Cider Chat

This episode of Cider Chat, was recorded in person with Abram Goldman-Armstrong at CiderCon2025 in Chicago. Hear his journey to cider. From growing up in Oregon’s Yamhill County to his current work in Norway’s Hardanger region at Alde Sider. Abram began fermenting cider as a student in Minnesota and went on to found the cidery known as Cider Riot in Portland, Oregon. His experience reflects both the evolution of the cider industry and the challenges of building a business grounded in values and community. The Cider Riot Years Cider Riot grew from a home cider making project into a well-regarded cider brand and pub. Abram describes building the business, navigating challenges like rising rent and market shifts, and the significance of Cider Riot as a political and cultural hub. The pub hosted community meetings, union organizers, and events that reflected Portland’s activist spirit. Standing Against Far-Right Violence On May 1, 2019, Cider Riot became the site of a violent confrontation when members of the far-right group Patriot Prayer, led by Joey Gibson, clashed with patrons during a May Day celebration. The altercation resulted in injuries, including a woman being knocked unconscious. Abram filed a $1 million lawsuit against Gibson and others involved, alleging that they had instigated the attack. The incident drew national attention and highlighted the challenges faced by businesses taking a stand against hate groups. Relocating to Norway After Cider Riot closed in late 2019, Abram accepted an offer to collaborate with cider makers in Norway. He began working with a small brewery before moving west to Hardanger, where he now produces cider at Alde Sider. The region has a long history of apple growing and is the first in Norway to receive a protected designation for cider. In this Cider Chat Early influences in Oregon: Working with Alan Foster of White Oak Cider, planting bittersweet varieties like Kingston Black. DIY beginnings: Making cider in college using apples from the dining hall and a cheese grater. Founding Cider Riot: From garage startup to a full-scale cidery and pub in Portland, Oregon. Pub culture & Portland community: Supporting labor organizing, queer and trans spaces, and anti-fascist events. Financial challenges: Draft-focused sales model, missed retail opportunities, and the impact of hard seltzers. Closure of Cider Riot: Reflections on its cultural significance and decision to shut down in 2019. Move to Norway: Invited to launch a cider program with a brewery in Sandefjord, leading to Tall Ship Cider. Transition to Alde Sider: Current role as lead cider maker in Hardanger, Norway’s key cider region. Hardanger cider traditions: Protected cider designation and historic use of apples like Gravenstein and Discovery. Production methods at Alde: Use of Nottingham ale yeast Chaptalization with Danish beet sugar High-acid juice (~pH 3.1–3.2) Residual sweetness target of 1.003 SG Crossflow filtration to halt fermentation Barrel aging program: Experiments with French agricole rum and Norwegian whiskey barrels. Community cider scene: Five producers in the village of Nå, collaboration across the fjord, and cider tourism via fjord boat. Cultural observations: Comparing pub cultures, lifestyle differences between Norway and Portland. Low-ABV cider innovation: Creating a 4.7% cider for draft sales in collaboration with 7 Fjell Brewery. Use of wild yeast: Petnat-style experiment using orchard yeast and natural inoculation. Future plans: Continuing to explore cider styles in Norway, working with bittersweets, and developing new blends. Contact Info Abram Website: https://www.aldesider.no Mentions in this Cider Chat 317: How a “Cyder” Teapot fueled the American Revolution Stone Ridge Orchard Wassail May 3rd & 4th – tickets https://www.clover.com/online-ordering/Event-Tickets Episode: 450th Roger Wilkins – The Cider King

John Edwards, longtime cider maker and integral team member at Ross on Wye Cider & Perry Co., and the creative force behind his personal label Fly be Night Cider was last on the podcast in 2019. John Edwards In this Cider Chat with John Edwards ohn is part of the tight-knit crew at Ross Cider who keep things running from orchard to bottle. The team has embraced a belt press system, which John finds surprisingly nimble—even for small batches. While Ross is rooted in tradition, they’re also evolving their process to match the scale and diversity of their orchard. Transitioning to stainless steel fermentation tanks Working with old and rediscovered apple varieties Committed to wild yeast and natural fermentation Managing fire blight Diversifying the orchard’s apple stock with varieties like Kingston Black, Golden Ball, and Cider Lady’s Finger. Fly Be Night: A Creative Outlet Fly by Night remains John’s personal cider expression—just a few barrels a year, shared with friends. Each release gets a new label (last year’s was “Space Goat”), and while the iconic “0% Sh*t” label is retired, the spirit of fun and integrity lives on. A Cellar Surprise for Ross Fest 2025? John has one cider still in the cellar: a 2014 Foxwhelp that might just see bottles soon. Whether blending at Ross or bottling at home, John’s work reminds us that cider thrives on community, curiosity, and a bit of mystery. Mentions in this Cider Chat Episode 195: Fly Be Night Cider | 0% Sh**, UK Totally Cider Tour UK Edition

Rainy Days Goes Best with Dry Cider in the Barrel Room Walking into the barrel room at Oliver’s Cider and Perry Company, you might think you know what to expect. But surrounded by whitewashed stone walls, standing beneath the old Hessian sacking floor, and facing rows of aging barrels, I quickly realized this wasn’t just a cidery—it’s a living, breathing creative space for cider making. Tom Oliver sources fruit both from his farm and from local orchards across Herefordshire. This isn’t an estate cidery where everything is grown on-site—but what sets Oliver’s cider and perry apart is Tom himself. A master blender with an instinct for balance, he brings character to every bottle. And while the farm may not produce every apple, it certainly imparts its own terroir through the land, the barns, and the quiet, purposeful rhythm of the work. Tom and Ria In this Cider Chat Blending Tradition with Innovation Tom is now experimenting with distillation: apple brandy, pommeau-style blends, and barrel-aged perry into brandy too! He’s careful with naming, refusing to call something a “Pommeau” unless it honors French tradition. Barrels sourced from rum, sherry, port, bourbon, and white wine shape each unique blend. Tasting in the Barrel Room In the barrel room We tasted perries straight from the barrel—some from single ancient trees, others blended with gin pears or red pear varieties. Each sip revealed: Confectionary sweetness Banana, melon, pineapple notes Mellow malolactic fermentation This isn’t a showpiece cidery as Tom puts it, “It’s a working farm“, evolving from a hop yard and now cider. Tom calls it “just a part of the agricultural calendar.” No pretense, just purpose. Tom Oliver straddles the line between tradition and experimentation with ease. Whether it’s a single-varietal showcase or a spirit-kissed blend, the goal remains the same: make cider that speaks of time, place, and people. Contact info for Oliver’s Cider and Perry Co. Website: https://www.oliversciderandperry.co.uk Mentions in this Cider Chat 2025 Totally Cider Tour_UK Edition Send an email to info@ciderchat.com to get on the wait list for the next cider tour! Tom Oliver Featured episodes: 029 Tom Oliver| Oliver’s Cider and Perry, UK 105 Tom Oliver on Making Perry | UK 366 Acclaimed Cider w/Minimal Intervention | Tom Oliver

Celebrating Perry’s Past, Present, and Future Tom Oliver began his keynote by saying, "At this year’s Applefest Banquet, I had the honor of lifting a glass to the people behind the pear—specifically Perry. It wasn’t just a toast to the drink itself, but to the incredible commitment behind its preservation and craft." Tom Oliver Three Perry Legends Charles Martel Known for his Stinking Bishop cheese and peri-based products. Catalogued disappearing peri pear varieties, creating the first national collection at the Three Counties Showground. His book on Gloucestershire pears remains a landmark work. Jim Chapman Solicitor turned perry champion. Discovered the Hartbury Green pear and launched the Hartbury Orchard Centre. Now curates over 100 varietals displayed annually at the Malvern Autumn Show. Prefers dry, still perry—no bubbles, no fuss. Kevin Minchew Perry pioneer bottling single varietals long before it was fashionable. Crafted standout perries like Gin and Huffcap in whiskey barrels. His final release, Last Hurrah, is a 23-year-aged marvel at 11% ABV. Why Perry Matters "Each of these individuals helped elevate Perry to something worth saving, savoring, and sharing. Their legacies shape not just what’s in our glass—but how we think about heritage, land, and tradition. Let’s keep their torch lit. Raise your glass—Perry!" quote from Tom Oliver AppleFest menu   Contact info for Oliver’s Cider and Perry Website: https://www.oliversciderandperry.co.uk Contact info for Hereford AppleFest Website: https://herefordcitycouncil.gov.uk/hereford-applefest-2025/ The AppleFest will be taking a pause for 2025 - stay tuned for 2026 Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours - UK Cider Tour 2025 Ciderganza at Ross Cider and Perry Co. Gabe Cook - Ciderologist Hereford Beer House - United Kingdom Jane Peyton Keynote Episode 440: Jane Peyton Keynote |Hereford AppleFest Banquet

Drew Phillips opened the doors of Four Phantoms in Greenfield, Massachusetts in 2021. He began his fermentation career in the Pacific Northwest, and while waiting to open his own brewery, he took on the role as cider maker at Artifact Cider Project. Drew Phillips Known for his creative ciders and beers, Drew blends tradition with innovation, sourcing local fruit and experimenting with wild fermentation. Check out his talk on the making of Old Gods . In this episode, Drew shares how Four Phantoms’ unique approach reflects the terroir of Western Massachusetts. Early Challenges of a Brewery/Cidery: Gaining a License Drew initially couldn’t produce cider legally due to licensing restrictions in Massachusetts. After securing a farmer winery license, he started making cider alongside beer and mead. All ciders are crafted from Pine Hill fruit in Colrain, Massachusetts. Signature Ciders and Fermentation Techniques Late Harvest – 6.5% Apples (Spy, Golden Russet and Baldwin) Tamlane – 6% 100% Macintosh apples, aged on black birch wood, giving it a herbal, German liqueur note. Redfield – 7.7% 100% Redfield apples – A red-fleshed apple cider with natural acidity and structure. Chapin’s Waltz – 8.5% A blend of Golden Russet, Baldwin, and Northern Spy, co-fermented with low intervention. King of the Wharf – 7.5% A Mac-based cider aged on rum-soaked oak chips, giving it a smooth, warming finish. Old Gods – 8% Inspired by Finnish farmhouse brewing, fermented on black birch. Listen to Episode 345 on how Old Gods a Co-Fermentation of Wort and Apple Juice was made! Ciders Tasted during this chat Low Intervention and Sense of Place Drew emphasizes low-intervention cider making — no back-sweetening, minimal sulfites, and natural wild cultures. The ciders reflect the unique qualities of Western Massachusetts apples and local wood aging. Poly tanks and oak aging contribute to the distinctive flavors and textures. Community and the Future of Four Phantoms Four Phantoms Tasting Area by the production room Drew values the connection between local agriculture and cider. He sees cider’s future as more craft-focused than beer, with room for independent voices. “Cider resists commercialization,” says Drew. “It’s about sense of place.” Contact Info for Four Phantoms Website: https://fourphantoms.net Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Cider Route Itinerary send a request to Cider Chat Cider Rap Song – by Robert Sherman of EsoTerra Ciderworks in Durango, Colorado

In this Season 10 premier of Cider Chat, "Introductions" are featured from over 40 persons in attendance at the annual 2025 Berkshire Roundtable. Kicking off Season 10 of Cider Chat The opportunity to begin Season 10 with "Hellos" from a wide range of people in the cider community is the perfect fit for this milestone episode. Here at Cider Chat Central we hope that this Season opener acts as a reminder that there is a wealth of knowledge at hand at a grass roots level in every region of the US. Of course, this holds true for other countries as well and right about now this reminder feels very timely. In Wisdom Lies Hope — hope for sustaining orchard ecosystems, hope that information can be passed on, history can be preserved and through shared learning and collaboration we can all create a better world. We wish you all strength in knowing that so many others are working toward the same goal of stewarding this earth with care and intention. That shared purpose is a source of hope and resilience, even when the path ahead feels uncertain. What is the Berkshire Roundtable? The Berkshire Roundtable is an annual gathering held each March at Stump Sprouts, a rustic retreat center in Buckland, Massachusetts. This event brings together orchardists, cider makers, and industry professionals to exchange ideas and strengthen community ties. Meetings take place over the course of a day and a half, in a large room at the retreat with everyone sitting in a round circle. Berkshire Roundtable group photo New Beginning for the Berkshire Roundtable The Berkshire Roundtable has been taking place for the past 35 years! Micheal Phillips was integral in starting this meetup of orchardist and makers. In 2012, the Holistic Orchard Network (HON) was founded by Michael Phillips. His influential book, The Holistic Orchard, continues to be sought after by orchardists around the world. Find more of his books at the Cider Books Resource page on this website. Michael passed away unexpectedly while out in his New Hampshire orchard on February 27 2022. Today, HON continues on with leadership from Micheal Biltonen and others. Michael's work is continuing on by his wife Nancy and daughter Gracie Phillips and the HON work today. Gracie and Nancy Phillips Contact Info for HON and Heartsong Farm/Lost Nation Orchard Holistic Orchard Network with Berkshire Roundtable info : https://holisticorchardnetwork.org/   Heartsong Farm and Lost Nation Orchard Mentions in this Cider Chat 392: Bent Ladder Estate Ciders & Wine | Ohio   408: Cider’s Pomological Life Coach | Know Your Roots, NY   312: Angels Dressed Like Bears | Michael Phillips 1957-2022   Heartsong Farm and Lost Nation Orchard workshops   Follow MJ in Australia @getontheciders and his cidery @ciderinfusion   Follow Adrian Luna @hardciderguy

Looking back at Season 9 and Forward with Roger Wilkins In this season ending episode we visit Roger Wilkins at his Lands End Farm. Cider King – Roger Wilkins Roger Wilkins, is known globally as the “Cider King,” and is a legendary figure in Somerset cider-making. He has been running Wilkins' Cider Farm in Mudgley since taking over from his grandfather in 1969. Renowned for his traditional methods, Roger ferments locally grown bittersweet apples in oak barrels, producing unfiltered, unsweetened farmhouse cider. His no-nonsense style and commitment to authenticity have made Wilkins' Cider Farm a pilgrimage site for cider enthusiasts world wide. Though he has mentioned plans to scale down production, Roger was carrying buckets of apples into the cidery when Ria visited him in October of 2024. This episode features Roger discussing the difficulty for farmers and working with what he calls “Pen Floaters”. Season 9 Recap Throughout this episode you will hear guest from Season 9, which started with Episode #401. From Chile, the UK, France and Eastern Europe and throughout the U.S.A., Cider Chat has featured guests who both make cider, promote cider, provide leadership for cider and enjoy cider. With this episode 450 of Cider Chat we are showcasing the oral history of cider in 2025. So grab a glass and Join the Chat, as we ring out one season and prepare for the next! Mentioned in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Cider Chat Podcast Archives – Find over 450 episodes. Use the search bar for up top and plug in a work or name to find an episode on that topic! 438: The Secret Sauce to Cider’s Growth is #xpromotecider

The Role of the Museum of Cider Elizabeth Pimblett’s background and her journey to the museum The history of the museum, founded in 1887 by the Bulmer brothers The significance of the building and its historic cider cellars What Visitors to the Museum Can Expect Permanent exhibits: farmhouse stone press, cider brandy distillery, archival collections Rotating exhibitions, including photography and past exhibits like Women in the Art of Cider The Museum’s Hidden Treasures and Highlights 18th-century cider glasses with engraved historical messages Rare cider books from the 1600s and 1700s, donated by Bertram Bulmer The underground rooms that were part of Bulmers original cider caves that had spanned over 3 miles at one time. The massive cider press at the entrance Cafe Cider to purchase Contact info for Museum of Cider Website: https://www.museumofcider.co.uk/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours 317: How a “Cyder” Teapot fueled the American Revolution

The Cider Institute: Training the Next Generation of Cider Makers The Cider Institute, formerly known as the Cider Institute of North America (CINA), is the premier resource for cider education. Founded in 2016 at CiderCon, the Institute focuses on training cider makers of all levels, from beginners to advanced professionals. With a growing global reach, the Institute now offers online and in-person courses, making cider education more accessible than ever. In this episode we speak with the Cider Institute’s Executive Director Brighid O’Keane. Executive Director Brighid O’Keane Core Offerings: Cider Education for All Levels The Cider and Perry Production Foundation Course is the flagship program, covering everything from apple selection to fermentation, chemistry, microbiology, and post-production techniques. This 12-week online course includes weekly Zoom sessions with industry experts, ensuring hands-on engagement even in a virtual format. For those just getting started, the upcoming Cider Making 101 will be a self-directed, beginner-friendly course, introducing enthusiasts to the fundamentals of cider without the deep technical dive of the foundation course. For experienced cider makers, advanced courses cover topics like: Safety & Sanitation – Ensuring proper practices in cider production Sensory Analysis – Understanding cider flavor profiles Laboratory Testing – Learning critical quality control techniques Operations-Focused Hands-On Training – A five-day immersive experience A Global Perspective on Cider Training With increasing international interest, the Cider Institute is expanding worldwide. Upcoming in-person classes for 2025 will be offered at Brock University (Canada), Washington State University, and Virginia Tech, with plans for courses in the UK and beyond. The Institute also runs production tours, fostering knowledge exchange between cider makers across regions. (Left to right) Board Members – Christine Walter, Brighid O’Keane E.D., Nick Gunn, Chris Gerling, Steven Trussler, Nicole Leibon, Dave Takush, Kira Bassingthwaighte Contact Info for the Cider Institute Website: https://www.ciderinstitute.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Kordick Family Farm – newsletter sign up at https://kordickfamilyfarm.com/ Note the apple pretzels in the tree below Know Your Roots Consulting – newsletter sign up at

Michigan Cider: The Great Cider State with Paula Englin Michigan has earned its place as a leader in the cider industry, boasting the highest number of hard cider businesses in the U.S. In this episode, Paula Englin, Executive Director of the Michigan Cider Association, discusses the state’s growth in cider, the role of education, and how Michigan cider makers are shaping the industry with events like the well known cider competition GLINTCAP – Great Lakes International Cider and Perry competition. MCA Executive Director Paula Englin With nearly 195 cider businesses and a thriving community, Michigan truly is The Great Cider State Growing Michigan Cider: Collaboration & Education The Michigan Cider Association was founded over a decade ago to bring cider makers together, advocate for legislative needs, and expand consumer awareness. Today, the association focuses on education, providing opportunities for cider makers at all levels—from home enthusiasts to large-scale producers. One of the recent big initiatives has been working with the Cider Institute, formely known as the Cider Institute of North America (CINA), to offer subsidized cider education. Michigan cider makers have benefited from foundational courses, cider guide certifications for taproom staff, and marketing efforts that drive cider sales across the state. Mapping Michigan’s Cider Scene Michigan’s unique geography, shaped by the Great Lakes, creates an ideal environment for growing apples. Many cider makers source their fruit locally, often within 30 minutes of their production sites. Here’s how the cider landscape breaks down: To use this Hand Map – Hold up your left hand, palm facing outward, with fingers together and thumb extended—this mimics Michigan’s Lower Peninsula, often called “The Mitten,” with Detroit near the base of the thumb and Traverse City near the tip of your pinky. Metro Detroit (Thumb region) – A hub for orchards and cideries, home to well-known producers. Southwest Michigan (Pinky side of the mitten) – A mix of wineries and cideries, taking advantage of the region’s wine industry crossover. Grand Rapids & the Fruit Ridge (Center of the mitten) – A major apple-growing region supplying cideries statewide. Traverse City (Top of the mitten) – A destination for cider lovers, known for high-quality cider apples and innovative makers. Cider Events That Put Michigan on the Map Michigan’s cider industry thrives on consumer engagement, and events play a major role in getting more people to appreciate and support local cider. Michigan Apple Festival (Sparta, MI) – A harvest celebration featuring local apple growers, cider producers, and even an apple peeling contest! Cider Week Grand Rapids (May 9-17, 2025) – A week of cider-focused events, including pairing dinners, tap takeovers, and a board game night at House Rules in Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids Wine, Beer & Food Festival – Showcasing a variety of Michigan ciders to educate new consumers and cider fans alike. GLINTCAP: Great Lakes International Cider and Perry competition Michigan is also home to GLINTCAP (Great Lakes International Cider & Perry Competition), the world’s largest cider competition. Paula now oversees the event, which continues to grow, introducing a low and no-ABV category for the first time in 2025. One major shift? Judging is now fully digital, improving feedback delivery and accuracy. The competition also expanded international accessibility, making it easier for cider makers worldwide to participate. Contant the Michigan Cider Association Website: https://michiganciders.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to info@ciderchat.com to get on the wait list for spots opening on this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 and future cider tours. Letter from Patron Rod – Become a patron of Cider Chat via Cider Chat Patreon Stone Ridge Orchard May Wassail – follow on Instagram Episode 296 Bauman’s |Oregon’s Destination Farm Cidery