Cider Chat

Austin Eastciders is helping to make Austin Texas a cider mecca in a land where the apple root faces harsh growing conditions. Aaron Anderson is the R&D Coordinator at this growing cidery. He sat down for a chat with me at CiderCon2016 in Portland Oregon during the United States Association of Cider Makers conference. The head cidermaker is Preston Nickens. Aaron Anderson Austin Eastciders opened in 2011 and is distributed in cans and draft throughout Texas and into Oklahoma, New York and New Jersey. The cider is selling so fast that come June of 2016 they will be moving into a much larger production facility. Austin Eastciders ciders available Texas Honey Cider, with wild flower honey sourced from Texas 5% Original Dry Cider 5% An English cider called Gold Top was produced but at that point Texas cider drinkers weren’t ready for a bittersharp/sweet cider. That cider is still being produced, but is barrel aging. There is also a hopped cider made with full cones. The juice from the cider is sourced from the UK, France, Italy, and the Pacific Northwest. It is easy to taste the bittersharp and bittersweet apples in each can that was tried during this interview. Contact for Austin Eastciders Website: https://austineastciders.com

Keeving Made Simple, but oh so Dandy at Worleys Cider Neil Worley’s makes cider in the area of Great Britain called Somerset. Climb the high hill at the farm and your can see the Bristol Channel. It is a remote location by UK standards and the soil at the farm is only 3 inches in depth before you hit limestone. Thus, instead of growing apples at the farm, the apples are brought up the hill from the orchard at the old Taunton Cider Mill. Neil Worley Meeting Mr Worley Neil traveled to Portland Oregon in February 2016 to speak at the United States Association of Cider Makers annual event called CiderCon, which is were I caught up with him to chat about the cider making technique called “keeving”. What is Keeving? It is a process, whereby the nutrients of the sweet cider (before fermentation) are removed from the juice. During this process the nutrients float to the top of the juice forming a brown cap that Neil says looks like a “brown omelette”. The brown cap is punctured and the juice is rack over into a new container to then be fermented into cider. As there are no nutrients in the juice that was keeved, the yeast will not digest all the sugars in the juice thus leaving a refreshing cider that has a dry yet sweet flavor profile. Worley’s Cider has won numerous awards and Neil is highly regarded for his cider making. Worleys Special Reserve – Keeved Cider If you would like to visit Worley’s, there is a good chance that they can be found at a local fair or outdoor market on the weekends. In essence, try to set up the visit ahead of time. Contact for Worley’s Cider Website: http://www.worleyscider.co.uk/ The full transcript of this chat with Neil including all the details he shared on keeving is available for patrons of Cider Chat. Go to Cider Chat Patreon Page and find our how you can receive your copy of this informative chat with Neil discussing the technical aspect and tricks of keeving. Thank you to Cider Chat’s founding sponsor “Cider Cellars Importers” – importing UK cider to the US! Listen to Linda’s promo in this chat as she pronounces each apple variety.

Jim Wallace is a cheese maker and cheese tech a.k.a the "Cheese Guru" at New England Cheesemaking Supply in Ashfield Massachusetts. When not helping the cheese world sort through problematic cheeses, he teaches classes at his home...in his cellar where he also ferments wine, beer, and cider and has his beloved cheese cave. Our goal for this chat was to have a cider and cheese pairing and discuss a baseline approach for discerning between the right cheese to choose for a pairing. Find the full show notes to this chat at ciderchat.com Go to Episode 25 Jim Wallace | Cider Pairing with a Cheese Maker at https://ciderchat.com/podcast/025-jim-wallace-cheese-maker/ Follow Cider Chat on Twitter @ciderchat

Leonard Koningswijk owner/cidermaker of Bear Cider in the Netherlands is turning his country towards cider one palate at a time. The idea was sprouted at his family home in the rural village of Beerze on the border of Germany. (Beerze means bear in Dutch.) Like many cider folk he saw the bounty of apples laden on the trees and thought something must be done with those apples. Via the internet he learned how-to press apples and make cider and took a course with Peter Mitchell on cidermaking.  Leonard Koningswik cidermaker of Bear Cider He knew his country was great for growing apples but there are not any large volume of cider apples being grown. Note this is changing as the demand for cider increases, most notably south east of Amsterdam where UWE Betuwe Cider has an orchard.  The cider revival is slowly gaining speed in Amsterdam, Utrecht, Den Haag, and Rotterdam. Listen to 002: Wouter Biljs | CiderCider, Rotterdam and 010-Margot Sanderse | Het Ciderhuis, Utrecht and see how two importers are making craft cider cool again. In this Cider Chat How Leonard makes cider, by importing apple juice from Herefordshire, England The lack of cider apples in the Netherlands The uphill push to educate the public on the virtues of drinking cider. Launched as Beer Cider in 2012, the name has been changed in 2016 to Bear Cider. Leonard and I discuss the branding of his product, which startup cidermakers should find particularly interesting. Ciders Sprankelende Nederlandse Appelcider 5.3% Sprankelende Nederlandse Appelcider 5.3% corked Stille, Vintage 2014 “Single Variety” Dabinett appelcider 8% India Wheat Cider, Collaboration with Brouwerij (brewery) Het Uiltje 6.5% Bear Cider cidermaking process Imported 350 hectoliters of apple juice from UK in 2015 – equals 9,246.02 gallons Shipped in a 1000 liter IBC, which are a square plastic vessel Ferment right in the IBC Netherland Cider Tourist – Landing at Schiphol airport Bear Cider in Albert Heijn’s right in Schiphol Airport Located right outside the terminal is Citizen M hotel, which serves Bear Cider In Amsterdam, Appels en Peren, new retail cider store by Rembrandtplein. – de Sterk go via the tram from Centraal Station which has a great selection of ciders and beer Contact Info for Bear Cider Website http://beercider.nl/ Address: De Boomgaard 11-1 1243HV ‘s-Graveland Telephone: 035-887 52 22

Alec Steinmetz, Will Correll and Matthew Meyer are sharing their story of starting an urban cidery. This is Part 1 of what will be an ongoing story of the start-up Buskey Cider of Richmond, Virginia.  The cidermaking tanks arrived in February 2016. 5 wine tanks 4 brewing tanks, which are conical They pitched the yeast for Buskey's first cider on March 16, 2016 2 - 30 barrels tank pitched with one strain 4- 15 barrel tanks all have different strains 3- 4.2 barrel tanks for specialty ciders Opening date is expect in late April when they hope to be serving  the first cider to the public. They are working towards a 20-24 day production time. Full show notes and Alec's startup tips at https://ciderchat.com/podcast/alec-steinmetz-buskey-cider-virginia/  

Getting to cider for Gregory Hall, was one part luck and a whole lot of beer. When his father John Hall founded the Chicago based Goose Island Brewery in 1988, it took only 3 years before Greg was at the helm of brewing.Twenty years later in 2011 the brewery would be sold to Anheuser Busch-B InBev. The 2011 sale set Greg free to move on to his next great adventure - Virtue Cider.  I was curious to ask Greg about what a cidermaker should consider for the long run if they want to parlay their business to the next level as father Hall's did with Goose Island and Greg did with Virtue only 3 years later again - this time selling Virtue's majority stake to A-B InBev. Obviously one must have a good product and as Greg tells it he looked to the European cidermakers for inspiration and direction.   "I went with my laundry list of question that I was use to asking at breweries,most of which were fairly technical and found out very quickly that I was asking the wrong questions.Traditional cider making is a multi generational effort. They sure as heck weren't measuring PH in 1830's"  Find the full show notes to this chat at ciderchat.com searc for episode # 021

Bill Bradshaw is a photographer, an author of three cider books and consider by many to be a Cider Ambassador for UK ciders.  I met with Bill at the United States Association of Cider Makers annual conference in Portland Oregon in February 2016. Later that same day, Bill was to present an overview of UK ciders to the conference attendees.   For this chat I asked Bill to give us a peek on some of his highlights for the OMSI presentation and to discuss what a cider tourist might find or where to go when seeking ciders in the UK. Find the full show notes at https://ciderchat.com/podcast/021-bill-bradshaw/ Follow on Twitter @ciderchat

Curtis Sherrer is barreling aging single variety apples at Millstone Cellars. An old grist mill dating back to the 1850s houses the Tasting Room. “We will have 50 barrels and then settle on 15 to pick from to blend for that one cider that will be bottled” Curtis Sherrer, Millstone Cellars “If you are looking to save money, all you need is a barrel. You don’t need chillers.” Millstone’s Cider Making Instead of pressing multiple apples and creating the sweet cider that will then be fermenting – Curt keeps apple varieties separate until he finds the perfect balance At the “Old Grist Mill” they use a cloth press on site that dates back to 1850s. Says Curt of the goal behind choosing to become a cidermaker, “Let’s take apple juice and see how close we can get to making a chardonnay” “No one knows what the Jonathan apple variety can do at different maturity levels or what it can do on different yeasts. So we will have 20 barrels of Jonathan with different yeasts. We used beer yeast, cider, wine, sherry yeast and now we have come down to four primary yeasts.” Curt’s Recommendations Look at bending much like ones does with spices and ingredients: See what will make the most savory cider. The learnings garnered from making cider from single variety apples, until the final blend are abundant. You will learn in this chat about: How maturity ( of the apple and cider) matters How does maceration change it? Maceration is what happens when you wait to press the pomace (crushed apples), letting the pomace sit for a bit, like 24 hours to 2 days or even longer. Learn the taste differences between free run apple juice where the pomace is barely pressed versus crushing and pressing immediately. What can you expect at the Millstone Cellars Tasting Room? Up to and over 7 ciders, cysers ( cider fermented with honey) and meads. Ciders made with locally sourced hops, baby ginger, peaches, pears, cherries, and spice bush. Take a tour and have a tasting (only on weekends). Millstone serves their cider on tap making it a great stop to bring your lunch or early dinner and have a glass out on a picnic table. Start up Cidery Tips: Put time into your Cider Name Package design Think Trade Marking your brand and your cider name. 3 Main Millstone Ciders If you visit expect more ciders on hand as they have seasonals and new ciders they are working on continually. Farmgate – made with “pure apples” meaning nothing is added Hopvine – blend up base cider and then add hops and might add a bit of honey or cryo-cider (frozen cider) Gingeroot – made with organic baby ginger and local blueberry honey Not so much what the winemaker or cidermaker does. It’s what kind of fruit comes into the door. If you are getting quality fruit coming in through the door, It’s yours to screw up. Contact info for Millstone Cellars Update: Millstone Cellars is Closed Addrees of the mill – 2029 Monkton Road – Monkton, Maryland Mentions in this Cider Chat Martha Stewart: The link to this article is no longer current but it was titled “Hard Cider Like You’ve Never Seen It Before: Millstone Cellars“ Edinburgh Cider Review a podcast hosted by two gents discussing ciders that they are drinking and more. No new episodes listed since September 2015 Pennsylvania Cider Guild

Neil MacDonald is a self described “man of the soil”. He co-launched Orchard Pig Cider in 2004. His specialty is apple growing and the primary process of the cidermaking at Orchard Pig Cider. This recording was taped with Neil at CiderCon 2016 in Portland Oregon. Neil MacDonald, Orchard Park Farms and Orchard Pig Cider The Path to the Orchard Pig Cider Neil was granted a scholarship from the Nuffield Farming Scholarship Trust which has helped him hone in on his apple growing passion and helped him travel around the world.  Neil uses what is a called a “Bush Orchard” in the UK, which works well with the mechanics of harvesting within high density orchards for a maximum harvest. What is a bush tree? Free standing root stock. A 111, 106, or M25. Neil’s farm is currently doing some trials with an A2, B118, P18 root stock. Anything smaller than a 111 or 106 are not strong enough to handle the mechanical harvesting. The trees are growing 18 feet tall….And they join up like a high hedge. The width of the row is 18 feet wide. If you limit the row size it will limit the use of mechanical harvesting. The cost structure for maintaining this type of orchard Neil says, “Is considerably less than a high density orchard.” Neil discusses what is required when putting in a 100 acres of apple trees per man with his system of orchard production. 1 man 1 tractor 1 sprayer 1 harvester 1 mechanical pruner All this equals – extensive commodity producers! The two main objectives for growing fruit Price – the farmer receives in payment for the crop yield Yield – the amount of fruit that can be grown. From this vantage the orchardist looks at the consumer, which in this case is the cidermaker and meets exactly what the cidermaker looking for: Apple juice quanity Acid Sugar Tannin Mechanical Harvesting in a nutshell The process is broken down a bit in this chat as follows… but really Ciderville it is best to listen to Neil to get the full scope of what he is describing.) Allow the fruit to fall on the ground, which insures that the fruit is fully ripe, the sugars are fully turned and the starches are gone are from it. Allowing the apples to fall on the ground encourages the natural yeast for the first ferment. Early fermentation comes from the yeast in the orchards. The secondary from the fabric of the building where it is fermenting, rather than using cultured yeast. Fun cider Facts discussed in this Cider Chat: Only 1% of alcohol by volume and all pathogens are gone. So why not allow apples to drop on the ground and then harvest? Neil chats: Rats in cider? And the not uncommon addition of a leg of mutton into a cider, for a short period of time. Neil’s notes on cider makers here in the US? They are coming from it as either a brewer or winemaker and as such approach it from 2 completely different paths. Winemakers are very clean stylistically Brewers approach it from the hop it up perspective. US cidermakers have a lot to learn from our neighbors to the east and chats like this one with Neil MacDonald will certainly help us more forward to create a sustainable cider trade. Orchard Park Farms Website: Orchard Pig Cider Hornblotton, Somerset England, BA4 6SF orchardparkfarms.com Contact neil@orchardparkfarms.com let him know you heard about this internship via Cider Chat Apprenticeship at Orchard Park Farms go to 39:40 minutes in on this podcast to listen to the description of the intern position. It ends roughly at 41:30. Qualities: 25 or older Grafter scientific background is a good quality to have responsible for Orchard trials. Neil quotes I loved from this chat: Make a good quality apple cider. If it is good it will stay. If it is poor you will lose sales and it will fall away. Quality and drinkability…I use quaffability a lot. Every orchard is a permanent experiment. Sponsor of this Cider Chat Are you thirsty for some UK ciders? Check out Press Then Press for US shipping. Cider Cellars has now closed their on line shop. But at Cider Chat Central we will never forget their support for Cider Chat when it first launched! Thank you Cider Cellars for Sponsoring this episode with Neil MacDonald! Mentions in this Cider Chat For Sale: Mobile Juicing Trailer – this trailer is long gone since this episode was posted. Keep listening for more news from Ciderville!

You might know Darlene Hayes by her blog All into Cider. There you can find some quick cider cocktail lore and recipes. Yes, Cider Cocktails are hot…again! That’s right, again! Mixing spirits with cider has been favored by farmers to royalty alike (okay, not sure about the royalty, but I know my gramps used to love to age his cider in a bourbon barrel) ever since cider and spirits have been pouring. Yes, Ciderville we are both going to become a bit more “in the know” with this special chat with Darlene Hayes on how to make cider cocktails. Darlene Hayes measures out the bourbon for the Stone Fence cider cocktail New Cider Books By Darlene Hayes Author Darlene Hayes has captured the “spirit” of a cocktail made with cider in her book aptly called “Cider Cocktails, Another Bit of the Apple” (2015) Spotted Cat Press, Canada. The 2nd Edition of this book is now available! Go to this link to purchase! 2nd edition of Cider Cocktails The book provides an historical overview of classic drinks like the Stone Fence, a recipe coalling for bourbon with a semi dry cider. Darlene and I chatted as she mixed both a Stone Fence and the Gin Gin Jenny (gin, ginger cider and lime) when we met up in Portland Oregon at CiderCon in 2016. Darlene made us the perfect cocktails for a good cider chat…or it is cider cocktail chat? Cider Cocktails also has a chapter of recipes for Appetizers to serve with your cocktail. And, at the end of the book she included, “Basic Recipes”. Here you will find her take on Simple Syrup, a syrup used in making cocktails and Crème fraîche, a spread used in many a yummy appetizer and more. This book is a recommended read for anyone taking the United States Association of Cider Maker “Level 1 Course in Cider Certification. And with all the new cider bars opening around the country, most notable The Northman in Chicago expected to open later this month – this is a great handbook for bartenders, cider bar owners and anyone looking to expand their cider horizons. A slice of orange peal is squeezed into the Stone Fence cider cocktail Contact info for Darlene Hayes Website: allintocider.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Cider Bars Wassail,  New York City – now closed The Northman, Chicago – the original location is closed but there is now the Northman Beer and Cider Garden which is open once the weather in Chicago gets nice! It is along the River Distilleries Spirit Works Distillery, California Neversink Spirits, New York Clear Creek Distillery, Portland Oregon now known as Hood River Distillery Apple Country Spirits, New York – now known as Rootstock Cider & Spirits Saint George Distillery, California Sonoma County Distilling Company, California