Cider Chat

At the New York Cider Fest in November, there were 2 Cider and Cheese sessions. Cider Chat Emcee Ria Windcaller attended one featuring ciders from 4 different makers. This cider and cheese pairing was led by Rachel Freier, a cheesemonger who is based in the Finger Lakes. She brought deep knowledge, humor, and a whole lot of heart as we tasted our way through four ciders and three cheeses. 00:00 Introduction to New York City Cider Fest 01:55 Networking at the Cider Fest 02:50 Exploring the Finger Lakes Cider Scene 04:36 Upcoming Cider Tours and Events 09:32 Cider Making Tips and Anecdotes 13:46 Featured Presentation: Cider and Cheese Pairing 23:31 Sterilizing Juice and Grape Skins 23:41 Exploring Apple Varieties: Northern Spy and Crab Apples 24:06 Harvesting Feral Fruit and Gnarly Branch Rose 24:51 Pairing Cider with Cheese 25:31 The Finger Lakes Cider Scene 26:09 Cider and Goat Cheese Pairings 27:19 Kingston Black: The King of Apples 30:16 The Art of Blending Ciders 31:09 Sustainable Cheese Making 33:43 Chisel Jersey Cider and Cheese Pairing 36:19 Upcoming Cider Chat Episodes 37:20 Celebrating the Holidays with Cider 39:23 Musical Outro: Strange Apples Contact Info for the Ciders and Rachel Rachel Freier, (Cheesemonger): Eve's Cidery - Maker Ezra Idiot Brother Cider - Maker Robert Grisamore/ Cider Works - Maker Simon South Hill Cider - Maker Steve Mentions in this Cider Chat Episode 198: Becoming a Pomologist w/ Dr. Peck Totally Cider Tours UK tour feature in CAMARA's Pint West Patron Letter - Sune 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour The Talking Pommes' Grand Winter Party Annual Special Episode

Tom Oliver is delightfully talented, mischievously witty, and not only a renowned cider maker but also a top-notch perry maker. He may say, "If you're going to make perry and work with pears, you've already identified yourself as being criminally insane," but what we found was simply a bold maker willing to go the extra mile for every bottle. Enjoy this audio snap shot at Oliver's Cider and Perry Herefordshire, recorded on the 2025 Totally Cider Tour_UK Edition. Hear him share the story behind transforming his family's old hop barns into the heart of his cider and perry production, offering listeners a rare look into his traditional farmhouse methods. He discusses the challenges and joys of working with tannic cider apples and perry pears, spontaneous fermentation, barrel aging, and the evolving climate's impact on cider making. Tom has been featured in many Cider Chat® episodes and will be one of the select scheduled stops on the 2026 UK Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour. 00:00 Introduction to Perry and Cider Making 00:17 Meet the Host and Guest 00:57 Totally Cider Tour Experience 03:28 Challenges of Perry Making 04:11 Foraging and Traditional Perry Making 05:09 The Importance of Known Varieties 06:28 Cider Preferences and Quality 07:43 Totally Cider Tours - UK 10:18 Tom Oliver's Cidery Tour 11:47 Barrel Room Insights 13:08 Perry and Cider Fermentation 14:35 Pressing and Storing Fruit 15:51 Unique Perry Varieties 21:48 Barrel Aging and Tasting 25:03 Introduction to Fermentation 25:49 Wild Fermentation Process 27:11 Saccharomyces Yeast Role 28:34 Fermentation Containers and Aging 29:26 Bottling and Release Plans 29:44 Fermentation Under Pressure 32:28 Temperature and Duration of Fermentation 33:43 Challenges with Temperature Control 36:31 Barrel Cleaning and Maintenance 38:27 Regulations and Environmental Concerns 40:54 Conclusion and Future Plans Topics Covered The transformation of Oliver's hop barns into barrel rooms The shift from hops (Fuggles, Northdown, Target) to cider and perry fruit Why perry making is "a walk through madness" compared to cider The discipline of pressing and storing tannic pears at their peak Wild fermentation: apiculate vs. Saccharomyces yeast and how they shape flavor Barrel aging as both art and alchemy The sensory nuance of minerality and mouthfeel Keeping barrels "organically clean" for wild ferments Rising temperatures and the modern challenges of traditional cider making Perry Pear Varieties Mentioned Butt – dense and slow to soften; can store for weeks Thorn – softens quickly, needs immediate pressing Judge Amphlett – early ripening, fast fermenting Winnall's Longdon – honeyed, complex, but fragile and quick to spoil Yellow Huffcap – rich tannins, aromatic, often over-ripens on the tree Ciders & Perrys Tasted Eskimo Eyes Perry – 6% ABV, aged six months in rum and white wine barrels. A still perry that balances delicate fruit, subtle oak, and lingering depth. Barrel-Aged Still Cider – 9.2% ABV, matured 18+ months in Irish whiskey and Scotch barrels, bringing notes of minerality, oak, and sherry-like warmth. Call to Action If you've ever wondered whether you're bold enough to make perry, this episode will either inspire — or warn — you. Join Tom Oliver and other makers on the upcoming 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour, and hear more stories from the barrel rooms of cider's most daring artists at CiderChat.com. Send an email today to mailto:info@ciderchat.com Contact info for Oliver's Cider & Perry (Tom Oliver) Website: https://oliversciderandperry.co.uk/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour 2026 – get on the wait list today! send an email to info@ciderchat.com and let us know how many slots you would like to have us keep open for you!

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview 00:32 French Pronunciation Fun 02:27 Holiday Gift Ideas for 2025 02:59 Cider Chat News and Updates 04:42 Listener Stories and Experiences 07:49 Upcoming UK Cider Tour 2026 12:47 Featured Presentation: 2025 Holiday Cider Gift Guide 13:35 Cider Chat Partners and Supporters 25:30 Stocking Stuffer Tips and Cider Supplies 31:36 The Perfect Name for American Pommeau 45:24 Conclusion and Final Thoughts 00:00 Introduction and Language Fun 00:14 Cider Chat Episode 480 Overview 01:10 Naming Poot in America 02:27 Holiday Gift Ideas for 2025 02:59 Cider Chat News and Updates 03:08 New Patron and Michelin Star Connection 04:42 Michael of Edulis Cider Journey 06:25 Rising Costs of Starting a Cidery 07:49 Blossom Time Tour 2026 12:47 Holiday Cider Gift Guide 13:35 Cider Chat Partners and Supporters 25:30 Stocking Stuffers and Cider Supplies 31:36 The Perfect Name for American Pommeau 41:32 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Find full episode show notes and links at https:ciderchat.com

New York Cider Fest 2025 brought together makers and enthusiasts for an unforgettable day at City Winery Manhattan. In this special collection of on-the-floor recordings, Cider Chat® captures Audio Snap Shots with festival patrons. Hear how attendees at the New York Cider Fest are viewing cider today — what styles they're excited about, how they're drinking it, and the foods they love to pair with a glass, including their favorite Thanksgiving matches. Episode Timeline 00:00 Introduction to Cider Chat 02:34 Exciting News: Totally Cider Tours 10:21 Feature Presentation: New York Cider Fest 12:24 Listener Snapshots: Cider Enthusiasts Share Their Stories 18:45 Exploring Cider Pairings and Preferences 19:22 Cider Travels and Discoveries 25:17 Food Influencers at Cider Fest 28:05 Meet the Food Bloggers 28:35 Kylie and JJ's Cider Journey 32:30 Katie's Fruity Cider Favorites 39:09 AJ's Tequila and Cider Combo 42:22 Adventurous Ashley's Cider Travels 45:48 Cider's Growing Popularity 47:56 Join the UK Cider Tour 49:20 Cider Song Finale Contact info for the New York Cider Fest The New York Cider Association hosts this annual event – go to their website at https://www.newyorkciderassociation.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour April 27th – May3rd Guest Instagram accounts on this episode @roommatesfeasting @fontanas_food @adventuressashley

What is Pommeau? Pommeau is a: fortified blend of fresh apple must (unfermented) and apple brandy (typically Calvados in Normandy or Lambig in Brittany). The unfermented apple juice and brandy are combined before fermentation, which halts the process entirely and preserves natural sweetness. By law in France, Pommeau must be aged a minimum of 18 months in oak and produced within designated regions. It's rich, amber-colored, and served as an apéritif. It is consider to be a French heritage drink shaped by decades of refinement and protected standards. When did Pommeau receive AOC status? Pommeau received its official Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée (AOC) status in 1991, formalizing the traditional method and legally protecting what can and cannot be called Pommeau within France. And in America? If you ask what Pommeau is in the United States, the answer is: nothing defined. There is no legal TTB definition, no standard of identity, and no trade agreement protecting the name. Yet hundreds of U.S. labels already use the word…sometimes accurately, sometimes loosely, often inconsistently. So the question becomes, "What happens when a French classic with strict rules lands on U.S. labels with no rules at all?" That's the conversation American isn't having… yet. In this episode, Ria speaks with alcohol beverage attorney Lindsey Zahn to unpack what it means to use the word Pommeau in the U.S.—legally, culturally, ethically—and what cider makers and consumers should consider going forward. What happens when a French classic with strict rules lands on U.S. labels with no rules at all? That's the conversation America isn't having… yet. In this episode, Ria speaks with alcohol beverage attorney Lindsey Zahn to unpack what it means to use the word Pommeau in the U.S.—legally, culturally, ethically—and what cider makers and consumers should consider going forward. Key Topics Covered What Pommeau legally means in France Why the TTB has no definition for Pommeau How hundreds of U.S. labels were approved without consistency The difference between fortified cider vs. Pommeau Why a COLA approval does not protect you from trademark or trade disputes U.S.–EU trade agreements and why Pommeau is not protected Risks for current makers using "Pommeau" on labels Why "American Pommeau," "Pommeau-style," or accurate class/type statements may reduce risk The opportunity for U.S. cider associations to create a new American term A call for a naming contest—what the U.S. cider world could build together Why truth in labeling matters beyond regulatory compliance Why this conversation needed to happen…ten years ago Contact info for Lindsey Zahn P.C. Website: https://www.zahnlawpc.com Previous Cider Chat episode with Lindsey : Episode 85 Lindsey Zahn on Cider Law TTB Labeling Resources: https://www.ttb.gov 00:00 Introduction and Common Misconceptions 00:23 Meet the Host and Guest 01:35 Episode Overview: Focus on Pommeau 03:13 Cider Tours Announcement 06:58 Listener Support and Sponsors 08:40 Main Discussion: Legal Aspects of Pommeau 25:34 Trademark Rights and Labeling Concerns 27:34 The Importance of Due Diligence in Labeling 28:46 Pomo: A Gray Area in Cider Labeling 30:30 Alternatives to Using 'Pomo' 32:36 Truth in Labeling and Production Methods 36:08 Advice for Cider Producers 38:39 Role of Cider Associations 46:08 Final Thoughts and Call to Action Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours

Learn how to pick the right Cider and Perry for every dish on the Thanksgiving table. This week we are not chasing brand names. We are building flavor intuition. Consider Thanksgiving not as one single taste on a plate; it is a stack of distinct taste worlds. Each one asks for its own kind of cider or perry. In this holiday feature, Ria and the Talking Pommes a.k.a. Perry Pear, Mr. Quince, and The Medlars talk through the art of pairing cider and perry for the entire Thanksgiving feast, from the welcome sip to dessert. You will learn how to shop with confidence, how to read a label for style rather than brand, and how to bring bottles that make every part of the meal sing. There is also a downloadable Thanksgiving Cider Shopping Checklist PDF below to make your trip to the store simple and stress free. Chapters for Episode 477 00:00 Introduction and Talking Pommes 00:47 Welcome to Cider Chat 02:02 Thanksgiving Traditions and Preparations 06:05 Upcoming Cider Tours 07:40 New York Cider Events 10:26 Ultimate Cider Pairing Guide for Thanksgiving 14:00 Choosing the Right Cider for Starters 18:33 Main Course Cider Pairings 20:37 Turkey Preparation and Cider Pairing 21:12 Smoked Turkey and Barrel-Aged Cider 21:49 Creamy Sides and Semi-Dry Cider 22:31 Fruit Ciders for Roasted Vegetables 22:57 Choosing the Right Cider 23:58 Introducing Cider to Friends and Family 25:01 Low Alcohol Ciders for Gatherings 26:30 Dessert Pairings with Cider 31:31 Serving Cheese and Fruit Plates 33:01 Thanksgiving Table Preparations 36:19 Final Thoughts and Recommendations Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Cider Share November 14, 2025 | Red Hook Cidery Brooklyn NY New York Cider Fest November 15, 2025 | City Winery Manhattan

How to clarify, stabilize, and finish cider the right way The Purpose of Secondary Fermentation when Making Cider Once the apple juice has started fermented and it is now slowing down, it is time to rack over your cider for secondary fermentation. Secondary fermentation is where your cider moves from "young" to "refined." This stage improves clarity, stability, and overall quality before bottling or serving. 00:00 – Introduction and Welcome 00:27 – Meet the Host: Ria Windcaller 00:45 – The Magic of Clothes Pins 01:14 – Episode Overview: Secondary Fermentation 01:55 – Replay Announcement: Season 8, Episode 386 02:14 – Cider Making in the Northern Hemisphere 02:34 – Cider Making Resources and Equipment 06:09 – Totally Cider Tours 13:29 – Upcoming New York Cider Festival 15:31 – Featured Presentation: Clearing Cloudy Cider 24:01 – Observing Fermentation Activity 24:21 – Timing and Patience in Cider Making 24:54 – Understanding Racking Over 25:32 – Dealing with Stuck Fermentation 26:59 – Secondary Fermentation Indicators 27:47 – Preparing for Racking Over 29:13 – Racking Over Process 30:49 – Using Sulfites and Equipment 35:32 – Handling Head Space and Lees 38:38 – Final Tips and Bottling 42:43 – Supporters and Closing Remarks Why Secondary Fermentation Matters Secondary fermentation helps your cider: Improve the overall quality and characteristics of the final product during secondary fermentation by; Clarify: After the vigorous primary fermentation phase, yeast, pulp, and particulate matter settle out. Giving the cider time in secondary creates that clean, bright look in the glass. Stabilize: Letting the cider relax in a less active fermentation state helps smooth out rough edges and reduces the risk of funky off-character flavors. Reduce Bottle Sediment: Most of the lees settle in the secondary fermenter — not in your final bottles — giving you a cleaner, professional-looking cider. Avoid Off-Flavors: Yeast that sits too long on the lees can break down (autolyze) and create harsh, unpleasant aromas. Racking to secondary moves the cider off that yeast layer and protects the finished profile.. Secondary fermentation is a crucial step for refining cider, enhancing its clarity, taste, and stability before it is consumed or sold. Past Cider Making Episodes 381 DIY Cider Making for Beginners 382 Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment 384 Beginner Cider Making Tips forPrimary Fermentation When to Transfer to Secondary Primary fermentation must be substantially complete. Signs include: – Airlock activity slows way down – Gravity readings stabilize over several days – Visible bubbling is minimal – A firm lees bed is forming at the bottom – Taste test confirms sugar is mostly gone (unless aiming for sweet Equipment needed for Cider's Secondary Ferment Find a complete list with links to purchase at the Cider Making Equipment page at ciderchat.com Extra Apple Juice to for topping off Secondary Fermenter – glass carboy of equal size Airlock and Bung Racking Cane or Auto-Siphon Sanitizer Hydrometer or Refractometer Tubing & a clothes pin ( a Ria tip to have on hand for clamping tubing as you go so it can be managed to insure that the tube doesn't slip down into the lees and stir them up) Bottle Brush and Cleaning Equipment Determining when Secondary Fermentation Begins Completion of Active Primary Fermentation: Watch and notice when the vigorous phase of primary fermentation is complete, which is typically indicated by a significant decrease in airlock activity or specific gravity readings that are close to the target final gravity. Gravity Readings: Use a hydrometer or refractometer to take consecutive gravity readings over a few days. When readings are consistent, it suggests that fermentation has slowed down enough for secondary transfer. Visual Clues: Look for a drop in the level of visible activity, such as the reduction of bubbles and the beginning of sediment formation at the bottom of the primary fermenter. Taste Test: Conduct a taste test for residual sweetness. If the cider is too sweet, it may need more time in primary fermentation unless the desired style of cider is sweet rather than dry. Timeframe Guidance: Generally, primary fermentation can take anywhere from a few days to two weeks, depending on factors like temperature, yeast strain, and original sugar content. Avoiding Off-Flavors: Transfer before the cider has sat too long on the lees at the bottom of the carboy to prevent off-flavors that can result from yeast autolysis. Specific Style Goals: Factor in the specific goals for the cider's style, as some styles may benefit from a longer or shorter primary fermentation before secondary. Equipment Availability: Ensure that the secondary fermentation vessel is prepared and sanitized before deciding on the transfer to avoid any delays once the cider is ready. Common Problems during Secondary Ferment Stalled Fermentation – Adjust fermentation temperature to optimal range. Excessive Oxidation – Minimize headspace and avoid splashing when transferring. Contamination – Practice stringent sanitation and possibly discard contaminated batch. Sulfite Burn – Allow time for dissipation or use activated carbon treatment. Insufficient Carbonation – Verify yeast viability and sugar availability; maintain proper bottle conditioning temperature. Sediment in Bottles – Allow full clearing in secondary, use fining agents, and bottle carefully. Unexpected Flavor Changes – Allow time for maturation or blend with another batch. Pressure Build-up in Containers – Use an airlock or periodically vent the container. Cider Becomes Too Dry – Monitor gravity to stop fermentation at desired sweetness or back-sweeten with non-fermentable sweeteners. Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours New York Cider Fest – City Winery NYC November 15th

Perry making has deep roots in Gloucestershire, stretching back to the 17th century when French wine imports were cut off during the Napoleonic Wars. Local farmers turned to their own fruit, and the rich soils around Hartpury proved ideal for growing Perry pears. This episode features audio snapshots from the 2025 Totally Cider Tour stop at the National Perry Pear Centre. Our guide, Phil Kester, volunteers with 99PINES , where he helps preserve the region's rare Perry pear varieties. Phil's passion for Perry and deep local knowledge made this visit one of the tour's highlights. The Roots of the National Perry Pear Centre Charles Martell recognized that Perry orchards across Gloucestershire were disappearing and began documenting rare varieties. His work led to the first National Perry Collection at the Malvern Three Counties Showground, planted with Tom Oliver and others. Jim Chapman later expanded the effort by gifting land at Hartpury. This site is The National Perry Pear Centre and is home to over 100 Perry pear varieties from Gloucestershire and beyond. These orchards safeguard living history, connecting generations through the craft of Perry making. The 99PINES Project The name 99PINES comes from the line of pines atop nearby May Hill, often called the heart of English Perry country. Phil Kester of 99PINESS " data-medium-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/475-Phil-Kester-of-99PINES-with-bottles-of-Perry.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" data-large-file= "https://i0.wp.com/ciderchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/475-Phil-Kester-of-99PINES-with-bottles-of-Perry.jpg?fit=200%2C300&ssl=1" /> Phil Kester of 99PINESS Phil and the volunteers at 99PINES are working to: Create a local hub to promote Perry culture in pubs and communities. Build a tasting space featuring 80–100 Perry varieties for education and enjoyment. Keep the project sustainable by reinvesting proceeds into orchard care and heritage initiatives. The Art and Challenge of Perry Making Perry is both art and patience. The fruit can rot within days, demanding precise timing at harvest. Perry ferments differently from cider and is more sensitive to bacteria. Varieties like Blakeney Red and Hartpury Green reveal a range of tannins and textures unique to Perry. Phil experiments with bottle conditioning and Pet Nat methods, showing how diverse and expressive Perry can be. Contact info for National Perry Pear Centre and 99PINES National Perry Pear Centre Website: https://www.nationalperrypearcentre.org.uk/ 99PINES Website: https://www.nationalperrypearcentre.org.uk/99pines-perry/ Mentions in this Cider Chat April 27-May3rd 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour to the United Kingdom Edulis Restaurant – Toronto Cider House Luncheons NY Cider Fest November 15, 2026

At the base of Burrow Hill life moves at the pace of apples and oak. Here, Julian and daughter Matilda Temperley are testment to the value of family for carry a business such as cider and brandy forward into the next 100 years. "You have to believe in the Romance of it because you are thinking so far in advance" Matilda Temperly From orchards planted for future generations to brandy resting quietly in barrels for decades, the Temperleys embody what it means to think in centuries, not seasons. The Cider: Tradition and Terroir The mount at Burrow Hill is memorialized in ongoing instagram posts because it provides a magnificent centerpiece of endurance and beauty due to its simplicity of a lone a large sycamore tree, which has become a local landmark and symbol of the Somerset landscape. Julian Temperly began planting cider apples trees here over 50 years ago. Today there are acres of orchards in different pockets surrounding Burrow Hill. A notable 75 acre orchard that was purchased from the Showering family years ago now, is touted to be the largest standard cider apple orchard in the world. Here you find the classic Burrow Hill cider as a tannic, full-bodied, and balanced drink. The bottle-fermented Kingston Black and Stoke Red ciders are great for hang time with friends or fine dining. Every cider reflects its orchard origin, emphasizing flavor, heritage, and authenticity. Distilling Somerset's Spirit In 1989, Somerset Cider Brandy became the first licensed distiller of apple brandy in the UK since the 19th century. And they have been awarded Protected Geographical Indication (PGI) status. This status guarantees that the brandy is produced in a consistent and traditional manner within Somerset. Using unique Gazagne stills, which are continuous stills of French design, the Temperleys now have lovely range of offerings from Eau de Vie to 20-year-aged Somerset Cider Brandy. Their Pomona, is a blend of apple juice and brandy, celebrates Somerset roots. Looking Ahead The Temperly's 100-year plan focuses on replanting traditional orchards, cultivating local oak for future barrels, and sustaining multi-generational stewardship. The goal: to ensure that Burrow Hill remains a place where apples, family, and time converge into something extraordinary. Matilda Temperley in the Tasting Room at Somerset Cider & Brandy Contact info for Somerset Cider and Brandy at Burrow Hill Website: https://www.somersetciderbrandy.com Mentions in this Cider Chat 432: Ancha Gergely's Abaliget Garden Projects | Hungarian Cider Maker 431: Domaine Johanna Cécillon's Elegant Ciders | Brittany FR Totally Cider Tours - UK Cider Tour April 27th - May 3rd, 2026 French Cider Tour September 20th - 26th, 2026

What makes a Pét Nat cider sparkle naturally and how is it connected to the rural method you might have heard about in the UK? In this episode, we take a practical look at: What Pét Nat cider is and how it relates to the "rural method" A clearer way to describe fermentation: Active Ferment → Quiet Phase → Maturation When and how to rack cider for clarity and flavor How to time bottling for perfect natural carbonation Using a hydrometer to bottle safely at 1.005–1.010 SG Essential tips for bottle-conditioning without blowouts Why a little yeast haze can add charm to your finished cider Key Takeaways Pét Nat (Pétillant Naturel) means naturally sparkling where the bubbles come from fermentation finishing in the bottle. Racking is a simple but essential step to move cider off the lees without introducing oxygen. Skip the jargon: watch what your cider is doing, not just the calendar. Always use champagne-rated bottles and sanitize everything. The reward? Tiny bubbles, wild aroma, and the pure joy of cider alive in the glass. Cider Making Resource Cider Maker check list √ go to https://ciderchat.com/cider-making-equipment/ Cider Books, Orchard Care, Apple Id and Children's Books Mentions in this Cider Chat Cider Making How-to Episodes: 095: Cider Making at Home easy as 1-2-3 152: How to teach Cider Making 101 381: DIY Cider Making for Beginners 382: Beginner Tips for Squeaky Clean Cider Equipment 384: Beginner Cider-Making Tips for Primary Fermentation 386: Managing Cider's Secondary Fermentation – DIY Tips Fall Event - November 1, 25th Annual Apple Harvest Fest at Albemarle CiderWorks