Overtired

David Lynch and Frank Herbert and all of the media conversations spawned by the two. Plus, cosmetic surgery. Sponsors ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED Upstart is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan –– all online. Visit Upstart.com/Overtired to get your fast approval with up-front rates. Show Links Violent Femmes – Crazy Brett’s Ringtones Impeachment Amanda Peet is not Lake Bell In a World Brockmire Dune (1984) Dune (2021) Eraserhead Mullholland Drive The Dune Encyclopedia Wayward Pines Twitter/msexcel What is Devops? – GitHub Universe Twitter/quinnypig NYT on Corey Quinn It’s clear that @film_girl ’s tweets are art, and should be treated as such. Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 261 [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren here as always with Mr. Brett Terpstra. Brett, how are you? [00:00:11] Brett: Oh, it’s Saturday. [00:00:13] Christina: It is Saturday. Yeah. we are recording late. Thank you very much for letting us record late. I was, shall we say more than Overtired yesterday? [00:00:22] Brett: Yeah. You, you, you said you had like 90 minutes of sleep. What happened? [00:00:26] Christina: I do. I don’t know. I don’t know. I get these insomnia burse and, um, this was one of those situations where, and we were recording late. We’re recording at 8:00 AM, which for us is like a late thing. And I genuinely had had like 90 minutes of sleep and I was like, I can’t do this. And I had a meeting at 10 and I was like, I just need to sleep until 10:00 AM. [00:00:47] So, because it’s easier to go into a meeting with like three and a half hours sleep versus 90 minutes. So. [00:00:55] Brett: Well, if we didn’t, if we didn’t ha oh, our sponsors a show this [00:01:00] week, I would have just given you the week. [00:01:02] Christina: Yeah. exactly. But we love our sponsors that much. And we love getting paid that much. That a here we are. [00:01:10] Does anyone still have ringtones? [00:01:10] Brett: Yeah. So, uh, so, uh, uh, w w you know what, I, I really liked the ring tone that, you know, the music that Skype plays when you’re like waiting for someone to pick up. [00:01:22] Christina: do, do do. [00:01:24] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Aye. Has it always been like that? Or is that like something new? [00:01:29] Christina: I think it’s been that way for a number of years. I don’t know how long, but I’m with you. I like it. Uh, the funny thing is at least because audio is such a shit show everywhere. I don’t always like hear it. So sometimes you don’t have my things set up and I like won’t hear it. But when I do, I’m always like very excited because a, like, I know my audio is working and be it’s Jonty. [00:01:51] It’s a nice little Shante doo doo doo doo doo doo. [00:01:55] Brett: Yeah, it’s completely inoffensive. [00:01:58] Christina: It is completely [00:01:59] Brett: I can’t [00:02:00] imagine anyone being upset by this Skype ring. Ring tone sound. [00:02:04] Christina: No, and it’s not like, like, like the, like the T-Mobile duh, duh, duh, duh. You know that one. Drives me. It drives me fucking crazy. And there’s also one, like one of the default iPhone ones is just like offensive. And I think it’s because at this point I relate it to like, okay, so you and I, we were joking before we started recording. [00:02:30] Like, we both just have our phones on silent, so we don’t even use ringtones anymore. My mom is not one of those people. And so she’s had the same kind of ringtone, like since she’s had like her Motorola razor or whatever, and she always keeps her phone on and for whatever, like my mom, I love my mom so much, but like my mom, you know, she’s your mom, like, you get annoyed by shit. [00:02:51] Your mom does. And like my mom, like some of her stuff, like, she’ll just like let the phone ring and we’ll be in the car. And like, she’s like trying to find it to answer. And I’m like, just pair it with [00:03:00] your Bluetooth system. And it’s a whole thing. So there’s certain ringtones that when I hear them, I just like [00:03:07] Brett: Great sound new. [00:03:08] Christina: Well, yeah, it’s like a completely Pavlovian thing, right? Like, it’s, it’s just like, you hear it in, like, instead of salivating, you just like, get like mad. But, um, I, uh, I used to be really into like having cool custom ringtones that I was switch up like every few months. Like I would even make custom ones like which apple didn’t make easy. [00:03:31] And then like the process of getting them onto your freaking phone, they made more difficult. Like you, you couldn’t even use iTunes anymore. Like you had to use like I mazing or some shit. And, um, you know, like, like various, like third-party apps to like, get like the, in for our file on. [00:03:48] Brett: Yeah. [00:03:49] Christina: And, and, uh, I, kept it going until like five years ago. [00:03:53] And then I was just like, you know, my phone’s always on, on silent. [00:03:56] Brett: I, uh, I used to, if you go to [00:04:00] dot com slash other stuff, I have a couple sets of ringtones. Uh, I have, I have with titles, like surfing puke tastes like burning, unlicensed to ill. We came to wreck everything and the swamp stomp and me. So thorny, [00:04:16] Christina: I like it. I like it. Lipstick and crisis rudeness who invited you? Um, uh, bat shit. I like that. I liked that. Yeah. I um, [00:04:27] Brett: what was that? I think that was, I think that was, uh, I can’t remember. Um, I want to say, oh yeah, it was a meatloaf. It wasn’t meatloaf sample. [00:04:37] Christina: yeah. Yeah. Meat. Yeah. Bat shit is meatloaf, which is great. Uh, lipstick, a crisis is New York. Joel’s rudeness is a specialist who invited you, Tom petty. And the Heartbreakers. I like this. Yeah, I think my, my favorite one. Cause, um, do you remember like the, the, the, the Cielo song, uh, fucking. [00:04:53] Brett: Yes. [00:04:54] Christina: That was my ringtone for a while, which was great. [00:04:57] And, um, that was funny [00:05:00] in public. That was always like a good one in [00:05:02] Brett: Sure. Sure. [00:05:03] Christina: Um, [00:05:04] Brett: In line at the grocery store. [00:05:06] Christina: people loved it. Honestly, people like you get like a, like a, like a kick out of it. Cause I, I, I made it like the actual, you know, fuck you like, like thing, like I didn’t, um, I didn’t like make it the censored version or whatever. [00:05:20] That was good. Um, I remember I had like, neurals Barclays crazy again, a Cielo kind of thing, um, uh, for, for, for a time. Um, [00:05:30] Brett: question. Have you ever heard the violent femmes cover of crazy? [00:05:36] Christina: Yes. [00:05:37] Brett: Oh, it’s so [00:05:38] Christina: good. That’s so good. [00:05:39] Brett: I should add that to our show notes because people need to hear this. [00:05:43] Christina: They really do. Cause it’s good. I mean, it’s a great song period, but like That that cover is fucking great. Yeah. No, but I used to do other things like, and, and, um, I had a Taylor swift style for a while. Like I had, you know, like, you know, kind of your, um, I think I even, did you adjust in Bieber song? [00:06:00] Um, at like, well, cause when, when purpose came out, it was a fucking good song. [00:06:03] It was a fucking good album. He’s a piece of shit, but he writes some bangers or he doesn’t write them. voice is used on some bankers. He, I mean, look, I would never see, I was talking about this with somebody like that last week, I would never pay money to see Justin Bieber live. Cause you know, we terrible, you know, like, like he he’s in, when he started a tour before, like there’ve been times when he just like lays on like the stage and like his bands, like, and then his plates were like, oh, he’s having a mental breakdown. We left you so much chest. And I’m like, you fucking asshole. Fuck you. [00:06:33] Brett: support you. [00:06:34] Christina: And I’m like, get the fuck up and perform like, and then I’m not one of those people who like get up and sing, but I’m like, if I paid hundreds of dollars to see you perform you better not be lying on the fucking ground. Right. Like [00:06:46] Brett: I can tell you that Brittany and Madonna have both had their rough days and pulled off killer performances, [00:06:52] Christina: right. Absolutely. And Madonna actually singing, Right? [00:06:55] Like no shade to Brittany, but we all know bitch can’t sing. She lip syncs like [00:07:00] a mofo though, and dances real fucking well. So like get the Real well. [00:07:05] so get the fuck up Justin. But has some bangers, as I said, that he has his, his voice has been used on, but yeah, there’s something happened where I finally like gave up ghost and it kinda makes me sad because I do enjoy the ringtone thing. [00:07:20] I wonder if it was going to corporate America, because I, I will say like in our newsroom, people will fuck you. Great. Aye. Aye. And occasionally like having like, like a chain smokers, like, you know what I mean? Like you can, you can mix it up and like have things that would like make people laugh. Microsoft. [00:07:39] I don’t know, man. [00:07:41] Brett: why is to have different Rincones for different peoples. So like, it would depend on who was calling me. I don’t even know what my phone sounds like when it rings anymore. [00:07:50] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, I think mine is just like, whatever the Depot shit is, which is honestly kind of worst. But plus at this point you get notified like on your watch, [00:08:00] on your phone, on your computer, on all your things, you know what I mean? [00:08:03] Brett: Yes, I do know what you mean. And then you try to decline the call from your computer, but your phone keeps ringing and then you like hit the button on your watch and then it, it like answers it. [00:08:13] Christina: it answers it And, [00:08:14] you’re like, oh, but I didn’t want to talk to you And then like nine times out of 10, it’s like a fucking spam number anyway, because everybody just texts. [00:08:22] Brett: to talk to you about your car insurance or whatever. [00:08:25] Christina: And you’re like, what the hell I was thinking about this the other day? I was like, when my nephew is old enough to like use things, like I’m going to have to explain an, a physical phone to him and it’s going to be like, like a non cell phone to him and it’s going to be weird conversation. [00:08:46] Brett: I was just watching my Saturday morning cartoons, which consisted of modern family. Um, and, uh, they had an episode where they pulled out an answering machine out of a box in the attic [00:08:59] Christina: Hi. [00:08:59] Brett: [00:09:00] and the kids, the kids were baffled. What is that? [00:09:03] Christina: Yes. Okay. I was actually, it’s funny you say that. Cause I was thinking about answering machines too, and I was thinking of how to explain it to people because I was watching my Saturday morning cartoons, which, um, was, um, Okay. [00:09:16] So have you been watching in. [00:09:18] Brett: No, [00:09:19] Christina: American horror American crime story series about the Clinton thing is so fucking good. [00:09:25] Um, so we, we, it, it’s the one with, with beanie Feldstein as Monica and, um, Sarah Paulson as Linda Tripp, who was fucking great. Actually, they both are, uh, Clive Owen as [00:09:39] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I did see the previous for [00:09:41] Christina: it’s really fucking good. Like it’s really, really fucking good. Um, and so that then got me like on an ADHD, like, okay. [00:09:53] Um, I now need to, um, watch other Sarah Paulson things cause I love her. And then that got me thinking about her [00:10:00] best friend who is Amanda Peet, who I like quite a lot. And then I was reminded that I hadn’t seen all of, um, dirty John, um, um, the, uh, Betty Broderick. Which came out last year and that is on Netflix. [00:10:16] And I was watching that and they, because it takes place in the eighties and also, Amanda, Pete’s fucking great in that, so good. Um, [00:10:25] Brett: a good segue when we’re, when, when we’re, when you’re done. [00:10:28] Christina: yeah, but, but then they like have like it, cause it’s eighties, they have like fucking answering machines and I was thinking the same thing. All right. Go on your, your, your [00:10:36] Speaking of Amanda Peet [00:10:36] Brett: No, it’s Amanda, Pete. Um, so [00:10:38] Christina: is fucking great. [00:10:39] Brett: I have had this show coming up under my recommended shows for a couple of years now and never gave it a shot. It’s called Brockmeyer [00:10:49] Christina: Uh huh. [00:10:50] Brett: it stars Amanda Peet, at least for the first season. It does. And Hank Azaria. [00:10:55] Christina: Oh nice. [00:10:56] Brett: It is crazy good. I love this show so [00:11:00] much that you’ve never seen it. [00:11:01] Christina: No I haven’t. But, but you, but now I’m looking at it. [00:11:04] and it looks like this is totally my shit. [00:11:07] Brett: It’s like a Brockmeyer is like his, his ex-wife. He has this like public humiliation, whereas ex-wife is like pegging some other neighbor guy in the middle of an orgy when he gets home and he he’s a sports announcer and he has this very public meltdown over the whole thing spends a couple of years like touring brothels in foreign countries and then comes back and tries to crawl his way back into sports announcing, uh, like starting from the bottom in this like fracking riddled town. [00:11:40] It’s so good. It’s he’s hilarious. It’s amazing. The writing is excellent. Amanda Peet is awesome. It’s a great show. [00:11:48] Christina: Okay, I’m going to watch it then. That’s that [00:11:50] Brett: And it’s half hour episode. You can [00:11:53] Christina: Oh. [00:11:53] Brett: any time. [00:11:54] Christina: So You can fit it in all the time. [00:11:56] I love it. I love it. No she’s really underrated. Um, [00:12:00] she’s one of those people who like didn’t act a whole lot, cause she got married and then like took care of the kids. Um, but you know who her husband is, the guy who created game of Thrones. [00:12:11] Brett: really? [00:12:11] Christina: Yeah. David Benioff. [00:12:13] Brett: Huh? [00:12:14] Christina: Yeah. [00:12:15] Brett: was the, what was in it in another, in a world. Did you ever see in a world? [00:12:22] Christina: yes, that was with lake Belvaux. Who looks [00:12:24] Brett: Oh, oh yeah. It conflated in my memory. [00:12:29] Christina: No, it was no big, but they do look a lot like sheep. So I somehow this turned into another thing that I wash at three o’clock in the morning and I, I watched half of it, which was. Amazing that I watched half of this thing, but I was, cause again, I was like washing, like Sarah Paulson, he made a stuff and then I was recommended on YouTube. [00:12:46] Apparently Amanda cause they’re best friends and they best friends since they did Jack and Jill together like 20 something years ago. And um, Amanda, Pete got basically got Sarah Paulson, the job on studio 60. [00:13:00] And um, and you can tell like when they interact, like, cause they do the red carpet stuff together, but they’re like best friends. [00:13:06] They’re like people who have like total shorthand together and whatnot and um, L or in style or something wanted, um, Amanda P to do like an Instagram live thing with Sarah Paulson sensibly to talk about some movies or whatnot, who knows this was like a little over a year ago. And it was just, it was the most, it was an Instagram live and some fan recorded it and it was remarkably delightful. [00:13:30] It was like an hour. And I was reading to the YouTube comments and people were like, I’m going to watch a few minutes of this. There’s no way to watch the whole thing. An hour later, I watched the whole thing. I got through like half an hour and I could have gone on, but I was like, I kind of want to watch other TV, but it was actually like, see, hearing them talk to each other. [00:13:45] It was very funny. And they were like, Amanda, Pete was a little drunk, but in a good way, it was, it was a very funny, like, interesting conversation of the two of them. And it made me like, I’ve always liked them both, but maybe like the book a lot. But Amanda Pete [00:14:00] mentioned, um, because I guess they both been confused for other people or whatever that like on the, they weren’t like, uh, some fashion week show or whatever, and somebody like called her lake. [00:14:11] And so, yeah, so, uh, like some paparazzi person, whatever. So she’s, she’s been confused for like bell by other people. So you’re not alone. [00:14:20] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I, I like I’m way better than my partner owl is at recognizing movie stars. Uh, but not that good. [00:14:35] Christina: No, but they look a lot alike and they star in similar things and it would make sense that you would think in a world because, you know, that’s a county thing, but lake Bell’s great. We she’s, uh, on, uh, she was in children’s hospital, which old [00:14:47] Brett: I forgot about that. Yeah. [00:14:50] Christina: Which w which old school, uh, Overtired listeners will know. [00:14:53] Brett: uh, uh, David Wayne did and, and, uh, and Rob Corddry did a followup [00:15:00] recently. And I can’t remember what it was called now, but it was, it was like just a Netflix release. Um, but she showed up in it and I’m pretty sure [00:15:10] Christina: That’s so funny. Um, yeah, I loved, I loved children’s hospital that was before. [00:15:18] Brett: if you’re into that kind of humor, it was, [00:15:20] Christina: you are you, it was, it was it was funny. Cause it was, it was very satirical and, um, [00:15:25] Brett: you ever got into this state, [00:15:27] Christina: yeah, exactly what that was going to say. It was completely this, uh, of the states, Allie was again like David Wayne, you know, sort of thing. And then your friend Rob Corddry. Um, and then, uh, it started, uh, the, um, the chick that they killed off from the Kevin James TV show. [00:15:43] Do you remember that drama? Okay. So, so Kevin James, they like gave him another like family. TV series, um, called Kevin can wait, um, on CBS. And this was like something that aired after, you know, king of Queens, which of course, you know, it was like the show that [00:16:00] made him famous or whatever, and it didn’t do that well. [00:16:04] Um, or things weren’t working, but she, but it, Erin Hayes was, was the actress and she was like the other kind of female lead who was on children’s hospital, the other Burnett. Okay. Who was very funny. Well, they cast her as his wife. Right. It seems like great, you know, kind of gig. Ratings aren’t working, whatever. [00:16:26] So they decided to just fucking kill off the wife over the summer. They decide to not bring her back. And so they fire her in a really shitty way. And then they decided to kill off the wife and they decide and said like Lear Remedy’s character or like Leah Remini, who of course was with Kevin, um, uh, James for forever on, um, king of Queens. [00:16:43] They’d bought her in at the end of the season to try to like goose ratings. And like she played a sister or some shit. And they realized, well, actually we kind of like the two of them together better. So we’re just going to kill off the wife, even though she was playing his sister. So the retooled, the show, they bring it back over the summer and they decide, and then the way the Inez, the pro public was just like really [00:17:00] shitty. [00:17:00] They were like, Yeah. [00:17:00] So Kevin’s wife died now, even though the whole thing is about like his family life. And then they decided the show is going to take place. A few months after his wife died and they just like casually mention it, like in a really awkward way. And like th th th the setup, and then like immediately go into a joke and then she’s like never mentioned [00:17:19] Brett: Oh my God. [00:17:20] Christina: was, it was like, I mean, that’s shit that they would do in the eighties. Like, even [00:17:25] Brett: that’s some bad planning and writing [00:17:27] Christina: it is, it is like, like, like fucking fucking the Hogan family, which had been called Valerie, like after Valerie Harper. And then they fucking took her name off the show and fired her. And then she sued NBC and all that stuff. [00:17:40] Even, they had to deal with several episodes for the fact that like, the mom died in a car accident. Like even they steadily dealt with like the death of like one of the main characters better. And that was, that was like 25 years before, 30, 30 years before, or whatever the case may be. So, yeah, that was completely one of [00:18:00] those, um, like in the Pantheon. [00:18:03] What are poor ways that the characters have been written out of shows? Most of the examples are from the eighties and nineties, because that makes sense. And then fucking Kevin can wait, comes in. Um, uh, it, it was, it was created by, um, the Bruce Helford who created the drew Carey show. Um, and, and a lot of other those types of things. [00:18:26] And they fucking came in and killed off the wife in the second season, just being like, so six months ago, my wife died and like the way they made it seem it was, it was that a letter came with her name and then they just made a joke. Can you believe that six months after she died in that tragic accident, you’re still getting her mail. [00:18:42] Ha [00:18:44] Brett: Oh, my God. [00:18:45] Christina: like I didn’t watch the show. Totally. I didn’t watch the show, but I did like, remember that drama and then I was like, wow, that’s some shit. [00:18:55] Brett: I want to get back to talking about TV because well, it also mental health is part of [00:19:00] why I want to talk about TV, but, um, but could you, uh, take a moment and tell us about Zack doc? Do you have. [00:19:06] Sponsor: Zocdoc [00:19:06] Christina: can absolutely tell us about Zoc doc. Yes. So has this ever happened to you? You need to see a doctor you search and find one that looks good. And, uh, you wait on hold to book the appointment, you rearrange your schedule, and then when you finally go in, you find out the doctor doesn’t even take your insurance. [00:19:27] So completely. Infuriating. Okay. But there shouldn’t be, it shouldn’t be this way. And there is a solution you can just download free Zoc doc app. And it’s the easiest way to find a great doctor and instantly book an appointment. So with doc doc, you can search for local doctors who take your insurance, which is so great. [00:19:49] Read, verified, patient reviews and book that appointment in person or video chat. So you never have. [00:19:55] to wait on hold with the receptionist ever again. And so whether you need a primary [00:20:00] care physician at dentist dermatologist, a psychiatrist and eye doctor, or another specialist, Zoc doc has you covered. So go to Zoc doc.com/ Overtired and download the Zoc doc app to sign up for free every month. [00:20:16] Millions of people use doc doc, and I’m one of them I’ve been using Zoc doc for over a decade. When I moved to New York city, one of the very few. Pieces of advice. This is absolutely true. This is not part of the sponsor read. When I first moved to New York city, I got some advice from people like how to survive. [00:20:32] And like the two that stuck out to me were like, you’re going to get on seamless, which grub, hub, whatever, and, and get on Zoc doc and Zoc doc completely and utterly like saved my ass. So, because it takes the process of trying to find a doctor who takes your insurance and book an appointment, it takes all that pain away. [00:20:53] So I’m big fan. Um, so go to Zoc [00:21:00] doc.com. That’s Z O C D O c.com/ Overtired. [00:21:06] Thrilling pre-tax conversation abounds [00:21:06] Brett: Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Let’s see. When was that? I went to, I went to an oral surgeon last [00:21:15] Christina: that go? Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cause you had to have some shit with your teeth done. How did that [00:21:18] Brett: I apparently have excellent, uh, bone growth. Oh, my God, they do this thing. When I first got there, they made me stand in front of this mirror with my chin on a platform. And this x-ray machine like spun around my head. And then when I sat down with the doctor, he brings up this 3d rendering of my skull and he can like turn it. [00:21:44] And he’s like showing me where everything is in there. What’s beeping. [00:21:49] Christina: I don’t know, dude. [00:21:50] Brett: Did you hear that? [00:21:52] Christina: No. [00:21:52] Brett: Oh, Jesus. It’s it’s in my head. Um, but he he’s like spinning this 3d rendering of my skull around and [00:22:00] it’s so cool. And like, anyway, it went well, I’m getting implants in December. I’ll be getting implants drilled into my jaw. [00:22:11] Christina: Nice. [00:22:12] Brett: Yeah. [00:22:13] Christina: that’ll be painful, but it’ll be good. And it’s good. They’re doing it in December or to maximize your, Um, [00:22:18] like oral surgeon, like, like your insurance thing. See, good segue. Because insurance even good insurance, they have like a cap on how much they’ll cover for dental shit. So if [00:22:30] Brett: They’ll cover a year, [00:22:32] Christina: yeah, [00:22:33] Brett: but I mean, but I have a flex spending account that has like six grand in it. So I get zero fucks. [00:22:39] Christina: yeah, no, that’s good. Now does your flex spending account, does that carry over or do you have [00:22:43] Brett: Yes. Carrie’s over at four now. Uh, like they made special allowances for like pandemic era. [00:22:50] Christina: got it. [00:22:51] Brett: they’re allowing us to carry over all of our savings accounts. [00:22:55] Christina: Nice. Yeah. [00:22:56] because this is why I don’t do a flex spending account. I do have an HSA, [00:23:00] but I, don’t do a flex spending account because most of the time they make you use them. And if you don’t, then you’re fucked. And then there’s like this whole list of things that you can spend things on, but then there’s this whole list of things you can’t. [00:23:12] And so if you haven’t spent it, you wind up spending like hundreds of dollars on shit at fucking Walgreens, because you’re like, I’m going to lose my money. [00:23:23] Brett: I knew I had this thousands of dollars worth of teeth replacement coming up. So I went for the FSA this year. Um, I may not, once I have my teeth taken care of, although I have a, my mouth, I like, I always have something wrong with my teeth always. So it’s kinda not a bad idea for me to always have a couple of grand available for fixing my mind. [00:23:47] Christina: No, totally. Like, it’s not, um, it’s not a bad idea, but like I said, I prefer the HSA versus the FSA. Although there, I don’t know what the differences are in terms of like what benefit it is to you because like the health [00:24:00] savings account doesn’t expire and is just like any sort of investment account. But whereas the flux Spain accounts, it might be the tax impact. [00:24:08] I’m not really sure. Uh, I think that’s what it is. I think that, that, that, like you don’t get taxed for the FSA stuff. Um, but I, I made the mistake again when I was in New York of, of having an FSA for a couple of things. One time it was for. Transit things because we were, well, the way the FSA works is we were supposed to get like a monthly, like pass, like it was supposed to give us our Metro card. [00:24:36] And then for some reason, Mine like the system didn’t work. And cause we were supposed to get them from like our employer and a specific amount of this account. And then it stopped working. And so I had to like buy it myself. And then I was like left with this fucked up situation. I had like double MetroCards, which is not helpful if you get the monthly pass. [00:24:54] Cause the way the Metro card monthly pass works is it’s like $106 a month or something, but you get unlimited [00:25:00] passes and that’s great. Um, and if you take the subway twice a day, every day, You know, minimum, then it pays, it’s like a thing that you should pay for. Um, but, um, it got to the point where it like, wasn’t, I wasn’t getting them and I had to like call and deal with all the stuff. [00:25:18] And then the whatever benefits we were using, like, yeah, we’re not going to use the FSA. Oh, I wrote, it was the fucking state of New York. Real was like, yeah. Um, transit stuff is no longer going to be FSA eligible because that’s not something that people need or anything. So, [00:25:34] Brett: Mine is only for dental and vision. [00:25:38] Christina: Oh, [00:25:38] Brett: nothing else. I can’t like I tried to use the card at the pharmacy and it, it declines it [00:25:44] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. They have really weird rules about that stuff. So again, this is why I [00:25:49] Brett: it’s confusing because they sent me two cards and one says health spending account. And the other one says health savings account. So remembering which one is for the [00:26:00] HSA and which one is for the FSA. Like I’ve kind of, I’ve got it figured out now. Like I use the right card, but sometimes I have to ask them to like try twice. [00:26:08] One of these cards is going to work and one isn’t. [00:26:11] Christina: Right, right. Yeah, [00:26:12] yeah, [00:26:13] no, totally. Um, actually that’s a reminder to me. I need to get my health spending account, like the card expired and I need to get it renewed. Um, cause it’s like a MasterCard or whatever. Um, so I’ve just been submitting stuff manually, but I need to just have them send me a new one. [00:26:25] Um, but yeah. I, um, I don’t, I, I don’t do the FSA. I do the HSA, but I do understand why, like, if you’ve got the dental stuff coming up, like it can be a very good tax, like purpose thing, the way our insurance works. I don’t know how yours works, but, um, they cover most of it. So they, they give me like a certain amount that they fund the HSA with each year that covers most of the, um, like, um, minimum for the insurance. [00:26:59] [00:27:00] And then I’m not charged anything monthly. [00:27:01] Mental Health Corner [00:27:01] Brett: yeah. Same. Um, what was I going to say? I forget I had, I had relevant information, but my brain is moving ahead to other things. How’s your mental health? [00:27:16] Christina: Um, well, I mean, I’m not sleeping, so that could be a good or a bad thing. I don’t know. [00:27:21] Brett: never a good thing. [00:27:22] Christina: I mean, it’s probably [00:27:23] Brett: Never again thing. [00:27:24] Christina: it’s probably not. Um, it’s okay. I guess it’s the fucking end of the year. Um, but yeah, [00:27:34] Brett: Yeah. I, I [00:27:36] Christina: my birthday’s next week [00:27:37] Brett: oh yeah. You’re going to be like 27. Right? [00:27:41] Christina: 29. [00:27:42] Brett: Cool. Congratulations. [00:27:43] Christina: Thank you. I’m very excited about, about, um, being a 29, um, you know, I’m still not 30. So that’s, that’s an important thing for me. Um, I don’t know. Am I, am I, am I have 30th birthday in Vegas next [00:28:00] year? I’m not sure. I might wind up [00:28:02] Brett: You’re never going to have a 30th birthday. [00:28:06] Christina: Probably not. Although, [00:28:07] Brett: suddenly be 48 skin to skin. You’re all. You’re, you’re never you’re 29 until. [00:28:16] Christina: well, that’s why I might have 30th birthday next year. [00:28:20] Brett: Okay. [00:28:23] Christina: Um, so yeah, but no, I’m, I’m I’m uh, I still got a birthday coming up. That’s weird. I don’t really like aging. I used to like my birthday, but now it just is a reminder that like my Dorian grade year with deal with the double, like it’s working so far, but I don’t know how long-term, it’s gonna work. [00:28:40] Brett: Sure. [00:28:42] Christina: Um, I got some Botox when I was in Atlanta and I’m getting more when I go back for Thanksgiving, which I appreciate, um, a, it helps my, my, my migraines, um, that is legitimately true. [00:28:55] And I have bad migraines, but B make no [00:29:00] mistake. The primary reason that I get it is because I want to limit like the look of aging and it’s not like I look all plastic or anything, but it is one of those things. Like I actually regret not getting into my twenties because it is preventative. So to any, um, uh, people in their twenties who are vain, like me out there who Are listening, start getting Botox, even if you don’t need it. [00:29:21] And even if you’re like me and you actually do look pre naturally young, just, just start getting it. It’s not a bad thing. Um, it’ll help your migraines. And, um, it’ll also, uh, like lessen the impact of other stuff. It’s it’s not bad. [00:29:37] Brett: are we from voting plastic surgery at Overtired now? [00:29:40] Christina: Botox. It’s not plastic surgery and, but yes we are. I have no problem. Plastic surgery. [00:29:46] Brett: cosmetic. [00:29:48] Christina: do, do you, I’m probably going to get a boot shop, Um, uh, slash Lyft. I’ve decided I want that. Um, it sucks. I can’t make it a business expense. Um, [00:29:58] Brett: I am getting [00:30:00] vaginal rejuvenation. [00:30:01] Christina: I mean, I would like that too. I don’t know. Actually, my friend Ashley got that. Um, she got like a, did she get the whole, oh no, she didn’t get that. But she wants to, she wants to get the whole mommy makeover thing, which is when they give you like a tummy tuck and they’d give you like the vaginal rejuvenation. [00:30:16] and something else, but she wants to do it in, in Texas. [00:30:21] I think she liked the surgeon or some shit, but the problem is, is that like the recovery is kind of intense. So it’s one of those things where, I mean, her husband could take care of the baby and stuff, but it was one of those things where at least when she was thinking about getting it at one point. I might need you to like, watch the dogs and my older son and stuff. [00:30:40] If I do this and I was like, yeah, cool, whatever you do you, um, because like you can’t immediately get on a plane, you know? Um, yeah, no, I mean, I’m, I’m probably aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Why wouldn’t we be like, I’m not saying that everyone should go out and do it. I’m saying if you’re vain, like me, [00:31:00] Botox is probably a good idea. [00:31:01] And the younger you do it, the better, this is objectively true. It’s also reversible. So it’s not a big deal if you’re not a fan of it, but like why wouldn’t we be a fan of people make on their own decisions deciding to get cosmetic [00:31:14] Brett: Hey, I’m not judging. I just didn’t realize that’s where the podcasts had gone. I didn’t, I didn’t realize we were taking a stance on this at all. [00:31:22] Christina: okay, well look, we are not. Christina is Christina who has been very firm about this for as long as she can remember is very much like in favor of. You do you do some people go too far and does it become unhealthy? Yes. In most cases though, like, fuck, if you don’t think that every single person that you look at on television or the movies has worked on, you were completely full of shit. [00:31:49] Like I would pay so much money and I will put this out on the pod. I’m very sure that we do not have listeners to have this connection. However, people might surprise me if you know who Reese [00:32:00] Witherspoon’s person is, I will pay a significant amount of money for the name. Um, I’m not asking for an appointment. [00:32:06] I’m asking for the name of the doctor. I will do my own begging pleading, whatever to get in with doctor. But if you know, whoever we should put the spoons like Dr is because her work is fucking great. Cause she looks amazing. It’s not, plastic-y looking, it doesn’t look fake. Like it looks fucking excellent. [00:32:23] Um, [00:32:24] Brett: not, you’re not going to get that answer. [00:32:26] Christina: No, I I’m not, but I’m putting it out there because I I’m putting this out there, like on lots of podcasts, because I’m trying to get this information out there. I’m not, I’m trying, I’m doing everything I can except for tweeting it because I don’t want to, like, that’s too obvious, but like, no, it’s not even Gosha, it’s just, I mean, I don’t care. [00:32:42] I heavily literally have no shame about this. I just feel like that might backfire. Um, cause I feel like this is the sort of information that like, this is why I’m saying I would pay thousands of dollars for it because I feel like this is the sort of information that is highly, highly privileged because obviously [00:33:00] everyone knows reasonably it’s been, all of them get work done, like it. [00:33:03] And no one judges them for, Okay. [00:33:05] Some people judge them for it, but the people who judge them for it are fucking assholes and probably look terrible themselves. So fuck you. But you know, you. They don’t want to promote the doctor and the doctor certainly can’t put it on the website or any of that. You know what I mean? [00:33:19] Like this is like, these are people that like, I need to know who the nip tuck guy is to go back to television for a minute. Like, um, and there’s a Sarah Paulson connection here all goes full solar circle because Ryan Murphy created nip tuck, which is a very problematic show when you watch it in 2021, however, it’s fucking fun 15 years ago. [00:33:40] Um, but I want to know like who those guys are. They were in Miami, but like, I know. I will go to Miami. I presume I would have to go to Los Angeles completely fine. I don’t care. Like, um, I would prefer to stay in the United States, uh, just because I would like to have legal recourse in case someone fucks up my face, which if you [00:34:00] go to Asia will not happen. [00:34:02] Even though the Asian surgeons are fucking great. And I have looked at doing, like when I was in Korea last year for a, um, uh, like layover. This was right when coronavirus was really starting to take off and I was supposed to go to Singapore and then my Singapore trip was canceled while I was in Australia. [00:34:19] And I had to fly home through Singapore and South Korea. And I was in the airport for like 12 hours. And I was actually looking at like, could I get an appointment, like at one of the medical spas, you know, to get some sort of stuff done, but it just, it didn’t work out. Um, but they do do those things and people like plastic surgery, tourism. [00:34:40] I know that this is, not what you want to just talk about, [00:34:42] Brett: this is, this is as exciting as talking about Taylor swift for me. [00:34:46] Christina: I know, but, but, but this is actually fascinating when we think about how fucked up like our whole like global, but especially in the United States, like our healthcare system is there’s a whole medical tourism industry. And like we’ve people know about this, I think in [00:35:00] terms of like getting prescription drugs and other stuff, but it exists for plastic surgery. [00:35:05] It exists for cosmetic procedures and not just for the cost, although the cost is definitely a part of it. Um, it also, uh, is sometimes for the results. And then there are people who might not have health insurance, or might not have insurance that will cover certain types of procedures. Like people who need to get like, um, uh, like, uh, um, uh, GRS, um, or SRS, whatever you want to call it. [00:35:27] Um, things, a lot of times people go to Thailand, um, and, and pay a lot of money to do that because their insurance companies will send them to like actual butchers who will do. Who have terrible results and do terrible things to people who just need, like they’re confirming surgeries. So people like will literally fight other countries and, and deal with language barriers and whatnot, because that is the state of the healthcare industry. for me. [00:35:55] to be clear, I’m talking about completely, like, for my purposes, like [00:36:00] completely optional, um, surgeries, [00:36:03] Brett: Elective. Um, [00:36:05] Christina: That’s the word. Thank you. [00:36:06] Brett: I, uh, yeah, this has been a weird mental health corner. I, uh, I’m, I’m gonna tell you, like, so I had just like four days of depression, um, uh, like, which really very short, uh, and then like yesterday, it just, it, it just lifted and like suddenly life was bright and shiny and I was making fish tacos cause I eat fish now. [00:36:32] And, um, and I’m really, really good at tacos. I don’t know if I’ve ever talked about this before, but [00:36:38] Christina: but I but, but, but you’re going to [00:36:40] Brett: I am amazing at tacos. I make. [00:36:42] Christina: this a double entendre? [00:36:44] Brett: No, don’t be, don’t be going. [00:36:48] Christina: Sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry, Ella. Wasn’t trying to be disrespectful. [00:36:52] Let’s Talk About Lynch [00:36:52] Brett: No, I make really good toppings. I, uh, and, and like, so I had a week of like catching up on TV, [00:37:00] um, watching John Stewart’s new show, uh, getting into I’ve been trying to get into foundation, but it hasn’t, it’s not sticking super well for me. [00:37:12] Christina: I’ve had problems with it too. Although people tell me. good thing. [00:37:14] Brett: And I want to see the new dune, like I’ve heard very mixed reviews, like, like both blowing and horrible. [00:37:23] Uh, like for me, anything would be more watchable than the David Lynch version. [00:37:30] Christina: That is that for a nerd podcast? That’s a take Brett. That’s a take. [00:37:36] Brett: I mean, okay. So I have a lot of appreciation for his attempt to fit dune, even just the first book into a movie. It just, it, it wasn’t meant to be done. They call it an unfilmable story. So respect for trying. And when it comes to like casting of like the Baron and, and [00:38:00] sting and, and he did a great job with the worms, like there was so much to love about that movie, but overall it was unwatchable. [00:38:10] Like I try, like I had good memories of it. Like I, I, cause I was a huge fan, but then I tried to show it to L [00:38:19] Christina: Oh yeah, [00:38:20] Brett: sit down and watch it last year with Al and it did not go. [00:38:24] Christina: no. Okay. So, Hey, you’re right. It is one of those heart adaptations, um, B because he’s David Lynch. [00:38:32] there is this additional expectation that is probably a little bit unfair, but look, when you create twin peaks and when you direct Mulholland drive, which is coming out criteria in addition, fuck. [00:38:44] Yes. I’m so excited on 4k. Blu-ray very soon. I’m so excited. Um, and, and you did, you know, blue velvet and like some of his other films, like, you know, he’s, he’s an Altura right. Um, I interviewed him. I do too. I interviewed him [00:39:00] once and it was great. Um, even though I was just allowed to talk to him about transcendental meditation, [00:39:05] Brett: I saw a racer head like four times and that’s a lot for a racer. [00:39:08] Christina: That is a lot for a racer head. I think I’ve only seen it twice, but you’re right. It is a flawed film. Um, and, and then there have been, like, there was the TV ministry, like it has been difficult. Um, I’ve seen it. I’m probably somewhere in the middle. I certainly don’t think it’s the greatest film. I hear I’m hearing music. [00:39:27] Brett: It’s not music. It’s this goddamn bunch test I had running in the background and it’s like, I was testing scheduled bunches and there was an 1145 bunch scheduled that I forgot was running. So now my Mac mini is like, alerting me that scheduled bunches are actually working anyway. Please continue. [00:39:49] Christina: Um, so yeah, uh, I feel like it’s somewhere in the middle. Like I don’t feel like it is a phenomenal film. I also don’t think that it’s hot, garbage. [00:40:00] It is very clearly. You know, they’re making too. And that is very clearly like the thing [00:40:06] Brett: Well, you have to, you can’t fit all [00:40:08] Christina: no, you can’t. I agree completely, which is the right move, right? [00:40:12] This was the right. This is kind of the opposite of the way that you, you remember. I mean, it started with the Harry Potter stuff, but like the way that the studios would get around the fact that there were big, like why franchises were about to end is that they would turn the books into two movies. [00:40:28] Brett: Oh, totally. [00:40:29] Christina: Right? So, so like Harry Potter and the whatever part, one part two, cause like Warner brothers is like, we never want this to end, are you sure? You can’t write more books? And, and, and then they were finally able to come and start to like write prequels and shit, which they’ve made multiple films into single ones. [00:40:44] And they said th th they did the same thing for Twilight and the same thing for hunger games, hunger games, I think actually. Those films were way better than they had any right. To be. Also, those books were way better than they had any right. To be sorry for a tangent. But in this case I’m like, so ADHD [00:41:00] right now. [00:41:00] Um, but, um, I’m having manic energy, even though I’m not manic, but, um, June, Yeah. it needs to be two films, but because it’s two, it’s one of those rare things. It’s like, I didn’t know how they were going to split it kind of like the Lord of the rings trilogy or whatever, you know what I mean? Like, you know, kind of where it is. [00:41:18] And so it is kind of a weird, I guess, kind of going into it from that perspective. You’re like, well, I don’t know. It makes it difficult to judge when you know, that is, it is genuinely Like one part of like a multi-part thing. You know what I mean? Like, like to me, I don’t feel like I [00:41:36] Brett: Like you have to reserve judgment until you’ve seen the whole [00:41:39] Christina: Yes, that’s completely it. [00:41:40] Like, I honestly feel like I do. I, and I don’t feel like that’s a cop out. Like, I, I feel like, um, the, the Lord of the rings films, there were more obvious places where you would end, you know, that sort of stuff. Dune it’s a little bit like I, cause I could go into him like you could, you could end this in a number of places, you know, where, where do you want to [00:42:00] do this? [00:42:00] Um, but I enjoy the cast very, very much, you know, they, they cast incredibly well and um, I, uh, you should definitely watch it while it’s on HBO [00:42:13] Brett: Yeah, right. Well, it’s also on my Plex. Thanks to my, my bevy of friends with the latest movies. Um, [00:42:21] Christina: even better, [00:42:22] Brett: what, uh, w how much of the dune series did you read? [00:42:27] Christina: dude. You know what? I don’t even remember. Um, [00:42:30] Brett: I ate those books up. I read the whole seven or nine. I don’t remember, like, it went off the rails, like pretty soon, like they’re having worm babies and shit, and it [00:42:41] Christina: yeah, I did not. I did not read a whole, I read the original And that might’ve been it to be completely honest. It might’ve read a couple more of [00:42:55] Brett: I read the encyclopedia. Like he wrote an [00:42:58] Christina: I’m [00:42:59] Brett: before he [00:43:00] built the whole world. Frank Herbert was crazy. [00:43:03] Christina: Yeah, no, I’m looking this up right now. Frank river was crazy. [00:43:05] that the June encyclopedia, which is, uh, the dudents like a PD is a 1984 collection of essays written by Lou McNeely and other contributors to, as a companion to Frank her’s dune series of science fiction novels. [00:43:18] That’s that’s an N honestly, this is again, I think why like that the, the David Lynch thing is, it’s a shame that it is flawed. I don’t think it’s unwatchable, but it is flawed because fucking Frank Herber and David Lynch are the exact same type of person. Like they are the ex you know what I mean? Like, like it’s a shame that, that David’s adaptation didn’t work. [00:43:37] And it in, when, when, when he made, you know, the adaptation in 1984, they did not allow him to do multiple films. It was 84. [00:43:47] Brett: I thought it was 89. Wow. [00:43:48] Christina: No, it is 84. Yeah. Um, 89 was with twin peaks. Um, Uh, which again, see, this is why, like, they’re the same fucking type of a creative asshole. Like, and I don’t mean, I don’t [00:44:00] actually think either of them are assholes, but you know what I mean? [00:44:01] I’m using that as a, as a loving term, not as like a judgy term, because he wrote the secret diary will actually, his daughter wrote the secret diary of Laura Palmer, the tie-in book, twin peaks. Do you ever this [00:44:14] Brett: it sounds familiar, but no. [00:44:17] Christina: Okay. So I remember this because this is how I got into twin peaks, like years and years after it was canceled. [00:44:23] So I was in sixth grade and my, my friend, Mikey, his older sister had the twin peaks diary that came out, I think in, I want to say in like 1990, when the show was like, you know, at its peak, like, like, like, like peak twin peak shit. And it was lower Palmer’s diary, which they referenced in which they referenced in the series and it is this kind of fucked up diary and I’m 12 and I’m reading this stuff and like there’s some sex and alcohol and other stuff, but there’s also like this whole thing about how this guy comes into our house, like at night [00:45:00] and fucking like molest her and rapes her and shit. [00:45:02] And it’s really dark. And I’m like, what is this? And then it ends like with this note that like, this was the final entry in her diary. And then she was found dead wrapped in plastic and I’m like, holy shit, what is this. And that was my introduction to the TV series. And at that point, I don’t even know, I think it was another year or so before they would air the reruns on Bravo. [00:45:26] So there was a couple of years, and this was back when Bravo aired like highbrow shit. Um, which is hilarious to me when I think back on that. Um, cause it, Bravo used to be like an arts and entertainment network, like a very high brow, like cable PBS sort of thing. Um, and, and now it’s, you know, um, I mean it’s, it’s fantastic trash, but [00:45:49] Brett: Yeah. It’s reality TV now. [00:45:52] Christina: but, but I mean, not just reality, he’s the fucking Housewives. [00:45:54] It is, it Is the trashiest of trash, right? Like it is, it is, you know what I mean? Like. They [00:46:00] embrace and love, and God bless you, Andy Cohen. But it was just funny, but it was a couple of years before I actually ever saw the TV show. And so my first introduction had been from this tie in book, which was released around the same time the series came out, it was written by his daughter and in it’s good as high in books go. [00:46:18] But it, you know, I had no context for the rest of this. And then I was like, what the fuck? You know? Cause I’m 12 and, and it’s, it’s a lot of shit for a 12 year old, but it was also like, it felt kind of like subversive and naughty to be reading, you know, it was like, it was, [00:46:35] Brett: about. [00:46:36] Christina: yeah, it was, it was like a VC Andrews book, but without incest, well, oh no. [00:46:39] Okay. There was [00:46:40] Brett: you appreciate about me? Sorry [00:46:43] Christina: No, I don’t. I, I mean, when you, you appreciate that I was reading like subversive, weird shit, like at 12. [00:46:49] Brett: you were into shit. That was that weird. Yes. That was some pretty weird shit for a 12 year old. [00:46:55] Christina: You’re not wrong. And especially when it’s based on a TV show, who’s like [00:47:00] moment in the sun was like five years earlier. Right. So, you know what I mean? So like, like the, the cultural phenomenon point of twin peaks had, I’m not even sure if I was even aware of, I might’ve heard the name, you know, but, but I mean, but like literally that cultural moment completely missed it because I was in first grade. [00:47:17] Um, but then I got into the book and that was what got me into the TV series. And then for a long time, like it wasn’t available on DVD or anything else. Um, uh, so like I watched it on Bravo and then I found like bootlegs on the internet and stuff. Anyway, I got really into like the fandom. So that was I’m sorry. [00:47:36] That was like a very ADHD, like weird tangent based on dune. [00:47:39] Sponsor: Upstart [00:47:39] Brett: great. I’m going to take a little break to talk about our next sponsor, but then I have a, I have a short walk to that that will take us from twin peaks to, uh, to somewhere else, not too far away, but in the meantime, if you dread looking at your credit card statements, you’re not alone, debt can feel crippling. [00:47:56] I recently went from barely keeping up with my credit card [00:48:00] payments to having zero credit card balance and fixed monthly payments. And now I’m on my way to it on my way to debt-free and it’s thanks to upstart. Absurd is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan, all online, whether it’s paying off credit cards, consolidating. [00:48:17] Interests that or funding personal expenses over half a million people have used upsert to get a simple, fixed monthly payment. Like I said, I’m an upstart customer. I got a loan approved get money the next day. And I wiped out a pretty significant credit card debt. I feel like so much more in control of my finances now. [00:48:36] And my credit score is back to excellent. I’m quite happy with the situation and I’m saving thousands on what I would have paid in interest on the cards. With a five minute online rate check. You can see your rate upfront for loans between 1000 and $50,000. And you can have your money in a day or two, find out how upsert can lower your monthly payments today. [00:48:57] When you go to upstart.com/ [00:49:00] Overtired, that’s upstart.com/ Overtired, and don’t forget to use our URLs. So they know that we sent you loan amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other information provided in your loan application, go to upstart.com/ Overtired. So, you know what else happened in 1989 [00:49:20] Christina: What’s that [00:49:21] Brett: drugstore cowboy? [00:49:23] Christina: fucking great [00:49:24] Brett: Yeah. And, and, and [00:49:26] Christina: Gus van Sant, man, [00:49:27] Brett: yes, Gus van Sant. And that Dylan [00:49:30] Christina: Matt Dillon and, uh, Kelly, um, Kelly Lynch. [00:49:34] Brett: was it really. [00:49:35] Christina: Yeah. [00:49:36] Brett: Cool. Yeah. So this, this all starts to tie together because a couple years back, five years back, uh, he was in a series called wayward Pines. Did you see wayward Pines? [00:49:49] Christina: I’ve I did not ever see wayward [00:49:51] Brett: I don’t know if it was directly a callback to, uh, uh, twin peaks, but it [00:50:00] definitely, it, a secret service agent goes to wayward Pines, Idaho in search of two federal agents who have gone missing and the bucolic town. [00:50:08] He soon learns that he may never get out of wayward Pines alive. It is a crazy, bizarre conspiratorial show. I recommend it. It was worth seeing [00:50:22] Christina: Okay. I, I will, I will watch that we were Pines. Okay. Um, [00:50:27] Brett: on the Fox network. [00:50:29] Christina: on the flocks number. Okay. Um, I like Matt, Dylan. I’ve always liked Matt Dylan. [00:50:33] Brett: Yeah. [00:50:33] Christina: Drugs. Yeah. Drugstore cowboy fucking great film. Like genuinely like really, really good, [00:50:39] Brett: of my early romanticization of, of drugs in general, [00:50:44] Christina: Yeah. Cause it would be, it’d be that film. It would be maybe the basketball diaries. [00:50:49] What would other ones be train? Oh yeah. Transplanting for sure. For sure. Um, there are, yeah, I’m trying to think. Cause I never did [00:51:00] drugs, uh, or hard drugs anyway. I mean like, I, I, well, I didn’t, [00:51:03] Brett: know [00:51:04] Christina: I w I know [00:51:05] I mean, I think most people who would, unfortunately, I’m very straight edge, um, and cocaine has no impact on me. [00:51:11] It was just such a shame because it’d be so fun. [00:51:13] Brett: that’s how I feel about weed. [00:51:15] Christina: yeah. Um, I mean, I, so weed itself, like smoking doesn’t do much. I do enjoy edibles. Um, but that’s about it. Uh, edibles are fun. Uh, at least when, when you take them knowingly, when your colleague hands you some chocolate and you don’t know that it’s be chocolate until you’re halfway digesting it, and then someone tells you that it is, and you’re not really sure. [00:51:39] And You just continue eating the chocolate and then you have to, like, you have like a 30 minute period between you’re like, did I just take 25 milligrams of edibles? Or did I not? Yeah. [00:51:54] Brett: You could really feel it when you stand up. [00:51:57] Christina: I mean, it takes you 30 minutes, it takes you an hour or [00:52:00] longer to leave the office. And someone has to escort you to the Uber No, these are all real things that really happened. Um, funny story about that. I wanted to include that in the roast for the person who did it to me when, um, Uh, [00:52:12] so she left her her job and went to another one. [00:52:15] And like, there was a tradition which management has since ended where people would roast departing staffers. Who’d been at like the, the Gawker properties for a long time. And people would send in the memories and like roast them that has since stopped. But, um, but, but they did do one for, for Alex Cranz. [00:52:34] Um, but her whole thing, it was, um, contentious because they fired her. And it, that was in the subject of like a, um, uh, an NLRB complaint because they fired her for union activity essentially. Um, and, uh, so she was fighting them on that. And she was also at the same time, like she’d been negotiating, like starting another job as a terrible thing.[00:53:00] [00:53:00] Anyway, because of that, my roast, where I was like, this bitch drugged me, that was not included in the roast because they were, it was too hot for Gawker for, for, for, for even Gawker solvers. They were like, we can’t include this in the official Gizmodo roast. And I was very disappointed by that. I was like, so I was somehow MI was like too controversial for the artists, formerly known as Gawker media, which is really funny. [00:53:24] Like, I, I actually, um, I appreciate that. [00:53:28] On Irreverent Corporate Tweets [00:53:28] Brett: and so can I talk about work for a sec? [00:53:31] Christina: Please talk [00:53:31] Brett: Speaking of being too controversial. So we have this mandate, like our, as like the dev REL. Division. We have this mandate to be irreverent. This is a word that gets tossed around all the time and they want everything that comes out of our group to be irreverent, but they’ve never really provided us with solid examples of what that means. [00:53:54] And in my head, it goes to like, Wendy’s like Twitter account, um, with [00:54:00] like snarky, but I don’t know enough about Oracle services and the developers that use it more specifically. I don’t know enough about their life to really hit the funny bone with snark related to cloud services. So I’m like desperately hoping that someone will just point to something and say, this is what we’re talking about. [00:54:23] Christina: Oh, well, I can tell you exactly what they’re talking about. [00:54:26] Brett: Oh, do tell. [00:54:27] Christina: Okay. So this is from, um, so disclosure, uh, I know both the people who made this and the girl who was the star of it. Um, ironically, she does not work for GitHub. She used to work at Microsoft. She now works at Amazon, but she was great in it. Get hub universe this past couple of weeks was. [00:54:43] Amazing. They did a really, really good job with it. And they did like a five minute thing on dev ops. That was a complete homage slash parody of one division. And it sounds cringe, but it was not cringe at all. It was like [00:55:00] brilliant where they had Emily. It was the sort of thing where you would enjoy it, even if you didn’t get all the one division things. [00:55:06] But like they had her like starting in like the sixties, like in black and white and talking about how they used to do like dev ops types things, then going into the seventies then going into like the nineties and then going into like the modern era. It was incredibly, incredibly well done and like irreverence and self-referential and like kind of made fun of itself. [00:55:25] It was, that was really [00:55:26] Brett: Sure, but that’s like a whole like series. They weren’t me to, they, they hand me a cut and dry tweet. Like we’re going to tweet about this service and we want it to be a Reverend. So I am supposed to take this tweet about, Hey, we expanded the space you have for data science notebooks and turn it into something snarky. [00:55:49] Like, [00:55:49] Christina: Oh, okay. So, so, [00:55:51] Brett: with that? [00:55:52] Christina: okay, so, so, okay. Again, I’m just going to say, because they, who I hope they promoted this person. [00:56:00] Um, I think that? [00:56:02] this person is as responsible for Microsoft reimbursed re re um, embracing Clippy as like getting this reimbursed Clippy as me and Chloe Condon, which, uh, I would say like as actual public face and employees were probably the biggest open Clippy stands, the Microsoft Excel Twitter account is what you want to emulate. [00:56:19] I’m not even joking. [00:56:20] Brett: Microsoft Excel, Twitter account. Okay. I will take that advice and run with it. I gotta do something. Um, I’m drowning in this, like this mandate to be way funnier about things that I don’t find extremely humorous to begin [00:56:38] Christina: And to be clear, it is Ms. Excel, not Microsoft Excel, although the Microsoft Excel account, whoever registered it is hilarious because their username is, um, windows Vista and, um, their background thing is whoever does that. I, mean, that, that account is actually very irreverent. I, think that probably goes too far. [00:56:58] Um, but, [00:57:00] uh, I, uh, the, yeah, the Microsoft Excel sweater account is the same. It’s like, I’ve, I’ve said this before. It’s like the only good Twitter account and whatever intern they’ve had doing that one also, whoever is even running, I think that they gave that person, like the actual, like either the windows or the Microsoft handle. [00:57:18] Um, because it’s not as like, cause there’s this line there’s like brand sane bay, which was a. [00:57:28] Brett: Mm, [00:57:28] Christina: the, that we would drag people for, um, a long time ago where like, if you try too hard, like it comes across as just cringe and like out of touch, right? Like you don’t want to do that, but there is like a line where you can be funny. [00:57:43] Um, and [00:57:45] Brett: hold up. Wendy’s. [00:57:46] Christina: yes, [00:57:47] Brett: As, as an example of a corporate Twitter account that is like roll on the floor. Hilarious. [00:57:54] Christina: no, I agree with that. I agree with that. It’s just the thing is like, Wendy’s can obviously get away with some stuff that like Oracle [00:58:00] can’t, um, [00:58:02] Brett: and the, the topic matter is inherently funnier. [00:58:05] Christina: totally, totally. Um, but, uh, Yeah. [00:58:09] like I’m trying to find if there was like, there was, there was. But the Excel account will even respond to things. And they’re funny, like there was an example where, you know, people were asking like what your favorite thing is. And they responding to people like, you know, deciding if you were like putting in a data or a currency, like they totally dragged themselves. [00:58:25] And, um, there, there, there was a, there was a Lizzo kind of thing back when like Lizzo, uh, when a lot of lesbians were happening there, there are just things that I’m thinking of that were just like really The the Ms. Excel account is good. [00:58:37] Brett: The problem I’m running into with Oracle stuff is, I don’t know the frustrations, like, I don’t know these services well enough to even drag them because I don’t know the frustrations that people may have experienced that maybe like we moved beyond and now we can laugh about, I don’t know what [00:59:00] those are and that’s [00:59:00] Christina: No, No, it’s not I mean, look, if it were me, when in doubt, like I would, if it were me. [00:59:06] but I don’t know what you’re allowed to do and what not to do, I would always make fun of all the licensing shit. And all of the fact that you call your sales person, you need to figure out like how to do this technical thing, call your Oracle sales rep. [00:59:18] Like that would be my go-to joke to be completely honest. Um, I don’t know how comfortable they would be with that, but that would be the joke. Um, I would think honestly, um, I would think that like whether it’s true or not, and I think it’s probably less true than it used to be, but you know, that’s always, always the joke, which is like, you know, uh, you, you, you call your, your, your sales person and they’ll, there’ll be the ones who will sell it to you. [00:59:40] Right. Um, they’re what I would make a lot of sure. I would make a lot of Larry Ellison jokes. I would, I would, I would make a ton of iron man jokes. I mean, look, the man was kind of the basis for Ironman. So I’m like, you know, like there, there there’s shit that I would do there, but I don’t know how far you can go. [00:59:58] Brett: I don’t think there’s a limit. [01:00:00] Like they really want us to like, They want us to develop a rebellious [01:00:06] Christina: okay. So, so, um, so are you familiar with Corey Quinn? [01:00:09] Brett: No, [01:00:11] Christina: Okay. So this is a problem, so you need to know your space better. So [01:00:15] Brett: no shit. [01:00:18] Christina: I like, I’m not, I’m really not trying to tell you how to do your job, but like you do need to know your space better. So Corey Quinn is, um, and I think he got it framed because a tweet that I sent about Linda Sue, I will disclose he’s a friend. Um, he is, um, to my knowledge, I think he’s maybe the only PR I think this was the tweet he got framed was I was like, he got a times article because he’s a shit poster. [01:00:39] So he got like a small profile on the New York times about basically the fact that he’s a massive shit. [01:00:44] poster, but he, um, does. So his, his group, um, uh, the duckbill group basically, um, Does, uh, analysis and savings for how his clients can not be over-billed or fucked over on billing for cloud [01:01:00] services. So he’s kind of a, a consultant in that way. [01:01:02] Um, but his primary thing that he deals with is going to be, um, AWS. He does some stuff with Azure. He does some stuff, you know, he follows the spaces with Oracle and things like that, but, but he is kind of like AWS is where a lot of his, um, stuff, um, is about. And so he has a very funny newsletter called last week and AWS and his Twitter account, which, um, you should definitely be following, um, is very funny. [01:01:28] And then the New York times. [01:01:30] Brett: name again? [01:01:31] Christina: Uh, is his name is Corey Quinn, but his Twitter account is Queenie pig. So Q U I N N Y uh, pig. Um, but his name is Corey Quinn. Um, he’s hilarious. He will do like live tweets of conferences and translate things like from, you know, like corporate speaking to actual speak. He will like analyze bills and, and talk about like, this is how, you know, you were charged way too much money for certain [01:02:00] things. [01:02:00] Like he also, he’s a great account to follow like genuinely and he’s hilarious. And the thing is, is, um, the New York times wrote this very nice, uh, kind of mini profile about him. And, um, it was funny because like he is in like the people, like internally at Amazon where he has been, um, they like, there’ve been weird periods of time when they’ve offered him a job. [01:02:27] And then. Not gone anyway, his, his, his experiences there have been weird, but they have like a weird thing where some of the people that are very clearly do not like him, but at the same time, many of the people like, especially their smarter people really do like him. And it’s one of those things where like, even when, like, even at Microsoft, I’ll say some of the stuff he tweets about for us, there are people who internally will be like, Well, that’s not fair and he’s not being this or that. [01:02:53] And I’m like, what, is he wrong? You know, like sometimes he’s, he’s not completely accurate, but, but [01:03:00] he’s funny. And, and he’s somebody that, that has had, I think, a very large impact on like the cloud business as a whole, like people pay attention to him. And like Amazon definitely pays attention to him. And I think respects him the New York times headline. [01:03:15] This clock computing billing expert is very funny seriously. And, uh, th th the logline is Corey Quinn has made it his, uh, made it his business to understand Amazon’s cloud computing changes charges, and have some fun at the company’s expense. And, um, it’s like a very nice New York times article like that. [01:03:32] Like I said, I think is the first time I can recall somebody who’s like shit posting Twitter account, getting like a serious article on the times, especially about fucking cloud computing. Um, but he is, he, I would make him and the Ms. Excel account your golds, like I would make them your north star if it were me. [01:03:49] Brett: All right deal. I’m gonna, I’m gonna do some research. I’ll show up on a Monday with a, with a renewed vigor for this mission statement of mine. [01:03:58] Christina: Yeah. Because I think that you [01:04:00] could, um, be great. Um, Like, I think that you’d be able to completely name it. You just need to kind of figure out like what there’s always a line. Um, and you’ll be surprised. Like the good thing is you don’t have to be the one who has to fight those battles. Your bosses will be the ones who have to eat shit when you go too far. [01:04:18] And, and you’re not the one who to fight those battles. And I say this as somebody who myself, like, um, I may or may not have had a conversation with someone, um, after I sent a viral tweet about how the old Microsoft logo flux, it fucked so hard and it was not to admonish me. They just want it to be sure that me saying that the logo flux was a good thing because it was very popular. [01:04:40] And I was like, yes, this is a very good thing. Um, I’m like, this is actually The fact that, that, that, that the teens are all retweeting. This, this is a good thing. I sent another tweet that somehow also made the front page Reddit. Oh my God. Um, on the 20th anniversary of, uh, [01:05:00] uh, windows XP being released, um, it says happy 20th birthday to windows XP. [01:05:05] I think when I say FC KGW, RHQ Q two Y X, R K T. And then I continued the rest of like the [01:05:13] Brett: The serial number. Yeah. [01:05:15] Christina: So we all know what’s up. And, uh, that got, um, they got one and a half thousand retweets and 10 and a half thousand likes and then made the front page of Reddit and piracy. But like that four page spread and it got like 10,000 up bows and stuff. [01:05:31] And I was like, Yeah, [01:05:34] this was a good tweet. I did not hear anything from anybody about that. There were some people who on my team internally were like, were you, were you concerned about that? And I was like, No. I mean, a statute of limitations be embrace the fact that everyone knows what this key was. [01:05:53] It’s funny. It’s like one of those things that if, you know, you know, and that’s what makes the jokes so funny, like the quote [01:06:00] tweets on it, we’re all people like, why do I still remember this? Which exactly, um, because our brains are broken. So I have faith that you can find your, like your, a reverence switch to make fun of Oracle in a way that is endearing. [01:06:15] Brett: could put, I could get points by making fun of Amazon. Like, I actually know more about Amazon and AWS than I do about Oracle services at this point. So [01:06:27] Christina: So, so you, you, you can do that. What you want to do is you want to make fun of them in a way that like you can tie back to. [01:06:32] Brett: oh, totally. [01:06:33] Christina: Like it make from the egress thing, make fun of some of the other things, right? Like there’s, there’s stuff you can do, like find a way to tie it back in. But also when in doubt, make fun of Larry. [01:06:43] I’m just saying, or throw, look, throwing an Audrey reference. They’re like BSB old school. You know what I mean? like [01:06:51] Brett: the three comm Audrey, [01:06:52] Christina: yeah, because, because it was, that was the network computer that was going to be the whole, like, That was Larry’s whole thing. I [01:07:00] mean that Larry Ellison was the one who was like the one who was all about the network computer as a model. [01:07:05] Like [01:07:06] Brett: Oh, I can crack Audrey jokes all day. [01:07:09] Christina: totally that’s what I’m saying. Like, like, cause cause you know, Oracle invented like the whole idea of like the cloud computing. I’m not going to say that Larry invented the term, but he definitely popularized it. Like he owned cloud.com. He gave it to, um, to mark Benioff. Um, which in retrospect, probably a fucking stupid move to just give him that domain because you know, Salesforce, but like, um, yeah, like, like cloud.com was like something that, that Oracle owned, [01:07:41] Brett: Huh. Interesting. You, you know more about my company than I do [01:07:46] Christina: you know, what’s fucked up. [01:07:46] Brett: does not surprise me. [01:07:48] Christina: you know what, what’s fucked up. I didn’t get this information from like the last four and a half years that I’ve spent working in cloud computing. Like when I used to have to write explainers and shit, [01:08:00] this was stuff I don’t know. This is stuff that I knew, um, for fucking Mashable of all places. [01:08:06] Brett: Yeah. [01:08:08] Christina: Um, but Yeah. [01:08:10] um, my brain is weird and I’m sorry, I’ve been like talking to a whole bunch, but, [01:08:13] Brett: It’s okay. I was worried. We wouldn’t have enough to talk about on a Saturday. It seemed like such a chill day. [01:08:19] Christina: I did. We didn’t even get to talk about my new Mac [01:08:21] Brett: Oh my God. The next week we’re going to talk all like the whole episode is going to be about your new Mac book. [01:08:28] Christina: Um, okay. I’m actually legitimately saying this to you. I don’t know. Like you might still need a 16 inch Mac book or not, not a 16 inch, an Intel MacBook, in which case, obviously don’t but, um, work gate work gave you your Mac book, um, pro right? You’re in one. Okay. Fuck. Or your mini or whatever. [01:08:49] Brett: no, no. So my mini is all mine. My 16 inch MacBook pro Intel is all mine. They gave me, uh, what like [01:09:00] 15 inch MacBook pro that I never use. [01:09:04] Christina: Okay. Because I would actually say. you to, depending on whether or not you can be without like, like if you’d be okay with having a Mac book pro versus a Mac mini, um, like assuming like you treated it the same way as in many where you had it plugged in all the time or whatever, I would look into what apple might give you for a trade-in because the laptops are that good. [01:09:32] Brett: Yeah. I’ve heard nothing but amazing glowing drooling reviews over them, [01:09:39] Christina: yeah. Um, like I’m not telling you to, go out and spend $4,000 on a computer at all. Um, especially, but [01:09:49] Brett: have all that sweet, sweet Oracle money. [01:09:51] Christina: I business expense business. Right. Okay. Real talk. Not even joking here. I don’t know what your tax situation is. Like. I [01:10:00] don’t know those other things. It wouldn’t be because you could have it as both the dual right off with, for Overtired and for your other job. [01:10:06] Like if you need a $4,000 write off for any reason to do before the end of the year, it wouldn’t be a terrible idea. [01:10:14] Brett: Duly noted. [01:10:15] Christina: just saying, because this is, this is the laptop I’ve been waiting for, basically since like the, since my, I had a 20 13, 15 inch Bretton and MacBook pro and I’ve loved my IMAX and I still love my iMac, but this is the laptop I’ve been waiting for since that one kind of bit the dust. [01:10:32] Um, it, they, they, they, they, um, I’ll stop here, but they basically remember in Dallas when, um, what’s her face, uh, woke up and Bobby was there and it was like the whole previous season was just a. [01:10:46] Brett: This is an inherently funny question that you think I would know anything about it. [01:10:50] Christina: Okay. But it’s like one of the most famous TV tropes of all time. Like other people have used it, [01:10:54] Brett: Alright, I am familiar with the general concept. Yes. [01:10:57] Christina: Okay. [01:10:57] So it is like that happened. But with the [01:11:00] touch bar, fucking Mac book, it’s like the whole thing was just a dream and, and they just It’s just like, it never happened and I’m, I’m very excited about it. [01:11:10] Brett: Okay. [01:11:12] Christina: So I’m sorry. I’m I’m I’m done. I’m sorry. I’ve been like all over the place. [01:11:15] Brett: It’s w we’re, uh, we’re an hour and 10 minutes and every word we say from this point on it’s just another minute I have to edit. [01:11:22] Christina: I’m sorry. I’m done. [01:11:24] I love you, Christiana. [01:11:25] Christina: I love you too. [01:11:27] Brett: Um, Hey, I really hope you get a ton more sleep this week. [01:11:31]

It’s a freewheeling ride through corporate branding, mental health, and computer buying advice. Of sorts. I mean, it’s not good advice, but you never listen to us anyway. Sponsors Napjitsu offers nootropic supplements that make life better whether you’re asleep or awake. Deeper sleep, or unlock immediate, lasting energy: NAPJITSU products are designed to help you achieve your optimal performance. Go to Napjitsu.com/OVERTIRED for 30% off of your first purchase. Bespoke Post brings you a Box of Awesome every month. $45 gets you over $70 worth of cool stuff from small businesses you’d love to know about. Overtired listeners get 20% off their first box. Pick your collection and subscribe at boxofawesome.com. Use code overtired at checkout for 20% off! Coinbase offers a trusted and easy-to-use platform to buy, sell, and spend cryptocurrency. Get $10 in free Bitcoin when you sign up at coinbase.com/overtired. Show Links Facebook’s rebrand could lose them a ton of employees—here’s why fuckboi.com I took really bad notes this week. I’m very sorry. Please love me. – Brett Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 260 [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Chapter I [00:00:00] Brett: Hey there, you’re listening to Overtired. I’m Brett Terpstra. I’m here with Christina Warren and returning special guest Aaron Dawson. How are you ladies? [00:00:14] Erin: Doing fine. Doing fine. Hello. It’s it’s Aaron it’s me from before the pods favorite guest [00:00:21] Brett: You may remember me from such podcasts as Overtired. [00:00:26] Christina: Exactly. We’re very happy to have you back. [00:00:28] Erin: Thank you happy to be here, [00:00:30] Brett: Is there even any bachelor news to talk about? [00:00:33] Christina: Uh, this is just this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, what do you want to talk about with bachelor? Because there is a lot of stuff. [00:00:41] Brett: let’s, let’s ease into this. I let that, I brought it up. I know, like I, I did that. That was my fault, but let’s, let’s ease into the bachelor conversation. [00:00:53] Erin: fine. [00:00:54] Brett: Fine. So what, like, what is what’s going on in the world? These.[00:01:00] [00:01:00] That’s So Meta [00:01:00] Christina: Um, well, uh, Facebook is, uh, is attempting to rebrand itself. They announced that their big, uh, Facebook connect conference that, um, the company name, um, they’re, they’re doing an umbrella company strategy kind of like, you know, alphabet. Yeah. Where, where that’s now going to be Metta. [00:01:19] Brett: nobody knows who alphabet is like I under, I know, I know, but you can’t say alphabet, [00:01:25] Christina: can’t. It doesn’t. [00:01:26] Brett: that rebranding? Like, why are we doing this? [00:01:28] Christina: This is a whole argument. I’m in getting into a people on Twitter because these rebranding never works. Like Altea, uh, everyone is still calls it Philip Morris, right? Like you, you never call, um, even though the, the, the sub-companies, but then alphabet it’s all Google, right? The stocks on bolt is still Google. [00:01:47] Like these things don’t work. Like when, when Netflix tried to rebrand one of their products Quickster I think it lasted like a week. Um, I was, I was, uh, talking about this on Twitter. Like the only actual [00:02:00] successful time I can ever recall was Accenture. And that was because Arthur Anderson went out of business. [00:02:06] So, um, for people who don’t know, um, Arthur Anderson used to be one of the big. Um, like accounting firms and they were probably the biggest and because of their, uh, involvement with the Enron scandal, they wound up going out of business. Um, first I think the government said they could not operate. And then once the government said that they could operate, they’re basically dead, but they took Arthur Anderson consulting, which had been a massive part of it. [00:02:31] And they renamed that Accenture and that obviously still lives on today, but that’s one of the only examples I can think of. You sometimes see the inverse where like a company that’s known for something like a research in motion was known as Blackberry. So they renamed themselves Blackberry, but like, we still call like P Diddy puffy. [00:02:50] Like, you know what I mean? And it’s been 20 years. So yeah, this, this, I think that’s their attempt to get away from the genocide, but it’s still gonna be [00:03:00] Facebook. [00:03:00] Brett: Yeah. We’re the brand names like Google and Facebook and even, I mean, Philip Morris is still Philip Morris. Like you can’t, you can’t unbrand something that got that big. [00:03:12] Christina: No, no people still call the Sears tower, the Sears tower and tears hasn’t helped the naming rights in like a really long time, but nobody will. [00:03:19] Brett: now? CNN. [00:03:21] Christina: even, I can’t even remember. Um, I’m, I’m looking this up, uh, Sears tower, Willis tower. Who, who the hell knows what that is. So like it’s. Yeah, exactly. So it’s the Sears tower, the, uh, the MetLife building on a 23rd street in, in New York city, um, near where I used to work will always be the Pan-Am building and like, pan am, I think when under like about the time I was born. [00:03:44] So, you know what I mean? It’s like one of those things like the, these, the, and I think they lost the naming rights to the building even before the company went under. So some of this stuff is just it’s inevitable. Right. But also I feel like the jokes write themselves with them trying to call themselves [00:04:00] Metta because they’re so into the metaverse and like, you’ve already ruined this reality. [00:04:03] Now you’re trying to ruin the next one. [00:04:05] Brett: What is the metaverse [00:04:09] Christina: Um, [00:04:10] Brett: does that mean? [00:04:11] Christina: I mean, it’s a bunch of bullshit, but I think the idea is that if you’re interconnected through like virtual communities and virtual realities and other sorts of, of things is kind of the idea there basically, [00:04:23] Brett: internet. [00:04:24] Christina: I mean kind of accepted, there’s like a virtual like, component where like, you know, you’d have like avatars and stuff that they’re basically trying to make second life a thing, but you know, [00:04:34] Brett: Oh, is that what didn’t didn’t uh, uh, what’s his name? Mark Zuckerberg. To some commercial where he appeared as like an avatar. I saw he did like an interview as an avatar. [00:04:46] Christina: Or something like that. Yeah. [00:04:47] Brett: Yeah. [00:04:49] Erin: It was during, uh, Pandemic, which as we know, is, is over with, I think it was the, the, they didn’t didn’t Facebook Metta, uh, [00:05:00] develop a kind of work from home or remote work. Um, yeah. Yeah, Like a metaverse where you have an avatar, is that where you were just talking about Christina and, and he showed up? Yeah, [00:05:15] Christina: yeah, yeah, yeah, no. And, and, and that’s no, but you, you described it better than I did, so yeah. Like that’s exactly what they’re trying to kind of do. Yeah. It’s just such a weird thing. I was, I was also commenting that, like, this feels like the worst sort of like satirical, scifi, cyber punk, novel ever, because I feel like if you wrote a story that was like, okay, we have this company, that’s basically ruined humanity, but now they’re going to rebrand and they’re wanting to recreate, they’re wanting to create their own universe. [00:05:40] And, and, but they’ll be the ones in charge of it. Like people would be like, that’s an O in the, and they’re, they’re going to call themselves Metta. I feel like people will be like, eh, that’s a little too on the nose, even for a second. [00:05:50] Brett: Do you think that the, the, the company named motto was available or they sick? Army of lawyers on somebody. [00:05:58] Christina: Um, [00:05:59] Brett: There’s no [00:06:00] way that was available. [00:06:01] Christina: I’m sure that it’s not, I’m sure they had to pay a bunch of money for the website, but I mean, I think you can, you pretty much oftentimes name your, your company. Anything you want, like [00:06:11] Brett: I think within, within a state, I think you have to, when you register a company name, I think you have to have it, at least for the, the corporate identity. You have to have a unique name, [00:06:20] Christina: Right. And that, I’m not sure how that works cause like, um, alphabet I’m sure. You know what I mean? Like a lot of these things are, are, are more generic. So I don’t know if there’s like a weird thing with, with how it’s, you know, like maybe they add like a, you know, a certain thing to it or whatever. [00:06:35] Like again, like they do own mehta.com and it redirects to about.facebook.com/meta. So they don’t even have like their URL rewriting to mete.com yet, which is funny. Um, but yeah, I mean, I’m sure they had to pay a bunch of money for that. I was looking into it. They have the stock symbol FB, which is a good one. [00:06:51] It’s a two name symbol. There is already a symbol. It’s not on the New York stock exchange or NASDAQ, but there is already a meta, um, symbol. [00:07:00] And so that makes me think, okay, they’re probably going to be like Google, who didn’t ever change their stock symbol. It’s still Gog. So, um, like, like, um, research emotion, which was Blackberry, they did change their stock symbol to, um, um, BB M R Y, but usually. [00:07:20] I don’t know. I mean, it was probably a mix there aren’t many of these things that, that try, like, I don’t know if Altea Philip Morris probably did change their stock symbol, but, um, I don’t know, a Facebook is going to be like, I wouldn’t give up F be like, that’s a good one. Right? Like, you’ve got that two letter domain name. [00:07:35] You got a two letter stock symbol, like, as we’ve seen from various Twitter hacks, the teens will seriously hack you to try to get your two letter or a single, you know, like or letter or like username. Like they, they love the OGE usernames. So I, if I were Facebook, I wouldn’t give that up. [00:07:54] Erin: But why deny this? The precious. Uh, universe we can [00:08:00] build if F B was used by a fourth company, a forthcoming company called fuck boy. Right. And it would [00:08:08] Christina: Right. Oh, [00:08:09] Erin: in NASDAQ. Kevin also, I don’t know, maybe this can really turn things around for Facebook. Um, like what if JC Penney’s and Sears pulled this move? [00:08:20] Maybe things could be different for them. [00:08:23] Christina: I mean maybe, maybe, I mean, usually it doesn’t work. I try. So I, it was funny cause people were trying to, well, actually me when I was commenting that these things never work. And I was like, I’ve actually done research on this because when Ashley Madison had their breach, um, I wrote a, uh, my initial headline from Asheville was Ashley. [00:08:41] Madison is fucked, which I still think is a great headline. Um, and it was changed at the last one. I got approval for it. And, and this was back mashville curses now, but they did not curse five years ago and or six years ago, whenever this was, um, written and, and instead, uh, one of my [00:09:00] editors and he was right, he kept the slug the same, but he changed it to Ashley. [00:09:02] Madison is so screwed, but I did research on companies that have attempted this sort of rebranding thing. And sometimes, you know, for, for Blake. Crisis reasons. And sometimes it works, but usually like AirTran went out of business anyway. Like I still call it value jet. Right. Like I, you know, I mean, uh, this is for people from the south who remember a certain airlines, somebody pointed out like the, the exception that proves the rule, which would be Verizon, which, um, was formerly bell Atlantic and, and that’s, but it does kind of prove the rule. [00:09:33] A funny story here, funny aside here. So, um, when 18 T was split up, cause they had all the baby bells, bell, south bell, Atlantic bell, you know, Pacific, um, you know, Southwestern bell, all that sort of stuff. Um, bell south then became singular and Cingular bought up a bunch of the other baby bells and was huge. [00:09:51] And they wound up acquiring, um, 18 T wireless, which was not associated with the original at T and T. And as soon as they acquired the [00:10:00] smaller company, the CEO of singular who had. For at T and T before the breakup days, like his very first move, like within days of the deal closing, was he renamed the company at T and T and we’d be like, why he was like, why would, why would we not? [00:10:14] You know? And it was just kind of funny. It was like, yep. Even though bell, south, and even at that point, singular was like a well-known name, you know, they’re like, but at, and T is better, [00:10:23] Brett: I have a question. So, and maybe the answer to this is, is just the obvious one. Um, I’m hoping it’s not what a product or service does this fictitious fuckboy company provides. [00:10:38] Christina: Oh, that’s a good question. Also a fun fact also. Yeah. Please tell us, but I did want to point out to people if you go to fuckboy.com, so F U C K B O y.com. It redirects to someone’s Twitter page. And I want to I’m following him now, just because of that redirect. [00:10:53] Brett: Do you think, do you think he made the redirect or someone [00:10:56] Christina: Oh, that’s such a, [00:10:57] Brett: him? [00:10:58] Christina: honestly, I don’t even care. [00:11:00] I’m I’m but that’s a great, I’m going to do a, who is on that right now, but sorry, please tell us the services that fuckboy, um, the entity would sell Erin. Cause I want to know those two. [00:11:09] Erin: Well, before I get to that, I have to admit that I only brought up the JC Penny’s thing because I wanted to riff on alternative names for JC Penney and Sears. So it would be like, you know, PJ Nichols, or it could be. [00:11:24] Christina: PJ Nicole’s [00:11:25] Erin: I don’t know. All right, this is, I’m not going to go anywhere with this bit, but, but for the fuck boy thing, all right, what you’re going to get is you’re going to go, you’re going to invest in fuck boy. [00:11:35] And as a thank you, the board is going to send you a fuck boy for a period of, uh, of, of two and a half hours or the fuck boys choosing could be all night. And I’m in [00:11:49] Brett: Minimum minimum two and a half. [00:11:51] Erin: Right, right, right, right. And in a sort of, um, chip and Dale’s inspired sartorial vibe, they [00:12:00] will wear, um, minimum clothes, but be bedecked with accessories. [00:12:07] I don’t know if that’s the word. Um, but basically what they’ll do is they’ll bring over some grapes, put them in your fridge. And feed them to you sometimes, but they’ll also talk to you about, um, like the ion a sphere and how like, um, distilled water is actually good for you. Um, and how water, when it goes into your body, looks for minerals. [00:12:29] Um, And, and they’re really into, um, what, what’s the kind of like, um, it starts with an age and approach to science and food where you actually use the thing that you’re trying to avoid to cure the thing that you [00:12:45] Christina: Oh. Oh, right, right, right. Yes. There you [00:12:48] Erin: talk. Yeah. So they talked to you a lot about homeopathy and like who they’re fucking, and then they leave. And you look for your, your, your, like your nice necklace and it’s not [00:13:00] gone, but it, it, it is, it has been repositioned [00:13:02] Brett: I will. I’ll be surprised if they ever go public. I just, I don’t see them needing that stock symbol. [00:13:08] Christina: yeah, I, I, I feel, I feel the same way, unfortunately, although I think it’s a great idea. I also feel like fuck as a service would be something that I’m exactly, exactly right. CC instead of function, as a service fuckboy, as a service, I’m really into this being our, our fast, um, naming, right? Like I feel like there could be a whole thing there. [00:13:28] Erin: Oh, my God. There’s a, there’s a, there’s a company within fuck boy, which is inner intermittent fasting. See where I’m going. [00:13:37] Christina: Totally. [00:13:37] Erin: All right. [00:13:38] Brett: no, actually I didn’t get it yet. I just, I started laughing at the idea. So please explain it. [00:13:45] Erin: Wow, God, fuck you, Brett. Um, yeah. So the idea is that, um, once, once you use the fuckboy service, you kind of become addicted. And like processed foods, they’re kind of designed [00:14:00] to addict you. They hijack the pleasure centers of your brain. And so what you can Do what they put you on in a kind of MLM scheme, um, is, is the kind of create a need for you. [00:14:11] To tell others about the fuck by service in so doing you become addicted. And so this is when they, they offer you fast, which is like a way to wean yourself off and give the gift of the fuck boy service to other people. Any, any more questions [00:14:28] Brett: you want to hear the band name? I came up. [00:14:31] Erin: and. [00:14:32] Brett: So like, okay. We talk, there was this conversation happening about naming things in my brain went off to this. Like I was talking with my girlfriend and she mentioned that she had talked to Steve from college. And a lot of times I think, oh, that’s a great band name. [00:14:50] You know, when people are talking. And I think I’ll probably remember that, cause it’s a great band name, but this is the first time it’s ever actually happened. I want to name a band. Steve comma from [00:15:00] college. Punctuation is important. Steve camo from college. That’s that’s the big, I don’t know if it is. Is it a good, is it a good black metal name? [00:15:09] Aaron [00:15:10] Erin: It’s not a good black metal name. It’s a good, I don’t know, kind of. [00:15:16] Brett: and sons. [00:15:17] Erin: No, no, it’s not antebellum kind of civil war stuff. It’s pretty straight ahead in D uh, I have, [00:15:23] Christina: say, that’s a good Indy name. I like Steve [00:15:25] Brett: a math rock name. [00:15:26] Erin: Okay. I’m going to think about that. I have a, I have a friend who’s in a band called Tony from bowling. [00:15:31] Brett: I love [00:15:32] Erin: Um, so the format works. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking, and maybe Christina, you can give us your provisional, uh, that would make a good band name. [00:15:42] What about this? And this could be a pretty vial pestilence filled like thrash band, but, um, seal PIs. [00:15:56] Brett: I feel like you’re just taking two words and putting them together. [00:16:00] [00:16:00] Erin: So what if I [00:16:00] am, but seal PIs it’s it’s evocative. You, you can’t deny that [00:16:06] Christina: It’s the bucket of, I don’t know, like, I feel like anything with, with like a piss kimono, I’m just, I’m I’m immediately kind of turned off. I mean, I guess it depends completely on the genre. Like if you were going after a certain genre where maybe that sort of thing fits, it’s definitely a bucket, but I’m just like, ah, you know, like. [00:16:21] Erin: said you were turned. What I didn’t and I didn’t hear which way offer. [00:16:25] Christina: Oh, I’m turned off. Yeah, [00:16:27] Erin: Oh, that’s too [00:16:27] Brett: one of my favorite bands back in the, uh, early, late nineties, I guess was called ass rash. Uh, and it was named because that was the one thing, the guy couldn’t say in front of his girlfriend without pissing her off, like, she was very permissive, but she hated the idea of ass rash. So that’s what he called his band. [00:16:47] And that’s exactly like that attitude is exactly the kind of music they made and I loved it. [00:16:54] Erin: And now they have 2.5 kids and. [00:16:58] Brett: I haven’t followed. [00:16:58] Erin: They’re still together. [00:16:59] Brett: I [00:17:00] haven’t kept up. [00:17:01] Christina: As rash. [00:17:02] Brett: possible. I mean, anything’s possible. [00:17:05] Sponsor: Napjitsu [00:17:05] Brett: Hey, are you Overtired? Do you find yourself imbibing, extra coffee, just to get through the day? Do you find yourself wishing more sponsor reads started with rhetorical questions. That’s just one indication of low energy and the sign that you need a better way to energize nap. [00:17:23] Jitsu offers time, release caffeine to keep your energy steady throughout the day. They have two, they have a supplement called now that guaranteed to perk you up. And if you love a good mid day that. Yeah. And if you love a good midday nap, you’re not alone. You’re in the company of Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, and Stephen King. [00:17:43] At least when it comes to opinions of naps, nap, Jitsu is a new way to recharge your body and your brain. Their nap formula takes you on a whole journey from restful sleep to pleasant, wake up and then boost your energy for the rest of the day. 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Whether you need to experience deeper sleep or unlock immediate lasting energy, each nap jets you product is designed to help you achieve your optimal performance. [00:18:54] Remember the smart rest more the wise rest, better. Rest up and [00:19:00] level up with nap Jitsu. Go to nap. jitsu.com/ Overtired for 30% off your first purchase today. That’s N a P J I T S u.com. Overtired, [00:19:15] Erin: That was inspired. Whoever wrote that copy. [00:19:18] Brett: you know what? I took some liberties with it. I made it my own. [00:19:23] Erin: you really. [00:19:25] BRETT’S Mental Health Corner [00:19:25] Brett: Um, where were we? We were talking about naming bands. Like, so just so our listeners know, we, we, we, we often say that we didn’t have a list when we started the show. Like, we didn’t know what we were going to talk about. This was the most unprepared we have ever been. [00:19:47] Like, I’m super curious to see what happens because I have no idea where this is going to go. [00:19:54] Christina: Yeah, well, w we, we, we missed on Brett’s mental health core. [00:19:58] Brett: Oh my [00:19:58] Erin: I was just going to [00:20:00] say I wasn’t bred. If I, if I can say I was in a meeting with you earlier. And my immediate impression, um, when, when I saw your sweet little face pop up on my, uh, zoom application was. Seems tired. And so if we could move competently into this, this section of the podcast, I’d be curious to see if I was right. [00:20:21] Brett: Yeah. So I like to call it the mental health corner. Christina calls it Brett’s mental health corner and I, I feel attacked. [00:20:31] Christina: I mean, you, I think you were the one who started calling it, press mental health corner. I’d be happy to call it the mental health corner. But again, like, like we just talked about rebranding. I don’t know if that’s going to work. Like, obviously it’s not just about Brett, but it’s, it’s Brett’s mental health corner. [00:20:44] That’s what it’s been for however many years. [00:20:46] Brett: All right. So, so I like, I’m pretty stable, but not sleeping eight and a half hours a night. Like I prefer to, like, I keep waking up at like four or five and just [00:21:00] getting up. So I have this like long running, slightly tired. I’ve just, I haven’t felt awake in a couple of weeks. Um, I saw my shrink. I can’t remember if I had seen her last time we talked, but she lowered my, uh, ADHD meds. [00:21:19] Christina: Right. I mean, we talked about that. How has that been [00:21:22] Brett: It’s it’s fine. Like it still does the trick. Uh, but she also raised the mood stabilized at once and I haven’t, I haven’t gone manic, but it’s only been a week, two weeks. A week. Um, so it’s hard to say if it’s actually going to work yet, but I have another appointment with her coming up on, I think next, next, mid, next week I have to check in, I don’t know how much it would be able to tell her with only two weeks of experience, but oh, here’s hoping for the best [00:21:57] Christina: All right. Fingers crossed there. Uh, Aaron, how about you? How’s [00:22:00] your. [00:22:02] Erin: Thanks for asking. Um, Uh, it’s okay. Um, therapy’s been helping a lot, but maybe we’ve talked about this before, but the thing about therapy is that things kind of necessarily have to get worse before they get better. Um, so I’m, I’m in the trough of my brain, of my, of my gray matter right now, but, um, I’m sleeping. Okay. [00:22:24] So that’s a big, not, not to, you know, sorry, Brett, but. [00:22:27] Brett: bragger bragger. [00:22:29] Christina: I’m glad. I’m glad. I’m glad you are. Mine is okay too. I’m I’m, I’m going out of town. Um, this weekend I leave on a red eye at like 10:00 PM tonight. So in like nine hours and, um, so I have to do laundry. Um, and, uh, I’m excited about that. I’m going to go to do Halloween with my, uh, six month old nephew and, um, see my parents. [00:22:49] So I’m, I’m, that’s improved my, my mental health, you know, feeling like I’m excited to see people does, has anybody had the booster. [00:22:58] Brett: No. [00:22:59] Erin: No. [00:23:00] [00:23:00] Christina: I’m going to look into that as soon as I get back, um, to figure out [00:23:04] Erin: Yeah. Who knows if we’ll be able to I mean, we’re all approximately the same age. I think those over 65 can only get it right now. Right. [00:23:12] Christina: No, it’s [00:23:12] Erin: when that’s changing. [00:23:13] Christina: it’s 65. And if you have any sort of underlying condition and so, so the thing is, is it, and it’s the honor system just like before. And although I like really went out of my way to like wait in line to be patient and all that shit last time. Fuck that the, I talked to you cause I volunteered at our mass, um, vaccination site, um, twice, uh, last time, in fact I did that, so I could get it early. [00:23:36] Like I got it like two weeks early because of that. And um, from that process, like what they were telling us is they were like, the name of the game is getting shots in arms. Like that’s all it’s about. So if it’s available, especially since there are so many people who still don’t even have their first doses, fuck it. [00:23:50] I’m, I’m getting my third shot. Like. not, especially since instance apply isn’t, you know, an issue like they’re, they’re only [00:24:00] claiming that like, you need to be, they’re saying six months and, you know, over 65 or under 65 with an underlying condition. They’re only saying that I think to just try to keep supply, you know, decent, but there there’s no reason medical reason why, like you couldn’t. [00:24:19] Brett: I hope enough people are finally getting vaccinated that we could have a supply problem. [00:24:24] Christina: no, I mean, I, I, that would be, I guess in theory I’d be good. I, I have a feeling that just because of how they’ve been able to do the manufacturing, I think that even if everybody were to get them, I think they have enough doses for literally everyone. Like, I, I don’t, I, I, so, you know, it’s at the point where, and a lot of other countries don’t the United States is very fortunate, unfortunately, and we’ve tried to send things to some of those other countries, unfortunately, And this is why maybe a global, you know, like organized response would have been better. [00:24:54] A lot of those countries that don’t have supply had taken it upon themselves to [00:25:00] endorse and support a local vaccine. And so they, that was what their policy said. So it was like, okay, well you wanted your own, you didn’t want to, you know, go in and get stuff from other people. So, I mean, at this point I would like them to be able to pivot and accept or buy vaccines from other people, but they might not be able to write. [00:25:18] They might’ve already paid, you know, the people who can’t deliver it, it it’s a whole clusterfuck, but I think that supply wise, at least in the United States, um, because we’re very fortunate. I think that it’s fine. So I feel zero guilt about figuring out how I can go into a Walgreens or Amazon and get it. [00:25:35] Brett: If I recall correctly, ADHD is listed as an underlying condition that qualifies you, which seemed odd to me. Uh, [00:25:43] Christina: it is, and it’s not. It’s like, if you look at certain things, they claim certain types of diseases could be something and it falls under that. But again, I was at the center, this was back when they were, you know, especially in Washington state, we were allotted. Um, hardcore [00:26:00] and like gatekeepery about who could have shots. [00:26:02] Like we didn’t roll it out even to the, you know, a lot of people who had like cancer and stuff, didn’t even, weren’t even able to even able to get it until like March. Um, and so once it became more widely available, like literally what the, and this was the, the health experts, and this was the people running these centers, literally what they were like as they were like, the name of the game is shots in arms. [00:26:21] So if you can get it, get it. And, and like I said, I played by the rules even though a lot of people didn’t, which I don’t blame them for. I’m not doing that again. Like, unless you could prove to me, like with evidence that there are a ton of people who want the booster and can’t get it, fuck that I’m getting the booster as soon as it’s, as soon as like, I can fit it into my [00:26:40] Brett: Christina’s back and she’s mad. Yeah. Oh yeah. I, if I, if I was, if I was interacting with more actual live people on a daily basis, I would, I would, it would be top of mind for me, but I forget that it’s even an option because Jesus, I don’t see anybody.[00:27:00] [00:27:00] Christina: Yeah, I will remind people though, to get your flu shot because, um, um, and, and you can get them both at the same time, although that might be kind of a shitty, you know, like your both arms will hurt, [00:27:09] Brett: You can have two shitty days or one really shitty day. [00:27:14] Christina: So, so even so, but I would just say like, even if you aren’t interested or you don’t feel like you need a booster right now, which is totally valid, get a flu shot because, uh, again, like, because people haven’t been out as much and whatnot, um, they don’t know how powerful flu is going to be this year, but it is one of those things because people are going out more, you know, you don’t want people to be like surprised and then, and then get the flu because the flu is, is deadly too. [00:27:37] And, um, so yeah. [00:27:40] Erin: I just, I just got mine the other day. Um, and I was happy. I did. Yeah. Brett, you mentioned not really seeing anyone much anymore. Um, and I’ve been thinking about. About that in my life. Like my, my partner last weekend, uh, once in New York to, um, help [00:28:00] with a prestigious art project, um, that I can’t name and won’t name because I, cause I do forget it. [00:28:07] Um, and she was, and she was gone for the weekend. Um, and, and a little bit of Monday and as soon as she was, I just moved to and back to. Um, a new city. Um, I moved from Los Angeles to Pittsburgh and as soon as she left, um, the. Not so rational part of my brain was like, okay, when does, when does my phone overheat from all the texts and calls that I get? [00:28:39] Like, where are, where are my friends Right. [00:28:42] now? And, um, this is a rational because I I told none of them that my weekend was completely free, but it also made me think about like, am I have I become. A person, that person in a relationship [00:29:00] who really only hangs out with their partner or is it, is it COVID and, and friends are, as I have been as a friend, um, not just like less available, but much more unlikely to, to like initiate a hang or something, or is it both, um, either way, like, I feel compunction about. [00:29:25] Brett: I feel like I know the answer to this, but are you an introvert? Do you self identify as introverted? [00:29:32] Erin: Like, no, I don’t. And I used to, and this is something that’s been weird is as I, um, as I evolve as an adult, I am becoming more extroverted and, and, um, that was, that’s not who I used to be. Um, but no, I don’t identify as an introvert. I think that’s the first time I’m saying that. [00:29:53] Brett: Huh? Yeah. I, I only hang out with my girlfriend and [00:30:00] hanging out with other people, even if I really liked them. It’s it pains me. I can go like maybe half an hour with someone I really like, uh, before I get like crabby and want them gone. And like my energy just runs out. I become more and more introverted as I’ve aged. [00:30:19] Erin: Is there a hierarchy to that though? Like it is, If someone’s in the inner sanctum or the inner circle, you can maybe go for 45 minutes or an hour, like I’m going to make this weird cause I want to, um, Christina, and Brett, if you were getting a tea, would that rule apply for you Brett [00:30:38] Brett: If [00:30:38] Erin: or would that feeling? [00:30:40] Yeah, just as a, as a, as a sample sample of. [00:30:43] Brett: I don’t know. We’d have to test it. Like there have been times where I have been shocked that I lost track of time with somebody and, uh, like just, I wanted the conversation to keep going, like, uh, for whatever reason it hit the right buttons for me. [00:31:00] And I didn’t look at the clock. Uh, once by the time I realized that’s happening, though, it means I’ve already like. [00:31:08] Christina: Right. You re reached that point. No, that’s an interesting thing. I’m kind of like you, Aaron, like as I’ve gotten older, I’ve become, I’m not an introvert. And I, I probably. All of my adult life. But, um, you know, for, since I guess probably my late teens, I wouldn’t classify myself that way. Growing up, there were periods where I would. [00:31:27] Um, and, and there are, I’ve had, I’ve had times where I’ve had like agoraphobia and if I have periods of social anxiety as an adult that been really difficult, but I’m not an introvert, but what I found is, and part of the reason that kind of got me out of being an introvert and being a more extrovert person, although I like my alone time and I can definitely like I’m using myself and whatnot. [00:31:46] And there are times when I’m exhausted after spending a ton of time with people. But I feel like that’s natural. I think even people that like get energy off of being with others, there’s a certain point where you’re like, okay, now I just need to decompress. Um, I feel like that is [00:32:00] fairly universal, but I have found that what helped that honestly was being around more and more people. [00:32:05] And that’s the thing that’s. The pandemic so difficult for me is that I haven’t been around my friends. I haven’t been around people. And so I felt like I’ve gone more into this introverted place that I don’t like. And that I don’t think, at least for me it’s healthy. I mean, I think for some people it’s fine, but for me I’m much happier when I’m able to be with people and, and, uh, in person. [00:32:27] Right. Like, I, I do get something out of that. I really enjoy it. My husband is way more introverted and, and that’s kind of a problem with us sometimes because I really like to go out with people. And so he oftentimes doesn’t come and, and, you know, and then there can be weirdness there, but I’m like, I’m at the point where I will not, not go, you know, and, and see people because, you know, uh, my partner doesn’t want to come with me, like, okay, if you don’t want to come, that’s completely fine. [00:32:52] But like, I’m, I’m going to [00:32:53] Erin: It’s a medicine. [00:32:55] Brett: girlfriend has no expectation that I will accompany her anywhere. It’s always a [00:33:00] surprise if I decide to go, but she is just fine without me. It’s a, [00:33:04] Christina: Which is, which I think is great. Right. Which I think is completely fine. Right. Like some, sometimes I think that people, like there can be awareness about it or whatever, but like in general, that is completely, you know, like I think. Okay. And, but for me, it is one of those weird things where I’m just like, Like you said, it’s my medicine. [00:33:21] And so that’s been, what’s been so hard about the last 18 months has been that like I used to travel a lot. And one of the great things about going on international trips was that I got to see a different variety of people. I’d have some of the same people on most of the trips with me, but it was a different kind of variety. [00:33:36] And you get to know people in a different way and, um, you know, and you, and you spend a lot of time together. It’s kind of like college and, you know, and I miss that. I miss being there, you know, I have a really good core group of friends that we have, uh, a group chat that we’re always in together. And we used to be able to see each other, even though we all live in different states, we used to be able to see each other fairly frequently, right? [00:33:55] Like we usually saw each other at least once a month and not having that has been [00:34:00] really hard. [00:34:00] Erin: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know if, if, if we have to hear from one of our other sponsors in a second, but, but just to maybe close the loop on this, um, I have not been, uh, depressed since, uh, the pandemic started, but the flavor of depression that I have dictates that, and maybe Christina. You’re similar, is that, yeah, I, the, the exact thing that I need to get out of this thing is the exact thing that I do not want. [00:34:28] It is the opposite of homeopathy. It’s it’s hetero Stacy. I don’t [00:34:34] Christina: Exactly. Yeah, no, no. I know exactly, exactly. It goes against the, against the grain, like other than some periods where I had like very deep agoraphobia, which was weird and I didn’t know. And I, I went on some medication, some other things for that. Like, even though it is the uncomfortable thing is like, that’s why I have to do, I have to get out and talk to people, even when it kills me, because that’s going to make me feel better and that’s going to ultimately make me more able to talk to people and be able to be [00:35:00] outgoing and an extrovert. [00:35:01] But yeah. Um, okay. Yes. Uh, but speaking of, uh, stuff, this is just going to be a weird segue onto our next [00:35:08] Brett: Speaking of stuff. That’s my segue. Do your own segue to, [00:35:13] Christina: Okay. Well, I I’m, there’s not a way to really go into a segway here. [00:35:17] Sponsor: Coinbase [00:35:17] Christina: So cryptocurrency might feel like a secret or exclusive club, but Coinbase believes that everyone everywhere, whether you’re an introvert or an extrovert, see, see what I did there should be able to get in the door. So whether you’ve been training for years or just getting started, Coinbase can help. [00:35:36] Now. Coinbase offers a trusted and easy to use platform to buy, sell, and spend cryptocurrency. They support the most popular digital currencies on the market and they make them accessible to everyone. The offer portfolio management and protection, there are learning resources and a mobile app so that you can trade securely and monitor your crypto all in one place. [00:35:56] Millions of people in over a hundred countries, trust Coinbase [00:36:00] with their digital assets. So whether you’re looking to diversify, just getting started or you’re searching for a better way to access crypto markets start today with Coinbase. For a limited time, new users can get $10 in free Bitcoin. When you sign up today@coinbase.com slash Overtired, this offer is for a limited time only. [00:36:19] So be sure to sign up today. That’s coinbase.com/ Overtired. And just as an aside, I use Coinbase for years. It is a really good way. If you are getting into crypto and you don’t feel comfortable doing all the things like setting up all the different, you know, like hard wallets and, uh, cold wallets and hot wallets and dealing with a lot of that stuff, it is, it does make it really, really easy as a way to, um, uh, buy sell, or hold or spend cryptocurrency. [00:36:48] So coinbase.com/ Overtired. [00:36:51] Financial Details [00:36:51] Brett: I have earned $300 trading crypto in the last two months. [00:36:58] Christina: Yeah, no, the, [00:37:00] the, um, the, the market is going crazy again. So [00:37:04] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Like there was a, there was a little crash in, in Bitcoin for a little while there, but man, it, it came back. [00:37:12] Christina: yeah, it did. It did even my doses, even my doses up again. [00:37:16] Brett: Really. [00:37:17] Christina: I mean, it’s not as the high that it was, but, but it is up [00:37:21] Brett: Yeah. Um, like I watched these like biggest winners and losers everyday to see where the huge gains are. And it’s always these, these cryptos that go for like that, or like, even with the dollar or like worth less than a dollar. And they’ll go up by like 26% gain, which I suppose if, if you have a hundred dollars in that crypto he’s made 26 bucks. [00:37:46] So I don’t know how numbers work. I shouldn’t be giving anyone advice. [00:37:51] Christina: We’re definitely not giving anybody advice. [00:37:53] Brett: So I got a new debit card after months. Like [00:38:00] it was sometime over the summer, uh, an ATM ate my debit card on the way to the farmer’s market and they never called me. And then I called the bank and they said, they’d send me one. They never sent me one. [00:38:11] I finally got my new one and it changed the number. And now I daily get notifications from places that have my card on file that have been happily auto withdrawing for years for like eight years. And now I have to go in and it’s, it sucks. Some of them, some of them are even sending notifications to email addresses. [00:38:34] I don’t have any more. And the only reason I know to go track them down is because I get like a charged, denied message, a text message from my bank. [00:38:43] Christina: Right, right. No, I I’m. So what I’ve had to start to do, because I have to go through this every few years is I’ve made a list of all the places that I use a certain card so that I can then like go back and go through the list. The, the best [00:39:00] option would be to use something like, uh, like privacy and then use like a custom card. [00:39:04] Cause you can update the funding source and then just use that for each thing. But that, that takes a lot of time to get into doing too. But yeah, I, I, um, after the last time it happened where I had to like, remember, cause there was always something I would forget. Like my DNS was one that, um, bit me in the ass because I forgot to renew my DNS. [00:39:23] I didn’t realize this is for my custom email because they gave me like a week, like courtesy and then all of a sudden I wasn’t getting emails and I didn’t realize it. And then I was like, oh right. My auto renewal didn’t work. So I had to go through and change the card number. And, uh, but there are always those little things you just don’t even think about, unless you are willing to go through like your bank statement and look at like, cause some of them are annual. [00:39:45] So that makes it even harder. Like it’s a monthly thing. You’re going to get it. But if it’s like an annual thing, like, I don’t remember, you know, like this was my payment source, so yeah. [00:39:54] Brett: I use true bill now, which is pretty good for keeping track of subscriptions. [00:40:00] Uh, but I haven’t been using it long enough for it to be helpful in this situation. I did get a boost in my apple card limit though. I didn’t even ask for it. They just came back and more than doubled my limit. [00:40:12] Christina: Hell. Yeah. I had to ask for mine cause their original one. Thank you. If you like $750, [00:40:19] Brett: What are [00:40:19] Christina: which was insulting, [00:40:20] Brett: You can’t [00:40:21] Christina: but [00:40:21] Brett: a fucking iPad with that. [00:40:23] Christina: No, you can’t, you can’t, you literally, you can buy some AirPods. Like that’s all you can do with you. Can’t buy a phone, you can’t buy an iPad. Like can’t do anything with it. And then, and I was like, I have. [00:40:33] Really high limits with a bunch of other places. So then they came back in the, and I was like, so I waited a couple of months. And, and then, um, and this was after actually there had been some reporting and this were true in my case because my credit wasn’t any different. When I asked for the, um, you know, higher limit was that they’d been giving women lower limits than men. [00:40:51] And, um, and so I asked after like three months and, and they, they gave, they raised it to like 10,000 and I was like, okay, that’s appropriate. You know, [00:41:00] so, [00:41:01] Brett: that feels correct. [00:41:02] Christina: well, no, I mean, honestly, based on like what my other limits were, and not that I would ever charge that much, although I did put, um, uh, Aaron, I don’t know how much longer you have to be able to be on with us. [00:41:13] Um, uh, before I kind of get into my laptop talking, but I did buy a new Mac book last week and it should arrive on Monday. I’m so excited. [00:41:24] Erin: Oh, my God. I do have to head out a little early and I wanted to raise this, um, bef before I do, before I leave, um, which is. We’re talking about money. We’re not talking about investments. Um, but, but while I was out, I was recovering from pretty major surgery. Um, I was a studious Overtired listener. Um, and So it was, uh, one weird for me to hear Brett talk about work, um, because I know in a very perverse way, I wanted to know what was going on. [00:41:56] But another thing, Brett, that you said very briefly. [00:42:00] But I was curious about this is investing in. Um, having a team like clean your house, having some cleaners come over, and this is something my partner really wants to do, but, um, you know, I, I try to be frugal on the ways that makes, that makes sense to me to be frugal. [00:42:20] And this is one of them where I, I don’t know if it’s worth like, Hey, instead of paying $200, $300 for folks that come over and clean. Whatever four hours. Could we just block off a Saturday and get some adult beverages and put on some music and just deeply clean? Or is it worth paying folks that come over? I, think that, yeah. [00:42:46] Brett: I, did I talk about like, I, I think it was happening last time we recorded, right? [00:42:51] Erin: Oh, I think that’s why you mentioned it. Yeah. [00:42:53] You didn’t really talk about it much, but I was, I was curious if you think that it’s, that it’s a good idea. [00:42:58] Brett: When they were done, [00:43:00] I walked around and I thought I could have done this. Like what’s, what’s the what? How is this worth? Hundreds of dollars. But then Elle came home and she was. Gog like could not, but like she noticed all of the things that, that had never been cleaned before that were now clean. And she just walked around the house in ecstasy for a good 20 minutes, just pointing to places where there were stains. [00:43:31] And now there weren’t saying, and it made me realize I just do not see mess. I do not see dirt. I just don’t see it. And that’s why if I tried to clean the house while she’s gone, like to make it nice for her to come home, I don’t do a great job because I don’t see the problem. Uh, so if you’re like me, it’s totally worth it to pay somebody who can actually see dirt. [00:43:53] If you’re really good at cleaning, do, do do it yourself, make it, make, make the choice for yourself.[00:44:00] [00:44:00] Erin: Yeah. [00:44:01] Okay. That makes me feel good. Uh, if not, just to see your, uh, co-habit taters, uh, expression when they see the results. But like the other thing about this too, is that maybe it’s a good idea to have folks do it because. Um, this might be like, I don’t know, going to the gym for some people, which is like, I want to do it and I will do it. [00:44:23] And then you never do. Right. And so your intentions might be good, but if you’re paying someone to do it, it will get done. It’ll get done really well. [00:44:32] Brett: Yeah. And you’re more likely to do your own cleaning because you know, someone’s coming, that’s going to see her. [00:44:38] Christina: Also it’s like done and. Then it’s all in a nice, it’s a nice place and you want to keep it up, but leave that. At least that’s how it is with me. I’m a massive fan of paying people to do stuff that I’m personally not good at. I’m like a massive fan. Like I, I’m a massive fan of like paying for like a cleaner and stuff. [00:44:55] And we don’t have a regular one right now. We’re getting to the point where we will have one, but we had one for years in New [00:45:00] York even, and we had a small space. We’ve had them intermittently in Seattle and yeah, I’m a massive, massive, massive fan of that. [00:45:07] Brett: Massive. [00:45:08] Erin: call. I have to aunt Viv out of here, although I won’t be replaced with another gorgeous woman. [00:45:13] Christina: Yes. Yes. Well, we are, we are very sorry. Um, to, to see you go, but thank you so much for being on with us. [00:45:18] Brett: Thanks [00:45:19] Erin: Thank you both get some, Get some sleep, [00:45:21] Brett: Get some sleep, Aaron. [00:45:22] Sponsor: Bespoke Post [00:45:22] Brett: Hey, do you like stuff and things? Do you like stuff and things? I have just the sponsor for you this fall, as you get back into the swing of things, bespoke post is here with a new seasonal lineup of must have box of awesome collections, bespoke post partners with small businesses and emerging brands to bring you the most unique goods. [00:45:46] Every month. I just got a box that included an awesome folding knife and a great looking canvas and leather bag. And the folding knife is super sharp and exactly three inches long. And I know this because I also got [00:46:00] this utility pen pen that has a ruler. And two screwdrivers and touch stylists and, and there’s also a pen, uh, cool stuff. [00:46:11] Um, no matter what you’re into though, box of awesome. Has you covered from autumn craft beers to cozy threads and camping gear essentials box of awesome has collections for every part of your life to get started, take the quiz@boxofawesome.com. Your answers will help them pick out the right box of awesome for you. [00:46:32] They release new boxes every month, across a ton of different categories. It’s free to sign up and you can skip a month or cancel anytime. There’s like, no, you can see. You can skip 12 months in a row and then finally order something, your subscription stays active and you don’t pay a thing it’s free to sign up. [00:46:50] So every box costs you 45 bucks, but it has over $70 worth of gear inside. Sometimes significantly more than $70. [00:47:00] Plus with each box of awesome, you’re supporting small business. 90% of everything that comes in your box of awesome is from a small up and coming brand. Get 20% off your first monthly box when you sign up@boxofawesome.com and enter the code Overtired at checkout that’s box of awesome.com code Overtired for 20% off your first box. [00:47:24] Get some stuff, get some things, stuffing things. [00:47:29] Christina: Stephan. Thanks indeed. [00:47:32] Christina’s New MacBook Pro [00:47:32] Brett: Oh, man. We talked about Facebook. We talk about Google and Facebook and crypto and, and stocks and practitional companies. And Ben. Yeah, this is, this is, this is exactly what I thought would happen if we didn’t have a list, [00:47:48] Christina: No, I know it would just be kind of a mish-mash, although again, I a smorgasbord, but I am very excited about my laptop that I’m getting [00:47:55] Brett: Oh yeah, [00:47:56] Christina: able to talk, we’ll be able to talk about more in depth, but I’m actually really, really excited. So I don’t know [00:48:00] if you had a chance to catch up on the announcements that they had made. [00:48:03] Okay. So the, and now the reviews are out. So this looks like, I know you’re not in the, in the market for a new laptop for awhile, but I do feel like what the, the new 14 and 16 inch models offer are things that will make people like you. Very, very happy. So, um, I got the new Fort, so basically they, um, [00:48:26] Brett: a 14. [00:48:27] Christina: yeah, so exactly. [00:48:28] So, so they’ve redesigned. The 14th. Well, they’ve cried. They’ve introduced a 14 inch model and they’ve redesigned the 16 inch and they brought back all the shit we missed from the 15 inch MacBook retina. So the HTMI is back. It has Mac safe. Again, there’s an SD card slot. There are still, um, three Thunderbolt, um, uh, four ports and the Mac safe actually. [00:48:51] Uh, so there’s, HTMI SD card, three Thunderbolt, four ports and Mac safe, but you can still charge through USBC. And the maxi cable [00:49:00] actually connects like through a USBC thing to the, um, charger. So it’s even better than the old way, which, you know, like if you lost, you know, that, um, if it broke or something happened to your, you know, power break, you’d have to spend a hundred bucks to get a new one. [00:49:15] Now you could conceivably just use like a $30 max save cable with. Another brick of your choosing if you had like a preference and if you wanted to, if you’re just someplace and you have like a USB-C cable, because a lot of people do now, you can still charge with that. So the, the design is better. Um, I think it’s about the same thickness, but it is heavier and, um, they’ve, um, improved the screen resolution so that it’s now actually like doubled and not scaled, which is how it was before they got rid of the fucking touch bars. [00:49:45] The touch bar is dead. but, uh, which, which I know you’re disappointed about, but you can still use your simulator if you like it. Um, I mean, [00:49:54] Brett: The simulators. Great. On a, on a 32 inch monitor, I wouldn’t take up a laptop screen with it.[00:50:00] [00:50:00] Christina: totally, but, um, in, in, in its place, they finally gave us full size function keys. So, I mean, I don’t know, I, I’m kind of down with that. The, the, uh, Arrow keys are still bullshit, but it is what it is. So, um, they fixed the keyboard. They fixed the design it’s heavier, which I think is good. Um, it also stands up a little bit higher. [00:50:22] So I think like the thermals, like they’ve done a really good job. And then the performance is just like, from all the testing, like it’s just insane. Like the compute performance doesn’t seem to be that different, although you have more cores now, so you can get up to a 10 core versus Nate core, but you can get up to a 32 core GPU and you can get up to 64 gigs of Ram. [00:50:44] So, um, which is kind of unified and kind of shared across things. So gaming is still a shit show because it’s Mac iOS, but for a lot of the other kind of GPU intensive tasks, especially if you’re using. Stuff. That’s been designed for [00:51:00] metal. It’s really, really good battery life is supposed to be incredible. [00:51:03] Like I’m so excited. I spent a lot of money on the laptop. Um, but my, my thought processes was like, okay, I have a really, really nice Intel iMac that I really love. And I have my framework PC laptop that I really, really love. I have my gaming PC. Um, but I really have wanted like an apple laptop that I could use for like five years. [00:51:25] So this is, this I think is going to be my five-year laptop because I got it. 64 gigs of Ram, the highest CPU and GPU core thing. I only got one terabyte of a SSD. I cheaped out there because I didn’t want to pay another $400 for, for two terabytes. [00:51:43] Brett: one terabyte to be perfectly adequate for me. Like, I mean, I offload everything on to like external SSDs and I have a Synology and I just don’t carry two terabytes where the shit around. [00:51:55] Christina: No, that was kind of my thought. I was like, my laptop has one terabyte. Um, my gaming [00:52:00] PC and my iMac both have two terabytes. Like I have this technology, I have external drives. I’m fine. [00:52:06] Brett: you have two terabytes of stuff on one machine and all of your other machines don’t have two terabytes when you try to switch machines or like you just asking for trouble. [00:52:19] Christina: Totally. And, and I think just from my use cases for Halloween, I think one terabytes will be fine. I have like five 12 on my current, um, Mac book pro. So like just having that headroom alone is going to be big. But, but, um, it, uh, it should be arriving on Monday. I’ll have more details, obviously next Overtired, but I’m so excited. [00:52:35] Cause they, they, it, it, it it’s, it was like a complete referendum on everything that like happened with the 2016 model. Um, cause they kind of rolled everything back. Right? Like they, they literally like did kind of the opposite, but it also seems like the performance and like the benchmarks and stuff that have come out like apple Silicon is really, really good. [00:52:58] Um, [00:53:00] From what I, you know, that the VM situation and containers story is still a shit show because apple just doesn’t care. Um, and that’s unfortunate, but, um, I think that like, even with emulation and stuff, like the performance is apparently really good. Like I have a colleague who he already got his cause he got the 16 inch model and his specs are the same as mine, except he got, um, a bigger, I think he paid for the four terabyte, hard drive was stupid. [00:53:25] He’s never going to use that, but he, he just likes to, he honestly likes to burn money so fine. Um, but he’s got like a windows 11 running a VM on one screen. He’s not even using RDP and RDP is actually really good experience. And then we have like cloud PCs and whatnot. So he’s running that on a VM, he’s got Linux and stuff and other VMs and he’s just still has plenty of cores. [00:53:47] And like his performance is just like, awesome. So I’m a. I, I can’t wait. Like there are still going to be some, some niggles, but like, this feels like this is like [00:54:00] the apple Silicon thing that I’ve kind of been waiting for. So I’m really, really excited. [00:54:04] Brett: That is exciting. I, so like I’ve had this, uh, apple, Silicon Mac mini for a while now. And I have like zero complaints. Like there are some things that I think I have some processes that misbehave tweet bot frequently misbehaves on me. And I think it has to do with the chip, uh, because it’s fine for me on an Intel platform. [00:54:28] Uh, but like I just killed it at 32 gigabytes of Ram. It was using, um, it gets a little crazy. Uh, but other than some, and the weird thing is like, I’ll get that notification, that force quit notification. Your, your Mac has run out of memory, but nothing else hap like everything is fine. Like I can con I can leave that up. [00:54:49] I can continue. I never see a beach ball. It just, it just keeps chugging it’s and I only have 16 gigs of Ram in this thing. I think that’s, I [00:55:00] think I max it out, but I think it max out at 16. But yeah, like I, I’m curious V if I didn’t have to have an Intel machine, uh, for my development, I would, I would be curious about replacing my MacBook pro with, uh, an M one, [00:55:17] Christina: Yeah, no, that’s the thing. I mean, like I obviously still have my, my Intel iMac and, and for development for some other things, like, I will still need that. And, and like, that’s the one thing I keep telling to people who are like, oh, you know, why is anybody even bothering with Intel anymore? And I’m like, well, you know, it, it is actually kind of a, not, you know, like guarantee thing. [00:55:38] Like there are some trade-offs right? Like there’s some stuff that just isn’t there and it is not going to be there. Right. Because apple, [00:55:45] Brett: right? Yeah. Like it, they did a great job with the rollout and with Rosetta and. Universal binary too. Like it was all well covered. And the transition for [00:56:00] 99.9% of people, uh, they’ll never notice, like, unless, unless they’re like into that kind of thing, they’ll never need to know that their chips that changed. [00:56:11] Um, but there are some things that aren’t, that are going to break and, and it’s going to be a little while before it, before it can just be like universally find a switch. [00:56:24] Christina: Exactly. And that’s the thing, you know, and it’s, and it is, unfortunately we are both in those like edge cases. Like, and if you do any sort of like web like server side, you know, like development, even like, you know, cloud first cloud native, you know, stuff you’re for the foreseeable future. I mean, this will probably eventually change, although I don’t think there’ll be on apple Silicon stuff because apple prices are what they are. [00:56:45] But like, you know, for the foreseeable future, like we are going to be running and executing things on x86 machines, running Linux. That’s just how it works. And obviously a lot PA LA packages have updated themselves and are making universal binaries a thing, [00:57:00] but like the Docker and the container situation. [00:57:03] Is not great on apple Silicon. So there are these trade-offs right. And, and, and you can get around them with simulation a little bit, but it’s still as you’re like, eh, you know, it’s, it’s not quite like there are, there are, there are pain points, but I’m really excited to just see like what this is going to be like, because I haven’t had an apple silicone machine, um, because I refused to buy one, um, with under 32 gigs of Ram, like I, I just flat out refused, um, [00:57:31] Brett: will be, I don’t know how far 64 gigs of Ram will go for you, but you would be amazed at what I can pull off with just 16. I think 64 is going to be an enormous amount of brown. [00:57:43] Christina: oh, no, it’s overkill. Right? Like I have 128 and the iMac and I don’t even touch it. So I think 64 is perfect. I only have 32 in the framework, although that can go to 64. So I think this is, um, I have 64 in, in my game PC again, overkill, but like, whatever. So I think 64, the reason I did [00:58:00] that is because again, I wanted this to be a five-year machine, so. [00:58:02] Brett: if, if the Mac mini could handle more Ram, I, I would have done it too. I’m not [00:58:08] Christina: Obviously, no, no, no. Without a doubt. No, that was the one thing people were disappointed with. They were like, we expected a new Mac mini. There’d been some rumors about that, but not a ton. I honestly was not expecting it. Cause I’m like they released new Mac mini, like every five years. [00:58:22] Brett: wasn’t a new Mac pro was there. [00:58:24] Christina: No, no, but the rumor is that that is going to have like a Jesus number of cores and is going to be massive. [00:58:31] That’s that’s going to be the hard one, right? Like a, I think it’s a matter of them getting the yields and the machine time and all that stuff. And B how do you, I mean, God, I, not, not that people won’t still do it, not that Lauren won’t still do, uh, um, apple, won’t still do it, but like, how do you tell people who, I don’t know, like two years ago spent $10,000. [00:58:58] On a machine, [00:59:00] Hey, here, we, we we’d really like you to, to, to buy a new one. Like that’s hard. [00:59:05] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there should be a discount program for people who fell for that. [00:59:10] Christina: I mean, I kind of agree, especially since, I mean, look and they were in a weird position, like they obviously were working on apple Silicon, but it wasn’t ready. And because the, the trashcan Mac pro they forgot about it and abandoned it. And it wasn’t until like five years later. And they finally like, had like a conversation with, you know, um, power users. [00:59:30] And then like in 2017, they like announced. They’re like, okay, we’re, we’re officially working on a new Mac pro and then two years later, three years later, like they finally, you know, release what it is. Um, I get it, like they were in like a weird spot. Right, right. Like they, they, the apple Silicon, especially at the high end stuff, just wasn’t ready and you would never want to launch something like apple, Silicon on a Mac pro first. [00:59:57] Like that would be just, [00:59:59] Brett: never get [01:00:00] trapped. [01:00:00] Christina: you’d never get traction. And, and, and that would just, if anything, that’d be insult to injury, right. Like you’d have people who were like, okay, we waited all this time and now you’re going to tell us, we have to ch we have to switch architectures. And do you know what I mean? Like, it’s just it’s um, uh, when they did the Intel transition, they had like almost everything available and they gave, you know, they had, the developer has just like they did with the, um, in one, would you able to get, but yeah, I mean, it’s just, when I look at it, it’s like, it starts at 50, 56 39 and, and just goes up from there. [01:00:32] And I’m just like, God, you know, cause I looked at maybe getting a Mac pro a year ago when I got my iMac and it was John Sera, QC. What are you doing? Cause I was like, well, I know that there’s transitioning to apple Silicon, but I want an Intel machine because I knew that there would be things that for years would not be ideal. [01:00:52] And I was like, maybe I just want to get the best I can get. And he was just like, no. And, and when Sarah CUSA [01:01:00] was telling me, no, I was like, okay, you know what? I’m going to listen. Like if Syracuse is the one who’s like don’t, then, then that goes [01:01:10] Brett: Yeah, [01:01:11] Christina: a long way. [01:01:12] On Teaching While Grumpy [01:01:12] Brett: you want to hear what was really hard for me this week? [01:01:15] Christina: Yes, please. [01:01:16] Brett: Um, I know we’re at an hour, but, uh, so I, I mentioned I I’ve been pretty tired, like just low, low grade tired all week. I have a new coworker, uh, you know, the guy, um, who. Because I, okay. So we’ve talked about this publishing platform that I built for Oracle using GitHub and Jekyll and how we’re like streamlining the content production process or that Andy and Victor is on as a, as a writer, but suddenly he’s thrown into this situation where he has to know, like get and get hub. [01:01:57] And, uh, [01:01:59] Christina: [01:02:00] Yup. [01:02:00] Brett: the problem is mostly get I’ll I’ll we’ll, I’m trying to teach him get, but I’m too tired to be like a super patient thorough teacher. And it’s leading to like entire branch is getting deleted or like he’s accidentally closing poll requests because I’m not explaining things well enough. [01:02:21] Christina: Right because, you know, right. Like, yeah. [01:02:24] Brett: I would, I would not like, I don’t want to jinx my chance of ever having a manager’s paycheck, but I, I do not have the patience for managerial stuff or [01:02:36] Christina: Well, I mean, [01:02:37] Brett: that managerial? [01:02:38] Christina: no, I mean, this is, I, I don’t think so. Mina Zuri will be more like ensuring that he has the right tools to do his job, but I, I, I, I think right. But whereas, whereas I think that in this case, like actually going through that process is probably not now I have, I am finding, I’m going to share these with you. [01:02:59] I found [01:03:00] just a quick Google search and some of them seem pretty well received, like how to teach, get commits and get up to teenagers. Um, [01:03:06] Brett: took a course, which is like, I thought, like he hasn’t figured out the difference between a fork and a branch yet. And that seems like pretty basic stuff. [01:03:17] Christina: yeah. [01:03:17] Brett: That I thought a course would have covered. So I guess part of it is like, I just, I assume a certain base [01:03:26] Christina: Why was going to say, I was going to say if you’re at that point. Yeah. I mean, it might, it might not have been, and it might not have been a good course. Like there are some courses that are good and some that aren’t right. Like, I know this well because a lot of a, I helped make training materials as part of my job and be a lot of my friends like do that too. [01:03:42] But even as their side hustles, they do, you know, courses for Pluralsight and, and um, and other places. Um, so, um, I, um, I’ll go through. I’ll see if I can find anything check. I don’t know if we, I bet. I bet there is something Oracle [01:04:00] probably has like a LinkedIn learning subscription, which is what lynda.com is. [01:04:04] Now. They probably have like a corporate subscription and it might be worth seeing if there are any high rated courses on that that might have some of those details, uh, for him to look through. But I’ll try to find some other resources for you because it is difficult to teach, but I, I don’t even know how I would, how I, how I would approach it. [01:04:23] I would probably, it would take me a lot of time to try to think about, okay, [01:04:27] Brett: Right. Well, [01:04:27] Christina: am I going to. [01:04:28] Brett: is I, I have, uh, I have more web dev projects on my plate. I have a, uh, content editing quota to me. Like I don’t have time to train someone else. Like that’s not, yeah, I’m trying to juggle it all. It’s been a bitch I’ve been working. [01:04:46] Christina: Right. Um, yeah, I’m going to try to find some stuff to maybe put your way, uh, like front end masters might have something I’m just trying to think of like, places that I know that are good, you know, that like have good courses because again, some of this [01:05:00] stuff is just bad, so you never know. Um, and, and also you never know. [01:05:05] Like w how, like what level of knowledge you need. And if it’s getting to the point, like, you don’t know the difference between like a fork and a branch, which can be confusing because they, they do, they seem like they do similar things, but they’re obviously very different. Right. Um, very , but I can understand why people would be confused cause you’re like, oh, well I’m forced to this, but I can still merge things into it. [01:05:26] And you’re like, eh, but it’s, it’s separate, right? Like it’s yes, you can, you can still, you know, take, you know, pull things from, from, um, you know, uh, another fork, but they’re very different type of, um, thing. And so it feels [01:05:41] Brett: especially like our whole workflow is based around poll requests and, and ideally pull re like we can make edits and request changes in the pull requests. But when the pull request is coming from a fork, we can’t push changes to that poll requests [01:06:00] anymore. Uh, so at least within the team, it’s way more beneficial for us to work in branches and he keeps forking it and then, uh, is unable to, uh, like push and merge and take edits and reviews it anyway. [01:06:15] Christina: no. Oh, part of me wonders if that’s the case, like, if that’s a tooling thing, if, if he doesn’t see that, if it’s not easy for him to figure out how to, how to branch [01:06:23] Brett: got him, I got him tower and I, today, I, I got, I thought tower was going to be self-explanatory and I wouldn’t have to teach him, but I, you have to have a base level of knowledge. So today I did the entire process of, uh, uh, branch, an edit, a commit, a push, a publish, and a pull request. And I screenshotted every step of it using the amazing clean shot pro or clean shot X, and, and then put it all together in a markdown file, wrote out what each step was, publish it with mark to a PDF. [01:06:58] And now we have, uh, [01:07:00] we have, uh, a training manual that covers exactly one process. [01:07:05] Christina: Right. Um, so my colleague Nina, um, publishing them for front of masters called, um, uh, and this was older. Um, but, but it, but it seems like this is probably still good called you know, like, um, get in depth and I’m going to look through this and see, this might still be too, um, it advanced, but I’m not sure, but [01:07:28] Brett: those, like learn enough, get to be dangerous books. [01:07:31] Christina: yeah, that’s what I’m kind of trying to find for you. I know I’ll, I’ll, I’ll do this offline. I’ll find some stuff for you. Uh, but cause, cause I feel like [01:07:38] Brett: Learn enough. Get new learning off.com/get. [01:07:42] Christina: nice. Okay. So that might be good too. Cause that’s the thing like, uh, I, I feel like. The tooling. Okay. You’ve done one thing of the process, but I have a feeling like the reason that he’s creating a fork and not a branch is because something in the UI or whatever, it doesn’t make it easy for him to see what he’s doing like that, that, that to me seems like a simple thing. [01:07:59] [01:08:00] The other thing I would say is, and this obviously will take time. And again, like, you don’t have time to do this, but maybe there might be other people on your team, um, who might be able to help with this. Somewhat, what I would do honestly, was I would try to pair program with him and watch what he’s doing to observe, because to me that would tell it, tell me the most, I’d try to figure out like, okay, what are you doing? [01:08:20] And, and then I can kind of see, oh [01:08:24] Brett: I need to be well rested before I can do that. [01:08:26] Christina: 100%. I’m not [01:08:28] Brett: I should have done that this week. I should have like done a zoom screen share with them, but I just found myself to like, [01:08:36] Christina: no, [01:08:36] Brett: add, you have grumpy too, to deal with it. [01:08:40] Christina: Well, no 100 and I think that’s completely fair. And, and so I feel like, um, but that, to me, like once you’re feeling rested enough, I would say, cause that’s helped me before, like both as a teacher and as a learner is getting together and, um, you know, pair programming, whether like using like the, you know, um, the visual studio, um, uh, plugin [01:09:00] to do like the screen-share stuff like works really well, but you could also just, you know, have him share your screen, um, in, in zoom or whatever tool it is that you use. [01:09:09] But I feel like watching him do stuff. The nice thing about the screen-share seeing like the visual studio live thing. The nice thing about that if you’re using visual studio code is that you can step in and, and, you know, like make corrections. Um, but I think even at first, like, uh, like just seeing what he’s doing is going to, like, that would give you a good, uh, recognize, cause that’s certainly helped me where I’m like, oh, I see what the issue is like you’re doing this and, and, you know, we can fix things much, much more quickly. [01:09:45] Brett: Let’s hope I sleep really well tonight and tomorrow I can be fresh faced and, and helpful. [01:09:51] Christina: I hope so. [01:09:52] Brett: He deserves better, [01:09:54] Christina: he, he does deserve better, but I think you’ll get there. But also, I mean, this is hard. I mean, I think that this is also [01:10:00] a real talk. If you can get kind of to a good place where you figure out the right sort of content, not that you have tons of time, but this is the sort of thing where this could be like a good side hustle. [01:10:10] This could be a course, like this could be something like teaching get to normies. I’m not even joking. Like, I feel like there’s, there’s a market for that because more and more. [01:10:19] Brett: it’s actually content they would love to have for the Oracle site. So I could just write it up for Oracle. [01:10:26] Christina: Yeah, you could do that. I mean, I was just thinking, like, make that money, but, uh, [01:10:30] Brett: They pay me enough. It’s worth it. [01:10:32] Christina: No. Totally no. And if it, and if it really would be like good for the site, because you never, I don’t know who the target audience is, it’d be good. But there is like something to be said for teaching, get to normies. Cause I’ve definitely had to do that or aspects of that before, like I’ve had to teach a market down to normies, I’ve had to teach other things to normies. [01:10:48] And, uh, I think a lot of times people underestimate, like, because version control is really powerful. And I think that if we could get, if we could teach more people how to use those tools, [01:11:00] a lot of people would just open shit up for them. [01:11:02] Brett: You should try doing customer support from markdown app sometime, uh, and teach people who think they know, but don’t [01:11:11] Christina: Uh huh. [01:11:12] Brett: and do it with a smile. [01:11:14] Christina: And with a smile, God. [01:11:15] Brett: I have I’ve over the course of what, 20 years of developing. I have very few pissed off customers because I’m very good putting on a smile and explaining things nicely. [01:11:28] You Should Pay More For Apps [01:11:28] Brett: I’m way nicer to my customers than I am to real people. [01:11:32] Christina: Yeah. That makes sense. I mean, they are paying you [01:11:36] Brett: $14, [01:11:38] Christina: well, I mean, okay, fair enough. I mean, that, that, that’s a really good point, actually. You’re like, [01:11:42] Brett: $14, five years ago. [01:11:45] Christina: Oh, no, but that’s my favorite because then they’re like, I paid $14 nine years ago and why? No, I don’t get this up. I’m like, oh my God, dude. I see people on Twitter with that all the time. [01:11:53] Like the entitlement I’m like it was $4 a decade ago. [01:11:57] Brett: Yeah, I’ve just like, we’re, we’re very [01:12:00] close, honestly, to, uh, NV ultra release and like we’ve decided to go subscription with it. And I just don’t give a shit anymore. People who hate subscriptions, don’t have to sign up, fuck them. We’re doing a [01:12:12] Christina: Absolutely. You’re doing subscription. It’s like, okay, this cost us a lot of money to develop. And if you want this to keep up, we have to have some sort of incentive to do it. I get it. Right. I get that. I get that. I get that as annoying. [01:12:25] Brett: we do subscriptions, then we can offer a free trial on the app store. There’s no other way to do a free trial on the app store. So in that purchase freeze or in-app purchase subscription and that’s it. That’s how it’s going to go. [01:12:39] Christina: No, totally. And I mean, I, and I, and I think the thing is, is like it, look, I agree. It sucks that you now have a jillion different subscriptions, but you know, it also helps that you get to figure out, okay, what apps do I actually really use and rely on? Because sometimes there’s stuff that I buy and then I never use it, or I use it a few times. [01:12:55] And so sometimes it’s a really nice forcing function to figure out how often do I really use [01:13:00] this and do I need to continue to pay for it? [01:13:01] Brett: You know what subscription is killing me, sketch. Like I use sketch maybe once every couple months. [01:13:11] Christina: Same. [01:13:11] Brett: I don’t like, I, I don’t need all of the features that are included in the subscription. I don’t collaborate with people [01:13:20] Christina: was going to say, I was going to say, I was going to say they now definitely have moved to the whole collaboration thing also. I’m sorry. Figma has gotten really good. Like I get Figma and I get sick when for free. [01:13:31] Brett: sketches great for icon design and an exporting web ready assets. It’s it’s, there’s not a lot else that is as good at that, but that alone is not good enough to I’m paying the subscription just because when I need it, I want it there. But that one, that one I don’t love. I, you can actually do a lot with the affinity designer program. [01:13:57] Christina: I really like affinity a lot. Um, [01:14:00] uh, their tools are great Saraf and, and they have somehow managed to not do a subscription, which I don’t know how much longer that will be able to last me. They seem to have like a good business. So I’m not trying to like, um, you know, like, [01:14:13] Brett: Yeah, I would, I would pay 50 bucks a year to keep using my affinity apps. [01:14:18] Christina: oh, I would too. I would too. I mean, cause the thing is, and I think I bought them for. I have them for iPad. I have them for Mac and I have him for windows. And I think I got them all at like, relatively like good prices. Like, I’m pretty sure I got them all for 50% off or something. And, um, if I paid $50 a year and then could have access to them on all platforms that would actually save me money. [01:14:39] Um, well, it wouldn’t save me money. I’d be, you know, cause right now I don’t pay anything after the initial cost, but you know, if like say they go to like, they finally released version two or whatever, which if they do it, I hope that it’s a paid upgrade. Right. [01:14:52] Brett: yeah, it almost has to be. Yeah. [01:14:53] Christina: you know, I want them to get that money, right. [01:14:55] Yeah. [01:14:55] Brett: they don’t release a lot of updates in general. [01:14:58] Christina: No, that’s true. They [01:15:00] don’t, but it is one of those things. Like I just, you know, um, I think they make great stuff and, uh, and I would like to support them. Um, you know, I don’t want what happened to text mate to happen again. I mean, no, because that, but that is like that, that is like the cautionary tale, right? [01:15:16] Like, cause you know, he’d promised the 2.0 and he promised free upgrades and people held him to that. And even though it took years longer because a feature creep and all the shit that always happens with text editors. I mean, as you’re running into with, with, with, um, uh, in V ultra and, and as happens with the sublime text and you know, pretty much any product, right? [01:15:35] Like with, for what, for text editors, like feature scope and stuff just kinda gets out of hand. And he, you know, put himself into this corner, especially since a lot of people like me got our licenses from a fucking bundle, um, you know, and like, like a software bundle. And so. [01:15:50] Brett: I’ve had multiple people in the last month. Uh, contact me to say that they ran into a problem with Mart and only then [01:16:00] realized they’d been using it for years after buying it for like a dollar 99 as part of like a bundle hunt bundle and decided to buy it again before they asked for customer support, which is [01:16:11] Christina: I appreciate that. That is awesome. Most people don’t do that though. And, and, you know, um, text mate was the greatest editor of all time. Like it’s still, to me is one of my favorites and I have to feel like the blow back from a lot of that killed him. I asked him to feel like, you know, the other kind of drama with things and, and then ultimately, yeah, it’s open source. [01:16:31] The development died the community at, by that point moved away. And it’s a shame because it was so good. And I feel like that’s the sort of thing where if you want to sustain that sort of thing, you have to have an ongoing payment for it. And if people were going to get mad about paying a hundred dollars a year for their tech Senator, like, I’m sorry, if you use it and rely on it every day. [01:16:51] Brett: Yeah, I should be. [01:16:52] Christina: you know, I mean, I mean, it’s why [01:16:54] Brett: You should, you should definitely invest. [01:16:56] Christina: it’s why Adobe gets away with charging, [01:17:00] you know, and they charge a lot of money, you know, it’s $50, [01:17:02] Brett: as much as they used to [01:17:04] Christina: Well, no, but that’s the thing is, [01:17:05] Brett: be like 600 bucks every year, [01:17:08] Christina: well, it still is that [01:17:09] Brett: for Photoshop. [01:17:11] Christina: Well, right. But, but the suite is, you know, it’s like 60 bucks a month or whatever for the full suite. [01:17:16] And that’s a lot of money. I’m not, I’m not saying it isn’t, but if you’re relying on these tools for your job and for payment, like, I feel like most people who complain about Photoshop pricing or Adobe creative cloud pricing are people who are not actually using it for their job. I feel like if you’re using this as a creative tool to actually make money, then you have no problem. [01:17:35] Like recognizing it as a, as a business investment. If you’re the people who, you know, like me used to pirate it back in the day and then use it for their personal stuff and not really make money off of it. Okay, sure. It sucks that maybe the kids today don’t have as easy of an entryway into learning this stuff, but there’s stuff like Saraf and there are still ways people pirated and whatnot if they need to do that. [01:17:57] But like, you know, [01:18:00] I I’ve most people, I heard complain about that and who I still hear complain about that are not people who made money off of their tools. Um, you know, like professional photographers, professional graphic artists, professional videographers, those were people who were like, I’m actually happier if it’s getting consistent updates and support rather than languishing. [01:18:21] And then every few years I have to spend another thousand dollars or whatever it is to buy, to upgrade this, you know, my, my, my programs. So yeah, that’s, that’s my rant about that. Like, I get the subscription fatigue thing. I totally understand, but I use it, like I said, as kind of a, a principle for me to go back, look back and say, am I actually using this? [01:18:43] Or, um, and am I not? And if I’m not, I have no problem on subscribing and then resubscribing if I need to, or, or whatever the case may be, you know, [01:18:51] Brett: Yeah. Like I just, I have a bunch of subscriptions. Um, it, it’s easy to cancel them. If, if I see a subscription subscription payment come up [01:19:00] and I’m realized I’m not using it, I can just cancel it. It’s not, it’s not that hard. [01:19:05] Christina: No. I mean it, and especially like, if you, and this would be good for MBS for as well, if you’re able to sell through the Mac app store, like apple subscriptions, make it really easy to manage that stuff. All right. And just kind of look through and be like, cancel done, you know, and I’ve done that a number of times. [01:19:18] Like there there’ve been some apps that I’ve bought in like, yeah, you know what, this really isn’t, I’m not going to do this for another year. And so I suppose I like can’t, if I paid annually, I canceled early. I enjoy it for the rest of the year, or usually forget that I have it, but I’m like, nah, I’m done. [01:19:32] Brett: We should probably get some sleep. [01:19:34] Christina: We should definitely get some sleep, [01:19:35] Brett: It’s been fun. [01:19:36] Christina: been super fun. No, this was kind of a chaotic episode, but a bit good Overtired style and. Um, I hope that you get some sleep for real and have a good weekend and thank you. I’m going to be with baby and that’s going to be fun and he’s going to be super cute. [01:19:52] And so, uh, follow me on Instagram for photos. So [01:19:57] Brett: Awesome. Get some sleep, [01:19:59] Christina. [01:19:59] Christina: [01:20:00] Get some sleep, Brett.

The volunteer CEO of the queer fraternity Delta Lambda Phi is in the house. Bryan Guffey joins the show to talk Netflix controversy, content creation, and JIRA. And that very real fraternity. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED SimpliSafe announced their brand new Wireless Outdoor Security Camera. They’re celebrating by offering 20% off your entire new system and your first month of monitoring service FREE when you enroll in Interactive Monitoring. To learn more, visit simplisafe.com/overtired. TextExpander: The tool Christina, Brett, and Bryan and wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Bryan Guffey (Twitter/blackqueeriroh Insta/blackqueeriroh) Delta Lambda Phi Archer Bones It Was Never About Dave Netflix supports chapel despite criticism of transgender remarks twitter.com/RainofTerra Squid Game youtube.com/c/JennyNicholson Unsolicited Fatties Talk Back insta/unsolicitedftb twitter/unsolicitedftb Maintenance Phase JIRA Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 259 [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren here as always with Mr. Brett Terpstra and also here with Brian Guffey. What’s up, what’s up everybody? [00:00:13] Brett: uh, I asked Brian how, how we should introduce them. And they said, uh, an Atlassian admin by day, a nerd, pretty much all the time, a person with a lot of ADHD and anxiety and the volunteer CEO of the queer fraternity, Delta Lambda, Phi that’s that’s uh, yeah, I feel like that probably is all we need to know about. [00:00:39] Bryan: Yeah, I mean, you’ll learn more. [00:00:41] Greek Life [00:00:41] Christina: think so. I think so. Um, so, uh, queer fraternity, um, I’m assuming this is, this is like, not like an official part of like the, is it a F is it an official Panasonic system or is it like a. Like w how, how does that work? The queer fraternity. [00:00:59] Bryan: No, [00:01:00] absolutely. It is. Um, the, it isn’t an IC fraternity, so we’re part of the north American Interfraternity council. So that’s where a lot of the big kind of fraternities are. [00:01:10] Christina: Yep. Okay. Awesome. [00:01:11] Bryan: Yeah. 18, 18 chapters across the United States and Canada. And we’ve been around since 1986. [00:01:18] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s really awesome. Yeah. And that’s right. Nick is the fraternity thing. I was thinking sorority, which is the Panasonic, um, think, cause cause there were like various Brett didn’t do Greek life. So he doesn’t know, but like there are, cause there’s like a difference, like co-ed fraternities, aren’t real fraternities. [00:01:33] Like, you know what I mean? They are, but they’re but they’re not. Yeah. So, so that’s that’s so that’s really cool. That’s awesome. So you’re the volunteer CEO. I had a sorority within my sorority, um, Epsilon Zeta. So, so we were Epsilon Zeta 80th data, which is easy home. Um, which I still think is probably the most. [00:01:55] Well, one of the most clever, like things I’ve ever come up with, especially since I’m, I’m fairly certain, I [00:02:00] was pretty drunk when I came up with that, but we were basically, I was alpha Delta, but we, um, had our sorority within our sorority, which was basically the girls who would like get drunk in the car, like during like meetings and like planning, like, like, you know, offsite, retreat things, you know, getting ready for, for, um, you know, Russians and stuff. [00:02:21] Like we were like, we cannot handle these bitches sober. So we would like go to the car to like, get drunk. So that’s that was, [00:02:28] Bryan: I was definitely the other side of like, I was president for two and a half years of my tap there [00:02:34] Christina: Oh yeah, no, I was, I mean, I, I was financial vice-president. Um, so that was so that honestly, well, look, I was good with the numbers [00:02:43] Brett: of course you were. [00:02:44] Christina: even, I didn’t even want to join a sorority. They were just really nice to me. And they kept taking me clubbing and I was like, damn it. And then my mom got so excited. [00:02:52] Bryan: Most people who join Greek life had no, uh, illusions of joining it in the first place. They get surprised by it. [00:02:59] Brett: Oh [00:03:00] my, my frat membership was a total accident, but if, if, uh, if, uh, if a co-ed frat isn’t a real fresh. And assuming a queer frat, uh, is not just CIS males is a queer frat or real frat [00:03:16] Bryan: so. [00:03:16] Christina: it’s in the national north American inner fraternity conference. [00:03:20] Bryan: Yeah. One of the things that is there, I don’t think there are any coed fraternities in and I see, but DLP is definitely the closest to it specifically because, and this is actually because of us, honestly, um, we got NIC to redefine their sort of gender parameter parameters. So they’re still, they still consider assignments fraternity, but every fraternity has the right to define what man means to them. [00:03:45] And to us, it really means basically anybody who, well, almost anybody and anybody, but not as this woman actually, which is, we’re not like worried about CIS women running and knocking down our doors. Honestly, they have [00:03:57] Brett: sure. [00:03:58] Christina: Right, right. Totally. [00:03:59] Bryan: but we [00:04:00] have a lot of, yeah, well maybe, I don’t know. That’s a good question. [00:04:03] We throw really [00:04:04] Christina: actually, you know what? I don’t think that’s true because the frats can have, uh, can have alcohol at their events. So, [00:04:09] Bryan: Oh, yeah, that’s true. Very good point. Um, so yeah, um, we just, uh, really had a lot of members who specifically this started with like a lot of trans men who wanted to join DLP. And then we got a lot of people who joined DLP, who then transitioned to be trans women. And then we had, I mean, I, myself am non-binary I guess, actually a gender recently, gender change, uh, pronoun stay them. [00:04:34] Um, but yeah, so we just were like, what we really want to do is expand this. So that’s what we did. It’s been pretty cool. [00:04:42] Christina: That’s odd. That’s actually. [00:04:44] Bryan: health is our number one concern too. [00:04:46] Brett: I believe that I think mental health in the queer community are very tightly knit. [00:04:52] Bryan: Yep. I agree. [00:04:55] Brett: I, uh, we didn’t have any Pratts at art school. [00:04:58] Bryan: Where’d you go to school [00:05:00] or art school? [00:05:00] Brett: Yeah. I went to Minneapolis college of art and design and CAD. [00:05:05] Bryan: Yup. [00:05:06] Brett: There was a lot of heroin and, and zero Greek. [00:05:10] Speaking of Heroin [00:05:10] Bryan: Speaking of heroin, actually, I’ve been watching for the first time Archer. [00:05:16] Brett: Oh my God. It’s so good. [00:05:19] Bryan: It is. It is. I didn’t think I was worried that it was going to be one of those satirical shows about assholes that just became like the show itself. Was it like about assholes, but it’s really funny. Yeah, exactly. [00:05:35] Brett: Um, yeah, no Archer Archer gets, gets it’s super good for like five seasons. And then it goes off the rails and is actually even better. They spend a couple of seasons where all of the characters are different characters inside of like coma fantasy lands, where nothing is the same. And they somehow manage to [00:06:00] pull off continuity through like entire seasons in coma land. [00:06:06] It’s amazing. It’s so good. [00:06:08] Bryan: I cannot wait. We’re in season four and we just started season five, I think. Yeah. [00:06:15] Christina: now I’m sad. I’m reminded that Jessica Walter died. And so now I’m sad. [00:06:18] Brett: Yeah, the, the, it kind of, I had no idea until after an episode, uh, in the last season, it said in loving memory of Jessica Walter and I had to go to Google because I hadn’t, I didn’t know. Yeah. That’s very sad. And they, they wrote her off beautifully in Archer. [00:06:38] Christina: nice. Okay. Cause I haven’t I’ve I I’ll be honest. I’m like years [00:06:40] Brett: She, she retires to a beach, uh, with, with the Cadillac salesmen and, and the sunsets. And, and she’s, I, I did not know while it was happening, that they were writing off a dead character, but they did it well. Um, so, uh, I’m told by the [00:07:00] discord a that, that I shouldn’t. Uh, shows that glorify cops. It wasn’t said specifically, but it was insinuated that I, that watching cop shows is bad except for Brooklyn nine nine, for whatever reason. [00:07:16] Um, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna go into my defense of castle, but I’m told that really goes off the rails about six seasons in, so, [00:07:25] Christina: Yeah, it does well, but this is why I don’t think it’s the glorification of cops it’s because Nathan Fillion is an asshole and, uh, yeah, unfortunately, um, it, it he’s, he’s like one of like the three kind of like just beaten people. Who’s been like, very like, like he he’s back Jospin and Josephine’s a piece of shit. [00:07:44] Um, and it’s also Alyson Hannigan who sucks and her husband who’s Wesley. So all three of them like, look, I can enjoy their work, but they all suck. Um, but he and the actress who played like his like partner or whatever, he, they, they hated each other. Like they hated each other [00:08:00] and they couldn’t be like, um, civil shepherd and Bruce Willis who were much more famous and like on a much bigger show and be adults and do it. [00:08:10] And instead he basically like. Required that she get fired and be written off, like for the, like, after like the, what ended up being the final season. And instead the show just didn’t get renewed. [00:08:23] Brett: Yeah, that’s too bad. It’s, it’s totally replaced Chuck for me as like just the show after a rough day, especially like, if I haven’t slept well and I just don’t have the, uh, fortitude to watch a thinker, uh, I just am defaulting to took castle on. I don’t have anything else to replace it yet. [00:08:48] Bryan: I just want to, [00:08:48] Christina: it’s fine. Sorry, go on. [00:08:49] Bryan: I just want to reiterate also my love for Chuck. Uh, I love that show so much and was so sad when it was over. Um, I, [00:09:00] yeah, I just, one of my favorite shows, I was also thinking about the fact that like, gathers so many people that work with Josh, Sweden, especially men that turned out to be trash. [00:09:08] Like Adam Baldwin, another one, like my goodness, I guess we shouldn’t really be surprised that that happened in Josh Sweden’s orbit. [00:09:18] Christina: no, we probably shouldn’t. But, but there were some people who like, who who’ve said nice things like, um, um, uh, what’s his face spike was very kind and spoke up and so did, um, um, uh, David Brianna’s and some other, you know, people. So, but yeah, [00:09:32] Bryan: oh, David um, got to say a great show to watch. What is the show that he’s in with? Um, uh, Emily Dyson [00:09:41] Christina: also stir, uh, yeah. Oh, oh God. What is that show? Um, uh, it was, fuck, [00:09:46] Brett: radio gold. I love it when we can’t figure shit out. [00:09:49] Christina: know. No I, no, no, no, [00:09:50] Bryan: bone, [00:09:50] Christina: Uh, bones, [00:09:52] Bryan: I would recommend bones breath. Bones is a really good, just fun [00:09:56] Brett: Isn’t that a cop [00:09:57] Bryan: of like [00:09:58] Brett: Am I supposed to stop watching cop[00:10:00] [00:10:00] Christina: No, you’re not. No. It’s FBI investigators. Look, I’m sorry. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a standard trope of television. And if you’re telling me I have to give up Barney Miller and homicide and the wire and like some good ass shit, I’m not doing it. Like, it doesn’t mean I support the police, but [00:10:15] Brett: Yeah, that’s it. That’s the thing is I am able to entirely support defunding the police and be opposed to police in general and, uh, be a prison abolitionist and still get into the character driven comedies and dramas around, uh, cop life. [00:10:35] Bryan: I would love it. Yeah. [00:10:36] Christina: show. [00:10:37] Bryan: Right. I would love cop shows. I would love cop shows even more. If there were no cops, honestly, it’d be like the perfect. [00:10:45] Christina: Honestly, and some of the best ones, like have very little to do with, I mean, I think that’s why Brooklyn nine, nine probably gets a pass. Um, is, is that like, you know, so little of it has to do with the actual act of policing, you know, like they’re in the station, but it’s, [00:11:00] it’s kind of like, you know, like all the shows in the nineties, like took place in like, uh, they were magazine publishers or whatever, and nobody ever wrote a damn thing or published a magazine, you know, it’s, it’s just scenery. [00:11:11] Bryan: Yeah. Nobody’s telling us to stop watching madman. [00:11:14] Christina: Right. And, and if they did I, and if they did, I’d be like, fuck off. [00:11:18] Bryan: Yeah. And I really do think, yeah. Tell him to fuck off. I agree. And I, like, I really do think it’s important to think about the way that art influences us to see. I mean, one of the things about those cops shows is they sort of allow us to draw the distinctions between what’s shown on television versus what happens in real life. [00:11:39] So without that example, uh, there would be less opportunity for criticism. [00:11:45] Christina: Right. Right. And I mean, and I think in some cases, some of them, like you have, like, again, I’ve mentioned this before. Um, but I homicide life on the street is one of the greatest television shows ever. And, and the wire is two and both of them are [00:12:00] not like they’re. I mean, the wire especially is like an indictment of the entire drug system, as much as it is anything else. [00:12:06] It’s certainly not celebratory of, you know, um, undercover, um, officers, even though like you sympathize with them, it’s certainly not glorifying. I don’t think any of the work in homicide is kind of the same thing where like you see kind of how tortured and fucked up the process is. Both when people get away, get away with stuff. [00:12:23] And also when they’re able to convince people who maybe didn’t do something to, you know, confess or, or they used already tactics, like it’s one of those things where at least for me, like, I feel like a, like you said, it does allow for more criticism. And I think in some cases it does a better job of actually portraying, like how messed up these systems are. [00:12:42] Bryan: Yes. Great example of that is the shield. [00:12:46] Christina: Yes. Yes. Yes. [00:12:48] Bryan: with Michael checklist. Oh my goodness. FX, [00:12:53] Christina: Affects man. [00:12:54] Brett: Let’s uh, [00:12:54] Bryan: great. [00:12:55] Brett: let’s talk about Netflix. How about Netflix? [00:12:58] Bryan: Uh, [00:12:59] Brett: Uh,[00:13:00] [00:13:00] Bryan: I managed [00:13:01] Christina: we want to do. [00:13:01] Bryan: Netflix [00:13:02] Brett: we do have three sponsors to get through. Let’s let’s have a sponsor before we start talking about horrible transgressions. Um, Christina, can you, can you talk about. [00:13:14] Sponsor: ZocDoc [00:13:14] Christina: I can, I can, uh, because, uh, I actually really loves doc doc. Okay. So do you get excited by a five star driver rating? Let’s be honest ratings matter a lot. Right. And when it comes to finding healthcare ratings matter even more. And so Zoc doc is an app where you compare doctors by their ratings and you read reviews from real patients so that you can book highly rated local doctors. [00:13:40] So you just download the freeze doc doc app. It’s the easiest way to find a great doctor and instantly book an appointment. And with the doc doc, you can search for local doctors who take your insurance. Like this is key because this is one of the more difficult things to do. Your insurance company’s website is usually out of. [00:13:56] And Ms. Zoc doc will help you find [00:14:00] someone who takes your insurance. You can read verified patient reviews, and you can book an appointment in person or using video chat. And you never have to wait on hold with the receptionist ever again, which is one of my personal pet peeves. I cannot stand to like, have to call and make an appointment someplace. [00:14:16] So whether you need a primary care physician or a dentist or a dermatologist or a psychiatrist or an eye doctor or whatever Zoc doc has you covered. So you can go to doc, to Zoc doc.com/ Overtired and download the app to sign up for free. And every month millions of people use doc, doc. I’m one of them. [00:14:36] Um, I’ve been using it for over a decade. It’s definitely my go-to whenever I need to see a doctor again, like I said, like if you move to a new place or even if you’ve been in a place for a long time, if you’re, if you have like a new insurance or whatever, you’re just trying to like find a primary care doctor, or you need a specialist for some reason. [00:14:54] This is where I always turn, because I can book it on the app. I can also read reviews and the [00:15:00] reviews because they’re verified patient things. It’s helpful. It’s, it’s like you, you get kind of a, you can read trends in them and kind of figure out, okay, this person is bused or this person’s really good, or whatever the case may be. [00:15:11] You can book the appointment in the app. Um, it’s great. Zack docs makes healthcare easy and now is the time to prioritize your health. So again, go to Zoc doc.com/ Overtired and download the Zoc doc app to sign up for free and book a top rated doctor. Um, many are available as soon as today. That’s Z O C D O c.com/ Overtired. [00:15:38] Brett: Nice job. That was such a good read. [00:15:41] Christina: It helps with literally been something that I’ve used for like 11 years. Yeah. [00:15:45] Brett: I’ll send you some money. We should make Brian do want what we’re paying them. [00:15:51] Bryan: Oh, absolutely. You know, that 200% of zero is amazing. [00:15:56] Christina: It really is. [00:15:57] Brett: 150, then we’ll [00:16:00] negotiate after the show. Um, so, so there’s this thing like, uh, um, I’m currently feeling, uh, I’m not gonna stop watching Netflix, but I understand that the controversy is very frustrating to a lot of people. Um, Brian, do you want to describe the controversy so we can talk about it either way? [00:16:25] (Never) About Dave [00:16:25] Bryan: Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So as many people know, Dave Chappelle released a new stand-up special and it was pretty successful. We know his last special. Um, his first special back to Netflix was really big. And, uh, once again, Dave goes right in on a trans people and he specifically talks about how he is team turf, um, and aligns himself directly with Jake Harout JK rally others. [00:16:57] There was a Twitter thread that [00:17:00] was posted by an employee of Netflix. Her name is, uh, Tara field and Tara, uh, toxic has, I’ve actually talked about this a couple of years ago when they released the Netflix released the last special of Chappelle’s and the idea about impact versus a fence, um, and basically called out Netflix to some degree for the idea that. It has no effect on society when it should, when it chooses to promote or give a platform to ideas like Dave Chappelle now, Ted Sarandos replied to this. And because it became a really, a big thing, got big on Twitter, blew up. And, uh, there was some controversy because Ted Sarandos, the co CEO of Netflix originally sent an internal memo. [00:17:52] That was like, yeah, we know. But also, you know, we promote a lot of queer stuff too. [00:18:00] And also Dave Chappelle’s last, uh, special beat us, lots of money. And so people didn’t like that. It was kind of tone deaf. Then he went on TV and kind of do the same thing. And then there was a walkout, uh, on Wednesday from trans employees at Netflix. [00:18:15] So that’s sort of where we are right now. I mean, Christine, I don’t know if there’s anything you want to fill in. I’m sure you’ve been paying attention to this, to. [00:18:22] Christina: Yeah, no, I’ve definitely been paying attention. Um, uh, so-so Tara and three other employees. I think the one thing, the reason for the walkout was that after the thread went viral, there was a meeting that would tell that was just for like director level employees or, or hire, um, it, it was their, their, I guests like quarterly, like, um, uh, QBR there, there, uh, quarterly business review meeting and, uh, Tara and these three other employee, or these two other employees joined, um, the meeting, they were, they were given a link. [00:18:51] Um, uh, they took that as being, you know, I’ve been invited to this. Um, they were then suspended temporarily. They were [00:19:00] very quickly reinstated, um, uh, and, um, The, sorry. I think, I think her pronouns, are she sorry? Um, she was quickly taken off a suspension, but there they were temporarily, uh, the, all the employees were temporarily, you know, um, suspended for an investigation for basically like violating, like for, for joining the meeting. [00:19:18] They weren’t supposed to have access to, even though they didn’t disrupt the meeting, even though they didn’t like have any, you know, they didn’t say anything. They were on mute the whole time. And even though Netflix is a really transparent company and releases, you know, all the findings of this stuff after the fact. [00:19:33] And so that was what kind of led to people were thinking, well, was the suspension because of the Twitter thread or was it, you know, other things. Uh, and, and so that was kind of what led to, uh, the walkout. So that’s, I think that’s maybe the only other thing [00:19:47] Bryan: Yeah. And then pumping, I think that also happened there was that then also Netflix fired the person who organized the walkout. Now we’re not saying that they fired them because of the walkout, [00:20:00] but, uh, Netflix says that they suspected that that organizer who was a black trans woman, uh, a black trans person leaked metrics about the special to this, to the press. [00:20:11] So there’s a lot of pieces going on there. [00:20:15] Christina: There’s a lot of pieces going on there. The one thing I will say about the leaking the data stuff, I have a feeling that if Netflix is going to do that, cause if it was for any way organizing, that would be a straight NLRB violation. Um, I don’t know what happened. I’m not a lawyer. I wasn’t there. [00:20:29] I will say that. That seems pretty cut and dry. I also think that it’s pretty cut and dry that they would be able to Netflix would be able to tell if someone leaked something or not. A lot of times. People who leak things are not very smart about how they do it. Even if they work at big tech companies, they’re just not. [00:20:44] Um, and so I don’t know what the situation with that was. I will say if you’re giving, like, cause there was specific information that was in a Bloomberg article that was like confidential. If, if you’re, and I don’t know if the person did this or not, but if you are leaking information, [00:21:00] whether you’re organizing or not, like personally, I feel like that’s a pretty fair thing to be fired for. [00:21:06] Bryan: We’ll also maybe take some tips from the people at apple, because it seems like Tim cook can’t figure out who they are, [00:21:12] Christina: Yeah. Although, although I don’t think they’ve been as, I mean, I know who they are, so Tim cook I’m sure does. So I don’t, I’m not even getting into that, [00:21:20] Bryan: yeah. [00:21:20] Christina: I don’t even want to touch that, but yeah, yeah, [00:21:23] Brett: So, what is the, what’s the resolution here? Um, like they’re not going to pull this special. They’ve already handled it poorly. So the current controversy, what, what is the resolution? [00:21:37] Bryan: Well, I think it’s important to note that the Tara also released a post on medium called [00:21:43] Brett: It was never [00:21:44] Bryan: about Dave. [00:21:45] Brett: Sorry. I was just reading. [00:21:47] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, um, for anybody it’s a great piece to read, to sort of think about the concepts behind this and what folks are really asking for. And I mean, [00:22:00] the, also the folks who organize the walkout did release demands, um, and those demands are generally pretty. [00:22:09] Like standard. They include like having more folks at the top of Netflix who are trans and queer director level and above, um, like letting, like putting warnings in front of specials that promote transphobia so that people are aware that it’s in there and then promoting queer stuff alongside those, uh, those, those pieces so that people do see the alt the alternative, um, uh, opinions. [00:22:36] Brett: that, I mean, I like that that’s great is if, if, like, if we accept the premise that having the special there does harm does having, uh, opposing content cancel out that harm? [00:22:54] Bryan: No, [00:22:55] Brett: No. [00:22:56] Christina: I know, I don’t think so, but I think it’s also, I don’t know, I’m, I’m in a [00:23:00] conflicted state cause I, I certainly don’t agree with, with Dave’s comments in the, in the special, I also pretty strongly feel like it’s really fine line. If you start getting employees who are not involved in editorial decisions or content decisions, making demands about what type of content can or can’t be on that flux because in my opinion, and as we’ve seen in past history, that can go the other direction real quick. [00:23:25] Um, so I’m not in favor of removing the special at all feel like they approved it, it fit their content guidelines. I w and I was very, I got a lot of blow back when I said this. I was very angry when Netflix removed a scene from, um, 13 reasons why that, um, uh, was a very graphic depiction of suicide, very graphic. [00:23:45] And I’m not saying that it wasn’t, but it was, it was very graphic, but that whole show, the whole premise of that show is about teen suicide. And a lot of people were very angry about that and said, there were studies that were then debunked that said, oh, it’s, you know, increased, you [00:24:00] know, um, uh, suicide ideation and whatnot. [00:24:03] And they wound up like two years after the first season, we’re moving a scene at the, the season valley. The first season. I was pretty, I was opposed to that because in my opinion, You made a content decision, you need to stand behind it. I don’t like the retroactively going back and removing it because a study came out that that made you look bad and you’re trying to appeal to someone. [00:24:25] Um, and, and again, also I think that when you make those sorts of decisions, it makes it very easy, uh, to then, uh, hit more marginalized groups, frankly. And I think that historically they will hit the more marginalized groups, way more disproportionately. If you start to make those sorts of content decisions. [00:24:41] So I’m not in favor of moving as special, they made, they made the decision to do it. And I feel like that’s just kind of one of those things, like you need to own your shit, but I do feel like. There does need to be a much broader understanding and a discussion and maybe some honesty from the company about why they’re making the content decisions they’re making. [00:24:59] And [00:25:00] if you’re making them, because it’s strictly about money and about yours and audience, and this is who you’re going after that, I think you need to be direct and say that, and not also try to have the platitudes of, we care so much about diversity and inclusion because you don’t, and that’s okay if you don’t like me personally, I’m completely okay. [00:25:17] If as a company or a network or whatever you want to say, I’m not down with that, but I’m not okay with is when you pretend to care about it and then make decisions with your content about money that go against that. [00:25:31] Bryan: Yeah, I agree. In fact, one of the big things that Tara pointed out is that she was co uh, VP of the trans ERG inside Netflix and. I mean, and we know this companies like Amazon, like Microsoft, like Netflix have even my company, we recently started employee resource groups. Like they have these big resource groups that are literally like they’re funded and supported by the business and they give people a voice and they give them [00:26:00] an opportunity to a degree. [00:26:02] But then you have these situations like you have here where we’re at a level where people are not in the room where the people making the editorial decisions don’t look like me or Christina. Honestly, they look a lot like brat and there’s a lot of, and so things simply aren’t considered it is once again, like you said, Christina, it’s about what, why do you make the decision in the first place? [00:26:23] And who are you going to be? Like, what does that mean about who you are because of that? Because if you’re just going to chase profits, you can’t, you cannot. But like pretend to have morals on top of that. Um, the only company that I know that’s ever been really good at that, um, they don’t chase profits and that company as, or as much is Ben and Jerry’s and even they’ve not been perfect, you know? [00:26:47] And so, um, there are there’s tension if you’re going to choose not to give up, uh, money, uh, for morals. And that is a choice that you can make. [00:26:56] Brett: This has been fun. [00:26:59] Bryan: Yeah,[00:27:00] [00:27:00] Not About Dave (and the fuck is a Brony?) [00:27:00] Brett: I spaced out a little bit. Okay. I got, I got a little bit of the ADHD I heard, I heard you say that a bunch of people look like me by which I assume you meant devilishly handsome. Um, devilishly handsome. CIS white males. [00:27:16] Bryan: Yes, actually probably 110% is that is correct. There are probably devilishly handsome. I don’t, well, Ted Sarandos actually looks a lot like Ted Cruz, which is really funny. Um, I [00:27:28] Christina: That’s so [00:27:29] Bryan: of him and I was like, wow, but it’s true. [00:27:31] Brett: devilishly handsome. [00:27:33] Bryan: That’s why I was like, Hmm. Maybe not always true, but yeah. [00:27:36] Um, and it’s wild that this is happening at the same time that Netflix is having this huge breakout hit with squid game, [00:27:42] Brett: Have you [00:27:43] Bryan: you know, and there’s all of the, I’ve not yet. It’s on my list to watch. [00:27:47] Christina: I haven’t either. So none of us have watched it. I, there there’ve been too many other things to watch, but I will watch it. I’m sure. [00:27:52] Bryan: Also my boyfriend, um, knows Japanese and so I was learning Japanese. And so he struggles a lot to watch [00:28:00] things in Korean because he’s still like learning Japanese. So he won’t be able to focus because he’s trying to like figure out what they’re saying because it’s kind of close, but not exactly. [00:28:08] Brett: is Korean similar to Japanese? I didn’t know that. [00:28:12] Bryan: Apparently I don’t know. [00:28:13] Brett: Huh? Interesting. Interesting. Um, yeah, we’ll have to do a reunion episode once we’ve all seen squid game. [00:28:22] Bryan: Oh, I’m down for that. I hear it. I hear it’s absolutely wild. [00:28:27] Brett: Uh, when, uh, actually a was subbing for Christina. Last time she. She was into squid game and, and just want to eat in the pre-show. Anyway, she was super, uh, adamant that I, I watch it. So I’m going to have to eventually. [00:28:43] Bryan: Nathan’s a lot like you, he doesn’t like to watch more than one, maybe two new things a night, and then just likes to watch things that he doesn’t really have to think about too much. I, on the other hand only want to consume new content to all of the time. [00:28:56] Brett: I I’ve developed this really bad habit with castle. [00:29:00] Uh, like I play on my phone while I watch TV. I think, I think probably 70% of adults do this. Um, but I tend to get distracted by an email right at the beginning of a castle episode, just long enough to miss the entire exposition. And then I spend the rest of the episode trying to figure out what the murder is that they’re solving, which kind of makes it more challenging and fun. [00:29:30] But I think it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s detrimental to the idea of a comfort show to really make yourself work like that. [00:29:37] Christina: Yeah, I think that’s right. [00:29:39] Brett: Yeah. [00:29:40] Bryan: You could rewind it, Brett. [00:29:43] Christina: Yeah. But that’s, that’s a whole thing. I don’t know. I’m doing like, like CSI’s becoming my comfort show right now and it’s kind of the same thing. I’m kind of like, I just want to know in the background, I just, I don’t need, I don’t want to have to like pay close attention [00:29:56] Brett: Yeah, I don’t there. The idea of rewinding a show [00:30:00] that I’m just watching to kind of relax too. It feels, it feels like even more work. Uh, I don’t know why, but my brain really rebels again. Like I set out, I have an hour, I’m going to watch an hour long show to like add 15 minutes to that feels like a real, real slug. [00:30:19] I don’t know. [00:30:21] Bryan: That’s a fair point. I, um, yeah, I don’t really have conference shows because I don’t watch TV in that time. Really like watching it to watch something new. [00:30:31] Brett: one of you’re part of that. 30% of it. [00:30:34] Bryan: yeah, I am. I also still play on my phone and mostly miss parts of it, but my. [00:30:39] Christina: I do that too. And then I do this thing now, and this is so bad where I’ll like, we’ll picture and picture works on more apps. Now, especially now it works on YouTube, which is great. But a lot of times I’ll like be playing an app on my phone, on my iPad or whatever, while I’m watching a show on something else. So sometimes I have my iPad next to me and I’m playing on my phone and like, that’s [00:31:00] just, that’s just the dumbest thing. [00:31:02] Bryan: but it’s also very ADHD. [00:31:04] Christina: Oh no. It’s like P ADHD, 100%. [00:31:07] Bryan: Yeah. I can’t, it’s really funny. I can’t do anything around the house without listening to podcasts. Like you gotta go make breakfast, put on a podcast. Can I take a shower, put on a podcast? You need to do any sort of work around the house. It’s podcast time. It’s literally the thing that like gets me to clean the house because otherwise it just feels like the worst, most impossible task in the entire world. [00:31:26] But if I have my friends in my ear, [00:31:28] Brett: Um, I I’m logging into YouTube right now. Cause I found this new YouTube that I have to tell you about. Um, and I thought I subscribed, but she’s not in my subscriptions. Um, is it Jenny Nicholson? Yes. [00:31:42] Christina: Oh, she’s awesome. I love her. [00:31:44] Brett: her. She, she is super funny, but if you’re not paying attention, you would never know it because literally every like biting remarks, she makes she, she does it dead pan and it’s like a throwaway line if she just immediately moves on, uh, [00:32:00] she, [00:32:00] Christina: her, her thing on her thing on a dear. Evan Hansen was so [00:32:03] Brett: I haven’t seen that one. Um, [00:32:05] Bryan: I have to check [00:32:06] Brett: she just like, she has like a two hour video on the vampire diaries that [00:32:10] Christina: Yes. And it was [00:32:11] Brett: like, I don’t, I don’t have time for that, but I watch her like a 10 to 30 minute videos and I find her hilarious. [00:32:20] Bryan: I see the Evan Hanson one and the vampire diaries. I don’t know what it is, but watching long YouTube videos seems nearly impossible for me. Like it’s just very overwhelming. [00:32:30] Christina: No it is, but yeah, but, but no, she’s good. She did. Um, uh, actually the first person I ever saw was she did like a, uh, it’s called, uh, the last Brony con a fandom autopsy. And, um, it was, uh, I I’ve never really followed any of the, my little pony, you know, Roney stuff. I don’t care about any of that, but I’m, I’m extremely online. [00:32:51] So I’m of course aware of it. And apparently she was like Brony famous because when she was in high school or college or [00:33:00] something, like she made some animated fan series and done a lot of the voices in Britain, original songs and stuff for it. So she’d actually been to some of the conventions and stuff, like as, you know, one of those people. [00:33:09] So her perspective was really interesting. And, um, even though it was like an even though like you, like it’s an hour and 11 minutes long. How the hell am I gonna watch this? Um, it was like remarkably riveting. So yeah, I’m a big fan. [00:33:23] Bryan: I have a friend over fraternity brother. We aren’t exactly friends, but he is a PhD in sociology who has literally literally studied Bronies. [00:33:33] Christina: Amazing, [00:33:34] Bryan: know it’s absolutely wild [00:33:36] Brett: are Bronies? [00:33:37] Christina: uh, male fans of my little pony. [00:33:39] Bryan: and specific like bros [00:33:41] Christina: Yeah. Break bros. It started on, it started on like four Shan and then they kind of like took over the Phantom and that’s actually part of her interesting, like commentary on it because she’d been a fan of like the original series and the step, like, I guess the nineties, like as a little girl, like she was really into this, you know, as like a little girl. [00:33:56] And so she was excited about the reboot and then she would go into like [00:34:00] these spaces, which was all about ponies and then suddenly became very male dominated and was in some ways like people would act like if they didn’t know who she was, they would like almost try to be like, you’re not a real fan, you know? [00:34:12] And she’s like, she’s like, who the fuck are you? Like. [00:34:15] Bryan: This is my little pony. [00:34:17] Christina: this is my little pony I’ve been here since I was six. And also she also had the butterflies that they didn’t know where like she, you know, done the span, like very, very like awesome, like animated, like, like they did a lot of work to make their own, um, like, uh, you know, um, computer animated stuff with Aboriginal music and shit. [00:34:37] Like, so she was actually legit part of the fandom, but she’d have like these, these dudes, these bros, these, whatever, these, you know, for Shannon, like people who like it started out as irony. And then they really liked it. Who would be like, no, you’re, you’re, you’re not hardcore enough. You’re not, you’re not real, you know, like gatekeeping her. [00:34:55] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:34:55] Brett: Speaking of videos because we’re talking about YouTube. See, speaking of [00:35:00] video, Simply safe, just launched their new wireless outdoor security camera. That’s right. Simply safe. The system that us news and world report named best home security of 2021 just got even better. This brand new outdoor security camera is engineered with all of the advanced tech and security features you want and need to help keep you and your family safe. [00:35:22] It has an ultra wide, 140 degree field of view. So you can keep watch over your entire yard. It has 10 80 P HD resolution with an eight X zoom. That means you can zoom in and clearly see things like faces and license plates to capture critical evidence. It has built in spotlight with color night vision. [00:35:41] So you can keep an eye on what’s going on day and night. It’s super simple to set up and usually just takes minutes and it has easy to remove rechargeable batteries. So it doesn’t need an outlet and it can go anywhere on your. This camera has it all. And it integrates with your simply safe home security system. [00:35:59] It’s extending [00:36:00] its protection to the outside together. It means every door, window, and room are protected. And now your property will be to, to learn more about the exciting new simply safe wireless outdoor security camera visit simply safe.com/ Overtired. That’s simply with an eye what’s more simply safe as celebrating this new camera by offering 20% off your entire new system and your first month of monitoring service for free. [00:36:26] When you enroll in interactive monitoring again, that’s simply safe. S I M P L I S a F e.com/ Overtired. Go check it out, get your, get your video updated. You can see everyone’s faces in license plates. What more do you people want? [00:36:41] Christina: But [00:36:42] Bryan: Give me your license plate now. [00:36:45] Brett: Um, Brian, do you want to do the next raid when we get there? [00:36:49] Bryan: Absolutely. I love TextExpander. [00:36:51] Brett: Awesome. [00:36:51] Christina: yeah. [00:36:53] Before we move on from YouTube… [00:36:53] Bryan: Um, before we move on from YouTube, I wanted to just shout out, uh, one thing that’s happening. I don’t know. I’m sure. Christina, you [00:37:00] remember sailor J um, yes, she made all of the contouring videos. Um, and then all of her stuff was ripped off from YouTube and just people literally put it all over tick tock when tick-tock was getting big she’s back. [00:37:14] She now has a Patriot and she’s putting her content behind a Patriot. And so that people can’t as easily steal it. So I saw the. [00:37:22] Christina: will, but that’s awesome. [00:37:24] Bryan: Yeah. She also was on a, what was that show that came back? Um, ah, man, another great, uh, content stuff, but she was on the show. Tacara Smith. Um, not for auto. [00:37:42] Christina: Okay. [00:37:42] Bryan: Yeah. She’s in Nosferatu and then she, yeah, she just started making video content again. [00:37:49] And so that’s really exciting. I hit that, uh, be a patron button very quickly. Cause her account content with some of the best stuff I’d ever watched on YouTube. [00:37:58] Brett: Speaking [00:37:58] Christina: no, her content was great.[00:38:00] [00:38:00] Brett: um, I [00:38:01] Bryan: drop those. [00:38:02] Brett: have a segue. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to interrupt anyone, [00:38:05] Bryan: That’s okay. [00:38:06] Christina: I was just saying that’s [00:38:06] Bryan: Every time you say I have a segway, I think of somebody riding effect way. Like all the time we had a director at college, like the head of our student life had a segway and she would ride it around the student union all of the time. [00:38:20] Brett: was I met was on a segue. Um, um, um, speaking of content, I heard you have a new podcast coming up. [00:38:31] Bryan: I do have a new podcast coming out. Um, it’s really exciting. Uh, it’s called unsolicited fatties. Talk about. And it is a, an exploration of, uh, really we start with advice, columns, and we review like old advice columns that, uh, give advice to people about how to deal with issues around anti-fat illness, but from a fat liberation lens, this all popped off from an original dear prudence column [00:39:00] where somebody was like, my friends, my friends are really into body positivity and they don’t seem to like that. [00:39:05] I’m going to the gym all of the time and talking about my weight loss. And so, um, and like, of course the comments on the dear prudence column were like not great. So we took that and reinterpreted it in our first podcast, which drops on Halloween. I’m really excited to have some really great people straight from like people who study this. [00:39:25] Like, and, um, my friend also Deshaun Harrison, who just released a book, the belly of the beast, which is about anti-blackness or anti fatness as an anti-blackness. So really excited about that. [00:39:36] Brett: I had a, I had a guest on Systematic before it’s long hiatus, uh, who was a professor, a and a Crusader for, uh, fat rights, I guess, uh, fat. I can’t remember what the name of the movement was, but, um, fat liberation. Yes. Um, so, so I got a, I got a [00:40:00] bit of, uh, an introduction to, uh, we talked a lot about, uh, what’s wrong, especially in America’s medical center. [00:40:09] Uh, and it’s the way it treats fat people. I find it very interesting. I’m not, um, I’m technically obese. I’m not, I’m not abnormal. I don’t think I don’t feel terribly discriminated against for my own weight. Uh, but I see it’s opened my eyes to, to the way a lot of other people are treated. [00:40:31] Bryan: Yeah. I mean, we could actually start with the fact that most fat people, uh, I don’t like the word obese, the term obese is considered a slur. Um, yeah, because I mean, it is a medical term, but there’s this idea that medical terms can’t be slurs, but like, we can talk about the fact that idiot used to be a medical term and that is definitely a slur. [00:40:54] And so they’re really the definition of a slur, I think is, does [00:41:00] it is like, is it used to affectively oppress people or group a set of make a group of people that it’s okay to look down on to some degree. And I think that’s what happens with the word obese. You could have that same conversation and just talk about people being fat. [00:41:14] But for some reason, we like created this other term and there’s the other great podcasts. I recommend people listen to his maintenance phase. That’s a phenomenal podcast with, uh, I always forget his name, but the guy who’s on you’re wrong about, uh, the host there. [00:41:32] Brett: which they’re retiring, but anyway, go [00:41:34] Bryan: Yeah, he is retiring from there, but yeah. [00:41:36] Um, it, you know, I’ve been fat for a lot of my life. I’m 65, I’m about 400 pounds. Um, I carry it well, but like, I’m not a small person. Uh, and also like, my mother had a lot of issues with her weight. So she like started putting me in a weight Watchers at like the age of like 14 and stuff. So yeah, a lot of issues around weight, [00:42:00] but, uh, it was really interesting to me from the fat liberation movement, which is really just like, can you let fat people be treated like everybody else? [00:42:08] Because I think a lot of people don’t understand the way that fat people, if we go to doctors, um, and things we literally, I like will get just told to lose weight instead of [00:42:20] Brett: everything is everything is as a, as a result of your weight and you get no other medical insight. [00:42:26] Christina: Right. [00:42:27] Bryan: Yeah, the number of people, I was just reading recently about somebody who like literally had a tumor, like for three years in her body, but the doctors just kept telling her to lose weight and they wouldn’t do scans and things like that. [00:42:40] I was literally recently at the doctor and this is the doctor who I was, you know, I was thinking it was Okta actually is a doctor who’s like through one of those concierge medicine services. They’re supposed to be really nice and good. And we’ve had the conversation about how I’m like, I’m not in here for weight loss. [00:42:57] I want to be healthy. I want to make sure my all, like all of [00:43:00] my, you know, metabolic or my blood work is good. And he goes, well, you know, if you’re interested in losing weight, there is this pill you can cap. And I’m like, absolutely not. You know, even like, even that after we just realized, he was like, wow, your blood pressure is amazing. [00:43:15] Like here he is offering me a weight loss [00:43:17] Brett: what was the pill? [00:43:18] Bryan: I don’t even know. I didn’t even get him to tell me what the name was. Cause I didn’t want to hear it. Or I may have blocked it out. I don’t know. [00:43:24] Brett: I want to try. [00:43:25] Bryan: I mean, honestly, you learn. I mean, a lot of that stuff is just speed in so [00:43:30] Christina: Yeah. A lot of it is a lot of it is, although there are things, um, uh, you know, to where, like, you have to be careful because if you are over, like, if your BMI and BMI isn’t a perfect metric, but if it’s over a certain thing, in some cases, like they don’t actually like, you shouldn’t be prescribing people, those sorts of pills. [00:43:46] Right. Like that can actually be really bad. So, but, but, but, but, um, but, but I know what you’re talking about. Like, uh, cause my, my husband deals with that a lot where he’ll go to doctors and like the very first thing that they want to focus on is the [00:44:00] weight and, and oftentimes. You know, and I think this is why, um, he and I, well, we have different experiences and I guess, different perceptions of doctors for lots of reasons. [00:44:09] Our, our childhoods were really different. Um, I have a helicopter parent and his mom was more like free range, um, for one, but also just because I am a thin person and with the exception of like a, like a 18 month period of my life, I’ve always been at the opposite end of the spectrum where, and I was often talked to about weight, but it was insinuated that I had an eating disorder when I didn’t, um, uh, which is also very harmful. [00:44:36] Um, uh, the, the societal differences are obviously different, but it, it’s not good either way. Like, I definitely can say that, like my medical concerns have been taken more seriously. Um, just because of, of that, which is completely unfair. [00:44:52] Bryan: Well, yeah. And that’s part of Antifa. I mean, like all of that is a part of anti-blackness, right? Like it’s this idea that the best thing to be, um, to some [00:45:00] degree is as soon as you can be, and then until you’re too thin and, but then it’s just about weight. Like we’re not asking, how are you? Like, how is your heart rate or anything like that? [00:45:10] It’s just like, what do you look like? And it’s, yeah. It’s pretty terrible. [00:45:15] Never too late for Mental Health Corner [00:45:15] Brett: Can we, uh, can we do a mental health corner? [00:45:18] Christina: Yes. [00:45:19] Brett: God, this is all reminding me. I had a, I had a psych appointment this week. Um, well, I’ve had more frequent manic episodes. Uh, listeners will be over. Um, so I mentioned this to my doctor and she immediately, uh, she lowered my focal in dosage, which it’s cool if it, if, if it keeps me from getting manic that’s, that’s cool. [00:45:40] I’ll take less Focalin. Um, she raised my, the, the staffers that I’m on that like is my mood stabilizer, um, up to that. And now I’m waiting to see what the effects are. I have to check back in in two weeks and she also ordered this whole panel of [00:46:00] screenings and testings that I have to go do. I have to get EKG, GS and S and neuro appointments. [00:46:06] And that’s super stressful to me. I like freaked out after that appointment. Just the fact that next visit I have to go in. In person, I’ve been doing video telehealth and I have to go in, in person so they can check my blood pressure. And I’m so scared to have people check my blood pressure. That as soon as I see the blood pressure cuff, my blood pressure shoots up, it never goes well. [00:46:31] So that’s my mental health corner. It’s um, I’m a little nervous. [00:46:35] Christina: can understand that a question for, for both of you, um, have either of you received, um, the booster [00:46:41] Brett: No, is it available to me? I don’t know that it’s available to me yet. [00:46:45] Christina: Oh yeah. No, it’s valid everybody. Like they, they claim that like you need to be over 65 or have an extenuating condition, but every medical professional that I’ve talked to says that it’s just like before the name of the game is getting, um, uh, shots in arms. So if [00:47:00] you Madonna just got approved. So if you had mudra, if you had Madrona, you can now get that, um, Pfizer has been approved for awhile and they just approved, um, that if you needed to mix and match, you could. [00:47:10] So if you had like Madrona, you could get Pfizer. They’re not recommending that necessarily, but they’re saying like, if that’s what happened or if like, if you had Johnson, Johnson, you could get a booster of one of the other ones. So they just prove that, um, I haven’t hit six months yet. I think. Well, actually, no, I just hit six months. [00:47:25] Um, but I’m going to try to, to get it like next week, I think before I go to Atlanta for. [00:47:30] Bryan: Today’s my two week anniversary from being boots. [00:47:35] Christina: Awesome. Congrats. [00:47:36] Bryan: but I, there was actually my worst experience of all of my vaccinations ever, because I had to go into a grocery store here in California and like wait for an hour before I could get the shot. And the thing about me is I literally have not been anywhere. [00:47:53] And that was my first time in a grocery store in over a year, over two years old. [00:47:57] Brett: Where have you been [00:47:58] Bryan: Um, since the pandemic started, [00:48:00] oh, just getting them picked up or delivered. We did delivery for awhile. Um, and we had to use like this specific company because, uh, my boyfriend was like, we are not using Instacart or any of those in California because they fought to remove the gig workers from protections in California for employees. [00:48:19] Um, so there’s this one company that actually allows you basically allows people to set up their own, like little businesses doing it. And they get all, they get the whole cut of everything. So we use that for a while, but it was pretty expensive. Um, but then our Albertsons nearby started doing, you could just drive up and then put it in your car. [00:48:36] So that’s what we do now. I’ll probably let him go back into a grocery store here. Probably like in about a couple of months. I really haven’t been outside. Honestly. I’ll be seeing my parents in two weeks and that’ll be the first time that I will have spent extended time with anyone since I moved to California last year. [00:48:57] Christina: Oh, my God. [00:48:58] Bryan: Yeah, [00:48:58] Brett: I’ve gotten so [00:49:00] used to the curbside pickup that even though some restaurants are open now, I still just order curbside pickup. Um, I tried to order sushi last night. I did eventually order sushi last night, but to check out of the online ordering, you have to confirm your, uh, phone number and you, you, you, you can’t store your user. [00:49:24] You have to confirm it every time you order. And it was sending the confirmation, uh, number the co the, the, to have a code, uh, about 30 seconds after the timer would run out. And I spent half an hour trying to get it to time correctly so that I could enter the code and verify my phone number. It was, I don’t know what’s wrong with their system, or if it’s my phone, I don’t know, but it’s not the first time this has had. [00:49:53] This is just old people problems. I’m sorry. [00:49:56] Bryan: no, it’s okay. I mean, [00:49:57] Christina: no, no, no. It’s good. It’s good. [00:50:00] No, I am. No, that’s really, um, um, uh, so I’ve, I’ve gone up more, although I still like, not a lot, but, um, yeah, I need to get, I need to get my booster. Um, and I mean, I get everything delivered, [00:50:13] Bryan: Yeah, I want to be clear. Like I haven’t gone out because I have extreme illness, anxiety. Like it’s one of my big mental health things. Um, like over this past year is when I started taking lots of like anxiety meds. I had never taken them before, even though I’d been diagnosed with anxiety previously. Um, so like, that’s been a big thing for me from the mental health perspective. [00:50:37] Like almost every day for a long time, it was like, is this weird tickle in my throat? COVID even like now, even now we get, like, we got taco bell yesterday [00:50:46] Christina: I love taco bell. [00:50:48] Bryan: and they have these, the new, like they have these new tacos that like are just really creamy. And so like, you don’t even need sauce on them and they taste amazing. Um, it’s amazing. [00:51:00] And sometimes I will [00:51:01] Christina: about breakfast now. [00:51:02] Bryan: do it. I will think about. I will worry that I will somehow be able to get COVID from the packaging, even though I know, like, it’s literally never, but like, there’s been no cases that way ever, but like, my brain is like, well, maybe it could be you. [00:51:20] That is the person that it happens to. So yeah, it’s been a mess. And then I’m also from a mental health perspective. We’re playing with my ADHD meds again, after like years and years and years, I’ve been on Strattera for like forever. Um, but I love my job now, which we’ll get into in a minute. Um, was having more trouble focusing. [00:51:41] And so now we’ve started to swap in some Adderall and drop down the amount of Strattera. So, you know, like every three weeks meeting with the psychiatrist, doing all of that, playing the fun game of getting your meds the last day that’s possible because they won’t give it to you any earlier because it’s a schedule, one drug, all of that fun stuff, but it [00:52:00] seems to be working with them, having a better amount of focus at work. [00:52:04] I struggle because I’ll run into the situation where like, I’m going, going, going until about one in the afternoon. And then my brain is like, uh, work is why would you work? And then it’s like one to four before I could, before I like, feel like doing work again. And then sometimes I make it back to my desk. [00:52:22] Christina: so my whole thing is so, um, my anxiety and stuff has been worse because of COVID, but I found that because I’ve like been inside more, that’s made it worse. So like I’m such a social person and I really do thrive on like being around people that like I’m having an out force myself, like whether I want to, or not to just like get out more, because it’s really bad for me to be like, confined. [00:52:44] Like it’s, it’s been really, really bad for my mental health, like really bad. [00:52:48] Bryan: Yeah. I didn’t realize that until I moved here. Like I was at home for most of the first year by myself and really moved to California, like to [00:53:00] live with my boyfriend initially, like as a test run. And we’re just going to do it over the holidays because I didn’t want to be in Ohio between the election and the inauguration as a black person. [00:53:10] Christina: Yeah, I don’t really know. [00:53:11] Bryan: Yeah. Um, I mean, I’m in the desert of California in Kern county, which is, uh, Kevin McCarthy’s county. So it’s like, not that much better. Um, but, uh, I got here and it was like a giant weight off my shoulders. I didn’t realize how lonely. Like at all, they’re like, and my, my boyfriend sometimes gets annoyed. [00:53:29] Cause he’s very much like a loner he’s comfortable being alone and I’ll just like, knock on his door being like, I just wanted to say hi, can I sit in here? This one was sitting here while you play video games. Yeah. [00:53:41] Christina: Yeah. [00:53:42] Brett: We should talk [00:53:42] Bryan: Which we now [00:53:43] The moment you’ve been waiting for: JIRA TALK [00:53:43] Brett: we should talk about Jarrow all we have in that last hand guy here is Juris low, or is Oracle’s JIRA slow. [00:53:52] Bryan: Oracle’s JIRA is slow. [00:53:53] Brett: It’s so slow. [00:53:54] Bryan: And I can say this because we just did an upgrade on our job and it’s [00:54:00] so much faster. So we read, we were having like crashes every day. I, it was, it was such a mess. And our company was like behind in terms of where things were. It was, we were not a current version, but now that we’re on the latest, almost latest version of JIRA, everything is so much faster. [00:54:17] Brett: I got it. I got to talk to whoever the powers that would determine this are, I think it’s a combination of the VPN and, uh, just horrible install. Everything on the VPN is horribly slow. [00:54:30] Christina: Yeah. That’s been like a constant for you. Is that, I don’t know, like if you’re far away from like a note or like what, or if it’s like, however their config is, but that’s been like a frequent complaint that you’ve had. Is that everything that VPN is [00:54:44] Brett: Well, and so I’m working with Victor. I’m sidetracked already, but I’m working with Victor and he keeps he’s logged onto the VPN. And while he’s logged on with like any connect, instead of through our clever little Docker solution, he can’t pull [00:55:00] from GitHub like command line, get doesn’t work when he’s on VPN. [00:55:05] It’s very frustrating. [00:55:07] Christina: and, and, and he’s on a Mac weird, cause I could understand, but with like a windows thing, because windows get as weird, but that is, uh huh. [00:55:18] Brett: So the only thing that has made JIRA at all bearable for me is we’ve moved all of our like content production issues into a Kanban board. And, and now I can just click a like w on one page without having to like, go between issue pages. I can just click an issue, uh, edit, change that as, uh, attributes and then drag it from column to column. [00:55:48] And it’s so much nicer. [00:55:50] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as we said, as we were talking offline, JIRA is the worst of all of like is terrible, except for every other, like [00:56:00] one of these solutions out there, you know, it, the things like, like Atlassian is doing this thing where they’re, they’re ending their server licensing and making you move to either tape their data center product, which is basically server, but allows you, like, it’s the only supported way to do like a high availability. [00:56:18] And it’s like three times as expensive, or they’re trying to force you to cloud because that’s what they really want you to do is move on to their cloud service so they can have everything, you know, operating revenue and they’re getting billed you’re, they’re billing you every month. Um, and it’s. So I think at minimum cloud is twice as expensive as server. [00:56:35] So it’s like a huge jump and everything. Everything in JIRA, everything is a plugin. Everything is an add on, and it’s also written in Java and I don’t like, I don’t really program. I’m trying to learn a Brett, we’re going to have a conversation and Christina about like, what is the language I should learn? [00:56:54] Um, [00:56:55] Brett: We just did that last week. Didn’t we? [00:56:58] Christina: did we did, [00:56:58] Bryan: JavaScript. [00:57:00] Excellent. [00:57:00] Christina: JavaScript. [00:57:01] Bryan: Um, but yeah, like trying to read Java stack traces is like the worst thing in the entire world. It’s so bad, especially when you don’t know what you’re trying to do. Oh my God. It was it’s the worst. [00:57:13] Brett: Can I just, uh, we talked last week about I term. And one of the things I term can do is you can put a red Jax in and it will watch all command line output for that red jacks. And you can have it do different things when it spots it. So you can put in a pattern that will match, like say, uh, if you like, I’ve been working on a Ruby apps lately. [00:57:38] And if, uh, if a Ruby up throws an exception, it’ll list the file, uh, where, and, and the line number like colon line number. So I have, I term just watch four lines that match that it pops them up in a little capture window on the side, and I can just click them to open that file to that line number. It’s so cool. [00:57:58] Christina: Wow. [00:57:59] Bryan: That’s right.[00:58:00] [00:58:00] Brett: Yeah, [00:58:00] Christina: That’s ordeal. [00:58:01] Brett: you just have an eye term podcast. [00:58:04] Christina: I mean, I, I would be down for a terminal podcast, honestly. Like I talk about like the various clients, like I term obviously is like the, you know, uh, goat, but, but a windows terminal is good and then there’s a laxity and like, there are others, you know, so I would be down for like, just having like a podcast about [00:58:21] Brett: You know what my favorite command line thing is right now, it’s kind of command line, uh, like I’m working on a CLI and, uh, I finally, I’ve never been good at writing tests. Uh, I, I, I go too fast and I don’t read enough tasks, but for doing, I have written, I have 87 tests with a hundred something assertions and I can, I’m like refactoring the whole thing right now. [00:58:48] And I can, I can just make all my changes, uh, confirm that the command I was working on works and then just run a test and it goes through and confirms that I didn’t break anything else. And it’s [00:59:00] this sense of security that I rarely have when I write apps, I got a test more. [00:59:06] Bryan: You should you in Casey, Alicia, talk about this Casey list is like the ultimate, you know, evangelists of tests. [00:59:14] Christina: Yeah, he is. Yeah, that would, I would actually, I would, I would listen to the testing show, [00:59:18] Bryan: Oh, absolutely. [00:59:19] Christina: pot that, uh, like, uh, um, [00:59:22] Brett: I have to figure out Youi testing because like, for an app, like marked I can test that. It’s like the processors are working, but the processors are primarily like multi markdown and discount and they’re gonna work. Uh, it’s interface stuff that I always tend to break. And I don’t know how to write a test that I won’t go into it, but I ha I have a lot to learn about testing. I love these moments of silence we have [00:59:51] Christina: I know, I was just trying to think of like, if I have any, I can’t say anything about [00:59:55] Brett: that’s [00:59:55] Bryan: No, me either. I was like [00:59:56] Brett: Yeah, no, it’s okay. We’re we’re at an hour. I feel like, I feel [01:00:00] like we’ve, we’ve done a good show. Oh, Hey. Before we [01:00:03] Christina: have another sponsor. Don’t [01:00:04] Brett: Brian, why don’t you tell us about Texas? [01:00:07] Sponsor: TextExpander [01:00:07] Bryan: Absolutely. I’d love to tell you about text expander. So do you ever type the same thing over and over and over again? Whether it’s customer support, answers, sales, emails, or document edit, typing things repetitively or even repeatedly using copy and paste can be a time consuming, a burden that’s where texts expander comes in with text expander. [01:00:28] You and your team can save typing time by using shorter abbreviations, to fill in a much larger task. Keep your messaging consistent and be accurate. Every time I use text expander all of the time, um, we use service now at work. For some reason, the templating system doesn’t work the way I want it to right now. [01:00:46] So every time I respond to somebody with a support. It’s TextExpander when I send emails for the fraternity about, uh, technology stuff, it’s tax expander. I use text expander all the [01:01:00] time in my life. The way we change we work is changing rapidly. Make work happen with less effort using tactics spender, Overtired listeners. [01:01:08] Get 20% off their first year. Visit text expander.com/podcast. To learn more about X experiment. [01:01:16] Get some sleep [01:01:16] Brett: Thank you. You’re awesome. What a great guest doing, doing ad reads for us? [01:01:21] Christina: I know you’re genuinely like, but you’re a [01:01:24] Brett: You’re on the list to be invited back. You are, you are not, you’re not on the list with the Nancy Kerrigan folks. You are, you are on the new [01:01:34] Christina: not. Yeah. You’re you’re on the good list. You’re you’re not on the list of, of assholes. Christina invited [01:01:40] Bryan: We don’t. We, yeah, we didn’t even get to Azure and math books and Spotify, but like who surprised? [01:01:48] Christina: I know because we had so much other stuff to talk about. This is what we’re going to have to have you back again. [01:01:52] Bryan: Totally down. I absolutely love that. And honestly, I’m learning to like getting up early. I don’t know why, but it’s true. [01:01:58] Brett: So where can people watch [01:02:00] for a, for your new. [01:02:02] Bryan: So you can watch for our new podcast@eitherinstagram.com unsolicited FTB or on Twitter. We’re also at unsolicited FTB. [01:02:12] Brett: Oh, that’s such a long word. [01:02:14] Bryan: I know [01:02:16] Brett: Unsolicited. What’s the initials. [01:02:18] Bryan: F T B as in boy. Yeah. Fatty stock back. [01:02:24] Brett: Gotcha. All right. Awesome. Thank you for being here, Brian, Christina, always a pleasure. Uh, you, you guys get some sleep? [01:02:33] Christina: Get some sleep. [01:02:34] Bryan: Get some sleep.

Brett had a week off of work and has been buried in coding projects, so that’s where the conversation naturally goes. Lots of nerd talk. Plus some hot reviews of 20-year-old TV that you won’t want to miss. Sponsor Upstart is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan –– all online. Visit Upstart.com/Overtired to get your fast approval with up-front rates. Napjitsu offers nootropic supplements that make life better whether you’re asleep or awake. Deeper sleep, or unlock immediate, lasting energy: NAPJITSU products are designed to help you achieve your optimal performance. Go to Napjitsu.com/OVERTIRED for 30% off of your first purchase. Listener Survey Please help us improve the show by taking a minute to fill out a listener survey. If you do, you could win a $50 Amazon gift card, in addition to the feeling of accomplishment you’ll have for actually finishing something today. Because it’s been one of those days, hasn’t it? Show Links fzf doing Jekyll Jekyll and the Genesis of the Jamstack bridgetownrb/bridgetown Jamstack Ghost Hugo iTerm Castle Homicide: Life on the Streets News Radio Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 258 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey there, you’re listening to Overtired and I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren. How are you, Christina? [00:00:11] Christina: I’m good. I’m good. I’m I’m uh, I didn’t get a ton of sleep, but that’s okay. Um, but I’m, I’m not Overtired, we’re recording this at like an actual normal time for me versus the super early time that we’ve been doing it, which I appreciate, I won’t be able to talk about why that is. Um, uh soon-ish but, um, yeah, I’m, I’m, uh, I’m, I’m doing pretty well. [00:00:34] How are you doing. [00:00:35] A brief descent into the Mental Health Corner [00:00:35] Brett: So I, I was super stable for almost two weeks. Like just feeling great, like super normal. And it’s those times when you’re like, oh, this is what everyone feels like all the time. Uh, my relationship was like outstanding, super in love. Just able to like be present. And then what is it? It’s [00:01:00] Friday. It’s Wednesday night. [00:01:03] Uh, I got a little manic, not super manic, but mannequin enough to not sleep. And, uh, then Thursday I felt calm, but you know, I hadn’t slept for 24 hours. So I was super tired last night. I slept great. Like it seems to have passed, but now I’m in that place where you stay up for a whole night, you pull it all nighter and then you sleep the next night. [00:01:30] And then that day, that is the definition of Overtired. That feeling when you can barely barely function. [00:01:40] Christina: Yep. You are correct. So, okay. Um, so, so you’re definitely kind of Overtired now, so I guess, um, and that’s kind of a good update of like, um, uh, Brett’s mental health corner, but you’ve also, you’ve had the week off [00:01:53] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. [00:01:55] Christina: talk about. [00:01:56] Brett: Well first, that means that [00:02:00] a brief manic episode, I get to spend pouring time into my crazy projects instead of working all night on work stuff. So that’s cool. It was nice to have a week off. It’s it’s weird. I kept checking in all week, um, to kind of cause like Aaron, my coworker is out for the month and Victor just started. [00:02:25] So me taking a week off meant I left Victor with two weeks of experience to fend. He’s the only person left on the team. It’s a team of three and two of us are gone. So I, I minimally, but I checked in to try to make sure things were okay. Um, it was still relaxing though. Oh, before we go too far, let me [00:02:51] Christina: I was going to say, I was going to say, I hear dog. [00:02:53] Brett: So we have house cleaners. Uh, we managed to get the house clean enough for my [00:03:00] girlfriend to feel comfortable bringing in house cleaners. Uh, so we have, uh, a couple upstairs using a bunch of natural cleaning products to do a deep clean on our house for two hours, which is excessive in my opinion. But I also don’t care about how clean the house is. [00:03:19] So. As a result of that though, I have to have our small little cattle dog rat terrier mix in my office. So she’s not up there bothering the house cleaners and she is not loving it. So you will hear some huffing, roofing and occasional barks. I have my cough button handy. I’ll try to have, I’ve tried to avoid having to do major edits on this. [00:03:48] And there may just be some barking. And I have both cats in my office cause that’s where they want it to be. So bod is crawling around on piles of cables. My mic could [00:04:00] get disconnected at any time. The dog is pacing and grout in that girling, huffing, and yet he’s sleeping, but that’s, he’s fine. But anyway, this is probably going to go wrong. [00:04:12] There will be some complicated. [00:04:14] Christina: Yeah, there, there are always complications and that’s completely okay. Like, I think that’s fine. I think like, yeah. You know, that happens. So, [00:04:22] Brett: I’m definitely rambly. [00:04:25] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, you’re definitely rambly. You, you seem, um, I don’t know. You don’t see manic, but like, if It’s like a kind of like the tiredness kind of like yeah. [00:04:35] You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Overtired. Cause that’s how I get when I’m Overtired. [00:04:40] I talk a lot and I’m even more than usual and I’m like, yeah. So, um, okay. I’m opening up our document to kind of look at our stuff. Um, so, [00:04:51] Brett: you’ll note in that document under sponsors, I put your name next to one. So you can, uh, you can help out with the reads this week. [00:04:59] Christina: [00:05:00] Wonderful. Thank you. I will, I will earn my keep. Um, okay. So, oh, this is actually good. Cause, cause I’m I’m okay. So, okay. [00:05:07] Fuzzy feelings about command line utilities [00:05:07] Christina: Actually, this is interesting, cause you were hacking around on a bunch of stuff. What is FCF? [00:05:12] Brett: Oh, man. Okay. So FCF is this tool that there’s been a bunch of, like menuing tools over the years, that you can feed like a list of items to, and it gives you, uh, a gooey, uh, like a terminal gooey menu. And FCF is by far the coolest one. You like, if you just do like an LS to list all your files and pipe it to FCF, it gives you a fuzzy matching type ahead, sir. [00:05:47] With arrow key navigation, the Lulu, the option for multiple selections. And when you hit return, it just passes the select, the selection back to [00:06:00] the terminal. So you can pipe other commands through it and then pipe the results to other commands. It’s a perfect inline tool and I’ve been incorporating it into, uh, the majority of the, the command line tools that I have publicly released. [00:06:17] I am now changing all of the crappy read line based menus into FCF menus. And it’s super cool. [00:06:26] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I love it. Um, yeah. And I’m kind of looking at, you’ve got some other nerd stuff too that you’ve been doing, as you mentioned. Um, uh, so [00:06:37] Brett: Doing, I got to tell you about doing that. So I keep doing as this tool I’ve probably talked about before, but it’s a command line tool that I built because I would work for a few hours on a bunch of different things and forget everything that I had done. Then I would leave and I would get back and I would forget what I was working on. [00:06:59] I’m [00:07:00] ADHD. I need memory aids. So doing, lets me type things on my command line, like doing now, uh, getting ready to podcasts for over on, over. And it adds that to a task paper style file I can type just doing and it’ll show me like the last 10 things that I was doing, and it has time tracking and you can mark things as done, uh, canceled and it’s, it’s powerful. [00:07:28] Like it has 50 some sub commands. It’s it’s cool. And, and I put in FCF integration into that, into that too. And I just, every time I get into like coding sprees, I end up finding something I wish doing, could do, and then spending an hour adding it to doing, and it’s just grown over the last five years. [00:07:52] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So has it been. It’s been good. I mean, other than your kind of manic stuff and doing, like, having to [00:08:00] feel like you still had to check in at work, has it been nice to be able to just focus on work stuff or not work stuff on like fun hacking stuff. [00:08:06] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Like I can do this shit for like days on. And, uh, once I get into coding, I find it very relaxing and very rewarding and it really feeds like the dopamine receptor figuring out something new and like making it work is like ADHD reward, center lights up every time. Yeah. I love it. [00:08:30] It’s great. [00:08:31] Titilating talk of static site generators [00:08:31] Christina: See here that you’ve got, I’m just like, kind of looking through your thing. Um, this is actually, this is interesting to me. You have Jekyll on the future of static blog. This is interesting to me because I’ve been actually, I haven’t launched it yet, but I’ve been actually working on a static site, um, uh, Hugo based, um, the last few days, but I’m, I’m curious, but I’ve also been looking at like various headless CMS options, whether like, you know, headless ghost or WordPress or something else. [00:08:58] So I’m curious, um, [00:09:00] your, uh, your thoughts on this. [00:09:02] Brett: Well, okay. So I’m a huge fan of static sites. Um, I don’t know that I will ever intentionally create a CMS based site for myself again ever. Um, I will create WordPress sites for other people because it’s easy for non-tech people to get into and control and, and maintain on their own, but from my own stuff, whether I’m building a documentation site or a blog, or just so. [00:09:32] I always love static site generators and Jekyll is the one I’ve been using for a decade. And I’m most comfortable with it. It’s built in Ruby and, um, super, uh, competent with creating like plugins and hacking it to do what I want it to do. But it’s technically a dead project. [00:09:52] Christina: Yes. Yeah. They’ve even like confirmed that. Like they are not, you know, like even get hub pages. I think isn’t even on [00:10:00] like the latest Jekyll version, [00:10:01] Brett: they’re like a full, like major release behind. [00:10:06] Christina: Exactly. Like, I think you can, you can use to get hub action to manually do it if you want. But, but Yeah. And I there’s, some guy who’s created a fork of Jekyll. [00:10:15] Brett: really? [00:10:16] Christina: Uh, Yeah, Cause he he’s mad that the Jekyll project won’t directly like link to his thing. It’s in my GitHub stars, but I’ve had a bunch of stars in since let me find this, uh, keep, keep talking though about, about what you’d like. [00:10:31] Brett: well, so like we, we ended up using Jekyll for the, uh, publishing system I built for Oracle. Uh, they needed something fast, something that integrated with GitHub and, uh, and Jekyll was something both myself and the kind of get pro on the team were familiar with. So we went with Jekyll and I think Jekyll’s going to have a long life, despite lack of development. [00:10:59] Christina: Oh, [00:11:00] totally. Well, I mean, and the reason that doesn’t have development. [00:11:01] is like they consider it done. Like they don’t really see anything more to do with that. It’s called Bridgetown. Um, it is, is, is this, uh, is this guy’s project? And I don’t know how well it’s going to, uh, take off or, or not. Um, but, uh, [00:11:22] Brett: A modern Ruby website framework. I will be digging into this. Um, yeah, but like, so all of these other static site generators have come up, some have already gone, but, um, Hugo is, is really big. Hugo’s goes in node, right? [00:11:41] Christina: Uh, no it’s in go [00:11:43] Brett: Oh really? I have no idea how to use go. [00:11:46] Christina: Well, that w that doesn’t matter as much. I mean, a lot of it is, [00:11:48] Brett: Well, I want to be able to hack on whatever I use though. [00:11:51] Christina: Okay. Yeah. Well, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll, it’s in go. Um, and, and since hence the, the go name and Hugo. [00:11:57] Brett: Ah, that makes perfect sense. [00:12:00] What ghost was ghost showed up a long time ago? W where is ghost at these days? [00:12:06] Christina: It’s good. So, so ghost is node. Ghost is node. And ironically, so I have a funny ghost story. So I knew John Nolan, one of the co-founders co-creators a little bit from the WordPress kind of community stuff. And he had this idea he’d worked on the WordPress project. And then he was like frustrated with aspects of it. [00:12:28] And he created kind of a mock-up page. And I even wrote, I was like about, I was like, this is a WordPress I would love to use. And he was like, I I want to kind of like what of WordPress was more like medium and, and, and was more modern and it didn’t have a lot of the, you know, legacy stuff that is kind of an encompass. [00:12:45] And so they created a Kickstarter project for a ghost. And this was, I don’t know, want to say 2014. Um, and I, um, got on the phone with him and was, was going to 2013 actually [00:13:00] in September, 2013. So, wow. We’re, we’re eight, um, we’re seven years, eight years. We’re eight years now that, that this happened and, um, it was a, and they call it just a blogging platform because at that point, you know, WordPress had gone on to be bigger and do a lot of other things. [00:13:15] And he was like, no, I just want something that’ll be, you know, modern, but, but, um, also, you know, just beautiful to look at and just for blogging. And so I talked to him on the phone for awhile and I was working on the article, but it took me a little bit of time to get it up. And so he wound up, I guess he was worried that it wasn’t going to go up or not. [00:13:34] And so he like half threatened, half whatnot. He was like, is the article going to go up? It’s going to go up. I’m like, it’s coming, it’s coming. He wound up shipping. Like 30 pounds of marshmallows. And it was, that was funny. And that was, that was kind of enough to, to kinda like kick my ass in gear anyway, that my post was able, I think, I think that they were able to directly attribute from the national post, like $50,000 in funding or something.[00:14:00] [00:14:00] Um, which, which still to this day makes me feel really good because the project is now, you know, they have the hosted service that they, that they sell. Um, but they also have the open source thing. What they’ve pivoted to a little bit, it’s still kind of blogging and websites. And when I’m up, they pivoted to, which is smart is that they added a newsletter feature a couple years ago. [00:14:21] And at this point they really. It is kind of a self hosted sub stack if you were to self hosted or if you were to use ghost pro. So that is kind of the way that they’ve kind of pivoted a little bit now is that they see themselves as like, okay, you can have a newsletter platform, but also have a blog associated with it, which I think is actually, um, smart. [00:14:44] Brett: I actually advised on ghosts when they were first launching back in the days of that Kickstarter. Um, they contacted me as a, uh, uh, a markdown person. They wanted, they, they asked for [00:15:00] w. I would want to see in a markdown blogging platform. And, uh, I don’t remember what I told them. I remember they incorporated at least one of my suggestions. [00:15:12] Um, but it’s been so long that I don’t, I don’t, but it was an honor just to be nominated, you know? [00:15:18] Christina: No. Totally, totally. And, um, no, I mean, I think that, um, that, and, and they still, they, they run as kind of like a, you know, like they’re, they’re pretty lean. I’m not sure how many full-time people they have, they’re fully remote. Um, it’s still all OSS, you know, you can self host it yourself or put it on a digital ocean droplet, which is usually the easiest way to do it. [00:15:40] And, um, uh, you know, I’m, I’m proud of them. You know, I still see people who have a lot of stuff with it. I mean, I think the jam stack is basically kind of sucked a lot of the air out of the room, but for people who were wanting to do. This sort of stuff that they do, um, especially, you know, it comes to like, if you’re wanting to set up your own, [00:16:00] you know, paid newsletter platform and you didn’t want to use sub stack or Twitter’s review or something else, it’s definitely one of the only, it’s one of the easiest things out there that has any sort of, you know, open source component to it. [00:16:13] So, which is really cool. [00:16:16] Brett: totally. Um, this, this is this whole section should, yeah, we should just do a static blogging show. There’s so many cool platforms out there. I I’m looking through the plugins for this bridge, Bridgetown, Brit, what was it? Bridger 10, no Bridgetown [00:16:35] Christina: like [00:16:35] Brett: or champ. Um, there, there’s an insane amount of really like plugins I want to use. [00:16:42] And if they’re not backwards compatible with Jekyll, I might consider switching because I think I could make my current plugins forward compatible. This is [00:16:52] Christina: Yeah. [00:16:53] Brett: I that, and I wonder if I could make it work with GitHub pages. Um, I wonder if anyone has [00:17:00] created a GitHub action. To publish that because that’s why we’re using GitHub actions with Oracle, because with the GitHub, oh, you already said this, but with the GitHub action, you can use whatever version of Jekyll you want. [00:17:13] Um, you know, it’s running in a container and you can set up the environment with custom plugins, which is really the, like the big deal for me. Cause I want to be able to, they have, you know, it’s a, you’re working for a corporation. They’re going to have weird off the wall requests. Uh, and you’re going to have to be able to do customization if anything, like an open source project project is going to work. [00:17:41] So that’s a requirement I’m so rambly, I’m sorry. [00:17:45] Christina: No, that’s completely okay. That’s completely okay. Yeah, no Bridgetown seems really cool. I mean, this is how they kind of describe it. What PACA, where Ruby powers, static site generator for the modern JAMstack era, which I mean, I think is, is a good thing of doing, because Jekyll look and it’s [00:18:00] fair, right? [00:18:00] Like they it’s reached kind of the place where it works. And, and I think that it has a long life in front of it. And I don’t know if it, if it’s necessarily one of those things that people need more out of it. Um, but this guy, I guess he built a bunch of sites, you know, using Jekyll and really liked it and wanted to make his own improvements. [00:18:19] And so he was, um, he was doing that, um, you know, if you go to jamstack.com and you go to generators, like there’s so many generators, like you said, it’s crazy. And jamstack.com. I believe that’s a net. It is, it is owned by Netlify. Um, Netlify obviously has just, you know, like blown up by my, uh, my good friend, Sarah used to be there, um, um, VP of engineering, but, um, she’s at Google now, but, um, you know, like it’s been fascinating watching them over the last three years or so, just blow up because it’s a really good product. [00:18:52] Um, but B you know, just like the, the static site thing has just taken over to the point that like, if I were [00:19:00] WordPress, I mean, WordPress, it’s going to be okay, don’t get me wrong. And, but, you know, and they, they power so much of their web. Like, they’re, they’re fine, but I, if I were them, like, they actually just acquired automatic anyway, just acquired, um, some, uh, Company that made like a front end, I guess they were like, it was a react based thing, basically doing like, like headless WordPress, but, you know, with, with react front ends and they, and they just said they had their own framework, I guess, or what frontier city or something like that anyway, automatic acquired it. [00:19:30] So it’s now part of like the, the wordpress.com family. Although to my knowledge, they are not going to be working on that anymore. They’re going to be doing other things at automatic. But if I were people who worked at like, you know, automatic and, or were other people who were hardcore involved in like making my living as an agency off of WordPress, I would probably be looking very strongly into the static space and either figuring out like, is there a headless solution that I can come up with? [00:19:58] Do I want to look at other [00:20:00] things because. While for end-users the entry, you know, the ease of use and whatnot of a CMS can be good for developers for both bandwidth costs. And for other things, you know, like it’s so much better to have a static site, if you can, and to be able to publish, especially like having like a, you know, a get, you know, uh, you know, workflow is not as fast as, as you were commenting earlier, you had to fix something on your blog and it’s, it’s not as fast depending on, on what your setup is, but it’s also, once you get things done, I think from most people’s sites, if you’re not publishing stuff, literally all the time, you know, where you’re having to do tons of dynamic content, like all the time. [00:20:43] I don’t know if you need it, [00:20:44] Brett: Even, even with a database based site, uh, once you get into a good caching and I mean, even a good word press site is still delivering static content. [00:20:57] Christina: Oh, no, you’re right. You’re right. [00:20:59] Brett: and, [00:21:00] and it still takes nothing’s instant. Like you still have to clear out caches and, and, and use cash bussers. And it’s just more so with a static site, like if I want to make a correction on my Jekyll blog and my Jekyll blog was built in like 2010. [00:21:18] And I have kind of patched the code forward, but it’s still is it does it can’t take full advantage of like Jekyll’s, um, uh, incremental rendering and, uh, live reloading stuff. So developing on that site is a bit slower of a process. And then I use all of these plugins that, uh, when I build for deployment, it, it injects, uh, like CDN URLs with cache busters so that the new build won’t load old assets. [00:21:52] And so everything takes a couple extra minutes. And, uh, if I want to make a spelling correction on a blog [00:22:00] post, all told if I, if I do a hold on, I have to yell. I yelled at a dog, but I was on mute. So you didn’t have to hear it. Um, if I want to make a spelling, correction and I’m going through, and I’m good at tests it before I upload it, which is always a good idea. [00:22:17] Um, I’m looking at 10 minutes just to change one letter on a blog post. So that’s not the case with WordPress, like with WordPress, I dunno. It takes me like five minutes to load up the goddamn interface. It’s so slow. [00:22:33] Christina: No, that’s the thing. I mean, actually it’s funny. Cause at one time mashville was the largest WordPress install, uh, for a long time we were and, and our mic. [00:22:42] Brett: they tried to hire, do you remember that? They wanted to hire me to build a Ruby API on top of WordPress, but I gave them too high, a price and they stopped talking to me. [00:22:52] Christina: Which is a shame cause you would’ve liked that team. Um, and, and Robin was a good guy. He’s at CNN now. I don’t I don’t even know he was on, he [00:23:00] Robin’s very well off, but, um, uh, he’s worked at a lot, a lot of places, but, uh, yeah, cause I remember. you talking to, because you talked to Robin, right. [00:23:08] Brett: I, [00:23:08] don’t remember. [00:23:09] Christina: Robin Peterson, but anyway, um, but he a great guy. [00:23:14] Uh, he was our CTO. Um, and uh, we got him from Conde Nast I think. And um, he, um, uh, really nice guy, but he, um, he he’s, uh, he’s now the chief technology officer and SVP at, uh, CNN, um, [00:23:30] Brett: so anyway, Mashable has the biggest [00:23:33] Christina: We had the biggest and we had the biggest WordPress install, uh, at like our, our, my SQL database was across three servers. Like it was massive. Like it was ridiculous. And because it was so big and because of the caching and the other issues, they did do a headless thing basically years, a decade close to before that really became like the very defacto concept. [00:23:57] So the idea would be, we still use very old, [00:24:00] kind of locked down version of WordPress as the CMS for many years. And then they eventually built their own CMS, which is always a mistake, but whatever. [00:24:07] Brett: It never goes well. [00:24:08] Christina: It never goes believable. They’d hope to commercialize it and we weren’t going to. Um, but, but then it would, you know, use, uh, either Ruby or Python. [00:24:16] I’m not, I don’t remember which one now, um, to, you know, um, uh, publish in on the front end. And, um, but we did have that issue where, you know, if you wanted, you could make an update to the post, but because of caching and other stuff, it could take some time to show back up on the site. So we’d have to, like, you’d have to manually, there were, there were characters you could enter into like force or refresh of the, of the page and whatnot. [00:24:40] And then the F the homepage. It was interesting because it was dynamically, there, there was three columns and one of the columns was like chronological. One of the columns was, I guess, like specifically chosen, you know, to be what was featured. And then the middle column was dynamically determined based on, um, like whether they were calling like hot [00:25:00] or rising. [00:25:00] And that was based on signals. Like how often is this being shared? How often this it’s being read. So like how many Twitter or Facebook shares, how many people are reading it at one time? Like, what’s the trajectory where people are thinking, oh, this is going to be a hot story. And then it’ll be promoted to the hot column, which, um, at the time when it launched and you know, again, this was close to a decade ago, was. [00:25:23] You know, hot shit. Like that was, that was a cool thing. And that was one of those things where they couldn’t do that with just normal WordPress. Right. [00:25:30] Like to be able to take in those signals. And, um, remember, uh, I had like a, kind of a, it was a good talk conversation, but I had, it was slightly contentious. [00:25:40] He’s very nice guy, but I had like a, uh, kind of a, debate in person with Matt Mullenweg about that. He was like, oh no, they could have done this and this and this. And I was kind of talking to him about it. I was like, yeah, it would have required significantly more engineering efforts and overhead to try to replicate that experience versus just building something against their own API [00:26:00] APIs. [00:26:00] And then just using this, you know, the term we know uses headless and he had to begrudgingly agree that that WordPress and in 2012 was not capable of doing that. But anyway, that’s me right. [00:26:11] Brett: there’s a Jason API plugin for WordPress that I used it for a lot of, uh, hacking that actually makes WordPress usable. Um, I can’t even remember what I did with it. I wrote a lot of plugins for WordPress, but I’m so tired of PHP. [00:26:30] Christina: Yeah. Although at this point, most of WordPress, a lot of the direction is, is JavaScript, which is freaking out a lot of that community, from what I understand, because you have like the older stalwarts who were still at PHP people and, and, and, um, you know, and aren’t ready to go into the JavaScript world, which is clearly where the future of it is kind of going to be. [00:26:52] Um, but they released the rest API. I don’t even remember how long ago and people still don’t really use that except for some of the higher end, you [00:27:00] know, like agency places and whatnot. But [00:27:02] So you want to learn a language? [00:27:02] Brett: I think I used to, if people asked me they wanted to get into coding and they wanted to know what language to learn, I used to just tell everyone Python, because. Eh, just like, I’m not good at Python, but when I talk to people who, who got into coding and got good at it, most of them started with Python. So I have just assumed with the number of libraries available in everything that, that Python was a good place to start, but honestly, JavaScript, like if you learn JavaScript and cause you can go server side or front end with it now, and you can do JavaScript for automation and it’s a very versatile and very powerful and potentially messy language. [00:27:49] But it seems like, I don’t know. I think that’s where I’m going to start telling people, if you want to learn something, start with Java script. Plus it’s super easy to, to learn in a [00:28:00] browser. [00:28:01] Christina: Yeah, we, you can see your results very easily. I mean, and, and it’s, it’s not that it it’s, it, there’s still a lot to it and, and there’s still, you know, like picking like, again, if you’re wanting to do server side or, or, or, you know, like browser side, like there’s, you know, various things that you have to think about, but yeah. [00:28:17] Um, Python was my go-to for a long time as well. And depending on what people are doing, I still think it’s a good language to learn because it makes a lot of sense and it doesn’t have as many like [00:28:29] Brett: Anything that that’s that anal about? Indentation is always gonna throw me. I, I don’t, I’m I’m opinionated about indentation and I, I don’t always agree with other people’s indentation. [00:28:42] Christina: No. I agree. I’m just more thinking like JavaScript can be this sort of thing, like depending on what you’re doing with it, like, if you, you know, are you going to be into node? Are you going to be, you know, like, like what, what, what’s your focus area? Like, what’s, what’s kind of your, your, your toolkit that becomes a very, becomes kind of its own thing. [00:28:59] [00:29:00] But I do agree with you, I think that for a lot of people, like, [00:29:02] Brett: you’ve got to learn vanilla first [00:29:05] Christina: I agree with that, but the problem is, is a lot of people, especially when they’re looking for tutorials and stuff, they [00:29:11] Brett: jump right into react, and don’t actually learn how JavaScript works. [00:29:15] Christina: precisely. And, and so, um, I feel like at least in terms of some of the. Educational content that’s out there. [00:29:23] I feel like that’s the one regard where I feel like maybe at least right now, Python still has a slight step up. But I do agree with you that if I were like, and ironically, it’s funny you say this, cause I’m going to be doing a live thing on Tuesday next week, talking about how people should like learn to code and where they should start. [00:29:44] And more than likely what I’m going to be saying is exactly what we’re saying, which is like JavaScript. Like if I were to advise like a teenager right now, like somebody who’s interested in stuff, I would be like, get into JavaScript because it’s going to be the, [00:30:00] as you said, the easiest to see in a browser kind of what it does, you know, and, and like that’s an important [00:30:06] Brett: and there’s zero chance it’s going away. Like it runs so much of the web and so much of the computing world in general. It’s it’s there, it has a guaranteed. Well, you learn JavaScript now 50 years from now, your skills will still be of some use. Well, if we still, I don’t know. How can you use JavaScript script on quantum computers? [00:30:32] Christina: probably. I mean, somebody will probably, I mean, at this point we don’t know. I mean, at this point, like the, they will probably come up with some sort of JavaScript variant for, you know, as an interaction thing. I mean, like, I don’t know. Um, I mean, Python is not a bad thing to go with either. Like I would certainly, but I would suggest that over, you know, like, like Java, right? [00:30:52] Like Java is still very in very high use in, in the enterprise and other things, but like, you know, that’s What they still teach in a [00:31:00] lot of computer science programs and [00:31:02] Brett: was the static blog that was Python based? Whether had you sit around at Pelican? Yeah. Are there, I, you just don’t see a lot of Python in that, in that arena. [00:31:15] Christina: No, no. I mean, it’s, I mean, you see a lot of JavaScript, um, Hugo is goal-based, but it also has a lot of JavaScript in it. [00:31:22] Brett: Yeah, you can write plugins for Hugo and JavaScript. Kenya. [00:31:24] Christina: exactly, exactly. So, which is, which is kind of its thing, you know, I’m obviously Jekyll is Ruby. Um, Yeah. [00:31:32] I mean, I feel like, well, cause I feel like the big thing with, with Python. I mean, there was Pelican, but I feel like the big thing there was Django, right? [00:31:39] Brett: Yeah. Right. I forgot about GENCO. Um, yeah, we have to do an ad read. [00:31:45] Christina: Yes. Let’s Do [00:31:46] Brett: you want to do yours or should I do mine? [00:31:49] Christina: I will do mine? [00:31:51] Brett: Um, [00:31:51] Sponsor: Upstart [00:31:51] Christina: are right. So if you dread looking at your credit card statements, you are not alone. [00:32:00] Debt can feel crippling. So upstart is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan all online. So whether it’s paying off credit cards, consolidating high interest debt, or funding, personal expenses, over half a million people have used upstart to get a simple fixed monthly payment. [00:32:20] Now I know Brett is a happy customer. [00:32:22] Brett: That is, that is true. I, I paid off a huge credit card debt this year with an upstart loan and steadily paying down on fixed monthly payments now and great credit score again, like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it’s definitely thanks to upstart. [00:32:41] Christina: That’s Awesome. So with a five minute online rate check, you can see your rate upfront for loans between 1000 and $50,000, and you can have your money in a day or two, find out how upstart can lower your monthly payments. Today. When you go to upstart.com/ Overtired, [00:33:00] that’s upstart.com/ Overtired. Don’t forget to use our URL to let them know that we sent you. [00:33:06] Loan amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other information provided in your own application. Good upstart.com/ Overtired. [00:33:15] Brett: Awesome. I’m looking forward to doing my read too. I’m actually, I’m excited about both of our sponsors today. [00:33:21] Christina: Yeah. I feel like they, they, they fit us well, so thank you, upstart. Um, all right, so maybe enough, like CMS [00:33:28] Brett: Yeah. I feel like we’ve worn that out. [00:33:30] Christina: I feel like we have, um, so I think we talked about I term a little bit last week. I did see this. We could talk about that if you want to. Um, but I also see, like, this has been on here for awhile. [00:33:43] Brett can’t really justify a new Synology and should just save his money [00:33:43] Christina: You want a new Synology but you don’t know if you can justify it. [00:33:47] Brett: So like, I have a lot of fun with my Synology and I [00:33:50] Christina: Yeah. I love my [00:33:51] Brett: slowly, I had a couple terabytes to it here and there, but I’ve got plenty of space and I use it for a lot of, you know, NAS stuff, [00:34:00] but I also love running all of the various applications and web server stuff it can do. [00:34:07] Christina: It’s your home. [00:34:08] Brett: Yeah. But I ran into this limitation of mine where it can’t run Docker. [00:34:16] Christina: Really? [00:34:17] Brett: yeah, and to, to be able to run Docker, I would have to upgrade to, like, I think it’s the nine 20 plus. And I really, I, I want to, I don’t even know offhand what I would do if I had Docker on my Synology and the stupid thing is I have, uh, an older Mac mini that is running Docker and is connected to the network. [00:34:40] And I really should just be happy with that until I actually have something I want to do with Docker that I can’t do on the mini, but it’s still one of those things where you’re like, there’s a slight justification for this new piece of hardware. Maybe I, maybe I should do it. [00:34:56] Christina: Yeah. I mean, how long has it. [00:34:59] been since you [00:35:00] got your Synology? [00:35:01] Brett: Um, three years, I think. [00:35:03] Christina: Okay. So I feel like. I feel like, you know, you’re you, you’ve got the job now. Things are more stable. I mean, I say treat yourself. [00:35:15] Brett: Yeah. I’m of two minds one. Yes. It would be a fun decadent expense that I can’t fully justify, but I could, I could have, I could find a different way to spend that money. That would be just as decadent and maybe, you know, there are new Mac books come in. [00:35:35] Christina: Yeah. But you just, but you said you’re happy with your Mac mini [00:35:38] Brett: am. I’m happy with my Mac mini and I still have this 2019 MacBook pro that’s in great shape. I, I don’t, I don’t need a new computer either. I can’t justify any of these things. I should, I can justify saving money though. I have, I have a savings account. I can, I could cover a major [00:36:00] home expense or a LA a huge vacation. [00:36:04] Like I, I have money. I padding for the first time in how long, when did I last work for AOL? That was like 2012. Maybe. Yeah. It’s been a long time since I had a savings account. So part of like, I like to spend money. I like to buy new toys, but I also like having padding, like that’s also with thrill. [00:36:28] Christina: This is true. This is true. So, all right. I will say this, the, the nine 20 with, um, four gigs of Ram is $550 without drives. [00:36:44] Brett: and I already have all the drives. [00:36:46] Christina: right. The 1520 with eight gigs of Ram is, um, [00:36:52] Brett: Oh. But I want the two SSDs to. [00:36:54] Christina: okay. Um, is, is a. And it’s five A’s is, um, [00:37:00] six is 700, so it’s 150 more. Um, but you could just upgrade the Ram yourself. There’s also a seven 20 plus I’m looking at this. That’s actually smaller. Um, so I don’t know. I feel like, I guess you could think about [00:37:18] Brett: I want the nine 20 plus with the two SSD cache drives and the eight gigabytes of Ram. That is the other, that is my Synology is pretty slow. This like 5, 5, 20, whatever, five nine. I don’t know which one I have a it’s a 19, but anyway, it is, it gets a little groggy sometimes. And I use it as my get, uh, for all of my private repos. [00:37:45] I just keep them on my Synology and put doing a get push from my Mac mini to my Synology on the same network. Can there’s like a five second lag before anything connects [00:38:00] and that’s a little annoying and I feel like it’s, it has to do with the speed of this analogy. [00:38:06] Christina: Yeah. That’s probably a part of it. Yeah. [00:38:09] Brett: would fix it. [00:38:10] Christina: Yeah. The, the caching would help a lot. Yeah. I have, um, I have like one of the, the 18 series, like the, but it’s old, it’s like old, old, old. And so [00:38:19] Brett: It’s from 18. That’s what the numbers on them, [00:38:21] Christina: No, no, no, no. Then at the top it’s like a DSS 18. [00:38:24] Brett: Oh, no. Okay. [00:38:26] Christina: Right. So, so it, but it’s an eight bay, but that that’s like their highest. [00:38:31] And like, I guess like consumer, you know, thing or whatever, or one of their highest end ones and it’s great. Or it was great. But at this point we literally just use it as like network storage. Then we have servers that are older, that we use for other stuff, because you know, like it’s, it’s, it’s as old as it is, but we still love it. [00:38:49] But So I’ve been, I’ve been kind of going through a similar thing that you have where I’ve been like, trying to like figure out like, okay, what, um, like what Synology [00:39:00] do I want to get and how much am I going to spend on it? [00:39:03] Brett: here’s one thing that I’ve come to realize is with a five bay NAZ, you can put in like 10, 10 terabyte drives. But if one of those drives fails, you have to buy a whole nother 10 terabyte drive in they’re not cheap. And, uh, and, and plus it takes forever to rebuild when it’s one fifth of your storage, uh, it takes forever to rebuild the raid. [00:39:29] So I see buying, uh, like a nine bay, uh, NAZ makes a lot of sense because you could have smaller, more affordable drives that are easier to replace and take less time to rebuild. [00:39:48] Christina: Right. Well, that was kind of what we did. Like when I got mine and a disclosure Synology sent me my. Eight years ago or whenever it was, and it came with drives in it, and most of those drives have died, [00:40:00] but it was one of those things where they didn’t all die at once and we were able to replace them. But we’ve done that where we buy, like when we can get good deals on drives, we’ll find the drives and we’ll replace them. [00:40:10] But yeah, you’re right. When you have eight bays, what’s nice about that is like you said, you know, you, you don’t have to like max everything out with, uh, you know, like, you know, like eight or 10 terabyte [00:40:21] Brett: terabyte drives and you be good. [00:40:23] Christina: Exactly. And so, so that’s one of the things that we do. So in that way, when one dies, which they do from time to time, you know, you can like find a replacement [00:40:33] Brett: let’s be clear. They will die. [00:40:36] Christina: yes, [00:40:36] Brett: these are drives in an always on machine. And the, I would say you have a guaranteed life of a year. You can get three years out of a drive, but you should absolutely plan to replace your drives. Uh, within five years of EV every drives life. And when you PI these 10 terabyte drives by them, knowing [00:41:00] you’re going to be buying another one and another one, it like, it’s scary to get those huge capacity drives. [00:41:08] Christina: Yeah, totally. Um, so, um, yeah. Um, but yeah, that, that’s the thing is that it does make it easier when you have more phase to like, you know, like, I guess, price out what you’re going to do. And then hopefully over time, what happens. I mean, this is what happened With us is that like drive prices went down, you know? [00:41:26] So, uh, that hasn’t, that’s not going to be the case as much probably for the next year or so because of the ship shortage and everything that’s happening with that. But in general, you know, drive prices go down, meaning that, you know, if you, even, if you start out with like four terabyte things, like, hopefully by the time that was die, you could replace, you know, two of [00:41:45] Brett: the same price. Yeah, [00:41:47] Christina: exactly. [00:41:47] Brett: that’s what I’ve been doing slowly, slowly replacing my four terabyte drives with six terabyte drives and they are the same price that I paid for the four terabyte drives. [00:41:57] Christina: Yeah. [00:41:57] Brett: I’m going to do a sponsor read. And then I [00:42:00] want to tell you about our upcoming gov. [00:42:01] Christina: Yeah. [00:42:03] Sponsor: Napjitsu [00:42:03] Brett: Hey, Overtired listener. 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[00:44:02] Whether you need to experience deeper sleep or unlock immediate lasting energy, each nap juts you product is designed to help you achieve your optimal performance. Remember the smart rest more the wise rest, better. Rest up and level up with nap Jitsu. Good. A nap, jitsu.com/ Overtired for 30% off your first purchase today. [00:44:25] That’s N a P J I T S u.com/ Overtired. Thanks to NAB Jitsu. Um, um, I’m an excited user. Um, I’m, I’m looking forward to my future with these, uh, nootropic supplements. [00:44:41] A peek at the exciting future of Overtired [00:44:41] Brett: Yeah. Um, so we have, we have a guest coming next week that, that you and I have talked about having on for awhile. Um, they actually it’ll be our first nonbinary guest. [00:44:55] Um, they, the a while back, you, you and I had a [00:45:00] little, uh, Tete, a Tete regarding self-diagnosis and, and, uh, and especially ASD related stuff. And, uh, Brian Guffey, he took issue with that and, uh, made some very salient points on Twitter. You guys have talked [00:45:18] Christina: Yeah, they made some really good points and, um, and, and kind of agreed to disagree on some things, but I really appreciated their perspective. So, and I’m always, I’m always happy for someone who I like, and I, I will put this out to any of our other listeners. I’m happy for people to disagree with me and, I’m happy to like, hear that doesn’t mean I’m going to change my mind, but like, I’m like remarkably happy to have like a conversation. [00:45:38] I know I come across as like very opinionated and very like stuck in things, but that’s actually not true. Like, I very much enjoy a back and forth and our discussion because I, my, my opinions can change and my understanding can change, you know, [00:45:51] Brett: This definitely won’t be confrontational. Uh, they’re they’re really looking forward to it. And in, in the discord, [00:46:00] Brian said this to me and I begged him them to, I pegged them to make it an iTunes review because it was so good. Uh, they said, this is the iTunes version. I look forward to Overtired every week because listening to Brett and Christina makes my ADHD brain feel it’s at peace because the podcast sounds like my brain. [00:46:22] It is absolutely the most comfortable. I feel each week. [00:46:26] Christina: Oh, that’s so nice. That’s like the nicest thing. [00:46:30] Brett: someone’s comfy place. That’s awesome. [00:46:32] Christina: Uh, plus they are someone who we can like relate to in a lot of things. Uh, they and I are going to really, really nerd out over, over a acapella. So be prepared, Brett. I’m just, I’m just, I’m just warning you now. Um, but yeah, this I’m very excited about that. [00:46:50] Brett: I also am begging my friend, uh, uh, Jeff Severns gun soul, who has been on Systematic a couple of times. And I’ve been working [00:47:00] really closely with him on some freelance stuff over the last year or two. And, uh, he is, he’s a lot like me. The last couple of guests we’ve had on have been more like you than [00:47:12] Christina: I agree. I agree. So I want to get somebody more like you that’s that’s fair. I’m excited about this. I’m excited to have like two Brett’s gang up on Christina. This is going to be [00:47:21] Brett: It will be a change of pace, but Jeff is, he’s so fun. Uh, like he, he said it sounded awesome, but he couldn’t take the one I wanted to schedule him on. So we’ll see, uh, how scheduling goes. But definitely [00:47:37] Christina: we’ll we’ll we’ll make it work. We’ll make it [00:47:39] Brett: I think it would be great. I think I could see him being a regular guest actually. Um, he’s also ADHD. [00:47:47] I feel like we’re going to have a lot of good mental health episodes coming up. [00:47:51] Christina: I agree. I agree. Um, [00:47:54] Let’s talk about really old TV and how it makes us feel comfortable in an uncertain world [00:47:54] Brett: Speaking of comfy places though, you know, you know, so Chuck for a long time, until I [00:48:00] finished it, uh, was, was my comfort show. And I hadn’t found a real replacement for it yet. I’m actually going through a modern family again right now, which [00:48:11] Christina: I like modern [00:48:11] Brett: it’s an outstanding show. Some of the best writing on [00:48:14] Christina: It really is. And, and you know what good for fucking ed O’Neill for making, just like, fuck tons of money between like, um, married with children and modern family, like good for him, right? Like, [00:48:28] Brett: what is married with children have to do with modern family other [00:48:31] Christina: well, we’ll add O’Neil as it’s just a mint, like, like the actor [00:48:35] Brett: I didn’t know. That was his name. Okay. That now I put it together. Okay. Yeah. I thought there was like a third. It was the same producer or [00:48:41] Christina: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Um, but, uh, yeah, [00:48:46] Brett: that would be a stretch. But anyway, the show that I found that replaced Chuck that has like the same feel for me is castle. [00:48:55] Christina: okay. I can see that. I can see that, [00:48:57] Brett: Like, um, and we were just, we were watching [00:49:00] Firefly before it started. And so there’s these little Fireflight Easter eggs in castle. Uh, Nathan Fillion like shows up for a Halloween costume with, uh, as a space cowboy with his red duster on and it’s, it’s, it’s fun. And it’s the perfect role for Nate, Nate, Nathan Fillion, [00:49:19] Christina: Oh, it really [00:49:20] Brett: I haven’t seen him that like it’s, it’s it’s him. [00:49:24] It’s his role. That’s what he will always be now. [00:49:27] Christina: No. I agree with you on that. And like, that was a really good bowl for him and it ran a long time. Um, I just, I just Googled it. It was 173 episodes, so that’s good. Cause you have a lot of episodes to go through, which is good for comfort show. So I, and I don’t know how far I’m going to get into this because I’d never liked it that much when it aired originally, but I’m revisiting it 21 years later and I, I kind of have a slightly different experience, So okay. [00:49:54] I’ve always been, you know, like TV shows, like at least this used to be the [00:50:00] case where like, you know, you kind of have like a brand, like this is the network I watch for these types of shows. I was always an NBC person, you know, I liked the NBC drama. Um, sometimes I liked some of the stuff, you know, with these drama wise on, on ABC. [00:50:12] I loved the WB because I am always going to be a teen. Um, but, um, you know, and Fox had some comedies that I enjoyed CBS had a few things, but it was never, I’ve never been like a huge CBS person, at least in my lifetime now, like historically like in the seventies and stuff, like in the sixties, like CBS was the shit, but like I’ve never really been a huge CBS television person, but the other day I started rewatching CSI. [00:50:41] And like from the beginning and kind of like, you kind of have like, just something on, on the background. I I’m not hating it. It’s funny to see like how much the tech has changed and, you know, [00:50:55] Brett: walk, walk me back is the first one was Las Vegas. Right. [00:51:00] And it had that super hot light-skinned black guy. [00:51:04] Christina: Yeah. [00:51:04] Brett: Yeah. Okay. And the, and the former dancer. [00:51:08] Christina: Yes, mark. Mark Helgenberger. Yeah. And, uh, um, [00:51:12] Brett: one. [00:51:13] Christina: yeah, totally. And that’s the one I’m watching and, and, and then the, the, the girl from ER, and, uh, the west wing Georgia Fox and the hot guy from Savannah, which was a soap that, uh, an Aaron spelling soap that aired on the WB in 1996. Um, I would know That and it’s it’s yeah. [00:51:31] Uh, he, he played a guy who was murdered and his twin brother. And I remember this, I didn’t even have to Google this. I just, I remember this cause that’s my broken brain. Nope. So I’m like half I’m like almost done with the first season now. And I don’t know how far I’m going to get into it, but it’s one. [00:51:47] of those things that, cause when it. I was in high school. And, um, I think it originally then did go on, on, on Thursday nights. I don’t think it ever went up against ER, cause that would have been dumb on [00:52:00] CBS as part, but, um, You know, like I, I just didn’t watch, I just didn’t watch it, you know like I was aware of it, but I just didn’t really watch it. [00:52:08] Um, like I, if I was going to do a crime show thing, I would do a law and order if I was going to do more medical thing, I was going to do, uh, an ER and then, um, NBC did their own kind of variation on CSI called crossing Jordan, which I actually really liked. Um, and, but I did watch it and syndication some And then I remembered, uh, the Miami one was the one with Caruso, uh, his, uh, his return to television after. [00:52:32] Brett: who. [00:52:33] Christina: Yeah, well, yeah, well they, they always use the who. [00:52:35] in their theme songs. Um, but David Crusoe was in, uh, Horatio he’s in Miami along with, um, the, uh, the hot Republican chick from, um, um, Western. [00:52:48] Brett: I never saw westbound. I can’t, I, I can’t help. [00:52:53] Christina: okay. You would like the west wing. Okay. Ansley from the west wing. Um, uh, Emily Procter as her name. She has a really great voice. That’s why [00:53:00] things stands out, but like, that’s really all. I remember. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her together once, but now I’m like rewatching and CSI and it’s funny. Cause I’m kinda like, yeah, this isn’t, I, I I’m understanding like why it was like a really big hit I’m very bothered constantly by the complete and utter like, lack of even pretending to care about like civil liberties or like rights or anything like that with, with the accused. [00:53:25] Like it is. It is like appalling to watch it from that perspective. But, um, it’s interesting cause they shot it in on 35 millimeter. So it looks like it could be shot now. Right? Like it’s real. And it was an expensive show. So like, it looks really well done. But then the thing that will, other than that, the clothing and the other stuff, the thing that ages, it is like the tech that they’re using, which, you know, like the, the, the computers that, that you see and like the pagers like that, and that’s, that’s kind of a mind trip to do, but, uh, anyway, that’s [00:54:00] so you are, you’re watching castle, I’m watching CSI and I don’t know how far I’m going to get into it, but, um, yeah, I, I, what happened? [00:54:10] I kind of burned out on normal, like true. ’cause at this point, like, I feel like I know all the cases. Um, great. And I were talking about this, how, like, it’s a problem if you’re watching cold case and you realize, you know, the case they’re talking about, but you haven’t seen that episode of cold case before you’ve seen another crime show, that’s talked about the same case and you’re like, oh yeah, I know this case. [00:54:31] And so I’m like, all right, maybe it’s time for fictional, you know, murders instead. [00:54:36] Brett: Fictional, uh, self-contained episodes or a problem is solved in one week. [00:54:42] Christina: Yeah. [00:54:43] Brett: Yeah. I don’t think they ever did story arcs on CSI, but I don’t [00:54:47] Christina: Well, they kind of did, but it wasn’t like, like they had, they had some like, uh, but it was, you know, some of the interpersonal things would carry on, but it wasn’t like, it was a strongly interpersonal show. Like you, you, it was designed [00:55:00] so you could come in and come out. But like two of the characters, like Grissom and, and, uh, Sarah, uh, like we’re in a relationship. [00:55:08] I remember, I remember. [00:55:09] the internet, like going crazy when, cause they’d only hinted at it. And then they’d like ended one of the episodes, like six seasons in and they’re like in bed together. And it’s like, oh Yeah. [00:55:17] they’ve been together for a while. Now we just didn’t say anything about it. And it’s just been happening off screen and like the audience lost their minds. [00:55:23] Um, which is funny because Yeah. I mean that, that’s an approach. And apparently now the, the reason I got into this and I haven’t watched the new one is apparently they have not even apparently this is fact they’ve rebooted it and announced CSI Vegas. And they brought back William Peterson and Georgia Fox, uh, who were the. [00:55:43] Pair that was in a relationship and as well as some, um, some new people to do like a 10 episode reboot with the potential for more episodes. So Bruckheimer can, can make even more money. [00:55:57] Brett: I’ll be cure. Keep me posted as you go through [00:56:00] CSI. This there’s this thing that was like super common with nineties shows or early two thousands for that matter where for the first season and most of the second season, they would very much be single episode doses. Like there’s a problem set up in the cold open, and it’s solved with a tight, tell you a little boat by the end of the half hour or one hour, depending on the show. [00:56:28] And they, they have the formula. You come to love the formula, you know, what to expect, and it feels comfortable. And then they start doing multi-episode plots. And then by season five, there’s a story arc that takes the whole season. Like they set something up in episode one and you keep tuning back. To follow the same story and it’s a different kind of serial storytelling. [00:56:55] And it seems to be the pattern like I’m, I’m, [00:57:00] I’m going through old shows now. And these are things I never noticed before, but it seems to happen to just about every show from that era, which like shows now there aren’t most shows that are worth watching are longer plot arcs. [00:57:17] Christina: Yeah, no, most of them are serialized, Right? [00:57:19] Like most of them are going to be, are going to have that in large part because at this point, many people now binge-watch, so we’ve started to, to build it in like, it’s weird because some of them are still designed to be watched one episode a week or whatnot. [00:57:33] But there is this understanding that people are going to watch many at a time. So it [00:57:39] Brett: do it Netflix style and dump them all at once and [00:57:42] Christina: Right. Exactly. So, so you, so you need to have like a continuing story thing where you get to know stuff. And so they can, you know, start with, with, you know, one arc and then go through, you know, the end and you’re right. [00:57:53] It did change in the two thousands. Um, there were some shows that would you kind of a mix of things, ER, was like a good [00:58:00] example where they had like things that could last, you know, whole seasons. Um, but they had other things happening too [00:58:08] Brett: Well, like subplots that, that go on across a season, but then each episode still has kind of a formulaic, beginning and end. [00:58:19] Christina: exactly. And like, like, ER, I think like did a good job with that. Then you had things like the wire where it was very determined from the beginning of each season, had a theme and was unraveling like a certain, you know, thing. Right. Um, so [00:58:34] Brett: I also, I’ve never seen the wire, the wire and the west wing. I feel like I need to watch eventually. [00:58:39] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:58:40] Brett: tried madman. Like I always, people always talked about Madmen and it won a bunch of awards and I always, I love John ham and I thought someday I’ll sit down and watch madman. So I recently tried and I could not get into it. [00:58:55] It’s so fucking slow. And it [00:59:00] hurts me. Like I can’t, I can’t I’m on like four episodes in and I just can’t do it anymore. [00:59:06] Christina: Yeah. Um, I love mad men, so I don’t want to tell you there, but I [00:59:11] Brett: Al like maybe it’s just me [00:59:15] Christina: yeah, cause I, I slow is not something that I would think about with that. Show me. Maybe it’s not fast moving, but I just feel like it’s a good character study. I don’t know. It’s just, it’s a really good show. Um, [00:59:24] Brett: episodes in and really nothing had happened. It was all character development. [00:59:30] Christina: It’s a very character strong show. I mean, honestly, because it’s about an ad agency, it’s not going to have a ton of, there are some plot lines and some things that expose themselves, but it is really a character drama. It’s, it’s not, you know, like, [00:59:41] Brett: I need a conflict to get me interested. [00:59:44] Christina: so you would enjoy the, you would enjoy the wire in that regard. [00:59:47] Um, uh, I would also recommend if you haven’t seen it, it’s not on stream, but you can get it on Plex. Um, I’ve said this before, but I will once again recommend, um, homicide life on the street, because that is in [01:00:00] many ways, like the precursor for all of that. And that was based on David Simon’s book and he wound up writing for it for a little bit. [01:00:07] And that is the best cop show ever, ever, ever, ever. Um, like it was, and they were doing fast cuts. Like now you would watch it and you would feel like it was slow moving, but like when they, and when it came out in like 93, like they were doing jump cut stuff. Was discerning like disconcerting to people to the point that like reviewers would comment on it, you know? [01:00:29] And they were like, oh, we don’t know if audiences will be able to, you know, like kind of keep up with the, the edit style and whatnot. And, um, um, it was, uh, canceled several times by NBC and then saved several times. Um, but Yeah. [01:00:46] uh, homicide is like, uh, Andre Brower, um, before he was on Brooklyn, Hein Hein was a detective, a Frank Pembleton and [01:00:53] Brett: Andre. [01:00:55] Christina: he’s the black guy. [01:00:55] He’s the captain. [01:00:56] Brett: Oh, cool. Okay. [01:00:58] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. So [01:01:00] he won Emmys for that role and on homicide. I mean, it’s a drama. Uh, it’s also, uh, where, uh, Richard Belzer, um, is detective munch character who has gone on to beyond like dozens of other shows, like had, uh, he like had a whole, like 10 season arc on, on law and order SVU. Uh, the character was created for homicide and he was a character in homicide. [01:01:19] Brett: Nice. All right. [01:01:20] Christina: Uh, so yeah, that, that, that, that’s a good one. [01:01:23] Brett: I will check it out after castle. Maybe. [01:01:27] Christina: Yeah. [01:01:28] Brett: No, I always watched three or four shows at once. [01:01:30] Christina: What? We’ll get, give it a shot. I will say like, It’s going to be, because you’ll only be able to find it on, on SD. Um, and DVD reps, give it a shot. It’s a 90 show is going to be, even though they make the quick cuts, it it’s going to be kind of a slower pace. And some of the stuff is when I, but it’s, it’s a really good show. [01:01:48] Like it’s. [01:01:49] Brett: Speaking of rips. My Plex stopped. I can’t load it on my apple TV anymore. Like I can still get to it through the web [01:02:00] interface. I can still get to it from my iPad, but on the apple TV, my server just shows up with the little yellow triangle and says it’s not online. And I can’t figure out, I can’t figure out how to remove it and reset it. [01:02:12] I can’t figure out why it wouldn’t be work. It’s driving me nuts. Cause I have, I got Northern exposure on there and that was kinda my other comfort show. And now I can’t watch it on my apple TV and that’s where I may not. [01:02:28] Christina: Nice. [01:02:29] Brett: is the other thing I do with my Synology is run my own Plex server. [01:02:33] Let’s talk about even OLDER TV, shall we? [01:02:33] Christina: Yeah, we do that too. Um, Northern exposure. Do you have it with the original music? [01:02:38] Brett: Uh, I do not know. Um, but I also have news radio, which is holds up very well. [01:02:46] Christina: my God. I was going to say Newsradio is my favorite sitcom of the nineties, hands down [01:02:49] Brett: Yeah, it [01:02:50] Christina: my, in my opinion. And that’s one of my comfort shows. That’s one of the shows I can watch forever. And in my opinion, like news radio was the best comedy of the nineties and it’s, it was [01:03:00] the DVDs are great because they have tons of audio commentaries, and they of this is amazing. [01:03:07] They got the guy who ran, uh, programming and like the schedule for NBC who hated. They got him on one of the commentaries, like with the creator and some of the actors, and basically got him to admit that like, yeah, he was just kind of being a Dick and didn’t care what the rating said. He was going to move them around to a million different times to no one could find it cause he just didn’t get the show or like the show. [01:03:26] Um, it was a very interesting commentary. They also got, um, um, Warren Littlefield who was the president of NBC and also was kind of nice to show and then was kind of not nice the show. They got him on the commentary tracks too. And he had to kind of have a Mia culpa kind of awkward conversations, but also brilliant. [01:03:42] And, uh, it makes me miss DVD commentaries because, um, that’s the sort of shit that, uh, there are very few shows that would do like, but it makes sense like, but those writers and those producers that they’d be like, yeah, we’re going to bring on people who were really shitty to us and ask them questions that we know that the fans would want to know. [01:04:00] [01:04:00] Brett: Do you think we would have Joe Rogan? If it wasn’t for news radio, there’s a downside. Um, anyway. [01:04:09] Christina: actually, I’m not sure. Um, probably not, but there’s still an alternate universe where, because of a standup comedy, he could have gotten fear factor and fear factor is, was what then led him to doing, you know, he still did standup and comedy and stuff like that. And that led to the podcast. I’m not really sure. [01:04:26] Honestly, it probably, uh, it would be different, but I don’t know. [01:04:30] Brett: Yeah, I’m sure there’d be like a whole butterfly effect. If we removed Joe Joe Rogan from the equation. I’m sure. [01:04:37] Christina: Well, he was originally, he was originally not supposed to be, it. [01:04:39] was supposed to be Ray Romano and Raimondo got fired. [01:04:42] Brett: Oh, well that sucks. [01:04:45] Christina: he, well, Ray was apparently very bad and, um, and uh, he owned it and apparently like, he, like, he was just not good. And so they fired him like the first day or first week or whatever. Some, he didn’t even make it to like the pilot filming and, [01:05:00] um, um, but Ray was fine. Cause then [01:05:02] Brett: Wait, so you’re saying he would have been the, he would have been the maintenance guy on news radio. [01:05:08] Christina: I think so. [01:05:09] Brett: Oh, that would be, that would be pretty funny. [01:05:11] Christina: ’cause, I’m pretty sure Joe, Rogan’s not in the pilot. I’m pretty sure that they had had, they had to have somebody else in his place because again, like they’d fired Ray Romano. Um, but, uh, Yeah. but then a year later within a year, rare mano gets his own fucking sit-com. So [01:05:27] Brett: He, he did. All right. [01:05:28] Christina: he did fine. [01:05:29] Brett: Yeah. And [01:05:30] Christina: And, And Joe Rogan for all of his problems was great on news radio. [01:05:34] Brett: was, he was very lovable when you didn’t know about the rest of him. [01:05:38] Christina: Well, I mean, when you, when you didn’t realize that, like he was essentially playing himself, right. [01:05:43] Brett: Yeah. [01:05:44] Christina: you know, conspiracy theory, like kind of machismo guy. I mean, I don’t know. He, he, he was, uh, everybody on that show was great. [01:05:52] You should totally get some sleep. [01:05:52] Brett: All right. Lulu is at a breaking point. The only reason she’s not barking right into the microphone is cause I’m scratching her head right now. But if I stop she’ll [01:06:00] bark, so we should wrap up. [01:06:02] Christina: We should totally wrap up. [01:06:03] Brett: This has been fun. I’m looking forward to next week with Brian. [01:06:07] Christina: me too. [01:06:08] And, uh, thanks everyone for listening. Uh, I think there’s still a listener survey. [01:06:13] Brett: That’ll be in our show notes that I’d love it. If you filled it out and, uh, Hey Christina, get some sleep. [01:06:22] Christina: get some sleep.

A winding journey from Ted Lasso to Windows, with frequent stops at great Mac apps, UN*X tools, and maybe probably that whole Facebook thing. Sponsors ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED SimpliSafe announced their brand new Wireless Outdoor Security Camera. They’re celebrating by offering 20% off your entire new system and your first month of monitoring service FREE when you enroll in Interactive Monitoring. To learn more, visit simplisafe.com/overtired. Listener Survey Please help us improve the show by taking a minute to fill out a listener survey. If you do, you could win a $50 Amazon gift card, in addition to the feeling of accomplishment you’ll have for actually finishing something today. Because it’s been one of those days, hasn’t it? Show Links Ted Lasso Facebook Whistleblower reveals identity Kaleidoscope Git Tower Vim Emacs Org Mode Nord Vim Lucky Charms iTerm 2 Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 257 [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren. I’m here with Brett Terpstra, Brett, how are you? [00:00:10] Brett: Um, I’m super swell. Uh, fucking amazing. But are you feeling. [00:00:16] Christina: I am finally feeling. [00:00:17] better. Thank you. I, uh, I thank you again, Ashley Esqueda for filling in last week. We even punted like several days. And I was just so sick. Um, I did not have the Rona, but I had like one hell of a sinus infection. And I had to go through like the entire seven day course of antibiotics before I started to feel better. [00:00:37] Brett: So, so you actually were legit sick. Uh, [00:00:40] Christina: I was like legit sick. [00:00:42] Brett: I, I might need to see a doctor’s note. [00:00:46] Christina: I didn’t even tweet, like people were [00:00:48] Brett: Oh, [00:00:48] Christina: People were like reaching out to me. They were like, they were like, are you okay? I was like, no, I am saying. [00:00:54] Brett: I haven’t seen you tweet for three days. Are you okay? [00:00:57] Christina: That’s basically what it [00:00:58] Brett: go check her [00:01:00] apartment. [00:01:00] Christina: that that’s, that’s almost exactly what it was. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I was just, uh, I, I do have a doctor’s note if I needed to get you one, but, uh, I had to do the Teladoc thing. [00:01:12] Brett: Oh yeah. [00:01:12] Christina: I mean, I could, I could’ve gone to the doctor, but the Teladoc thing was easier. I was like, I have a sinus infection. [00:01:18] Like, what are your symptoms? I was like, well, this is what it is like You have these often. Yeah. This time a year, every single year, I was like, actually, if you want to look through my history this time a year, a year ago, you know, like I think it was like two days apart from like a year previously when I last had a Teladoc appointment with a sinus infection, the exact same time. [00:01:38] So. [00:01:39] Brett: You would be amazed at how well, if it were time to do a sponsoree that would lead like right into our first sponsor, but it’s not, we gotta wait till like, we’re like 10, 15 minutes in. So put a pin in that. [00:01:52] Christina: put a pin in that. And then we’ll, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll save that. [00:01:54] Mental Health Corner [00:01:54] Christina: for the, for the sponsor read, um, segue. Um, so, [00:02:00] uh, I guess, uh, I have like lots of Bret mental health corner. Catch-up how are you? [00:02:04] Brett: Oh, uh, so I had like the expected depression after my last manic episode. That only lasted, like, I think about five days and I I’ve been like great ever since totally stable, like a wonderful loving partner, uh, just able to like function in the world. It’s been splendid. [00:02:30] Christina: Yay. That’s very exciting. That makes me very happy. [00:02:34] Brett: How have you been [00:02:35] Christina: Um, I think, okay. [00:02:36] Brett: mentally? I mean, we know you weren’t great physically. [00:02:39] Christina: No, I know that’s and that’s what I mean. I mean, not like the best, but you know, getting there. Um, so we’ll, we’ll see my doctor, like, like I said before, he got me, um, the sleep medicine, but then I got sick. So I haven’t even had any chance to like, see, like, if that’s working or anything. [00:02:57] Brett: My sleep for the last couple of [00:03:00] nights has been really shitty. Not like manic up all night. Shit. He just like tossing and turning [00:03:06] Christina: Yeah, [00:03:06] Brett: I wake up around, uh, three or four and then the rest of the morning, I’m just kind of like up and down and, um, it’s draining me. [00:03:17] Christina: no, that is draining. Am not having good sleep is, is rough. I, um, and then my whole thing is like, I slept so much. When I was sick that like now, like my body is almost like, okay, you’ve had too much sleep, so we’re not, we don’t want to sleep. So it, it it’s been like a weird thing this week, so I didn’t get much sleep last night, but, um, and I’ve been up since five something, um, [00:03:44] Oh, Ted [00:03:44] Brett: Yeah, you were up like watching Ted lasso, like the minute it came out. [00:03:49] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, well, I mean, I can share this. I’m not going to share who shared it with me, so then can get mad. And also I didn’t spoil anything until after the embargo lifted, but a friend of mine [00:04:00] has, um, screener access to the apple TV stuff, which I think actually with our podcasts and given what we talk about, I think I could probably make the case to get screen or access to be totally honest, but I just haven’t gone through those hoops and [00:04:13] Brett: I, I would, I would have fun with that. [00:04:15] Christina: Yeah. Okay. I’ll I’ll, I’ll I’ll work on that, but, um, most of the shows. Even though they come out weekly, they drop all the episodes for the press. Um, and, and other people like all at once. So like I’ve seen all of morning show, season two. Um, there are dates before you can talk about stuff. And I I’m, uh, I’m adhering to that, even though I, you know, didn’t technically sign anything. [00:04:39] I’m not going to spoil things for anyone, but Ted lasso was interesting and that they would only put it up, I think like a few hours or like a day before. The actual episode dropped. So it was one of those things where I knew that the episode was going to come out, like at 9:00 PM my time. And then I logged on at like 7:00 PM and I hadn’t, I hadn’t logged in the day before, so I don’t know [00:05:00] what day, uh, it became available for, you know, earlier, but, but I, but I do know that they would do like, uh, it would be very close to the actual time to drop the episode before press would get it. [00:05:10] And so I watched the, um, the season for that. And, uh, I’m not gonna spoil anything, but, um, has some good stuff. [00:05:18] Brett: Yeah. W I, I’m curious to see where the Nate story goes. [00:05:22] Christina: Yes, because that was the thing, like the penultimate episode, like left on this, like massive, like, like cliffhanger, like reveal, like all season we’ve seen, like, and I’d been, I said this to grant when we were, we’ve been watching the show together and, um, ironically he downloads it from Usenet and then watches it on the plaques and I’m like, you know, we have an apple TV subscription. [00:05:43] He’s like, Yeah. [00:05:44] I don’t care. Um, and I’m like, you know what I mean? Like, and I’m like, I get it, whatever, like, I, I I’m, I’m paying them $30 a month or whatever I pay for apple one. Um, so I, but, but it is one of those funny things. I’m like, we, we [00:06:00] actually have the service, we could use this, whatever. Um, and so we’ve been watching it together and I’ve been commenting basically since like the first episode of the season. [00:06:09] I’m like, they’re building this Nate thing. He’s, he’s having to build a piece having kind of. You know, he’s going towards explosion, but even that, and even kind of seeing like how he was treating will, you know, the kit guy and some of his other behavior, like you could see that, like there was a darkness coming, but to see like the penultimate episode of like what he did to Ted. [00:06:32] Wow. [00:06:33] Brett: Well, and, and what’s her name when he like, [00:06:36] Christina: Right. [00:06:38] Brett: basically assaults her in the middle of a clothing store? [00:06:41] Christina: Yeah. [00:06:41] basically. And, and, and then, you know, she’s very kind about it and he’s looking at himself in the mirror and he spits out himself, you know, like he’s just, he’s, he’s angry. Yeah, I mean, they’re, they’re playing up the in cell thing, like real well, like, and honestly, If he fits the [00:07:00] type, right? Like it, uh, I saw a Twitter thread. [00:07:02] I’ll, I’ll see if I can find it so we can put it in the show notes, but somebody wrote something last week after the episode came out where they went back and they found, I guess, signs in season one that kind of led to this and kind of showed where like how far back this has been building. And, and there was an interview in the LA times with Nick Muhammad who, who plays, um, Nate. [00:07:25] That also kind of alluded to the fact that they’d, I guess kind of had the idea for this arc, you know, clearly in the first season, like, like Jason, um and, and Brett Goldstein. Um, who’s also one of the writers on the show, uh, Brett Goldstein is, is, uh, Roy Kent. You know, they both kind of said things to him about like, [00:07:44] Brett: there. He’s every fucking way [00:07:46] Christina: exactly. [00:07:48] Brett: we’re going to name no matter what gender our next cat is, we’re naming our next cat, right cat. [00:07:52] Christina: I mean, as you should, like, it’s just such a perfect name. Um, but, but it it’s interesting. Cause I think like the [00:08:00] juxtaposition between, uh, Jamie tarts arc, um, this season, um, and, and Nate’s arc, it’s really interesting to see like how those characters, especially from where they were the first season and where they wind up in the second season. [00:08:15] It’s very interesting. [00:08:16] Brett: from that first day, when, when Ted asked Nate his name and Nate is floored that anyone cares what his name is. Uh, like I feel like that at the time, very much seemed like we were building Ted lasso his character, but that was absolutely the beginning of. Starting to get this, uh, like it, at first it seemed like he was going to gain like a healthy self [00:08:43] Christina: Right. Exactly. Exactly. And then, [00:08:46] Brett: But, that took a turn [00:08:49] Christina: I took a turn. It took a dark. [00:08:51] turn and it’s interesting. Cause, and you’ll see it more in the finale. Um, and again, I’m not spoiling anything except to say that they actually said [00:09:00] that, the way that they kind of do this and the way they kind of make this character seem like it’s a realistic sort of scenario where you have people who have maybe been put upon and I’ve been bullied and haven’t been paid attention to, and then they either have a little bit of success go to their head or. [00:09:17] They have an opportunity to feel like an entitlement, like I’m owed something. Like that’s the thing that sticks out to me is like this, this guy is a piece of shit, Right. [00:09:25] Like he, whether he’s redeemable or not, I’m not going to, you know, share anything more. And, and, you know, we’ve got at least another season, you know, that there’ll be working that stuff out. [00:09:34] Um, but there I’ve definitely had in my own life, like the experience of the, of the guy who would think to himself, I’m the nice guy and, and no one, everyone treats me like shit and doesn’t respect me. And I’m so put upon and I’m so, you know, maltreated. Um, but, but, but feel this sense of like, but I’m owed something by the world, like, like someone like Keely should, of course kissed me and, and, [00:10:00] and should be into me. [00:10:01] And of course I should have the opportunities to be the coach and to be respected to have this and that. And it’s like, no, you’re not right. Like, You’re an a, you’re not a nice guy because many of those guys are not nice guys. And they feel like entitled and, and I’ve, you know, as a woman I’ve dealt with that. [00:10:21] Way too many times. And, um, and, and sometimes the worst thing that you can do, I hate to say this, but it’s the truth is be nice to one of those. So-called nice guy, sometimes just the absolute worst than you can do, because then if you don’t reciprocate their feelings and if you don’t want to go into that place, they do get angry when you don’t like they get in and it can be scary. [00:10:44] And it, Yeah, it’s a common thing. [00:10:48] Brett: It sucks that there are penalties for being nice and that anyone has to be scared of being a decent human being. [00:10:59] Christina: Yeah, [00:11:00] [00:11:00] Brett: we were, we were going to start out by talking about Facebook, but this was honestly far more interesting. [00:11:06] Christina: I agree. [00:11:07] Sponsor: ZocDoc [00:11:07] Brett: Um, let’s, uh, let’s jump back to that whole doctor visit thing, uh, because our friend would have been, and he way, our first sponsor today is Zoc doc, uh, which is like four scheduling doctor’s appointments. [00:11:26] So let me tell you about it. Do you get excited by a five-star driver? Let’s be honest rating. Everybody does ratings matter a lot. And when it comes to finding healthcare ratings matter, even more. Zoc doc is an app where you compare doctors by their ratings and read reviews from real patients. So you can find and book highly rated local doctors just download the free Zoc doc app. [00:11:53] The easiest way to find a great doctor and instantly book an appointment with Zac doc, you can search for local doctors who [00:12:00] take your insurance. Read verified, patient reviews and book an appointment in-person or video chat, never wait on hold with receptionist again. Whether you need a primary care physician, a dentist, a dermatologist, a psychiatrist and I doctor, or another specialist. [00:12:16] Zack doc has you covered? Just go to Zack, Zack good stock doc.com. That’s a rough one. Zoc doc.com/ Overtired. And download the. Doc app to sign up for free every month, millions of people use Okta. I’ll be using it to book my own next primary care visit. And I’m looking forward to it. A duck duck makes healthcare. [00:12:40] Now is the time to PRI prioritize your health. Go to Zoc doc.com/ Overtired and download the Zoc doc app to sign up for free and book a top rated doctor many are available as soon as today. That’s Z O C D O c.com/ Overtired. [00:13:00] Thanks to Zack doc. I think it sounds like a great service. I am looking forward to giving you. [00:13:06] Christina: Yeah, I, I I’m going to say this. Isn’t part of our Adoree, but I’ve actually used them for years and it’s yeah. Yeah. [00:13:13] Brett: should have had you do the adoration. [00:13:14] Christina: Now I have to say like, when I first moved to New York, um, one of the first like advice, I guess, that people gave me, and this was, you know, a decade ago, it was like you seamless grub hub or whatever, And use doc doc. [00:13:26] And now they have the tele-health stuff too, which is great. But honestly, like one of the most frustrating things is always like, okay, where’s a doctor that takes my insurance. It’s the, you know, it’s like a massive problem. Where’s one near me. And whereas like a, like an immediate medicine or something like that, you know, like where somebody closes. [00:13:43] Brett: being able to book appointments right from the app. That’s yeah, that’s [00:13:47] Christina: No, it’s great. And So, [00:13:48] I’ve used them for years and, and big fan, like legitimately, like that’s not part of our sponsor read, just saying like [00:13:55] Brett: it is because they would love. Some testimonial, but I [00:14:00] hadn’t actually tried it yet. So you just filled in the testimonial part of the ad read. So that’s Zoc doc.com/ Overtired. Thanks, Christina. [00:14:10] Christina: Thanks. [00:14:11] Brett: You just, you made the ad read word. [00:14:14] Christina: Well it’s good when we have like stuff that, you know what I mean? Like these are the things it’s like, yeah. I’ve been using this for a [00:14:19] Brett: Well sure. Like we get, like, we get sane box and we get, uh, what was the last one that I was a huge fan of. Oh, hello, fresh. Yeah. We get some stuff that I’m already like a big fan of you long-time user. And those are my, those are my favorite on text expander. Come on. [00:14:38] Christina: expander, come [00:14:39] Brett: We get great sponsors. [00:14:40] Christina: We really do we really do and sponsor us if you, if you have a great product sponsor us. Um, [00:14:46] Brett: Yeah. W we’ll take your money. We’ll say nice things. [00:14:50] Christina: definitely. [00:14:51] Brett: We won’t say nice things about bad stuff though. I feel like I have turned down a fair number of sponsors just because I don’t feel [00:15:00] like they fit us and it’s not something I would actually. [00:15:04] Christina: No, totally. Like we would not take a Facebook sponsorship. [00:15:07] Brett: Speaking of nicely done. So is anyone shocked by what’s going on with Facebook? I guess I’m shocked by the six hour downtime like [00:15:20] Oh, Facebook [00:15:20] Christina: That was shocking. That was shocking. That was apparently like a, like a BGP DNS misconfiguration, uh, which I, which, which I, I understand, right? like that. the timing was obviously assess here’s. What’s interesting to me. And I said this on rocket, but I can talk about this more in depth with you because you and I, we can talk more freely about this. [00:15:39] I don’t think that it was related to the whistleblower stuff At all. I think that it. [00:15:43] was a complete coincidence. But, but the fact that even reasonable people would have a thought in the back of their mind, like, well, maybe to me that says everything about how fucked Facebook is in the trust department, right? [00:15:57] Like when, even something that’s as [00:16:00] like just stupid bananas, asinine, um, of conspiracy theory to think that a publicly traded company would stage a downtime to get rid of internal documents or other stuff. [00:16:11] Right. Because that would actually be a crime if that were the case. Um, anything that that, um, was like, um, like, so to think that, that, that would actually be a possibility when obviously it’s not the fact that like, Entertained in a half joking way, says everything about like who this company is. [00:16:33] Brett: well, I mean, what did he lose? Like six, $7 billion during that period. That that’s a hefty price. That page is for some coverup of, uh, of, uh, a lawsuit you would win. [00:16:47] Christina: Exactly. Well, and, and also, you know, a cover-up port for a thing that you would lose, like if you actually tried to do that and also like, okay, so they went down to, cause I’m looking at their stock price right [00:17:00] now. Like they, they got as low as you know, um, I dunno like it, the stock dropped a little bit, but then it came back. [00:17:10] So. Like whatever, they’re still up an insane amount year over year. Like, like, like, like, like a year ago they were at $244 a share. Now they’re like $333 a share. So yeah, that would be a dumb thing to, to take that kind of hit. Um, obviously they, they, you know, it was a, um, just a coincidence, but it is interesting. [00:17:39] I think by like how not spice we are. Although I have to say, I really liked the whistleblower. [00:17:44] Brett: Oh, for sure. [00:17:47] Christina: No, no, but like, she’s not somebody who has like an ideological or like a policy. Which I think is actually good because like a good friend of mine works at the eff and she was like, man, I really [00:18:00] hate her positions on policy. [00:18:01] And the eff is, you know, it doesn’t like the stuff she’s saying and this and that. And I was like, look, that’s a good thing. We don’t want the whistleblower to have an ideological or in my opinion, like policy bent on this stuff, because that, in my opinion, I think that takes. At least for some of the public and for and for Congress, I think that would maybe taint the positioning a little bit, right? [00:18:22] Like if you have somebody who had like a very strict point of view and like had a very, like, sort of like ideological like thing and is like, this is why it took these documents and this is why I’m doing this. And these are the, you know, uh, policy decisions you should make with this company. I think. [00:18:36] That for some people would make them go, Okay. [00:18:38] well you have an agenda and we’re now going to dismiss or not take us seriously. The concerns you brought up, but when you have somebody who’s like, I knowingly took this job at this company in 2019, even after there had been. At reporting, but I want it to be on this, on this, you know, um, misinformation bent and I trusted, um, that they would be doing the [00:19:00] right things. [00:19:00] And then what I saw and, and the information I found proved differently. And then the team was disbanded and, you know, somebody who’s going out of her way to saying, I don’t think that people they’re acting malevolently, which. Again, I don’t know if a lot of other people agree with that. Like, I don’t agree with that. [00:19:15] I think that I, I don’t know if it’s maybe necessarily like intentionally malevolent, but I think that there’s a very conscientious, like intentional decision to not care about those things. Um, but that’s, hasn’t been her positioning and I honestly think that makes the whistleblowing and the stuff that she shared that much. [00:19:33] Brett: What is the effs kind of beef with, uh, with what she’s. [00:19:39] Christina: They don’t have a beef with her at all. I think that they would just wish it in their mind, like the perfect person would be somebody who’d be like this company should be split up and, and, you know, be more critical. Right. I honestly, I think their, their biggest thing with her is that they don’t think she’s critical F honestly, And, and to me, I feel like that’s actually, I think the [00:20:00] assets to what she’s saying is to have someone who’s not overly critical of the company is the one who’s doing that. [00:20:07] Brett: So what exactly is what’s going to come out of? This is any, there’s a congressional hearing. Facebook looks bad, uh, combine that with, you know, a major outage and they lose some money they’re already bouncing back. Is, is there any, any change that’s going to happen because of the whistleblower? [00:20:31] Christina: That’s unclear, although it is interesting that, you know, they’d had planned this whole, like Instagram for younger adults thing. Like they had the whole Instagram kids thing and that’s been been shuttered, [00:20:43] Brett: Do they call it your Instagram? [00:20:45] Christina: No, but, but, uh, you know, Facebook, Instagram kids, or whatever, they had that whole plan. [00:20:51] Cause you know, for them, their whole thing is, and this is like a, an ongoing kind of concern for them is they’re kind of like. How are we going to get more [00:21:00] users? How are we going to get the next generation of people? Cause Tech-Talk has that stuff under lock and Tik TOK doesn’t even have to pretend to care about things like privacy and other stuff, right? [00:21:09] Like they’re, they’re, they’re a foreign company and, and I, and, and they don’t even protect. Like, that’s not even part of their Mo right? Like, like, like part of Facebook’s I think problem is that they have acted so paternalistically about their stuff and that the, for so long. And I know this from, from people who I know who’ve worked at the company and some who still do who, people who genuinely think that they were working for a good place and the people who are there still think they work at a good place. [00:21:33] Right? Like they don’t see themselves as the bad guys, which is very interesting. But I think that if you know, but they need this younger audience, they need that for growth. And so if you’re now getting a lot of regulator attention, because the one thing that regulators will kind of go after is anything involving kids. [00:21:52] Cause that’s one of the few areas where they can have some teeth and if they’re having to make. Changes to product [00:22:00] rollouts and stuff like that. That’s not insignificant. And I have to think that obviously some of the previous congressional inquiries are part of that, but the leaks are part of that too. [00:22:08] You know, the fact that like she shared like the research that they shows that shows that teenage girls are more depressed and that eating disorders go up and that suicidal tendencies go up and all these negative behaviors go up when they use Instagram. And then the more those negative behaviors go up, the more they use the app and it’s this, you know, Terrible cyclical cycle. [00:22:27] And they know this then that I think makes it very difficult for you then to come out and say, Hey, we’re going to make this really great app for kids so that people under 13 can be on our plan. [00:22:41] Brett: Yeah. [00:22:43] Christina: So, I don’t know, but, but long-term stuff I’m not really sure. I think though, it’s interesting. I got in a fight with a Benedicta Evans. Who’s an asshole. Fuck him. Um, uh, he’s like a VC piece of whatever he was being, um, uh, [00:23:00] I guess defensive about like what their PR strategy is and whatnot, and, and wanting to know like, oh, you know, how are they supposed to, you know, respond, everyone hates them, this and that. [00:23:09] And then he made some sort of comment, like a separate related point when journalists built Twitter profiles around their opinions and have hundreds of thousands of followers cheering, their dunks, who’s punching up and who’s punching down, uh, kind of responding to the, the, the idea of, uh, um, you know, um, People who are critical of Facebook. [00:23:31] Um, and, and, and talking about how, like, how, what their comms response should be. And my response to that, I was like, Yeah. [00:23:37] the trillion dollar company, if you’re a journalist or just a normal person, if you’re dunking on the trillion dollar company, you’re not punching, you’re not punching down. I’m [00:23:46] Brett: No, there’s no way that’s [00:23:49] Christina: There’s no way that happens fuck off. Uh, and then he got into a whole thing with me about it. He was like, you know, if I’d actually said, journalists shouldn’t criticize Facebook, then that would be wrong. But actually, I didn’t say [00:24:00] that at all. And you didn’t make any attempt to understand. You just went for the dunk and the insult, which rather proves my point. [00:24:05] Fuck off. Do you go, go search for your like weird fetish porn again, that’s a see, that would have been done. That would have been punching. Which I won’t do on Twitter, but I will do on the podcast, he was exposed a number of years ago. It was very funny where he shares some sort of auto-complete thing. [00:24:19] And it showed like that he had been clearly looking up some like Asian porn star and, um, people had, uh, at a nice dunk on him about that. And like, look like what you like, I don’t care. But that would be, that would be punching down. [00:24:34] even though his following is much larger than mine. And he has much more money than me, but that would be punching down. [00:24:39] That would be like a cheap. People critic pro critiquing Facebook and, and, and using their Twitter platforms, even to rail against Facebook is not punching down in any vicinity. I don’t care if you have a hundred million followers, you’re not Facebook, like fuck off with that shit. [00:24:57] Brett: I agree. [00:24:58] Christina: Anyway, I’m sorry. That’s my rant. [00:24:59] I’m not [00:25:00] [00:25:00] Brett: even mark Zuckerberg as a person [00:25:02] Christina: right. [00:25:03] Brett: that that’s not punching down. [00:25:05] Christina: No, it’s not, it’s not, I I’ll never forget through the social network. Uh, you know, came out 11 years ago, fucking great movie. And when it came out, And I sat at the time, I was like, this is the best thing that ever happened to Facebook. And the company was so upset about that movie. Like they wouldn’t let Sony advertise the movie on Facebook, which was very funny that the Facebook movie couldn’t be advertised on Facebook. [00:25:25] They tried to claim this because they’d use some or font or this or that, but really they were just butt hurt. And, you know, mark was very hurt by how he was portrayed in the film and this and that I’m like, are you kidding me? Like, that’s the best thing that could’ve ever happened, because even though the portrayal was not kind, it was at least iconic, you know what I mean? [00:25:45] Like, and it kind of created this mystique thing it’s like, and I, I still stand by it. Like that movie was the best thing that ever happened to that company. And, and, and that wasn’t punching down. [00:25:54] you know what I mean? And that was something where like, they were very upset by their portrayal and were very upset. [00:25:58] Oh, we’ve been misunderstood. Like [00:26:00] that’s always kind of been their thing is like, you know, we’re we really want to change the world and we have good intentions and a lot of the people who work. I do, but they’ve built this and have optimized for really disturbing behavior, which we continue to see over and over and over again. [00:26:16] And it’s just like, fuck man. [00:26:18] Brett: Speaking of surveillance. Oh, that was, I’m going to give that a B. [00:26:24] Christina: Yeah. That’s a B, [00:26:25] Brett: That’s a B, but there’s big news in home security. Have you heard [00:26:31] Christina: I have not. [00:26:33] Brett: that’s weird. Cause we just talked about it like two weeks ago, Christina, [00:26:37] Christina: Well, tell me again, tell me [00:26:38] Brett: I didn’t give you any heads up. I’m sorry. [00:26:41] Christina: you didn’t, you didn’t. [00:26:43] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:26:43] Brett: Well, simply safe. Just launched their new wireless outdoor security camera. [00:26:47] That’s right. Simply safe. The system that us news and world report named the best home security system of 2021 just got even better. This brand new outdoor security camera is [00:27:00] engineered with all the advanced tech and security features you want and need to help keep you and your family safe. It has an ultra wide hundred and 40 degree field of view. [00:27:09] So you can keep watch over your entire yard. It has 10 80 P H G resolution with an eight X zoom. That means you can zoom in and clearly see things like faces and license plates to capture critical evidence. It has a built-in spotlight with color night vision. So you can keep an eye on what’s going on. [00:27:28] Dan night. It’s super simple to set up and usually takes just minutes. And it has an easy to remove rechargeable batteries. So it doesn’t need an outlet and it can go anywhere on your property. This camera has it all. And it integrates with your simply safe home security system, extending its protection to the outside together. [00:27:47] It means every door, window, and room are protected and now your property will be. To learn more about the exciting new simply safe wireless outdoor security camera visit. Simply [00:28:00] safe.com/ Overtired. That simply with an I S I M P L I S a F E a and what’s more simply safe is celebrating this new camera by offering 20% off your entire new system. [00:28:12] And your first month of monitoring service. Free when you enroll in inner interactive monitoring, again, that’s simply safe.com/ Overtired. [00:28:23] Oh, Amazon [00:28:23] Brett: That would have been a weird sponsor to have last week when Ashley and I talked about the, what we coined the wing doorbell, uh, Amazon’s new surveillance system. [00:28:35] Christina: Oh, yeah. [00:28:37] Brett: Okay. [00:28:38] W you got you, you, I I’m pretty sure you didn’t listen to the episode you were sick, but, uh, Ashley, I can’t remember. I think Ashley came up with it, but basically we realized that their new flying, uh, camera was basically a ring doorbell with wings and Facebook totally dropped the ball and [00:29:00] didn’t call it. [00:29:00] Or Amazon totally dropped the ball and didn’t call it the wing door. [00:29:04] Christina: They tell the valley that also they totally dropped the ball on not like licensing, like X wing, right? Like, like, like they had call it like the X wing doorbell and had like a, like a star wars. Tie-in like, they might’ve convinced more people to be like, oh, this isn’t that creepy. Even though, you know, it’s like the creepiest thing. [00:29:23] Brett: I have these stickers that, so my favorite get app, they should sponsor us, but tower, have you ever used tower? [00:29:30] Christina: I love tower. [00:29:31] Brett: amazing. They, they send me stickers every time I get a new machine, I’m like, Hey, can you guys send me more stickers? And they make amazing stickers, but they have these ones that are like, uh, uh, get history, you know, like when you do a good history and you get the, uh, branch, uh, graph, um, Uh, they have one that is a sword and it says, may the fork be with you? [00:29:58] And I love that one. [00:30:00] [00:30:00] Christina: I love that. That’s so good. You made it for [00:30:02] Brett: And then they have the one that’s this huge network of, of, of good history. And it says, get push coffee. Me. And those are my two favorite stickers on my laptop. [00:30:13] Oh, Indie Mac Software [00:30:13] Christina: I love it. Um, this, when you talking about tower, this just reminded me, do you remember the app? [00:30:18] Brett: Oh, I was, oh my God. I was just going to bring it up. Did you get Virgin? [00:30:22] Christina: yeah. [00:30:23] Brett: my God. And it’s it’s, uh, uh, Florian and, uh, Catlin and like all the people behind it now are awesome. Like it got picked up by, by three indie developers and, uh, it was their first acquisition and tell people what kaleidoscope is before I get over excited. [00:30:43] Christina: So it’s a visual diffing tool, but what’s cool about it. I mean, so there are a lot of different tools out there to basically show you the changes between your files. And so, you know, highlight, you know, changes in text or, or whatnot, And it’s really useful in documents and code commits and. [00:30:56] I see what’s happening there, there are a lot of plugins for things, you know, [00:31:00] um, you use with get clients. What I love about kaleidoscope is that is also one that’s like works with images and works with other file types, which is unique. Um, maybe not completely unique, but, but certainly when the app came out like a decade ago, way more uncommon, um, than, uh, than it would be now. [00:31:18] And so it’s a really. Attractive applications, easy to use. And then I like it because again, like you can, use it with images, you can use it with other types of file types, you know, and compare things. And it works really well. [00:31:30] Brett: it can integrate with the X code debugger, like directly with LLDB and you can any, any object you can print in LLDB you can diff the output of two different objects and like, just like straight from the command. And they have a command line tool. K S diff that you can use instead of a regular dif output. [00:31:53] Yeah, it’s so good. [00:31:54] Christina: It’s really good. [00:31:55] Brett: And, and merge, uh, conflict resolution, like [00:32:00] it’s super, like all keyboard bass you can flip through and, and merge, uh, get conflicts as it’s my it’s my merge 12, I just say merged tool. I can solve any conflict. [00:32:11] Christina: No totally. It’s one of those things. Like it’s not inexpensive. It’s, it’s a, and they did raise the price a little bit, but there’s no subscription. And it’s been a really long time since it’s been updated, it’s gone through a jillion different ownerships. It was originally made by sofa who also made, uh, the, the, the, um, SPN client versions. [00:32:28] Um, and then that company was bought by Facebook actually. Uh, Yeah. [00:32:33] so they were bought by Facebook and they were part of the Facebook paper team and, uh, which is not to be confused, but Twitter paper or Dropbox paper, this was a Facebook team that, that wound up, uh, they had kind of a prototype for something that didn’t really work. [00:32:48] Um, and I don’t know If Founders are still there, but, but they left. And so then they sold the apps. I believe it then went to black pixel might have been, but there might’ve been somebody else before that, but I [00:33:00] think that then went to black pixel black [00:33:02] Brett: was anyone before black pixel, then it just languished. Cause I don’t remember any version updates between [00:33:07] Christina: Right. And, and then black pixels took over and believes like a version two and then black pixel, um, had some, uh, some challenges and, and kind of changed their business. [00:33:15] I think they’ve been since. By someone and then it went to another company and then, uh, Florian and, um, um, other guys, uh, [00:33:26] Brett: Atlin, [00:33:27] Christina: you Atlin, uh, [00:33:29] Brett: and monkey, uh, I forget its actual name. [00:33:34] Christina: Exactly. So, so then, so then, uh, Christopher and Florianne and, and, uh, monkey, and these other guys like picked it up and that’s been the most recent thing. And so they bought it, I guess it finalized at the end of last year. Um, and apparently it took a really long time for them to do that. And they’ve spent the better part of the year, like updating the app completely because the app had basically been abandoned. [00:33:54] And I’ve even somebody how I was alerted that It came out, um, was, that somebody responded to [00:34:00] a tweet thread that I sent in 2019, asking if there were any good diffing tools for, for Macko Wes, not kaleidoscope. I was like, I don’t want to, you know, cause I couldn’t find my license for that. And I was like, I don’t want to buy this sand because it’s abandoned where, and it was at that point, [00:34:16] Brett: It was, [00:34:17] Christina: was. [00:34:18] And, and so I wasn’t going to be willing to like put money into that [00:34:21] Brett: never stopped using it. Just praying that it would keep working. [00:34:24] Christina: Right. And that was the thing. I couldn’t find my license. And so I was in a thing where I was like, well, I’m not going to say. [00:34:30] Brett: sure. I get [00:34:30] Christina: A hundred dollars on this. I’m not because it’s abandoned where, and, and there’s no guarantee that it’ll go anyway. Now, in this case, it wasn’t, and I would have been okay. But in most cases with that, that’s not how that. [00:34:42] works [00:34:42] Brett: Sure, sure. [00:34:43] Christina: So, um, you know, I was having to use kind of other plugins, get Len some other things and, and, um, some other tools and there’s just nothing. There’s nothing that’s as good as that. It’s just a really well-crafted app. And, uh, the new team they’re people who have. A long experience. Like they worked on points and, [00:35:00] and worked on like some other stuff. [00:35:01] Like they have like long Mac app experience and like they’re into it. And so I’m, [00:35:05] Brett: serious, serious indie credit behind it [00:35:07] Christina: serious indie cred. And I mean, it is the thing, as you mentioned, all the integrations that it can do, I think makes it more than just like a, uh, a diff tool. Because if you say diff tool $150, like that’s, that’s a hard thing for a lot [00:35:20] Brett: cause there are free ones. [00:35:22] Christina: there are free ones that are very good. And there are ones. [00:35:24] that, you know, like, like sublime has, you know, one and, and there are, you know, other [00:35:28] Brett: I’m sure there are multiples for D vs code. That seems like the kind of thing vs code would Excel at. [00:35:34] Christina: Yeah. get lenses is a really popular one and, and nothing against any of those things. And they can be really good to have it in your IDE, but sometimes like you need the separate thing, like you said, or you want to use it as your merge client. [00:35:46] Right. Which sometimes can just be the best thing. And, um, and for me, the imaging stuff has always been like one of the big standouts, um, [00:35:54] Brett: Yeah. It’s very cool. [00:35:55] Christina: Uh, cause that was something I used to use a lot, but Yeah. I mean, it’s a, I’m [00:36:00] really happy for them and I’m happy to support them. So yay. For like a good Mac app, like coming back from the dead, like hell yeah. [00:36:08] Brett: I think the price to buy it new now is around 150. Right. [00:36:12] Christina: Yep. It’s 150, [00:36:13] Brett: And then an upgrade is 70. I [00:36:15] Christina: 70. [00:36:17] Brett: Yeah, totally worth it. Like I am, I was so thrilled. Uh, Jean McDonald actually contacted me. She’s doing PR for them. [00:36:24] Christina: Oh, that’s awesome [00:36:26] Brett: if anyone doesn’t remember Jean McDonald, she got her start with, uh, with smile, [00:36:31] Christina: with smiles. Sure. [00:36:32] Brett: text expander and PDF pen. [00:36:35] Uh, and now she’s with micro blog, uh, and she’s, uh, on the side, she’s doing PR for, uh, indie indie devs that she loves. [00:36:44] Christina: Yeah. She also does app camp for [00:36:46] Brett: Yeah. Oh, [00:36:47] Christina: uh, uh, Gene’s amazing. yeah. [00:36:49] So that’s awesome. I didn’t know. I’m even getting like the best PR [00:36:53] Brett: Right, right. [00:36:55] Christina: like the total indie crowd, right? Like, cause if you’re going to be doing like Indy creds stuff, like she could be [00:37:00] one of the first people I would think of. [00:37:01] Right. Like if I were, if I were like trying to promote my, my, my app and I were hiring somebody, like she’d be at the top of my list. Very happy for them. Um, I was really excited to see that yesterday. I was like, yes, because you know, like we’ve lost so many good backups over the years and it’s nice to see one come back. [00:37:22] Brett: Yeah, one, one come back, not as a catalyst or electron app. [00:37:26] Christina: No, that’s the thing. Right. And, and cause, cause part of, I mean, and I’m not having anything against like a [00:37:31] Brett: I know. [00:37:32] Christina: some stuff against, but like, no, but you know what I mean? Like you do do what you need to do, but I mean like, like, uh, get tower, which is an app. [00:37:37] we love is, is, is electron I believe. [00:37:40] But, um, you know, It’s nice when it’s native, especially something like, like a different tool, um, that, that can be important depending on how big the file sizes and whatnot, but even even the native stuff aside, I’m just happy to see an app that had been abandoned and had gone through a bunch of different ownership changes. [00:37:58] I’m happy to see it, you know. [00:37:59] like [00:38:00] Have a, a real team behind it and really be like serious about not just. you know, making sure that it runs on the latest version of Mac iOS, but like, no, we’re going to do a whole, you know, over like haul of this and we’re going to like bring this into like the modern workflow. [00:38:16] Like, I love that. [00:38:17] Brett: Have you ever used command Z and get. [00:38:20] Christina: Um, probably. [00:38:22] Brett: They, they went, they jug deep into like ref log management. So any, any action you can perform, any commit, any merge, any, uh, push, well pushes a little more complex, but you can hit command Z just like you wouldn’t any Mac app and undo. Uh, get action. Uh, and it’s like, kind of, it’s like across the board, it just, it just works the way you would expect it to in any Mac app, you can hit command Z and undo your tangled, get history. [00:38:56] It’s it’s, that’s another app that [00:39:00] I would love it. If they sponsored us, they’ve, they’ve sponsored my blog and I talked to tower, uh, about sponsorship and there, once they get through, you know, cause this basically three guys, uh, and, and they’re. They’re getting through all the web development and all the app development that’s necessary for this launch. [00:39:19] And then maybe those certain thinking about sponsorships. [00:39:22] Christina: That’d be great. And, and what I love about what I love about tower is like it’s, cross-platform, which not that. [00:39:29] I like, I usually don’t use get on windows, but it’s nice for people who might, you know what I mean? Like that they have Like, a, it’s a nice cross-platform like tool. [00:39:38] Brett: Like, I’m trying to our at work. Our, um, our new blogging platform is all based on GitHub and Jekyll. And, uh, that’s great for me because that’s what I do anyway. But, you know, I’m getting Victor on board. I’m getting Aaron on board and [00:40:00] when it comes to, uh, working with, get, and, and working with pull requests and everything, get hub desktop. [00:40:08] A lot, but, um, I’m trying to get the company to buy everyone copies of tower because it’s, it’s so slick and so easy. [00:40:18] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, I, and I think that’s fair. It does do a lot in a can I kind of make the process of at least seen some of your changes and, [00:40:24] Brett: Well, especially with pull requests, it doesn’t [00:40:26] Christina: Yeah. For Puerto [00:40:27] Brett: Well, no, it doesn’t though, because you hit command R to make a new poll request. It just dumps you to the website. [00:40:33] Christina: Yeah. [00:40:34] I was going to say, um, I mean, I would say the pull request thing, I would probably just use the website rather than the desktop app, to be honest because the new pull request, um, stuff, all the changes they’ve made to that are really good, but I, but I It’s really it’s like, but like I, I would use, in most cases I would be using the, um, the website rather than. [00:40:51] The desktop app, but the desktop app is for people who like need kind of a babies versus like very basic, I think kind of, you know, access to things. I [00:41:00] think it’s, it’s not a bad, um, tool, but if you want to get more granular with it, I think you, you need, uh, either to handle it completely in your coder or even more preferably like having a separate, like dedicated client, if you’re not going to be very comfortable using the command line. [00:41:16] Oh, esoteric text editors [00:41:16] Brett: Speaking of amazing, easy to use Mac apps, you know what isn’t [00:41:22] Christina: What’s that [00:41:23] Brett: them. So, [00:41:26] Christina: this segue and know that you’re you’re so right. Like, [00:41:28] Brett: you know, what’s the opposite of all of that, [00:41:31] Christina: of that like quickly, quickly Google, how do I exit them? Right. Like, that’s like one of the most, like one of [00:41:37] Brett: that one. Autocompletes how do I, X [00:41:40] Christina: yeah, it’s like one of the top like stack overflow, like questions. [00:41:44] Brett: I’ve gotten back into it though. Um, I, uh, I, so during the, my last manic episode, I got to a point where I was tired enough that I couldn’t really, uh, [00:42:00] do anything new and creative, which, which is honestly, that’s the best part of mania is the creativity that I get from it. [00:42:07] Christina: I can see. [00:42:08] Brett: I hit a point where I just went. [00:42:11] The ideas were coming, but I didn’t have the energy to follow through on anything. And the thing that I found that was relaxing and felt like obsessive, but, but meditative was getting back into learning them and like I’m passable at VIM. Like I know how to get around. I know how to edit and save and common outlines and move around. [00:42:40] But not, not, not fluid at VIM. I’m not fluent in VIM. So I started just like doing like daily practices. Like I would pick like, okay, here’s what I want to do. And I want to do it fast and I want to be able to do it with. [00:43:00] Thinking through the letter sequence in my head, and I would just practice it to gain the muscle memory. [00:43:06] And I would repeat the yank inside word, like escape, insert, and, and. I got pretty good at it to the extent that I actually did some coding and some writing, I got a, a markdown set up in VIM. Uh, there are, there’s like a glio, uh, gives you like a full-screen word, wrapped text editor for markdown combined with like a VIM markdown from plastic boy and my own custom theme that I poured it over to them. [00:43:43] And I. It makes a pretty damn good, a markdown editing application. [00:43:50] Christina: I mean, I I’m, I’m going to point out the irony here that you are working on a markdown editing application. I’m just, I’m just having to point that out there. [00:43:59] Brett: I [00:44:00] know. Well, and now, now I go back to like sublime in vs code. And I find myself installing all of the VIM plugins because once you get good at them motion, like moving, moving around in them, it it’ll mess you up for like working in a regular tech center. [00:44:18] Christina: this is what I’ve heard, and this is why the very few times, and I’ve never gotten into them because every time I’ve tried, like I’ve almost kind of gotten there and I I’ve gotten, I’ve gotten like never gotten as into it, as you had. I’ve never been willing to give it a long enough of a chance because every time I start to kind of maybe inch that way, cause I can see the appeal, then it does become that thing where I’m like, Okay. [00:44:38] No, this is going to alter my workflow everywhere because this is going to fuck up everything I do every other place. And I just don’t have the, I just don’t have the inclination for that. I’m going to start [00:44:48] Brett: you said, like exit VIM, like, so you get this, uh, escape colon w to save your file and escape, colon WQ to save and quit. You get that in your head. You get [00:45:00] that in your muscle memory. And next time you’re in like, say BS code or, or your email and you hit escape. Colon w. Puts in escape, uh, it beeps and then puts a colon w into your editor. [00:45:15] Christina: And you’re like, no, I mean, yeah, exactly. Well, and this is what I’m saying. Like, I knew that this would happen. So it’s like, okay. And I’m not willing to go like full like Linux and are not willing to do like the full like embodiment thing. Although like you can install in a lot of apps, you know, like, like, uh, you know, key commands and like, you know, um, key bindings and stuff like vs code has been mowed and whatnot, which is great. [00:45:37] But yeah, I’m just not willing to do that. I am going to bring up something, I guess, controversial because why. So I get why like, and I, I would agree with you. I think that if I had to choose like a side of the editor wars, I mean, frankly, I would choose Pico slash nano just because that’s the easiest, but. [00:45:55] Brett: No, no. [00:45:56] Christina: I do too, but it’s on everything and I can at least very quickly [00:46:00] edit a file. Usually what I do is I just like have like a remote editing tool honestly, is what I do. But, um, I, um, just cause I can never remember what I’m doing and in getting the, the, the lion Surratt the right way, even if I know how to quit, like I just, I don’t want to do deal with it, but here, here, here’s my thing. [00:46:18] My question for you. So I think ideologically, I would be more on the VIM side. Having said that I think about you. And I think that the stuff you’re into, I also think about the shit that I’m into. Have you ever looked into org mode with, with Emacs? [00:46:32] Brett: haven’t like, so I’ve heard about the, like the whole time that I’ve been into like TaskPaper and, and mark down. And all of that org mode always comes up, but I don’t actually know anything about it. [00:46:46] Christina: Yeah. So cause like every time I like, think about like really going full nerd, like really going out there I’m like, man work mode is actually interesting. Like I’ve watched videos on it and whatnot. And like, I [00:47:00] don’t think I could live that life, but. [00:47:03] Brett: org mode life. [00:47:04] Christina: But it’s interesting, right? Cause yeah, cause people like it, they make it, their Wiki, they make it their task paper. [00:47:08] They make it like their editor. They make it like everything. And like you can just kind of work things into different workspaces in different org. Like it’s kind of bad-ass, I’m not gonna lie. Um, and I’ve always kind of thought. The market for this would be non-existent, but there would be like a way that if you could kind of have a semi gooey, you know, easier gooey kind of wrapper around org mode, like that would be kind of slick, Right. [00:47:29] Like if you could do like, like, like a, like a, you know, a Mac them thing for four, but like, that would be kind of cool. It’s interesting. Cause I’ve, I’ve read up cause I love open source drama. So sometimes I read the, the Emacs mailing list and, and it’s interesting to see kind of like the push and pull of the people who are like begging pleading the other maintainers and other contributors. [00:47:52] Maybe movie max to the, the 20th century level on the 21st century and the people who are like, no, it’s, it’s [00:48:00] perfect as it is. And we’re making no changes. And, and, and, and you have people who are like, no, but even these people who are Purists. [00:48:05] they’re like, no, I get it. I’m not saying to, to alter what makes it great, but there are new paradigms and new ways that things have happened. [00:48:13] Them, I think for his credit, like you have, you know, like, like the, the tool that you’re talking about, like you have people who’ve created different interfaces and themes and stuff to just be like, okay, you still have the weird ass, like key bindings on the shit that like, you can only use in BEM. And like you, this is how we work thing, but you can have your custom [00:48:32] Brett: there are so many good plugins [00:48:34] Christina: we’ll have something, you have these plugins, you have this other stuff. And like, and you can have like package managers and, and visual interface, things like, like Mack them and stuff that don’t require people to like live completely in their, you know, good new terminal, um, in the Emacs people, some of them really want to do that. [00:48:53] And then the other people are just like, quite you. So it’s funny to, it’s kind of [00:49:00] see them, them struggle with that. Cause I, cause there’s a part of me that’s like, Man. I think that there could be potentially, like, I think about Houston homes. when I look into org, what I’m like, man, this would be stuff that that would be completely Bret shit. I, think maybe. [00:49:15] Brett: So when I when I got into, yes, I don’t mean to change the subject too abruptly. I absolutely, I spent some time recreating NV alt in the ultra, in them using a combination of, uh, like a nerd tree style directory listing with, uh, uh, ACC as to grep through all of the notes. But anyway, When I started my most recent exploration, I set up the Nord VIM color palette. [00:49:48] Have you do you know, Nord? [00:49:50] Christina: Yes, [00:49:51] Brett: Uh, they, they have, they have like a VIM mode for Nord. It’s beautiful. And I got into it, but I really, I work with [00:50:00] a light theme in my ID. I know I’m a weirdo, but I like light themes. And I have this one that I made called lucky charm. That it looks like a bowl of lucky charms at like the, when you get to the bottom and the milk is all stained, a little bit yellow, and you’ve got just like random marshmallows floating in the, in the milk. [00:50:24] That was the inspiration for lucky charms. The, the theme that I have it for. Uh, text mate and vs code and sublime. And now I have published a VIM version of it that if anyone thinks, oh, you know what, I like light themes, and I might want to try something new have at it. If, if you have additions comments, et cetera, go ahead. [00:50:54] If your comment is light theme stuck, you, you can, you can dev [00:51:00] null that that’s fine, [00:51:02] Christina: It is your theme as the sun, you’re getting. [00:51:04] Brett: Yes, it is on my GitHub. Uh, I will link it. Uh, there are screenshots. If you’re on my GitHub right now, you can see what I’m talking about, but, uh, you know, what else I got into at the same time [00:51:18] Christina: What is that? [00:51:19] Brett: sucks. Like I have struggled to care about Teamworks for a long time. [00:51:26] Uh, but it is as if, cause I was doing a lot of SSH between multiple machines. once you get like T set up with resurrection and, and uh, session restore, It’s kind of amazing that you can like SS I actually have it. So when I SSH into my Mac book pro from my Mac mini, it automatically triggers a T muck session that gives me basically I can terminate my SSH session at any time. [00:51:58] Nothing dies. [00:52:00] None of the processes I have running die. And the next time I SSH N it just resumed the session and that alone. Pretty freaking cool. I got into all of the tech selection and everything stuff, but [00:52:14] Christina: now, now, do you use I term with this or do you use to actually, [00:52:17] Brett: what? No. Okay. So yes, I use, I turn, but I don’t use, I terms T monks mode. [00:52:24] Christina: what I, was going to ask. [00:52:25] Brett: I I don’t get why I would want, I terms team mux mode. Like I actually love. T mux. Uh, I term like make, I term has a Teamworks mode that makes T invisible. So it’s, it’s creating teamwork sessions and Teamworks pains, but representing them as windows and tabs. [00:52:47] And I just. I don’t know. I don’t get the benefit of that versus, uh, well, I guess, because I, I like to run everything on remote [00:53:00] servers. Teamworks is most useful to me when I’m on another machine via SSH. [00:53:06] Christina: Right, right. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. No, I was just, I was just curious. Yeah. I was good to have. [00:53:12] Brett: on. [00:53:13] Oh, Windows [00:53:13] Christina: Well, no, cause that was on. [00:53:14] our list, you know, I love I term. Um, and I’m on like, um, I’m really close with the windows terminal team. And like that was one of their inspirations for windows terminal, [00:53:22] Brett: I should hope so. [00:53:23] Christina: well, I mean, but I mean, I think that’s like awesome that it was, cause that was like a pretty skunkworks project. [00:53:28] That’s now built into windows, like proper, like it’s it’s now with windows 11, like it’s built in [00:53:33] Brett: Oh, is it really? [00:53:34] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:34] Brett: That’s cool. [00:53:35] Christina: Um, and, um, uh, uh, so it was the, when it was packaged manager, um, which is basically Homebrew, um, for, uh, for windows, um, and. [00:53:47] Brett: know that, man, maybe I got to give windows another shot. [00:53:51] Christina: I mean, I’m not saying like, there are things that would annoy you, but I think that there are a lot of things, especially with, with, with WSL too. And, and, uh, when it was terminal [00:54:00] and when get, which is the windows package manager, also, you would love power toys, which is open source. It’s run by Microsoft, but like community contributes to it, but it’s like they, uh, created, they recreated, uh, uh, basically, um, like a alpha. [00:54:12] Um, so that like you can do, um, like when key space, um, or, or, uh, Yeah. [00:54:18] exactly. To search stuff. That was actually, I helped with that a little bit, at least with the guy who’s the PM on that I like gave him some feedback. There were some other like, um, like tiling manager, extras and stuff. So this is like a, uh, open source project. [00:54:32] That’s like adding power user features to windows and it’s all developed in the open. It’s pretty, bad-ass, there’s a lot of like stuff that they’re doing with. I think you would like, and I, I would, I would like you to play with, at some point, I don’t like, like you, like, you’re never like me. You’re never gonna like, be like somebody who’s gonna be swayed, like full time away. [00:54:50] But I have to say like, it’s fun to see. [00:54:52] Brett: I could be intrigued by, [00:54:54] Christina: But it’s, it’s nice to see what’s happening other places. And it certainly makes, it makes me using windows like a lot [00:55:00] better. And since gaming on windows is so much better and like, I dunno, I just like playing with other operating systems. I like playing with Lennox, sisters too. [00:55:07] It’s just fun. But, um, it’s just, it’s funny because in some ways I feel like windows is going in the direction of trying to be more like what Mac west used to. Whereas maca west is going in the direction, you know, like iOS, which for people like you and I isn’t always the best thing. [00:55:25] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, I’ll give it a shot. I it’s, I haven’t, I haven’t touched last time I loaded up windows was, I guess I loaded windows 10. [00:55:38] Christina: Yeah. But there were a number of different iterations with windows 10. [00:55:40] like when it was 11, just came out and it’s, It’s good. But some of the stuff that’s like built in, like I said, Straight out of the box, WSL, um, is, uh, makes it easier to enable windows terminal out of the box. Like the windows package manager out of the [00:55:52] Brett: I could, I have parallels. I could load up. I could load it up in parallel. [00:55:56] Christina: yeah. You can load them of parallels. If you, if you want to register it, then you need to pay for a [00:56:00] license, but you, but you might have a friend who can get you a discount. [00:56:04] Brett: I wonder where I would find a friend like [00:56:06] Christina: I’m just saying, you know, might be able to get, might be able to get you a license for $40. All I’m saying. Um, uh, and if you have a windows 10 license or when it was seven or eight licensed, that. [00:56:16] can actually be used with windows 11, but, [00:56:18] Brett: I haven’t had a legit windows license since windows 95 and then 90. What was [00:56:23] Christina: probably, yeah, probably 98 I was going to say I was going to say we all yet, although we did all share that one XP? [00:56:29] um, uh, key that [00:56:31] Brett: The one, the one key. [00:56:34] Christina: Well, no, it was, it was like, it was like a pre-release version. I’ll never forget because I was a freshman year in college and, um, Everybody’s computers came pre-loaded with windows, Emmy on it. [00:56:44] And then like right after college started was when like the XP gold master dropped. And so people would get the free upgrade, but it would take like months and like Disney was fucking terrible. So I had a copy that somebody had downloaded with that, like QI pro. Part of the reason, part of how I [00:57:00] made friends, like freshman years I’d go around with the dorms and a, I would install people’s network cards because people didn’t realize they needed like a nit card, you know, for their, uh, computer. [00:57:09] And they have like a modem and I’m like, no, you need a network card. And they’re like, how do I open This Hi, I’m, I’m, I’m new in the dorms. Like I’m, I’m, you know, your neighbor. Um, and then I also install like windows XP on people’s computers. So I made friends like with everybody, like in that building, uh, August of 2001. [00:57:33] Um, so yeah, but everybody shared [00:57:36] Brett: was a journey. [00:57:38] Christina: was a journey. [00:57:39] Brett: Man let’s recap. We got, we got the Ted lasso, we got the Facebook, we got a couple of sponsors in [00:57:47] Christina: We got some great sponsors and we talked about some great Mac apps, [00:57:50] Brett: indie Mac apps. Uh, and then like w w w esoteric like Unix editors. And then we got, we got all the way to [00:58:00] windows. [00:58:01] Christina: I know shit, [00:58:02] Brett: you and me got to window. [00:58:04] Christina: we got to windows honestly, and like kind of good conversation about it. Like honestly, we’re like, this is some good shit, man. Like This is, a very classic, very good Overtired. [00:58:13] Brett: This is, this is the epitome. Like you can’t plan a show like this. [00:58:19] Christina: No, which, which is funny. Cause we had like our list, but like this is like such like a classic show of us, you know? [00:58:25] Brett: Um, Oh, I should mention, I think, I think the, uh, listener survey is still, I still, you can still add entries to it with comments and criticisms and, uh, demographic information that will help us bring you. Better sponsors and make the show better. So check the show notes, follow the link, take a, take five minutes and let us know, uh, who you are and it can be anonymous, but let us know, uh, who you are in a demographic sense and what you like about the [00:59:00] show, what you don’t like. [00:59:01] And, uh, and w we will take your feedback very seriously. And, uh, and, and we love you all. [00:59:08] Christina: We love you. [00:59:10] Brett: All right. Well, Christina, [00:59:13] Christina: get some sleep bread.

From delightful television to dystopian tech, Ashley Esqueda fills in for Christina and helps Brett cover the Overtired gamut. Sponsor Essential Protein from Ritual, our favorite multivitamin maker. Shake things up with a protein drink that will not only satisfy, it will even fill in nutrient gaps in your diet. Overtired listeners get 10% off their first 3 months. Head to ritual.com/OVERTIRED to shake up your ritual today. Listener Survey Please help us improve the show by taking a minute to fill out a listener survey. If you do, you could win a $50 Amazon gift card, in addition to the feeling of accomplishment you’ll have for actually finishing something today. Because it’s been one of those days, hasn’t it? Show Links Sex Education Midnight Mass The Sinner Elisha Henig The Book of Accidents, Chuck Wendig Mandy Rickrolling Ted Lasso Muppet Babies Rocket to the Stars Mariachi El Bronx Amazon Astro Surveillance Robot Ring Always Home Cam Drone Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 256 [00:00:00] Brett: Welcome to Overtired. I am here with our favorite guest host, actually a Skedda, uh, Christina is a little bit out this week. So how are you Ashley? [00:00:15] Ashley: she’s uh, she’s out playing the squid game. Christina’s playing this game? [00:00:19] Brett: Isn’t that? That’s a, that’s a new show, right? [00:00:22] Ashley: It is. It’s. [00:00:23] Brett: like a lot of murder involved. [00:00:25] Ashley: Uh, let’s call it Korean hunger games, times infinity. It’s next level. Good. You got to watch it [00:00:34] Brett: Okay. [00:00:35] Ashley: level. Good. [00:00:36] Brett: Okay. I don’t think I’ll be able to talk my partner into watching that one with me, but I, uh, [00:00:42] Ashley: Just watch it. [00:00:43] Brett: yeah, I could find some afternoon time. You know, my busy day job gives me an hour here and there. I can squeeze in some personal TV time. [00:00:54] Ashley: Let’s all hope. Christina comes back from squid game in one piece. That’s all I’m going to say about it. [00:01:00] [00:01:00] Brett: She, I think she missed, I think she missed rocket this week too. [00:01:05] Ashley: but see, I’d see squid game series. [00:01:07] Brett: Pretty serious. Um, yeah. So how have you been at. [00:01:12] Ashley: You know, uh, I really like coming on this show because I always like to say, I feel Overtired just all the time. So, um, this is very appropriate content for me to come and participate in. Uh, but overall good. It’s spooky season. October 1st is here, like, woo it’s October. Now. Love that big fan. [00:01:32] Brett: Every year, every year, I plan to make some crazy, like, like combine a bunch of home automation equipment and make some really cool, like automated trick or treat thing. That’ll like give the kids a thrill and I never get around to it. [00:01:48] Ashley: you have. So you’re an ideas, man, but like the execution, just not there. [00:01:51] Brett: and I have a friend who owns a toy store and is excellent at like robotics. And he does like all [00:02:00] kinds of puppetry and everything. And he could, he, he, The two of us together could make some amazing stuff and I, I never pick up the [00:02:07] Ashley: available to you, sir are infinite. This, this is I’m. I’m jealous. I got a 12 foot skeleton for Halloween. I, that was my, I have one of the home Depot, 12 foot skeletons. I was [00:02:20] Brett: what’s that a skeleton of what kind of giant leaves? A 12 foot skeleton [00:02:25] Ashley: I mean, I don’t really know, but does it matter? He’s just, he’s beautiful. [00:02:30] Brett: Are we talking about Nephilim? [00:02:31] Ashley: Yeah, sure. Why not? [00:02:33] Brett: Did you [00:02:34] Ashley: Maybe like a younger, giant, right? [00:02:36] Like a, like a, like a, like a pre pubescent, giant child [00:02:42] Brett: Did you know that biblical giants were supposedly the offspring of angels in humans. [00:02:49] Ashley: I had. I feel like I’ve read that somewhere a long time ago. [00:02:54] Brett: Also the dimensions given for Goliath and the Bible would be [00:03:00] physically incapable of supporting a structural skeleton. Just in case you wanted to get like [00:03:06] Ashley: insight [00:03:07] Brett: theological debate out of [00:03:08] this? Well, it’s like a human skeleton can only get so large before it buckles under its own [00:03:14] Ashley: It’s own weight. Right, right, right. [00:03:16] Brett: And the dimensions that gave for Goliath would not have been physically possible. [00:03:22] Ashley: Adamantium [00:03:23] Brett: Unlike the rest of the Bible, which really stands up to scrutiny. [00:03:27] Ashley: it really, you know what? That’s true. I will say this. Okay. Well, let me pause it a theory here. Let’s just, let’s just mix it in with pop culture. What if Goliath was a mutant? I’m just putting that up. [00:03:40] Brett: W all right now, everything is feasible. You’ve you’ve really, uh, you’ve really tied a ball on that [00:03:47] Ashley: If you incorporate the larger Marvel comic universe into the Bible, it totally makes sense. [00:03:55] Brett: I just watched, okay, so here here’s how my brain works. [00:04:00] We talked about giants. Then we talked about Marvel universe. My brain went to Deadpool and then I leaped to the Hitman’s bodyguard. [00:04:10] Ashley: The Hitman’s bodyguard. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Well, that’s a Ryan [00:04:14] Brett: Yeah, it’s a right. [00:04:15] Ashley: run. I got, I got, [00:04:17] Brett: it wasn’t a super long walk. It was a bit of a walk, but I got. [00:04:21] there. This is very different, than doing a show with just you and Christina, like [00:04:25] Ashley: very different, [00:04:26] Brett: You’re getting, you’re going to be other half of Overtired. [00:04:29] Ashley: which is I like, I love it. I love doing, I like I could, I could do this all day. I’ll Cal captain American. I, I absolutely love talking to both of you. It’s the. [00:04:37] Brett: Did you ever see the Hitman’s bodyguard? [00:04:39] Ashley: I saw some of it, uh, like just, I think it was like on my TV. Like I wasn’t really paying attention. It seems kind of fun. [00:04:48] Like, it seems kind of fun, but I, I [00:04:50] Brett: It seems like it should be kind of. [00:04:52] Ashley: I don’t have time [00:04:54] Brett: It was not at all. Interesting. [00:04:57] Ashley: Yeah. See, that’s the thing I have to be super [00:05:00] invested in it now because I’ve got a two-year-old. So I literally have to really, uh, pick and choose the content that I am consuming. I can’t binge watch everything now. [00:05:11] And it’s just like, I just have to, I got to pare it down. I have to, I have to accept that I’m not going to see everything and that’s fine. Like I’m getting to that point where I’m, I’m accepting my grief. Uh, you know, the, the Kubler Ross stages of grief, I’ve finally reached acceptance on the fact that I will not see every show that has ever been made. [00:05:34] Brett: But also do you really care? [00:05:36] Ashley: No, [00:05:38] Brett: Isn’t it. There’s not a lot of [00:05:39] Ashley: I thought I [00:05:40] Brett: it. I think he just hit a point in your life where you just don’t care anymore. [00:05:43] Ashley: I feel like there’s about MMOs. Like everyone’s playing new world right now on. And I, I used to love MMOs. Like I said, I met my husband playing star wars galaxies, and I played tons of world of Warcraft when raffle Lich king was out. And my husband’s still like, he’ll [00:06:00] pick one game and get really into it. [00:06:02] And like, that’s the one game he plays in. I’ve got to play everything. Like I, again, it’s like content thing. I’m like trying really hard to accept. I’m not going to get to everything, but I can at least pick and choose the things that interest me. So I might be playing, you know, I might be playing resident evil village and then I’m playing death loop and now I’m playing ratchet and clank. [00:06:24] Then I’m playing return all like, there is a, I like to have a variety. I don’t like to just like zero in on one property and go in hard on. I like to have kind of a broad awareness of sort of the, the content landscape, whether it’s games or TV or movies. [00:06:41] Brett: So, what are you watching? [00:06:44] Ashley: Uh, we just started watching midnight mass last night. [00:06:47] Brett: What is [00:06:48] Ashley: uh, so if you are familiar with the haunting of hill house or blind manner, [00:06:55] Brett: So, so whore. This is all. [00:06:57] Ashley: scary, spooky, um, [00:06:59] Brett: haven’t, haven’t [00:07:00] done horror for a while. [00:07:01] Ashley: Thriller nourish sort of thriller kind of horror. Uh, this is a S another Mike Flanagan series. Um, and, uh, like some, some good, really good actors are in it. [00:07:12] Raho Cooley’s in it, who was on ISO MB and he’s been another, he was Owen on blind manner. Um, he’s awesome. And. [00:07:20] Brett: ISO combi. [00:07:21] Ashley: Yeah. So he he’s in the show. He’s like the, the it’s about it’s really interesting. Like the first episode is sort of sets up, obviously like the world of this island, where there’s very few people that live on it and there’s already weird stuff going on, which I appreciate because it’s only seven episodes. [00:07:39] This is like a binge, this is a very bingeable limited series. Like that’s the thing I always like about Mike Flanagan. Shows on Netflix is that they’re, they’re extremely bingeable. You, you want to get through them to like solve the mystery, unravel the mystery, find out what’s going on, get some jump scares in, you know, things like that. [00:07:57] But, um, but it is very good. It’s [00:08:00] so far it has set up the world really well. And, um, and you know, that there’s like, There are some, you know, there’s some weird stuff going on. And then there’s a couple of inciting incidents that sort of are like, Ooh, okay. Yeah, that’s really creepy. Or, Ooh, God, that’s gross or weird. [00:08:16] So, um, but, but very good so far. So we’re looking forward to that. I’m also watching Ted lasso, [00:08:21] Brett: Of course. [00:08:22] Ashley: but who isn’t watching Ted [00:08:23] Brett: We’re G we actually were going to dedicate a segment to Ted lasso. [00:08:27] um, in just a moment, like you’re going to be here for it. You’re going to be a part of this, but I got to tell you first along the lines of creepy and somewhat disturbing, uh, Elle and I have been watching the center. Have you seen any of the center? [00:08:42] Ashley: I haven’t and I have seen, uh, I’ve seen references to it and also memes up from it on Twitter, in my timeline, but I don’t understand what they mean. [00:08:53] Brett: Well, I got into it because I wanted to see what Jessica Biel was up to in season one. And it was, it was [00:09:00] excellent. Loved it. And then it’s like true detective where the next season is almost an entirely new cast, except for bill Pullman. Like all new cast, all new, uh, plot arc, everything. Uh, a reset if you will. [00:09:15] Um, which, which I kind of, I took a break after season one and then we started season two, maybe two weeks ago and we just finished it and we’re getting ready to start season three, which I’m excited about. Cause it’s got Matt bomber from a white collar in [00:09:32] Ashley: Oh, yeah. I love that. [00:09:34] Brett: and Chuck, we can’t forget Chuck, but, um, but season two has this kid, Uh, played by Alicia, Henry. [00:09:43] And he is hands down the best child actor I have seen in years, but like maybe ever he he’s portrayal of a very neurotic, uh, murder capable [00:10:00] 13 year old boy is outstanding. It’s amazing [00:10:05] Ashley: I’m that sounds right up my alley. [00:10:08] Brett: murder, murder, capable That I feel like that’s. [00:10:11] Ashley: Murder capable children are very interesting to me in horror tropes. Like I, I enjoy I’m actually I’m reading, um, the book of accidents by Chuck Wendig. I just started that and there is a murder capable child in the beginning of that book. So, uh, good. That’s a nice, uh, it’s a nice it pairs. [00:10:27] Well pairs, well, [00:10:29] Brett: I should be taking notes here for the, uh, for the show notes. We talked about midnight mass. [00:10:33] Ashley: midnight mass with them on Netflix. [00:10:35] Brett: what is this book that I should check out? [00:10:37] Ashley: It’s it is called the book of accidents. And it’s by Chuck Wendig w E N D I G. [00:10:45] Brett: Perfect. [00:10:46] Ashley: It’s a little, it’s a good, it’s a good, um, it’s a good Halloween read is a, so far anyway. I haven’t, I don’t know how it ends yet, but I’ve heard very good things from so many of my friends that I’m like, okay, I got it. [00:10:58] Brett: I have friends who are into [00:11:00] horror of all kinds. And I constantly watch their recommendations because I have a curiosity about it, but I haven’t truly been like, I haven’t enjoyed being scared by a movie since like, Maybe the ring, [00:11:18] Ashley: Yeah. [00:11:18] Brett: but I also haven’t given it a lot of opportunities. I CA what was that super weird one with Nicholas cage, [00:11:25] Ashley: Oh, [00:11:26] Brett: Mandy, that one’s been on my list for a long time. [00:11:30] Ashley: That’s a, that’s a ride. Let me tell you like maybe less horror than it is just like absolutely bonkers. Like that movie is just it’s it’s very, I mean, it’s very Nicholas cage. I don’t even know what to say about it beyond that. I like, I have found that, um, you know, how we have this sort of. Uh, so after scream came out, there was this like big push towards like horror comedy, like mixing horror and comedy, the sort of pop culture horror. [00:11:59] And [00:12:00] then, and then we had like the som movies come out and hostel around the same time. And then we had sort of like torture porn, uh, horror movie. It feels like right now, the trend is sort of, and I think it’s sort of tapering off finally, but, um, but it feels like the trend for a long time has been, um, these sort of like. [00:12:23] Uh, the concept of like building dread, right? So it’s like a less of that sort of like, you know, there are slasher movies out there and there are, you know, that sort of like classic horror that have, that have been released in the last few years. But it feels like when you see things like, for example, like hereditarian Midsummer, um, and, and a lot of the, kind of more recent horror, it’s like very rooted in like psychological dread where it’s just like, everything is meant to make. [00:12:52] Super uneasy the entire movie. And it’s just like a constantly, um, [00:13:00] vibrating string on a cello, right. It’s just like a constant undertone of like dread that is going to happen. And so I, I’m really curious to see what the next sort of horror movie phase is or fad is. Um, but I really liked that type of horror. [00:13:18] So I. I’m fully supportive of movies. Like I loved Midsummer. It was just so horrific. And, and I really like horror movies that are like very brightly colored because it always just feels so, um, unsettling that it should, this, these horrific things are happening and these like bright, beautiful places. [00:13:40] Brett: Yeah. All right. I, yeah, I’m going to get it. I got into the center enough, so I know I’m not averse to like dark. There’s something about the suspense that like I’m stressed enough in real life, [00:13:56] Ashley: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, [00:13:57] Brett: but then there’s a place for like [00:14:00] taking control of your anxiety to some extent. [00:14:03] Ashley: yeah. That’s a really good point, [00:14:05] Brett: Yeah. Anyway, uh, do you want to hear about a sponsor? [00:14:09] Ashley: please. [00:14:10] Brett: So I always feel bad when we have guests on making them sit through sponsors, but it’s, it’s how the show survives. [00:14:20] Ashley: All right. You don’t have to feel bad about it at all. I think it’s wonderful that you have sponsors who who’s sponsoring Overtired. [00:14:27] Brett: Today, uh, we’re sponsored by ritual protein because as you know, protein powders can feel intimidating with all that, no pain, no gain stuff that gets associated with them. But the truth is that deep down as in like cellular level deep, we all need protein and it’s about more than just muscles. So really. [00:14:46] Team of scientists, re-imagined protein from the ground up and from the inside, out from how it’s made to who it’s for the result is a delicious plant-based protein offered in three premium formulations for distinct life stages and unique [00:15:00] nutrient needs all made with the same high standards approach and commitment to traceability that ritual is known for. [00:15:06] So whether you’re doing reps or you’re more into dog walks, ritual is introducing essential protein here to shake things. I haven’t had as much time as I would like to have to cook lately. Uh, and I make dinner most nights, but for lunch, that’s another story. And I’ve been using ritual as a meal replacement for my lunches, which gives me all the protein and nutrition that I need. [00:15:29] So I don’t feel hungry all afternoon and I still have time to enjoy my lunch break. And now that I’m actually on the clock with like a zoom meeting schedule, that’s a lifesaver. Ritual protein is for tomorrow. As much as today, it’s made with nutrients to support bones, brains, and muscles and help maintain muscle mass as you age. [00:15:48] Uh, central protein comes in clean plant-based formulas specifically, specifically created to support nutrient needs of different life stages like 18 plus pregnancy and postpartum and [00:16:00] 50 plus 20. Get 20 grams of pea protein, political complete amino acid profile made with a central coing to help fill common dietary gaps. [00:16:10] In terms of standards, rituals, peas are sustainably grown and regenerativity farmed in the. 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[00:17:15] Brett: So back in like 2006, 2008, depending on like, Uh, who, whose story you, you read? Um, four Chan was the origin of something called Rick rolling. And, uh, it, it re it reluctantly. Uh, Rick Astley, reluctantly allowed it to revive his career. Uh, I should say he had started touring at about the same time and like, uh, unrelated. but he, he eventually accepted that this, this meme, the site. Okay. For anyone who doesn’t know, it’s basically when you click a link that you think is going to go one place and instead [00:18:00] it goes to never going to give you up by Rick Astley. [00:18:03] Ashley: Yeah, pretty simple. [00:18:05] Brett: it is, and it is, I think it may be like the, the meme with the longest life. [00:18:15] Ashley: I think you might be right. This is like, I mean, it’s, I don’t, I can’t think of anything that has lasted this long, at least in the way of like linking to a video or like just in the cause. Like, I mean, there are memes that like, we still see from a long time ago, but it’s not the same. [00:18:34] Brett: right. Yeah, no, [00:18:35] Ashley: still very much in the forefront of like pop culture. [00:18:40] Like it’s, it’s a, it’s still a weirdly T relevant meme. Like it, it, it has not, there was a time where it felt a little stale and it kind of went away for a minute and then somebody brought it back and it was like, oh yeah, everybody really likes this. And it’s dumb and funny. [00:18:55] Brett: I, I got to a point where you can just say the word, Rick roll [00:19:00] to me, and the song gets stuck in my head. I get like, Metta, Metta. [00:19:04] Ashley: I immediately hear the beat. [00:19:06] Brett: Yeah. [00:19:07] So this, this over the last 15 years, like this has just been kind of a constant undercurrent on the internet. And then last week’s Ted lasso came out and I feel like it all came to a climax in a funeral scene where the main what’s Her name? [00:19:30] Um, Rebecca. Rebecca, Rick rolls a funeral [00:19:37] Ashley: Her dad’s funeral. [00:19:39] Brett: amazing, [00:19:40] Ashley: It’s pretty incredible. And she doesn’t do it on purpose. Like there’s a story. Well, like there’s a story behind why she sings that, like she’s not just coming in to throw a chaos bomb into the funeral proceedings. Like they give her a good character, backstory reason to sing that song at a funeral, but it [00:20:00] is pretty hilarious. [00:20:02] Um, and, uh, my, I think my favorite. Thing that I saw after that episode went live was, um, it, I think it was Rick, Rick Astley himself, uh, ended up tweeting to Hannah wadding, M um, and said, where is it? Uh, literally like put up this one minute long video. Cause he, I guess didn’t know like how. The song was going to be used or in what context, like, I think, you know, they just licensed it. [00:20:35] Right. And so they don’t necessarily go directly to the artists for that. They would just go to your, you know, your label. And so he posted this video. It’s like a minute long. It’s honest. And he’s just like blown away at how it was used. He just loved it. He’s like, you know, very complimentary, all this stuff is just, it’s really cute. [00:20:53] Um, just so, just so lovely and pure, just like everything else that Ted lasso was [00:21:00] doing. Um, And it’s just, it’s so nice. And, uh, and she is, she she’s totally flips out, um, Hannah wadding him, um, which is just so funny to me, like, she’s just like, oh my God. Like for gasoline, I love this is so great. Um, so yeah, it’s, it’s absolutely fantastic. [00:21:20] And the way that they sort of incorporate into the show, it’s, it’s really lovely. Like Ted lasso is the kind of show where I watch it and I’m just. You know that moment in Ratatouille where Anton ego takes a bite of the Ratatouille later, like begrudgingly is like eating it up because he’s so furious that it’s so good. [00:21:41] Brett: Um, I’m going to admit, I’ve never seen Ratatouille, but I, I can. I can, I can, uh, I can envision this. [00:21:47] Ashley: Yeah, but that is how I feel. Every time I should have last time, I was just like begrudgingly watching it with so much joy because there I’m just like, oh, these writers, like these. These bastards, like, they’re so good at this. Like, [00:22:00] I I’m, I’m angry at how talented I’m insulted at how talented these people are. [00:22:04] It’s offensive. Like, I I’m, it’s so weird. It’s like that feeling where you’re just like, it’s not jealousy. You’re just like, oh, this is so good. Like I’m, I’m furious at how good this is. [00:22:14] Brett: Yes that I can totally relate to. It is. [00:22:17] I mean, I watch a lot of TV. I consider myself a pretty good judge of, of writing and production and set design and acting like I’ve. I’ve seen enough to, to know what’s good. And Ted lasso constantly stands head and shoulders above some of the best TV. [00:22:40] Ashley: Yeah, it’s really good. [00:22:43] Brett: Outstanding. Yeah. Ha have you listened to much other stuff from Rick Astley? [00:22:49] Ashley: Uh, no, not particularly like, I I’m sure I’ve heard other stuff. [00:22:54] Brett: I’m not even sure I have. I, all I know is people keep telling me, oh, he’s really a very talented [00:23:00] musician. You should hear his other stuff. And I just haven’t gotten around to actually following up on that yet. [00:23:05] Ashley: I haven’t either. I don’t have a lot of like, so, so the kid is like really into records, like. I’m not complaining my child. My child is two and a half years old almost. And he literally loves vinyl records on a record player. He will not, he gets mad when I try to play the exact same albums on our Sonos. [00:23:28] No. Well, if he wants the record player, [00:23:31] Brett: What a snob. [00:23:33] Ashley: he’s such a little snob [00:23:36] Brett: When I [00:23:37] Ashley: but too, but, but the good news is, is they don’t really make a lot of. Kids toddler like baby shark stuff [00:23:45] Brett: sure. [00:23:46] Ashley: So all he listens to is like he, this kid will specifically ask by name for. Musicians like the black Pumas. And he wants sabotage by the Beastie boys. [00:23:59] He [00:24:00] wants, you know, JD MacPherson, like he wants a Dolly Parton. He says, play islands in the stream. And I’m just like, okay, like, sure. Yeah, no problem. But it’s like, like I, this is my whole music listening life right now because like he gets into these. He gets into these routines where he wants to hear a song over and over and over again until he’s over it. [00:24:25] And so right now it’s like, there’s like four songs. It’s like sabotage by the Beastie boys, which look no complaining about that. Uh, but the four songs that are in my rotation right now are sabotaged by the Beastie boys. Let the good times roll by JD MacPherson, uh, nine to five by Dolly Parton and monkey wrench by the foo fighters. [00:24:44] Brett: That’s not a bad lineup. Like [00:24:46] Ashley: Pretty good lineup. He has good taste, actually. I’m impressed [00:24:50] Brett: When I was a kid. [00:24:51] Ashley: teaching him. Well, [00:24:51] Brett: had a play school record player, like a suitcase record player. [00:24:56] Ashley: that. He has that little Fisher price [00:24:58] Brett: Yeah, maybe that’s what it [00:24:59] Ashley: [00:25:00] one. that’s a suitcase. That’s a real record player, but [00:25:02] Brett: Well, this one could only play seven inches. [00:25:05] Ashley: yeah. See, those ones are like the classic they’re real. They plug in. They like, they play seven inch vinyl. Like he has the one that’s like the one for toddlers where it’s like little plastic records that play like, uh, like almost like music box songs. [00:25:20] And it comes with five little plastic records and he loves that thing. [00:25:24] Brett: No, like [00:25:24] Ashley: it with him every. [00:25:25] Brett: for me, and I’m, I’m older than you. So you, you may or may not remember, but there was a time when, uh, magazines and even cereal boxes would have flimsy vinyl, uh, pages that you could cut a record out of and play it on a seven inch record player. [00:25:45] Ashley: Oh, my God really. [00:25:47] Brett: Yeah. And like, cause I mean, they would be the thickness of just like a, a heavier magazine page. [00:25:55] Uh, just, just vinyl. [00:25:57] Ashley: I’ve never heard of such a. [00:25:58] Brett: Yeah. [00:25:59] And you could [00:26:00] like, you could get your favorite single as the back page of a magazine. And a, and that was my, we weren’t allowed to listen to rock and roll in my house, but I had, I had the Muppet babies, rocket to the moon was my first rock and roll record. And from the second I heard that four, four. [00:26:22] Ashley: Yeah. [00:26:23] Brett: I was, I was in and I never, I never stopped listening to rock and roll after that. But the Muppet babies on a seven inch record on a play school record player, that’s like, that’s how I got into music. [00:26:37] Ashley: Wow. That’s amazing. Okay. So when I was a kid, it was cassette tapes. So I had this thing and I have looked for this thing and I don’t even know I’ve looked for what it’s called. I can’t find it anywhere. I used to have this thing that looked like a walk. Sort of, but it played singles on miniature cassette [00:27:00] tapes, like miniature cassette tapes. [00:27:03] And it, and I remember having Debbie Gibson and one side was shake your love. And the other side was, oh my God, whatever the other hit that she had on that shake your love album. Yeah. Something like that. It was like, One of those songs. And so is on the same album, but it was like the two singles from that album was one side and the other. [00:27:27] And then I think the other one I had was new kids on the block. It was like the right stuff and hanging tough. Like those are the two that I had and I was like, obsessed with that little cassette tape thing. Every time we went to toys R us, I would immediately go to that aisle where that thing was. And I would look and see if there were new cassettes. [00:27:48] But like, that was like the thing that I remember specifically, like, I, I loved that thing so much when I was a kid, I was probably probably like eight. I was five, like eight ish, like right in there, [00:28:00] like probably seven, seven to nine, between seven and nine. And it just like, it was my favorite thing. I loved it so much. [00:28:06] And, um, and my mom was really into like pop music. So I was listening to like, when I was a kid, it was like a lot of Madonna, like all the top 40 stuff in like the eighties. [00:28:16] Brett: My mom was into Elvis and Peter Paul and Mary, and my dad only listen to classical music. Everything else was too new. [00:28:27] Ashley: Yeah. See, I was around my grandparents a lot cause we lived on their property and so it was like, my mom was really into pop music. My grandpa was really into Elvis, so we, I got a lot big Elvis, a big Elvis fan. And then, um, and then also listen to like a ton of like, sort of. I guess now you would kind of refer to it as it wasn’t like seventies yacht rock. [00:28:50] It was like that eighties sort of yacht rock, whereas like Linda Ronstadt and like car, like a Richard Marx, um, that sort of [00:29:00] like, uh, Gloria Estefan, like, you know, that sort of like wheelhouse or is like, sort of for older contemporary, like. contemporary of the eighties. Like I listened to a lot of that on the radio. [00:29:13] So, but, um, but yeah, that was like a lot of, uh, and then I listened to a lot of, um, my grandpa’s Spanish. So I listened to a lot of mariachi music and like cumbia music, which was. [00:29:25] Brett: enjoy some mariachi. [00:29:26] Ashley: I still love it. There’s a band called mariachi L Bronx, which is the mariachi version of El Bronx. Um, and they have an album. I believe it’s two. [00:29:37] The name of album is too. And it’s, um, or maybe it’s three cause they just, they just number them. Uh, but it’s, it has the, the opening track of that album is 48 roses. And I can only describe it as mariachi music meets sublime. And it’s literally one of the best that album slapped so hard. [00:30:00] I can’t recommend enough. [00:30:01] It’s so good. [00:30:02] Brett: You want to know what TV show is blowing me away with soundtrack right now? Sex education. [00:30:09] Ashley: tell me about this show because I okay. Again, a show that I have seen many people talk about in my timeline, but I have not gotten to it yet. What is the show about. [00:30:19] Brett: So it’s, it’s a story about schoolers in England, uh, and kind of their. Uh, it’s about learning about sex. It’s about puberty. It’s about, um, uh, adventures and misadventures in and sexuality and Scully from the X-Files Gillian Anderson. Uh, like a mother who is also a, a sex expert, a sex Burch, if you will. Um, and like she’s raising a boy who is very awkward, but in the first season he becomes like the school’s sex [00:31:00] advice guru, uh, cause he grew up around. [00:31:04] You know, very smart, uh, sex, sex messaging. And, uh, he’s able to turn a very Scholastic, completely lacking and worldly experience, but a very Scholastic, uh, understanding of sex and sexuality and all of the problems that teenagers are going through. And he likes, sets up shop in a. Uh, in and out, uh, uh, lavatory, like, uh, it’s uh, the whole building is just like showers and toilets and it’s abandoned and he sets up and he sits in one stall and people come in and sit in the other stall and do like a confessional style. [00:31:41] Like here’s the sex problem I’m having. And he, and he does a great job and he solves a bunch of problems and that season one, and now we’re on season two or season three. I’ve lost track. Oh. Like, but the current season is. As, as always, soundtrack is amazing. The characters are amazing. [00:32:00] It’s it’s really, it’s fun. [00:32:03] Ashley: That’s that is a very Hardy endorsement. And so I’m going to have to add that to my watch list. [00:32:09] Brett: Uh, did you see big mouth? [00:32:12] Ashley: I’ve seen someone. [00:32:13] Brett: it’s like a lot less crude version. It tackles the same kind of topics that big mouth tackles, but it does it in a lot more dignified way. I love big mouth. Don’t get me wrong. I thought that Joe [00:32:25] Ashley: specific show for a specific [00:32:27] Brett: Yeah. [00:32:28] Ashley: Yeah, I, this is that’s actually, that is actually to me, probably the most helpful description of that show. Like very helpful. [00:32:36] Brett: Wow. You’re [00:32:37] Ashley: That’s the elevator pitch that I needed to say. Okay. You son of a bitch, I’m in. [00:32:43] Brett: So before we, Uh, before we wrap up today, do you want to talk a little bit about what Amazon is up to schemes and plans? [00:32:52] Ashley: you know, all they want to do is just put a little cop robot in your house. That’s oh man. Okay. [00:33:00] So Amazon earlier this week had its, um, I guess like a new product showcase. They do that. About once a year. And most of it was a lot of, you know, Hey, we’re making new ring products, we’re upgrading this, this thing that you have, we’re doing a bigger echo show. [00:33:16] It’s 15 inches. Like there’s a whole bunch of host of kind of Amazon related products that they have upgraded. Um, and they talk about two products in particular that really sort of. We’re the talk of the intro, the tech internet this week, uh, which the first one is they gave an update on their home security drone, which is a flying surveillance, drone that lives in your house. [00:33:43] Like think of it as a Roomba of the sky, [00:33:47] Brett: a ring doorbell come to life. [00:33:49] Ashley: a ring doorbell with wings, a wing doorbell. That’s what they should’ve called. [00:33:55] Brett: It was right there. It was right in front of [00:33:58] Ashley: there the whole [00:34:00] time [00:34:03] Brett: Oh, [00:34:03] Ashley: at Amazon where somebody cut me a check because that is okay. I’m going to send an email to Jeff Bezos. Um, so yeah, they basically, oh, we’re just going to call it a wing. We’re gonna call it a. That’s what we’re going to do. So here’s a wing drone. That’s what it is. So, uh, this thing is, uh, it lives in a little container and then you can sort of, uh, it’s designed to sort of like show you your house. [00:34:33] Uh, but with just one camera. So basically the Amazon is trying to say, this is the only camera you’ll need in your house. It can fly all the way around and check everything out and then come back and then dock itself, like that’s the goal. So instead of buying. Eight cameras for eight different rooms or sections of your house and checking in on each of them individually, you can like have this home camera fly and record a little [00:35:00] video of, you know, take a little flight through the house, record video, and send it back to you. [00:35:05] So, uh, it can, it can tie into, um, a ring alarm home security system. So if like you have. Part, if you have a sensor on your door and that’s activated while you’re out, the, the camera, we’ll go fly over there to see what’s going on. Like it’ll go investigate, uh, you know, strange occurrence with the, if the sensor is triggered. [00:35:29] Um, it’s very interesting. [00:35:32] Brett: It Feels like. Little scene right there, like motion at the door, something flies over to see what’s up. It feels very black mirror. To me. [00:35:40] Ashley: Feels very dystopian. Doesn’t it. It’s. [00:35:42] Brett: does. [00:35:43] Ashley: We’re about to get more dystopian because not only do they have a flying autonomous flying surveillance, drone for your house, which that sounds dystopian enough, uh, they also then announced Astro named after the Jetson’s dog, which was not a robot. Rosie was the. [00:36:00] I will go to my grave, feeling begrudge, feeling injured about this is this is a grievous Lander on Rosie, the robot. [00:36:08] Uh, but they released this little robot Astro. It’s a rolling surveillance robot designed to track behavior of people in your house and perform helper duties and other surveillance. So it’s supposed to be. Like the drone that flies around, except it’s actually just rolling around your house all the time and like checking in with you. [00:36:32] So imagine this little cute looking little rolling robot on wheels. It’s like a screen with wheels and it goes, hello. Uh, here you have a new message and it like plays you a voicemail or whatever. [00:36:44] Brett: noticed your pleasure on yourself. Would you like. Would you like some pornography? [00:36:48] Ashley: Hello. Uh, sir, I can play you some, uh, so I can play you some PornHub if you’re so inclined. I see that you’re busy. [00:36:57] Um, I see that you’re nude. Would you like to watch [00:37:00] some pornography? Uh, it’s just so bad. It’s very weird. Um, so it’s a century, it’s a, there’s like extra add-ons you can add to it. That’s like a cup holder, so it can like bring you a drink or someone can put a drink in it and then it can take it to somebody else. [00:37:15] Uh, and then they have like an automatic dog treat dispenser. [00:37:20] Brett: Oh, I could see it. I could see a place for that. [00:37:23] Ashley: yeah. And [00:37:23] Brett: you can buy an automatic dog trading, a dispatcher. You don’t need to put an Amazon robot in your home. [00:37:28] Ashley: Right. And will, and here’s the, here’s the interesting thing. So. We seen it got a little confirmation from Amazon that apparently it, it maps out your house. Cause it has to know what to avoid. [00:37:41] Right. And it uploads the map of your home to Amazon servers. Like Amazon needs to have that information for computational like awareness and improvements. And so that doesn’t make me feel great. Like, I don’t love that, that it’s not just on device. Like I it’s. [00:38:00] It’s such a difficult thing, right? It’s like, how much of your privacy are you willing to give up in exchange for the convenience of a better virtual assistant, a cloud basis system? [00:38:13] Right. So we talk about this all the time. Like that’s why Sirius so bad or, or is the least efficient of all of the voice assistance because that data. There’s PR there are some privacy gates on, on what Siri’s doing that, for example, or by comparison, Google and Amazon do not have. And so it actually, the more data that you’re feeding a system like Alexa, or okay. [00:38:42] Google. Sorry. If I triggered anybody’s, uh, devices, I apologize. Um, stop. So if you’re, but if you trigger those things like, and you’re talking to them and you’re giving them just like massive amounts of computational data, it gets. It does get better at it. That’s how it learns. But the problem [00:39:00] is, is you’re also giving up some privacy there. [00:39:01] So it’s a trade. And so it’s that, that is sort of the same thing here. Uh, but I think the one thing in particular that made me laugh really hard about this is so it’s a thousand dollars sort of this thing. Amazon says it’s going to ship later this year. Cool. Uh, but. It’s they ask you a bunch of questions when you go to pre-order it they’re like, do you have a house with two floors? [00:39:27] Like, do you have a house with stairs? Do you have, uh, do you have transitions on your flooring? Like carpet to hardwood, tile to carpet, like whatever, uh, they ask you questions like that. Do you have any floor to ceiling windows in your home? [00:39:43] Brett: Are they suicidal? [00:39:44] Ashley: Well, it’s funny that you should ask that question because vice published an article with some insider information and it has this meeting document, uh, and I’m just going to read this. [00:39:59] I’m [00:40:00] just, I’m just going to read this little, this little bit here. It says one of the internal documentation files presented in a development meeting obtained by motherboard describes how Astro patrols and owner’s home and tries to identify people at encounters. Okay. The meeting document spells out the process in a much blunter way than Amazon’s cutesy marketing suggests, uh, it slowly and intelligently patrols the home when unfamiliar people are already. [00:40:29] It moves to a predetermined scan point. And if the robot detects something, it thinks is out of the ordinary, it will investigate further. But the problem is, is that apparently, um, this thing, uh, does not work well. Developers who worked on Astro say the versions of the robot, they worked on. We’re not great. [00:40:54] And this is a quote from a source who worked on the project. Astro is terrible and will [00:41:00] almost certainly throw itself down a flight of stairs if presented the opportunity. [00:41:03] Brett: Okay. [00:41:04] Ashley: The person detection is unreliable at best making the in-home security proposition laughable. It feels fragile for something with such an absurd cost, by the way, it has a, um, a mast that looks like a selfie stick that comes out from the robot. [00:41:19] Cause it’s short, it’s like a little short robot and it has to be able to see kind of at like, like four feet tall. And so it has a little master that extends up so that I can like record stuff. It is wild. [00:41:33] Brett: And it can get stuck according to the people who worked on it. And when it’s stuck in its extended position, it’s almost impossible to ship it back to Amazon. [00:41:43] Ashley: Yes. [00:41:43] Brett: makes itself unreturnable. [00:41:46] Ashley: Yeah, it makes itself on returnable. It breaks. Amazon’s trying to position this as like, oh yeah, you could have it in your elderly relatives house and it can check on them, be a help or drown. And I’m like, [00:41:56] Brett: the single story, elderly person’s home. [00:41:59] Ashley: Yeah, in a [00:42:00] single-story elderly person’s home, which by the way, you would have to go to bed every night and pray to whatever God it is that you’re interested in, that your elderly relative does not trip over the rolling robot in your house, in their house and break a hip. [00:42:17] Brett: Yeah, that would be the, the thousand dollar robot would be the least of your concerns at that point. [00:42:22] Ashley: I mean, it’s just [00:42:24] Brett: Well, [00:42:24] Ashley: so silly. [00:42:25] Brett: and that’s all skirting around The privacy issues. Like. [00:42:29] Ashley: The fact that Amazon does it, that there’s a lot of questionable and sort of secretive practices that Amazon has been criticized for that involve selling ring, video, doorbell footage to police. Like they, I mean, this is not great, you know, like what happens when. The police decide, uh, your, your house just looks suspicious. [00:42:55] Or if you’re a person of color, if you’re black indigenous a person of [00:43:00] color, like what happens when some racist cop or racist neighbor who doesn’t know, you sees you walking into your home assumes it’s not yours because of their, because of their SIS, you know, [00:43:12] Brett: that never happens. [00:43:13] Ashley: hit that never happens. And, and then calls the police and they say, okay, well we need to pull this. [00:43:18] And then they go to the. And they pull your video footage out of your house. Like this just such a real moral gray area here. Like, I don’t love it. Like, I I’m all about having a drone deliver me a pizza, like outside of my lawn, but like, I can’t, I can’t get behind, like, we’ve been. Kind of going out of our way to buy products, uh, for surveillance purposes that are not connected to the internet. [00:43:47] So like, um, you fee is like probably my favorite company for this. We have our baby monitors. You. Um, the space for you, baby monitor. It does not. It it’s a dumb baby monitor. It doesn’t connect to the internet. [00:44:00] It doesn’t need to, it’s just a signal. And like, uh, and then we’re probably going to do the security cameras, which are like, you know, again, just records right on device battery lasts for 180 days. [00:44:13] And that’s it, it just, it auto records over stuff after seven days, [00:44:18] Brett: Yeah. Like I w I want, I want to get some IP, uh, like I want connect. I want to connect to my Synology without having to go outside of the home for that kind of surveillance, um, that I could do. But yeah, I, I have, I have echoes in my house and like I find them very handy. Being able to set multiple timers in the kitchen while I’m cooking. [00:44:43] It’s very disconcerting when they. When they come on unprovoked and say, I’m sorry, I didn’t get that. [00:44:50] And it makes you very aware of what it is they are getting. Yeah. [00:44:56] Ashley: Yeah. Well, and it’s like, I just, like, I don’t know [00:45:00] about anybody else, but like I do not have a full like day outfit on when I walk around in my house. [00:45:06] Brett: I do. I do not have anything with video in mind. [00:45:10] Ashley: Yeah. Like sometimes I walk around in my underwear sometimes I’m like, sometimes our dogs are barking and I have to go like shush stab of the yard. And I made my pajamas. Like I just, I don’t like, I just don’t. I don’t know, man. I don’t know. I don’t know. I get, I get really weirded out by this stuff and I should love it because I love technology and everything, but it’s just. [00:45:31] Brett: There’s been a line like it used to be, you could have this, uh, almost naive love of all new technology and only the truly paranoid were concerned, but we’ve rounded up. We’ve rounded a corner [00:45:46] Ashley: he’s really rounded a [00:45:47] Brett: Decade 10, 15 years, like things have gotten all new technology is built around, uh, invasion of privacy. [00:45:55] It’s like, it’s a core business model now. [00:45:58] Ashley: Yeah. And it’s [00:46:00] that’s my problem is it’s like, we’ve, like you said, we’ve turned a corner where, you know, your privacy is the product. And it’s like, yes, I understand some people who say like, well, if you’re not doing anything illegal, you shouldn’t, you have nothing to worry about. But like, that’s not really the point. [00:46:16] Right. [00:46:17] Brett: It really isn’t. [00:46:18] Ashley: Yeah, that’s true. But like, but yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s not the point. And so. I very much have like care a lot about this now. And I feel like we sort of are trying to put the genie back in the bottle because of products like Gmail is like the biggest one, right? That’s like the one product that you can point to and say, like, this was the beginning of that business model is like, we’ll give you this thing for free. [00:46:43] Cause I remember, do you remember when Photoshop was $600 every year? [00:46:48] Brett: Yup. [00:46:49] Ashley: And it’s like, now it’s like, we’re, we’re going to give you this thing for free, but you’re going to give us all your, all your privacy. And it’s like, well, I don’t love that anymore. Like, let me give you a couple of bucks. [00:47:00] Like, let me pay for a subscription wherever, as long as you’re not like overly overreaching on my data or at least give me the option to choose what you take. [00:47:08] Brett: yeah, yeah. For sure. [00:47:10] Ashley: Show me a bingo board and be like, okay, we’d like to collect all of this data. But if you pay for a subscription, you get to pick five buckets like that. We’ll take from you and all the rest of them. You keep to yourself, like, let me just, let me just at least have some level of customization over what I’m giving you. [00:47:29] Brett: Did you. [00:47:29] hear about this problem? That, uh, shit, what’s it called? Not, not, uh, not Instagram. W tic-tac tic-tac was having w w when they tried to crack down on COVID misinformation, their algorithm was so good that if someone watched one, uh, video containing COVID misinformation, it would queue up like auto-play all of the possible misinformation you could fit [00:48:00] into one playlist. Self-defeating. [00:48:04] Ashley: I really, I mean, God. [00:48:07] Brett: they tried to fix it, but they have this thing where you can take the audio from one clip and apply it to another clip. So the clips they deleted were on average, getting used, the audio would be used in over a hundred other clips that there was no way to stop it. [00:48:23] Ashley: Yeah. It’s like stemming. I mean, is it? Yeah, no, no, you can’t stop that. Did you ever, did you ever hear, there was a Twitter thread years ago that like really has stuck with me. Tech and like computer sciences and things like that, which is, um, and I, I feel like a jerk because I don’t remember his name. [00:48:44] Oh, it’s a guy who was talking about how he’s like I used to be in, I think he was either in physics or chemistry and compute and comp size. So he’s in computer sciences and he talks about how the computer [00:49:00] science industry. So I’m. For all intents and purposes has never had an ethical reckoning the way that other sciences have. [00:49:10] So he talks about how in the. In the chemistry community, they had to reckon with a chemical warfare and they had to reckon with the ethics of creating that and also, um, you know, dynamite and, uh, you know, other there’s other like other examples. And then he talks about how like, chemical warfare was the big one for the chemistry. [00:49:33] And she’s like, and then in the physics space, we had to grapple with the [00:49:39] Brett: Adam bomb. [00:49:40] Ashley: the ethical nature of the. And also the hydrogen bomb, right? So like now the Hydra bomb and he’s like in really computer science has never experienced that. They’ve never experienced a watershed moment of reckoning and the closest we got to, it was maybe Cambridge Analytica [00:50:00] and like, but it’s so it’s so disjointed and so separate that it’s very hard to have those watershed moments now because there’s not a collective experience that occurred. [00:50:13] Under any of these sort of, uh, you know, scandals. So a good example is this week, uh, Facebook released this, this massive set of slides that it had done research on like deep research, really deep research on the effect of Instagram, on teenage girls in a very negative way like this, this app is hurting them. [00:50:36] It is harming them in a way that. We don’t even realize how bad it is and Facebook knows, and they don’t care. Like they just do not seem to care because it, they, it doesn’t matter to them. And, you know, and it’s like, these moments are really. Th the, the industry is just in need of this reckoning moment where we are [00:51:00] teaching. [00:51:00] Cause now if you go to school to be a physicist, if you go to school to be a chemist, there are classes about ethics that you learn and you learn about those watershed moments and you, you understand what. The power of your chosen field can be used to do, you know, can be done with what that power can be used for in the worst ways. [00:51:27] In the worst hand. As opposed to only saying, well, it’s just going to change everybody’s life for the better, because it’s connecting people like Facebook never considers the ramifications of what if this thing that we’re building this piece of product that we’re building is used in the worst possible way. [00:51:44] Like, what is the worst possible scenario? And I’m, and that’s why they have such a hard time getting a handle on disinformation because they never, because they never said we need to build this product to protect from that thing in the first place. [00:52:00] And like so much tech does this where it’s like, they only think of the best case scenario, the, the, the positive change it’ll bring to the world without actually considering how it can be weaponized by people with less altruistic intent. [00:52:14] And it was just such a good thread. And I, I think about it all the time. [00:52:18] Brett: It’s like they, they can at the outset that consider what, what all the good things are going to happen and they ignore the potential for bad things. But then when the bad things do happen, as they inevitably will, as things scale, they continue to like actively. Actively hide them, work around them. Like it is the profit motive kind of kills all benevolence of technology. [00:52:51] Ashley: And also the investor, the investment pipeline does because these companies are not going to admit to any potential [00:53:00] investor, that there are certain ways of using, uh, a service or a product that can really harm people, because then they’re not going to get invested in. [00:53:09] Brett: Except for some of those ways or some of that, some of that in. [00:53:12] and of itself is profitable. Like there there’s, there’s profit to be made on the dark side of these technologies. [00:53:18] Ashley: Absolutely. And Instagram, I mean, you know, like, uh, they had these hearings the other day and, um, Senator Blumenthal got like scorched for talking about like, what is a Finsta? Like whatever, but he explained it like an hour prior. He knows exactly what it is. And then he asked the executive, he was like, w do, do you have plans to end Finstas, which are fake Instagrams, that a lot of kids will set up for, uh, to keep away from their parents, to like share things with their friends and stuff like that. [00:53:49] And it’s, it goes beyond that, but that’s a, that’s a big chunk of users who have a, a second Instagram account. And really at the end of the day, Instagram would never stop. [00:53:59] Brett: No, They push [00:54:00] those on. You Like every time I log in, they’re like, Hey, do you want to make a second [00:54:04] Ashley: another account. Yeah, because that’s more accounts that they can say are active and it makes their bottom line better, makes it easier and makes them more money to sell ads. [00:54:14] And it’s just like, of course, they’re not going to stop that. Like they’re never going to stop that. You know, they have a whole slide deck that says how harmful Instagram is for teenage girls and they’ve done nothing. To, you know, they’ve done absolutely nothing to curb that [00:54:33] Brett: this guy, dark. [00:54:34] Ashley: it did it, it really did, but [00:54:36] Brett: an episode that really focused so hard on Rick rolling [00:54:41] Ashley: We went from Rick rolling to what I argue is one of the biggest technological, uh, fights worth having in the 21st century, privacy, [00:54:50] Brett: it’s worth it. Conversation [00:54:52] Ashley: privacy. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s, it’s I like, I think about that thread all the time, and I’m just like, just, just think [00:55:00] about how you can, you know, it’s like, if you have a brick, you can build a house, but you can also kill somebody with it. [00:55:05] You know, it’s just think about that. Like really think about it before you’re going out there being like, this is only going to build beautiful houses. It will never be used [00:55:15] Brett: bricks for everyone. [00:55:16] Ashley: for everybody gets bricks. In fact, take a whole bag full of. [00:55:21] Brett: Just sign over some personal data on the way. [00:55:23] Ashley: You have a cell. Yeah, exactly. Give us your social security number. [00:55:27] Brett: Ashley. It’s always a pleasure to have you on. [00:55:30] Ashley: I love you guys, both. I love you both equally. I like hanging out with you anchor six different types of conversation, but equally. [00:55:39] Brett: It is. And, and when Christina and I are together, we play off each other quite well. And I feel like it comes out pretty balanced. Uh, when it’s just you and Christina, it gets very bachelor heavy. [00:55:52] Ashley: And can we, well, we, it gets chaotic, right? Like we’re, we’re just a couple of hurricanes rolling around. Like, [00:55:59] Brett: [00:56:00] Yeah, you both talk faster than I do too. [00:56:03] Ashley: it’s true. And just imagine two hurricanes colliding, like that’s basically what hanging out with me. And Christina was like, [00:56:09] Brett: Well, except you would think like with a certain amount of light, uh, w w hurricanes will say metaphorically colliding that there would be like, [00:56:17] a neutrality that came out of that, like, uh, an eye of the storm. I feel like you guys hit that last time. I listened to you guys do an episode. Sometimes I just edit episodes and I don’t pay attention. [00:56:33] Ashley: That’s fair. [00:56:34] Brett: last time I forgot to put the, the, the closing, uh, the outro music on the episode. I’m sorry to everyone who found that very disconcerting to just be just left, hanging, just [00:56:45] Ashley: It was a cliffhanger. We just put together a cliffhanger episode. It’s fine. [00:56:48] Brett: Do you know how we end this up? These shows? Do you know how we ended up episode? I say, get some sleep, Christina and Christina said, Get some sleep, Brett. [00:56:58] So you want to try it? [00:57:00] [00:57:00] Ashley: Yeah, let’s do it. [00:57:01] Brett: This is, this is how the Overtired show goes. Get some sleep, actually. [00:57:05] Ashley: Get some sleep, Brett.

The perils of overachieving, Christina gets a new laptop, and a bunch of stuff in the middle. Mostly good stuff. Radio gold. Sponsor Upstart is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan –– all online. Visit Upstart.com/Overtired to get your fast approval with up-front rates. Listener Survey Please help us improve the show by taking a minute to fill out a listener survey. If you do, you could win a $50 Amazon gift card, in addition to the feeling of accomplishment you’ll have for actually finishing something today. Because it’s been one of those days, hasn’t it? Show Links Ted Lasso Emmys Virtual Macstock 2021 Rocket #352 (in which Christina talks about her iPhone 13) Framework Cory’s review Framework Laptop Teardown: 10/10, But is it Perfect? – iFixit CardPointers Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 255 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey everybody. You’re listening to Overtired. You’re here with your very tired cohost. Me Brett Terpstra and Christina Warren. How are you, Christina? [00:00:14] Christina: I’m also very tired. Uh, my insomnia, um, as reared its head again. So even though we’re recording this at like 7:00 AM, I got like two hours of sleep. So [00:00:28] Brett: I like how you said insomnia with a Z. Like it was in Zambia. [00:00:33] Christina: Yeah, exactly. [00:00:34] Brett: Oh, Matt. Two hours of sleep for, is that too, like more than one night in a row or is that just one night? [00:00:41] Christina: Uh, this is like more than one night. I mean, this was only two hours of sleep, like, so I went to, I fell asleep at like 5:00 AM and, um, so, but I. I don’t know the last time that I got like, as a stained, like [00:01:00] more than maybe like four hours at a time. It’s been days. [00:01:04] Brett: yeah. That’ll wear you down. Hardcore. [00:01:07] Christina: Yeah. I’m glad it’s the weekend. [00:01:08] Brett: I, yeah, I hope you get some sleep. I’ll I’ll tell you again at the end of the show, but, [00:01:14] Christina: Yeah. [00:01:14] Brett: but yeah, like that, like I’ve had over the last couple of weeks of a few nights of bad sleep, but, uh, once I got through last, week’s kind of more intense manic episode. Uh, I got four, four nights in a row. [00:01:30] Good. Eight hours sleep. And then last couple of nights have been more like five or six hours, but not nearly as bad as two to four hours a night for multiple days. [00:01:41] Christina: Yeah. [00:01:43] Mental Health Corner [00:01:43] Brett: Yeah. So how’s your mental health? [00:01:47] Christina: Well, the tiredness, you know, although I had this whole discussion. Shrink last week about the difference between, uh, being tired, being fatigued, being, uh, there’s like a, uh, [00:02:00] another, uh, thing like exhausted. I think there was there all these different types of, of sleep things. And we were trying to figure out like, which one I have. so he wrote me a script, um, for, uh, we’re going to try some sort of sleep medication and see if that helps [00:02:17] Brett: so here’s the thing is the, I think they’re called Z class, like a Lunesta. And I can’t remember the other one. Um, like I took those for years and they do help me with sleep, but they fucked my memory. [00:02:33] Christina: Yeah. [00:02:34] Brett: I don’t have great memory as an ADHD person anyway, but this was like, I was forgetting yesterday entirely. [00:02:41] I couldn’t keep track of things. Five minutes later. Uh, it was, it was scary. Like I thought it was early onset Alzheimer’s because, uh, you can only take those first so long before they destroy your memory. So be careful. [00:02:55] Christina: Yeah. [00:02:56] I will. There’s also like, whatever, I can’t remember which one I’m going to be [00:03:00] taking. Um, I may be testing it out. It’s, it’s, there’s a new one. That’s really experimental. That is incredibly expensive, like incredibly expensive that you often have to like appeal to your insurance companies and whatnot to let you take. [00:03:15] Um, and, and it’s, uh, I mean, I can’t remember how much a month it would have cost, but it it’s something insane. So I’m not starting with that. I’m starting with one that is apparently. Apparently they’ve done stuff. They’ve done tests with it, where they take people who’ve been on it. They wake them up after a couple of hours and then put them on like a driving course test and they can still drive and it’s supposed to be good. [00:03:40] But Yeah. [00:03:41] if it has any sort of memory issues, then that’s a no-go for me, because I, I have a really good memory and I can’t lose. [00:03:48] Brett: There are a bunch of, uh, like sleep meds that don’t have those Z class effects. So hopefully, hopefully your doctor’s aware of those side effects. [00:04:00] Um, I was on like it’s, I was on something that was also given to me in rehab, uh, for sleep. And that went back on it like 20 years later and it still worked great. [00:04:15] It had very few side effects. Uh, I don’t know why it wasn’t just given to me to begin with. Um, I can’t remember the name of it, but I have the, I have the benefit of my current bipolar medication. Also just knocks me out unless if I’m already manic, it just makes me a little bit tired. But in normal circumstances, like 15 minutes, I’m out, down. [00:04:41] Christina: that’s good. [00:04:43] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, sleep is good. [00:04:46] Christina: I mean, that’s sort of the Genesis of the whole show, right? [00:04:49] Brett: should do a podcast about that. [00:04:51] Christina: we honestly, we should, I think that, that, uh, it could, and, and, and it could last for like seven years or something. So however many years [00:05:00] we’ve been doing this off and on [00:05:01] Brett: But you know, us, it, it, it, would, it would, come and go. [00:05:04] Christina: it would come and go. [00:05:05] There’ll be like periods of time where we’d be really productive and then periods of time where we’d be like, wait, do we have a podcast? Yeah. [00:05:11] Brett: long have we been doing season two now? I feel like we have only missed maybe two weeks out of the last, how many? [00:05:19] Christina: At least a year. [00:05:20] Brett: Yeah. God, we’re like we’re back. [00:05:23] Christina: We are, we are like, we’ve been like work insistent. I think we’re for season two, then we maybe ever. [00:05:30] Brett: Yeah, for sure. This is, this is our longest stretch. Well, we’re we have regular sponsors now. [00:05:37] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, [00:05:37] So, and, and, uh, yeah, so we like, we, we take it, not that we didn’t take it seriously before. Cause we did. And there was a period of time when, even when we didn’t have regular sponsors, we were still doing it, but we’re like back on like the, the committed, like train. [00:05:52] Brett: we’re not getting rich, but [00:05:54] Christina: No, [00:05:54] Brett: get a little bit, we get a little bit for our efforts and it’s okay. [00:05:59] Christina: it is it’s [00:06:00] good. [00:06:00] Uh, and it was nice like before, um, you know, you, uh, you got all, uh, like a tech money. Rich. It was a nice, it was, it was, it was nice for you, so [00:06:11] Brett: Yeah. It was actually a notable income. When, when we first started getting paid, let’s see, a year ago we were talking about, uh, Dawson’s Creek and, uh, uh, Taylor swift theme park. Is that? Yeah. Has it already been a year since. [00:06:30] Christina: Oh, my God. It’s been a year since the, the, the, the, the adorable gay kid who did the very, very in-depth tailors with the impart a YouTube video. [00:06:38] Brett: here’s what blows me away is I am completely time blind. Uh, like I thought that episode was maybe a couple months ago. [00:06:51] Christina: Yeah. [00:06:52] Brett: I find I’ve been living with my girlfriend for like five years. [00:06:58] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, you guys [00:07:00] have been together a really long time, which is awesome. [00:07:02] Brett: But if, if, if I didn’t, if I wasn’t constantly told that I would think I moved in here a year ago. Like I have no concept of time, which is a common ADHD symptom. [00:07:12] Christina: It is an, it’s a weird one because I have so many of the common ADHD symptoms. That’s strangely not one of them. However, pandemic ha. Fucked with everybody’s time since, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like there’s, I think that even if you have like, you’re completely neuro-typical I think that everybody’s time, uh, like a concept of time and, and so many other things have been just completely fucked up because of the last 20 months or whatever it is. [00:07:43] So, uh, like, um, yeah, cause it’s been over a year because I’m trying to think back. I was like, yeah. Cause I think that it was yeah, like, yeah, again, I was like thinking like August, September, because I can see where I was sitting kind of in the same spot in my office, [00:08:00] you know, this time last year, but so much stuff has changed, but so much hasn’t changed. [00:08:05] You know what I mean? Like the pandemic has been just a mind fuck on so many levels, so, [00:08:10] Brett: I found our first episode, since we came back, it was, uh, August of 2020. [00:08:17] Christina: yup. [00:08:18] Brett: So just over a year [00:08:19] Christina: just over a year Yeah. [00:08:21] Brett: happy anniversary [00:08:22] Christina: Happy anniversary. This is good. Does season two. [00:08:26] Exactly know, I mean, but kind of like a renewed vigor cause before, um, two, it had been almost a year since we’d recorded before. [00:08:34] Brett: We had like one episode randomly and, uh, yeah, we had, we had one episode in June of 2019, so it had been over a year. [00:08:43] Christina: It’s been over a year. Exactly. So, so yeah. So happy anniversary to, to us bringing the show back consistently. [00:08:50] On the perils of success [00:08:50] Brett: Yeah. All right. So I like last week we talked, I, I was coming off of a manic binge [00:09:00] and, uh, I had stayed up, excuse me. I had stayed up for a couple of nights and I had pulled off like some mad website magic at work. I had built this, uh, ver it was very good. It went over very well. Like I had done great work. [00:09:18] Uh, I got complaints from coworkers who were like, you can’t set a precedent that we stay up all night and I’m like, oh God, no, I didn’t. I didn’t mean to do that because. I w I, like, I was not happy about it. The only reason I mentioned it at all was to explain why it was such a wreck in a zoom meeting. Um, but I didn’t mean to like, make other people feel like they had to stay up all night. [00:09:44] Cause I wouldn’t push that on anybody. So, you know, I took that lesson. I, I I’ll deal with, if, if that happens again, I I’ll be more upfront with my manager and tell them what’s going on instead of like saying it in a zoom meeting, [00:10:00] but then. This week I’m like, I think I’m still a little manic, but not like sleepless manic. [00:10:08] Um, but, uh, so Victor was out sick. I don’t know. Is that too personal? Should I not say that on our podcast, [00:10:15] Christina: No, I think that’s okay. [00:10:16] Brett: Victor, Victor had, uh, had to go get COVID tested, but, um, that’s medical information. I shouldn’t share that. Um, and then Aaron was also out for like the whole month and our manager says, Hey, we need to have a, we had, I’ll just say we had to meet this goal by Friday. [00:10:37] And it, it was a goal for the entire team to publish a certain amount of content by Friday. The team right now is just me. And so I figure let’s just do it. Let’s, let’s refocus our energy. Let’s get this done and I kick ass at it. And I finished [00:11:00] all of it by the end of Wednesday and I hand it over and I mark off the JIRA tickets and immediately it dawns on me that I just set a precedent that I could get up a significant amount of work done in like a third of the time. [00:11:22] It should have taken me and I should have slow walked it and I should have turned it in on Friday as requests. I was immediately, that was immediately validated when the next day they said, great job. Here’s twice as much more since you can clearly do this really well. And in addition to that, we need you to train new employees to do things as well as you do them. [00:11:46] And like, once I hit depression, that precedent is going to be completely UN unattainable. So I have, I have screwed future me [00:12:00] pretty hard here. [00:12:01] Christina: you have. It is not insurmountable. Do not do it again. [00:12:06] Brett: Yeah, [00:12:07] Christina: You honestly, by, by making it seem like it was a fluke is How is how you fix it. That, that, and that’s the only thing you can do because otherwise, unfortunately, and we’ve talked about this before, this is like the corporate America trap. And I don’t even want to say corporate America. [00:12:21] I think even like startups, I think like just any job, this is a natural thing where. You think you’ll be rewarded for stuff like that. You won’t be like people who always are like, oh, I’ll if I work really hard and if I make this? like really terrible deadline, that is unfair work, I’ll be rewarded with more headcount or more resources. [00:12:43] No, you won’t. So that means that next time you have an opportunity, like where you have one of these crazy deadlines, you have to walk it, you have to slow walk at meaning. Even if you’re done on Wednesday, you then just spend Thursday and, you know, [00:13:00] time period on Friday, literally doing nothing. [00:13:03] And then you turn it in on Friday. [00:13:05] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, no, I, it dawned on me immediately that that’s what I should do. [00:13:11] Christina: Yep. [00:13:11] Brett: So, yeah, in the future, I will be, uh, I will be working at a normal human pace and, and not doing impossible things cause you’re right. Like it just be in immediately becomes the new norm and you immediately get more work. And when you don’t finish that work, then you actually end up looking bad. [00:13:30] Christina: exactly. They said it as the new standard, because I’ve run into this problem myself. I don’t have like the manic tendencies, but I’ve done. I’ve had the same thing where like I made the impossible happen and, and I, and it took me years to kind of figure this out. It’d be like, oh, I’m not going to be rewarded for this actually. [00:13:46] Like, I’m not going to be rewarded for this. And, um, and you have to, and, and it feels weird, especially if you’re somebody who, you know, kind of takes pride in what you’re doing and, and wants to like, I’m a pleaser [00:14:00] and you want to get things done. It, it feels weird to me. Like instinctually kind of go after that, but you have to, because there, you’re not going to get those extra resources. [00:14:12] You’re just not, that’s not how, unfortunately how the world works. And, um, this is going to wind up being like, ultimately it could be bad. [00:14:21] because if you can’t keep that pace up, even if you, for you, and if you don’t have the th th the cyclical kind of, you know, things coming, um, that becomes the new expectation and you just can’t let that happen. [00:14:32] I think you can make this seem like this is a one-off and, and, and it was kind of a fluke, but honestly, as, as weird, and, and as pseudo guilty as you’ll feel, you just have to, when this sort of thing happens in the future, you just have to find a way to not turn it in and just wait, you know, [00:14:53] Brett: Yeah. I, I proactively went ahead and scheduled myself a week off at the end of October, [00:15:00] or like, mid-October, I figured if they’re not, like I thought I would turn this shit in, uh, early, and then they’d be like, great job, you know, enjoy the rest of the week. Uh, Nope. Obviously that’s not what happens. So I just said, you know what, I’m just going to make my own reward. [00:15:17] I have unlimited time off. Here you go. I took my time. [00:15:21] Christina: No, I agree. Yeah. I think that’s actually a really smart thing. If you have a unlimited PTO, which is a scam, but if you have that, uh, take it and, and even if you don’t have unlimited PTO, um, you know, like if, if, because I have, I don’t have unlimited, but I have, um, like there’s only a certain amount that rolls over. [00:15:40] So if I don’t take. my time. [00:15:43] by the end of the year. Uh, and I haven’t taken the other stuff, which I never take all my time. So I usually have like, I’m, I’m stuck at this weird thing where in December I have to calculate how many hours of vacation I have to take. Otherwise I’ll lose. And in some cases what’s happened is that I’m [00:16:00] like, well, I’m still going to take meetings and work, but I’m technically taking the days off, you know, in the system so that I don’t lose them, but I’ll still show up at the meetings or whatever, but I’ll be less engaged. [00:16:09] Um, but Yeah. [00:16:11] like just make sure you take that time, you know? [00:16:14] Brett: I just figured out the, uh, episode title over productive. [00:16:19] Christina: Oh my God. That’s really funny. That’s good. [00:16:22] Brett: Ah, it’s all right. All right. Let’s [00:16:25] The Pop Culture Segment with Ted Lasso [00:16:25] Christina: No, I like it. It’s no, it’s good. I like it. I like it. Um, I was, I was talking to a friend, uh, yesterday about the new Ted lasso, which I haven’t seen yet. Um, and, uh, and they were saying, um, that they had, they had a hot take about, uh, a music choice in, in a recent episode, not the most recent one. [00:16:43] And, and they, they ended it by being like, uh, thank you for, uh, for, for listening to my Ted talk. And I giggled. I was like, that’s okay. That’s, that’s a dad joke, but that’s actually very funny. [00:16:54] Brett: The soundtrack of Ted lasso always impresses me. Not because it’s like [00:17:00] blatantly here’s music you like, because it’s really well selected. Uh, well mixed. And like, there are times that I like it’ll Dawn on me halfway through a scene that this soundtrack is perfect for it, but I didn’t notice it until that point. [00:17:16] Christina: Yeah, I agree with that. Um, and I don’t know if she’s involved with the music stuff, but I know that bill Lawrence cause his wife, uh, Christa Miller has like really good music taste. And she did a lot of the music picks on scrubs and scrubs had incredible music and a lot of people gave Zach Braff credit for that. [00:17:33] And he, you know, had had some input, but, um, it was, it was actually his wife who is also an actress and has acted in a number of his series who had a bigger role in picking a lot of the, The tunes because she has really good music taste. And I don’t know if she’s involved in any of the music selection for Ted lasso, but I would not be surprised. [00:17:54] So, [00:17:55] Brett: last episode, you said you haven’t seen it? [00:17:57] Christina: uh, the one that came out like six hours ago [00:17:59] Brett: [00:18:00] Oh, no, no, no, no. The trippy one, the long, strange trip through London. [00:18:06] Christina: Yeah. [00:18:06] Brett: The soundtrack of that was amazing. I loved it. Everything about it fit the mood of the episode. And the episode was so weird. Like I love the episode. I kind of wanted like a standard Ted lasso in addition to it, like, I would’ve, I would’ve watched it as an extra, but it was still, it was very well done. [00:18:25] Christina: it was, Yeah. I liked it. I liked the beard kind of a, I think they call those like bottle episodes, you know, whereas [00:18:31] Brett: Character studies. [00:18:33] Christina: Yeah. [00:18:33] You know, it’s all, it’s all, you know, just his stuff and it was, it was interesting. I wonder if. And this is me thinking too much about the business side of this stuff, but, but, but it’s, but that’s also very interesting to me. [00:18:46] Um, they gave it an extra, they gave it like a couple extra episodes, I think, for the order than what they had last time. So that’s why they had the Christmas episode, which aired weirdly in like August. Um, but I also wonder if this [00:19:00] is one of those things where, especially for that actor, who’s really good, who they haven’t given a ton of time to, if they were like, okay, Hey, we’re going to give you your own episode where it’s just going to be you and a couple of the like, you know, bit background players. [00:19:15] Exactly. And everybody else will get a week off basically. Right. So everybody else is going to get paid, but they get kind of a week off because we got this extra episode order. I wonder if that’s how that happened. [00:19:26] Brett: Yeah. Who knows [00:19:27] Christina: I mean, I liked it either way, but, but uh, I mean I’m with you. I would [00:19:31] Brett: man? No spoilers, but those pants [00:19:34] Christina: The past were really good. Um, the Emmys were on Sunday. Uh, no one watched them. Um, but, uh, but Ted lasso did like completely clean up at the Emmy’s, which was great. [00:19:45] Brett: makes sense to me. [00:19:46] Christina: Me too. me. [00:19:47] too, but Brett Goldstein. Um, who’s Roy Kent one, um, the, uh, um, uh, um, Hannah what’s her face, um, uh, I can’t think of [00:20:00] the character’s first name right now. [00:20:01] Uh, but, but, uh, um, she won for, uh, for best actress in a comedy, which was a very competitive category. Uh, and, um, w which was pretty great. Obviously, Jason Sudeikis won at won best comedy, so it, it, it cleaned up, which I was very, very happy about. [00:20:20] Brett: Speaking of cleaning up. Well, not my best transition, but yeah, no, that was such a horrible segue. I, I got gotta, I’m going to put off the sponsor, read for another, another segment because I got to come up with a better segue. That just was not up to my standard. [00:20:41] Christina: This wasn’t up to Bret standards and, and honestly that’s been kind of like a, a trademark of how good we are. Yeah. And I see, I see, uh, what the, who the sponsor is right now, and I see where you were going, but that didn’t quite work. [00:20:54] Is there a name for that thing where there’s a camera in your face and you totally freeze? [00:20:54] Brett: Nope. It was too much of a walk. So I, so I’m doing virtual Maxik, I’m a [00:21:00] speaker at virtual max doc. I think we talked about that. [00:21:02] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. we talked about like, we talked, I think that. [00:21:05] uh, cause you’re going to talk about button. [00:21:06] Brett: Yeah. And I got all this new equipment for video recording at work, and I decided I would use my new setup to create my Mac stock talk. And in the process, like train myself on all this new heart. [00:21:21] Christina: Right. [00:21:22] Brett: It is hard. So a like, I’m, I’m pretty good at it. I’m pretty comfortable podcasting talking a whole different story. [00:21:30] When I have a camera pointed at my face. Oh, it’s like when I first sat down to podcasts, as soon as the mic was in front of my face, I would get like frozen. And I worked through that. I’m good at that now, but it repeated when it was a camera, like, and I’m good behind the camera. I have a lot of experience filming. [00:21:50] I’ve just not an, I don’t have experience being an on-camera personality that and figuring out like this [00:22:00] camera has it. Doesn’t once you hook up the HDMR out, the autofocus falls asleep. [00:22:08] Christina: Oh, that sucks. [00:22:10] Brett: unless if it’s recording, it has great autofocus with a whole bunch of different. But as soon as you hook it up to HTMI out and start capturing your computer, it stops autofocusing. [00:22:22] And like, I, I don’t know yet how to solve it, but for just sitting, talking head stuff, I figured out how to just lock it. [00:22:32] Christina: And this is, this is the El Gato, right? [00:22:35] Brett: It’s no, no, no, no, no, no. It’s the, the Lumix, the Panasonic Lumix G seven, [00:22:41] Christina: oh, got it. Okay. there, there, has to be a second. I don’t know on the Panasonics, but there has to be a setting. I would, I would search, um, I would, [00:22:51] Brett: there, [00:22:51] Christina: I would look at Twitch streamers. Yeah. I was going to say, I would try to figure out what Twitch streamers have done, because they’re the ones who you want to [00:22:58] Brett: Yeah. If you, [00:23:00] if you look through YouTube for a continuous auto-focus while streaming with the , like you can find some tips. None of them are perfect. This is not as good as streaming camera. As the reviews led me to believe. [00:23:16] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think that that’s the weird thing because there are, depending on, I mean, that’s one of the reasons I got the Sony, um, is, uh, Because those do work really well. At least the one that I have, and I think most of them in general, like the autofocus and it has really good. Autofocus where it actually, like you can set, like what figure you want it to track. [00:23:41] And even if I moved behind something, like it’ll automatically, you know, focus in and, and, and, and change like the, the focal point and it could be Boca. So like, if I go behind my mic or whatever, it’s funny, um, it, you know, it’ll, it’ll sometimes like focus in on it’ll struggle a little bit, but, um, uh, the Sonys work well, but yeah. [00:23:59] Um, I, I [00:24:00] would like figure out like, whatever, like the YouTubers are doing, but yeah, cause that’s, that’s going to be a challenge [00:24:05] Brett: I figure out how to return this and try a different brand. Or I ask Oracle if I can sell it use and just buy my own camera. But. [00:24:17] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, that, that’s an option too. I would say if that this doesn’t seem like it’s going to be ideal for you. I would definitely say if, if the El Gato face camera, whatever is not sufficient, I would highly recommend a Sony camera. Uh, you could get like, um, cause you don’t need a 4k one, so you could get either a used or even like, like a new, um, like a, an a like, uh, like, like 5,000 series. [00:24:40] And it would be very, very good and it would have you know, good autofocus stuff plus, um, you can, you know, um, like I use a cam link, but I think the Sony software now at this point even has a thing where you could just connect it over USB and, and like [00:24:56] Brett: like cam link circle. [00:24:58] Christina: Uh, Kelly’s are awesome. Yeah, exactly. I’m just [00:25:00] saying, I think that the now, because of the pandemic and stuff, uh, a number of the companies, Sony and Canon both, um, you know, had to introduce that stuff. [00:25:07] I’m sure that Canon stuff is good too. I just, for this sort of stuff, I’ve had a lot of success with the Sony’s. [00:25:14] Brett: So like the first day I sat down and I got my script all exported and into the pad caster and I had everything set up and I got it rolling. And I recorded a half an hour of video with a couple of retakes. At the end of the day, I finally looked at my dailies, like I didn’t, until that point and realized I didn’t turn the microphone on, on the [00:25:38] Christina: Oh God. [00:25:39] Brett: So I had a whole bunch of video with zero audio and I was done. Like I was too tired to like record. So the next day. [00:25:48] Christina: at that point, you’re just pissed [00:25:49] Brett: Yeah, the morale was, it was too much of a hit. So the next day I sit down fresh. I make sure everything’s working. I record a five minute test segment. Double-check my, my output. [00:26:00] And I get rolling. [00:26:02] But the combination of just feeling like, oh my God, I’ve already done this. And, uh, and just being overall tired by about halfway through it, it became impossible for me to make like happy facial expressions. And like my face just went dead pen and I could not make myself smile. I could not like, I can’t imagine being an actor who has to just repeatedly do takes of a scene. [00:26:31] Like I, I get so tired of it. I’m not, I’m not, I need practice. I, I can get better at this. I’m sure I can. [00:26:39] Christina: No, you’re going to do great in, in, Yeah, [00:26:40] You’re going to get practiced, but I’m actually really proud of you for figuring out that this is a difficult thing and like a different skill set, because there are so many people that I work with who it, it, it took, you know, some of the pandemic 17. Who honestly, sometimes they would. [00:26:57] And I would hear them kind of make comments about [00:27:00] me, um, either see my face or, or, or behind my back and in ways that were, there were kind of like, I’m not, I’m not gonna lie. I kind of like half nagging, half kind of, kind of shitty, to be honest, where they would kind of make assumptions about how easy all the on-camera stuff that I do is. [00:27:15] And I’m like, because most of the people that I work with are very, very good public speakers and it’s different speaking in public versus speaking on camera. It just is like, I’m a better on camera speaker than I am a live speaker, although I’ve gotten good at being live. Uh, I I’m, I just have more experience being on camera. [00:27:34] So even if I’m live on camera, I’m better at that for a weird reason than I am in front of a crowd, but there, there are different experiences and people who would be really good in one context or would like you have experience with the audio would just be very awkward and not great. And. [00:27:52] Brett: It’s weird too, because like, I’m actually a pretty good public speaker. Like I I’ve spoken on stage at [00:28:00] Macworld multiple or yeah. Macworld and max stock. And like I can in front of a crowd I’m okay. It’s when I’m in front of just the camera and nobody else is there that I freeze and I jump same with podcasting. [00:28:15] Like, I don’t know if I get getting my head, like how many people are going to see this and then it, like, I get perfectionist about it. I think when I’m, when I’m talking about like right now, uh, like I can make mistakes, I can backtrack on stuff. I want my video though, to not be full of stutters and pauses and, and backtracking. [00:28:37] So that gets in my head. And then I get scared to say anything. [00:28:44] Christina: No in practice will do it for me. And obviously you. Do this, because it’s just not the way, uh, the world works. But for me, I have to say it was incredibly useful because I’m, I’m in an interesting situation where it’s [00:29:00] weird. I in live things, I will have my ums and setters and stuff like that. But if I see a camera on, I’m usually pretty good, even more than just a microphone or even being with somebody I’m usually like my mind goes into a certain frame and I’m usually much better about that stuff. [00:29:16] Whether I have a script or not. Although a lot of times for things like this, I do try to have a script and try to do to teleprompter and whatnot. And I think it’s because of all the live TV hits I used to do, because that was a terrifying, especially when I started doing it. And B I early on, uh, mashville was very briefly, we had like a kind of a short-term contract with them, the PR agency. [00:29:42] Because this was right when mashville was starting to kind of grow this before we raised money, but it was when the company was starting to grow. This was like 2011. I want to say. And, you know, hired like its own CTO and took all of our ad sales in house and was really making a push to be like, okay, we’re doing this thing. [00:29:59] Like, [00:30:00] this is not just like, uh, you know, a teenager in Scotland’s blog anymore. Like this is a real fucking business. And I had just moved to New York and we had this, this Edelman contract. And so they brought some of us in for media training and they continue to do media training. But at That point it was then done by like the in-house people who are not like the 30 year vets, like one of the guys who did my media training used to be the comms person for Mario Cuomo, the, the, you know, um, deceased father, but, but you know, former, like three-time governor of New York, uh, you know, father of a, of Chris and. one. who just got impeached and Yeah, [00:30:42] that one, you know, it was, but he, he was like his comms guy and, and then worked at Edelman for a long time. And I, it was honestly the most instructive thing in one of the most instructive days I’ve ever had in my life where they gave us a, a lot of really good, like as a [00:31:00] group, a lot of really good. [00:31:02] I guess tips on how to be interviewed. And that was interesting because in that case, they were basically like telling us how to avoid answering difficult questions and how to phrase things the right way and whatnot. The reason that was so useful, not that I get asked that stuff that often, and although it is sometimes useful and in Microsoft contexts now, but because it’s a journalist, I then knew the tells to pick up on when people would want to evade questions. [00:31:26] One would want to use weasel words and sentences. So I could reverse engineer how to interview people. And I was like, oh my God, you don’t even know what you’ve done. You’ve actually just made your job more difficult because now I know exactly what to listen for. And I would use it all the time. I could like totally pick up on the cues and be like, oh, okay, well, I know what they’re saying here, so I can rephrase this. [00:31:44] Or I can come at this from a different angle and get them off their guard and get them to say stuff they don’t want to say. But then the most useful thing, because it was, I, I just moved to New York. And, um, I might’ve told this story before, but I’ll tell it again. So for [00:32:00] context, I lived in Atlanta my entire life, and I’ve been trying to break into the CNN on air rocket, and I hadn’t made any traction, which look fair. [00:32:09] Right? Like they, there are lots of people, especially then, you know, I was, I was young and, and, you know, Mashable was hardly super well known at the time. It’s not like I was expecting to get punditry spots on TV. However, it would have been nice. But, uh, I, you know, I lived in Atlanta my whole life where CNN is, and I’d really wanted to break into that racket. [00:32:30] Didn’t happen literally my second day in New York. I get a phone call from a four oh four number and it was CNN in Atlanta and they wanted somebody to talk about, uh, some sort of apple story. There was some sort of privacy thing going on and they needed somebody to talk about it. And I said, well, you know, I’m not in Atlanta anymore, but I am in New York. [00:32:49] And they said, Okay. [00:32:50] cool. So we’ll send a car, we’ll take you down to the state, to the studio and you’ll do your hit. I’d never done live TV before. So I do my hit. They were really impressed. And, and [00:33:00] I joked, I was like, if I knew I had to move, you know, uh, 800 miles away to talk via, you know, satellite to someone in Atlanta. [00:33:07] Cause at the time they still had most of the anchors in Atlanta at this point, all the anchors are in New York, but at the time they still had a lot of the anchors in Atlanta. If I was like, if I knew this, you know, I, I would’ve moved ages ago, but the, that I did the hit, it went really well. And then they liked me so much. [00:33:22] They called me back that same day to come back and do a segment on a different program. And then they called me back twice more that week. And so it was a week later, I’m in this, this, you know, day long media training thing. And we got a thing from Anderson Cooper and they wanted me to come on for prime time. [00:33:43] And that was a big deal. Right? Like I went on like, you know, like Anderson Cooper, prime time, 8:00 PM. And so. In that case, like I had to buy a shirt from J crew because at the time CNN was in the time Warner center. Well, because I was wearing like, it was a nice hoodie, but I was [00:34:00] wearing a hoodie. I didn’t know I was going to be on TV that day. [00:34:02] And, and they, the, the requests literally came in that day that they were doing the training. And so, uh, let’s say it was funny cause there was a J crew in the time Warner center, which is where CNN was at the time. Now they’re in, in Columbus circle now they’re on another location. Uh, but uh, I had to run into J crew and I like found a shirt that I thought was going to fit. [00:34:19] And I was like, Hey, I need to wear this out. Cause I’m about to go on CNN. And, and, and the, the staff, they were, they couldn’t have been nicer, but it was really, it was really funny, but what they did, and this was the most helpful thing. And I don’t know if this will help you or not. It might be something that makes you go crazy. [00:34:34] But it was so useful. We did mock interviews and they recorded me and then they played it back. And actually, even when we were doing the just test interview stuff, they would stop me every time I would pause or say, um, or anything. And they would interrupt me immediately, but they also recorded me and then made me watch back and would pause every time I did something that wasn’t right and pointed it out to me.[00:35:00] [00:35:00] And it was incredibly painful, but it was the best fucking like experience I’ve ever had. I got so much out of [00:35:07] Brett: There’s an episode of community where Pierce is trying to teach. What’s her name? The black woman. I’m trying to teach her surely trying to teach Shirley public speaking. And he, every time she says, um, I can’t remember what he does, but he does something like just uncomfortably mean. And it sounds a lot like what you’re describing, but if it’s effective, then it’s the only time in community that Pierce did something. [00:35:35] Right. [00:35:36] Christina: No, it totally is. And it’s funny because I’ve seen that episode. I know what you’re talking about and no, I mean, it is, and it, but it was incredibly, incredibly effective. And for me, somebody who tries to think about things, analytically like you do, it was just like, okay, now I can know how to hack this. [00:35:52] Like, like my approach then becomes, okay, how can I make this better? But for whatever reason, I got into the sense and you know, [00:36:00] you’re the same way. Like we’re, we’re good public speakers and, and we, you know, can build up energy and people and whatnot. But I kind of go into this weird mode now where if I see a kid. [00:36:11] A, my energy can come up, be I have like a different way of speaking and pasting. Like I know what to do. And I have like a different approach. Part of that though. A lot of that came from not just that first, you know, in, in, in depth, like hands-on media training thing, although that was really helpful. A lot of it was practice because I would know. [00:36:31] After I did the hit usually, but went well over it. Didn’t and I would watch myself over and over and over and over again. And I still do. And I’m usually like completely aware of exactly how much I fucked up or didn’t fuck up. And, and that can be painful. But I spiced to say, I went on too long about this, but it’s as to say, you’ll get there and it just takes practice. [00:36:51] And the one only thing I would say to you is don’t be too precious and too hard on yourself about having everything be perfect. [00:37:00] Obviously you want the sound to be good and you want your slide timing to be right. But people aren’t expecting you to be like a professional Ted talk speaker. Uh, Hey, that’s a callback. [00:37:11] Um, you know what I mean? Like these, this is your audience, you know what it is, don’t beat yourself up over it. You’ll get there with time. It’s just one of those things. Like any other skill, it takes practice. There are some people who are more naturally inclined at it than others, but nobody is good at this, or as perfect added out of the gate, not a single. [00:37:30] Brett: Okay. So I have two options for segway here, option a speaking of stage fright. You know, what else is crippling [00:37:41] Christina: I love [00:37:41] Brett: or option B speaking of overcoming things, you know, what’s great to overcome a or B [00:37:48] Christina: Let’s do B actually. [00:37:50] Brett: speaking of overcoming things. Um, you know, what else is great to overcome as credit card debt? [00:37:57] Christina: Yeah. [00:37:57] Brett: yeah. [00:37:58] Sponsor: Upstart [00:37:58] Brett: See if you look, if you dread [00:38:00] looking at your credit card statements, you’re not alone. Debt can feel crippling just like stage fright. See, I kind of work both of them in, I recently went from barely keeping up with my credit card statements to having zero credit card balance and fixed monthly payments on what I owed and I’m on my way to debt free. 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[00:39:17] So they know we sent you loan amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other information provided in your loan application. Again, go to upstart.com/ Overtired. Speaking of spending money, how is that? We have like that again, that could go into two different topics. We could talk about, uh, I iPhones, or we could talk about laptops. [00:39:41] Christina’s new laptop [00:39:41] Christina: talk about laptops. [00:39:42] because I talked about my iPhone decisions on rocket for like 20 minutes. And I don’t think anybody cares that I found a way to convince myself to get the iPhone today, even though there’s absolutely no reason to upgrade it. The TLDR is, uh, basically [00:40:00] it will cost me. I will make $40 by buying the iPhone this year. [00:40:04] So I’m getting the iPhone. That’s the only reason I’m getting it. [00:40:07] Brett: Fair enough. That was short. I, I, before we get into the laptop, I will just say I haven’t even watched the keynote and I have no idea what the new iPhone, what, what, I don’t know, what’s new. And I, I find, I don’t really care. Like I just got the 12 plus and I got, I jumped from the 10 to the 12 max pro [00:40:29] Christina: you, you don’t need it. I I’ve said this to other people and I stand by this even though, so there were some camera improvements, but none that I feel are in any way worth, if you have a 12 plus going like higher, or even if you have an 11, I think for most people, I don’t think there’s any, any reason. [00:40:47] And then the other thing is that they have, uh, at least on the pro models, they have a promotion, which is obviously like the higher refresh rate and it’s variable, uh, which is cool. But again, like, I do not think in any [00:41:00] stretch that it is one of those like necessary things. Even at this point, the way apple Is doing, like the way they’re encouraging people to buy from carriers. [00:41:09] Like the default, which is how apple encourages people to buy this stuff. They kind of hide the, the iPhone upgrade plan from you actually. Um, at least in the U S they default at sea, like 30 months, which means like they’re expecting people to keep their phones for two and a half years. So you’re, you’re completely good. [00:41:27] Do you watch the keynote if you want to? Uh, it it’s a [00:41:31] Brett: there any Mac stuff in the keynote or was it all just an [00:41:34] Christina: it was all iPhone? [00:41:36] Brett: Fair enough. I’ll skip. [00:41:38] Christina: Yeah. [00:41:39] Brett: If there was anything truly groundbreaking or important, I would have heard about it on Twitter, but I did [00:41:43] Christina: I was going to say you, what have you, but I haven’t. And we would have talked about it, but no, there’s, I mean, and, and I’m not like saying that it’s like, I’m not. [00:41:49] criticizing, like the stuff seems cool, but it’s just, it’s not one of those necessary things. I think we’ve kind of reached that point now where every couple of years you might have some really big groundbreaking incremental, like [00:42:00] things. [00:42:01] This is definitely an S year, even though they didn’t call it the 12th. [00:42:06] Brett: Okay. Okay. So you got that. We talked to before about this, like a modular upgradable laptop and you got yours. Tell me [00:42:16] Christina: Yeah. Oh my God. I love it. It’s so good. So I got the framework, Cory, Doctorow actually got his the same day I got mine and he just wrote a thing in for his blog. Uh, I’ll find the link. Um, cause it was number one on hacker news for like a really long time. Um, but he, uh, he just got his and he really, uh, liked, uh, likes it too. [00:42:36] So I have to say, is it perfect? There’s no perfect device, but I’m so impressed that this small company managed to do what I haven’t seen. Small companies let alone bigger, like better finance companies achieve very often, which is every promise they made for their 1.0 [00:43:00] they’ve delivered, which is astounding because when, so, so for, uh, for people who are facing. [00:43:06] With what this is, it’s it. [00:43:07] I think It’s at a frame.work I believe is the URL. Um, but this is a, um, an Intel, uh, laptop. So it’s x86. So windows or Linux or whatever, um, that is, uh, thin and light and aluminum, but rather than being the traditional, like everything is glued together. It’s not upgradable, it’s not repairable. [00:43:30] You actually can replace basically any component on it. And in fact, it comes with a screwdriver. Uh, I got the DIY kit, meaning that you could pick and choose what components you wanted. And if you wanted to like, bring your own Ram or hard drive or whatever SSE or whatever, or if you wanted to, you know, um, uh, buy stuff from them. [00:43:49] It’s, uh, they also had these, these ports, which, because it uses a Thunderbolt, uh, for all that they don’t have the certification yet. So they can’t technically claim that they support Thunderbolt port, but they do, uh, [00:44:00] it’ll, it’ll get the certifications in. Um, it will say that now they just can say USB for, um, we’re basically you have these, these plugs that are kind of adapters, um, you know, kind of dongles, I guess you could say, which kind of go in, in the back of, or the bottom of the laptop that could have other output things. [00:44:17] So like I have USBA I have USBC, I have one, that’s an SSD, uh, like an external SSD kind of like a Samsung, um, uh, T uh, drive. I have, uh, you could get one that’s, uh, you know, um, micro SD card slot. Um, they have the, I guess like the, the 3d. You know, printing diagram, if you want to make your own. And they’re open to people creating their own modules, but all the components they’re making are repairable and upgradable. [00:44:46] So like the screen you can take apart really easily. Um, this, the CPU is, um, uh, kind of a custom design, but it is designed in a way that says you could actually take the CPU out of this thing and replace it [00:45:00] with like a different model. Right. Um, they [00:45:03] Brett: old days of PC building. [00:45:06] Christina: completely, but, but in a laptop. And then what’s incredible about it is that it is actually very thin and light. [00:45:11] Like when I showed it to my friend who works at the eff, she, when I told her about this, cause, cause she works with Corey and I was like, Corey got this too. And he really liked it. Um, she was expecting, um, the it to be like bulkier and bigger than it was. It’s not going to be as perfectly like thin and as like a, a Mac book or the, the Dell XPS, which I bought and I’m returning. [00:45:34] But it’s really close and, and it’s a lot better made and it seems like, you know, a lot more finished than you would expect with something like this. So when this company announced that they were doing this, um, a number of months ago, I was like, I really like the idea, but I kind of had a I’ll believe it when I see it sort of approach. [00:45:56] And then I placed an order and, and they’ve been doing the orders [00:46:00] in batches because they want to be able to, you know, they don’t have infinite amount of money and it’s harder for them to get certain components and certain things. So they’ve been taking orders in batches. And so I ordered at the end of July and they said, you’ll get it. [00:46:12] You know, in August I got at the end of August, exactly as promised, there were a couple of revisions that they needed to make based on feedback that they got from users. And so, like, there was a piece of tape inside the box, along with instructions on how to add that to the trackpad mechanism to a D D clamp down a cable, a little bit to, to prevent something that, that had been an issue. [00:46:34] They’ve made some other kind of small refinements to. Um, and, and then there are instructions on their website really well done showing you how to put everything together. Everything went off without a hitch. The only issue I had. And it was interesting. Corey had this problem too, and they actually posted a video, uh, on Twitter to help him out. [00:46:53] And, and they’ve said they’re going to update their documentation. And also, um, stock up on some extra parts of people have this [00:47:00] issue. Is that the way that the wifi and Bluetooth antenna stuff works? The connector types, it’s, it’s a, it’s a common standard connector type. I can’t think of what it’s called. [00:47:09] They, they use them on regular PCs, but basically, um, you have like this, uh, this IM two card that will plug into the laptop, but there are these antenna cables that come from, um, you know, uh, at this point I think you’re usually kind of like mounted in, uh, like the screen chassis or whatever that kind of come down and that they clamp in and they connect in a weird way. [00:47:29] They’ve got these like, uh, uh, metal rivets that have to plug onto the very tiny little. Uh, I guess, uh, you know, uh, tops of, of this card and in my case, I just couldn’t get the rivets to say on. And it was one of those things where if you do it too many times, if you do it the wrong way, I saw this on, on their, um, um, discourse where their forums of stuff for people like, cause this is a common part. [00:47:57] And this happens to people in PC building too. [00:48:00] Like if you do it too much or whatever, you could either break something off or, or, you know, like. You could, you, you could mess things up. And so you would, you would either need to manually kind of solar it on or, or get another cable to try it, to try it again. [00:48:13] And for whatever reason, I was just having a really hard time keeping it on. And then the length of the cables was just a little bit too long. So once I would get it on, I try to insert it in the slot. It would come undone again. And I’m like, okay, how am I going to get this aligned correctly? And, um, you know, snapped ins cause they’re like little buttons at the top of like, like, uh, uh, buttons in the sense of like, uh, like, like a, like a Jean button or something, you know what I mean? [00:48:37] Like, like it’s got, got a rivet basically. Um, but they posted a video kind of showing how to do that. They’ve taken the feedback about how they can make that process better. That was the only thing I had an issue with. I was able to get that done. Everything else. It couldn’t have been easier setting up. [00:48:53] Um, uh, the support from the company is really, really good, and it meets every [00:49:00] promise they made from the fact that they deliver everything and that everything was like, well manufactured and like, well laid out that there was good documentation that the quality of everything is good. Like, I can’t say enough good things about this laptop. [00:49:12] Um, it’s one of those things that you could get it fully built if you didn’t want to go through the wifi, you know, bullshit. But, um, I it’s, it’s fun to build things yourself, even the fully built ones come with, uh, um, a screwdriver and, and it’s, it’s just a standard kind of a Philip, you know, smaller sized Phillips had all the screws and stuff are capacitive. [00:49:32] They even have extra screws. Like when you open it up, you know, in case you lose stuff, um, I think things are well highlighted. [00:49:39] Brett: anything that comes with screws should come with extra screws. [00:49:43] Christina: I agree. And the fact that they’re captive. Was really great. And so I just, I really, I can’t say enough good things about this laptop and just the whole experience with the company. I have to say, like they have far exceeded my [00:50:00] expectations. Um, Linus from Linus tech tips actually invested in them and a friend of mine actually reached out and was like, do you do you know them? [00:50:08] I kind of want to invest. And I’m like, I kinda want to work there. Um, uh, I’m trying to get, uh, the CEO on I’m on a podcast so I could talk to him about all this stuff. Cause I just, I genuinely just am really impressed. So I love it. And um, the, the reviews from other people who’ve been good. Like I really hope this is the sort of thing. [00:50:32] Like, I don’t think this is going to obviously become like the next big, like, uh, major hardware company. No. And, and, and as you have concerns about how they scale and about how they’ll be able to kind of keep this up, but I have to say. I’ve seen so many companies a bigger than this, um, try to approach this kind of like module or repairable thing and fail. [00:50:53] And B you know, upstart companies come out with a cool hardware idea and not even be able to get out the door and not [00:51:00] even be able to meet the minimum expectations. Right. So the fact that they’ve already met them, I’m like, even if this is ultimately not successful, right. Even if this company doesn’t become like massively profitable or whatever, the fact that this out of the gate has. [00:51:14] And that, for the most part, the components they’ve used are standard box standard components and are things that like, they’re making them available to people and they’re making schematics available to repair centers. Like they’re, they’re really, you know, um, like walking the walk when it comes to, uh, the stuff that they support I think is incredibly, incredibly impressive. [00:51:35] And so, um, I, I love it. And if somebody is looking for a windows laptop, that’s a, a good windows, laptop, oral Linux laptop is, um, the Linux support on this is really good. In fact, they worked with some of the distro people and got them early access to hardware so that they could make sure that like the districts were supporting stuff, which is a very nice touch. [00:51:56] Um, if, uh, if you’re in the market for something like [00:52:00] that, uh, I think that it, this is definitely one to look at. Uh, they, they don’t have AMD processors and they don’t have discreet graphics for this model. They might in the future, but the specs, it was it’s identical to the Dell that I got, except the Dell screen is a little bit higher resolution. [00:52:17] Uh, and, and I, I, I much prefer it. So, um, I, I absolutely love it. And if that’s something you’re interested in, um, I definitely suggest checking. [00:52:28] Brett: I it’s very, it’s tempting. Like it sounds so good. What you’re describing, the only reason I would need a Linux machine, like I don’t need a windows machine. The only reason that we’d need a Linux machine is because I’ve been hitting the limitations of running a Synology software and I’ve considered just setting up a server to do all of the, I mean, there’s a lot of stuff I have my Synology doing that. [00:52:54] Doesn’t actually require a NAS at all, [00:52:57] Christina: Yeah. [00:52:58] Brett: like running Docker, for example,[00:53:00] [00:53:00] Christina: same. Right. And, and that’s one of those things and, and I, I you’re [00:53:04] Brett: don’t need a, I don’t need a laptop. I would just end up running it headless anyway. [00:53:08] Christina: that’s true, although what’s interesting about this As you could, and there are people who have just completely like disconnected the screen and, and, and run it like headless in that regard. I [00:53:18] Brett: As a rack server. [00:53:20] Christina: Yeah, [00:53:20] I mean, you could, I mean, like it, there there’d be nothing kind of stopping you if that’s what you wanted to do. [00:53:25] Uh, you could probably find something to be more efficient and, and, and you getting a nook or something. I didn’t tell him look would probably be the way to go for that. But if you did want a laptop for whatever reason, I mean, I don’t know. I like to play with toys. This just, it was such a cool idea that I was just like, I have to, I have to try this. [00:53:45] And after I, I was interested when I first saw it, uh, months ago, I, we might’ve even mentioned it, I think on the, I don’t know if we’d mentioned on the show and I know I mentioned that sweater. And then when, um, some of the reviews from people came out, I was like, [00:54:00] okay, you know what, I’m going to buy this. [00:54:03] I’m going to use my credit card. That gives me the two year warranty. So on top of, you know, the manufacturer warranty, so I’m going to get, you know, a little extra stuff also, you know, I have a credit card. So if something goes wrong, You know, they, they will take care of me again, kind of a callback to our sponsor, because that is one of the benefits of, of having good credit. [00:54:22] Is that your credit card companies, uh, protections on this stuff is usually gonna be better than your banks. So, uh, I, um, I was just, um, I gave it a shot and I’m honestly shocked because I’ve never seen a first gen, especially from like a new hardware company. I’ve never seen them actually deliver on the. [00:54:42] Brett: I’m currently running. I have a 2012 Mac mini. I have an M one Mac mini. I have a, a MacBook pro and a Synology. And I have done have spent all this time with, uh, persistent team sessions [00:55:00] and, uh, sync like VIM setups and making it so that I can basically run all four of these things at once from like one screen. [00:55:11] Like I don’t have any space to add. Any, any more computers right now, but it really is like, I love what you’re describing. It sounds amazing. [00:55:21] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I hope that, you know, like this, like I, I hope that they have other products in the pipeline and who knows. Cause honestly, I mean, you know, they’re doing laptops, but this would be a cool concept for like some sort of server like stuff. You know what I mean? Like, even though the nook is, is pretty good, like I would love to see them take this approach to, you know, the smaller form factor space, for instance, [00:55:44] Brett: Yeah, man, we got through this episode and you know, how many things we actually have to link in the show notes [00:55:51] Christina: like for [00:55:52] Brett: four things and [00:55:54] Christina: but. I know we’re almost done, but I just do, I did want to. [00:55:56] hear about, uh, cause you, you put in there, I talked forever [00:56:00] about my laptop and talk real quickly. If you have time about, um, getting L the M one and returning your Mac book. [00:56:06] Brett: yeah. So like I, when I got my M one Mac mini, I weaned myself off of my, uh, like 2019 MacBook pro and cause Al was still running this like 2012 MacBook pro with an even older Mac book air. Um, Maybe not 2012, maybe like 2014. But anyway, like her, her stuff was outdated. She was running into some hardware problems. [00:56:32] Keyboards were breaking. And I, I thought this is a great time to upgrade her. So I handed her a MacBook pro like a 16 inch with a two terabyte hard drive and 32 gigabytes of Ram like power machine. Right. And she got, she got started on it and I started running into trouble. Was she okay? There were, there were multiple things happening. [00:56:59] [00:57:00] She was running into some, some problems that like the logic board had to replace be replacing that MacBook pro it was. Beach balling, randomly and stuff. Um, she got all that fixed. There were still some quirks. And I, meanwhile, I ran into this bug where if I compiled a universal binary on my M one for mark, it exhibited this impossible to fix a legacy WebKit bug, and I could no longer print or create PDFs. [00:57:32] But if I compiled the exact same code as universal binary honoring and tell machine, it worked fine on all machines. Um, so I kind of needed, uh, an Intel development machine. So I bought an MacBook air for L, which is a far more ideal machine for what she does. [00:57:52] Christina: I was going to say for her it’s it’s [00:57:54] Brett: Yeah, it’s, it’s better. It was a step up. And, and I took back my, my Intel Mac book [00:58:00] pro, and it’s also nice to have a laptop when you’re recording videos. [00:58:05] So you can set up like a studio and, and, uh, hookup have your like, machine right there anyway, like multiple benefits to me getting my Intel machine back. Um, um, I’m super happy, El super happy. And thanks to my great credit. I now have an apple card. Um, Matt upstart is getting their money’s worth today, but [00:58:26] Christina: They really are. But, so, yeah, so you’re able to get the 3% cash [00:58:30] Brett: 3% cash back and I can do like one month or yearly payments, uh, no interest. And so it was easy. I pay, like, I don’t remember what my monthly cost is, but yeah, with no interest, totally affordable. I can just add hardware. It’s a whole new world. [00:58:49] Christina: Yeah, no, that’s awesome. Yeah, I do the, um, I forgot, I somehow messed up and didn’t do it on my iMac that I bought last year, but all the other stuff I buy I do on the free, [00:59:00] like no interest thing for how, whatever period they give me, because I have a pretty high limit on that card. Um, although initially they gave me an insulting and [00:59:10] Brett: mine’s pretty insulting, but it’ll do [00:59:13] Christina: yeah, no, mine was like, not even enough for one apple product. [00:59:16] It was like $750. It was, it was, [00:59:19] Brett: mine’s not that [00:59:20] Christina: I know. I was going to say, and so like after a couple of months, [00:59:23] Brett: off the bat. [00:59:24] Christina: right? So after a couple of months I texted them, uh, through the customer service thing and I was like, Hey, can I get a limit increase? And they were like, here you go. Now it’s $10,000. Okay, thank you. [00:59:33] That’s actually more in line with, with my other credit cards are thank you. I appreciate this because I was when it happened. Well, at first I couldn’t even get it to accept. This was when apple card verse launched. I couldn’t even get it to accept my, um, ID. Like when I tried it kept trying to scan my ID and it didn’t work. [00:59:50] I was like, well, this is the most frustrating, you know, credit card application process process I’ve ever had. It’s honestly worse than like the usual thing, which is like, you know, you enter in your data and then they [01:00:00] come back and in a couple of minutes and there was a period of time when I didn’t have any credit, but now I have quite good credit. [01:00:06] I don’t have a lot of cards, but thanks to American express, I have quite good credit now. And so when I got that low of an amount, I was like, are you serious? Um, but no, they came back. But Yeah. like at this point I always just do the monthly payment thing. Cause why not? Like I could, I could afford to pay it off every month, but if they’re going to give me no interest, like why bother, you know, [01:00:31] Brett: Yeah. I mean, if you were to do it, if you bought like three large pieces of hardware or I have the same deal with my Amazon card, I can do like six to 12 months, no interest. Um, but you get a few large purchases like that and suddenly the. Suddenly, you’ve got 500 bucks coming out every month and, uh, and it adds up in here. [01:00:53] It’ll hurt you in the long run. So you still have to pay attention, like [01:00:55] Christina: Oh, no, you have to pay [01:00:56] Brett: you have to be able to afford it upfront and then choose to pay it [01:00:59] Christina: [01:01:00] no, no. I agree. Which is always my thing. Cause because I didn’t have credit cards for a really long time. So historically I’ve just always gone into things. The idea of like, I have to be able to pay this off either immediately or what I do is I don’t, I don’t carry a balance on my credit cards unless it’s, it’s free interest. [01:01:16] I just don’t carry a balance on them. So, you know, I pay off my bill every single month. So, uh, for me, it’s just kinda one of those things where like, oh, you want, you want to let me, you know, pay off my AirPods max over six months. That’s fine. So in your case, I mean, honestly, like, I don’t know how you feel about this, but I’ve, I’ve had this weird kind of, uh, um, like epiphany about credit cards that used to be like, not super into them. [01:01:42] And now I’m like, if they’re going to give me a really good interest rate, like zero and like, my money will actually be more valuable if I’m [01:01:52] Brett: Turning interest on it at the [01:01:54] Christina: That’s what I’m saying. Exactly. It’s like my money. I can, I can have it invested in my four and my socks and my other [01:02:00] stuff, you know, even in my savings account, uh, which is like almost nothing but whatever. [01:02:05] Like my money is going to be more valuable to me, uh, over time. rather than, you know, paying it all up at once. So take advantage of the fact that many people don’t. Do that and can fall into problems, which I understand. But if you go into it with your eyes open, I think that’s good. So I’m also, I’m kind of relieved for you. [01:02:26] I think like having a, uh, Intel machine again. I think it’s probably, um, [01:02:32] Brett: Well, look, I love my M one Mac mini. [01:02:34] Christina: It’s great. [01:02:35] Brett: most purposes, it’s an amazing machine. I love not having fan noise. It’s super fast. I only ate it. Like I max it out at 16 gigs of Ram, but I rarely hit the ceiling on that. Like, it’s great. But, um, I have enjoyed having zero credit card balance so much that I literally, as soon as a charge shows up on my card, I make a payment. [01:02:59] [01:03:00] Like I pay my credit cards like four times a month just, uh, cause I like getting the points. I like getting, I like getting the benefits, but you know, like I could afford to pay it out of pocket right then. So I just like funnel it through the credit card to get the perks. [01:03:15] Christina: Well that’s exactly. That’s that? That was awesome. Another thing that I came, um, uh, like my epiphany around, I was like, oh, I can make this work for me. There was actually there’s an app. Let me find it. Um, I just, uh, tried it out. It has, uh, some of the stuff they do is free. And then there is like a yearly, you know, thing that may or may not be worth it. [01:03:33] Brett: Nerd wallet. [01:03:35] Christina: no NerdWallet is, is fine, but this is actually different. This is called, let me find it. This is called card point card pointers, and it’s an iOS app. And with the reason I mentioned it is because iOS 15, you know, finally allows actual safari extensions in iOS, like full extension. [01:03:52] And, um, uh, the way that, uh, card pointers, um, works is that if you’re on a website to [01:04:00] make a payment or to buy something, you add what credit cards you have with it, it looks at your perks and then it will tell you which card you should use to earn the most points. [01:04:08] Brett: Nice. Yeah. That’s yeah, I should use that. That would be handy for me. I also need to talk to you about crypto. Can we talk about crypto next episode? [01:04:18] Christina: Let’s definitely talk about crypto next episode. It crashed hardcore today. [01:04:22] Brett: it crashed two days ago. I lost like $70, but it recovered. [01:04:28] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I, the way I look at it is like, at this point, I would just say like, hold, uh, China has just basically made all crypto illegal and So, stuff is crashing hardcore, but [01:04:41] Brett: yeah, So, [01:04:42] Christina: it’ll come back, but we’ll [01:04:43] Brett: I just ha I have general questions about, like, if you were going to invest in crypto, how would you, I have questions, but we’ll get that. That’s a whole episode. [01:04:52] Christina: Yeah, well, that’s a whole [01:04:53] Brett: We’ll annoy people with crypto talk. [01:04:56] Christina: Yes. [01:04:57] Brett: All right. Great, Great, great, chatting with [01:05:00] you. [01:05:00] Christina: great chatting with you. [01:05:01] too. And, uh, uh, happy, uh, sad that like you were too productive at work, but, but happy you’re taking time off also happy that, you know, you’ve, you’ve learned your lesson. [01:05:12] because, um, [01:05:14] Brett: lesson. [01:05:15] Christina: never try as Homer Simpson would say [01:05:19] Brett: Yup. All right, Christina. Seriously, get some sleep. [01:05:23] thank you, Brett. get some sleep.

Christina is a good sport about Brett’s mental state after a couple nights of bad sleep. These two crazy kids keep it together to talk mental health, the good and the grift of life coaching, and do a little sparring over economic systems. Sponsor Sanebox: Inbox Zero is a thing of the past. We’re all so inundated with email now that it’s no longer about responding to everything, it’s about responding only to the important things – the messages that truly matter. Visit Sanebox.com/overtired to learn more, get a 2-week trial, and get a $25 credit toward your subscription. Listener Survey Please help us improve the show by taking a minute to fill out a listener survey. If you do, you could win a $50 Amazon gift card, in addition to the feeling of accomplishment you’ll have for actually finishing something today. Because it’s been one of those days, hasn’t it? Take the survey here. Show Links Overtired Discord Downie Setapp youtube-dl-gui yt-dlp Two Headed Girl Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 254 [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren here as always with the wonderful Brett Terpstra Brett, how are you? [00:00:12] Brett: Hi, I’m good. I’m actually recording from the beginning this time. We’re not missing anything. [00:00:19] Christina: Okay. We’re recording from the beginning. This is good. So we are not going to miss the first 20 minutes of, of, um, uh, pop punk talk. Um, that’s important. Um, but, uh, when actually, uh, you also, you did the thing that we talk about, like, uh, where, um, you’re not saying I’m fucking awesome. Uh, when I actually asked you legit, how you, where you’re like, we need to do a Bret mental health [00:00:42] corner update. [00:00:42] Mental Health Corner [00:00:43] Christina: So, so let’s just get into that right away. [00:00:46] Brett: yeah. Yeah. So when I say I’m good, that’s usually a masking. [00:00:52] Christina: Yes. It’s just what we do. [00:00:56] Brett: Yeah. So, uh, on, I [00:01:00] think Tuesday, I very suddenly went manic, um, in the late, late afternoon, I think it started like, it was this definite switch and I didn’t sleep Tuesday night or Wednesday night at all. And by Thursday I was just a zombie, um, like, uh, Wednesday I was super productive. I did a week’s worth of work, uh, which is good because on Thursday I couldn’t work at all. [00:01:36] But so today is like, I slept last night, I got a good deep eight hours of sleep with crazy dreams. Uh, so now the, like, have you, you’ve had all nighters. [00:01:51] Christina: Uh, yes. [00:01:52] Brett: So the you’re fine up until you sleep. And then when you wake up, then it all hits you. [00:02:00] So right now I’m totally, uh, I’m dragging. It feels like I’m underwater, like fighting for consciousness. [00:02:09] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. So D um, what, what type of weird dreams did you have? Like [00:02:14] Brett: Here’s the weirdest thing is I’m fully aware that I was having weird dreams. I was aware in the dream that this was a weird dream, but I cannot remember what it was about. [00:02:25] Christina: That’s, I’ve had that happen before? Um, I, that’s always the most bizarre thing where I’m like in the dream and I’m like, this is weird and this isn’t what it typically, you know, like dream about. [00:02:40] And I know something with this is off, but then you wake up and you’re like, okay, that was weird enough that in the dream, I was conscious enough to be like, This is a bizarre dream. [00:02:50] And then I’m like, oh yeah, totally lost it. [00:02:52] Brett: Did you ever have dreams? Where in the dream you feel like this is a dream you have all the time. Like you’re going back to someplace [00:03:00] familiar and this is, this is like something you’ve known your whole life and then you wake up and it seems like, like you never had that dream before. [00:03:10] Christina: Yeah. Although my word thing, I guess I would say is I, sometimes I’ve definitely had the, maybe this is what you’re talking about. Maybe it’s slightly different, but I’ve had the thing where I’m in a dream and it’s referencing an earlier dream and it like, maybe even is an earlier dream. And like, and I’m aware of this. [00:03:26] I’m like, oh, I had this dream before. [00:03:28] Yeah. [00:03:28] And now I’m kind of, and it’s not quite a lucid dream, but it is the sort of thing where. I’m like distinctly aware in the dream. At least it seems at that time that I’ve had this dream before. And, and, uh, yeah, when I wake up, I may or may not remember any of it. Um, but at the time I’m certainly like, it’s enough for me to remember now that I can be like, oh yeah, I’ve definitely referenced dreams and other dreams. [00:03:52] But if you were to ask me what those things were, I would have no idea what to tell you. [00:03:55] Brett: Yeah. If I don’t, when I wake up, I will usually for [00:04:00] about five minutes, I’ll remember what I was just dreaming. And if I don’t make a conscious effort to note the dream five minutes later, I can’t remember it anymore. So I actually, if I remember my dream, when I wake up, I like just instinctively like take mental notes on it. [00:04:18] So that, that doesn’t happen. Cause I hate forgetting things. Alzheimer’s is my biggest fear in the world [00:04:28] Alzheimer’s runs in my family. Um, I I’m so scared that that will happen to me. [00:04:34] Christina: Yeah, I, um, I don’t know how much it, it runs in my family and I’m like, my grandmother had that or she might’ve had dementia. I don’t know like what they wound up actually classifying it as, but she, she died of it anyway. And, um, it was terrible. And [00:04:51] Brett: Yeah. That’s my, my grandfather did too. [00:04:54] Christina: yeah. And it’s, I don’t know if it has, if anybody else has it or has had it or not, [00:05:00] but yes, [00:05:00] Brett: Yeah. When I say runs in the family, I just made my grandfather. It’s not like a, a generational thing that happens just, uh, knowing that someone in my family has had, it means that it increases the likelihood that I will have it. My grandmother had some dementia, but it wasn’t Alzheimer’s she had Parkinson’s for like 15 years. [00:05:24] Oh [00:05:24] Christina: And that, that adds its own complexities to it because of what that does. [00:05:28] Somehow, Eugenics [00:05:28] Brett: yeah. Yeah, no, like I w one of the major reasons I decided pretty early on not to have kids is family history, like between heart disease and mental health issues. It, any kid I have is pretty much guaranteed to at the least be neurodiverse. But at worst things like cancer and Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s and bipolar [00:06:00] disorder. [00:06:00] And like, it’s, it’s scary. Like I wouldn’t, I, I do not want to roll those dice. [00:06:07] Christina: Yeah, I can respect that. Um, I mean, I just didn’t want kids. Um, but, but I certainly there’ve been, there’ve been like things in my mind, I guess, that I’ve thought about. I was like, Yeah, you know, I could see that this would be like, uh, a problem, uh, or potentially not maybe a problem, but this could be something like to, to look out for. [00:06:24] Like, I’m sure that my kids would, if I did have kids, I’m sure that there would be. Uh, neurodiverse element there. Um, I have too much like depression and anxiety and OCD and perfectionism shit to let that be completely, uh, like, you know, I don’t know, but at the same time, you never know, maybe you’ll be fine. [00:06:47] Um, cause the rest of my family seems fairly clear on that stuff or more clear, like my sister definitely has some stuff, but what she has is different and probably more difficult to treat. [00:07:00] She’s also refuses to go to the doctor or [00:07:02] Brett: Yeah, that doesn’t. [00:07:02] Christina: So no, it doesn’t. Um, uh, my dad is. Well, I guess ADHD does run pretty strongly family. [00:07:09] My mom doesn’t. [00:07:10] have it. My dad does. Um, and, uh, and my sister does and I do so that would probably be a fairly strong sign that that would be, you know, um, but, but other than that, I don’t know [00:07:22] Brett: Yeah. [00:07:22] Christina: though. I mean, I respect people making that decision and saying, I don’t, I don’t want to, you know, put kids through that or being more honest, maybe about it. [00:07:30] I don’t want to go through that with a kid. Um, me, I just don’t want kids. [00:07:36] Brett: So I had this conversation, uh, the other night with L uh, it was basically a eugenics conversation and I was playing devil’s advocate, um, on the, maybe there’s a place for eugenic side of things and it got real, real shady, real fast. [00:07:54] Christina: I was going to say, I was gonna say, there’s, that’s a cause I’ve taken that position too. In the [00:08:00] past, when I used to kind of be like, this was me in high school, but, but you know, kind of like wanting to be just a contrarian, but yeah. [00:08:08] Brett: So like, I I’m of the opinion that it’s like when it comes to not gene editing so much, but, but being tested for your genetic, uh, proclivities, um, and making decisions is, uh, you should know what the risks are before you get pregnant. And that’s really the big thing for me. And when it comes to like designer babies and everything, I can argue both sides, but, uh, the conversation we were having was, if you knew that, uh, you were going to have, uh, like an ADHD kid or an autistic kid, would you, would you like, would you want the ability to say no? [00:08:52] Christina: right? no? [00:08:53] I mean, w w w w would you do, I mean, look, they already do this, they do this when they, when they check, they test for down syndrome and things like that. And if [00:09:00] they see the, the, the chromosomal deficiency or. That The markers, [00:09:04] or whatever, then there are, that’s one of the reasons why they do those tests as early as they do them. [00:09:09] So that women have the opportunity to, you know, abort the pregnancy. Um, cause that’s what it is like when people talk about abortion, they don’t like to talk about the fact that lots and lots of people have like medical abortions basically, because they’ve seen markers that say the child is not going to be healthy. [00:09:29] Brett: Yeah. Well, yeah. And that’s where it’s a real, real tricky area. Yeah. [00:09:35] Christina: What in there are there, there are some people, I mean, particularly very religious people who will say, um, I didn’t want to know, um, or, or I wouldn’t have made a different decision. There are some people who say, well, I want to know I’m it won’t change my decision, but it will change how I go about dealing with things, which I think is also a valid thing to say, if, if you know this going on. [00:09:58] You know, th they have these markers, [00:10:00] um, there’s your child is going to, again, have something like, like, like down syndrome, then you are going to prepare for the additional cost and the additional challenges and other potential add on health concerns. Right. Because that oftentimes does go along with physical and, um, other, uh, more serious like medical issues. [00:10:20] Um, and so, uh, you know, things that aren’t strictly just, you know, mental, um, but some people don’t want to know that at all. And, and it does that, the line does get really interesting because you have people of all the different communities who will argue, you know, it is, there, there is nothing wrong with this, and this is how people are, and we shouldn’t do anything to it to prevent this. [00:10:46] There are other people who say, well, no, you don’t want people who. You know, going to be born in pain and then, you know, live in, in, in suffering and then die, right? Like, like yeah, [00:10:58] Brett: the question, like [00:11:00] the idea of like finding out something is medically wrong with a child you’re caring and making the decision to abort feels worse somehow than just not wanting a kid and getting an abortion. And like, is there really a difference between getting an abortion because you don’t want to have children and getting an abortion because you don’t want to have that child. [00:11:23] Christina: no, I don’t think there is. I think they’re exactly the same thing. Like one can feel worse, but I think that they’re exactly the same thing. I think [00:11:31] Brett: One just feels more personal. Like it’s an attack. [00:11:34] Christina: Well, yeah, but it’s a bit at bits, but if you think about it in the abstract, you’re kind of saying the same thing. Like, you’re kind of saying, I don’t want the expense. I don’t want the pressure. I don’t want the hassle. This isn’t the right time in my life. Whatever the reasons are you’re making that, this shit, that decision. [00:11:51] Um, if, if, uh, cause you could argue that some people, some people would flip it and some people would say, well, if you know that you’re having a perfectly healthy [00:12:00] child that can survive and thrive and you’re choosing not to bring that into the world, that is worse than choosing not to bring, you know, a child that has, you know, a lot of medical complications, uh, mental or [00:12:11] Brett: elitist. [00:12:13] Christina: it is. [00:12:14] But That’s the whole point of, I mean, a. Our society, this is the society we live in. Um, so, so some people would absolutely say that that choosing to not bring a healthy child from the world is, is worse or every bit is bad to me. I don’t think that there’s a moral difference, I think is the exact same thing. [00:12:33] And I think that it’s a, it’s a completely ethical decision to make if you’re making it yourself. I think that where it becomes problematic [00:12:40] Brett: Oh, God. Yeah. [00:12:42] Christina: when, as it was very common, I mean, China is now dealing with this problem, but you know, the fact that you were only allowed one child and that, that men were so preferred that they had, you know, um, I mean, they were like, you see this in other places too, but you know, like, like ultrasounds and whatnot, you know, portable [00:13:00] ultrasounds and things like that, where women are finding out what the sex of their child is, and then getting an abortion for that reason. [00:13:06] Like, I think that that is, [00:13:08] Brett: it’s that really different though? [00:13:10] Christina: it is though, because it’s not their choice that their government [00:13:13] Brett: oh, I see what you’re saying. [00:13:14] Christina: the government is saying, you can have one child [00:13:16] Brett: Anytime, anytime an abortion decision is made by anyone other than the mother, I’m not okay. [00:13:24] Christina: Yeah. I mean, look, I personally think that if you’re going to, you know, make the decision based on gender and no one else is doing anything. Yeah. That seems a little fucked, but whatever. Uh, but when the government is the one who’s saying, you can only have one child and then you’re having to put the pros and cons and in your mind, because women have been so, you know, mistreated and in our are subjugated to different, you know, like allowances and opportunities than men that you obviously want your child to have the best opportunity. [00:13:55] Then, you know, you wound up, you, Y you wind up fucking society. I mean, that’s honestly, I [00:14:00] think, uh, at an even better like argument for like equal rights than, uh, than anything is to be like, yeah, this is what happens when, when you make it so clear that one, um, you know, uh, sex is, is better than the other. [00:14:15] Brett: Can do, can you imagine if we were doing this show live and had a chat open right now? [00:14:20] Christina: Okay. Well, we still pissed. [00:14:22] Brett: So dear listeners, um, in case you don’t know, we have a discord server and it is chock full of neurodiverse and queer, and generally interesting people, but it’s not super active. Um, like they’re usually on a given day one or two short conversations, and I wish, I wish it were more active without having to actually put any effort in. [00:14:49] I wish that, uh, it just sparked more conversation, but if you have some feelings about eugenics, uh, abortion, come share them, [00:15:00] start a lively discussion. Everyone there is super nice, uh, friendly. They can be stern, but they won’t be mean. [00:15:09] Christina: Yeah. Which has fantastic. [00:15:11] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I love RP. [00:15:14] Christina: Yeah, I love our people too. I need to be more active in the discord. I took discord off my phone. I’m going to put it back on again. Um, but things were getting too much. Um, I was, [00:15:25] Brett: mobile. [00:15:26] Christina: well, it was getting, it was getting just like I had like too many, um, like I, it’s one of those things where sometimes you get like the slack problem, you know, or you have too many of them. [00:15:37] Brett: Yeah. [00:15:38] Christina: My issue Chu. And I talked about this before, so I have like a lurker discord account that is not tied to my actual identity that I like for certain types of like PC, uh, like this is like, especially when I was like console hunting and like PC component hunting. But I like to be in, and then there are there’s, you know, the one that I have that I’m in the overtired one that is [00:16:00] actually attached my real identity and this score, doesn’t let you manage multiple accounts very well. [00:16:05] Like you have to basically have two different instances open. So I have to have to, like, I have to have basically two PWAs, um, uh, to do it. And so it’s, uh, it’s, it’s frustrating that they don’t let you do that. Um, like a better, especially since discord of all of them know that you often want to have a different identity in different groups, because the issue is yes, you can have a different username and different servers, but, and I realize I’m being paranoid here, but I’m also not being paranoid here. [00:16:35] If people want to, they can use different tools to find a list of your usernames and other discords and what other discourse you’re part of. And so it’s one of those things where like, I don’t know, I don’t know. And maybe this is, this is probably more of a me issue than like a normal person issue. I’m not famous or anything, but I’m, well-known enough that [00:17:00] like, there’s just times when you don’t want to be. [00:17:04] Like, there are just times when you just don’t want people to get mad at you. Even if you say something completely fine and then like threaten your, you know, threaten your like employability and shit like that, you know? [00:17:15] Brett: Sometimes you’re just not in the mood for that kind of. [00:17:17] Christina: Exactly. Exactly. Cause I’ve I’ve had instances cause I haven’t had something like, cause I, again, I primarily use like my real name, most places or, or, or I use, you know, film underscore girl, you know, username or whatever. [00:17:29] And, and I was in some forum recently and I was just commenting like a normal customer. Like everybody else, he knows excited to get like my, my product ordered or whatever. And again, I wasn’t mad that this happened. I was actually, um, it’s, it’s always nice when, when people recognize you, but I had a number of people in that chat who are not part of my, you know, typical, normal audience who like knew me and were like, oh, you know, we’ve got somebody, you know, well-known in here. [00:17:54] And I’m like, um, Uh, customer like anybody else, you know? And, and it was super [00:18:00] nice that like, people, like, obviously you like listen to my podcasts and know me from other things. And like, I have no problem with that, but it’s just, it’s sort of this weird reminder. It’s like, okay, you want, I’m not trying to, you know? [00:18:11] Yeah. It just, it’s just, there are times when I would just rather be on my lurker account. [00:18:17] Nerdy, As Usual [00:18:17] Brett: I get it, man. Okay. My, my, my brain is, so I have, I term up, my advisor is showing and there’s like some Jason output from a script and I got totally distracted thinking about, oh, I made a VPN button. So like I told you about this whole like thing where I run Docker on my [00:18:44] Christina: Exactly. Exactly. and then you’re like basically SSH into it to run a tunnel. [00:18:49] Brett: But I don’t have an easy way to check the status to make sure that the Docker image is running, that the ports are connected. [00:18:58] Uh, and in [00:19:00] know, like I have a, uh, terminal, like I can type VPN in my terminal and it’ll send a script to the mini and restart the Docker image, like close it out and start it because, um, our VPN connection expires every 24 hours. [00:19:17] Christina: Oh, that’s So, [00:19:19] Brett: yeah. You know, but it’s not. So I just have a launch D task that, that restarts it every night at midnight, and generally that works, but sometimes it fails to actually restart it. [00:19:31] So anyway, what I did, I added a shell script button to my touch bar. I, and I actually have a real touch bar. I’ll tell you about that later. Um, but on my simulator and on my touch bar, I get a blue icon with a lock. If the VPN is functioning and all of the ports are open, if it, and it checks it every 30 seconds, if at any point it’s not like fully functional, the icon turns orange. [00:19:59] And if I [00:20:00] press and hold it, uh, it will restart the Docker. Image and then give me the status so I can do all of this without having to SSH or screenshare or anything. Um, it’s a very cool little system. I’m very, I’m very pleased with myself. [00:20:19] Christina: You too. That’s awesome. [00:20:21] Brett: Yeah. Um, we’ll talk about laptops in a second. [00:20:26] Christina: Yeah, I am. While you were talking about your VPN button, I was going through My [00:20:30] get hub, um, stars and, um, um, I think I’d had this one before, but it changed names. And so I recently was trying it out cause I needed a recommendation for people. Um, this just reminded me, It’s completely a tangent, but it, it, it, this would be something that actually you would, you, I could see you scripting to your, your stream deck or your, um, your, uh, touch bar kind of set up or whatever. [00:20:51] But, um, you know, we’ve talked about how much we love YouTube DL before and there’s, um, um, the, the gooey that somebody [00:21:00] built for it in, in Python or whatever, like in QT or whatever. Cute. At the Jillian years ago, hasn’t been updated in like four years. And so, um, for people who need like a, cross-platform gooey to recommend to people who don’t want to deal with all the command line stuff there haven’t been a lot of options like on Mac, the best option is Downey, but it costs money, which some people don’t like, [00:21:21] Brett: on set up [00:21:22] Christina: it is on setup. [00:21:23] Brett: I will swear by Downey. [00:21:24] Christina: I, I love, I love, Downey. That’s what I use. But there are times when I’m either on like a, I’m not on a Mac, which is, you know, not super common, but it’s certainly a thing that happens sometimes. And, um, uh, the bigger thing is, but I need to recommend it to people who, for whatever reason, maybe they’re not on a Mac or they don’t want to pay for Downey. [00:21:45] or they don’t for whatever reason, subscribe to set up, which I mean, [00:21:50] Brett: Crazy. That’s crazy. [00:21:52] Christina: look, I agreed some of the best money I spend every month. [00:21:54] Um, I’m like, they’re not even sponsoring us this week or. [00:21:58] Brett: never have. [00:21:59] Christina: He [00:22:00] never had the number sponsored, that’s your right, but I love set up a, they should be a sponsor. Um, but, um, there’s a new one called open. It’s been around for a while, but it’s recently just had some nice updates it’s called, um, eh, the, it used to be called like YouTube DL gooey or whatever. [00:22:18] Um, but, um, they had to change the name because YouTube was trademarked. So it’s now open video downloader and it’s a, it’s, it’s made an electron and no JS, but it’s got a Nice. like modern kind of interface. And I like it it’s, it’s not Downey. Downey is I think still going to be like, you know, for, for Mac users the best and like most, you know, like performance kind of thing. [00:22:44] But I like it it’s it’s well done. And, um, the, the guy is really active on. Um, it’s still using the, the current, uh, YouTube DL, um, binary, but one of the features on the roadmap is to replace it with one of [00:23:00] the UDL forks. That’s added a bunch of really good stuff. And so, uh, and that seems to be more active because even before the whole kerfuffle of the RIA or whoever, NPAA, whoever sending take-down stuff, like it hadn’t been active or super active. [00:23:16] Um, and, um, there’ve been a lot of like, um, you know, PRS that hadn’t been merged and whatnot. So somebody finally, there were two, there, there are two forks and I think that the there’s one, um, that is, uh, that’s more active then. Um, another DLP is, is the one that’s more active cause there’s another one is DL something. [00:23:37] But, um, uh, it might be DLG I don’t remember, but, but anyway, um, whatever the more active one is, um, they, uh, they already have it on, um, Like the, the doc to, to, um, integrate into kind of replace because it’s, uh, cause like, I think it’s DLP. I believe that’s the one where it has like the option to, to do, [00:24:00] um, like, um, ad blocking and things like that. [00:24:02] Like when you download stuff or when you’re doing other things, so sponsored block, I believe it’s called so [00:24:09] Brett: Nice. Wow. That, yeah. W I, I lost track. I was looking at your stars via our website where Christina’s stars are in the footer. Um, which, which one is the, the nice, uh, interface you were talking about? Cause there’s like a WX Python. [00:24:28] Christina: yeah. And that’s not the right one it’s I put it in our show notes and our Quip. It is, it is, is the jelly 2000 to YouTube yell. And I believe that 2002 means the person was born in 2002, which, um, it’s horrifying, um, on a lot of levels, but also as persons, very talented, so [00:24:49] Brett: cool. Cool. [00:24:51] All right. So my first big project at work, uh, I just got word from the highest level [00:25:00] person that actually interacts with my team. So the CMO, uh, uh, loved my love, the Jekyll set. Hi bill. [00:24:51] Your Employer and Your Mental Health [00:25:09] Christina: nice. [00:25:10] Brett: Like there were a few, it was, it was mostly functional on Monday. And then I went and manic and worked on it all through. [00:25:20] Monday night, Tuesday night, uh, I added search full like lunar based search. I added, I made, I made the menu like super cool, responsive, like, you know how, like you shrink the screen down and you get the hamburger menu. This one, like as menu items fall off, like puts it into an overflow hamburger menu. Uh, so you can, it doesn’t all happen at once. [00:25:45] And I did a bunch of styling, did a bunch of, I wrote a plugin that if you set a front matter tag on a markdown post, it will separate, it’ll find all of the, uh, H [00:26:00] twos or you can tell it in, in the plugin, do you use H three or four and it will split them up into slides and give you like it’s four tutorials. [00:26:10] So then you get like the interest slide with a big begin button and you can page through the sections and. Slides. So it’s like an automatic one page app for every tutorial we’re putting on the site. It’s it was awesome. I’m very proud of it. Uh, you know, like I got to the, I had a, uh, one-on-one meeting with my manager, uh, halfway through this manic phase and I was, I, I was showing him all the stuff I’d done and he was super happy and I, I almost decided right then to explain why I was getting so much done and what the other side of it would be, and just be like upfront about the bipolar thing I decided [00:27:00] not to, because anytime I make life decisions during a manic phase, I’ve learned to question them, [00:27:07] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Cause that could have gone either way. Like if you like And have a good relationship with your manager, then I think that in some cases that, would actually be like a beneficial thing to have on the other hand, it, depending on how well, you know, the person and other things like that could cause some people to treat you weirdly and [00:27:25] Brett: was my concern. [00:27:26] Christina: want yeah, exactly. [00:27:27] I would say, cause it might be the right, Um, you know, like decision, but it might not be, [00:27:33] Brett: I’m not simpatico with my manager. Like we get along. [00:27:38] Christina: but it’s not that relationship. [00:27:39] Brett: Yeah. I don’t feel in any way personally connected to him. Uh, I don’t feel like we get each other on a personal level. [00:27:48] Christina: Right. So in that case, I think that it was a good thing that you opted to. And I would say even regardless, even if it was a thing that you did eventually decide, you wanted to share. I think that it was good that you had the [00:28:00] forethought to be like, you know what, when I’m manic, don’t make these decisions. [00:28:03] Because even if it is one that you want to make, you should make it, then [00:28:06] Brett: The benefit would be when I hit like, like severe depression and I spend one to two weeks unable to even like go into my office because it just seems overwhelming and bad. Like it would be nice to be able to honestly convey what was going on. Um, like I can, in those times I can sit through a zoom meeting. [00:28:32] Um, I can even, like, if you give me a very specific, uh, easily accomplished task, I can do it, but I’m not in a place where I’m going to take like initiative. And some things are going to take longer than usual and being able to just say, Hey, yeah, you remember like two weeks ago when I did like a month worth of work, uh, I need you to recognize that, uh, I’m not going to be working for a week now. [00:28:59] Christina: Right. [00:29:00] And, and I wonder if like that would be the right time, like when you’re in a depression to maybe have that conversation, um, versus when you’re in a manic state. [00:29:08] Brett: I just feel like it would go over better and a manic state when I’m flying through work and I’m showing them all this great stuff to tell them at that point, like, here’s, here’s why this great stuff that you love is happening. Uh, and just so you know, in the future, there will be the opposite happening. [00:29:29] I just feel like it would go over better than it would after like three days of being unresponsive and pissing people off. Then like, then it feels like an excuse instead of a warning. [00:29:41] Christina: right. Or maybe the best time if you’re going to have a conversation at all is when neither of those things are happening [00:29:46] Brett: When I’m totally stable. [00:29:47] Christina: When you’re completely stable. [00:29:48] and you’re able to say, look, you might have noticed these two things and, and I can be incredibly productive and I can do all this stuff. [00:29:55] The downside of that is there is also maybe periods where I’m not as [00:30:00] responsive and, um, I’m not as productive. So just to kind of set the standard of what you can expect, which is to me, it would basically kind of be like, Hey, expect the same output of me that you expect from anyone else. Just know that it might be delivered in different ways. [00:30:16] There might be periods of time when I’m over productive and there might be periods of time when that’s not going to be sustained, but. [00:30:25] Brett: It’s going to come out eventually. I’m going to have to, if it were to, if I were to be faced with it, like if someone said, Hey, what’s going on? I have no problem with being honest. It’s a matter of whether I’m going to volunteer the information or not. [00:30:40] Christina: Yeah, no. And I think that that’s a really valid thing cause I’ve certainly, I’ve had both experiences. I’ve had people be very understanding and I’ve had people be very not understanding. And then I’ve also had this fear in the back of my mind, where if you’re too open about it, even if they’re understanding they then mentally decide that they’re not going to give you more things to work [00:31:00] on. [00:31:00] And they’re, they’re going to try to right. Exactly. I mean, but you know that they’re, they’re going to mentally kind of take on the thing of, oh, we don’t want to give you too many things because we’re trying to help you out. [00:31:12] Brett: Yeah. [00:31:13] Christina: So. [00:31:14] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, there’s this weird line between understanding and support and, and pity and, uh, treating someone like they’re disabled. [00:31:26] Christina: Right. [00:31:27] Brett: Like you can make accommodations, but some certain amounts of like proactive accommodations are unwelcome. [00:31:35] Christina: I agree. I, 100% agree because sometimes I’m like, I don’t actually want your accommodation. I just want you to have understanding, um, that, you know, this is a reality, I will, I’m an adult and I will take care of things. You know, what’s what I’m going to get done. I’m going to get done. Just know that if I’m telling you that something might be like an issue that, you know, like. [00:31:58] Brett: This happens in my [00:32:00] relationship too. Like especially, uh, like a couple of days into a manic phase, I become very reclusive and introverted and like, I will sit and code for 12 hours straight. Uh, but like talking to people becomes very difficult. Uh, plus I get super rambly and like, so L when Al is in like a really good emotional place, she. [00:32:30] Tris or at least she used to like try to do whatever I needed to make it. Okay. And that makes me feel worse. What I really need is two to four. So to have honest communication acknowledge what’s happening, uh, and then be able to just pull back and not feel like I’m damaging anyone else’s life and just getting what I need when I need it. [00:32:59] And not having [00:33:00] someone try to proactively fix anything. I just, we were really good at it. Now we both have our, our rough, our rough patches, uh, pretty regularly. And sometimes we go through rough patches at the same time, but like we’ve learned to acknowledge, make sure the other person knows that you love them no matter what. [00:33:20] And then kind of just fuck off and let people deal with their shit. [00:33:24] Christina: That’s really great. [00:33:26] Brett: Yeah, we’re doing a podcast right now. [00:33:28] Christina: Oh, are [00:33:29] Brett: we haven’t published it yet where we’re doing recordings because over the five years we’ve been together. Like we are very different people that learned new ways to communicate and to be in a relationship, uh, with someone very different. [00:33:48] We have certain similarities that are very, uh, very strong and, but we figured out ways to communicate and ways to deal with [00:34:00] conflict and, and all of these things that are very, uh, specific to like neurodiverse couples, neurodivergent couples. And, and so we’re doing a podcast. It’ll, it’ll be like short episodes, but we’re just going to talk about things. [00:34:16] We figured out things, we learned things we’re working on and, uh, and, and just kind of document you ever heard two headed girl. [00:34:24] Christina: I have not. [00:34:25] Brett: Uh, Alex Cox and, and Maddie, uh, do you, uh, it it’s a similar format to what they do. Uh, I’ll link it if anyone’s curious, but it’s, uh, uh, uh, a non-binary couple and just, uh, how their relationship works. [00:34:41] Christina: That’s awesome. [00:34:42] Brett: Yeah. Alex Cox is awesome. Do you know Alex? [00:34:45] Christina: I do know Alex? They’re really cool. [00:34:47] Brett: Oh, she’s in our discord. I think [00:34:49] Christina: I really. [00:34:50] Brett: he, they are in our discord. I think, I think, yeah, I’m forgetting pronouns, but [00:34:57] Christina: yeah, I thought it was there. but I don’t want [00:34:59] Brett: yeah, I think it’s [00:35:00] there. [00:35:00] Christina: be incorrect. Yeah. [00:35:01] Brett: it’s there. Um, anyway, where are we? What’s happening? [00:35:05] Christina: I don’t know. Do we, do we need to go into a sponsor? Read? [00:35:07] Sponsor: Sanebox [00:35:07] Brett: Oh, yeah, let’s do that. Um, uh, email, like when I’m manic, I, I don’t check my email. I totally forget about it. And things pile up. Um, uh, fortunately I have this thing called SaneBox that automatically sorts out all of my unimportant emails. Uh, I think everybody though gets too much email. Um, but how much of it actually warrants a notification or an unread badge on your, in your dot. [00:35:42] Uh, that’s kind of where SaneBox comes in. You can think of it as an EMT for your email as messages flow in SaneBox does the triage for you sifting only the important emails in your inbox, and then everything else goes into a sane later folder. So when you sit down or your email, you know [00:36:00] exactly which messages you need to pay attention to right then, and then when you have the time and the space and the inclination, you can go through the unimportant stuff. [00:36:10] Um, it also has nifty features like sane black hole, where you can drag messages from annoying centers. You never want to hear from again. Uh, and then there’s one called sane reminders that, uh, you can have it ping you. If you send an email and you don’t get a reply within a certain period of time, a way to like, be able to send it and forget it, but not lose it. [00:36:33] Um, and best of all, you can use SaneBox with any email client on any computer or phone anywhere you check your email and I’ve been using it for years. And I recommend it to literally everybody, my entire email workflow is based around it. Uh, one of my favorite features is snooze. Uh, instead of relying on different email apps with their various implementations of snooze, I can create custom mailboxes with [00:37:00] custom timers, like three hours tomorrow or next week. [00:37:04] And then I just move a message from my inbox or from my same later folder into any one of these folders. And when their timer is up, that the message moves back to my inbox as an unread message. Uh, and this works no matter which male client I’m using. So I get a consistent implementation across everything. [00:37:22] And in my favorite mail app, MailMate on my Mac. Uh, there is no snooze, so it basically adds news to apps that don’t have it. Um, see how SaneBox can magically remove distractions from your inbox with a free two week trial visit sanebox.com/overtired today to start your free trial and get a $25 credit that’s S a N E B O x.com/overtired. [00:37:53] Excellent to have you as a sponsor. SaneBox and I seriously do recommend it. [00:37:58] Christina: Thank you. [00:38:00] SaneBox [00:38:00] Get Yourself an Icon Designer. And A Housecleaner. [00:38:00] Brett: You want to know one of the decisions I did make while I was manic? [00:38:03] Christina: I do. What, what, what did you buy? [00:38:06] Brett: Uh, I hired, I hired a guy. [00:38:09] Christina: Nice. Okay. So you want a person wondering. [00:38:12] Brett: Yeah. So a while back, uh, I got this random email from a guy who’s like, Hey, uh, he saw that I was trying, I was working on a new icon for Mart. Uh, it hadn’t been updated in like a decade and it was time for a new icon. [00:38:30] And I had some ideas that I liked. Um, my favorite one though, uh, I loved it. I put it out on Twitter for feedback and was immediately sent a link to another company that had almost the exact same icon. So it was like back to the drawing board. I made some modifications. Didn’t didn’t ever come to something that I want it because it’s a big deal. [00:38:54] When you change an icon that some of your customers see every day, [00:39:00] 90% of people do not react well to any change, even if it’s better. But, uh, this guy emails me. He’s like, Hey, I took your, your design. And I, I ran with it and he sent me a new icon for mark and we went back and forth and totally for free. [00:39:20] I, uh, I, I had a new icon that I then published and I got mixed reactions. Like I said, people don’t love change, but everyone’s gotten used to it now. I’m super happy with it. Um, if you want to see the new icon, it’s at the bottom of the Quip document. Um, and then, uh, he offered me one for bunch for free again, and I also liked it better than what I had. [00:39:48] So the next release of a bunch is going to have, uh, a new icon. Um, So while I’m manic, I’m looking at envy ultra in my dock and realizing I made the [00:40:00] NBL track on, I do not like it. It was like we spent so long trying to decide, and this is after spending months trying to pick a better name. [00:40:09] Christina: Correct. [00:40:10] Brett: Well, then we spend a month trying to come to an agreement on what would make a good icon and colors and, and focus and all of these things. [00:40:21] Eventually we came to like lowest, common denominator, something, both Fletcher. And I agreed. Wasn’t awful. Um, but I don’t love it. And, uh, so I decided, Hey, this guy has done two apps for me for free. I love his work and I want to pay him. I want to pay him. And I want to stop having to think about and be ultra, hire it out. [00:40:45] And so I, I asked him for an estimate, he came back super low ball. Uh, like I, I. He undervalues his work. So I offered him, uh, about 25% more than he asked for. And [00:41:00] he, he took the deal and then I wanted to send him money in advance and he’s like, I don’t work that way. You pay me when I’m finished. Um, I said, okay, but I’ve already got the money set aside for him. [00:41:10] Um, I’m excited. I just love the idea of not having to think about it. [00:41:16] Christina: Yeah, [00:41:16] no, I like that too. I mean, and also, I mean, this is also why it’s great to just like, you know, pay people who are really good at what they do. Like, just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should, um, it doesn’t mean you’re the best person for it. If you have other opportunities, I love, I, it was really hard for me to kind of get to that place to realize, oh no, I can pay someone to do this and they’ll be better at it. [00:41:37] Like, I don’t have to do this all [00:41:38] Brett: Like [00:41:39] Christina: So proud of you. This is exactly what I was thinking. I was like, I love having a cleaner come in. I love it. [00:41:45] Brett: Yeah. [00:41:46] Christina: It’s not my favorite thing to do. So why not pay someone like a good amount of money to do it? [00:41:51] Brett: Yeah, we booked a house cleaner and they were booked out until I think this month, I think September will be the first month that we [00:42:00] actually have a house cleaner come, but L a is very, she gets very nervous about other people, uh, coming into what she considers a messy home. So the idea of having a cleaner, like she had to get the house clean enough to have a cleaner come in. [00:42:17] Uh, but we had, we threw a party around my birthday and, uh, as preparation for the party, we did a deep clean on the house and we’ve kept it there ever since. And so we’re finally at a place where she’s comfortable bringing in a professional cleaner. So for like a hundred bucks a visit, we get a deep clean on our house and I’m looking forward to it. [00:42:41] Christina: Yeah, that’s awesome. Um, and, uh, um, hopefully it, cause my mom is that way about like, being like really like not wanting the house to be in a certain state, you know, for the cleaner to come in. I’m less that [00:42:55] Brett: Yeah, I [00:42:56] Christina: where like, I’m like, don’t care. I mean, I will [00:42:59] Brett: do it. [00:43:00] I don’t care. [00:43:00] Christina: I will pay for like the deep clean, you know, if it’s really bad, then like you pay for somebody to come in and do a deep clean first. [00:43:06] And then once they’re at a baseline, then, you know, you pay like less and they’ll come in. But yeah, I definitely am at that point where I’m like, I do not care. [00:43:14] Like I respectfully I’m like, you know what? This is, this is my, this is why I’m sure you’ve seen worse. Um, and, uh, and if you haven’t, I trust that you’re not going to tell me. [00:43:25] And, um, you know, we don’t need to be, we don’t need to be friends. Like it’s okay. [00:43:30] Let’s Talk About Coaches [00:43:30] Brett: I had, uh, someone I interviewed for a systematic, uh, started their career out as like an organization coach, uh, and someone who would like help people figure out their very messy homes and how to, how to gain sanity. And in the process, she realized that most of her clients were add. Um, and, and she became very interested in ADHD as like, how does she. [00:43:59] [00:44:00] Uh, how does she help people with ADHD in a way that, uh, she wouldn’t help a neuro-typical and now she’s a full-time ADHD coach and has gone into like all, all in on the ADHD, uh, uh, management, which is, I feel like you and I were both talking about housecleaning and we’re both coming from a place of a pretty typical ADHD, housecleaning, um, uh, habits. [00:44:31] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I could probably use, I don’t know. I’ve heard of people talking about their ADHD coach and I think that if it’s the right person, I could actually see it. Maybe being useful. Part of me though, wonders, like, and I’m not talking about this person because this person seems like she was starting to do something else. [00:44:44] And, and, and like really realize that like there was another value add thing there, but for some people I do, and this, this could just be in, this could be another thing that gets me in trouble with people, but I do kind of feel like it’s a grift. [00:44:58] Brett: How [00:45:00] ma how, how is it a grift? [00:45:02] Christina: Okay. Well, I think that coaching in general, there’s a certain grift? [00:45:05] aspect. I think that some coaching is really great. Like I think there’s some executive coaches and some people who do that sort of stuff, who can be really good. I think that there are also a very large number just because it’s not regulated in any way of people who just flat out are selling snake oil, [00:45:22] Brett: Yes, let’s acknowledge though that first part, because I know some very [00:45:27] Christina: as do I, as do I, as do I, and, and, and so I I’m, I’m not, not acknowledging that. I just want to say that. I, I think we should also acknowledge that the good people are few and far between because it is unregulated and there’s a lot of snake oil out there that, and, and that, to say that it’s few and far between doesn’t mean there’s still not like thousands and thousands of great people. [00:45:51] It just means that it’s such a big industry. That finding that can be maybe more difficult and that oftentimes the ways that people find those things are [00:46:00] optimized for the snake oil versus the quality means you usually need to have a personal referral. So when I th and I see people like doing ADHD coaching, my initial instinct is to be like, okay, shouldn’t that be something you should be talking about with your therapist? [00:46:17] Brett: You know, what’s a horrible grift. Wealth coaching these, these, uh, there’s like YouTube channels and self-help, uh, uh, offshoots of them where they basically target poor people with the promise of becoming a billionaire. And here are all the secrets you need to know. And there’s like this YouTube channel that does videos, like here are seven things that poor people do that rich people don’t and it’s the most, like, [00:46:49] Christina: Um, [00:46:49] Brett: just it’s horrible. [00:46:51] Like this stuff is horrible. And the fact that you’re preying on people who already don’t have enough money and you’re [00:47:00] preying on their like emotional need for relief. [00:47:03] Christina: Yup. [00:47:04] Brett: That is horrendous to me. That is despicable. [00:47:07] Christina: No, I, 100% agree with that. Um, I think that, [00:47:10] Brett: there is no path from low-income to billionaire like that doesn’t exist. [00:47:16] Christina: um, [00:47:17] Brett: Even the lottery might get you to a millionaire, but after taxes and, and typical monies management, [00:47:24] Christina: to two billionaire, probably not there, uh, if you’re talking like genuinely coming from like absolutely nothing. [00:47:33] Brett: I’m talking no inheritance, no property. Low-income. [00:47:37] Christina: I’m not going to see there. I’m not going to say there’s no path. I’m going to say that it’s, it’s remarkably, that the people who do find that, um, who are usually going to be founders have other, um, things going for them that, uh, not maybe inheritance to other stuff, but, but have opportunities and have other like help that is either going to be exceedingly [00:48:00] rare. [00:48:00] Um, or, uh, that comes from Like those associated privileges. Uh, in general. I think that you’re correct. I just don’t want to blanket say that there’s no path. I think [00:48:10] Brett: Like you’re describing, you’re describing the American dream that we’re all sold. This idea that if things go well for you, if you work hard, [00:48:20] Christina: well, no, I’m not, I’m not talking. No, I’m not talking about meritocracy or the American dream. I’m not saying if you work hard, I’m saying if you’re lucky, [00:48:26] Brett: Yeah. There’s a lot of luck. Maybe, maybe you come up with a great idea and. You get investors and maybe you get lucky enough to make one of the million startups out there, actually succeed. And, and, and, and then based on like the American definition of success, these days, you sell your company, um, and then you have a nest egg to start another company, and then you can have side hustles and you’re still not going to become a billionaire. [00:48:56] Christina: Uh, probably not, but, but there, um, I [00:49:00] don’t know. I mean, [00:49:00] Brett: Like there are one or two people in the us that maybe have followed that path. And they’re, they’re frequently held up as [00:49:09] Christina: I agree, I’m just, [00:49:11] Brett: this is possible for everyone. It’s [00:49:13] Christina: no, I know it’d be clear. It’s not possible for everyone. It’s not possible for most people’s on post possible. Like almost at all. I just. [00:49:19] want to, I just. When I hate like speaking in absolutes, being like, there’s No. possible way, period. It’s like, is it going to happen? I think that you do have a better chance of winning the lottery. [00:49:29] Um, and, and I do agree with you that the people who are giving that sort of coaching advice, it’s also dumb the wealth coaching stuff, because most of those people, a they’re making their money. They’re making their wealth off of selling people, how to be rich, which is like the one of those common scams of all, but B they are not billionaires. [00:49:45] Billionaires do not teach classes like that errors. Um, if they are not in wealth management, themselves and investors and people like Warren buffet who have a very deep understanding of how these systems work, if they’re not market makers in the traditional sense, [00:49:59] Brett: you imagine [00:50:00] Warren Buffett offering a seminar? [00:50:02] Christina: God, a Warren buffet, masterclass. The thing is, and there’d be no way. Right. Um, and masterclass is like, you know, seen as like the legit one, right. And there’d be no way that he would do a masterclass. Um, he’s worn fucking buffet. He does a, he doesn’t need the money. And like, it also like lowers his, like it would cheapen him somehow. [00:50:20] Capitalism v. Workers of The World [00:50:20] Christina: Um, so there’s no way that he would do that. But, but beyond that, like billionaires, because as, as you said, in most cases, it does follow generational wealth and follows other things. Um, people who are, but there are people who have had fame and have had money other way who have been millionaires for instance, and that have gone on to be billionaires, which is very impressive in and of itself. [00:50:46] Uh, I, I, again, I’m not saying that that that’s something that normal people can follow, but I don’t actually have disrespect and I don’t want to discount the hard work of somebody who, you know, like might’ve come from, um, You know, some [00:51:00] money and, and had some opportunities, but turned, you know, that thousandfold, right? [00:51:04] Like, like, you know, that, that that’s nothing to, to, uh, to sneer at, but those people have wealth managers. Like they’re not, you know what I mean? Like they have money, they have finance people. They have people who are, who they literally employ to make them a good return on their investment. Like they literally have people who like manage this for them. [00:51:26] Brett: and they can afford those people. Like what depresses me is, uh, people who work two or three jobs, uh, and, and make minimum wage and can barely pay their rent. Like they’re working hard if the American dream is true and they’ve, they’ve gone out, they’ve got the jobs and they’re working more than full-time. [00:51:48] They should be able to at least eat out a comfortable life. Uh, in my opinion, you should be able to work one full-time job and have a comfortable life. Uh, it’s [00:52:00] depressing to me. It’s so rare that anyone gets ahead. And when someone does a EV it’s held up for everyone else, as the example, if you keep doing what you’re doing, you too can be like this person. [00:52:15] And it’s not fair. It’s it’s, it’s a lie. It’s just, it’s a lie. [00:52:21] Christina: It is a lie. It is a lie. Um, there are people who get lucky. There are people. I don’t think it was always a lie. [00:52:27] I think that there was a time when it was more possible. Like my grandfather did it. Um, he also wound up dying. Having embezzled a bunch of money from the business. No, but he embezzled from himself, right. [00:52:43] He embezzled from the company business. So my dad was left holding the bag cause my dad was an idiot and said that he’d be personally liable for and for business, for, you know, um, like, uh, you know, money incurred by the bit like desert by the business, which was stupid on his part, but like never do that. [00:52:59] [00:53:00] Um, but my, you know, But like my grandfather literally did go from not having shoes to being one of the more prominent people in Atlanta business. Um, you know, like Ted Turner was at Ted Turner was at his funeral. Um, like, so [00:53:19] Brett: it was still, it was still rare at the last turn of the century, but it was definitely, uh, there, there, there were more paths than. [00:53:31] Christina: Yes, exactly. And that’s all I’m saying, like now, now what my grandfather did, you wouldn’t be able to do. And even though like the way that it, that it ended up as is not one of those things where I’m like, I’d be like, oh yeah. So, um, you know, uh, he, everything was so good cause I certainly the generational wealth aspect of it certainly didn’t that didn’t happen, um, with us. Um, it was certainly one of those, like I’m, I’m I have it I’m spending it. I have a certain lifestyle on paper. It was just, like on the OCU and cable dies and, and, uh, and Julie finds [00:54:00] out, oh, actually he was broke. The whole, he had gone into debt. Real estate is one of those businesses where that can happen. [00:54:05] Um, but it is still one of those things where in one generation he went from, again, like literally not having shoes to, you know, dining with and being part of like this in club of people who did have generational wealth. Which is interesting and it’s fascinating to me cause I don’t know how he did that. [00:54:25] I wish that I hadn’t been five years old when he died, because I would love to know like how he managed to do that. Especially since he was like, I don’t, I don’t even, I don’t even think he was 70 when he died. So, [00:54:37] Brett: Um, I’m just, [00:54:38] Christina: it, but, [00:54:38] Brett: I’m going to end this conversation with, uh, I’m. I’m just going to say it. I wholeheartedly believed that capitalism is bad and it does. Uh, so hit me up in discord. If you disagree, [00:54:53] Christina: uh, I mean, I don’t agree with that. Um, I don’t think that capitalism, is the end all be all, but, uh, I think that, [00:55:00] uh, that pure [00:55:01] Brett: capitalism, isn’t a Bismal failure for 90% of the population. We could all be better off. [00:55:08] Christina: we could be accepted. I wouldn’t, but the pure communism and pure socialism isn’t isn’t good. [00:55:14] Brett: No democratic socialism works, though. It does. [00:55:18] Christina: It does. [00:55:19] that has a lot more in common with capitalism than. [00:55:23] Brett: It does it, it has a market. And it has, uh, your basic tenants of, uh, of the, the major difference is that the means of production people aren’t exploited. And that is where capitalism really capitalism can’t exist without exploitation. Uh, it it’s, it’s the core tenant of capitalism is that you pay people as little as you can to make as much money as you can off of their work. [00:55:54] And like, you can only do that for so long before things, uh, before the, the [00:56:00] wealth inequality grows to a point where everything’s a lie. [00:56:05] Christina: Although. Yeah. Although I would say that, I think that if you ask people like, like Adam Smith and other like famous economists, if they would look at the current system as it is in the United States, I think that they would argue that it is not an actual. Like interpretation of capitalism, that, that the markets are not equal. [00:56:23] And that there are like, you know, there are other forces at play that have made the income inequality as bad as it is that there’ve been, you know, that the system that we have is actually worse than a pure capitalism play because instead of having, you know, markers there to try to balance things on behalf of people who don’t have as much, it goes in the other way where we have like the finger on the scale to give more to the people who already have things, [00:56:50] Brett: Yes, but that is, I mean, if you look at the, what is purely capitalism, [00:56:56] Christina: that’s not, but that’s not like if you, if again, like [00:57:00] we don’t need to get into this whole thing, but that’s [00:57:01] Brett: too late, we already did, but we only have three minutes left. [00:57:05] Christina: Okay. Well, anyway, that’s not pure capitalism though. Like the, the, the, the market is not supposed to, um, have its finger on the scale to benefit the others. [00:57:15] Pure capitalist system would be like, uh, Like a, an even income tax, right? Like a flat tax. Like that would actually be a pure capitalist thing, which just as many wealthy people would very be, would be very angry about because they would wind up paying more in taxes than where they are. Now [00:57:31] Brett: you’re talking about like, like capitalism on paper, [00:57:34] Christina: I’m talking about like, I as like an economic system. [00:57:38] Brett: but the on-paper version is almost guaranteed. Alec Marx predicted it, that it’s almost guaranteed to become what we have today. Like it doesn’t function in a vacuum. In order to progress it, all of these, all of these fingers on the market and on, [00:58:00] uh, on, uh, things that cause wealth inequality are basically exacerbated and created as a result of trying to, I mean, the goal is always to make more, the goal is wealth. [00:58:14] You’re going to do whatever it takes. You’re going to break whatever rules you have to. [00:58:18] Christina: No, because there is like the whole issue of, of equilibrium. And so, I mean, again, I’m just like saying like I disagree with Karl Marx. I, I, I actually have, I, I’m not a Marxist I democratic socialism. I can agree with, I’m not gonna, I’m not going to be down personally. I’m not going to be like Karl Marx was, was right. [00:58:36] Cause no, he wasn’t. Um, he is theoretical every bit, as much as Adam Smith was. And, and so I don’t know, I feel like that we don’t have your capitalism. And so it’s it’s, but we don’t have, you know pure any of these systems. I think that there’s. But when you, when you mentioned yourself and you’re saying democratic socialism, I’m just pointing out that that has a lot more in common with capitalism than it does with communism.[00:59:00] [00:59:00] Brett: I I know, [00:59:02] Christina: I’m just saying. [00:59:03] Brett: I know I’m too tired to make a good argument. [00:59:09] Um, uh, so there’s this, uh, listener survey that in addition to sharing your thoughts with us on discord and leaving more iTunes reviews, we haven’t gotten a fund review since July. So get to it people, I think you can leave more than one, two. So come back. [00:59:09] Let’s Wrap It Up [00:59:26] Brett: Do do it again. Anyway, um, uh, backbeat media, who we work with for all of our sponsorships has a reader survey. Uh, that will help them and us, uh, make a better podcast and get better sponsors and, and serve you. If you take the survey, you get entered for a $50 Amazon gift card, but I really, I want you to do it because you love us, uh, and let the money be secondary. [00:59:56] So there will be a link in the show notes. I would read it out [01:00:00] loud, but it’s a survey monkey T V B H V L three, that you’re not going to remember. So check the show notes, click the link, take five minutes. Tell us about yourself and what you like or don’t like about the podcast. And, uh, we will compile all of your feedback. [01:00:17] If, if you leave clever comments and I have access to them, I will absolutely read your shit on the air. Um, so if you don’t want that, it started out with just between you and me. Um, but yeah. [01:00:33] Christina: you like don’t read. [01:00:34] Brett: That link will be in the show notes. Please take it. Please help us out. Um, like, and subscribe and click the notification. [01:00:43] Oh, wait. That’s YouTube. I watch too many YouTube [01:00:46] Christina: but I know I was going to say like in subscribe, I, and what was sad is that I was like, oh yeah, no, that makes sense. No, follow us on apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever the hell you get your podcasts. And, uh, are we even on Spotify? [01:00:58] Brett: Yes. Yes we are. [01:01:00] I did it myself. I got us on Spotify, a goddess on I heart radio. And I don’t remember. I went, I, I went through like 20 different submission processes and God overtired everywhere. In fact, if you go to overtired pod.com and load up any episode, there’s like a, a follow link on the page that will take you to hold on. [01:01:27] Where is it? Oh, uh, at the bottom it says Spotify RSS, and then there’s some more button and we’re on apple podcast, Google podcast, Spotify, Android, Pandora, I heart radio blueberry, uh, tune in Deezer. And, and then anywhere that takes an RSS feed. [01:01:46] Christina: Nice. Very nice. [01:01:48] Brett: Yeah. I worked hard [01:01:49] Christina: subscribe to us on on, I’m proud of you. Yeah. because I remember this was years ago, but I had to submit something to Spotify and It was like not, yeah. I love those things. [01:01:57] Brett: took a while [01:01:58] Christina: yeah. I was going to say it was kind of a pain in the [01:02:00] ass, so [01:02:00] Brett: Pandora. It was even harder. Pandora took weeks to figure out. I don’t know if anyone actually listens to podcasts on Pandora, but. [01:02:10] Christina: Um, just as, as we’re, as we’re, um, ending the show, just, this was kind of a, for negative for not an episode, but. [01:02:15] I think it worked, um, I just saw this on my Twitter. Uh, speaking of like bizarre things, prince Philip will be will, will remain sealed for 90 years. [01:02:29] Brett: What is that? Like, why, what are they getting? Oh, cause they’re the cryogenics, right? They’re going to bring back to [01:02:36] Christina: Oh no, no. I misread that. See, that’s what I thought. I read it as him being like his casket, you know, it’s his will, [01:02:41] Brett: Oh, okay. That that’s way less creepy. [01:02:45] Christina: it is. Um, but, uh, so now we have no idea how much money he had or how much he left you, uh, to his, uh, you know, Jeffrey Epstein, um, palling around, um, youngest son. [01:02:57] Brett: I’m just going to say it. I don’t care.[01:03:00] [01:03:00] Christina: I mean, I don’t either, but, but this just came up in my Twitter. So. [01:03:05] Brett: All right. We’ve got some current events in you. People happy now. [01:03:09] Christina: I mean maybe, I don’t know. [01:03:10] Brett: All right. Well, so from the bottom of my heart, get some sleep, Christina. [01:03:16] Christina: Get some sleep, Brett.

How much do you want to know about Pop Punk? Is the answer “too much?” I have just the episode for you. Step right up and immerse yourself in the mainstream punk of the early 2000s. Sponsor SimpliSafe is celebrating the new Wireless Outdoor Security Camera by offering 20% off your entire new system and your first month of monitoring service FREE when you enroll in Interactive Monitoring. Learn more about the exciting new camera at simplisafe.com/overtired. Upstart is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan –– all online. Visit Upstart.com/Overtired to get your fast approval with up-front rates. Show Links Hella Mega Playlist Pop punk Weezer Some Kind of Monster Matt Bomer Phoebe Bridgers Emo Night Brooklyn Elliott Smith Either/Or Elliott Smith Covers (including a Conor cover!) Dirt Emo Thursday – Full Collapse Dashboard Confessional – The Places You Have Come to Fear the Most Further Seems Forever – The Moon is Down Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 253 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey everybody. This is take two of your favorite podcasts over tired. Um, I, I want to, again, this is the second time in as many weeks that I’ve, uh, hit the record button and then done the countdown and then stop the recording instead of starting the recording. I’m Brett Turkstra, uh, the, the, the perpetual fuck up. I’m here with Christina Warren and our special guests. Once again, Aaron Dawson. Uh, how are you ladies doing once again? [00:00:37] Erin: I’m awesome. [00:00:39] Christina: Nice call back. Nice call back. Yeah, I’m pretty good. I’m pretty good. I’ve been up. I’ve been up for like an hour and a half, so I’m like rubbed up also. We already recorded 15 minutes of this, so I’m like warmed up and ready. [00:00:52] Brett: Yeah, It’s I find it so depressing. To like have to repeat good conversation. Like it was good. [00:01:00] We, we were doing great. And you guys were like on the ball actually recording your parts of it. I’m S I’m sorry. I apologize. I apologize to our listeners for the great conversation you had to miss. [00:01:13] Christina: I mean, look, that’s what happens. This is. This is honestly, this is why maybe what we should do at some point, Brett and Erin would be great if you wanted to join us for one of these, we should like record, but we could also do like a Twitter spaces thing, which is like, you know, a femoral. And although I think they are going to be adding a record feature and then that way, you know, you just get to hear the behind the scenes thing. [00:01:36] Brett: don’t know what that is. [00:01:39] Christina: like clubhouse, which okay. You don’t, you also don’t know about. Okay. So it’s. [00:01:44] Brett: Cause I’m old. [00:01:46] Christina: No, because you don’t care about this stuff because you’re not, um, like interminably online. Like I am, um, you like have other interests other than anyway. Um, it’s basically, you know, like the modern version of like the [00:02:00] party line where, you know, you have like a group of people who can all talk, but you can, um, at least with Twitter spaces, you can like. [00:02:06] You can do this with clubhouse too, but Twitter spaces is, um, a little bit more refined, even though they kind of copied the clubhouse product, or you could like set people who are the moderators or the speakers, um, you know, the only people who can talk and then you can have people who like, just listen in, but it’s like an ephemeral thing. [00:02:22] So like, I could just start a chat and just start talking to random people and then just like end it whenever [00:02:27] Brett: We could do. [00:02:29] Christina: it kept kinda be cool. It was like a behind the scenes thing. Like people wanted to listen to us like while we were cool. The live beds. I mean, we would still record on our own to do our podcasts, but we could be like, [00:02:39] Brett: Yeah. [00:02:40] Christina: is, this is the live thing. [00:02:41] That’d be kind of cool. [00:02:42] Erin: Sorry. I don’t, I don’t know if he said this, Christina, but is this sort of similar to Twitch where you’re, you’re looking at, you know, someone presumably using like a webcam or something and would that be weird for both of you? Because from what I understand, you, you never like [00:03:00] recorded and overtired like through video. [00:03:03] Christina: right, exactly. However, this is audio only. So, [00:03:08] Erin: man. I wanted to see that. [00:03:09] Brett: I’m into video. We can do video. [00:03:11] Christina: we could do video. We could actually, [00:03:13] Brett: fucking gorgeous. Just kidding. [00:03:18] Christina: And so modest too. Yeah, no, fuck it. We could do videos some point. Absolutely. But yeah, you’re right. We we’ve never done that sort of thing before, but yeah. We’ve spent all this money on our home, our respective AB setups. We could totally do that. [00:03:29] Brett: Oh, man. Yeah. Thanks to work. I have a, I have a hell of a good home AAV set up that I’ve yet to use. [00:03:38] Anyway, quick mental health corner since we already did this once, but I, I had just had a quadruple espresso, took my stimulants, trying to combat what is now a week long depression and it’s, it’s not working. [00:03:38] Mental Health Corner [00:03:53] Brett: And it, it baffles me. Once I’m depressed. How little like stimulant, [00:04:00] if I’m manic, stimulants only make it worse or better depending how, you know, how you like manic episodes. Um, but so they have like a stronger effect on me, but once I hit the depression, it’s like, they don’t do anything at all. It’s so weird. [00:04:15] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. Well, yeah. Cause I mean like, yeah. And, uh, and, and Aaron, we don’t have to get into all of these things again, but, um, But your, your, uh, your, how your mental health is your own. [00:04:32] Erin: Mental health is that I’m okay. Got a book, uh, suggested by my therapist. And this book is using a lot of language that is like pretty crunchy and, and, and like, woo, woo. And I’m feeling not so great about that, but I think that the message of the book is like strong enough that like, I can, I can work through all the, of all the peanut butter and, and the, like the M and M’s and the [00:05:00] cashews, and like get to the heart of, you know, [00:05:03] Brett: Was that a reference to trail man? [00:05:06] Erin: Well, it was, yeah. [00:05:09] What’s that trying to riff on granola? What else is synchronizing [00:05:13] Christina: like, yeah, I’m just [00:05:13] Erin: chocolate chips? I [00:05:14] Brett: Real real hippies would never have m&ms in their granola. They would have, uh, they would have, um, dark chocolate pieces, probably bittersweet. [00:05:27] Christina: Well, like Kara. [00:05:28] Brett: Oh, right. Kara, the, the rich man’s chocolate. [00:05:34] Christina: Right. [00:05:36] Erin: Is it a Corpus thing? [00:05:37] Brett: Good old raisins and peanuts. [00:05:41] Erin: Yeah. [00:05:42] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:44] Erin: cool. [00:05:45] Brett: You should we talk, but should we talk derisively about hippies again? Or should we skip that part? [00:05:50] Christina: No, I think we should skip that because you guys have a hard out. So, so, uh, we, we, we, we can see, we can skip our, our derisive hippie talk and get into, um, [00:05:59] Brett: big [00:06:00] news, [00:06:00] Christina: the big news music. [00:06:02] Teen Concert from 2005 [00:06:02] Brett: The old people’s concerts. Tell us all [00:06:05] Christina: The teens concert from 2005. Yeah, no. So, um, as I mentioned last week, I went to Los Angeles and I got to see like 14 on the Slater. Um, the hella mega tour, which was a Weezer fallout boy and, um, green day at Dodger stadium and it was sold out and it was like, you know, I don’t know, 45,000 people or something. It was great to be like at that, I went to the Guster concert at red rocks, but that’s Guster and I love Guster, but you know, that’s like college rock and those guys were just that really so excited to be like playing red rocks, like for their first time as like, this is like the main act like that. That was really like reaffirming. [00:06:47] Cause I, I love them, but this was like, you know, like a rock show, right? Like, um, And it was really good. It was, it was, it was a great show. Um, shockingly [00:07:00] you know, the fact that like they, cause they ended just a little after 11. Um, and, and I think that that Weezer went on around six 30, the, the tear down time, like between the sets was incredibly efficient. [00:07:14] Like they have that shit down. Which was really good. And they started on time, which also, I was kind of like surprised about, like, we didn’t see the opening act because who fucking cares. I don’t even know who it was, but, um, we got there right as well. We got into our seats, um, right. As Weezer was starting actually our original seats. [00:07:31] Cause we had four seats because Catherine bought them so fucking long ago. Um, when we were supposed to see this in, in July of 2020, um, Our section no longer existed. Like that’s where like the sound setup was. And so, uh, they had to move us to a better section. So we were like actually even closer and had even better seats. [00:07:55] Um, you know, like, so it was, it was good. [00:08:00] [00:08:00] Brett: I’ve only ever been to one concert that had more than maybe. 200 people at it. I, when, when a pit bull killed my cat, uh, the person who owned the pit bull felt so bad. They gave me free tickets to a Metallica kid, rock concert, [00:08:18] Christina: Oh, yeah. I remember that to [00:08:20] Brett: rock. [00:08:21] Erin: Yeah. [00:08:21] Christina: course. [00:08:22] Brett: But I went to see Metallica was impressed with how much pre-Black album stuff they played. [00:08:28] But it was it. I did not like the stadium. I I’m just not used to stadium shows. [00:08:34] Christina: That’s whore. Cause I think that that was in 2000. [00:08:39] Brett: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [00:08:41] Christina: Okay. So that tour, I had tickets to that because I was 16 and then fucking, um, uh, James got fucking pulled over for a DUI cause he’s an asshole. And so Metallica had to cancel their show in Atlanta, like a really big [00:09:00] show because fucking James, you know, got like a DUI. [00:09:02] And then by the time like they rescheduled, I was so mad at them over the Napster shit that I was like, fuck Metallica, fuck you with it. So I never went to that [00:09:11] Brett: Well, wait, was it James or Lars that got pulled over? [00:09:15] Christina: It was James. [00:09:16] Brett: Huh? [00:09:17] Erin: This is pretty rehab. James [00:09:18] Christina: It’s just pre rehab. James. This is like one of the reasons like, well, no, he didn’t even go to rehab for a couple more years because now I’m thinking of some kind of monster, the, the, um, the documentary, um, which was good. Um, [00:09:29] Brett: it was pretty. [00:09:30] Christina: That was actually a really good documentary. I have to say like that and like not ready to make nice or whatever the hell the Dixie chicks documentary was. [00:09:37] Like, there are a number of them that are good, but like some kind of monster that’s a good ass documentary. They just fucking hate each other so much. I love that shit. Um, [00:09:46] Brett: of waylaid the conversation where we’re really headed towards a pop punk conversation. [00:09:49] Christina: Yes. Yes. So, so when we were saying this before, um, uh, just, just so we can kinda set the thing. So you’re more into, and I’ve, I kind of agree with you, um, uh, Aaron, like you like, like this, like [00:10:00] these are the bands who we would call, like, and I don’t even think you can call Weezer pop punk. I mean, I think that they’re just like [00:10:06] an alternative rock band. [00:10:07] Right. But, but they, you know, they’ve had some hits and they’ve been remarkable. Like able to reinvent themselves over the years, which is interesting for such a nerdy band. Um, but like ballboy and green day, certainly like those are like top tier, like, you know, like bands. Whereas I think like you prefer it. [00:10:25] And I, I, I I’m like this too. We probably like, like the smaller, like the, like the beer, the seat here a little bit more, um, [00:10:33] Brett: What does seat here? Name a seat here, band. [00:10:38] Erin: sure. Um, mineral, uh, what else? Like, uh, jets over Brazil, um, more recently, like hit the lights. [00:10:51] Christina: Yeah. [00:10:52] Erin: Um, stuff like that, like had had a strong fan base though. It was like really, really [00:11:00] small. Um, yeah. Yeah. I agree with the Weezer thing as being like an Alltrack band, their most recent record, actually. Oh, okay. So not van Weezer. [00:11:11] The one before that bill is super sentimental, hardly any guitars on it, like chamber pop record, really, really strong. Like their strongest in years. [00:11:22] Christina: Yeah, I would agree with that. [00:11:24] Erin: yeah. And I think where we were leaving off, like I was bringing up this idea that like Weezer does, there’s this kind of conspiratorial idea that Weezer maybe around like maladroit or something like that. [00:11:39] The, the record after green album started. The conspiracies that, that rivers kind of ceased, caring and trying and, and to invigorate. Uh, his interest in being, and being a sort of front man for this international rock band, um, like [00:12:00] sort of made this bow Val to himself that Weezer is, will now be a sort of like performance art band, but like a secret performance art band, right? [00:12:08] Like making weird choices that seem, that seem quirky, but are in fact him pushing to see how. How out of the sort of mill you of alt rock pop punk, uh, he can get with without BA you know, sort of like betrayed, uh industry-wise, which is why you see, you know, an album called Hurley, because he liked Hurley from loss and seeing a dog on the cover of what is that record called a Ratatouille. [00:12:43] Christina: Yeah. [00:12:43] Erin: And just writing these like rock rock by numbers, songs that, that are set sometimes catchy and hooky and sweet and sugary, but, but most often are just like so, [00:13:00] so boring. And that seems to have waned in the past couple years, especially with that album that I, that I mentioned, but I really, really liked this year. [00:13:09] Christina: I like that theory too. And I actually agree with that. And um, for whatever reason, this is like one of the weirdest things, because I think I might’ve interviewed him once, but I don’t even know how this happened. And I’m sure that he doesn’t like interact. It’s not like he ever sees my tweets or anything, but he’s followed me on Twitter for like 10 years, which is. Bizarre, right? Like, that’s like, well, no, but it’s just a weird, like I think he and Ashton Kutcher, like my weirdest Twitter follows, like, [00:13:38] Erin: No, I could see Ashton kosher because he’s, he’s, he’s sort of transformed Animorphs style into like a kind tech bro, like a tech bro, but [00:13:48] Christina: Except I’ve been like critical of [00:13:49] Erin: cares? [00:13:50] Christina: I’ve been like I, but yeah, but I’ve been like critical. Yeah. [00:13:54] Erin: Hm. [00:13:54] Christina: Uh, so I don’t even know, but he is, he’s like a contact bro. And I like him and Mila and that’s fine, but it is [00:14:00] one of those weird things. Like, cause neither like he doesn’t follow that many people. I don’t know why clearly when he joined or whatever the case was, he just made the decision. [00:14:08] I was like, okay, cool. And then, you know, just didn’t unfollow, which is fine. Like I don’t, I don’t think like they actually like care or anything, but, but rivers is one of those weird ones, but I like that theory a lot. Cause I do think as he’s a really. You know, he’s a really smart guy and like, you could even see, like, he’s a great performer. [00:14:25] That’s one thing I’ll give him, like, whether this is like all a performance art thing or not like the band puts their all into it. And they were clearly having a great time to be back in front of people again. But I really do like that idea of, of them like. Of him, like, you know, amusing himself almost by, by creating different types of work, which, which I think totally that fits with with a lot of their stuff. [00:14:50] Um, yeah. [00:14:53] Erin: Well, I saw your Instagram stories and they looked really solid and I really appreciated that. Like the [00:15:00] sun was still up always or most play. [00:15:01] Christina: Yeah. They were the first one. That was the funny thing. Right? So, so they, this was what. [00:15:06] Erin: No. [00:15:06] Christina: so, so it was, so it was three, so it was three acts. And so they started on time cause they, they ended a little after 11. Um, I don’t know if there were like, you know, it was, they were, which if it had been one act, right, like it would have been one of those things. [00:15:19] Like they wouldn’t come on until after the sun went down. Um, but you know, these are not like six 30. And, um, so, so the sun was up for their whole set and they were just like having a great time. So it was sort of like, cause I’ve seen them live a bunch. I haven’t seen them probably in 15 years, but I’ve seen them live like a bunch of times, usually at festivals, I think once at like an amphitheater, um, or like a standalone concert or two, but, but usually it’s been at like festivals, so I’ve seen them play certainly like, you know, in, in the summer before, but you’re right. [00:15:47] It was like, they were just like having a blast followup way. Their set started. Um, a little bit, it was still light out and then like got dark, you know, as they were, as they were doing it. And then green day being the biggest band [00:16:00] was that was the closer obviously. So sun was down when they went up, but, um, [00:16:05] Brett: day, bigger than Weezer. [00:16:07] Christina: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Green day, like internationally and 70, most people I would say were probably there for. Like there were so many, I mean, the place was packed. It was packed the whole time. But I would say that, you know, green day was probably like people who were wearing, you know, the rock band shirts to the rock band, to the rock concert, which is w it was just what you see when you see a show at Dodger stadium. [00:16:33] Um, there was a lot of, there was a lot of green day stuff, [00:16:37] Brett: I bought a shirt at Turner. and. I have to change my clothes every time I go to target, because I’m like deathly afraid of showing up at target, wearing a target shirt. [00:16:46] Christina: Yeah. Understood. Understood. Yeah, you totally have to. Um, but yeah, so, so yeah, green day is, is massive and, and, uh, what, all, what I appreciate about all three bands. Yeah. Is that they didn’t [00:17:00] play much new stuff. Like, it was mostly like the hits, like there were in, cause some of them would put out like, like, uh, like Weezer even said, it’s like, okay, we’re gonna play one more new song. [00:17:07] But like they didn’t play a ton of new stuff, which, and the new stuff was, was fine, but it wasn’t one of those things. Cause sometimes you go to these shows and like, they really just want to shut the new shit down your throat and. Would this tour, they clearly knew who their audience was and what they were doing. [00:17:23] And it didn’t feel like a, like a, um, I guess what’s like a heritage walk show. Like it didn’t have that vibe. And the audience, I would say was most of the people in their thirties. Um, but, and although you did see some young kids there, which, you know, made me realize as like green day is playing certain songs and like, they were not alive when, you know, like for a lot of that stuff. [00:17:44] And, and, and which is always like an awkward thing to realize, but, um, Yeah. Uh, they, they, they, they weren’t, they weren’t doing that shit where like, you know, they refuse to play the hits. Like they played for all three bands, like played all the hits, which was really, really [00:18:00] good. And, and I appreciate it because if you’re spending that much money and you’re going to a show like at that sort of location, like, you want to see the hits, like, if you’re at like a smaller club than you, or whatever, where the fans are, like, maybe you want to see some deep cuts or some new stuff or whatever, but if you’re a Dodger fucking stadium, like I need you to play buddy. [00:18:17] Huh? And the sweater song, and my name is Jonas. You know what I mean? [00:18:21] Erin: Yeah, especially that, that, that last one that’s, that’s not unreasonable. I think green day is as close as I get to like my flavor of punk being political. And, and even as like a political agents, I don’t know what kind of like material change green day has brought to. Two people. I, I’m not sure, but like punk music that has anything to do with what a lot of folks would say, punk is about like pugs and attitude. [00:18:55] Punk is about the dissolution of hierarchy. Punk is about the [00:19:00] dismantling of power structures, whatever. Like doesn’t interest me at all. Politically I’m interested, but musically, I’m not interested at all. Like I like punk that. Awful. If it’s signifiers stripped until it’s a barely recognizable husk. And the only, [00:19:17] Brett: Okay. [00:19:17] Erin: the only thing that’s left is like a reliance on a, on a BPM that’s I don’t know, greater than a heartbeat and like four chords, like, is it and like pizza and, and like being, being, uh, you know, bummed that the girl like doesn’t like you back also doesn’t hurt. [00:19:37] But like the political stuff I’m like, uh, [00:19:40] Christina: yeah. Yeah. I mean it varies. I mean, I think green day probably of them probably gets like the most intuitive and like, um, you know, American idiot was at least for a mainstream rock album. Right. Uh, a fairly political record, especially one that, that sold as many copies as it sold. [00:19:53] Like they’re not, you know, and, and, and he’s had, you know, but like, I mean, then I would hardly call that political and [00:20:00] like an actual punk record sense, but, but that was. That was definitely a mainstream political rock record to put out in 2004 or whatever. Um, I don’t know. I love, I just, I love like a good, I fucking love pop music. [00:20:14] So a good like pop punk, just like a melody, like you say, like four chords and just like, uh, like a memorable, like Diddy. Like I love that shit. And, and that’s one of the reasons why I like follow boy is so great because they’ve just amazing lyrics, but really good hook. [00:20:30] Erin: It’s so weird that Pete Wentz writes the lyrics. Like it’s, sometimes those layers are like quite profound. Um, especially on like, like, I don’t know, what was the record? Like infinity on high was kind of like this and like the first record where they’re like, kind of trying to sound like, say what you are. [00:20:47] And like this saves the day stuff like this lyrics are like quite good. Sometimes I’m like very literary. Um, [00:20:54] Christina: very, very literally like, like, and, and, and that’s the thing. That’s what I always like, uh, appreciate about them. Um, [00:21:00] so my friend who I went with, she’s like a massive followup boy fan, and I didn’t know this about her. And like, if you know her personality, this is actually kind of surprising. [00:21:09] And I’m like, I didn’t realize how into pop punk. She wasn’t actually on the way back actually. So after we went to the class, We went to, um, her parents’ house, um, and, uh, Santa Ynez, which is, um, in, um, Santa Barbara county and, um, like very beautiful, but kind of, you know, um, remote, like there’s a lot of wineries and stuff or satellite. [00:21:32] Yeah. Uh, not a lot of cell service. Um, a lot of rich people’s houses, um, and, um, like farms and cows and stuff grazing and it’s, um, it’s, it’s beautiful, but it’s like a two and a half hour drive or whatever from downtown LA. And we were listening to, um, an emo night, um, DJ mix the whole time. And I don’t know if either of you have ever gone to any of the emo night, um, show.[00:22:00] [00:22:00] Brett: Hm. [00:22:02] Erin: familiar with them. They even have a restaurant in LA and it’s that’s ridiculous. [00:22:07] Christina: So, so it, at least, at least in Brooklyn, like there was always once a month, it was always like an emo night party, usually at Brooklyn bowl. And, and like, you have, like, you would just have like really good DJs who were like doing really, really good mashups and mixes of pop pumps, pop punk songs. And so she had some of those mixes and, and we were just like having a blast, like listening to that stuff. [00:22:25] Cause it, it, it, you know, um, um, Interpolated like a bunch of, of the different bands and would also kind of mix in some other types of stuff too. Like the, the, the mix was really good. I’m going to need to find it off of Spotify, but it was really fun, but it was funny for me because Catherine is just, um, I, for whatever reason, I just never like took her as being like a huge pop punk fan, but she is, and I am, and I have been like my whole life, but she’s a massive followup within, but she got into them like, When they were on hiatus, which is so weird. [00:22:57] Um, but she’s a really big fan of Patrick and would go to a lot [00:23:00] of his, um, solo shows and at smaller venues. But yeah, but Pete rice, the lyrics, but mostly lyrics and he’s very good. Like. He also looked really good. I have to say like his, his hair, he had like a bun thing going on. Um, it looked good, like his, his clothes, which are always interesting. [00:23:23] Like I enjoyed whatever street style sort of thing he was doing. Um, it was good. [00:23:28] Brett: I have to interrupt. I have a segue. I do have a segue. So one hallmark of actual punk rock is this anti-capitalist sentiment. And speaking of capitalism, um, and, and sell out bands like green day, fuck up pinnacle of Amar, a core tenant of American capitalism is debt. And speaking of debt consolidation, did I do that? [00:23:55] That was a bit of a walk. That was a bit of [00:23:57] Erin: You landed [00:23:57] Christina: it’s a bit of luck. No, but I think, I think it almost works like [00:24:00] when we’re talking about like the things that they rail against, one of them is, you know, the debt society that we’re in. Right. Go, go for it. Read, read, read, read your review. [00:24:08] Sponsor: Upstart [00:24:08] Brett: If you dread looking at credit at your credit card statements, you’re not alone. Debt can feel crippling, but upstart can help you on your path to financial freedom. Upsert is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan, all online. Whether it’s paying off credit cards, consolidating high interest debt or funding, personal expenses. [00:24:27] Over half a million people have used upsert to get a simple fixed monthly payment. I have personally used upstart to get myself out of credit card debt that I accrued over some financial rough times. I knew it. Wasn’t smart to dig myself that hole, but thanks to upstart. I have a chance to dig myself back out. [00:24:44] I got an upstart loan a few months ago, wiped out my credit card debt completely. And. Fixed monthly payments and watching my debt disappear. And my credit score is back to excellent. Now with a five minute online rate check, you can see your rate upfront for loans [00:25:00] between 1000 and $50,000. I got approved the same day I applied and I had my money a day later, and now my credit cards are paid off. [00:25:08] I’ll be debt free in five years and I’m saving over $6,000 on what I would have paid in interest to the credit card companies. Find out how upstart can lower your monthly payments today when you go to upstart.com/overtired, that’s upstart.com/overtired. Don’t forget to use our URL to let them know that we sent you. [00:25:29] Loan amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other information provided in your loan application. Just go to upstart.com/overtired [00:25:42] Christina: Excellent. [00:25:42] The Continuing Pop Punk Report [00:25:42] Brett: back to you, Christina, with the pop punk, right. [00:25:46] Christina: Yeah, no. Um, now I don’t remember what I was saying. [00:25:49] Brett: Something about a man bun that looked good. [00:25:52] Christina: Oh, yeah, no, he looked good. I was just, no, all I was basically getting out was, was that Pete looked taught. Um, and, and actually what I [00:26:00] was texting people was that I will still fuck Pete Wentz. So, um, that, that, that is, that is our update on that. I [00:26:06] Erin: My whole thing. My whole thing with you, Christina, and, and listening to you speak about men is that I love it. And, you know, last time I was on, we were talking about, you know, bachelor in paradise. We were talking about the sort of bachelor nation at large. And you, you know, you mentioned Connor, the cat man. [00:26:28] And now, you know, it’s Pete Wentz and I, you know, I, I, I am a queer woman, you know, CIS dudes, not necessarily my thing presumably says whatever, um, between Pete and Connor, like, I, I, I, I just feel like I love being on the outside of this. Like, what is it about. Because these are very different men, you know? [00:26:53] And I think you, you have used the fuck word to describe, you know, a sort of desire about both of them. [00:27:00] And I, I think, you know, if, if we’re ever going to start a podcast, you know, it’s, it’s, you may be describing, you know, the sort of thing. Dynamism and breadth of, of this kind of attraction, because these are two different, very different people. [00:27:18] Right. So, but they ha they must have something in common for you to be like, oh, what’s up? Um, so like, what is that about Pete Wentz? [00:27:26] Christina: Well, I think he’s like conventionally attractive. Like his face is conventionally attractive. Um, which helps, um, I mean, that’s why he was like the one, even though he’s not the lead singer, right? Like he like was the face of kind of the band. So I think commissional, he was he’s conventionally attractive, but I don’t know. [00:27:43] I mean, again, like he can write and he just seems like a fun kind of. Like he has a good personality. That’s the thing I’ll say with like Connor, the cat total Himba don’t care. It’s just like, he has a good body and it would be like, I wouldn’t like want a relationship with Connor, but like, [00:28:00] yeah. [00:28:01] Erin: Um, yeah. [00:28:04] Christina: Like Connor’s like, yeah. Would fuck. But like, Uh, Pete Wentz and like, oh no, he’s still got it. He there’s a charisma angle to him. For sure. Like, he’s, he’s definitely got a charisma play. And, and it’s interesting because Billy Joe Armstrong who a has not aged, like he’s 50 and he looks amazing, like whatever his skin care regimen is, whatever. [00:28:22] Like, I mean, it helps these Diana’s hair black as always, but also helps that he still has his hair because, you know, um, that’s the thing that that age has been the most, unless they just, you know, decide to just go all in and like shave it. And then they. You know, uh, offset that a little bit. Um, he like his face, like doesn’t have like the weird, like wrinkle, like he doesn’t have like the look of like some guy who’s been literally in a band since like 1985, like. [00:28:49] Erin: takes care of himself. [00:28:50] Christina: clearly he does, but, but like, because you know, they had like, um, you know, cameras and stuff and like, we were, we were too far back to like see up close on the stage, but, you know, they had like the [00:29:00] jumbo-tron sort of things. And so they’re doing closeups of his face and stuff. And like, I’m looking at them, I’m trying to figure out I’m like, okay, has he had injectables? [00:29:07] Does he have Botox? Cause he doesn’t have like the Botox, like sheen, you know, like it doesn’t look plastic-y, it looks good, but I’m not seeing any wrinkles. Like I was genuinely like sometimes like take it. Of the thing a little bit, like trying to figure out, okay, what work has he had done? Because it’s really good. [00:29:23] And I want, I want his surgeon because I I’m like against aging at all costs, so, so, um, [00:29:30] Brett: so this is, this is fascinating and I do want to get back to it, but the segue is too perfect. Right now. [00:29:36] Christina: yep. Read it, do it. [00:29:37] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:29:37] Brett: Speaking of cameras, this is going to make a lot of sense in a second. Speaking of cameras, there’s big news in home security, simply safe, just launched their new wireless outdoor security camera. [00:29:50] That’s right. Simply safe. The system that us news and world report names, best home security system of 2021 just got even better. This brand [00:30:00] new outdoor security camera is engineered with all the advanced tech and security features you want and need to help keep you and your family safe. It has an ultra wide 140 degree field of view. [00:30:12] Uh, so you can keep watch over your entire yard. It has 10 80 P. 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And your first month of monitoring service for free when you enroll in active monitoring, uh, again, that simply safe.com/overtired. [00:31:26] And now back to Christina with the, uh, description of what makes a guy, uh, what was the word? [00:31:35] Is Billy Joe Armstrong Fuckable? [00:31:35] Christina: Yeah. So this is what I was going to say this, so here’s the interesting thing. So like Billy Joe Armstrong looks great and he’s a great front man. Um, and he’s, he’s an attractive guy, but like, I’ve never been like, oh, I, I want to like. Get with him, you know what I mean? Like if for whatever reason he doesn’t have that appeal. [00:31:53] So I don’t know. We’ll have to explore that more and another sort of thing. Uh, Aaron, [00:31:58] Brett: What’s the, what’s the [00:32:00] French word for that special something. Jeanette say quasi. Is that, is that what I’m [00:32:04] Erin: I think, I think the recipe in terms of Pete once goes for the Genesee. Quiet is, is this is someone who looks like. You know, they’re pretty serious about their bench, press numbers, someone who, you know, they, they have their AirPods in, and they’re either listening to an audio book or mysterious guy hardcore, and someone who looks like they smell good. [00:32:31] He looks like he smells good. [00:32:33] Christina: Yes he does. Yes. I think, I think you nailed it. Whereas I think Billy Joe probably doesn’t always smell good. [00:32:39] Erin: Well, yeah, no, no. And that’s the sort of like legitimacy, um, that he carries with him as an actual crust punk who is, which is who he is at his core. [00:32:54] Brett: So I got to say my tastes definitely lean more towards like Matt [00:33:00] Bonner from, uh, from white collar. [00:33:03] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:33:04] Brett: He, he is like that to me, that’s like it. If I were going to pick a guy, which I’m not opposed to in any way, um, Matt, Bonner’s kind of, that’s my guy, [00:33:17] Christina: No. I mean, Matt Bonner is, is super, super hot. Um, I, unfortunately I’m not his type, which is okay. I’m like, [00:33:23] Brett: I, am his type. [00:33:24] Christina: you are his type. Well now. [00:33:26] Brett: as genitalia goes, [00:33:27] Christina: Yeah, but, but like his husband like looks a lot like him, um, which is super hot too. Yeah. But no, I, I, yeah, I know. I like that. I like that. Look for sure. But yeah. Um, Nova Pete, Pete’s just like pizza, cute guy. [00:33:42] Uh, but he, and he still has it. Right. Um, and Patrick who’s shy C uh, Catherine is a massive Patrick fan and she was like, he was really feeling himself. I was like, okay. [00:33:55] Erin: cute. [00:33:56] Christina: Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, it was, it was really [00:34:00] fun to like be at one of those shows again, but it was, it was weird. Cause we, we talked about this, like, you know, a lot of times like, like the last concert, well, I went to Guster, but like the last show I went to before COVID was dashboard confessional at, um, at Webster hall, which, and I love, uh, Chris Krav, speaking of people who, okay. [00:34:16] His current hair really bothers me, but he’s still so cute to me. And again, it looks like he smells good. Um, And, and I love his lyrics and I love the whole emo ness of the whole thing. But like, even though it was Webster hall, you know, and it was packed or whatnot, like it was a standing show, you know, w it, it was one of those sorts of venues and whatnot where this, this, this, it felt like I was like back in high school, like at the warp tour, [00:34:40] Erin: Absolutely. I was really into his first band. Further seems [00:34:45] Christina: forever. Yes. [00:34:47] Erin: Yeah, super into them. And then I think I remember going to Kmart, uh, what I was, what, when I was a kid and, uh, uh, the places you’ve come to fear the most [00:35:00] and, uh, full collapsed by Thursday, like came out around the same time and I like picked both of those up spending. [00:35:06] Yeah. I dunno, probably 30 bucks CDs are so expensive and I listened to those records so much. There were CDs. Uh, so yeah, love, love, dashboard. Love that. Record everything. After that, I don’t know. I guess I’m going to pull that card. Love the early stuff. Right? [00:35:22] Christina: Well, and the early stuff is, is the best, but, but, um, and then he kind of took a break for a while. So like the weird thing with them is like, you know, They were S like further, seems to have, are kind of how to add an audience, but it was smaller. Like, I was really, really into saves the day. And like, we used to tour, we used to like, follow them around and like, We were, we were kind of groupies. [00:35:42] And then like, there was a whole thing in high school where like Kat and Melissa got in a fight with her girlfriends on the message boards. And then we couldn’t go to the shows anymore. And I was like, cause, cause we would sometimes make out with them or whatever. And it was like, you don’t interact like with the girlfriends on the message boards, like were not the girlfriend.[00:36:00] [00:36:00] That that’s not what this is. Kat and Melissa fucking ruined it and then made it like very awkward, like to go see them again. But like, we used to like go throughout the Southeast and like go to shows. Um, but then, you know, like dashboard, like, you know, blew up, like there was like an MTV two special. And then there was like an actual, like MTV unplugged thing and like, [00:36:18] Erin: Yes. [00:36:19] Christina: which, which was amazing. [00:36:20] And, and that was just like being at the shows, which everybody sings along. Like that’s the key to a dashboard show was like, literally everybody sings on, you can’t even hear him. Sometimes it’s one of those things. But then when, um, um, uh, uh, mark emission and the scar came out, which was like the major label, uh, uh, debut in, and like, he did like the rock version of hands down, like put them into like a different thing. [00:36:43] And I liked the Indies. Better. I like the other stuff too. Don’t get me wrong. And I still went to, to see, you know, his shows and I say them, but it’s really him. It’s, it’s always, [00:36:53] Erin: Yeah. [00:36:54] Christina: almost entirely been him. Um, but, um, And then there was [00:37:00] like, there were like two out two records after like the big one. And like, like, like it was on the, they were on the Spiderman, two soundtrack, like, you know, like blew up and then like kind of disappeared for a while. [00:37:09] But the interesting thing is when I, I saw, so I’ve, I’ve seen my friend, Liz who is, is younger than me, but awesome. A massive fan, but it’s interesting. So even though she’s, um, uh, quite a bit younger than me, like. Both love the band so much. And we also have similar tastes in music in general. Um, we saw them like in, I guess, 2017 and, um, add, uh, it was downtown. [00:37:35] I don’t, I don’t remember the, the, the club in New York now. Um, but then there was like a, an acoustic show. Right after, like in Brooklyn, like we had to go to, um, to a rough trade in Brooklyn, um, at midnight and see an acoustic show, which was amazing. Cause it was probably like a hundred people, you know, all kind of crammed into the stage area at rough trade, which is a record shop. [00:37:57] And, and, and it was just him on [00:38:00] an acoustic guitar and it was amazing. One of the best shows I’ve seen and we were really close, but, uh, the tour we went on, I th that I saw before, COVID like literally the day before. Um, he did the entire record of, um, um, uh, our commission and a scar and the places you’ve come to fear the most, like, so one night it was, it was, it was places you’ve come to for the most. [00:38:21] Then the next night it was a mark mission, um, and a scar. And, uh, that was just like amazing. [00:38:30] Erin: Yeah. Yeah. I saw that. That’s that sounds incredible. I saw them. Yeah. I think 2017 too. And it was his, he was going through this phase where it was, he was wearing like big like sets and hats. And he used this, like this grassbeds sort of Southern fried thing. Um, and they had gone electric and it, yeah, it wasn’t the same as that sort of intimacy that you’re describing. [00:38:55] Christina: Yeah, that was what was cool about like, kind of doing the anniversary kind of things. Cause I think, I don’t remember [00:39:00] what anniversary. I think it was the 20 year anniversary of the Swiss army romance came out in 2000. Um, and, and I love that record. Um, and, um, uh, but, but, uh, mark emission of a bit, uh, but, um, places you’ve come to fear the most was obviously like bigger. [00:39:15] Um, but yeah, it was, it was cause yeah, cause you wouldn’t do it like weird sets and things. And like I said, I don’t like what he’s doing with his hair, but, um, playing those old records, like just like front to back. Really cool. Also the get up kids who I fucking love opened both nights. So, and, and, and, and they were like, clearly, like so happy to be there. [00:39:36] And, and also like mostly played stuff off of like, um, um, the, the, the red letter days, album and stuff. So that was good. [00:39:44] Brett: I’m going to need so many links from you guys. Cause I don’t know who any of these people are. No, who any of these bands are. If you want any of this in the show notes, you’re going to have to provide me links. just saying [00:39:56] Erin: like Thursday. [00:39:57] Brett: if we, if we want to talk about like Fu [00:40:00] Gazi and minor threat, I [00:40:02] Christina: Well, yeah, because there’s like, which are, which are great bands. Like, don’t get me wrong, but like I’m, I’m, I’m like an emo like basic bitch. [00:40:09] Brett: right. I’m not making any judgements at [00:40:11] Christina: Oh, I know. I know. I know. [00:40:12] Brett: I don’t know what’s happening anymore. This has really gotten away from me. [00:40:19] Emo Pop Punk is definitely a thing [00:40:19] Christina: uh, what’s your all-time favorite. Yeah. [00:40:22] Erin: Yeah. In terms of bands in terms [00:40:24] Christina: Yeah. Like, like, like, like, uh, like the emo pop punk Friday, like what’s your all-time favorite? [00:40:29] Erin: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I don’t know if this counts, but you know, Thursday it’s it was so huge, so huge for me. Um, and that’s, and that’s for that sort of like screamo [00:40:40] Christina: Okay. [00:40:41] Erin: punk stuff. Like I’m, I’m like that sound like a metal head at heart and went to school. For music and composition and stuff. But when it comes to this, this kind of thing, Thursday and a huge say anything when it came to like the saves the day, say anything fork in the road. [00:40:57] I always went max Bemis route, but [00:40:59] Christina: [00:41:00] I mean, say anything is real boy is, is, uh, is, I mean, I have that on vinyl actually. Um, Yeah. Say anything is a great band, but yeah, I, I, I, I, I respect that choice. I was on the save the day side of that, but I, I think you were probably pick the right thing. [00:41:15] Erin: Right on, [00:41:18] Brett: Wow. [00:41:20] Christina: I loved [00:41:21] Erin: sorry. [00:41:21] Brett: I thought for a [00:41:22] Christina: I was going to say [00:41:23] Brett: we were done, but no, [00:41:24] Christina: we’re almost done. I was just going to say real quickly. I was just gonna say real quickly. Unfortunately, Jesse Lacey has done so much problematic shit that I even hate saying this, but brand new. Oh my God. Holy shit. Brand new. [00:41:37] Erin: have to put out a bad record. Even the last one was [00:41:40] Christina: Even the last one was great. [00:41:42] And that was what was so disappointing than all the, like the creepy shit came. I was like, God dammit, Jesse, can you just fucking keep it in your pants? But when a brand new is like one of those where again, like great lyrics, [00:41:54] Erin: Oh yeah. [00:41:55] Christina: like just stunning and like cleverly, right? [00:41:59] Erin: Yeah. [00:42:00] The sort of like literary aspect. Of what makes you know, pop punk and email is, is, uh, is a real, uh, attractor for you. I totally get it. I feel the same way. [00:42:11] Christina: Yeah, yeah. 100%. And, um, uh, yeah, I, I, uh, and then, uh, obviously like, um, MCR, you know, like iconic, um, like. Uh, that that’s my chemical romance spread. Um, but it, and then they like brought a whole new thing to it. Right. They brought all the orchestra, like shit, like just, yeah. [00:42:35] Erin: It feels like gen Z even like [00:42:39] Christina: Oh, they love MCR. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:42:41] Erin: Why do you think that is? Do you think it’s like, because it’s theatrical, it like translates well [00:42:48] Christina: think it’s that? I think, I think it’s good music. It’s also interesting. I have a feeling, some of the stuff, like at least some of the songs might still be played like on certain radio things. Maybe they were exposed to it earlier and they have like memories of it. I don’t know. Cause [00:43:00] like, uh, uh, blink 180 2 other than green day is probably one of like the biggest like American rock bands of the last, like [00:43:13] Erin: love blank. I love angels and airwaves. [00:43:16] Christina: Uh, me too. I, I love, I love to plus 44. Um, [00:43:20] Erin: yes. I guess. Fuck. [00:43:22] Christina: 44. That was a fucking great record. That was an amazing record. [00:43:25] Erin: 44 is the greatest blink 180 2, like off shoot record. Like Travis has done a bunch of stuff. Obviously Tom has, has done a ton of stuff. Love angels, loving angels in their waves, but plus 44. So solid. Just the one record. [00:43:43] Christina: one record and it was just, it was just mark and Travis and, um, another person. And that was just that’s. That’s just, I still sometimes find that on my playlist. And I’m like, yes. [00:43:54] Erin: Yeah, [00:43:54] Christina: Also like best thoughts to, to mark. Right. [00:43:58] Erin: I know. I [00:44:00] know I’ve been watching his YouTube channel and he seems to be doing good, but yeah. [00:44:04] Christina: he’s got a great attitude, but I mean, it’s so shitty. So, um, uh, mark Hoppus has stage four cancer and, um, is, uh, he’s I think he’s done with chemo now, but like, you know, I just had a, a friend recently, um, uh, pass away. I was wearing his shirt at a, at the concert, um, you know, kind of an honor of him because his nickname was rockstar and he’s a huge, like, Um, fan. [00:44:26] And so it just felt appropriate, but, um, you know, anybody can fight it, obviously mark is doing it, but it’s, it’s, it’s rough. I have another friend who has lymphoma and, and like, it’s it’s, um, um, actually it’s kind of really remarkable that he’s being so public about everything he’s doing, you know, like his journey, like a lot of people wouldn’t put all that out there and, um, I’m, I’m glad that he is. [00:44:50] Cause I think that’ll probably. Like help inform people in the very least, you know, remind people that not that this would have, I think helped him at all or anything, but, you know, like [00:45:00] go to the doctor, you know, like get checked for stuff. Like some of this, sometimes they can catch things. So, but yeah, I, I want also, if it’s like, um, he had, um, he had mark, um, um, or not mark, mark had Tom on his podcast. [00:45:17] Erin: Oh, [00:45:19] Christina: Yeah, this was like, uh, this was like, like two months ago, it was really good. And they hadn’t talked since, you know, uh, Tom left, blink, you know, like six, six years ago or whatever. And, um, but no, they, they had a great conversation about stuff. And you can tell me that this is, it was like, you know, two guys who’ve been friends, their whole lives have clearly had differences, but you know, like, you know, are two of the people who very few people I think could probably understand what, what they’ve gone through other than those two, you know what I mean? [00:45:49] Cause they were together from like the very beginning. [00:45:53] Erin: God would not be sorry. This is the last thing. Wouldn’t that be so good. If the, if blink had like one last record with the [00:46:00] original lineup and I don’t, I’m not even talking about Travis, I’m talking about the, the like first and superior drummer. [00:46:06] Christina: you mean you got the guy that had to kick out for alcoholism. [00:46:09] Erin: yes. Um, yeah, right. Whatever my girl can [00:46:14] Christina: I mean, I don’t think that’ll ever happen because I think at this point, Travis is like such a key part of the band. Also like the guy survived a plane crash and that was the only reason the band got back together. [00:46:26] Erin: Yeah. [00:46:27] Christina: this, right? [00:46:29] Erin: Oh God. Yeah. And that has a lot of narrative weight to it. Um, but Scott, yeah, the first drummer was so good, but. Yeah, [00:46:37] Christina: was good. [00:46:40] Brett: Next time. [00:46:41] Erin: good. In a way that wasn’t as technical. Sorry, go ahead, [00:46:43] Brett: next time we’re talking about like AOS, rotten and code 13 and the subhumans, and then I can actually participate. It’ll be, it’ll be fun for me and no one else. [00:46:56] Erin: I’m not going to say I’ve been trying not to say, sorry as much. [00:47:00] So I’m going to [00:47:00] Brett: Yeah, don’t [00:47:01] Erin: um, so I will say [00:47:02] Brett: this is you’re making great. [00:47:03] radio here. I I, I [00:47:05] Christina: Brett. [00:47:06] Brett: I can’t participate. [00:47:07] Christina: I’m going to say, you’re the one who wanted us to talk [00:47:09] Brett: I did. I did. Absolutely. I am. I am 100% behind this conversation. I’m glad it’s happening. Don’t let me, don’t let me rain on your parade. This is, this is of more interest to more listeners than any band I’ve ever listened to. [00:47:27] Christina: in more mainstream stuff. And I don’t know, like, this is probably because you like metal and you like, like the screen. Most of, I don’t think this is, is, is for you. Um, Aaron and this probably isn’t for you, Brett, but, um, sad home music season is about to start because, uh, Kacey, Musgraves divorce album is out on, on Friday and I’m very, very happy. [00:47:46] Erin: Kacey Musgraves. Yeah, I’ll check it [00:47:48] Christina: her, her now ex-husband Rustin Kelly. Amazing. And he has an album called dirt emo where he does, he does covers of, um, uh, some like he does a dashboard [00:48:00] confessional cover. Does a saves the day cover. Um, uh, uh, there is a, there’s an MCR cover like he is, um, uh, oh, he does a blink cover. Um, there’s a, um, um, uh, we discovered. [00:48:13] Fucking great album. [00:48:14] Erin: the dirt referred [00:48:15] Christina: ’cause he he’s like a, he’s a country artist, but he’s not like typical country. He’s like all country. Right? Like that’s what he would have been called two decades ago. And so he like, but he’s bought like kind of a dirt, like acoustic kind of grit aesthetic to those songs. It’s an amazing record. [00:48:30] It’s called dirt. Emo volume. Yeah. It’s seriously, really good. All of his work though is stellar. Also. He covers the best Taylor swift song of all time, all too well on it because he considers that an emo song and he’s correct. And, um, so, uh, I highly recommend that album to anybody who is. Is into that kind of thing. [00:48:50] And it also segues nicely because, uh, you know, um, his last album that came out like right, as they announced their divorce, it’s sort of sad because some parts of it [00:49:00] like are very clearly were written, like when he was still married and kind of in love. And then parts of it are kind of tinge with sadness. [00:49:05] But, um, but, but, uh, I’m here for Casey’s um, you know, Sanho fall, like divorce record. [00:49:12] Something other than Pop Punk, maybe? [00:49:12] Brett: I bet you guys could talk about like Connor Oakhurst. And bright eyes and Elliot Smith that I could get into. [00:49:19] Christina: Okay, well, have you listened to Phoebe Bridgers? Um, Brett. [00:49:23] Brett: never heard it [00:49:24] Christina: Her. Okay. She’s great. Phoebe Bridgers. You have to listen to her. [00:49:28] Brett: think you may have mentioned her before. [00:49:30] Christina: I did. And I’m going to say it again because I was for whatever reason, like going, I I’ve, I’ve been listening to her for years, but I was listening to her intently on my plane ride, like to LA and [00:49:42] Brett: spell that last name? [00:49:43] Christina: B R I D G E R S. [00:49:47] Erin: What’s what’s the most recent one. Kyoto. I thought it was okay. [00:49:51] Christina: Um, [00:49:51] Erin: in the Alps though. Oh my [00:49:52] Christina: oh my story’s Gallup’s fucking amazing. And, and then she’s, she did, she’s did like a side project with Connor and then she has like, um, um, [00:50:00] like a, uh, like a all girl group, like boy genius and yeah, she’s incredibly talented. [00:50:07] Erin: What’s everyone. Okay. Last thing. What’s everyone’s favorite Elliot Smith record. [00:50:11] Brett: Uh, the one with the eight on it. [00:50:14] Christina: Oh, figure eight. That was the, um, yeah. So mine is, is, uh, probably, uh, probably needle in the hay or between the bars, I guess, [00:50:23] Brett: that be sure that was the best. Oh my God. You’re right. [00:50:27] Christina: Yeah. Between the [00:50:28] Brett: Between the bars. is the song that got me into Elliot Smith. It was actually a cover of that song by, um, S Madeline Perot that, that turned me on to Elliot Smith. And like from then on, I was an Elliot Smith fan. [00:50:45] Christina: Yeah. So for me it was Goodwill hunting because they use his music [00:50:50] Brett: and, I didn’t, I didn’t pay attention to it at that point. Like I didn’t, I liked it. I just, it wasn’t enough for me to like, look it up. [00:50:58] Christina: and I was wrong. It’s not between the bars. That’s [00:51:00] what the song was on, but it’s a, it’s either. [00:51:02] Brett: Yeah, yeah, [00:51:03] Erin: I know what you meant. [00:51:04] Christina: Yeah, I just for, for, for, for, for, for the listeners for completion thing. Um, yeah, I, um, I, um, there a 25th anniversary edition of, um, his, uh, his first like, uh, kind of, um, like, uh, uh, Elliot Smith album, the one with needle in the hay came out last year and I got it on vinyl and [00:51:24] Erin: kill rockstars. Reissue. [00:51:26] Christina: Yeah. I, so I was like, so I got the vinyl, um, uh, um, a copy and it also came with like, Um, like a recording of like one of his very first like concerts, like doing that stuff. Um, that, uh, that I got from band camp, I think, because of that or got from their website, I don’t remember now got from the Cole rockstars thing, but there was some live stuff there that was really good. [00:51:49] Um, but yeah, Elliot Smith, man. [00:51:53] Brett: I’m so sorry to cut this short, but I have to go. [00:51:55] Christina: I know you guys have to go. Yeah. [00:51:57] Brett: I don’t know, Erin, are you off now? [00:52:00] [00:52:01] Erin: no, I was off yesterday. Um, we have a stand in two [00:52:04] Christina: Yep. All right. So, so that, that, that, that ends our weird music stuff, but we’ll talk more about this stuff. Another point we can have, we can have like, just like sad, like all indie rock thing. I’m seeing, I’m seeing death cab for cutie on Monday. So [00:52:16] Erin: Hey, jelly. [00:52:19] Brett: great episode ladies. [00:52:21] Christina: thank you, Brett. [00:52:23] Brett: Get some sleep. [00:52:24] Christina: sleep. [00:52:25] Erin: Slate.

From socialist propaganda to using Apple Watch for sudo, Brett and Christina somehow manage to surf around pop culture entirely this episode. If that’s what you tune in for, maybe it’s time to broaden your horizon. We’re more than just Taylor Swift trivia, you know. Sponsor TextExpander: The tool neither Christina nor Brett would want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Essential Protein from Ritual, our favorite multivitamin maker. Shake things up with a protein drink that will not only satisfy, it will even fill in nutrient gaps in your diet. Overtired listeners get 10% off their first 3 months. Head to ritual.com/OVERTIRED to shake up your ritual today. Show Links Jacobin Cursed for TextExpander 1Password Electron Watch ID for sudo Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 252 [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren here as always with Brett Terpstra. Brett, how are you? [00:00:11] Brett: I’m I’m swell. I’m swell, Christina, how are you? [00:00:15] Christina: I’m fine. I’m fine. Uh, you’re swell. Is that like a sarcastic swell? Is that like a, um, a genuine swell? Is that like a [00:00:22] Brett: So, so swell. Swell means means, okay. It means like, I guess what most people would say, okay, well, most people just say, I’m good if you ask them how they’re doing, but I’ve never, I’ve never been down with that. Like if you asked me how I’m doing, I’m either going to be awesome. Which means like, I’m good. I use hyperbole when answering this question, uh, if I’m just okay. [00:00:48] And you know, I’m, I’m, I’m swell and if I’m bad, I will fucking tell you about it. [00:00:55] Christina: I really appreciate your honesty in answering that question because I often. [00:01:00] Am not like I, you know, people are like, how are you? And I’m usually like, I’m good. I’m fine. Even if I’m like hit by a car, like, you know, bleeding, like whatever I’m going to be like, I’m fine. I’m a wasp. Like, this is what we do. [00:01:13] Like, that’s like the probably waspy his thing about me is, is the, uh, you know, like need to say that you’re fine. Even when you’re not. [00:01:22] Brett: Yeah, I will tell you, like, if you’re in a zoom meeting and the host says, how are you guys doing today? If your answer is so awesome, it changes the mood of the meeting. [00:01:34] Christina: Huh? [00:01:35] Brett: Just try that next time. Someone searched a meeting off like that, just go off mute and be like, I am so awesome. And don’t answer any up life hacks. [00:01:47] Mental Health Corner [00:01:47] Christina: I like it. I like it. Uh, okay. So that’s actually a good segue into Brett’s mental health corner. Any updates? [00:01:54] Brett: Um, so what day was it? Yeah. It was a little manic, right? Last [00:02:00] time we, last time we were recorded. Yeah. Yeah. I had not slept. So that lasted all of one day. Um, and I’ve been, I haven’t been depressed yet. Um, I guess, I guess I have this impending feel this feeling of impending doom. Like it’s gonna get depression. [00:02:21] Uh, it’s gonna get depression, uh, that like that the depression is coming. Um, which is. [00:02:28] Christina: the loop, the looming, like on violence of like, yes, it’s coming. [00:02:32] Brett: It’s going to be shitty because work right now is super stressful. And they, like, I have a project that I’ve been working on pretty much since I started and I had finished it. And when I presented it, they were like, this looks great, except let’s do everything different. And like completely pulled the rug out from under me, move the goalposts down the field. [00:02:57] So now I’m scrambling. I’m like, oh my God, I’m [00:03:00] going to need, this is I need two weeks. And they’re like, can you do it in a few days? And I’m like, I will try. And then yesterday, my boss is like, Hey, so how about tomorrow? And, and I, so I’ve been working on it all day today, nonstop. I think, I think I did it. I think I did it. [00:03:21] I think I did two weeks worth of work in two days and I deserve a raise. But if it’s not good enough and I hit a depression and am not able to focus like this, I’m going to be fucked. [00:03:38] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I think at that point, like you told them, you know, I need the time, um, before that you delivered something and then they changed the deliverables on you and you had to go back and. Skirt it make step up. I mean, look, it’ll get done or it won’t, I’ve become very, uh, Nisha about this sort of thing. [00:03:59] Brett: [00:04:00] You know, what’s nice though, is if this were a freelance job, there would be all this like renegotiation and everything. And like, I, I would be concerned about how over budget we’re going, but when you have a day job and your salary, you’re already getting paid for this, like you just kind of have to roll with it, but it’s not like it’s not a whole renegotiation thing. [00:04:21] Christina: No, exactly. It it’s just one of those, like, again, like I said, it’s like, you’re either going to be able to it’s either going to be ready or it’s not like, it’s a very simple thing. [00:04:33] Brett: shitty though, is that so much I’m on the dev REL team and I’m a tech writer and my team has been tasked with originally 150 pieces of new content for the year. And that was just bumped to one 70 because somehow quantity is going to matter more than quality and a good portion of that [00:05:00] content can’t be published. [00:05:02] Like I’m my project is to develop the pipeline and the platform for publishing that content. So until my project is done, we’re not making any progress on what, uh, KPIs, which I’m told are key progress indicators. [00:05:19] Christina: right. Or performance indicators? Yes. [00:05:21] Brett: Yeah that, yeah. Key performance indicators. Like this is all I have to ask every meeting I have to ask. [00:05:27] What does that mean? Um, but like, we can get any KPIs marked off until I finished my project. So it’s not a, it’s not a, a good one for you. If it gets done, it gets done. It’s like everyone is depending [00:05:42] Christina: Well, no, you need to get it done, but it is also one of those things. If it’s not going to be done tomorrow or if it’s going to be in tomorrow, but you’re still going to need a couple of days back and forth on it. Like you can’t, I mean, there are only so many hours in the day, right? Like sometimes you have really hard deadlines. [00:05:59] Like [00:06:00] this is, you know, like we have an event and it is taking place tomorrow at this time. Or like, like your, uh, the, the F1, um, launch, right? Like we’ve already announced this, this has to be live on the page, but sometimes, I mean, like, this is something that. You have something that’s ready to go. You have the pipeline there, there will. [00:06:21] More than likely be changes even after things [00:06:24] Brett: Oh, for sure. For sure. Like, we’re going to have MVP minimum viable product, uh, to get this out the door, it’s going to be iterated for a long time. Uh, like my biggest obstacle right now is making it iterative, like planning. So it can scale as I could. I can make a Jekyll site to run my own shit, no problem, but to make a Jekyll site that can have contributed like a hundred different contributors and be able to flex with all the structural changes that’ll happen. [00:06:57] That takes a lot more planning. [00:06:59] Christina: Yeah, no, it [00:07:00] does. I mean, I, I only know insofar as like, I know that like our, our doc site. Is, you know, basically it’s kind of run by, by GitHub and markdown and, and anybody can file an issue, you know, if they see something with the doc and they can make a, uh, you know, they, they can either, uh, you know, file like an issue, if there’s a problem or they can file a PR if they want to make a correction or whatever. [00:07:20] But I mean, and I don’t even know a ton about our infrastructure, but I know that it’s, you know, like complex in [00:07:27] Brett: that. I do that with the documentation for bunch. Like the bunch code is a private repo. That’s just for me. Um, but the documentation I made into a public repository and when people find something confusing or want to add something, they just make pull requests and it’s super handy to open source, that kind of stuff. [00:07:48] Christina: Yeah, totally, totally. I mean, and that’s, that’s something that, um, um, like the docs team has done, but I know that it even, it took them. I mean, I’ve been there for four years and so I joined a little bit after they’d already kind [00:08:00] of started. They’re overhaul of everything, but I know that, you know, they’re, they’re still iterating things and they have, you know, plugins and tools and stuff. [00:08:08] And, um, when we add new things to the platform like Microsoft learn, which, you know, are like these video component, like lessons like that sort of thing, like that had to have a whole new template, um, and, and had a whole new thing in terms of how you submit stuff to it. And yeah, there, there can be lots of stuff, but I have comp I have faith. [00:08:26] It that you are gonna have done what you need done and, you [00:08:31] Brett: what I’m debating though is. Okay. So when I, when I went through the onboarding, one of the questions in one of the many forms I filled out was, do you have a disability? And it listed examples of disabilities and it included bipolar. And it also said that disabilities are protected and they want her to know about them because they actually legally have to have so many people would just so, so I, I went ahead, said I have a disability and I’m [00:09:00] debating if, if depression kicks in and I’m unable to complete a high pressure task, I might just go, I’m like, just talk to my manager and see if, uh, if he understands that bipolar is going to get in my way. [00:09:18] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I think that it’s, I think the hard thing with you is that it’s unpredictable, so you don’t know when it’s going to hit, but I do feel like if it is like, if you feel like you’re in the place where I’m not going to meet this deadline because of this. Yeah. I think you need to have a [00:09:33] Brett: Like, I don’t wanna, I don’t want it to be seen as like I’m making excuses and I have this like card I can play anytime I want to. I’m just like, [00:09:41] Christina: No, no, no. And I [00:09:42] Brett: them to know it’s valid. [00:09:44] Christina: No, and I don’t think anybody will see it that way. I think that it’s just one of those things where you have to be like, okay, if you know, um, Okay. And, and I, and I think it’s one of the things you don’t want to preemptively say. I think it’s one of those things where in the [00:10:00] event that let’s say that you were like, we have to have this thing done. [00:10:04] Um, and, and you, for some reason felt like you weren’t able to do it, then you need to just communicate why, so that they can make alternative arrangements, like your bus factor I’m sure. Is the bus factor, meaning like how likely is this to like completely die if bread is hit by a bus tomorrow? [00:10:22] Brett: Oh, I like that. [00:10:23] Christina: um, like, you know, it be, uh, frustrating and annoying and bad? [00:10:29] Yeah. But like, ideally none of us should, should be like that high of a bus factor where like everything stops, you know what I mean? [00:10:39] Brett: Yeah, no, I’ve always gone out of my way to make sure that. If I disappear just for whatever reason, I liked the idea of a bus bus factor. I like that terminology, but I’ve always gone out of my way to make sure everything I do is documented. Someone else has their finger on the pulse of what I’m doing. [00:10:56] And I can disappear anytime. I want to, like, that’s a sense of [00:11:00] freedom for me. [00:11:01] Christina: It is, it is. I mean, some people, and I will admit, like for myself, this was a hard thing to kind of come to terms with, but like we’re all replaceable and there is something freeing. I think when you like, realize that it’s like, no life will go on. If I’m not here, the work will be done. It might not be as good. [00:11:16] It might be different, but the work will get done. It’s just a matter of making sure that it’s documented and that you’re communicating properly where I’ve made mistakes before is I haven’t communicated well, I wasn’t going to be ready for something and, and that’s not a good thing. So I think communicate when, you know, I’m not going to hit this. [00:11:34] Um, I like, I wouldn’t do like a preemptive heads up because that might set expectations that can’t be relied on and that’s not accurate. Uh, but you know, being able to be preemptive and be, but like being able to say, like, if you know what’s happening and it’s coming, it’s like, Hey, I’m going to need help on this. [00:11:52] And that’s the thing too, right? Like, this is the nice thing about the fact that you work for a company now and you work on a team is you’re not an island. [00:12:00] Like you were an island for so long. You had to rely on yourself and you didn’t have anybody else to be able to count on. Um, even if you are working on your own projects, you’re not the only person. [00:12:11] So there’s, there’s freedom in that too. And knowing, Hey, like it isn’t all on me. [00:12:17] Brett: Oh, my God. I don’t think I told you who the new person that got hired to my team is [00:12:22] Christina: No, you didn’t. [00:12:25] Brett: I want you to guess it’s someone from our past. [00:12:29] Christina: Um, is it Victor? [00:12:31] Brett: is That was really good. [00:12:34] Christina: Okay. So the reason I knew is because you told me that Victor had introduced you to the guy who got you on the job. So that was why I was thinking that, oh my God, that’s awesome. I know he’s been like, he’s been doing his own thing for a while now [00:12:48] Brett: Well, and he got into, he was working with a startup and, and as startups are want to do, they screwed him. And then he suddenly regretted not taking the job that he got me, uh, [00:13:00] or like that he got me in the door for. And, uh, he came back and, and our manager was super excited. Like he loves Victor so much. Um, [00:13:10] Christina: great. I mean, this is awesome. I’m really, I’m so happy about this. Cause I know like, yeah, like this is really good and this can be really good for Victor. [00:13:19] Brett: yes, we were. We’re going to be a big ha it’ll be me, Aaron and Victor will be the writers. And, maybe we’ll we should have Victor on the podcast [00:13:28] Christina: Oh my God. Victory would be great to have on the podcast. [00:13:31] Brett: Next next week. We’ll see how it goes. Um, but yeah, uh, Victor on and I’m excited because Victor is someone that I trust with like, uh, editing it, like in the same voice that the rest of us are using. [00:13:46] So it like, he’s perfectly capable. Aaron and I have like documented and worked on like a style guide basically. [00:13:54] Christina: yes. Yeah, because you need to have like a consistent voice. [00:13:56] Brett: Victor, as a former editor in chief and a good [00:14:00] writer, uh, he’s going to fit right into that. [00:14:03] Christina: yeah, no, he’s going to be great. And, um, that’s so awesome. So for listeners out there who don’t know Brett and I’s background, [00:14:12] Brett: Oh, we probably should have. [00:14:13] Christina: Yeah. So, so yeah, so, so I’m just, uh, putting this there. So, okay. So 14 years ago in 2007, uh, Brett and I both started writing and for a blog that used to exist called the unofficial apple weblog or T way w and that was honestly the beginning of my career. [00:14:33] And, um, so much of, uh, well, I guess the real beginning was, was I had a gig with USA today, um, uh, that spring, but that was the beginning of my tech writing career. And, um, you joined a couple of months after me, but not that long after. And Victor was our boss at T UAW and a download squad. Uh, he was the site producer for both of those sites. [00:14:54] And we wrote, we, both of us were at both of those sites. Um, and then Brett ended up going on to work at [00:15:00] the dev team at AOL. Um, and, and I wound up going to Mashable, but, um, but Victor was our boss and is just a really great guy. And. Um, so this is, this is that’s awesome. I’m really excited about this. [00:15:16] Brett: Victor is, uh, has, has, um, varied, very varied interests. And, uh, a lot of it is like, he’s just, he’s into magic. He’s into puppets [00:15:30] Christina: He’s into puppets. He’s into stand up comedy like, like Victor is [00:15:34] Brett: standup, but he’s also dark. And that’s what I really appreciate [00:15:37] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. He’s dark. He’s funny. He’s eclectic. That was the really great thing about those old house yawn, like blogging days, um, which don’t exist anymore. Uh, really for lots of reasons, uh, which it is what it is. I mean, I think it’s probably largely a good thing. [00:15:53] A history of blogging [00:15:53] Christina: I look back on that time and I was able to do the very rare thing, which [00:16:00] was turn at $10, a post blogging gig into. A full-time six figure salary. Um, as a, as a journalist, uh, most people didn’t do that, but, um, uh, it was one of these, it was this great period of time where you had people who were good writers, they weren’t necessarily professionals, but they were passionate about what they were doing. [00:16:20] And because the old media hadn’t caught up with what was happening with digital yet you had opportunity for a really big audience of people who were interested in what you did. And so I feel like the talent that we had at TCW and it downloads squad and at the other, um, weblogs zinc sites, like we had a really nice, like mix of just eclectic, interesting people who were really passionate about what they were writing about, which is not the case always. [00:16:51] Um, with, with professional journalists, like some people are really passionate about their beat. Some people. This is a job, you know, like [00:17:00] I was assigned to cover this and I’m a writer first and I’m going to figure this out. [00:17:04] Brett: yeah, like this w I too, always my first, uh, like professional blogging gig and I did not re so weblogs was built on this idea that you pay a little for like quick content. And so basically if you wrote a post for two or download squad, you got paid 10 bucks, which is shit. [00:17:29] And I didn’t know it at the time time until I wrote for like, uh, like life hacker and that they pay 10 times as much for even a short post. Oh, I didn’t realize how bad that pay was until I, until I moved on. [00:17:48] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, no. And that was a time when you could, it was actually kind of amazing in some cases to get paid at all because everyone was doing blogs, but it was one of those things where it was like, unless you were working for an establishment place, [00:18:00] people were just trying to make it work. So like a lot of people were starting their own blogs, like Mashable, where I worked for seven years, like Pete started it, he was in, he was 19, he was in his parents’ bedroom in Aberdeen, Scotland. [00:18:12] And he was just like, I’m really into this web 2.0 shit. So I’m just going to start a blog and then it, you know, turned into a business. Um, and, and he’s a millionaire now, which good for him. Um, I am trying not to be salty. Um, but, uh, but he built it into a real business, even though it didn’t quite end the way, uh, you know, we would have wanted it still around, still doing its thing and, uh, But the weblogs model because AOL bought it a couple of months before we joined. [00:18:43] And, and so that was kind of like, there was like this big war between like weblogs Inc and Gawker because the Gawker sites, although they did have some salaried employees, a lot of it was also paper post. And, um, you know, you were, you were just getting out [00:19:00] there, you were just like creating, you’re just trying to like, get your name out there. [00:19:03] You’re just trying to kind of like hustle and, and do it. And yeah, like you said, the money was nothing. Um, I always treated it cause it for you, it wasn’t like your main gig for me was, and I didn’t make enough to pay anything on that. Like I, you know what I mean? Like I was still like [00:19:20] Brett: How many posts could you possibly like? There’s no way you could write enough posts in a month to pay rent on 10 bucks at posts. [00:19:26] Christina: Absolutely not. And I would get an additional fee for doing some of the video stuff and like features you would get a little bit more, but no, I mean, I think at like max, I was probably able to get in. Yeah. 800 bucks a month or something, which you know, and that was like, if I working across three sites and that’s on like working my ass off, right. [00:19:43] Like I’m not making shit. Um, I was young enough and I even F that I looked at it and I was like, look, I’m a really good writer. I don’t have the pedigree in terms of like, I haven’t, I don’t have a graduate degree in journalism. I don’t go to [00:20:00] Columbia or NYU. I’m not going to be able to get a job at Conde Nast, even though I’m better than their writers. [00:20:08] Right. Like I knew that I was like, I’m not getting an internship at a magazine and I’m not getting an internship at a newspaper that will pay anything. So I have to build this brand myself. And then the hope was, at least for me, the hope was I was like, if I can do well at this. Then someone else will be able to pick me up and pay me. [00:20:27] And I was really lucky because first what happened was that AMC, the movie chain signed me on a contract where they paid me $1,500 a month for, for blogging, um, certain number of stories a day. And I would do it in the morning and it was really easy work. Um, almost no original reporting. And then Mashable hired me, um, in, uh, August of 2009. [00:20:50] And, and their, their starting salary was like $48,000 a year, which at that time in my life, like imagine going from like not making $800 a month to [00:21:00] suddenly like, you know, actually having enough money for it, for rent and stuff. It was, it was life changing. Um, but I got really lucky because in retrospect, like I look back and I’m like, God, how, how was I so naive that I just assumed, okay. [00:21:14] If I just do this for a couple of years, enough people are going to like me, I’m going to be called up to the big leagues. I mean, [00:21:20] Brett: Yeah, that’s what I was going to say was you were talking about like, being passionate about your beat and for the short period where I wrote for life hacker, I, I was, I just kept getting handed stories that I did not give a shit about. And, and I would write my, you know, 200 to 700 words, whatever it called for. [00:21:42] And I would just be bullshitting just like to fill word count because I don’t care. I just, I just was trying not to, you know, those posts that you actually express an opinion in, and then you get like just vicious reader feedback. [00:22:00] Um, I was trying to avoid that because it was one of the largest platforms I had blogged on. [00:22:07] Christina: Yeah. And, and the, the life hacker commenters were certainly nicer than on the other sites, but that community, like, I remember when I first started at gizmo. Which was, you know, a couple of weeks before Gawker formally ended. And so already the commentary is, were angry and freaking out and taking it out on the people whose fault it definitely was not right. [00:22:29] It’s like the commenters are all worried about where they’re going to go. And we’re like, look, we don’t know who’s going to buy us. We just hope we’re still employed. Right. But so you had like a, um, in, in some of the sites, all the sites have their own communities of readers. Um, it’s less now because the, the company that bought all those properties from Univision has just done such a piss, poor job of everything and, and morale there isn’t an all time low, but you know, you have like this community of commenters and they feel like a certain ownership of things. [00:22:59] And some of them [00:23:00] are mean, some of them are like really mean life hacker tends to be nice. The Jalopnik people tended to be nice. [00:23:07] Brett: Um, [00:23:08] Christina: The Gizmodo people could be brutal. And, and so when I first joined, they were like, you don’t have to sign up, you don’t have to respond to comments, whatever. I was like, dude, put me in coach, I’m here for it. [00:23:18] Right. I was like, so ganged up. Cause like I love, I love a fight. Um, but uh, also it, fortunately for me, very rarely, I mean, I would get the typical like, like shut up cunt stuff, but like, it was actually more, it was less common than you would think. Like I felt bad because some of the other writers got it so much worse than me. [00:23:40] And like I was newer and I’m like, okay, they’re being nice to me. I guess. I remember there was one time though. I did like, this was actually really funny because it sort of went viral, but my, my reply sort of went viral on another platform. So. I was in a car. Um, I was late to work and so I didn’t take the [00:24:00] subway. [00:24:00] I took like an Uber and I, um, had written like this exhausted comparison review of a bunch of different laptops and I made a video for it. And I had said basically that the, the Dell wound up caning coming out, like better than, than the Mac book at the time, in terms of like all around. Like if you don’t want to not go west, like in terms of, uh, features, price, battery, life, whatever, like it came up better. [00:24:26] And it surprised me. And some commentary was like, you know, all you are as reviewer. You don’t know anything about repair support costs or any of this or that. And, and so I just kind of. Jotted off an email. And I was like, actually, I was a support tech in college and I’ve been certified to work on apple things and I’ve done actual PC repair and whatnot, and just like kind of listed things off. [00:24:49] And it was just, you know, like I didn’t, I wasn’t even that mean, it was just kind of like one of those things. And somehow like my response to this guy trying to mansplain me and tell me, I didn’t know how to do my job. Like someone, [00:25:00] um, screenshot I did and put it on Twitter and then like it became popular and it was so funny. [00:25:04] Cause I remember getting. Like slacks from people who didn’t even work on editorial, like from product people, like from women in product who were like, thank you so much for saying that this is so awesome to be able to stand up to this. And the commentary is just like ate him alive. And that was actually, that’s one of my favorite memories of the comments of that era was just then like eating him alive. [00:25:25] And then he tried to come back and like backtrack it and be like, oh no, I wasn’t saying. And they all like just came after him for that. And then he was like, I’m sorry, Christina was having a bad day. [00:25:34] Brett: Yeah. [00:25:35] Christina: very funny. Which, which, you know, that’s, it’s nice when that happens, but it’s also funny. It’s nice to be in a world where like, you don’t have to deal with that. [00:25:44] Like, I mean, I do on YouTube comments sometimes, but, but in general, most people are very nice in, uh, in corporate Def Rahel versus vicious commenters on the internet. [00:25:55] Brett: I, uh, I, I, uh, called the commenter a Dick once in a [00:26:00] response and then immediately I apologize for it. [00:26:04] Christina: Yeah. [00:26:04] Brett: their response was, yeah, no, I’m sorry. I was having a bad day. So now. Anytime I read a mean email or a mean comment. I just go ahead and like give myself that response in advance. I just assume they’re having a bad day, [00:26:19] Christina: Yeah. [00:26:20] Brett: especially with customer support, because that’s totally different. [00:26:23] Like you have to be polite with customer support. [00:26:25] Christina: do, you do like, like it’s one of those things where it’s just it’s uh, yeah. Um, you can’t, um, yeah. Uh, you have to be like above it and it sucks. Although, like, it gets to the point where obviously, if people are cursing at you or saying other things, you have the right to be like, I’m not going to talk anymore, but yeah. [00:26:44] You have to be the bigger person. [00:26:46] Brett: So I want to tell you about my customer support experience with the New York times, but I’m going to tell you about ritual protein for. [00:26:54] Christina: Yes, please do. [00:26:55] Brett: So, uh, because we have to, we have to keep the lights on people. [00:27:00] This is, [00:27:00] Christina: Yeah. [00:27:01] Brett: this is for everybody’s good. Um, [00:27:04] green powders can feel intimidating with all that, no pain, no gain stuff associated with them, but the truth is deep down like cellular level deep. [00:27:04] Sponsor: Ritual Protein [00:27:12] Brett: We all need protein. And it’s about more than just muscles rituals. Team was scientists. Re-imagined protein from the ground up and from the inside, out from how it’s made to who it’s for the result is that. Plant-based protein offered in three premium formulations for distinct life stages and unique nutrient needs all made with the same high standards approach and commitment to traceability that ritual is known for whether you’re doing reps or you’re just more into dog walks. [00:27:40] Ritual is introducing essential protein here to shake things up. I haven’t had as much time as I’d like to cook lately. I make dinner almost every night, but lunch. That’s a totally different story. I’ve been using ritual as a meal replacement for my lunches, getting the protein and the nutrition I need. [00:27:58] So I don’t feel hungry and I [00:28:00] still have time to enjoy my lunch break. And now that I’m actually on the clock with a meeting schedule, that’s a lifestyle. And I’ve used pea protein in the past and making it taste good is nearly impossible. So props to ritual on making pea protein tastes not at all like pea protein, and they did it with no added sugar or sugar alcohols. [00:28:20] The trick is handcrafted vanilla flavor made with a direct from farmer vanilla bean extract, sustainably harvested and Madagascar. And I know this because of the visible supply chain. You always know what’s in their formulas, where the ingredients come from and why they’re included essential protein comes in clean plant-based formula, specifically created to support nutrient needs of different life stages like 18 plus pregnancy and postpartum and 50 plus 20 grams of pea protein. [00:28:50] Plus a complete amino acid profile made with a central Coleen like all ritual products. Essential protein is soy-free gluten-free and formulated with [00:29:00] non GMO ingredients. So why not shake up your ritual , to make trying something new, less scary ritual offers a money back guarantee. [00:29:08] If you’re not 100% in love. Plus our listeners get 10% off during your first three months. Just visit ritual.com/overtired to add essential protein today. That’s ritual.com/overtired. Thanks to ritual for their continued support of over-tired and our weirdness. [00:29:28] Christina: Yes. Thank you so much ritual. [00:29:30] Paying too much for the Times [00:29:30] Brett: So I tried to cancel my New York times subscription, [00:29:34] Christina: Oh no. Yeah, I’ve done this. Tell me about. [00:29:37] Brett: so, okay. So I was paying 17 bucks a month for the New York times. [00:29:42] Christina: Which is too much. You can get a better deal. Go on [00:29:45] Brett: Yes, so that I don’t read it enough to justify 20 bucks a month. So I go to cancel and you have two options. You can call a phone number or you can do a live chat. You can’t [00:30:00] just click, cancel my subscription. [00:30:01] Christina: No, you [00:30:02] Brett: So I do the live chat and I get this. [00:30:05] Hi, how can I help you? Blah, blah, blah. And I said, please cancel my subscription. And I’m sorry to see you. I’m sorry to hear you want to go. Can I ask why? And, um, I wanted to respond with, just cancel my subscription, but instead I responded with just the word budget, um, cause I’m not feeling talkative. I’m pissed that I have to go through this. Uh, and they come back and they’re like, I would be honored to offer you your exact same plan for basically they got me down to like seven bucks a month and, and, and I took it cause I, [00:30:41] Christina: Absolutely cause at $7 a month, that’s worth [00:30:42] Brett: It covers the crossword puzzle too. [00:30:45] Christina: Well, that’s that? Okay. See, this is the thing, the crossword puzzle, especially if you have a partner who really likes the crossword puzzle, man, they used to sell that. I think they still do as like a subscription just on its own. [00:30:56] Brett: Yeah, they do. But it was included in the package I had. [00:31:00] So, and, and, you know, and I was willing to get a subscription to it on its own, but seven bucks a month, I can justify that. I read just enough New York times and do just enough crossword puzzles. So now it’s affordable, but it annoys me that they have a special rate for people who want to cancel [00:31:17] Christina: Oh, I agree. No. And, and, and, um, a lot of places are like this, where if you call them like cable as the same way, like if you call and cancel, like. [00:31:24] Brett: for sure. [00:31:25] Christina: They, they will give it to you, but I’ve, I’ve, I’ve run into this. Um, okay. So my, my thing with the times, and this was like five years ago, but they had a deal where they had started doing in-app purchases, I guess, on the iPhone. [00:31:40] And the deal was, cause I think I still pay the same rate. Let me see what my rate for the New York times is. Um, yeah, so I pay $120 a year for their digital, all access package, which is not as good as what you’re paying, but it’s $10 a month. And like you, you know, completely, um, like, like good. [00:32:00] And, um, I had been paying, I think I was paying like $15 a month or $18 a month or whatever. [00:32:06] And so I went through the same thing where I was like, okay, can I just switch my account over? Right. And they were like, no, you have to cancel and then sign up for a new thing. And I was like, okay. And when I was on the phone with them to cancel, they were like, well, we can give you this rate. And they were giving me like a better rate than, you know, like, uh, had been paying, but it still wasn’t as good as like the subscribing in the app rate. [00:32:29] And so I was like talking to the person. I was like, you understand that? I’m not going to agree to keep my you’d like, like the email address I have attached to this account does not matter enough from me. You know what I mean? Like, like I will just create a new user ID is not a big deal. So I wound up canceling, um, and resubscribing in the app, but the advantage of that is that five years later, if I need ever need to cancel my subscription, I can just cancel it in the yeah. [00:32:57] Brett: Yeah, totally. [00:32:58] Christina: Which is nice, but yeah, [00:33:00] but they do that and it’s frustrating. The, the magazine companies do it too. Like, I don’t think that the new Yorker would necessarily give me a discount. Again. I subscribed to the new Yorker through the app store. The frustration thing there is that that means I don’t get a tote bag, but whatever, um, which you’d be shocked, how much money the frickin new Yorker makes off of there. [00:33:18] Just off of like the [00:33:19] Brett: Are you a tote bag person? Do you [00:33:22] Christina: I’m not, [00:33:22] Brett: a tote bag? [00:33:24] Christina: I mean, sometimes I have enough of them and I probably have a new Yorker one, but, but the new Yorker is I’m not even joking. Like they’ve made shitloads of money just on people subscribing because they want the tote bag. Um, but yeah, but it’s one of those funny things where like, I think it was wired where they wound up giving me like a year for like $10 or something. [00:33:46] I have to physically get the magazine. I also get the digital stuff, but. You know, I’ll deal with that. I usually throw it away. Sorry to wired. But, uh, I don’t, I don’t deal with physical magazines, but it was like $10. I was like, [00:34:00] yeah. Okay. I’ll, I’ll deal with that. But, um, yeah, I know it’s frustrating that you have to call to do that. [00:34:07] And it’s also frustrating. They have the different things, but I guess it is one of those old lessons where like, everything is malleable. I think that the, probably the one company, and I don’t know if actually they probably still have wiggle room too. I was trying to think of like the wall street journal has a wiggle room. [00:34:22] They probably do have a wiggle room, but I doubt that it’s as much as the times, the wall street journals always been like one of the publications, I respect them in so far as they’ve always had a pay wall. And like, it’s been more and less poorest at times, but they’ve never been, but they’ve never been like, you can just go to our website and read everything. [00:34:40] Like they had a paywall on the nineties, so, um, which I respect about them, but their subscription is like $400 a year or something. [00:34:50] Brett: I recently subscribed to Jacoby. [00:34:54] Christina: yeah, [00:34:55] Brett: Uh, you know, for my socialist reading [00:34:58] Christina: was going to [00:34:58] Brett: and, uh, and [00:35:00] it’s a quarterly and the first issue I got came with a card that asked me if I wanted to pay for, like, I was like a $275 donation. And they would like, I don’t remember what the deal was. They would like give a subscription to someone, but basically you’re, you’re showing support for, for a socialist publication, but it was just funny. [00:35:22] Cause I’m used to wired magazine where they’re like, Hey, give us five bucks and we’ll send you another five years worth of magazines. [00:35:28] Christina: right, [00:35:29] Brett: And your COVID like give us $275 and we’ll give a magazine to someone else. [00:35:34] Christina: right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah. Uh, Joe Kuvan or Jacobin or whatever they’re like, [00:35:39] Brett: I, I’m not sure how to say [00:35:40] Christina: Yeah. I, I, I’m not sure either, but they’re like pleased. Yes. I, I need to have, uh, money please. I give ’em. Okay. So I, um, so Deadspin, uh, rip, um, best blog ever. I mean, it still exists, but it’s scabbed spin now and fuck those people, um, genuinely, uh, who, who, um, work on it [00:36:00] now? [00:36:00] Um, they started their own site defector and I last year gave them, um, a thousand dollars, um, as they were starting up, um, to like be a subscriber. And I think that I’m coming up on like the renewal thing, and I think they’re going to renew me for a thousand dollars and I feel bad. Cause part of me I’m like, look, I’ll give you $50, a hundred dollars, whatever a year. [00:36:22] I don’t know if I want to keep giving them a thousand dollars, but at the same time I want to support like independent media. So. [00:36:32] Brett: Um, yeah. Like my brain went somewhere during all of this and it didn’t come back. Like I had a thought and I was going to continue this conversation. Oh, well, you know, don’t tell our other sponsors this, but you want to know who my favorite sponsor is. [00:36:52] Christina: a text expander. [00:36:54] Brett: my God. Yes. [00:36:56] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:36:56] Christina: I love text expander so [00:36:57] Brett: Out of all of this sponsor’s products that I use, [00:37:00] text expanders, the one I use the most often with the most pleasure. [00:37:06] Christina: Yeah. I, I use it so much for so many different things. Like it’s crazy. Um, I have, I mean, you do stuff like, okay. How much of your stuff is, is calling and executing scripts versus like doing, um, actually like, like expanding texts. I’m just curious. [00:37:23] Brett: Well, so I have probably eight or nine, 900 snippets, total, uh, which is feasible because you can now pop up an inline search to find the snippet you forgot about. But I would say a good 25% of those execute some kind of shell script. [00:37:40] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say that’s that’s um, I don’t have that many, um, but I would say I probably have up with the same percentage, which is really nice, although even in some cases, uh it’s if it won’t execute the shell script, it’ll like output what the shell script needs to be. If I’m in a terminal situation, which is really useful. [00:37:59] And, and I [00:38:00] say that because, you know, it’s cross platform, which, uh, means you can use it, you know, on the web and on, uh, on Mac and on windows. And that’s useful because, um, although it’s great on other Macs, be able to execute like apple scripts or, or, or shell scripts or whatever, some of that can get kind of wonky. [00:38:17] If you’re on a non Mac system, whereas if I’m just outfitting, whatever the value of the, of the script is, um, so that I can put it into whatever command line I’m in, then obviously that doesn’t matter, but it’s so useful. Like I use it for, uh, for tutorials all the time. And, and like, if I’m doing, um, uh, live streaming or, uh, like, like, uh, pair programming or, um, that haven’t done this recently, but if I’m, um, doing live demos at a conference, I don’t usually have the ability. [00:38:47] Well, I mean, I guess I could memorize every single thing, but you know, you don’t want to get, like, you don’t want to get a letter wrong when you’re typing something out, live in front of like 4,000 people. And then all of a sudden, like your, your script doesn’t work. [00:39:00] So having a text, expander snippet, the folds, you exactly what you needed to do, and you just have to hit a couple of keys is the best. [00:39:07] Brett: Yeah. Um, my, one of my favorite features that they added a while ago now it’s probably been years, but they don’t, they never included in like their sponsor reads. It’s their suggested snippets, like text expanders already watching what you type. So it can detect like when you trigger a snippet and it can also tell you if you’ve typed the same thing. [00:39:32] I don’t know what its threshold is, but if it sees something three or four times, you’re typing the exact same thing, it’ll suggest you make a snippet for it. And you can go into text expander, go into suggested snippets, find that piece of text, assign an abbreviation to it. And then in the future, you never have to type it again. [00:39:51] And if you do type it. It’ll remind you, Hey, you have a snippet for that. It’s it’s beautiful because once you have [00:40:00] 800 snippets, it’s really easy to forget that you already snippets something. [00:40:05] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. That’s really nice. That’s really nice. Um, I also like the fact, um, I haven’t done this as much with the fact that like you can publish like collections of things that can then be updated. [00:40:16] Brett: Yeah. I just published one called cursed. I just published it yesterday. Actually. It’s I wrote it a while ago, but it’s a JavaScript based, uh, uh, collection of snippets on what are the snippet group, um, that you can add a snippet with whatever swear word you want as the abbreviation. And then when you type that swear word, it outputs a string of random symbols, uh, keeping like the ING or S at the end of it. [00:40:49] So if you. Uh, uh, this fucking thing is bullshit. My snippets would replace it with this blanking [00:41:00] thing is bull blank. [00:41:02] Christina: Oh, that’s nice. [00:41:03] Brett: Yeah, that’s available. Uh, I I’ll, I’ll put a link to it in the show notes, but anyone can use that. You’re welcome. [00:41:10] Christina: Yes. That’s awesome. And so, uh, so Tex expander, uh, what else do we need to say about them? Um, you can go to text expander.com. Do we have an offer code for people? [00:41:20] Brett: If you go to text expander.com/podcast, uh, overtired listeners will get 20% off their first year of texts. Expander. [00:41:30] Christina: Excellent. Excellent. Yeah, it’s one of those services that, um, and we say this like genuinely, like, and then we try to do this with most of our sponsors, but like we were longtime users before they ever sponsored us. We will be longtime users if they see sponsoring us, like, it’s one of those things that like I will pay for, for ever, because I get so much value out. [00:41:51] Brett: Yeah, it’s really nice that they sponsor us because it’s a product I love, but yeah, I’m 100% a sold [00:42:00] customer. I will, I will never not use text expander. [00:42:05] To Electron or not to Electron [00:42:05] Christina: Okay. So, so that’s an interesting segue to one of the things that’s been on our list for a couple of weeks that we haven’t talked about. Yeah. So, uh, so one password. [00:42:16] Brett: yeah. Yeah. Everyone seems pretty pissed. Uh, so for anyone not following the, uh, the uproar one password announced their latest beta is an electron only app and they’re no longer making, uh, native Mac apps. [00:42:35] Christina: Yeah. And I mean, it’s still like, you know, they’re obviously an ordinate of windows apps actually, because of the windows that had previously [00:42:42] Brett: that’s the whole point of going to electron is not having to make platform based apps. [00:42:46] Christina: Right. Well, yeah, well, uh, well, yes and no. Right? Cause they still are doing native iOS and Android apps, but, um, but they, they had previously been doing, um, native Mac app [00:42:56] Brett: they make a catalyst version [00:42:58] Christina: they could, I [00:43:00] think that what they said was that the, um, performance wasn’t as good. [00:43:06] Brett: worse than electron, [00:43:08] Christina: where they were claiming that this web UI stuff with slower than electronic. [00:43:11] So I mean, th th th this is, this is what, um, some of their engineers have said, but obviously people are mad about it because, and I look, I think electron is like, I get why it’s a joke and we can all make the jokes about it. But I feel like a lot of [00:43:27] Brett: you love vs. Code. [00:43:29] Christina: I was going to say it’s possible to make a good vs. [00:43:31] It’s possible to make a good electron app. Uh, discord is actually a very good electron app. Um, there are some of them that, uh, and discord contributes significantly to the project. Obviously, it’s going to be more of a resource hog than some other things like vs code, I think is probably the best electron app. [00:43:46] Um, it shows what you can do with it, but yeah, that’s not the same as a native, as native tool. I feel like people use electronic shorthand and like assume everything with electronic sucks. I think that’s unfair, but I also feel like [00:44:00] there are valid criticisms for it. Like I personally don’t think catalyst is any better than electronic. [00:44:05] Brett: I agree with that. Like, my problem with both catalysts and electron are, is like system integration. Like there a native Mac app works with all of my tools and I’m able to integrate it with all of my other tools and they can talk to each other and I can use system services and text fields and all of these things that make a Mac fun for me and electron defeats that it’s the major reason I can’t switch to vs code is because none of my non IDE tools work in vs code and it, it, it kills my flow. [00:44:39] Um, [00:44:40] Christina: Right. [00:44:41] Brett: that said, I really don’t give a shit about one point password being an electron app. How often am I actually in the one password app hardly ever. I’m usually using it through browser plugins anyway. [00:44:54] Christina: Right. Well, I mean, I think this is honestly the whole thing and, and I will say at least, and I haven’t used the beta because [00:45:00] they are apparently going to change this, but they changed the key binding and that’s a deal breaker for me. And apparently like in the [00:45:07] Brett: binding you already can customize. [00:45:09] Christina: Yeah. [00:45:09] Apparently you can’t customize it in the beta. And so I, I I’ve been using, you know, command, um, backslash, um, for, I mean, that’s, that is their key binding. Like I have a t-shirt from. [00:45:21] Brett: yeah, [00:45:22] Christina: That has that on it, like literally. Yeah. Like literally I have a t-shirt from them that has that on it. Right. So, um, that is their key binding, but apparently they’ve switched to something else. [00:45:32] I don’t know if it conflicts with me. I don’t know what it is. All I know is that they’ve changed it to something else. And I’m like, I’m not down with that. So I haven’t used the beta, but I have looked at people like, uh, like my friend, um, Miguel, uh, Kaisa, uh, creator of genome and a very big Mac fan. Um, he was like comparing the, I guess, memory usage and some of the other stuff, it is weird to me how much memory it uses and the fact that, [00:46:00] because it is an electronic app that they still have, like, this is a weird thing to me. [00:46:03] And I don’t know if it’s a benefit of, if it’s a requirement of electronic, I feel like they could do this natively, but the helper app that runs in your toolbar, apparently, like there has to be a whole process for that too, which I feel like, I feel like you could make that name. I feel like, I feel like you could make that like in swift or objective C and you wouldn’t need to have like the full JavaScript power of like a full Chrome browser just to be in your toolbar. [00:46:32] Like when the app is running. I don’t care. [00:46:35] Brett: Yeah. Like the background processes that handle like all of the security and everything still have to be native to the machine. [00:46:43] Christina: Yeah. Well, th th the backend is all rust, but yeah, I, so I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t know. All I know is that there are some performance issues people are complaining about. I’m sure they’ll fix them, but in general, I agree with you. I don’t care so much about my, um, password manager, whether it’s native app or not. [00:46:59] If [00:47:00] the thing, the tool that’s running in the background is going to be using it more memory. I don’t love that, but I’ll deal with it. But also in fairness, I think safari is potentially the one exception here. Although even there, like they could, they could bundle their safari extension in a different way. [00:47:17] Like. It is, it is a web service now, like it is a full-on like cloud service. It is no longer a local bald where everything is done on your local machine. Like you have, there are benefits from having it locally available on your machine. Right. And, and you can integrate that way, but like most people are using this in the web browser, whereas accessing their vault, which exists on a server, meaning, you know, I bet I would bet that a lot of their users don’t even use the app at all. [00:47:47] They just use the extension. [00:47:49] Brett: Yeah. [00:47:50] Christina: So I’m with you. I kind of can’t get into the super uproar. I get why people are mad because we’re not mad that I guess sad. [00:47:59] Brett: maybe. [00:48:00] Yeah. Sad is a good word, but the rage is inexcusable. [00:48:03] Christina: The rage is inexcusable. Also. I think people who are mad about the lack of like, oh, I can’t have, you know, like local volts. [00:48:09] Yeah. Cause their security model and the stuff that they’ve done has changed. Like, they’ve been very clear. They’re like, look for us to do some of the stuff we do. We can’t do it on the local side anymore. So we are, they are looking into a way where you could sell post, um, vaults, which I actually like, because in that case, if I wanted to have my own self hosting system on my own home server where I still pay them and I had this as a backup or whatever, like I actually like that as an option, but there are now server side things that they’re doing where they’re like, yeah, we can’t do this with the local volt model anymore. [00:48:40] So you have to subscribe and you have to use our, you know, um, our clouds to store your stuff. I trust them. I certainly, it’s weird to me where people who are like, I don’t trust them, but yet they trust the encrypted file being stored in iCloud or Dropbox. I’m like, okay, the file encryptions, the same [00:49:00] Dropbox. [00:49:00] And I called our. Are are not going to be any more secure in my opinion than like the company whose entire business is going to be like, relying on, like, we have to make sure like, Hey, they’re probably using the same, you know, type of servers, like Dropbox isn’t on AWS anymore. But, but I cloud is right. So they’re probably still using AWS or something. [00:49:21] They’re just managing all their stuff themselves. So it just seems silly to me, people who are like, oh yeah, I don’t trust the security. And then they’re putting it in a Dropbox folder [00:49:29] Brett: I will, I will. I’ll like, I know people who work on the encryption and security side of one password and I, I trust one password implicitly. They would, they would not take shortcuts that would in any way, uh, in danger, their user’s security. If anything, it gets more secure over time. [00:49:50] Christina: Yeah, no, I agree with that. And I know people who work on it too. I don’t know them as well as you do, but I do know people who work on it. The one thing though, I think that at least for the Mac community, and, and I would [00:50:00] be curious in your feedback, I just feel like people feel like this is yet, this is yet another app that is no longer native. [00:50:06] And I feel like people are mourning that because the Mac is no longer a platform that at least for native development, meaning objective C swift with UI, it’s just no longer a priority. [00:50:17] Brett: loving mate, loving Mac apps is now the new, like gray beard, like native Mac apps are for old people. [00:50:26] Christina: they are. And it sucks. [00:50:28] Brett: It does suck. I’m old now. [00:50:30] Christina: I, yeah, I know. I hate it. And I keep, but it’s weird. I mean, I’m in this phase I’ve been working on. I’ve been wanting to write a blog post for a long time. I’ve been kind of trying to like work it out. So I’ll try to kind of work it out verbally before I write it out. [00:50:44] But kind, I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that like the Mac as a native platform is, is dying. And I’ve been coming to terms with that for a few years. And it’s really been upsetting for me. It’s really been a challenge for me because I’ve had to start looking at the fact that there’ve been [00:51:00] changes in direction of the Mac that I don’t love. [00:51:02] And, and there have been changes that like makes it feel less and less like the platform that I’ve love and the customizability and the native things. And like at a certain point, if the apps aren’t native anymore, you start to ask certain questions like, okay, why am I on this platform versus this other platform that would give me the same application? [00:51:21] And Mike, give me more customizability, right? Like you, you, at least if, if you’re someone like me, who’s like a long time Mac user and has very specific reasons for using a Mac, the reasons that you use it, a lot of them are at this point, either tied into the apple ecosystem or kind of tensed with nostalgia, but one of the things that’s been there has been like, you have a really like, as, as grouper would call it like Mac ass Mac apps, right? [00:51:45] Like really a really well-designed Mac apps. And, uh, it was either Gruber or it was, um, Brent Simmons who set that and [00:51:51] Brett: think it was, it was Brent Simmons. [00:51:52] Christina: is Brent Simmons. Okay. [00:51:53] Brett: Reblogged by Gerber, but [00:51:55] Christina: yes, yes, yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, all hail [00:52:00] OJI. Um, but like the good Mac ass Mac apps are few and far between now. And that sucks. And I guess what I’m coming to the conclusion with, and I’m having a, I’ve had a hard time kind of dealing with it, but I feel like I’ve almost, um, almost come to an acceptance phase, the web one. [00:52:20] Like for a week, we can, we can argue if it’s good or bad. And, and I think the apple played a large role in pushing developers away from developing native experiences for the Mac, but the web fucking one, man, like it is what it is. Like people, people hate electron, but I’m like, yeah, the web one, you know, like if I primarily have a web service, what is, what is in it for me to then spend the time and resources in trying to pin down a lot of other things and developing a native wrapper for that web service, like [00:52:54] Brett: Well, and, and if you don’t have a web service, you, you have a limited, [00:53:00] uh, limited usability anyway, like you, you have a more limited appeal, like a web service is the key to making a product indispensable and yeah, no, you are correct. Do you want to know what I did though? Speaking of security and passwords, [00:53:20] Christina: Yes, please. [00:53:21] Brett: I can now authorize pseudo with my watch. [00:53:26] Christina: Nice. [00:53:27] Brett: Yeah. What what’s annoying to me about that. Like, I’ll put a Lincoln, there’s a, uh, I had to find a, uh, build for the M one cause a different enclave. I don’t know, but you have to build the PID module, the Pam module four M one to get it to work. But once you do a, you can, anytime you type sudo and you have your watch on, it’ll ask you to authorize it on your watch and then it works. [00:53:56] But I, there are still so many [00:54:00] authorization dialogues on my Mac that I have to type a password into. What is it that keeps me from being able to have every dialogue work with my watch. [00:54:09] Christina: Yeah. [00:54:11] Brett: I want to, like, if I can do it with pseudo, you would think I’d be able to do it with like key chain. [00:54:17] Christina: Yeah, no, I agree. I think that, and I think there’s technically a way to do it. I think there’s stuff that apple would have to expose, but yeah, I agree. Because one of the things that I do, like, like, um, so at work, so I use off the primary, well, I use one password and I have my, okay, this is very bad. I should say this. [00:54:33] I realized the opposite here is not great. It is what it is for the things where it is required to be good. Then it’s actually in one place. But in general, for services where I have two factor authentication, I use author and one password, um, and author, because I, uh, AI, I do trust Twilio to have stuff and it’s encrypted, but I liked that it’s backup and portable and I can go from place to place and one password, because I like having the code stored in my password manager. [00:54:59] But with [00:55:00] certain things like for my Azure accounts, my work accounts, I have to use the Microsoft authenticator. Which is like a, it is like a, it’s similar to the Google auth app. Um, it also can actually do backups or whatever too. I could use that for everything, but it’s more convenient to, for me to use my other things. [00:55:16] What did you like about that? Is that that the, the watch can be a designated thing. So if I’m trying to log into one of my accounts or whatever, I can get the notification up on my watch versus my phone to then approve. And then it’ll, it’ll do the sign-on, um, a handshake in the browser. [00:55:33] Brett: of my authenticators work with my wife. [00:55:35] Christina: Yeah. The Microsoft authenticator works with the watch, which is really nice. [00:55:39] And, um, one thing I do like about that app, um, some of the other ones do this too, but I do like about it. If, um, it’s like done correctly, like when I’m trying to sign in for something, a pop-up notification will come on my phone, um, as I’m trying to log in, it says, you need to approve this with face ID or whatever.[00:56:00] [00:56:00] And then I can tap the notification will immediately open where I need to be. I approve. And then I can go back to the webpage, which is nice, but it’s even nicer when it’s just on my watch. And then it’ll just pop up my watch and I can just like tap and it’s and it’s. [00:56:13] Brett: Yeah, I would love that. I have, I have like four different, uh, like two factor apps, uh, one for Oracle, one Google authenticator, one that’s specifically for my Synology and author. And like, I have to keep track of which, which two factor log-ins are soaked into which app and it’s annoying. [00:56:38] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, I have, I mean, I basically, I mean, I have four, but like it’s basically two, right? It’s basically like the stuff that I use for my Microsoft accounts and then like my consumer stuff. [00:56:49] Brett: Yeah. Um, wow. So, so it’s been an hour. We did that. We just, so everyone who has made it through this episode knows we didn’t do a pre-show [00:57:00] at all. We just, we, we picked up the phone. [00:57:03] Christina: we wait. [00:57:04] Brett: And we’re like, let’s just see what happens. And then we did it and weirdly zero pop culture came up. [00:57:11] Christina: I know, I know, uh, next week we will be able to talk about it because I’m, I’m, uh, I’m going back to 2005 this weekend. [00:57:19] Brett: Oh yeah. [00:57:20] Christina: Yeah. So I’m, I’m flying to LA tomorrow morning and, uh, I’m going to see green day Weezer and fall boy on a Friday at Dodger stadium. [00:57:29] Brett: Oh man. We might have to have Aaron back for this top or this conversation. [00:57:32] Christina: Yeah. I’m very excited. Uh, so [00:57:36] Brett: a metal head, but apparently she has opinions about pop punk too. [00:57:40] Christina: yeah, that’s what, that’s what, uh, she was saying kind of in our doc. Yeah, this is good. So this, this concert, this is called the Hela mega tour. It was supposed to take place in July of 2020, obviously. Didn’t um, I’m, uh, I am sad that I, uh, so originally how this was [00:58:00] supposed to happen, and I’m still sad about this is that I was going to say. [00:58:04] Follow boy, Weezer. Um, um, and, uh, green day on like Saturday, and then I was going to see Taylor swift on Sunday [00:58:13] Brett: Right. I think you mentioned that. Yeah. [00:58:15] Christina: yeah, and, and obviously Taylor concert was canceled and not rescheduled, but this one, at least, uh, my friend Catherine and I are going to go, we’ve been like looking forward to this for like, you know, a year, well, more than a year and a half. [00:58:30] Cause I don’t even remember when we first got tickets been. We’ve been looking forward to this since like the beginning, like the end of 2019. I think so. Yeah. So, [00:58:40] Brett: it lives up to your expectations. [00:58:42] Christina: Well, even if the concert sucks and I don’t think it will, like, I’m just excited to, to see Catherine. Cause I haven’t seen her since 2019 and so that’ll be fun and I’m just excited to like get out of like the, you know, the house, even though I know that things are getting bad again, I’m [00:59:00] I can’t stay cooped up. [00:59:02] Brett: All right. Well, good luck. [00:59:04] Christina: Thank you. So that’s all, all that is, is preface to say there will probably be some pop culture, um, talk next week because I will. [00:59:12] Brett: guaranteed. [00:59:14] Christina: Yeah, it seems like it. [00:59:16] Brett: All right. Do you want me to invite Erin back? I bet she’d love to come [00:59:19] Christina: You’d totally bring her back and we can talk all the, all up. I’ll pop punk stuff. [00:59:24] Brett: We had to talk about metal too, but you don’t like metal [00:59:27] Christina: I I’m not into metal, but I would love to listen to the two of you. Talk about that all. I mean, I genuinely know Jack shit about metal, uh, except that guy dated freshman year of college was really into Ramstein. Um, [00:59:40] Brett: that’s industrial. [00:59:42] Christina: Okay. See, so clearly. Yeah. So I was going to say, and I even knew that I even know that there’s a distinction, but yeah. [00:59:48] So, uh, like, like yeah. And industrial, I can kind of get into metal. I think you don’t have it. I think like it’s just one of those weird things where like age wise, I just like totally missed the boat on it. [00:59:58] Brett: Well, so like, yeah, no, [01:00:00] let’s have this conversation with Aaron because there is this weird thing that happened to metal in like more in my lifetime. Like, like there were only maybe four major genres of metal when I graduated from high school and now they’re easily a hundred and it’s, it’s gotten highly specific and to the point where I just can’t keep up and I kind of gave up, but anyway, oh my God. [01:00:27] Get some sleep, Christina. [01:00:29] Christina: get some sleep, Brett.