Cider Chat

Sam Reid is based in Tasmania, a state of Australia. He is a partner at Willie Smith’s Cider and President of Cider Australia. Sam Reid Cider in Australia Tasmania is what Sam calls the smallest state of Australia…which by the way mainland Australia is equal in size to the continental United States. It was colonized by the English who used it in the 1700’s as a penal colony. It is also in the southern hemisphere so the apple growing region is found in the south on both Australia and Tasmania. It use to be well known as the Apple Isle a claim to fame that I suspect will in time return full on. Dr Tim Jones Willie Smith’s cider maker Apples and Cider Making in Australia There are 30 apple growers in Tasmania. When asked what would best describe Australian cider, Sam said the overall cider style for the country is a New World commercial style, with fresh apples, filtered (crossed flowed filtered), carbonated and a bit sweet to please the current customer palate – with an overall ph of 3.6. Whereas for Tasmania ciders Sam says, “There isn’t one specific style”. Willie Smith’s where Sam is the CoFounder/Managing Director they tend towards the French Style of cidermaking, with less emphasis on the acid. Willie Smith’s ciders are also unfiltered and oak aged and note that they do have special release ciders in 750 ML bottles which makes a visit to their Tasting Room (The Apple Shed) even more worthwhile. Andrew and Ian Smith How to get to Tasmania? Take an hour and half flight from Melbourne Take an overnight ferry from Melbourne to the port in Devon. You can take car on the ferry. Spreyton Cider is the first cidery that you can get to once off the ferry. Head south into Cole Valley and look for Red Brick Road Cider and Two Metre Tall Farmhouse Ale and Cider in Launceston. Lost Pippin cider, Pagan Cider, Frank’s Cider and so much more Click on the link to Tasmania Cider Trail and put it on your plans for a perfect cider holiday Huon Valley Mid Winter Festival July 15-17, 2016 The Apple Shed at Willie Smith’s All of Willie Smith’s ciders are produced on site. The farm itself is 150 acres (40 hectares). Willie Smith’s Apple Shed Willie Smith’s is 30 minutes south of Hobart, Tasmania. Hobart is the capital of this Australian state. The actual region where Willie Smith’s is located is the Huon Valley. Contact info for Willie Smith’s Website: https://www.williesmiths.com.au/our-story Mentions in this Cider Chat Cider Australia Support ciderGoingUP by joining the Cider Chat Patreon page  

“There is always something going on” say Nat West at his Reverend Nat Taproom in Portland Oregon. Nat West in the 3500 square foot Packing Room In this Cider Chat Ria met with Nat before she headed over to CiderCon2016 later that same day. This chat provides a tour of the taproom and production space. Discussed are some of his crazy ass fermentations that aren’t cider, but does show Nat’s passion for – Fermenting! The facility has both a Taproom that shares space in the front room which is 3500 square feet. You can hear the cider workers in the background bottling and getting the site ready for a 100-person bus tour that was rolling in later that same morning. Nat chats on how many of the Pacific Northwest cidermakers use Juice from: Hood River Juice and Fruit Smart We discussed non cider fermentations: Tepache – a fermented pineapple drink Kumiss Mongolian Milkwine And the Fermented Lamb Leg Cider made with an 8-pound lamb leg. Listen to 019: Neil MacDonald | Orchard Parks Farm, UK discuss how the Brits have had meat added into ciders in the past and his mention of lamb legs. The production area at Rev Nat’s is directly behind the Tasting Room The large window door rolls up letting the TapRoom open to the outdoors The well worn forklift in the packing room Reverend Nat’s Hard Cider Update Closed in September of 2023 after twelve years in business Support more Cider Chat by becoming a Patron today - go to the Cider Chat Patreon page and join! 

Tom Oliver shares his approach to hopped cider and the best of what the US and UK have to look forward to in the cider market. What he saw in US hopped ciders back in 2013 ignited his desire to try his hand at adding hops to cider to his bittersweet cider. He worked with 3-different cider blends and Cascade hops, and in turn “ramped up” the bittersweet element to give a bit more of the drying finish.  The hop from the Czech Republic Kazbet was also used and provided a very different profile and balance to the Cascade. I had a chance to taste his At The Hop pictured below and it was delicious. What makes cider unique? “Sharing our techniques or what some might consider trade secrets.” Tom’s “Free suggestion” for a cider that will conquer the world??? “If you make a bottle fermented cider with Wickson Crab Apple and put it in small bottles with just enough sweetness to balance it out – it will be the perfect celebratory wedding drink! What does a US cider offer that is different than the UK cider? The “massive fruit aroma” which helps compensate for the absence of the bittersweet in the US. Tom Oliver at CiderCon2016 Mentions in this Cider Chat The implications of the CiderAct. Concentrated juice’s use in cidermaking Real cider and  a probable definition of craft cider Who can call them self a craft cidermaker? What is Good Cider? When you smell it, it does this… When you taste it, it does that… and overall this is what you get with it… Tom’s Tips on the Business of Making Cider Look carefully and set your goals. Is it to make cider and perry or to make money? AND -Thank goodness for the course he took with Peter Mitchell in 1999 on principles and practices, so that he knew fully what he was getting into. “I get no satisfaction from huge amounts of money. What I do get satisfaction from is knowing that you have enough, to make the best cider you can. If you are making the best cider, you see the reaction of people tasting the cider.” Contact Info for Oliver’s Cider and Perry Website: https://oliversciderandperry.co.uk/ Thank you to our Founding Sponsor Cider Cellars Importers  of real cider from the UK – Cider Cellars is not longer in business – but we are keeping this up for historically mapping the history of Modern Day Cider. Support this Podcast via the Cider Chat Patreon Page  

When John Bunker talks or teaches Apple Identification he doesn’t begin with the apple. He always goes back to the root of the tree…unless it is one of the Eric Clapton apples, i.e., you immediately recognize it as a variety that you all ready know. John provides a great metaphor for recognizing apples that you have learned to instantly know, much like you would a riff from your favorite musician. The core of the issue is your knowledge base of beginning to recognize key attributes that stand out during the apple identification process. Cammy Watts and John Bunker Where to start with Apple Identification? John says it, Begin by learning at least 24 varieties Two to learn first: Macintosh Cortland “You want to obsess over a Dingaling Sweet, not a Mac or Cortland apple.” Is it a seedling tree? When asked: How old it the tree? John says, “I need to see the tree to determine if it is a seedling.” You learn what are the attributes or the characteristics of the tree Even a hundred years later you can see the graft. Determining the age in Apple Identification Trunk diameter. Is it hollow. All old trees are hollow, so you can’t do a core sample. “ “They are coreless” Is there a pattern? Are they in rows? Can you see how they were planted? What was the distance between the trees? When you are finally ready to look at the fruit you have eliminated what it could be. Can you test the DNA of an apple?  The collection of DNA of apples is relatively new in the span of history. How do we then find out if what we have is a particular apple? John says, “You eliminated the pool, you are like Sherlock Holmes” Apples mentioned in this Cider Chat Northern Spy Baldwin Oldman Sweet Poundsweet Gravenstine Blue Pearmain Northern Spry Ben Davis Givens originated in Topsom Maine Harrison and Hues Campfield Wanted info on the Fairbanks apple Honeycrisp Gala FEDCO Trees Catalog John Recommends: Books: Apples of New York SA Beech 1904 2 volumes Contact Super Chilly Farm Website: Go to Out on a Limb Apples the website for Super Chilly Farm is not updated. Become a Patron of Cider Chat via the Cider Chat Patreon Page      

Austin Eastciders is helping to make Austin Texas a cider mecca in a land where the apple root faces harsh growing conditions. Aaron Anderson is the R&D Coordinator at this growing cidery. He sat down for a chat with me at CiderCon2016 in Portland Oregon during the United States Association of Cider Makers conference. The head cidermaker is Preston Nickens. Aaron Anderson Austin Eastciders opened in 2011 and is distributed in cans and draft throughout Texas and into Oklahoma, New York and New Jersey. The cider is selling so fast that come June of 2016 they will be moving into a much larger production facility. Austin Eastciders ciders available Texas Honey Cider, with wild flower honey sourced from Texas 5% Original Dry Cider 5% An English cider called Gold Top was produced but at that point Texas cider drinkers weren’t ready for a bittersharp/sweet cider. That cider is still being produced, but is barrel aging. There is also a hopped cider made with full cones. The juice from the cider is sourced from the UK, France, Italy, and the Pacific Northwest. It is easy to taste the bittersharp and bittersweet apples in each can that was tried during this interview. Contact for Austin Eastciders Website: https://austineastciders.com

Keeving Made Simple, but oh so Dandy at Worleys Cider Neil Worley’s makes cider in the area of Great Britain called Somerset. Climb the high hill at the farm and your can see the Bristol Channel. It is a remote location by UK standards and the soil at the farm is only 3 inches in depth before you hit limestone. Thus, instead of growing apples at the farm, the apples are brought up the hill from the orchard at the old Taunton Cider Mill. Neil Worley Meeting Mr Worley Neil traveled to Portland Oregon in February 2016 to speak at the United States Association of Cider Makers annual event called CiderCon, which is were I caught up with him to chat about the cider making technique called “keeving”. What is Keeving? It is a process, whereby the nutrients of the sweet cider (before fermentation) are removed from the juice. During this process the nutrients float to the top of the juice forming a brown cap that Neil says looks like a “brown omelette”. The brown cap is punctured and the juice is rack over into a new container to then be fermented into cider. As there are no nutrients in the juice that was keeved, the yeast will not digest all the sugars in the juice thus leaving a refreshing cider that has a dry yet sweet flavor profile. Worley’s Cider has won numerous awards and Neil is highly regarded for his cider making. Worleys Special Reserve – Keeved Cider If you would like to visit Worley’s, there is a good chance that they can be found at a local fair or outdoor market on the weekends. In essence, try to set up the visit ahead of time. Contact for Worley’s Cider Website: http://www.worleyscider.co.uk/ The full transcript of this chat with Neil including all the details he shared on keeving is available for patrons of Cider Chat. Go to Cider Chat Patreon Page and find our how you can receive your copy of this informative chat with Neil discussing the technical aspect and tricks of keeving. Thank you to Cider Chat’s founding sponsor “Cider Cellars Importers” – importing UK cider to the US! Listen to Linda’s promo in this chat as she pronounces each apple variety.

Jim Wallace is a cheese maker and cheese tech a.k.a the "Cheese Guru" at New England Cheesemaking Supply in Ashfield Massachusetts. When not helping the cheese world sort through problematic cheeses, he teaches classes at his home...in his cellar where he also ferments wine, beer, and cider and has his beloved cheese cave. Our goal for this chat was to have a cider and cheese pairing and discuss a baseline approach for discerning between the right cheese to choose for a pairing. Find the full show notes to this chat at ciderchat.com Go to Episode 25 Jim Wallace | Cider Pairing with a Cheese Maker at https://ciderchat.com/podcast/025-jim-wallace-cheese-maker/ Follow Cider Chat on Twitter @ciderchat

Leonard Koningswijk owner/cidermaker of Bear Cider in the Netherlands is turning his country towards cider one palate at a time. The idea was sprouted at his family home in the rural village of Beerze on the border of Germany. (Beerze means bear in Dutch.) Like many cider folk he saw the bounty of apples laden on the trees and thought something must be done with those apples. Via the internet he learned how-to press apples and make cider and took a course with Peter Mitchell on cidermaking.  Leonard Koningswik cidermaker of Bear Cider He knew his country was great for growing apples but there are not any large volume of cider apples being grown. Note this is changing as the demand for cider increases, most notably south east of Amsterdam where UWE Betuwe Cider has an orchard.  The cider revival is slowly gaining speed in Amsterdam, Utrecht, Den Haag, and Rotterdam. Listen to 002: Wouter Biljs | CiderCider, Rotterdam and 010-Margot Sanderse | Het Ciderhuis, Utrecht and see how two importers are making craft cider cool again. In this Cider Chat How Leonard makes cider, by importing apple juice from Herefordshire, England The lack of cider apples in the Netherlands The uphill push to educate the public on the virtues of drinking cider. Launched as Beer Cider in 2012, the name has been changed in 2016 to Bear Cider. Leonard and I discuss the branding of his product, which startup cidermakers should find particularly interesting. Ciders Sprankelende Nederlandse Appelcider 5.3% Sprankelende Nederlandse Appelcider 5.3% corked Stille, Vintage 2014 “Single Variety” Dabinett appelcider 8% India Wheat Cider, Collaboration with Brouwerij (brewery) Het Uiltje 6.5% Bear Cider cidermaking process Imported 350 hectoliters of apple juice from UK in 2015 – equals 9,246.02 gallons Shipped in a 1000 liter IBC, which are a square plastic vessel Ferment right in the IBC Netherland Cider Tourist – Landing at Schiphol airport Bear Cider in Albert Heijn’s right in Schiphol Airport Located right outside the terminal is Citizen M hotel, which serves Bear Cider In Amsterdam, Appels en Peren, new retail cider store by Rembrandtplein. – de Sterk go via the tram from Centraal Station which has a great selection of ciders and beer Contact Info for Bear Cider Website http://beercider.nl/ Address: De Boomgaard 11-1 1243HV ‘s-Graveland Telephone: 035-887 52 22

Alec Steinmetz, Will Correll and Matthew Meyer are sharing their story of starting an urban cidery. This is Part 1 of what will be an ongoing story of the start-up Buskey Cider of Richmond, Virginia.  The cidermaking tanks arrived in February 2016. 5 wine tanks 4 brewing tanks, which are conical They pitched the yeast for Buskey's first cider on March 16, 2016 2 - 30 barrels tank pitched with one strain 4- 15 barrel tanks all have different strains 3- 4.2 barrel tanks for specialty ciders Opening date is expect in late April when they hope to be serving  the first cider to the public. They are working towards a 20-24 day production time. Full show notes and Alec's startup tips at https://ciderchat.com/podcast/alec-steinmetz-buskey-cider-virginia/  

Getting to cider for Gregory Hall, was one part luck and a whole lot of beer. When his father John Hall founded the Chicago based Goose Island Brewery in 1988, it took only 3 years before Greg was at the helm of brewing.Twenty years later in 2011 the brewery would be sold to Anheuser Busch-B InBev. The 2011 sale set Greg free to move on to his next great adventure - Virtue Cider.  I was curious to ask Greg about what a cidermaker should consider for the long run if they want to parlay their business to the next level as father Hall's did with Goose Island and Greg did with Virtue only 3 years later again - this time selling Virtue's majority stake to A-B InBev. Obviously one must have a good product and as Greg tells it he looked to the European cidermakers for inspiration and direction.   "I went with my laundry list of question that I was use to asking at breweries,most of which were fairly technical and found out very quickly that I was asking the wrong questions.Traditional cider making is a multi generational effort. They sure as heck weren't measuring PH in 1830's"  Find the full show notes to this chat at ciderchat.com searc for episode # 021