Overtired

After a brief hiatus, Brett and Christina are back, juggling life’s chaos from sciatica distress and political uproar to mouthwatering taco discoveries and tech marvels. They dissect mental health struggles, modern politics, and the power of local action. Brett spills on his heartwarming mushroom taco experience and flaunts his shiny new iPhone 15 and Sonos Ace headphones, while Christina geeks out over iTerm2’s latest update. With witty banter and unfiltered thoughts, they tackle the iTerm2 AI drama, share their love for the open-source Home Assistant, and more. Plug in your earbuds for a rollercoaster of emotions, tech talk, and foodie fantasies. Sponsor Incognito mode doesn’t stop your network provider from seeing where you visit, but ExpressVPN does. Visit expressvpn.com/overtired to get an extra 3 months free. Highlights https://overtiredpod.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Highlight-Reel-of-Politics-Money-and-Tacos.mp4 Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Jeff’s Absence 00:46 Discussing Back Pain and Sciatica 01:52 Political Anxiety and Mental Health 07:13 Conference Experiences and AI 19:10 Financial Talk and 401k Loans 27:06 ExpressVPN Sponsorship 31:32 Reviewing Sonos Ace Headphones 38:29 New iPhone 15 and Switching Carriers 40:34 Exploring iPhone Camera Features 41:32 The Evolution of iPhones 43:31 Bluetooth and Headphone Technology 45:42 Bone Conductor Headphones 53:53 A Memorable Trip to Minneapolis 01:00:09 The Future of iThoughts 01:10:26 Grapptitude: iTerm2 and Home Assistant Show Links 401K loans Sonos Ace headphones iPhone 15 Genital Shame iThoughts iTerm 3.5.x Warp AI Brett and Christina on the iTerm thanks screen Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Politics, Money, and Tacos [00:00:00] Introduction and Jeff’s Absence [00:00:00] [00:00:03] Brett: Welcome back to Overtired, couple weeks off, uh, it’s gonna be a little sporadic through the summer, but, uh, I’m Bret Terpstra, I am here with Christina Warren, Jeff is out this week, right before we recorded, he tweaked his back and now he is laying down and does not want to podcast laying down, uh, I guess, I get that. [00:00:26] Brett: Um, Christina, how are you? [00:00:29] Christina: I’m good. I’m good. I’m, I’m very, I, I feel for Jeff. Cause like, I know like back pain is like one of the worst things ever. So, um, and, and you know that, um, very well too. So, um, I, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m fine, but I’m, I am, uh, worried about our comrade. [00:00:46] Discussing Back Pain and Sciatica [00:00:46] Brett: Have you ever had sciatica? [00:00:49] Christina: yes, I have, but usually what I get, um, cause I have, I have scoliosis, so my back pain is usually different, but I have had sciatica before. Not often though. [00:00:58] Brett: Yeah, I have [00:01:00] minor scoliosis. I always hated those checks in gym class. But, um, yes, sciatica wrecked me for like two weeks the first time I had it. Um, and I thought it was just lower back pain, but it’s actually in my, in your like upper thigh. Um, and the solution was massage. I went to like a sports therapist who massaged And it took 15 minutes and she basically fixed my sciatica with like a deep tissue massage. [00:01:33] Brett: But that’s, that’s, that’s irrelevant because that’s probably not what Jeff did in his paddle boat, uh, over the weekend. Um, happy 4th of July. I guess, happy treason day. [00:01:47] Christina: God, I don’t even know, man. Like I, I’m so, okay. [00:01:52] Political Anxiety and Mental Health [00:01:52] Christina: So we’re not even getting into the mental health corner yet, and this isn’t even really a mental health corner thing, but it’s kind of a, [00:02:00] except it kind of is. So I feel kind of like an asshole for saying this, but at the same time, this is genuinely like a protective thing that I need to do, like for my mental health and for other things. [00:02:12] Christina: But I, I can’t be bothered to be upset or care or get too like mad about this election that Biden is absolutely going to lose. Like, I’m, I’m so, I’m, I’m, I’m so upset by the prospect of another four years of Trump, don’t get me wrong, but like, I just don’t have the energy to either, to, to be engaged, outraged, or like, even like, I don’t even want to think about it. [00:02:40] Christina: You know what I mean? Right. [00:02:41] Brett: Yeah, I do. I know exactly what you mean. Um, like I have already lost hope and project 2025 is scary as shit. Um, and I can’t spend all day thinking about it. Um, what I have done is focus more [00:03:00] on local, um, politics and grassroots efforts, um, that really have nothing to do with. The presidential election, because like you said, it’s almost a lock. [00:03:12] Brett: Um, I, I, I will not go so far as to make a prediction, but in my, in my opinion, it is, it’s a lock for Trump and, and we are fucked and the Supreme Court is just, you know, Decision after decision that are, it’s the most activist court in history and I just can’t spend all day thinking about this. I limit myself to like 20 minutes of like news slash outrage a day and then I just move on. [00:03:43] Brett: Focus on things I can actually control and change and not lose hope. Because there’s no hope out there right now. It’s fucking, it’s fucked up. [00:03:55] Christina: No, that, that, that’s totally, I’m, I’m, I’m in a very similar thing because, [00:04:00] yeah, it’s, it’s so upsetting to think about, um, on so many levels. And it’s not that I’m wanting to be like, head in the sand, I don’t care. It’s, it’s almost kind of the inverse. It’s like, no, I care so much, but I know there’s nothing that I can do. [00:04:12] Christina: And, That’s exactly what it is. That’s exactly what it is. And, and honestly, it’s one of those things where I, you know, um, it, I don’t know if this is, if this is how people become apathetic, maybe it is. I, it feels different. It feels like usually people don’t go through the sorts of trauma that we as a society collectively have gone through since 2016, right? [00:04:32] Christina: With, you know, first Trump thing and then pandemic and everything else. But, um, because we were just so polarized because things are so bad because it’s just. Thing on top of thing on top of thing, the Supreme Court. You know, you think about like, when you think about like the ultimate like bad decisions, I mean, obviously, you know, people can be understandably upset about Ruth Bader Ginsburg and saying she should have left before she did, which maybe is true. [00:04:57] Christina: But at the same time, even if she had like [00:05:00] left with plenty of time, I, I don’t, I’m not convinced that, that Obama ever would have been able to get. The, um, you know, confirmation at the time, right? Like, I think that we were just kind of fucked because they weren’t playing hardball enough. Like, everybody just assumed, okay, well, 2016’s a lock, so we don’t have to push and, and have these Supreme Court appointments when they needed to really have them, you know, in, in 2016 when there was plenty of time, right? [00:05:24] Christina: When you would still potentially have a fucked court, but it wouldn’t be to the level that it is now. And it’s just like, that more than. Even like the election and other things are the things that are going to have these, you know, like carry on ramifications that are so upsetting. Exactly. Right. Because that’s the real thing. [00:05:41] Christina: Like, like the, the, the Supreme court stuff that, you know, like the, you know, the stuff that they, you know, keep rolling back. Um, and not even just on women’s rights, but on, on so many other levels, like it’s so disturbing and it’s so upsetting on so many, you know, issues that it’s like, that’s the thing that, you know, Yeah, we’ll have 30 plus [00:06:00] that, that we can’t unravel, right? [00:06:01] Christina: That even if we had a good candidate to run right now, which we don’t, um, like what’s going to happen, right? Because the, the, unfortunately the age of the justices that you need to get out, um, are, it doesn’t align, right? [00:06:16] Brett: I mean, there’s the option to expand the Supreme Court, [00:06:20] Christina: yeah, but not [00:06:21] Brett: its own lasting repercussions, [00:06:23] Christina: totally, but, but, but that’s not going to happen when we, when there’s, unless you have a super majority. in both houses. You won’t ever get that pass. And even then, that’s not even a guarantee, because there’s, that’s a risk, right? Like, so, okay, we, we, we expand the court for three more seats. [00:06:38] Christina: Great. Um, what does that mean, like, when powers shift again? Like, there’s, there’s very valid reasons why, why that sort of thing has not happened before. And it’s, I don’t know. Yeah. Um, yeah, but yeah, [00:06:55] Brett: absolutely a mental health corner. We have begun the mental health [00:06:59] Christina: We’ve begun the mental [00:07:00] health corner. Yeah. So that’s, I’ll just kind of start and kind of finish. [00:07:02] Christina: Like I I’m, I’m doing okay. Um, I had some stressful stuff, um, uh, last week, um, uh, work related, um, that I was able to get through, but it was, it was, it was a lot. [00:07:13] Conference Experiences and AI [00:07:13] Christina: I went to a conference in San Francisco. It was a really good event, but the lead up to the event, there was just a lot of stuff that was involved with it that came in, um, pretty hot, even hotter than usual. [00:07:22] Christina: And as, as. Um, much as like, ADHD is a superpower for, um, like tight deadlines, um, there are some things that, like, there just aren’t enough man, man hours for, and that, you know, can just be too much, but, but things, things went well, but, um, I was, uh, it was like the, the event ended on, um, Thursday, like the day of the debate, and I was, I was in a bar, I was in the hotel bar, like, all day. [00:07:49] Christina: While the debate was happening and like they, they had it on one of the TVs, but not even all of them and just watching, just even silence, like with, you know, without even any captions or [00:08:00] anything on, I was just like, filled with dread and I was like, okay, you know what? Executive decision. I’m not fucking with this. [00:08:06] Christina: I’m not opening Twitter. I’m not engaging. I caught up the next day and it was exactly as bad as I, I anticipated it would be. But I’m very glad I didn’t watch it in real time. Go on. [00:08:16] Brett: I’m just going to interject this. Um, in a poll, only 65 percent of respondents thought that Trump won the debate. I don’t understand how anyone doesn’t think Trump won the debate. [00:08:30] Christina: No, this is a Nixon Kennedy situation, right? [00:08:34] Brett: fact checking aside, but [00:08:36] Christina: Right, but, but who cared? Well, that was, that was the interesting thing from the polls, right? Was that I think anybody with eyes knew that, that, uh, you know, or, or any, so any level of cognition, um, greater than Joe Biden’s, which would, you know, I’m sorry that’s, but I had to, it’s right there. [00:08:53] Christina: But like anybody with like, uh, you know, just like a monochrome of any sort of cognition or, or any ability, I think knew he [00:09:00] won, but. Like the, the big thing is like that it didn’t, at least from what the initial polls I saw was, it was like, it didn’t change anybody’s opinions. Right. Like undecideds were still undecided. [00:09:11] Christina: And, and it’s so partisan at this point. Right. But, but the problem is, is that it’s, you know, and this is why there’s so many calls from inside the house being like, we got to replace them. And it’s like, it’s too late guys. Like that, that, that ship sailed. And a lot of people were trying to call for that months ago when they were, you know, pilloried and, and, and really attacked, um, by the establishment, by the way. [00:09:32] Christina: Some of the same people who are now like, man, we got to fix this. It’s like, yeah, kind of fucked. Um, but like, the, the, the worry is, is that people just aren’t going to show up to vote because, [00:09:44] Brett: because who gives a fuck anymore? [00:09:46] Christina: right. And also, what is it like? [00:09:50] Brett: That said, that said, I will absolutely show up to vote, and I will vote blue all the way down the ticket. Um, like, that’s [00:10:00] just, I think, I honestly think a majority in Congress would be More effective than like it, like they could stop Trump from causing some damage, although project 2025, basically. Gives all power to the executive branch and Congress can’t really stop basically populating all of government with, um, sycophants. [00:10:31] Brett: Yeah. It’s going to be a mess. Sorry. I didn’t mean to derail your, [00:10:35] Christina: No, it’s okay. [00:10:36] Brett: conferences have you been to this year? [00:10:38] Christina: A bunch, but this was just this, yeah, but this was just like a, a last minute kind of ask. And, um, but it was good. It was, it was, it was an AI conference. Um, the AI Engineer World’s Fair, it was kind of a crappy name, but actually a really good event. And, um, uh, I think it was a good mix of people, um, who, you know, varying levels of, of how much [00:11:00] they have awareness about, you know, what’s happening with generative AI and, and, you know, All those things. [00:11:04] Christina: Um, you know, some people are really actively involved. Some people, you know, are more, you know, peripheral. Some people kind of in between. Um, I, despite not having any sort of like CS, you know, like a traditional CS background and certainly not in, into the level of stuff that, you know, like the really good AI people are, are there for, like, I can’t do the low level shit, but I’ve been getting more and more into, you know, various APIs and, and playing with various models and stuff over the last, you know, couple of years. [00:11:33] Christina: And, [00:11:33] Brett: Has there been any good, has there been any good hackathon around, Generative AI. I haven’t seen news about one. [00:11:44] Christina: That I don’t know. Um, but that’s a good question. I bet there probably have been some, but I don’t know. But yeah, cause that would be a [00:11:50] Brett: could be pretty cool to see. Um, we at Oracle are, my team is doing a huge push on this AI hub [00:12:00] where we’re interfacing with all of the other teams at Oracle that are working with AI and they’re Well, like Oracle has its own, like, kind of LLM and, and generative AI service that obviously is inferior because it’s Oracle. [00:12:16] Brett: Um, but the teams that are making use of it are doing some really cool shit. Like, um, there’s one that uses drones to examine, um, construction projects. And reports failures. Uh, um, what are they called? Uh, potential failures. Like it can analyze, like say a beam is rusting, like it can pick that up and it can process the data and give you a full report on like, how many years will this last? [00:12:52] Brett: What is the extent of the damage? And it all, it uses AI. To process all of the images from the drone and it’s [00:13:00] cool and there’s there’s yeah I’ve done I’ve done five or six myself now and every time I’m like man, this is actually a Reason I give people a lot of shit about generative AI for the average person Who’s sending me emails written by AI that drive me nuts. [00:13:23] Brett: Um, I don’t know, people, people don’t give the second prompt to like make this sound, make this sound less like AI. Um, but when it comes to like industry and practical uses, it, it blows my mind and I would love to see a hackathon around it. [00:13:45] Christina: Yeah. I think that like when I was doing some kind of cursory searches while you were saying that, I think like some individual companies have been kind of doing things, but I don’t know of any like big ones, like more broader, like kind of community things. But, [00:14:00] um, [00:14:01] Brett: I should push for an Oracle. Hackathon, that could be really good on my, my yearly review. [00:14:08] Christina: Yeah, no, that’s, that’s how you get a promotion or like a raise or whatever. That’s how you show value. Try to get that off the ground and then, you know, write that up in your, in your, [00:14:17] Brett: Oracle doesn’t give raises anymore. I’m, I’m convin I won’t know what compensation I get until September, but I guarantee you there will be no raise. Which means, basically, our Pay is decreasing because it’s not keeping up with costs of living and [00:14:37] Christina: Right. [00:14:38] Brett: so they’re basically paying us less every year by not giving us even, like, a 5 percent raise. [00:14:46] Brett: They give me, like, a bonus that amounts to, like, 1%. of my yearly salary and it, it means nothing. It literally means nothing. Um, no, what’s [00:15:00] going to save me is my first year at Oracle. My bonus was, uh, 100, 000 [00:15:10] Christina: RSUs. [00:15:10] Brett: RSUs. And they vest yearly. So this year I’ll get a quarter of that. And Oracle stock is great right now. Um, and you know, I’ll take it. [00:15:22] Christina: Mm hmm. [00:15:23] Brett: That’s a good bonus. That’s like a four year bonus they gave me. [00:15:27] Christina: No, I mean, that’s amazing. No, when I joined Microsoft, um, my sign on amount of stock was, was actually really insulting in retrospect, but I didn’t know that and I didn’t know what to ask for and, and all of that. But because when I joined the company, the stock was like 65 at the time or something. [00:15:45] Christina: By the time, like the initial, I think it was a four year period or whatever, by the time it all vested, like, because it was one of those things where like, you know, annually, That the stock at that point had like 4X’d, so it wound up being like the total value that [00:16:00] I got out of it, you know, wound up being still not enough, but, um, but, but, but a lot better, you know, and, and I had, [00:16:08] Brett: Not as insulting as it was initially. [00:16:10] Christina: Exactly. And I’ve had a couple of special stock awards, um, that, you know, things they try to give you for retention and, and stuff like that in, in addition to like whatever, you know, I get as part of like my yearly compensation. Um, and one year, um, when they issued it, the, the stock was like 256 or something like that. [00:16:29] Christina: Which at the time was kind of like a high. And so I was like, okay, well, I don’t know if this is going to be like a thing that pays off or not. And at some point, like there were certain best periods where like, I, I would like be underwater, you know, with, with that amount. [00:16:39] Christina: But now, because the stock is like 460 or something like that, like even that, like the, the hard thing is going to be, and this is why I think like a lot of people like calling like for like, they really like employees especially, but like, I think a lot of people like they want the stock to split because it’s like getting close. [00:16:55] Christina: Yeah. Like as we’re recording this, [00:16:56] Brett: 460 a share? [00:16:58] Christina: 468. [00:17:00] Yeah. 468. Yeah. And when I got in, [00:17:03] Brett: need a new job. [00:17:04] Christina: yeah, when I, well, I wish that we could split because if they split the stock, it would still [00:17:09] Brett: that mean? What does that mean? [00:17:11] Christina: okay, so a stock split basically means that they will, um, uh, divide the number of available shares, um, in, in half. And so if you owned, so basically, um, to, to have a bigger offering so that you could have bring more people into it. [00:17:26] Christina: But what it also essentially does is that if you bought in, so like, let’s say like you bought in at 65, um, And now it is 468. If the stocks split and, and it became 234 a share, um, your number of, of outstanding shares would be doubled, but your cost average, if you, if you bought in like at 65 or whatever, would still potentially have more room for a run up. [00:17:54] Christina: See what I’m saying? [00:17:55] Brett: I, I don’t because I’m really bad at this kind of thing. I’m gonna [00:18:00] take your word for it. [00:18:01] Christina: Okay, so the idea would just be your total number of shares would double, so your value would be the same. But at that point, you have [00:18:08] Brett: Gotcha. Okay. [00:18:09] Christina: another run up, right? So whereas, you know, so, so, okay, so usually what happens, like, like Nvidia split a few weeks ago and, um, and, and so Nvidia had been, uh, and they’re one of the most valuable companies in the world right now, but like their stock had gone super, super high and it split a few weeks ago. [00:18:26] Christina: So what that does is that A allows. people who would otherwise not be able to buy in because it was too high to get in. But B, it means that there’s another opportunity, like if there’s another run up, right? So if it’s 127 right now, but let’s say it has like another rally and it goes to like 175 by the end of the year, then that means that people who, you know, owned it earlier could potentially like double their, their returns or not double, but like have, have, have higher returns. [00:18:56] Christina: Because they’re, they’re, the number of shares would be higher. [00:18:59] Brett: That, [00:19:00] okay. You’re making sense to me. I get this. I get this. I get this one concept. Um, this is now a money corner. [00:19:10] Financial Talk and 401k Loans [00:19:10] Brett: Um, so I just this week, um, took out a loan against my 401k. And I did a bunch of research before I did this, but I was able to take out enough money to pay off all my outstanding loans. Um, and at, uh, about 10%, Uh, interest rate, but on a 401k loan, you pay the interest to yourself because it’s your money. [00:19:41] Brett: Um, and so that sounds great to me. You’re not earning interest on all of the money you’ve withdrawn. But when I did, when I did my own number crunching to see like what I was going to lose in interest versus what I was [00:20:00] going to. Gain in the, in the total based on the extra interest I was paying in. Um, it, it just, it made good sense to me. [00:20:10] Brett: So I paid off all my other loans and came out with enough money for home improvement projects. Um, and now, and now my only loan is paid back to myself. So do you know, what do you know about 401k loans? I’m just kind of putting it out there. [00:20:28] Christina: I don’t know a lot about them except that I know that there are sometimes like penalties that can be involved. Um, like, like you can take them off for certain purposes and you can get them back for certain things. Like, so I know that there are ways that you can do it that could be more beneficial. I think usually, because I think usually the problem is like, like, because the interest rate, like the 10 percent or whatever, like that’s not that much, like that’s better than a credit card. [00:20:51] Christina: That’s, that’s probably going to be about the same. [00:20:53] Brett: was better than, it was, it was, uh, point, point three better [00:21:00] than my, my lowest interest rate. So it is my lowest interest rate loan. And you’re right. If you wanted to take out I think it’s 50 percent of your, of the value of your 401k. Then there are penalties unless it meets certain criteria. Um, it has, it’s like, I think it’s called a hardship loan and you have to provide paperwork that there is like you lost your job, whatever. [00:21:26] Brett: Um, but for the amount I took out, there are no tax penalties. There are no. Additional deductions made. Uh, so I took out basically the smallest amount you can take out without penalties. Which honestly, like I didn’t start building a, I had, when I left AOL, I had like, I think 30k in my retirement fund and I rolled it over and then over the [00:22:00] course of seven years as an in, as an unsuccessful indie developer, um, I basically withdrew most of it with penalties and paid all the tax penalties on it and by the end I had like in it, which I rolled over into, um, Oracle. [00:22:20] Brett: And since then I have been putting in like 15 percent of my paycheck and 6 percent of that is matched and add in my RSU value. And I actually. It’s not a great retirement fund. Like, honestly, and I’ve said this before, but I could afford a pretty nice car to live in at this point. Um, except I think San Francisco outlawed living in cars. [00:22:49] Brett: Um, but where I live, you could still live in a car and that’s my retirement plan. Me, me and Al living in, I don’t know, like, uh, it would probably [00:23:00] be a Nissan, like a higher end Nissan, nothing fancy, nothing fancy. Anyway, anyway, [00:23:08] Christina: I mean, look, you at least have a house. Like that’s the, that’s the real thing. Like you have like, at least like, you [00:23:14] Brett: L has a [00:23:15] Christina: well, L has a house, but you know, but like one of you has a house, [00:23:18] Brett: right? Right. Yeah. Even though, even though I basically pay the mortgage on it, my name is not on it at this point. Maybe I should change that. Maybe I would be more comfortable. Like right now I invest all the money for home improvement projects comes from me. But, if we broke up, there’s no legal reason she would have to, [00:23:44] Christina: Right. I [00:23:45] Brett: like, we have, we have agreements, about, like, if, if worse comes to worse, uh, uh, upon the sale of this house, you will be compensated for the investments you made in it. [00:23:56] Brett: But it’s not illegally binding. [00:24:00] Like, I trust El. I love El to death. Um, but I have no, like, legally binding, um, stake in, in this property. [00:24:09] Christina: mean, maybe that, maybe that should change, right? And it’s not because, like you said, like you don’t, there’s lack of trust or lack of love with them or anything, right? But it might make you feel more comfortable about how you go about things and, and also feel like, you know, like makes the investment feel maybe even like more real. [00:24:27] Christina: You know what I mean? [00:24:28] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Like, I get a little queasy dropping ten grand on new windows. Um, Like watching my, like, I have, I have my own savings and I like to keep it at a certain point. Like I feel like it gives me a sense of like wellbeing and comfort to have at X number of dollars in my savings account. [00:24:51] Brett: And in this case, in my Apple savings account, because holy shit, that is the best return rate out there right now. Um, but, [00:25:00] uh, anytime that gets, uh, like you take 10 grand out of it, And feel less mentally okay. Okay. It’s a mental health corner again. Money is mental health. Like, this is all mental health. Um, uh, comfort and, uh, stability and all of these things are heavily related to money, which is heavily related to privilege, obviously. [00:25:27] Brett: But, um, yeah, money is mental health. [00:25:32] Christina: I, yes, [00:25:33] Brett: And, and I have been broke. I have been destitute. I’ve been homeless. Like, I understand the psychological ramifications of not knowing if you can afford groceries. Um, and that is a place I never want to be again. Um, I want to hedge my bets all the time. I want a job at GitHub, but, um, I, [00:26:00] I don’t trust that I, I don’t trust that my job at Oracle will last forever. [00:26:06] Brett: But anyway, yep, this is still mental health. I feel like, I feel like I’ve done my mental health corner. [00:26:12] Christina: this is a weird one, but I feel like we both were able to get like our mental health corner like out of the way. It was kind of like a good like joint one. Like that was, that was, that was kind of weird. Like we’ve been doing this podcast for so long that we were able to do. Kind of a, a back and forth, like kind of, kind of shared like mental health corner, all about like politics and money. [00:26:31] Christina: The, the two things that everybody wants to think about, but that genuinely are mental health, right? They genuinely are. These are things that, at least for me, those are definitely two things that [00:26:39] Brett: The highest, the highest source of conflict in couples, politics and money. [00:26:45] Christina: totally. Totally. [00:26:47] Brett: Um, are we a couple? We’re kind of a couple. We’re a podcast. We’re like podcast couple. [00:26:53] Christina: totally. You’re, you’re, you’re definitely like my, my, my pod spouse for sure. [00:26:56] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So do you want [00:27:00] to do a quick sponsor break and then move on? [00:27:03] Christina: Yeah. Let’s do that. All right. [00:27:06] ExpressVPN Sponsorship [00:27:06] Christina: This episode is brought to you by ExpressVPN. All right, going online without ExpressVPN is like leaving your laptop unattended at the coffee shop while you run to the bathroom. Most of the time, in fact, almost all the time, you’re probably going to be fine. But what if one day you come out of the bathroom and your laptop is gone? [00:27:24] Christina: Side note, this happened to me once, although not at a coffee shop. It was, I left my laptop. At my office and I came back in the next day and it was gone and it was a pretty terrible feeling. So even though 99 percent of the time you’re going to be fine, ExpressVPN is a great thing to add to your arsenal, uh, when you’re going online because everybody does need a VPN of some sort. [00:27:47] Christina: When I’m at a hotel, for instance, having a VPN is a really good thing to have in your arsenal, whether you’re using it because you want to protect yourself. Um, if you’re, on weird wifi networks, say you’re in an airport or you’re at a hotel, or maybe you’re on some sort [00:28:00] of like, you know, like conference wifi, that’s a little bit sketch and you’re like, Hey, um, I know that most of the websites that I visit are encrypted, and that’s great. [00:28:07] Christina: So I’m not really worried about sending my passwords across, you know, in plain text. But I don’t know if I really like the fact that somebody is going to be logging everything that I’m doing while I’m on this network. A VPN, especially if you’re using a service like ExpressVPN where they don’t log, is really good because You’re not going to, A, have your information sold by data brokers, but B, um, you don’t need to worry about kind of people spying on what sort of activities or what sort of traffic is taking place on your network, because they’re not able to see it. [00:28:37] Christina: So, I think that ExpressVPN is a great VPN. I’ve used it for a really long time. One, um, it is very secure, so it would take a A hacker with a supercomputer over a billion years to get past ExpressVPN’s encryption. So it is encrypted in addition to, various other, uh, provisions they have placed. [00:28:55] Christina: Um, the other thing is that it’s really, really easy to use. You can get it, [00:29:00] um, up and running with just a click of a button to get protected. But the thing that I really appreciate about it is that it works. on all sorts of devices. So phones, laptops, tablets, you can even get it running on like a fire TV sticks and things like that. [00:29:14] Christina: So this is one of those services where a lot of times, some VPN services work better than others on multiple types of devices. ExpressVPN works everywhere. Really big fan of that. Um, I actually was at a hotel a few weeks ago that was being weird. Um, about the fact that I was running a BitTorrent daemon in the background and it didn’t want me to connect on their network. [00:29:35] Christina: So basically I had to stop the daemon, connect to the network, connect to ExpressVPN, and then I was able to load, you know, my protocol again and the the hotel Wi Fi couldn’t tell me what to do with it. With my information because it couldn’t see it, which is pretty great. So big fan of using VPNs for lots of reasons, including getting around onerous hotel wifi restrictions. [00:29:58] Christina: Secure your online data [00:30:00] today by visiting expressvpn. com slash Overtired. That’s E X P R E S S VPN. com slash Overtired. And you can get an extra three months free. That is expressvpn. com slash Overtired. [00:30:16] A Little More About VPNs [00:30:16] Brett: Nice job, Christina. So, side note, like, they made this, the notes for the read were all about online security, which Like, as you cleverly worked into the read, is not the primary use of VPNs anymore. Like, so much of the web is encrypted [00:30:41] Christina: All of it is. [00:30:43] Brett: and VPN, if you’re worried about your passwords, don’t. Like, just, it’s, most, I think all browsers will warn you now before entering a password on a non SSL encrypted site.[00:31:00] [00:31:00] Brett: Like, every, every browser has something in place, whether it’s a little lock bar or an actual pop up that says, Hey, [00:31:07] Christina: Yeah. No. [00:31:07] Brett: want to think twice about this. [00:31:09] Christina: Exactly. They’re like, are you really, really sure? Are you positive? And people who, cause there’s still a contingent of people who are like, very much, I will never encrypt my, my website. And this is just a scam from the certificate authorities. And it’s like, no, there, there’s nothing wrong with SSL, but that isn’t the only reason why you use a VPN because [00:31:25] Brett: Right, exactly. Exactly. And, and I, I like what, I like where you took that read. I appreciate that. [00:31:32] Reviewing Sonos Ace Headphones [00:31:32] Brett: Let’s talk about the Sonos Ace headphones. [00:31:36] Christina: Yeah. Because we both got them. [00:31:38] Brett: Our, our friend of the show, Brian Guffey got us a great deal on, on some Sonos Ace headphones, and I jumped on it because I am always looking for comfortable over the ear headphones. My ear canals just do not work for. I have bought multiple [00:32:00] iterations of, uh, AirPods that sound okay, but don’t fit my ears. [00:32:07] Brett: Or like, the one in my right ear always falls out no matter what cup size I choose for it. Um, so over the years, like, the only way to go for me. And Like, these headphones we’re using for these Sonys we use for the podcast, they’re comfy. I can wear them for, uh, two hours about before my ears start hurting. [00:32:29] Brett: I wanted a really good pair for, uh, watching TV, watching movies, and music listening. And so I jumped on this deal, and honestly, at the price you and I paid, they are fantastic headphones. [00:32:45] Christina: there, there are no brainers. They’re, they’re fantastic. Where it gets hard is that the MSRP is 450, which granted, it, it’s not that difficult for people to, you know, find certain sales or get discount codes if you, a lot of corporations [00:33:00] even will have some sort of, you know, like, like Sonos, you know, discount, um, uh, like, like, I know that, that. [00:33:06] Christina: Microsoft sends it by extension, GitHub does. But 450 is a lot of money for a pair of headphones. Um, and so at that price point you’re going up against, uh, Bose, Sony, and Apple, uh, the the Apple, um, the AirPods Max are 550. Um, I, you know, I don’t recommend anybody buy those right now because, unless the, the sale is really good because the, um, the rumors are that a new version with, with the USB C will be coming out. [00:33:34] Christina: Apparently they’re not going to be making many other changes, but, but that will be coming out. But the thing is, is that if you already have AirPods Max, I don’t, even if you were very deeply embedded in the Sonos ecosystem, I don’t think that you need to buy these headphones. If you are somebody who is looking for a pair, like you, like, like you are Brett, of like good over ear, um, you know, noise canceling headphones. [00:33:58] Christina: They are very, very comfortable. [00:34:00] They [00:34:00] Brett: The noise canceling, the noise canceling is insanely good. [00:34:04] Christina: It’s very good. It’s very, very good. Um, I used them last week on a plane and so I was able to give them like a real test. Like I actually left my AirPods at home and I just took the Sonos with me, which I thought was like a really good travel test to kind of compare, like, okay, how do these compare against these things that I’ve, I’ve worn? [00:34:20] Christina: Um, and, um, and really, really well, like the, I would say that the noise canceling is, is right up there, um, against, you know, uh, you know, Sony and Bose, who are kind of like the leader in that and then the transparency mode, um, where you can kind of hear background things coming in to, it’s pretty good, it’s not as good as on the AirPods Max, but it’s, it’s, or, or even the AirPods Pro 2, but it’s really, really solid, um, but the big thing for me is like, I, I don’t know what your experience has been like. [00:34:51] Christina: Incredibly comfortable. Like [00:34:53] Brett: Incredibly comfortable. And the, like, I don’t, I don’t have like the Sony or the AirPods [00:35:00] max to compare to, but the audio quality is the best I have in, and I own eight pairs of over the ear headphones of in various price ranges. Um, and the Sonos Ace. Trumps them all. Uh, they, it, it’s a, it’s a really good pair of headphones. [00:35:24] Brett: Like you said, like it’s a competitive market and I’m sure it depends. Like, like I said at the beginning, at the price you and [00:35:34] Christina: at the price that we got them at, it’s, it’s a no brainer. It’s amazing. It’s, it’s harder at MSRP. And the only reason I say that is that I feel like if you already have things in the Sonos ecosystem, because right now how I think that a lot of people envisioned how these would work would be that you would be able to wirelessly tune into any of your, your Sonos. [00:35:56] Christina: Speaker zones that are happening throughout your house. And if [00:36:00] that were the case at this price point at 450, that would be, I think, for a lot of people, like a kind of a no brainer, right? Because like, okay, I could, I could tune into, you know, this room where this thing is happening, or maybe this room where I have my turntable connected or something else. [00:36:13] Christina: Um, but that’s not the case. How it works right now is that they only work with. The Sonos ARC soundbar, although it apparently is going to be coming to some of the less expensive soundbars later this year. Um, and so anything that’s connected to that soundbar, so anything that’s connected to your TV, your video game consoles, you know, if you have, if you had a turntable connected to that or whatever, like that would all work, um, over, over Bluetooth and not over wireless, but that’s the only one that has the, the audio switching feature with right now. [00:36:42] Christina: Um, and so for, for the Sonos aspect of it, like. It’s hard for me to kind of say it. I guess it depends on how deeply embedded into the ecosystem you are. But I think that the real thing is that it’s like, if you’re, if you’re in that market for like a premium pair of noise [00:37:00] canceling headphones for travel and you take the Sonos part out of it, I think they’re really good. [00:37:05] Christina: But as you said, it is a competitive space. Um, I, I think Apple, if you’re in the Apple ecosystem, there are some things about AirPods that are just. better just because of the things they do with the H1 chip. I don’t think that the headphones are better overall. In fact, I’m annoyed by many aspects of things with AirPods Max, but the things that it does really well, like, you know, seamlessly switching between devices and, and some of the, the other stuff. [00:37:29] Christina: is just, no one matches that. So if you have a lot of things in the Apple ecosystem, and you already have AirPods Max, I don’t think you need to look at these. But for most people who aren’t in that class, I definitely think they’re worth looking into, especially if you can get them on sale. But I will say the hard thing is the Sony’s, I haven’t used the Lea’s Bose, although they’re apparently incredible, but like the Sony’s XM5s are very frequently on sale. [00:37:53] Christina: And so it’s hard to Kind of pit the two against one another, just MSRP. [00:38:00] Having said that, yeah, I mean, for a first round of headphones, I think they’ve done a really, really good job. And certainly, if you can get like a good deal on them, they’re really, really good. [00:38:09] Brett: So I can tie this into a secondary topic, but it fascinates me that headphones are not. A quote unquote mature tech where, uh, where like new iterations are actually significantly better. [00:38:29] New iPhone 15 and Switching Carriers [00:38:29] Brett: Um, if you look at iPhones, like, okay, so I just yesterday, Got an iPhone 15 Max Pro, and that was an upgrade from the iPhone 12 that I used for years, and I just never saw a reason to upgrade. [00:38:49] Brett: Uh, the cameras got better over time, uh, some features got better over time, but not enough to be like, I’m gonna trash this iPhone 12 that I already [00:39:00] have paid off and it’s been a trusty companion. Um, finally. Uh, I don’t even, like the buttons got less responsive, uh, battery life wore down, uh, so I finally upgraded to an iPhone 15 and switched my cell service from Verizon to Visible and now I pay a total. [00:39:27] Brett: Of 250 a year for using Verizon Towers. And yeah, it’s insanely cheap. And, and I pay 40 a month as part of a loan for this new iPhone. But I was paying 120 a month to Verizon after paying off my phone. And like that, the cost differences. I, I’m getting a whole year for what I would pay Verizon in two months. [00:39:56] Brett: Um, so anyway, like, I hope [00:40:00] someday again, Mint will sponsor this show. Uh, but basically any of those little, I don’t know what they’re called, baby bells. Um, That, that use, you know, T Mobile or Verizon towers and give you the same coverage, uh, for a fraction of the price. But anyway, the point of this is the iPhone 15, uh, is impressive. [00:40:28] Brett: I love that I can shoot any photo and it takes depth information. [00:40:34] Exploring iPhone Camera Features [00:40:34] Brett: In every, I mean, you can turn this off, but in every photo and you can turn any regular photo into a portrait and like, and fuzz the background, uh, or change the focus of any portrait mode. Like that’s cool. That’s, that’s not worth a thousand dollars, but it’s cool. [00:40:58] Brett: I, I dig, I dig that. I [00:41:00] dig. There are a few. The camera is very cool. [00:41:04] Christina: Yeah. The camera’s really good. And, and the, the Apple, the Apple intelligence stuff, um, is [00:41:10] Brett: Oh, I haven’t used that at [00:41:11] Christina: well, they don’t, it’s not available for anybody yet, [00:41:13] Brett: Is it in the Oh, it’s not in the beta? [00:41:15] Christina: No. But when it does come out, they’ve said that like basically the lowest level of phones that will be able to support it will be like the 15 and, and uh, like the 15 pro. [00:41:26] Christina: So, um, so you’ll actually be able to, to use that stuff. [00:41:32] The Evolution of iPhones [00:41:32] Brett: People on Macedon were razzing me about not waiting for the announcement. Um, but honestly, like I am always two or three, even four years behind, like I used to always have to have the new phone. I would be at this store the day it came out and I always had to have the latest thing. And I got on like the Verizon edge plan. [00:41:56] Brett: So I could always trade in my phone at any time. [00:42:00] And I just. I don’t, I think iPhones became mature tech and [00:42:06] Christina: agree with that. [00:42:07] Brett: the benefits, the improvements were incremental enough. I mean, Apple, all companies right now in the mobile phone industry are struggling to give people a reason to discard their old phone. [00:42:24] Brett: They’re no longer as discardable as they used to be. Uh, we’ve hit like, uh, A point where an iPhone 12 is still good in 2024. It’s a great phone. [00:42:38] Christina: It is a great phone. I, I still have an iPhone 12 that I use, um, uh, sometimes as like a continuity camera thing, like that, that I, that I just use, you know, as, as a webcam instead of using something else. Um, and, and it’s great for that, but yeah, you’re right. Like we’ve kind of reached that point where like phones are for a lot of people, even enthusiasts good enough. [00:42:56] Christina: Like I still buy one every year. I think the only year I didn’t [00:43:00] get a new phone in. 15 years or so it was, was the iPhone, um, 13. And that was because it was going to take them a long time to get it to me in the color I wanted. And by the time that happened, I was like, I don’t actually want the phone because there aren’t any real changes and, and I, I don’t need it. [00:43:16] Christina: Um, uh, and, and honestly, I could probably wait longer than that with other things, but I’m part of like, like you, I was either part of like the Verizon, like, like edge upgrade program, or I do like the Apple, you know, early upgrade thing and whatnot, but yeah, you’re not wrong. It’s pretty mature tech. [00:43:31] Bluetooth and Headphone Technology [00:43:31] Christina: And the thing is, headphones, a lot of it is mature, but what’s gotten better, especially if you haven’t been in the game for a long time, is that the noise cancelling has significantly improved, even in the last five or six years. [00:43:44] Christina: Like, it’s really, really good now. Um, there are still, you know, issues around Bluetooth, but like, they’re, they’re still able to do things, you know, with [00:43:54] Brett: But is that, is that a Bluetooth problem or is it a headphone hardware problem? [00:44:00] Like [00:44:00] Christina: both, but, but it is a Bluetooth [00:44:01] Brett: just seems a little buggy. [00:44:03] Christina: Yeah, it is. It is. I mean, it’s both, right? Like it’s, it’s a Bluetooth problem insofar as, um, the, the Bluetooth standard remains buggy and a problem and, and, you know, an issue when you’re trying to do certain things. And so the solution is either to fortify the standard and make Bluetooth better for everybody, uh, which, you know, is complicated and takes a long time or to do things like what Apple did, which is basically just creating their own custom chips to offload some of the things that the Bluetooth, you know, can’t do. [00:44:32] Christina: Um, Or, you know, like, and I think Sonos, um, people were expecting them to use like, why just have like, like Wi Fi, like wireless headphones? Like why, why can’t I just connect them, you know, to my existing speaker sets? The issue with that is actually a power one. Um, the, the processor power, uh, Um, I think it was the CEO of Sonos, but I’m not sure it was. [00:44:54] Christina: Someone high up said to the Verge, you know the basically the, the power that, um, even [00:45:00] in the latest headphones that are put out, like the, you know, the chips that are in them are not as powerful as what they’ve got on their speakers. And, um, Not to mention, you know, the, the fact that you still have to struggle with, okay, well, like, how do we balance, you know, like good battery life and battery sizes with making sure that these things are going to be lightweight on your head and like, won’t, you know, be too heavy and, and make that whole part of it bad. [00:45:19] Christina: It’s like, there are a lot of things you have to balance. Um, but, um, And you, there, there are like ebbs and flows where there are some years where it’s like, yeah, there really haven’t been any, there have not been any improvements. And then you have eras where you’re like, Oh, actually things have improved a whole lot. [00:45:36] Christina: So, um, yeah, but I’m, but I’m, but, but I totally understand what you’re saying. Sorry, go on. [00:45:42] Bone Conductor Headphones [00:45:42] Brett: no, the other solution I have for, um, my ear canals not working for earbuds is bone conductor headphones. [00:45:50] Christina: Yeah. How, yeah. How do you like this? [00:45:51] Brett: Oh my God. They’re. Amazing. Like it doesn’t have the richness of sound that a good, like a high [00:46:00] quality over the ear headphone has, but for like watching TV, watching movies, um, so Elle, my big, like, even my 32 inch TV is overwhelming, um, for, uh, over stimulating for them. [00:46:18] Brett: And I generally, we watch, if we’re watching together, we watch on an iPad. Um, it’s a small enough screen that it doesn’t, of course, they’re usually knitting. Anyway, and they just look up when, when there’s no vocals, but there’s audio that clearly indicates something’s happening visually. That’s when they look up to keep track. [00:46:42] Brett: Um, it always impresses me how they can do both at once, but when, when I’m watching alone, I usually need to keep it quiet. Um, and so I have a pair of Bluetooth bone conductor headphones that connect to my TV [00:47:00] and. I can’t believe, like, I’ll ask Elle, can you hear what’s happening right now? Because they feel like they’re like open back headphones. [00:47:12] Brett: And it’s, it fascinates me that I can have volume up and Elle can’t hear a thing. Like, it’s just conducting through my jaw and sounding really good. Um, I take them on walks. I have them connected to multiple devices, but the reason I bring it up is because Interestingly, they connect to every device they’ve ever connected to. [00:47:35] Brett: When I turn them on, I hear connected, connected, connected, and like it’s connecting to all these devices and whatever device is playing, they switch to. Um, it gets, it’s buggy as hell, because I’ll be watching TV and it’ll say, Disconnected. But the TV, like the sound doesn’t stop, so it disconnected from some [00:48:00] other device, and it’s, it’s disconcerting, like it works, but honestly, Bluetooth is just weird to me. [00:48:09] Brett: Uh, it seems, it honestly seems like we could have, like we could do better. I [00:48:15] Christina: Yeah, we could, I think the problem is, is it’s like, how do you make a standard? Right. Cause that’s, cause the thing is like, Bluetooth sucks, but. At the same time, like, it’s backward compatible with a lot of things, like, even if things, like, you know, like, multipoint, you know, only work for certain versions and, like, they’ve got to support, you know, a whole range of, of devices, you know, from, like, you know, old video game consoles to cars that people own. [00:48:37] Christina: You know, we’ll not be able to in many cases ever update anything with Bluetooth in, you know, to, you know, older phones, to all kinds of other devices. Like it’s, it’s a hard thing to make a standard like Bluetooth, um, that’s been around for as many years as it has and improve it. Um, but I agree with you. [00:48:54] Christina: We could have something better. [00:48:55] Brett: mean, USB, USB finally is good. [00:49:00] Like, by, USB C is a great protocol. It’s a great physical adapter. [00:49:05] Christina: Yeah. But it’s also really confusing. It’s, it’s finally good, but it’s also like, what, what, what version of US, what USB C cable do you need? Right? Like there’s like, that’s still kind of a cluster. [00:49:16] Brett: Yeah. I, the iPhone 15 has a USB C charger, um, which means that all of my little charging stations around the house, which are all lightning, um, all, all USB A to lightning setups. Now I need, um, Either USB A to USB C cables, or I need to replace the hubs with USB C hubs. So that’s going to take a little getting used to, but honestly, I mean, it’s the same when we went from 32 pin connectors, like everyone complained cause they had to replace all their, all their, um, adapters and everything. [00:49:56] Christina: this is much easier because we already have a bunch of USB C things, right? Like, at this [00:50:00] point, like, I, I even, like, when I got my iPhone 15, um, Pro Max or whatever, um, in September, I also bought, even though I didn’t need them, because I literally just bought them. Bought a second pair because I lost one pair, um, left them in a hotel and they were taken, which fine, my bad on that. [00:50:18] Christina: But I’d lost a pair of Airpods, um, Pro 2s, which are really, really good. And I had to buy a replacement pair because I needed them. And I was like, I can’t go This long without them. I didn’t know that they were going to come out with the USB C version. Um, like a month and a half later. And so I was able to rationalize buying them for myself by, uh, giving them to, uh, my colleague and friend who I was on a trip with. [00:50:43] Christina: And I was like, Erin doesn’t have AirPods and she needs AirPods. And, and, and I also, they were like 50 off, um, uh, through Amazon. Um, like the first, Week that they were like out, but one of the [00:50:56] Brett: very generous of you. [00:50:57] Christina: yes, but my, my, my [00:51:00] real selfish aspect of that was a, I do genuinely like to just like gift people things, you know, and, and so giving Aaron the, the, um, AirPods was great, but the bigger thing I was like, this will make the transition that much easier for me because now the only lightning thing that I use with any regularity. [00:51:18] Christina: Other than my, you know, um, Apple mouse and, and uh, Magic, you know, keyboard and Magic trackpad, or whatever, which, you know, I, I, I don’t, um, travel with those, so that’s not a big deal, will be my AirPods Max. That will be the only lightning thing that I really have. Everything else will be USB C. So I was, you know, uh, You know, incrementally I’d already kind of upgraded and switched a lot of things over. [00:51:39] Christina: So you’ll probably find that too. Um, I know for my parents, my mom has the iPhone 15 Pro Max, but my dad has an iPhone 14 plus. And so they are split. And so each of their cars I have, you know, kind of set things up. A, I’ve tried to get them more into using wireless charging since they both can. And [00:52:00] B, so I bought a number of, uh, the Belkin MagSafe 2, Um, uh, uh, pads, because they’re cheaper than, um, the, um, uh, Apple ones, but they are the exact same. [00:52:11] Christina: They’re the same, you know, charging speed or whatever. Um, and then, um, making sure that each of their cars, like, has, like, a lightning and a USB C. But then, you know, I try to switch my mom over to kind of, like, teachers, like, okay, this is, you know, it’s going to be a little bit annoying, but Two of your, you know, two pairs of your AirPods use one, you know, way to charge. [00:52:30] Christina: One, one of them uses another, but it’s the same as your phone. It’s going to be a few years until everybody’s switched over, but it’ll be nice. Like in, in a couple of years, everything will switch over. [00:52:41] Brett: there are cables that have, they’re USB C cables, but attached to the end is a little dongle, you can slip over it to make it lightning. Um, which, so basically you have one cable that can do both, and that’s, cause L’s on an iPhone [00:53:00] 13, uh, which is still lightning. So yeah, we have this, I have this little, um, charging station that like, I snaked a cable under our couch and brought it out to this just little, um, hub so that we don’t have cables running across, across the floor and we can charge all our devices from the couch. [00:53:19] Brett: Um, and having, now we have to have both USB C and, Lightning cables in what is a very small hub. Uh, but it is doable, but I like this idea of a cable that one cable that can do both cause we rarely need to charge at the same time. Okay. So we’re at an hour approximately. How much do you have a, an extra 20 minutes? [00:53:45] Christina: I do. [00:53:46] Brett: Okay, because I have two more topics I want to hit before we get to Graptitude. [00:53:51] Christina: got it. [00:53:53] A Memorable Trip to Minneapolis [00:53:53] Brett: first of all, and I should have mentioned this earlier, I saw Jeff this last weekend and together we [00:54:00] went to Palmers, uh, in Minneapolis and saw Erin Dawson, friend of the show, previous guest, co worker of mine, we saw her Black Metal Band play and I I had heard some of her solo recordings before, and I had told her, this is good, it’s just, it’s not my, it’s not my thing. [00:54:23] Brett: But when I saw, her band is called Genital Shame, and when I saw them play, I was blown away. It was so good, and she is a Fucking goddess of like metal guitar and it was, I was ecstatic. I, I loved it so much. It was so good. Um, and I, I bought a t shirt. I have a genital shame, shame t shirt. I will be supporting and her, her, her band, cause she’s, she is genital shame and she plays with A backing band. [00:54:57] Brett: Um, and the backing band [00:55:00] is actually another band in their own right, I think in Milwaukee. Um, but I got to meet all of them and they were super cool, uh, the drummer especially was obviously ADHD as well. 90 percent of drummers seem to be. Um, and like we, we clicked and we had so much fun and it was such a great night. [00:55:24] Brett: It was such a great trip. And on that trip, I went to this place called Awamni. And if you’re in Minneapolis for any reason, get a reservation and go to Awamni. It’s not expensive. Um, it’s, uh, uh, it’s native. Uh, Cuisine. So, it’s run by Native peoples, like First Nation peoples, and, um, and they only serve, they only use ingredients that are native to the area. [00:55:55] Brett: So, there’s no beef, there’s no wheat. Uh, it’s basically a [00:56:00] gluten free menu. Um, the meat they serve is like bison and duck. Uh, and, uh, Elk maybe? Um, I don’t eat meat, so I just had a mushroom taco on a corn tortilla that blew my fucking mind. Like, I cr I was crying at the table. I had a corn, uh, taco, and a mushroom taco, and it, like I, and a, a stout beer, and I got out of there for like a total of 40, and I’m sitting at the table, I went by myself, I couldn’t find anyone to have dinner with, so I went by myself, I’m alone at a table, tearing up, because I am so blown away, it was so, like, I was thinking lately, um, about happiness, about am I happy, and I feel like everyone does this, but Pretty regularly, but I was like, when am I happiest? [00:56:59] Brett: And [00:57:00] it’s always around food. I think, I think I might be a foodie because like this, this meal was just pure joy for me. And I swear, I, I have no hesitation saying anyone living or visiting Minneapolis really needs to go to a Omni. It’s so good. [00:57:22] Christina: Okay. Well, I, I, I put that on the list if I ever, um, go to Minneapolis. Um, but that’s really, really great to know. And also, um, uh, I’m glad that you were able to see Erin’s band and, uh, or Erin, you know, and her backing band, um, and, and see her, her rock so hard. Um, I sent, Sent, we were talking about, about drums I sent you, um, in our group chat, um, uh, videos. [00:57:46] Christina: But I, I hope both you and Jeff could watch, so we can talk about them in future, uh, episodes. For whatever reason, the YouTube algorithm served me this thing, which was mega death, uh, drummer playing. Uh, I’ve never heard Mr. [00:58:00] Brightside playing that for the same time. And, and, um, and, and is this guy, Dirk? He’s, he’s young, right? [00:58:06] Christina: So he like, he’s like one of the, the current mega death drummers. He’s not like going way back and whatnot, but he’s very, very good. And he somehow never heard Mr. Brightside. I don’t know how, but never heard that. He [00:58:17] Brett: great song. Great [00:58:19] Christina: amazing song, right? And it’s weird because he’s like, he’s like, I think he might even be younger than me. [00:58:23] Christina: I don’t even know. So like, I don’t know how he missed Mr. Brightside. The song, but he did, he missed it. Um, he’d also never heard, um, um, uh, Paramore, um, uh, Misery Business. And, um, they did a follow up with, with, with him on that, but, uh, this, I guess this drum, you know, online service or whatever, like they have a really good YouTube channel and I don’t know anything about drumming and whatnot, but the, basically how, what they do is they, they play. [00:58:47] Christina: People like a song they’ve never heard for the first time, but the song, the version that he hears doesn’t have the drum parts in it. All of that has been silenced. So he has to come up on the spot, like, okay, how would I play the drums in this? So he’s writing out, as [00:59:00] he’s listening to the song, he’s writing out like the song structure. [00:59:02] Christina: And then he can take as much time as he wants. And he’s a pro. So he usually like a real pro, like he, you know, we’ll usually just like jump in like after he’s heard it once and like, you know, put in the drums as, as. He kind of wrote out and then we’ll listen to the final version and it was really, really interesting to see like what he did, um, on, on both of those songs. [00:59:23] Christina: Um, and, uh, like just as somebody who is not a musician in that way, um, has never played the drums and wouldn’t be able to do that, like, but just watching, like his whole process, freaking Awesome. Like, incredibly cool. Like, incredibly cool. Like, I have to give, like, this, this Dromeo company or whatever, like, kudos. [00:59:42] Christina: Like, they figured out a really good genres of content for people and they probably do a good job pushing people to using, you know, their, their services or whatever it is that they’re, you know, trying to, trying to, like, shill for. But, um, uh, really cool concept. So, um, I think, I think that you’ll, um, [01:00:00] You’ll like that. [01:00:01] Brett: I’m looking forward to that. Uh, what was, oh, the other thing I wanted to talk about was, so I’m giving a talk at Backstock. [01:00:09] The Future of iThoughts [01:00:09] Brett: Uh, sign up using code ttscoff if you haven’t gotten tickets yet. Um, I’m I wrote my, as I always do, I wrote my whole presentation in a mind map, um, which is just, it’s how I think, it’s how I organize, and I wrote it in iThoughts, which is now discontinued, and that’s very sad, but I think it’ll work for a few years. [01:00:33] Brett: One of the features it has is Presentation Mode, and you can select nodes, in the map and add a slide for that node. And you can like, you can create, um, basically, builds, like one step at a time, like selecting each node off of a parent and like creating a slide for it. And [01:01:00] then when you go into presentation mode, you go full screen, you dim all non focused. [01:01:06] Brett: Um, Nodes, and then it like pans around the map and like zooms in on whatever you saved as a slide. And, It is, it’s way cooler than what I would have built in like Keynote. Um, with the right, uh, style for your map, which I have heavily customized, it is just amazing presentation software. Um, if, if you think in mind maps and you just want to go straight from mind map to presentation, uh, I thought can export into, um, PowerPoint format. [01:01:45] Brett: But it, it kind of sucks at it, um, it doesn’t make anything beautiful or usable out of it. Um, but this presentation mode, uh, slides focusing on specific nodes, so good, [01:02:00] and no other MindMap software that I know of can do this. And I sent an email to Craig yesterday, um, asking if he had considered handing off the code base to anyone else. [01:02:19] Brett: And I volunteered. To, [01:02:22] Christina: take it [01:02:23] Brett: to keep, to take. Yeah. Um, uh, Luke from Hook, mark asked me if I wanted to take over, uh, hook, hook mark, um, as he wanted to retire, and I gave that a lot of thought and decided it wasn’t. Uh, it’s a great app and I use it all the time, but I didn’t want to be responsible for the customer support on something that most people find very confusing. [01:02:54] Brett: Um, so, so I, I kind of passed on that, but I [01:03:00] thoughts. Dude, if you, if I could be like, I’m Brett Terpstra, I develop Marked, Envy Ultra, and iThoughts. If that came, if all of those came to fruition, I would, I would, I would, I would be a developer to contend with. But anywho, that was, that was a long spiel about iThoughts. [01:03:20] Brett: I’m sorry. Um, [01:03:22] Christina: No, I think that’s great. And I mean, honestly, like, if there’s a way, like, I don’t know how much it would cost for you to like, take it on. Like, I don’t know what, you know, like both to, you know, take it onward and also like, what would the cost would be, you know, to, you know, maintain it and all that stuff. [01:03:38] Christina: But that, that, that could be really cool. [01:03:43] Brett: I don’t, I don’t know what his current income off it is. It’s probably not selling a lot direct, but like transferring it to a subscription model, you would lose customers. [01:03:58] Christina: But I mean, [01:03:59] Brett: would [01:04:00] also get recurring income. And I, I offered him like percentage of future income, uh, uh, versus like buying the code base off him. [01:04:11] Brett: Um, I don’t have the liquid cash to buy what I think it’s worth. Anyhow, we’ll see what he says. I have no idea. Um, it would be, it would be cool. It would be fun. Do you remember tags? The app? [01:04:24] Christina: I do remember tags. I loved tags, as I recall. [01:04:28] Brett: I did inherit that app. Uh, at the time it was right when, um, Apple basically, uh, Sherlocked Open Meta [01:04:39] Christina: Yeah. [01:04:40] Brett: and, and made Finder Tags a thing. [01:04:44] Brett: And the developers of Tags wanted Tags to work with, uh, Apple’s implementation of K, KM user tags, whatever, which was an easy fix. Like, [01:05:00] they gave me the codebase, like, for free, and, um, I was supposed to keep it alive, but at the same time there was an OS upgrade that broke all of the Quartz graphic, uh, uh, API that they were using. Not like rewriting it from, from using open meta tags to finder tags. That’s like a 15 minute job. No problem. Rewriting all of the GUI that, that got real sticky for me. And it kind of, the app died in my hands. Like I watched like a heart slowly beating to death in my hands and I felt pretty bad about that. [01:05:50] Brett: Um, yeah, back to mental health corner, back to things I feel guilty and sad about. [01:05:58] Christina: Well, I mean, you did your best. I mean, that’s the thing is, [01:06:00] is that it’s, you know, you, okay. One thing was an easy fix, right? Okay. To get it, get it compatible with this new tagging system that, you know, was, was also kind of obsoleting aspects of the app. But then the other thing is that if there’s this, you know, significant OS update, that’s going to require a bunch of other things going on. [01:06:17] Christina: And like, sometimes that’s That’s not what you signed up for, right? Like, you’re like, okay, I can inherit this and do this one thing and I can have the best intentions. But, you know, you didn’t sign up to do a full app rewrite and [01:06:30] Brett: didn’t. I really didn’t. Um, it would be cool to try to revive it, but I, I really just want to get Envy Ultra out the door, and I had a Zoom with Fletcher yesterday, and we actually, the thing that’s been holding us up has been, uh, some store kit issues. Um, there have been like, Minor bugs that we fixed in, well, Fletcher has fixed in the [01:07:00] app itself. [01:07:01] Brett: But the biggest thing was we just, we couldn’t get it to work, uh, with the subscription model on the app store. Uh, and we’re still on StorKit V1 because we want to be compatible back to pre OS 13. Operating systems. Um, that’s important to Fletcher, less important to me. Uh, but I mean, Fletcher runs old enough hardware that up until like last week when he finally got a new MacBook, like he, he couldn’t even test on the latest version of Xcode, um, cause his machines were so outdated. [01:07:38] Brett: So it’s important to him to support older operating systems because I think he projects. His unwillingness to upgrade his hardware onto the general Mac community. Whereas like I get the analytics and [01:07:53] Christina: you’re able to see X number of people are already [01:07:56] Brett: OS 12, OS 12 is 1%. [01:08:00] Of my user base for Mark. Like it just isn’t like, it’s not worth supporting. [01:08:05] Brett: Um, and, and so I don’t, I support two operating systems in the rear view mirror, um, and then anything before that, sorry, no longer compatible. I provide older versions for them, [01:08:18] Christina: No, totally. Which, which, which is great. And, but, but it, but it’s hard and it’s, it’s great to do that. Like when you have an existing product that says, Hey, I’ll, I’ll provide an older version, not gonna get buck ’cause it’s not gonna get the latest updates, but you can still use this version of Mark back to whatever. [01:08:32] Christina: It’s harder when, I guess when you have a net new thing coming out and you’re, you’re looking at, okay, well how far back do we wanna go versus, you know, what do we not wanna do? Like, I, I like, you know, um. A number of apps, I mean, not, not, not, not a ton of them have made this decision, but an increasing number of apps are even making the decision, like, we’re not going to compile for Intel, right? [01:08:54] Christina: Like, even if we’re not using anything that would Make the, even if there’s nothing [01:09:00] about this app that [01:09:01] Brett: that’s, that would be ARM specific. [01:09:03] Christina: right, right. We’re just not going to bother with it because the latest, you know, APIs and other things, it’s not worth it. And it’s just, you know, an additional maintenance challenge. Right. And so I could see like, if I were building like a brand new app today, um, depending on who my target audience was, I might just be like, fuck it. [01:09:20] Christina: I’m not bothering with Intel. Um, I think for an app like, um, Um, uh, you know, Envy Ultra, I don’t think that’s, uh, something you can do, right? Because a lot of, a lot of your core base are going to be people who are going to still have older machines. Um, but how far back you want to go also, you know, is, is, is an open question. [01:09:41] Brett: I mean, we, we started NB Ultra so many years ago that it’s still in Objective C. So trying to incorporate, uh, new Swift libraries into it takes, it takes some extra work. Um, it is, um, It, the code [01:10:00] base is already outdated is what I’m saying. Um, so we have, we have, we have plans for a rewrite for a V2, um, but we are selling on subscription, which means we don’t have to go through the whole rigmarole of releasing a new version and demanding upgrade pricing and everything. [01:10:18] Brett: Um, yeah, so anyhow, anyhow, anyhow. Okay. That was a fun, I am talking so much. [01:10:26] Grapptitude: iTerm2 and Home Assistant [01:10:26] Brett: Let’s do Graptitude and let, let’s you start. [01:10:29] Christina: Sure. Okay. So, my Graptitude this week is iTerm2, um, which is, uh, an app I’m sure we’ve mentioned on previous Graptitudes, but this is one that, despite the fact that this has been my, you know, uh, basically default, like, terminal emulator for, I don’t even know how long, right? Like, I, I don’t even know. I have it in my dock on all of my machines. [01:10:51] Christina: It is one of the very first things I install on any new Mac. There’s nothing wrong with Terminal. app at all, but like iTerm2 is just fucking better. [01:10:59] Brett: and [01:11:00] Warp. Warp is a good app, but it’s really just trying to keep up with iTerm. [01:11:06] Christina: Yeah. [01:11:07] Brett: And iTerm is free. [01:11:10] Christina: iTerm is free in every sense of the word, right? Like it’s actually, um, Like, completely open source, like, I think, like, uh, GPL, like, V3, I think, even, like, and it’s [01:11:21] Brett: vibrant, with a vibrant community around it. [01:11:25] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is actually kind of one of the reasons that I, that I wanted to, to, uh, bring it up. So, um, about a month ago, um, uh, I turned to introduce like a pretty big update, um, that had been in the works for, like, Some of the features have been in the works for years, but basically version 3. 5 came out and the one of the, I guess, kind of main, like, kind of like headline features was the fact that as an option, there was a new AI feature that was not enabled by default. [01:11:52] Christina: That if you wanted to go into your settings, you could add in, um, an open AI key, yeah, an open AI API key. And you could [01:12:00] basically, um, use, um, uh, Basically, like, kind of have kind of like a way to chat with your terminals. So, to bring in some features that are very similar, um, to some of the things that, um, you can do with, with Warp [01:12:12] Christina: so, so like there’s, there’s a fig which basically had like, you know, kind of like a, you know, generative AI kind of terminal, you know, Uh, you know, um, uh, command line thing. [01:12:21] Christina: There, there’s warp there. Like a lot of these tools that are adding these things in, um, so that, uh, the GitHub CLI, um, uh, has a, has a co pilot component. Um, it, it built into that now, um, that started out as a different extension. So you can basically use natural language in your terminal and, and get really good things back. [01:12:38] Christina: And this is a useful, uh, like case for, uh, for generative AI because like, Terminal man pages are really, really great with this. Like, like, I don’t have to think about like what, how, what’s the process of writing an FFmpeg script to do this or to do something else or use ImageMagick. Like, there are a lot of services that are really great just to be able to talk to your, um, [01:13:00] terminal about that. [01:13:00] Christina: And, um, so iTerm2 introduced this feature. I thought they did it in a pretty great way. It was certainly not installed by default and, and, you know, nothing was, was at risk. Um, Some very vocal members of the community, who I don’t even know how much these people actually used the application, to be honest, looking at some of the things, lost their shit. [01:13:22] Christina: Like, when, like, I, I, I get it. Maybe you don’t like AI stuff. Fine. That’s, that, that’s fine. Keep in mind, this is free software in every sense of the word. It is both open source and it is actually free as in gratis. That, you know, the, the, this guy who’s built this app that so many of us rely on, like. [01:13:36] Christina: Doesn’t, like, make direct money off of, um, you know, basically, you know, gets support contracts, or, you know, it’s from people like Brett and myself who are, uh, now donating, um, to, uh, to the cause. But people lost their fucking shit and were really gross and were saying, like, really negative things about the dev. [01:13:56] Christina: And, and it was ridiculous. And, and he was like, look, These [01:14:00] issues have been here, like I’ve been working on some of these features for like over two years, like this isn’t, wasn’t hidden from anybody, like You know, people were going to these ridiculous like links to the agreements. Oh, you’re in the inshittification of everything I’m like, you don’t even fucking know what the word means Like I get that everybody wants to say that everything’s been inshittified and I’m like, this is not an example of that, right? [01:14:19] Christina: Like Cory Dockrow would not agree with that. It’s really not. Um, [01:14:23] Brett: Or, or, uh, what’s his name with the Rot Economy? Uh, Edzeetron. Like, this does not apply. None of this applies. [01:14:30] Christina: not, not even remotely. Um, so what, what the developer did because of the backlash came forward and was like, fine, I’ll rip the feature out. I will release it as a separate plugin that you can install and enable. And once you have it installed and you put in your open AI, you know, API key, um, then you can, you know, put in kind of your prompt and, and you can, you know, choose your model and, and that’s fine. [01:14:53] Christina: Um, I actually think the feature is pretty cool. And it’s, it’s one of those things where you can write in natural language, but you can also kind [01:15:00] of have a preview of like what things would look like if you wanted your terminal to do it, um, you know, for you, which obviously most people aren’t going to trust, but it’s, you know, it’ll show you what needs to happen and, and you can talk in like natural language through a chat menu, like with, with your terminal, which I think is pretty fucking cool. [01:15:19] Christina: Um, but even, even without the AI stuff, um, I just, uh, what, what that whole drama kind of, um, highlighted for me, I was like, Oh, I get a tremendous amount of value from this app and I don’t pay for it. So I do now. I’m, I’m one of his GitHub sponsors. Um, and so I’m, I’m in the, the credits, um, of the app when you go to, you know, the about page. [01:15:45] Christina: Um, and, uh, [01:15:46] Brett: You can see both Christina and my name and a small screenshot of the, of the about page. I, I can’t believe there are only enough sponsors that can fit on an about[01:16:00] [01:16:00] Christina: I agree. [01:16:01] Brett: Like so many, so many more people. Yeah. So many more people should be paying for this. Um, have you seen what Warp did with AI? I’m going to drop a link. [01:16:11] Brett: Um, it like, It’s, it’s very similar, but it’s literally on the command line. It will recognize whether you’re typing a command or you’re typing in natural language. And you can just at the command line, ask it. You know, I want to see a Git log sorted in this way with these, um, these fields, and it will write the prompt for you, or yeah, it’ll write the command for you. [01:16:40] Brett: And it’s, I think it’s really well done, but I do appreciate, um, the kind of chat dialogue version that, that iTerm has, where you can kind of, and you can, if it gives you a command, like you said, you have the option to insert it directly into your terminal. Or you have the option to edit [01:17:00] it in place, and yeah. [01:17:02] Brett: Anyhow, good choice, good pick. [01:17:06] Christina: hmm It’s a great app and honestly like I’m giving a 10 a month like kind of recurring donation right now But and and I don’t know how long I’ll continue to do that But like I figure I do at least for a while because I’ve gotten tons of value of this app, you know for free over However long I’ve been using it [01:17:24] Brett: 10 bucks for about a year now. So I’ve, I’ve, I’ve donated over a hundred dollars to this term. I mean, it’s where I live. [01:17:34] Christina: Yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say, I increasingly do, and like, this is, like, I know that there’s some terminal apps, like Alacrity is apparently like a little bit faster at certain things, and Kiting and other things, and like, that’s great, but like, iTerm2 is like a fucking great Mac app, and it is, like, I think like, is the gold standard that everybody else holds themselves to. [01:17:51] Brett: well, everyone, like I said, everyone’s just trying to catch up. It’s like I term the, every version that comes out [01:18:00] new features that everyone else is eventually going to try to copy. [01:18:04] Christina: Totally, totally. They have it first. And I mean, um, I will say, um, I feel like this is okay to share, um, because it’s been several years. Well, it’s been a number of years, probably five years now since this has been the case. But, you know, Windows Terminal, which is one of my favorite apps on Windows, um, for a lot of reasons. [01:18:22] Christina: I love the people who work on that and it’s open source and it’s one of my favorite projects from people at Microsoft. But I talked to that team when Windows Terminal launched and like they told me very clearly their kind of bellwether of like what they want to, you know, achieve was iTerm2. [01:18:37] Christina: And that to me, like that’s how, that’s why I knew I was like, okay, this is why this is like, these are cool ass people. And like, why this is a project to pay attention to, because if that’s what they’re looking at, you know, it’s going to get as inspiration. Like to me, that’s That’s the right way to do it, right? [01:18:53] Christina: Like, you know, like maybe have more, be like, okay, the people who are going to be building this thing are, are people who will [01:19:00] understand why, you know, a well designed terminal is important. So yeah. Um, [01:19:05] Brett: I’m sure you’ve noticed this. Have you seen that you can focus the output of any command just by clicking it with the mouse? [01:19:13] Christina: Yes. [01:19:14] Brett: Like it used to be, you could hit command, shift A and select the full output output of the last command. Now you can scroll through your unlimited history, click any output, and it will focus it and, and like dim everything else and you can copy and re and reproduce commands and edit previous commands. [01:19:35] Brett: It’s so good. Anyhow, yes, I term, I term two, which is on version 3. [01:19:41] Christina: Yes, exactly. [01:19:43] Brett: I term two 3. 5. Um, my pick is, and I’ve been a home assistant. Like I want to talk about home assistant. Um, I’ve been using Indigo for Years, a decade, um, to work with all of my [01:20:00] Insteon and ZigBee and Z Wave devices. Um, and, and I, I like Insta, uh, I like Indigo. [01:20:07] Brett: Um, the web interface and the Python interface are pretty fantastic, but. I wanted to integrate better with things like Hue, um, and, and all of the other more Apple focused devices I have around my house that Indigo can’t. Uh, like my Govee lighting, um, which is You know, you can use it with Alexa, but there’s no way you’re going to get it to work with the Home app. [01:20:37] Brett: Um, so I’ve been meaning to install Home Assistant. I, I was going to do it on Raspberry Pi that I still haven’t even unpacked. And then I noticed that there was a Synology package. For Home Assistant Core. And so I installed that and the setup was so good. Uh, it detected all of the devices on my [01:21:00] network and I could just click it. [01:21:02] Brett: Uh, added a few options for each kind of device, assign it to a room. It’s Apple TV setup was fantastic. And [01:21:10] Christina: Home Assistant’s [01:21:11] Brett: can control, control my Apple TV through home control. Um, I’m very impressed with it as a free project. Again, I feel like we’re on an open source kick today, but Home Assistant, I don’t know if it’s full OSS, uh, but it is, it is free and it’s, it’s pretty fucking good. [01:21:33] Christina: And they’ve got a really, really, really vibrant community. Um, they have like, almost 70, 000 stars on GitHub, and they’re very active, um, with a lot of, with lots of people. Um, uh, we, um, they’re, they’re part of our maintainer program, and they’ve been, you know, part of, um, some of the, you know, various events and things that we’ve had. [01:21:51] Christina: So I’ve been able to interact with some members of their core team over the years, and they’re really, really great. Like, I, I think that just what, what Home [01:22:00] Assistant is doing, you know, um, is fantastic because it’s making it easy for all of these different things to work together. Um, like, these standards that we claim, you know, that for the better, for more than a decade at this point, like we’ve been promised like, oh, this stuff will make sense. [01:22:16] Christina: And, and they’re now like matter has been supposed to be the savior, you know, for the last few years. But like the matter support is, is garbage and, and getting things to work across different things is kind of annoying. And like, yeah, there’ve been things like Homebridge and other stuff, which is, which is great. [01:22:32] Christina: But no, but like Home Assistant is [01:22:33] Brett: Great, great, but flaky [01:22:35] Christina: but very flaky, to be [01:22:37] Brett: And I had such high hopes for Matter, and they’re not panning out, and yeah. [01:22:42] Christina: Totally. Uh, but I don’t even fuck with it. Like for my limited, um, smart home stuff in it, I don’t have a ton of it, but the stuff that I do have, I’ve been using similar to you, like Home Assistant running on a Synology package. Um, but then also just knowing that like, you can like run them on basically any type of [01:23:00] device that’s out there. [01:23:01] Christina: Um, and, and the community is really, really good. [01:23:05] Brett: All right. That was a fun Graptitude. [01:23:08] Christina: it was. [01:23:09] Brett: I wonder what Jeff would have picked. Um, anyhow, we’re at, we’re at almost an hour thirty, minus edits. Um, Christina, it’s been a lot of fun. [01:23:22] Christina: It’s been a great time, Brett. Get some sleep. [01:23:24] Brett: Get some sleep.

Overtired Goes Overtime with Sports, PTSD, and Coffee Controversies In this episode of Overtired, Brett and Christina are joined by guest Jay Miller for an impromptu sports-centric discussion that spans the globe from baseball to European soccer. Along the way, they dive into the logistics of crazy travel schedules, the trials of corporate events, and the importance of happy birthday attention. They also discuss the latest in Mac tools, including Launch Control, Ecamm Live, and the rising star, Mise. All this while periodically engaging in sidebar rants about loud tech conferences and the struggles of navigating evolving relationships during Father’s Day. Grab your AeroPress, sit back, and enjoy the tangents. Sponsor Travel better with better coffee. Head to aeropress.com/OVERTIRED and save 20% off your order! Thanks to AeroPress for sponsoring today’s episode! Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Host Welcome 00:29 Christina’s California Adventures 01:21 Travel Plans and Pet Dilemmas 04:54 MHC: Family Visits and Birthday Plans 10:32 MHC: Jay’s PTSD and Conference Experiences 25:17 MHC: Christina’s Week at DubDub and Pixar Visit 29:43 Balancing Work and Personal Events 30:53 Upcoming Speaking Engagements 31:39 Sponsor: AeroPress Go Plus 34:20 The Art of Coaching in Sports 35:26 The Fascination with Baseball Stats 41:05 The Journey of Baseball Players 43:20 The Culture of Baseball and Minor Leagues 54:10 grAPPtitude: Exploring Live Streaming Tools 58:35 grAPPtitude: Managing Development Environments 01:02:19 grAPPtitude: Launch Control for Mac 01:04:21 Concluding Thoughts and Future Topics Show Links Macstock (use code TTSCOFF) Black Python Devs LaunchControl Ecamm Live mise asdf comparison Highlights https://overtiredpod.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Highlight-Reel-of-Weirdly-A-Sports-Episode.mp4 Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Weirdly, A Sports Episode [00:00:00] Introduction and Host Welcome [00:00:00] [00:00:02] Brett: Hey, you’re listening to Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren. Jeff is out this week, but filling in, we have Jay Miller. Welcome to the show, Jay. [00:00:15] Jay: What’s up? It’s always good to be here. Also, sorry if I sound not like me. I’ve been, I’ve been conferencing a lot lately. So, [00:00:24] Christina: The voice, the voice goes out a little [00:00:25] Brett: good. You sound good. [00:00:27] Jay: the voice is always low. [00:00:29] Christina’s California Adventures [00:00:29] Brett: And Christina just got back from California. [00:00:32] Christina: I did. I did. And I’ll be back in California in a week. [00:00:37] Brett: That’s a lot of California. [00:00:38] Jay: That sounds like my July. [00:00:41] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Um, this, this was not like an intended thing. Like, Christina thought that she was going to be in California. Last week, and then was asked to, well, thought that the ask was to be in California for maybe a day or two next week. [00:00:56] Christina: Turns out, no, I misinterpreted some things, or maybe some things are [00:01:00] misinterpreted to me. Regardless, I’ll be in San Francisco the week of the 24th through the 28th, so [00:01:07] Brett: started that in the third person and finished in the first person. That was a, [00:01:11] Jay: I love it. [00:01:12] Brett: that was a cool transition. [00:01:14] Jay: I, um, I made the, the concerted commitment with the job that I’m at to not travel a lot. And then after. [00:01:21] Travel Plans and Pet Dilemmas [00:01:21] Jay: Uh, my wife and my daughter are planning a month long trip, um, also to California and I’m staying home to do work. It was like, well, I could probably travel a little bit more. So the, the week of like July 8th, I’m going from New York, from New York to Toronto. [00:01:43] Jay: I’m back home for two days, then I fly back to New York, and then I’m there for another four more days. I get back, I’m back for a week, and then I fly to London for the Relay event. And I was just like, I did not realize how stupid I was in all of my [00:02:00] bookings. [00:02:00] Christina: right, right. Yeah, it totally, if you thought about that more, like, you probably would not have, like, gone back and forth between, like, Toronto and and home just to come back to New York, [00:02:11] Jay: Well, it’s like I have to, I would have to pay And like, our, our company was like, we’ll pay for the event plus a day before and after. So I was like, okay, that’s awesome. But that also means that I like fly home for three days and do nothing. And then like, do I even get my dogs out of like the pet hotel at that point? [00:02:34] Jay: Or like, do I just leave them in? [00:02:35] Brett: Of course you do. You gotta see your dogs. [00:02:39] Jay: I mean, they’re kind of dumb. I love them, but they’re kind of dumb. [00:02:44] Christina: Well, no, but that is like a hard thing to figure out like yeah Cuz you’re there like just long enough where you’re like, okay It does make sense for me to pick them up, but I’m gonna have to drop them back off Anyway, probably the day before I leave depending on when I’m leaving. So you’re like, okay So is it worth it for 24 [00:03:00] hours, right? [00:03:00] Christina: Like is it like yeah, that that that That’s a hard calculus. [00:03:04] Brett: I think it would take me like two weeks to miss my dog. Um, like she’s lovable in short bursts, but Man, like, give me a week away and I’m like, oh, man, I don’t miss that dog. [00:03:18] Jay: I feel like it’d be cool if I could just do visitation rights. Just like, Hey, can I just go to the pet hotel and be like, Hey, I see you. [00:03:24] Brett: There you go. [00:03:25] Jay: look [00:03:25] Christina: I mean, honestly, I mean, honestly, that would be the best thing. You’d be like, look, I’m going to continue to pay you continuously. But like, I would love to take, can I take the dog out? Can I take him out for a walk? [00:03:34] Brett: Yeah. You get all, you get all the fun, the visitation. You’re like the, the divorced dad who, who gets to like spoil his kids on weekends and then doesn’t have to do childcare the rest of the week. [00:03:49] Christina: Mom is so pissed. Mom in this case is, is, is, is the pet hotel. Although the pet hotel is getting [00:03:54] Jay: they’re getting paid. You’re getting, you’re getting dog support. Like, I feel like [00:03:57] Christina: to say [00:03:58] Brett: like alimony. [00:04:00] I’ve never been, I’ve never had kids. I don’t know what I’m talking about. [00:04:04] Christina: Yeah, I, same, but, but I was gonna say this is, this is gonna be like double alimony, right? This is like double child support. [00:04:09] Christina: You’re like, oh, mom, you get, you get this and the kids get stuff. So like, actually don’t be as much of a bitch about this, because I promise. [00:04:16] Jay: of a broken home, it tracks. [00:04:19] Brett: Oh, wow. I wonder how many people we just offended. Or, or hurt. Happy Father’s Day! [00:04:26] Christina: Yeah. [00:04:26] Jay: Yeah. [00:04:30] Christina: Oh my god. I have to, I have to call, I have to call my dad, [00:04:33] Brett: Yeah, I remembered, I remembered like an hour before this, I sent my dad a Amazon gift card. Um, which is what I do on stupid holidays like Father’s Day and Mother’s Day. I’ll show up for a birthday. [00:04:46] Jay: They called me, so I feel like, I feel like that was their hand of like, Oh, I should probably tell them Happy Father’s Day. I [00:04:54] MHC: Family Visits and Birthday Plans [00:04:54] Brett: Um, So yeah, if I could start a mental health corner, it’s actually kind of [00:05:00] related. Um, I went to breakfast with my parents, which I haven’t done for like a year because of the whole like religious trauma, complex PTSD thing, and I showed up and they had hidden all of their religious stuff. Uh, they took down like God is love stuff off the wall. [00:05:21] Brett: They took all the like, uh, they had like Newsmax magazines and stuff. Last time I visited and all of that was hidden. Everything that could trigger me was hidden away and it felt super respectful. And the conversation stayed on like family and work and. Nothing triggering, and it was actually a pretty good visit. [00:05:42] Brett: We decided we’ll try to do it monthly moving forward instead of weekly. But yeah, I was impressed. Yeah. Um, [00:05:51] Jay: feel like quarterly would have been my goal. Like, I, I, I love, like, Seeing my parents and then [00:06:00] having that space, like, I mean, this whole move out east was to be like in between my parents and my grandparents. And it was like, great, Thanksgiving comes around, Christmas comes around, birthdays, like [00:06:13] Brett: you have to, do they show up at your place in between? Do you have to host them? [00:06:18] Jay: Yeah, which I don’t mind, like, I mean, we have the space now. And like, honestly, the kitchen that we we grabbed, like, the big selling point was the double ovens. So that like, Cooking and doing the big, the big family get togethers is, it’s like, kind of like, you can do it. Um, and then they’ll bring stuff, so that’s always nice. [00:06:39] Jay: But yeah, instead of people complaining that, oh, it’s a five hour drive, or it’s a flight, it’s like, well, now it’s a two hour drive. And, um, Yeah, and I’ll make that like, I’ll go visit my mom for Mother’s Day or whatever, and then I’ll go up and visit my grandparents for their birthdays, and then, you know, at that point, I’m seeing someone once a quarter, and I’m like, this is good. [00:06:59] Jay: This [00:07:00] is, this is just enough [00:07:01] Brett: Yep. That sounds about right. Someday I’m going to get a real house that I can like host people in. Um, I don’t, I would have like a two day limit on anyone visiting. Um, back when I had a house with Aditi, like her parents would come for like a week and that it’s just too much time to share a house with your parents. [00:07:23] Brett: Um, So like two day, two day, maybe three days on special occasions. But like, I have a birthday coming up in July and I’m trying to organize a birthday party and we can comfortably host like four people at my house and I haven’t had a birthday party in, Um, I was supposed to do a hitchhiker’s themed party for my 42nd, but then COVID happened. [00:07:50] Brett: And so I just, I haven’t had a party and I really like my birthday. Like, uh, if. If I don’t get enough happy birthday [00:08:00] attention, I get depressed about it. Like, I crave that, like, it’s my special day and I’m not a guy who’s going to be like, it’s my birthday week and everyone has to celebrate me for a whole week, but for one day, one day show up, just say happy birthday. [00:08:15] Brett: Um, and, and I’m happy. I don’t need gifts. I don’t need any of that. I just need attention. So I’m throwing a party and I’ve invited 25 people. Six of them have confirmed that they are coming, and two maybes, and maybe the rest of my friends just don’t check Facebook that often, or they’re ignoring me, which I get, I get. [00:08:36] Brett: I invited some people that I know peripherally. [00:08:39] Christina: No, [00:08:39] Brett: Yeah, you think so? [00:08:40] Christina: I think, I think it’s the Facebook thing. You might need to find like an alternate way of inviting them. [00:08:45] Brett: It’s just the easiest way to put an event together, [00:08:48] Christina: You’re not wrong. You’re not wrong, but people don’t use Facebook anymore. [00:08:52] Brett: Yeah, [00:08:52] Jay: I’m, I’m just incredibly impressed that you have, like, friends that you didn’t meet on the internet. [00:08:58] Brett: I do. I have [00:09:00] like, I have like 25 people right here in, in town. [00:09:04] Christina: Yeah, that’s amazing. I have, I, I have 25 people I could invite to my birthday. They are not in Seattle. [00:09:10] Jay: Yeah, like, [00:09:12] Brett: I [00:09:12] Jay: my friends that are local I met on the internet. [00:09:15] Brett: I considered inviting people from Minneapolis, but I just don’t feel like my birthday is important enough to make that two and a half hour drive. So, you know. Okay, I’m gonna shut up. I, I watched, uh, uh, a guy, a city planner who reviews cities did a thing on YouTube about Minneapolis, and he was really impressed with like the neighborhoods, Dinky Town, Uptown, Sewer, uh, not sewer. [00:09:46] Brett: What is it called? [00:09:47] Jay: That’s a lovely [00:09:48] Brett: it sounds like soot, soot, sewer. Wow, I forgot the name of it. But anyway, um, he was really impressed with that. But downtown, because it’s, because it’s Minnesota, downtown is [00:10:00] all skyways. Um, like you can walk from like downtown to like Target State, Target. Stadium all in Skyways and you can navigate the whole city and never see street level. [00:10:15] Brett: So a lot of businesses are up on like the second story and it’s like one big strip mall and there’s really no like downtown walkable. It’s kind of a desolate lot of cars. I mean, there’s some bike paths, but anyway, I digress. [00:10:32] MHC: Jay’s PTSD and Conference Experiences [00:10:32] Brett: So Jay, how are you doing? [00:10:34] Jay: Um, I’m, I’m doing better. Um, I had to go back and figure out when was the last time I was here and it was in January. So I was like, okay, what’s happened since January? PTSD is what has happened since January. I’ve had a corporate offsite in Spain, which was great, except for it wasn’t because we were stuck on a like hotel, basically like the [00:11:00] hotel attached to an amusement park. [00:11:01] Jay: But if like the amusement park was like a discount Six Flags, [00:11:07] Brett: Okay. [00:11:07] Jay: And the actual event was planned by the amusement park staff, so they really didn’t want you leaving. [00:11:15] Christina: Oh no. So you, you, you’re instead of being like at a Disney resort, which could be annoying and frustrating, but at least it’d be a Disney resort. You’re at not even a Six Flags. [00:11:25] Jay: yeah, I was at like four flags. It was, it was great. Um, but eventually I just said screw that and then I snuck out and then actually went into like Tarragona, Spain and had an amazing time. Um, but the event was You know, your normal startup, corporate, you know, all hands get together. Flashing lights, loud noises, no visual sensitivity or photosensitivity warnings anywhere, the same food for five days. [00:11:57] Jay: You know, it’s, it’s what you expect. [00:12:00] Um, and yeah, since then I’ve been having these weird like anxiety attacks following like loud noises. And I, I got diagnosed with PTSD a while back, but I. Felt like it was more tied to like trauma and not like tied to bangs or anything. Like I’ve never, I’ve never been in a combat zone. [00:12:21] Jay: So like, it doesn’t make sense to, to have that. But there, there’s like a level of like, I don’t feel safe here, including with loud noises that have been triggering like really bad panic attacks. And, um, Yeah, that happened this past week at Render. Um, for those that don’t know who are listening, Render Atlanta is like this conference that I think was supposed to be one thing at one point, and then when they learned we can make a ton of money off of this, so now it’s slowly evolved into like South by Southeast. [00:12:54] Christina: They’re trying. [00:12:55] Jay: Yeah, that’s how they promote it. So [00:12:58] Christina: I’m curious what your [00:13:00] take was from the event, because I’ve been the last two or three years, I wasn’t able to be there this year, and yeah, I’m bothered by their attempt to call it a South by Southeast thing, because I’m like, you’re not South by Southwest, you don’t want to draw those comparisons right now, like, you’re not ready for that, like, which, [00:13:17] Jay: also don’t want to go to South by Southwest. [00:13:19] Christina: there’s that, but it’s also like, for me, like, it’s just, I’m kind of like, you had this really good thing. [00:13:24] Christina: You’re not actually ready to be in the conversation of a South by Southwest. You’re not actually there yet as, as an event. People will have, people will have expectations for, for what an event will be, and it’s not that. [00:13:36] Brett: our, our tourist center tried to make our town slogan keep it weird. [00:13:41] Christina: Oh [00:13:41] Brett: I was like, you, you can’t, you, we’re a, we’re a town of [00:13:45] Jay: It’s already taken. [00:13:46] Brett: Yeah. It’s a, it’s not, it’s not a comparison that we are, um, safe drawing. [00:13:52] Jay: Yeah. So like, the, the really good of Render is that everybody that I want to see except for Christina, who wasn’t there [00:14:00] this year, like, is there. Like, it, You have YouTubers, like someone, someone introduced themselves as like, Hi, I am a social media influencer on Instagram. Can I take a picture of your outfit? [00:14:13] Jay: And I was literally wearing like a company t shirt and like some cargo pants and like some clean, like brand new Adidas. And I was like, I mean, I guess. Like, I don’t, I didn’t, I didn’t think that I dressed up for this, but sure. [00:14:30] Brett: I would have said Define Influencer. [00:14:32] Jay: I mean, it’s, whatever. [00:14:34] Christina: trying to be nice. [00:14:35] Jay: yeah, if the company is happy and they want to keep paying for me to go to places, then like, you know, as long as it’s on, I have some say in it, then cool. [00:14:44] Jay: Um, but yeah, no, that was great. Like, I mean, Ashley was there, um, Emily Freeman. Like if you’re in the DevRel space, like all of the major people in DevRel were there, like across all [00:14:59] Christina: there. [00:15:00] I think like all my, all my friends were there and, and I was with my other friends who were in, you know, San Jose. It was like, it was very hard for me. I was like, I wanna be with all my friends at once. Why do they have to be the same week anyway? [00:15:12] Jay: and I, and I, I got to, I mean, I had several conversations with like Kelsey Hightower and like so many folks and I, it was, it was one of those things where a lot of people that I have spoken with online and that I look up to and that I talk to on a regular as like in kind of a mentor, mentee relationship with me being the mentee were like there, I got to, I got to let Ashley win her own, like her first pie raffle. [00:15:39] Jay: So I went to Pie Bar. Um, for those that don’t know, uh, Ashley Willis McNamara. Um, I can never remember which [00:15:47] Christina: It’s, it’s Will, will, will. Willis. Is Willis. Willis, but it used to be back in America, but Yes, but it’s Willis and she’s the [00:15:53] Jay: Um, but yeah, she would award, she would like, I think once a month or something, buy a [00:16:00] pie for a random, uh, one of her, her employees. And. Ashley and Christina were two of the people who interviewed me for my role at Microsoft. [00:16:12] Jay: And I, I had heard about this and one of the interview questions that when she’s like, Oh, do you have any questions for me? I was like, yeah, what pie do you like? Because I had seen this and I had heard about this. So like, you know, we had that conversation. So the last day of render, like I stopped at pie bar in Marietta on the way and like bought her a whole pie. [00:16:33] Jay: It was like, here. I was like, where are you? And she’s like, Oh, I’m outside the expo. I was like, all right, I’ll be right there. And I show up with like this, like grub hub order. And she’s like, Oh my God, is that a pie? And I was like, it is. It’s a pie. [00:16:45] Brett: we’re talking about actual edible [00:16:47] Christina: yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:16:48] Brett: I just assumed, I just assumed we were talking about raspberry [00:16:51] Christina: No, no, no, no, no. Although [00:16:53] Jay: this is a physical [00:16:54] Christina: although Ashley would also love raspberry pies to be clear. She would love those. She has them all over her office, but no, [00:16:59] Brett: ever buy like [00:17:00] gluten free pies for people? [00:17:01] Christina: would buy whatever pie they want. [00:17:03] Brett: Wow. [00:17:04] Christina: Like, like, I got, like, I got an amazing cherry pie or an apple pie or something, but it was freaking great. [00:17:08] Christina: Like, she’d get you whatever type you want. [00:17:10] Brett: That’s awesome. [00:17:11] Jay: but, but the, you know, the downside of that is this event is incredibly loud. It’s very well marketed and in my opinion, very poorly organized. And that is, that is just someone who spent several years trying to figure out how to put on my own conference and interacting with probably over a hundred conference organizers at this point across multiple like communities. [00:17:37] Jay: I think all of them would say that this was a poorly organized event. There were like six tracks with five other associative things going on all at the same time. There were talks during lunch, so like people have to choose, am I going to go to this talk or am I going to eat? And Basically, at the end, they were like, well, we [00:18:00] hired really big names to come and give like the closing key, like Shannon Sharp gave the closing keynote. [00:18:04] Jay: And I like, I was like, this is kind of cool. It also probably costs a ton of money. The speakers didn’t have a green room. The speakers didn’t have water, which I was like, that’s wild. Like the VIP, like they had like a VIP area, which they upcharged for people to be able to go to unless you were a speaker. [00:18:25] Jay: They were literally just tables. Like there was no, like no drinks, no snacks, like nothing. And I was just like, [00:18:33] Brett: What were the tables for? [00:18:35] Jay: I guess if people wanted to like get away and that’s what it seemed like is that you were paying for privacy. And I was like, this feels weird. Um, I don’t, I kind of don’t like that, but at the end I bumped into a friend who’s Dominican and I was like, yo, this is going to sound like kind of racist, but do you love baseball? [00:18:54] Jay: And he goes, why, because I’m Dominican? And I was like, yes. And he’s like, yes, I absolutely love baseball. [00:19:00] And I was like, how about we blow the keynote and just go to a Braves game instead? And then I proceeded to have like, one of my friends who I’ve known for years, which is why I was okay asking if they like baseball, even though I knew they were Dominican, they probably like baseball. [00:19:13] Jay: Um, but we went to like, probably one of the best games I’ve been to. And I’ve been to like 15 games in the last. So like, it felt absolutely amazing, and I know that that event was the reason that that happened, but at the same time, like, the event itself just put me in such a bad place, and I had like, I had a couple of PTSD events while I was there, which is like tying it all together. [00:19:41] Jay: Um, So yeah, like I’m better now now that the events over like me and my daughter hanging out this week we’re just like we’re just chillin my wife is away and Yeah, like I’m in a good spot now, but jeez last last week was It’s horrible.[00:20:00] [00:20:00] Christina: I’m so sorry to hear that and like and it sucks. I think you’re right Like I I’ve always really enjoyed render, but I felt the same way in terms of the organization to me It’s been one of those things where I’m like, I’m gonna put up with like the lack of Organizing stuff like because the the hallway track and stuff is so important and is so good that like that’s fine for me, but I’m glad to get your experience on that, but also that’s just like, that sucks, especially with your PTSD, you know, getting like triggered and [00:20:35] Brett: Not feeling safe. [00:20:36] Christina: not feeling good and not having, not having, you know, like not having like adequate rooms for speakers. [00:20:42] Christina: Right. Like that to me is, is like a, I can forgive a lot of stuff, but the thing is, is like Shannon Sharpe. You know that he had water, you know what I mean? You know that they, they, they, like, had, like, proper arrangements for him. Um, as they should, to be very clear. Like, he’s, he should absolutely [00:21:00] be given, like, all the things. [00:21:01] Christina: But, like, you, I don’t know, if you’re going to have a speaker like that there, you’re going to have, like, you need to have a decent VIP experience for all of your speakers, [00:21:12] Jay: And, and that was kind of like my biggest upset, like upset about the entire just situation was again, having talked to so many organizers, like we’ve had so many conferences in the Python ecosystem that are, that have shut down since COVID. Like, and a lot of it is just due to lack of sponsorship. And it’s not like people are asking for hundreds of thousands of dollars, like, Pi Ohio is a free event that’s like, one day, and it was held at, at Ohio State, now they’re having, they’re having to actually have it in like a different venue. [00:21:45] Jay: And like, 15, 000 is enough to probably fully fund that event. To like cover its operating costs, and they can’t find sponsors. Like, no one will sponsor, and this event’s been going on for almost a decade. So it’s just [00:22:00] like, It’s wild that, you know, PyCon US struggled with sponsors. You know, PyOhio and these small regional conferences are struggling with sponsors and events like PyTennessee and PyCarolinas and PyColorado have just shut down. [00:22:14] Jay: And, you know, I’m doing what I can to sponsor some of these events with, you know, Black Python devs and stuff now that we’re a non profit. But, I mean, we have a total operating budget of 20, 000. So like, we would go bankrupt sponsoring like one of these events outside of like what we’re like, what we’re promising them, which is like 600, 700. [00:22:37] Jay: But even then, like that is going miles for some of these organizers. And then when we look at like, What was the marketing budget for Render? I would have loved for Render to be able to like just sponsor some of these conferences out of their marketing budget and be like, Hey, come to Atlanta. And it would, it would do the thing that these conferences always promised to do, which is like [00:23:00] build the community, build up a healthy ecosystem of diverse developers all over the, you know, all over the U. [00:23:06] Jay: S. And It’s like, it’s, it’s really, it’s just a money making thing. And that’s where like, to me, I’m okay. I’m okay with them calling themselves, you know, South by Southeast or whatever, because what I think that’ll do is that will remove the idea of this is a technical conference for like developers. And it’s more of, this is an influencer event. [00:23:28] Christina: Yeah, I mean, if that’s what they want to do, I guess that’s what they need to do. I still feel like, um, I, and maybe it was different this year, but I know like last year, like, and they, and they, even the year before that, like, they’ve tried multiple times to like have additional music and other sorts of content alongside it. [00:23:41] Christina: And it’s, it has flopped. It has not been good. And so that’s part of the thing where I’m like. You can’t call yourself like this Omni Conference if you’re not like it’s a great meetup time and it’s a great space for people, you know, to get together and like, yeah, if you want to call it an influencer thing, that’s fine. [00:23:57] Christina: I just feel like you’ve got to be careful. Like South by Southwest [00:24:00] like has like a very like is an actual music festival is an actual film festival is an act, you know what I mean? Like has actual stuff for that. Like, Render does not. So if they want to be on that level and get the money that can go along with that, like, you know, to your, like, I think that they’ve been able to be really successful getting money because it’s been, you know, kind of a, a good place for, for a lot of like, uh, you know, tech people to come and, and, and tech companies to, to come and feel like they can, you know, hopefully, um, You know, like engage with like a community that frankly a lot of tech companies don’t engage with and, and, and all that stuff. [00:24:39] Christina: Um, but if you’re going to go like into this Omni thing, yeah, if it’s really going to bring in a lot of people. Um, I think you’re right. I think the organization in general probably just has to step up. But I’ve always had a really good time, but the people there are why you go. Um, you know, the, the event itself. [00:24:56] Christina: Maybe not so much, but it, but it’s disappointing that they didn’t have their shit [00:25:00] together, especially for, for speakers, you know, and that they didn’t have things like quiet spaces and stuff like that, like basic things that conferences who were way smaller do have their shit together on that. Like, that’s always, that, that, that’s always disappointing when there’s [00:25:14] Jay: that’s it for me. [00:25:15] Christina: Yeah, [00:25:17] MHC: Christina’s Week at DubDub and Pixar Visit [00:25:17] Brett: All right, Christina, how you doing? [00:25:19] Christina: I’m doing okay. Um, I was in San Jose this week, which was, which was great. So I was at DubDub while I was quote at, I wasn’t really, like, I didn’t get to go to the keynote. Um, but, um, I, I watched that with, with, um, some community members, but I did go to the talk show and I went to a bunch of other, um, kind of evening events and got to meet up with people who I haven’t seen in years and years, which was fantastic. [00:25:40] Christina: I also got to, um, uh, shout out to Colin Allen who invited me, Command Tab on, um, the various platforms who invited me over to Pixar on Friday. And so I, I went over to Emeryville and I got to see Pixar, um, which I’ve never been to before. And then I actually really coolly, I got to go see Inside Out 2 with, um, the Pixar systems [00:25:59] Brett: to see that. Don’t [00:26:00] don’t spoil it for [00:26:01] Christina: no, I’m not [00:26:01] Brett: but I’m so excited for that movie. [00:26:03] Christina: I’m not going to spoil anything except to say out there, it’s really, really good. Like, Pixar has needed a hit for a lot of reasons, and I haven’t really liked a lot of the last few Pixar films, if I’m being completely candid. Um, I hadn’t, I hadn’t kept up with anything on Inside Out 2 before I saw it. [00:26:18] Christina: It’s great. It’s really, really [00:26:20] Brett: I loved Inside Out 1, and I’m told Inside Out 2 is great for people with anxiety. [00:26:26] Christina: It definitely is. It definitely is. And I would say it like definitely like you’re not gonna cry the same way you would with like the the first one because it doesn’t have that like little kid kind of thing, but it it um, Uh, the only i’m not spoiling anything, but yeah, it’s great for people. The anxiety thing is a really good. [00:26:40] Christina: Um, uh, Kind of description of what that stuff is. Um, if you have been a teenage girl before, you are going to have some secondhand embarrassment in moments of it. That’s just a, that’s just a preparation thing. That’s not a spoiler. Um, but no, it’s, it’s, it was really, really good. And it was really cool to watch that with The [00:27:00] Pixar folks, but only enough, Jay, you’ll, you’ll appreciate this. [00:27:03] Christina: So I’m in Emeryville. I like, we walked from the Pixar campus to the AMC movie theater. I’m, um, a bunch of Pixar people, you know, got tickets and stuff for us. And I was, it was so kind of them to invite me along, like genuinely, like that was one of the highlights, like of my life to like watch a movie with like, a, you know, Theater full of Pixar people. [00:27:23] Christina: But in that theater, a guy walks up to me and taps me on the shoulder and says, Hey, how are you? And it was Brian Douglas. [00:27:30] Jay: Oh, [00:27:31] Christina: Brian Douglas happens, happens to live in the area and happened to be there with his kids. Um, they were in the show. It was, he’s the guy who, um, used to be my boss at GitHub and, and runs Open Sauce. [00:27:41] Christina: Fantastic guy, but, but, um, but Jay knows him as well. [00:27:43] Jay: I’ve known Brian for, I’ve known Brian as long as I’ve been in tech. [00:27:48] Christina: Brian’s fantastic, but it was just the smallest world ever. I’m like, I’m in Emeryville, like of all the places to be, like where I would run into somebody that I know. Yeah, I do too. I do too. It genuinely was like [00:28:00] freaking amazing because I was like, it was this very odd thing. I was explaining to like the, some of my new Pixar friends. [00:28:05] Christina: I was like, Oh yeah, no, I used, he used to be my boss. Like he, he has his own startup, um, you know, he’s doing great, but it was just a very funny small world. Um, so [00:28:16] Jay: for that opportunity to surprise Brett, just some random like encounter, like, Hey, I didn’t know that you were in the third floor of somewhere in Minneapolis today. [00:28:28] Christina: yeah, no, I would love that. [00:28:30] Brett: I will be, I will be in Minneapolis at a hotel for Aaron’s Black Metal show on the 29th. If you, if you are traveling through Minneapolis, look me up. Or if you live in [00:28:45] Jay: if the twins are playing. Maybe I’ll like, I’ll go to a baseball [00:28:49] Brett: after, after Christina is done and we have done a sponsor read, I really want to talk about sports, which is weird for me. [00:28:58] Christina: no, no, no. [00:29:00] No, I’m just going to finish up. So I had a great week with people. Um, it was really, really great to see folks. I am a little bit stressed about work right now because I have a bunch of stuff that I have to get done in a week. Um, that, um, is, is a whole lot. So I’m about to be under, like, it’s going to be one of those big tests for my ADHD to be like, okay, all right. [00:29:22] Christina: All right. Hyper focus skill, like come in handy, like save me. Um, So I’m a little bit stressed about that. Um, but, uh, and, and I’m, uh, not super enthused to be leaving town in a week from now for another week, but it, it, it’s okay. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll make it work. But, um, but no, overall, my mental health was good. [00:29:41] Christina: It was really nice to be around people. [00:29:43] Balancing Work and Personal Events [00:29:43] Christina: Like, um, It was, I was able to, unlike being at, I missed being at Render, but unlike being at Render, because I was working during the day, it was one of those nice things where I kind of had like a good separation, you know, between how much you have to be on and whatnot. [00:29:59] Christina: And I also have to [00:30:00] say selfishly, like, It was really nice being at an event that is not my event because then like the expectations that are on you are different, [00:30:08] Brett: would be way less stress, I [00:30:10] Christina: right? Well, and then also that, you know, that I’m not speaking at to that point too, right? And so it kind of reminds me why I do try to put at least one of those things on my calendar a year where it’s like, this is just a thing I’m doing for me that I’m not speaking at, that I don’t have a work obligation to like XOXO will be my next one. [00:30:27] Christina: And that’s going to be the last XOXO. Um, but like, it’s, it’s nice to just have those things Where you can be around people, but like, there’s not a work obligation. There’s not a speaking obligation. This isn’t a thing that I have to, you know, be on all the time for that. I can just go and enjoy people with, which, um, you know, it’s how normal people attend conferences, but that’s not how, um, you know, uh, we, we attend conferences. [00:30:51] Christina: So [00:30:53] Upcoming Speaking Engagements [00:30:53] Brett: Speaking of, um, I will be speaking at Macstock, a much smaller conference this year, [00:31:00] um, which has an illustrious panel of previous speakers, including Jay Miller. Um, I, uh, I, if you want to go, it’s July 12th through 14th. And if you use the code TTSCOFF, uh, when you buy your tickets, you get like 30 bucks off. [00:31:19] Brett: Um, which is the, the major cost of MACSOC is the hotel. Um, so if you can get an Airbnb cheap, then go for it, but [00:31:30] Jay: Like that and maybe a rental car. If you’re Like flying in. [00:31:35] Brett: yeah. Or taking a train in, which I’m considering doing. [00:31:39] Sponsor: AeroPress Go Plus [00:31:39] Brett: But yeah, so anyway, uh, quick sponsor read, uh, as usual, I’m very excited about this sponsor, so I will take it. Um, I don’t travel a ton, unlike my co hosts, but when I do, it seems like everywhere I go, the coffee is terrible. And when I’m attending conferences, going on vacations, et cetera, I’ve tried bringing [00:32:00] portable coffee makers or even fancy instant coffee with me, but they never taste great and they don’t travel well. [00:32:06] Brett: The only coffee maker that makes great travel coffee is AeroPress. And now they’ve introduced a complete travel system. Their newest innovation, the AeroPress Go Plus, is the first product that makes great tasting coffee using a brewing system that was designed for life on the go. It’s a travel coffee revelation. [00:32:26] Brett: The AeroPress Go Plus finally allows me to have great coffee while I’m traveling and it does it all in like two minutes. It’s the first time I feel like I can have great coffee wherever I go, no matter what I’m doing. And it’s very cool. Everything fits inside the mug with a folding stirrer and everything. [00:32:43] Brett: All you need is hot water to make an amazing cup of coffee Airbnb. AeroPress combines the best qualities of the most popular coffee brewing methods into one cup. A little French press, a little pour over, and a little espresso all in one cup. It’s [00:33:00] seriously the best cup of classic coffee you’ll ever drink. [00:33:02] Brett: Also, side note, you can get a espresso attachment for it and then use espresso grind coffee and make a pretty good coffee. Espresso with an Aeropress, um, we’ve got an incredible offer for our audience on the Go Plus. Visit aeropress. com slash overtired. That’s A E R O P R E S S dot com slash overtired and use the promo code overtired to save 20 percent off on your order. [00:33:31] Brett: That’s AeroPress. com slash Overtired, and be sure to use the code Overtired at checkout to save 20%. It’s time to say goodbye to crappy coffee and yes to better adventures fueled by better coffee. We thank AeroPress for sponsoring this show. I had this innovation, um, I think, you know how at the end of a sponsor read you have to say the URL like three times and, and spell it out? [00:33:57] Brett: I think it should be done. Like, you should [00:34:00] format it as a spelling bee. And one, one host should say, your word is aeropress. com slash overtired. And I would say aeropress. com slash overtired, A E. And I would spell it out. And I would finish by saying the word again. Problem solved. You’ve said it three times and you spelled it out. [00:34:17] Brett: And it’s kind of funny. [00:34:20] The Art of Coaching in Sports [00:34:20] Brett: Um, so next time maybe, but, um, can I, Can I just say real quick, and I want Jay’s input on this, um, so I’ve been watching Welcome to Wrexham, and like, I enjoy watching soccer, but I’ve never really seen the behind the scenes, the locker room stuff, uh, which you do in Welcome to Wrexham, and it’s made me realize that coaching soccer Is just a matter of telling your players to play harder. [00:34:48] Brett: There’s no strategy. There’s no like formations. It’s just like, you guys got to kick the ball more and, and like that’s coaching. And then you look at sports like baseball. [00:35:00] Where the only real strategy, as far as I can tell, is the pitching and maybe to some extent the batting. Otherwise, everyone’s doing the same thing all the time. [00:35:10] Brett: And then football, you have the strategy of like formations and plays and like, that’s a real, it’s more of a chess game than soccer is to me. Um, what do you like about baseball, Jay? [00:35:24] Jay: Baseball. [00:35:26] The Fascination with Baseball Stats [00:35:26] Jay: The way I explain it to non sports people who are in tech is baseball is an Excel spreadsheet done perfectly. Like when, when you are looking at baseball, like the biggest, the biggest thing, the biggest draw to baseball for the longest time was just the amount of like copious record keeping that ever existed. [00:35:46] Jay: And also shout out to the MLB for incorporating the Negro League stats, which the Negro Leagues were baseball for non white people until about the 1950s, [00:36:00] I believe, um, when they integrated with Jackie Robinson, crossing the color barrier and that. So, um, now that, now that the Negro League stats have been included, there are a lot of major league records that have changed hands. [00:36:15] Jay: And it’s wild because you see, like, the Atlanta great is Hank Aaron, all time home run, like career home runs, [00:36:23] Christina: my parents were at that game. [00:36:25] Jay: Oh, that’s amazing. Uh, that would be like fantastic. Um, I think the thing with baseball and now with the Statcast era since 2009, um, you can track how far the ball has moved both vertically and horizontally on every single pitch. [00:36:47] Jay: The record keepers. Like, record the escape velocity of every single ball that’s hit, as well as the launch angle to predict how far the ball [00:37:00] would have traveled. [00:37:00] Brett: So you like stats. That’s what you like about it. It’s stats. Okay. [00:37:04] Jay: but it’s like, it’s like an absurd amount of stats, like you’ll hear, an announcer will be like, Oh, this batter after May 30th for the past seven seasons, whenever batting against a left handed pitcher with two, like with one eye closed who blinks twice, like has an OPS of like 850. [00:37:26] Jay: And it’s just like, why, why do you have that? Hold on one second. [00:37:31] Brett: The Rexim team, um, incorporated these bras that the whole team wears and, and they track like how far a player moves, when a player moves, where the ball is. And like, they never show us what they do with that data though. Like I don’t, I don’t know. [00:37:48] Christina: mean, it’s probably for training [00:37:50] Brett: Well, sure. I, like, I assume that they’re doing. [00:37:53] Brett: Something strategy wise with that data, like maybe choosing what players to put in first, I [00:38:00] don’t know, but it’s, it’s nothing like baseball. [00:38:03] Christina: No, I mean, that is interesting though, um, what Jay’s talking about with the, all the record keeping with baseball. I hadn’t even thought about that, but I like, I do like statistics. I don’t know if that’s ever been why I like baseball. Uh, certainly like it, it definitely makes, I think it easier to jump in to learning things about it. [00:38:21] Brett: Well, it’s a simpler game than football, [00:38:23] Christina: it is. I mean, football is good with stats too, but football, they haven’t been as good of record keepers to Jay’s point. Um, but it definitely is an easier game and they don’t make this same number of rule changes. Like football will make rule changes like every few years. And you’re like, wait, what is this thing? [00:38:37] Christina: Yeah, because I’m, I’m not a big NFL person, but I did watch this past season because of the Taylor Swift of it all. And, um, I’ll admit it. And, and got like, there were things where I was like, Oh, I didn’t know about this rule. And then I would like learn. I’m like, I’m like, how, how out of this am I? Like, I thought that I, you know, as like a good, you know, raised in the South person who was forced to watch [00:39:00] football all the time. [00:39:00] Christina: Like I figured I knew Most of the rules of the game. And they’re like, no, this is a rule within like the last five years. So I’m like, the [00:39:06] Brett: Give me an, give me an example of like a new rule. [00:39:10] Christina: I’m too fried from from being out for too long, but there’s a certain thing where like if you’re like one if you were a couple of um, I guess um yards away from uh From making the touchdown and you and you were not able to get it on the completion play Like then basically like you’re not going to be able to kind of get the turnover um When, when things, there’s some sort of turnover rule, um, that, that’s happened where, where basically, like, it looks like if it had been a setup and it had been a few years ago, then, um, you could have, basically it’s preventing people from doing certain gamification things, I guess, to, to, to make it easier for them to [00:39:44] Jay: push from happening. [00:39:46] Christina: Essentially, yes. And, and there’s like a rule involved. Yes. And there’s a rule involved in that. I can’t remember what it’s called, but it like was introduced a couple of years ago. And like, I had no idea what it was until it happened in a Chiefs game. And then like the, the, the [00:40:00] very, uh, weirdly, um, not at all autistic Taylor Swift fangirls who’ve learned all the rules of football, uh, within 72 hours of her dating a football player. [00:40:10] Christina: Like, all were on it. No, I mean, genuinely, it was the most amazing thing you’ve ever seen, the most amazing thing you’ve ever seen in your life. Like, people who genuinely, like, don’t know anything about football, like, over the course of a few weeks, like, learning not only, like, the entire history of the game and all the rules, but also, like, all the stats for all the players that, uh, that Travis Kelsey will come into contact with. [00:40:30] Brett: I feel like my understanding of football is pretty rudimentary, and now I’m realizing it’s probably 20 years out of date. [00:40:36] Christina: Yeah, yeah, I can understand the stats appeal of something like baseball because it can make it easy for people to get sucked into it. Like, if you’re new to a team or new to a game, like, you have all the stats from all of history there that you can just kind of, you know, refer to. [00:40:52] Jay: It allows you to easily build like a reference point. And I think the second thing that, to me, that makes baseball so [00:41:00] compelling is that, and this is very much like soccer, um, at least soccer in the rest of the world. [00:41:05] The Journey of Baseball Players [00:41:05] Jay: I don’t think the U. S. has kind of the same setup, but they have like, there’s a farm system. [00:41:10] Jay: So in baseball, you get drafted. Sometimes like when you’re in high school, like you’ll be like 18, you’ll be drafted right out of high school. But that doesn’t mean that you go play in the majors that day. You go play rookie ball, and rookie ball is against all the other 18 year olds and you’re probably making 15, 000 a year. [00:41:28] Christina: that, yeah. [00:41:30] Jay: And, You get a, you’ll get like a big signing bonus, like if you actually go on, but that’ll be like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Or if you’re like drafted in the top five, like I think the top five rounds, you can get up to like a million, I think if it’s like the first or second round. Um, but then they’re most of most professional players don’t ever make it. [00:41:51] Jay: into the major league system because there’s somewhere between Ricky Ball, Hi A, Single A, Double A, [00:42:00] Triple A, and then you go, or sorry, Double A, and then you go to the majors. [00:42:04] Christina: then you go to the majors. Yeah, no, and then you even have people who will make it onto the majors and will be sent back down to, to, you know, the, um, the farm teams. You know, you’ll go back to minor league if you haven’t performed. [00:42:17] Jay: yeah, so contracts are incredibly like, it’s weird because like the, your, the team will basically control your contract for like the first seven years that you’re drafted, but that means that like if you were drafted at 17, You may not get to the majors until you’re like 22, 23. And you’ve been playing in this farm system making nothing. [00:42:37] Jay: And I think that that to me is kind of the thing that I forgive. I do think that some of the contracts like Shohei Ohtani making 600 million and the Dodgers pulling tax magic, like he’s, he’s deferred 97 percent of his contract until like his last few years so that they can like basically bring in a ton of really good people, win a champ, win like [00:43:00] two or three championships really quickly, and then figure out all the. [00:43:03] Jay: Tax implications down the road, but like a lot of players are hoping for that. Meanwhile, they’re working like doing Grubhub wherever they’re at while they’re traveling, playing like single A ball. [00:43:20] The Culture of Baseball and Minor Leagues [00:43:20] Jay: And it’s, it’s kind of cool because I think about that in terms of most careers, you know, especially in DevRel. [00:43:29] Jay: Like I know plenty of DevRel, like folks who are making three, 400, 000 a year. Most of us are not, um, and most people in tech are not. And there is like this level of Hey, where, where am I in the, the farm system of developer advocacy? Like I went from a company like Elastic, which was like a tech company, small tech company, and then all the way up to like Microsoft. [00:43:57] Jay: And then I opted to go to like the smaller [00:44:00] company that paid better. So like almost like going to play in like the Japanese league, um, where like the pay isn’t as good, but the fans absolutely love you and like they will, they celebrate their baseball players. Like they were like military heroes, um, the same for like Korean baseball, the same thing in like the Dominican. [00:44:17] Jay: And like baseball is a culture in a lot of these places where every game is like the most important game. And, and when you go to those games, it feels like that. I mean, like I said, the game that I went to two days ago was probably the best game that I went to, that I’ve been to probably in my entire life. [00:44:33] Jay: And it meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. It was the Braves versus the Tampa Bay Rays. And like, the game meant nothing, but I caught, like, they do, like, when they’re doing their warm ups in between innings, like, they’ll throw the ball out into the stands, and I caught one of the balls. And like, there was like, this little, like, five year old kid that, like, had this saddest look on his face, like, right down the aisle, and I just tossed him the ball. [00:44:56] Christina: Oh, good, [00:44:57] Jay: in that moment, like, you’re making [00:45:00] this kid’s, like, entire week. [00:45:02] Christina: No, you’re more than that, more than that. Like he’s going to remember that he like got a ball from like a Braves game. Like I would have at that age, like, um, I have to admit, I have not been to the new Braves stadium because I have many, many, many, many, many problems with the fact that the Atlanta Braves are no longer in Atlanta, like it pisses me the fuck off. [00:45:18] Christina: Like I’m not, I can’t, I can’t with it, but I have so many fond memories of being a child. Little, little kid, um, at Braves games, and when they were terrible, and then also when they were good, like my mom, like, checked us out of school to go downtown, actual downtown, for real downtown, to, to the Braves parade the first year that they, um, well, they, they lost against Minnesota, they lost to the World Series against, uh, the Twins, but the Braves have been terrible, and, and that 91 was the start of their, like, Assent for the next decade of being, like, the best team in the league. [00:45:52] Christina: Like, the Yankees won more, but, like, the Braves were, like, in the, um, um, National League, anyway, were, like, the best team [00:46:00] for, like, a solid decade. So, I, good on you for giving that kid that ball, because he’s going to remember that. Like, that’s going to be one of those things. Like, that’s so cool. [00:46:09] Brett: I won’t belabor this, but like, what you’re describing about culture and farming and all of this is true for soccer, or football, [00:46:18] Christina: Yeah, well, that’s what Jay [00:46:19] Brett: In, in, in Europe and in like South America, like you have all the teams, all the leagues and there’s relegation and promotion and players, players get called up between leagues based on like, you know, skill and affordability, um, for the, for the lower leagues before you get to like premier league, but yeah, like I, I can understand. [00:46:42] Brett: You have made baseball more interesting to me in the course of this conversation, and maybe, maybe I should be an American and get into baseball. [00:46:50] Christina: Well, just find a team. I mean, like I hadn’t been into it for a long time. And when the, um, when the Cubs won the World Series in [00:47:00] 2016, like I actually, like I watched almost every single post season game, like at a bar that year, like I was like, got really into it. And like, I don’t know, I mean, Jay might have different advice than me, but like, that’s if you’re interested in, this is with any sport I find, cause I’m not a huge sports person, but until I find a narrative, once I find a narrative that I can get into. [00:47:19] Christina: And, and for some people it might be stats, right? That might be the way that you get into it. For me, it’s usually like more like storyline driven. Like, you know, how long has it been since they’ve won? And like, what’s the story behind these players? And like, how much are they put upon? Like I need that sort of thing. [00:47:32] Christina: And, um, like you just, just find a team and like find the story and that, that’s how you can get into it if you want to like that. But that’s the only way I’ve ever gotten into any sport in my life. [00:47:43] Brett: I have an ex girlfriend who, with zero background with basketball, just suddenly found that storyline with like, uh, the, whatever the Minnesota team is. And now she finds herself at, like, games all the time, because she, like, latched onto this storyline and [00:48:00] Like, found out with, like, out of the blue, like, not a girl who’s into sports in general, um, suddenly, like, loving, like, the stadium atmosphere and the crowds and, and the game itself, and that was interesting to me, but yeah. [00:48:18] Jay: I thought I muted my, I like tried to mute my mic before I coughed. Um, I, I would say don’t even start at the major league level, start at the minor leagues, find a minor league team. I mean like the St. Paul Saints, like one, the tickets are going to be like 20 bucks [00:48:37] Christina: yeah. They’d be so [00:48:38] Jay: for like right at the baseline. [00:48:40] Jay: Um, again, you have people who are playing that are like trying to get into the major league. So they’re having like. They’re like playing their butts off. But then also the tickets are, like I said, the tickets are so cheap that you can go and there’s not going to be a ton of people there, but people are still going to be cheering. [00:48:58] Jay: People are still going to be excited. Every [00:49:00] time the ball gets hit, people are going to cheer when amazing catches happen. Like you have to, you almost have to like. Love that moment of a great thing happening. And like, it doesn’t take the balls in the air, the person caught it. Like, that’s amazing. The person dove and like barely caught it. [00:49:17] Jay: Like, Oh, that’s really cool. Um, the game that I went to, someone saved a home run ball while like, like scaling the wall and like catching it off the wall. Like that’s, that’s like an amazing thing that happens. Um, Someone calling the shot, like in the, in the stands, being like, oh, this next pitch is going to, it’s gonna be a home run. [00:49:36] Jay: And watching a ball go, like flying over your head and just being like, well, we called that. Like, you know, like obviously you had zero control in that happening. But like the, the magic that comes from doing these kinds of things and, and getting, and again, like the game coming down to like a single pitch and. [00:49:55] Jay: Like an amazing save that saved the game. Uh, and you know, and then your home [00:50:00] team, your team wins and everybody’s excited, everybody’s cheering. And I think that’s, what’s, that’s, what’s kind of cool. Like, especially in the South where like college sports are probably more popular. Like everybody is divided. [00:50:11] Jay: Like, you know, whether you have UGA folks or Georgia tech folks, like I’m from Knoxville, so I’m a UT person. Like when, when you go to the Braves, like they call it Braves country. And it’s like four states worth of people, people driving in from Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, parts of Florida, Alabama, like they all come in and everybody is cheering for the Braves. [00:50:36] Jay: And you just, you get like consumed by it, but you can get that same feeling on a smaller scale by going to a minor league game and like, Also, if you do go to a major league game, two choices, get nosebleed tickets, go to the bar, hang out at the bar, like you don’t even have to drink, like you can get a mocktail and just like watch from the bar, because it’s probably a better view, and your tickets are like 10 if they’re in like the [00:51:00] nosebleed sections, um, or you I like to get outfield seats because you can see everything happening. [00:51:06] Jay: You can see the entire game as it’s happening and you can like watch the balls flying out and you can start to like get a feel of you see a ball hit and you’re like, ah, that’s too short. Cause like you hear everybody cheer, the ball gets hit and everybody screams. It’s because it’s like coming from in front of them. [00:51:23] Jay: So they can’t. see how far the ball is actually going. But from the outfield, you actually have a perspective of like, if, if it was a good hit or not, and you know, we’ve, we almost sit in the exact same section. Every game we go to, except for the game I went to in Toronto. And then we got like third base, we got seats right above the dugout. [00:51:44] Jay: And like, that was just amazing. Like you can literally like. See how tall players are. Like, there are baseball players that I’m taller than and I’m like, that’s kind of weird But like you expect like athletes to be like these like adonises of people, but like no, it’s like five foot nine [00:52:00] guy like 215 pounds kind of stocky like goes up hits a home run everybody cheers And he takes him 45 seconds to like walk around the bases [00:52:11] Brett: That’s um, it, this is weirdly a sports episode. I think that’s the title. Weirdly a sports [00:52:17] Christina: a sports episode. Yeah. No, I agree with that. No and no and you’re right though about like Well, it depends on the stadium like where you want to sit But yeah, if you’re like a more modern stadium like like the the new brave stadium I assume yeah Like getting you know Like nosebleeds and then like hanging out some of those other areas because they make they’ve put money into making these stadiums really nice So, you know there are there it’s hard to find a bad seat Like if you’re willing to you know You know, just kind of hang out and, um, you know, the, the various viewing areas and stuff that they have. [00:52:46] Christina: I went to a Nationals, Nationals versus Braves game in, um, September, um, last year with a, with a girlfriend of mine. Um, she was cheering for the Nationals. I was cheering for the Braves, the Braves won. So I felt like pretty good about that. Um, and, and likewise, [00:53:00] like you can just, I don’t know, base, there’s something really fun about a, about, about a baseball game. [00:53:04] Christina: Um, and that I assume is, is similar to like European soccer games. Um, You know, where, yeah, you just, you have a lot of people who are just really committed to the, to the team. It’s, yeah. [00:53:17] Brett: All right. Well, thank you both of you for enlightening me. Um, I’ve always, I’ve always, Had a peripheral interest in sports, more about what you’re talking about, Jay. Like the idea of like being in the crowd and seeing something amazing happen. Uh, which is part of why I’ve always enjoyed soccer is it’s so fucking long between goals when it happens, the eruption of the crowd, even, even if they get in the box, there’s the cross and they miss the eruption of getting close. [00:53:49] Brett: It’s almost like, um, Tantric sex, where like, you finally, you finally get there, um, or you edge for a whole game and it’s a draw, [00:54:00] but, um, anyway, should we, should we Graptitude before we close out here? [00:54:05] Christina: Yeah, let’s gratitude. [00:54:06] Brett: Jay, I know you have something to say. [00:54:10] grAPPtitude: Exploring Live Streaming Tools [00:54:10] Jay: shout out to So this is an app that I used they’ve sponsored Terpstra I don’t know if they’ve sponsored Overtired or not, um, but it’s Ecamm live. Um, I have, I’ve been like teasing the idea of doing regular streams and it’s, it’s not even like because I want to be a streamer. It’s just because whenever I need to actually do like a coding project, um, If I have the camera watching me, I will sit down and do it versus like getting distracted and walking around and like not doing what I’m supposed to do. [00:54:45] Jay: Um, so I like, streamed a few times and in, even in like, not like non streaming situations, like if I’m doing, I do a meetup every Friday with black Python devs, and it’s more of just like a [00:55:00] check in with folks, but it’s so easy for someone to like, ask a question. And they’d be like, hey, I have a career question. [00:55:07] Jay: I’m like, okay, you know what? I’m going to record this really quick. So then I just like open Ecamm live. And it has like a really simple setup to where if I want a certain window, I just drag that window in and then like, boom, now that window is the main focus. My camera’s down at the bottom. I have like 8, 000 cameras so I can quickly switch between which camera I want pointed. [00:55:27] Jay: But they also added, uh, they just recently added like zoom support. So like you can do a lot of the, you know, super dynamic stuff within zoom. [00:55:37] Brett: Oh, that’s [00:55:38] Jay: But it also, like, if you’re live streaming a Zoom call, like, you know, some people do that, some meetups do that, you can, it integrates the Zoom chat with the actual chat of your, like, live stream. [00:55:52] Jay: So, like, people who are watching on YouTube have just as much, like, integration with the folks who are, like, in the Zoom [00:56:00] call. And as, like, messages that are public for everyone, like, those will, those can get pushed up. And you can even, like, Pull them up on the screen. Oh, this person asked this question and then have it like load up on your screen and everything. [00:56:11] Jay: So like, if it, if you’re familiar with StreamYard, it’s very similar to what StreamYard does, but it’s like on your system, so it can integrate with the application and the tools that you have on your system. And in my opinion, it’s. It’s just easier to use than StreamYard, but I definitely would look at it from like the I’m going to record a video or I’m going to do a live stream, uh, type thing. [00:56:34] Christina: Yeah, [00:56:35] Brett: be mistaken, but I think that’s who Doc Rock is [00:56:38] Jay: That is who DocRock [00:56:39] Christina: It is who Doc rocks with. Um, yeah, they do great stuff. It’s, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s very similar to OBS, frankly, but it’s much better optimized for a Mac. So like if you, if you wanted to do OBS type of stuff, but like, because it’s Mac support is, I mean, it’s not primarily Mac application. Like I think that the, and I actually give money to the OBS developer every month because I [00:56:57] Brett: Yeah. I love OBS, but I’ve never [00:57:00] tried Ecamm. [00:57:00] Christina: Yeah. It’s good. They’ve had it for a long time, um, and, and they’ve kind of adopted, uh, adapted it over the years, but it, it, it’s good. I haven’t used it as much as, as Jay has, but, um, it’s, it’s good. It’s good stuff for sure. [00:57:13] Jay: Yeah. I think if you, if you’ve tempted, if you’re tempted to like try OBS and you like get to those screens and you’re like, I don’t know what to do now, or like, I don’t want to spend a bunch of time configuring them. And then you like go to StreamYard and you’re like, StreamYard’s kind of cool too, but I like a [00:57:29] Christina: Very cool. But yeah. Mm hmm. [00:57:31] Jay: Like Ecamm is that like perfect balance between not giving you every single configurable option like OBS does, but giving you a lot of them, but then also having some of the really nice features of like allowing guests to come in on a call if you pay for like a certain amount. Like that’s probably the one downside is that it is like a subscription based product, but. [00:57:51] Jay: I mean, I think, I think it was like a hundred dollars for the year. Um, and I get all the features except for the ability to bring [00:58:00] like people into the call, which now with zoom integration, like I don’t even need that, like I can just bring them into a zoom call and then do all the same things anyway. Um, but yeah, it’s, it’s like that perfect balance of more, more flexibility than StreamYard, but easier to use than like OBS on the Mac. [00:58:20] Jay: And all the other OBS forks just don’t work on Macs. Like, they never work on Macs. It’s always embarrassing how bad they are on a Mac. [00:58:29] Brett: All right. Cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Christina, do you have one you want to talk [00:58:34] Christina: I do. [00:58:35] grAPPtitude: Managing Development Environments [00:58:35] Christina: So, okay, I’ve been having to do some demo projects for, um, a thing that I’m going to have to do in, um, uh, eight days, and, um, I’ve been having to kind of, like, mess with my, like, uh, version, um, manager setup for a bunch of different tools, so things like Node, Python, stuff like that, and I’ve used various Node managers over the years. [00:58:55] Christina: Volta was what I was using for a long time as kind of, like, my in VM, um, Um, uh, [00:59:00] alternative, um, just as an easy way to quickly install or pin a version of Node or NPM, um, globally or per project. But, um, I needed something that could also work with Python. And I know that there are, and Jay can correct me about like all the many different like Python version manager things that are out there. [00:59:19] Christina: Um, but I was struggling and so I decided to try out an app called MISE, um, or I think it’s pronounced MISE, M I S E. It’s similar to ASDF, which is also kind of like [00:59:30] Brett: Yeah, I love ASDF. [00:59:31] Christina: MyEyes is like that and it’s compatible with, with ASDF plugins, but I like it a little bit better. Um, and so it, it has plugins. It’ll work with ASDF plugins out of the box, but it has support for more types of things too. [00:59:45] Christina: And I, and I just kind of like how it’s laid out a little bit more so, um, um, oh, and it’s Mee’s. I’m sorry. So [00:59:52] Jay: Yeah, it’s like mise en place, [00:59:54] Christina: Mise en place. Yes. Mise en [00:59:56] Jay: everything. Like, it’s a cooking thing where you get all your ingredients [01:00:00] out. [01:00:00] Christina: No, that makes sense. And because mise en scene, which is, which is the French cinema term. Um, okay. So mise, uh, apologies for saying that wrong, is, is my pick. [01:00:10] Christina: Um, yeah, like you can use like ASDF, like on the backend, if you want to use ASDF plugins, but it also works with, with, um, with Rust, uh, for Cargo and Go and, and NPM and things like that. And, um, it also works with, um, um, Uh, uh, uh, direct nev, uh, for, for, um, Python stuff. So, um, if you’ve, if you’ve struggled with managing, you know, versions for your dev tools, um, and, and you haven’t jumped on the A SDF bandwagon, or even if you have, if you’re interested in looking at something else, me is, uh, is my pick. [01:00:47] Brett: I’m watching the 30 second demo. I like the, uh, the very natural language subcommands it uses. [01:00:54] Christina: Yeah. I like that a lot too. Yeah. [01:00:55] Brett: I, yeah, I’m going to try this out, especially if it works with all my ASDF [01:01:00] plugins. [01:01:00] Christina: yeah. I mean, the developer is very, very active. Like, he’s, he’s great. And, um, like, that was one of the other things that kind of, like, Made me feel good about it because some of these tools, like, will start out really strong, like Volta is a great example, and then just kind of die, and then they don’t have any, you know, updates, and like, that can be okay, but like, then you’re like, okay, but I want Bund support, or I want Deno support, or whatever, and like, they never, people make patches, but they never get them, and so, um, I, I really, uh, I’m appreciative of, of this. [01:01:29] Christina: So, so Mise is my [01:01:30] Brett: Nice. I am, I am waffling on my pick. Um, I was going to talk about Affinity Tools, but I’m so concerned they’re going subscription after a recent acquisition. Um, [01:01:44] Christina: they say. Yeah. I don’t believe them. [01:01:46] Brett: Yeah. And then I was going to talk about my tool. How’s it probably repeated. Um, because it has been my most used, like I can go into any of my [01:02:00] project directories of which I have easily a hundred and I can just type, how’s it minus R deploy and no matter what the project is, whether it’s an Xcode project or a Ruby gem or a Python app that I’m working on, like it will Build and deploy that project. [01:02:19] grAPPtitude: Launch Control for Mac [01:02:19] Brett: And I don’t have to remember commands for everything, but what I actually want to talk about is this app called Launch Control for Mac, um, that gives you a very good graphical user interface. AKA GUI, um, to work with LaunchD on your Mac. Um, and if you’re not familiar with LaunchD, think about it as Cron for like sane people. [01:02:48] Brett: Um, and it offers all kinds of, it’s all done in a plist and you have all kinds of keys for like repeating a task. How often it repeats, whether it repeats after a [01:03:00] shutdown, like if it catches up after a system shutdown, um. You can do calendar timing, you can do interval timing, um, you can do, uh, you, you have, um, uh, process helpers so you can run as root. [01:03:15] Brett: And all of this in Launch Control is just drag and drop and you can build these LaunchD files and it gives you a, an overview of everything you have in your global daemons, daemons, uh, your, like, user, uh, specific. LaunchD Tasks. It’s awesome and it’s like I think nine bucks still and it is still being updated after years of existing and I, [01:03:44] Christina: now, but still, but, but, but that’s still a great, that’s still a great price. But yeah, but, but, but it’s, oh no, sorry. It might be less than that. It is, um, 18 was for Ammonite. For Launch Control 2, it is 21 for the personal license and then 15 if you needed to update, [01:04:00] but yeah, [01:04:00] Brett: I don’t know if Lingen, Lingen was kind of what I used before Launch Control and I think Lingen still exists, but it hasn’t been up active for a while. I don’t think. Um, but Launch Control is, I just got an update yesterday. It’s still It’s still improving. Love it. [01:04:18] Christina: Fantastic. [01:04:20] Jay: I [01:04:20] Brett: All right. [01:04:21] Concluding Thoughts and Future Topics [01:04:21] Brett: Well, thanks for the sports episode. [01:04:23] Brett: We were going to talk about Apple and AI. We were going to talk about, I was going to talk about record, uh, like Windows recording, everything you do and how I actually, Don’t, I don’t hate the idea of local recordings. There’s apps called Rewind and Limitless from the same dev that actually intrigue me, like they can give you, they can listen to your, your Zoom meetings and give you like meeting notes automatically. [01:04:51] Brett: And they even have like a dongle [01:04:53] Christina: Yeah, they have a pin now. Yeah, [01:04:54] Brett: record your conversations with other people and get like AI summaries. [01:05:00] And it’s intriguing to me. Um, I have, I don’t talk about confidential information and like the idea. Anyway, that’s, we’ll do that next [01:05:09] Christina: You do it and yeah, we’ll do it. We’ll do it next week because, uh, yeah, because they, they delayed recall. So, you know, they listened to the, to the massive shitstorm. Um, yeah, like they’re like, like, long story short, just my personal opinion, not representative of, uh, Microsoft or a Microsoft subsidiary. I think that this was This was a, an own goal, this was a failure of marketing and of, uh, of messaging, not, not a product, uh, or design failure to be completely honest. [01:05:37] Christina: I think this is, this is completely a, a you’ve told this story and what this is doing the wrong way thing. [01:05:42] Jay: This is, this is the, the kickstart of the, like, Metro Boomin future, we don’t trust you, like, rap beef to Drake and Microsoft is Drake in this instance. [01:05:54] Christina: Absolutely. And, and like, you don’t want to be Drake right now, right? Like, like, that, that’s, that’s like, that’s like a hard place to [01:06:00] be because like, everybody wanted to be Drake and now you’re like, oh no, oh no, what’s coming, right? Like, you, it, please, please do what Drake didn’t do and shut the fuck up because you don’t need like the, the, the, the three Kendrick, you know, um, uh, tracks in one weekend coming out. [01:06:16] Christina: Like, you really don’t need that. [01:06:19] Brett: All right. Well, thanks for being here, Jay. [01:06:23] Jay: Absolutely. Anytime. [01:06:25] Christina: We love you. Get some sleep, guys. [01:06:27] Jay: Get some sleep.

Dive into a reunion record with Geeky Giggles, Merch Madness, and mental health updates from Brett, Christina, and Jeff. From hotel misadventures to project management chaos, they discuss Carbon Copy Cloner 7, Taco Fancy GitHub, and tech tips. Get ready for an ultimate guide to tech, tacos, thongs, and more!

Topics covered in the podcast include outdoor experiences with mosquitoes and birds, weight loss drugs, mental health updates, challenges with Spotify, managing subscriptions and permissions, new technologies like Kino and Fish Shell, and entertainment preferences. The hosts also discuss TV show recommendations, the therapeutic power of stories, frustrations with GitHub repo creation, Spotify's Car Thing controversy, and celebrate useful tools and apps.

Check our our new Merch! Brett and Christina discuss their recent experiences and upcoming busy schedules. Brett talks about his vacation in Asheville and Christina talks about her involvement in Microsoft Build. They also discuss the challenges of managing work and personal devices, as well as the benefits of using passkeys for authentication. Google’s vision of AI search and its potential impact on web traffic and advertising revenue. The introduction of Text Blaze as an alternative to TextExpander for text expansion. They also talk about their experiences with different web browsers, including Arc, and Christina shares her recent purchase of a new Windows laptop. They briefly mention the Rabbit R1 device and its sketchy nature. Sponsors AeroPress It’s time to ditch the drive-thru, toss the french press, and say yes to better mornings fueled by better coffee with AeroPress. Visit aeropress.com/OVERTIRED and be sure to use code OVERTIRED at checkout to save 20%. ExpressVPN Stop handing over your personal data to ISPs and other tech giants who mine your activity and sell off your information. Protect yourself with the VPN we trust to keep us private online: visit ExpressVPN.com/overtired for three extra months free. Show Links Super Monsters ate My Condo Tiny Home in Asheville Google unleashes AI in search, raising hopes for better results and fears about less web traffic Text Blaze Arc web browser for Windows How we’re building the Arc Browser Windows app with Swift Christina’s new laptop Keychron Switch Tester 100 Max Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Sketch as F@ck [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Lately Sporadic Overtired podcast. Um, Jeff is out this week. I’m Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren. Christina, how [00:00:14] Brett: are you? [00:00:14] Christina: I’m pretty good. I’m tired because, and I’m, and I’m just getting started this weekend. It’s going to be so, so busy, but no, I’m tired because I’ve, I’ve had kind of like a crazy last week or so. And it’s, it’s, it’s just going to get busier. I’m, I’m, I’m good. How about you? Uh, [00:00:31] Brett: Um, I also am tired. Um, I had, I ran out of My sleep meds one night and then I got them and slept really well the next night. And then last night, even with the sleep meds, uh, after 2 a. m. I was up like every half an hour. So I’m dragging and I also had a crazy work week. Um, crazy for me, probably not as crazy as yours, but [00:00:57] Mental Health Corner [00:00:57] Brett: I, uh, I did this [00:01:00] project before I left on vacation. [00:01:01] Brett: I went, I went to Asheville. I don’t, we haven’t talked since then, but have we? Um, I, uh, I, I worked really hard to get two projects in the can before I left on vacation and then made the mistake of checking Slack while on vacation and. and found out that both of the projects I had completed required revisions for asinine reasons um that I started to argue in slack halfway through my vacation and then I was like dude you’re totally harshing my buzz here so I’m just gonna I’ll talk to you when I get home. [00:01:42] Brett: Um, and then I saw Victor and Victor kind of talked me down and, and I got back and like, it was no big deal, but then yesterday I get this frantic Slack message from someone I had never heard of who wanted to know who [00:02:00] greenlit the. Demo video that I published because that entire project apparently was confidential and like I worked directly with the team and the team didn’t know their project was confidential. [00:02:15] Brett: They were as shocked as I was so there is some kind of failure of communication [00:02:19] Brett: here. [00:02:19] Christina: And a failure I should add that is in no way yours. [00:02:22] Brett: Huh, I just followed [00:02:23] Brett: orders. They [00:02:24] Christina: what I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying. You had, you, you had zero. [00:02:29] Brett: So I got, I got together all the stakeholders. I said, you guys sort this out. It’s Friday afternoon. I’m out. Have fun. [00:02:37] Christina: Yeah, no, sounds fair, sounds fair. Um, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll talk more in depth, um, uh, off mic, but, um, I’m actually going to be talking to a couple of Oracle people at, uh, Microsoft Build, but I don’t know if you know any of them or not, but [00:02:53] Brett: We’ll, we’ll think, we’ll find [00:02:55] Christina: we’ll [00:02:55] Christina: find out. You probably don’t cause it’s a big company, but yeah. [00:02:59] Brett: yeah, [00:03:00] no, I, I meet new people every day. Um, so, uh, [00:03:05] Mental Health Corner [00:03:05] Brett: I think we’ve kind of started the mental health [00:03:07] Christina: yeah, I was gonna say that. That sounds, that sounds good. So, so how, but, but let’s, uh, let’s, let’s go more into that. You can take it away. Like how, how is Asheville? How’s life? [00:03:16] Brett: yeah, Asheville was awesome. Um, it was my second time going there and I loved it so much the first time I had to go back again. Um, have you ever [00:03:26] Brett: been? [00:03:27] Christina: I never have. I, um, I, I’ve, uh, but I’ve heard good things and I’ve heard it’s like a, a good place. [00:03:34] Brett: It’s a, it’s, there’s Raleigh and there’s Asheville, the only blue spots in what is otherwise a [00:03:41] Brett: deep red [00:03:42] Christina: Yeah. I’ve been to [00:03:43] Brett: Um, and yeah, Asheville is like, it’s kind of hippie meets yuppie meets, Like, just your average, like, West Coast liberal kind of sensibility, and, [00:04:00] um, and like, you’ll get into an Uber, and they’ll ask you where you’re from, and if, if they, if you’re from, like, a blue state, they’ll be like, oh, you’ll feel right at home here, and half the people there have relocated, so, like, my accent didn’t stick out. [00:04:14] Brett: Um, no one really questioned whether I was from Asheville or not. I had to tell them I was just visiting. Um, but yeah, we did shopping. We, we hiked, we swam in waterfalls. We, uh, we ate a lot of really good food. They have a ton of like vegan gluten free food for us. And there’s this restaurant called Plant that it’s a vegan restaurant. [00:04:40] Brett: And honestly. It’s the best vegan food I’ve ever had. I would take any meat eater there and just be like, enjoy. And it was half price wine, bottle of wine night. So we got a bottle of red wine, drank half of it with dinner. And then they sent us home. [00:05:00] They corked the bottle and gave us. I mean, we paid for it, but we got a pint of vegan ice cream, went back to our tiny home, which was awesome. [00:05:09] Brett: We Airbnb’d a tiny home, and we sat and had a pint of ice cream and half a bottle of wine before going to bed in probably the most comfortable bed I’ve ever slept in. So overall, the vacation was pretty [00:05:23] Brett: magical. Um, And then I came home and went right back into work. Um, which I don’t know. I was pretty refreshed. [00:05:32] Brett: It’s like the first vacation in a long time that actually felt refreshing instead of stressful. Um, even though we drove from Minnesota to North Carolina, um, it, and I did most of the driving, but I, I’m a trooper. I can drive for hours. I don’t want to, but I can. Anyhow, that’s kind of, that’s, that’s my update. [00:05:56] Christina: That’s good. That’s good. Well, I’m glad you had a good time. I wanna hear more about this [00:06:00] tiny home shit. [00:06:01] Brett: Oh yeah, it was in this guy’s backyard. They built a tiny home that it had running water, it had electricity, it had wi fi, um, it had like a great shower with great water pressure, super comfortable bed, but the whole thing was maybe like 80 square feet. It had a decent sized refrigerator and a microwave and a toaster oven and a big sink and like just soup, all brand new, like all like recently built, everything was in top notch shape and. [00:06:41] Brett: I sent a link out. I posted pictures of it and people who visit Asheville were like, I need to know where this is so I can link it in the show notes too. If you’re headed to Asheville, I highly recommend. And it was 80 a night. [00:06:55] Christina: Damn. [00:06:56] Brett: know, you can’t, it’ll only hold two [00:06:58] Brett: people, but 80 bucks a [00:07:00] night. Yeah, that’s like a, that’s like motel [00:07:02] Brett: prices. [00:07:03] Christina: going to say, I don’t, I don’t think I’ve ever in my life ever [00:07:08] Brett: it was, it was way under priced for what it was. I would have, I would have expected it to be more like 250 [00:07:15] Brett: and, [00:07:16] Christina: I would expect that too. Yeah. [00:07:18] Brett: completely, completely private. We met the owner one time in passing in his backyard, but otherwise it’s like keypad entry, never see anybody, completely secluded in like the backyard is a forest and it’s, it’s like surrounded by trees and it was so cool. [00:07:38] Brett: It was awesome. [00:07:39] Christina: That’s [00:07:40] Brett: It’s worth going to Asheville just to stay in this tiny home. [00:07:43] Christina: Yeah. No, the tiny home movement is so interesting to me. Um, uh, you know what I mean? Like it, it, it doesn’t, um, negate like a lot, many of the, the real problems, which are like, okay, well, where do you get space for a tiny home? But, uh, you know, like, like where, where do you get land for those things? But, [00:07:58] Brett: Yeah, [00:08:00] no, but yeah, I love the, uh, I love the idea of a maximal, maximally livable space in a minimal area. Um, and that is like, I, I love it as an engineering problem. I don’t want to live in one like [00:08:16] Brett: permanently, but like for a couple of nights, it’s awesome. [00:08:21] Christina: That’s, that’s [00:08:22] Brett: So how are you? [00:08:23] Christina: pretty good. I, like I said, I’ve been busy. So last week, so Microsoft Build, uh, is, is happening, um, it’ll be Tuesday, the 21st, uh, the 22nd, the 23rd, so Wednesday, the 22nd, uh, or, um, and Thursday, the 23rd. And so, um, I’m, I’m involved in that this year. I’m not like as heavily involved as some years, but I am one of the hosts and so I’m still doing. [00:08:47] Christina: by not heavily involved. I think that only means I’m doing like, like 15 interviews instead of like 30. So, um, so stuff that’s been coming in hot and then, you know, there’ve been like parts of my day job and stuff too. And then I went out of [00:09:00] town beforehand to Atlanta for Mother’s Day and, um, I, uh, went to a concert in Portland this week, which in retrospect, not the best decision. [00:09:12] Christina: Like, if I could do it all over again, as much as great of a time as I had at the concert and as great as it was to be in Portland for like a day and a half, I, I would not. have, I’ve gotten out of town, um, before all of this, just because I had a ton of meetings. I was like, I like, I like took a, I took a meeting like on an airplane, like as we were boarding, right? [00:09:32] Christina: Like it was one of those things I was, they were like, Oh, you have to go. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. I’m going to be completely that asshole who, you know, sits in the front of the plane and is on the phone, um, while everyone is, is boarding. But, um, it was a small commuter jet cause it was for like an hour long flight. [00:09:47] Christina: So, but it was, it was a really busy week and then the weekend is going to be really busy. Like, we’re recording this on a Saturday. I have an appointment this afternoon to get my eyebrows waxed and then. My call time tomorrow is like 8 a. m. for [00:10:00] rehearsals and prerecords. And then similar on Monday. [00:10:03] Christina: So it’s like eight to six Sunday and Monday. And then my call time Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is 6 a. m. And it will go until like 6 p. m. So, yeah, so it’s, it’s, it’s going to be like a long week. So, um, [00:10:15] Brett: usually, I usually say it sarcastically, but that is why you get paid the big bucks. [00:10:22] Christina: I don’t know [00:10:22] Brett: usually if I say that to someone, it’s with this knowing smile, like, I know they don’t get paid the big bucks, but yeah, you deserve what you [00:10:31] Christina: I mean, I, I get the moderately by tech standards bucks, right? Yeah. Um, no, this is definitely one of those weeks where I’m like, yeah, I’m, I’m doing a lot. Like yesterday I was trying to manage five million different things and I was like, I’m very sorry. I was like, things are coming in hot on this. And then I was, people were like, oh yeah, well, what are you doing with build? [00:10:49] Christina: And then I was like telling them a little bit of my schedule, just like I did with you. I’m like, yeah. So I’ve got like two, you know, all day, like pre record and rehearsal days. And then like my call time’s at 6am for three days and it’s, you know, going to be there [00:11:00] All day and all night. Oh, and I’ll have community events at night too. [00:11:02] Christina: Like, let’s not forget about that. Um, and they were like, and I haven’t even told that to people. I’ve just figured that the 6am call time was enough to kind of get it. But, um, no, I’ll have, I’ll have evening events as well. So yes, this is one of those weeks where I’m like, [00:11:19] Brett: are, how are you gonna take care of yourself? Like, what do you do to make it possible to get through that many long [00:11:26] Brett: days? [00:11:27] Christina: I mean, you just do it. And then you collapse after. [00:11:31] Brett: in the [00:11:31] Brett: evenings? [00:11:32] Christina: No, usually not. Usually not. [00:11:34] Brett: I wouldn’t either. I wouldn’t either. [00:11:37] Christina: If I were 10 years younger, if I were actually 29, sure. Um, but, but no, um, at my actual age, um, no, I don’t drink. Just because you can’t. Like, at least I can’t. Like, yeah. [00:11:54] Brett: when you have to get up at 6 in the morning [00:11:56] Brett: and be [00:11:56] Christina: And beyond. [00:11:57] Brett: like you just have to show up. Like, you gotta [00:11:59] Brett: [00:12:00] be [00:12:00] Christina: no, you gotta be on, you have to look good, right? Like, yeah, you’ve got to be, you know, energetic and doing all those things and yeah. [00:12:07] Managing work and personal devices [00:12:07] Christina: The only thing I’m, I’m, I’m weirdly anxious about at this point, this matters to no one, um, but I’ll just say it anyway cause fuck it. Um, I refuse to do what is required on my personal cell phone to be able to have access to Microsoft. Like chat stuff, [00:12:28] Brett: Same, but with [00:12:28] Brett: Oracle for [00:12:29] Christina: right? Because GitHub doesn’t make us put any sort of MDM on our, on our phones. [00:12:34] Christina: And so I have no problem getting Slack or email or Zoom or basically anything. Um, and, um, like I could, I can use a YubiKey if I need to for certain things, but now actually we can use with Okta, um, as, Basically a YubiKey. So, like, I, there’s nothing, I mean, there are like a handful of resources that require that I actually be on like a GitHub owned and operated machine, and in that case I wouldn’t be able to [00:13:00] access it on a phone anyway because we don’t have phone management stuff. [00:13:03] Christina: Um, but Microsoft is different. And, When I worked at Microsoft, it was one thing for me to like put the Intune stuff on my phone because that way I could access email and teams and whatnot and and it was a trade off and for the most part for it was it was fine because What they have access to and what they can see at least on the iPhone is less than what they can on Android and like I Didn’t care, but then they started putting this antivirus Windows Defender stuff on [00:13:28] Brett: yep. [00:13:30] Christina: And that impacts your battery life in a not insignificant way. [00:13:35] Christina: And the thing is, is that if it’s part of my job and part of my day thing, fine, I can, I can consider the trade off. Right. Um, but this isn’t part of my job and my day to day, like I don’t have to use their tools except for like one or two weeks out of the year for things like this, because this is like. [00:14:00] I know that they are going to be sending updates to Teams that I’m not going to be able to see. [00:14:04] Christina: And Like, as much as I would like for them to just be like, just text me, I, I also am recognizing that that’s probably not going to be a thing. And so I’m gonna, I’m, I’m, there’s, I’m like half considering in tuning my phone for the week only because I broke my phone last Saturday when I was getting my haircut and, or maybe it was last Friday. [00:14:30] Christina: And, um, I had to order like an express replacement and it arrived and I, it arrived on Wednesday, so I got it Thursday. So I have like 10 days to send it back to them. So, um, What I’m thinking is, is that I can take my broken phone, and what broke by the way was just like the back glass and the front glass a little bit, and it wasn’t that bad, but I didn’t have time to go to an Apple store and pay them 50 to deal with it, so I was just like, did the, pay them 100 and they’ll mail me a, [00:15:00] a, a refurb but new phone thing. This is the second time now that I’ve broken my iPhone 15 Pro Max, um, since, um, I got it in September. So great for me. Um, you would think, Christina, just buy a case. Well, I did buy a case, but I hated the case. And so here we are. Anyway, I’m thinking, I don’t know what your thoughts are on this. I’m like, maybe I just in tune my phone that I know I’m going to wipe anyway. And then just set up the new phone as a new phone and don’t bother with any of the, you know, like transfer over. [00:15:31] Brett: I haven’t, so Oracle has MDM stuff and they will pay for my phone. If I, you know, run it as if it’s Oracle property, like they would, they would pay my cell bill and everything. Um, And if, if I saw a need for it, I would take them up on that and just have a separate number for work. Um, but like I can run Outlook on my phone, no problem getting my [00:16:00] emails. [00:16:00] Brett: I can use Zoom with SSO on my phone, no problem getting meetings. And my, uh, like Apple calendar works with their. Office 365, uh, implementation of scheduling software, so I have no reason to let Oracle own my phone. Um, does Microsoft, will they pay, will they, can you just get a second phone for this two [00:16:28] Brett: weeks out of the [00:16:29] Christina: No, unfortunately that’s the thing, right? Like, so GitHub will pay as part of our, some of our benefits. Like I can have my, my. My phone bill, um, um, expensed, um, and, and even my cell phone is part of that, right? So like, if you do like the pay, like the monthly, you know, fee, like $50 a month or whatever, like the, you know, every two years or whatever, um, or if you are part of the Apple upgrade program, you know, like, every year you can get a new phone, right? [00:16:52] Christina: Like I can expense that, Which is great, but that’s like a benefit, but I could also use that for money for other things too. So I guess [00:17:00] technically I could get a second phone and just have that paid for as my get up phone and then have my personal phone that I’m not, you know, expensing anything on and then use that for the two months out of the year or two weeks out of the year. [00:17:10] Christina: I guess I could do that. I do have an iPhone 12, um, Pro Max, um, that’s still around. My thought has actually been over for a while has been to use that as like my, you know, Microsoft Teams phone if I need it, um, and, and also use it as a, uh, webcam replacement, um, instead of using the, the studio display’s, uh, garbage fucking camera, which I still have people on Mastodon and Threads, but mostly Threads, who will, like, argue with me about that, and I’m like, if you’re happy with a really shitty camera that’s, like, worse than, like, an iPad camera, in a 600 display, that’s great. [00:17:48] Christina: I’m happy for you. However, most of us who spend 1, 600 on a display are also the sorts of assholes who will then spend more money on a better webcam because the [00:18:00] webcam that comes with it is hot garbage. And if, and if you want to be, live in delusional town and think that it’s not happy for you. Love that for you. [00:18:08] Christina: However, most of us who are, like, dumb enough to spend this much money on this type of display because it’s the only display we can use because it is a waste of, it is overpriced and it is not worth the money, except it is. Like, there’s no alternative. So, I just spend more. Anyway, um, I’ve been thinking about using that, that, um, phone also as like a webcam. [00:18:30] Hanging on to old tech… because it works [00:18:30] Christina: you know, cause it’s now, you know, three years out of date and it’ll be almost four years out of date, but it’s still, it’s still perfectly, you know, serviceable, so I don’t [00:18:38] Brett: Can I admit, I, I have never upgraded from my 12 Pro Max. Um, it is, I’ve, I’ve never broken it. It has never been slow. The battery life three years, four years later is still solid. Like I, like most of the iPhones I’ve had after a few years, like the battery life, you have to start charging it twice a day.[00:19:00] [00:19:00] Brett: You have to like charge midday and that sucks. I, that’s why I usually upgrade. Um, This one, I, it, it runs for a day and a half about before it needs a charge, um, unless I’m playing a lot of Super Monsters Date My Condo, which I think I mentioned last time, but has just come out for Apple Arcade and I’m way back into it. [00:19:22] Brett: But anyway, yeah, I still run a 12 Pro Max and I, I think every once in a while about going for a 15. I just, I love this phone. It’s I’ve never cracked it. There’s no chips on it. There’s, I just don’t have a reason to. My, my case is smashed to hell. Um, I’m going to hold this up so you can see, but like, the case is falling apart from all the times it’s protected my phone. [00:19:50] Brett: It’s not in great shape. I should get a new case if I’m not going to get a new phone. And that’s what happens is I’m like, I should order a new case. Then I’m like, I should just go down to the Verizon store and [00:20:00] just finally get a new phone and then get a case for that. But. I have not. [00:20:04] 1Password and Passkeys [00:20:04] Brett: Um, couple questions, first of all, how much do you love passkeys? [00:20:10] Christina: love Pasceys. They’re the greatest thing in the whole world. [00:20:13] Brett: Like, when I, I used to be, cause I do a lot of, I do the GitHub, um, organization management for my, my organization. Um, for the entire DevRel, uh, part of Oracle. And. I used to have to, every time you, you can be logged in, but if you want to change the collaborators on a repo, it’ll ask you to do a 2FA login again. [00:20:43] Brett: And it used to always be. Either I had to pull up the GitHub mobile app and punch in the two digit code, or I’d have to get a text message and punch in a 2FA code. And on my Mac, that’s a pain in the ass. Um, and now I have [00:21:00] passkeys and I can always just click the use passkey and then unlock one password, click a button, done. [00:21:05] Brett: It’s so much faster. I use it for Google, GitHub, um, My, uh, health, my health insurance com lets me use passkeys. Yeah, I, I think it’s the [00:21:16] Brett: future. It’s [00:21:17] Christina: No, it’s so great. And the way that 1Password does it is especially really nice because, you know, like, um, nothing against like, like the other implementations, but like, it is sort of annoying on a desktop to have to hold up your phone and scan a QR code and then authenticate your face. [00:21:35] Brett: 1Password can actually do a screen capture. [00:21:38] Brett: Yeah, [00:21:39] Christina: so, so what, [00:21:39] Brett: no that’s [00:21:40] Christina: so with what one Password is doing is that when you have a pass key that’s saved in one password, if you’re authenticated through one password, then the, then the pass key authenticates in your browser. [00:21:49] Christina: So I’m not having to touch a UB key. I’m not having to authenticate with my, you know, face ID with a QR code and whatnot. So, for where it becomes really useful for me, and I think this would be useful [00:22:00] for you as well, like you can use a keyboard that has a fingerprint sensor with your, um, um, Mac Studio, but I don’t know if you. [00:22:07] Christina: Do, because we’re going to talk about keyboards in a little bit, right? But you probably don’t, right? But like I have an Intel iMac and I, it has a T2 display or T2 chip. So it, it is like secure in that respect, but Apple refuses to let you use, um, biometric login with it. Like I can’t use one of their biometric keyboards on it, even though it’s secure enough, because. [00:22:31] Brett: On [00:22:31] Brett: 1Password. [00:22:33] Christina: no, with, with, with, with macOS. So um, this is why 1Password is great. So like, one of the, like, which means like, cause, cause for instance, you could use pass keys on like Safari or, or some other things like using um, fingerprint sensor, um, without having to, to authenticate, like without having to do the, hold up your phone and, and scan the QR code and, and then [00:23:00] face authent, uh, face authenticate. [00:23:00] Christina: Authenticate thing. Um, but what I like about 1Password is that, um, and, and so this is one of the reasons why I have like a YubiKey like hanging off the back of my iMac, uh, which, no, it’s not secure. No one’s in my house. Fuck off. You know what I mean? Like, it’s one of those things. Like, like, I, I, I’m anticipating all the well actually people, um, who are, Never going to listen to this, but, but I’m, I’m, I hear you anyway, and I’m, I’m anticipating your, your objections and I’m telling you, I understand and I don’t care. [00:23:28] Christina: Um, but, um, what, uh, what’s great about 1Password is that because like, I, I can, you know, once, once I authenticate, you know, to get into that, like all my passkeys work without me having to touch a YubiKey or log in with another biometric means, which on this current machine I don’t have, like, um, Okta desktop won’t work on my iMac because it doesn’t have. [00:23:52] Christina: Um, a biometric sensor. So, um, but yet pass keys for Okta work through one password. So [00:24:00] [00:24:00] Brett: Have you, have you ever used, um, so you, you know how you can have authenticator apps like Google has one, Oracle has one, Microsoft has one, um, and they give you your six digit, your 2FA code. Um, and I hate. Like, I’ll be logging into, like, Oracle, and it’ll ask me to pull up my phone, open the Authenticator app, copy the, er, like, memorize the code, and then type it in, and that’s, that’s a pain in the butt. [00:24:32] Brett: Um, if you can Set up one password as your [00:24:36] Brett: authenticator app, which works most places. Yeah. It just auto fills your, your 2FA code every time. So I’ve been trying to port everything over to that. It has not worked. Oracle for some reason demands that you use [00:24:50] Brett: their, [00:24:50] Christina: Yeah. Microsoft does too for logging into Microsoft things. And they do it in a weird way where like, they send me a thing where they’re like, type in this code in [00:25:00] this app. so, it’s not the same TOT, like you can use the Microsoft Authenticator app as a TOTP provider. [00:25:06] Christina: And for non corporate accounts, Microsoft Authenticator. You could actually, I’m pretty sure you could probably set up, um, um, Google Authenticator or Authy or 1Password or another, you know, T O T P provider to be the person who would provide you, like, that code, like, for, like, your consumer Xbox account or consumer Outlook account or whatever. [00:25:23] Christina: However, with, I think it’s now called Intra, Which is such a fucking bad name, but it used to be Azure Active Directory, but now it’s, or Azure AD, now it’s Intra, but for that, you have to, with an E, yeah, it’s a fucking weird name, I’m like, I’m like, Intra is really close to Encarta, if you think about it, and, and, That’s weird because I bet the people who came up with the name don’t even remember Rincarda But I do because I was a child and I loved it. [00:25:52] Christina: Anyway, Intra, you know that app like makes you log in with your face or some other way [00:26:00] and then type in Like the characters that it will show you on your screen [00:26:05] Brett: the way, like, that’s the way GitHub, uh, the GitHub mobile app authentication, if you choose to use, yeah, you have to load up GitHub mobile and then type in the code, which is honestly easier to me than looking at my phone and copying by hand a [00:26:22] Brett: six digit [00:26:22] Christina: No, totally. I mean, and I agree with that. I actually prefer, like, tell me what to type into my phone rather than the other way around. I’m with you. But, like, the best thing is just, like, autofill it for me. Um, or, or in the case, or in the case of GitHub, use a passkey, right? Because you can use passkeys with GitHub. [00:26:38] Christina: And then that’s great. And what’s great about 1Password, um, What I like, like, so passkeys right now aren’t fully, like, exportable, um, although apparently that’s going to be coming to the spec. But, you know, I will save the same passkey or, you know, maybe two different passkeys, but it will both be authenticated the same way, both, like, in my, you know, phone’s, um, password. [00:26:59] Christina: [00:27:00] You know, manager folder as well as on one password. And then I can select like on my phone, like, where do you want what passkey? Where do you want to use it from? And I’m like, great. And, um, the only annoying thing about like Google’s passkey implementation is that it doesn’t sync. So you have to have like a different passkey. [00:27:15] Christina: Like you have, like, if you have a passkey set up for Chrome, for instance, you need to do that, like on every device that you’ve got Chrome installed on. And it’s, it’s great. Um, and for most people who don’t have four, how many computers do I have? Four or five. Yeah, I’m literally counting. I’m literally counting in my head because I’m like, hmm, I mean, it’s four that I use heavily and then like, um, and that doesn’t count the iPhone and iPad. And then like, I have a fifth. So yeah, um, technically a sixth, but yeah, but I don’t do other stuff on that one. [00:27:48] Christina: So yeah, most people don’t have that situation, but like for someone like me, I’m like, I appreciate how 1Password does it because I just need to install 1Password everywhere and then my passkeys are working like [00:28:00] on every platform. [00:28:03] Sponsor: AeroPress [00:28:03] Brett: I’m gonna stick a sponsor read in here. I’m actually pretty excited to have these guys as a sponsor. So, um, we’re gonna talk about Aeropress. Aeropress combines the best qualities of a few coffee brewing methods into one cup. A little French press, a little pour over, and a little espresso all in one cup. [00:28:23] Brett: It’s the best cup of classic coffee you’ll ever drink. AeroPress is incredibly versatile, giving you full control over all brewing variables like temperature, time, grind size. So unlike other brewers, you can make countless recipes. I have my own favorites, but I love to experiment and get different cups of coffee from the same beans. [00:28:45] Brett: And it’s the fastest single cup coffee maker out there. Two minutes to brew and clean. I have a Zojirushi water heater so I can We have boiling water in about a minute, um, and have my cup of coffee two minutes later. [00:29:00] AeroPress just released a new set of clear colors, blue, green, purple, red, and more, so you can add a touch of color and personality to your brew wherever you are. [00:29:09] Brett: I’m rocking a red one right now and I love it, but I am tempted by blue too. I only need one AeroPress, but we have three in the house, uh, you know, just in case three people want a cup of coffee at the same time, I guess. Um, AeroPress is shockingly affordable, less than 50, and we’ve got an incredible offer for our listeners. [00:29:29] Brett: Visit aeropress. com slash overtired, that’s a e r o p r e s s dot com slash overtired, and use the promo code overtired to save 20 percent off your order. That’s AeroPress. com slash Overtired. And be sure to use the code Overtired at checkout to save 20%. It’s time to ditch the drive, drive through, toss the French press and say yes to better mornings fueled by better coffee. [00:29:56] Brett: AeroPress ships to the USA and over 60 countries [00:30:00] around the world. And we thank AeroPress for sponsoring our show. [00:30:05] Sponsor: ExpressVPN [00:30:05] So, how do you feel about [00:30:07] Brett: ExpressVPN? [00:30:07] Christina: I mean, okay, genuinely, um, they are also a sponsor, this week and we appreciate them very much. I pay for ExpressVPN and, uh, I, like, I don’t get this for free from them for them providing, uh, a sponsorship for us. Although that would be nice. Uh, I actually pay for it. So, When you think about like how you choose like your internet service provider and who to use, what’s, what’s funny is in the United States anyway, don’t have a choice in most cases. [00:30:33] Christina: It’s just like, This is your ISP. And if you want to get it from someone else, then you have to, you know, pay for like a, a cellular, carrier and, and in on that, which may or may not be better, than, than what your options are, but your, your options are limited. [00:30:48] Christina: And so, this allows, you know, basically these companies going to have the monopoly and then they can determine not just, what types of, service they offer you, but because net neutrality law is being recalled, [00:31:00] they can determine like how fast or how slow certain types of, of content you have access to is. [00:31:04] Christina: And then in addition to that, this is also a thing, again, net neutrality laws, uh, uh, being repealed, um, allowed this to happen. Like they can sell your data, like they can log and sell all the, Different sites that you visit and access and, um, and that’s allowed. Thanks Ajit Pai for all of that. [00:31:21] Christina: So, um It is, in some ways, a good idea to use a VPN, like ExpressVPN, to maybe hide your traffic from your ISP, if you want. Like, if you don’t want, like, what you’re doing being sold to other people. It’s a VPN, so it’s going to be encrypting network traffic and tunneling it through their secure server so that your ISP can’t see any of your activity. [00:31:42] Christina: ( ) And that’s not a bad idea. It’s also a good idea to use something like that if you’re on a network that you don’t have a lot of information about. Um, because even though most web traffic these days is encrypted, um, you know, HTTPS, um, you don’t necessarily want the people, you know, at the Marriott to, again, be able to kind [00:32:00] of, like, control what sorts of content you can and can’t access. [00:32:02] Christina: I’ve actually run into this before, where I’ve been using, like, a perfectly valid, Um, thing like a, like a, like a torrent client. And I’ve been at a hotel and they’ve been like, no, because this daemon is running on your machine, you’re not even actively like running a torrent right now. But because you have this like background daemon, like we’re not letting you access our network. [00:32:21] Christina: Like that’s the real thing that’s happened to me. So you can use ExpressVPN. And then the main network can’t, can’t see that. That was what’s your, what you’re doing and you know, Bob’s your uncle. So big fan of express VPN. Um, you know, also use it if you want to watch Canadian Netflix, it’s good stuff. [00:32:36] Christina: Uh, so I, I recommend it as a way to, you know, hide your online activity from the Marriott or your own ISP or to. Access Netflix in another country so stop handing your personal data to ISPs and other tech giants who mine your activity and sell off your information. Protect yourself with the VPN that I trust to keep me private online. [00:32:54] Christina: You can visit expressvpn. com slash overtired. That’s e x p r [00:33:00] e s s v p n dot com slash overtired to get three extra months for free. Expressvpn. com slash overtired right now to learn more. [00:33:11] None.com [00:33:11] Brett: Yup. Alright. Uh, side note, like, all of these, uh, VPN ads used to be about, um, well, for a while they were all about, like, co location or whatever you want to, geolocation, um, which, which is valid, but it used, before that it was all about security, but you’re right, like, everything is SSL encrypted now. So it’s kind of, that’s a moot point. [00:33:39] Brett: So these, these new talking points [00:33:41] Brett: are far [00:33:42] Christina: yeah, exactly. Yeah, they’ve had to shift around that because it’s like, yeah, everything is SSL encrypted, so it’s just, it’s not like the same thing like, oh, the Wi Fi at the airport is going to snoop your data. No, it’s not. It’s just they might sell your data, right? Like, especially if you log in with an actual email address. which don’t ever do. Just do none at none. [00:34:00] com for the airport wifi. I promise you, because they don’t make, because there’s, because if you think about it, there’s no way for you to check, to click on an email link at the airport when they ask you for it. So they’re just asking you for an email. So just none at none. [00:34:13] Christina: com. I have no idea what, who owns that domain or, or, or anything. And I hope to God there’s not a mailbox attached to it because, you know, I bet that there are millions and millions of people who every day are just like, This, this is my random email. [00:34:27] Brett: I use example. com [00:34:29] Brett: just [00:34:30] Christina: Yeah, it makes sense. [00:34:31] Brett: like, it’s a force of habit because when you’re writing for the web, if you want to use a dummy URL, you can’t just make shit up because then people can buy that domain and hijack any traffic that does anyone who doesn’t realize it’s a dummy URL and they click it and yeah. [00:34:47] Brett: Yeah. So I always use example. com cause that’s a protected, I, I [00:34:52] Brett: can [00:34:53] Christina: Correct. Which is good. Yeah, the reason I do none is just because it’s fewer characters to type. [00:35:00] But you’re right. When you’re like writing things, it’s better. But like when I’m like on my phone, I’m like, I don’t have time to do the ex. Like I’m just now, I’m just, you know. [00:35:11] Google AI and the death of web traffic [00:35:11] Brett: So can we talk a little bit about Google’s vision of the [00:35:15] Christina: Yes, please. Let’s talk about it. How many times are we going to say AI in this conversation? And can we use Google? [00:35:21] Christina: And can we use Gemini or whatever to tell us? Anyway. Sorry. Yes. [00:35:27] Brett: um, so Google IO happened recently and. Uh, one of their major focuses was AI search, um, AI in general, they, they demoed, uh, an improved version of AI from the last Google I O round. Um, but like they’re talking about basically revamping their search results page to provide answers directly on the page, re reducing the need to click into [00:36:00] websites, which. [00:36:02] Brett: Okay, A, that’s like for us old school web people, like getting Google traffic was a major source of traffic to our website, um, which leads to the ability to have advertisers, the ability to build a name, to build a reputation. Um, if they were to. Scrape my data and just give it directly to people without sending them to my site? [00:36:28] Brett: That seems like, that seems like a betrayal of the web. But also, they run [00:36:34] Brett: most of the [00:36:35] Christina: Well, I was going to say, this is, this is a, this is like a, a big, I have to feel like this is like a big existential crisis internally for them because [00:36:46] Brett: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a [00:36:47] Brett: caveat for [00:36:48] Christina: because, yeah, because, you know, okay. So I think when I think of like greatest acquisitions in history, like in business and like in computing history, right? [00:36:58] Christina: Like, obviously you have, you [00:37:00] know, Apple acquiring Next, right? Which, which brought back Steve Jobs, which was most important and also gave them the underpinnings for, you know, Mac OS X, which. Thinned is the underpinnings for everything they have. I also think of Apple’s acquisition of, um, um, um, uh, PaSemi and, and getting, um, into being able to, to manufacture their own chips, right? [00:37:20] Christina: And, um, and then the PaSemi acquisition, which was, a fairly small acquisition, let them do that. But then I also think like for the web, like, and then you also think like, you know, like, like Facebook buying Instagram, things like that. One of the ones that has to be like in the top three, if not the top two is, is Google buying DoubleClick. [00:37:41] Christina: So when Google bought DoubleClick, which was, you know, the big ad serving thing, they were able to do exactly what you said. Like, Page rank already existed and people were wanting to rank highly on Google, you know, because people were using Google as a search engine to drive traffic to their sites. And then they were able to sell ads on it. [00:37:56] Christina: But then Google was like, well, we’re going to buy DoubleClick and we’re going to sell you [00:38:00] the ads that are on your site. And we’re going to app, we’re going to do it in a programmatic way. And we’re going to let you just insert a snippet of code. And then we will show you contextual ads, you know, on your site and make it very easy for people to do that. [00:38:11] Christina: And, and Google and Facebook are. I think they’re like 80 something percent of the ad market, right? All of, all of that comes through them. And Google is by far the largest. So it is interesting. A, like you said, it feels like a betrayal for people who are like, Hey, we gave you access to our sites. We let you, you know, search them and whatnot. [00:38:29] Christina: And we played by your rules, even sometimes to our detriment about changing how our sites were coded and how information was presented so that you would rank us well, so that people would click through to us. Now you’re going to. Upend that and not show us, you know, like not take people to our site, you know, scrape our, you’re already kind of taking some of our data and putting it into data boxes and, and other things on the site. [00:38:53] Christina: And there were, there’ve been lawsuits about that, but now you’re not even pretending that the goal is to send people to our sites. [00:39:00] You’re just flat out going to take it. But, you know, the, the, the weird caveat is, is that by not sending people to our sites, that also means that people are not going to see the ads that you provide. [00:39:11] Christina: So how is Google going to make money from search? [00:39:15] Brett: Yeah, no, I think something’s got to give there either. They need to walk back their obvious plan for, uh, basically a bot [00:39:27] Christina: Mm hmm. [00:39:27] Brett: that answers any and all questions instead of directing traffic around the web. They’re, they’re either going to have to walk that back or they’re going to have to find a new revenue stream because I have to imagine ad revenue is not an insignificant part of [00:39:41] Brett: Google’s annual. [00:39:43] Christina: it is. I mean, it’s, it’s how they make money. Like it is, it is how they make money. So you can’t just get rid of that. And, and it is, and the hard thing is, is that, you know, people do use, increasingly use, you know, chat GPT and, and other, um, services like that to do web searching and [00:40:00] to get answers to questions and. [00:40:01] Christina: Yes, that does have an impact on what websites people will visit. But the thing is, is that that’s not real time. Like, as much as Bing is trying to make it more real time, and as much as, you know, OpenAI is trying to, you know, um, add in stuff to make it more real time, like, it’s not quite there yet. So, for, like, Depending on what you’re searching for, you might not get those results. [00:40:26] Christina: You might still need to like, have a traditional Google or, or, you know. Uh, I’ve been using Kegi, actually. I’ve been paying for Kegi. I guess that’s how it’s pronounced. It’s K A G I, and so, [00:40:38] Brett: Oh, like the old, [00:40:39] Christina: yes. [00:40:40] Brett: to be a software licensing company called [00:40:43] Christina: and, and, and, and, it, yeah, Kaji or Kegi, I have no idea how it’s pronounced, um, uh, I say Kegi, but, uh, please correct me if I’m wrong on this, um, yeah, they, they, uh, they bought the domain from them, but it’s not affiliated with that in any way, um, the, the people who are behind this [00:41:00] I don’t know how the guy got rich, um, but he got rich and then decided to start building the Orion web browser that I think we’ve talked about, which is, which is, um, WebKit based, but it supports, um, web extensions. [00:41:14] Christina: And so, um, it’s pretty cool. And, um, but it turns out that, that Orion was, was always kind of created in some ways. It’s, it’s kind of like a way to kind of show off the search engine. And so Keiki is, it costs money. It’s like, um, I’m on a family plan or duo plan with, with my friend Justin. So we pay like, 14 a month, um, with, with, with tax, um, or I guess annually, I guess we pay 151 a year. [00:41:42] Christina: So 1260 a month in tax. So I paid Justin 75 cause he already had the plan. Um, and, um, we, um, basically, um, you get unlimited search, um, from unlimited devices and they bring stuff in from a number of different sources, [00:42:00] some their own, some that they’ve, you know, worked with other people. So like, I think BraveSearch is one of their sources and, um, you know, Bing and, and, you know, DECA Go and things like that, as well as some other things. [00:42:11] Christina: And then they have some AI summarization tools that you can use with some of their things. And they have like a, I guess like a partnership with, with, with Wolfram Alpha, but the main thing I use it for is just honestly, just straight up search. And I found the search to be really, really good. Um, I was like, not sure if I needed to pay for a search engine and I’ve got so frustrated with Google search that I started paying for. [00:42:35] Christina: For, um, uh, Kegi or Kaji or however the hell you pronounce it. Yeah. [00:42:41] Brett: yeah, no, it’s, I guess my, it’s a lesser concern, but the other thing about like actually linking people to a webpage is you have, you can get a pretty good sense as to [00:42:53] Brett: how [00:42:54] Christina: Oh, 1000%. [00:42:55] Brett: a source of information is by visiting the webpage. You do not get that [00:43:00] opportunity when a bot is just telling you, this is the answer you, you, then you have to do a search to verify [00:43:07] Brett: your [00:43:07] Christina: Well, no, that’s the thing, right? And, and, and what’s frustrating is, is like, even when you have an, and I, you know, what they were kind of showing off, it’s like, um, I was watching IO from a plane, so correct me if I’m wrong on this, but it didn’t seem like they were showing a list of sources of where they were getting that information, right? [00:43:24] Christina: So, which means that I then have to, like, I would like to ask myself the question, like, how credible am I finding this? And, where is this coming from? And, like, can I find a way to get this information? You know, like, can I figure out, like, where they got this information so I can then vet it? You’re right, right? [00:43:40] Christina: Like, it would, it would at least be better if they, um, Like would show you a source list. don’t know. Maybe they do. Again, I was, I was on a plane when I was watching IO, so I have no idea. [00:43:53] Brett: I didn’t notice, I mean, to me, that seems like minimum viable product [00:44:00] would require a source list and, and links to the sources we scrape this information from, not just to be polite, but for exactly, uh, to avoid hallucinations, to allow people to, and that’s the problem is most people won’t. Most like if AI starts hallucinating or starts cannibalizing itself in any way, then most people are just going to accept what Google tells them. [00:44:31] Brett: And, and Google itself could become a source of misinformation. [00:44:37] Christina: I’m sure that it will be. I’m sure that it will be. No. And then it, and it’s just, I don’t know, like I, I understand what they’re trying to do because they are seeing themselves getting disrupted out of this market and they need to disrupt themselves. And I fully understand that, but like, I don’t know if the vision that they’ve shown off is like a good vision of, [00:44:58] Brett: Yeah, I, I [00:45:00] kind of don’t think it is. And for like obvious reasons that we’ve talked about now, [00:45:04] Grapptitude [00:45:04] Brett: but anyhow, how would you feel about a, uh, What’s it called? A Graptitude. [00:45:13] Christina: yeah. I love [00:45:14] Brett: I can go first because I don’t know if you’re [00:45:16] Brett: prepared [00:45:16] Christina: I’m not prepared, um, but I need to look [00:45:19] Brett: you’ll figure it out. I recently Okay, so let me start by saying TextExpander has been a long time supporter of my work and um, I have devoted a lot of time to building cool TextExpander snippets. [00:45:37] Brett: But TextExpander is not really innovating anymore. There is a new text expansion tool that is doing some very cool things called TextBlaze. And I talked to, I got a, I got a demo from, um, a guy that actually used to work at TextExpander who now does sales [00:46:00] for, Um, Text Blaze, and he gave me like a full tour, and if you go, I’ll link the, [00:46:08] Brett: it’s, [00:46:08] Christina: Blaze. today? [00:46:10] Brett: yeah, Blaze. [00:46:11] Brett: today, and if you go there, it looks like it’s just the Chrome extension, and you have to scroll all the way to the bottom to see the macOS app, um, and it syncs between platforms, so you can run the Chrome extension, and the macOS app, and the Windows app, And all of your snippets sync and it has, it does not have script snippets, which was one of the big things that I used TextExpander for. [00:46:37] Brett: But what it does have is like this command palette and some that has commands like URL load and it will pull in a JSON response from an API, and then , you can write a JavaScript function to, um, parse and output, you know, any part [00:47:00] of that JSON response, um, which actually solves, I mean, half of the shell script snippets that I have in TextExpander are really just Curling and API and, and, and those don’t work on iOS. [00:47:15] Brett: So they were kind of like, they’re outdated at this point. And having this built in ability to, to pull in, an external data source is brilliant and you can do if then scripting and they have all the fill ins for like text fields and dropdowns. And. I’m having a lot of fun, like, kind of porting all my stuff over to it. [00:47:37] Brett: The one thing that’s killing me is, In TextExpander, I always set it to expand after whitespace. So I would have to type the snippet and then the spacebar. And TextBlaze cannot do that. And you cannot include a space in a shortcut. So, I mean, I can get used to that. That’s fine. But I, [00:48:00] I naturally hit a space after I type a shortcut. [00:48:04] Brett: Like it’s ingrained muscle memory. So I keep ending up with like, I have one that just writes, thanks Brett, at the end of an email. Dash equals, writes, thanks. No, comma TX writes, thanks Brett, um, to sign off on emails. And I always hit the space, comma TX space. So then I get a space right before the T in. [00:48:27] Brett: And then I have to backspace and that does not save me any time. I could have typed it faster at that point. Um, so I, that’s going to take some getting used to. I’m getting there. I’m basically using, instead of comma comma, which is my kind of standard prefix for, TextExpander. I’m using forward slash, um, so that my brain can start new muscle memory on these. [00:48:53] Brett: Um, but yeah, no, it’s super cool, super fun to play with. They do have clients for [00:49:00] various operating systems, all in beta right now, so, for anyone who is a long time TextExpander user who wants to try something new, it’s, uh, it’s worth [00:49:11] Brett: checking out. [00:49:12] Christina: Yeah, I’m looking at the site now and so, and it looks like, yeah, like it’s in free, it’s free forever. They’ve got like a free forever plan. And then they, it looks like they have like a pro plan, which is 3 a month, which that’s about the same price as text expander, I think. Um. [00:49:28] Christina: They have a free account, but then if you want to do certain things, like, for instance, if you want to add in, so, and, and the free plan might be good enough, but I can’t tell from the free plan, is it that, like, they have these, um, looks like they have, like, these, these snippet packs or command packs or what? [00:49:45] Brett: command packs that are very much geared, like most of those only work in Chrome and they’re designed for automating like Gmail tasks and, and there’s AI, uh, writing built in, like it’ll [00:50:00] write, you know, You can basically use AI to generate a pleasant intro to an email to X customer and then save that as a snippet. [00:50:10] Brett: Um, and I, I don’t, I haven’t differentiated between what’s available in my business [00:50:15] Brett: plan. [00:50:16] Christina: what I can’t [00:50:16] Brett: what’s available in [00:50:17] Brett: the free [00:50:18] Christina: what I was thinking is, because I didn’t know this, like, is if any of the, like, some of the API stuff, like, obviously, yeah, those command packs have been pre created for things, but they also have, like, these connected snippets and then these dynamic commands where, like, you can basically have, like, a, you know, a function that’ll, you know, for things like a clipboard or click or whatnot, which might be useful and might be a way potentially to get around the lack of AppleScript support. [00:50:42] Christina: So, that, that I don’t [00:50:44] Brett: Check this out. Check this out though. They have a discourse, forum and they’ve built a, like, shortcode for embedding snippets. And it will actually display the snippet. Like it’s, [00:51:00] it’s cool. You can type out like in curly brackets, you can type in your own commands. And then when you double click them, they turn into tokenized bubbles. [00:51:08] Brett: And then you can click on that bubble and you get like a whole info palette where you can edit all of its parameters and everything on the side. They built that into their discourse forum. So you get a JavaScript version of your snippet. That you can preview. You can, you can click a button to import it to your [00:51:26] Brett: own text [00:51:26] Christina: Oh, that’s [00:51:27] Brett: And, and it, yeah, it looks exactly like it does in the app. I, it’s super cool. I love [00:51:33] Brett: it. [00:51:33] Christina: That’s very cool. No, I’ll check this out. Um, I’ve been using, what’s the, um, [00:51:37] Christina: I’m trying to think who it’s from, I think it might be from, but I, because I, I have, I pay for TechMate or not, not Te TechMate, um, um, uh, text Expander. Um, I would pay for TechMate if TechMate we’re still in, development. Um, but on, on some machines, like it just doesn’t make sense for me to always like, have. TextExpander running. Um, [00:52:00] and, and I think I also was just like wanting to look at like what like alternatives might have been. So I, I’ve, um, I’ve played with some alternatives, um, that, that have been good and that, that it can, you know, uh, take TextExpander inputs. Um, the, the big thing that I run into, like, like you said, is the, the lack of white space thing. [00:52:22] Christina: Like, that’s a, that’s a thing that for me can, can really kind of ruin things. But no, but this looks great. This looks really, really cool. Um, a typinator, that’s, that’s the app. That’s the [00:52:31] Brett: Type in [00:52:32] Christina: Typinator. Um, I, I’ve paid for that, um, and um, because, I, I don’t know, like a one time thing versus a, you know, ongoing subscription. [00:52:42] Christina: There’s appeal in that, depending on how much you use, you know, your, your tools. Um, I, I haven’t had a problem paying for TextExpander, but at the same time, I don’t know, I like to, I like to try things out. So, uh, TextBlaze, I’ll give that a shot. Um, that’s cool, [00:52:55] Brett: I want, I want the code for that discourse plugin so that I [00:53:00] can embed text play snippets on my blog and make them look as cool as they do in discourse. Um, I don’t know if they’re gonna [00:53:09] Brett: open that up [00:53:10] Christina: I mean, they should. I mean, honestly, here’s the thing, like, the community of people who care about sharing Expander snippets for any tax expander service is it’s like 10 people, right? Like the community people who care about that is like really small and you’re part of that. [00:53:27] Christina: So if you are wanting people to adopt your tool, like, I think that it would make sense for them to, to make that sort of thing open. [00:53:34] Brett: they do, they do have some sharing, uh, features that I think they’re going to improve on, uh, much like TextExpander finally, after like 10 years, started offering like web based snippet sharing, um, long after I had built my own like snippet, snippet group generator. Um, but yeah, [00:53:57] Christina: no, that’s great. Um, okay. So my [00:54:00] pick is, and this kind of goes into a topic that we didn’t talk about, but, um, I can talk about a little bit here. So I bought a new Windows laptop. So, um, I last bought a Windows laptop about three years ago and I got the, uh, one from Framework, um, a company that, that I, I like a lot who makes, sustainable, like modular, upgradable laptops. [00:54:22] Christina: And I really liked my Framework laptop, um, except it was an 11th Gen Intel processor and this was better than some of the Intel generations, but like not the best in terms of like battery life performance, like certainly nothing close to like what Apple Silicon was giving you, right? Um, and um, They do have an AMD variant available now that I looked at buying. [00:54:43] Christina: The only reason I didn’t was because it was a little expensive considering I already, like if I were buying a brand new laptop and I didn’t already have like a framework, like it would have been a no brainer. But since I didn’t, since I already had a framework laptop and I was like, it’s the same screen, it’s the same [00:55:00] keyboard, it’s just, you know, a different processor and new RAM and stuff. [00:55:04] Christina: Like I didn’t know if I wanted to go through the process of upgrading everything over or if I wanted to. Like, I don’t know. It just, it felt, I felt like I kind of maybe just wanted something a little bit different. So I bought, um, HP had a sale and then American Express had 150 off offer. So it was like, if you bought something for a thousand dollars or more, you got 150 off and then HP had a sale. [00:55:27] Christina: And so a laptop that Best Buy was selling for basically the equivalent of the Best Buy, like their price, their MSRP was like 1, 900. I wound up getting four. Um, I think like 12. 56 before tax and before the, you know, discount. Um, and so it was like 13 something, um, uh, after tax. And then, so, you know, minus 150, basically 1, 200. [00:55:51] Christina: I got, um, a core, 7, I think that’s what they call it, 155H, I don’t know, Intel has a new [00:56:00] naming scheme. With 32 gigs of RAM and a 1 terabyte SSD, um, and it’s a touch screen, um, convertible, so like it’ll, it’s, the x360 part of it is that, you know, you can turn it all around, you can draw on it with like, like a tablet. [00:56:13] Christina: Um, basically cheaper than an iPad Pro, uh, but actually you can use it as a computer. Um. Bye. Yes, that is a dig, and I have an iPad Pro, and I might be buying the new iPad Pro. I don’t know yet. If I do, it’s just so I can give my iPad Pro to my mom, because it would be cheaper to give her that iPad Pro than, like, the amount of money that Apple will give me for buyback, like, is less than what a 10th gen iPad would cost. [00:56:38] Christina: It’s, it’s dumb. Anyway, um, I’m rambling here, but I got a new Windows laptop. And so I, I’ve been playing with, with Windows a little bit more because this laptop is, is faster and is more efficient than like my three year old one, which I’ve, I haven’t fucked with in a long time and I still have many complaints about Windows, especially with the setup process and and definitely I’m looking forward to seeing I [00:57:00] think there’s going to be like a Qualcomm announcement, um, in the next few weeks about, um, um, Apparently Windows on arm is finally gonna get good. [00:57:09] Christina: And, and we’ll, and we’ll see if, if that, if that actually happens. But in the interim, um, I have been playing, you know, on, on this new laptop that I’ve had for about a week and a half now. And, and I, I like a lot of things about it. Uh, I like the ole screen, I like the, the refresh rate, but my gude pick. And this was my, I’m very sorry. [00:57:28] Christina: This is my long way of getting into this. I’m, I’m long wind, I’m long-winded because I’m tired. Um. is Arc, the web browser we were talking about, like web browsers, Arc is now available for Windows. [00:57:38] Brett: Nice. Yeah. I remember Brian Guffey was talking about that. They were totally sold on that browser a long time ago. Um, but at that point I think [00:57:48] Brett: it was [00:57:49] Christina: Yeah, and it’s, it’s been not going to land. So a couple of weeks ago, um, ARC became available for Windows. And what’s interesting about it, I believe, is that they built it using like Swift still for [00:58:00] Windows. Um, they, they released this a year ago. There was a video, um, it says how we’re building the ARC, um, browser Windows app with Swift. So they’re actually. Doing like Swift under the hood, which is pretty interesting. So instead, um, yeah, so this was from, um, I guess their CEO, this was back in November of 2022. [00:58:19] Christina: So 18 months ago, he says, Arc is coming to Windows in 2023. Okay. You were off there, buddy. But although I think it was available in preview, but I didn’t, um, use the preview. With a twist, instead of using C sharp, Arc for Windows will be built using Swift. This is at browser company’s biggest R& D yet. Um, and, and then they have a whole video about, like, why we need to do those things. [00:58:42] Christina: And I’m assuming it’s just because it was just easier for them for, for whatever they’re trying to do. I will actually want to go watch that, that full video because I have questions about why you would, why you would choose this when you’re rendering [00:58:54] Christina: engine is Chromium. [00:58:56] Brett: if, you can have, uh, two codebases that [00:59:00] more or less align, it would save you, in the long run, it would save you a lot of development [00:59:06] Brett: time. [00:59:07] Christina: Yeah, [00:59:08] Brett: So I have to assume, I have to assume it’s so that they can port code back and forth. Although I’ve tried porting. Swift code to like Linux machines and run into like the frameworks are different and the APIs are different and it still takes a lot of, uh, manipulation, especially for something as complex as like the Arc browser. [00:59:32] Brett: So it is an interesting [00:59:33] Brett: choice. [00:59:34] Christina: Well, yeah, no, totally. I mean, I understand, I think, kind of the decision there because, like you said, the, you know, less maintenance, but then at the same time, I’m like, but your underlying, like, rendering engine is chromium. Um, I don’t know, like, wouldn’t C just be your better option? Like, honestly? [00:59:52] Brett: I hate [00:59:52] Brett: writing in [00:59:53] Christina: I know I understand that, but I’m saying if you’re a browser company, if your company name literally is The Browser [01:00:00] Company, which is their name, which is great. But if your company name is The Browser Company, it make more sense to use something like C as your language on all of your platforms from the beginning, rather than trying to scaffold Swift into working on Windows? That, that’s all I’m saying. So, I will drop the video in show notes cause, cause I, cause I wanna, um, I, I have, I have questions about this, but, at the same time, I don’t care, um, in terms of like, like, what decisions you made, hey, maybe you just wanted to nerd snipe, like, maybe you just really, you know what I mean? [01:00:33] Christina: Like, I’m, I’m like, I’m a big fan, like, whatever you wanna do, guys, um, anyway, I like the browser a lot, um, I actually like, um, We were talking about AI stuff. I actually like how ARC has, gives you the option if you want to enable some AI tools for doing some summarization and some search stuff. They use Perplexity AI under the hood, which is a service that I now get for free, pro for free, because I bought that stupid Rabbit R1 device. [01:00:59] Christina: [01:01:00] Um, and I got it and it’s dumb as hell and the company is sketchy as fuck and I, I’m not recommend, [01:01:05] Brett: but then they basically released a non functional [01:01:09] Brett: Android phone. [01:01:10] Christina: Well, yeah, which, which of course they did. Of course it was going to be based on AOSP. For me, the thing that I was actually more pissed about was the fact that like, when you log into the services, they’re like, Oh, you need to use a computer. You can’t use your phone or your browser or, or, or an iPad. [01:01:25] Christina: I’m like, okay, that’s weird. And then on my computer, I was like, this doesn’t look retina. And I realized that what you’re doing is you’re, you’re logging into a, um, a VM. Um, controlled by like, um, tiny VNC or something. And so, but they’re hiding it. And so they’re making it look like you’re logging into an official login thing. [01:01:43] Christina: Then the way I realized, A, was that stuff wasn’t writing that. And B, I was like, why is my password manager not auto filling? And then I realized what was happening. And there was, and they have like this fucking copy button where you can like pay, pay something from your clipboard and then like, send it to. [01:01:58] Christina: Um, the password [01:02:00] field. And I was like, okay, so this is sketch as fuck, right? Like, I, I, I, rather than using OAuth, which is what you should be doing, they’re like, oh, well, we don’t need to use any official APIs because we’re just using playwright scripts to, you know, do our functions. I’m like, I get it. I get, I get that, like, you know, you might be violating Spotify’s You know, uh, partner terms or whatever. [01:02:21] Christina: Although Spotify makes a very, like, they have a hardware program that this company could definitely has the money for and could definitely, like, you know, qualify for. Like, there’s no reason for, like, maybe for, like, Uber or DoorDash, you would need to, to do what they’re doing. But for Spotify, like, there, there’s a valid way you could have an integration set in. [01:02:41] Christina: Regardless, anyway, Ravida’s sketch as fuck. The reason I don’t regret it is A, 200, who cares? B, um, I’m very privileged, blah, blah, blah. B, but, but, but let’s be real. If you’ve listened to this podcast or any of my, my other podcasts, you know that I’ve wasted 200 on so many dumber things than this. Like it’s not even, this doesn’t even [01:03:00] rank, like it’s not even in the top 100. [01:03:02] Christina: But I got a year of Perplexity Pro for free, which is also 200. So, Um, I enjoy Proplexity Pro quite a bit. Um, it’s, um, it’s basically kind of like ChatGPT but you can also choose between, um, Claude and, um, the, the Mistral models and, and some of the other models too. So it’s, it’s pretty cool, but they also have stuff with Arc for summarizing. [01:03:23] Christina: And asking some AI related stuff, so you don’t have to use that stuff. You can turn all those things off, but I like the ARC browser a lot. I like how its tabs work. I like, um, uh, it’s opinionated and what it’s doing. And so, um, and then now there’s a Windows version and, um, and I enjoy it on Windows too. So anyway, [01:03:40] Brett: I get the, I get the ARC newsletter and I see all of their, every time they have a new feature, I read about it. Um, I have it installed. I’ve never kind of pretty sold on Firefox right now, so I haven’t been looking for a new browser, but they are doing some very cool things that I think ultimately [01:04:00] may convince me [01:04:00] Brett: to switch. [01:04:01] Christina: I mean, the thing that is for me, like that prevents me from Firefox is the same thing that kind of prevents me from Safari, but, uh, it’s, it’s Safari has, it’s more, it’s that there are certain apps, and I, I’ve run into less of this, to be clear, but there are certain apps that will, that are, that are designed for [01:04:17] Christina: Chromium. [01:04:17] Brett: like, Riverside here right now, anything that’s recording video, anything pretty much that uses video, is going to prefer Chrome, uh, or a Chromium browser. Um, so that makes perfect sense. And, and honestly, I, I have to load up Chrome to, to record our podcast, so I’m not purely a [01:04:36] Brett: Firefox [01:04:37] Christina: Right, right. [01:04:37] Brett: But Firefox Developer Edition, um, I can’t remember what they call it, Web Developer Edition or whatever, uh, with the blue Firefox logo, the, the inspector palette in that is [01:04:50] Brett: crazy cool. [01:04:52] Christina: I like that a lot. I actually recently, it’s funny, um, I, um, yeah, I like the Firefox Developer Edition and then, um, they have a, they have a VS Code plugin [01:05:00] too, which is really great. Um, cause that’s actually one of my things that, like, I really liked about Edge when it first came out. Like, cause the Edge DevTools are really good and I, and I still stand by that. [01:05:11] Christina: Like, I, I prefer the Edge DevTools to the, um, Chrome, um, DevTools. They are actually. Fairly significantly different, and um, I like that like you, I can use those in VS Code. But yeah, the Firefox ones are really good now too, and I, and they have a, they have a, um, a VS Code extension. So yeah, big fan of that. [01:05:28] Brett: All right. So next time we’re going to talk about all of my recent keyboard purchases and how I’m building keyboards from scratch now, because I’ve gone down a rabbit hole and it’s costing me a lot of money. And someone told me, at least you didn’t go down an espresso rabbit hole, because that gets way more expensive, but I’m like, I’m buying keycaps for like 30 dollars a piece, so it’s gonna, it’s gonna, [01:05:55] Christina: No, it is. No, that’s so funny. So like, like, like, like, like 30 per key?[01:06:00] [01:06:00] Brett: You, uh, [01:06:01] Brett: just for [01:06:01] Christina: Oh, just for artisans. Okay. [01:06:03] Brett: my, yeah, my resin [01:06:04] Brett: coin [01:06:05] Christina: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just, just for your [01:06:07] Brett: I have, I’ve tried, I’ve tried like a dozen different keys, different resin keys, and finally found one that works well with backlighting and that I really like, so now I have to replace all of the tab, caps lock, shift control, um, so that they’re uniform and my keyboard looks right and my whole bottom row. [01:06:28] Brett: Uh, like function control option command is going to be these glowing yellow Manta keys. They’re like amber colored. It’s going to be a cool keyboard, this ultimate hacking keyboard. But then, then I bought more [01:06:42] Brett: that we’ll [01:06:42] Christina: Yeah, we’ll talk more. I want to hear about it. I want to hear about like, like, what type of boards are you doing and like, because, because I, I went down this rabbit hole and I didn’t like do the full soldering thing because I was like, I don’t want to solder that much. Um, But I did that like a couple years ago, and I’ve definitely spent [01:07:00] my fair amount of money like on keycaps and shit, but yeah, I’m very interested in hearing, um, and I still watch a lot of the key, like, video, like, well not keycap, but like keyboard YouTube content. [01:07:11] Brett: I thought I, I won’t go into depth, but I thought I knew what switches I wanted for this one. I’m building this Sophie that I’m building, and then when I got into going to purchase them, I realized there were like a dozen that I had never even heard of, new ones from like Gator on, and so I ordered a 100 switch tester, um, that comes with like, uh, double shot key caps and everything. So you can really test how things are going to sound. Um, so I’m waiting until I get that before I decide how to finish this keyboard. [01:07:48] Christina: Yeah, yeah, I definitely want to talk to you about that next time and I want to link to what keycap or what switch tester you got because I have, I have like, this is where I kind of run into things because I kind of know like what switches I know [01:08:00] I like and I kind of stick with them and then new ones come out and I’m like, How do I even test this? [01:08:08] Christina: So, and how do I, like, yeah. It’d be nice if somebody would just, maybe this is what you got, if somebody was just like, hey, here, here are, is a tester that’s pre installed with what we think are like the best switches. Go nuts. [01:08:22] Brett: should be able to order like, Going into it, you know you want clicky, or you know you want silent, or you know you want linear. Like, those are like some basic. So you should be able to order a switch tester that’s just clicky, or just silent, and, and just test out, you know, the clickiest of clicky, um, keys. [01:08:44] Brett: That would, that would save me some time. I wouldn’t have needed a hundred switch [01:08:47] Brett: tester if [01:08:48] Christina: exactly. Yeah, no, that would be nice. And the thing is too, I’m surprised that like that hasn’t been a thing because like in the hobby as it’s known, because like it takes time to get these things and, and [01:09:00] it would be better if like you did just sell like a, a, you know, a cookie switch tester, uh, you know, a silent one and whatnot, because then like, You know, you’d be much more like, like, this could be like a DIY thing. [01:09:11] Christina: That’s one of the, you know, companies, you know, like put together because then like, if you have them, then great, guess where you’re going to go. You’re going to go back to that same place that you bought your, your, you know, um, uh, switch tester from and buy switches from them. Like, [01:09:23] Brett: Yeah, yeah, well, and also they should have different levels of lube on the switches that you can test before you go and lube 50 some switches, uh, because someone told you you should lube your switches. [01:09:39] Christina: cause some are pre looped. [01:09:40] Brett: like a [01:09:40] Brett: lot of work [01:09:41] Christina: It is a lot of work [01:09:42] Brett: some are pre lubed and you can get them lightly lubed or heavily lubed and this feels dirty all of a sudden, I’m sorry. Anyhow, that’ll [01:09:50] Brett: be, we’ll [01:09:51] Christina: we’ll wait for Jeff. Yeah, I wouldn’t. Yeah. I’m sure he’ll have questions too, but no, I, I look forward to going down the keyboard rabbit hole with you. [01:09:58] Brett: alright. [01:10:00] Well, Christina, you got a big week [01:10:01] Brett: ahead, get some [01:10:02] Christina: Thank you, Brett. You too. Get some sleep.

Our hosts talk about hating the city you live in, which muppets would be the best cellmates, anarchy, and Taylor Swift. In this episode, the hosts catch up after a few weeks apart and discuss the possibility of starting a Patreon for their podcast. They also share personal updates and experiences, including losing and finding wallets, dealing with frustrations, and contemplating living in a city they dislike. The conversation takes a humorous turn as they compare themselves to characters from The Muppet Caper and discuss their preferences for jail cell companions. The conversation covers various topics, including the Muppets, space exploration, and anarchism. The hosts discuss which Muppet characters would be best suited for a jailbreak, with Kermit and Fozzie being the top contenders. They also delve into the complexities of Kermit and Miss Piggy’s relationship. The conversation then shifts to the Challenger space shuttle disaster and the flaws in the US space program. They express their preference for funding projects like the James Webb telescope over returning to the moon. The hosts also touch on the concept of anarchy and its potential benefits if people had high morals. The conversation concludes with a discussion about Taylor Swift and the media’s coverage of her. In this part of the conversation, Christina Warren discusses Taylor Swift’s new album and her personal interpretation of the songs. She highlights the anger and unhinged nature of the lyrics, as well as the transparency in Taylor’s storytelling. The conversation also touches on the idea of therapy and how Taylor’s music serves as a form of therapy for her. Brett then shares information about his project called Conductor, which allows users to customize the processing of Markdown files based on specific criteria. In this part of the conversation, Christina Warren discusses the limitations of the Twitter API and wonders if there is a way to automate certain actions, such as launching a browser window in the background to send tweets. Brett and Jeff discuss the challenges of automating actions on platforms like Twitter and Facebook, and the limited access to their APIs. They also talk about other tools and APIs, such as Textra for OCR and transcription, and Texts for managing messages from various platforms. They also mention CurlyQ, a web scraping tool with JavaScript execution capabilities, and SwinSeaN, an alternative to Apple Music for Mac. Show Links 408 Big Bird almost rode the Challenger space shuttle, but his costume saved him Whitey on the Moon The Commander Thinks Aloud The Challenger Disaster “Anarchy is a beautiful thing if people have very fucking high morals.” Conductor MoodBlast! curlyq SearchLink and Google textra Texts Swinsian Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Chapters Transcript I Hate This City [00:00:00] Welcome Back to Overtired! [00:00:00] [00:00:01] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired, a sometimes monthly podcast. I’m Kristina Warren, joined as always by Jeff Severance Gunzel and Brett Terpstra. Hey guys, long time no talk! [00:00:16] Jeff: Hello! [00:00:17] The Time Warp: How Long Has It Been? [00:00:17] Brett: How long has it been? We’ve been off for two weeks, [00:00:20] Christina: No, like, [00:00:20] Jeff: think I’ve been off longer though. [00:00:22] Christina: Yeah, it’s been three or four. [00:00:25] Brett: I have no sense of time. [00:00:28] Jeff: I have [00:00:28] Brett: isn’t, time isn’t real. Time is a construct. I live in the fifth dimension. [00:00:33] Jeff: Okay, that’s fine. That’s fine. Um, mute him. [00:00:43] Brett: That’s rude. [00:00:44] Jeff: I was just kidding. [00:00:46] Brett: Rude. [00:00:47] Diving Into Mental Health and Podcast Sustainability [00:00:47] Brett: Um, so should we start with a, a brief, a contained mental health corner? [00:00:55] Christina: Yeah, it’s been a while. I’d love to like hear from everybody, see how everybody’s doing. Cause um, [00:01:00] uh, just, uh, we’ve all had stuff going on. Um, and also the podcast market is kind of trash right now, but mostly we’ve all had stuff going on. So we haven’t talked to one another in a while. I would [00:01:11] Exploring Patreon and Merch Ideas [00:01:11] Brett: really, we should test the waters with a Patreon and just see if our listeners want to support the show. Um, if you’re listening and you would be willing to pay a Small monthly fee, uh, to support the show, please write in, let us know, um, contact us on any of the various social media services, um, uh, because it would be a far more sustainable, uh, source of income than the fucking ad world right now. [00:01:43] Brett: Well, [00:01:45] Christina: I think, for, well, no, not I think, I know, there’s no I think about it. Like, if we’re taking money from anybody, we’re, like, at least, speaking for myself, [00:01:53] Brett: with Patreon you can also, you can also set it up so that people pay when you publish. [00:02:00] Uh, so like, uh, like Amanda Palmer does it, like you only, if you’re on her Patreon you can only pay when she releases a song. Uh, which she does regularly. Um, but we could just charge people when we release a podcast, which would still give us the ability to take a week off if we needed to, uh, without feeling, um, like we were screwing people over. [00:02:24] Brett: So yeah, we’ll look into it. Also, I am, I forgot to show you guys this, but, uh, we are going to launch some merch on Key Public. Um, I have some designs done, but I. I don’t know if you guys will love them or not. I might have to try again. I’ll show you them after the show. Um, if, if we get the go ahead from all three co hosts, um, check, uh, check the show notes for a merch link. [00:02:53] Brett: Anyway, should I kick off the mental health [00:02:55] A Light-Hearted Take on Money Laundering [00:02:55] Jeff: hold on, I have a, I have a question. If we start doing [00:03:00] Patreon, is that an opportunity for me to launder some of my extra money? [00:03:03] Christina: Yes. [00:03:04] Jeff: Like the way they did in Breaking Bad to, you know, for Walt’s donation website. Okay, cool. [00:03:10] Christina: 100%. No, I mean, like, I mean, I will say that we should probably, if we do decide to do this and you decide to do that, that we’re going to need to go back and edit this episode so that, like, any comments about the money laundering are gone. Which means, like, if you’re listening right now to this, you are hearing something that potentially might be deleted later. [00:03:28] Christina: So, you know, save on, save, save, save [00:03:32] Jeff: but I gotta clean my money. Somehow. I gotta clean it. I’m just sittin on it, it’s, this Zoom background is fake, it’s, if you actually were looking at my background, it’s just stacks of cash. With like a single sheet over it. [00:03:47] Christina: Stacks on stacks on [00:03:48] Jeff: Well, I’ll look into that some more. Do you think anybody does launder money through Patreon? [00:03:52] Christina: Oh, most definitely. [00:03:54] Jeff: Oh. I’m upset my family’s so tired of me talking about money laundering. I’m obsessed by all the ways [00:04:00] that people launder money. [00:04:01] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I mean, look, look, they do it through gift cards. They do it through, I mean, you know, Bitcoin, whatever you have to do. I have to think that like Patreon and things like that are, are a source, right? It just depends. [00:04:11] Jeff: chips. I see you, Donald Trump. [00:04:15] Christina: probably just has to depend on like, okay, like the only thing with something like Patreon is You’re, you’re giving up like whatever fee you’re giving up to like launder the money and then you’re also paying the Patreon fees. [00:04:27] Christina: So I guess you just need to like, you’d probably need to have like a high volume, um, to be able to like make it work. Otherwise there are probably better ways, ways to launder money. Um, she says as if she’s some sort of money laundering expert. I’m not. I’ve just [00:04:41] Jeff: We’ve all seen Ozark. [00:04:42] Christina: I was going to say, I’ve seen Ozark. [00:04:44] Christina: I’ve, I’ve, you know, seen a bunch of other heists types of things. Watch Breaking [00:04:48] Jeff: Ozark, which has, which has the most amazing, uh, like quick brief on money laundering that he gives, I think to his kid maybe, or maybe no, no, he’s just narrating it. [00:05:00] It’s early on. And it’s like the, the, the footage you’re seeing is like actual money and actual laundry machine, which is actually part of his process to sort of age the money. [00:05:10] Jeff: Anyway, um, that’s not my mental health check in. It’s definitely not yours, Brett. Uh, so, um, yeah. See you in jail. [00:05:19] Mental Health Corner: Road Rage and Wallet Woes [00:05:19] Brett: I gotta tell you, so this is officially mental health corner now, but, um, I think it was last week, like I said, no sense of time, but, um, Elle and I got up early to go for a walk in the, uh, wildlife refuge, not too far away from us, um, but it was early, and I’ve been sleeping until like eight lately, which is, uh, Weird for me, but if I get up before then, I, I am crabby. [00:05:48] Brett: Uh, and I got up before them on this fateful day. Um, and, uh, I was driving us to, we were just leaving our little neighborhood, uh, [00:06:00] which is on a two lane street. And someone came up hot on my six. Um, just riding my ass, which was annoying, but. I intentionally went exactly the speed limit, kind of to piss them off. [00:06:14] Brett: Um, and, uh, then they, it’s a double yellow line, uh, at a blind curve, and they try to pass me. And my brain’s like, oh fuck no, so I gun it. And we’re like racing down this two lane road into a blind curve and they give up and they pull back in behind me. And I roll my window down so I can more easily flip them off when, uh, when they do eventually pass. [00:06:44] Brett: Uh, which happens and we flip each other off and like, my adrenaline’s up but I calm down, like, I let that kind of thing go very quickly, it’s like, fun in the moment, uh, but, in the meantime, Elle is scared shitless, um, [00:06:59] Jeff: Elle’s in [00:07:00] the car for this? [00:07:01] Brett: yeah. L’s in the car for this, which normally, you know, for this kind of thing, I’m driving alone. [00:07:07] Brett: But L is in the car, and they’re scared shitless. Um, and, and they’re screaming at me, Brett, no! What are you doing? What the fuck? No! And I’m not listening, I’m just saying. And so anyway, it takes, it takes them a long time to calm down, which involves like shaking and tears and like, I really upset both their nervous system and just their emotional state of being. [00:07:35] Brett: Um, and I was so, I felt so stupid because it would have been so easy to just be like, Hey, look at this fucker. And let it happen, uh, but instead I, I had to escalate. Um, so I did some parts work after that to, to use IFS speak. Um, and realized there’s this part of me that I’ve always thought was a pretty good part. [00:07:58] Brett: Um, that [00:08:00] believes that society functions better with rules. Um, And it’s often kept me from making some very bad decisions. It also violently reacts to other people breaking social norms and, and laws. Um, like I’m, I’m bizarrely rule based for someone who considers [00:08:23] Christina: I was gonna say, I was gonna say, that’s like, that’s like an interesting, um, thing there. [00:08:28] Brett: but like that, that’s the, that’s the thing is if a rule is in place, like A law in general, whatever. But a rule like, don’t pass on a blind curve, like that’s just for everyone’s safety, that’s for the good of society, and that to me is a rule that should be followed. Um, that is not to say what I did was excusable, um, it [00:08:53] Christina: No, what you did was immature. [00:08:55] Brett: I published, I published a DIMMspiration the same day that [00:09:00] says, I don’t believe I’m a maniac, but then sometimes I do things that only a maniac would do, which is kind of a glaring hole in my theory. [00:09:08] Brett: Um, so anyway, like I, I found that part and I, I talked to it and I’m going to work to kind of let it, Exists without being so reactionary. Um, because I feel like it’s, it’s not a bad part. It just, uh, these firefighters come up. I’m using IFS speak. Anyone who’s doing IFS will know what I’m talking about. [00:09:35] Brett: Everyone else is like, what the fuck? But anyway, a couple other points I want to hit. [00:09:41] The Great Wallet Saga: A Tale of Loss and Recovery [00:09:41] Brett: Um, I lost my wallet a week ago, and for a week I have been just stressed. Even when I wasn’t thinking about it, I realized I was carrying all this stress, uh, because we’re about to leave on vacation, and I don’t have a valid driver’s license, I don’t have any of my credit cards, [00:10:00] um, I don’t even have a health insurance card, and so I’m freaking out a little bit. [00:10:04] Brett: Um, and today was the day. That I was going to start the process of applying for a new driver’s license and hopefully get a temporary one, and then just rely on all of my Apple wallet so I could pay with my phone wherever possible. But I, I, as a last ditch. I retraced my steps one more time, which I had already done once, but I ended up at Walgreens asking the guy behind the counter if they had a loss in found and he like calls to the manager and um, I forgot what my wallet looked like. [00:10:43] Brett: Um, I was thinking of, uh, my previous wallet, which was tan leather. Um, so I described it as a flat tan leather wallet and they’re like, eh, what’s the name on the ID? And I’m like, well, this is hopeful. And I give him my name [00:11:00] and he’s like, just a sec. And he comes out with my. Black wallet and it has my ID in it and looking into it It’s very clearly all the credit cards have been pulled out and it’s got like compartments for each card And all of the cards had clearly been pulled out and shoved back into one compartment. [00:11:24] Brett: Uh, which is weird because the ID is like, clearly visible on the outside. But, all the cards are there, even my, like, uh, gift cards for like, local restaurants. Which could easily have been used by anybody. And I had such a sense of relief. Um, [00:11:44] Jeff: Ehhh. [00:11:45] Brett: like, I didn’t realize until that moment exactly how much stress I was carrying over this, but like, it felt like, it felt like, uh, I’m gonna say like a hit of cocaine. [00:11:58] Brett: Like, just this [00:12:00] like, elation in my body that almost tingled. Um, it was cool. It was very nice. [00:12:06] Navigating Life’s Challenges: From Medication to Moving [00:12:06] Brett: Um, so it, and I’m getting ready for this vacation, so I’m dealing with like meds that would have a refill date right in the middle of my vacation, which makes it like too early to refill before the vacation, and I got to figure out if I can get like a special exception, uh, On a couple of these, including my Vyvanse, uh, which is a super sticky one to get an early refill on. [00:12:34] Brett: Um, so I emailed my doctor, but, uh, she takes Fridays off and. I might not know until Monday, but I don’t leave until next [00:12:44] Christina: that’s, that’s good at least. Um, so, um, I’m really glad you found your wallet. Um, I, I’m also glad that like, you, you realize like what your wallet looks like, [00:12:58] Brett: right? [00:13:00] This whole time I’ve been trashing my house and my car looking for it, because I keep it in this secret pocket on my jeans that’s right above my knee and has a zipper on it. Well, at least on the jeans I was wearing that day. And when I realized it was missing, I realized that zipper was down, which in my head only happens when I take the wallet out. [00:13:25] Brett: And so, so I must’ve left it. Like I went to the drive thru pharmacy and I never would’ve passed my wallet to them. So I figured it had to have been on the car, seat of my car. So I trashed my car looking for it. And, uh, I could have been at my. Desk, uh, and needed to like check my health insurance card or something. [00:13:45] Brett: So I trashed my office looking for it and I, apparently I just left the zipper down and it like fell out at Walgreens, [00:13:55] Jeff: Man, if [00:13:55] Brett: Just so weird. [00:13:56] Jeff: that line was out of context.[00:14:00] [00:14:02] Brett: Left my zipper down and it fell out at Walgreens. Um, [00:14:10] Jeff: So [00:14:12] Brett: but yeah, I, I don’t know. Cause I paid with my phone at Walgreens. So I don’t, I, yeah, I got lucky. I’m, I’m so glad to have it, but thank you. [00:14:22] Jeff: yeah, it’s a little piece of us we carry with us that we forget how destabilizing it is when you lose it. [00:14:29] Brett: Oh my, I’ve never lost my wallet [00:14:30] Jeff: That’s actually what I’m hearing from you. So for me, I lost my wallet. I misplaced my wallet in the house, like, a week ago. And for me, what happens is I just go a little crazy because I lost something. [00:14:43] Jeff: You know? I’m like, I should know where this is. It’s crazy I don’t know where this is. [00:14:48] Brett: my phone, my wallet, and my keys, I never lose. Like, they’re three things that I’m always conscious of. I, like, every time I stand up, I check my left pocket where my phone is, check my right [00:15:00] pocket where my keys and my wallet are. And they never leave my person, and I just It’s, yeah, I felt really, um, destabilized for having lost [00:15:12] Christina: Yeah. [00:15:13] Brett: Uh, [00:15:14] Christina: Well, yeah. I mean, that’s the thing. Yeah. I, I always had like this mantra that I, that I stole from, um, the TV show Broad City, um, that I think, I think how Lincoln says it is slightly different, but in my mind, I always say like phone, wallet, keys, because that would be like a thing that he would always like tell like Ilana to, to check before she would leave. [00:15:31] Christina: And so I always have them like, okay, phone, wallet, keys, phone, wallet, keys. And then sometimes I’ll add in, like, if I’m going on a trip, like Phone, wallet, keys, pills, right? Make sure, like, before I leave, like on a trip, that I’ve got, like, my meds, that I’ve got, like, my phone, my wallet, you know, whatnot. Um, no, I lose sunglasses. with surprising frequency. And, and I’m not talking like cheap sunglasses. I’m talking like, like 200, 250 sunglasses. I once lost like three pairs of Ray Bans in like a six week period. It was obscene. It was dumb. And [00:16:00] like at that point, um, and, and I’d had such a good streak up at that point, I think it’d been years. [00:16:05] Christina: And, and since I’d lost a pair of Ray Bans and then, um, No, I, I, to my knowledge, I’ve never lost my wallet. I’ve lost parts of things before, like I lost my passport card, not my passport. I did, I didn’t bother getting it replaced because it was just the passport card and I was like, fuck it, whatever. [00:16:23] Brett: What’s a [00:16:24] Christina: that is, it looks like a, um, uh, ID, like just looks like a driver’s license and you, [00:16:30] Jeff: Like a global [00:16:31] Christina: Kind of, except it only works in Canada and the U. [00:16:33] Christina: S., so it’s also sort of pointless. But I had it for a while because I didn’t have like a state ID, and so my state ID was expired because it was from a state that I didn’t live in anymore, and so until I got like my ID ID, I would use, I would carry my passport around, but like that’s kind of annoying, so I would carry my passport card. [00:16:51] Christina: I did lose that in 2019, and um, God, passport renewals right now are such a pain in the ass. I’m [00:17:00] still waiting on mine. I, like, sent in for it forever ago. Digress. [00:17:04] Brett: You probably paid for expedited [00:17:06] Christina: I did. I did. [00:17:07] Brett: Expedited is still like a [00:17:08] Christina: It’s more than a month. And the thing is, is that it’s like, I would pay, like, Do I have to fucking go to San Francisco to go to the fucking consulate to get, like, a same day thing? [00:17:16] Christina: Because in New York, at least I could do that. I could pay, like, 600 bucks and, like, get it, like, The next day if you needed to, um, because somebody would actually like hand walk it to the embassy and like, you know, get your docs back. But the thing is, is that like Seattle doesn’t have an embassy. So the closest consulate is fucking San Francisco. [00:17:32] Christina: So anyway, I hate this. I fucking hate this state. I hate this town. I hate everything about it. Anyway, I digress. But I mean, I do. I fucking, I fucking hate living here. I do. [00:17:41] The Seattle Rant: Love, Hate, and Everything In-Between [00:17:41] Christina: Um, that’s my mental health corner. I fucking hate Seattle. Um, [00:17:45] Jeff: You’re like, the Pearl Jam albums aren’t even [00:17:46] Brett: I, I did not know that. I thought, I thought you enjoyed [00:17:50] Christina: no, I don’t. No, I’ve tried. I’ve like, I’ve like kept it in. I’ve like tried for seven years and I fucking hate it. It’s a shitty, shitty, shitty state. It’s a shitty, shitty, shitty [00:18:00] city [00:18:00] Jeff: Why did you, why [00:18:01] Christina: because I got a job. [00:18:02] Jeff: you end up there? Seven [00:18:03] Christina: I got a job. [00:18:04] Jeff: had the job. Okay, got it. [00:18:06] Brett: so, so what’s the plan then? It’s not, it can’t, it can’t be mentally healthy to live somewhere you [00:18:12] Christina: No, but like, [00:18:13] Brett: to use your words. Yeah. Oh, that’s rough. I feel for you. [00:18:20] Jeff: Extracting yourself from a city. It’s not so easy. Unless you’re like 29. [00:18:26] Christina: So, but it’s just, it’s just as expensive. [00:18:29] Brett: they won’t [00:18:29] Christina: No, they would, but I mean, it’s not just, it’s not just about me. Like I have other, anyway, I, I, I can’t, I don’t want to get into all that, but like, it’s, it’s not just, um, my decision. So. [00:18:40] Brett: hate [00:18:41] Christina: Yeah, no, but it’s a shitty, shitty, shitty city. It’s a shitty city full of shitty people with shitty weather, um, and, um, expensive as fuck, um, for not a good city. [00:18:51] Christina: Like, you don’t have the amenities of an actual city, but you pay actual city prices. It’s a fucking shitty place. Seattle fucking sucks. [00:18:59] Jeff: [00:19:00] I think you should take, I think you should take all this to the Chamber of Commerce, because it’s, if they start putting that up on [00:19:04] Christina: Oh, the Chamber of Commerce doesn’t give a fuck. In fact, the Chamber of Commerce, or not the Chamber of Commerce, the, the fucking City Council, the fucking City Council is like so anti anybody who actually gives them money, they’re like, oh no, let’s, let’s, let’s, um, Ray, let’s, let’s create a fucking Uber tax so that every single delivery service has an Uh, has to pay an average of 25 an hour for delivery drivers. [00:19:28] Christina: Which, look, I’m all for fair wages, and I’m all for like, if you want to set the minimum wage a certain thing, fine. I think it’s kind of fucked up that people who dr who like, deliver for DoorDash are getting paid more than like, people who like, work. Like, in, you know, as like, uh, it, it, you know, a lot of people have like, actual jobs, you know, who work in like medicine and, and things like that and, and are, are doing things that frankly, like, take a lot more skill than, um, doing a poor job delivering food. [00:19:56] Christina: Like, so anyway, the, and the net [00:20:00] result is nobody orders delivery anymore because the, the prices are so insane. Um, not to mention the sales tax, not to mention the fact that they, like the, the city sucks. Like they, they just got rid of the gifted program because of equity. Um, which all that means is that all the smart kids who are mostly, you know, uh, white or Asian or whatever, you know, people have money. [00:20:19] Christina: Like the, the, the families that have money are just going to put their kids in private school. And the smart kids who don’t have. Parents who can send them to private school are, like, those kids are fucked. So, anyway, this city sucks. That’s, that’s my mental health corner. Sorry, didn’t mean to take yours over, Brett. [00:20:34] Brett: No, that’s, that’s, [00:20:36] Jeff: segue. [00:20:37] Brett: yeah, I, uh, I, I definitely with your permission, am titling this episode, like why Seattle sucks, um, or fuck Seattle. [00:20:50] Jeff: You just generalize, this city sucks. Then everybody, then everybody comes in wanting to know which city. [00:20:56] Brett: There you go. [00:20:57] Jeff: Minneapolis, Seattle. [00:20:59] Brett: for sure. [00:21:00] But Minneapolis, I love. Do you love Minneapolis, Jeff? [00:21:07] Jeff: I love Minneapolis. Our mayor’s a twerp, but I love Minneapolis. [00:21:10] Brett: I love, I love Minnesota. I love my city. I love my little town. I, it, it hurts my heart to hear that someone has spent seven years living somewhere that they hate so much. [00:21:22] Christina: Well, I didn’t, I didn’t always hate it. And like I said, I’ve like, I’ve like tried, right? Like I’ve tried to like make it better, but it’s just, it’s just shitty place. Um, [00:21:31] Jeff: Where would you, what, where would you live if you had had a choice? New York, yeah, that’s easy. I still have dreams that I live in New York again, but the dreams are just that I’m standing on a sidewalk in New York and I’m the happiest person in the world. [00:21:46] Brett: I’ve only ever, [00:21:47] Jeff: sidewalk. [00:21:48] Brett: I’ve only ever been homeless in New York, but it was still a great city. It was still like one of the best places I’ve been homeless compared to like Baltimore. New York is amazing [00:22:00] for homeless [00:22:00] Jeff: competition in Baltimore. You got, it’s a little more like, uh, you got a lot more space in New York to be homeless. You can find your, your little communer people, or space. [00:22:10] Brett: Well, I, I was fortunate enough to be like part of kind of a punk world that Everyone couch surf like half the kids there were homeless and you could find a couch to sleep on in the summer You could find rooftops that people would let you throw a sleeping bag down and all the bars Offer like free food, even if you’re not buying drinks, not all the bars But if you know where to go [00:22:35] Jeff: Mm hmm. [00:22:36] Brett: It’s actually a pretty easy place to be. [00:22:38] Brett: For me, for me, a white male, it was a pretty easy place to be homeless. [00:22:44] Jeff: always find a stinky couch. Yeah. [00:22:48] Brett: Anyhow. Yeah. Okay. Do you have anything, anything else you want to add to your mental health corner? Christina [00:22:56] Christina: well, the fact that I just went on that unplanned, like, unhinged, like, [00:23:00] rant about how much I fucking hate this city, uh, probably means that I need to talk about. Some of my rage issues with my, uh, with my therapist, um, and it’s not even rage issues. It’s just, I think I’ve probably been bottling stuff up, um, frustrations for various things. [00:23:19] Brett: Yeah. Well, like it’s so fascinating to me that I had no idea you didn’t like Seattle, which means you have bottled that up for a long time. . All right. All right. Jeff [00:23:37] Jeff: Uh, Jeff, well, I added to our, um, show notes to, uh, follow up on anarchy after we’re done with this. I just have a couple of, uh, good bits, good bits from my life about anarchy. Um, very short. Uh, uh, but, um, yeah, I, I’ve embarked on a writing project and, um, kind of a [00:24:00] comprehensive writing project. And, uh, and as a start for that, I kind of started gathering all of my writing over the years, uh, that even have anything related to this topic. [00:24:13] Jeff: And it’s like things I’ve published, things I’ve written and not published, journal entries, like transcripts of interviews I’ve done over 15 years and 20 years, maybe, uh, trainings I’ve given, all this stuff. And, um, and I just, I had it all transcribed. I mean, just did AI transcription. Um, and it was super interesting. [00:24:35] Jeff: Cause like, I basically realized that everything I want to say Or that I think I want to address has been, I have said or written in ways that every time I encounter it, I’m like, Oh, that’s a good point. I agree with that. Oh, I like how he said that. And so, uh, it was really just fun to kind of go through all these years of writing and speaking, um, and just see what has changed and [00:25:00] what threads are like common throughout. [00:25:02] Jeff: Um, Like I actually took, I took whole chunks of stuff from different years and put it through three AIs, through Claude, through, uh, through Gemini and through ChatGPT, just to say like, do a thematic analysis. It’s so interesting to see not just the difference between the three of them, but obviously the similarities, but then also the similarities across years. [00:25:24] Jeff: I was like, okay, I’ve been on this trip for a long time. And, uh, so anyway, it’s just really, that’s been really fun. And, and just a nice way to, I always like my life feels so scattered and my career feels so scattered and, uh, higgledy piggledy as they say somewhere. Um, then anytime I have like a opportunity where I can actually see kind of a straight line through it, even if it’s a curvy thing, um, like a sine wave, you put, uh, that always feels really good. [00:25:52] Jeff: And, um, makes me feel a little more whole. Uh, and so that’s been really nice and really fun. [00:26:00] Um, and, uh, and just, yeah, just an unusual experience. And, and part of how it came to be is that I ended up with a gap in contracts. I am a, we’ve talked about this before, but like I’m a member owner of a collaborative research and evaluation collaborative until last year, I always had these huge contracts for like five years, really great budgets, a lot of Create new things and new ways of handling things. [00:26:24] Jeff: And, uh, then that ended last year and I was in the world of small contracts and that’s just not, it’s not my gift to manage those things properly, to manage the scope of my efforts inside of them. I invariably burn through my budget when the work’s still not done and then I’m working for free, um, just to complete it. [00:26:43] Jeff: But basically I ended up with that, through, what is it? Six pay period gap where I’m making a sixth my normal income, which is not good. Um, I’ve been able to claw back some of it by going out for some new [00:27:00] contracts, but even that, what was cool about this is that, well, one, I reframed it right away. My wife and I had like a meeting where we’re like, okay, so that’s this number of dollars that I have to kind of figure out how to fill because we’re already like, things are tight and we’ve got a kid going to college and we’re paying some of that. [00:27:14] Jeff: And, um, And, and we were, had this meeting where like, I just created this like narrative of like exactly how much money I’m missing per week and what I need to make up and all this stuff. And, uh, and at some point in the like depths of it, where I’m like, okay, when we come out of this right now, we’re just doing the logistics and we come out of this, it’s gonna, it’s gonna sting when the reality hits. [00:27:36] Jeff: But then instead of that, I was like, you know what, this is. It’s a muppet caper. It’s like, they’re gonna close the theater down if we don’t raise 15, 000. Well, let’s go! Woo! And like, someone ends up in jail, but like, Yul Brynner’s the jailer, you know, and like, and, and so once I framed it that way, both of us. [00:27:56] Jeff: And my wife has, tends to be way more, she can get way more kind of anxious [00:28:00] about money than I can for better and for worse. Um, all of a sudden we were like, Oh, that’s great. This is delightful. And, and I went about the work of like finding new stuff. What was great about the opportunity in the end. I mean, I’m in it very much in it is like, it allowed me to shake loose from really what was kind of a work rut. [00:28:18] Jeff: Um, and like, I got really burned out on my Juvenile justice. And then I just took a lot of contracts that were just doing the kind of work that like, wasn’t that exciting to me. There was no room. I really liked to create and there was just no room to create. It was just like, get it done. And, um, and I was like, I don’t want to die like this. [00:28:37] Jeff: Like I’m 49. I’ve, I’ve like managed to stay in a place where like, I’m. I’m basically doing something I really care about and I’m passionate about with a team of people. We talked about this a couple episodes ago, but like with a team of people, I really just like feel a, a sort of like soldier’s bond with. [00:28:57] Jeff: Um, and, and so all of a sudden that was [00:29:00] over and I was like, Oh, this is great. I can just sit here and think about the things that I like to do, the things that I’m good at, and get out of this thing where I’m saying yes to things I’m good at, but don’t like doing. And it’s a huge privilege to be in that situation, but I will mind, mind you, I’m on unemployment. [00:29:16] Jeff: So like, it’s a, it’s a qualified privilege. Right. Um, but it really opened me up. And one of the things was just wanting to do. Some writing, and so now, finally, I’m kind of like, doing that. So it’s like a blessing, the Muppet Caper’s a little bit of a blessing, but I haven’t ended up in jail yet, so [00:29:31] Christina: Well, that’s good. That, that, that’s like an, that, I mean, you know, cause like that’s, that’s the one part of the Muppet caper that like, you know, when, when Fozzie and, uh, and Kermit wind up in jail, uh, you know, like that’s, that’s always one of those moments, you’re like, Oh God, you know, who’s going to have to bail them out [00:29:46] Muppet Jailbreak: A Hypothetical Dilemma [00:29:46] Jeff: Who, I think I know the answer for all of you, but who would you rather be in jail with, Fozzie or Kermit? [00:29:52] Christina: probably I don’t know. I, I don’t know. Cause yeah, Fawzi probably, cause Kermit would be super anxious. Kermit would be [00:30:00] super anxious and that would make me anxious and, and you don’t, like, that’s just not good. But, but Fawzi could be kind of annoying. [00:30:08] Jeff: But I am [00:30:09] Brett: Fa Fa Yeah, me too. Fa [00:30:11] Jeff: That’s what I realized. I thought I was going to choose Fozzie. It was like, I fucking am Fozzie. We’re never getting out of there. [00:30:15] Brett: Fozzy is clearly ADD. Um, and like, I, the way I relate, the way, like, especially in a, um, captive situation, um, I relate best to people that think quickly over, like, the surface without diving deep, and Kermit would want [00:30:35] Christina: would want to dive deep. I, yeah. Now I’m, I’m going to tell you, I don’t know who I’d pick between them. I’d tell you who I would really want. I’d want to be there with Gonzo. Gonzo, [00:30:45] Jeff: Hell yeah. [00:30:46] Brett: Also [00:30:46] Christina: Yes, but he’s like the good A DH adhd, like Fozzie is like, like he’s the a DH adhd, which would be useful in jail. [00:30:52] Christina: Like Fozzie Iss. Fozzie is the type who’s gonna make the joke at the wrong person, like, like the wrong Muppet. He, he’s gonna make the joke to the wrong Muppet [00:31:00] and it’s gonna become a whole thing. Um, whereas, whereas Gonzo is gonna have some good awareness, he’s gonna know the lay of the land. He’s gonna maybe be able to have a scheme of things. [00:31:09] Christina: Gonzo’s, who you want? Kermit, I think. Yeah. Kermit is Kermit’s too anxious. Kermit’s gonna, to your point. [00:31:16] Jeff: But here’s my argument. If we’re only choosing Toon my argument for Kermit is that there’s a show title in here somewhere. My, my argument for Kermit is that, um, you need someone, A, that’s small enough that you can, you know, Push him through the bars, if you have a plan, uh, or the little hole you’re able to dig. [00:31:34] Jeff: But also Kermit is, you never suspect Kermit, right? Like if you could get Kermit on board with some kind of scheme, he could [00:31:42] Christina: no, this is correct. Here’s, here’s my follow up question for you. Do you realistically think that you could convince Kermit to like go along with your scheme? Because that’s my big thing. Like, it’s like, you’re, you’re right on all of that. If you can convince him to go along with you, no one’s going to suspect him. [00:31:57] Christina: He’s going to be able to get through the bars. He’s going to be meek. He’ll be a great [00:32:00] patsy. Can you actually convince him to do that? [00:32:02] Brett: one, no one will suspect him because no one would believe that Kermit would be willing to break the law or do a [00:32:11] Jeff: Here’s the scenario where that works. You’re like a year in, which you don’t want, never happens in the movies. My version of this is it’s just overnight, you know? But if you’re in for a year, you could definitely at some point be like, yo, dude, you know, we could get out of this and Kermit would be like, I’m [00:32:27] Brett: So the argument would be you could do more for society. Um, if you weren’t in this prison, like you could. [00:32:37] Jeff: Piggy has to be in there, too, as a [00:32:39] Christina: Yeah. I mean, well, is she a parent or is she a deterrent? Like, like what, what, like, like how do they feel? Because like, I’ve actually. So [00:32:49] Jeff: can’t he’s smothered by [00:32:51] Christina: I had this realization with a friend, we were talking, I’m not even shitting you, we were genuinely talking about Miss Piggy and Kermit like five days ago. And, [00:33:00] um, uh, I, I think the context was, was, was Taylor Swift. [00:33:03] Christina: I’m not gonna lie. But, um, oh yeah, it was because somebody on TikTok did some sort of Muppet thing. And then I realized, I was like, we were all as kids, like, taught to believe that she sucks and she’s the worst. And now I look back and I’m like, he’s such a fucking asshole. He hates her, he doesn’t want to be with her, he leads her on, she loves him so much, and he’s a fucking coward. [00:33:26] Christina: Like, fuck Kermit, honestly. [00:33:28] Jeff: You belong in jail, Kermit. [00:33:30] Brett: I would put coward before [00:33:32] Christina: both, right? [00:33:33] Brett: he, okay, but he gets like railroaded and he doesn’t have the balls to, to make [00:33:41] Christina: to just be honest. [00:33:42] Brett: doesn’t have the balls to just say, yeah, that’s what I [00:33:45] Christina: but I think make her stop, I don’t like that framing, because I think that it like [00:33:49] Brett: Okay, so I believe, I think we’re saying the same thing, but like, if he was clear, if he was honest with her in a way that he’s too scared to be, [00:34:00] if he were honest, she could make the decision to [00:34:05] Christina: Right, or, [00:34:07] Brett: And that’s [00:34:07] Christina: I agree, but I also think it’s an asshole ish thing to say you know someone’s so into you and you’re a coward and you won’t do it and you lead them on and you don’t, like, that’s an asshole thing to do. You know someone’s, like, desperately in love with you and you’re too much of a chicken shit to step up and do it. [00:34:22] Christina: You’re a fucking piece of shit if you do that. Like, genuinely, like, like, fine, be scared or whatnot, but, like, that’s the most selfish, self centered thing you can do. If you know someone feels about you. a way that you don’t feel about them and you refuse to tell them that because of your own cowardice, you’re a fucking dick, like, male or woman. [00:34:43] Christina: We are, I just, the only, my only quibble was make her stop, because I don’t think that it’s on her to stop, I think it’s on him to make it clear I’m not into you, right? Like, she’s, she’s only doing what, like, you know, she’s doing what she’s doing, but like, she’s, like, [00:35:00] he’s making the decision to continue to go out with her and to be with her. [00:35:03] Christina: So, [00:35:04] Jeff: You know what this is? Wait, wait, you know what this is? This is, this is, I’m just picturing this awesome thing where it’s Christina and Kermit are in jail together, and you’re just giving him this lecture. You know? Like, I love that so much. And by the way, here’s the thing we’re not factoring in. I was thinking limited, like, it’s just Fozzie and Kermit, or it’s us, or one of them. [00:35:24] Jeff: But then you gotta remember that over at the jailer’s desk are all the other Muppets. Right? Like, and that’s a beautiful feeling. And that kind of is why the Muppet Caper felt good in general. It’s like, no matter how crazy everybody is, you’ve [00:35:36] Christina: They’re all gonna show up, they’re all gonna show up, but like an E. [00:35:39] Jeff: They’re all going to show up. [00:35:41] Jeff: Yeah. [00:35:41] Brett: And Jeff, you’re, if, if we have more options than just Kermit, Kermit and Fozzie, Jeff, you are Gonzo, not Fozzie. [00:35:50] Jeff: No, I mean, if I had, I’m saying of the two of them, I’m fuzzy, but I’m definitely, definitely Gonzo. Yeah. I love Gonzo so much. I mean, it’s probably why. [00:35:58] Brett: given all the [00:35:59] Jeff: [00:36:00] Gunsel, Gonzo, Gunsel. [00:36:01] Brett: right? Given all the options, I still think I’m probably Fozzie. Um, I, I’m the guy who makes, who loves stupid jokes, who makes them at inappropriate [00:36:12] Jeff: true. That’s a good point. That is you, you’re fozzy. Christina, what are you? [00:36:17] Muppet Character Comparisons and Memories [00:36:17] Jeff: Like, if you had to self identify as any Muppet. [00:36:22] Christina: I’m trying to think. [00:36:24] Brett: Who’s the stoner chick? [00:36:26] Christina: Yeah, exactly, I was gonna say, yeah, with the braids, I was gonna say, yeah, that, that, that I kind of began to, yeah, I, I, yeah, exactly, that’s, that, that, that’s probably, yeah. [00:36:36] Jeff: Amazing. Amazing. [00:36:38] Brett: Her, her name, I don’t, I don’t remember ever even hearing her name. She was just [00:36:43] Jeff: She hangs out with the saxophone dude. [00:36:45] Christina: she’s, she’s the groupie. She’s great. Um, or, um, [00:36:49] Jeff: Saxophone dude would know all the [00:36:51] Christina: no, I was trying to think like, just like, uh, I, I knew like, uh, um, uh, who, who are the, the, so now I’m just thinking Muppet babies. Who are the twins? I [00:37:00] don’t even remember if they were like actual, like the Muppet characters. [00:37:03] Christina: Um, [00:37:05] Jeff: Muppet babe. [00:37:05] Christina: uh, there was like, there was like Scooter and, um, and, and, and he had a sister. Um, But, but she might have only been created for, um, Janice is, is, is who we were thinking of. Yeah. [00:37:20] Brett: I, I, now that you say it, I absolutely have heard her name. Yes. Skeeter. [00:37:26] Jeff: you know what else you need is the Rolodex of Saxophone Guy. Not that he has a Rolodex, he’s got a big old, like, bunch of papers spilling out of his wallet with the names of exactly the kind of people you need to get out of jail. Skeeter. Scooter [00:37:42] Brett: twin sister is [00:37:43] Christina: Okay. And, um, I, uh, okay. Yeah. Now I would also say Scooter kind of has a thing too, because doesn’t he heckle? I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m one of the hecklers. Like, [00:37:56] Jeff: You know what, you’re in the peanut gallery? I love those two. God, I love those two. [00:38:00] Oh, they’re the best. [00:38:02] Brett: oh, I can’t remember their names. Um, Statler and Waldorf. [00:38:06] Christina: Yeah. [00:38:08] Jeff: Is that their name? You know what’s funny? I don’t think I ever realized their names and I was in love with them. I mean, it was just, well, think about that, what that layer of the show gives you, right? They’re also like, what did people say about Han Solo? Like he’s the character in Star Wars that’s looking at the whole movie and he’s a stand in for you going like, when it’s stupid, you’re like, he’s like, this is stupid. [00:38:26] Jeff: And I feel like those guys are the ones that allow you to pull out of just the wackadoodle world of the Muppets and be like, no, actually this is crazy. I love [00:38:34] The Legacy of Jim Henson and the Muppets [00:38:34] Brett: Did I ever, have I ever told you, like, I grew up in a house, we were only allowed to listen to classical music. Um, and then my parents let me get a little, like, record player, suitcase record player. And, and I got a Muppet Baby’s Rocket to the Moon record. And that was, that was the first time I had heard [00:38:56] Christina: my god, [00:38:56] Jeff: That’s the [00:38:57] Brett: Um, I’m like, I’m like, [00:39:00] Maybe five years old and had never heard just like a backbeat before. And all of a sudden I hear Rocket to the Moon and it opened my eyes to all of the music that I love today is, is, was inspired by Muppet Baby’s [00:39:19] Christina: amazing. I mean, honestly, like, Jim, Jim Henson, I, I am so mad that, like, he didn’t just fucking go to the doctor for his, um, pneumonia and that he died so young because, like, between, [00:39:31] Jeff: Oh, is that why he died? [00:39:32] Christina: he had, um, he was sick and, like, if he’d gone to the fucking doctor, like, they would have been able to, like, because he was sick for, like, a while, like, like, a week or two, and, like, if he’d gone to the fucking doctor, like, it became a bacterial infection and killed him, and if he’d gone to the fucking doctor, like, he would have been fine, but he didn’t. [00:39:46] Christina: So it was like really sad. Um, that was like my first like celebrity death. I was like five or six and um, I like had the people magazine that he was on the cover of with Kermit like for, for like my whole life. And, but, but that was [00:40:00] like devastating for me because Sesame Street was like my first fandom and um, and, and by extension the rest of like the, the, the, you know, extended Muppet universe. [00:40:10] Christina: Um, but, uh, Yeah, like, they did great shit. Like, they were really genuinely punk in a way that was fun and like, it was [00:40:19] Jeff: Ugh. They were [00:40:20] Christina: so good. And then you had like the the mishmash between like the genuine like children’s television workshop stuff, which was about like teaching preschoolers, but then you have like the adult oriented but still safe for all ages like Muppet Show and and kind of you know the mishmash in between and like you have like these genuinely like hippie kind of like punk guys, you know, like being fucking puppeteers. [00:40:42] Christina: And, and, but, but so cool. And genuinely, [00:40:47] Jeff: And what’s, like, the amazing universal truth you learn from the Muppets in 5 minutes is everybody’s messy. [00:40:54] Christina: yeah, everybody’s messy. Everybody’s a little bit of a monster. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s great. Um, I have to say, [00:41:00] like, the, the highlight, like, of my, like, life was, um, I got to meet Carol Spinney, who is, who is Big Bird and, and, and Oscar. And, um, and, and I, um, Got to like, basically like, I had just come off of a red eye plane, so I like, literally like, I’d flown from San Francisco to New York, and then I didn’t even go home. [00:41:17] Christina: Like, I went straight to the office, and they had a closed set because he was there, and they were kind enough to let me come and meet him, and I sobbed like a freaking baby. baby with that man. I was like, thank you for my childhood. I also met the guy who played, um, Bert, um, at a different occasion. I had like a similar experience. [00:41:34] Christina: I didn’t cry quite as hard. And he wasn’t even my Bert. Like he, he, he was, he was like, he, he, [00:41:39] Jeff: That’s He’s not my [00:41:41] Christina: but he, um, [00:41:42] Jeff: So many [00:41:43] Christina: Right? He, uh, he, um, he was like kind of a, I think like an assistant for, um, for, you know, the, my Bert, um, but he took over the role like in, in the, um, uh, mid 90s and, um, nicest guy, like nicest, nicest guy.[00:42:00] [00:42:00] Christina: Uh, everybody I’d met associated with Sesame Street was great. And, and obviously the Muppet crew is very closely related to all of that. So, you know. [00:42:11] The Tragic Challenger Space Shuttle Disaster and Its Impact [00:42:11] Jeff: Do you know that Big Bird was supposed to be on the Challenger, uh, space shuttle that exploded? [00:42:17] Brett: What? [00:42:18] Jeff: put a link in the show notes. I only learned this, I learned this from watching, uh, uh, For All Mankind, the Apple TV show, but I just, I looked it up and the thing that, this is what’s so goofy. So the thing that saved them was that the costume is too big, but here’s two things about that. [00:42:33] Jeff: One, did Spinney? Like, I feel like, I mean, I. It makes sense, but like, but then also you can’t just like find someone who has a smaller kid. The point was the symbol of Big Bird, but Jesus, I, there’s no thank God [00:42:46] Christina: Right. Right. Wish it was a t shirt. [00:42:48] Jeff: there’s no thank [00:42:49] Christina: No, but, but like, but it would have, [00:42:51] Jeff: can, but just imagine this alternate history where Big Bird, actual Carol Spinney Big [00:42:56] Brett: but for those of us who are like in second grade, [00:42:59] Jeff: [00:43:00] was in [00:43:00] Brett: At the time. Um, yeah, that makes sense. Uh, like I was, I was, it was surreal to me. Like our class had it running. We had the TV in the classroom and like the tragedy happens and it was surreal. If you had said that Big Bird had also died in that, it would have [00:43:22] Christina: I was gonna say. I was going to say it’s already one of the most tragic things. I was, I was too little. I was two when that happened. And so, um, I don’t have any memory of it. Um, what is fucked up is that when they had another, like the, the next space shuttle launch or whatever, which, which took place, I think in like 89 or something, um, they showed that in school, which in retrospect, I’m like, why would you do this a second time? [00:43:47] Christina: Right? Like you already knew what happened. Cause like the thing that’s heartbreaking about. Like what you have, what happened with you, Brett, and it happened with my sister too. Like she was, they all watched it in school. Like the whole thing is they sent a teacher to space and she went through the training program and all of that.[00:44:00] [00:44:00] Christina: And the woman who was her alternate actually then went through the full, full, full space program and like became an actual astronaut and actually, and actually did orbit, um, and, and go on, um, you know, um, uh, a number of missions. Um, and she was inspired to do that because of, What had happened and she’d been also a teacher. [00:44:17] Christina: Um, but like, because they’d had a teacher in space, like that’s why it was a thing where like everybody was watching, you know, not just the family, but like her, her class, like all little kids, like they, cause the whole thing, I mean, that was also sort of the tragedy. They pushed for them to go when the conditions weren’t good and the rocket boosters were frozen because of all the fucking publicity. [00:44:39] Christina: Because they were like, we, we, we can’t lose this again, we already had to cancel once, we can’t do this again, it’s too important, we got, we gotta go. And like, nobody fucking cared about the fact that like, you know, okay, cause, cause it’s one thing when, not to say that it’s ever, um, okay when, when there are space disasters, but like, it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit different when it’s a civilian involved, [00:45:00] right? [00:45:00] Christina: Like I think that it’s like a, it’s a, [00:45:01] Jeff: Yeah, you came up through the military otherwise, you’re like, you’re deep into, [00:45:05] Christina: you, you know that there’s a, you know that there is a big risk, right? You know that this is not like getting on an airplane. Um, but that’s, that’s not how they sold it to civilians or to the public. And then they didn’t do the work. Um, there’s a, there are two great things on that. [00:45:20] Christina: There’s the, the Netflix, like there’s like a three part documentary on the Challenger thing, but there was, um, a made for TV movie that the BBC and I think, The Discovery Channel, like, joint ventured, um, called, uh, let me find this. Uh, it was, it was a narrative thing. The Challenger disaster, um, that, uh, goes into a lot of the details with that. [00:45:44] Christina: And, uh, cause Richard Feynman like led the, um, the board that did the investigation that basically, you know, Castigated them and called them into account. And it turned out, this only came out after she died, but Sally Ride had been one of, um, the informants, um, that [00:46:00] got, like, um, him a lot of, like, the inside papers about how many things NASA, like, rejected and, and whatnot. [00:46:07] Christina: And it’s one of those things where, like, it’s not a conspiracy. Like, there’s actual, like, documented stuff of all the fucked up shit they did. No, but the reason I say not a conspiracy is because some of the stuff that you see, you know, that the government did, like, it, it does almost speak to it. seem like fake. [00:46:22] Christina: You’re like, there’s no way that they would, they would make these decisions. Oh no, they did. [00:46:26] Critique of the US Space Program and the Value of Space Exploration [00:46:26] Christina: Um, and, and it’s, it’s, this is one of the reasons why I kind of have a hard time I guess, like, defending the US space program. Like, I’m fine if, if, honestly, I’m okay if private companies want to do space exploration. [00:46:41] Christina: Um, but I’m kind of like, like, I don’t know if I, people are like, oh, we need to give NASA all this funding. And I’m like, do we? Do we? Because honestly, like, as an organization between that and Columbia, like, there’s a, there are, you know, massive histories of them just not doing due diligence or giving a fuck or doing the right things. [00:46:58] Christina: And yet they’ve been given, you [00:47:00] know, trillions of dollars to do this. Over, you know, uh, 60 years. So, like, I don’t know, like, do we actually need to, uh, pur pursue, like, you know, space stuff? Like, it’s great, and it’s a great scientific thing, but I’m kind of, I’m also kind of like, the government really has fucked up a lot, so. [00:47:18] Brett: So, I think, I think things like the James Webb Telescope are more important than going back to the moon. Like, We’re not, I don’t know what we gain. I’m sure there are reasons that they want to get back to the moon, but I don’t know them. All I know is like James Webb telescope, I guess, like what we’re reliving the [00:47:42] Christina: so. [00:47:43] Brett: race again, [00:47:44] Christina: No, I agree with you. [00:47:45] Brett: Like, the James Webb Telescope is providing so much more interesting and useful, like, in the field of astrophysics, the amount of information we’re gathering about the beginning of the fucking universe, um, [00:48:00] is more important to me [00:48:01] Christina: No, I completely agree. And that, like, I think is where the funding should go. And I guess maybe, probably, to go back on what I was just arguing, there’s probably an argument to make that you can’t get the funding for that unless you have, like, the pomp and circumstance of the space stuff. Which, fair. But, I also still feel like, you know, I, like, I [00:48:20] Brett: What if, though, what if it were a mission to Mars? Would you be interested in [00:48:26] Christina: Yes, but, but again, like, I think that’s, that’s a completely different thing, right? And, and I think that’s one of those things where, you know, now that the technology is what it is, like, it would be such a long time before we would do a manned mission. Like, we would be doing unmanned things and whatnot, right? [00:48:41] Christina: Um, versus, you know, Like, when they’d sent, you know, the Challenger, you know, in, in, um, you know, 86 or whatever to, to go, like, what, what we were doing, we, the only reason they did it was because they wanted to send civilians into space. Like, there was, there was nothing they were getting of [00:49:00] value out of that mission. [00:49:01] Christina: And, and the, the, the shuttle was already not, you You know, it was already kind of like not doing super well and they, there were some problems with, with how it was designed, but like, yeah, no, I think, uh, um, eventually a man’s, you know, mission to Mars, 1000 percent would be in favor of looking at that. But like, I, I’m not as anti private companies getting into some of this because I’m like, A, let them pay for some of it and do some of the, take on some of the risk and whatnot. [00:49:27] Christina: Uh, and B, I’m just kind of like, I’m with you. Like I’d rather. spend our budgets on telescopes and, and, you know, rovers, [00:49:36] Brett: If. If, [00:49:37] Christina: oh, we’ve got to go back to the moon. Fuck off. [00:49:41] Brett: Musk and Jeff Bezos want to, tomorrow, launch themselves on a manned mission to Mars, I’m all in. Fucking go for it. It’ll be, what was that [00:49:52] Christina: Yeah, yeah, exactly. [00:49:54] Jeff: Yeah. [00:49:55] Christina: um, the, the, um, except it wouldn’t be because they would be Sadly, I think [00:50:00] they’d be smarter than that, right? Like, the submersible thing, what we wound up learning, was that the foremost expert in that entire field, like, in the entire world, is James fucking Cameron. [00:50:13] Brett: Ha ha [00:50:14] Christina: Like, genuinely, like, that man knew more than anybody else, like, and he was smart enough to not, to not. Well, not smart enough. I mean, I’m sure they were legal and other requirements, but like, he didn’t talk about it until they, uh, officially confirmed that it had exploded underwater. And that, that was the sounds they were hearing were not people knocking, but, but, you know, they had already perished and he’d already known that. [00:50:34] Christina: And so he then like got a hotel room and like just did a media blitz, like talking to every single like television outlet and newspaper and explaining how all this works. And, and you realize, oh, okay, this is a rich guy. But he’s actually also genuinely the foremost expert in how these things work. And, and when he outlined just like how badly that whole thing was from the get go, you’re just like, holy shit. [00:50:59] Christina: Like [00:51:00] this is, this is dumb. [00:51:02] Jeff: He’s like, I watched Leo die. [00:51:04] Christina: Exactly. [00:51:05] Brett: ha ha. [00:51:06] Jeff: just a quick thing, cause I know we gotta get Taylor, uh, and I just want to say two greatest songs about the space program, Whitey on the Moon by Gil Scott Heron, The Commander Thinks Aloud by The Long Winters, which is a song that still makes me. Oh, so before you, I mean, listen to it, but if you want, listen to the song Exploder first because it’s an unbelievable introduction to that song. [00:51:29] Jeff: I put it in already and I put the [00:51:31] Brett: Oh, okay. [00:51:32] Jeff: But the song is truly a song that I get goosebumps and tears every time I hear it. Um, incredible. Whereas Whitey on the Moon, I’m just like, mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm. [00:51:41] Exploring Anarchy, Personal Security, and Societal Issues [00:51:41] Brett: Do you wanna, do you wanna quick hit your Anarchy follow up before, uh, before we do this fuckin Taylor? [00:51:49] Jeff: just, I was just, I was reminded of a quote from a believer article I read like 15 years ago and I went and looked it up and it’s this guy in a pacifist commune in like Denmark and he says, [00:52:00] Anarchy is a beautiful thing if people have very fucking high morals. Um, and then the other, the other bit is like, I sometimes think, I’m not an anarchist, but I definitely, uh, like modeling ways that, uh, where we don’t have to rely on the authorities that, uh, that our, our lack of high fucking morals make possible. [00:52:21] Jeff: I mean, it’s so much more complex than that. Right. But like, I have this thing where like, if I, if there are kids walking down the street at night, trying doors on our cars. First of all, I. I generally believe that it’s like an unwritten contract. If you leave your door unlocked, it might get messed with. I know that’s a very controversial feeling. [00:52:38] Jeff: Um, but, uh, last night, so I usually go to the window and I just whistle happy sounds and then they, they run off cause they’re very confused. But last night I woke up and I could have sworn I was hearing someone downstairs like banging around or something. And, you know, and maybe I’m just, Too old at this point to grab whatever highly insufficient weapon is nearby and like charge down the stairs. [00:52:59] Jeff: And so instead [00:53:00] I put my iPhone, I put Welcome to the Jungle on as loud as possible on the kitchen, uh, home pod. [00:53:06] Brett: ha. [00:53:08] Jeff: Cause I just felt like if that came on and I was breaking into a house, I would get the fuck out of there. Cause I don’t know, is this like the, you know, like a WWF, like walk up music, like what’s happening? [00:53:17] Jeff: Right. Uh, so I put it really loud. And then after a little bit, I just backed it down real slow. And then I watched my ring camera to see if I flushed anyone out. But it was the wind. [00:53:26] Brett: So, I will say that with age, a lot of my anarchist ideals have, um, tarnished, faded, um, but I do believe that a lot of crime would be solved by giving people a Basic, um, things like healthcare, a universal living wage. Um, it just reduced the poverty level. Um, a lot of the things that people are like, Oh, people are awful. [00:53:55] Brett: And, and, and no one like we could never sustain this [00:54:00] if. Everyone were comfortable. I think it’s a slightly different story. I don’t want to get into it. I [00:54:07] Jeff: Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. Yeah. [00:54:08] Brett: Um, but, uh, but yeah, okay. Let’s, let’s hear about Taylor News. [00:54:14] Jeff: Yeah. [00:54:14] Taylor Swift’s Latest Album: A Deep Dive into Heartbreak and Anger [00:54:14] Jeff: Walk us through what this means to you. We know it’s like a cultural thing. Cause it’s, it’s, she’s a cultural thing. Holy shit. Still happening. Now we’re getting the saturation articles. You knew it was coming. Uh, it’s the, the, the laziest, the laziest kind of journalism. Um, [00:54:29] Christina: When the New York Times is literally [00:54:30] Jeff: but you, [00:54:31] Christina: and TikToks, like, in their article about Is she Is she overexposed? I’m like I’m like I’m like, really? Really? Um, okay. So So [00:54:39] Jeff: Okay. So you, but you’ve been waiting on this thing. It lands. Tell us about it. Your relationship to this thing. [00:54:45] Christina: Girl needs to go to therapy, but I am so fucking glad she doesn’t. Like, she, she famously, like, told the new, well, not maybe famously, but like, she, she told Rolling Stone, and, and last time she did an interview with him, that she’s like, no, I’ve never done therapy, and like, I don’t need to, or maybe she didn’t say I don’t need to, but she was like, I, [00:54:59] Jeff: It’s like, I’ve gotten [00:55:00] really rich [00:55:00] Christina: well, I mean, maybe that’s, like, you know, I, I don’t think it’s that, No, I, oh, I, oh, I know, I know, I know. [00:55:05] Christina: Although it was funny because I made a joke on Twitter about that and I had people who totally didn’t understand the joke and people were like, no, everyone needs therapy no matter how, no matter who they are. And I’m like, you completely missed the point. And then you had other people who was like, well, she’s clearly doing it because she makes money off of it. [00:55:19] Christina: I’m like, fuck off. I’m not saying that. I’m saying like, if you look at the lyrics on this album, like it is unhinged, like, like she is like unhinged on main, like, like she is like sharing shit that like you should never share in public about the things that she’s feeling. [00:55:33] Jeff: if I’m not mistaken, she had basically already decided not to release this or she just, you know, she had a chance. It was back in the queue, right? Like, is this [00:55:40] Christina: No, no, no, no, no. This [00:55:42] Jeff: okay. Sorry. [00:55:44] Christina: but she’s a liar. She claims she’s been working on this for two years, and I don’t know, maybe, maybe like, maybe instrumentals and things have been already percolating. I think most, based on the subject matter, most of this came together between August and, um, you [00:56:00] know, when, when this album was released. [00:56:01] Christina: So, um, because, because almost all the songs, like, It’s, okay, so, a few things. First, she announces the album, and it’s a surprise, and we’re all like, what? And she’s like, it’s called the Tortured Poets Department, and we’re like, Oh, is that a dig at your ex boyfriend, Joe Alwyn, who, um, you know, was, was part of a group chat that was called like the, the, the Tortured Men’s, you know, Department or something? [00:56:24] Christina: No, [00:56:24] Jeff: Nah, no relationship. [00:56:25] Christina: it actually turns out not, not so much. Yeah, actually kind of, because it turns out, I think he gets one, maybe two songs, um, on the album, which, oh, also, it, there are 31 songs. She released one album, um, at, you know, midnight Eastern time. Um, and, and then there was like. Four different bonus tracks on different vinyl variants because she does that insanity, um, and greed, which I participate in, so I’m guilty of it, but it is too much Taylor. [00:56:54] Christina: Like, honestly, you need to stop. Um, but then at, then at 2 a. m. she [00:57:00] announces 11 p. m. my time. She’s like, oh, by the way, I actually made this a double album. Here are 15 more tracks. [00:57:07] Jeff: So it’s like a two hour [00:57:09] Christina: Yeah, but the whole thing is 31 songs in two hours and five minutes. It is, it is a lot of Taylor. Um, [00:57:16] Brett: So, so before anyone even had a chance to finish [00:57:19] Christina: you, you, you, you. You’d listen to it and you, you, you’re absorbing it. You’re trying to figure out what this is about, right? Because you’re still absorbing it, but you’ve got, it’s been an hour between maybe if you, you know, started listening and stopped. You’ve had like an hour, but you’re still absorbing it. [00:57:36] Christina: You still don’t know exactly what you heard. Plenty of people have gone to bed, which fair, right? And then she’s just like, no, here’s 50 more songs. Um, insanity. But the thing is, and this is. Why I kind of love this record. It’s really, it’s received, I would say, it’s been polarizing, um, the, the reception. I actually really like it. [00:57:57] Christina: I, for a lot of reasons, I think that, [00:58:00] um, sonically, uh, it’s very much in the vein of evermore and folklore with some of the, um, kind of sensibilities from Midnight’s. I didn’t really like Midnight’s as a record, her last record. Um, I liked, um, the 3am tracks, um, and I liked, um, uh, like the, the lead single Antihero. [00:58:17] Christina: Um, and I liked the song Mastermind, but a lot of the songs, I just, it didn’t connect with me because it didn’t totally feel authentic. It felt like, and now I think it comes through, that’s probably exactly what it was, but it felt like I was like, I don’t know, man, like this, this just feels like she’s Holding something back, she’s not maybe being like the, the, the Taylor we, we know and love. [00:58:37] Christina: This is much more A, in my Sonic Wheel game, because it is again, very much like Vocalore and Evermore, which I, which I love and, and read. It’s a heartbreak album, it’s an angry album. She’s fucking awesome. Pissed. She’s so mad on so many of the songs, which is great. But again, it’s like the unhinged mental illness. [00:58:53] Christina: Like she’s just not even holding back, which is kind of remarkable because like, just as an artistic statement, [00:59:00] you have the most famous person in the entire world, who’s yes, known for diaristic content and whatnot. And, and she’s obviously played into this, but like everybody’s for, for years, try to figure out like, who are these songs about? [00:59:10] Christina: And then she plays coy, which is bullshit because she feeds into it too. But like, you know, she’s trying to kind of be like, Oh, I’m not going to tell you who it’s about, or I’m going to try to limit this. And then she even released some albums, which she claimed were, you know, largely fictional. In this album, [00:59:24] Jeff: and the poor, and the poor three candidates who it is not about when she doesn’t say what it’s about. They’re like, I don’t think this is Travis Kelce. He’s like, everything’s fine. [00:59:32] Christina: In this case though, there’s really no question. The majority of the songs are about Maddie Healy from the 1975, who she was in a relationship with for like, a month. Um, but apparently, based on the text, uh, and by this case I mean, you know, the, the, the lyrics and whatnot, that’s how I’m referring to the text, the text implies they’d been, Well, we all knew that they fucked in 2014. [00:59:55] Christina: We all knew that. But it seems they probably were [01:00:00] texting and friendly and like, had a flirtation while she was still with this other guy. Um, and then by the time she broke up with that guy and she got together with Mattie Healy, like, he, like, Went full on where he was like, oh, I’m so into you. I love you. [01:00:13] Christina: This is great and whatnot And then he just kind of got canceled while he was with her. She didn’t care Uh, what she says as much like literally in the lyrics. She’s like fuck all of you fans who are telling me uh who to date like there’s a line where she says, you know, like, um, uh, like, uh My name is mine to destroy or something like that. [01:00:32] Christina: Um, I need to, I need to find it. Um, uh, but, but, uh, um, the, the, the lyrics on this, um, some of them, uh, probably like the New York Times says she needs an editor. That’s, that’s not wrong at the same time. [01:00:45] Jeff: It also means nothing coming [01:00:47] Christina: true, but also, I, I, I love that she didn’t have an editor because genuinely, like, I, this is, in some ways, what’s kind of remarkable, like I said, is she’s not being coy at all. [01:00:59] Christina: Like, [01:01:00] everything is incredibly, incredibly, um, like, transparent about, like, what this stuff is about. And, um, She just goes off, like she admits she was like, you know, like, um, I, I, you know, made me want to die. Like I, I, I wanted to, to kill myself because, uh, like for, you know, because of what you did to me. [01:01:21] Christina: Like, it’s just like, it’s, it’s a lot. It’s, it’s really, Really, um, I love it for, for just that alone. [01:01:32] Jeff: a question it raises for me. If you, if you inspire two hours of hateful verses, are you still a muse? Do muses, do muses, is that, does that count as a muse? Like, could he say like, I’m her muse? I am right now her muse. [01:01:49] Brett: I believe, I believe the [01:01:50] Christina: Okay, this, this is, this, this, this was the lyric I wanted to say. I’ll tell you something right now. I’d rather burn my whole life down than listen to one more second of all this bitching and moaning. [01:02:00] I’ll tell you something about my good name. It’s mine alone to disgrace. I don’t cater to all these vipers dressed in empath’s clothing. And then she does, she has a song that is very clearly about Mattie Healy called, um, uh, The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, which is the angriest song she’s ever put out. Like it’s, it’s way worse than Dear John, which I didn’t think was possible. Um, let me just find this. Were you sent by someone who wanted me dead? [01:02:30] Christina: Did you sleep with a gun underneath our bed? Were you writing a book? Were you a sleeper cell spy? In 50 years, will this all be declassified? And you’ll confess why you did it and I’ll say good riddance. Because it wasn’t sexy once it wasn’t forbidden. I would have died for your sins, instead I just died inside. [01:02:47] Christina: And you deserve prison, but you won’t get time. You’ll slide into inboxes and slip through the bars. You crashed my party in your rental car. You said nor Yeah, you said normal girls were [01:03:00] boring and you were gone by the morning, you kicked out the stage lights, but you’re still performing, but, but like I would have died for your sins instead I just died inside and you just, and you deserve prison, but you won’t get time. [01:03:13] Christina: Like holy fucking shit. [01:03:15] Jeff: Jeez. Uh, what is the great Nico Case line, The next time you say forever I will punch you in your face? I feel like we’re in that [01:03:25] Christina: completely are. Like, it’s just, it’s like, it is basically, we all thought it was going to be, fuck Joe Alwyn, the album. No, it’s not. Like, he, I think, gets two tracks and it’s relatively private as their relationship was. And most of this is just, she got taken for a ride. She even says in one of the things, like, I, you know, I should have seen this coming, you know, I should have known better. [01:03:50] Christina: But like, girl went through it and then just decided. Yeah, fuck it. Again, rather than go to therapy, I’m just going to release a two hour and five minute album and get [01:04:00] it all out on main and make no pretenses about who this is about. Like, I have no idea how she’s going to, like, incorporate some of this into her tour. [01:04:07] Brett: So, what, what do you think the album about Travis will be like? [01:04:13] Christina: So he did get, [01:04:16] Brett: I mean, he’s obviously gonna hurt her. [01:04:17] Christina: probably going to get hurt him [01:04:19] Brett: she seems to [01:04:20] Jeff: sports metaphors are so, so [01:04:23] Christina: and her, okay, and she already has a few. So she has a song about him called So High School, which is sort of sweet, but the lyrics are not some of the best. Um, [01:04:34] Jeff: It’s a warning shot to him, it’s just like a [01:04:36] Christina: no, it’s not. It’s not. It’s a sweet. [01:04:38] Jeff: I don’t even hate you [01:04:39] Christina: no, it’s a sweet song. Here’s the thing. I think Travis Kelce, I think she’s gonna hurt him. Uh, I, I think that, I think he’s gonna be a Taylor Lautner who gets like a, a, a back to December style song. [01:04:49] Christina: Cause the thing is, she, she has terrible taste in men. She likes assholes. She really, really likes assholes. [01:04:55] Brett: I didn’t, I thought, I thought you would fight me on that if I said it. [01:05:00] Um, like, just, it seems to me, like, I don’t know anything about Travis. Kelsey, is it? [01:05:07] Jeff: Oh, I saw him drunk after the Super Bowl. The second you saw him drunk at that, like, trophy ceremony, I was like, Oh, this guy’s a fucking problem. [01:05:15] Brett: But I know from her history that she chooses It’s almost like she chooses guys she will eventually write songs about. Um, [01:05:25] Christina: she’s just attracted to a certain type of guy, like, Who, I, you know, is probably not gonna be into her the same way that they’re, you know, that she’s into them, to be honest. This is kind of how I read it. But anyway, like, [01:05:40] Jeff: it, could it be that she’s a super intense partner? [01:05:42] Brett: ha [01:05:43] Christina: is my point. This is my point. I think you’re absolutely right. I think that she’s a whole fucking lot. [01:05:47] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [01:05:48] Christina: like on, on this, on this album. So one of the, one of my favorite tracks on the album is the second track is the title track, The Tortured Poets Department. And it’s kind of, you know, thinking about like talking about kind [01:06:00] of like the early days of their relationship and whatnot. [01:06:02] Christina: And, um, but also a little bit I think kind of written like after it was over. Um, and um, The Bridge is really great. Um, sometimes I wonder if you’re going to screw this up with me, but you told Lucy you’d kill yourself if I ever leave. And I had said that to Jack about you so I felt seen. Everyone we know understands why it’s meant to be. [01:06:23] Christina: Because we’re crazy. [01:06:26] Jeff: she get ahold of my [01:06:27] Christina: Right? Totally. Totally. Like, [01:06:31] Jeff: That’s mine. [01:06:31] Christina: totally, you know, but like, but even put that out there that it’s like, no, no, no, I felt seen, because I too would kill myself without you, and you’re like, oh my god, girl, girl, chill, but also thank you for not, like, thank you so much for never going to therapy, thank you so much for giving us this very public dissection of a relationship that the public hated, and she basically tells them, we hate you, or not, not that we hate you, but I hate you for [01:06:55] Jeff: she goes, if she goes to therapy, if she goes to therapy, it’s going to be like Bob Dylan’s [01:07:00] Evangelical [01:07:00] Christina: fuck no. Yeah, Taylor, stay away. Never go to therapy. Never do it. [01:07:04] Brett: I, I don’t know. I don’t, like, listening to that stuff, all I can think is, she could solve this with a little therapy, with a little internal work, like, and that, that makes it hard for me to listen to it when all I can think of is [01:07:21] Christina: No, and you’re not wrong. Um, and, and that might not be for you. I think that, like, sonically, like, some of the, I think, again, I think you would actually like the album because you liked Folklore and Evermore, and Aaron Desner does a lot of the tracks. Um, I would say the back half especially is, is gonna be more your bag. [01:07:36] Christina: Um, although I do like some of the Jack Antonoff songs. Um, There is this song that she has called I Can Do It With a Broken Heart that is kind of upbeat, but it’s, um, it’s going to become a, it’s, if they release a single, it’s going to be a hit. We’re all going to hear it everywhere. But, um, I relate to it very, very much. [01:07:53] Christina: Like, the, the whole conceit of the song is that she’s listening to stuff inside her ear as she’s performing on the heiress [01:08:00] tour. And the whole thing is, is basically, like, I can do my job, I can do this whole Taylor Swift thing, even when I’m suffering, even when, like, I’m in pain, even when I want to die. [01:08:09] Christina: Okay. I can still make it look like everything is fine. And, um, like the, the, the pre chorus, uh, is, um, um, like, uh, cause I’m a real tough kid. I can handle my shit. They said, baby, you got to fake it till you make it. And I did. Lights, camera, bitch, smile, even when you want to die. He said he’d love me for all his life. [01:08:32] Christina: Um, and, and then, um, it goes on from there, but then the chorus is, I’m so depressed. I act like it’s my birthday. Every day. I’m so obsessed with him, but he avoids me. Like the plague. I cry a lot, but I am so productive. It’s an art. You know you’re good when you can even do it with a broken heart. And I, as, [01:08:52] Jeff: I was really hoping fart [01:08:53] Christina: right? [01:08:54] Christina: That would have been great. That would have been good. But no, I pers [01:08:58] Jeff: could, she could pull that [01:08:59] Christina: [01:09:00] But I personally, like, as somebody who is incredibly good at appearing fine when I’m absolutely not, I’m like, oh no, this is going to be like my new, like, Go to, like, before you go do something and you feel like you want to die song. [01:09:13] Christina: Um, not healthy. [01:09:15] Jeff: Yeah. I’m sorry. Actually, I’m sorry. I stepped on that. Cause you were landing the thing that you’re saying is like, you’re [01:09:21] Christina: I, I, [01:09:22] Jeff: fart in there, which is, [01:09:24] Christina: no, but, like, you’ve been taking, like, broken heart part. Like, no, but, like, but, like, the, the line, like, I, I, I’m so depressed that I act like it’s my birthday every day. I’m like, that’s That’s so, that’s so relatable. But yeah, no, I mean, but I, I hear you, Brett. She could solve so many things with therapy, but I’m personally glad for the art that she doesn’t. [01:09:43] Christina: Um, also she has enough resources. Well, I mean, I have a feeling the reason she probably doesn’t have a therapist is she’s like, can I trust anyone? And it’s like, girl, just pay someone a million dollars a year to be your therapist and your therapist only. [01:09:58] Brett: I mean, to be [01:10:00] honest, putting out the song she puts out is therapeutic on its own. And I have a feeling, I have a feeling she works through a lot of problems. It’s just that she goes and repeats them. [01:10:15] Christina: that’s the thing, right? I mean, and she even says, like, she said, I think, so the final song is called, um, on this very long album, it’s called The Manuscript, and it’s actually a great song. Um, and, and one of the, um, the, the final things is, um, um, The only thing that’s left is the manuscript. [01:10:35] Reflecting on Artistic Ownership and Evolution [01:10:35] Christina: One last souvenir from my trip to your sh uh, from my trip to your shoes. [01:10:40] Christina: Now and then I reread the manuscript, but the story isn’t mine anymore. And like, that’s kind of like what she’s always said, is that like, the songs start out as hers, and then when she performs them and puts them into the world, they become everyone else’s. And then other people can interpret them. [01:10:54] The Emotional Journey of Taylor Swift’s Performances [01:10:54] Christina: So I think you’re right, like she works through this stuff and like, you know, she used to, she used to cry performing All [01:11:00] Too Well live, like during the Red Tour. [01:11:02] Christina: Now she does a 10 minute version of that like every night and like the entire crowd screams this very, very sad, like torturing, amazing, like her best song ever, Far and Away. I think the, the five minute version is better than the 10 minute, but regardless, like it’s her best work. And like the whole crowd literally screams for 10 minutes. [01:11:21] Christina: Every single lyric, and like, everybody in the audience is feeling it, and it’s an amazing experience. But like, at this point, there’s no way she thinks about Jake Gyllenhaal when she sings that, right? Like, she’s, you know, thinking about the audience, and [01:11:33] Brett: Yeah. [01:11:34] Christina: it’s not her song anymore. [01:11:34] Brett: not [01:11:35] Christina: And everybody relates to it so much because it’s like this perfect, perfect, perfect song about like, being 21 and having your heart broken, like, devastatingly for the first time. [01:11:44] Anticipating Future Performances and Album Tours [01:11:44] Christina: Um, but, um, it will be interesting to see how she performs these. It’s too long, she couldn’t do a tour just to this album. It’s also too depressing, and it’s too angry, but I’m curious to see like, what song she does perform. [01:12:00] You know, if she brings this set into the Ares Tour, I have a feeling she will. But, um, yeah. [01:12:06] Christina: I do feel like she [01:12:08] Jeff: All the lights go out and it’s just a single red [01:12:09] Christina: Yeah, I mean, or just like, because again, like the anger in some of these songs is just like, so, like, stark. [01:12:17] Critiquing and Appreciating Taylor Swift’s Anger in Music [01:12:17] Christina: Like, there’s another song called, like, Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me, where she goes after her, her favorite, um, villain, where, well, she does her favorite thing where she’s Taylor Swift the victim. [01:12:25] Christina: I’m rolling my eyes, but, but it is what she does. Um, and then she goes after the media. Which is like, okay, I get it, but also, you know, but I, but I love her, but I love her, but she, she, it’s this fucking angry. It’s so angry. And it’s like, it’s, it’s, again, it’s, it’s unhinged. Um, it’s, it’s great. So I, anyway, I, I’ve talked enough about this. [01:12:51] Personal Recommendations and Creating Playlists [01:12:51] Christina: I do actually think, um, you’ll, you’ll like, uh, especially like if you listen, like I say, like track, like, uh, uh, [01:13:00] 9 through, like, 24, Brett, I think. Um, no, the whole, because the whole thing is 31 songs, so if you just go, like, Or, I might, I might even just, I might even, like, make you a playlist, like, of songs I think Brett will like. [01:13:15] Jeff: Oh, yeah. [01:13:16] Brett: Okay. I would [01:13:17] Christina: I’ll, I’ll do that too. [01:13:18] Brett: I’ll do it. I’ll do it. [01:13:21] Jeff: Awesome. [01:13:22] Transition to Tech Talk: Introducing Conductor [01:13:22] Brett: Do we have time for Graptitude or does everyone need to get going? [01:13:26] Jeff: I’m okay, but I [01:13:27] Christina: No, go on, go [01:13:27] Jeff: Oh, go ahead, Christina. Do you have time? Uh, I would love Brett for just a quick bit on Conductor, before we [01:13:33] Brett: Oh, sure. I’d love to. [01:13:36] Deep Dive into Conductor’s Features and Capabilities [01:13:36] Brett: Um, I published a project on Thursday. Um, that is, so my, my app Mark, which is for previewing Markdown files and it updates every time you save, et cetera, et cetera. Um, it has the ability to handle custom processors. Um, and. That makes it possible to, instead of it’s [01:14:00] built in, uh, it has multi markdown and discount built in. [01:14:04] Brett: But if you wanted to use, say, Pandoc or Cramdown, you can do that with the custom [01:14:09] Jeff: Wait, has that always been true with the Pandoc thing? Or is that That’s not what, uh, Conductor Fuck me. Okay. [01:14:14] Brett: So, so, um, like you’ve always been able to specify one custom preprocessor that happens before the Markdown conversion, where you can like mock, like, for example, Wikilinks, you could turn Wikilinks into links back to whatever application you’re creating them in. And then the processor, which would Markdown or. [01:14:39] Brett: Whatever, ASCII doc, whatever you needed into HTML. Um, but you were only allowed one. And if you wanted multiples, you would have to keep changing your custom pre slash processor. So I built this thing called conductor, which serves as. You just set your custom processor to [01:15:00] conductor and then with a yaml file you can create conditions like text contains this string, or text contains this regex, or extension is this, or path contains this, it even has tree contains which Uh, you can use to search for the existence of a subdirectory or file in any, any parent directory of the current file, which for like, for testing, if you’re in an Obsidian vault, Obsidian puts a dot Obsidian folder in the root of the vault. [01:15:33] Brett: So if you put tree contains dot Obsidian, it will find that in the, in any parent directory, no matter, No matter how many subdirectories deep you are, it’ll find the obsidian directory and let you know that you’re in an obsidian vault. And then I recently did a pull request side note, um, that got accepted to a Full on Obsidian to Marked [01:16:00] preprocessor. [01:16:01] Brett: Um, and now it can create like links. Uh, it can turn your wiki links into links back to Obsidian documents and it can handle tags and everything. So anyway, Conductor makes it easy to branch. It’s a train conductor. The idea is like a train conductor, uh, and, and the, they’re called tracks and you can set up tracks and you can nest tracks and you can use Booleans and you can create basically a hundred different processors based on. [01:16:33] Brett: The content that Mark is loading. Um, and it will, it will always use the correct processor if you write your predicates well. Um, and yeah, uh, it solves, like I’ve always meant to add like a whole Xcode style, multiple, you know, Processors with predicates and everything, but I get bogged down every time every time I try to implement it So this [01:17:00] is this is my alternative and you don’t have to know Scripting you could just have if this file exists in this folder then run it Through Pandoc with these arguments. [01:17:12] Brett: Or if this file contains YAML that has comments are true, then run it through Cramdown. Um, you don’t have to write a single script. All you have to do is edit a YAML in natural language. So that’s [01:17:26] Christina: That’s so cool. [01:17:27] Exploring the Potential of Custom Processors and Community Contributions [01:17:27] Christina: So do you have like in, in your repo anywhere, do you have any place, um, where either you have any like set, you know, uh, YAML files or where other people can have their own to contribute? [01:17:39] Brett: Yeah. I, not yet. Um, I am publishing, I will be publishing my, uh, my tracks. yaml file, uh, in the repo. Um, I’m still kind of refining it, like. I, my, I had a custom processor for Mark that forked on all of these different, [01:18:00] because Mark sets environment variables for like extension and stuff. So my very long Custom processor forked on at least 10 different, um, uh, kind of criteria and ran different processors. [01:18:15] Brett: So right now I’m splitting that up and like, I have, I have like, if it’s, if it’s a readme. md file, Run GitHub, pre-processor and then run GitHub processor. If it’s from Bear run this processor, if it’s from obsidian, run this process. So I’m, I’m building that out right now, and once I have it finished, I will publish it. [01:18:37] Brett: And all of the pre and post pros processor scripts, um, it’s, I don’t have like a plugin architecture built, so it doesn’t make sense to have [01:18:46] Christina: No, that makes sense. That makes sense. But yeah, I was just. [01:18:48] Brett: But, but I, I, I will make a directory. People can pull requests, uh, anything [01:18:53] Christina: awesome. Yeah, I know. Cause I was just thinking, I was like, cause I’ve always, um, I knew about the custom processor part of Marked. I never [01:19:00] used it in part because, um, of what you said, like you can only kind of have one and, and it’d be one of those things like, okay, well then I got to have to like maintain all these things, you know, and it’s just like, okay, I’m in more, most, and the thing is, is that in most cases, um, what you have built in is, is fine. [01:19:19] Christina: So, um, Like, unless it was kind of like a very specific one off thing, uh, like, I don’t think I’ve ever touched it. Um, but this having like, basically having variables that can say, okay, if it has this or, or whatnot, then, you know, it, it’ll depend, like, cause that would be great. Cause like, for me, Like a, a frequent thing is like, I obviously, um, write a lot of things for GitHub and, and, you know, in GitHub flavor markdown, but I also write things that aren’t necessarily going to be published in that style. [01:19:47] Christina: And so that can have like different rules and whatnot. And so, yeah, like, like you said, like having like their read me thing, like that’s, that’s awesome. This is so smart. [01:19:56] Brett: Yeah, I, I think I’ve added, I think I’ve added all the [01:20:00] criteria that you could possibly need to determine whether you were working on a GitHub flavored markdown file for work, or whether you were writing for your blog, for instance. Um, And I think it’s super natural language now, you don’t have to know how to script at all. [01:20:17] Brett: Um, and you can install it as a gem, you just run gem install mark conductor and then, uh, set it up as a custom processor. And I think it’s, I think it will be useful to scripters and non scripters alike. [01:20:35] Jeff: I’m super distracted by two things. One is that you just fucked my afternoon. And the other one is that going back to even something that’s existed, which is the ability to use Pandoc because it wasn’t like named in there. And I never really needed it. I only actually just started. My need for that came up two weeks ago and it wouldn’t have occurred to me to try to figure out how to, you know, have Mark [01:20:55] Brett: Yeah, one of the, one of the most common things I deal with in [01:21:00] Mark support is people who want to use Pandoc with bibliography and [01:21:04] Christina: was going to say that would make sense. [01:21:05] Brett: Um, which, which is possible. Like you could always do that with Mark and I’ve worked with a lot of people to make that, uh, function. This will make that process like you could have multiple citations and bibliographies depending on what project you’re working on. [01:21:24] Christina: No, that’s great. No, and that’s so cool too. [01:21:26] Jeff: Brett Terpstra strikes again! [01:21:28] Christina: really cool. Um, and it obviously has like a, a niche kind of, uh, audience, but we are all part of that niche. And like I said, like once you have that repo where people can do PRs or whatever, like I think that’s where we’ll become really useful so that like people can just be like, okay, I can install this if I need to make some modifications I can. [01:21:46] Christina: Um, but it’ll automatically determine, [01:21:50] Brett: So with stuff like this, like I would love for people to contribute, but it’s stuff like this is tends to be so, uh, personalized and not generalized. [01:22:00] Um, I, I have built, like I have a repo for sharing, um, custom styles from art. I have repos for, um, doing plugins and they get actually very little usage because everyone is designing things that they don’t think. [01:22:19] Brett: Everybody needs. And, and that’s like, for me, like, as, as I got into development, uh, starting in like the year 2000, um, I started learning how to take something that was a hack to, to make something work for me. And through the process of mood blast, actually, I learned how to make personal things generally useful. [01:22:46] Brett: Um, [01:22:46] Jeff: What the hell is [01:22:47] The Evolution of Brett Terpstra’s Developer Journey [01:22:47] Christina: Oh, move last was his, that was OG Brett. No, no, tell him, tell him. [01:22:52] Brett: Yeah, that’s, that’s my, that’s my developer origin story. I wrote a, [01:22:57] Jeff: what, I didn’t come online with you until about [01:23:00] 2008. BADAM! [01:23:02] Brett: app in like, uh, Cocoa and Apple script that could update Facebook and Jaiku and, Twitter, and Addium, and like all of the places you would have a social status at the time. Uh, and, and like half the things that could update are gone now, but, uh, there were a total of 12 different services at its peak that it could update with. [01:23:31] Brett: You could just type in your status and, uh, And hit a button and it would update everything all at once. And [01:23:40] Jeff: looks amazing! It makes me so sad for the way that landscape has changed. [01:23:45] Brett: to, to avoid like repeating yourself, there were all this, there was all this like syntax you could use that would be like, post this to Twitter and post this to Jaiku. [01:23:55] Jeff: Things we Things we know without knowing about the features of something you’ve created.[01:24:00] [01:24:01] Brett: and, um, and that got picked up by David Chartier [01:24:06] Jeff: Yeah, I was just running into that. There’s a lot of Ars Technica stuff around, like, version 2 and 3. [01:24:11] Brett: Yep. And, and he got me my job writing for 2AW and Mood Blast got me into, uh, publicly releasing software. And it was absolutely my origin [01:24:24] Jeff: I love it, and I can’t believe it’s totally alien to [01:24:28] Christina: it was great. Yeah. Cause, cause, um, cause I was already at two, uh, um, but I hadn’t been there very long when Brett joined and, um, but yeah, I knew, um, uh, uh, Mood Blast cause I think 2. 0 would just come out when you, uh, or [01:24:43] Brett: Well, David, David wrote about like, Every [01:24:46] Jeff: Yeah, it really [01:24:47] Brett: I would get a, I would get a two hour article. And every time I published an update, my blog readership, like my traffic would go up and like, it just kept growing. And so I just kept updating cause I had that [01:25:00] like positive feedback loop going [01:25:02] Christina: it was great. It was great. I wish that, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna take us on a detour. I do have gratitude picks, but like, I know that the way that the Twitter API now works means that there wouldn’t be easy ways to do this. Do you think there would be a way to trick something through like, I don’t know, with some sort of, Um, uh, like screen, uh, background, like, kind of process to automate something like this, like, where you could potentially, like, launch in the background, like, a browser window and go into, you know, a, um, the, the status box and enter in the text and, and do something like that, like, do you think there’s any way, I’m not saying you, but I’m saying, like, someone in general could, could create something like that, because I, I, I wish that I had something like this for threads and Twitter and Mastodon. [01:25:49] Brett: yeah. Yeah, well, Threads has always promised to implement, [01:25:54] Christina: Yeah, yeah, [01:25:56] Brett: uh, Pub, uh, whatever, [01:25:58] Christina: are, they are syndicating now.[01:26:00] [01:26:00] Brett: um, Twitter, it, are [01:26:04] Christina: on. [01:26:05] Brett: Okay, Twitter, Twitter’s a black box, um, I, I don’t know if it would be feasible to do, like, a scripted, um, Like Chrome browser that would do it. I, I don’t know, it would be so much hackery to be fair. [01:26:22] Brett: Like at the time Mood Blast [01:26:24] Christina: Right, right, yeah. [01:26:25] Brett: didn’t have an API. Um, and, and it did really hacky curl calls, uh, to kind of like, I hacked, I hacked their submit forms in a way that would let me post, um, now they have a public API, but you can only use it for pages. Or, um, I think it’s only for pages actually. [01:26:50] Brett: And, and Instagram, Instagram only allows posting if you have like, uh, business account, business level account. And all of these [01:27:00] APIs are pretty closed off to the average user, um, in a way that makes it even more difficult than it [01:27:07] Christina: Yes. Yeah. No, I, well, [01:27:08] Brett: era. Um, I would think, I would think if it were possible, [01:27:13] Christina: mean, so I don’t know. Cause I, the reason I ask is, so I use this, um, I use this NPM extension called, um, um, SnapTweet, which will basically take like a screenshot of your, um, uh, tweets. Um, and so what you do is it’s a CLI tool and, um, you enter in, uh, like, you know, SnapDashTweet and put in, um, uh, The URL, um, I actually probably should submit a pull request to, uh, include the x. [01:27:45] Christina: com URLs because right now it’s set up to do, um, it for Twitter. And then what it does behind the scenes, and it’s worked for a long time and he hasn’t updated it in, in years. So it’s, it’s still working is that it basically, you know, launches like a, a puppeteer instance because you already have to [01:28:00] have Chrome installed. [01:28:01] Christina: Um, and then basically, um, we’ll. You know, select in the CSS things, you know, kind of like in the background very quickly. Okay, I’m going to, I’m going to capture, um, this, uh, bit of, of logic and then style it in some ways. And you can, you know, um, with various parameters, you can set it to like, make the width, uh, different and you can make it dark mode or light mode or whatever. [01:28:23] Christina: And then you can also choose like if you, uh, want to do multiple at once and you can even do threads. It’s, it’s very cool. It’s a very, very cool tool. Um, and, and I’ve used it for, um, a long time, um, but like, I’m thinking, okay, if you can do something like that, in theory, and I don’t know, and again, I’m not asking you to do this, but I’m just kind of thinking out loud, like, there might be a thing where, if you already had a, a cookie, Installed or whatever, where you might be able to, you know, uh, program in, okay, this is where the, the tweet box is, and this is where the, the send thing is. [01:28:55] Christina: And so I can go ahead and just, you know, programmatically put in the text and then [01:29:00] send, [01:29:00] Brett: Have we, [01:29:01] Christina: it out. I [01:29:03] Brett: we, uh, remind me, have we talked about CurlyQ? So, I have a side project, another side project called CurlyQ. [01:29:15] Christina: yeah. We have talked [01:29:16] Brett: web scraping [01:29:17] Christina: tell us more. [01:29:18] Brett: Um, yeah. And, well, in a recent update, I added JavaScript execution [01:29:25] Christina: that’s what it’s using. It’s not using puppeteer. It’s using Selenium. Sorry. Go on. [01:29:28] Brett: So, Yeah, so you can target like a CSS query selector and execute JavaScript on the page, um, from a curly queue call. Um, I don’t know. [01:29:44] Brett: I mean, it’s, it’s just a, it’s a layer above Selenium. So, yeah, I, I’d be curious. Can you, can, will, will Twitter handle, A JavaScript submission. I feel like [01:30:00] if they knew what they were doing, they would deny that [01:30:03] Christina: Totally. However, I also don’t think they have a lot of people who are like, like, who are watching, right? Cause that’s, that’s the thing, like, cause, cause the snap tweet thing, right? Like, and obviously I know it’s different and that’s a much easier thing to do, but it makes me think, but there are some other tools, like, I can’t think of the name of it right now, but there’s like an archive, I think it’s archive box. [01:30:22] Christina: There are some tools that still, even without the API things can scrape tons of tweets and even get like the, you know, the, the text from them and whatnot and, and do it like. Fairly well. And I think that it’s one of those things that’s like, it obviously goes against what Elon is trying to accomplish when he cut off the API, but I also think he just doesn’t fucking know what he’s doing. [01:30:45] Brett: wait, hold up one sec. Wasn’t the, they closed the API. [01:30:50] Christina: Well, they limited aspects of it, but then, but you, but you could still do things. So for instance, you could still have like, you know, Twitterific could work. And the thing is, is that if you were an [01:31:00] individual, like, like, and if you were an individual, You could sign up for one and you could build like, you could have built something like Mood Blast and you could have said okay, as a user you need to enter in your own API key, right? [01:31:13] Christina: You know, you would say I’m not going to do this but you as a user can enter in your own API key, I’ll show you how to set up an app, whatever, fine. Um, When they removed, when they started adding kind of restrictions on that and were like, no, you can only do like a thousand calls or a hundred calls or whatever it is, you know, for, for the lowest tier, like that kind of kill back. [01:31:29] Christina: Cause there was like a cross posting tool for Mastodon on Twitter that, that, um, lived in, it was even a web hosted, uh, there was a hosted version and I even like self hosted my own and I looked at like, well, what would it take to like. Continue to maintain this and people just didn’t want to, um, continue doing it, which is fair. [01:31:46] Christina: Um, but, um, that was what he did is he, he changed it from, okay, like anybody can, you know, still create these things and have like a, a valid free tier to know. Now the minimum amount of money you’d have to spend [01:32:00] would be like a hundred dollars to do anything basically. And, uh, if you wanted to, you know, do something even for the public, um, to be more like. [01:32:10] Christina: It’s going to cost you, you know, enterprise money. So, [01:32:16] Brett: speaking of APIs, did you know that Google has a search API now? Like this was something that was always missing in all of the old, like my, the text, the text mate, uh, The blogging bundle, the blogs, no, it actually used Google, but it would scrape the page for the results and Google made that impossible. [01:32:42] Brett: But I just discovered while working on SearchLink, another one of my projects, um, that Google has an API and I’m doing the thing you said where people, if they want to use my Google integration with SearchLink, which typically uses, um, [01:33:00] Uh, duck, duck go. Um, if you wanna use the Google integration, you have to get your own API key. [01:33:06] Brett: Uh, but if you enter an API key in the config, it can do an actual, like legit API Google search, um, which avoids like paid, uh, or you can avoid, uh, like sponsored links and everything. Um, which is [01:33:25] Christina: think I actually, [01:33:26] Brett: It’s tits as like as the [01:33:28] Christina: I actually did know this only because, so I’ve used We’ve talked about it before. I think it was one of my picks of the week or maybe it was yours Brett, but like, um, because it’s on, um, a setup. It’s called TypingMind. And it’s like, uh, uh, uh, OpenAI or another model kind of front end for stuff. [01:33:45] Christina: And they have extensions now. And one of the extensions is like a web search type of thing or like web scraping thing. And to get that working, you have to set up an API, um, thing in your Google account, [01:34:00] which, um, I went through the process of doing and like, I hadn’t known that like that was going to be, um, yeah, plugins is what they’re called. [01:34:07] Christina: Yeah. So they have like a, um, a web search thing. And to get that working, you need a search API key. And I went and I, I created that and it turned out that I already had something for some reason. So I guess I did know this, but I didn’t. Um, and, but they, they do the same thing that you were talking about where they’re like, this plugin allows the AI assistant to search for information from the internet in real time using Google search, search API key needed. [01:34:28] Christina: So I did know this, but I only learned this like a month ago. [01:34:35] Brett: Nice. Um, okay. [01:34:41] Jeff: Great. [01:34:42] Brett: I think we’re done. I think we’re done with my [01:34:44] Jeff: Gravitude, Lightning Round. [01:34:46] Brett: Yeah. [01:34:46] Jeff: All right. You only say like three sentences or something. I’m just kidding. You can do whatever you need to do. I can’t say three sentences about anything. That was not a real, [01:34:59] Brett: All right. I can [01:35:00] start, I can make it, I can make it real fucking short. [01:35:02] Graptitude Picks: From Tech Tools to Music Apps [01:35:02] Brett: Um, I’m going to pick Textra, um, which I don’t think I’ve picked before, but I, uh, I have a, such a short memory, but it’s a command line utility written in Swift, uh, that interfaces with. Mac OS’s built in OCR and transcription capabilities. [01:35:25] Brett: And, uh, you can basically run Textra on any image and it will spit out the Like ASCII text for whatever text exists in that image. And it is real damn good, um, for something that’s, you know, just built into the operating system, uh, but gives you command line access and it can also like trans, uh, transcribe like MP3s. [01:35:53] Brett: Um, it doesn’t do as good a job with MP3s as like Whisper. Does, um, but it [01:36:00] does a perfectly passable job. And I use Textra every time I publish a DIMMspiration, Textra generates alt tags for the DIMMspirations automatically. And it is, I would say 90 percent accurate, uh, depending on what font I use. If I use a crazy font or I like make it like slightly invisible at the background, um, which I am want to do. [01:36:25] Brett: But, uh, Uh, it will do an amazing job of, of picking up the text and writing my alt tags for me. It’s free. It’s free. Even if it sucks on some stuff, it’s, it’s, it’s worth checking out. [01:36:43] Jeff: I played with that a long time ago. And also on the GitHub repo page, their example is, is using it on the Mueller report, is like, made me feel old. All of a sudden also made me check the change log. [01:37:00] It’s like, um, Well, I can go quick. Mine is this, I actually just changed it to this because of our conversation is texts, uh, which is a app that like, it’s [01:37:10] Christina: it is ADM. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:37:13] Jeff: Audium, how’d you say? [01:37:13] Jeff: Yeah. It’s like, I, I’ve got my, I’ve got all my messages from LinkedIn, Twitter, uh, Instagram, WhatsApp, and you can do Apple messages. It makes me a little nervous. Um, you can do signal. Yeah, but you can, I don’t know. I don’t understand. I heard about this from, [01:37:30] Christina: Um, there, there’s some ways. Yes, it was. [01:37:33] Brett: that’s what Beeper was doing [01:37:34] Jeff: and they got whooshed. [01:37:35] Christina: was the old model was doing exactly what text. com does. And then for they, they started doing something a little bit different for their, um, uh, Android version. Um, when, when the kid reverse engineered the thing is slightly different. [01:37:49] Christina: Um, and interestingly, Automatic who owns text. com bought Beeper and, and, and Eric, [01:37:56] Jeff: Bought the yeah, yeah. [01:37:57] Christina: running the whole [01:38:00] thing. So he’s going to be like text and Beeper basically are eventually going to merge. [01:38:06] Brett: Okay. [01:38:07] Jeff: and it’s amazing because, I mean, like, come on, the LinkedIn messages, like, I don’t want to see them really, but I also don’t want to miss the one or two that I wanted to see. [01:38:16] Brett: I, I check, I check LinkedIn like once a month and, and there will be messages that I missed a month ago, um, that are no longer relevant and would have been nice to see in the moment. Uh, but I never remembered to check [01:38:32] Jeff: I also would have missed this one from Instagram. Hi, I’m Hannah, a girl who believes in fate and the soulmate whom I have been seeking for years, but I didn’t get to meet the right person yet, sad emoji. So I have been thinking this would be fun to send a message. To you, like spinning a wheel of fortune and telling you, I mean, I missed that. [01:38:46] Jeff: Damn it. It came in like two weeks ago. She’s found someone by now. Uh, and also the second I loaded all this stuff in, I had all of my messages going back 17 years for these services. And, uh, and, and it’s, [01:39:00] it’s. [01:39:00] Brett: the search? [01:39:01] Jeff: I haven’t even tried the search because I just needed to make sure I didn’t miss people. Hold on. [01:39:05] Jeff: Let’s [01:39:05] Brett: I would be, I would be, it would be infinitely useful if you could search all of those platforms at the same time with any kind of accuracy. [01:39:18] Jeff: It’s interesting. I have to play with it more. I’m doing it right now. Um, but yeah, so anyway, it’s great. And even the kind of cute thing is even through change logs, they become their own inbox message in the midst of all this stuff. So along with Riley, who’s looking for a soulmate, I’ve got, um, their latest, uh, you know, change log message. [01:39:34] Jeff: So anyway, it’s super cool and you can add signal and stuff, but again, I don’t really understand, well, Brett, you just [01:39:41] Christina: your, uh, [01:39:41] Jeff: old VCR. Error. Video. [01:39:44] Christina: That’s very, very [01:39:45] Jeff: That was amazing. [01:39:47] Brett: I look fine to me, so I don’t know what you guys are [01:39:50] Christina: Um, yeah, no, um, uh, I haven’t used text. com, but I have used beeper for years and it’s the same, well, and it’s soon going to literally become the same thing. So plus one on this, um, [01:40:00] some of the services, uh, uh, the way at least beeper worked, I don’t know if text is the same as that it was using matrix under the hood. [01:40:06] Christina: And so there were some bridges that people made and that’s how signal and other stuff worked. Um, uh, a lot of that stuff is, was, um, Open sourced, and um, uh, I expect that with Automatic being the, the joint owner, um, those things will continue to be, assuming they’re open, will be open. Um, okay, so, but yeah, no, great stuff, and like, I miss ADM every day. [01:40:28] Christina: And I miss OpenAPI’s every day. [01:40:30] Jeff: Oh my god. I missed that cute little frickin, uh, oh god, adorable. That one, if you had that in Cyberduck open, it was like, [01:40:38] Brett: right? [01:40:39] Jeff: like [01:40:39] Christina: It really [01:40:39] Jeff: at a Scottish Fold [01:40:40] Christina: was. Okay, so, so, no, no, you’re great. So my pick, so I was bitching on Threads, which is a terrible platform, I should add. Threads is, Threads is the worst. It’s normies. [01:40:50] Brett: Agreed. [01:40:51] Christina: It’s terrible. It’s normies. So you see like two day old hot takes and like others. [01:40:56] Christina: People are like, well, you just, I, I, I, I don’t see two day old stuff. You’re just not using [01:41:00] enough this and that. I’m like, fuck you, honestly. Um, you have people who’ve never grown up on the internet who then just like, you know, Feel like they should just be responding to, to Rando’s comments and I’m like, this isn’t Twitter and you weren’t raised here and you don’t know the culture and you’re just being dicks for no reason. [01:41:15] Christina: Case in point, I was Sorry, go on. [01:41:17] Brett: Can I? Oh, I was just going to interject. The thing that kills me about Threads is I don’t see the people I follow. It just shows me queer people looking for followers because apparently it’s pegged me as a queer person and all it shows me are people I’ve never heard of, never followed, and, [01:41:40] Christina: No, I agree. The following [01:41:43] Brett: no [01:41:43] Christina: tap on the thing so that you can see like your following thing, like that’s better, but it’s still, but it defaults every single time to, um, to their attempt to, you know, be TikTok, but they’re not as good as TikTok. And also it’s not real time like Twitter is, like even Twitter’s For You page, like it’s, it’s, [01:42:00] It might not be the latest thing, but it’s more relevant. [01:42:02] Christina: Like, Threads, literally, it’s two day old shit that you see. Um, it sucks. Threads, Threads is, is not a great place. But I, but, but, I will say this, uh, the one good thing about Threads is I was I was harassed by a bunch of dickheads who were defending Apple Music, um, on the Mac. Uh, because I, I, look, and I didn’t even say what I really wanted to say. [01:42:24] Christina: What I really wanted to say is that Apple Music for Mac is an abortion of an application. Um, that, that could be a show title. Um, uh, it probably shouldn’t be, but, but that is actually what I wanted to say. [01:42:35] Jeff: But we have [01:42:36] Christina: But Apple Music for Mac is genuinely one of the worst applications that exists on the planet. [01:42:41] Christina: It is a bad application. It makes a mid range service that has good audio quality. Look, I, I, I pay for Apple Music and I use it on, um, my phone, but it’s, it’s terrible on the Mac. Like it is literally, it is fucking awful, especially if you have a decent library size. So, um, Somebody was asking, well, if I want a [01:43:00] local music playback, like what should I use? [01:43:02] Christina: And I had like, um, a couple of suggestions that I was going to give them. And then somebody, I, um, I did some research. I was like, is there anything I’m missing? And I came across an app that I think I checked out a while ago, but I hadn’t checked out in a long call, a long time. It’s called Swensian. And it is basically what iTunes was. [01:43:20] Christina: Before the Apple Music integration, but more modernized and also plays back FLAC and, um, and other types of, you know, files that iTunes never did. [01:43:30] Jeff: Cause Jesus [01:43:31] Christina: and so it’s, it’s 25 as a one time purchase. If you download the version that’s on their website, that’s like a version 2, it, it doesn’t have dark mode support, but if you then press the option key and do check for updates, you can get the beta, um, of version 3, which is updated fairly frequently and like the most recent version I think came out like a couple of weeks ago. [01:43:51] Christina: Um, and that supports dark mode and stuff. It is still a Rosetta app, um, but I haven’t noticed any performance things. So, you know, if you’re a purist for some [01:44:00] reason, like I’m just pointing that out, but it’s, it’s really good. Like if you’re somebody who wants a local music playback for whatever reason, because maybe you’re like me. [01:44:08] Jeff: Flack. I [01:44:09] Christina: that’s what I, that’s what I want. Cause I have, I’m not joking. I have like 80 something gigabytes of, of downloaded, like FLAC files. And so, and I would like to get a Rune, but Exactly. Exactly. And I, and I would like to get a rune or something, but that, that’s expensive. It’s 15 a month. And I might do that eventually, but I’m, but I’m not there yet. [01:44:27] Christina: So in this circumstance, I’m like, okay, actually, um, this is, this is a good, a good thing. So, so Swensian is, is my, um, Graftitude. [01:44:39] Jeff: Awesome. [01:44:40] Brett: Yeah, I’m gonna check that out. [01:44:42] Jeff: ruin. [01:44:44] Brett: I don’t have, as, I don’t have nearly as many local files as you do. I rely mostly on [01:44:49] Christina: but I like having, I’m a [01:44:51] Brett: I, I’m still having, I’m still having that, I’m still having that problem. I, on my Mac, where Spotify, if [01:45:00] I play songs with Spotify on my Mac every 10 seconds, the playback cuts out [01:45:07] Jeff: Oh yeah! I’ve been having that problem too. [01:45:08] Brett: I, I am, I am not the only [01:45:10] Jeff: the problem on my hump pod. [01:45:12] Brett: I’ve been on the forums and Like a bunch and Spotify has like no response to this. Um, it is apparently pretty common, so I can’t use, but what I can do is with my whole loopback setup and everything, I can just, I will stream from my phone or I can have Alexa, sorry, shut up, Alexa. Um, I can have her play. [01:45:39] Brett: Um, using Spotify and it pipes through my computer. And then once a song is playing, Spotify has such good sync between platforms. I can use the desktop app to fast forward and rewind, but the playback is actually coming from my. [01:45:56] Jeff: And the mere fact that that Rube Goldberg bullshit setup [01:46:00] is what you have to do proves Christina’s initial point. Cause this should be really [01:46:04] Christina: Yeah, well, he’s using Spotify, but still, yeah. But [01:46:08] Jeff: I know, no I know, but I do that [01:46:10] Christina: No, no, you’re not wrong. Right? You [01:46:12] Jeff: Apple Music. I go through all this weird shit. [01:46:14] Christina: It is such hot garbage that I’m like, do I wanna launch this on my Mac? Fuck no. Are you kidding me? Somebody was like, I’ve never had any problems. And I have a really large library. [01:46:22] Christina: I have 12,000 tracks and, and dozens of playlists. And I was like, that’s what I [01:46:27] Jeff: Sit down, child. [01:46:28] Christina: dozens of [01:46:29] Jeff: Dozens of playlists? Jesus Christ, how old are you? [01:46:32] Christina: files. And I was like, I was like, that’s cute. I was like. I had more than that on my iPod 20 years ago. [01:46:42] Jeff: I had dozens of quote unquote playlists by the time I was [01:46:46] Christina: to me, I was just, I was like, okay, right. But I was like, congratulations. I was like, that’s not a large library. Oh, I think it’s a large library. It’s actually not. Um, and people were like, well, well, how do you listen to 100, 000 tracks? I’m like, you don’t. But if the whole idea is you [01:47:00] can be a music library, then let me have a fucking music library. [01:47:03] Christina: Don’t make me have to go through. [01:47:05] Jeff: Also, it’s called being a music fan, Sonny Boy Williamson. [01:47:10] Christina: the, [01:47:10] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Can I just say my, my new favorite kind of playlist is I go back on that, [01:47:16] Christina: yeah, yeah, setlist, [01:47:17] Jeff: database site is, which I’m forgetting right now. Yeah. Setlist. And I make playlists that are the songs [01:47:23] Christina: there, there are a couple of apps, there are a couple of apps that actually will do that for iOS, yeah, they [01:47:29] Jeff: Oh yeah. Cause they have an API and they’ll, yeah, yeah. That’s right. That’s right. [01:47:32] Christina: no, totally, I, I used to do it artisanally, but like, when I realized that there was actually like, iOS apps, I [01:47:38] Jeff: No, but why? Yeah. [01:47:40] Christina: so, [01:47:42] Jeff: Yeah, for sure. That’s great. Thanks for that tip. Awesome. [01:47:47] Brett: All right. Wow. We did another two [01:47:49] Jeff: Yeah, but we did it without a guest, and, and with a very contained [01:47:54] Christina: and we hadn’t had an episode in like, a month, so, [01:47:58] Jeff: Yeah, it was a lot. The pipes were [01:48:00] clogged. [01:48:01] Brett: Bring it on. All right. Thanks you [01:48:04] Jeff: Thank you. Get some sleep. [01:48:06] Brett: Get some sleep.

Tech-oriented podcast covers security backdoors, Apple software complaints, custom resin keycaps for mechanical keyboards, challenges faced by bloggers, evolution of content creation, VNC client Screens, remote desktop options for Mac, using Mac mini as a home server, and alternative options for server hosting.

Erin Dawson, fresh off her latest tour, joins the gang to tell tales from the road. Plus the much-anticipated picks of the week! Sponsor Hims is changing men’s healthcare by providing simple and convenient access to science-backed treatments for erectile dysfunction, hair loss, weight loss, and more. Start your free online visit today at hims.com/overtired. Show Links Genital Shame Pittsburgh City Paper review of Genital Shame Genital Shame on Bandcamp ‘Weaponization of 311’: Speculation swarms after Brooklyn’s Saint Vitu… Dimspirations Store Build your own URL shortener Typeface Jupyter Lab Jupyter Notebooks in VS Code Los Angeles Times Jupyter Notebooks Monodraw AppCleaner Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Latent Cheetos Smell [00:00:00] [00:00:03] Brett: This episode is brought to you by HIMS. Stay tuned for more info on how they can help you with men’s health. Welcome to Overtired. We are back. Couple weeks off. I’m Brett Terpstra. I’m here with Jeff Severins Gunsel and Christina Warren and special guest Erin Dawson. Welcome to the show, everybody. [00:00:22] Jeff: WelcomeErinon. [00:00:25] Erin: Thank you, [00:00:25] Christina: Erin. [00:00:26] Erin: Thank you, Christina. Thank you, Brett. [00:00:29] Jeff: I just want to thank everybody. [00:00:31] Brett: Erin, introduce yourself. [00:00:32] Erin: have something to say about hymns first. [00:00:35] Jeff: Hmm. [00:00:36] Erin: Um, I think I know what hymns is. And do they also work for, like, lady boners? [00:00:45] Brett: Well, it depends on the type of lady, I guess. [00:00:48] Erin: Right, well, ladies that could nominally achieve, like, how’s that work? [00:00:54] Brett: That’s a, that’s a, it’s a fair question. Uh, we may have to contact their ad department to [00:01:00] find out how they want to spin that. [00:01:01] Erin: What we may also have to do is start this episode over. I’m so sorry. I probably [00:01:08] Jeff: Whoa, Brett, no, we don’t have to start over, but Brett, did you just play the intro bit? [00:01:12] Brett: no. That was, it’s the same voice. Um, my, my website just generated because the current giveaway ended at noon. So it generated the like this, this giveaway is over post and every time it finishes generating, and this happens to me on conference calls all the time, it, it says in Zarbox voice, bam, generated. [00:01:38] Jeff: Wow, that’s cool. I like it. [00:01:41] Brett: I love, I love Zarbox. Anyway, Erin, Erin. [00:01:44] Brett: Aaron, [00:01:44] Erin: let’s make this about me. Um, hello, my name is Erin Dawson. Full disclosure, I work with one Brett Terpstra. Um, that is what I do for a living, which is to work with Brett. Um, but [00:01:57] Brett: so than you used to. We’ve kind of moved to different [00:02:00] teams, but yeah. [00:02:01] Tales from the tour [00:02:01] Erin: I hate that. Uh, but in my real life, my waking life, my sober ish life, I am a musician, um, and more specifically a black metal musician, uh, with a project called Genital Shame for which I just got back, um, from a tour a couple weeks ago. [00:02:21] Erin: Uh, started in Chicago, played my hometown Pittsburgh, went to Montreal. Baltimore, Brooklyn, Boston, and ended in Cincinnati. And really, like, it was kind of uneventful. Usually with tours like this, you’re spending six hours on average a day in a van with, you know, boys with, you know, may or may not have Stomach issues. [00:02:49] Erin: So that, [00:02:50] Jeff: good smells. [00:02:51] Erin: that could be a, yeah, uh, an atmosphere creates in the van where you look up and you can start to see cloud formation. [00:03:00] Um, but I’m happy to say like, by the end of it, like I want to spend more time with these people. Uh, my backing band is a band in its own right called Stander from Chicago. But when we we’re on the same label, um, so when we tour, uh, they’re my backing band, but, um, yeah. [00:03:17] Erin: Highlights include playing Brooklyn. We played St. Vitus, this I don’t know if you’re familiar. [00:03:23] Jeff: Vitus. [00:03:24] Erin: Yeah, it’s it’s, uh, I don’t know if you’re familiar, uh, Christina, but it’s it’s sort of a, like, metal institution in in Brooklyn. And, like, two days after Genital Shame played, they were shut down. Uh, hopefully temporarily, they still are for noise ordinance stuff. [00:03:41] Christina: Damn. Okay. And like, what part of [00:03:43] Erin: right under the [00:03:45] Christina: What type of, what part of Brooklyn is [00:03:46] Erin: green point? [00:03:47] Christina: Greenpoint? Greenpoint? Okay. So, all right. So it’s been gentrified a lot, but still to get like a noise ordinance complaint, that’s impressive. Uh, honestly, like that’s, that’s, [00:03:57] Jeff: My, my brother owns two bars in [00:04:00] Greenpoint in Williamsburg next to each other and he has to have the neighbors, he has the neighbors numbers on his cell phone. They call him directly instead of a noise complaint and it happens all the time. [00:04:10] Erin: At least, [00:04:10] Jeff: talk them down. [00:04:12] Erin: like, that’s cool to keep the cops out of it, like, directly [00:04:15] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I was [00:04:16] Jeff: That was his thing is he’s like, Hey, can we talk about this? [00:04:20] Christina: Yeah, right before I moved, they, um, there’s like this backdoor area from like this restaurant that was right next door to us, like right next door to us. And I didn’t like mind so much. It’s just that it was like the patio area, like during the weekend, fine. But like during the week, I’m not going to lie. [00:04:38] Christina: Like I kind of felt like I was becoming like an old person because, you know, if, if it’s like two o’clock in the morning. And there’s a backyard full of people just like partying. You’re kind of like, okay, I don’t have any choice here. Like, can, can, can you not? But I still, never in my mildest dreams, like, I could never even conceive of calling, like, the police for noise complaint.[00:05:00] [00:05:00] Christina: Like, it’s [00:05:00] Brett: I have, I have called the front desk. Um, one year at Macworld, uh, Mac, Mac stock, um, I was trying to sleep cause I was resenting the next morning and it was so noisy. Someone was just having a, a riot. So I called the front desk. I’m like, Hey, I’m in this room. Could you please, um, ask the people in this room to quiet down? [00:05:21] Brett: Turns out the next day that it was some of my best friends. Like, at the conference, and I had like, I had called, essentially called the cops on them, which [00:05:31] Christina: Well, I mean, [00:05:31] Brett: I admitted to. Sorry. [00:05:33] Christina: mean, I mean, I mean, the thing is, is like, it’s okay to like, be told to like quiet down when it’s annoying as if somebody asks you if you can quiet down and it’s after like 11 PM and you won’t, then I think it’s like, okay, now you’re a Satan. And now actually like if the cops are called, I’m actually completely fine with that. [00:05:51] Christina: You know what I mean? Like, um, [00:05:54] Brett: you’re out. [00:05:54] Christina: Well, no, I mean, the thing is like, we had an incident, um, uh, where, where I live, I’m like, I pay [00:06:00] way too much in rent for this stuff, but I’m on the seventh floor. The only thing above me is the roof deck. And so we have really high ceilings and there was like a massive party happening. [00:06:08] Christina: And I think like, it was, I was ignoring it. Until I think like 2. 30 and the thing is, is no one’s supposed to be on the roof deck after I think like 11 and, and then, and like they would not shut up and then they were like rude about it and then they were like taunting about it and I was like, okay, I’m, I’m actually going to like file a complaint with the, you know, building that I paid too much money for. [00:06:32] Christina: Um, I think Grant called the cops. I would never call the cops still because, you know. Fuck that, but like, um, also everyone there to be, to be, just, just, just to put it out there, everyone at the party and everyone who is like, in the building is extremely white and extremely privileged, so there’s like, no risk of, you know, all you’re doing is wasting the cop’s time, which, I mean, honestly, who cares? [00:06:53] Brett: Okay, so you played, you played the last show, as far as, as far as anyone knows, [00:07:00] the last show at [00:07:01] Erin: Yeah, yeah. A band called Genital Shame. Um, [00:07:07] Christina: it. [00:07:08] Brett: I, uh, I played a show at a place called Nightingales. I can’t remember what borough it was in. It was Queens or Brooklyn, I think. Um, and they told me the next day that they were closing, um, indefinitely. I don’t know if they ever came back, but as far as I know, at least in the year 2000, I played the last show at Nightingales with the [00:07:31] Christina: Nightingales in Brooklyn, but I probably had it wrong. It’s probably, I’m sure it’s a completely different place, but there was a Nightingales in Brooklyn. But yeah, so, but I’m sure now that was probably a different spot, but congrats, Brett. You, you [00:07:41] Brett: I, that can’t, that can’t be an uncommon name. [00:07:44] Christina: No, it can’t be, but yeah, but [00:07:46] Brett: probably a Nightingale’s in every city. Any other good stories, Erin? [00:07:54] Erin: It ended, the tour ended unceremoniously in Cincinnati, where [00:08:00] undergraduate’s, uh, floor. And I had bruises on my legs for that, from that, for a while. [00:08:08] Jeff: That’s ceremonious. Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh [00:08:12] Erin: bruising ceremony of Cincinnati [00:08:14] Jeff: heh [00:08:15] Erin: Um, [00:08:16] Christina: it’s a new song. [00:08:17] Brett: do you get groupies? [00:08:24] Erin: I don’t, I don’t kiss and tell. Uh, not really. I, I think like, genital shame is, you know, I’m trans. Like, maybe some of the themes in genital shame, uh, are about, uh, being trans, though not really. Uh, but even Even that little bit of, of information does attract trans listeners, um, and there, the trans community is very incestuous, for sure. [00:08:52] Erin: Um, but on the, on the road, I keep, I keep an arm’s length, really, in the green room, in the Greenpoint green room. Um, [00:09:00] but, yeah, yeah, not, not really. I, it’s funny, like, My, I am like quite silly in, in real life, but I, my music is not. So it’s, it’s a hard balance for me to strike. And it’s something I think about a lot. [00:09:15] Erin: Um, like, just like what I say between songs, right? Like the sort of like crowd work you’re doing in, in Brooklyn, actually, uh, before. Our last song, Mike, my guitar player, broke a string and had to change strings on stage right before our last song. It’s just like the, the like, the most nerve wracking gig. [00:09:38] Erin: Um, but like, so I had to vamp for five minutes and like my eyes rolled back in my head and I just like did bits and uh, like I think I even said like, this is like an anxiety dream in real life. Where like, you’re on stage, the lights are on you, many people are looking at you, and you’re expected to entertain, and you have nothing to [00:10:00] say. [00:10:00] Erin: There is no script. Uh, but it worked out. Um, [00:10:04] Jeff: Awesome. [00:10:05] Brett: I used to, if that happened to us on stage, I used to start playing Crazy Train on bass only. Um, and people would be like, yeah, and then eventually the, the string would get fixed or the, the amp would get replaced. And I would stop because I can only get so far using just a bass on Crazy Train. But when you’re dealing with a bunch [00:10:26] Erin: when he played an original. Yeah. [00:10:29] Jeff: Heh heh heh. Oh [00:10:30] Erin: Yeah, that’s it. That’s it for Tor, really. [00:10:32] Brett: All right. That we are on, we’re trying to keep our, our total length down. So that’s, I feel like an appropriately sized tour report. Thank you. [00:10:44] Sponsor: HIMS [00:10:44] Brett: If you’ll pardon the brief interruption, I need to tell you about today’s sponsor. Hey men, sometimes it can feel like we’re too busy to take care of our health problems, but with so much going on, we don’t want to spend our free time waiting around in doctor’s offices and long pharmacy lines. Now you don’t have [00:11:00] to with HIMS. [00:11:01] Brett: HIMS is changing men’s health care, by providing simple and convenient access to science backed treatments for erectile dysfunction, hair loss, weight loss, and more. The entire process is 100 percent online, so you can get a new routine. Improving your overall health faster. [00:11:17] Brett: HIMS offers an array of high quality options, including pills or choose for ED and serum sprays or oral options for hair loss. 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[00:12:21] Mental Health Corner [00:12:21] Brett: Um, let’s do, uh, let’s do a relatively brief mental health check in. [00:12:26] Christina: Okay, I’ll start. I’ll start, um, because I figured that Brett probably has things that he wants to go with. Um, unless Erin, unless Erin, unless you would like to start. Um, okay. So I just got back from South by Southwest. I was in Austin for six days, which, that’s a long time. Um, South by was good. I haven’t been in a very long time and I certainly haven’t been since the pandemic. [00:12:49] Christina: The vibe was kind of weird. I’m not going to lie. Um, It’s big and I know it’s been big for a long time. Um, it was, but, but at [00:13:00] this point, like it, I think it’s like a few things, like they’re, they’re still kind of coming back to the pandemic, figuring out what it is. And then South by like, when you and I used to, did you ever go Brett? [00:13:09] Christina: I can’t remember if you ever, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when we used to go like back in the day, like it started out as a music thing, then it expanded to a film thing, then interactive. It was like this tiny little part that quickly became like the biggest part of the whole show. Then all the marketers took over. [00:13:23] Christina: And then they got like education and health and all these other like little offshoot things, whatever. Um, and, and I stopped going. Um, this time I feel like they don’t know, like it’s too big in, in my opinion to still try to be kind of maybe like through like one like 10 day period because it takes over the whole city and no longer just the downtown area. [00:13:45] Christina: Like you have to like, you know, to go to certain screenings for certain movies, like you have to go like, far away, which sucks. Um, and, and, you know, certain installations and certain like events would be literally all over the place. I feel like, I don’t know, maybe [00:14:00] it’d be better if they used this as a time to, I’m not saying necessarily be smaller, I’m just saying like refocus. [00:14:07] Christina: But it’s not my, not my thing, um, to, to make those decisions. GitHub had a, had a party there, um, which was in a, a, a fun location, like a great location, but also a hard to find location. But that was fun. Um, I saw some good panels. I saw some movies. I did karaoke sober. I mean, I got drunker as it went on, but I had to do it sober to begin with, which was the most horrifying thing in my life. [00:14:30] Christina: So like, um, I, I have so much props for you, Erin, for like going out and doing like actual, like live things, because I realized I was like, Oh, I can’t sing for shit. Like I used to have a decent voice. I don’t anymore. And you’re never more aware of that than when you’re in a karaoke room and you’re sober. [00:14:49] Brett: I don’t remember if it was South By or CES, but I was at a karaoke bar with the N Gadget crew and Tim Stephens did Ring of Fire and [00:15:00] it was so good. [00:15:01] Christina: Oh, he would, of course, he’d be good. [00:15:03] Brett: yeah, and then I immediately followed him trying to do Sweet Child of Mine after a sizable number of drinks, and it went, it, I, it was, I’m still embarrassed, I’m still mortified thinking about it. [00:15:17] Christina: Yeah, I, um, I, I started out with, with, uh, with, with, um, Taylor Swift’s I Knew You Were Trouble, and it, it was, eh, again, like, I can do that song if I’m drunk, uh, or have a little more, you know, like, liquid courage. The lyric sheet was also slightly off for, for how they were doing, like, the, the pacing on some of the, the line hits, which, like, fucked me up. [00:15:39] Christina: Um, once I had, like, To vodka cranberries. Uh, and I was still sober. I did Madonna’s Material, girl, that went much better. But then like, as the night went on, like it was fun, but just I guess my mental health, my mental health’s. Okay, I’m, I’m still a DHD as fuck right now. Um, but it was nice to be around people, which is good for me.[00:16:00] [00:16:00] Christina: And, um, I was able to, uh, actually run into some former in Gadget people from way back in the day. Mostly they were at the Verge now. Um, when I was at, um. South by, uh, the first day when I got in, I wound up having drinks with a lot of people at The Verge and the editor in chief of Wired and, um, some other folks. [00:16:18] Christina: So that was nice. But yeah, no, I mean, sorry, go on. [00:16:22] Brett: I’m sorry, just while we’re still talking about South By, was it well attended? Because, uh, both Brian Albee and David Hamilton posted pictures of their plane into Austin and it was completely empty. at the very beginning of the conference. [00:16:39] Christina: so that’s the interesting thing and that’s I think why I have a hard time kind of like grappling like grokking like What was the attendance because I think they were trying to say, oh, you know There’s a hundred thousand people or something and and I wouldn’t doubt that But because it’s spread all over the place, I don’t know. [00:16:55] Christina: Like I got in on Thursday night and my, I wasn’t able [00:17:00] to get a direct flight. So that says it right there. Um, and I, and I only got in as late, as early as I did because it was 800 cheaper for me to stay in a hotel longer, [00:17:10] Brett: Mm [00:17:11] Christina: which, okay. Um, so it was one of those things that was like, well, you know, if it’s going to be cheaper for me to stay two extra nights, I’m fine. [00:17:21] Christina: Um, but, um, some panels were empty, some were full, like OpenAI did. Um, uh, they’re, they’re, um, uh, the, the guy who runs product for ChatGPT, who was very good. Like they should put him on stage a lot more because he was very reassuring and, and a very good speaker and like nice. And, and he was great. Like that was in one of the main ballrooms in the commission center. [00:17:44] Christina: And it was not only packed, there was like overflow. So, and that was on, um, Um, Monday, so I think it depends. I think, I think, uh, busier over the weekend. But, but it’s hard because some of the panels were empty, some things were totally full. [00:18:00] Um, screenings for movies, because I had a platinum badge and I wanted to go to movies, was kind of a pain. [00:18:06] Christina: If you were able to get like, they had like, kind of like an express pass. everything, kind of like the, the Disney genie pass where as long as you requested, you know, at a certain time, you could, you know, kind of guarantee your spot, but that was kind of hit or miss. So then you have to like show up and basically like, like an hour before the screening starts to get your little ticket and then wait around. [00:18:26] Christina: And like, that’s fine. Well, but the thing is, is that like, it depends on what theater you’re at. Like if you’re at the normal Alamo draft house on Lamar, then like, okay, whatever. But like if you’re, you know, trying to do other things, it just sort of like, kind of fucks up, like. your plans to get around. But anyway, my self, my, my, my mental health update is that I’m still really ADHD. [00:18:46] Christina: Um, but it was really nice to be around people and I had some good conversations with colleagues. So that’s it. [00:18:51] Brett: Nice. All right. Um, I, I can go next. So, I am going on over three months now [00:19:00] without sleeping. Um, I am, um, I cannot remember at this point what it feels like to be well rested. I do not think I am manic. I do not think I’m depressed. I’m actually, considering I’m getting like three hours of sleep a night on average, um, I’m actually functioning really well. [00:19:20] Brett: My job suddenly remembered I existed. Um, and, and I have been, I have been like inundated with work, which turns out, like, I actually enjoy working. Um, and it was, it was getting pretty scary when, for like months when no one was giving me assignments and I was just, Existing and had like nothing to report on my quarterly report. [00:19:45] Brett: And, um, so, but I’m dealing with it and I’m dealing with life. I’m keeping the house clean. I’m cooking dinners. Um, I don’t understand how I’m doing this, which makes me think, wow, did I become like type one bipolar? Uh, [00:20:00] is something else going on? Um, I have tried three FDA approved insomnia treatments at this point. [00:20:06] Brett: I’m. Starting Gabapentin today to see if it works. Um, I have asked my primary care physician for a referral to sleep medicine, um, to do like a sleep study and try to figure out what’s going on because I’m, I don’t have. Anxiety. I’m not having racing thoughts. I just cannot fall asleep. I fall asleep within 15 minutes of laying down. [00:20:33] Brett: I wake up an hour later and then it’s shot for the night. Um, and I, I, this has never happened to me before. Like, yeah, I’m bipolar. I’ve had manic episodes. My manic episodes last at most a week and this is three months and I don’t know what the fuck’s going on, but it’s killing me. [00:20:52] Jeff: And then it just like, and then it just like compounds, right? Because like the thing you need to be well asleep [00:20:57] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. It’s killing me. [00:21:00] It’s killing me. [00:21:00] Jeff: Maybe you shouldn’t have named your podcast Overtired. [00:21:03] Brett: Oh, you think I jinxed it? [00:21:05] Christina: mean, that was, I think that was my bad, actually. I think that was actually my fault, but, um, [00:21:14] Jeff: to the you was the [00:21:15] Brett: I remember, I remember this conversation in an elevator [00:21:18] Christina: an elevator. Yeah. [00:21:20] Brett: and I don’t remember who said it first, but we were both a hundred percent [00:21:23] Christina: No, we were both a hundred percent. And yeah, I can’t remember who said it either. I think that one of us, I think said, uh, just really overtired. And then I think we were like, that’s it. That’s the name of the pod. Um, so it was definitely like a group thing, but I don’t remember exactly which one of us. Yeah. [00:21:37] Christina: Cause we were in an elevator at the Twitter building. Um, [00:21:41] Jeff: X. It’s called X. [00:21:43] Christina: No, it was called Twitter then. And that’s what we’re still going to call [00:21:45] Jeff: I just, I know I just like to troll. [00:21:47] Christina: I, I, I know, but I like to troll back. Um, so yeah. Um, [00:21:52] Jeff: me. [00:21:55] Christina: No, get a, get a sleep study for sure, Brett. Cause that’s not, um, so do you [00:22:00] know definitively that you’re only like, have you like worn an Apple watch or anything? [00:22:03] Christina: Like, do you know like how much REM sleep you’re getting or anything like that? [00:22:06] Brett: I do wear an Apple Watch. Um, I have not actually bothered looking at stats because I look at the clock all night long. Um, like I’m not up working like [00:22:16] Christina: No, no, no, no, no. I get that. No, but I was, what I was saying though, it’s useful. Um, if you wear your Apple watch at night, like I don’t because I baby rest. So I have to wear like the small Apple watch, which means the battery life is bullshit. And if I have to like, It’s just dumb to like sleep in it, but for me, um, and I’m not one of those people who’s yet at the point where I’m like, yeah, I’ll buy a watch to sleep in. [00:22:36] Christina: No, I can get like a Fitbit or something. I think they still make Fitbits, but they can, um, but if you wear it, like, if you look at the stats, like it’ll actually be able to, to tell you like what amount of [00:22:44] Brett: deep sleep [00:22:45] Christina: sleep is happening. And, and so, um, cause that, that’ll help with the sleep study. Cause it’s bad that you’re only getting three hours of sleep, but [00:22:54] Brett: I’m, I’m hitting, I’m hitting REM. I will have two to three [00:23:00] crazy dreams. In a night with only like a total of three hours of actual sleep. So like I fall asleep, have a crazy dream, wake up, stay awake for half an hour to an hour, and then fall asleep and have another crazy dream. And they’re so memorable. [00:23:18] Brett: Like I remember all these dreams and I can sit and bore my partner to death with the bizarre details. [00:23:25] Jeff: but it wasn’t you. [00:23:27] Brett: It was you, but it didn’t look like you, but I knew it was you. And yeah, it, it was. So there’s this artist named David Usher. Uh, he was in Moist, um, but he’s an amazing solo artist. And in the U S you can’t stream anything before like the live version of the Mile End Sessions. [00:23:49] Brett: And he has three albums before that, that I absolutely adored and can no longer find and I, [00:23:57] Christina: his name? I’ll find it for you. [00:23:58] Brett: David Usher, [00:24:00] I’ve looked on. Torrent sites? I cannot find it. If you find it, let me know. [00:24:04] Christina: Yeah, I, I, I’m, I’m in private music trackers, so just gimme a [00:24:07] Brett: okay. Um, and, [00:24:09] Jeff: music track? Oh, we can [00:24:10] Brett: well, so what I ended up doing, I ended up ordering actual musical CDs that I’m going to find a way to rip to MP3s so I can do this. [00:24:22] Brett: But, I had this dream that I met this girl who, like, like, like, as was mentioned, was Elle, but wasn’t Elle. So, And they agreed to, they agreed to sing the discography with me from memory while we were having sex. And it was the weird, like [00:24:41] Jeff: Lights on, lights off. [00:24:43] Brett: I woke up singing lyrics to like some of my favorite David Usher songs a couple of times and then fell back into this dream where I was just singing David Usher songs with a girl while we were having what I will say was unsuccessful sex. It was, it was [00:25:00] very, it was, it was laborious, [00:25:02] Erin: Well, [00:25:03] Christina: so, so what, what, uh, what years do you need? ’cause I’m seeing, now I’m seeing strange words from 2007. Uh, if God had gers. [00:25:09] Brett: Yeah. God have curse and morning orbit. [00:25:12] Christina: Okay. Um, uh, what are hallucinations from 2003? [00:25:16] Brett: What? [00:25:17] Christina: There? There, there’s an album called Hallucinations. [00:25:19] Brett: I’ve never heard that [00:25:20] Jeff: Welcome to our new segment. Find my music. [00:25:23] Christina: yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, well I’ll grab that for you. [00:25:25] Brett: Yeah. Send me, send me everything you can [00:25:27] Christina: There’s also little, little songs from 1998. [00:25:30] Brett: Oh, oh my God. Little songs was what got me into David Usher. I haven’t been able to find that anywhere. [00:25:37] Christina: Oh yeah, no, I found them all instantly. Yeah, I got [00:25:39] Brett: my god. Save, save me. That’s amazing. [00:25:41] Christina: Yeah, I got, I got [00:25:42] Brett: made my day. I’ll shut up for the rest [00:25:44] Jeff: We call him, we call him White Usher in Minneapolis. [00:25:50] Christina: Other usher. [00:25:51] Brett: Well, if you, if you search like Pirate Bay for David Usher, you get a bunch of stuff from David Guerra featuring Usher.[00:26:00] [00:26:00] Christina: Usher, that makes sense. [00:26:01] Brett: Oh [00:26:02] Christina: Yeah. So, um, uh, I don’t know how much we want to, you know, just fuck it. Um, I’ve been part of these communities for two decades at this point. So there used to be a music tracker called Oink, uh, the Pink Palace, which was a private music tracker that was [00:26:16] Jeff: Wait, is it like Oink colon the Pink Palace? [00:26:18] Christina: Well, it was known as the Pink Palace, but it was called Oink, O I N K. And, um, and like it had a pig as its mascot. It was great. It was genuinely the best music site. Trent Reznor was a member. In fact, we talked about it, um, uh, during one of the times that I interviewed him, the Apple people were really not pleased with that. [00:26:37] Christina: Um, but whatever. And uh, um, that was shut down by the feds in like nine months. Um, and then, um, uh, kind of a hydra of that called WhatCD launched, and that was great. And then WhatCD was shut down by various feds, um, this is all overseas and these people were dumb enough to host things in the United [00:27:00] States, um, in 2016. [00:27:03] Christina: And then two, uh. Um, Music Trackers came out of the ashes of WhatCD, Redacted, and Orpheus, and I’m members of both. So, um, oh, uh, Redacted tends to have more stuff, but Orpheus tends to, um, have a pretty good mirror. So between the two of them, like, I can find most things. And then the, the great thing about them, especially, uh, Redacted, is that they have like these bounties where if you will do basically like what Brett was going to do, which, you know, buy the CDs and like rip them. [00:27:33] Christina: Or if you buy the vinyl and will find like, like things that people really want, you know, people will give you like, um, amazing amounts of like upload credit and things like that. So, um, like, [00:27:44] Brett: the BBS days all [00:27:45] Christina: Oh, completely. It’s completely BBS days, but, but again, like, [00:27:48] Brett: credit. I’ve heard, I haven’t heard upload credit for [00:27:50] Christina: well, yeah, cause you have to maintain a ratio, but the ratio you can maintain as long as you just seed shit forever. [00:27:55] Christina: But like, um, so if you have a seed box or if you have an always on computer, you’re fine, but yeah, no, all [00:28:00] of this is a throwback to like, you know, like literally when I was in college. So. Um, but yeah, long story short, um, there are, if it’s been physically made available, if there’s like a rip on it, I can usually find it, and I need to just get off my ass and rip one of my Taylor Swift vinyls because somebody wants a certain version off of one of those songs. [00:28:20] Christina: My name is [00:28:20] Brett: Upload credits. [00:28:22] Christina: Dude, they’re willing, they’re, they’re, they’re willing to give, like, no, they’re willing to give like a terabyte of credit upload. Like I would never have to like seed anything ever again in my entire life. So I just have to actually get off my ass and rip that vinyl. Um, but yeah. [00:28:35] Christina: Um, I will, I will get you the David Usher. Thanks. [00:28:38] Brett: The last time I dealt with ratios and upload credits, it was still measured in kilobytes. I, Jeff, do you know, do you know, were you on BBS’s [00:28:49] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, but like at the, like in 1994 for a minute, and then I just didn’t have a computer for a long time, [00:28:57] Brett: And I’m assuming Erin, [00:29:00] you might be young enough that you have no idea what we’re talking about. [00:29:03] Erin: correct. I apologize. [00:29:05] Christina: No. Yeah, no. So this. [00:29:06] Brett: avoid, we’ll avoid going into depth then because [00:29:08] Christina: Yeah, no, yeah, I mean, I never used BBSes, but this was like a thing like with BitTorrent for private communities where like, to ensure that people don’t just like, like download and run, you have to make sure that you up, you seed a certain amount [00:29:21] Brett: a seed. You got a seed. [00:29:24] Christina: And that’s still the case on private communities, like I’m currently [00:29:28] Brett: What is, what is the, what is the polite number of days, months to seed a download before you remove it? [00:29:38] Christina: It depends on the tracker. Um, so, like, some places will make you seed for, like, two weeks. Like, uh, uh, uh, an audiobook, like, an audiobook tracker that I’m part of, like, makes you seed for two weeks. Some things, it’s kind of unclear, like, they kind of, like, really want you to seed forever, and so, you really want a seed box. [00:29:56] Christina: Um, which, what that is, for, for, for the listeners who are either too young or too old, [00:30:00] it’s just a server. That host your torrent files, usually on, um, a box, uh, from some VPS, from some sketchy VPS, um, that’s probably hosted by a Hetzner or OVH in Europe. And then you remotely, like, use your torrent client that way. [00:30:15] Christina: And um, yeah. And that way, like, if it gets nuked or whatever, you’re Well, okay, fine. Um, but, um, that way you can just kind of cede forever without having to have your computer connected. Um, but yeah. [00:30:26] Jeff: Christina, what do you charge for a private consult? Because I want a private consult. [00:30:34] Christina: Yeah, we’ll do it. Yeah, [00:30:35] Jeff: I’m only half the way to what you’re describing in my life, so, [00:30:39] Christina: Yeah, no, we can totally talk about it. And, um, honestly, a lot of these things are available through, uh, through the, the, the one technology that will never die, which is Usenet. So. [00:30:48] Jeff: mm hmm, mm hmm, [00:30:50] Brett: All right. So, moving along, and you’re allowed to opt out if you want to, Jeff or Erin, you want to give us a mental health update? [00:30:59] Jeff: Erin, you go [00:31:00] ahead. If you want to go, go ahead, because mine might transition back into a question I have for you about your tour. [00:31:05] Erin: Oh, okay, that’d be wonderful, thanks. Um, I went through a pretty bad breakup in August, and I’m still sort of dealing with that. Uh, pretty depress y, and my brain is lizard y enough, such that if The sun is out, equals sign, I am happy. If it is not out, and you live in Pittsburgh, I am not happy. Uh, and unfortunately I live in Pittsburgh, and so that’s been rough. [00:31:34] Erin: Um, I’ve been thinking a lot lately about singledom, and um, how you’re sort of unconsciously or subconsciously treated in a friend group or in a community when you’re single. That like, there is a kind of invisibility. you, you have as a single person and that, [00:32:00] that invisibility is like really lonely. Um, I have as many friends as I did when I was in that relationship, but it just like without exclusion, like I Rolodex all of my, I’m old enough to say Rolodex, I guess. [00:32:15] Erin: I Rolodex all of my Friends, mentally, and I’m like, we’re nominally still buds, nominally still buds, nothing’s changed, except it has. And so why? And it’s maybe a little reductive of me to be like, well, I’m single now. Um, but I do think the correlation is there and it’s just like, been bumming me out in a way that like, my, my subconscious. [00:32:41] Erin: will get a like Victorian style, uh, plate and put like heaps of resentment on it and be like, Hey, how good does this look? And I’m like, damn, I’m like licking my lip, like pretty, pretty good. Uh, because [00:33:00] You know, I, I don’t know. It’s, it’s really, it feels, just to close the loop on this, it feels like, uh, a sort of defeat to reach out to these people and be like, hey, I’m kind of hurting. [00:33:12] Erin: I’m, I’m a little bummed that you haven’t reached out. Like, have I wronged you? Like, what’s going on? I’m really lonely. That doing that feels either humiliating or, or, or something. Like I should, I should rise above that. I should hold out. But what is holding out getting me? Nothing. More resentment. So, I’m trying to be better about that. [00:33:33] Brett: to reach out like that? Or can you just reach out and say, Hey, I haven’t heard from you in a while. What’s up? And then like, let it develop because yeah, like I would feel just as, I would feel just as weird as you’re talking about. If I was like, Hey, I haven’t heard from you and it hurt my feelings. [00:33:55] Erin: So I’ve already done this, [00:33:56] Brett: Okay. I believe [00:33:58] Erin: two or three people. [00:33:59] Brett: like an [00:34:00] obvious solution. [00:34:01] Erin: For sure, for sure. Like, we’re all busy and Uh, without going into the very, uh, it feels like every podcast I listen to does this. We’ll like have, uh, we’ll make a point and that point is attributed to how bad capitalism is. So I’m going to avoid that. [00:34:17] Erin: Right. Um, no problem, but we’re all busy because of capital. And I’ve, I’ve, I’ve just, I’ve like built this theory. Let me know your opinion about this, this real quick. This, this rashly assembled theory. Okay, so we all have a certain kind of, uh, a certain amount of energy. When you are coupled, when you’re in a relationship, when you’re in a partnership, that energy primarily goes into your partnership. [00:34:46] Erin: What you have left to take care of your body, pay the bills. Go to the gym, whatever, um, you keep. And what’s left is usually very, very little. And so for single [00:35:00] people, all that main person energy that would go into a partnership is evenly distributed and available. But if you are single, but if you’re partnered, you don’t have that. [00:35:11] Erin: So there’s a mismatch there. And so I’m trying to attribute my sort of resentment to a structural imbalance for which they, they’re not choosing to, to slight me, right? Um, so, so I’ve already reached out and, and at this point it’s like, Gosh, some people come in your life and some people leave and let sleeping kitties lie on your chest and uh, move on? [00:35:38] Erin: Dot org? I don’t know. [00:35:39] Jeff: Is it, oh God, nice work. Is it, um, is it, where does this overlap with the thing about almost like having to, the really terrible thing of almost like having to split up friends in a breakup? Does it overlap with that? Or a divorce? Yeah. [00:35:54] Erin: I’d like to think not. I’d like to think not. These are friends that I had like, uh, independent, [00:36:00] um, of, of that partnership. So I don’t know. I don’t know. [00:36:08] Brett: Jeff or Christina, have you guys ever been single? [00:36:11] Jeff: Yes. I’ve been, I have been very, very epically [00:36:16] Christina: long time. Yeah. [00:36:18] Brett: I have, I have never been single for more than two weeks. I don’t, like, I consider that a problem. I’m not proud of that. Like, I don’t know how to be single. That’s, that’s [00:36:27] Christina: You’re Jennifer Lopez. She, she, she, she has a movie and a documentary about that. [00:36:32] Brett: Yeah. [00:36:32] Christina: not joking. [00:36:33] Brett: I believe you. I haven’t seen this. [00:36:36] Christina: Um, so the, the documentary is better. The movie’s insane. It’s called, uh, this is, uh, me now. Or whatever. Um, uh, it, so she did like a 20 year, like, sequel to her album that had Jenny from the Block on it. And, uh, all about like her getting back together with Ben Affleck. It’s not great. Um, but the movie is insane. [00:36:57] Christina: She spent 20 million of her own money on it. [00:37:00] It’s, it’s a choice and Amazon did distribute it, but they certainly didn’t pay for all of it. I feel positive. Um, and then, um, but it’s, it’s, it’s like, it’s insane. I wish that it were both worse or better, like it kind of needs to go like one way or the other. [00:37:15] Christina: But the thing that makes it work is that then they made a documentary of the making of the movie. And the documentary is actually pretty fucking great. Like, she and Ben Affleck actually have really good chemistry. He really loves her. Like, he really loves her. Um, uh, which is, which is clear because he’s like, even telling her, like, he’s being very supportive of the whole endeavor, but he’s also like, being very clear, like, Don’t put your own money into this. [00:37:41] Christina: Um, but yeah, uh, that’s kind of her whole MO is the fact that she can’t ever be single and, and that she goes from like one thing to the next. And she’s like, very clear on that. Uh, there’s also a very funny bit that’s very reminiscent of the, um, uh, uh, David Beckham and Victoria, um, uh, Beckham, uh, Netflix thing [00:38:00] where, you know, they kind of rag on each other where she’s writing this script about like her, you know, life and, and, you know, She’s like, you know, she was 28 when, and he was like, except you weren’t 28, you know, you were, you like, you were 30 or whatever. [00:38:11] Christina: Uh, he was like, you know, even make yourself younger, like in, in the, in, in, in the, the fake version of your life or whatever, you’ve been played younger than it’s very funny. Um, but, uh, but no, yeah, that’s, that’s, that, that’s a whole thing. No, I’ve been single for sure, [00:38:27] Brett: Okay, [00:38:28] Christina: but it’s hard, um, when you like lose, like when you lose that, you know, you’re not in the relationship and then the other people around you, um, Um, or that were around you aren’t there, because you’re right, you only have like so much energy usually for, um, types of things and, and [00:38:45] Brett: I think, I think there’s a certain age, I don’t know what age it is, but I think there’s an age you get to where you’re just expected to be coupled. Um, and, and there’s a stigma around being, you know, 30 [00:39:00] years old and unattached. Um, and you’re 20, sure, but maybe it’s 30, maybe, I don’t know. [00:39:06] Christina: Yeah, I think it’s getting older, but yeah, probably 30 is 30 ish. I mean, I think it depends. Um, I definitely think, feel like it’s getting older. Cause I know, like, I don’t have kids and it used to be much more rare to be around people who don’t have kids. And now I feel like I know a lot of people who are my age or in my age range who don’t have kids. [00:39:27] Christina: Um, some are single, um, some are not. Um, but what is hard, like it’s hard, but what is, what is hard is like to find people who are in a couple. Who don’t have kids, who are like over a certain age, like that’s more difficult. And then that kind of sucks because you’re like, okay, well, you know, it’s hard to get together with people because they, you know, have their, their kid shit to deal with, which is completely understandable, but it’s also like, if you don’t have that too, then you don’t like, [00:39:52] Brett: no, I have definitely found my friend group consists almost entirely of coupled slash [00:40:00] polyamorous people who have no kids. Um, and, and I, people have kids and you’re like, that’s great. I love you for that. And then they just kind of disappear from the friend group. Um, But yeah, like I left my high school girlfriend for another girl. [00:40:16] Brett: I left her for another girl. She left me. I was single for like two weeks. Um, I had another girl, the friend for like four years and it was just. Relationship after relationship and many times I have thought maybe I should just spend like two years just like in like a monk just be like single for two years and like deal with [00:40:41] Erin: Don’t do it. do it. Never do it. I’m here from the future. I’m walking in the underworld right now. It is awful down here. Don’t do it. [00:40:51] Jeff: Erin, is it, is the energy thing like, I, I, I’m asking based on a, just a memory of like, all of a sudden that your [00:41:00] energy thing was like really just resonated like, and, and with that energy that’s, that’s not used in, in coupledom, is there, is there ever a feeling of like, now what should I do with this energy? [00:41:10] Jeff: Or like a pressure? Or is it, are you not in that space? [00:41:15] Erin: I, um, I guess this is still technically my mental health corner. Um, so, so I’ve never been bored in my life. And I think the reason for that is because, uh, I have maybe father issues, and those father issues are tied to an idea that, uh, your worth is dependent on, entirely, your ability to produce things. [00:41:44] Erin: Your productivity. [00:41:45] Brett: so it’s not, you’ve been bored because you haven’t allowed yourself to be bored. [00:41:50] Erin: Yeah. [00:41:51] Brett: Interesting. [00:41:52] Erin: Um, so I always have stuff to do and I always have music to make and I can always go for a run and I love running and I can [00:42:00] always get better at like making a pad thai or something. Like there’s always shit for me to do. I don’t know if that’s healthy. I mean, let’s, let’s call a spade a spade. It’s, it’s very likely not. [00:42:12] Erin: Um, but that’s where my energy goes. So, [00:42:18] Brett: side note. I have been, every time someone uses a, um, what’s the word for, like a cliche, like a, call a spade a spade, I have to question, is that racist? Does it have racist roots? I looked it up. Spade is, that phrase is not racist. It has. No racist origins. Just, just as a point of interest, like I have found so, so many of the things that I say without thinking twice about it, because it’s just always been part of the vernacular, um, have turned out to have very racist origins. [00:42:55] Erin: Yeah, [00:42:56] Brett: But that one, despite sounding racist, [00:43:00] weirdly isn’t. [00:43:00] Christina: Hey, good. Fantastic. [00:43:04] Erin: I’ll [00:43:04] Jeff: I, I deal with that a lot with, I have two, I have two teenagers and especially my 17 year old is like really good at just giving me a little face. If I say something, I’m like, shit, just from the face. I’m like, okay, hold on. Hold on. No, I get that. I get that. Yep, I’ll try to drop that one. Nothing terrible, right? [00:43:21] Jeff: Like subtle stuff that you’re just, you’re used to with everybody your age. You’ve already, you’ve already, like in my case, I’ve already stripped all of the most obvious, horrible stuff a long ass time ago, right? [00:43:32] Brett: It’s just a [00:43:33] Jeff: No, it’s just like, yeah, [00:43:36] Christina: no, and sometimes, like, the idioms or whatever, like, you know, might have had, like, those origins, which is terrible, and I’m not defending it, but, like, language does change, you know? And so, it’s always hard to know that, too. It’s like, well, in this era, like, you know, like, in 1920, it meant this. [00:43:50] Christina: It’s like, okay, when did it, like, culturally shift, right? [00:43:57] Brett: I’m sorry for the tangent [00:43:59] Christina: No, [00:44:00] go for it. [00:44:00] Brett: but I posted a meme that talked about, it was Gandalf saying one monitor, two monitors, now where’s my cursor? And it was just, it was funny. Somebody, [00:44:12] Jeff: it, but [00:44:13] Brett: somebody, somebody I used to work with was like, it’s not called a cursor, it’s called a pointer. A cursor is the text insertion point and a word processor. [00:44:22] Brett: And I’m like, yeah, I know that actually. I’m like, well, actually that’s called it. That’s called a carrot. [00:44:28] Christina: Right. That is called a carrot. [00:44:29] Brett: I know, I know. And I’m like, language changes. Like cursor does mean your mouse [00:44:36] Christina: it does. It does. Like, like, they’re, they’re like technically correct. Yeah, it is pointer, but no, like, it, it, it’s, it’s changed. And we might not like that it’s changed, and we might still want to use the original thing, but it’s like, you have to accept, no, the definition of this thing is no longer, yeah. [00:44:50] Christina: Like, like, I, I will kill people who say irregardless because it’s not a real word, but I had to give that [00:44:56] Brett: But Webster’s, Webster’s added it. [00:44:58] Christina: I had to give that up, right? [00:45:00] Yeah, exactly. Pedants? [00:45:02] Brett: Yeah. Pedants, Pedants. How do we say this? [00:45:05] Christina: Pedants? I’d probably call them pedants. Yeah, [00:45:08] Brett: call them pants. [00:45:10] Christina: you’re being like pedantic. So I don’t know. So I call them a pedant. Yeah. [00:45:15] Brett: Okay. Jeff, do you wanna, do you wanna squeeze a mental health corner in here before it’s, uh, before half an [00:45:22] Jeff: no, definitely. I, Erin, you were talking about fans. First of all, I, so I was from like 95 to like 98. I was in a band with that. I, my brother and my best friend who I started music with and, uh, we toured a lot and I put out a record. I loved that. Um, but what it gave me is that when I see a band now, my first thought is, I know what their van smells like. I mean, unless they have a bus, but usually it’s like those, those people walk on stage. I saw the band Yob recently from the Pacific Northwest, [00:46:00] Yob walked on stage and I was like, you know what? I bet that van has just a hint of good smell, kind of incense, maybe Nag Champa. I don’t [00:46:06] Erin: for sure [00:46:07] Jeff: know, right? [00:46:08] Jeff: Right? But others, you’re just like, Oh Christ, I can just, I can smell that van from here. [00:46:14] Christina: smell it from here. Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I, I’ve never, I’ve never, um, spent a lot of time like with people like touring or whatever. So I don’t know that, but, but something tells me that most of the, most of the vans do not have a good smell. [00:46:29] Erin: There’s a certain scent. There’s that there’s that thing about how like how all living creatures who aren’t humanoids like eventually evolve into a crab or whatever like most van scents eventually evolve into like a Cheetos. [00:46:46] Jeff: Yes, yes! [00:46:47] Brett: or, or, uh, corn [00:46:48] Erin: don’t know, even if Cheetos aren’t involved, it still skews. [00:46:52] Christina: You, [00:46:52] Erin: so [00:46:53] Christina: like the, the corn smell. [00:46:55] Erin: Yeah, [00:46:56] Brett: It’s amazing what you can get used to that you can just not [00:47:00] smell [00:47:00] Christina: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Totally. Totally. Now, now, I, I, cause I, cause my pers, my, like, assumption, and I could be wrong on this, is that even if everyone is clean or whatever involved, like, There’s gonna be like a latent B. O. smell that just never leaves, you know, which is fine. Cheeto, yeah, totally, right, but there’s just like a latent kind of like, like B. [00:47:18] Christina: O. smell because you’re like, yeah, that’s what, that’s what happens, like, especially, um, if you have like people who are, are sweaty. Ever, you know, in it. It’s like, yeah, okay. [00:47:29] Jeff: Yeah, [00:47:29] Christina: cigarettes, like, [00:47:30] Jeff: sweaty always. [00:47:31] Christina: sweaty, like cigarettes, maybe like stale beer. Like, I don’t know. I think about like my friend in high school, Kyle, like his car smells like what I imagined, like the van would smell like for, for a lot of vans. [00:47:44] Brett: Quick, quick, quick, quick vote and then back to Jeff. Is this episode called Lizardy or is it called Latent Cheeto Smell? [00:47:53] Jeff: Like light and Cheeto [00:47:54] Christina: I like late and Cheetos smell. [00:47:55] Jeff: Yeah. Um, okay. So why I brought up the van is, so I’ve, I’ve [00:48:00] been, um, in work has just been super intense lately and I’ve, I’ve typically always made a point of not working evenings and weekends, even if it’s at the cost of, you know, meeting deadlines just because I don’t want my work to be that in my life. [00:48:13] Jeff: And, um, and, uh, and also I’ve been working with like a client that I just don’t love or relate to or feel like any kind of connection to. So why does this matter? Um, My experience of being in bands, I mean, really from the eighth grade, but like definitely going out and like making your not living together, um, on tour is like, I, I was in a band with who I loved. [00:48:40] Jeff: One of them was my brother. I love these guys. I loved being close to them. I loved being squished in with them. Um, And, and we were on a mission and we made music. We really loved, um, we made music that like was very intentional, something we meant to do, right? Like we, everything was, we meant to do it. Um, it wasn’t, we weren’t falling [00:49:00] into anything. [00:49:01] Jeff: And, um, and we felt such a connection. And then you go out on the road and you are like a rogue, um, you know, band of, of whatever. And, and that feeling is one that I don’t think many people know. Um, and I don’t think many people know the feeling of, Like, almost lawlessness, um, like nothing applies to you, uh, in a way that’s really beautiful. [00:49:23] Jeff: I, I, I love the feeling of only eating at truck stops and, and just, you know, like being in sort of the weird back lanes of, of, of capitalist America, really, if you’re at truck stops, right? That’s what it is. Um, and, and, I loved that feeling so much. We run a small record label, so you also had that feeling with the record label. [00:49:42] Jeff: It’s just a couple people there and they’re fighting for you, you know, if they’re doing their job well. Um, and it’s you against the club owners, most of the most part, right? Like, um, sometimes you against the drunkest person in the club, but like, that feeling of, of shared mission. is one that I, I [00:50:00] realized, and I realized over and over again, I need and demand, um, to a point that’s unrealistic. [00:50:05] Jeff: And, and sometimes when I’m unhappiest at my jobs in my, you know, like, I don’t know, 20 some years of career now, um, what I’m unhappy about is I resent having to try to push something forward with people I don’t Feel a sense of mission with, um, or that sense of just like really intense, sort of like going against everything to do this thing you love and, and not worrying about, um, what it means exactly at any given moment, just knowing that in the, in the doing of it. [00:50:34] Jeff: Right. And, uh, and, and so I am, you just, uh, you helped me make that connection. I haven’t made in a long time that like, what’s been hard is I’ve not only been working too much to hit a deadline, which is over now. But I’ve been doing it in a way that’s like, I feel totally isolated and alone. I don’t feel like I have mission partners, um, and who needs that shit? [00:50:53] Jeff: I mean, we all get it, but who needs it? [00:50:55] Christina: No, it sucks. It’s the worst. [00:50:57] Jeff: Yeah. [00:50:58] Christina: And, and, [00:50:58] Jeff: I don’t know if that, [00:50:59] Erin: [00:51:00] So your mental health is good then? [00:51:01] Jeff: I mean, it’s getting better. Cause I cleared this, this deadline, but I had probably one of the hardest professional weeks I’ve ever had. Like I, I had physiological results that are like impacts of it. That were like, they scared me. I was like, I can’t die like this. Like, it’s not worth it. [00:51:17] Jeff: I do like my work overall. Like I it’s meaningful work, but like, I don’t know. I can’t die over this. Like I had a scary, scary moment where I was like, wait, what’s this? What’s this? Um, and, uh, and yeah, the, the merry band and not always merry band of, of roving rogues is, uh, is a model that I always insist on having a little bit of. [00:51:37] Jeff: And just the last thing I’ll say about that. It’s almost like when, um, when I first took like anxiety medication, the, the reason my, like the way my therapist convinced me was like, What you need at the very least is a reference point for what it feels like to not feel like what you always feel like, right? [00:51:52] Jeff: You just, you, you want to be able to say, Oh, okay, now I have felt something different. And then see what that means. See how that [00:52:00] causes you to make whatever different decisions, ask different questions, whatever it is. And like having that reference feeling of being a feeling truly that free, even though you were just like, I was a dishwasher, I made no money. [00:52:11] Jeff: I was using my mom’s Amoco gas card. to get by like microwave sandwiches at the gas station. But like I felt free and, and spacious. And so having that reference is both a blessing and a curse anyway. [00:52:28] The Question of Black Metal [00:52:28] Jeff: Um, but my question for you then is actually a black metal question. Um, I am curious where black metal came into your life first and then where it came into your art. [00:52:40] Erin: Oh cool, what a considerate question, thank you. I, [00:52:43] Brett: yeah. [00:52:44] Erin: I had a guitar teacher at a really young age who was into metal. At that point, uh, I had gone through a few phases in which I thought Metallica was the of musical achievement. And then I heard [00:53:00] Dream Theater and Rush, [00:53:01] Christina: We were all there. Yeah. [00:53:02] Erin: right, music that doesn’t sound like this. [00:53:05] Erin: is beneath me and beneath all of us. Why is anyone else listening to anything else [00:53:09] Jeff: There are good drummers? Yeah. [00:53:12] Erin: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh, and then I started taking classical guitar lessons with this teacher, but he was a metalhead, and I knew that he was a metalhead, and I talked to him about those bands, and he was not into Dream Theater, and I’m like, what are you, what are you like if not that? [00:53:28] Erin: And he was like, Catatonia, Opeth, Uh, Bloodbath, Bathory, Pestilence, Atheist. And I’m like, uh, what are those bands? Uh, not that they’re all [00:53:40] Jeff: Shows you the logos. You can’t read them. Yes. [00:53:43] Erin: Correct. And so he burned me some discs and just spun those a lot, especially Catatonia. And I just fell in love with it. And I am so thankful for that because if I heard black metal for the first time as an [00:54:00] adult, as an adult who really like metal. [00:54:04] Erin: I’d be like, get this away from me. What is this noise? This is awful sonic sound. Awful sonic sound. Cool, cool phrase. Um, . So I’d always been a metalhead, but I had never, I went to school for music. I was in like math rock bands, did that kind of thing, but I was never in a metal band myself as a metalhead. [00:54:24] Erin: And so I was on a jog a couple years ago, uh, and it just like. hit me, inspiration hit me, it never does this clearly, but I was like, oh my god, I need to be a one person black metal band with a headless white seven string guitar and it needs to be called Genital Shame. [00:54:43] Jeff: Yes. It all became clear to [00:54:46] Brett: I was just reading the review in the Pittsburgh City Pages and it talks about your headless white seven string guitar. [00:54:53] Jeff: do you have that near you? [00:54:54] Brett: I do. It’s in the show notes. [00:54:56] Jeff: I mean, do you have that guitar near you, [00:54:58] Erin: I sold it. [00:54:59] Jeff: You sold it. [00:55:00] Okay. Got it. [00:55:00] Erin: I sold it. It got me [00:55:01] Jeff: vision, but we’re going to iterate. [00:55:04] Erin: to iterate. We’re working with a, you know, a, a bullet, uh, fender and a, and a parts caster telly now we’ve moved on. Um, but I actually feel a little uncomfortable calling General Shame black metal because it’s not true as, as people in the scene would say cult CVLT. [00:55:25] Erin: Black metal, but it really, uh, pushes those kinds of things. My tastes are quite sugary. I really love melody. Uh, so I try to make my music as melodic as possible when possible, but still maintaining that, that sort of like the harshness that I would reject as an adult who had never listened to it. [00:55:48] Jeff: What are the, what are the metal bands that have that kind of like sugary ness that you’re talking about that you love? [00:55:56] Erin: I don’t want to say I’m in a league of my own, but there are [00:56:00] not many. A friend’s band called Agriculture does it. There’s a band called Liturgy that a lot of people like [00:56:07] Jeff: Yeah. [00:56:08] Erin: that do that. My maybe favorite metal band is called Kralis from Brooklyn. They do that sometimes. Very melodic, yet still really crushing and brutal. [00:56:20] Erin: Um, so yeah, I like, get you a metal that could do both, you know, [00:56:25] Jeff: get you a medal that can do both. That’s a great answer. I love it. [00:56:28] Erin: Thanks. [00:56:30] Jeff: Awesome. Well, what do we got? [00:56:34] The Dimspirations Store is open [00:56:34] Brett: Can I, can I plug my shit? [00:56:36] Christina: Yeah. Please. Let’s talk. Let’s talk about your [00:56:39] Brett: We talked last time, last time we were on a few weeks back, I had launched Demspirations or Demspire. me, uh, with all of the Demspirations I’ve made over the last couple of years, I just wanted to plug that there’s now merch. If you go to Demspire. me slash store. You can buy what I would [00:57:00] say are very clever t shirts, coffee mugs, and even calendars. [00:57:05] Brett: Um, I, I don’t mean to toot my own horn, but it’s, they’re fucking, they’re genius. They’re unbelievable. Um, and it’s amazing that I’ve made a total of 170 off [00:57:19] Jeff: Yes. [00:57:20] Brett: off this store [00:57:21] Jeff: walking around money. You don’t [00:57:22] Christina: I’m [00:57:22] Jeff: man. That’s good. Like, [00:57:24] Christina: I’m going to be honest. I’m actually really impressed by that. I like would not have expected. Like that’s actually much higher than I would have expected. Like if I could be completely candid. [00:57:32] Brett: But the, the, the most fun part of it is I made yesterday in under half an hour, I made a URL shortener for dimspire. me. So I can, I can use that. dim. moi, M O I, dim. moi, slash, and then like, you know, your typical, like, bit. ly four, four letter, uh, string, and I can shortlink any of the dimspirations on the site, and I can [00:58:00] also link them if, if the dimspiration is called, say, uh, self critical in the URL, I can just do dim. [00:58:07] Brett: moi, slash, self critical, and it’ll link to the full URL with, uh, With, um, with UTM query strings. So I can actually track, yeah, I, I built a URL shortener. It’s way easier than you think. [00:58:22] Christina: No. So I actually, I was, I was going to ask you what you use for your, your URL shortener, because I need, I have one that I have for like my, uh, my drop a cloud, um, uh, account or whatever, but I’ve wanted to either build my own or Like, have my own host, because I have a number of different short URLs that I would like to use. [00:58:39] Christina: So, I’m curious how you built yours. If you did it completely from scratch, if you used another [00:58:44] Brett: Yeah, I use, there’s a, there’s a repo, there’s an 11 year old repo on GitHub that I’ll link in the show notes, um, that I just kind of hacked. It’s PHP. Um, it’s just PHP and MySQL. And, uh, it’s, it’s, [00:59:00] it took me. Maybe 15 minutes to hack it to do exactly what I wanted it to do. Um, and then like drop it in an HT access file that redirects and, and it’s done. [00:59:11] Brett: So like I had to register the domain, uh, like the short domain. I had to fully host it so that I could run PHP scripts on it. And then. That was it. Like, the script takes half an hour, and if you know PHP at all, you can, you can do whatever you want with it. [00:59:29] Jeff: awesome. [00:59:30] Brett: Yeah, I’m pretty proud of that. I was so excited. And it fucking, when you post one of these short URLs to a social media service, it still gets the full Open Graph preview [00:59:42] Christina: Oh, nice. Because, [00:59:43] Brett: And Summary and [00:59:44] Christina: yeah, because you put that in. That’s nice. [00:59:46] Brett: right? Cause it’s an actual redirect, [00:59:48] Christina: Right. Oh, okay. Got it. [00:59:49] Brett: a 301 redirect. Yeah, it’s pretty, it’s pretty awesome. [00:59:53] Brett: I love it. Anyway, that’s it. That’s my whole plug. Um, if you guys want to move on to [01:00:00] Graftitude, we can, we have time for it. [01:00:02] Grapptitude [01:00:02] Jeff: Yeah, let’s do it. [01:00:04] Brett: All right. Um, is Jeff, is this, is the one on the, is the one on the list other than mine, yours, okay, why don’t you kick it off with that? Cause I love this one. [01:00:17] Jeff: Sure. Um, so I have been using, I have been using intense, like, if I’m saying I’m working 10 hour days, which again, I try not to fucking do, I do, I keep busy with other shit. Not unlike you, Erin, and that where it’s just like, I grew up with a dad where it’s like, it never is, never is resting. And, and that’s just the model I learned. [01:00:35] Jeff: The law, I, I think I integrated that I need to follow to be a member of this family. He wasn’t pushing it on me in this case, right? But it was so strong. I didn’t even, I only lived with him in the summers and that’s how strong it was. Anyway. Um, so I was working these 10 hard days. I bet I spent eight of them inside of Jupyter labs, notebooks, um, and doing just. [01:00:54] Jeff: Python stuff, text manipulation stuff. I was building a, a kind of, um, building some [01:01:00] API based scripts that were pulling out all kinds of information to put into like a custom database, and then working with that database and doing all kinds of weird, cool shit with it. Um, and in the past, like I’m not a programmer, like I’m, I’ve, I, you know, as I’ve probably said on this program, like I’m Python literate in that, like I can read it, but not speak it and I can adjust it and I can make it do some things differently than how it’s written, but I’m not going to sit down and write it. [01:01:24] Jeff: ChetchiPT changed that for me for reasons that are good and bad for the world. Um, but for me, it was like, I know how to talk computationally to, to the thing that I need to make the script, whether that’s a person or a thing. Um, Brett, I see you. Uh, and, and I, I can then be, what’s nice is I can just be in relationship with this stuff all by myself for hours at a time. [01:01:46] Jeff: Um, and, and so anyway, I’ve loved this and I, and I typically do work with Python and because I’m, I don’t have like a. Workflow for this stuff, because they didn’t come up as a programmer. I’m very messy. Like I write a script, I run [01:02:00] it. I write another script. Sometimes there’s 16 versions of the script in the folder by the time I’m done. [01:02:03] Jeff: And I get confused about whatever Jupyter notebooks for people that don’t know, um, allow you. To essentially open up like, I don’t know if you call it an IDE, but an environment in your web browser. [01:02:14] Brett: It’s a [01:02:15] Christina: They’re called notebooks. It’s a ruffle, but yeah, or, but yeah, they call them notebooks. Yeah. But yeah, it’s a ruffle. [01:02:20] Jeff: And so you’re, you’re able to open this up and just start running your scripts sequentially. Um, you can, you don’t have to be sequential. [01:02:25] Jeff: You can just have a bunch of scripts in there and run them as you want. You set your variables at the top and, and just start working your way down this notebook, um, to kind of iterate on, on the script or the, or whatever it is you’re trying to work on. It could just be a function. It could [01:02:38] Brett: And the notebook part comes in because you can write, you can literally write out everything that it’s doing and then embed the script and then run [01:02:46] Jeff: You have basically you do everything in these cells. The cell can be marked down. It can be code. Um, the code is executable. Um, and, and there’s all kinds of other customization. But anyway, so the notebooks themselves have changed my [01:03:00] life. Um, because not only am I able to Um, iterate, but I’m able to follow my crazy line of thinking and I’m able to mark where the points where I’m like, yes, this is what I come back to all this other stuff. [01:03:11] Jeff: I’m probably going to want to just delete at some point, but I’m going to come back to this. And it allows me also, when I get mixed up, And I’ve created like three or four notebooks when I only needed to stick with one. Um, it allows me to just go back systematically and, and, and build a new notebook that is everything I need. [01:03:27] Jeff: It works perfectly for all of the ways in which my brain doesn’t work right, like a programmer. Um, and then it also just like amplifies the ways in which it does. And so the, but the cool thing about Jupyter labs, I’ve, I’ve played with Jupyter notebooks for years. Jupyter labs is somewhat newer. It’s not that new. [01:03:43] Jeff: And it allows you to actually [01:03:44] Christina: yeah, they’re the version that you use. Like they updated it. It was, it was earlier. It was, it was sometime in 2023. It got a pretty big update. Sorry, go on. [01:03:53] Jeff: Yeah, well, what’s great about it is a notebook in the, in the, just like notebook sense was just a notebook. It was a web [01:04:00] page, but Jupyter labs allows you to have all these different columns, you can put a terminal in, you can have a couple of notebooks open. You can have a markdown file open. There’s like all this different, uh, you can just completely configure your workspace and you’re never having to leave. [01:04:13] Jeff: I’m not having to dip out to go to my terminal. I’m not having to dip out to go to my text editor. Like everything is there. And man, it. The result of that was I have never started a large initiative that involves me trying to figure out coding, which in the old days was like Stack Exchange, just like grinding in Stack Exchange, getting yelled at, getting helped. [01:04:33] Jeff: And, um, and I don’t, I struggle to finish big things, which is like a huge issue for me. And. Because of this tool, I was able to launch into something that was way more ambitious than I had any right to launch into and then fucking land it because the workflow and the tool just matched my brain perfectly. [01:04:52] Jeff: And I could not be more grateful because what I know now compared to what I knew two months ago when I started this project is like, it’s the kind of [01:05:00] growth I’ve as like a programmatic person for More than a decade. And it was in between the chat GPT and this, it was possible for me to do it, which is like a really cool feeling for me. [01:05:13] Christina: I’m so happy that you had that experience and note, um, uh, the, the, the Jupiter Labs, um, uh, their IDE thing and, and, and like their notebook, um, interface is great. One thing I will point out for anybody out there who, if you are already like really into, um, Visual Studio Code, since 2001 and I put a, oh not 2001, 2021, I put a link in, in our show notes as well. [01:05:36] Christina: The native, um, Jupyter notebook support or notebook support in, in, in code is really, really good. So, um, [01:05:44] Jeff: pretty too. Unlike Jupyter labs. [01:05:47] Christina: Yeah, they take a slightly different approach, so you, some people might prefer, you know, like the, the, the, the, the Jupyter IDE, um, or, or, you know, the notebook approach. But if like, if you, for somebody who already uses a lot of things in VS Code [01:06:00] for writing, for other things, because I know a lot of people who will use VS Code, um, for writing Primarily for writing in Markdown and stuff like that. [01:06:06] Christina: Um, the mark, the, the, the native, um, notebook support is really, really, really good. And then there are things like, for instance, like at, at GitHub, like we even have like a, an issues notebook because there’s a, um, there’s a notebook API available for Visual Studio Code where people can build their own, um, extensions that, that do, um, very specific notebooky things. [01:06:26] Christina: So like, uh, there’s one for GitHub issues, for instance, um, which is great because then you can actually, like, Fuck around with your issues and your PR queries and do all of your testing and stuff there like in your, in your REPL and your text editor without having to [01:06:41] Jeff: like, it’s reproducible. Like I remember the first time I even saw Jupyter, Notebooks was at a, uh, investigative reporters and editors conference. They have, they have a wing called the National Institute of Computer Assisted Reporting. It’s still called that, um, from back in the days when journalists would go rent space at like card, you [01:07:00] know, card computers. [01:07:01] Jeff: Um, but anyway, the LA Times, like, uh, data desk people, they actually not only make data available that they use, but they make Jupyter notebooks available. So you can just start working with it the way they did and kind of follow along. And that’s, that’s a very gracious thing to do. [01:07:17] Brett: Yeah. Nice. [01:07:18] Jeff: mine. [01:07:19] Christina: That’s awesome. [01:07:20] Brett: All right. Christina, I love yours. I want to ask Erin, are you joining us for the Graptitude? I totally neglected to give you a heads up on [01:07:29] Erin: I expected it. Um. [01:07:33] Brett: You expected me to fail? Oh. [01:07:35] Erin: what I, exactly what I meant. I can make it real quick. It has oldie but goodie energy. Um, App Cleaner, [01:07:43] Brett: Oh, [01:07:44] Christina: Yes. [01:07:46] Erin: Right, yeah, so new version of Ableton came out. Wanted to get rid of the older one. I use it all the time. I just used it recently so it was on my, on my mind, but um, App Cleaner, yep. [01:07:58] Jeff: And it just cleans it out.[01:08:00] [01:08:00] Brett: does [01:08:00] Erin: Mm hmm, [01:08:00] Christina: app installer? [01:08:01] Brett: does anyone know what the difference between AppCleaner and AppDelete would be? [01:08:08] Jeff: Is it that app cleaner goes and looks for all the preference files and [01:08:10] Christina: I was going to say, I’ve never used AppDelete. I’ve always just used AppCleaner. [01:08:14] Brett: AppDelete uses like some pretty basic Unix find commands to find like every permutation of an app’s, uh, name or bundle ID and it’s, it’s brute, it’s brute [01:08:29] Jeff: That sounds risky. [01:08:30] Brett: It does, it does a really good job. Um, Hazel also does pretty good app cleaning, just removing the, the, uh, the, uh, the executable and the preference files. [01:08:43] Brett: Um, but I’ve, I’ve, I have not actually tried AppCleaner. [01:08:46] Christina: So AppCleaner, so AppDelete, um, I, I, do you have a link for that one? Because if you search, if you Google for that, uh, obviously, especially now with their AI bullshit, like you can’t find anything. Um, but AppCleaner, I’ve been using [01:09:00] for probably 18 years, I want to say. Um. AppCleaner. AppCleaner. Because it’s a freeware one, um, like it, it, they, they, they recently updated their icon, which is, which is great, but it’s like a free maxsoft. [01:09:11] Christina: net is like, um, where it lives, but like, it used to look like kind of like a recycle, um, like, um, uh, bag, uh, like for, for, uh, for, for your, for your apps. Um, but the, the icon has been updated. Um, [01:09:27] Brett: I found a review of AppDelete that does not link to AppDelete. Um, maybe it doesn’t even exist anymore. [01:09:34] Christina: Yeah, so AppCleaner, because there used to be a lot of other ones, and I can’t remember what they used to be called, but like, most of them don’t, haven’t been updated in a while. Um, and I mean this, and obviously you can use other tools, like CleanMyMac has a good uninstaller built in, and there’s some other things, but what I like about AppCleaner, um, is that like, Ableton is a perfect example. [01:09:54] Christina: Like sometimes, like, things will just be held in, Random fucked up places and their [01:10:00] uninstall programs don’t always work. And sometimes there is an uninstaller and sometimes there’s not. And it’s, uh, like, uh, yeah. So I, I, I’m also like a big plus one on, um, on AppCleaner. [01:10:13] Jeff: awesome. I’m going to try that. [01:10:14] Brett: Can we just talk for like 30 seconds about how generative AI was cool in the beginning, but it feeds off of the contents of the internet and now a non trivial portion of the internet is produced by, by ChatGPT and ChatGPT is feeding off of its own fucked up information and create, like it’s incestuous. [01:10:39] Brett: It’s this like series of inbreeding. [01:10:41] Christina: the, the, the, the, the snake is eating itself. Yeah. Well, and it sucks too, because like some of them are different. So like the, the Microsoft Copilot, not to be confused with GitHub Copilot. Don’t get me started. Um, The, like, which used to be like Bing, Copiler, or whatever, is actually pretty good and is [01:11:00] more up to date on certain things, but, like, to your point, you know, it can, yeah, it’s all kind of like feeding itself, but the Google results, I don’t know what the fuck Google is doing. [01:11:11] Christina: Like, they’re, they’re, they’re so proud. They’re like, we, we, we, we, we invented Transformers. Yeah, but you, you, you didn’t productize it and, and your product sucks. Like the Google, you know, just the AI results that it’ll give you at the beginning, it’s like sometimes they’ll sort of be there, but a lot of times it’s just like a mashup of bad things. [01:11:28] Christina: And I’m like, this is the worst of everything. Like this is genuinely the worst of all of it. [01:11:33] Brett: I run a, I run a plugin in Firefox that gives me chat GPT results in DuckDuckGo. So, and the sidebar, and they are getting progressively worse. Um, like if I’m searching for something that was answered on like StackExchange, I’ll get, I’ll get a legit, Answer, but it won’t be better than DuckDuckGo’s own instant answer version, summarizing the accepted answer from a StackOverflow [01:12:00] question. [01:12:00] Brett: Anyway. [01:12:00] Jeff: That’s awesome. That that still holds up. [01:12:05] Brett: Okay. Uh, Christina, I want to hear about [01:12:07] Christina: Yeah, so mine, and actually you have used this before, so you can talk about it too, but I actually saw this on Hacker News of all places. I hate it when, when good things are found there. I’m kidding. Um, it’s the commenter. It’s the, the, the commenters are the problem there. Not the, not [01:12:24] Jeff: Big time. Oh yeah. I don’t even look at that shit. [01:12:26] Christina: no, but the curation is [01:12:28] Jeff: Love the curation. [01:12:31] Christina: is an app called Monodraw. And it’s an ASCII art editor for Mac, but it makes it really easy to draw like, um, uh, you know, kind of like ASCII charts and other things. And like I, I, [01:12:42] Brett: Not ANSI, but ASCII, [01:12:44] Christina: right. And like, I’ve used, um, like, uh, Mermaid and, and things like that before, obviously, but Mermaid is, is kind of a lot, um, even though GitHub Flavor Markdown, um, does support Mermaid now, yay. [01:12:57] Christina: Um, like, that, you know, um, [01:13:00] That, that’s a lot to kind of keep in mind. But yeah, this is just a really nice app for building, um, ASCII, um, um, you know, charts and, and, um, the way that, that it kind of like, um, the way you can focus in on, you know, the individual aspects that you want, like they have a really good, um, like a tutorial, um, Getting Started thing, which will kind of show you, um, how a lot of different things work in it. [01:13:24] Christina: And it’s very similar how it’s set up to any other, uh, graphics editor, but it’s helping you create things that are actually pure ASCII. So it’s really great. So, um, [01:13:37] Brett: figlet and monodraw, you can make some kickass [01:13:40] Christina: Yeah, and, and, and you could do mind mapping stuff too if you wanted to do it for that. Um, and then what I, I have to say what I appreciate, like what made me buy it, I wasn’t even in a position, like I actually sent this to our, our group, uh, uh, thread. I think I was actually in Austin. I wasn’t actually like in a position to install it on a Mac. [01:13:57] Christina: I, I just, I saw it and I was like, Oh, this looks pretty cool. [01:14:00] I’m going to, I’m, I’m sending this to this, uh, to, to, to our chat to remind myself about it and also to remind myself for, Gratitude, um, but when I was like reading through the, the, the process, like the, the creator of this was like, I don’t have any sort of DRM. [01:14:17] Christina: I don’t, um, you know, I, I trust my users implicitly. I’m not putting any sorts of, um, Anything there. And I was like, okay, instant 10. Like it’s 10 bucks, you know, then the tax, but like when you go to the purchase page, it says Monodrug does not use activation or any other form of DRM. We have complete trust in our customers. [01:14:34] Christina: Fuck yeah. Right. Like, and it’s really hard for app developers as, as you know, more than anyone, Brett, like. To this climate that we’re in, like there was a recent study that came out that shows like most subscription apps don’t make any money and we know that, um, by once apps make even less and, um, you know, people will definitely try to get one over on you and do all kinds of shady shit, which I get because we were talking about downloading stuff illegally earlier and so I’m part of the problem. [01:14:59] Christina: I’m a hypocrite. [01:15:00] I’m not claiming that I’m perfect, but I am saying like when I see any developers make [01:15:04] Jeff: So much negative self talk. [01:15:06] Christina: Well, I’m just being honest. Like I’m not a hypocrite, right? Like I’m a, I mean, I am a hypocrite, but I’m not like. a liar about it, if that makes any sense, right? Like, I’m, I’m self aware enough to know about my hypocrisies, um, and, and call myself out on them. [01:15:19] Christina: But having said that, like, this is an app, like, it’s well designed, it’s well maintained, it’s a good backup, um, it’s 10 bucks, and I really appreciate the fact that, like, you know, they’re being, like, as, like, upfront about it. Yeah, fuck it. We’re not gonna do any of the, the stuff that we could do to maybe make our app Not abused as much. [01:15:41] Christina: So, [01:15:42] Brett: For anyone, for anyone too young to know what ASCII art means, um, I would say it’s, it’s, it’s, It’s artwork using standard characters on your keyboard, and it will only work in fixed width fonts. Um, so if you’re writing a README for a [01:16:00] GitHub repository, or you’re, I don’t know, posting to Usenet, Um, like, you can get away with some, some very interesting artwork that, In, in a variable with font, like most like social media sites will display your, your tweet in or whatever, it’ll, it’ll get screwed up, but you’ve seen this, like I’ve seen Twitter posts. [01:16:21] Brett: that use ASCII art and you can make some crazy stuff with this because it really is like it’s Photoshop for, I mean, you’re not getting layers and filters and all of that because what would you do with them? [01:16:34] Christina: Right, right. But, but, [01:16:35] Brett: it, yeah, [01:16:36] Christina: can do really good stuff. And [01:16:37] Brett: I guess it’s more like, it’s more like Illustrator. It’s more like Illustrator for ASCII art. [01:16:42] Christina: Yeah, actually, that’s a much better, um, probably, um, yeah, it is a lot more like Illustrator. Even the way that the app works is definitely, um, like that. Uh, but, but it’s great. And like, yeah, if you wanted to make ASCII art for some reason, because you like terminal shit, or you want to do a retro game, or again, like you want to make your README file more readable, [01:17:00] or if you’re writing in plain text, All of us, I think, on this panel are fans of, you know, like, like you could put this in, in, in your Jupyter notebook, right? [01:17:10] Christina: Like you could have it alongside this. [01:17:11] Jeff: start putting ASCII art [01:17:13] Christina: I mean, you could, [01:17:14] Jeff: any fucking work done. [01:17:15] Christina: I mean, I mean, I mean, you could, or if you could just like build like something out, like if you just needed to have like a graphical, like overview of your REPL before, you know, you, you were able to kind of click through. It’d probably be super fluid to be completely clear, but it’s there. [01:17:26] Christina: Anyway, it’s a fun [01:17:28] Brett: Alright, uh, last, last one in the round. Um, so I, I’ve used font agent for years, um, cause I have a fairly large font collection and it just, [01:17:40] Jeff: to brag. [01:17:41] Christina: Not to, not to brag or anything. How many, how many of those have you paid for and how many of them have you [01:17:45] Brett: I paid for most of them. Like I, I tend to, I tend to buy font bundles, uh, when they’re available. Like I will, if a font really blows my mind, I will spend money on an individual font, but like, For the stuff I do, [01:18:00] like, I just, I want a selection of handwritten fonts. I want a selection of display, uh, sans serif fonts, etc. [01:18:07] Brett: And so I’ve collected hundreds over the years, and I’ve always used Font Agent, which is not cheap, and has ceased to function. Um, as of Sonoma, it just doesn’t. So I went searching for a new, uh, font manager, and I got a bunch of recommendations. I tried a bunch out. What I ended up on is one called Typeface. [01:18:33] Brett: And it’s just got a really slick UI. It will show you, like, you can punch in your example text. It can show you a font in like, uh, web or book or, or magazine formats. Like you can see how the body text will look and everything. Um, easy to search, easy to tag, easy to categorize. Um, and it basically, for what I was actually [01:19:00] using FontAgent for, it does just as good a job. [01:19:03] Brett: I can’t remember the price. It was not terribly [01:19:06] Christina: It’s not, it’s also, it’s on set up, um, but it’s also not expensive as I recall. Um, cause it is, let me look at it. It is, it’s 37 for one user. [01:19:16] Brett: Yeah, like permalicense, not, not subscription, [01:19:19] Christina: Um, no, yeah, yeah, no, it’s permalicense. It’ll unlock all the pro features and then you get new updates for 12 months. So it’s one of those things, but, but it is a permalicense thing. [01:19:28] Christina: And I don’t, I don’t really recall how often they actually add new features. Like that’s, you know, one of those things that it’s, it’s not like the, like I think like, like [01:19:36] Brett: long as, as long as they keep it functioning, I’m okay. [01:19:39] Christina: know they do and I, because I’ve been using this for a long time because it’s part of set up. And I was similar to you. [01:19:43] Christina: I was using, what was the, um, what was the app that the, the sketch guys had, they sold it. Um, [01:19:53] Brett: I don’t remember, [01:19:54] Christina: there, there was like, there, but there was like a, a font manager app, um, [01:19:58] Brett: was it something [01:20:00] B? Did it have B in [01:20:01] Christina: no, um, and it wasn’t the suitcase cause that’s the really expensive [01:20:05] Brett: Yeah, suitcase is [01:20:07] Christina: Suitcase is stupid, um, [01:20:09] Brett: the court, guys. [01:20:10] Christina: and if people are asking why should you use a font manager instead of using font book, that’s not a bad question. [01:20:15] Christina: Well, here’s the thing. For most people, if you have a small number of fonts, [01:20:18] Brett: Yeah, if [01:20:19] Christina: font book is [01:20:19] Brett: got 20 to 50 fonts, font book is great. If you have 300, 400 fonts, [01:20:24] Christina: right. [01:20:25] Brett: book is unmanageable. [01:20:27] Christina: and the issue is that, um, uh, what happens is, and it’s less of an issue as computers get more and more powerful, but the issue is, is that every time you load an application that can have access to fonts, it takes forever to load all those resources. [01:20:40] Christina: And so it can slow things down. And so if you’re using, you know, Photoshop, or if you’re using Illustrator, or if you’re using another design program, like that can really become a bottleneck, um, and slow things down. So, um, again, this is like, It’s becoming less of an issue, especially like Adobe products now, you kind of don’t need it because of the way that their cloud font stuff works. [01:20:59] Christina: You can kind of [01:21:00] enable sets and whatnot, but that’s sort of the thing you can do with, with a font manager is you can kind of say, okay, I want to enable these sets for right now. And so now when I’m using this particular context, it will have these enabled because this is what I’m using for this project, but I don’t need to use all these other ones. [01:21:14] Christina: But I do know, for instance, like, but there’s some, for instance, like, Mymonospace fonts that I use for coding and whatnot. I have those installed in FontBook all times, right? But there are, if you’ve got like, if you’re like Brett and I and you’re a font hoarder and you’ve got like thousands and thousands of variants and I’m like, I don’t need this all the time, but I would like to potentially be able to browse these, um, in an easy to access way. [01:21:38] Christina: Something like Typeface is great. What I also like about Typeface is that it does a good job of being able to, um, go through like, uh, Google fonts and other. Uh, services like that and help you easily download from there, which you can do through Homebrew and other sources, but like this is visual. So, [01:21:55] Brett: Yeah. And it’s, it’s really, it’s beautiful night. Like as far as a Mac app [01:22:00] goes, it’s got all your nice, smooth transitions and like, and native UE. And yeah, it’s, it was the best that I tried. I am enjoying it. And like you said, like being able to temporarily activate like a set of fonts. Uh, when you need them without like with font agent, I was, I was I would go through my reboot process and for about five minutes after a reboot, it would just be notification after notification of like, we’ve activated all of these fonts that you didn’t specifically, they’re auto activated, but I, it got messy, it got real messy. [01:22:36] Brett: So I’m enjoying, Typeface is cheaper and simpler and I enjoy it. [01:22:42] Erin: Did you hear about this from Merlin? [01:22:44] Brett: I did not, did you? [01:22:46] Erin: I think so, yeah. [01:22:48] Brett: I heard, I heard about it, I asked the question, I was like, Fontage didn’t stop working for me on Mastodon, what are you guys using? And Mastodon is I know it’s not for everybody. I know it’s mostly [01:23:00] for nerds, um, tech people, but I get answers so quickly to all of life’s problems. [01:23:09] Brett: Um, like I got into vinegars recently. I was a hot sauce guy and a coffee guy and now I’m apparently a vinegar guy and got all these recommendations for like where to buy Vermont vinegars and Mastodon’s just a font of information for me. [01:23:26] Jeff: Oh, font. Oh, shit. [01:23:28] Erin: I don’t get it. [01:23:30] Jeff: Byes, bell, brings it home, rings [01:23:32] Christina: I love it. I love it. [01:23:34] Brett: right, well, Erin, thanks for being [01:23:36] Jeff: Erin, it was so nice to meet [01:23:38] Erin: My pleasure. My pleasure. [01:23:40] Christina: us. [01:23:41] Brett: You guys get some sleep. [01:23:43] Jeff: You get some sleep. [01:23:44] Christina: You all get some sleep, fuckers. [01:23:46] Brett: me what to do. [01:23:48] Erin: Bye.

The gang waxes nostalgic about classic viral sites, discusses the best RSS readers, and gets back into the Mental Health Corner after a couple weeks off. Sponsor Hims is changing men’s healthcare by providing simple and convenient access to science-backed treatments for erectile dysfunction, hair loss, weight loss, and more. Start your free online visit today at hims.com/overtired. Show Links Who TF Did I Marry Dimspire.me-Dimspirations for daily life Reeder MarsEdit Upcoming Giveaways on BrettTerpstra.com Fuck Yeah Corrections ffWorks ffmpeg Permute Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript It’s Fine, I’m OK [00:00:00] [00:00:04] Brett: This episode is brought to you by HIM. Stay tuned for more info and welcome to Overtired. It’s great to have you back. I’m here with, Jeff Severance Gunsel and Christina Warren. welcome back. It’s been a couple weeks. [00:00:18] Jeff: Thank you. Hi, everybody. [00:00:20] Brett: So we’ve been starting with Grappitude and I gotta say, like, So, starting with Graptitude has meant that for the last two episodes we haven’t had the Mental Health Corner. And, and honestly, without the Mental Health Corner, I don’t want to do this show anymore. [00:00:37] Jeff: Yeah, I think where we landed, I don’t know if this was a complete chat in our in our thread, but I think where we landed was to switch it back, but just to somehow [00:00:45] Brett: To [00:00:46] Jeff: police ourselves. [00:00:47] Brett: yeah, [00:00:48] Christina: exactly. We’re gonna, we’re gonna [00:00:49] Brett: don’t, we don’t need 45 minutes for, for a mental health coroner. We, we can keep that, we can keep it down to five minutes per person, plus a little chat, and get us [00:01:00] down to like, no more than half the [00:01:01] Jeff: we barely even get to Taylor Swift [00:01:03] Brett: Right, I know, it’s, [00:01:05] Jeff: But the whole world kind of overtook us, really. [00:01:08] Christina: Honestly, they did and now it’s like not even funny to be like, oh, this is a Taylor Swift podcast because people are like, oh. Oh, really? Another one? And I’m like, [00:01:15] Jeff: You think it’s good SEO? [00:01:17] Christina: right. And, and, and it’s like, like trying to explain to people, it’s like, no, it’s actually not. That’s sort of the joke. [00:01:22] Christina: Uh, [00:01:22] Jeff: I tried to get us to change it to Kat Williams, but go ahead. Sorry, Christina. [00:01:26] TikTok and Who TF Did I Marry [00:01:26] Christina: no, I mean, look, honestly, Oh, okay. Have you guys seen, if we were going to switch it to something, if we were going to have a new hyperfixation, would it, it would be the, who the fuck should I marry TikTok lady? [00:01:36] Brett: Haven’t [00:01:36] Jeff: is that? I don’t know. [00:01:39] Christina: I’m going to have to explain this to you. Um, we can do it after mental health corner. Yeah. [00:01:42] Jeff: because of your understandable, exasperated, Oh my God. I have completely fucked my TikTok algorithm, which with like the people who do live feeds from oil rigs and the like, there’s some guys, there’s some guys who are just cutting up lumber. Uh, every night live, uh, as that, [00:02:00] and now baby monkeys. [00:02:01] Jeff: That’s my TikTok. So, [00:02:02] Brett: this, was this because of intentional decisions? How’d [00:02:05] Jeff: oh, hell yeah. I’ve got, I love TikTok and I love how I can just be like, you know what, right now I’m really into oil rigs and, and lumber mills, and then sometimes I’m just into Cat Williams and, uh, and let’s see, like talking dogs, like, and you know what, I don’t mind TikTok knows me. Okay. Sorry. I’ll stop there. [00:02:22] Jeff: But Christina, can you tell me now what this is? Cause I’m always looking [00:02:26] Christina: Yeah, so, so this is, uh, I’ll be very brief on this, but, um, we’ll have a link in the show notes to a Rolling Stone thing, because this is the first thing I found SEO wise that looked somewhat decent. There are full, if you want to watch the whole thing, you can watch it on her TikTok, but people have also uploaded although She should have, so she can get some of the YouTube views, um, and that way you can play it on full time, uh, like, like, like 2x speed. [00:02:49] Christina: Basically, this woman, she goes by Risa M. Tisa. Um, last week, she started, or maybe she started it, like, uh, a little bit before that. I, I heard about it on, like, Monday. And [00:03:00] then it’s, it’s blown up since then. Basically she’s put out a 50 plus, and yes, I’m, I’m, this is accurate, 50 plus part series on TikTok called Who TF Did I Marry? [00:03:11] Christina: And basically talking about the, the, this pathological liar that she married. And it’s insane. It’s like the most insane story. So the story is like six hours long. [00:03:20] Jeff: Wow. [00:03:21] Christina: It’s nuts. And in the details, like all the things that are psychologically wrong with this man, um, and I looked in our, I peeped our notes, like talking about abusive partners, Brett, like this guy, holy fucking shit. [00:03:34] Christina: We’re talking like making up relative deaths, making up relatives, fake phone calls to no one, fake bank accounts, pretending to buy a house when you don’t actually have the money for said house, completely faking what career he had, having multiple side checks. Being previously married in ways he didn’t say before. [00:03:51] Christina: Like, literally, like this man that she married lied about everything. Everything. [00:04:00] And then lied about the lie. [00:04:01] Jeff: George Santos? [00:04:03] Brett: I, I had, [00:04:05] Christina: someone [00:04:05] Brett: I had, I had a, I had a pathological liar girlfriend and like, it wasn’t like, honestly, obviously it wasn’t as involved as getting married to someone, but in, in retrospect, I could not believe the stuff she lied about. Like, literally, her entire life was a fabrication. Stuff that, what, like, you wouldn’t, why, why would you even lie about it? [00:04:28] Brett: She just made shit up for the sake of making shit up. [00:04:31] Christina: Yeah, totally. Um, and, and, and this, this guy, I think it’s kind of a mix of those things. But anyway, the, the interesting thing is, like, she does take some responsibility because there’s some stuff and you’re like, all right, look, girl, like I get that like you, it was the pandemic and you were lonely and like you wanted to have a baby and, and all kinds of shit. [00:04:46] Christina: Um, uh, but, uh, side note, he, she had a miscarriage, but then he told like the few family members he was talking to, because most of them cut him off, um, that, that she had the baby and that then when they were getting divorced, he was going to be fighting her for custody. [00:05:00] Even though, like, like, like, like, nuts, right? [00:05:03] Christina: So this whole thing is fucking crazy. So, um, It’s basically, you guys know that Zola, remember the Zola Twitter thread, right? [00:05:12] Jeff: No. [00:05:14] Christina: Turn. It was a [00:05:15] Brett: not [00:05:16] Jeff: It’s called X. [00:05:17] Christina: no. Well, it but, but this was back when it was very much Twitter and it was even turned into an a 24 film. So, [00:05:26] Jeff: okay, got it, got it, [00:05:27] Christina: um, basically is this, um, this stripper who like this, this, she met like this, this white girl at Hooters, who then like took her basically on like a, a trap trip, um, uh, with a bunch of, uh, Johns and like a bunch of shit went down. [00:05:41] Christina: It’s like the most insane. It’s this famous viral tweet that turned into a movie. Anyway, this is like Zola, but without the sex work. Um, but it’s that sort of like viral thing where like everybody’s watching this fucking, um, the interesting thing here from like a social perspective is you have millions and millions of views [00:06:00] on this per installment. [00:06:01] Christina: So she’s got 50 plus installments. Millions of people are watching this thing. Um, it, it’s, you know, obviously not on your TikToks, but it’s on mine and it’s on. Basically everybody I knows and, um, then people, of course, as they do, can’t not be fucking weirdos online. So even though she was very clear about the fact that she was like, I don’t want to like uncover the real people behind this. [00:06:23] Christina: Of course, that’s the very first thing the internet’s going to do. And then be very proud of themselves when you have like women being like, Oh, we’re outing abusers. And this is Legion, who is, is, is what she’d call the guy. His name is Jerome. He’s now putting his TikTok because of course he is. Um, anyway, the, the, like. [00:06:40] Christina: Also, she’s from Atlanta, and, and so, she goes into ridiculous amounts of detail about some of the things. Like, the first thing she said, she was like, oh yeah, you know, our first date was at the Cheesecake Factory at Perimeter Mall, and I’m like, I fucking worked at Perimeter Mall. I’ve been to that Cheesecake [00:06:54] Jeff: Perimeter Mall, that’s quite a name. [00:06:56] Christina: Perimeter, yeah, um, yeah, Perimeter, sorry, [00:07:00] I didn’t enunciate well enough. [00:07:01] Christina: Um, but I’m like, I worked at that mall, I worked at the Abercrombie at that mall, I worked at the Best Buy across the street from that mall, [00:07:08] Jeff: Oh man, how have we not talked about this? [00:07:10] Brett: do they, when the, the rent a cops at the mall go out on patrol, do they say, I’m gonna secure the perimeter? Do [00:07:19] Jeff: Oh my god. [00:07:20] Brett: have [00:07:21] Christina: so like, the rent a cops are very, very laid back. [00:07:26] Jeff: Have I ever told y’all the story of [00:07:28] Christina: They did back in the day. [00:07:31] Been Caught Stealing [00:07:31] Jeff: Have I ever told the story in this podcast of when I was arrested by, uh, thanks to a secret shopper, uh, for shoplifting? [00:07:37] Christina: No. [00:07:38] Brett: I feel like [00:07:39] Jeff: I’ve finally, [00:07:39] Christina: and where did you shoplift from? And where, and where did you shoplift [00:07:42] Jeff: it was a grocery store, it was a grocery store in Minot, North Dakota. I, you know, we can put it on the topic list for later. [00:07:48] Jeff: I finally told, now both of my boys know, so I feel like I can tell it on a podcast. [00:07:52] Brett: Maybe you told this story to me over tacos last time I was in [00:07:56] Jeff: I think that’s likely, I don’t think I would have told it on the podcast, but I’m ready. It [00:08:00] doesn’t have to be, well this could be a teaser for the next episode, it doesn’t have to be in this [00:08:02] Christina: It doesn’t have to be this one. No, but I need to know about this. Uh, so I mean, I, I, I never, I’ve never shoplifted, um, the, that’s the one thing I’ve never done. I’ve never shoplifted. Um, I’ve stole, I’ve, you know, like stolen plenty of things from, from digital. [00:08:16] Christina: You wouldn’t download a car. Oh. But I would. Um, but like, you know, I would def, I would definitely download a virtual car. Um. But I’ve never shoplifted. Not because I even am that opposed to it. I mean, I am, but like, I’m not. Like, I’m indifferent is what I should say. If it’s not my store, I’m going to be completely selfish. [00:08:36] Christina: I kind of don’t care. But, um, Uh, you know, you shouldn’t steal from mom and pops or whatever, like, I’m not [00:08:43] Jeff: oh yeah, no no, for sure. [00:08:44] Christina: you know what I mean? I’m indifferent is what I’m trying to say. Um, but, [00:08:48] Jeff: And I want to be clear, the last time I shoplifted was this story, and it was in, uh, 1998. It’s gonna be clear for the record, any perspective, you know, employers, it’s over. [00:08:58] Christina: statute of limitations actually does apply [00:09:00] here. No, I’m just saying, like, for me, it wasn’t, like, a moral reason why I never shoplifted. I just knew that I would get caught, [00:09:06] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:09:07] Brett: Yeah, I, I was always getting in trouble for shit other people did. I didn’t need to tempt fate. Um, and, and I never, I never really got, like, a rush out of shoplifting. Like, I tried it and it, like, other people would, like, do it for the thrill of it. Um, do you guys remember a little craze called wahooing? [00:09:26] Jeff: Oh, uh, remind me. I mean, I think, I think I’m familiar. [00:09:30] Brett: you bring something sizable up to the checkout at the counter, and when they ring it up, you just yell Wahoo and you run out of the store, and to, to me that was a little more interesting than trying to like hide things in a trench coat, um, and half, half the time, half the time, half the time we would go back and, and just pay for it, cause it wasn’t about like, we couldn’t afford bread, so we were shoplifting to feed our families, we were just You know, [00:10:00] teenagers. [00:10:01] Christina: you’re just being, yeah, no, I mean, I, I never did that and I never dined and dashed, although we did do a thing once when I was 16 where we wanted to see how many restaurants we could get kicked out of in 24 hours by like starting fake fights and like Denny’s and IHOP and, um, it is, it’s really hard to get kicked out of an IHOP. [00:10:18] Christina: Um. Waffle House, too. Well, we didn’t even try at Waffle House. Waffle House, we, we would know better than trying there, because they’re not, like, just yelling at one another. Like, also, [00:10:28] Jeff: there’s a fight? [00:10:29] Christina: well, [00:10:29] Brett: waitstaff would just knife [00:10:31] Christina: they would, and the thing is, too, is that you respect the Waffle House, like, staff. Like, I respected them a lot, and you, you fucking should, for fucking real. [00:10:39] Christina: And, [00:10:40] Brett: basically frontline workers. [00:10:42] Christina: I mean, honestly, um, one of my favorite Waffle House, uh, waitresses, she was also a stripper at like the strip club that was nearby, but she had a temper, really hot girl. And so they would like, she would lose her job as a stripper and then she’d come back to Waffle House. And then Waffle House like blacklisted her a few times, but this [00:11:00] was before their computer systems could really do that. [00:11:01] Christina: So she just lied about who she was and she’d go to a different store, but she’d also been blacklisted by IHOP, I think. And, um, and her boyfriend was a drug dealer and had all kinds of really expensive, um, sound equipment and she and I used to talk about like high end stereo equipment all the time, which is a weird thing to do when you’re drunk at four o’clock in the morning. [00:11:19] Christina: Um, but like, mean, if you’re two hot girls though, it kind of is. Um, but anyway, [00:11:28] Jeff: gendered, but I’m just speaking from my lived experience. [00:11:32] Christina: anyway, that’s a tangent, but yeah, but yeah, um, I, I never, I never did wahooing, but we did try, we would try to like get kicked out of restaurants. Um. Because that would, that was just [00:11:43] Jeff: That sounds stressful as hell to me, like I, everything I did wrong I did quietly, when really the only thing I did like technically wrong was shoplifting and then immediately after I stopped that I started going illegally to Iraq. It was just like, I had to be breaking the law somehow. [00:11:56] Christina: Well, I mean, I mean, which is impressive. You go from like, like, like [00:12:00] stealing something from a grocery store, which we got to talk about this on another episode. I need to like dig into the psychology here, to then sneaking into another country. Like, wow. Like, just the levels there. I’m like, I’m stealing some gum to I’m literally breaking, like, I’m literally crossing the border into a country that I’m not supposed to [00:12:19] Jeff: With, with medical supplies that I’m smuggling in because it’s illegal for Americans to be there. This is, for anyone who’s wondering, this is pre war. This is during the sanctions. It wasn’t illegal for Americans to be there once there were [00:12:30] Christina: What, right, once the war was there, then it’s like, oh no, come on over. Uh, uh, want a gun? w want [00:12:34] Jeff: what’s illegal about Abu Ghraib? [00:12:36] Jeff: No, it’s fine. Come on in. [00:12:37] Christina: fine. Come on in. We’ll do it. But yeah, before that, the sanctions. Yeah, [00:12:40] Jeff: Yes. Anyway, okay. We’ll, we’ll pin that. Um, it is, I will just say as a added teaser, um, this, this mostly happened on tour because when you’re on tour, you, you feel it’s like Deadwood. There’s no, no law at all. And uh, and my brother and I both had this. This tendency, we’ll call it. And my brother had a great story, [00:13:00] which I’ll share, but that I recently had drafted up by Dali. [00:13:03] Jeff: Um, uh, and, and I’m trying to draft up other stories from being on tour, which I mentioned when Merlin was on, but that was one. And I’ll talk about that when we, that’ll be the show art when we go. [00:13:12] Christina: awesome. All right. [00:13:14] Brett: so I [00:13:14] Jeff: my brother should be our guest. Cause he and I were the shoplifters together. [00:13:18] Brett: I was telling you guys about some weird dreams I had and it would be amazing to get Dali to illustrate those [00:13:26] Jeff: I’ve been doing it. I’ve been doing it with my weird dreams. I’ve been doing it with my weird dreams. I love it. [00:13:31] Mental Health Corner (returns!) [00:13:31] Brett: should we do a mental health corner? [00:13:32] Christina: let’s do [00:13:33] Brett: Okay, um, who wants to start? [00:13:37] Jeff: I don’t mind starting unless Christina. Okay. First, I’m just gonna say I have a giant thing of water. Hear that? And, and this is part of taking care of [00:13:46] Brett: bigger than his head. [00:13:47] Jeff: working outside today. I’m building a little loft storage in my in my garage. And when I’m working outside, I might Kids call this Aquachungus. [00:13:54] Jeff: It’s a half gallon, uh, water bottle, and I’m going to be drinking from it to stay hydrated in this [00:14:00] podcast, and every time you hear it, you know I’m taking care of my mental health, uh, because that’s really important. Here I go. Mmmmm. [00:14:06] Christina: Drink, drink, drink, drink, drink. [00:14:09] Jeff: drink, drink. Uh, yeah, okay, and this, also, Aquachungus has a, a hook on it for some reason? [00:14:14] Jeff: I don’t really know what I’m supposed to do [00:14:15] Christina: think that, [00:14:16] Jeff: on my [00:14:16] Christina: that I, maybe it’s supposed to be able to like, hang on to like a, I don’t know, like, like a boat or something. I don’t know, like a car. I don’t know. [00:14:25] Brett: Yeah, for, for those listening, it’s not so much a hook as it is an anchor with like two prongs [00:14:31] Jeff: Yeah, I think that this could be a whole new thing we do on this podcast, which is describe not interesting objects that nobody can see. [00:14:36] Brett: Have you ever, have you, have you ever seen described porn? They’re, they make, they make these, these, like Pornhub has them for visually impaired people where like you can hear the soundtrack and like if you are. [00:14:52] Brett: If you are visually abled, you can see it, but there’s this like soothing voice over the top of it that describes in [00:15:00] explicit detail exactly what is happening in every scene, I find it very humorous. [00:15:05] Jeff: That’s interesting. [00:15:06] Christina: A 10 inch thick cock [00:15:08] Brett: Yeah, exactly. [00:15:09] Christina: its way into a tight, yeah. I, I, I, [00:15:12] Jeff: Yeah. That’s that’s interesting, [00:15:15] Christina: no, is it, is it done like seriously, or is this, like, is this actually an accessibility [00:15:18] Brett: No, it’s, yeah, it’s an accessibility thing [00:15:20] Christina: I mean, well, the reason I was asking is because one of the things I have appreciated about Pornhub over the years is that, um, even though they’re very thirsty and very aggressive to try to make you write about every stupid little, um, like publicity stunt they do, or at least they did back in the day. [00:15:36] Christina: I don’t know if that’s true anymore. Would be that they did have some pretty funny publicity stunts. So I could see that, that being as like a thing where they’re like, Oh yeah, we’re going to release this as a feature and do a, you know, press release about it, but then also maybe actually still have it as like a true accessibility thing too, which not going to lie, like. [00:15:55] Christina: There’s a market for it, you [00:15:57] Jeff: I mean, people read VC Andrews books. [00:15:59] Christina: [00:16:00] Uh, no fucking Oh, Fanfic is incredibly popular, and not to mention, like, like, the most read, like, novels, like, the books that people sell that make the most money are the fucking smutty ass, like, weird, like, dragon, like, romance shit aimed at women. Yeah. [00:16:17] Jeff: That’s like, okay, I will do my mental health check-in, but you made me think of this. Go ahead Brett. You have [00:16:21] Brett: I just want to point out that this is why our mental health sections go for 45 minutes because, because half the podcast is like embedded in the mental [00:16:30] Christina: Fair enough. Totally. I will say, at this point, we can very clearly siphon this off now. I was like, this is opening banter. And then we can go [00:16:38] Jeff: that’s right. That’s right, that’s right. Uh, all I’ve really done is water so far. So I’m just gonna quick say this. You know, I’ve, I’ve been obsessed all year with The Godfather. I re-watched it. I, I watched the, um, the, the series, the limited series, the offer about bringing it to screen. Um, and I’m now reading a. [00:16:54] Jeff: Book that’s just kind of a culmination of all other sort of books and reporting of the making of the Godfather. What [00:17:00] I never realized, I knew Mario Puzo’s book was like, at the time, was selling more copies than the Bible. I didn’t realize how completely inane and insane the sex scenes are in [00:17:10] Christina: Oh, they are. [00:17:11] Jeff: excerpts of them. [00:17:12] Jeff: And I was just like, oh, I see why it was the biggest selling book. And it [00:17:15] Christina: Oh, totally. No, no. There’s this whole thing about like, like, like, uh, the woman that, that, uh, that Sonny fucks at the wedding, um, is, uh, it like has like a really big pussy. Like, and, and, and that’s why, like, like it, it’s been, it’s been difficult for other men, like, to be able to like fill her well, and that’s why, like, she has to like, like, like fuck. [00:17:32] Brett: is described porn. Okay. [00:17:34] Jeff: it, [00:17:35] Christina: I, I, I, I, so, um, I’m not trying to interrupt you, I’m gonna, I’ll talk about this after our Mental Health Corner thing, Jeff, but I do want to pick up on your Godfather [00:17:43] Jeff: Okay. [00:17:44] Christina: after this, because I want to know what book you’re reading, uh, because I have thoughts, but anyway, sorry, go on. [00:17:48] Brett: I, I do think our show title is described porn. [00:17:52] Christina: Yes, sponsored by HIMSS, [00:17:55] Jeff: Did you? [00:17:59] Brett: Oh [00:18:00] shit. Yeah. [00:18:02] Jeff: Oh my god. Okay. So, um, my, my mental health corner topic is like, this has been true of me for a while, but I’ve been, I’ve been experiencing it again. There’s a, there’s a tendency in my friends, most of them, um, Most of them are men, identify as men. A couple of them are women, identify as women. And it fucking makes me crazy. [00:18:21] Jeff: And it’s someone to say it, and I’m gonna ask you a question. I can’t stand it when somebody tells me in the context of our friendship, something that’s going on with them that’s really hard, especially when there’s someone who maybe doesn’t even share that stuff that often. And now here they are, right? [00:18:35] Jeff: They’re telling you about something that’s happened to them, something that’s happening inside them, whatever. It’s very, very, very hard. And you say the thing. That you say, which is like, I’m really sorry this is happening to you. Or you say, whatever it is you say, that’s like an empathy thing. Uh, and, and what they say back is. [00:18:50] Jeff: I mean, it’s okay. Right? Which I find to be, I understand why it happens. I’m not even, I’m not judging it. Right? The older I [00:19:00] get and, uh, the older I get, the more frustrated I am with it because, and I realized it’s not because I care about them. It’s because as a friend, I’m, I’m walled out right there, right? [00:19:13] Jeff: Like you’ve told me this stuff and now you go, it’s fine. Like, and I mean, I don’t mean like that happens sometimes. Sometimes it is fine. Right? Like, I’m not, I’m not saying every time that happens, this is triggers this thing in me, but I’ve found that like, it’s, it’s. It’s really hard to feel, uh, feel the connection that I felt when I was talking to them. [00:19:32] Jeff: If when you acknowledge or reflect that thing back in a way that is totally normal inside your friendship, it’s not, you know, I’m not like, it’s, it doesn’t feel like I’m doing that part wrong. Um, and then it’s just, ah, it’s okay. It’s [00:19:43] Brett: Is this a Midwest thing, do you think? [00:19:46] Jeff: I mean, so I, no, I mean, I have a friend, [00:19:48] Christina: a Protestant thing, I think. [00:19:50] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, right, right, right. [00:19:52] Jeff: No, I mean, I’ve had it from people all over the world that are my friends. Um, and, uh, and so anyway, I was curious, I was curious for both of you. [00:20:00] Um, I know that for me, it is hard to hear someone say back to me after I’ve told them something hard. Like, that sounds really That sucks. Sounds really hard. Like I understand that that can be a weird thing to receive sometimes, but I think my typical response is like, yeah, shit. [00:20:18] Jeff: Thank you. [00:20:18] Brett: Yeah, exactly. That’s mine too, is like, yeah, it is. [00:20:22] Jeff: and Christina, what about you? [00:20:23] Christina: well, it varies, because I mean, I think that it’d be more healthy if I said thank you, or does. But I think a lot of times, my instinctual response is not to be like, is honestly like, it’s fine, it’s whatever. Um, and I [00:20:40] Jeff: I think. [00:20:41] Christina: Right, and to me, like, I think that it isn’t so much because I’m like, oh, I don’t want to let you in, um, because of the fact that I’m sharing it with you at all means that I’ve let you in. [00:20:51] Christina: It just means that I’m, at least the way I intended, and maybe it doesn’t come across this way, um, so I agree, I think the way that you two respond is better, but I think the reason [00:21:00] I’m like, yeah, it’s whatever, it’s fine, it’s whatever, whatever, is because I’m kind of like, I’ve shared this with you, but I’m not necessarily in a place where I know that I can solve this or I can do anything about it. [00:21:12] Christina: So, you know, [00:21:14] Jeff: I’m super interested, I’m super interested in this because I, I, I’m thinking about, you’re causing me to think about things I hadn’t thought, so that doesn’t trigger me in the same way. Because I, here’s how I hear that, and I want to see if this is partly how you feel like you mean it when you say it. How I hear that is like, yeah, it’s fine, whatever. [00:21:30] Jeff: Fuck. It’s like, you know, like, it’s just like, it’s to me, that’s a version of saying, yeah, it fucking sucks. Right. Um, it’s, it’s the thing. It’s not when someone does the, like, it’s okay. Literally those words seem to be the pathological thing. Whether your first language is, is English or not. It’s my experience. [00:21:45] Jeff: And for me, it’s not that I want more, right? It’s not like, um, no, don’t cut me off. It’s kind of like, it’s just like a hard landing. It’s like, wait, what happened? [00:21:55] Christina: yeah. No, I think you’re right. I mean, I think sometimes though, there’s a [00:22:00] weird thing too where I think, and, and you’re, you are, I think, probably right, and to pick up on this and, and right to have feelings about it, which is sometimes I think we can share things with people. And we can be perceptive, you know, and we can be like that vulnerable to do it, but we are then not vulnerable enough to continue to open up to it. [00:22:18] Christina: So it’s like, I can share this to you. I can share this with you, but I don’t want to have a conversation about this. Right? Like I can say, and that happens sometimes where I’m like, I’m going to share this with you, but you know what? I do not want to talk any further about it. I don’t want to hear you even like, it’s great for you to say, Oh, I’m so sorry about that. [00:22:32] Christina: But if you want to talk more in depth, because people always like, Oh, well, you know, I’m here for you if you want to talk. And a lot of times I’m like, I appreciate that. I really don’t. You know, or, or, or like, like, I, it’s been enough for me. Like I’ve, I’ve exalted my vulnerability for the day. I’ve been telling you this thing. [00:22:47] Christina: I I’m not yet in a place where I can go beyond that. [00:22:50] Brett: yeah, now that you say it like that, I realize what I often do is I will, like, you know me, I, I share everything with everybody. Um, and I’ll share something [00:23:00] really vulnerable and they will react the way Jeff does, like, that really sucks for you. I’m sorry. And I will say, [00:23:07] Jeff: Sucks to be you. [00:23:08] Brett: no, I, I will say. I will say, yeah, thank you. [00:23:12] Brett: It does suck. And then immediately change the subject. Like I don’t generally, I don’t generally want to go into depth about everything that is, all the things I wear on my sleeve. Like I don’t mind the acknowledgement, but I’m not looking for an in depth conversation most of the time. [00:23:28] Jeff: I so relate to that. And I, to Christina’s point, I will sometimes say this probably happens more in writing if I’m like texting with a friend, I will sometimes say like, Look, I don’t need a response to this. But I just need to share this, because let’s be honest, the worst way to respond when you have shared something with somebody is for that person to then go down any of the roads that are like solutioneering or like, you know, whatever, like, I don’t want that shit. [00:23:50] Jeff: And I should And like, and I don’t mean to, I don’t mean to present what I’m saying as like, something I think is right or true, but I will say, I will say that in [00:24:00] fairness, I will choose not to share something more often than not, so I’m not, you know, like, if I, if I have kind of talked and someone says, shit, I’m sorry, that sucks, it’s like, I, I actually really needed to hear exactly that, and I don’t want any more than that, you [00:24:16] Brett: My, uh, my partner, Elle, is a problem solver. Like, their, their instinct, as soon as they hear something’s wrong, they look for solutions. And that is so often not what I need. [00:24:28] Christina: I, I, I, I can make that mistake sometimes too, and I think I’ve gotten better with it, but it depends on the person. And I know that can annoy people. My mom is like that. My mom is a problem solver, but she does know enough, and like, you know, she’s a problem solver. I’m a counselor, so she doesn’t do that, like, with people that she’s just listening to, to talk. [00:24:47] Christina: I mean, that’s one of the reasons why I think she became a counselor is because she’s very good at that naturally. Um, but with, like, me and my sister and my dad, like, you know, because she wants to help so badly, she immediately goes into the, [00:25:00] okay, well, how can we fix this mode? And I, I would have to oftentimes, like, tell her as a kid, um, or, you know, teenager, or sometimes even as an adult, although she’s a lot better, uh, as an adult. [00:25:10] Christina: As adults we’re much more communicative where I’m like, no, I actually just need you to like be my mom and just listen. Like, I don’t, I don’t want any, you know, advice. Um, because I know probably what I need to do or what my options are. Uh, I don’t want to go down that road right now because that’s what’s stressing me out. [00:25:28] Christina: You know, like I think for a lot of people, [00:25:31] Jeff: And it misses what I think is true about being human, which is that for the hardest things, what you need is to be able to describe them and say them out loud. And then you, uh, something in you starts to work on that a little bit. There’s something about having said it that isn’t always going to be the solution, but it’s like, I think when people go straight into solutions, which I’ve certainly been guilty of, I think it, it forgets the. [00:25:52] Jeff: Importance of just saying something out loud and what that does for a person. I mean, hence therapy, right? Sometimes, sometimes you need, you do need your therapist to talk back, [00:26:00] but [00:26:02] Brett: Yeah. [00:26:03] Jeff: yeah, so anyway, I, I’ve just been thinking about that cause I’ve run into it a couple of times. And again, like I say, like some 49 now, um, a lot of the friendships I’m talking about where this happens are very old friendships, right? Where I know the arc of their lives. I know I know what it looks like when things are really bad or really hard. [00:26:19] Jeff: I know when it’s not okay. And, and we’re close enough that it, it would be, some of us have talked about it to a really great effect where it’s fine to just, you don’t have to say anything back. If I, if I just register that I’m hearing you, but not, I don’t do it. I like the thing. I don’t do an overwrought or, you know, and if anything, I understate it by saying like, it fucking sucks. [00:26:38] Jeff: I’m sorry. You know, like, uh, but, uh, I’ve found that in a lot of older relationships, that’s where it. Can be hard. But I mean, how I deal with that actually is just to be like, it’s not okay. You just spent 20 minutes talking to you about something. It’s totally not okay. We don’t talk about it anymore, but I’m just going to be the one that says it’s not okay. [00:26:57] Jeff: And I get why you’re saying [00:27:00] let’s move on. Like that is how I handle it to be clear. Like I don’t, um, I don’t just, uh, seethe, but that’s my, that’s my bet. [00:27:09] Brett: Alright. [00:27:10] Jeff: Drink. [00:27:11] Brett: Drink. Um, I’ll go next. I will effort to keep it short. Um, I have had insomnia for a couple months now. Um, I, for a long time, was sleeping every other night. Um, but then like, on the off nights, I would wake up around 12 or 1 and then just be awake, uh, for the rest of the night. So I was functioning on 3 to 4 hours of sleep max, um, every other night. [00:27:41] Brett: And it was really dragging me down, so I talked to my psychiatrist. We’ve gone through a couple meds. The first ones actually made it worse. I can’t remember the name of what I just started last night, but it was the first night I slept in the last six days. And I’m not manic, just to [00:28:00] be clear. Like I’m not, none of the other symptoms are there other than sleeplessness. [00:28:06] Brett: I just, for some reason. Have stopped sleeping. I think it might be circadian rhythms as the days get longer. I think my system might just be off. Um, so I’m using like a, a full spectrum light in the mornings to try to like shake this. But anyway, um, second point, I had my first actual IFS session on Tuesday. [00:28:29] Brett: Um, [00:28:29] Jeff: family systems. [00:28:30] Brett: Internal family systems. It was, it was very interesting. Like, as we’ve talked about, I’m a little skeptical, um, of the entire process, but also have read enough that I think it would be very beneficial to me. Um, and immediately, like I discovered. Parts of me that I had no idea were there and made a lot of sense, um, and Ellis convinced that some of the weird dreams I had last night were a result [00:29:00] of beginning IFS therapy, um, and the last thing I’ll say actually relates to, uh, something Jeff was talking about, um, uh, A girl that I dated briefly in college and haven’t talked to in 20 years has recently gotten in touch with me, um, and, like, she got in touch with me before this shit went down, but the guy that she was hanging, okay, she said they’re not dating, but they hang out every day, and they, they make out, and, like, this is what I pieced together is, Much like when we were together in college, she doesn’t want a boyfriend, um, but she’ll, like, do all the things that a partner does, um, and, uh, then all of a sudden she texts me that he’s in treatment, uh, that they forced him into treatment, and I had no inkling of this Before, [00:30:00] um, but he tested positive for like every drug known to man, he broke out of treatment, he broke into her house, um, he is being scary as hell, um, she sends me videos that he sends her where he is like crazed and manic and, um, it is, it is terrifying and I don’t It’s I’m two hours away from her. [00:30:25] Brett: I don’t know how to respond other than to say, I’m really sorry you’re going through this. Here are the shelters near you if you need, if you need a safe place to go. Um, and she doesn’t shut me down. Like she seems grateful that she has Someone to share all this with because, like, his entire family is being terrorized right now, and they can commiserate, but they can’t take a calm, external look at it. [00:30:53] Brett: Um, and so that has been, uh, honestly, it has added some interest to my otherwise very stable [00:31:00] life. Um, but I I have a lot of, I’m really worried about how this ends and, and what happens next. So [00:31:10] Jeff: Yeah. How did you end up back in touch? [00:31:15] Brett: she texted, like we have been friends on Facebook for 20 years and we’ve never said a word to each other directly. Um, and then she texted me, I can’t remember. How she got my number, but yeah, she just kind of texted me out of the blue. How you doing? And then she kept promising we were going to FaceTime sometime and then always flaked on it. [00:31:40] Brett: Um, which is okay. Um, but yeah, like she, she owns a restaurant and is Like, for all intents and purposes, seems to be doing well, but she got, she got in with, uh, a scary guy, [00:32:00] and honestly, the guy that we’re talking about is the guy who did all my tattoos. He used to be a roommate of mine, um, like they were [00:32:07] Jeff: interesting. So this is a dual connection [00:32:09] Brett: yeah, they were, they were, those two were not friends back then, but they have connected [00:32:15] Christina: But they were like part, you are all part of the same circle, I [00:32:17] Brett: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, and, and I liked the guy. Uh, he was, He was passionate and, um, and very good looking, like, did some modeling, and, like, he was an interesting person to be around, but we were definitely junkies together, um, we, we definitely went through all of the stages of junkiedom together, uh, so I know, I know what he’s like high too. [00:32:46] Brett: And that’s, that’s pretty scary. And I also, like, I really think he’s bipolar. Like, you can be whacked out on a bunch of drugs without acting the way he’s acting. And you can be manic and act that [00:33:00] way without any drugs. [00:33:01] Jeff: right, [00:33:02] Brett: the drugs with mania, and that, that describes what I’m seeing from him. [00:33:09] Jeff: That’s hard. [00:33:10] Brett: I think he’s, I think he’s fueling mania with drugs. [00:33:14] Jeff: Hmm. [00:33:15] Christina: Which, which is really, I mean, I mean that’s the worst. I mean, I, I, I dated someone who, um, when he went off of his medication and then started abusing cocaine, like it was a real problem. Um, and, and basically that ended our relationship, um, because he was bipolar before and, and dealt with it and, and whatnot. [00:33:35] Christina: But then when it was the, okay, I am going to go. Purposely go off my medication and I’m going to start like using cocaine excessively and whatnot. I was like, okay, this is not a safe or a good, you know, environment for me to be in. I’m done. Um, especially when you’re like 22, like it’s just, you can’t do that. [00:33:53] Christina: Um, and you’re right. Like that’s, That’s just like another level nightmare to have, you know, like the combination if, if [00:34:00] what you’re saying is right, right? Because it’s like either of those things on their own can be really bad, but together it’s a really dangerous combination for everybody involved. [00:34:09] Brett: I agree. Um, I will, I will end mine there so we can try to contain our mental health, uh, uh, corner. Um, so Cristina, your turn. [00:34:19] Christina: I’ve been ADHD as fuck. Um, I’ve been having a really hard time focusing and concentrating. I’ve mentioned that before and it’s, it’s still a problem. So I’m, I’m trying to kind of, I don’t know, see if I can like workshop some other solutions, try to do some other things. But this has like been worse than it’s. [00:34:36] Christina: ever been in my life where, um, if I can kind of force myself into a mode where I’m actively working on something, it’s fine. But if I’m not actively like forcing myself, like I’m right now on the podcast, although while I’m recording with YouTube, I’m listening to you talk, but I’m also like looking up a bunch of other random stuff in the background and, and like multitasking. [00:34:58] Christina: And, and I am engaged and I am listening [00:35:00] and, um, and whatnot, but it, but I’m. You know, my brain is, is doing a bunch of other things, so I don’t know what this means. I don’t really know what to do about it, but that’s kind of where I’m at right now. So, [00:35:10] Brett: Yeah, I assume no medication changes. This is just a, [00:35:14] Christina: this is just, yeah, I mean, I’m [00:35:15] Brett: balance change. [00:35:16] Christina: Yeah, this is just exactly, and, and it’s one of those things, so like, you know, I have been off of antidepressants now completely for a couple of months now, and I don’t know if that’s, Had any sort of impact or not? I mean, I have to say anecdotally, it does feel like it’s gotten worse, but at the same time, I don’t really, you know, like, the antidepressants weren’t working. [00:35:35] Christina: So, yeah, I, I don’t know. I’m, I’m, I think that there are probably, I’m probably going to need to do some, some, uh, CBT, um, stuff to try to maybe get into a better mindset of some things I can do to maybe rewire myself to, Like not solve the ADHD because I don’t believe like that CBT can do that But some things that I can do to like force myself into better habits So [00:36:00] that I can then get into a better place because I think what tends to happen at least for me is that things can become rote and you can become like you can allow yourself to get away with you know, giving into the ADHD and And then get kind of like off schedule, off track, and I’m just trying to get myself to that place where I’m, you know, I’m honestly like trying to like screw myself and be like, get your shit together, like, do the hard [00:36:22] Brett: trying to be a normal person. [00:36:23] Christina: right, like, get your shit together, do these things. [00:36:25] Christina: It’s not like everything’s going to be okay, magically, and it’s not like, you know, you’re going to immediately not struggle with this stuff, but you’re going to have, like, I’m just trying to get myself to that point where I can get the lethargy out and actually like, Forced myself into being like, no, actually, this is not okay and, and we need to do things to fix this because medicine alone is like, I think at this point, I don’t think it’s a medicine thing. [00:36:46] Christina: It’s well, like the thing that medicine can solve. It’s like, my brain is broken. It’s a biochemical thing. But I also think that there are probably some like behavioral Things that I need to change. I don’t know. That’s [00:36:57] Brett: what I’ve found too. I have found like [00:37:00] medication can get me to a certain point. Um, but once I started therapy just about a year ago, um. I began developing, like, actual, like, life skills that I didn’t have, uh, for, like, specific, not general life skills, but specifically for dealing with things like bipolar and ADHD, and while I will always say, take your meds, like, don’t, don’t be scared of medication for any of the reasons that people give you, but, uh, there is a behavioral component to all of it, and I don’t know anybody who’s I do. [00:37:35] Brett: Okay. I know some people. I don’t know many neurodivergent people that are single diagnosis. Um, so when you start treating multiple disorders with medication, it becomes a tightrope walk. Like you’re talking about maybe stopping antidepressants, change your, change the way your ADHD presents itself. Um, and it’s, it’s such a tightrope walk when you have multiple diagnoses. [00:37:59] Jeff: [00:38:00] rope walk where you’re always doing that tight rope walker thing where you’re like, one leg on and you’re going, yeah. [00:38:07] Christina: No, you know, you make a good point. I don’t know how many people, I mean, I know that there are people who could have like, you know, single diagnosis and I’m not trying to limit that because obviously they’re all part of our neurodivergent family or whatnot. But yeah, I think most it’s, it’s weird because it’s like, it’s like for me, it’s like anxiety, depression, ADHD. [00:38:23] Christina: Um, some people are, uh, you know, bipolar or some people, you know, like, uh, ASD or like other things. And, um, But, you know, OCD, I definitely had OCD as a kid, I don’t anymore, to the same degree, but like I was definitely, like, not like, to the point where, you know, it interfered with my day to day life, but I was definitely OCD, um, as a kid, but it’s I think you’re right, like, very rarely do any of these, um, diagnoses, like, fit one box. [00:38:55] Christina: Most people are multiple and to your point, like that, then [00:39:00] that’s what, that’s what complicates treating stuff. I think especially with people who don’t have access to, um, good care or, or care that even gives a damn, because like, if you go to a GP, they’re going to give you one drug to try to solve this thing without any. [00:39:16] Brett: it also makes it really hard to diagnose. Like a lot of, a lot of ASD people start off being diagnosed with depression and anxiety, uh, but those are actually symptoms of autism, um, in their case. [00:39:31] Christina: in their case, I, I, I think they’re too, right. [00:39:35] Brett: Yeah. [00:39:36] Christina: think one of the things with autism, too, though, to be fair, is that over the last, like, 10 years, the definition, even as, like, from doctors, not even talking about the community, uh, which is a whole separate thing, but the definition from doctors has expanded quite differently than where it was even before a decade ago. [00:39:54] Christina: So, you’re right, but I think that, like, it, you know, I think, I sometimes see people who are like, oh, why wasn’t I diagnosed [00:40:00] with this? 20 years ago. And I was like, because the diagnostic, you know, the diagnostic, you know, criteria was different then. Um, but yeah, uh, for, for, for sure. Like when I was a kid, like depression was the most active thing that I could pick up on from the commercials for the mental health treatment facility, which is how I diagnosed myself. [00:40:25] Christina: But Anxiety has always been like the driving thing, really. And so, you know, but, but for me, the thing that I was able to like identify with as this, and I was like, Oh, I’m depressed. Right. So I very immediately diagnosed with depression. And then very, very soon after that was like, Oh, you also have anxiety disorders. [00:40:45] Christina: Like, huh, shocker. Okay, cool. You know? [00:40:49] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Oy. That tight, that tight rope walk. Fuckin sucks. [00:41:00] just say one, just, and maybe this isn’t closing, maybe not, is that like, Christina, what you were describing where it’s like, I’m off the depression meds, I, I heard you kind of essentially saying like, I don’t feel like fucking with medications right now, like this is, and, and like that, I, I only started taking Medications in 2000 and the thing that’s the, the, the phases that are the hardest for me is when, and it usually is in my case, I said, I’m not at all putting this to you. [00:41:26] Jeff: In my case, it often is like, I’m really bad at doing the behavioral stuff. Um, but like putting that aside, cause that’s just hard. Um, Uh, I find that when, when something is act, when some aspect of me that I, I think I’m adequately medicating or, or, or, you know, dealing with the therapy, whatever acts up, it’s kind of a hopeless feeling for a minute, uh, because I don’t want to go down the medication road, but like, I’ve learned a lot about how the medication can help me, but I also learned if I go down that road, then maybe it gets a little worse at first or whatever. [00:41:56] Jeff: That’s just a terrible feeling. [00:41:58] Christina: No, it is. I mean, especially coming off of like the [00:42:00] last six months that I had, um, with, like, I’m, I’m not in a place where I can, right? Like, if I do, um, if I, if I were to go, like, if I were to reestablish like a medication regimen again, and it’s possible that I might have to do that, I know that I will have to, like, take a leave of absence from work, right? [00:42:18] Christina: Yeah. It will have to be one of those scenarios. Like, I, I will, I will not be able to go into, like, if I were to try ketamine therapy, even, like, you know, stuff like, which I would like to do at some point, like, I will, it will have to be under the circumstances where I’m not trying to do what I did before. [00:42:34] Christina: And so, unfortunately, what that means. for me is that I’m going to have to wait until it reaches kind of a critical point or a more, not, not, not critical, critical, but a more critical point, because I don’t feel like I have the luxury or the ability to be like, Oh yeah, let’s just experiment with meds right now. [00:42:53] Christina: Right? Like, I know that when, and there will come a time for me to have to do that, that I will have to [00:43:00] have, um, supports set up and, and, and systems set up in my life so that I can focus just on that. Um, and that’s just, that’s not an option right now. [00:43:11] Jeff: Yeah, this is where I go. It fucking sucks. I’m sorry. [00:43:16] Christina: Yeah. And, and, and, [00:43:17] Jeff: you go, Yeah, it’s fine. Whatever. [00:43:19] Christina: and I’m like, no, yeah, it does because honestly, that’s just all I say is, yeah, it does. But I will just say on the upside, on the upside, like nothing’s critical. I’m just really ADHD right now, but I’m not like, I don’t want to actively harm myself. And I, I don’t like, it’s not like, you [00:43:35] Brett: better than being horribly depressed. [00:43:37] Christina: I was going to say like, it’s better than six months ago when I was like, I don’t really want to be alive, you know, so it’s better than that. [00:43:43] Jeff: better. Maybe for our show notes, getting back to something you said earlier, refresh notes, we just we just publish our search history during the recording of the episode. I feel like it would both hit the show notes and how much we’re just like, thinking about 80 [00:43:57] Christina: totally. I was going to be, which ironically, that was [00:44:00] sort of like the original kind of genesis of the show where Brett and I was like, we’d go down like these, you know, wiki k holes of things where we talk about one thing and then go to the next and then go to the next and go to the next. I mean, that’s kind of the, it’s [00:44:12] Brett: almost as if we’re both ADHD. [00:44:14] Christina: Oh, [00:44:15] Brett: Speaking of, speaking of saying that sucks and then immediately changing the subject. [00:44:19] Christina: do it. [00:44:20] Brett: This episode is brought to you by HIMS. Hey, men. Sometimes it can feel like we’re too busy to take care of our health problems. 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[00:45:26] Brett: Start your free online visit today at HIMS. com slash Overtired. That’s H I M S dot com slash Overtired for your personalized treatment options. HIMS. com slash Overtired. Prescriptions require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if appropriate. HIMS. com slash Overtired for details and important safety information. [00:45:52] Brett: Subscription required. Price varies based on product and subscription plan. Oh my God. I nailed that. That was one take, no edits.[00:46:00] [00:46:00] Christina: Hell fucking yeah. Let’s go. Let’s go, [00:46:02] Jeff: You shouldn’t even, you shouldn’t even edit that part out. That’s a good [00:46:05] Brett: I, I’m not gonna, I should podcast sober more often. [00:46:09] Christina: Honestly, though, that was so fun. I like that. [00:46:15] Slutty SEO [00:46:15] Brett: so can I, okay, I, I, I just want to, I came up, sorry, I’m fucking with my microphone. Um, I came up with a new term. Tell me if it’s original. Um, I was looking for a Shopify plugin for a friend for a consult. And I found it. I found one that honestly seemed to be exactly what we needed. But when I went into the reviews, like there were these pages that were like top 10 plugins for this thing. [00:46:44] Brett: And then you look and it’s hosted by the people who made the plugin I was looking at, and it’s kind of, it’s, it’s black hat SEO, but I want to call it slutty SEO. Like it just. Like, that term came to me when I was trying [00:47:00] to describe to them why I had hesitations about this. I was like, they have really, it’s just kind of slutty SEO. [00:47:07] Brett: Um, I think I’m gonna make that a thing. [00:47:11] Christina: I probably would have, and it’s so interesting, like, and I like, I like your, um, characterization of it as slutty, but like, I probably would have like, oh yeah, that’s just kind of like scummy, whatever, you know, SEO tactics, but, but, but [00:47:23] Brett: that’s fair. That’s probably less offensive to women who get called sluts all the [00:47:27] Christina: well, see, but this is [00:47:28] Brett: But I would never call a woman a slut. [00:47:30] Christina: but see, but I [00:47:31] Brett: I would call SEO [00:47:32] Christina: Right, but that’s what I’m saying. I was going to say, but I kind of like the, the, like, I kind of like the slut shaming aspect of it. You know what I mean? Because on the A, I think that it, like, at this point, for a lot of people, slut has kind of been reclaimed, which is excellent. [00:47:49] Christina: Um, and honestly, when I call people sluts at this point, I’m not, I, I’m not even being like, oh, you’re, you’re, you’re easy, you’re a whore or whatever. I’m like, you’re a whore in a completely non sexual way. Like, I don’t care what you do with your body. Like, if [00:48:00] I call you a whore, it’s because either I’m telling you how much I love you or like, it’s something else, right? [00:48:06] Christina: But like, [00:48:07] Brett: there’s a major book on polyamory called The Ethical Slut, and I feel like it’s been mainstreamed at this [00:48:13] Christina: Oh, it’s incredibly mainstream. It’s like, if I, if I have like one more people, like, look, you do you. It’s always just the ugliest people who want to tell you about their polycule. And I’m like, I don’t want to imagine any of you fucking, you know, like I’m happy for all of you, but I don’t want to. [00:48:28] Christina: Yeah. [00:48:29] Brett: have heard, I’ve heard gay men use the term slut about other gay men quite a bit, like it doesn’t seem to have the, um, kind of, like you, if you say, if a man says it about a woman, [00:48:42] Christina: Oh yeah, [00:48:43] Brett: then, then that’s very derisive. But, but a man saying it about another man, or like two girls saying it to each other in a more, like, playful way, I don’t feel like it has the [00:48:55] Christina: It doesn’t. [00:48:56] Brett: stigma around it. [00:48:57] Brett: Anyway, [00:48:58] Christina: to be clear, like, some women calling other [00:49:00] women like sluts and whores, like, can be very like, or, you know, but, but again, I was going to say, like, at least for me, and I, and I don’t usually use the word slut unless I’m with people who I know will understand my meaning of it, because again, the, the connotations are still what they are. [00:49:14] Christina: But again, this is why I like you calling it slutty SEO, is that my, my, my personal definition is now completely removed from like the, the, the sexual shaming aspect of it. Right? Like, like, like if I call a woman, like again, if I call somebody a slut, it is either because I’m like, what’s up slut, like lovingly, or it is just to be like, Oh, you fucking suck. [00:49:35] Christina: Um, but I don’t really care what your sexual proclivities are. Right? Like, I’m not making the judgment that way. I’m not calling you a whore, but like, like I said, like, I’m repeating what I said now, but, um, but at the same time, like, if, if another woman were to call me that, like, in some cases, you do know that they mean it like in a, oh, I’m sexually shaming you way, which I You know, okay, but the, the, I understand like the hesitancy there, but yeah, [00:50:00] you got scummy SEO, slutty SEO though. [00:50:01] Christina: I like that. I like that. [00:50:04] Brett: Alright, I have, we are, we are at 50 minutes, and I know we talked about trying to do an hour long episode. I want to talk about Dimspire. me, but if we want to jump straight into Graptitude, I’m game. [00:50:17] Jeff: No, do it. [00:50:18] Christina: Yeah. Let’s talk about it. [00:50:19] Dimspirations [00:50:19] Brett: so, I have for a couple of years been publishing hashtag dimspirations, which were inspired by inspirational posters, but not, um, think despair. [00:50:32] Brett: com kind of stuff. And I’m not the only person out there doing this, but I’ve had a lot of fun putting my darkest thoughts into meme format. Um, I recently released, after a sleepless night, um, I released dimspire. me And, uh, or Dimspire me as, as you would say it in a sentence. Um, uh, and, and it has. Most of the [00:51:00] DIMSpirations I’ve done over the last couple of years, and I’ve started updating regularly, and today I fixed the RSS feed, so now you can subscribe via RSS or email, um, and I, and it’s the, the OpenGraph tags are set up such that you can share a URL from any DIMSpiration, and it’ll put the preview image in like your tweet or your Mastodon posts or your Facebook posts, um, so I’m hoping to, like. [00:51:28] Brett: Get some legs out of this because eventually, eventually I would like to merchandise it. I don’t plan to ever paywall the online version, but I think if I took my best, my best 12 and made a calendar, I think I could do okay [00:51:44] Jeff: Uh, be a good calendar. [00:51:47] Christina: I [00:51:47] Brett: It [00:51:47] Jeff: like, uh, I like, uh, you have my undivided attention, but even if it, if you divided it, it’s still zero. It’s math. It’s math. It’s math. It’s math. It’s math. It’s math. It’s math. It’s math. It’s math. [00:51:57] Brett: Um, yeah, no, I had a lot of fun. [00:52:00] I, the whole thing is automated, uh, tremendously. Like I have, uh, an affinity photo template with a bunch of guides in it. And I make sure the background covers the whole thing. And then all the texts is within a. Certain square, and then I save that in RetroBatch, automatically outputs the square version for Instagram and the website, plus wallpaper versions and an iPhone wallpaper version. [00:52:25] Brett: It zips it all up, creates a manifest for it, puts it on the website. I could run a single rake task and it’ll add all of the new posts and the manifest, and then I can just add a pithy description to [00:52:39] Christina: written this up? [00:52:41] Brett: No, I haven’t. I like, I posted, I posted on the blog about the launch, um, but not about the automations. [00:52:49] Christina: write a thing about the automations because especially like whatever, like you’re, like you’re you’re, if you’re using GitHub Actions or any of those setups or whatnot, because I think that’s really [00:52:56] Brett: it’s all local. It’s all, it’s all local and very Mac [00:53:00] centric, but [00:53:00] Christina: Which is fine, but I [00:53:01] Brett: still be interesting. [00:53:02] Christina: think it could be interesting to people because I could see how that could be, like, you could turn that into a CICD thing. Um, but, um, even putting that aside, I would love to just read about how you’ve automated this. [00:53:14] Brett: All right. [00:53:14] Jeff: I just want to say one that makes me laugh is you have one that says know your body and then it’s like the map of a body and the the head it says bad decisions the shoulders inaction the chest unavoidable reality and everything from there down just is water that’s a good bit that’s a really good bit [00:53:32] Brett: Yeah, I’ve had a few good ones over the years. And then I got political, like every, when I get really tired, they come out like, like anti gun violence and anti Anti genocide, and, [00:53:45] Jeff: an asshole. [00:53:46] Brett: I know, well, and then I, then I get flack, they’re like, I wish you’d keep your politics out of this, and I’m like, is it really political to be, like, anti kids dying, or anti genocide? [00:53:57] Brett: Like, are these really, like, politically [00:54:00] divisive issues? I don’t know. [00:54:01] The Topic We Should Have Avoided, Probably [00:54:01] Jeff: Apparently anti semitic to be anti genocide. Let’s stop there! [00:54:04] Brett: Yep. Yep, we don’t want to get political. [00:54:07] Christina: No, well, actually it’s funny because somebody did have a topic here, which was should tech personalities express political views? [00:54:13] Jeff: was, [00:54:13] Brett: Which is related to [00:54:15] Christina: Yeah, I mean, I think it just sort of, because there’s some issues, like I’m going to be completely honest with you. I will not talk publicly about the topic that you were just alluding to. [00:54:26] Christina: Like, I’m not getting, I’m not going to say a fucking thing about that on any of my channels. [00:54:31] Brett: I will on Facebook. I’m, I’m more quiet about it where I have a bigger following like Twitter or even Mastodon. I’m not as in your face about my beliefs on the topic, um, but I won’t shy away from it. And honestly, if I had, if I had as many followers as you do, Christina, I would probably be a lot more shy about sharing my political beliefs.[00:55:00] [00:55:00] Jeff: Christine is like, I just want to keep my DMs. [00:55:02] Brett: But [00:55:03] Christina: mean, at this point, I do just want to keep my DMs, but it’s also, it’s beyond that. But no, I get what you’re saying. For me, though, it’s just like, there’s like, [00:55:10] Brett: like, so on, on Brett Terpstra, On brettterpstra. com, I won’t, I won’t get political. Um, on my personal Twitter account, I’m going to say whatever the hell I want. If I were like on my account for Oracle, uh, no politics, like that’s not even an option, but I don’t think that, I think if you follow a tech personality or any public personality, if you follow their personal account. [00:55:38] Brett: You should expect to get to know them as a person. [00:55:42] Christina: I fully agree. And, and I’m completely okay with people making whatever decision they want to make about how, what they want to share or don’t want to share, especially on their personal accounts. And, and I’ve I don’t shy away from sharing some of my personal thoughts clearly, right? Like, I’ve kind of like, that’s been like part of my success, I think, is being authentic and whatnot. [00:55:59] Christina: That said, [00:56:00] there are some things that I’m just like, I know that nothing good is going to come from me personally speaking out about something, especially because I can’t do anything to solve anything. Like, I can’t actually make any difference, right? So my personal reason for not speaking out has Nothing to do with like thinking, Oh, you know, people shouldn’t do it or whatnot. [00:56:18] Christina: Cause no, I mean, I, people should do whatever they are comfortable with. I’m just like, there’s some political topics that I feel like, and I’ll just like, just be completely honest about it. There are some instances where it’s easier because the stakes are lower because everybody’s kind of on the same page. [00:56:32] Christina: And then there are some where honestly, the situation is so complicated and so complex and nuance is [00:56:39] Jeff: One or the other, it’s usually not both. [00:56:42] Christina: And, and, and people, [00:56:43] Jeff: But I won’t get into that argument. [00:56:45] Christina: right, right. But, but, but it’s like, you know, but like, it’s, it’s like such a complicated, complex thing. And then because there’s no ability to have any sort of nuanced discussion, I’m just like, you know what? [00:56:55] Christina: I’m not, I’m not going to participate. Like I’m not opposed to anybody else. And I might interact with some [00:57:00] people’s, you know, uh, statements or whatever that, that I feel like I can kind of, you know, get behind, but like my own stuff. Don’t, don’t need to have those conversations, like, publicly, personally, but I respect everybody else who wants to do that. [00:57:14] Brett: I, I get, like, I do research. I do my own research. No, but I’ll like, I’ll, I’ll do, like, [00:57:21] Jeff: Educate yourself. [00:57:23] Brett: legitimate research if a topic Like, if I can’t understand where people are coming from on a topic, I will research and I will try to understand, like, where, where a contradicting argument or a viewpoint is coming from. [00:57:37] Brett: And sometimes I find that argument so un contradictory. persuasive, dissuasive, that I can’t keep my mouth shut. It just comes spilling out. And I, especially when I’m tired, like I do not check myself well when I’m tired. [00:57:54] Christina: I’m, I’m the same way. I’m the same way, but it’s weird. It’s like the, the one thing. Cause I’ve had some people who [00:58:00] have like, kind of like yelled at me, like, why aren’t you saying anything about, you know, what’s happening in Gaza? And I’m like, cause I’m not going to, like, cause I’m not going to, like, that’s just for my own mental health. [00:58:10] Christina: Frankly, I will be, I will completely own that. I’m being selfish here. And I’m like, I’m actually, this is a case where I’m prioritizing. I’m My own like mental health to not get involved doesn’t mean that I’m not paying attention doesn’t mean I don’t have opinions Um, but this is not a thing that I actually for me right now Need to comment on in any way shape or form and frankly, you don’t need to hear my opinion Like you don’t need to care about it. [00:58:30] Christina: You don’t need to hear it. It doesn’t matter to anyone um having said that like I completely, uh, you know support anybody else’s Right to to speak out and and go for it. I’m just saying like [00:58:41] Jeff: fucking brutal context and, and, and it’s just brutal. I don’t, it’s not, I’m not getting us deep into that, into the issue of Israel Palestine, but I will say that like it’s, it’s been easier for me in life because I’ve, I’ve had personal experiences there and connections there and that’s just known. [00:58:57] Jeff: Um, you know, I’ve watched mass graves [00:59:00] get filled with Palestinian bodies. Um, and, and, but putting that aside, like, um, I think that it is fucking impossible for me to receive the kind of feedback or to have the kind of conversation that is so just fucked. And the reason it’s hard is I think that the arguments people have, this isn’t about which side, uh, I mean, I guess it probably always is in some way, and that’s the problem. [00:59:29] Jeff: But the, the arguments people have, I think, in the way they have them get them further and further away from the actual suffering and pain and horrors and, and murderous violence that is impacting people [00:59:42] Brett: I have so much to say, but I’m going to [00:59:44] Christina: No, same. I mean, same. And the only thing I’ll say is I agree with you is there’s just it’s I think that so much because it is literally on the whole issue is, is such a, um, you know, like theological and ideological just Fundamental [01:00:00] disagreement that will not be solved that by, because people do wind up having to go into sometimes two camps, like we do lose sight of the fact of like the, the, the, the death and, and the, and the, you know, the, just the horrors of humanity that are happening. [01:00:15] Christina: And like, to me, like, that’s the real like focus, but you can’t have just that conversation because you cannot, unfortunately, it is impossible to disentangle it from the other aspect. [01:00:27] Brett: if you say the word genocide right now in a completely out of context, you just say the word genocide, you start a political conversation. Um, people get very irate. It, I mean, the US has funded genocides throughout its history. Like, this is not, it’s not a, it’s not a crazy conspiracy statement to say that the U. [01:00:51] Brett: S. funds genocide. And you don’t have to be talking about a specific genocide to say maybe genocide is bad, maybe we shouldn’t do [01:00:59] Christina: No, I [01:01:00] agree. And no, absolutely, the U. S. has funded, you know, genocide. I mean, like, our previous support link, Jeff, the reason that we had sanctions in Iraq to begin with is, ironically, because we helped aid the genocide by Saddam Hussein against, you know, his own [01:01:14] Jeff: Kurds and, [01:01:15] Christina: Kurds, exactly. Yes. Um, and not, not to mention like, like, like our, our support, you know, of certain, you know, South American regimes and, and, and, and people like Pol Pot. [01:01:24] Christina: Like, you know, there’s a, there’s a lot of, of history where the U. S. has 100 percent done that. And you’re completely correct. This particular situation though, because it is such like a long standing thing and you’re not, but, but I would say, I would actually say [01:01:36] Jeff: Only 1948. Damn, I can’t help, we’re getting, we gotta be careful. [01:01:39] Brett: Yeah, we, we should, [01:01:41] Jeff: Not that long. [01:01:42] Brett: we [01:01:42] Christina: No, but no, but, but, but I was just going to say like, no, no, but, but I’m just saying like to, to, just to close on this, like. [01:01:47] Christina: Genocide is a political topic. Like, it’s not, like, it’s not, it’s, it’s fundamentally about politics. I mean, that’s really what it is. So [01:01:55] Brett: but, but as non politicians, is there anyone who’s pro genocide?[01:02:00] [01:02:00] Jeff: I think, yes. [01:02:02] Brett: Okay, that scares me. The fact, the fact that, the fact that that [01:02:06] Jeff: I mean, look, this, I’ll just say this isn’t even about the Israel Palestine, I would say that like, if you think about Rwanda, you think about what happened in the former Yugoslavia, like, yes, it’s politicians that, that gin it up, it’s the people who do it. Um, and that’s super. Hard to think [01:02:21] Christina: if you think about there, there are, [01:02:22] Jeff: Germany fucks me up because my people are all German and like, [01:02:26] Christina: I was going to say people did it, right? Because and there are many instances of that where there are people who go and it is the governments who gen it up. You’re exactly right. But it’s the people who do it. And it’s the people who do believe that there are some people who don’t have the right to exist and are completely content with that. [01:02:40] Brett: then there’s all the people who said, I didn’t realize how bad it was. Like you talked to people that were regular democratic German citizens at the, in 1940, that they didn’t realize how bad what was going on was, and they didn’t feel the need to take a stance. Not that like it would have made a [01:03:00] difference at the time. [01:03:01] Brett: Um, [01:03:02] Jeff: gonna attempt to button this up by laughing at something I just said, which is Nazi Germany really fucks me up. I just like, it’s like, oh, really? Oh, wow. That guy’s really, [01:03:13] Brett: Yeah, we got, we got, we got way off track here, I’m [01:03:16] Christina: No, [01:03:16] Jeff: I appreciate it. I, I, this, this is great. Um, all right. Graftitude or what? Graftitude or bust? [01:03:23] Christina: Love it. [01:03:26] grAPPtitude [01:03:26] Jeff: Um, okay. Who’s going first? [01:03:28] Brett: You are. [01:03:29] Jeff: Oh, okay, great. Um, so I, I opened MarsEdit for the first time and probably since the second Bush administration, um, and I opened it because I realized, oh, you know what, well, I just wanted to see it. It’s on set app. We all love Setapp. And [01:03:47] Brett: Martha is so good. [01:03:48] Jeff: great thing about Setapp is it allows me to just, there’s a lot of apps that have just been gloriously in production and improving for decades that are at Setapp so I can open them and be like, look at you, um, you’re all [01:04:00] grown up. [01:04:00] Jeff: And, uh, the, the fun I had with MarsEdit was a couple of things. I actually really enjoy creating Mastodon posts in MarsEdit, which you can do. Um, I Don’t like making Mastodon posts in Mastodon, um, even though I used Ivory, which is, which is great, uh, you know, Tweetbots, Xbots, uh, RIP, R I P. Um, but I, the reason I’m actually bringing up MarsEdit, which I would just say is delightful, is it helped me to archive my many, many Tumblr blocks. [01:04:30] Jeff: Uh, every once in a while, I’m like, I should go out and just make a list of all the, the. Fucking ghosts I have out there. And so I was able to archive, I mean, I have Tumblr blogs where there’s like three posts, right? It’s like, Oh, this is a great idea. [01:04:41] Christina: How do you do this with, um, with MarsEdit? You just log in with, um, your [01:04:44] Jeff: can just, yeah, you can log in with Tumblr and it just sucks in all the posts, um, which is really great. [01:04:50] Jeff: And, and including the misspellings. [01:04:53] Brett: WordPress sites as [01:04:54] Jeff: And the WordPress sites. Yep, for sure. For sure. And, and somehow you can still at least import your blog [01:05:00] spot sites, which I, I haven’t. It’s a little more, it’s a little trickier. They don’t, the blog spot, API or the blogger API went away in terms of being able to post from Marta, but it seems like you can still import from there. [01:05:10] Jeff: And I need to do that. ’cause I have a lot of those too. I used to like just spray blogs indiscriminately into the crowd. It’s just like, but that was probably early bipolar and, and also ADHD [01:05:21] Christina: I, I, I, I [01:05:22] Jeff: I have an idea. It now must be real. [01:05:24] Brett: undiagnosed here, [01:05:26] Christina: I was gonna say, I think that it’s like, it’s, it’s both Tumblr, uh, or not Tumblr, it’s, it’s both ADHD and like, like tech, um, early adopter thing, right? Cause I think that I know so many tech people who, as. Many of them aren’t even ADHD, who are just like, Oh, I have an idea. I want to start a blog. Because we always have this itch. [01:05:42] Christina: Like, it’s the easiest thing to do is to spin up another website or another blog. And, uh, and [01:05:48] Jeff: really funny name. [01:05:50] Brett: Well, look, it’s insane to think about the days before you could do that. Like, what did people like us, when we had an [01:06:00] idea, what’d we do? Like, we told, maybe we made a zine, but mostly we just told our friends. And suddenly, like, people our age suddenly had this, we could, we can spin up a Tumblr. We can spin up a blogger site. [01:06:13] Christina: We can have a, we can have a live [01:06:14] Brett: this with [01:06:14] Christina: we can have a GeoCities. Yeah. We have [01:06:16] Jeff: it was such a glorious time. And this is the second episode, I think in a row that we talked about Tumblr. Um, it was such a glorious time and I’m so glad I had those Tumblrs cause they’re like little journals. And even the ones that were, um, just three posts now, what’s nice about having the Mars edit is there there’s everything, right? [01:06:32] Jeff: It’s all there. And, and that’s really nice. And so even if it had three posts, it’s now alongside 10 other Tumblrs that had, you know, six to 40 posts each, um, my proudest. Blog title, and this one’s dead, was Skinny Notebook Full of Code, which was when I first started coding as a journalist. And I was like, I have a skinny notebook full of code, and I thought that was a great name. [01:06:52] Brett: Oh, that didn’t, what, on the show notes, wasn’t your pick originally, uh, Jupiter Notebooks? [01:07:00] Jupiter Labs. So, okay, we’re going to talk about that in the future, I hope, because I feel like that is exactly the kind of coding you did in journalism. [01:07:08] Jeff: moved, yeah, I moved this down, uh, in place of it because I had it as a topic because I wanted to talk about it on my Tumblr, so I snuck it in in gratitude. [01:07:15] Brett: I would like to, two points I’ll add to the MarsEdit discussion. I recently gave away MarsEdit, uh, a few copies on brettterpstra. com. There will be a link in the show notes for the upcoming giveaways. And this week is Black Ink from Daniel Jalkut, who also made, uh, MarsEdit and Black Ink is a great, [01:07:36] Jeff: FastScripts? [01:07:38] Brett: uh, yeah. [01:07:39] Brett: Um, it’s, I think I already did the fast script. Yeah. Uh, Black Ink is a great crossword puzzle. Like if you want to If you want to [01:07:46] Jeff: Oh, I need to try it. [01:07:47] Brett: I can finish a crossword puzzle five times faster using black ink than I can even using like an online version where you have to [01:07:55] Jeff: Why? Why is it [01:07:56] Brett: I just keyboard shortcuts, man, like you can [01:08:00] just, you can just flip through the whole thing and you see a clue and you get a couple of cross [01:08:03] Jeff: Thanks for not saying key chords. [01:08:05] Brett: switch, switch, switch your orientation, type out the word you [01:08:09] Christina: Totally. And it’s a great app. [01:08:10] Jeff: try [01:08:11] Christina: It’s also, it’s like, I love the, I, I pay for the, like, um, well, it’s like, I guess it’s part of a New York Times subscription or whatever, but you know, you get the games and whatnot and, and that stuff. [01:08:19] Jeff: it till Wednesday. [01:08:20] Christina: yeah. And so, like, I like their app a lot. Like I think that their iOS app [01:08:25] Jeff: It’s [01:08:25] Brett: mini, I’ll do the mini on the iOS app, but if I’m going to do the actual crossword, Black Ink is the [01:08:30] Christina: No, I was going to say, but I really enjoy being able to like have it on my Mac. Like it’s, it’s a really great app. Uh, but yeah. Um, yeah. So shout out to Jacob cause he’s, he’s the best, um, Um, my, my favorite Tumblr incidentally is, uh, cause I had a whole bunch of them too. Um, it’s fuckyeahcorrections. [01:08:50] Christina: tumblr. com. [01:08:51] Jeff: The fuck yeah, whole fuck yeah idea [01:08:53] Christina: So good. [01:08:54] Jeff: was so great. Fuck yeah corrections. Okay. Is this still up? [01:08:56] Christina: Yeah, it is. And so the, the, the impetus was that, uh, [01:09:00] do you remember Alex from Target? He was like this, this kid who was like cute, who somebody like did a meme on. This was ten years ago now. New York Times wrote about it. And because it’s the New York Times, on Twitter had had a meme showing Kel from, from, from Good Burger. [01:09:14] Christina: And this is the correction, November 10th, 2014. An article on Thursday about the latest internet sensation of, quote, Alex from Target, end quote, a picture of a teenager bagging merchandise at the retailer that went viral online, described incorrectly a subsequent internet posting of, quote, Kel from Good Burger, end quote. [01:09:32] Christina: It was a frame from the 1997 film Good Burger, starring actor Kel Mitchell. It was not a photograph of a teenager in a juff. [01:09:41] Jeff: Wow. Wow. Wow. [01:09:45] Brett: I like, so Christina is always asking us if we’ve heard of, you know, fads, viral topics, memes, and Jeff and I are always like, no, but you bring up Alex from Target and we’re like, oh yeah. [01:09:57] Christina: were like, yeah, because that was like Halcyon Days, like [01:10:00] it was so good, but. [01:10:01] Jeff: Well, it’s like how the only sports team I can talk about is the 1987 Twins. Like it’s, it’s a thing. Related to my AARP conversation, which I’ll save for next week. Sorry, Christina. [01:10:12] Christina: was gonna say, there’s another funny one too. An article last Sunday about Bradley Cooper, who is [01:10:16] Jeff: I love this [01:10:17] Christina: revival of The Elephant Man, reverting correctly to the London address where Joseph Carey Merrick, the real Elephant Man, exhibited himself. The address is now a sorry store. It is not, our sincerest apologies, a sorry store. [01:10:33] Jeff: That reminds me of something I’ll say briefly, which is I was recently talking to a friend who works at a news organization for which you would be disappointed to learn what I’m about to tell you, which is that they’re in the process of unionizing and one of the things they hope to get out of being in union is fact checkers. [01:10:47] Jeff: And let me tell you, [01:10:49] Christina: Yeah. [01:10:50] Jeff: if you knew what this organization was, which one day you will, it would be very disappointing. [01:10:56] Christina: This was one of my favorites, because I didn’t have a lot of posts on this Tumblr. It was just, it was one that I [01:11:00] started in 2014 and then forgot about promptly. Um, the AP deleted a tweet that incorrectly referred to Lauren Conrad as Lauren Hill. A corrected tweet will be published shortly. Because they’re like, oh, Lauren from the Hills is Lau I mean, it’s just, it’s so good. [01:11:16] Jeff: Oh my God. I love it. I [01:11:19] Brett: All right, Christina, what you got? [01:11:21] Christina: Alright, so this is one that I’ve talked about before, but a new version just came out, so I’m going to give it a shout out again. So this is FF Works, which is, um, a great ff neg, uh, front end, um, for Mac os. It’s at ff works.info and it is, or actually that’s not correct. That is correct. Yes. It’s FFworks. [01:11:41] Christina: net. My bad. My apologies. Um, but FFworks 4 just came out. Um, and I don’t remember what the upgrade price was, although it was, it was fairly low. I think that it’s, it’s still like 22 pounds, I think, for the full version. Um, and [01:11:54] Jeff: how many meters away from, from your wallet? Are you? [01:11:57] Christina: I mean, I don’t know. Well, because, because he, he [01:12:00] sells it or he sells it in euros or he sells it in pounds and so, so you’ve gotta buy it like that way, so it, yeah. [01:12:05] Christina: Yeah. It’s 22 euros. So, so, uh, ’cause I think he’s German, so what, whatever. Um, the, uh, [01:12:10] Jeff: solver. Hello, Graftitude. [01:12:12] Christina: so, uh, exactly, so, oh, okay. So it’s 14, uh, it’s 14 euros to upgrade, and then it’s 22 for, for the new thing. Um, and this is just a, a great app. [01:12:21] Brett: which is 23. 82 US dollars [01:12:24] Christina: hey, great. Okay. Well, that’s fantastic because that means that the, the dollar is either [01:12:30] Brett: exchange rate is great. [01:12:31] Christina: I was going to say the exchange rate is actually good now. Uh, cause before that’d be like, Oh, okay. So that’s 30 bucks [01:12:36] Brett: like, it was like 1. 5, not too long [01:12:38] Christina: It was exactly. So I’m like, okay, good. So what’s great about this is that if, um, it’s, uh, like, you know, we’ve talked about FFmpeg before. Um, it is one of those tools that I use all the time for so many different things. [01:12:51] Christina: Um, and, and it’s great if you need. Many times you do need to, like, re encode media into different formats and whatnot. Um, but the problem with FFMPEC is that even with [01:13:00] ChatGPT, like, writing scripts, even with ChatGPT, remembering what to fucking do with it is a nightmare. It’s like the most useful application of all time. [01:13:09] Christina: And it’s actually well designed. I’m not even gonna lie and be like, Oh, it’s not like a well designed syntax or whatever. It’s just got so many fucking options that who can keep track of them? It’s like image magic, right? Like, these are these amazing utilities. [01:13:22] Brett: And a lot, and a lot of the options, you don’t [01:13:24] Christina: Know about, right? [01:13:26] Brett: not so well versed in video formats that you would understand what the option will actually do to the end video. So a GUI is so nice for [01:13:35] Christina: It is. And what’s, what I like about this GUI is that it is, in my opinion, like the perfect kind of mix because there are, there, there are two ways I think you could go about doing this. You could, that could be successful. Uh, there’s, there’s a third way, which would be the Linux way, which we’ll talk about. [01:13:50] Christina: I, I could, you know, talk about at length, which would, Be the bad way. But the two ways you could do this successfully to like make like a gooey of an FF impact thing would be to [01:14:00] either A, have a very simple drag and drop process where you then have like, like per Yeah. Where you just have like a very like easy kind of slider and it’s just telling you what to do, but you really can’t go that advance and you can’t, you know, go beyond kind of what, what a lot of things you could do in QuickTime back in the day. [01:14:15] Christina: Right. Or you can do what FF works does, which is give you all those options. Um. It hides them to a certain extent. So you have to kind of go looking if you want to do more with it. And you do need to kind of, it’s not going to be the most intuitive thing to be able to figure out, Oh, I can do all these things, but it definitely does service all your options. [01:14:34] Christina: But what I appreciated about it is that unlike If this were a Linux desktop app, this would literally just be every single option available in FFmpeg as like a checkbox or a slider, but with no understanding of what any of that means, and like, not well organized, like it would just be a disaster. Um, this is [01:14:55] Jeff: going to talk about Linux and Israel Palestine in the same episode? [01:14:58] Brett: ha ha ha [01:14:59] Christina: what, [01:15:00] look, wow, [01:15:00] Brett: ha ha [01:15:01] Christina: sssssssshaaaaaaaa [01:15:03] Brett: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [01:15:07] Christina: I feel suitably owned, um, that’s, that’s fucking perfect. But, that’s so good, but yeah, no, but [01:15:15] Jeff: different. [01:15:16] Christina: Are they? Are they? Um, but it’s so different. Yeah. [01:15:21] Brett: Don’t they both date back to, back to like [01:15:23] Christina: So, [01:15:24] Jeff: both, yeah, Oh, Oh, but they have similar characteristics in the rhetorical space. [01:15:34] Christina: but I was just gonna say, but I really enjoy, I appreciate this, like, application so much because I do like that it treats you like an adult and that you can, you can make it really easy. Like, you can set up a droplet, just make it really easy to auto convert stuff. But if you do need to, the reason that someone would want to use this app over Permute is because you do need to use this more. [01:15:53] Christina: Advanced parts of FFmpeg, but you don’t want to fuck with it. So, honestly, for 23, [01:16:00] highly recommended. Um, and, uh, it gets very frequent updates and, uh, works with like, you know, 4K and 5K footage and stuff. So it’s, it’s really good. [01:16:10] Brett: Very nice. [01:16:11] Jeff: How many rubles is it going to set me back? [01:16:14] Brett: checkduckduckgo, I bet it would do that conversion for you. [01:16:17] Jeff: I just downloaded it. I had, I had actually forgotten about this and I, and I think it’s great. [01:16:22] Brett: What is, what is 22 euros and rupees? That’s what I want to know. Um, so my pick is I, so I spent my morning, um, creating the RSS feed for Dimspired. me, um, which ended up being a very manual process, which I then ported to Feedpress and made like, you can do an email subscription and everything. As I was testing it, I opened up my trustee RSS app, which lately has been reader, R-E-E-D-E-R. [01:16:53] Brett: Um, there are, there are a ton like Net Newswire and Read Kitt, and there are so many [01:17:00] good RSS apps for Mac, but I, I keep coming back to reader. I love the single, uh, single key keyboard shortcuts. I love some of the niceties of the interface. I love bionic reading, which will like. It re highlights, it bolds certain letters in each word. [01:17:21] Brett: So, do you know, have you ever seen the font, um, uh, Open Dyslexic? Um, it’s kind of like that, and it creates like kind of a magnet for your eyes so you can scan a line and pick it up. Maybe, maybe 50 percent faster than you would reading just plain text. Um, it really helps with speed reading. It’s kind of cool. [01:17:45] Brett: Um, uh, Reader also has like iCloud sync. If you don’t feel like using, it works with Feedbin and all of the other various services that replaced Feedburner, you know, back from the day. Um, Which, [01:18:00] which I’m grateful for, but, uh, Reader has iCloud subscript subscription sync, uh, so you can get, uh, your syncs, your, your feed synced across your devices without having to use a third party service. [01:18:14] Brett: Personally, I use Feedbin. I love it. I think it’s great, but, uh, but you have options. So, um, that’s my, that’s my, that’s my Graptitude. [01:18:26] Jeff: Awesome. [01:18:27] Christina: And, and, and you still use Feedbreast, uh, to manage, uh, your RSS feeds. Um, like is there, and that’s like 10 a month or something, isn’t it? [01:18:36] Brett: Uh, yeah, but that’s for unlimited feeds. So I have feeds for multiple sites and, and I, I do pay like you could, there’s a free version that you don’t get like email subscription and you can’t do podcasts and stuff like that. Um, but if you want to, if you want basically unlimited feeds and, uh, the ability to embed. [01:18:59] Brett: [01:19:00] Audio and have email subscriptions and all of that. Yeah. It’s like 10 bucks a month, but I have, I have enough. I have enough feeds to justify that. [01:19:09] Christina: No, I mean, I think that makes sense. I was just, uh, uh, I, um, yeah. Cause like, cause at this point, like FeedBurner is, I think just only just, I think it’s basically gone. I mean, I think that like it, it, it exists only in so far, like they’ve gotten rid of almost every single feature. So, which is a shame because like that was free for so long. [01:19:29] Christina: Um, and, [01:19:31] Brett: so it’s Google reader [01:19:32] Christina: Oh, I know, I know. [01:19:34] Brett: we are now. [01:19:34] Christina: But like, but like, it’s, but FeedBurner seems dumb because it’s just like, okay, it’s just like a front end thing, like for, you know, it’s generating like RSS files, like you’re hosting them yourself, you know what I mean? Like, [01:19:45] Brett: I, I love feed press partly because much like pinboard, it’s kind of a low maintenance. [01:19:52] Christina: yeah, it is. Yeah, [01:19:54] Brett: I can’t remember the guy’s name. It’s an Italian name, but, um, Maxime? Or was [01:20:00] that? Anyway, like, like he’s making 10 bucks a month off of all these people who are just forwarding, forwarding the RSS feeds they’re already creating. [01:20:10] Christina: what I’m saying. Yeah, [01:20:11] Brett: something that offers analytics to basically a PHP script. And, and that’s like, I I’m happy to pay it, but also I, I could stand to have like, uh, a passive income like that, that required probably very little actual like customer service or anything. [01:20:30] Christina: Oh, I’m sure there’s almost none and and honestly like I’m not mad at him at all Like I’m happy for him for it I think my whole like issue with it is I’m like, why should I pay 10 a month for this? I know that like that if you have enough sites like it is actually going to be like like [01:20:45] Brett: stats. It’s [01:20:46] Christina: Well, no, [01:20:47] Brett: if you want, [01:20:48] Christina: and I get that [01:20:49] Brett: want statistics, you need it. [01:20:51] Christina: No, and I get that. [01:20:52] Christina: I’m just saying, like, when you know how little it is, there’s like the part of my mind, which is broken, which goes to, well, why don’t I just spend that 10 a [01:20:58] Brett: Right? There you [01:20:59] Christina: on, on, on, [01:21:00] on a VPS server where I’m hosting this myself and doing all this myself? Why am I paying someone else for it? And then of course I realized, well, you don’t want to fucking maintain that, Christina. [01:21:09] Brett: Right. Exactly. [01:21:10] Christina: get that. And, and, and that’s why he can have this passive income. But I’m saying the part of my brain that’s broken is that I’m like, and sorry [01:21:18] Brett: If I, if I put eight hours of coding into this, I could do it for basically free. [01:21:24] Christina: That, that’s [01:21:25] Brett: I have, I have that same part of my brain. You’re not alone. [01:21:28] Christina: So, so I’m, but, but, but I’m happy for him that like, it’s still, um, uh, there. And, um, uh, also happy, I haven’t used Reader in a while. I didn’t, I, I honestly, I didn’t know Reader was still being updated. [01:21:39] Jeff: I didn’t either. [01:21:41] Christina: that’s great. [01:21:41] Brett: is. Yeah, they came out with a new, I think it was this year, maybe last year, they came out with a whole, like, major version bump. Um, honestly, NetNewsWire kind of stole the show. Um, and, and it’s a great app. Uh, it doesn’t, There are some things [01:22:00] about Reader that I miss when I use NetNewsWire, uh, but NetNewsWire is free, and it’s a solid app, and it’s really good to see it come back after, like, how long did it go unmaintained? [01:22:11] Brett: Like 10 years? [01:22:12] Jeff: a long time. But then yeah, [01:22:15] Brett: Is that Brent Simmons now? [01:22:17] Christina: it’s Brent Simmons. Well, he was it originally, and then he, um, sold it to NetGator, um, who did it. And then [01:22:24] Jeff: then got it back. [01:22:25] Christina: then he got it back. Yeah, he was able to get it back and then he decided to make it open source, which I think is really remarkable and amazing. Um, and, and at this point, I think that’s what I use, or I just use like, honestly, Feedbin’s website has been good enough for me. [01:22:38] Christina: Um, [01:22:38] Brett: ReadKit, ReadKit was really [01:22:40] Christina: I really did like [01:22:41] Brett: for me. Um, like I, it started hanging and crashing and like, that was a few operating systems ago and maybe it’s fine now. Um, cause it had a lot of cool features, um, that made it worth the price for me at the time. But anyhow, Hey, we [01:23:00] did it in an hour and 22 minutes. [01:23:01] Jeff: Not bad. [01:23:03] Brett: Like no edits. I’m not going to edit. I’m not going to edit anything. We said what we said. We’re going to, we’re going to leave it all in. [01:23:11] Jeff: Alright, then I guess I hope you get more sleep tonight. [01:23:17] Christina: for real. [01:23:18] Brett: Get some sleep. [01:23:19] Christina: Yeah. Get some sleep, everyone. For real.

A somewhat manic episode that covers everything (BUT the Mental Health Corner, which is a 404 again). Kicking it off with an in memoriam app pick, opining about Microsoft Word and Excel, and the Grammy talk you knew was coming. Sponsor Hims is changing men’s healthcare by providing simple and convenient access to science-backed treatments for erectile dysfunction, hair loss, weight loss, and more. Start your free online visit today at hims.com/overtired. Show Links Goodbye iThoughts X Navicat TablePlus Sleeve 2 Sideshow iThoughts Latex support toketaware history Mo Amer on chocolate hummus The Messenger Implosion NYT on Messenger Defector on Messenger Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript 404 [00:00:00] This episode is brought to you by HIMS. Stay tuned for more information. [00:00:08] Jeff: Hello everybody, welcome to what might be, and I’m not going to explain, might be a kind of a weird episode of Overtired, but doesn’t matter, doesn’t matter. Why are you asking so many questions? Um, this is Jeff, uh, Severance Gunsel, one of your three hosts. Uh, I’m here with Christina Warren. Hi, Christina. [00:00:25] Christina: Hello, hello. [00:00:26] Jeff: And Brett, what are you eating in the microphone? [00:00:28] Brett: I have a popsicle. [00:00:31] Christina: They’re homemade, huh? [00:00:32] Brett: Yeah. [00:00:32] Jeff: they homemade? What’s the, what’s the, what’s the flavor? [00:00:35] Brett: This is like lemon echinacea. [00:00:39] Jeff: Nice. [00:00:40] Brett: weird organic juices, that’s what I get, and I make them into popsicles, and I eat them when I’m drunk. [00:00:47] Jeff: Oh, that’s all right. That’s got nothing to do with anything. Um, you know, I started that with what’s the flavor, which reminded me, have you ever had a long term situation where you would clearly, um, have the phone number that’s [00:01:00] being given out by a drug dealer? Um, which has happened to me. Uh, and for a glorious two years, I would get these calls and they’d be something like, here’s three of my favorites. [00:01:10] Jeff: Okay. One was, I answer the phone. Hey, what’s the flavor? That’s it, right? The next one is, uh, Hey, you still at Taco Bell? Right? It’s looking beautiful. And then my favorite was Christmas Eve. And it was just a text that said, I see you over there, Negro. [00:01:26] Brett: I cannot relate to this at all. What, [00:01:29] Jeff: And I wrote back and I was like, I just, I can’t really, it’s hard for me to explain, but I know You have the wrong person. [00:01:36] Brett: how did you end up with these numbers? [00:01:38] Jeff: don’t know if it was a number that was just too close to a, uh, what is clearly a drug dealer’s number, because it wasn’t just that. There was a lot more of like, what’s the flavor? [00:01:45] Jeff: Like, like a lot more checking in on Fridays, like. [00:01:48] Christina: Somebody gave the wrong number [00:01:49] Jeff: Somebody gave their own number out, it got passed around, you know, call this guy and ask what’s the flavor, you know, and I loved it, loved it, and, uh, and I missed those calls, I wish I could figure [00:02:00] out, I blocked everybody because you’d keep getting calls, my block list is just epic, in fact, I could probably give my block list to the Minneapolis Police Department and, uh, get some sort of reward, but I wouldn’t do that. [00:02:10] Brett: What, what drug is it they would ask what, what’s the flavor? [00:02:15] Jeff: I don’t know, maybe it was just like, what’s going on tonight? It’s also possible this was just a guy that, like, maybe this was a guy who made promises. And he knew he couldn’t keep them, and so he gave out the number. But it wasn’t just men, or just women, right? Like, it was a, it was an interesting mix. And it was mostly calls, and not texts, which is, I think, data. [00:02:33] Jeff: But I don’t really know what to make of it. I just miss them. I miss my community. [00:02:37] Brett: I have had, I’ve had a lot of drug dealers phone numbers in my life, and my [00:02:44] Jeff: still in your phone? [00:02:45] Brett: No. My texts to them have been mostly about, like, where you at? Uh, you coming? [00:02:53] Jeff: You still a Taco Bell? [00:02:54] Brett: I can’t imagine what the, what the answer to what flavor[00:03:00] [00:03:00] Jeff: What’s the flavor? No, I mean, that’s just a thing to say, too, though. Like, what’s the [00:03:02] Brett: is [00:03:03] Jeff: Yeah, but like, I was, yeah, I don’t know. I was always very polite. I didn’t put anybody on, because I don’t know who’s listening. Um, you know, like, that’s all. So anyway, welcome, everybody. Here we are. Um, and, and we’re gonna, we’re gonna start with Graftitude again, aren’t we? [00:03:22] Brett: Are we? [00:03:23] Jeff: I thought we said that when we were coming in. I’m gonna ask Christina. Christina, we’re [00:03:26] grAPPtitude at the top! [00:03:26] Jeff: starting with Gratitude again. [00:03:28] Christina: Yeah, let’s start with Graftitude, let’s do it. [00:03:31] Brett: I have [00:03:31] Jeff: take, and then we’ll take calls. Let’s just get right into it. I mean, I got the lights are all blinking on my phone and callers are ready. [00:03:38] Brett: I have a very important graft. [00:03:41] Jeff: Okay, let’s, let’s do it, man. You’re a very important man. [00:03:44] Brett: admittedly, I’m a little drunk. If you couldn’t tell from the way I said the word admittedly, um, [00:03:52] Jeff: Or from the point at which he told you he only eats popsicles when he’s drunk or likes to eat them when [00:03:56] Brett: Like, there have been plenty of clues. If you’re not following along [00:04:00] at this point, I can’t help you. [00:04:02] Jeff: I’m just going to go ahead and put this in the topic list. Just gonna, [00:04:08] Brett: So, [00:04:09] Jeff: it’s like when you, when you add a to do that you’ve already done, I’m just going to add this to Brett’s Brett’s drunk. That’ll be number one. [00:04:15] Brett: this is, this is kind of a post mortem graftitude. Um, I have loved, if you ask me for the last five years, what’s your favorite? Mind mapping application. I would have told you iThoughts. Both for, [00:04:33] Jeff: you that before you even said it. [00:04:35] Brett: both for Mac and iOS. I have been a huge fan of iThoughts. And Craig from iThoughts has just declared he’s done. [00:04:46] Jeff: That’s very sad. [00:04:47] Brett: Yeah. So my gratitude is, uh, historical. Like, I have loved iThoughts so much and He’s going to maintain it for [00:05:00] as long as it works without any upkeep, which on macOS probably means two, maybe three OS [00:05:09] Jeff: Yeah, I was going to say, what does that? Yeah. [00:05:11] Brett: On iOS, nobody knows how long that’ll last. It could be the next, the next iOS version could kill the iOS version of iThoughts. [00:05:23] Brett: Um, but iThoughtsX is. My favorite mind mapping application. And I will be, I will be bitterly disappointed to have to switch to another. I mean, MindNode is a great app. I love the guys from MindNode. I’ve met them. I have talked to them. They’re great people. iThoughts has always had my heart. Um, so this is actually in memoriam. A, a gratitude in memoriam because [00:06:00] I, thoughts has declared the end of to head aware and the i thoughts application. [00:06:07] Jeff: I’m going through the Twitter feed, which is very old at this point for reasons that aren’t going to be hard for us to understand. But there’s an amazing update note from December 8th, 2021, where iThoughts has added latex support. And. It’s funny because I’ve never seen LaTeX look ugly. It definitely looks ugly in a PurpleMind map. [00:06:30] Brett: Yeah. I can’t imagine check looking good in any kinda visual application. Sure. [00:06:37] Christina: No, but like, but also This is why we’ll miss the app, because like, who else is going to, you know that, you know that like five people were incredibly vocal about LaTeX support, like five, like maybe three, like, but that’s, that’s it. We’re incredibly vocal and, and he like took the time to be like, okay, you know what, even though this is not going to be attractive and will not apply to [00:07:00] 99. [00:07:00] Christina: 999997 percent of users, I’m still going to do the work and do it. [00:07:05] Brett: he was, he was a nerd’s nerd, developer. [00:07:08] Jeff: Is. I mean, he’s not dead. He is a NerdsNerd [00:07:11] Brett: not. And I checked in with him. I’m like, Hey, man, you okay? And he’s like, Yeah, I just, I’m just done with the app thing. And He’s, he’s okay, but my favorite app is not. And so I feel a sense of loss. I swear, Craig is okay. Everything’s fine. [00:07:33] Brett: We’re just losing an app over the next few years. It’ll continue working. I guarantee it’ll continue working for a few years, but, but it’s dead [00:07:45] Jeff: this is sweet. So I’m, I’m putting this stuff in the show notes, but I’m at, I’m on the site now looking at like sort of the posts over the years. And there’s a June 2008 post that just says, started playing with iPhone development as a hobby. And that is such a beautiful, [00:08:00] uh, thing to look back on, given the history of this app, which is a [00:08:03] Christina: It really is. [00:08:04] Brett: even the, yeah, so I love it on Mac OS, but even on iOS, it was such a great, it was a nerds, nerds app. Like you, you had to appreciate, like you could create a mind map and output it to a word document, like natively in the app. And like, that’s just, it’s for nerds. It’s a, it’s an app for nerds and I’m going to miss it. [00:08:34] The future of “nerd” apps [00:08:34] Jeff: That’s amazing. Can I ask you a question as a developer? Is there, is there anything about your understanding of, of him having to shut this down that says anything at all? And for Christina, for you too, this is anything at all about the current landscape for [00:08:48] Christina: I was gonna, I was gonna say, I, I, like, I was gonna ask the same question, or like, have some of the same thoughts. Like, what does this say about how viable this making a nerds, nerd, nerds app is?[00:09:00] [00:09:00] Jeff: Hmm. [00:09:01] Brett: That’s a really good question. So I make an app called Marked [00:09:06] Christina: Mm hmm. [00:09:06] Brett: and Marked has gone from, in the time that Gruber would talk about it, it has gone from 3, 000 a month to 500 a month. Okay. Nine, nine. 900 [00:09:25] Jeff: This, if we were in the same room, I feel like this is a good time for me to just take your wallet, actually, now that we’re talking about money. [00:09:32] Brett: But, but my sales have gone down significantly and I can’t speak to the general, I don’t know what apps like Better Touch Tool and, uh, Hazel and you know, like these real nerd apps are doing. I don’t really know how they’re doing these days. Um, I know how my own nerdy apps are [00:10:00] doing. Um, I know that even Bunch, which I give away for free, has been down lately. [00:10:07] Brett: So, I don’t, I honestly don’t know what the future of nerd apps is. [00:10:16] Christina: hate saying this because people are going to get mad at me or whatever, but I think that it’s subscription, right? It’s subscription and it’s Sass, because that’s the only way you can make it work, and it isn’t like developers want to turn everything into a subscription, it’s that that’s the only way they can do it. [00:10:32] Christina: Make something sustainable, like, because otherwise it’s, I think that, you know, the number of people who are willing to install a new app is difficult. I think the barrier to entry is harder than it has ever been before. Um, and you have so many other people who you’re competing with free on the surface, right? [00:10:54] Christina: So like, it’s not actually free, but it’ll be free and, and then it’ll have, you know, some sort of hidden [00:11:00] payment thing. But yeah, I am. I worry the same way you [00:11:06] Brett: Define hidden payment thing. [00:11:08] Christina: Well, what I mean is, is like, you’ll download it, and it’ll be free, and then it’ll be like, oh, if you want to continue using this, you’ve got to pay X dollars a week or X dollars a [00:11:16] Brett: just to be clear in the Apple ecosystem, that is the only way you can offer a [00:11:24] Christina: I know. [00:11:25] Brett: if you want people to be able to try your product for free, [00:11:28] Christina: I know. [00:11:29] Brett: you have to offer that in that purchase after a week and say, now you have to continue paying like there’s like back in the days of like shareware, you know, like we could offer. [00:11:41] Christina: you don’t sell on the Mac App Store, right? Like, it, like, [00:11:44] Brett: We can offer seven 14 day trials and you can choose to pay. [00:11:49] Christina: which to be clear, I don’t think anybody, for any reason, like, other than they want to just maybe be as expansive as possible, I don’t know anybody who’s like, Oh, I have to be in the Mac App Store. [00:11:59] Christina: If I’m not [00:12:00] in the Mac App Store, I’m dead. Like, fuck that. Like, no actual [00:12:03] Brett: For, for a couple of years, that was true [00:12:06] Christina: I know it’s not anymore though, but it’s 2024. It’s not 20 It’s not It’s not [00:12:09] Brett: it is not true anymore. Exactly, exactly. And for a couple of years, it was true. If you weren’t in the Mac app store, you were, you were trying water. Now most income, like set up gives me more income than the Mac app store [00:12:27] Christina: Oh, yeah. [00:12:28] Brett: And, [00:12:29] Christina: they have better discovery and they have an actual captive audience of people who actually want to use apps, whereas like the [00:12:35] Brett: and a more, and a more curated selection [00:12:38] Christina: well, well, that’s, that’s kind of my point. Like the discovery is better, right? Because if you open, like I’m opening up the Mac App Store right now and I’m looking at it and here’s when I click on discover, here’s what I see. [00:12:48] Christina: I see games that we love and I’m seeing, um, [00:12:52] Brett: Bullshit games that charge you for upgrades. [00:12:56] Christina: And I’m seeing like, you know, I’m seeing like, uh, like you’re a cat, you know, in Cyber City [00:13:00] and Stray. And I’m like, oh yeah, because that’s really going to make up for being cyber, the fact that cyberpunk can’t be played. Like, fuck that. [00:13:05] Christina: And then I’m like, oh, what’s to watch? I can watch Mr. and Mrs. Smith on Amazon Prime. Okay. Like, I really like, um, um, What’s His Face, um, Childish Gambino, but like, I don’t care. And then I finally see, Oh, get started with Mac Essentials. And I, I click on that. And the first three things, the first, here, here are the five, here are the five things that I’ve got listed for essential business apps, Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, PDF Expert, and Highlights, PDF Reader, and Notes. [00:13:33] Christina: Like what the [00:13:34] Jeff: more. [00:13:35] Christina: And then it gets even worse when you go to must play Mac games, which this is just sad. Lies of Pea, Stray, Grid Legends, okay, Return to Monkey Island, like what year is this? Honestly. Evil Village for Mac, Resident Evil 4, these are Both old, you know, um, Disney Dreamlight Valley, like, what the fuck? [00:13:55] Christina: SnowRunner, which is a simulation game, like, these are, you know, like, not [00:14:00] good. Um, and then for, for photos, I’ve got Lightroom, Pixelmator Pro, Affinity Photo 2, Acorn 7, Photomator. So, like, photo, you’re finally good. Then, like, you’re finally, like, scrambling down, you’re like, okay, well, then you’ve got, for managing time and tasks, you’ve got Things 3, and Fantastical, and Agenda, and [00:14:17] Brett: Okay. [00:14:17] Jeff: I, you know, what was awesome is I was looking at the app store and I would never know about Office. [00:14:22] Christina: Right? That’s what I’m saying. Like, all of this stuff. This is just ridiculous. [00:14:26] Brett: Pixelmator showed up on the list with Adobe apps at all. [00:14:33] Jeff: Yes, but here’s the thing. [00:14:34] Christina: me too, but it shouldn’t be that far down. Like, I shouldn’t have to scroll down through, like, 15 things. [00:14:38] Jeff: The thing about Office, and also their thing of adding like, um, narrative stories where they talk about apps and whatever, that didn’t help, like some of them were good, but it didn’t help, right? It didn’t help this problem. They were well done, they were whatever, but you still feel like you’re, it feels like you found like a really cool shell on a really big beach, like it doesn’t feel like [00:14:57] Brett: so my app, Mark, got featured a [00:15:00] couple of times in these app stories and, and app, like, top picks for the, like, staff picks and, and it was a boost in sales. But I look at it now, a year, two, two years later, and yeah, their top picks are occasionally indie developers that I, I truly admire and respect. [00:15:26] Brett: Increasingly rarely so. [00:15:29] Word vs Pages [00:15:29] Jeff: Uh, this, the, I, I don’t mean to keep going on the Microsoft Office thing, but I was once visiting a friend in Portland in like, in like 2003, and he’s like, he’s like, Hey, you want to go? We got a new Chinese restaurant in the neighborhood. I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let’s go. We walk, we walk a few blocks and it’s a P. [00:15:43] Jeff: F. Chang’s. [00:15:44] Christina: I was going to say, was it a P. F. Changs? I was like, hell yes. [00:15:48] Jeff: And I love P. F. [00:15:49] Christina: but I’m just, me too. And, and honestly, Microsoft Office, it’s, if you’re going to use an offline [00:15:55] Jeff: Yeah, [00:15:55] Christina: it’s the best one. Like [00:15:57] Jeff: I use it. [00:15:58] Christina: me too. Ain’t nobody [00:16:00] using pages. Ain’t nobody using, um, uh, you know, like numbers. [00:16:03] Christina: Um, uh. Brett has his hand raised, but Brett, you don’t count. And honestly, you’re not using numbers if you’re doing real spreadsheets. Like, no one [00:16:11] Brett: true. [00:16:12] Christina: a real spreadsheet [00:16:12] Jeff: Yeah, exactly. [00:16:14] Christina: It makes a really great, easy chart, but like, nobody who has actual data needs would ever even come close. Like, you would [00:16:20] Brett: Well, if I have actual data needs, I’m working on the command line. I’m working with CSV and JSON data and actually processing it. If I, if I need to do, if I need to do a, [00:16:32] Jeff: when he’s drunk. [00:16:33] Brett: if I need to do a mail merge, fuck, [00:16:36] Jeff: Mail [00:16:37] Brett: fuck numbers, um, yeah, no, I understand what you’re saying. It’s, [00:16:42] Christina: I’m just saying like, you know, but like, but still no one’s using pages for anything. Like even, even people who use pages, like honestly, like, like no one’s using that. Um, [00:16:53] Jeff: once in a while I get a pages file [00:16:55] Christina: me too. And I’m like, what the [00:16:56] Jeff: the fuck? It’s like you just sent me the British Pound. What am I [00:17:00] supposed to do with [00:17:00] Christina: And like, and I had the same reaction and I’m like, and I literally have, you know, pages installed on every single device I own, but I’m still like, what is this bullshit? [00:17:09] Christina: Like, [00:17:09] Jeff: someone’s gonna come at you with the British Pound and you gotta be ready. [00:17:12] Brett: I would, exactly. I would never, I would never send anybody a pages file. Or, or numbers file, like I would always export to DocX or export to like just CSV or, or like a compatible format, because I am fully aware that the rest of the world does not use Apple products, even and, [00:17:36] Jeff: an idea [00:17:37] Brett: It’s so nice, [00:17:38] Jeff: colleagues sadly, are not textile people. And by not textile people, I mean, not even really willing to take a minute to think about why I might always say, oh, I have it in a text file. Right. I just, I just, I’m ex, I’m eccentric, which I am. I’m [00:17:53] Christina: For them, it’s Google Docs or nothing. [00:17:56] Jeff: Yeah. And so I think now though, I think I troll, um, better [00:18:00] than just sending a text file and I could start sending pages, files. Especially to my, to my PC friends who I do not look down on. Um, but maybe that’s a good bit to do. Like, Oh, I’m really into this thing, pages. It’s an [00:18:11] Christina: Oh, yeah. I mean, that would be hilarious because at that point, because the thing is it like, at least like, like OpenOffice or Libre Office or whatever the fuck it’s called. Um, I always forget that it’s Libre Office now because the OpenOffice thing, there [00:18:24] Jeff: Right, right, right, [00:18:25] Christina: Um, but, uh, but like, those formats suck, but like, you know, you can save it in a doc or docx, it’ll be, your formatting will be fucked. [00:18:35] Christina: And you absolutely don’t want to open a spreadsheet at all. But you can get by with it, right? Like you just definitely don’t add any comments or, or, you know, expect, um, your very carefully Um, like if you’ve got a very specifically formatted thing, don’t expect that to survive, but whatever, you can open it, but a pages file, I don’t even think Apple allows a pages viewer to exist. [00:18:54] Christina: I don’t even think like you can get one on Windows because, and that’s Apple’s fault to be very clear. Like that’s 100 [00:19:00] percent on them. I think that they, like, I don’t understand why that is a product that ever existed to be honest. Um, because like Apple works, Claris works, there was a Windows version, so, you know, I don’t know. [00:19:12] Christina: Like. But anyway, but also to me, I’m kind of like, I get it. You didn’t have Office on the iPad, but you know, was, was, was Pages really worth it? Like, even like 20 years ago when they [00:19:24] Jeff: You know, what would be amazing is if there was just an Incredible Pages app on Apple Vision Pro. Just, I don’t even know what incredible would mean in that context. [00:19:35] Christina: Oh, I actually, what’s funny, I think the only native one is Keynote. [00:19:39] Jeff: yeah, that makes sense. I [00:19:41] Christina: I think all the other ones literally just run in iPad mode, [00:19:44] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s, I think that’s right. Yeah, that’s [00:19:46] Christina: is funny. [00:19:47] Jeff: Uh, can I ask you all, since we’re talking, since we’re talking about, um, Word documents and documents in general, I have this Problem I’ve been really trying to figure out how to rein in, which is that if I am getting, and I have [00:20:00] great relationships with all of my colleagues, okay, so I’m not, I, I, despite what I said earlier, I’m not actually trolling people on a regular basis, but I am tired of hearing about how I’m eccentric because I like text files and read CSVs sometimes in a text editor. [00:20:12] Jeff: Fuck you, man. That’s just how you got to live. But anyway, it’s how the ancestors did it. But like, I cannot, if somebody sends me a document for review, There’s I literally cannot even take in the content until I have normalized the formatting and especially normalized whether there are periods or not at the end of bulleted list items. [00:20:34] Style Guides make the world go round [00:20:34] Jeff: Do you have this problem or are you able to just go ahead and read? I can’t read until I like smoothed out the sheets. I’m like, I’m not going to lay in a dirty bed. [00:20:40] Christina: I mean, I think that I think that I can read without it, but I definitely do go through like that jarring thing, which is like, okay, what is our format here? Right? Like, are we Oxford comma people? Are we not like, are we period of end people? Are we not, are we capitalizing, you know, in headlines or not? [00:20:54] Brett: in any given list, if there are periods at the end of [00:21:00] every list item, okay, if, if the first two list items end without periods, and then suddenly like a two sentence list item that has two periods in it, I have a problem. Like, consistency. That’s, that’s my goal. [00:21:18] Jeff: Yeah. It reminds me, did you watch the, um, Netflix series Moe? Uh, it’s a Palestinian American dude. Uh, what’s his full name? Muhammad. I’ll get it, but he, it’s amazing. See, it’s very funny. It’s very poignant. It’s amazing. But there’s a scene where he walks into a grocery store and this woman tries to give him a sample of chocolate hummus. [00:21:39] Jeff: And he goes, It’s fucking war crime. That’s like a little bit how I feel about what you just described. [00:21:46] Christina: I agree with that. Um, that’s, and this is because we are, we are like newsroom people, Jeff. Like we, like we have to, I mean, like you too, to a little bit, to, to, to, um, you work with documentation and stuff, so you too, Brett, but like we all work, [00:22:00] like you have to have consistency. You have to have a style guide. [00:22:02] Christina: There’s nothing worse than when you have the style guide and then you have people who refuse to adhere to the style guide and you’re like, what the fuck are we doing? And I don’t always agree with the style guide. Like Mashable didn’t believe in the Oxford comma, which I hated. And then we, we did a, we varied with our headline thing. [00:22:19] Christina: I think we were capitalizing for the most part and then we switched to not. And what was hard, though, is I went to Gizmodo where we did have the Oxford comma, Praise Jesus, but then it was lowercase headlines. So, [00:22:31] Jeff: yeah. Yeah. [00:22:33] Christina: and so it was just like a weird muscle memory thing, like, what are you getting used to? [00:22:37] Christina: Um, but the thing is, even though I don’t always agree with it, like, I’m like, okay, if we, you know, just be consistent, like, that’s the only thing. Like, I don’t have to agree with it, but I’ll follow it. [00:22:47] Jeff: Totally. And also Style Guide’s like, I’m okay with the Style Guide being a living document. I’m even okay with people not using it if the way they don’t use it is totally consistent throughout the [00:22:56] Brett: Yeah, totally. 100%. Yes. [00:22:59] Jeff: I’m putting [00:23:00] something in the show notes, it’s Muhammad Amr, it’s Moe Amr, uh, it’s a clip of this hummus moment, it’s really incredible. [00:23:06] Jeff: Anyway. Alright, thanks for, I mean I would love to talk about style guides and making one right now with a copy editor, fuckin love it. I have Brett’s Markdown style guide from his, uh, Oracle thing, which I bet nobody listens to, nobody uses, cause what the fuck is a style guide, I’m in a hurry! [00:23:21] Brett: It’s true. [00:23:21] Christina: I mean, people who do documentation definitely do. [00:23:24] Jeff: Yes! But here’s the thing, right? Like, for me, so we do a lot of work where it’s like we send something to a client. We might send an outline to a client, right? An outline is easier to make a fuck of than a document. And, and it is, I just feel, I feel like such an old man, because I am 10 years older than anybody else in my organization. [00:23:43] Jeff: But I’m like Is it a value or not to us that an outline that goes to a client or an email or anything is like, I remember like, was it Jay Rosen who’s, I don’t quote Jay Rosen often, but I remember when he was like, he was everywhere, like in the 2007s, eights, he [00:24:00] had a great line, which I used in the newsroom all the time, which is like, everything’s an editorial product, everything, your [00:24:05] Christina: Oh yeah, that was [00:24:05] Jeff: texts, your, your, your, you know, private texts, your tweets, everything. [00:24:09] Jeff: Right. And I don’t, these kids today. Yeah. Nope, they haven’t heard of J Rosen, which is great. I mean, [00:24:14] Christina: No, it is, well, I mean, except for him, right, like, I think that, that Jay Rosen probably wishes that, that he were still, like, the, like, he and Jeff Jarvis were, like, the go to, oh, and Ken Docter, right? It was, like, it was, like, Ken Docter, Jay Rosen, and, and Jeff Jarvis were, like, the future of media people that you would talk to. [00:24:30] Christina: And, [00:24:30] Jeff: future of media people that you would talk to. [00:24:33] Christina: Yeah. Um, it was like, you know, the guy from NYU guy from, you know, SUNY and then Ken, doctor [00:24:38] Jeff: And then throw in Clay Shirky if you’re feeling edgy. [00:24:41] Christina: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, throw in, uh, clay Shike if you want to, and then maybe even like, mention like, um, um, the, the, uh, information wants to be like [00:24:52] Jeff: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Neil Postman. Not [00:24:54] Christina: Neil Postman, [00:24:54] Jeff: Yeah, Neil Postman. Oh, these are the greatest hits. Christina, I love when this happens when we free [00:25:00] associate on the like mid to late 2000s journalism scene. [00:25:04] Christina: I know, I know. It’s like, [00:25:05] Jeff: It’s like sports fans. It’s like, do you remember the 2003 Cardinals? [00:25:09] Christina: What’s so funny is, is um, you know, the Messenger shut down. And, um, which, a friend of mine worked there, and I was very sad for him. Um, but I’m gonna be completely honest. Like, I’m not, I’m not gonna in any way judge anyone who took their first staff job, or like, took a job there, or whatnot. [00:25:27] Christina: For the most part, for going to work there. I am going to judge people who like, left. Relatively stable places to go work there, because is what was so funny to me, the, the ideas and, um, um, speaking of, um, like, um, journalism type of, you know, talking head types, uh, Joshua Benton, who, who created the, the Nieman Lab at Harvard, um, he, um, um, um, [00:25:52] Jeff: no, I’m thinking I’m actually thinking of the Civic Media Lab at MIT. Sorry, [00:25:55] Christina: Okay, yeah, but no, but he created, he created the Neiman Lab at Harvard, um, [00:26:00] he like had been on a tear for like the last year about how dumb and backwards the messenger was, which we were all saying, we were like, this idea is like straight out of 2011, like this is backwards, but what it reminded me of was in 2010, Michael Wolff was hired to remake Ad Age. [00:26:19] Christina: Like the, the Prometheus and Apollo Global, I don’t know if Apollo was actually involved, but Prometheus, uh, like some private equity fucks, like bought out the, the media group that owned the, the Hollywood Reporter, Billboard, and Ad Age. And, um, or Adweek, sorry, not Adage, Adweek. And, um, they hired Janice Minn to do, um, The Hollywood Reporter, and she actually did a really good job. [00:26:41] Christina: Like it, it didn’t save it per se, but they definitely were able to resell that for a much higher multiple than they could have. And she made it into a very good magazine because she’s fucking awesome. And they hired Michael Wolff to take on Adweek. And. A friend of mine who I worked with, she had some feelers out to go get a job there. [00:26:57] Christina: And then she mentioned me. She was like, Oh, we should definitely hire [00:27:00] my friend. And so, um, the girl who was going to run it, I guess, kind of under him, like his managing person, like she talked to me and she was like selling me on it. And then I get on a call with Michael Wolf and it’s basically a job offer. [00:27:11] Christina: And I’m struck by a couple of things. First, Michael Wolf clearly has no idea who I am. No idea why he’s even talking to me. He’s just. Trying to hire away people, and I worked at a prominent publication at the time. And, and so, but he has no fucking clue who I am or why he’s talking to me. And the second thing was, is he was just telling me how, like, Oh, well, Mashable’s gonna be dead. [00:27:31] Christina: TechCrunch is gonna be dead. All these things are gonna be dead. We’re gonna throw so much at this. Like, you, you, you can just forget about it. You definitely want to come here because we’re, we’re going to basically annihilate you. And I’m, I’m like 25. And I’m like, okay, I don’t think you know what you’re doing, because this is insane and this isn’t how media works right now, and this is a ridiculous idea, this is like late 2010. [00:27:56] Christina: And so I, um, so I guess I was 24, or 26, [00:28:00] and so I, um, I basically was like, I, I, I opted not to continue with the process. I was like, this is weird. Also it was weird to me that they wanted to offer me a job without even like seeing my writing samples, like they were just like, really? The whole thing just felt weird. [00:28:14] Christina: off. And so I was like, I’m not doing this. And, and Lauren also opted to not do it. And we were very grateful because less than a year later, Michael Wolff was, um, kicked out and the whole thing was a disaster. Well, I went to look back on that and I was like, man, why does the messenger remind me so much of this? I went back to look and the guy who led the investment and who hired Michael Wolff to, to do, um, Adweek was Jimmy Finkelstein, [00:28:39] Jeff: Oh, [00:28:39] Christina: the guy who then did the messenger. So, [00:28:42] Jeff: don’t talk to me. Talk to Jimmy Finkelstein, [00:28:45] Christina: so like [00:28:46] Jeff: Jimmy Tentos. Sorry. [00:28:48] Christina: No, no, but, but like the funny thing is, is I was like, okay, this, this concept, which I should have given some precursor, there was this attempt at making a, like, mass general news site called The Messenger, they blew [00:29:00] through 50 million dollars in under a year, they hired like 200 and something journalists, they had originally said they were going to hire 550, they didn’t hire that many, they They, um, basically, they hired Neitz and Zimmerman, which again, talking about like, like 2010s, like throwbacks, like wait, wait, wait to pretend it’s still 20, 2012, you guys, um, to be like their, their viral person, even though social traffic doesn’t exist anymore. [00:29:23] Christina: Um, and, um, the whole thing was just like, A throwback to an earlier era, and of course it collapsed and failed, and they ran out of money on January 31st, fired people without any severance, except for people in California who they had to pay vacation time to. And um, the whole thing is just a disaster and embarrassing. [00:29:40] Christina: But, the thing is that struck me as I was like, Okay. Everybody was like, including myself, was like, oh, this is such a 2010s idea, early 2010s idea. And it, but it also reminded me, and then I found out why, because it was the same people, of, of the, the, you know, ad week, um, attempt. Except even in 2010, [00:30:00] like, my, like, very young, very green ass was like, Oh, this is a bad idea even now. [00:30:06] Christina: Like, so it’s a throwback to a bad idea from back then. Like, at least the daily, I know why, I know why people took that job and like, it failed, but at least it had paying users. And like, we all thought the iPad was going to be a thing. Like, I understand why people took a job at the [00:30:22] Jeff: Yep, [00:30:23] Christina: I’m going to be honest. [00:30:24] Christina: I don’t understand why anybody took a job at the messenger [00:30:27] Jeff: it’s pretty crazy. It’s pretty crazy. And it does, it feels so old. Like, I remember when, um, when Al Jazeera America started, like, I, I, um, well, first of all, like, this goes back to, harkens back to a really amazing time, which is that there was this guy, Mark Coatney, who was, who, who originally was working at Newsweek and started a Tumblr. [00:30:46] Jeff: It was like one of the first Tumblers that are like a news organization. It was around the same time that I started the Utney Reader Tumblr, right? Like when I was working there. And he and I got to know each other online because as he said, it’s like you’re two bomber pilots like flying over the land and you just kind of look and [00:31:00] nod at each other because the only, I think the only other Tumblr for a media organization at that point was like Good Morning America. [00:31:05] Jeff: Um, and, and so [00:31:07] Christina: Mashable, but yeah, but [00:31:08] Jeff: You’re Mashable. Yes, I’m sorry, Mashable. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, well, Utni wasn’t mainstream. But yeah, I, for some reason, I kind of like, Mashable felt like Mashable on Tumblr, right? It wasn’t like, oh, look, Mashable’s on Tumblr. [00:31:19] Christina: Oh, that’s exactly what it was. Cause I ran that account for a long time [00:31:22] Jeff: let’s see now, it should have been you and me and Cody in bomber planes, like, looking over the thing, right? [00:31:28] Jeff: Cause like, that was really fun to run a Tumblr from a media organization at that point, because you got out of the CMS. Like, although actually, they based, like, Newsweek ended up, was it New York? Was it the New York Review of Books? Somebody ended up basing a huge chunk of their CMS, essentially inside of Tumblr. [00:31:44] Jeff: I don’t remember how that worked if it’s true, we won’t talk about that. So anyway, Mark Cote and he ends up getting a job as like the media director at Tumblr makes sense. And then he gets hired on as like vice vice president of something for Al Jazeera America, when Al Jazeera decided they wanted to have an American based thing [00:32:00] and they were doing that same kind of like the future of media is cocaine. [00:32:04] Jeff: It’s like, you know, the past of media was also cocaine. So we just got to figure out how to work in the, I was. I was in phone calls about a job, I had to move to New York to be an editor, I have never dealt with more jacked up, like completely unreliable, total newsroom junkie people in my life. And I was like, I had like two phone conversations and I was just like, I said to my wife, I’m like, we’re definitely not going to New York. This is not going to go well. I loved that. I wrote for them just once and I loved the experience. But like, that was another one of those things where like, that’s what makes the messenger feel like it was 2000. [00:32:41] Christina: Oh yeah, 1000%. Well, they also, they, they spent 8 million on real estate. They had offices in Palm Beach, um, in Fideye [00:32:49] Jeff: oh, so, so Finkelstein was money laundering. [00:32:52] Christina: Oh, yeah. I mean, clearly this whole thing, it was, it was like, and like, this guy wrote this thing for New York mag about what it was like. [00:33:00] He was like, yeah, we had this office like 42, 000 square feet in Fidei and the desks were empty almost all the time. [00:33:05] Christina: And I’m like, what are you doing? Um, Defector, um, which is a, uh, like a reader sponsored publication, which is great from the people behind Deadspin. They wrote like a thing about basically like how many, you know, newsrooms like theirs could have been funded by, you know, the 50 million. Um, and like the defectors like, like annual budget is around three million dollars or whatever and, and like they’re able to increase it, you know, little by little, but like, you know, and, and they’re paying salaries and they’re being able to pay some dividends, so to speak, but like, it’s certainly not, you know, drowning in money, but it’s a great publication and they pay their freelancers really well and, um, uh, yeah, it is like, yeah. [00:33:45] Christina: I’m like, okay, you probably wouldn’t be able to have, you know, 20 defectors. I don’t think that that many exist, but it is really telling. It’s like, wow, you could have used the money in so many other ways. [00:33:56] Jeff: yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that’s [00:34:00] absolutely the case. [00:34:01] Brett: weirdly, we’re still on my pick for Graftitude. I don’t, I don’t, I have no idea where we’re at. I am, I’m not, I’m not conscious enough. [00:34:13] Jeff: I’ll tell you, remember, we’ll handle it. So I do want to [00:34:16] Brett: over, take [00:34:17] Jeff: want to close out the messenger conversation by saying, if you go to their URL, it is just the name, the messenger and an email info at the messenger. And I would love to know the payment arrangement that has this URL staying alive. [00:34:31] Jeff: Is it like a 20 year subscription through hover? [00:34:33] Christina: That’s, that’s all I can figure. Cause, cause they literally shut off. They literally shut it off the day that they announced. And I was like, oh, they’re not paying a second more of AWS stuff. So like, yeah. Um, okay. Let me, let me DNS this. Let me see who the DNS is. Cause I wonder if this is like being hosted on Netlify or Vercel [00:34:48] Jeff: I know, right? Right? [00:34:49] Christina: Pages. Like, this is on some sort of cheap ass. Yeah. [00:34:53] Jeff: I wish that they would just have a little blinking under construction sign. [00:35:00] Or just like a gravestone blinking, maybe? Something like that. You could have fun with it. Is what [00:35:05] Christina: You really could, but, but that would, you know, I think that there’s probably like a part of them were like, Oh, we can sell the assets you mean? And it’s like, it’s, it’s like wolf. com. [00:35:12] Jeff: Yeah. [00:35:13] Christina: um, the opposite of office. And when, when, um, like when you’re selling the URL, like, and that’s it. [00:35:19] Jeff: Also, can I [00:35:19] Christina: okay, no, okay. So this is going to, so the DNS is still hosted, um, on AWS. [00:35:25] Christina: Um, and so I bet this is just. And AWS, [00:35:29] Jeff: went way down. Um, I, here’s the, the other thing about The Messenger, just before we close, is that if you were like, I just got a job at this new news organization called The Messenger, I’d be like, you’re Jehovah’s Witness, or what, you’re Nation of Islam, like, what’s going on here? It does not sound, it sounds like a religious paper, or like a cult paper. [00:35:45] Jeff: It’s the worst name. [00:35:47] Christina: They weren’t even in like the SEO listing, like it took them months to get into SEO. Like they didn’t even launch that way. Like, like, like, um, um, uh, um, like again, Neiman did this thing, like Josh Benton, like did this thing where he was like, these are the [00:36:00] things that rank higher than the messenger on Google for the messenger on Google. [00:36:03] Christina: It was, it was art. Um, all right. That’s enough of that. [00:36:08] Sponsor: Hims [00:36:08] Hey men, sometimes it can feel like we’re too busy to take care of our health problems. But with so much going on, we don’t want to spend our free time waiting around in doctor’s offices and long pharmacy lines. Now you don’t have to with HIMS. [00:36:21] HIMS is changing men’s health care by providing simple and convenient access to science backed treatments for erectile dysfunction, hair loss, weight loss, and more. 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[00:37:28] com slash Overtired for details and important safety information. Subscription required. Price varies based on product and subscription plan. [00:37:36] Christina: All right. Um, so, so I thought [00:37:38] Jeff: Yours is fun. Yours is a fun one. [00:37:41] Speaking of throwbacks [00:37:41] Christina: Yeah, okay, so kind of speaking of throwback software a little bit, do you guys remember an app called Cover Sutra? [00:37:47] Brett: totally. [00:37:49] Jeff: I still remember that name. Jesus. It’s [00:37:52] Christina: it was like basically like a, uh, uh, uh, like a, an iTunes controller where you’d see like the cover art of your, um, you know, what was [00:38:00] playing back and it was really beautiful and it was nicer than like the mini mode in iTunes or whatever. Um, and, um, the people who made it were great as well. Part of the Delicious Generation, great app. [00:38:11] Christina: This one I actually discovered while we were recording our last episode, um, and I, I was kind of playing with it while we were recording with Brian, uh, and, because Jason Snell wrote about this, um, on his blog. It’s called Sleeves, um, and, or, or, or Sleeve rather, and, and Sleeve 2 is, is the current version. [00:38:30] Christina: Um, it’s 6 if you buy it directly. I think it’s 7 in the Mac App Store, 8 in the Mac App Store. I bought it directly because I always worry about the App Store limitations, even if they don’t exist. Um, and, um, basically it’s, um, it’s, it’s on your desktop and it’ll like, let you control music from Apple music, Spotify, as well as Doppler. [00:38:50] Christina: Um, it has, um, Last. fm scrabbling support. It has a bunch of different themes and you can also customize how it looks. Um, and you can even like [00:39:00] share your stylings and then, um. It does integrate with, like, the Spotify Developer API, if you want to have loving tracks, like, enabled on Spotify, so you can love a track when it’s playing back on, um, your, uh, your thing. [00:39:15] Christina: But, um, it also supports, um, like, iCloud Sync, so, like, for instance, themes that I’ve created. And, um, on my Mac, and I actually just figured this out, on my iMac will show up on my, um, laptop. Um, so when you, when you customize, like, what the, how, how the things look, and you can really get granular about, like, how the layout works, like what it looks like, how it sits and is positioned on your desktop, if it’s going to be over or under things, you can create, you know, um, uh, uh, system shortcuts and, and other stuff. [00:39:47] Christina: Um, I really, really like it. And so Yeah, it’s really pretty, and so this is going to be a thing that not a lot of people are going to need to use. But, I mean, honestly, like, you’re probably fine with just, [00:40:00] you know, the built in thing. And I know that some people prefer having menu bar based controls, I get it. [00:40:06] Christina: But I often have, like, a second monitor, which is not being actively used for much. And so having this kind of positioned in, like, a lower corner quadrant, it’s a, it’s a nice, it’s a nice little app, especially for, for six bucks. [00:40:18] Brett: Yeah, I keep, I keep all of my window positioning, I keep space available at the top and the bottom of the screen for exactly the kind of thing that this provides. Uh, do you guys remember an app called, um, Simplify? [00:40:38] Christina: Yeah, [00:40:41] Brett: You could create, you could create what were called jackets for simplify using CSS and HTML. And [00:40:49] Christina: I loved, I loved Simplify. Yes, [00:40:50] Brett: I, I created, I created a jacket called Sideshow that gave you like a full screen menu bar at the left side of your [00:41:00] screen. That would like show like progress and, and track name, album name, all of that. And I love that app. [00:41:08] Brett: It has gone. Unupdated for years now. [00:41:13] Christina: Yeah, it’s not even available in the Mac App Store anymore, like the website still exists, it says 2012 to 2021. And I think you can probably still, yeah, if you click on the download link, like it’ll go to open app store and it’s not even available anymore, but that was a great app. [00:41:27] Brett: it’s dead now, but I’m really into Sleeve. Um, that is, I, I hope they open up, I hope they open up an API that I can develop for. [00:41:39] Christina: Yeah, you should reach out to them. [00:41:40] Brett: I will 100% make jackets for [00:41:43] Jeff: pull those jackets out of the closet. [00:41:46] Brett: yeah, yeah, [00:41:46] Christina: Yeah, no, no, you should totally do it. Um, and, and I think, uh, you should reach out to them because, [00:41:51] Jeff: sober up and reach out to him. [00:41:53] Christina: yeah, no, I was gonna say, well, they’re, well, they’re, they’re. [00:41:56] Brett: You can’t tell me what to do. [00:42:00] Sorry. [00:42:01] Christina: they’re a two person team, but, like, that is actually probably the perfect size for, [00:42:08] Jeff: Yeah, for that kind of [00:42:09] Christina: who would, yeah, exactly, people who would be like, be able to be like, yeah, [00:42:12] Jeff: It has to go through zero meetings. Yeah, that’s amazing. I love it. That looks super cool. Um, okay. Should I do mine? I have two because one, well, one is, it’s fine that one is tedious because that’s how we love apps, but I just wanted to do two. So one’s a, one’s a Mac app and one’s a just iOS app. [00:42:36] Jeff: Maybe it’s on the Mac. I don’t use it there, but I was using, I’ve been using TablePlus for, for SQL tables for like ever and. It is, it’s great. And then they added a very cool feature, which is like this little AI column. So you can just be like, I want to do this. Give me the, it’s just the great for being a lazy SQL programmer person. [00:42:54] Jeff: Um, which I am, but I’m normally I’d be looking stuff up. Yeah, it’s great. But. It’s [00:43:00] that just got that function, like whatever, it seemed to have gotten funky. I was getting a lot of weird crashes in the whole thing, whatever. And now table plus people, if that’s fixed, I’m sorry. I don’t mean to tell anybody not to do it, but I did have to go find something else cause I was on deadline. [00:43:14] Jeff: And so I ended up at Navicat, Navicat, Navicat for SQLite and I love it. I love it so much. And I think that it has. It’s, this is kind of strange, but like, I do more work in my relational databases now, and part of it is I need to be, cause I’ve got a project that has this like super complex relational database, but like, it’s beautiful. [00:43:38] Jeff: It’s easy to use. It’s got some wonderful features. It’s got a really cool like charting feature. If you want to just make some quick charts, um, it’s, it’s just like, oh, it’s so good. And I don’t know what to say. Like if you. If you are looking for a SQL database app or a SQLite database app, whatever, like you already know what you want. [00:43:55] Jeff: And I just, I just want to put that out there as something that if you’ve been using something else forever, like [00:44:00] TablePlus, which I love, just play with this a little bit. Cause I was really impressed and I was glad that I had a reason to try something else. Cause literally I’ve been using TablePlus since I was in a newsroom, which is at this point. [00:44:13] Jeff: 2012 was the last newsroom I was in. And so, um, so anyway, that was fun. And the other one is like Casey lists of ATP of, you know, accidental tech podcasts and whatever, lots of things, I guess, uh, in life, but has this app call sheet, which because it was called call sheet, I just never knew. What the hell is this thing? [00:44:31] Jeff: It didn’t like hit me. And then he was talking about, I’ve started listening to ATP again. I go through seasons, uh, with ATP and when I’m going through a season now, I will admit that it was this thing that happens to me where I just want more Syracuse, uh, um, and, and Casey was talking about call sheet. [00:44:47] Jeff: I’m like, I gotta check this app out. It’s an amazing app for just like, you know, how. Fucking maddening it is to look at IMDb, um, when you want to know something. And if you’re not watching Prime, you don’t have that thing where you can stop and look at the actors. This is just like [00:45:00] a beautiful app that is so it’s, it’s well done. [00:45:02] Jeff: It’s pretty, it does the things you want it to do. It’s quick and it allows you to just be like, I’m watching this thing. Show me who’s in it. And now show me who else was in it. And it is. Exactly what you need. It’s crisp. It’s clear. The information is right there. And if you want to go to IMDb, you can get there from there, but I just think he, he’s done an amazing job [00:45:21] Christina: He has, I really, really like it. Like I bought it like as soon as it came out and I’m a huge fan because the thing is the IMDb app used to be really good and it’s gotten worse and worse. And I used to pay for IMDb Pro and I don’t anymore. Um, cause I don’t, I don’t need. So I don’t need it for the email access, which is why I used to pay for it. [00:45:41] Christina: And, um, but the IODB app is just like kind of garbage now. And, and the website, um, like, um, uh, John August used to make a, a Safari extension that would like re Like, do, like, would fix, like, IMDB, um, but, but that hasn’t been updated in a long time, um, years at this point, but, but CallSheet is, [00:46:00] is great. Um, I will, the one thing I will note, because I think that it’s great, I think that it’s, um, a really good app and, and it is great for 99% I will say there is some information that isn’t exact and isn’t always going to be as up to date because of the source that they’re using is, is like, just not as good as IMDB. [00:46:18] Christina: But for the vast majority of things, like it is really, really solid. Um, and, um, like I, I like how, um, Casey’s designed it. Like you said, like you have an easy way of going to Wikipedia or to, you know, the website for the project or [00:46:33] Jeff: You can choose what you’re, you can have a quick link from your results and you can choose what that is. And one of them is to go to the technical information, like what camera was used in this movie? Like, it’s, it’s so awesome. So awesome. And I do understand why it’s called Call Sheet. Now that I know what the app is, but it just didn’t, both that and the icon didn’t really grab me ever. [00:46:50] Jeff: And so I was like, what is this thing? Anyway, I love it. And I also want to say, well, one thing about IMDB, which is that, do you remember when Boing Boing went to shit? Like all of a sudden it was just [00:47:00] spammy ass ads. Everywhere it was just butts and pimples like thrust in your face, um, which is what I think I wish high school was like, but it wasn’t for me. [00:47:09] Jeff: Um, anyway, uh, like that’s what IMDB is. And like, I still remember I used to go to Boing Boing every day. I’m doing this, Christina, because we, we opened the hatch on this one. I used to go there every fucking day. I used to love it. And then just like overnight, it just became trash. The content wasn’t all that different, but the ads were just like in the interstitials and it was just like, it’s a nightmare. [00:47:31] Jeff: Anyway, just to say that about Boeing buying, sorry, Boeing buying. I know some of you people, you were great people, great thinkers, great writers, but I don’t know, you needed money. I guess, I guess you needed money. [00:47:42] Christina: I mean, it’s weird too because like, um, you know, two of the, the co founders are, are gone. So, [00:47:49] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [00:47:51] Christina: like, like Carl is still there and, and, and Rob might as well be a co founder because he’s been there for forever. But like, you know, yeah. [00:47:58] Jeff: Yeah. That’s a bummer. And then the [00:48:00] last thing I’ll say, which is about Casey List, which is that, in coming back to Accidental Tech Podcast, which of course, the very first fucking episode I’m hearing about Phish from Marco, um, which I think is a great bet. I think the fact that you can’t listen to an episode, it feels like, without Marco either talking about Phish or someone giving a shit about Phish. The P H I S H, that’s what I’m talking about, the band, is kind of delightful because I don’t think we should change in many ways. But, uh, can you imagine, to listeners of the, of the podcast, I want to just, I don’t often appreciate Casey’s role enough, and I did for the first time in a way I never had, which is like, can you imagine trying to find your place between John Siracusa and Marco Arman? [00:48:41] Jeff: Can you imagine trying to figure out Where your two feet are between those two dudes, who I love. But anyway, I just wanted to share that and, and, and give some appreciation. Also call sheets, one of those apps, and actually while we’re on the topic of all three of these guys, uh, Overcast is one of [00:49:00] these apps too, where I just would love to have a line into all the different decisions you had to make along the way to make the thing, what it is, because. [00:49:09] Jeff: Both with podcasts, which Overcast, of course, is a podcast app, and with call sheet, trying to get this information the way you would want it. You just have to make so many calls, like any app, but I bet they were all interesting. I bet every one of those calls was interesting that you had to make. So anyway, thanks for, thanks for the good work, everybody. [00:49:25] The Grammys. You knew it was coming. [00:49:25] Jeff: There we are, Graftitude. So here’s the deal. When we start with Mental Health Corner, we’ll take Mental Health Corner to the end. When we start with Graftitude, I think it’s probably very easy to take Graftitude to the end. But we do have a little time. We do need to talk about the Grammys. And I want to, Christina, you are always the driver of this. [00:49:41] Jeff: I, I am always a distant observer. I cannot watch the show. I’ve never been able to do it. I, and I’m not being, I, my wife and I talk about this because she, she likes. It’s like, I swear to God I’m not being a snob, but it does hurt my heart to watch a thing that I love, music, [00:50:00] get compressed into this very gross for me thing. [00:50:06] Jeff: Now, [00:50:06] Christina: Oh, yeah. [00:50:07] Jeff: want to be clear, and I know you, I mean, we all see that, right? Like I also love the performances. And so even though I can’t sit through one, I’m on TikTok. There’s Tracy Chapman. You know, there’s Killer Mike accepting his awards. There’s Boy Genius being fucking adorable running for their awards. [00:50:23] Jeff: Like I love it. And so Christina, I always like hearing from you on this stuff. You originally told us we had to talk about Miley Cyrus. [00:50:30] Christina: Well, just because we love Miley and Miley run one record of the year, um, for, for flowers and, um, best, uh, um, best pop solo, um, for flowers record of the year, I definitely think it was deserved. Um, and, uh, I was a little bit surprised that it got it. Cause I was like, Oh, maybe they’ll give it to what was I made for whatever that, that one song of the year, which. [00:50:51] Christina: was completely inevitable because they love, love, love Billie Eilish at the Grammys. Like they, they love her. Um, she’s one of the few like young [00:51:00] kind of artists who has already achieved that thing that like a lot of legacy artists have where like you see their name and I’m like, Oh, I bet they didn’t even listen to the album. [00:51:07] Christina: They just voted. Right. Um, but, but that was also a great song and huge movie. Um, I have to say though, like, yeah, the performances this year were really good. Uh, Trevor Noah was funny. Uh, he made like a, a Taylor Swift, um, uh, NFL joke at the beginning that like she laughed at and that was funny. And it was, it was, it totally worked. [00:51:26] Christina: It was like a total 180 from like the Golden Globes guy. It was like, Oh yeah, see, this is what happens when you actually hire a professional [00:51:32] Jeff: Did you see the New York Times piece analyzing the amount of time that the NFL put the camera on Taylor? Okay. I should have sent that, but I was like, I don’t need to send this. She knows. [00:51:41] Christina: I know, yeah, totally, um, What’s His Face, Cowheat, Colin Cowheat, like, did the same thing where he basically called, um, the, the NFL fans who are, like, mad at it, they basically, he basically called them incels, is basically what he did, and it was great, um, [00:51:54] Jeff: All right. So [00:51:55] Christina: he’s not wrong, he’s not wrong, but no, but, but, but, but Miley was great, she looked [00:52:00] great, I think I tweeted at some point, I was like, like, Liam Hemsworth, like, like, um, wellness check, because it, you know, Um, speaking of wellness checks, when, when Taylor won for best, um, uh, pop vocal, uh, which I was expecting her to win that album of the year was a surprise, but whatever. [00:52:20] Christina: When she announced that, like she announced that she, we all thought she was going to be like, oh, Reputation, Taylor’s version coming soon. And she’s like, no, I have a new album coming out on, on April 19th called the Tortured Poets Society. And, uh, and you can pre order it now. And then her store It took me half an hour to check out, which was insane to me. [00:52:43] Christina: Um, also, um, we all need to, or, it’s not Portrait, not Tortured Poets Society, uh, it’s Tortured Poets Department. Sorry, I’m a bad fan. Um, I felt really bad for Casey Musgraves, who had paid a lot of money to have a, uh, an ad for her new album, which is also coming out on April 19th. [00:52:59] Jeff: [00:53:00] Yeah. [00:53:00] Christina: before Taylor one, Casey, Casey, girl, you’re going to have to move that date. [00:53:05] Jeff: yeah, friend of the show, Kacey Musgraves. [00:53:07] Christina: Yeah, girl, you’re going to have to move that date because like, Universal is both of your labels and, and they are not going to put any money behind you at all. Like you’re going to have to move, you’re going to have to move. Um, but I felt bad for her for that. But [00:53:19] Jeff: you’re driving down the road and it’s completely gone into the sea, [00:53:23] Christina: but we got the track listing after, uh, like yesterday for, for the, the, um, the new Taylor album. And uh, This is, this is an album that I’m, I’m going to call it now. It’s going to be called Fuck Joe, um, uh, colon the album, uh, Joe meaning her ex boyfriend because shit, like she’s not even remotely fucking around. [00:53:43] Christina: Like there’s a, like it, it is basically like, yep, she, [00:53:49] Jeff: Does she go harder? Like, okay, she’s with Football Jones now. When she has had a terrible breakup, and I’m not trying to oversimplify this though, because she does a fucking great job of of putting [00:54:00] breakup shit in the song. So I’m not when she, but it traditionally, historically, if she is writing from a place of being in a relationship that is feeling good at that moment, is she even more vicious about the last one? [00:54:14] Christina: Well, yes and no. And here’s the thing. She made it very clear to say that she’d been sitting on this album for two years. [00:54:20] Jeff: Yeah. [00:54:21] Christina: So, which to me is like her saying like, this is not about the current boyfriend. This is, this is Fuck Joe the album. So [00:54:26] Jeff: The hard part about being the boyfriend. And look, it’s not about me. She doesn’t say football once. [00:54:31] Christina: She has songs called like, uh, uh, Who’s Afraid of Little Old Me, um, I Can Fix Him, um, no really, I Can. Um, but daddy, I love him. Um, I can do it with a broken heart. So long, London. Which, he’s from London, so she’s, that’s, again, like, this is like a, an album that’s very much like Go Fuck [00:54:50] Jeff: That’s funny, because I bet he was in the zone where he’s like, I think I dodged the bullet. [00:54:53] Christina: No, I bet he was, and, and that’s the thing. [00:54:55] Christina: This is where I honestly feel like she’s processed this enough, and she’s like, Oh no, I’m in a good place [00:55:00] now. Also, I literally have nothing left to prove, so fuck it. I’m going to destroy you. I’m, I’m literally going to destroy you. Like, you thought that the song that she released, uh, You’re Losing Me, um, as like a bonus track. [00:55:13] Christina: Like, it was like, oh, you thought that was going to be the worst? No, no, no. This is like, sorry, bro. Like, maybe you should have had, maybe you should have let her, maybe you should have showed up for her is all I know. [00:55:23] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Joe, [00:55:26] Christina: she wrote, she wrote, this, this is what the liner notes say. [00:55:28] Christina: And so I enter into evidence my tarnished coat of arms, my muses acquired like bruises, that’s a good line, my talismans and charms, the tick, tick, tick of love bombs, my veins of pitch black ink, all’s fair in love and poetry, sincerely, the chairman of the tortured poets department. [00:55:47] Jeff: to quote my people, oof ta. [00:55:50] Christina: like, he used to be in a group chat called, like, the Tortured Men’s Club. So, anyway, um, anyway, [00:56:00] but back to Miley. Miley was great. Uh, she looks great. Boy Genius did not perform, but they won three Grammys. That was [00:56:06] Jeff: And they’re on hiatus? Is that right? I thought I [00:56:08] Christina: yeah, yeah. Well, they, [00:56:09] Jeff: Just because they all do their own thing. [00:56:11] Christina: Yeah, I think they, they, like, committed a year to the project, and then, like, the year’s up. [00:56:15] Jeff: their fucking Grammy and we’re like, all right, cool, we’re done. [00:56:18] Christina: but they were adorable, [00:56:20] Jeff: were adorable. They were wearing white suits. They fucking ran to the stage. I mean, because they weren’t wearing dresses. Yeah. Like, I want to see more people run to the stage. And they were, they were [00:56:31] Christina: it was super cute. And it was super cute. And like, they were like, Phoebe had already won one like backstage, but, um, I guess when they were getting ready with SZA and they didn’t accept that one. But then, um, when they got their three, like, you could tell that they never They were not expecting, you know, like, best rock album, best rock, or not rock album, but like rock song, and like, alternative album, and I think, um, something else with rock, but like, good on them. [00:56:59] Jeff: [00:57:00] yeah, good job. And then Tracy Chapman, holy shit, [00:57:03] Christina: Holy shit. [00:57:04] Jeff: incredible, who doesn’t perform, right? [00:57:06] Christina: No, last time she performed on TV was, was for Letterman in 2015, like, for one of his last shows. [00:57:12] Jeff: So Fast Car is one of the most beautiful songs ever written, and, and like, it’s, it was unbelievable. I mean, it just, her, God, I wish she did still perform, but how cool that she doesn’t, but when she does, it’s like, just so you know, I’ve got this in here, I just keep it at home. [00:57:28] Christina: he was so cute with her, like, he was, he was like, he was singing, like, he was like, like, mouthing the [00:57:32] Jeff: was mouthing the words when it wasn’t his turn! [00:57:35] Christina: Yeah, which was adorable. And everybody in the audience was, like, into it, like, everybody, like, when the chorus was hitting, like, everybody, like, Oprah was having the time of her life, because Oprah was there. [00:57:46] Christina: And, uh, [00:57:47] Jeff: she’s always got she was a chair sitter. She was [00:57:49] Christina: Yeah, I mean, well, [00:57:50] Jeff: Seat filler. [00:57:51] Christina: Meryl Streep was also there because Meryl Streep’s, um, um, son in law is Mark Ronson. [00:57:55] Jeff: Oh, funny, I didn’t know that. Huh. [00:57:57] Christina: Yeah, um, and then of course, uh, Joni [00:58:00] Mitchell performed, [00:58:00] Jeff: Great. I haven’t seen that though. [00:58:03] Christina: um, it, it, I’ll find it for you. It’s, it’s a crier because she’s 80, and you know, like, nine years ago she had an aneurysm, and like, we all thought she was dead. [00:58:10] Christina: Dead. Like, genuinely. And I don’t know how she’d never performed at the Grammys before. Because that was insane to me. Like, that’s nuts. I’m like, in the 70s, why would you not have her up there [00:58:20] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:58:22] Christina: Um, so, so, you know, uh, Canada gave us good stuff with that. And then, um, Billy Joel performed. He was, he was good, actually. [00:58:32] Christina: But, but that was [00:58:33] Jeff: his, uh, with his drummer, Liberty DeVito. I’m just here to tell everybody, friend of the show, Liberty DeVito, they’re friends again. Great [00:58:41] Christina: Oh, and Annie Lennox, um, did a, um, a nice, uh, rendition of, uh, Nothing Compares to You, uh, [00:58:47] Jeff: Oh, nice. Nice. [00:58:50] Christina: Um, [00:58:50] Jeff: That’s amazing. [00:58:51] Christina: performances were really good, [00:58:52] Jeff: Yeah, why does it so now everything like you had said, like Phoebe, Phoebe versus one award backstage, which that’s pretty badass, by the way, [00:59:00] just like, I just, we’re hanging out just a minute, I just won an award over here by the catering table. But like, is the deal because I didn’t watch the show. [00:59:07] Jeff: It seems like everything I was seeing like Killer Mike’s acceptance tweets, it looks like it was in the middle of the ceremonies, which I guess it was just not televised. [00:59:14] Christina: That’s not televised, right? So they do [00:59:15] Jeff: Why? Why [00:59:16] Christina: be because they can’t fit all of them. Because it’s like a hundred awards. [00:59:20] Jeff: Yeah, no, it’s 100 words for sure. But like, both of those felt like ones that could totally be in the show. [00:59:26] Christina: you’re not wrong. And this is a contentious thing. So for instance, they, there’s a battle over the years with the Grammys, uh, the Accordion Academy about like, okay, the tele, because the telecast makes them all their money. [00:59:38] Christina: And, and so they need ratings. And to get the ratings, you need to have performances. But if you have performances, then that means you don’t have award time. And so they give out the bulk of the awards, um, at a ceremony a few hours beforehand. And like, that’s when Boy Genius got theirs. That’s when Killer Mike got his. [00:59:52] Jeff: And is the full crowd there [00:59:55] Christina: No, [00:59:55] Jeff: crypto. com arena? [00:59:57] Christina: I mean, you have, you have, it’s [01:00:00] probably more people are probably at that one than they are at the main event. [01:00:03] Jeff: Okay. Okay. [01:00:03] Christina: Because the main event is really like, this is the televised one. So that’s like album of the year, song of the year, record of the year, um, best new artist, you know, that sort of thing. [01:00:12] Christina: Um, and then they will pick like what songs they used to do. Like in the 90s, like when Alternative was getting bigger, like they would make like best rock album, best Alternative, that would be part of the main ceremony. That’s not anymore. Um, they, they, uh, will go back and forth. Like, SZA did have one of her, one of her awards was given to her on stage, and I think that they probably put that one in the main ceremony because they, she was, got the most nominations. [01:00:37] Christina: She did not win the most, but she got the most nominations, and I think they wanted to be able to like let her actually accept an award on stage, so that’s probably why they put that there. I, I don’t know. Um. But yeah, it’s a hard thing because like the show went long. It was like three and a half hours. [01:00:51] Christina: Like it went long. Um, like it’s supposed to end at 11. Like it ended at 11. 37 or something. Like it went long. Um, [01:00:58] Jeff: Not to put too fine a [01:01:00] point on it. [01:01:00] Christina: well, because I was watching three hours behind, but [01:01:03] Jeff: Yeah, [01:01:04] Christina: I was like, I would, [01:01:04] Jeff: must be nice in that case. [01:01:06] Christina: It is, and then they replay it immediately afterwards, and so I was just like, okay, wow, this, this went long as fuck, because, oh, part of that was that Jay Z got some, like, Dr. [01:01:15] Christina: Dre Lifetime Achievement Award, and then he just talked forever, [01:01:18] Jeff: Okay. Got [01:01:19] Christina: like, he just talked forever, and like, like, as a, as a, I don’t know, man, like, maybe, maybe write it down next time, I don’t know, but like, um, Beyonce did show up, though, like, like, they came in late, like, they weren’t there for the whole thing, but they came in, and she was there with Blue Ivy, and like, she had a cowboy [01:01:33] Jeff: come in late before I, I like that [01:01:35] Christina: Yeah, I like that too. I mean, they can. [01:01:37] Jeff: there when we get there. They got [01:01:40] Christina: Let’s be real. Like, Beyonce can show up any fucking time she wants, [01:01:44] Jeff: Who’s the seat filler for Beyonce? Do you have to appear at least a little bit, incredible and regal, or can you just be Sandy from North Carolina? [01:01:51] Christina: I mean, I don’t know. I guess it depends on where she’s seated. [01:01:54] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. That’s amazing. [01:01:57] Christina: but yeah, so the performances were really good and [01:02:00] like, okay, I will say this and then I’ll shut up about this because we’ve been talking too long about the Grammys, but I was accused of being a Taylor Swift anti on Threads, which was the most [01:02:11] Jeff: Wait, what’s a Taylor Swift anti? It’s [01:02:13] Christina: Meaning someone who’s, who, who, yes, [01:02:15] Jeff: Oh, okay. Why is it at the end? Why they bury the lead. [01:02:21] Christina: fan culture, I [01:02:22] Jeff: Okay, okay. Why were you that? Why were you that? What happened, [01:02:24] Christina: because, because all I said was, okay, I think we can all agree that she won the award, and I’m very happy she won the award, but it was like a cumulative thing, like it was kind of like a, we’re really sorry that ten years ago we gave Random Access Memories by Daft Punk, album of the [01:02:39] Jeff: Sorry we let Kanye up on stage that one time. [01:02:42] Christina: Well, that was the VMAs, [01:02:43] Jeff: Oh, those VMAs. Sorry. [01:02:44] Christina: that was the VMAs, but, but no, but it was like, to me, I was like, okay, well, this is clearly, cause like all award shows do this, like the Oscars do this to the Emmys as well. We’re like, you, you win the award and it’s not actually for that piece of art. It is either for your cumulative artistic achievement that year, [01:03:00] which this year, let’s No one has had more impact in the world than her, so fair. [01:03:07] Christina: Or, because like, hey Leo DiCaprio, we’re really sorry we didn’t give you Oscars all those other times, but you jumped inside a bear, so we’re gonna give it to you for the revenant, right? [01:03:17] Jeff: Yep, here’s a new young woman as a girlfriend. [01:03:20] Christina: right, right. So like, you know, sometimes the award that you win, it’s not for that particular piece of art. It’s like, we’re really sorry that we got it wrong all those times in the past. [01:03:29] Christina: And also you had like a really big year. So all I’m [01:03:32] Jeff: this logic, I should be getting my fucking Grammy soon. [01:03:35] Christina: totally you should. But, but like, I’m just saying like, Midnight’s Not the best album of the year. Like, not even close. Am I mad that she won her fourth album of the year? No. I think that, again, like, cumulatively, like, for everything else, like, that she, she, she saved the music industry. [01:03:52] Christina: Like, she sold more records than all the other, like, 20 people combined. Like, it’s, it’s, you know what I mean? Like, okay, give it [01:04:00] to her. I get it. The Aris Tour has changed economies. Like, I get it. Give it to her. [01:04:04] Jeff: I’m just kidding. [01:04:05] Christina: But, yes, same, but, like, don’t pretend that this is like the best album, and so I guess some Taylor Swift stan was like, oh, you know, like, was basically calling me an anti and was like, oh, you know, the, the meltdowns are starting already, and I’m like, I’m not melting down, I’m just saying clearly this was because Red lost ten years ago, and like, This is Payback, not, you know, I’m not like in any way diminishing anything. [01:04:29] Christina: And the person was like, oh, well, you could have just said that Red deserved a Grammy too. And I’m like, okay, but like, Midnight’s wasn’t the best album of 2023. Like, what do you want me to, you want me to lie? Like, I’m not going to. [01:04:41] Jeff: You’re not [01:04:42] Christina: it’s not even the top, [01:04:43] Jeff: I’m not gonna [01:04:43] Christina: even her, it’s, it’s not even one of her fifth, it’s, I think it’s probably like her seventh best album. [01:04:48] Christina: Like, [01:04:49] Jeff: Okay, I wanna say, I wanna say something I love about the term Taylor Swift Anti, which is that it seems like the community will not besmirch her name by putting another word before it. [01:05:00] Everything goes at the end. It’s like Taylor Swift the Lionhearted. It’s like Taylor Swift anti. So like, even if what’s, what we’re talking about is bad, we get the positive jolt, the dopamine hit of hearing your name first, before we get mad. [01:05:14] Christina: Before we get mad. Yeah, but but it was anyway, but that was a very funny thing to me I was like wait I just I just waited in line for 30 minutes to spend 76 with tax and shipping on this bitch on her new album like because I had to buy the CD the vinyl [01:05:28] Jeff: Friend of the show, this bitch. [01:05:30] Christina: Yeah completely. I was like, okay, so I I’m an anti just cuz I’m like, [01:05:36] Jeff: Yeah, [01:05:36] Christina: so she didn’t want it for this album where it it was clearly cumulative which Yeah, I, I, cause, you’re not, you’re not [01:05:43] Jeff: was white guilt. [01:05:44] Christina: that, here we go. [01:05:48] Brett: Can I title the episode Taylor Swift anti question mark? [01:05:52] Jeff: I thought it was going to be the one where Brett’s drunk. Um, no, that’s a good one. Uh, can I just say to people that if you, [01:06:00] if any of this piqued your interest, I love watching Grammy clips on TikTok. I mean, not as much as I like watching live streams of oil riggers. Last night, we were supposed to finish, we were supposed to finish, uh, uh, Lenny, whatever, the Lenny Bernstein, Bernstein movie, um, and, and I was enthralled watching a live stream of oil riggers and, and it was like, come on, we got to watch, we said, no, we got to watch this. [01:06:24] Jeff: Oh, fine. I’ll watch this. But I understood. More of what was happening in the oil riggers than I could of what Bradley Cooper was saying in his fantastic, uh, job of playing Leonard Bernstein. But man, I can’t hear a damn, I can’t understand a damn thing. I don’t even know what I’m talking about. It’s crazy. [01:06:42] Jeff: It’s good though. Do you guys watch that movie? Yeah. It’s good. It’s not great, [01:06:49] Christina: uh, haven’t seen it yet. [01:06:50] Jeff: Like, it’s irresistible in a way, but [01:06:54] Brett: I just watch a proposal and I would say the same thing. [01:06:59] Christina: Proposal’s [01:07:00] good. That’s a Ryan Reynolds and um, uh, um, Sandra Bullock. That’s a fucking great movie. Honestly, that’s a great rom com. [01:07:07] Brett: it was not great, but it was good. [01:07:08] Jeff: Yeah. I don’t even mean to say not great, but good, because I really, there’s so much I loved about this movie, but it is, and it’s all just like vignettes, but it’s not really, it’s not really telling you that it is. So you’re just like, what fucking house am I in now? It’s very confusing. But I could, he’s, he’s absolutely incredible to watch. [01:07:26] Jeff: I mean, it’s just, [01:07:27] Brett: of, after that Merlin episode, I become obsessed with House. [01:07:32] Jeff: I need to [01:07:33] Christina: Oh, such a good show. [01:07:35] Brett: I’ve been watching one to two episodes a night ever since that episode. And I. I’m obsessed with House now. It’s, it’s a really good show. [01:07:46] Christina: It is a really good show. [01:07:47] Brett: It’s really good writing. It’s really good writing, and it’s really good character development, and I cannot complain at all. [01:07:55] Brett: I love House. [01:07:57] Jeff: Well, maybe I’ll get [01:07:58] Brett: That’s, that’s, that’s [01:08:00] Drunk Brett’s addition to this whole conversation [01:08:03] Jeff: Have you guys walked house? [01:08:05] Brett: as he’s watching a 10 year old show. Have you guys seen the [01:08:10] Jeff: And I stole your wallet. I stole your wallet. [01:08:13] Christina: to feel really old? [01:08:14] Jeff: Yeah, always. I don’t need to, but yes. [01:08:17] Christina: House debuted in 2004. [01:08:19] Brett: Oh, Jesus, fuck. [01:08:21] Jeff: Wow. [01:08:22] Brett: Jesus, fuck. Okay, yeah. So, you see all this gray hair on my [01:08:27] Jeff: I don’t think anybody does. But I do. [01:08:30] Brett: Hey, you have it too. [01:08:32] Jeff: Oh, are you kidding me? I have a little Jesus Christ. [01:08:36] Christina: I, I, um, knock on wood very much, so, like, I have, I do not, like, I have a few, [01:08:42] Jeff: Got nothing? Hehehehehehe. [01:08:45] Christina: stray greys that I honestly started getting, like, ten years ago, but I, it’s, it’s small, like, and it’s one of the things where I, I, I can pluck them, and it’s, like, maybe one part of my head, and it’s, I don’t have anything else, and, um, I always ask my stylist every time I see him, like, how’s it [01:09:00] looking, how’s it going, because my mom went white, like, my mom went gray, and so she gets her hair dyed, like, like, she, she goes, like, every three [01:09:05] Jeff: went white early. [01:09:06] Brett: it’s, it’s gonna happen to you all at once. When you finally stop being, what, 29? [01:09:12] Christina: yeah. Well, my grandmother was [01:09:13] Brett: all at once, all at once, you’re just gonna go, [01:09:16] Jeff: Adele, every album would have the same name. [01:09:19] Christina: It would. It would always be 29. Um, no, but my grandmother was 90 when she died, and she still, like, she was, like, it was pretty dark. Like, it was, she helped, so I’m, I’m hoping that, like, I inherit from her, [01:09:33] Brett: I [01:09:34] Christina: not from my mom. [01:09:36] Brett: I hope for you. [01:09:37] Christina: I mean, uh, well, what, one person told me, they’re like, if you haven’t already gone, if it hasn’t already started now, they’re like, it’s not gonna happen. [01:09:43] Christina: So, [01:09:44] Brett: myself in the mirror today and I saw this gray and I was like, dude, [01:09:48] Jeff: Well, you’re rockin a proper Salt N Pepa right [01:09:51] Brett: You’re pulling it off. You’re, [01:09:52] Christina: you are pulling it off. [01:09:53] Brett: I, I [01:09:54] Christina: Well, you’re also a man. [01:09:55] Jeff: As I was gonna say, [01:09:56] Brett: enough. Fair enough. I am the age I am and I’m [01:10:00] actually, I’m proud to have lived long enough to have gray hair. Like that was not in the cards for me. [01:10:08] Brett: So I’m okay with it. [01:10:10] Christina: I think, I think that’s completely fair. [01:10:12] Jeff: Yeah, man, they call me Greybeard and Silverback. Um, awesome! Well, we did it. This is nice. We give the listeners one episode that’s not two hours long. Uh, we’ll be back with two [01:10:27] Brett: first episode, one hour, we did it. [01:10:30] Jeff: Yeah, [01:10:31] Christina: It was still incredibly ADHD, which I love about it. Like, if anything, it was even more ADHD than usual. Like, [01:10:36] Jeff: Yes. [01:10:37] Brett: and we did not even do a Mental Health Corner. [01:10:40] Jeff: Oh shit, I didn’t even realize that. I’d really like to see a transcript of this, uh, this episode that is only proper nouns. Because I feel like you can actually watch what happened to us by just the list of proper [01:10:53] Brett: I, I will send you, I will send you the transcript. I know you have the software to make that happen. [01:10:59] Jeff: I sure [01:11:00] do. Awesome. Well, yeah, I mean, that’s funny, you know, Mental Health Corner, but you know, let’s, uh, we should wrap it anyhow. [01:11:07] Christina: We’ll wrap it anyway. We’ll, we’ll start with Mental Health Corner properly [01:11:10] Jeff: Alright, y’all. Get some sleep? [01:11:13] Brett: Get some sleep. [01:11:15] Jeff: Yeah. [01:11:15] Christina: some sleep. [01:11:16] Jeff: Uh huh. Hey, everybody.