Overtired

If you were trying to make a show that targeted listeners sitting in the middle of a “mechanical keyboard lover,” “command line utility user,” and “TV Fanatic” Venn diagram, this episode would hit the bullseye. You’re welcome. Show Links nb youtube-dl octotree for Chrome/Edge octotree for Firefox Ted Lasso Liberty Ads Cellino and Barnes Bruised egos, gobs of money, and the bitter feud that took down Cellino & Barnes, New York’s absurdly ubiquitous accident law firm. Audm Lily (AT&T spokesperson) Raised by Wolves The Staircase THE-1 Keyboard Layout Keychron K2 Hot Swappable Wireless Mechanical Keyboard Keychron K2 PBT Retro Mac Keycap Set Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett [00:00:00]Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome back to overtired. Uh, I’m Christina and I’m here with Brett. How are you Brett? [00:00:06] Brett: [00:00:06] You’re you’re way better at intros than I am. I like, I start the intro and then I just blank because I’m used to doing the like systematic intro where it’s just me. And then I’m like, Oh, I have to incorporate another person into this. And then it comes out all awkward and weird. And we just keep it, like I could go back and rerecord that, but I feel like this show is all about. [00:00:29]Christina: [00:00:29] is I honestly, I think that people that are our loyal listeners, who’ve been listening to our, like, although we’ve actually been like on a very good schedule, uh, but in very consistent, but. Our listeners who have followed us through the last six years of, um, sporadic recordings. They, I feel like they would be bothered if it were too edited and too professional. [00:00:56] We have other podcasts for that. [00:00:58] Brett: [00:00:58] I’ll be honest. Like there are [00:01:00] times that we say things that are so wrong or so offensive that I do edit, like, and I’m sure neither of us goes back and listens to the shows. So you’ve probably never noticed the things that I’ve decided were not for public consumption. Um, But now that we’re recording, uh, this is Tuesday morning. [00:01:19] We’ll be publishing Wednesday at noon. So I don’t really have time anymore. So whatever happens here happens, [00:01:28] Christina: [00:01:28] shit. [00:01:28] Brett: [00:01:28] but we are, we are recording in the morning because we decided maybe we’re actually morning people and, uh, and let’s see what happens. [00:01:36] Christina: [00:01:36] Yeah, no, I mean, here’s what I’m discovering. So we were recording these on Saturdays and that was going okay. It was going better than I thought it would just be totally honest. I think I only played out like twice and, uh, and we had to reschedule and I sleep most weekends. So. That was actually pretty good, but what I found when we’ve had to record earlier for our schedules, for whatever purposes, [00:02:00] if I have to wake up at five 30 and I hate waking up early, uh, but if I wake up, you know, around five 30, six o’clock so that I can be ready to record this. [00:02:07] Cause we record this seven, my time I am, I come to the show, I’m like full of ideas. I’m ready to go. My sweets on Twitter are really good. Like when I wake up, I’m like, I should be, I should be a morning person, but I’m not a morning person yet. It’s so much more beneficial. I get so much out of it when I actually wake up early. [00:02:28] But yeah, no. [00:02:31]Brett: [00:02:31] Aye. Aye. I don’t know, I like to stay up all night, but it happens more often when I’m manic and, uh, but the hours between like, uh, maybe two and five are definitely my most productive. If I get up, if I sleep well and then get up at, say four 30 or five, I, I need like two hours to actually, um, [00:03:00] be social. [00:03:01] Like, I’m good. If I get right to work, I can send tweets and everything. But if you try to talk to me until I’ve had like an hour, just kind of sit with the news or whatever I decide to occupy my morning with, um, I’m not, uh, I’m not on the ball. It takes me like 30 seconds to respond to anybody who actually says words to me in the morning. [00:03:24]Christina: [00:03:24] yeah, I’m kind of the same way. And so that’s, I think why, like, if I can wake up. I kind of get my bearings and tweet about video game nostalgia and other bullshit and kind of, you know, catch up on, on the news and whatever terrible things are happening to the world, then it’s like, I’m, I’m better. And I’m like, okay, I’m, I’m ready to go. [00:03:46] But I’m also like you, other than the manic part. But I really do love staying up late. Like that’s kind of the Genesis of this show to be totally honest, right? Like it’s over tired. That’s sort of our brand, but [00:04:00] I am recognizing, and I’ve, I’ve noticed this before, but it’s really just becoming clear to me that I think I’d be more productive. [00:04:06] I’d be healthier. I’d probably be happier if I was able to shift my body clock so that I actually was up early every day, but in a perfect world, I would, you know, probably. Sleep from, I don’t know, 6:00 AM to 11 or 12, you know, [00:04:26] Brett: [00:04:26] I, uh, [00:04:28] Christina: [00:04:28] six to one. I don’t know. [00:04:29] Brett: [00:04:29] my, like, because I don’t have a day job and haven’t for years, um, I kind of, even when I did, I was a remote worker and had a bit of a flexible schedule. Um, I’ve always just let my body decide when to sleep. And my sleep schedule shifts very regularly right now. If left to my own devices, I sleep until like eight in the morning, which is unheard of for me in my life. [00:04:56] Usually my body clock gets me up around six [00:05:00] and something, something shifted now. I’m, I’m actually sleeping, uh, like from 9:00 PM till 8:00 AM. So I’m getting like 11 hours of sleep. [00:05:10] Christina: [00:05:10] Yeah, I [00:05:11] Brett: [00:05:11] apparently I need. [00:05:13]Christina: [00:05:13] either you need it or it becomes too much. I don’t know. Like we were talking last week about how we all have vitamin D deficiencies and I feel like that’s probably part of it. And I also feel like the lack of social interaction and just being around people in general, as well as just like the fear and trauma happening has impacted all of us. [00:05:33] Cause I also find myself sleeping more, which is, I think at first it was a good thing. And then I’m like, Oh no, this actually isn’t. I don’t, I don’t need this. So [00:05:42] Brett: [00:05:42] Yeah, I am definitely like if I sleep 11 hours, then I’m tired all day. [00:05:48] Christina: [00:05:48] exactly. That’s the thing, like, there’s like a, there’s like a balance. It’s kind of like, I know you don’t drink anymore. I don’t know if you remember this. Cause it’s been a really long time since you drank, but there’s [00:05:57] Brett: [00:05:57] It’s been a year. Let’s be honest. It’s been a [00:06:00] year. [00:06:00] Christina: [00:06:00] Okay. So. And I don’t even know, we might’ve talked about this on the pod before, but there’s this thing where you get really drunk and you kind of pass out from exhaustion and then you wake up like three hours later because you got to go to work or you got to go to class or you have to give a presentation in a foreign country, whatever the case may be, not speaking from experience of any of these things she says, um, and you wake up and you just feel like completely like. [00:06:30] Those three hours were like hardcore sleep. You’re like, man, as long as I’m still not drunk when I wake up, which sometimes is the case, I feel like I can take on the world, you [00:06:41] Brett: [00:06:41] Yeah, well, my alcohol metabolizes to sugar as you, uh, as you sober up. So you get this, um, uh, very, uh, sugar, sugar driven awakeness, which happens even if you don’t have it, even if you don’t have to get up. If you pass out drunk, you will usually wake [00:07:00] up three to four hours later, uh, feeling quite aware, uh, sometimes with a headache, but often, often after just three to four hours, you’re still a little bit drunk too. [00:07:10] You still have alcohol in your, in your system. So it, it curves the immediate withdrawal symptoms that you get after a heavy night of drinking. [00:07:19]Christina: [00:07:19] Makes sense. [00:07:20] Brett: [00:07:20] See if, if you study alcoholism long enough, You get really good at it. So we promised that we promised to talk about this crazy command line utility called N B, [00:07:33] Christina: [00:07:33] yes. [00:07:34] Brett: [00:07:34] which I am pretty sure it stands for like no to Ben a, the, like when in, uh, like news articles or our, uh, academic articles, they put NB and then a note, it means like note, well, But they don’t actually say that anywhere on the page. [00:07:54] So I’m just making an assumption there. [00:07:56] Christina: [00:07:56] Yeah, I have no idea. I, I found this, I think that I [00:08:00] saw it on, on hacker news to be totally candid. And which is where I find some cool projects, to be honest. Like I, the, the, the site is actually really, really good as a repository for that, uh, comments, whatever I got into a whole thing yesterday with some people because okay. [00:08:16] You know, um, YouTube, um, dash DL. Utility. Okay, well, get up, received a DMCA, take down. [00:08:23] Brett: [00:08:23] Kind of, he was a DMC on the surface, but yes. [00:08:27] Christina: [00:08:27] yes. I mean, it is, it was about it wasn’t maybe issued correctly or whatever, but, but the, the, the, the TLDR for, you know, listeners who don’t want to get into the nitty gritty of how that whole thing happened was that the repository has been taken down, uh, down, at least for the time being. [00:08:44] And, um, and frankly, like I love the project, but I was also kind of like you idiots, you, you put the links in the stuff in the test file and I realized you needed this to be there, but could you not have stored the test file [00:09:00] someplace else? Like seriously, like this, this, this just cause honestly this does ruin right? [00:09:05] Uh, love the arguments for all the reasons why it could be used for non-infringement purposes. Uh, which there are many, however, as I said, like on hacker news, I was like, okay. I get that there not infringing use cases. We can all do that. It’s a really important tool having said all that, it seems really disingenuous to me for everybody to be claiming, Oh, I’ve only used this to download things that I already own, or that are in the public domain or that are, you know, um, you know, creative commons license. [00:09:34] And I’m like, okay, you’re fucking liars. No, we all use this to infringe. On copyright, we might not be distributed in it. W I might personally think that the laws around that stuff are completely bogus and messed up. I might think the terms of service are complete bullshit, but I know what I’m doing and I’m not distributing it, but I’m like I’m using this to download content that in many cases, explicitly is not meant for me to [00:10:00] download. [00:10:00] In many cases is not owned by the uploader. And in many cases, like would not, uh, you know, the, the creator wouldn’t be comfortable making available to download and that the service like doesn’t allow you to download easily if they wanted you to do it, they would. So I just made this comment being like, can we all just protect, stop, pretending, like we don’t use this program called YouTube DL to download YouTube videos. [00:10:27] Like, can we just like. Get rid of that. And of course, everybody in the comments is like, well, no, actually I do only use it for these purposes. And I live in this country. So I’m not beholding to these rules. I’m like, actually you kind of are like that, that doesn’t really mean that you’re still not infringing, just because you live in Russia or wherever. [00:10:44] Like it’s still a, uh, a us company that it’s, that the stuff is being hosted on. And you’re accessing Khan from a us website. So like, I’m not saying like, nobody’s going to get arrested for any of this anyway, like at most you’d be fine and you’ll be fine for [00:11:00] distribution. Uh, not for, for simply downloading. [00:11:02] They’re not going to go after anybody. They just want to, you know, try to make this harder to get off the internet. But anyway, that’s my hacker news. Tangent, the comments are terrible, but I find really good projects. So in B [00:11:13] Brett: [00:11:13] as an aside, as an aside to that tangent as a tangent on that tangent, there’s an app and it’s in set up called Downey. Yeah. Downy is quite good for, uh, we’ll say, gathering video content, um, from just about any. [00:11:31] Christina: [00:11:31] it, it it’s, it’s, it’s a really good Mac GUI on top of YouTube. DL is basically what it is. Um, and there, there are a couple of other like programs that try to do that. Downey is probably the best that I’ve seen. And I don’t know if he exclusively uses YouTube DL. I think he does. Um, or if he. Add his own stuff to it, but it’s a really, really good app. [00:11:49] What I like about that one too, is that it has like a, uh, uh, a web browser kind of built in if you need to use, like, do like a Salinium style kind of [00:12:00] like scraping thing for different sites. Yeah. [00:12:02] Brett: [00:12:02] Yeah. Do you think the, you think the YouTube DL down will affect Downey? [00:12:07] Christina: [00:12:07] Um, yes. Uh, if, if they, if updates. Okay. It will in the insofar, as it depends on if the YouTube DL dev team like the contributors, if they can find another place to either collaborate privately or on a service that is not hosted in the United States, like some people have mentioned get tea, which I believe is Chinese and, um, uh, some other, uh, services then as long as the binary can be. [00:12:37] You know, like found it. I think Downey would be fine. The issue is, is the reason that YouTube is updated frequently is that YouTube changes stuff works and that’s what they have to adjust for. So if there are no updates to YouTube DL, then yeah, I do think Downey will be impacted unless Sam, I believe that’s the guy’s name, unless he has been doing his own work and contributions and [00:13:00] understands the intricacies enough that he could patch. [00:13:02]I kind of doubt that. Um, but I, I don’t know my thought though, is that this is going to be one of those situations. Like we’ve seen with other, you know, uh, tools that are designed for valid reasons. And frankly, even if it’s invalid, I’m still in favor of it where it’s going to be a game of whack-a-mole to try to get it off the internet. [00:13:24] But as long as the people who are the core contributors, aren’t scared off of contributing. I, I, this isn’t, I mean, get is, is just, you know, by, by nature, it’s, it’s, um, you know, de-centralized and distributed and so it can move to someplace else. Like they’ve already updated their website to have the binaries be directly available to download. [00:13:45] Um, but obviously any of the issues and the documentation and all that stuff has gone. But, um, yeah, I, and, and who knows maybe, maybe they’ll fight the, the, the take-down notice. I’m not really sure, but. [00:13:58] Brett: [00:13:58] Well, based on, uh, [00:14:00] some of the lawyer and, and paralegal input on, on, uh, Twitter. I think they have a case for, uh, making an appeal to this, but. [00:14:11] Christina: [00:14:11] I think, I think they do my fear though. Genuinely is it? It’s the fact that they had the infringing URLs in the test suite. Like that’s the thing that’s going to be. Almost impossible to overcome. And that is a thing that has successfully gotten like sites and companies and other stuff shut down before, because it shows any sort of lack of faith. [00:14:34] Like you could make these kinds of tenuous kind of arguments. Otherwise when it’s in the test file, that’s. In that repo, that’s really tough. Uh, that said even if GitHub doesn’t host it and doesn’t want to be like, look, we don’t want to take on this liability. We don’t care. And, and get lab would be the same way. [00:14:51] And like, get lab is basically owned by Google. I, I love it. People try to pretend like they’re independent. It’s like, uh, no. Google [00:15:00] gave them a shitload of money and host all their infrastructure. Uh, so that hardly seems like Google would, would want, you know, to host this thing, that circumvents, um, one of their, their products. [00:15:14] Uh, but, but get lab also has a as basically the identical DMC, uh, process as GitHub, but they could self hosted on either a self hosted get, um, get lab instance or. Another thing somewhere. Um, and again, like as long as the core developers, aren’t afraid of people going after them. And I don’t actually think there’d be anything that they could be charged with or whatever. [00:15:39] Then I think it’s just a game of whack-a-mole, but we will wait and see, but sorry, that was, that was a [00:15:46] Brett: [00:15:46] Yeah, no, I, I extended it. That was partly my fault. [00:15:50]Christina: [00:15:50] but, but, but, uh, uh, although I’m glad we talked about this because I did actually want to mention the YouTube DL thing. Um, yeah. So in B, when I saw this and [00:16:00] I was like, Holy shit, did Brett make this? [00:16:05] Because it looked so much like something that you would make. [00:16:10] Brett: [00:16:10] Here’s here’s the summary and B as a command line, note-taking bookmarking, archiving, and knowledge based application with plain text data storage encryption. Filtering and search, get back versioning and sinking pan doc back conversion global and local notebooks. Excuse me, customizable color themes and sensibility through plugins and more all in a single portable user-friendly script. [00:16:34] And as I mentioned previously, the whole thing’s a bash script, which is insane to me. [00:16:39] Christina: [00:16:39] amazing. It’s so good. Like it’s. It’s it’s, it’s really, really nice. And it has like, you know, command line support for visual studio code and VIM and Emacs and, and text made and Mac down and a bunch of other things. Um, [00:16:54] Brett: [00:16:54] What, and it, it hooks a bunch of well-known command line utilities, uh, [00:17:00] uh, to, to do what it does, but it brings them together in a way that actually makes. A really complete, uh, kind of note-taking and bookmarking system. And it can work with, you can put like MP3 files into your notebook and it will use an appropriate player to preview and, uh, and, and search them by file name and everything. [00:17:25] So it’s really, it’s Evernote for the command line. [00:17:29] Christina: [00:17:29] Yeah, exactly. But it kind of made me think about, and I’ve never used org mode. I have to be totally honest here, but I’ve seen like videos and, and we’ve talked before. Like I’ve always been intrigued by it, but I’ve never used it, but it kind of looks like org mode. If it was designed by someone who had good design and since [00:17:45]Brett: [00:17:45] Yeah. Yeah. [00:17:48] Christina: [00:17:48] You know, cause that’s the thing it’s, it’s command line, but it’s elegant. [00:17:52] Like it’s really well done, which is rare. And that’s why I thought of you. Cause I was like, this is the sort of shit that you do. Like you make really [00:18:00] elegant solutions, whether they’re command line or Apple script or, you know, gooey or like whatever, like you’re really thoughtful about the stuff that you build. [00:18:07]Brett: [00:18:07] And with the help of Penn doc, it can, you can export your, uh, uh, markdown notes as word documents. And like the get versioning is awesome. Like every time you add a note, it’s automatically versioning and, and, uh, keeping repos and your notebooks can be in different locations. So you can sync via Dropbox or whatever you want. [00:18:32] It’s nuts though. The read me is like a hundred pages long. It’s pretty well written. [00:18:39] Christina: [00:18:39] It is really well written. Actually. It’s very well written, like, and I think that it’s, I mean, it’s, you know, one person, uh, primarily from what I can tell, and I don’t know, I just, I just saw this and I was just like really, really impressed. I was like, You know what, like, well done, this is awesome. [00:18:56] There there’s like, you know, plugin support for, for themes and for [00:19:00] some other, you know, um, stuff like, I don’t know, I was excited to show this to you and I’m really glad that you’ve played with it. [00:19:08]Brett: [00:19:08] Do you want to aside recommendation, [00:19:11] Christina: [00:19:11] I do [00:19:12] Brett: [00:19:12] um, have you seen Octa tree, the plugin for Chrome and Firefox? [00:19:18]Christina: [00:19:18] know. [00:19:19] Brett: [00:19:19] It gives you a sidebar on any good hub repo that gives you, uh, like tree based navigation. So you can jump between any file in any subdirectory. [00:19:29] Christina: [00:19:29] Oh, I am adding this to edge right now. Nice. [00:19:35] Brett: [00:19:35] Oh yeah. It’ll work on edge too. Um, yeah, it is super handy if you’re exploring a GitHub repo and just want to jump from plugin slash Rubo cop YML to. To your test suite or whatever? Um, yeah, this, Oh my God. This, uh, NB has, uh, like 50 test suites in it. [00:19:58] Christina: [00:19:58] Yeah, no, I’m looking at this now. I just [00:20:00] installed that extension. That’s crazy. And also like looking at like how big, like the, the gym file is even just for, for the, for the documentation. [00:20:09] Brett: [00:20:09] Okay. [00:20:09] Christina: [00:20:09] Like it’s actually like it’s, it’s, uh, that’s interesting. Um, that’s cool. [00:20:15]Brett: [00:20:15] Yeah, the optional dependencies. [00:20:17] Christina: [00:20:17] Oh my God, that the tests. [00:20:19]Brett: [00:20:19] But the recommended dependencies are pretty short bat pan dock RG, which is rip grip, a TIG, which is, uh, a good extension. And w 3m. And then there’s a whole list of like also supported ones, but it’s actually a pretty considering everything it does. It’s a pretty small dependency list and it actually works if they’re not really dependencies their recommended, uh, dependencies let’s see required, dependencies are just bash and get an, a text editor. [00:20:54]Christina: [00:20:54] I love it so much. Like well done too. I think that the main person does is his name [00:21:00] is William melody and a big fan William like nice, nice work. Um, yeah. [00:21:08] Brett: [00:21:08] Yeah, I guess, I guess that’s enough. Um, uh, raving about it. Anyone who has developed a sudden curiosity or to whom this would be of interest. Uh, check the show notes for a link, uh, to the get hub repo for this it’s, uh, it’s worth checking. Even if you want to use an amazing app like NV ultra for your notes, uh, this is still absolutely worth seeing, uh, worth, worth being in all over. [00:21:39] Christina: [00:21:39] and, and I mean, it can conceivably, you could set like NV ultra to be like the note app that you would use, like as your text editor in place of the other ones they have. Right. [00:21:49] Brett: [00:21:49] Um, yes, it would take a little work because envy ultra doesn’t accept. It’s not a text editor. Uh, it, it opens [00:22:00] folders. [00:22:01] Christina: [00:22:01] okay. [00:22:01] Brett: [00:22:01] And then at files within folders. So you could have a notebook where NBA ultra was pointed at the same folder, and you could use it to edit your notes, but you can’t, uh, there’s no command line like NBA ultra this file. [00:22:15] It opens folders [00:22:17] Christina: [00:22:17] he’s opening a folder and then you’re creating the file from there. So you can’t just like create a file [00:22:21] Brett: [00:22:21] that that said it does have a URL handler that you can invoke on, uh, directly on files. Within any given notebook. So you could write a CLI to incorporate it. In fact, now that we’ve said this, I probably will. [00:22:40] Christina: [00:22:40] Yeah. Okay. [00:22:42] Brett: [00:22:42] So we talked last week about, uh, a charming little show called Ted lasso, [00:22:49] Christina: [00:22:49] We did. [00:22:50] Brett: [00:22:50] and I believe you’ve finally, finally caught up with the rest of the world and finished the series. [00:22:57] Christina: [00:22:57] I have, and in fairness to me, because we [00:23:00] recorded last week’s episode, like four or five days, like before, like went out or whatever. So it was one of those things where I had some, some other time anyway, I watched and I think it was actually two episodes. We talked about it. I watched the first episode. I really liked it. [00:23:13] Binge watched the whole thing. Right. You could not have been more correct. Best show on TV. I think I even tweeted like that. It was like the only good thing to happen in 2020 best show of the year. Wow. Like I, uh, I like watched it a second time. Like it, it feels that good place hole in my heart. [00:23:37]Brett: [00:23:37] Yeah. So. Um, the overall, uh, the overall plot, I, I feel like it left a huge opening for a season two, which I’m really hoping for. Uh, I don’t know. [00:23:51] Christina: [00:23:51] it. They’ve already [00:23:52] Brett: [00:23:52] Sure. But I’m worried about production, uh, unless you, unless TV shows start creating [00:24:00] a sports league style bubbles, uh, production’s going to be pretty slow. [00:24:05] There’s a show. There are a couple of shows now that are like zoom based shows. Um, there’s one called staging that did not hook me after the first couple episodes, but there’s another one and I’m forgetting the name of it and I’m forgetting what network it was on. I’ll find it later, but it was basically, uh, a soap, not a soap, like a sitcom, I guess. [00:24:30] Where all of the characters are connecting over zoom and it’s kind of, they’re like quarantine life in quarantine, which is appropriate. Like we can all relate to that right now. Um, [00:24:42] Christina: [00:24:42] didn’t. Totally can. It’s just, I don’t know. It’s like, that was a fun episode of modern family when they did that whole thing on, you know, FaceTime and it was fun. I think that when they did do a zoom thing of, of, um, you know, Blackish or whatever like that, it, you know, that’s like fun as a one-off. [00:24:57] I feel like it is hard to [00:25:00] carry that as a concert, do a whole show because part of the point of television is that you have multiple angles. And, you know what I mean? Like, even if you’re doing just the typical, sit-com where you have like three swing sets and four cameras, you know, you still can cut between those shots. [00:25:18] So [00:25:18] Brett: [00:25:18] And I don’t know about everyone else, but while I can heavily relate. To life happening over zoom. I really wandering to escape from life happening over zoom. I w I want to see life as normal. [00:25:32] Christina: [00:25:32] I was going to say, that’s the secondary thing, right? Is that like, it was fun at first. Maybe not fun, but you’re like, Oh yeah, it’s just like us. And now I’m like, yeah, I don’t want to be reminded of this reality anymore. So yeah. I mean, that’s a good point. [00:25:44] They have renewed Ted lasso. I have a feeling that it’s been successful enough and that, um, as long as, I mean, what are people going to do? Like. I get it, as long as they’re paying out their contracts and this doesn’t, if this isn’t go on like [00:26:00] indefinitely, I don’t feel like it should be at risk, especially since they film in a country that well, not doing super great is doing better than we are in the United States. [00:26:11] So that’s at least, you know, kind of a heads-up. I think the other thing is I feel like they held it back because the show clearly was filmed before the iPhone. Um, 10 S max, it even came out because, because of the phones they were using, they were not using like the latest phones. So I like the iPhone 11. [00:26:33] They weren’t using those. So I feel like, so it was filmed sometime in 2019, but before the new phones came out, so. I felt it felt to me like maybe they decided to hold it back, knowing that, okay. It might be another year before we can release more episodes. So I mean, if that’s the case, like, you know, they released it in August, 2020, if they’re able to get back in production before August of [00:27:00] 2021. [00:27:01]Then that would, that would align with what they want to do. But yeah, no, I, I, I know we’d talked about it before, but I just, I watched the whole thing. I watched it again. It’s a really, really good show. And one of the, I read some stuff about it and it was really interesting. No, because it was based on these, these NBC commercials, which we talked about and. [00:27:26] There’s no reason why the show should have worked and should be as good as it was. Cause like, you know, I read something that compared they’re like talking about how there was a sitcom and it’s true. It was called caveman based on those, those Geico caveman ads, like so easy, a caveman could do it like ABC, actually, I believe it was ABC. [00:27:44] Maybe it was Fox, you know? Commissioned a sitcom. They only aired two episodes. I think it was terrible. And it was like, why would you, you know, because you’re like, why would you make a TV show based on an ad? Like, why would you do that? And, [00:28:00] and Ted lasso is so easily could have been, that is so easily could have been like, okay, there’s kind of one-off joke thing. [00:28:06] And just, there’s no way that this can be sustainable. Right. But it pivoted, it, it like went to the left when you were expecting it to go in another way, by making the character really earnest and good and making the characters really complex in ways that you didn’t expect. And I don’t know, it’s one of the few bright spots that, uh, that I think has happened this year. [00:28:31] And so I thank you for introducing me to it. And, uh, for any of the listeners who haven’t seen it. It’s definitely worth it. I mean, I would spend the $5 just for a month of Apple TV, plus just to binge it, uh, if you can’t find it other ways, but I mean, to me, it’s like shows like that. Like if Apple TV plus can continue to have enough shows like that in the morning show and some other things, I think that they like will [00:29:00] be able to make the case that it’s worth what they’re charging for it. [00:29:03]Brett: [00:29:03] Well, and that was our new segment. Uh Christina’s must watch TV. Do you do, you know, do, Oh, first of all, uh, my filler TV show for the last week has been Frazier. Like the w the one that I watched when I just need a half hour show and then off to bed, Frasier has held up surprisingly well, like, like for a while I was trying how I met your mother. [00:29:28] That show did not hold up. [00:29:30] Christina: [00:29:30] we were talking about that. It is problematic. It [00:29:33] Brett: [00:29:33] altogether, too much rape in that show. Um, but, but Frazier it’s, as funny as it ever was, I’m still laughing out loud and, uh, it’s, it’s a little bit hilarious to see all the in the coffee house, all the nineties, like grunge aesthetic, but no, it’s still, it’s still stupid, funny, but. [00:29:54] Do you know what the most effective, this is? Personal opinion. The most effective [00:30:00] ad campaign on TV right now is [00:30:02]Christina: [00:30:02] uh, no [00:30:04]Brett: [00:30:04] mutual. They they’re they’re stupid ads like they’re stupid ads. Yes. But you get this song stuck in your head. So you remember you remember this stupid ad? Uh, that they’re, they’re funny. [00:30:18] I’m not gonna lie. I, I, they crack me up a little bit. But, uh, but then they make you shake your head because you laughed at something so dumb, but then the jingle is perfect. Like the most addictive jingle since like state farm. Um, [00:30:35] Christina: [00:30:35] ha ha. Well, okay. Have you ever heard the Seleno and Barnes a jingle? [00:30:40] Brett: [00:30:40] have not. [00:30:42] Christina: [00:30:42] Okay. I guess it’s just like a, a tri-state area thing, but there are these lawyers, um, SNL even did it. They they’ve, uh, since their partnership broke up and actually one of the guys just died, like in a plane crash, I was really sad, but they had this, this as Lino and Barnes injury attorneys, [00:31:00] 108, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight. And, and, but they like run those ads in New York, like all the time. And so, but it’s, but it’s, it’s, it’s just kinda like the Liberty thing, like you’re exactly right. It’s it’s like, or the state farm ads, you know, like a good neighbor state farm, like it’s just one of those jingles that we’ll never, uh, get out of your head. [00:31:19] And like the fact that they, like, you know, Seleno and Barnes in Jovia tourneys 188, eight, eight, eight, eight. And it’s just like, [00:31:28] Brett: [00:31:28] Well, first of all, they got the, they got the perfect phone number. [00:31:31] Christina: [00:31:31] Oh, yeah, no, they paid, I think, cause they eventually got one eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight. And they spent like, I spent like a couple million dollars on it. [00:31:39] Brett: [00:31:39] Your ad campaign could be like, just dial eight. [00:31:42] Christina: [00:31:42] basically I think that’s what they were really kind of wanting to do. Um, I’m going to have a link, uh, we’ll put in the show notes that New York magazine wrote this incredible story about. The breakup of, um, the new York’s, uh, it’s called, um, injured, bruised egos, gobs of money, and the [00:32:00] bitter feud that took down Seleno and Barnes new York’s absurdly ubiquitous accident law firm. [00:32:05] And this was written like, I don’t know, a week or two before. Uh, one of the guys died in, uh, in, in, uh, a plane crash that he was like piloting, which is really sad. Um, but because when they announced that they were breaking up, like, New York people. Like we freaked out because we were like, Oh my God, how Selena and Barnes can’t break. [00:32:26] It was, it was like when, uh, um, you know, um, uh Hoefler and, and freer Jones broke up. It was like one of those types of moments. And, um, anyway, but the article. In New York mag, it’s fantastic. Uh, highly recommended for anybody to read. Also I will once again, give the shout out to my favorite service that I have no affiliation with. [00:32:46] Well, I wish I did called autumn, which the New York times now owns, but, uh, I was a subscriber of long before that, which does long form. And now some shorter form, like, like news articles and from magazines and [00:33:00] newspapers read by professional narrators. So it’s, uh, like you have the best. Like audio book readers, reading the articles and they read the, um, this particular piece and it’s like an hour long. [00:33:13] Listen. It’s really good. [00:33:15] Brett: [00:33:15] All right. [00:33:15] Christina: [00:33:15] Um, so [00:33:17]Brett: [00:33:17] Awesome. Um, yeah, we should have a segment on our favorite commercials because I feel like when our least favorite I’m so sick of progressive ads. [00:33:26] Christina: [00:33:26] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, okay. Here’s the thing though, like, I cause I’ve noticed this over the years, like the insurance industry is kind of what keeps is like sort of what [00:33:36] Brett: [00:33:36] Totally, totally. Yep. [00:33:38] Christina: [00:33:38] Like, like, like, cause we were talking about [00:33:40] Brett: [00:33:40] Everything we’ve mentioned and farmer’s insurance and progress it. Yeah, [00:33:44] Christina: [00:33:44] We are farmers. Don’t also agree. Shingle, [00:33:47] Brett: [00:33:47] it is. It is. But it’s got one too many debt does for me to ever really remember it. [00:33:54]Christina: [00:33:54] yeah, you’re right. But, but it’s still, we are farmers. Yeah. But, but like that’s good. Uh, what [00:34:00] was the, what was the one that had, uh, that had ma that had mayhem? Um, [00:34:05] Brett: [00:34:05] who was that? [00:34:06] Christina: [00:34:06] that’s Ryan, um, uh, [00:34:08] Brett: [00:34:08] I love that actor. [00:34:10] Christina: [00:34:10] Yeah. Yeah. Meet you. Uh, Dean winter, Dean winter is his name [00:34:13] Brett: [00:34:13] Yeah. I don’t remember which, but it was again insurance [00:34:17] Christina: [00:34:17] Yeah. Uh, yeah, Dean winter mayhem. I’m [00:34:20] Brett: [00:34:20] and then Aflac. [00:34:22] Christina: [00:34:22] yeah, Aflac, the duck, um, Allstate was, [00:34:26] Brett: [00:34:26] Yeah. Yeah. And what’s in your wallet. Like that was, that was a great campaign. Anyway. [00:34:33] Christina: [00:34:33] yeah. It is. It is, it is interesting, right? Like, Oh, in flow, we can’t, we can’t like talk about these things without like, [00:34:40] Brett: [00:34:40] Has run her course. She was amazing. She was possibly the most iconic [00:34:46] Christina: [00:34:46] a great, she has totally run her, her course. I could not agree with you more, but I do still have to give her a shout out because like she gave us many, many years of good ads, like way more ads than, than she ever should have. [00:35:00] To be totally honest, like at this point we’re, we’re like 15 years in like, okay. She’s, it’s, it’s it’s bad, but it was very good for way longer than it [00:35:11] Brett: [00:35:11] Well, it’s funny that a lot, these campaigns are at a point where they’re almost becoming meadow. Like they are referencing. How old their characters are the Aflac duck, the Geico gecko, uh, flow, uh, the what’s in your wallet guy. Like they’re making references to their own, uh, kind of ubiquity in their commercials now. [00:35:35] And very few of them are really like progressive is trying to expand their cast, but it’s not, they’re not coming up with another flow. It’s not happening yet. [00:35:48] Christina: [00:35:48] Yeah, no, I, I think that’s interesting and I wonder why. Well, [00:35:52] Brett: [00:35:52] I do like this, go ahead. Sorry. [00:35:54] Christina: [00:35:54] no going, [00:35:55] Brett: [00:35:55] I was going to say, I do like the new at and T girl. [00:35:58] Christina: [00:35:58] I like the new at and T [00:36:00] girl as well. She’s really good. She’s been like the first person in a long time. That’s been a thing. Although the way that she gets harassed online is disturbing. Uh, she, she’s not online. To be clear, which is incredibly smart of her. Like stay off the internet at and T girl, like do not go online, but no, but I like her quite a bit. [00:36:19] No, but I was thinking like, why are people not doing this? And I have to think is the same reason why we keep seeing the same franchises rebooted over and over again. And we don’t really see much original content. I think that, uh, creatives are just really risk averse and I can understand it. To some degree, although I don’t agree with it, like with movies and television, especially as the economics of those things become like, the pressure becomes so high that you’re like, okay, I have to have this return. [00:36:48] I have to do this and that. So just go with the known quantity rather than trying something new that could fail. But with advertisements, you would think that that would give you some [00:37:00] slight. Amount of, of more like leeway to at least experiment. But I guess not, I guess they’re going, they’re dealing with the same kind of struggles. [00:37:07] And so you just see that the same campaigns continuing on and on, but I would like to see new blood, you know, happening. Cause we know we have good creative people out there. Like people are doing funny shit all the time, [00:37:21] Brett: [00:37:21] this is what I love about the emo and the Liberty ads is it is it’s a brand new, fresh campaign. Granted, they’re not as old as well. I don’t know how old Liberty is, but I don’t recall seeing their ads previously. Um, [00:37:36] Christina: [00:37:36] Well, yeah. Well, that’s a good point. They, um, there’s are definitely much more like. Uh, fresh right now. And they’ve had that, that theme for a long time, but this is like a totally different approach for them. Like this seemed, I would, I would need to research this because I don’t want to say definitively, but I feel like whatever ad agency they work on with this campaign and going back to, however long they’ve been working with them [00:38:00] is distinctly different than whoever was handling their ads beforehand. [00:38:03] Brett: [00:38:03] well, and they’ve branded yellow to the point where. When I see yellow in my head, it goes Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, um, like in the, in the commercials, there’s just, everything is yellow too, to an extent that it’s almost so ubiquitous. You don’t notice it, but like the car will be yellow. The hat will be yellow or the there’ll be yellow in the, uh, street crosswalk. [00:38:29] And just, and then it ends with a solid yellow screen. And even though even the ones that they shoot. On the like pier in New York, it it’s, everything in your memory becomes yellow. And that is that’s like H and R block green, like to really own a color like that is [00:38:48] Christina: [00:38:48] or totally, or, or a magenta T-Mobile magenta, which they have trademarked, uh, But, yeah. And now, now you’re seeing yellow all it. Can I just have the Coldplay song, [00:38:59][00:39:00] Brett: [00:38:59] It’s all yellow. [00:39:01] Christina: [00:39:01] Exactly. Actually that would be C they should license that they should like, well, they wouldn’t pump actually, you know what? [00:39:08] Coldplay might license that to them. They might, they might be like, yeah, we’ll take the money, but, but Coldplay wouldn’t, they could get a cover. [00:39:14] Brett: [00:39:14] If they ever do a documentary on the P tapes for Trump? I know the perfect soundtrack. [00:39:22]Christina: [00:39:22] Okay. Yeah. And actually that, I think Chris, uh, Chris Martin would totally be like, yeah, it’s cool. [00:39:27] Brett: [00:39:27] Yup. That’s that’s fair use. [00:39:30] Christina: [00:39:30] Yeah. I think, I think he’d be like, Oh yeah, I will. I will absolutely let you license this. No problem. I’ll waive my fee. [00:39:37] Brett: [00:39:37] so speaking of TV, but without commercials, uh, HBO has a series called raised by wolves, and I know you haven’t seen it yet. [00:39:49] Christina: [00:39:49] No, I haven’t. But you told me you were going to tell me about [00:39:51] Brett: [00:39:51] But it is some good Saifai it’s uh, the premise is, uh, it’s it’s the end of the world. Uh, it’s a [00:40:00] war that the earth has devolved into a war between the theist and the atheist. Uh, the division is, is religious and the atheist, the theist send off an arc, uh, to find a new world. [00:40:15] That they can settle and, and, uh, escape the quickly, uh, devolving hellscape of earth. And it’s gonna take, take a long time because it’s huge and full of people. And can only go so fast that the atheist take two Androids and like eight embryos and put them in a small, fast shuttle craft and shoot it off to this planet. [00:40:43] Uh, with the intention of the Androids, being the parents and raising these eight human embryos and recreating the human race from these embryos. And so the story is about, uh, [00:41:00] well, that’s what this story is about. It’s about these two Androids doing their best to recreate humanity. Meanwhile, the theist do show up. [00:41:10] They eventually make it to this planet. And, uh, it is bizarre. It is not a, a plot that has been beaten to death, uh, as far as, uh, apocalyptic, uh, themes go and it, yeah, no, it kept me, it kept me hooked the whole time. It’s definitely worth a watch. [00:41:35] Christina: [00:41:35] okay. I will watch it. Um, I’m looking this up right now. Uh, Ridley Scott actually directed the first two [00:41:40] Brett: [00:41:40] Which makes perfect sense when you see it. [00:41:42] Christina: [00:41:42] totally, and that’s actually really impressive that they were able to get him for, cause this is an HBO max show, which is not the same as an [00:41:49] Brett: [00:41:49] Yes. Correct. [00:41:50] Christina: [00:41:50] So I’m actually impressed that really Scott would direct like the two episodes of an HBO max show. [00:41:55] And then it stars the guy from biking’s who is super hot. [00:42:00] So, um, cool. All right. I will, I will watch this, but that sounds good, [00:42:05] Brett: [00:42:05] Oh the, yeah, the, the leader of the, uh, theist group, uh, or he becomes the leader is the guy from Vikings. [00:42:14] Christina: [00:42:14] nice. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Uh, Marcus, um, Or Kayla or whatever. I don’t know. I’m just reading off the Wikipedia page right now, but I’m trying not to read too much either because you know, Wikipedia will spoil every freaking detail for you. Um, okay. So I will watch that. Uh, I, I like the idea of that the Val, uh, ended last week [00:42:36] Brett: [00:42:36] Oh, I didn’t catch the last episode yet. [00:42:38] Christina: [00:42:38] it’s really good, but here’s the best part. [00:42:40] We’re going to get more. [00:42:42] Brett: [00:42:42] Oh, sweet. I mean also, also that’s scary that there’s more to tell, but. [00:42:47] Christina: [00:42:47] Yeah, well, that’s the thing, I guess, that what happened is that they were filming people. I get the sentencing and I guess they have some stuff, you know, like there it ends. And then like they have a preview, I guess, for coming in 2021 where they have like [00:43:00] a jailhouse phone call with Keith. And I just, it was like, after you’d watched like this really emotional ending. I was just like, Holy shit. I was excited. I was like, Holy shit. There’s more, um, they’re saying like, you know, part two or something like that. And, uh, so that’s, that’s exciting. Um, so that’ll be coming sometime in 2021, [00:43:18] Brett: [00:43:18] Did she, [00:43:19]Christina: [00:43:19] started going. [00:43:20] Brett: [00:43:20] no, you go ahead. Cause I’m [00:43:22] Christina: [00:43:22] I was done. [00:43:23] Brett: [00:43:23] uh, did you watch the staircase? [00:43:25] Christina: [00:43:25] Yes. I loved the staircase. [00:43:26] Brett: [00:43:26] haven’t finished it yet, but I’m, it’s one of those shows. If anyone hasn’t seen it and you were a fan of like making a murderer, uh, [00:43:36] Christina: [00:43:36] OGE of that. It’s like the OGE cereal. It actually came out a channel four in, in the UK, I believe. And it was IFC in the United States. Did it in 2004, I believe, which was when I first saw it and then Netflix and in a bind the rights and producing additional episodes. But the case is from 2001. [00:44:00] Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a Scott Peterson, but a different, or, uh, first name isn’t Scott, but his last name is Pearson, but it’s, you know, not related to Scott Peterson, that was the case that took over everybody’s imagination. But it, yeah, it’s like the OG serial or making a murderer. Sorry, go on [00:44:15] Brett: [00:44:15] Well, it’s, it’s frustrating in that way that like every episode, which is true of all of the like serial and making him, or every episode flips you’re. Your guests. You’re like, Oh, he totally did it. Oh, no, there’s no way he could have done it. Oh no, I think he did do it. And it’s this, like, it’s the kind of thing that makes me want to just read the ending. [00:44:39] Like I get tired of being flipped back and forth, but at the same time, it’s entertaining and, and it makes for a good serial production. [00:44:48] Christina: [00:44:48] Yeah, no, totally. Well, so the interesting thing with this one, cause, uh, is Michael Peterson was the guy. Um, and, and what was interesting is that it was a, it was a French television mini series. Uh, it was, uh, although might’ve been on channel [00:45:00] four in the U S but it was, it was made by, by a French, uh, uh, director who documented the trial and then IFC bought it in the U S and that was, that was when I first saw it. [00:45:09] So I was in college when I first saw it and I was really taken with it because exactly, as you said, like, you don’t know what to believe, and what’s also interesting in the case, and it’s interesting to see because, you know, it took place about 20 years ago at this point. How differently, um, like some of the prejudices and the arguments that the prosecution made about him [00:45:31] Brett: [00:45:31] About how, how his bisexuality was like a criminal point of view. Yeah. [00:45:36] Christina: [00:45:36] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, which even then I’m or being enraged and like incense, remember like watching this as like, you know, a sophomore in college and being like really angry that this was something that happened. And this was like on the record and was like part of the discourse and, and was completely fine by this, you know, district attorney. [00:45:54] And I believe that, that it was like the main da who prosecuted the case. [00:46:00] Um, but now. I, I do wonder even in the South, because I think this was like in North Carolina or something. I do wonder if this would have been this sort of thing, like where if they would have been that willing to, um, Go that hard on, you know, he’s bisexual, therefore he must’ve killed his wife because she, she must not have been able, she must not have been able to deal with that aspect of his personality, even though there was no proof that he’d had any sort of affairs or that she had problems with that, or was unaware of it or any of that, you know, like it’s, it’s standing as his motive was, was really, um, Grotesque and homophobic. [00:46:45] And at which, you know, to me initially also just, you know, the, the police and I w I will say this, the one thing that is that you have to note when you talk about the staircase, is that the filmmakers, although they try to be, he tried to be objective. [00:47:00] He also had full access to the defense attorney and to the defendant and to his family. [00:47:06] And. Did crafted in a way that would make you ask the question. But ultimately the director was very sympathetic to the defendant, like very sympathetic. And so that’s really the perspective that you’ve see as much doubt as he tries to bring in from other areas, this isn’t going, it is still going to kind of sway you and other things cause it’s like, okay, who do you have access to? [00:47:27] Who’s going to talk to you. Who’s who are you embedded with? Right. So that has kind of changed stuff, but, um, Yeah, that when serial came out in 2013 or 2014 or whatever year, it was, the serial came out. Uh, it was one of those things that, um, I kept telling people, cause everybody was obsessed with cereal and I was like, you have to watch the staircase. [00:47:45] You have to watch the staircase. And I don’t even think it was available for streaming then. And then they finally did like another, um, kind of update. Um, and then they. Later developed new episodes for [00:48:00] Netflix after Netflix bought all the rights. But I believe I even subscribed to like Sundance or something Sundance now or something originally. [00:48:07] So I could get the staircase on streaming. Although I believe I have a DVD set somewhere. I don’t know. Uh, yeah, but that’s, that’s a good stuff, but I agree with you sometimes. You’re just like, all right, can you just tell me what happened? Like, and you just cut to the end. [00:48:21]Brett: [00:48:21] Yeah. But you know, the journey, you know, [00:48:25]Christina: [00:48:25] No, I think the hard thing with stuff like, uh, th the staircase is a little bit easier because that has been like adjudicated. And, and the things that happen have happened. And, and I don’t want to like ruin it for anybody, although you can obviously look it up on Wikipedia because it’s all public record and whatnot, but, you know, that’s all been adjudicated, whereas making a murder and, um, um, add-on, uh, say age, you know, from serial, that was also a really good, uh, HBO, like two part, two or three part series, um, about him. [00:48:57] Like there are these ambiguous questions in [00:49:00] your mind that are not really resolved. And the ultimate resolution of did he, or did he not do it is not answered because, you know, uh, he’s going to, he, he still claims he didn’t, unless something like that changes, you know what I mean? But at least like the legal aspect has been, um, uh, resolved. [00:49:21] Whereas some of these other cases, I think the fact that they. Aren’t like leaves, not only are there these open questions, but also Abe appeals are pending or whatever. Like you have to like wait for time. And sometimes the, the trials, you know, the trials, the documentaries don’t catch up with that stuff, which is another reason actually, why the staircase is interesting because the filmmaker came back a decade later and shot more stuff to add updates because interesting things that happened on appeal. Uh, which, uh, I think, you know, that was, that, that was certainly more common now, but it, it wasn’t common then for that type of show, I mean, especially something that [00:50:00] was like a French mini series that I believe they did air it on, uh, like. ABC or something at one point, like maybe edited things, but it was a primarily air in the U S on an obscure cable channel. [00:50:14] That was at least at that time, IFC might be part of basic cable now, but it was, it wasn’t part of basic cable. It wasn’t part of extended cable. It was like, you had to get premium cable. Like you had to like, like, you know what I mean? Like basic, like, you know, premium cable might include HBO. You had to like pay for the other tier to get IFC. [00:50:31] So very few people it’s like me and a few of my friends. Uh, and like a handful of other people out there probably [00:50:38] Brett: [00:50:38] Didn’t AMC used to be that way too. I remember having a lot of trouble getting AMC in the past. [00:50:45] Christina: [00:50:45] Yeah. And a fun fact, AMC, uh, IFC, Sundance, uh, all the same, uh, company, [00:50:51] Brett: [00:50:51] Yeah, that makes sense. All this CS. So, um, we have, we have more TV we can talk about, but, [00:51:00] uh, we’re coming up to time. So I’m moving some topics to, uh, to next week, including including Queen’s gambit, which if you haven’t watched, you should check out. Um, but we spoke about Casey night things crazy as keyboard, couple of weeks ago. [00:51:17] And we both assumed because the layout wasn’t Cordy that it must be divorced and we were both wrong. Uh, we were, we were informed in discord, uh, that the layout is actually called the one T H E dash one. And it is a layout design to, uh, put the most commonly used letters and letter combinations, uh, closer to the home row. [00:51:45] So the word the, which is the most common word in the English language, and I will note this is very specific to English. Um, but the is, is the home road, uh, First three fingers type, uh, [00:52:00] and then everything else is kind of designed around that. Uh, it is not, it is not a layout that you will find. I don’t think a, a ready-made keyboard for, so this is very much a layout for people packing their own keyboard. [00:52:15] And as another side note, we talked extensively about the, uh, the kind of dials that he had at the pinky location. The location was picked because there were only really two options, uh, for the location on the keyboard that he was building. And, uh, he may have made, uh, other choices given the, uh, the option, but that’s that’s, that was the, uh, the most, uh, beneficial of the choices that they had. [00:52:48]Christina: [00:52:48] very, very nice. Um, That’s okay. That makes sense. So he didn’t have a lot of options. I had to do that. And then the one keyboard, like custom layout. Well, Casey, [00:53:00] like hardcore props to you for not just learning like a different layout, but what, it sounds like a non-standardized very customized layout that will not exist unless you customize it purposely, like in your settings like this, isn’t going to be one of those things where you can go onto someone else’s system and very easily change the layout. [00:53:19] Like Dvorak exists, like as a, as a layout option [00:53:21] Brett: [00:53:21] Say though they say though that they have no trouble switching back to QWERTY, even after learning this, this completely custom layout. [00:53:32] Christina: [00:53:32] okay. Well, [00:53:34] Brett: [00:53:34] Which is, which is impressive in and of itself. [00:53:37] Christina: [00:53:37] I was going to say I’m really impressed by that. And I would like to think that I would have that ability because. I will say this, the, the end of this is nothing in comparison to that. When I go on a windows machine, I am at this point able to at least like use control in place of command, uh, instinctively, um, [00:54:00] and like instinctually. [00:54:00] Like I can do that, but I do still, like if I use it, uh, an ANSI keyboard or whatever, the, the, the, you know, um, uh, internationally out of [00:54:10] Brett: [00:54:10] All right. So yeah. [00:54:12] Christina: [00:54:12] I S I, there you go. Uh, that fucks me up. So I don’t, I would like to think that I would be able to adjust. I kind of doubt it. I mean, [00:54:22] Brett: [00:54:22] Does it make you curious to try? Does it make you curious to, to sit down with a completely foreign keyboard layout, run a few like typing tutor programs until you get the hang of it and then try switching around? [00:54:34] Christina: [00:54:34] Yes. [00:54:35] Brett: [00:54:35] does, it does make me curious, uh, if my, if my brain has room for that, but I use so many keyboard shortcuts. [00:54:42] Like when I design a keyboard, I always have to set the layout of the little command cluster, uh, like function control, option, and command. I have to change whatever keyboard I’m working on. So that those match what you would find on like the original [00:55:00] Mac keyboard layout I always have because all of my kind of chords, all of the, uh, Multiple command keys or modifier keys, and a letter. [00:55:12] All of those chords that I’ve taught myself require those keys to be in the location they’re in. Otherwise it is totally hunting pack. I have to look down at the keyboard and it takes multiple hands to hit command control option as a I don’t do well with, uh, with moving even the modifier keys. I don’t even know if I’d be able to switch to a windows machine and, and substitute control. [00:55:37] Without at least moving it under my thumb. [00:55:40] Christina: [00:55:40] Yeah, no, I mean, I, and honestly, that’s what I often do is that I swap like, or I’ve done that before. Anyways, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve like moved where the control key is, um, that creates its own set of problems. But, uh, there’s a program called auto hot key, which is pretty remarkable. Uh it’s it’s kind of the Holden of keyboard Maestro, to be honest, it’s kind of a [00:56:00] mashup of it’s like keyboard Maestro meets, uh, basically. [00:56:04] Yeah. Um, I just pasted into our cause we’re going to talk about this next week. Cause it will arrive by then. But I ordered my friend, Victoria. I Gizmodo. Reviewed a mechanical keyboard called the key Cron, which, uh, apparently this was like the most funded were one of theirs was like the most funded Kickstarter keyboard ever. [00:56:23] Uh, they’re Chinese made, but apparently they’re very good quality. This is, I got the key Chron K2 version two, which, and I got the one that is, um, hot swappable, meaning that you can actually swap out the switches if you don’t like there. Brand of switches, uh, and it is Bluetooth. It is also wired and it has Mac keys. Yeah. And a function Rose. So it’s, it’s like, it might be like 60, it might be like 70%. I’m not sure, but it’s small. So it’s not like the 60% size, which we’re going to talk about this more. In-depth in like our thoughts on that. [00:57:00] That’s too small for me. I can’t deal with that. Um, I need arrow keys to be totally honest. [00:57:05] And I don’t like to, I don’t want to substitute my arrow keys, some other place. I know some people love it. I do not think I could do it. I would love your thoughts on [00:57:13] Brett: [00:57:13] That’s actually, that’s actually a doubt. Like I almost ordered it. This keyboard and I’m like, Oh, but it has arrow keys. [00:57:20]Christina: [00:57:20] Oh, it was funny. Okay. So, so if you looked at the K four that we’re, no, the keyboard is bigger. They have other options. It might be like the, the case six, um, Let me see, no, the K six also is Eric keys, but they have some models that don’t. So there are, uh, they, they have, uh, they have, they have a lot of different, um, option, uh, keyboards, but I ordered one of these Victoria really liked it. [00:57:43] It was cheap enough that I was like, you know what? Um, cause mechanical keyboards can be, can get really, really expensive people have given this one good reviews. So I’m, uh, I’m excited to try it out and see. Um, what I think about it. And so I’ll [00:58:00] have a review next episode. [00:58:02] Brett: [00:58:02] Are they, I think it only shows that one of the, one of the caves is hot swappable only, only the K2. [00:58:10]Christina: [00:58:10] uh, yeah, only the case actually I think from all future versions are going to be a hot swappable. So I don’t know which ones they have now. Their Reddit is actually really responsive as is apparently their Facebook group, but they ha they’re really responsive in their Reddit. And they’ve told people that their all their future models will be hot swappable. [00:58:28] Um, and so like the, the K three, which is available for pre-order, I believe that that is automatically hot swappable. Um, yeah. Cause yeah, that, that one is just, it’s basically the same number of keys, but it’s, it’s a slim line. Um, and that one, like you can get the low profile key con optical, which is hot swappable, uh, or you could get one with their gantry on mechanical, um, you know, uh, switches, uh, Gator on, sorry. [00:58:54] And, uh, clearly I am not like into the whole keyboard thing, but I’m trying. [00:58:59] Brett: [00:58:59] Yeah. [00:59:00] [00:58:59] Christina: [00:58:59] one of the, one of the, one of the things I got to, I think you’ll appreciate this. I got these key caps because they make this retro Mac, uh, key cap set that is like with the correct, you know, font and stuff. So I’m going to, I’m going to use those, which will be fun. [00:59:17] Brett: [00:59:17] All right. Well, when you get this keyboard, we will discuss in more depth and I will explain my aversion to arrow keys and. Uh, it’s funny to me that on the, uh, the images they have, the space bar has printed. It has a, just a horizontal line on it where like, where you would put the like key, uh, letter instead of a letter. [00:59:41] It just has a space. That’s that’s cute. Um, yes, I look forward to, and, and I am, uh, I’m tempted. Like this looks like a great keyboard and I’m tempted to buy one. I’m going to keep watching it for a while. Uh, the RGB backlight is sold out right now. So I [01:00:00] might wait for that because I’ve never owned an RGB backlit keyboard. [01:00:05] And as much as I think it would annoy me to death, um, I’m very curious to know, uh, what I would do with, uh, with multiple colors in a backlight. [01:00:16] Christina: [01:00:16] Yeah, I know that was kind of my thoughts too. Um, I, uh, I got the RGB backlight aluminum one and, uh, all of the white backlight looks good too. So yeah, I’m, I’m curious to play with that. And I got the, I got the Brown switches. Um, that one is sold out right now, but they have the red and the blue ones are available, [01:00:35] Brett: [01:00:35] I would, I would choose blue. My current keyboard is Brown switches and I just, I wish they were cliquey here, which I never would have said before. [01:00:43] Christina: [01:00:43] Yeah, that was kinda, my concern is that’s why I got the hot swappable one too. Cause I was like, I don’t know how good these switches will be. And I do have like some really nice switches that I could replace. So, um, yeah, so I’m excited, but uh, the, the review has been good and [01:01:00] people who had the first-generation one really, really liked it. [01:01:02] And people, the reviews have been really positive, so we’ll see. But it, uh, yeah, it, it arrives later today. So I’m excited about it. [01:01:10]Brett: [01:01:10] Yo, that was for a hardcore command line, uh, keyboard using nerds who also love television. We nailed it. We hit that Venn diagram perfectly. [01:01:24] Christina: [01:01:24] Perfectly dead ass center, like perfect place in the middle, like right there. [01:01:29] Brett: [01:01:29] I’ll, I’ll all a hundred people that, that applies to are going to be super psyched by this episode, [01:01:35] Christina: [01:01:35] Honestly, honestly, and you know what, but those hundred people, Brett are our people. [01:01:40] Brett: [01:01:40] truly. And if they’re not in the discord, they should be. [01:01:43] Christina: [01:01:43] Okay? Yes, yes, yes, yes. And, and we’d love, love your thoughts in the discourse. You like give, give us more, uh, recommendations of keyboards or other stuff. Um, I’m always looking to waste the money on things, although you’ll be proud of me, Brett. I did not spend $300 on a Taylor Swift to guitar. [01:01:59] Brett: [01:01:59] I [01:02:00] am. Uh, yeah, I I’m, I don’t know if proud of you is the word. I mean, hero hero might be a strong word, but congratulations on your restraint. [01:02:12] Christina: [01:02:12] Yeah, no, here’s the thing. If it had been a good guitar, I would have, well, you know, just as the novelty, but it was like a really crappy, it’s like $150 guitar that basically has a sticker on it, like a decal. And I’m like, I’m like, no, [01:02:25] Brett: [01:02:25] Do you play guitar [01:02:26] Christina: [01:02:26] no, [01:02:27] Brett: [01:02:27] then, then the restraint is less admirable. If you played guitar and you resisted buying a guitar, that would be one thing. But if you don’t even play guitar, And you resisted buying a guitar unless you’re, unless you were like, you know what? I want to learn guitar, but I only want to learn on something endorsed by Taylor Swift. [01:02:47] Christina: [01:02:47] See, and that I was kind of a thing. So grant is taking a guitar lessons right now, and I’ve spent, um, pandemic by being bad with my money by buying lots of shoes and streetwear and gadgets. And he’s [01:03:00] been buying guitars. And although I think he stopped now because we don’t have room for them anymore. [01:03:04] Like I think we have like 10 of them now we have too many. So he’s been taking guitar lessons. Um, and I’ve kind of been like, I would like to play guitar. I mean, maybe this would be something that would encourage me. Uh, and then I looked and I was like, no. And, and also like, She worked with a much better like real guitar company to make like a, a three-quarter like size kind of like baby guitar, like for this, you know, from the, the Taylor guitars temp company or whatever, which, which she’s used for years, which is apparently very high quality. [01:03:39] And you’d get one of those for like $370 versus this. Really cheap, like my first guitar kind of thing. That’s literally, it’s, it’s the same as like their $150 version, but there’s like a vinyl decal, like all over the cover that looks like the album artwork. Like it’s, it’s it, it was one of those things. I was like, I piss money away, but this just strikes me as cheap [01:04:00] and it doesn’t even look good enough to be like, okay, if I didn’t play this, I just hung this somewhere. [01:04:04] I was like, but this doesn’t look that cool. Like, so anyway, I was proud of myself though, because you know what. Six weeks ago, I was in the place where I was just like, I’m so stressed out by everything. I’m just going to buy this for the temporary, you know, endorphins that it will give me, but now I feel like I’m in a healthier place and I didn’t do that. [01:04:28] Brett: [01:04:28] So I just flipped the coin in discord and it said, we’re not talking about Taylor Swift this week, which, uh, Which Dean Johnson, one of our, uh, one of our listeners who does not appreciate our Taylor Swift, uh, our tangents, he will, he will appreciate, uh, that we somehow managed to both talk about Taylor Swift and avoid talking about Taylor Swift. [01:04:54] Christina: [01:04:54] we did, honestly, it was, it was like a very, very brief aside. It was like 90 seconds. [01:04:58] Brett: [01:04:58] yeah, you’re welcome, [01:05:00] Dean. Um, All right. Well, that’s, that’s our show for the week. Folks. [01:05:05]Christina: [01:05:05] that’s it. That’s it. Uh, all right, Brett. Well, get some sleep, buddy. [01:05:09] Brett: [01:05:09] You too.

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You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Brett Terpstra, and you’re listening to overtired with Christina Warren. That was a weird sequence I did that in. [00:00:09] Christina: [00:00:09] That was, but, uh, I don’t, I don’t mind it. I don’t mind it. Um, Hey Brett, how are you? [00:00:15]Brett: [00:00:15] I have a glass of ice tea, a cappuccino and candied ginger, which is like big slices of gin, ginger dried and covered in sugar. So good. I think, yeah, I’m good. [00:00:30] Christina: [00:00:30] I like it. I like it. Um, I, I’m not a huge ginger person, but that sounds delicious actually. [00:00:37] Brett: [00:00:37] It is, um, it, it has a nice burn to it, which is one of the better parts of ginger. [00:00:43]Christina: [00:00:43] Very nice. [00:00:45] Brett: [00:00:45] Have you, um, how’s your health doing? [00:00:49]Christina: [00:00:49] Well, my health is pretty good. I am tired this week, although less than I was when we recorded last time. Uh, it is, uh, our normal record day, which is [00:01:00] Saturday. I’m sleepy. I’m going to take a nap again after we finished recording, but I was able to get through the 25 hours of being or 26 hours of being awake the entire time. [00:01:12] This week. Yeah. But, uh, but I did it, uh, and so that’s super exciting. [00:01:19]Brett: [00:01:19] I feel like we should record in the mornings more often. We, we both seem to do really well with morning. Energy levels are up. Coffee is fresh. [00:01:31]Christina: [00:01:31] Yeah, I like it. I’m a fan, um, energy levels are up. Coffee is fresh and usually, yeah, cause right now it’s still the morning, but it’s afternoon for you. And, uh, it’s like the end of a week. So I’m just kind of, I’m in like a place, [00:01:47] Brett: [00:01:47] Yeah. So w what’s your excuse for being tired this week? [00:01:52] Christina: [00:01:52] Well, okay. I actually, I saw something on Twitter and it made me think, I bet this is an accurate [00:02:00] thing. That’s wrong with me. Uh, I haven’t been outside in so long and I think my vitamin D is probably low anyway, because Seattle, but it’s gotta be like nonexistent now. And I was like reading about how everyone has vitamin D deficiencies. [00:02:13] And I was like, Oh shit, I should get on that because. That probably is one of the reasons why I’m so kind of lethargic and tired. [00:02:22] Brett: [00:02:22] I’ve been taking vitamin D supplements with my bipolar and, and my ADHD. Uh, vitamin D deficiencies are really hard on me, uh, and vitamin E Omega threes, but I have a recommendation for you. [00:02:41] Christina: [00:02:41] what’s that? [00:02:41] Brett: [00:02:41] If you, um, if you start taking vitamin D get it in liquid form, [00:02:47]Christina: [00:02:47] okay. [00:02:48] Brett: [00:02:48] it’s more, more digestible. Uh, it it’s a lot, unless you get exactly the right, uh, formulation of the tablets or the capsules. [00:03:00] [00:03:00] You, you, you can very easily just pass it right through your system without ever absorbing it. So if you get it in liquid form, [00:03:06] Christina: [00:03:06] good in liquid form. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Um, okay, I’ll do that. Um, does that change how you get it? Like, do you have to go to a special, like, you don’t need a prescription or anything [00:03:15] Brett: [00:03:15] Oh, no, no. You can order any supplement. A service will provide, well, I shouldn’t say any, but any, any, you can probably find it on Amazon is what I’m saying. [00:03:27] Christina: [00:03:27] Yeah, no, that’s totally fine. That’s totally fine. Yeah. Um, I asked, because I know that you can, for instance, get stuff like, uh, like B12 supplements, like for under your, under your tongue. They’re not actually as good as it’d B12 shot, but to get it, B12 shot is a little more complicated and. Which sucks because to be told shot is so good, but I need to figure that out too. [00:03:51] Like I need to find a place where I can just because I used to regularly get these B 12 shots. Um, yeah. And, [00:03:58] Brett: [00:03:58] legally [00:04:00] [00:03:59] Christina: [00:03:59] yeah, like I’d go to the doctor, like, and they’d give them to me. And they’re great. Uh, I, yeah. And, and so now I can do like, find a place that will do it. Cause a lot of times now they’re like, Oh, you know, take the pills when I’m like, they’re not as good. [00:04:12] Just give me the damn shot and it’ll [00:04:15] Brett: [00:04:15] put it in my veins. [00:04:16] Christina: [00:04:16] Exactly. And it does, it does like do that, like once a quarter changes your life. I swear to God, [00:04:21] Brett: [00:04:21] What does B12 do for you? [00:04:24]Christina: [00:04:24] well, for me it, you know, fights the anemia, but also gives me energy and just makes me in general, like, Like makes things better. A lot of [00:04:34] Brett: [00:04:34] So it’s valuable. [00:04:37] Christina: [00:04:37] kind of, well, a lot of celebrities, what not like take them like before they go out on concerts and stuff. Like if they’re feeling run down or tired or whatever, [00:04:45] Brett: [00:04:45] it’s the hippie version of speed. [00:04:47]Christina: [00:04:47] I think so, but I do think that there’s like, I have an actual B12 deficiency, like when they’ve done my testing, which is why I’ve been able to like, get the shots, but like a way to kind of get around as you can get these B12 tablets, like you put under your [00:05:00] tongue and they help, but it’s the same sort of thing. [00:05:02] I’m assuming it’s like the vitamin D thing where like, It just, it can pass through your system a lot easier. And so it’s just not quite the same thing. So getting a shot is better. So I assume that’s why I was asking about the vitamin D because liquid I’m sure does absorb better, uh, probably get vitamin D shots as well. [00:05:18] I’m assuming, but, um, if I can get that in liquid form from Amazon, I’m all about it. And then I will set about trying to find a place in Seattle that will give me B12 shots. [00:05:29] Brett: [00:05:29] Yeah, well, I mean, it stands to reason it’s true of any drug. If you ingest it through your, whether it’s your nose or your mouth, you’re going to lose a lot of the potency of the drug just through the digestion process and the way that it absorbs through the skin. But if you inject it right into the blood, Or subdermally, I assume the B12 is like a shot in your butt. [00:05:56] Christina: [00:05:56] no, it was like in your arm. [00:05:57] Brett: [00:05:57] Oh. But, but like in the [00:06:00] muscle, not in the [00:06:01] Christina: [00:06:01] Yeah, [00:06:01] Brett: [00:06:01] Yeah. And intramuscular shots. Yeah. Still, still more effective than digestion. [00:06:07] Christina: [00:06:07] Totally. Yeah. [00:06:09] Brett: [00:06:09] I felt much the same about many of the drugs that I shot and, and to myself, um, just, it’s just a waste to do it any other way. Um, [00:06:19]Christina: [00:06:19] okay. But, but don’t people like often shoot those, like, but those that, that you needed to get like intravenously, like that’s why people put them in. [00:06:26] Brett: [00:06:26] Yes I do. [00:06:27] Christina: [00:06:27] that their fingers or toes or [00:06:28] Brett: [00:06:28] Right. Ideally you hit a vein, but an intramuscular shot where it just is absorbing into the muscle directly is still better than swallowing or snorting. [00:06:40] Christina: [00:06:40] Gotcha. [00:06:41] Brett: [00:06:41] Smoking is pretty effective and in some cases, but you, if you’re really precious about the small, let’s say Graham, that you have a, you don’t want half of it going up in smoke. [00:06:54] Christina: [00:06:54] Yeah, that’s what I thought. That’s what I thought that people didn’t smoke it because you lose out on that. Uh, like maybe you get a decent high, [00:07:00] but half of it goes up in smoke, as you said, [00:07:02] Brett: [00:07:02] The big thing in Hollywood. That I read about in like rolling stone magazine, but had, I was well beyond my drug years before I could ever try it is to, uh, prep heroin. Like you are going to inject it. So like cook it. And then snored it through a straw. It’s not the liquid through a straw and have the, the liquid hits the, your, your nasal mem membranes. [00:07:33] Yeah. And then you would avoid any track marks, but still get the full effect, I guess, just a free tip for all of them. For heroin addict listeners out there. Oh, we’re going to get, we’re going to get banned from something. [00:07:47] Christina: [00:07:47] Yeah, I was going to say, I was like, that’s a, don’t do that. [00:07:51] Brett: [00:07:51] Yeah, nobody don’t do heroin at all it through any hole in your body. [00:07:57] Christina: [00:07:57] Right. But that, that just feels like, okay. [00:08:00] On the one hand. Alright, good job. Not having the track marks, but on the other hand, that, that sounds incredibly uncomfortable, I guess, like to snort liquid, like [00:08:11] Brett: [00:08:11] it’s not it’s it’s like if you, if you’re, if you’re swimming, And you snore a hole like lung full of liquid. Yeah. It hurts a lot, especially with chlorine in it, but just snorting, a spoonful of liquid is actually like I do neti pots. You know what that is? [00:08:29] Christina: [00:08:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s, that’s like your, you put your head back and you, [00:08:33] Brett: [00:08:33] Yeah. It’s like a. [00:08:34] Christina: [00:08:34] this stuff up your nose and it [00:08:36] Brett: [00:08:36] Comes out the other side. Yeah. Which freaks some people out, but they’re actually very refreshing and I find them like your sinuses can handle moisture. [00:08:46] Christina: [00:08:46] no. Yeah, no, those are actually supposed to be really good. I’ve done them before for bad sinus infections or whatever. Um, although the one thing I think about whenever I think of a neti pot is that episode of the office where Jim gets, um, Pam, the [00:09:00] teapot. And he has to basically buy off of Dwight, uh, because white was going to use it as a neti [00:09:06] Brett: [00:09:06] Yup. [00:09:07] Christina: [00:09:07] Yeah. [00:09:07] Brett: [00:09:07] Yeah, there wasn’t a neti pot showed up in an episode of Cougar town that I was rewatching recently. Um, the, the hick dad finally, like the whole episode was about him. Trying to figure out how to use one. Here’s a tip that has nothing to do with heroin. You can buy squeezable, neti pots. That you can just use in the shower. [00:09:32] You use stick it in one nostril, give it a squeeze. It squirts out the other side. And you’re done none of that. Like holding your head sideways over the sink for 20 minutes. [00:09:41] Christina: [00:09:41] Oh, okay. So that I would totally be down with. Cause that is been, always been, my issue is just like, I don’t have like time to want to set up the whole, you know, get in front of the sink thing. So you can go up one side down the other. Okay. [00:09:52] Brett: [00:09:52] Yeah. All right. I’m adding, I’ll put it, I’ll put a, an Amazon affiliate link to a squeezable neti pot [00:10:00] in the show notes. So when thousands of people go buy it, I’ll make, I’ll make like a dollar. [00:10:08] Christina: [00:10:08] Yeah. Yeah. You’ll you’ll you’ll you’ll get do-good dozens of sense. [00:10:12] Brett: [00:10:12] Yes. Um, speaking of, uh, two people signed up for crema off of my. My link. So now I just have to keep them hooked for four more months and I’ll get, I’ll get, I’ll get money for them. I’ll get money for luring people into crema.co. [00:10:32] Christina: [00:10:32] In, in, in, into your, your, uh, your, again, your, your coffee MLM. I’m [00:10:37] Brett: [00:10:37] Yeah. Yeah. [00:10:38] Christina: [00:10:38] it’s not, but I’m going to keep calling it your coffee MLM. [00:10:41] Brett: [00:10:41] Speaking of MLMs, I finally watched the vow [00:10:46] Christina: [00:10:46] Yes. Yes. Yes. It’s perfect segue. [00:10:49] Brett: [00:10:49] It was, yeah, I did it. I did, I did a segue. Um, I, uh, it was very disturbing, uh, in the way that, um, [00:11:00] highly intelligent sociopath’s using their charm for Eve evil is disturbing. it, yeah, that, that was quite the trip. Um, [00:11:11] Christina: [00:11:11] one more episode that will be out this week that like closes everything out. But yes. [00:11:15] Brett: [00:11:15] Oh, I had thought that it had just ended. Okay. That’s good. I thought it was going to leave a few things hanging, but that’s, that’s good. Um, it’s, it’s highly disturbing. Uh, and so there’s this point in the, in the series where they publish the article that most of us read about Nexium and about DAS. And, um, it, they, it didn’t touch at all on the psychology that gets people to a point where they would willingly have themselves branded with a man’s initials. [00:11:57] And it, it [00:12:00] was nice that this series really took the time to kind of like go down that path. And help you understand, like what, how, how you get sucked in what makes you, how you become an active part of a cult. And there’s this line that he was like, nobody joins a cult. Like nobody joins a cult. They join a good thing that they think will make them happier and better. [00:12:29] And then it becomes like then, well, it becomes the cult. Uh, they become part of a cult, but not intentionally. [00:12:39] Christina: [00:12:39] Yeah, no, that was the whole thing. So I’ve got, I’m going to, I put a link in Skype for you. I’m going to have two links in there. People want to learn more a, I really think that people should watch the value if they haven’t already. It’s really fantastic. But the first link that I put in was that original New York times story. [00:12:56] That has Sarah Edmondson’s brand in [00:13:00] it. And like for better, or for worse than what’s really interesting is you actually see this process in the documentary like that article, even though it didn’t go into that psychology, he is what ultimately got the, um, The department of justice and the attorney general in New York, interested in looking into this, like they were because other people had gone to the police before, for years and they didn’t care. [00:13:23] And even at first, after they first go to the department of justice and the police, they don’t care either until the whole kind of wave of me too. Stuff started to put social pressure. On the department for them to finally say, okay, we have to actually investigate this. Uh, but the other thing is that there was a really good documentary. [00:13:44] And I mentioned this, I believe when we talked about this before on the CBC, there’s a podcast series called, um, surviving Nexium. And this is what was really impressive about this documentary uncovering Nexium. This is what excuse me, escaping next. And that’s what it’s called. This, [00:14:00] um, was a really good series. [00:14:01] Um, I didn’t think, um, Was really interesting to me because I didn’t think at first that I needed to watch this documentary because Sarah Edmondson was the subject of this CBC, uh, podcast series that, uh, a friend of hers from childhood made, like she literally ran into him. The summer that she left Nexium and, and he like ran into her on some Island and he was like, how are you? [00:14:31] She’s like, well, I just left the cult that I’ve been in for 11 years. And he’s like, what? And, and she kind of goes into this whole thing and she’s literally coming out of it as she started talking with him. And in the New York times article, you know, came out wildly what’s happening, but I didn’t know. [00:14:48] What we know in the trial, a lot of those things, and so are not the trial in the documentary. A lot of the stuff that had happened, um, that kind of led to that point. But I thought that because of [00:15:00] listening to that series, I was like, Oh, I know Sarah’s story. I know, you know, her perspective, it’s interesting that she’s in this documentary, but I don’t know if I really need to hear more from her, but yet I did. [00:15:12] It turns out because as good as that. Podcast series was it didn’t go into the psychology the same way and because it’s audio and not video. And I think because Mark , who was the guy that actually kind of got Sarah and she was participating in this, this documentary series for HBO. Like many Colts. I don’t know what the obsession with Colts, this is, these people record everything like they’ve document everything, which ultimately is a problem when you’re going to be, you know, uh, indicted on criminal charges. [00:15:50] When you have recordings of everything that you do. But like these people, you know, they recorded all their conversations. It’s like no one trusted one another. And [00:16:00] having all of that. As part of the, the HBO series, I thought really added to the whole thing, because not only could you hear people talking about the psychology yeah. [00:16:10] As they’re out of this cult, but you have recordings of the stuff that was happening while they were in it. You know, which to me, I really do think helps me kind of understand where that psychology of how highly intelligent people are able to get. You know, like sucked into this thing and how highly intelligent people are able to manipulate others. [00:16:33] Brett: [00:16:33] Well, and the people that were like most involved in doing the most recruiting were some of the people that you would least expect. To fall for this kind of thing. Uh, highly successful, highly intelligent, uh, good looking really like decent self esteem on, in most cases, uh, when they start and, you know, they went to this, um, uh, self-help seminar basically, and [00:17:00] were lured into a whole chain of it. [00:17:04] Wasn’t an MLM. I mean, really. Uh, yeah, I think, I don’t know what the podcast got into, but a big part of understanding for me was hearing from the guy’s perspective, uh, their path into it, and like the groups that started off as just for the males and then what, and it was those that eventually morphed and became this female only division. Of Nexium, um, which, you know what I mean, memories of the disc operating system dos. So it is weird to me every time they say dos, which is Latin for dominance over submission, except not, that’s not the exact translation, but yeah, it is. Yeah. Anyway, like the male group morphs into this, the sex [00:18:00] cult part of. [00:18:01] Of Nexium and, uh, seeing that kind of history of it and not just following the female’s path to that in into dos was it was helpful for me to understand how and why. [00:18:16] Christina: [00:18:16] Yeah, no, that was helpful for me as well, because it was a different perspective. And the, the, the CBC podcast got into the mail thing a little bit. And now one also has a terrible name. It’s known as SOP. Um, [00:18:28] Brett: [00:18:28] All right. So something society protection [00:18:31] Christina: [00:18:31] Society of society protectors. Right? And so you’ve got these two acronyms that are for things that we know in completely different ways, which in some ways it’s actually helpful, right? Because if you hear someone talking about dos or SOP, you’re not thinking that you’re talking about weird culty shit. Um, but yeah, the society protectors they’ve talked about that, but they didn’t get into it. And like, so I didn’t under, I didn’t know, you know, the stuff like where you see Keith Ranieri, who’s now been convicted and is awaiting sentencing is in [00:19:00] jail. Um, where, you know, he was being so flat out manipulative and misogynistic and frankly kind of terrible and like total, like, uh, All the gross, toxic masculinity, uh, you know, to kind of traits all, all those talking points, frankly. [00:19:18] Uh, it was, was his whole bag w w but he couches it in his he’s like, Oh no, I’m enlightened. And this is how men and women can talk more together. Like, you know, that didn’t become a, that wasn’t really obvious that that was kind of a part of this, at least from the podcast series. Um, I think there were a few advantages that the documentary had one, and this is no way a slight on the podcast guy, because the CBC guy to do a very good job, but you know, you have professional documentarians who are happened to be kind of embedded in recording this stuff. [00:19:52] And they also had the advantage of. A lot more time, you know, to kind of do this over a [00:20:00] area, but also, you know, the men were, were actively like participants in this documentary series on HBO, whereas. The podcast was primarily Sarah’s story. And she was the main voice you heard. Although they did a very interesting job where they had people who’d worked under Sarah and called her like the worst boss they’d ever had and people who’ve been recruited by her interviewed as well. [00:20:22] And, um, you know, they, they certainly didn’t in a lot of ways. I mean, and I think that she herself, she and her husband actually, that’s one of the things I really appreciate about the vow is that the people who were involved in this. Are grappling with their own culpability and the role that they played in recruiting people into this thing. [00:20:40] And it’s not one of those things where, you know, you were, they are given a, a total pass, so to [00:20:48] Brett: [00:20:48] Yeah, no, they’re, [00:20:50] Christina: [00:20:50] w [00:20:51] Brett: [00:20:51] they’re guilty. It’s very, uh, palpable in this storytelling. Uh, they’re constantly referring to, I can’t believe the part I [00:21:00] played in this. [00:21:01] Christina: [00:21:01] yeah. Which, which to me is. It makes it like that much more humanizing? Uh, I think because obviously they’re victims and obviously they didn’t intend to, to do the things they did, but it is to me, I think helpful. Cause a lot of times when you hear these sorts of stories, that guilt aspect is under is like downplayed. [00:21:22] And, um, and it’s not an, either the, the, the documentary or the, the podcast, but yeah, I appreciated kind of that, that men’s perspective thing, because that really did open up. That’s how you get to dos. That’s how you get to that. What was interesting too, especially if you like listen to both pieces together and I encourage you Brett, as well to listen to the podcast because it’s a good listen and most of the episodes are about 30 minutes long. [00:21:44] Um, and so I encourage you to listen to it cause it’s really good is that, um, When you kind of take them together, you can kind of see what the grip was. Cause it was this MLM thing where ultimately you’re trying to recruit people. Into [00:22:00] taking these classes to become kind of, you know, become more and it was kind of a self help thing and you would get, you know, money and commissions based on that. [00:22:07] And very few people made any money off of it. It is. It’s the real story about how that works. One of the few people who actually made very good money on it was Sarah Edmondson who was branded and who ultimately like it was her brand. And that image that went to the New York times and kind of helped, um, uh, along with it, Catherine oxen, Berg, who was trying to get her daughter out and who was pressuring people behind the scenes, you know, that, that was ultimately what was able to kind of, to get the attention for them to investigate the really terrible things that were happening. [00:22:37] But what was interesting is that she admits. And I think completely accurately in the HBO thing that she says, you know, the reason that she was recruited into dos wasn’t because is Keith Ranieri her as a sex slave, but because he wanted her to recruit people. Like that’s what her role was. Like. He didn’t [00:23:00] see her, like, because he never tried anything sexually with her and maybe he would have made passes and she just was oblivious to it and didn’t pick up on it or whatnot, but like that wasn’t going to be her part of this. [00:23:10] But the reason they wanted her was because she was so fucking good at recruiting people. And she was because she may made a ton of money. Like a ton of money off of bringing people into it, to the point that, you know, she opened her own center in Vancouver, which, you know, I think was, was, was profitable. [00:23:27] And, uh, You know, she goes into more details on the podcast, but like she, she did well in the MLM component, which most people didn’t do, which is interesting because she was high up in the sense that that’s another good thing. But the, the documentary is that Sarah was high up and was kind of an insider insofar as she made the company money. [00:23:50] But Mark was high up in the sense that he was like Keith’s one male friend and was actually part of the. [00:24:00] Closer to the inner circle of getting more into the psyche about how fucked up this place actually works. And it’s really interesting because it was a Marxist and his wife, Bonnie who left first and, you know, she saw what stuff was and she was like, I’m out of here and it took him longer to leave. [00:24:23] And then that’s really what kind of kicked off after Sarah left. You know, then them getting together with, um, uh, Catherine Luxenberg to really all of them working together to take this down and was what I like about the documentary. I think I mentioned this when we talked about it last time is that I had no idea somebody who’s followed this case pretty closely, uh, wrote a lot of things about the trial. [00:24:45] Uh, if I lived in New York, When the trial was happening, I have a feeling like if I had still been a journalist that I would have actually actively like argued for me to go to Albany, to, you know, sit [00:25:00] or I actually, I don’t even think the case was an Albany. I think it was in Brooklyn, I think is where they were doing the, um, the stuff that I would have like actively argued to like be on that beat and go to court every day. [00:25:10] Uh, because I, I w I was so interested by it, but, but you know, that wasn’t reality. Um, but. As somebody who fought, but even what I’m saying, there was this, somebody who followed this, I feel like very, fairly closely. I had no idea the role that all these individuals played in act and being responsible for the police and the FBI and the government, like actually investigating this and taking this down because watching the series, it’s very, very clear, had they not done all the things that they did. [00:25:43] The charges never would have been filed like ever like it, like it wouldn’t have happened because [00:25:49] Brett: [00:25:49] Well, they ignored it for so long. They, they, it’s not that no one was reporting this. Like once, once Sarah got into really pursuing it, she found out that [00:26:00] like people had left the organization years ago. [00:26:03] Christina: [00:26:03] Yup. [00:26:04] Brett: [00:26:04] And had submitted reports to the attorney general to the da and had gotten no traction at all. [00:26:12] Christina: [00:26:12] Exactly. That’s what I’m saying. They had no traction, not only that, but there were people who were sued out of existence. Like there were, um, and, and the podcast does actually go into this and interview some of the, those women, [00:26:23] Brett: [00:26:23] 360 lawsuits in a 10 month period. [00:26:27] Christina: [00:26:27] Yeah. Yeah. I mean this woman in Seattle, um, who I would love to interview some point who, you know, she opened up a center, she went bankrupt and her full time job became defending herself and she won, but she was having to go up against, uh, Claire Bronfman, who is, um, the air. [00:26:46] She who’s been sentenced now to, I believe, six or seven years in jail, um, who. Was like the money behind us. [00:26:54] Brett: [00:26:54] The Seagram’s Seagram’s Aras. [00:26:56] Christina: [00:26:56] Yes. Seagram’s, Zara’s who I is estimated that she’s gave [00:27:00] them over $200 million, um, over a period of time. But, but, you know, she was funding all these lawsuits and this poor woman who, you know, is just a regular working class person, you know, had like a kind of, I think, kind of a, a health bookstore, something that, that, that would under her. [00:27:15] Then she had a Nexium facility. She leaves. Um, and she was never part of dos. She was never part of any of that. She left for other reasons. And. She was sued. Yeah. She had like all those hundreds of lawsuits against her, uh, where and where the court I even said in some of their filings that they’d never seen, seen attorneys act so justly. [00:27:36] And so like viciously and aggressively towards someone. And it became her life and she couldn’t afford a lawyer. Like she could not afford an attorney. And when she filed for bankruptcy, they held her bankruptcy out for years and went over every little thing and tried to prevent her, her bankruptcy proceeding from happening. [00:27:55]I mean, it was it, you know, they, they did everything they could to ruin her life. And for many [00:28:00] people and it, into some extent, frankly, it probably did to some extent, but she ultimately prevailed out of sheer, just tenacity, like representing herself, going against very high powered lawyers, um, which just, again, shows that the people that were sucked into this thing were not dumb people. [00:28:17] A dumb person is not going to be able to defend themselves in court and win. Uh, against people like that. [00:28:24] Brett: [00:28:24] The thing with these, like they’re called slap suits. Like the person suing doesn’t actually expect to win. They expect what happened to happen. They expect to create, to go after someone who can’t afford to defend themselves and silence them. By making them go bankrupt by tying them up in court by basically, uh, it’s like the Philippines lesser of legal proceedings, except with far board dire consequences for the person being sued. [00:28:55] Christina: [00:28:55] what was that a doubt, but, but usually people won’t go all the way through and follow through because as you said, exactly the point [00:29:00] is, is to tie people up. And it’s interesting because you very rarely do see somebody automatically prevail. I mean, usually what happens. I mean, I, I would argue that the Gawker lawsuit, uh, which, uh, you know, uh, Peter teal was secretly financing. Was largely a slap suit, what wound up happening because of how far when, and because of the jurisdiction, they were able to argue it in. And a bunch of other things was that, you know, Gawker lost and then the, the judgment was not stayed. Uh, and, and, um, Because there are almost zero companies who could, uh, survive $130 million judgment, um, you know, but he had to be sold, you know, when bankrupt and, and, and whatnot. [00:29:44] And, and, and then, you know, things were sold off, but that was, that was a slap suit. And it was one of many, I mean, that, the thing is, is, and there’s a great documentary. On the Gawker thing called nobody speaks that doesn’t just cover the Gawker trial, but also covers some other anti first amendment, [00:30:00] uh, things that have happened. [00:30:01] There’s, there’s a case for the Las Vegas sun and some other stuff, but what was less covered with the Gawker thing was that that the, the, the whole Kogan lawsuit was the big thing. And that’s ultimately what took down the company, but, um, Teal was also behind a ton of other lawsuits that had zero merit, like zero. [00:30:21] Like there was like Charles C. Johnson who, you know, is like that, that right wing troll who, um, like he’s been permanently banned up from Facebook and Twitter and a bunch of other platforms. And, and he’s like, doc people, he’s just like a truly terrible person. He, uh, sued for libel because, um, Someone who ironically now works at the New York times, a very good reporter posted it was posted, but there was a rumor that, uh, when he was in college, um, at Claremont McKenna, he shit on the floor, uh, and, uh, like in, in [00:31:00] the bathroom or something and was like caught. [00:31:02] And, and that was like a, a known, like, kind of story about him. And he sued over that being published and there was. Like zero, anything where that could be considered libelous. Like it wasn’t presented as fact it was presented as this is a boomer that we’re hearing. He’s a public figure, you know, like it’s, it’s, it’s a pretty cut and dry thing, but when Univision bought. [00:31:27] The company formerly known as Gawker media group sands, the Gawker archives, uh, and was going through the, the sale to finalize everything. There were a number of, of posts, including the, the Charles C. Johnson post. There was also one from, uh, an insane and yeah, main guy. Who’s also very litigious. So I’m being careful to deliver, leave what I’m saying, but he has claimed he’s claimed that he invented email. [00:31:55]Do you, are you familiar with [00:31:56] Brett: [00:31:56] No, no. [00:31:58] Christina: [00:31:58] All right. So there’s this guy who is a computer [00:32:00] scientist, uh, and, uh, he used to be married to Fran Drescher. He tried to run against Elizabeth Warren for Senate, uh, he’s from India and then immigrated to the United States. And when he was like 11 or 12 in the seventies, he created some, um, sort of, kind of like intranet experience for. [00:32:21] Some dentists, New Jersey. And as part of that, he had some sort of electronic mail system that was part of his interoffice kind of set up that he created for them. And he filed patents on that and claims, uh, that he invented email in 1979. Now all prior art proves that email existed long before that and electronic mail and that sort of thing existed long before that. [00:32:46] And certainly. The system that he created, especially as such a young person was very impressive, but that was not the emission of email, but he was able to get this with Sonian to write and feature him as the creator [00:33:00] of email, people looked into it and they were like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is not, this is not actually great, you know, ARPANET and a bunch of other things. [00:33:06] There’s a lot of things that predate this. Gawker wrote a story about how not even Gawker besides Gizmodo wrote a story about how this was inaccurate, kind of delving into his accusations, a text or the publication did as well. And he sued using Charles harder. Who’s also one of the Donald Trump’s attorneys, uh, funded by Peter teal, um, sued, uh, the pub sued Gizmodo. [00:33:32]Over, um, the accurate claims that he did not invent email and, and tie this up in court for years. Uh, he also tied it up in court for, for years and years against, um, Techstars and techtard is against these, these slap suits and his, his, you know, his, for anti slap legislation for this very reason as TechTarget almost went bankrupt from this, um, as well. [00:33:54] And when. The Univision deal closed. We like, I remember cause we [00:34:00] were in long union meetings and stuff over this. One of the things that happened is they just said a lot of the lawsuits. And so as part of that, they removed. About six posts from across the sites. And we were as journalists, very, very upset that these very valid stories that were in no way questionable in terms of their journalistic integrity. [00:34:18] Like it, wasn’t a thing where you can look, you look at the whole Hogan take and you can say tape, and you can say, you know, that might’ve crossed the line in some cases. And that had been removed years previous and, and, you know, the video had any way it’s like, okay, that that’s taken down or whatnot. [00:34:31] These were things that were in no way. Controversial, uh, like, like these are very direct things and the post went down, um, our way, uh, to kind of get around it because the union was, was very upset about taking stories down was, was to then write, reporting about the fact that the stories had to come down, embedding the original stories into that reporting as references [00:34:57] Brett: [00:34:57] it’s like that, that Donald [00:35:00] Trump jr. Ad campaign or ad that came out where he’s like, and I’m not, I’m gonna take the high road and I’m not going to talk about Hunter Biden’s cocaine problem. [00:35:08] Christina: [00:35:08] Exactly. Yeah, no, that’s exactly it exactly. It’s like, well, I’m not going to mention, you know, I could mention all of these things, but I’m not. Yeah, no. So we had to kind of do the, the, the re reporting on, on, um, that stuff. Uh, but, uh, the texter case was even worse because, you know, they’re like an independent place and, you know, but you just see the impact of these slap suits. [00:35:26] So, uh, but yeah, to go back to the Nexium thing. Yeah. Like, um, the D the attorney general and, and, um, you know, uh, the police and people had already been called in to look into this and they were basically like, no, we don’t care. And, and I think that what the documentary is shows is that. It really took it an intense amount of work for people behind the scenes to put pressure on all the powers that be, I think that being featured in [00:36:00] the New York times was key, uh, ultimately that way, and the only reason that they were able to investigate it, but that was something that even in like when the charges were filed, like the New York times reporting was cited significantly. [00:36:13] Even if that wasn’t the main reason like that at least could be a call out that says, okay, this has been reported in a major news publication. And it’s not as if other news publications hadn’t published at the Albany times, union had published a lot of stuff, but the Albany times union is not the New York times. [00:36:28] And I also feel like even though it didn’t come up publicly, like the fact that Catherine oxen, Berg, who I wasn’t familiar with, but she was an actress who was on dynasty in the eighties. And. Her mother is first cousins to print it’s Prince. Charles is first cousin. And I believe that her grandmother is also some yeah. [00:36:52] Part of royalty I’m in another Royal family in Europe. And so she, you know, [00:36:57] Brett: [00:36:57] A literal dynasty. [00:36:59] Christina: [00:36:59] Yeah, [00:37:00] exactly. So she, you know, so like her mother is like, literally in line, she’s like however many thousands of people down, but she’s like, you know, part of the Royal family and, um, you know, has like lineage or whatever. [00:37:13] And, um, that’s not irrelevant as it turns out. Right? Like that’s one of those things where, especially when you’re talking about competing with people who have tons and tons and tons of money, nearly limitless resources, That’s the sort of thing you need. And, but it made me question like, I’m so glad that we, that obviously all this happened, that, that all these people who were part of it, who feel so guilty did actually do the work to hold people to account. [00:37:41] But it makes me question and it’s kind of scary to think about. It’s like, okay, what about all those times? And what about all those cases where you don’t have people who have those resources who have the ability to be tenacious, who don’t. Have the social cues of the headwinds happening around Harvey Weinstein and bill [00:38:00] Cosby and Matt Lauer and all the other things to force prosecutors to take things more seriously. [00:38:07] Like what, what about all of those cases? Because you know that there are so many of them that we just never know about and those that don’t have, you know, Academy award nominated documentary filmmakers embedded with them as they’re going through that process. Like. You know, there have to be so many of those stories that we never hear about. [00:38:27] Never see, and that’s kind of, it’s kind of depressing, but it makes me that much more grateful that the bow happened. And I’m sorry, that was like a 25 minute Christina rant on the bow. [00:38:39] Brett: [00:38:39] Hey, you were timing it too. So let’s say that you go to HBO and you do a deep dive on the vow and Nexium. You’re going to want a palate cleanser afterwards to check this out. I am fucking segwaying like a pro today. You’re gonna want a palate cleanser after that. And you know, what’s really good Ted lasso [00:39:00] over on Apple TV. [00:39:01] Plus, [00:39:02] Christina: [00:39:02] Yes, it is. [00:39:03] Brett: [00:39:03] did I nail that? Did I? I think I just nailed that. [00:39:06] Christina: [00:39:06] You nailed it. You [00:39:06] Brett: [00:39:06] Oh my God. [00:39:08] Christina: [00:39:08] Ted lasso is so good. [00:39:09] Brett: [00:39:09] Yeah, it is. And it’s so wholesome. And usually for me, super good and wholesome aren’t in the same sentence. I like things raunchy. It it’s it’s, it’s like Ned Flanders with a little bit less religion to it. [00:39:29] Christina: [00:39:29] Yeah. I was going to say, I don’t even think that Flinders is accurate. Cause Ned Flanders is kind of annoying. [00:39:34]Brett: [00:39:34] Well, so if it weren’t for, uh, what’s the main character actors name. [00:39:41]Christina: [00:39:41] Uh, Jason [00:39:42] Brett: [00:39:42] Yeah. If it weren’t for Jason Sudeikis character often being, or almost always being right. His, his colloquial. How do you duty? Uh, counter personality would be annoying, but he always, there’s always a little Ned Flanders doesn’t have [00:40:00] depth as a character. [00:40:01] Um, [00:40:02] Christina: [00:40:02] it definitely, it doesn’t have depth and Ned Flanders. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s it. I think it’s the depth [00:40:07] Brett: [00:40:07] and Ted lasso does it’s, it’s, it’s glossed over by the howdy duty thing, but. He he is, uh, he’s a, uh, the caring and intelligent person who is willing to throw himself. Okay. For anyone who doesn’t, hasn’t already seen this. It’s, it’s an American football coach who gets drafted, hired to coach, uh, [00:40:34] Christina: [00:40:34] A British football [00:40:35] Brett: [00:40:35] British football team, meaning soccer for, you know, Americans. [00:40:39] Um, and he’s completely out of water, but he’s the guy kind of guy who would take that job because it’s a challenge that, and he wasn’t sure what was going on in his marriage and wanted to get it right. Aye. Aye. Aye. I digress. Um, he, he, he’s the kind of the guy who just says, yeah, that sounds like a challenge. [00:40:56] Let’s do it has no idea how to play soccer. [00:41:00] Has doesn’t understand the world, doesn’t understand the teams. It doesn’t understand the most basic concepts of it. And he dives in as a coach and it’s kind of his, his journey and it’s goddamned delightful. [00:41:15] Christina: [00:41:15] it is delightful. Um, it, I feel like it’s filled the void that the loss of the good place [00:41:21]Brett: [00:41:21] Yeah. I could see that. [00:41:23] Christina: [00:41:23] Um, cause they’re very different shows. And I would say that Ted lasso is, is even more wholesome, but like the good place was especially, you know, it came out in 2016 and it was just like this show that was nice and you just kind of needed. [00:41:37] And, and I feel like that’s the role that Ted lasso plays now it’s just, it’s wholesome is exactly right. Like it’s the thing that everything else is horrible except head lasso. [00:41:47] Brett: [00:41:47] never has there been a year that’s so needed something like Ted lasso and. To be fair. Most places, most networks could not [00:42:00] have predicted 2020 and done the production in time for the lockdown on a show that would so well fit the needs of a nation at that time. [00:42:14] Christina: [00:42:14] No, I agreed. Agreed. So like hats off to all of them for doing it. Here’s the ironic thing I have to say. Ted lasso has already been renewed for a second season. A lot of people have been writing great things about it, and it was interesting. You can look back at some of the early reviews of the pilot. And people liked it. [00:42:29] Okay. But it didn’t get super great reviews. And then by like middle of the series, like the first season, Uh, you know, the reviews started to be like, Hey, this is really, really good, because one of the interesting things Apple’s doing as opposed to so Netflix and Hulu who’s takes this approach for the same part as well. [00:42:46] They released episodes weekly rather than dumping them all at once. So you can binge watch. Um, and I actually, I like that approach. I think that there are are ways you can kind of do both to maybe make more frequent drops so that people can binge watch [00:43:00] it more. But I actually do enjoy the process of being able to discover a show. [00:43:04] Um, over time, if I’m able to catch it when it first drops, as opposed to every single episode becoming available, because that then creates this weird pressure for me, it’s like, Oh, I’ve got to, got to get through this right away. [00:43:17] Brett: [00:43:17] It’s a very different experience though. There, there are shows that I would not like if I could not binge. [00:43:25] Christina: [00:43:25] I I’m in agreement with you. And I’m not saying that, like I dislike that the binge aspect, and I’m glad I’ve binged Ted last. So what I am saying though, is that I do appreciate for certain things, the ability for it to unfold. Um, and I do, like they say, Hey, we’re going to, we’ve got this many episodes and they will be released weekly and, and, you know, um, They will all be out. [00:43:48] I feel like what Hulu does sometimes I feel like is maybe the best kind of compromise. It was just to be like, okay, we’ll release a couple of episodes a week. Um, I, I think that that’s a good compromise, but I do like having [00:44:00] that, um, um, kind of, uh, different cadence, but, um, the reviews. As the series got on and got better and better. [00:44:08] And everybody was like, you’ve got to watch this. You’ve got to watch this. But what’s interesting is that the show is really wholesome and it’s a hit. And it’s kind of sad to me in some ways that it’s an Apple TV, not because I have anything against Apple TV plus, and I’m actually glad that it’s already been renewed. [00:44:22] And maybe that wouldn’t be the case if we’d gone with something else. But the show was based on a character that stake has created for NBC sports. And it’s produced by Warner brothers. And so one of brothers now has their own thing, HBO, max, and this would have been a great HBO max show, not an HBO show, but an HBO max show, meaning something that would have, you know, lived on, on a. [00:44:44] If the title is terrible, but would have not been on the premium HBO network, but would have been an original series for HBO max, but it also would have been a great original series for peacock, which is NBC Universal’s, um, new streaming thing. And, um, it’s where, [00:45:00] you know, parks and rec [00:45:01] Brett: [00:45:01] Amber Ruffin show. [00:45:02] Christina: [00:45:02] Yeah. And, uh, You know, and, and peacocks actually, I think really good in terms of the new streaming offerings, because it has a lot of really good catalog stuff. The commercials are reasonable and, um, they are going to have some original series as well. And so it’s sort of a weird thing and that it was green-lit before those services launched. [00:45:25] So Apple got it. But. Everybody who was involved in it, like had contracts with these other companies. So that’s, that’s my inside baseball [00:45:33] Brett: [00:45:33] Good for Apple. [00:45:34] Christina: [00:45:34] I agree. They need it. I actually really liked the morning show. [00:45:37] Brett: [00:45:37] Yeah, me too. All of it. Yeah. I loved it. [00:45:41] Christina: [00:45:41] Yeah. Uh, the episode, um, that shows the, the, the girl, when she goes into the hotel room with him was one of the most real representations of that [00:45:54] Brett: [00:45:54] Of the whole. Me too. Yeah. The origin of me too. Yes. [00:45:59] Christina: [00:45:59] frankly [00:46:00] of date rape that I’ve ever seen on television, I’ve never seen like a portrayal that captured it, that accurately, uh, ever, and, uh, really, really, really good. Um, we have a sponsor read don’t we? [00:46:16] Brett: [00:46:16] We do. And, and you, you, you mentioned HBO, max and I was going to pull off because there’s another show on HBO max that I want to talk about and I was going to pull off yet another perfect segue. But we do have to do it. Uh, our sponsor read not, we have to what? Well, we do contractually have to do the sponsoree, but also I’m excited about it. [00:46:38] So [00:46:39] Christina: [00:46:39] it’s a good sponsor read and this can fit in. Cause if you’re in a country, for instance, that doesn’t let you have access to HBO, max or peacock or us Netflix. This could be an option [00:46:51] Brett: [00:46:51] Yes, express VPN is definitely an option. Um, the focus of this week’s read is, uh, [00:47:00] about, uh, your data and your privacy. So it goes like this. Have you ever wondered why internet access is so much cheaper these days? Like 30 to 40 bucks a month? That’s because internet service providers like Comcast or at, and T aren’t just making money off subscription fees. [00:47:16] They’re also making money from spying on your internet activity and selling your history and data to big tech companies, which I could also segue into the social dilemma documentary I want to talk about. But again, again, we are contractually obligated to finish this. And I feel good about it. I, I’m not trying, this is, this is a good thing. [00:47:38] They’re supporting the show. Um, anyway, uh, what’s the, what’s the best way to make sure that 100% of your data is encrypted and that your internet provider can’t get ahold of it. You guessed it. Express VPN expressly creates a secure tunnel between all of your devices and the internet so that everything you do online, it’s encrypted it. [00:48:00] [00:47:59] Reroutes your connection through a secure server. This blocks your internet provider from seeing everything that you do online, all they can see is that you’re connected to an express VPN server, but nothing beyond that. And it’s not just for your phone or computer express, VPN works on all of your devices, including tablets, smart TVs, and even your entire router so that your, your whole family can stay protected. [00:48:22] And I can’t stress this enough. We’ve repeated this, uh, It’s week after week, but express VPN is super simple to use. It’s literally just one click and you’re connected. There’s no settings, no dials. It just connects. And you’re in your job protected. So your data is your business. Protect it and express vpn.com/overtired. [00:48:45] And when you visit express vpn.com/overtired, you get three extra months of express VPN protection for free. That’s E X, P R E S S V P n.com/overtired to learn more. Thanks to [00:49:00] express VPN. [00:49:01]Christina: [00:49:01] Yes. Thank you very much. Um, yeah, I wanna, I want to talk about, um, the, uh, the other, uh, the documentary that you mentioned, and then after that, I want to talk about in be real quickly, [00:49:13] Brett: [00:49:13] Yup. W w we’ll try to fit all of this in totally. [00:49:17] Christina: [00:49:17] you onto. And, uh, I, cause I saw it. I [00:49:19] Brett: [00:49:19] Jesus Christ. It practically deserves its own show, but [00:49:22] Christina: [00:49:22] Honestly, honestly, we should, we should mention it and then we probably should make it its own like top segment. Next time we talk because [00:49:29] Brett: [00:49:29] feel like it’s the kind of thing we can, we can offer a short, glowing review of, and then the people that would actually be wowed by it can go check out the GitHub link, but we’ll see, because we have a discord chat where people can give us feedback now. And. [00:49:44] Christina: [00:49:44] I’m now part [00:49:45] Brett: [00:49:45] Absolutely Christina joined the discord while we were talking, she got her presentation and watch, are you in the discord right now? [00:49:56] Christina: [00:49:56] I’ve already been named, which is fantastic. [00:49:58] Brett: [00:49:58] Watch this. If I type [00:50:00] bang Taylor dent, exclamation point Taylor, it’ll flip a coin to tell us whether we should talk about Taylor Swift. I can also type. A number and then the word topic, and it’ll pick three random topics. And in this case, it says, we should talk about Taylor Swift music and software, but we’re going to ignore that and talk about the social dilemma, which was a documentary about, uh, social media. [00:50:28] And it was highly disturbing to me, which is weird because I already knew social media. It was bad, [00:50:35] Christina: [00:50:35] I know, I know. And. It’s real bad. I was going to say, and I feel like there’s, I don’t know, certainly not like the Nexium people. I didn’t get anybody in a cult. Uh, I didn’t get anybody branded, but, you know, I spent the early part, my career writing about and advocating for and being like, A big supporter of social media and my career [00:51:00] exists in large part because of social media, like genuinely like my career exists because of social media. [00:51:07] And so I, but I, so I have these very strong conflicted feelings about just how bad, so much of this is for society. And yet, like how could it’s personally been for me? [00:51:20] Brett: [00:51:20] What, what got me is like, I’ve always said, there’s this trade off between privacy and convenience and things like. Targeted ads actually often surface things that I would want. And in a lot of cases, I would rather see an ad for something that actually interests me than just a completely random web ad. [00:51:46] But what this documentary reveals is that not only can social media, specifically Facebook and Instagram, not only can they. Uh, [00:52:00] target exactly what you’re thinking, doing feeling at any given time they can adjust it. They can cause perception, shifts that actually change. Say what you, what ads you’re going to click. [00:52:15] They can guide you. Toward clicking an ad by determining what you see and in what order and paying attention to how long you look at a post, what you like, what you respond to a, they detect what mood you’re in and figure out what to give you next to keep you on the screen. Cause that’s their ultimate goal is to just keep you watching. [00:52:39] And same with YouTube and YouTube suggestions and the way all of this works. It’s the fact that they can shift my perception. And this is how people are radicalized, uh, because Facebook doesn’t care what they shift your perception to. As long as it keeps you on this screen and keeps selling you ads. [00:53:00] And if that means shifting you to Q Anon, they’re cool with it. [00:53:04] They’ll turn a blind eye to that. [00:53:06] Christina: [00:53:06] Yeah, I think that I’ve mentioned this before on a previous episode, but I’m going to mention it again and put it in our links. Um, I’ve also put in the Skype chat. Uh, my friend Kevin, um, wrote an amazing article for the [00:53:19] Brett: [00:53:19] Oh, yeah. [00:53:20] Christina: [00:53:20] uh, called the making of a radical. uh, what, how he does it, the, the presentation of it, first of all, it was just beautiful. [00:53:27] Uh, and it goes through his entire like YouTube history and you literally see everything that he’s ever watched and you see the progression of how he was turned into. A radical based on the, you know, and they do that in part by showing a 48 hour snapshot of what he watched and in 2015, and you can see the, the, you know, recommendations getting, you know, more and more towns like reconfirming things and like reconfirming biases and, and you can literally see the algorithm being tuned [00:54:00] to reinforce engagement and to keep him on longer and longer. [00:54:03] And it it’s fascinating. Uh, it’s a, it’s a really good long read. Uh, Kevin did amazing reporting. On it, uh, for, uh, for the magazine, uh, New York times magazine on this and, um, Kevin and I are our former colleagues. Uh, so be saying, this is, uh, certainly partially because I know him and I know his reporting, but also it’s just, it’s really good. [00:54:26] But I think that that’s a really good, uh, thing to read in addition to watching that documentary, uh, because it’s so true. And I think that that’s what more and more of us are coming to realize is that. Like to me, that’s that, that really is the dilemma with social media. I think, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with social media and social media has existed long before Facebook and long before Twitter and long before YouTube what’s different is the algorithm, which is all about reinforcing attention and reinforcing, um, you know, people to stay, uh, tuned and locked in that it is a [00:55:00] distinctly new thing which didn’t happen, like say to live journal, live journal. [00:55:05] Didn’t have an algorithm that. Showed when you would see a friend’s post, everything happened chronologically. And in fact, Facebook was chronological for quite some time and it was the introduction of the newsfeed. And at them starting to show things in non chronological for up, you know, order, uh, which if listeners recall, like when Instagram made that change, a number of years ago, people got really upset. [00:55:28] Brett: [00:55:28] I’m still really upset. I want my, I want my Instagram posts in order. This is the only way to make anyway. Yes. [00:55:34] Christina: [00:55:34] No, but right. But, but we, but this, this, you know, documentary explicitly makes it clear. This is why they move away from the chronological impact. It is all about keeping you engaged and because they’ve, they’ve sold to their shareholders, that engagement is one of those metrics that they can look at for, you know, continued growth. [00:55:53] And they’ve tied that, um, They’ve tied it to revenue and maybe it’s true, but it wouldn’t [00:56:00] have to be, you know what I mean? Like they chose to double down on that as, as a Mark of showing growth. But to me was really disappointed about this is that obviously you can influence an impact and manipulate how people are going to stay engaged with stuff and, and, and, uh, keep them online and keep them part of these things for longer and longer. [00:56:19] Like, obviously you can do all of those things. Um, But what’s not clear to me is like, I, they didn’t have to do that. Like [00:56:29]Brett: [00:56:29] To begin with instead of selling their user. [00:56:33] Christina: [00:56:33] what, or they could have continued to sell their users, but without having to like double down and tune everything for engagement, like they, they H whoever, like whoever it was, who made the business decision to sell engagement as the metric. [00:56:50]Did the world a major disservice, not just because it has, um, reinforced the worst types of behavior, but because now [00:57:00] it has become the de facto and accepted business solution. And so I don’t know how we get past engagement metrics. That’s the really scary thing, because I feel like if that had never been brought into the conversation around. [00:57:13] Ad companies, even knowing that that was an option for them, then we wouldn’t have gone down this, this path. Um, and that’s not to say that that ad executives might eventually, uh, gotten smarter. The fact that you could do that. But it would have taken a really long time and it could have been something that those networks could have pushed back on. [00:57:31] You know what I mean? Whereas this wasn’t something like, this is the really interesting thing to me, people blame and not incorrectly, but people really like to criticize the ad tech industry for a lot of stuff. And I’m not opposed to that, but I have to say that in these cases, Ad tech didn’t do anything didn’t have anything to do with this. [00:57:49] They simply were, were taking advantage of systems that these platforms took upon themselves to create and reinforce [00:57:55] Brett: [00:57:55] Yeah, well, and they weren’t offered a lot of other options. Like this is [00:58:00] the way that we’re going to sell these ads. [00:58:02] Christina: [00:58:02] precisely. And that’s, that’s kinda my point is that, is that, but, but like, that’s the thing is like that if they’d been offered, okay, we will sell these ads based on engagement that is not been tuned to keep people. [00:58:14] On longer and longer. It’s not like the ad money would have gone someplace else. You know [00:58:19] Brett: [00:58:19] no capitalism determines that you take the most effective route. [00:58:23] Christina: [00:58:23] Right. And, and so that, to me, like you can blame the ad tech industry for a lot of things, but this is really one of those cases where it’s like, it was just handed to them on a silver platter. [00:58:32] And then of course they are going to see that this. Is effective and double and triple and quadruple down. And once you get a, you know, longer, longer engagement times and more and more other things it’s, but just, it completely shifts. Yeah. Nature of how. And obviously people have been figuring out for years. [00:58:51] I mean, television is a perfect example of this radio, too. Even books. It’s like you figure out what’s going to. Get the most readers, the most viewers and whatnot. And you, you tailor your conversation to that. Like [00:59:00] clickbait exists long before the internet, you know, um, yellow journal was pioneered by Joseph Pulitzer and William Randolph Hearst. [00:59:09] And, uh, I mean, it, it is notable. Uh, I think I’ve probably said this before Joseph Pulitzer was. A pioneer in yellow journalism. And, uh, yet his name is on, you know, the most, uh, one of the most prestigious journalism schools in, uh, you know, uh, Columbia. And he, you know, it’s the name of, of, of the most revered awards and in journalism. [00:59:31] But like, if you actually look at his journalism, his acts as a publisher, He was very, very much of the sell papers at all costs kind of newspaper Baron days. And he and William Randolph Hearst used to do clickbait. Like that was what they did. Um, but, uh, so that that’s something that’s not new and it was still be an issue, but you didn’t have this. [00:59:56] Additional aspect, which is the only things that you’ve see in the only [01:00:00] things that are reinforced are the things that are going to bring up the most outrage and division and, um, anchor and, uh, you know, keep people from, you know, clicking off and doing something else. And, uh, I don’t know, think about that a lot. [01:00:17] Brett: [01:00:17] Yeah, I appreciated that at the end of, uh, the social dilemma they offer, uh, they, they don’t say you have to go out and delete your social media right now. Um, they, you know, you may, you may come to that conclusion yourself, but they offer some tips at the end. And some of them, I had never, never even considered like, uh, like never accept. [01:00:44] Recommended accounts, uh, never S like when Facebook says friends, you might follow, or you might also be interested in never accept those. Like that is just a perfect way to put the [01:01:00] content that they determine you need to see to keep you on screen. That’s a pathway to get there and stuff like that. Uh, if everyone understood this, I think people could be a lot safer on social media. [01:01:15] Christina: [01:01:15] I agree with that. I also think that it’s one of those things. Um, it reinforces that it works. Um, another former colleague of mine, um, Kashmir Hill. Who’s also now at the New York times, did some amazing reporting, um, uh, for the investigation, um, a team at, uh, uh, what was then, uh, Gizmodo media group, uh, about how Facebook determines you might know this person and who your real friends are. [01:01:39] And it’s really creepy. Like I had one that it recommended to me. Last week that says, Oh, you know, you might know this person. And it gave me a person who I don’t have any shared Facebook friends with, with them. I don’t believe, um, We don’t have any outward connections, but [01:02:00] this is someone that I’ve been working with on a very frequently, on a couple of times, a week on, um, uh, a new podcast project that I’ve been working on for the New York times and, and Verizon. [01:02:11] And so he and I have been working together quite frequently, but like his phone number, for instance, we, we text by a signal. We almost, most of our communications has been over zoom and over email. And we’re not connected on any other social networks yet. You know, my, my audio producer is now being a recommended person to be by Facebook and that right. [01:02:32] Exactly. And I’m like, and I know that like, they’re not going through my email. Right. But yet there are some other digital fingerprints include someplace where it’s been able to successfully determine that I should be connected with this person. [01:02:45] Brett: [01:02:45] That is frustrating. Like for someone smart enough to use signal, to like still be defeated by, uh, fingerprints, you don’t even know where they’re coming from. That is that’s terrifying. [01:02:58] Christina: [01:02:58] Right. It is. And, and, [01:03:00] and, and mayor Lee did this great investigation to kind of figure stuff out because she was in a similar situation where she was like, somebody was there was, and there were cases that she reported, like somebody was like suggested to be a friend of someone that turned out to be like a relative or a sibling or something like person didn’t know existed. [01:03:17] Like there are. This is, this is too, to me like the ultimate, um, argument against the fact that like, Oh, all the data is, is anonymized. It’s like, well, yes and no, it might be anonymized in the sense that the advertisers don’t specifically know who you are, but there are enough pointers. And there are enough things that if someone wanted to recreate and figure out who you are and create a profile based on, you know, your, your, um, advertiser ID number and whatnot. [01:03:47] We can see the fact that just that these recommendations for people that you might know are correct. And, and that, that, that are, that are so followed with things. And many times they can even follow things based on location. That’s another weird one with this though, like me and [01:04:00] this person don’t even live in the same state. [01:04:02] Like, you know, but like, but it’s so insidious that, you know, I’m very tech savvy. The person that I’m communicating with is tech savvy and, you know, It’s and I’m not, I’m not mad that like Facebook suggests that we should know one another. It was just one of those things where I was like, how do you know that this is somebody that I’m communicating with very frequently? [01:04:23] Like how, like in the fact that they do because of the fingerprinting and all the other stuff that goes on, that is the thing that makes me just go damn. [01:04:32]Brett: [01:04:32] So, if you wanted to keep track of all of the, uh, potential fingerprints and you wanted to do it in the geekiest way possible, there’s a command line at a command line. Utility might this one didn’t work as well. I felt like I was going to go for a, like a trifecta of segues for this episode. [01:04:52] Christina: [01:04:52] you, you were so successful in other things also we’ve gone over an hour. Should we just start with NB next time? [01:04:56] Brett: [01:04:56] Yeah. Okay. Okay. We will, we will put [01:05:00] this off. If this deserves more than five minutes of our [01:05:04] Christina: [01:05:04] really does. It really does, but we’ll give you a preview. I found this command line thing actually on hacker news, I have to get packer news, the credit, and I hate saying nice things about hacker news, but they were correct in this case. And, uh, listeners, when I say that, never have I seen a project that screamed to me that it was Brett chirp. [01:05:21] Strub more than this, uh, I mean, I stand by it. I’ve never seen a project that like scream to me, Brett terms for more than it’s to the point that when I was looking through how it’s written out, I had to keep checking that it was like, not something that you actually made. Brett. [01:05:37]Brett: [01:05:37] Okay. So yeah, let’s leave that as the teaser, [01:05:40] Christina: [01:05:40] Yeah. That’s the, that’s [01:05:42] Brett: [01:05:42] because I agree. I couldn’t believe that it wasn’t mine. Like, it seems like the kind of thing I would’ve stayed up for five days making and the things that whole thing’s a bash script. It’s a bash script. [01:05:55] Christina: [01:05:55] a basket it’s it’s, I’ve seen some really impressive, really impressive bash scripts [01:06:00] in my day. I think this is probably it’s in the top five. If not the top, top three. It’s definitely the top three. [01:06:06] Brett: [01:06:06] All right. So there will be a link in the show notes. If your curiosity is just peaked and you’ve got to go find it for yourself, look for NB in the show notes, but otherwise we will, we will discuss in a little more depth, uh, in a week. [01:06:19] Christina: [01:06:19] Yup. [01:06:20] Brett: [01:06:20] All right. Well, Christina, I, I have a nice weekend. I know it’s Wednesday for everyone listening to this, but for us it’s the weekend [01:06:29] Christina: [01:06:29] It is. [01:06:29] Brett: [01:06:29] you should have a good one. [01:06:31] Christina: [01:06:31] Yeah, as, as should you, I, should you get some sleep? Um, and a joy hacking away on stuff. I look forward to, um, when we talk next time, I will also be, be in the discord, uh, chatting with people now, but I also, as a teaser for next time, I wanna, I want to have a debate with you about 60% keyboards versus like. [01:06:50] 65% are other ones because I, I have strong opinions and I didn’t realize, cause I’m not super into keyboard culture, but my friend Alex, [01:07:00] Cranz wrote a very contentious, uh, review of the, um, of the, you know, uh, HH, KB, you the happy hacking keyboard, uh, on Gizmodo. And she loves it. And I’m very opposed to 60% keyboards because I can’t not have, um, arrow keys, but I have a feeling that. [01:07:18] You might disagree with me. Uh, and, uh, I will, I want to have a debate with you about [01:07:23] Brett: [01:07:23] All right, we’ll talk. [01:07:25] Christina: [01:07:25] It sounds good. [01:07:26] Brett: [01:07:26] All right. Get some sleep, Christina. [01:07:28] Christina: [01:07:28] Get some sleep, Brett.

Drugs, keyboards, politics, and Microsoft Excel combined in precise proportions and gently shaken to produce an hour of conversation that will leave you saying, “that was an episode of Overtired.” Show Links crema.co (Brett’s affiliate link) @BotSentinel Panic Nova Fast food keycaps (via haroldina) Kat Maddox isEven joke kcnightfang’s keyboard An introduction to QMK (via kcnightfang) Kamala Harris Thanks Taylor Swift For Her Support – And She Wants That Cookie Recipe (via marina) Trump Reportedly Plotted Wacky Superman Stunt For Walter Reed Discharge An Excel error may have led England to under-report COVID-19 cases Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Join us on Discord! Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett and Christina-1 [00:00:00]Brett: [00:00:00] Oh, I guess you’re doing the intro this week, Christina. [00:00:03] Christina: [00:00:03] Yeah, I guess so. So I’m Christina Warren. Welcome to over-tired. How are you, Brett? [00:00:09] Brett: [00:00:09] I’m a, I am finishing off a oat milk cappuccino. I found an oat milk. You can actually froth and foam. And I’m getting really good at making them so, um, pleasant and warm on a rainy day. [00:00:25]Christina: [00:00:25] Very nice. That’s very nice. Uh, I am in typical, like this is classic overtired form because I have not slept and I am not only about to have a busy day today, but tomorrow I have. A stupid day where I have to basically do most of my regular work today. I’ll have a couple of hours maybe in the afternoon, and then I have to do for an internal event. [00:00:52] I have to do one of those overnight hosting things. [00:00:55] Brett: [00:00:55] Do you drink coffee? [00:00:56]Christina: [00:00:56] Um, yeah, [00:01:00] but [00:01:00] Brett: [00:01:00] What, what gets you through a day like today? [00:01:03]Christina: [00:01:03] Dexadrine. [00:01:05]Brett: [00:01:05] Pharmaceutical speed. Of course. [00:01:08] Christina: [00:01:08] Yeah. I mean, [00:01:10] Brett: [00:01:10] Um, so I, uh, you’re not a coffee person at all. Right. [00:01:14] Christina: [00:01:14] I mean, I drink it. I just am not like, it’s not like a thing that, like, I don’t have one of the, like, I don’t have to have it. You know what I mean? Like I enjoy it if it’s there, I’ll drink it, but I usually not going to go out of my way and make it or anything. No. [00:01:26] Brett: [00:01:26] Well for our listeners, I want to tell them about crema.co. Um, it’s this service. I don’t remember how he found it. It was probably an Instagram ad, uh, which I’m a sucker for. I hate that. Um, but it’s this, this site that sends you every day. You set the interval, but I have it every two weeks. They send me a new coffee from a playlist that I pick and they have a whole S whole interface for helping you find the coffees that you most [00:02:00] want. [00:02:00] And they source from a bunch of different, uh, roasters. And I have found since I started using it three new coffees that are better than anything copies that I’ve ever had before. So I feel like it’s worth sharing. I have an affiliate link. That’ll be in the show notes. And the deal with that is anyone who uses it gets $5 off each of their first four orders. [00:02:24] And I don’t get any money unless you keep going after four orders. So this isn’t about me. This is about me wanting you to find really good coffee and save yourself some money. [00:02:36] Christina: [00:02:36] It’s also about you because you want them to really enjoy the coffee. So they keep saying, uh, subscribe so that you can, um, rise up the pyramid and this weird multilevel marketing, uh, [00:02:48] Brett: [00:02:48] I get, I get, I get $20 one time for anyone that keeps a freaky, keeps going. [00:02:53]Christina: [00:02:53] awesome. I’m just teasing. I know that this isn’t quite a, um, [00:02:58] Brett: [00:02:58] It’s not at all. It’s just a [00:03:00] goddamn affiliate link, Christina. [00:03:02] Christina: [00:03:02] I know, I’m just, I’m, I’m making fun of you. And also the way, the way that they have it structured is very MLM. Like, but I know that this isn’t an MLM. I’m just making fun [00:03:10] Brett: [00:03:10] The [00:03:10] Christina: [00:03:10] but no, I mean, this sounds great. [00:03:12] Brett: [00:03:12] ones that drive me nuts are like, there are affiliate links that I feel dirty using, uh, that are very much, they, they feel too much like marketing and I, I can’t think of any off the top of my head cause I just don’t use those. But there are some that really try to get you to pimp out your social media accounts. [00:03:38] Just to make a few cents it’s anyway, some, if it’s a company I really support and I really like the product and they offer me an affiliate link. I’ll share it, but I’m always open about it being an affiliate link. Can’t be sneaky about those things. [00:03:53] Christina: [00:03:53] no agreed. And I mean, and honestly the good programs will like kick you out. If you’re not like Amazon will do audits. They actually did an [00:04:00] audit on me recently and I hadn’t even done anything. And it was just one of those random audit things. And they’re like, send me all of your ELLs, wherever you use stuff. [00:04:07] And I was like, here’s my Twitter account for the one time a year. I with disclosure. Share affiliate links of sales. I find on black Friday. [00:04:17] Brett: [00:04:17] My Jekyll blog automat automatically detects Amazon affiliate links in my posts and adds their standard disclaimer to the post. [00:04:25] Christina: [00:04:25] See, see, that’s good stuff. [00:04:27] Brett: [00:04:27] always do that on Twitter, just because I use the Amazon shortened URL. And I don’t always think about the fact that it’s an affiliate link. So I’ve made that mistake. [00:04:40] I just send the shortened URL for the sake of sending a shortened URL. [00:04:44] Christina: [00:04:44] Right. Although, I mean, I think that it’s one of, yeah, Twitter’s a weird one. Cause it’s like, you don’t have a lot of room to disclose, like the didn’t affiliate link is there because you’re limited to 240 characters. So I don’t [00:04:55] Brett: [00:04:55] Do you remember 120 characters? [00:04:59] Christina: [00:04:59] you mean [00:05:00] 140? [00:05:00] Brett: [00:05:00] when we were kids. [00:05:02] Christina: [00:05:02] I do. [00:05:03] Brett: [00:05:03] man. Those were the stone age. [00:05:06] Christina: [00:05:06] I know. I know. And then, then, and it’s two 80. [00:05:08] It’s not two 40 is two 80. I know. There’s the stone age when we were well, I mean, I remember when I first was on Twitter that you could actually, you know, tweet from SMS, uh, you know, just sending to four Oh four Oh, um, four or four, zero four, zero, I guess it was. And, uh, Which was always fun for me. Cause my area code on my phone number is four Oh four. [00:05:32] So, um, but yeah, like I would, I would SMS tweet from time to time and [00:05:38] Brett: [00:05:38] There were so few people on Twitter back then we used to use Twitter. I was running an ad agency at the time and we would use Twitter just to have like out of office messages. And I had a little screen set up on the door. So you could tell where all the employees were at any given time or where they said they were anyway, I wasn’t tracking anybody, but. [00:05:58] Christina: [00:05:58] No, right. Well, what was so funny is [00:06:00] that for the first like, you know, year or so, there was like just the, the feed of all the users. There was just like, The live feed of just everyone, you know? And, and, and that was how you would discover people and how you would be discovered. I know that that’s how a lot of people found me, um, was just through and I found people that way. [00:06:20] And, and that’s so weird to think about that. Something was that small, that there was just this, you know, like, you know, just open feed of everybody on the platform. Um, and, uh, now. I don’t know. I mean, it would be, it would, it would move so quickly that I don’t even know what that would look like, but yeah, exactly. [00:06:43] I’m assuming that’s why they got rid of that at a certain point. They’re like, this just doesn’t make sense anymore, but it’s, it’s fun to remember. [00:06:49] Brett: [00:06:49] Well, they added the trending section so they could curate, I mean, basically that’s what trending is. It’s the, uh, the curated version [00:07:00] of the entire feed. [00:07:01]Christina: [00:07:01] Yeah, the problem with trending is, is that, you know, it takes a while for stuff to show up and then the curated stuff can be out of date by the time you see it. So it’s good. Yeah. But it’s also, especially if it’s like really, you know, time oriented, which a lot of them are sometimes by the time you see it on trending. [00:07:19] If you’re not watching trending all the time, then you’ve like missed something because you’re like, Oh, well this happened six hours ago, you know? [00:07:25] Brett: [00:07:25] I follow, I follow a Bach detector account and I can’t remember what it’s called right now, but. When stuff trends, it does, uh, uh, audits to see how many of the tweets come from suspicious accounts. That’s always enlightening. When you find out that like half of the half of the accounts that made a topic trend are actually Russian bots. [00:07:51] It’s very enlightening. [00:07:52] Christina: [00:07:52] Yeah. I mean, well, and the thing is, is that even beyond like, obviously like the, the Russian interference, I mean, I even know. For a long time, you know, got [00:08:00] Mashable. Mashable was back in the day known as, you know, the premier social media first kind of sites and, and was a publication that really got its start by being really early on a lot of the social platforms and building credibility, both in articles that would write, you know, for PE giving people like tips on how to do stuff, but also just being an early adopter itself. [00:08:21] Like we were really, really good at that stuff. And. We, you know, um, long time there was like a, uh, you know, like a tweet meme button that then became like the official Twitter button that would show how many shares his story had. And within a few seconds of us sharing a story out on our main account, it would have, you know, 40, 50, maybe a hundred, you know, shares or retweets. [00:08:45] It’s just like almost instantly. And the reason that happens spend was because there were going way back. There were people who would just set up their, you know, certain like, uh, you know, kind of pro bots. They weren’t [00:08:58] Brett: [00:08:58] networks. Yeah. [00:09:00] [00:08:59] Christina: [00:08:59] Exactly to, to just go ahead and automatically reshare and retweet anything that we had. [00:09:04] And like, that was just, this wasn’t anything that like, I don’t, I don’t think it was anything that Pete like, engineering specifically. I don’t think he obviously told people to stop, but I don’t think it was anything that he like purposefully, like wanted people to do, but it was just something that continued and it got to the point that. [00:09:20] As the site changed and shifted its direction. A number of times while I was there, that was still something that happened. And I would have to kind of explain to people who didn’t have like the background. I didn’t remember. Cause like I remember when mashville started, I didn’t work there, but I remembered when it started and I might have to kind of explain that I was like, no, there’s this whole network of just nonexistent people who will automatically reshare and retweet stuff. [00:09:47] And that’s how we can get this volume. And. Certainly it helped us, uh, with certain things, like we would be part of the trending hierarchy, so to speak, you know, versus other things, just [00:10:00] because the number of people who would be, you know, giving our stuff, lift versus me, be someone else, then Buzzfeed kicked our ass on every single level. [00:10:08] Uh, and, uh, you know, um, which. A game, what game? Game respects game, right? I’m not, I’m not gonna, like, I’m not gonna, I’m not mad at it, but, uh, they, they dominated Facebook in a way that we never did. And the nominated, like the, the way that they would do sponsored kind of content in a way that we never did. [00:10:27] And they, they just saw it and they also just had more money and, and raise money earlier. And they just kicked her ass, frankly, they were just better, but there was like, there was still like a, a. Old vestige. It’s gone now of like, you know, people who would automatically retweet Mashable stuff, like regardless of what it was. [00:10:48] And you could always tell because they would, they would use like hashtags for some of the various tags and the posts and stuff. I was like, Oh, I see how this has been set [00:10:55] Brett: [00:10:55] I got, [00:10:56] Christina: [00:10:56] be one of those [00:10:56] Brett: [00:10:56] I got ed mentioned in one of those, you know, like [00:11:00] these sites that write stupid word, press articles, and then promote the hell out of them. On social media. I got at mentioned in one of those, like a couple years ago. And I still get flooded with their bot retweets. It’s annoying, by the way I found this, uh, this bought Sentinel is the Twitter account. [00:11:19] I follow, uh, it’s at bought Sentinel and, uh, it basically just keeps track of all the bots and, and how they affect trending traffic. So if you’re curious, it’s a fun, fun account to follow [00:11:34] Christina: [00:11:34] Hell yeah. [00:11:35]Brett: [00:11:35] speaking of bots. Seems like a health corner. God, I’m good at transitions. Segues are kind of a, I would say I don’t want to hero might be a strong word, but, um, right. [00:11:48]I’m missing yoga to record this this morning. I skipped yoga and do the thing with indoor classes right now is they’re very [00:12:00] space limited. So when I skip it actually means that someone else can go, there’s like a waiting list to get into these classes. And I go for free because I live with the yoga instructor. [00:12:13] Um, but she uses me as a foil. I sit in the front row right in front of her, meaning any spit and, and her breathing while she’s teaching class, I absorb, which is fine. Cause we, you know, Uh, isolate together. Um, but when I’m gone, that means that somewhat, if someone wants to take my spot, they have to risk that added risk of being in front of someone who is, you know, breathing heavier than usual and, and deeper. [00:12:46] And anyway, I, I, it’s a mixed, it’s a mixed bag is what I’m saying. [00:12:53] Christina: [00:12:53] well, I thank you for your sacrifice and, uh, I think your, your partner for her sacrifice and [00:13:00] also, you know, the person who’s getting to go to yoga today, which great for them, but also, uh, guests. They didn’t know what they were getting in for. They’re like, well, the good news is you get to go to yoga. The bad news is you, uh, you’ll be closer than maybe normal to the instructor. [00:13:19] Brett: [00:13:19] See the thing is though, um, like L works for, um, uh, home and community options and she works with developmentally challenged and, um, by nature of very vulnerable. Crowd. So her daily, she she’s out working, but she wears a mask and a face shield and they avoid contact between the employees. They don’t know, they can’t take breaks at the same time. [00:13:49] There’s like all these protocols in place. So as far as yoga teachers go, she’s probably one of the safest you could have breathing on you. [00:13:58]Christina: [00:13:58] well, that’s good. [00:14:00] [00:14:00] Brett: [00:14:00] Weirdly, they don’t let us bring blocks. We can bring our own mats, but we can’t bring blocks. This is a studio rule that we are, we are protesting. This should be overturned. [00:14:10] Like what’s the difference. If you bring a block and you’re the only person who touches it and the block leaves with you, how is that increasing the risk of infection? You tell me, tell me this. How is that? It’s just not fair. [00:14:24] Christina: [00:14:24] No. I mean, honestly, I would think that a mat would be. More susceptible [00:14:29] Brett: [00:14:29] Totally. Cause your face is going to be on it the whole time. [00:14:33] Christina: [00:14:33] Well, your face is going to be on a bit also, like you don’t have any like, like if you’re bringing your own math and you don’t know where it’s been before, you don’t know, you know how often it’s been cleaned or disinfected or whatever, you know what I mean? [00:14:45] Brett: [00:14:45] I do. [00:14:46] Christina: [00:14:46] in contact with the mat, I mean, you do, but like the other people in the studio don’t yeah, [00:14:50] Brett: [00:14:50] It’s. Yeah. I mean, it would be the same as a block though. I mean, well, except you’re not, you’re not generally breathing on a block is to me the difference. [00:15:00] [00:15:00] Christina: [00:15:00] Well, right. No, but this is my point. Like, I’m not understanding like the difference here, because in either case, like, I don’t know. Yeah. I’m with you. I feel like you should do make it consistent. Yeah. If you’re going to block the blocks, then the block, the mass. [00:15:13] Brett: [00:15:13] So next health corner topic. [00:15:16] Christina: [00:15:16] Yes. [00:15:17] Brett: [00:15:17] I, so I stayed out on my like bipolar swings and I’ve actually been stable for longer than, uh, than my stable periods have lasted over the last few months. So fingers crossed doing well there, but that I’ve realized I, I, when I’m stable is when I realized how ADHD I am. Like, you don’t think about it when you’re manic or super depressed. [00:15:43] But when you hit that stable point and realize you still can’t get work done, it becomes very apparent that you are a, you are, you are also ADHD. Dual diagnoses are fun. [00:15:55]Christina: [00:15:55] For sure. For sure. Sure. Yeah. No, that’s a similar thing with me, although I don’t obviously don’t have to [00:16:00] like the mania swings, but there are times where I’m like, Oh yeah, the ADHD is really bad right now. Hmm. [00:16:07] Brett: [00:16:07] ask, should I ask to try Dexedrine? I’ve never taken Dexedrine. [00:16:12]Christina: [00:16:12] Um, okay. So if you’ve had Vyvanse, it is Vyvanse, but without whatever the module is that they give Vyvanse so that you can’t sort it. So, but it was, here’s the weird thing I’ve tried Vyvanse, I’ve tried it twice and maybe three times and each time I’ve tried it, I’ve had like a bad reaction. It just has not worked for me. [00:16:34] It’s just been this weird thing, whereas Dexedrine does. Um, but. I don’t know if there is anything. I mean, I think that’s just a weird thing with my body. Um, and it’s, it’s the sort of thing where it’s been the same reaction each time and I’ve done it over the course of years. And it’s one of those things where I think the second time, like I’d even forgotten what, the reason I hadn’t gone on at the first time. [00:16:55] And then I was like, okay, Oh, yeah. Now I remember I’m new [00:17:00] vigil is the same way. There’s just like a weird, a thing that it does that Provigil didn’t do. I don’t know. Um, Dexedrine is good and if you can get access to it, it’s great, but it’s not demonstrably different than, uh, Adderall, I don’t think. And it’s, it’s just, you know, Vyvanse that could be theoretically abused. [00:17:18] I’ve never used [00:17:19] Brett: [00:17:19] Goal. I’ve just found that, uh, that [00:17:21] Christina: [00:17:21] Oh, I know. [00:17:22] Brett: [00:17:22] Vyvanse has always been because, because my paperwork says that I’ve had problems with addiction in the past. It’s easier for me to get drugs that are, uh, abuse resistant. Uh, people are more likely to give them to me, but it’s been 20 years since I was hooked on anything. [00:17:44] Um, And, and I think they’re, they’re forgiving enough. They let me try, um, conservative for a while. [00:17:51] Christina: [00:17:51] Yeah, I was going to ask. I was, I I’ve never done consider I think, uh, I think granted, but I’ve never even considered it. I’ve actually, other than my. Four ways with w with [00:18:00] Vyvanse a few times, I’ve just always been on Dexedrine. So, but it’s been for me, it’s just been one of those things. I’m like, well, this works well enough. [00:18:06] Uh, you know, and, and I have, like, my shrink has told me, I think that we’re going to talk like next time we talk, we might look at some other options, but in general, I’ve, it’s been one of those things where I’ve just kind of been like, well, Don’t rock the boat. You know, like if it works, it works that said there are still times. [00:18:25] It’s not like it’s perfect. There are still times when I’m like Holy feeling ADHD, even without even taking the medicine. But it obviously is, is significantly better than when I’m not on it. So [00:18:36] Brett: [00:18:36] Yeah, no, I, I, I can still get, I can still get myself to focus when I have the Vyvanse in a way that I definitely can not without it. So, um, it’s better, better than nothing. Have you tried Nova yet? [00:18:53] Christina: [00:18:53] I have, I was part of the beta and then I bought it to support, um, uh, panic. Cause I love panic. [00:19:00] Um, I like that. It’s a native editor. [00:19:04] Brett: [00:19:04] Talk about this. Cause I remember we went off on a, we went off on a V of a visual code tangent. [00:19:12] Christina: [00:19:12] we did. Yeah. We talked about it a little bit and I, at that point, I don’t know if you would use it [00:19:17] Brett: [00:19:17] I still haven’t. I’m still curious if it’s worth me trying out. [00:19:21] Christina: [00:19:21] I mean, I think you should try it. [00:19:23] It’s pretty, I don’t know my issue with it right now. There are a couple of things. One, the, you know, the extension, um, library is just it’s, it’s [00:19:33] Brett: [00:19:33] it’s in its infancy. [00:19:35] Christina: [00:19:35] It’s definitely as an infancy. And the thing is, is that I think that they could do certain things that would potentially like if they would do a thing that would like if they would create like a way to easily convert a vs code extension. [00:19:51] Into a Nova extension. I’m not saying open vs code extensions. Like that would be ideal, but I don’t think they would want to go to that model. And that would probably help at [00:20:00] least, you know, the process of reporting over some of those things, especially extensions that are, are open sourced and are licensed under the GPL or, or, or, you know, another, um, you know, uh, copyleft license that would allow that sort of thing. [00:20:13] Um, but you know, I think the issue is, is that it’s just like, You’re so behind and that’s okay. There is a marked two extension that someone broke [00:20:23] Brett: [00:20:23] Yeah, guy just contacted me last night about that. [00:20:27]Christina: [00:20:27] Which is cool. And there are some, you know, language things like I have some stuff that’s installed. Um, I have, um, uh, uh, prettier. [00:20:35] I have, you know, go extension a dot ENB extension. One for Docker files. Uh, one for TypeScript, one for view. Um, you know, a lot of your stuff is there, but some of the other things that you’re going to do just aren’t, I will say one of the things that’s frustrating to me is that the process of getting to like load from your profile is more common Plex than it should be in terms of your [00:21:00] different settings and what not for your terminal stuff. [00:21:01] Like, I understand why they have that set the way that they do, but it’s, um, I don’t know. It’s, it’s, it’s more complicated than perhaps it should be, um, in terms of getting like your, your, your shell kind of customized. Um, but, um, [00:21:19] Brett: [00:21:19] I’ll just say, I don’t know, trust pretty text editors. That’s like the one thing I don’t need a protects editor to be as pretty. And also when I first started using textbook, the first time I opened it up, I didn’t know what to do with it because I was used to pretty text editors. And once I got totally into text mate, ever since then, I kind of expect the text mate aesthetic from whatever I’m working in. Which is why sublime texts and I get along so well. [00:21:50]Christina: [00:21:50] Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and I think that, I mean, that’s one of the interesting things about vs code that was really smart is that they did actually make it easy, at least for themes and for some other stuff, like they actually [00:22:00] had like, um, I S I think it’s a, uh, There might’ve been a note thing, but it was, might’ve been Python. [00:22:06] I remember what, but there’s like a way a conversion process where you could convert like a text made extension, like a bundle into a vs code, uh, extension. Cause I did that a couple of times with some things early on with my vs code stuff. Yeah. And, and, uh, you know, they accepted, you know, the, the texts make themes, you know, made it, made it easy to convert those over and whatnot and kind of, you know, used a lot of those formats, which I thought was smart because it was like, yeah, go, go with what. [00:22:30] Exists for the community, you know, because sublime had adopted that as well. So obviously like what the, how code extensions now work is different, but like the process of bringing your old stuff over was pretty good. Um, and, um, a lot of people really liked Adam. Um, I thought Adam was pretty, but it never was really a big fan of it to be honest. [00:22:53] Whereas, whereas vs code, I do really enjoy. You know, and now that’s just kinda my, my, my default that I use [00:23:00] for everything. And part of that is also because I can do stuff for work. With visual studio code that I wouldn’t be able to do for Nova without a term, this amount of work. And it wouldn’t work the same way. [00:23:13] It’s the same thing. Even for sublime, you know, stuff that, uh, you know, the Azure plugin and, and the way that some of the remote stuff works and the way that it can just access my various resources and create things awesome. And I wouldn’t be able to do that without a lot more dedicated work. [00:23:30] Brett: [00:23:30] Code is the first electron style app that I’ve ever, uh, seriously considered. [00:23:37]Christina: [00:23:37] Yeah, no, I mean, I think that I we’ve talked about this before many, many times over the years, but that team has worked really hard. Like it’s not perfect of course, but I think that they’ve done as much as they can as anything else to make it as native life of an experience as possible. I mean, and, and in, in fairness, you know, um, Sublime isn’t native eater, you [00:24:00] know, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s not a native Mac [00:24:03] Brett: [00:24:03] It still works with all of my system services and everything though. [00:24:06] Christina: [00:24:06] Yeah, totally, totally. And I mean, and that’s something that obviously is going to be not something you can, uh, although you can do, you can do, um, services with code, um, yeah. [00:24:15] Brett: [00:24:15] that, that, that that’s a selling point for me. [00:24:18] Christina: [00:24:18] Yeah, you can do services there. And they’ve actually recently just updated the settings menu to be even more accessible for stuff. [00:24:24] What is nice about it? Which you would appreciate is obviously they’ve made it pretty now, but if you want to edit your settings, you can actually just edit a Jason file or you can go through, you know, the, the, the gooey sort of interface, which, [00:24:39] Brett: [00:24:39] I, I like codes gooey. I like the way that you can edit a Jason file and like you can load up the. A default settings and then just click a little icon and it copies the default setting into your custom files. So there you can, you can edit it then that’s super handy. Um, [00:25:00] anyway, so you’re you, you still haven’t joined the discord. [00:25:04]Christina: [00:25:04] I’ll do it this week. I promise. I’m [00:25:07] Brett: [00:25:07] Here’s an, here’s an example of what you’re missing. Um, Harold Dena, Harold, Chris, Harold, posted these, um, fast food, key caps and [00:25:18] Christina: [00:25:18] I’m looking at this. It’s amazing. [00:25:19] Brett: [00:25:19] yeah, so there’ll be a link in the show notes for anyone who’s not deigned the discord worthy of their time yet, but it is a key cap set that is a 3d. Food court. Basically the space bar is like a six foot subway sandwich [00:25:40] Christina: [00:25:40] Yeah, [00:25:40] Brett: [00:25:40] and there’s like a big Mac and fries and tacos and pizza. [00:25:47] It is completely unusable. [00:25:50] Christina: [00:25:50] completely. There’s like an Altoids tin of her for one of the modifier keys. I mean, it is, it is fantastic. There’s one. I don’t even know what it is, but it looks like it’s like an [00:26:00] open styrofoam box of some sort. Yeah, this is completely unusable, but it is [00:26:04] Brett: [00:26:04] Well, there is a video underneath it, of it. Here’s a typing test of the food keyboard and you can see the person who made it to, um, [00:26:15] Christina: [00:26:15] she’s awesome. Uh, good for her like this, this person that this is a tiny kid cap maker person who I’m now going to follow on Twitter. Cause this is just, I’m just a big fan of this. Um, Yeah, I love that she had, I love that she had to add this as like a caveat, a couple things. It’s an art project, not a board to type on regularly. [00:26:36] I mean, you can, but it’s hard. You know, highest I hit was around 50 words per minute, which that’s way faster than I ever would have anticipated on this. And she was like, this took me almost an entire year. You know, suggestions came from tick tock comments. And lastly, you know, she puts in some for other things, but the fact that should have put that caveat there. [00:26:55] All the, I just can’t I, this girl who take talk, she [00:27:00] must have had so much people like being really excited. And then on Twitter, you know, you know, that it was like the well actually nerds, like, and they’re all men, they’re always men who we’re like mansplaining to her, how this was bad and how this things shouldn’t be a thing. [00:27:16] And it’s like, Bitch. This is an art project. She knows. Shut up. You can’t build this, you can’t do this shut up. Like you don’t need to tell her this. Like, um, yeah, I got in and the person meant well, but I was, I made some sort of, kind of like joke about something, um, last week and. I was I, yeah, I was making a joke about something and I, I was referring to SQL colloquially the way that one should. [00:27:48] And they were like, well, actually, you know, SQL is the language. And what you’re referring to is like a RD. Um, you know, uh, um, a BS, like seriously, I’m aware, don’t like, explain [00:28:00] this to me. This is a joke. And like somebody jumping into my DMS to explain like shit to me that I’m like, Oh my God, do you, do you really need to do this? [00:28:09] Do you really need to. [00:28:10] Brett: [00:28:10] as a female developer and I’m forgetting the Twitter account now, but at one point she posted the, a joke that most of her tweets are like developer jokes, but she posted this one. It was an image of a very long if then L statement, uh, for determining if a number was even or odd. So it would be like, if number equals two I’ll, if number equals three, I’ll save now. [00:28:37] And she posted it and clearly a joke, but it was probably a year ago she posted it and just last week, she’s like, I still get people sliding into my DMS to explain like mod module operators and whatnot to me, modulars. [00:28:54] Christina: [00:28:54] and you’re like, eh, she’s like, right. Like, that was why it was funny. That this, this was why [00:29:00] I did this because it was funny. Um, [00:29:02] Brett: [00:29:02] you feel like you’re being helpful. You’re also being obtuse. [00:29:07] Christina: [00:29:07] well, that’s exactly it. It’s like the thing is, is like I know the person, like who, you know, slid into my DMS and, and was, you know, explaining something to me that did not need explaining. I was like, I, I aware that this is. Someone who is trying to be nice and I’m not going to come down to part on this. I know that the intent is good, but at the same time, it was the most eye-rolling thing that said there have been a couple of times where someone, someone has like slid in and they’ve been like, so you use this word incorrectly. I’m actually completely fine with that because if I did use it incorrectly and if, I didn’t know, especially if it’s one of those like weird grammar thing, cause I’m usually really good with the grammar and the vocab. But if I’m. Wrong on it. Like, I want to know, like, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not upset to be corrected if I’m wrong or, and I’m actually right. [00:29:51] Very happy to have people like teach me new things. What bothers me is when something is clearly a joke and then someone’s like, can’t [00:30:00] grasp the concept of humor. Or it sounds like not to the extent that, that, um, this, this girl did, but I had definitely had, um, you know, senses where people take great links to explain my own jokes to me. And I’m like, I’m yeah, I know it was really clever. Wasn’t it? You’ve spent all this time deconstructing this, but, um, that’s, that’s why I wrote what I wrote anyway. It’s just, yeah. [00:30:29] Brett: [00:30:29] yeah. Um, Oh, I had a thought and then I lost it. Oh, well, yeah, those are the kinds of things that I don’t even need to say out loud. I could just move on to the next thing. We have a, we have a list for this. [00:30:42] Christina: [00:30:42] We do have a whole list. Yeah. Casey night things keep, um, a keyboard. [00:30:48] Brett: [00:30:48] also from the discord, [00:30:49] Christina: [00:30:49] discord I was going to say, no, this is awesome. [00:30:52] Brett: [00:30:52] this looks entirely usable and I didn’t it’s this it’s an ergonomic keyboard. [00:30:57] I’m not sure exactly what the layout [00:31:00] is, but, uh, it, other than being , um, it has these knobs on it and I had never seen these knobs [00:31:08] Christina: [00:31:08] same that this, this is what I’m, this is what I’m curious [00:31:11] Brett: [00:31:11] So if you go to the next link on the list, uh, which is kind of an introduction to QM, MK, which is the kind of O S that runs something like the ergo docs keyboard, and you scroll down about halfway, you’ll see a section called rotary and coders, and it’s a knob that you can both twist and push. [00:31:35] So it can function as like a key press. Or you can use it to do things like navigate your cursor through text or scroll your screen or whatever you need. [00:31:45] Christina: [00:31:45] Oh, okay. This is awesome. And actually, this is hilarious because okay, this, this, this asshole, this just utter, like idiot wrote a really, really, really bad tweet. Uh, I think it was last week that everybody kind of like railed him for where he was like [00:32:00] real developers, don’t use a mouse. And, and, and if you do, you’re never going to be a senior. [00:32:07] And it was one of those things where everybody just, just dragged him to eternity. And I was like, uh, you know, real developers don’t use QWERTY. I was like, you know, like, um, um, you know, uh, coders, Devor, Acker, or whatever, or get the fuck out. Like people were just dragging him, but looking at something like this and like, Oh yeah, see, This, this was, this would be what real developers would, would use your rotary and coder, because you could use the wheel to scroll through your menu options so that you could, um, you could, you could use just the keyboard and not the mouse, but still be lead enough to, to actually one day become a senior. [00:32:44] Brett: [00:32:44] Well, so people, people who are, anti-Muslim almost always VIM people and then people don’t accept pretty much anything other than VIM. Like nothing is valid, [00:32:57] Christina: [00:32:57] Well, and, and, well, that’s the funny [00:33:00] thing about this guy is he’s a JavaScript developer, so he’s not, it he’s not event. Like he, he brags about like being like top whatever percent on like stack overflow. It’s like, okay. Um, you know, weird flex, but okay. Um, in just, you, you can tell from his other things, like not of them person, like not, not even like, probably couldn’t even tell you the origins. [00:33:19] Of of, of, you know, VI, right? Like wouldn’t, wouldn’t even know where to start. Like doesn’t even know which is, you know, being elitist and, um, like, you know, just like what’s a gatekeeping for no purpose. And yeah, I like, there are plenty of people who I’m sure, like detests having a mouse of any sort or menus, and that is fine. [00:33:40] And, but I think that like, most them people that I know anyway, there’s some of them who are really. Outspoken about this is the only true way to operate, but I, most people I know like that are never going to tell other people, if you don’t do things the way I do it, you’re not a real anything, [00:33:56] Brett: [00:33:56] have a certain amount of shame. [00:33:58]Christina: [00:33:58] yeah. [00:33:59] I [00:34:00] mean, now, now, now, now, now Emacs people are different, right? Like Emacs people are, this is where people are [00:34:05] Brett: [00:34:05] Erica Sadoon, shout out to Erica Sadoon. [00:34:08] Christina: [00:34:08] Shallow. And she’s awesome. She’s like the one nice Emacs person. I know. Um, because, because most people, like if they use org mode, like they will never shut the fuck up about the fact that you use work mode. [00:34:19] And I look I’ve, I’ve tried to kind of get into that. I’ve watched so many videos and like, there are interesting things about that to me. And then I just, this is where my ADHD breaks in and I’m just like, you know what? I have better. Things to do. Also, I enjoy a good gooey, also the mouse predates tech senators. [00:34:39] So shut the fuck up. Um, you know, like, like honestly, like Douglas Englebright like called and like told you to go to hell, but I’m completely fine for people who want to just use the keyboard for everything like that spine. And actually I think this rotary and coder thing is pretty awesome because it could allow you to just have through stuff. [00:34:58] I’m just looking through this, you know, [00:35:00] scroll through windows selected results. [00:35:02] Brett: [00:35:02] What’d they call the little red button on a think book that J J button or whatever. [00:35:07] Christina: [00:35:07] yeah, the, the nipple. Yeah, [00:35:09] Brett: [00:35:09] Yeah. That’s that would be the, uh, the colloquial term for it. Um, yeah, like that, that always made sense to me, like a little track pointer. Well, and so on my ultimate hacking keyboard for years now, they have promised these thumb modules. [00:35:24] There are little, um, Pin attachments next to the, the thumb keys on the split keyboard that will eventually be for, uh, things like thumb, track pads and, uh, track wheels and, uh, extra key clusters. And I am looking forward to this cause honestly, once I’m on my keyboard in a text editor, I do generally avoid taking my hands off to go to the mouse. [00:35:53] So I kind of get where this guy was coming from. I’m not pretentious about it, though. For me, it’s a constant [00:36:00] challenge. [00:36:00] Christina: [00:36:00] Well, right. And the thing is, is that most people are going to be like that I’m the, I’m the same way. Like once I’m kind of in like my mode, like I would prefer to just stay on the keyboard, which is why keyboard shortcuts exists for almost every program. But to try to kind of imply, like, if you ever use a mouse, you’re not really whatever it’s like, dude, seriously, like go fuck [00:36:21] Brett: [00:36:21] I’ve always wondered what the difference between a senior and a junior developer really was turns out it’s your mouse. [00:36:28] Christina: [00:36:28] Yeah, it’s, it’s your mouse and, uh, and, uh, it’s uh, yeah. Um, it is the fact that like, I don’t know if you have to, if you have to like tell people like these are the things we’ll do, or you’ll never be a senior chances are, you’re not a senior yourself just saying like, um, But, yeah, I mean, fuck that guy, but, uh, this, this, uh, divorce keyword, which God, you know, scares me. [00:36:54] I, but I like the placement of these, um, rotary, um, in [00:36:59] Brett: [00:36:59] Yeah, [00:37:00] I was trying to figure out if I would like, I would have instinctively put them closer to my thumbs. [00:37:06] Christina: [00:37:06] same, but I kind of like where they are when I’m kind of thinking about it. [00:37:10]Brett: [00:37:10] I’ll take, I’ll take that. If you, if you agree with it. I’m just trying to figure out. So it’s a pinky, [00:37:18] Christina: [00:37:18] I mean, [00:37:18] Brett: [00:37:18] key really? Right? Like you’re going to [00:37:20] Christina: [00:37:20] He wrote, well, I mean, honestly, I haven’t typed on divorce back in so many years cause I just, I can’t do it. Um, I mean I could, but here’s the problem again, the ADHD, but also it’s like, all right, the time that it would take for me to have to like retrain [00:37:36] Brett: [00:37:36] learning curves. [00:37:37] Christina: [00:37:37] Right. And, and it’s just like, okay, how much are you going to lose from productivity and other stuff? And then it’s just, if you use anybody else’s machine, which in old days, I do like, it’d be a nightmare. I think it was bad enough when I was doing stuff. Um, for, um, uh, uh, Microsoft ignite the tour, we would go to other, we would go to certain countries and we ran into this a couple of times where I would be using a foreign keyboard. [00:37:59] Right. [00:38:00] But it wouldn’t be set, you know, to the English, you know, default to be using whatever its thing was. And then I’m trying to from like, cause I’m a touch typist, you know, navigate NBS code with this keyboard, you know, I’m on a Mac and all of a sudden, like my, my keys are not in the right places. And, and certain things like, like certain, like, like, like where the, where the Tilda is and where even like certain letters are, would be like slightly off. [00:38:27] And I’m like, Um, well then, yeah, this is a problem. Like we would figure it out in rehearsals and after we figured it out, because it wasn’t just me, other people had issues with it too. Like we had to like make it a thing where like we had to travel with a U S keyboard because you couldn’t always buy them in, um, Uh, the, those places we can always source them and then that, but that like actually gave me a lot of it for people who are from, you know, certain countries in Europe who come over who the U S and by seven they’re like, why the hell is my keyboard not correct? [00:38:55] And I’m like, yeah, good, good call. Right. And that’s, and that’s when it’s just a couple of keys. [00:39:00] So to have to take it to the next level of being like, fundamentally different, um, I don’t know. So looking at this, I’m with you, I think that I would want them where my thumbs would be, but. I could also see this being something where maybe for this person’s use cases, maybe it works. [00:39:18] I would probably they’ll put it like where the arrow keys are on, on this, um, kind of set up, um, like, uh, uh, like the February or the, you know, inter Keizer or whatever, the cases like the inter you know, the, the, uh, exactly where your thumbs would be. That’s where I would do it on the lower [00:39:35] Brett: [00:39:35] We’ll uh, we’ll ask Casey night Fang to defend the decisions in discord after this episode comes out. [00:39:41] Christina: [00:39:41] we will. Yeah. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll ask last for their defense. Um, I will say that, that I, I definitely prefer them to be on the bottom road then on the, the guide, they had them at the top. That’s weird to me. Like, [00:39:54]Brett: [00:39:54] Yeah. [00:39:54] Christina: [00:39:54] mean, I can see why you would have it there if you were going to have it like as a volume knob or something else. [00:39:58] But to me, like, [00:40:00] If I’m going to have to take my hands off or do a certain motion where I’d have to use more than my thumb and actually use my fingers to twist. Then at that point I might as well use like a mouse. [00:40:11] Brett: [00:40:11] you know what I get it like I’m I’m I have my hands on my keyboard right now and I’m imagining like, I Mike there on this keyboard, anyone who has you’ll have to go look at the picture, but there’s a, the thumb cluster is complex enough that adding another key to that would be a non ergonomic. And I’m on my keyboard. [00:40:38] If I move my pinkies down, I totally have the dexterity there to scroll. That’s it’s actually a perfect placement. I’m sorry I ever done a graded this, this placement. [00:40:49] Christina: [00:40:49] Yeah. No, honestly, that does make sense. Now that I’m thinking about the same way. Um, cause I don’t have a split keyboard, but I’m thinking about like when I have you. Yeah. Um, [00:41:00] yeah, that’s a good [00:41:00] Brett: [00:41:00] I hadn’t. I had this humiliating experience once, um, I had traveled for AOL. I had traveled to San Francisco and I was with a new team and they were kind of, we were feeling each other out as far as like, are they any good at this? And they asked me it wasn’t a test. It was just one of those things where I needed to make a change to a module. [00:41:28] And. They were watching and I felt like they were, they were kind of testing, testing me out. And I was sitting down at a keyboard that wasn’t customized the way mine is customized. Um, I’m using them completely not set up the way that I had mine all tweaked to set up. So I’m hitting, first of all, like I use caps lock as escape. [00:41:51] So. Everything I do. I’m hitting the wrong key. And then all of my leader shortcuts were wrong. And I was, [00:42:00] I just felt like a buffoon and I kept explaining I’m just not used to these keyboards. And I felt like I was making excuses and ultimately it led to me quitting my job there. No, that’s not why, but. [00:42:12] Christina: [00:42:12] No, that would be a dumb reason to quit. Cause I think we’ve all run into that. Um, cause actually, cause I’ve run into that too, where I have used somebody else’s machine actually ran into an instance. Once I would have a bunch of customized shortcuts, a bunch of a bunch of. No macros and stuff built in for demos and just things to speed things up. [00:42:28] And I had a laptop break on me before a session and before a talk. And so I had to use another machine and all of my shortcuts aren’t there, all my macros aren’t there. You know, all of my customizations are gone. Like my dot files. Aren’t aren’t there. Like I don’t have, you know, my PA you know what I mean? [00:42:47] Like everything was off. And it was one of those things where again, like I’m now doing this live in front of like, 4,000 people. Oh my God, dammit. They are going to think I’m the biggest idiot. And I don’t know how to, how to type or, or use my [00:43:00] tools. And it’s like, no, I know what I’m doing. The problem is everything that I’ve ever had customized is gone. [00:43:06] And I’m now having to recreate wait this in a way that I, I haven’t, and, and, you know, there are certain demos. If you do them enough times. You get them down Pat, to a point and you have at time to a certain way. And it was after that incident, actually that, uh, what I started doing was recording a customized and because this is how extra I am. [00:43:26] Okay. We would encourage people to like, just have a, a recorded copy of, of the demo. So if there was an internet connection, so then you could talk through it. My thing though, was that if I did that, people would notice that the time was offered. The date was offered that the other things were wrong. So I would do a separate one for each and every city I was in to be customed to that specific market and area so that it would not be a weird thing because I didn’t want it to [00:43:53] Brett: [00:43:53] what you want to do is use like a macro recorder. Something that can record your mouse, clicks in your [00:44:00] keystrokes and then just have it run live and pretend to type while you’re doing it. [00:44:06] Christina: [00:44:06] see, that would be perfect. Yeah, no, that, that would be great. [00:44:09] Brett: [00:44:09] you imagine getting good at Casey night? Thanks keyboard. And then having to sit down at someone else’s regular QWERTY keyboard. [00:44:16] Christina: [00:44:16] see that that is actually my idea of hell. It would be too. This is why I could never have Casey knifings keyboard because Casey and I thing I would love to hear from you. We will talk about this in the discord. You don’t need to defend yourself because we’ve both agreed that the way that you [00:44:31] Brett: [00:44:31] We’ve come around. [00:44:32] Christina: [00:44:32] not we are, we are in full support of this. [00:44:34] But what I would love to hear from you is. Are you able to use any other keyboard whatsoever at all? Like, because that would be my biggest fear would be like, I honestly think this is the reason why I haven’t. I mean, I I’ve done like the hacking thing where like I built a keyboard, but like, is the standard Cordy kind of style, like as this is the standard, like Mac, you know, layout, um, cause it’s, it’s problematic enough for me when I switched to [00:45:00] a windows machine and I have. [00:45:03] There’s a program called auto hot key that I have set up to remap. We’re certain keys are so that I don’t have to, uh, My muscle memory is good enough for control that I usually am like instinctive based on what operating system I’m in. I can like if I’m in Linux or windows, then like I know where control is versus, you know, on, um, uh, you know, uh, command on Mac. [00:45:25] Like, so I’m usually like my muscle memory is usually contextually good enough that way, but there are other things that are different enough that it’s like, I do have, uh, uh, auto hot key scripts to remap things. So that. They’re consistent. And again, this is one of those things where if I use someone else’s machine I’m like completely lost and that’s for something minor. [00:45:46] So I I’d be very curious to know, uh, you know, case I think can use anyone else’s like keyboard whatsoever, or if it’s just like, do you, I don’t know. I would probably just, I would probably just travel with it [00:46:00] or, I mean, it’s so beautiful. I don’t know if I’d travel with that exact one, but I would travel with some sort of. [00:46:05] You know, divorce. Fuck like customized thing. [00:46:08] Brett: [00:46:08] So dear listeners, if you would like to, uh, to weigh in on this debate and tell us about your crazy keyboard, come join us in discord. In the show notes, I’m going to make a hard pivot and this is going to be awesome because I’m going to hit politics and Taylor Swift at the same time. [00:46:26] Christina: [00:46:26] I love this so much. Yep. [00:46:28] Brett: [00:46:28] So, uh, Taylor Swift for her first ever political endorsement has endorsed Joe Biden received personal thank yous from both Camila and Joe Biden. [00:46:40] And, uh, she baked cookies. [00:46:43]Christina: [00:46:43] She did and they look great. They look great. And this is her first presidential endorsement. She did actually. No, no, no, no. Cause laugh. Cause it was a big deal. When she came out against, uh, the, the person who was running against, uh, Marsha Blackburn. [00:46:56] Brett: [00:46:56] Um, yeah. I vaguely recall this. [00:46:59] Christina: [00:46:59] Oh, [00:47:00] um, seen her documentary yet, so, but you still need to watch. So this was actually a really important and pivotal part of her documentary, where she got in like a fight with her father and like one of her business managers who were basically telling her not to be political and to like, not talk about her things. [00:47:14] And she’s like, basically in tears talking about all the horrible things that Marsha Blackburn does. And she was like, I can’t not say anything and yeah. And I’ve, I’ve, you know, haven’t said things before and you know, like, I, I can’t not say anything and that didn’t work. Um, uh, Marshall black room was still reelected. [00:47:31] Although there was something like a record number of people registered to vote after she tweeted something. This was two years ago, but this is the first time she’s, um, Uh, you know, come out like for, uh, for presidential candidates and, uh, yeah, she baked cookies and, and Kamel and Joe both thanked her, whoever runs the Biden, Twitter account, uh, one of his, you know, campaign people is clearly a Swifty because they were, they were saying they were like quoting song lyrics in a very fun way, which, which [00:48:00] I appreciated. [00:48:01] So [00:48:02]Brett: [00:48:02] that’s a, that’s a, that’s a fun heartwarming story. I mean, if, if, if you like Biden, it’s a heartwarming story. Otherwise you might be really angry. Taylor Swift now. [00:48:12]Christina: [00:48:12] Actually, that was the funny thing, is that when, when Trump was like, kind of asked about it, he was like, well, I like her about 20% less now or whatnot. But actually the best part was is that she, like, when she posted this thing on Instagram, she was very, very nervous. Like her, her publicist is like talking her through. [00:48:25] She’s like, okay, well, here are all the things that can happen. And he was like, you know, Trump could go after you. And she just instantly is like, Fuck that I don’t care and, and, and says, fuck, which you know, now we’ve heard her say on her album, but what we hadn’t like, this was what was great about the documentary. [00:48:40] It’s like Taylor Swift curses, which is great, but just like the instinctiveness and what she was like, I don’t give a shit, like I was. Was very, um, cause I love her so much. And that was like, see, see, I’ve had to put up with so much over the years, you know, including this podcast where we’re, we’re my, we, we, we are kind of mockingly a [00:49:00] Taylor’s with podcast. [00:49:00] Um, and uh, and I’m like, see, I feel good about, about the decisions that the people that I choose to worship, um, you know, as if they were demigods, so [00:49:10] Brett: [00:49:10] Speaking of Trump. Boom, perfect segue. [00:49:13] Christina: [00:49:13] perfect [00:49:14] Brett: [00:49:14] Perfect segue. Um, the times reported that Trump had asked at one point to. Have a Superman t-shirt on underneath his dress shirt so that when he came out, he could pretend to be frail and then suddenly rip open his shirt and be Superman. And honestly, honestly, if he had done this, I might have respected him just a little bit more. [00:49:39] Christina: [00:49:39] Yeah. He wanted to do like a Willy Wonka thing where, where he seemed frail and then just was like, you know, the TETA, um, [00:49:46] Brett: [00:49:46] Cause it would have been the Superman logo. Would have made it, uh, he would have been poking a certain amount of fun at himself and that humanizes him just a little bit to me. Maybe I [00:50:00] would have seen it as just a brazen self-aggrandizing gesture, but it’s also a pretty funny, I would have [00:50:10] Christina: [00:50:10] be really, I mean, I would have laughed. Here’s the thing. I’m still not sure having read that. If he actually. Was poking fun at himself, or if he thought that that would be something that he could really pull off, you know, all that said I do have, although I’m okay. I hate to give him any credit for this. [00:50:28] I do think that he probably has more of a sense of humor about himself than, um, I mean, there are certain things he cannot laugh at himself about like, he’s just absolutely cannot go there, but there are certain things where he can kind of make fun of himself about a little bit. And unfortunately that’s probably why so many people were. [00:50:46] Initially attracted to him because there is something humanized in about that. Like, uh, it was very upsetting to see him talk, talk to his favorite people in the world, the seniors, and tell them not to be afraid of COVID and it’s like, no, be afraid, but there was the [00:51:00] moment he was like, I don’t know if you know this I’m technically a senior. [00:51:02] Don’t tell anyone or whatever. And I was like, okay, that’s [00:51:06] Brett: [00:51:06] Well, and he came out those videos. He shot from the lawn after he got out of the hospital and he starts out with, Hey, it’s me your favorite president? I feel like he knew, I feel like he was speaking to the haters at that point. [00:51:20]Christina: [00:51:20] completely. And I have to say, see, here’s the thing. If he weren’t such a piece of shit. And if he weren’t so mega maniacal and [00:51:30] Brett: [00:51:30] Narcissistic. Yeah. [00:51:33] Christina: [00:51:33] like if he weren’t such a narcissist, those are the things that, honestly, it’s pretty funny. And. W I would never vote for the guy, but you could understand like, why, like, he, he probably like have a lot more support in a certain sense. [00:51:49] You know what I mean? Like, uh, [00:51:52] Brett: [00:51:52] well, like Obama had a sense of humor. Obama had a self deprecating sense of humor. He understood, uh, how, [00:52:00] how people saw him across the spectrum. Uh, and he would play to [00:52:04] Christina: [00:52:04] did too. Bill [00:52:05] Brett: [00:52:05] Yeah, for sure. For sure. [00:52:07] Christina: [00:52:07] bill Clinton, bill Cullen made fun of himself with the cheeseburgers and really played up his silliness, frankly, because it’s like the guys from Arkansas, but like he, you know, went to really prestigious universities, graduated at the top of his class smart mother fucker. [00:52:19] Right. But like would definitely play up the whole hillbilly aspect. Um, Hillary, obviously no sense of humor. [00:52:26] Brett: [00:52:26] Well, she wasn’t allowed to, like, she would make, she would make jabs. She would say witty things, but they would be taken because she was a woman. They would be taking it as way more vitriolic than they should have been. [00:52:40] Christina: [00:52:40] agreed. Well, because she’s a woman in Austin. So just because of her own kind of Hilary ness, right. Like I, like, I look, I supported her actually like, like both times, like I, um, I mean, I voted for Obama and I was happy to, but what I initially in that era, like I actually supported, um, Hillary more. [00:52:55] Um, and not because I didn’t like Obama because like my fear was, I was like, [00:53:00] um, he’s going to get railroaded and she’ll actually like, Go to war with people, uh, and, and, and drive stuff home. But. The, the, the thing is, is that it’s like, she does have moments of humor and, and you can see her wit on Twitter. [00:53:15] She’s very witty, but she’s not funny and she’s not self-deprecating and, and that’s okay. Like, that’s completely okay. But like, she doesn’t have that part of her, which is completely fine, but like Obama did, uh, you know, uh, Clinton did, um, Biden does to a, to a certain extent. Um, the fear with him is that a piece to self deprecating and that re rails of against the whole like senile [00:53:39] Brett: [00:53:39] Yeah, for sure. [00:53:40] Christina: [00:53:40] So like, [00:53:40] Brett: [00:53:40] Yeah. He, he doesn’t have that leeway. No. [00:53:44] Christina: [00:53:44] no, he’ll be here. Right. Like he used to, but now he doesn’t. Um, and, and, uh, you know, and so, but yeah, but, but shrimp, I had to kind of, I even kind of thought I was like, this is, this is sort of funny. Um, I mean, you know, it was nightmarish, but also, I dunno, we’re at [00:54:00] this place, there’ve been so many terrible things that have happened this year. [00:54:03] That there’s almost like at a certain point, like. I just feel like I’m kind of outside my body, watching everything that’s happening. And I just have to kind of take, like, I have to just laugh. McConnelly at everything that’s happening because I’m like, this is really fucked up this, this entire year. Like everything that’s happening globally is just so terrible that there’s a certain amount of humor in it. [00:54:25] Like there just is because [00:54:27] Brett: [00:54:27] Yeah, except we’re at a terrifying precipice with a nation on the verge of violence and a stolen election and things are really scary. So. [00:54:37] Christina: [00:54:37] Yeah. Agreed. Which is [00:54:39] Brett: [00:54:39] either have to laugh or you have to go out and organize, I guess, fight [00:54:45] Christina: [00:54:45] I mean, it completely, I mean, and, and like, you know, uh, I, and I’m, and, but yeah, at a certain point, like there are things like, just for my own sanity, it’s like, I have to like, find like the dark, that gallows humor and at all, because it’s like, you know, it’s kind of like [00:55:00] a, you know, um, Doctors have really six senses of humor, certain lawyers do too. [00:55:05] And it’s just because they see like really terrible things all the time. And you know, like cops for that matter as well, like people who see really terrible traumatic things all the time, civically deal with it by having really, really, um, like six senses of humor. But you get it right. Cause at a certain point, like that’s all you can do. [00:55:26] Brett: [00:55:26] There’s the cutest little mouse in my office and he’s looking right at me and [00:55:30] Christina: [00:55:30] Oh, [00:55:31] Brett: [00:55:31] Oh my God, I can’t. Oh shit. They’re so cute. I hate, I wish I was better at catching them. [00:55:38] Christina: [00:55:38] Yeah. I mean, like, I, I like that [00:55:40] Brett: [00:55:40] my cat is sleeping like six feet away. [00:55:44]Christina: [00:55:44] you’re like, come on, come on, cat. You know, uh, do you, what does your cat like kill the mice or [00:55:51] Brett: [00:55:51] my cat is 17 years old. Now he rarely deigns to, uh, to chase a mouse anymore. He’ll Meow loudly at them. [00:56:00] [00:56:00]Christina: [00:56:00] I just didn’t know like, like even historically, [00:56:03] Brett: [00:56:03] Oh, yeah. He used to be quite the killer. He would bring me mice all the time. [00:56:07] Christina: [00:56:07] yeah, we had, um, our, our, our Doberman shadow, she would be so proud. She’d be like catch like a squirrel or something, you know, like in, in the backyard and she would be so proud and we were like, Shadow. What are, you don’t, don’t, you know, but like, what are you going to do? Like the dog is like, is like, I’ve done my job and, [00:56:28] Brett: [00:56:28] My, uh, my pit bull used to, she would go nuts for this is when she was alive, of course. But, uh, she would go nuts for this, a chipmunk that was always in. Yeah. And she would, she would go outside and she would see this chipmunk every time and she would chase it. And I always worried what would happen if she caught it. [00:56:47] And then one day she cornered it. Threw a play bow, like she wanted to play with the chipmunk. It was adorable. [00:56:57] Christina: [00:56:57] That see. Okay. See, that’s [00:57:00] awesome. I love that. That’s actually my favorite thing, like is that she spends all this time into the K what a play and the chipmunk is just like looking at like, what the hell. see, this is where, like, if it were a Disney movie or some other thing, they like, they would become friends. [00:57:14]You know what I mean? Like it would totally be. I love that. I love that. [00:57:19] Brett: [00:57:19] All right. So there’s one topic left where we’re at an hour, but I feel like I want to hear us a summer summary version of what you have to say about the UK, uh, reporting of Corona virus and their use of Excel. [00:57:38] Christina: [00:57:38] Yeah. Okay. So first of all, my, my general thesis, and I wish I could spend more time on this, um, is that the only true application is Excel? Um, I realized there were spreadsheets before Excel, although I can’t actually find much precedence for a gooey spreadsheet [00:57:56] before [00:57:57] Brett: [00:57:57] my, my, my only one before [00:58:00] Excel was like the word star era dos. [00:58:04] Christina: [00:58:04] right. Exactly. And we’ll well, okay, so Excel. Okay. First there was MultiPlan for Mac and that was like Microsoft’s first gooey thing for Mac and like 84 or something. And then in 85 Excel for came out and it was a Mac at first, it came to windows like two years later. Yeah. And, um, I don’t know. I mean, I, I, I just about this, but the, you can do anything in Excel. [00:58:25] You should, there are things you should absolutely not do in Excel, but you can do anything in it. And so I think it was like, you know, the one true app, uh, what with this UK situation happened, basically not only were they using Excel as a database and not even Excel, they were like, had. You know, really big CSV files and rather than using, you know, um, uh, SQL Lite or even just some sort of other like way to tablet really like view the data, you know, they were loading it into an Excel spreadsheet, uh, presumably, so they could print stuff out or whatever, but the version of Excel that they were using, I was [00:59:00] like from 2003, Meaning that there was like a 65,000 something like role limit. [00:59:06] And the current role limit is it’s a million, but you can, you can use pivot tables and other stuff to actually load, you know, more data and or whatever. But, um, so because of that, like they didn’t have the, the, the proper numbers, real problem. Um, deer NHS, like please upgrade. [00:59:24] Brett: [00:59:24] All right. [00:59:25] Christina: [00:59:25] Suzanne, please upgrade your version of Excel. [00:59:27] Like I, I’m not even saying you need to go to the latest version at all, but like, could we go to 2010? Like, could we be a decade behind, right. Like, cause, cause it’s actually really painful to think about like, you are nearly two decades behind on like one of your most important applications, but also for the love of God, you can do anything. [00:59:45] Excel, including building, like people have built like full on audio editors. Like, like people have recreated garage band and shit, like with Excel and it works where you can even import audio, like playback stuff, like create instruments. It’s insane. Like [01:00:00] what people can do with it. And also like the amount of, you know, free time that thank God for the internet and YouTube man, because I find people who are way more productive with their, uh, you know, um, ADHD than I am. [01:00:12] But, um, for the love of God, like [01:00:15]Brett: [01:00:15] Well, I saw, I saw a tweet that implied that they even had. A more recent version of Excel, but they were using a file format that was outdated. [01:00:27] Christina: [01:00:27] Maybe that was the case because they were using the XLS format instead of XLS X. And so, so yeah, w which again, it’s like the XLS X file format has been around since 2007. Like it’s at this point, you know, you can still save in the old things for compatibility reasons, but I don’t know, maybe this is a. [01:00:47] Maybe maybe, maybe it should be deprecated. Like maybe you should have to install like a plugin. If you’re going to actually save the old version to prevent shit like this from happening, but also for the love of God, you, this is what sequalitis for. Like use a damn [01:01:00] database. Like don’t use Excel for this. [01:01:01] You can do everything with Excel. That doesn’t mean you should. I love Excel more than anything. Um, even though I can’t use it all that well, but I just am so impressed with it, but my God like use a freaking database, like. For fuck sake. [01:01:17] Brett: [01:01:17] saw a tweet that had an error message and I’m not sure if it was windows 3.1. Or 95, cause it was such a weird looking dialogue to me, but the, the error message on it was could not copy files because no. [01:01:33]Christina: [01:01:33] I love that. I love it. Actually. Actually, one of my favorite things with this was that people were, um, I love the Microsoft Excel Twitter account. It is whatever intern or young person runs that account. Like, honestly, it’s one of the best Twitter accounts. Cause it’s very funny, but somebody who was like making fun of it, they’re like, Oh, well, you know, if we used. [01:01:53] Except for this or that, you know, it would change all of, all of the dates or, you know, it would, it would turn every, everything would have, and then it just was trying to, yeah, [01:02:00] we got you in like, show, like it’s completely in on the joke. Like this is why I love the Twitter account because the Twitter account is 100% in on the joke of all the reasons people like, you know, everyone loves Excel, but also everyone hates Excel. [01:02:10] Uh, and, and the Twitter account has 100% in on it. And Twitter account did not get involved in this particular brouhaha, understandably, but. This happened, like right as Xcel is celebrating his 35th birthday and people were kind of trying to drag it in certain ways. And just the response from the official account. [01:02:29] I’ve always very impressed when I’m, when I see stuff like that. Cause I have no idea who runs that, but it’s, it’s. We outsource, I think a lot of our kind of social media too, uh, you know, like except, Oh, completely. And, but whoever, whoever runs the Excel account, they don’t even follow me, which is really bothersome because I love it so much. [01:02:49] Uh, but, but the, the account’s really funny and, and I kind of pretended like, this is the only like good like brand Twitter account, because it’s actually funny and it’s in on the [01:03:00] joke a lot, but [01:03:01] Brett: [01:03:01] saw, I saw one where it was quote unquote, intelligently auto completing, and it was the months and it was January, February, March, February. [01:03:11] Christina: [01:03:11] Yes. [01:03:12]Brett: [01:03:12] Like I don’t use Excel. I don’t know how realistic this is, but it had decided to suffix you “uary” on every month. [01:03:20] Christina: [01:03:20] Yeah, that’s what I was referring to yet. And they they’d like, responded like that. Somebody said, there’s the gallery. Gosh, you like can be like, Oh yeah, because it’s going to turn everything into a month. And they’re like, yeah, we got you. And like showed like the auto-complete as like, yeah. Um, Also the fact that like, they’ll, they’ll like think, Oh, they’ll make money. [01:03:36] Yes. And we turned everything into, Oh, you know, all of us into, into currencies or whatever, you know, like, just so some of the, some of the frequent things that go wrong, which I just very much appreciate, uh, cause, um, I dunno, like it’s, it’s one of those, those, those apps that, uh, Yeah. Um, you can do anything with it, but it’s also, it’s really fucking hard. [01:04:00] [01:03:59] Um, that’s why, when I watch people who are really good at it, it’s like watching people who are really good at Photoshop or illustrator or anything, I’m just like, yeah, I, I, hell yeah. [01:04:09] Brett: [01:04:09] I’m just a dabbler. [01:04:12] Christina: [01:04:12] the same. I’m just a dabbler, but, but I, but I respect the skill and that’s all I want to say. I respect the skill, but also NHS, please, please, please. [01:04:21] Don’t. Don’t use Excel for a CSV file. Also like use newer formats and just like even use access. Use, use Airtable use file maker. You use a database, like, come on it’s I promise you what you’re doing in Excel. The queries, there are not any harder than running a SQL Curry. I promise you. I promise you. And then these things wouldn’t happen [01:04:45] Brett: [01:04:45] Yeah. Alright, well, shout out to the NHS, keep up the good work. Um, all right, well that was a rapid fire episode. We are, we do well [01:05:00] in the morning. We’re like one of those crazy morning shows like Harry and Andy in the morning, kind of things with funnier names. That was a, that was a bad example. [01:05:10] Christina: [01:05:10] No. I know, I know what you’re saying, actually, you know what? You’re not, you’re not wrong. I feel like going forward. We should, regardless of what day we do this, we should just try to do these in the morning because I have a feeling this is just a better time for us, for whatever [01:05:24] Brett: [01:05:24] We’ll have to try to hit Tuesday, Thursday or the weekend. So I don’t have to miss any more yoga for you. [01:05:30] Christina: [01:05:30] Oh, that’s completely fine. That’s completely fine. So yeah, we’ll work on that. Uh, but yeah, I feel like this morning schedule works also. It’s good for me because then I’m like awake and I’ve, my voice has worked before I have to go into my next things. So. [01:05:44] Brett: [01:05:44] not having sleep slept. Do you, you, you do seem surprisingly awake. [01:05:48]Christina: [01:05:48] Well, this is what happens. This is, this is the curse of the insomnia. I’ll be fine for a while. And then I’m going to drag ass for a bit, but, um, [01:05:57] Brett: [01:05:57] If you lived here, you would have gotten two espressos [01:06:00] by now already. [01:06:01]Christina: [01:06:01] fair enough. Fair [01:06:03] Brett: [01:06:03] My, my girlfriend had stopped drinking coffee while she was going through Lyme treatment. And then once she started drinking coffee again, now she might drink more than I do. [01:06:16]Christina: [01:06:16] We’ll [01:06:17] Brett: [01:06:17] She hasn’t learned how to use my espresso maker very well yet. [01:06:21] So I ended up making a lot of coffee in the mornings. [01:06:24] Christina: [01:06:24] Fair enough. Yes. See, this is always my whole thing with coffee is that, and we’re going to have to go because I have another thing, um, in like 10 minutes, but, um, I think this is the reason why I’m not like a regular coffee drinker, unless it’s just available for me. Is that. The steps that one has to go through to grind and prepare and do the whole thing is a lot. [01:06:46] And I know you do. And, but, but for me, this is one of those things where I just like, I don’t get into that part of it because then it’s like a whole mess to clean up and a whole thing. So like, One day [01:07:00] when I am independently wealthy and I can have my own Starbucks or, you know, whatever cafe, you know, um, like local, you know, uh, artismal thing in my house, then that will be one thing. [01:07:14] But, uh, Until then, you know, like, cause like, and I’ve like done like the pods and whatnot. I’ve done the Nespresso things and I’ve had like the, what is the curric and whatnot. That’s fine. But it’s also kind of like, I know that that’s kind of like shit coffee. So, so I’m kind of like I’m of this mind. I’m like, if I’m not going to do it right. [01:07:32] Just because I have so many friends who are like hardcore coffee snobs, I’m like, well, if I’m not going to do it right then should I bother doing it at all? [01:07:39] Brett: [01:07:39] Fair enough, get some sleep, Christina. [01:07:42] Christina: [01:07:42] Thank you. Get some sleep, Brett. [01:07:44]Brett: [01:07:44] All right.

The topics in this episode comprise a guide to conversations which should probably be avoided in… most company. I suppose most Overtired episodes do. But this one hits on veganism, religion, politics, and TV. Ok, you can talk about TV at dinner. Be smart about it, though. Sponsor Show Links 30,500% increase in searches for Schadenfreude Trump says “Don’t be afraid of Coronavirus” Women’s Roller Derby has a plan for Covid The Stream Deck Brett got Utopia Modern Love Old Guard Fury Road Atomic Blonde Ted Lasso The Unicorn GLOW Alison Brie Marc Maron Karabiner Elements Come Chat We’d love to see you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] It’s coming. It’s coming. My new stream deck is failing me. [00:00:04] Soundtrack: [00:00:04] Tired tired, tired. [00:00:09] Brett: [00:00:09] Welcome to overtired. Uh, I’m Brett Terpstra here with Christina Warren. Hi Christina. [00:00:14] Christina: [00:00:14] hi, Brett, how are you? [00:00:16] Brett: [00:00:16] I’m. I’m awesome. I’m better than you. I heard you were, uh, you’re not feeling great. [00:00:22] Christina: [00:00:22] I’m not feeling great, but I am super happy to be here with you. [00:00:25] Brett: [00:00:25] Uh, as a result of you not feeling great, we’re actually recording right before we release, which is kind of exciting because we can be super topical and not worry that news is going to change. Well, some of the news we have to talk about honestly, could change between now and tomorrow when I publish. But. [00:00:46] Christina: [00:00:46] W, but, but, but, but we’re closer. I was going to say like, the thing is, is that if we recorded on Saturday as planned so much of the most topical stuff, they’ve been totally different because every hour it [00:01:00] seems like is, is a, is a new, um, horror slash uh, comedy of errors. I don’t, I don’t know really how to freeze it. [00:01:08] Brett: [00:01:08] Yeah, that sounds about right. a dumpster on fire floating in a river while the forest around it burns. [00:01:17] Christina: [00:01:17] And the sky is orange and, uh, yeah. Yeah. [00:01:22] Brett: [00:01:22] Yeah. Um, so I was going to tell you, just in response to your vegetarian question last time, uh, one thing that did happen. Is after, uh, weeks of intermittent fasting and really not losing much weight at all. Um, going vegetarian had the immediate effect of losing like five pounds. [00:01:47] Christina: [00:01:47] interesting. [00:01:48] Brett: [00:01:48] Yeah. Turns out meat is bad. [00:01:53] No one should eat meat. [00:01:56] Christina: [00:01:56] Uh, I mean, I don’t think that’s true. Although I think [00:02:00] there are lots of reasons to, to look other sources of protein and whatnot, but I don’t think. I’m not going to take that, like take away from [00:02:11] Brett: [00:02:11] Chicken. Oh, wait. [00:02:13] Christina: [00:02:13] see, right. Well, I mean, I did once about meat or beef anyway, because I found out there was like some, a thing called national beef steak month. [00:02:23] And I was so horrified that like such a thing would exist that I like was like, I’m not eating any beef or whatever for the month. And I became a new mic. [00:02:33] Brett: [00:02:33] yeah, how’d that go? [00:02:36] Christina: [00:02:36] uh, I mean, again, not great. Like, I, I, I like had to go to the doctor and like get on pills because I had anemia. Uh, again, that’s probably more of a reflection on my like bad diet in general, but it taught me at the ripe old age of 19 to not be political about my food. [00:02:56] Brett: [00:02:56] You said I became anemic and I thought you said I became vegan. [00:03:00] [00:03:00] Christina: [00:03:00] Oh, sorry. Yeah, no, I did not become vegan. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I became anemic and uh, yeah. And, and, but, but I D I did learn a lesson that for me personally, I was like, all right, Christina, just don’t be political about your food [00:03:14] Brett: [00:03:14] fair enough. Yeah. I’m not, I’m not, yeah, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t vegetarian for my own health and my own, uh, ecological concerns, but yeah, I’m not, I am of the opinion that. Basically the entire population population of the U S would have to go vegetarian to actually make a real dent. It would have to be enough to get the meat industry itself to change. [00:03:42] Um, me converting a few of my friends to vegetarian. Isn’t it’s not worth the, uh, it’s like when I was a kid and it was my job to go out and convert all of my friends to Christianity. Uh, ultimately the, the payoff, it doesn’t seem. [00:04:00] You’re not really making a dent in the hoard of people that I was told. [00:04:03] They’re going to hell like saving one person at a time. Just didn’t really feel like a good return on investment to me. [00:04:11] Christina: [00:04:11] Well, well, you’re clearly not a good latter day Saint, because [00:04:15] Brett: [00:04:15] Great way to lose friends though. Have you accepted the Lord? Jesus Christ? Um, [00:04:22] Christina: [00:04:22] did you seriously do that as a kid? Like, [00:04:25] Brett: [00:04:25] Oh, yeah. Yeah. I needed to talk to you about something. Have you accepted Jesus as your Lord and savior? It’s really important to me that you do this. Let’s pray. Yeah, that was, that was childhood for me. A lot of stress around that too. [00:04:39] Christina: [00:04:39] Wow. Yeah. Cause like my, my mom is like religious, but I guess it’s like a personal thing. And like I grew up going to church, but, uh, the whole like, um, missionary thing was never, ever part of like my upbringing, although I wonder if part of it. [00:05:00] It’s interesting. A and I’ve never talked to my mom about this, but I do get the distinct sense that she’s sort of bothered by some missionary practices. [00:05:08] I don’t want to put words in her mouth because she might disagree with me, but, uh, I always got that sense that that was not something she was down with and be living where I lived and growing up where I grew up, everybody was. Judeo-Christian of some type, right? Like, uh, and I mean, we had not a lot of Muslims, but even then, like it’s Abraham, Abraham ma you know, Abrahamic, whatever. [00:05:34] Like, so I don’t think that I grew up with a lot of theists or agnostics. Like there might’ve been people who didn’t go to church, but I don’t actually know if I could say that any of the people I grew up with until. You know, like it was in high school or whatever. We’re like, I don’t believe in God. [00:05:57] Brett: [00:05:57] the thing is when you grow up in [00:06:00] an evangelical church, there’s a very specific criteria for being saved. And for us Catholics were wrong. Catholics. Weren’t going to heaven, Catholics. Weren’t Christians. Like just as an example of, of what evangelical thinking is like. [00:06:17] Christina: [00:06:17] Oh, no, I know that you okay. You are right. So there were, there were a lot of Southern Baptist, which we were not, and they definitely had that whole saved [00:06:26] Brett: [00:06:26] Yup. That’s where I started with Southern Baptist. [00:06:29] Christina: [00:06:29] and that was certainly because I did not grow up that way. I grew up like a Pisco paleon, uh, and, and like Methodist and, uh, Episcopalian, especially is pretty liberal, uh, comparatively [00:06:44] Brett: [00:06:44] yeah, for sure. [00:06:45] Christina: [00:06:45] uh, kind of sex, but it was also one of those things that even if I had people. [00:06:52] Who I was around, who was like, Oh, if you haven’t gone through this, you’re not going to heaven. Like if somebody had said that my Catholic grandmother was not going to [00:07:00] heaven to me, I, as a very small, very religious child would have told them to go fuck themselves. I would have been like, okay, No, you’re not going to have it. [00:07:09] Like, if you’re going to say that, like, that was just one of those things. Also. I think my mom just, she did because we had these conversations. Cause I was sometimes I think here, like friends of mine have those questions and they’d be like, Oh, if you don’t believe this, you’re not going there. And I would ask her questions and she’d be like, no, like. [00:07:27] Like God is not going to not let you know someone just because they believe that a slightly different thing into heaven if they’re still a good person. So yeah, I think that, that that’s a, I have to credit my mom for that. Cause I think it could have been very. Different had I had like, just a slightly different familial structure. [00:07:50] Cause I did grow up religious, but not like that. And then to their immense credit, even though I’m sure it was very painful for them when I was 15. And I was like, I [00:08:00] went from being very religious to being like, you know what? No. I’m not, I’m not, I’m not into this. I don’t believe this. This is not actually something that I’m going to adhere to. [00:08:12] And yeah. And, um, I might still have some aspects of spirituality, but I have major qualms with other aspects of this, uh, to, to their immense credit. Even though I know that of it’s painful for them, they have not. Like I didn’t get, even then, like, I, it wasn’t one of those things where I was like forced to go to church or I was yelled at, or I was made to feel bad. [00:08:35] I’m probably I’m thinking because a, I had like other, like emotional stuff going on, but also I think my parents are smart enough to know that, like, I’m not somebody that they could just kind of. Convince in that way, you know what I mean? Like, like they wouldn’t be able to like me, it will reason with me and they won’t be able to yell at me and they’re like, all right. [00:08:59] If Christine has made this [00:09:00] decision, we’re not going to change her mind by appealing to authority because she’s pretty anti-authoritarianism and will disagree and go even harder just to spite us, which. Would have actually been the case. Right? Like if they had actually gone like hard, been like, Oh, you have to do this or that, like that would have, like, I would have joined some sort of like atheist movement, even if I didn’t believe everything they said and, and gone like way, way, way to the other side, just to spite them. [00:09:29] Brett: [00:09:29] you would think that that would have been more common with gen X, but it’s actually millennials that started the trend towards, uh, America being less religious. And we’re still the most religious country among developed worlds. But, uh, But there is a trend towards, uh, not just a less religious, but towards atheism, which is in my opinion, a wonderful step for a supposedly educated country to take, but no offense to, uh, to all the religious people [00:10:00] out there. [00:10:00] Christina: [00:10:00] Well, yeah. And although I would say, I think that if you look at the numbers, I think it’s really, when people say atheism, they really mean agnosticism [00:10:08] Brett: [00:10:08] Um, [00:10:09] Christina: [00:10:09] in the United States. I actually do think so. [00:10:11] Brett: [00:10:11] I, okay. [00:10:13] Christina: [00:10:13] No, I actually do think so because there are some people who will say that, but. Because we are such a puritanical, like, look, we were founded by Puritans. [00:10:22] We are a religious country. Like by the way, we were founded in the way that we’ve been done. And our country is much, much, much, much, much younger than the other developed nations. Like historically we just are. That means, I think that, and we have like this wave of American only religions too, which are very young. [00:10:41] Um, uh, like historically speaking, I do feel like. It’s much like people conflate the two, but they’re different. I do feel like the, if you were to ask a lot of people and maybe I’m wrong on this, but I have read studies on this. I think people conflate the two and I do feel like it is much more difficult for people [00:11:00] to totally separate, especially millennials to separate themselves from st. [00:11:04] Don’t at all, except that there could be a higher being or a higher focus or controlling. Um, you know, dad, maybe not even a dad, but, but you know, thing out there versus I don’t believe that there’s anything. [00:11:21] Brett: [00:11:21] remind me, are you Ignacio or atheist? [00:11:25] Christina: [00:11:25] I don’t know, to be [00:11:26] Brett: [00:11:26] So you’re agnostic. [00:11:29] Christina: [00:11:29] Probably, but, but, well, I don’t know, because there’ve been things in my life that I’ve experienced that I can’t explain other ways. And then there are things where I’m like a rational human. So, uh, and I would like to think of myself as quasi intellectuals. So I don’t know, honestly, like it can go either way and you, it’s also interesting because you do also have this rise of people who are millennials who, uh, you know, consider Buddhist teachings. [00:11:55] But wouldn’t consider themselves to be Buddhist in the religious sense. So, so, [00:12:00] but, but, but see, but, but the thing is, you say, but sure, but that the, to me, that does kind of dictate that like that’s different from being an atheist, because if you really are an atheist, then why would you want to, you know, adhere or practice anything related to Buddhism? [00:12:17] Even if you’re not like looking at it as a religion. [00:12:20] Brett: [00:12:20] Every religion has some teachings that are just good, common sense. Um, I was talking to my, uh, my rabbi and actually went to temple and he told me that, um, there are in his congregation, there are atheists that go to temple every week. And they don’t have to believe in a God to find a Judaism, uh, full of wisdom and just good, common sense. [00:12:52] It’s for, it’s not that atheist. I don’t have a moral code. Like we, we do, we have strong morals and [00:13:00] [00:13:00] Christina: [00:13:00] No, no. And I’m not saying that what I am going to say though, is that I would actually question whether those people are actually atheist. And the reason I say that is that, and maybe I’m wrong on this and maybe this isn’t how other atheists feel. And if so, like I would like to hear from them, but I’ve always. [00:13:16] To me anyway, the way I’ve looked at at faith of any type has been, that it’s been about to a certain degree about comfort and about, you know, like there’s, there’s a feeling involved. And I would, I would genuinely question why, like, if someone didn’t get some sort of comfort or some sort of good feeling or have some other sort of reason, um, why somebody who didn’t believe in those things would attend temple. [00:13:42] Like [00:13:43] Brett: [00:13:43] because of a congregation. You can get comfort from being in the presence of people who live a similar code to you. Uh, the fellowship of that, you can get comfort from that without believing in a God atheism just means you [00:14:00] don’t believe in a God. And that, and fellowship is where that comfort for religious people tends to come from. [00:14:07] Uh, there’s a certain, there’s a certain aspect of believing in something higher than myself. Gives me a sense of wellbeing. I’m sure that exists for a lot of people, but for most people, churches are equally about the, the fellowship, uh, [00:14:24] Christina: [00:14:24] true. That’s true. And, and I mean, honestly, that’s probably one of the reasons why it was easy for me to not go to church and to reject those aspects of it, because I never felt a fellowship in church ever. Um, which is, which is a total, total different from my parents who did feel a fellowship. I never did. [00:14:41] I always thought they were, I always thought the people at our church we’re kind of assholes. And I was just going to, like, I don’t want to be with you people. [00:14:47] Brett: [00:14:47] the whole, the whole zoom church thing was really rough on my parents, because for them, like, Being with like minded people every week, multiple times a week, uh, was a really big part of their [00:15:00] life. [00:15:00] Christina: [00:15:00] yeah. See, I don’t know. It was just so interesting to me. I’m like, I respect that there could be like atheists who don’t believe in any sort of higher power at all who go to be around people. I think mile, I think the reason I struggle with that, I’m not saying that that’s not a thing because you’re clearly telling me that it is. [00:15:15] I think the reason that I struggle. I guess to understand that is because I couldn’t imagine like willingly spending time every week with people who have very different, like. Views from me in like what I would consider for many people to be like a deep sense. Having said that I’m assuming this is a reform Judaism. [00:15:39] And so, so that is very different than say if it were Orthodox or even if it were, were even mainline Judaism, right? Like that it’s going to be, it’s going to be very different. So if it’s performed that, I think actually makes sense. That’s much more of a community sort of feel. Straight up then, if you were to talk about a different sort of [00:16:00] sack, like I wouldn’t see, for instance, an atheist, I would, I would be very surprised if you had a, uh, you know, atheist going to a Southern [00:16:09] Brett: [00:16:09] Oh, Oh, fuck. No, no, but, but an atheist going to a Unitarian church, you can see. [00:16:15] Christina: [00:16:15] Yeah, totally. And, and in some ways I could even see weirdly like, Pisco paleon, although that’s, it’s, that’s such a, it’s such a weird sect it’s it’s Catholic light is what it’s called, because you have all of like the, the ritual aspects of Catholicism, which mainline Catholicism doesn’t even do anymore. [00:16:36] But you have like the, the, you know, the, the masses and Latin and you have the, um, you know, just like the, the, yeah. The community, you have the ritual aspect and it’s, it’s. Very certain thing, but then the actual teachings themselves and the politics are very different. Like the whole reason that the church, the Anglican church was formed was because King George or whatever, wanted to get divorced. [00:16:58] So he had to [00:17:00] start his own like religion to be able to, to get divorced. And so. You can get divorced. Women can be priests. Uh, you can be gay. They will, you know, they were doing same sex unions, you know, 30 years ago. So it’s, it’s very different. And so it’s this weird kind of hodgepodge and then Anglican and Episcopalian are different too, because angle the Anglican church fully rejects all the left wing, what they consider like heresy of the Episcopalian church. [00:17:28] And you see a lot of stupid for like deeply like. Uh, intolerant views from people who adhere strictly to the Anglican tradition. Um, often in places like Africa, uh, which I, that’s not Africa’s fault. That is the fault of the colonizers. The, you know, people who have gone there to, you know, um, be missionaries and whatnot. [00:17:51] But anyway, we’re going off on a whole tangent about religion, which is, which is a terrible topic to have a podcast about, to be totally [00:17:59] Brett: [00:17:59] We’re a [00:18:00] third of the way into our show and religion was not on our bullet list at all. This, this has been fun though. [00:18:06] Christina: [00:18:06] this has been fun. Okay. So let, let’s talk about things that are on our list because, um, we, we were getting into this because of, of the, the things that are happening right now in the world, which is, uh, you put a great definition, um, from, from Webster’s in, uh, in our show notes. Um, for, uh, for, I think like every everybody’s favorite German phrase, I would say, say Sean Frieda. [00:18:32] Brett: [00:18:32] yeah. Um, there were, there was a 30000% increase in, uh, searches for the definition of shouting Freida [00:18:44] Christina: [00:18:44] Oh my God. Okay. That, that actually really depresses me. [00:18:48] Brett: [00:18:48] and for anyone who still hasn’t Googled it yet, it, uh, it means taking delight in the, um, the misfortune of others and, uh, [00:19:00] enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others. The English word was borrowed from German in the middle of the 19th century in German. It comes from Shodan damage and Freida joy. Um, and no, I, I don’t speak German, so that was probably slaughtered. [00:19:14] But, uh, but yeah. Uh, so Trump, who, who downplayed coronavirus intentionally the whole time got Corona virus. And, uh, and America, uh, by and large said, well, yeah, yeah, obviously. Yeah. And some people are all thoughts and prayers and some of us don’t have the common decency to give a shit. Um, What happens to him at this point? [00:19:44] Although I, I shutter to think what would happen to our government in its current state. If, if the president was a 25th amendment or, or, or worse died, um, [00:19:56] Christina: [00:19:56] right? Yeah, no, I mean, I, I genuinely just [00:20:00] because. It’s funny to be like, Oh, I don’t care. Like what happens? Something like genuinely don’t wish like death or harm on, on anyone. Um, at least. Not maybe if I knew someone or knew of something that personally happened, like that would be a different thing. [00:20:17] But I do try to, when we talk about moral codes, like, I, I, that is something that I try to like live my life or not, because I think that I’m like in any way, like morally superior better, but just cause I don’t think it’s healthy to have that type of anger, uh, which is growth for me because there have definitely been times in my life when that has not been the case. [00:20:34] Brett: [00:20:34] See for me, it’s not anger though for me, I consider Trump to be such a dangerous human being that it’s not that I wish death upon him. It’s that I wouldn’t cry if he died. [00:20:46] Christina: [00:20:46] I mean, look, I’m going to be totally honest. I would not cry either. I’m just saying I’m not going to be tweeting or making public comments to be like, you know, celebrating [00:20:55] Brett: [00:20:55] just because those are going to come back and bite you eventually [00:20:59] Christina: [00:20:59] only that, but it’s [00:21:00] just, uh, you [00:21:00] Brett: [00:21:00] that in common decency. [00:21:02] Christina: [00:21:02] It’s mostly the common decency thing, but yeah, they could come back and bite you. [00:21:05] But I mean, there, there certainly been figures and things where I’ve, you know, when I was younger said things and now the reason is it’s like, It’s been through therapy and it’s like a growth thing where for me personally, I’m like, you know what, like this is, this is not healthy. And this doesn’t help me. [00:21:21] Like this gives that thing more power that said, yeah, we’ll have shot and Freud about it because of course, I think Joe Biden even said, we’re recording this on Tuesday. He said at, uh, with Lester Holt, uh, last night, Uh, he said that he, you know, he was kind of like, yeah, he is responsible for if, like, if you don’t take precautions and if you don’t believe it’s real, if you’re not doing those things, then you’re responsible with what happens, which I think is very true. [00:21:49] And, and by NASSA said that he wasn’t surprised that that Trump got coronavirus, which is exactly how I feel. And I’m like, yeah, I’m. I mean, if anything, to a certain extent, [00:22:00] it’s almost surprising that it took this long, right? Like I think that the surprising aspect, the, the shot in the reason that there’s the shot in Florida is the timing of all of this. [00:22:11] Uh, I don’t, you know, I think that some of the conspiracy theories and some of that stuff was disappointing to see, especially on the left, but, uh, I do understand why the initial response from some people was, is this even real? Just because the timing. You know, to be so close to the election to be right after the first debate to be, you know, where we are like just a month before, um, you know, uh, voting, you know, well, some voting has already started in some places [00:22:40] Brett: [00:22:40] already voted. [00:22:41] Christina: [00:22:41] um, yeah, my ballot hasn’t come in yet, but like that, you know, that sort of level and that thing, the timing of it is just. It’s so narratively perfect. That if you saw it on a TV show, you would be like, all right, I’m going to buy into this and watch [00:22:58] Brett: [00:22:58] What, but it would [00:23:00] feel, yeah. I feel like the most obvious, predictable plot twist, it would feel, it would feel lazy on the part of the writers. [00:23:08] Christina: [00:23:08] Exactly. Exactly. Like you’re like, all right, I’ll buy into this because I want to continue this story, but this, this doesn’t ring true. Although I think everything that’s happened this year does kind of show that truth is stranger than fiction sometimes. And, uh, [00:23:23] Brett: [00:23:23] it actually is a good cliffhanger though. I have been checking the news more often in the last few days than I have in a long time. [00:23:32] Christina: [00:23:32] I was going to say, like, so I listened to the New York times podcast, the daily, like they had to do a special edition on Friday after he was diagnosed. Like they had to do a whole special thing. Yeah. Like upending, I think some of their prerecord stuff and, and adding more information, just cause so much news was breaking. [00:23:49] Brett: [00:23:49] Yeah. [00:23:50] Christina: [00:23:50] and it’s one of those things where I bet that if you know, the, and they were doing so much reporting through the weekend, um, if it wouldn’t have been an undue burden, you know, on the audio editors, I bet that that’s one [00:24:00] of those things where they probably were, I have no knowledge of this, but there’s a part of me thinks it was like, I bet that there were discussions at some level where they were like, do we, do we do like make a twice a day update on this? [00:24:12] Cause like, if you go to their website, like they have like, almost like, like it’s breaking news, you know, following the, the trail of how many people have been infected and, and what the status is. And yeah, I was really sick this weekend. But I was still waking up and I was like reading and catching up on like every time I would like kind of fall asleep and I’d wake up and I would see even more like stuff that had broken out. [00:24:37] I was like, Oh my God. [00:24:39] Brett: [00:24:39] The, uh, the, the news. If we had recorded Saturday, we would have missed, this is, um, the, the next overly predictable, uh, uh, plot element was he was released from the hospital and on his way out, he tweeted feeling really good. Don’t be afraid of COVID. Don’t let it dominate your [00:25:00] life. We have developed under the Trump administration, some really great drugs and knowledge. [00:25:05] I feel better than I did 20 years ago. What the fuck is that? He, he he’s completely ignoring that he got millions of dollars worth of the best treatment available. He’s writing to the gills right now. [00:25:22] Christina: [00:25:22] Yes, he’s weighted to the guilt. Of course he feels great. He’s, he’s, he’s high on, on a dexamethazone and, um, you know, and they’re probably, they probably given him other stuff. I mean, yeah. I have to say, like, this is the thing where I got I’m like angry and I don’t want to turn this into a politics show or whatever, but I get like, Viscerally angry, because first of all, how fucking dare you? [00:25:44] How fucking dare you. You are president of the United States. And I’m not saying that he shouldn’t receive the best care and the entire [00:25:51] Brett: [00:25:51] Yeah, that’s fine. We expect that [00:25:53] Christina: [00:25:53] because of course he should any leader of a developed nation. Absolutely. But to pretend as if the [00:26:00] care that he gets is equivalent of the care that I would get, or the care that you would get is ridiculous and insulting. [00:26:07] Brett: [00:26:07] And to tell people not to be afraid. [00:26:10] Christina: [00:26:10] Yes. And also you’re talking about people who don’t have access to healthcare, this, which is most of his base. Like this is the most fucked up thing. Like the, like his base is the, is the base that by and large is, has less healthcare. Like if you actually look at [00:26:25] Brett: [00:26:25] And, and he’s working on making it even less and, and COVID will count as a preexisting condition. For these people, he wants to remove preexisting condition coverage from [00:26:36] Christina: [00:26:36] Absolutely. I mean, that’s the thing it’s like, you literally are. Are telling people who don’t have the ability to go to Walter Reed and have, you know, um, the best doctors in the country consulted and the best thing have direct access to all kinds of experimental therapies, whether that’s a good idea. for his health or not like that, that that’s [00:27:00] that’s beside the point fact is that he can call any of those places and get these drugs that are only in trial and get access to them. You and I can’t do that. Even very wealthy people would struggle at some points. I’m guessing like they would need, you need to make a call. [00:27:15] It wouldn’t be something that their doctor would probably just be able to, to do. It’d be something where it’s like, all right. I’m going to now have to call in a favor with somebody who knows somebody so I can get access to this. You know what I [00:27:26] Brett: [00:27:26] Yeah, totally. [00:27:27] Christina: [00:27:27] so, so to me, like how fucking dare you, like, it’s good to just say this and, um, And he’s not even out of the woods yet. [00:27:36] Like that’s the thing it’s like, people have felt like they’ve been doing better and then it’s turned around. Like the one good thing is that his blood oxygen levels seem to have improved. And that is usually the big indicator with, you know, like. If you’re going to die from it or not, but yeah, congratulations. [00:27:55] They were able to save him because she’s the president. Like that doesn’t mean that other people [00:28:00] are going to be able to get that same care or any care or that they would be able to afford their treatments. If they did have to go into the hospital for this and that it wouldn’t be devastating in that sense. [00:28:09] Like, it’s just, it really, really angers me. For, for that rhetoric to then become the, especially, especially when you look at the number of people that were exposed to the virus, uh, at his events and because of him and because of the people on his staff and, and they’re not even doing contact tracing, it’s like, and the reason they’re not doing contact tracing is because they don’t want more people who got the virus. [00:28:36] They don’t want that to happen. It’s the same. Thing is his whole thing has been, which is if we don’t test the numbers will be lower and it will look better. Meanwhile, people are fucking dying and no one cares. And we don’t have stimulus packages passed to protect people who are struggling and the economy still isn’t back on track. [00:28:55] And you know what. Part of that reason is because of him. It’s like, if we take [00:29:00] in this shit seriously, like other countries have, right. We could maybe be in a phase where we could do some real, um, like Australia is, is a lot more together than we are. New Zealand is a lot more together than we are. And they still have periods where people will come in and where they’ll be exposed to stuff. [00:29:17] And they have to clamp things down again. But meanwhile, like, I don’t know, I just, I’m going to go off my soap box [00:29:23] Brett: [00:29:23] Did you the, uh, there’s a roller Derby association that came up with, I think it was a 12, 12 level, like a 12 tier code we’d plan so that they could start holding events at first, like. I don’t remember all the levels, but they, they worked out this system that was so complete and so good that other organizations began calling about it. [00:29:50] And even, uh, uh, local governments began implementing this roller Derby league’s covert protocols. And I [00:30:00] wish I’ll find a link. It’ll be in the show notes to this. It’s kind of amazing that because on this roller Derby team, There were nurses and healthcare workers who actually thought through all of this and implemented something that apparently government can’t like, even on a local level. [00:30:20] So interesting side, side story to all of this. [00:30:26] Christina: [00:30:26] Yeah, well, no, I mean, it’s sort of interesting when you have like people, I actually kind of like working together. Um, I don’t want to turn this whole into a whole, like, you know, COVID politics show, but there’ve been, there’s been a lot of really interesting reporting in vanity fair about how, uh, you know, Jareds brain trust. [00:30:42] I’m re I’m being sarcastic here. Rolling my eyes, how they like their work, but there actually was a team team of people who were smart, like very smart. People who were gathered together and were trying to work on a plan. And, um, a lot of their ideas, I mean, it was better [00:31:00] than, than what we’ve had. Um, only for the whole thing to basically be thrown out because they figured that politically well, most of the States there that are showing the highest number of infections are blue States. [00:31:11] So what do we care? Which honestly, [00:31:14] Brett: [00:31:14] They’re also the most populated anyway. Yeah. [00:31:17] Christina: [00:31:17] know, but, but, but to me like, and th th becomes an apolitical thing actually, like what type of evil do you have to be where you will not implement a plan or even look at a plan based on how you believe that electorate votes like, like, honestly, like that is, that is totalitarian [00:31:35] Brett: [00:31:35] cool. That’s fascism right there. [00:31:37] Christina: [00:31:37] is fascism. That is absolutely fascist. And, and, and to me, it’s just, it’s really. Really horrifying just to see. And you know, what happens is that those stories are reported and people aren’t horrified that horrifies me even more like those, those things come out and the collective response I think is, yeah, it makes sense. [00:31:55] Brett: [00:31:55] Yeah, right. [00:31:55] Christina: [00:31:55] be that shouldn’t be our response. Yeah. And for years we’ve become so [00:32:00] desensitized and so accepting if we’re being totally honest, To the fact that this is how things go. No, we should be horrified. We should be calling it out. Like I don’t want to like, and I feel myself with this where I feel myself, like, like not being surprised. [00:32:13] And, and that bothers me because when that happens, we are losing our bits of humanity when we become accepting of that type of behavior. And when we become like, almost like ambivalent to it, because that’s not [00:32:27] Brett: [00:32:27] That’s how fascism rises. [00:32:29] Christina: [00:32:29] It absolutely is you just say, well, that’s just the way the world works. No, you know what, like, I’m sorry. [00:32:35] That is not the way that the world works and it’s not the way that the world should work. And, and we don’t, you know, like, like. W, you know, we are supposed to be living in a Republic and, and this is not supposed to be what we stand for. And yes, our country has historically committed many atrocities as have, has every other country, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t aspire to not commit more. [00:32:58] And so when it just becomes [00:33:00] well, yeah, it makes total sense that, that, of course they made these decisions on political grounds, like I’m horrified and I’m even more horrified that. It just becomes status quo and, and that, that happened only four years. And that is how you get the rise of like totalitarian regimes. [00:33:19] And that is how really terrible things happen. Yeah. And, and people. Who cause you asked me, how do people let this happen? This is how you become so desensitized to it. That as it gets worse and worse, you don’t realize until you take in the, the totalitarian like that, the totality of what’s actually happened anyway. [00:33:40] Brett: [00:33:40] Yup. All right. That feels like a good place to wrap the politics segment up. Yeah. Cause, cause I’m about to go off on like some extreme leftist shit right now. So, um, I’ll reign it in. [00:33:53] Christina: [00:33:53] you’ll bring it in. Let’s talk about your new stream doc, actually. [00:33:56] Brett: [00:33:56] Okay. So I originally I had the stream deck [00:34:00] mini, uh, and I had a lot of fun programming the buttons and I push it, I think as far as it can go, um, I had like certain scenes that would come up when certain apps were, were, uh, in the foreground. And that I made pretty good use of six buttons, but eventually I found myself wanting more. [00:34:21] So I ordered the one with, what is it? 16. 15, yeah. 15 buttons on it. Yeah, not the XL. It’s kinda, it’s like the medium one. [00:34:32] Christina: [00:34:32] Yeah. So, so that’s the original stream deck. So that’s what you, what you ordered. That’s the one that originally came out and was out for a couple of years, then they came out with the XL and then I think they came out with a [00:34:41] Brett: [00:34:41] that, that, that sounds, that sounds correct, because I watched, I watched them for a long time and, and, and thought I could have fun with that, but it doesn’t seem worth it. And then I had to get the money for a job and, and now I’m hooked, but I’m having trouble with it. When I, when I plugged [00:35:00] in the new one, it asked if I wanted to, uh, Move my, my settings from my mini to the new one and I did, but I keep like the folders are messed up. [00:35:10] Yeah. I have to, I’m going to wipe it and reprogram it from scratch. I wanted to have it to a point where I had a better soundboard. Um, I was gonna surprise you with a bunch of bunch of, bunch of fun sound effects. We’ll get there. It’ll happen. Uh, and there will at bare minimum be like an applause track. [00:35:30] So when you finish one of your like five minute long rants, we can just have like a round of applause. Cause that’s what people are here for. They’re here for the Christina rant, for sure. [00:35:42] Christina: [00:35:42] for sure. They’re, they’re definitely here for that now. They’re we’re here for you. Um, I’m I’m, I’m just, I’m just, [00:35:46] Brett: [00:35:46] Don’t be ridiculous. [00:35:48] Christina: [00:35:48] but, uh, no, that’s awesome. I’m glad you got the, the regular one. Yeah. So when I first used the stream deck and I guess it was. God, I guess it was about two years ago now. [00:35:58] Um, [00:36:00] I two or three, I don’t even know. Um, I, um, I was like a huge fan of seeing kind of the stuff that we could do with it because. At Microsoft, like with my job within channel nine, like we have like a production studio and it’s not as fully featured as the Microsoft production studios, which is genuinely like a TV station, but it is like a very nice production studio. [00:36:24] And we have, you know, um, uh, self-serve room, uh, where people can kind of record themselves where there’s like, I’m like, You know, uh, fake wood back paneling and there’s like a chair or a sofa and a camera set up and, and, uh, for, for screen sharing and, um, people can kind of record themselves. And, you know, a microphone or whatever, with a high end camera. [00:36:46] And the way that that is controlled is through a stream deck. And that was something that, uh, somebody ran across and, and told us about. And then we got, and this was, yeah, this was probably close to three years ago now. Um, and, uh, So [00:37:00] that was my first kind of experience playing with one and I have needed one myself. [00:37:06] Um, although I don’t have it set up yet. So I was especially like the beginning of COVID. I was actually using the phone app. I actually paid the $30 or whatever for the phone app. Um, which. Is great. And I will say again, I think I said to people, if you are curious about trying one of these out, um, if you don’t, if you’re not like Brett and you don’t need to buy one, like for a job, um, I would say rather than, you know, spending the money, if you don’t want to go through the returns or whatever, get the app because the app. [00:37:39] It’s it’s, it’s a subscription you can cancel, you know, after the year or whatever, but it has like a, a three day trial or seven day trial or something, but get the app because the app works with, um, you know, the, the, the application on Mac or PC, and it has the same features. It just doesn’t have the, you know, the physical feel of the buttons. [00:37:55] And it’s a, it’s a really good way to get a sense of it. Um, but El Gato [00:38:00] came out with the, uh, ring light, um, of like, Two weeks ago. And when I bought the ring light, I went ahead and bought, uh, the stream deck Xcel. So the giant one. [00:38:12] Brett: [00:38:12] Yeah. It’s like 30, 32 buttons. Is that. [00:38:15] Christina: [00:38:15] yeah, yeah. Which is probably overkill, but [00:38:19] Brett: [00:38:19] Like I would spend as much time hunting for the right button on the screen as I would just running like a keyboard Maestro, shortcut. [00:38:28] Christina: [00:38:28] more than likely the, what, what I’m kind of anticipating doing with it is. I might not use all the buttons or whatever, but maybe I will is having like different scenes set up for different purposes. So I could say, okay, when I do this sort of recording, these are the things that I want when I do this one. [00:38:44] It’s this one, I, I believe it is overkill. I would have been fine with the other one, but, um, I’ve been dealing with COVID by just buying a bunch of stuff, stuff. So. Also, there was a period of time when they were harder to get, um, in [00:39:00] stock. And so it was just one of those things when I was like, all right, if I’m, if I’m buying this light, I might as well just go ahead and get the XLS and stock fine. [00:39:08] I’ll get it. Um, I think it’s overkill. I was supposed to actually have like a normal one was supposed to be provided to me to be owned by the company, but I would have it at home and that hasn’t happened yet. And so, which is fine. And I was just like, I’ll just, I’ll just, I’ll just get the giant one. Um, But, uh, [00:39:26] Brett: [00:39:26] You know, the screen saver that shows up on the background when it’s, when your computer’s not active, you can change that. Talk about fun. [00:39:38] Christina: [00:39:38] cause we had one, I think actually when we had a studio, I think we had one where we, uh, we had it like looked like fish or something, which was kinda cool, [00:39:44] Brett: [00:39:44] Yeah. [00:39:45] Christina: [00:39:45] but yeah. Um, what’s interesting is that, is that the stream deck mobile, like it’s great. Cause it’s on your phone. But where it would be perfect and it doesn’t, it’s not optimized. [00:39:55] It’d be perfect if it were for the iPad. And I think that the reason [00:40:00] they don’t optimize it for iPad is because that would completely obviate the need for a whole bunch of people of buying a physical one. Because imagine like, if you were able to use like, like, you know, a full size iPad, let alone like the 12.9 inch, like, but let’s just talk about like the normal size or the 11 inch iPad pro that would be. [00:40:20] Obviate many, many people are like, yeah. You know what? I don’t need to spend $200 on the physical device. I’m just going to use the software. [00:40:29] Brett: [00:40:29] be an app, a non El Gato solution that does that with iPad. And there’s gotta be some companion app for Mac. [00:40:37] Christina: [00:40:37] Yeah, there is, it won’t work with the El Gato software, but there is like, somebody has come up with like, I guess, alternatives. It’s not as good, but I’ve looked into this because that was, that was kinda my thing. I was like, Oh, can I find a way to do this? And, um, I went down that rabbit hole, which is not surprising. [00:40:54] Um, And, um, yeah, but yeah, so yeah, cause the, the, the regular stream deck has 15 [00:41:00] keys, then there’s the mini with six, and then there’s the XL with 32, which again, complete overkill. But, um, I, uh, I, again, I just, I’m, I’m, I’m the way I’m dealing with my stress is just by buying things. So [00:41:18] Brett: [00:41:18] we have like 15 minutes left and so much TV to talk about. [00:41:22] Christina: [00:41:22] let’s get into it. [00:41:23] Brett: [00:41:23] R D did you watch utopia? [00:41:27] Christina: [00:41:27] Uh, yes, I did. [00:41:28] Brett: [00:41:28] Speaking of pandemics, um, did you finish utopia? [00:41:33] Christina: [00:41:33] I did. [00:41:34] Brett: [00:41:34] How, how long did it take you to watch it? How many days did you spend, [00:41:39] Christina: [00:41:39] Uh, I don’t know. I, I watched it pretty quickly. [00:41:44] Brett: [00:41:44] man? I, I started and finished it in three days. [00:41:47] Christina: [00:41:47] yeah, I was going to say that seems about right for me. [00:41:50] Brett: [00:41:50] It was so. It, it had everything I wanted. It was okay. It was not a brand new plot idea. The idea of a pandemic where the, uh, [00:42:00] the, what, I guess I won’t spoil the plot because it’s relatively new, but it was not yeah. New idea, but the way they developed it and the actors, they got, they had Rainn Wilson. [00:42:14] Christina: [00:42:14] John Cusak. [00:42:15] Brett: [00:42:15] it was great cast, great story writing it. [00:42:19] It starts off at a Comicon. So it appeals to the nerds right away. The whole thing is based around a comic book or a graphic novel and yeah, no, it was so good. I loved [00:42:30] Christina: [00:42:30] No, I loved it too. And, um, so it was based on like, uh, uh, originally it was a British show, which I haven’t [00:42:36] Brett: [00:42:36] Oh, really? [00:42:37] Christina: [00:42:37] want to, yeah. And I want to go back and watch it, but it was based on, on a British show that came out in 2013. And, um, it was adapted by Gillian Flynn and Gillian Flynn. I don’t know if you know who she is, but she. [00:42:50] Okay. So she was, uh, for many, many years, she was a entertainment writer for entertainment weekly. And I used to love reading her stuff and she wrote a novel, uh, that did okay. But [00:43:00] didn’t get at the time kind of a lot of traction. And then she was laid off and she wrote a book while she was after she was laid off from entertainment weekly called gone girl. [00:43:11] Brett: [00:43:11] I remember it gone, girl. [00:43:12] Christina: [00:43:12] Yeah. And then, and then her, her first novel was, was adapted as a, uh, into a, a HBO show. Halt HBO show called sharp objects. [00:43:23] Brett: [00:43:23] I saw, I remember seeing the, uh, listing for that, but I never watched it. [00:43:29] Christina: [00:43:29] It’s fantastic. Amy Adams was robbed as she is always robbed of awards. She’s been nominated for God knows how many, um, uh, Oscars and, uh, yeah, she, she was robbed, but, um, yeah, no, it’s, uh, uh, at this point, um, So, yeah, so she, she, she adapted a utopia for TV and, um, I don’t know. I, I, I thought it was fantastic. [00:43:56] I also thought that, uh, but, but I love Julian Flint and I thought [00:44:00] that this is, I think the first time that she’s adapted someone else’s work because she works on sharp objects. And I believe that she worked on the script for, um, gone girl as well. But, uh, I, um, I really, really. And dark places is another one of hers. [00:44:15] But I think that, um, yeah, this is one of the first times that she’s adapted somebody else’s work and I thought utopia was great and really, really good. [00:44:25] Brett: [00:44:25] Um, I’m, I’m looking this up right now because I got the impression watching the credits that. A lot of the production and writing and, uh, direction was, uh, from females. It seemed like a very, a very female heavy cast or female heavy, uh, crew. So let’s see full cast and crew directed by. It appears that two [00:45:00] out of four of the directors were female series writing credits. [00:45:05] Oh, only Gillian Flynn was the only, only female writer on there. All right. I may have gotten an inflated perception of that. [00:45:13] Christina: [00:45:13] Yeah, it was originally supposed to be on HBO and she’d worked on it with the, with, with David Fincher. Um, but, um, there was some sort of a dispute. And so then, um, Amazon, um, ordered it. Um, and, uh, what’s so interesting about this because it is so timely is a, you know, the original stop. The original show is from 2013 and then they filmed it, um, in 2018. [00:45:38] And. Which, you know, it’s just, there’s a certain amount of just like perfect timing with the whole plot, you know? [00:45:46] Brett: [00:45:46] Yeah. [00:45:48] Christina: [00:45:48] weird. [00:45:49] Brett: [00:45:49] Although I, I worry that it may, it may affect people’s willingness to take. Uh, to get a vaccine when the vaccine does come out. [00:45:58] Christina: [00:45:58] Fair enough. Fair enough. [00:46:00] But it’s just, it’s just interesting how there’ve been a number of things like the Handmaid’s tale was the same [00:46:03] Brett: [00:46:03] Yeah. Oh, for sure. [00:46:05] Christina: [00:46:05] in production for a far before the, the, the 2016 election and then like, became that much more. Uh, like it was clear like, Oh, this is really precious. [00:46:17] And this is really timely. It’s I don’t know. I like when that happens, but yeah. Yeah. Utopia is fantastic. It’s one of the, um, I I’ve been really hit or miss on Amazon’s, uh, shows, but this was a really good one. And, and, um, I didn’t know until I was just looking this up while we were talking that it had been set up at HBO and that makes total sense because, you know, she had sharper objects there, but, uh, I, but also this seems to me, like this would be. [00:46:43] An HBO project, you [00:46:45] Brett: [00:46:45] Yeah. [00:46:45] Christina: [00:46:45] and the fact that they were able to get it for, for Amazon. I’m good on Amazon. [00:46:52] Brett: [00:46:52] Amazon also did modern love, which was an excellent, a [00:46:57] Christina: [00:46:57] modern love. [00:46:58] Brett: [00:46:58] of bottle [00:47:00] episodes where [00:47:00] Christina: [00:47:00] Anthology, I think is what they’d call [00:47:02] Brett: [00:47:02] yeah, it was very, uh, especially episode three. I don’t know if we already talked about this, but episode three, uh, start what’s her name? Uh, And Hathaway as a bipolar woman, uh, kind of dealing with, I guess you would say, uh, dating and bipolar. [00:47:26] It was kind of, well, it was the, her whole life around coming to accept and, and getting treatment for bipolar. It was very touching to me as a, a bipolar person, but they were all good. All of them. [00:47:40] Christina: [00:47:40] were, they’re all really good. I, I, and that’s, uh, that was one that I was actually really surprised about how good it was, because when I first read that they were adapting the column into kind of an anthology series at that, that I was like, all right, well, that’s interesting, but how are you going to do that? [00:47:55] And my fear was that it was going to be schmaltzy. My fear was that it was going to be either schmaltzy [00:48:00] or really on the nose. And that wasn’t the [00:48:02] Brett: [00:48:02] Yeah. [00:48:03] Christina: [00:48:03] And, uh, it, it really did, I think capture the best parts of that column, which for, for anyone who is listening, who’s not familiar. Modern love is a column in the New York times where, uh, people send in letters and they attach their real names. [00:48:17] Maybe they use pseudonyms or maybe they were allowed, but I don’t think that I actually don’t think you’re allowed to do that where they share very real and kind of raw. Sometimes uplifting sometimes not kind of perspectives on love and relationships. And it’s, it’s a, it’s a great column. Um, but I didn’t know how they were going to adapt that. [00:48:35] And, uh, I thought that they, it was a really good adaptation. [00:48:39] Brett: [00:48:39] Uh, so last, last episode, we talked about Shirley’s throne and you mentioned that I should watch old guard. So I did. [00:48:47] Christina: [00:48:47] And your [00:48:48] Brett: [00:48:48] Oh my God. I, it, I think that’s like a Netflix original, right? [00:48:53] Christina: [00:48:53] It sure [00:48:53] Brett: [00:48:53] And for, for a Netflix movie, which I shouldn’t, they’ve done some really good work, but [00:49:00] a foreign Netflix movie, I thought it was outstanding. [00:49:02] They created this, the idea of an immortal army, but with like all this gray area and heart, and, uh, it was spectacular. I really enjoyed it. [00:49:17] Christina: [00:49:17] Yeah, I thought it was, I thought it was amazing. And I don’t know if this was the case where I don’t know when Netflix got involved because Netflix has, you know, like purchased kind of like, like they, they, uh, um, um, uh, the guy who directed, um, um, Parasite, uh, they, they distributed his first film and obviously like Martin Scorsese’s last film, they distributed, but I believe that they were more heavily involved in this one. [00:49:43] And you got your right. Like, it’s just, it’s so good. [00:49:47] Brett: [00:49:47] so yeah, if you’re looking for an action movie and you liked, for least the Rhone as a, as an action hero, it, I highly recommend it. [00:49:54] Christina: [00:49:54] Yeah, it’s based on a comic book, which I’ve never read. Um, but, but people say that it’s a really good [00:50:00] adaptation and yeah, but it just continues to kind of further and cement her as she has turned into, I think the leading female action star at this point. [00:50:10] Brett: [00:50:10] yeah. [00:50:11] Christina: [00:50:11] Like, I’m trying to think. I honestly, maybe I’m wrong on this, but I’m trying to think, like, I don’t, I think a it’s kind of sad cause we don’t have a whole lot of them, but she’s not in the Marvel universe. [00:50:22] Uh, thank God. Um, and I say, thank God, because she’s better than that. And, and I will [00:50:26] Brett: [00:50:26] yeah, for sure. For sure. [00:50:27] Christina: [00:50:27] she’s, she’s better than that. And, and like scholarship, Hanson’s a great actress and whatnot, but like surely throwing us on another level. And so I’m happy to see her in things like mad max and, [00:50:37] Brett: [00:50:37] Furiosa was just like, for me, it was a turning point. In my opinion of her as action hero was a as Furiosa and mad max fury road. She was, I mean, that movie amazed me. That was like the most it’s like doing speed. The entire movie, it like never stops. [00:51:00] It’s like the chase scene from a good action film, but for two hours it was, that was amazing. [00:51:06] And she was an amazing lead character for that. [00:51:09] Christina: [00:51:09] Yeah, she was amazing in that she was great in atomic blonde, which I really liked too. And, um, yeah. Um, and, and then old guard, you know, like, but she’s, she’s been doing action stuff for the better part of, of, you know, since, I guess, I guess going back as far as these hellion job, which, which we talked about before, which I like, but she’s really, um, and it’s an interesting evolution because, um, she’s, you know, she’s in her forties now and she has kind of become. [00:51:42] That I guess, kind of Sigourney Weaver, you know, Linda Hamilton type of role accepts. And I say this with no disrespect to either Linda Hamilton or Sigourney Weaver, but she’s. Both a better actress and significantly like she’s, she’s actually like one of the most beautiful woman in the world. And it’s, and so [00:52:00] those three things, the fact that she’s got like the action aspect, she’s such a great actress and, um, you know, I’m sorry, but it is, it is, does make things different, maybe not better, but definitely different. [00:52:11] She is just this ridiculously attractive person who. Right. Like, like she, you know, it was one of the most beautiful women in the world that when they aren’t, you know, doing hours and hours of makeup on her to make her look ugly, like in monster, um, you know, like it’s this, this thing that it’s like, what I like Angelina Jolie, he could have gone this way. [00:52:34] She decided to focus on other things. But I think that Shirley’s thrawn has fulfilled the promise of that. What Angelina Jolie was doing in the. Earlier part of her career in the two thousands. And then, you know, she shifted and went into other things. Um, although obviously Angelina, Julia was younger when she was doing that, but I think that’s sort of interesting that she’s kind of fulfilled that, that role. [00:52:58] Um, it’s [00:53:00] interesting. [00:53:01] Brett: [00:53:01] Sure. Um, um, [00:53:04] Christina: [00:53:04] you’re going to tell me about the unicorn while we have a [00:53:06] Brett: [00:53:06] well actually, I’d rather talk about Ted lasso. [00:53:10] Christina: [00:53:10] Okay. Ted last. So tell me about that. [00:53:11] Brett: [00:53:11] You haven’t watched Ted last, so, and now I feel bad because we’re podcasting. When you could be watching Ted lasso. It’s so good. It is the, it’s a charming, uh, comedy. [00:53:25] Christina: [00:53:25] I’ve been meaning to watch this. Okay. Tell me about this. Cause this is, this is bill Lawrence. [00:53:29] Brett: [00:53:29] Yeah. Jason Sudeikis gets a, a job. He’s an American football coach who gets hired to be, uh, uh, a soccer, uh, British football coach. [00:53:41] Um, And it turns out he was hired under the pretense. Like there was a divorce and the woman wanted to drive her team into the ground. So she thought the way to do that would be to hire an American football coach and just make a laughing stock of the team. But it’s kind of, you know, the, [00:54:00] you would expect the, a, there to be a surprise, a surprise, good result from that, uh, would make a good TV show. [00:54:09] Um, I, I. I don’t know what I need to tell you to get you to watch it, but I guarantee you, you get two episodes and you’ll be hooked. [00:54:19] Christina: [00:54:19] No, no, no, no. I’ll I’ll I’ll you need to do all I need to, to realize was that it was created by bill Lawrence. Who is my favorite comedy television person. So he created scrubs and, um, he also did a clone high and, um, he was, he did spin city and, uh, he’s just Cougar town. Like, he’s just one of my favorites. [00:54:39] So now that I know that this is the bill Lawrence thing, right. Um, which I was not aware of. Uh, and I remember reading about this and then there’s just so much TV. I just forget. So this is an Apple TV, plus I will watch this. I will watch this, uh, probably this weekend and, uh, I will do my best. Watch this before we do our next recording. [00:55:00] [00:55:00] So. [00:55:01] Brett: [00:55:01] okay. Deal. Um, and we don’t, it won’t be an in depth conversation. I just, I just need to, I need you to have seen it for me to feel, uh, to feel whole [00:55:13] Christina: [00:55:13] Yeah, no, I mean, now I’m actually really excited to watch this because, um, I love bill Lawrence so much, so. [00:55:19] Brett: [00:55:19] the other, the other touching show you’re right. Was the unicorn, which I just kind of, I was looking, I was looking for, we like to have half hour shows, uh, to just kind of watch. Uh, when we, we want to stay up for another half an hour, but we don’t have like the, the fortitude to say for a full hour show. So it’s nice to have some half hour shows and in our pocket. [00:55:41] Um, and so we gave the unicorn a shot and it stars, I can’t remember the actor’s name. He was in eastbound and down. Um, but not the main character anyway, uh, uh, it, it does star, um, Rob Corddry, who [00:56:00] I’m a big fan of. [00:56:01] Christina: [00:56:01] I’m a big fan of, and you’re friends with Rob. [00:56:03] Brett: [00:56:03] Yeah. You could say that he, he, he responds to my texts. So I’ll call him a friend. Um, [00:56:09] Christina: [00:56:09] you’ve had them on your podcast. Like you have his phone number. Like you’re like, you can say it like, like you’re not like maybe like close friends. You’re not like, you know, it’s not like you and I are friends, but yeah. You have like a friend of yours. You, you can say that. [00:56:20] Brett: [00:56:20] And, and I’ve seen him in some really shitty stuff lately. Uh, I watched yeah. Operation end game and he played like a drunk assassin and, and it was, it was good for what it was, but it was not watch a w was not a role that really showcased his abilities. And the unicorn is, I love him in the unicorn. [00:56:41] Um, it’s, uh, [00:56:43] Christina: [00:56:43] um, I, I, I loved, um, Oh, and I see, I see I’m looking at some of the other actors. Um, this looks good, but we’ve talked about this in like probably OGE episodes of the show, but, uh, animal or children’s hospital is one of my favorite, uh, TV [00:56:58] Brett: [00:56:58] Wait, children’s hospital is a [00:57:00] perfect showcase of Rob Rob sense of humor. Like he wrote that show so you can really get a feel for what he finds funny. Uh, he did not write as far as I know on the unicorn. Uh, so it’s someone else’s humor, but his acting and he pulls it off really well. Um, [00:57:19] Christina: [00:57:19] a network show, which is interesting. Um, you usually don’t recommend network shows is, is the first season on [00:57:25] Brett: [00:57:25] Yes, Netflix. Um, So any quick synopsis, it is about a guy whose wife died a year ago and he is just now in the first episode, they finally run out of frozen meals, left over from the week. And. Uh, and eat decides it’s time to move on and start dating again. And he is informed by his friends that he is a unicorn, uh, a mature man with, uh, whose wife has died. [00:57:57] And therefore he’s not, [00:58:00] he’s, he’s, he’s good for a commitment. He is well, he’s experienced and mature and. Uh, also single and that combination makes him very popular on like dating apps, but he has a lot of bad luck with dating apps. So it’s kind of, it’s his romantic life and I’m about five episodes in on it. [00:58:18] But I love the show. I really do. It’s not even a premise that I would normally assume I would be into. Oh, wow. It works. [00:58:29] Christina: [00:58:29] Yeah, no for sure. I’m I’m I’m. Yeah. If you’re saying you’re into this, cause this doesn’t seem like this doesn’t seem like a show that you would, and the setup is very pure. Like Thursday night, CBS comedy, like this is very much like, like I’m actually surprised that that Chuck Lorre didn’t do this, although I’m happy Chuck Lorre didn’t do this because if Chuck Lorre did this, I’d be like, all right, I will begrudgingly watch this and probably laugh at times, but I’m going to hate myself because it’s Chuck Lorre. [00:58:57] Uh, cause that’s how I feel about all of his shows, but the fact that he’s [00:59:00] not part of it. Um, is, um, uh, like makes me feel better, but also the synopsis and kinda what you’re talking about totally makes me feel like I was like, yeah, this is a CBS show. So, uh, I will, I will check this out for sure, [00:59:15] Brett: [00:59:15] yeah, I laugh out loud at every episode. It’s really good writing. [00:59:20] Christina: [00:59:20] All right. Well, I will check it out. It’s also been renewed for a second season, which I don’t know if that, uh, when that will be taking place because of, you know, everything being shut down. Yeah. But that’s, uh, uh, or, I mean, hopefully they will still get a second season. Um, I don’t know if you saw this or not. [00:59:35] This was very upsetting. Uh, Glo was, was given a fourth season. They actually shot a couple of episodes and Netflix has come back and has canceled. Glow [00:59:45] Brett: [00:59:45] right? Cause they got their three Netflix seasons and then they’re done. [00:59:50] Christina: [00:59:50] But like they’d already gone into production on the fourth. Like that’s the thing that really galls me is like, they’d already like, so they’d broken the episodes. I’m sure. You know, they’d [01:00:00] like, and look, I get it. You don’t want to have maybe people under contract for, for, for however long or whatever, but also that’s a really shit move from Netflix. [01:00:07] I have to say like, so I’m very upset that glow has ended because I thought glow was one of the best shows. [01:00:13] Brett: [01:00:13] really was. [01:00:14] Christina: [01:00:14] And, um, and so, uh, I doubt CBS will do that, but you never know, like these things are weird, so, but at least as of right now, it’s been renewed for a second season, so [01:00:25] Brett: [01:00:25] All right. Alison Brie, uh, post, post community. I mean, she was great and community, I loved her character, but yeah, her, uh, her kind of, uh, she has this, uh, I would, uh, would you agree? It’s a bit of an Anne Hathaway personality. Kind of a high maintenance neurotic. [01:00:45] Christina: [01:00:45] 100%. Like she’s okay. I’m sorry. And this is not in any way denigration, but she always came across as like TB and Hathaway. [01:00:55] Brett: [01:00:55] Yeah. No, that makes sense. Like she’s someone I’m not sure I would get along with as a, as [01:01:00] a, uh, a beer drinking friend, although I bet she’s a lot of fun after a couple beers. [01:01:06] Christina: [01:01:06] No, here’s the thing. I think that’s just the character she plays because she’s married to, um, um, uh, what’s his face. Um, James, um, fuck. You know what I’m talking [01:01:19] Brett: [01:01:19] Yeah, James. Fuck. Oh, Franco. [01:01:21] Christina: [01:01:21] no. Yeah, James Franco. She she’s married to James Franco’s younger brother, Dave. [01:01:25] Brett: [01:01:25] Okay. Okay. [01:01:26] Christina: [01:01:26] And they’ve been together for a really long time. [01:01:28] And I think they, she said that they got together when they were both stoned or something. So I actually think that she is totally [01:01:35] Brett: [01:01:35] she get typecast? [01:01:36] Christina: [01:01:36] Yeah, I think so. I think that because of Annie and I think she also was, you know, Trudy on mad men. So I have a feeling we’ve we don’t actually know her personality. [01:01:47] Brett: [01:01:47] look forward to, I look forward to her getting more full fledged roles then. [01:01:51] Christina: [01:01:51] And I think she will, because glow was so good and Ruth was such an interesting character and that whole show is just really, really good. Mark Baron was great [01:02:00] in it. Um, but yeah, I’m, [01:02:02] Brett: [01:02:02] Mark Marin Merck Marin on the other hand actually, is that character. [01:02:07] Christina: [01:02:07] Mark Marin is that character. Uh, I interviewed him once and it was one of the most. Okay. So. One of the worst interviews I ever had was with David Cross, who just could not give a shit and it’s, and, and that’s fine. I understand. He was just, somebody told me I had to do the phone call. He didn’t care. I was trying to kind of, and I’m such a big fan that I was, I was trying to like, maybe find a common ground. [01:02:30] It, it didn’t work and that’s as much on me, you know, as is on him. And I actually don’t hold it against him. That’s just one of those things. Uh, Mark Marin was an interest one because the show that he, uh, was on, on IFC was coming out and they were promoting it with. So if his actual tweets and I had an interview with him and it was, he was sort of distracted and it was, it was going really poorly throughout the first half. [01:02:55] And he was like, he was like, I’m sorry, can you just give me a second? I’m dealing with simple shit. And, [01:03:00] and so I, I was like, all right, well, the interview is going really poorly and I’m about 15 seconds seconds from him hanging up on me, almost nothing to work with. So I had nothing to lose. So I’m like, okay. [01:03:11] Do you want to talk about it? And then he just kind of unloads and he’s talking about all this. Like genuinely stupid Twitter drama, where people were mad that he appeared on the Howard stern show because he’s been, he’d been at that point, like a long time, um, frequent guests on Oprah and Anthony. And, uh, he was obviously super excited to be on the stern show, but was now like literally like Twitter, random, like. [01:03:37] Eggs like people who do not matter, we’re like calling him a trader and he was like, actually really impacted by this, which was perfect for the whole story I was writing. So I kind of let him unload. Let him kind of was his therapist. And then we had a great conversation. But he is completely that character and his podcast, obviously you, you know, his personality, but, um, [01:04:00] that I believe was one of the first times that the word bullshit without being in any way, censored was published in Mashable because I quoted it directly. [01:04:10] And I, it was like in the first sentence or two of my article, uh, which, uh, Which the network incidentally loved. They thought it was funny, but yeah, that’s my only Mark Marin’s story, which is, it was probably one of the only times I’ve ever had, like, I mean, that interview was so I was so close to being hung up on. [01:04:29] I was so close to having him hang up on me and having nothing. And I had like nothing to lose and I was like, want to talk about it and then yes, exactly. As you said, he is that character 100%, but I also did love that. Like he was an. This is the most human thing about him. Cause I think all of us can relate to this, but he was like really actively like upset about dealing with like some Twitter bullshit with some like randos, like calling him like a sellout or a trader, because he wanted to [01:05:00] appear on the most iconic radio show of all time, which especially for someone of his age, like it was just one of those things where, uh, I, it endeared me to him very much. [01:05:11] I was like, yeah. You sir are all right. You were very much you and will not put on a front. Um, so, anyway, [01:05:19] Brett: [01:05:19] Um, the, uh, we should save a full long discussion about this for the next episode, but I do want to let everyone know, cause this is important that a carabiner elements came out with an update yesterday that officially supports big Sur and silicone. So that, that was like a, uh, I would not upgrade my primary machine to big Sur until that happened. [01:05:50] So that’s one less barrier. Like I’ll, I’ll run big Sur on a partition for testing, but it, I’m not [01:06:00] terribly excited about putting it on my primary machine, but that makes a big difference right there. [01:06:05] Christina: [01:06:05] That’s awesome. And this is a keyword customizer. Um, I actually, cause I’m not running Catalina. I am not running it. So I actually am ex actually, no, I’m running Catalina on one of my machine, so I need to, to install it. But yeah, we’ll talk about this in depth on our next show, which we will be recording huh. [01:06:22] In a few days. So, um, That that excites me, that that is now available. Cause I also on our next show and then we’ve got to go cause I have another meeting. Um, I, uh, I want to talk about, um, Apple Silicon in general. I want to get an update from you from what you can say on your experiences, developing on it and uh, and, and whatnot. [01:06:43] Brett: [01:06:43] We’ll see if I, uh, yeah. I’ll make some confessions at the time we do that then. [01:06:49] Christina: [01:06:49] Okay. [01:06:50] Brett: [01:06:50] Alright, well, uh, have fun at your next meeting [01:06:54] Christina: [01:06:54] Thank [01:06:55] Brett: [01:06:55] and. I hope you continue to feel better. [01:07:01] [01:07:00] Christina: [01:07:01] I appreciate that. Yeah. Um, honestly, this conversation has lifted my energy quite substantially. So [01:07:07] Brett: [01:07:07] Nothing like a little bit of rage and then some TV talk to get one going in the morning. [01:07:12] Christina: [01:07:12] honestly, this is true. [01:07:14] Brett: [01:07:14] All right. Get some sleep, Christina. [01:07:16] Christina: [01:07:16] Get some sleep, Brett.

Unscripted like never before. Left to their own devices, the discussion flows from mental health stigmas to TV shows to movies. So basically a topic list is a waste of time, those two always end up on track. Show Links Christina’s outfit The Vow Charlize Theron The Long Shot Arrested Development The Office The Princess Bride Real Genius The West Wing Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 207 [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Soundtrack: [00:00:00] Tired, so tired, overtired. [00:00:05]Christina: [00:00:05] Welcome to overtired. Uh, I’m Christina Warren. He’s Brett Terpstra. And, uh, we were just talking before we started recording that we think that this is the first time in the history of the, I don’t know, like five or six years of overtired existence that we are recording an episode early at my request. [00:00:27] Brett: [00:00:27] And as a result, it’s one of the few times we’ve ever not at least had a bullet list of potential topics. Like we are flying completely blind this episode, and anything could happen. [00:00:40] Christina: [00:00:40] I mean, we, we, well, anything except we won’t be inviting, um, uh, like, um, weird, uh, people who have museums dedicated to Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan [00:00:53] Brett: [00:00:53] still sounds like a delightful idea, [00:00:55] Christina: [00:00:55] it really does. [00:00:56] Brett: [00:00:56] on paper, it sounded like a great [00:01:00] idea. [00:01:01] Christina: [00:01:01] Faith. Thank you. Cause I, I felt bad about that over the years. I’m like, man, that was really terrible. But the concept and the reason I backed the Kickstarter was because it seemed awesome. And I was like, Oh, I would love to talk to these people. And then they were just terrible. [00:01:16] Brett: [00:01:16] Terrible people, but here’s the thing is now we have like a war story [00:01:21] Christina: [00:01:21] We do, [00:01:22] Brett: [00:01:22] something we can laugh about for years to come. [00:01:25] Christina: [00:01:25] Years and years to come. And, and for a, I don’t even know, I don’t, I don’t think that episode survived. Um, one of our migrations, but a long time, like, like cool kid listeners will recall that. Um, in the early days of overtired, we brought on some guests and, uh, it did not go well. [00:01:46] Brett: [00:01:46] I had a, I had a rough time. I don’t even, I can’t even remember. What was so wrong with it? I just remember eventually just going like silent and watching it unfold. [00:02:00] Yeah. We should start having some guests now. And then though, you know, I would love to have Ashley a Skedda back on. [00:02:08] Christina: [00:02:08] I would love to have her on too. She’s amazing. I would love to have her on and I actually kind of like threw it at him and half guilted him. But someone was mentioning because a listener was listening to us, talk about keyboards. And they’re talking about how, um, our, our, our pal Mike from really FM has gotten really into them. [00:02:28] And I was like, yes, let’s get Mike on. [00:02:31] Brett: [00:02:31] I got a really nice letter from a listener. Um, I probably should have shared it with you, but it turned into a whole like private conversation. Um, but he, he talked about how. Uh, now that he has a daughter who suffers from depression, it’s made him realize that he really doesn’t have depression. Like he has normal ups and downs, like, like people do. [00:02:54] And, uh, and it’s, it’s helped him realize that it’s nothing like [00:03:00] clinical depression, but then he also is even deeper into the mechanical keyboard thing than well, way deeper than I am. But even deeper than people I’ve known. Having he’s, he he’s a Devora keyboard user he’s [00:03:15] Christina: [00:03:15] Oh, wow. [00:03:16] Brett: [00:03:16] He also has an ultimate hacking keyboard. [00:03:18] So he’s gone through the same trials as I have trying to find custom keys to fit the weird layout, but he has gone through like every type of plastic, every type of a concave and UN UN. And sculpted and different etchings and different switches. Like he’s completely like D soldered and recycled all of his switches and it, like, he’s gone deep into it. [00:03:44] And he gave me some, some tips on where to find some, some keys and whatnot. [00:03:49] Christina: [00:03:49] Oh, that’s awesome. Um, well, if you, if you can share that part, uh, some of those [00:03:54] Brett: [00:03:54] Oh, for sure. Yeah. [00:03:55] Christina: [00:03:55] obviously don’t need to see together. But also that’s, you know what, like, I, I really [00:04:00] love that he has empathy now that he has a daughter and is able to kind of see that stuff. Cause a lot of people that’s what it takes for all of us, I think is we need to have personal experiences, but I really respect that. [00:04:10] He’s like talking about that. I think [00:04:12] Brett: [00:04:12] Yeah, well, and with my, my bipolar posts, I keep getting feedback from people that. I like for me, it’s a foreign idea. I have a, my, my parents, I come from a family that has had a mental illness and it’s background. They understand it, they accept it. I have a community that is very supportive of me and, and enjoys like they thank me for talking about it. [00:04:41] I don’t have an employer or coworkers to worry about civil. Like I get to talk about this stuff in a very raw, honest way. Without risking really anything like it. I have like zero risk doing it. And I keep hearing from people who feel like [00:05:00] they can’t for all of the reasons I just mentioned, but they have the opposite. [00:05:05] Uh, and, and when they have tried to speak out about it, uh, people live change the way they act around them. They’ve treated them differently. And so they’ve just gone silent and they don’t tell anyone what they’re struggling with. And I even had one guy who really needed, I mean, his situation, he needed to talk to somebody and I ended up being his only outlet because he felt like he had nowhere else to go. [00:05:33] And I’ll be honest, like I’m not great with personal connections. I am, I am absolutely. I will listen to anyone in that situation and I will offer what I can, but having like a face to face conversation. Hey, I didn’t realize how exactly how hard it could be for some people. [00:05:52] Christina: [00:05:52] Yeah, no, I mean, that makes me sad, but also. What makes me two things. One, I’m sad that [00:06:00] all these years post us having like very, very concrete, like scientific medical, like. You know, proof of what happens with the brain and biochemistry and in neuro diversity and all that stuff that there’s still the stigma, but I’m also heartened that at least people have a way to reach out to some others. [00:06:25] You know, that, that. That like, we always talk about how terrible the internet is because it is, but there’s something to be said. I think that we wouldn’t talk, we wouldn’t feel free or at least I wouldn’t feel free. I don’t want to speak for anybody else, but I wouldn’t feel free to kind of like clown on and make sure. [00:06:42] Uh, derogatory remarks about the internet. If the internet hadn’t fundamentally changed my life, not just for the better, but like in many ways kind of saved me. You know what I mean? And, and so, and I feel, I feel fortunate to be alive in a time when we have [00:07:00] access to that. If we’re the only reason that we can have those connections with other people and not feel as alone or, um, What or isolated or whatever, regardless of our circumstances. [00:07:12] So. [00:07:12] Brett: [00:07:12] If it weren’t for the internet, I would probably. Be around people more like, I, I would probably have to have a job in an office, which, you know, it would suck, but it would just be the way things were. But I am grateful all the time because I really would not voluntarily socialize with people as regularly as I do, if not for Twitter and Facebook and. [00:07:43] Uh, email and all of these ways that I do connect with people. Yeah. It’s, it’s important. I don’t, I life would be so different in this day and age without the internet. I can’t really [00:08:00] fathom other than having, you know, my childhood took place before the web existed. So I can remember what that was like, but I don’t know what being an adult would be like without it. [00:08:13] Christina: [00:08:13] Yeah, and for me, it’s, it’s a weird thing that my childhood. Like my young childhood did, but basically from like the age of 12 onward, I had the web. And so. Obviously kids today are born with it and they never don’t know it, but the parents do still do things like trying to, you know, change how old they are before they can interact and do certain things. [00:08:36] And so they have a concept of what it is and that it’s there, but, um, you know, It still varies. I think in terms of like how old kids are, when they become like actively online, you know, like actually communicating. And so for me, it is still one of those things where like, I feel like I’ve grown up with it to a certain extent, but I know what you mean. [00:08:54] Like, I can sort of remember what it was like before that, but I don’t know. Otherwise I know that for me, I [00:09:00] don’t, I consider myself a pretty outgoing and social person. Both in, in person and online, but I don’t know if that would be the case, if it weren’t for the internet, because of the things that I was going through in my, in my preteens and teens and things that I experienced, you know, in my real life, during those like important periods, uh, The internet was the thing that was like kind of my rescues and was the thing that, where I could go to, to know, and kind of feel like comforted that there were other people out there like me, even if they weren’t the people I went to school with. [00:09:38] And even if they weren’t the people who lived around me and even if they weren’t the people in my community, it was like that there were people like that out there. And I feel like that helped me. Be ready for college, where I met more people, you know, from different backgrounds and other stuff, but also just, you know, with, you know, giving you the confidence to like move across the country or visit people in other States or [00:10:00] take on other things. [00:10:01] I, I don’t know if I would have had that confidence to do that if I didn’t know that other people were out there who did understand me, if that makes any [00:10:14] Brett: [00:10:14] Yeah, no, it makes total sense. It would be, it would be a different life for everyone, [00:10:18] Christina: [00:10:18] Totally. That was a weird, sorry. Go on. Yeah, totally. And, and I think, yeah, it it’s, but it’s a bit, it is weird to think about. And I think it’s, it’s, it’s important. Um, for me to remind myself whenever I’m like, you know, it’s easy to be like, Oh, you know, like Twitter, what was the mistake? And I mean, sure. A social media was a mistake. [00:10:37] Sure. But there are also things that I take them that I’m like, no, but my life has been fundamentally improved and made better in ways that I can’t even calculate because of the damn internet. I mean, like, I know you to who I consider one of my close friends. Because of the internet, like we never would have met otherwise there’s no way. [00:10:55] Brett: [00:10:55] Yeah. None of, none of the ways, none of the reasons we met would have [00:11:00] existed at all, unless we both ended up writing for a print magazine. That would probably have been about, I don’t even know, like if the internet doesn’t exist, what else does it exist? Technology wouldn’t progress. Anyway, did you see the Netflix documentary about social network? [00:11:17] I think it was called the social dilemma. [00:11:20] Christina: [00:11:20] I did not. [00:11:21] Brett: [00:11:21] We should both put that on our watch list. [00:11:24] Christina: [00:11:24] Okay. I’ll add that to my watch list right now, as we’re, as we’re, as we’re talking about this, I wanted to ask you actually, before we get into any mental health corner updates, if you have any, um, also, uh, just once again, your blogs are really good and really inspiring and, and I really appreciate you writing them, but I wanted to ask you, cause I was actually thinking about this. [00:11:43] Last night slash this morning when I was still awake because of my weird, you know, um, body, um, not being back on the right time zone yet or whatever. Um, you would, we talked like one of our first episodes back about you [00:12:00] wanting to give up meat again or making that decision again. I was wanting to check in with you and see how, how is that going? [00:12:06] Brett: [00:12:06] It’s going great. I, uh, I have not given up dairy. Um, I I’m making a carbon trade off. My girlfriend has given up dairy, but she eats meat, so I don’t eat meat and she doesn’t consume dairy. So between the two of us, we’re a vegan. Um, but yeah, I’ve, I’ve completely given up meat. Uh, I tried pescatarian for a few days and decided I don’t like fish that much. [00:12:35] Um, so yeah, I’ve been, I’ve been vegetarian. I’ve been getting vegetarian meals from HelloFresh and the co op and been, yeah, I’m liking it. [00:12:46] Christina: [00:12:46] That’s that’s good. And how is it working with, uh, with you too, in terms of your separate meals? Like, is she cooking or are you still cooking meat for her? Or how is that working? [00:12:54] Brett: [00:12:54] She’s cooking her own meals. I’m cooking my own meals. I feel like for a while [00:13:00] there, I was doing a really good job of cooking for both of us. And it was really nice. Cause she’s working days now. Uh, she’s she’s doing like home care and she comes home pretty worn out. And it was really nice to be able to offer her dinner, uh, without her having to expend any more energy. [00:13:21] But we’re we’re, I don’t know how it’ll play out in the long run, but for the time being we’re cooking separate meals and doing fine with it. [00:13:30]Christina: [00:13:30] That’s good. That’s really good to know. Um, so yeah, but I just wanted to, to check in and do some follow up on that because I was curious, and that occurred to me last night slash this morning. I don’t know. So. We recorded just listeners might not know. We usually try to record on a certain day and then we release on the same day. [00:13:49] But this week we actually recorded a couple of days late. And, um, now we’re recording the day we normally record, but a couple of hours early. And [00:14:00] so when we last talked, which feels like. Just a couple of days [00:14:03] Brett: [00:14:03] It does. [00:14:04] Christina: [00:14:04] eh, you know, and it was, but, but it’s, it is, uh, it’s further back than it seems. I was talking about how I was having to like set my like circadian rep or whatever, because I was going to have to do these really long night shifts. [00:14:20] And I did that. So I did that on Tuesday night and Wednesday night. And. Then I had, I slept for a really, really long time on Thursday. Um, and then I had to wake up early yesterday to do stuff, and I thought that I was going to have some other stuff, uh, Friday afternoon that didn’t end up happening. And, and then I was going to try to go to sleep or whatever, and that didn’t really work. [00:14:43] But then I wound up taking a nap of source, which wasn’t even that long. And then I woke up at around 10 or 11:00 PM and I’ve been up. Since then. So I might just do what I can to stay up all day to day so I can get back on like a normal [00:15:00] rhythm, but, um, yeah. [00:15:03]Brett: [00:15:03] Um, so how did ignite go? [00:15:06] Christina: [00:15:06] It went really well. It went really well. Um, it was, it was weird. It was different than what we’ve kind of done before, in terms of the way our live show goes, like our, our, what we call like our, you know, ignite live or build live, which basically is kind of like our ESPN sports center style show. And when the event is in person, we actually have like a really big desk, which was kind of modeled to look like. [00:15:29] The sports center desk, I guess, massive. Um, you know, it can fit, I think, you know, eight people on it at once. Although usually only two or three of us are up there sometimes only one. And we have like a, a stage and we usually have like an, like an audience. Then we stream that out and then we bring people on and we do, you know, 15 to 30 minute interviews in this context because everything is virtual. [00:15:49] We were doing things from the studio in terms of the live host. But then our interviews are with people was, was over Microsoft teams. Uh, but it was in the, the Microsoft production studios, [00:16:00] not our channel line studios and channel nine is kind of our scrappy little kind of like. Underground thing like we do, like the team, uh, does unbelievable, amazing work, um, on almost no budget and with very few resources. [00:16:12] Uh, but the Microsoft production studios is like, I mean, the people who are on the crew, let’s put it this way. Most of them. Well, I think it was a fully union crew, but most of the people who were, uh, crewing had worked in live television, you know, like, like, uh, one of our, uh, stage managers for part of our shift, uh, works on Jimmy Kimmel show and is, is furloughed right now. [00:16:38] And it’s just kind of waiting for him to bring everybody back on. And, you know, people have worked, you know, in, in television and suffer for years. And, um, even though it’s, it’s a small setup, it is, uh, Very similar to when I used to do like live TV, um, on, on cable networks and whatnot. And so, uh, [00:17:00] obviously what is different is that fat is not, the normal approach will be have for this sort of thing. [00:17:06] This is a lot more professional in that sense. And then there are additional kind of restrictions and requirements around how social distancing works. So the host and I, uh, my cohost and I like. Even though we weren’t wearing masks on set. We were still having to be six feet apart at all times. Um, you know, from the desk and whatnot, uh, the crew and, uh, everybody else in the production was, was wearing masks. [00:17:29] You know, there were separate makeup artists for each person and, you know, the cleaners were coming through all the time. So it was really safe and, and I, and that was similar to Microsoft build. But this time, um, there was more, I guess, Some of the program, some of the was just a little bit different. And so that was a kind of interesting getting used to the first day, Seth and I didn’t have as much to do the second day was a little bit busier, but it was just kind of a bunch of like, kind of like [00:18:00] hurry up and go and, and introducing different segments. [00:18:02] But what was good about it was that when I did Microsoft build in may. And we did a similar thing where it was 72 hours live this time. It was 48 hours, uh, with build, um, I was by myself and so I did, I didn’t have anybody doing the live segments with me. I had, I had remote hosts. Out of the UK, uh, who, who were doing things, but none of us were in the same space together. [00:18:28] And I was just kind of alone with the crew in the studio. And this time I had Seth Woraz, who was amazing. He is like a, uh, um, he’s practically PhD, but he just hasn’t completed his thesis or whatever. Um, and, um, um, Comp science and AI and machine learning, but he’s one of our advocates and he’s also just amazing on camera, super smart guys, super, uh, like congenial and also very, very relatable on camera. [00:18:55] Just a terrific guy. And so he, and I just had a blast together [00:19:00] from, you know, our on air time was like, I think from like 11:00 PM until 7:00 AM the first day. And then it was like 11:00 PM until like, like 8:00 AM, um, the second day. And, uh, We had it. We had a really good time. So that was fun. [00:19:16] Brett: [00:19:16] I, uh, I didn’t, I didn’t see any of it. I’m not, but I did see your outfits on [00:19:22] Christina: [00:19:22] Yes. Well, thank you. That’s the most important part. Thank you very much. Yeah, I know. Honestly, the outfits are the best part. Yeah, no, I have to say like the content and it’s really fun when I get to interview people. Like I did a session on Microsoft edge coming to Lennox, which was cool. And, and there were some other interviews I did with some kind of amazing women in the community who were, were really, really outstanding. [00:19:43] Yeah. But I’m going to be honest, whether it’s the live show or like what we are now doing in studios, for me, the best part of these things is always the fact that I get to, I know I’m going to get to dress up and do something cool with my clothes and bring [00:20:00] my style into it a little bit, which I appreciate that Microsoft doesn’t like. [00:20:06] Make me stick to, not that anything that I, that I wear would in any way be inappropriate, but you know, I’m not like I’m not like wearing corporate, like, you know, dress stuff like it’s it’s right. I’m not doing that. I mean, I could, but like I w I was wearing, like, I wore like a, a hoodie dress the first day. [00:20:23] And the second day I had like a jumpsuit, which was just [00:20:25] Brett: [00:20:25] That was my favorite was the [00:20:27] Christina: [00:20:27] Yeah. Mine too, which is just fantastic. Uh, and. [00:20:30] Brett: [00:20:30] goth, Debo. [00:20:31] Christina: [00:20:31] Yes, completely, completely. It was like retro futurism. It was just really, it was really good. Um, and like, uh, for build one year, um, the live event I had like this amazing dress that I got from diesel when I was in Dubai. [00:20:44] And the dress was so good. It was just it’s, um, sleepless and it’s really form-fitting and it’s just awesome. And that it has kind of like these futuristic kind of looks Japanese. Like it just, it has just, it’s just an amazing looking dress [00:21:00] and. People were, and then the woman, uh, Joseph who’s one of our senior managers and she also did my makeup and hair and she’s just fantastic. [00:21:08] She did, she made me look just incredible and people were coming up to me. I had like people asking to get photos with me. Not because they knew me, but because they wanted it because of the dress, because they like wanted to show people that somebody, I guess, was at a developer conference, like. Dress like that. [00:21:26] I’m like, yeah, I am hi. Welcome to build. Uh, so yeah. Sorry. I’ll stop rambling now. [00:21:33] Brett: [00:21:33] No, that’s all right. I used to get really into dressing up. Like I owned so many suits and, and nice shirts and matching ties and cuff links and socks and a rack of belts. Like I used to be, it used to really make me happy to get dressed up. And then I gained weight and. And didn’t buy new clothes and then I lost a bunch of weight. [00:21:59] So the [00:22:00] clothes I did have didn’t fit anymore, and I’ve never really built my dressy wardrobe back up. I basically had a drawer full of t-shirts, um, and, uh, maybe five pairs of jeans that I kind of rotate between, but I just, if, if a formal occasion were to come up right now, Or if I had to be on screen for something other than some video cast, I don’t think I would have to go clothes shopping, which also might be fun. [00:22:30] I kinda miss it. [00:22:32] Christina: [00:22:32] Yeah. Yeah, I honestly, I had, so I bought both of the things that I got. I bought them both online and I was worried about how they were going to fit and both fit. Well, I actually could have gone a size smaller in the jumpsuit. It was an extra small, I could have it probably should have done the extra, extra small, but, uh, I know. [00:22:49] Um, but, um, But that’s actually not a good thing. That’s a whole other topic, but, uh, but yeah, I, I had to buy them online and that’s always hard. [00:23:00] Uh, I miss clothes shopping, but I also know what you mean in terms of, you know, like we’ve talked about this before. Like when I gained weight, um, I didn’t get rid of all my other clothes and I got some other clothes, you know, I had to fit into which then I got rid of those when I lost weight, but it, it has made me weirdly. [00:23:17] Like since I’ve lost the weight again. And it’s been several years now, like not that I was ever ungrateful or not that I was ever took it for granted, but it’s made me just that much more like, okay. Um, if I ha if I have the ability to, to look nice and, and, you know, get the stuff like, I’m not, I’m not taking that for granted and I’m going to. [00:23:39] Going to do that and try to embrace that, which when I was a kid clothes shopping was the worst thing in the entire world. It was like the most horrific know, but like, it was just, it was, um, for me because of the size that I was and how it was different from my peers and how like my puberty was like, and all that stuff, like it was genuinely like a traumatic experience [00:24:00] going clothes shopping when I was like, you know, uh, early teens and even in high school, it wasn’t great. [00:24:06] And, um, then I went through a period where I really liked it and like, I’m never gonna take it for granted because I know that I could change. So I, when I have the excuse to, to go all out and shop, I do, [00:24:22] Brett: [00:24:22] Yeah. I, I used to have an Oscar dealer renter tux from my wedding and it, after I lost all the weight, I was able to fit back into it. And so in the back of my mind, at least if the occasion came up, I own my own tux and I wouldn’t have to rent some ill fitting shitty tux. Um, and then we had a cat that, yeah, I don’t know what problems were going on, but it started spraying and it sprayed the pants [00:25:00] of the tux. [00:25:01] And I think, I don’t think I had it say in the matter, I think L threw them out. Uh, I don’t think she realized how much they were worth. But, but I’m not sure even if she hadn’t that I would have been able to make them wearable. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to get cat pee out of something. It’s, it’s very difficult. [00:25:23] So even [00:25:25] Christina: [00:25:25] not, but you know what, like I know that that’s, that’s the smell that lingers. [00:25:32] Brett: [00:25:32] I woke up to skunk smell last night. It is some, we don’t have great well-insulated windows. And I think a skunk either got hit or, or just sprayed near our house because last night I could not, could not sleep through the smell. It was awful and it lasts forever. You probably don’t have a lot of skunks in your big city life. [00:25:56] Christina: [00:25:56] No, no, we don’t. I mean, um, at least not where I [00:26:00] live, it’s I’m sure that people who live like, cause the suburbs are real close. I’m sure that many of them do, but, uh, we sure don’t we have a, we have plenty of other things that smell real bad, but yeah. [00:26:14] Brett: [00:26:14] This conversation has been so random. I’m not sure it’s been more random than our usual conversations, but it feels more random because we don’t have a bullet list. [00:26:23] Christina: [00:26:23] Yeah, this is true. This is true. Um, okay. So on our billet list, now that we’ve done, we’ve, we’ve talked about some stuff I’ve rambled for a bit. Uh, do we have any mental health corner updates? How are you feeling? How’s the depression [00:26:35] Brett: [00:26:35] I actually, I actually don’t have anything to add this week. It’s been like a totally stable, totally normal healthy week for me. I I’m I’m I’m doing well. How about you? [00:26:48] Christina: [00:26:48] Uh, yeah, I mean, I’m pretty good. It’s it’s again, like, it’s been a weird thing just because I, you get the adrenaline and the high from like the live stuff, at least I do, but then it was also, you know, just the weird [00:27:00] time zone of it all. Like, um, I, my body. Has been used to and has been really good at switching, you know, like what cadence it’s awakened asleep at because I traveled so much, but it’s been now eight months since I’ve traveled. [00:27:14] So, uh, that, that was a weird thing to kind of get used to. So [00:27:21] Brett: [00:27:21] If, uh, [00:27:21] Christina: [00:27:21] otherwise I’m good. [00:27:22] Brett: [00:27:22] if the world changes and you start traveling again, what, what are we going to do with this show? Are you going to find a way to make it work? [00:27:31] Christina: [00:27:31] Yeah, that’s absolutely. That’s what I did with what I did with rocket. Yeah. Rocket, we never missed an episode. If anything, there were a couple of weeks that I missed, but for the most part, what would happen would be even if like the only thing that would make it weird would be if I was going to be on stage during a recording time, then there would need to be an adjustment. [00:27:48] But there were plenty of times when I was up at ridiculous times of. The night in Europe where, um, it’s like nine or 10 hours ahead of Pacific time. [00:28:00] And so, you know, um, like, you know, uh, seven or, or, um, uh, six or seven hours ahead of, uh, Eastern time. And I would still, you know, it was like, you know, it’s like, I have to get up at two or 3:00 AM or whatever I’ll be like, okay, that’s fine. [00:28:17] I’ll do the, I’ll do the recording. So yeah, [00:28:19] Brett: [00:28:19] if, if that happens and we have a sponsor and we just can’t miss a week, I’m gonna, I’ll beg Ashley to, uh, to come in and cohost in your, in your absence for a week. [00:28:32] Christina: [00:28:32] I think that would be completely fine. I think that’d be completely fine, but yeah, no, I mean, if we, um, but no, I mean, I was pretty good about like making that work also. There’s the work travel stuff. That’s such an interesting, at least for this sort of travel that I was doing, there would be, you know, speaking to the conferences and doing all that stuff, which takes a lot out of you, but then there would be additional things in, in night activities and other stuff. [00:28:58] And so having to stay up later or [00:29:00] whatever, wouldn’t be a big deal, you know what I mean? Like, or get up earlier or whatever. Um, yeah, I mean, there, there are parts of me that, I mean, well, no, there’s a lot of me that misses travel. I miss travel a lot, but. Um, it’s, it’s just weird how much my body has, like ha has to reacclimate to that kind of stuff. [00:29:22] And, and, but, but to be totally honest, I don’t know when I’m going to be able to do that again. Like I have a feeling at least for work stuff. It’ll probably be a very long time before that’s gonna be the case, which is a shame, but it is what it is because, you know, [00:29:36] Brett: [00:29:36] Well, because you were traveling for conferences, right? [00:29:39] Christina: [00:29:39] exactly. [00:29:40] Brett: [00:29:40] Conferences. Aren’t going to be a thing for the foreseeable future. [00:29:44] Christina: [00:29:44] Exactly. It’s all this online stuff and that’s fine, but yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I was traveling for conferences and usually like, you know, fairly deep international travel at bat and that’s probably going to take even more time to come back or at least to the point [00:30:00] where people would want to bring people from the United States in like, I, I, I would, if I buy we’re in another country right now and we were like, yeah, you’ve got the clearance to open up. [00:30:10] Not real sure that I would be like, yes, let’s invite speakers from the United States of America. [00:30:16] Brett: [00:30:16] Yeah. [00:30:16] Christina: [00:30:16] real sure I do that. [00:30:17] Brett: [00:30:17] Yeah. I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t. So did you watch woke? [00:30:23] Christina: [00:30:23] No, I didn’t. I had no time. [00:30:25] Brett: [00:30:25] I gave you homework and [00:30:27] Christina: [00:30:27] know you gave me, I know you did. I know you did. Yes. I completely failed. I’m very sorry. I did not watch woke. I haven’t watched. Anything really, except for the newest episode of the vowel, which is the show about Nexium on HBO. [00:30:41] Brett: [00:30:41] Okay. [00:30:42] Christina: [00:30:42] Are you familiar with [00:30:44] Brett: [00:30:44] I am not, [00:30:45] Christina: [00:30:45] Okay. [00:30:46] Brett: [00:30:46] I did just get HBO though. So if there’s a show I need to watch, I can do it. [00:30:51] Christina: [00:30:51] amazing. Okay. So succession is one that you need to watch, which I told you last week. Okay. But the vow is, I think it’s an eight part documentary series and [00:31:00] it is about this. Cult frankly called Nexium INAX. Um, I V M and it was, was it ensnared, a lot of women and a lot of people kind of presented itself as like a self health sort of thing. [00:31:16] And then turned into, like, there was like within the organization, there was a sub-organization where. Women basically became sex slaves to the male [00:31:26] Brett: [00:31:26] I am [00:31:26] Christina: [00:31:26] of the whole thing. Yeah, this is, this is the thing with Alison Mack, the girl from one of the girls from Smallville, who she was like big wig on it, big wick in it. [00:31:35] Anyway, uh, the, the documentary is really, really good. It’s I think five parts have been released so far. I’m not sure how many more left, but it’s really, really good. Um, Some of the people have been in other projects, Sarah Edmondson, who’s a Canadian actress who was like a huge recruiter in the organization. [00:31:56] She’s the one who is pretty [00:32:00] much responsible for bringing it to the public attention and kind of getting it shut down. There had been a lot of expos A’s over the years about them and what they were doing and people are kind of complained about stuff, but she was in this women’s only organizational though. [00:32:13] She never slept with the. The big white guy and she was branded like they branded women. Like they like, you know, like branded their skin. And when she realized that the branding was this dudes initials and that he was involved, she was just horrified. And so she got really upset and she left and she also found out more information and she left and she went to the press and ended up being a big part of a New York times story. [00:32:38] That was that led basically to the FBI, getting involved and investigating and then getting them for, um, you know, uh, not just, uh, like tax evasion and all kinds of other kinds of things, but also like, Sex trafficking. And so she’s, uh, she was in a podcast that the CBC did [00:33:00] called, um, escaping Nexium. And that was really good, but this is a different sort of thing. [00:33:07] What I like about the series is that, and I read one of the reviews mentioned this, so I’m stealing this from someone, but it was a really pertinent point. Most like documentaries about cults, really focus on the cult leaders themselves. And this one, doesn’t, it focuses on the victims and the people who’ve left and it kind of Chronicles the period of, of them leaving up through I’m. [00:33:31] I’m guessing it’ll go through the trial and, and other stuff. But, um, I appreciate that that perspective is very much focused on the members. Like the individuals, the people who left the people who are the victims, rather than building behavioral graphy. Of the, the cult leader and how people could be, you know what I mean? [00:33:50] Like it’s not really about him at all. And it’s, it’s, it’s about their experiences, which is really good. So. [00:33:58] Brett: [00:33:58] I will, I will check it out. [00:34:00] I, uh, my, I watch blow the man down on Amazon, which was okay. But I, I indulged in one of my favorite types of movies and I’m almost embarrassed to admit how much I like heist movies, but [00:34:15] Christina: [00:34:15] love heist movies. [00:34:17] Brett: [00:34:17] It’s the same formula every time, but every time I have fun, um, I watched the, uh, now you see me do Oh, uh, number one is still a lot of fun. [00:34:29] Number two does not. If you watch number one and number two in succession, number two is an awful movie. You ever watched those? Have you seen [00:34:39] Christina: [00:34:39] know. I haven’t, I’ve never seen him at all. [00:34:41] Brett: [00:34:41] Oh, they’re fun. Well, the first one’s fun. [00:34:44] Christina: [00:34:44] Okay. All right. I’ll watch the first one. No, I love a good height. I kept saying, uh, to, to the crew, I was like, I would kept quoting them love and I was like, it’s nice to be working with proper villains again. Um, yeah, no, I love a good heist movie. I love, uh, the [00:35:00] Italian job. [00:35:00] Like even the remake, you know? [00:35:03] Brett: [00:35:03] Yeah. The remake stood on its own. It was really good. [00:35:06] Christina: [00:35:06] good. And honestly, that was the first one. Like it took him a few more years to figure it out, but that was the first one where Shirley’s thrawn was like a badass action star. And it took a few more years for them to really like cast her in those roles. But she held her own and like, she did a lot of her own stunts driving and stuff, even though. [00:35:23] Some of the, like, she was underestimated because I think when she was cast in that, that was before she won the Oscar for monster. And, you know, she’s like super hot and like tall and Charlie’s throng. And so, you know, they, weren’t probably treating her with respect that they should have, but, you know, um, yeah, I, um, [00:35:45] Brett: [00:35:45] I like that Shirley’s has become an action hero. [00:35:47] Christina: [00:35:47] I do too. I do too. Have you seen, what is it, uh, the, uh, the old guard or what is it [00:35:52] Brett: [00:35:52] No, that’s on my list. It’s [00:35:54] Christina: [00:35:54] It’s really [00:35:54] Brett: [00:35:54] next up on my list actually. That’s Netflix, right? [00:35:57] Christina: [00:35:57] Yeah. That’s Netflix. Yeah, that’s fantastic. That’s [00:36:00] really, really good. [00:36:01] Brett: [00:36:01] Yeah. It looked good. Um, I did enjoy her in the movie she did with what’s his name? The stoner guy. Um, funny, funny guy. He did the night before. Um, you got nothing. Um, Oh man. She did a movie where she was a politician and he was, uh, okay, I’m going to lose it now. [00:36:30] I’m going to look it up while we’re talking here so that I don’t [00:36:35] Christina: [00:36:35] Right. Are you sooner guys? So are we talking like Seth [00:36:37] Brett: [00:36:37] yes, yes. That’s the one Seth Rogan. And Shirley’s the Rhone. Um, um, I’m headed to, I am DB. We’re going to find this. It’s called [00:36:52]a filmography. I love IMD be on the phone, [00:36:57] Christina: [00:36:57] I know, [00:36:57] Brett: [00:36:57] but it’s not, not as good on the [00:37:00] web. Um, man. I don’t see it. I hope I hope I didn’t mix up actresses. Oh, wait. This is her producer credits. Why would I want to see [00:37:12] Christina: [00:37:12] No, it’s, it’s called it’s called long [00:37:14] Brett: [00:37:14] Yes. That’s the one that I enjoyed that I, I’m not a stoner. Like I haven’t smoked weed since my teens, but I do enjoy Seth. [00:37:26] And just about everything he does. [00:37:28] Christina: [00:37:28] No, he’s great. I enjoy him too. Um, he’s he’s great. And yeah, I actually, now that I’m looking at the, uh, uh, uh, I guess poster for it, I remember this, this was fun. [00:37:39] Brett: [00:37:39] Yeah. [00:37:40] Christina: [00:37:40] movie. Uh, she’s, she’s very funny. That’s the thing about her, Julie. She’s a great action star, but she’s very funny. Um, I, my late uncle always, he was very right about this. [00:37:50] We would, you know, I loved the TV show, arrested development and people really, I think a Fox, a hard time about it canceling the show. They’re like, Oh, [00:38:00] you didn’t give it a chance and whatnot. And like, That’s actually completely not true. Like Fox gave it very good time slots. Like for a period of time, it was after American idol, like American idol was its lead in. [00:38:10] They couldn’t have done it any better. And then the third season, when yeah, they did kind of mess with the schedule, but this was after they had like a six or seven episode arc with Cheryl. The Iran [00:38:20] Brett: [00:38:20] As the mentally [00:38:21] Christina: [00:38:21] the ratings. [00:38:22] Brett: [00:38:22] school [00:38:22] Christina: [00:38:22] Yes completely. Yes. Mr. F, but, but, um, but it’s like when Charlie’s thrawn, can’t bring in viewers, like, what else are you wanting to network to do? [00:38:32] Like, they gave it three seasons, like honestly, uh, at a certain point, you know, the way they burned it off was kind of sad or whatever, but it was like, you know, like they still. They still did air them and, and, you know, the show eventually came back to Netflix or whatever, but at a certain point, I was like, look, I love this show more than probably most people. [00:38:51] But if Shirley, like my uncle said, he was like, if Shirley’s throwing us, I’m going to get people to watch. Like the is just not, it’s just [00:39:00] not going to work on this format and it didn’t. So, yeah. But she’s very funny. Yeah. I love that show. [00:39:06] Brett: [00:39:06] I still quote it. Uh, and half the time I quote it and I, it takes me a while to even remember what I’m quoting from. Like, I’ll just remember the lines and there’ll be so mundane that I won’t be able to place them. And then it’ll come back to me. And then half the time, I can’t remember the name of the show. [00:39:23] I’ll be like, Oh, it’s from, it’s from it’s from, uh, and then yeah. Then people have gotten used to that enough that they’ll just assume that I’m talking about arrested development. When I can’t remember the name of a show, even though they’ve never seen it. It’s weird. How many people never saw arrested development [00:39:42] Christina: [00:39:42] Really I, at this point I figured out almost everybody had, but I guess it’s just kinda my own life, little [00:39:47] Brett: [00:39:47] you’re in so insular little world. Yeah. Out in the real world, people and people may have heard of it, but they didn’t watch it. But I mean, like you said, it had basically primetime [00:40:00] slotting on box. It’s so weird that people didn’t get into it. I don’t know. [00:40:05] Christina: [00:40:05] Well, I feel like it was especially the era when it came out, it was such a different sort of show like that was at that point. Single camera comedies were still fairly new. And the humor on it, especially how integrated the jokes were. I really feel like that was the sort of show that you got it, the more you watched it. [00:40:26] It was one of those things that if you watch, it’s like if you got it on DVD and you watched it over and over again, and you could pick up on the little things, then you would pick up on the jokes who would pick up on the tells you would pick up on the signs. And so it was really, it was made for the streaming age it was made for binge-watching. [00:40:42] Brett: [00:40:42] it had a lot of running jokes that wouldn’t be funny. If you didn’t have this long history there, they become like inside jokes for [00:40:51] Christina: [00:40:51] Exactly. Well, and then they even had setups set up things like, you know, like Buster losing his hand, um, with, basically from the first episode of the second [00:41:00] season. And there were certain setups and certain jokes that even went from like somewhere in the first season that didn’t pay off until like the end of this series. [00:41:06] But it was clear that they had. Thought about this. Like it wasn’t just a, Oh, this’ll be a funny thing. Like there were clearly like set ups for this and, and it was really smart that way, but these were things you would only know if you watched over and over again. And I remember I didn’t watch the, like, I guess like the first few episodes. [00:41:23] But at some point I caught it. It’s first season Erin on box, and then they, they rerun it and FX ran it, I believe, um, concurrently and I was able to catch up and I then got it on DVD as soon as the first season came out on DVD. And I remember I was dating this guy who lived in another state and he was visiting me. [00:41:40] This was when I was in college and he was Zimmy and showing him the show and us spending like a big part of his visit, just. Binge watching the entire thing and just loving him. He became a huge fan and that was the case with a lot of my friends. It’s like they would have to borrow the DVDs or buy the DVDs and people would, would see it on DVD. [00:41:59] And [00:42:00] then when it got on streaming now on Netflix or Hulu or whatever, I think it was Netflix who had it. It was for a long time, like one of Netflix’s most popular shows. And that was why all those years later Netflix was able to make the deal and say, okay, we will help fund and bring this back. And, and, um, You know, and that didn’t work as well. [00:42:20] Everybody had kind of moved on. They weren’t able to get people in the same rooms and, um, the way that they kind of did the setup like it, you know, they try, but you can’t, you kind of can’t re you know, capture kind of the magic. Although there were some funny things, I think, leader in that first series of episodes and then the second group, um, I think was a little bit better, but, um, yeah, I feel like that was a show where. [00:42:43] It was both too, just slightly, just slightly ahead of it time. And then streaming was really where it would thrive. I think a similar corollary modern wise would be the good place, [00:42:57] Brett: [00:42:57] Yeah. [00:42:59] Christina: [00:42:59] the good place. [00:43:00] Like really, I think the reason that NBC renewed it so often, you know, we got four seasons. I don’t think NBC would have renewed it. [00:43:06] If it hadn’t been so successful on streaming. But because it w but it’s the same thing where like, you watch it over and over again, and you catch little things and you catch the setups and, and that’s the sort of thing that’ll keep you intrigued. [00:43:18] Brett: [00:43:18] I always kind of amazed that they managed to pull off four seasons off that premise for the good place. Uh, they [00:43:26] Christina: [00:43:26] they did a great job with it. [00:43:27] Brett: [00:43:27] Yeah, it was great. [00:43:28] Christina: [00:43:28] They did an amazing job. Michael shore, uh, is one of my favorites. I love parks and recreation. I love to stuff on the office. Um, he’s, he’s awesome. Um, the office is another one, right? Like that it is, this is no longer what we’re just talking about TV now, but no, but this is actually sort of interesting. [00:43:45] So you’re, the office obviously was successful still at NBC and it aired for nine seasons and it won Emmys and, um, it kind of revitalized their, you know, comedy kind of thing that had been there in the nineties, but it [00:44:00] was never the success that it is now. Like, The first season, that show was almost canceled and that’s very public. [00:44:07] They only did like six episodes. And then the second season when they rebooted it and they made some very, very important changes to the characters and some of the other things, it started to build an audience. But what’s interesting is that then it kind of died off at a certain point, you know, and like they still aired it because it was a hit and had won Emmys and, and had, you know, um, you know, it was just kind of a thing. [00:44:29] Fill their schedule. But it wasn’t like people were still watching it and talking about it all the time, then it goes to streaming and it was, I mean, this is public now, but I actually knew this before it was public because I have friends who used to work at Netflix and had access to this data. It was the most popular television show on Netflix. [00:44:48] Like it was the most popular program on Netflix. Yes. By a pretty substantial margin. [00:44:53] Brett: [00:44:53] I talked to so many people that hated that show. [00:44:57] Christina: [00:44:57] What bright, but this is the interesting thing is that it became this [00:45:00] massive, massive second life on Netflix to the point that, you know, um, when Netflix lost friends, that was a big deal. And that was obviously painful for them. [00:45:11] And, and, um, Warner brothers paid, you know, a billion dollars or some something. Something stupid. They paid some stupid amount of money to get the exclusive rights on HBO max, but the office, which is on peacock. And I believe it’s still on, on, um, Hulu right now, but it’s going to be like leaving, um, or no, it, it, uh, no it’s left that to it. [00:45:33] It is now exclusively on, um, uh, peacock or whatever. Uh, No, I think that they have like some sort of exclusive period, but that was like a hard thing probably for them to even get like, in some ways I think losing that was probably a bigger loss for Netflix than losing friends. Just because a, I guarantee you that Netflix paid a lot more for friends. [00:45:58] We know that they did for the final year. They [00:46:00] agree to some ridiculous, like. You know, like amount of money to pay for, for getting it for an additional year of streaming, but B I think the, just the syndication package all up, just because friends is like the most successful sitcom of all time. Like that was gonna be more expensive than the office was. [00:46:14] And yet the office was like this not high budget shows like, like the, the cast of friends, they were making like 2 million episodes, an episode, the final season, right? Like nobody on the office ever made a million dollars an episode like Steve Carell probably got 500,000 at his peak. And, and he probably could have asked for more, but didn’t, uh, but, but certainly like, you know, uh, the next highest paid person would’ve been Rainn Wilson and, and he, he wasn’t making that kind of money. [00:46:42] You know, this was not, no, it would be Rainn Wilson. I mean, I think Jim like was, was next in line, but, um, in terms of like, uh, Rainn Wilson got top billing after Steve Carell left. [00:46:54] Brett: [00:46:54] Huh? I didn’t realize that I binged that show this year, [00:46:59] Christina: [00:46:59] I love [00:47:00] that show [00:47:00] Brett: [00:47:00] the entire thing. And I, it, it as a, as a very, if you watch the whole thing over a couple of weeks, It is really amazing. The character development that they go through and Michael, especially like, cause you don’t just develop Michael as a character, you actually watch him grow as a person and, and become an actual person because in the beginning, he’s very much, um, stunted, both in character development and as his personality. the end, you, you have this like deep feelings for Michael and really kind of a. [00:47:43]Christina: [00:47:43] Yeah, no. And that’s the case with a lot of them. And I think that, I think that was actually what was key to making the show work because the British version was, you know, David Brent was not. A character like you, you didn’t want to sit with eyes with him. Right? Like he wasn’t that kind of guy [00:48:00] and never really evolved. [00:48:01] Um, and that was fine. His character on extras for future based on extras is a little bit different. Right. But, but on the office, he didn’t have that and that doesn’t work on American TB. And I think that that’s what they figured out for the first six episodes is that they were trying too hard and they’re like, okay, we need to make, they, they, they made a very key change and that the change went. [00:48:22] She made the, made him like David Brent was never competent in the first few episodes of the show. Michael, Scott’s really not competent. And you really don’t know why he’s the boss and he’s just kind of full of himself. And then it switched into this thing where it’s like, okay, he was this really amazing sales guy. [00:48:40] And they just kept promoting him, even though he had no business being in management. And then his thing went into being like he just desperately wanted to be liked. And that’s relatable and that’s something that works and that I think is why that character grew and evolved. And like you rooted for him. [00:48:57] And we’re like happy to see him get his happy [00:49:00] ending. [00:49:00] Brett: [00:49:00] Yeah. I ended up seeing a lot of myself in Michael. Uh, not, it’s kind of like when I was watching that, uh, the dating show for autistic people. Um, this, uh, they were on the outside. What I always felt like on the inside and, and Michael was much like that, like the way that he would react to people, the, the thin skin that he had, um, the obtuseness he had to social cues. [00:49:28] Who’s like, I, all of that was related to me. So I did become like emotionally invested in his, his growth and his development as a character. [00:49:39] Christina: [00:49:39] Totally. Totally. I mean, and there were some episodes, I don’t know. It’s hard for me to watch sometimes. Cause the cringe is too much, but like the, the, the, the, the Scott’s tots episode [00:49:46] Brett: [00:49:46] Yeah, [00:49:48] Christina: [00:49:48] is like hard to watch [00:49:50] Brett: [00:49:50] it is. Oh my God. Um, for anyone who hasn’t seen it, he, he basically promises a classroom of kids that if they [00:50:00] graduate high school, I think he’ll buy them or to pay for their [00:50:04] Christina: [00:50:04] their tuition. Yeah. [00:50:05] Brett: [00:50:05] And, and then it happens and he realizes there’s no way he could ever afford to do that. And so he has to go in and listen to their, their heart warming stories and then tell them, Oh, just kidding. It’s harsh. It’s [00:50:21] Christina: [00:50:21] Honestly, honestly, even you talking about it, like, I feel like shills, like it’s one of those things that’s like, and, and, and what’s, that was, uh, also though, like there there’s like a song, like, like, Hey, mr. Scott, what’s she gonna do? You know, what’s you got to do, what are your dreams come true? And, um, the character Aaron that, um, uh, uh, Ellie, um, Kimball, Kemper played, uh, like, is it she’s and I loved her character. [00:50:47] I really did like the way that she is with him. When they’re in that school. Wow. Yeah, that that’s good TV. Um, one of my favorite moments from earlier in quarantine [00:51:00] was the, it was the anniversary of the airing of the episode, the dinner party. That’s the one where we’re we’re we’re Jan and Michael had the dinner party. [00:51:09] Brett: [00:51:09] Yeah. And they have the big fight and everyone. Yeah. [00:51:13] Christina: [00:51:13] Yeah. And so, um, the office Twitter account and, and some of the people like live tweeted it and there was like a live viewing of it. It was pretty great. Uh, yeah. Um, yeah, no. So, so it is still on Netflix, but it will be going to officially a peacock exclusively in January, but yeah. Um, it’s one of those shows that like, whenever it goes on sales, on iTunes, I use this app called cheap charts and I get alerts and I always like tell my friends who I know are really into it. [00:51:40] I’m like, okay, the whole series is $30. Buy it, you know? So you can watch it when it leaves Netflix or whatever. Um, because yeah, it’s just one of those things. Like I. I have, I have the iTunes version. I also have it on blue Ray. I have various things on DVDs. I’ve I’ve gotten a lot of enjoyment out of that show. [00:51:57] Brett: [00:51:57] So speaking of quarantine and going back [00:52:00] to Sharley surrounds filmography, have you watched any of the, uh, the princess bride, TB shorts [00:52:08] Christina: [00:52:08] I have not. [00:52:10] Brett: [00:52:10] like, [00:52:10] Christina: [00:52:10] I know they’re doing like readings. [00:52:12] Brett: [00:52:12] Right. And it’s basically, they’re acting it out. And every scene is different actors playing the characters and they do like a live reading of it and they act it out, but all in like, uh, like iPhone photography and from their homes. [00:52:32] And if you have nostalgia for the princess bride, which most of my generation seems to have like. Severe enoughness solid jet for the princess bride. Um, it’s, it’s kind of a delight to watch. [00:52:44] Christina: [00:52:44] Yeah. Okay. So this is where I have to admit, um, and I’m going to lose my, all my nerd cred. Well, nah, I don’t think all of it cause I’m I have enough to get back in other ways. I’m not a big fan. [00:52:55] Brett: [00:52:55] no, it’s a very select like it was, [00:53:00] I think my sister liked it even more than I did, but it was very much like this. Kind of, I think maybe eight year span of people age wise, who just found it to be like the pinnacle of the fairy tale that we needed at the time. And it became like a lifelong obsession of sorts. [00:53:26] And you can just say, as you, as you wish, and people within that eight year span of time, Will immediately know what you’re talking about and, and like start reminiscing about all their favorite lines from the movie. But yeah, it’s not, it’s not that amazing of a movie, but I, I love it. [00:53:51] Christina: [00:53:51] Yeah, I don’t have it’s it’s yeah, it’s a weird thing. I, um, Like my sister wasn’t into it at all. And that wouldn’t have been her type of humor. [00:54:00] And, but she she’s in the outright right age range. And then, I mean, I guess I technically am, I’m like, I’m on like the bottom end of it or whatever. But then my cousin Cole, who’s three years older than me. [00:54:10] Really liked it. And his younger sister, Alison who’s 40 is older than me was like obsessed with anything that her brother wanted. So she really liked it. And so they would watch it all the time and they lived down the street. So they would watch that all the time they would watch, uh, what was like top secret. [00:54:28] Um, and, and, and there was like, Other other movies with, with, uh, with Val Kilmer, like there was just, there was like a, there were other Carrie Juelz movies. Like they were just really into that stuff. Like, they’re really like Robin hood men in tights, [00:54:41] Brett: [00:54:41] Real [00:54:41] Christina: [00:54:41] like this. Yeah. Real genius. That’s thank you. [00:54:44] That, that, that one loved real genius. The watch that all the time. And I just, like, I don’t know when they were really, really, really into it, which was when I was in elementary school. I was just like, I don’t care. Um, and so, um, I think that a lot of [00:55:00] people like loved it from like rewatching it over and over again as kids. [00:55:04] And, um, I know why people like it, and I think it’s funny, it’s just for whatever reason, it’s one of those weird movies that I don’t have a lot of personal kind of association with. And so it has always been one of those weird movies for me to be like, Oh yeah. Um, love the princess bride. Cause like, I don’t like I don’t dislike it. [00:55:24] I just don’t really. I don’t know, I just don’t really care, but I have, but I haven’t really [00:55:29] Brett: [00:55:29] you’re not alone in that. [00:55:31]Christina: [00:55:31] but I have been really excited to see how excited other people have been with the various readings. I just haven’t watched any of them, which is I don’t care enough, but like, I think that’s actually pretty awesome. [00:55:40] And I like that people are bringing that sort of nostalgia and we’ve seen some other things like that too. Like there was a, a reading of, um, uh, fast times at Ridgemont high, uh, if the screenplay and that was pretty cool. So, and [00:55:53] Brett: [00:55:53] I never got into that movie. [00:55:55] Christina: [00:55:55] Yeah, me either. I mean, that movie is way, way. I mean, that movie came out, I think before I was born, but, [00:56:00] um, but I’m a huge Cameron Crowe fan and I’ve watched that movie and like that was Amy Heckerling, first film that she directed and she directed clueless, which is one of my favorite movies ever, ever, ever. [00:56:11] And Fast Times is a movie that could not be made today in any way. Uh, the abortion would never be allowed. The abortion it’s amazing was allowed in, in 1982 or whatever, but, um, but it’s a great teen comedy. And, um, so yeah, I, I’ve enjoyed seeing some of these types of things. The West wing is doing some stuff right now to, to try to encourage people to vote. [00:56:33] They’re doing like West wing reunions and, and, and readings. And, um, I mean, that’s one of the upsides of everybody kind of being stuck at home and bored. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I love to the West wing though. My only issue with the West wing was that it interfered with Dawson’s Creek for a period of time. And so I obviously watched Dawson’s Creek and then would record and like watch the West wing, like later. But yeah. [00:56:58] Brett: [00:56:58] Yeah. I never got into [00:57:00] either of those shows. [00:57:01]Christina: [00:57:01] Yeah. I, [00:57:02] um, [00:57:03] Brett: [00:57:03] I’m told, I’m told, I would appreciate the West wing. Now, just the idea of a reminiscing about having a. A sane, competent president. [00:57:14] Christina: [00:57:14] Yeah. Yeah. I um, of the two, you definitely like the West wing more, although I think that you would appreciate the West wing. I don’t think that that’s like one of your shows though. [00:57:25] Brett: [00:57:25] Yeah. I appreciate that. We like, I just, I had breakfast with my parents this morning. And as we’ve talked about in the past, my parents and I disagree on just about anything political. Um, and so I’m in that mode where I talk about anything, but, and we managed to get through an hour of this show without really talking about the horrible situation that politics is in right now. [00:57:57] And, and we don’t need to change that [00:58:00] because [00:58:00] Christina: [00:58:00] no, I don’t want to that’s. That was by design. I was going to say, this is kind of by design for me. If I’m being completely honest with you, I can’t, it upsets me so much. That I like, I don’t want it to be part of the stuff that I output to people. If that makes any sense. [00:58:19] Brett: [00:58:19] Yeah. Yeah. I feel [00:58:21] Christina: [00:58:21] not that it’s, it’s not that I don’t care it’s that I care so deeply. [00:58:25] And it’s so depressing to me that I don’t want to turn something that I enjoy and that I look forward to doing, which is the show with you. I don’t want to turn it into. A discourse on that stuff, at least from my effective, if you want to go off on it, I’m more than happy to listen to you do it. I just I’m like emotionally exhausted. [00:58:41] I don’t want to, I don’t want to do that. [00:58:43] Brett: [00:58:43] no, I have had to stop every day. I have to put a limit on how much news I can read. Uh, and how many tweets about American fascism I’m allowed to send out before I have to put a cap on it? It’s back [00:59:00] to cute kitty photos. Cause it is mentally draining and you’re in an abusive relationship with our country that is leading to PTSD people. [00:59:12] And it’s good. Be long lasting ramifications. Well, beyond the current president. Yeah. See, and it is it’s. It is mentally, uh, not just draining, but seriously stress inducing and yeah, no, we can avoid that for now. That’s fine. [00:59:31] Christina: [00:59:31] Yeah, no. The only thing I was going to say is while we were talking, actually I got a text from vote.org is like election day is coming up. Would you like to verify your voter registration, reply, why to check now? And I am registered and the state of Washington, this is very interesting given the whole thing is strictly vote by mail. [00:59:49] Like that is the only way you vote. We that, and that’s been the case for quite some time. And so, uh, I will be, I will be voting by mail. Um, The same way every other citizen [01:00:00] will, but, uh, just a reminder, I, I’m not sure when the deadlines are in some States they might have already passed, but you know, if you aren’t registered register and regardless of your, I thought like vote is it’s so important to vote. [01:00:16] Brett: [01:00:16] My ballot was received on Wednesday. [01:00:20] Christina: [01:00:20] Amazing. Yeah, I haven’t received ours haven’t because the whole state is we haven’t received them yet, but as soon as they come in, I will be voting. And, um, yeah, I just [01:00:31]Brett: [01:00:31] I voted for the legalized marijuana party for president. I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. [01:00:38] Christina: [01:00:38] don’t even, don’t even see now I’m going to have PTSD thinking about all the assholes I worked with at Gawker who were like. Because we lived in New York and they were just so sure that that Hillary was gonna win. Did they like made a big deal out of themselves being like, yeah. You know, we didn’t have to, um, Uh, we didn’t like, they wrote articles about [01:01:00] either why they didn’t vote or who they voted for or whatever. [01:01:02] And a lot of the women like this before the results came out, like we were chastising them, especially like the decibel, uh, reporters were like, this is really gross. And this is really like elitist and, and, you know, you’re really like publicly taking a position is making you look like a jackass. And then we were all together as we were watching. [01:01:21] The results come in, feeling sicker and sicker. And I left, you know, after midnight and it was just like this horrible thing. And the next day, you know, it rain, it was just, I don’t know, I’m just having flashbacks to that. So yeah. Vote and don’t vote for Gary Johnson or Jill Stein or [01:01:38] Brett: [01:01:38] whoever the fuck it is here. [01:01:40] Christina: [01:01:40] Yeah. And I don’t fucking care. Like just like, like vote out this guy, like period, like. [01:01:45] Brett: [01:01:45] I am no fan of Biden. I have a lot of problems with Biden. I am not a fan of the corporate duopoly of our political system, but the damage done by the GOP and the potential damage that could do in the next [01:02:00] four years is not worth taking some kind of a principled stand on it. Uh, just. [01:02:06] Christina: [01:02:06] frankly. Yeah. And I would actually argue that it is not a principled stand. I would say that, that if you actually care about getting to a point where you can hold those principles, like. It’s not a principle stand to let fascism takeover, like, honestly, like I think that is actually incredibly unprincipled to see fascism and say, well, I’m not going to do my part to stop this because the alternative is not as good as I would like, like, sorry. [01:02:35] Fuck that. No [01:02:36] Brett: [01:02:36] Yup. Agreed. Agreed. [01:02:39] Christina: [01:02:39] all right. And now, now, now we can be done on the, on the topic. Cause otherwise we’ll both go on, but yeah. [01:02:43] Brett: [01:02:43] Plus, or w w we hit our hour with, with no notes and we, we, we covered a lot of TV and a very shallow dive into politics. I, we, we pulled off we’ll call it, not like peek over tired. [01:03:00] It’s not, not, not one of our classic episodes and you didn’t get to have any really amazing rants about nineties, teen, uh, soap stuff. [01:03:12] But I feel like we pulled off a classic episode of overtired. [01:03:16] Christina: [01:03:16] I feel like, I feel like we did too. Like, this is this good, like middle of the road. This is like a very good like standard episode. Um, so all right. I still need to watch woke. You need to watch succession or the bow or something else. Do we, do I have any other homework from you? [01:03:30] Brett: [01:03:30] Um, remind me, I think I asked you last time, but did you see modern love? Okay. I would like to discuss at least episode three, um, at some point, [01:03:42] Christina: [01:03:42] Yes. Okay. Put that. We’ll, we’ll put that on, on our list because I would very much like to talk about that too. I need to go back and remind myself what episode three was, but yeah, I really liked modern love. [01:03:52] Brett: [01:03:52] Woke isn’t of like high importance. I thought it was a great show and they did a really good job of [01:04:00] talking about it’s about like a black guy in San Francisco actually played by Winston from the new girl and he kind of goes through, he’s a cartoonist writing, very inoffensive milk toast cartoons, literally about toast. [01:04:18] And. Uh, it goes through kind of an awakening after he’s, uh, uh, attacked by police and kind of begins to see the black plate from the inside. And he goes through a hole it’s, it’s interesting and relevant, but it wasn’t like, uh, it wasn’t so earth shattering that you have to watch this. So if you get a chance and you [01:04:42] Christina: [01:04:42] I’ll I’ll I’ll check it out. I’ll check it out. Also. Have you seen penis, uh, on, um, uh, [01:04:47] Brett: [01:04:47] 10 15. I watched a couple episodes. It didn’t, it didn’t hook me. [01:04:53] Christina: [01:04:53] Okay. Cause the second season just came out. But at that, and honestly that kind of makes sense. Like that is completely my shit because it is [01:05:00] girls who are my age recreating, like their teenage hoods, like from what I like, it’s great. But yeah. Pin 15 or, or penis is, uh, is, is really good. And, or at least I think is really good, but I can understand why without wouldn’t be your thing. [01:05:14] Brett: [01:05:14] I will admit it wasn’t until after I saw those two episodes that I realized what Penn 15 was that it, that it was peanuts. Yes. [01:05:24] Christina: [01:05:24] How dude, [01:05:25] Brett: [01:05:25] Just, I wasn’t tuned in, in that way. [01:05:29] Christina: [01:05:29] but like you didn’t spell boobs on your calculator. [01:05:31]Brett: [01:05:31] Yes, boobs, but yeah. Yeah. I just, if a show came out right now named eight Oh Oh eight, five, I don’t know that I would see it as boom. It’s like, I’m kind of removed from the, the TEI. Uh, [01:05:48] Christina: [01:05:48] Well, congratulations on being an adult. Not all of a sudden have gotten there. Congratulations. Spread for being, for being mature. [01:05:55] Brett: [01:05:55] yeah. Rub it in. All right. Well, I [01:06:00] hope you have a good week. We didn’t even talk about what you’re headed off to do. [01:06:04] Christina: [01:06:04] Oh, yeah, a real quickly, just people know there’s a great podcast called again with this, uh, Beverly Hills and, and also actually now Melrose place. Cause they got through and I have to winnow and Tara, Ariana and Sarah bunting who created the website television without pity. Um, Recap, every single episode of Beverly Hills. [01:06:23] I know she went, Oh, and they skewer it and they just released a book about like the a hundred greatest nine to two and two episodes. And there is an Austin television festival zoom thing today. Uh, around their book that, uh, one of their former colleagues who now hosts the pop culture happy hour or whatever on MPR is hosting. [01:06:45] And I got an invite to be an audience member, whatever the hell that means in a virtual context. [01:06:51] Brett: [01:06:51] You should be a panel member. [01:06:53] Christina: [01:06:53] I should be a panel member. This is completely correct. You are 1000% correct, but I am not, they have no [01:07:00] idea I exist, but I’m a big fan of their podcasts. And funny story, you will appreciate this. Brett I’ve made grant listened to it. [01:07:06] I don’t know how many years ago, but I made him listen to it when we were doing drives and whatnot, it would be like on my, on my podcast. And then it got to the point, he was like, Hey. Let’s what was that podcast? Let’s listen to that. And then he started listening to it on its own. And he’s still several years behind because they go through like every single episode, but he he’s, you know, relisting to old things. [01:07:26] And, uh, it’s hilarious that like, he became like a fan, like independent. Of like, it went from being a thing that he was like rolling his eyes about being forced to listen to she being something that he like actively seeks out. And when he saw that there was a book which came out this week and I saw the same thing. [01:07:44] Like I immediately ordered the, um, like the, the hard cover books so that we could have it. And then I also got it on audible so we could listen to it. So, yeah. [01:07:54] Brett: [01:07:54] If you ever apply to be a guest or a cohost on a show like that, I will be your character [01:08:00] witness. [01:08:00] Christina: [01:08:00] Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. Um, yeah, I think that, uh, yeah, again, they have no idea who I am, but I’m a big fan of theirs. So that’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to, this is, this is my pop culture nineties ramp for the week. Cause I’m literally going off to listen to people who got paid to do a podcast. [01:08:18] And now write a book about my favorite TV show from childhood. [01:08:25] Brett: [01:08:25] Well, I hope you have fun. [01:08:27] Christina: [01:08:27] Thank you. Thank you. And hope that you have a good week. And, uh, I will, I will put, woke on my list and, uh, next week will be a more normal episode. We’ll both, hopefully be well rested and back on our normal schedule. [01:08:41] Brett: [01:08:41] Well, rested to record over tired. [01:08:44] Christina: [01:08:44] Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, as well, rested as we can be, like, we have insomnia that is sort of the thesis of the show. [01:08:51] Brett: [01:08:51] You know what you need to be well, rested. Get some sleep Christiana. [01:08:56] Christina: [01:08:56] Thank you. Right? You get some sleep.

You’ve got your mental health, your mechanical keyboards, and your favorite audiobooks. And Schitt’s Creek sets some Emmy records, so you’ve got your TV, too. Looks like you’re set! Sponsor Thanks to ExpressVPN for sponsoring Overtired this week! Keep your web browsing private from ISPs and the companies they sell your data to. Use ExpressVPN any time your online, even when you’re at home. Visit ExpressVPN.com/overtired to get an extra 3 months for free when you sign up for a year. Show Links Microsoft Ignite Miss Americana Ultimate Hacking Keyboard Signature Plastics, PimpMyKeyboard Succession Schitt’s Creek Binti on Audible The Office: The Untold Story of the Greatest Sitcom of the 2000s: An Oral History Audm – Listen to longform journalism you don’t have time to read The Rise of the Ruth Bader Ginsburg Cult Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.

From bipolar disorder to text editors in three simple steps. In peak Overtired fashion, Brett and Christina cover West Coast Air Quality, mental health, the benefits of VS Code, and all of the random tangents you know and love. Show Links Stream Deck Loopback Audio Hijack Bipolar Disorder Kim Kardashian Opened Up About Kanye West’s Bipolar Disorder nvUltra Bunch Visual Studio Code Remote Development Panic Blog » Nova. Our next big thing. Uplift – Wire Management Adhesive Readjustable Cable Tie Mounts by UPLIFT Desk One Wrap Velcro Ties Hanna Montana Linux demo Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript 01Intro + 2 [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] hold on. You’re ready. [00:00:09]Christina: [00:00:09] that is nifty. This is over. You’re listening to over-tired. I’m Christina Warren. [00:00:15] Brett: [00:00:15] She’s delighted. This is Brett TURPs dress. She’s delighted because I just, I, I rigged up this whole soundboard using my stream deck and loop back and, uh, audio hijack. So I can just hit a button. And play soundtrack stuff. And so we can do this live and save me maybe five minutes of editing. I put like an hour into building this soundboard, [00:00:40] Christina: [00:00:40] Right. So, but I love it actually. And it’s not about saving time because that’s not what any of the things that you build are about. It’s about the fact that you’ve done it. And, um, at some point maybe it will be time-saving, but it’s just really cool. I’m very excited. [00:00:59] Brett: [00:00:59] me [00:01:00] too. I just, I ordered a bigger stream deck. I ran out of buttons. [00:01:06] Christina: [00:01:06] I knew that it was going to happen. Cause you got the mini. I was like, man, you probably, you’re probably an Excel person if I’m being [00:01:11] Brett: [00:01:11] Cause, well, cause you can have folders, right? So like you can have five buttons in a folder, but you always lose one button to the back button and then you can have it switch profiles. So you can get six entirely different buttons depending on what app is in the foreground. But for something like a soundboard, I need it in the foreground. [00:01:30] Even when I’ll talk about it after it comes out, I wrote, Oh, so w we’ll get to this, we’ll get to why I wrote all next week posts already. Um, but first I’m currently in a text chat with my cousin who I don’t talk to often. [00:01:47] Haven’t really spoken with her since. Probably the nineties. Um, but we’re catching up and she she’s in California. And so like 20 minutes from her, there are [00:02:00] fires right now and they’ve been locked inside for, with the air quality, the way it is. How’s your end of the West coast. [00:02:07] Christina: [00:02:07] Real not good, obviously, not as bad as California in terms of, um, you know, the horrors that are happening, like the skies aren’t orange, and we don’t have wildfires breaking out, although Oregon, which is just, you know, below us does, but the air quality right now, I’m trying to pull it up on my phone. The air quality right now is let’s see what the number is. [00:02:34] Is two 37, which is, is very much in the very unhealthy category. And like, there’s this, this color kind of wheel it’s in the purple. And there’s only one color after that. It’s at the beginning of the purple, but there’s only one color after that. That’s like this, this deep kind of Mav color, which I’m assuming is like, You’re, you’re not allowed to, you know, go anywhere without a really good [00:03:00] filter mask. [00:03:00] And on the one hand, like I haven’t gone outside cause pandemic. And so like on the one hand, I guess it’s good that everybody is, is forced to wear masks for social distancing reasons. On the other hand, the, the fabric mask don’t do shit for this. [00:03:17] Brett: [00:03:17] Right. [00:03:18] Christina: [00:03:18] So. You know, this is one of those situations where you really would want the people P E like, like the, the in 95 masks. [00:03:25] Brett: [00:03:25] well, what’s actually, uh, I can’t remember what all the letters and numbers mean. It’s pretty, it’s pretty intuitive, but I forget, um, the, the masks that would be best for air quality are not good for viral spread. So like at this point, everyone needs to have at least three different kinds of mask on them at all times. [00:03:46]If you’re in California, I mean, I don’t need a pollution mask. [00:03:50] Christina: [00:03:50] Right. I was going to say, yeah, cause I do remember that, for instance, I like the reason that Apple had so many in 95 or in 97 or whatever, the number was mass, that they were able to donate. [00:04:00] Cause they had like over a million of them was not because, cause they’re like, Oh, there’s going to be a pandemic. [00:04:04] It’s the same thing with Facebook. It was because the wildfire. So, you know, um, but the, regardless, like all those types are hard to get, whether they’re good for, you know, spreading virus detection or not. And you know, uh, Like a clock mask. It’s better than nothing, but it’s, it doesn’t do shit to actually, you know, filter that stuff out. [00:04:25] Like the few times I have been been pseudo outsider or whatever, like, I mean, you can just smell and taste the smoke and you can see it visibly because you can’t really see anything else. It looks like. Because, you know, we get, we, we get fog in Seattle, but this is not bog. This is smoke. So we this before, not this bad, but a couple of years ago, again, when there were like massive wildfires, we were getting it both from like coming down from Vancouver. [00:04:52] And then also, you know, some stuff I guess, wafting over from San Francisco. But these I’m assuming we’re all getting from, from Oregon. [00:05:00] So. Yeah, no, the, uh, 2020, certainly if you look at the photos, I mean, like between everything that’s happening to me, it is, it is an apocalyptic year. Like I have to think that some of the religious, uh, like insane people, not to say that all religious people are insane, but like the people who’ve been like predicting the rapture and all that stuff, like are super, super stoked because you know, it does look like all the stuff is happening. [00:05:28] Brett: [00:05:28] Somehow. I like I grew up in a world where it was constantly, well, this is a sign of the end times, you know, this is leading up to Armageddon. Um, and now all of the sudden these things that clearly are signs of the end, don’t seem to register that way anymore. I haven’t heard one Christian say, obviously this is the end of the world. [00:05:55]Christina: [00:05:55] That’s really interesting. I wonder, I wonder how much politics plays into that. [00:06:00] [00:06:00] Brett: [00:06:00] Well, I think it’s entirely politics. I think as long as it’s them causing the end of the world, then it’s a, it’s not Armageddon. It’s just a bad year. [00:06:09]Christina: [00:06:09] Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of disappointing that that’s. [00:06:14] Brett: [00:06:14] Right. We should all be cheering on the apocalypse at this point. [00:06:19] Christina: [00:06:19] I mean, I think so. I’m like, what’s the point of having like, uh, you know, uh, being like apocalyptical and whatnot, if you’re not going to see, like, I mean, honestly, we’re very close to, you know, toads, like raining down, like that’s, that’s where we’re at. [00:06:35]Brett: [00:06:35] I’ve had two great title ideas so far a deep kind of mob color. And apocalyptical, I’ll decide before the end of the show. [00:06:43] Christina: [00:06:43] Fantastic. Fantastic. A quick update for you, um, since, um, your air quality is fine. Uh, how, how, how how’s the med situation? [00:06:51] Brett: [00:06:51] well, okay. So I actually wrote a, a long post on my blog last week. Um, [00:07:00] you know, I go through these regular periods of not sleeping, but I never talk about why very much. Um, and it’s partly because I haven’t fully understood it. Until last couple years, but I’m bipolar. And I get these manic spaces, manic swings, manic episodes, and I’ll go through three to five days. [00:07:25] Yeah. Of not sleeping, getting a bunch of stuff done. Um, they’re relatively mild in that. Like I know when they’re happening, like a lot of bipolar people that are here from, they don’t know when they’re manic. And they just think they’re being normal and making really good decisions when they are. In fact not, um, I don’t have that problem, but I’ve decided to start talking more about the bipolar stuff. [00:07:51] It’s super easy to talk about ADHD. Like everyone could smile and nod and it’s well understood. [00:08:00] And you know, it’s something kids have it’s. It’s easy to grasp a bipolar scares people more though. So it has more stigma and I’m one for, uh, alleviating stigma, wherever possible. [00:08:14]Christina: [00:08:14] Important cause I, I’m not bipolar, but I am informed agreement with trying to reduce the stigma around it. And honestly, that’s one of the reasons why I get, I think frustrated with people like Kanye West, who, well, not just him, but also the people around him when like he’s so clearly unmedicated and in pain and then going on, like, this is why I stopped even like commenting on the stuff that he did because. [00:08:41] Like four years ago when we didn’t know what the situation was, there was like humor to it. Right. And then I stopped about four years ago because I very much got the, it like the, you know, it occurred to me. I was like, you know what? I think he’s [00:09:00] bipolar based on my own experiences with people who have it and things like that. [00:09:03] I was like that this is what I think it is. And I don’t feel comfortable anymore, like making this into like a joke. Like I’m just, I’m just not comfortable with that. Okay. So then, you know, he, he becomes public about it, but it has the manic break, you know, kind of live on stage and whatnot. And then rather than. You know, kind of using that as an opportunity to do anything with it. He doesn’t, which is fine. He wants to deny it. He wants to try to pretend like, you know, um, it, it, it’s not a real thing. Okay, fine. That that’s his prerogative, but I become very bothered by the people in his family and his entourage who see the self destructive things that are happening and then refuse to do anything about it and enable him to be, you know, Running for president and, and talking and [00:09:50] Brett: [00:09:50] Didn’t Kim didn’t Kim come out, um, like Instagram and talk about it. [00:09:55] Christina: [00:09:55] She did. And I was actually very happy that she did that, but it’s like it, but it literally [00:10:00] took him like talking about his children and his wife and attacking her mother and her mother’s boyfriend. And, you know, claiming that he almost aborted his daughter and all this stuff while running for president. [00:10:12] This is when this all happened for her to finally be like, okay, He’s not in a good place. This is what this reality is. And I appreciated that she did that, but it was, it bothered me that it’s like, okay, you’re completely fine profiting off of it. When, um, when, when, when he, when he’s, you know, putting, um, you know, I’m bipolar and I love it, or whatever, you know, on the, on the cover of one of his albums and, and he’s doing the other light, just. [00:10:38] Like the unhinged stuff, which is clearly like, what happens when you’re in like a manic spiral and you’re not being treated like you’re fine profiting off of it. But once, you know, you personally become called out, that’s when you’re finally going to like speak up and say something like, I’m going to be honest. [00:10:54] I’m not, I try not to judge, you know, other people’s situations with that too much, but that did kind of bother me. [00:11:00] Cause I’m like, I’m glad you said something and that’s really important, but you’ve, you’ve. Enabled this to be totally candid and you’ve profited off of it. And, and that just makes me really sad because he’s such a talented musician. [00:11:15] And I want your perspective on this. Cause I other people I know who are I’ve wholer, one of the things that has kept them many times from being treated correctly is that they feel like they can’t create. Unless they have, you know, the, those, the, the, the mania, like, they need that to create. And, and, and I, I guess my question for you is age. [00:11:38] Do you feel that? And B and I can relate to that a little bit. Like I’ve never had, um, mania, but I have had, like, with depression, depression has, has kicked off like really creative. Inspirational parts within myself. And it used to be a thing where I could even kind of tie it to my period because of the hormones I was on with that and whatnot. [00:11:57] But then it got to the point that my depression was so bad [00:12:00] that I couldn’t even create anymore. And, and I realized, I was like, well, even the good parts are, are, are bullshit. So I’m not going to be able to, I’m not going to be able to create regardless. So I was just curious, like, from your perspective, do you, do you struggle with that and how have you been able to kind of overcome that. [00:12:17] Brett: [00:12:17] Yeah. So when I’m stable for too long, I really start wishing for mania. Not because it feels great or leads to good things, but because it’s really the only time that I. I feel like I come up with good ideas. Um, I I’ve had, I’ve had some good ideas in my life and almost all of them have come during [00:12:41] Christina: [00:12:41] Okay. [00:12:42] Brett: [00:12:42] three-day coding binges, or, you know, whatever happened, whatever I get up to while not sleeping. [00:12:49] And, um, and I do, I do. And, and when I swing to the other end, which is very predictable, there’s like if I have three days of not sleeping, [00:13:00] Uh, three days of a manic episode, I’m going to have probably three days or four days of depression following it. And once I hit that depression, there’s I just lose interest, all these things that seemed super interesting and seem like great ideas suddenly are colorless. [00:13:18] Um, nothing. I can’t feel anything about them anymore, and I definitely am not coming up with. Creative ideas or the motivation to make them happen. That happens mostly for me during manic episodes. I can, when I’m stable, which is I’m stable more often than I’m swinging, I’m medicated. I’ve been medicated since my twenties. [00:13:42] Um, and I’ve gotten really good at it. At recognizing my own symptoms and kind of have my own coping mechanisms for it. But when I’m perfectly stable, I can be a normally productive person. Uh, my whole life people have lauded my productivity. [00:14:00] Uh, you get so much you’re done and yeah, for, you know, three, three days a month, I really, I get an inhuman amount of stuff done, but they don’t generally see the weeks at a time that I. [00:14:12] Just kind of, I’m just kind of a normal human and I mean, I feel like everyone has productivity issues. It’s combined with ADHD for me, um, which doesn’t help productivity in general, but yeah, in answer to your question. Yeah. Mania is I think a lot of the greatest creations, uh, artistically have come from manic depressives. [00:14:39]Christina: [00:14:39] Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t disagree with that. I guess I’m just curious, like, from, from your perspective, like how do you reconcile the fact that you can have those, those bouts of brilliance, but also know that at a certain point, like it’s. Like, you know, um, what was the term I’m looking for? Like, it’s diminishing returns, like at a certain point, [00:15:00] it’s not going to continue. [00:15:01] And if you don’t get back on medication, if you don’t find a way to sleep again, you’re not going to have those creative spurts like that, that doesn’t continue on. That’s what I’m [00:15:11] Brett: [00:15:11] I think, I think I just accept, like I don’t, I don’t feel like I get a lot of choice in the matter. Um, I accept what comes and. Like I, the medication I take and I, I never go off my meds, like my bipolar episodes or not because I went off my meds. Um, I haven’t gone off my meds since I started them in my twenties. [00:15:34] I think what you’re saying is that you have to see that there’s there’s bad. [00:15:39] That comes with the good and you have to kind of, you, you have to acknowledge that there’s going to be, there’s going to be some pain involved, I guess. I don’t know. It’s a tough question. Really. I don’t think I have dealt with that. [00:15:58] Christina: [00:15:58] Okay. Yeah, no, [00:16:00] I that’s just, that’s like, when I, when I look at people who are very clearly like talented, but are fighting the realities of that, I’m always, I’m always curious about that. [00:16:10] Brett: [00:16:10] think it’s the, uh, the epitome of the tortured artist. [00:16:13] Christina: [00:16:13] yeah, probably. [00:16:16] Brett: [00:16:16] Maybe that’s what that means. Maybe that just means bipolar. [00:16:20] Christina: [00:16:20] I mean it’s possible. I mean, I, there is something to be said. I think about great art and people who are in, who are depressed or bipolar, or, um, have some other form of mental illness. I think that, uh, the two are linked in some way, not to say that that’s the only way that you can produce great art, but it certainly is. [00:16:41] I think a common ality, uh, [00:16:43] Brett: [00:16:43] I mean, [00:16:44] Christina: [00:16:44] for a lot of art. [00:16:45] Brett: [00:16:45] are plenty of talented artists that do not rely on chemical imbalances to make their art. I don’t mean to imply that, [00:16:53] Christina: [00:16:53] No. I know you don’t. I know you don’t. I do, but I, but I do think, I mean, studies have kind of shown, uh, that, that there are correlations, you [00:17:00] know, that it’s, it’s not just something that’s like, Oh, you know, it doesn’t mean every single person, but there are commonalities with, with, with having a chemical imbalance and being able to produce really amazing things. [00:17:11] Um, which. You know, if you think about it kind of makes sense because everything is kind of going normal. That’s it doesn’t mean that the output isn’t great. It just means the output is going to be more expected. Right. [00:17:23] Brett: [00:17:23] Yup. Um, [00:17:25]Christina: [00:17:25] So have you been doing anything on like you’re on these sleepless binges? Has there been anything you’ve been working on. [00:17:31] Brett: [00:17:31] Oh, well, like I said, I, I, I wrote a blog post for every day next week, and every one of them was about a project I was working on and a lot of it had to do with my app bunch weirdly. Um, I got back into developing that and working on the stream deck. And, uh, writing scripts and, uh, doing a lot of stuff. I go down rabbit holes, uh, aren’t worth sharing, uh, which like [00:18:00] when I go down a rabbit hole, the one thing that justifies it for me is maybe I get a blog post out of it. [00:18:07] And that helped it built my career is built on like rabbit holes. Um, So like there’s a redeeming factor when I can like turn it into something I can write about something. I can share something I can provide to people. But so many of my rabbit holes when I’m manic are I get obsessed with like the one I wrote about in my blog posts was I was working on the command line interface that I made for the app hook. [00:18:36] And I have this whole, uh, sub command based interface for it. That is self-documenting. Uh, I, I add a comment before each function and it, it builds itself at the end. It builds our doc documentation, but I wandered it to build markdown documentation. Yeah. Even though get hub is perfectly capable. Yeah. I’m taking an R doc document and making it your read me. [00:19:00] [00:19:00] I wanted it to be a universal format like markdown and I spent. Hours. I spent from like midnight until 10:00 AM. Just writing one class that would output my documentation that’s marked down for. And let me, let me clarify. This is for a version of the CLI that isn’t even public yet. This was just for me, I’ll never, I’ll never be able to, uh, this will never benefit me. [00:19:30] It was a complete waste of time. [00:19:32]Christina: [00:19:32] I mean, I think that’s okay. I think that happens. [00:19:35] Brett: [00:19:35] Sure. I just, I had a freelance gig I should have been working on. [00:19:40] Christina: [00:19:40] Then that, then that then that’s disappointing. Like if you add actual work, okay. Then that’s, that’s the part that like, that’s, that’s the part that I think that, that should be the focus. Not that you did the thing that won’t benefit you, but that you had this opportunity to work on something that could have actually been beneficial and you didn’t, you know, [00:19:55] Brett: [00:19:55] In fairness over my, over the succeeding. 48 [00:20:00] hours of sleepless nights, I did finish the freelance gig too. [00:20:03] Christina: [00:20:03] Okay, well, that’s, that’s good. I mean, that’s, at least you finished that, but yeah. Yeah. Um, to complete non-sequitur work. Cause this is my add my ADHD as, [00:20:16] Brett: [00:20:16] we’re here for. We’re all [00:20:17] Christina: [00:20:17] I’m listening, as I’m listening to you and as you’re doing your talk about your projects, I’m now. Playing around with Homebrew for the first time in a while on my system. [00:20:27] And they’ve updated it and they’ve changed the they’ve changed the commands significantly. And I don’t like it. I’m not a fan. [00:20:36] Brett: [00:20:36] What are you talking about [00:20:39] Christina: [00:20:39] So like, like brew, cask upgrade doesn’t work anymore. And I don’t know what the new command is to upgrade all of your outdated casks and brew cleanup doesn’t work anymore. It’s some new thing. [00:20:52] And yeah, those are just the two changes that I’ve that I’ve [00:20:56] Brett: [00:20:56] through dr. Runs through clean up now? [00:20:59] Christina: [00:20:59] I [00:21:00] guess. So, uh, [00:21:02] Brett: [00:21:02] In fact now, when I install in you formula, it runs cleanup at the end of it. Almost every time. [00:21:09] Christina: [00:21:09] yeah, that, that, that it told me, but I’m looking through as I was calling brew CASCAP grid is deprecated use brew upgrade dash dash cask instead. Okay. Which, which sucks because it’s like, okay, well now it also brew cask. LISC is deprecated. And so I’m like, okay, well now I have to actually manually upgrade each cask. [00:21:25] And so I’m like, okay, well tell me to tell me what I can do now to upgrade all of them. Um, and I, I I’m on this podcast with you. So what I’m trying to read the man page, but I’m not happy about this. [00:21:35] Brett: [00:21:35] There is a script. Um, I’m trying to remember what it’s called, but it’s like an Uber updater and it will update. Not just brew, but it’ll update your makeover, uh, updates. It [00:21:48] Christina: [00:21:48] yet? Is it Mac update? Updater [00:21:50] Brett: [00:21:50] No, no, it has. It’s like an update, everything kind of name or something. Um, [00:21:57] Christina: [00:21:57] yeah. [00:21:57] Brett: [00:21:57] updates your NPM package. Is it [00:22:00] updates? Uh, I can’t remember what, all right now, everything that you would normally spend time updating all of your, your gems, your Ruby packages. [00:22:10] Christina: [00:22:10] Okay. I need this because I’ve been using like, there’s a gooey app called mock-up data that I really, really like that actually does check, you know, Bruce stuff. It doesn’t check your Ruby gyms or your MPM packages. So I want to find this OmniUpdate or that you’re talking about. Um, And, but I, I do like, um, the mockup data, but I want to find this other thing, but now I’m, I’m just annoyed because this is one of those things that I like to run to make myself feel productive. [00:22:37] And now the, the way I do things has changed and I’m not happy about it. [00:22:42] Brett: [00:22:42] I, uh, I just searched my blog for update everything. Cause I felt like I had blogged about her at some point, but Mac updater was the first result for that. I blogged about back in 2019. I’ll find that script for you. [00:22:55] Christina: [00:22:55] you’ll find it. Yeah. Uh, maca Bader guy is great. He actually added a it’s still [00:23:00] in development, but he actually added kind of a preliminary CLI tool for it specifically for me, which was pretty great. [00:23:06] Brett: [00:23:06] Very nice. You’re so , yeah, that’s about to say something in a pro. I was just, you, you carry a lot of weight. People make you stuff. [00:23:16] Christina: [00:23:16] I don’t think he had any idea who I was. I just like sent a tweet thing and he was like, that’s a pretty good idea. So [00:23:22] um, so as you’ve been updating bunch, And, uh, also, um, what’s, what’s going on with, uh, with indie ultra. [00:23:34] Brett: [00:23:34] So Fletcher schedule has been. Very like his personal life has gotten in the way of his development life and the way our code is set up, I’m very reliant on him to actually get things published. Um, but the thing I’m running into is a lot of people that are on the beta beta are MDL like longtime NBL users [00:24:00] and NB ultra is. [00:24:03] Ostensibly a replacement for NBL. That was always the intention. Obviously that’s where the name came from. Um, and it is a perfect replacement for the way that I use. NBO it basically strips out all the stuff. I don’t use an NBO and improves this stuff I do use, but I’m realizing there are a lot of NVL fans that do things like click their mouse on stuff, [00:24:31] Christina: [00:24:31] And you’re like, what? And you’re like, what’s a mouse. [00:24:34] Brett: [00:24:34] I’m like you use the header columns in the list view to sort by why wouldn’t you use the keyboard shortcuts, um, and envy ultra like strips out as even more, uh, interface Chrome than NBL did at down to a point where you really have your, your list of notes with no previews and you have a full featured markdown editor, and there’s nothing else on your screen. [00:25:00] [00:24:59] Um, which is what I wanted, but now I’m second guessing all of that people are people who expect it to be just like NBL give up on it right away. I’ve heard too many times about people that are like, I got on the beta. I tried it for five minutes. It wasn’t NVL. So I went [00:25:23] Christina: [00:25:23] So I’m, I’m done. Totally, totally. [00:25:26] Brett: [00:25:26] I don’t know what to do with those people. [00:25:28] Christina: [00:25:28] Um, well I think that there are a couple of things you could do. From my perspective as somebody who kind of straddles the line between being those types of users and being your type of user. Uh, and, and also as somebody who I guess like now, like works directly with, you know, um, customers of widely used software, which is a different perspective than I’ve had before. [00:25:53] Um, I think that. First you would, it would be useful to find out [00:26:00] are there, are there opportunities for them to be able to do what they did before? Like that, that’s my first question for you. Like can’t is there a way that if they played with the net, that where they could configure it and they could use it similar to the way they used some of those things before? [00:26:12] Yes or no? [00:26:14] Brett: [00:26:14] There there’s always the possibility. The first, first hurdle is that Fletcher and I have to agree that a feature should be added. [00:26:24] Christina: [00:26:24] Okay. No, but the Buba going beyond that, meaning, meaning that a feature talking, not talking about like what features would need to be added. I’m saying that like right now, when somebody uses the app, are there certain things that they don’t know about that they could enable that would make it more similar to what it was like before? [00:26:39] Brett: [00:26:39] Well, in some cases, uh, like. If you wanted to sort by date and you were used to clicking the list header to sort by date. Now it’s a keyboard shortcut because there’s no list header. Uh, when you want to, when you want to search, uh, people keep coming to me and saying, they’re used to clicking in the URL bar [00:27:00] and it, it would highlight, it would select all when you clicked in it. [00:27:05] And ours doesn’t do that because we never even considered that people are going to use their mouse to get to the URL bar. Like that’s just command L and if people got used to command L they would find it was faster. Anyway. Um, so yeah, no, I basically, we, we removed a lot of the stuff that people seem to be looking for. [00:27:26] Christina: [00:27:26] Okay, well, then that, that becomes a problem. Um, and I think that you and flusher are gonna have to figure out probably this is what you were talking about before, which is, are there things that you’d be willing to add back in. Um, or at the very least, um, allow an opportunity for people to access in a way similar to what they did before or not. [00:27:46] And if the answer is no, then I do think that you probably need to be honest with those people and say, look, the way that you did things before is not going to work. And so if what you like before is, is what you want [00:28:00] to stick with, and this isn’t going to be for you. However, what might be useful would be to do with, um, You know, a series of blog posts, videos, or even like in-app sort of tutorials to show people where things have moved and how it works now. [00:28:16] Um, so, so I think that that would, that would help a lot just to say, Hey, this is how it used to be done. This is what you do now, the other thing, and you know, I know that the name has already been kind of a contentious thing, [00:28:33] Brett: [00:28:33] No. I know exactly what you’re going to say. And I agree. [00:28:36] Christina: [00:28:36] Yeah, because the issue is, is that if you’re calling this envy, ultra and people are going to be making assumptions, that it’s going to be like the continuation of envy alt and it’s really not. [00:28:45] It’s kind of a rebirth and kind of a reinvention. I don’t know if you, if you having the envy in the name. [00:28:51] Brett: [00:28:51] I, I, I agree. Uh, it was, uh, We’ve talked about this. I know, but it was a, a point [00:29:00] of just giving up after going through huge mind maps, full of name ideas, and never being able to agree on anything. Uh, it just came down to envy. Ultra was a clever play on what was clearly going to be our LA our, our largest part of our initial customer base. [00:29:20] Um, they would like, they would recognize it. They would find it. Hopefully clever, but yeah, you’re right. If I, if I don’t want people to make comparisons to envy all, then it was really stupid to call it MB, ultra. [00:29:34]Christina: [00:29:34] Yeah. I mean, and look, you’re not unique in this. A lot of applications go through this and naming is hard, but a lot of applications go through this thing where they change things that you didn’t realize until you’ve gotten through the beta process, that people are really of faith. They use things the way that, you know, you use things, um, and, uh, they don’t use rather, they use things in a different way than how you use things and [00:30:00] that, that impacts your development. [00:30:01] And so. It is worth looking at, especially now that you have feedback from you users, it is worth considering, is this just like a vocal minority of users or is this the vast majority of people who are using our product? And that will require a much harder conversations about what direction you want to take things in, because it’s very possible for you to be able to say, you know what, we’re willing to give up. [00:30:24] Some of the older users maybe have a different name and we’re going to be going after a different user base because this is how we do things, but it also was worth considering. Okay. The people who we thought our users were and who they actually are, are different. And if we want to actually be able to sell this and market this and make this into something that is sustainable, then we need to make adjustments. [00:30:45] Brett: [00:30:45] I think it’s going to be a combination of those two. [00:30:48] Christina: [00:30:48] Yeah. I mean, I think so, too. Um, it’s interesting. Panic is, is sort of going through something similar with, um, uh, Nova, I mean, and, and they say this, [00:31:00] I haven’t heard them. Uh, uh, say that, but I’m in their beta. And I can just imagine that, you know, Nova is very, very different from Coda. And so I actually do think that them selling the name was smart to be totally honest, um, or, you know, selling the name to Coda. [00:31:19] The web app was, was actually pretty smart. So I, um, But I imagine they’re going to get a lot of that too, from people once that hits general release next week, that a lot of people are going to be like, wait a minute. This is not the app that I thought it was, you know? Um, I don’t know. They, they have other challenges too. [00:31:39] I will buy it. Um, I I’m, I’m proud of them for releasing it and I want to support them. I’m going to be totally honest. I don’t know if I’m actually going to use it. I’ve become such a visual studio [00:31:49] Brett: [00:31:49] I was going to say, like, it’s, it’s hard to beat vs code for the kind of stuff you want to do. [00:31:54] Christina: [00:31:54] It really is. It really is. And [00:31:55] Brett: [00:31:55] can make it as shiny and pretty as you want to, but it’s gotta be that functional [00:32:00] to take over. [00:32:01] Christina: [00:32:01] Well, that’s the issue. And, and especially, you know, when you’re, and, and that’s, that’s completely even separate from like the cost issue. Cause for me, I want to support my friends. I want to support ND software. I’m going to buy it whether I use it or not. Like that is not an issue for me. For some people it will be. [00:32:18] I think the bigger thing though, is it’s like, if I’m going to make, if I’m going to switch my text editor, It needs to be significantly better. Like that’s why I was stuck with texts mate for so long. Is that there? It took me, frankly, until we as code and a couple of years of IES code for me to be like, okay, finally, this, this is better. [00:32:37] And that was completely like, I never went to sublime. Like you went to sublime way, way, way back. And I was just, I was like, I never liked sublime. So I was just not going to bother, but [00:32:49] Brett: [00:32:49] I’m still stuck on sublime. Like I, every time I use vs code, there’s something about it that delights me. Like there’s so many cool things about it, but I keep over configuring it [00:33:00] and then having to like erase my configuration and start from scratch. And then I. I tend to lose interest and go back to what I have very much working and sublime text. [00:33:12] Um, it’s the S code is amazing. I’m not, I’m not, I can’t there’s I have no major complaints about it at all. Other than maybe it’s too configurable. [00:33:22]Christina: [00:33:22] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do think it would be interesting, like, and this is well, what’s interesting. They come up with like various extension packs that kind of can turn it into various versions, you know, like there’s the Java, um, you know, extension pack. There’s one for [00:33:34] Brett: [00:33:34] there’s a, there’s a sublime pack that like basically sets up your, uh, your key bindings and everything. So that it’s an easy transition. [00:33:42] Christina: [00:33:42] That’s awesome. There there’s a Python like extension, which adds a lot of really good Python functionality they have now finally like enabled as part of the, the main version it’s still in preview, but they have finally enabled like a, a built in native setting sync. Which I think is really cool. And the extension that [00:34:00] would upload to adjust just before is awesome. [00:34:02] But having it natively built in is, is cool, but what I’ve suggested to them and, and it’s, it’s, they’re, they’re looking at it. I don’t know if it’s going to go in this direction or not, but I would really love to be able to have distinct profiles that aren’t just about like work home, but also maybe different workspace type so that I could have different extensions, different set ups, maybe for different. [00:34:23] Scenarios that I want, which I know kind of complaints with how their workspace thing works out. But sometimes you just want to, you know, have it synced across everything and, and have a different kind of way that it works. I don’t know. Um, [00:34:38] Brett: [00:34:38] do that. [00:34:40] Christina: [00:34:40] you can, but I would like to have it like tied in with, with the, the synchronized settings, um, rather than having to be like project based. Like, I would like to be able to basically open it up in a certain mode, if that makes sense. Like, I would like to be able to just launch, okay, I want this to be in, you know, markdown writing [00:35:00] mode, or I want this to be in like JavaScript mode, or I want this to be in some other sort of thing with certain number of configurations, uh, like extensions, you know, uh, theme, configurations, fonts, whatever. [00:35:10] Um, That would be tied to something more than just like saying, okay, this is my work persona. This is my, you know, home machine, um, that kind of thing. So, um, but yeah, but it does kind of cross into some of the stuff that they already do. And the problem with that is it kind of, which is exactly what you said is that it does become then this whole issue of like, okay, this is too configurable. [00:35:32] Right. Which is sort of a thing I’m trying to get around. I’m like, no, just give me like, like nicely preselected defaults, but. [00:35:38] Brett: [00:35:38] Well, the thing I run into is eventually I have no idea what keystroke is causing what to happen. Like I have too many plugins enabled and I don’t know what’s conflicting with what and. No, why suddenly certain texts is being inserted when I typed certain characters. And, um, I think it’s cause I do too much too [00:36:00] fast. [00:36:00] Christina: [00:36:00] Yeah, the, I run into that issue [00:36:01] Brett: [00:36:01] plugin a day and got used to that plugin and fully understood that plugin before I installed another one, I probably be in better shape. [00:36:10] Christina: [00:36:10] You would, and I run into the same exact problem that you do, where I do the same thing. Like I get super excited and then I’m like, what is even causing this issue? And then I’d have to disable them all and go through it again. And then I go through my own rabbit hole of spending all times time configuring my text editor and not actually doing the stuff that I needed to get done. [00:36:28] So, yeah. [00:36:29] Brett: [00:36:29] We got from bipolar disorder to text editors in three steps. That is, that is peak overtired right there. [00:36:39] Christina: [00:36:39] Honestly, it really is. I was going to say, because our podcast is about three things. It’s about Taylor Swift, obviously it’s about the mental health and it’s about text editors, [00:36:48] Brett: [00:36:48] Yeah. I mean, you could generalize that and say it’s about tech, but it really, [00:36:53] Christina: [00:36:53] really tech [00:36:54] Brett: [00:36:54] it does come down to text editors. [00:36:57] Christina: [00:36:57] Honestly, every, every, I mean, look, everything is, is, [00:37:00] is, is VIM versus Emacs at the end of the day. And [00:37:03] Brett: [00:37:03] Damn. [00:37:05] Christina: [00:37:05] absolutely. I mean, Emacs is a disease. I’m sorry. I don’t, I mean, I see [00:37:11] Brett: [00:37:11] third title option. [00:37:13] Christina: [00:37:13] Ooh, that is a good one. I mean like, look, I’m impressed. Sometimes when I see videos of people using org mode and then I’m like, God, no, [00:37:23] Brett: [00:37:23] Yup. I just, I think I never gave Emacs that much of a chance. VIM sunk in for me a lot faster. And I just was happy to leave. What little I knew about Emacs behind. I can’t, I can’t make a, a valid point for point comparison between the two. [00:37:43] Christina: [00:37:43] No, and I don’t actually care because I don’t use either. But, um, I do like to troll [00:37:49] Brett: [00:37:49] I see, I use, I use them all the time when I’m SSH into a remote machine I don’t want to download a file and edit it [00:38:00] and push it back. I just want to edit it right there on the server. So I’ve gotten really good at VIM for quick edits and. Even like w my blog is published via Jekyll and it, it, it builds and deploys on a machine in my basement. [00:38:18] And, uh, if I want to make a quick edit to a post and then, and build it to go live again, it’s way faster for me to just SSH and make the edit. Make the get commit and build. Um, so I’m actually, yeah, I’ve gotten good with them pretty much because of SSH. [00:38:39] Christina: [00:38:39] Yeah, see, that’s interesting. And then for me, like our mate was, has been, is, you know, I’ve used that since that’s been a thing. Um, so that’s like closing in a [00:38:49] Brett: [00:38:49] actually forgot about army. Yeah. [00:38:52] Christina: [00:38:52] And, and so that was just the, I used to always just install that on all servers, but now visual studio codes, remote [00:39:00] option. Okay. Is, ah, mazing like it’s so good. [00:39:04] Yeah, it is so good. And it actually it’s, it’s even. It’s amazing on windows even. So in windows, one of my favorite things is, is WSL two, which is the windows subsystem for Linux, which basically gives you all of your Linux user land stuff. Um, uh, but, um, you still have access to all the gooey things of windows. [00:39:24] And the first version was sort of slow from an IO perspective because there was. Some emulation going on and like some translating between calls. And so if you’re running, like get commands or you’re building stuff and, and Python, like it could be really slow now though, it’s running in, uh, like a, a virtual machine, but it’s a really small virtual machine and it’s super fast. [00:39:48] So basically what’s happened is that even windows 10 home is basically using, if you, if you enable WSL to. Uh, both the host, OOS and [00:40:00] WSL too. We’ll both run in their own hypervisor VMs. Um, and, and so that’s like running that, like the, uh, you know, like the, um, like, you know, hardware level. Um, and, and so, um, the VM is super quick to, to, to boot up it’s super fast. [00:40:18] And what this means is that you have basically near native access. To the underlying hardware, but also to do any of this stuff that you need to do in WSL too. And they’re working on GPU pass through right now to make that better. So you could do, you know, gooey stuff, but one of the things you can do with a remote extension for visual studio code is basically have that configure to use your WSL to backend. [00:40:42] So if you’re in windows, you are accessing all of the, you know, uh, good new tools. From WSL to when you’re piling your code or doing anything else with it, you’re not using any of the versions of Python or PHP or Ruby or anything else that’s installed on [00:41:00] windows. You’re using the Linux versions. You’re using Linux commands and the terminal. [00:41:05] And your files are being accessed, you know, in, in native kind of real time. And then you’re able to push them up to, uh, wherever you want to. And that’s, if you’re accessing local files, but if you’re doing this on a remote server, basically when you configure it, it’s, it’s the same sort of thing where it’s like I’m in my home editor. [00:41:22] I’m seeing all the files that I would see from my server that I would ask cessation to you. I can SSH into it directly from the S code. I can make my edits and push it up and it will go it’ll handle all the key stuff. It’ll, it’ll do everything in real time. Exactly what I want it to. It’s amazing. The way that the tunneling works is super easy to set up. [00:41:41] It’s fantastic. Like it’s. Unreal and WSL too keeps getting better. Like they just added in a preview version this week that they support accessing, um, Linux format of discs and things like within windows, Explorer and WSL [00:42:00] too. So you can Mount external desks. That you can then have access to both from windows explore or with NWSL too, even if it is on like, it’s a completely different disk, it doesn’t work with partitions yet. [00:42:13] It’s just, it works with full desk, but you can Mount those now, which is pretty awesome. [00:42:16] Brett: [00:42:16] Wow. I, uh, like have you ever played with net cat? [00:42:22] Christina: [00:42:22] Yeah. [00:42:23] Brett: [00:42:23] Like I, I spent time trying to recreate our mate using Netcat and, uh, SSH listeners, um, and just being able to. I edit locally and, and have it affect remotely. And it’s a mess. I, I I’m impressed by what you’re describing. Um, [00:42:44] Christina: [00:42:44] no, I’m putting the link in our, um, uh, document to the remote overview because it is awesome. So for anybody who wants to do anything also, the way it works with containers is amazing. If you ever do anything with containers, you want to use the remote extension [00:43:00] because it really makes it easy to do. [00:43:01] You can either connect by SSH, uh, using a VM. You can also work with like a sandbox. Like container-based like tool chain, if you want to Mount directly into a container. Um, and, and you can do that off of basically any container including kind of a remote machine and, and you can do it, you know, um, from, from WSL to it’s. [00:43:20] It’s really good. Um, there’s also a new thing it’s in preview right now. Uh, it’s in private beta, but it’s going to be opening up more broadly called visual studio. Uh, excuse me. Uh, get hub code spaces, visual studio code spaces is being deprecated and being rolled into get hub code spaces. And what this is, is it’s visual studio code in the browser. [00:43:38] But in this case, it is something that you can kick off directly from a GitHub repo. And it’ll basically spin up an instance in the cloud of visual studio code that you can access in the browser, or if you want to, to in, in the native app. Yeah. But the cool thing is, is that it, it uses containers. So if you wanted, for instance to say, okay, It will basically create, you know, like [00:44:00] it’s your VM or like, or instance of your project, it’ll basically say, okay, I’m going to spin up these containers in these situations and this infrastructure. [00:44:08] That I have access to, I don’t have to download everything on my own. I don’t have to worry about configuring my own system to match what my server is. I can just have this instance that’s running identically and I can access it either in my web browser. And this also means on the iPad, or if I want to use the remote extension, I can access that cloud instance in my like full fledged, um, you know, application. [00:44:34] But. Everything I’m accessing is, is going through like that, that cloud instance. And I’m just like, I’m. I was just like, if it were my own machine. [00:44:44] Brett: [00:44:44] That’s some crazy shit, Christina. [00:44:46] Christina: [00:44:46] Yeah. It’s pretty awesome. Sorry to, to nerd out about that, but this is, this is the stuff that I’m, but I get to see that we work on, but is like some of the most exciting stuff. [00:44:54] Brett: [00:44:54] You are in the right job for you. [00:44:56]Christina: [00:44:56] Totally. [00:44:57] Brett: [00:44:57] Um, since we’re, since we’re getting super [00:45:00] nerdy, what’s your cable situation? Like my two I’m I’m looking for cable management tips. [00:45:09] Christina: [00:45:09] Uh, I wish I could help you. [00:45:12] Brett: [00:45:12] I have a tip. Um, I can’t remember what they’re called now. Uh, they’re one ties or something like that. They’re the, it’s this role you get of little Velcro cable wraps and it comes in a great big, like, uh, it’s like a roll of tape and you just peel off. Quick, I w whatever they’re called, there’ll be in the show notes. [00:45:36] If you need what I’m about to describe, uh, check the show notes, but you can, with one hand you can peel off, uh, uh, like I think about eight inches of, uh, thin Velcro that you can wrap real quick around whatever. And it’s easy enough to tear them. If you only need like four inches to get around a smaller cable bundle, uh, you can just grab it with your [00:46:00] teeth and. [00:46:00] Tara, you don’t need scissors or anything. Um, they’re really cool, but I still, yeah, no. I just basically have a bunch of neatly tied cables in a pile. I want, like, I want, I’ve seen these systems with like channel systems where. All the cables are routed through neat, tidy little tubes. And I just don’t understand how that works because all of my devices are in different places on my desk. [00:46:28] So the cables come from different directions. How do people do this? [00:46:33] Christina: [00:46:33] So I just got one of those uplift desks and, um, it did come with a lot of cable management stuff and I’m still not completely optimized, but it did come with one of those tubes that is really long that you can kind of, you know, migrate things through. And then it has like a, um, like a wire management tray that, um, you can store a lot of your cables in, but also your power adapters to kind of get things out of the way. [00:46:58] Uh, and then [00:47:00] the way that the desk works is that underneath it, you can either connect either with Velcro or with, you know, other types of things. Like there are ways that you can like cable manage and connect things up through kind of the bottom to hide. So the, um, that’s what I’m, I’m kind of, kind of trying to look at it as like how I can do it the best on my desk, but I’m also kind of going to the place where I’m like, all right, a lot of this is just going to be about hiding it and probably not actually. You know, [00:47:29] Brett: [00:47:29] I’m okay. I’d be okay. I’d be okay with hiding it. Except I do run into that thing where I need to unplug one thing and it takes me five minutes just to trace its cable back to like the, the power or the, uh, surge protector. And then I have to untangle it from a thousand other cables. [00:47:48] Christina: [00:47:48] Yeah. And this is why I’m what I’m thinking about doing. Cause the, the. Fuel management kit that I bought with the desk or whatever came with a surge protector. And it’s fine. It’s just basic. But what I’m actually thinking of doing is getting one, [00:48:00] either from uplift or from another company, and then mounting it under the bottom of the desk so that, um, I can kind of plug things in quickly and unplug things in and like focus on that. [00:48:13] Being the stuff that I would frequently plug and unplug. And then like, let the other stuff just kind of be in that wire, you know, because I’m like, all right, I know I’m not going to unplug this, you know, but if it’s, but if it’s like, right, but if it’s like a hard drive or, you know, like, uh, um, A microphone or something that gets moved around a light, you know, like that’s the first like, okay. [00:48:35] That might need to be unplugged re plugged in, but there’s some things I’m like, this is never moving. Um, and so that, that at least like my desk, I know at my office, our IP, uh, uh, on campus, who knows if we’ll ever see that again. Um, I sure hope so that, um, Desk did have like a really nice mounted search protector underneath the desk, which was bad-ass [00:49:00] because that, let me plug in like my doc and you know, other stuff. [00:49:04] And it’s like, okay, I might, there might be cables from my doc that get unplugged, but the doc itself has never going to get unplugged. Like that’s always going to be plugged in. And like, my monitors are going to be plugged in and there was like enough space between them that it wouldn’t be hard to find stuff. [00:49:18] So. [00:49:19] Brett: [00:49:19] think I need, if I’m going to actually get this cable situation under control, I need more space. I feel like the secret to not having all of your cables in a big pile is to have room to spread them out. [00:49:31] Christina: [00:49:31] no, I think so. I think this is, this is why I got the desk that takes up my entire office [00:49:35] Brett: [00:49:35] Yeah. Yeah. [00:49:37] Christina: [00:49:37] and I did it. It’s a 72 by 30. So it’s, [00:49:41] Brett: [00:49:41] mine has a treadmill, which also takes up a lot of space. [00:49:44] Christina: [00:49:44] See, this is the problem, right? Yeah. Is it, you’ve got the treadmill thing, which is important, but, [00:49:49] Brett: [00:49:49] Is it though? [00:49:50] Christina: [00:49:50] I mean, I would say no, but then I don’t care about things like exercise. [00:49:55] Oh, have I told you about my chair drama? [00:49:58] Brett: [00:49:58] No. Well, [00:50:00] maybe tell me, tell me, and I’ll tell you if you already told me or [00:50:04] Christina: [00:50:04] Okay. So I ordered a $1,500 chair and, um, I, uh, Okay. Okay. They are at least taking care of this, but I ordered a $1,500 chair and it arrived broken [00:50:16] Brett: [00:50:16] Oh, is this that gaming one from, uh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. You brought this chair up before. I don’t remember hearing it was broken. [00:50:24] Christina: [00:50:24] Yeah. No, I don’t think you knew. So it is, it is, uh, they are dealing with the, with the return. Um, they said that, um, uh, basically, uh, that they will be. Be getting back to me. Um, so they will be working on that to make sure that, that I will get some sort of replacement, but I haven’t heard anything other than I will be receiving something about when I will get a replacement, but it had arrived, broken. [00:50:51] And, uh, I was on the phone with, I was on hold and never actually got in touch with the human being. But I was on hold for about three hours one day to try to [00:51:00] get in touch with someone could not. Um, I’ve had two different emails, indications, one email was more responsive than the other. And then the one that was more responsive, they were like, Oh, we just realized there was another thing already emotion, please refer to that email. [00:51:12] I’m like, but you were so much nicer or something faster helped me. So I’m trying to figure that out. And of course I’ve already gotten rid of the box, so I’m going to have to wait for them to replace the box. This chair is massive, but yeah, pretty disappointing to get a chair where the lack of it is, is there’s like supposed to be a thing where it’s attached and like, it was. [00:51:31] Just clear as days snapped off. And this is apparently a pretty common problem that they have. Um, and you know, they’ll be able to fix it. Um, so many new ones they’ll be able to fix it and resell it, whatever, but pretty disappointing when you wait awhile, get your chair and then it’s broken [00:51:48] Brett: [00:51:48] you were excited about that. [00:51:49] Christina: [00:51:49] I was, and then you [00:51:50] Brett: [00:51:50] you texted me as you were ordering it. [00:51:53] Christina: [00:51:53] I did, I was so excited. And then, and then, and then, you know, you get it and then you’re like, okay, it’s broken. [00:52:00] And don’t know when you’re going to get your work placement. And I mean, I know they’ll take care of me and it’s, it’s usable until then, but it’s still frustrating. [00:52:08] Brett: [00:52:08] yeah, yeah. That sucks. I’m sorry. [00:52:11] Christina: [00:52:11] That’s okay. It’s fine. It’s it’s all this computer stuff in general. Uh, there’s an issue with the iMac as well with all the IMAX that use my video card, where there is a weird graphical glitch. There’s like a 50 page thread on Mac rumors about it, and Apple’s aware. Who knows when it will be taken care of my personal feeling on it is that I don’t see it cause I have an extra monitor hooked up, so I’m fine. [00:52:34] Um, but it is frustrating when you spend close to $5,000 on a computer and then it’s not perfect. But, um, an Apple is like been in contact with people and getting their, their logs and stuff. It seems pretty likely that this is some sort of driver glitch with the AMD 5,700 XT and a Catalina. Cause it doesn’t happen in windows. [00:52:55] It doesn’t happen when you have an external monitor connected. It’s this weird thing, but [00:53:00] people are understandably really, really pissed. And, but I’m kind of in this weird place where I’m like, look, if they won’t fix it, then I have no problem taking one for the team and going Karen on like everybody’s ass and like getting this taken care of. [00:53:14] But. Like, I don’t know what people want them to do. Like you can’t order a replacement. It seems pretty clear that this is not a hardware thing as a software thing, because every single computer has this. If it does turn out to be a hardware thing, okay. We’ll hold them accountable and have some sort of replacement plan that, you know, well, before it’s on them, but it’s like, I would have no problem telling somebody, okay. [00:53:36] If this is going to bother you do not order this computer with this graphics card. Like I have no problem saying hold off. Right. But if you already have one, this, this weird thing where I feel like I’m in this, this bizarre situation where like me, who’s the most uptight and like, I want to speak to your manager, if things aren’t perfect person, like I’m remarkably blahzay about it because I’m kind of [00:54:00] like, well, it’s either going to get fixed or it’s not, I have AppleCare and maybe this trust is unfounded, but I do trust them that they’re going to take care of me one way or another. [00:54:10] Like, and if they’re not American express sure is so, Oh shit. Oh shit. I didn’t pay with American express. I paid with Apple card. Okay. Well, all right. Well, Well, Goldman Sachs, you know what I mean? Like there, there will be, there will be something that will be, you know, taken care of. But I do understand, you know, I find myself going, I, I mentioned this on Twitter that I find myself becoming more and more like John Siracusa all the time. [00:54:39] And, um, this is the sort of thing that would drive John Siracusa insane. But since I don’t see it. And even if though I’m aware of it, I don’t love it. I’m kind of like, all right, I’m just going to like, let this go. As, as far as, you know, I can, until it, if, if, if they, if they try to kind of seem like we’re not going to fix this [00:55:00] and we’re going to kind of let you suffer, that’s when you have hell to pay. [00:55:03] But until then, I’m like, they can’t do this overnight. Like this isn’t going to be fixed, you know, immediately I’m I’m okay with just like waiting, which maybe that’s growth. [00:55:15] Brett: [00:55:15] my rabbi has a new iMac. That, uh, is having USB issues like weird undiagnosable USB issues where like power clicks on and clicks off or hard drives, operate, but frequently get like, if he is backing up to time machine it’ll frequent errors that seem like they can be traced back to USB glitches and. It doesn’t seem to be a specific port and it just, all this weirdness going on that all centers around USB and he seems reticent to contact support. [00:55:57] So he keeps contacting me, [00:56:00] um, as a, as a good Jew, I do my best to help my rabbi. He’s not really my, he he’s a rabbi that I really like. So I guess that makes him mind. Right? [00:56:15] Christina: [00:56:15] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don’t know if you can call yourself a good [00:56:18] Brett: [00:56:18] I cannot, although he tells me that in his, in his, uh, reform Judaism congregation, they have atheists. [00:56:27] Christina: [00:56:27] Oh, that’s actually pretty [00:56:28] Brett: [00:56:28] It is pretty awesome. Like it is not. The reform Judaism is about, uh, I don’t want to put words in his mouth. There’s a, his interview with me for systematic is coming out. Uh, by the time this goes live, it’ll be out tomorrow. [00:56:46] So if you want to hear from rabbi Eric lender, check out systematic tomorrow. Um, systematic pod.com. What do you want to promote? [00:56:55] Christina: [00:56:55] Uh, I want to promote rockets. On a relay FM, um, [00:57:00] relay.fm/or really fm.com/rocket. Um, we are getting close on 300 episodes, which is amazing. And we’re going to have, uh, a big thing with that, which will encompass us mostly me eating really terrible flavored candy corn, um, out of punishment because I didn’t clean my office. Uh, although I might be able to like lose some, um, some candy corns that I have to eat, but yeah. Um, I’m, I’m, uh, rock, rock, rock, rock. And I can’t believe we’ve been doing it as long as we’ve been doing it. Um, and you and I we’ve actually been doing over tired longer than I’ve been doing rocket, but rocket has been consistent. so, you know, that’s, that’s how that works, but no, but. [00:57:46] Brett: [00:57:46] I’ve been doing systematics since like 2012, maybe. Yeah. It’s been like eight years. I only have 230 some episodes though. [00:57:58] Christina: [00:57:58] Yeah, no, we’ve been, [00:58:00] this rocket is, is been like kind of my most consistent podcast ever in the sense that it’s like, yeah. You know what I’ve been, we’ve been doing it every week. I think we’ve had a couple of weeks off, but very few, we started in January of 2015. And, um, yeah, so I’m excited about that, but I’m excited to listen to the systematic with, with your rabbi. [00:58:23] He should just call Apple though. How long ago did he buy the iMac? Cause it sounds like there’s something maybe hardware going on. [00:58:28] Brett: [00:58:28] I don’t remember. We’ll have to ask him. I can text him right now. We, we text all the time. [00:58:36] Christina: [00:58:36] Yeah. Cause I mean, [00:58:37] Brett: [00:58:37] I have a [00:58:38] Christina: [00:58:38] Yeah, I love that you have a rabbi, but I mean, I’m just saying like, I mean, you know, uh, I do understand, I think you and I are both in those situations where we become a factor of tech support and also does this happen to you because I’m defacto tech support everyone else. I really do hate contacting actual tech support. [00:58:57] Brett: [00:58:57] Um, I, yeah, no, I never [00:59:00] contact tech support. I, I, I don’t know if it’s because of. Being everyone else’s tech support. I just, I don’t like doing it. I also don’t like it. When people contact me, I feel like you probably more often have the answers for people than I do. Uh, plus you can answer both windows and Mac questions and I haven’t used windows since the early two thousands and would be [00:59:24] Christina: [00:59:24] Oh, I can’t answer a window’s questions, please. All I can do is tweet about, about it and usually get somebody who knows an answer. I can’t answer windows questions please. Um, [00:59:35] Brett: [00:59:35] you have, you have, uh, you have the Twitter, the Twitter Hivemind at your disposal. [00:59:41] Christina: [00:59:41] This is actually very true, which is very helpful. The only problem with, I will say this, and this is actually okay. This is a weird thing. This is very interesting. I hadn’t thought about this until now. So the Twitter hive mind when I ask a window’s question is much less mansplaining than the Mac. Then if I ask them that question. [00:59:59] Brett: [00:59:59] Really [01:00:00] that’s that’s seems counterintuitive to me. [01:00:03] Christina: [01:00:03] Uh, same actually complete same. [01:00:06] Brett: [01:00:06] I definitely think of the Mac as the female in the windows, Mac, uh, pairing [01:00:13] Christina: [01:00:13] I would, I would agree with you on that, but yet if I ask a question for about iOS or Mac OS and I’m coming at this from a place of being, like, the only reason I’m asking is because this is weird. I get. All of the mansplaining reset, your P Ram reset your, you know, this and that. And I’m like, you’re in V Ram. [01:00:31] I’m like, and I’m like, you know, I’m like, seriously, shut up. This is a weird thing. Like this is, this is not a unique thing that I’m trying to tell you. Obviously I know all these basic steps. I’m saying, if this has happened in a weird way, what’s going on and all I will get is like the most mansplaining answers. [01:00:47] And if it’s a windows thing, even if it’s something like really weird with SharePoint or something, Which, you know, God, they talk with people who do like the, the really like unloved work people who are [01:01:00] SharePoint admins, because that software is an abomination yet it is responsible for so much of so much enterprise stuff. [01:01:06] And man, I have nothing but respect for those people. We don’t, we don’t like love them enough, but, but if I ask questions about that, I get really good. Answers that aren’t making assumptions, that I’m an idiot. Like it’s a really weird thing where the assumption is not your moron and you don’t know anything and you haven’t tried stuff. [01:01:25] It’s like, huh, that’s interesting. Have you looked at this or this? You know what I mean? Like it’s not. [01:01:31] Brett: [01:01:31] I think that might be part of the reason I don’t call tech support is because I always have to start the conversation at that point where they assume I’m an idiot. The, at the, have you tried rebooting and I like asking questions in places where people know. They give me the respect that if I haven’t figured this out yet, it means I’ve tried all of the obvious stuff and there’s a foundation that they can start with. [01:01:58] And yeah, it drives me nuts [01:02:00] when I feel like I have to explain to people that I do know what I’m doing. [01:02:05] Christina: [01:02:05] Yes. You’re you’re, you’re exactly correct. And it’s so funny. Um, I actually ran into that recently. Not that recently, I guess, a couple of months ago with, um, an Apple, um, uh, care thing, because I needed to get my iPad replaced because the battery was not lasting. It was hot. It had actually been an issue since got the iPad to be totally honest. [01:02:24] I noticed it basically the week I got the iPad pro and it’s a 2018. I noticed basically the week I got it, that it was. Probably not performing the way that it should have been. It was getting really hot and the battery would, would drain really quickly. And, um, I just kind of let it go cause it wasn’t that big of a deal. [01:02:41] And then finally it was getting to the point, especially as I’m using my iPad pro more and more than I’m like, right. I need to just get this replaced. I have Apple care for a reason. Just get those replaced. And, um, and it was getting really, really hot all the time. Um, even when nothing was running and like you, you know, you could just see the battery just draining. [01:02:59] So I [01:03:00] call Apple care because I can’t go into the stores and, um, They’re nice enough, but she tries to kind of walk me through some troubleshooting processes and she tries to walk me through troubleshooting process where she’s like, well, can you enable the low battery mode? And I’m like, but this is an iPad. [01:03:17] And she’s like, right. And like, there’s not a low battery. There’s not a low battery mode on, on, on iPad iOS. And like, she didn’t know that. And, and I’m like, okay, you know, I finally, I [01:03:29] Brett: [01:03:29] in my binder. [01:03:31] Christina: [01:03:31] Exactly. And I’m like, Oh my God, like, yeah, no, this is, this is not a thing. And an iPad OSTP. And, and I, you know, had to kind of talk a little more and I was like, look, I’m telling you, I can tell what this is like, this the seems I think finally, I think she just got frustrated cause she was like, well, we’ll just send you replacement. [01:03:46] I was like, thank you. That’s all I wanted. So I mailed off, you know, the, the replacement and um, they sent me the new one. I sent off the old one. Fine. Um, but yeah, that’s like kind of reminded me where I’m like, yeah, I’m calling these [01:04:00] places. And like you like w there was a time when I used to have to call tech support more frequently, where I would almost immediately always ask for like a level two tech. [01:04:08] I would almost immediately just be like, look. You need to, I just need to speak to a supervisor. I just need to go to a level two level three person when I would call for, I learned that trick ironically from Comcast, because I remember, I remember I was having cable modem issues and they were again, like treating me, like I was an idiot and it was actually turned out to be a much more significant like technical problem with the lines itself. [01:04:29] And it was, um, the tech who was finally like, cause I was getting the run around. I was really frustrated and I was like 19 or 20. And. And he was like, okay, so in the future, you know, because this is this, he was like, you’re right. This is the sort of thing you need to come to me for. He was like, just ask for a level two or a level three tech. [01:04:47] And that’s how you can, you can bypass all of the, have you, have you plugged in your cable modem? You know, have you reset your router? Have you done that? And I’m like, and I’m like, no, this is a line issue. This is not like a me issue. [01:05:00] Like I have other things on my network that are running. This is, this is not the problem. [01:05:05] Um, so. Sometimes that’ll work, sometimes it won’t, but yeah, that is always the most frustrating thing. When you have to prove your worth. Now, fortunately being a woman on the internet breasts, uh, I have a lifetime of history in having to assert myself. I had to say, no, no, I’m not a moron actually. Um, when I, [01:05:28] Brett: [01:05:28] I’ve watched this phenomenon. I constantly am thankful. I’m not a woman on the internet. Uh, and also I feel awful for so many of the women that I see having daily shit, they have to go through. That wouldn’t happen if they just changed their avatar to a guy and changed their name to a guy name, [01:05:49] Christina: [01:05:49] I know if I went by Chris instead of Christina, my life be so much easier. No, it’s um, When I was a journalist as like my full time career, when I would talk [01:06:00] to technical people, I got into this habit that I, you know, try to kind of bet towards the last few years I tried to kind of back off on because I felt really defensive about it. [01:06:11] But early on, one of the things I felt like I had to do almost immediately was if I was interviewing somebody to get about some sort of technical thing was, was assert my. Technical skill level within my first or second question, just so they would treat me as like, not just a dumb reporter. Um, and, and I can understand honestly, why they would, I don’t even know how much of that was a gender thing. [01:06:38] I think there’s a subconscious gender part of that, but I, that I don’t even completely blame people who are doing that on, because it’s like you talk to a lot of people who are not going to be at that level. But for me, it was always really important to kind of like, I would need to almost like make the assertion and be like, no, I, I’m not an idiot. [01:06:57] I know what we’re talking about. [01:07:00] [01:06:59] Brett: [01:06:59] Yeah, I feel like I have to do that in some situations. And I can imagine what it would be like to pretty much always have to do that to never, to never have the, uh, starting assumption that you know, what you’re doing. [01:07:15] Christina: [01:07:15] yeah, no, [01:07:15] Brett: [01:07:15] like I get, I feel like people assume way too often that I know what I’m doing. [01:07:19]Christina: [01:07:19] Yeah, no, I think you’re, you, you, you perfectly summed it up at the starting this. You never had the starting assumption that you know what you’re doing ever. [01:07:27] Brett: [01:07:27] So check this out. Um, I have wrap it up music. This is the, uh, this is the, you don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here. Music. [01:07:38] Christina: [01:07:38] Let’s hear this. [01:07:39] Brett: [01:07:39] It’s playing right now. It’s soft so that we can keep talking over it. [01:07:43] Christina: [01:07:43] I love it. I love it. This is, this is, this is a good beat. I’m a fan of this. [01:07:47] Brett: [01:07:47] a, it’s got a little Congo action. Yeah. Um, so this is like, this is what we play as we, as we wrap up and we say what we’re going to have for homework. Cause we didn’t do any homework [01:08:00] this week. We’re supposed to talk about reality bites, which I feel at the moment has passed on. Um, [01:08:06] Christina: [01:08:06] Yeah. I feel like the moment has passed on that. Although, did you get invited to the Plex that I told James to invite you [01:08:11] Brett: [01:08:11] I stopped looking for invites. I will, I will check tonight. Um, but I didn’t get any notification of an invite. [01:08:19] Christina: [01:08:19] Oh, real quick, because the, this, this all did that. Um, he created this after we recorded our episode, but, uh, um, Christina Warren, um, what’s the website. Uh, he basically created a, a [01:08:36] Brett: [01:08:36] is a bad influence or something like [01:08:38] Christina: [01:08:38] Yes. As a bad influence.com. Um, yes, Christina Warren is a bad influence.com. If you go there and we will have this in the show notes, it is, it is a queen moose, uh, chemo. [01:08:49] However, however, the hell you stay at session of a Hannah Montana Linux that anybody can play for an access in the browser. [01:09:00] So, James, thank you very, very much for that. Uh, both the URL and the website are amazing, and that is, uh, Maybe one of my favorite things that anybody has ever created to troll me ever. [01:09:12] Brett: [01:09:12] I can’t believe it took you this long into the show to give that shout out. [01:09:17] Christina: [01:09:17] I can’t either. I think I blame it on the fact that I was very tired when we recorded this episode and I’d already delayed it by three hours. So that’s what I’m putting that on in classic overtired fashion. [01:09:28] Brett: [01:09:28] All right. Well, um, I, I would say that I would like next week, I think I would like to talk about the new Hulu show woke. [01:09:39] Christina: [01:09:39] Okay. I will start watching [01:09:40] Brett: [01:09:40] Give it a couple episodes. The first one. Like, it’s hard to tell where it’s going with just the first episode. So you need two episodes to get an understanding of the premise itself. So watch two, and then if you feel like watching more, feel free, but I need to watch some more [01:10:00] myself before. [01:10:00] I’m absolutely sure that it’s worth talking about. Uh, but right now I’m super intrigued by it. [01:10:05] Christina: [01:10:05] Okay. I will check that out. And, um, we, we didn’t talk about the, the beanie Feldstein, um, movie that I rented, um, that you recommended to me, but that did remind me of, have you seen Booksmart? Okay. You need to watch book-smart, which, uh, was one of my favorite movies [01:10:24] Brett: [01:10:24] could not convince my girlfriend to watch it with me, so I have to watch it. Yeah, [01:10:29] Christina: [01:10:29] She might are actually, I think she’d really like it [01:10:32] Brett: [01:10:32] I will. I will tell her, you said so. [01:10:35] Christina: [01:10:35] it’s really, really, really good. And Olivia Wilde directed it and Olivia Wilde is a hell of a director. She actually has just been announced that she’s going to be directing the next Spiderman film. Um, which is pretty awesome. And, um, yeah, but, uh, but no, but Booksmart is really good, but it made me think of that since, um, uh, beanie Feldstein is in the other movie that you recommended, um, that, [01:11:00] uh, that I watch. [01:11:02] Brett: [01:11:02] Yeah. W w we need them. Okay. Next time we’re having a movie section for [01:11:06] Christina: [01:11:06] All right. We’re having, we’re having a movie section for sure. All right. So I will watch woke [01:11:10] Brett: [01:11:10] is this music making you tense? [01:11:13] Christina: [01:11:13] a little [01:11:13] Brett: [01:11:13] Yeah, me too. I think that was the whole point though, is supposed to like, convince us to wrap up. [01:11:19] Christina: [01:11:19] Yeah. I mean, I think we keep it, but I don’t know when you just turned it off, but yeah. Um, okay, so, so next episode, we will have like a whole section on movies. I will watch woke. You will watch books smart and, uh, yeah. Okay. [01:11:34] Brett: [01:11:34] Yeah. Book-smart alright. I got it. I got my homework. I’m good. All right. [01:11:40] Christina: [01:11:40] All right, Brett. All right, well, take care of yourself. Um, you know, hope that everything can kind of come back more to normal [01:11:46] Brett: [01:11:46] Yeah, I’m about to I’m. Uh, I just slept last night. Uh, so the, the manic episode is over, but I’m about to very likely head into depression for a few days here. So [01:11:58] Christina: [01:11:58] Whew. [01:12:00] All right. I’m wishing you luck, but at least you got your meds, right? For your, your ADHD stuff. All right. That’s good. At least. Cause there’d be nothing worse than having the depression and no meds. [01:12:08] Brett: [01:12:08] Yes, that that those, those days are awful. Those are not get out of bed days. [01:12:12] Christina: [01:12:12] Yeah. Agreed to have been there. Not recommended, so. All right. Well, Brett, get some sleep. Take care of yourself. [01:12:21] Brett: [01:12:21] Get some sleep, Christina. [01:12:24] Christina: [01:12:24] Yeah.

Talking about Brett’s week without ADHD meds somehow leads to a look at things that have to do with the Holocaust that you didn’t know had anything to do with the Holocaust. Shit gets real. Sponsor Thanks to ExpressVPN for sponsoring today’s show. ExpressVPN keeps your browsing private, not just from hackers, but from ISPs who track your internet usage and sell your history. Visit ExpressVPN.com/systematic to get an additional 3 months for free. Show Links Angry Video Game Nerd Earthbound game YouTube Radical IBM and the Holocaust Hannah Montana Linux Stream Deck Open Broadcast System Keyboard Maestro Elgato Keylight Air Camo – Use your phone as a pro webcam, free Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett and Christina-1 [00:00:00]Brett: [00:00:00] Welcome to overtired. We used to go back and forth on doing these, uh, these, these intros. And I’ve just been, I’ve just been taking them. I haven’t even given you a chance, Christina. [00:00:12] Christina: [00:00:12] you haven’t. And you know, I was actually thinking that I was like, I guess this is just the Brett show now. Now I’m kidding. Uh, [00:00:19] Brett: [00:00:19] always been the bread show. Let’s be honest. [00:00:22] Christina: [00:00:22] This is true. It has always been the fresh show. Yeah, no, we used to always go back and forth. Let’s try that for next week. I’ll try to, to introduce it again for our long time listeners, but for, for new people. [00:00:34] Brett: [00:00:34] Why don’t we do? Why don’t we do both this week? Why don’t, why don’t you do it right now? [00:00:38]Christina: [00:00:38] welcome to overtired. I’m Christina Warren, how are you doing Brett? [00:00:44] Brett: [00:00:44] I am good. Um, Yeah, this feels better. We should have done this to start with. That should have been the way we started the episode. I, uh, so yeah. Okay. I had some, I had some, uh, some ADHD medication issues this week, but I [00:01:00] need to, I need to complain about, [00:01:03] Christina: [00:01:03] okay. Let’s get into [00:01:04] Brett: [00:01:04] so it used to be back in the, in the dark ages of like, uh, three or four months ago, I used to have to call. [00:01:14] The nurse, the nurse would then call the doctor or email the doctor. The doctor would then mail me prescriptions. And I would wait until the, the clinic told me that my mail had arrived. I would go to the clinic, pick up the envelope and drive that to the pharmacy and then wait for them to fill it a few months back that changed. [00:01:36] And suddenly my doctor was able to, uh, electronically transfer this script. So I could just call the nurse, email the doctor, and then have the script there. Then, uh, she gave me a number to text her directly taking one more part of the chain out. So I could just text my doctor when I needed a refill. [00:02:00] She would electronically transfer this script and then I would go pick it up. [00:02:03] Things got so much easier. And then last week I texted on Tuesday that it was time for my refill and I didn’t hear back. So I texted again on Wednesday when I was completely out of pills. Didn’t hear back finally. Uh, no. Then I texted again on Thursday and then it was Friday morning when I was during the, the introductory introduction meditation to a yoga class. [00:02:30] I realized, Oh shit, I bet you, my doctor quit. And I missed the memo and now I’m, and then I spend the whole class thinking about how. Uh, how I, wasn’t going to have a doctor in Woodenville to get any of my meds. And it was not very meditative. [00:02:45] Christina: [00:02:45] I was going to say, that seems like the worst thing for realization for you to have during yoga, because you don’t want to have like an anxiety attack during your yoga [00:02:54] Brett: [00:02:54] Although it could also be the best time since I was working very hard on things like [00:03:00] breathing and centering myself. So maybe it, it like it was a wash, [00:03:05] Christina: [00:03:05] Yeah. Okay. I can see that. Okay. Anyway, [00:03:07] Brett: [00:03:07] Right after class, I call and I’m like, Hey, is my doctor still work for you? And they said, yes. And I said, okay, so she’s not responding to text messages. [00:03:18] And they put me into the voicemail of the nurse who then called me back a couple hours later to say that, yeah, uh, she she’ll email the doctor. We’re back to the old way of doing things, but the doctor hasn’t been responding to emails. And it’s Friday, which is her day off and Monday’s a holiday. So now I’m going over a full week without my meds, which is not great for much of anything. [00:03:45] But I do have a lot of TV. I could talk about. [00:03:47]Christina: [00:03:47] no, I mean, that’s good. I mean, I’m, I’m really upset that you don’t have your meds and haven’t had them for a week. I’m glad we can talk about TV. I’m concerned that it, [00:04:00] it, you know, that it took this long, like, okay. So how long have you been trying to get in touch with your doctor? [00:04:04] Brett: [00:04:04] Since Tuesday. [00:04:06] Christina: [00:04:06] Okay. This is a question that doesn’t come from judgment because I do this too, but yeah, I am just curious, like, was there a reason you didn’t reach out earlier before you realized you were okay. [00:04:18] Brett: [00:04:18] So the thing with ADHD stimulant medications is if you seem too eager, You run the risk of them thinking you’re abusing your meds and cutting you off. So you have to be very, or at least around here, you have to be very much like, eh, whenever you get to it, no big deal. Ah, you know, whatever’s fine. [00:04:37] Stay, you know, if you feel like it, you can fill those meds. I desperately need to continue my way of life. Uh, so I didn’t want to appear over anxious, uh, to a point I’m like super gun shy about it because it’s bitten me before. [00:04:50] Christina: [00:04:50] Right. [00:04:51] Brett: [00:04:51] I’m more cautious than I need to be, but it’s still this environment where we’re gonna give you drugs that change your life and make it [00:05:00] possible for you to be a normal person. [00:05:02] But we’re also going to stigmatize the taking of these meds and make it next to illegal for you to even fill a prescription. [00:05:10]Christina: [00:05:10] Which I mean, And it’s okay. It’s such bullshit. And it sh it’s so good, different, depending on where you are, who your insurance company is, who your doctor is, which to me is even worse. Right? Like I, not that it would be, not that I would like encourage this because I would then be fucked, but, and a lot of other people would be fucked. [00:05:32] But if this was at least a consistent thing across the country, like if this was something that all doctors kind of followed, then. You know, there’d be a baseline, but instead there’s this, you know, really fucked up system of hierarchies that we as humans and as people with ADHD, I don’t have any control over and it’s not even strictly something where you can be like, Oh, it’s based on your class. [00:05:59] And it’s based on [00:06:00] this and that, like, I’m sure that has things to do with it, but it’s not even strictly based on that. It’s literally based on. You know, this arbitrary thing, which is what doctor you can get, who takes your insurance, or what part of the country you live in as far as what rules they’re going to follow to, again, as you say, how they’re going to treat you with the meds that you need to live a normal life, like just for comparison. [00:06:23]It is, I think this on, on our first show back remarkably easy to the point that it’s probably a little bit too easy for now. This might be changed in Cove at times, but for people who work at Microsoft who go to the doctor’s office, that’s on campus. The way that you could get somebody to just write you a script for some Adderall or Dexedrine or whatever. [00:06:51] Is, I mean, it’s, it’s laughably simple. Um, I hadn’t, I didn’t have any proof of [00:07:00] anything. I didn’t have like my diagnoses. I mean, obviously they’d contacted my doctor and they saw my chart. They would see my whole history of stuff and it would have been fine, but they wrote me, I think it was three scripts of, of my, um, meds. [00:07:13] Now. They ha they don’t have refills and it had to be refilled. Right on time or whatever, but they wrote me like three scripts just based on what I told them in like my annual physical first meeting. And I know people who have gone in, and I’ve just talked about what symptoms they have and have been able to walk out with a script for ADHD medicine. [00:07:35] Again, like if they wanted an ongoing thing, they’d need to get some sort of diagnosis or whatever, but not, not a big deal. And as it seems like, my doctor is not in the state of Washington. And so that does complicate things for refills because technically the pharmacy is supposed to call him, um, or his office and, you know, ensure that I haven’t forged the, um, uh, the script [00:08:00] for the, for it to get filled. [00:08:02] But I would say it’s probably been about 50 50 if that’s actually happened. And one time, I mean, and that pharmacist, like, she will always be my hero. It was like a Saturday and I dropped it off and I was like, look, I know that this or Sunday or something, I was like, look, I know that this is, you know, I’m coming in late. [00:08:19] I can get this, you know, tomorrow, whatever sounded big deal. And she was like, no, you need this. Even though it was the end of the day and filled it for me. Like very, very nice. And, and I’ve been really lucky that way that I’ve had that I’ve also been in situations I’m not for it ADHD meds, but for when I used to be on Provigil. [00:08:39] Which I guess was an ADHD med, um, where that was just a nightmare to get like my insurance stopped covering it. And then it was one of those things where, okay. Unify went over my, um, deductible. I could, even if I met my deductible, um, they would only cover so much with Provigil. And so it got to the point where I was like, Oh, I can’t afford to take this anymore [00:09:00] because this is $1,500 a month. [00:09:02] And that is not something that I can afford to do. Right. [00:09:06] Brett: [00:09:06] Buy the generic with Bitcoin from overseas. If you know where to look. [00:09:11] Christina: [00:09:11] yes. And, and I, I [00:09:12] Brett: [00:09:12] do that with most stimulants, but with, with Provigil you can [00:09:16] Christina: [00:09:16] right and I’d actually looked at that and I tried the new vigil twice and the new vigil just doesn’t work for me. Like actually [00:09:23] Brett: [00:09:23] am the Amarillo version. Yeah. Not as good. [00:09:26] Christina: [00:09:26] Yeah, no, but like the new vigil, which was the one that they created to extend the patents or whatever, that one just fucks me up and it just doesn’t work for me. [00:09:36] But, um, so I haven’t been on Provigil in years and years and I used to love Provigil, but that one was like almost impossible to get. So it’s just such a weird, stupid [00:09:47] Brett: [00:09:47] the insurance requirements around Provigil work crazy. Like you had, you had to have tried Nuvigil first and that had to, you had to have had, like, you had to try for three months and then that had to have not worked. [00:10:00] And then you had to go through all the, uh, What do they call that? When, when the doctor gives you a prescription and you go to the pharmacy, but the insurance company has to call your doctor to make sure they were serious or whatever, uh, pre something authorization. [00:10:15]Um, yeah, like in, by the time I got through all of that, the insurance company then said, Oh, we changed our mind. We can’t give you this drug. And I don’t remember what the final reason was for it, but I never did get Provigil covered by insurance. [00:10:30] Christina: [00:10:30] Yeah, I had it covered when I was under my parents’ insurance. And when I moved from that, and then I was on Cobra for a period of time. Um, and I paid for Cobra and this was when I was working at Mashable and I paid for it, even though it was a lot of money because this was before, um, you [00:10:48] Brett: [00:10:48] cheaper than buying insurance. [00:10:50] Christina: [00:10:50] Um, uh, well, it was still cheaper than buying the medication. [00:10:53] Um, so, uh, this was before the ACA my whole fear was, I was like, okay, I have preexisting conditions. I [00:11:00] can’t get insured because I wouldn’t have been able to get insured for less than what Cobra costs. Um, and so until Nashville got health insurance, I was playing for Cobra. Then Nashville got health insurance, and it was decent and it covered my Provigil at first. [00:11:14] And then I liked. They had some sort of, you know, in the fine print, some sort of hard limit on how much they would pay for medications. And I hit that at like month, three of Provigil and I was like, Oh shit. Okay. And they’re like, yeah, we’re not going to cover this anymore. $1,500. I’m like, Oh, well, that’s, that’s a, that’s a third of my, of my salary. [00:11:35] I do not have that. I’m not doing it. And then when we tried years later, We were on even better insurance. And it was like, they were like, no, this is just not covered. I think it was the same sort of thing with what you said again, you have to try other stuff. And I was just, at that point, I’d been off it for so long. [00:11:52] I was like, okay. I’m, I’m just not gonna be on Provigil. I’m just going to take it. He just prescribed more [00:12:00] me more extra train. Um, But, but yeah, I mean, but this is frustrating to me hearing you talk yeah. About this is that you knew you were running out, you do all the right things. Now you’re going to be out of your meds for, you know, a week when, if you reached out a week before you run out, which is not an insane thing to [00:12:18] Brett: [00:12:18] It’s not. [00:12:20] Christina: [00:12:20] every other medical that I have actually is set to refill, be like, I can, I can call in the refill a week or two before. [00:12:30] You know, it, it it’s do. That’s fine. Um, so that’s not an insane thing to do, but because if you dared like reach out, Oh a week before your meds went out, then they would look at you as some sort of drug seeker, because you’re selling Adderall to kids and it’s like, hate to break it to you, but the kids are gonna find the Adderall. [00:12:51] Brett: [00:12:51] easily than I am actually. [00:12:53] Christina: [00:12:53] uh, no shit. That’s what I was going to say. I was like, I was like, honestly, if you know, if these were normal times and [00:13:00] college campuses were open more broadly, I would say, you should just go to like, you know, university of Minnesota and like ask the teens. And I’m not even joking because they would be able to like, probably get it to you for like, not that much more than, than, um, I mean more than what you’re paying with insurance, but certainly if you needed like, Oh, weeks worth of pills, you could just go and pay for that. [00:13:24] Like it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s stupid. And it’s, as you say, like creates the stigma. I read this thing in slate this week about. A woman who had really difficult labor and was refused, um, any form of opiate, like any form of like Oxy coding, even though she literally had like a hemorrhage and was in like unspeakable pain from, um, labor and. [00:13:52] Just the, the, like I, and there was a whole discussion on the comments from people about how obviously, like the opiate crisis is a real thing [00:14:00] and people need to take it seriously. And yes, for many years, um, opiates were way over prescribed and people got Oxy prescriptions, like it was candy and that’s been very, very bad. [00:14:10] But now it’s swung to this other side where, you know, people who might genuinely need it. Don’t have a way to get it, even in the hospital. Like they will, you know, treat them with, you know, like, like Tylenol. Um, and, and, you know, when, when you, when you’re, you’ve had like a hemorrhage from, from like, you know, labor and, you know, when, when like your, you know, entire, like lower half has been split open, like, you know, uh, sorry, that’s some Tylenol is not gonna not gonna solve that. [00:14:42] Like, you know, um, but, [00:14:45] Brett: [00:14:45] but they give you that special title and all that. They inject in your butt. There I’m serious. There’s one. That’s supposed to be like four times strength, regular Tylenol, and they inject it in your butt. And it’s good for about three hours of a certain amount of pain [00:15:00] relief. Like nothing close to an Oxy, but it helps a little, but I like in that’s when I’ve gone in with like a debilitating back pain, [00:15:10] Christina: [00:15:10] Sure. [00:15:11] Brett: [00:15:11] the best they can give me, but that’s nothing close to like major. [00:15:15] It’s surgical after aftermath or anything like that. [00:15:18] Christina: [00:15:18] Well, that’s what I’m saying. I’m like, if you’ve had a Csection and you’ve hemorrhaged, I’m sorry, but like some, even some like hospital grade Tylenol is not going to touch that. Like that that’s actually like what, like, [00:15:29] Brett: [00:15:29] say Costco grade. [00:15:31] Christina: [00:15:31] no, no. I said, I said, um, I said hospital grade. Costco grade would be funny though. [00:15:36] Um, no, but like, but yeah, I mean, you know, and I can see that for people who have back pain and like, especially, yeah, you gotta be careful with people who are addicts and whatnot, but like it’s shitty that they, you know, but like this pendulum is now swung the other way where doctors are so incredibly, like afraid to prescribe anything that they don’t. [00:15:55] And it’s weird because if you look at other countries, They’re not actually [00:16:00] better with stimulants. That’s the one thing, um, they’re actually usually worse with stimulants, but at least with pain meds, if you go someplace like France or other parts of Europe, they’re a lot more chill about it. Um, and I, I, I’m sure people who are smarter than me have done studies and research into why there’s been an opioid crisis in the United States, but not in other parts of the world. [00:16:26] Uh, and, and I’m sure that a lot of that frankly comes down to the, uh, both the insurance companies and the drug companies and kind of the proliferation of a lot of those things. But it is sort of interesting that so many of the problems that we have in the United States with people getting access to the drugs, they need being able to pay for the drugs they need. [00:16:46] And also the addictions that we have to, um, prescription medications don’t exist. Other places. [00:16:52] Brett: [00:16:52] Well, I mean, they do, but they’re treated as medical issues and not legal issues [00:17:00] [00:16:59] Christina: [00:16:59] okay. That’s fair. [00:17:01] Brett: [00:17:01] addiction is it’s a human condition, but it’s a medical condition. It’s not a moral failing or legal it, we shouldn’t treat addiction with jail. We should treat it with rehab. That seems pretty basic to me. [00:17:20]Christina: [00:17:20] Yeah, no, I [00:17:21] Brett: [00:17:21] find in most of those countries that don’t have major opiate crises, they haven’t criminalized it and they offer treatment options. [00:17:30] They probably also don’t have a major pharmaceutical companies that have basically, uh, uh, what’s the word when you, uh, subsidized doctors. [00:17:43] Christina: [00:17:43] I was going to say. [00:17:44]Brett: [00:17:44] Oxycontin and whatnot, but. [00:17:47] Christina: [00:17:47] No, I was going to say that I actually do think that’s probably a big part of it because, you know, um, as you say, like addiction is a human thing and it’s not like it’s, it’s going to not happen in, in some parts of the world. But I think when you [00:18:00] get rid of that incentive, that so many doctors have from pharmaceutical companies who will pay them essentially to prescribe and to do things, give them kickbacks. [00:18:12] When that system doesn’t exist, then you don’t have situations where people are getting scripts for things that they don’t need and more of it and are, um, you know, maybe watching things to be saying, Hey, I’ve been prescribing you, you know, this thing for a while now. And your accident was a long time ago, and I’m concerned that you might be developing some sort of dependency. [00:18:38] Rather than, you know, what’s happened here, which was that, you know, for many, many years it would just be okay, that’s fine. I’m just going to continue to write this script for you and you’ll become more and more addicted, um, over time and it will devolve into something much more dangerous [00:18:55]anyway. So hopefully you will get your meds, um, on [00:19:00] Tuesday. [00:19:00] Brett: [00:19:00] I sure hope so, or it’s going to be a hell of another week. Hopefully she won’t go back to having to mail the scripts. Cause that took like five days to get through the mail. So I would have to call it like, I would time it to be like six days before I absolutely needed this script. And then just pray that the mail showed up on time. [00:19:20] But anyway, [00:19:21] Christina: [00:19:21] Yeah, I, I, and this is completely my white lady, like privilege because I can go Karen on people and, and it’s sort of socially acceptable, but, uh, This is the sort of situation where I would call if possible, like the nurse again, or whatever on Tuesday and be like, Hey, I’m really not trying to be a pain, I’ve been without my meds for a week. [00:19:43] Brett: [00:19:43] Nurses nurses don’t judge me. Uh, and nurses are good because they make the call as to whether or not it’s worth boating in the doctor about, so I find it, I can, I can, any time I can call a nurse and be like, Hey, do you know what’s up with this? And they don’t, they, they’re not the ones [00:20:00] marking drug seeking behavior on your files. [00:20:02] So, [00:20:03]Christina: [00:20:03] Yeah. [00:20:04] Brett: [00:20:04] um, tell me, [00:20:06] Christina: [00:20:06] sorry. I was going to say, what, what shows have you been watching [00:20:09] Brett: [00:20:09] Oh, [00:20:09] Christina: [00:20:09] what you’ve had time to do? [00:20:10]Brett: [00:20:10] Let’s see, I started watching teenage bounty hunters on Netflix. It’s not good. Um, [00:20:17] Christina: [00:20:17] That doesn’t sound good. [00:20:19] Brett: [00:20:19] no. So I went back and was watching, um, scrubs and, um, and Cougar town [00:20:29] Christina: [00:20:29] Yeah. [00:20:30]Brett: [00:20:30] Oh, and then a lot of YouTube lately, I’ve just been, I’ve been watching all this stuff about like, The history of the world from like a fossil records and early humans and just weird hour long PBS specials on the first hominids stuff like that. [00:20:51] It’s been nuts. It’s been weird. [00:20:53]Christina: [00:20:53] I really I’ve really come to appreciate and enjoy YouTube and ways that I, uh, [00:21:00] I’m sort of embarrassed by sometimes about how much like actual YouTube content I watch sometimes, but it’s, it’s a really good, um, it’s, it’s probably my favorite way to turn my brain off. [00:21:10] Brett: [00:21:10] Yeah, it, but it’s, it can be educational at the same time. It’s uh, it’s where I go to, instead of trying to get into a 30 minute show. I’ll just dive into a 10 minute YouTube video on some topic. I find, you know, tangentially. Interesting. Do you have a favorite channel? [00:21:28]Christina: [00:21:28] I will. It varies because I wash so many different things. Uh, and I mean, No, I don’t think I have like a favorite because a lot of the stuff that I watched on YouTube is actual crap. Like some of it is actually interesting. Like I really love, um, like, um, the, the angry video game nerd or whatever, or he does these, you [00:21:48] Brett: [00:21:48] Angry dad gamer. [00:21:50] Christina: [00:21:50] No. Um, I think that thing has figured out, um, uh, the angry video game nerd. He he’s put her up. He’s been around for a long time. His channel’s name is, um, [00:22:00] cinemassacre and what he does is he. Finds like old video games and he, um, does reviews of them on the systems and just kind of talks about like how good or how bad they were, usually, how bad they work across all their iterations. [00:22:16] Like he did one a couple of years ago where he played all of the home alone games with Macaulay Culkin, which was pretty awesome. Um, because all of those games are terrible. Um, but, but occasionally he really likes the games, which is very rare, which is always like really great, because he loves to be super critical and like obviously gets like, you know, like, um, performatively angry about stuff, but would he played earthbound, which is one of my favorite games of all time, probably my favorite game ever. [00:22:48] Um, like. I love earthbound Soso so much. And I’m, I like, I, like, I can say this about so few games. So I feel like I can actually like, [00:23:00] take, like, be like that asshole. Who’s like I was into it before it was cool, but I genuinely was into earthbound before anybody else cared about it. Like it’s now widely considered one of the best games of all time. [00:23:12] And people like, talk about how great it is, but almost everyone who says that discovered it, like in the two thousands. And I was playing it in 1995. I bought it very soon after it came out, it was like a 60 or $70 game that I paid for with my own money. I was 12. Um, it came with the strategy guide that had like the scratch and stiff stickers and would kind of give you the walkthrough. [00:23:35] And before the game even came out Nintendo, cause it was a super Nintendo game and Nintendo power. You know, wrote a lot of, kind of glowing things about it in their advertorial way that. Frankly, I still really liked and appreciated, um, got me super hype on the game. And I was like, this sounds like exactly the sort of game that, that I love. [00:23:55] Cause it’s this game that takes place in kind of the, not [00:24:00] so distant future. And. It was kind of like a modern RPG and like, you know, you had an ATM where your money would go and you would call your dad to save your game. And it was just weird and it was this kind of Japanese interpretation of like what like, or comma looked like, but there was so weird shit. [00:24:17] Like you, you get this girl Paulo who joins your team and you say her parents run a daycare center, which is then taken over by a cult. And so you have to like free the town and like the daycare center from this cult. And then there was like a blues band that keeps getting in it with the mob of some sort for money who you have to like pay off them. [00:24:41] And there’s just all this weird shit. There’s aliens. It’s a weird game, but it’s a great game. And now it’s widely considered like, Greatest game of all time, but I was genuinely like played it like the summer. It came out. Like I bought it. It did not sell well when it came out. Um, but his [00:25:00] episode and earthbound, it’s like a, it’s like a 40 minute episode is just really fantastic. [00:25:04] And it’s one of those things where even he has to be like, dammit, you know, this is so good. You know, this is such a good game or whatever. But, yeah, he’s one of my favorites, I guess if I had to think, but he doesn’t make videos that often. Um, so that’s, but that’s, that’s one of my favorite channels, but I watch a lot of crap. [00:25:22] Like I watch a lot of like YouTube drama and, and stuff like that, which, um, [00:25:27] Brett: [00:25:27] I didn’t know. That was a thing. [00:25:29] Christina: [00:25:29] Oh, it’s a [00:25:29] Brett: [00:25:29] Apparently. Apparently my YouTube stuck on historical documentaries, but. [00:25:33] Christina: [00:25:33] See, this is what’s so great about YouTube. Is that both the good and the bad thing is that the algorithm will determine what sort of content you want to watch. [00:25:41] Brett: [00:25:41] so, so I, I, I can generally trust the recommendations because they pretty much pull from channels I’ve actually subscribed to. So this one came up about. Early humans. And I thought, Oh, I haven’t seen this one yet. And I started it and it opens up with [00:26:00] the mainstream. Researchers don’t want you to know this. And it was it, the whole thing was about like alien, like ancient aliens kind of stuff. And I didn’t make it very far into it because they kept talking about mainstream science. Like it was the devil and, and I gave up on it. But somehow that made it through the algorithm, I guess it was just related enough. [00:26:27] Christina: [00:26:27] Oh, yeah, no, there’s, there’s been a whole thing, um, about like how the algorithm can sort of radicalize people and, and it, so actually I’m going to put this in our, in our notes, but, uh, my friend, Kevin, um, and I, I used to work with him. He’s fantastic at, uh, he’s now with the New York times, uh, he wrote this amazing story last year called, um, the making of a YouTube radicle, where he basically was able to, um, Go through the YouTube history of people who’ve become radicalized and like alt-right [00:27:00] or whatever, because of YouTube and going through like what videos they’ve watched and what their history has been in. [00:27:04] You could just kind of try to like reverse engineer, how the algorithm worked to take them from kind of, you know, standard sorts of topics into getting them into more and more radicalized fare. And. It’s it’s a really fascinating, um, story. And, and I do think that like the algorithm is in general really good, but it does have those offshoots, which are not unproblematic and have been criticized. [00:27:33] Rightly so. The, the, the, um, the way that the New York times, um, Story was done. Like, just like from a graphics perspective is really, really fascinating because it’ll take you through kind of like the timeline of everything he watched and you can kind of see like the, like visually the way that it, it brings up the content he’s watched is just actually really incredible. [00:27:56] Like the tech that the, the design and the tech that they did for that [00:28:00] is. Some of their best it’s it’s like, not as good as snowfall, but it’s like snowfall asks like, as that same sort of visual design cue and snowfall for our listeners who might not be aware is this very famous New York times story where they created this visual. [00:28:18] Addition to the tax that it brought you completely into what happened in this story. And it was kind of a breakthrough in terms of visual journalism and web design, and then everything, every single, you know, like, uh, you know, web publisher wanted to have their own snowfall moments. And, uh, you, you fight, you saw, you know, newspapers and magazines. [00:28:38] Hiring lots of data journalists and, and JavaScript in front end people to try to bring those sorts of things to the stories because when you do it right, it’s actually really incredible. But, [00:28:49] Brett: [00:28:49] Cool. Yeah. Put, put some links in for me. [00:28:53] Christina: [00:28:53] Yeah, you got it. Um, yeah. It’s, it’s good. Um, but [00:29:00] yeah, so. So you’re watching YouTube and finding your historical stuff. [00:29:04] Usually not being radicalized, but occasionally being led [00:29:07] Brett: [00:29:07] Occasionally it just slips through. [00:29:09] Christina: [00:29:09] Yup. W and here’s the problem. I love the subculture bullshit so much, and I love the crazy shit on YouTube and in general. And then that will become what YouTube recommends me to watch for the next few weeks. I’ve been watching a bunch of like, Tech content recently, like a bunch of people who do like PC over clock specs or Mac, you know, builds or things like that. [00:29:32] And so that’s taken up my recommendations, but there are times when it will be like the flat earthers and like the worst types of people, just because I’ve been like obsessed with that stuff. Not because I believe it, but then that light just ruins my algorithm for X period of time. [00:29:50] Brett: [00:29:50] I get, [00:29:51] Christina: [00:29:51] I don’t want to see this. [00:29:52] Brett: [00:29:52] I get the videos debunking the flat earth videos, which I feel is just a waste of YouTube time. Like why, [00:30:00] why who’s paying enough attention to this shit. That we need to scientifically debunk the idea that the earth is flat. Anyway, you know, who showed up in my recommendations this week was a theme park boy who I’m sure has a name. [00:30:14] I’m positive. He has a name. I do not know it, but he showed up to talk about all the news coverage that he received for his theme park video. And he went, I didn’t watch the whole thing. He went for like half an hour. But he, he read what was clearly a foreign language article, poorly translated out loud and then took, took a lot of issue with, um, I will say the semantics of this clearly translated article. [00:30:46] It was entertaining just to watch him get flustered. [00:30:49] Christina: [00:30:49] Oh, you poor ASPE, wonderful tea. You pour you pour beautiful. Like Aspy Swifty. I’m [00:30:56] Brett: [00:30:56] Oh, my God. Do you, do you know the history of Asperger’s [00:31:00] like why it’s called Asperger’s [00:31:01] Christina: [00:31:01] I have no clue. [00:31:02] Brett: [00:31:02] it’s um, it was this Nazi sympathizer doctor who came up with ways to determine whether or not children were worth keeping alive. [00:31:15] Christina: [00:31:15] Holy [00:31:16] Brett: [00:31:16] Yeah, no, it is sorted. It is a very sort of history and it’s part of the reason they don’t diagnose Asperger’s anymore. [00:31:23] That it’s just part of the spectrum now, but just FYI, like there is some seriously sick shit behind that doctor. Like he wasn’t an out and out Nazi, but he worked with the third. Right? [00:31:37] Christina: [00:31:37] Uh, no then he was not no Nazi. Sorry. That’s uh, I, I’m sorry. That’s how that, that’s how that works. Like, uh, and I feel okay. Well, I take that back, cause that was a slur that I genuinely [00:31:48] Brett: [00:31:48] it’s not, it’s not a slur so much as it is a reference to a history that got seriously whitewashed or some color washed. [00:31:57] Christina: [00:31:57] Well, no, here’s the thing. It is a slur that we [00:32:00] don’t know that it’s a slur, but it is. And that finds its way into the way we use language now, because I wasn’t saying it as a slur in that sense, but I was admittedly like kind of joking in, in a. Not completely kind way. I didn’t mean anything. I didn’t mean anything mean by it because I genuinely loved this kid. [00:32:19] Like I love him and I love like what he did. And, and I love that you watched his video like three times and how much you thought about it. And like, I genuinely like, love his passion. Um, you know, I’m just like poking fun, you know, the same way you would poke fun. I would [00:32:35] Brett: [00:32:35] no, I was, I wasn’t judging you. I’m sorry. If it came [00:32:38] Christina: [00:32:38] no, [00:32:38] Brett: [00:32:38] way, I got [00:32:39] Christina: [00:32:39] weren’t. No, no, no, no, you weren’t because, but, but I’m judging myself. Like, that’s the thing I’m like, I, I know that I was like, teasing him with love, but for somebody who’s new and listening to this podcast who doesn’t know me and doesn’t know that, like now I’m like, shit there, dude. [00:32:56] I’m never, I’m never gonna use like ASPE as [00:33:00] any sort of pejorative ever again because Holy, Oh my [00:33:04] Brett: [00:33:04] I was reading an article written by, uh, an autism advocate, someone who actually has autism. And she was actually the one who kind of laid all this out historically. And she said that she would miss the. The, the, uh, kind of what you said, almost a loving term, like they would refer to themselves as Aspy is, and she was going to, she was going to miss that term of endearment, but couldn’t use it anymore because of, of what it represented. So you’re not wrong. It was even among, even among the autistic, it was considered a term of endearment for most people. [00:33:47]Christina: [00:33:47] a total tangental thing, because I guess this is the weird, well, this is our podcast, but, uh, [00:33:53] Brett: [00:33:53] what are we doing? [00:33:55] Christina: [00:33:55] I was just going to say, speaking of like weird, like Holocaust things, people [00:34:00] might not know about IBM. IBM was heavily involved in the Holocaust. [00:34:05] Brett: [00:34:05] How so. [00:34:07] Christina: [00:34:07] They created the sorting machines and the, uh, like the, the, like the, the machines that would basically figure out, um, the census and we’re what, what, um, religion and, and, and, you know, classification people were and where they were located. [00:34:22] Brett: [00:34:22] Do you have sources for this? [00:34:24] Christina: [00:34:24] Yes, I do. [00:34:25] Brett: [00:34:25] This isn’t some radicalized YouTube video. Is [00:34:27] Christina: [00:34:27] It is, it is absolutely not. It is absolutely not. In fact, uh, the, the, there were people who were like heavily involved in like working at IBM, um, uh, Europe who were. Flat-out Nazis and people who were very closely associated with IBM corporation in New York who knew about this, and it took them until the late thirties to get rid of their association. [00:34:52] And there’s a great book that came out 15, 16 years ago called IBM and the Holocaust that’s incredibly [00:35:00] well-researched. Um, IBM has had to actually publicly. Uh, they haven’t toned, frankly, the way they should, but they have had to publicly admit and accept their involvement. In, um, the punch card system. [00:35:14] Yeah, I know this is, this is not like in any way conspiracy thing, this is something that is, it is fucked up beyond belief. And how it started was that this guy went to the Holocaust museum in Washington, DC and saw one of these IBM punch card machines on display. He saw the logo and he was just kind of struck. [00:35:32] And he was like, What the hell, what is this? And went into to the history. And it is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly disturbing, uh, that one of the biggest and most important companies in American history and world history was like, Um, I think because for such a long time, this is less true now, but for such a long time, IBM, even when it was a faltered, giant was still such a giant. [00:35:59] I mean, you [00:36:00] have to think they employ 250,000 people. Like, it’s not like it’s a big company and it’s, and it’s, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s big business. It, you know, as defined a lot of things, uh, I think that it’s. One of those things. A lot of people probably it’s a third rail. A lot of people don’t want to touch and get into that stuff. [00:36:17] I mean, it’s a similar thing. People don’t like to talk about like Henry Ford and Walt, Walt Disney’s antisemitism, [00:36:22] Brett: [00:36:22] Well, [00:36:23] Christina: [00:36:23] you know, like, [00:36:24] Brett: [00:36:24] I feel like now, now that America is full of Nazis again. I feel like now is the time for companies to really own that kind of history. [00:36:34] Christina: [00:36:34] I agree. And they have, it came up sort of in the context of the last time it kind of came up, I guess, was, was wind some of the, the various tech companies, um, including the company I work for. Um, you know, we’re. Uh, found to have agreements with, with ice and, and, you know, department of Homeland security and things like that. [00:36:54] And, and it did come up again, I guess, more recently in that context, but it is interesting [00:37:00] that it hasn’t ever really been. Like this disgust thing. And, and I think that was the context where IBM finally has had to, you know, admit their culpability and some of this, but for a long time, they did try to deny it. [00:37:12] And they did try to say, this is not a thing. Um, but, uh, it is actually a thing. And, um, it is part of their history and it is, you know, a big part of it. I think how IBM America has tried to. Get rid of some of the culpability is that they were like, Oh, well this was, this was IBM GRM. You know, this, this was the, um, this was the German part of, of, of, of IBM or the other European subsidiaries. [00:37:41] But the, the book, um, makes very good arguments, um, that the people in the United States at the corporate offices were aware and that. High up executives knew and were sympathetic to what was happening there. [00:38:00] Um, so yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s an interesting thing for people to, to look into for sure. Uh, but, uh, yeah, that I read that I actually, I didn’t even read the book. [00:38:11] I listened to the audio book in God. I don’t know. Um, 2004, um, it was one of the first audible books that I ever got, and that’s why I remember this. And. It completely kind of blew my mind and changed my perspective. And, and, but I did, even then I had this thing, I was like, okay, but is this conspiracy theory bullshit? [00:38:30] Like, is this actually true? And when I started looking into it, I was like, these sources seem to check out this. Doesn’t like, the guy is obviously ferry. Very like fervent and strong-willed and I would not disagree if people said, okay, maybe he takes it slightly further than what it actually was. Like. I think that that could be a fair assessment, but the general thesis and the general, like facts are [00:39:00] not in dispute even at this point by IBM. [00:39:03]Brett: [00:39:03] Alright. So speaking of the previous topic, [00:39:07] Christina: [00:39:07] Yeah. [00:39:08] Brett: [00:39:08] here’s another topic that’s completely unrelated. [00:39:11] Christina: [00:39:11] Okay, great. I love our segways. [00:39:13] Brett: [00:39:13] I know, and this is, this is again, probably the worst segue you could have for a sponsor, [00:39:18]Christina: [00:39:18] Oh my God. [00:39:19] Brett: [00:39:19] timing wise, it’s, it’s, it’s just it’s time. But, I mean, I’m sure if I were a fast enough thinker, I would find a way to, to make this anyway. [00:39:30] Christina: [00:39:30] no, I [00:39:31] Brett: [00:39:31] I’ll justify [00:39:32] Christina: [00:39:32] know this I’ll justify it this way. Um, if you are trying to, uh, escape, um, a freshen by your nation state, [00:39:41]Brett: [00:39:41] this is, this is how you do it because today we’re brought to you by express VPN. And the copy they sent me is, is pretty it’s it’s amusing. So I’m going to you, I’m going to stick to it pretty closely here. When you use the bathroom, let’s say you’re at a coffee house and you go to the [00:40:00] bathroom, you close the door behind you, right? [00:40:02] I mean, I’m making some assumptions, but you don’t want random. Passerbuys looking in on you, [00:40:08] Christina: [00:40:08] Usually not. [00:40:09] Brett: [00:40:09] again, I’m making some assumptions, but. [00:40:12] Christina: [00:40:12] on how drunk I am, but usually [00:40:14] Brett: [00:40:14] Right. Well, and it depends. And what you’re into, I mean, no kink shaming. [00:40:18] Christina: [00:40:18] Absolutely not. [00:40:19] Brett: [00:40:19] You do, you have a certain responsibility not to expose yourself to people who aren’t also into that. [00:40:26] Um, so please be responsible, but making those assumptions, you also wouldn’t want people looking in on you when you go online [00:40:35] Christina: [00:40:35] God. No. [00:40:36] Brett: [00:40:36] and using, using the internet without express VPN is like going to the bathroom and not closing the door. So you probably know that with whatever internet service provider use, like Comcast or spectrum, they can see every single website that you visit. And what’s worse is that a lot of them have, I’ve been tied to selling that information to ad companies and [00:41:00] tech giants who use that data to target you. [00:41:03] Express VPN puts a stop to this by creating a secure encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet, so that your online activity can’t be seen by anyone. All they can see is that you connected to the VPN. And from there you are secure. Um, I use express VPN on all of my devices now, uh, from my phone to my router and everything in between. [00:41:25] And, uh, it’s super easy. You just fire up the app, click one button and you’re protected on any device. Uh, express VPN is a world’s number one rated VPN by CNET wired the verge and countless others. So. If you’re like me and believe that your online activity is your business. Secure yourself by visiting express vpn.com/overtired. [00:41:49] Today. Use my exclusive link E X P R E S S V P n.com/overtired. And you can get an extra three months for free that’s [00:42:00] express, vpn.com/overtired. And thanks to express VPN for supporting the show. [00:42:05]Christina: [00:42:05] Yeah. I also genuinely am a pain user of express DPN, even aside from their sponsorship of our podcast, which we greatly appreciate. And it is it’s the good shit. And I mean, look, it’s bad enough that knows your whole watch history and can recommend crazy stuff to you, but you don’t also want like your ISP to sell your crazy YouTube watch history to ad companies. [00:42:29] You see it all over the internet, like, because no. [00:42:33] Brett: [00:42:33] Or if you’re in a situation where your boss might care, what your YouTube hits for, it looks like, [00:42:39] Christina: [00:42:39] Exactly. Exactly. Like just, just, yeah. [00:42:43] Brett: [00:42:43] or, or if you’re in a country with an oppressive regime as previously stated. [00:42:48] Christina: [00:42:48] Uh, exactly. Precisely. Even if you’re visiting a country with an oppressive regime, I, that is when I’m like I’m using a VPN just to be safe because I do not want to get arrested [00:43:00] for watching something that is. Going to anger people. [00:43:04] Brett: [00:43:04] Don’t countries like China ban the use of VPNs. [00:43:07] Christina: [00:43:07] They do however many, not many, a number of VPNs do actively work to play the cat and mouse game so that you can still use it. [00:43:17] Brett: [00:43:17] I’m sure. [00:43:18] Christina: [00:43:18] Yeah, so, but, but it, but it is like a cat and mouse game, but yeah, they do ban the use of VPNs. And in fact, um, Apple had, and Google, both had to remove all VPN apps from the app stores there, uh, because of the, the government basically being like, this is not allowed. [00:43:34] Um, obviously it is fairly trivial to then just get the app anyway. But yeah. [00:43:44]Brett: [00:43:44] You put something in the show notes that I, I think I’m curious about, I’m a little worried that I might not be curious about it. [00:43:52] Christina: [00:43:52] No, you’re going to love this. [00:43:54] Brett: [00:43:54] Okay. Tell, tell me about Hannah Montana Linux. [00:43:57]Christina: [00:43:57] Okay, this is amazing. Uh, I’m [00:44:00] not sure how old this is. I have a feeling that this is probably a decade old because the Hannah Montana show has been off the air for a really long time. Uh, but my good friend, Alex Cranz, uh, who is the, uh, senior reviews editor at Gizmodo. Shout out to Alex. She sent this in our group chat. [00:44:20] Uh, yesterday because, um, I’m in a group chat with her and our good friend, Katherine who works at the eff or the electronic frontier foundation. And the eff basically gives Katherine her choice. Like she can use Linux or she can use a Mac and they try to. You know, make everybody use like fully like FOS software, uh, which makes sense. [00:44:44] But that means poor Catherine has to use Thunderbird is her male client, which like that sucks. So, um, Kranz was like, I have the perfect Linux district for you. And she paced this Hannah Montana Lennox link. And [00:45:00] I’ve discovered that someone created a Linux distribution called Hannah Montana Linux. It is based on a coupon too. [00:45:10] And, um, it uses KTE 4.2 with a Hannah Montana theme. Um, it is fantastic. There are all kinds of, of wallpapers. Um, there. Are great screenshots. The person even created a song, I guess, apparently to the tune of one of the Hannah Montana songs with lyrics. And I’m going to put this link for you in our equip Bret. [00:45:36] So you can see it, but the lyrics, the song include things like, Oh yeah. Food up, you get the gooey out front hottest styles, every theme, every color. Yeah. When you’re not root, it can be kind of fun. As long as your password is never discovered. In some ways you’re just like all your friends, but on the internet, you’re a star, [00:46:00] I guess this is [00:46:01] Brett: [00:46:01] aside from you, who do you think the target audience for this is? [00:46:06]Christina: [00:46:06] Oh, so, I mean, I think that this was just a pure shit post, but it’s beautiful. [00:46:10] Brett: [00:46:10] That makes sense. That adds [00:46:12] Christina: [00:46:12] you’re lucky, if you read the, the, the, the FAC, it says, um, you know, how slash why did you make such a great OSTP? I thought, uh, I thought what would attract young users to Linux? So it created this idea after a lot of reading and work. [00:46:27]Brett: [00:46:27] Yeah. [00:46:27]Christina: [00:46:27] You know, I just, I, I think, you know, it was just, the whole thing is just, it’s really funny. Um, I, uh, I shared this on Twitter and, uh, a surprising number of people were like, yeah, this I I’m I’m into this. So again, I don’t know how old this is. The, the, the mercurial source database that it links to is no longer even active, which tells you how long this is. [00:46:51] How long ago this was. [00:46:53]Brett: [00:46:53] Version control. So it’s pretty, pretty ancient. [00:46:57] Christina: [00:46:57] Fair. Right. So, uh, again like, [00:47:00] I, this, this is old this, but, and, and people who are listening might be like, Oh, this was a meme years ago. Okay. Well, I was not aware and now I am, and I’m a huge fan. So [00:47:12] Brett: [00:47:12] I missed it. [00:47:13] Christina: [00:47:13] I did miss it. And I’m like, this is fantastic. Like, this is just really, really good. Uh, [00:47:18] Brett: [00:47:18] even have a printable Hannah Montana Lennox logo for the back of your PC. [00:47:23] Christina: [00:47:23] I mean, exactly. See, this is what I’m talking about. Like, this is, it’s just a thing of beauty and I just, this is the sort of shit that, you know what, like, I miss this, like we need this. [00:47:35] Brett: [00:47:35] There’s a sticker that says designed for Hannah Montana, Linux windows Vista, incapable. [00:47:41]Christina: [00:47:41] Oh, Oh God, this is so good. Um, I see, this is the shit that like, we need more of in this world and copyrights and, and other stuff be damned. Cause I’m sure that this was breaking all kinds of copyright things. I would suggest that we come up with like an overtired Linux distro [00:48:00] that is Taylor Swift themes. [00:48:01] Um, but I don’t want her to Sue us. Uh, I mean, although that I’m not going to lie, that would also be. A badge of honor to be sued by Taylor Swift or to have even a lawsuit threatened by Taylor Swift. But [00:48:14] Brett: [00:48:14] We did get a cease and desist, just kidding. But that would be a badge of honor. I wish I wish we had got, I would, I would wear proudly a badge that said I got a cease and desist from Taylor Swift. [00:48:28] Christina: [00:48:28] Oh my [00:48:28] Brett: [00:48:28] We shouldn’t make those anyway and just lie about it. [00:48:32] Christina: [00:48:32] Oh, my God. That’s actually a really good idea. We should, we should be doing merge. This is what all the YouTubers do is they have merge. And so we should [00:48:39] Brett: [00:48:39] Merchant a Patriot. That’s what we need. Yeah. [00:48:42] Christina: [00:48:42] Yeah. Listeners let us know. Would you be interested in some overtired merge that said things like I got a cease and desist from Taylor Swift, like let us know. [00:48:50]Brett: [00:48:50] Yeah. Okay. So I got a stream deck. [00:48:54] Christina: [00:48:54] okay. [00:48:55] Brett: [00:48:55] Are you familiar with the stream deck? [00:48:57] Christina: [00:48:57] Oh, I’m very familiar. I love mine. Tell me about yours. [00:49:00] [00:49:00] Brett: [00:49:00] I got it. As part of a job. I have a client who wants what I’m. Pretty sure are going to be impossible things for it to do. Um, that involve like scripting web pages, which is a fragile and delicate thing to even attempt. But I went ahead and just to explore it, I set up a, uh, a podcast folder for OK. For anyone who doesn’t know it’s a, you can get them in different sizes. [00:49:30] Mine is a mini, it only has six buttons, but each of the buttons. In the grid is like an old led, uh, display and you can put any icons on it, pictures, colors, um, and they can change. So you can create folders, uh, and sub folders full of different cons. And then you can have them do. Like most of mine trigger hot keys and launch [00:50:00] applications, but there’s a whole library of actions you can assign to these, uh, these buttons. [00:50:06] So I have one that pops up NV ultra for and Quip for taking notes during a podcast, a button that starts a macro that launches my, um, session recording in audio hijack and starts a timer. And then a button to pause the recording and the timer, and then another button that inserts the timestamp in the notes for however long I’ve been recording. [00:50:33] And that’s kind of my little podcast folder on this thing. And I, I am, I’ve had a lot input devices with a lot of buttons. I really like this kind of visual, uh, not having to memorize key pads full of buttons. I like, I like the picture turns out. [00:50:51] Christina: [00:50:51] Yeah, no, and it’s, it’s, it’s really like sensible. There’s a lot of stuff that you can do with it. Uh, the most popular app that people use with it is, is [00:51:00] probably like OBS or the open broadcasting system, which you can get really granular with. And that’s what I, that’s how I discovered this and, and how I use mine. [00:51:09] But you can use it with all kinds of things. And, uh, no, it’s, it’s really, really awesome. I will also say for anybody out there, if, cause it’s, it’s like a hundred dollars, I think for the mini and I think the regular ones, like 150, and I don’t know how much the XL is, which is the really big one. But, um, if you want to try out a stream deck and you don’t know if you want to pay for the hardware or not, El Gato actually makes an iOS app that will let you basically do the exact same thing. [00:51:37] It’s like 30 bucks. [00:51:38] Brett: [00:51:38] Stream deck mobile. [00:51:39] Christina: [00:51:39] Yeah, and it’s actually really good. And it interacts with the companion app on your macro PCB exact same way. So that is an alternative and it has like a three day free trial or seven days free trial or whatever. So you can actually try that out if you are wanting to, you know, like figure out like, do I actually want to invest [00:52:00] in hardware like this or not? [00:52:01] Um I’m um, but yeah, I’m, I’m a really, really big fan. And I’m actually really excited that you have one now. Cause I it’s funny, I’ve often thought of you when I’ve used it. I’m [00:52:09] Brett: [00:52:09] People always ask me, people are like, so what do you think of stream deck? And I’m like, I don’t know. I’ve never tried one. Now I have, now I can tell everyone [00:52:18] Christina: [00:52:18] Yeah. But I’m also looking forward to you, like figuring out ways to script macros and do other really interesting things with it. [00:52:24] Brett: [00:52:24] I’ve been doing a lot of work with keyboard Maestro, and then just using it to trigger keyboard, Maestro macros, which is, I guess, cause I’m. Most comfortable scripting in that way, but yeah, I’m sure I’ll dig deeper into it. [00:52:38]Christina: [00:52:38] Yeah. Yeah, no, it’s cool. El Gato. Um, I mean, you’re probably one of the only people who remembers this, but like, remember when they were like a Mac company. [00:52:45] Brett: [00:52:45] Yeah. [00:52:46] Christina: [00:52:46] Yeah. Um, they, of course, Sarah bought them a couple of years ago and they have full on pivoted, straight into the gaming space. And, um, it’s a, it’s been kind of cool to see, but also a little weird because [00:53:00] yeah. [00:53:00] Brett: [00:53:00] I used to have one of those little, uh, H two 64 dongles that took a MPEG compression processing off of your CPU. [00:53:12] Christina: [00:53:12] Yup. Yeah, and I used to have one other ITVS [00:53:15] Brett: [00:53:15] Oh my God. I have that. I still have that it’s out in a box of things that I it’s too late for me to sell them on like Facebook marketplace. But I know if I hold onto it for another 10 years, so they might be classic hardware. [00:53:29]I have one almost new inbox right next to the original Apple TV that I have in that box, [00:53:36] Christina: [00:53:36] that’s awesome. [00:53:37] Brett: [00:53:37] which is right next to the original time machine. Anyway. [00:53:40] Christina: [00:53:40] Yeah. So it was funny during quarantine, I wound up like basically buying almost everything that all Gato makes. Um, I bought one of their green screens, um, and I got [00:53:50] Brett: [00:53:50] you get a key light? [00:53:52] Christina: [00:53:52] I did, I got two of the key light airs and I liked them a [00:53:54] Brett: [00:53:54] I really I’ve been curious about those. [00:53:57] Christina: [00:53:57] They’re really good. Um, you know, [00:54:00] again, you can control it with software either on mobile or, um, you know, on your PC, but also just flat out, you know, the main, you know, Huge brightness is good. [00:54:09] I wanted to get the regular key light, but I got the key light air because that was all that was in stock. Um, I also got their multi mounts, which is kind of like there it’s like 60 bucks once you get all the parts together, but it basically is this thing that you can either clamp it to a desk. It also hasn’t had a heavy base and you can attach basically anything that has, uh, you know, the size of like what would be. [00:54:35] Like a normal sort of, um, I guess, what am I like the tripod type of mounts sort of thing on it. And so you can Mount, you know, your phone, you can Mount CA cameras, you can Mount, you know, certain types of lights, systems, other stuff, it holds a decent amount of weight and it’s really flexible. I can move around and, um, I like that. [00:54:55] I got their green screen. The one that I got, uh, I have it mounted on my [00:55:00] wall. So it’s, it’s not, uh, the one that like you pull up, like it’s when you pull down, but that’s good. I got two of the key, light EHRs. I got the, uh, cam link 4k, which will let you use your DSLR as a webcam. But I also got, because that was sold out when I first tried to buy it and then like an hour or two later, I was able to actually get it. [00:55:20] But they have this capture device, the HD 60 S plus, and you need the plus it’s only at best buy that is technically like a video game pass through kind of streaming system. So you can connect to like your, your switch, your Xbox or PS4 or whatever, and record content from it. But the S plus version, not the S the S plus version has the same, um, Shipping it so that you can use it with a webcam on a Mac and it will, um, work, um, with, with a Mac to be seen as like just a, a normal, um, you know, um, webcam sort of thing. [00:55:56] So, so if you can’t find the cam link, uh, for anybody out [00:56:00] there, um, the HD 60 S plus might be more available. It’s like $30 more, but it’s, it’s fine. Um, [00:56:07]Brett: [00:56:07] S [00:56:08] Christina: [00:56:08] Cause people, people are selling these things for like ridiculous sums of money because of everybody now having to work [00:56:13] Brett: [00:56:13] and you can not find webcams anywhere anymore. [00:56:16] Christina: [00:56:16] no, you can’t. I mean, that’s the thing. [00:56:17] Yeah. [00:56:18] Brett: [00:56:18] have you seen cammo from re incubate studios? [00:56:22] Christina: [00:56:22] I have not. [00:56:23] Brett: [00:56:23] it is an app that turns your iPhone into a webcam. Meaning you get all the quality of your iPhone camera as a webcam. And it is pretty slick. There’s a free version. Uh, the, it just lacks some of the finer controls, but you can use the front facing camera or the rear camera and the pro version cost $40. [00:56:48] You buy it for your Mac and then get the companion app for your phone. And you just plug it in over USB and use, uh, like instead of having the whole DSLR with [00:57:00] the, the interfaces and everything, you can just use your iPhone camera, [00:57:04] Christina: [00:57:04] See, that’s awesome. And that’s, that’s really good. And that’s better for a lot of people because you already have an [00:57:09] Brett: [00:57:09] right? Exactly. Better for me. Cause I’m not going to drop a thousand dollars on looking good on a zoom call. [00:57:17] Christina: [00:57:17] which is what I did, which was stupid. But I was like, I’m going to do it. I’m going to do it right. What actually made me mad [00:57:21] Brett: [00:57:21] Yeah, but you’re, you’re young and beautiful. You have to look good. Me I’m bald and old. No one cares how I look. It’s a pure vanity on my part. [00:57:29]Christina: [00:57:29] Yeah. I mean, this is true. Like, I do need to look a certain way when I’m doing like certain types of recordings, but that said I still spent more than I needed to. Um, so I had a Sony RX, 100 Mark , which does 4k and is a tiny camera, but it’s a very good camera. And was. Like $900, 900 or a thousand dollars when I bought it and still is selling new, I think for, you know, $700 or so, uh, that camera overheats, if you [00:58:00] were trying to use it as a webcam, which I found, I couldn’t use it for more than five minutes, which. [00:58:05] Which was a real problem. And, uh, the five day was supposed to get rid of that like overheating problem. It did not on mine. And I was pretty frustrated with that. And so I had to get a Sony. Okay. 6,400. Um, I didn’t have to, I could’ve gotten a non Fourcade camera. I could’ve spent a lot less money, but I, I went into this place where I was so frustrated by this. [00:58:27] I was like, if I’m going to be spending this much, what’s another a hundred dollars. And then that became was another $200. And, you know, before, you know, you’re spending a thousand dollars on all this shit. Uh, but in my defense, I mean, it’s a complete business right off like 100%, uh, like not even a question because I am not using this for anything, but, but work and, uh, you know, Microsoft build, which was our big developer conference was coming up. [00:58:56] And although when I was hosting. [00:59:00] Most of the hosting stuff I did was from, uh, the studio where they, uh, the studios have been some of the, have been deemed essential and they had, you know, like incredibly like. Safe and well set up, you know, like social distancing and masks and cleanliness, and like really just did a stellar job. [00:59:17] Um, you know, I came in and shot for those things, but a couple of the things that I did, I was recording remotely from my house. And you know, this is our big developer conference. Like this is, you know, like our coven of WWDC. So you don’t want to use your iMac seven 20 P. Webcam for that, you know? And, and I didn’t have something like chemo. [00:59:39] Um, so I might have been aware of it. I think it’s gotten better, but there have been some issues historically, I think with some of those apps working with things like ops or teams or zoom or whatever, but I think in the last few months that’s been worked out. [00:59:55] Brett: [00:59:55] Specifically say it works with teams and with, um, [01:00:00] Skype and zoom. [01:00:02] Christina: [01:00:02] That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah. So on Mac, there’s been this issue and they fixed it. Um, thanks to the open source people, but there has been this issue. There’s this weird thing about however webcams work in NACO S there’s like a certain type of driver that you have to have. And I’ll Gado actually ran into that and yeah. [01:00:18] Was wide the, the, um, cam link 4k and the HD 60 S plus are different than some of their other interfaces. On a Mac, like on a, on windows, it’ll work just fine. Um, if you want to use one of the older interfaces for web cam capture, but there is a weird sort of driver thing that you need for macro West to be used as, um, uh, a webcam input and not everything had it, but, um, OBS was having some major issues on Mac with, uh, Skypes, um, NDI interface and. [01:00:53] The wonderful people there, they did. Somebody figured it out and made it work, which like saved so many people’s [01:01:00] lives. Um, have you played with OBS at all, [01:01:03] Brett: [01:01:03] I have not, [01:01:04] Christina: [01:01:04] um, [01:01:04] Brett: [01:01:04] actually planning to check it out after this because I didn’t even realize it was a thing. [01:01:09] Christina: [01:01:09] Yeah, it’s fantastic. Uh, it is. And what’s great about it is that it is, it is open source. I actually contribute to the Patrion of, um, like the main developers, because they get some money from companies who use their stuff to sell commercial products, but frankly, not as much as they deserve and. The, the windows port is definitely better. [01:01:29] The windows Linux is definitely better than that go West, but there are some people who are doing like legit great work, um, on the, on the back of West version. And it is, it’s pretty awesome. It basically lets you create a TriCaster if you’re familiar with that, uh, on your, like with software. Um, and, and it is yeah, in a lot of ways, like if you look at something like Wirecast pro, which is great, but is. [01:01:53] Over a thousand dollars and out of, you know, reach for a lot of people, certainly out of my reach, [01:02:00] um, OBS is, uh, in, in many cases, um, just as good works really well with the stream deck. Um, It’s primarily, obviously for video stuff, but you could use it for other sorts of recordings too. It’s really cool. Um, you’re, you’re, you’re gonna, you’re gonna dig OBS and the, I have to say again, like I give to their, the Patrion because, um, like lots of tech and some other companies have basically commercial products that they. [01:02:30] Have forked and use a lot of their stuff, which is totally fine. That’s what open source is about. But, um, for things like the NDI drivers, a lot of the max support and things like that, like this is all coming from people who are doing this on not a lot of money, especially compared to what they could be paid. [01:02:46] If they were like full time developers, you know, at big software companies, [01:02:51]Brett: [01:02:51] I will check it out. Can you have things we’re supposed to check out? Did you watch how to build a girl? [01:02:56] Christina: [01:02:56] I did. I did. [01:02:57] Brett: [01:02:57] also watched reality bites [01:03:00] despite somebody not remembering to invite me to their Plex [01:03:03] Christina: [01:03:03] No, I know this is my problem because grant controls the Plex controls. And I’m sorry. I, [01:03:08] Brett: [01:03:08] Damn you grant. [01:03:09] Christina: [01:03:09] I know. I’m sorry. [01:03:10] Brett: [01:03:10] Tell him he’s been telling me he’s been publicly shamed to thousands of listeners. Um, I, uh, I, uh, I think we should save our discussion of those for next week though. [01:03:23] Christina: [01:03:23] I think so. I think so. Yeah. [01:03:25] Brett: [01:03:25] And not just because I have super short attention span cause I’m unmedicated right now, but also because we’re at an hour and you know, you know, I like to keep things tight 60. [01:03:37]Christina: [01:03:37] This is not the talk show, right? [01:03:40] Brett: [01:03:40] Right, right. We have, we have limits. have standards. [01:03:45]Christina: [01:03:45] Episode that I did with, with grouper, um, uh, a couple months ago it was like two and a half hours. [01:03:50] Brett: [01:03:50] Yeah. I can’t, I can’t talk to anyone for that long Yeah. Anyhow. It has been great catching up with you after, after my week of, [01:04:00] of obscene boredom. It’s it’s nice to hear an excited voice. [01:04:06] Christina: [01:04:06] It’s nice to talk to you and I’m super sorry that, um, you have not had your meds, but I’m like crossing my fingers that that will get resolved. [01:04:14] Brett: [01:04:14] At least my doctor didn’t quit. [01:04:16] Christina: [01:04:16] Yeah. It’s yeah, that had to be like the worst. I would have that sort of panic. [01:04:22] Brett: [01:04:22] Yeah. It was [01:04:23] Christina: [01:04:23] That that’s the sort of like thing that I would freak out about. So. [01:04:27] Brett: [01:04:27] Me too. [01:04:28] Christina: [01:04:28] See, here’s what you need to do though. You need to get ELL diagnosed with ADHD, even if she doesn’t have it just so you can have backup beds. [01:04:36]Brett: [01:04:36] Oh yeah. Cause that couldn’t possibly go wrong. I would get busted for that is what I’m saying. Alright, well, um, Our homework for this week then is just to, uh, to remember everything we have to say about these movies. [01:04:52]Christina: [01:04:52] Okay. What I’m going to do is I’m going to rewatch both of them and take notes. [01:04:56]Brett: [01:04:56] I took mental notes on reality bites. I [01:05:00] didn’t take actual notes, I, I I’ve I’ve I have a solid foundation to air some complaints. Cause that’s my, that’s my role in this. I’m the guy who complains, [01:05:10] Christina: [01:05:10] It is. And, and I want to hear, I want to hear your grievances on a reality bites. Um, for sure. I think that we do need to air grievances of a now 26 year old movie. [01:05:22] Brett: [01:05:22] That actually held up. It held up surprisingly well, but we’ll get to that. [01:05:25] Christina: [01:05:25] We will get to that. We will get to that again. We’re not going to go into now, but I do think that Ben Stiller to service more credit than he gets for his life as a film director, that’s all I’m going to say. [01:05:36]Brett: [01:05:36] Right. Well, get some sleep, Christina. [01:05:40] Christina: [01:05:40] get some sleep, right.

Brett works to overcome his Gen-X-ness as he and Christina discuss a Taylor Swift theme park, technical woes, and some classic movies. Show Links I designed a Taylor Swift Theme Park Bring it On Heathers Reality Bites Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Christina and Brett-1 [00:00:00]Brett: [00:00:00] Welcome to episode two Oh three of over-tired with Brett Terpstra. That’s me and Christina Warren. How’s it going, Christina? [00:00:08]Christina: [00:00:08] Well, I’ve been having a, I’ve been having some tech issues for the last, like 36 hours. So that’s definitely keeping me up and frustrated at night, but, uh, other than that pretty good. How about you Brett? [00:00:22]Brett: [00:00:22] Well, I’ve been having my own tech issues, but only for the last like two hours. So we’ll have w w we’ll set aside a section of the show. Because we’re going to start with some Taylor Swift stuff that I, I have a surprising amount to say about it, but I don’t want it to be the whole show. [00:00:41]Christina: [00:00:41] Yeah, no, let’s start with this. Cause, cause I sent you this. So, so give, give, give people the, the, the backstory, cause I texted you this, I did not know what your response was going to be and I still don’t. So. [00:00:51] Brett: [00:00:51] Um, okay. So on Wednesday I got a text from Christina that just said must watch for the pod. And it was a link to [00:01:00] a YouTube video titled I designed a Taylor Swift theme park with 60 plus attractions and it was a half hour long video. And I grown, I believe my response was good Lord. And. I, uh, I put off watching it until today until the day we were going to record them, like, Oh shit, I gotta, I gotta do my homework and watch this video. [00:01:25] And it ended up being a, a very soul searching experience for me because like my first reaction was. This guy is insane. Um, the, there should be like medical and everything engine here. And then over the course of watching it two more times, I realized that I have this very gen X, like I’m not allowed to like anything it’s against the rules for me to be excited about anything. [00:01:57] It is uncool. To like things [00:02:00] and that’s my whole generation. That’s where, that’s how we approach all new things. And I realized I don’t love that. I, I don’t, I don’t want that to be my legacy. So I’m going to look at this. Let’s pretend this guy is my kid. Let’s pretend I have a kid who’s displaying this amount of creativity, this amount of passion about something. [00:02:21] There’s no way I wouldn’t love it. And so I kind of, I watched it again with the kind of the perspective of. This kid is like crazy creative, super going like his attention to detail on this is, is it’s frightening, but it’s, it’s impressive. And ultimately, I came out with a bunch of notes about my favorite parts of it. [00:02:41] So what did you think Christina? [00:02:45]Christina: [00:02:45] I’m a millennial who was, was told that everything, um, that I feel in do is ballad and that I should be special. Um, even though, uh, I I’ve been telling my shrink since I was 19 years old, that I wanted to write a book called [00:03:00] you are not special. Um, uh, you know, a love letter to my generation. Um, I, uh, I obviously didn’t, I didn’t grow up with that whole perspective of like, you have to hate everything. [00:03:11] In fact, I think that I’m not the same extent that gen Z, which this kid is, uh, but you know, we, we tend to like things and embrace things a lot. So my, my take was, I was just like, this is so creative. This is so insane. I was with you when I first, when I saw it on Twitter, I was like, Oh, I’m going to watch this. [00:03:29] And then I saw it was like 30 minutes and I was like, God damn. I love Taylor Swift. I love what this does, but this is 30 minutes. This is going to be a lot, so found time to do it. And then I was like, okay, I’m, I’m here for all of this. This is genius. And I just to, I want somebody to like, make it in like the Sims or rollercoaster tycoon or, you know, something like that. [00:03:51]Brett: [00:03:51] Okay. So. It starts out with a, well, he goes through the whole, the entrance to the park and everything, but one of the [00:04:00] first things he talks about yeah. Is, uh, the bad blood Swiss cycle. Like it’s a ride where you’re actually on the motorcycles from bad blood. And that immediately, that’s a good idea. [00:04:12] That is like certain, certain Taylor songs or certain Taylor video, I should say. We’re kind of made for adaptation into theme park rides. It gets way more abstract from there, but there were touches the stay, stay, stay. Hotel was great. Get these little Easter eggs. And, uh, he talked about, this is a thing I didn’t know existed, but Taylor’s inner circle. [00:04:36] This group of people that apparently have Oliver albums well in advance and all the B sides and everything, whatever. But he hid like a circle. There’s just, it’s just a circle in the [00:04:49] Christina: [00:04:49] Yeah. It’s just a circle for them. Yeah, [00:04:51] Brett: [00:04:51] that represents Taylor’s inner circle. Some of it was a bit on the nose, but, um, I had a question. [00:04:58] At one point, [00:05:00] he, he has an attraction that starts out with a live spelling bee where you learn that spelling is fun. What is that a reference to. [00:05:08] Christina: [00:05:08] So in the single me that came out in 2019 with Brandon Yuri. The fandom universally hated the song wasn’t that successful. There was initially an interstitial in the song where she was like, Hey, kids, spelling is fun. And, and, and then they go, you know, um, you know, uh, Uh, and then they of like spelling words out because you, you know, uh, cause you can’t spell awesome without me, you know? [00:05:36] Uh, and so that’s what, that’s our fun, stupid. What was funny is that she clearly heard the feedback from the fans who were very vocal about hating that or making fun of that interstitial because regular people don’t care. It was Stan, Twitter and tumbler. That was like just, you know, an honestly, not even like vocally hating on it so much, just like. [00:05:58] Like making memes and [00:06:00] making fun of it. Uh, she clearly saw that because when the album came out, the interstitial was removed from the song. Like that one line, Hey, kids spelling is fun, was actually removed from the song. So on the album, you can’t hear that anymore. So that’s [00:06:13] Brett: [00:06:13] Peer pressure. [00:06:14] Christina: [00:06:14] great. [00:06:15] No, totally. But also that was a bad song. I like Brandon URI a whole lot. Uh, and that was, I’ll never forget. I was in, I was, was I in Amsterdam or was I, uh, no, I was in Stockholm. I was in Stockholm when, which is perfect because, you know, I had like Stockholm syndrome, basically. I was in Stockholm when the song was released. [00:06:34] And honestly, my gut instinct was to be like, what is this? But because it’s Taylor, I had to be, I had to like find a way to convince myself that I was like into it and loved it and was super excited even though like in my deep heart of hearts, I was not feeling it. Um, I want to be liking much of the rest of the album when that came out, but that first song, man, that was, uh, that was a struggle. [00:07:00] [00:06:59] Uh, and so, uh, yeah, so that’s, that’s the spelling bee. [00:07:02] Brett: [00:07:02] Okay. Um, he had a lounge set aside for people who hadn’t met Taylor Swift, which there were certain areas of the park that he made sure to let us know. We’re going to have limited capacity like this, this section is for real thrill seekers. That’s why it has a limited capacity. And to me, when you’re planning out a very fantastical theme park planning in advance for like your, the lines and the waiting queues and everything that is that’s kind of genius, but he had a lounge that he didn’t put a capacity limit on. [00:07:36] That was for people who hadn’t met Taylor Swift, that seemed. Has Taylor Swift met a lot more people than I think. [00:07:43]Christina: [00:07:43] Well, she does historically, like maybe not as much anymore, but she does do that at least with her diehard fans where she meets them. And I’m like, I think that there was something she did one time where she did like, I don’t know, like 13 hours straight of a meet and greet. [00:08:00] And this was after she was already really famous where, you know, she was in Nashville and like sat someplace and took photos and met people for like 13 hours straight, which, um, you know what, even if you’re really. [00:08:13] Even if you’re not famous, that’s a lot, but if you’re really famous and even if it is partially just kind of a PR exercise, that’s impressive. Cause I honestly can’t imagine like just the emotional toll of having to be on for that long. Uh, she does meet people, uh, and she does these things that she’s done for the last few years. [00:08:31] Uh, she obviously didn’t do it with the latest album where she has these secret sessions, where she invites, you know, select bands to her houses where they’ll hear the album in advance. Um, I think what he was probably referring to is I’m guessing here, I don’t know, is that at least, especially with like the diehard Swifties and I’m not one of them. [00:08:52] I mean, I keep up with their antiques online because it’s interesting to me, but I’m clearly both too old and too like, uh, abused by the [00:09:00] whole thing to actually be part of it where they, they keep track of the same people that get to meet her more than once. And, um, there’s like, Oh, there there’s incredible amounts of, of axed and drama over that. [00:09:13] So she’s met a lot of people, but I think that this was probably more a reference to, you know, the fact that it seems like there are certain fans that she meets that have like four photos with her and Taylor nation, like her fan site people or whatever, who handle a lot of that. Like apparently there are supposed to be rules where, you know, you can’t have met Taylor. [00:09:34] You know, within the last, however many years, you know, to be able to get a meet and greet opportunity again. Um, but they don’t police that cause how could you police that? Right? So that the fans try to be like the police, like, well, no, she met her drain, you know, this era and dah, dah, dah. I know he has four photos with her and dah, dah, dah, dah. [00:09:52] And I’m like, dude, Taylor doesn’t know any of these people. Like she smiled and took a photo, honestly. She [00:10:00] took a photo and was like smiled. And honestly the fact that she had to go to court. Because when she did a meet and greet a radio, DJ grabbed her ass and then sued her when he was fired. And she had to like go through that whole thing. [00:10:13] I think that we should be happy that she meets and takes photos with anyone at all. Because like I tell you what if that happened to me? And I had hundreds of millions of dollars and I had to go to court because someone, some older dude like violated me and then had the nerve to Sue me when he was fired for his actions. [00:10:29] No way in hell I would ever do any sort of like. You know, public meet and greet ever again. [00:10:35]Brett: [00:10:35] Yeah, no, I [00:10:36] Christina: [00:10:36] that’s my own aside [00:10:38] Brett: [00:10:38] There’s some, you’ve just described a whole bunch of really entitled people. [00:10:43]Christina: [00:10:43] and teenagers. Yes. Which this guy I think is like 21. So, so I include him in this a little bit, but yeah. [00:10:51] Brett: [00:10:51] Um, so she, she goes through every album. Like every album has a, uh, a land there’s lover land and [00:11:00] in 1989 land. And, um, he eventually gets to, and he, he says at the beginning that he kind of had to like folklore came out after he had designed this park. So he had to. Uh, revamp the whole thing to fit folklore in a, which feels to me like he’s not planning for the future. [00:11:19] Cause clearly she’s putting out more albums, but, uh, the folklore river ride is the only place where it got a little bit literal, uh, for my taste. Uh, he had like a movie theater just so that you could see people exiting the side door based on one line of a song. And the piano player is specifically wearing Levi’s jeans again in reference to a single line. His reference for the lakes was a Lake and he a tight rope with mirror balls on it. [00:11:51] Like all of these very literal or literal interpretations of lines from songs, it was a little worrisome there. [00:11:58]Christina: [00:11:58] Yeah. See, I have a [00:12:00] feeling that this was, you know, what that felt like to me, it was like, okay, you’ve done this project. You’ve, you’re finished. This, this thing comes out of nowhere. And now you have to like, suddenly. Like, you know, pivot and, and you don’t have time. Like, you don’t have the emotional energy to go back and recreate and redesign things. [00:12:18] You just need to make it work. So you’re just like, literally I have a feeling, he was probably like had like, you know, rap genius up and was like going through the lyrics. And it was like, all right, what do I need for this? And just, you know, like it was literally, the project is due tomorrow and it’s 11:00 [00:12:34] Brett: [00:12:34] Well, and he had years to work on the rest of it. He clearly had been thinking about it for a long time, and now he’s got like a month to put together, uh, for folklore land. [00:12:45] Christina: [00:12:45] exactly. So I’m with you. I love that one. Not as best work. Uh, also I agree with you, like, he has not thought about expansion, like, you know, think like Walt Disney think like, uh, think like the, you know, the theme park, people think like, you know, um, the, the Roy’s [00:13:00] in succession, like you have to think about how you’re going to expand your theme park. [00:13:05] Um, And, uh, and at least at the very least have like areas that you could connect to other plots of land so that you can have the second half of Harry Potter world, or, you know, Disney, California adventure, or whatever the case may be, because yeah, she’s going to need her own Epcot at some point, she’s going to need her own, um, you know, like other, uh, you know, the, the, the, the Simpson’s world and universal studios, like she’s going to need her own, uh, additional areas because. [00:13:33] I mean, awesome. Awesome. Like, I feel like there could have been an entire dedicated experience just to cats, even though that was terrible. Like, I just feel like that was something that, that, that should have had a thing to like, honestly like the theater. Okay. Actually, that’s what he should have done the theater for folklore, a unit for that thing. [00:13:49] The thing is the theater. You you’re forced to watch cats. That’s what that is. That’s what that ride is. And that’s why it’s the most terrifying ride in the entire park is you have to sit and watch cats [00:14:00] and that’s it. [00:14:01] Brett: [00:14:01] He, uh, he had a, you need to calm down trailer park right next to the pop queen pageant with the meet and greet for all of the drag queen pop stars. Yeah, I w w okay. Tell me about Taylor and Katz. [00:14:17]Christina: [00:14:17] She loves them. [00:14:18] Brett: [00:14:18] D is this a common topic for her? [00:14:21] Christina: [00:14:21] Yes. [00:14:22] Brett: [00:14:22] Cause he had the state of grace performance palace with cat shows. Okay. [00:14:27] So the, the one that I think at first, I was like, that’s ridiculous and stupid. And then I caught myself and said, wait a second. This is actually kind of genius. Was this speak now snowplow attraction, where you drive a snowplow and your goal is to pile up snow in front of the church, still to delay the man. [00:14:53] The wedding so that Taylor can tell him how she really feels and, and he had it. So [00:15:00] there there’s only so many different tracks to snowplow can wait or take. And it always, it always has a happy ending, not for the guy, but for Taylor. And, but like this idea that it’s, you it’s interactive. Like you still, you get to make choices in this whole, uh, fantasy, winter Wonderland that he has inside this building. [00:15:21] No, it was not. [00:15:22]Christina: [00:15:22] Yeah. Yeah, no, I liked that. I liked that. I really did. Like, as you put it, it’s like, it’s not a happy ending for anybody, but Taylor, you know, uh, the poor girl who thinks that she’s gonna marry the guy, right? Like no one ever, no one ever thinks about bad girl in the, in this speak now song like. No, no one ever thinks about her at like, you know, just, I mean, which makes sense. [00:15:44] I mean, that, that’s the person that, uh, that we don’t want to think of as similar to, uh, to, to, to friends, which is one of Taylor’s favorite shows where, you know, when, when Rachel, um, W when Ross said, I take the Rachel, uh, at, in the wedding vows and everybody dies. [00:16:00] Uh, you know, nobody really thinks about the poor Emily. [00:16:02] Everybody’s just like, yeah, we didn’t like her. Just get her out of there. And that was me I’m with them. I’m like, yeah, screw Emily. But then you go back and you watch the show and you’re like, well, Ross really ruined her life. And, and like, it was just entertainment for removal. Like Ross really ruined her life. [00:16:17] Like, you know, she was going to like, yeah, anyway, [00:16:21] Brett: [00:16:21] Yeah, you gotta, you gotta know who you’re cheering for, ultimately. Um, so in short to summarize. This, uh, this very, uh, savant video, um, that I’m, I’m not diagnosing anything. Like he seems like a very nice kid. Uh, I, it, it leads to some questions for me, but I learned more about Taylor Swift through this, uh, theme park visitation of her albums. [00:16:52] Then I did, uh, talking to you for how many years now. [00:16:58] Christina: [00:16:58] Exactly six. [00:17:00] Yeah, no I I’m with you. And like, I’m not going to diagnose anybody either, because it’s not fair. I, but savant, like, I definitely think like if there was a spectrum thing would not be surprised. Uh, uh, very impressed though. This is one of I, I saw it and I was like, This is insane. And we have to talk about this because I didn’t think that you would take it this seriously. [00:17:21] And I loved it. Like you got this into it, because my whole thing, I was just like I would there’s I try to think I’m like, okay, Christina, is this ever anything you would have spent this much time on? And I don’t know. I think maybe if I were really into theme parks and I were like 13 or [00:17:39] Brett: [00:17:39] Yeah, that’s exactly it. I would have absolutely done this when I was 10. [00:17:44] Christina: [00:17:44] Yeah. Yeah. Like, especially if like the, with the pandemic, when like you can’t go anywhere and you have nothing to do, like, this is the sort of thing that I would have done. Right. Uh, he’s a little bit older, which is also why it’s better. But I do honestly have to say, like, by the time I was his age, [00:18:00] no, we would not have done it. [00:18:02] Having said that very glad that he did, because it’s fun to think about. And now I’m hoping that other people who have more time. And passions in this than me genuinely do like make a digital version of this in rollercoaster tycoon or the Sims or, or something grant that Datto, um, you know, any of the open world kind of moddable games, because I feel like that would be really cool. [00:18:25]Brett: [00:18:25] Yeah. So, [00:18:27] Christina: [00:18:27] I definitely, I definitely want to like be, I definitely want like some sort of mod at least of the bad, bad blood, you know, motorcycles. [00:18:34] Brett: [00:18:34] yeah, I would play that, that video is fun. That was the tailor. That was the tailor I can most easily appreciate. Always. [00:18:42] Christina: [00:18:42] well that’s peak Taylor. [00:18:44]Brett: [00:18:44] Um, so I’m getting all these notifications from Slack right now because my friend, uh, Harold Chris Harold, his name’s Christopher, but he goes by Harold. So we just call him Harold, Chris, Harold. [00:18:56] Um, Uh, you may know him as Harold Dena on [00:19:00] Twitter. Anyway, he’s telling me that, uh, listening to our last overtired, he says, the more I listened to the two of you, the more I’m convinced I have ADHD. And I have to say, uh, if there’s one thing that this show exists for is to very casually and unprofessionally allow people to self diagnose themselves with mental conditions. [00:19:21]Christina: [00:19:21] That’s exactly it, it is, it is absolutely. I will Sue, I will Sue. Um, and also, you know, like Harold, Chris, Harold, I don’t know if you have ADHD or not only a doctor can tell you that, but, uh, but you probably do. Cause I think most people do so, uh, welcome to the family. [00:19:39]Brett: [00:19:39] Oh, we’re, we’re not good for the mental health community. Apparently. get up, get a lot of people to pay that $800 for the test though. [00:19:47]Christina: [00:19:47] Mean, see if only we got like residuals off of that. [00:19:51]Brett: [00:19:51] Right. Um, I, I, I’m afraid that’s how too much of the medical industry works already. [00:19:57] Christina: [00:19:57] I agree with you. And I think technically [00:20:00] that’s supposed to be illegal, but it exists anyway. Unfortunately it would be, for some reason, we wouldn’t be able to do that, but yeah. [00:20:06]Brett: [00:20:06] Yeah. So. As I was taking these notes on, on this, uh, Taylor Swift theme park, my phone started move it, touching the screen on its own. Like it, like the back button would be hit when I was in the middle of typing or the app would exit in the middle of typing and not quit. Like you would actually, it would look like I had swiped up from the bottom. [00:20:32] The screen had shrunk a little and then it had shrunk down and then the icons on the springboard would start wobbling. Like I had pressed and held them. And meanwhile, I’m not touching the screen at all. And it’s just moving around, uh, opening folders, closing folders, like ghosts and. Like a really clumsy ghost, I guess, but, uh, but have [00:20:53] Christina: [00:20:53] Or a drunk ghost? [00:20:55] Brett: [00:20:55] ever seen this happen before? [00:20:56]Christina: [00:20:56] No, [00:20:57] Brett: [00:20:57] Cause I rebooted twice and it’s still [00:21:00] happening. I’m hoping it’s just something to do with the beta that I’m stupidly on [00:21:05]Christina: [00:21:05] yeah, let’s talk about that. I’m on the beta two. Are you on the dev beta or are you on the developer beta or were you on the user? Beta. [00:21:11] Brett: [00:21:11] dev beta. [00:21:13] Christina: [00:21:13] Okay. Same. And you’re on, you’re on, you’re on an iPhone 11, right? [00:21:18] Brett: [00:21:18] Yeah, no 10. [00:21:21] Christina: [00:21:21] Okay. I’m on an 11, uh, pro and, uh, I’m not having that issue, but I have had at least with the latest way of the one that came out this week, I’ve had a bunch of springboard crashes, like, like more than I’ve had in a while. Um, this beta for the most part has actually been pretty stable, especially compared to last year. [00:21:43] Uh, because I stupidly even after last year’s debacle decided to do it this year. Um, but, and that was, I think in part, because iOS 13 in general has just not been a good release, but, uh, so I’ve had things where like, I’ll be in an app, [00:22:00] everything will be fine. And then all of a sudden the screen will go black and you know, the little spinny thing will happen because the springboard has hard crashed, and then it’ll take like 30 seconds. [00:22:09] The phone will come back and I can go back to the app. And interestingly, the app saved state will be exactly where I left it. So I won’t lose anything. Uh, but springboard is hard crash, but I haven’t had this Phantom touch thing. That is interesting. That could be a hardware thing, [00:22:27] Brett: [00:22:27] Like just, just to be clear. So I took the case off. I rebooted it, I cleaned the screen, so it feels like a hardware thing. And the touches seemed to happen at specific places on the screen. Like somehow it frequently is able, you know, when you go into an app from another app and it gives you the little back button and the very upper left, it’s somehow manages to hit that all the time. [00:22:51] But if I try to hit it manually, I can’t, which makes me think there’s something going on with this screen. [00:22:57] Christina: [00:22:57] Yeah, that makes, that sounds like the digitizer. Perhaps [00:23:00] it could be a beta thing. I mean, maybe software’s making it worse, but the fact that it happens consistently and you know, certain parts of the screen does make me think, like it might be a digitizer thing. Um, [00:23:13] Brett: [00:23:13] My girlfriend, my girlfriend cracked the screen of her iPhone eight and, uh, she had a Syrian protection on it. And so she sent, they sent her a loner. She sent in her, her smashed screen. And a week later she gets a box in the mail and she opens it up and it’s her smashed screen phone, but with a glass plate over it. Well, and that was our reaction, but also the glass plate didn’t have a hole to get to the button. And it wasn’t touch sensitive. So not only was it, it wasn’t just a screen protector. It was actually like, it looked like it was, it was put on there to keep the glass in place while they sent it for actual screen replacement, but they sent it back to her instead. [00:24:00] So I think we have that all taken care of. Now, she spent like three more hours on the phone trying to get this figured out, but I don’t, that’s why I’m hoping it’s a beta thing and not a hardware thing. Cause I don’t want to deal with replacements. [00:24:13]Christina: [00:24:13] Yeah, no, I don’t blame you. And like, in, in a typical thing, like, especially cause it’s an iPhone 10, so it’s older. I feel again, just take it to anybody who is kind of reputable and has the parts, but I don’t know how open stuff is in your areas. Even get repairs. [00:24:30] Brett: [00:24:30] Oh, yeah, we don’t really have, I guess there’s one guy like that’s authorized about half hour from here, but. [00:24:36]Christina: [00:24:36] best buy is authorized now, but you know, that’s, uh, your mileage may vary with that, but at least they are authorized to do, you know, phone repairs and stuff. Um, but yeah, uh, yeah, th that complicates things. I don’t blame you. I hope it’s, uh, I hope it’s a software thing too. Um, Other than that, other than the screen moving, like, have you had other [00:25:00] issues with the, with the beta. [00:25:01] Brett: [00:25:01] Um, mostly aesthetic stuff like, um, The Twitter app is it’s still messed up, uh, ever since I installed the beta. Uh, but that’s more, uh, I would say Twitter’s fault at this point. Um, but just little quirks on the screen that seemed to get it. They seem to improve with every beta release. Uh, so I haven’t been filing reports like a good boy. [00:25:26] I’ve been just kind of patiently waiting. [00:25:29]Christina: [00:25:29] Yeah. I, uh, the only thing that I’ve like obsessively filed things over and they have at least fixed it a little. But was the changes they made to the alarms app, um, are bad and make it more difficult for you to set the alarm. At least now they have, re-introduced the kind of slider mechanism to set the time. [00:25:48] Um, you know, like in the old app. So I haven’t weirdly, I haven’t updated it on my iPad pro I’ve only put the beta on my iPhone, but yeah. You know, like for the end of, you know, [00:26:00] since the beginning of time how the alarm app has worked is that you get. You know, like three or like, I guess, um, yeah, like, like, like three different areas where you have, you can kind of cycle through by scrolling your finger. [00:26:11] And it’s kind of like a, um, like a wheel sort of motif to set the time of your alarm. And it’s, it’s really consistent and, um, works real well for me. Um, and, and I’m, I’m used to it. It’s fast. What they’ve done though, is that now I guess they’re like, Oh, well, wouldn’t it just be easier if you could type in. [00:26:30] You know, the time that you want. And sure. I guess the problem is, is that in the early betas where you would need to type would, uh, not correspond with what you were trying to change. If I was trying to add 15 minutes to, you know, a time probably trying to like increase the hour by something, it would, you know, take me to a different thing. [00:26:52] And I, and I’ve, I’ve got a, you know, it was just a pain. So now they have at least re-introduced, um, a smaller. Um, [00:27:00] kind of a wheel sort of mechanism to set the line. So that’s better. So I can stop filing bug reports on that now. But, uh, that was like the one that they were probably really tired of seeing them from me. [00:27:12] Cause I was filing one, like every single thing, I was like this, but I was like, this is bad. This is a regression. Like, this is not good. Uh, other than that, yeah, the, the widgets keep improving, but there are little bugs and UI things with that. But other than that, I have to say I’ve been, I’ve been largely impressed, but that also feels like Stockholm syndrome [00:27:34] Brett: [00:27:34] Yeah. [00:27:34]Christina: [00:27:34] 13 was so bad that, you know, I’m kind of like, well, if it’s not crashing and making my life miserable and taking everything with me and, uh, you know, drain my battery, then like I’m, I’m amazed. [00:27:49] So [00:27:50] Brett: [00:27:50] I do. I love the idea of having widgets on my home screen, like in, with all my folders and icons, but I have not found a good use for [00:28:00] it yet. [00:28:00]Christina: [00:28:00] Yeah, same. I’m the exact same position. So I have them on like one screen and I don’t do anything else. I do like the app library a lot. I like that a lot. I, I do. Um, but I have tons of apps and I have way too many pages. And so this has been a good way to just sort of. You know, get rid of all of that. And then I can just choose certain apps that I want. [00:28:22] The only thing that’s frustrating is, and they got rid of this years ago and it still annoys me is that there was a time when you could use iTunes on your Mac to organize your home screen. And that was so much faster because if I had a keyboard and a mouse, you know, and I could drag things or I could search from things and I could just kind of put it aside, it made it way easier to organize, but now it’s still like, You know, even though the app library is really nice and I like how it auto organizes stuff, there are certain things that I’m going to want to organize and have myself, but it’s really difficult still to like search, find where the app is, [00:29:00] what screen is on awareness and the app library located, you know, breast and hold and then drag it to the screen. [00:29:06] You want it on? Like, it’s just, it’s really not ideal. So I, that still annoys [00:29:12] Brett: [00:29:12] you know about the two finger thing? If you press and hold till it jiggles and then use another finger, you don’t have to drag to the edge of the screen to move between pages. I guess that’s [00:29:25] Christina: [00:29:25] know what I think [00:29:25] Brett: [00:29:25] to most people, it was new to me. [00:29:28] Christina: [00:29:28] no, I think I did know that, but I think I’ve forgotten that. So I appreciate that reminder because that will likely make things easier. Uh, I know, I [00:29:36] Brett: [00:29:36] helps a little, but still organizing with your fingers is not fun. I do do it obsessive really though. My all, I have hundreds of apps, all organized into folders by verb, like for what they do. I have folders like consume control, explore, filter, learn, and everything is sorted. And therefore. The app library is unintuitive to me because I [00:30:00] already, I already have a very similar system set up per finding the apps I use. [00:30:05] I even have one that is recent. He added that is stuff that if I, if I use, if it’s in reading recently added and I start using it a bunch, then it gets moved into a real folder. [00:30:16] Christina: [00:30:16] See see, that’s good. Okay. So on my iPad, I have that done, right. Um, but on my phone, because I have, I guess, done like the, the clean, you know, install less recently. On my phone. That’s not the case. So on my phone, I, you know, it wasn’t a place where I was like, there were, you know, just dozens, maybe even hundreds. [00:30:39] I don’t even know how many apps that were not organized. I used to obsessively organize them and then I stopped. And if you don’t keep up with it, at least I’ve found, it becomes very, very difficult to go back. And to the point that usually my solution is to just the next time I get a new phone. Set it up as a new device [00:31:00] and then re-install apps manually and put them in those folders the way that I want, which is what I had to do with my iPad actually. [00:31:06] And that’s why my iPad and I had the same way. Like I don’t have burbs, but I have similar things. I’ve code, you know, browsers, streaming, Google, you know, stylists, remotes, you know, news, you know, like finance, like I have all that type of stuff set up. And so I’m a similar situation with you where at least in my iPad, it’s super fluid. [00:31:27] But on my phone where I haven’t been able to do that, it, it can be kind of useful. Um, [00:31:34]Brett: [00:31:34] Thing frequently where they clearly want to get away from the idea of like a file system. Or, or even a desktop full of icons. And I mean, spotlight has always had the goal of, um, making it easy to find files without having to go through thousands of folders. And I feel like they’re constantly improving spotlight on iOS and the app library feels like they’re [00:32:00] when they did remember launchpad. [00:32:02] Do you ever use launchpad? [00:32:03]Christina: [00:32:03] No, but I remember it. [00:32:05] Brett: [00:32:05] Um, it’s still there for [00:32:07] Christina: [00:32:07] Yeah. I know. [00:32:08] Brett: [00:32:08] actually use it, but it feels like they’re trying that same tact on the iPhone and maybe it’ll work better. Like if, if it impresses people like you, who, who have that many apps and it’s helpful, maybe they’re getting it right this time, I guess, launchpad didn’t do didn’t bother organizing things for you, but it did give you a type ahead. [00:32:32] Search for launching apps. So I got it [00:32:37] Christina: [00:32:37] Yeah. Yeah. Launchpad was weird because launchpad was that came out in Lyon, I believe. And it was such a clear, like this isn’t, this is something that we’ve taken from iOS and, uh, you know, This is the sort of thing that would be good on a touchscreen device, more than it is with, you know, a mouse cursor. [00:32:57] The only thing I’ve ever used launchpad [00:33:00] for has been Ben to delete something from the Mac app store, because it’s much easier to find the app that way and then click and hold and click on the X button to do that on the so like that’s literally the only thing I use. Yeah. Launch pad for. Um, my fear with app library is that. [00:33:20] It might be one of those things that’s useful, but unintuitive to the regular people that could actually get use out of it, meaning that like their discovery of it might like if it’s because it’s by default at the very end of your screens, you might not know it exists and they might not make it clear to be like, Hey, you can delete these other app screens and your apps. [00:33:44] Aren’t going to go away. Um, You know, I think, I think that’s going to be the challenge they’re going to have is like, how do you get regular people to kind of know that this, this can be another option, like in a weird way, it would almost be beneficial if they had a launch pad type of button, [00:34:00] um, or at least like big folder launcher that you could put on one of your other home screens that would take you into that view. [00:34:07] Uh, you know, which is what Android does. [00:34:11] Brett: [00:34:11] Oh, this is cool. It gives me a test flight folder. All of my test flight apps are automatically corralled together. That, uh, I’ll I’ll, I’ll give it that that’s handy. [00:34:22] Christina: [00:34:22] Yeah, I do. I do have to say, like, I wouldn’t necessarily pick all the organizations the way that they do, but I have noticed in the last few beta updates that it’s gotten smarter and better, uh, similar to the way that, uh, the photos app does a pretty good job with kind of its automatic collections. Like, you know, when they introduced the screenshots one. [00:34:42] I was like, because I’d had my own screenshots folder and like I’d had like a, a mechanism that I would go through for years where I would find screenshots and put them into a specific place, um, using some Python or whatever. And I was like, Oh, cool. Don’t have to do that anymore. That’s real nice. [00:34:57] Brett: [00:34:57] Yeah. Yeah, they get it [00:35:00] right once in a while. So what you were saying, you had some, uh, some Catalina stuff going on [00:35:06]Christina: [00:35:06] yeah, so I hate Catalina. It is, it is the worst. It is the worst Mac operating system, I think that I’ve ever used. Um, yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, you know, when it came out because of all the different permission stuff, people were comparing it to the Microsoft Vista to windows Vista rather. And, and I thought that that was after the time, but I actually think that that’s unfair to Vista because Vista was bad. [00:35:33] Vista Vista was bad. Uh, but Vista was bad primarily because a, the stupid, you know, like, um, you know, permission system, but also it, it required more horsepower than the machines that people were using it on. And even some of the machines that was sold on and, you know, like you needed a really good graphics card from the Aero glass and it just, you know, it was a mess in that way, but. [00:35:58] You know, within a few years, [00:36:00] once computers got more powerful and whatnot, like it was, it was OK. And, and they, they, you know, cut down on some of the most egregious stuff with windows seven, which I think, you know, most people have kind of considered like the, the like ideal, um, windows release at least of a certain type. [00:36:17] You know, it was, it was, uh, maybe not like as good as. Maca West, but it certainly was like, if you’re going to use windows, like this is like the platonic ideal of, of, um, you know, windows from kind of the, the XP, uh, era. And like, I guess that, that version of the kernel era or whatever. Um, so yeah, I think that it’s, but, but, but Vista, you know, had some decent things. [00:36:41] I, uh, I think the Catalina, the, the better analogy frankly, is, uh, the, the windows millennium edition windows, Emmy. Uh, which is, I still have, like, this is now coming on 20 years. I have significant [00:37:00] anger issues about from being like a high school student who bought the upgrade for cheap and installed it and watched it do terrible things to my system, to the point that I had to re-install windows 98. [00:37:12] Second edition. And when I did that, I was trying to back up my email and I backed up the wrong folder because outlook change where they, you know, sort of database too. And I lost four years of email, which I’m still mad about. So, uh, and, and what does it mean was so bad that it came pre-installed on the machines that. [00:37:29] We used when we went to college, which like happened right when XP came out and, uh, I, I booted that computer, uh, that came with windows and me, and it came with, uh, like a free, you know, future release of XP. They’re like, okay, we’ll mail you, you know, XP, um, in the future so that you can upgrade. Uh, and, um, I literally booted that computer with, with windows me on at one time. [00:37:54] And that one time was just so I could insert the burned. Uh, like windows XP, [00:38:00] like a leak that had the, the, um, serial key that everybody used on the internet like that, once somebody, somebody found it, this was like the first week of school before the classes even started somebody. Um, one of my friends had that burned it on. [00:38:15] A CDR wrote the cereal on the, um, you know, the paper sleeve gave that to me. And that was the only time I ever booted that operating system on that machine. And then I used that CDR to upgrade all of my roommates computers and about half the other people in the dorms. And that was how I met friends. [00:38:33] Like my first week of college was putting XP on people’s computers. Well, it was, it was that, and it was awesome either net ports, because people, not every computer you bought would automatically have an ethernet port at that time. Like it should have, but they didn’t. So many of them still came with modems instead, and kids didn’t realize that. [00:38:51] And I was like, Oh, okay, well you need to spend $30. And get this card and they’re like, well, how do I open up my machines? How do I open up my Dell or whatever? And I’m like, I got you. [00:39:00] Um, and so, you know, and I worked at best buy, so I could even get a discount, you know, on either net card. So I would just go and I was just like load up, you know, on ethernet cars. [00:39:09] And then just, and that was how I met people, you know? So I was just like, I was just like the girl that was going to fix their computers. Um, but yeah, so I think that this is Catalina has been the windows Amy of, of Mac. Operating systems for me. And I hate saying that, but we’re almost a year into it and I’ve never had a worse operating system experience on a mat in my life. [00:39:31]Brett: [00:39:31] I I’ve. Other than the permissions issues you mentioned, which were frequent and annoying, um, uh, I don’t know, honestly, I’ve really loved Catalina. [00:39:42]Christina: [00:39:42] Yeah, I don’t, you know, and I’ve heard that from, from a number of people, people who haven’t had my issues, but then I’ve talked to people who have had the issues where I don’t know, there’s weird stuff that happens with audio. This is like the third time I’ve had to do a complete reformat on this laptop and it’s a 2017 Mac book pro. [00:39:56] So it’s not, you know, the latest and greatest, but it’s, [00:40:00] it’s not like I’m on a 2014 or something. You know what I mean? Like. Well, I mean, I’m just saying like, which I think is that way, is that what you’re on? Are you [00:40:09] Brett: [00:40:09] No, I’m on a I’m on a 2019. [00:40:12] Christina: [00:40:12] okay. That’s what I thought I was like. Yeah. So, but right. But I mean, I’m not like trying, but this isn’t a situation where I’m trying to, where you could make the argument. [00:40:19] Oh, well, you’re, you’re just trying to put too much on this and I’m like, no, I’m, I’m, I’m really not like this machine has, has a 16 gigs of Ram and. You know, um, should be capable of doing whatever Catalina wants. Like it’s not a hardware thing. Um, there’s just something with either my setup or the apps that I use, where just with audio, I get issues. [00:40:43] I get crashes. Uh, I still run into stuff with home brew sometimes. But that’s mostly, uh, figure things out, but, um, what’ll happen is I’ll just start getting kernel panics and the kernel panics. And maybe this is a hardware thing. I don’t know. Maybe I’m maybe I’m unfairly blaming Catalina, [00:41:00] but you know, if it wasn’t happening in Mojave is all I know. [00:41:04] And, and I get like curl panics. Um, but there’s not really kind of a discernible, uh, you know, like thing that I can find why it’s happening. And then I wind up having to. Uh, just kind of do a full re-install and it winds up happening at very inopportune times. So like I never even put it on my iMac. I kept Mojave on my iMac. [00:41:25] Brett: [00:41:25] I do have this thing where if I unplug my Mac book pro from my Thunderbolt doc, uh, the screen, doesn’t always flip back over and about 90% of the time with the screen, doesn’t flip back over within the first 30 seconds after I unplug it, it just shuts down. And, and boots back up with a, your computer was restarted due to a problem. [00:41:51] Um, but I’ve always assumed that was a hardware thing. Um, [00:41:55] Christina: [00:41:55] I think that, I think that’s a, what, what doc are you [00:41:58] Brett: [00:41:58] the Cal digit, [00:42:00] the [00:42:00] Christina: [00:42:00] Ts three plus, [00:42:02] Brett: [00:42:02] something I don’t dunno, it’s [00:42:03] Christina: [00:42:03] yeah, I have the same doc. [00:42:05] Brett: [00:42:05] digit one. [00:42:06]Christina: [00:42:06] It’s the best one. So if they’ve done a good job, like I would check to make sure you have the latest firmware on that, but they’ve, they’ve done a good job. There’s something weird with Thunderbolt. Um, from what I can gather, Apple is very, very like precise on the specifications that it uses for anything involving video. [00:42:29] And, and this has always been the case. So, uh, I remember when the Mac pro came out, the trashcan Mac pro came out, you know, the, one of the big things was the biggest support for K displays. And so when I got my review unit Apple, um, they got me, they, they allowed me to have her review unit of a cinema display, which was very nice of them, but I wanted to test out four K displays. [00:42:48] So I called in a couple of 4k displays from some other manufacturers. And the first one, just flat out didn’t work. And they even kind of had to acknowledge that we’ve got to wait for some performer thing. And then the second [00:43:00] one did, but I had to find a very specific type of display port cable because of the way that the display port specification worked. [00:43:10] Um, To do 4k on macro Wes. What, you know, typically what it does, what it’s doing is it is doing to it’s um, within windows or other things. It does basically a thing where it’s, uh, kind of, I guess, uh, attaching two screens together. And so you can sometimes have tearing issues and macro West says something. [00:43:32] A little bit of better, I think, to prevent some of those tearing issues. But because of that, if your cable, and if the firmware on your monitor are not of like the exact, like display port standards, then stuff will not work. And so there was a thing where I had to like add to be on like a beta version of Mac iOS, and I had to have like a very specific type of cable that was absolutely rated, you know, to the right thing. [00:43:56] And, um, that was. Fixed years ago, but I’ve even [00:44:00] found now, like with any sort of USBC monitor or even a non USBC monitor, if it’s of a certain resolution, um, like I have to like, make sure it’s like, okay, is the cable exactly the right type? Is the display port exactly. You know, updated to the latest version or whatever, because. [00:44:20] I find the same thing with you, like unplugging or disconnecting, the screen might not come back. Other, there might be other issues. It’s an approval. I understand it’s because I guess other manufacturers don’t have the same tolerances and can have a little more wiggle room about stuff, whereas is very specific about what it [00:44:43] Brett: [00:44:43] I will, uh, I will look into firmware and cables and I hope big, sir, is, uh, I hope it’s a break for you. [00:44:49]Christina: [00:44:49] Yeah. Um, I am too. I hope, I hope so as well. And I’m not going to have a choice, uh, you know, like I’m going to have to go there. So, cause I don’t have it. Well, I mean, I guess I could downgrade [00:45:00] this, I guess I could keep the macro pro I could put it back on CA on Mohabi, but. I, I, that doesn’t feel smart and more and more apps don’t even support it anymore. [00:45:11] So, uh, my iMac, I mean, I’m, I’m only keeping Catalina on that as long as required. So as soon as big surf is released goodbye. Um, but [00:45:23]Brett: [00:45:23] How many megabytes of Ram does your, your new iMac have, [00:45:27]Christina: [00:45:27] uh, megabytes. [00:45:29] Brett: [00:45:29] how many gigabytes you got? Hundred and 28 gigabytes of Ram [00:45:33]Christina: [00:45:33] That was not intentional. [00:45:34] Brett: [00:45:34] still that’s a, I remember when 16 megabytes of Ram was top notch, like that’s where I grew up. [00:45:42]Christina: [00:45:42] Yeah, me too. When I, when I w my first real computer had eight megabytes of Ram, which seemed massive. And the first upgrade I ever did to it of my own was to add another eight megabytes and. I had my second computer, that the computer I got when, um, for, for Christmas in 1998, the one that [00:46:00] my parents spoiled me with and let me have my bedroom, that one had 102 28 megabytes of Ram, which you know, was like baller, you know? [00:46:09] Brett: [00:46:09] at that point. [00:46:10]Christina: [00:46:10] Basically. Yeah, it was a Pentium two, four 50, it had a DVD drive. It had 128 gigs of megs of Ram. It had an eight Meg graphics card, um, that also could do like video capture, like that machine ruled. But, um, yeah, 128 gigabytes, which was not intentional. I was going to go 64. And what happened was Amazon lost my package, which was fine. [00:46:36] Cause I didn’t even have the iMac yet. And then I still hadn’t seen it. And so I wanted to check the status and the app was like, your package has been lost. Please contact us for a refund. I was like, Oh, okay, well fine. So I do that. And I’m like, yeah, I haven’t received my package. They’re like, yeah, we can’t find any, you know, um, evidence of it in the tracking system. [00:46:59] So we’ll [00:47:00] just go ahead and refund you. Okay, cool. Thank you. So I reorder the exact same Ram. From the same, like, you know, seller whatever. And two days later that Ram arrives and then three days after that, another package arrives if the original package with the original 64 gigs of Ram. So I had like a weird existential thing where I was like, all right, what’s the ethical move here? [00:47:26] Like, do I have to return this up to call? Can I keep it like, what’s, what’s the situation. And I was conflicted and a lot of people told me they were like, you don’t have to do anything, just keep it. And, and I was like, that seems fair. But then I was like, well, even though this was fulfilled by Amazon, this wasn’t sold by Amazon. [00:47:44] And I was like, concerned about the buyer or the seller or whatever. Like I was like, I don’t want them to be, you know, jipped $270 or whatever. So I reached out to Amazon. I was like, Hey, um, I got this stuff that you’d refunded before. It actually did wind up showing up. Um, what do you want me to do? [00:48:00] And they were like, just keep it. [00:48:01]Brett: [00:48:01] I’ve had that happen with, uh, with double shipped orders before. And they’re just it’s I guess it’s more trouble for them to deal with shipping and returns than it is to just write it off. [00:48:11]Christina: [00:48:11] Yeah, that’s what I’m guessing. I’m also thinking that there’s probably some sort of insurance thing going on and because they couldn’t, they didn’t have tracking on the package and they. Guests don’t see that it was actually delivered. I don’t know. So really like the insurance companies are the ones that are paying for this, which, you know what fine. [00:48:31] Um, the net result is I have 128 gigs of [00:48:34] Brett: [00:48:34] Fantastic. I have 64, I think, in this machine. Yeah. It’s, it’s outstanding. I love it. But, uh, I can only imagine how, how, how fun my life would be if I could, if I had a machine that could even handle 128 gigs, which I’m pretty sure this one can not. [00:48:52]Christina: [00:48:52] Yeah, no, I, um, I’ve never obviously had a machine that can come even anywhere close to that. And so what I’m hoping to do once I [00:49:00] get my desk set up and my office and all that is I’m going to do some strip livestream where I would like to, if people are interested in this sort of thing, Where I, I try to see like how many containers, how many VMs, like, I would like to, I want to like figure out like what it would be like, what kind of fuckery do I need to do to, um, [00:49:17] Brett: [00:49:17] it out. [00:49:18] Christina: [00:49:18] you know, exactly. [00:49:20] Cause I don’t know. Cause I don’t even know to be totally honest. Like I know there are workloads and things you could do. I mean, I guess I could just open up logic and keep opening up like new, you know, um, tracks over and over again. But I still, I [00:49:33] Brett: [00:49:33] a drinking game, make it like a, every app that, that Christina launches or every new logic audio project she opens you. Take another drink and you just keep going until either. The computer beach balls or someone gets alcohol poisoning. [00:49:52]Christina: [00:49:52] Yeah. I was going to say, I was like, I think that’s a real good way for, uh, for me to get alcohol poisoning, but, [00:49:57] Brett: [00:49:57] of drinking games though? Isn’t [00:50:00] somebody supposed to die. I’ve never understood how those work. [00:50:02]Christina: [00:50:02] Yeah, I think so. I think that’s probably, that is probably the, the actual point is that someone’s supposed to die. It’s kind of like a, you know, like those, uh, like those teen horror movies from the, from the late nineties, you know, like, that’s just like, I know what you did last summer. You know, you had a drinking game and ran over someone and covered up the murder. [00:50:21] Brett: [00:50:21] I’m thinking of going vegetarian. [00:50:23]Christina: [00:50:23] All right, you’ve done that before. Haven’t [00:50:25] Brett: [00:50:25] was vegetarian for 17 years. And then I wasn’t, and now I’m suddenly like every time I eat meat, I’m feeling very bad about it. And it is, um, take it’s having, it’s wearing me down mentally to the point where I can’t justify eating meat anymore. So I’m switching my HelloFresh deliveries over to the vegetarian options, which is a pain because. [00:50:55] I’ve been cooking for both ELL and I, but Elle has her own dietary [00:51:00] requirements, which include a gluten and dairy free and it’s and rice. She has, she reacts to rice, which means vegetarian options, uh, that don’t include rice are. Rice and, or gluten are, are few and far between, and you’re not going to get them from a prepackaged place, like hello, fresh. [00:51:25] So for the time being, we are cooking separate meals again. Um, but I, I don’t know. I just, something switched in my brain. I, I originally went vegetarian after, well, I had, I worked, I’d done some farm work in high school and. Uh, had slaughtered chickens and felt a little conflicted that whole whole time, but it wasn’t until like my first year of college, I ate some lamb and I, it was more that I didn’t like the meal, then I felt bad about [00:52:00] the, the sheep, but it all kind of came together and I just never ate meat again. [00:52:06] After that day for another 17 years. Um, when pescatarian at the end there for awhile, but it it’s it’s happening again though. I saw, I watched this pretty, I don’t want to call it a bad movie. Um, now I can’t remember what it was called. It had a, uh, Owen Owen, what’s his name? Blonde guy, Owen Wilson, and Zach Galifianakis in it. [00:52:32]And. There’s a scene where Owen has to kill a chicken to cook for dinner. And my, my line has always kind of been, if, if I can, if I could kill it to eat it, then I’m okay with eating it. If I know in my heart that I could have killed this animal, but I watched that scene and realized I don’t, I don’t think I, even [00:53:00] if it were a survival situation, And, and I had to come up with some rationalization about the animal, making a sacrifice for me and being thankful and all of that. [00:53:11] I could probably probably rationalize my way through a slaughter and, and a meal, but to kill an animal, just to have a good burger, I don’t think I’m there anymore. I think, I think some, some something. Some line got crossed somewhere. I don’t know. I’m still conflicted. [00:53:33]Christina: [00:53:33] Yeah, no. I mean, I think that other than the complications for, you know, maybe having to cook separately, I mean, do you need to do what feels right to you and. I think everybody has their own lines for that [00:53:45] Brett: [00:53:45] If I go vegan, I promise not to talk about it. [00:53:48]Christina: [00:53:48] I mean, you can talk about it. I’m just not going to just like, I’m not going to, I look, I’m not, I respect people who were vegan. [00:53:55] I respect people who are vegetarian. I’m not, [00:53:57] Brett: [00:53:57] What if I make that [00:53:59] Christina: [00:53:59] I will not, [00:54:00] [00:54:00] Brett: [00:54:00] your homework is to go vegan? [00:54:01]Christina: [00:54:01] I’m not going to do that. [00:54:03] Brett: [00:54:03] Fuck it. No, come out [00:54:05] Christina: [00:54:05] Absolutely not. Absolutely not. No, no. Not even, um, this is just, doing that, [00:54:12] Brett: [00:54:12] very, very [00:54:13] Christina: [00:54:13] process people who are under no circumstances. I mean, like there would have to be like a, you’re going to die if you don’t have this sort of diet and it happens to be vegan. Um, I just, I, I can understand the arguments at least for vegetarianism, and I can understand both for animals and also for the environment. [00:54:35] Uh, I have a lot more trouble with the full vegan arguments, to be honest. [00:54:41] Brett: [00:54:41] I, yeah, I don’t like, especially from the environmental standpoint, uh, I, I fully relate to vegans. I’ve just never, it’s never been important enough to me to make the sacrifices involved. Um, and, and [00:55:00] for me, vegetarianism was always more about the, the environment than it was about animal rights. Uh, that shift it did for me. [00:55:09] I think actually it’s more about animal rights now than it is about the environment. It’s definitely both, but yeah, no, I, I really, I, I, I, I listened to two people talk about why they’re vegan and I cannot, I agree with most of what they say. [00:55:26]Christina: [00:55:26] Yeah. I mean, I might be able to agree in the abstracts, but. [00:55:30] Brett: [00:55:30] But then taco bell calls. [00:55:32]Christina: [00:55:32] Well, that’s just that, I mean, I think it’s that I, I try to like take, I guess my, my, I have like a more holistic view, which is, I’m not saying that the things that you’re claiming are incorrect or wrong, but there are all these other things that, that we do and that we partake in and that are, you know, a part of functioning in a modern society that equally have detrimental impacts on. [00:55:56] Other environments or other species, uh, and, and, you know, [00:56:00] ecologically and, and whatnot. And so like where do you draw the line? Right. Like for me it becomes like a, a question of, okay, you’re not wrong about this, but this is also the same case for if you’re going to drive or consume any sort of transportation or electricity or. [00:56:16] You know, use a computer. Like, you know what I mean? Like where do I draw the line? Like, if, if I’m going to, if I’m going to say that I’m going to be vegan because of all those things, then should I be using a phone or computer? Because the minerals in it have been mined in ways [00:56:29] Brett: [00:56:29] Right. And I, [00:56:30] Christina: [00:56:30] and that are problematic. [00:56:31] Like I, [00:56:32] Brett: [00:56:32] I do think it comes down to doing what feels okay to you because most, most of the problems happening to our environment right now are not in the hands of consumers. Uh, we’re not the ones causing the problem and we’re not the ones who through individual action are going to cause any significant amount of change. [00:56:54] Only through political action. Do we have any chance of actually affecting the environment for the [00:57:00] better? So ultimately it comes down to what’s what feels okay to you? Yeah. There’s not a lot of point in like a, in preaching at people because even, even if you did make a difference in that person’s life, that person ultimately, isn’t going to make a difference in and. [00:57:19] Glo, uh, climate change and all of the major environmental catastrophes we have going on. [00:57:25]Christina: [00:57:25] Right, right. I mean, exactly. I know that that’s part of the, that people are able, that’s the problem. Nobody does anything. And you know, it it’s collective, it takes a lot of people to do stuff. And yeah, I guess so if, if you were able to start a genuine movement where people genuinely in mass start to effect the economics so that the industry isn’t as profitable and doesn’t make the money, it is then I guess you could do something. [00:57:46] But short of that, I mean, I’m with you. I think that it takes political and legislation change and it is the why I do like, um, you know, some of the different like meatless, um, uh, startups, um, I [00:58:00] actually think that that is the sort of thing that could potentially move the needle. Um, although they have their own problems. [00:58:06] I mean, you have to look into like how much energy are those things, you know, uh, taking and creating and, and how, how viable are they? But getting aside from that, like beyond burger and, and what’s the other one, um, [00:58:19] Brett: [00:58:19] was the first one that came to mind. I can’t think of the other one. [00:58:22] Christina: [00:58:22] Yeah. Yeah. So, so there’s beyond, and then there, there there’s another one. Uh, but you know, if those things like they’re starting to be, um, uh, impossible. Uh, so you know, those are, are, those are starting to be sold, you know, in fast food restaurants and grocery stores and having name brands. I think that’s actually really powerful because that could become a viable business. [00:58:42] Then that’s the sort of thing that could potentially shift people away from saying. Okay. We are going to be investing this much in traditional agriculture and, um, you know, like, um, whatever the term is for, um, uh, cattle or whatever, whatever the term is for raising animals life. [00:59:00] Thank you. So, yeah, we’re, we’re, we’re going to change our, our agriculture and livestock, um, do investments accordingly that I think could have real impact, but. [00:59:09] Yeah. So I’m, I’m in favor of that, even if I’m not personally like going to make the decision to be a vegan, [00:59:16] Brett: [00:59:16] Those beyond burgers are [00:59:18] Christina: [00:59:18] and you can, they are, they are, I have to say, like, I’ve tried a lot of the different meatless things and most of them are terrible beyond burgers though. Are, are good. Um, you know, I prefer beef, but. [00:59:29]Brett: [00:59:29] I’m really good at cooking meat, which is, I think a disappointment to L that I’m not going to be cooking meat anymore. I have a real knack for tender juicy meat dishes. Um, this is sounding dirtier than I meant for it to, but man, whether it’s a grill or a stove or even a beef Wellington and the oven, I I’m, I’m good at it. [00:59:51] Like I, I rarely mess up. Meet. I have a strong appreciation for meat and we’ve spent years now [01:00:00] buying local, uh, local farms and local slaughterhouses, uh, that have, you know, free range, cattle and chickens. And we’ve been very careful about where we get our meat from. And that has felt okay to me up to this point, suddenly it’s not good enough anymore. [01:00:21]Christina: [01:00:21] Yeah. I mean, you, you have to do what you’re comfortable with and if you’re not comfortable with it, you’re not, I, I do kind of love that irony though of the fact that like the guy who was the vegetarian for so many years is really good at, at, um, cooking meat. Like that’s. [01:00:37] Brett: [01:00:37] Yeah. Yeah. There’s a, [01:00:40] Christina: [01:00:40] There, there there’s, there’s an O Henry aspect of that, that I quite enjoy. [01:00:44] Brett: [01:00:44] um, do you have, have you seen how to build a girl? Um, it is, uh, it’s the movie of the week on iTunes right now. It’s a 99 cent rental. I would, I would recommend rent it and watch it sometime in the next 29 days. [01:01:00] Uh, we can, we can have a chat about it. It’s uh, it’s pretty good. It won’t blow you away, but. [01:01:05] It’s a, it’s the story of, uh, uh, based on semi based on true events. I can’t remember how they phrase it, but it was basically loosely based on some true events, but a young girl in high school who gets a job writing for a rock and roll magazine. And she is suddenly thrust into the world of interviewing rock stars and reviewing bands. [01:01:29] And it goes from there it’s, it’s fun. [01:01:33]Christina: [01:01:33] So it’s kind of a girl version of [01:01:35] Brett: [01:01:35] Yeah. Uh, the, I guess the big thing is the story of, um, it’s a female empowerment story. It’s she’s, she’s, uh, uh, not great looking very plain looking overweight, high school girl with no friends who finds a way to create a persona that works for her. [01:02:00] And really, really succeed at it and at some points too much. [01:02:06] You’ll see. You’ll see. I’d love to talk about it. Um, [01:02:10] Christina: [01:02:10] Yeah. Okay. I’m I’m, I’m, I’m putting that, uh, on my, uh, on my, like, I’m literally like opening up the iTunes app now to find this so I can rent this. [01:02:19] Brett: [01:02:19] yeah. Oh, bring it on is on it’s the what? [01:02:24] Christina: [01:02:24] it’s 20th anniversary edition. I just saw that and I feel so old. [01:02:27] Brett: [01:02:27] buy it to own for like two 99 right now. And every time I see it, I’m so close, but I’ve seen it so many times that I don’t feel like I need to own it. [01:02:36]Christina: [01:02:36] Oh, but [01:02:36] Brett: [01:02:36] Okay. That’s all I needed to hear. I’m going to go buy it. [01:02:39]Christina: [01:02:39] Yeah, you have to, I would have bought it, but I already have, so, uh, I, uh, Oh, you do. It’s so good. I love that movie so much. God is also, I love pitch. Perfect. Cause pitch perfect is the exact same movie as bring it on. [01:02:52] Brett: [01:02:52] I agree. [01:02:53] Christina: [01:02:53] Uh, it’s the exact same movie, but they both worked [01:02:56] Brett: [01:02:56] not say the same for the sequels pitch. [01:03:00] Perfect. Two was actually pretty good. [01:03:02]Christina: [01:03:02] It had its moments. I thought that magic Mike too was how you do that movie correctly. [01:03:07]Brett: [01:03:07] Fair. Fair. Okay. [01:03:09] Christina: [01:03:09] No, it means genuinely, they were both Roadtrip movies. They were both sequels. Like they, it was the same plot, but magic Mike too, I think actually work to whereas pitch perfect two and then pitch perfect three, you know what? I enjoyed watching it with my, with my girlfriends. Um, and, and I enjoyed like the final scene, but. [01:03:28]Whoever tried to put like an action movie into that was, that was just, that was, yeah. I mean, I, I get it. Rebel Wilson is now a lot more famous than when you started and you have to give her more to do and what not, but I am not watching an acapella movie to see people jumping from [01:03:47] Brett: [01:03:47] Aren’t there like 10, bring it on SQLs now. [01:03:49]Christina: [01:03:49] I think so, but I’ve never watched any of them because to me they’re all straight to [01:03:53] Brett: [01:03:53] Yeah. Well, and they are there. I think I saw one on cable TV at one [01:04:00] point and it was just a hallow. Echo of the genius that was bringing it on. [01:04:06]Christina: [01:04:06] Yeah, I think what they did, it was, they did a similar thing with, um, the American pie series. Obviously there were, uh, I think for, uh, American pie films that were in theaters, um, but they had a. Huge number of directivity SQLs. And that, that I think Eugene Levy was the only person that was part of any of it. [01:04:30] Um, and so to me, I’m like, all right, this, this is not in any way related. Like this is, this is not part of Canon. And I think we bring it on. They didn’t even have, there was no one who was from the first film in any of the sequels is kind of like the mean girls sequel. It’s like this literally. Does not have anything to do with it and is just the studio trying to expand on the licensing and, and there’s nothing else. [01:04:56] Brett: [01:04:56] Someone should make a [01:04:57] Christina: [01:04:57] yeah, I think there, [01:04:59] Brett: [01:04:59] that’s not mean [01:05:00] girls. Although me [01:05:01] Christina: [01:05:01] And actually [01:05:02] Brett: [01:05:02] the SQL to Heather’s. [01:05:04]Christina: [01:05:04] it’s the nicer version of Heathers. I mean, it’s so much, I mean, the, the thing is, and I’ve said this probably on this podcast before. You could not make Heathers today and release period. No, you couldn’t do it. Um, uh, you couldn’t have done it probably five or six years after Heather’s came out to be totally honest, like honestly, the way that they deal with suicide and, you know, murder and I mean the whole Plaza nature of it, especially once school students started to happen. [01:05:33] There’s no way you could have made that film. So like, Certainly not post Columbine, but I think probably post whatever the Arkansas one was, was probably when you wouldn’t have been able to make Heathers anymore. Um, they did try to do it as a TV show. That was horrible. Did you see this? Okay, so the paramount network, um, which used to be spike TV, and then it became, I don’t know, it’s had a bunch [01:06:00] of iterations, but now it’s the paramount network. [01:06:02] They. Bought and decided to basically do kind of like a remake of Heathers, except all the Heathers. Instead of being like beautiful, popular girls were still these, you know, bitchy, you know, like people ran the school, but like one was, um, you know, non-binary one was like a queer. I’m a person of color. One was like, you know, really like Bush, like, like that, you know, a girl, like, you know, they’re all like these kind of like different types of things, which I guess on its space is sort of interesting. [01:06:33] But again, the same time, it’s kind of not like the same time. I kind of don’t know. Like I get the point of like, feeling like you’re empowering people by being like, Oh, these people who don’t look, you know, the series of like white plastic thing can be the people in power. But I also don’t know if we’re quite there yet to essentially vilify those types of people too. [01:06:57] You know what I mean? Um, so [01:07:00] it didn’t work. Um, also it tried too hard. They had to completely change obviously the language and, you know, some of the, uh, the, the content, but even with all the changes they made that watered it down completely after, um, I think it was the, the New Zealand, um, uh, uh, mass murder and terrorism act. [01:07:22]They were, that was when they were airing the show and they had to burn it off and they had to basically stop airing it and edit things significantly. And so even. The very poor attempt at doing a woke version of Heathers. And let’s just say this right now. You don’t need a workforce competitors. You don’t need any sort of remake of Heathers. [01:07:40] It does not need to exist, but the woke version was especially bad. And especially I think just poorly done. Um, even the though version of Heathers was too controversial. For them to continue doing so they had to edit it and it was just a complete disaster. So, uh, yeah. Uh, Heather’s could never be made again. [01:07:58] What’s interesting Wynonna [01:08:00] writer for many, many years. I really wanted to seek well because, um, uh, Daniel Waters who wrote it or direct wrote directly like that, the first film, uh, he, um, I guess I’ve been working on something and she was really, really interested in having something come together, but I just don’t think there’s, you know, there’s any way you, you can do. [01:08:19] Anything that would even do it justice, you know, it’s [01:08:21] Brett: [01:08:21] How do you know all this stuff? [01:08:23]Christina: [01:08:23] I, I read [01:08:25]Brett: [01:08:25] He like, you know, you know, stuff about everything. Like, I don’t understand the breadth, the depth of knowledge you have about a breadth of topics. It’s crazy. You’re brilliant. You’re a brilliant woman. [01:08:39]Christina: [01:08:39] Well, thank you very much. I, I just have a good memory. I honestly that’s. That’s just it. I just [01:08:44] Brett: [01:08:44] Yeah. But you, you remember things that I wouldn’t be interested enough in, and I’m not saying that to be mean, but. Like you, you obviously are interested enough to pick up the information to begin with, and then you remember it. [01:09:00] Me, I would never even consider, uh, like finding that information, let alone forgetting it. [01:09:06]Christina: [01:09:06] Right. Yeah, no, I, um, if I can find an interest in something and that’s the key, if I can find like a genuine interest in it, then I will usually go overboard and learning everything I can about it. And then I’m lucky enough to usually have a good memory for being able to retain and understand it. And, uh, Heather’s is like one of my favorite movies ever. [01:09:29] So [01:09:31] Brett: [01:09:31] So it was an area. It’s not that you know that much about every movie you just happen to know that much about Heather’s. Okay. Although we’ve proven time. And again, that, that you have that kind of knowledge about things I wouldn’t [01:09:45] Christina: [01:09:45] Lots of things I look, can I say I’m, I’m an eclectic person. I do have a wide range of interests. Um, that’s that? That’s [01:09:53] Brett: [01:09:53] do? And me I’m the gen X or just complains about everything. [01:09:57]Christina: [01:09:57] Well, you don’t complain about everything. You just [01:10:00] like, [01:10:00] Brett: [01:10:00] I don’t though. That’s the thing is I [01:10:02] Christina: [01:10:02] I know you don’t. I know you [01:10:04] Brett: [01:10:04] lot of stuff. I just, I grew up in an environment where. It was super uncool to care about anything. [01:10:13] Christina: [01:10:13] take care. Yeah. Apathy was what you had to, you had to pretend to be apathetic, but you’re not empathetic. [01:10:18] Brett: [01:10:18] generation of foodies and beer snobs could not have happened in gen X. Like it just wasn’t cool [01:10:25] Christina: [01:10:25] Oh, no. [01:10:26] Brett: [01:10:26] much about anything. [01:10:28]Christina: [01:10:28] Okay. PR homework for us, both because I haven’t watched this movie in a long time, but I have historically loved it and, but I’m not gen X. And so my love of it was. From the person who grew up in some ways aspiring to be gen X, because they were cool when I was young. And then when I saw it, when I was older, in some ways like having a different appreciation of it and actually kind of rooting for the different characters, but we should watch reality bites. [01:10:55]Brett: [01:10:55] But yeah, no, I could use the refresh around reality bites. [01:10:58]Christina: [01:10:58] That’s it, [01:11:00] you know, I remember really enjoying it. Um, Ben Stiller directed that, which is really interesting because most people obviously just think of him as, you know, an actor, but he actually is a pretty accomplished [01:11:11] Brett: [01:11:11] that the one that had screaming trees on the soundtrack? [01:11:13]Christina: [01:11:13] I’m pretty sure the soundtrack was really good. [01:11:17]Brett: [01:11:17] Um, I just remembered [01:11:19] Christina: [01:11:19] I mean, it’s, it’s [01:11:20] Brett: [01:11:20] literally all I remember. [01:11:22]Christina: [01:11:22] Oh, you had the Lisa Loeb song stay [01:11:24]Brett: [01:11:24] Yeah. [01:11:26] Christina: [01:11:26] because, because Ethan Hawke discovered her or whatever. Um, [01:11:30] Brett: [01:11:30] glasses [01:11:31]Christina: [01:11:31] yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, she was like, she was the it girl. I mean, she was super cute in that video. Uh, yeah. So, um, Yeah, we should watch reality bites if you don’t have it, if you don’t have it, I have it on my Plex and I’ll L I should invite you to have [01:11:47] Brett: [01:11:47] Yeah, we should do that. Sounds good. Should we call it here and save some of these topics for next week? [01:11:54]Christina: [01:11:54] Yeah, I think we should. I think we [01:11:56] Brett: [01:11:56] good. Um, and yeah, I’m [01:12:00] glad we got to do this. We recorded late, uh, due to all of your, uh, Catalina woes, but, um, I’m, I’m glad we pulled it off. [01:12:08]Christina: [01:12:08] I am Sue I’m am. This was a, this is a can talk and I’m actually now really excited about watching, um, how to [01:12:13] Brett: [01:12:13] I hope you enjoy it [01:12:15]Christina: [01:12:15] yeah. Uh, I’m, I’m looking [01:12:17] Brett: [01:12:17] and then get some sleep. [01:12:18]Christina: [01:12:18] Thank you. I will, especially if you know. Computers are stressful, but you also get some sleep. And I hope that I hope that like, while you’re sleeping that your phone doesn’t do weird things. [01:12:30] Cause that would be odd also since this is, I want you to keep a note of this. I don’t know if you dream or not, but since you spent so much time on the Taylor Swift theme park, I am curious if you have dreams about Taylor Swift and or theme [01:12:43] Brett: [01:12:43] I will let you know, I’ll let you know how that goes. [01:12:45]Christina: [01:12:45] All right.

Christina dives deep on Dawson’s Creek and Brett has political debates with family. These two topics are not related. At all. But they make it work in a delicious, hand-crafted episode. Because teamwork. Sponsor Thanks to ExpressVPN for sponsoring today’s show. ExpressVPN lets you tell Netflix, YouTube, Amazon Prime and many others that you’re in a different country, allowing you to watch streaming shows and movies not available in the US (or wherever you happen to be). Visit ExpressVPN.com/systematic to get an additional 3 months for free. Show Links Taylor Swift – folklore k.flay Dawson’s Creek Damien Rice Scrubs Cougar Town Christa Miller Intermittent fasting Some More News Christina’s Desk (00:30:26) Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett and Christina [00:00:00] 02Brett: [00:00:00] welcome to episode 202 of Overtired with Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra how’s it going, Christina? [00:00:07] 01Christina: [00:00:07] going pretty good. How are you, Brett? [00:00:09] 02Brett: [00:00:09] I’m I’m good. I’m figuring out this, uh, uh, episode numbering thing. I think it’s kind of standard practice to like season episode, right? [00:00:18] 01Christina: [00:00:18] yeah, I think so. I think so, but it is weird cause we’re like, Almost officially, we’re not rebooting the show, but we’re rebooting the show. Like it’s still the same show. We’re just going to be consistent again. And so, because really, if we’re being like going by like TV seasons in like American TV, this would be like seasons six or something, [00:00:39]02Brett: [00:00:39] right. [00:00:40] 01Christina: [00:00:40] but [00:00:41] 02Brett: [00:00:41] If it was Netflix TV, we’d be on like season 20. [00:00:44] 01Christina: [00:00:44] Exactly. But you know what I do kind of feel like we’re like British TV. Cause we’re, we’re kind of like a like Sherlock or whatever. Like we come out, you know, like once a year or once every three years. [00:00:55]02Brett: [00:00:55] Yeah. A BBC special, [00:00:58] 01Christina: [00:00:58] Yeah. That’s exactly it. That’s exactly [00:01:00] it [00:01:00] 02Brett: [00:01:00] BBC mini series. [00:01:01] 01Christina: [00:01:01] that’s exactly it. Except now. Like I think that we’re going to be consistent again. So that’s really exciting. [00:01:06] 02Brett: [00:01:06] Yes, this is two weeks in a row. [00:01:08] 01Christina: [00:01:08] I know, [00:01:09] 02Brett: [00:01:09] When was the last time we did two weeks in a row. It’s been years. Yeah. This is great news. Um, and I’m sure that the people have been anxiously waiting to hear what I thought of folklore after a second listen. [00:01:24] 01Christina: [00:01:24] Yes. [00:01:25] 02Brett: [00:01:25] I feel like that should be the central crux of this episode. [00:01:28] We’re probably not going to spend as much time as a Taylor podcast should on it, but that said, I went back in with your kind of doctoral thesis in mind. Um, and I gave it a, another more serious listen and I did come to appreciate it. Uh, she does like the, I didn’t pay enough attention or as much attention as I should have to the lyrics on the first listen. [00:01:55] Cause I was so bored with the music. Like it’s not [00:02:00] my tempo. [00:02:01] 01Christina: [00:02:01] right. [00:02:02] 02Brett: [00:02:02] But the, the kind of the biting lines and the, the, um, axed is still there. And, and I can appreciate that. [00:02:13] 01Christina: [00:02:13] Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, Taylor says fucking out, like it’s kind of amazing and like, it, it, uh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. This, this for our Taylor Swift podcast makes me really relieved and. Yeah, I will. I will agree with you if you were somebody who was not into, you know, the, the more kind of low key kind of vibe, if you’d like the bangers, this is not that album as I, I’m not gonna repeat my doctoral thesis as you, as you framed it. [00:02:41] But I am glad that, that you were still able to find like the core tailors stuff that, that you could appreciate. I will be interested to see if at some point, if people try to do remixes or even if she does some point, because I really do feel like some of these songs could [00:03:00] be turned into like her traditional kind of like pop bangers. [00:03:04] If it just had a different instrumentation, different production. [00:03:09] 02Brett: [00:03:09] What she needs is to have cave play. Do a cover of like exile. Did you, did you, I didn’t send you, I promise to send you a list of K Flay tracks too. Like, uh, an intro to K Flay and I didn’t, did you get a chance to find any on your own. [00:03:29] 01Christina: [00:03:29] I did. I didn’t spend like a lot of time listening to kaflooey, but I’d previously that I think I’d mostly just kind of heard, like I, you know, the song that was on like the, the birds of prey soundtrack. And, uh, but I did listen to some stuff and I like it. I mean, I’m not saying it’s like, it’s not like maybe like my favorite, favorite, but she’s good. [00:03:49] 02Brett: [00:03:49] She is, um, I would recommend blood in the cut as like the intro track. It’s a newer track of hers and it is, [00:04:00] um, it’s got lines like Mick, uh, it’s doll. Something do it soon. It’s too quiet in this room. I need noise. And it speaks to me in a way that more mature grownup lyrics never do. She has a PhD in and I think psychology, uh, she she’s yeah, very smart person, but she does a wonderful job of, um, writing lyrics that speak to the, uh, deeper anxieties and emotions. [00:04:34]In a, in a XD sort of way in the way that I appreciate Taylor, Swift’s less mature axed. [00:04:41] 01Christina: [00:04:41] No. I mean, Taylor Swift is petty as fuck, which I think is both of our favorite parts about her. So yeah, I mean, I think that you can be very smart, but you could also have those like less mature things. Also. I don’t know. I’ve had, I, I. There are all these theories that I’ve read, uh, from like a [00:05:00] psychologists and other people. [00:05:00] And it just sort of makes sense in some ways that, you know, USIC, that you love when you’re a teenager can remain kind of the, the music that you love your whole life. Right? Because it reminds you of that time in your life. It’s kind of it’s nostalgia, but I think it’s also kind of forms, you know, sort of the things that like your brain goes to, to feel a certain way. [00:05:19] So it’s more than just installer. I think it like does something to, you know, like. Your your endorphins or, or to, you know, your, your, your synopsis or whatever. And I think there’s truth in that. And I think that’s why even when I discover newer types of music and other stuff, if it reminds me, if it makes me feel like, you know, when I was 16, I I’m going to love it. [00:05:44] You know? And I, and. In my mind, I still am 16. So, you know, in my mind, I’m, I’m never turning 30. So, uh, that’s, that’s like fine. But I think that for a lot of people like it, because I see this all the time when I go to concerts. Cause now you know that [00:06:00] I’m also becoming an old, you know, everybody around you, you know, at the concerts, you’re like, Holy. [00:06:06] Shit. We are also old now. And sometimes I’m like significantly younger than the other people there. And you’re like, Oh yeah. Okay. They are here because they loved this when, when they were this age, you know, and they still love that band and they still want that moment. And. I don’t know for me, I try to, I guess, hold onto my youth by trying to continue to discuss our newer types of music and other like newer artists just to like, be like, stay with it. [00:06:33] Even if it’s, even if it’s core stuff, still just reminded me of being younger. [00:06:38] 02Brett: [00:06:38] I think that’s almost just a personality type. I think some people are very quick to, I think even by their mid twenties, they’ve already decided what good music was and they’re not interested in new music. I think, I think those are the people that are like new music sucks, everything sounds the same these days and they’re not [00:07:00] open to it. [00:07:00] And I think some people well into their old age. Are willing. And maybe I think everyone, at some point hits a point where they’re just like, I don’t have the emotional capacity to bother finding new music anymore, but I definitely have not at that point. [00:07:16] 01Christina: [00:07:16] No, no. I mean, I think that it, yeah, I think that it is actually, it’s weird. I think it’s harder. And like the Spotify era and with Apple music and everything, cause you have the whole, it’s like the whole fallacy of choice thing, right. Or they’re not a policy choice, the paradox of choice thing. Yeah. The paradox of choice thing. [00:07:30] It’s like you have access to everything it’s overwhelming. And so rather than trying new things, you just go with what, you know, and in to some degree, I think that’s why, so the algorithm. Playlists are bad because on the one hand, like they’re great. Like I love the, my favorites playlist on Apple music every week. [00:07:50] It’s just, it’s fantastic. It’s always just [00:07:53] 02Brett: [00:07:53] Cause it’s your favorite? [00:07:54] 01Christina: [00:07:54] Exactly, but it’s, but it’s like an eclectic, it’s a good, different mix of different songs of different songs each week. [00:08:00] But I’m not discovering new things. Right. And in Spotify, does I have some stuff that it’s recommended to me that I’ve discovered like some bands that I just really love and, and that’s been like a really good, you know, experience or whatever, but, um, I do kind of wish that they would apply those algorithm things to just being like, Hey, here’s brand new shit. [00:08:21] Right? Like. Based on what you’ve listened to when other stuff, and that would, that would at least make the whole paradox of choice thing. Maybe a little bit easier. Cause otherwise, you know, you just have to go based on whatever, some of our, on some of the top playlist and the curated playlist and that’s fine. [00:08:37] Right? Like, I mean, that’s basically modern radio and I’m cool with that. It’s just, um, it, depending on what you are into and what moods you have, like those. Those, you know, like rap caviar or whatever, it might not be like your jam. [00:08:53] 02Brett: [00:08:53] here’s why, here’s why I choose Spotify. Um, it, every day it makes me four playlists [00:09:00] and every one of those platelets usually includes one or two, uh, bands or artists that I either had forgotten about or had never heard of. And it’s a great way. Like it’s a lot of my favorite, most played songs mixed in with related songs, uh, within the same genre that I maybe haven’t heard and their release radar, uh, actually. [00:09:24] Find artists that are similar to ones that I do follow and plays their newest stuff. And I have found all the new music. Yeah. I have discovered in the last few years is either come from Spotify algorithms or by using dang, um, should while watching TV and movies. Uh, and, um, I love a great soundtrack and I’ll, I’ll just turn on auto Shazam where it just like tags, every song it hears. [00:09:52] Uh, when I wa like umbrella Academy, did you watch [00:09:55] 01Christina: [00:09:55] yeah. Yeah. [00:09:57] 02Brett: [00:09:57] to that was just great. I mean, I knew [00:10:00] most of the song, which is probably why I thought it was a great soundtrack, but there were some cool ones in there. [00:10:05] 01Christina: [00:10:05] Yeah, no, I agree. I, I, um, I liked that, that soundtrack a lot too. And yeah, I mean, I actually, I I’m with you. I do a similar thing with Shizam and when I watched shows it’s weird. Um, You know, in the last, like it’s been, you know, more than 20 years now since like, you know, TV producers have, or since music, producers have used TV as a way to kind of get new music out to people and as, as a breaking ground for that. [00:10:29] And in some ways I don’t think that some of the stuff I, like, I don’t feel like new artists and stuff is broken the same way that it was. I almost feel like it’s so competitive that it just has become like another like outlet that. You know, um, and our groups kind of go after. And so it loses some of its resonance. [00:10:46] Whereas I feel like at peak, like, you know, early two thousands TV where you had these amazing music, uh, you know, uh, producers on the show is just like really going deep and finding [00:11:00] stuff. Uh, also I think, you know, I don’t know, it’s just different, but I still, I, with you, I use Shazam and discover stuff that way all the time. [00:11:08] Um, although it’s interesting because I do find. How repetitive some of the songs have become that. And, and, and [00:11:17] 02Brett: [00:11:17] In what way? [00:11:17] 01Christina: [00:11:17] meaning, I will see the same tracks over and over again, across different shows that are even kind of different. I mean, sometimes there’s similar shows, but sometimes they’re, they’re different and it’s just like, even like, A number of years ago, you wouldn’t see that it’d be one of those things. [00:11:35] It’s like, okay. The phrase has been used on Grey’s anatomy. So that’s not going to be used on another show now it’s, it’s like, it doesn’t matter. Even if the exact same song has become, you know, it was. Kind of broken on one thing. It’s like, okay, another show we’ll we’ll license it. Anyway, which is interesting. [00:11:54] Um, we’ve talked about this before, but, and this isn’t on our list of stuff to talk about, but I am kind [00:12:00] of, uh, interested in, in your take on this. Cause we both watch a lot of Netflix and we both like, have we talked last week about how we are rewatching shows and the thing that. You know, God, we finally gotten to the point, at least in the DVD era where it felt like this was fixed, but music rights, man, like fucking music rights being different on shows not lasting. [00:12:26] When you go back to rewatch them is the worst thing in the world. God. [00:12:32] 02Brett: [00:12:32] What do give me an example. I’m not sure what you’re talking [00:12:34] 01Christina: [00:12:34] Okay. Alright. Okay. So my, my, my like example of this always is Dawson’s Creek, right? Okay. Yeah. Make fun of me, roast me whatever, but it had some of the best music period, and I did discover some bands that I still love today and just really good shit. [00:12:48] Like Damien rice is, uh, who I don’t think you’d be into, but he’s one of my favorite artists I heard. Like, I think they played him on Dawson’s Creek years before. It like the album hadn’t even come to the U S [00:13:00] yet. And, and there are other things they changed. So much of the music on the DVD releases because they didn’t want pay for the rights and they didn’t have the contracts written in such a way so that, you know, the, the, the music licenses would extend to the physical media releases. [00:13:18] So the first season had all the original music, and then in subsequent years they had to cut so much of it. The, I don’t want to wait, like Paula Cole song, like the theme song, like the defining thing of that show. Is not in the DVD releases and it’s also not in the streaming releases and the streaming releases it’s even worse because the first season on DVD at least had all the original music, they replaced it, um, for the streaming stuff, uh, you know, versus what was on the DVD. [00:13:45] And so I spent, uh, I spent many, many, like, I mean, it was, it was a it was a multiyear process to track that down. But I was, I had to find. Somebody [00:14:00] basically in France, and this was probably six or seven years ago at this point who had amassed collection of every episode of Dawson’s Creek with the original music in like high enough quality that it wasn’t bad. [00:14:13] So some of it was, you know, um, It was basically usually like, you know, kind of like expedited or, you know, if that had been available, uh, although by the time that show went off the air issue, six, four, really wasn’t a thing. So talking like ABI files, whatever, but usually like internet, you know, downloads or, you know, like high quality captures from, you know, the late nineties, early two thousands. [00:14:36] Of the show. Um, so these weren’t like, like VHS, uh, you know, transfers. These were usually captured from broadcast and then, and then digitized, um, Like I had to find somebody who had a collection of every episode with the original music and it’s like, you know, 40 or 50 gigabytes and I’ve got it backed up multiple places. [00:14:57] But yeah, we was a thing. Like I found this guy in France and he [00:15:00] had actually, you’re the one who told him about this thing. Remember that, that, that hard drive that they sold, that you could share it with other people, like it would share some of your bandwidth where it would basically like live online. [00:15:12] And it was like a hard drive that also was kind of a Dropbox thing. Okay. So he had one of those and he was in [00:15:21] 02Brett: [00:15:21] was that called? [00:15:22] 01Christina: [00:15:22] What was that called? [00:15:23]02Brett: [00:15:23] Well, not the transporter. [00:15:26] 01Christina: [00:15:26] That’s exactly [00:15:26] 02Brett: [00:15:26] Was it? [00:15:27] 01Christina: [00:15:27] Yes, it was the transport. So he had one of those, but he was in France and his internet connection. Wasn’t great. And this is like 50 gigabytes and I’m, you know, in New York. And so that the pings or whatever bad. So I was connected to his Transporter, but it took forever to get that download. [00:15:43] I think I like ended up pay palling him like a hundred bucks or something, you know, just because I like wanted to help. Yeah. Then I think like we might’ve made a torrent, but yeah, it isn’t widely available. Like it’s one of those things that even. I probably should put it on Usenet or something because I would, I would like more of the public to have [00:16:00] access to, but anyway, it was, it was a, uh, an exhaustive process to find it. [00:16:04] And also like, um, you know, I, I paid money for this after I’ve already bought the entire series, not just on DVD, but I also bought the blue Ray because it was super cheap or whatever. And, or actually, no, not the Blueray, they rerelease the whole thing that way, but I also have it on, on iTunes or whatever with the shitty, you know, music inserts and, um, Anyway, like it was this, this ridiculous process, but I can’t watch the show with the wrong music and scrubs, which is a show that I’ve started rewatching because I really loved scrubs and it holds up. [00:16:37] And that’s another one where it has like the best music, the, the show creator, bill Lawrence and his wife, uh, Krista Miller, um, picked a lot of the music, his wife in particular. And she was also, um, uh, an actress on the show. And she’s also on, um, um, Uh, his other show, um, what was the one with, uh, Cougar town? [00:16:57] Um, [00:16:58] 02Brett: [00:16:58] I’m watching that [00:16:59] 01Christina: [00:16:59] Yeah. Yeah, [00:17:00] yeah, yeah. Okay. So, so she’s, she’s like the best friend, um, kind of caustic once. Okay. So she’s great. So she picked a lot of the music, so, so she pitch a lot of the music for scrubs and actually for coop, for Cougar town as well. And like Josh, not Josh, Zach Braff always got a lot of credit for the music. [00:17:16] And he certainly played a role because he had like similar music sensibilities. And he obviously did like the garden state soundtrack and stuff, but like, it was really like Krista Miller who. Picked a lot of that stuff. And the music is just fantastic and Disney did pay for the rights for DVD. So if you have the DVD release scrubs, um, there are a couple of like missing things. [00:17:38] Like I think that guided by voices wouldn’t give the right for one song in season one. And there is like maybe one or two other examples. And in that case, like they knew it and they picked really good. Substitutions, like, not as good as hold on hope, but a good substitution and you know, it’s fine. But when [00:18:00] it came time to put it on Netflix or Hulu or whatever, they didn’t pay for it like they did for, I think maybe a certain period of time. [00:18:07] And then after a certain period of time, they’re like, yeah, we’re not paying for this anymore. So if you watch scrubs on streaming, It loses the original music. Now, if you buy it on iTunes, it has it. But, uh, you know, if you’re watching it on streaming, the music has been changed. And at this point, the way it’s been changed, it hasn’t been done by the producers who, you know, at least when they had to do like the, the couple of minor changes in season one, like when that came out on DVD, like 15 years ago, um, He like shows a replacement that would fit in this case. [00:18:41] It’s just like people using, you know, whatever sort of generic music they can get. It’s it’s not music. I mean, it has voices in it, but it’s like not bands that you would know or, or anything like that. It’s just like going through, you know, it’s just, it’s just penny pinchers being like, okay, we’re just going to insert these things in the cues. [00:18:58] And, you know, it takes [00:19:00] you out of it cause you know, the editing, the dubbing on that, isn’t perfect. And so you can sometimes hear the different, you know, outros or whatever in different things. And, um, and I dunno, it just ruins the whole show, like to go back and watch it that way. So it makes me grateful that I have all the DVDs and that, you know, use that and other things for me to get digitized copies of my DVDs faster than it would be for me to manually rip them. [00:19:22] You [00:19:23] 02Brett: [00:19:23] Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. But in a case like Dawson’s Creek, how often are you watching Dawson’s Creek? Why can’t this just exist as a, a good memory and not a multiyear process of tracking down in a manner, very akin to people who demand vinyl releases of, of their favorite bands and they won’t accept anything. [00:19:47] That isn’t the original. They don’t want to hear any remastered tracks. Everything has to be the way it was originally. What, why is that an obsession for you? Tell us more. [00:19:58] 01Christina: [00:19:58] okay. [00:20:00] Because not that I’m going to rewatch it all the time, of course. But because if I do want to see an episode or if I do want to see something, the minute that the song queue is wrong, because. Dawson’s Creek in particular, uh, all those scrubs too, but like Dawson’s Creek in particular is a show that I watched so many times as a kid, like a teenager, like I would, you know, record every episode and then I watch it and, you know, I know those cues, I know those moments. [00:20:25] And so the minute. That they don’t have the right musical cue in like a key scene, like, and, and like, uh, or song that like even songs that were on the damn soundtrack, right? Like, I mean, that’s what really got me with the DVD releases. I was like, Sony, you, you paid for this song for the soundtracks that you put out and you. [00:20:44] Put a replacement on the DVD release. Cause it didn’t sell as well as you wanted or whatever, like the sucks. So for me, it just completely takes me out of the show and I can’t even enjoy if I wanted to rewatch it. Like Dawson’s Creek, I’m obviously gonna watch less than something like scrubs, but scrubs is like a good comedy. [00:20:59] It’s a good [00:21:00] thing to tune in and see. And even in syndication now, they. Have, you know, changed the music. And so if you just have it on as like background or something, like it sucks. Like I I’m happy that the OC, which has also some of the best music ever and, and the, the, the music supervisor on that is she did Roswell and she did Buffy and she did Grey’s anatomy and she did all the Shonda Rhimes shows and she’s like, I interviewed her when I was in college, she was very kind to me to agree, to talk to me about like her role as a music supervisor and breaking bands and stuff. [00:21:33] She’s like a master, but like the OC, you know, like broke big indie bands and like was legitimately like, had like actual impact on the, on the top. You know, on billboard and stuff. Um, they at least cause that’s was on Hulu and now it’s on HBO, max. Yeah. They at least did not like lose any of the music. Yeah. [00:21:53] Warner brothers is paying for it. They had it on, they had it by the time that show was out, DVDs were already a thing. So it was [00:22:00] written into the contracts. But you know, at some point if like the, the people at, at Warner media. Decide, they don’t want to pay, you know, for death cab for cutie anymore or, or whatever, like, you know, or journey, like, you know, you could see that going away and that’s just, I don’t know. [00:22:16] That’s, it’s shitty. It’s just, I mean, I don’t know, like, did you ever watch w KRP in Cincinnati? [00:22:23] 02Brett: [00:22:23] No. [00:22:23] 01Christina: [00:22:23] Okay. So I obviously like it ended, I think before I was born, but you know, it was, it takes place in like a seventies radio station. And so they played a lot of like real, like classic rock music and as a comedy sitcom and in syndication again, because it was a different time in the eighties, nineties, and people didn’t realize how much money they could make off of the licensing shit. [00:22:46]The original music was there, but when they, it was held up on release for, for home media and for streaming for like, Years and years and years, and years and years. And by the time it finally came out, you know, with the sound like stuff, just [00:23:00] for people who’d remember the show, it was ruined. The wonder years was another one where I think Time-Life did finally do a DVD release of the wonder years. [00:23:08] Cause you know, they used the Beatles. Like they had like. A big, a much bigger production budget, and then what you would get for like a primetime show today. And they, you know, had rights and use like the biggest, like, you know, essential songs from like the sixties and stuff on that show. And Time-Life got the rights for most of it for their home DVD release, but I don’t even think they were able to get everything. [00:23:32] And, and certainly when the wonder years has been on various streaming things, you don’t hear the Beatles and. You know, like it, I don’t know, it just takes you out of it. Um, that’s always like more classic shows, but even like, I could imagine, like if I was rewatching. Like the office didn’t really use, uh, popular music and community, I guess didn’t either, but you know, but you’re watching those things and it goes away. [00:23:53] Like, that’s just, it, it makes me sad, not just for me, if I want to rewatch it. Cause it will take me out of the show, [00:24:00] but it also makes me sad for like anybody who’s discovering it. Cause they don’t, they don’t get the, they don’t get the experience that the producers want it. They don’t get the all Toral intent. [00:24:09] 02Brett: [00:24:09] And then, and then you get to be like you kids wouldn’t understand. You don’t understand where this came from and what this means. I, we need a name for these rants. You, you go on, we need like a clever, uh, trademark, uh, if anyone’s listening and has a great idea for a catchy name for a Christina deep dive, uh, please, please write in w we’ll make a segment out of it. [00:24:38]01Christina: [00:24:38] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, I’m, I’m, I’m off my high horse on that, but yeah, [00:24:44] 02Brett: [00:24:44] Do you keep a clean desk? [00:24:46]01Christina: [00:24:46] no. [00:24:47] 02Brett: [00:24:47] Yeah, me either. I just, I just cleaned my desk today and it feels very different, but I can’t say it feels better. [00:24:55] 01Christina: [00:24:55] yeah. Yeah, no, my desk. Okay. So I’m not going to turn this into a rant but [00:25:00] it is. It is a real problem. It is. No, but no, but this is becoming a legitimate problem. Okay. So I ordered a brand new 5k iMac, and it has arrived. It is vesa. It’s the one that just has the vesa mount. It doesn’t have this. Stand the issue is my vesa. [00:25:14] Um, a stand that I’m going to have to use an interim has not arrived yet, or actually supposed to come in today. So I will be packing up my, um, old, iMac and then setting up the new one. The issue is the whole reason I got it is because I just ordered a new standing desk so that I hate my current desk. [00:25:32] I’ve had it for three years. It’s just one of those, like, Ikea ones it’s terrible because I can’t Mount anything to it because of the way that the drawers work. Like it becomes too thick for me to Mount stuff. It’s just, it’s a terrible desk. I’ve hated it the whole time. I’ve had it to be totally honest. [00:25:47] Um, but my office it’s messy in a way that like, It’s a problem because my perfectionism, and to a smaller extent, I would say [00:26:00] maybe like my OCD, whatever is such a way that like, I become overwhelmed with the, how bad it is that I can’t do anything about it. But now it’s at this place where I’m going to have to spend, I’m going to, I have to like work to get myself into an emotional place where it’s going to take me. [00:26:16] A couple of days to completely clean out my office. Cause I’m just got boxes and shit everywhere. And you know, like, I’m just going to have to clean it and either get rid of separate or find other things to do, because I need to get this desk out. And I ordered this new standing desk, which is bigger, like significantly bigger. [00:26:35] And I’ve got, I now have a deadline. Well, I should have today. I ordered a very expensive Herman Miller chair that is not even in my office yet. Cause I can’t get it in my office. And I, um, Order the standing desk and that will ship and should be here, you know, uh, likely in a week, but I paid for somebody to come install it. [00:26:56] And the reason I’m doing that is because I’m not gonna be able to lift it [00:27:00] myself and grant has, is, um, has a. Some, um, like he has like a herniated disc and, and, uh, he has to take everything easy for like the next, like six to eight weeks. And so I can’t ask him to help me lift, you know, something that’s probably like, it’s like, it’s like a, a, a 72 by 30 desk and it’s. [00:27:20] You know, probably ways. I don’t know, I’m thinking 150 pounds. Um, and so like, even if I like, even if I could get the weight, I wouldn’t be able to like, just because that’s just too big for me to do. So I ha I paid four, I paid the $200 or whatever for the installation service and how that works is that they’ll track the FedEx thing. [00:27:38] And then once it arrives and I ensure that nothing’s broken, then the installers will come over and install it. So. My office has to be cleaned by the time that happens. Like it has to not just be clean. It has to be empty. So. No, my desk currently, it’s so terrible. Um, that I wrote like relay FM, asked me to write a desk thing for their, um, member. [00:28:00] [00:28:00] And I included a photo and the photo I included even show the horror of it. And I just wrote like a very like direct, like, yup. I am a trash person with a messy desk and this is my thing. And it was like, people really liked it. People responded well to it, but it was. Complete like one 80. Cause almost everybody else’s like desk setup, photos are like immaculate and are to me completely. [00:28:23] Like I don’t actually believe that people work and live that way. [00:28:26]02Brett: [00:28:26] I do believe that like, when I, when it comes to like minimalist workspaces, I don’t think anyone actually can work that way, but a neat desk. I like, I come from a family. With, like my dad’s an engineer. He’s very, uh, very, uh, tidy engineer. And my mom keeps everything. My mom has the, like a place for everything and everything that’s placed mantra. [00:28:50] And, um, like I grew up always in trouble because ADHD kids tend to be messy and they don’t do well with cleaning the room. So I was [00:29:00] always in trouble and once I was free to make my own decisions, I decided I like messy. And I’m not a slob. Like I keep my clothes clean. I take regular showers. I just don’t mind clutter. [00:29:14] And, and I rarely it’s, it’s rare that I can’t find something I’m looking [00:29:20] 01Christina: [00:29:20] You know where it [00:29:21] 02Brett: [00:29:21] very, yeah, I’m good at keeping track of stuff, which is not characteristic of ADHD. People week do tend to lose things pretty often, but I’ve developed coping mechanisms over a lifetime of this. I can almost always, I actually used to have an Evernote notebook where I would take pictures of stuff that I frequently lost and then write down where I put it every time using like the iPhone app. [00:29:45] I would like be like, this is now in the top drawer of the living room, a Curio cabinet or whatever. And, uh, that, that didn’t, I didn’t stick with that for long. Anyway, I, I have no problem, a cluttered desk. I really [00:30:00] don’t. And you’re right. People don’t show this enough. Um, people are very ashamed of their messes. [00:30:08] And so all you see are these pristine desktops with not even a cup of coffee on them, unless it’s a, an artisan cup of coffee there for effect, but I can, I could do with some more honest, a workspace photos. [00:30:25] 01Christina: [00:30:25] Yeah. Yeah. I’m going to post in our equip documents. We can put it in our show notes. I’m going to post the photo that I sent into relay. And again, this was the, this was the photo that made it look not as terrible, um, as it actually was. [00:30:41] 02Brett: [00:30:41] Yeah. That’s, that’s almost exactly what my I’m looking at. It, that’s almost exactly what my desk looks [00:30:46] 01Christina: [00:30:46] exactly. And, and, but the people were kind of like, Oh my God, or whatever. And I wound up sending some other photos of just like the other half of my office and some other things to people. Cause people were roasting me on Twitter and I was like, that’s fine. But no, what happened was. You know, they gave me a couple of weeks to do this. [00:31:00] [00:30:59] Like, Hey, can you, you know, do it right up at your desk and you’re set up and whatever I was like, yeah, sure. And in my mind, I was like, Oh, well, this’ll give me encouragement to actually fix and clean my desk and, and, you know, look fake like everyone else. And then of course the time comes. And that does not happen. [00:31:15] And it’s not a situation. Like I have an actual deadline now with the installers because I’ve paid money and people are coming to my house. And so it’s, it’s a different thing. I’m also like, you know, I’ve just spent $5,000 or $4,000 on, um, a law on a computer that, you know, one of the reasons I got the configuration I got is that I want it mounted, you know, um, on my desk. [00:31:38] And I want to have my second monitor, um, that I bought during quarantine, like on my desk too. And so, um, but it’s going to actually get taken care of, even if I have to hire someone to come and do stuff that it’s getting taken care of, but I, uh, the way I kind of rationalize it, I was just like, you know what, [00:32:00] like, I’m just going to read like the first paragraph of what I wrote. [00:32:03] I was like, so my office and by extension, my desk are a dumpster fire. When Steven gave me this assignment a few weeks ago, I’d hoped that it would offer me some sort of incentive to clean things up. It did not rather than scar you all. I’ve taken some photos that hide my office mess as well as I can. [00:32:18] While also allowing you to laugh. At slash with me, I imagine my office will be cleaned right around the time I’m allowed back into my corporate office. And, and, and that’s kind of true, but yeah, but I, I kind of like, you know, it was just one of those things that I was just like, fuck it. Like, I have a feeling that a lot more people’s desks look like yours and mine then like the ones that are, um, all over, like Instagram or Pinterest or Reddit or whatever. [00:32:43] 02Brett: [00:32:43] Sure. I will say that I keep all of my mess underneath my camera. So when I have to video chat or zoom, Or, uh, anything that involves my webcam, my office actually looks pretty neat. I have some guitars hanging [00:33:00] on the wall, a tidy little moon pod over in the corner where I nest, uh, and you can see the, like the edge of a keyboard. [00:33:07] You can see the edge of my, my walking desk treadmill, but if you pan down. It’s a jungle of cables and, and input devices, faces, and adapters and coffee mugs and bottles of medication. Yeah, this is a mess. I’m looking at a mess right now. [00:33:28] 01Christina: [00:33:28] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, other than seeing some boxes in the background, like that’s what you see, you see some boxes when I have my webcam on, or my actually my. Overpay the Sony that I paid too much money. Yeah. The camera is worth the money. I just didn’t need that type of camera for what’s. I primarily uses webcam, but anyway, um, That, uh, like, you know, the background and stuff mostly just kind of see boxes. [00:33:52] And so you can kind of say, Oh, it’s whatever, like the worst part. Cause it is pretty terrible is hidden. Um, and for a [00:34:00] while at first, the background was actually pretty clean. And now as this, this, this, you know, quarantine stuff has just gone on longer and longer. I’ve just cared less and less. It’s just kind of been like one of those, like the levels in which I like and try to hide from the world, my own. [00:34:16] Like problems are, I’m just like, do not care, but, uh, well, it’s so weird though. I was the neatest kid. Yeah. Like. I dunno, it’s a weird thing. I, um, I wasn’t diagnosed with the ADHD really until college. I went on medicine for it in high school, but that was primarily at the time, the way it was kind of described was it was, they gave me the ADHD medicine to counteract some of the sleepy, the side effects that I had from my antidepressants. [00:34:46] And also because, um, we found that it helped with my anxiety. But I was actually formally diagnosed in college. They’re like, no, you’re ADHD. You’re just like high functioning. But as a kid, not [00:35:00] only was I neat, I was like obsessive compulsive. Neat. Like if, you know, if a shoelace was. You know, visible outside of the drawer, if everything wasn’t put back, like exactly in its box. [00:35:13] And although I am still that way, right. Like electronics, other things. Like I keep the boxes of shit, you know, I usually put it back where that is. And like, you know, but like, you know, every toy, like even when I play with my friends, like I was the annoying kid who like, we weren’t allowed to take out another toy until we put the other one away and, you know, and, and everything was like had its place and everything was perfect. [00:35:33] And then when. It’s like, it was really when I hit puberty and I hit puberty. I’m like, like the, like the physical puberty or whatever, like late, you know, when I was like 15, she and 16. And when that happened, yeah, it’s in a lot of ways. It’s like something changed in my, in my brain and I became messy. Like, I just became messy and it did, I do for the most part. [00:35:55] Yeah. Know where everything is. And there are parts of my mess that can be organized. [00:36:00] Like if I have cans, they’re usually stacked up in like a very intricate way. And like, I usually know exactly where something is, but yeah, I just, um, like I became like the very typical, like ADHD person who was just like, Messy as fuck. [00:36:17] And it’s a problem because I do actually work a lot better in, in neatness and with structure. Yeah. [00:36:23] 02Brett: [00:36:23] I see. I don’t think I do, but do you get angry? If someone messes with your mess? [00:36:28] 01Christina: [00:36:28] Yes. [00:36:29] 02Brett: [00:36:29] I can. Nobody is allowed to help me clean. Like if I’m going to clean fine out, I’ll buckle down, grit my teeth and I’ll clean. Or now tidy everything up and I’ll put everything in that fabled place for everything. [00:36:44] And that’s fine. But if anyone, while I’m gone thinks, Oh, I’m going to tidy up for him. He’ll appreciate that wrong. I will not appreciate that. I will be angry with you and I will not be able to control my rage. It’s not a [00:37:00] rational thing. Um, I’m not like actually, like, I don’t hate you as a person for doing that. [00:37:07] Um, I’m not gonna retaliate by like messing up something of yours. I just, I have this very deep seated reaction to any knowing that anyone touched my, my precious mess. [00:37:21] 01Christina: [00:37:21] Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know what it is, it’s because you have the freaking Evernote thing of where everything goes and you know, like what it is, and I’m the same way. It’s like, I know. Where all of my terrible, like, things are like, I at least know where to find it. Like if I can get it, like at this point, Ashley would take help with my office because it’s so cluttered with boxes and it’s not like I want to, like, I want to like be clear, like, it’s not like. [00:37:44] I know there isn’t food or anything like that, that it’s, it’s mostly, it’s just like boxes of shit that I’ve ordered. And it’s just, you know, and it’s just like physical taken up so much space, but it, uh, so I would probably accept help in this, in this regard, but yeah, I’ve had this where, you know, we’ve hired people to come in [00:38:00] and clean and whatnot. [00:38:00] I’ve been very appreciative of what they’ve done, pay them a lot of money. And then I’m like, I have no idea where any of this stuff is. I have no idea where stuff is and I’ve lost stuff. And then I spend. So much time searching for it that I get, like create a mess again. So yeah, I’m the same way. I’m like, I need to be the one to do it. [00:38:14] It also feels like it’s probably a little bit of a control thing. I don’t know. It’s irrational. Like you said, where like, people think they’re doing you a favor and they don’t, but, um, yeah, we, um, We, we, we had a housekeeper in, in New York and she was great and we’ve tried a number of different people in Seattle, and it’s just, it’s been hard for us to find somebody that can be kind of reliable and consistent. [00:38:38] And also isn’t frankly like an outsized amount of money for. You know, what would be like? Cause once you have kind of a consistent regime, like, it shouldn’t be that much, you know, just coming in with clean the kitchen and maybe, you know, help with the laundry or whatever, um, you know, uh, clean the bathrooms or whatever. [00:38:55] But, um, so we’ve, we’ve struggled in Seattle to like find [00:39:00] somebody for that. And also there was a, you know, grant was unemployed for a long time. And so, you know, it, wasn’t also like an economical thing, but we were going to have to get back. On that, because I do function better with, um, with things neat, but it’s hard for me. [00:39:15] Like usually once I get it to a place where it’s good. I can keep it that way for a while. It doesn’t mean that it’ll all be perfect, but I can keep it relatively like in place. But the problem is, is that now at least for me, with my office, it has gone to the place where it’s not messy. It’s like untenable, like, you know, like I, like I said, I spent $1,500 on a chair that I, I’m not sitting in because I can’t get it in my office. [00:39:38] That’s a problem. [00:39:40] 02Brett: [00:39:40] Yeah, that’s problematic. I CA I’m not that bad. [00:39:44] 01Christina: [00:39:44] Yeah. [00:39:46] 02Brett: [00:39:46] Alright. You have my sympathy though. [00:39:47] 01Christina: [00:39:47] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, and yeah, I mean, I think we can all kind of, you’ve probably been a place where you can like get to that point. And I, my, my thing is, is that just, I should have stepped in earlier and stopped it, but where, you know, [00:40:00] again, like the whole, I know where it is. And also frankly, like the anxiety around, like, if it’s like to be perfect or I don’t have the time to do this, or this is frankly overwhelming to me and whatever just keeps putting it off and putting it off. [00:40:10] And now it’s at the point where I’m just like, okay, I’m going to have to. Like spin however much time it takes and fix this. [00:40:17]02Brett: [00:40:17] And the thing. Aye. Aye. I can’t do house cleaners because I feel the need to clean before the house cleaner comes and it just feels like such a waste of money. The only thing it does is encourage it, like forces me to clean myself and then I should just pay someone to threaten me, to threaten, to come clean my [00:40:39] 01Christina: [00:40:39] Oh, yeah, that’s a good idea. That’s a good idea. Yeah. You know what? I used to be that way with house cleaners. And again, I think it’s kind of like me with both the, you know, my camera when I’m on video calls and like letting people see the boxes and also like showing like, uh, you know, part of my desk or whatever, in the really newsletter at a certain point, I was just like, yup. [00:40:59] Don’t [00:41:00] care. I don’t know it was, it was a weird, like mental thing for me. I think that when we finally got, got something in New York, it’s like, when you’ve had people come in and they like, see that your house is messy and that it’s problematic. And you’re like, all right, you know, I am paying you like at a certain point. [00:41:17] Maybe this was group. Maybe it’s a good, bad thing. I don’t know. Cause I grew up like, my mom is insanely neat. Like my, my, my parents house is immaculate. It is showroom quality. My mom will be the plaque person where like, she’ll say it’s such a mess when it’s perfect, you know, but she, you know, has like, will vacuum all the time. [00:41:32] And like when [00:41:33] 02Brett: [00:41:33] Sorry about the mess. Excuse the [00:41:35] 01Christina: [00:41:35] exactly, [00:41:36] 02Brett: [00:41:36] my pristine home. [00:41:38] 01Christina: [00:41:38] And she’s not seeing it as a flex. Like I think she really does see that, like there are imperfections and everybody else is like, what the hell are you talking about? And, um, you know, but like, you know, when the, the hardwood floors we had in the house that I grew up in. [00:41:52] My childhood home. Um, like she would, she would have like the wool kind of like buffers and like the wax she’d be like wax the hardwood floors and like all that [00:42:00] stuff. And the, the, the one that and their, their new house, um, you know, have like sealants or whatever if they don’t do that. But it’s, yeah, like the house is, is Steen. [00:42:08] And so, but she, we, we did have a maid when I was, when I was really little for a bit. And it was the same thing. My mom like would always clean for the maid and then she would get mad because the, the maid wouldn’t do. Things the way that she wanted, you know, so it was really one of those things, like, why are you paying for this? [00:42:24] This is not helping you in any way, but I’ve like gone to a thing. I think, cause I was raised that way. It was like, Oh, you know, it’ll be embarrassing to people. See your house like this, and now I’m like, I’m paying you. And I don’t like I got I’m at the point where I’m kind of like, I’m sure you were judging me and thinking all kinds of things about me. [00:42:42] And I’m kind of at the point where I’m like, I kind of don’t care, you know? Like, I don’t need to be friends with you. I don’t need to have anything else, like kind of don’t care. Like this is, you know, especially if you’re paying somebody like $50 an hour or whatever, I’m, I’m kind of okay with just being like, I’m kind of like fine. [00:42:58] 02Brett: [00:42:58] My girlfriend [00:43:00] definitely carries a lot more shame about the tidiness of the house than I do, because like the amount of effort it takes to prepare the house for company back when we used to have company, um, [00:43:14] 01Christina: [00:43:14] those days, [00:43:15] 02Brett: [00:43:15] It was super stressful to the point where I, I don’t even like inviting people over because that meant, that meant like four hours of house cleaning. [00:43:24] And I’m like, they’re my friends. They know me, they know me better than to think I live in a clean house. Um, so I, I don’t, I don’t, I do like, it was the, the shame of it was ingrained in me as a kid, but I have let go of a lot of that. Um, I can’t say it doesn’t exist at all. [00:43:46] But, um, speaking of things we weren’t talking about, uh, we have, uh, we have a sponsor this week. We actually, I could have transitioned to this at multiple points previously in our conversation. [00:43:59] 01Christina: [00:43:59] it [00:44:00] would have naturally been a really good segue, but this, it still works. [00:44:04] 02Brett: [00:44:04] So our sponsor this week is express VPN, uh, which. Like all VPNs, lets you choose where you are. Um, appearing to come from, which has the major benefit and express VPN is perfect for this, uh, of allowing you to tell services like Netflix and Hulu and. I BBC that you’re coming from a country that you’re not actually in allowing you to view thousands of streaming movies and TV shows that you wouldn’t be able to otherwise, uh, express VPN works for this, especially well, because it’s blazing fast, uh, you can stream and without with no buffering of anything. [00:44:49] Assuming you have a decent internet connection to start with, but it’s super simple to use you just fire up the express VPN app. You change your location and hit connect, and then you refresh [00:45:00] the page and the show or the movie you want to watch just magically appears. Um, we, we talked about BBC. Um, I, I have this weird relationship with British comedy where I find it hilarious, but also uncomfortable. [00:45:15] 01Christina: [00:45:15] yes. [00:45:17] 02Brett: [00:45:17] And. Every once in a while though, I’m in the perfect mood for that. And Netflix does not have copies of one of my favorite high school shows a black adder. So with express VPN, I can actually tell Netflix I’m in the UK where they do have black adder and I get to watch it. And I’ve heard, I’ve heard tell Christina that you actually use it for almost the, the reverse purpose. [00:45:45] 01Christina: [00:45:45] Yeah. Yes. So, um, I’ve been a express, a pain, uh, express VPN user for over a year. And in olden times, when I used to travel all the time, it would be the way that I would be able to connect to [00:46:00] us streaming services. In foreign countries. So like I was in India and I was able to watch the game of Thrones finale and I didn’t want to miss it, even though it wasn’t that good. [00:46:11] And the way that it worked, uh, at the HBO, in the hotel in India, didn’t carry it. And I tried to find like Indian streaming services that had it and I would have paid, but you needed an Indian bank account. I’m like, that was going to be a whole thing where I couldn’t do it. And so, yeah, I use, I use express VPN and I was able to log in to HBO, uh, whatever they called it then and, and watch it. [00:46:35] And it was also, it was actually interesting. I was in Paris when Disney plus launched and, um, it didn’t launch in Europe. It launched in the U S and, and I, but I was in Paris when it launched and I wanted to watch some stuff and sure enough express VPN. Work perfectly from Paris also had a, we’ve also had instances where like we were in, um, I was trying to get access to a show for a friend of mine when [00:47:00] we were in Iceland. [00:47:00] She wanted to watch something like, kind of for, for comfort and not Iceland, Finland w Washington for comfort. And yeah, once again, like express VPN, like I was able to connect to Hulu so that she could watch it. So, yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s, it is really good if you want to find stuff that, you know, cause every. [00:47:18] Service has different streaming agreements in different countries. And, and there’s some stuff like, especially if you can find like stuff that’s available in Canada, that’s where you’re going to have like built this, the slowest amount of latency, um, you know, depending on where you live in, in your connection. [00:47:31] And we especially be in works perfectly. Uh, but yeah, also, you know, the UK, you do it in other things. Um, it’s, it’s great. I’ve, I’ve been a big fan and, and happy pain user, like I said, for over a year and a highly recommended. [00:47:47] 02Brett: [00:47:47] Almost a hundred different countries that you can choose from. Um, and if you use our link right now at express vpn.com/overtired, you can get an extra three months of express DPN [00:48:00] for free. So check out Xpress, vpn.com/overtired, um, and thanks to express VPN for supporting this delight of a show. [00:48:11] 01Christina: [00:48:11] thank you. [00:48:13]02Brett: [00:48:13] all right, so we have a weird list of stuff. [00:48:17] I, I, my let’s let’s do a health [00:48:21] 01Christina: [00:48:21] Yeah, look, look, look, let’s do it. Christina and Brett, a health corner update. How are you doing with the, with stuff, Brett? [00:48:28] 02Brett: [00:48:28] I so about, I dunno, it’s been like four months now, five months, maybe. I, I quit nicotine. I’d been, I had quit vaping years ago now and had been using patches and lozenges for quite some time. And I quit and I didn’t no for sure that it was related, but you may recall that several years ago I lost 70 pounds. [00:49:00] [00:48:59] When I quit nicotine almost immediately within the course of 30 days with no diet changes, no exercise changes. I gained almost 30 pounds [00:49:09] 01Christina: [00:49:09] my God. [00:49:10] 02Brett: [00:49:10] and it was frightening. And I went to the doctor and there [00:49:15] 01Christina: [00:49:15] W was that the only, like you didn’t have any medication changes, [00:49:18] 02Brett: [00:49:18] no, no medication changes. The only thing that changed was trying to quit nicotine. So obviously I went back on nicotine. So now I have two problems I’m overweight and addicted to nicotine. Um, [00:49:30] 01Christina: [00:49:30] say? [00:49:31] 02Brett: [00:49:31] the doctor said that my metabolism had just shifted and, uh, like I’ve tried in the, in the succeeding months too. [00:49:41] Uh, to diet, to exercise more and nothing will change my weight. Even a pound. Like my weight is just stuck at two 20 and it does not fluctuate, no matter how good or how bad I am based on like someone’s idea of like proper diet and everything. [00:50:00] Cause I eat healthy to begin with. So for me, like calorie restriction is it there’s not much left to eat. [00:50:07] If I, if I restrict calories [00:50:09] 01Christina: [00:50:09] Yeah. Well, and in some ways I think that, I mean, and I don’t know, it depends on how much you’re eating or whatever, but like, in some ways it can have the negative impact. Like if you restrict too much, then your body goes into starvation mode and starts to like, you know, it doesn’t burn anything. So it has the, the inverse. [00:50:24] 02Brett: [00:50:24] nutrition is fun. So then I read about intermittent fasting and what I decided to try it partly to see if it could affect my weight and partly to see. Uh, how it affected my energy levels and I’ve been doing it now for a couple of weeks. I eat all of my meals between 1:00 PM and 9:00 PM, and then do not eat coffee, but no food, uh, for the rest of the day. [00:50:57] Uh, which really, for me just means [00:51:00] skipping breakfast, which, uh, I like breakfast food, but I have no need to eat it at a certain time of day. Um, so it’s been pretty easy. I have actually lost a couple, a couple of pounds, like not any like significant sudden improvement, but I’ve lost two pounds and it’s stayed off. [00:51:21] So the scales, no, two 18, um, which is still, I was two 65 years back. So two 18 is still, I’m not like back where I was or [00:51:34] 01Christina: [00:51:34] No, no, no, no, but it’s still to go to like, to gain 30 pounds almost overnight. I mean, not, it’s not, that’s not a small yeah, totally. And that has to be, I mean, cause you worked so hard. I mean, you changed your whole lifestyle. Like you, you started doing yoga, like your health improved in every level, like, and [00:51:51] 02Brett: [00:51:51] a divorced actually. I think those might’ve been related, but, um, But it has the intermittent fasting has helped my energy level. [00:52:00] Um, my focus in the mornings is it’s really good. Uh, there’s occasionally between noon and one, I’ll start thinking about lunch and then all I can think about is lunch. [00:52:13] And that gets that that is not productive. I can’t focus on other things then, but that is maybe one out of every seven days that happens. And for the most part, actually, I’m really liking the mental, the awareness and the energy level. I have. Um, you do get this thing where when you do eat at one, you get like a food fog out of it. But, this seems to be, uh, a reasonable lifestyle change that doesn’t require, like you don’t have to do all the Quito, paleo WeightWatchers stuff. You can eat just regular, healthy food that you enjoy. And it’s just a matter of when [00:53:00] you eat it. It’s a, it’s a, a diet timing instead of a diet. So I’m kind of liking it. [00:53:06] 01Christina: [00:53:06] Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. Um, it’s interesting. Like, I, I honestly, I haven’t ever explicitly done intermittent fasting and at this point my weight is the, the lowest it’s been probably, um, probably in a decade. Um, [00:53:24] 02Brett: [00:53:24] Since your double zero days. [00:53:26] 01Christina: [00:53:26] I mean, I’m back to my double zero days. So, uh, like that that’s, that’s completely back, like to the point where like, my, my problem actually now, especially with like the pandemic stuff is like, I have to like remind myself to eat. [00:53:38] And so I I’ve naturally kind of gone to that place where I might have like one big meal a day. I don’t do intermittent fasting, but I’ve done that. But even like, when I was younger, like my older sister always had this thing, she was always like no carbs after two. And. Uh, and other types of, you know, things that are frankly like, okay, no one listened to me or my sisters, like. [00:53:59] Uh, [00:54:00] advice on, on body, your body image, because it’s completely fucked and warped and messed up in every single way. So like no one take any of my advice around anything for dieting or anything else because my, my body image is, is fucked and, and my older sister’s most certainly is. Yeah. But you know, like there have been things that you would know, like when I was in college and, and I think I gained like 10 pounds. [00:54:20] It was not lot a lot. And, and you have to understand that I was like, 87 pounds when I entered college. So like, it really was nothing, but I was still freaked out by it and I was going to the gym and I was doing, you know, like other stuff, like, it was really what it was puberty thing. It wasn’t like, it was like a hormone thing. [00:54:36] It wasn’t anything else, but it was one of those things. It was like, okay, well, you know, if I, I don’t eat certain foods after certain times, or if you know, you do certain things around this, then. Things will balance out and it certainly works and lots and lots of people do intermittent fasting and people say that it can work really well. [00:54:53] I am curious with, like, with your ADHD meds, does that help with your metabolism or with like [00:55:00] your hunger or through kind of those, um, like the hard times with like that 12 to one. Does that have any impact at all? Or. [00:55:08] 02Brett: [00:55:08] You know, I’m not sure. I haven’t, I haven’t tried doing it without meds. Um, that would be interesting. I do know. I think that, like, this would be way easier if I had cocaine. [00:55:21] 01Christina: [00:55:21] Yeah, [00:55:22] 02Brett: [00:55:22] Um, great appetite suppressant. If you want to take anyone’s diet advice, I recommend, [00:55:28] 01Christina: [00:55:28] Absolutely. [00:55:29] 02Brett: [00:55:29] just a good, a good Coke habit. [00:55:31] 01Christina: [00:55:31] The, the, the cocaine diet is, is, um, it’s, it’s usually, it’s one of those, the doc, [00:55:36] 02Brett: [00:55:36] and effective. [00:55:37] 01Christina: [00:55:37] is proven ineffective doctors. Usually don’t like to recommend it, but it is proven and effective for sure. [00:55:43] 02Brett: [00:55:43] Not out loud anyway, [00:55:45] 01Christina: [00:55:45] Yeah, exactly. They’re they’re [00:55:46] 02Brett: [00:55:46] a wink, wink, and a nudge. No, don’t nobody do cocaine. It’s insidious. Don’t listen to me. Um, I’m bad. Um, but yeah, I’m not sure how I, I think, I think that [00:56:00] if I didn’t have my meds, I probably would think a lot more about food if that’s what you’re asking. And I, I think that’s probably the case. [00:56:09] Yes. [00:56:09]01Christina: [00:56:09] Um, you, you, you, or do you still, do you still, um, drink Soylent? [00:56:14] 02Brett: [00:56:14] Hmm. I have a 12 pack of the, the bottled stuff and I drink it when I’m too lazy to chew anything. There are times I get so into a project that the act of chewing seems too distracting. It’s like that hyper-focus that I get. And that’s when I’ll drink Soylent, which I think really is what it was designed for, for programmers who don’t want to make a meal. [00:56:44] Um, and, and so, yes, I do, but it’s not a regular part of my diet. No. [00:56:51] 01Christina: [00:56:51] yeah, cause grant has, um, you know, his weight has fluctuated. He’d lost a ton of weight and he’d gained some back, which is understandable to everything that’s happened. But one of the things that really [00:57:00] helped him was like, he’s basically just gone on like, Shakes, like as being his kind of like primary, you know, food source and then, and then going more keto with other things because he, um, he binge eats it. [00:57:12] He has some of the other stuff and it just becomes like a habit of, of other things. So, um, you know, he doesn’t do Soylent, but he does, you know, like whatever, some of those, you know, like meal replacement shakes or things are whatever. So I know that that can be helpful, but yeah, no, that’s, that’s interesting. [00:57:28]I’m glad that the intermittent fasting at least so far seems to be, you know, helping some, and I don’t know, maybe it’ll help kickstart things. When I, when I had that thing, when I went off my meds and, and I gained 40 pounds, you know, that was, that was hard. And I’m like, [00:57:49] 02Brett: [00:57:49] Like emotionally hard. [00:57:50] 01Christina: [00:57:50] Oh, yeah. Emotionally, it was, it was, it took me months to even realize what had actually happened. [00:57:56] And, and then [00:57:56] 02Brett: [00:57:56] was so proud to have lost the weight that it felt [00:58:00] like a real, it felt degrading to have gained any of it [00:58:04] 01Christina: [00:58:04] yeah. I was [00:58:05] 02Brett: [00:58:05] it was so much a part of who I had become, like, I’m a guy who lost all this [00:58:10] 01Christina: [00:58:10] right, right, right, right, right. Like, well, I was kind of in a, in a. I mean that I think I can relate to that. Cause I think that that’s how I would feel like I, you know, that happened and it, you know, I think that some of it was, you know, getting older and like being in my thirties and like, you know, metabolism changing and whatever. [00:58:27] And then some of it was, you know, to the fact that I was. When I looked at the amount of calories I was consuming, especially with the amount of regular soda I was drinking, it was truly important and stupid. Um, and then I think a lot of it too was, it was just like, okay, you know, you had been on this medication, uh, you know, dextrin for like really long time. [00:58:45] You went off of it. You ghosted your shrink, which is dumb. No one do that. You also went off of your antidepressants. Like, you know, I just, I made really bad decisions. And, but what I was able to do is before I went back on my meds, I did lose the weight. [00:59:00] Uh, but it, it took, you know, cutting out, cutting out sugar was the big thing and it wasn’t intermittent fasting, but it was a thing what I noticed cause, and I kind of fell into this is that I would tend to eat meals really late at night. [00:59:15] So I would get home from work late. And then I would order, cause you know, in New York city, like you can, there is delivery all times of the night and you can get, you know, diner, food or whatever. And so I would get stuff delivered. Yeah. And it would, I would be eating, you know, Um, high caloric, you know, high-fat whatever stuff like late at night, and then you could go and that’s not good. [00:59:33] So, uh, you know, I made a conscious decision to do that and unfortunately I lost the weight, but yo, I can’t imagine, like now it is like, Probably my, my greatest fear and I’ve never been a heavy person. And frankly, even when I gained the 40 pounds, like no one would say that I was always overweight. Like that, wasn’t the case. [00:59:50] It’s just my body. Wasn’t built to support that. Like my body is in my frame and whatnot is built a certain way and I need to weigh more than I weigh [01:00:00] now. But, um, certainly you know, where, where that was at. Like it wasn’t good. And I have like this, you know, total, like. Fear, you know what I mean of like that ever happening again. [01:00:13] So I can only imagine, like, you’ve worked so hard and you changed so many things, you lost all that weight. And then to see it come back when you haven’t gone into the bad behaviors that, you know, maybe led to it the first time, like that’s gotta be the worst part, right. [01:00:25] 02Brett: [01:00:25] I made like total lifestyle changes and kept them going for years and, and maintained 190 pounds per years. Anyway, speaking of food delivery, uh, during our first episode of this season, I talked about how living in a small town and it’s okay because we get all their deliveries, just like everybody else. [01:00:47] The day that came out. I got an email from hello, fresh saying that my food delivery for the week had been entirely canceled. [01:00:55] 01Christina: [01:00:55] Oh my God. [01:00:56] 02Brett: [01:00:56] Uh, they, they couldn’t get it to me in time, so it wouldn’t be [01:01:00] fresh. And now I wasn’t going to get it at all. So I’ve been living on like, well, no, I went grocery [01:01:06] 01Christina: [01:01:06] I was going to say you have a car, right? I was going to say, you can just go to the grocery store, right. [01:01:10] 02Brett: [01:01:10] what am I supposed to do? Grocery shop? Um, it was just ironic that, [01:01:16] 01Christina: [01:01:16] That day. That like, literally [01:01:18] 02Brett: [01:01:18] And, and honestly, I, it was probably a FedEx problem, but I’m going to blame Trump for it, just because you know, this whole male thing’s happening. And, uh, I had, I had breakfast with my parents as I do almost every Saturday morning. [01:01:33] We live in the same town and, um, they are, I don’t know if you know this about me, but I’m. I’m like beyond liberal, I’m a, I’m a radical, a radical leftist. [01:01:47] 01Christina: [01:01:47] what [01:01:47] 02Brett: [01:01:47] Um, yeah, I know. I try to break it to people slowly, but, uh, my parents are the exact opposite. They are radical. [01:02:00] Rightists uh, also known as fundamentalist Christian conservatives. [01:02:04] And we are really good at doing this ballet around certain topics or 90% of topics where we can kind of, yeah, we can kind of toe into it, but then everyone kind of just backs back up and says, uh huh. Okay. Um, I don’t remember what happened this morning. Um, we were talking about the pandemic and the government response to the pandemic. [01:02:31] That’s where it started. And a statement was made that Trump deserves credit for Pfizer’s vaccine. And I was a guest. Well, how could you say that? A company which stands to make billions of dollars off of the research that they’re funding, subsidized research they’re funding. Wouldn’t have come up with a vaccine no matter who was president or [01:03:00] what was done as long as there was a free market. [01:03:02] It seems to me that the credit goes to the drug companies and all of those of us who put the money in their pockets. And that led to, um, uh, chain of events that predictably ended up arguing about abortion rights. And that’s how breakfast went. [01:03:19]01Christina: [01:03:19] I’m. I’m really sorry. [01:03:21] 02Brett: [01:03:21] It is it’s frustrating to me because I, I watch enough, uh, left-wing analysis of right wing media. [01:03:31] Like, I’m not gonna say, like I watch Fox news to get their perspective on things like what I see the clips and I, when they lay out their arguments, I know exactly where they got them from. And I know the flawed information that they’re working with and. It’s hard to argue with people who just believes something. [01:03:55] They heard Tucker Carlson say like [01:04:00] there’s no, you can lay down all the facts in the world and they will be glossed over. And you get into those arguments where if you present a factual argument that can’t be denied, they just switched tax. Yeah, but what about this? And what about this? And that’s how you get from, uh, uh, Pfizer to abortion in a relatively short span of time. [01:04:27] We, the common ground we found was Joe Biden. Like both of us dislike Joe Biden, just for complete opposite reasons. Like they think he’s going to lead to socialism. And I think he’s not going to lead nearly far enough for socialism. Um, but we agree that he’s a bad candidate. Uh, we, we agree. We, we agreed that Trump is a bad person, but they’re going to vote for Trump and I’m going to vote for Biden. [01:04:59] Even though we [01:05:00] have our reservations. So that’s almost a common ground. That’s as close as we got to common ground. Anyway. Um, yeah, that, I just had to get that out, uh, I guess, because I can come home and I can rent to my girlfriend about, about that, but. [01:05:16] 01Christina: [01:05:16] no, I mean, I’m, I’m, I’m in a similar thing. I mean, and I’m in a weird thing where I, like, I can’t see my parents because it’s not safe and they live in Georgia and they’re both in their seventies. And even though they’re both very healthy, like I don’t want to potentially expose them to anything. And so I don’t know when I’m going to be able to see them again. [01:05:33] And that really scares me. And my dad’s, you know, just had this thing where he had like, hit like a stroke in his eye. And so he lost vision in most of his left eye. And it is, it’s really scary because he like, like, you know, everything was fine. And then he woke up one day and like he had like a weird [01:05:55]02Brett: [01:05:55] I just edited in a sound that [01:06:00] signifies that while we were talking, there was a horrible, um, rebooting disastrous rebooting of my computer. Um, so you were talking about, uh, your dad’s eye. [01:06:13] 01Christina: [01:06:13] Yeah. Yeah. So my dad had this, this random, just weird like thing. I think they call it like a stroke in his eyes or whatever, and he’s lost a significant amount of vision in one of his eyes and, you know, dealing with bath stuff and, you know, and, and that has everybody concerned. Cause you don’t like. Yeah, the eyes are kind of connected. [01:06:30] You know, I don’t want, you know, is that gonna affect the vision? It is good. I liked is he gonna have to wear a patch? I don’t know. And I can’t go out and see them because it’s not safe. And so I’m not under the position to argue, or I don’t feel like I’m in a position to argue, like I did when I was younger or even like I did in 2016 when at least then even if I didn’t see them that frequently, I was like, I can, you know, so I totally understand where you’re coming from and I’ve had so many of those same arguments. [01:07:00] [01:07:00] I just I’m at this point now with the current stuff that I just I’m having to not be the bigger person, but I’m just like prioritizing. I’m just like, I’m just staff of Facebook. I’m just not having the conversations about it. I’m just doing everything I can to like, not engage with it because I, I, I, I just. [01:07:21] Am worried that because I don’t, I don’t have that. She needed to see them. I don’t want like the times that we do talk or whatever, to be getting into arguments about like the most terrible person [01:07:33] 02Brett: [01:07:33] and that’s the thing is I really, I do. I love my parents. I, I appreciate that. They have always loved me, even though we differ very drastically, especially on politics. But on life in general, like they, their, their life is very much centered around their religion. And mine is very much centered around my atheism. [01:07:58] And, [01:08:00] uh, whether those two things are directly related as far as bioperine goes, uh, pretty obvious lines to be drunk. But yeah. Anyway, like I don’t, we yeah. Avoid those topics because we do have other things to talk about and. And we can be family without having to constantly be at each other’s throats and something went wrong this morning. [01:08:21] And I think partly because I decided I was gonna cheat and actually for the last few weeks, since I started this intermittent fasting, I’ve been just watching them eat breakfast, which has been awkward for all of us. Um, and this morning I was like, you know, I’m gonna, I’ll just, I’ll reduce calories for the rest of the day. [01:08:41] I’ll just out have some pancakes with them this morning. And I think I was feeling a little shitty about that decision. So I was already in a bit of a ornery place. And then I couldn’t, I just, [01:08:55] 01Christina: [01:08:55] well, and you’re human dude. You’re human. Like there’s only so [01:09:00] much. [01:09:00] 02Brett: [01:09:00] When people say things that I strongly disagree with I’m I am not a person who does a good job of biting my tongue. And I don’t hate that about myself. I actually, I consider that to be a sign of conviction, [01:09:15]01Christina: [01:09:15] I [01:09:16] 02Brett: [01:09:16] but, but there, there are times when it is far smarter in my life to, to just not say anything because I’m not going to change their minds. aye. Aye. Aye. Never, no matter how many facts I’ve come with, no matter how many studies and, and resources and well sourced material I’ve come at them with. I have never, they have never budged on anything and yeah, best we’ll find one point we already agree on and then leave it at that. And so it’s, there’s no reason I have to open my mouth. [01:09:55] There’s no reason. Like if I thought I could make a [01:10:00] difference, I would feel morally obligated to say, here’s why I think you’re wrong, but I’m not going to make a difference. So is there a point. [01:10:07]01Christina: [01:10:07] Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I think that it’s probably not a point in arguing with them, but there is something to be said, and I think this is where. I, this is why I’ve spoken up. And I’ve had like, the argument sometimes is it’s like, if you, if you hear somebody saying something that is like factually or morally wrong, like, I don’t know. [01:10:24] There’s a part of me that does feel like a moral imperative to be like, no, this is not okay. And what’s happening here is not okay. And maybe we won’t agree. Maybe I won’t change your mind, but I’m not going to just sit back and like, listen to you. Like say something that’s like, Wrong. At least that’s how I’ve, I’ve traditionally been. [01:10:42] And now I’m in this position where I’m like not going on Facebook. We’re purposely not bringing any of that stuff up and I’m not engaging because I don’t want to get into it. Uh, I do think, I think for me, where I kind of draw the line, like grant gets into fights with his mom and stuff all the time and will argue with people. [01:10:59] I [01:11:00] try to go out of my way, not to argue with people on Facebook. Like even when I do go on, on, [01:11:04] 02Brett: [01:11:04] that’s never been productive in the history of Facebook. [01:11:07] 01Christina: [01:11:07] Right. And, and for me, I’m just also, it’s just one of those things. Like, I don’t appreciate people coming to like my posts and trying to like, argue with me and try to like, you know, like yell at me about stuff. [01:11:16] So why would I do that with them? Like, I’m just not going to do it, but I feel like it’s different. Like if we’re having an active conversation, That’s when it’s much harder for me to, to disagree gauge. Now there are obviously times when you have to be like the bigger person and you just have to like, recognize like, okay, this is, you know, your, your grandmother, grandfather, or this is your spouse’s parent. [01:11:41] And you’re not in a position where you, you should keep it, your mouth shut, right? Like that’s the plight and the correct thing to do do, or, you know, you’re in a social setting where it’s just not appropriate and you need to just like, Let it go. Um, and, and some people probably argue that there are never positions where you should let, you know, uh, incorrect and, and, [01:12:00] and terrible things be said without stepping in and encouraging them. [01:12:03] And yeah, maybe they’re right. But I just feel like there are, there are social situations where it’s just like, This is not the appropriate time to have this, this sort of outlay. And it’s like, you observe whatever they’ve said, you don’t agree with it. Um, and, and if you’re asked directly you push back, but you don’t need to get into a back and forth, but, you know, I, it is hard for me if I’m having a conversation, like I imagine, you know, you’re at breakfast and, you know, you hear that, that comes up and like, Yeah, it’s going to be really hard for you as somebody who is well read and well researched on it, even though you know that you’re not changing their minds. [01:12:36] It’s, there’s like a part of it. That’s like you, can’t not say something like, I don’t know. It’s hard. [01:12:43] 02Brett: [01:12:43] Have you ever seen the YouTube channel? Some more news. [01:12:47]01Christina: [01:12:47] No, I don’t think I have. [01:12:48] 02Brett: [01:12:48] You got to see this guy? I think, I think it’s Cody Johnson is his [01:12:52] 01Christina: [01:12:52] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. I didn’t know. I didn’t know. That was the name of it, but yeah, I’ve [01:12:55] 02Brett: [01:12:55] there’s a, there’s a whole team of writers [01:12:58] 01Christina: [01:12:58] Yeah. Yeah, [01:12:58] 02Brett: [01:12:58] the, but the he’s this, [01:13:00] his, his shtick is a disheveled looking newscaster. With like a five o’clock shadow slash full beard and a undone tie. And anyway, like his it’s, it’s the kind of, it’s the kind of liberal that I am like. It, it will acknowledge that there were a lot of problems with Obama and there were a lot of problems with bill Clinton and maybe even more problems with. [01:13:30] The interims, but, uh, like it’s something that is so, uh, left wing that I could never use it as a source in a conversation with my parents, but I will put it out there for anyone who thinks that the, uh, the democratic party has lost their way and, uh, are far too moderate. Here’s some, here’s a great YouTube channel for you. [01:13:55] It’s called some more news. And also even more news. It’s the podcast. [01:14:00] [01:14:00] 01Christina: [01:14:00] Excellent. Excellent. Yeah, I ha I’ve um, I don’t like watch him regularly, but I’ve seen his stuff before, but good. A good shout out, um, to that. So, We your computer like had a weird crashing thing and I, okay. I had the weirdest audio problem that I’ve discovered this week that I just wanted to share with you because I wanted to know if you’d ever heard of anything like this. [01:14:23] It’s absolutely insane. And I think it has to do with where I live. So I was recording something and in the silence bits or whatnot, there was this very faint, like radio-frequency. In the background of all of my recordings and I’m using like a very expensive mic and I’m using like a preamp and, um, you know, kind of an amp and like, you know, like digital, like recording, you know, device, like the setup is, is significantly better than what I usually use. [01:14:55] And it was one of those things that if you like, listen to it at, at, you know, kind of [01:15:00] not super high volume and you weren’t listening to, you know, the stuff like you wouldn’t hear it, but then it, like, if you, you know, you raised the game, you’re like, Oh, what the hell is this? So have you ever had that. [01:15:12] 02Brett: [01:15:12] I’m not personally, but I published a blog post about my, my current podcasting setup for these, uh, for these podcasts reboots. And one of the commenters mentioned that with his XLR. Mike going through a whatever interface and a couple of mixers. He had a lot of problems with cell phone interference, like having a cell phone too close to the setup. [01:15:42] And I I’ve experienced cell phone interference on recordings before. [01:15:46] 01Christina: [01:15:46] I have to. [01:15:47] 02Brett: [01:15:47] that’s happened. So I’m wondering if there’s something that’s not shielded properly or. [01:15:53] 01Christina: [01:15:53] Well, and, and that was kind of my initial thought. And when I was troubleshooting with the people, I was like recording with, like, we were [01:16:00] playing with that and they were like, are you, are you grounded? And I was like, yeah, I was in a direct, like a three-pronged ground. And she was into, you know, an extension into a three-prong like, You know, outlet, but I liked indirectly, directly plugged in, you know, I changed stuff around, well, what it turns out. [01:16:14] And, and, but then when I was talking to grant about this, we kind of realized actually it’s funny. One of the people I was working with, he mentioned that he used to live in Seattle. And when he lived in Capitol Hill, where I live, he had like a turntable and he had, I guess, like a, kind of a shitty pair of like amplified speakers or whatever. [01:16:31] And he would hear radio noises coming through. Those amplified speakers. And when he said that it hit me, I was like, grant has a car that doesn’t have an antenna, but can pick up NPR. And KEXP was just like the indie rock station. And the, we also had situations where we have like really shitty amplified speakers. [01:16:54] Like we had them in our kitchen and they were like, just really tiny, like computer speaker things. And I could [01:17:00] hear very faintly, like radio signals. So. What it is, is that I think it’s because I basically live on, on top of like two radio transmitters. And it is something that like is in the way walls and the ground and whatever, what we wound up being able to kind of fix it. [01:17:18] It was a most bizarre thing. I was connecting the, you know, recording device, um, over USBC to my Mac and passing through that way. And. They said, okay, we’ll unplug the USB cable and see if that, you know, maybe fixes the issue. And in my mind, I’m like, okay, but the USB cable it’s ones and zeros, like, there’s no way that this is going to have any impact on anything. [01:17:41] And, and I still feel like technically that makes complete sense. Like there’s no reason that the USB would have any impact, but for whatever reason, when I unplugged that and then just recorded directly on that device and didn’t have that pass through. Going through the computer, which was then going through, you know, like, you know, Skype or whatever. [01:17:59][01:18:00] It’s like the, the, the situation fixed itself. So now I wonder, like if maybe there was an issue with how my man book is grounded and that is, you know, the issue, I don’t know, but it’s the most bizarre thing, cause I’ve never heard anything like it. And it’s one of those things. Like, you wouldn’t hear it at like kind of, you know, normal volumes, but like with things way raised and like something recorded, especially on like a very, very high quality, like Mike that picks up kind of like everything that you hear. [01:18:26] This it’s radio, it’s a radio frequency. It’s the most bizarre thing. It’s like, I have like spooked stuff. So like between that and, um, you know, my SD card breaking and half in my hand. And you having like, reboots, like, I’m just, I’m just feeling like there’s some sort of audio curse on me this week. [01:18:44]02Brett: [01:18:44] It’s just 2020. That’s just how bad this year is. Everything’s just breaking. [01:18:49] 01Christina: [01:18:49] Hurricane fires, dude. [01:18:51]02Brett: [01:18:51] What the fuck? Right. [01:18:52] 01Christina: [01:18:52] Like what the fuck? I don’t know. [01:18:55]02Brett: [01:18:55] Oh, no. What? [01:18:56] 01Christina: [01:18:56] I mean, I just, I don’t know. I was just like, you know, just [01:19:00] all of it, just all of it. Not, not, not anything specific to, uh, to, to us or anything, but yeah, [01:19:05] 02Brett: [01:19:05] yeah, no hell of a year. Hell of a night. Hi, Ted. Nothing like a late nineties, Madonna four rooms references. [01:19:14] 01Christina: [01:19:14] for real, for real I talk about people. Like I do give her a pass, cause she’s like 61, but like even I’m at this point and I’m like heart, you know, we’ve, I’ve defended Madonna many times on this podcast and I’ve been, I’m like, okay, Madonna, like just, yeah. [01:19:31]02Brett: [01:19:31] Tishi really need money. [01:19:34] 01Christina: [01:19:34] Right, right. I mean, I think, I think what it, for her, what it probably is like, she still looks great and like, her body’s still really like, other than like, when she had like her hurt, but she fell and had the knee problem or whatever. Like she still like looks really fit. And I think she’s probably, I don’t know. [01:19:46] I’m kind of like, cause I have this massive fear of aging and I have a feeling like hers has to be like three times that thing, she just doesn’t want to like admit that like, you know, she doesn’t. Like, I don’t know, like go, not go [01:20:00] away, but like, you don’t have to, you don’t have to continue to be doing all the stuff that you do. [01:20:06] I know she’s 62 actually. Shit. She just turned 60, 62. Yeah. I mean, she looks amazing, [01:20:12] 02Brett: [01:20:12] She does. She does. and I, I, I get it. I get it. And I, Madonna is probably always going to be hot. [01:20:21] 01Christina: [01:20:21] Yeah, totally, totally. Um, But yeah, no, I mean, there’s, there’s just things where it’s just at this point with Madonna will always be hot and Madonna will always be Madonna, but there are just certain things. I’m just, you see her on social media and doing stuff and we’re just like, dude, it it’s going cringe in ways that shouldn’t stop. [01:20:39] 02Brett: [01:20:39] She could just, she could pick up like young guys and live a very private life and get all the affirmation. I think that a 62 year old pop star could need a, without having to put herself out there and ways that are potentially embarrassing. [01:20:57] 01Christina: [01:20:57] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it’s not [01:21:00] just embarrassing for her, but if like, you know, I, I feel bad for like, for Lordis. Like I, I, you know, and, and the other kids and like, yeah. Cause, you know that they’re like looking at this and they’re like, mom, just stop. You know that, they’re just like, they’re like, mom, seriously, like you’re making this difficult for all of us, but yeah, I think just, just like, [01:21:19] 02Brett: [01:21:19] we’ve talked about this mom. [01:21:21] 01Christina: [01:21:21] keep it off Instagram, that’s all I’m saying, like still do your thing. [01:21:24] Still do all of your stuff and actually still tour or whatever, but like just keep it off Instagram. Like you don’t need to just keep it off Instagram. [01:21:32] 02Brett: [01:21:32] If I, if I had any level of success in my twenties and thirties, I would definitely want to not be touring in my sixties. I would like to say. Um, I can live off residuals and royalties for the rest of my life and not touring is not easy. [01:21:56] 01Christina: [01:21:56] no, no, [01:21:57] 02Brett: [01:21:57] on a show is not easy. It’s a young, [01:22:00] it’s a young person’s game. [01:22:02] 01Christina: [01:22:02] yeah, I have to wonder, I don’t know. I mean, in, and I don’t want this to go or episodes already super long, but I do have to wonder, like, if this is one of those things where if it’s not, it’s not about the fact that you have the money or the success. I think for some of these people, like, I think that for her, I think that for maybe people like the stones, people like Paul McCartney, like this is something where it’s a huge part of your identity. [01:22:24] Like if you aren’t. A musician, if you aren’t playing publicly, like, cause here’s the thing, like obviously there are some people who can say, Oh, I just do this for the art, but there are, there’s another component to it, which is you do it because you do like that. People listen to it. You like the affirmation, you like the public part. [01:22:40] Like there’s nothing wrong with that. Like I’m, I’m. I mean, you and I were doing this podcast and I do stuff because I like the public affirmation of it. And I like to share myself and whatnot. Right. Like I’m I, um, I enjoy that. And so I wonder if for some of those artists, like, if it’s, because them it’s on a much, much bigger level, right? [01:22:57] Like if it’s one of those things where it’s like, [01:23:00] for some of them, not all of them, but for some of them, their personalities are just such that like, they, can’t not, not only not create or whatever, but they, can’t not like be. Sharing that and be public because that’s a core part of their identity. [01:23:13] 02Brett: [01:23:13] Well, and it’s a huge, ah, if, if you’ve come to rely on public affirmation for your self worth. If that becomes a big part of how you see yourself, I can see that being hard to retire from. Um, but I think that any healthy person can retire and can find new interests and new fulfillment in things that maybe aren’t what they did when they were 20 years old. [01:23:47] But that’s just me. I hope to retire and be a very lonely curmudgeon someday. [01:23:54] 01Christina: [01:23:54] Yeah. Yeah, no. And I think that for most people, that’s probably true. I don’t know though, with your [01:24:00] Madonna, like. [01:24:02] 02Brett: [01:24:02] I’m not, if [01:24:03] 01Christina: [01:24:03] I know you’re not, but, but you know what I mean? I think that like, if you are somebody who is Madonna, who like. It is a core part of everything that you’ve done. It has to be really difficult. [01:24:14] I w I would imagine like, kind of reconciling the fact that not only are you changing an aging and that the world is changing around you, but you’re, you’re not, you know, even 40 anymore. Right. That it’s like, it it’s different. I don’t know. I, I, I have, I don’t know how I would deal with that. And, and I it’s, it’s interesting to see, um, have you watched the Taylor Swift documentary, miss Americana? [01:24:40] 02Brett: [01:24:40] It’s on my list, but no. [01:24:42] 01Christina: [01:24:42] All right. So I want you to watch that I will listen to some and you will send me some other things to like watch and listen. But my homework for you is to watch miss Americana, because I would love to have a discussion with you about it. I’m on a future show because it’s a really interesting documentary. [01:24:57] And she’s, she’s one of [01:25:00] those that I do. I’m curious how she will, she’s obviously like made a conscious decision to be less in the spotlight. Like it’s. Very conscientious. What, at the same time, like, especially if you watch the documentary, you do see that most of her self worth and self identity has been based on like public affirmation. [01:25:20] And it’ll be interesting to see like, I’m very interested to see like what Taylor Swift will be like in 30 years. You know what I mean? Like if she’s like a Carol King or like a Joni Mitchell and kind of, you know, like a, you know, either kind of in, um, like nobody knows where you are or, you know, just comes out occasionally for, you know, worst memories and whatnot, or if she’s, you know, like a, like a Tina Turner, um, who kind of hires gracefully, or if she’s like a Madonna, who’s still, you know, doing it. [01:25:50] 02Brett: [01:25:50] Doing it [01:25:51] 01Christina: [01:25:51] Is still doing it. Yeah. Uh, but anyway, but also, but that just made me think [01:25:55] 02Brett: [01:25:55] cute. Do you want to know my prediction? [01:25:57] 01Christina: [01:25:57] that? [01:25:58] 02Brett: [01:25:58] I think Taylor Swift [01:26:00] will continue to evolve as a musician and she will play age appropriate music. If she’s still still putting out albums at the age of 60, she will put out an album that makes sense to the people who have been lifetime fans of hers in a way that expresses. [01:26:17] A growth and an understanding that one is not a teenage pop star forever much. Like she already has, like, this is I, this, I, I make this prediction because we’re already seeing it happen. Um, I don’t think she’d go away entirely, but I think she would disappear for five, six years at a time and then make a, make a splash on the scene by doing something, um, age appropriate. [01:26:44] That’s that’s my prediction for the classy Taylor Swift. [01:26:47] 01Christina: [01:26:47] Yeah. I think you’re probably right. I think, and you’re right. We’re already kind of seeing that, but I think you’re probably right. Although it is interesting to think about like, Because we haven’t ever seen, we haven’t seen this yet with like the, with female, um, like pop stars, like especially young [01:27:00] ones, like Madonna, um, when she plays, like she does still play stuff from like some of her earlier stuff, but like, she never wrote like a confessional, like teenage music, you know, she was in her twenties when she started. [01:27:11] So it’s different. Like, you know, uh, it would be interesting to see like what happens when. Like would Brittany Spears assuming she ever reforms again? Like, would she still be doing like the bubble gum pop stuff in her forties and [01:27:24] 02Brett: [01:27:24] would anyone take her seriously if she wasn’t though, [01:27:27] 01Christina: [01:27:27] Well, right. I mean, but nobody’s takes her seriously anyway, but like you go to Brittany Spears cause you want to see baby one more time. [01:27:32] You want to see toxic. You want to, you know what I mean? Like she’s, [01:27:34] 02Brett: [01:27:34] And a 60 year old woman and a school girl skirt singing baby. One more time is not going to fly. [01:27:41] 01Christina: [01:27:41] Yeah. I mean, although here’s the interesting thing, a six year old woman, you’re exactly right. It wouldn’t, but what’s weird is that like the boy band still get so many people going to their shows and their concerts and their residencies. Yeah. Like it’s nuts. I mean, they’re all older, obviously, right? Like nobody, you know, [01:28:00] I mean clearly like young people are not going to go see the Backstreet boys, but the Backstreet boys do incredibly well with, and it’s been good for them. [01:28:08] Cause their fan base is now like in their thirties and, and, uh, Has money and like, you know, can, can spend money on stupid stuff. Like seeing, you know, some guys who were like edging on 50, like still singing bubblegum pop songs from like 25 years ago. And you’re like, dude, so it’s weird. Like that, that’s a weird, that’s what we were gendered thing. [01:28:30] 02Brett: [01:28:30] that is a weird double standard dish kind of, um, I bet Brittany Spears hates that about them. [01:28:37] 01Christina: [01:28:37] Yeah. I mean, I. I would too, but also, I mean, you know, I don’t want to get into the whole, like things that are going on with Brittany. Cause it, all of it bothers me. But, um, I think that I don’t, I don’t know how much she cares. I think she just is like happy to be with her super hot young boyfriend and to dance around and you know, just live in whatever weird bubble she lives in which [01:29:00] like good for you, Brittany. [01:29:00] Like. I really do hope that she does, you know, decides that she wants to return to performing again. Cause I wasn’t able to see her in her Vegas residency and it really upset me that I didn’t have that opportunity. And I’ve seen her live before and she’s not a good live performer. Like she, like, she doesn’t sing. [01:29:16] She lip syncs, which is good for everyone cause she can’t sing. And you know, the dancing is, you know, I saw her like at peak Brittany and it was okay, but I will be honest. I saw Madonna the same year and Madonna was better like legitimately the Madonna show that year was. Madonna was a better dancer, a better performer, a better singer, like better production. [01:29:34] Like the whole thing was better. Madonna, you know, it’s, you know, um, more than 20 years older than her. So, um, that like is, uh, interesting, but, um, I still like wanted to see like the Brittany comeback, you know, kind of tour thing. So I would still like to have that experience, but I will say also it will be weirder. [01:29:56] You know what I mean? Like, I can’t imagine seeing a 50 year old Brittany Spears, like. [01:30:00] Like you said like six or six year old, like in the, in the, you know, um, you know, school uniform, like dancing around, like, that’s just, I don’t know. Although at that time I’ll be like, you know, 60 year olds, six years old too. [01:30:14] So I don’t know. [01:30:16]02Brett: [01:30:16] Alright. That was a fun episode. Even with a reboot in the middle of it. [01:30:22] 01Christina: [01:30:22] I know, I know, uh, it was good stuff. All right. So your, your homework is missing Marikana in addition to K Flay, what homework do I have? [01:30:29]02Brett: [01:30:29] Watch some more news. [01:30:31] 01Christina: [01:30:31] Okay. I will watch some more news. Alright, excellent. [01:30:33] 02Brett: [01:30:33] The problem that he has some that are like clip shows that are, uh, 10 to 20 minutes long, long, but his really good stuff is 28 and, and an hour and eight minutes. Um, so it, it takes some time investment, but you can get a feel and, and you can catch up with his latest stuff, uh, by catching some of the clip shows. [01:30:55] 01Christina: [01:30:55] Okay. That’s [01:30:56] 02Brett: [01:30:56] I’ll, I’ll, I’ll link a [01:30:57] 01Christina: [01:30:57] Okay. Link a couple. And um, [01:31:00] and also I will, I will listen to some more, uh, Kay. Flay and, uh, excellent. Alright, Brett, [01:31:06] 02Brett: [01:31:06] Yeah, get some sleep, Christina. [01:31:08] 01Christina: [01:31:08] some sleep, Brett.