Legal Innovation Spotlight

In this episode, Ted Theodoropoulos dives into the realities of legal tech with Matthew Dunne and Andrew Sprogis, focusing on innovation, AI, and operational efficiency. They examine the decision to build or buy technology, the responsible integration of generative AI, and how firm culture affects tech adoption. Tune in for valuable insights on optimizing legal workflows and making informed, risk-aware choices in a rapidly changing landscape.In this episode, Matthew and Andrew share insights on how to:Evaluate build-versus-buy decisions for technology in legal practiceBalance innovation with established knowledge management (KM) practicesIntroduce generative AI in a law firm environmentAssess and define ROI in innovation projectsUse technology to increase operational efficiency in law firmsKey takeaways: Law firms should take a measured approach to AI, focusing first on lower-risk, business-related use cases before handling client-sensitive data.Generative AI doesn't necessarily require perfectly clean data, but basic data hygiene and correct document selection are essential.Innovation efforts in law firms are often guided by organizational culture, with a strong influence from senior management's risk tolerance.Building proprietary tools is typically discouraged for most firms unless it provides a unique competitive edge; support and maintenance are often overlooked in cost assessments.About the guests, Matthew Dunne & Andrew Sprogis:Matthew Dunne is the Sr. Innovation and Data Science Manager at Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP, where he integrates data science and legal tech. He leads Katten’s DataLAB, offering legal data science services and Gen AI applications. Matthew holds an MS in Applied Data Science from the University of Chicago and a JD from Indiana University, and he is a licensed attorney.Andrew Sprogis is Katten's Chief Innovation Officer and former Executive Director. He converts innovative ideas into practical solutions, helping attorneys and clients navigate industry changes. His team improves the client experience through enhanced quality and communication, emphasizing collaboration and leveraging new data.“It's the interaction of the technology plus the people and process part that leads to the ultimate outcome.” – Matthew Dunne“One of the challenges with the innovation space in general, and I think it's going to be this way for Gen AI, is that different people at different arcs of their careers are going to have different motivations to do things.” – Andrew SprogisConnect with Matthew and Andrew:Website: https://katten.com/Matthew’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-dunne-02842221/Andrew’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-sprogis-88997b20/Connect with Ted Theodoropoulos:Website: https://getinfodash.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tedtheoYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@getinfodash/podcasts

In this episode, Ted sits down with Darryl Cross, US Executive Sales Coach at Norton Rose Fulbright, to explore how law firms can innovate in business development while maintaining a client-focused approach. Darryl shares his unique perspective on coaching lawyers in sales, breaking down the barriers of skepticism and autonomy that often hinder business growth. This conversation is packed with valuable insights on transforming law firms into thriving, revenue-driven enterprises without sacrificing the professional integrity that defines the legal industry. In this episode, Darryl shares insights on how to:Adopt a client-centric sales mindsetOvercome lawyers' skepticism toward business developmentFoster collaboration across offices and practices within a global law firmIntegrate sales methodologies into the daily work of lawyersBalance risk management with innovationKey takeaways: Focusing on a small group of key clients, prospects, and referral sources, and dedicating most of your effort to them, is a highly effective approach to business development.Lawyers may resist traditional sales tactics, but reframing sales processes using familiar legal skills like discovery and due diligence can make business development more natural and effective.Having an internal sales coach with access to firm data and financials can significantly improve cross-practice collaboration, client service, and overall business growth.Running a law firm with a business mindset—focusing on revenue and profitability—provides the resources needed for investments in DEI programs, professional development, and broader community contributions.About the guest, Darryl Cross:Darryl Cross, US Executive Sales Coach at Norton Rose Fulbright, brings over 25 years of legal industry experience. A pioneer in in-house coaching for law firms, he blends sales methodologies with professional services to drive growth. Previously, he was part of the Sales and Leadership Academy at Amazon Web Services and held senior roles as a law firm CMO and VP of Performance Development at LexisNexis. Known for shifting mindsets to a client-centric business approach, he focuses on enhancing lawyers' sales skills and building scalable programs. He is the author of Cultivating Excellence: The Art, Science, and Grit of High Performance in Business and also volunteers as a girls' high school rugby coach.“When you are better at generating revenue and have a sales methodology, it allows you to pick and choose the work you want and the work that's most beneficial to the client.” – Darryl CrossConnect with Darryl Cross:Website: https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/enLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrylcross/Connect with Ted Theodoropoulos:Website: https://getinfodash.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tedtheoYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@getinfodash/podcasts

Stephen Embry, a lawyer and tech enthusiast behind the blog TechLaw Crossroads, dives into the complexities of AI in law. He reveals the surprising gap between perceived and actual AI adoption in firms, especially between large and small practices. The chat covers how generative AI can transform training for junior associates, ethical concerns about data privacy, and the importance of setting realistic expectations in AI integration. Stephen emphasizes that embracing these innovations could redefine the legal landscape, offering both challenges and exciting opportunities.

Dan Hauck, Chief Product Officer at NetDocuments, shares his expertise in AI-driven legal document management. He dives into how AI is revolutionizing document profiling and workflow automation in law firms. Hear about the integration of Microsoft Copilot, enhancing document search capabilities and streamlining workflows. Dan highlights the automation of routine tasks, improving consistency in outcomes, and how AI can embed knowledge management directly within legal processes, ultimately transforming the efficiency of legal operations.

Senne Mennes, Co-Founder of ClauseBase and a legal tech innovator, shares his transformative journey from law to technology. He discusses the game-changing effects of AI and document automation in legal work. Topics include balancing AI with human curation for effective legal drafting, the significant role of advanced automation tools, and the challenges posed by outdated document systems. Senne emphasizes the cautious integration of generative AI, ensuring it supports rather than replaces human expertise in the legal field.

In this episode, Ted welcomes back Richard Robbins and is joined by Brian Blaho from Reed Smith to discuss the challenges of integrating AI into legal research. You'll gain insights from the recent Stanford study, which highlights the limitations of current AI tools, and learn why these models often struggle with legal reasoning. If you’re exploring AI for your firm, this conversation highlights how transparency, collaboration, and smart implementation drive innovation.In this episode, Richard and Brian share insights on how to:Approach and evaluate AI systems for legal researchAssess the limitations of retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) systems in legal AINavigate the potential biases in academic studies about legal AI toolsEffectively benchmark legal technology and AI performanceIntegrate generative AI tools into law firm workflowsKey takeaways: The Stanford study criticized current legal research AI tools from major vendors, highlighting their limitations in accuracy and understanding legal nuances.Legal research is more complex than initially anticipated for AI models, particularly regarding how models handle the nuances of legal precedent and authority.Despite the shortcomings of current AI tools, vendors are actively working to improve their systems, but transparency and collaboration on benchmarks are essential for progress.A broader, community-led approach, rather than vendor-driven initiatives, is critical for establishing accurate benchmarking standards for AI in the legal industry.About the guests, Richard Robbins and Brian Blaho:Richard Robbins is the Director of Applied AI at Reed Smith, leading AI and data science initiatives. A former law firm partner and general counsel, he specializes in legal tech and generative AI. Richard also supports UC Berkeley’s graduate class on generative AI and frequently writes and speaks on the subject.Brian Blaho is the Global Director of Library Services at Reed Smith, managing library operations, budget, and innovations. With over 20 years in legal research, Brian focuses on legal tech and analytics. He leads global research and training and is active in professional associations.“It’ll be up to the vendors who build on top of the [legal AI] models to add the other workflows, the agentic systems, and other elements to get us there.” – Richard Robbins“Generative AI can potentially help us get much better results so that we have to either spend far less time reading through and curating which ones we're going to pass on or no time at all.” – Brian BlahoConnect with Richard Robbins and Brian Blaho:Website: https://www.reedsmith.comRichard’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-robbins-a88014117/Brian’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-b-37684524/Connect with Ted Theodoropoulos:Website: https://getinfodash.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tedtheoYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@getinfodash/podcasts

Carolyn Humpherys, an expert on AI in legal tech, shares her insights on the transformative impact of AI tools like Microsoft Copilot in law firms. She discusses how these tools automate routine tasks, boosting productivity in platforms like Excel and PowerPoint. Carolyn also delves into the challenges of adopting tools like Teams and OneDrive, emphasizing the importance of balancing innovation with security. With an eye on client confidentiality, she explains the necessity of proper integration and data management for maximizing the effectiveness of AI in legal workflows.

Join Ab Saraswat, a legal tech expert from Lupl, as he shares his insights on the real-world challenges and opportunities of integrating AI in law. Discover how to leverage AI tools for content generation and data analysis while navigating the tricky build versus buy decision in legal tech. Ab discusses the underestimation of the true costs of custom development and the limited adoption of AI across firms. He also sheds light on managing bias in AI algorithms and optimizing workflows with innovative natural language interfaces.

In this episode, our guest Annie Datesh takes us through her transformation from a corporate attorney to leading cutting-edge legal tech initiatives, such as the Neuron platform. We delve into the challenges and opportunities within the legal tech space, examining how to streamline startup workflows, embrace AI, and develop technology that boosts client satisfaction amid a complex legal landscape. Packed with invaluable insights and experiences, this episode will prepare you to navigate the dynamic wave of legal tech innovation.In this episode, Annie shares insights on how to:Leverage AI in legal technology to innovate legal workflowsAddress client pain points in legal processes with tech platformsNavigate the AI hype cycle and reset expectations in the legal industryComply with new American Bar Association guidance on AIBuild client trust and train lawyers in the era of AI integration in law firmsKey takeaways: The Neuron platform is designed to streamline startup legal workflows by automating repetitive tasks like document creation, thus reducing attorney time and client costs.Legal tech adoption is challenging due to the legal industry's resistance to change and the complexity of integrating new technology with existing processes.The legal industry is undergoing a period of reset, with a focus on genuine technological innovation and trust-building.Custom AI tools, like GPTs, show promise in streamlining processes but require cautious adoption and thorough training.About the guest, Annie Datesh:Annie Datesh is Wilson Sonsini’s Chief Innovation Officer. In this role, she works closely with firm management to set the firm’s innovation strategy, develop and implement legal technology programs for the firm and its clients, and support both internal and client teams on the legal and operational implications of emerging technologies and business models in the legal industry.Previously, Annie was a corporate and securities attorney in the firm’s Palo Alto office with a focus on representing companies at all stages of their lifecycle, from incorporation through fundraising, public offerings, and mergers and acquisitions in both private and public markets. Annie also has in-house experience and a first-hand understanding of the challenges of building and scaling a high-growth company, including being seconded to Square, Inc. during its IPO and serving on the leadership team at a venture-backed legal tech start-up, where she was the driving force behind a number of programs and departments.“Law firms educating clients is often on a legal issue or some new filing they need to do, not on an entire technology and why it can or can't be used in a certain way.” – Annie DateshConnect with Annie Datesh:Website: https://www.wsgr.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annie-datesh-0ba8959Connect with Ted Theodoropoulos:Website: https://getinfodash.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tedtheoYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@getinfodash/podcasts

In this episode, Ted and guest Jen Leonard explore how law firms can innovate while maintaining core values. Jen challenges traditional approaches, emphasizing the shift from tool adoption to fostering sustainable change. They discuss the importance of empathizing with end users and tech teams when integrating technology. The conversation explores the balance between the cost of not investing (CONI) and return on investment (ROI) in AI adoption. Learn about AI's impact on legal services, the role of optimism in tech integration, and balancing fear with progress. Tune in to see how you can shape the future of the legal industry!In this episode, Jen shares insights on how to:Innovate within traditional legal structuresIntegrate human-centered approaches in legal technologyAddress challenges in law firm business modelsOvercome structural impediments to legal innovationEmpathize with stakeholders during organizational changeKey takeaways: Applying design thinking in legal practice, with a focus on empathy and understanding clients' needs, is key to driving sustainable innovation in the legal industry.The traditional law firm partnership model hinders innovation by requiring consensus among many stakeholders with conflicting interests, slowing decision-making and change.Corporate legal departments are better positioned to drive innovation than law firms due to their seamless integration with the business and closer alignment with its goals.Despite the need for C-suite roles in business transformation, law firms struggle to attract top talent due to professional conduct rules (like Rule 5.4), which limit ownership and equity opportunities for non-lawyers.About the guest, Jen Leonard:Jen Leonard is the Founder of Creative Lawyers. Her consulting firm works with law firms to cultivate innovative cultures, build nimble and collaborative strategies for navigating a volatile environment, and promote skills and mindsets that drive change. Before launching her business, Jen was the first Chief Innovation Officer and Executive Director of the Future of the Profession Initiative at Penn Carey Law. She continues to teach courses at Penn, including Design Thinking for Lawyers, Generative AI in Law Practice, Law Firm Business Strategy, and Attorney Well-Being as Ethical Obligation. Jen practiced law for ten years after graduating from Penn Carey Law and writes and speaks frequently about legal innovation.“We as lawyers can learn from how other industries have transformed themselves.” – Jen LeonardConnect with Jen Leonard:Website: https://www.creativelawyers.net/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferaleonard2030 Vision: AI and the Future of Law: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/2030-vision-ai-and-the-future-of-law/id1751625159Fast-Tracked: Emergent Issues in the Legal Profession: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fast-tracked-emergent-issues-in-the-legal-profession/id1732522546Connect with Ted Theodoropoulos:Website: https://getinfodash.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tedtheoYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@getinfodash/podcasts