Overtired

In this OG episode of Overtired, Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra navigate through sleep habits, medication discussions, and mental health struggles. They reminisce about theatrical experiences with Magic Mike, the allure of cooking shows, and gardening adventures. Brett’s journey into movie recommendation tools and Christina’s nostalgia over MTV highlight a fun and chaotic discussion. Plus, they reflect on the legacy of computing pioneer Bill Atkinson. Tune in for a blend of tech tips, personal anecdotes, and community app brainstorming. Sponsor The latest 360-degree camera from Insta360, the Insta360 X5, launched April 22nd and shoots full 360-degree videos in incredible 8K30 resolution. To bag a free 114cm invisible selfie stick worth US$24.99 with your Insta360 X5 standard package purchase, head to store.insta360.com and use the promo code overtired. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Catching Up 00:18 Sleep Struggles and Medication 02:35 Mental Health Corner 03:15 Cleaning and Organization Challenges 08:05 Selling on Facebook Marketplace 14:05 Job Hunt and Unemployment Fears 21:54 Sponsor: Insta360 23:22 Rhubarb Salsa and Cooking Adventures 29:38 Magic Mike Trilogy Discussion 35:55 Audience Participation and Movie Experiences 44:22 Marvel Movie Experience in Stockholm 45:05 Disappointment with Endgame 45:28 Star Wars Prequels Hype and Letdown 47:52 Batman vs Superman Premiere 49:14 Francis Ford Coppola’s Megalopolis 54:08 Movie Recommendation Apps 01:01:31 Privacy Concerns with Media Consumption 01:05:38 Bill Atkinson’s Legacy 01:08:38 MTV’s Headbanger’s Ball and Beavis and Butthead 01:11:19 Typo Negative and Music Reactions 01:14:29 Letterboxd API and Movie Recommendations 01:19:12 Gratitude for MacUpdater Show Links Fermented rhubarb salsa Magic Mike Letterboxd Recommendations Model (GitHub) Brett Soundtrack Bill Atkinson Mac Demo Headbangers Ball supercut I put my bed frame up for free on Facebook Marketplace The Charismatic voice reaction video to Type O Negative Flotato MacUdater Join the Conversation Merch! Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Magic Mike Food Pr0n Introduction and Catching Up [00:00:00] Christina: Welcome back. You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren, joined as always by Brett Terpstra. Jeff Severns. Guntzel could not be with us today. Uh, we miss you, Jeff. Hope you’re having fun with the family. Um, so it’s a, it’s just a classic OG Overtired for once. Brett: Yeah. Are you tired? Sleep Struggles and Medication Christina: Um, I was a little bit, so I went to bed. So we are recording this right now at 11:00 AM um, uh, Pacific. Um, so a little bit later than we usually record, but I went to bed around 4:00 AM Pacific. So I woke up originally I did actually set an alarm. We were going to record at 10 and I set an alarm for nine 30 and I woke up and I sat, I hit snooze and I was about to text you and be like, I could really use another 30 minutes. And you had texted me literally that second, asking for like 30 minutes or an hour, and I was like, perfect. And then I think I slept maybe 20 more minutes. Um, and then, and then I woke up and um, and, and Brett: So yeah, you’re tired. Christina: Yeah, I mean, Brett: be tired. Christina: well, I should be, but I got like, you know, uh, six, six [00:01:00] hours or so, so that’s, that’s pretty good. Brett: I got nine hours of sleep last night and I’m still dragging, but I think it’s because for like two weeks now I’ve gotten six hours of sleep every night and that kinda racks up over time. And then the night that you do sleep well, then all the sleep deprivation like hits you the next day. I could barely get out of bed this morning. Christina: No, totally, totally. Um, yeah, I have, I, I don’t know if it’s because of like medication switch or what, like, and it’s a weird thing because I, I, the amount of dray I’m taking right now, I feel like is probably the right amount, but I don’t know if I need to like, but this is what the hard thing is. Like I’m, I’m taking 15 milligrams. I probably need to maybe take it like. Twice a day, um, like in terms of like maybe half, one, half the day, but half the other, I, I, I don’t know. But, but the 15 milligram will last me the whole day. The problem is it’ll also like, basically last me the whole night too. And so I am, [00:02:00] I’m at like, Brett: I thought, I thought that’s what you, I thought it had a shorter half life, Christina: I don’t know, it may be something in my biochemistry has changed, so, which is possible because like technically I could be taking 15 twice a day, but if I did that, I would not be sleeping. I might be more productive, but I wouldn’t, I, and actually I’m not even sure if I would be, but, but I would not be sleeping. So I’m, I’m kind of at like the weird place where I’m getting, you know, five or six hours a night, like pretty consistently. So, um, but yeah. And, and it’s, it, I, I need something to help me sleep, but it, Mental Health Corner Brett: I feel like this segues nicely into a mental health corner. Christina: I was gonna say, we were, we immediately went into mental health corner without even doing any chitchat. So. Brett: that’s why, that’s how Mental Health Corner became the first, first thing on the show is we just always naturally, we’re like, so here’s what’s wrong with me Christina: what’s wrong with me this week. This, this, this is the, it was like Doctor Corner, and then we, like colloquial called it like mental health corner and then it became a thing. [00:03:00] Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. We’ve been doing this show for so long now. I mean, like intermittently, but, but, but we’ve been doing it for so long that like, yeah, this is how this happened. Um, do you wanna go first? Do you want me to just finish mine? ’cause I don’t have a lot. Brett: Oh, go for it. Yeah. Christina: O Okay. So yeah. Cleaning and Organization Challenges Christina: Um, I haven’t been sleeping super well, but I ha it hasn’t been bad either. I just need to kind of figure stuff out. I’ve been trying to clean my office that has actually, like, that’s a massive like, mental health stressor because I have a bunch of boxes and stuff that I need to go through and I need to whatnot and, and we have like a storage unit and, and I’m, we can put stuff in. My problem with that is, is that I’m like, okay, if I put this in the storage unit, I’m never gonna see it again. And there is some stuff in here I would like to potentially use, but. Brett: are you currently in the same room you usually podcast from? Christina: Yes. Brett: Because from where I’m sitting, you’re, you’re sitting in an empty white room like John Oliver during the pandemic, so I would say you’re making progress on Christina: Oh [00:04:00] yeah, totally. Yeah. Well, without a doubt, I got rid of my shoe rack and, and put shoes that I will be using, like in kind of like a, an area and then put some that are in boxes that I haven’t worn that I might sell, that I might do, you know, potentially to go into storage. And then I, I threw a bunch out, but like, there’s a whole half of the room that you can’t see that is just like boxes and stuff that I need to go through. And, and the easiest thing to do would be to just like pack it all up and put it in storage. But if I do that, I know I’m not gonna go through it. And so it’s just, I don’t know, it’s, it’s a really stressful thing of being like, okay, how do I get enough time to like, basically have to kind of sift through and go through every single thing I have, be like, you know, keep storage, whatnot. Um. Brett: Do you have, do you have enough room to temper? Oh, you must. ’cause it was there to begin with. So I’ll tell you what I do and you can take it or leave it, but I like to put everything that I’m not currently using, everything that I don’t have an immediate use for into a big pile of boxes. Christina: Right? Brett: And [00:05:00] then over the next month, if I do need something, I go dig it out of the box and it becomes like a stay thing. If I, if there’s anything left in that box at the end of the month, I move it into a longer term storage. And basically anything I don’t use in a year, I give away or sell if possible. But like, just like putting it all in storage and then pulling out what you actually like because you can’t make that decision in the moment. Christina: no, but the problem is, and and you’re right, that is the right thing to do. The problem is, I don’t know exactly what I have. And so if I just put it in storage, then it, it, then that doesn’t solve anything. And then like, the problem is, is that there are things, I know I have, I don’t know where they are. I might rebuy them. Like that’s the problem. So, so you’re right, like the way that you’re talking about approaching things is correct, but like, I don’t know what all I have. Brett: I do have that problem of like forgetting that I already own something and buying it again because I can’t keep track. Christina: right. Well, I mean, I ran into that. I couldn’t [00:06:00] find a certain cable for something, and so I spent $70 on a freaking AC adapter for a thunderbolt dock. And then, and this is like the shittiest thing, I found the newer version of the Thunderbolt dock. Brett: UN unboxed, Christina: UN uh, Brett: I mean no. Still boxed. Christina: Still box. Yeah. Completely unopened. So like. So I’m like, okay, well then why the fuck did I just spend $70 on the safety? Alright, whatever. But like, uh, you know, but there’s shit like that, right? Like, I couldn’t find a certain, a c cable for my camera that I needed to plug in, so I bought another one, and then I literally found that when I was going through, so I was a motherfucker, right? So there’s, there’s stuff like that that I just, it’s gonna take me, it’s just gonna take forever to go through and, and that’s just emotionally really taxing to even think about. And so, um, and then if I have to like, use my office for, for work related things, like, then that is another complication. Like, how the hell do I, like, find the time and the space, like do this and still have like a, a cleanish working [00:07:00] environment. So it, it, it is what it is. But, um, but other, other than my hoarding and, and you know, like organizational and executive function, uh, deficits, um, I’m doing pretty well. Brett: All right. Um, yeah, I would say, uh, that leads me to a whole conversation about Facebook marketplace. But, um, l is currently applying for additional part-time jobs and, um, does not have the emotional. Capacity right now to deal with that and like working around the house and working in the garden and organizing a room. And yeah, I get that there are limits to like, everything takes emotional energy. Like whether you realize it or not, you’re investing emotion into everything. And things like cleaning are intense. Christina: they are. Brett: Like even [00:08:00] just, even just like straightening up the house is an emotional journey for both EL and me. Selling on Facebook Marketplace Brett: Um, but so are, do you sell stuff on Facebook Marketplace? Christina: but I should, um, because, um. I mean, I think that would probably be better than than eBay or other places. Brett: Yeah, I’m not sure, uh, ’cause I haven’t, Facebook marketplace has always just been so convenient to get into that. I haven’t, I haven’t sold anything on eBay in a decade. Um, but so Facebook marketplace, if, if you’re post gets no traction in the first week, it expires your listing. So I have stuff like, I have this pep link. Router that you can plug in two different cable modem or at two, any two ethernet sources, um, from different ISPs into one router. And it does load balancing between the two ISPs, which is [00:09:00] if you’re running a business and you want a hundred percent uptime, you get two different ISPs and you plug it into this and it’s for people who need it. It’s a perfect solution and I, it is not the kind of thing that Facebook marketplace excels at selling. Um, uh, since I lost my job, I have been doing a better job of, of putting my huge pile of leftover shit on to, uh, Facebook marketplace for sale and. So like I, I put up a pair of echo dots, like current generation, uh, unopened, uh, for $40 for the pair and they retail it, I think 30 bucks a piece. Uh, so it wasn’t a huge deal, but Christina: It’s a good one. Brett: yeah. So it you 20 bucks and those did not sell as a pair. People picked them up individually. I sold them 20 bucks a piece [00:10:00] and those sold in like a day. But I have an echo show Christina: Mm-hmm. Brett: also unopened that I got during a prime day when I was feeling impulsive. And it has, it gets no interest. I marked it to like half, half of retail value, completely on open brand new current version. And I cannot get even a single person interested in it. Christina: Yeah. Brett: have a. I have a bike. Uh, Al has a bike that we’re trying to sell and its tires need to be replaced. Like they won’t inflate anymore, but we don’t have a bike rack that can get it to the bike shop. Um, and I’m, I’m gonna have to actually buy the tools to replace a tire on my own. ’cause I haven’t owned any of those since I used to raise mountain bikes. So nobody will buy it without being able to ride it, even though it’s, it’s a $750 bike [00:11:00] that we’re offering for $250 barely used. And still people are like, well, I really need to see what it feels like. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. There’s, there’s, there’s, I mean, the thing is, I mean, it’s convenient and, and I, I’ve never bought anything off a Facebook marketplace, I don’t think, but I know people who have and, and, um, and I, that’s probably what I’ll use to try to sell some of my stuff, assuming, you know, um, uh, it’ll be the sort of stuff people will want. Um, just because eBay’s such a fucking pain and, and they take so much of, and I don’t even care about how much they take, like, at, at a certain point, but it’s just like, if it’s such a pain, then, then it’s gonna be like more effort than it’s worth, than at that point I’m kind of like, well, then I’m just gonna fucking, you know, donate it or, or throw it away or, or give it to Goodwill or whatever. You know what I mean? Brett: And that also is an emotional expense. Like putting it up for sale is an expense dealing with people who wanna buy it. It’s like when you have a garage sale and people try to haggle on something that does have some sentimental value to you, or like you value it in a way that they don’t. And you have to like, [00:12:00] um, uh, concede to their, their preferences in order to make the sale. And again, it’s all emotional energy. Selling stuff is hard. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, and that’s why usually I don’t even fuck with it. I’m just like, fine, just get rid of it. Just take it, Brett: I, I give so much away. I like, I always, before I put anything up for sale, I ask my friends because if a friend can use something I have and save me the emotional journey of dealing with buyers and actually transactions and all of that, and they’ll just take it, that actually gives me like an emotional surplus. Like I feel like I’ve done a good thing. I’ve helped somebody out. Something I owned was helpful to somebody else. I feel good about that, that that’s, that’s, that’s good. Selling stuff is a negative though. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then, um, I, I, I, I don’t know. I mean, I’m sure that it was fake, but, but there’s, I saw this very funny, um, uh, [00:13:00] comedian bit, um, about Facebook marketplace. This reminded me of it. I’ll see if I can find a clip of it. It was, it’s like, I think she was Australian. She might have been British, uh, but she was like talking about like the most unhinged Facebook marketplace story where some, she was trying to sell like a bed and, uh, like a bed frame. Brett: Yeah, I’ve seen Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Brett: who it was, Christina: Yeah. It, and it’s, and, um, something Brett: actually, I believe it. I think it, I think it could have been real. Christina: maybe, I mean, I, I, Brett: seemed believable. Christina: of it seemed believable until the, the end story where going into like the, the, the, the, the wrong apartment. That, that was the part that, like, that, that didn’t seem, um, that, that I was like, okay, now, now I’m not actually sure about this. Brett: all right. Well, we’re, we’re gonna find it and we’re gonna share it, but we do not, we do not take responsibility for its veracity. Christina: But it is very funny. I don’t actually care if it’s true or not. It, it’s funny enough, and the song is, is funny enough that I’m like, this is good. Like, I don’t, I don’t actually care. Um, all right. How, [00:14:00] how, how are you doing? How’s, how’s your mental health? Brett: All right. Well, I am. Job Hunt and Unemployment Fears Brett: My, my severance runs out this week. Um, I’m not broke by any means yet, but, uh, once my severance runs out, then I should be eligible for unemployment. But I have this major, like emotional blockade, to applying for unemployment. Like part of me is just dreading finding out I can’t get unemployment. Um, like I already have contingency plans. I know what I’m doing, um, next, but it’s still like, uh, it’s a fear of rejection Christina: Right. Brett: keeping me from doing it. Christina: And I understand that I, I would like point out like you as much as it would suck, like if it will be, you know, ’cause I don’t know how much Minnesota gives, but I, I think they, they offer a, a pretty decent Brett: be like four to 600 a week. Christina: Right. That I [00:15:00] think if you can like, frame it in your head that like, that, that is worth like, the risk of finding out if they’ve rejected it or not. Did you talk, did you, did, did you talk to a lawyer before? Um, all this and, and, and they didn’t have an answer for you? Brett: No, Christina: No. Brett: no. So Shopify said they were going with a more qualified candidate. I. And if I wanted any feedback, they were available next week, and this is last week. And I said, sure. I would, I would be interested in feedback so I can, you know, better myself for future applications. Uh, they never replied to that email. And then two days later, the job I applied for showed back up on LinkedIn, um, which leads me to have all kinds of dark thoughts about, they must have contacted Oracle. And Oracle did something to disqualify me. And like if it weren’t for that, I would’ve had the job because they had no other Christina: [00:16:00] Right. Brett: Um, so I emailed them about, I was just like, Hey, I saw this job come back up. Is it the one I’ve already been passed over for or is it something else I can apply for? And I never got a reply to that either. So I, I have fears, I have, I’m worried about what that means for my. Um, higher ability in other places, which makes me completely, um, reticent to continue with the job hunt. I’m still sending out resumes ’cause that’s easy to do. Um, don’t know if I want to go through another like four hour interview process and not get a job. And like my independent coding is going really well. And I really think, I really think, um, there’s a lot of potential for just being independent at this point. And I figured out how to have like 401k and [00:17:00] health insurance and all of this as an independent developer. And the only thing keeping me from wholeheartedly pursuing that is that it, it scares Elle and those conversations are. Difficult, they’re very emotionally charged and I get very defensive very quickly. Christina: Right, right. I mean, and, and, and I, and I can, I can see both sides of that. I can see your side obviously, and that, like you, you’re like, I think this is viable. This is going to, you know, help me. I’m, I’ll be happier, I’ll be more productive. I can potentially make more money or, or as much, you know, doing this. Um, and, but I also see their perspective, which is, you know, we need reliable income and, and, you know, and they remember potentially like what things were like before. Uh, and, and, and, and in that case, you know, it, it wasn’t always. Reliable, um, in, in some ways. And so I, I, I can see both of those perspectives. I, I feel [00:18:00] like I will, I will just give you, from what I’ve observed from my friends who’ve gone through job hunts and, and just even myself going through interview processes at places where I, I didn’t ultimately end up taking jobs. Um, unfortunately, the, the, if you’re going to go with like a, a, even smaller places at this point, like bigger places, the, the process is going to be the same process you went through, uh, at Shopify. It, it’s not going to, I mean, period. Like even if you have an in, even if it’s, feels like it’s a guarantee thing, it’s a slog. And, and I have friends who are going, who are actively seeking jobs right now, and it does become almost a full-time job to apply for other jobs, right? Like, that’s like, it becomes a, a whole thing and it’s shitty and it’s, and it’s bad. But like that’s, you know, like ideally, I think what a lot of people like try to like. You know, optimize their, their, um, either, you know, when they’re being paid for unemployment or if they have severance, you know, from another place or whatever. They try to optimize their time for that, you know, for, for interview prep and for, you know, leak coding [00:19:00] exercises depending on what they’re doing. And for, you know, outreach and, and that thing. Um, so I, I think that like the, the loop thing and, and, and then multiple rounds is unfortunately going to be, at least at bigger places, is just gonna be a reality. Smaller places might be different in terms of whether or not Oracle has blacklisted you or something. would, I would, my, my gut says that Shopify would not be able to get that information unless, until they were going to extend you an offer and, and so. Um, I don’t think that that happened in this case. If, if after the formal round, like usually they would, they would extend you a, a, a verbal offer and that’s when the background check process would start, where they would contact your former employer to verify employment and maybe to verify other things. They’re not supposed to be able to ask about anything else. Like that’s not supposed to be a thing that’s allowed. Um, and now if people know people places and they ask questions, that’s different obviously, but like. You know, that’s not supposed to be a, a thing that happens, especially if you [00:20:00] weren’t like hired for, if you weren’t like, um, you know, fired for, um, like committing a crime or something. And you know, like, and even then, I’m not even sure if that is information that they’re allowed to share, to be honest with you. Um, and so, um, but like, like if you’ve emb embezzled or something, right? Like I, I feel like if that would come up maybe on a criminal, um, uh, background check, but usually I, I don’t even know if they would be able to, if employers would be able to, like past employers would be able to share that sort of information. So I don’t know why they pulled the job and then re-listed it. It’s possible that they found out that from the, the, the candidates they got, they just didn’t find people that they wanted for whatever reason. And then they re-listed in hopes of getting different candidates set. I have no idea. Um, but I, I, I feel like the only way that, that you had, you would just, it makes you feel any better that would. Have, have them be like, oh, we blacklisted Brett would be, if they just happened to know someone who knew the details. Um, and, and [00:21:00] that Brett: the thing though. Christina: and that that Brett: only. If Christina: right and that feels Brett: people at Oracle who would say anything bad about me, Christina: Right. And so that makes me think that that’s not what happened. Brett: yeah, I wish they would just like tran be transparent and tell me what was up. Like, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna sue anybody. Um, unless they, unless they had some protected reason that they admitted to, Christina: right? Brett: um, we didn’t hire you because we found out you’re pansexual, then yeah, that’d be a problem. But I, I imagine that’s not the reason. Um, so yeah. Anyway, anyway. Can I tell you about Rhubarb’s salsa also? Christina: Yeah, absolutely. Should we, uh, should we do our sponsor read first? Brett: Should we, what time is Christina: It’s, it’s 24 minutes in. Brett: Okay? Yeah. Perfect time. Would you like to do the read? Christina: I absolutely Brett: for it. Sponsor: Insta360 Christina: Today’s episode is sponsored by Insta 360, a leader in 360 degree action [00:22:00] camera technology. Their latest 360 degree camera. Insta 360 x five, launched April 22nd, and it shoots full 360 degree videos in incredible eight K 30 frames per second resolution. Since it films in all directions at once, you don’t even need to aim the camera. Just hit record. Live in the moment and choose any angle you want in the edit with Insta three Sixty’s mobile app, it’s easy, smooth, and packed with AI tools for faster workflow. From immersive POVs to unique third person shots, X five is every camera you’ll need in one x five also includes Insta three sixty’s toughest ever lenses with drop resistance capabilities. The lenses are completely replaceable, so you can risk the shot with confidence. The X five is also waterproof with IP six, eight waterproofing to 49 feet, and the invisible dive case for seamless 360 degrees stitching to 197 feet. To bag a free a 114 centimeter invisible selfie stick worth 24 99 with your Insta 360 X five standard package [00:23:00] purchase. Head over to store dot insta three sixty.com and use the promo code Overtired available for the first 30 standard package purchases only. For more information, be sure to check out the link in our show notes. Once again, that is store dot insta three sixty.com. Use the promo code Overtired. Thanks, Insta 360 for, uh, your support of the show. Brett: Yeah. Thank you. Rhubarb Salsa and Cooking Adventures Brett: Um, okay, so rhubarb salsa, my, we, we, we got a bunch of rhubarb. We ultimately, we’re probably gonna grow our own rhubarb, but right now we get a CSA. And one of the things that we’re getting in that, do you know what A CSA is? Christina: I don’t. Brett: Um, I can’t remember what it stands for, but it’s basically you pay a farm. Or a farmer, um, a set price, and they give you a. Bundle of whatever’s in season that week and every week you get a big bag full of greens and root [00:24:00] vegetables and eggs and just like everything that a farm produces. Um, and it’s, you don’t always know what you’re gonna get, the one we’re doing right now. You can go in at the beginning of the week and, uh, there’s like a checkbox you can like, choose. Here’s what’s available. You choose what you want. One of the things we’ve been getting is rhubarb. And I love a good like rhubarb strawberry crumble. It’s one of my favorite desserts. But we needed something else to do with the rhubarb. So l made rhubarb salsa, which involves rhubarb and jalapenos and green peppers, and I’m not even sure what else. But then you ferment it for like a week and you get this kind of fizzy, spicy, sweet salsa out of it. And it, like the first bite I had of it, I like my brain just lit up. I was like, oh my God. [00:25:00] Um, the last time that happened to me was when we made, um, soy, uh, what was it? It was a, it was like a white fish, uh, sauteed in a soy sauce, like maple syrup mixture in orange juice. And then with a wasabi mayo and a mango salsa topper in corn tortillas. So it was like a taco. And the first bite I had, I was manic at the time. I had that, so I was already, like, my brain was lighting up like crazy and then I had a bite of that and it was like fucking doing cocaine. It was just. Insane. So now I’m stable and I had a bite of this salsa and immediately my brain was like, yes, this is it. So last night we had, uh, Chipotle black bean tacos with mango, with like a lime cre, and then this [00:26:00] rhubarb salsa on top of it. And oh my God, it was so good. I, I had, I would never have thought, you know what we should do with this rhubarb is make a spicy taco salsa. And it worked out so well. I was amazed. Christina: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Brett: Do you, do you do much cooking? Christina: No, no, but I, I, I, I mean, I, I, I, I aspire to maybe one day be in the place where I, no, I, I actually, I don’t know. I, no, I don’t. Um, Brett: That’s just not, that’s not you. Christina: yeah, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s not, um, but, uh, um, yeah, I, uh. It’s not me, but I, I like people who do, like, I like, it’s weird ’cause I like to like watch like cooking shows and hear about people who cook stuff, but like, I have zero interest in actually doing it myself. Um, uh, the the like, the things that I am interested in and like the time that I have to do stuff is just like, there are too many other things that I’ve [00:27:00] prioritized more, but I, but I enjoy like, watching people who are really into it, I’m like, oh, that seems, that’s really cool. Like, it’s not my thing, but like, that’s really cool for others. Brett: I love cooking shows. I have an, a subscription that I got as a birthday present to Cook’s Illustrated, which I read like it’s so fucking hustler and it’s, it’s food porn. It’s all food porn. I watch multiple, I have multiple YouTube subscriptions to chefs. And even when I am at a phase of my life where I’m a practicing vegan, I still like watching like cooking shows that deal with more of an omnivore diet. And even if I’m not going to eat the stuff, I love watching the techniques and I love watching food be transformed into dishes. Um, our corn, uh, we’re growing corn, it’s like eight inches tall now. And [00:28:00] the, the. Farmers Almanac saying is always Kneehigh by the 4th of July, and I think we might make it, um, and our squash, I right. So behind me in this room, I don’t think you could, right there, can you see that little sprout right there? Christina: Uh, a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brett: Yeah. It’s blurry, but, uh, we’re, we’re sprouting squash plants in my office. Um, that will be transplanted probably today out into the garden. Uh, I have, I, I think I’ve talked about the three sisters planting method on this show before, but, so basically you have, you have corn and then you plant beans and the beans grow up the corn, and then you plant squash. And the squash protects the roots from the sun. The big leaves of the squash plant do, so like the three, they’re, the three different plants are kind of synergistic in their growth cycle. Um, so we’re doing that [00:29:00] in a, in a. Four by six raised bed. Um, I’m pretty excited about it, just like seeing it all come together. Um, but yeah, so I’m gonna be doing a lot of cooking with, and we have so many tomato plants and I don’t really like tomatoes, but when I grow things myself, I like them better. So I’m, look, I’ve had a elsman sauteing up some cherry tomatoes that have been just good enough to like, just eat, just pop in your mouth and just eat, um, sweet and acidic at the same time. Anyway. Okay. Sorry, I went off on a, I went off on a rant. Magic Mike Trilogy Discussion Brett: I did want to talk to you about Magic Mike. Uh, you, you mentioned to me last week when I was on my kick of like, stick it and, and uh, bring it on and, um, pitch perfect and all of that. You, you mentioned Magic Mike, uh, and Step Up, all the Step Up movies, uh, and, and I was like, I hadn’t.[00:30:00] I had seen Magic Mike. I think I had seen XXL. I had never seen the last dance, so I, and we also talked about movie bundles last week. So when I went looking on iTunes, ‘cause I couldn’t find it on any of my friends’ plexes, um, I went on iTunes and there was sure enough a bundle for the Magic Bike trilogy. So I just bought it and I watched them all and the first one has a ton of heart and like I was it, not only was it just a amazing dance moves, it was like dramatic and I had an emotional response to it. XXL and the last dance were good in so far as they had great dance moves, great choreography. I. Great acting, but they didn’t have the heart for me that the first one had. Um, and [00:31:00] before the show, you were talking about how you saw, I think you were talking about XXL, Christina: Yeah. Brett: second one. You saw it in a theater with a bunch of people who were really into it. Christina: Yes. Brett: me about that. Christina: Okay. So, gosh, I guess this was a decade ago and, um, whenever it came out and I, I saw it, it wasn’t even the first week that it was out. I think it had already been out. And this is what was impressive. ’cause it did really well at the box office, you know, especially for a sequel and, and a fairly, you know, not like a super high budget thing either. Like the first movie was a big surprise hit because it was kind of like this dumb, you know, like. Like concept. And you’re like, what do you mean? Like, it’s about this guy who’s like a male stripper and, and you know, you know, doing the dancing thing. Like, what do you mean we’re doing this? And it’s like loosely based off of like Sha Tibs own experiences. And then you’re like, and it’s Steven Soderberg, and you’re like, why in the hell is Steven Soderberg making a movie like this? Right? Like, like this, this is like, you know, the Ocean’s 11 guy and like the, you know, like the out of sight guy. Like this is like a, a big time, like, [00:32:00] you know, respected like artistic director. Like what the, what the fuck is he doing? And then to your point, it’s great, it has heart. Like the, the dancing was awesome. Like, it was just like this complete surprise. Um, and then the sequel, I, I loved, I didn’t like it more than the original, but I really, really liked it. It’s, it’s essentially the same movie as Pitch Perfect Two, but I prefer it to, to pitch Perfect two. A ton. Um, and I think part of it, when I look back on it was, I was telling you this before we started recording, I saw it in New York City, like at a theater in Chelsea and like a, a Wednesday or a Thursday afternoon, like I said, it wasn’t even release week. And I went with my, my coworker, um, Heidi, and the theater was, was pretty full and it was almost all women. And everybody was like so into it, like, into it, into it. Like they were, you know, they were, we were all cheering and we were just having like the best time. And it was one of those movie experiences. Like I look back on, I’m like, man, that was really cool because you don’t expect, I dunno, I didn’t expect, especially like in New York City, like, it wasn’t even like a, a [00:33:00] suburban like kind of theater. It was like. It was just like a, a local kind of neighborhood theater, and it was just like a, an afternoon like show. It was like six o’clock. It was like, you know, we went directly after work. It wasn’t one of those things that you would expect there to be a lot of people there. Um, even back then, like now, you definitely wouldn’t expect a lot of people, um, the movie theater, but, but even back then, I was like surprised, like so many people were, were in the theater. And then the audience though, we just had like the time of our lives. Like we just with, with all the, the, you know, dance sequences and when they’re, they’re, you know, going to the, the various parties, you know, at the, um, you know, like fraternities and stuff. Like, it was just, it was freaking, it was just really, really fun. And so. Don’t know for me, like that heightened that experience so much that I was like, man, I, and I don’t even know if I’ve watched it since then to be honest with you, but I, I bought the, I also bought the iTunes bundle, um, but I was just like, man, this was a great movie. I had a great time watching this. And, and I, I had, I think, seen some of the dance sequences again. Um, but I was like, man, I just had like, [00:34:00] the time of my life. Um, the third one, it was good, it wasn’t the same, but I also didn’t see it in the theater. And at that point, you know, so much time had passed between like the second and the third one that I, I, I feel like, Brett: The third one really tried to have heart. Christina: it did and sort of where it came back for that Brett: be dramatic, and it just, it didn’t hit me the way the first one Christina: No. And that, that’s hard, right? Like you almost never do. Right. Like, I mean, in all honesty, the fact that we’re talking about, like genuinely saying that there are three Magic Mike movies and that the first one is really good and I really like the second one as well. But the third one, like none of them are bad. Brett: Hmm Christina: Is actually hysterically. Like that’s, uh, that’s, this should not be an actual conversation that we’re genuinely having where we’re like, no, you can actually watch all three of these movies. And they’re pretty good. Right? Because usually how these sorts of things would work historically would be you have one that’s really good and then you maybe have a sequel that’s okay. And then the, [00:35:00] the by, by the time you get to the end, we’re at like direct to to, to video. It’s a cash grab and it’s terrible. Right? And like, it wouldn’t even be a thing where you’d be like, yeah, it’s, it’s worth your time. And this is one where I would be like, no. I mean, it’s not gonna be the greatest thing you’ll ever see, but it’s got some hard, and it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a solid ending. You know, they also at that point, like they were doing like the Vegas, um, show and, and things like that, right? So it, it became this franchise, which is wild again, because I remember when that movie came out in like 2011, I think it was 20 11, 20 12, and, um, like. We were a shocked that Soderberg was making this movie, and then B, you know, that it was this hit. And then C like when I look at it, I’m like, this, like launched this whole fucking franchise of other things. And you’re like, okay, you know, who would’ve thought like this movie that like, was kind of a punchline, you know, for, for like film snap types, like became like an actual franchise. Brett: right. Audience Participation and Movie Experiences Brett: So let’s talk about the difference that [00:36:00] audience, we’ll say audience participation makes. Um, so like if you were, if Kid Today and someone said, you should see Rock Rocky Horror Picture Show, and you loaded it up on Netflix or wherever it is, and you watched it in a room on your own, you’d be like, all right, it’s kind of kitschy, it’s kind of funny. Uh, I, okay, I don’t understand the, but if you see it at like a small theater with a crowd that knows all the songs and participates, holy shit, you walk out of there going, oh my God, this might be the greatest movie ever made. I saw. I saw the Blair Witch Project at a small theater in Minneapolis as a pre-release. It hadn’t come out yet. Nobody knew. Nobody knew it was fake yet. Christina: Oh man. Brett: I’m in there with a crowd of people who are, they’re movie lovers, and they’re there to see a movie [00:37:00] and the like. There was a, a woman next to me, like the scary part. She was like grabbing my knee, like without thinking about it. Just like so scared, like just freaking out. And the whole audience like audible gasps, like people, like, just like freaking out through the movie. And it changed it. Like it was like when I first saw it, I was like, oh my God, this might be like the best horror movie I’ve ever seen. And then I watched it years later alone in a room. And it was, it was okay. Christina: Yeah. But but that Brett: audience participation when you’re in a, when you’re in a theater, it’s same with going to a Star Trek movie or a Star Wars movie in the theater versus watching it at home on Netflix. Christina: No, totally. I. Brett: Or on Disney Plus, whatever. A huge difference. Christina: no. Totally, totally. And it’s, it’s interesting you say that about Blair Witch, because I remember when that came out. They ran, they ran this, I don’t know if it was on Sci-fi [00:38:00] network, it was on something they ran on cable this, and it turned out that it was like a, a, you know, a whole like campaign thing. And, and I guess they made it clear that it was promo for the movie, but we didn’t really know that then. And I remember watching it and we all thought it was like, oh, the Legend of the Blair, which I think that’s what it was called. And it was before the movie came out and we all thought it was real. And so it got people hyped for the movie. It was like, holy shit, they found this documentary footage and we all have to go see this movie. By the time I saw the movie, um, which was like a day or two later, you know, it was already out that, that the whole thing was fake. And, and I still had fun when I saw it in the theater, but it, but it was, it was lessened, right? Like, like it wasn’t, it wasn’t the same thing. Like, I remember ’cause I was, I was like 15 or 16. When that movie came out. And so I, I was like really hyped to see it. And that was like, that summer, there were just amazing movies. That’s probably one of the best movie years ever was the Blair Witch Year and, um, 1999 and like genuinely, like, [00:39:00] I think there was even a book about it, but like, that is like one of the, the best movie years ever, ever, ever. Um, and um, like you had the sixth Sense that year and you had Fight Club and you had American Beauty and you had like, there were like so Brett: like, I think it was 94, 95 for Hard Rock when like all the use your illusions and the black Metallica, black album and ac like everyone. Yeah. All within like a year. Yeah. Christina: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, like, like the 1999 movie year was like, like a goaded goad year, but, but bla witch was like this phenomenon, right? And, and I, I, that would’ve been so cool to see that, like, pre-release before any of that where like, you think that it’s real, like with people who are really into it. Because when I saw it in the theater, like people were into it, but, you know, at this point I’d already been spoiled. The internet, you know, was, was only, you know, the web was only a few years old at this point, but I’d already been spoiled, like by the internet, that it was fake from like the movie forums. Um, and like, I think that maybe regular people who were seeing it, it hadn’t quite like, passed onto them yet. Like, I don’t think it was quite like on the [00:40:00] radio yet that like, oh yeah, this Brett: Not, not terminally online people. Yeah. Christina: right. And I already was terminally online even though I was like on freaking 56 K dial up, um, because we, um, didn’t live in an area that could get cable yet. But, um, like it was, but yeah, so it wasn’t, it wasn’t the same thing, but that would’ve been so cool. And you know, you’re right, like. A a, a mediocre movie can be made infinitely better with a good theatrical experience. And a good movie can also be made like significantly better. Right? And the inverse is true too. Like a good movie can be weakened if you have a bad crowd. Like I remember seeing Castaway and which is a good movie. But that movie, there’s like a big portions of it that are silence. And for some reason there was like some like parents who had like some 2-year-old child with them in the movie who kept talking throughout the whole thing. And like, here’s the thing, I’m sort of sympathetic to parents at movies, sort of meaning this is a r rated like film that like, in my opinion, like, [00:41:00] fuck you. Like I don’t give a shit if you can’t find a babysitter. Like there are 200 other people who paid money to be there. Like I don’t actually give a shit. Like, especially opening weekend, like fuck off. Um, and they were rude about it. Like, ’cause the thing is, is like, ’cause I’ve, I’ve, you know, had to take kids to movies before and like if they’re gonna cause a disturbance, then the correct move is you walk out, like that’s what you do. Like you walk outta the theater and you calm them down. And then if you come back in, you do. And if not, that’s, that’s just the breaks. Like it’s, it’s, it’s shitty. Like parents don’t at me, but like, it’s not my responsibility that, that you like made the decisions that you made. Right? Like there, there’s a social contract in my opinion that if it’s not a, if it’s a kid movie, it’s different. But if it’s not a kid movie, like. Whatever. Anyway, this kid, like, talked and was crying and was being, you know, a kid like throughout the entire, like, large checks of the movie. And actually, I will never forget this, ’cause one of the funniest things happened at the end when like the credits come up, you know, the, the, this family’s kind of like leaving or whatever, and they, they, they waited. Like if it were me, I would’ve gotten outta that movie theater as fast as [00:42:00] humanly possible just to like, avoid anything. And they almost seemed proud, but somebody, somebody called out next time use a condom. And, uh, and it, which is still to this day, like one of the greatest, like, and everybody applauded like when that happened, like everybody literally in the theater, like applauded. And, and that still is like one of the funniest like moments I’ve ever witnessed. Next time use a condom. Brett: I don’t remember what movie it was, but I was in the theater and I was in the second section and someone in the second row from the top of the first section was texting on their phone, and it had a really bright screen and everyone, everyone was grumbling about it. And eventually I yelled something like, Jesus Christ, shut your fucking phone off. And the whole theater applauded. At least everyone behind this person was like, yes. Christina: Well, [00:43:00] I guess because that’s the thing, right? Like it’s one of those things, it’s like, you know, um, people don’t realize yeah, how bright screens are and that that will completely distract, like the experience. And it’s funny because, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m talking about how like, movies are better when you see them with people, which is true. But the inverse is also true. And this is part, this is kind of why like movie theaters are struggling, is that so many people have had bad experiences where people are texting or people are talking, or people are drunk, or people are, you know, they have their kids or Brett: and you can completely avoid that at Christina: You can at home, but, but you also miss out on those magical experiences of like, you know, 80, 90 people, you know, watching Magic Mike on a Thursday, you know, like, like, like literally like women, like, like very happy. And, and we were like in our, in our, you know, twenties, thirties, older, right? Like, there wasn’t like teenage girls, like this was like, and it wasn’t like college, college. These were like, like, you know, people who like. Left work, you know, and like come and gone to the movies, you know, at like, like five or six o’clock at bed in the afternoon, right? Like this wasn’t, you know, this sort of crowd that you would kind of expect that [00:44:00] sort of thing one, which was awesome. And, and that can make it, or, or, you know, going to like a, a midnight, you know, uh, premier of, of a big, you know, now I think it’s, it’s, it’s less of a thing just because there’ve been so many of them, but I mean, um. I will say this, I saw, um, end game, the, the final, you know, Avengers movie until they do like the re routes or whatever. I saw that in, were we in Sweden? We were in, yeah. Marvel Movie Experience in Stockholm Christina: We, we were in Stockholm and, um, my, uh, one of my colleagues, he, he, they, they got us all tickets. There were like, like 10 of us who, who were there, you know, for a work thing. And, and there were Swedish subtitles, but it was in English and like made like t-shirts for us. So we all had like, you know, kind of like Avengers or Marvel themed like shirts and like the, you know, the, it wasn’t like, um, uh, Swedish movie theaters, at least the one we went to, like are not as nice as like the big US multiplexes. But it was still a nice experience. But like everybody, like it was opening day, like had the time of their life. And I will never forget, I will never forget, like watching like the final big like Marvel movie like in another [00:45:00] country, you know, with like a whole Brett: No, that’s Christina: thing. Like, that was so cool. Brett: That’s interesting. Disappointment with Endgame Brett: So I watched Endgame at home with my partner and it was like a remote group watch with, with Elle’s sister and. I fell asleep. Like that movie to me was, it was, it was overdrawn full of too many inside references. Um, just kind of a travesty. Star Wars Prequels Hype and Letdown Brett: But to that end, do you remember the hype around the Star Wars prequels before the first one Christina: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, I, I do. ’cause I was a hater. I was a big hater. Brett: I don’t know if you are familiar with the fact that punk rockers are generally nerds and, um, when, when, so I was in Minneapolis when the first Greek will came out, and the lead singer of my [00:46:00] band, who he was. A dangerous, dangerous person who everyone was scared of. But he had a big Rebel Alliance logo on the back of his punk rock spike jacket, and he led the charge to get about 200 punk rockers to pitch in money, to rent out a whole small theater Christina: Oh my Brett: for the release of the first Christina: Of, of, of episode one. Wow. Brett: yeah, and we both know it was not good, like it was full, but when you’re in a room full of nerds who have that kind of hype built up and they’re Christina: Oh, no. You’re gonna Brett: because they want to love it Christina: right. You, no, you’re, you’re, you’re, it’s, it’s gonna be the, the crash comes the next day. The Brett: Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Christina: you go, what the fuck was this? Why was this jar, jar beings puppet there? This child actor is terrible. Like this whole thing is, and, and you know, like, for, for, for me. Brett: lot of talk in the community after Christina: Yeah. For [00:47:00] me, my, my, my big takeaway was ’cause I didn’t expect the movie to be good because I didn’t really think the prequels were that good. And I was like, deep into my, my, I’m, I’m, I’m, you know, a, a, a film snob phase. Um, and look, I was correct, the, the, the prequels were, were trash and I saw all of them. But like, it was one of those things where all my friends wanted to go. So I had to go. And then I remember like watching and I was like, why in the fuck would Natalie Portman do this to her career? Which is honestly still a question I have. Right? I’m like, you know, it didn’t, it didn’t drill anything. ’cause she’s so talented. But like, she’s literally the most talented actress, like of her generation, like, in terms of a sheer talent perspective, in my opinion. I think Natalie Portman is, is the most talented. And, and I’m like, what the fuck are you doing? You know? But like, but at the moment, I mean, I, I think I was a hater, so I don’t think that I was like that enamored with episode one, but I saw it at midnight with, you know, people and like. It’s infectious, right? Batman vs Superman Premiere Christina: Like I even saw, God, what was it I saw, I went to the, the world premiere of, um, of Batman versus Superman at, um, radio City [00:48:00] Music Hall. And like, you know, the cast is there and the whole thing. And like, and it was, you know, this and Radio City is a, a huge, huge venue, especially like if you use it as a movie theater. And even then, because of, you know, you’re with like however many, you know, hundreds of people might have been a, you know, a few thousand, I’m not sure. Um, you’re pro probably a few thousand. Um, you’re like, you’re hyped on it. You’re like, okay, all right. Zach Snyder, I’m, I’m, I’m in. And it wasn’t until like the car ride, like back that I was like starting to thinking about. I was like, well, okay, I like Jesse Eisenberg, but like. So much of this didn’t make sense. And then like, then the next day I’m like, oh yeah, no, this was, this was hot garbage. But like, at the time, you know, like they, they kind of get you, like if you’re not, if you’re not, you know, uh, thinking critically, it, it, and, and, and I look back at that experience, I’m not mad. I saw the movie in the theater, um, especially the way that I did. Um, Brett: Yeah, Christina: but Brett: to the theater is fun. It doesn’t, even if the movie’s shitty, [00:49:00] like, and often, often, if it’s really shitty and the group experience is everyone’s pissed off, it’s still fun Christina: Oh, Brett: part of a group and you’re having like, it’s like going to a soccer game where your team loses. It’s still fun. Christina: totally. Francis Ford Coppola’s Megalopolis Christina: Well, I saw, I saw for instance, Ford Coppola’s, uh, movie Megalopolis in the theater with my friend Colin, um, back in like October. And there were only a few of us in the theater, and, and we got in trouble because we talked during like, the previews and I was like, okay. Like, Brett: What, Christina: and I’m like, fuck off. Like, I, I’m gonna talk during the preview, it’s not a big deal. But we didn’t like talk, but like the movie itself. Um, and, and we didn’t get like a special guest, like during our, our, you know, screening or whatever, which, which some cities did, which is, which is fine, but like, it’s this long ass movie and it’s fucking weird as hell when the whole time I’m watching it, I’m like, I cannot wait to watch this high out of my mind because if this is this like, bizarre, like stone sober, like I can’t wait to see this in another setting. But it is one of those things where I’m gonna be honest with you, um, I don’t think, I mean, [00:50:00] look, I actually really respect the fact that Francis Ford Coppola was like, yeah, this is what I’m gonna do with my money and my legacy. I’m gonna spend a hundred million dollars plus my own money on, um, this. And it’s, it’s. It’s interesting, like I’m glad the film was made. It is not a good movie, but I’m, I’m glad that films like that exist. Right? Like, I’m glad that he did what he did. Um, and, and I think it takes balls to just be like, and I also really respect the fact that like, his kids were in no way not supportive. Like they were like, it’s your money dad. Do it. Right? Because, you know, there are a lot of kids who be like, dad, that’s our future. You know, don’t, don’t, don’t spend $150 million of your money. Because the studio looked at it and they were like, this is insane. We’re not gonna pay for this. um, and, and yeah. Um, but like the, some of the acting performances were actually really good. The disappointing thing is that like. John Voight, who I’ve never seen give a good performance ever was actually good. So was Shy [00:51:00] LaBuff. So like the two most canceled people, like in the movie actually gave like the two best performances, which is, it is what it is. But like it was, it was a weird and kind of bizarre movie. And in its long as I’ll get out, but I was just like, I’m so glad I’m seeing this in a theater with like my friend and like three, like octogenarians, because those were the only like five of us who were like watching this movie. Like when it, when it came out and, and it was funny because we had a choice. We were like, we could see that. Or Joker Two and Man, did we choose correctly because Joker two I tried to watch in a hotel, like after it, you know, it was out for like two or three weeks and then it came to HBO and I fell asleep like 25 minutes into it. I was like, I can’t, I can’t with this. Like as soon as they started singing, I was like, oh, okay, so this is real, real, real fucking bad. Um. Wound up having like, literally like one of like the, the longest running number one hit songs ever. Which is funny. The, the, the Lady Gaga, uh, Bruno Morris song, which I don’t even like, but like, [00:52:00] man, man, that movie is a, was a colos. Flub. I feel like even in the theater, that would be one of those scenarios where it’d be like, no, you know what? I, I have better things to do with my, with my time. But megalopolis, no, I didn’t. And I’m like, I’m incredibly grateful that I gotta see that in the theater Brett: I never Christina: five people. Yeah. I mean, and I, I can’t necessarily recommend it. Um, certainly not sober. Brett: the way I wanna spend an evening. Although I could get, I have mushrooms. Christina: Yeah, if you have mush. Okay. Honestly, honestly, like, like under like the, like UN UN like high or, or on mushrooms or something, I could definitely see it being. Certainly interesting. ’cause the thing is, is like, it has some interesting ideas. It’s about like this idea, it kind of takes place like in this esque kind of world, and this, this kind of builder, this, this, this great guy who’s wanting to kind of like, he’s trying to like chase, I think like a former love. I don’t remember all the story, but like, there’s, it, it’s, it’s like a, it’s like a more modern, like esque like Roman empire type of situation, but yet it takes place. But like, Roman’s [00:53:00] now New York and, and, and there’s magical kinds of stuff. I don’t know. It’s, it’s a, it’s a weird fucking movie. But, um, so, but the acting, like the acting is actually good and the, and this story is, is bizarre and, and this special effect stuff is weird, but, um, but like Aubrey Plaza is in it. She’s really good. Chloe Fineman from SNL is in it. She’s really good. Um, you know, Adam Driver, who is always good, but like he’s. You know, other thing, like, it, it’s a really good cast and, and obviously everybody shows up ’cause they’re like, well it’s France, Ford Coppola, you know, even if this is a shit show, I will work with him. And, and like that’s, I would love to see like a true, like behind the scenes like documentary, like oral history of how that movie was made. ’cause it took like 30 years he’d been trying to get it made for forever and everybody was like, no. And then finally he was like, well, fuck you. I’ll just, I’ll sell my, you know, um, vineyard and I’ll just do it myself. Okay. You know what, man? Like, you gave us the Godfather and, and the conversation and like, you know, uh, like you, you, you, [00:54:00] you gave us so much cinema that like, you know, apocalypse Now, like you, you can do, you can be a fucking weirdo. Like, I’m, I’m good with that, so. Movie Recommendation Apps Brett: So speaking of recommending movies, are there any good? So when some, I’ve been watching a ton of movies lately and some nights I’m like, I wish I could find a movie like that. Had the same hit as X and not x this, but like as blank, and I have not found a decent app. For even related movie recommendations, let alone like here’s, I would love an app where I just, it gave me a list and I was like, yes, I like this. No, I don’t like this. And it came out and would give me decent recommendations. I have not found an app that gives me anything I actually wanna watch yet. Christina: I, I, I feel like there probably, I’m sure there are probably a [00:55:00] million things like that, but it’s funny you say that because that’s actually a thing that I’ve been vibe coding for me and some of my friends is like a movie and TV show recommender. And so what, what we’ve been doing is basically like, ’cause a lot of times, like we have a, a group chat that there’s like, you know, 14 or 15 of us in it. That are, you know, people are, are intermittently like active, but like people will recommend like TV shows or movies or whatever. And a lot of us have similar tastes. And so I was like, okay, well we need to have a way where we can like basically, you know, each add a recommendations and, and like say who recommended it. And, and then I, you know, I was planning around May I stuff and I was like, well put in like similar to shows and, and I will say at least so far, I mean, I don’t think it’s like a perfect thing to do what you’re doing, but like when I, you know, kind of the thing that I’ve been vibe coding has actually. Shown me like pretty decent similarity stuff right now. I think the cool thing would be like, so it’s like if I enter in like the Pit, then you might also like, you know, TV shows like, like er or you [00:56:00] know, like, um, you know, Grey’s Anatomy or, or, or whatever. Um, or, or if you like, you know, the, the, the studio you might like, um, you know, hacks or Broad City or, you know, in some other types of, of shows, you know, kind of comedy things in that, in that vein, I don’t know how deep it goes. Um, I feel like that would be the thing that would be really, really good. But, um, that’s something I’ll look into, um, if I ever get this app in a state that I, I can share it more broadly, Brett: I think what I would be interested in, and it’s entirely possible that nobody has tagged movies in this respect, but I would be interested in movies that had the same vibe, Christina: yes and Brett: subject material, but the same like vibe. Like it’s gonna make me feel Christina: Right. Brett: similar. So like I ended up watching neighbors and, and Neighbors to the. Christina: I, I love those Brett: movie. Yeah, they’re good. And [00:57:00] ultimately, like I, they’re just funny. They’re not, they, they have no like dramatic emotional impact, Christina: no, no, no. They’re, they’re just, they’re good to have on the background. Brett: and I was looking for another movie like that where it’s just stupid. Where it’s just stupid frat boy humor and, and what’s his name? What’s the main character? Uh, the actor Christina: That Seth Rogan. Brett: Seth Rogan. Yeah. Like that kind of like Seth Rogan kind of feel, maybe without Seth Brogan. Um, and that is really hard to like qu qualify. Um, and I don’t know if there’s like even a database you could access that was like, Christina: There probably are. Oh, I’m sure there are. I’m sure that like Rotten Tomatoes and, and like IMDB, which their API is, is, um, like they, they price it specifically that they don’t want people to use it. I don’t know how well people have used like the, the, the, the movie [00:58:00] database for things like that. I’m sure people have have done Brett: TMD, the movie database, actually their API is solid. Christina: is, and that’s what I’m using for my Brett: info out of it. Christina: Right. That’s, that, that’s what I’m using for, um, for my like, you know, like, uh, share a show, um, Brett: Yeah. I built TMDB into Search Link and it is so much better and more accessible than Christina: Yeah, IMDB has better data, but the, the pricing, like it is, it’s one of those things where like you have to call to basically get a price and, and have like a, a, like a Amazon like level like service agreement. Like it is not a thing. Like you could scrape it, I guess, but like, it is not like in terms of doing it from an API level, like they, they don’t want you to use it, is is, is really what it comes down to. But like, I’m sure that, that like Rotten Tomatoes and other things, like, I’m sure that they have that stuff. I just doubt that they, they wanna make it accessible. But I’m sure there are people who’ve built sentiment analysis things based on movies. Oh, you know, what would actually be the perfect thing to use for this? And I don’t know if they have an API, I’m, I’m gonna check this right now. Letterbox, [00:59:00] letterbox is the thing that would, that would be the, the best way, uh, Brett: They would have Christina: do this. Um, because. Yep. There is an API. Um, and so, uh, I don’t know exactly, um, like what, what it all, what it all, uh, has, but they, they do have, um, an API ’cause that would be the thing. Brett: a, I built a really simple movie search using letterbox API, but I’d never dug into anything close to sentiment analysis or reviews or anything like that. Christina: Yeah, because I bet that, I mean, because, because if anybody was gonna do, like, if you, if there was any place that you could trust for that, like that would be the thing, right? Where if there are users you follow or things that you like, like, ’cause that’s, that to me would be way better than like, whatever aggregate data like Rotten Tomatoes has, um, would be, you know, polling people who put something like on their list and if people liked it or didn’t like, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like that would be the thing that if you were able to plug into that, I’d be like, okay, if enough people who watch this movie also watch this one and [01:00:00] like it, then you can see that there’s correlation because usually there is, right. Like that, that was kind of how like the, the musical genome thing, um, project worked with, with things like last FM and stuff like that was that they were able to, you know, show yeah, there is a certain correlation for these things and, um, uh, not always, and, and, and you can kind of get stuck into a. A rut of just like, you know, this is kind of Spotify’s problem. A little bit of like, just like listening to everything sounds the same. But, um, at the same time, I will say my Spotify recommendations, for instance, are, uh, it, it’s, it’s embarrassing how much better they are than, than Apple musics, for example, like Apple Musics and, and I, I listen to more music on Apple Music actually. And so Apple Music should have a better way to recommend things to me. And they don’t. All they do is just recommend things that I’ve already listened to where, and they always have, but been able to, especially on recommendations like Spotify will actually introduce me to new artists, whereas Apple will not, the only way I ever introduced to anything new on Apple [01:01:00] is on their human curated playlist, where if I happen to see that they’ve added something, you know, for a new thing and I go, oh, I don’t know who this is. And I go, oh shit, this is really good. But then that didn’t come to me like I had to seek that out. And that’s human creation, right? Whereas Spotify, like Discover Weekly will give me sh like bangers and, Brett: week I find new stuff. Christina: Definitely. Right. And, and even the autoplay stuff will introduce me to like, I’ll be listening like, oh, who is this? And I’ll be like, oh, okay. I didn’t, I, I’ve heard of this artist, but I didn’t ever listen to them before, you know, and I, I like this. Right? Privacy Concerns with Media Consumption Christina: So, um, yeah, I feel like Plex, I think is like having like their, they’re always having business model problems because, you know, it’s hard to make money when essentially you are, you know, Brett: Your business is Piring. Christina: Correct. And, and you’re trying to pretend like it’s not. But it is. And like we all know that it is. And, and I, I, I’m like, in my case, a lot of times I’m like, I legally own many of these movies and TV shows, but it is more convenient to have them in the format that I have them in. Right. [01:02:00] Um, and, and then you obviously want your friends to have it, but like, I feel like this is an area where Plex, especially if they did ratings and whatnot, like could really offer up great recommendations and stuff if they were able to kind of, you know, use that kind of thing. Like they would have really good insights into that. But. Brett: would be so cool. Christina: But, but I also understand that they probably don’t wanna get too into that A, because their users would freak out and have freaked out anytime they were even like, oh, you’re watching this, you know, sharing what you’re watching with your friends. Which to be clear, I don’t really love that feature. I turned that off immediately. I was like, I don’t need people to see what I’m watching. Like, if I wanted to share, great, but I don’t want that auto on. That’s, it’s like the, it’s also like the Spotify listening thing. I’m like, Uhuh, no, no, no, no. You don’t need to know how many times I listened to this song in a row. Like, that’s, that, that’s family business, right? That’s family business. Like this is, you don’t need like my, my like, you know, weirdness does not need to be your whole thing. Um, and, and I think content that I’m watching is even more personal, right? Like, because Brett: just as a side note, [01:03:00] that’s, that’s all public for me. If you go to Brett turp.com/soundtrack, you can see what I’m listening to. But my script will, if I listen to a track repeatedly, it only shows it once, but if you hover over Christina: Oh, you can see how many Brett: uh, like 144 plays. Christina: wild. Which is, which is awesome. And again, like if you wanna share that, I, I’m like, not opposed to it, and I might even be interested in doing something like that myself. What I am opposed to is being like, okay, if I wanna like, let people service that on my own listening page, great. But I don’t want them to just be able to click on my profile any random person and be like, oh, this is what Christina’s listening to right now. Like, fuck that Uhuh. Um, but like, and, and I feel kinda the same way about like Plex. Like I might actually enjoy a, like a, a a slash now feature. Like, this is what I’m watching, this is what I’m listening to, whatever. Um, but I also turn that stuff off on steam. I’m like, no, you don’t need to see how many hours have been playing Star Valley. Brett: You know where it kills me is on, um, on [01:04:00] my fuck, what’s it called? What’s Facebook’s, uh, or meta’s? Um, goggles. Christina: Oh, the, oh, the Oculus. Brett: Oculus on my Oculus, like for a while it was sharing how much time I was spending in different apps, and I have one that I literally only use for porn. Christina: Right, right, Brett: so I was getting questions from friends who are like, Hey, what are you, what are you doing with, uh, because they were like, he’s spending a lot of time there. It must be a good app. Christina: right, right. Brett: I, I, I’m, I’m an honest guy. I Christina: you are No, Brett: what I was doing with it, but then I shut off that fucking sharing feature. Christina: Well, no, that’s the thing, right? I’m like, I’m like, I don’t need people to know like what I’m watching or what I’m listening to. You know what I mean? Because Yeah. Because sometimes yes, we are adults and like people, and I’m like, A, I don’t wanna share that. And b, like, I don’t want you to know that. Right? And, and, and I will go this far farther. I don’t wanna know what you’re doing. Right? Like, I like all power to you, but I don’t actually, when I see this, like, I don’t actually wanna know that [01:05:00] my friend was watching porn on their plex or on their oculus or, or whatever. Like, do it. I love that for you. I don’t actually want to, I don’t need to know this. Um, and, and, you know, uh, I, I’ve seen that on Steam too, where people like, I’ll see like their sex games and I’m like, cool. Awesome. Really did not need to know that. Brett: Yeah. Good for you. Good for you. Didn’t need to know about it. Christina: I didn’t need to know about your sex simulator, which is like, awesome. That’s, that’s like the happy for you. But like, no, the same way. Like, you don’t need to know that I’ve spent like 600 hours playing the sims. Like, these are just things that we don’t need to, like, unless we choose to share, we need to do. Bill Atkinson’s Legacy Christina: Um, I know, I know we’re, we’re coming up on gratitude, but I did wanna mention real briefly, this is kind of a, a sad and weird segue, but, um, bill Atkinson, uh, a computing pioneer, um, uh, died and, uh, he was the creator of Mac Paint and, um, uh, HyperCard and the whole, he was able to figure out how to make windows overlap onto one another. [01:06:00] Uh, and, and the quick draw framework, uh, you know, for the Mac, which was like a, a massive, massive thing. He created kind of like the, the modern, like, kind of like a dithering um, uh, algorithm. Brett: owe a lot to him. Christina: We owe a, a ton to him. And I, I don’t think I ever met him, but I obviously was like aware of him and like, I don’t know, like hypercar alone, like is a direct reason why like I got into computers and, and building stuff because like I went hypercar to the web and um, when I was in elementary school. And so, uh, like, you know, thoughts to his family, but what a great legacy. Brett: I should ask Sal Sago for a quote about Bill Atkinson passing. I bet, I bet. I bet that would make a good blog post, Christina: I bet it would. Brett: with Al Sago about Bill Atkinson. Christina: Totally, totally. Um, Andy Hertzfeld, um, folklore.org, which is basically just in a, kind of a hibernated state now, but, but it’s, it’s still like [01:07:00] archived. Um, which has like all the stories about the development of the original Macintosh. Um, there are, are a ton of, of, of, um, you know, bill Atkinson stories, um, in there. Um, and I was watching this video, um, I’ll, I’ll put it in the show notes, um, uh, yesterday, uh, that somebody edited together, like some of the first demos, um, from the first Mac and, and like seeing like, uh, bill show off Mac paint, um, to people and like hearing the applause. Um, I mean, it, it was such a fucking good demo and, and it’s just so Brett: a link to that, add that to the show Christina: Yeah, I’m going to, yeah, I’m going to. Um, because it, it was so cool to see and, and it was also wild, just like looking back and like seeing how young all those guys were and, and, and, and the one female member of the, of the deaf team, um, uh, were when they, you know, when, when the Mac, um, came out and, um, just freaking like unbelievable talents level. But, but, but, but he, uh, [01:08:00] um, his, his demo of his of Mac pain is so good and everybody’s applauding and, and then, um, he passes it off to the guy who did McElroy, right? And, and that guy like takes a second to say, um, you know, uh, you know, Mac pain is great, but like without quick draw or whatever Bill’s, quick draw, like, none of us would actually be up here. None of this would be possible. And, and it was just such a really nice like, um, like pure kind of moment of like this guy’s friend being like, no, like I’m, I’m excited to show up, but I’m showing off, but. You know, like props to my friend Bill. It was really, really nice. Um, MTV’s Headbanger’s Ball and Beavis and Butthead Brett: of super cuts, and we don’t have to talk about this at all, but I will put it in the show notes. There was someone put together a. Complete playlist of every video ever shown on MTV’s head, banger’s ball. Christina: my gosh. Brett: Yeah, it is quite the trip down memory lane. Um, [01:09:00] it was kind of fascinating, but I, uh, I, I know that’s not for everybody, but for, for me, I grew up on Christina: Yeah, Brett: Headbanger’s ball, on my pirated, my pirated cable running into the secret TV I had in the closet in my bedroom. Christina: That’s wild. I, I mean, I remember head bangers ball. I was much more of like a, I guess 120 minutes person. Um, if I had to pick. And even then I was late 120 minutes. ’cause I was, I was too, I was a little bit too young for all of that. But like, I, I remember like the mythos of that and That’s awesome. That’s so cool that they did that. ’cause like that’s ’cause that was like an institution and, um, I, I spent Brett: like the crossover between Headbanger’s Ball and Beavis and Butthead was Christina: Well, and that’s what I watched. I loved, I loved, loved, loved Beavis and Butthead and I was much older when I realized kind of like what they were kind of like making fun of and whatnot, the music videos. But like, I just, I liked the little sketches, like the music video commentary was funny, but like, a lot of it was for stuff that I had no idea what it was or anything. And I [01:10:00] just, I just, I loved bes and butthead. I thought it was just the funniest sh uh, stuff. And I was like in third, third and fourth grade and I just really loved it. But I spent like, my childhood and, and like adolescence frankly as well. Like, and, and then into college. Like I just. It, it was MTV and, and VH one. Like, it was like those two networks. Well, and then the e network too. And the E network started up and started getting bigger. It was like, you know, those three things, but like, but, but especially like MTV and VH one, like, I would just like watch, like basically on like a running thing. Like I was, I was thinking about this the other day because. Um, uh, Chapon did a, a cover of Hearts Barracuda, and it’s good. Like, it was really good. Um, she, she killed it, but it made me like, wanna go back and like, watch original heart stuff. And then I was like, okay, how did I get into heart? Because they were not a band really, by the time I was aware of music, like they would already kind of reached their peak and were gone. And I was like, oh yeah, the, the VH one behind the music. And fortunately, like three months ago, ’cause a lot of these things get taken down very quickly. Somebody did [01:11:00] upload the, the entire like 45 minute, like, behind the Music of Heart and like, and I was like, man, yeah. ’cause they, they were like, you know, they were like Fleetwood Mac, like they, their dramas like Fleet Fleetwood Mac, but like with sisters, which honestly makes it even messier, right? Like the whole thing, right. And, and, uh, so, um, yeah. Typo Negative and Music Reactions Brett: Have you, have you ever heard Typo Negative? Are you familiar with typo? Christina: I am. Brett: Um, there’s, I can’t remember her name, but there’s an opera singer who does like reaction videos, um, to. Like any kind of, any kind of musician she’ll, she’ll do like a reaction and analysis of the voice and the intonation and then even get into like the lyrical impact and things like that. And she did. I. She’s just like, she’s this peppy person who had never heard of Typo negative, but one of her viewers asked her to do a typo negative reaction. Um, [01:12:00] and it was very charming watching her first reaction to, and this was like during typo, negatives, like vampire phase when they were really into like the, just the kind of the vampire mythos. And she was like, oh, I get this. It’s like deep voice. He is got this deep, deep voice and he’s like seven feet tall. And he is, he’s playing a double bass, like it’s an electric base, like holding it up. And, and she like listening to her analyze it. She was really into it. So as a result, I was like, oh, I gotta go back and listen to Typo negative more. And I learned in the process that there was this album called Origin of the Feces that. Was supposed to be a live album. And I learned in my kind of deep dive into Typo Negative that it was not at all a live album. It was a studio recording [01:13:00] in into which they interjected crowd noises and glasses clinking, and people booing and like, made it sound like a really poor live performance that that made you feel bad for the fucking band. But it was all very intentional. Um, anyway, like that there, there’s a, like that guy had some lyrics, especially I think his previous band was a lot less PC and they really pushed the limits of like fascist Nazi kind of lyrics. He was like a New York Jew. Who, I don’t, I don’t even know where it all came from, but I think he was just trying to push people’s Christina: Mm-hmm. Brett: there’s some questionable stuff that Typo negative and Peter Steele did. Um, so I’m not gonna be like, oh my God, I’m so into these guys. But that [01:14:00] some of the sounds on, especially on their later albums when they went a little more like pop metal, when it was like super melodic and heavy at the same time, they kinda led, they, they invented goth metal. Like that didn’t exist before. Typo negatives. So I mean, you gotta give ’em some props. Christina: Um, yeah, for sure. No, you definitely need to give them props and, and I that, um, I, I’d like to see that reaction video. That sounds good. Um, Brett: I’ll see if I can find that. Christina: I put it in the show notes. Letterboxd API and Movie Recommendations Christina: One thing just to circle back when you’re talking about movie recommendations thing, I happen to search GitHub to see, ’cause letterbox does have an API, but apparently it’s sort of private. But I came upon this project that, that Sam Lerner, um, created, um, a, a few years ago, but, but it looks like he’s still, um, updating that is called Letterbox Recommendations. And he basically scrapes publicly accessible letterbox data and creates a movie recommendations model with it that can generate recommendations when provided with a letterbox username. So the whole concept is, is if you’ve rated a lot of movies on letterboxed, you can give it your [01:15:00] username and it can then give you recommendations based on your ratings compared to others. Brett: cool. Christina: So that’s, that seems like that that’s exactly what we were kind of talking about. Um, Brett: I, I would have to actually go in and rate some movies, but yeah. Christina: for sure. Brett: what I’m talking Christina: Yeah, exactly. And you might even be able to do something otherwise. And then he and I, I, I put in our show notes, I put like the link to the front facing, um, thing that you can do, but it also has like, um, a GitHub project because he has it, you can run it on your own. Um, and then he also, um, has a, a, a kagel dataset that’s up to date with, with his latest, um, crawl. So you can crawl your yourself if you wanna do things and whatnot. So you might even be able to, like, you could probably modify it based on some of those parameters where you could even be, there’d be a way to modify this where you could be like, enter in a movie and get recommended movies based on other things. Right. Like, there’d be a way to probably accomplish the Brett: I’ll play with Christina: doing. So, Brett: like a fun thing to do while I’m unemployed. Christina: yeah. I mean, look, that, that could, that, that could be [01:16:00] whatnot. And, and it’s interesting ’cause I’m now like looking through just like, um. Uh, oh, and this is cool too. Somebody has created a way to connect, um, your letterbox list to a radar, which is like the, the front end for Usenet to, to download content, um, for your plex. Um, I’m, I’m running, I’m seeing all kinds of, um, uh, information and here just, you know, searching letterbox on, um, on, on GitHub. So that’s, uh, that’s pretty Brett: All right, cool. Should we do our gratitude? Christina: We should, we should, uh, do you, do you have, um, do you have one? ’cause I’ve, I’ve got a, okay. Go Brett: do. So I’m I, and I can’t. I’ve lost track of what we’ve already talked about, but my pick this week is Flo Todo. Um, there are multiple single site browser apps out there that will turn something like, you know, Facebook into its own isolated web browser that doesn’t give data to anything else and makes it so [01:17:00] that I can separate my Facebook time from any anything else? I have one for Facebook, one for LinkedIn. Um, I’m not on the machine that I actually run these. I have one for Blue Sky. It actually runs Deck Blue. Um, and so all my social media sites get their own Flo Todo web app. And I like Flo Todo because it’s super bare bones and super lightweight and the apps it makes are just wrappers. That, that are basically little sandbox wrappers that take up about a megabyte and they load instantly. And they don’t, they don’t have a lot of frills. They don’t do a good job of like, with, uh, like notifications and, and badges and things like that. Uh, if, if that’s what you want, you, you wanna go with something more like Unity or Coherence X, um, Christina: Or, or, or, or, or you wanna [01:18:00] use, um, an in Chrome and Safari’s gotten better with this, but I don’t, I don’t use Safari. Um, uh, but, but no, but, but, but Chrome, like, uh, you know, if, if apps can, can be installed as a progressive web app, then, then that does a lot of similar things. Not, not to the way that it will do, like what this does where it’ll isolate your data. But, but it’ll, but if you, you want notifications in like a separate Brett: if you, if you just want to separate out that kind of browsing. Yeah. Um. So single site browsers are awesome. Flo todo is lightweight, fast, and, uh, for what I need it to do, it is the easiest. Like it creates web, like if you punch in a URL and hit save instantly, you’ve got your, you’ve got your SSB. Um, so I’m, I’m, I’m a fan. I can’t remember if I paid for it. I think I paid for it. It was like a one time, Christina: Yeah, it looks like it. Yeah, it looks like they have like a, a basic, um, uh, version, and then there’s like a pro version that that’s, that’s 20 bucks. [01:19:00] Um, I will note, actually, and this is kind of a sad, I guess, uh, uh, update, but, um, I, uh, I might have mentioned this, um, I, one of the episodes that you weren’t on, but I’ll, I’ll mention it again just because I’m reminded of it. Gratitude for MacUpdater Christina: So, Mac Update, which is an app that we’ve talked about a lot of times, um, that developer has announced that he is going to basically be discontinuing the app, um, as of January. Yeah. I gu I guess he’s not making enough money off of it or whatever. He’s, he’s offering it for sale potentially, or licensing if people want to do it. I, I don’t, I don’t have the means to be able to actually maintain it. Um, but like, but I would be Brett: pick that up Christina: but I, Brett: I literally have that app open on my desktop right now. Christina: totally. And, and so, yeah. And so I, I want, I, I think that it’s, it’s a, such a good app. Um, I mean, look, I, I’ll put this out there on, on the show. This is a weird gratitude, but I am very, you know, I have a lot of gratitude for this app. If there are some people who would potentially wanna, like, go in with me on, like, looking at like, how much it [01:20:00] would be to buy this app, I, I mean, I would be interested in, like, I could, I could do things on, on a business side. ’cause I do feel like the price he was selling it for was probably, you know, uh, too low. And I don’t know how big the market would be for people who’d be willing to pay, you know, $30 a year or whatever for app updates. But I, but I don’t feel like it’s zero. Um, so if, if there are people who are listening to our show who might be interested in pursuing with me and like what it would cost to do this or, or if I don’t have to be involved at all, this is just something that you feel like you, you want to do, um, you should reach out to him. But, um, but I, I, I don’t know, I feel like. I feel like this is, this is the sort of app that we, we need to, you know, keep around. Brett: Yeah, I agree. It’s so useful. Christina: so useful. The only thing I can imagine is, Brett: nothing for it. Christina: yeah, but he basically does, it’s like the pricing right now is, uh, you know, it’s free to scan Only the standard edition is, is three 90 a person. The pro edition is, is, is $10, [01:21:00] $9 rather. Brett: no. I thought it was more than that. Yeah. It should definitely be more than that. Christina: And I feel like it should be a, Brett: a, that’s a $30 app and possibly a subscription Christina: no, I think it’s a subscription. I think it’s a $30 a year subscription is what I think it is. I mean, maybe 50, but I think 30 is probably the right thing. And, and that way, and the reason is because it’s not free to be able to, you know, there’s real bandwidth costs in having to ping in the like store, like the, Brett: I use that app every day. I, yeah, I, I would be interested, I would back Christina on this. I don’t necessarily wanna maintain the app, but I would pitch in on keeping it alive in whatever capacity I could. Christina: Yeah. Um, yeah, so he basically, um, you know, um, but he expects it. He just says, um, e says Mac updater three does require server support and our daily maintenance to keep working, expect support until, you know, [01:22:00] January 1st, 2026. So, ’cause he, he’s, he’s made, you know, kind of a, um, a is it, you know, take it over if your company wants to either continue Mac update or, um, or enter the app updating market, get in touch about the possibility of acquiring, you know, um, you know, whether it’s infrastructure and, you know, maintenance infrastructure or if you wanna license their tech. Um, like, I don’t know, I, I remember what happened with Brett: We could wait it out. We could wait it out and if no, like larger company steps up, I bet he would eventually give it away for free. Christina: Maybe, maybe. I mean, I wouldn’t wanna pay nothing for it. Like I, I I don’t feel like that that’s, that’s fair. Brett: No, but then it would be up to us, be like, no, we think it’s worth this. And we give him that. Christina: yeah, I just, I, I’m just saying if there are people out there who, ’cause my whole thing is like, I don’t have those, the skills to, to maintain and, and keep it like running and updated. I would have skills to potentially like come up with like a business model and um, figure that sort of stuff out. But, um, you know, [01:23:00] ’cause I, ’cause I feel like there are a lot of things there. Honestly. Maybe we should talk to the setup folks. ’cause this feels like this would be granted, you know, they want everybody to go through their store, but this could be like a complimentary. Thing, you know, for apps that aren’t in setup, right? Like, I don’t know, um, just, just spit balling out there. But yeah. Um, immense gratitude and thanks for, for MAC data, uh, for, for being a real one over the years. And, and if anybody out there is in a position to help, or if you want to potentially, you know, um, if you have the technical skills and you would potentially wanna go in on something like this, like with me, and I’m, I’m not like, and I don’t even know if I have, I don’t know what he’s charging, so I don’t even know, like if I’m in the financial position to be able to like, make a real, like run of it. Right. But, but this is one of those apps where I like look at enough, I’m like, fuck, this is actually really good Brett: we, we would look into it with you. Give us a, give us a sh give us a shout. Christina: Yep. Brett: All right. So do you have a pick Christina: Um, I think that’s actually gonna be my pick. Actually. I was gonna come up with [01:24:00] something else then I was thinking about, I was like, no, I actually think that, um, that it’s that. And then, uh, the other thing that I will, uh, call out is, is again, like the sand learner, uh, letterbox movie recommendations thing. Um, which, uh, you know, like that’s, that, uh, that GitHub project looks pretty fun, so. Brett: All right. Well, what do we, we did about an hour and a half almost. That’s fun. Just the two of us. This is, this was an OG episode. Christina: was, this was like a very classic A DHD like og Overtired pop culture heavy. Yeah. It was good stuff. Brett: we’ll, uh, we’re, we’re working on some more guests. Hopefully Jeff will be back, but. But you get what you get when you listen to Overtired. Christina: You do. So, um, we, uh, we, we miss Jeff of course, but I’m glad to still talk with you Brett, and uh, get some sleep. Brett: Get some sleep.

In this episode, Brett reunites with Christina and Jeff after a few weeks’ break. Jeff talks about boundless curiosity and Christina shares her excitement over Taylor Swift reclaiming her masters. Brett details his tiring job search post-Oracle and explores new avenues as an independent developer while updating the team on the latest features of his app ‘Marked’. The conversation covers “cheesy” movies, health insurance options, and sports fandoms. You know, the conversations of three ADHD podcasters. Sponsor The latest 360-degree camera from Insta360, the Insta360 X5, launched April 22nd and shoots full 360-degree videos in incredible 8K30 resolution. To bag a free 114cm invisible selfie stick worth US$24.99 with your Insta360 X5 standard package purchase, head to store.insta360.com and use the promo code overtired. Show Links Pitch Perfect the book Cursor / Cotypist Cheapcharts Chapters 00:00 Welcome to Overtired 00:13 Catching Up with the Hosts 00:31 Nerding Out on Acapella 00:59 Pathological Curiosity 02:09 Mushroom Talk and Edibles 03:05 Mental Health Corner 07:04 Christina’s Taylor Swift Update 15:19 Sports Fandom and Mental Health 20:43 Job Hunting Struggles 37:07 Mental Health and Hobbies 38:19 Sponsor: Insta360 41:43 In-Depth Discussion on Marked App 55:54 Movies and Entertainment 01:05:17 GrAPPtitude Join the Conversation Merch! Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Rotten Soffits Welcome to Overtired [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, you’re listening to Overtired. I am, uh, Brett Terpstra, and I am here with Christina Warren and Jeff Severance. Guntzel. You guys have been carrying on without me. Catching Up with the Hosts Brett: How’s it going? Jeff: Good. Christina: It’s good. It’s good to, I’ll be back again. It’s been a few weeks. How? Brett: your, I enjoyed your last episode without me. It was fun to edit. Christina: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, uh, yeah, that was where we’re talking to over one another. We’re out of practice. No, that was great. It, it was great. Great, great. Nerding Out on Acapella Christina: With our friend Brian. They, they are a delight. And, uh, uh, once again, thank you, Jeff for letting us nerd out for an inordinately Jeff: a delight. Christina: about acapella. Jeff: It was a delight. I think the podcast tag should be, what is it now? It’s like tech pop culture and acapella. Uh, but what is it? What is it now? I forget. Our tag. Brett: I think it should be Tech. Taylor Swift and Jeff is a really good sport about whatever topic comes up. Jeff: No, I’m not a good sport. I, as I Brett: are a Pathological Curiosity Jeff: [00:01:00] as I said to my son, when he was annoyed with something, I was pointing out, I said, you have to understand fucking everything is interesting to Brett: Yeah, that’s what I, that’s what I’m Christina: was, I was gonna say, Brett: Like Jeff, Jeff has a curiosity about literally anything that other people are interested in. Christina: pathologic. Oh, that’s good. Pathological curiosity. I love that. No, ’cause you do. I, I, I, I, I I love that about you. I mean, I, I’m also like very curious, but you’re even more so than me. Like I will go down a rabbit hole on almost anything with anyone, even if it’s something that I’m not that into. But you are like beyond me. Like, ’cause there are some topics where I’m just like, I will just, my eyes will just glaze over. Jeff: yeah, yeah, yeah. Christina: you do that. Jeff: Well. Brett: know, you know, my eyes glaze over Christina: Oh, I know. Yeah. No, look, I, I, I, I was, I, I was not even, I was not even bringing you into this. No. Trust me, I, we, so we, we record this with, with video and, um, or we can see one another. We don’t record the video. I, I can see Brett’s face and it’s, it’s those moments where I’m like, do I Jeff: you can see [00:02:00] Brett Glaze. Christina: You can. And then there are moments I’m like, do I care or do I wanna finish my rant? And a lot of the times I’m just like, no, I’m gonna finish what I say ’cause he’s not listening. And it’s fine. Mushroom Talk and Edibles Brett: Um, so Jeff has a hard out in a little over an hour, which I think we could do. I just took a ceremonial amount of mushrooms, so we’ll see. How interesting. I’m just kidding. I didn’t, I Christina: fuck. Bummer. Brett: I was gonna, no, I only, I have literally like a 16th of mushrooms left and I’m saving it for a rainy day, Christina: Got it. Got it. Yeah. Fair enough. I mean, I, I just thought it was gonna be fun. I was like, damn, I’ll go take an edible. Like, we can just have like, we, we, we can Brett: and we’ll just see who kicks in first. Christina: whose kicks in first. Absolutely. Jeff: What topic are we on when it kicks in? Christina: Right, right. It’s, it’s like, it’s like it for me. You’ll know. I’ll just like, I’ll just either get Yeah. I get, I get quieter, honestly. I’ll just be like, cool. Jeff: yeah, [00:03:00] yeah. Right, right, right. Brett: All right, Jeff: like a SMR. Christina: Mm-hmm. Mental Health Corner Brett: so let’s catch up on mental health. I would love to hear about you guys first. Jeff: Oh, I can go Christina: Okay. Jeff: but it’s gonna be improvisational. Brett: Yeah. This isn’t youth group. You can share Christina: Sh. Brett: you Jeff: Wait, what does that mean? It’s not youth group, Brett: it. We used to have to like go around and Yeah. Testimonials and stuff and like you’d go around the room and everyone would have to share like who they witnessed to this week and all that shit. And, and I realized I really, yeah, a hundred percent. And I really can’t Jeff: wait, wait, wait, wait. At this moment Brett is maybe accidentally raising his hand Brett: Hallelujah. Hallelujah. But, uh, I can’t believe I missed the opportunity in high school to name my band, youth group Jeff: Oh, that’s a good Brett: so that everyone could tell their parents, oh, I’m going to youth group tonight, and they could come see [00:04:00] our Christina: And instead it goes to your show. That would’ve been so, yeah. Brett: about me real fast. Jeff: I like that a lot. Um, me, uh, I, you know, it’s, it’s funny, if it were a few days ago, I would’ve had a, a, a lot to say, but then I had therapy, um, and so, and that, that helped calm a lot of things down. Um, Christina: mental health corner. Jeff: yeah, actual mental health corner. I also just went through a phase where, so I have like, um, I mean, I think I’ve talked about this before, but I have nightmares pretty bad and, and, and I’ve managed to like. Make them quite infrequent through therapy, initially through medication, but then stopped that and through therapy, which has been amazing. Um, but I just had, I had one of those weeks where like. If I watch something, um, it becomes, uh, in my dream something like 40 times more terrible. Like if I watch something kind of terrible, uh, or just stressful. So like I accidentally on TikTok, uh, got a, a really [00:05:00] terrible nine 11 TikTok, just like a little VHS scene that someone had had recorded and that became this crazy ass dream. And then we we’re watching Bad Sisters again. I dunno if you watched that show, but it’s so stressful and awesome. And so every time I used to watch Bad Sisters in Season One, I had nightmares, but I was like, I don’t care. I love the show. Anyway. Um, no, but I’m, I’m doing good today. Um, I’ve had the place myself for the weekend and my kids are here, but my, um, my wife is outta town, so I’ve just been kind of like roaming around the house and I’m now like doing actual, uh, like garage repair work. I’m like, uh, I will not go into this, but I’m replacing rotten soffits and, and fascia and it’s really exciting because it’s the kind of thing I’ve never done and anytime I’m doing something I’ve never done, I find it kind of thrilling. And then when it actually works, I find that I don’t hate myself. And that’s, that’s awesome. That’s like a good way to come to not hating yourself. Christina: Yeah. Jeff: So, yeah, [00:06:00] I’m, I’m good. Rotten wood. I had to clear out a squirrel nest today that I was pretty sure had dead babies in it. ’cause I had a squirrel war and I had to close off the, the soffit from this squirrel I was fighting with that would yell at me in my workshop. And I was extra sure that I made extra sure that there weren’t babies in there before I shut it off. But man, a couple weeks later, it sure didn’t smell good in that corner. And so I, today, I like finally had the courage when I was ripping off the soffit and, and everything else to like, clear it out. But I found a way to do it so that I didn’t have to see, I didn’t have to see there was a massacre. I can’t handle it. One animal dies in my garage every winter and, and they all, they all are like framed, uh, in the, in the palace of my mind. Christina: Yeah. Uh, okay. So Rotted Wood should also be a band name. I’m just Jeff: rotted wood. Brett: I actually, I actually already decided to title this episode, rotten Soffits. We’ll see what else happens, Jeff: That’s good. That’s good. I like it. That’s what I got. Christina: [00:07:00] okay. Uh, I’ll go next. Um, okay, so the first, the, the, Jeff: My name’s Christina Christina’s Taylor Swift Update Christina: Yeah, I’m, I’m c I’m Christina, and I’m a Scorpio and No, um, so, uh, most important thing, uh, for, for my mental health and, and I think also going back to the roots of this podcast is that, uh, Taylor Swift got her master’s back, and, uh, so this is very important Brett: her, the recording’s not her degree. Okay. Christina: no, she hast not already doctorate, so she’s already, she’s already that, but like, yeah, but she got her master’s back. And so, um, that means that like all of her, her first six original recordings, all the music videos, all the photo photographs, the concert films, the demos, everything belonged to her. And the reports are that she paid in the $350 million range. So basically what the, what the original, what they were sold to for the second time, they sold them back to her. Um, and which, which is, which is great ’cause essentially by doing the Rerecording project, she devalued them enough that they didn’t, you know, get a, a massive premium, which, which they would’ve had [00:08:00] otherwise. Jeff: was that an unintended consequence or was that part Christina: Oh no, that was the whole point. No, no. The whole point was absolutely. ’cause she’s the song. Well yeah, ’cause she’s the songwriter, so they can’t do sync rights without her permission. So even though they owned the master recordings, they wouldn’t be able to like, license them to film or television without her permission. And she was like, no. And then she got half the royalties from the streaming stuff anyway, so they were making like 30 million a year. But So was she off of just the other stuff? I still think they did her a kindness because they could have been juicing that for all they, while it was worth, they could have been putting out DVDs, they could have been putting out books, they could have been licensing the photos for merch. Like her fans would’ve revolted, she would’ve made a big deal about it. But like, let’s be honest, your aunt in hot topic is not gonna know or care if the Taylor Swift shirt is licensed by Taylor Swift herself, or if it’s licensed by like, Apollo Global, like, you know what I mean? Like, like they’re, they’re not gonna care. So, or Shamrock Holdings or whatever it was called. So.[00:09:00] The fact that Jeff: just your aunt. That’s me in hot topic. Christina: right. But what I mean is like Swifties would, would know the difference between like the official merch and like the, the the, you know, um, uh, like licensed photos that she no longer had any ownership of stuff. Like I’m, I’m just saying. So, but like they, they, they could have made a lot more money off of this is, is what my point is. And so the fact that they basically like made a hundred million dollars and, you know, ba basically sold it for even money, I think is a kindness. Um, so, so did she from her letter. But the only reason I’m mentioning this for mental health purposes is that like, finally, like I’m happy for Taylor and all, but like my national nightmare of, of having to pretend like the Taylors versions, like we’re anywhere near as good as the originals is over. And I never Jeff: the music you love and came to love of hers back in your life. Christina: well, okay, look, Jeff: I mean, you had it. I know you had it in Christina: Yeah. Well, no, no, but here, here’s the thing. I’m a huge Taylor fan and like I, I’m like a Taylor shooter as they would say, obviously. Um, there’s no way in hell [00:10:00] that you could pay me enough money to listen to like Style Taylor’s version over the original ’cause it was ruined. It, the, the, the, the new guitar bit, like, the whole thing was, it was just fucking ruined. And I paid for those albums. They were in my iTunes library. I also had physical copies. Fuck you. If you think I’m gonna stream like the, the non misogynistic version of better Than Revenge. No, I’m gonna be like listening to the slut shaming version. That’s it. But the thing is, is that I had to pretend in like plight company, like. You know, like I, I, I, it, it was one of those things like when I would tell people, oh yeah, I still listen to the old versions when I want to. And people were like, oh my God, you monster. And I’m like, okay, now I don’t have to pretend anymore. And, and, and, but more importantly, ’cause I never really pretended that much. Like I think on this podcast I was even pretty off open. I was like, oh, I think the rerecording are interesting and some of the vocals sound better, but it’s obviously, it’s a different vibe and, and whatever. But some of them, I was just flat out why I was like, this is worse. But the big thing is, is that like, they would only play like the Taylor’s versions, like on like radio and on like playlists and stuff. And that’s annoying [00:11:00] because they’re, they’re just, to your point, they’re not the ones you grew up with. Like, it’s, it’s not the the thing. And so, Jeff: fan and, ’cause I know that some of those differences are obviously so subtle and some are so glaring, but like if you’re a fan, the subtle is not subtle. Christina: No, and the thing is, I think for like, people who came in and became like fans of hers, like during the ERAS tour, and there were a lot of people that got into her that way. Fair enough. You are not gonna really notice or care, but like, if you’ve been spinning like more than half your life, listening to someone like, come on. Um, or, or close to half your life, whatever the, the, the math breakdown is like, you, you know, those songs and like, you know, every intonation. So I’m just glad that, like, for my mental health, that like my personal nightmare of having to ever worry about hearing style Taylor’s version on like a Spotify playlist or in a store somewhere is hopefully gone because there’s, there’s no reason that we, that anyone should ever subject themselves to that the vault tracks different, right? Like, that was like a gift and that was great. And like, I’m glad we got all two L [00:12:00] 10 and like she said, she’s not gonna re-record reputation, which think fuck, she would’ve ruined it. Um, and, uh, but, but we will get the vault tracks, which will be great. And, and she did apparently rerecord the debut album. I would be interested in hearing how that sounds, you know, versus 16 versus like, you know, almost 36, but. When, whenever that happens, that that’ll be a fun thing to listen to. It’ll be a fun deluxe edition to, for me to give her more money for. But like, I don’t, I I, I don’t need to have it like in like on the Delta playlist, which they still have. Like if this was a movie Taylor’s version on their playlist, and like, honestly that was a pretty good re re-record, but it’s still just a jarring thing where I’m like, this voice is, this voice is more mature Jeff: Yeah, Christina: you know, 2009 or 2010. So anyway. Brett: So Trump’s Trump said that Jeff: Wait. Whoa, whoa. Christina: Yeah, he said that she was no longer hot. Brett: no, no. Since, since he said he hated Taylor, that she was no [00:13:00] longer hot. And if we ignore that, the heirs tour also ended in that period. He was right a hundred percent right. Christina: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, yeah. Well, what’s funny about this is that like she didn’t go to the American Music Awards and, and the fans, this is, okay, this is genuinely the funniest thing. You guys might appreciate this. So there’s been all this criminology and, and there’s a joke that says that by Taylor buying back her masters, she prevented, you know, millions of white women from join joining Q Anon. And it is true because these, these people were insane, including like people that I know, some of my friends got really into this too, where they were looking for all these Easter eggs that clearly never existed about when she was going to drop reputation that rerecord, because that album has become AOC cult classic. People really like it. And they were like, oh, she’s gonna go all out on this. And like, they would look into the, how many emojis is she putting in? And oh, she’s wearing this snake necklace and so that must mean this is coming out. Like it was getting like genuinely Q anon shit, right? And so she doesn’t go to the American Music [00:14:00] Awards because she didn’t win anything. But also she’s doesn’t have anything to promote and you only go to that award Brett: Or to prove for that Christina: Well, no, she has nothing to prove. She’s got like the most of them that you can possibly get and it’s a fan, ostensibly, fan voted award. But then they make it very clear we can change the results to be whatever the fuck we want them to be. It’s one of those things. So, you know, it’s like a third tier like music award show that you go to. If you’re trying to promote something, your label forces you or your like a, a d or E list, like influencer. That’s why you go, Taylor Swift’s not going to that. But people were like convinced that last week they were like, oh, she’s gonna go on, on, on, you know, Monday or whatever and she’s gonna do this. And I was like, no, she’s not. Like I told people in the the Google Swifties chat, I was like, no, she’s not going. Of course she’s not. And oh, we look like clown. She’s not doing this. So the funniest possible thing is the fact that she admitted she hadn’t even recco rerecorded a quarter of reputation and that like she didn’t want to, and that she had really been like hit a hit, hit a wall with it, and she was like. Yeah, [00:15:00] sorry, that’s not happening. I will give you like the bonus tracks if you want them, but like, I’m not re-recording this. So like, that’s genuinely the funniest thing is that for like years, literal years people have been like trying to figure out when is she gonna drop reputation and like it was all in everyone’s head. Like, it’s just, it’s, it’s incredibly funny. So, yeah. Sports Fandom and Mental Health Jeff: I like this, um, bringing in fandom into mental health. Like, uh, this is a, a far more, uh, kind of a stupid version, but I, I, every once in a while I get invested in a sports team and I did this year for almost an entire NBA season. And I am always struck by how, when, when your team wins, you personally feel like you’ve done something right. Yeah, yeah. When your team wins, you personally feel like you did something right. When they lose, you personally feel like, and here’s what pisses me off, is that like when they, when they, when they lost the conference playoffs last week, um, I, you know, I felt for them. I felt for me, I was say I felt like I did something where I could hardly look at them, but here’s what I realized of saying [00:16:00] this to my wife. I was like, they’re gonna go home tonight to their fucking $30 million homes, and I am just gonna stay in this bed I’m in now where I watch the game and feel shitty about myself and wake up and still be like, I. Not quite as, as able to buy three meals a day as I want to. Brett: Do you, Christina: right. Exactly. Jeff: Sorry, I mean, eating out, that was a weird, but Christina: No, I get what you’re Jeff: that was a weird, Brett: l has a small group of queer friends that adopted the wolf emoji and the blue heart emoji as they’re kind of like, they’re also mostly neurodivergent. And it was kind of their way of saying, I love you. I feel you. I’m not gonna respond right now. They would reply with just like a wolf and a blue heart. Jeff: but it’s not, that’s not a timber’s reference. Brett: I, no, Jeff: Okay. Okay. Okay. Brett: when the Timberwolves won last weekend, her their, uh, whole feed, like [00:17:00] all their text messages, their Facebook wall, everything was flooded with wolves and blue hearts. And, Christina: It’s very confusing. Brett: and El thought that thought of that as some weird synchronicity with the universe not realizing that, that el didn’t even know that the timber wolves was a team. Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Brett: so it, they had to come to me who knows just slightly more about sports than L does. Um, to Jeff: spend many years when they’re not a team. Brett: to figure out what was going on. I was around when they became a Jeff: Acapella and sports and Taylor Swift and awesome. Brett: we a sports podcast now? Jeff: that is the deepest I’m Christina: I, I Jeff: gonna go. Christina: I was gonna say, now we are actually, and, and we need to get to Brett, but like, on a future episode, Jeff, I do actually wanna like di dig into like, sports fandom with you because I don’t, I, I don’t go to sports Twitter, but, um, my friend Justin, um, is, is like a, a, a diehard for so many sports and [00:18:00] he keeps me up to date on it. Like he and I, like, we share obsessions with like, the various TV shows that lesbian Twitter is really into because that’s the best Twitter. And unfortunately Twitter is just the best network for anything. Pop culture or blue sky. It doesn’t have any fucking juice. And like, we’re not even gonna talk, pretend that threads and, and, and Mastodon exist in this conversation. ’cause I’m sorry, but they don’t, um. But like, but he will keep me up. Like, like he was sending me all kinds of memes from Paris last night when, um, when, when, when Paris won, like the, the, the, the soccer championships or whatever, like the premier league or whatever it was. And, uh, and, and, and like, you know, he sends me all kinds of other stuff. So I, I know some things, but not a lot. But I would love to like hear more about how you got really into the, in, in, into the timber wolves this, Jeff: I have to scrub my algorithm on YouTube now because it’s only when the season’s on that I wanna watch highlights and press conferences. So I had to do a, you know, the full cleaning you do where you’re just like not interested, not interested, not interested. For some reason I have to say not interested to like corn videos about every two months. I don’t like corn. I don’t listen to [00:19:00] corn, Brett. Sorry. Christina: Well, Brett: I don’t listen to corn. What are you talking about? Jeff: No, I’m saying, sorry. You have a, you have a mental health update. Christina: yeah, you do. And we’re, and we’re talking about Maynard or whatever, but like, uh, yeah. Brett: Yeah. Jeff: Brett, Bartholomew Terpstra Brett: How I have never told you my middle name. How did you, Jeff: names. Yeah. I’m a great guesser. I can also guess your weight Brett: you want, do you want, do you know what my middle name actually Jeff: No. Christina: Paul. Brett: It’s Marine. Jeff: Marine. What Christina: would’ve gotten Jeff: Really? Brett: Marine with two R’s, which was my, I think, my great-grandfather’s first name. Christina: Okay, Brett: And it means man from around the water. My first name means man from the Isles of Britain. And my last name, name means man from the Manmade Hills in Jeff: a man. Christina: so you’re just Jeff: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Man. From the man. That’s how, that’s very specific. Brett: family from the Manmade Hills. So like a [00:20:00] TURP is the obs opposite of a dyke. Um. Well, not Jeff: That’s not, we don’t say that. Brett: I get that a lot, but, um, like they were like manmade hills that cities were built on in areas that were prone to flooding. I think so. Turp a turp and Terpstra means from the TURPs if you’re Dutch. And so yeah, I’m, I just have a well-traveled name, but Aloia, I Jeff: is there some name that could be like, um, man from the text editor in his basement? Brett: Hmm. Jeff: You could like, you could add that Brett: Tex Mara. Christina: text, Brett: Text extra. Text extra. There you. Yeah, it’s right there. Jeff: All right, Maureen, you go. Brett: All right. Job Hunting Struggles Brett: Um, so I can’t remember where I was last time I was on, but I have been let go from Oracle. I have spent the last month sending out job applications. Um, I got. [00:21:00] A bite from Shopify and they put me through three hours of interviews and had me spend two hours on a writing assignment. So we’re looking at five hours invested before they said we’ve decided to move forward with other candidates. And that was so tiring emotionally that I have taken a couple days off before I start sending resumes out again. Um, but it took me 30 resumes to get one hit. And for some of those resumes I had like referrals within the organization. And even then I couldn’t get an interview. Um, so despite the fact that LinkedIn is chockfull of jobs, I’m qualified for getting an interview is. Difficult. Um, so I am [00:22:00] heavily weighing my options as an independent developer. Um, I have, uh, Jeff: Which should have made you rich. Not literally, but you shouldn’t have to. You should want for nothing given the quality of your work. Brett: Thank you. Thank you. But I, I also am a horrible business person, Jeff: Yeah. Well that goes along Brett: and I give so much away for free, and, but Jeff: punk rock damaged. I think that’s Ted Leo’s term. Your punk rock damaged. You give everything away from free or you feel guilty. Brett: yeah, right. I, uh, but I’m looking at like how I can like kinda revamp my, my stable of apps to actually pay out, um, getting like Envy Ultra out the door. I have a version three of marked that is. Um, well, it was 90% finished and then I, I’ll tell you about it in a second. But, um, and I’m gonna put that out as like a subscription, uh, pricing [00:23:00] and uh, and I think even if I were to get another job, I could turn all of this passive income into like a second income. Um, but if I decide I’m don’t like interviewing and working for corporations, which feels like super possible right now, um, that I figured out ways that figured I can, I can have a 401k, I can have health insurance. I can have like, group rates on health insurance and get, like ACT did. Okay, so side note, in the Affordable Care Act, there’s a carve out for religious institutions. Do you know about this? Christina: Um, I, I’ve heard about this, but I don’t want know what the details Jeff: Are you back in the church? Christina: I was gonna say, are you gonna start a Brett: no, you don’t. You don’t have to be religious. It’s kind of a, it’s a backdoor if you know about it. [00:24:00] Religious organizations are allowed to negotiate these group rates for better insurance. And the problem with a lot of them is for anything major, it’s full coverage for anything minor. You often pay out of pocket and then they negotiate directly with the provider and then pay you back. Um, so it’s not like it’s not as convenient as regular health insurance, but in many cases Christina: you pay up front, but Brett: it’s better than what you can get on the. Yeah. On Christina: the marketplace. Brett: Yep. Um, so like, there, there are options out there. And right now, uh, I’m on Minnesota’s Medicare basically, uh, medical aid, um, which is Jeff: A great program. Minnesota’s the best. Brett: for people with zero, with zero reportable income, which is where I’m at at the moment. Um, and then if I start getting income, [00:25:00] I can switch to sre. Um, yeah, Minnesota’s, Minnesota’s a decent place to be broke. Um, we have, we have our homeless problems. We have, you know, we have homeless policy problems, but like if you are broke and you need health insurance, I feel pretty safe being in Minnesota. So, um, no complaints there. But anyway, can I. What do you wanna know? I feel like that’s my mental health in a nutshell. Jeff: Is, what do you wanna know about Marked or about you? Brett: Oh, I don’t care. I’ll talk about anything Jeff: have a Brett: these shrooms kick in. Jeff: I um, I have a question about applying for jobs. ’cause I have a colleague who does in the neighborhood of the work I do, I mean, he is a, he is a co-owner of the business, but he does far more like traditional evaluation. And I’m as always just kind of a weirdo of the backpack in the corner [00:26:00] making shit up. Um, but he’s. Been applying for jobs and he has applied for so many jobs and has not heard back from a single one of them. This is an extremely competent, um, person with a long history of, you know, demonstrable history of work, of good work. Um, he’s struggled with the fact that it, there’s a clear sort of AI filtering. Um, and so then he is trying to figure out like, do I use AI to match that? What I assume is the AI filtering and there’s all this, all this shit. And Brett, then I hear you talking again. Another, I mean obviously demonstrably capable person in the area that you’re, um, applying in all areas. Brett, let’s be honest, um, I realize this started to sound like that’s, I was saying you’re just, you’re just competent there, but let’s, let’s just be clear. Um, so do you get the sense, are you even hearing anything back when you’re not getting an interview? I. Brett: Um, I’m, I twi two out of 30. I heard immediately, like, [00:27:00] clearly AI generated, your resume doesn’t fit. What we’re looking for. Um, but 28 of those, not a peep, nothing. I didn’t even get a confirmation that they had received my resume. Jeff: wow. Christina: Yeah. Brett: I got a confirmation from Apple that they had received my resume and that if I were a fit, a recruiter would be in Dutch, but then nothing. Christina: nothing. Yeah. Brett: um, yeah, I think, I think AI is detrimental and if you don’t use it properly, I don’t think you get a job anymore. Jeff: is part of this, and Christina, I bet you would know some of this too, is part of this, that AI has also made it easy for many, many, many more people to apply for a job than they would have. Christina: Yes and no. Um, the, the, this whole like recruiting thing started long before the AI stuff, um, in terms of the automatically filtering and stuff out, because on the hiring side I dealt with things where if [00:28:00] somebody didn’t fill out and didn’t like show like all the requirements that were on a certain job, like they didn’t check every box, like I fit all these requirements or whatever, then they would automatically be given, you know, from greenhouse or whatever the system would be. Um, a rejection notice. Even people that we were actively like wanting to get their, like resume into the system because we were purposely recruiting them. There could be things that could break down in the system that would, would come down. And then at big companies, referrals can work and not work in certain ways. Like in, in some cases it will actually. Guarantee that a, a recruiter will give you a call and, and do a, a, a, a preliminary call and, and see if you’re a fit. But that’s not a guarantee because some places will claim, oh, well, because we fire, we, we, we have federal contracts, then we can’t technically take anything that will be, um, preferential from anyone. Even if it’s literally us asking our employees to refer people internally, we can’t take that as a signal. So you have to really, in a lot of cases, if you issue a referral, you really need to know the hiring manager and then be able to advocate for the [00:29:00] person directly. But the thing is, is that that doesn’t scale and we don’t all know the hiring managers for jobs that we see at companies that have hundreds of thousands of employees. So it’s shitty. AI has made it worse for sure, because the systems can now go through much faster than the older algorithms were, which we’re already doing the same things. Um, in terms of if more people are submitting that way, there have been a number of, I guess, kind of local projects where people will kind of spam, um. You know, uh, like job applications using AI to basically write the cover letters and maybe, you know, rework the resumes and, and whatnot based on the skills that you insert. Um, there have been some takedown notices for some of ’em. I think some are trying to maybe, you know, pivot into more paid services and whatnot. I don’t know how much that is actively being used in terms of sending in bulk, but I do feel like at this point, if it were me, if I were like actively looking for a job, I would absolutely be trying to use the AI against itself. Right. I would absolutely be trying to optimize my cover letter or my resume everything, um, Brett: so I [00:30:00] did that. I, I optimized and I, and I would do it per application too. I would copy in the job requirements and the whole nice to have section and then copy in my current resume and tell it to tailor it. And, and I would use that. And I sent out a bunch of tailored cover Christina: That, and that can work or it can’t work. Yeah. What I, what I will say, um, and I don’t know if this’ll help like either of you, um, but, but might be something to put out to your friend. The years of experience thing is, unfortunately, even though it’s illegal, like one of the few labor protections that we have in this country is supposed to be around like ageism. It doesn’t matter. Um, limit the, uh, limit how far back you, uh, go in terms of your resume. Yeah. Like I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m being freaking real. Like I, and I would do this myself. Like I wouldn’t, there’s, I, I would like, uh, at a certain point this where it kind kind of becomes a problem if you’ve worked at places for really long periods of time. Like a friend of mine, um, Microsoft laid off a bunch of people and, and [00:31:00] he’s been there for 19 years and that is gonna be hard for him to be able to like. Fudge on a resume, right? But, but, but, but in general, like drop things from before a certain period of time because it, ageism should, it’s not supposed to be legal, but companies, recruiters, whatnot, they will look at that. And so dropping the amount of years of experience, uh, is one of the, one of the things that I hear from, from people, from recruiters and, and from, um, like that, that just advice that I, I would give to others. Like, it, it doesn’t actually work in your favor the way that it should because the way that recruiters potentially see it or employers is like, oh, this person’s going to cost me more money. Not, this person’s going to be more valuable. And, and so that can like, fuck you from even getting into the conversation. The, the, the job market is so shitty right now. I have a lot of friends who are going through this and I, so I really, you know, feel for you Brett, and like it has nothing to do with you. Like that’s the thing. Like, and, and then the interview process itself. You’re not wrong. Like many times you’d have the take homes and you have like the [00:32:00] systems design interviews and you have like. A lot of work that goes into it, and some places will pay you for that, but, um, most won’t. And you know, four or five years ago things were different and people were actively trying to recruit talent for, for tech jobs. Now they’re not. And so like the amount of money that they will, you know, uh, put out for recruitment in terms of like, if they, in the past, like sometimes some places would pay people like a, a, a small, like hourly wage to go through the, you know, uh, testing process. Like that’s all out the window because they know that, you know, people want the jobs. It’s, it’s really shitty. Brett: I, so the Shopify one I got pretty excited about because not only was I a hundred percent qualified for the position, like there were some things I’ve applied for that I’m like, I could pick it up, I could learn this. But the Shopify one, I mean Shopify’s written in Ruby Christina: I was gonna say, Jeff: Oh man.[00:33:00] Brett: it’s written in Ruby. And like I would, I was applying for the docs team writing API docs for developers working with Ruby interfaces, using static blog generating systems based on liquid, which Shopify invented. And like all of this stuff I have. Decades of experience with, um, and, and when I got the letter that said we’ve decided to go with other more qualified candidates, I was like, what? Jeff: That was the letter. Brett: I, yeah, I don’t, I don’t, I would, I would love to meet the person more qualified than me for this job. So I have to assume there were other factors that they can’t legally say were the reason. Christina: Totally, totally. I mean, ’cause and that’s such bullshit, like, ’cause the thing is, is that, like, to me that also seems like a, I don’t know, either they had another candidate in mind or, or what, which, fair enough. But like, you know, [00:34:00] this, this is like a, a, a clear problem to me with like their recruiting systems. If you’re going to take one of the foremost experts on all the things that, that they’re looking for and be like, no. Jeff: Hmm. Yeah. Brett: yeah. Jeff: I am, uh, one of the things that gives me pause. I mean, I, so the way I’ve always gotten work is usually based on something I had been working on in the previous year, and someone sees that and goes, Hey, we want you over here. Um, that’s how I kind of like moved forward through journalism. It’s how I ended up in what I’m doing now, which I’ve now been doing for more than 10 years. Um, and, but I can see a, a world in which it’s no longer possible for me to make a full living doing this work. I mean, we’ve had, you know, I’m, I’m noticing we have fewer small contracts. I don’t know that we’ll have more of the really large contracts. We’ve kind of, that’s been our bread and butter. Um. And, and one of the things that really is like, oh man, I’m fucked. I’m, I’m strictly gonna have to get whatever my next job is based on a relationship somehow. [00:35:00] Because if it’s AI filtered and I don’t have a high school diploma, I’m out before you get to anything else. Like, that’s it. I’m gone. I’m not making it through. Um, and that is, that is, um, humbling. It also pisses me off ’cause I finally am at a point in my life, I mean, I’ve been there for maybe 12, 13 years, but where I didn’t feel like that was gonna be a liability ever. And in fact I felt like just because of the trajectory it set me on, it was a strength. Um, but I will say that when I got a job in public radio, no one there knew I didn’t have a high school diploma, didn’t go to college. And when my boss found out, she had a little bit of a, I hope my boss doesn’t find out response to that. Um, and, and so like, you know, I was, but I was able to just kind of skate through without anybody asking. ’cause people were focused on the work I had done and Christina: Well, right, well, well, they just assume they, they, they, they just make assumptions. I mean, that’s why usually a lot of places will say, or equivalent experience, which is, is, is where you can kind of not be saying that you’re lying, you know, on your application stuff. ’cause that’s, that’s the [00:36:00] thing you gotta be careful about with things like that, is like, depending on what it asks, if, if you give incorrect information, then they can pull the offer when, when they do a background check and whatnot. And, and those background checks will try to verify, um, you know, like education and whatnot. But, um, but, but it’ll say like, or equivalent. And if you have, like, you have clearly the equivalent experience of, you know, a, a bachelor’s degree. Um, so, um, like that. Like, obviously you, you wouldn’t claim like a higher degree than that, but like you, Jeff: At least a high school diploma. Christina: No, I Jeff: What if I, do you think I could sneak through? Do you think I could sneak through listing the school of hard knocks? Christina: No, no. Brett: my, my college apparently doesn’t have me on record as graduating. Um, when Oracle did their background check on me, they’re like, we cannot confirm. And I sent them a photo of my diploma and they accepted that. But I never followed up with Mc CA to see why. Jeff: mcad. [00:37:00] Uh, that’s, uh, art school in the Twin Cities. Everybody. Brett: Why would they not have me on record as having a bachelor of Arts? Mental Health and Hobbies Brett: But anyway, so, so, so mental health wise, I’ve been staying sane by coding, working on, um, being self-sufficient. Uh, gardening, we’ve been planting, planting some subsistence farming style crops, um, and, uh, and watching movies. And I think we can go from there into Christina: First we should do our our sponsor break. Jeff: Oh, but Brett, when we’re out of that, I know, I know we have some pitch Perfect. Top. I have so many questions about Mark three, and we can just do an episode on that Brett: so here’s, here’s what I suggest. Give me after, after the sponsor read, give me three minutes to tell you about Mark three. You can ask any questions you Jeff: Three minutes. That becomes gratitude. I want, I have so many questions. Brett: uh, three minutes for me to tell you.[00:38:00] Jeff: Oh, Christina: And then we’ll do a follow Brett: And then, and then you can ask, you can ask all the questions you want. And then I definitely wanna talk about Pitch Perfect and step Up Jeff: Well, we are an acapella Christina: we are Brett: here’s, Jeff: We got this Brett: Here’s your cliffhanger. We’ll be right back with all of this after these messages. Sponsor: Insta360 Brett: Today’s episode is sponsored by Insta 360, a leader in 360 degree action camera technology. Their latest 360 degree camera, Insta 360 x five, launched April 22nd, and shoots a full 360 degree video in incredible eight K 30 resolution. Since it films in all directions at once, you don’t even need to aim the camera. Just hit record. Live in the moment and choose any angle you want in the edit. With Insta three Sixty’s mobile app, it’s easy, smooth, and packed with AI tools for a faster workflow. You can even get those impossible drone like third person [00:39:00] shots using the invisible selfie stick that disappears from the final video. From immersive POVs to unique third person shots, X five is every camera you’ll ever need in one. An efficient triple AI chip means seriously smooth performance, plus huge sensors and dedicated low light shooting mode, deliver unmatched detail and quality day and night. X five Also features Insta three sixty’s toughest ever lenses, which are completely replaceable, so you can risk the shot with confidence to bag 114 centimeter invisible selfie stick worth 24 99 with your Insta 360 X five standard package purchase. Head to store dot insta three sixty.com and use the promo code Overtired. This is available for the first 30 standard package purchases only. For more information, be sure to check out the links in our show notes [00:40:00] that store dot insta three sixty.com and use the code Overtired. Christina: Um, 1, 1, 1 thing I’ll note just real quickly about the Insta 360 stuff, because I’ve used their stuff and it’s really actually very good, is that invisible selfie stick. What they do there is they basically like have, I guess it kind of programmed in like how their recording software works or whatnot, so that if you’re using that particular stick, when you bring your video in, like literally the selfie stick just disappears. Like it’s automatically taken out, like without having to do anything in, in like an editing app or whatnot. It’s just like gone, which is, which is kind of badass. Brett: I’ve seen, like friends of mine, Richard Lawler from End Gadget, uh, got a 360 degree, degree camera and was posting like 360 shots to Facebook. And they were cool. Like I was, I was jealous. They were cool. I, I also kind of want drone, but some things are just Christina: Yeah, I mean, this one, you don’t have [00:41:00] to get an FAA, like granted, it’s like a, you know, small license, but like, you don’t have to bother, like with, oh, where can I use this? Where can I not? Like, that’s the nice thing about it is that, ’cause there you wouldn’t have this problem because you have like land and whatnot, but like, there are a lot of places, like if, if you live in an urban area, like I would love a drone. I would not be allowed to use a drone. Um, and, and even a lot of parks and stuff like, won’t let you use them, but like you can get similar shots to that if you have it like a pie enough, you know, because it’ll go, it’ll go 360. So it’s, it’s pretty fun. Jeff: What if, if I got a drone, I’d put a Ukrainian flag on it just to scare the shit out of anybody, Brett: Ukrainian and a German flag. Jeff: and it’s, oh, yeah. Okay. All right. In-Depth Discussion on Marked App Brett: so, so here’s what I’ve been working on. I have focused most of my development time on Mark, which is my pre premier, premier. I don’t know if that’s the word I want, but it’s, it’s the, it’s the app I have that makes me the most money, Christina: It’s your flagship app right [00:42:00] now. It’s your Brett: flagship. There you go. Until, until NV Christina: Until Envy Alter comes out. This is your flagship? Yeah. Brett: So, so I have been focusing on Marked, which originally released at 3 99, and John Gruber immediately wrote about it, and I began making like seven grand a month on it, um, at 3 99. Christina: Mm-hmm. Brett: And then time went on, uh, sales slowly dwindled. Eventually I added enough features to it that I considered it like a $15 app. Um. Jeff: easily, Brett: And so now, so e even today it’s 1399 and, um, I have customers that have been with me since they paid $4 for it and have never paid another dime and have gotten over a Jeff: on this podcast. Christina: Huh, Brett: over a decade of support from me. Um, [00:43:00] and it’s either time for a major version upgrade, a paid upgrade, or that I switch to subscription pricing. And I am, I, I’m pretty, I’m 99% decided that I’m going subscription because. Like people who are anti subscription, say, if you’re not paying for hosting, if you’re not paying like your own monthly costs on something, you shouldn’t charge a subscription. But I disagree because if you are constantly putting in development and you wanna just release new features as you develop them, instead of saving up for one big yearly release, a subscription makes perfect sense. So, um, I had, I had decided I was gonna price it at like 2 99 a month, um, with, with like a, with a six month and yearly and a permanent unlock price. But, um, setup [00:44:00] has, is about to roll out their single app plans Jeff: Oh, I didn’t know that. Brett: Where they will handle the subscriptions for a single app instead of paying for all of set, but they have a minimum pricing of 4 99 a month for an individual app. And I thought when, let me, when I tell you about what’s about to happen in Mark, I think you’ll agree that’s a reasonable price. So what I’ve added, um, okay, so Mark has always had a Doc X export and it has always been bullshit. Um, it is always basically just giving you an RTF file pasted into a Doc X file. Jeff: Yes. Brett: It now on my machine will give you a fully structured word file with styles, with headings, with list items. It can [00:45:00] even import, uh, it can turn word change tracking. Into critic markup, and it can change word highlights into colored highlights in your markdown using span tags. Um, and it’s bidirectional. You can open up a Doc X file in marked, Jeff: Shut your dirty mouth. Brett: save it as markdown or turn your, or save it as a new word file with cleaned up syntax and cleaned up change Jeff: I’m just gonna send you my credit card. The whole thing. Brett: I also completely rewrote Scrivener in, uh, integration. So up until now, Scrivener integration is always depended on a combination of Python and Ruby Scripts to render a Scrivener file into a markdown document, it is now completely done in native code. Lightning [00:46:00] fast handles all of Scrivener’s additional syntax. Um, for highlights and callouts and footnotes and everything is all handled and exportable as, uh, multi markdown or GitHub flavored markdown. I also built in crammed down and common mark processors into Mark. So you, you, you have four, four processors to choose from and what I’m working on right now is, um, you guys have used Hazel. Jeff: Yeah. Brett: So when you edit a, when you add a rule in Hazel and you get the criteria, like the predicate editor is what it’s called in like Mac Os, and then you have your action section, I have built that for Mark so that instead of a single custom processor, you can now use a predicate to base, uh, a decision on file, name, extension path. What other files [00:47:00] exist in the same directory or tree as a file? Uh, text content matches. Uh, there, there’s about 20 things you could match on, and then based on those matches, you can run about 15 different actions. Everything from like normalizing headers, shifting headers, running commands, running processors, um. Uh, adding setting styles, adding metadata, you can do just about anything with zero code. Uh, you can do it all using a graphical interface to build out your own custom processors so you can run different processors even if you just run, even if you just wanted to run, cram down for documents that existed in your, your blogs folder and multi markdown for things that existed in your work folder. Uh, that would be, it would take you 30 seconds to set that up in the custom rules builder. And then from then on [00:48:00] whenever you opened a file that met those criteria, the correct processor would just be run. So that is light years ahead of where Merck has been for the last 10 years, and, and I think it’s worth some Jeff: call that shit marked five. Christina: Yeah, I mean, you could, yeah, you could. I was gonna say like, like, like, bring, bring it to 6, 6, 6 blades. Um, if I can make an observation, and I know we wanna talk about movies. Um, it seems like especially with the, the, the, the custom processing, uh, pre-processing work and conversion work you’ve been doing, um, especially if you can like both, like take this into, and I’m assuming like I, and like you said, it’s bidirectional, right? So not only can you put all that into nicely formatted word stuff, but you can also take all the word stuff and put that into markdown, right? Brett: Yeah. Jeff: is insane, by the Christina: Right. Well, this is my point. I feel like there’s an opportunity, you have the consumer product and marked and, and you can price that and, and figure out whatever the, the, you know, monthly or, or subscription price on that, um, will be. But I feel like there’s an opportunity [00:49:00] with so many businesses and so many, um, like firms needing to convert data into markdown, to interact with LLMs, that you should be licensing that to them directly from like an enterprise level or a business Brett: already, I have already made it extractable. Um, it can run, um, on its own and it could be sold as a library Christina: Right. And that’s what I’m Brett: without any of Mark’s other proprietary code. It’s a completely separate library that could be licensed or used, or I could build an app that literally just does word to markdown or word to word conversion. Christina: totally. And, and what I’m saying though is, is that that should be like a, a thing that you should be talking to like larger places about and like selling that, like as it as its own thing. Because I think not only all the, all these features great and obviously like from having a gui, there’s great value there, but even as a library for people that are going to need to do RAG and other types of stuff and they’re going to need to convert lots of documents, they might not actually wanna use a [00:50:00] gui, they might wanna have a library so they can build their own automated system so they can, you know, have like probably a webinar interface where people would upload a bunch of docs and it would, you know, spit out the, the ensuing, uh, text files so they can then submit them into, into their processes. But they don’t wanna spend the time, you know, they’re, they’re not, what they build themselves is not gonna be as good as what you’ve done because you’re one of the experts in this. Um, I’m just, just pointing out there that there’s like a. There’s a market for that, um, with either to license the library for other people to build it into their stuff or to, you know, sell to people directly so that they can build it into their own internal systems. Brett: My friend Kaylin, uh, I don’t know if you guys have ever used a label printer, Jeff: Yeah, I got one on my desk ’cause I’m 400 years Brett: course you do. Um, but like, so there’s, there’s this huge market for label printers, for everything from co-ops to Walmart. And there is like zero good software for Jeff: Oh yeah, this is less. Less than zero. Yeah, Brett: awful. Jeff: [00:51:00] Also, the one I use is unfortunately called P Touch. But go ahead. Like, what’s up brother? Like, that’s, how many meetings did p touch make Christina: Well, they’re so Japanese, they’re, they’re so Jeff: Uh, good point, good point. Sorry, Brett. Brett: so Kaylyn wrote Universal Printer label software. It’s label something. Label I label live. He wrote label live, and he sells it at a premium price because there’s literally no competition. And he, he is, he lives the most relaxed lifestyle. I. Because he’s an amazing developer. He keeps his software up to date and it takes him, I don’t know, maybe an hour a day, and then another hour a day of doing customer support. And he charges a premium price and makes enough to buy a house. And, um, and [00:52:00] this is, this is to Christina’s point, like if you sell the right product to the right people, you can, you can set yourself up. And I’ve just historically done a shit job of that. Jeff: Well, and the thing about like Word right, is the reason I’m excited about that is ’cause whenever I work with big, like big clients, I have to work in Word. And so like those are the kind of, I mean, amazing. Brett: Well, and when I was, I was, I was started working on this when I was still at Oracle and when I switched to the last manager I had, I started having to daily work with Word files and people would send the most fucked up Word files to me, uh, for like editing for, or even just as like, here’s instructions for how to do a thing. I’m gonna send you a Doc X file with, with a poorly formatted list in it. And so I began writing the software that would convert that into clean markdown, [00:53:00] and then I could use Mark to output a clean PDF and, and I would send it back to them and be like, here’s what you sent me 30 seconds later, here’s an actual readable, usable version of it that doesn’t require me to launch Microsoft Word. Um. Jeff: is there, is there anybody that’s gotten that markdown to Doc X export? Right. ’cause Brett: Yeah, Ulysses has done a pretty good job Jeff: yeah. I barely used it. Okay. Brett: and, and I, I borrowed a lot from some of Ulysses philosophies. Um, I think my Doc X export is now better than Ulysses. I am confident in calling it a best in class markdown to Doc X conversion. Um, I and I, like for a while I played with the ability to convert CSS styles into word styles, um, that gets messy. Christina: Yeah. And, and, and I feel like that’s, that, I also feel like that’s a [00:54:00] niche enough thing to be completely honest with you, that like most people who are going to be doing that sort of styling, like Mo, Brett: sable, they already have their own templates. Christina: They only have their own templates. And so what they really want is a way to get the, the, the base text into Word or to get the base word document into plain text. What they’re not wanting to do is, is, is fuck with the formatting because in many cases, Brett: especially not in CSS, Christina: Well, well, Brett: how they wanna do Christina: well, I was gonna say, when I, when I’ve used Mark for, for some conversion stuff, I, interestingly enough for some LLM usage with some like, uh, uh, coding stuff where I’ve like, basically taken a lot of HTML stuff and I’ve needed to, uh, have, have a easy way to kind of convert it. And I’ve either used command line tools where I’ve used Mark, like I’ve always turned off the export to like hide any style sheets. ’cause I’m like, I, for, for my purposes, I don’t want that. Right. Like that, that’s like, it, it’s fine if I’m looking at it visually in the app, but like that’s, that’s not what I’m here for. Brett: I did was just build in a bunch of like well-designed custom styles. Like there’s like [00:55:00] five, and you can choose a well-designed custom style that’ll look great in Word, but it’s like a hundred percent designed so that when you open it in Word, you open up your theme. Pal, you pick a theme and it works. It just applies it to everything. Um, which is my assumption that most people who are required to work in Word also have corporate style guidelines Christina: I, I would say that, Brett: and like, and themes that they have to use. Um, oh by the way, headers and footers also translate from Jeff: Oh wow. Brett: and you can set headers and footers in metadata in your markdown file and it’ll translate into a styled header in Word. Anyway, enough about Marked. That was fun. Thank you. Um. Yeah, I, I look forward to this release. Movies and Entertainment Brett: So the other thing that has kept me sane is movies. And I [00:56:00] started, I started with Pitch Perfect, which I think was inspired by listening at, by at, when I was editing the last episode and listening to you guys talk about acapella. And the only experience I have with Acapella is the Pitch Perfect movies. And I had seen them all previously, but I decided, what the hell, I’m gonna watch ’em all again. So I, I watched them in the wrong order. I watched them 2, 3, 1. Which kind of skewed my perspective on how good they were by saving the best for last like that. But it was fun. And I talked to, I was texting with Christina and Brian while doing this, getting opinions and feedback and, and that was cool. And then I, for some reason, I decided to get into the Step Up movies. And again, I fucked up [00:57:00] the order. I started with Step Up two, skip to Step Up Revolutions, then did three, then did one. I don’t know why I do this to myself. Christina: And this, Brett: like obviously Christina: right, and the thing is, is like the summit movies had their charm and like, I, I, I, I can like defend most of them, but like the original, you know, like Channing Tatum like movie, like it is, it was far better than it ever had any right to be when it came out. And like it holds up far better than it has any right to and, and, but like, yeah, don’t start with the sequel. The sequel I would argue is like the Brett: I know. I Christina: I actually think that the second Brett: But I think, I think it was a masochistic, like I just, I wanna watch a shitty Christina: Yes. Now I will say Brett: start with number three. Christina: Now I will say this. Magic Mike is one of those series that you can’t do in a wrong order actually. Like I actually Brett: Oh, I should do that. Christina: should actually, ’cause like the first one is a Soderberg film, and it’s actually like, of all of them, it’s [00:58:00] like, probably like the, the most movie movie and then Magic Mike, XXL or whatever. I loved, and I actually, I saw that in Pitch Perfect Two, like there, it’s the same movie as Pitch Perfect two. I think The Magic Mike two is, is, is, uh, far more successful. Um, and then the third one, um, is just, it’s just a great time. So yeah, that should be another one that you should like, uh, like Last Dance, like Brett: Yeah, for sure. I love chanting Christina: yeah. But, but also like that’s another series where it’s like far better, you know, to to, to step up. Like it’s far better than it has any right to be. But, um, yeah, Brett: Side note, Channing Tatum showed up in the last episode of Welcome to Reham, which is, uh, ri Jeff: I need to Christina: uh, McEnery and, uh, Ryan Reynolds show Brett: ny and yeah, um, Christina: he’s now just Rob Max, so we can just call him that now. Brett: Rob Mack, Rob Mack and Ryan Reynolds, and they own a soccer team. And Magic Mike shows up and does Magic. Mike moves in the locker room, [00:59:00] like shaking his fucking nuts in front of the soccer players, Jeff: Oh, it’s like a Jesus Brett: like, literally like one of them’s on the bench, and he has, he’s on the hands on the ground, feet up on either side of the guy’s head against the locker, just shaken. And it’s, it’s hilarious. I, I love that guy. Um, but. Jeff: I feel like not having seen the movie. This is where I feel like the mushrooms have kicked in for you. ’cause somehow I drifted for just a second and we went from acapella to a guy’s nuts. Brett: The movie that made me the happiest watching all of these movies that I enjoyed in like the nineties and the early two thousands. Uh, there was a movie called Stick It with Missy Pergram, and I fell in love with Christina: yeah, yeah. I remember this. I remember Brett: This movie, I had such a crush on her after I Christina: Yeah. Oh yeah. This, this was from the, from, from, from the Bring It on Director, which makes complete sense because in my opinion, Brett: Another favorite of Christina: yes. Now I will say this. [01:00:00] Bring it on the sequels. No, like, don’t even try, they’re all Director video. However, however, I’ve made this argument before and since you have now watched all the Pitch Perfects, maybe you’ll agree with me. Pitch Perfect One and bring it on one, the exact same movie. Brett: close. Yes. Christina: And, and that is not a pejorative, that is not like a, I’m not saying that in a negative way. Like when, when, and that clicked with me when I saw Pitch Perfect One in the theater and I was like, holy shit, this is a, this is acapella. Like bring it on. And I, and, and I mean that in the, the highest possible compliment because I think Bring It On is a perfect teen movie for what it attempts to be like the, the level of like, you know, like that was the first time we s. Brett: it’s a bureaucracy. Christina: Exactly. But not only that, but like they showed like, you know, actually talented, obviously in that case it was, it was, um, extras, but like actually talented cheerleading movies where like Pitch Perfect. You see actually talented singers in, in Step Up, you see actually Brett: Actually talented Christina: And like, that’s, that’s the thing for me with these movies, I’m like, okay. And I don’t, I don’t really care. Like if you’re having to like for both Step Up and, and Pitch [01:01:00] Perfect, it’s the actors themselves. But I don’t even care if you’re getting, you know, extras in on it. Like, just show me the real fucking talent. Like that elevates the whole thing to me. ’cause I’m like, yes, I love to see how this all comes out at the end. Brett: I, I owned the first bring it on, on VHS, on DVD. I own it on iTunes. Like I have owned it in every format. It’s been released in, I think. Um, Jeff: Wait, what’s the longest, what’s the longest series? Any of us own on, on iTunes or on. Brett: um, back to the future is probably, I don’t, it’s a Christina: Yeah, I was Brett: the longest I own. Christina: oh, I, I, I’ve got like all the Mission Impossible Brett: Oh, I do own all the Harry Potters, but not because I like them, because my ex-wife bought them and left them on my account. Christina: Yeah, I have, Jeff: I beat Christina by a little bit ’cause mine is fast furious. Christina: those too. I, I, I don’t know, have the, I don’t have the Brett: own them. Christina: yes. Jeff: all of ’em. Christina: They, they sell them in these, they had these sales from time to time Brett: [01:02:00] Yeah. There. It’s on right now. You can on iTunes. It’s like 29 Christina: Right. That’s what I’m Jeff: have Dom’s car as Brett: they have, Jeff: popcorn, uh, holder Christina: Oh my Brett: they Jeff: on display in my office. Brett: buy all the Mission Impossibles for a bundle price right Christina: Yeah. That’s how I buy. I have, I, I have like, like literally like a couple thousand movies on iTunes because of the bundles. Like people, like, Brett: yeah. No, I do that. I’ll be like, I, I have 30 bucks to spend. Let’s go see what’s Christina: actually, you know what, um, uh, remind me on this because I have an app for that that I will use as my gratitude actually. Brett: Awesome. All right. So anyway, stick it with Missy Pergram excellent movie. It’s not, it doesn’t have the thrill of like dance troops or it’s gymnastics. Christina: Yeah. Which is still fucking great. Brett: And you see some amazing gymnasts, some amazing moves, and the, the kind of, the like friction in it isn’t contrived the way, like the step up sequels had real, like just [01:03:00] contrived friction in them. And like the whole hook was like, dance was not the answer for these problems. And they, they shoehorned, they shoehorned dance into being the answer, but in, in stick it like the problem is gymnastic judges and the answer is gymnastics and it is team like co collusion. And it, it works. It’s, it’s really good. Jeff: Christina, I was listening to the Hard Fork podcast and they were talking about Google io and they mentioned, one of them mentioned seeing the Google acapella group rehearsing in the hallway. What the hell is that? They haven’t They have one. Christina: I mean, I’m not surprised. I think Microsoft did too, but Okay, cool. sure. Why not? Jeff: to add that in. It’s all I Brett: I, Christina: No, that’s amazing. ’cause I was at Google io. I wish I had seen that. If I had seen that, I would’ve taken video and I would’ve been like, what’s [01:04:00] up guys? Like. Brett: was a fan of the Jeff: You’d love my Brett: group, but they were all like 60 years old, Christina: Yeah, that’s that, that, that, that, that’s the thing. Like you’re never sure on those things. I’m like, okay, are you, you know, like, like, are are we, are we like my age or younger? ’cause I would hope that it would be people younger than me. ’cause that would make me feel better about myself. But like, you’re like, did you come in, like, did Pitch Perfect and, and the sing off? And did those things get you interested, like when you were in middle school and then like that’s why you did this? Or are you a nerd like me who, like, or the people who led to, you know, like the book that inspired Pitch Perfect. Oh, that’s another thing you should do, Brett. You should read the book. That Pitch Perfect was based off of, it was, it’s it’s a good book. Yeah. It’s by a guy. It’s, it’s by a fucking New Yorker author, Brett: All right. Christina: Mi Mickey Rapkin. He, he like followed like the world of collegiate acapella, um, in like 2009 or something, and then wrote a book about it and then that was adapted into Pitch. Perfect. Brett: Will you throw a link to that book in the show Jeff: You’ll also notice it in last week’s show notes. Oh, I’m sorry. The last episode. I don’t know if it made it in the show notes, but it, [01:05:00] uh, it was mentioned, maybe it didn’t make it in the show notes. Brett: cool. All right. Should we do Jeff: I just wanna point out that that particular acapella book has now been pitched in two of our, Christina: I was gonna say, look, uh, well, well look, Jeff: pitched. Oh Christina: gonna say it was, it was like you purchased a Kindle edition on August 11th, 2009. Brett: All right. GrAPPtitude Brett: Should we do some gratitude? Jeff: sure. Brett: Um, I can kick it Christina: Yeah. Kick it off. Brett: if that’s cool. Um, so in the process of working on Marked and I. Some of my other projects I tried out Cursor and I know you guys talked a little bit about vibe coating recently, and I’m not, I’m not personally doing vibe coating, although I have seen some good products come out of vibe coding, um, respectable applications being developed. A friend of mine, friend of the show, rabbi Eric [01:06:00] Linder, uh, friend of the show ’cause he is a friend of, he was on Systematic, um, he he Jeff: He is been on this show. Yeah, I was. I think you and I had a mom and Christina couldn’t be on once. Brett: he released an iOS app that he built entirely with ai. Um. But I’ve been using it because like GitHub copilot is outstanding and especially when I’m working in Ruby, I have found it just, I start typing DEF, which is how you sort of function in Ruby. I type DEF and fucking knows the function I’m about to write without even writing a comment. It’s just like, it’s there in like grade text, I hit tab and the function I was thinking of for whatever reason, it, it predicted what I was gonna need next. Um, and Cursor is much the same, um, as using like a conversation mode in GitHub copilot. [01:07:00] I have enjoyed with, with Cursor using Claude. Um. I have gotten really good results and it has written entire sections of code for me that honestly, like it takes, I’ll come up with an idea and I’ll, I’ll flesh it out in cursor and it’ll take me an hour to debug the code it wrote, but that code would’ve taken me easily five, six hours to write on my own. Christina: No, I mean, and that, that, that’s the perfect way I think of using that. Try, please try the Gemini 2.5 Pro model in place of Claude. And because I’m not just saying that because I work, uh, at DeepMind, um, the models are finally getting good, and I would like to, I would be curious about your feedback. Um, they, they do Nerf how big the context window is a little bit because the context window, um, on, on, um, uh, uh, Gemini 2.5 Pro is [01:08:00] significantly larger than on Claude 3.7. I, I don’t know, for, for Claude four, I think it still is, but give it a shot. I’d just be curious your, your, your thoughts Brett: And then the other half of my gratitude would be an app called Co Typist for Mac, um, and co typist is it, think of it as AI for text expander, anywhere you’re typing. Uh, so, so Apple recently, recently introduced like their AI writing tools and like when you’re in messages, it tries to predict what you’re gonna write. It’s never correct, uh, for me. Like it’s always in the wrong tone. It’s always the wrong sentiment. It’s never what I actually wanna say. But co typist is amazingly good predictive text. And when you use co typist in cursor. It will literally write your prompts for you. You’ll start writing, [01:09:00] this is what I wanna accomplish. And then you’ll start like, it’ll name variables, it’ll name method names. It’ll give you file names just by typing the first couple letters and it’ll complete all of these, all of the things you need to write a really detailed, really, um, actionable prompt. In cursor co typist will handle 50% of that workload for you. So the combination of co typist and cursor has cut my development time by 90%. Christina: That’s Jeff: Wow. That’s amazing. Brett: That’s it. That’s it for me. Jeff: Love it. Christina: Um, I’ll go next. Uh, this is just a kind of a, we were talking about like iTunes prices and deals and stuff. There is an app, it is actually available on the app store on um, Google Play and on um, the web and it is called Cheap Charts. And so if you go to cheap charts.com or, or cheap charts.info, um, you can access it and basically it is a tracker is a way for you to track like a wishlist of all like [01:10:00] the movies or TV shows or, um, if you use the website, you can also use video games for like, you know, Xbox or PlayStation or Switch. Um, but you can also do things like books I think and audiobook, like basically any of the stuff that Apple offers, you can create your own playlist. This is actually cool because last year, maybe two years ago, apple got rid of the ability to have a wishlist feature, um, in iTunes. And like people were really upset about that. You can still maintain this on, um. Cheap charts and they will, like, the app will update or you can choose to get notifications or not. Or you can get an email when the price comes down. And so you can basically view what the price is, what the historical price trend has been. So, you know, should I buy this now or not? Right? Like 4 99 is as low as any movie goes on, on iTunes, um, for a one-off. But, um, bundles can, can vary in prices. So maybe like, okay, well this bundle is $30, do I wanna get this? Or is there a shot looking at historical price trends that it might go down to, you know, $20, you can make that decision, right? Like I think, [01:11:00] um, uh, 30 is usually a pretty good mark, but sometimes you’ll see things even for like one day, like sometimes I’ll get notifications and I’ll be like, this, you know, like a hundred dollars box to this $15 and you, I know it’ll only be on sale for like. A day if that, and I’ll just immediately buy it. So, uh, so cheap charts.com is, is great. I’m a big fan. Um, and, uh, they, the, the website version can also work on Fandango and Google Play and Amazon. I, I don’t use it with those services, I just use it with iTunes, but, um, because that’s like my source of truth. And then I use, um, the, the movies everywhere, uh, movies anywhere, service rather to port them to, to other, um, platforms if the, if they’re part of the, the studio consortium there. But, um, yeah, this is a free app. They also cover things like for, you know, gift card deals and stuff like that. And I’m, I’m a, I’m a huge fan, so, so cheap charts. I’ve been using it for years. Um, they’re, uh, they’re good people. Their, their iTunes app or, or their iOS app, uh, there’s a test flight that’s, um, often available to join [01:12:00] I’m, which I’m in, and they update pretty frequently and like they do, they do a really good job. Jeff: It is super interesting. I’m looking at the price history for the Dwayne, the Rock Johnson, um, uh, picture snitch. Um, and, and it is super interesting to see how it just has this drumbeat of going from 9 99 to four point 99, 9 0.99 to four point 99. It’s just super interesting to see like the, to kind of see the logic. Bet of the history of that. Christina: Yeah, totally. And then like, it’s interesting ’cause like I, I don’t know what the other stores do. ’cause like I said, I primarily know the, the iTunes store ’cause that’s my point of truth. But, um, they have, um, you know, but you, like there will be sales, like, like Memorial Day is usually a big sale, 4th of July. There’s often, sometimes like summer things, some stuff around like, um, you know, day after Thanksgiving and, and Christmas time where like you will, I will notice that there will be either really big brand new bundles of movies that they haven’t done before, or there will be, you know, just big price cuts. And so, um, like, I, like I have, I have some movies that have been like in [01:13:00] my, um. Queue or on my wishlist for a long time, and I’m just waiting for them to drop because I’m like, I’m not gonna pay 1499 for hackers, which for some reason I don’t have in iTunes, but I will pay 4 99 for it. Right. And, and, and what I find myself doing, and like, so because of this app I’ve spent, it’s a free app, but I’ve spent so much money because of it. Like I don’t trust the services to, to keep things on them at all. Like, like even like I don’t trust HBO Max, which is now HBO Max. Again, I Jeff: Yeah, which is amazing. Christina: which is amazing. But like, I don’t trust them to keep like Oz and The Wire and Sex and the City and the Sopranos. Like, I don’t actually trust they will keep them on those networks, like on, on their streaming platform perpetuity. Even though they own the shows. Like you would think, oh yeah, I can just rely on this. I don’t, right. Because David Zoff sucks. And, and so like if I, if I see that like the, the complete series of the Sopranos drops to 50 bucks. I might buy that, right? Like same [01:14:00] thing if, if I, you know, um, uh, things like hacks and other shows like succession, like if I can get, you know, good prices on it. Like for me, I, I guess I’m, I’m, I’m playing a little bit of a game of chicken ’cause I’m, I’m betting that iTunes will keep the content playable longer than the streaming services will. Um, but I, I, you know, that, that is, is paid off. It’s been like 21, 22 years, so, Jeff: paid off. Christina: so, you Jeff: I’m amazed. Brett: So here’s, here’s, here’s my thought. Yes. Buy, do exactly what you’re doing. Archive using iTunes, but then grab the Torrance and save your own Christina: Oh Brett: ’cause you’ve paid for it and you should have Christina: and I do and I do do that. Right. And, and, but, but many times it’s just like the convenience of like having it in Brett: Mm-hmm. Oh, absolutely. Christina: like is just better than having to deal with Plex and I love Plex. Um, but no, I, I fully agree with you. Um, but yeah, I, I, uh, I’m, I’m a big fan of, of, of cheap charts. So if you are somebody who still buys digital media [01:15:00] yeah. Brett: yeah, once I bought Stick it on iTunes, I also grabbed the Torrent and now it’s on my plex as well. Jeff: Rule one, pay the man, rule two, steal it out of the Brett: Paid the Christina: no, it’s, it is rule rule two was have multiple backups, right? Like we, we, we were all like a, a multi backup strategy family. Right? And that means that, like, I think that of all the companies, ’cause like Sony did that thing last year where they like got rid of everybody’s movies that they purchased on PlayStation, which was fucking bullshit. And I was Jeff: Oh, really? That’s Christina: yeah, it is fucked up. And I was like, okay, well I’m glad I never like bought any media from them. Right? And, and I, and I feel like, you know, Amazon, Microsoft, um, apple are probably gonna be the three that will be the best for that. And I would put Apple very top just because the institution, the, the backlash that they would get, I think if, if they remove people’s library content would be astronomical. But, you know, it will be one, there will be come a day where they’ll be like, no, we’re not gonna do this. And that’s when the, the, the Torrent downloads will, will save us all.[01:16:00] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Fuck the man. Christina: Fuck the man indeed. Jeff: Um, well, mine is kind of funny. It’s an, it’s an app that you can’t, can’t get called scans script. Does that sound familiar, Brett? Because I have had, as I mentioned in the last, uh. In the last, uh, episode, I have had the great fortune of being able to vibe code with Brett Terpstra. Where Brett Terpstra is, is like the vibe coding service. And, and Brett, you and I, I, you know, I do qualitative research and, and that requires a lot of really expensive, like super locked down software, and it’s really complex to use. And I had this, this sort of vision for being able to share single transcripts or a, a set of transcripts with like a client who I was doing interviews on behalf of, or analysis on behalf of. And I wanted them to be able to, like, I’m big on, um, Brett: Oh, Jeff: kind of learn, learn how to do qualitative analysis. And so Brett, Brett and I did this thing, and by Brett and I, I mean Brett, but I was vibe coding, [01:17:00] um, where like, and Brett successfully created this like prototype where you can load up a transcript, you can load up the, I think you used HTML five for this, which is awesome, right? Like, uh, you can load up the audio file and. Then once you’ve done that, you have the transcript open. You can, you can click anywhere in the transcript and the audio file plays at that point. You can do highlighting, you can highlight just proper nouns, um, which is always really important for like de-identifying a, a transcript. But anyway, at the time when I was imagining, and this is why I’ve revisited, it was like, you know, like you could have an elementary classroom that could learn qualitative coding with this really basic thing where you just have one transcript and you have all the basic tools you would need that are in a, you know, thousand dollars a year, um, piece of qualitative analysis software. And so Brett, I, I, I revisited that. I fired it back up this last week and man, it’s so cool and, and I love it. And maybe one day we can, um, vibe, code a qualitative app, Christina: Yeah. Brett: [01:18:00] That’s awesome. Jeff: scans script. And then I’d like to also just like to also just like rep my new app, uh, from Vibe Coding, which is just in my, on my computer locally that I talked about last time. But I keep creating is this thing I’ve always wanted to be able to just like, pull up a bunch of transcripts that are in markdown files, do a search for a term and have it start popping up, um, results in context. And so I have keep, I keep adding features thanks to, uh, whatever the fuck it is that I use. Um, whatever new. Why can’t I remember? Bolt, bolt not new. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Jeff: I got features now where like I can say, give me 20 words of context on either side, right? Or I can say 10 or I can say 30 I got, it’s a lot of beautiful shit. But now I’ve been able to, when I meet with clients and they’re asking me questions from the interviews in the past I would always have to kind of look at my coded segments. But now I can just do this super quick, like type in a word and I see not only how many times it appears, how many times and how many documents, but I get the contextual sort of results and I can [01:19:00] just quickly kind of answer questions. Which by the way, Brett is how I used Envy Alt in the very, very beginning was I was a reporter and I had all these calls out to people and I didn’t know who was gonna call back when. And so I would keep little lists of questions in there so that I could just super quick type in a keyword and I would get that list of questions for that person. And uh, so it’s that kind of like that thing of like just the super quick, but in context, that’s the thing that’s so helpful to Brett: you use DEVONthink, don’t you? Jeff: I do use Devon Think, yeah. Brett: Have you used DEVONthink four with the AI integration? Jeff: it’s pretty bananas. Yeah. Brett: That’ll, that’ll Jeff: run it in my browser. Brett: in another week, but Jeff: Anyway, that’s all. Thank you, Brett, for vibe coating with me. Long before anyone knew what vibe coating was, we were doing it. Brett: I am happy to be your Gemini. Um, well, Jeff: you as my Claude. [01:20:00] All right. Brett: Thank you guys for showing up. Um, we, our goal, we have a sponsor lined up for the next three weeks after this. So our goal here is to do four weeks in a row. Christina: Woohoo. Jeff: selfie stick every week everybody. Christina: Woohoo. Brett: It is actually, yes. Um, so we will hope to see you all again next week. Thanks for listening. You guys get some sleep. Christina: Get some Jeff: some sleep.

Jeff Guntzel and Christina Warren, along with guest Bryan Guffey, dive deep into a capella groups, vibe coding, and AI tools. Mental health journeys and new therapies, plus tech tips, including the use of granola and the Limitless pendant for recording conversations. This is what happens when Brett’s not around. Sponsor Rogue Amoeba has been making the highest quality audio apps for Mac for over 20 years. Save 20% off any purchase with the code OVERTIRED at [macaudio.com/overtired][2]! Show Links Bryan and One & Only w/ Forte A Cappella northsky.social Bluesky AT Protocol Not a Coder? With A.I., Just Having an Idea Can Be Enough. Bryan’s podcast – workchat.fm Bolt Granola Limitless Pendant Folder Preview (QuickLook Extension) Join the Conversation Merch! Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.

In a hilariously ADHD (or just friendly chat) episode of Overtired, Christina wants everyone to know she’s definitely not an anarchist, while Brett and Jeff dive deep into the world of tech and political activism. Amid laughs and nostalgia, they discuss everything from the pitfalls of memory at work, lock boxes for protests, and the anarchist vs. black bloc debate, all while petting cats and reflecting on TV shows that keep them sane. Tune in for tech tips on carabiner and Kali Linux, and find out why Jeff treasures his time in the car with his sons. It’s chaotic, heartfelt, and genuinely overtired. Sponsor Rogue Amoeba has been making the highest quality audio apps for Mac for over 20 years. Save 20% off any purchase with the code OVERTIRED at macaudio.com/overtired! Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Reunion 00:30 Memory Lapses and Work Challenges 01:56 Utility Guy Story 03:42 Flipper Zero and Productivity Tools 04:57 ADHD Conversations and Podcast Dynamics 07:32 Mental Health Corner: Brett’s Turn 30:29 Sponsor: Rogue Amoeba 32:14 Mental Health Corner: Jeff’s Turn 37:45 News Consumption and Mental Health 43:20 Finding Meaningful Ways to Help 46:53 Personal Protest Experiences 47:04 Transition from Journalism 49:37 Protest Dynamics and Personal Involvement 53:27 Debate on Protest Tactics 01:00:51 Reflections on Anarchism and Activism 01:08:05 TV Shows and Entertainment 01:17:50 grAPPtitude Show Links Ultimate List of Lorem Ipsum Generators Text Blaze Child Jeff interviews Noam Chomsky in the WTO protest era Kali Linux Karabiner Elements Dia Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Undiagnosed Dialog Introduction and Reunion [00:00:00] [00:00:04] Christina: Well, hello again. You’re listening to Overtired and the three of us are back. I’m Christina Warren and I’m joined. Yay. By all three of us, uh, or by my other two co-hosts, Brett Terpstra and Jeff Severns. Guntzel. Hey guys. [00:00:17] Jeff: Hello. [00:00:18] Brett: episodes in a row have we had? Three of us. Is it just two? [00:00:22] Christina: I think this is [00:00:22] Brett: like a bunch, [00:00:24] Christina: I think this is just two. [00:00:26] Jeff: Not enough [00:00:27] Brett: have such, I have such a short memory. Memory Lapses and Work Challenges [00:00:30] Brett: Like as far as I’m concerned, we’ve never missed an episode with all three of us. Like I, I don’t wanna talk too much about work, but that’s bitten me at work. The fact that I don’t remember, like last week, [00:00:43] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I have to, like, I, I, I tend to have a good memory, but sometimes I’ll forget certain things. And so in that regard, I have to like, um. Like write things down, like keep like a running list of like, these are things you need to do, these are things you [00:01:00] have done. Like these are things you didn’t get to do. [00:01:02] Christina: Whatever. [00:01:03] Brett: This is not my gratitude pick, but I’ve started making liberal use of timing the app. Um, ’cause it tracks like what document I have open for how long. And I can, like, I can just, I can drag a whole bunch of different, uh, stuff like, uh, documents, websites, et cetera, into one task. Um, because I am currently in a position where I have to report my, my workday to people and, um, so I can, I can easily scrap together, uh, a daily report and then I, it pops up and asked me what I was doing when I was away from my computer so I can write like, surprise visit from the utilities company that took half an hour. [00:01:55] Brett: Um. Utility Guy Story [00:01:56] Brett: Dude showed up at my house, just pulled into the [00:02:00] driveway and started banging on shit. And I walked out and I was like, Hey, what’s up? And he said that the meter reader had reported tight wires. [00:02:15] Jeff: That sounds like an amazing code in like the Cold War. Cold War, the meter reader has recorded tight wires. Got it. I’ll meet you at the place [00:02:25] Brett: So he was, he was pulling on shit, banging shit. And, [00:02:30] Jeff: to loosen the wires. [00:02:31] Brett: and ultimately he said, and I quote, I’m not gonna fuck with it. Um, [00:02:37] Jeff: just, you just bang on it for a. [00:02:40] Brett: well, he was like seeing like, are these wires tight? Um, and like I, my, my, uh, power comes in. I have like a rooftop, not an antenna, but like a post. That it’s all overhead, uh, power that comes in from the [00:03:00] cables on the street into the top of my house and down in, and that mast, I guess we would call it, um, has started to lean. [00:03:08] Brett: It’s at about a 15 degree angle and it is not currently pulling up any roofing tiles. Um, but he said, you should probably keep an eye on that. And I said, oh, it’s been in that angle since I moved in, so I never gave it a second thought. But yeah, that’s not a great sign. [00:03:29] Jeff: That’s not a great sign. [00:03:30] Christina: No, not at all. Not at all. I just shared this thing in our chat. Um, ma made me think of this not so much about, you know, like the, uh, utility guy, like banging on your door and just being like random and like, I’m just checking stuff out and you’re like, what the fuck? Flipper Zero and Productivity Tools [00:03:42] Christina: Um, but, but in terms of keeping track of time and like busy things, there’s, uh, so you guys are familiar with Flipper Zero, right? [00:03:49] Jeff: Well, what’s funny yes. Is you, you sent this, I looked at it, I’m like, it looks like a flipper. And then saw that it was a flipper device. [00:03:54] Christina: Yeah, so, so, so, so the flip, [00:03:56] Brett: this before. [00:03:57] Christina: So the Flipper Zero people just launched like [00:04:00] two days ago, like this new thing called, um, a busy bar. And, and it’s a little expensive, um, but it’s, you know, fully open and hackable and whatnot, so that’s pretty cool. Um, but it’s basically, it’s, it’s like, um, it’s, they’re calling it like a, a productivity multi-tool with like an LED pixel display. [00:04:18] Christina: And so it can integrate with software both on the desktop where that you write for it. And it includes like an offline API and stuff, JavaScript and Python, so that you can, it can be like an on air sign, um, and, and do shit like that. So like, if you’re recording a podcast, you could have it like outside your office and it would show like, Hey, I’m like. [00:04:33] Christina: Recording, but you can also have like, has like a button on it that you can like press and start and pause to have like a, a pdo, you know, type of thing. But it can also, I guess, probably work with other types of tools where you’re customizing things so you could like, you know, show like how much time you have left of a task or whatever. [00:04:50] Christina: I don’t necessarily know if this would be useful for you, Brett, but I saw this the other day [00:04:54] Brett: it’s a fun toy. [00:04:55] Christina: it’s a fun toy. Yeah. ADHD Conversations and Podcast Dynamics [00:04:57] Brett: For, for the listeners, I [00:05:00] will, um, acknowledge that our topic list this week has zero items on it. We all showed up [00:05:07] Jeff: I don’t think people need to know that it’s not it. [00:05:09] Brett: I, I feel like, I feel like it’s, I feel like it’s fair warning that this is gonna be just an a DHD conversation with zero limitations, zero guidance. We’re just gonna, we’re, we’re gone with the flow. [00:05:23] Jeff: I’m gonna argue with calling in an A DHD conversation ’cause I think it’s just gonna be a chat between friends. [00:05:28] Christina: Yeah, I think so. [00:05:30] Jeff: We don’t have to, we don’t have to diagnose [00:05:32] Brett: it’s like [00:05:33] Christina: I was [00:05:33] Brett: it’s not a gay wedding, it’s just a wedding. [00:05:36] Christina: well, exactly, exactly, because like every conversation with like the three of us, it’s gonna be an a DH ADHD conversation. You should just know that going in. So this is just a convo amongst friends. Like, I don’t feel like we need to, again, like to, to, to Jeff’s point, we don’t need to diagnose this. [00:05:49] Christina: We don’t need to like pathologize it like just a fucking convo. Um. [00:05:54] Jeff: podcast. It will be bullshitting. Welcome to [00:05:56] Brett: So here’s, here’s what makes an A DHD [00:06:00] conversation to me is my partner is autistic and is all about deep dives. Um, they like to, if a topic comes up that they’re interested in, they wanna drill down on it and they want to, like, they could talk about the same thing for the length of the party, like all the way through. [00:06:22] Brett: And for me as an A DHD person, I’m much more surface level. Like I wanna, like a topic reminds me of another topic, reminds me of a personal experience, reminds me of something I wanted to tell somebody. And like I just kind of skim along the surface. And it’s not to say I don’t enjoy like depth to things, but my mode of conversation is much more skimming and I guarantee you. [00:06:52] Brett: That unless Christina goes down a K hole for some reason, which could happen, um, UN unless that [00:07:00] happens, we’re just gonna jump around. It’s gonna be a bunch of topics and to me that’s an A DHD conversation versus maybe a normal or autistic conversation. [00:07:11] Jeff: It’s, it’s such a limited spectrum of options. Like I, I am just gonna say that I am gonna sit in my, I like to talk about a lot of things and whether I have a diagnosis or not, that’s just me talking about a lot of things. But it’s fine. It’s fine, it’s fine. Let’s do it. [00:07:27] Christina: have interest. It’s fine. Um, [00:07:29] Jeff: call this, let’s have it. [00:07:30] Christina: yep. All right. Mental Health Corner: Brett’s Turn [00:07:32] Christina: Let’s start with, uh, with, with Mental Health Corner. Who wants to go first? [00:07:35] Jeff: Hmm. Rock, paper, scissors. [00:07:38] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:07:38] Brett: I can kick it off. [00:07:39] Christina: All right. Kick us off Brett. [00:07:40] Brett: Overall life is really hard right now. Um, I have found solace in, um, so I’ve been writing a, uh, Lauren Ipsum generator that is easily, um, adapted [00:08:00] to different styles. [00:08:02] Brett: Like there used to be like a bacon lipson generator and a hip sum, uh, like a hipster lips sum generator. [00:08:10] Jeff: someone that made one outta Metallica lyrics. [00:08:13] Brett: can do that. I just made a 19 84 1 this morning. Um, it’s super [00:08:19] Jeff: outta transcripts of this podcast. [00:08:21] Christina: Oh my [00:08:21] Brett: you go. [00:08:22] Christina: I was gonna say, I was like, I was, I was like, I’m gonna make a tailor of some gen. I’m sure. I’m sure someone already has, but Yeah, I should, yeah. [00:08:28] Brett: Yeah, like I, I’ve been using chat GPT, I’m, I’m just like, give me 100 plural nouns related to this topic and then like pacing them into the configuration files. And it’s a, it’s a pretty damn good Lauren MSO generator. I’m publishing it as a gem, um, um, that can be used as a library, but also comes with a binary and I’m incorporating it into my MD Lipsom project that outputs [00:09:00] markdown Laura sso. [00:09:01] Brett: Um, but I have found solace in that. That’s like, I wake up at between two and four in the morning and I code on that and it’s like the only comfortable part of my day while I’m coding that I can forget about. Um, I can forget about the last email from my manager, and it is, it’s all I have right now. [00:09:32] Jeff: That’s awesome. You caused me to look up, uh, a list of Lauren Ipsum, uh, generators, and I’d like to just, I’d like to just share a few, if that, if that’s, uh, okay. We’ve got the, um, Obama Ipsum, which, which fills out a paragraph as that is the true genius of America, A faith in simple dreams, an insistence on small miracles. [00:09:52] Jeff: Okay, that’s one. We’ve got a, uh, busi as in Gary Busi, [00:09:56] Christina: in Gary. [00:09:57] Jeff: uh, which is [00:10:00] Busi Ipso. Ah, met. Have you urinated, have you drained your bladder? Are you free? Because if you haven’t, it will only come out later. I’m giving you some information that your bodily fluids may penetrate your clothing fibers without warning. [00:10:10] Jeff: That’s that [00:10:10] Brett: that’s very thematic. [00:10:13] Jeff: Let’s, uh, let’s pick, let’s just pick one more please. Hold on, please. Hold on. Um, let’s see. We got Sagan, uh, we got Heisenberg. Um, we’ve got, uh, tuna journo. Okay. Anyway, you get it. It’s a lot of fun. Uh, I’ll put this list in the, [00:10:30] Brett: So, yeah, and I made this, I made this tool that I’m making, you can add user dictionaries to it. So anything that you can compile, you have to each, there, there are a bunch of text files and each one is a part of speech. You get your articles, you get your, uh, verbs, your plural verbs, your singular verbs, et cetera. [00:10:55] Brett: And, um, and you just, you fill in all of those [00:11:00] files and you’ve created a dictionary that then you can call by its directory name and. This is outside of the GEM Configuration directory, so it’s completely static for the user [00:11:14] Jeff: Can I. [00:11:15] Brett: anyone who makes a good, a good one. I’ll add to the default repo [00:11:21] Jeff: So the question is what makes, uh, an app cross the line into being a Brett turp app? And the answer is, it starts with the sentence I made it so you can add your own blank. [00:11:33] Brett: that is, that is a principle I learned from TechMate up until I switched to Mac and started using TechMate. I had never. Really experienced the idea of extensibility. I had used Home Seer and I had developed like visual basic scripts for home automation, and that was, that was technically a extensibility, but this idea that you could [00:12:00] actually change the way an app functions and add your own features to an app blew me away. [00:12:06] Brett: Um, like a ogar became my hero because like his whole focus was extensibility. It was the giving power to his, admittedly very technical user base. But [00:12:21] Christina: Right. [00:12:22] Brett: I just got a review on set about basically how it was too complicated to configure, marked and set up. Set only allows a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Um, so it, it was a thumbs down. [00:12:40] Brett: Um, and he, dude, in this review, he listed at least four bugs that I wish he had reported through the bug tracker, but they were admittedly real bugs, so I’m not mad at him. [00:12:56] Christina: Well, no, I mean, and honestly, I’m sorry. We can’t [00:13:00] expect users to go through official bug reporting channels. Like, unless you make it super fucking easy. Like where people know, like as part of onboarding where a bug [00:13:08] Brett: when you’re on Set App or the Mac App store, it just, it isn’t easy [00:13:13] Christina: No, it’s not. No, it’s not. And, and frankly, like book reporting is a hard problem to solve and like you, and you [00:13:19] Brett: If you go to [00:13:20] Christina: you can. [00:13:21] Brett: if you go to the help menu and Mark, there’s a submit a, uh, submit an issue item that will take you directly to the ticket site. But yeah, that’s not obvious to your average end user, so yeah, I get it. The most common review I get on Set App is, um, when I create a new file, it’s just a blank page and I can’t type into it, even though the Descript is very clearly, clearly this is a previewer, not an editor, [00:13:56] Christina: Right, right. Well, but the [00:13:58] Brett: in the title [00:14:00] of [00:14:00] Christina: no, and, and, and I, and, and you’re not wrong, but you know, people don’t read. It might have to be one of those things that, like, even as a popup, like if you’re getting enough of that, even on the setup version where you can say, you know, note [00:14:13] Brett: Yeah, there’s a whole splash intro screen. There’s a, there’s like a whole first time you launch it, it explains all of this. These people are clearly just canceling out of the splash intro screen. And then trying to do what they, for some reason, assume it should do because they saw the word markdown in it and just plus it’s set up. [00:14:37] Brett: You didn’t pay for this shit, like, not directly. Anyway. [00:14:42] Christina: Yeah. I mean, never underestimate how entitled people are about stuff, right? Because in their mind they’re like, well, I pay for setup and everything I get on this should be valuable, otherwise I’m gonna cancel my, you know what I mean? Like, [00:14:53] Brett: I don’t, I don’t hate that idea. I, I think setup should be a curated set of [00:15:00] apps that should work and do what they say. You just should read what they say they do. If, and this, this last review that I’m talking about, he clearly knew what Mark did. And like I said, I’m not mad at him. He, [00:15:16] Christina: No, he reported a bunch of bugs, which are good. Yeah. [00:15:18] Brett: Um, and it’s useful information. Uh, it does bum me out to get negative reviews in general, but yeah, as far as negative reviews go, this one was legit. [00:15:30] Christina: Are you able to, um, uh, respond and at least be like, thank, thank you for the, you know, the, the, the, the bug reports. Um, I’d like to. [00:15:39] Brett: I always wait a day before I respond to a negative review just so I can like, absorb and like what I’m telling you right now is what I should reply with. Um, when I first got the review, my response was, yeah, it’s a complicated app. Of course it’s complex to set [00:16:00] up. [00:16:00] Jeff: Is this a good time to talk about your text expander expansion for, for responding to people who complain about the app? [00:16:06] Brett: Yeah, I feel like this, we have no topics. This whole thing could be one weird long mental health corner. I [00:16:13] Jeff: the story. Tell the story of that. I don’t know if that’s been talked about in a long time [00:16:16] Brett: Wait, which one? [00:16:17] Jeff: you used to have a text expander snippet when you had to respond to somebody writing you and being mean about the app that I think you typed like fuck right off and then it expanded to a very like, diplomatic response. [00:16:29] Jeff: I’m not sure [00:16:30] Brett: Yeah. I don’t have that one anymore. I’ve lost it, but yeah, uh, I can, I had it so that I could type my instantaneous reaction and it would expand to you. Thank you for your feedback, [00:16:45] Jeff: it’s a really, I mean that’s like a kind of a powerful move. [00:16:49] Christina: Honestly, I was gonna say, like, I was gonna say like, so I, I can’t use Text Expander, um, at, at work, but I, I could probably use like the, the built-in, um, macros [00:17:00] thing, or I could find another, you know, macro tool to, to, to use. Um, we just can’t use other people cloud stuff. Um, on, on a [00:17:08] Jeff: can use a Mac. [00:17:09] Christina: Yes, yes. Can use a Mac, but it’s just third party. [00:17:13] Brett: a Chrome pc, [00:17:14] Jeff: Well, Chromebook. [00:17:15] Christina: no. They, they, I mean, I, I mean they, they would like that I’m sure, but no, I, I was able to get a a, an M four, um, pro with 48 gigs of ram, um, only, um, 16 inch only, um, five 12 SSD, so that’s, you know, uh, [00:17:32] Brett: My work computer is a 256 gigabyte Intel 12 inch MacBook Pro. Yeah. [00:17:40] Jeff: Wow. Yeah. [00:17:43] Christina: Um, yeah, [00:17:45] Brett: Christina, you were saying you couldn’t use text [00:17:48] Christina: Yeah, I couldn’t use, but I could use something similar and No, but that, that could be like a useful thing where like sometimes you see stuff and you’re like, okay, I’m just gonna type in like my default reaction and it’ll, you know, expand to something nicer. [00:18:00] Like, um, and, and that would be useful in, in certain like, actually plenty of non-work scenarios too. [00:18:07] Christina: Like, I, I, I like that idea of being like, okay, go fuck yourself, can become I’m here. Your feedback and you know, I’ll take this [00:18:15] Brett: I, uh, I mentioned this last episode, um, but I shadowed this person who currently administers the AI and data science blog and no longer, I now administer the AI and data science blog, and they had a Confluence page with all of their response snippets, [00:18:41] Christina: yes, [00:18:41] Brett: and it takes, like, it takes that page, I’m not kidding, 20 to 30 seconds to load. [00:18:49] Brett: So you have to go to your bookmark. You wait 20 to 30 seconds, and then you manually copy the response out of the page, add it to [00:19:00] Wrike, which also takes 20 to 30 [00:19:02] Jeff: But gives you the time you need to breathe and settle down. [00:19:07] Christina: Yeah. Cc? [00:19:09] Brett: and then you paste it, and then you edit it. But with I, I copied that entire page into text. Expender [00:19:15] Christina: Yep. [00:19:16] Brett: added a bunch of fill-ins so that I could modify, like, based on the context of the reply. And I feel like this is exactly what text expander and text plays were made for is customer service replies, [00:19:32] Christina: Oh, no, totally. [00:19:34] Brett: what I’m doing. [00:19:35] Christina: No. No, totally. I mean, and I think that’s why like text expander, like pivoted, like to the enterprise market and, and some of those other, you know, things have too because, and, and consumers always get pissed off about that ’cause they’re like, what do I have to pay for a subscription and why do I have to do this and that? [00:19:48] Christina: And you’re like, I, I mean, I get it. Um, and, and there are, um, like there’s, um, who, who makes it text? Uh, it’s not text place. It’s, uh, [00:19:56] Brett: Um, type ator. [00:19:57] Christina: type in inter Yeah. Type it, which, um, if [00:20:00] I were going to use one, probably would be the one that I would be able to use at work. Like I, because I could make that work locally. [00:20:05] Brett: no, there’s no cloud. [00:20:07] Christina: Right. And so, and, and I have a license for it and it’s a great app. Um, also it’s lower resources, which sometimes matters like, it doesn’t matter like on my stuff, but it is lower resources. But like text expander. Yeah, you’re exactly right. Like for a customer service scenario where you have like a kind of a internal shared set of snippets that people can edit or just like take definition of an add to, like, you can imagine that if you’re in a call center or something, you have to have a tool like that, you know, in your responses. [00:20:38] Christina: Well, who am I kidding? Is all about to be AI soon, but like, assuming you still have a call center staffed by, you know, pseudo humans. Like this is totally, whether you’re doing email responses or chat or tickets or whatever, like if you know that you have, you know, the, the top like, like 30 or 50 most, you know, common things like having [00:21:00] like that library of stuff that you can just auto insert, you know, with a few keys has to be very useful. [00:21:07] Brett: I would like to take this opportunity to say that Text Blaze is a very good product and is very low resource. Um, I. Like, it doesn’t even show up on my activity monitor. It’s way down at the bottom and it has a few, I’ve like, it can’t expand after Whitespace the way text expander can, which has taken a lot of getting used to and it can’t run scripts, which is why I have been developing so many different APIs, like the Markdown Lipsom, API, because if I wanna, if I wanna alarm Ipso snippet, that’s truly dynamic. [00:21:48] Brett: I need, it can, it can pull from a web API, but it can’t run a script locally. So I just build web [00:21:56] Christina: So you, so you just, okay, so you’re, so basically [00:21:58] Brett: which is not accessible to [00:22:00] every user. [00:22:01] Christina: not at all. Not at all. Because most, most, most users are gonna be like, well, where am I hosting this? Or where is this being done? Or Do I have these API keys in my environment? Yeah. Um, but like, yeah. ’cause at that point, yeah. Um, is, is that like a design decision? [00:22:13] Christina: Do you know, from their like perspective or? [00:22:17] Brett: I think it’s just a shortcoming. Maybe they’ll get to it eventually. Um, I, the, the expand after spaces thing, I think is just a shortsighted, [00:22:29] Christina: Yeah. [00:22:29] Brett: um, [00:22:30] Christina: That seems like a [00:22:31] Brett: design. I think it seems like a design decision, but I think it was shortsighted, whatever it [00:22:37] Jeff: Is there anything about it that you would say it does, that text expander doesn’t, that you like? [00:22:45] Brett: Um, I had an answer to this question previously, but like when I, so Text Expander sponsored my blog for like a decade and, and I would [00:23:00] never use anything other than text Expander because they were so supportive of my work. Um, but then like Greg was. Greg left, retired, left the company, and when they reevaluated all their sponsorships, I didn’t make the cut and I don’t think they’re doing many sponsorships [00:23:21] Christina: No, no, I, no, I, I, I think, yeah. ’cause yeah, they used to, you know, sponsor like my podcast back in the day and things like that too. Like, and it, [00:23:28] Brett: then I started, yeah, I started exploring like other topics and a former employee of Text Expander was now working for Text Blaze and he got me in with a free, like enterprise level account. And at that time I felt it was important to let my readers know why I was even trying out text Blaze after a decade of evangelizing text expander. [00:23:58] Brett: And I had all the [00:24:00] reasons, but I’ve forgotten them. [00:24:03] Christina: Yeah, I mean, I think the resource thing is probably a good one. Like, again, like it’s not, it’s not a problem for a lot of people. I think the fact that, um, yeah, I mean, similar to me, like, like I use, well, so, and actually, you know what I could use ’cause we, ’cause people have it set up. What I could use at work and what I should use at work is, uh, Alfred, um, just, just set up Alfred, um, stuff for, for text expansion. [00:24:26] Christina: Right? [00:24:26] Brett: Yeah, well, launch Bar has [00:24:28] Christina: launch part does too. Yeah. Launch [00:24:30] Brett: or snippets anyway. [00:24:31] Christina: Exactly. And, and, and, um, uh, like Alfred’s allowed, um, Raycast is allowed, albeit not with the AI stuff. Um, [00:24:40] Brett: about keyboard Maestro, which can expand based on regular expressions. [00:24:44] Christina: Oh yeah. All that stuff is allowed. The, the, the only thing. [00:24:46] Jeff: keyboard. [00:24:47] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. The only, the only thing that is, is kind of like band at work is like if it’s, you know, relying on kind of like a, a, a third party cloud. [00:24:54] Christina: And even then, like, it’s not as if they, so the way I have mine configured it so that I is, is [00:25:00] that I have an exception because I’m a package managed user, which means that I use home brew. So I don’t have to like, go through this process of getting apps approved or not approved, like whether they’re allowed to run in your system or not. [00:25:11] Christina: And it, and it’s not that heavyweight of a process in comparison to how it could be, like, they actually do it pretty well, but they take security seriously. And like, I don’t wanna ever have anything that would be work related, stored in any cloud that is not like the corporate cloud that we use. Right. [00:25:27] Christina: Like, so, so like obsidian is allowed to be used, but you can’t use it. Um, like you can’t sync with your mobile device unless you have like a a, a [00:25:37] Brett: What about like, [00:25:38] Christina: device. [00:25:39] Brett: oh, you could use Google Drive to [00:25:41] Christina: Yes, yes. But it would have to be corporate drive. [00:25:44] Brett: Yeah, [00:25:45] Christina: Which, which the problem with that is, is that corporate drive then, like, I, I couldn’t use it on any other computer, but I could use it like, just on [00:25:52] Brett: what’s the point then? [00:25:54] Christina: Right. [00:25:54] Christina: Right, exactly. So, well, I mean, the point would be, I guess that if, if, if I needed to set up a new computer or if I used [00:26:00] multiple machines, right. So, which, which, which I don’t. So, but, but again, that, this kind of goes back to like, what’s the point? So like, you know, but, but at GitHub we didn’t have the same level of restrictions. [00:26:11] Christina: Um, because I mean, I think they would’ve liked to, they’re just the IT team’s not that big and, you know, they’re not gonna have the resources to, to be able to put that stuff in place. Um, but yeah, but I used, I used Ator, frankly, more for the resource usage stuff than kind of anything. Because if I had a lot of stuff running, like I did note that, you know, and I, I pay for tax expander. [00:26:33] Christina: I still do out of kind of loyalty. But, you know, it, it, it can, it, it can, um. Be kind of a resource hog where it’s like type data. Not having that wasn’t an issue. And then I, and then with the add additional thing, I’m like, okay, I know that I’m never going to have this, you know, um, I’m not syncing across multiple machines and I, I don’t need a cloud aspect. [00:26:57] Brett: you know, so, okay [00:27:00] vs. Code is a resource hog, but what shocked me last time my computer froze up. Um, and this is a computer with 128 gigabytes of Ram and it froze. And I got the, the force quit dialogue that listed all of the apps that were Resource hogs, Flo Todo, which I used to run like a Facebook SSBA single slate browser. [00:27:28] Brett: Um, so I just have a single Facebook app that is sandbox from everything else, and it was taking up 128 gigabytes of Ram. [00:27:39] Christina: So, so clearly has a bug. Yeah. [00:27:41] Brett: It has a leak, and it was ob, it was paging out, and it, it locked up my system. So negative for Flo Tado. [00:27:51] Jeff: That’s crazy. [00:27:52] Christina: Yeah. That is sense. I’ve, when that happens, I always, when we’re talking about like bug reports and like I try to be like the good [00:28:00] user who’s like, okay, if I notice that that this has happened, like yeah, there’s clearly a memory leak or there’s some sort of other thing going on if this is happening. And I usually try to report it and sometimes it gets responses and sometimes it doesn’t. [00:28:11] Christina: But Yeah, [00:28:12] Brett: I will, I will report it to Flo Tado, even though I’m not sure that app is actively, uh, in development right now, [00:28:21] Christina: Yeah, that’s always the hard thing about stuff like that. Yeah. Um, and um, yeah, um, SSBs are actually the hard thing at Google because obviously we can create progressive web apps. But we can’t, at least for work resources, um, for, for non-work resources, you can use whatever browser you want. And some people who do testing, which I don’t, can do testing on other browsers. [00:28:43] Christina: Right. If like that’s what their job is. But like, work stuff can only be used in Chrome, like period [00:28:50] Brett: Are you allowed to add extensions to Chrome? [00:28:53] Christina: Yes, yes. Now there are some that are going to be like, that are like unilaterally banned that they like, you know, full [00:29:00] on like block, but that’s few and far between. And then they do have like a curated Chrome store. [00:29:07] Christina: Stuff that maybe they’ve altered. Right? So there might be like, like versions, like people maintain forks. Sometimes it’s part of their job. Sometimes it’s just people wanting to do it because they’re, you know, committed to it, who will maintain a fork of a popular Chrome extension internally only. Right. [00:29:22] Christina: So that it doesn’t exfiltrate anything. Yeah, no, I mean, the, it, it’s weird ’cause like I, I go through this process of being both frustrated sometimes by the, the, the barriers that are set up, even though I understand why they are, and also being insanely impressed at like how much infra, like is internally built up. [00:29:42] Christina: Like, the fact that like so much, so many internal tools exist, or, or, you know, whether they’re recreations of things that exist elsewhere or not, is, I’ve never seen anything like it, like in, at least in terms of competence, like Microsoft. For has like internal versions of a lot of stuff, but [00:30:00] most of it is very similar to the, the stuff that they sell externally. [00:30:04] Christina: Um, and, and GitHub, um, obviously develops GitHub on GitHub but uses a lot of third party tools. Google like, does a tremendous amount of stuff all internally and sometimes they, there are like external versions and sometimes there’s not, and you’re just like, oh shit. Like, a lot of people way smarter than me work at this place and maintain [00:30:26] Brett: that’s so much cooler than working at Oracle. Sponsor: Rogue Amoeba [00:30:29] Brett: This episode is sponsored by one of our favorite developers, RBA makers of powerful audio software for the Mac. They’ve been developing audio focus apps for the Mac for over 20 years, going all the way back to OS. So Harold, Chris, Harold corrected me. [00:30:49] Brett: I always say iOS apparently, and this time I’m going to get it right, going all the way back to OS 10.2, which is Jaguar, since [00:31:00] it’s been a while. Their latest versions make it a snap to get started with. No need to restart your Mac. I personally love Sound Source and loop back and use them all the time. [00:31:10] Brett: Sound Source puts per app audio controls, including the ability to apply effects right in your menu bar and Loop Back is an amazing tool for routing audio signals and working with and multiple audio devices. And I would be remiss not to praise Audio Hijack the all purpose tool for recording and routing audio on [00:31:32] Jeff: All praise. All praise. Audio hijack. [00:31:36] Brett: It can do just about anything with application audio or microphone input and has a ton of automation possibilities. Learn more about all of Rogue Amiga software@macaudio.com slash Overtired. That’s mac audio.com/ Overtired. Listeners of Overtired can save 20% off any [00:32:00] purchase through the end of May with the coupon code Overtired. [00:32:04] Brett: Just go to mac audio.com/ Overtired and use the coupon code Overtired. [00:32:11] Jeff: Yes, you should. [00:32:12] Christina: Hell yeah. Mental Health Corner: Jeff’s Turn [00:32:14] Brett: Fucking A. All right, so we’re half an hour in and we’re still on what is technically my mental health corner. So how are you guys doing? [00:32:25] Christina: Jeff, go ahead. [00:32:26] Jeff: abdicating your mental health corner? Is that what we call it? Abdicating? Um, I’m doing good. It’s, you know, it’s sunny and warm. It, it makes everything go away for a minute. Um, but there isn’t too much to go away. Uh, yeah, I’m doing, I’m doing well. I’m, I had a really nice, I feel like I always report this when it happens, but I had a nice trip. [00:32:46] Jeff: It took my youngest son to spend a couple days alone with his older brother at college. Uh, it got to and stay in his dorm ’cause there was an empty bed there and stuff. And so it was really, it was really cool to be able to do that. And he went to some classes and [00:33:00] they went and saw a movie and hung out and who knows what else. [00:33:03] Jeff: I mean, I actually don’t think there was much else, but it’s not my business anyhow. Um, so it was really sweet. Uh, and, and just nice to have that time. My, you know, it’s like an 11 hour drive to where my son goes to college and I’ve found that those are just the best. Times with my kids because you’re not, it’s nothing’s forced. [00:33:24] Jeff: You’re not asking them to answer a question at the end of the day that, you know, they just don’t wanna talk about school. Whatever it is. It’s like you can just sit there. I always let them DJ the whole 11 hours, like, and you can just kind of sit there and like let things come up. And I find that to be an amazing way to just be with either of them. [00:33:42] Jeff: So that’s always just like, I just feel really good after that and kind of carry that with me. Um, other thing I, I just realized this is so dumb, but. I don’t read ever. Like, I mean I don’t read books ever. I love to read books, but I just cannot, I can’t read ’em when I’m laying down in bed ’cause I fall asleep right [00:34:00] away. [00:34:00] Jeff: And I had a book club, we had this book club for a while. I’ve probably talked about. That was kind of amazing ’cause the whole premise was to read the books that like you kind of were interested in that you feel like if it was 1940, uh, you would’ve read it in high school. But, um. But you don’t have any reason to read it. [00:34:16] Jeff: It’s how we read, like War and Peace. It’s how I read Donkey Hte, all these books, Moby, Dick, whatever. Um, and uh, and it was an amazing thing, but it just kind of fell apart for reasons that groups fall apart. Um, but this morning I woke up and I’m like, obviously been reading so much news and everything, all the obvious stuff that we’re all going through and, and how much space it takes up in our head. [00:34:36] Jeff: And I read, I don’t, nobody has to read, uh, Donte, but I highly recommend reading the prologue because it’s fucking amazing. Um, and so I just read the prologue ’cause I get a kick out of it. And then like the very beginning of the setup of Donte, which is also hilarious. Um, and it was not only delightful to read and laugh at something that definitely had nothing to do with this moment. [00:34:58] Jeff: I mean, you can make stretches and [00:35:00] metaphors or whatever, but, um, but what happened was then I, you know, I stopped reading and I started my day. I took my kid to work like whatever. But like, I. My head was filled with the book, like my head was not filled with the tariffs and everything else. And that was like the first time for a long time. [00:35:16] Jeff: Like I just had like echoes of impressions from just this very short bit I read this morning and I was like, huh, this, I think I just may have discovered an important, uh, durability tool for me, um, uh, in this, in this day. So that was kind of, that was really nice. Felt really good. Felt like an unburdening. [00:35:35] Jeff: Yeah. ’cause I can’t, I was like, ah, I’m not gonna even look at the news for a couple days, which I think is a good thing to do. I don’t think there’s any reason not to look at the news for a couple days. You’re not a bad advocate, you’re not a bad carer about the rights of people in the world. You’re not a bad anything. [00:35:49] Jeff: It’s just something you need to do. And I often can’t do it. Not in a, I’m not an obsessive news reader, but like I do, well I guess, I mean, like the way I read news is [00:36:00] I do open the New York Times app a few times a day and I tell. My dingus to tell me the news. Even sometimes, even though sometimes it means she tells me about the history of the juice. [00:36:09] Christina: right. [00:36:10] Jeff: I do ask her to tell me the news a few days, uh, a few times a day, but I’m not like crazy obsessive about it. But man, it’s a constant flow. It’s like constant, constantly flowing through my, my bloodstream. So anyway, that was, uh, it was a funny revelation to have, but it’s also just a very, like, nowadays revelation to have. [00:36:28] Jeff: And so again, I will say, read the prologue, Don Kte, if you love novels, like at all, if you love reading fiction, like you have never read a prologue and you won’t believe that this was written in like the fucking 16 hundreds or whatever is the 17 hours. I forget. So that was, that was nice. That, and the sun today has got me feeling pretty good. [00:36:49] Christina: I love [00:36:49] Brett: Jeff, do, do you get, uh, do you subscribe to Means tv? [00:36:54] Jeff: I don’t know what that is. [00:36:55] Brett: It’s a, we’ll call it an anti-capitalist network. [00:36:59] Jeff: Okay. [00:36:59] Brett: [00:37:00] Um, they just added some anarchist content, but it’s mostly socialist content. Um, and they have a means daily news. That is, if you wanna get, like, news that includes, like, successes in labor movements, you know, instead of just like what the tariffs are gonna do to the economy. [00:37:25] Brett: Um, it’s a, it’s a fun place to get news. [00:37:27] Jeff: you’re one of these guys that likes good news. See, I’m not even, I’m not attracted, I’m not even attracted to good news. I can’t even say [00:37:35] Christina: I’m, I’m, I’m exactly like you Jeff. Like, it, it, it, it doesn’t like, I don’t actually like, in some ways, like, it’s cool if it’s there, but like, I don’t want to curate that way personally. News Consumption and Mental Health [00:37:45] Christina: Like, I like my, my news addiction and it’s gotten a lot better and I’ve had to do it because it’s been, and sorry if I took over your mental health corner, um, uh, is that like, for my own mental health, I have to, like, I’ve had to disconnect and [00:38:00] disengage with news and, um, even though I haven’t been a reporter, uh, as my full-time job for a long time now, like, it, it took years and years. [00:38:10] Christina: Like it, I, I’ve, I’ve said this on the p before, like it was, um, it was January 6th. That was like the moment that kind of broke me because it was, I realized one of the first big, like. Massive, like mass casualty, kind of like real time, like scenario, well, not mass casualty, but like, you know what I mean? [00:38:28] Christina: Like, like one of those like, like felt at the time, like world changing [00:38:32] Jeff: There were things that died that day. [00:38:34] Christina: Right, right. Exactly. [00:38:36] Jeff: and a lot of things died. [00:38:37] Christina: right. And, and I had to process it like not a reporter, which was really fucked for me because I, it, it, it, you know, I had become so desensitized to having to process that sort of stuff in, in real time. [00:38:53] Christina: And you think about it as, okay, what are the stories that we’re assigning? What angles are we doing? How are we getting the news [00:39:00] out? What are the important facts? What is real, what is not, what is gossip? Like you, you just, you handle the, the trauma frankly, of it all in a different way. And, and I had to like process it like a regular person and, and that really fucked me. [00:39:13] Christina: But it was also kind of a good reminder for me to be like, okay, since this is not the sort of stuff that you’d live with day in and day out anymore. You don’t have to be part of this all the time. And I know that for you it’s different because sometimes you have to be connected to stuff for your job and you [00:39:29] Jeff: I don’t anymore. [00:39:31] Christina: right? [00:39:31] Christina: Well, but, but, but you have, but you know what I mean, but like, even some of your research, right? There might be things you’re like, okay, I need to be plugged in on this. And so I have to be aware. And, um, and, and certainly from my job now, like I need to be plugged in with like AI announcements and stuff. [00:39:44] Christina: And like, that can obviously go into lots of complicated, you know, like different ways to process things. But it’s not the same as like the world is ending, you know what I mean? Or, or, or, or democracies and shambles and like the terrible stuff [00:40:00] that’s happening around us. And so for my own, like mental health, I fully agree with you. [00:40:05] Christina: Like, it doesn’t make you a bad person, doesn’t make you anything. If you’re like, you know what? I don’t wanna fucking look at this right [00:40:11] Jeff: Because you’re not helping anybody by reading the news. There are things you can do out of having read the news that you can do to help people. It actually doesn’t help anybody that you’re reading the news, [00:40:18] Christina: Well, and the thing is, is I think that there’s a difference, right? Like there’s a difference between being like obstinate and willfully, like, uh, refusing to acknowledge what’s happening around you and refusing to do it and actively engaging in it, right? Like, like, like, like I feel like it’s a problem if you just, you know, put your fingers in your ears and you’re like, I don’t see it. [00:40:41] Christina: I don’t know it, it’s not happening, [00:40:43] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [00:40:43] Christina: right? Like, I feel like that can actually be problematic. And, and, and if people need to do that for short term periods, you know, you do. You. But I feel like long term that is actually a problem. People don’t acknowledge the reality around them and, and, and the suffering and, and the bad things. [00:40:57] Christina: Like I feel like that’s a problem. But there’s a difference [00:41:00] between being like, I know how bad things are and I need to actively read every New York Times, or Wall Street Journal, or Bloomberg or whatever, headline, right? Like [00:41:08] Brett: there’s the, it’s possible to be aware of all the bad things that are happening without dwelling on it in an obsessive way. [00:41:18] Christina: Totally, totally. And, and like this is one of the reasons why, like, I’m not really posting about politics or anything else anymore on social media. And, and I think some people think that it’s because like, you know, it’s directives from bosses or whatever. No, that’s not at, although I’m sure that they would prefer that I not speak about political things. [00:41:35] Christina: Right. And fair enough. But like, that’s not what it is. It’s that it’s frankly that at this stage of the things that are happening, like I’ve had kind of a, a come to Jesus moment with myself where I’m like, my opinion doesn’t matter and I’m not helping anybody by like, I know what I mean. Like in some cases it does, I look back at like my, my past actions and I don’t regret them or anything, but I’m like, okay, [00:42:00] what were you accomplishing? [00:42:01] Christina: And, and, and at a certain point it does sometimes feel like, and people again, like other people can. Process and, and can comment and can do whatever they want, however they wanna do it. And I won’t judge that. Like I, I really do my best not to judge that. But like for me, it’s just kind of a thing where I’m like, okay, like what am I accomplishing by commenting and continuing to reify how bad this shit is? [00:42:23] Christina: Like, is this making me feel any better? Is this doing anything for me? And if it is great, right? For some people, like that could be a way of getting through some of the trauma and getting through some of the stuff would just be to talk about how bad it is. And I respect that. I just feel like, you know, we, we’ve gone through a really difficult last eight years and now things are just the point where I’m like, I don’t have it in me to do it anymore. [00:42:50] Christina: I just don’t. [00:42:52] Jeff: yeah. Yeah. I feel, I think a lot about like, um, seasons in life too. Like our lives have seasons, like they [00:43:00] have long seasons, but then there are little short seasons and like, I often think, I can’t help but think back to like a season of my life where I was willing to get like shot or blown up and almost did for my convictions and in order to care about a thing, an issue, a people, whatever. [00:43:15] Jeff: And I think that that was great. And I’m, I’m proud of myself for having, I’m proud of younger me for having done that. Finding Meaningful Ways to Help [00:43:20] Jeff: But like what I’ve settled into as an old man in this moment, and I learned this from the George Floyd uprising or, or sort of encoded it into my brain is like, I am very comfortable knowing that. [00:43:35] Jeff: I will see an opportunity at some point for a way I can help and I will help. And, and it may be, it may take me longer than other people. It may take me longer than some people think it should. But there is no too long because at some point you come into the game and the people that came in the first wave have burned out. [00:43:53] Jeff: And you do need a second wave. You do need new people. You always need people. And, and if I, I mean, if I waited [00:44:00] until I was 72 to do something meaningful again, um, will have, it will be meaningful that I’ve done it. And, and like one of the things I, I still think back to a lot, um, is like, so during the uprisings, like the first night. [00:44:16] Jeff: When everyone was outside the police precinct, the one that ultimately burned down and was, was abandoned. Um, I went out there ’cause I felt like I had to, and it was fucking scary. Like everything was off balance. Like, um, you know, everybody was, everybody on both sides was. Behaving in a way, and this isn’t a judgment, this is just what happens to humans when something is that elevated. [00:44:40] Jeff: Because what happened was so incredibly fucked. Um, everybody was just, it was, you know, it’s one of those things like any protest, and especially once the National Guard was here, the idea you, you, you look and see is a million protesters and a and a hundred, you know, national Guard. But actually what’s happening here, even if it’s basically [00:45:00] under control, is, is the line between chaos and, and great harm And whatever state you’re looking at now is just one person’s decision. [00:45:08] Jeff: And that decision could be, I threw a bottle and instead of hitting a, an officer’s. Or a National guards person’s helmet, it hit their face. And that national guards person then reacted as however they were always gonna react when they got their face hit right with a, with a bottle or whatever, like it was, that it’s that fine of a line. [00:45:25] Jeff: It’s true for things going well too, right? Like, it’s true for things that inspire movements, whatever. It’s often one person’s decision. It’s, it’s in the context of a movement and, and all these things, but it’s often one person makes one little decision. You may never know what that person was, who that person was, or what that decision was. [00:45:42] Jeff: Anyway, I, in all of that and that chaos, and it was scary. And, and you know, you’d have the windows open and you’d smell the smoke and hear the, you know, non-lethal rounds that, you know, would take people’s eyes out but wouldn’t kill them. Um, I got a call from a friend who was working as a medic [00:46:00] at the protests every night, and she knew I had a workshop. [00:46:04] Jeff: And she said, Hey, do you have respirators? And I was like, do I? And, and so what she did is on her way down to meet up with the medics before that night’s stuff really ramped up. She came over and like it was James Bond movie with the guy that has all the special weapons. I had laid out every kind of respirator on a picnic table. [00:46:21] Jeff: And she came by and was able to go, this one, this one, this one. And then she brought it down and they were tear gassing the shit out of people at this point. She brought it down and, and a handful of medics had had these respirators and were able to help because someone knew to ask me. I knew that that was an opportunity in a way I could help. [00:46:37] Jeff: And it felt really meaningful. And I think that in these times it can be so easy to beat yourself up ’cause you’re not doing this or that or to judge actions, whatever it is. But like. The only way movements or change happens is everyone kind of finds their place. Personal Protest Experiences [00:46:53] Jeff: And we’ve talked about this a million times. [00:46:55] Jeff: For me, the place was never holding a sign. I was at protest, but I could never hold a sign. I just [00:47:00] couldn’t do it. I could be a body there. I can’t hold a sign. I’m too much like, well, that just doesn’t say everything. Transition from Journalism [00:47:04] Jeff: I mean, well, you know, I, I just don’t know, not to mention copy editing signs, but, um, but like, the last thing I’ll say about this, ’cause it was something you, you triggered for me, Christina, when you were talking about ha like either having to, or also being able to process something not as a journalist, I still, there’s such a crystal clear point at which I knew I was not a journalist anymore. [00:47:27] Jeff: And it’s true ’cause I haven’t been one since then, but it was awesome. So I had been laid off from public radio and public radio is like so funny ’cause it’s so clearly like liberal and left leaning. But it, it works so hard to just, even in how voices are to just seem very reasonable, whatever else. And I always like, I both appreciate that and it drives me fucking crazy. [00:47:47] Jeff: Um. Yeah, it mostly drives me crazy. But, um, but anyway, there was a march commemorating the, the murder of Philando Castile here who [00:47:57] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:47:57] Jeff: by a police officer. Um, [00:48:00] and this march was destined to make its way down a entrance ramp to highway 94 and, and to shut it down. And I was there. This was still the point at which when I attended protests, I put a long skinny notebook in my back pocket just ’cause I don’t know why, like, partly I just, that helped me. [00:48:15] Jeff: ’cause I would take, I would just take, write things down for myself ’cause it’s how I’ve always been. But also sometimes I knew I was going to see other journalists. I saw what the hell. Um, but this time I just had one because I, I wanted to be able to document ’cause those are great. No, those are great notebooks to put in your hand and document. [00:48:30] Jeff: And, uh, and I’m walking and, and it becomes clear. People are starting to go down to 94 and I’m not really a, like lead the way and shut down the freeway guy, but I totally will go and watch but stand in the middle and recognize that I’m both a witness and a participant in that sense. And so. The whole march starts, like veering down the, the entrance ramp and, and at the, at, just at like the sort of pivot point where it’s very clear who’s going down and who’s not. [00:48:56] Jeff: I run into two journalists I know, and one of them had, had never met me. [00:49:00] And, and the one goes, Hey Jeff. And then he says the other one, Hey, this is Jeff ler. You know, he used to work for NPR and all these say whatever the guy’s like, oh, I’ve always wanted to meet you. And they go, what are you doing here? [00:49:09] Jeff: And I was like, just checking it out. And I said, and I just kind of proceeded down to 94 and participated in the shutdown of the freeway. And, uh, and that felt amazing. I was just like, nah, just checking it out. And, uh, but, but I’m also walking down here as you can see, and I have no press pass. So I was like, all right, I’m not a journalist anymore. [00:49:27] Jeff: And that’s awesome. Not that I couldn’t still be a journalist, I wanna be really clear about that. But like, that was just like a, I think I wanna be on the other side of this now. [00:49:35] Christina: Which honestly is kind of freeing in a sense. Protest Dynamics and Personal Involvement [00:49:37] Christina: Like, I don’t know, like what the, what the, um, like rules and requirements were for the places you worked, but that was always a really hard thing for me. Like I remember. Um, uh, covering like some of the, um, like the protests like, uh, you know, in, in, in 2015 and stuff. [00:49:52] Christina: And like, I had to be really careful. Like, you know, I had like, I, I would cover them and, but I had to be removed in a [00:50:00] certain sense. Right. And obviously you can’t be, like, I would be, you know, shouting along with folks and like, if I needed to make an argument, I could that like, well I need to fit in so that, you know, people don’t like look at you weird or whatever, you know, and you’re documenting things in like a, you know, reasonable way. [00:50:14] Christina: And, you know, you go and you like have like the lawyer’s numbers, like written on your like arm and stuff, you know, in case you get arrested and, and, and, and all that. Um. Which never happened, but you know, there, you never know what it’s going to be like. And, but like there did always feel like there had to be like this separation to a certain sense. [00:50:33] Christina: Like even though I frequently what would happen is I would go just to go myself and then I would find out that I was the only reporter from my publication there. And then I’d be like, well, fuck, well now I can’t just be here for me now I have to be like less involved. You know what I mean? Like, I am no longer [00:50:49] Jeff: Seeing the news value. Just so you know, I’m here now and I can report back. [00:50:53] Christina: Right. [00:50:53] Christina: Well, well, right. And, and so, so it would be almost, the inverse would be like, I went at first like to maybe be involved and like, oh, I’m separate from this. This isn’t like my main [00:51:00] beat. This is me as a, as a, you know, citizen. And then it becomes, okay, now I have to shift him to being an observer. Right. And, um, and so I imagine like, I don’t know, like what the lines were for you, that there has to be something like, even though it’s weirder to not have the press badge and whatnot, there’s also something freeing about being like, well, no, I can participate however I see fit, and I don’t have to like, hold up, like those lines of like journalistic, like, you know, integrity or ambiguity or, or whatever, you know? [00:51:27] Jeff: Yeah, it’s true. I mean, I always, and, and even when I was a journalist, the thing I think I always considered myself secretly was a participant observer in research terms. ’cause like I knew that whether I was there as a reporter or not, if I’m a body in the crowd, I’m a body in the crowd. And, and that felt meaningful, uh, to me. [00:51:44] Jeff: But [00:51:46] Brett: The, uh, the best article I read in the last week was about how to make lock boxes. Are you familiar with lock [00:51:53] Jeff: yes, I grew up in the nineties. [00:51:54] Brett: Yeah. Um, like. Tools to [00:52:00] lock yourself to objects or to other people to impede anything from the downing of a tree to traffic on a busy street. And this article fascinated me because it talked about how to like build it with carabiners so you could quick release if you needed to run, but no cop could get their arm in how to add multiple midline bolts so that the cops wouldn’t know which ones to cut to get you out of it. [00:52:33] Brett: How to reinforce it with fucking Kevlar. It was, it was funny. It was funny, but also it felt, it felt pertinent because I also can’t carry signs. I just, I won’t do it because it feels like going to protest in general feels somewhat futile to me. Like the average protest doesn’t make [00:53:00] any difference at all. [00:53:01] Brett: A well-behaved stay within the fenced area, protest doesn’t make a difference. Um, but a protest that is, um, obtrusive, can make a difference, uh, can make a statement. And to me, like the idea of lock boxes of really like fucking shit up that I can get into. Debate on Protest Tactics [00:53:27] Jeff: I would just, I’ll, I’ll say one thing about protests. I never feel particularly great at like very kind of mainstream feeling protests, but if they don’t happen, then the slide goes faster. Like it’s important that they happen. But I’m with you. Like I don’t, I’m rarely at a protest and really inspired, but, but I am inspired by the fact that this is still a community that’s, [00:53:50] Brett: I wanna be a part, I want to be a part of the crew that enables the protest to be fully what it can be. I wanna be [00:54:00] the person that stops traffic. I want to be the person that distracts the cops. I wanna be the person that makes it possible for that protest peacefully to be all it can be. Um, being the protester doesn’t appeal to me. [00:54:17] Brett: I used to carry a lot of signs in my early twenties, late teens, um, and it, it, it grew on me that it was futile. Like we weren’t making a difference. But the black block, as much as protestors often fear, uh, what the black block does. Often provides cover and ability to your protest. [00:54:47] Christina: Yeah. [00:54:47] Jeff: Don’t get me started on black block. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll just have a fight. [00:54:51] Brett: No, it’s okay. [00:54:53] Jeff: I think that it’s. It’s literally masquerading as something more meaningful than regular protests. [00:55:00] Like I have watched so many black, black people, I’ve known them. There are people in my life I care about who are black block. [00:55:04] Jeff: I know people that have been, there are people in my life who are prosecuted by other people in my life for being black block, and I support them a thousand percent. Uh, you know, like someone’s indicted, like I know what side I’m on. Um, I have experienced black block in my life and in my long life as an activist, as spoiled kids who are looking for a fix of some sort. [00:55:27] Jeff: And easy cover, easy cover for provocateurs. Like [00:55:30] Christina: I, yes, no, I, I fully agree with [00:55:32] Brett: but I would say that the primary complaint about the black block is that they cause property damage. [00:55:39] Jeff: Oh yeah. That’s not a complaint of mine. [00:55:41] Brett: yeah, [00:55:42] Jeff: I mean, it’s, it’s like, it’s, I think that [00:55:44] Brett: is not people. [00:55:45] Jeff: it’s true. I will say, actually I’m gonna retake, I’m take my thing back. I have seen the property damage and looked at it and gone. You actually didn’t help. You only heard at this [00:55:54] Christina: Yeah, I was, I was [00:55:55] Jeff: broke a window of that small business over here, which happened a ton here. [00:55:59] Jeff: Like [00:55:59] Christina: I [00:56:00] was. I was [00:56:00] Jeff: That probably felt good, but it didn’t help anything. And if anything it ratchets up. I, this is what I don’t like doing things like that while masked to me. I’m not gonna say it’s like cowardice ’cause I [00:56:10] Christina: I am [00:56:11] Jeff: a whole philosophy. Yeah. I’m just saying like, uh, before I get to that, right, like to me, and this is what I found, find powerful about nonviolent action, and I might very specifically say nonviolent action because people think of nonviolence as, as passivity, is that when you hide and when you then do things hidden, it creates a sort of tension and a ramping up and a sort of calculus in a, in a crowd that I have only ever seen lead to near disaster for everybody. [00:56:42] Jeff: Whereas when you are locking yourself up to a tree or whatever else and you have no mask on and you are saying, this is a risk I’ve decided to take and I’m doing it. Masks are a tricky thing now because of surveillance and AI and everything, but like, I, I do not, I, it’s like property damage. Yeah. If I’m not like, oh my God, my heart [00:57:00] hurts because this capitalist entity got its window broken or something. [00:57:04] Jeff: But I don’t, I’ve only experienced it be as a threat to myself as an activist doing serious work. It’s only way I’ve ever experienced it is that now, now everything is ratcheted up a little bit, and now we’re in the land of you do that just a little differently than maybe would’ve happened and all of a sudden they’re shooting or there’s [00:57:22] Christina: I, well, this is what I was gonna say. [00:57:24] Jeff: for everybody when you do that. [00:57:26] Christina: I was gonna say, ’cause that’s what ha that, that, that’s my problem with it. Like I, I’m not a fan of property damage and it’s not because I care so much about the property. Um, although I think you make a great point about, yeah, there are small businesses and individuals and people like, who have their cars messed up, who like, might not have the type of insurance and stuff, you know what I mean? [00:57:43] Christina: Like, there are like people who didn’t do anything and you’re fucking up their stuff because okay, great. It made you feel better, but what did it do? But, but my, my biggest thing is exactly what you said, that second part, which is that I think leads to two things. One, I think it embodies people sometimes. [00:57:58] Christina: And I, and I agree with this [00:58:00] also with, with like sometimes the black box type thing. Is that, um, is that it? Um, black blocks, whatever, um, is that it like, uh, can enable and encourage, um, this comes with poverty, damage to people who aren’t involved and aren’t part of the whole thing to just take part in the melee. [00:58:18] Christina: And, and then the movement gets tainted by that, right? Like you see that a lot with looting, like people who loot stuff are usually not like the people who were part of the protest, but the people who came around and were like, well, we might as well, you know, like, if, if this stuff is here for free for all and then everyone gets tagged by it. [00:58:35] Christina: And then the secondary thing is that, yeah, this now creates an environment where law enforcement can go in and can and can take action because they, they can make a claim that things were at risk or that things were getting dangerous to, to a certain degree. And it can go into a much more, um, like [00:58:52] Brett: is pacifying law enforcement your goal though? [00:58:55] Christina: Well, I, I think that I don’t really care about pacifying law enforcement. I’m saying I don’t [00:59:00] want people to get shot. I, I don’t want people to get shot and killed. And if you are going there and you’re going with the understanding that, yeah, I’m gonna be willing to get shot and killed for my protest, all power to you. [00:59:12] Christina: But I don’t think that’s how most people are doing things. And, and I don’t think, and I, I think a lot of times some of your most vocal people are the, to your point, like what you said earlier, Jeff, are the fucking like spoiled like kids who don’t have any experience, who have places to go back to who don’t really, aren’t even there for the convictions. [00:59:30] Christina: They’re just there for like the surface stuff. It’s like the, it’s the fucking Occupy Wall Street bullshit. It’s, it’s the fucking like, like Chaz and, and chop bullshit. And it doesn’t accomplish anything. Like we had a lot of people who genuinely died, like in, in Chap and cha, uh, chop and Chaz and fuck law enforcement. [00:59:48] Christina: I’m not here for any of that. But like, when you create a kind of an environment that people try to portray as being like this, you know, like. Like great [01:00:00] kind of idyllic, uh, community environment. And it wasn’t that. And then three people got shot and died, like, fuck off. Like, you know, like it wasn’t a, a good environment. [01:00:09] Christina: Like it wasn’t some sort of like utopia sort of thing. It was, it was a bunch of people who might’ve had some good intentions and I supported them. Like we, we gave water and we were like in support of what they were trying to do. And then it just morphed into this thing that wasn’t, and I don’t think it was helpful. [01:00:25] Christina: And I think that it, you know, hurt a lot of things more ultimately than it helped. Um, I’m fully in favor of people if they wanna, you know, fight the system that way. And they wanna do it if they feel like violence is the only way to get it across. Maybe sometimes it is, but I don’t have to participate in that. [01:00:41] Christina: And, and I don’t necessarily think that always, um, furthers what the goals are. But I’m also, I wanna be very clear and I don’t have any problems with people who are this. Reflections on Anarchism and Activism [01:00:51] Christina: I’m not an anarchist and I have absolutely no desire to be an anarchist. That is not my bag. If that’s how people wanna, wanna associate and do things all power to [01:01:00] you, you have that right? [01:01:01] Christina: That is not my, my position or like my affinity. So [01:01:08] Jeff: This is [01:01:08] Brett: So Christina, how are you? [01:01:10] Jeff: wait, I just wanna point out what people can’t see is that through all the, all this conversation, Brett is leaned back, you know, pretty, pretty well in his chair, probably as far as it goes. And he has a, a beautiful, beautiful, furry cat, uh, up to his neck and he’s just slowly stroking the cat’s neck. [01:01:27] Jeff: And the nat the cat is so happy and it, you don’t even look like a mobster. You look like a, you know, something far nicer. Um, [01:01:33] Christina: little bit like a mobster. [01:01:34] Jeff: that’s a, that’s a layer in this conversation right now that nobody [01:01:38] Brett: I’m a very nice anarchist. [01:01:40] Christina: No. And I, and, [01:01:41] Jeff: of very nice [01:01:42] Christina: And again, like I, I wanna be very clear, like I respect like that, that, that is like the stuff that you follow and like, support, like I really do. Um, that’s just not my position. But like I don’t have any problem with people who do that. It’s just not like how I choose to, you know, express my, my beliefs. [01:01:56] Christina: But I have no problem with people who do do that. And I feel like we need people like [01:02:00] that who are out there. I’m just not one of them. Like, [01:02:02] Brett: You said [01:02:02] Jeff: don’t conflate. Don’t conflate anarchists with black block [01:02:05] Christina: oh, I’m not. I’m [01:02:06] Jeff: not you. I’m talking to Brett, like I feel like I have a lot of lovely anarchists in my life and some of them [01:02:12] Brett: Yeah. Well that’s [01:02:13] Jeff: black block, but they do. It’s not fair to anarchism [01:02:15] Brett: the people with the lock boxes, the people without the mask, those are often anarchists. [01:02:21] Jeff: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, [01:02:22] Brett: not saying like you have to be black block [01:02:25] Jeff: yeah, totally. I know you’re not, yeah, yeah. What does the cat [01:02:28] Christina: No. And, and, and to be clear, like I feel like people, like if you’re willing to put your own face and your own like, like name and stuff on top of it, like that is brave as fucking hell. And I think that’s amazing, right? Like if you’re willing to actually take the consequences to it, like that to me is incredible. [01:02:43] Christina: Um, [01:02:44] Jeff: what’s tricky now is like there are, I understand and I can hear someone saying as they’re listening or like banging their head against their, uh, I don’t know what, if you’re listening to this on your phone that like there are anew, there are reasons for people to wear masks and so it’s not mask wearing [01:03:00] that I think either of us is coming down on. [01:03:01] Jeff: It’s the sort of like, I am specifically, I’ll be honest, thinking of a kind of mostly young white activist who is masking up and breaking shit as kind of what I have in mind. And I also recognize that I am probably over overly narrow in how I describe it. Partly because I have a bo, I have a. Bodily response to it. [01:03:21] Jeff: Having watched that stuff draw people who have come to a protest without, um, without being prepared to get hurt, having watched people in that position get drawn into the risk of being hurt, including children in strollers. Um, because of what if I’m being really cruel and ungracious because of what feels like daddy issues, not anarchism. [01:03:42] Jeff: I mean, the black guys, [01:03:43] Brett: that’s [01:03:44] Jeff: I just, I look at like, oh yeah, that’s a daddy issue right there. That’s not anti-capitalist [01:03:49] Christina: Right, right, right. And [01:03:51] Jeff: dads can. [01:03:53] Christina: No, and, and totally like people, there are very valid reasons to have masks and stuff, but I feel like sometimes it, I, but [01:04:00] I will still say even then, like it’s one of those things where I’m like, I really respect, like, um, like there was this, uh, uh, employee protest, um, at, uh, at Microsoft, uh, last week, like on the fricking 50th anniversary, which is ballsy. [01:04:12] Christina: And look, I wouldn’t have done it and I don’t think it accomplished anything, but I respect the hell out of the people who did that, did that under their own faces and under their own names. And, and I’m like, you know what I mean? Well, I mean, look, if you’re going to, you know, interrupt like a, a major event or whatever, and, and you’re doing it for those reasons and you’re gonna do it for the things you claim, like, I’m sorry, I think you do need to do that with your own face and with your own name. [01:04:35] Christina: I think that if you do it, otherwise, I, I think it’s fucking cowardly. Um, uh, because it’s not like anybody was at risk for getting. You know, shot or anything like that wasn’t a risk there. Um, if you, but if you, like, if you’re gonna do that stuff and you know that you’re gonna get fired, and of course you’re gonna get fired, like, that’s really brave. [01:04:52] Christina: But do that under your name and your face. I think, again, I wouldn’t have done that and I don’t think it accomplished anything, but I really respect the people who did it, did it [01:05:00] like openly, you know what I mean? Like, that’s, that’s bravery. That’s bravery that I certainly don’t have. Um, I mean, I, I, I don’t know. [01:05:08] Christina: I guess if it was something I had strong enough convictions about, maybe right? But like, I would never pretend that like I have it in me, like I’m too risk averse to do a lot of that type of stuff. Um, but I respect people who, we do need people who will do that. You know, we do. [01:05:26] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. We need all types for sure. Brett and Christina, just because Brett brought up the nineties, uh, and, and the sort of direct action days, the, like the, really the beginning of the lockbox era in our generation, I have put a link to young child Jeffy interviewing Noam Chomsky in the, in the WTO protest era. [01:05:48] Christina: Oh wow. [01:05:49] Jeff: in the, a link in the show notes. I, I think I was, was, what is it, like 99 or [01:05:55] Christina: Yeah, that that was the [01:05:56] Brett: I was, I saw Noam Chomsky at the U of M in 99.[01:06:00] [01:06:00] Jeff: Did you? Yeah. I got to go to his office and interview him. [01:06:03] Brett: Oh, wow. [01:06:04] Jeff: It was awesome. And I, and there’s even a great scene at the end when he pulls down a couple of photos of his children and grandchildren that, that I really, that I [01:06:13] Brett: All right. [01:06:13] Jeff: So, and he says the word Pokemon, which was a goal of mine because I talked to a friend who was his literary agent. [01:06:19] Jeff: I’m like, look, I’m interviewing him. Chomsky One, I’m terrified. Two, gimme something, uh, that I can ask him about that isn’t gonna be an every other Noam Chomsky interview. Which of, as you remember, was like one a day if you were counting. And he is like, he’s fascinated with Pokemon and the, and the naming of it and the linguistics of it. [01:06:36] Jeff: I was like, got it. Thanks. So I did get him to say Pokemon at one [01:06:39] Christina: Which is freaking awesome. Awesome. Honestly, like I would be so proud of myself. I’d be like, I got him [01:06:43] Jeff: I was, I wasn’t even like, by the end, I wasn’t even like, I interviewed Noam Cho. I’m like, I got Noam Chomsky to say Pokemon. [01:06:50] Christina: which [01:06:50] Brett: was the same year I met Jello. B Alpha, [01:06:53] Jeff: Awesome. Oh man. My son just discovered Jello opera and, and just listened to one of [01:06:58] Brett: like spoken word. Yeah. Okay. [01:06:59] Jeff: well, [01:07:00] no, first Dead Kennedy’s [01:07:01] Brett: Yeah. [01:07:01] Jeff: and then, um, ’cause he is in a punk rock band. And then, uh, I was like, have you heard his spoken word? He is like, well, yeah, I was just wondering. I don’t really like poems. [01:07:08] Jeff: I was like, oh brother, these are not poems. You’re gonna love it. [01:07:12] Brett: I don’t remember what I said to Joe Biafra. I just remember like, this was at Little Tijuana’s before it was like a, [01:07:20] Jeff: Everybody, everybody in, in the nineties, if you, uh, if you had just left a punk rock show and you needed food, it didn’t matter if you were high or not high straight edge or not, you were going to little tiwan as, and you were in love with one of [01:07:33] Brett: For dollar pitchers of beer. I dated most of those waitresses, um, [01:07:39] Jeff: Oh [01:07:39] Brett: but I don’t remember what I said to him, but his reply was, don’t be an asshole. And I wore that as a badge of honor for so long. [01:07:49] Jeff: J Pi Alfred, who’s almost definitely an asshole, but I love him to death. Awesome. Christina, we we, uh, we gotta roll around [01:07:58] Christina: Yeah. No, and I [01:08:00] already, I already kind of talked about mine, I guess. I [01:08:01] Jeff: Yeah, you did. You [01:08:02] Christina: Um, yeah, I mean, so, uh, yeah, no, we’re good. TV Shows and Entertainment [01:08:05] Christina: Um, I, how one of the ways like talking about like disconnecting from like the news and stuff is like, I’ve been watching a lot more TV and um, ’cause it TV has been good. Uh, the last, uh, little bit like we had. [01:08:18] Christina: We had severance, um, which, which obviously ended was great. We had White Lotus, which I very much enjoyed. I don’t think it landed the ending. Um, [01:08:26] Jeff: still so fun [01:08:27] Christina: it was still so fun. Exactly. And, and, uh, and the drama now around that season that, that Jason Isaacs just being like a shit stir and just like giving these interviews where he’s just making it worse and you know that he knows it. [01:08:39] Christina: ’cause he’s like, I read everything about this. And I’m like, wow, man. Who would’ve thought that? Like, the guy that plays the dad, like, like the, like the doped up dad also, he’s British and he did such a great southern accent, like, [01:08:50] Jeff: Andy’s Daddy Malfoy, [01:08:52] Christina: yeah, yeah. [01:08:53] Jeff: took me halfway through the [01:08:55] Christina: Oh my God. [01:08:55] Jeff: I know this fucking face? [01:08:57] Christina: Yes, yes, you’re right. Daddy Malfoy. But like, he did such [01:09:00] a fucking good job, like playing like the Rich Southern guy. [01:09:04] Christina: And I know that, I know the rich Southern guy incredibly well. And like, he fucking like, nailed it, like, like the acts and everything, but then he’s just being such a shitster, so I’m like, I’m, I’m here for it. Um, the, uh, the last of us, uh, season two, uh, premieres, um, this week, I’m looking forward to that Hacks just came back. [01:09:24] Christina: Um, that’s one of my favorite shows. I don’t know if either of you have watched that, but [01:09:27] Jeff: No. [01:09:28] Christina: so, it’s a, it’s a, I think you both would really like it. It’s on, it’s on HBO Max whatever. Um, it’s, uh, stars, uh, gene Smart and um, uh, Hannah Eve. And it is, um, uh, created and written by um, two of the people who were heavily involved with Broad City. [01:09:47] Christina: Um, and um, and it’s, uh, but, but it’s um, and I love Broad City. Like I’m a broad city like all the way. ’cause it was my. You know, I wasn’t single, but like every other aspect help really did relate a lot to [01:10:00] my life at that time. It is a much better show. Um, it is, um, it, it’s, and it has a broader appeal, so it’s about this, um, woman who is a, a Las Vegas like standup comedian, like she’s in this universe. [01:10:13] Christina: Uh, I guess she maybe would be kind of like an Elaine Stitch type, although I guess younger, but like very famous, well known. Um, has like a, a show like on, on the strip, uh, at one of the biggest Dinos, um, is also a QVC person and they’re wanting to kind of. Kick her out. Um, and there’s this, uh, gen Z um, uh, bisexual writer from Los Angeles who got in trouble because of some stuff that she tweeted and they share an agent. [01:10:40] Christina: And the agent is like, you have to like write, she should write jokes for you. And they have kind of a, you know, love hate relationship with one another. And, um, and it’s going into its fourth season and, and the show has shifted a lot since then, but it’s, it’s a comedy and it’s, you know, one Emmy’s for being a comedy, but even though it’s like a half hour, like there’s a lot of heart [01:11:00] to it. [01:11:00] Christina: And it’s one of those things where it’s almost like, it’s like a comedy that it’s kind of a drama underneath and in some ways, but the acting is so good and it’s very funny. And, um, and season four already is really good. So watching that. Um, and uh, yeah, and like I said, I’m looking forward to the last of us, uh, season two, like very here for that. [01:11:22] Christina: Um. [01:11:23] Jeff: So here for it. I’m re I’m almost done rewatching season [01:11:26] Christina: same, same. I’m trying to like remind myself and I’ve played the game, so like I know the whole [01:11:30] Jeff: I have not, my kids have, but I, and I’ve not played, uh, the second game, so I don’t know anything about what’s about to happen, which is very exciting. Although I kind of bet it’s amazing to have played the game and then watch the [01:11:41] Christina: Yeah, no, the adaptation is so good. Like, I, I think I said this last year, I was more impressed by the fallout adaptation because they had so much less to work with. Like they had to capture the vibes of the game, and they did perfectly, like speaking of White Lotus and Walton Goggins, like, he was great on Fallout, but like, and I, I loved [01:12:00] Fallout for that reason. [01:12:00] Christina: But the last of us is like taking what, in my opinion, is like one of like the best like video games like ever and turning that into tv. And then in some ways, like there were some episodes in the first season that like transcended the source material, which you never see with adaptations. And very rarely do. [01:12:21] Christina: Right. Like the Godfather would be one of them. Right. But like, it, it’s, it’s [01:12:24] Jeff: Definitely better than the book. [01:12:26] Christina: well, I mean, I think the book is good, but like the, the movie is like other level and then like the, the sequel is like, you know, other level. Right. But like, you know, it, it’s rare that you have things that transcend the source material and like, it definitely did. [01:12:39] Christina: So, um, [01:12:40] Jeff: My godson is a kid in the next season of Fallout [01:12:44] Christina: oh, that’s awesome. [01:12:45] Jeff: it’s just, he’s in some scenes here and there, but he got to be in one scene that was just him and an actor that is not yet, uh, known to be in this season, and he didn’t know who it was gonna be, but the actor takes off his helmet and reveals himself in this scene. [01:12:59] Jeff: And, and I just [01:13:00] say it, it was like, holy fuck. Yeah. It was amazing. [01:13:03] Christina: That’s so [01:13:04] Jeff: He showed me all these scenes of getting his makeup set up and like all this amazing stuff. It was so cool. He is just like, uh, he’s about 10, you know? He is like a little [01:13:12] Christina: Nice. Well that’s, that’s fantastic for him. [01:13:15] Jeff: Shit, Danny Glamour. Did I get the age of my godson wrong? [01:13:18] Jeff: It’s Danny Glamour’s son. I, I take it, I [01:13:21] Brett: Friend of the show, Danny Gl, we haven’t heard from for [01:13:25] Jeff: He is gonna be in my house. He listens to every episode. He, he like basically live tweets, but on messaging to me when he is [01:13:32] Christina: Nice. Nice. I love that. Um, uh, the other of, and I just will mention it real quickly. Neither of you have seen it, but I will recommend it, um, that the pit just ended its first season. [01:13:45] Jeff: Looks good. [01:13:45] Christina: It’s really good. So a lot of people have made comparisons to er, which is completely fair because it is from, it stars, no. [01:13:52] Christina: Wiley as an ER doctor. Um, and, and, and, um, and, but this time they’re not in Chicago. They’re in, they’re in Pittsburgh. Um, hence like the [01:14:00] name is kind of a double entendre. ’cause like, they, they call the pit, like where like the, the ER is, and then it’s with two T’s because Pittsburgh, um, and the, the, uh, executive producer is John Wells, who was. [01:14:11] Christina: One of the main people behind ER and also the West Wing and the creator was a long time writer on er. Um, but the shows other than both being in emergency rooms, like they’re different, right? Like there are obviously it’s 30 years, you know, after er, so a lot has changed in emergency medicine and stuff, but it’s, it’s a really good show. [01:14:31] Christina: And the concert I think is really clever. And this is how they were able to, to have it to be a relatively low budget, like probably four and a half million an episode or so, which in these days is fairly low budget, is that they basically do an hour from each shift. So like, it starts at like 8:00 PM and then like, uh, or like 7:00 AM or something, and then like ends like. [01:14:54] Christina: Like midnight or whatever. So it’s like 15 hours of, [01:15:00] um, a whole shift in the er. So [01:15:02] Jeff: Oh, [01:15:02] Christina: what, so what’s cool about that is that you see like some of the same patients, like from episode to episode, because that’s one of the underlying things is that, that are 40 million, you know, people that health insurance and who use the ER as their primary doctor. [01:15:17] Christina: And so you have people who are like waiting all day and then you have like big, you know, events happen and like other stuff and like, you know, doctors kind of come in and off shifts, although most of them are throughout the whole time. It’s, it’s really good. It’s really well done. The acting is incredible. [01:15:30] Christina: Like the acting is so good and the writing is really good. And, um, and it’s already been renewed for a second season. They’ve already committed. They’re like, we’re going to. Um, do this once a year. It’s kind of like traditional tv. So like they’re already starting to write the next season and it’s gonna be back in January and like that. [01:15:48] Christina: I also appreciate, ’cause a, it’s like 15 episodes is almost like a network TV length series, right? Like it’s certainly better than what you, what we get in streaming for the most part and b, for them to be [01:16:00] like, no, this can be something you can count on, you know, to come back every year versus having to wait like however many years it’s been since the last of us, or, or whatever, you know? [01:16:09] Jeff: yeah. That’s all I should probably get to that. By the way, my godson is 13, I mean 12, sorry. 12. 12. But, but was a rockstar long before [01:16:18] Brett: Did you just text? [01:16:19] Jeff: fallout. Yes, I did. Yeah. [01:16:21] Christina: well, you know what, in fairness, in fairness to you, like if he’s 12, he’s probably pa, he’s probably playing 10. [01:16:26] Jeff: Hmm. Yeah, that’s right. That’s what I meant. [01:16:29] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, [01:16:30] Jeff: I was like, these are Hollywood rules. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Hollywood rules. Uh, last TV recommendation. Well, one, my wife and I are watching Season Two of Bad Sisters, which is just an awesome [01:16:41] Brett: That’s so good. [01:16:42] Jeff: So good. But we also are just finishing up. We got it took us forever to get to it, but season three of Sex Lives of College Girls, which by the way, when it’s up when my kids pass, I feel a little whatever, but, but I love, it’s a, Mindy Kaling is behind that show, but I love how afterschool special that show [01:16:58] Christina: Oh, totally. Totally. [01:16:59] Jeff: [01:17:00] so awesome. [01:17:01] Christina: No, totally. Although I will say like, after Renee rap left, like I knew it wasn’t getting renewed. I was like, your star is, I was like, your star is gone. Like, [01:17:09] Jeff: her so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, it’s a fun, [01:17:13] Christina: It’s a fun [01:17:14] Jeff: It’s stupid as [01:17:15] Christina: So dumb. But it’s, I [01:17:16] Jeff: it’s, but that’s what makes it like an afterschool special, but with sex, like it’s so awesome. Anyway. Also, Timothy Chala Me’s sister is, could not be more, more different than Timothy Chalamet and is fucking amazing. [01:17:31] Jeff: Better than Bob Dylan. [01:17:33] Brett: We’re an hour and 15 in, do you guys still wanna do a [01:17:37] Jeff: Yeah, [01:17:38] Christina: Yeah, [01:17:38] Jeff: got time. [01:17:40] Brett: All right, [01:17:41] Jeff: We’re just hanging out, having a conversation. Brett, having a, we’re just having a regular non diagnose. Uh [01:17:48] Christina: a conversational [01:17:49] Brett: Yeah. grAPPtitude [01:17:50] Brett: Alright, I will kick off. Um, uh, gratitude Mine is a well-known app among, I think our listeners and [01:18:00] you guys, uh, carabiner. Um, it is a, an app that at as close to system level as you can get, um, on Mac Os, will, uh, change the way your keys behave. And I have for a long time only use carabiner to create my hyper key, which is when you hold down caps lock and it functions as shift control, alt or option and command all as one key. [01:18:34] Brett: And I’ve done a lot of stuff with that. What I recently got into, like going a little crazy with it and my favorite current keyboard assignment is I can hold down, um, [01:18:50] Jeff: we fucking go [01:18:51] Brett: my, I can hold down semicolon with my right pinky, which is right where it is on the home row. [01:18:58] Jeff: while doing a [01:19:00] Kegel. [01:19:01] Brett: Then HIJK become, I’m sorry, H-I-J-I-K-L-I tried it with HJKL for a while, so I’m confused. [01:19:11] Brett: But, but JIKL become arrow keys for me. So I just hold my pinky down and then use my three remaining fingers to move my cursor around. And with carabiner, that still functions with like command and options. So I can do or, and shift, so I can do selections and everything with, uh, with just my right hand, never leaving the home. [01:19:39] Brett: So CERs my pick. [01:19:42] Jeff: I’d like to, I’d like to claim, claim a little bit of my time back. Uh, I don’t know. Is that what they [01:19:48] Christina: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I’d like, I’d like to, I’d like to reclaim my time. [01:19:50] Jeff: I’d like to, I’d like to give a joke I made there a little more space, um, and contextualize it, which is that for anybody that doesn’t already know, and I’m sure all you know, Brett has some of the [01:20:00] craziest fucking keyboard shortcuts ever and can somehow remember them despite claiming or, or not being able to remember last week. [01:20:08] Jeff: He and I just suggested that one element of your, um, your keyboard shortcut is that you have to be doing kegels while you, while you press these buttons. And I wanna point out that men should also do cables. I, I is what I understand, which [01:20:21] Brett: Exercising the PC muscle can give you way stronger orgasms. [01:20:25] Jeff: oh, thank you sponsor. That was not even why I was told it was good. It’s an, it’s incontinence as you get older, that is actually the thing. But, um. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out, get that joke back in there, make a little space for it [01:20:38] Brett: Well done. [01:20:39] Jeff: yeah. Brett, I’m sure most of the listeners have Overtired know about carabiner because of you as of like 13, 14 years ago. [01:20:46] Brett: Yeah, [01:20:46] Jeff: ’cause you have been pitching that one hard for so long. You’re the reason I had a hyper key, [01:20:50] Brett: Back so, so it’s currently carabiner elements, but. Like back when I started using it 13, 14 years ago, it was carabiner. [01:21:00] Um, so carabiner elements is actually my pick for the week, but I’m done [01:21:07] Christina: Nice. [01:21:08] Jeff: All right, Christina. [01:21:09] Christina: So mine and I, okay, I feel bad saying this because, um. Regular people can’t use it right now, although they are starting to issue out invites, which is how I got it. But No, but, but, but I mentioned it just because I, I think they’re gonna start rolling it out more. Um, uh, actively. So Arc, the browser company, uh, the company behind arc, they have a, a new AI focused browser that they are calling Dia DIA and it is WebKit based. [01:21:37] Christina: Um, which is interesting. Um, rather than, I’m not really sure why WebKit ’cause I don’t really think that there is an advantage to WebKit at all. Um Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, I mean, if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna use it, I would just use Blink. Like if you’re gonna use, like, in my opinion, I, I don’t, there’s not, there’s conclusively not an [01:22:00] improvement in battery life in WebKit versus Chromium. [01:22:02] Christina: There’s. Way less of an extension stuff, whatever, regardless. Um, I mean, I don’t have a problem with WebKit, I just don’t necessarily see the point, but, but this is, but it’s still an interesting browser, um, that basically is like AI centric. So like you kind of have like, um, uh, an always open kind of like, uh, window view where you can, you know, ask stuff with like chat GBT or other AI assistance and whatnot, and, and then also ask it about different things that you’re doing and researching. [01:22:30] Christina: And so it, it’s a cool idea. Uh, dia browser.com is, is where they have, uh, information about it. Um, I’ll see if I can get, uh, an invite for, for YouTube, but it’s, um, it’s, uh, it’s, there are a lot of really interesting, um, we’ve talked about this a lot over the last couple of years, like people taking on different rifts of, of the, the web browser. [01:22:50] Christina: And, um, I, I am a little bit. Concerned about what this means for arc. I have a feeling that it means that ARC is essentially [01:23:00] just in maintenance mode. I’ve been getting that impression too, which, which sucks because I really like arc, um, a lot. [01:23:06] Jeff: cool. Very [01:23:07] Christina: But, um, maybe, I think, I think that Dia they’re trying to basically be a little bit more broad because the only problem with ARC is that once you really get into it, like I think it’s awesome, but the learning curve and like the time that you have to spend with it is significant. [01:23:21] Christina: Like for me, even I will say that like I had to spend a lot of time with Arc to really have it click for me. And I don’t think that most people are willing to go through that time and I don’t blame them. Um, DIA just in the little bit of time I’ve, I’ve been using it I guess since like Monday, um, on my personal devices and it’s, it’s pretty cool. [01:23:37] Christina: It is Apple silicon only right now. I hope that they will bring it to um, uh, uh, you know, Intel Max. ’cause there are still lots of them out there. Um, and I would like to use it on my iMac, but, um, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s kind of a cool concept and there’s some really neat ideas and stuff that they’re doing. So Zoia is my pick. [01:23:54] Jeff: Awesome. Awesome. My, I, because I’m not a [01:24:00] Linux guy, this Linux pick I’m about to make, I will not go on and on about. Um, but I have, so I moved into an operations director role at my organization and we’re like member owned, cooperative with like seven member owners and just one employee who’s not a member. [01:24:16] Jeff: So it’s a small group, but, um, but like we’ve just never, in the history of kind of leadership in the organization, there’s never been a point where like there’s a lot of thought about security or, or how we might be at risk or how our use of, or, you know, the company’s email might or something goes wrong, how that could impact us, you know, various things. [01:24:38] Jeff: I’ve played with Kelly Linux, which is where I’m getting with this for over the years, like many times, um, just ’cause I find the toolbox insane. And for anybody that doesn’t know, it’s like it’s a distro of, of, of Linux that is just preloaded with every like, you know, quote unquote ethical and not ethical hacker tool. [01:24:55] Jeff: You can imagine. I mean, it’s definitely like you, it’s definitely like getting into a tank and [01:25:00] being like, well, this one lets me drive, but that one really fucks people up. Um, but, uh, but I’ve been doing this, I’ve been doing something that, like, I remember I went to a journalism, like a computer journalist nerd conference years ago, and there was a New York Times journalist there, and she did a, she did a whole session called Docs [01:25:18] Christina: Mm-hmm. Oh, I love that. [01:25:19] Jeff: was like, yeah, go see all the different ways you’re out there, you are exposed, whatever it is. And so I mostly do what they call, you know, like open source intelligence, uh, is what I’m playing with with Kelly Linux, where it’s just like simple things that there have been services for. [01:25:35] Jeff: Like type in a username and see. Um, you know, how many accounts exist out there. And honestly, I really recommend people doing that for themselves. ’cause it’s like, if you’re our age and you’ve been on the internet this long, you’re like, oh, fuck that one too. And then there’s a whole, like the, the CLI for have I been pod uh, is amazing. [01:25:53] Jeff: And you can use all the functions on the website, but you can use, I can like write a script with all of our members on it [01:26:00] and check it and you can of course check passwords, all that stuff. Um, and so I’ve basically been working on like learning all the various tools for open source intelligence and then writing a script that just checks every once in a while for all of our members and, and my family members and some friends. [01:26:15] Jeff: Uh, and then allows me to sort of like send them information so it can be like, Hey, just so you know, this is where you exist, this is whatever. Um, and it’s great. It’s a step up from what I did a long time ago, which was part of actually the Docs Yourself thing, which is I set up a. A Google, uh, alert for pretty much everybody in my family, every colleague, every whatever else, so that if someone shows up on the internet in a way that they didn’t mean to you, see it right away. [01:26:39] Jeff: But anyway, I, I love, I mean, I’m not a Linux guy at all, like, uh, but I really love, um, getting into an immersive world like that. And Cali Linux is just like, if you’re interested in a little bit, definitely takes some, like having a tutorial by your side. But like, it’s pretty, it’s pretty enlightening and amazing to just dip in [01:27:00] even just the open source intelligence tools and, and get a sense of what you can know about yourself online. [01:27:05] Jeff: But what can be known about you? It’s pretty powerful and like humbling. [01:27:10] Christina: No, I totally agree. I totally agree. And I, I think Cali is an awesome distribution. Um, it’s one of those that you can, like, if you wanna try it out, like you can run it in a BM or you can put it on a USB thumb drive and like [01:27:19] Jeff: I have mine on a raspberry pie and [01:27:21] Christina: I was gonna say, [01:27:22] Jeff: scale. [01:27:23] Christina: I was gonna say, I was gonna say, um, raspberry pie is great for another thing I would say. [01:27:27] Christina: Um, and I don’t have any, you know, listeners, this will apply to, uh, ’cause we know our listenership, but if you, because it, it can be so useful for the scenarios that you described, Jeff. I often use it, um, within, um, WSL, the Windows subsystem for Linux because they actually have a version that they’ve, uh, you know, uh, like a distro so to speak, that you can install for WSL. [01:27:48] Christina: They’ve even, like, we’re one of the first ones to become part of like the modern WSL infra. And so they even have like a whole way where you can even launch like the gooey apps from within Windows. So if you want, but one, and what’s nice about [01:28:00] that, and, and I I think especially think about like cis admin types or people who might be doing these things, is that like, okay, you have a Windows machine, you run, run, run some of these tools. [01:28:08] Christina: You can also have it integrate with some of like maybe your, your Windows files and other stuff to pipe through without having to do like the normal, you know, VM type of thing or, or, or, or SSH thing. So, um. So, yeah, just throwing that out there. ’cause um, I, I used to sometimes communicate with that team, um, when I would talk with the WSL folks and, and Callie was always like, in my opinion, like one of like the best, like WSL Distros, um, uh, like more, you know, specific ones other than like, you know, like the, a bunch who were fedora or, or whatever. [01:28:39] Christina: So. [01:28:40] Jeff: Yeah, well it’s great too because most of the tools, what’s nice is the whole menu’s there. It’s like going to a Denny’s, but you can go have a hamburger at home, like you can go onto your Mac and get into home brew and, and install most of these tools. But like it’s a nice place to just be immersed in it and be like, what’s this do? [01:28:55] Jeff: What’s this [01:28:56] Christina: well, that’s the thing. That’s, that’s why I think it’s so great to have it, like on a raspberry pie or on a thumb drive [01:29:00] or like a WSL like instance because yeah, to your point, you can have this installed basically in any Linux TRO or on Mac os. Um, but like, you don’t have to worry about that. [01:29:10] Christina: It’s all one place and, uh, and, and it, and that makes it really cool. [01:29:14] Jeff: Yeah. Awesome. [01:29:17] Brett: All right, well it’s two o’clock here and I haven’t had lunch and I have to pee so bad, so it has been so good talking to you guys. Thank you. But I think we should call it [01:29:29] Jeff: Get some pee. [01:29:30] Brett: get some, get some pee. I. [01:29:31] Christina: Get some pee.

Hosts Brett Terpstra, Christina Warren, and Jeff Severns Guntzel welcome special guest Corey O’Brien, author of ‘Two Truths and a Lie,’ who shares his existential journey of writing and promoting his first novel, a rich “noir cyberpunk” entry. From the gritty soul of cyberpunk to the calming practice of metal welding, this episode is a rollercoaster of conversations, insights, and creative tools. Overtired style. 00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement 00:54 Corey O’Brien’s Background and Career 02:43 Transition to Fictional Writing 05:44 Mental Health Corner 06:23 Brett’s Job Update 09:20 Jeff’s Workshop and Squirrel Saga 13:53 Christina’s New Job Experience 18:17 Corey’s Mental Health and Medication 28:33 Promoting the Novel 33:40 Inspiration and World-Building 46:20 The Evolution of Cyberspace 48:29 Economics of Memory 52:44 Queer Love Story in Fiction 58:49 Writing Dialogue Trees for Video Games 01:03:06 Tools for Writing and Productivity 01:26:08 The Importance of Business Cards 01:31:13 Closing Remarks and Recommendations Show Links Two Truths and a Lie Myths Retold Redfall Squirrel Obstacle Course The Through – A Raphael Johnson Devil in a blue dress Mona Lisa Overdrive The Peripheral Snow Crash Farewell my Lovely Inkle Twine Obsidian OEI Tools Scrivener Soulver Sendy Cork PowerToys on Windows NotebookLM Blinq Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Two Truths and a Lie With Cory O’Brien Introduction and Special Guest Announcement [00:00:00] Brett: Hello, welcome to a very special Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren and Jeff Severns Guntzel. And this week we have the Long Promise special guest Corey O’Brien, author of Two Truths and a Lie. How’s it going, Corey? [00:00:21] Cory: It’s going great. Happy to be here. [00:00:23] Jeff: Hi, Corey. We’re saying hello. [00:00:30] Brett: Um, yeah, so we’re, we’re definitely gonna talk about the book. I have filled Corey in on kind of our usual format, and he’s down for, for playing along with what we usually do. So, um, I, I feel a little weird jumping right into Mental Health Corner. I want a little bit more robust of an intro. Corey O’Brien’s Background and Career [00:00:54] Brett: So, Corey, tell us a little about you. [00:00:58] Cory: Uh, sure. [00:01:00] It’s a, it’s a, it’s a big question. [00:01:02] Brett: It is. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. That was so vague. [00:01:05] Jeff: Tell me who you are. [00:01:06] Cory: all right. Uh, I am a writer game designer man about town. I, [00:01:15] Jeff: that’s you. I saw. [00:01:16] Cory: yeah, yeah. I’m all over the place. You see a guy that’s me [00:01:20] Jeff: That’s you. [00:01:20] Cory: watching you, counting your teeth. Uh, I, I, uh, I, I used to write a website called, uh, mire Told where I would tell mythology like it was 3:00 AM and I was drunk in a chat room. [00:01:34] Cory: And I did that. I did that for many years, parlayed it into a small level of notoriety that somehow got my publisher to pitch me to everyone as the beloved internet humorist, which I still, I still find kind of embarrassing. But, uh, then, then over time, like what I’ve always wanted to do is write books. Uh, and so over time sort of parly the notoriety from the blog into.[00:02:00] [00:02:00] Cory: A career writing for video games. Uh, I’ve written for, uh, the comedy dating sim called Monster Prom. And then, uh, my favorite game that I, that I worked on is Hollow Vista, but you can only play it if you have an iPhone, unfortunately, which I don’t, I haven’t even played it in its native environment. I’ve played it, I’ve played it in like a browser version, but, uh, and then, uh, and now I work for like, um, for like fancy 3D games, writing dialogue, trees and stuff. [00:02:29] Cory: But, uh, my, my number one passion is writing books and I’m very excited that I finally have this novel out. And so that’s, that, that, that brings me to this present moment. [00:02:41] Christina: Um, so. Transition to Fictional Writing [00:02:43] Christina: How, how, um, I guess what was your process, I guess, moving from, uh, have you been like, I guess like writing short stories, like your whole life, uh, you know, I know you’ve done the, the, uh, the, the humor thing and, and you’ve worked, um, you know, um, game stuff. But what was, I guess, your process of transitioning to, um, [00:03:00] uh, fair, um, fictional, like narrative writing. [00:03:04] Cory: I, I have been writing stories for as long as like, I knew that was a thing you could do, and I, I used to write a number of short stories. I, like, I went to graduate school for creative writing. I wrote a lot of short stories then yeah, I left that part [00:03:19] Brett: Yeah, that’s an important piece. [00:03:21] Christina: I was gonna say that helps, [00:03:22] Cory: But I, I, I don’t think, I don’t think that graduate school, like graduate school certainly gave me a lot of opportunity to practice writing, but I don’t think, I don’t think it turned me into a writer. [00:03:32] Cory: I [00:03:32] Christina: No, you already were, but, but, but, but it, but yeah. But I think the opportunity to practice is, is probably helpful. [00:03:37] Cory: yeah. And also meeting people and being in an environment where that’s encouraged. I really think of graduate school as like paying an enormous amount of money to larp that you have the job that you wanted to have for, for like two years, which is, I, I had, I had the luxury of being able to do that. Um, but I, what I have always specifically wanted to do is write long form narrative. [00:03:59] Cory: I [00:04:00] wanted to write novels. I, I don’t, I don’t know exactly what it is. I think my best explanation for why is that the stories that have affected me the most that have given me like a real physical, visceral reaction have been books because they can set something up over a long period and then like bring it all together at once in this rush. [00:04:22] Cory: And, uh, so that’s, that’s always been really exciting to me. And so that’s always been what I wanted to do and I’ve just basically spent many years working myself up to that. ’cause writing books is hard. [00:04:34] Jeff: Writing books is like existential. I, I’ve never written a book and everyone I know that has, it’s like a, it’s a journey. It’s a, it’s a dark journey sometimes. A lovely journey. Is that true for you? [00:04:45] Cory: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I, I’m sure that there are some people, I mean, I know that there are some people for whom books are just like, they just, they just write ’em, they just [00:04:55] Brett: Jeremy Robinson. Jeremy Robinson puts out a book like every two months [00:05:00] in their, their bangers, and I don’t know how anyone does that. [00:05:03] Cory: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I have sort of come to grips with the fact that that is not my temperament. Like, I do like writing. I do like, eventually I do like the stuff that I write when I have enough distance from it. But it is a process, especially because I’m already always doing so many things. Uh, you know, maybe if I was locked in a room like they did with Douglas Adams later in his career, I could just like write a book real fast. [00:05:30] Cory: Generally write the first draft really fast and then like. Go insane. Trying to, trying to write the, the, the future drafts and really tear myself [00:05:41] Jeff: oh my God, I have so many process questions. I’m [00:05:43] Jeff: gonna Mental Health Corner [00:05:44] Brett: well, let’s make, let’s make this our mental health corner. Let’s make it all about Corey. [00:05:48] Cory: Yeah. [00:05:50] Brett: And, and I would be curious to know what your mental health was like while writing this last book and what it’s like now that it is officially [00:06:00] released. [00:06:00] Cory: Woo. That’s a good question. I don’t wanna be the only person doing a mental health check-in though. [00:06:06] Christina: Oh, no, no, no, no. We’ll all, no, no, no, no, no. We’ll, we’ll all go. We’ll, we’ll go. [00:06:10] Brett: Do you wanna go first or last then? [00:06:12] Cory: Well, I’m, I’m in your house, so I’ll, I’ll, I’ll do whatever the done thing is. [00:06:18] Brett: Okay, I’ll go first. I’ll kick it off. Uh, I’ll keep mine short. Brett’s Job Update [00:06:23] Brett: Um, my job, we talked last week at length about how messed up my job situation was. Um, I went to therapy for it and my therapist was very helpful in helping me see that my manager that I have so many conflicts with also had some IFS type parts coming up. [00:06:46] Brett: Um, and we were able to kind of hit like a working flow, but at the same time, and don’t tell my manager this, this is private, [00:06:57] Jeff: I think you’re telling your manager this. [00:06:59] Brett: I. [00:07:00] I reached out to a pre, like one of the first managers I ever had who had gotten moved off. There was a whole, like the first major shakeup was when she got moved off to another team. [00:07:11] Brett: Um, and I talked to her and I said, Hey, here’s what I’m doing these days. You know, any other teams that might be able to use that skillset? And she’s like, well, I could. Um, and her headcount is frozen right now, but she thinks she might be able to make an exception. So problem might be solved just by going to a work for a manager I already respect and I already get along with. [00:07:37] Brett: And that, that alone, just knowing that’s a possibility, has made it easier for me to deal with the present, um, and to not be in a constant state of panic and frustration. So, yeah. Uh, think things are better. This week I. [00:07:53] Christina: Good. [00:07:54] Jeff: awesome. What a good thing to hear. [00:07:59] Christina: sure.[00:08:00] [00:08:01] Jeff: Who’s got the birds? It’s such a nice sound. [00:08:03] Brett: thought that was you. [00:08:04] Jeff: No. Fuck no, man. We got nothing [00:08:06] Brett: I think, I think that must be Corey then [00:08:08] Cory: Yes, [00:08:09] Jeff: Thanks for bringing the birds, Corey, [00:08:11] Cory: Yeah, no worries. [00:08:12] Jeff: tropical, uh, Chicago [00:08:14] Brett: Well, and he is got the tropical shirt on too, so it’s just kind of a, [00:08:18] Jeff: it the shirt? Is it the shirt I’m hearing? [00:08:20] Cory: It is, it’s the shirt. The weather here has been wildly unpredictable. This is the time of year where you really can’t predict what the weather is gonna be from moment to moment. And [00:08:30] Brett: was almost 80 here yesterday and tonight it’s gonna snow. [00:08:35] Cory: yeah, yeah. That happened a couple weeks ago here, 80 into snowing. And so you see a lot of people around here, uh, when it’s 80 degrees wearing a sweatshirt. ’cause they’re like, don’t trust [00:08:44] Christina: don’t know. No, [00:08:46] Brett: It’s still March. [00:08:48] Christina: that’s still marsh. No, I mean, and that’s the worst because, uh, at least for me anyway, like my, my sinuses, my, like my allergies really go badly when there’s, uh, sudden weather changes. So if it goes from like really cold to really hot or like, [00:09:00] and the barometric pressure changes, like my migraines go crazy, my sinuses go [00:09:04] Brett: my, my pots and my dizziness get way worse with the barometric changes. Like today, with the barometer shifting the way it is, I’m like, I’m, it’s like I’m drunk walking around the house. I’m tipsy everywhere. But anyway. Jeff, Jeff, why don’t you go. Jeff’s Workshop and Squirrel Saga [00:09:20] Jeff: Uh, I’m, you know, this happens every year, uh, when it’s this time, but yesterday when it was 75, the rest of the week is forties. But, um. I officially opened up my workshop and, uh, and it’s all completely ready for projects. Um, Corey, I have a workshop where I rebuild very old machinery and I do some welding and, and woodwork and just general fuckery. [00:09:44] Jeff: Um, and, and it’s like my favorite thing in the world. It’s my favorite place to be. Um, and I feel most landed in that place. And, and in a time like this, especially being able to kind of open that up and just be sitting in there, it’s the best. And I get to, um, return to a [00:10:00] project I started in the fall, which is rebuilding this a hundred year old, um, lathe for doing metal working. [00:10:05] Jeff: It’s about two tons. Um, and, and it’s, you know, I, I, I cleared out grease, uh, from the Harding administration when I was cleaning it, and now I’m, I’m at the kind of rebuilding point and it’s awesome. And so I bring that, I, I bring that here. I mean, of all the other things, whether it’s medications, therapy, just generally taking care of myself, having a place like that where I feel. [00:10:28] Jeff: That landed, um, is such a huge, huge thing. The problem, which I won’t go into now, but maybe future episodes, is I’m in a prote protracted war with a squirrel that insists on living in my garage. And, um, and I’ve been taking a lot of video. My wife is constantly catches me outside arguing with the squirrel. [00:10:46] Jeff: Um, and it has become a defining, uh, part of my life over the last, uh, I think week and a half as of yesterday, it chewed through a fucking window frame to get back in. Uh, I respect this squirrel. Um, and it’s maybe giving me a, [00:11:00] this is mental health. It’s, it might be giving me a lesson in resilience, um, and durability, uh, in a hard time. [00:11:05] Jeff: So that’s my, there’s my check-in. [00:11:07] Brett: Have you seen the, he’s an engineer. He’s super charismatic. I can’t remember his name. He made the glitter [00:11:13] Cory: Oh, like Mark Rober is, are you, is that [00:11:15] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [00:11:16] Cory: Who [00:11:16] Brett: Didn’t he? Was he the one who Yeah. The squirrel obstacle [00:11:20] Jeff: So good, so Yeah. Okay. I’ll, I’ll link that in the show notes for anyone who hasn’t seen it. [00:11:25] Brett: It is very entertaining. [00:11:29] Jeff: That’s awesome yeah, I, I am sorry that you’re having like, uh, uh, you know, the, this, it seems like the squirrel is winning your, your, your battle. I, I, I am sorry for that. [00:11:37] Jeff: so far. But the situation is fluid. [00:11:41] Cory: I just think it’s, I just think it’s sick that you have a workshop. That’s something that I aspire to for sure. Like [00:11:46] Jeff: It’s uh, [00:11:47] Cory: want that. [00:11:48] Jeff: it’s a lovely place to be. [00:11:50] Brett: I don’t, I don’t have a place for one. Or I would start, like, as I’m able to afford machinery, I would start building a workshop. I would [00:12:00] love to get into woodworking. Uh, I would love to get into metal working. Like I’m super [00:12:05] Jeff: Come up here, I’ll teach you how to weld. [00:12:08] Brett: I know how to weld. I know how to lathe. [00:12:10] Jeff: yeah. You welded in school, didn’t you? [00:12:12] Brett: yeah. Like I know how to do most of that stuff. [00:12:15] Brett: My, I’m a little rusty, [00:12:17] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [00:12:17] Brett: it. I just don’t have any access to the tools. Yep. Got it, got [00:12:22] Cory: teach me how to weld. I don’t know how [00:12:24] Jeff: Come on over. You’re seven hours away by what kind, what kinda welding do you like Jeff? [00:12:29] Jeff: Oh, I do. What is, what is known as the hot glue gun of welding, which is MIG welding. Uh, I would love to learn tig, but, um, I, I don’t have, yeah, it’s not, not my time. [00:12:40] Brett: I, uh, I find a settling torch welding to be very meditative. [00:12:46] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [00:12:47] Brett: and if you’ve never done it on heroin, let me tell you that is, [00:12:51] Jeff: I know. I haven’t tried that yet, [00:12:53] Brett: the most relaxed you’ll ever be. [00:12:56] Jeff: um, [00:12:56] Christina: Okay. I, I’m, I’m just gonna throw this out there for, for any of our, our past or future [00:13:00] advertisers, um, do not do heroin and, uh, and, and, and weld. Like, we’re not recommending that. [00:13:07] Brett: Eh, eh, [00:13:08] Jeff: but that’s like, I disagree. [00:13:10] Brett: I have, I have mult. I am, I have multiple art pieces around my house that, that beg to differ. [00:13:16] Jeff: I think when I think when one has an addiction, everything you do, you do with the addiction alongside, [00:13:21] Christina: I’m, I’m just, I’m, I’m just saying, I’m just saying. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t like this. [00:13:26] Jeff: this is the do not try at home. Warning [00:13:28] Brett: if it wasn’t obvious, I, uh, I have a history of drug addiction. [00:13:33] Cory: Okay. Yeah, I was, I was picking that up. [00:13:36] Jeff: that up, [00:13:37] Brett: You’re tracking with that. [00:13:38] Brett: All right, those writers, those writers don’t miss a thing. [00:13:43] Brett: so Christina, how are you? [00:13:45] Christina: I am doing pretty well. Um, I don’t have a huge update, I guess. Um, and I, and I don’t wanna talk, I don’t wanna get into the, the, the specifics, um, of, of, of anything. Christina’s New Job Experience [00:13:53] Christina: But, you know, I started a new job and, um, and it’s been going pretty well, but it has been a transition and it’s been, um, [00:14:00] it’s been a little bit difficult because. [00:14:02] Christina: My team is all located in other places, and so I feel sort of isolated from, you know, people because I, I have meetings and stuff and I get to, you know, meet people like over a video call, but I haven’t met anyone in person yet, um, except for a, a few of the folks that I worked with before, but I don’t work with them day in and day out, um, in the new job. [00:14:21] Christina: And so, um, but I had a, I had a nice meeting with my, with my manager this week. Um, I’m feeling, um, a little bit better about, about things. Um, but it’s just been sort of a process and so that’s just been kinda my general mental health for the last probably six weeks or so, is just like a lot of changes, a lot of adjustments, a lot of trying to figure out new systems, new ways of working, as well as new expectations and all of that. [00:14:45] Christina: Um, and then doing it in, uh, an environment where, you know, you aren’t, like physically with people, um, is, um, it’s challenging, but I mean, it’s not insurmountable or anything, but it’s, it’s, uh. It’s [00:15:00] different than the way I’ve, than the experiences I’ve had before. Like I’ve worked, you know, um, more remotely from my, uh, other team members, uh, frequently, but usually there were either more opportunities to get to know people like in a, uh, you know, non-work or even work context, or you at least had like one person that you knew like in real life, so you could, you know, kind of use that as a way to kind of, you know, bridge stuff. [00:15:26] Christina: Uh, this has been, uh, a little bit different. And so that’s, that’s been the thing that I’ve kind of been, uh, struggling with because, uh, and, and I, I have even greater empathy for people who like started new jobs in 2020 when everybody was, was completely, you know, isolated and, and remote because, I don’t know, uh. [00:15:44] Christina: I, I don’t think I would’ve been able to survive that if, especially if I wouldn’t have been able to go outside. Like, I don’t think that, that I would’ve been okay with that at all. But, uh, but no, but things are, things are improving and I, I like my manager a lot and I’m, you know, hopeful about kind of like where things are going is just a, a lot of [00:16:00] trying to sort out, okay, what are the things that I need to do? [00:16:03] Christina: What are the things I want to do? How do all these systems work? How can I influence getting to know and get to meet the right people? Because it is just a completely different, uh, world that I’m in from, you know, what I was used to before, which I, I, I knew the systems and the people really well, so it’s just been an adjustment. [00:16:22] Brett: Can I ask a personal question? Um, and tell me if I dig too deep. Um, ’cause this, this question could be a trigger for me. Um, but so when I’m in situations where I’m dealing with so many unknowns in like my professional life, in my personal life, I become very, uh, we’ll say inaccessible. Like I just don’t have room to be a good partner. [00:16:48] Brett: Um, and I end up leaning on my partner very heavily to like, help me regulate all the stress. How, how are you doing with all of these unknowns, [00:17:00] with all of this? Like, I, I mean, it’s stressful whether it’s like a rough situation or not. It’s stressful figuring all this out. How, how are you doing at home? [00:17:11] Christina: Um, I’m okay. I mean, I think that it, that things could, could be better, but I think things are okay. I think that I’m probably similar to you and that I just don’t have as much space to be able to give to other things. And so, uh, even not at home, just like my other relationships, frankly, have kind of fallen off a little bit. [00:17:28] Christina: Like some of them, you know, my more like surface like friendships, like, you know, the group chats are pinging like a thousand times a day, and that’s really helpful. But like anything more substantive, I don’t really have. Space for that at the moment. So, yeah, I mean, I think [00:17:42] Brett: Is your, is your partner forgiving about that? [00:17:44] Christina: Yeah, I think so. [00:17:45] Christina: I mean, I, but I, there’s also not really a, a, um, a choice in the matter, if that makes any [00:17:52] Brett: Sure, sure. That doesn’t, yeah, that doesn’t always mean it’s easy, but yeah. Okay. Thank you. Um, [00:18:00] all right, Corey, you’re, you are no longer the only one to go. [00:18:04] Cory: All right. Hell yeah. Thank you. Thank you for showing me the way. [00:18:08] Jeff: Oh yes, yes. Come along further. Now let us go to this room. [00:18:16] Cory: Uh, yeah. Corey’s Mental Health and Medication [00:18:17] Cory: So this month has been a maelstrom of events and responsibilities and travel, um, and the highest emotional highs and the lowest lows. I, um, I take, I take medication for bipolar. I, I I, I [00:18:43] Cory: feel to the club. [00:18:44] Cory: I, I feel weird about saying specific brand names because I feel like I’m advertising. But I will say that I took, I took antidepressants, various antidepressants for a long time, and none of them really felt like they were doing anything. [00:18:59] Cory: And, [00:19:00] uh, that taking just like a relatively low dose of a, of a, of a bipolar medication completely changed the game for me. Like I. I, I used to struggle a lot with suicidal ideation and just like, you know, the, the smallest things would send me into a pit of despair. Uh, and I’m doing a lot better with that. [00:19:20] Cory: The, uh, the problem is I’m very dependent on that medication, and so if I forget to take it for a day, like there will come apart, there will come a time in the next day where I will just completely crater and not know why for several hours and then be like, oh, oh, I see that, that happened to me a couple of days ago. [00:19:43] Cory: And it, it coincided with me trying to like, work on my next creative project and like ending up lying on the floor, being like, why am I even doing this? This is so fucked. I, like, I, why did I even try and do this in the first place? It’s broken, it’s gonna take me seven more years. And, [00:20:00] uh, and then, and then like, it wasn’t until like I had to go do something else, I had to go pick up my little brother. [00:20:05] Cory: Uh, and I was like driving on the way there and I was like. Oh, oh, I see what’s happening. [00:20:13] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [00:20:14] Christina: Yep. Yeah, I think we, I think we’ve all had those moments. Uh, like, uh, if, if you’re on something, especially if it has like a shorter half-life where you start to feel either the withdrawal effects or like the lack of the medicine working one or the other, and you’re like, oh, okay. Um, this is what’s going on. [00:20:30] Christina: Um, it, it’s not, not not to compare the two ’cause they’re different, but it is some similar, like, there will come a time like every month where I will be like going through something emotional or, or feeling a certain way and I’ll be like, oh, right, right, right. Okay. I’m on my period. That’s what this is. [00:20:45] Jeff: Mm. [00:20:46] Jeff: Yeah. is, it, I think it is similar. I think it’s ’cause it’s a, it, it, it takes a little bit for, for, for my conscious mind, certainly to catch up to whatever the sort of chemical state of my mind is. [00:20:57] Christina: Yes. [00:20:59] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, [00:20:59] Brett: I, [00:21:00] we don’t, we don’t have to mention names, but I will because it is generic. Uh, but I take Lamotrigine for bipolar and [00:21:09] Cory: do I. [00:21:09] Brett: there you go. [00:21:10] Jeff: that’s, that’s three of four of us. [00:21:13] Brett: and, [00:21:13] Jeff: Christina, we can send you some. [00:21:15] Brett: Our guest. [00:21:16] Christina: I’m [00:21:17] Cory: No, don’t take some, because, because it true, it’s true. That part of the problem is the withdrawal. Like I, I do feel weird that I’m like [00:21:23] Cory: fully addicted to it is. Yep. That’s where I was gonna go. ’cause our, our guest last week also takes Lamotrigine. So this is basically a Lamotrigine podcast at this point. Is this the moine, uh, corner but I, I will get, if I miss my dose of Lamotrigine, I will, it’ll take about eight hours, but I will get all skin crawly and it’ll feel like, it’ll feel like withdrawal and, and I’ll get crabby and cranky and then the mood swings will, like, I won’t regulate as well. [00:21:57] Brett: Like ups become real ups and [00:22:00] downs become real downs and Yeah. Like I have gone, it, it is, I have, there have been times I have not realized I missed a dose until the next dose, [00:22:09] Christina: Right. Be because you didn’t feel it. Um, I, I was on a, an on an antidepressant, um, uh, fl lie, Effexor, I guess would be the, um, uh, professional, uh, name or, or the commercial name. And I’m not a, I’m not on this anymore, so this is not a, a advertisement, but I was on it for like, the better part of 20 years. And, uh, it has an incredibly short half-life, like to, to the point that it’s a problem. [00:22:32] Christina: Like you will, you’ll feel the withdrawal like quick and, and it is, and it is a bad withdrawal. And so I got, I had to get very good about not forgetting my meds because it would be like four hours that you would start to, like, I would start to feel like. You know, like wanting to peel my skin off and, and like the, like the bitchiness would like come out like times 10 and it would be like, oh, okay. [00:22:53] Christina: To the point that actually that medicine wasn’t working for me anymore and I needed to get off of it. And like, it was a very [00:23:00] protracted process to get off of it because the withdrawal was like not great. But, uh, so, which is all to say like, everyone, like take your meds at the right schedule. Like don’t fuck up your body [00:23:10] Brett: this is, this is, this is a frequent topic for us. Well, and I. [00:23:13] Cory: Take your meds on the right schedule and the smallest amount that you can get away with [00:23:17] Christina: 1000%. Yeah, I agree. I agree. [00:23:20] Jeff: even pulling back from specifics, I think the, one of the hard things about, like I, you know, I started, I think my first experience with medication was around 2020, like that 2020 is what we’re gonna call it. Um, and I think that like what usually leads to, in my case, what leads to me being, you know, prescribed a medication is something that I start to realize is like. [00:23:45] Jeff: Really off, but maybe can be helped rather than just being this like static thing that’s part of me. And so then you get the medication and there’s a little bit of relief if it’s working. Um, and, and I think I let my guard down a little bit and I forget to sort of be witness to myself. And, and [00:24:00] usually then when I notice something similar to what you were saying, Corey is, it’s like, and, and Brett, it’s, it’s the point at which my skin is crawling. [00:24:07] Jeff: And, and then I’m like, oh my God, how did I miss this? You know? Um, and, and I just like think that that experience, I was diagnosed with bipolar in 2021. And, um, one thing that came out of that that was just wonderful is I, I learned a lot about red flags. I learned a lot about where I could trust myself, but more importantly where I could trust that I couldn’t trust myself. [00:24:31] Jeff: Um, which was painful at first, but then became. Kind of, I don’t know. It, it’s great. It’s like any, I, I look for those opportunities now inside of these experiences to be like, okay, what have I learned about myself and, and, and how can I hold that without, uh, without, you know, this context of I’m broken, right. [00:24:48] Jeff: Just kind of like, anyway, but the specific to the ultra ultra gene, if I am, if I’m 36 hours out or less from having taken one, I am a, I am a mess. It is a [00:25:00] very, very unpleasant experience. So let us all remember. Yeah. It’s scary. It’s scary. [00:25:05] Cory: to be dependent on something like [00:25:07] Jeff: Yes. Yes, yes. Yeah. [00:25:09] Christina: we talk about that a lot too. Like, like there’s, there’s like a, like the, at least for me anyway, the, the, um, dichotomy between like knowing you need these things, uh, to function and to live. And then like, also be independent on these things where, you know, like, at least in my mind, like I, I, I have this stupid notion like, oh, I should be able to just control this myself. [00:25:30] Christina: And, and it’s like, no, but you actually can’t. Uh, that’s not how, um, the biology works. And, and that’s not how like, you know, like, like brain chemistry works. We can’t just will ourselves into these things. That’s, that’s, that’s not possible. Um, but at the same time, knowing it’s like, okay, there are these things that we put into our bodies that can have, uh, positive or negative, um, you know, impacts on how we act. [00:25:53] Christina: And that’s kind of a, that’s cool, but that’s also kind of fucked up too. You know. [00:25:58] Cory: yeah, yeah. I. [00:25:59] Brett: I am [00:26:00] demonstrating great restraint by not re by not making a heroin joke at this Oh, well, I was gonna [00:26:05] Christina: I was gonna say, I. [00:26:06] Cory: say something about heroin actually. [00:26:08] Jeff: Okay, well go. [00:26:10] Cory: I, I, I was, yeah, well, I, I have a complicated relationship with like the, the idea of substance dependency because my brother died of a heroin [00:26:18] Brett: oh my gosh. sorry to hear that. [00:26:21] Cory: Um, yeah. Yeah. It was a hell of a year. [00:26:25] Brett: Yeah, I’m sorry. I’m sorry if I’m making light of it. I, [00:26:28] Cory: no, I mean, that was, that was eight years of my life, but I, uh, I fortunately survived. I, uh, I can relate though. [00:26:36] Cory: I make jokes about it all the time. Not about my brother specifically, but about [00:26:40] Brett: Sure. [00:26:42] Cory: Um, so it’s not, it’s not a big deal. It does get me sometimes, but, um, especially ’cause there’s a lot of, heroin has showed up in a lot of weird ways in my life throughout, throughout time. But, um, yeah, I have a, I have a weird relationship to substance [00:27:00] dependency because of that. [00:27:01] Cory: Because, uh, you know, I don’t, I don’t wanna end up that same way. [00:27:07] Christina: Right. [00:27:08] Cory: Um, and the book, the book is actually partially dedicated to him too. I think. I think he, I think he really would’ve dug it. And there’s some stuff in the book about, you know, watching someone who’s close to you sort of not be able to help themselves in a way. [00:27:23] Jeff: Older brother or younger brother? [00:27:25] Cory: brother. Much older. Yeah. I a half brother. [00:27:28] Jeff: Okay. [00:27:28] Brett: Is your brother George, was your brother, George? [00:27:32] Cory: Uh, George. Oh no, George is my grandfather. [00:27:37] Brett: Oh, okay. Case. Case Wine Yeah. My grandfather also died in 2016. [00:27:43] Christina: Oh, I’m so [00:27:43] Jeff: Really? Oh my God. [00:27:45] Cory: a hell of a year actually. Yeah. I, one of my, my, my, my only regret in terms of that dedication page is it should be dedicated to three people. It should be dedicated to case George, uh, and my buddy from grad school, Ryan, who killed himself the same year.[00:28:00] [00:28:00] Cory: Um, he was an amazing writer and, uh, it was, yeah, it’s something that I still think about all the time, obviously, but yeah, it was just a, just a real wave of tragedy. [00:28:13] Jeff: Yeah. [00:28:14] Brett: We could also do a whole episode on suicidal ideation that could get really dark really fast. So we’re gonna avoid that since this is, this is technically part of your yeah. Yeah. Right, right. [00:28:26] Christina: I was gonna, I was, I was gonna say. Yeah. But, but, but you’re, you’re mentioning like at, at the top, like you’ve had some like the, you know, like highest highs and like lowest lows. Promoting the Novel [00:28:33] Christina: Um, and I don’t want you to get into the specifics of, of either of those, but can you talk a little bit about, since this is, um, this isn’t your first book, but this is your first, um, novel, like what has the, the process been in terms of promoting this and like sharing with, with, with the world and like, you know, um, uh, I guess like, uh, dealing with feedback on, on what you’ve obviously put a lot of, uh, time into and, and [00:28:53] Christina: have been wanting to do for a long time. [00:28:55] Cory: Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, it’s, it’s been, it’s been super cool. It’s like [00:29:00] I, I, I had sort of picked as a semi arbitrary thing that I wanted to publish a novel by the time I was 35. I’m 35, [00:29:07] Jeff: Nice. [00:29:08] Cory: novel, so I feel like I, I achieved the thing that I wanted to achieve. Um, and you know, on, on the one hand, there’s a lot of like excitement and pride associated with that. [00:29:19] Cory: You know, when I look, when I like, reread the parts of the book now I’m like, oh, this is actually good. Like this book’s actually good. And that’s, that’s cool. After doubting myself so much. Um, and it’s cool, you know, I went, I, I was in, I was in New York for part of the book tour and, um, it was, it was great to like have some, have a bunch of old friends show up to the book thing. [00:29:40] Cory: And also people that I didn’t know who the publisher brought or whoever, I had a really cool talk at the book event there with, um, Maddie Lipsky, who’s a really talented like writer and, and comic artists and stuff. And she, she interviewed me for that. It was really cool getting to meet her that, you know, that left me with a lot of energy. [00:29:59] Cory: Uh, I [00:30:00] went straight from there to Michigan and did a book event in Michigan. Um, and four people showed up to that. [00:30:08] Jeff: Book events, huh? Am. [00:30:09] Cory: but one of them was someone who used to read my blog back in the day [00:30:14] Christina: That’s so [00:30:15] Cory: that like, made me so happy that it didn’t, like it didn’t matter at all. Like, and, and the audience for all that. [00:30:23] Cory: It was small. It was, it was like great audience. Everybody had, everybody had questions like it ruled. Um, and so, so I’ve had, I’ve had experiences like that. I’ve also had at least one book event where the room just felt dead, just absolutely dead. And I sort of felt like I, I sort of felt like a presenter in a pyramid scheme where I was like, every, you had to buy, you had to buy my book ’cause you’re here, but it doesn’t matter whether you read it, you just have to buy it. [00:30:50] Cory: Uh, and that that left me feeling really low, left me feeling like a fraud and a scoundrel. You know, so like, it’s, it’s really, really both ends of the [00:31:00] spectrum, especially because, you know, once you crest the hill, once I crest the hill, I just see the next hill. I don’t really like, feel as if I’ve achieved something anymore because I’ve already, because I’ve already achieved [00:31:13] Christina: You’ve already done it. So, so, so, so, so then you’re like, well, what’s the next thing? Right? Like, like, well, well, what’s the next goal? [00:31:18] Cory: yeah. Which is make makes it easy to feel like I’m right back where I started, [00:31:21] Christina: right. I was gonna say like, I hope you can take some time to like internalize and like be so proud of like, what you’ve accomplished and then like that you did like, set like that arbitrary goal, you know, publish your first novel by 35 and you did it right. [00:31:31] Christina: And you’re like, you know, you have like a big publisher and you’re like, your book is out there and being read and like, you know, people are are, you know, somebody who like read your blog, like showed, you know what I mean? Like, I hope that, like that, that, I hope you can internalize and, and like feel like pride in that. [00:31:45] Christina: ’cause I think that’s really incredible. [00:31:48] Cory: Well, thank you. Yeah. In, in my best moments. I do. [00:31:53] Brett: Yeah, I think we understand. [00:31:55] Christina: Um, so, so, so for our listeners, do you wanna give us a little bit of an overview, just kinda like the, the high [00:32:00] level of, of what your book is about and um. [00:32:03] Brett: Yeah. Let’s move into, let’s move into the two true and lie discussion. [00:32:07] Cory: Yeah, let’s talk about it. So Two Truths and a Lie is a cyberpunk noir story set in a nearish future Los Angeles that is partially underwater, where information has replaced money. People buy, sell, and trade memories, and it focuses on this nasty old man, this war veteran named or. Who kind of gets dragged into the middle of a high profile murder investigation when it turns out it has something to do with an old lover of his, and it kind of goes from there. [00:32:48] Cory: That’s the, that’s the book. How’s that? I’ve practiced that a [00:32:50] Christina: No, no, I, I was [00:32:52] Jeff: A. [00:32:52] Christina: I was gonna say, you did a great job. So, so I, I have not read the whole thing. Brett has read it twice. I have not read the whole thing, but, um, what, [00:33:00] what I have read it, it was interesting. Um, and, and the pitch is, is, is perfect. It was so interesting to me. Um, and even the way that you described, um, it just now, but like, from what I read, like it makes sense that you’ve worked on, on games because a lot of, and, and I, I mean this in a very positive way. [00:33:15] Christina: I wanna be clear. Like, when I read this, I was thinking, I was like, oh, you know what? I could see a great game being based on this sort of thing. Um, and, and, and to me that’s like actually like, uh, that, that, that’s me giving a compliment because that’s, I love adaptations. I love to things, see things like that. [00:33:31] Christina: But I, in my head, I was kind of envisioning, I was like, this could be like a really interesting narrative game in some regards. And, um, I, I am curious like. Inspiration and World-Building [00:33:40] Christina: What your inspiration was in terms of how you were going about kind of creating the world that this takes place in. ’cause it is new, near future and, and you know, what your process was in terms of coming up with like, what’s the, the technology that they’re using and, and what’s kind of what, what are the differences and, and the similarities between what we have and, and, um, [00:34:00] how, how, how did, uh, what was your process for, for coming up with that stuff? [00:34:04] Cory: well, I, I definitely take it as a compliment that it would, it would make a good game. I like games, obviously. I play a lot of games and I think of the, the writing of a book, at least as, as the playing of a game, [00:34:20] Jeff: Mm. [00:34:20] Cory: to some degree. I had a, I had a, an instructor who I really, uh, admired in graduate school who. [00:34:27] Cory: Said basically that in order to write to the end of a book, you have to construct a sort of game for yourself. You have to have some rules that allow you to play out and generate the novel because writing an entire book is like an impossible task to conceptualize, right? It’s like so many words and so many events and, and so much stuff. [00:34:52] Cory: It’s very hard to like hold in your head at once. But hu I think human beings in general, certainly [00:35:00] me in particular, are able to hold very complex game structures in their heads and understand all of the sort of weights and balances, uh, and, and systems involved in a game. And so I kind of play these little games with myself, um, or sometimes rope other people into playing these games with me. [00:35:21] Cory: So the original idea for the story came when I was in grad school and somebody brought in, I went, I went to art school. This is important for understanding this story. Uh, ’cause in one of my classes, one of the other students brought in, uh, a book that she had sewed out of $1 bills. And she was like, this shows how information has become our new currency. Uh, [00:35:51] Brett: totally an art school [00:35:52] Cory: yeah, it’s a very [00:35:52] Christina: totally is [00:35:53] Cory: project. Uh, and I, and I was like, oh, but what if actually though? Like, [00:36:00] what if for real? And so I started spinning out like, well, what would it actually take? And, and I’ve, I’ve always really liked noir A mystery Seemed like a really natural place to explore that kind of thing, right? [00:36:13] Cory: Because information is already so important in a mystery. And so I started trying to build this out and it was really difficult. To, to make it all line up because it’s a, it is, it is very different from how our world currently works in some ways. In some ways there’s a lot of overlap. But one of the things that I would do is I would talk to people about it, and I would tell them, like, I’ve got this worked out. [00:36:38] Cory: Here’s what I, here, here’s how it works. And they would very understandably ask me a lot of questions about it. That, and, and I would not know the answers to those questions, but I would act like I knew the answers to those questions and I would answer them. And by doing that enough times, I eventually sort of built out an understanding of how this world was supposed to work.[00:37:00] [00:37:00] Cory: And I built out the story by asking myself questions like that. Um, [00:37:04] Jeff: Is that what you mean when you say making it all line up? Just making sure it essentially makes sense and everything follows a thread. Every little piece [00:37:12] Cory: Yeah, I, I try to be very meticulous about that. I like, I. I don’t think that that’s a requirement to write a story. I don’t think everybody has to be really meticulous about it, but I, [00:37:24] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:37:24] Cory: I cannot be, I, I cannot allow myself to leave a, leave a loose thread or a plot hole. That kind of stuff really bothers me. [00:37:33] Cory: So, so, yeah, so like a lot of it was stitching up holes and patching things and bringing things together, which is tough because as, as you start, as I would start to revise something, if I changed one thing, then it, you know, changes something overweight in a different part of the fabric that I’ve gotta, like, bring into line, everything gets destabilized and then it’s gotta, gotta remake it all over again. [00:37:55] Jeff: Um, a friend of mine is, he is a author, a Raphael Johnson. He wrote a [00:38:00] great book called The Through, which I really recommend, but he had a theater background and, and so I’m, I’m obsessed with process and I could ask you questions about process all day. And like I said earlier, I’m gonna just ask a couple only, but he had this really great, I use this all the time in my own work. [00:38:14] Jeff: He had this, he has this great way of going over hi. His writing. When he is done, it’s like a theater person. He goes, I’m gonna do a lighting pass now I’m gonna do a wardrobe pass. I’m gonna do a sound pass. Right? Like, I’m gonna do all these passes, uh, settings pass. Um, so he is going through the book over and over with just that bit. [00:38:32] Jeff: Like it little different from making it line up, but just making sure that he’s created the world that is as kind of full as it is in his brain, but has gotten it to the page. You, you’re describing something that like fits into a category. Uh, with that for me, [00:38:44] Cory: Ian Fleming would do the same thing, uh, from what I understand, would write, write through the book, and just get the plot beats in place. And then the second pass was like, everyone’s like, what kind of watches is everyone’s wearing? [00:38:55] Cory: And like [00:38:56] Jeff: Very important. The Bond [00:38:57] Cory: and all of that, like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. [00:39:00] Uh, there’s a, there’s a really great quote that I like from Walter Mosley, who’s a noir writer that I really admire. He wrote, uh, devil in a Blue Dress, I think is, [00:39:10] Christina: Great book or screenplay rather. Yeah. [00:39:13] Cory: and, uh, and, and he was answering the question, how do you know when a book is done? [00:39:19] Cory: How do you know when you’re, you’re done drafting? And he said, what I would do is I would write a draft and I would read it, I’d see what was wrong with it, and go back and fix it. And then I’d read it and I’d see what was wrong with it. And I’d go back and fix it. And then I’d read it again and I’d see what was wrong with it. [00:39:41] Cory: I’d have no idea how to fix it. And that’s how I knew I was done. And I was like that, that I, I hold onto a lot because I can be such a perfectionist about things. And at a certain point, I just have to be like, the problems that remain are beyond my ability to solve.[00:40:00] [00:40:00] Jeff: yeah, yeah. But you also have to, I mean, the resilience that always amazes me about people who go through and finish a novel is like, you just described this cycle, but I always wonder, okay, when you hit that point where you’re like, eh, there’s something wrong with it. That can be a, like an existential crisis, right? [00:40:16] Jeff: Like, but then somehow you lift yourself up and go, I’m doing another pass. It’s like, almost like it’s very masochistic. [00:40:23] Cory: yeah, yeah. It’s, you have to believe that there’s something at the end of that, right? Like you have to, and this, this happens in making games too. Making games is a similarly torturous process. It can be, [00:40:37] Jeff: With the extra layer of the studio. [00:40:40] Cory: yeah. Well, even if you’re making a game by yourself, like, uh, games are so complex and every game is different from every other game. [00:40:47] Cory: Even more so than every novel is different from, from any other novel. You’re very much building the plane as you’re flying the plane. But the, uh, the thing that helps with both of them, with any kind of creative project for me is to have [00:41:00] some spark somewhere of what this thing is about. Like William Gibson, I think once, once said that he would write the first line of his book and he would never change the first line after he had written the [00:41:13] Jeff: Oh [00:41:13] Cory: I can’t do that. Um, I, I have definitely changed the first line of all, everything that I’ve ever written, but there has to be something that doesn’t change. There has to be something that gives the thing its identity that to hold onto so that no matter how much it changes, no matter how many drafts there are, there’s a way to know that I’m making progress. [00:41:39] Jeff: yeah. [00:41:39] Brett: S speaking of Gibson, um, okay, so I read a lot of cyberpunk, um, and I read a lot of Gibson. And when I first started, uh, to truth and a lie, I immediately thought this is Gibson esque. And then I had to ask myself what that meant because. [00:42:00] These days, like current Gibson, I don’t even consider Gibson esque. Uh, when I say Gibson esque, I mean Mona Lisa overdrive. [00:42:10] Brett: I mean, like early days, I mean like way back to like 400 boys Bruce Sterling era stuff. Um, like that to me is like the, the, or what used to be called hard, hard sf like hard sci-fi. Um, and that like when I started two Truths and a lie, I was immediately imbued with this sense of the old school cyberpunk feel. [00:42:36] Brett: But it’s more developed, like once you get into it, it’s richer than old, old cyberpunk used to be. So I felt like you, you straddled the line between what I would consider quote unquote Gibson esque, um, and like a, a more heartfelt. Novel. So I guess the question would be like, how do you [00:43:00] see this falling into kind of the pantheon of cyberpunk literature? [00:43:05] Cory: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a good question and I definitely take it as a compliment to, to have it be described as Gibson esque, like definitely I have been inspired by the velocity. Gibson’s early writing, the way that his prose moves. One of those visceral experiences when I, that I was describing earlier when I was talking about how books made me feel was Mona Lisa Overdrive. [00:43:29] Cory: There’s a passage in it. I can’t even remember what the passage was. I just remember, I remember where I was sitting when I was reading it, and I remember like closing the book for a moment and just going like, because it just like had such energy. Um, but I think, you know, that for me was a starting point in terms of one of my influences and how my, my, my, my prose writing developed over time. [00:43:55] Cory: But it was very much a starting point for me because there are also things that I struggle [00:44:00] with, with Gibson’s early writing. Um, and I, I, I remain a huge fan of Gibson. I love, I I love some of his more recent work too. Like the peripheral I [00:44:07] Cory: find Absolutely. [00:44:09] Cory: Um, some of, some like neuro answer the first time that I picked it up. [00:44:14] Cory: I, I got like a couple chapters in and I put it back down because there is this paragraph where like, it’s like half in reality and half in a hologram, and you can’t really tell what’s going on because the, the pros is so dense. And I, I was like, I just can’t, I just can’t parse this. This is stressing me out a little bit. [00:44:33] Cory: And I, and I put it down, I came back to it, I think after I read Snow Crash. Um, [00:44:38] Brett: Yeah. Steven Stevenson’s a nice break from Gibson. [00:44:41] Cory: And I, I blew through. I love Stevenson too. Um, and I, and I, yeah, and I, and then I, and then I blew through Neuro Me and I kind of got it, uh, a little bit more. But yeah, I wanted, I wanted to preserve the vividness and the momentum of the language, um, and create more clarity, but I [00:45:00] also wanted to develop my own aesthetic. [00:45:03] Cory: You know, Gibson’s, Gibson’s writing is very much like that. Early writing comes out of like, right, isn’t it like eighties Toronto Street culture? [00:45:12] Brett: Yeah, [00:45:13] Cory: Um, and I don’t have any experience with eighties Toronto Street culture. So it very much comes out of like my aesthetic more and the people that I grew up with and the, and, and what grime meant to me growing up, because there’s a lot of grime in the book for sure. [00:45:28] Cory: Um, and then, but like, but, but again, like having that core of something to know what you’re working on, part of the core of it for me is what I think of as the core of cyberpunk. It’s not the chrome or the laser whips or whatever. It’s, uh, it’s the stories of people who can’t afford space travel, [00:45:49] Jeff: Oh, Right on. Right on. [00:45:51] Cory: That’s, I, I, that’s, that’s not original to me. I think Bruce Sterling wrote that in the introduction to Burning Chrome, but I, but it stuck with me, [00:46:00] um, because it’s like, it, this is the, what, what it is about is it’s, it’s working class science fiction, you know, like it’s, and, and, and that’s what I’ve tried to hold onto is like, it doesn’t have the same technology. [00:46:13] Cory: You know, one thing that’s really changed, I think in the way that we think about, um, cyberpunk is the concept of cyberspace. The Evolution of Cyberspace [00:46:20] Cory: Uh, because cyberspace is no longer a place the way that it was when, when, when Gibson was first writing, like the internet used to be a place that you went. [00:46:30] Jeff: Yeah. [00:46:31] Cory: and now the internet is just sort of this, this like sludgy mist that surrounds us at all times. [00:46:40] Cory: This sort of ever present fog, uh, that both reveals and obscures. And, uh, and so having it, having it be more of a layer, more of an ever present thing that really changes the whole like way that a, that a world works. And I think a lot of other things follow from that. And I think that’s, that’s part of, [00:47:00] part of what is going on in two truths and lies is that, you know, that, that that technical world has so merged with the physical world that people are just, you know, buying and selling and giving up and trading their memories. [00:47:10] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:47:47] Brett: la of like sidewalks and green spaces with a woman who was alive then, but didn’t have the technology to capture that memory at the time. And that memory is the [00:48:00] most valuable thing he can offer her, whereas it might not be worth anything to the next guy. But like he has, he has, and, and in the book or of, is dirt poor? [00:48:14] Brett: I mean, all things considered, uh, he’s, he’s barely surviving. Uh, he’s living at the bottom of society. Um, but he has a couple of memories that in the right context are super valuable. Economics of Memory [00:48:29] Brett: So how do you see, how do you see the economic impact of, of having, of memory versus what we consider currency right now? [00:48:42] Cory: Well, it, it, it, it definitely works differently than we’re used to. Money. Working money is traditionally fungible. Every dollar is the same as every other dollar. But also, you know, money is a really [00:49:00] elaborate fiction. Money. The, the, the, the idea in theory about money is that like I could go and turn it into gold if I really wanted to. [00:49:10] Cory: That hasn’t been true in a very, very [00:49:12] Cory: long time. Right now, now it’s just sort of like, well, why would you ever, you just trade the money? Um, but kind of the way that the information functions in the book is as, as a more directly backed currency, right? Each piece of currency can be traded. They can just be traded by file size if that’s what people wanna do. [00:49:31] Cory: A lot of the, a lot of the, the exchange takes place in the form of demographics ’cause they are pretty fungible. It’s just like a bunch of people’s software or, uh, soft drink preferences or whatever. And you, you, you trade those back and forth basically the way that you would trade fiat currency. Um, but all, all data has an end point where it’s uniquely val valuable. [00:49:53] Cory: Uh, which means that like there is not a separate vault. That all of the [00:50:00] money corresponds to the information is kind of its own vault. It carries its own vault with it, it carries its own value. Um, because, you know, eventually this piece of information is going to be genuinely useful to somebody, uh, which enables more of a, kind of an, a narco synthesist, uh, government a little bit going on in, in this, in this version of Los Angeles, where it doesn’t, there, there doesn’t need to be a central authority that says this information is valuable because the information is all valuable to somebody. [00:50:35] Brett: Sure. Yeah. No, I like that. I like that [00:50:38] Jeff: What, did you start with this book? Did you start with that? Did you start with that as this sort of rough idea, this kind of economy of memory? Or did you Yeah. Where did it start? [00:50:47] Cory: Um, the, yeah, the idea was I wanted information to be currency in some way. That was the kernel of the idea. And as, as, as I had to [00:51:00] actually make plot decisions, it gradually became clearer and clearer what that meant. Um, you know, originally it was a little bit more depersonalized, if I’m remembering correctly. [00:51:11] Cory: It was a little bit more like you had piles of data, but you, they weren’t necessarily your memories. And then over time, I started to realize like, part of the reason that we don’t pay money for most information now is because. It’s infinitely duplicatable. Uh, and so to have information function as currency, it has to, it has to be handled better than NFTs were handled where you could just right click and, and save the jpeg. [00:51:43] Cory: Like it has to actually be like a, like almost an object that only one person can possess. Uh, and so that’s kind of where the idea of, uh, taking and giving and removing memories came in. [00:51:57] Jeff: Yeah. Because when you pay someone a [00:52:00] memory in this world, you lose that memory [00:52:03] Cory: Right? [00:52:04] Brett: and it, it is not, it’s not duplicatable. Is that, I can’t remember. In, in the world of the book, is that a choice? Like, can memories be duplicated? [00:52:18] Cory: Uh, memories cannot be duplicated if they are, if they are minted to trade [00:52:26] Brett: Okay, so they are, they are, they are. The idea of NFTs, not the execution Yeah, yeah, yeah. Imagine. Imagine if, [00:52:35] Brett: Right, In this economy, what would money laundering [00:52:39] Cory: oh, that’s, you’d have to read the book to find [00:52:41] Jeff: Oh, good. Good. Queer Love Story in Fiction [00:52:44] Brett: So another, another topic is the kind of queer love story at the center of this novel, and I read a lot of queer fiction and the stuff I appreciate about the best of queer [00:53:00] fiction is that it doesn’t have to recognize that it’s queer. Um, it just sees like this is, this is a man who loves another man. [00:53:09] Brett: This is, this is a man who can love either gender, all genders equally. Like it doesn’t have to be brought out as a, as a you. You don’t have to draw attention to it. It just is, um, this character isn’t gay. This character is just a character. Um, and ORs love interest in this story is another man. But it becomes clear in the reading that Orv is not impervious to the wiles of the, the feminine kind. [00:53:42] Brett: Um, he is, as far in my reading of it, he’s pansexual if bisexual, if not pansexual. Um, and I appreciate that. That’s never, uh, elucidated like that never needs to even be [00:54:00] stated. It just is. Um, and from our, our pre-show conversation, my interpretation, and I don’t need you to, to confirm or deny this, my interpretation is that you’re a straight man writing queer fiction. [00:54:17] Brett: Um, and you’re, you’re welcome to, you’re welcome to debate me or to correct me on that. But, um, I think it was a really well done queer love story. [00:54:30] Cory: Uh, well, I, not that I, not that I have to answer your question, but the way I would answer your, I, I, I’m, I’m still going to, uh. I am, I, I am a, I am a cis man, married to a cis woman who has loved men. That, that, that is how I would, how I would describe myself. Um, and or is or, or does not exactly one-to-one map to my own predilections, [00:55:00] but, or Yeah. [00:55:00] Cory: ’cause Aura is definitely a disaster. Pansexual. He, uh, [00:55:05] Brett: I like that. [00:55:07] Cory: uh, [00:55:07] Jeff: Did you create that? [00:55:09] Cory: no, [00:55:09] Jeff: Okay. This is not a term I’ve heard, and it’s an [00:55:11] Jeff: amazing I’ve, I’ve, I’ve heard disaster bisexual. I’ve never, I, I don’t know that I’ve heard, but [00:55:17] Christina: was gonna say, I’ve, I’ve heard disaster buy Disaster pan though. I like, I I I [00:55:20] Cory: yeah. I feel like, I feel like it’s, I don’t, I don’t feel like that’s much of an innovation to say that, [00:55:25] Christina: but, but, but I like the riff anyway. I’m just, I’m just saying. I’m just, it’s, it’s a good riff. [00:55:29] Cory: Um, but yeah, so he, yeah, he, he loves who he loves and I think that, uh. [00:55:36] Cory: I kind of, I think I kind of took some inspiration from other noir for that. There’s a, there’s a Raymond Chandler book that I really love called, uh, farewell My Lovely. And you think of these private detectives as like, oh, they’re, they’re men’s men and they’re making out with all the women, and they’re, you know, and then, and then, and then they punch all the guys. [00:55:57] Cory: Uh, and [00:56:00] you know, Philip Marlow, for the most part is like that. He’s really kind of scornful and horny with all the women in the story at the same time. But there’s this beautiful moment where he like meets this dude on the docks, this, this, this gorgeous man with violet eyes. And, and he, he like gets this guy’s help to get him onto a boat. [00:56:22] Cory: And they spend a long time in the dark on this boat. [00:56:25] Jeff: Hmm. [00:56:25] Cory: He and he talks to the guy about how scared he is about this boat that he’s going on to, and the guy is like comforting him and trying to take care of him. And he, you know, he describes this guy, he keeps talking about his eyes and he keeps describing how he is the nicest man that he’s ever met. [00:56:41] Cory: And like, you know, and they touch and all of it. Like, and I don’t know, I, I really don’t know how intentional it’s, but it felt like it had to be intentional. You know what I mean? Um, and so there’s this weird, there’s this, not, not weird, but like very interesting interplay of these private [00:57:00] detectives who are very, very sort of isolated by their profession, isolated by some of the things that they’ve seen and experienced, uh, and don’t necessarily know how to describe themselves or how to relate to other people, how to be close to other people. [00:57:17] Cory: Sometimes find themselves being closest to people, uh, who. I don’t know who, who, who share something with them that they’re not even sure how to describe in themselves. Uh, and so I wanted ora to be, uh, complicated and fluid and, and tender more openly than, than like a 1950s more hero could be. [00:57:46] Brett: Yeah, I think you did a great job. Like it reads, it reads like great queer fiction to me. And I know in your, in your, uh, what do you call it, a soundbite synopsis that you [00:58:00] gave like queer didn’t come up. Um, and, and I feel like that’s not it. It, it’s not a focus of the novel, but I think it could sell that way. [00:58:10] Cory: Yeah. I mean, it has, you know, it has, it is, it is categorized, it’s been described that way. I feel a little bit uncomfortable describing it that way myself, because I am a cis man married to a cis woman, and so I don’t feel like, I feel like I don’t want to use that as a marketing crutch, even though it’s an element of the book. [00:58:29] Brett: I appreciate that. I [00:58:30] Cory: a, like, how, how do you do fellow kids kind of thing. But I just, I wanted to try and be, I wanted to give as accurate and genuine a depiction of, of love as I could. [00:58:41] Jeff: How do you do fellow disaster? Pansexuals. [00:58:43] Cory: Right. [00:58:47] Brett: Oh, that’s great. That’s awesome. Writing Dialogue Trees for Video Games [00:58:49] Jeff: Hey, wait, now I know, I know we’re running out the clock here, but, uh, I, I wanna ask you about, um, writing dialogue trees for video games. And, and [00:59:00] if you can, uh, describe what one is, it’s a little intuitive maybe to people, but describe what one is and describe about, uh, describe the challenges of that or the experience of that as opposed to writing dialogue in a novel [00:59:12] Cory: Oh God. quicker than that. [00:59:15] Cory: yeah, writing, writing dialogue trees is hard, uh, because you’re anticipating a bunch of different possible routes in the conversation, and it’s, it’s difficult to do that without diluting the effect of the conversation. One of the nice things about writing a linear conversation is you can pick the most dramatic, uh, responses to every, every moment in the conversation. [00:59:39] Cory: And when you’re writing a branching dialogue, if you want it to have the same impact, you need to have like three to five of the most, the most dramatic possible responses all prepared. And so it’s a lot of, it’s a lot of like holding a bunch of different possible versions of the conversation in your head at the same time. [00:59:56] Cory: Like, can players end up here from different directions [01:00:00] and will they have different information? And do I need to keep this somewhat vague so that it can work in both of the situations? You know, what are the gather points that I can use so that this doesn’t just become like an exponential mess that is like a million words for one, one-off conversation. [01:00:14] Cory: Uh, the tools are also important and usually kind of janky. They’re finally making some better branching dialogue tools. Uh, some I like more than [01:00:25] Jeff: What? What have you used and liked? I’ve tested them just as a creative experiment. [01:00:31] Cory: My favorite is that I’ve used is ankle. I haven’t gotten to use it much for work, but that’s something to use if you like. [01:00:40] Cory: Scripting generally, it’s like a scripting language, so, so you’re writing it out, um, in a sort of text editor. Other people, I think, prefer a more visual scripting language like Twine. Um, and there are a lot of visual scripting languages. The one that I use for work now, I think I can say [01:01:00] is, uh, OEI, it’s obsidian internal Dialogue Engine. [01:01:03] Cory: I don’t know if you have [01:01:04] Jeff: Oh, huh. [01:01:05] Cory: but, um, but it, uh, it, it is, it is like a node based system. You connect one node to another and you make a, make a web and that’s fine. Like, it’s, it’s decent for, for visualizing the conversation. Um, I think I prefer just because of my own predilections, I guess. [01:01:22] Cory: ’cause I like writing prose. I prefer to have it just written out as text. [01:01:26] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. One more. Uh, uh, uh, when, when you do level design, which you, you did with red fall, um, I was asking, I, I had my, my son look through all of this, he gave me an interesting history of red fall that we probably don’t have to go [01:01:39] Cory: Yeah, we don’t have to go into [01:01:40] Jeff: painful. I don’t wanna, I, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna cause pain. [01:01:45] Jeff: Um, but what is level design and, and how, you know, as opposed to narrative design for people that aren’t like immersed in this. [01:01:52] Cory: Uh, well, arcane was a, uh, a really exceptional studio, rest in peace, [01:02:00] um, because it was a very much like level design driven studio. The way that I would describe it at the time was like, there are a lot of people at a game studio whose job is to make pizza toppings, uh, make like really delicious pizza toppings, uh, or to make the, make the crust of the pizza, to make the sauce of pizza, to make the cheese and everything. [01:02:26] Cory: I, as a level designer would assemble the pizza. Uh, I wouldn’t even put it in the oven. I’d just assemble the pizza. Uh. QA cooks the pizza and serves the pizza. But, um, yeah, level designer takes all of the beautiful things that everyone made and arranges them into hopefully pleasing pattern. [01:02:46] Jeff: That is a lovely way to describe it, huh? Thank you for that. [01:02:50] Cory: Yeah. [01:02:51] Brett: Can we, before Jeff has to go in 10 minutes, um, can we talk quickly about tools, uh, that you [01:03:00] used, uh, for the actual [01:03:02] Jeff: Yes. And I have, I have more time now, so I, [01:03:04] Cory: Oh, [01:03:04] Brett: Oh, okay. Tools for Writing and Productivity [01:03:06] Brett: So yeah, what, what platforms do you write on? What tools do you use? How do what, what all goes into bringing your novels together? [01:03:16] Cory: I, uh, discovered partway through the process of writing two truths and a lie, a tool that I really like. I use Scrivener. [01:03:26] Brett: Yes. I was really hoping you were gonna [01:03:29] Jeff: so [01:03:29] Christina: I was too. I was too, [01:03:32] Cory: I do have some problems with Scrivener. Um, the fact, the fact that like, you can’t select text from like multiple sections at once. I, I find irritating. Like little, little, little irritating [01:03:44] Christina: The, the, the, the sync is bullshit. Can we just, can we all admit that, that, that their syncing stuff [01:03:49] Jeff: I haven’t used it in a while. It was rough in the past. [01:03:52] Cory: Oh yeah. I never, I [01:03:53] Christina: Don’t do it. Is is basically what they even tell you. They’re like, yeah, Google Drive, it’ll probably break. Dropbox is better. Don’t use [01:04:00] Box under any circumstances. [01:04:02] Christina: iCloud is not a thing, but like if you’re ever wanting, at least for me, if I ever wanna write something like on my iPad, and then I wanna access the same thing, I’m like, are you fucking serious? Anyway, that’s my only gripe with Scrivener, [01:04:12] Cory: yeah, I, I, I just use it on one computer and straight up, but I will look, I could, I could, I could talk shit about all the little details, but I know all the little shitty details because I use it so much [01:04:22] Christina: Right, exactly. [01:04:23] Cory: it has a lot of functionality that I, that I can’t get anywhere else. [01:04:27] Cory: Being able to rearrange, being able to rearrange chapters and sections. Um, being able to, the, the, the feature that I use, maybe the most other than that is, uh, taking snapshots of, uh, of text, uh, before I rip out a bunch of it and change it. And I, I almost never actually use the snapshots that I [01:04:48] Jeff: But knowing it’s there, [01:04:49] Cory: Exactly. It allows me to do the messy work and [01:04:52] Cory: not I am like that [01:04:53] Brett: with Git for sure. [01:04:54] Cory: that I, yeah. That I’m gonna be like, I’m gonna be like with my guts all the way up inside the, or my [01:05:00] hands, all the way up inside the guts of the cow and then be like, oh no, oh, I shouldn’t have done this. Now, [01:05:06] Jeff: all been there, Corey. We’ve all been there with the cow. I [01:05:09] Cory: yeah. [01:05:09] Cory: With the cow, we’ve all, yeah, whos amongst us. Uh, but, and then, and then the third feature that I, that I, that I love about it, that really got me through. I have a, I have another manuscript that I’m, that I’m polishing up right now. Um, and I don’t have a lot of time to write because I have my day job. So in order to get through the first draft of this newer manuscript, I was like, okay, I am gonna write 500 words a day, which is gonna give, which, which if I do that five days a week and in no time, I’m gonna have 70,000 words, which is what I’m trying to hit. [01:05:46] Cory: Um, yeah, I, I, I feel like that was like three or four months or something of, of writing. I don’t know. You can, you can do the math. I’m done doing the math. But, uh, but I basically, I just put all of those there. There’s like a [01:06:00] writing target tool in Scrivener, and I put all of those numbers into the writing target tool and it would just be a little window every time, every time I logged on and I didn’t have to think about it, I could see a little progress bar fill up and it felt really good. [01:06:12] Cory: And it got me through, uh, to the end of the first draft, which is the, the first major hurdle of, uh, [01:06:20] Jeff: Okay. Here’s a question. Uh, I, I’m trying to picture, I’m imagining your Scrivener uh, uh, set up right now. And so you’ve got, you’ve got your book, you’ve got it up in the, you know, you’re in the left hand column. You, you start at the top, you’re working your way down. You see the chapters, but then there’s like the dumping ground. [01:06:35] Jeff: Um, where you can have all kinds of shit. What kind of, like, did you have reference material in there? Is that where some of the, you know, older versions lived? [01:06:43] Cory: Um, well, the oldest versions of two treats in the lie were just written in, uh, open office, uh, which has its own problems, especially with loading large files. Uh, as much as I, as much as I love it, [01:06:57] Christina: Corey, are, are, are, are I was gonna say are, are, [01:07:00] are, are, are you a Linux on the desktop user [01:07:01] Jeff: I held back. [01:07:02] Cory: No, I, no, I’m, I’m not. I have, I have, I have, I have, unfortunately, I have windows on all my machines. Uh, I try and use Microsoft products as little as possible, but I’m not quite well versed in computers enough to go without, entirely. [01:07:17] Jeff: He says open office. Every one of our brains goes, Hmm. Linux [01:07:20] Christina: Hmm. I was gonna Exactly [01:07:22] Cory: just, it’s just, it, it’s, it’s free. This is the [01:07:26] Christina: Fair enough. Fair enough. [01:07:27] Cory: Um, but yeah, I was doing it all in open office. It, it, it was, it was a little bit, it was a little bit rough. So the, the old versions are all like ODT files and then, and then, yeah, like pieces that I cut out would go in that bottom section. [01:07:44] Cory: But the other thing that would go in that bottom section is sometimes I just get stuck and I still need to do my writing for the day. And so I’ll just like open up a document in that note section and I’ll just like, freak out. I’ll just be like, oh, what am I [01:08:00] doing? Oh, I don’t know what this problem is. [01:08:01] Cory: I’m gonna try and like, let’s try and, you know, lay out at least the bounds of the problem so that I can start trying to solve it. And like that generally is pretty effective for me. [01:08:10] Jeff: That’s great. Nice. Um, do you ever use, this is totally random, but have you ever heard, oh, you’re not a Mac user, you’re a Windows user? And so I’ll tell you, there’s this app called Silver, um, which is a, it’s a text-based calculator [01:08:28] Christina: Yeah, it’s really good. [01:08:29] Brett: And, and when I’m programming and I just get my, like, stuck on a calculation, I’ll go into Silver and I’ll just write out like what’s frustrating me. [01:08:42] Brett: And like, by putting it into words and seeing it together, silver can extract from that a calculation Hmm. and. And like, give me the answer. And in the process I’ll figure out the formula I need for the [01:09:00] function to come up with the answer I desire. Um, is it’s magic. It’s [01:09:06] Jeff: is magic. [01:09:08] Brett: But I imagine that’s the same as like opening up, uh, a scratch document and Scrivener and writing, writing that you have a problem and writing out the aspects of the problem and what it is you’re trying to solve. [01:09:23] Brett: And in the process, coming out with potentially an answer for the problem. [01:09:29] Cory: Yeah, yeah. That’s, that’s definitely, that’s definitely a part of the process. [01:09:34] Jeff: I keep two documents open when I’m working on projects. One is a scratch pad, which is just to dump in whatever you want. And the other one is called distraction dump. So that every idea that comes that I want to go look up or whatever it is I just put there, I know it’s there. I can go like explore that thing that has nothing to do with what I’m doing later. [01:09:51] Jeff: And uh, and the amazing thing is I never do it. [01:09:53] Cory: Yeah. gonna say, do you ever, do you [01:09:55] Jeff: No. But it lets me keep going. It lets me keep going. Right. Like it’s amazing. [01:09:59] Cory: I, [01:10:00] I will say the other, the other tool that I use where my actual structured note taking is, is I use obsidian [01:10:06] Jeff: Yeah. I love obsidian. [01:10:08] Christina: Sitting is the best. [01:10:09] Cory: I [01:10:10] Jeff: I finally went full in about two months ago and it stuck this time. [01:10:14] Cory: I don’t actually use any of the advanced features of it, like I don’t link internally or anything. [01:10:19] Cory: I just, I just have a bunch of files in there. I use it for work too, [01:10:23] Christina: I do too. I do too. It, it’s one of the few tools that’s like allowed, like, on our corporate systems, um, which are, are pretty, uh, stringent and, um, and, and I, I can’t access my, my corporate accounts on my personal devices. Um, and so, um, it, that does make it a little bit difficult for work stuff. I have to use a different, a, a special version of Google Drive, um, to, to sync things. [01:10:45] Christina: But the fact that I can like, use like a familiar tool is really nice, even if I can’t access my, my stuff anywhere else. But that’s okay. ’cause it’s work stuff. But yeah, it’s nice to at least be able to use like a [01:10:56] Brett: I love that all the tools you’re mentioning [01:11:00] are cross platform. So you’re, you’re, you’re a Windows user talking to a bunch of Mac users and we’ve all used all the apps you’re [01:11:07] Brett: talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I, I, I, I wanna believe that we’re coming back out the other side of the era of, of like jealously guarded proprietary platforms. [01:11:21] Christina: Yeah. know if that’s true. [01:11:22] Christina: I don’t think we are, but I feel like the web has still sort of like, despite everybody trying to kill it is still kind of, you know what I mean? Like [01:11:32] Cory: more what I mean. I don’t mean that those platforms aren’t gonna continue to exist and exert their influence. I think that there’s just starting to be a growing appreciation again for having control over your own shit. [01:11:42] Brett: Yeah. Okay. [01:11:43] Christina: No, I agree with that. I agree with that. And, and I, I feel like, like cross platform or at least like not being as, as, as you said, like jealously, like guarding, you know, for one or the other. Um. It is getting better. Uh, EE even with games, right? With things like the steam deck and, and stuff like that. [01:11:59] Christina: [01:12:00] Making it at least more accessible to access games on, [01:12:03] Brett: seam deck? What is [01:12:05] Jeff: Steam deck. [01:12:05] Brett: Oh, I think [01:12:06] Christina: deck. Sorry. Yeah. No, I, that was my [01:12:08] Brett: gotcha. Okay. Um, speaking of tools, [01:12:12] Jeff: Nice [01:12:12] Brett: you guys, would you guys like to do a GrAPPtitude? [01:12:16] Jeff: Hell yes. [01:12:18] Brett: Corey you down for a gude? Do [01:12:20] Jeff: Corey’s like, I’ve been doing gude for 10 minutes. [01:12:22] Cory: feel like, yeah. [01:12:24] Brett: Yeah. And, and, and if Scrivener is your Gude, we’re good. Um, I, I’ll, I’ll kick it off my pick for the week, and I cannot remember if I’ve mentioned this before, um, but there’s a tool called Sendi. [01:12:39] Brett: It is a PHP server based platform that is an alternative to MailChimp [01:12:45] Christina: Yes. [01:12:46] Brett: I think, 60 bucks one time fee. You get your own mail list server that uses Amazon’s email service. Uh, so for about a dollar, you can send out [01:13:00] thousands of emails to your list. Uh, it can keep track of your email, your mailing list. [01:13:07] Brett: Uh, so if you’re a blogger or a content producer that wants to keep a mailing list where you have close contact with your. Fans, patrons, viewers, um, send, makes it like the, doing the same thing on MailChimp. In my experience, like the, the Envy alt mailing list, the Envy Ultra mailing list has, uh, about 13,000 subscribers. [01:13:37] Brett: And it got to a point where if I wanted to send an email out to all of the people on the list, it would cost me a hundred bucks. And it, it got, like, it got to the point where I just couldn’t afford to do it anymore. Given NV Ultras very extended development period, um, and complete lack of [01:14:00] income. Um, so [01:14:01] Jeff: unrelated. [01:14:04] Brett: And now with Cindy, I don’t have to worry about it for a buck. I can email everyone on that list and as I develop my own mailing list for like Brett secher.com, um, which is a significantly smaller mailing list. But even as such, I can for pennies email everybody. So I, anyone who has a mailing list of anything over a hundred people, Cindy is, uh, an amazing tool. [01:14:37] Jeff: Awesome. [01:14:38] Christina: Uh, it’s funny, I went to their website, um, ’cause I, it was the tool that I thought there, there are a couple of these like this, but I think this is the one that, um, that gets like the, the best, uh, reviews in terms of user interface. Um, and uh, like Brett, you’re right there, like on their homepage. Like one of [01:14:52] Brett: Am I really? [01:14:53] Christina: Yeah. One of your tweets is like right there. Or like as like a, it’s funny because our friend cable, uh, Sasser is, is on there too. And our friend John Gru [01:15:00] were like, a lot of our people, like, I’m looking at their thing, but if I scroll down, I was like, oh, yep. I was like, there you go, Brett Terpstra. [01:15:06] Christina: Cool. [01:15:07] Jeff: In the pocket. A big mailing list. [01:15:09] Brett: And, and it has a good API so you can automate, like I create, when I, when I email my Brett tur.com mailing list, I write, uh, an email in markdown with a couple of YAML headers with like, uh, email subject line and send date. And then I run it through a script and it just sends it out automatically to whatever lists I need. [01:15:36] Brett: Um, so yeah, that’s it. I’m done. [01:15:39] Christina: That’s [01:15:39] Jeff: Awesome. Christina, what do you got? [01:15:42] Christina: Okay, so I was actually, it was funny because before we started about this, I was hoping that we would get to talk about tools ’cause that’d be like a good gratitude thing. And Scribner was going to be a thing that I chose, but I’m not gonna choose that now. ’cause we already talked about our, our love of Scrivener. [01:15:55] Christina: So, and, and Scribner’s. Great. Um, uh, and it is available on, on [01:16:00] Mac, windows and, and iOS, maybe Android. I have no idea. I don’t use Android. But, um, [01:16:04] Cory: Worth the price [01:16:05] Christina: definitely worth a price. Not very expensive, but like, it’s like 60 bucks or something. And like, I, I think it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a good app. Um, and, and any of my criticisms about it are because I really like it. [01:16:16] Christina: Um, I really like, also like, it’s, it’s corkboard like mode. I, I don’t know, just in terms of thinking stuff out, like I think it’s a, it’s a really good tool. But, uh, no, my pick, this is gonna be nerdier, so I don’t, I can’t remember if we’ve talked about this or not, so. I don’t have a problem with the command line. [01:16:31] Christina: Um, but, um, I was, uh, you know, like there’s a, a cool home brew gooey app called Cork. I dunno if we’ve talked about it. Um, it is, you can compile yourself and build it for Xcode. So Home Brew, um, uh, Cory is a package manager for, um, Mac Os. Um, the, the Windows equivalent is called Wing Get, and it’s actually pretty great. [01:16:51] Christina: But, um, basically a way to easily install software, um, if you don’t want to have to go to websites or, or other things. [01:17:00] And, um, uh, or, or if you wanna get things that, that might not be installed in a, in a traditional way. Um, but Cork is an app that, um, Are you saying cork? Or? Cork? [01:17:10] Christina: Cork, CORK. [01:17:13] Brett: Oh, okay. [01:17:14] Jeff: Not taking us back. [01:17:15] Christina: Um, uh, so it, it’s uh, like, like, like the whole thing is that like if, if, if it’s home brew is, you know, having, um, I guess, uh, casks and, and is all about like the brewing, um, idea then like cork is, is I guess, uh, taking that same kind of metaphor, but it, it, it’s, uh, the, the website is Cork mac.app, but basically it’s just a, a really nice gooey, um, app for home brew and I really like it and it wasn’t that expensive, but like I said, it is completely open source. [01:17:46] Christina: So if you wanna compile it yourself, you can, but I really like it. Yeah, [01:17:51] Brett: you. You can also in store cork with home brew. So [01:17:55] Christina: Yeah, you can [01:17:56] Brett: just brew and sell cork and you’re good. [01:17:58] Christina: yep, exactly. And if you like [01:18:00] it, then yeah, you, you can, you can pay for it. It’s like 25 euros or something, or pounds, like through their website and [01:18:06] Jeff: In Seattle, they use Euros. [01:18:07] Christina: Well, no. Well, well, the, well, the developer is, the developer is, is, is, uh, is, is is British, but like, uh, but no, it’s, it’s, it’s really cool. [01:18:14] Christina: ’cause you can also, like, you can update packages like from like the menu bar if you don’t wanna have it open. And, um, you can like access basically all the home brew features that you would otherwise have to maybe deal with the command line for. Anyway. That’s my, that’s my pick this week is cork. [01:18:28] Brett: Very [01:18:29] Jeff: Awesome, awesome. I’ve been installing Homebrew stuff sometimes through Raycast lately, which is [01:18:36] Christina: Oh yeah. No, I love, I I love that inter, that inter, the raycast integration is really good too. Yeah. [01:18:40] Jeff: yeah, in the end, I always prefer just going back to the command line. I don’t know what it is, [01:18:44] Christina: Yeah. Um, I, I, I will say, while, while you mentioned Raycast real quick, just for the Windows users out there, um, there’s a free, um, open source project that Microsoft actually runs, but they’re really good people called, uh, power Toys. And Power Toys Run is their version of like raycast or [01:19:00] Spotlight or whatever. [01:19:00] Christina: And I, I know that team really well, and, and they’re fantastic. And so, um, they’re actually even building some stuff in to do some solver like stuff in terms of calculation things, in terms of being able to use natural language. So power Toys is power toys is, I, I, we’ve mentioned that before, but I’d give that another shout out for anybody on Windows. [01:19:19] Jeff: Nice, nice. Well, I could go and then Cory, if you still have one, you could, it could be a Cory GrAPPtitude sandwich. I. [01:19:27] Cory: Okay. [01:19:29] Jeff: Um, so I am just a, like, slight context, uh, but I’ll be brief about it. Um, one, so I work in, in my work, I work with interviews all the time. Um, I do interviews. I, I work with other people’s interviews on specific topics. [01:19:42] Jeff: I’m a researcher and a kind of program evaluator. So right now I have a hundreds of hours of interviews with, with foster youth. I have, um, many, many hours of interviews with young people who have been in the juvenile justice system. I have interviews I’ve been doing with agronomists, um, and for [01:20:00] years as I’ve worked with interviews, first as a journalist and now doing what I’m doing now, when I could, what I would do is I would pay somebody to transcribe and I’d pay somebody different to read the transcript along with the audio and correct it. [01:20:12] Jeff: Always someone different. And when, um, when AI came along, um, I’ve been, more than a year now, I’ve been playing, trying to get to what felt like a really, a really like. As predictable, as is realistic, um, workflow to, to be sure that some of the jargon and, and some of the, you know, dialect stuff, anything like that is being caught. [01:20:36] Jeff: And so that I can, before I’m even reading through a transcript, I can get it to as good a place as I can. And ideally as good a place as it would’ve been with a second person, which was still imperfect, um, you could have maybe done a third and then you would’ve had it perfect. Um, and so I had, my pick is actually Notebook l lm, um, so I’ve been using Claude Chatty, GPT I’ve, [01:21:00] I’ve messed with so much of this, actually was on the phone with Merlin yesterday just learning his workflow because I’m trying to, trying to like get this workflow just right and I just had this kind of breakthrough. [01:21:09] Jeff: And I, and I, the reason I select Notebook LM is that one thing that. Chat GPT is really, really bad at or good at, depending on how you look at it, is verbatim quotes. If I were to give it a transcript and say, even just say, do you know what a verbatim quote is? Start there, give me an example. Three examples of verbatim quotes. [01:21:28] Jeff: Okay, if you win that one, then I say, now I want five verbatim quotes on this topic. Whatever. Right? Um, always making shit up. Always, always, always. No matter how much I like banged up against it notebook LM is amazing because it will give me verbatim quotes with a footnote that I can hover over and see exactly the point in the transcript it pulled it from, and so that I can be sure right away ’cause to be clear to anybody who might be in the field and worrying. [01:21:54] Jeff: I don’t use quotes just because chat GPT gave them to me. I go and I find them and [01:22:00] that’s how I know it’s making them up. Um, and, and Notebook. LM has been great and what I’ve been doing, I. Which I’ve tried elsewhere, but it works better with them is I just feed it all these documents that are in the relevant area, that have all the various jargon, terms, whatever it is, frameworks, all that stuff. [01:22:16] Jeff: And I’m able to say, Hey, reference this stuff and, and transcribe this and then clean it using that, you know, that those reference materials and, and I still end up using a combination of that and Claude both are just really good, but Notebook, lm, which I had tried early, had set aside, but they’ve now added some features, including just a huge, you know, a very generous limit to how much context documents you can give it just so generous, [01:22:42] Christina: Yeah, no, I, I, I do know. So, so, so I, because I know my team does not work on notebook L, but it uses the underlying like, uh, Gemini stuff. Um, and so, um, uh, yeah, that, that is an important thing to note. You mentioned about the context, like that is one of the really good things is you can upload like. Like [01:23:00] hundreds and hundreds of pages worth of stuff. [01:23:02] Christina: Um, and what’s nice about that is that especially if for what you’re doing, like transcripts and whatnot, like you don’t have to, like, it will be able to kind of keep that in. Its in its memory right then and there not having, so you don’t have to do like, separate rag stuff if you’re wanting to get specific things, you can just, you know, uh, one shot all of your, you know, files or, or, or transcripts or whatever and, and, and ask questions about it, which is really [01:23:25] Jeff: yeah, yeah. It’s amazing. And it’s become part of the stack because look, I have four pinned tabs in my browser all the time. Notebook, lm, Claude Gemini, and ChatGPT PT because at this point in the development of all this stuff, trying to get to where you want to get usually involves kind of chaining some of [01:23:42] Christina: Fully agree. [01:23:44] Jeff: Um, so anyway, I, I really have appreciated coming back to Notebook lm and being like, this is now exactly what I need. [01:23:50] Christina: That’s awesome. That that’s great. And if you have for, uh, further feedback, let me know and I’ll, I’ll get it to the right people. But, um, uh, yeah, so, uh, and, uh, Jim and I has a good, uh, YouTube [01:24:00] support now too, both in the consumer app and in the AI studio thing. So if you give it like a link, it can like, go through the transcript of like what’s, you know, in that link or give you a summary or give you, you know, like timestamps and stuff. [01:24:12] Christina: Um, and I think it works for private stuff too. I’m not, I’m not sure. So that’s, that’s something to think [01:24:17] Jeff: here. Here’s the feedback. Let me fucking change the word spacing. The line spacing and the fonts. ’cause the default sucks and you can’t change it at all. That’s my own. You go to Claude and it’s beautiful, right? [01:24:28] Christina: No, that’s really good feedback. I will, I will, I [01:24:30] Jeff: very ugly. Corey in Corey, in case you didn’t pick it up from context. Christina’s new job is that Google. [01:24:37] Cory: Oh, cool. Congrats. [01:24:40] Christina: Oh, thanks. [01:24:40] Jeff: Ask her anything and she can answer. She’ll just answer with AI first. [01:24:44] Christina: I, I, and you ask me anything and I can be like, dunno if I can answer that. [01:24:49] Cory: Yeah. Yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. [01:24:51] Jeff: All right, Corey, take us home all. [01:24:53] Cory: Well, I, I will, I will say first I, uh, one thing that I would’ve liked to di to discuss a little bit, unfortunately we’re gonna be out of [01:25:00] time, but I would’ve liked to talk about, uh, the, the way that AI shows up in, in two truths and a lie. Also, because I would’ve liked to talk to you guys. [01:25:07] Cory: ’cause you have a very, like, practical on the ground understanding of ai. Which, [01:25:12] Brett: Oh, now I really regret we didn’t get to that. [01:25:15] Cory: oh yeah, no, what it, it’s fine. Just, just have me on again. [01:25:19] Christina: yeah. We’ll have you on again actually, genuinely we’d love to have you on. [01:25:22] Brett: would you, [01:25:22] Cory: yeah. Yeah, I’d come back. I, like I said, I like talking to people, so Yeah. Bring me back. [01:25:26] Jeff: We’ll cut you at the end of your end of your promotional [01:25:28] Brett: right. Let’s do a part two. [01:25:30] Cory: There it is. No, it’s so cute that you think the promotional period ever [01:25:34] Jeff: No, that’s true. That’s true. Sorry. That’s my first day. [01:25:41] Cory: uh, as far I, I’ll I’ll, I I, I was like, I was like frantically looking through apps on my phone, trying to figure out which one gave me a hit of [01:25:49] Jeff: It’s what we all do at this point. [01:25:51] Cory: yeah, yeah, yeah, [01:25:52] Christina: literally that, that you just, you just described how gratitude works on this show. [01:25:55] Cory: yeah, yeah. Hell yeah. So, uh, the one, the one that finally [01:26:00] stuck out for me is I went, I went to the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco last week, and I’m so tired, but it was very fun. The Importance of Business Cards [01:26:08] Cory: But on the way there, I realized that once again, I had forgotten to print out business cards. Ordinarily what I do is I just get nice watercolor paper, cut it into the shape of a business card, and write my business cards by hand. Um, [01:26:24] Christina: really cool. [01:26:24] Cory: find, people find it very striking, and [01:26:26] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say, I was gonna say like, that’s one of those things where like, you know, it’s, it’s like the reverse American psycho thing where you’re like, actually, like having, this is the most impressive part. Like this is the biggest flex to have this really pretty handwritten card versus my perfectly lly, you know, print red on, on, on, you know, [01:26:43] Cory: think my handwriting is nice. So it, it, it, it works. It also, like people say, to give out your business cards like candy, I, I would rather be thoughtful about who I give my business cards to, but this year I didn’t have the paper on hand, or at least I couldn’t find it. And so I reached for another option and I [01:27:00] ended up with this app called Blink with A-Q-B-L-I-N-Q. [01:27:05] Brett: have seen this. [01:27:06] Cory: and it makes, it makes a business card. It lets you make a little business card and then you can, and then it gives you a widget too, where you can put a, uh, a Q QR code on some, somewhere on your phone. So I just had like a separate pane on my phone that was just the QR code. And so I would unlock my phone, go to that thing, people could scan it, it would take them to my business card, and I could put whatever information on it. [01:27:28] Cory: I could make it look nice. And it wasn’t just a link to my LinkedIn, which as much as it’s fine to connect with people on LinkedIn, I, I am trying to create as much of a, like, network of influence outside of commercially top-down controlled platforms as I can. Um, I, you know, I wanna have people’s emails. I wanna, I want, I, I, I already, like, I already get the maximum number of spend calls possible, so I don’t really care about people [01:28:00] having my phone number. [01:28:01] Cory: Um, so, so like, I wanna, I wanna be in direct contact with people. This allows me to give out direct contact information and get back direct contact information too. ’cause when people scan it, they get a little button to download my contacts, like, and just like, you know, get the, whatever the, the, the contact file is on your Yeah, yeah. [01:28:21] Cory: You get a V card, uh, instantly and then it gives, and then it prompts you to put your information back in and then it sends me an email. With whatever contact information [01:28:31] Christina: Oh, that’s awesome. Oh, it also, it also looks like they support, um, um, like Apple Wallet and, and Google Wallet, which that’s really cool. So you can share this as like a, a, a wallet item. That’s a, because I’ve actually, I’ve wanted to do that before for various things. That’s really, really cool. [01:28:45] Cory: Yeah. It felt, it felt very easy. It, you know, it took me like 10 minutes to set up and it immediately ended my panic about business cards. So like, that’s why when I was scrolling through my apps, I was like, oh, this one actually did me a real solid recently. [01:28:57] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s fantastic. Yeah. That’s [01:28:59] Brett: [01:29:00] I would, I would, uh, tack on, uh, last time I went to a conference, instead of printing business cards, I developed a QR code that I, that downloaded my V card and I made it into my iPhone’s wallpaper. [01:29:20] Cory: Yeah, yeah, [01:29:20] Brett: Like the lock, the lock screen wallpaper. So when someone look at you info, I would just unlock my, or I would just hit the uh, wake up button on my phone. [01:29:32] Brett: They would scan my screen and they would get my V card info. It did not have the added benefit of requesting their info and return. It was a one-way transaction, but it worked out [01:29:43] Brett: pretty so much of this life. [01:29:45] Brett: All of all of my QR codes on business cards go to my website slash qr, and then I just have an HT access file that redirects slash qr [01:29:58] Jeff: It’s the most Brett thing ever. [01:29:59] Brett: to, [01:30:00] to whatever place I want people to go. [01:30:03] Brett: So usually it goes to like some old about me page, but I can like. or, or Like, I can redirect that to whatever the current hip, uh, like about page kind of thing is, or LinkedIn or whatever I want. Um, so just like all QR codes, go to that one URL and then I can change where that URL goes. [01:30:28] Cory: That’s cool. [01:30:29] Jeff: Nice. That’s a good one. Weird tip. [01:30:31] Christina: No that. No, no, no. That’s a good one. I feel like you could use like the Blink thing, and now I’m like on Blinks website, they sell like NFC business cards, so you could like print a custom business card that you could put all your stuff in and then when somebody brings their phone up to it, it’ll just transfer that information like wirelessly. [01:30:48] Christina: That’s actually kind of hot. That’s pretty cool. Well, great [01:30:53] Jeff: Okay. [01:30:54] Cory: there’s a free version though. [01:30:55] Christina: Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. I was, I was, I [01:30:57] Cory: be [01:30:57] Christina: yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no. It looks like it. It has like a [01:31:00] full free thing. I was just noticing and it was, but it was inexpensive. It’s like $14 to get an NFC business card, and I was like, actually that’s not a bad idea. [01:31:06] Christina: Like that’s actually kind of a cool, like have one, that way you carry one card instead of like a hundred. [01:31:11] Cory: Yeah. [01:31:12] Christina: But All right. Closing Remarks and Recommendations [01:31:13] Brett: Well, in closing, I would like to recommend that everyone go out and buy two truths and a lie. And I do not say that lightly. Like seriously. I did not have to read it twice to do this podcast, but I did because it was that good. Um, I would love to see an audio book version of There is an audiobook [01:31:34] Cory: version Is Yeah. It literally just saying, show it [01:31:37] Cory: came out at the same time, uh, as, as the book. Yeah. [01:31:42] Brett: fuck yeah. All right. did you do the reading or did someone else. [01:31:45] Cory: I, I did not, I’m not quite Grammy enough. [01:31:48] Cory: I got a, I got a very accomplished voice actor named Tim LBOs, uh, who is, yeah. He did a really good job with the noir voice of it. [01:31:56] Brett: Oh, I’m gonna go get that too. I want the whole time. [01:32:00] I was like, I would love to hear how a a, an accomplished audiobook reader would, would in tone this line. Um, I also always read books from like, in my mind, I’m always trying to convert it to a screenplay, and I’m like, how would I, how would I demonstrate this? [01:32:18] Brett: Yeah. Anyway, it gets nuts. Um, but anyway, please everyone check out two truths and a lie. It’s so good. Um, and thanks Corey for being here. [01:32:31] Brett: I Thanks. Thanks for having me. It was great getting to know all of you. [01:32:34] Christina: Likewise. [01:32:35] Brett: are going, we are going to take you up on a part two. We’ll be, we’ll be in touch. All right, everyone, get some sleep. [01:32:43] Jeff: some sleep. [01:32:44] Cory: Oh, some sleep. [01:32:46] Jeff: See ya.

This week, Merlin Mann, a pioneer in blogging and podcasting, joins the crew for a lively chat. They tackle the humorous side of managing medications and the chaos of personal health. The conversation swings from nostalgic reflections on childhood literature to the struggles of corporate reorganization. Expect laughter as they discuss tech productivity hacks, the emotional depth found in music, and the vulnerable side of discussing politics. It's a blend of heartfelt insights and not-so-serious banter that keeps everyone engaged.

Brett and Christina dive into a sleepless whirlwind of tech chatter and media binges in this wildly overtired episode. Brett recounts his struggles with insomnia, trazodone, and Gabapentin while lamenting the lack of manic productivity. The pair highlight a futuristic cyberpunk novel and tease an exciting author interview. Together, they traverse the realms of new Macs, Framework desktops, and nostalgic gaming. Rogue Amoeba’s audio software gets a fanfare, and gratitude overflows for essential apps like Audio Hijack and AlDente Pro. Expect deep dives, late-night coding, and lots of tech talk. Sponsors Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code OVERTIRED at incogni.com/overtired and get 60% off an annual plan. Rogue Amoeba has been making the highest quality audio apps for Mac for over 20 years. Save 20% off any purchase with the code OVERTIRED at macaudio.com/overtired! Show Links LOST Severance Yellowjackets Marked 2 Apple reveals M3 Ultra, taking Apple silicon to a new extreme Apple unveils new Mac Studio, the most powerful Mac ever, featuring M4 Max and new M3 Ultra New Framework announced All8Bit G11 Pro AlDente Pro Audio Hijack Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Podcast Updates 01:13 Exciting Book Interview Announcement 03:57 Mental Health Corner: Sleep Struggles 10:37 Media Consumption and Mental Health 27:44 Sponsor: Incogni 31:03 Tech Updates: Mark and Envy Ultra 41:11 Exploring Setapp’s Developer-Centric Approach 42:12 Subscription Models and Lifetime Licenses 46:27 New Mac Announcements and Benchmarks 54:54 Framework’s New Desktop and Laptop Innovations 01:00:17 Retro Gaming and Emulation Challenges 01:06:17 Sponsor: Rogue Amoeba 01:16:12 Battery Management with Al Dente Pro 01:22:17 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript LOST and Found Introduction and Podcast Updates [00:00:00] [00:00:04] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren. I am joined, as always, by Brett Terpstra. Jeff Severns Guntzel is not with us this week, although we will have him back soon. Brett, what’s going on? We are, we are two weeks in a row. Our podcast is Acting Like a Normal Podcast. [00:00:20] Christina: How are you? [00:00:21] Brett: Right, like, and we have sponsors lined up for the foreseeable future, by which I mean like a month, but like this could be, this could be for some period of time, a regular podcast, um, which, you know, we’ve. How long have we been doing this? [00:00:41] Christina: Like, like 11 or 12 years. [00:00:44] Brett: Yeah. With, with some extended breaks in there, but, but every once in a while we get into a groove. [00:00:52] Christina: Hey, look, we were in a, we were on a groove for like two years. We were like on a really good place. We were like in a really good place, but no, we’re, we’re in a groove. Um, [00:01:00] and, uh, and it’s awesome that we have sponsors and we hope we can be more consistent. Um, I don’t know. [00:01:06] Christina: It’s, it’s good for me to have like routine. So, um, I’m, I’m, I’m glad to be back and recording with you. Exciting Book Interview Announcement [00:01:13] Brett: I’m really excited next week. So I, here’s the story and, and I won’t tell the whole story next week because I’ll tell it this week, but I am on these lists for like Penguin and random house, and they send me galley copies of books as if. I’m like a bookstore or a book reviewer or something. And I don’t know how I got on these lists, but yeah, I’ll take free books. [00:01:40] Brett: I’ll take free, like pre press books. That’s cool. Um, and I got this one called two truths and a lie, and it’s a cyberpunk. Like Gibson ask, not like modern cyberpunk. It’s like Gibson, like Mona Lisa overdrive era, [00:02:00] Gibson style, cyberpunk. And, um, and it’s all, it plays with the idea of like memory and data as currency. [00:02:09] Brett: And, um, it’s like a queer love story at its heart. And I, I loved it. I loved it. And the agent that sent me the book, um, got, got us an interview with the author. So next week we’ll get to talk to them. And I don’t know if you guys, like you guys got copies, but you’re under no pressure to read them. Cause I’ve read the whole thing twice. [00:02:34] Brett: So like I can lead the interview, but if you have, like, if you’ve read any of it. Then, then you can chime in on, on plot points and whatnot. [00:02:44] Christina: Um, so as of this, as of the, the time that, um, uh, we are recording this, I’ve read about half of it and I really actually enjoyed it. So I will, I will have read the whole thing, uh, by next week. Um, Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I, look, I, [00:03:00] I, um, I sometimes get sent things randomly, um, I, I used to be on lists, but I haven’t been in a while, and I don’t know how you got on the list, but I’m, like, jealous of, of you for it, um, but one of those things, like, A, if someone’s going to go out of the way, if we’re going to have an author on, I really do try to do the homework and do the assignment, um, first of all, but, but, but B, like, I was actually, like, when you first told us about it, I was like, huh, this actually sounds like something that, and I’m not a huge fiction reader, but I was like, of the fiction, this is the sort of thing that I would, yeah. [00:03:32] Christina: Read anyway, and so, um, I, I’ve, I’ve really, I’ve really liked it, so, I’m excited to talk to the author about it, [00:03:40] Brett: it’s good. It’s gritty. The, it was, I think it’s set in LA. It’s underwater. It’s, it’s sinking into the ocean. It’s fun. [00:03:50] Christina: for sure. [00:03:50] Brett: It’s dark and, and scary and gritty and fun. Um, all right. Mental Health Corner: Sleep Struggles [00:03:57] Brett: So mental health corner. [00:04:00] Um, I, I think it’s perfectly apropos to mention that I am once again getting super shitty sleep, and I don’t know why I’m up to 200 milligrams of trazodone in addition to 1500 milligrams of uh, Gabapentin, and it still only keeps me down for about five or six hours. [00:04:25] Brett: And that’s some heavy sedation that I’m just like waking up from. [00:04:30] Christina: Yeah, yeah, no, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s intense, and then, so, how, how are things going with, like, the Mania stuff? [00:04:38] Brett: Uh, so here, okay. So the, the trick with trazodone is trazodone has antidepressant properties. Meaning if I were actually manic trazodone would have made me sleep less, but trazodone made me sleep a little bit more. Um, I can’t go any higher for fear [00:05:00] of triggering a manic episode, but my psychiatrist is pretty convinced that whatever is going on now is your more classic insomnia and not mania. [00:05:12] Brett: So I, I tend to agree. Like I’m not. Well, I am getting up and coding in the early hours of the morning. It’s mostly just because I can’t sleep. Um, and I need something to do with myself and I, I don’t have other outlets, so I code, but it’s not like manic coding. I’m not, I’m not putting out huge new projects every week. [00:05:39] Brett: I’m just, uh, [00:05:40] Christina: You’re just tired. [00:05:42] Brett: Yeah. [00:05:43] Christina: So how do you feel about that? Like, like, like, like, I know that this mental health corner and not a Christina question hour, but I, I’m, I’m going to like ask questions. So how does that make you feel? Because I know that that’s always been something that you’ve, you’ve been able to get like the productivity that you’ve gotten out of your mania has in [00:06:00] some ways, I think been like, uh, um, [00:06:04] Brett: Essential to my career. Yes, [00:06:06] Christina: Well, I was going to say an asset in some ways, but also something like you’ve just come to kind of like learn to like deal with your, your, your life around stuff like that and like, and figure out how to handle it. So when you have the insomnia, which is not accompanied by mania, which is my life, to be honest with you, a lot of the times, not, not lately, but, but historically. How, how, how does, how do you handle that from a mental health perspective? How do you handle that from like a, do I feel, you know, like I’m doing in a perspective, like how, how does that work for you? [00:06:33] Brett: that is a really good question. Um, I, I don’t, I, I don’t like not sleeping either way. Um, when I’m manic and I’m producing like crazy new things that I it. Hadn’t even thought of two days before and then I have an idea and it just spills out and I bring it to, to like fruition like that’s a great feeling even on zero hours of sleep, [00:07:00] but consistently getting like four to six hours of sleep every night for a period of time just wears me down and slows down like I can’t concentrate. [00:07:14] Brett: And if I do hyper focus, it’s not like manic hyper focus, it’s, it’s like slow, slow hyper focus. And, and I don’t, I don’t, I don’t care for it. I don’t cotton to it at all. Um, I, I would rather, I would rather deal with three to five days of mania and, and boost my productivity than this like extended drag that I’m going through right now. [00:07:46] Christina: no. I mean, I think that makes sense. And that, that’s kind of why I asked because, um, and certainly, and, and, and I, I hope that this is, uh, Interpreted the way that it’s intended because I, I don’t mean that I’m, I’m envious of the, the, the mania or, or [00:08:00] the, or the bipolar. Cause I’m definitely not. Um, but, but I have always been slightly envious of like when before now, like that when you’ve had like insomnia, like you’ve actually been able to be like hyperproductive, whereas my insomnia, like is not, um, sometimes I can. [00:08:16] Christina: I mean, okay. I can use that to read a lot. Um, and I guess I can get some productivity out of that sort of, it depends on what I’m reading, but a lot of times I’m not reading anything of necessarily a value, right? And sometimes it’s not even that sometimes it’s just like, you’re literally, at least for me, I’m literally just like laying there or worse. [00:08:36] Christina: I’m just like dicking around on the internet and I’m not able to do on my phone. I’m not able to do really get anything of value done. And it sucks. [00:08:44] Brett: here’s the more existential question behind all of this. Um, when you say of value, do you mean of value as far as your career and kind of a capitalist mentality goes? [00:08:58] Christina: Um, yes and [00:09:00] no. So yeah, that is definitely part of it. But then there’s also a thing where I’m like, I’m not even necessarily reading like, like what I would call quality literature. Like, you know what I mean? Like, or, or quality anything like I’m going down rabbit holes [00:09:13] Brett: of like filling time really [00:09:15] Christina: I’m, I’m going to rabbit holes of internet bullshit that might make for a good anecdote on a podcast episode at some point, because someone needs to know the history of something bizarre and people like, how the hell do you know this? [00:09:26] Christina: And this is how I know this. It does happen quite a lot and people always ask like, how do you know all this shit? Well, the real answer is that, you know, I have a really good memory, but the, the, the, the real answer is, you know, if I have four hours to kill in a night and I’m just, and I’m not able to sleep, I’m reading stupid shit on the internet or watching stupid videos. [00:09:46] Christina: And so, And like it to me, I’m like, okay, well, why don’t you watch good television shows? Why don’t you read good like literature? Right. Or, or, or whatever. Um, to say nothing of like doing things for the capitalistic [00:10:00] pursuit, but like, even like in an artistic pursuit, like I, I can’t defend it, you know, but, but, but, but, but part of it is because like, I’m in like this, like. Sometimes, you know, you just can’t sleep and maybe I can like, find my way to like, you know, play games or do something else and, and, and have fun, but sometimes like you’re in this kind of like a few way state where I’m like, I’m not awake and alert enough to do anything that or to focus on anything that would be. [00:10:24] Christina: Like, good. Um, but I’m, I’m, you know, too, you know, I’m too tired to do that but I’m not tired enough to sleep so I’m just [00:10:32] Brett: yeah, so you consume trash yeah, I [00:10:36] Christina: So, yeah. Media Consumption and Mental Health [00:10:37] Brett: like I don’t I don’t watch TV in the wee hours of the morning, but When I’m up at three by like seven at night, I’m a vegetable and like I’ll turn on the TV and I just watched all of 30 rock, um, beginning to end in the course of like two weeks. And yeah, it’s funny. It’s, [00:11:00] it’s witty. [00:11:00] Brett: It’s, It’s essentially garbage. Like it’s all in all, it’s a pretty vapid show. [00:11:09] Christina: Yeah, I mean [00:11:10] Brett: I love it. I’m not, I’m not dissing it. Like it was, it was fun. And as soon as it was over, I missed it. And like every night I’m like, Oh, I miss 30 rock. Cause that, it takes me, it takes me about a week to get over finishing a show. [00:11:26] Brett: Just like finishing a book. Um, takes me a week to like, let go of. That kind of comfort zone I had hit with whatever media I was consuming. Um, but I’ve started lost and this is still mental health corner, but I’ve started, like I found lost infinitely frustrating and very disappointing the first time I saw it. [00:11:51] Christina: Yeah. Now, [00:11:51] Brett: I haven’t. [00:11:53] Christina: did, did you watch it? Was that like 20 years ago? [00:11:55] Brett: When it was on, [00:11:56] Christina: Okay. Okay. [00:11:57] Brett: And, and I haven’t watched [00:12:00] it since then. Um, so now I’m going at it with like, fresh eyes, and I assume I’m still gonna be disappointed. I am, I am prepared for that. [00:12:11] Christina: Yeah. [00:12:12] Brett: I do remember it being a really fun ride up until then. [00:12:16] Christina: well, uh, and, and, and, and I know this is still a mental health corner, but like this is, this is sort of interesting. So show that I’ve been watching, um, a lot that, that came back a few weeks ago. Is, and I don’t know, I can’t remember if we’ve talked about it or not, is uh, is Yellow Jackets. [00:12:30] Christina: Um, [00:12:31] Brett: yeah, we have talked about it. I haven’t seen it though. [00:12:34] Christina: Okay, so it’s back, um, on Paramount and like the, the first five episodes have aired, so like half the season has aired. And some people are pretty meh on it, and some people like it. I like this season so far more than I liked season two, but, But I, I’ve had to go into this show, especially like there was, because of the writer’s strike and the actor’s strike, there was like, it’s basically been two years since it’s been on. [00:12:57] Christina: And so, like, a lot of fans have had a [00:13:00] lot of time, uh, to think about the show, and it’s very clear in my opinion. That the fans have put a lot more thought into the show than the writers have and I don’t mean that as a slight against the writers, but the writers made the disservice, I think, of telling everybody, well, it’s kind of like Lost, but, but unlike Lost, we have a whole five year game plan. [00:13:21] Christina: We have everything figured out. And as soon as they said that the first season, I was like, you’re fucking liars. fucking liars because that’s exactly what Lost said. That is, that is exactly what Damon Lindelof said and J. J. Abrams. They’re like, we had the whole thing planned out. They did not have it planned out, reader. [00:13:36] Christina: They did not. And so, uh, I, uh, I, I already was a little bit hesitant on that. And then the decisions they’re making on Yellowjacket, some of them I think are, are good. Some of them are, are questionable. But, but it’s, it’s having kind of those Lost vibes to the point where I’m like, okay, this could go either way. [00:13:54] Christina: But, and I really wanted to get a fourth season, but I already feel like the, the, the feedback from [00:14:00] some of the normies on Reddit, um, not the lesbians on Twitter, um, to very different demographics. The lesbians on Twitter are having the time of their lives. The normies on Reddit are not. Um, but like, and, and, and, and the, the, the people in Tik Tok have never watched television before and don’t understand, um, you know, the, the whole point of an antihero, I digress, but like, but like, but it’s definitely getting into that lost vein where you’re like, okay, the right is really good. [00:14:24] Christina: But I’m, I’m having almost like lost PTSD because I’m like, yeah, it’s really good until it’s not. Game of Thrones was kind of like that too, right? Like, like Game of Thrones was, was I think in some ways even more disappointing than Lost because like it was going so well for so long and then we were just like, what the fuck, you guys? [00:14:40] Brett: Right. Um, my side project, I watched the first couple episodes of lost and then thought, what happened to these actors? Um, and I started like, I am D being and obviously, eventually, and Lily went on to like, be the wasp in Ant Man and the Wasp. [00:15:00] Um, uh, Sawyer went on to He has an, I think it’s on HBO, [00:15:06] Christina: Mm hmm. [00:15:07] Brett: uh, something called, well, he did colony [00:15:10] Christina: Yeah. [00:15:10] Brett: And Hurley is now in an HBO show called the bookie. [00:15:17] Christina: Yeah. Um, Jack has had some legal problems, like, well, they’ve all had [00:15:21] Brett: Really? [00:15:22] Christina: I, I don’t think anything was proven, but he has not in May 2012, his lo this is from Wikipedia, so I’m just reading from Wikipedia here. His Lost co star Dominic Monaghan tweeted about Fox, he beats women, not isolated incidents, often. [00:15:36] Brett: Jesus Christ. Okay. [00:15:38] Christina: Uh, so, [00:15:39] Brett: going to taint my viewing of this show. [00:15:42] Christina: I mean, and who knows, he was never charged with anything, and, and, uh, but he has not done anything since, uh, well, he was in six episodes of a thing called Caught, but like, basically, this is why he hasn’t done [00:15:55] Brett: caught to my list because caught looked, caught looked interesting and I had never [00:16:00] heard of it when I was. It’s filtering through these IMDB [00:16:02] Christina: I’ve never heard of a side. This is Australian. Um, [00:16:06] Brett: is a woman beater, I don’t feel a need to follow his [00:16:09] Christina: I mean, I don’t know if he’s a woman beater or not. I know that these are allegations, so I, these are allegations, so, so, you’d never, like, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know. Um, [00:16:21] Brett: will quote unquote do my own research, [00:16:24] Christina: yeah, do, yeah, but, but I was gonna say, [00:16:25] Brett: does taint things. [00:16:26] Christina: well, I mean, look, that whole cast, if you were, I don’t, if you probably don’t remember this, um, but, because you didn’t care about things like this, but I did, like, when it was airing, because they filmed on Hawaii. [00:16:37] Christina: And all those actors got fucking shit faced all the time and got popped for DUIs. And like, like there was like one season, like, like four of them got arrested. Like Michelle Rodriguez, I got like, I think she had to actually do jail time, like in Los Angeles for like a day. And then they like released her because they were like, I think that she was too popular, frankly, um, in, in like the, the, the, the county jail in LA, they were like, [00:17:00] this isn’t going to work. [00:17:01] Christina: But, um, but honestly, the, that’s the one from Lost who’s had like the, Most successful career has been, uh, Michelle Rodriguez, right? Like it was without a doubt. [00:17:11] Brett: she was even on it. She’s not there at the beginning. [00:17:13] Christina: she’s not. She comes in in season two and she’s not in it the whole time. Um, and I would say, um, um, uh, what’s his face? Um, uh, uh, he’s, uh, he’s Nigerian. [00:17:23] Christina: Um, I believe, um, uh, uh, well, he’s English, but, but I think like, but his name is, is, is, is Nigerian. Um, he was, uh, uh, Mr. Echo. Um, he’s [00:17:34] Brett: don’t. Yeah. I haven’t gotten that far. I don’t remember this. [00:17:37] Christina: Yeah, he was in a lot of, yeah, because there were multiple members, uh, from the, the, the series Oz who were actors on it. And, and those, and those people have. All gone on to like continue to work, but, but, uh, but yeah, but that’s, that’s a fun thing for your, where are they now? [00:17:53] Brett: While we’re on a slight media diversion [00:17:56] Christina: Yes. [00:17:58] Brett: are you watching Severance? [00:17:59] Christina: [00:18:00] Yes. [00:18:01] Brett: Do you think that they have figured out where they’re going? [00:18:09] Christina: Yes. I, I, I feel [00:18:11] Brett: need, I need them to [00:18:12] Christina: I, I, I, I actually, I, okay, I know this seems weird. I feel like I trust Ben Stiller. [00:18:19] Brett: That’s not weird. Ben Stiller’s actually kind of weirdly a genius. [00:18:25] Christina: Yeah, no, he, he, he really is like, he’s, he’s a good [00:18:28] Brett: I mean, I say weirdly because we’re talking about Zoolander [00:18:32] Christina: Right, but we are, but, but also like, I think he, he hits like kind of highbrow, lowbrow, but also like he did like, he directed Reality Bites, which, No one remembers, right, um, that he was the one who directed that. The Ben Stiller Show was fantastic. Cable Guy was a weird movie. And it was probably not the right movie to come out of that time because that was when Jim Carrey was peak Jim Carrey and then you release this really weird, black, dark comedy that is not at all what you expect from a Jim [00:19:00] Carrey movie in 1997 and it, and it doesn’t do super well, but it’s an interesting film, right? [00:19:04] Christina: Like, uh, Zoolander is Ridiculous like other things ridiculous, but then you have like Tropic Thunder, which is one of the best movies [00:19:12] Brett: yeah. I just watched Tropic Thunder a couple weeks ago. It [00:19:15] Christina: one of the best movies of of of of the 20 of the 21st century. I will fucking say it genuinely I think Tropic Thunder is one. I think Robert Downey jr’s performance. [00:19:24] Christina: I think Tom Cruise’s performance Like I think the whole thing like works so he’s a weirdo he’s funny, but he’s also like very like smart and cerebral and So, I don’t know, I, I, weirdly, I, I feel like I trust, I trust, um, Ben [00:19:40] Brett: No, I really want to believe that. Um, Like, it keeps, they’re asking a lot of questions still, the way Lost was, like, Lost was just constantly asking questions, and then occasionally answering one, um, and I feel like Severance is asking a lot of questions, like, [00:20:00] fucking goats, right? Like, Or is this ever going to make sense? [00:20:04] Brett: Are we going to, is this going to be a polar bear situation? Um, like, are we gonna, are we going to get some kind of satisfaction on the goats? Um, like just things like that worry me, but like the fact that they, they do have like a great set of writers. Um. And while every episode tends to be directed by someone different, um, they do seem to be following a script, uh, you know, to some extent. [00:20:36] Christina: Well, I, I, well, here’s, here’s what’s interesting, um, and, uh, uh, ah, fuck it, I’ll use this as part of my mental health corner because I’ve been self, um, medicating with, like, media. Um, so, on Fridays, Separants and Yellow Jackets come out, and, and, like, I enjoy them both, but, like, Yellow Jackets, The first season I would have put in the closer to like prestige TV category and I would have [00:21:00] been like this is a show that like is kind of a bonkers premise. [00:21:03] Christina: And so the premise for anybody who is unfamiliar is that in 1996, like a, uh, like a high school girls soccer team is on their way to from New Jersey is on their way to the national competition in Seattle and they’re playing crashes. In the middle of the Canadian wilderness, and they have to deal with it. [00:21:21] Christina: And it’s kind of like a female Lord of the flies. And then at the same time, 25 years later in 2021, um, which now it’s 2025, but like that timeline has progressed much more slowly. So we don’t really know what year it is and in the future, but 25 years later. Some of the, the survivors are like living their lives and are trying to, to deal with things when, when people come back and are like reminding us, it’s like, this is what you did and any, and then more, more things to reveal and kind of like a, a, a dual timeline perspective. [00:21:50] Christina: And the first season I thought was. Just, and I still stand by, I thought it was like incredible television, like incredibly, incredibly well done. And, and I would put it like in the, the [00:22:00] prestige, light prestige category, right? Like, not the highs of like the mid 2010s TV, but like certainly really, really good. [00:22:07] Christina: Like, like not succession, but like a step above what else was on. And it was nominated for a number of Emmys and, and whatnot. Season 2 comes out. And I felt like they listened to Reddit too much and made some alterations and I didn’t really like some of the changes they made. I didn’t hate it. I, I, I, at all. [00:22:24] Christina: Um, but, um, you know, I think that there were, there were definitely signs at that point that I was like, you did not plan out the things that you’d planned out. Like, it was very clear to me that they, you know, ret, they, they, they retconned certain things. Like, they hadn’t thought about stuff as much as, as other shows maybe, you know, do. [00:22:41] Christina: And then season three, you know, coming back after like kind of a two year hiatus. Um, the, the, I still enjoy the show, but at this point it’s much more camp for me. Um, well, at least the, the, the modern timeline is that the, um, the, the, what’s happening to like the girls, like in the woods, like I still, I feel like that at this point, I feel like it’s two different shows, [00:23:00] but anyway, my point on this is, is that severance to me feels like, you know, white Lotus succession, like prior, like, like, like high end, like good prestige television. [00:23:10] Christina: Like [00:23:10] Brett: Or even like Breaking [00:23:11] Christina: Breaking Bad, well, completely, right? Breaking Bad, Mad Men, like, like, like, you know, The Sopranos, like, you know, when you think of, like, high quality television, like, Severance, I think, is gonna win every single Emmy this year, like, it is not even gonna be close, it’s gonna showgun the whole fucking thing. [00:23:25] Christina: Oh, yeah, it’s been crazy, right? The, the cinematography, like, every aspect of the show, like, it is, this is, this is the new succession in terms of, like, just, everybody else needs to just go home, because what are you even doing, right? And it’s not that there aren’t other good shows, it’s just, like, Nothing else is going to even compete with this. [00:23:41] Christina: Right. So, um, whereas like yellow jackets, it’s like fallen to me to be more like, I really love it, but it’s like, it’s like my trash, like a little bit like, like, like, like kind of fun. And it’s not trash. It’s just not that, that level. Right. Whereas I think at least right now, and [00:24:00] it could falter, but I feel like, you know, season two severs has really stepped things up. [00:24:05] Christina: And as long as they don’t, um, Like, I don’t know. I think that if they keep it to, I think that if they have like a set idea of, of what they’re going to do and they stick to it and they don’t try to overextend the arc of the show. That’s my only fear, right? Is that Apple or somebody is going to be like, Oh, let’s do more seasons of this. [00:24:28] Christina: And it’s like, no, you got it. You got to end things up. Right? Like, I know this is like the [00:24:33] Brett: it’s a show that has much like, like Breaking Bad or, or any of these, [00:24:39] Christina: succession. Yeah. Like it has an [00:24:41] Brett: like, yeah, they have, uh, they have an arc and, and the arc ends. And if you try, if you try to extend it beyond that, then you’re in no man’s territory and you end up with, uh, Um, and yeah, I really I want to see it come. I wanted to be satisfied. [00:24:59] Brett: I want [00:25:00] whatever happens. I don’t know, season three, four or five if it makes it that long. Um, or if or if the arc takes that [00:25:08] Christina: Yeah, but if it takes that [00:25:09] Brett: I just wanted to be satisfied. [00:25:11] Christina: no and and that’s what I’m hoping I’m hoping that like the people making it will do like Because and honestly, I think that’s what Breaking Bad did really well, like they had an arc, um, and, and I think that that was when Succession did amazingly, like they had four seasons, and you know that HBO wanted that, you know that they wanted that to go longer, um, because it won every award, and it was, you know, a huge water cooler kind of show, everybody was talking about it, it was really good, uh, and they were like, no, this, this is how this ends, and it, and it ended Perfectly. [00:25:41] Christina: Um, and, and that’s so satisfying. So I would rather have less, like, if you’re not going to be able to do it right, like with the show, like severance, right? Like, um, and, and it’s interesting because, uh, we talked about this, um, uh, over the weekend, like the, like the, the, the New York times like did like this big, you know, kind of profile of like the, the, the bell [00:26:00] labs buildings, you know, that they like based, you know, a lot of, a lot of the, the looks on and whatnot. [00:26:05] Christina: And like, it’s. You know, it’s definitely like, it’s the most streamed show I think of, of this, um, this year right now, like it’s, it’s a huge hit. So I hope that, I hope that they have it more under control than, I mean, look, Lost, in fairness to them, they had to do 22 episodes. And, and, and, and ABC was just like pushing the mystery and it was kind of like, um, You know, it was, it was unfortunate because it was originally compared to Twin Peaks, uh, which is the original, like, Burn, you know, F. [00:26:37] Christina: A. S. T. and Burnout mystery show. And Twin Peaks had the same problem, from what I recall. I was much too young when it originally aired, but like, it was this Genuinely like global fucking phenomenon and only lasted two seasons because David Lynch didn’t really have maybe it all figured out I think he did like he eventually got it right when they had the movie and then really I think where it crystallized was the, [00:27:00] the, um, Twin Peaks Return the Showtime series, which I thought was like a really Great, like come back in a way. [00:27:07] Christina: Cause I was like, okay, you, you tied everything up and you actually did like make this whole thing work, but most people don’t have, you know, 25 years to, to, to, to, to get through that. Right. So, so, you know, anyway. [00:27:25] Brett: All right. Well, that’s my mental health. Is that your mental [00:27:28] Christina: Yeah. Honestly, honestly, I think that’s also my mental health. Cause I’ve been, I don’t really have anything to add since the last time we talked. Um, except, uh, yeah, I’ve been like self caring with, with, with media. So, um, there we go. [00:27:40] Brett: Yeah. I, I feel like that’s, that me too. Um, do Sponsor: Incogni [00:27:44] Christina: actually, on that note, I was going to say, um, since we mentioned we have sponsors, can we go ahead and do our first, uh, sponsor [00:27:49] Brett: I was just going to ask you if you would like to do the incogni read. [00:27:53] Christina: Absolutely. This episode is sponsored by Incogni, a cutting edge service designed to safeguard your personal [00:28:00] data. So did you know that data brokers collect and sell your sensitive personal information? Because they do. That’s one of the reasons why you get phone calls and, and, you know, from, from, uh, random numbers and, and requests from people who know things that they shouldn’t. [00:28:14] Christina: And so this leads to unwanted spam, identity theft, and a loss of control over what’s shared online. And From people search sites to targeted scams, the risks are real and they’re affecting lives every single day. Here’s the good news. Incogni automates the removal of your personal information from these data brokers. [00:28:33] Christina: With just a few simple steps, you can create an account, allow Incogni to act on your behalf, and you receive progress updates while they work their magic. And so Incogni automatically contacts data brokers on your behalf to request the removal of your personal data. [00:28:48] Christina: And this seamless process ensures that your information is continuously monitored and it stays off the market. And so this significantly reduces your Uh, spam scams and identity [00:29:00] theft. I’ve been using, I know Brett has been using incognito for a couple of years. Uh, I’ve been using it for a few weeks and I have to say as someone who’s gone through the process of manually. [00:29:10] Christina: Trying to submit, um, you know, these, these claims to data brokers. This is way easier. And I’ve been impressed with like how much stuff they found and how much they’ve been able to clear out. And like, this is very good. Uh, and I know Brett mentioned, uh, last time that like you’ve received fewer spam calls. [00:29:28] Christina: I have too. Um, and, and I, and I don’t, you know, I don’t know if that’s because, uh, I’ve been, you know, like Verizon or somebody has some sort of list or what, but like. I don’t know how to end up like long term data to say it’s incognito, but it’s definitely decreased, which is really good because that’s one of the main things that happens. [00:29:46] Christina: It gets your phone number and I’ve had the same phone number for over 20 years. And so. You know, it’s associated with me. And so, you know, uh, the, the, the fewer like random calls, like you had, you owe something to the IRS or you, [00:30:00] you know, have like this outstanding car loan or, or whatever you get the better, because those things can really prey on people. [00:30:06] Christina: Um, you can get an individual account for yourself with incognito family and friends plan. You can even extend that same robust protection to up to four additional members. So that means that your entire family or closed circle can benefit from incognito vigilant data removal and monitoring services. [00:30:21] Christina: and provide everyone peace of mind and take control of your digital privacy. Now visit incognito. com slash overtired and secure your data today. You can sign up and enjoy a 30 day money back guarantee, protect your privacy with incognito and experience peace of mind. Knowing your personal information is safe. [00:30:42] Christina: Take your personal data back with incogni use the code overtired at the link in the show notes or visit incogni. com slash overtired and get 60 percent off the annual plan. That is I N C O G N I. com slash overtired [00:31:00] incogni. com slash overtired. Thank you. Tech Updates: Mark and Envy Ultra [00:31:03] Brett: Very well done. Nice job. Um, I’m going to save our second, um, our second sponsor for closer to our gratitude segment because it’s going to tie in really well there. Um, so. Real quick, this doesn’t have to be a big segment. I, I put out a new version of Mark this week, which is the first time in it’s, it’s been at least a year since I’ve released an update. [00:31:33] Brett: And I finally, I put out a version that can now, so one of the big requests was incorporating mermaid, uh, mermaid. js, which lets you write diagrams in Markdown [00:31:48] Christina: and, and that’s been supported by, by, uh, the official GitHub flavored Markdown on GitHub for, I think, two years now. Yeah. [00:31:54] Brett: yeah. So, so instead of just adding mermaid, I decided to [00:32:00] add, um, the capability to. Add your own javascripts from a CDN from a local file or from just embedded raw text in, uh, an entry field. And so, and then you can add hooks that will update whatever library you add. It can update it every time the page refreshes because Mark doesn’t do a page. [00:32:28] Brett: Full page refresh. Uh, when it detects a change in the file, it only updates the part of the page, a part of the display that was actually modified. Um, so this, this allows you to add something like mermaid and then have it automatically update every time you make a change to the file. Um, and it’s going to open the door to solving dozen support requests in one fell swoop. [00:32:55] Brett: And then the other request that I. Just, I don’t [00:33:00] know why this is such a big deal now, but there’s this. I think it’s from Common Mark, this syntax where you put two equal signs on either side of a block of text and it highlights it. Um, and it works in bear. It works. I think it works in obsidian. Um, it, it just became this like accepted standard. [00:33:23] Brett: And suddenly I was getting all of these customer complaints that like, I just wasted 14 because all I needed to do is display my highlight. And, and I’m like, this isn’t part of markdown. Uh, like this isn’t, this isn’t part of any official spec. So cut me some slack, but I went ahead and I just figured out, I added support for equals equals marks and. [00:33:53] Brett: Tilde tilde, um, deletion and single tilde [00:34:00] underscores the single tilde underscores you can enable separately because those conflict with multi markdown subscript. [00:34:08] Christina: right. That’s what I was recall. That’s what I was remembering. Cause I remember like multi Markdown, like does yeah. Subscript differently. [00:34:14] Brett: yeah, so, so you have the option to override multi markdown handling of tildes, um, [00:34:22] Christina: This is why this is, well, that’s awesome. I was going to say, so. Like, I know that like, cause like, cause it’s common Mark, even are people even actively still like adding to that spec or, or was this one of those things that just a lot of people, I looked, it looks like the last time they updated anything on the spec was 2024, but, um, or, or, but, or, or what you, or, or, or what you are seeing is that like, yeah, somebody somewhere added some sort of. [00:34:51] Christina: Common thing, um, whether it was part of a spec or not and becomes adopted and then because it’s not part of any of the official forks, like it’s hard for, you [00:35:00] know, people like yourself, if you are supporting a flavor of something to be like, okay, well, I don’t even know that I’m supposed to do this. [00:35:07] Brett: the beauty of marked is. Okay, so it’s a huge glaring hole and benefit at the same time that mark can work with whatever processor you want it to, um, it has. Multi Markdown and GitHub Flavor Markdown built in, but you can extend that to work with Common Mark. I’ve written custom processors that handle all of Bear’s syntax. [00:35:37] Brett: Um, uh, Obsidian callout formatting. Like you can make it work with all of that if you’re willing to kind of get into the. nitty gritty a little bit. Um, and I don’t, I, I don’t know where all of these people who want the equals equals highlighting necessarily are coming [00:36:00] from, or if they’re even coming from like the same place. [00:36:04] Brett: I do know, like I’ve been really into Devon think lately and you can highlight texts in Devon think using. Critic markup syntax for highlights, which is curly bracket or equals equals and then equals equals curly bracket. Um, and that will give you like a markdown annotation, which is, it’s perfect. It’s great. [00:36:28] Brett: I love it. Um, but it’s. It’s different. Like everyone seems to have a different implementation. I wish critic markup had gotten more widely used personally, [00:36:41] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say it’s hard because like, I mean, and this is, I mean, I guess this was the initial idea behind, you know, Common Mark, which, which I think was, was kind of hurt by its, uh, initial, uh, name, um, and, uh, and, and, and that whole thing, um, which we don’t need to [00:37:00] relitigate, um, which was a bad move, but like, it, it, it is one of those things where like, You know, you had this, this syntax, which was, it was just incredibly popular and, and like so successful because of its simplicity, because it was literally designed for one thing. [00:37:13] Christina: And then as everybody has started to expand into areas, like if we’re being honest, like highlighting is not really a thing that you should necessarily be wanting from. A tool called Markdown. Right. But like, that doesn’t mean you couldn’t have a different thing that uses a similar spec that could do that. [00:37:29] Christina: Right. But like, as everybody’s extended this stuff, it makes it really hard for people like you who are trying to adhere to a spec. And, and, and yeah, you can bring your own processor. But even in that case, like you would need to know, like, for something like highlighting or something, which is different, you would need to like, have a way of rendering that. [00:37:44] Christina: Um, beyond just like whatever, you know, processor they’re, they’re, they’re using so that you can display it, you know, correctly in the app. Like you, you need to still be aware of like, okay, well, what, what, what things are out there and is there something else [00:38:00] I need to support? But that’s awesome that you, that you brought it. [00:38:02] Christina: Um, and, uh. And the bring your own JavaScript, uh, thing, um, seems really cool too. [00:38:09] Brett: It, it, it should prove useful. Um, I don’t think. I don’t think the vast majority of Mark users will need it, but man, if I lose my job, I’m switching Mark to subscription. Um, and I’ll lose a lot of customers. Um, I have, I have customers that I’ve had for 15 years now, um, that have never paid a dime after their initial purchase back when Mark costs like 4 [00:38:36] Christina: Right. No, totally. [00:38:37] Brett: I still support them and I’ll lose a bunch of them if I switch to subscription, but I think there’s. [00:38:43] Brett: It still makes a couple grand a month, um, in sales. And I think if I could turn that into more recurring revenue, I could, I [00:38:52] Christina: I, I, I, I think if you could do like a three or four dollar a month subscription, you know? Um, as well as an annual plan that might be like a [00:39:00] discounted thing, like, I, I [00:39:01] Brett: Three dollars, 3 a month. If I, if I got 20 percent of my current user base to switch to 3 a month, I could, I could actually probably quit my job. I [00:39:14] Christina: I feel like, [00:39:15] Brett: cut back, but I could survive. [00:39:17] Christina: right, but, but, but I feel like, well, and not only that, but you might even be able to like dedicate like more resources towards upkeep, right? Like if you were able to do it that way, like if that became like [00:39:27] Brett: Well, and that like with envy ultra, we’re definitely going subscription. Um, like that’s been built in from [00:39:35] Christina: From the beginning. Yes. [00:39:36] Brett: and that’s part of what’s holding up release right now is getting fucking store kit version one to function properly, um, [00:39:45] Christina: are going to go in the app store. [00:39:47] Brett: Yeah, our, our initial release will be app store and then hopefully soon followed by a direct, uh, probably. [00:39:57] Brett: Well, so set up is [00:40:00] working on a store where they can sell individual licenses that don’t require a set up subscription. Uh, so they’re looking at kind of taking a piece of the pie from paddle, uh, from, uh, spring, whatever. What’s it? Something spring? [00:40:20] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Something spring. Yeah. I, I, I know what you’re talking about. Um, uh, yeah. I guess it. [00:40:26] Brett: All these, yeah, all these, like, [00:40:28] Christina: Koji’s dead. Uh, uh, it’s, it’s [00:40:31] Brett: Koji something else now. [00:40:33] Christina: um, yeah. Um, but that, that, that is now that domain is now, uh, um, search engine, but it was, or it was cakey, [00:40:40] Brett: Okay, that’s what I was [00:40:41] Christina: but, yeah, but yeah, now, now it’s a search engine. [00:40:43] Christina: They just bought the domain, but yeah, that’s dead. Digital river got, um, uh, shut down spring. I know what you’re talking about, but like paddle is obviously one of the big ones for, um, uh, and then what’s the other one other than paddle? Um, [00:40:59] Brett: I, [00:41:00] I’m blanking on [00:41:01] Christina: I am too because I can, [00:41:02] Brett: one that’s been around longer than paddle. [00:41:04] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, cause it’s one that I have like a ton of, uh, um, stuff with. Um, so yeah. [00:41:11] Brett: Yeah. Exploring Setapp’s Developer-Centric Approach [00:41:11] Brett: So set up is looking to take a piece of that pie. Um, and honestly, if they, they’ve been like, they’ve had zoom calls with every developer on set up to talk about what they would want to see from that kind of store. And they’re taking all of that feedback and trying to make something that is actually good for developers, uh, which is pretty exciting. [00:41:37] Brett: Um, not that paddle is bad. I, I have, I have enjoyed using paddle and I like purchasing through paddle. Like it’s very seamless. It works great. Um, all of my licenses are easy to retrieve. Um, I enjoy paddle, but if. If set up can do the same thing and I also want to sell through set up, [00:42:00] then it becomes my one stop shop and that’s where I’m going to, that’s where I’m going to publish software. [00:42:06] Christina: And it was fast spring. It was fast spring. We [00:42:08] Brett: fast spring. Yeah, that’s that, that was, that was the one. Subscription Models and Lifetime Licenses [00:42:12] Brett: Um, so anyway, like I definitely with, uh, NB ultra subscription for sure. We’re looking at, you know, basically. 36 a year, um, for a full license. And then, uh, uh, an unlock price that is equivalent to maybe three to five years worth of free updates. Um, and we’re going to call it a lifetime license, but. [00:42:41] Brett: You know, after five years, we might release a whole, like major upgrade that requires payment. Well, you know, the way software used to work. [00:42:51] Christina: Yeah, exactly. The way, the way it used to be. Um, and, and gumroad, gumroad was the one I was trying to [00:42:55] Brett: Yes. Yes. Okay. Gumroad is not as old as paddle,[00:43:00] [00:43:00] Christina: I was going to say gumroad is no, is newer than paddle, but it’s been, I I’ve used that one more in recent years and I use at least as an end user, I have more [00:43:07] Brett: what I like about Gumroad is they make it really easy to do pay what you want or pay what you can kind of pricing. Um, and I like when I go to buy a piece of software that the developer has said, this is. 3, but they give me an empty field and, and I can say, no, this is where five bucks, this is where six bucks, [00:43:30] Christina: and I’ve definitely done that. [00:43:32] Brett: Yeah. Me too. Like I almost always up upsell myself on those because I can afford it. And, and I know what it’s like to put out a truly useful piece of software that gets undervalued and, or undervalues their own. [00:43:50] Christina: Mm hmm. Totally. [00:43:52] Brett: I’ll help [00:43:52] Christina: Yeah. No, I, I, no, I, I vibe with that too. So yeah, I’m glad that Setapp is, is getting into that, um, space because I think, [00:44:00] A, that’s a great opportunity for them. I think the subscription stuff is great, but There are times when you’re like, no, actually I would like to be able to just buy this, you know, like outright. [00:44:08] Christina: And maybe you’re in instances where, um, a subscription doesn’t work. Like if you’re on a corporate laptop or something, maybe they don’t, you know, they, maybe they have requirements about how licenses work. You know what I mean? They’re, they’re just all kinds of options there. And, um, it does make sense too, since they’ve have the setup app store, uh, in the EU. [00:44:25] Christina: Um, I don’t know what the status of that is now, but I know that they were working on having their own app store, um, for iOS and in the EU. And so, you know, if they’re already having to invest in that kind of infrastructure, you might as well expand it. [00:44:40] Brett: Oh, like a sideloaded app [00:44:42] Christina: Yeah, yeah, I know that that’s, I know they were, I don’t know [00:44:46] Brett: right now, [00:44:46] Christina: them or not, but I [00:44:47] Brett: they [00:44:47] Christina: I know they were looking at it. [00:44:49] Brett: they, if you have a setup subscription and an app on setup has an iOS companion, [00:44:56] Christina: correct. No, what I’m talking about. Yes, no, yes, that [00:45:00] that’s not what I’m talking about. Um, and I don’t know what the status of this is, but I know that last year when, um, the EU announced that like Apple would have to accept third party app stores that set up was like, we will make a third party app store in the EU that will have. [00:45:14] Christina: You know, um, apps that you might not be able to get otherwise, or apps that people might want to sell through an alternative way, similar to, to what the, the, the Delta guys have done, um, with, uh, with their, um, app store for, for, for, for the Delta emulator. Um, although that is available officially in the app store as well, but, but there are other apps that, that aren’t, and so. [00:45:34] Christina: If I, what I’m assuming, and I have no, you know, knowledge around this, but I would assume that if they were going to take on the undertaking of being like, okay, we have to have this much money that’s required by the DMA to have this, you know, um, uh, you know, uh, marketplace, if we have to go through all this process of building out our infrastructure to do individual sales and to do this stuff for the EU, we might as well make some tweaks and make, uh, you know, a paddle gumroad, [00:46:00] you know, uh, you know, um, uh, you know, Whatever. [00:46:04] Christina: Um, exactly. So, so you can sell individual licenses, um, to, um, outside of mobile, you know, cause if you’re already building it out, you might as well, um, get, get some bank for your buck if you’re doing all of that, [00:46:17] Brett: Right. [00:46:17] Christina: I don’t know. Um, okay. Uh, uh, do you want to, can we talk about some new computers? [00:46:24] Brett: Yes, let’s. [00:46:26] Christina: Okay. New Mac Announcements and Benchmarks [00:46:27] Christina: So the new Macs, uh, we’ve got some new Mac updates, um, this week. [00:46:30] Christina: We also got, um, uh, framework announced a bunch of stuff, uh, week before last, but let’s talk about the Macs first. So you, you have a, uh, an M4 Mac pro now, right? [00:46:40] Brett: I have an M4 MacBook Pro, and I still have an M1 Studio, and I’ve been waiting for the studio update, and I, I, are there benchmarks out between the M3 Ultra and the M4 Max [00:46:59] Christina: [00:47:00] Um, there are no, no, because the, the, uh, the, so, um, they announced the new Macs, um, a new Mac book air and, um, uh, the new Mac studio, uh, were both announced, uh, this week and they will be available starting on the 12th. So reviews will probably. Be out on Monday or Tuesday is my guess. And so we’ll start to see benchmarks then, but no, they don’t. [00:47:22] Christina: Other than like some synthetic stuff that Apple put in the press releases, we don’t have any comparisons between the M4 Max and the M3 Ultra. [00:47:30] Brett: the M3 Ultra is priced higher than the M4 Max, [00:47:35] Christina: Yes. [00:47:36] Brett: so I have [00:47:37] Christina: Right. So, so from what I, what I understand is, is how they describe the process. It’s better [00:47:45] Brett: Okay. [00:47:46] Christina: is, is how they’re sharing it. So, so how, how, how they’re describing it, I think, is that they’re saying that the M3 ultra is two M3 maxes stuck together. And so that will have like higher throughput. That’s how you can get 512 gigabytes of, of, um, unified [00:48:00] memory. [00:48:00] Christina: And do some other things. Um, it, it’s still on the older three nanometer process, but it’s still in three nanometer process. And the way that it was described, I think to people like Jason Snell and John Gruber, and I hope that I’m not misrepresenting this, but from the impression that I got based on, on their write ups was that what Apple basically said was that they kind of work on some of these chips in parallel. [00:48:22] Christina: Um, you know, I guess like processes. And so one team’s working on one thing, one’s working on another. So the M4 Max for most people is probably. Enough, but the M three ULTRA is going to be even beyond that because it’s basically I know, I [00:48:41] Brett: from a branding [00:48:42] Christina: And, and why [00:48:43] Brett: should be slower than [00:48:44] Christina: about it. [00:48:44] Christina: ’cause it’s not like it. I agree with you. I agree with you. But what I, what I, but, but, but if, but if you have, if the way that it’s working is that, okay, the, the two ultras are, are two of the max chips. Attach [00:49:00] like in their, in their, their chiplet kind of thing, similar to what, how AMD does their Zen processor. That’s basically what they’re doing is attaching two of them together. [00:49:07] Christina: If that’s what they’re doing, then yeah, no matter what, you know, unless you made like Titanic, um, improvements. From M3 to M4, which, which you didn’t, you know, then, then two is still going to be better than one. Um, but, um, so, so for instance, the comparison, uh, on the Mac studio, uh, page is, and some of this could just be down to binning. [00:49:31] Christina: It could be down how to inspect the chips, obviously. Um, and, and there’s some, uh, I guess, uh, thought, uh, that maybe the M4 ultra will be. What they’ll use for the Mac Pro, maybe that’ll be the one thing that will get people to stupidly buy a Mac, Apple Silicon Mac Pro, which zero people in the universe need. [00:49:51] Christina: But the, um, the, the, the, the comparison is that the Apple M4 Max chip. We’ll have 14 core CPU, 10 performance cores [00:50:00] for efficiency, and then a 32 core GPU. And I think that can be extended beyond that, but whereas where the M3 Ultra starts, it’s a 28 core CPU with 20 performance and 8 efficiency. So it’s twice the number of cores and then a 60 core GPU. [00:50:14] Christina: So, and then, and then the neural, the neural engine is double as well. And then the big thing is the memory bandwidth goes from 4 to 10 gigabytes. Uh, per second memory bandwidth to 819. So you’re, you’re literally are talking even if you know, it’s, it’s almost exactly. And so you can configure these all the way up to, um, uh, you know, uh, 32 core, um, 80 core GPU, um, uh, for, for the ultra versus 16 core, 40 core GPU on the max. [00:50:41] Christina: So it’s, it’s double. Um, but, um, you know, it, it also costs. Twice as much. So, uh, I agree with you though, from a brainy perspective, it’s nuts. It’s like, [00:50:53] Brett: So. [00:50:54] Christina: no one’s going to know. But, but, uh, I’m looking forward to the benchmarks because these look like these will be good machines. [00:50:59] Brett: Yeah, [00:51:00] I, I can get 800, uh, trade in for my M1 studio. Um, and even with that, I can’t justify, in addition to my M four MacBook Pro, I can’t justify buying another $4,000 machine right now. So my thing is, if, if we get NV Ultra out. And it makes some decent money for me, then I’ll buy a, a new studio, but for right now, for right now, the combination of an M one studio and an M four MacBook pro, I have, I have everything I need. [00:51:38] Brett: I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t even be looking, but I priced it [00:51:41] Christina: I was gonna say I think you’re perfect. No. Yeah, and I was looking too because in my mind I was like, so I have like my my 2020 iMac which has 128 gigs of RAM and it’s like was a you know, an i9 and and you know a big Graphics card and it still performs really well, but and I’m [00:52:00] not like Needing to even upgrade it, but, you know, it is still an Intel machine and like Apple’s going to cut support for it. [00:52:06] Christina: Maybe even this year, right? Like I, I don’t know when, and so then I’m going to be stuck in this position where I’m like, okay, well, do I, you know, spend a couple hundred dollars and try to turn it into a second studio display, um, by getting like a, a board from AliExpress and like opening up the back of it and, and attempting to Frankenstein the whole thing so I can try to save the. [00:52:27] Christina: The display and, and, and reuse that. Cause Apple’s only going to give me like, they’re not going to give me any money for this computer. Um, certainly not what it’s worth. Do I stick, do we keep it around, you know, as like a, a Linux kind of machine or something like, like, what, what do I do with this? But I was looking, I was like, okay, well, if I wanted to get a desktop and I don’t really need one right now, I have an M three max and then I have an M four pro for work, but if I wanted a desktop, I’m like, okay, well, you know. [00:52:53] Christina: How much do I want to spend? Because, uh, the, the ultra is probably more processing power than I need, [00:53:00] but at the same time, I don’t really want to spend, like, I priced out, it’d be like, you know, 3, 500 to get an M4 Max studio the way I would want it versus like a couple hundred more to get the, the base level ultra, which would have. [00:53:14] Christina: Not 128 gigs of RAM, but I have 96, but it would be up there. But I’d be basically looking at spending about four grand on the machine that I would want to configure the way I would want it before tax. And then I have to figure out a fricking display. So, you know, which, um, which, which means that I’m, it’s. [00:53:32] Christina: Which makes me just miss the 27 inch iMac, but I’m, I’m, I’m looking, I don’t really need anything right now. I’m, I’m waiting for, for the benchmarks just to see. From me and what’s interesting is that my use case with this and it’s, and it, it’s interesting to me that Apple still hasn’t leaned into this because this is obviously the core market for this product. [00:53:49] Christina: Is like local a, um, LLM stuff like, like that’s, that’s where you get the benefit from this much memory. Like that, the only people who are going to benefit from 512 gigabytes of [00:54:00] unified memory are people who are doing local LLMs. This is not a thing for, for, you know, even like, cause honestly, if you’re. [00:54:07] Christina: Having better integrated, like graphics things, like still for a lot of visual effects houses, maybe Pixar and people like that could use some of these things, but, but everybody else, but I think they’re using like a custom version of Linux for most of, for render man, most of those people are gonna be better off with just like. [00:54:22] Christina: You know, customized GPUs and workstations. So I feel like the main market for this would be like local LLM development. And that would certainly be what I would be interested in playing with him on, right. It would be doing that. So I, it’s weird to me that they, they haven’t at least so far, like leaned into that in, in their outreach for their marketing. [00:54:43] Christina: Cause I’m like, This is what this is like. This is competing in essence with like the, the, um, the thing that a and b showed off at CES, um, and, and some other stuff. Framework’s New Desktop and Laptop Innovations [00:54:54] Christina: Um, and speaking of that, um, framework, uh, which, uh, disclosure, I, I did invest. [00:55:00] In their, uh, community funding round. So I, I, I, you know, I’m in a very minority investor, uh, but like, I, I don’t know anything, you know, beforehand or whatnot, they had an event two weeks ago where they announced some updates to the framework 13 for, for 2025. [00:55:17] Christina: Um, they also showed off, um, it’s coming soon. This framework 12 laptop, which is like a two in one that is. It’s apparently going to be very price, um, uh, like price very well and designed, uh, I think probably for like schools and fleets is it’s what it looks like the kind of the goal is, and I’m looking forward to that because that’d be a great machine to recommend to people who, you know, don’t have MacBook Air money, but. [00:55:41] Christina: Um, need, you know, something reliable and, and repairable, but the big thing that they announced and I did preorder one, um, was this thing called the framework desktop and it’s, it’s kind of a mini PC, um, but it is, um, based on, uh, a new, uh, system on a chip from AMD called, uh, the [00:56:00] codename is the Strix Halo. [00:56:01] Christina: And that is actually a laptop chip, but what they are doing is they are combining it. They’re putting it in a desktop housing. So it’ll have more, uh, cooling and, and, and more dedicated power and hopefully get more performance out of it. And, um, the, the. So it has a built in GPU, built in, you know, um, uh, CPU, um, integrated memory, um, uh, networking. [00:56:25] Christina: The downside of this means that whereas with most framework prop products, you know, you can upgrade everything. They worked with AMD on this and they were like, can we upgrade the RAM? Can we make the RAM upgradable? And, and they just weren’t able to make it work. AMD did actually investigate it and, and they’re open to that potentially, I guess, maybe, maybe for future revisions, but the way that the whole thing was designed, they were not able to, You would only get some of the benefits of, of the memory if it was actually integrated and soldered in. [00:56:50] Christina: So that, that sucks from that perspective, but I feel like that’s an even trade off that that’s just a design of the chip and they decided to go forward with it anyway. You can still put in some add [00:57:00] in cards that doesn’t have full PCI, like that doesn’t have a bunch of PCI express lanes, but you can, you know, put in two M. [00:57:05] Christina: 2 SSDs of your own. Um, unlike what you can do, you know, on a Mac studio or a Mac mini. Um, and, and they, um, they said the integrated graphics is probably about equal to like a 40, 60 mobile processor. So it can do decent enough, you know, graphics. But the real thing is that these chips have been, um. Really, I think, uh, set for, for doing like local LLM type of work, machine learning and, and whatnot. [00:57:32] Christina: And so, um, but here, here’s where it gets interesting. This is the pricing. So the completely maxed out model with, um, uh, so it has three gigahertz base clock. Um, and, and so this is 16 core 32 threat, uh, threads has integrated graphics. It has 128 gigs of, of, um, memory for 2, 000. [00:57:54] Brett: Wow. [00:57:55] Christina: So, um, I pre ordered one. I am sure that the, that [00:58:00] the Mac studio will trounce it, but I’m very, I would equally convinced that I bet that if you, they’ve, they’ve designed these things. [00:58:11] Christina: So you could conceivably have like a rack of them working together. So I bet if you had two of those, I don’t know if, if, if two of them together would be trounced. You see what I’m saying? So, um, I dunno, I, I pre ordered one. Um, it’ll be out like Q3, um, uh, So, so, you know, summer, I guess, um, we’ll see, but, um, you know, like I’m, I’m sure the Apple Silicon is significantly ahead of where AMD is, but that’s another thing I think for folks, at least if you’re looking for LLM sort of stuff. [00:58:41] Christina: Um, the, the, the framework desktop and other companies are also going to be, um, apparently making mini PCs based also based off of this, uh, AMD chip set. And, and I think that’s, that’s interesting for, for local work. So, cause for me, 2, 000, like I was, I, I, I did the pre order, you only had to put like a hundred dollars down. [00:58:59] Christina: I was like. [00:59:00] That’s cool. I’ll bring my own storage. And, you know, I got like the type of fan I wanted and, and you can customize some, some cute stuff like for, for the, the way they’ve made like kind of the, the, the mini case, like only four and a half liters. So it’s bigger than a Mac mini or a Mac studio, but it’s, it’s still pretty tiny. [00:59:15] Christina: Like that’s the, the, that, that, that’s fine for, for a local machine. And then of course, like the following week, the Mac studios are announced and I’m like, damn, well, that would be a really good local LLM machine, but, but, but, but. 128 gigs of RAM, which is going to matter a lot more. Um, at least for me and for my purposes, if I’m running Olama anyway, I kind of don’t care as much about the operating system. [00:59:37] Christina: Um, I mean, like, obviously I love Mac OS, but if, if what I’m doing is doing local model stuff and it kind of doesn’t matter, then, you know, I feel like even if the, the cores on Apple are going to be better, that RAM is what you really want. And, you know, 120 gigs of RAM for, for two grand. I’m like, okay, well, that, that might be [01:00:00] the, the [01:00:00] Brett: Yeah. Well, I look forward to your review when you get the actual machine. We’ll do a follow up [01:00:07] Christina: We’ll do a follow up. Um, speaking of follow up, and I know we’ve been going for a while. We probably need to go to Graphitude, but I did want to hear an update. Cause you got your, your 8 bit, um, [01:00:14] Brett: I [01:00:14] Christina: hand machine. How, how is that? Retro Gaming and Emulation Challenges [01:00:17] Brett: I forgot how hard, like, Super Nintendo games are. Um, [01:00:24] Christina: And they’re, and they’re better than Nintendo games. [01:00:26] Brett: right. But still, like, even like just Super Mario Brothers, like. I’m so much I’m I’m so used to way more responsive machines. Um, and. It’s a, it’s a little frustrating, but like playing, there’s some cool variations of Tetris on it that are fun. [01:00:48] Brett: Um, I got into a motocross game. There’s thousands of games on this. It was, we’re talking about the all eight bit. Um, I can’t remember what they call it, [01:01:00] but it’s like a game station. Um, it’s an emulator that has at least 15 different consoles. Built in from like Commodore 64 [01:01:12] Christina: Somebody took retro through, through like, [01:01:15] Brett: through PlayStation. [01:01:16] Brett: Yeah. And, and like, it’s missing some key, like I really wanted super Mario cart for Nintendo 64 and that’s not on there. And I don’t know why that’s not on there. [01:01:31] Christina: Yeah. Uh, and it’s weird ’cause like all these games, obviously, like this is not like a, a legal thing. If you, if, if you can bring your own ROMs, I can get you the, the rom for that. [01:01:43] Brett: Yeah. I need, it has USB ports. I imagine. I can hack it a little [01:01:48] Christina: Oh, I’m sure you can. I’m sure I’m, I’m sure, I’m sure that it’s just running retro arch under the hood. I, I have, I don’t know that definitively, but I would be shocked if it were not literally just somebody packaging, you know, a cheap, you know, um, uh, you [01:02:00] know, R-M-S-O-C with, um, a retro arch and, and a bunch of Ros they downloaded off the internet right. [01:02:05] Christina: So I, I, I have, I have ROMs, um, [01:02:08] Brett: it was like a hundred bucks, so [01:02:10] Christina: but absolutely [01:02:11] Brett: it’s, it’s nothing fancy. [01:02:13] Christina: no, no. Well, but, but, but I’m saying there was a lot of, there are a lot of these types of devices out there. And so I, I can, I can help you with that. Um, at least getting stuff. Um, yeah, but, uh, yeah, cause it’s interesting. Nintendo 64 games have been really hard to emulate well, because. [01:02:30] Christina: Of how custom that processor was and it took people a really long time to do it when some of the, and then there was kind of this conundrum because there was this big Nintendo hack a few years ago at a bunch of the internals and schematics and stuff of the 64 were part of that hack. But the thing is, is that if you’re going to do like a clean room or burst engineering thing, then you can’t look at that stuff. [01:02:49] Christina: And it’s unclear if some of the people who worked on some of these cores for some of these different things did look at that or not. I think some might have, but I think a lot of them probably kept to their principles and were like. No, we’re [01:03:00] doing a clean room reverse engineering, but it was a really big breakthrough. [01:03:03] Christina: We were talking about the, the Mr. FPGA thing last week. And to be clear, that is not what your system is. Your system is just straight up emulating, but they made a big breakthrough, the Mr. Project last year, and then analog, um, followed around the same time where they were able to reprogram. The Nintendo 64 schematics and there are still a few things with shaders and some stuff that they had to make some modifications to, but that was like a massive breakthrough because that that has been one of the hardest systems to emulate, um, and because it was so custom and because it was powerful enough at the time. [01:03:39] Christina: Um, and so, uh, like I remember, you know, in like a Raspberry Pi three or something. You know, uh, barely being able to play like, um, you know, Donkey, Diddy Kong Racing and like Mario Kart 64, like on, on those types of consoles. Now that was like eight years ago. It’s improved a lot since then, but, [01:04:00] but emulating, um, the N64 has been a challenge. [01:04:04] Christina: So, um, it’s cool that we’re now at that point where like they can even just throw those games on, you know, these, these hundred dollar, you know, boxes. [01:04:13] Brett: What’s wild is my memory of how Good Nintendo 64 graphics look of just being wowed and amazed at, Oh my God, look at, look at this technology. It’s amazing. And now I see it and I’m like, holy shit. This is, this looks like Atari to me now. [01:04:34] Christina: Right. Well, part of that is because you’re looking at it on a, on an LCD. [01:04:39] Brett: Okay, [01:04:40] Christina: No, for real, for real. If you look at it on a CRT, it looks much better because they, that was, yes, yes, [01:04:47] Brett: Because it was designed for [01:04:48] Christina: It was designed for that. It was designed for that, and they did things with certain comb filters and whatnot to really make things look smoother and to make it look less blocky and less pixelated. [01:04:57] Christina: And you don’t get that when you have an LCD. If [01:05:00] anything, it sometimes makes it worse because they can higher res the pixels, which you would think would be a good thing. Oh, I can play this in 4K. I’m like, no, you don’t want to see this in 4K because it was designed to be viewed in, in, you know, um, you know, 480, um, you know, really 320, whatever. [01:05:15] Christina: Um, and, uh, you know, have kind of, you know, filters over it to, to give the sense of motion and all of that. And if that’s up but leveled, all you see are, are the blocks. PlayStation games are even worse because those didn’t even look that good other than rendered scenes. PlayStation games did not look that good to begin with, but play, but Nintendo 64 stuff did, but yeah, it’s, I had the exact same like realization when I, when I played. [01:05:40] Christina: Um, like on a, on a, you know, um, LCD for the first time. And I was like, Oh, okay. But, but, and I don’t, I don’t know if you’re, I don’t know if your system will let you do this or not. If it is based on RetroArch, then, then you can, but there are people who’ve created shader packs and other types of things to improve. [01:05:58] Christina: The, the looks [01:06:00] of, um, of how that stuff works on, um, on LCDs. So, um, I was going to say, that’s the thing you can do next time. You’re you’re up really late with insomnia. Just, just go down the Nintendo 64 emulation rabbit hole. Cause I don’t know if you can tell Brett, but I’ve been through that a few times myself. Sponsor: Rogue Amoeba [01:06:17] Brett: It sounds like it. All right. Well, I’m going to do sponsor number two, which they might complain about being so late in the episode, but they’re going to get their money’s worth out of this because. It’s going to be, you’ll see, you’ll see, it’s going to be worth it. It’s going to be amazing. Uh, this episode is sponsored by Rogue Amoeba makers of powerful audio software for the Mac. [01:06:43] Brett: Christina and I are both big fans of Rogue Amoeba. They have been developing audio focused app for the Mac for over 20 years, going all the way back to OS 10. 2, which is Jaguar. In case, you know, you’ve [01:06:56] Christina: Yep. The first, well, it was the first good one. Let’s be clear on [01:07:00] that. It was the first good OS 10. [01:07:02] Brett: And, uh, Rogamiba’s latest versions, make it a snap to get started with no need to even restart your Mac, which was a thing for a little bit because their software ties in at a low enough level to your audio system that when system integrity protection became a thing, uh, there, there were some workarounds, but these days. [01:07:28] Brett: Rogamiba’s apps don’t even require a restart of your machine. I personally love SoundSource and Loopback, and I use them all the time. SoundSource puts per audio app controls, uh, audio controls, including the ability to apply effects, right in your menu bar. And Loopback is an amazing app for routing signals and working with multiple audio devices. [01:07:51] Brett: And I would be remiss, of course, not to praise audio hijack, uh, the all purpose tool for recording and routing audio on your Mac. Uh, it [01:08:00] can do just about anything with application, audio, or microphone input, and it has a ton of automation possibilities. We’ll be talking a bit more about it in a second. [01:08:09] Brett: You can learn more about all of Rogue Amoeba’s software at macaudio. com slash overtired. That’s Mac audio. com slash overtired. Listeners of overtired can save 20 percent off any purchase through the end of May with the coupon overtired. Just go to Mac audio. com slash overtired and use the coupon overtired, which brings us to craft attitude. [01:08:38] Christina: Yes. Yes. And we figured like this’d be a great time. And like, genuinely, this is a pick of mine because I wanted to talk about this, this feature, which, which came out, um, a couple of weeks ago. Um, anyway, um, but speaking of, uh, my, my, my gratitude this week is actually audio hijack, uh, which is a fantastic, fantastic application that, [01:09:00] uh, I’ve been using God, I think basically as long as I’ve been like full timing, uh, A Mac, which is, which is 18 or 19 years at this point. [01:09:08] Christina: So, um, you know, it, it’s, uh, I, I, uh, we, we use a different recording process for overtired at this point. Um, but if I’m doing, you need to do backup recordings or if I’m doing recordings with other people, or especially when you need to bring in lots of different audio sources, like audio, audio hijack is just an amazing tool. [01:09:27] Christina: Um, along with like loop loopback and sound source, as you mentioned, but one of the things that’s great about it. As you can record from any source and, um, uh, you know, you can build in these, these, these blocks to kind of automate these processes. So I can be like, okay, I have my zoom audio coming in here and I have, you know, maybe audio from, um, like if, if I’m wanting to play back, uh, you know, with, for a soundboard or something, I can have that come in here and I can also separate the channels if I’m talking to multiple people and I can have them routed to these devices, but. [01:09:57] Christina: Um, one of the other things that they introduced, [01:10:00] and they, they first rolled this out, uh, in beta back in like, I think like 2023, it’s like a year and a half ago, um, is a, a, ability to transcribe the audio that you’re recording, and it does this live, and the way, the way it does this is it uses Whisper, which is, um, opening eyes, open source, and, and actually open source, um, a local, Model for doing transcriptions or for doing a voice to text rather. [01:10:25] Christina: Um, and, and you and I have talked about whisper, um, a bunch of the past, cause it’s fantastic. It works really, really well in a bunch of different languages. And so they’ve got that built into, um, a block. So while you’re recording your podcast or your radio interview or whatever the case may be, you can have this transcribed block. [01:10:44] Christina: Plugged into audio hijack. And while you’re recording, it’s also going through the process of transcribing and doing that in real time and creating that nicely for you. So by the time you’re done, that’s one less thing you’ve got to run your audio through, right? Like you could [01:11:00] conceivably record your audio and then just feed it into, you know, a prog, a program like Mac whisper, or use like a command line, um, you know, whisper CPP or whatever, uh, to, to. [01:11:10] Christina: Transcribe, but like the fact that you can do it in real time, um, while you’re recording, I think is just. Freaking awesome. And, and it’s just such a, such a cool feature. [01:11:22] Brett: Yeah. It’s super cool. I, I love audio hijack. I love any app that, that brings like node based editing where you can like drag blocks around on a workspace and like. Connect different outputs to different inputs and like, see it all visually. That was kind of the breakthrough thing for me with, uh, audio hijack and like all of systematic, my older podcasts that is now in retirement, but all of that was recorded with audio hijack. [01:11:57] Brett: Um, bringing in like I could split [01:12:00] my Skype conversations into two different tracks. So to make for easy editing and, and EQing, uh, go ahead [01:12:11] Christina: No, I was going to [01:12:11] Brett: you’re doing an interview, when you’re doing an interview podcast and you never can predict what the other person is going to have for a microphone, having separate tracks is crucial. [01:12:23] Christina: no, it is crucial. And that’s the thing, right? Is that, is that we know we, we used, you know, programs like back when Skype was, um, Uh, thing and, and RIP Skype, Microsoft announced that they are killing Skype in May. Um, pour one out. Like I use that, like that, that sound will be in my head for forever. And like, and, um, and I used to use e cams, um, uh, you know, call recorder, uh, primarily for that, cause it was so easy, but for anything that was more complicated, especially I had multiple. [01:12:50] Christina: People on like the, the, the thing you would use would be like audio hijack. And to my mind, there’s still nothing like audio hijack. Like even when, um, like when I was [01:13:00] doing rocket, like, uh, we had a few kind of bonus episodes and like one of actually our final bonus episode that we did for the show, Simone and I watched the movie her together, and I would not have been able to do that without audio hijack because I was able to bring in the audio from the movie. [01:13:14] Christina: So we were both watching like at the same time. And I was able to bring in the audio from the movie and have that at a lower level and then record our audio tracks separately from zoom so that, and then adjust the levels independently. And then when I was able to edit, when I edited it in a Descript, actually, which was, was great for, for that purpose, I was, I just didn’t have Descript run on the, the, her, um, part, because I was like, I’m not, I’m not having to transcribe that part of it. [01:13:38] Christina: I had to transcribe our other things. I was able to, you know, adjust the timeline and then, you know, um, lower, um, in, in, um, My editing things, you know, make the volume lower, but this was all stuff like I couldn’t have done. Without something like audio hijack. Like I, it just, it would not have been possible. [01:13:55] Christina: Like it really is, you know, your software ultimate, you know, like, [01:14:00] uh, what’s, what’s the term, I guess, like recording deck or mixer or whatever. Right. Like obviously having a, um, um, a separate, like, um, hardware mixer is great too. But, and it works with that, but like, this is a way that you can do so many things. [01:14:14] Christina: And, um, I, uh, I like you, like, I think the way that they visually lay out how the bricks work, like the blocks look like, that just helps my mind, like, feel like, Oh, okay, now I know what’s going on. And I think it’s brilliant, but yeah, so, so, so my, my, my pick is, is audio hijack. Um, and, uh, and I. But I’m a huge fan of all, all of their products and have been a Brogan Viva fan, like for like, they’re one of the original to me, like Mac ass Mac, you know, companies. [01:14:43] Brett: Yep, for sure. And, and I, my secondary pick for today would be loopback. Um, it has a more limited audience. Uh, but if you have say, like I have these complete audio [01:15:00] interfaces that I use that have six different outputs or six different inputs and four different outputs and. Um, with loopback, I can control, I can say, take the input from one and two and route it through my, my Bluetooth output, and then pass that through two outputs, four and six, and, and I can do, I can make like crazy, uh, echo. [01:15:31] Brett: I have, I have all kinds of my echo and my, um, HomePods. Like route through my complete audio and yeah, loopback, loopback makes these really complex scenarios workable, but go ahead. You’re going to [01:15:50] Christina: Uh, I was just gonna say, it’s especially good for anybody if like you’re using OBS a lot. [01:15:55] Brett: Oh, sure. [01:15:55] Christina: if you’re streaming, if you’re using OBS, something like Loopback, Sound Source too, but Loopback especially, it’d [01:16:00] be really, really useful if you’re, you know, dealing with like, I have my streaming machine and I have my broadcast machine, like. [01:16:08] Brett: But my actual pick for today, and I may have mentioned this before. Battery Management with Al Dente Pro [01:16:12] Brett: I have a terrible memory, but al dente pro. [01:16:16] Christina: it’s great. I don’t think we’ve mentioned it before, but I’ve used it. It’s great. [01:16:20] Brett: So what it does is for your laptop, for your Mac laptop, it can set in its most basic form, it can set a cap on how much charge your battery will accept. So that if your laptop is usually plugged in, you can set, say a 70 percent cap so that it’ll never charge to a hundred percent, which is. Bad for the battery to leave it plugged in at a [01:16:51] Christina: charged at 100%. [01:16:52] Brett: period. [01:16:53] Brett: So like my MacBook pro is always at 70%. And then when it unplugs, it [01:17:00] drains, and then it charges back up to 70%. I have the option to cap it up or. Top it off like you can hit top it off and it’ll charge it to 100 so you can go out. You know, you’re going on a trip, you’re going to the coffee house, whatever. [01:17:14] Brett: You can top it up before you go, but then the next time you charge, it’ll only go to 70%. It can discharge even while your MacBook is plugged in. So then you can have, uh, like weekly calibrations where it’ll. Discharge to 15 percent recharge to 100 percent and then discharge to your preferred level. Um, and it can display your actual battery, uh, [01:17:46] Christina: Capacity. Yeah. Yes. [01:17:48] Brett: Yeah, it can display your capacity so I can show you like your degradation of life over time, but it can also there’s a hardware reading. Of what your battery is [01:18:00] actually charged to that is not the same as what the typical battery output in the menu bar will tell you [01:18:08] Christina: Right. [01:18:10] Brett: and it’s. It’s interesting, but also very useful to know what the actual battery charges. [01:18:17] Christina: No, it really is. Yeah. I like [01:18:19] Brett: and it’s on set up. If you’re a setup subscriber, this is a no brainer. If you have a laptop, it’s useless on a desktop machine, but if you have a laptop, highly recommended [01:18:31] Christina: Yeah. No, I’m a big fan. Um, so, um, and, and I think that it’s, it’s a, it’s like 25 I think for a lifetime license or, um, uh, like they do have like a subscription, but if the subscription, you might as well just get set up in my opinion, um, and get a bunch of other apps too. But, um, it’s a great app. I started using it. [01:18:49] Christina: I think I heard about it and then it came to set up and, um, Like, uh, just, I guess for, for background, why people would want this. If you do have your laptop charged, plugged in a [01:19:00] lot, the, the battery health goes down significantly and, and you can wear down the batteries and, and battery replacements, although Apple will do them, you know, it’s a weird thing, like under Apple care, the. [01:19:12] Christina: The, they won’t do it if it’s under 80%, even if you pay them. Um, and, and, and it can be really difficult to, to, to even go in and be like, I want a battery replacement. They’re like, my battery is only doing 85%. They’ll be like, oh, well, we think it’s fine. I’m like, no, but I know that this, you know, the way the battery degregate. [01:19:28] Christina: Degradation works is that it’s, it’s incremental. Like it’s faster rather. Um, I can’t think of the right term. So like, once you get to that point where you’re like in the eighties, like, especially if you’re like in the low eighties exponential, thank you. It will. Super, super, you know, um, degrade much, much faster and, um, and like, but the thing is, is I don’t know how many people are going to go through like the, the cycle themselves of, okay, discharging to 15 percent then charging up and whatnot. [01:19:59] Christina: Like I used to [01:20:00] try to do those calibration things with things like coconut battery and whatnot. But what’s great is, is with Al dente is that it will stop the charging. Apple has some of this built into macOS now, and it’s pretty good. Like in terms of being able to be like, okay, we won’t charge all the way and we’ll do like smarter charging, but it’s not as robust as this. [01:20:18] Christina: And, and this also works. Um, you know, I think it works with Apple, uh, with Intel max too. Um, I’m not sure, but it, yeah. So, so it’ll work with, with older machines too, which is really good. Um, and it’s interesting. Windows machines have had some features like this for a while, where with certain types of, uh, like utilities, you could kind of, or with, with certain BIOS, um, uh, features, it’s a popular BIOS feature. [01:20:43] Christina: You can be like, I’m going to manually have this set to only charge to 8%. What I like about this better in some regards, it’s like you said, that top up feature, because there are times where like. I have, I, I similarly for my personal machine, like I have it set to charge to 80 percent just like, uh, like [01:21:00] you have yours is having to have mine to 80, but because it’s a 14 inch, you know, if I’m going out, depending on what I’m doing, I don’t want to be in that scenario where I only have 80 percent power so I can just like top it up. [01:21:12] Christina: And, and then, you know, I’m, I feel confident that my, my battery is going to last a really long time. And so you’re not losing out on anything in that regard, your battery staying healthy or longer, it’ll do the automatic. Like I just love to have the set calibration thing every week. Cause I’m like, okay, you know, I spent a lot of money on this laptop. [01:21:30] Christina: I don’t want to have to deal with. You know, getting the battery replaced. And I don’t want to deal with a scenario where I’m like three years and I’m like, this laptop is a great, but his battery sucks and Apple makes it really difficult to repair or replace. So [01:21:41] Brett: El Tente even controls your, the light on the plug. So like when it’s, when it’s, um, discharging while you’re plugged in it, like it flashes orange and then when it hits your cap, which for me is 70%, it [01:22:00] turns green to show it’s fully charged, even though it’s not. I like that. [01:22:04] Christina: I like that too. And I don’t know how they’ve been able to like do all the low level stuff they’ve done. Cause I know that Apple really probably doesn’t want people doing some of that stuff, but, but they’ve done a great job with it. So like, I’m, I’m a, I’m a big fan. Conclusion and Final Thoughts [01:22:17] Brett: Alright, well, thank you, Incogni, thank you, um, Rogamiba for keeping us on the air, it’s been a pleasure, you good with, you good with wrapping up here, [01:22:32] Christina: Yeah. I’m great with, with, with wrapping up here. This is fantastic. [01:22:36] Brett: Alright, get some sleep. [01:22:37] Christina: Get some sleep.

Brett and Christina return from a break (sans Jeff for a couple weeks) with an episode that’s part health saga, part tech chatter, and part retro gaming geek-out. Christina boasts a new gig at Google DeepMind, while Brett recounts his personal health battle featuring an unexpected guest: shingles. They commiserate over the state of big tech job markets and share their takes on ReadWise and the latest AR glasses. Sponsor Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code OVERTIRED at incogni.com/overtired and get 60% off an annual plan. Show Links Google Deepmind VITURE glasses Analogue Mister Pi Mister FPGA Retro SuperStation kindaVim Readwise Reader Shortcutie Supercharge (now on Setapp) Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Catching Up 00:12 Christina’s New Job at Google DeepMind 01:42 Job Market Challenges 05:02 Mental Health Check-In 05:11 Health Updates and Shingles Experience 13:07 Reflections on Disabilities and Empathy 19:32 Social Media and Digital Presence 25:32 Sponsor: Incogni 27:38 Brett’s New New M4 MacBook Pro 29:03 Exploring Viture XR Glasses 29:44 Comparing Viture XR to Oculus and Vision Pro 33:24 Retro Gaming Consoles and Emulators 41:47 Gratitude and App Recommendations 46:45 Readwise and Productivity Tools 53:13 Closing Remarks and Sponsor Shoutouts Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript 426 [00:00:00] Introduction and Catching Up [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, welcome back after a little break. This is Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren. Christina, how’s it going? [00:00:11] Christina: I’m good. I’m good. Christina’s New Job at Google DeepMind [00:00:12] Christina: Uh, I am no longer unemployed since we last talked. I, I have, I went on a cruise and uh, and then I started a new job. [00:00:21] Brett: I, I’d be willing to bet that there are a lot of people in our audience who are dealing with the frustration of how hard it is to find a job right now. So everyone’s jealous of you just hopping around between jobs like a, like a, like people used to in tech [00:00:39] Christina: No, I [00:00:40] Brett: jobs got so hard to get. [00:00:42] Christina: No, look, I, I, I don’t in any way, like I’m, I’m, I’m incredibly, incredibly grateful. Um, so, uh, I, I, my new job is I, I’m working in, uh, developer relations, um, at Google DeepMind. So that, that was, uh, that was the job that I took and I’m, I’m, um, I’m really excited. Um, I’m, it’s been a couple of weeks, uh, since I [00:01:00] started, there’s a ton to learn, um, uh, a ton of new processes to, but, but there’s a ton to learn in both ways, both about the company and how they work compared to, you know, what I’ve been doing the last. Three years at GitHub and then culturally kind of, you know, like five years before that at Microsoft. Um, and then, um, there’s a, just a ton to, to get caught up on, on, on all the, the, the Gemini and, and, um, AI studio and, and, and Jim of the open model stuff. So there’s just been, uh, it’s been, um, a lot, but, um, I’m incredibly, incredibly grateful that I have a job and that, that I was, you know, um, I guess like able to do, like you said, kind of like the traditional job movement kind of thing. [00:01:41] Christina: So Job Market Challenges [00:01:42] Brett: Did you know that while unemployment is still pretty low, um, and it was like record low a couple years ago, but it doesn’t [00:01:52] Christina: that was a lie. [00:01:54] Brett: but job hiring, job hiring is actually at [00:02:00] like great depression rates right now. Like it is, there’s a job freeze out there and I know I felt it like I’m ready to, I’m ready to look around, but the more I look around and the more I do like initial interviews, the more I realized, like, I just don’t have a lot of options right now. [00:02:17] Brett: And, um, I’m grateful that I have a certain amount of stability with my job right now. We’ll see how long that lasts. [00:02:24] Christina: Yeah. I mean, the only thing that I’ve kind of like come to terms with over the last like few years is it’s like the only certainty is that there is none, right? Like the days of stability, um, I think in, in, in big tech, like regardless of like where you are, like is gone, which is. Um, because that was obviously like [00:02:44] Brett: Oh, it used to be, yeah, [00:02:45] Christina: used [00:02:46] Brett: I can barely remember that, but it used to be like, if you can get a job in tech, you’re set. [00:02:51] Christina: Totally. Totally. And, and I was one of those people where I was just like, Oh man, like, uh, I felt like I kind of missed the wave a little bit because like I, I went from an industry that did [00:03:00] not have job stability and then like I had like a good five years or so, you know, and, and, uh, you know, and there was some, and then like it, it hit and it’s like, there is not anymore. [00:03:09] Christina: Um, and, uh, but, but yeah, no, your, your point about like the hiring levels being low are, um, or non existent are so true. And then the other thing too is like, When a few years ago, when the, the, uh, Biden administration was like, Oh, we have record low unemployment. Even then I was like, you’re full of shit because you only count unemployment, not underemployment. [00:03:31] Christina: And there are so many things there that don’t get like reported. So if you have any job at all, or if you’ve worked anytime in like the last, like whatever the, the, the, you know, the, the way is that they’ve like rated it, then you’re counted as an employee. But that means that there are people who’ve been laid off, but now we’re driving occasionally for Uber. [00:03:48] Christina: Or are, you know, doing like an occasional freelance thing, like is counting, you know, [00:03:53] Brett: who have given up on finding employment. They’re no longer [00:03:57] Christina: huge, they’re no longer counting because they’re not paying into the, they’re [00:04:00] not getting unemployment benefits that my pain into the system. And so we just celebrated, Oh yeah, it’s, it’s so great. No, it’s not. [00:04:05] Christina: And it hasn’t been, and it’s really terrible and like not to get too ahead of things or whatever, but like, it does make me feel sort of conflicted because like my current employment and like the things that I’m interested in focusing on the future for lots of reasons, like AI. Are actively also being used to go potentially like reduce employment across industries. [00:04:30] Christina: So like, I, I don’t not feel weird about that. I, I, I’m fully aware of, of the dichotomy and, and, uh, like, uh, you know, hypocrisy and what I’m, I’m fully aware of it, but I’m also, I’m just going to fucking be honest. We live in a system and we live in a society, you know, as, as the saying goes, and I, I’m not going to opt out of, you know what I mean? [00:04:56] Christina: Like I’m going to be selfish. So like as, as much as that sucks to [00:05:00] say, [00:05:01] Brett: Yeah. All right. Mental Health Check-In [00:05:02] Brett: Should we do a mental health check in? [00:05:04] Christina: yeah, yeah. Let’s start with you because, um, I want to hear how you’ve been doing, especially with your health stuff and everything else. [00:05:11] Brett: yeah. Yeah. Health Updates and Shingles Experience [00:05:11] Brett: I’ve actually been doing really well So I I got my diagnoses we talked about that and I started doing some simple interventions for some of my health problems like the passing out I just I drink three liters of water a day with five grams of salt in it And that on its own, simple over the counter remedy, I, I no longer get dizzy when I stand up. [00:05:42] Brett: Um, I don’t pass out at all. Uh, most of my life is because of that returning to some, some, it’s a new normal, but it’s a normal, and I’m able to like drive and get myself around and. Uh, We go up and down my [00:06:00] stairs so I can get down to my office easily. And, um, so that’s all been really good. I got shingles last week. [00:06:07] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. You sold us that. And like, that’s insane. How, okay. First of all, like you had chicken pox as a kid, right? [00:06:13] Brett: It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t shing chickenpox does not immunize you from shingles. Chickenpox doesn’t even technically immunize you from chickenpox. Uh, there’s a certain, there’s a certain, they don’t know exactly how many years it gives you immunity for. But it’s certainly not a lifetime. And the virus that causes chickenpox stays with you your entire life. [00:06:34] Brett: It never goes away. It just waits for an opportune time and then it can surface as shingles. Um, and, and you shouldn’t be able to get shingles again within like they, they say minimum of a year. Um, and you have to wait a year before you can get the shingles antivirus vaccine. Yes. [00:06:53] Christina: whatever. Yeah. I was, okay. That’s what I, okay. So, but like, but you’re so young, like that’s cause like, I was just thinking, I mean, [00:07:00] I guess [00:07:00] Brett: Oh, my, my ex wife Aditi got shingles when she was, must’ve been about 32, 33. Um, and yeah, it’s, it can happen at any point, um, in your adult life. Even with or without chicken pox, like when I was a kid, we still had chicken pox parties. I don’t know if you were around for that, [00:07:24] Christina: No, no, I was, [00:07:25] Brett: in the neighborhood would get chicken pox and all the parents would get all the, and get everyone fucking chicken pox and, and supposedly immunize them for, you know, their life. [00:07:36] Brett: But it might prevent childhood chicken pox from happening again. But since it only happens once, why force it on anyone? They don’t do that anymore. Nobody does chicken pox parties [00:07:48] Christina: No, no, no, no. So I was like, right at the era when like there was the vaccine, but I still got it because this girl in kindergarten, Brandy, her dad brought her in. [00:08:00] And I remember this because I knew, I knew like there was something wrong. And like, she was kind of sitting like, she was sitting near me and she was like using my crown. [00:08:07] Christina: And I was like, Brandy’s sick and I’m going to get sick. And I think like the dad was like, brought her in, like, didn’t know, I think she might have chicken pox or something. And, and I don’t know, I don’t know if he said that. Uh, I just remember knowing that she was, yeah. Not well, and that she was using my crayon and I was like, I’m going to get sick. [00:08:23] Christina: And yep. Like, like that is how I got chicken box. Like that is, I know it, that is how I got chicken box. I woke up like on a Saturday and I had like something on my face and I still have a little scar on, it was like the first one, like on my chin and I was like picking at it and I was like, why do I have a pimple? [00:08:36] Christina: And my mom was like, Oh shit. Um. And, and I might’ve given it to the next door neighbors, but, but this was like, it was that weird time because the vaccine had just come out. Um, but because I got it like naturally, you know, it was like too late. [00:08:53] Brett: Um, yeah, well, so this happened after I had 10 days of insomnia over the course of 10 [00:09:00] days, I got like a total of 15 hours of sleep, maybe 18 hours of sleep over 10 days, um, which comes out to, you know. Less than two hours a night. Um, and it was my body and my immune system was just wrecked from not sleeping. [00:09:15] Brett: And, um, finally my doctor put me on trazodone, which helped for a couple of nights and as soon as I started sleeping again, then I got shingles. Um, and at first, like, so I’ve started also as part of my, uh, mass cell activation syndrome, I get, uh, histamine reactions and apparently All kinds of foods are high in histamines. [00:09:40] Brett: And I had really didn’t know what histamines were until this started happening, but like any food that you leave in the fridge for three days starts to build histamines, but things like aged meat, take things like pepperoni, things like, um, tofu and soy sauce, all are high in histamines. [00:10:00] And if I hit a certain threshold of histamines in a day, I get like horrible skin burning. [00:10:07] Brett: And, uh, I guess that’s the primary, the primary way it manifests for me is with this intense prickly skin burning that I get. Um, and so at first when I got shingles, I thought I was having some kind of histamine reaction that was showing up as like pox on my skin. Um, and, I believed that for a good 12 hours, but my histamine reactions really only lasts for about half an hour and then they fade and this kept going. [00:10:37] Brett: And I was like, Oh, this must be a really bad histamine reaction. So then I started Googling, started doing a little web searching. Why is this happening to me? And the first thing that came up was shingles. And I was like, Oh yeah, I’ve heard of this. So I went to the doctor and they’re like, yep, you have shingles. [00:10:54] Brett: And, uh, they put me on Valtrex and. [00:11:00] They prescribed gabapentin for my pain, but I was already taking 1800 milligrams of gabapentin. So that basically I was already covered at night anyways. So I got through it. It lasted about, um, five, six days and then I was fully recovered. I feel fine now. Yeah. So that’s my health, mental health wise. [00:11:29] Brett: I’m also doing pretty well. Um, I had to cut, right. I had to cut back my Vivense a little bit. My doctor, while we’re trying to figure out my whole sleep thing, wanted to like reduce my stimulant intake a bit, which is fine. It didn’t, it hasn’t really affected my like daytime concentration levels going down like 10 milligrams. [00:11:55] Brett: And. Uh, my focus has been pretty good. I’ve been getting my work [00:12:00] done. I’ve been, um, still a little slow getting back into doing the dishes and walking the dog after the shingles. But like, I’m starting to pick back up on that. And I would say overall, um, if I can keep my sleep up, I’m doing all right. [00:12:19] Christina: Good, good. Well, I’m really glad to hear about that because I’ve been worried about you for both the health and the mental health stuff. So, um, [00:12:28] Brett: Yeah. It’s, it’s been a, it’s been a ride, but I think, uh, I think things are leveling out for me. [00:12:34] Christina: good. I’m really glad. And, and I hope that like keep the other stuff like an in check, like I’m glad, like you’re not passing out anymore or anything, but like, I hope that like this new normal can still be more temporary and that, you know, you can get to a point where you’re feeling like you were like before, you were having [00:12:50] Brett: Yeah, I feel like that’s possible now for a while there. It seemed like, like I was screwed and my life would never be the same again, but it seems like, yeah, I [00:13:00] might get back to, uh, to feeling more like a whole person again. [00:13:05] Christina: That would be really good. That Reflections on Disabilities and Empathy [00:13:07] Brett: Not that being disabled makes you a non whole person. I don’t [00:13:11] Christina: No, I know. Well, that’s not that. That’s not. [00:13:13] Brett: have, like, I got really down about my perceived disabilities and it made me really aware of like, what. Disabled people go through and the kind of, um, internal and external, uh, discrimination they do face. [00:13:32] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:13:33] Brett: and I, I’ve always been careful about that, but now I’m like truly aware of it and, and trying to catch myself from being ableist when I can help it. [00:13:44] Christina: Yeah. But I mean, like, I, I think though, the, just saying like, cause obviously you’re not saying the people who, but, but, but I think there’s like important things to differentiate between two, right? Like there, there are like, when you have a temporary thing and this isn’t in any way to discount or, or, or like, like make a qualification about, [00:14:00] uh, people who, who live with disabilities or whatever, but like when it’s temporary, I think that we can feel and like perceive like. [00:14:08] Christina: You know what I mean? Like if it is a loss and it does suck versus like, and how you cope with it is different than if something is permanent, right? Like if something is permanent, whether you, whether you’re born with it or you acquire it, like you can, you can come up with solutions and like you can come up with like ways to, to, you know. Exactly. And, and even just like mentally like deal with, with, with it, right. Or it will figure out like, okay, I can still thrive regardless of this. Right. But when it’s like a temporary thing or you don’t know if it’s going to be temporary or longer, like it’s, it’s much more frustrating. Like I gained a lot of empathy when I, um, uh, was hit by the car and I broke my wrist and I, but, but when I was still in traction before I got the cast on and I couldn’t type and I had to like use my left hand for everything. [00:14:51] Christina: And I was like, what am I going to do? Right. Like, I, I can’t like. You know, uh, and this is before, uh, voice to speech stuff was as good as it is now. [00:15:00] Now, we are at a place I think where I would have been able to even do some coding type of stuff, you know, with my voice, which just was not even really a thing seven years ago, which is, which is wild to think about, but it wasn’t. [00:15:11] Christina: Um, but, um, Like, but just that, that brief kind of period and kind of realize, and I was like, wow, I’ve taken so many things for granted, but B, it did make me think when I was looking at solutions, I was like, okay, if I had to live like this all the time, I would be able to figure out a one handed keyboard. [00:15:26] Christina: I would be able to, you know, figure out like other stuff, but when it’s like a thing and you’re like, okay, this is maybe like a, like a, a six week thing. It’s different, you know, and, and, and it’s, and it’s a different challenge and it doesn’t, yeah, you know, like, again, like you like not trying to be like ableist in any way, but just acknowledging, like, it sucks when things, especially related to your, your physical body change and you can’t do what you used to do. [00:15:56] Brett: So how are you? [00:15:58] Christina: I’m good. I’m good. Um, [00:16:00] I’m mental health is okay. Um, you know, going through a lot of changes and just kind of like dealing with all of that stuff. Um, but I’m just, um, which in some ways like being overwhelmed can be a good like way to press down anything else that’s going on. So, you know, it’s just like, just overrun your senses. [00:16:19] Christina: So yeah, I’m, I’m doing pretty good. Like [00:16:21] Brett: What else could be going on? I don’t know what you could be talking [00:16:24] Christina: yeah, exactly. I I’m honestly, I’m doing everything I can to like, not focus. And I know this comes from a place of privilege. I get it. I’m not discounting that, but I also have to protect my own mental health. And for my own mental health, I’m like not, I’m actively trying to not engage as much as I possibly can. [00:16:41] Christina: Cause I just can’t do it. [00:16:43] Brett: Yeah, I’m the same. And we can we can talk about that separately, but go on with your mental health. [00:16:49] Christina: no, that, but that is kind of part of it, right? So I’m just, you know, trying to stay, you know, focused on other things and just, and yeah, avoidism, you know, sometimes it’s a necessary thing. Like I’m all about [00:17:00] confronting stuff and facing it, but if there’s nothing that we can really do, [00:17:03] Brett: Exactly. Like why, why lose sleep when you can’t make a difference? Like do what you can figure out where you can fit in. But paying attention to every little news story right now and getting. You know, online upset about every little thing that happens is going to kill you because it’s not going to stop and it’s not going to let up and you’re asking for a life of torment. [00:17:33] Christina: totally, totally. [00:17:36] Brett: Yeah, I was, um, are you done with your mental health [00:17:41] Christina: I’m done with my mental health. Yeah. [00:17:42] Brett: This isn’t on our list to talk about, but I was going through. My, I, I added basically like my entire data hoarding life to Devin think, [00:17:54] Christina: Uh [00:17:54] Brett: and it was surfacing some things that I had forgotten about. And I [00:18:00] found the, when Tua shut down, I made everyone books of everything they’d written for Tua. [00:18:07] Brett: Um, I think I have yours somewhere, but I really only kept track of my own and I was reading through it and man, I was actually a pretty good writer. I don’t know what happened to me since then, but [00:18:20] Christina: You’re a great writer. I think, [00:18:21] Brett: I don’t remember writing any of those words. [00:18:25] Christina: If you have mine, I would love it. Like, if you’re ever able to come across it, I would, [00:18:28] Brett: Yeah, I’ll see what I can dig [00:18:29] Christina: That would, that would be fantastic. But, because I would just love to go and see, like, early Christina writing. It’s always so funny because writing is one of those things that, like, You really do. [00:18:39] Christina: It is a muscle and it is one of those things that, that you can, um, uh, you get better at it the more you do it, but you can also get like rustier, like if you don’t do it all the time or if it changes. And I noticed that even with myself, right? Like I don’t write the way that I used to and I can get it. I can get it back. [00:18:55] Christina: I feel like, but it’s not like if I, if I was to go back into the thing where they’re like, [00:19:00] you need to write this number of posts a day or this number of things a day, I could do that. But like, it would take me. At least like, you know, a few weeks, you know, [00:19:10] Brett: a few weeks a month. Yeah, [00:19:11] Christina: yeah, a month, a month, a month to like ramp up again. [00:19:14] Christina: Um, [00:19:16] Brett: that muscle every day and getting back into it. [00:19:18] Christina: well, this is why, like, honestly, maybe this is a thing I need to like, um, make myself do like for my own mental health is I used to like journal or at least write for myself like every day. And I haven’t done that in years. And I feel like that would be. Social Media and Digital Presence [00:19:32] Christina: Uh, a good thing for a long time, like, like Twitter and social media and things like that, even though it wasn’t long form, was at least still a way to like, write, um, and, and express and kind of exercise that a little bit, but all of that is such a cesspool and hard to, you know. [00:19:48] Christina: Navigate like, where do I post and where are my people and all that that I’m just like, and yeah, I, I am still on Twitter or X or whatever. Um, and, and that is largely for work reasons and no, I’m not going to apologize for it [00:20:00] and I’m not going to defend it. It is what it is. Like we all have things that we have to do. [00:20:03] Christina: And if people are unhappy with me for that, I respect that. Um, I’ve tried to be on some of the other platforms too, but it, it just sucks because everything is, you know, dispersed and, and [00:20:13] Brett: I held out on Twitter for quite a while. I just deleted my account last week, um, because I had checked it a couple times over a few month period and I was not getting any DMS. Like the reason I was hanging onto it was mostly because I used to get like, um, Mark tech support questions, uh, via DM there. [00:20:35] Brett: Um, and sometimes like press inquiries and sponsorship inquiries and things like that via DM and that was not happening and. Um, I wasn’t active there anymore. [00:20:47] Christina: Right. I mean, at that point, there’s [00:20:49] Brett: of wanted [00:20:49] Christina: there. [00:20:50] Brett: the only reason I would have kept my account there is so that no one else could take my handle and, and make fake [00:21:00] statements on my behalf. [00:21:01] Brett: I don’t know that I’m a target for that kind of thing. I don’t think I’m popular enough for that to be a concern. Um, so I just. I just, I couldn’t, I couldn’t in good conscience maintain any presence on the platform anymore. And no judgment, like, I [00:21:19] Christina: No, no, no, and, and, and, no, no, no, no, and, and, and, and I don’t feel judged that way, and I, and I respect that. Like I said, like, I feel like if that’s people’s, like, thing, like, that is, I completely respect that, and I wouldn’t tell anybody, like, oh, well, that’s. You know, uh, uh, you’re, you know, invalid for, for thinking that, or, or your morality is, should be focused on more important things. [00:21:38] Christina: Like, that’s not at all what I think I’m like, you, that’s how you feel. And if you’re not getting anything out of it, you shouldn’t be someplace like even putting the morality stuff aside. And, and I don’t think we should, but even putting that aside, if you’re not getting anything out of someplace, like you don’t need to be there, right? [00:21:51] Christina: Like if, if people aren’t, if your people aren’t there and if it’s not [00:21:54] Brett: If you’re not getting anything out of someplace and it’s actively toxic. [00:21:58] Christina: Right, right. Then, then, [00:22:00] then, like, then, then, fuck it. Right? Um, and, and I certainly don’t get out of it what I, I once did. Right? But there are reasons that I have to be there. And so, that is, that is fine. Um, for, for me. But it sucks though, just because it’s like, again, like, all the platforms suck in their own ways. [00:22:16] Christina: And you know, you know, we have to kind of, and if you have people who are everywhere, then it’s like, you have to replicate things everywhere. Like even just when I announced like that I was changing jobs, I had to like do it like on six different places where before, like I could just like pen a tweet, you know, and be like, okay, everyone knows. [00:22:33] Christina: Um, it is what it is, but [00:22:37] Brett: I keep forgetting about LinkedIn and all of this and like, as much as I don’t want to think LinkedIn matters for, for my, for my circle and my tech job and all of that, like, I, I log into LinkedIn and I’ll always have like 40 to 50 messages waiting for me because I haven’t checked it for like a month. [00:22:58] Christina: And that’s how I feel. I’m terrible with [00:23:00] LinkedIn. Like, and I know it’s important and I know it should be like more active there. I just, I can’t. [00:23:05] Brett: Of course, out of those 50 messages, like five of them will just be LinkedIn trying to sell me on LinkedIn premium. [00:23:12] Christina: Yeah. And, and I, I, I, I, I pay for LinkedIn premium. Well, okay. So Microsoft gives people, gives employees a 75 percent discount. So it’s like 20 a month. Now, as an alumni, I apparently. They have an alumni program where you can still get the discount on LinkedIn and some other things. And for the first year, the alumni program is free. [00:23:35] Christina: So great. So it means that I still get access to the employee discounts, at least like for the software and, um, a couple of other things. And then I think it’s like a hundred dollars a year or whatever. And, and, um, and I don’t, I don’t know if I’ll renew. Well, it depends if I’m still using LinkedIn premium because there. [00:23:51] Christina: The benefits of LinkedIn premium is you can send a message to anybody. And there are a couple of other things too that are, you know, can be useful, especially if you’re ever asked to like post [00:24:00] content or whatever. But like, um, I would never pay personally, I would never pay 60 a month for it. Um, Oh, you also get LinkedIn learning, LinkedIn learning, which is valuable. [00:24:08] Christina: So that’s like lynda. com, but like a lot of. You know, the library, I think most, most public libraries have deals with LinkedIn learning, um, pro tip, if, if you’re wanting to like get really good training courses and whatnot, check with your local library and see if they have a LinkedIn learning subscription, they probably do in which case. [00:24:24] Christina: You know, you get access to a ton of stuff because, because LinkedIn learning is actually a really great resource, but like I would personally not pay 60 a month, but 20 is, you know, different. And I was not able to expense it before if I’m actively using things in the new role, I might be able to, I don’t know. [00:24:45] Christina: Um, and, uh, but, but regardless, 20 is. Is, is a much different, um, uh, like calculation, so, you know, like that, that’s, that, that’s fine. [00:25:00] But, um, uh, Yeah. So I don’t get those, but I get like a lot of, and I’m sure you get this too, because you work at a big tech company. Like you get lots of people connecting with you because they want, and I completely understand, but they, they, they want jobs or they want advice on how to get a job or other stuff. [00:25:14] Christina: And I’m like, I, I don’t know how to help you, especially if you’re [00:25:17] Brett: Yeah, [00:25:17] Christina: country where we’ve never met. Like, I, I, I don’t know how to help you, you know? [00:25:21] Brett: I do. No. All right. I want to tell you about my new AR glasses, but first I am going to. Take a sponsor break. Um, Sponsor: Incogni [00:25:32] Brett: this episode is sponsored by Incogni, a cutting edge service designed to safeguard your personal data. Did you know that data brokers collect and sell your sensitive personal information? This leads to unwanted spam, identity theft, and a loss of control over what’s shared online. [00:25:50] Brett: From people search sites to targeted scams, the risks are real and they’re affecting lives every day. But there’s good news. 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You can extend the same robust protection to up to four additional family members. This means that your entire family or your close circle can benefit from incognis [00:27:00] vigilant data removal and monitoring service, providing peace of mind for everyone. [00:27:05] Brett: Take control of your digital privacy. Now visit incognito. com slash overtired. That’s I N C O G N I and secure your data today. Sign up and enjoy a 30 day money back guarantee. Protect your privacy with incognito and experience peace of mind. [00:27:23] Brett: Knowing your personal information is safe. Take your personal data back with incognito. Use the code overtired at the link in the show notes or visit incognito. com slash overtired and get 60 percent off an annual plan. Brett’s New New M4 MacBook Pro [00:27:38] Brett: So, um, so I’ve been working on, I got my new, new. M4 MacBook Pro, this time with two terabytes of storage instead of the mistaken 256 gigabytes of storage that I had gotten, um, and two terabit, two terabytes is the right amount for me.[00:28:00] [00:28:00] Brett: Um, like I immediately filled up about a terabyte of it and now I have a terabyte of like room to breathe. Um, so I’m, I’m pretty good with that. I. It is so fast. I got the M4 Max Pro Pro it’s the pro and it it’s 10 cores and 48 gigs of RAM. And it is so nice to work on that. I actually have been neglecting my M1 studio. [00:28:30] Brett: Um, And that has meant on my, on my studio, I have two 32 inch monitors, um, that. I was really used to, and at first working on a laptop, even a 16 inch laptop screen seemed very confining. Um, but I got really good at using spaces, which and full screen apps, which I [00:29:00] had never. Appreciated before. Exploring Viture XR Glasses [00:29:03] Brett: And then I just yesterday got a pair of Vicher. [00:29:09] Brett: It looks like virtue, V I T U R E, it’s Vicher. Um. They’re not even AR, they’re VR glasses, but, um, they [00:29:21] Christina: think they call them XR or something. [00:29:23] Brett: what does that even mean? [00:29:25] Christina: I don’t know. Like, uh, yeah. Yeah. I can’t remember what the XR stands for yet. I think [00:29:31] Brett: Yeah, I think you’re correct though. And, they look like, like a pair of Ray Bans. And, um, like I own, um, Uh, what’s the metal one? Oculus. Comparing Viture XR to Oculus and Vision Pro [00:29:44] Brett: I, I own an Oculus and it’s okay, but it is ungainly and it can’t connect to your, your Mac. Um, like you can’t use it as an external display in your Mac. So that’s what intrigued me about the Vire, vier [00:30:00] Vitor, um, glasses is, they’re like 400 bucks and um, and you can set up multiple desktops. [00:30:11] Brett: In the glasses for your Mac book and they connect over a USB C port. And so sitting at my Mac book, I can see through the bottom of the glasses. I can see my keyboard and my track pad if I need to. And then I have, right now I have it set up to have three desktops. Um, and I can pan left and right to see all three desktops, um, at once. [00:30:36] Brett: And. I am pretty impressed. I think it’s a little jittery compared to like the Oculus and I’m certain compared to like, uh, the vision pro, uh, for 400 bucks, it does the trick [00:30:50] Christina: Yeah, I mean, like, like, let’s put this in perspective. Yeah, I think like the price for the because I’m looking at their website right now. It’s it’s 4. 59. But the limited time [00:31:00] offer is 50 off. And I bet that limited time offer has been the limited time offer for a while. [00:31:04] Christina: Um, [00:31:05] Brett: be, uh, [00:31:06] Christina: correct, right? So you’re talking about like 410 before, you know, tax or whatever. And, um, they’re claiming, um, you know, uh, 135 inch, 120 Hertz, full HD display. Um, and, uh, you know, so that’s obviously going to be lower resolution than the vision pro, but the vision pro is starts at 3, 500, but. But you know, like that’s only going to give you like, I think like the smallest amount of storage. [00:31:34] Christina: So if you want anything decent, you’re starting at like, I think like 3, 700 and then you’ve got to add in, you know, getting the right strap because the straps that come in the box are garbage. You’ve got to get the Falcon strap and you’ve got to get like some other things and you probably want to, you know what I mean? [00:31:49] Christina: By the time you get tax involved, you’re spending over 4, 000 period. End of story. Unless you live in a tax free state. So like. [00:31:56] Brett: it’s 10 times as [00:31:58] Christina: It’s ten times as much and, and, [00:32:00] and, you know, oh, and there are no apps. So, you know, your experience is, is pretty limited. Whereas this, um, uh, now, is there an app that you use with it? [00:32:10] Christina: Like, is that what controls? Okay. [00:32:12] Brett: It has, it has this app called space Walker, um, and it pops up and. Asked for screen recording permissions, and then it gives you a menu of like one display that is basically just a mirror of your desktop display or, you know, any up to like six stack displays. Um, and the only one I’ve tried so far is the three horizontal. [00:32:37] Brett: Configuration, um, and that, cause that’s pretty much the way I usually set up my desktop, like in IRL to, [00:32:46] Christina: Right. Yeah. [00:32:48] Brett: so yeah, it’s, it’s working [00:32:52] Christina: yeah, I’m like looking at it because I’m actually kind of interested. There would be some [00:32:56] Brett: great for watching movies on your iPhone [00:32:58] Christina: Well, that’s what I. [00:32:59] Brett: it when [00:33:00] I travel. [00:33:00] Christina: Well, that’s what I was thinking. I was like, if I was thinking for movies, it could be really good. And I was also thinking like, um, I’m looking at the website, like they have like it showing it with the steam deck and the steam deck. [00:33:09] Christina: I feel like that would be a really perfect like way of, of getting, you know, I [00:33:15] Brett: Yeah. And, and with a switch, it’s supposed to be really good with a switch too. [00:33:20] Christina: Yeah, yeah. Um, I have to say, like, sorry, go on. Retro Gaming Consoles and Emulators [00:33:24] Brett: no, you don’t, I’m sorry, I’m changing the topic cause I just found this, um, Uh, this product, I think the company was called all eight bit. Have you seen this? Uh, it’s like a little HDMI box. That’s like four inches by one inch. And it has like every classic emulator, every time, every classic, uh, console emulator dating back to probably Atari. [00:33:51] Christina: Oh yeah. I’m seeing this now. [00:33:52] Brett: And it comes with like every game and it’s like, I think it was like 200 bucks and you’re basically buying [00:34:00] like 10 different classic console systems and hundreds of games. And I’m not a big like gamer, but I do have nostalgia for like old NES, a super SNES games and even some like Nintendo 64 is included in there. [00:34:20] Brett: And playing like Mario cart would be a blast. So I went ahead and I bought that. I haven’t gotten it yet, but I bought it. [00:34:27] Christina: No, I’m interested to see what it is. I mean, I have a, I have a feeling like I need to like look at the, the, the specs of a feeling like, um, I, I know like there, there are a lot of these, these, um, types of boxes out there, but this, this one’s cool, like in terms of it coming with, um, the controllers and, and obviously, and, and, and the cores, which is what the systems are known as being, um, you know, installed. [00:34:47] Christina: And then, um, but, uh, I’ve been using this thing, so there’s, are you familiar with, um, uh, The, uh, the Mr. FPGA program, um, um, um, I guess like a project. [00:34:59] Brett: No, [00:34:59] Christina: [00:35:00] So, so, so Mr., uh, or known as like Mr. FPGA, it’s basically an open source project that like will recreate, um, classic gaming consoles, but it will do it on an FPGA based hardware rather than emulation. [00:35:12] Christina: So, um, are you familiar with FPGAs? [00:35:15] Brett: I am not. I was going to ask you to explain that to [00:35:18] Christina: Okay, so an FPGA, I think that stands for, I think it is Field Programmable, uh, Graphics Array, I think that’s what it is. Let me check that FPGA wiki. Um, [00:35:30] Brett: golf association. [00:35:32] Christina: I was correct. Uh, no, it’s not graphics. It’s Field Programmable, um, Gate Array. But basically, this is like a, a type of, um, circuit that can be, like, programmed to, Exactly emulate or not even emulate, but I guess like basically be like the same, like run the same instruction set. [00:35:47] Christina: It says another type of hardware. So like how people started using these things or how I first found out about these things, uh, probably like, like 10 or 11 years ago was that people would, would program these, these boards to basically, um, [00:36:00] uh, perfectly, um, uh, like emulator or playback the byte code of like older, um, uh, like, uh, Computing systems, you know, like Commodores or Amigas or even like early Macs and and they were able to to do that. [00:36:12] Christina: And so that’s made them really, really good for video game consoles, especially older consoles like like the Nintendo Super Nintendo, you know, um, Um, you know, PlayStation, um, even the Nintendo 64, if you can basically get a board that’s powerful enough and has like enough memory and whatnot, you can program it. [00:36:30] Christina: And then what that will do is that means that you can play the ROMs or in some cases, like at the actual physical hardware, byte for byte, the exact same way as a regular system would. So you can basically like, it’s this board of, it has the right software on it, you can, you know, use the other stuff with it. [00:36:45] Christina: And it’s not emulation in the same way. It’s like, it’s hardware emulation, but like that. The software will play and we’ll output that the same way as other things did. And so there’s a company called analog, a N a L O G U E. Um, [00:37:00] and their sister company is eight bit dough, eight bit dough, which, um, makes like, um, uh, both a new and, um, uh, new controllers as well as like Bluetooth, um, uh, accessories to connect more modern controllers to. [00:37:13] Christina: Older consoles, but, um, and vice versa, but, um, they basically have like a, a professional, uh, like, I guess, closed source version to a certain extent of Mr. FPGA, which is a project. Sorry to go back. So Mr. FPGA is an open source project basically designed to like figure out, okay, you can build your own FP with your. [00:37:32] Christina: The proper FPGA board you can build and the right software you can build your own like mini console system that can play, you know, ROMs back the best way possible and you can output it both to analog or digital depending on what, you know, For as you get in, what set up you do. Um, and it’s pretty cool. [00:37:47] Christina: Analog makes like a more professional version of this usually aimed at like. One specific console and with analog is actually designed to work with the original hardware. So if you have like the, the, um, analog super [00:38:00] Nintendo, um, uh, system, then like you can use the real cartridges the same with their [00:38:05] Brett: Oh, wow. [00:38:05] Christina: one. [00:38:06] Christina: Um, and I have there. I have their Super Nintendo and I have the Nintendo 64, um, pre ordered and they came out with the Analog Pocket, um, a few years ago, which will play back Game Boy and Game Boy Color games. Um, and I think Game Boy Advanced as well. Um, and, uh, so, um, but, um, there’s this other company, but the Mr. [00:38:27] Christina: FPGA program is really, really cool. Uh, but the problem is, is that the boards to, um, build those systems have become really expensive in the last few years. And so, like, it used to be a couple hundred dollars to be able to, to get in on one of these systems. And now you could spend like 400. And like, at that point, most people are going to be like you. [00:38:46] Christina: They’re just going to buy, like, the regular emulated box. You know, that you can get that has a bunch of ROMs, right? Because they don’t fucking care enough about like the, the bite for bite stuff, but it is still really cool for people who like to tinker, right? You want that. And so there is this [00:39:00] guy, um, it goes by tacky Udon, um, on social media. [00:39:03] Christina: And, um, he started a company called retro remake and he was basically able, he created a project called Mr. Pie. We’ll have all of this in the show notes. Um, and it is not a raspberry pie, even though like the name, he’s taken it from that, but he has taken kind of a raspberry pie approach where, um, and, and, and unfortunately his boards are not in stock very often. [00:39:23] Christina: Um, and they kind of go in waves, but he has like a, um, you know, sold, um, last year, like he was able to get like. Um, a Mr. FPGA completely compatible board with some improvements even in my opinion, about how the design was done, where you could get a completely completed system for like 180 bucks. So I did like, you’d have to bring your own ROMs, but it would be assembled and it would have with the analog and the, um, you know, uh, digital output and, you know, there like other things involved, really cool stuff. [00:39:51] Christina: Um, he started a project, um, uh, that, that he launched, I guess, like. End of January or in February called the [00:40:00] superstation one and I’m going to send you this link in our chat, right? Now, um, so that you can see it. And this is really, um, cool. Um, it is, um, like he’s calling it. He’s basically, this is his take on, um, the, the analog consoles. [00:40:21] Christina: So he’s calling it the retro, um, uh, the superstation one, and, and he’s calling it the world’s first affordable FPGA gaming console, a recreation of the best console, the nineties open source from day one. So all this is very different from the, um. Existing things. So he’s made it look like a PlayStation. [00:40:36] Christina: Um, specifically PS one and actually the redesigned PS one, but it will work with any of the other systems and cores and then he’s also going to have a doc that he’ll have available, um, that will play CDs. So you could even use like. You know, like your old like discs or burned or roms or whatever. But, um, [00:40:58] Brett: bucks. That’s nuts. [00:40:59] Christina: yeah, [00:41:00] this guy is incredible. [00:41:01] Christina: The stuff that he’s been able to put out. And like, I have to say, I got my, my Mr. Pie, um, last year and, uh, it was great. Um, like I bought it kind of on a whim and I was just like, like. Anyway, he he’s like one of the few reasons kind of like worth using Twitter because like he’s he’s active on Twitter and stuff. [00:41:18] Christina: But like, um, yeah, um, so this could be a rabbit hole for you. I think you’re going to love the system you get and I want to hear a review on it. But, um, if you find yourself liking it and want something like. Maybe it goes to the next level, like maybe, maybe consider getting one of the, like the, the, um, retro station, the superstation one rather. [00:41:37] Brett: Yeah. That looks super cool. Really slick. Nice. All right. Well, that was a. A diversion from anything we had planned to talk about. All right. Gratitude and App Recommendations [00:41:47] Brett: So, uh, let’s do a gratitude. Um, do you want to kick off, [00:41:53] Christina: Yes. So, um, this one, and I don’t think we’ve mentioned it before. Um, I actually bought it when it first came out, but now it is [00:42:00] available on set apps. So Sandra Sorjas, who we’ve talked about before, because he’s just like, uh, epically like prolific with his GitHub profile and releasing, um, open source apps and free apps. [00:42:10] Christina: And he makes a lot of like Mac apps too. He has two things that are, that he’s released recently that are cool. Um, the first is one called shortcutty, which is a Mac app that is basically like a, uh, a shortcuts app for, for, for Mac. So like you can do a, um, it’s, it’s similar to actions, which is his iOS app for, for, um, iPad and iPhone that will like give you more functionality for the shorts cause app. [00:42:33] Christina: Um, and, uh, but, but, but shorty, uh, or short cutty rather short cutie, uh, I guess it’s probably the way it would be announced, which is cute. Um, it’s like 8, um, uh, to get it from, from Gumroad. It’s not in the app store, um, but it’s a, it’s a Mac app and it’ll like basically include pre done actions where you can like, you know, um, get selected text or clear notifications or, you know, um, open, um, uh, uh, an app. [00:42:58] Christina: You know, um, [00:43:00] in something else where you can like pass across like a URL or, or create a new instance or whatever, you know, you can hide all windows, quit all apps. Like a lot of these things you’ve been able to, you can do in other utilities, but this is all just with shortcuts, which is pretty cool. So, but, but short cutie is not the one I’m talking about. [00:43:15] Christina: The one we’re gonna talk about is a supercharge, which is also a Mac app. It is also paid. I bought it. Um, Uh, I guess when it came out, but it is now available on set up and it’s a menu bar app that will basically just, uh, be able to do quick actions to just do a ton of different things. Some of them are similar to some of the things in short cutie, but a lot of them are, um, you know, like, you know, you can like show the markup tools by default, you know, in your screenshot preview, you know, you can, um, uh, you know, Copy, you know, the, the message link, you know, from, from within mail, you know, um, toggling, you know, night shift or, or true tone mode, toggling the low power mode, um, stuff like that. [00:43:55] Christina: And [00:43:55] Brett: close and minimize, close and minimize and hide and quit apps [00:44:00] directly from mission control? Which is, you know, for someone who’s just getting into spaces more, [00:44:05] Christina: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, uh, this is a pretty great app. Um, and, uh, it came out, I think last fall. Um, but, uh, as of, uh, end of January, I think it’s now part of set up. So, um, uh, uh, supercharge. Um, it’s a, it’s, I, like I said, like I’ve been, um, uh, I bought it, uh, when it came out. Um, and, um, I’ve been like, yeah. [00:44:30] Christina: Really, uh, I’ve been really happy with it. I, but also I just think that Sindris work is really, really good. So, that is, uh, that is my craftitude. [00:44:38] Brett: that’s awesome. I, um, I linked this app, uh, in a web excursions a while back, uh, before set up, I think, uh, before it was on set up. I mean, not before set up itself, but, um, At the time when I looked at it. It, it was very impressive in its scope, but pretty much everything it did. I already had like my own [00:45:00] hacky ways of doing, um, and I didn’t see a need to replace all of them, but it looks to me like it has expanded since then, and I’m seeing a lot of features on here that I could actually make good use of. [00:45:13] Brett: So nice pick. Thanks for, thanks for bringing it back up for me. [00:45:17] Christina: Yeah, no problem. No problem. [00:45:19] Brett: Since you kind of did too, I’m going to kind of do too, too. Um, so I, quick mention, there’s this app called kind of him. Have you seen kind of him? [00:45:31] Christina: No, I haven’t. [00:45:33] Brett: It’s, it’s a little utility that can bring VIM keyboard shortcuts to any app on your computer. Um, so. [00:45:43] Brett: For me, I trick, you can trigger it multiple ways. I have it. So I hit J and K at the same time and it, my screen dims, except for the foreground window, and then all of your VIM movement keys work. And so like in finder, if I want to, if I’m at the bottom [00:46:00] of a list of files and I want to jump to the top, like there’s no keyboard shortcut and finders to do that, but if I hit JK and then hit GG. [00:46:10] Brett: Which is top of page for Vim, it jumps to the first selection in the list. And then I can use J and K to go up and down and then to exit Vim mode. I just hit I or A and, and in like a text editor, if like in text edit, for example, I can hit JK. Navigate around when I hit a, it will append or I will insert, um, just like it would in them, but in text edit and it’s very cool. [00:46:40] Brett: It’s like, I think two or three bucks a month to subscribe to it. Readwise and Productivity Tools [00:46:45] Brett: And I, and I love it, but my actual pit for today is read wise, um, which is a service that it’s 10 bucks a month, I think. And. Um, it’s basically [00:47:00] you load in like RSS feeds, you forward emails to it, [00:47:06] Christina: It’s a read it later app, but for everything, like, like, like it’s your, it’s like Instapaper and Pocket and RSS and like your [00:47:14] Brett: and EPUB reader and, [00:47:16] Christina: like, like, it’s like, it’s like, it’s everything. It’s really [00:47:19] Brett: and you can, while you’re browsing the web, you can have the ReadWise extension. So on any web page you’re looking at, you can turn on the extension and then use. Your cursor to highlight passages in the web page and then view that page and it’s highlights in read wise. Um, well, their app is called reader. [00:47:40] Brett: It’s the read wise reader, but that’s the read wise service. And then readers, the interface for the service and, um, 10 a month seems steep to me at first, cause I was also just getting into Devon think and was kind of trying to use it as my read it later app. Um, but read wise, the, [00:48:00] the reading tools and read wise are just so handy. [00:48:04] Brett: And I find that. Uh, highlighting passages helps me retain it. And then it has built in reviews for your, your highlights. So at the end of a day, it can send you like your top five or 10 highlights and you can review them and then you can even turn them into flashcards that’ll come up. At intermittent periods, um, to like, if there’s a piece of information that you really want to retain, you can turn it into a flashcard that’s either fill in the blank or Q and a, and I’ve just started using this feature and it’s really helping me like when I read something and I’m like. [00:48:40] Brett: It would be really good to remember that next time I’m in a debate on this topic, I’ll like turn it into a flashcard and like start building up actual knowledge for myself, which is hard as an ADHD person to retain all of that information. I know Christina, you’re fantastic at it. I am not. Um, so this is [00:49:00] really helping me [00:49:00] Christina: No, well, it helped. Well, look, the thing is I have to like work at it. Like it helps me to like, like I’ve been doing Duolingos for the last 114 days. And, uh, and I haven’t missed yet. I’ve been, I haven’t had to like, you know, use their, their, their thing where they’re, yeah, I haven’t, yeah, I haven’t had to use like a repair thing. [00:49:17] Christina: Um, but, um, I did have to like use, uh, gyms or whatever, because I got kicked out of the diamond league. Cause I didn’t like actually use it enough to get enough points one week. And I was like, I don’t want to lose my status. Um, but, but no, but like, but like, but trying to learn French has kind of taught me, like, Yeah, I’m really good at retaining information, but trying to go through your language, especially, it’s like one of those things I’m like, no, you need repetition, you need like to be reminded, and like, that’s really great, like when you can have that can be like, okay, this can become like, you know, Anki, like, like flashcards or whatever to like, get that kind of wrote kind of stuff. [00:49:52] Christina: Yeah. [00:49:53] Brett: And for anyone who goes down a similar path to mine, where they’re into Dev and Think, [00:50:00] but also love ReadWise, um, I do have a script, you can find it on my blog, that will import every day your ReadWise highlights, and it’ll download the Markdown version of the article you highlighted. It’ll highlight Your highlights in the markdown file in Dev and think, and append all of the links to your highlights, your notes, and your tags in the annotations on the file. [00:50:25] Brett: So I get the best of both worlds and I can search and, and collect all of my. Uh, important articles in Dev and think, but without having to think about it, I just use read wise. I highlight my text, I tag, I add notes, and then it just shows up in Dev and think for me. So that’s not my pick, but read wise is my pick. [00:50:47] Christina: Yeah, no, Readwise is awesome. I’ve been using it since it was like in beta, beta the first time. So I think I’m, I’m, I’m like on legacy pricing, which is not that much cheaper. I think it was like the equivalent of 8 a month instead of 10. Um, but I’m charged annually, so it is what it is. [00:51:00] But, um, I, I, I, I agree with you. [00:51:02] Christina: Like I, when I first heard about the idea, I think I, I think it was in Mac stories. I think Mac stories wrote about it, um, early on, uh, about reader. I think Readwise was out first, but they’d wrote about like the, the reader. Option or like the thing that was going to be created. I was like, okay, this actually sounds like everything I’ve wanted from like an all in one kind of reading service. [00:51:24] Christina: Because my problem has always been like, I, um, you know, I used like Instapaper for years. I might even still pay for it. I, God, I really need to use rocket money or whatever to go through all of my recurring subscriptions on stuff. But, um, I, you know, I would have to have like multiple. Tools to try to do everything like a pin board and I have you know Instapaper and I have my ebook thing and I have all this other stuff and I’m like, you know And you have RSS I’m like, can I just have it like Everywhere, right? [00:51:53] Christina: Like one, like one thing, which, yeah, [00:51:57] Brett: Yep. I have all my, all my RSS feeds are in [00:52:00] their, uh, news. Email newsletters that I, that I actually want to keep track of. I redirect, uh, I have Mailmate redirect them to my Readwise email account. I dump EPUBs in there that I want to easily mark up and, and memorize. Um, pretty much only like nonfiction stuff. [00:52:23] Brett: I’m not like reading. Fiction books in and read wise, but for like the book on Devon think, uh, from take control books. I put into read wise and use that to highlight. Cause I want to do a talk on Devon. Think it max suck this year. So like stuff that I wanted to like, make sure I remembered about Devon. [00:52:44] Brett: Think as I read it, I highlighted it and now they flashcards for me. So I’m memorizing Devon. Think via read wise. It’s fun. I like it. All right. Well, uh, it was good to see you. [00:53:00] It’s, I don’t remember how long it’s been, but [00:53:02] Christina: been like a month. [00:53:03] Brett: a month, a month. [00:53:04] Christina: it’s been like six weeks. Oh my god. It’s been six weeks because it was, yeah. Or, or, five weeks. Anyway, regardless, it’s been a while. Closing Remarks and Sponsor Shoutouts [00:53:13] Brett: uh, um, barring major catastrophe, we will be on for. Weeks in a row. Now we have sponsors rolling back in for this quarter. Um, and we will be financially obligated to keep the show going. Um, so thanks to all of our listeners for your support, go click on sponsors, buy stuff. It makes us look good. Um, [00:53:38] Christina: Uh, click around. Uh, yeah. Uh, please. No, [00:53:42] Brett: but seriously, incognito is awesome. Like [00:53:44] Christina: is awesome. I was gonna say, I, [00:53:46] Brett: from incognito, like 137 new services contacted. And [00:53:50] Christina: well no, I, I, I, I, I’ll disclose even though like Brett did like the ad read, like they did give me like a, a, a, I guess, you know, account to like try it out with. And I, and I’ve [00:54:00] usually pretty good at being able to find some of this stuff and like send out things to have things removed. Like I’d actually have mine pretty locked down. [00:54:07] Christina: Um, at least through the major, major data brokers. However, like this got found things that I definitely didn’t want out there. Like phone numbers, like my phone number is my main thing. Like emails, unfortunately, I can’t do anything about that. Right. Address. I don’t love, but like, it is what it is, but like my phone number, I really don’t want that. [00:54:23] Christina: Out there and, um, and yeah, I found a bunch of things and I was like, okay, this is really useful. And I, having gone through personally, like how much time to try to scrub things from systems before. Like, and the thing is you can get it from one, you know, at one point and then it might show up again, like a year later. [00:54:41] Christina: So it’s [00:54:42] Brett: well, and [00:54:43] Christina: to do it for you. [00:54:45] Brett: we’re not getting paid for this part, but I will say that since I started using it, my volume of spam phone calls has gone to zero. Like I get some stuff from like Amazon business, uh, trying to sell [00:55:00] me on like seller accounts and stuff that I just have to, you know, block, uh, because Amazon has my data and they’re not letting go of it. [00:55:09] Brett: But, um, but like random spam calls, I just, I don’t get it all anymore. And it’s very nice. All right. Well, good talking to you. [00:55:19] Christina: Good talking to you too, Brett. Um, hope we can continue feeling better and, uh, get some sleep. [00:55:23] Brett: Get some sleep.

In a hilariously overtired episode, the trio – Brett Terpstra, Christina Warren, and freshly 50 Jeff Severns Guntzel – shares personal updates and tech tidbits. Jeff reflects on turning 50 and throws an TV-themed party filled with nostalgia and sentimentality. Christina bids farewell to GitHub, navigating the emotions of her final day on MLK Day 2025. Brett, struggling with health issues, excitedly delves into the intricacies of DevonThink and shares his disdain for buses. Together, they discuss old tech software, film reviews, and geek out on imaginary Linux sponsorships. It’s heartfelt, chaotic, and genuinely overtired. Sponsor 1Password Extended Access Management solves the problems traditional IAM and MDM can’t. It’s security for the way we work today, and it’s now generally available to companies with Okta and Microsoft Entra, and in beta for Google Workspace customers. Check it out at 1password.com/overtired. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Birthday Celebrations 00:28 Reflections on Turning 50 02:30 Inauguration Day and Mental Health 06:22 Christina’s Career Transition 13:07 Jeff’s Birthday Party Recap 20:48 Brett’s Health Diagnoses 33:51 Travel Woes and Train Troubles 36:29 The Romanticism of Train Rides 37:11 Amtrak’s Writing Fellowship 38:17 Brett’s Media Corner 45:03 Sponsor Break: 1Password 47:41 Nostalgic Tech Talk 50:03 grAPPtitude 01:02:39 Get Some Sleep Show Links Self Reliance A.P. Bio High Potential DEVONthink Marky the Markdownifier Sentinel Lotus 1–2–3 Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Always Sunny Girl Introduction and Birthday Celebrations Brett: [00:00:00] Hey, it’s, it’s overtired. I’m so tired. Oh my God. Um, we all, all three of your favorite hosts are here today. We’ve got me, Brett Terpshire. We’ve got Christina Warren. Hey, Christina. And we have Jeff Severns Gunsell, who is. Fresh off of a birthday celebration. How’s it Christina: Happy birthday, Jeff. Jeff: Thank you. Thank you. Reflections on Turning 50 Jeff: 50, 50, 50. The last day of the rest of my life. Christina: You know, 50 is the new 40 is what they’re saying. So like, Jeff: Yeah. I, Christina: the start. Jeff: it’s a weird number. I don’t, it’s a weird one. I was like saying to somebody, maybe I wrote this, that like, I feel like I, turning 20, turning 30 felt like skin in my teeth, like I barely made it, and, uh, 40 felt like inevitable and kind of, uh, disappointing, and, uh, and 50 feels [00:01:00] good, weirdly, just feels good, feels like, yeah, I made it, it feels like I made it, like, uh, it feels like a, not a finish line, but like, alright, cool, I made it this far, everything else is bonus. Brett: I’ll turn 50 last year. I uh last year I started dating a 50 year old woman, which is weird because Or a 50 year old person. Sorry Um, which is weird because I still think of myself as like 25 Jeff: Did you just say last year you’ll turn 50? Brett: last year last august. Yeah 50. Jeff: My God, start over. I’m so tired. I, and I know you, you’ve been up beginning sleep. I got sleep and still I’m just hung over from not, I didn’t even drink at my party, but it was, we had it at a venue and, uh, and, and it was so much work getting ready, bringing everything over there. It wasn’t even that much stuff, but like, it was enough. It was like a mini van load [00:02:00] and then like, get it. We had an hour for setup and then we did the party and then we had to break it down and. For some reason, maybe it’s cause I’m 50. That was exhausting. And I felt hung over the next morning despite not drinking at all. Christina: No, I think that that’s fair. I think that’s fair. I think that that’s one of those things where it’s like, um, you’re totally like allowed to be, um, what was it going to say? Like tired and, and all that other stuff. Like, it’s just, just one of those things. Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. And also it’s a tiring day. Inauguration Day and Mental Health Jeff: We don’t have to get into it, but it is inauguration day. Um, and we can. Probably Christina: Yeah. And, and that, and, and that’s basically all we have to say about that. Jeff: no, but it is, I do think it’s, it’s lending to a sense of, um, of malaise. Christina: Oh, for, for sure. For sure. No, I, cause it was one of those things. So like, um, uh, I’ll get into it with, with, when we talk about mental health corner, but like, I’ve got like some stuff going on myself and, um, I, um, you know, it’s a, it’s technically like a [00:03:00] public holiday today because it is, um, Uh, Martin Luther King Day and so it was just like one of those like things where I’m just like, okay, Brett: the, is the inauguration always on Martin Luther King Day? Jeff: No, Brett: Okay, that’s just such a fucked up coincidence then that we’re, Christina: I mean, I’m sure it’s happened Brett: inaugurating a racist on MLK Day. Jeff: we’ve inaugurated our fair share Christina: say, I was going to Brett: on MLK Day? Come Christina: Oh, I’m, I’m sure that that has also happened before. I Jeff: On my birthday. Christina: and yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, no, I mean, the irony is, is. Is right there. And then of course it’s happening like a week after two weeks after Jimmy Carter’s funeral and they had to have it indoors because of the, the cold or whatever. And so like I made a comment that got way more viral than I expected it to be because the joke was in the comment, but I was like, you know, it’s kind of fitting that this is taking [00:04:00] place, you know, indoors because it feels really claustrophobic and like a funeral. And then everybody responds is, well, it is a funeral for democracy. And I’m like, yes, that was the joke. Literally. Literally. That was the Jeff: uh, I find, I find discussing it, for the most part, I’m not referring to this. I find if I am in a small group and somebody brings up the moment, I find it deeply unsatisfying to engage because it’s just like. I don’t know, I can’t even put my, my finger on it exactly, but it’s like somebody says something intensely obvious, and then everyone else shakes their head and we do need to vent and we do need to like, have some sense of sort of solidarity and community but there’s something about this moment that that’s not quite what it is, it’s like we’re all just Prepared, including myself to just like blurt out the, the last terrible thing we heard or thought about. And it’s, it’s very exhausting right now. I was like, when you need that, when you need me for the resistance, call me. [00:05:00] Uh, but I don’t want to talk about it. Just assume I’m in. Christina: Right. Right. No, but this was, this was just like a one off, like a knock on innocuous post that Jeff: Well, you know, Christina, it is a funeral. Christina: and I’m like, right, that was what I put in the post anyway. It has like 425 reposts and like 7, 200 likes and 401 responses. And all the responses are the same. That’s what I’m saying. Like this, this, this got, this was like blue sky viral. I was like, okay guys, I’m like muting thread because I don’t. This is too much. Um, also it’s like, again, yeah, that was the joke. Like, Brett: Well, Jeff: Well, in case you missed it, Christina, someone was there to help you see, Christina: I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m so glad that like people were able to like explain my joke to me. Like, I’m really, really Jeff: And if you need us today to explain anything to you that comes from you, we’ll do that. Because you got, you got two men here. We’re ready. Brett: just say it and we’ll jump in and we’ll tell [00:06:00] you Jeff: we’ll tell you what you’re saying, why it’s funny, why it’s wrong. If it’s wrong. I mean, we’re here Brett: We got you, we got you. Christina: repeat what I said back to me. Oh, Brett: we’ll just Jeff: Yeah. Just repeat. Christina: what you mean is this. I love Brett: so I do want to talk about why I missed Jeff’s birthday party. But first, uh, well, let’s do a mental health corner. Christina, you alluded to some stuff going on. You want to start? Christina: Yeah. Christina’s Career Transition Christina: So, um, as we were recording this on, on Martin Luther King Day, um, on a January 20th, 2025, God, 2025, that sounds so weird to say, uh, this is my last day at GitHub. Um, and, uh, so after almost three years there and, uh, seven and a half, um, little more than that, um, within the Microsoft family, I, I’m done. Um, I’m not going to announce where I’m going, um, for my next job. I’ve got, um, two weeks off. Um, but, uh, that news will be coming up. But that has been the thing that has kind of defined my mental health for the last couple of weeks is trying to kind of figure out [00:07:00] like, am I going to take this new job, this opportunity that I’m excited about? Um, but with that excitement comes like the sadness of leaving a team and a company that has been fantastic to me and people that I just adore working with and, and people that I couldn’t be more proud to, or honored to have had the opportunity to be with. Um, you know, I was a GitHub fan long before I ever joined. Um, uh, tech and, and I will remain one, you know, until the end. And so that’s been, that’s been it. Cause this is, you know, putting in all the time here. Like if you count the Microsoft and GitHub time together, this is the longest job I’ve ever had. And, uh, and so obviously there were like a lot of emotions around that. So that’s, that’s, that’s my mental health corner basically. Brett: Yeah. That’s, uh, that’s, that’s a, that is a long time in tech, um, to stick, to stick, even, even if you switch from Microsoft to get hub and still stayed in the Microsoft kind of umbrella, [00:08:00] that’s seven, seven years. That’s crazy. Christina: Close to eight. Yeah. It’s seven, a little more than seven and a half. Yeah. Brett: I did, I did the indie thing for that long, but I’ve never held a tech job for that long. Jeff: So are you, what, like what combination, uh, sad, uh, excited, um, whatever grieving, like what is the, what is the stew right now? Christina: I think that I’m now mostly, I think I’m at peace, right? So like last week was like the week that I had to kind of like make the You know, it was kind of, you know, telling people and kind of, you know, um, you know, just all that stuff and like there was a lot going in with that and we also had an offsite last week. So my whole team was together in person, which was awesome, but was also makes it that much harder, right? Because you know, you’re talking about the things to me doing, you know, in the next little bit and talking about, you know, processes and whatnot and then seeing people and then knowing You’re going to be saying goodbye. And so, um, I think peace is where I’m at now. So I went [00:09:00] through the grieving stuff and I went through kind of the sadness and I definitely cried a lot last week. And then I went and did karaoke with my teammates and, and we had, um, the final day of the offsite, which was actually, this was a great concept and shout out to, to Ashley for, she’ll never listen to this, but, but shout out anyway. Um, Ashley Billis for, um, putting the whole thing together because what she did for the final day, and I thought it was really smart and if I ever have opportunity to do something like this, I would steal it was, we had like the first two days were traditional kind of offsite stuff. And then the third day, it was all just like board games. Cause some people were flying out. Some people already flew out Thursday night, but some people were still there. People who were still around, we had like, we played like board games and like had movies and snacks and just like hung out. And it wasn’t, you know, it was just kind of like, um, like, like, like, uh, a rain day at school and, Brett: not a big party, but like actually a more kind of quiet, intimate thing. Christina: and it was cool because, um, like playing some of the board games and stuff, like we played this one called, um, [00:10:00] Spyfall, I think is what it’s called. And, uh, it’s like this British card game. It’s really fun. And, um, they have, um, a, um, uh, there’s a sequel, apparently to like, uh, um, uh, an online version would. Would fuck would be really fun. But like, we played like games like that. And, um, uh, I can’t remember what the other one was called, but there was one where like, you’re either like spies or you’re, you know, like on the good team and you have to like, try to figure out like. If you can, you know, keep the mission or not. And, and it was, um, I don’t know, games like that. I feel like you get to know people better and there are also some really like fun opportunities from a bonding perspective, you know, getting to see how people work and whatnot that can actually be really good for, for team building, but also for figuring out like, okay, well. How can we think strategically or like how, you know, I don’t know. I feel like there are like non interpersonal corollaries where like doing these interpersonal types of games can pay off. Anyway, I thought it was great and it was just really nice to be chill. It was just kind of like, you know, like I said, kind of like a snow day sort of thing, even though it [00:11:00] wasn’t snowing. And that was, that was a really nice way to be able to say goodbye to folks. And, and I really appreciated. That so, so I think I’m, I’m, I’m at peace. Yeah. It’s been, it’s been sad at goodbyes and, and, and endings, even when like they’re for the right reasons. And even when you do it, like out of no sense of malice or anything other than it just being like, I had an opportunity that I, that I, you know, that is the best thing for my career. And that’s all it is. It’s nothing not indicative of, of, you know, how happy I am with the company that I work at or what they’re doing or anything like that, like. It’s, it’s literally just about, you know, what’s, what’s best for me right now. Um, and, um, so, so I, I’m feeling okay, you know, but like, it is also one of those, like I went through all those grieving process steps, you know, the sadness and the fear and the excitement and all that other stuff. And so, um, but I think the good part of that is I feel like I went through all of that and now like we’re here and I’m like, okay. Now I can just be, you know, I have two weeks off. [00:12:00] Um, I’ve never had two weeks between jobs before. Jeff: That’s awesome. Christina: Yeah. Like when I moved across the country, I like, my final day at work was like on a Friday. And then like, the movers came or something I think like on Tuesday. And then I think we flew out on Thursday. Or Friday, um, to, to go to Seattle. And then I started work on Monday. So I, I had, I had a week off. That is insane, right? So I had a week off, but the week off was spent like literally moving across the country. So, so I’ve never had two weeks between jobs in my life. So I’m, I’m a little bit unsure what to do. Brett: are you not moving for your new one? Christina: I’m not. I’m at least not right now. Um, uh, you know, so, so, so, so staying put, so I don’t know. I’m, there’s like a part of me. I’m like trying to find these things like last minute is, is hard, but I’m like, I’m kind of like, and I’m, I would love to, you know, take someone else with me if I could, but it’s way too last minute for that. But I’m like, can I go on a cruise? So I’m [00:13:00] trying to see if I can get on a cruise next week or Jeff: Oh, nice. Christina: Yeah. Jeff: Nice. Brett: All right. Jeff’s Birthday Party Recap Brett: Well, Jeff, how are you? Jeff: I am doing good. Yeah. Doing good. I, it was, it was nice to have a birthday and have a birthday feel good. That’s nice to have a party. It’s nice to see a lot of people. I haven’t had a party since I was 33. Um, and, uh, that was a kickball game. It was really fun. Um, Brett: Wait, what? Oh, not, not, not today Jeff: no. Cause here’s the thing when I had a kickball game when I was 33, someone broke a rib, someone else broke a finger. And I was like, all right, when I’d be getting too old to be doing this stuff for birthdays. Um, so I kept it real, real simple. Brett: Tell us about the party though. I like, I got the invite. It said it was a like TV party and I didn’t know if it was a black flag thing or what was happening. Jeff: No, I okay. I’m going to tell you what it was. And then I’m going to tell you, [00:14:00] uh, my reflections on the difference between sentimentality and nostalgia. Brett: Okay. Jeff: basically what I, I’ve had this idea forever. Like the original idea, like a couple of years ago, it was like to do, to do three straight nights in my, in my living room on the TV with different guests every night of watching some primetime show from my youth. Um, and, uh, so I had this idea of like one night it’s like grizzly Adams. He served like meatloaf next night. It’s like Barney Miller and you serve TV dinners and like that kind of thing. And I really liked that. Um, but what I, what it finally became was like, we rented a space, really lovely kind of open space near our house. And, um, it was like a. It’s where they do music lessons and stuff, but it’s a big open room. And so they have all these sound baffles and they have a PA and I rented like a screen and a projector. And then I, I cracked in into Adobe premiere and I edited together like 40 minutes of essentially like simulated, uh, simulated, uh, 40 minutes of channel [00:15:00] surfing in roughly 1983. Um, and, uh, and so it was like, you land, you kind of hover over a couple of shows that you land on for like an act. And then there’s commercials in between. So I had, um, the pornographic bakery episode of Barney Miller. Um, which for anyone that doesn’t know was an, a cop show that lasted like eight seasons that was only ever in one room. Yeah. It was amazing. It just happened in one room in their filthy headquarters in what seemed like a basement. Really strong cast. Then I landed on, um, we hovered on Laverne and Shirley for a minute, um, episode where they’re training for a wrestling exhibition. Um, and then just a quick scene from WKRP in Cincinnati, uh, Johnny Fever and Venus Flytrap, uh, featuring in this particular one. Um, and then ended on like the final act of an A team where like the oxy acetylene torch comes out and Mr. T is wrapping dynamite and, and they’re getting ready to make, they’re making their villain trap. Um, and then, but the really fun thing was, um, [00:16:00] I went looking for commercials to put in between and, um, and I found some amazing commercials that there was, there was a fair amount of like really great early computing commercials and the way that I found the ones that were kind of the, my favorite was like, people have posted like all these YouTube videos where it’s like two hours of, of VHS, like SP recording of television, 1983, 1982. I mean, I don’t know if it would have been. It had to be VHS, but anyway, um, and so you can just scrub through it and pull commercials. There was an amazing commercial, uh, that was just a montage of people. Someone pops up and they’re like, they’re like CRT monitors behind them. And he’s like, I bought a computer, but then I found out. I don’t like computing. And it’s just like back and forth between people who go, I love computing and I don’t like it. I hate computing. Um, and, uh, and then there was just like, it was like a great Commodore 64 ad that was like the, [00:17:00] the only computer you’re ever going to need. Um, and then like, there was a great, like Bell labs, like. Uh, phone commercial, uh, advertising, one of those phones that has like buttons along the side with names of your people and you just press it. It’s like, imagine making a phone call by just pressing their name and like, as obvious as that is, because obviously tech has changed. I managed to find this like grouping of commercials that were kind of fascinating to take in and realize like. It’s that thing where you’re like, Jesus Christ, like I remember when I was growing up, I was like, Grandma, you, you grew up when there wasn’t TV or like, Mom, you were there when it went color and like, we fucking, we’ve surpassed that. We’ve surpassed many of the horrors that like our parents experience, not our grandparents. They had World War II. Uh, and it’s just like one of those. Things that helps you kind of mark time. And it was just lovely to have to go through a bunch of Laverne and Shirley and Barney Miller episodes and what charming stuff that was. Um, okay. So the nostalgia versus sentimentality part, cause I was like, I don’t [00:18:00] like, um, theme. Birthday parties. I’m not against them. I just don’t like them. Um, and I don’t really like like era theme, uh, birthday parties. And so I was sort of doing that. Um, and, but it was just that, like, there was not really much else going on that was on sort of the theme of the eighties or something other than that. I come from the seventies and the eighties, by the way, because that’s when I really started remembering TV. Um, but like, I realized like nostalgia, like star Wars fandom and things like that, like always feels like this. This like longing to go back to a time and a place or to go back to a you to embody a moment that you were in. And I feel like sentimentality for me is like bringing the moment forward and just like enjoying the feeling of right now. And there’s like no longing in it. There’s no regret in it. There’s no desire to look back and that doing this with like that approach. Was really sweet and really fun and I didn’t get locked into, you know, like I was worried if I start going through old commercials, old TV shows, I’m just going to get [00:19:00] like, my stomach’s going to turn after some point. Cause I’m like, I just want to be back in the now. Um, but I just found it. It was also, it was almost like an academic. Pursuit to go looking at these things as history and super fun. So anyway, and people loved it. It was really like delightful to have people laughing at things that I thought were funny and that I, like I very specifically ordered the commercials and both in terms of like in a commercial break, but then over time, and like, there was the empire commercial, everyone know the empire song, five, eight, eight, two, 300. Christina: Empire! Yeah, Jeff: So I put one of those in, I put one of those in and as the, as they were singing that you could hear it rising up in the group of people until everyone hit empire as like a crescendo. Christina: just like, yes! Jeff: delightful. Yeah. And then just because I haven’t had a birthday in forever, I invited widely. And so it was also just delightful to see. It’s like a wedding or some easy people from different parts of your life that should not be in the room together. And, uh, and there they are in the room together and you could introduce people that [00:20:00] you always knew would kind of like, enjoy each other. And that was cool. Cause I don’t go out. I felt like when I saw all the people accepting the invite coming in, I was like, I think I need to just get up to a microphone and say, I owe you all a call. Like, that’s how it felt. Like, these are all the people I don’t really reach out to enough. Um, but I didn’t feel, uh, obligated to do that. So I just felt nice. It felt nice to celebrate like a moment and, uh, like allow a ritual or something. Cause I haven’t really allowed that at birthday time, including when I was 40. So it was great. Brett: Well, happy birthday. Jeff: Thanks. The most I’ve ever said about my birthday. Christina: I love it. Brett: right. Well, mine’s going to be a combination health, mental health, obviously. Christina: Yes. Brett’s Health Diagnoses Brett: So I got some diagnoses. Um, which I’m pretty excited about. Um, I got, um, hyper hyper mobile [00:21:00] spectrum disorder, which is, uh, kind of like, I didn’t have enough hyper mobility to have hyper mobile. Eh, Ehlers Danlos syndrome. Um, so it, I’m more on a spectrum, but that spectrum can include a lot of the symptoms that I do have. Um, also mass cell activation syndrome, um, which relates a lot to kind of the histamine reactions and burning skin that I have and Oh, what else? There was like a whole smorgasbord. Let’s see, thoracic outlet syndrome. Jeff: Woo! That one sounds awesome, Christina: Yeah, it does. Brett: um, that leads to a lot of like numbness in my face and stuff like that. Um, geez, I’m, I’m totally, the reason I’m blanking is because I’m working really hard to stay conscious right now. Um, I am Jeff: Oh my god, it didn’t occur to me you could pass out while we’re Brett: I, I’m not, yeah, I’m [00:22:00] not usually this faint when I’m sitting. Um, I don’t know what’s going on right now. Um, I, I ran upstairs to get more water and salt and realize that was a really bad idea, like halfway through. Oh, POTS, POTS is the other one. Um, uh, postural orthostatic techie. Tachycardia syndrome. Um, which is what makes me, you know, pass out when I stand up. Um, it’s why I’m wearing a binder around my abdomen right now, because I have to squeeze blood into my head and I have to drink three liters of water with five grams of salt a day. And five grams is a lot of salt. If you’ve ever kept track of your salt intake, um, we found this stuff called, Element L M N T that has a thousand milligrams of salt per packet. So five of those mixed in [00:23:00] with four or five bottles of water. And I can stay hydrated. It’s not a matter of hydration that much water and salt increases your blood volume, uh, which makes it less work for your legs to pump. Your blood to your head when you stand up, I also had to raise my bed. I had to put cinder blocks under the front legs of my bed so that it’s at like, uh, maybe a 10 degree slope, uh, so that my blood pools in my legs while I’m sleeping. Uh, it’s all very confusing to me, but because I got diagnoses, I was able to start some of these treatments and we were able to. figure out exactly what I needed to do. And I started a couple new meds, um, made a couple of changes to existing meds. And, uh, I’m just, I’m really grateful. I found this EDS clinic because of our friend, Brian Guffey. they posted [00:24:00] it on a Facebook thread. Um, and I, I immediately checked it out and got into, uh, Minneapolis or St. Cloud based doctor. And we did a telehealth session. Um, and I had just gotten some vitals from, uh, Gunderson that morning that I was able to share. And thanks to her, I was able to get a diagnosis that I could then go back to my primary care physician with, and I also got referrals to a bunch of like. Uh, EDS aware physical therapy places. Um, and I had to, one of the meds I’m on had to come from a compounding pharmacy. Do you know what that is? Jeff: No. Brett: a pharmacy that can make drugs for you. Christina: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because a lot of people have them for the, the, um, uh, like the, um, Ogilvy and, and things like that. Like you can get them cheaper than, um, paying for like Ozempic over the counter. Like,[00:25:00] Brett: well, and there are, there are some drugs, like the drug that I’m on is used to, as it’s not Narcan, but it’s used to counteract opiate overdoses, um, naproxen, I think it’s Christina: Yes. Brett: um, but it’s not profitable enough that any drug company will actually make it. So the only way you can get this drug is through a compounding pharmacy. Um, so that’s, I don’t know, it’s kind of fun to like have them manufacture my drugs for Jeff: And are these from, I mean, are these for lack of any real terminology, like open source drugs that people are like, yeah, Brett: Kind of, yeah, basically, um, uh, patent, patent Jeff: patent free, DRM free. Brett: Yeah. Jeff: Um, interesting. So these diagnoses, are they things that typically are chained together or are they just Brett: Yeah. So all of these fit under the umbrella of dysautonomia, which is what I knew going into [00:26:00] it, I knew that my symptoms like had to be dysautonomia of some kind, um, and that encompasses or comprises, um, I think probably 13 different, uh, disorders and syndromes. And so like generally, if you have one, you probably are, there’s probably coma comorbidities with at least one other. Um, it’s really common to like EDS and POTS almost, I would say 90 percent of the time seem to go hand in hand, uh, based on people I’ve talked to. I know, I know one family where the daughter has EDS and the The sun has, uh, pots, but, but they don’t share the two. Um, anyway, it’s yeah. So like things are better than the last time we talked and in general, I’m functioning better today has been especially rough, partly because the insomnia [00:27:00] the night before I was up because I had like skin burning in the middle of the night and I couldn’t fall back asleep. I don’t know what got me up last night, but out of the last. I want to say month, there’s only been two days that I’ve slept more than five hours, um, which has me super run down. And like two nights ago, I slept for like nine hours and I had a pretty good day. Jeff: What’s your magic number for sleep? Like, Brett: magic number is nine. I do really well with 10. Jeff: yeah, Brett: Um, but I can never get 10. Um, and yeah, that doesn’t, 10 hours of sleep doesn’t generally work if you want to have like family time and a day job. Jeff: yeah. Brett: Um, and I also enjoy a little TV watching at night, Jeff: Yes. As, as we do in this day and age Brett: I’m having, I’m having pretty severe histamine reactions, which means I need to [00:28:00] go on a low histamine diet and there are Jeff: low histamine diet. Brett: So things like raspberries and tomatoes, legumes, like all of these foods are high histamine. Um, and I, I could not explain histamine to you at this point. Um, I’m still learning. Um, but like, If I, I tried raspberry sorbet last night and, um, after I had some kimchi rice, kimchi fermented foods in general are high histamine. Um, so I was, if I, I think I was having an extinction reaction to like knowing I was going to have to give up histamines. So I was like, eat all the histamines. And I got like, Multiple burning spots on my skin, like intense burning. And I went and took antihistamines and rubbed a bunch of aloe on myself and got through it. Okay. But yeah, like that’s part of the MCAS, the mast cell stuff. Um, [00:29:00] Yeah. Jeff: what, what, is this something that was dormant in you? Is it something? Okay. Yeah. Brett: Yeah. It’s very likely that I’ve had the mass. So since childhood, like I’ve had that burning skin feeling since at least middle school, maybe earlier. Um, and I just had always. I’ve made a bunch of assumptions. The first I assumed everyone felt like that. And then as I got older and I started getting into drugs and alcohol, I always associated that feeling with getting sober. So when I started to feel that I would go and do more drugs and it would help. And I thought. And I thought that feeling was just withdrawal and like, so I would go like two weeks without a drug thinking I was getting through the detox, but the feeling wouldn’t go away and it would just never go away. Um, and yeah, and I would eventually end up doing drugs again, but, um. Yeah, now I, now I know [00:30:00] that feeling is, uh, mast cell and I can do things. I, I can, I have interventions for it. I can’t drink anymore. The, uh, drinking makes the pots pretty crazy. Um, and so like, if I, right now I’m blacking out, just sitting down. If I had a beer. I, I would, I would be out, I would be unconscious and not from the alcohol, but from the effect of the alcohol on my blood flow. Um, yeah, so this is fun stuff. Um, making progress though, pretty excited, um, to actually be moving forward on this. Like, cause I had, like, I got depressed, um, just how my whole life kind of suddenly got turned upside down. Oh, in answer to your question, my, my psychiatrist. Kind of your unspoken question. My psychiatrist, um, Jeff: you can read my mind. I don’t like it. Brett: uh, said that she, she and her daughter, [00:31:00] both their symptoms really began shortly after their COVID booster. And none of us want to be like a conspiracy anti vaxxer thing about it. Like none of us are anti vaccine. Um, but her anecdotal evidence or her, and her story was that. Like it, it seemed to kick and she had heard from other people too, that the booster kicked off the symptoms. And I had the booster in October and my symptoms started in November. So just from an anecdotal standpoint, it is possible in my Jeff: I don’t think those wonderings make you an anti vaxxer or conspiracy minded. I mean, it’s always, this is the problem with the moment we are and we’re in is like, there’s always a possibility that there’s something about this vaccine that we couldn’t anticipate and that we made a sacrifice in order to kind of like deal with an emergency. Like I, I’m still, I remember like when we, when I got the vaccine first, my [00:32:00] attitude was like, give it to me like acupuncture, like you just put it all over me. I’ll take it. But I also knew in saying that, that like, Down the road. I don’t actually know what’s going to happen, and we’re probably just, you know, in that zone, the beginning of that zone where we start to see and wonder. Yeah. Brett: But I’m past the depression now. Um, I am, I am on to the, um, just dealing with it. Uh, just learning to exist with whatever’s going on now. Um, it’s already become kind of normal for me to feel like this. And it no longer feels like I’m suddenly disabled. I’m actually. You know, I’m working. I’m, I’m functioning. I clean the kitchen whenever I can. Um, but when I was getting ready to leave for Jeff’s birthday party, I was feeling well enough to, uh, clean all the litters, clean up, clean up the kitchen, put away all the stuff in the living room [00:33:00] around my little couch nest and leave the house so that Elle could enjoy. The night of not having me in the house and, and wouldn’t have to do a bunch of chores just to feel comfortable in the house. Um, I tried to, I tried to make that work. Um, and then I think that was, that was the second big bummer for me about missing the party was like, I always get excited to give Al the house because. Because they get the house so rarely. I am always home. Um, and it like, I got a hotel and I was going to like let them just for a night. Just it was one night and then I had to go home and then I ended up on the couch and then I had a really bad night, uh, to the extent that I was kind of glad that I didn’t go. But anyway, let’s talk about, so I was going to take a train. Travel Woes and Train Troubles Brett: I can’t drive right now, but I was going to take a train to go to Jeff’s birthday party and Um, I’m in Jeff: so sweet, Brett. [00:34:00] Which is so sweet. And say to the listeners, you’re about how far from us? Brett: It’s a two hour drive. It’s a two hour train ride. Um, and I was going to take a train, uh, which I was also kind of excited about. Jeff: Oh, it’s the best! It’s the best. Brett: for the business seat, business class seat. Um, which I, I’ve never even ridden coach on an Amtrak. I usually end up in a sleeper car or business class. And I’m from what I’ve seen, the coach seats are nice, like Christina: I think Jeff: really nice. Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, I think, I think they’re fine. I mean, I’ve, I’ve never been in a sleeper car, so I’ve only been on the Acela or I guess like probably coach. I mean, they’re fine. Brett: Yeah, yeah. And I was looking forward to it, but here in Minnesota, it was about, uh, negative 10 and, um, Amtrak canceled the two trains that were running after mine and [00:35:00] left a mine TBD on the app all the way up until departure time. And they never, they never put a departure time on it. So I showed up at the train station to see what was up. And, Jeff: this sounds like the beginning of a not terribly great train song. Keep going. I showed up at the train station. Sorry, I got Brett: just to see what was up. Um, and, and a young woman had just gotten off the phone with Amtrak and informed me that they were going to send a bus, the train was, the train was gone. They were going to send a bus. It was going to be like an hour, but they were going to get us all to the cities. And I just. Left because a I hate buses. I I bought a train ticket because I hate buses and Be like, I was already cutting it close to get to Jeff’s party. Um, [00:36:00] and waiting an hour for a bus that was going to take almost three hours to get there meant I was going to show up at a point in the evening where I was already going to be too tired to function. And it just wouldn’t have been fun. And just party was the only reason I was going. And if I was going to miss that, then there wasn’t a lot of points. So I’m currently trying to get. Some kind of refund or credit for my hotel and my train tickets, but I haven’t had luck yet. . The Romanticism of Train Rides Jeff: I would love to take a long train ride. I’ve contemplated the Chicago line that they now have, Twin Cities Brett: There was, they did a promo and Dave Chartier, who you guys may know, um, Jeff: Who? I don’t know who that is. Brett: He was a writer at Tua, moved on to Ars Technica. I don’t know what he’s doing these days. Um, he’s the reason I have my career. Um, he started writing, he started writing about Mood Blast. My first, my first app written mostly in Apple script. And he started writing about it. He [00:37:00] was writing about every release I put out and he was writing about it. And I, I started getting more and more readers and more and more followers. And pretty soon it led to like job offers. And, uh, so, so I credit him with. Amtrak’s Writing Fellowship Brett: Everything I am today, um, but he took part in Amtrak’s promotion where they were paying people to write. Uh, they would give them free, free train rides, cross country, and all you had to do was write about Amtrak now and then, but they wanted you to work on like a novel or your next big thing. Jeff: That’s Brett: they were just paying people to ride the train and write. Christina: Yeah. One of my colleagues, one of my colleagues got, uh, Chris Taylor, um, got that too. And, uh, he got like, they call it like a fellowship or something, I think like the Antrec fellowship. Yeah. Chris Taylor was part of that as well. And I was like, that sounds really cool. Um, I would hate it. Like I would hate it, but, but I think for, for many types of people, there was something very romantic about like that. Brett: Romantic is the word. [00:38:00] Nostalgic even. Um. Okay. So we’re going to skip talking about Metta and Zuck. And I don’t even want Christina: care. Jeff: No Brett: to talk about, I don’t want to talk about the, uh, the inauguration or about Metta. Jeff: Hey, I feel like if that’s what you want, there’s a lot of podcast options. Brett’s Media Corner Brett: I do want to tell you about the sunny and Philadelphia connection that came up for me this week. Um, so I, I, I watched all the way through, um, Abbott elementary. Uh, starring Glenn Howerton, who was Dennis on Sonny, um, that show is amazing. I’ve seen it through twice. I love it. Um, it’s, he’s a school teacher who refuses to teach AP bio. Oh no, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not Abbott elementary. I’m sorry. AP bio. We’re talking about AP bio. Um, I get the two mixed up, but, um, he, he’s, he’s a, he’s a school teacher who refuses to teach [00:39:00] AP bio tells all his students, they’ll get an a, as long as they don’t tell anyone he’s not teaching. Um, and he begins using them to, he’s, he’s very revenge focused. He always wants revenge on somebody. And he focuses this advanced student group on helping him come up with revenge plots. Um, And occasionally to help him come up with like the perfect date or whatever. And he, it’s this bunch of really creative, really smart kids and they help him. Oh, it’s, it’s so good. So, um, so I’ve watched that and then I started watching, um, High Potential, which stars Caitlin Olsen, who was the sister on Sonny in Philadelphia and. Um, that show, I haven’t watched it all the way through. Uh, it’s, it’s new and I’m really enjoying it. She is a, uh, cleaning lady with a very high IQ that so high that it, they call it high [00:40:00] potential intellect and. So high that she has trouble holding onto jobs because her mind is just always like churning and noticing. And, um, she’s so smart. She, she ends up being a cleaning lady and working low end jobs. And, uh, she starts accidentally solving crimes for the police department. Um, Jeff: This is good. Brett: can’t, she can’t not fix something. There’s like an OCD aspect to it, which she sees a mistake. So at night she’s cleaning and she’s crossing stuff out on the murder board. And be like, no, this is the victim. And, and they like, they’re mad at her, but then she proves she’s right. And she solves cases and they bring her on as like a full time consultant. Um, and she dresses just like a trailer trash, uh, porn star. Um, like big, like zebra striped jackets with really like the, the pom pom pink cuffs and everything and the mini skirts. And it’s just, it’s amazing. Um, [00:41:00] and then, uh, I saw, uh, a movie called self reliance and it stars, uh, Charlie day. Wait, no, I’m kidding. I’m so faint right now. It wasn’t self reliance. Wasn’t Charlie Kelly. Was it? Jeff: If you pass out, it’s going to take me like three hours to get to you. You know that, right? Brett: Yeah, I know cuz it’s only there’s only buses. Yeah. No, it’s um, it’s it’s not Charlie What did I watch with Charlie day? Jeff: What do I look like, your roommate? Brett: Oh my Christina: I’m literally looking up his IMDb right now while I try to see, um, see, uh, Jeff: Christina, way to be useful. All I made was a smart ass Kamak. Brett: fools pair. Yeah. Yeah, that’s fools paradise That’s the one that movie was okay. Was it a movie or was it Christina: that’s a movie. Yeah, that’s a Brett: Yeah, that Jeff: I even here right now? Brett: The one, the movie I actually wanted to talk about, and now I’ve lost the whole, uh, Sonny in [00:42:00] and Sonny and Philadelphia connection. It’s actually a new girl connection, which kind of, I mean, for me, they kind of connect cause they were, it was an era. Um, but, uh, their movie is called self reliance Christina: Oh, this is the, okay, yeah. And it Brett: it stars Nick Miller. Yeah. And it, it looks dumb. Yeah, it looks dumb, but I decided to give it a chance and it’s actually so the the premise and I won’t give the movie away. But the premise is that he is pulled off the street into a limousine and offered, um. A million dollars to be hunted and stay alive for 30 Jeff: This is my specific fantasy. Christina: So, so, so, so, so it’s, so it’s a Mr. Beast skit. Brett: kind of, but the, the catch is they can’t kill him. If he’s with somebody, he has to be alone to die. And [00:43:00] so the whole his, he calls it a loophole, but it’s just the rule is that he has to be with somebody all the time. And that’s how you survive. And he’s kind of a loner. He lives with his mom and his parent, his family doesn’t believe. That this game is real. So Christina: So they don’t sit. Brett: out with them. Christina: Right. Right. Cause usually you just be like, bro, I will split this money with you. You just have to like stay by my side for 30 days. It’s fine. Brett: Right. And, and so he meets Anna Kendrick, uh, who’s also ostensibly playing the game and they team up and what it ends up being is kind of a heartwarming, like. This, this is what this guy had to do to develop human connection, um, with someone that would actually stand him for that long. And by the end, you’re even the viewer is not sure, like he becomes an unreliable narrator and you’re not certain the game is real either. You’re not certain. It’s going to be one of [00:44:00] those things where like the camera pans out and nothing else is there. And he’s just alone yelling at himself in a warehouse. And, um, Christina: Like a Mr. B sketch. Sorry. I keep Brett: Yeah. So, so it gets, it gets trippy. It gets heartwarming. Um, it it’s, it’s really well done. I really enjoy him as an actor. Um, I love new girl. He was my favorite character on new girl. Um, yeah. So, okay. So it started as a sunny Philly, sunny in Philadelphia connection morphed into a new girl connection. And that my friends is Brett’s media corner for this week. Jeff: Thanks, Brett. Christina: Thanks, Brett. Brett: Have you guys seen high potential at all? Jeff: No. Brett: I would, I recommend if you enjoy like. I mean, it’s, it’s a, it’s a worn out, um, premise for a show, but like the oddball police consultant Christina: Yeah. No,[00:45:00] Brett: style. Christina: no, I, I, I, I like the concept. Sponsor Break: 1Password Christina: Um, I think this is probably a good time to segue into our, um, sponsor break. Brett: Oh, we should probably do that. Oh my God. It’s 46 minutes in what happened to the time? Uh, this is our last, this is our last one sponsor, uh, one, one sponsor password ship. I’m so Jeff: Yes! Alright, this is gonna be great. We don’t owe them anything. It’s the last read. Brett, I want you to bring everything you’ve got today or don’t have to this read. Go. Brett: Okay. You got it. Let me, uh, I got to zoom my script in here. So it’s huge on my screen. Okay. I’ve done this before. It shouldn’t be hard. Imagine and Jeff: Imagine in a Christina: Imagine, in a world, your company’s security is like a quad on a college campus. There are nice brick paths between the buildings. Those are the company owned devices, IT [00:46:00] approved apps and managed employee identities. Brett take it away. Brett: then there are the paths that people actually use the shortcuts worn between the what, what, Jeff: I do Foley? Hold on. Christina: Yes. Jeff: walking. We’re walking. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. Brett: and then there are the paths that people actually use the shortcuts worn through the grass that are the actual straightest line from point a to B. Those are the unmanaged devices, shadow IT apps and non employee identities like contractors. Most security tools only work on those happy brick paths. Do you have a sound effect for happy breakfast, Jeff: We, Brett: but a lot of security problems take place on the shortcuts. One password extended access management is the first security solution that brings all of these unmanaged devices, apps, and identities under your control. It ensures that every user credential is strong and protected. Every device is known and healthy, and every app is visible. One password [00:47:00] extended access management solves the problems that traditional I. A. M. And M. D. M. Can’t it’s security for the way we work today and it’s now generally available to companies with Octa and Microsoft Entra and in beta for Google workspace customers. Check it out at one password dot com slash overtired. That’s one as in the number one one password dot com slash overtired. And seriously, we’re joking around. But thank you, 1Password. It has been a pleasure and, and we are all big fans and don’t take it personally. We love you. Jeff: what if we, um, and so thus ends the sponsor break of a demo. Okay. Nostalgic Tech Talk Jeff: What if, um, when we don’t have sponsors, we work our way through fake sponsorships for the various Linux distributions. Christina: Ooh. Okay. So the very Jeff: Today is brought to you by Linux Mint. Christina: today, this episode is brought to you by Hannah Montana Linux, Jeff: Hmm. Ooh, wow. I’m Brett: I [00:48:00] remember that. Yeah, I remember. We talked about that one Christina: We did. We did. I did. I shared it. I did. I did. And like, it has actually been my low key dream. Ooh, maybe that’s what I’ll do in my two weeks off. Maybe I’ll like come up with a new theme for like a more modern Linux system and be like, here’s a re spin Hannah Montana Linux 2025. Jeff: Oh man. Oh, I love this so much. I, okay. Can I, two things. One, my, my wife was working on a vacation that literally that was going to be like Japan and Montana in the same, uh, summer. And, and we called it Japan and Montana. And I’m really sad now because I wanted to get like matching family shirts that said Japan and Montana Christina: Yes. Jeff: Um. But anyway, very good. But also yesterday, so we have this amazing place called free geek here, which is like, it’s two things. It’s an electronics thrift store, they call themselves, but it’s also a place where you can go sit at a table and take apart electronics that you pull from a mountain of electronics to be recycled, basically, they split all the parts up, send them off to recycling anything that can be fixed or whatever goes into this thrift store, but [00:49:00] also things just people bring in there was. And I swear to God, I was so close to buying it. It was 120. It was this, this beautiful pink enclosure, um, of a, of a computer of a CPU. And it was like a square and it was weird and it was gorgeous. And it was a Linux mint box. And like it was 120 was from 2016. My son and I were just staring at it and I’m like. Do I bring this home? Do I bring this home? I did not bring it home, but it was gorgeous. And I, and I just, I want to, I wish I could meet the person that made it, because it was just the best. Anyway, that’s all. Linux Mint, thank you Linux Mint for sponsoring us today. Christina: We, we appreciate it Linux Mint and uh, stay tuned Hannah Montana Linux because you’re, you’re, you’re next. Jeff: Yeah, yeah. We could have a sweepstakes for Japan and Montana, where we give people, we could all probably, we could probably collaborate and, like, pool our points, and give a listener a trip to Japan and Montana. Maybe. Brett: I don’t want to do that. Jeff: [00:50:00] Oh, okay. All right. Okay. That’s fine. Christina: Fine. grAPPtitude Brett: do want to do a gratitude. Jeff: Oh, fine. Brett: Who goes first? Do I go first? Christina: You go first. Brett: So I, I have owned a license for Devin think pro since I don’t know, fucking nineties. Um, like for as long as it’s been around, I’ve always been enamored with Devin thinking I used it a decade ago for a little while. Um, and it overwhelmed me and for the succeeding years, I always renewed my license. I always owned the latest version and never really. Got into it. Um, and I generally would use like curio for brainstorming and I would keep all my notes in Markdown and NB ultra NB ultra. And, um, and every time I loaded up Devon think there are so many ways to organize information and so many [00:51:00] different kind of, um, approaches that you kind of have to design your own. System and it always got so fiddly that I gave up on it. But this time as I’m doing all of this research on dysautonomia and my symptoms and trying to cross link and cross reference and I needed to store PDFs and I needed to store web archives and web locations, uh, mix in with all my markdown notes and I needed to be able to annotate and, and link annotations to other PDFs and other documents and. Devon think was the only thing that could do all of that. So I finally got into Devon think and now that I’m into it, I’m really into it. Um, I loaded up, I loaded up just to look at the beauty of my research collection and every time I get to add a new PDF to it and link it and classify it and categorize it and tag it. Um, I get really excited now because like so much of it is kind of [00:52:00] automatic. Once you have your system set up and and all of my keywords and tags from other systems import into it, and it works perfectly with like my LinkedIn, uh, RSS feed for bookmarking. It works with Envy Ultra. Um, I can access the same. I can access all of my markdown notes and PDFs in Envy Ultra, add notes, edit notes, and it’s already automatically synced in Devon think and vice versa. Um, and when they. When you save a webpage, you can choose to mark downify it. And the tool they use for markdownification is my Markie, the markdownifier version 1. Um, I gave it to them. They host their own, they host their own Markie 1. 0 and I just started talking with, uh, Eric, the CEO, and we’re gonna, we’re gonna upgrade them to Markie 2. 0. Uh, Jeff: Ooh, that’s exciting. Brett: it’s quite an honor. They’ve been using my software longer than I’ve been using theirs. So.[00:53:00] Jeff: I love Devon Think. I’ve been using it since either George W. Bush’s first or second term. Brett: Yeah, Jeff: Yeah. Amazing. And it, and the man, it just gets better and better and it’s so solid. It’s never janky. Brett: I, I’m Jeff: so much at it. Brett: I am under NDA, um, to talk about the next version. Um, so I can’t, I can’t tell you anything about it. All I can tell you is there’s cool stuff coming. It’s going to be cool. Jeff: Excellent. That’s Brett: should get on the beta. You should sign the NDA and get on the beta. Jeff: Yeah, I could do that. I mean, yeah, I’ll Brett: I’ll hook you up. I’ll hook you up. Jeff: up with the beta, dude. Brett: All right. That’s mine. Jeff: awesome. Christina: Okay. I will go next. Okay. Sorry. Give me one second. I’ve got to sign into my account, which this is going to be fun to see how this works in 12 minutes. Um, Jeff: Do you want me to go? Christina: no, no, [00:54:00] no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It’s just, it’s just like, cause I’m about to, I’m losing access to my GitHub accounts in, uh, uh, 12 minutes. Not my personal account. Obviously they’ll, they’ll take me off of stuff. Okay. So this is, this is a cool app. So I’m sure we’ve all been in this experience where we download apps that, uh, don’t have a developer signature on them for whatever reason. And, um, you can obviously run terminal commands to put them in quarantine or de quarantine them or whatever. I even, like, had, like, an alias set up at one point. But it’s annoying. And, um, and it’s, and it’s only getting worse with, with, uh, Sequoia. So, and, and it will only get worse. So there is an app that I, that is called Sentinel that is signed. Um, that is, um, UI gatekeeper configuration UI. And so all you have to do is drag your app, um, To either self sign it or remove it from quarantine, and it will do that for you. So you can install it from homebrew, um, uh, if you, um, use this [00:55:00] user’s tap or you can get it off of, um, his, uh, um, uh, whatchamacallit, um, GitHub repo, um, the same developer also makes a app called pair cleaner, which is, um, very similar to app cleaner, but it’s apparently supposed to be better. So, um, I, I, uh, I don’t really know the differences there except Brett: You know, like app delete, Christina: um, no, um, the, um, uh, yeah, app, app, app cleaner, you know, uh, which is like the uninstaller app. Brett: I thought, yeah, there’s, there’s a bunch. I Christina: There’s an app. The one I’ve used is, is app Brett: I use hazel now, but Christina: Yeah, the one I use is AppCleaner, but, um, Hazel works well too. So anyway, um, this is, uh, one that, uh, so he has that pair, pair cleaner, which is pretty good. I think it’s basically AppCleaner, but it’s supposed to be more, more updated. And, but, but Sentinel is, uh, I’m, I’m a fan. And, uh, this is definitely something that like, I am appreciative of not having to, um, always remember, like, whatever the [00:56:00] hell the. You know, command is because the thing is that I might have, I have aliases on like one of my machines, but like not on all of them because I don’t properly, um, get repo all of my, um, aliases. Um, I need to get on that, um, but this is just Brett: Yeah, no, that’s awesome. I, I definitely run into that and I don’t know why people are releasing software without signing it, but it happens a lot Christina: Well, the reason is because, you know, obviously there are ways where you can like sign without paying for the developer fee, but it’s, it’s complicated and, and I, I fully understand, especially for like open source types of stuff, like where people are like, I don’t want to spend, I don’t want to give Apple a hundred dollars a year if I’m not making any money on this, why do I need to spend a hundred dollars a year to do this? I actually fully understand that. Like, I think Brett: Yeah. Apple should have app. I mean, copilot gives. You get co pilot for free. If you develop open source, why wouldn’t you get your Apple developer account for free if you weren’t doing anything commercial, Christina: Because you know that, that they would, they would view that as a [00:57:00] potential, um, like, uh, pri not privacy vector, like a certain security vector, like, that I think that, that they would think that there would be a lot of people who would come up with accounts for nefarious reasons so that they could have stuff, and it’s like, okay, but in that case, you just cancel Brett: you revoke that. Yeah. Christina: revoke, Brett: you control the signature. Um, yeah. All right. That’s awesome. What you got Jeff. Jeff: Mine is a piece of software that came out, um, 42 years ago next week. Uh, it’s called Lotus one, two, three. Um, and here’s why I’m not kidding. Um, I, we have a nineties PC here. Cause my, my two sons love like doom and quake and all these old nineties games, and they insist on playing them on a nineties PC. So at this electric electronics thrift store, I talked about, we picked one up. Um, it’s that’s 46, not quite the Pentium yet. Thinking of building a Pentium machine over the summer. Talk about that later. Um, but I have all these [00:58:00] diskettes from back in the day and they start in about 95 and go through about 2001. And, um, so much of my journaling and things I wrote and stuff from the Iraq organization I helped to run and stuff like that are on these diskettes. And I wanted to just like transfer them. And so we actually have like a five gigabyte drive on this thing. Like living in the future. Um, and so I, I pulled all these things in and what was amazing. So I also have, I got Lotus one, two, three off the free shelf at the thrift store and it was still wrapped. And I was like, this is fucking awesome. This is going to be so fun. So like, I, I loaded it up. It’s great. And, and it’s so, I mean, it was so powerful at the time. So exciting at the time, uh, when I used, I didn’t use it at 83. I used it around like 92 or something like that, but like. There were all these files that I couldn’t open because I don’t have the software anymore or whatever else. Um, yet I haven’t loaded it on and it was able to just like dig in there and pull the content out, not just be a spreadsheet program. Like it’s really got this amazing ability to just like [00:59:00] parse any kind of file and pull content out in a way that’s readable. And I was blown away. I was like, go. Get them Lotus one, two, Christina: Hell yeah. Jeff: and it, and it like saved, it allowed me to see like old journals and all like emails from the earliest days of email and like all this different stuff. And it was just like, so impressed. And I loved that. I got it wrapped off a free shelf because it was actually, I knew it could probably do that. And so I actually had the excitement of going through the, like four disc install, or it’s just like insert disc two of four, it’s just like, I fucking just to quote. Commercial from the beginning of this. I fucking love computing and it was just the best. And then I transferred, the funniest thing was I transferred all my diskettes onto a folder on my windows 95 desktop and, and then felt secure, which is really funny. I was like, Oh, it’s all saved. Christina: It’s wild. Brett: how many of those blue, um, trifold windows 95 CD holders did you guys have with the, [01:00:00] each one with its own serial number on it that you had to type in? Christina: I only had one, but, um, or, or, yeah, cause I had one for 195 and then I had one, I guess, for 98. And then, but I had a bunch for XP. Um, I had a bunch for XP and, and, and, and it was, um, green for home and it was, um, blue for pro. Because that was the first time they’ve needed that. Brett: and you could buy like a five pack on like eBay Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Brett: know how legit they were, but Christina: I mean, they were fine enough. Look, the, the key that I use. Brett: collections of the Christina: Yeah. I was going to say I use that, that one windows 95 key. Um, we find it, um, uh, five key. Um, it’s famous. It’s like the, um, um, what should we call it? Um, Brett: God mode. Christina: yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. , the quintessential, uh, Windows XP key, uh, was, uh, was, was the one like that, like everybody used for forever. Uh, that was leaked from like the, the gold master [01:01:00] or whatever. And like everybody used that key, um, for, for years. And then finally like in like 2005 or something like Microsoft finally like banned it, but you know. It, it, it worked for a really, really long time. Jeff: That’s awesome. Uh, by the way, just real quick. I’m on the Lotus one, two, three Wikipedia page. And there’s a, there’s an image for a sample macro. And the image is actually a picture of a, of like a yellowing dot matrix printout of macros code. Christina: FCKGW. Sorry. Sorry. FCKGW. That was, that was the Brett: I remember this. Jeff: Awesome. Brett: All right. Jeff: Oh, can we do a, can we do a whole episode one time? Like it’s 19, like say 92 and we could just not acknowledge anything that came after it, Christina: No, I love that idea. I love that idea. Like genuinely I’m, I’m, I’m completely there, right? Like Jeff: All right. All right. Christina: music, TV, movies, computing. Jeff: tech podcast. Christina: Oh my Jeff: Oh, that’s our new podcast. The earliest tech podcast. Christina: tech podcast. [01:02:00] That would actually be really, really fun to just, to just go back to a day in time and be like, let’s react as let’s react to what the news was at the time and like, talk about those things as if we have no idea what’s Brett: and yeah, not acknowledge any, like we can be awed by, you know, like, like 256 megabyte hard drives. Christina: Yeah, no, because we shit we would be right. Like in 1992, that Jeff: I don’t even know why they call these floppy disks, they’re not floppy Christina: They’re not floppy. Who would ever need more than 1. 44 megabytes ever? Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Remember when a floppy was floppy? Christina: Yeah. Jeff: Anyway. Alright. Christina: games are, I don’t know, man. They’re, I don’t know if this technology is going to take off. Jeff: Alright, I’m in. Alright. Get Some Sleep Brett: I gotta I gotta quit while I’m still Jeff: Brett, good luck. Brett: have to edit this Jeff: it slow. Brett: Yeah, we’ll try. Um Thanks you guys. Good to see you. We might be on break might be on break for a couple weeks here We’ll find out we’ll see we’ll see who shows up next week. Maybe none of us. All right. Love you Jeff: [01:03:00] Alright. Yeah, you too. Get some sleep.

Brett and Christina return from their hiatus with a chaotic blend of health updates, travel tales, and tech talk. Brett opens up about his struggles with Dysautonomia and the labyrinth of healthcare, while Christina shares her whirlwind travel experiences from Salt Lake City to Rome. They dive into the marvels of AI, revealing how even rabbis can now build apps with ChatGPT. Brett extols a scheduling app that ensures he never misses a meeting, despite his notorious forgetfulness. Plus, the nightmare of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich wreaking havoc on a brand-new MacBook keyboard. Expect tech-savvy insights, a bit of health drama, and a lot of catching up. Sponsor 1Password Extended Access Management solves the problems traditional IAM and MDM can’t . It’s security for the way we work today, and it’s now generally available to companies with Okta and Microsoft Entra, and in beta for Google Workspace customers. Check it out at 1password.com/overtired. Show Links Spanish Prisoner Out of Sight Copilot Cookbook Cursor mise Brett’s Giveaways Brett’s Favorites Lists In Your Face Acorn Chapters 00:00 Welcome Back! 01:36 Brett’s Health Struggles 16:03 Christina’s Travel Adventures 22:09 Movie Talk: Heist Films and More 28:02 AI and Privacy Concerns 37:50 Introducing Copilot Chat Cookbook 38:19 New Free Version of Copilot 39:18 Model Switching in Copilot Pro 40:12 Multi-Edit Feature in VS Code 40:46 Sponsor Shoutout: 1Password 42:12 Switching to Mise for Version Management 44:51 AI and App Development 50:35 GrAPPtitude: InYourFace App 52:28 GrAPPtitude: Acorn 8 58:47 Challenges of Modern Blogging 01:01:10 New Terminal Emulator: Ghosty 01:02:45 MacBook Pro M4 and Storage Woes 01:13:20 Upcoming Events and Farewell Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.