a gap between my teeth. It was a big molar. And, uh, and I also now can say that pretty soon, six of my eight molars will be either crowns or in this case an implant. [00:02:41] So I’m, I’m not gonna em off one by one. [00:02:43] Brett: Wow. My, uh, my dentist looks for any, excuse not to use Novocaine. She’s always. [00:02:50] Jeffrey: I remember [00:02:51] Brett: always like, No, this will be e I barely have to drill it all. [00:02:54] Jeffrey: Oh [00:02:54] Brett: just gonna just, just, just hold on. It won’t take long. And I always end up crying because I get like super tense and then the pain starts, and then I’m just like, this combination of expectation and actual tooth pain, like a tear always runs on my cheek. [00:03:11] And I’m, I told her last time, I’m like, If you make me cry, I’m fucking switching dentists. And, and she still insisted that this one won’t require Novocaine. It’ll just be a quick, quick drill. [00:03:25] Jeffrey: so I’ve had a version of that where my dentist will say, I’m pretty sure you don’t need it. Let’s, How do you feel about moving forward? And if you think like you can’t handle it, we stop immediately and just start, get out the needles. But like the idea that she’s kind of suggesting that the correct [00:03:42] Brett: despite my protestation, she’s suggesting that I don’t need it. [00:03:47] Jeffrey: that’s not how you help people. [00:03:48] Brett: That’s [00:03:49] Jeffrey: That is actually how a lot of people help people, but it’s not how you should help people. Swears [00:03:52] Brett: So I swore in front of her, I said the FBO in front of her. I think I mentioned that on a show previously. Um, and, and she like called me out on it and, and it was like, don’t use that language in front of next visit. She leans over it, she’s telling a story to her, like, uh, her hygienist and she leans over and whispers something, fucking, something, uh, as if like in a solidarity kind of thing. [00:04:22] Christina: Hmm. [00:04:22] Brett: Like, she knows I’m down with it. So she’s like, eh, I’m gonna swear under my breath, um, to make me feel okay. I guess. I don’t know. But I mean, that’s the thing about swearing is it is a, it’s a social construct. Like you swear to test the waters and if someone’s okay with it, you swear within reason. If you swear too much, you’ve broken the social bond. [00:04:46] Um, like there’s, there’s a way to overdo it, even if someone’s comfortable with swearing, like you can still swear too much for that person. So it’s a constant give and take to figure out like how much swearing is okay, what words are okay. And if you don’t respond to it properly, you break the social contract. [00:05:05] And, and like you can really, you can really screw things up, . But I think she, I think she was making an effort to, to be social, like. [00:05:15] Christina: One of my favorite experiences ever. So at Gizmoto, one of the, when I moved from Mashable to Gizmoto, one of the biggest changes was obviously the amount of swearing you could do. Uh, I think Mashable now, they curse a little bit more, but at the time, [00:05:28] Brett: In writing. [00:05:30] Christina: in writing, I was the only person who would ever like successfully, I think other than maybe if there was a direct quote, um, for something. [00:05:38] I was like one of the only people who would ever. Been able to curse, like, at least with the fbam, like in like a, a, a lead sentence. Right? And, and I [00:05:48] Brett: but not a headline. [00:05:49] Christina: I almost got in, in a headline. It was approved as a headline and then it was changed at the last minute. And I was mad because the headline was so good. [00:05:55] It was when the Ashley Madison hack happened and I said, Ashley Madison is fucked, was my headline. And that, and that remained the, um, the slug and it was approved. I, I, I won approval for it. And then the, the [00:06:07] Jeffrey: a good seo. [00:06:08] Christina: it? Well, it, it would’ve, well actually this was the argument for why Chris Taylor, who I love, and he’s, he’s great. [00:06:15] Ended up changing it to Ashley Madison is so screwed. And he was probably right to do so. Um, it did better on Facebook. Um, and it got like shitloads of Facebook, um, uh, traffic and it. [00:06:26] Brett: you AB test this? Do [00:06:27] Christina: No, No, but, but, but Facebook, and I don’t know if they still do, but at the time they would not like, promote things that had like cursing and headlines. [00:06:35] Right? So in terms of, of, so, so in terms of like, if we share to our page the way it’s gonna be re-shared and, and other stuff like was, was, would be impacted. So it was ultimately probably the right move. But I was, was up, I mean, there was a part of me that died inside cuz I was like, God, it was such a good headline. [00:06:55] Um, and, and I, I successfully won it. So I go over to Gizmodo, Gizmodo, the Curse all the time is not a big deal. And my first month there, um, uh, Alex Dickinson, our deputy editor, great guy, um, sends out an email who ba basically saying, Look, You’re cussing too much. Like it’s fine. We, we wanna do it, but it’s losing its value because you’re, you’re doing it so much that it’s like, it, it’s, it’s, it’s losing its edge and it’s just coming across as just kind of crunchy. [00:07:27] And I was like, Man, I’m at the right place because this is the sort of emails we get, which is like, not don’t curse, just, you know, save it and use it better. Um, but, [00:07:39] Jeffrey: That’s just like, that’s interesting. Cause that’s just like, you know, Brent, what you were describing in social situations [00:07:45] Christina: exactly. No, you nailed [00:07:47] Jeffrey: can test the waters, but then it’s gonna get to the point where you’re like, Oh, okay. There’s a threshold I didn’t see coming. [00:07:52] Christina: Right. And, and, and in this case, the, the threshold wasn’t even so much like, Oh, we think this is socially distasteful. It’s just more like you’re, it’s eye roll inducing and it, and it’s not like, uh, the shock value and things that you think that you’re, you know, achieving aren’t there anymore. [00:08:06] Brett: like I was raised to believe that swearing was a sign of low intelligence. Um, people, people with good vocabularies don’t swear. And as I grew up and like became more literate, I began to realize that swearing absolutely has a place in language. Uh, like it can be very pointed and it can really underscore a sentiment. [00:08:31] I think there is absolutely a, I think a very intelligent, I think some of the most intelligent people know where to put an f bomb in a sentence and, and punctuate it, uh, and make it relatable without making it, uh, obscene. [00:08:48] Jeffrey: When I joined my wife’s family, both my mother-in-law and her grandmother, said privately to her, I don’t normally like it when people swear, but it doesn’t bug me the way Jeff does it And I’ve always thought of that as my skill, but man, sometimes now it with news articles or any kind of article, I always love it when a source gives a great quote with a swear word in it. [00:09:12] Cause like, you never, you never expect that. And, and I don’t mean like, I don’t mean that like dimly or thick, not like thick in the head or anything. I just mean like it can be, it can like take you by surprise, right? Um, except the one, my favorite example of that, I keep some very short soundbites of. Have done over the years, and one of the most bizarre, like obvious quotes I ever had was from Ian Mackay of Fugazi and Minor threat. [00:09:39] He says to me in the middle of the interview, I mean, I’m a fucking punk rocker . And I was like, Yeah, okay. I know . Like that’s your whole fucking deal. So I saved that to just play for people every once in a while. I’m a fucking punk rocker. [00:09:54] Brett: So, uh, sh sh Should we do a mental health corner? Mental Heatlh Corner [00:09:58] Christina: Very briefly, because we have to talk about Taylor Swift. This is very [00:10:00] Brett: We do. This is a Taylor Swift episode. Yeah. I’ll try to keep, I’ll try to keep mine short. So I, I found the definition of it’s Cyclothymia, or it’s C y c l o t h y m i a. Um, I dunno exactly how it’s pronounced, but the definition of it is, um, uh, hypomanic episodes alternating with light depression and, uh, without rapid cycling, uh, without a lot of stability in. [00:10:35] And that I, I think, I think that’s what I actually have instead of bipolar too. I think I have psycho imia emia. Um, I have not yet discussed it with my psychiatrist. Um, my therapist thought, Yeah, that makes perfect sense, but he, he’s not licensed to diagnose that kind of thing. So, um, I have yet to bring it up with my therapist, but man, I am absolutely realizing I don’t have an in between, between depression and mania. [00:11:11] Um, and I’m going through this thing, right? Like I have this very deep conviction right now. I will ultimately hurt everybody I love. And, uh, this, this feeling that when people say, I love you, like in my head I’m like, That’s awesome. I love you too, but you’re gonna get fucked on this deal. Um, that I will eventually hurt. [00:11:39] And, and like some people in my life have been very forgiving, uh, over time. But also I walked out of a, a marriage and I walked out of friendships and I get bored and I hurt people or I fuck up and I hurt people. And man, when I’m, when I’m not, man, and shit really weighs on my mind. [00:12:01] Jeffrey: Hmm. [00:12:01] Brett: You start to wonder like, would would the people I love be better off if I’d never been born? [00:12:06] I am not suicidal. Do not take this as me being [00:12:09] Jeffrey: we were heading there. Yeah. Right. And that’s not true. [00:12:12] Brett: But it, but it is what weighs on my mind in times like this. [00:12:17] Jeffrey: It’s a question that can only be answered falsely by you. [00:12:20] Christina: Yes. No, you’re right, you’re right though. That that’s the thing is, is that it is one of those things where, cuz I think a lot of us have that question a lot of times and, and it’s, and it’s upsetting. I’m sorry that you’re having it now. And I think that it is worth like, weighing on like those things that we do that like nag at us and like this is, um, like certainly these are the things that keep me up at night, right? [00:12:44] Like the self-loathing parts, like the things where you like question every decision you’ve ever made and, and decisions you haven’t made and, and, and how you are. And that can be really, um, debilitating. But to, to Jeff’s point, like it is one of those things where, You will, we can only answer it falsely, but the answer is definitively no. [00:13:07] People would not be better off like you provide value. Like there, look, there are some people, I’m not gonna like pretend like that there aren’t situations where, there are some people where I look back in my life and I’m like, I would’ve been better off if I had not known them and if I had not met them and if they had not been in my life. [00:13:21] Right? That’s just, that’s accurate I think for everyone. But like, that’s, that’s not the case with you, right? Like even the worst things you’ve ever done to people, like the, the good and other things that you’ve done with them outweigh that. And uh, you know, and I think that, that, like my, my father had like a pretty complicated relationship with his mother, and she’s one of those people where I think back, I’m like, nothing to value would’ve been lost if she was, if she had never been in my life, if I’d never known her or anything, like, nothing to value would be lost. [00:13:52] I’m not gonna say my life would’ve been better, but zero would’ve been lost. But I think that even him is debilitating and is like, Oppressive and as hard as that relationship was, um, in a lot of ways, if you were to ask him, would my life have been better off, if she had never been around, he would’ve a, he would, he would respond, No. [00:14:13] Right. Like he still got something there, which like, as an outsider, it’s hard for me to grab that. I’m like, Man, I would be like, if you could do, have a doover and have her not exist. Sure. [00:14:23] Brett: If this is still relevant in a future week, I will revisit it and, and offer my rebuttal. But we have Taylor to get you, so I’m gonna accept what you’re saying. Thank you. Thank you for your feedback. [00:14:37] Jeffrey: Um, my mental health check in is that, I, um, I went away with two other couples, my wife and I and two other couples. Their kids, our kids. Our kids have all been friends forever. It’s how we know each other as adults. And it is a, a relationship that has been really just getting tighter and tighter by the years. [00:15:00] We’ve done different vacations together. This time we rented an island, uh, in northern Minnesota with like the gnarliest, most delightful disaster of a pontoon boat ever, which had the name Leisure Island. Leisure Island, if you’re classy. Um, and you know, I just have this memory cuz I actually, the first night we were all there together, I had to bow out cause I had taken Tylenol with codeine from my tooth, which it turns out doesn’t play with lithium. [00:15:26] And so I was super nauseous and ultimately it was just like in there throwing up. It was awful. But from the other room, I could hear. All of these people, 10 people ranging from eighth grade to, I suppose I’m the oldest, I think. Um, but they’re all just like having a blast. And it was that kind of easy fun that you can have with people you’ve known for a while. [00:15:48] Um, and it was so cool cause all the kids were part of it, whatever, like, it just felt good. I don’t have a lot of friendships that are like newish. Um, and these are, you know, within 15 years or so. And, um, and it was just like really good for me to be in that space with those people. And fortunately I wasn’t throwing up the rest of the trip. [00:16:11] Um, just waking up onto a porch with, you know, four friends who are having coffee and staring at the lake and just talking about whatever comes. [00:16:20] Brett: That sounds nice. [00:16:21] Christina: Yeah. [00:16:22] Jeffrey: Without my wife, I don’t know that these things would happen to me. , she does a really good job of finding the good things and keeping them close, um, whereas I’m more likely to just wanna hide. [00:16:35] Uh, but it’s just lovely and wonderful. So that was, that was super nice. [00:16:39] Brett: That’s beautiful. [00:16:41] Jeffrey: Christina, how you doing? [00:16:42] Christina: I’m good. I’m, um, so I’m gonna be in San Francisco next week as usual. Work is often tied at times tied to my mental health because that’s me. Um, which is other stuff I probably need to, to deal with. But yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m doing well. Um, I, uh, if we have time to get into it, I’ve been pissing some people off on Twitter, which is always fun for me, so, [00:17:08] Jeffrey: just don’t worry. It’s all gonna be wiped clean in a couple days when Elon’s officially in charge. Um, actually he’s been firing people left and right, hasn’t he? [00:17:15] Christina: yeah, yeah, [00:17:16] Brett: is the core of what, what Christina piss people [00:17:19] Christina: yeah. That, that, that’s the core of what pissed them off because cuz I, I was. Basically like good riddens to, uh, Paraag Agarwal, the Twitter ceo, uh, who I think did a pretty shitty job. Um, uh, a large, uh, contingent of a, of a subcontinent. Did not agree with that. And, uh, and uh, yeah. So that was fun. Taylor Swift: A History (Part 1) [00:17:42] Jeffrey: Okay. Christina Taylor Swift has a new album, so much more than that to talk about in a way. Cuz she’s just like, talk about constellations. There’s like extra songs over here and there’s a video and there’s, you know, Um, Alright. I, I know that Brett and I had homework, but I think, and I want to hear from Brett. [00:18:03] I have nothing interesting to offer that is original of my own. I really enjoyed listening to the album. I listened to it a few times over and, uh, [00:18:13] Christina: Thank you. Thank you for doing the homework. Brett did not put that much into it, and he never does. So I, this is one of the reasons I’m [00:18:19] Brett: I gave it a full [00:18:20] Christina: I knew you did and I appreciate that. That is, [00:18:23] Brett: and I watched the music videos, [00:18:25] Christina: which again, I appreciate and, and I wanna be clear. That’s even more than I expect from you. [00:18:30] But to see this is why I love having Jeff on because he like genuinely goes like above and beyond and really gets into it. And here’s the thing. I love that you did it, Brett, but I know that you hated every second of it and that you didn’t wanna do it. Whereas like Jeff like was excited by like the [00:18:45] Brett: I did it thoughtfully. I did it and I thought, How do I feel about this? And I came to, I came to conclusions and I, and that, and then I would be like, Let’s listen to one more song and, and then see how I feel about it. And, and I did that and I got all the way through it and I did my homework. And you, you, you, I’m not an extra credit guy, I guess. [00:19:06] Jeffrey: so Christina, let’s like, let’s set the, let’s set this up a little bit. First of all, what number album is this for Taylor Swift? Number 10. First album came out. [00:19:16] Christina: is, uh, 2006. [00:19:18] Jeffrey: Okay, [00:19:19] Christina: And, and, and so it’s, it’s her 10th album, but she also did two full rerecord. So it’s, it, it could be number 12 if, if you, you know, wanted to count those. Um, but it, it’s the, the 10th original album. [00:19:32] Jeffrey: And will you tell me just briefly what is the deal with the rerecord? [00:19:36] Christina: So she, Okay, so, um, she was signed to a record label called Big Machine, um, Records in 2006, and they owned her masters, which is the case with almost all artists. She had wanted to get to the point where she could own her own masters and buy her old ones back, but they had basically been like, You will have to do a new album for us for. [00:19:58] Master recording you wanna get back. Basically like tying her into an even longer, um, uh, contract with them. And, and she, I guess, had some disputes with them about some other things. So when she left Big Machine and went to Republic, which is part of Universal in 2017, she, I think she did that in part because Scott Boesche, the owner of the label, had kind of made it clear that he wasn’t super interested in continuing to own the record label. [00:20:23] Kind of wanted to cash out what he wound up doing. I think they had, she claims that they made efforts to buy the, the, um, Masters back and that they were, uh, not allowed. Uh, they dispute this, it’s unclear, but he wound up selling. The company and by extent all of her masters to Scooter Bran. And Scooter Bran was someone that she’d previously had negative interactions with. [00:20:47] He’s, he’s a talent manager. Uh, he like most famous for discovering, uh, Justin Bieber. He also managed, uh, manages, uh, um, Ariana Grande and, and Demi Lovato and some others. But he and Taylor had, had, uh, past, uh, negative experiences. She did not want him to own her work. He was, frankly pretty dickish about it. [00:21:07] And kind of like once he, he bought, you know, the label and the whole reason you would buy Big Machine. To be very clear, the only reason you buy big machine is for the Taylor Swift catalog. Like that’s where all the value is. So, cuz there are some other artists that are signed there, but they’re incidental. [00:21:21] The whole reason you buy the label is, is for her. [00:21:24] Jeffrey: and so she was on, She was on big machine from day one. [00:21:27] Christina: Yes. Like Scott Rotta signed her. So like, she was 16, I think she was 15 when she maybe got the record deal. And, and, and he signed her. And to be clear, like he put a lot into her and made bets too. But she also very quickly took off and, and, and made the label right, because it was this indie label. And she also, in fairness to her, I mean like they, they helped each other. [00:21:47] I think they’re acrimony. It’s, it’s a big part of some of the songs, um, on, uh, uh, folklore. Um, and, and there are a couple of songs on midnights that allude to it too, but it’s clearly a very big, um, uh, you know, breakup for her, probably the biggest in her life. Um, but then where she felt betrayed was that not only was it the, the label sold, but she knew was going to happen, but it was sold to this person that she did not respect and that she did not like, who then started gloating about, Oh, I own this stuff now. [00:22:17] The problem was, and the, and this is where the rerecord stuff comes, Because she’s the songwriter on every single one of her songs. She’s the co-writer in some cases, but she is the songwriter on every single one of her songs. They cannot license the originals unless she also gives her her permission because she does, she, they, they own the master recording, but they don’t own the songwriter credits. [00:22:39] Um, and, and, and you need both if you wanna, wanna license something for mechanical use for film or television or advertisements, which is again, the reason why you would buy the back catalog wouldn’t just be for the royalties and streaming. No, she’s famously not licensed her music much. Um, but if someone else owns it, like they could license it, however, she has to still give her permission. [00:23:01] So what she did is she figured out, Oh, if I rerecord. The music then that will take away from the profit they can make off of streaming. And I can license the rerecord, but not license the originals. So basically, you know, in, in, in effect cutting down how much money they could get from it. Scooter bronze still wound up, he wound up flipping the catalog and sold it for like 300 and something million, um, to, uh, Abigail Disney, I think. [00:23:31] Um, and, and they’d had some, and they’d had some talks, uh, Taylor did about maybe being involved with them, but Scooter still was going to. Receive profits after the fact. And, and that was kind of a deal breaker for her. So she has proceeded with saying, Okay, I’m going to rerecord every album I made. And she’s done it in a very exacting process where, like the first two, anyway, like there are some minor differences, but they are basically sound alike. [00:23:58] And, and it’s, it’s been a very meticulous process. And she’s, you know, I think Prince and others have done similar things, but she’s certainly the first of this modern era to do this. And, and the whole reason was basically to, because she’s a petty bitch, which is again, a, a, a theme very common on midnights. [00:24:15] Jeffrey: Hmm. What do you mean? Why? Why? Cuz she’s a petty bitch. Oh, you’re saying, you’re saying this is a, This is a high five moment. [00:24:23] Christina: Yes. No, I’m, I’m saying, I’m, I’m saying like, I’m saying that No, no, I’m saying like, this is like a, I’m also saying, uh, this is like a core part for personality. Um, I want you to do the ad read. We’re gonna hear, uh, Jeff’s response, Jeff’s thoughts on, uh, midnights after, uh, our, our break from our sponsors. [00:24:44] Brett: Add time. Sponser: MindBloom [00:24:45] Christina: time. This episode is brought to you by Mind Bloom. You just need to take better care of yourself. Is not a response to mental health struggles. You know all too well you live with them. That’s also a tailor reference. Incidentally, sometimes you need something more to achieve a real and lasting breakthrough. [00:25:05] Maybe it’s time you check out a guided ketamine therapy program. Mind Bloom can help Mind. Bloom is the leader in at home ketamine therapy, offering a combination of science backed medicine with clinician and guide support for people looking to improve their mental health and wellbeing. Mind. Bloom connects patients to licensed psychiatric clinicians to help them achieve better outcomes with lower costs, greater convenience, and an artfully crafted experience. [00:25:32] To begin, Take Mind Bloom’s online assessment to determine if Mind Bloom is right for you. And if you’re approved, you’ll schedule a video consult with a licensed clinician where you’ll discuss your goals and expectations for mental health treatment. Mind. Blum will send you a kid in the mail complete with medicine treatment materials, and tips for getting the most out of your experience. [00:25:53] After only two sessions, 87% of mind bloom clients reported improvements in depression and 85% reported improvements and anxiety. It’s time to enter the next chapter in mental health and wellbeing. Let mind bloom guide you right now Mind Bloom is offering our listeners a hundred dollars off your first six session program when you sign up@mindbloom.com slash Overtired and use the promo code Overtired at checkout. [00:26:19] So go to mind blum.com/ Overtired and use the promo code Overtired for a hundred dollars off your first six session program today. That’s mind blob.com/ Overtired. Promo code Overtired. [00:26:32] Brett: I’m super bummed that mind Bloom isn’t available in Minnesota. Like I, I wanted to try this out and it was not available to me. [00:26:42] Christina: Yeah, that’s the one thing you need to check. Make sure it’s in your area. But if it is, this is like, I think a great option for a lot of people who have been failed by regular medication and, and normal therapies. [00:26:53] Brett: You will find out if it’s available very quickly when you@amindbloom.com slash Overtired. Um, I’m gonna get in trouble for this next ad read. I, uh, I, I, I tweaked it a little bit. [00:27:06] Christina: Okay. Sponsor: NordVPN [00:27:06] Brett: you missing out on your favorite show because it’s not available in your region trying to keep your private time private? [00:27:13] Well, let me introduce Nor dpn, if you’re into Norwegian blood sports the way I am, you’ve definitely dealt with the frustration of not being able to stream them here in the us. 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[00:28:18] A small price to pay for premium cybersecurity and access to a vast amount of entertaining content from all over the world. Note may not include blood sports. Grab your exclusive Nord VPN deal by going to nord vpn.com/overti to get a huge discount off your Nor VPN plan, plus four months for free. It’s completely risk free with nords 30 day money back guarantee. [00:28:43] That’s N O G vpn.com/ Overtired. Go grab this amazing deal and start surfing securely@norvpn.com slash Overtired. Taylor Swift: A History (Part 2) [00:28:56] Jeffrey: Bang, Splat. P Norwegian blood sports. Uh, one thing when people say the cost of a cup of coffee, one at a one at a time. What? What’s your dollar amount? Christina. [00:29:10] Christina: like five bucks. [00:29:11] Jeffrey: Okay, Brett. [00:29:13] Brett: 2 2 75. [00:29:15] Jeffrey: You’re doing that, you’re doing that, uh, diner coffee where they give you an early riser with no coffee, but then you pay two 50 for the coffee. [00:29:22] Brett: I’m doing a double espresso in Winona, Minnesota, cost me 2 [00:29:26] Jeffrey: seven. I mean, cuz I like, as my former colleague who was female, liked to say of me, I like those girly drinks. Um, [00:29:35] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say at this point, I don’t even know what, because I, I don’t go to Starbucks all that often, so I don’t even like know what their pricing is. It’s probably gone up though, as everything has, and if you’re gonna get a larger size coffee Yeah. Probably is more than five at this point. [00:29:48] Jeffrey: yeah. [00:29:48] Brett: How much is aio? [00:29:50] Jeffrey: What’s a, what’s a dope? [00:29:53] Brett: That’s what Starbucks calls a double espresso. [00:29:57] Jeffrey: I thought that was a [00:29:58] Brett: Yeah. [00:29:58] Christina: that, so that’s so, so that’s cheaper than like the, the fancy drinks with the syrups and all the other stuff, But it’s still [00:30:05] Brett: saying for me that’s a cup of coffee [00:30:07] Christina: Yeah, that’s, but that’s, that, that’s, that’s not 2 75 though, at Starbucks. [00:30:12] Jeffrey: Now I don’t, if you don’t mind, I have a few more questions before even I have anything to say. Um, and, and I’m sorry that these are such rudimentary questions, but I bet there are people out there that share them with me. [00:30:25] Christina: Oh, I’m sure there are. [00:30:27] Jeffrey: you’ve just sort of bracketed, um, the period of her career where she’s with big machines, Right. [00:30:34] And that label [00:30:36] Christina: that was, that was two thou, That was 2006 to 2017. [00:30:39] Jeffrey: and what’s the first record outside of big machines? Is it a re-recording or is it a new [00:30:44] Christina: No, no, her, her first one was Lover, which came out in, in 2019, um, and is sonically similar to midnights, although I think midnights it improves on it, which that was, that was the first one on Universal. And that was in 2019. And then in 2020 she dropped, um, uh, a folklore, uh, during the pandemic when no one was expecting it. [00:31:04] And it took everything by storm. Then she dropped, um, uh, evermore as like the follow up, um, that, that, that she did basically between the, the times that they were released, like three months later. Then in, uh, I think in March of 2021, she did Fearless, which was her second album, but the first one to win album of the year at the Grammy’s. [00:31:26] Uh, she now has three of those. Um, and so that came out, So that was originally released in 2008. The re-release was in, in March, I think of, of 2021. And then in November of 2021, um, she did the Rerecord of Red, which was her, um, uh, Fourth album, um, and, uh, and, and the one that fans have a, a really strong liking to. [00:31:50] Uh, [00:31:51] Brett: I’m a huge fan of, I’m a [00:31:52] Christina: yeah, Red, Red is my favorite album. Red is my favorite Taylor album. Like, uh, so, so the, the chronology is, uh, debut Taylor Swift by Taylor Swift, Um, Fearless Speak now, which, uh, she wrote entirely herself. That’s gonna be the next rerecord. Uh, based on the, uh, various Easter eggs she put in, uh, one of the music videos that came out. [00:32:12] Um, so every song On, on Speak now was, is written only by her. And that was sort of a response to people who claim the only reason she won the Grammy Fur album of the year was because other people wrote her work for her. And she was basically like, even though she’d written all the [00:32:26] Brett: patently untrue as, as much as I might not be a die hard fan. That’s patently untrue. I know [00:32:32] Christina: It absolutely, it absolutely is. [00:32:33] But she was 19 years old and so at the time, she was the youngest album of the year when her, Billy Eilish has now surpassed that. But uh, at the time she was the youngest. And so there were a lot of people who were literally saying, The only reason you are anything is cuz you’re, you’re a puppet, basically. [00:32:47] So she wrote an album called Speak Now, which was basically telling them Go fuck yourselves. Then she did Red, which is my favorite. Then she did 1989, which is like the one when she switched from country music to full on pop. And that was like her crossover album. That it very good, like I think it one of the, probably one of the most defining albums of the, of the 2010s. [00:33:07] Um, uh, I think by, by any estimation, just in terms of cultural influence. Then she did reputation in 2017 and then Lover in 2019. And then, uh, yeah, we’re, we’re caught up. [00:33:19] Jeffrey: And then at what point in this whole thing is the, So for me, I knew of Taylor Swift when this happened, but when the whole Kanye thing happened, [00:33:29] Christina: That was, that was in 2009. [00:33:31] Jeffrey: That was 2009. Okay. [00:33:33] Christina: 2009. So, so, so the song that that was about was, You Belong With Me, which was off of her second album, Fearless. So this happens in, So the album, um, comes out in like November, 2008, but then that happened in August of 2009. Uh, she went on to then, uh, win the Grammy the following January. [00:33:54] Um, but by that time she’d already released her third album, Speak Now. Um, no, I, I’ve got that timing wrong. She’d already won the Grammy, I guess, for, for Album of the Year by in 2009. Okay. Um, or has she? I don’t know. I don’t remember. Anyway, so the Kanye thing happened in 2009, regardless, that happened in, in August of 2009 at the VMAs. [00:34:16] And that was the first thing that for a lot of people, Got her on their attention because she did that. And then she did, um, uh, Saturday Night Live, um, where she hosted and performed. And for a lot of people who didn’t listen to, to the radio or weren’t aware of things like that, was the president calling her a jackass was the thing that kind of like set her off and into becoming like, go, being like [00:34:40] Jeffrey: that’s [00:34:41] Christina: a best selling country artist into being like this, this much bigger like pop culture figure. [00:34:47] Brett: I did it. So I still wanted to just randomly interrupt your answer with an I’m a finish, I’m gonna let you finish line, and I didn’t. I held it in adhd, impulse [00:34:57] Jeffrey: I mean, did you hold it in though? In the end? What? [00:35:00] Christina: No, no, you did. [00:35:01] Brett: I waited. I waited. I waited for her to take a breath, and then I did it. And [00:35:05] Christina: No, you did. And I was done with my thought. I’m proud of [00:35:07] Brett: I feel it. [00:35:08] I feel it in my bones. I was holding that in [00:35:11] Jeffrey: you’ve come a long way. Thank you, Okay. So this is great. So that brings us, I mean, what what’s interesting to me and what’s helpful to me about what you’ve just shared is that it sounds like she’s still in the process of doing these rerecord, right? [00:35:25] Christina: Yes, Yes. She’s only done two of them, so she has a bunch more to do, [00:35:29] Jeffrey: it is stunning to me. So Def Leppard did that, but they did it like 30 years later, right? It’s stunning to me to think of, um, a pop star managing. One, all the bullshit around being a pop pop star, right? Um, two, just making new albums that are good or that you’re proud of. And three, in the midst of all of that, revisiting old work in the most intensive way and rerecording it like that is, that is like an incredible swirl of activity that must be almost a daily part of her life. [00:36:03] Every single bit of that, [00:36:06] Christina: Yeah, no, and, and she’s now started directing her own music videos. Like, so basically since, Yeah, the last, if you look at her career, like the last two years were really the last three, I guess, since since Lover, cuz I guess she already maybe started embark. I think she had to wait until a certain point to embark on the rerecord because it had to be five years. [00:36:26] Um, you know, uh, past a, a certain point, um, for, for some of the, the rerecord to start, like there was a, there was a timing thing involved, but like if you look at how prolific she’s been just since 2020, it’s unreal. Cuz again, uh, we’ve had three, so since 2019 we’ve had four actual albums and two rerecord and a bunch of music videos and a 10 minute short film and, yeah. Yeah. [00:36:52] Jeffrey: that’s, Oh, go [00:36:54] Brett: You’re eventually gonna hear my thoughts on midnights, uh, whether this week or later. But, but I just wanna say the music videos from Midnights are a delightful mix of indie filmmaking with high budget effects. Like, they don’t feel, they don’t feel at all produced. They’re just like, all of a sudden there’s this thing that could not ex, you could not do it with practical effects. [00:37:20] Like it’s just happening. And, and I really appreciate, uh, the music videos from midnights. [00:37:27] Christina: Well, I’m No, and I’m glad to hear you say that cuz um, I, I feel the same way. Um, she used to work with Joseph Conn a lot. He did a lot of her videos for, for 1989. And, um, he’s, uh, a, a very famous, kind of like for his direction, style of being, like having really big kind of like boisterous videos and his like really out there productions. [00:37:46] And I feel like she’s kind of taken the best aspects of some of the things he did, but then added more of that indie kind of flavor. I’ll be honest, I’m a huge fan of hers. I didn’t expect her to be a good director and I don’t know why I didn’t. I just, it wasn’t something I thought about her like excelling at, which is stupid because she’s director her whole career. [00:38:05] But that was [00:38:05] Brett: Yeah, for [00:38:06] Christina: that was just, that was just not like a, [00:38:09] Brett: if anything, if, if anything is demonstrated by her meticulous songwriting capabilities, it’s her ability to direct, like it’s, it’s all there. So that makes perfect [00:38:21] Christina: no, no. You’re right. It does. And I don’t know why. And it’s not like I expected her to be bad at it. It just, maybe I just never even thought about it. I think that she’s not a good actress. Um, and, uh, she’s, she’s not. And, uh, not to say that she couldn’t be, I think that she wishes she were, and that she’s casts in some small roles, cuz she’s beautiful, but she’s not a good actress. [00:38:40] Like, that’s not where her talent lies. Um, but she’s an, she’s an excellent director. [00:38:47] Jeffrey: that’s awesome. Okay, so this album, what did it mean to you? You’re the biggest tailored Swift fan I know by far. I know You buy all the, like is it a comic book term I’m using wrong, A variance of the [00:38:59] Christina: Oh yeah. Yeah. [00:39:00] Jeffrey: got some, you got some cassettes, if I’m not [00:39:03] Christina: Oh yeah. I, I got cassettes, I got, I got all the vinyl colors, like, Yeah, no, I, I, I gave, I give her so much money. It’s stupid. She doesn’t need it. Um, [00:39:11] Jeffrey: her patron, you know, uh, what is this record to you? [00:39:17] Christina: I think it’s a really good record and I was, I will, I will be totally honest. My first listen through, I wasn’t sure my, my, my priors here. I think that folklore and evermore are some of the best work she’s ever done. I think that red and the red rerecording, which added a bunch of extra tracks, which were just incredible. [00:39:35] I think red is, is her best work. Um, and, and will probably remain that way. Uh, not to say it’s perfect, like I think like 1989 is like a much like more perfect, pristine, pristine, precise package. But I think red is just like, for me, that’s the one that like hits me and like puts me in the feels. And so those three records having happened, I loved so much and it opened up this side of Taylor that I was not expecting. [00:39:59] Like I’m a huge fan of the national and I never expected. Like the two of them to work together. I’d never expected Bonaire and Taylor to do songs together. I love Bonaire. Cuz in my mind, those are the two different sides of my musical brain. Right? Like, I don’t put those things in the same category. Not that I don’t love Taylor, it’s just I don’t, I don’t put those in the same thing. [00:40:20] And, and when they did and it worked so well. I love that. So, so go on. [00:40:26] Brett: You, but you do put Bono Air, the National, and Lana Delray kind of in the same category. Right. So this feels like a tendency from Taylor Swift to collaborate with this particular genre of [00:40:40] Christina: Now it is. Now it is. But this, but up until 2020 it hadn’t been right. Like she collaborated with not those people. Right? Like I think that, um, uh, I think there was probably fear in her part, and she’s even expressed this, like she didn’t know if those people would want to collaborate with her, which, which seems ridiculous, but, but, you know, but you know, I think that, um, honestly, I’ll say this, I think up until, uh, a folklore, there was still a very strong part of like the music snob, kind of music critic part who dismissed her no matter how. [00:41:15] Like you didn’t Brett because you agreed like you knew how good her songwriting was. But there were a lot of people who completely dismissed her and didn’t see her as an artist and was just like, she’s just this thing. Then those albums come out and all of a sudden people wake up and they go, Oh, holy shit. [00:41:29] You are an artist. And, and so what’s, and you can work with these very celebrated, you know, musicians and songwriters as you should. Um, So for me it was a little bit jarring for her to go much more directionally similar to Lover, which is not my favorite album of hers. Some of the tracks on it are like, I think Cruel Summer is a great track. [00:41:50] I think The Archer is fantastic, but that’s not my favorite album of hers at all. And sonically Midnights is, is similar. So my first, listen, I was a little bit like, okay, well it’s good to have Pop Taylor back. You know? It was, it was, you know, we had a nice sojourn, but this is, this, I, I guess it’s good to hear it again. [00:42:08] Then I listen to the record. . And on the second, listen, I started like hearing more things and I started going, Okay, I think this is more interesting than I gave it credit for. And now I think the more I’ve listened to it, and this could change, you know, in, in, in six months, um, I think it, it’s definitely my top five tailor albums, which shifts 10 of them. [00:42:25] So, you know, it, it’s, it, it, I don’t think it’s in the top three because I think that that’s read evermore folklore, maybe 1989 replaces one of the, the folk mos. Um, but, but it, but it’s definitely in the top five and, and I think that it, um, I didn’t expect that. So that’s was kind of my response was that two things. [00:42:46] One, um, it’s a return to an old sound that she works with Jack Antonoff, um, who’s her longtime friend and, and collaborator. He produces all the tracks on the main version. Um, uh, Aaron Deser does do some stuff on the, uh, three, the 3M version, but it’s this return to pop, but it’s this return, I think. After she now has achieved this sort of credibility from basically everyone in the industry that they, they can’t diminish her again. [00:43:14] Right. So it’s almost like, it almost feels like listening to her and going through the process, it’s almost like she felt more free to just be like, No one is ever going to doubt my skills, whether they like the work or not. Right? Like, she’s now solidified as an artist. So I think that it’s, it’s interesting, like, and, and I like a lot of the songs. [00:43:33] Like, I think that a lot of the production things are interesting. I think a lot of the lyrics are really good. Um, I think it’s a really good record, but it, it was, it was hard for me at first. That’s my very overly long response. [00:43:44] Jeffrey: Yeah. Wait, will you quick, I may put this earlier, but will you state the sort of premise of this album and describe the 3:00 AM version [00:43:53] Christina: Yeah, so the premise is basically it’s, it’s stuff that keeps her up at night, which is why it’s, I call it the old retired album because she, she literally said that this is the things she would think about that would keep her up at night and, and the songs that she would write at midnight, and the thoughts going through her head and the stories, and they’re from various faces of her life. [00:44:10] So that’s the other, uh, big thing with this album is it is a return to the confessional songwriting that she’s famous for on evermore and folklore. She stepped out of that a little bit. There was some of that, but most of it, Just, you know, made up stories. This is back to that confessional songwriting from different eras of her life. [00:44:27] And then the 3:00 AM section were our seven additional tracks that didn’t fit thematically or for whatever reason on the album, but that she also recorded during those sessions. Many of them are very good. Um, and, and she’s famous for referencing like 2:00 AM or 3:00 AM in her song lyrics. So having them come out at 3:00 AM like that, that’s, you know, it can be a little coin. [00:44:50] I enjoy it, but I understand other people playing it coining. She does a lot of these Easter direct things, but she is nothing if not self-referential and, and if not, like, highly, highly meticulous about, you know, this stuff. And so, yeah, that, that’s the two things. So the core album is 13 tracks. Uh, 13 is her lucky number. [00:45:07] And, um, then there’s seven additional, um, 3:00 AM tracks, which, which, you know, uh, pat out the, the whole thing. [00:45:15] Jeffrey: Okay. Okay. Well, I, I will say that I, I loved, so this album just felt it’s an album that’s delivered lightly. Like it’s not, it doesn’t come in like trying to prove itself . Right. But at the same time, she, you know, when, when her like words and phrases as I’m working and listening to it, like sneak through, um, it’s always really like, I’m just like, Oh, I’m glad I heard that. [00:45:43] I’m glad, you know, like, although, I mean beginning with in Antihero, like it’s me. Hi, I’m the problem. It’s me. Like just the way she delivers that, um, it being a great line on its own, but just being, the way she delivers it is just fantastic. It doesn’t feel, it’s really nice when an artist can like be really, they’re really delivering something, right? [00:46:06] But they’re not. not all caught up in themselves delivering it. And that’s how that album feels to me for, from her, it just feels like exactly what it is. It feels like a 10th album feels like somebody who’s a few years out of a really shitty contract, Right? and someone who knows herself deeply, especially since she has to revisit herself in the most, you know, detailed manners. [00:46:30] Um, [00:46:30] Brett: feel like, I feel like my opinion might have been swayed by Christina in the opposite way intended. Like, [00:46:38] Christina: like it less [00:46:40] Brett: if somebody loves something too much, then I instinctively it’s, it’s not cool to also love that thing. [00:46:47] Jeffrey: let’s see. Even at the scale, even at the scale of a friend, not like a culture or a society, but like a friend, I remember to downplay that with no more gratitude. We’re just gonna like, be really like, well, I kind of, I guess I kind of like this app a little bit. And Brett’s gonna be like, what app? What app? [00:47:05] Brett: Like, I listened to this album, I, I listen and, and I listened, and anytime a lyric caught my attention, I would go back and I would read all of the lyrics. And like repeatedly I thought, Holy shit. She is a wordsmith and a, and a, an art artisanal songwriter. Like she crafts amazing songs. The fact was, I. [00:47:32] Feel anything the way I do when I listen to the music. I know I love, uh, like I feel something, I feel connected and I didn’t feel connected. Like I strong admiration, like it is a solid album. The songwriting is on point. The lyrics are pretty amazing, um, as far as pop lyrics go, but it didn’t, it didn’t connect with me on that deep level where I’m like, Oh my God, this person, I, I could have a beer with this person. [00:48:05] Uh, much way I could with George W. Bush. Just kidding. Um, but like, yeah, like, it didn’t, it didn’t connect in that deeper way, but I left it with a strong admiration as I always do. Like I have always known Taylor Swift as a, an artful song creator. Uh, just, I didn’t, it didn’t touch me. [00:48:30] Christina: No [00:48:30] Jeffrey: Oh, like the, like the Divines single. When I think about you, I touch myself, Brett. I wonder how many podcasts the Divines have even been mentioned on in the history of podcasts. Uh, [00:48:42] Christina: I don’t want anybody [00:48:45] Jeffrey: else mean nothing about you? [00:48:47] Christina: touch myself. [00:48:48] Jeffrey: Mm-hmm. [00:48:49] Brett: Mm-hmm. [00:48:52] Jeffrey: uh, also Taylor on this album, well placed cuss words per our earlier. [00:48:57] Brett: Yep. [00:48:58] Christina: She’s finally started doing that. That, that, that’s this, this, this is, and, and it’s, Gawker actually wrote a, a Kelly convo wrote a funny thing about how like, she’s finally, she’s 32 years old and she’s finally learned to curse almost convincingly. And, and I think that’s accurate. Cuz the first time she, she used some of the, that she would curse. [00:49:14] We were all like, Okay, this doesn’t, And you know, she curses in her real life, but it just, it didn’t feel right. It almost, I, I think that the Kelly convoy like, nailed it. Like it’s, they’re well placed. Yeah. [00:49:27] Jeffrey: Awesome. Well, tell me something. What else do you wanna know? What else do you wanna say rather about this album? Because [00:49:33] Christina: I, I, I mean, I wanna hear more from you. I mean, cuz I really, I really enjoyed it. Like I said, like it’s, it’s not, I think that, I don’t know, this was, this is a hard album to do in some ways because the last two were so great, Right? And, and brought in a whole new fan base. So in some ways I kind of do appreciate the risk a little bit of being like, you know, that you’re going to, they’re gonna be people like, like Brett who might have really connected with folklore and evermore, but are going to have admiration maybe for the art in this, but are not going to like, wanna listen to this record cuz they’re not gonna have the emotional connection. [00:50:04] Um, but I, I kind of, I kind of weirdly kind of respect that. Like there’s, you know, maybe like, I think there’s a lot of us would’ve just loved to hear like Taylor and Deser do more stuff together. I certainly would. but I, I, I, the one song that really got me, and this is, this is the only one I’d really wanna talk about, but I wanna hear your thoughts, is Mastermind, which is the, the final track, um, on, on the main version. [00:50:29] Um, and it’s track 13. And I think that it is, uh, it encapsulates, So I’ve, I’ve talked to before on this podcast, repeatedly, like I’ve done like psychoanalysis of her, which is unfair cause I’m not a doctor or anything. This is what we do. Um, where like it’s so clear that so many, like, she’s still so much of her psyche and things are wrapped up in like, the fact that she didn’t have friends when she was a kid. [00:50:54] And also the fact that like, she is a very calculating and very strategic person and she used to get really upset when people would say, Oh, she’s calculating, or she’s this or that. And like, she would almost like treat it like, like people were slurring her. And it’s like, Okay, but you are, And that’s what I love about her. [00:51:11] Like I love the fact that she’s. Not like, like Lana Del Ray is so cool and, and Phoebe bridgers are so cool and like they, it feels more effortless for him, you know, with Taylor that she’s never not tried a day in her life. Like she cares so deeply about everything, which. To me, part of the appeal with her, like she’s so type a, it, it, it’s, it’s endearing for me. [00:51:32] I understand foul. For other people it might not be, but for me it is. But to have the song Mastermind where she’s basically talking about how, uh, it’s presumably about her, her, her current, like long term, um, uh, partner who they’ve been together for like six years, who basically, she’s like, I, I saw you and I basically constructed this entire situation so that we would go home together because I wanted to fuck you. [00:51:55] And I put everything together so that it would happen. And you had, you know, thinking that you would have no idea that, that I put all these things into place. And then the, that, the final Stan is basically, he, he knew the whole time that, that she was doing all that and, and still kind of went along with it. [00:52:12] But there is, um, a, a, a bridge, um, that I, that I think just like. It reformed every head can I’ve ever had about her, which is no one wanted to play with me as a little kid. So I’ve been scheming like a criminal ever since to make them love me and make it seem effortless. This is the first time I felt the need to confess, and I swear I’m only cryptic and maccabean cuz I care. [00:52:36] Jeffrey: I am interested that there’s no, we’re talking about, you know, the, uh, the issue with the anti hero video, um, and her stepping on a scale that says fat and her, the judging self next to her kind of wagging a finger at her. You know, as of when we’re recording, that’s been edited out, the little clip, uh, where you [00:52:54] Christina: That the fat part has been edited out. Yeah, [00:52:57] Jeffrey: Um, in and in response to people going, Hey, that’s kind of a messed up way to use that. Um, we do not know yet if she will have a statement on this. Right. She has not had a statement. It may just be that kind of subtle removal of [00:53:12] Christina: It’ll probably be that she, she, she almost never addresses things like that. Um, especially now, like she used to maybe be a little more comic, but she’s basically, she does very few interviews now. She doesn’t give statements like that. It’ll be interesting. She recorded Graham Norton, um, a couple days ago and, and I don’t know if he would bring it up or not. [00:53:35] Um, you know, he might have had to agree not to. I have no idea. [00:53:38] Jeffrey: So in her, in your experience of her, like she’s not someone who you’d be waiting, unlike a tweet storm, uh, from her, or an apology or a defense or whatever. [00:53:48] Christina: Um, not anymore. [00:53:50] Jeffrey: Yeah, so the comment is the edit, which is not nothing. I mean, it’s, it was gone by the [00:53:57] Christina: It’s, it’s, it is, Yeah. I was gonna say, it’s a capitulation, right? Like, I mean, I, I know we have a good gratitude, but were there any standout tracks for you that like you found yourself listening to, um, more frequent. [00:54:09] Jeffrey: I mean, not to be boring but fucking anti-hero, like it’s a great song like that. I have been walking around with that song in my head for days now. [00:54:18] Brett: Yep. That’s the one. [00:54:20] Jeffrey: Yep. [00:54:20] Christina: No, I, I and I, she is notorious for not choosing good singles. That’s her first single. And, uh, she, she broke it this time. Like, she definitely, like, I, I agree. I think think she nailed it. Like I think the songs, the song’s a hit is a smash. [00:54:36] Jeffrey: great. And then I’m embarrassed. I have not tracked the name on this cuz I have been listening to it just around the house, which is the one where she so nicely drops the F-bombs. [00:54:47] Christina: Um, [00:54:48] Jeffrey: Maybe you’re on your own kid. I can’t, I’m. [00:54:50] Christina: yeah. Yeah, you’re on your own kid, uh, which is a track vibe, which is really good. Um, it might be on, um, uh, vigilante shit. [00:55:00] Jeffrey: Yeah, it’s one of those two. I like both those songs a lot. Oh wait, we got to ease. I’m looking at it now. We got question vigilante, shit, Karma and snow on the beach, whatever that means. [00:55:11] Christina: Oh, still on the beach is, is weird, but fucking beautiful. Um, so, so that, that, [00:55:16] Brett: Lana Del Ray. [00:55:17] Christina: with Lana Delray, which is a great song. [00:55:19] Jeffrey: that’s, that’s the one I think I’m thinking of. [00:55:21] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, I love that. [00:55:23] Jeffrey: Yeah. Awesome. Um, alright, well that was fun. I also like the, I like iTunes as little like motion album covers now and she’s got her little [00:55:34] Christina: Yeah, I like that too. [00:55:35] Jeffrey: It’s a nice touch. [00:55:36] Christina: Yeah, I like that too. I like it too. Um, uh, and, and for any, uh, listeners out there, if you, the lyric videos that, that she did like this time around are, are pretty good. Um, she, [00:55:46] Brett: Yeah, they really are. Yeah. [00:55:48] Christina: the, the production, like it’s actually even higher than they were for, uh, um, folklore or evermore. [00:55:53] But yeah, the lyric [00:55:53] Brett: Did she make those lyric videos? [00:55:56] Christina: I mean, she or her team does. Yeah. [00:55:58] Brett: Okay, cool. Yeah, they are good. They were some of the best PowerPoint transitions I’ve ever seen. [00:56:05] Christina: Oh, that’s what I’m saying. Like, like, like I look at it, I’m like, these are really freaking good. Like, like, like you’ve done good drone footage. I don’t like, I mean, I’m sure she doesn’t actually do it, but she, she art directs everything. Like, she’s like, Yeah. So thank you for ex for, for indulging us, Brett to talk way, way too long about Taylor. [00:56:23] I appreciate it. [00:56:24] Brett: this, this was the Taylor episode. You, you agreed, you agreed tacitly that we were no longer a Taylor [00:56:32] Christina: I do, [00:56:33] Brett: if we got to come back for major album releases. And this, this matters, this, this is a Taylor episode and, and I believe the title should be, This is Taylor Swift Grapptitude [00:56:48] Jeffrey: Noted. That’s awesome. All right. Gratitude, grip, gratitude. Who wants to go first? [00:56:56] Brett: Oh, oh, I’m [00:56:58] Jeffrey: You ready? Go do it. Come on. [00:56:59] Brett: I’m on this text buddy. Um, Tyler Hall made this app called Text Buddy that you can use as a service or you can load it up and pace text into it. And it basically just performs all kinds of transformations on your text. Uppercase, lowercase, snake case, Uh, and you can write your own custom converters for it. [00:57:23] Uh, I have one that you can paste an entire objective c header file into it. Uh, and, and it will output, eh, nobody cares. But anyway. [00:57:37] Christina: no, we care. Come on. [00:57:39] Brett: Well, so, okay, so I made, you can, you can pace objective C method definitions into it, and it will output the header file code for you that you can just paste into the header file. [00:57:51] And if you use it as a service, you can just select your methods in X code, hit the hit your shortcut for the service, and then switch your header, file and paste in the new method definitions. It’s simple, it’s easy, uh, it’s easy to write extensions for. It can do. I, I do not know offhand exactly how many conversions are built in, but it’s gotta be 50 plus. [00:58:17] Um, as an honorable mention, and this came up in our discord, uh, Boo is a Mac app store app that is very similar. Uh, does text transformations personally, I’m a text buddy guy, but uh, I will link boo, uh, for anyone curious, anyone who works with text regularly and needs to, you know, sentence case or snake case something, uh, just on the fly. [00:58:49] Uh, both of these apps will, will do the trick. Nicely. [00:58:53] Jeffrey: Awesome. Um, who goes next? [00:59:00] Christina: Are you ready? [00:59:01] Brett: oh, oh. Can I, let me, let me say, let me say one thing. Uh, uh, set up, set up just announced a new app called Curio, and it is not the curio we talked about last week. It is a news aggregation app, and I’m pissed. I’m pissed that they took the name Curio. And now if you Google setup curio, you get something that is not the curio that has when we, like last week when we talked about curio, it was within days of Curios 20th anniversary. [00:59:40] Like, uh, like George went indie and started developing curio full-time 20 years ago. If anyone deserves the name curio, it’s George Browning. But, [00:59:53] Jeffrey: there’s also a, there’s also a 3D printing design app called Curio, [00:59:58] Brett: yeah, it’s a different space. There’s, that’s not gonna be on set app, like Set App focuses on Mac apps. And I, and I wish that they respected a 20 year veteran enough to not have a naming conflict, [01:00:13] Christina: Who, who is the, who’s the developer behind it? Because I think that like [01:00:16] Brett: uh, of a new app. [01:00:18] Christina: Yeah. [01:00:19] Brett: Let’s find out. [01:00:21] Christina: Cause they’re the ones I, I, I fault more than set [01:00:23] Brett: Curio set app silhouette 1 0 1. [01:00:31] Christina: Yeah. Uh, [01:00:32] Brett: That’s the printer. Okay, hold on. Journalism narrated is by, [01:00:43] Christina: Oh, I know this. Okay. Yeah, so, so this is, this is a service. This is basically one app for all the news. This is like a, um, they, they claim they’re gonna, it’s sort of like Autumn, which the New York time spot where like, they, they read, um, uh, the news for you [01:00:58] Brett: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don’t, At curio.io is the company behind it. [01:01:07] Christina: right? So, so this started out, I think as like a web service iOS app. So I’ll give them a little bit of a pass. I didn’t realize that there was, um, uh, yeah, there’s not a Mac app. I mean, it, I didn’t, I didn’t know it was in setup because that’s clearly gonna be, um, Some conflict, but I think that when this app was created, it was probably like, not like they were like, [01:01:30] Brett: in a different realm. Yes. [01:01:32] Christina: Yeah. Cuz this is, I, I subscribe to Autumn, which is very similar, but I think better actually. Um, cuz I’ve, I’ve tested curio before and, and the, the readers that Autumn has are just better. Um, but, uh, but I didn’t realize this was part of setup now, which is, which is interesting. Cool. [01:01:52] Jeffrey: Awesome. [01:01:54] Christina: Uh, Jeff, do you are ready to go? [01:01:56] Jeffrey: Yeah. I could go, I, I can’t remember if this has been used before or not, but, um, deck set, which is [01:02:04] Christina: Oh yeah. We, we, we’ve talked about it, but not, Yeah, we, No, but, but it’s been years. We haven’t talked about it in years, so, so definitely please make it hasn’t been gratitude, so. Absolutely. Tell us more about Deck, uh, deck set. Cuz Brett and I are both fans. [01:02:18] Jeffrey: deck set and there’s another app that does this. Brett, you might remember better than me, that you, because I think you’ve talked to me about [01:02:24] Brett: there’s another app that does it not as well with the very job-like Interface Tech said is the more elegant version, [01:02:31] Jeffrey: deck set is essentially just a way of, um, creating presentations like PowerPoint style with a markdown file. Um, and I have loved it for a long time. Um, I love, I mean, it’s exactly why you like, you know, if you like writing markdown or writing text files, it’s exactly why you like that. You don’t want to be distracted by design, which, like, , I just watched my wife put together a PowerPoint presentation and like the shit that she’d just be like, if I could only get it to do this one simple thing, I’d be done. [01:03:03] Right? Like it’s, you know, it doesn’t have nearly as many features as PowerPoint, which I don’t fully. Um, but as someone, as someone who really, as much as possible, needs to not get caught up in how things look while I’m creating, um, , which is a big thing for me, it’s just beautiful. And you can make really good looking slideshow. [01:03:26] There’s, there’s nice little templates you put your images in. Anything you wanna do, you can do. And, um, and the other thing is I’ve been going through and kind of archiving a, a project that I’ve been working on for about five years, just archiving some of the. Bits and pieces that are officially ready to be retired. [01:03:43] And some of those are like presentations we gave to our funder or whatever. And as an example, I have one, uh, PowerPoint where I, I, you know, dragged in some photos and some images that were very large. Somehow this PowerPoint got to be, you know, two gigabytes, large and the same thing, uh, done in, in deck set where I’ve just got a folder with images that I’m calling, right, is obviously it’s just a text file and it’s a lot easier to kind of go back and revisit the past. [01:04:13] It’s like future proof, right? Um, in ways that PowerPoint just can’t be. So I don’t know if I’ve done a good job of explaining it, but I really love it. [01:04:22] Brett: here’s my deck set story. Um, I was at the Command D conference at Salsa Sego in, uh, of Apple Script, uh, fame and automator fame put on, and I was there as like a last minute volunteer ticket taker, um, like working my, working to pay off my ticket. And the keynote speaker canceled, uh, on the second day, or first day, maybe it was only a one day conference. [01:04:53] Either way, the keynote speaker canceled and they asked me to fill in same day the keynote speaker spot, and. . And so I’m there with my laptop and I have maybe two hours to put together a presentation, uh, to try to wrap up the Command D Festival conference. And, uh, yeah, so I wrote it in markdown. I used deck set. [01:05:23] I output a deck. I presented it using deck set on the, uh, on the projector. And it was a breeze, like for, for a quick and dirty, very good looking presentation written in with the simplicity of markdown syntax, uh, without any fiddling with font sizes or, or image placement or anything. Everything was just a breeze and, and I pulled it off. [01:05:57] I think I made a pretty good presentation. Uh, but it was all thanks to deck set. [01:06:02] Jeffrey: What, what got me to deck set was that like I, I was writing my PowerPoints in text files just to make sure that I had, or like a kind of a grasp on what it was. I was trying to say that it wasn’t too long and it was like, surely this can just become a PowerPoint presentation. And that’s where it, where it came in for me is like, so I also just recommended as an exercise, just try making a presentation with deck set and see what it’s like to actually just write out a little document and how much more for me, how much more concise. [01:06:34] I was succinct, like all that stuff. It was just way, way better. I wanna also just add that they have a beta um, deck set for iOS that is [01:06:45] Christina: Oh, nice. That I didn’t know about. Okay, cool. [01:06:47] Jeffrey: yeah, [01:06:49] Christina: That’s great. Yeah. So my, my experience with it has been, so for work I have to use Keynote or PowerPoint for a lot of things that I do just because there are like, um, either, uh, like requirements for style or other stuff. So for certain conferences you have to do that. [01:07:04] But if I’m doing something that can be more low key, especially if I’m doing a lot of code with it, Dex said is great because it really does make inserting code blocks like that look good. One of the best ways you can do that. And, and, um, and that, that for me is, was, was kind of like the thing that kind of got me into it, um, was, uh, and then I remember bringing it to Brett, I think on this podcast and he was like, Oh yeah, I’ve known about this for years. [01:07:28] I was like, Oh, I was brand new to it. But for me, the big thing was honestly beyond just kind of like the quick and dirty and like being. As you said, it is a great way of thinking more simply in a document, but for me it is way easier to embed, um, uh, syntax highlighted code samples with it than, than it is with Keynote or PowerPoint, where you have to do, you know, like a, the screenshot process and, and all that stuff. [01:07:55] Like, it’s just, it’s a lot easier. And then if you need to make a change to the code, you’ve gotta redo another screenshot and all that stuff, which makes things complicated, which interestingly enough does is a, is a perfect segue to my gratitude, which is a new CLI tool from Charm, um, who we’ve talked about before, like they do gum and they do like the, the, the charm libraries. [01:08:15] Um, like, like a bubble tea and other, and lip gloss. Like that help. Basically it’s, it’s a bunch of go library stuff that, um, make. Look, do really good looking cli um, tooling. Um, it makes stuff really pretty, but they just released this thing called vhs, which lets you generate terminal, uh, gyps or um, uh, movie files, um, with code. [01:08:36] And so it is, um, it is great. So there’s this thing called schema, which. We’ll basically capture your output from a terminal in, um, like a high resolution kind of, uh, specialty format, um, that you can then share. You can either self host it or do their own thing. But the problem with schema is a, sometimes I actually need the video file and getting a video file from there format is a pain in the fucking ass. [01:09:02] The same thing with trying to turn it into a gif. The other thing is that is fine if you’re wanting to actually type out everything yourself and capture it like it’s great, this is a little bit different. And then what it’s doing is you’re writing a script that is basically, they have this thing that they’re calling like dot tape, which is, which is like their, their, um, generative file. [01:09:22] But you’re basically writing a script that is going to say, This is what I want. This text output and this recording to do so, I want it to, you know, this is the code that I want typed, This is how long I wanna pause. This is the response that I’m, I’m looking for, this is how I wanna interact with the response. [01:09:38] You can customize the font. You can customize like the, um, the, um, refresh rate, you can customize like colors. Um, I, it’s been out for 24 hours, so I haven’t had a chance to play [01:09:48] Jeffrey: This is [01:09:48] Christina: totally in depth. But for a lot of the coding stuff that I have to do, like a lot for presentations or for demos or for videos, this is going to save me so much time. [01:10:00] So, so vh it’s called vhs. [01:10:03] Jeffrey: It’s amazing. And also in that kind of, obviously like thinking in terms of future proof, right? Or like, how can I revisit this in 15 years? Like maybe I’ve still got the gif, but in here you’ve got, you’ve written like essentially a little script, right? [01:10:19] Christina: Yep, exactly right. Which, which exactly the point of like with Deck said is like, okay, cuz if I need to make a, a change now I just change that script. Whereas I don’t have to go back and rerecord the whole thing. I don’t have to recapture the whole thing. And what I don’t think will, uh, have talked about enough, and this is like the problem that they announced it yesterday and, um, I know their team a little bit because of, um, my previous shoutouts and, and I did a, um, actually a, a, a twitch stream with them, um, last week or week before last. [01:10:46] Um, about, um, uh, sustainability and open source. And they’re really good people, but like, I think a lot of people don’t like understand like capturing terminal output is way more complex than it should be if you want it to be high resolution in like the right frame rate. Like I’ve gotten it down to a science. [01:11:03] But it’s not easy if you want it to be big enough or if you want it, like to, to have everything work, right? Like, it’s not as easy. Oh, just, just use like a screen capture tool. Like, it’s like, no, there’s, there’s more involved than that. And so this, uh, is, is really gonna be great. [01:11:20] Brett: When, when, Most of the times if I’m making a screencast for any, um, marketing purposes, I script it and, and it’s a pain in the ass to script it with, with Apple Script or whatever tool you’re using. Uh, so this kinda tool would be [01:11:37] Christina: Yeah, you’re gonna love this. You’re gonna love using this for market and marketing stuff is really what this is designed for, right? Like, I would not do a full demo in this, obviously. Um, uh, this is not what it’s for, but if you need like, uh, like, like an animated j or, or even like a video, you know, kind of like of a few lines of code, but you want it to be high quality. [01:11:55] You want it to be, you know, um, in other things. You can even [01:11:59] Brett: smooth and without a lot of backspacing and pauses. Yeah. [01:12:04] Christina: Plus, plus. What’s nice about this too, your output, not only can you output in GIF or mp4, you can also output as like frames in p and g. So, so I think what it’s doing under the hood is that it’s like using like a web scraper like Chrome and then basically doing kind of like, like generating the code based on your scripting and then kind of doing a recording in on that. [01:12:24] So it’s automating, like you were probably doing something very similar, Brett, with the way you were scripting things with Apple Script. Um, I never got that involved. I was like, I’ll use Schema and I’ll do, you know, have some presets in, in screen flow, but I never like, did what you’re doing. But this is like, I, I think that this is, uh, this is pretty. [01:12:46] Jeffrey: That’s awesome. I love it. Also, just love all of their stuff. [01:12:49] Christina: Yeah, me too. I, I, I, I think that they’re branding everything about them. Like they’re, they’re really cool. I’m, I’m actually gonna meet them, um, uh, at a GitHub universe. [01:12:58] Jeffrey: Oh, nice. [01:12:59] Brett: so jealous. [01:13:00] Christina: Yeah, I know. I wish you could be there. [01:13:01] Jeffrey: Hey, that, that Twitch, uh, is it recorded somewhere? [01:13:06] Christina: Yes. I will. I will find it in, link it in, uh, in, in the show notes. [01:13:10] Jeffrey: Great. Awesome. [01:13:13] Brett: I, I, I ran search link on VHS charm and it literally gave me a VHS charm bracelet like thing. I don’t think that’s what we want. [01:13:29] Jeffrey: I don’t think so. [01:13:30] Brett: find the right link. [01:13:32] Jeffrey: Ugh. I’ll edit that. Yawn out. Sorry, Awesome. This was fun. [01:13:40] Christina: Yeah. [01:13:42] Jeffrey: All right. People get some sleep though. [01:13:46] Brett: Get some sleep, Jeff. [01:13:48] Jeffrey: I’ll give my [01:13:48] Christina: Get some sleep. Uh, Brett and Jeff [01:13:51] Jeffrey: Get some sleep. Christina and Brett, we got it. [01:13:54] Outro: The is going down low.

Brett and Christina are, get this, tired. Brett because of mental health stuff, Christina because of a new Taylor Swift drop, but they pull it together to make one hell of an episode. Hang on to your butts. Mental Health, debating the Midwest, and some Mac apps you should definitely try. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 40% off your order. Show Links Ellen Forney GitHub Universe Curio MenuBarX Quinn Nelson Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript This One’s Not About Taylor Swift. That’s Next Week. [00:00:00] Brett: Hey everybody, this is Brett Terpstra. I’ve been up since 2:00 AM um, just working to make Overtired as tired as possible. I am here as always, with Christina Warren, Jeff Severances. Gunzel has the week off. Christina, this is gonna be a weird episode. [00:00:21] Christina: It is gonna be weird episode, but I have to say, I’m super excited for Jeff to be on, um, next episode because You and Jeff both will have homework you will have to do, which is to listen to Taylor Swift’s midnights. But you’ve been up since 2:00 AM for a reason. I’ve, I went to bed late because Taylor Swift’s new album about the things that keep her up at night. [00:00:41] That’s like, literally like what, what the, what the album kind of is about. Uh. [00:00:46] Brett: obligated. You felt maybe you should stay up all night and listen to the things that keep Taylor up at night. [00:00:51] Christina: Right. But also, I mean, I, I did go to bed at like 2:00 AM but like, um, two or three. But, um, the thing is, is that [00:01:00] this is like the Overtired Taylor album, and since we are a Taylor Swift podcast, it does almost feel fitting that it is just like you and I like for this. Like, I, like I said, I can’t wait for Jeff to join us for like a full, like, deep dive and, um, and, and, and get into it all, especially since he’s even less of a fan than you are. [00:01:19] But, um, we are a Taylor Swift podcast and it’s a Taylor Swift pop album, [00:01:24] Brett: I wanna add some clarity here. Um, uh, we have moved away from being a Taylor Swift podcast because, uh, we have become a mental health podcast. And then I believe in the tagline it says, Anne Taylor Swift for some fucking reason. Um, so yes, she’s still gonna come up, but I refuse to call it the Taylor Swift podcast anymore. [00:01:49] The joke, the joke got old for me. [00:01:51] Christina: Well, that’s fine. But, but, [00:01:53] Brett: But we are a pop culture. I mean, we are absolutely a pop culture podcast, so, [00:01:57] Christina: we are, but also we have to go back to the old [00:02:00] tagline, at least for one week, because she released an album Brett, about shit that keeps her up at night. [00:02:04] Brett: All right. That’ll be the, the episode will be titled Something to do with Taylor Swift. We will make a huge week long Taylor Swift extravaganza next week. [00:02:16] Christina: Excellent. Excellent. But it’s, it’s so, so, so you’re, you’re tired for real reasons. Um, I’m, And you’re in your grouchy and, um, I’m a [00:02:29] Brett: Yeah, I might be. Um, [00:02:33] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, a little bit. Um, and. [00:02:36] Brett: a God Taylor Swift podcast. God damn. [00:02:39] Christina: I’m tired of this joke. It’s been eight years. Christina. I’m fucking tired of this joke, Christina. No. Um, but, uh, yeah, so, um, how are you doing? [00:02:53] Mental Health Corner [00:02:53] Brett: I am, like I said up since two. I might, I’m like mania. I might be starting a little [00:03:00] manic episode. Um, should we, can we segue mental [00:03:04] Christina: No, let’s just, I was just gonna say, let’s just go into the mental health corner. [00:03:08] Brett: so I think I talked last week. If I didn’t, I was just talking to my therapist and. Didn’t talk about it here, but, um, I’m really curious as to whether what I have considered stable in the past with my bipolar, uh, whether it’s actually been just like low grade depression, uh, because like I get so bored and unmotivated when I am what I’ve always called stable. [00:03:35] Um, and I like dream about the mania when I’m in those states and I’ve begun to realize through talking to my therapist and going to a talk with Ellen Forney that maybe I don’t know what stable is and maybe there is. A stable I can find where I can still be creative and productive and like a fucking [00:04:00] normal person with some energy. [00:04:02] And, um, so I bought, I bought Ellen Forney’s two books, um, Marbles, which is kind of her like, she’s a, she’s a graphic artist, uh, a comic. Um, and she, not a, not a comedian, but she, she draws comics. Um, [00:04:20] Christina: She’s a, yeah, she’s a graphic novelist, I guess. [00:04:23] Brett: yeah, there you go. And Marbles is her kind of like story of her bipolar, uh, with a little bit of advice woven into it. But then as a result of the feedback to Marbles, she wrote a book called Brock Study, which is nothing but like, How she stays stable, like what’s important and like, I’m, so, I started reading rock study. [00:04:50] I haven’t gotten marbles yet, but I feel like rock study is the more useful one. And I’m really hoping to find the secret. Like I’ve been up since two. I’m not positive, [00:05:00] I’m manic, but, um, I have been coding a lot. And what I’m realizing is if I knew what to do when, when a manic episode starts to prevent it from going full swing, and I could just get that like one morning of super productive coding and then fucking like chill and sleep the next night. [00:05:21] Um, that would be kind of an ideal situation for me. I don’t need 10 days of hypomania. I just need that one first morning. Um, but anyway, that’s, that’s where I’m at. I’ll link Ellen Forney in the show notes for anyone who’s curious. Uh, the books are really good. Seeing her talk was just inspiring. I, I learned a lot. [00:05:43] Christina: That’s awesome. Did you get to talk to her at all? [00:05:45] Brett: Um, I got into the q and a, I was doing it over Zoom. [00:05:49] Christina: Oh, gotcha. Okay. [00:05:50] Brett: but I got to, I got to drop some questions into the q and a and interact with her a little bit. Um, didn’t, didn’t get to meet her personally though. [00:05:59] Christina: Nice. [00:06:00] Oh, so she lives in Seattle actually. That’s cool. Um, as a visual artist, she created two permanent large scale porcelain enamel murals for Sound Transits Capital Hill Light rail station in Seattle. I live in Capital Hill. That’s cool. Um, no, I’m glad you gotta see her talk. Yeah. You mentioned last week a little bit of this, about how like you thought that maybe what you’d always classified as, you always thought you had bipolar. [00:06:24] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And there’s some other, I have, I still haven’t found the name of it, but some other, some something with the word cycle in it. [00:06:32] Christina: Right. Well, it’s like rapid cycling. Is that what it is? [00:06:35] Brett: well, that’s type two. [00:06:36] Christina: That’s type two. [00:06:37] Brett: Um, uh, there’s a, there’s another type that never hits, like full on depression. Like, I don’t get like suicidally depressed. Um, I just get unmotivated and, and lackluster. [00:06:53] Christina: Right. [00:06:53] Brett: And the idea that maybe there’s a word for going between [00:07:00] hypomania and, and, uh, lackluster minor depression, uh, rapidly and never finding stable in between. Like, that’s, that seems like me. [00:07:13] Christina: Yeah, no. [00:07:14] Brett: I will finish my research on that and come back and if I decided to fit for me, um, I’ll talk to therapist slash psychiatrist about it and if that’s the case, I will come back and make a definitive declaration and actually remember the word for what it is. [00:07:30] Christina: Yeah. No, but I mean, I think that that’s, that’s definitely like interesting to to think about when we were talking about that last week about you, like figuring that out. It would be good to know, because maybe that would change how you could be treated and maybe you could find a better middle ground between the two. [00:07:43] Right. Um, because, but, but I will say like, at least, um, the, uh, at least like you don’t have the suicidal depression because that would be if you had, if you were going like, okay, if you were like cycling between those states, between like a [00:08:00] suicidal depression and the mania that I, I’m gonna be honest with you, I, I, I don’t know if that would be [00:08:05] Brett: Yeah. That was my uncle. It wasn’t cool. It wasn’t cool. [00:08:09] Christina: no. Like I don’t wanna. No, I’m not gonna say what I’m actually thinking because that’s too dark, but, um [00:08:17] Brett: My, my worst impression means that I think that everyone’s mad at me or, or everyone’s laughing at me. Um, and, and I get very anxious and concerned, but not like, harm myself or, or do anything like that. [00:08:34] Christina: right. Which, which to be clear, that’s still like, not at all, like, uh, a good thing, but. At all. Like that’s, that’s, that’s in no way, like, I, I don’t want you to like discount that. Um, my worst suppression, um, I mean, it, it’s rarely gone into like self-harm things because A, I don’t find anything therapeutic about that. [00:08:52] And b, the one time I did like overdose on pills, I immediately like, thought better, but I was like, You fucking [00:09:00] idiot, you’re probably just going to make yourself brain dead and that’s gonna be worse. So I had to call 9 1 1 and then go get my stomach pumped and all that shit, and it was a whole pain in the ass. [00:09:09] And then like some fucking like, um, some bitch who had like masters and social workers, some shit came to like talk to me and I’m like, My mom has more qualifications than you get the fuck away from me. I have an actual psychiatrist. I was such a bitch, but I was also like, I was also like 20 years old. [00:09:26] Brett: You see this brand on my arm. [00:09:28] Christina: I can. [00:09:29] Brett: That was the result of one of my early in my, uh, twenties after getting clean off of drugs, which make it really hard to tell, you know what? [00:09:39] Christina: Oh yeah, [00:09:40] Brett: is like, um, and also apparently could have caused bipolar. [00:09:43] Christina: yeah, I’ve heard that. I’ve heard that, that that can like trigger something. Well, I don’t know if it’s so much that it causes it, like maybe it could change something in your brain or if it like could just be the proceeding fact, the precipitating factor that like wakes it up. I don’t know. I’ve [00:09:57] Brett: but I didn’t, I didn’t know [00:10:00] how to get myself. I didn’t, I wasn’t diagnosed bipolar yet. All I knew is that I had gotten clean off of heroin and I was, uh, living at home and I didn’t have a job and I was dating a crazy, crazy girl. Um, and, and nothing seemed to be going quite right and I didn’t know what to do. [00:10:23] And I like branded myself just to just so the searing pain would like snap me out of it. And it worked for like a day. I was like, I felt normal. Uh, but that’s the only self-harm I’ve ever really partaken. [00:10:39] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. So, which, which I get, I’m glad at least that A wasn’t continued b, that like it did at least snap you out of it. Yeah, I had one, and again, like, I don’t wanna call it a suicide attempt because again, I thought better of it immediately after it happened. And I was like, again, I was like, you didn’t, you didn’t do this right. [00:10:58] These drugs are literally [00:11:00] just going to maybe put you into like a vegetative state and that would be worse. Or do something that would like environmentally. So, you know, it was okay. Um, and, and that was also what we kinda had to tell the hospital so that I wouldn’t be sent on a 51 50 hold, which everybody agreed. [00:11:15] They were like, Don’t do that. Um, but I’ve definitely had like moments where I wanted, I’ve been deeply suicidal. I just haven’t like, actually done the self-harm thing. But yeah, my worst depression has been like, literally can’t get out of bed and like, wanting to die all the time. And, and that I think like if I, if it was a cycle between that and mania, that’s what I’m saying, like that, that would be, I think an untenable situation to be completely honest. [00:11:42] Like, I don’t know. Yeah. I, I, I, like, I, I, I don’t even know what it, I wouldn’t have any advice for that. I wouldn’t have any professional, I mean, I’m [00:11:49] Brett: Yeah. When I, [00:11:50] Christina: but I don’t even know how, what to do. [00:11:52] Brett: when I first started seeing my therapist, um, he was very concerned about how I handled depression. [00:12:00] Um, and, and it wasn’t until we had talked a couple of times that he realized that my version of bipolar depression, uh, was not as deep as some of the people he had worked with before. Uh, that it’s, is there such a thing as hypo depression [00:12:19] Christina: Probably, yeah, probably where you could go into like a major depression and like a major bad of media one, three the other, and that would, I would think would be really concerning. So I’m glad you don’t have that because we, I mean, realistically we wouldn’t be able to do a podcast. Like you wouldn’t be able to function, you know what I mean? [00:12:34] Like it would be um, it would be [00:12:37] Brett: Podcasts only when Brett is manic and then everything goes off the rails. [00:12:41] Christina: Right. But also, yeah. I mean, God, I can’t even imagine. [00:12:43] Brett: If I was having, if I was having the kind of mania that I saw my uncle have, um, I also wouldn’t be podcasting like he was, he was not someone who would sit down and have a sane conversa. He would call you at two in the morning [00:13:00] and tell you all about how he was gonna buy like a new semi trailer at like a, a, a truck and it was gonna be bright silver and he was gonna drive it all over the country and he was gonna be a traveling, um, chaplain and yeah. [00:13:19] Christina: Yeah. Um, a, a person I was in a relationship with, um, in college, that, that was the situation. It was similar to that. And, uh, and, um, Ted Turner, um, who’s famously bipolar, used to call my father at two o’clock in the morning to talk about things like that. Yeah. [00:13:35] Brett: I, [00:13:36] Christina: randomly call him. And, uh, and my dad had finally gotta the point. [00:13:39] My dad was like, I can’t keep taking these calls from Ted when he is not medicated. [00:13:44] Brett: Yeah. My, my mania results in coding and my depression results in watching tv, and it’s pretty, pretty mild swings. Uh, both affect my productivity, but [00:13:58] Christina: Of course, and, and both affect like your [00:14:00] personal and your, and your relationships and, and other things. Um, but I’m just glad that neither of them are swung in either direction so much that like, and that’s honestly, but it’s probably why it’s difficult to diagnose. It’s probably why you’ve been called type two, even though these cycles happen really quickly. [00:14:16] Um, it might be this, this other thing they don’t know because they’re like, Well, I guess that’s what this is, just because neither of the swings are, are so bad. And also for some people, like, we never talked about this. Um, and I know that we should be getting to my mental health corner, but frankly I don’t have that much to add. [00:14:33] But, but I did wanna ask you like how, I don’t know if we ever talked about how you were diagnosed with, with bipolar. You, you mentioned that, that it, the, the drug coming off the drugs might have precipitated it. Was it the incident where, where you branded yourself? Was that the thing that maybe got you to a hospital or, or how were you diagnosed? [00:14:52] Brett: no, that didn’t get me to a hospital. Um, I went to the hospital after, um, basically [00:15:00] being. Depressed. Um, like I wanted to get off my ass and get a job and, uh, I wanted to get outta my parents’ home. And, uh, I just didn’t feel like it was working. So I, I signed up. My mom, I think probably, um, got me an appointment with a psychiatrist and I just kind of explained what was happening and he was like, Oh yeah, you’re bipolar. [00:15:26] Um, and there were clear signs back before I was on heroin, but definitely after I had started drug use. So that absolutely could have been a contributing factor. Um, so yeah, I think, I think my mom got me in there. Um, and I started immediately on Seroquel and, oh, there was some other drug that it turned out my doctor was getting like major kickbacks for prescribing. [00:15:54] Christina: Yeah, I had that incident. Mm-hmm. [00:15:56] Brett: It wasn’t, it wasn’t an ideal drug. [00:16:00] Um, I can’t remember the whole story. I just remember finding out that oh, yeah, he literally prescribed that to every one of his patients with any, any similar symptoms, um, regardless of their specific needs. And [00:16:16] Christina: Yeah, that, that was actually how I was incorrectly diagnosed as being bipolar. [00:16:20] Brett: yeah, [00:16:21] Christina: I think I’ve told you that story. I’ve probably told this on the podcast. [00:16:23] Brett: someone wanted the kickback from the diagnosis. [00:16:26] Christina: No, actually, what happened was she was mad that I called her out on the fact that she was getting a kickback. and she thought that my rapid thought in speaking quickly and just ability to just like fucking zone in and call her out because much like Taylor Swift, I do have the ability to zero in and I’m not proud of this. [00:16:45] Um, and it’s not a good thing. Um, and, and it’s, I I’ve gotten a lot better with it, but I can usually pick out people’s weaknesses pretty quickly and I can say something that could just like level you, right? Like, [00:17:00] and um, I was, she put me on Wellbutrin because Wellbutrin was something she was getting kickbacks from and it had helped at first, it helped my depression a lot at first, and then it didn’t. [00:17:11] And then like I was, I was in an, I was in this situation where I was both depressed and incredibly adhd and then I was stressed out cuz I was like, Look, I’m 15, like. I actually have to care about my grades and shit. Like I have to, you know, be able to, to focus and do stuff. And this was, I think this is before, this was, uh, this was shortly before I was, I was put on, um, Dexedrine for the first time. [00:17:35] But, um, I didn’t have an official ADHD diagnosis then, although it was obvious now that I clearly was, but also the depression, like the Wellbutrin, it worked great for six weeks and then it just stopped working. And then I was not only like incredibly depressed, but ADHD and all these things were happening. [00:17:50] And she kept insisting, No, no, no, you have to be on this. You have to be on this. And I’m like, It’s not working. And then she was also being weird about some other stuff, like [00:18:00] wanting to talk to me about my sex life and stuff. That was like not at all appropriate. We didn’t have that kind of relationship. [00:18:06] And my dad was potentially going to see her, and I think she was also gonna, she was trying to shove both. You turned down his throat and it clicked me. I was like, You’re getting fucking paybacks. Like, like kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies, aren’t you? And she, she tried to kind of hedge off. I was like, No, you are. [00:18:21] I was like, And that’s the only reason you say this. You don’t actually give a shit about me. You don’t care about anything else. I know what this is. I know what you’re doing. You’re a fraud, whatever. And then she was like, Well, you are bipolar and put me on lithium and I’m not [00:18:38] Brett: Ouch. No. And lithium sucks no matter what. [00:18:41] Christina: does, No, I was having shakes. [00:18:43] It was shitty. It was like one, And then that honestly, that then kicked off one of the worst major depressive episodes of my life where because of all that like that, like that was the first time I got to like the truly debilitating state. Um, and um, [00:19:00] and then it, it took me finding like some doctors, like, what did one doctor who only wanted to do cognitive behavioral therapy And my mom was like, Look, I understand that this is useful, but she can’t. [00:19:13] Get out of bed, we need something. And he was like not willing to give me any medication at all, really. And, uh, because he was only about wanting to, to do the, the, the C B T at first. And then we finally found Dr. Baker, who, um, was just like appalled with everything that had happened. And I was able to [00:19:34] Brett: Isn’t it nice when you find a doctor that is as frustrated with your history as you are [00:19:39] Christina: Yes, it is. Which is one of the reasons why, like, I still see my doctor, even though it’s inconvenient and expensive, because I don’t wanna go. I’m like, and he’s gonna retire soon. And I’m, I don’t know what I’m gonna do, like, [00:19:52] Brett: This would be a perfect segue into our Zocdoc sponsorship, but first I wanna hear how you’re doing. [00:19:58] Christina: Yeah, I’m doing okay. [00:20:00] I, um, I, um, I’m still having those digestive issues, uh, with a, I think from looking it up online, it, it seems like I, I, it’s some sort of reflux thing, but all the symptoms I have, it seems like I might have a hiatal hernia. The issue is, um, I don’t have any of the weight problems that are almost exclusively associated with that stuff, but the symptoms are like dead on. [00:20:24] Like if I have anything that has alcohol, if I have anything that has, um, even the, the least amount of like acid, like even tomato sauce or whatnot, like I will wind up throwing up stomach acid. Um, and uh, and, and. [00:20:39] Brett: gotta hurt. [00:20:39] Christina: It does. And it’s like not great cuz I’m, I’m limited in terms of what things I can find myself to eat. [00:20:45] I need to go to a gastroenterologist. The reality is I’m too fucking busy. I have too much work to do. I can’t do it. So where my mental health is, is that I’m having like, fit. And some of this also can be a manifestation of anxiety and um, and stress. But I’m literally at [00:21:00] the point where I am like, too, I’ve got too much shit to do that I cannot take care of my, like actual health. [00:21:07] So [00:21:08] Brett: you explained this to the people you work with? [00:21:11] Christina: I have look, they’d [00:21:13] Brett: Like, cuz it seems like, it seems like the kind of thing that they would be like, No, your health comes first. We’ll take this off your plate. You get this figured out. That just seems [00:21:25] Christina: Well, yes and no, you’re not crazy. But it’s also, I mean, look, if I, There’s also a part of it where like if I sell them that then I don’t wanna like lose the opportunities and the things that I’m going to do. Like I really wanna host GitHub universe and we’re prepared for. [00:21:39] Brett: But your fucking health, [00:21:40] Christina: Yeah, but like my health, I can deal with like, I can deal with it after the [00:21:44] Brett: you’re throwing up stomach acid on the regular. This isn’t, you’re, you can’t continue like this. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta pause [00:21:54] Christina: I can continue for a couple, I can continue for a couple of weeks. I can continue for a couple of weeks. [00:22:00] I’m not gonna go beyond that. Yes, Yes. As soon as, as soon as Universe is over, I will, I will get it taken care of. I will continue for a couple of weeks. In retrospect, I should not have agreed to also do Microsoft Ignite, which was so close to Universe. [00:22:14] That was too much. Um, I thought [00:22:18] Brett: be too much, even if you weren’t throwing up Stomach acid [00:22:21] Christina: No, you’re not wrong. Uh, [00:22:23] Brett: That’s a lot of, that’s a lot of being on a hole in a. [00:22:26] Christina: it’s a lot of being on and, and it was, uh, a lot of, um, meetings and stuff around it and juggling the two and, um, Yeah. Uh, they’re too close together. Um, I, I, I underestimated, like I overestimated my ability to do both cuz I was like, oh, well I’ve done so many of these hosting things that doing two of them their month apart. [00:22:54] That’s [00:22:54] Brett: do ’em in my sleep. [00:22:56] Christina: Right. Because I, I, there was a time when I was doing [00:23:00] a lot of these things, I think even like, probably in some cases a month apart. Um, cuz I think that I did, uh, build one year and then we had something. It was definitely, it was within the same period of time later, but in that case it was, it was, What was that? [00:23:14] Was that Inspire? It was tech. I don’t remember what it was, but it was one of those types of events and um, and so I just kind of was like, Oh yeah, I can totally do this. What I didn’t anticipate was, Just the level of involvement I would need for every facet of it, which makes sense. I just underestimated my ability to do it, and I should have said no. [00:23:34] Um, but, uh, [00:23:36] Brett: Overestimated your ability, [00:23:38] Christina: yes. Sorry, I overestimated ability, I under, I underestimated the amount of work it would be and I [00:23:42] Brett: I, I underestimate, I underestimate your ability all the time. And then you, you blow me away with what you can fucking accomplish and, and handle, um, in a day. Uh, but you overestimated your abilities. So, [00:23:57] Christina: And, and, and you, I am always blown away [00:24:00] by like what you do, whether you’re manic or not, like you’re one of the most creative and incisive and productive and talented people I’ve ever met, but, [00:24:08] Brett: thank you. [00:24:09] Christina: But, uh, yeah, so, so, no, but my mental health is, is okay. Um, I’ve just, I’ve been busy. I was in San Francisco this week, um, for a couple of days doing some prep stuff. [00:24:19] Um, and, and, uh, for, for universe, which, uh, which we’ll talk about after our sponsor break, but, um, because it’s gonna be good. But, um, I was, um, I was there. Seattle, right now, the weather, and this does impact my mental health, which is why I’m mentioning that we’ve had like, god awful levels of smoke. Like, um, like the air quality in some areas. [00:24:46] It, I was out of town, but, and, and it wasn’t this bad where I was like, but yesterday, where I live, it was a hundred points higher than Beijing. The air quality was like a hundred points worse. And, and Beijing is bad, so it was very, [00:25:00] very bad. Like, like, like you, you go outside, you’re wearing an N 95 mask, and you can still taste like, The air, right? [00:25:08] Yeah. Um, but somebody who, um, uh, I, I, uh, was talking to on Twitter, wherever they are in Washington State, it was like four 50, which to, to put that into perspective is again, that’s like, that’s like more than double as bad as Beijing, Right. Maybe closer to, Sorry, go [00:25:27] Brett: someone on my feed posted a picture, I’m pretty sure it was from Northern California or maybe farther up the coast. And they said that the air quality index was 500. Um, and like it made for some good pictures cuz it looked like a nice foggy morning, [00:25:48] Christina: Right. That’s the thing. No, it looks like, it looks like fog when I landed in the airport on, um, Wednesday. Like, you know, it looked like fog and it wasn’t, it was smoke. And then there was this [00:26:00] haze when I was, So the way that the um, Seattle airport works is that if you wanna get like an Uber or something, they have like this underground parking lot and of course it’s a little bit open, but, but not that much. [00:26:10] Right. You know, cuz cars can drive in, but it’s underground. And so you get underground and there’s this haze of just smoke that’s been caught up underground. Right. And it’s getting your eyes and everything. The whole thing is just terrible. But you know, the guy that, um, that I was saying on Twitter, he’s at his house. [00:26:27] He was like, even indoors, it was feeling like it was four 50. He was like, it’s just, you know, untenable. Because at that point, even if you have like a bunch of Dysons and air filters and stuff, like you’re, nothing’s, nothing’s working. I don’t even know what the solution there is. Like my solution when it gets hot here, because we don’t have Central Air because it’s fucking cheap ass building people luxury building my ass. [00:26:48] Anyway, they um, My solution there is just to run a hotel room. But in a case like this, I don’t even know, like would you, do you drive someplace? Like what, what do you [00:27:00] do? Like, I, I don’t know, but, um, [00:27:03] Brett: to Minnesota. [00:27:04] Christina: Yeah, [00:27:05] Brett: Nothing’s on fire here. As much as I, as much as I love the idea of living in California, uh, if I could afford it, um, the, the earthquakes and the fires and, and you know, the occasional flooding, we just don’t see that here in the Midwest. And we just, I don’t know, man. [00:27:29] Christina: you have really bad winters. But, [00:27:30] Brett: me wanna stay [00:27:31] Christina: no, I was gonna say you have really, really bad winters, but that’s about it, right? Like you don’t have the other [00:27:37] Brett: you can just make a fire and get cozy. It’s not, not the end of the world. [00:27:42] Christina: Well, I, I, I dunno. [00:27:44] Brett: disasters are [00:27:45] Christina: That’s true. I think, I think a lot of people though, would just have a hard time. Like I, I grew up, you know, I lived in New York for a long time and New York winners can be brutal, but, but they’re, but they’re not like 20 below where that can be the case, you know, in, in, um, in like Minnesota and [00:28:00] North [00:28:00] Brett: What is this? The Bahamas? We get 50 below [00:28:04] Christina: you know what I mean? Cause like, uh, my, my, my dad, um, he grew up all over the place, but he, like a lot of his formative years he spent in, um, North Dakota and, um, that was always like his favorite. I think like that also was probably like one of the only stable periods of kind of his childhood. And so I think he relates to that for a lot of reasons. [00:28:22] But this is, uh, but, but he always like, you know, whenever it would get cold, whenever it would snow in Georgia, like he’s like the most excited person in the world because, and it’s, it’s not even close to like, anything that you would experience, you know, [00:28:36] Brett: Well, I, I have nieces in Georgia and they get just ecstatic with like one to three inches of snow. And if they come to Minnesota to visit and it hasn’t snowed, they get super bummed. Like their ideal vacation is to come to Minnesota and have at least a foot of snow on the ground and they will make [00:29:00] snowmen [00:29:00] Christina: yeah. No, cuz it’s amazing when you’re not, when you have no concept of it, when it’s like an occasional thing. Like it really is like a nice treat. Um, but, uh, but yeah, no, I mean, look, I I, I, I rag on the, the Midwest a lot just because I don’t know why, honestly. Um, [00:29:17] Brett: Oh, it’s easy to do. [00:29:19] Christina: right. It is, it’s lazy, [00:29:21] Brett: I mean, in comparison to the East Coast and the West coast, the Midwest is, is boring. It’s, uh, passive aggressive. It’s cold there. It’s not a hub of any kind of tech or, or commerce. I mean, Minneapolis is home to what Target. And, and we have like Cray supercomputers Best Buy, but we don’t have any [00:29:49] Christina: and Best Buy is in Eden. So I don’t even know like how far away that is from Minneapolis, but I know it’s in Minnesota. But [00:29:55] Brett: I mean, I mean headquarters, like Target is headquartered in [00:30:00] Minneapolis. [00:30:00] Christina: no, I know, and I’m talking about Best Buys is like headquartered. [00:30:03] Brett: Okay. Yeah. Um, [00:30:05] Christina: I re I remember this from, from my years of indoctrination, uh, working there. [00:30:12] Brett: but 90% of the companies you care about are in California or New York, and there’s just then the flyover states, But I gotta say, I’m happy here and, [00:30:27] Christina: I’m glad you are. [00:30:28] Brett: it’s so cheap to live here. [00:30:30] Christina: Yeah, well see, this is, this is the problem, problem. The one part of the Midwest that I could see myself living in, the only part would be Chicago. [00:30:38] Brett: I could, Chicago’s. Alright. My mom has watched enough Fox news that she is convinced that Chicago is just a crime-ridden hellhole now, like an anarchist burnt out city [00:30:51] Christina: No, [00:30:52] Brett: amazing. It’s amazing. She’s also convinced that California is like all satanists and, [00:31:00] and it’s like the most evil state. Um, Fox News has done a number on her [00:31:05] Christina: Yeah. My, my, um, my shrink is deeply concerned about me living in Seattle because of all the Fox new stuff he saw about my neighborhood, actually. And the thing is, is that I was like, before the shootings and some of the other, like, before the, like, anarchists, like, like, uh, the, the, the fucking like occupy Wall Street, like, like fucking assholes kind of took over. [00:31:25] Brett: zone. [00:31:26] Christina: Well, right. Well, well, at first that was okay. And then when the fucking Occupy Wall Street, like fuckers took over and, and made it all about their bullshit. Yeah. Then I was kind of like, actually, yeah, this isn’t great. Um, so, so he’s concerned and, but he doesn’t need to be as concerned as he is, but he’s often, frequently concerned. [00:31:46] He’s like, Are you sure you’re safe? And I’m like, You never cared when I was in New York. Right. Like, which is the hilarious thing. Um, and to be clear, I actually did feel safer in New York than I do in my own neighborhood. Sometimes I’ll, I’ll [00:32:00] be honest. Yeah. More people, more eyes. There’s a certain sense, like, not to say there aren’t parts of New York where you wouldn’t feel deeply unsafe, but I think for the [00:32:09] Brett: that’s true. Like I, like there were definitely moments in New York where I felt, um, Like I was about to die, like, like death was imminent, but for the most part, there’s always someone you can reach out to for a hand. [00:32:27] Christina: there, that there’s a comfort in that. There’s, there, there’s a comfort in that. And, and I think that, that, that’s the thing where like, because Seattle, even though the neighborhood I live in is starting to pick back up again, especially during the pandemic, there were some times when literally the only people that were out were people that like, are, you know, uh, struggle with like mental health issues. [00:32:46] And, and, and, and drugs tend to be violent, right? Like that because of [00:32:51] Brett: walk down the street and see a lot of people that appear to be having like a conversation on their Bluetooth phone, uh, their Bluetooth [00:33:00] headset, and then you realize they don’t have a headset and they’re just conversing with that, That freaks me out. Like I see that even in the Midwest. Like you walk through Minneapolis, you’re gonna see that. [00:33:11] Um, but I, I remember, uh, New York my times in, uh, some of the uh, uh, Southern California smaller cities just had an excess of people having conversations loudly as they walked down the street. Um, and, and it, it, it makes me very nervous cuz I don’t know what to say to those people. I don’t want to interrupt them. [00:33:37] Christina: right? Well, right. I mean, [00:33:39] Brett: but then suddenly they’re talking to you and you’re like, No, go back to whoever you were talking to before. [00:33:46] Christina: right. Yeah. No, it, it can be unsettling and, and at night and it can be, especially sometimes people can be erratic and uh, and there can be like feelings where you’re just like, I don’t know, but I didn’t have in New York again, like it’s just, there’s always people around. So even if [00:34:00] you have that, There’s, it’s not just that. [00:34:03] And so there’s something that, that feels safer. Um, but, uh, it’s weird. Um, but yeah, but we should, uh, yeah. So anyway, that’s, that’s kinda my mental health update slash tangent. But we should [00:34:16] Brett: of finding doctors, [00:34:20] Christina: If, uh, [00:34:21] Brett: I wrote you a brand new intro for the ZO Doc. Read. You ready? [00:34:25] Christina: I, I am [00:34:26] Brett: Do it. Do it cold. [00:34:28] Sponsor: Zocdoc [00:34:28] Christina: alright. If you’re a fan of it, sushi’s incredible. But gas station sushi not so much. Finding the right sushi makes all the difference. And the same goes for finding the right doctor. 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You can read, verify patient reviews from real people who made real appointments. [00:35:28] And now when you walk into that doctor’s office, you’re all set to see someone in your network who gets you. So go to oc doc.com to find the doctor that is right for you and book an appointment in person or remotely that works for your schedule every month. Millions of people use OC Doc. I’m one of them. [00:35:45] I’ve been using them for well over a decade, is the way that I go to find doctors and, um, it, it’s, it’s great. So you can go to zocdoc.com/ Overtired and download the zocdoc app free. Then start your [00:36:00] search for a top rated doctor today mini are available within 24 hours. That’s zocdoc.com/ Overtired zocdoc.com/ Overtired. [00:36:12] Brett: Speaking of feeling safe in New York, [00:36:15] Christina: Yes. 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[00:38:05] It’s a GitHub Universe [00:38:05] Brett: So, yeah, I, I do want to hear what, uh, so right now, uh, Oracle Cloud World is wrapping up and I didn’t have to go, uh, friend of the show, Victor was, uh, there all week with the world’s largest pie cluster. Um, but I was, if I had gone, I would’ve had to help present topics that I wasn’t super comfortable with. [00:38:31] Um, and I also am, I’m so bummed about my current, like, physical shape that like, the idea of getting up in front of people is very nerve-wracking for me. Um, so anyway, I was glad not to have gone. I watched it from afar. I ran ground support for my team, uh, did all the blogging and everything, and Aaron did most of it, I’ll be honest. [00:38:57] Um, but, uh, [00:39:00] but it just was not. It was not super well attended. It was not super exciting. I had no reason to put up with Vegas in order to go, but GitHub universe, I think might be more my speed. So tell me what, what, what’s going on with GitHub Universe? [00:39:22] Christina: Yeah. So it sounds like Oracle, um, cloud world was a hybrid event. [00:39:27] Brett: Yeah. [00:39:27] Christina: that accurate? Okay, cool. So the GitHub universe is gonna be a hybrid event as well. Um, and, uh, this is the first time that GitHub has done a hybrid event, Microsoft Ignite, which I, I did a week before last. Um, or no, was it la It was last week. [00:39:40] It was last week. Um, was also a, um, hybrid event. But, um, the, um, uh, the way that this is gonna work is that we will be in person, um, in San Francisco. We are gonna be at the Europe Buena, uh, Center for the Arts, which is right across the street from Moscone. So it’s a [00:40:00] smaller space, the Moscone, which I think is good because especially our first year back, uh, Philly Moscone would be difficult and, and that. [00:40:07] Brett: a tea garden in there that I love. Yes. [00:40:10] Christina: Yeah. So we’re gonna be at the, the Europe of Awareness Center for the Arts, um, which is across the street, and we’re gonna be actually in a lot of that space. Um, we, uh, I, part of that thing I was kind of, uh, doing while I was there was getting, um, kind of a preview of what some of, what the layout is going to be and how things are going to look. [00:40:28] But we’re going to have a bunch of different installations. I can’t spoil too much about the physical experience. Um, if people wanna buy tickets, they’re still available. It’s November 9th and 10th, um, and. Uh, there’s gonna be like an outdoor stage, uh, that we’re calling the, like the garden stage where, where me and my, uh, uh, one of my co-hosts and one will be, uh, MCing the event and introducing different sessions and tracks and stuff. [00:40:52] And, um, uh, my, uh, my pal Damian is also going to be one of our roaming hosts. And then we’ve got a bunch of different [00:41:00] sessions that are happening across five different tracks. So, um, there’s, you know, uh, the, the schedule is online right now. It’s at GitHub universe.com where you can see what’s going to be happening. [00:41:10] But we’ve got like our, kind of our main track and then there’s, um, different tracks on cloud, security, AI, and community. And so, There are gonna be things like, uh, you know, stuff about, you know, using, uh, code spaces, um, and, uh, GitHub co-pilot, GitHub actions. Um, stuff about, um, you know, using, uh, ai, which obviously co-pilot is, is involved with, um, you know, how, how GitHub builds GitHub, which I actually think is that, that’s a cool session that I’m actually really looking forward to watching because, uh, I think that’s cool. [00:41:46] There’s also one on how GitHub uses GitHub to secure GitHub. I love all the inception stuff. Um, there’s like a bunch of stuff about like community and, and open source and sustainability and kind of, um, Thinking about what we [00:42:00] can do both like as Skid hub, but also as just people in the ecosystem to make things better for maintainers. [00:42:07] And um, uh, you know, there, there are workshops as well, um, for people who wanna get like more in depth training on things. So, uh, but the cool thing is, is that if you can’t be there in person, and I think in person, they’re one of the main benefits is that you get to like, meet people and like, have conversations. [00:42:25] Like it’s not just the content, all of the. It can be great in seeing people live can be fun. I think the big thing for me always is like getting to actually have those similar to like those things you have at Mac stock, right? Where it’s like having the call, the hallway conversations, being able to run into people and have those experiences can be really, really good. [00:42:43] But everything will be streamed@githubuniverse.com. So, um, you know, go there, register, you should not get too many like marketing spammy emails. Uh, but, uh, they do want people registered to be able to view all the content and then everything of course will be on [00:43:00] demand later. But, um, I’m, I’m super, super stoked. [00:43:03] The, just the stuff I can, I can say I can, I don’t wanna ruin too much, but I can say like the, the mockups and the things I’ve seen of what the event space is going to look like is awesome. And, and they’ve, they’ve really outdone themselves and that’s that shit that, that, uh, that is exciting. [00:43:21] I would love to see you there and I think [00:43:23] Brett: I would get to hang out with Christina Warren. Maybe I’ll bring a, I’ll bring a mic set up and we can do a live podcast from GitHub Universe. [00:43:33] Christina: Okay. That we could. And that would be amazing. And, um, at least a segment. Right? Not a full thing. Um, or at the very least we could do it from the hotel. But yeah, I, um, I, um, I’m super excited. It’s gonna be a really good event. I had such a good time at Get Merge last month and I’m really, really excited about this just to be able to meet people in the community. [00:43:56] I did a live stream cuz. Um, have you guys been doing anything with, with [00:44:00] Hack Tober Fest? Um, at. [00:44:03] Brett: Not, no, I, No. [00:44:05] Christina: Okay, so Oktoberfest is, is, um, a month in, um, it’s October. It takes place every October. And Digital Ocean sponsors that. It’s a digital ocean thing that’s basically dedicated to trying to like, you know, um, bring awareness and, and get people to contribute more to open source. And they do that by like giving, like, giving people opportunity to like win a t-shirt and stuff like that. [00:44:26] And there, there’s been drama in the past because what people used to do is they’d be like, Hey, if you wanna get a free, you know, t-shirt, just make this really shitty pull request to these open source projects. You know, like for a typo or something. And, and, and, and you’ll get a t-shirt. And then, you know, maintainers are like, you say that this is supposed. [00:44:48] Better for us all. And you’re, you’re, you’re ruining our lives. So, so, um, we worked out a thing a couple years ago where basically like only projects that tag themselves, you know, [00:45:00] as, as being, you know, uh, Hack Tober Fest eligible, um, would be eligible for the T-shirt. But I’ve been doing, you know, we’ve been doing some C live streams and talks up that they’re people and, um, uh, are you, are you familiar with the charm? [00:45:13] I’ve talked about them on the, on the pod before? Yeah. So I, I did a, a livestream yesterday with some members of the charm team and also, um, uh, te, who’s one of the Neo Im, um, core, uh, contributors. And, um, we were talking about sustainability and open source. It was a really fun conversation, and that got me really hype for Universe because I know that it’s gonna. [00:45:34] More opportunities to talk to people like that. And I don’t know, like the thing that makes me the most excited about my job, not just, I love where I work and I, I love the stuff that we’d build, but beyond that is just like getting to meet other people who work on such cool shit, you know, [00:45:50] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. [00:45:51] Christina: Like, I love that. Yeah. And, and those, those are people who will be at Universe, right? Like it’s, it’s really, I don’t know. I’m, [00:46:00] I’m, I’m stoked. [00:46:01] Brett: That was always my absolute favorite part of Mac World, uh, was meeting the indie developers and meeting the people. I’ve used your app. Holy shit. I’m meeting you in person. Like the first time I met Fletcher Penny, like the creator of multi markdown. I was, I felt like starstruck. Uh, like now we’re friends, now we’re working together [00:46:25] Christina: Now you’re working together on a [00:46:26] Brett: then I was like, holy shit. [00:46:28] The guy who made multi markdown is having a beer with me. [00:46:32] Christina: When I met Cable and Steven from Panic for the first time, I mean, I was starstruck. I, I, I’ve, and, and I’ve said this to people before and people think I’m crazy, but it’s true. I’ve met big fucking deal celebrities, right? I’ve interviewed them and, and it’s nice and I’ve been starstruck a few times, but I, I don’t know if I’ve ever been quite as like Stars Shark as when I meet people who make the shit that I use and that I love, right. [00:46:58] Like that to me. [00:47:00] I’m a weirdo, I guess, but like, to me, like that’s even, and I love pop culture and like, not to say that if I met Taylor Swift in person, I wouldn’t fucking die. And I did. And I will say the most star struck I’ve ever been in my life was when I cried, when I met Big Bird. When I met, um, um, Harold Spinney. [00:47:15] Um, he was, he was, uh, doing a, an Oscar the Grouch thing. And it was amazing. And he was so kind. And I, I fucking sobbed like, like a baby because my childhood, I did the same thing when I met the current Burt. But like, I, uh, when meeting people who make the stuff that you use, there’s just, it’s awesome. [00:47:35] Brett: Speaking of idle worshiping indie developers, uh, you ready to do some gratitude? [00:47:41] Christina: I’m ready to do some Capt. [00:47:43] Brett: So this week I’m picking curio, uh, from Zen Gobi. Uh, I met George, uh, years ago at a Mac world. And, and it was one of those things where I felt, um, [00:48:00] Curio is such a crazy in-depth app, uh, that it really, it speaks to the way that I create things where I just, I want it to, once it can do one thing, I want it to do another thing. [00:48:14] And, and then I just try to build it as elegantly as possible. Uh, just make it do everything. And Curio is one of those apps that, um, it lets you create these spaces that. Visual, almost like idea boards where you can combine, mind maps and lists and preview documents and, and I embed emails and, add free form text and add, tasks and lists and project management stuff. [00:48:47] All in this kind of like visual space. And then you can easily search and jump between and use like, uh, unified project management tools across all your spaces. And [00:49:00] it is, it’s kind of insane what it can do. And every time it comes out with an update, which is pretty much yearly at this point, um, he does something that makes me say, Holy shit, that’s awesome. [00:49:15] I don’t use curio every day, but when I am putting together an idea or a larger project, curio is one of my favorite ways to organize all of the inputs, all of the, uh, various, uh, like when you’re researching something and you just wanna co compile like a bunch of different websites, a bunch of different, uh, like markdown texts and a bunch of different lists, uh, it’s a super great way. [00:49:42] And, um, you can actually preview a curio space in marked so you can convert your curio space and all of its, all of its markdown and, and mind map content into like a single [00:50:00] unified document that you can then like read through in a very left to right top to bottom fashion. Uh, whereas curio is, you can spread stuff in any direction all over the space. [00:50:10] Um, But it’s super easy to export it as, uh, usable documents of other types. So yeah, I pick, I pick curio from Zen Gobi. That is, it’s an insanely cool India. [00:50:26] Christina: Yeah, no, this looks great. I, um, I’m, I’m gonna like check this out. Um, which one do you use? Because I’m seeing that there are like three different options. There’s core, there’s standard, and then there’s, uh, professional. Which one do you use? [00:50:38] Brett: I’m a friend of the developer. I get professional for free. [00:50:43] Christina: Nice. Okay. Um, cuz I was just trying to figure out like, like what, uh, what option would be best. I, I’m probably just gonna download the trial and. [00:50:52] Brett: you what, friend of the show, I’ll get you a, a pro license. No problem. I got, I got the connect. [00:50:58] Christina: You got the connect. [00:51:00] I love it. No, but I’m actually, I’m really, really looking forward to trying this out cuz um, I use, uh, obsidian for some stuff like this, but I think for a lot of things like where you need a lot of different types of stuff. Like, again, like I, I probably wouldn’t use this every day, but when starting on a big project. [00:51:17] Brett: for text, but if you want anything more than text, curio is just the bomb. [00:51:23] Christina: what I’m saying. Like, and the thing is, is that again, if I can have my markdown stuff, like, you know Yeah. The fact that I can bring in PDFs and multimedia and all that, No, this looks great. This looks kind of like what I wish, in some ways OneNote was cuz OneNote’s not bad. Like OneNote’s not terrible. [00:51:39] I actually have to say like a for in terms of like, I actually had this, Sorry, go on. [00:51:43] Brett: the only problem with one notice, the lock in, like stuff is not easily, uh, portable to other, other types of, of software. [00:51:54] Christina: Agreed. Agreed. And, and it also looks like this is, has like, you know, it has some [00:52:00] CanBan style things and other stuff like that. You don’t get those options in in OneNote and OneNote. Like at this point I think OneNote is way better than, um, than Evernote, right? Like, sorry, not sorry. Like, like Evernote is shit, the bed a long time ago. [00:52:13] And, and, and one note is significantly better. It’s free for most use cases than if you have a, an office account at all. Um, it’s, uh, you, you get. You know, even more stuff I guess, or whatnot, but, but OneNote is awesome, but this looks like this could take things to the next level, which I really, really could get some use out of. [00:52:33] Um, so my pick, so I’m checking that out. Thank you very much for, uh, hooking me up on that. So my pick is menu bar X, and this is one that I, I will be honest, I, it’s, it’s part of setup. I’d never used it and it was probably one that I would’ve dismissed. And then I was watching a video from, uh, from Quinn Nelson Snaq, and he was doing like something on like top, like free, like something about Mac apps or something like that. [00:52:59] And, and I [00:53:00] was like, I watched the video, then I was like, I’m probably not gonna see anything that I haven’t seen before. And then I did, uh, because Quinn makes great content. And so the idea between Menu Bar X is, um, it’s, it’s available, like I said, in set up. It’s also available directly from, um, the developer, which I believe is, is Sixx Studio, but it’s at Menu bar. [00:53:21] x.apple have the links in the show [00:53:23] Brett: Also Mac App Store. [00:53:25] Christina: Yeah. It’s also in the Mac app store. Um, so what’s cool about it is it basically creates like a, a web app or PWA progressive web app, um, in your menu bar so that you can then, um, quickly access that from anywhere. So for instance, I’ll say this, I still occasionally have to deal with some Microsoft stuff, um, on some of my machines. [00:53:51] Um, even though I, I don’t work for Microsoft Property anymore, and, and GitHub uses completely different tooling. There are still times when I need to [00:54:00] log into those systems. The problem is I don’t always want to have the, the apps installed because they’re not always well optimized and I would need to have stuff, um, you know, like always running in the background. [00:54:12] Dropbox actually is a good example of this too, because Dropbox, even though. It’s gotten better. Uh, it’s still sort of a resource hog and I don’t love it and I don’t use it the way that I used to. So you can have these things running in the background for just kind of occasional use cases. Like I’ve got one for my personal OneDrive account because I access that occasionally, and I can just access the, the, the, the web view in my menu bar with, with a menu bar X. [00:54:38] You could also do things like YouTube or Instagram or TikTok or whatever. But the thing that got me on it was I was like, Oh no, I can actually use this for file sharing services. Like, like One Drive. I could have my work, one drive for the few times that I need to use that a week. I don’t wanna have it running all the time when I’m only interacting with it sparingly. [00:54:56] And, um, and, and Menu Barx is really great for that. So [00:55:00] that’s my pick because, uh, it’s a really good way of being able to just kind of like, create, you know, little web app things and your menu bar. Um, it’s, it’s slick and it works really [00:55:14] Brett: I, uh, I just, while you were talking, I installed it, it won’t let me log into SoundCloud. It says there’s an ad locker that’s stopping it, but, um, like it was like one click to add a SoundCloud single site browser to my menu bar. Uh, if I can get it to let me log in, that’ll be awesome. Um, yeah, this is great. [00:55:36] Like I love single site browsers. I love them for. Uh, corralling cookie usage. Um, I love them for easy accessibility. If like, I have one that I, I have my own single site browser for Messenger cuz I refuse to use their desktop app. Um, and, and, uh, uh, bunch can actually [00:56:00] create single site browsers. Um, you can add just a command to a bunch file that’ll automatically create an SSB for any site. [00:56:09] Uh, but this is, this is snazzy. Do you remember Fluid? [00:56:13] Christina: Yeah, fluid was amazing. I loved fluid so much. Flu fluid was [00:56:16] Brett: And, and Fluid had a pin to menu bar option. So you could create a single site browser, pin it to the menu bar. It could run a bunch of like, uh, user scripts and, and [00:56:28] Christina: that, that’s what I, [00:56:29] Brett: and everything. [00:56:29] Christina: that’s what I loved about fluid because, uh, I would have user script stuff and you could do notifications and like fluid was, was really great. And I don’t think this gets that in depth, but sometimes for the, for the, for my use case for like, what I would be like using it with, I, I didn’t, I wouldn’t want that. [00:56:43] Right. Like, I just need something in the menu bar and, um, and, and I, Yeah. But fluid is amazing. There’s also, what is it? Is it, uh, is it unite? There’s like [00:56:52] Brett: yeah. Unite, Coherence and Unite are from the same company. Um, I, [00:57:00] they, they make great little SSBs and you can load all of your Chrome plugins, uh, selectively in the ssb. But I’ve had this problem where I create like a Unite browser. For a site and then a month later it just stops being able to launch and I have to recreate it from scratch. [00:57:20] I have to delete it and recreate it. And, and I have ne I’ve never filed a bug report cuz it’s never been super important to me. Um, I have like, they’re good apps. I, I have had some frustration. Um, the, I’m gonna give menu bar x a shot, uh, for anyone on Set app. It takes five seconds to install and another 10 seconds to build your first menu bar browser. [00:57:47] So this is pretty cool. [00:57:48] Christina: Yeah, and what’s nice about it too is that it has a really easy option to then just like open it in a web browser if you want. It’s, it’s. So like, that’s really nice. So if you did wanna [00:58:00] like, have something and you’re like, Hey, I do actually wanna like open this in, um, you know, my, my browser window, like you can do that. [00:58:07] Uh, and which, which, which is like, you can also change the view port style, like the user agent and stuff in terms of like what it’s going to, to show you. And you can even detach the window if you wanna do that. So there’s, there’s a lot of options, you know, around, but I, uh, shout to Quinn Nelson for, uh, sharing that with me. [00:58:26] But then I tried it on, I was like, Oh no, this is actually really useful. So yeah, give this a shot because I miss flew it all the time. And that was definitely like the, the, the greatest of all time. But, um, this, uh, this I think is, at least for kind of the ways I’ve, I’ve been using it, it’s been really good so far. [00:58:43] So [00:58:44] Brett: Why have I forgotten the name of the guy who made fluid? Like he’s another person. I’m Todd Todd. Um, [00:58:50] Christina: D [00:58:52] Brett: um, Ditch Endorf, [00:58:53] Christina: Dish. Endorf. [00:58:54] Brett: wasn’t it? Yeah. Um, I met him at, uh, Mac, Mac [00:59:00] World as well, and it was, uh, one of those experiences. Yes. [00:59:06] Christina: Same. Same. [00:59:08] Brett: Quinn Nelson, digital content creator in the show notes. [00:59:11] Christina: Yeah. We love, we love Snazzy q his, his videos are really good. Uh, yeah. So, so that’s, that’s my gratitude. [00:59:19] Brett: Awesome. Well, that wasn’t as weird an episode as I thought it would be at the outset. [00:59:24] Christina: No, no, it, its [00:59:26] Brett: was a, it was pretty sane. [00:59:28] Christina: Yeah, it’s pretty sane. It’s pretty good. Um, everybody should, should watch, uh, Taylor Swift’s new video, Anti-Hero. Um, we’re gonna have a whole Taylor Swift episode next week, but, uh, the anti-hero music video, um, Maria, Elizabeth, uh, Ellis or whatever, what’s her face? The, the, the waitress from Always Sunny is, is in the video. [00:59:46] Brett: Nice. Yeah. Um, Oh, that is who that was. Yes. Okay. Yeah, that was a weird little, uh, break at the end of that video [00:59:56] Christina: there’s a weird little, There’s a, there’s a, [00:59:59] Brett: apparently Taylor Swift [01:00:00] is everyone’s mother [01:00:01] Christina: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I guess. But yeah, cuz the song, uh, is, the song is pretty great, I have to say. And, uh, it, it’s one of my favorites. Um, and, uh, she’s like, Hi, I’m the problem. It’s me. Um, which is, which is pretty fucking great. Uh, and, uh, I, I’m, I’m a big, big, big fan of that. Um, but there’s an interlude, well there’s, there’s a thing where she’s like, I have like this like dream where like my, my daughter-in-law kills me to steal my money. [01:00:29] And then like, you know, I’m, I’m screaming, Fuck you from the grave, Or, or you know, from the ground, you know, from um, uh, you know, from, from hell or whatever. And, uh, then there’s like this very funny sequence that, uh, yeah, [01:00:45] Brett: We will. I I will, I will watch it again before next week. We’ll, we will force Jeff into this madness and, and we will, Next week will be a Taylor Swift Happy episode. It [01:01:00] won’t be all Taylor’s [01:01:01] Christina: No, it won’t be all Taylor. It won’t be all Taylor Swift, but we, well, we have to talk about it because there’s, there’s a song at the end that’s, it’s the final one and it’s called Mastermind and we have to talk about it. Um, it, because Brett like, it confirms many of the theories that I’ve spent hours of our podcast overanalyzing analyzing about Taylor. [01:01:20] So we have to talk about it, but also it’s a fun album. So, uh, stream, Stream Mastermind or midnights, whatever. Um, I’m, see now, now I’m tired. [01:01:31] Brett: Let’s do a quick recap for the socials today. We talked about, we had a great discussion of, uh, of bipolar as we often do, but we talked about Ellen Forney and, and some of my hopes and dreams for the future. Uh, we talked about GitHub Universe and why Brett wants to go to GitHub Universe. Uh, we got some amazing, uh, uh, Mac app picks.[01:02:00] [01:02:00] Uh, we got Kario and your menu bar X, so if you wanna learn more about those, make sure you tune in. Um, of course I say that as if people currently listening to the podcast haven’t already tuned in. I’m sorry, I got, I got into like social media mode there, but, um, yeah, anything you want to add? [01:02:19] Christina: Yeah, no, great, great Mac outs. GitHub universe. Good mental health Corner. I think it’s a, it’s a solid opposite. A little bit of Taylor Swift. Not enough, but not enough, but a little bit of Taylor Swift. [01:02:30] Brett: More soon. All right, Christina, Get some sleep. [01:02:36] Christina: Get some sleep right.

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Show Links Reboot Heartbreak High The Perks of Being a Wallflower and movie Derry Girls Sex Education Grapptitude Choosy Velja Obsidian Shortcat Paletro Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jeffreyguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript High Content/Low Energy [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren, joined as always by my good friends. Jeffrey Severance, Gunzel and Brett Terpstra Boys. How are ya? [00:00:15] Brett: So good. [00:00:16] Jeff: Hello. [00:00:16] Christina: Hi. So we are recording this a little bit later than we usually do in the week, uh, ironically, because we’ve all had kind of things going on and, um, all of us are, if this is gonna maybe be a little bit of kind of a low energy show, but not low content, uh, just because we are all tired, [00:00:37] Brett: same amount of content, just slower [00:00:40] Jeff: No, I think we got a new, that’s a new like tagline. High content, low energy. [00:00:44] Christina: Okay. I don’t hate that. I don’t hate that at all. [00:00:47] Jeff: I can see the shirt. [00:00:49] Brett: like that’s a drink. White Russian, high content, low energy. [00:00:56] Jeff: Oh man, I used to, I was never a heavy drinker, but when I was in a band and playing a lot, playing shows a lot, I realized that if I had a white Russian and two green belt beers, which for non Minnesotans is just pick your piss beer. But we’re loyal to it. If I had that combination of drink, I would go into the show without having to stretch cuz that’d just be a little looser. [00:01:20] generally. And by the time the show was over, I was no longer drunk and, or it buzzed or whatever. And I really, I got like science, it was a scientific thing, a white Russian, and two grain belt premiums. And I’d go into the show, a barrel of laughs, and come out pretty sober and ready to go to sleep. [00:01:39] Brett: Yeah, my first time in a bar I was like, I think 17. Maybe 18. And I didn’t, I didn’t know any drinks to order. Like I had no experience with this. And white Russian was the only drink I had ever heard of and that was the night I discovered there’s also a black Russian, [00:02:01] Jeff: Oh yeah, [00:02:02] Brett: in a black Russian, but I liked it better. [00:02:05] Jeff: They make canned white Russians. I mean, they like make a lot of canned cocktails, but there’s the mental health check in right there Mental Health Corner [00:02:17] Brett: So should we roll into a, a mental health corner? Are we, are we high enough energy to do that? [00:02:22] Christina: Totally do that. [00:02:23] Brett: Okay. Who wants to start [00:02:25] Jeff: Uh, I can start. [00:02:26] Brett: to it please. [00:02:28] Jeff: Um, my family had a medical emergency over the last week and I spent some time in the, um, In the hospital in like the nicest hospital room. It was amazing. They had a we, [00:02:39] Christina: Oh my God. [00:02:39] Jeff: if you wanted an Xbox or a PlayStation, you could get that instead. Um, and they had like a blue-ray player and a giant TV that was really high quality. [00:02:50] There were actually three TVs in the room. It was the craziest thing ever saw. Um, I know when I, when my mom was my mom, Was in a coma in the ICU for a couple weeks, two years ago, maybe three years ago, and I, the entire time she was there for two weeks, I couldn’t get a folding chair, but this hospital room had a couch that turned into a bed, a recliner, two regular chairs. [00:03:13] It was like, Oh, like wow. It’s just like such a crapshoot. It’s amazing. Anyway, but the, we was kind of amazing. Um, my, so it’s always strange to be in and out of a hospital room over the course of a week. It definitely causes me to lose the ground from under my feet. Um, and, uh, and so that’s, that’s pretty much how I am feeling is, uh, without any ground under my feet. [00:03:39] Um, and it also is like my brain is trying to kind of figure out where to sort some hard news out of this family emergency. Um, and it’s just, it’s like, it feels like two things at once. It feels. brain can’t sort it, but it also feels like, I know that there’s a part of me that’s very emotional about this, like, but I can’t quite get through the membrane to get my hands on it. [00:04:11] Um, and so it just feels like, like I’m at a distance from the kind of true feelings of the thing. And that always scares me a little bit because I can, I can, I’m someone who can easily get kind of disembodied where like I feel a lot of my stress in my head, but I don’t really feel anything else in the rest of my body. [00:04:29] It’s like, everything’s just like, it’s like so symbolically perfect cuz I’m in my head and, and all of the discomfort is also in my head. And I think when I’m, when I think of settling things, settling in, I literally think of him like trickling down from my head into the rest of my body. And that’s something I’m struggling with right now after just getting some hard news this week. [00:04:51] So. So that’s it. [00:04:54] Brett: so I, I saw a therapist this week and I saw my psychiatrist this week. And, um, I have come to believe that what I, you know, how I check in is stable sometimes, but I’m fucking bored. Um, and, and not, not doing great like, like stable, what I’ve called stable has never been great for me. Um, I also saw a talk from a bipolar cartoonist this last week who came to speak at a local college. [00:05:27] Um, and. I realized maybe like, so there’s bipolar one, bipolar two, then there’s this other thing that starts with C Y C L, Cyclo EMIA or something like that. And I realized that might be me. Like I might not be bipolar two, as I had always assumed I may be this thing that alternates between hypomania and depression and rapid succession and never sees like a real stable in between. [00:05:59] So what I’ve always called stable might be depression. and like, So my new goal after talking to psychiatrist and therapist is to find out what stable actually can be and like to reframe. Like, I’ve always been scared of finding stability because in my experience, stability had been something just infinitely boring and without any creative, uh, or productivity, like, just not the way I wanted to live. [00:06:34] Uh, but that might be depression for me and I might be able to find a stable where I’m actually happy, where I experience like normal human happiness, not like manic euphoria. Just like, uh, an interest in doing, like going for a hike, going for, uh, a good dinner, um, and really finding pleasure in those things without having to be manic. [00:07:04] Um, and so that’s kind of, that’s rocked my worldview, if you will, um, to, to realize maybe there’s something that I haven’t experienced that I could strive for. Uh, so we started looking into ways that I can. Reach that stability, uh, without losing all of the things I love about hypomania, uh, without losing my creativity, my, my drive to create new things. [00:07:36] Um, to maybe find that and be stable because this, this bipolar cartoonist, um, I would have to look up her name ho give me one second, uh, edit. Um, she wrote a book called Marbles and one called Rock Steady, and her name is Ellen Forney. Um, and she was, she was an excellent presenter. It was like going, Do you guys know who the blog is? [00:08:07] Is. Um, she is a, uh, a blogger who is, I can’t remember exactly what her neuro divergence is, but her level of anxiety and, uh, sarcasm combines to make really amazing, Like she’s written a couple books, uh, and, and she has always spoken to me as, as a neuro divergent person. But, uh, Ellen Forney, like really when she presented, uh, she did it so humbly, uh, well, basically saying like, I have suffered through. [00:08:48] Extreme mania and extreme depression. And I’ve come out as this, this is what I’ve produced, this is what I’ve learned from the process. And it was, I cried a little listening to her just because I related and I could feel like the pain of what she had gone through and, and the fact that she had come out on the other end and had found stability and had been able to continue creating as a stable person was like joyous to me. [00:09:23] And it’s given me something new to strive for. [00:09:26] Christina: That’s really great. [00:09:28] Jeff: I feel like you’re, you’re in the, there’s this whole category of experience when something changes in your life or when or when something is removed, um, either by choice or or not. And you ask yourself the question, What am I without X? Right? [00:09:46] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:09:47] Jeff: it seems like you’ve been, you’ve been asking that question and what you just described sounds like it’s like a pathway to an answer, which is awesome. [00:09:53] Brett: Yeah, my therapist described it as like, so you’re sitting in a room and your mania is sitting in this chair and your depression is sitting in this chair, and they are your old friends like you. You need to choose whether you’re gonna say goodbye to them or whether you’re going to manage them, or like how you’re going to define this relationship with these external beings. [00:10:19] And that, that kind of ranked true for me, like this idea that my mania was almost this external thing that I associated with, that I related to, uh, that I, I wanted in my life. So I, yeah, I have some shit to figure out, uh, as far as this relationship goes with my bipolar. Um, but yeah, this new idea of maybe happiness, instability, that could be, that could be cool. [00:10:50] Jeff: Yeah, [00:10:52] Christina: I think that’s, that’s, I think that could be amazing actually. [00:10:54] Brett: I’ll keep you posted. Okay. [00:10:58] Christina: So for me, mine, um, I mean I’ve been, so I, I was hosting, uh, Microsoft at night this week and we might talk a little bit about some of the stuff that was announced there. Cause some of it was, was actually interesting. A lot of it is just like enterprise. Kind of stuff that’ll appeal to a certain segment of our audience, but not most of it. But, um, but that was, it was, it was fun. I haven’t, um, done, um, a hosting thing like with Microsoft since I left Microsoft. And, um, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m still, you know, part of kind of like the, the family so to speak. [00:11:28] You know, I work at GitHub and so I’m doing universe next month, which, uh, November 9th and 10th in, uh, uh, San Francisco. So if you are there and you see me obviously say hello, uh, we have a rule on a rocket where if we see listeners in real life, I buy them a drink. But that also applies to Overtired listeners, and it does not need to be an alcoholic drink. [00:11:49] I’ll buy you, you know, smoothie or coffee or whatever the case may be. Um, but uh, just throwing that out there, I’m very low probability that anyone who listens to this podcast will be at GitHub Universe, but you never know. Um, also, uh, register and join us online for free. That’s end of my plugging. And, um, So, but no, but I was doing that and it was, it was fun, but it was also kind of weird. [00:12:11] I was like kind of back, you know, in this, in this world a little bit that I hadn’t been in. And, um, I had been a little bit disconnected from a lot of the process of actually, uh, you know, kind of the, the day to day stuff of like, I didn’t really know what content was gonna be involved and I wasn’t super involved in the script writing. [00:12:28] And so I really was kind of, Hired talent who wasn’t, you know, paid. Um, the, the guy that, um, so we had, it was a hybrid event, so there were people in, um, Seattle at the Seattle Convention Center, which is incidentally like a five or six minute walk from my apartment. Uh, I had to go, you know, half an hour away to Redmond, the Microsoft campus, the studios record there. [00:12:51] But we did have a bunch of people in person doing stuff. Um, and then there were some local events happening at the same time in, in various parts of the world. Uh, but it was me and this guy Brian Tong, who’s a, uh, YouTuber, used to work at cnet. Now he has his own YouTube channel and he’s an independent guy. [00:13:07] We were the two people hosting. From, um, uh, main studios and we had, we did some interviews and some other stuff, but a lot of it was just kind of introducing packages and going to the next, you know, bits of segments and things like that. But, um, it was fun. I, I got to see some people, um, who came out, you know, for the event in person at, at, um, like kind of a community kind of meet meetup thing that was in my neighborhood. [00:13:31] Um, I was not able to go in person to see anything because I was too far away and I was literally on air the whole time that everything was happening. But it was, uh, my mental health is, is good. I guess. It was, it was, it was weird though. It was like, you know, you go back and I, it’s almost like, you know, when you go back and you like visit like a school after you’ve graduated or left and you see, you know, people and I certainly like, it wasn’t the same thing cuz I was still like doing, you know, a job and was, was hosting and whatnot. [00:14:01] But, you know, it’s, it’s like not my, my life anymore really. Right. Like, it might be for a couple weeks out of the year, but, You know, I, I was coming in, you know, as, as kind of like somebody who was disconnected from the normal process. And because work is so entwined with my identity in a lot of ways, kind of what you were talking about a little bit, Brett, um, uh, you know, I, for me, it’s not anything to do with my, my, my mental health or, or my neuro, but work has for better or worse been like a, a big definer of, of how I kind of see myself. [00:14:35] Um, probably for worse, to be honest. It was, it was interesting to be back in kind of a, a place and be like, Oh, this isn’t necessarily my identity anymore. Um, but you know, you still have like this muscle memory of being able to kind of jump in and, and do it and, uh, you know, um, bullshit and ask some of the, the questions if you need to about stuff that, like, I don’t think about every day anymore, right? [00:15:01] Uh [00:15:02] Brett: is it muscle memory? Cause I, I watch some of the stuff you [00:15:06] Christina: mm-hmm. [00:15:07] Brett: and like, when we do this podcast, if we’re having a rough day, we can come on and we can say, I’m having a rough day. It’s gonna be, it’s gonna be slow. Um, I’m super tired. You don’t get to do that when you are [00:15:20] Christina: no, no, no. [00:15:22] Brett: to just flip a switch and just be on, Cause I, I have trouble imagining that for myself. [00:15:28] Christina: yeah. I, I am And that actually, that’s actually, Thank you for bringing it back for the mental health thing. That is a struggle because, and this is what I think people don’t understand sometimes about those types of roles, because you have to be on, and not only are you on when the camera’s on, you need to be on, when you’re not on, you know, because you need to be nice to the crew and the execs. [00:15:50] And then if you’re going to the community meetups and the other things that are happening around these things, you have to be on there too. Like I was commiserating with them, a former colleague of mine, I know we were talking about like a lot of people are like, Oh, you know, your spouse would never go on these trips with you. [00:16:03] And I’m like, Well, it’s not a vacation. Right? Like if, if he came at the end of the trip on his own dime and then we, I took time off and we stayed a few extra days in the city. Sure. But when you go to these things, yeah, you might have a day or two that you can get around to do site scene, but it is not a vacation. [00:16:23] And beyond that, even when you have those little pockets you can carve out for yourself, you still have to be on at all times. And it can be really draining. And I consider myself a social person, right? Like I consider myself an extrovert, but it can still be really draining. And then a scenario like this, when you’re doing the hosting stuff, we are live, there are some pre-records, um, but even those, they like to do them in one shot. [00:16:47] But we are live. And, and you have like a camera crew and you can’t just mess up. If you do, you’ve gotta kind of joke at yourself and then move on. But like, it is the same as doing like live television, where you’ve gotta be on, you’ve gotta have the energy. It doesn’t matter that you, you know, woke up at four 30 in the morning and have been there since, you know, 6:00 AM and um, this is your third day in a row of doing a 12 hour day and you’re exhausted. [00:17:12] Like you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta look and have the energy and bring it on and, and do this stuff, and you don’t have any way to not do it. And so I think a lot of people, they think, Oh, it must be so easy just reading off a teleprompter. And it’s like, no, it’s actually not. It’s both emotionally and mentally. [00:17:28] There’s a lot that goes into it. And then beyond that, like not everybody has the personality type for it. Uh, and, and, and not everybody would enjoy doing it. And I do enjoy doing it, but when I do it, like days like this, like a day after, I’m coming off of like a three day bender where I’m just like, Fuck. [00:17:45] You know, I’m, after we finish doing Overtired, like, and I finish uploading the latest episode to the download to, uh, to YouTube and, and get that up. Like, I’m just gonna like, take an edible and like piece out for the rest of the weekend. [00:17:59] Brett: Have you seen the show, uh, reboot? [00:18:02] Christina: No. [00:18:03] Brett: Um, it’s, it’s got Keegan Michael Key in it. I [00:18:07] Christina: Oh, okay. Love him. [00:18:08] Brett: actors, but you would know all of them. Uh, it’s got the jackass dude, uh, [00:18:13] Christina: Johnny Knoxville. Johnny Knoxville? Yeah. [00:18:16] Brett: Um, and there’s just, there’s a moment where she has just received like very troubling personal news and then they call. Like she’s on and she has to walk from, It’s about, it’s about a TV show. It’s about a Hulu, Hulu TV show. And like she’s backstage and all of a sudden it’s her, it’s her time for a line. And she has to drop from this like, extremely emotional moment, like, of like anger and sadness and just smile and walk out into a sitcom television set and deliver her line. [00:18:53] And I’m like that, that remind, It made me think of you, Christina, because I know you go through some shit. I know like life is not perfect for you, but when you get in front of the camera you have to smile and you gotta be on and, And I thought of you. [00:19:09] Christina: Yeah. No, I want, I mean, it was, it was, I mean, I, I would not look and, and I’ll fair, I would not have been able to do this if, if it had been like my own, um, uh, you know, uh, parent or father or anything. But like, I was, um, I had just, um, arrived in Paris I think when, um, my, uh, my husband’s father, when my father-in-law died. [00:19:29] Like I had just arrived and, and he, he’d been sick. He had cancer. Grant was with him, and I literally just arrived and that happened. And I was not in a position where I could fly back. It was not one of those things where I, I, you know, it just, it wasn’t like it. I was not in a position where I could do that. [00:19:44] And then like, you have to go and give a talk and, and be hanging out with people forgetting about the fact that like, you have all these other stresses happening in your life and at home and these personal things. And it can’t matter. It’s exactly like you said. Like you, you know, you, you could be feeling really sick. [00:19:59] You could be feeling whatnot. Like, I, I passed out on stage once my blood sugar got bad and I fainted on stage with, and that was really fucking embarrassing. And then you have to like, build it up and go on and then pretend like, like, No, no, don’t make anything about me. I think people gave me really good review marks because they felt bad for me, but that was, uh, still like, you know, humiliating on a lot of levels. [00:20:18] It was not great. Um, but yeah, that’s, you’re exactly right. It’s, it’s, it’s, um, yeah. It can be a lot. And, and I think that that’s why I, after I do a lot of these things, when I did them more frequently, it was easier to kind of figure out how to kind of like modulate, you know, and kind of get through it. But then when it’s like been a while and like I haven’t done one of these all day things in quite some time. [00:20:43] Like I, I was at, um, get merge, but that was an in person thing. And it’s just, it’s not the same as on camera. It’s not the same. And, um, [00:20:51] Jeff: uh, [00:20:52] Christina: you know, it’s not the same as when you literally have like a full production studio and like a jib coming at you in four cameras and instructions in your years of where you need to turn and what you need to do and reading off the prompter. [00:21:03] And you’ve gotta get in at this timeline and oh, now you’re being told that you have to actually extend two minutes because they need to fill time. And so you’re talking to someone and you’re like, All right, let’s, we’re, we’re, we’re gonna have to like, come up with an extra talking point. Yeah. Which I can do. [00:21:18] But the, the problem is, is that sometimes the person you’re ramping with doesn’t know they have to va. Like I was doing a, an interview live yesterday. About some security stuff. And the girl was great, but we’d rehearsed a lot and she was wanting to be very specific and, and very scripted in what she did, which I totally get because for people who don’t do this for a living, like they feel much more comfortable when they have it all out there. [00:21:38] Um, but it needed to be five minutes. And originally when we’d practiced it was like seven, so we needed to cut two minutes. Well, we cut too much or she cut too much. Um, and so we had a minute to go and so we’re done. And I need to be kind of wrapping up and she and I hadn’t talked about this before, but I was like, Okay, I have, I have, you know, literally I have, I have 65 seconds I need to fill, so I have to like come up on the fly with another question. [00:22:01] She handled it great, she gave some great tips, it was fine. And then I was able to get us out. I think we might have still been about 10 seconds early, but we were, you know, close enough. But yeah, you’re right, like those things happen and it’s just like, okay, that’s that, that’s it. And you have to forget about all the other shit that might be going on in the back of your mind. [00:22:19] And I’m sorry that was a rant, but I’m very tired, [00:22:22] Brett: No, that was [00:22:23] Jeff: But it sounds exhausting. [00:22:25] Brett: Yeah, for real. [00:22:26] Christina: It. No, it is, It is. Sponsor: Amazon Pharmacy [00:22:29] Brett: gonna, I would like to tell you about Amazon Pharmacy, though. [00:22:32] Jeff: Oh, thanks. [00:22:33] Christina: That’s actually [00:22:34] Brett: like, I feel like it’s a good segue after mental health, we all, we all get meds, we all have to go to the drugstore. So when I need to go to the drugstore, I always seem to wait until the last minute hoping they’ll be open or I get stuck in a line. [00:22:49] Right? Or both. And that’s why I love Amazon Pharmacy. 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[00:23:53] That’s amazon.com/ Overtired. Average savings based on usage inside RX data as compared to cash prices, Average savings for all generics are 78%, 37%. For select brand medications, restrictions apply. That’s amazon.com/ Overtired. Thanks, Amazon. I, Those are words I, I’m not used to uttering. Thanks, Amazon [00:24:20] Christina: For real. [00:24:22] Jeff: Was there anything in the ad script that indicated how you were supposed to say the words Yes. That. [00:24:30] Brett: Yes, [00:24:32] Christina: Selma that Amazon. Do we wanna go ahead and do our, our next, uh, a too, Just go ahead and, and, uh, get ’em over. Sponsor: NordVPN [00:24:39] Christina: Brett, you had mentioned reboot, um, and I’m not sure what network that’s on. Um, if that’s a, if that’s Hulu or Netflix or, Okay. It’s a Hulu show. Okay. Well that’s actually interesting. I mean, at this point Hulu is more available internationally. [00:24:51] However, there are some weird differences. Like if you’re in the uk, like it might be part of Disney plus, if you’re like in other things, it might, may or may not work. We also see things, uh, you know, we were just talking about that Amazon and some Amazon Prime stuff varies country by country. The same with with Netflix stuff and, uh, You know, if you’re ever in that scenario where like you’re really excited to watch this show or film and then you find out it’s not available in your country, and that’s really frustrating. [00:25:16] Um, and in, uh, into four times when I used to travel all the time, that was always frustrating. But with Nord vpn, I can switch my virtual location on my device with one click and I can access streaming services from over 60 countries at no extra cost. And that opens up a Pandora’s box of entertaining content that I wouldn’t be able to access without Nord vpn, which is really great. [00:25:39] And, uh, certainly it’s also, I point out if you’re in your home country and you wanna enjoy foreign content in some of those regions, a lot of times it’s really good and really weird, and that’s a fun thing to do. So you’ve probably heard that VPNs are great for online protection, but they slow down your internet speed. [00:25:56] And that is honestly like a, a common complaint, uh, with, uh, with VPNs is that like the latency between where the note is and where you are can, can mean that stuff is slow. However, Nord VPN is the fastest VPN in the world. Um, I don’t even notice when it’s running, and I’m actually saying that genuinely I’ve used it. [00:26:13] And, uh, you, the, the latency is actually remarkably, uh, good. And, um, so you can stream and browse online with no buffering or lagging. That’s especially important with online video because that is delivering, you know, a lot of data to you. So if it’s gonna be throttling or laggy, then it’s not a great experience. 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Heartbreak High [00:27:33] Brett: Have you guys seen Heartbreak High? [00:27:35] Christina: No. Tell us about it. [00:27:37] Brett: You know, you know, I have a thing for young adult stuff. Some of my favorite books are classified as ye [00:27:46] Christina: Okay. Yo, why, for sure. That’s, that’s different though, but yeah. [00:27:50] Brett: Well, yeah, and this is, and it’s not, I think I might be emotionally stunted from years of, of Addiction. Um, but I really, I really enjoy why stuff, but l who does not have my history with addiction, also enjoys this show called Heartbreak High on Netflix. [00:28:10] And it is astounding. It is like, if you are queer or neuro divergent in any way, this show has something for you. [00:28:20] Christina: Ooh. And it’s a reboot. [00:28:22] Brett: Is it really [00:28:23] Christina: is apparently I’m, it was an Australian program. It that, that also aired on the bbc, um, from 97 to 99. [00:28:32] Brett: takes place in Australia. [00:28:34] Christina: Yeah. Well, no, that makes sense because it’d be weird for them to like reboot it otherwise, but yeah, it was on, it was on Network 10, um, and um, and then it was on BBC two, but yeah, it was, it was So was an Australian show. [00:28:46] It was, Oh, it’s a spinoff of the 1993 Australian feature film. The Heartbreak Kid. Um, [00:28:52] Brett: the original now, because this show is [00:28:54] Christina: Tell us about it. [00:28:56] Brett: Um, like you, like the, the main characters are, there’s one girl who, who’s basically neurotypical, uh, has no idea what’s going on in her friend’s lives. Um, like she’s very surface level, but then her friends include like, uh, a non-binary queer. [00:29:18] Like, uh, like cis male, um, who is in love with this guy who’s caught up in this like, uh, world of crime where he basically is scared to deviate because he’ll get the ship beat outta him. You got an autistic girl and, and he’s best friends with the autistic girl and is like an amazing friend to a high school girl with autism. [00:29:44] And there’s uh, uh, you got a girl who goes through a near sexual assault and then her father is also insane. I don’t know in what way, but basically her life is in danger at home because her father, her single father is just fucking nuts. And like all of this comes together. It is the most dramatic. High school center. [00:30:15] It’s like if 9 0 2 and oh had a lot more just insanity and neuro divergence to it, [00:30:23] Christina: Okay, so, so, so, so is Australia and Degrassi is what you’re saying? [00:30:29] Brett: I, I don’t actually relate to that, that analogy, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna let it, I’m gonna accept that that’s probably [00:30:36] Christina: Okay. So, so, so, so Degrassi and then there was Degrassi. So there’s Degrassi, Junior High, Degrassi High. Then there was Degrassi, the Next Generation, and then they did a Netflix one, and I don’t fucking know what that’s called. And they might be doing another one, but it’s like this Canadian soap, teen soap thing that has gone on for generations that, uh, that’s where we got Drake from, to be honest. [00:30:59] Brett: Okay. [00:31:00] Christina: Because Drake was on the next generation. He was, he was, uh, Jimmy Brooks who got shot and then, uh, crippled. He was a basketball player who was shot in a school shooting thing and, and then, uh, couldn’t use his legs anymore. And, um, and they ver they let him rap occasionally, but you didn’t ever actually hear any of his stuff. [00:31:16] Then he was always kind of doing it on the down low, um, under his, uh, his Drake, uh, moniker. But, uh, it, it sounds a lot like Heartbreak High, seems like Australian Degrassi, which as a big fan of Degrassi, um, I’m here for, So that’s fun. [00:31:31] Brett: I, I re I don’t think, I don’t think it’s, it’s specifically for people who enjoy young adult stuff. I think it’s for anyone who is neuro divergent or queer in any way that wants characters that can relate to you because they do an amazing [00:31:52] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:31:53] Brett: of representing different types of people. Um, it’s, it’s really like, it’s really moving. [00:32:01] I recommend it for everyone. [00:32:03] Christina: That’s cool. Yeah. And actually, it turns out some of the characters that I’m just looking at here, some of the, the recurring and notable guest stars, um, were from the original. So, um, I wonder [00:32:12] Brett: didn’t know that [00:32:13] Christina: Yeah, no, again, so again, I’m, I’m just being real, like, and I’m into watching this because I was unaware of this show, but this does completely scream to me. [00:32:21] And in, in fact, I bet even when it was created, cuz Degrassi had already happened in Canada, um, at, I totally bet that somebody was just like, let’s just do an Australian version of Degrassi. Uh, and, uh, which genius, You should totally do that. And now the reboot, um, is referencing old things like Degrassi did. [00:32:39] So I’m, I’m gonna watch this. And I, I think to your point, I think it’s great that they show like these different types of people, but I also feel. Whether you’re emotionally stunted or not. And I love your thoughts on this, Jeff, because you’re, you know, you have, um, teenagers, but I feel like there’s something kind of for a lot, for some people, not everybody, but for some people, there’s something that is like always going to be fun and relatable and you know, like you can dig, jump into things that are either take place at that time in people’s lives or um, you know, things that may or may not be classified as ye just because even though whether you’re emotionally centered or not, once you get past that, we can always, I think a lot of us anyway can like go back and like remember what that time was like and, and that’s just like a, it can be very compelling is all I’m saying. [00:33:25] Like I think whether or not you, cuz I don’t consider myself emotionally stunted the way that, that you might read, but I’ve loved teen shows since before I was a teenager. Long after I was a teen. You know, I like why stuff. Um, but I also think that sometimes it can also be a really good way, as you were mentioning, to showcase people with, with different backgrounds and, um, you know, um, uh, you know, who are different because it’s a lot easier to kind of show that kind of coming of age stuff in a coming of age setting than it is in like an adult workplace thing where, you know, it’s like people, like even the most, uh, uh, you know, understanding and, and and whatnot amongst us, like, you might not give the same sort of understanding or care as much about the journey if it’s like watching like a, a workplace, you know, drama of somebody in their forties and going through these things as if you’re seeing like the self discovery and, and, and whatnot, you know? [00:34:24] Brett: that moment, that chrysalis. When, uh, when things like neuro divergence become like the most important in your life, uh, the th the times when they affect your life the most, like everyone who grew up, uh, you know, uh, bipolar, autistic, adhd, We all remember [00:34:45] Christina: Depressed. [00:34:46] Brett: we remember what high school was like, uh, those times when it became the forefront of our lives. [00:34:53] Uh, and I think everybody, no matter where they’re at, can remember those moments. [00:34:59] Christina: I agree. [00:34:59] Brett: I feel like high school dramas, uh, they, they work [00:35:04] Christina: They do, they do high school dramas, young adult things. I mean, I think that’s why like some of the best films and some of those things, like I consider the graduate like one of like the best films of all time, right? And, and, um, based on a book, but like Mark Mike Nichols, like what he did with that. Like that is like the, the kind of quintessential of that era coming of age thing. [00:35:23] It’s also sort of an allegory for the end of that decade of the sixties. Right. And um, and I think, you know, you see that with a lot of, a lot of content and, and that I think is why stuff is read at this point more by adults. Than than young adults. Right? Like, if anything, I [00:35:39] Brett: better. [00:35:40] Christina: No, no, no. This has been the trend for at least a decade. [00:35:42] Like, it, it, it like, like Twilight was definitely part of the kickoff for sure. But then like Hunger Games I think was really, I mean, Harry Potter, honestly, we really wanna go back, but that I don’t consider Harry Potter y I think those are children’s books, um, that happen to just be very good. But then you had Twilight and then you really had Hunger Games cuz Hunger Games, the books were fucking good. [00:36:04] And it wasn’t just like a book that you would be like, Oh, these are just things that kids read. It was like, No, this is actually like a good series. And then the movies were really fucking good. Like the, the movies were better than they had any right to be. Right. And, and that kicked off. I think this whole resurgence of, um, writers, especially from different backgrounds writing for frankly adult audiences, but using the YE themes. [00:36:28] And I’m sorry, I’m, I’m rambling cuz I’m [00:36:29] Brett: No, I feel like that’s totally true. Like I, those books are not, like, they’re not stupid. Like they’re not written to children. They are written to adults. Uh, and they might be about themes that maybe a high schooler can relate to, but, but I’m, I’m not a stupid [00:36:49] Christina: No, no, you’re not [00:36:51] Brett: books. [00:36:51] I’m very literate and I read these books and like they speak to me. Maybe not in the way that, like a Tom Robbins book speaks to me. But, uh, but I never feel like it’s being dumbed down or like I’m reading something for children. Like they are, they’re written for adults about, about themes that honestly we’ve all been through and we can relate [00:37:14] Christina: Totally. Did either of you ever read, um, the Parks of Wallflower? [00:37:19] Jeff: No. [00:37:20] Christina: Okay. So it’s a great film too. Um, and, and Steven, um, Chapski, can’t pronounce his last name or can’t think of it, but he, um, I think he wrote the screenplay as well as, uh, the book, which for, for me, like made it really good. But it, it, so it was published in 1999. [00:37:35] I was in high school. I was like the, the age, it was really kind of designed for, um, I’d read Catcher in the Rye. Right before I read that and, and that actually was gonna be one of the examples I used too. Catch on Therye is a fucking y novel. It’s a coming of age novel, Right. But it’s also widely considered one of the greatest books of all time. [00:37:52] And it is, Right. But, but that is like one of those, But per subpoena wallflower, um, it takes place, It’s written through letters to this kind of anonymous person, and it takes place in I think like 1991. Um, and, um, uh, which was an interesting device even to use then, because for the generation, like my generation who read it, like I kind of knew some of the references, but I didn’t know The Smiths. [00:38:15] Like I was, I’ll be completely honest, I was introduced to the Smiths through the perks of Being a Wallflower because in the book, he, he talks about getting these tapes and, and listening to the song, um, um, you know, Asleep and um, and things like that. And like that introduced me to, to The Smiths. Um, and then I remember going, using Napster to like, download songs that were in the, in the, um, book. [00:38:37] And then later in the movie, Yeah. But, but that is one of those, like, I was just, I would just put it out there for anybody who likes this sort of stuff. It’s a fantastic book. The film is great too. The film has, um, Emma Watson and um, um, Ezra Miller, uh, who they are, you know, controversial, but they were very good actors in it. [00:38:54] And, um, Logan Luman, it’s, it’s, uh, it was, um, adapted in 2012 and was, uh, very well received, um, as, as a film. But the, the book is, I still think back in my mind as like, yeah, it would be probably my top 10 books as like, like weird as that is for a fucking MTV book because it was under MTV’s imprint, which was brand new then. [00:39:17] Yeah, it was, MTV Books was brand new then it was under their imprint. And I remember even reading the, the reviews, like, I don’t remember what was The Times or, or, you know, things like that. But it, you know, it was written up in, in some of like the things other than Kirks who were. Oh, this is actually good. [00:39:33] And you know, it came out on paperback. It was one of those like great just books and anyway, it just makes me think of that cuz you’re right, those things are like forever whatnot. And I was the age, um, that I needed to be when that came out. But as an adult I could still think like people could read that and watch the film and totally be like, this shit works. [00:39:54] And then it’s interesting cuz the film, what I liked about it, they didn’t, um, adjust the timeline. It still took place in the early 1990s. So even though at that point it was, it was 20 years later or 30 years later. 20 years later. Yeah, [00:40:07] Jeff: Hmm, [00:40:07] Brett: Can you drop that in the show [00:40:09] Christina: I will absolutely put that in the show notes. [00:40:11] Brett: Veni? [00:40:12] Jeff: I can, I throw two shows into that mix, which is, uh, Dairy Girls and Sex [00:40:17] Christina: Yes. I love dairy girls. [00:40:19] Jeff: Ugh. [00:40:20] Brett: I love sex education and I’m so excited there’s another season coming. That’s such a great [00:40:25] Jeff: So fantastic. I know it’s like [00:40:27] Brett: I just restarted Dairy girls, uh, this week too. [00:40:30] Jeff: Oh, nice. We’ve started season three, uh, which just came out. [00:40:35] Brett: Yeah, that’s why I restarted. I had to like, I had to start from the beginning, so I get season three in, but yeah. Great shows. [00:40:42] Jeff: so delightful. You know, one of a man who was kind of a boy who was kind of a bully in my high school, uh, kind of stated something once to me. That to me is like, explains my attraction to any kind of media that takes us back into our sort of mid to late adolescence. And he said to me, and this guy was such a jerk, he, he used to punch me at the bus stop once we were in the computer lab and he balled up a bunch of clay from, from, uh, pottery class, and he threw it at the back of my neck as hard as he could. [00:41:15] And he is such a dick. And then one day he says to me, he’s like, You know what? You know what high school is? This is all high school. It’s high school. It’s just a microcosm of the rest of the world. And I went, Where do you get off dropping fucking wisdom on me. Like you’ve been like, [00:41:30] Christina: He’s completely accurate. [00:41:32] Jeff: and I’ve thought of that motherfucker ever since [00:41:35] It’s just like, but it’s true. Like, you know, it’s like for me also, like there’s always a, a film projector playing, like, uh, you know, not quite in focus reels of my high school experience inside my head. You know, like we’re always, I feel like we’re always living there a little bit. Um, and, and so I think to be able to like, touch it through literature and TV is just awesome. [00:41:59] Sex education for me especially was one of those [00:42:01] Christina: Yeah, I, Yes, actually chicken is great. Sorry, go on. [00:42:04] Jeff: Oh, [00:42:04] Brett: really, I thought Christina was saying perks. Sini Wallflower. And I’m just looking at the show notes and realizing [00:42:13] Jeff: that’s her password. That’s her, that’s her [00:42:15] Christina: That’s my password. Indeed. [00:42:17] Brett: The Perks of Being a Wallflower, which I have actually heard of. That’s way less foreign to me. [00:42:22] Christina: Okay. Yeah. Cause I was a little bit surprised. I was like, Perk Sabina Wallflower. The, the movie and the, the book, I mean, the book is, is, um, is, is fairly acclaimed and I was especially, I I was like, it was written by like a late era Gen Xer, like a guy, you know, about your age. Um, Brett, uh, uh, because he, he wrote it based on like, when he was in high school and, um, and so I, you know, um, yeah. [00:42:49] Anyway, it’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a great book. Um, great movie too. Sex expectation is great too. [00:42:56] Brett: S uh, Scully is amazing in sex education. [00:43:00] Jeff: Scully . Jillian Anderson. Jillian Anderson. [00:43:04] Christina: Yeah, she’s amazing. [00:43:05] Jeff: If, if nobody’s seen it, it’s the, [00:43:08] Brett: and her lover, the Lars, or whatever [00:43:10] Jeff: Yes. [00:43:11] Brett: he, It’s such a great relationship. [00:43:14] Jeff: Just the idea that you’ve got a high school kid. His mom is a, is a sex therapist. He has, he has all the possible repression issues and he ends up being a counselor to people in his school in a secret spot to help them with their most, most intimate sexual problems. [00:43:31] And it’s like, and I just think what a beautiful premise in the first place, but just the way it unfolds is just amazing. Amazing. Anyway, love [00:43:42] Brett: uh, should we do some gratitude before we wrap up? [00:43:45] Christina: Yeah. Grapptitude [00:43:46] Brett: I’m gonna go with choosy this week. There are, there are multiple apps like, so basically when you click a link, it opens your default browser. Uh, but if you have choosy set as your default browser instead of your default browser, you get a window, a little like popup where you can choose like Safari or Chrome or Firefox or Edge or whatever, whatever browsers you have installed, and you can pick which, which, uh, app to open any Lincoln. [00:44:21] What I love about Choosy and Choosy is, Honestly, it’s the oldest one I know that still exists. It’s been around for a while and it’s still updated. Um, what I love is that it has a whole, uh, rules system where you can say, if this is true, then open and this browser, or offer me a selection of these particular browsers. [00:44:45] And you [00:44:46] Jeff: I need that [00:44:47] Brett: default browsers for certain types of links. If I hold on the option key and click a link in an email, it’ll ask me which browser to open it in. Uh, if it’s an Oracle specific link that I know is going to require the vpn, I send it to Safari. I don’t have to think about it. It just automatically opens in Safari where my VPN works better. [00:45:08] Um, and just like all of these things that as the problem arises, I just add a new rule and I never have to think about it again. And Choosy, Choosy is perfect for it. [00:45:18] Christina: Yeah, I, I will, plus one that I’ll also say, uh, csi, um, George, who is the, the developer of csi, he actually works at GitHub, which, um, I, uh, realized slash remembered a few months, um, after I joined and I like reached out to him and I was like, Oh my gosh. You know, cuz we, we’ve been Twitter mutuals, but I, I, uh, never really talked to him that much and I was like, Oh, that’s awesome. [00:45:37] That we’re both at, at GitHub. Um, and, uh, I, I, So it’s funny, So I use Sui on I think two of my machines. I have been trying one called, I think it’s pronounced Velha. It’s V E l j a. And that’s from, um, um, and that’s from CiDRA. Sohu, who’s a, a very, uh, we’ve talked about a lot of, um, uh, his apps before. That one’s in the App store. [00:46:00] It’s free. Choosy is good. [00:46:02] Brett: open source. [00:46:03] Christina: And open source. Yes. Choo is good because I think that it’s a little bit more customizable in terms of some of the rules you can do. And in terms of, um, like, like you said, like getting like specific apps and like if you want like, to really get granular with your rules, it’s awesome. [00:46:18] Um, I, I, I love, hoo, The one thing I will say, if you’re using a browser that has, uh, different profiles, like Chrome has profiles, but so does Edge, so does like Chrome, beta whatnot. If you’re, if you use like a bunch of the, those different types of things and you wanna open specific sites and a specific profile, Choosy right now doesn’t do that for all of the, um, uh, various like versions of, of the browser. [00:46:44] So you might wanna look at, at Velha. But, um, in general, I totally agree with you. Like it’s such a great app and, and it’s one of those that I paid for a million years ago. I remember when it was a preference pain and then it became like zone app and it’s so, it’s so good. Like I can’t, I can’t not use those things. [00:46:59] Cuz for me, I’m similar to you, right? Like if, if I’m doing work stuff and I even have like a rule set up, like in choosing whatnot, like if I’m opening something up in GitHub, it needs to be in my work profile in Chrome because that’s where all my stuff is and that’s where I’m authenticated through like Octa in terms of like my fingerprint key because I only have so many of them and I, you know, can send everything there. [00:47:23] But for other stuff it might be like, No, I wanna use Edge, or I wanna use Safari, or, you know, Firefox or whatever the case may be. [00:47:29] Brett: the, uh, I have the choosy plugin installed in Firefox, Chrome and Safari, where if I’m viewing a webpage in one browser and I like as a web developer, I wanna see how this page looks in another browser. I just click the choosy button and the toolbar and pick a different browser and it opens the same page in a different, Or if I go to something like Riverside where we record our podcast and I forget which browser I’m in, I can just click the button and switch to Chrome, which it requires. [00:48:02] Um, I’ve also played with browser ferry, but honestly, Choosy is, Choosy is my choice. I choose choosy. [00:48:09] Christina: Yeah, I would say I, I, I like Choosy and I, I like, um, Veja, but yeah, Choosy is, is, is great and it’s well designed and, and George is, uh, good work. And, uh, also, you know, shout out to another GitHub coworker, but I’ve been using it for, I don’t even know how long, but yeah. Great. Great. Pick. [00:48:27] Brett: All right, that’s it for me. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. One thing, do you know I added Chrome Pro profiles to bunch? [00:48:34] Christina: No. Ooh, tell us about that because that’s awesome. [00:48:37] Jeff: Yeah. [00:48:38] Brett: bunch, in bunch, you can open a link specifically in Chrome just by typing Chrome Colon and then putting the url. Now, if you type Chrome, and then in square brackets you specify a profile, uh, and it’s case insensitive, it’ll take the first match. [00:48:57] Um, and you can specify any profile and Bunch will open that link automatically in that specific profile. It only works with Chrome and Canary right now. Um, I haven’t played with Edge, uh, incorporating it there, but, but you can, you can do specific Chrome profiles in bunch. [00:49:20] Christina: Very [00:49:20] Jeff: about, um, like Firefox, um, containers? Do those have an API attached to them at all? [00:49:26] Brett: I’ve not figured that out yet. [00:49:27] Jeff: Okay. Okay. I’ll be right here when you, Do you wanna go Christina? [00:49:35] Christina: All right. So, um, the one I’m gonna mention, um, there are a bunch of, uh, these types of apps and, and, and, uh, I know that like we talk a lot about note taking things, and Brett obviously is working on his own thing, but, um, you know, the second brain kind of like, uh, era of apps, you know, has been a thing for a few years. [00:49:52] Like, there’s log sec, there’s room research, and there’s obsidian and obsidian. One point. Just came out like they just hit one auto and they actually had a, a pretty decent redesign. I think that, I think the app looks a lot better and um, although I do wish that it were maybe open source, most of the, um, plugins are, and so there is like a really, um, great ecosystem. [00:50:14] They have a way that you can pay either one off or if you wanna do the subscription. I don’t do any of their subscriptions cuz I don’t care anything about publishing from them. There are other ways you could do it too. And, and the syncing through iCloud uh, works, uh, perfectly fine for me. But I think that in terms of like the, so the idea of this is, it’s not just like a Notes app cuz you could have any notes app, it’s like a notes app and a mind mapper and you can grab things from other sources. [00:50:38] Like you can get plugins with, you know, different reading sources or, you know, um, different things you can send to and it can extract stuff from images and, and tweets and other files and, and really, um, make it so that you kind of have your own personal wiki to then be able to search through and find things really easily. [00:50:57] Brett: I have multiple things to say about obsidian. Uh, first of all, early in their development, they contacted me, uh, for advice on some various markdown kinds of things. And they said, We don’t see this as a, as a competitor to the, the NV Ultra app that you’ve announced that you’re working on and have been for fucking years now. [00:51:20] Um, I’m like, Absolutely it is, [00:51:23] Christina: Of course it [00:51:24] Brett: I, I 100% wanna help you out because, you know, this is the community we work in. Um, and absolutely it [00:51:31] Christina: Of course it is. Absolutely it [00:51:33] Brett: hundred percent competitor to NV Ultra, and it is a fantastic application. Um, the things that can do the extensibility of it, the, the way it can do these like mind map node connections of all your notes. [00:51:48] I can’t remember what they call it, but it’s, it’s outstanding. Um, there are you, they have a url. Handler and, uh, you can create like I have incorporated obsidian into gather my tool for Mark down defying any [00:52:07] Jeff: Oh, you did. [00:52:09] Brett: Um, not, So basically I incorporated Gather with NVI Ultra and then realized I could just create, uh, a way to generate URL handlers for any application, uh, with it, with obsidian in mind. [00:52:27] But I made it more flexible so you could make it work with any URL handler. Uh, but if you go to the, the Gather Wiki, uh, basically I made it so you can take any webpage and mark down a fight. It’s straight to an obsidian note [00:52:42] Christina: Oh, that’s badass. [00:52:43] Brett: it into your Wiki, [00:52:45] Christina: Hell yeah. [00:52:46] Brett: click, using a shortcut. Um, yeah, obsidian is outstanding. [00:52:50] It’s just like I can’t compete with obsidian. It’s so good. [00:52:54] Jeff: amazing. I use it, actually, the way I use it is I have a single folder of my text files and it’s also an obsidian vault and it’s also the default folder that NV Ultra goes to. Um, it’s also the, [00:53:08] Brett: the beauty of [00:53:09] Christina: That is the beauty of [00:53:10] Jeff: yeah, it’s also where, speaking of Brett tools, it’s also where all of my quick question, uh, text files are. [00:53:17] And, and, and that helps a great deal cuz I still, it is a competitor clearly, but I see why they would, why they would believe maybe more strongly than they ought to, that it’s not because, [00:53:28] Brett: You can use them in [00:53:30] Christina: You can, [00:53:30] Brett: are [00:53:31] Jeff: Yeah, exactly. That I’ve always said, I know I’ve said that to you a hundred times when we talk about upsetting, it’s like, well, I actually kind of use ’em both, [00:53:36] Christina: No. Oh, I was gonna say, and I use them differently, right. And like, they, they are absolutely competitors, but I think what’s great about this stuff and, and the knowledge, I mean, and you know this better than anybody, Brett, these things are so specific and personal. Like you cannot make this the sort of thing where like you can’t design programs like this, in my opinion anyway, and be like, this is gonna be the one app that everyone is going to use, [00:53:59] Brett: Or you shouldn’t, you shouldn’t think that [00:54:02] Christina: Well, you shouldn’t think that way. And if you do think that way, it, it will not be successful with the, the, the nerdy, like very granular, customizable audience, right? Like, if, if you wanna do a general Notes app, that’s fine, but that’s not gonna have all these types of features and so, [00:54:15] Brett: if you wanna make a craft, if you wanna become your own ecosystem, sure, go [00:54:20] Christina: Sure. Or [00:54:21] Brett: if you wanna appeal to the envy, ultra obsidian customers, you need to be open format. Yeah. [00:54:26] Christina: Absolutely. Right. And so that’s what I do like about obsidian is that even though, like, it’s not open source, like the vaults, like you said, it’s just flat markdown files, so you can use them together. And a lot of people do, like I, I frequently use multiple things together and, and, and, and because there are certain use cases where it’s better, right? [00:54:43] Like I think in terms of ingesting certain data, like obsidian because of its plug and ecosystem is better. But if I was trying to do, maybe I wanted to get really great markdown formatting and, and, and do kind of different types of writing, right? Like, like in alt would be. [00:54:56] Brett: access to quick take. A quick note. Yeah. That’s where MD Ultra fits in, but as far as like linking your notes [00:55:04] Christina: Right. That’s not really [00:55:05] Brett: all of that, that’s, that’s beyond scope for MB Ultra and Perfect for obsidian. They’ve done such a good job with it [00:55:12] Christina: exactly. But, but like you said, you can use them together. But yes, obviously they are competitors, Right? Obviously they’re, I think the core most active user base will use more than one, but Yeah. You know what I mean? Like if you’re going after kind the general person, Yeah. Obviously they’re, they’re, they’re a confederate, but I’m really glad that you added all those features and, uh, anyway, I just wanted to them on, on 1.0. [00:55:37] Jeff: pick is. The is an app I used for like years ago and just picked back up just short Cat and what Short Cat does. [00:55:47] Brett: I haven’t heard that. I haven’t heard [00:55:49] Jeff: Is this. It essentially, it essentially allows you with a sheet keyboard shortcut to basically select any UI function, [00:55:59] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:56:01] Jeff: select any UI function in the app you’re in. Um, many more features in a browser, but like if I’m, you know, I, the thing I think of is that Brett has the misfortune of having to sometimes talk me through something I’m doing on a screen share and, and he’ll be like, No, no, I told you no, it’s update. [00:56:19] No, it’s up, it’s, it’s up upper left up further over. Um, and what you can do is shortcut, cut shortcut is just hit your, you know, global shortcut and, uh, type in the thing he said I was supposed to be hitting, and then you can even click from there. Um, it’s just a really, I, I don’t even know, like, uh, it’s, it’s totally, uh, has great functionality that I don’t use very often, but it is one of those things when I first discovered this app that kind of made me understand how. [00:56:50] How you are able to interface with your computer in ways that are invisible to you. Um, and the fact that you could be in an app and just start typing and it would, it would show you functionality that you can’t even see. [00:57:02] Brett: Right. Yeah. It’s deep access. It’s deep access to mac o s accessibility, um, features, and it uses accessibility to be able to access any control you can see on screen, um, and provide keyboard shortcuts to it. It’s, it’s an outstanding, I just haven’t heard about it for years. [00:57:21] Christina: Well, [00:57:21] Jeff: Right. No, same. I [00:57:22] Christina: it was, it was rewritten. It looks like, um, a big rewrite happened in like June or July, so now there’s been, Yeah, so, so this is what happened. Yeah, so I’m, because I just, I had, I heard of it, but I forgot all about it. So I looked this up and in, um, June 27th, 2022, first release from scratch rewrite with improved architecture, and I. [00:57:43] Requires Mac S 11 plus some workflows of change, new ui, and then they’ve started adding. It’s been actively developed like a, like a new release [00:57:51] Jeff: Do you think they, did they rewrite it in Swift? Did they rewrite it in Swift, you [00:57:55] Christina: I don’t know, [00:57:57] Jeff: Okay. [00:57:58] Christina: but, but I, but I, but I don’t know. [00:58:00] Jeff: the funny thing is, the reason it came up for me was not bad. It was that, um, I’m, I’m trying to just like deal with the garbage pile that my sonology is of all of my old files, cuz I dumped ’em all in there and I was just trying to see if I could find, make some sense of it. [00:58:16] And I found a folder that had on my apps from a backup from like 20, I don’t know what I mean, I think I, I might be crazy, but I’m pretty sure Short Cat came into my life before 2010, but I could be wrong. It was a long [00:58:30] Christina: Yeah, no, no, I know. Yeah, no, I look back at it. I think, I think it, I think the first one that I see, but this was not, the first version on their page goes back to 2012. And so, and that was, uh, version zero 2.3, but that means before 2010 probably does make sense. Right? So, but that, just that, But, but no, cuz I, I vaguely remembered the app that I didn’t, I hadn’t thought about it in a long time. [00:58:53] I don’t know if I ever used it, but yeah, I just got a significant rewrite and now it looks like it is actually under much more active development, which is really cool. [00:59:01] Jeff: yeah. It’s awesome. It’s fun for not using your mouse [00:59:05] Brett: I think I’ve mentioned it on the show before, but have you guys seen Polero? [00:59:09] Jeff: No. [00:59:10] Christina: I think I, you. [00:59:11] Brett: through Set app. [00:59:12] Christina: Right. Yeah. You’ve told me about this one before, [00:59:15] Brett: So if you’re familiar with the command shift, p pallet in, in sublime or vs code, if you have sublime shortcuts, um, it gives you access to every menu item in an application just by hitting command shift p in any app. [00:59:32] Uh, so you can like command shift Pete, and then just like fuzzy matching of any menu item, uh, hit return. Next time you pop it up, it will default to the last, uh, menu item you triggered. So it makes it really easy to repeat functionality. Uh, I’m gonna add it to the show notes. Just [00:59:52] Christina: Absolutely. [00:59:54] Brett: bonus pick. [00:59:55] Christina: Bonus pick. Yeah, I actually, it’s funny because I looked at this, I just pulled up setup, I didn’t have it install on this computer, but I have it starred, so I clearly have it installed someplace, but I might not have used it. You know how those things go. But, um, but, but like all, no meaning I haven’t like, used it regularly all the time, but I do remember this now cuz you told me about it and that’s awesome. [01:00:14] Jeff: Yeah. it’s got the most adorable. [01:00:19] Brett: I, [01:00:21] Jeff: It’s a little kitten with a with a computer mouse in its mouth. [01:00:25] Brett: Oh, you’re talking about, um, uh, [01:00:28] Christina: Short, Yeah, [01:00:29] Brett: Yeah. Notcher, is that [01:00:31] Jeff: Sorry. Not [01:00:33] Christina: yeah, I was gonna say, but yeah, Shortcuts icon is super, super cute, but, uh, yeah, PLE Roses is, is a little more normal. Um, not, not super cute, but sounds like a great app. So yeah, add that as a bonus, but yeah. Short Cat, thank you for that. I’m gonna play with this. [01:00:46] Jeff: Yeah. Super fun. All right. Get some sleep. [01:00:50] Brett: Jeff, I, I wish you the best of luck [01:00:53] Christina: For real, Jeff. We [01:00:55] Brett: all of the things that are going on in your life [01:00:57] Jeff: Thank you. Appreciate it. [01:00:59] Christina: Seriously. Jeff, Like we love you. Thank you for, for being on the show today and contributing and everything and uh, um, yeah. Uh, YouTube, Right. I’m glad working through the stuff you’re working through and I’m, I, I love you both and I guess, uh, everybody should get some sleep, right? But I do, I do [01:01:14] Brett: too. [01:01:15] Jeff: Yeah, awesome. [01:01:17] Brett: some sleep. [01:01:17] Christina: get some sleep. [01:01:18] Outro: The. [01:01:25] Stinger: Hey, there are good people. Before you go, we have a bunch of new places where you can interact with us. Please check out our Instagram feed, our YouTube channel, Twitter of course, and sign up for the Overtired newsletter, which will sort of pick up where the show leaves off with expanded show notes, uh, a little bit of what the three of us get up to between episodes. [01:01:48] And let’s face it, there’ll be some musings. How can you resist musings? You’ll find details for all the ways to interact with us in the show notes and at Overtired dot com. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you as always for listening.

Video surfaces of Brett’s 1990s punk band Onward to Mayhem. Jeff gets soaked in mace, cuffed, and taken downtown for the crime of rock ‘n roll. Christina reveals an amazing coulda-woulda with a rising-star emo band. Brett has a new Synology and its fast like ’90s hardcore! Sponsor SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. Show Links Paradise City Up the Drunx Saves the Day Copwatch Saves the Day Synology DS1520+ Ludum Dare Apple Store Time Machine Posterino Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jeffreyguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett Terpstra Time Machine [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Brett: Hey, people, people listening to podcasts. This is, uh, this is Brett Terpstra. You’re listening to Overtired. I am here as always with my esteemed cohost, Christina Warren and Jeff Severance. Gunzel. Uh, how you guys doing? [00:00:20] Jeffrey: Good [00:00:21] Christina: Oh, good. I’m tired. But other than that, I’m good. [00:00:25] Brett: You just, you just woke up. [00:00:27] Christina: I did just wake up, which is like bad of me, but I just, it’s been a, I’ve had an incredibly like, busy like long week and next week is gonna be even worse. And I just, it was completely, and I feel guilty saying this because we’ll talk about it cuz you were the one who actually got sick. [00:00:42] But I’ve just been like, I’m like, I’m so dead to the world. [00:00:46] Jeffrey: Yeah, you described your couple of weeks coming up at some point, maybe even on the episode last week, and it sounds. Something you’ll be happy to be through [00:00:55] Christina: Yes, 100%. [00:00:56] Brett: a. R for sure. I, uh, I can tell I’ve recovered from Covid because I have been up since 1:00 AM. Um, not manic. I was sleeping really well there for a little bit. Uh, I was sleeping till like 8:00 AM which is insane for me. Um, but yeah, this morning I woke up at one and just like tossed and turned until 6:00 AM and then just got up. [00:01:20] But yeah, I’m tired. So I, I went to Minneapolis as previously discussed. Uh, had some great dinners, saw some great people, uh, got home, uh, couple days later, Got very tired. and uh, my girlfriend was like, You should test. And so I tested and sure enough I had covid. Um, I know I did not have covid going to the cities cuz I had tested and I pretty much isolate by default. [00:01:53] Um, the only person I had seen for a week before I left was, was l and she, she was not sick. Um, I think if I had to guess, I got it from the tow truck driver that I spent 20 minutes in a, in an enclosed cab with on the way to the cities. Um, [00:02:15] Jeffrey: And those tow truck drivers, I could just tell you from experience, they can talk. [00:02:19] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, he, he had stories about his, like, ex step son-in-law was suing him. He was on the, he was on the phone with his lawyer when I got into the cab, and then he, then he had to explain the whole situation. So I checked with everyone that I visited. No one else has tested positive, so I don’t think I spread it anywhere. [00:02:45] Um, No one else has had any symptoms at all, so it’s just me. I did get l sick. Um, so l and I have had covid this week. Uh, I am fully recovered at this point, and I think l may have another day left before she’s back to a hundred. But yeah, after, after two and a half years, I finally decided to see what this whole Covid thing was. [00:03:09] Christina: And, uh, what, what’s the consensus from your perspective? [00:03:13] Brett: Like, I enjoyed the days off. I, I love sick days because I don’t feel obligated to do anything. I get to just be and like, just deal with the sickness. I can just watch TV all day and it doesn’t matter. And that’s kind of, that’s freeing. So I don’t hate sick days. Um, and honestly, like aside from being super drained with a lot of like phlegm, it wasn’t the worst thing in the world and it only lasted two days. [00:03:46] Christina: Had you guys, I don’t remember, like had you had like the, the newest booster yet, or [00:03:50] Jeffrey: I have, [00:03:51] Brett: I have had, I have two, two vaccines in one booster. I had, I had not gotten the second booster yet. Um, and now I have to wait three weeks before I can get it. But I do think that vaccination was why my symptoms only lasted two days and weren’t severe, [00:04:08] Christina: Oh yeah. No, without a doubt. No, I was just curious because the, the reason I was asking is I also, I recently like, like Jeff got the new booster and I’ve been like wanting to have like a listen, like to people. Like has that actually helped, like in terms of how quickly people either A, recover or B, like if you actually get it or not. [00:04:26] Jeffrey: Well, I’m glad you’re [00:04:27] Christina: Very glad you’re better. [00:04:29] Brett: So I sent you guys some videos. Um, [00:04:33] Christina: Love this. This is so good. [00:04:35] Brett: The drummer in my, in the band I was in, in my. Early twenties, late teens, early twenties, onward to mayhem. He, he apparently, and I had no memory of this, but apparently there was video taken all through our East Coast tour, um, and. And he sent me a couple gigabytes of, it’s, you know, it’s the video you could shoot in 1999. [00:05:01] It wasn’t like high res or anything, uh, but the sound quality is surprisingly good for a, a handheld video camera in 1999. [00:05:11] Christina: Yeah, totally, [00:05:12] Brett: I won’t say the music was surprisingly good, but the sound quality was. Um, and I, I clipped a couple songs out, uh, one of them being a horribly drunken cover of Paradise City by Guns and Roses, Um, punk rock style, super fast, super fun and, and me being a total asshole on stage. [00:05:35] But, uh, but that it was a rush of memories. Man, that was crazy to see. [00:05:41] Jeffrey: I bet it was. How long was the tour? [00:05:44] Brett: Um, a month maybe. [00:05:46] Jeffrey: That’s a long time. [00:05:47] Brett: I have such blurry memories of the whole thing. Um, I, I was, I was trying, I was addicted to heroin and trying to score from city to city. Uh, I remember I was able to score in Baltimore, in New York, in Philadelphia. But I think other than those three, I was pretty much sick every time we took stage and was just like drinking to like get through it. [00:06:18] Um, so I was, I was not, I was not a, like I was, I thought I was being funny, but I was just being an asshole. Um, and. [00:06:29] Jeffrey: lesson [00:06:29] Brett: And talking over, talking over everyone else, like just I, I would not have wanted to be in a band with me, but I also would not have wanted to be in a band with our lead singer. Um, I don’t think I could have handled him his personality without heroin and alcohol. [00:06:50] Uh, our drummer who shared the video was straight Edge at the time. May still be, uh, I don’t know how he did it. I asked him, he said, I don’t know how he did it either. [00:07:01] Jeffrey: Hitting things every night. [00:07:02] Christina: Yeah, maybe. [00:07:03] Brett: What I realized though, is right, just beating on things, um, I wasn. Political as I remember being, I was just, I was a drunk punk, just out for the, the punk points, I guess. [00:07:18] Christina: Right, Which makes sense. Well, yeah, I was gonna say cuz one of the guys in your band had like an A, C, A B, like it looked like a tattoo, but it probably wasn’t a real tattoo. [00:07:26] Brett: No, it was a real [00:07:27] Christina: I was real tattoo and I was like, I was like, I was like, this is like 98 or 99. I was like, okay, that’s, that’s pretty badass. But like also, you know, that’s 23 years ago, so not what I was like, that definitely wasn’t a term that I knew back then, but I was also like 15 years old, so, you know, um, and lived in the suburbs, so, you know, we were like, fuck the cops, but mostly because they would pull us over and like, give us tickets. [00:07:56] Right. [00:07:56] Brett: were an, they were an inconvenience [00:08:00] Christina: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It was, it was completely, because it was inconvenience, it was like nothing to do with like actual, like systemic like violence or anything else like that, because like, [00:08:10] Brett: we used to have this thing called cop watch in Minneapolis. It may still be a thing, but I’m curious because Jeff has a better memory of cop watch than I do. Uh, how would you describe Cop Watch? [00:08:23] Jeffrey: Cop watch was a bunch of drunk punks walking around looking for police who have pulled people over so that they can watch them, and it was a, it. [00:08:34] Brett: with video [00:08:35] Jeffrey: With video cameras and the people I knew who were in cop watch, which on the face of it is a, is a perfectly, you know, reasonable and, and, and, you know, admirable sort of cause, uh, Especially in Minneapolis because what we know about Minneapolis now is, has been true for a very long time. [00:08:54] Um, but cop watch were like punks that got together. I mean, I kind of admired him a little bit, but then when I started to get to know the cop watch guys, I was like, Oh, you guys just get drunk and, and yell at the cops with your video cameras on. Like, [00:09:06] Christina: Right. [00:09:06] Jeffrey: really my, it’s not my jam. [00:09:09] Christina: not very punk actually. [00:09:10] Brett: I remember feeling very noble. It seemed very noble at the time, A night in jail [00:09:14] Jeffrey: it did. It seemed, No, I know. I got really fucked by Cop watch because, um, we were playing a benefit show for Cop Watch and a house at a house party, and it was actually a going away party for one of the kind of. Most sort of involved members who was moving to like California or something. And, um, and the police by this point, the Minneapolis police had, you know, they, they were just looking for an opportunity to fuck with the cop, watch people if they had it. [00:09:41] And, and this was a, and this was a known, this house my brother lived in, a bunch of people lived in it, but it was also known to. You know, like cop watch leaders in it and cop watch meetings in it and whatever. So we were playing a show. We were the only band playing. We played the basement, um, which is a place we had played before. [00:09:56] Cause my brother lived in the house and you know, sometimes the skinheads would come and steal the keg and, you know, it was kind of that kind of scene. Um, but we had a policy, if we were playing house shows, if the police came to just close our eyes. For like plausible deniability, like we didn’t know there were police here and we just keep going with it. [00:10:15] And then they would eventually [00:10:16] Christina: that worked completely. [00:10:18] Jeffrey: the way it would, it bought us a minute or so. And uh, and it was thrilling to do, if I’m being honest. It was just kind of like, Oh my God, I’m just gonna close my eyes and I have no idea what the fuck’s gonna happen. Um, but they would cut the power, cut the lights or whatever, and then we’d get out. [00:10:31] But it, so that was a normal thing. But in this case, when the noise complaint came in, They were ready. Like they, So basically they came in and they were just like, Everybody out. Everybody out. And when we got out to the front of the house, there were five or six squad cars and a police helicopter. [00:10:47] Brett: Which in Minneapolis was known as the Ghetto Bird, which Code 13 had a song. [00:10:52] Jeffrey: Right. Uh, and they were just grabbing people and throwing ’em in squad cars, like very randomly, like, you know, like kind of young. I remember seeing a young girl get kind of grabbed and, you know, and, um, and, and I noticed that my cousin who had, who had been drinking a lot was like in a sort of verbal altercation with the police, and they like took him down and I, I rushed over there, um, yelling at them to let him go and, They stood up and pointed, just like pulled out the mace and pointed it at me and they’re like, Get away, get back. [00:11:28] And I wasn’t a big drinker, didn’t do drugs. I am just the kind of person who thought at that moment to say, You can’t mace me. I’m a rock and roll drummer. [00:11:39] Christina: Oh my God, [00:11:40] Jeffrey: And at which 0.3 police like emptied their fucking [00:11:45] Brett: Turns out. [00:11:46] Christina: Turns out. [00:11:47] Jeffrey: and cuffed, and cuffed me and threw me in the back of a car. And then they, they squeezed two other people next to me so that they had to like, kind of breathe in. [00:11:55] I was just like, I was like emanating, you know, tear gas or whatever, pepper spray. And, um, and they took me in a bunch of other people downtown and, and as they handed me off, they, it was an underground jail at this point. It was in our old city hall, so I had no idea that was there. They’d drive us like underground. [00:12:11] I’m like, I don’t know what the fuck’s gonna happen. Like I had had a friend. Uh, a singer in a band of mine when I was in high school told me that he was once taken by Minneapolis Police down to a specific point on a riverbank, and they threw leather jacket over him and started beating him. And so I knew they had like spots, but I’m like, there’s no way the basement of city Hall’s one of their spots. [00:12:31] Brett: Catacombs, [00:12:32] Jeffrey: So outcome some other police. And when they hand me. The guy goes, Watch out. This one’s a mean one. And I was like, I’m not mean . Like, I just didn’t like that you were beaten on my cousin. Like I’m, I’m a rock and roll drummer. I’m not mean, uh, [00:12:48] Christina: not mean. I’m, I’m, I’m just a dumb enough guy to like yell at the cops and [00:12:53] Jeffrey: Well, my brother recently, yeah, my brother was the singer in the band, and he recently reminded me a part I had forgotten, which is after they maced me, my response was to yell, I. [00:13:07] Christina: So they think you’re high too. They’re like, [00:13:10] Jeffrey: Right. And I’m totally not like, [00:13:11] Christina: not. Right. [00:13:12] Jeffrey: I’ve had that problem, I’ve had that problem my whole life where friends or whatever I’ve had inter, I had an intervention in junior high where three of my friends sat me down in the cafeteria and they’re like, Hey, we’re, we know you’re doing speed. And, you know, and I’m like, I’m like, No, this is just me. [00:13:27] Like, I’m not, I’m just, I’m only in like second gear right now. But anyway, the like, crazy thing about that, I re, I went back a couple years ago. To get my mugshots from that time. Cause it’s a long time ago. This is like 96 probably. And uh, and as a reporter, I had been down to get documents from the police all the time. [00:13:46] And I went in and I said, I’m looking for a mugshot. They’re like, Okay, what was the name? Jeffrey Gunzel birth, date of birth. Give him my date of birth. They come back like, all we have it. Um, What’s your name? Like Jeffrey Goel. . Like, I am just here getting my own mugshot from 20 years ago or whatever. The close of that, cuz Brett, I don’t mean to like take your punk rock story too far. [00:14:09] Uh, [00:14:10] Brett: exactly what I wanted from this. [00:14:12] Jeffrey: is, um, so we spent the night in jail, which was really, was a experience for me that I, um, draw upon constantly because it is the case that even a night in jail, I had a friend who did. Uh, five or six years in jail and, and had asked if I’d ever been arrested in jail. I said, Well, I did an overnight. And, and she was like, That counts. [00:14:37] And the, the experience was, it was so packed that night that I was wedged next to a toilet, um, which was just an open space and, and people would come over. And p and it would splash on me and I couldn’t move. And the other thing I remembered, which is very Minneapolis, very America, but very Minneapolis, is that one half of this room was black, the other half was white. [00:15:01] Like everyone was perfectly segregated. And I don’t, I don’t remember noticing anybody else, anybody Hispanic, anybody, you know, like whatever. But like one half was black, one half was, was. And, um, and then I will never forget, they, they brought in after hours and hours of being in there, they brought us, um, like shrink wrapped apples. [00:15:21] And, and I’m sitting next to a toilet with my shrink crafted apple. I’m super fucking hungry, but I’m not. Anyway, the entire experience was like really powerful. It’s just powerful to know you’re in a place you can’t leave. Like it, it’s really, I’ve visited prisons many times and I remember once I used to visit people on death row, um, as part of a volunteer thing I did. [00:15:41] And I remember counting all of the locked doors as they locked behind me, as I went towards the, you know, Death row area and, and what an intense feeling it was to know that like I am in a place, in that case, I could ask to leave, which everyone else can’t, but like, I can’t just leave. Like there’s so much between me and the outside. [00:16:01] And, and even in that overnight it was, that was such a, Intensely strong feeling of, of the control and power they had over me. Right. Uh, and, and I’m, I’m glad I had that experience, uh, because it, it, it, even though it was like a micro, micro version of what it’s like to go to jail for longer or whatever, it’s not, it’s not nothing [00:16:22] Christina: No, you got, you had to, You gotta actually experience, but also like that, that’s, It’s, I it’s funny cuz it’s like, it is kind of punk to, to get to, I mean, it’s for a hilarious reason. Like you had a party, so it’s like the least punk reason to, to get like arrested, [00:16:39] Jeffrey: Right [00:16:40] Christina: but, [00:16:41] Brett: My only overnights were after protests, so they were also packed. But I can tell you, um, as far as that like idea of not being able to leave, uh, if you think junk sick sounds bad, imagine getting junk sick in the middle of the night in a room you can’t leave. That is an awful feeling. [00:17:02] Jeffrey: I bet. I bet. [00:17:04] Brett: It makes you hate everybody. [00:17:06] Jeffrey: I’m sure Well, okay, so that story closes with us going to court. Uh, three of us. The three that were in the car, the two that were in the car with me and they, the police had behaved so incredibly. Um, Wrong and, and, and against law and order, um, that it was clear our case was gonna be dropped, but our attorney, which was an illegal aid attorney, had to go in and make that argument to the judge. [00:17:31] It’s like, you know, look, this, what the police did that night was really messed up. You can either have that be a thing we talk about for a long time, or you can let these guys go. And before the lawyer went into the, he’s like, Okay, who’s, who’s Sean? Right? Who’s Michael? Who’s Jeff? Right. And, and who is it that. [00:17:48] You can’t mace me. I’m a rock and roll drummer. . I was like that. That was me, sir. just like, Oh my God. Anyway, Cop watch . Sorry, Brett. Brett’s. I wanna describe Brett’s video quickly, which is, That was amazing about Brett’s video is Brett had hair first of (Young) Brett Terpstra fit check [00:18:07] Christina: I wanted to bring this up. I was like, Brett [00:18:09] Jeffrey: Yes. Describe, Describe him. Fit. [00:18:12] Check. Describe him [00:18:13] Christina: Yeah, no, So, so the, the, the, like, the great like head of like blonde hair, you know, is just like, like a good hairline too, which I was looking at. I was like, I’m surprised you went as bald as you went because like your hairline was good then. [00:18:29] Like did it just, And I am curious, like did it just, like, was it a, a pretty quick thing that your, your hairline just kind of like fucked up? [00:18:37] Brett: I had a widows peak as a kid. Um, like I always had like Eddie Munster, Widows Peak. [00:18:43] Christina: Sure. [00:18:44] Brett: But yeah, like when I turned, I think about 25, I started getting the bald spot in the back and my hairline started receding. And within a year I just shaved my head and I’ve had it shaved ever since. Uh, or buzzed. [00:19:00] Christina: Which is the right, which is, Yeah, no, which is, which is the move, like if you can’t get on the Propecia early, like you can get on Propecia. Um, me and uh, Justin Williams are both obsessed with hairlines, and we talk to each other about this a lot because we’re like, If [00:19:12] Brett: Williams, a software developer. Okay, [00:19:16] Christina: Yeah. Justin Williams software developer who’s also. [00:19:20] The male version of me, if anyone is unaware of this, if anyone knows who he is, he and I are like, genuinely like the male female version of one another. We’re like twins. It’s very bizarre. Um, our personalities are remarkably similar, but yeah. If, if this is happening, like you can get on Propecia, if you have the, um, you know, the Elon or the, the Jeremy Watson space money to get like the, the good like transplant surgery, you can do that, you know, Propecia. [00:19:47] But the thing with Propecia, like you have to start it early. Like you can’t start it late, right? Like, [00:19:52] Brett: I gotta say waking up in the morning and not having to worry about your hair. [00:19:57] Christina: Oh yeah. Bet’s great. No. Well, the thing is, like, I was gonna say though, but this is what I appreciate about you. Like, if you’re not gonna do the preventative stuff, and if you’re not gonna do like the, you know, um, the, the Alan and the Jeremy, fuck, what is his last name? The guy from Entourage, last name starts with a p. [00:20:16] Brett: I would not know the [00:20:18] Jeffrey: Oh, Jeremy’s spoken class [00:20:19] Christina: Jeremy pn. Jeremy pn. Jeremy pn who was fucking bald. No, he like had bad, like he like was fucking bald. He has like one of the best hair transplants. Jude Law is another one. Great, great. Like uh, natural hair transplant work. If you’re not gonna do that, and if you’re not gonna get on the Propecia, then you gotta just, you gotta embrace it. [00:20:37] You just gotta shave it. Right? Like, which I really appreciate that you did like the right thing cuz there’s nothing that is sadder than like somebody who you know is bald. and then they’re just like hanging on to every little thing. It’s like, no, dude, you, you gotta shave the head. [00:20:52] Brett: My dad. My dad went balded pretty young and four years not, It’s not a comb over when you, when when you don’t have enough hair to actually cover anything up. You just have the like wisp that you like comb into place and four years for, for decades. My dad just had. A little bit of hair, and he grew out what he could, and he like combed it over. [00:21:20] Uh, finally at the age of like 70, he started buzzing his hair and it looks great. He looks good. I, it looks a lot less sad [00:21:32] Christina: have done, he should have done it 30 years earlier. Yeah. [00:21:35] Brett: You know, those, you know, those middle school band teachers that like, they’re balled on top, but they have the ponytail. That’s a horrible look. I feel like the Simpsons epitomized that pretty well in cartoon [00:21:48] Christina: Yeah. The, The Simpsons and King of the hill. The king of the hill, I think. Um, too. Yeah. But, but 100%. [00:21:53] Brett: I feel like it’s a trope. I feel like everyone has had like one band teacher or one music teacher that had the ponytail in the bald spot. [00:22:05] Jeffrey: Well, [00:22:06] Brett: So, so, so the takeaway from those concert videos was the hair. Is that, is that safe to say? [00:22:13] Jeffrey: uh, I have a takeaway. Um, you guys, uh, you know, Doing Paradise City, um, which we’ve since learned was a faithful enough cover that you got a YouTube, uh, [00:22:28] Brett: you two put a [00:22:29] Jeffrey: Copyright. Yeah. . But it’s funny, I don’t know why I’ve been, I’ve been in sort of a guns and Roses phase and thinking about those guys. Um, Just thinking about their sort of really weird history and how there’s a whole phase where, you know, the guitarist bucket head is the slash of Guns and roses and like it’s all so interesting. [00:22:50] But anyway, um, that song, its components are so fucking solid that you guys could just basically make it up cuz you were just like, Yeah, let’s try it. Well, the drummer did, drummer claims he didn’t remember. That was his way of hoping not to have to play [00:23:06] Brett: He remembered the [00:23:08] Jeffrey: No. He remembered everything. He had just, he told your, your singer’s like, Should we do the cover? [00:23:13] What do you think everybody? And he’s like, I forgot it. It was like, nobody forgot Paradise [00:23:17] Brett: me and Dego loved doing that song. Maddie and, And Clay did. They hated playing [00:23:24] Jeffrey: Well, so here’s the thing. Here’s the thing. When that song kicks into, right, like it is all, each of the components of that song are so solid that they can be mishandled terribly. Right. Um, [00:23:40] Christina: It’s like, it’s like a well written like song. Yeah. [00:23:42] Jeffrey: like it still rocks, [00:23:46] Christina: Well, no, cuz because that’s, that’s the thing about them, right? I think that’s why they were like, like the one kind of like band of that era that like actually did still sustain into like 91, like in the grunge thing. Like they still had hits because they had solid songs. Whereas like, and again, this is like you guys’ oi way more than mine cuz I was a small child and this was also not my music, but this. [00:24:09] Like for, from what I understand, what, what my, going back and listening to like the reason that the other bands of that era didn’t really transcend, in addition to just the whole look thing, not, not matching with what people were wanting to do and, and Axle being able to be much more like fit into, into that realm. [00:24:27] I think the songs were just better. Like, they were more solid like songs where you could be like, Dammit, I hate this whole scene, but all right, that’s a good ass song. Fuck it, you. [00:24:37] Brett: Guns and Roses had an anger to them that a band like Rat or Poison just never did. Um, and I feel like that that played to their, uh, their popularity. [00:24:51] Christina: No, I think you’re right. [00:24:52] Brett: I put these videos up on YouTube as unlisted videos. I am dropping links to them in the show notes. So if anyone is curious what Brett was doing at the age of 20, [00:25:04] Christina: It was [00:25:04] Jeffrey: It’s a fun, It’s really fun to watch. [00:25:08] Brett: Yeah. Um, , it was fun for me. Yeah. Christina and the Coulda Wouldas [00:25:13] Christina: No, it was really, it was really great to see and, and like it looked like you guys were having a great time and I was, I was looking at it and I was like, Oh man, you guys must have gotten so laid. Because, because like you had like a good look and, and like, I was like, I, you know, because I, I was, I mean, it was emo bands, but like, I would, I, you know, not, not that far as first from that era. [00:25:33] Like I would go to a lot of shows and stuff and like stalk guys and bands and like, I was like, Yeah, you guys must have been so late, like, [00:25:41] Brett: So you would think and, and there were definitely, like, I offended off advances. Like I had a steady girlfriend that I was pretty damn committed to, and uh, Deo was the only one in the band who would cheat on his girlfriend, who was with us on tour. Um, [00:26:03] Jeffrey: Whoa, that’s, that’s next level. [00:26:06] Brett: Mattie Mattie had very little interest in girls, and I don’t, I don’t remember Clay’s situation, but yeah, basically there, there was not a lot of sex on that tour. [00:26:17] Um, I remember being drunk in basements and pushing girls off of me. Um, I had a girl tell me, I had a girl tell me she had taken the picture from our seven inch and blown it up and put it over her bed. , which that’s, that’s weird. Yeah, that’s weird. That’s weird. [00:26:42] Christina: I, I would never have shared that, but I understand like the impulse to do that. I never [00:26:45] Jeffrey: Oh, I understand that. I understand the impulse. A thousand percent. [00:26:49] Christina: I just pasted in the chat the band that I stalked when I was like 15, 16 years old and, uh, no, I went, No, we’ll talk about that cuz Wow. That’s some good drama. No, this, this is a band called Saves the Day. [00:27:02] And uh, and [00:27:04] Jeffrey: photo. [00:27:05] Christina: yeah, so I’m just saying like if those guys were, were getting like, yeah. Yeah. Than you guys who totally like had a much more masculine, much more like, you know what I mean? Like a much more, kind of a better like vibe, like their, their debut albums called Through Being Cool, [00:27:25] Jeffrey: Awesome, [00:27:26] Christina: which [00:27:27] Jeffrey: awesome. [00:27:28] Christina: thought they were, they were not, but we really thought they were. [00:27:32] Um, My, uh, my, my friends Melissa and Cat and I would follow ’em all over the southeast and then, uh, and they all had girlfriends, which of course then Melissa, and we would make out with them because now they were not dumb enough to travel, like with the girl, like tour with the girlfriends and then cheat on their girlfriends. [00:27:48] But of course, they’re all gonna like, you know, m with other girls and like, I’m aware of this. I’m like, I know you have girlfriends. I know that I’m making out with you and you do not care anything about me. I absolutely know the score. Cat and Melissa apparently never got the message and like got into fights on the message boards with the girlfriends, and then we were like, it became awkward and I was kind of like, I can never go to these shows again. [00:28:09] And then like two years later, they’re on fucking Kona O’Brien. And I’m like, Are you kidding me? Like they really actually blew up. And I was like, Those bitches. Not being like, chill completely ruined my ability to like maybe actually fuck a rockstar. Like I will, I will never forgive them for that. [00:28:28] Brett: None of my girlfriends have ever cared about my music. It has always been like an external thing. Oh, and then also he plays, I was just a bass player who cares about bass players? [00:28:41] Christina: I dunno. The bass player was, Who was the, was that the, was that the guy that like didn’t have a name in? Um, that thing you do. Was that? Yeah, that was the bass player. This is a movie that only I have seen. I now realize [00:28:51] Brett: sis, my sister loved that movie so much. My sister had poster from that movie. I cannot remember it at all. [00:28:57] Christina: Yeah, that, that was one with Live Tyler. And, uh, uh, what was it, something Ian, a three name guy. Um, it was Tom Hanks’. Uh, I think he directed it, or it was definitely his, his production company that made it. But it was about kind of like the, the band, uh, like, kind of like a sixties band sort of thing. Um, and, uh, it was that, that was a great movie. Tom, Tom Everett. Scott. There we go. Tom Everett. Scott. [00:29:26] Jeffrey: Tom Hanks’ son once sat in my lap. [00:29:29] Christina: Oh, wow. Which one? [00:29:30] Jeffrey: Colin Hanks. [00:29:31] Christina: Okay, Colin. Hank. So, I was gonna say not, not yet. Not, not, not the, not the problematic one. I mean, [00:29:36] Jeffrey: I didn’t know. I didn’t know who he was. and I told, and I told him to sit in my lap. I, the context is my band had a reunion show and, and a friend of mine here, Is friends with him and he brought him to the show and we were backstage after the show and I was sitting on a chair and I was kind of sweaty and, and my friend says, Hey guys, this is Colin. [00:30:00] He’s like, Colin, here they are your new favorite band. He’s like, You guys are great. And I’m like, Come here. Sit on my lap. I sat on my lap and I just said, I appreciate you. And he got up and then I later I was like, That was Tom, he’s son. That’s funny. [00:30:14] Brett: Did you ever see life in pieces? [00:30:16] Jeffrey: No. [00:30:17] Christina: Yes. That that was the show he was in, right? Or one of the shows he was in. Yeah, [00:30:21] Brett: show. I have watched that entire show a couple times through and through, uh, really, really good situational comedy. Fun-fact attack [00:30:30] Christina: Yeah, he was also in, in the movie Orange County, which not the same as the, the, the, the much superior television show, the oc, but Orange County, which had Jack Black in it, but Fun Fact, California by Fandom Planet. Uh, the theme song of the OC was actually on the Orange County soundtrack, and so they almost didn’t [00:30:50] Jeffrey: you’re bringing the fun facts [00:30:51] Christina: I know, so they almost didn’t choose it as the theme song for the oc, and it’s. Other than, I don’t wanna wait by Paula Cole, probably like the most iconic like, teen theme song ever. Right? Like, like, like, like, like those two songs. Cuz they were actual, you know, songs are like intertwined. Like you hear it, you hear the opening notes of the OC theme song and you’re like fuck Know it. [00:31:13] Right? And like they almost, that almost wasn’t the theme song because it was in this movie that no one saw. And fortunately they were like, No one saw the movie, didn’t do anything. We can go ahead and put, you know, uh, Sophia Coppola’s cousins band on, on, Make it the theme song. We, we can go ahead and do that. [00:31:34] Brett: I’m gonna ask Erin to write, uh, a little Diddy that we can play after this kind of thing where we can be like, and this has been deep cuts with Christina Warren. [00:31:46] Jeffrey: I was gonna say, I appreciate your level of fandom so much cuz I share it, but we’re just in when we have it in totally different places and uh, and so I ha when you’re talking. About these things I’m taking in the content, but I’m also just appreciating the level of like weird facts. Cuz I, I, I do this to my friends all the time and they’re just like, Now where the fuck could you learn that? [00:32:09] Like, I think I recently did we talk about how Pat Smear was late to a Fu fighter show in Minneapolis and why have we talked [00:32:16] Christina: No, we haven’t. We should talk about it. [00:32:17] Jeffrey: in 1996, I went to see the Foo Fighters was the second time in that year that they played at, at, uh, First Avenue. And. It was when they had their drummer before Taylor, Taylor Hawkins, who was truly terrible as a fit. [00:32:31] Uh, I mean like really. I went back and listened to a boot leg of that show in 1996 and it’s just, that band actually sounds terrible. Um, anyway, so I go to see the poo fighters and, and um, they’re late going on and it’s like, get kind of used to that. In those days there was just a lot of junkie bands. In that era, you know, when we’re going to see Allison Chains at First Avenue and dude like showed up about 20 minutes late and then their first song, the drummer, the drummer jumped from his kit and and tackled Lane Staley punched him, and then the whole band was done. [00:33:05] Christina: God. [00:33:06] Jeffrey: Um, but anyway, uh, so the food fighters are late and I recently was reading a some piece about that tour that was written way back then. The reason they were late is because Pat Smear, who had been in the legendary punk rock band, the germs, like the most uncontrollable possible kind of band with Darby Crash, their singer just a mess of a band. [00:33:25] So you’re assuming if you hear that Pat Smear is late, that it’s junky stuff. Right. [00:33:30] Christina: Right. [00:33:31] Jeffrey: He lost track of time watching a Matlock marathon in the hotel. [00:33:36] Christina: That is amazing. That’s, that’s the fucking best. The guy from the germs is like, it’s, it’s not junky. I mean, it might have been junky shit. I don’t know. But that, that actually sounds more like ADHD shit. Like that sounds like a reason that I would not go to college would be like, I was watching like an ER marathon, [00:33:51] Jeffrey: Yeah. [00:33:52] Christina: also a Malo marathon. [00:33:53] I can totally see it. You get sucked in and you’re like, But Andy Griffith is gonna solve the case and it’s [00:33:59] Jeffrey: I gotta know what [00:34:00] Christina: I gotta know what happens. I gotta see the lawyer scene. Right. [00:34:03] Jeffrey: Fucking a amazing, um, anyway, that’s, that, that’s an example of my level of fandom is I just love those little tidbits are just so remarkable. That was a fun, that was an amazing show in the sense that listening back to the, um, bootleg of it, they, they basically played the first album except for one song, which, which Dave Girl introduced as something they had written a couple weeks ago. [00:34:26] And it was my hero, [00:34:28] Christina: Right. Which is, [00:34:28] Jeffrey: which like becomes like the. [00:34:30] Christina: the, I was gonna say cuz it was my hero and it was big. Me and, and a couple others from that sec. Yeah. Well, ever long. But that was the third album I think. But [00:34:38] Jeffrey: That’s true. Yeah. Oh, right. You’re talking in that, Yeah, [00:34:41] Christina: Because, I mean cuz it was the second album that they really like blew up, right? [00:34:45] Because cuz I remember obviously my hero was big, but I also remember, like I remember the Ever, I remember the big me music video, like they spoofed the Mintos ads. Do you guys remember [00:34:53] Jeffrey: yeah. The Mentos ads. That’s right. Yeah. [00:34:55] Christina: Yeah. Uh, and, and it was, it was one of those things where like, and he had, uh, it, it was just a great music video and it was one of those things where we were at least people my age. [00:35:05] We knew Nirvana obviously. Um, but we mostly were really aware of Nirvana, like post Kurt’s death. But, you know, MTV would air the, the Unplugged like. [00:35:18] Jeffrey: All the time. [00:35:19] Christina: on on repeats. So for a lot of us, like we, we knew him and, and I think we weren’t alone in this, like certainly people my age, but, but I think even people older, I think even like guys your age, like you maybe knew the, knew the band members more, but a lot of us, like we just knew Dave as like the drummer, right? [00:35:34] We just knew him as the drummer of Nirvana. And so that’s what you associate him with. And I think especially you see him all the time on MTV playing the drums. In that unplug setting right? Where, you know, which, where he has to hold back the turtleneck where he is having to hold back and like, and, and he’s having to kind of like very, kind of slowly play the drums in certain segments and whatnot. [00:35:55] And like you, and you know that, and then all of a sudden, like he has this very different band and he’s the singer, he’s not the drummer. And you’re like, What the fuck? Right? Um, and it was really good. Right? And then, [00:36:06] Jeffrey: especially those first two albums. I, I love, I don’t get with anything else. I don’t, I’m not against it, but I just don’t get [00:36:12] Christina: No, no, no. But I think, I think, um, I think actually I would say up through like, what was it? Uh, you know, uh, the first two albums were really good. And then I would say the third one too, right? The one like, uh, learned to Fly, like, I would say like probably like, like the, the first three, um, are, are really solid. [00:36:29] I saw them in, uh, last October with depth cap for cutie. They opened a, a brand new, um, uh, venue in, um, in Seattle, The, the Climate Change Arena, which is the most bullshit name for a, a [00:36:42] Jeffrey: Is that where you go to change the. [00:36:44] Christina: Well, and it’s so stupid. They’re like, Oh, we care so much about carbon control this. And then I’m like, No, you fucking don’t. [00:36:49] Like it’s the most, This is the sort of woke shit that I can’t stand because it’s so performative and it’s so [00:36:54] Jeffrey: change arena? I don’t believe it. [00:36:57] Christina: No, and it’s not. And they’re like, I’m, I’m like, Well, but you’re, you’re, It’s an, it’s a rock arena. You’re clearly not gonna be doing a whole lot for climate change. [00:37:06] You know what I mean? Like, there’s gonna be a whole lot of, of stuff that goes into this is such a fucking stupid name and such a performative. Stuff. Anyway, that opened and Food Fighters were the first, um, uh, band to play and then Death Cap, um, opened for them and I was able to get tickets and I’m so glad I got to go. [00:37:23] I was sick. I was not feeling good. We had to actually leave early, which kills me now, but, I saw most of the, the, the really big hits, which look, let’s, let’s face it. Like that’s why you go to a fu fighter show, right? Like, you know, at this point, like you’re not going to see like all the new shit. Like, and they knew that they were amazing live and, and I, like Taylor was great and I remember I was commenting to Grant, I was like, they have this sort of star power. [00:37:48] Especially for rock stars that you almost never see today of people who just have like a complete command of the audience and, and a large audience. Right. You know, this is decent sized arena. Not a stadium, but a decent sized arena. And they, you know, had like the whole command of everything. They knew what they were doing. [00:38:03] It was really, really good. And it’s just, you know, now I’m really glad I gotta see that show even as sick as I was because, um, That’s the last time. We’ll, you know, I, I ever got to see the band actually, you know, intact together. But, but that is funny that, that, that Taylor Hawkins, you said that he was not like that. [00:38:23] It didn’t work. That’s really, really funny. [00:38:26] Jeffrey: Oh yeah, the guy. Okay, let me just, let me, [00:38:31] Brett: at the end of the window. Go ahead, [00:38:33] Jeffrey: I’ll say this, which is just the guy, the guy that was the first drummer just was, it was an awful fit and, and it’s, uh, sorry for him that he lost that gig, but it, when I listened back to the tape of that show, I was like, this doesn’t even sound like a good band. [00:38:48] that’s how much the drummer sort of [00:38:49] Christina: He was not it. And, and then they, and then, and they get a lot of more sets, like session drummer and they’re like, Here we. [00:38:54] Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Sponsor: Simplisafe [00:38:56] Brett: So here’s a question. Is there anything that matters more than the safety of you and your loved ones? Of course not. So isn’t it strange that many home security companies don’t act that way? This is why we use and trust simply save home security. 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Plus 20% off with interactive monitoring that go to simply safe.com/ Overtired. That’s S I M P L I S A e.com/ Overtired. [00:40:24] Jeffrey: Crap. I’m still chewing my Grano bar. [00:40:26] Brett: Oh, man, that was, that was your segue to handle right there. Promo Swap: Weirds of a Feather [00:40:31] Brett: Um, so before, before we go on, I think we we’re doing, we’re doing promo swaps with some other podcasts that are, uh, related to what we talk about. And there’s one called, uh, Weirds of a Feather [00:40:48] Christina: Yup. [00:40:49] Brett: that really, uh, very, it focuses on ADHD and, and I feel like it’s a good mix, good match for us. Christina, do you want to tell us about, weirdly a [00:41:01] Christina: Uh, definitely. So if you were all cut up with Overtired and you’re looking for more random yet informative discussions, flock over to Weirds of a Feather, which is an ADHD adjacent podcast. Cohost and childhood friends, Grace Bore and Kristen Stan. Hope will take you on a journey through the beautiful, chaotic experience of life with adhd. [00:41:22] Some describe weirds of a feather as the Puppy Bowl for any serious ADHD podcast, Super Bowl. I love that. While others feel like they are hanging out with their two neuro divergent ants, Weekly episodes are jam packed with an effort rotating schedule of segments, such as the ADHD learning corner, hobby collectors. [00:41:39] Little accomplishments and a leading favorite quote. I’m so quirky. If you are looking for a unique podcast that encourages you to embrace your weirdness, this is the one. Check out weirds of a feather today, wherever you listen to podcasts. Brett’s new Synology [00:41:53] Brett: So let’s do a little tech talk. I, uh, so my sonology started resetting and it has a faulty reset button. Um, And instead of trying to deal with repair, I just ordered a new analogy. I got the, uh, DS 1520 plus, um, and I put, I put 2 2, 400 gigabyte Ss d. Cash cards into it, poured all of my hard drives over, Added an extra hot swap drive because I went from four bays to five bays and holy shit, everything is so much faster than my 4 8 19 4. [00:42:36] Forts. I don’t even remember what I had before. Uh, it was, it was slow. Compared to this, I’m, I’m very impressed with the speed of my new DS 1520 plus. I’m having a blast with it. [00:42:50] Christina: That’s fantastic. I’m really, I’m really glad to hear that, like you’re having a good experience with it. Um, and, and that this is one, you got the one like with still with an Intel, so you can still do the, the Plex stuff, right. [00:43:01] Brett: Right. It can still, it can still video incode. [00:43:04] Christina: Yeah, cuz you were saying that’s the thing with the new ones is that they’re AMD and I guess for whatever reason, they don’t have, um, like an onboard, you know, video thing. So I guess they probably can still encode, but they’d have to do it with CPU wise, so it’d be, uh, slower. So, um, That’s awesome. I’m glad that, that, uh, that you’re enjoying it. [00:43:21] I need to, I needed to get a new, So I’ve been looking into my options and so this is, um, Helpful for me. I was curious because you’re using the, the NVMe cash, um, which I haven’t used on, on any of mine over the years. Ha. Have you found that that’s sped up your operations just in terms of like accessing smaller things? [00:43:40] Brett: So I put the N V MA drives into it from the GetGo, so I have no. I have no grounds for comparing what this particular model would be like without the cash drive. So I don’t, I don’t know exactly what benefit it is providing me. Um, they offer, if you turn on, you can analyze your cash and it takes like a month. [00:44:05] And it, it basically, at the end of a month of running this analysis, it will tell you like exactly what size, cash you should specify and, and how well your cash is performing. And I’ve only had this for a few days, so I. I haven’t run that yet. But, uh, in general, I have to assume, given the speed at which the dsm, not the DSM six, the, the, uh, interface that, uh, Sonology provides for their, uh, for all the software on this machine, um, uh, the speed at which it loads. [00:44:49] 10 times faster than what I had without any [00:44:53] Christina: Right, Which I have to imagine, like, obviously it’s a, it’s a faster machine, but I have to imagine the big part of that is the cash. And, and that definitely is awesome. I have to say, like that’s the big thing that I’ve, I’ve looked at Qnap, I’ve looked at some other solutions, would look at like building my own. [00:45:06] Um, but the thing I think that’s gonna keep me with ology is, I love dsm. Like that’s just, it’s really good software, right? Like, like their interface for managing everything is, is in my opinion, just kind of like top notch. You know? Like it’s just if, if you’re gonna pick one of those systems, it’s really the best. [00:45:26] Brett: again, I have nothing to compare to cuz I’ve never used anything similar before. Uh, I will say that, yeah, I’m constantly impressed with it and, uh, no, no complaints. I know that Jeff has an even better analogy than I do. Um, Have you, Jeff, did you have any Sonology? Did you have one prior to that? [00:45:49] Jeffrey: No, this was my first sonology and it’s also with the cash and lots of cash and . It’s a lovely machine, but I’ve barely used it for, I barely used it for anything beyond just storage. Uh, it brought, you know that, cause I’ve sent you pictures prior to getting the sonology, I, I had a collection of probably 20 external hard drives just over the years that had kind of filled up with stuff. [00:46:13] And I’d be like, I’ll start that later. And. The furthest I’ve even gotten with that Sonology is getting all that stuff onto the sonology. [00:46:21] Brett: I will say that I, I had my concerns. You know, multiple terabytes of data, uh, going from one analogy to another, as long as you put the drives in, in order, uh, even after all of the resetting and, and failures that I had had, all of my data was safe. I didn’t lose anything. Um, I use my son analogy to run private GI server. [00:46:48] Um, so all of my like coding projects that I’m not opensourcing and putting on GitHub, Uh, are all on GI repos on the sinology, and I didn’t lose any of them. I reinstalled the GI server and everything just hooked back up. Uh, grateful that it was so easy, but yeah. Should we, Grapptitude [00:47:13] Christina: Let’s do some gratitude. [00:47:14] Jeffrey: Sheila [00:47:17] Brett: I can’t wait till we have theme music. I just gotta, I just gotta get with Aaron about exactly what we want for our segue here, just imagine if you [00:47:28] Jeffrey: a world [00:47:29] Brett: an amazing, an amazing, very short, like five second segue that let you know this is [00:47:36] Jeffrey: you know what diamond is. Let’s you know to shut off the faucet if you’re doing the dishes and pay attention. [00:47:40] Brett: All right, Jeff, go ahead. [00:47:41] Jeffrey: This is a sort of, it’s, it’s not exactly gratitude, but it is. Uh, so my 16 year old is, um, loves to do like game dev stuff in Unity, um, and. Has been learning it for the last year and a half or so, maybe even since, kind of midway through the, the shutdown year of the pandemic. [00:48:04] And, um, and they have a challenge. There’s a challenge called Luum Dare, which is this like, you know, Friday through Monday challenge to develop a game on a theme. So they announced the theme and you just go to work. And people do it individually, they do it, um, in pairs. My son did it in pairs with a friend of his who lives in Chicago, and it was so cool to watch. [00:48:27] Like he was just, I mean, not that this is good practice or good thing to teach kids, uh, but he was at his computer, um, doing coding and doing some blender, like 3D rendering stuff from Friday through Monday, uh, morning when he went to. And, um, and he was on the, on a Discord chat with his friend, and they, they, so here’s, here’s what was so amazing about it. [00:48:52] So my gratitude is that is the, is for the whole Unity community in this case, at least in the, the way that he’s experienced it. Um, they had a theme, which was every 10 seconds. That was the theme. And so he and his friend developed a game where essentially there’s a level and you are alive for 10 seconds. [00:49:10] And you die and come back with a new power, and you have just enough time to figure out what that power is to try to get you through the level before the 10 seconds runs up and you die and you come back with another new power. Um, and, and it was just really cool. I’ve never, this is the first time I’ve seen him in a real, like dev state basically. [00:49:27] And it was just super cool to see. Like I I, I loved watching it. I loved how much fun he had and they have the best, This is what I love, is that once you’re done, all of the people who, um, made games, Depending on, So if you’re a developer, you made a game. If you play five games, your game won’t end up getting recommended that much in the algorithm. [00:49:48] But if you play. 20 games that other people developed, or a hundred games that other people developed. Your game shows up more in the algorithm when people are searching for games from the challenge to play. And so by participating with other people’s work, your work gets more out there, um, which I thought was just such a cool. [00:50:06] Just a cool rule. So anyway, just, um, loving that he’s found a sort of home to learn coding and, and, and modeling and all of that stuff in, and just gra gratitude. I got nothing but gratitude for it. It’s fun to watch. I was jealous too. I wanna make a [00:50:23] Brett: Crap. Did [00:50:23] Christina: Yeah, totally. [00:50:26] Jeffrey: anyway. All right. Who else? [00:50:28] Christina: I, I can actually go, or if you’re, Are you ready Brett? Okay. So I don’t think we ever talked about this one. If we did then correct me, but the, you talking about Unity and your son making games actually made me think of, uh, this, cuz I don’t think we talked about this. It’s called, uh, the Apple Store time machine. [00:50:43] And it was, uh, a Unity thing that was created by, uh, Michael Siper, who, um, basically taught himself steeper, sorry, Michael Seber, who basically taught him. Unity and are, Have either of you seen this? [00:50:56] Jeffrey: No, I’m looking it up [00:50:57] Christina: Okay, so this came out, uh, I think at the end of July. It got a lot of links on the blogs. We didn’t talk about it, but it’s actually awesome. [00:51:05] It is, uh, a works on, on, um, Apple, Silicon and on Intel, and it is basically like a, a history, like a walkthrough of the Apple Store at certain iconic times in history. So like, and it’s like, and, and what he’s done is he’s basically gone through and gotten the layouts of certain stores at certain. And recreated in unity in 3d exactly what those stores looked back, looked like on their opening day. [00:51:33] So you have the, the Tyson store, uh, Tyson’s Corner store, which was the very first Apple store, uh, from 2001. There’s like one in, in a, a mini store inside a Stanford shopping mall. There’s the Fifth Avenue store from 2006, and then the Infinite Loop Company store from 2015. And the level of detail that is in this, [00:51:55] Jeffrey: This is amazing. There’s emax, emax, [00:51:58] Christina: Eax. Not only that, but like, like every level of detail, like the software packages, like if you go in through the Fifth Avenue store in 2006, like you see like every like piece of software that was, you know, that he basically went through photographs and he recreated them all in unity. And um, you can even do things like turn on some of the eax, like they’re a little, um, like, uh, like Easter eggs, uh, within these things. [00:52:20] And it is completely like era appropriate. It is. So, it’s such a trip to basically, Walk through memory lane, like seeing the old software boxes was like a real trip for [00:52:30] Jeffrey: Yeah, The softer boxes, [00:52:33] Christina: And, and, and it’s like you can zoom in enough and you can actually see like, this is like what, like the, the apps were and what was on display. [00:52:39] And like in 2001, I’d forgotten how much, um, because, you know, at the time Apple didn’t have a bunch of stuff to sell. So like, they didn’t even have the iPod yet. So like a lot of what they had like on display is they had like the Nomad and they had other non, uh, you know, Apple music things, but they had a ton of consumer electronics. [00:52:58] Like there was [00:52:58] Jeffrey: Oh my God. Toast [00:53:00] Christina: Yeah. But, but there, there, there’s like a shitload of. Can MiniDV cameras and stuff, you know, on display, because again, they didn’t have much to sell. Right. So, you know, it, it, it was Power Books and iBooks and, and Eax and imax and like, that was, that was kind of it. And uh, anyway, it’s an incredible. [00:53:19] L uh, labor of, of love and attention to detail. Um, it’s free. You can download to, to, uh, you can donate to him on, on Gum Road. Um, he’s also like, open for work, but this is just one of like the most incredible, um, like apps that I’ve seen, um, that somebody kind of create. And it, you talked about Unity reminded me of that because that was sort of his impetus. [00:53:42] Like he wanted to learn unity and he did. And it’s amazing. [00:53:46] Jeffrey: I, I am amazed. I mean, I’m surprised. I loved the idea as you described it, but as I, I pulled up the website and it’s got the sort of walkthroughs already. I was amazed at how much I, like my hormones were releasing . I [00:53:58] Christina: Yes. Yes. [00:54:03] Jeffrey: Oh, it’s awesome. Thank you, Brett. Brett Strip. [00:54:09] Christina: Hm. [00:54:10] Brett: All right. I was, I was gonna talk about na, which is my own project I’ve been consumed with lately, but, I, I’m actually gonna mention post Reno. Um, so it’s a, it’s a photo collaging app. Uh, let me drop a link in here for you guys. Um, there are very few times. That I actually need to collage photos, but, uh, say a pet’s birthday or the death of a pet, I often wanna make a photo collage of, of the best photos available. [00:54:46] Um, , these are in, in, in memory. These are the times that I want a photo collage app. And there are not a lot of good option options for Mac, uh, for easily making. Cool looking photo collages and post Reno fits the bill. I’m currently on the beta for the upcoming version, uh, which is why it’s top of mind for me. [00:55:09] Uh, the new version, uh, at Apple Silicon support full, uh, Ventura support all of this, uh, plus a few new features and, uh, it. It’s suit like you can make a great looking photo, colage in under five minutes. Uh, just dragging a bunch of photos onto a layout and it’ll, it’ll collage them all automatically. And then you can go in, you can individually crop and, and rotate and position, uh, different elements. [00:55:40] You can do like grids, you can do scatters, you can do circular, uh, you can change the frame on each individual image. And like if you, One of my favorite things is if you create a layout, uh, of any, you know, scatter or grid or whatever, select all and then drag one image onto the selection, it will scatter that image so that all of the little photos together make up the big [00:56:10] Jeffrey: Awesome. [00:56:11] Brett: I can’t remember what he calls that, but it, you can make some really cool looking. Images out of that and it, you know, you don’t always need a photo collage app, but when you do post, Reno is one of the best available [00:56:25] Christina: No, that’s awesome. Um, and, and can you, can you print these two or or is it primarily Okay. Cuz I was thinking, I was like, this would be awesome for things for my nephew and, um, you know, I, I like created a photo book for his first birthday in christening. But this would be great, like as an additional thing. [00:56:42] Brett: I, I think you have, I think you have to buy the pro version to print straight from post Reno. Um, and I don’t know what, I think the beta indicates there’s going to be a new, like a subscription model for pro. Access, which, like I said, I use it, you know, twice a year depending on how many pets die. Um, so I, I don’t know if I would go for a pro subscription or not. [00:57:09] Uh, but I’m not sure what the pricing model’s gonna be yet. Um, uh, you can however, output to any dpi, uh, PNG [00:57:19] Christina: Which, which, which, which would be, which would be fine cuz I was just thinking, I was like, oh, you could combine this with like, some of the photo services and whatnot. Cause like, I don’t have the ability to print what I would wanna do anyway. You know what I mean? Like, to print directly from it. Like, if I can output it to like, you know, uh, p and g or jpeg or, or even pdf, then like, I’m fine. [00:57:38] Brett: Yeah, [00:57:38] Christina: That’s cool. [00:57:40] Jeffrey: Awesome. [00:57:40] Brett: Yep. That’s my pick. [00:57:43] Jeffrey: Well, good talking [00:57:45] Brett: Well, well, and then that’s when you pat your legs in the Midwest. You pat your legs, you say, Well, and then it’s time to go. Um, [00:57:54] Jeffrey: get some sleep. [00:57:55] Christina: Get some sleep. [00:57:57] Brett: Get some sleep. [00:57:58] Outro: The. [00:58:04] Stinger: Hey, there are good people. Before you go, we have a bunch of new places where you can interact with us. Please check out our Instagram feed our. 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