Cider Chat

Delve deep into the realm of cider co-ferments Enjoy this special talk with a tasting of select co-ferments from New York Apple Camp 2023. Hear the discussion on techniques, flavors, and challenges. This talk was hosted by: Dan Pucci, author of "American Cider: A Modern Guide to a Historic Beverage" (2021) Matt Sanford, head cider and wine maker at Rose Hill Farm, New York Matt Sanford and Dan Pucci Co-ferments in this tasting All co-ferments where made in New York. Blackduck Cidery Aronius: A unique co-ferment consisting of 92% apples and 8% Aronia berries, which lend a tannic profile to the glass. Rose Hill Cider Pomme Cerise 2020 & 2021 blend | 20% sweet and sour cherries and 80% apples, this blend showcases the layering of flavors over time.  Mentioned - Rose Hill Cider Pearly Dewdrops' traditional fermented drink made of plums. Cuvée with carbonically macerated Shiro, Early Golden, Oblinaya and Satsuma plums, cherries and nectarines that are blended with apple cider. Dark, resinous fruit flavor buoyed by an invigorating sparkle, this is the stonefruit equivalent to a dry, rustic Lambrusco. Wild years fermentation, no filtering or fining, finished in bottle without additives. Metalhouse Cider Tazza: A co-ferment of cabernet Franc skins that resembles wine in smell and taste but lacks the body of wine. It exudes a piquette-like vibe, combining Macoun and Macintosh apple juice with the robustness of Cab Franc. Rose Hill Cider Chiffonner 9% ABV: Comprising 25% Roxybury Russet, 25% Ashmead's Kernel, and 50% Riesling. This unique blend sits in stainless for six months and another year in neutral oak. If it's not solely made of apples, Rose Hill labels it as wine.   When should a ferment be labeled cider vs. wine? Matt Sanford shares Rose Hill's approach. - The debate continues: Are co-ferments undermining cider? - Ultimately, co-ferments could serve as a gateway to the world of cider for many and with Matt making and other makers show casing what can be done, the future is bright for this category. For a comprehensive dive into co-ferments and to expand your cider palate, tune in to Cider Chat's Episode 379. Info on the speakers: Matt Sanford of Rose Hill Farm | New York Website: https://www.rosehillferments.com/ Dan Pucci - Co-author of American Cider: A Modern Guide to a Historic Beverage (2021) Mentions in this chat Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

Nothing Sharp about the "Ice Cider Queen" Eleanor Léger is affectionately dubbed the Ice Cider Queen by many followers, most notably this podcast. She founded Eden Specialty Cider in 2007, the year of the first harvest of apples for producing Ice Cider at Eden. The act of freezing apple juice outdoors during the coldest days and nights of the winter to extract the water and then ferment the pure juice into what is known as Ice Cider is not new to Canadian makers just over the border from Eden's Newport Vermont headquarters. What is unique however is how Eden marketed and refined the technique to showcase to this delectable aperitif/digestif to a wider audience. Eleanor Léger Many awards later, a White House serving, and a reputation for some of the best Ice Cider in the world is now par for the course for the Queen and her growing realm.  In 2023 Eden is celebrating its fifteenth anniversary and has broadening the business, based in the northeast kingdom of Vermont, to include to two additional brands, Shelburne Vineyard and Iapetus (a natural wine brand). In addition to her role as President and CEO of Eden Specialty Ciders, Eleanor is the Board President for the American Cider Association (ACA). This will be her last year in this role, when a new President is elected in 2024. In total she will have served 3 years in this position and discusses her goal during that time of making the Association accessible to makers who produce less than 25,000 gallons per year . In this Cider Chat: Focusing on Ice Cider as a niche within the niche of cider making From farmhouse to tasting room - the early days of Eden Specialty Ciders A perfect fit of cider, wine and brand expansion Educating people about dry cider Secret confessions from the Queen Work life balance Contact for Eden Specialty Cider, Shelburne Vineyard and Iapetus Wine Website: https://www.edenciders.com/ Mentions in this Chat Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

Fable Farm Fermentory's Co-Evolution of Humanity & Apples The Apple Calls Us In | Fable Farm, VT started 15 years ago... In this episode hear how brother's Jon and Christopher Piana found their way to Fable Farm and how you can get there and enjoy the bounty too! Jon and Chris Piana Hear about: Jon and Christopher's back stories Fable Farm's Feast and Field Event Every Thursday during the summer months, enjoy out door music, food, cider, and more libations The Tasting Room The Cave - underneath the huge barn at Fable Farm The Quarterly Wine Club Foraging Apples Native yeasts, apples and grapes Co-ferments Jon opening bottle in Cider Cave  Ciders Walden (7.0%) A small amount of the 2020 pet nat, Emanation, was barreled down to age an additional two years. Emanation (6.0%) 1-2 years in the bottle, this cider has been rolling out since 2015 Apples from Walden Heights Nursery and Orchard   Fluxion (6.9%) made with a blend multiple vintages, which is a technique called Solera a spritz of maple syrup is added for the secondary fermentation. At this point the yeast remaining in the bottle get reinvigorated and create bubbles. (this is the short story of what is called traditional method) Farm Fermentory Barn sand Feast & Field event set up Contact for Fable Farm Fermentory Website: https://fablefarmfermentory.com/ Shop: https://fablefarmfermentory.com/shop/

Walden Heights Nursery & Orchard (WHNO) was created in 1997 This 22 acre farm with 8 acres of orchards on a hillside outside of Hardwick, Vermont in the town of Walden was founded by Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak. It is a sustainably managed and certified organic fruit orchard and nursery. In this chat, we speak with both founders as they share the history and current educational offerings at WHNO. Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak (w/ frozen jug of apple juice) at WHNO We also discuss how WHNO was awarded a SARE (Sustainable Agricultural Research and Educational Project) grant to study: The evaluations of apple cultivars for hard cider production in the Northeast. The goal of the project as Todd Parlo states it, is “To increase the pool of possibilities for a cider maker. And to get numbers on the constituents of juices of a variety of apple cultivars." 313 apple varieties from WHNO were tested during this project. Todd in the Walden orchard The study was completed and as of 2023 the results of the study can be reviewed via this link online. Walk about the orchard with both Todd and Lori at WHNO and hear about just a few of the 600 apples varieties grown here. Contact for Walden Heights Nursery & Orchard Website: https://waldenheightsnursery.com/about/ Mentions in this Chat Vermont flooding help - Go Fund Me for Henry's Hardware & Den in Cabot Fermentis: AC-4. SafCider™ AC-4 stands for Apple Crisp and is one of 3 SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map Athol Orchards visit this orchard in the Panhandle of Idaho

Cedar Hannan began selling his ciders branded as “Wildbranch” in 2020. He both forages apples and has a small orchard planted that he planted four years ago on his farm based in Craftsbury, Vermont. The ciders are both wild ferments and occasionally have cultured yeasts too. He sells locally at Vermont farmers markets and doesn’t have any immediate plans to increase his production which is currently at 900 gallons per year. Cedar Hannan The Low Carbon Footprint of Cider Cedar was originally looking at brewing as a retirement goal, but (as he notes in this episode) there are already a fantastic number of breweries in the surrounding area. In addition, the carbon footprint of beer is a bit larger than that of making cider at a local scale. Thankfully for us all, Cedar went with his hunch and is making Wildbranch Cider his full time gig, having quit his IT job. Each of the following is what Cedar looks for when foraging apples or pears for Wildbranch. Flavor  - aroma Tannin Acidity Sugar content Wildbranch Ciders tasted in the Episode The Spiney - Flagship cider 6.8% Try with cheddar cheese and grilled pork chop Golden Russet 8.3% Intense fruitiness, Little bit of cooked apple Perry Made with culinary pears - Barlett’s and Big Earl (a local variety) Perry Contact for Wildbranch Cider Website: https://www.wildbranchcider.com/ Mentions in this Chat Fermentis: AC-4. SafCider™ AC-4 stands for Apple Crisp and is one of 3 SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map The Idaho University Extension Program - has a Fermentation Club - Find out about the July 29, 2023 Fermentation class

Bonus Cider Chat Live on NY Apple Camp July 28th - 30th at the Ashokan Center in the Hudson River Valley (on the west side of river) is the first ever NY Apple Camp! Elizabeth Ryan of Stone Ridge Orchard who is producing this event catches us up on the scheduled events and talks.   Special Kickoff tour The weekend begins with an optional tour on Friday focusing on the life of Andrew Jackson Downing. The tour goes to the original site of the Downing Nursery and Downing Park. Then a 2 hour lunch with cider  and off to Esopus  - where the Esopus Spitzenberg originated from. Hear about all the great happenings at NY Apple Camp  Find the Schedule of events and presentations at  https://www.hvcenterforfoodartsandag.org/apple-camp-schedule.html#/ Tickets at: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ny-apple-camp-2023-tickets-657779936497 The Friday tour is optional and there is a request for donations of $30. Mentions in this Cider Chat Live Fermentis: AB-1 (Apple Balance) yeast is one of 3 SafCider Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

Orchardist Ben Applegate on cold climate orchard care Ben is the Orchard Manager at Eden Specialty Cider based in northern Vermont and shares his insight on cold climate apple varieties and orchard tips. This chat took place at Eden's orchards based in what is known as the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont in the town of West Charleston.  Ben Applegate There are 50 Apple varieties at the Eden orchard. Here is a list of just some of the apples discussed in this episode:  Newton Pippin Liberty Stembridge Cluster Rubinette Northern Spy Trembletts Bitter Ben discusses which varieties work well in a cold climate, while recommending that as the temperatures continue to rise both in Vermont and globally, he advises to plant trial apples for the changes ahead. Tips for new orchardists Why you should do a Soil test before planting and what to do with that knowledge Why pruning too early can offset young trees Which apple tree damaging insects to worry about In this Cider Chat episode: We learn about the challenges faced by the young apple trees, such as sun scald and fluctuating temperatures Scythe and Biological Mowing How climate change is affecting traditional production of Ice Cider, which is made by freezing apple juice on the coldest days of the year to freeze the water and then ferment the pure apple juice into what is known as Ice Cider. How acidity of the soil directly affects the acidity of the apples Selection of apple varieties and rootstock is crucial Dwarf tree management Incorporating composted teas for apple trees  The impact of author Micheal Phillips' work Contact for Ben Applegate Website: http://edenciders.com email: mailto:ben@edenciders.com Mentions in this Chat New York Apple Camp July 28th-30th, 2023 Registration is open!

Cider and Spontaneous Fermentation The wild "ambient" yeast found on apples, in the air, on cider presses can all contribute to a spontaneous fermentation within the cider must, which is the juice that has been freshly pressed from a fruit such as apples or grapes and is fermenting. In this episode we hear from Hugues Guichard, who works at the Institut Français des Productions Cidricoles a research institute focusing on cider based in Normandy, France. Hugues presented this lecture at CiderCon 2023, which is hosted by the American Cider Association. Hugues Guichard at CiderCon 2023 Allowing a cider to go through a full spontaneous fermentation successfully is a growing trend within the industry as consumer continue to seek "natural" ciders. Hugues provides a complete overview of the French cider industry and the science behind spontaneous ferments. Subscribe to the Cider Chat YouTube Channel to be notified when the  audio of this lecture synced with the power point slide show goes live to the public. Become a Patreon and view video now In this lecture Part I: French Cider Industry and IFPC Part II: French Cider ProcessingCider Apples and Harvest Possible contamination by spoiling microorganisms Clarification  Fermentation  Maturation Bottling Conclusion Yeast mentioned in this presentation Hanseniaspora is a genus of yeasts, when there is no sulphites in the must Mechnikowia pulcherrima (Mp) On apple and in must (often high population) no development in anaerobioses Hanseniaspora valbyensys (Hv) - apiculate yeast On apple and in must, growth in must 1 to 2 weeks then decreases Sensibility to SO2 Saccharomyces uvarum (Su): fermentative yeast Bacterias and yeasts in ciders that can create off flavors Acetic acid bacteria (Acetobacter). Often described at Volatile Acidity (VA) which lends a vinegary taste to the cider Zymomonas mobilis (bacteria). off flavors  such as rotten banana, vegetal aromas. There may be a haze formation, high pressure in bottles, and excessive foaming Secundilactobacillus collinoïdes - lactic acid spoilage Brettanomyces anomala - Volatile phenol Begin with cidermaking best practices   As expected best practices for all fermentation including a spontaneous fermentation require Clean Fruit Hygiene in the cidery Temperature control Contact for Hugues Guichard email: mailto:hugues.guichard@ifpc.eu Mentions in this Chat New York Apple Camp July 28th-30th, 2023 Nordic International Cider Competition - Deadline for sending entries August 7th, The NICA competition takes place on September 6-9, in Riga, Latvia

Small, Medium and Large Scale options for Mechanical Harvesting of Apples Cornell University Associate Professor of Horticulture Gregory Peck Ph.D and Angry Orchard Head Cidermaker Joe Gaynor provide an in depth study of mechanical tools for orchards of all sizes. The presentation took place at CiderCon2023. No need to be an orchardist to enjoy this topic on mechanical harvesting of apples. Some of these same tools presented are also used in vineyards for harvesting grapes. Particularly interesting for cider fans and makers alike, is the debunking the myth that apples that fall on the ground can't be used to make cider. Dr Peck provides a great overview on this topic. Topics in the Mechanical Harvesting Presentation Comparison of Cider Economies of New York, US and UK Bush Cider Orchards - wide row spacing for mechanical harvesting Cumulative Net Present Value (NPV) using Outsourced Machine Harvesting (~$300/acre) Is it Profitable to Grow Cider Apples in NY? The cost of hand picking - Labor in America Cumulative NPV at Various Returns using Hand or Machine Harvesting Tree-row sweeping and picking up Harvesting off the ground How mechanical harvesting impacts the fruit Options for Small, Medium and Large scale operations Conclusions of this study Contact info for Gregory Peck eMail: gmp32@cornell.edu Listen to an early Episode 198: Becoming a Pommologist with Dr. Peck Mentions in this Chat Scott Farm Go Fund Me for apple lost due to 2023 Frost New York Apple Camp July 28th-30th, 2023

Antoine Marois is Tantalizing the Taste Buds of Cider Fans On a sloping hill on the east side of the picturesque village of Cambremer sits Domaine Marois. The lead up to the home is formidable with a long drive that leads to the barrel room and production facility for the Domaine. Behind the home is a majestic oak tree said to be over 300 years old. Antoine Marois in the barrel room at the Domaine It is here that Antoine and wife Marie Marois reside. Marie is a cider maker in her own right having taken the head cider maker position at Domaine Dupont. The grand house at Domaine Marois In this Chat Where is Domaine Marois located – here we talk about the area. – what to expect when visiting Antoine journey to become a cidermaker after working first with wine. What Antoine bring to cider that he learned from wine. Why haute tige (standard size) trees are important. How an orchard benefits from cows in the orchard Types of Cider Styles at Domaine Marois. Co-ferments Barrels toasted with apple juice wild yeast and cultured yeaast What to expect in the glass Visiting Domaine Marois Future plans for Domaine Marois 300+ year old oak tree at Domaine Marois Contact info for Domaine Marois Website: https://www.domaine-am.com/ Visit this Domaine Marois by appointment only The moped in the barrel room at Domaine Marois Mentions in this Chat International Cider and Perry Competition - Cider Museum | Herefordshire - see the list of winners here Recent episodes with UK cider maker Tom Oliver Ep 361 Is SO2 Necessary for Cider Making?  Ep 366 Acclaimed Cider with Minimal Intervention | Tom Oliver  Got a Question about yeast and cidermaking? Send in your questions to info@ciderchat.com for the upcoming episode with Fermentis