Cider Chat

The process where fresh pressed apple juice is transformed into a delightful alcoholic beverage (cider) happens during primary fermentation. Before we get into the steps here is a list of Equipment and Ingredients you will need for this stage of cidermaking. Fresh apple juice or cider (unpreserved) Yeast (wine or cider yeast recommended) Fermentation vessel (carboy or food-grade bucket) Airlock Sanitizer Racking cane or siphon Note book for writing down recipes and more Optional: metabisulfite (or campden tablets), pH test strips or pH meter, Yeast nutrient, pectic enzyme Some of the links on this page are affiliate links. Support Cider Chat at no extra cost to you! Simply click on this link to make your Amazon purchase, and Cider Chat will receive a small commission. Thank you for your support! Sanitization: Cleanliness is key! Ensure all your equipment is thoroughly sanitized to prevent any unwanted bacteria from spoiling your batch. Listen to Episode 382: Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment Got Juice? You can press you own apples or buy juice from a cider mill. Either way the the apple varieties you choose will significantly impact your cider’s flavor. Listen to Episode 381: DIY Cider Making for Beginners Steps for Primary Fermentation Step 1: Start taking notes on your apple blend, make of list of the varieties, and all the steps below. Step 2: Testing and Adjusting: Measure the specific gravity of your juice using a hydrometer. This step is crucial as it allows you to calculate the potential alcohol content. A standard, fresh apple juice blend, without any additional sugars, usually has a specific gravity in the range of 1.045 to 1.055. This range can vary based on the apple varieties and ripeness, but for our example today, let’s work with an Original Gravity (OG) of 1.050. Calculating Potential Alcohol By Volume (ABV) Use this simple formula to estimate the potential ABV (Alcohol by Volume). The formula is: Potential ABV=(OG−FG)×131.25 Where FG is the Final Gravity, which for a completely fermented cider, typically falls around 1.000 to 1.010. For our example, let’s assume that all the sugars are fermented, giving us a FG of 1.000. Potential ABV=(1.050−1.000)×131.25 = 6.56% With an original specific gravity of 1.050 and complete fermentation, you can expect your cider to have an alcohol content of around 6.5%. Remember, these numbers are estimates, and the actual ABV can vary based on several factors including the specific yeast strain used, fermentation temperature, and the specific blend of apples. Always use a hydrometer to get the most accurate readings throughout your cider making process Step 3: Check the ph of your apple blend Step 4: Add metabisulfite if using a cultured yeast. (Skip this step if your are fermenting with a wild yeast.) Wait 24 hours after adding metabisulfite before moving to Step 5 Step 5: (optional) Add Pectic Enzyme: This can help break down pectin in the juice, resulting in clearer cider. Add Yeast Nutrient: This provides additional nutrients to help the yeast thrive. Step 6: Pitch the Yeast Step 7: Airlock. Add water to airlock, put into bung hole and let primary fermentation begin! Duration of Primary Fermentation When using a cultured yeast, the primary ferment begins within 24 hours and typically last 1-2 weeks. When fermenting with wild yeast, the primary ferment may take longer and also last longer. The actual ferment may also appear less vigorous. Mentions in this Chat Mentions in this Chat Register now for CiderCon 2024 in Portland Oregon with pre-conference cider tours taking place on January 16, 2024. CiderCon kicks off officially on Wednesday January 17th. Tasting Seminars, Workshops and Keynote speakers for 3 straight days (January 17 -19, 2024) Follow Marcel at de Gerdeneer on Instagram @degerdeneer

Meet the Medlar Specialist Jane Steward, is the world’s premier Medlar Specialist. She is both a Grower and Producer of medlar preserves at Eastgate Larder, based in the UK, and the Author of the first ever book featuring Medlars called, “Medlars: Growing & Cooking Jane Steward picking Medlars at Eastgate Larder In this Medlar Chat What is a Medlar (pome, what do they look like) and why should we care about Medlars? What do they taste like? Where do Medlars grow and where did they come from?  Growing Medlars Medlar cultivars When to pick the fruit? A bit about how Jane came to be a “Medlar Specialist" The Book: Medlar, Growing and Cooking by Jane Steward (2023) published by Prospect Books Cider Chat recommends supporting your local independent book stores. Jane's Medlar book is available on Amazon and by purchasing via this link Cider Chat does receive a kick back as an affiliate of Amazon at no further cost to you. Eastgate Larder Products Medlar Jelly Medlar Chutney Medlar Gin Liqueur Contact the Jane Steward, The Medlar Specialist Website: https://www.eastgatelarder.co.uk/ Mentions in this Chat Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map Heritage Orchard Conference https://www.uidaho.edu/cals/sandpoint-organic-agriculture-center/conference

Dive into cider making essentials. Learn the importance of pristine equipment and elevate your cider's quality. Ideal for beginners starting their journey. Tip #1: Understanding the Importance of Sanitation Sanitation is critical to cider making, because apple juice creates an environment where not just our chosen yeast can thrive, but also where harmful microbes can multiply. And these microbes? They can spoil your entire batch of cider. "Spoiled" cider produces off-flavors when undesirable bacteria and wild yeast get a foothold. These undesirable flavors can range from a medicinal or band-aid taste, caused by phenolic compounds, to a buttery flavor from diacetyl, or even a vinegar-like sourness from acetobacter bacteria. And it is not just about taste. Some strains of bacteria, like those producing mycotoxins, can potentially be harmful when consumed. While most off-flavors might just lead to a cider that's unpleasant to drink, certain microbial contaminants can lead to digestive issues or worse. That's why we can't stress enough: Sanitation isn't just for taste; it's for your health and safety too. Tip #2: Cleaning vs. Sanitizing – Know the Difference To keep those unwanted microbes at bay, you need to both clean and sanitize. And while they might sound similar, they serve distinct purposes. Cleaning removes visible dirt and residues, whereas sanitizing goes a step further, eliminating or reducing those unseen, harmful microbes that can jeopardize your cider. Tip #3: Choosing the Right Sanitizer As you venture into cider making, you'll hear about various sanitizers. Two of the most popular ones are Iodophor and Star San. Both are effective, but they cater to different preferences. Personally, I lean towards Iodophor. It’s an iodine-based sanitizer, and when used at the correct concentrations, it doesn’t leave any taste or residue on your equipment. There are two big advantages especially for a beginner maker who is watching costs. Iodophor is less expensive than Star San. The amount need to clean a 5 gallon carboy is minimal, so a little bit goes a long way. However, be cautious about staining, as it can leave marks on plastics if left for too long.   Star San, on the other hand, is acid-based. It’s known for its foaming action, which can be useful as the foam can reach nooks and crannies you might miss otherwise. Some fermenters swear by the phrase "Don't fear the foam," because even if some foam is left behind, it won’t harm your brew.   Tip #4: Ensure you’re using your sanitizers correctly. Both Iodophor and Star San need to be diluted. With Iodophor, typically, a concentration of about 12.5 ppm, or roughly one teaspoon per 5 gallons of water, is recommended. It’s crucial to let your equipment sit in the solution for at least 2 minutes to effectively sanitize. If you are a beginner make sure to listen to the tips on this episode to hear swish the sanitizer around in a large glass carboy (5-6 gallons) without compromising your back. With Star San, the usual dilution is 1 ounce to 5 gallons of water. The contact time is also roughly 2 minutes. Always refer to the manufacturer's instructions to get the best results, as improper dilution can either render the solution ineffective or potentially harm your cider. Tip #5: Clean as You Go - true for Beginner and Seasoned Makers! Clean as you go, might sound trivial, but it’s a game changer. Whether you’re transferring juice, checking specific gravity, or bottling your finished cider, always clean and sanitize the equipment immediately after use. This practice will not only make the cleanup process less daunting but also reduce the risk of contamination in your next brewing session Equipment List for Cleaning Cider Equipment Solutions Brush for bottle Drying rack       Mentions in this Chat Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map Heritage Orchard Conference https://www.uidaho.edu/cals/sandpoint-organic-agriculture-center/conference

Cider Making at home is a Perfect DIY Cider Making is fun! If you are a cider fan who would like to try to make cider at home without breaking the bank, this episode is the perfect DIY project to start your journey. New to Cider Making? Start Here! In this episode: Simple steps to DIY cider at home Basics of how fermentation works Where to get your juice and what kind of apple juice should you use? Equipment needed to make a gallon of cider The process for both a “controlled” ferment and a wild ferment. What you will need – to turn a gallon of apple juice into cider Apple Juice By buying your equipment via the links provided, you provide a monetary kick back to Cider Chat at no extra cost to YOU. Win/Win  Fresh pressed apple juice Try to find a cider mill that has on hand fresh pressed juice! No cider mill close by? You can now buy apple juice via Amazon! This bottle below is 64 ounces so you will need 2 jugs  to make one gallon. A vessel for fermenting If you can buy a gallon of fresh pressed apple juice at the cider mill do so and use the jug that it can in to ferment. You will still need a drilled stopper and airlock. These two links will provide options for different size jugs. drilled stopper and airlock. You will still need a drilled stopper and airlock. These two links will provide options for different size jugs. drilled stopper and airlock. If you buy apple juice at a grocery store or online and you have to buy a few to make one gallon, you will need a single 1-gallon jug. Make sure to clean this jug before using. The final rinse should be hot, hot water. Leave enough room for the primary fermentation so that it doesn’t bubble over. Always be careful with glass The above jug is linked to Amazon (click on the 1-gallon jug link) and comes with all you need to start primary fermentation. It includes: Size #6.5 Drilled Stopper Airlock – The airlock helps release carbon dioxide (CO2) and keep out Oxygen!   Books on Cider Making The Big Book of Cidermaking Listen to episode 231: The Big Book of Cidermaking, with the Shockey The New Cider Makers Handbook, Claude Jolicoeur N/A       Mentions in this chat Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map Heritage Orchard Conference https://www.uidaho.edu/cals/sandpoint-organic-agriculture-center/conference  

The Architectural and Horticultural Endeavors of the Downing Brothers In the realm of landscape design and horticulture, few names are as revered as those of Andrew Jackson Downing and his brother, Charles Downing. Through their combined efforts, they have left a lasting imprint on the field, shaping not only the aesthetics but also the principles that govern landscape design and horticulture. Andrew Jackson Downing, born in 1815, was an iconic figure in 19th-century America, regarded as one of the founding fathers of landscape architecture. His visionary work combined aesthetics, functionality, and harmony with nature, aiming to create landscapes that were both beautiful and beneficial to the soul. He was an ardent advocate for the integration of parks and public green spaces in urban areas, emphasizing the profound impact such spaces could have on the well-being of the residents. Downing’s contribution to landscape design and architecture is noteworthy. He was the author of seminal works like "A Treatise on the Theory and Practice of Landscape Gardening," which became a cornerstone for American landscape architecture. This book illustrated his innovative and holistic approach to design, which involved harmonizing architectural elements with the natural environment. Kick off tour to New York Apple Camp and the Downings In this episode, audio snap shots from the Milton and Newburgh New York as part of the Downing tour, pre Apple Camp. Tour Itinerary: Assemble at Milton Historical Train Station 41 Dock Rd., Milton, NY 12547 Caravan to Crawford House Walk neighborhood and visit site of Andrew Jackson Downing former nursery Visit Downing Park Construction started in 1894 and the park was opened in 1897. 181-141 Carpenter Ave, Newburgh, NY 12550 Visit to  Cedar Hill Cemetery 5468 Route 9W North, Newburgh NY 12550 Andrew J. Downing (left) and and Charles Downing gravesite tall headstone to right at Cedar Hill Cemetery, Newburgh New York Lunch  Visit Klyne Esopus Museum with historian Louis Tiemperio 764 Route 9W, Ulster Park, NY 12487 Charles Downing: The Pomological Pioneer Charles Downing, the elder brother of Andrew, was an eminent pomologist, dedicating his life to the study of fruits, with a particular focus on apples. His extensive research and writings on pomology have contributed immensely to the understanding and classification of various fruit varieties, including a myriad of apple species. Charles worked meticulously to catalog different apple varieties, contributing significantly to the field’s growing body of knowledge. Charles’ work in pomology complemented Andrew’s landscape designs, merging form with function, aesthetics with agriculture. The duo often collaborated, creating designs that were not only visually appealing but also agriculturally productive, embodying a holistic approach to landscape architecture. Legacy Tragically, Andrew Jackson Downing’s life was cut short in 1852 when he died in a steamboat accident on the Hudson River. Despite his untimely death at the age of 36, his ideas continued to shape American landscape architecture, influencing the design of renowned public spaces, including New York's Central Park. Charles Downing continued his work in pomology after his brother’s passing, solidifying his reputation as a leading authority on fruit and helping to propagate a diverse array of fruit varieties across America. The intertwining legacies of the Downing brothers live on, their principles echoing in the gardens, parks, and orchards of today. Mentions in this chat Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

Delve deep into the realm of cider co-ferments Enjoy this special talk with a tasting of select co-ferments from New York Apple Camp 2023. Hear the discussion on techniques, flavors, and challenges. This talk was hosted by: Dan Pucci, author of "American Cider: A Modern Guide to a Historic Beverage" (2021) Matt Sanford, head cider and wine maker at Rose Hill Farm, New York Matt Sanford and Dan Pucci Co-ferments in this tasting All co-ferments where made in New York. Blackduck Cidery Aronius: A unique co-ferment consisting of 92% apples and 8% Aronia berries, which lend a tannic profile to the glass. Rose Hill Cider Pomme Cerise 2020 & 2021 blend | 20% sweet and sour cherries and 80% apples, this blend showcases the layering of flavors over time.  Mentioned - Rose Hill Cider Pearly Dewdrops' traditional fermented drink made of plums. Cuvée with carbonically macerated Shiro, Early Golden, Oblinaya and Satsuma plums, cherries and nectarines that are blended with apple cider. Dark, resinous fruit flavor buoyed by an invigorating sparkle, this is the stonefruit equivalent to a dry, rustic Lambrusco. Wild years fermentation, no filtering or fining, finished in bottle without additives. Metalhouse Cider Tazza: A co-ferment of cabernet Franc skins that resembles wine in smell and taste but lacks the body of wine. It exudes a piquette-like vibe, combining Macoun and Macintosh apple juice with the robustness of Cab Franc. Rose Hill Cider Chiffonner 9% ABV: Comprising 25% Roxybury Russet, 25% Ashmead's Kernel, and 50% Riesling. This unique blend sits in stainless for six months and another year in neutral oak. If it's not solely made of apples, Rose Hill labels it as wine.   When should a ferment be labeled cider vs. wine? Matt Sanford shares Rose Hill's approach. - The debate continues: Are co-ferments undermining cider? - Ultimately, co-ferments could serve as a gateway to the world of cider for many and with Matt making and other makers show casing what can be done, the future is bright for this category. For a comprehensive dive into co-ferments and to expand your cider palate, tune in to Cider Chat's Episode 379. Info on the speakers: Matt Sanford of Rose Hill Farm | New York Website: https://www.rosehillferments.com/ Dan Pucci - Co-author of American Cider: A Modern Guide to a Historic Beverage (2021) Mentions in this chat Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

Nothing Sharp about the "Ice Cider Queen" Eleanor Léger is affectionately dubbed the Ice Cider Queen by many followers, most notably this podcast. She founded Eden Specialty Cider in 2007, the year of the first harvest of apples for producing Ice Cider at Eden. The act of freezing apple juice outdoors during the coldest days and nights of the winter to extract the water and then ferment the pure juice into what is known as Ice Cider is not new to Canadian makers just over the border from Eden's Newport Vermont headquarters. What is unique however is how Eden marketed and refined the technique to showcase to this delectable aperitif/digestif to a wider audience. Eleanor Léger Many awards later, a White House serving, and a reputation for some of the best Ice Cider in the world is now par for the course for the Queen and her growing realm.  In 2023 Eden is celebrating its fifteenth anniversary and has broadening the business, based in the northeast kingdom of Vermont, to include to two additional brands, Shelburne Vineyard and Iapetus (a natural wine brand). In addition to her role as President and CEO of Eden Specialty Ciders, Eleanor is the Board President for the American Cider Association (ACA). This will be her last year in this role, when a new President is elected in 2024. In total she will have served 3 years in this position and discusses her goal during that time of making the Association accessible to makers who produce less than 25,000 gallons per year . In this Cider Chat: Focusing on Ice Cider as a niche within the niche of cider making From farmhouse to tasting room - the early days of Eden Specialty Ciders A perfect fit of cider, wine and brand expansion Educating people about dry cider Secret confessions from the Queen Work life balance Contact for Eden Specialty Cider, Shelburne Vineyard and Iapetus Wine Website: https://www.edenciders.com/ Mentions in this Chat Fermentis: SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map

Fable Farm Fermentory's Co-Evolution of Humanity & Apples The Apple Calls Us In | Fable Farm, VT started 15 years ago... In this episode hear how brother's Jon and Christopher Piana found their way to Fable Farm and how you can get there and enjoy the bounty too! Jon and Chris Piana Hear about: Jon and Christopher's back stories Fable Farm's Feast and Field Event Every Thursday during the summer months, enjoy out door music, food, cider, and more libations The Tasting Room The Cave - underneath the huge barn at Fable Farm The Quarterly Wine Club Foraging Apples Native yeasts, apples and grapes Co-ferments Jon opening bottle in Cider Cave  Ciders Walden (7.0%) A small amount of the 2020 pet nat, Emanation, was barreled down to age an additional two years. Emanation (6.0%) 1-2 years in the bottle, this cider has been rolling out since 2015 Apples from Walden Heights Nursery and Orchard   Fluxion (6.9%) made with a blend multiple vintages, which is a technique called Solera a spritz of maple syrup is added for the secondary fermentation. At this point the yeast remaining in the bottle get reinvigorated and create bubbles. (this is the short story of what is called traditional method) Farm Fermentory Barn sand Feast & Field event set up Contact for Fable Farm Fermentory Website: https://fablefarmfermentory.com/ Shop: https://fablefarmfermentory.com/shop/

Walden Heights Nursery & Orchard (WHNO) was created in 1997 This 22 acre farm with 8 acres of orchards on a hillside outside of Hardwick, Vermont in the town of Walden was founded by Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak. It is a sustainably managed and certified organic fruit orchard and nursery. In this chat, we speak with both founders as they share the history and current educational offerings at WHNO. Todd Parlo and Lori Augustyniak (w/ frozen jug of apple juice) at WHNO We also discuss how WHNO was awarded a SARE (Sustainable Agricultural Research and Educational Project) grant to study: The evaluations of apple cultivars for hard cider production in the Northeast. The goal of the project as Todd Parlo states it, is “To increase the pool of possibilities for a cider maker. And to get numbers on the constituents of juices of a variety of apple cultivars." 313 apple varieties from WHNO were tested during this project. Todd in the Walden orchard The study was completed and as of 2023 the results of the study can be reviewed via this link online. Walk about the orchard with both Todd and Lori at WHNO and hear about just a few of the 600 apples varieties grown here. Contact for Walden Heights Nursery & Orchard Website: https://waldenheightsnursery.com/about/ Mentions in this Chat Vermont flooding help - Go Fund Me for Henry's Hardware & Den in Cabot Fermentis: AC-4. SafCider™ AC-4 stands for Apple Crisp and is one of 3 SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map Athol Orchards visit this orchard in the Panhandle of Idaho

Cedar Hannan began selling his ciders branded as “Wildbranch” in 2020. He both forages apples and has a small orchard planted that he planted four years ago on his farm based in Craftsbury, Vermont. The ciders are both wild ferments and occasionally have cultured yeasts too. He sells locally at Vermont farmers markets and doesn’t have any immediate plans to increase his production which is currently at 900 gallons per year. Cedar Hannan The Low Carbon Footprint of Cider Cedar was originally looking at brewing as a retirement goal, but (as he notes in this episode) there are already a fantastic number of breweries in the surrounding area. In addition, the carbon footprint of beer is a bit larger than that of making cider at a local scale. Thankfully for us all, Cedar went with his hunch and is making Wildbranch Cider his full time gig, having quit his IT job. Each of the following is what Cedar looks for when foraging apples or pears for Wildbranch. Flavor  - aroma Tannin Acidity Sugar content Wildbranch Ciders tasted in the Episode The Spiney - Flagship cider 6.8% Try with cheddar cheese and grilled pork chop Golden Russet 8.3% Intense fruitiness, Little bit of cooked apple Perry Made with culinary pears - Barlett’s and Big Earl (a local variety) Perry Contact for Wildbranch Cider Website: https://www.wildbranchcider.com/ Mentions in this Chat Fermentis: AC-4. SafCider™ AC-4 stands for Apple Crisp and is one of 3 SafCider™ Yeasts for your cider! Visit Idaho and taste the ciders! More info at https://nwcider.com/map The Idaho University Extension Program - has a Fermentation Club - Find out about the July 29, 2023 Fermentation class