

People Inspired By Purpose - Purposely Podcast
Mark Longbottom
Speaking with people of purpose, those making the world a better place
People Inspired By Purpose - Purposely Podcast amplifies the stories of inspirational people from across the Globe, philanthropy leaders, founders and CEO's of nonprofits, charities, for purpose business leaders as well social entrepreneurs. They are often inspired by their own experiences.
Join the Purposely team www.purposelypodcast.com
People Inspired By Purpose - Purposely Podcast amplifies the stories of inspirational people from across the Globe, philanthropy leaders, founders and CEO's of nonprofits, charities, for purpose business leaders as well social entrepreneurs. They are often inspired by their own experiences.
Join the Purposely team www.purposelypodcast.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

Sep 4, 2023 • 46min
#161 Leading a charity, Tracy Clark CEO of Young Gloucestershire & Infobuzz
Tracy Clark, CEO of Young Gloucestershire (YG), has joined Purposely to share her remarkable journey in non-profit leadership and her organisation's mission to empower young people throughout the county to realise their full potential.
Tracy is an inspiring and purpose-driven leader, embodying the ideal qualities of a charitable leadership including empathy, lived experience, a commitment to growth, both personally and as a leader. She places a strong emphasis on valuing and respecting young individuals and their unique challenges. Tracy takes pride in her ability to deeply understand the issues faced by the individuals her charity serves.
What stands out is Tracy's ability to connect with people from all walks of life. She navigates comfortably when dealing with government officials, business leaders, boards of trustees, or high-net-worth donors in the more affluent areas of the county.
Tracy's distinctive background and life experiences make her the perfect candidate to lead a grassroots charity, a role she has successfully filled for over a
decade. Despite numerous challenges, including funding shortages, a rising cost of living, and the global pandemic that has exacerbated mental health issues among young people, she continues to lead YG with unwavering energy. Her effectiveness in this role was so remarkable that she was entrusted with a second role as the part-time CEO of Infobuzz, another local charity focused on
transforming lives.
Young Gloucestershire was established following the merger of two youth groups in the 1940s. For over eighty years, it has been inspiring young people in both rural and urban settings, including cities, towns, and villages.
Tracy humbly deflects the claim that she is the ideal charity leader, instead emphasising her focus on aiding young people facing the most significant life
challenges—those stemming from socio-economic issues, psychological abuse, or neglect. These are young individuals often living on the fringes of society, brimming with potential but uncertain about how they can contribute to society or lead fulfilled, purposeful lives. YG achieves this through a range of services, either provided directly or on behalf of other organisations like the Prince's Trust, where they offer a 12-week engagement program for young individuals not engaged in education, employment, or training, helping them discover motivation and become the best versions of themselves.
Many of the young people they assist come from tumultuous home environments, are caregivers for family members, or are grappling with mental health challenges. Young people turn to YG for support, and the organization assists them in practical ways, helping them build the confidence and skills necessary to reorient their lives toward gainful employment, education, or training.

Aug 28, 2023 • 55min
#160 Empowering charities to engage Government and deliver their mission, Angus Crowther and Neil Pharaoh founders of Tanck
Introducing Angus Crowther and Neil Pharaoh, Co-founders of Tanck, a consultancy firm transforming government engagement and advocacy for purpose-led organisations.
Tanck's mission is to empower purpose-led organisations by providing the know-how and the strategy for impactful government engagement. The is B Corp certified consultancy firm is on a mission to level the playing field by countering the influence of lobbyists and private interests that often shape policy decisions.
United by their shared dedication to positive change, Angus Crowther and Neil Pharaoh are reshaping the dynamics of government engagement for purpose-led organisations.
In a world grappling with urgent environmental crises and profound social issues, the role of charities and purpose-led organisations has become unparalleled. These entities champion the voices of stakeholders who often lack direct avenues to connect with policymakers and governments. Effective government engagement bridges the gap between their aspirations and the decisions that shape our society.
Embedded within social purpose organisations is an innate commitment to democracy's preservation and promotion. Their work not only confronts critical social challenges but also empowers the public with accessible information, facilitating informed decisions and tangible actions. The charity sector
assumes a pivotal role by holding both public and private sectors accountable, ensuring that policies align with broader societal interests.
Angus Crowther brings a unique perspective rooted in his background as a policy and political advisor. His diverse portfolio spans vital sectors, showcasing versatility and deep comprehension of societal complexities. Beyond politics, Angus is a passionate advocate for the LGBTIQ+ community, aligning his personal journey with professional ambitions, driving his commitment to meaningful societal shifts.
Equally passionate, co-founder Neil Pharaoh drives government engagement and advocacy. With an extensive background spanning social purpose, government, public policy, and advocacy, Neil's leadership roles position him as a catalyst for transformative change. His efforts span crucial domains, including child welfare, education, refugee support, and LGBTIQ+ issues.
Neil's influence extends beyond campaigns, notably within the LGBTIQ+ philanthropic group GiveOUT and his contributions to legislative reforms. His pivotal role in founding Tanck in 2021 underscores his dedication to positive transformation.
As Tanck continues to empower organisations dedicated to societal transformation, the combined legacies of Angus and Neil resonate. They hope their commitment will reshape how purpose-led organisations interact with governments, paving a path toward a promising future defined by positive change.

Aug 21, 2023 • 36min
#159 Launching a 'for purpose' start-up, Stephanie Pow founder & CEO of Crayon
Stephanie Pow, the founder and CEO of Crayon, joins the Purposely to share her mission
and her remarkable career journey. At the heart of Crayon, a groundbreaking online platform, lies a commitment: empowering parents to seize financial success. Stephanie, an accomplished Harvard graduate and former stockbroker, embarked on this transformative journey fuelled by her own parental experiences.
Despite working in the finance industry, Stephanie was confronted unforeseen economic questions when she became a parent, ones she wasn’t prepared to answer. At the same time she realised that countless parents grappled with similar unanticipated financial challenges. This recognition, especially prevalent in her home base of New Zealand, exposed the pivotal role finances play in parents' pivotal decisions. Strikingly, a staggering 70% of mothers compromise their desired parental leave due to financial constraints. Fathers, sharing aspirations of extended parental
leave, often curtail their plans due to economic pressures. This glaring reality underscored the urgency for a solution that could furnish parents with
the tools to effectively navigate these intricacies.
Crayon's impact-driven mission takes concrete form through three pivotal pillars:
1. Parental Leave Policy Transparency: Crayon unveiled the New Zealand Parental Leave Register—a one-of-a-kind resource spotlighting the parental leave policies of over 220 employers. This innovative platform emboldens parents to make well-informed career and family decisions, erasing awkwardness during interviews or discussions with employers.
2. Financial Baby Prep Program: Acknowledging the dearth of financial readiness among new parents, Crayon unveiled a comprehensive financial baby prep program. This financial antenatal class empowers parents with insights and tools crucial to navigating the intricate financial landscapes accompanying parenthood.
3. Free Resources and Tools: Crayon's website is a treasure trove of complimentary resources and tools catering to various financial facets of parenting.
Stephanie's journey into entrepreneurship wasn't a linear trajectory. Initially she focused her efforts purely on investment solutions, she adroitly shifted her focus towards aiding parents in cultivating deliberate financial strategies during life's pivotal moments. Stephanie astutely identified that moments like parenthood prompt individuals to evaluate their financial standing with greater depth.
Stephanie's purpose-driven approach is influenced by her family. Her late mother's community-centric spirit and her father's unwavering ethics kindled a sense of responsibility and contribution. Her grandparents also, particularly her enterprising grandfather, who surmounted adversity, ignited Stephanie's willingness to be a risk-taking at the same time embrace integrity and purpose.
Looking into Crayon's future, Stephanie envisions a global reach for its influence. Expansion is on the horizon, and she underscores the importance of deploying localised, impactful solutions. Crayon's grand mission is to provide comprehensive financial guidance, ensuring accessibility for all, regardless of their financial background or status.
Stephanie Pow's narrative stands as a testament to the monumental potential achieved when personal purpose harmonises with community-focused entrepreneurship and innovation. As she navigates the complex terrain of parenting and finances, her journey provides inspiration for all those seeking to transform their purpose into real-world change.

Aug 20, 2023 • 54min
#158 Leading a sector to deliver real impact, Gemma Bull and Tom Steinberg co-founders and authors of Modern Grantmaking
Leading a Sector to Deliver Positive Impact: Gemma Bull and Tom Steinberg, Founders of Modern Grantmaking.
In the pursuit of fostering positive change and meaningful impact within the grant-making sector, Gemma Bull and Tom Steinberg have united to form Modern Grantmaking. They both joined Purposely to share their journey as well as their mission to empower
individuals within the sector to transform the grant making sector and deliver greater impact.
Gemma and Tom's familiarity with the charitable sector and grant making is deeply ingrained. They met when they both held senior positions at the UK National Lottery Fund, following their prior experiences in senior leadership and governance roles within the sector.
The culmination of their shared insights, coupled with their expertise in philanthropy and social change, has propelled them to establish their own education and consultancy venture. This endeavor is complemented by the publication of their book, "Modern Grantmaking – A Guide for Funders Who Believe Better Is Possible." United by a shared vision, Gemma and Tom aimed to confront the inefficiencies and constraints pervasive in the traditional grant-making landscape. Forthright, they portray the grant-making domain as an arena populated by "dedicated employees trapped within a creaking system and outdated conventions." They spotlight the lack of professional advancement, alongside a paucity of innovation and outdated methodologies stifling the sector's capacity to engender positive impact.
Beyond serving as a practical guide for enhancing grant-making practices, their book delves into the significance of values. These values, they contend, are pivotal in reshaping how funders catalyse positive change and address social and environmental challenges.
Conceived during the throes of the pandemic, the book aims to disrupt entrenched norms while simultaneously empowering both grant makers and grantees. Their mission revolves around amplifying transparency and optimising the impact of each dollar disbursed. Their efforts facilitate astute decision-making, empowering grant makers to allocate resources judiciously and enabling grantees to channel their energies into their missions, unburdened by administrative encumbrances.
Driven by a resolute desire to empower change agents, "Modern Grantmaking" stands as a call for transformation within the philanthropic sector. It assumes the role of a comprehensive guide, fostering contemplation across diverse facets of a grant maker's role – from strategising and cultivating relationships with grantees, colleagues, and boards, to honing research, management, and self-development skills.

Aug 14, 2023 • 46min
#157 Leading through lived experience, Rachel Friend CEO at Little Miracles Trust
Every year in New Zealand, around 5,000 children are born prematurely. Some of these babies come into the world as early as 23 weeks into pregnancy and weigh as little as 500 grams. These tiny new-borns face a tough battle for survival and often need to spend a long time in neonatal intensive care units. While doctors and hospitals take care of their medical needs, there's often a missing piece: the comprehensive support that parents and families require to navigate the many challenges that come with premature birth.
Stepping in to fill this important gap is the Little Miracles Trust. This organisation offers crucial assistance to families dealing with the intricate practical and
emotional aspects of premature births. While medical professionals focus on the babies' health, Little Miracles Trust provides the essential help that parents
and families need to handle the unique challenges that premature birth brings.
Meet Rachel Friend, the CEO of the Little Miracles Trust, who joins Purposely to talk about her organisation's story and her own experience as a mother of a
prematurely born child.
Rachel's journey has been quite remarkable. She used to work in the corporate world, but her path took a new direction when she became a mother. This personal experience motivated her to transition from her corporate career to leading a charity.
Rachel's shift in focus was driven by her own real-life challenges. She had to navigate the complexities of caring for her son, Rueben, who was born prematurely. This experience gave her a deep understanding of the difficulties and emotions that parents of premature babies go through. This understanding and empathy are crucial in her role, where she ensures that her organisation provides the right services to support others in similar situations.
A central part of their mission is to guide parents through the often-challenging journey of premature birth while offering comprehensive support in various
forms. Many members of the Little Miracles Trust team, like Rachel, have first-hand experience with this journey, which gives them a deep understanding of both the practical and emotional challenges involved. Their primary focus is on supporting parents whose infants require neonatal intensive care within specialised units in New Zealand. The main objective is to ease the burden and lessen the traumatic impacts on these families. The scope of assistance they provide is wide-ranging, encompassing the sharing of information, as well as practical, financial, and emotional aid.
In addition to their direct support for families, the Trust also contributes to the advancement of neonatal-related medical research. This commitment lays the groundwork for innovations that have the potential to positively impact the lives of both prematurely born infants and their families.
Rachel's journey goes beyond just overcoming challenges; it stands as a testament to resilience and compassion. Her transformation from a mother grappling with the uncertainties of premature birth to her role as CEO of the Little Miracles Trust highlights the remarkable ability to turn adversity into a catalyst for positive change. Rachel's unwavering dedication to her mission has sparked a ripple effect of
increased awareness and support, inspiring numerous families to find hope even in the face of adversity.
As the Little Miracles Trust looks toward the future, their determination to expand their influence remains steadfast. Rachel's leadership has played a crucial role in guiding the organisation's growth; however, she is due to stand down from the CEO role at the end of the year (2023) and transitioning to a trustee role on the board.
Rachel will continue to play a role in the Trust's strategic direction, while a new CEO takes the helm to oversee daily operations and guide their future services.

Aug 7, 2023 • 36min
#154 Creating lasting community impact, Ruth Ibegbuna founder & CEO of Rekindle School: first featured on Charity Impact Podcast hosted by Alex Blake
The team at Purposely is delighted to present an episode of the UK-based Charity Impact Podcast featuring the remarkable serial social entrepreneur, Ruth Ibegbuna.
In this interview, host Alex Blake takes us on a journey through Ruth Ibegbuna's inspiring life, where she has founded multiple organisations
including Reclaim Project, Roots Programme, Rekindle School, and Northern Soul. Ruth shares her transition from being a teacher to becoming a dedicated social entrepreneur, emphasising the vital role of listening to communities and addressing their unique needs. Through her experiences, she highlights the
significance of balancing grassroots care with thought leadership, resulting in a positive and lasting impact in the realm of social change.
Fundraising and board meetings can indeed be daunting challenges for any social entrepreneur, but in this conversation, Alex and Ruth delve into
invaluable insights on building strong relationships with funders and assembling the right individuals for your organisation's board. They touch upon key
strategies that have brought remarkable successes to Ruth's ventures, which have in turn led to significant changes in the communities they serve. Ruth
shares the transformative power of embracing difficult conversations when necessary and adopting a genuine and authentic approach in professional
settings.
Moreover, the discussion takes a closer look at the importance of taking risks and fostering a culture of learning within the realm of social
entrepreneurship. Ruth sheds light on Rekindle School, a groundbreaking initiative operating alongside the regular school curriculum, providing young
people with a safe space to explore critical topics such as feminism, toxic masculinity, and race.
Throughout the conversation, Alex and Ruth also highlight the significance of finding useful resources for social entrepreneurs and the undeniable power
of taking action by connecting with organisations that are making a positive impact.
If you're looking for inspiration to elevate your own organisation's impact, don't miss out on this enlightening conversation with Ruth Ibegbuna.
Join Alex Blake and get ready to be inspired by Ruth's extraordinary journey and her unwavering dedication to making the world a better place.

Jul 31, 2023 • 48min
#156 Swapping the music industry for purpose and profit, Duncan Morley Bruce founder Give Credit
In the ever-evolving world of payments processing, characterised by constant innovation and technological advancements, there emerges a standout startup with a unique approach and a charitable mission. Give Credit, a US-based payments processing company that not only delivers payment solutions but also generates vital funds for non-profit organisations.
Co-founder and CEO Duncan Morley Bruce joined Purposely Podcast to share his company’s mission as well as his personal story. Duncan is a driven and charismatic person who is determined to reshape the role of business, with more of a focus on making a positive impact on bringing about positive social change.
Before diving into the area of entrepreneurship and payments processing, Duncan Morley Bruce's life was centred around his passion for music and performing. From a young age, he was drawn to the art of singing, song writing, and creativity. As a child, Duncan's love for music was evident, and he began writing songs as early as the age of 10.
Duncan's foray into the music industry was successful and he achieved notable accolades, including becoming a three-time Billboard
charting artist, with his song "Find You Now" featuring Rick Ross reaching the top 10 on the Billboard charts. Additionally, Duncan had the
privilege of collaborating with renowned artists like DJ Paul Oakenfold and DJ Scribble.
While Duncan's was having some success with his music career, he never lost sight of his desire to make a difference in the world. One of his most significant achievements in music was a song called "Give Me a Sign," where he aimed to raise awareness about homelessness and poverty. Duncan allocated a portion of the record's proceeds to the charity "Why Poverty," showcasing his passion for philanthropy even within the realm of music.
However, as time passed and the music industry became more and more challenging and unforgiving, Duncan felt a calling to do more than inspire through music. He wanted to leverage his creative background and entrepreneurial mindset to create a lasting impact beyond the realm of
entertainment. With a family to care for and a desire to make a tangible difference, Duncan eventually made the decision to transition from the music industry to a more purpose-driven path.
The idea behind Give Credit came to fruition with Duncan's realisation that the payments industry held tremendous untapped potential for driving positive change. Along with his co-founder, Robert Nekoroski set out to create a payment processing company that went beyond
simply facilitating transactions. Give Credit is designed to make a lasting impact by channelling a percentage of every transaction towards supporting
charitable causes and social initiatives.
Duncan believes that Give Credit's innovative approach to payments processing, combined with its commitment to social responsibility, will transform everyday transactions into a means of generating funds for worthy causes.

Jul 24, 2023 • 46min
#155 Personal experience inspires mission, Sasha Lockley co-founder & CEO Money Sweetspot
In the realm of social enterprises, there are visionary leaders driven by a deep desire to make a positive impact on society based on their own life
experiences. Sasha Lockley, the founder and CEO of Money Sweetspot, is one such remarkable individual. Based in New Zealand, Money Sweetspot is a trailblazing social enterprise that aims to empower individuals and communities to achieve financial wellness.
Sasha's journey as a social entrepreneur was inspired by her early years and her own family story, which connected her to the struggles faced by her customers at Money Sweetspot.
Her father, who owned a bus company in Stafford, England, faced challenging times when Sasha's grandfather unexpectedly passed away. To help run the family dairy farm, Sasha's father had to put his own business on hold, leading to significant financial struggles that eventually resulted in bankruptcy. Sasha
emphasises that such incidents can happen to anyone, and her father was not at fault; rather, he was a good person who encountered unfortunate circumstances.
Originally from the UK, Sasha immigrated to New Zealand, initially intending for it to be a temporary move. However, while working in finance roles there, she witnessed first-hand the financial challenges that individuals and families face. This experience ignited her determination to create a solution that would bridge the gap and empower people to achieve financial freedom.
The idea for Money Sweetspot took shape when Sasha realised that traditional financial services often failed to meet the needs of underserved and vulnerable populations. Recognising the potential of technology and innovative approaches, she set out to create a platform that would revolutionise the way people managed their money and coped with debt.
At the core of Money Sweetspot's mission lies the belief that financial wellness should be accessible to everyone, regardless of their background or income level. The platform offers personalized financial guidance, budgeting tools, and resources, empowering users to set achievable financial goals and work towards them with confidence.
Sasha's journey as a social entrepreneur was not without challenges. Building a social enterprise from scratch requires resilience and determination. However, Sasha's unwavering commitment to her vision and the positive impact Money Sweetspot could have on people's lives kept her motivated.
Today, Money Sweetspot is making a significant impact in New Zealand and beyond. Within months of its official launch, this innovative debt consolidation social enterprise has already provided nearly $3 million in loans to New Zealanders grappling with unmanageable debt. The platform has helped countless individuals gain control over their finances, reduce debt, and build a more secure financial future.
Beyond providing financial tools and resources, Money Sweetspot actively collaborates with community organisations and educational institutions to promote financial literacy. Through workshops, seminars, and partnerships, the social enterprise is on a mission to create a financially empowered society that can navigate life's challenges with confidence and resilience.
As Money Sweetspot continues to grow and touch the lives of more people, Sasha's story serves as an inspiration for aspiring social entrepreneurs to follow their vision and turn their dreams into reality. Through her remarkable journey, Sasha Lockley exemplifies the profound impact one individual can make in shaping a better tomorrow for all.

Jul 17, 2023 • 50min
#153 Pioneering a new approach to philanthropy, Mary Rose Gunn founder and CEO of The Fore
In the world of philanthropy and social impact, there are pioneers who go above and beyond to make a difference. One such visionary is Mary Rose Gunn, the founder and CEO of The Fore. With a unique approach to funding and empowering small charities and social enterprises, Mary Rose has dedicated her career to driving positive change. In this blog post, we explore Mary Rose's remarkable journey, the impact of The Fore, and her unwavering commitment to creating a better future.
Unleashing Potential: Founded in 2017, The Fore is a trailblazing charity that stands out for its innovative approach. Mary Rose Gunn saw the need for a different kind of funding model – one that goes beyond traditional grants. Drawing inspiration from venture capital practices, The Fore provides early-stage seed capital to social entrepreneurs who are tackling pressing societal and environmental issues. By identifying and supporting promising ventures, The Fore helps these organisations unleash their full potential and create significant social impact.
A Comprehensive Package of Support: The Fore doesn't just offer financial assistance; it provides a comprehensive package of support. Through tailored business support and access to a network of mentors, The Fore empowers organisations to overcome challenges and thrive in their respective fields. Mary Rose Gunn understands the power of collaboration and the value of a strong support system. She speaks highly of her team and acknowledges the expertise and experience of her Board of Trustees, recognising that their collective effort has been instrumental in
The Fore's success.
A Catalyst for Transformative Social Change: Under Mary Rose Gunn's leadership, The Fore UK has already made a profound impact on numerous organisations. By scalingoperations, enhancing capabilities, and making a tangible difference in the communities they serve, these organisations have become agents of transformative social change. The Fore UK fosters a culture of collaboration and learning, serving as a catalyst for positive and lasting impact.
Mary Rose Gunn's passion for philanthropy and social change is infectious. She actively engages with individuals from various sectors, including business, charity, and the public sector. Drawing inspiration from their diverse experiences, Mary Rose embraces the power of different perspectives and recognizes the contributions of individuals working across different industries. This collaborative mindset has been instrumental in The Fore's success and positive impact.
A Vision for the Future: Mary Rose's vision for The Fore extends far beyond the present. She envisions a future where The Fore supports 1000 more exceptional small charities and social enterprises. By "moving the needle," she believes that together, they can create a significant and lasting positive change. Mary Rose emphasizes the importance of changing the narrative about problem-solving, investing in communities, and embracing local solutions. She envisions a society where individuals have agency and the power to effect change from the grassroots level.
Inspiring a Shared Vision: Through her remarkable journey, Mary Rose Gunn continues to inspire individuals and organisations to embrace innovation, collaboration, and a shared vision for a better future.
Mary Rose Gunn's journey with The Fore is a testament to the power of disruptive thinking and collaborative action. Through her visionary approach, she has empowered small charities and social enterprises to reach their full potential and make a meaningful difference in society.

Jul 10, 2023 • 42min
#152 Empowering young people through further education, Kirk Sargent CEO of First Foundation
Introducing Kirk Sargent, the CEO of First Foundation, a New Zealand-based charity committed to empowering talented disadvantaged young people to reach their full potential, and lead positive and fulfilling lives.
First Foundation achieves this through a comprehensive approach that includes providing financial assistance, paid work experience, and dedicated mentorship to bright young Kiwis who face challenges in accessing higher education.
Originally from Taranaki, a region in the west of New Zealand's North Island, Kirk now resides in Auckland, where the charity's headquarters are located. With a diverse career background spanning land, construction, and purpose-driven work, Kirk brings a wealth of experience to his role. Having worked in various countries including Fiji, Hawaii, Australia, the UK, and New Zealand, Kirk has witnessed first-hand the transformative power of entrepreneurial and innovative approaches in addressing social and environmental issues. These experiences have fostered in him a deep sense of empathy for different cultures and a resolute determination to contribute to a better world. First Foundation was established in 1998 by respected business leader Steven Carden, who recently re-joined the board of trustees to utilise his skills and experience in ensuring the charity's continued success and the well-being of the young people it supports.
Kirk acknowledges the numerous challenges faced by non-profit leaders, particularly the limited access to resources and funding. However, he expresses gratitude for the dedicated group of donors and corporate supporters who share the organisation's vision and contribute to First Foundation's important work. Kirk also highlights the challenging economic and social realities that underscore the value of First Foundation's efforts, especially considering the burden of student loans on individuals from low-income families. By providing financial assistance and removing barriers, First Foundation goes beyond covering university costs. Their support offers students and their families a sense of opportunity and acts as a powerful incentive for pursuing higher education.
Kirk talks about their goal to create a positive ripple effect that extends through generations. First Foundation scholars, often the first in their family to attend university, testify to the life-changing impact of the support provided by the charity's partners. Additionally, many scholars utilise their improved financial situations to support their parents, siblings, and wider family, further amplifying the far-reaching effects of contributions.