The Exit Five CMO Podcast (Hosted by Dave Gerhardt)

#242: Content Strategy | In this episode, Danielle sits down with Brendan Hufford, founder of Growth Sprints, to talk about what actually works in content and SEO today and why most B2B strategies are broken. Brendan went from high school teacher to leading content at top SaaS companies, and now helps brands move faster and build content strategies that drive real impact.They cover:Why most SEO strategies are broken - and why retainers make it worseThe content checklist that took ActiveCampaign from 200K to 240K visitors in 30 daysWhy the most lucrative SEO opportunities are hiding in plain sightBrendan’s "immortal newsletter" framework that cuts production time in half while doubling engagementPlus, check out the checklist Brendan mentioned in this episode here! Timestamps(00:00) - – Intro to Brendan (05:33) - – Lessons from teaching that apply directly to marketing (08:33) - – Why Brendan left education and entered the B2B world (10:03) - – Early agency and in-house marketing experience (11:48) - – Building a defensible career: audience, trust, and network (14:08) - – The Growth Sprints model: why retainers don’t make sense (15:18) - – Content strategy in bets, not buckets (16:33) - – Why SEO still works and where it actually drives results (18:03) - – Getting deep on audience, product, and internal dynamics (20:18) - – What marketers get wrong about internal buy-in (22:18) - – Real example: what a content sprint looks like in practice (23:48) - – The power of internal linking and content refreshes (27:23) - – How Google views internal linking and user signals (30:23) - – Why technical SEO is often overrated (33:23) - – Brendan’s hot take: most SEOs aren’t marketers (34:53) - – Why the “SEO takes 6 months” narrative is flawed (36:53) - – The problem with traditional retainers and content brief models (38:23) - – The immortal newsletter: how to mix evergreen + ephemeral content (41:23) - – Naming the problem, not just the category (42:53) - – Content should do 3–5 jobs at once: how to prioritize impact (45:23) - – The real value of competitor and alternatives pages (47:53) - – How to make content more useful for sales and buyer enablement (49:23) - – Brendan’s final mindset shift: create content that earns its keep Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership***Today’s episode is brought to you by Walnut.Why are we pouring all this effort into marketing just to push buyers to a “request a demo” or “contact sales” button?Come on, today’s buyers don’t want to talk to sales right away. They want to explore your product themselves, see how it works, and understand its value before booking a meeting.That’s where Walnut comes in.Walnut empowers marketers and GTM teams to create interactive, self-guided product experiences in minutes. Embed these experiences on your site, in emails, or anywhere in your funnel to let buyers engage on their terms, from awareness to close and beyond. That's the beauty of Walnut - you're getting a platform that your sales and CS colleagues can use to showcase the product too.And the best part? You get real intent data—see which features prospects love, where they drop off, and what’s actually driving pipeline. Demo Qualified Leads are the new MQL.Over 500 companies, like Adobe and NetApp, use Walnut to drive 2-3x higher website conversion rates and 7 figures in pipeline on a yearly basis. So do you want to drive more leads, shorten sales cycles, and actually show your product instead of hiding it behind another typical B2B CTA? Go check out Walnut.io. And if you tell them Dave from Exit 5 sent you, they'll build out your first demo for free!

Beth O’Malley, the 'email queen' of LinkedIn, Jay Schwedelson, founder of Subjectline.com and GURU Media Hub, and Jaina Mistry from Litmus delve into the evolving landscape of email marketing. They discuss why bad emails harm results and the misunderstanding of open rates' significance. The group debates resending to non-openers, the importance of deliverability, and the nuances of personalization. With a focus on building authentic connections, they highlight how to make emails effective in 2025.

In this discussion, Connor Lewis, founder of Studio Lewis and B2B video strategy expert, shares insightful strategies for crafting impactful video content. He emphasizes that production value isn't everything, offering tips on transforming blog posts into engaging videos. Connor also reveals what's currently thriving on LinkedIn for 2025 and why video ads might not be the best starting point. He introduces innovative formats like the 'reverse Rambo' hook and encourages marketers to embrace authenticity, making video approachable for everyone.

#239: Measurement | In this Exit Five live session, Dave sits down with Pranav Piyush, Co-Founder & CEO of Paramark (ex-PayPal, Dropbox, Adobe, BILL), to talk about the future of B2B marketing measurement.Spoiler alert: it’s not clicks.They break down why the old way of doing attribution doesn’t cut it anymore and why leading B2B teams are shifting toward incrementality, experimentation, and marketing mix modeling.Dave and Pranav also cover:The gaps in the old way of doing attributionWhat the best B2B marketing teams are doing now for attributionThe key questions CMOs face from boards and execs about measurementThree things you can do this quarter to improve your measurementTimestamps(00:00) - – Intro to Pranav (04:48) - – The Purple Cow mindset: why differentiation matters more than ever (06:28) - – Pranav’s background (PayPal, Dropbox, Adobe, BILL → Paramark) (07:33) - – “Measurement is Robin. Creative is Batman.” (08:48) - – Why click/touch attribution is flawed and misleading (12:18) - – The 95/5 rule: most of your audience isn’t in-market…yet (15:03) - – How top brands (Asana, DoorDash, P&G) measure beyond attribution (16:28) - – What is incrementality and why it’s more useful than attribution (18:48) - – Why revenue isn’t always the right KPI - especially in long sales cycles (20:48) - – Intro to marketing mix modeling (MMM) and how it works (22:48) - – Visualizing baseline vs. incremental impact on pipeline (24:03) - – Geo testing: how to prove a channel’s impact without attribution tools (26:03) - – The branded search trap: why you should test turning it off (30:08) - – Even Meta, Google, LinkedIn admit attribution is flawed (30:53) - – How to measure untrackable stuff (organic, content, social) (34:23) - – Why “credit” kills performance (36:13) - – Measurement for startups (39:08) - – What to do if all you track is closed-won revenue (40:53) - – Why attribution software is overkill under $100K in spend (42:08) - – Should you ask “How did you hear about us?” (44:53) - – How to carve out budget for channel testing (47:33) - – Don’t skip audience research (50:53) - – Creativity is still your #1 growth lever (measurement just supports it) (52:23) - – Wrap-up and final takeaways Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership***Today’s episode is brought to you by Walnut.Why are we pouring all this effort into marketing just to push buyers to a “request a demo” or “contact sales” button?Come on, today’s buyers don’t want to talk to sales right away. They want to explore your product themselves, see how it works, and understand its value before booking a meeting.That’s where Walnut comes in.Walnut empowers marketers and GTM teams to create interactive, self-guided product experiences in minutes. Embed these experiences on your site, in emails, or anywhere in your funnel to let buyers engage on their terms, from awareness to close and beyond. That's the beauty of Walnut - you're getting a platform that your sales and CS colleagues can use to showcase the product too.And the best part? You get real intent data—see which features prospects love, where they drop off, and what’s actually driving pipeline. Demo Qualified Leads are the new MQL.Over 500 companies, like Adobe and NetApp, use Walnut to drive 2-3x higher website conversion rates and 7 figures in pipeline on a yearly basis. So do you want to drive more leads, shorten sales cycles, and actually show your product instead of hiding it behind another typical B2B CTA? Go check out Walnut.io. And if you tell them Dave from Exit 5 sent you, they'll build out your first demo for free!

Dmitry Shamis, former Head of Brand at HubSpot and founder of Oh Snap, shares his expertise in B2B marketing. He discusses the true essence of brand identity and how many teams become overwhelmed by busywork rather than focusing on impactful marketing. Dmitry emphasizes the importance of having a unique point of view and aligning marketing with product strategies for genuine differentiation. The conversation also explores how AI can streamline processes and enhance creativity, while reminding marketers of the value of human ingenuity.

Udi Ledergor, the Chief Evangelist at Gong, is a marketing mastermind who turned Gong into a powerhouse brand. In this engaging discussion, he reveals how courage in B2B marketing can ignite creativity and drive success. Udi shares practical lessons from scaling Gong to over $100 million in revenue, insights from his book 'Courageous Marketing,' and why a clear brand personality is essential. He also highlights the significance of innovative campaigns, like Times Square billboards, and how to measure brand impact effectively.

Join Jason Oakley, founder of Productive PMM, Eric Holland, senior PMM at Betterworks, and Natalie Marcotullio, head of growth at Navattic, as they unpack the critical role of product marketing in B2B. They discuss effective positioning and differentiation strategies, the importance of continuous engagement, and how to measure impact on revenue. Insightful anecdotes highlight the difference between proactive and reactive approaches, while tools like OKRs offer a framework for aligning marketing initiatives with company goals.

Aditya Vempaty, VP of Marketing at MoEngage and seasoned expert from Nutanix and Amplitude, shares invaluable insights on marketing metrics. He stresses the necessity of translating marketing performance into a language that resonates with leadership. Aditya breaks down essential metrics into four actionable buckets and reveals the seven core metrics that every B2B leader should report on regularly. He also highlights the importance of aligning marketing and sales efforts, and how effective dashboards can elevate communication and transparency across teams.

Emma Stratton, founder of Punchy and author of "Make It Punchy," shares her expertise in B2B messaging and positioning. She emphasizes the importance of clarity over cleverness, showcasing how to avoid vague copy that falls flat. Emma discusses her process for creating message-market fit through customer research. The conversation also touches on personal development strategies like journaling and running to enhance creativity and productivity. Tune in for transformative insights into both messaging and personal growth!

Matt Carnevale, Head of Community at Exit Five, shares how they doubled community membership and boosted engagement in less than a year. He emphasizes treating the community like a product, which is pivotal for growth. Key strategies include leveraging audience feedback, effective onboarding, and implementing 'tripwires' to enhance engagement. There’s a strong focus on converting LinkedIn followers into active members and continuously refining offerings based on member insights. This approach is a game changer for B2B communities!