Azure & DevOps Podcast

Today’s guest is Emily Freeman who leads the modern operations team in cloud advocacy at Microsoft. She’s also the author of the recently released book, DevOps for Dummies, which guides readers through the ins and outs of DevOps. On top of this, Emily is a very talented speaker and speaks all over at many conferences and advises many cutting-edge startups and some of the largest companies in the world on DevOps, engineering leadership, and developer engagement. She is known for her creative approach to identifying and solving the human challenges of software engineering   In this episode, Emily and Jeffrey are talking about modern DevOps. Emily discusses her new book, DevOps for Dummies; the differences and similarities between the cloud advocacy area in Microsoft vs. other tech sectors when thinking about putting together a DevOps environment; where DevOps is now; changes in the industry; what makes ‘operations’ modern; and her concerns and hopes for the future of the industry.   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:56] About today’s guest, Emily Freeman! [1:32] Jeffrey welcomes Emily on to the podcast. [1:48] Emily talks about her new book, DevOps for Dummies, and what people can expect from it when they pick it up! [2:27] Emily shares her journey into tech and how she ended up at Microsoft. [4:24] Emily speaks about her strategy when writing DevOps for Dummies to target the newcomer to DevOps. [7:42] Why the second version/rewrite of a system always fails and why you don’t usually need to start completely from scratch. [9:25] Emily talks about her new book and the possibility of writing new books in the future. [10:27] Emily speaks about the differences and similarities between the cloud advocacy area in Microsoft vs. other tech sectors when thinking about putting together a DevOps environment. [12:06] In one of Emily’s talks, she speaks about firefighting, AKA putting out code fires. What does this mean? And how can we use this ‘firefighter’ approach to our benefit? [16:26] A quick word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [16:52] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [17:30] Jeffrey and Emily continue the firefighter discussion! [19:04] Where is DevOps now? Can it be defined by one definition? [23:44] Over the last 6 or 7 years there are twice as many programmers in the industry — so what does this mean for the current industry? [27:53] What other practices beyond continuous integration do people just tend to automatically reach for when they say they’re doing DevOps? [32:50] Emily shares her concerns and hopes for the industry. [36:00] Emily explains what makes ‘operations’ modern. [38:00] Emily recommends some resources to dig into more on the topics discussed today.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! EmilyFreeman.io Emily’s Twitter: @EditingEmily DevOps for Dummies, by Emily Freeman John Allspaw Fred Brooks The Agile Manifesto Octopus Deploy Redgate SQL Change Automation The Phoenix Project: A Novel About IT, DevOps, and Helping Your Business Win, by Gene Kim, Kevin Behr, and George Spafford GitHub Actions Stack Overflow Continuous Integration: Improving Software Quality and Reducing Risk, by Paul M. Duvall, Steve Matyas, and Andrew Glover Niall Murphy Site Reliability Engineering: How Google Runs Production Systems, by Niall Richard Murphy, Betsy Beyer, Chris Jones, and Jennifer Petoff   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

On today’s podcast, Christina Rudolph is joining Jeffrey Palermo to discuss DevOps from a Product Manager’s perspective!   Christina Rudolph has been a Product Manager at Clear Measure since November 2019. Previously, she served as Vice President of Operations for SAFE 2 SAVE from 2018 to 2019, she is the Founder and was Executive Director of the Friends of Hamilton ISD Education Foundation from 2011 to 2018, and an Information Technology Project Manager at Accenture from 2001 to 2008. She has had an incredible career and is really experienced in unifying teams through proven strategies, natural leadership, and concise decision making.   As a Product Manager, Christina has a unique perspective to bring the table in today’s episode! She shares what developers can do to help the non-technical people involved in their organization, how to give more accurate estimations when planning projects, addresses some of the biggest challenges for a Product Manager when interfacing with the development team, and more!    Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:53] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [1:08] About today’s episode and guest! [1:32] Jeffrey welcomes Christina on to the podcast. [1:40] Christina provides some background on the various software roles she has held over the course of her career. [4:18] Are some of the challenges from 2 decades ago in shipping software still similar to today? [7:03] As a Product Manager, what does Christina need from a development team? And what can developers do to help the non-technical people involved in their organization? [12:30] A quick word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [12:55] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [13:33] Why are we still struggling to solve the age-old problem of estimating and planning projects? [18:07] The biggest challenges for a Product Manager when interfacing with the development team and how Christina recommends addressing them. [19:55] Where should people go to learn more?   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps Bootcamp 2020 — January 16th & 17th in Austin, T.X. .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Christina Rudolph’s LinkedIn SAFE 2 SAVE Capers Jones The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering, by Frederick P. Brooks Jr. Project Management Body of Knowledge (PMBOK)   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Happy New Year’s — it’s officially 2020! To kick things off for this first episode back, Jeffrey is bringing you a special solo episode that will be entirely focused on the three essential scenarios that your DevOps pipeline needs to support.    Whether you’re doing your own research, planning on putting this all in place for new projects, or even adapting a legacy application with your DevOps environment — this is essential information. This overview will thoroughly cover all three of these scenarios; going in-depth about when they start, what they include, their goals, and the problems that occur when they are not implemented — so be sure to tune in!   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:57] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [2:05] About today’s solo episode! [3:10] What the three essential scenarios are. [4:20] Starting with the developer scenario first, Jeffrey starts by explaining the general structure of what things are necessary in the DevOps environment to enable the developer to just get something working (AKA the four essential pre-code design decisions that must be made so that any developer can write code). [9:07] Jeffrey explains what the developer scenario includes. [12:20] A word from The Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [12:46] Jeffrey makes some announcements about upcoming events and opportunities! [14:29] Jeffrey picks up his discussion on the developer scenario and finishes explaining the essential capabilities that need to be in the DevOps environment to facilitate it. [16:37] Jeffrey explains when the team scenario starts, what it includes, and what the goals of it are. [22:40] All about the support scenario: when it starts, what it includes, and the ultimate goal. [31:45] Jeffrey wraps up this week’s podcast by summarizing the three scenarios! [32:21] Be sure to pick up Jeffrey’s book, .NET DevOps for Azure, which outlines how to implement the building blocks of these three scenarios! [32:33] If you would like a few free chapter excerpts from .NET DevOps for Azure, you can email Jeffrey at Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com. Also feel free to email him if you have any follow-up questions about this episode or suggestions for future episodes!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps Bootcamp 2020 — January 16th & 17th in Austin, T.X. .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Azure DevOps Podcast: “Kathleen Dollard on Setting Up Your Machine for .NET Core — Episode 69” Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s episode marks the end of 2019 as well as over a year of Azure DevOps Podcasts!   In today’s final episode of 2019, Kathleen Dollard joins the podcast to discuss setting up your machine for .NET Core! Kathleen is a Principal Program Programmer at Microsoft, a long-time developer, and a national conference speaker. She’s been at Microsoft for a little over two years now and is an expert in C#, .NET and ASP.NET, SQL Server, and Visual Basic. She’s also the author of the book, Code Generation in Microsoft .NET (published in 2004), which put forth principles of metaprogramming that are still valid today!   Tune in to hear Kathleen as she highlights all the important, key pieces listeners should consider when diving into the world of .NET Core for the first time, a peak under the covers of what’s currently going on behind the scenes of .NET Core from Kathleen’s perspective, and how you can most effectively set up your machine for .NET Core today!   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [1:06] Jeffrey gives a quick announcement. [1:18] About today’s episode! [1:34] Jeffrey welcomes Kathleen to the show. [2:43] Kathleen speaks about the journey of her career and how she’s come to work on the .NET Core team at Microsoft. [5:05] Kathleen speaks about her experience as a language expert. [6:54] From Kathleen’s perspective, does she .NET Core 3.1 as the new wave? I.e. if you’ve been waiting, now is the time to move to it? And how complete is it? [10:34] Kathleen and Jeffrey talk about the migration of classic ASP applications. [13:26] What do people need to start thinking about when setting up their machine for .NET Core? Kathleen also highlights a recent bug and how to get around it! [25:00] A word from The Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [25:28] Jeffrey highlights some exciting announcements! [27:11] Why does Kathleen think that Visual Studio Code is more popular than Visual Studio 2019? [28:52] Kathleen talks about some of their work behind-the-scenes. [30:55] Kathleen shares some key information for those who distribute WinForms applications. [32:05] Kathleen is open to hearing listeners’ ideas! Feel free to reach out to give her your feedback! [32:45] Kathleen speaks about their uninstall tool in the works and where to get a hold of the beta. [34:48] In Kathleen’s opinion, what would cause someone to choose a new WinForms app .NET Core versus a WPF Core app? [38:53] Kathleen shares what the .NET Core team is up to right now. [40:00] Kathleen highlights some additional resources and gives some advice for those planning on making the .NET Core plunge! [43:43] Jeffrey thanks Kathleen for joining the podcast!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps Bootcamp 2020 — January 16th & 17th in Austin, T.X. .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Code Generation in Microsoft .NET, by Kathleen Dollard .NET Core Visual Basic (VB) Rosalind NuGet MSBuild JSON Visual Studio Code Visual Studio 2019 Dotnet.Microsoft.com/download/dotnet-core/current/runtime/desktop Blazor GitHub.com/dotnet/CLI-lab MSIX   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

This week on the podcast, Jeffrey Palermo is joined by Sudhanva Huruli, a Program Manager at Microsoft. He’s currently a maintainer on the Open Application Model and has been at Microsoft now for 2 years. In the past, he’s also worked on Microsoft's distributed systems platform (Service Fabric), led the effort for their Java developer offering, and helped design and build a product to provide visibility into the status of rollouts to any core Azure services.   In this episode, Jeffrey and Sudhanva explore the topic of the Open Application Model. Sudhanva explains what an OAM is, how it is different from a regular app, the major parts that make it up, the problems it solves, and what is on roadmap for the future of the OAM.   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes! [:53] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements! [1:10] About today’s episode! [1:25] Jeffrey welcomes Sudhanva Huruli to the show! [1:32] Sudhanva shares his career journey thus far. [3:01] Sudhanva explains how they think about the distributed systems platform architecturally and the core thinking behind OAM. [3:57] Sudhanva describes what exactly an Open Application Model (OAM) is. [4:42] How is the open app model different from how you’d describe a regular app? [6:35] What was the challenge that led to the genesis of the Open Application Mode? [9:03] Sudhanva defines OAM, spec, and implementation. [9:49] Is the spec available on GitHub? What’s currently available? [10:22] How would developers create implementations? And what implementations are out there so far? [11:47] What are their plans with Azure? [12:55] Sudhanva provides “cliff notes” of the OAM spec for listeners and explains the three major parts: application scopes, the component model, and traits. [15:55] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [16:22] Jeffrey gives some brief announcements! [18:04] Jeffrey and Sudhanva give more clarification to the component that’s within the OAM spec. [19:26] Jeffrey and Sudhanva reiterate the key points around the traits within the OAM spec. [20:46] Is OAM taking a step towards solving the problem of knowing the health scope of all the components within an application? If so, how? [28:56] Sudhanva highlights some of the big lessons and solutions that haven’t been acted upon yet but are on the roadmap. [31:49] Sudhanva speaks about what their main goal is at the end of the day. [33:39] Sudhanva highlight some valuable resources for listeners. [36:05] Jeffrey thanks Sudhanva for joining the podcast.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps Bootcamp 2020 — January 16th & 17th in Austin, T.X. .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Sudhanva Huruli’s LinkedIn Azure Service Fabric Mesh Alibaba Dapr Kubernetes OpenAppModel.io Cloud-Native App Platform (CNAP) Rust Cloud-Native Computing Foundation (CNCF) The Azure DevOps Podcast Ep: “Mark on Fussell on the Distributed Application Runtime on Dapr” aka.ms/msigniteondemand (Look for Mark Russinovich’s Sessions) github.com/oam-dev   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

In today’s episode, Elton Stoneman is joining the podcast! Elton is an Architect at Docker and an Azure MVP. He’s currently in the process of writing his new book, Learn Docker in a Month of Lunches, which already has 9 chapters up online! It’s a completely accessible, task-focused guide to Docker on Linux, Windows, or Mac Systems.   Elton started his career as a .NET Consultant and, as he says, ‘Spent the last 10 years building big, ugly monolithic apps which [he] now spends his time teaching people how to break apart!’ He soon became heavily interested in Docker and when the company had an opening for an Advocate, he reached out and joined their marketing team. After doing that for a couple of years, he became an Architect on their partnership team.   Docker has exploded in both popularity and usage. And since this is completely Elton’s world, Jeffrey picks his brain in this episode to learn more about the design philosophy around it and the strategy behind it all!   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes! [:48] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements! [1:00] About today’s episode! [1:38] Jeffrey welcomes Elton to the show! [1:44] Elton speaks about his current progress on his upcoming book, Learn Docker in a Month of Lunches. [2:20] Elton speaks about how he ended up in this space and what his journey has been thus far. [5:04] Elton elaborates on the problems that Docker solves and explains some of the strategies behind it all. [9:40] Elton speaks about the practical differences between the Linux ecosystem of containers and the Windows ecosystem of containers. [12:56] Elton speaks about the new change of Windows supporting Kubernetes and what that means for Docker. [14:25] Elton shares his stance on what file format he thinks the future will go to and what he sees people using now when they’re packaging up different applications for deployment. [18:17] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [18:40] Jeffrey gives some brief announcements. [20:20] Jeffrey poses a scenario to Elton: if your application is a Windows service and it’s 10MB, how big is that Docker image going to be that is the release candidate? [22:06] How big should you expect the images to be if the application inside is 10MB? [25:30] How much uptake is Elton seeing on the Windows containers? [27:15] From an architectural strategy perspective, what does Elton and those at Docker think about when it makes more sense to use a Paz service versus a container? [31:04] In the future, does Elton foresee containers becoming the new normal to the extent of being baked right into the infrastructure of services in a way that most people won’t even know that they’re there? [32:58] Elton speaks about their efforts to make Docker as simple as possible. [35:05] What languages are the examples from Elton’s book, Learn Docker in a Month of Lunches, being delivered in? [36:21] Elton recommends some go-to resources for listeners! [37:36] Jeffrey thanks Elton for joining the podcast.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps Bootcamp 2020 — January 16th & 17th in Austin, T.X. .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! .NET Conf 2019 Docker on Windows: From 101 to production with Docker on Windows, by Elton Stoneman Elton Stoneman’s Blog Elton Stoneman’s Pluralsight Courses Elton Stoneman’s LinkedIn Elton Stoneman’s Twitter: @EltonStoneman Kubernetes Multi-Stage Builds (Docker) Microsoft Ignite Conference AKS Docker Captains Dak4.net Learn Docker in a Month of Lunches, by Elton Stoneman — You can read the first several chapters here! And use discount code podazdev19 for 40% off (which is good for all Manning products in all formats)! Five free eBook codes (in MEAP so you can redeem them right now!): docppr-B6EE docppr-EDA2 docppr-B74D docppr-A095 docppr-84A2   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

In this week’s episode, Jeffrey Palermo welcomes Mark Fussell on to the podcast! Mark works on the Azure Compute team and is the Product Manager for the new Dapr framework (AKA the Distributed Application Runtime.) He has been working at Microsoft for the last 19 years and has been a passionate advocate for building microservice-based applications for the last 10 years. He has a proven track record of building innovative computing platforms, running large scale cloud services, and starting new million-dollar businesses within corporations. Today, they’re going to be discussing Dapr, a new open-source project, and what it can do for developers. Mark explains how Dapr makes it easier for developers to build microservice-based applications, some of the use cases for Dapr, what the current level of maturity for Dapr is right now (and what you can start using it for today vs. what it will be able to do in the future), and how the idea of Dapr first came about.   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes! [:58] About today’s episode! [1:31] Jeffrey welcomes Mark to the show! [1:44] Mark speaks about his current role and what his journey has been leading up to it. [4:24] Mark explains some of the difficulties developers face when transitioning to building services (rather than applications.) [9:32] How did Dapr come about? And what problem does it solve? [13:35] Are there certain use cases that Dapr is more (and less) focused on? [17:38] In a normal situation for a synchronized webservice call between A and B, A would have to have a configuration setting for the address of B. Does Dapr change that? [18:32] Mark provides an example where Dapr fits in very well using Azure Functions. [20:53] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [21:19] Jeffrey gives some brief announcements. [23:00] Is it correct to say that the developer experience to be able to consume an event or a call is just to write a method of C# and then Dapr invokes it? [25:28] Jeffrey and Mark talk simple use cases for Dapr. [28:29] Can Dapr use any other storage provider you configure whether it be Azure Queue or SQL Database? [30:47] What’s the current level of maturity of Dapr now? And what should people start using it for now vs. what they could use it for in the future? [33:47] Are they any big upcoming announcements about Dapr on the horizon? [39:44] Jeffrey thanks Mark for joining the podcast! [40:07] Mark urges listener to join the Dapr community.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps Bootcamp 2020 — January 16th & 17th in Austin, T.X. .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Pre-order on Amazon here! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Mark Fussell’s LinkedIn Mark Fussell’s Twitter: @MFussell Dapr Dapr on GitHub  Dapr Community on GitHub OAM (Open Application Model) Dapr Community on GitterAzure Service Fabric Kubernetes Azure Functions NServiceBus MassTransit Azure Queue Storage SQL Database Willow   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Just a few short weeks ago, Microsoft held its Ignite conference. Over 29k people filled the Orange County Convention Center in Orlando, FL. It was a very energy-filled week! And your host, Jeffrey Palermo, had the privilege of being on staff this year as a part of the Community Reporter Team.   The night before the conference, Jeffrey hosted a Party with Palermo event — an event he has been doing since 2005 (with the first one being just an open call to gather for dinner at a hotel restaurant!) Since then, he’s had at least one Party with Palermo every year following — this year being no exception.   In this episode, Jeffrey interviews a number of people at the party. And hopefully, you’ll find just a few more community leaders to follow after listening to today’s show!   Topics of Discussion: [:38] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes! [:47] About today’s special episode! [2:18] Kicking off the first of the interviews, Jeffrey first speaks with Greg Leonardo and David Neal! [3:06] David speaks about what he is looking forward to during Microsoft Ignite. [3:46] David plugs the company he works for, Okta! [4:22] Greg speaks about what he’s doing this week at Microsoft Ignite. [5:28] Jeffrey thanks David and Greg for joining him. [5:46] Jeffrey’s next guests, Stan Schultes and Sarah Hand, introduce themselves and share what they’re looking forward to during the party and conference. [8:08] Jeffrey welcomes on his next guest, Walt Richard! [9:31] Walt speaks about what he’ll be doing at the conference and what he’s most interested in checking out. [11:30] Jeffrey thanks Walt for joining him. [11:36] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [12:00] Jeffrey gives some brief announcements. [13:45] Jeffrey’s next guest, John Callaway, introduces himself. [14:35] John shares his plans for this week at Ignite. [15:22] Jeffrey thanks John for joining! [15:25] Jeffrey’s next guest, Constantine, introduces himself. [15:35] Constantine shares what he is looking forward to at Microsoft Ignite. [18:00] Jeffrey thanks Constantine for joining him. [18:03] Scott Cate, Jeffrey’s next guest, introduces himself and explains what he’s doing at Microsoft Ignite this week! [23:18] Jeffrey welcomes on his next guest, Damian Brady! [23:44] Damian speaks about his focus for the week of the conference. [23:59] Damian speaks about his current role at Microsoft and what he’s been up to lately with his work. [27:35] Jeffrey welcomes Laurent Bugnion to the podcast! [27:46] Laurent speaks about the talks he’s going to be doing at Microsoft Ignite. [31:04] Laurent gives the sessions code for those looking to later stream his sessions from the conference. [31:34] Laurent gives his social media handles so you can follow him online! [31:58] Jeffrey closes out this week’s show.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps Bootcamp 2020 — January 16th & 17th in Austin, T.X. .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Pre-order on Amazon here! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Microsoft Ignite Conference  AKA.MS/MSIgniteOnDemand — Visit to watch sessions from the Microsoft Ignite conference! O’Reilly MediaDavid Neal ReverentGeek.com Greg LeonardoTampa Community Connect Okta VetsinTechStan SchultesSara Hand Spark Growth John Callaway The 6 Figure Developer Podcast with John Callaway Scott Hunter Scott Cate Damian Brady Laurent Bugnion Laurent Bugnion’s Twitter   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Joining Jeffrey Palermo on the show today is John Campbell, a Director of Process and Solutions Architect at Anaqua! John has been with Anaqua for just over 3 years but has been in the industry for more than 20. He originally started out as a developer but is now leading several teams in the architecting of solutions for application features, is responsible for introducing and implementing SCRUM and agile principles across the organization, and is enabling his team with DevOps practices to ease the development and deployment of work being done (as well as to improve overall productivity!)   In today’s episode, John is telling his DevOps success story. His story is one of a software system that has been developed for 15 years; a monolithic architecture that is deployed as a website and a SQL server database. And now, he’s gotten to the point where deploying is no big deal at all! Tune in to hear John share all the details of his journey and how he got it to the system to this point — as well as the next big steps on his journey (because the journey to excellence is never finished!)   Topics of Discussion: [:38] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes! [:48] Jeffrey gives a few quick announcements. [1:01] About today’s guest, John Campbell [1:20] Jeffrey welcomes John on to the show! [1:36] John explains gives an overview of what Anaqua does and how he got to this place in his career. [3:59] John gets more in-depth about the scale of Anaqua. [6:05] John gives an overview of the general shape of the system (such as how many databases, datastores, and headless offline processes there are, etc.) [7:27] Fast-forward to today, John speaks about what the experience is like when he needs to make a change and how fast he has been able to get their cycle time. [10:23] How many years did this system go without any automated tests? [10:31] John speaks about the unit tests they currently do and what that looks like. [17:03] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [17:30] Jeffrey makes some announcements about upcoming events! [19:11] Jeffrey and John speak about headless browsers. [20:22] John speaks about the database and how they do deployments from it now. [23:14] John speaks a bit about their lengthy integration build and the steps that need to happen to go from raw source code to a deployable artifact. He also highlights the critical steps that are important to their system in particular. [28:16] John speaks about what their current cycle looks like for an easy change (where it’s clear what to do). [29:51] Often companies just need their technology to be able to keep up with the pace of the business. John speaks about this and then shares some of the challenges that they face. [30:48] John shares the next big steps on his journey! [32:30] Is the system slowly transitioning to .NET Core? [33:45] Many teams are struggling with a large codebase that they’ve inherited or architectural decisions that they wish that they could change quicker than they can. John offers some words of encouragement in regards to this! [35:25] Jeffrey thanks John for joining him in this episode!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps Bootcamp 2020 — January 16th & 17th in Austin, T.X. .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Pre-order on Amazon here! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Azure DevOps ASP.NET Core Anaqua John Campbell’s LinkedIn John’s Twitch Channel Donovan Brown’s Blog Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com - Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) PhantomJS DACPAC   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Matt Mitchell is the lead engineer of the .NET Core Engineering Services Team at Microsoft. Matt joined Microsoft in 2006 after two years as an intern from 2004-05. Right out of the gate he did all C++ Compiler work for about 8 years. Eventually, his work morphed into working on the opensource infrastructure for .NET Core — which is what he’s doing now!   In today’s episode, Jeffrey and Matt are taking a look into DevOps on the .NET Core Engineering Services Team! Matt dissects what Engineering Services is and what they’re responsible for, some of the different system types within .NET Core, an overview of the .NET Core infrastructure and how they go about building and testing, and much more! Tune in to hear all of Matt’s key insights around .NET Core and the Engineering Services Team.   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes! [:48] Jeffrey gives a few quick announcements. [1:00] About today’s guest, Matt Mitchell! [1:20] Jeffrey welcomes Matt on to the show! [1:26] Matt speaks about his career journey and how he landed his current position at Microsoft. [3:02] Matt dissects what Engineering Services is, how it differs from .NET Framework Engineering Services Team and other teams, and what exactly they’re responsible for. [6:16] How many Git repositories overall make up .NET Core? And how do they organize that? [13:58] Matt explains some of the different system types within .NET Core. [17:11] With having 20 repositories now, does Matt foresee an event where they might have to introduce a 21st repository? And does his team provide guidance on how that would need to be set up if that was needed? [20:05] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [20:30] Jeffrey makes some announcements about upcoming events! [21:09] Matt provides an overview of the .NET Core infrastructure and how they go about building and testing. [26:00] Architecturally, the MS build tasks are the way that individual teams are provided with the tools to call so they don’t have to duplicate that logic in their build scripts. So, for YAML files, is it just template guidance but that logic is duplicated in each repository? [32:20] Matt explains why choosing the right number of repositories is one of the biggest ways to absolve some difficulties. [35:16] Matt provides some examples of content-based systems. [38:19] Matt recommends some resources to check out after listening to this week’s podcast!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps Bootcamp 2020 — January 16th & 17th in Austin, T.X. .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Pre-order on Amazon here! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! “The Evolving Infrastructure of .NET Core,” by Matt Mitchell (on the Microsoft .NET Blog) Announcement of .NET Core Repository Consolidation Timeline for Runtime Repository Microsoft Phoenix Midori Roslyn CompilerBuildXL GitHub Repository   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.