Cider Chat

Getting the right blend or single variety juice to make the perfect cider is part of every business plan for cideries both in the startup phase an ongoing. If you are not growing your own orchard, getting apple juice could be a real constraint – Thus these chats with two juice suppliers. In this Cider Chat on Juice Merchants At the 2016 CiderCon , two chats were recorded with global suppliers of juice. We wanted to find out what is happening both in the US and globally. Are orchards seeing the current cider market vital enough to plant trees that produce cider apples? What are the steps one would have to take to get juice from orchard to your cidery whether it is located in a tucked away island or in the middle of a city? You may find the answers in this episode surprising. And may they charge you up enough to let your local orchards or large apple suppliers know that “Yes we want cider apple juice! What are the top 5-6 varieties grown in Washington State? or 85% of the market. Red Delicious Galas Fuji Granny Honey Crisp Golden Delicious They Got Juice in the Global Market Contact for US supplier Fruit Smart Website: https://www.fruitsmart.com/ Contact for UK supplier Kiril- Mischeff Website: Kiril- Mischeff Group contact: Ian Marlow switchboard: 44(0)7718 519 113 Brook Farm Dorton Ayelsbury Bucks HP18 9NQ French varieties available via Kiril Mischeff Kermerrien Douce Moen Douce Coetliyen Bedann Marie Menard Frequin Rouge Benet Rougue Culinary Gala Granny Gloden Fuji Mentions in this Cider Chat Food Unwrapped Gluten free snacks by Vivian Lee at Lucky Rabbit Snacks is no longer in business as of 2025  Vivian Lee of Luck Rabbit Snacks a gluten free snack option and Ria of Cider Chat

John Bunker “Friend of Apples” John Bunker in this chat helps to trace the lineage in the US between cider apples and cidermakers. If you ever doubted whether you are on the right track with your cidermaking skills, Have no fear. Not only does John affirm even one’s most basic cidermaking skills, but our basic love of the apple. When I asked John what he would give himself as a job titled, he thought for a moment and then said, “Friend of Apples.” That friendship is helping apples throughout the US find their rightful place in history as they get identified one apple at a time. Cammy Watts and John Bunker John Bunker on making your own cider Take a clue from John when tasting your next cider or thinking about fermenting apple juice for the first time, “When it comes to my own cider, I’m just happy if I like it. Cuz it’s a long way till next year. All I want is to like it, I don’t care if you like it. I just want to like it.” John founded Fedco Trees in Main, is involved with the Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association (MOFGA) and the Out on the Limb Heritage Apple CSA. John Bunker’s Books He authored of Not Far From the Tree and The Art of Apple Detection We chat about Fedco’s early history with cider apples. How he met with Steve Wood of Farnum Hill Cider and Farnum Hills contribution to the cider tree nursery. It is a story of cider apple lineage in the US. John discusses meeting with Steve Wood of Farnum Hill Cider and Terry Maloney of West County Cider. You will crave a taste of West County Cider’s Redfield Cider after listening to John chat about the history of this apple variety and how Terry Maloney’s himself decided to experiment with the Redfield after a trip to Geneva. John says, “The Redfield is not an heirloom apple. It originated in 1940 or so. Most of our traditional American varieties are seedlings of unknown parentage.” What about American cidermakers and what he suspects is happening and will continue to happen? John says, “There are so many [US] cidermakers that don’t know about the English bitter sweets and may never know about them.” That he considers is a good thing and not something a cidermaker should worry so much about. Contact John Super Chilly Farm website Location:      167 Turner Mill Pond Road                        Palermo, Maine  04354 Email:            csa.outonalimb@gmail.com Want to hear more about West County Cider? Listen to Ep 002 Field Maloney, West County Cider, Massachusetts Notable mentions in this chat, that you might like to follow up on. Common Ground Fair in Maine, this is sponsored by MOGFA CiderDays, Massachusetts held the first weekend of November every year. 2015 was its 21st year. Claude Jolicoeur The New Cider Maker Hand Book Tom Burford Apple Historian in the US Just a few of the Apple Varieties mention Harrison Harrison Virgina Crab Redfield click here to see what Fedco offers Is a cross between Wolf River and a Russian variety, brought back to the US by a professor for North Dakota named Niels Hanson Niedzwetzkyana considered a red fleshed apples – inside the apple. Most apples we eat are white fleshed apples. Ben Davis

At Freedom Farm, cider is on! Chris Jackson who is new to cidermaking has an enthusiasm for fermenting that is contagious. At the Farm his family is working towards sustainability and he is blogging about it all, via his website FreedomFarmTV. Chris had shared his photos of his homemade Peach Cider on Twitter and I liked him immediately. Finding out that he was blogging about grafting fruit trees made it a natural fit for Cider Chat. In this Cider Chat Different types of grafts one could do to get a different variety of apples on an apple tree. Chris Jackson Grafting methods discussed: Cleft Grafting involved cutting off a tree at its trunk. Whip Grafting is less dramatic, as you would only cut off a limb the width of one’s pinky and then add on a new variety of your choosing. Grafting allows cidermakers to diversify an orchard quickly – say a 3 year period, versus waiting for a sapling to fruit. More on a number of different grafting methods via wikipedia Contact Chris Jackson at Freedom Farm TV YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@freedomfarmtv2980 Mentions in this Cider Chat Dave Wilson’s Nursery – How to graft a fruit tree

Kurant Cider co-owner and head cidermaker, Joe Getz’s business is expanding, just after one year into producing cider commercially in the eastern region of Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia. Besides making cider at Kurant, Joe is also the Vice President of the Pennsylvania Cider Guild, the commonwealth’s organizing body for cider producers and apple growers in PA. Cidermaker Joe Gertz Kurant Cider In this Cider Chat  Kurant ciders and why he calls them untypical American style ciders. Finding a home for a cider via one brewery to another. A new move to Perkasie, Pennsylvania into Free-Will Brewing Company is the newest location. In 2016, Kurant is looking to ferment 1500-2000 gallons of cider. They source local juice and are able to make cider year-round. Find their cider on draft. Kurant Ciders, on draft Daily 5.5% Earth 5.5% Bees 5.5% Tropic 5.5% Farm 5.5% Cafe’ 3.5% Spice 5.5% Contact info for Kurant Cider Kurant Cider has closed its doors  Mentions in this Cider Chat Pennsylvania Cider Guild website  http://www.rowanasherwinery.com/ ReAnimatro Coffee in Philidelphia, Pennsylvania Anthem Cider, Oregon – under new management and location Millstone Cider, Maryland – no longer open Ace Cider, California – under new management Maui Cider Company, Maui – no longer open Free Will Brewing Co. Teresa’s Cafe – Wayne Pennsylvania that Joe mentioned has a good selection of cider taps. Oregon Country Fair

Mechanical engineer and entrepreneur Ryal Schallenberger is helping cidermakers throughout the northwest by providing a mobile juicing service. He drives truck and trailer right in to the orchard and in 30-minutes is ready to start moving through 3 bins of apples an hour with a yield of 150-200 gallons of juice per hour. Northwest Mobile Juicing offered services to cidermakers for the first time in 2015 and there is no looking back. Ryal The Road to Mobil Juicing In 2016, Ryal is looking at expanding his portfolio of juicing trailers. This will require dedicated trailers in Washington, Oregon, Idaho and a fixed location in Montana. Ryal’s truck circa 2016 In this Cider Chat Ryal explains the juicing process from start to finish including the cost for starting up such a service. How it all began – It most likely started in Germany with innovation from the likes of Kreuzmayr Northwest Mobile Juicing provides: Pressing Pasteurization Packaging Inside a Mobile Juicing trailer Contact for Northwest Mobile Juicing Website: http://nwmobilejuicing.com/ Tell Ryal you heard his story on Cider Chat! Mentioned in this Cider Chat Montana CiderWorks Budwood Coop Juicing Systems in Canada is the official rep for the Austrian company Kreuzmayr where the mobile juicing equipment is made in Germany.

Who is Randall Grahm Randall Grahm has been rocking the world of winemaking for over 30 years. He began commercially selling wine under the Bonny Doon Vineyard label in 1983 when he opened the winery’s tasting room in the hills north of Santa Cruz, California in the village of Boony Doon. He authored Been Doon So Long : A Randall Grahm Vinthology (2012), and has the title and responsibilities of being President for life of Bonny Doon Vineyard. He is a four time winner of the James Beard Award. Randall Grahm Randall’s accomplishments in the world of wine are as unique as the man himself. •    Aptly titled the Rhone Ranger of California for his work with Rhone varietals. •    Pioneered the use of screw on caps on premium wines. Read the most recent list of Randall Grahm’s accolades. In this Cider Chat While I have long enjoyed Bonny Doon wines, I was in Santa Cruz to chat with Randall about Bonny Doon cider •    2013 Querry – 750ml is made with pear, apple and quince •    Winter Nélis Sparkling Perry Both of the above product are a bit past their time, though a bottle here or there may show up. If so do expect it to be a bit oxidized by 2024. A Grahm Update 2022 Grahm sold the Bonny Doon Brand in 2020. Listen to the most interview with Randall Grahm with Cider Chat on Episode188 recorded in 2019 at his new endeavor Popeluchum Follow Randall Grahm FaceBook: Popelechum (pronounced “Poh-puh-lou-shoom”) a 400-acre Estate, located just outside of the town of San Juan Bautista, CA. Randall Grahm on Twitter @randallgrahm Contact Bonny Doon Vineyard Winery and Office Website: https://www.bonnydoonvineyard.com/ Twitter: @BonnyDoonVineyd Mentions in this chat with Randall Eric Bordelet cidermaker inspiring Randall’s palate Didier Dagueneau, mentored Eric Bordelet Oregon based US Department of Ag- Germplasm Repository What is a medlar? And what does it mean to blet a medlar? Biodynamic Farming

Wooden barrels are so 2014. What is old is new again as Castle Hill Cider has brought to the states an ancient fermenting vessel that was used for over 7000 years. Qvevri or Kvevri, as it is called on this Virginia estate, is best known to winemakers in the Georgia Republic. Traditional Methods for Fermentation from the Georgia Republic Where is the Georgia Republic? It is in Europe and lies to the south of Russia and to the north of Turkey.The Georgia Republic has a sprawling cave monastery from the 12th century called Vardzia and a wine growing region of Kakheti. Find out more about Georgia’s Qvevri traditional winemaking. The Castle Hill Cider Kvervi upon arrived! In this Cider Chat with Cellar Master Geoff Robinson Castle Hill Cider imported 9 kvevris from the Georgia Republic Only one broke in transit A Kvevri ranges in size from 250 gallons to 60 and 75 gallons These clay pots are buried in the ground with only the opening accessible via a small chimney. A Honey glaze is often used inside the pot Castle Hill Cider Makers Geoff and Stuart Madany Placing the Castle Hill Cider Kvervi Kvervi ready to be buried   Contact Info for Castle Hill Website: https://www.castlehillcider.com/ Address: 6065 Turkey Sag Road, Keswick, Virginia USA 22947 Mentions in this Cider Chat Find out more about the Albemarle Pippin Apple via Thomas Jefferson Monticello Link to Cider Guide and head to Virginia and follow the Cider Trail? The Cider Swag Contest is open till January 16, 2016. Castle Hill Update: Both Geoff and Stuart have moved on from the cidery and as of 2025 the Kvevris at this site are not being used currently to make cider. 

Utrecht cider importer Margot Sanderse brings in ciders from the UK and Wales via her mobile bar and online shop Het Ciderhuis. She is an entrepreneur who is touting cider to the Dutch and slowly helping transform their palate. Margot Sanderse | Het Ciderhuis Utrecht is between 30-40 minutes from Amsterdam, and is a bustling arts city. Bars that serve cider mentioned by Margot Cafe de Zaak Cafe de Rat Den Haag a.k.a. The Hague Den Haag is best known for its International Court of Justice, and because of the presence of so many international embassies, it is also a hot spot for food and drinks. Margot recommended in The Hague the following 2 bars serving cider. Fiddler Cafe de Paas Contact Info Margot Sanderse |Het Ciderhuis Website: https://www.hetciderhuis.nl/over-het-ciderhuis/interviews-artikelen-het-ciderhuis/interviews-artikelen-het-ciderhuis-2/ Mentions in this Cider Chat The Club de Keet where this recording took place is no longer open – Massi is still in Amsterdam and the big hare that was this dive bars namesake: was named Keet Find out more about Beer Cider Leonard Koningswik cidermaker of Beer Cider CIDER Act passed December 18, 2015 Cider Investment and Development through Excise Tax Reduction (CIDER) Act (H.R. 600) was introduced by Representatives Earl Blumenauer democratic and Chris Collins. a republican from New York state’s 27th congressional district and democratic Senator Charles Schumer of New York who sponsored the CIDER Act (S. 1459). Which goes to show you that Cider unites both major parties in the US. Woot woot! And we all know that a good chat is time well spent. Do know that this is a Tax legislation thing – that business minded people work towards to help reduce the tax burden. Prior to this Act cider that was carbonated by the cidermaker or  naturally (as in bottle conditioned) could be taxed at the champagne rate of 3.30 or 3/40/gallon if the carbonation level was too high. Yikes! Imagine being a small batch cidermaker and finding the most delicious cider that you have ever made is now going to be so expensive that only us nerd cider drinkers will buy it. so the CIDER Act has increased the carbonation level for hard cider! woot woot And it now includes pears in the definition of “hard cider” I am not sure what the pears think about that – I think – apple trees and pear tree could give a hoot about our human taxations.   And now cider is has boosted it’s alcohol by volume (ABV) to surpass 7%. It now has the range of at least 1% and 8.5%. Lets just hope the big chemical companies don’t get involved and start making apple tree hybrids on steroids that boost sugar content. In all it was a boom for cider in the US. Personally, I like both still and sparkling cider. It is all good. And quite exciting. It is now up to the cidermakers to run with this new Act and continue to grow as an industry overall And for cider consumers to let the cidermakers know what you want. I am sure as the new year and years to come we will be re-visiting his topic. In all it is a new playing field and quite exciting.

Who is Angry Orchard? Angry Orchard is the #1 cider brand in the US and there is a very good reason why it holds this coveted place. Undoubtedly, being a subsidiary of Boston Beer Company means connections to Jim Koch’s brewery empire a.k.a. Samuel Adams Boston Lager. But to think that Angry Orchard is merely tapping into the US cider mania would be short sighted. yes – this is exactly how the Angry Orchard entrance looks – no photoshop! Back History on Angry Orchard Boston Beer Co. has been researching cider since the early 2000s with the help of Alan Tringham, a retired cidermaker from the European brand known as Bulmers. I had the opportunity to meet Grant Wood from Boston Beer Co. who was working with Tringham at the time to “create the perfect cider for the American public”. They both stopped by my cidermaking workshop at CiderDays back in 2004. Hoo wee! Imagine presenting cidermaking to the likes of the now late Alan Tringham. Angry Orchard Inovation Center and Cider House, Walden NY the first cider brand for Boston Beer Co. was known as Hard Core. That brand was shelved, and a few moments later we were seeing Angry Orchard commercials during the Super Bowl! Bingo! The new brand was taking hold with its flagship cider Crisp Apple. Take note cidermaker wannabees….to think that a brand such as Angry Orchard would sit on it laurels with what many would consider an introductory cider made to entice a public that is still wrangling with cider is not time well spent. Ryan Burk & Anna Hasan Angry Orchard led by newly minted Head Cidermaker Ryan Burk and Assistant Cidermaker Anna Hasan is and will continue to move mountains in Ciderville! Listen to this episode and hear Ryan’s story and what we can all expect from Angry Orchard. He and Anna have already started pushing the envelope with the likes of Stone Dry (5.5%) a new cider now available in six packs. You have to visit the Walden location to taste select drafts that may or may not make it into the mass market. What to expect at the Angry Orchard Tasting Room? A very large, yet inviting room with windows that overlook the orchard. If the weather is right, there is outdoor seating and a gas lit fire pit. Each visitor of drinking age, receives one token that can be used for (3) complimentary samples in the tasting room. Cider styles available include the flagship cider, Crisp Apple (5%) and several other core offerings, as well as ciders exclusive to the tasting room. Such as the house cider – Farm Cider – an unfiltered cider made with apples from the orchard’s 2014 harvest. In this Cider Chat Listen to what Angry Orchard is looking for the future. Cidermaking trends Cider Act How are they playing with the Cider House Series? What will they do with their Ice Cider this coming winter? How does terroir factor into the Angry Orchard cider house and what is their soil profile? Classic misconceptions about Angry Orchard. Contact Info for Angry Orchard Website: https://www.angryorchard.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Farnum Hill – Steve Wood Aaron Burr – Perry Reverend Nate New York Cider Association Ria’s book Recommendation on the Golden Gate Park’s Boss Gardener 

Les Vergers de la Colline, Quebec Now Cidrerie Milton This epsiode was recorded in person with the team at that time of this Quebec based cidery. Note: The name of this cidery has changed since the time of this recording. This was in part due to the the difficulty of pronouncing Les Vergers de la Colline. So the owners took on the town name and shorten it all to Ciderie Milton! I, Ria, had the pleasure of interviewing four guys from Quebec who are passionate about cider making. Quebec is a french speaking province so were quite kind in helping each other and helping me understand what they are making at Les Vergers de la Colline. I know you will enjoy this Cider Chat! Cider making Team Les Vergers de la Colline of Quebec Canada Les Vergers de la Colline opened in 2003 and is now called Ciderie Milton Ciderie Milton’s team The team is headed by Marc -Antoine Lasnier, whose family owns this Quebec cidery. Marc’s family has been growing apples since 1926. They made cider during the Canada’s prohibition and it should be noted that in 1920 beer, wine, beer and all alcohol was legal. Only cider was prohibited. Not until the early 1970’s did cider become legal. Marc -Antoine Lasner You can listen to the story behind the prohibition of cider as Marc tells it. Les Vergers de la Colline produces ciders that range all the way up to 11%. Below is a photo of the ice cider that we drank during this chat and discussed. Benoit Gosselin Piette Hugo Papineau Jonathan Fontaine Quebec ciders from Ciderie Milton Cidre Bouche Contact for Ciderie Milton Website: https://cidreriemilton.com/