Azure & DevOps Podcast

Joining Jeffrey Palermo today is the CTO of ROCeteer, Heather Wilde — who is also known as the “Unicorn Whisperer” due to her special focus on entrepreneurs. She is also a personal and professional Growth Expert, Executive Coach, Non-profit Director, author, and speaker.   Heather has an impressive laundry list of qualifications and experience in various fields! She is affiliated with three entrepreneurial accelerators, has worked with governments on economic development projects for over 20 years, is a Howard R. Hughes College of Engineering Advisory Board Chair, and has worked with the U.S. Navy, NASA, and both state and local governments around the world. She was also an early employee of Spirit Airlines, a founding member of Evernote, and was one of the only women to have programmed, produced, and published a game at THQ. She has received many awards for serving as a mentor, coach, executive, entrepreneur, writer, business role model, and many, many more.   In this episode, Jeffrey and Heather are diving into the topic of managing remote teams! Throughout her career, Heather has had a ton of experience managing remote teams. She shares her personal experiences, some of the ins and outs she learned along the way, tips and tricks, her go-to resources and tools for remote working, and shares some lessons and stories from her career!   Topics of Discussion: [:38] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:45] About Jeffrey’s upcoming .NET DevOps Bootcamp in Austin, Texas on April 30th and his free 30-point DevOps inspection. [1:34] About today’s episode and guest. [3:05] Jeffrey welcomes Heather to the show! [3:47] Heather speaks about her fascinating background and early career. [6:45] Heather shares some more of her background and career milestones that really shaped her into the person that she is today. [8:55] When did Heather shift from being a programmer and writing code all day to managing and leading other programmers and teams? [11:29] Heather tells the interesting story of how she came to be a founding member of Evernote! [15:53] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [16:20] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [18:10] When Heather first joined Evernote, how did she set up her workstation while living on a boat? [20:02] Did Heather have to build her team at Evernote or did she inherit a team? [21:11] Living in Mexico at the time, how was Heather hiring employees location-wise? And how was she getting them all set up? [22:46] Heather shares some of the tips and tricks she has learned about working remotely. [26:37] Did some of the remote employees require assistance when it came to setting up their at-home workstation? [27:52] Fast-forward to today’s infrastructure and tools, what are Heather’s go-to selections? [33:35] Heather recommends some resources to check out regarding remote working. [34:24] Jeffrey thanks Heather for joining the podcast!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! ROCeteerEvernote THQ Zoom Slack Heather Wilde’s Articles in Inc. Magazine   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

As listeners already know, The Azure DevOps Podcast is for developers shipping software with Microsoft technologies — and in today’s episode, Jeffrey Palermo is joined by someone who makes said technology!   Ryan Demopoulos is a Program Manager Lead working on the Windows developer platform, specifically on the GUI stack. If you use buttons and textboxes, Ryan helps make that happen. He's been at Microsoft for 13 years and has been in the UX space the whole time.   In this episode, Jeffrey and Ryan discuss WinUI in-depth. Ryan explains what it is, the changes and developments he has seen (and been a part of) over the course of his career, where he sees it heading in 10 years time, details of the release roadmap, cross-platform development, what the team is currently working on — and a whole lot more!   Topics of Discussion: [:38] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:47] About Jeffrey’s upcoming .NET DevOps Bootcamp in Austin, Texas on April 30th and his free 30-point DevOps inspection. [1:04] About today’s episode and guest! [1:44] Jeffrey welcomes Ryan to the show. [4:52] Ryan speaks about some of the changes he’s seen with WinUI over the course of his career as well as what he has personally worked on. [8:07] What is WinUI? [12:34] Which apps are you targetting with WinUI? And which ones are you not? [16:21] Ryan gives an update on the Windows development landscape and shares whether or not it’s on a growth trend. [19:20] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [19:43] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [22:09] Where does Ryan see WinUI in 10 years? And what are some general predictions for the future of it, going forward? [25:33] Ryan shares some details of the release roadmap of WinUI. [29:05] Will WinUI be available for more than just the Windows platform in the future? [31:01] Jeffrey tosses a scenario Ryan’s way and asks whether they will be testing such a scenario in the future development of WinUI. [32:32] If, in the future, WinUI is compatible with WebAssembly, could it be possible that a WPF application could be accessible via a URL? [35:22] The drawbacks of the web. [36:00] Jeffrey gives his feedback on Ryan’s vision for the future of WinUI. [36:27] What the WinUI team is currently focused on. [37:42] Ryan recommends resources for listeners if they want to learn more. [39:35] Jeffrey thanks Ryan for joining the podcast!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Ryan’s Twitter: @RyanDemopoulos AKA.MS/WinUI Microsoft Silverlight XAML Islands Microsoft Build WebAssembly UWP Discord Server   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

In this week’s episode, Jeffrey Palermo is talking to Jonathan Mills — a Pluralsight Author, Technology Advisor, and Business Leader!    As a member of the Multi-Cloud Team team at World Wide Technology, Jonathan is able to leverage his unique experiences and skills to drive Cloud migrations for his clients. He is also a dedicated developer community leader, serving on the Board of Directors for the Kansas City Developers Conference, regularly speaking and giving keynote presentations at conferences around the globe, and is a Microsoft MVP.   Today, Jeffrey and Jonathan talk about the upcoming Kansas City Developers Conference held June 29th-July 1st in 2020, his fascinating day job as a Cloud Architect at World Wide Technology, and data architecture in Azure!   Topics of Discussion: [:38] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:48] About Jeffrey’s upcoming .NET DevOps Bootcamp in Austin, Texas on April 30th. [1:11] About today’s episode and guest! [1:52] Jeffrey welcomes Jonathan to the show. [2:07] Jonathan shares the story of his career journey. [4:12] What is the Kansas City Developers Conference? [7:49] Are tickets still available for the conference? [8:27] When the conference is held and about the special extra day just for kids! [11:08] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [11:33] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [13:23] Jonathan explains his day job as a Cloud Architect at World Wide Technology. [16:36] Jonathan speaks about the common problems their clients face and what issues they solve for them. [20:20] Jonathan breaks down the categories of data stores and what he recommends to different clients. [23:43] How different is Azure Data Warehouse from the on-premise SQL Server Analysis Services? [24:40] Jonathan shares his philosophy on how and when to know what tooling to use. [26:03] Jonathan gives his experience with low-code and no-code solutions such as Power Apps and Flow. [29:45] If listeners want to learn more, what go-to resources does Jonathan recommend? [31:41] Jeffrey thanks Jonathan for joining the podcast!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Jonathan Mill’s LinkedIn Jonathan Mill on Pluralsight World Wide Technology Kansas City Developers Conference Kansas City Women in Technology Azure Cosmos DB Azure Data Lake Analytics Azure Synapse Analytics Microsoft Power Apps Microsoft Flow Docs.Microsoft.com Pluralsight A Cloud Guru   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s guest is Iain Foulds — a Senior Content Developer at Microsoft, focused on Azure technologies. He has spent more than a decade in the field as an engineer building and running virtualization environments, including Cloud solutions. Since 2014 at Microsoft, Iain has been supporting and enabling customers to successfully run workloads in Azure. He is also the author of the book, Learn Azure in a Month of Lunches, which gets readers up and running quickly by teaching them the most important tasks and concepts and tasks about Azure in 21 practical bite-sized lessons.   In this episode, Iain takes listeners through the basics of learning Azure and some of the fantastic content in his book, Learn Azure in a Month of Lunches, which is now on its second edition. Iain highlights some of the key decision points, clears up common misunderstandings, gives actionable tips, and provides further recommendations on where to learn more. Tune in to get up to date on learning Azure!   Topics of Discussion: [:38] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:47] About today’s guest, Iain Foulds. [1:29] Jeffrey welcomes Iain to the podcast! [1:39] Iain speaks about his career journey and how he has ended up in his current role at Microsoft. [3:23] Iain speaks about the genesis of his book, Learn Azure in a Month of Lunches, and gives an overview of what it covers. [5:14] Part 4 of Iain’s book is titled “The Cool Stuff” — what is the cool stuff? [6:41] Under Part 4, one of the chapters is on Azure automation. What are the cliff notes? [8:35] Iain gives the taxonomy of the terms playbook and runbook, and explains how they relate to each other. [16:41] Iain speaks about the decision points on where to store a credential in relation to securing information with Azure Key Vault. [19:01] Iain gives his thought process on the team workflow of Azure Key Vault vs. things like LastPass. [20:32] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [20:58] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [22:47] Iain clears up some common misunderstandings and misconceptions about Azure networking basics. [25:46] How does Iain advise people on making decisions around resource governance? [28:44] Are there downsides to the side of the spectrum where you have a lot of subscriptions but only one or two resource groups per subscription? [30:25] Iain speaks about the changes that are coming to the second edition of his book, Learn Azure in a Month of Lunches! [31:49] Iain speaks about the content he develops at Microsoft. [33:05] Iain gives his recommendations on further learning about Azure. [34:36] About the early access program for his book on Manning Publications. [36:01] Does Iain have any go-to methods or recommendations for clearing out his subscriptions? [38:23] Jeffrey thanks Iain for joining this week’s episode!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Iain Foulds’ Twitter @Fouldsy Learn Azure in a Month of Lunches, by Iain Foulds Azure Key Vault LastPassDocs.Microsoft.com  Microsoft Learn   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

This week on the podcast, Jeffrey Palermo is joined by an old friend of his, Paul Sheriff! Paul is a Business Technology Consultant and has over thirty years of experience architecting information systems. He is a top-notch instructor, a Pluralsight author with 20+ courses on topics ranging from Angular, MVC, WPF, XML, jQuery to Bootstrap; and is a speaker at many different conferences and user groups around the world. Paul has also published 300+ articles and has authored over 14 books on topics ranging from C#, SQL Server and many .NET technologies!   With so many episodes of the Azure DevOps Podcast, there’s yet to be an episode focused entirely on architecture! So for today’s episode, Jeffrey is sitting down with Paul to discuss all things architecture. They discuss Paul’s career, what it means to be an architect, his take on the different titles and levels an architect can hold in the software industry, his favorite architecture, key aspects of an architect, and some key insights for those looking to pursue the architect career track.   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:42] About today’s guest, Paul Sheriff. [1:40] Jeffrey welcomes Paul to the podcast. [2:40] Paul speaks about his career trajectory. [4:22] What does it mean to be an architect? And how is it different from programming? [7:06] Paul gives his take on the different titles and levels an architect can hold in the industry. [9:46] Paul shares some of the things he thinks about when deciding how big systems need to be put together and structured for desktop applications. [13:15] Where listeners can go to find Paul’s favorite architecture. [14:19] Paul compares and contrasts the role of an architect and drafter in the building world to that in the software industry. He also explains how he thinks architects should be drafting their architecture. [16:00] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [16:25] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [18:13] Paul shares his favorite diagramming or visualization method for transmitting ideas before getting to the code level. [20:06] Does Paul think it’s important for a team to have shared libraries and frameworks that they use from application to application? Or is it better to have the patterns and not bring the actual code from project to project? [24:35] What’s the best way for an organization that has multiple small teams to actually set an architecture vision and then inspect? [27:34] Jeffrey and Paul highlight the key concepts that make up the architecture role. [29:13] Which architecture patterns does Paul think might shift over because of the programming model that Blazor brings in the browser? [34:26] Paul shares what he’s currently up to. [35:45] Where to find Paul’s courses online! [37:35] Jeffrey and Paul share their final words about pursuing the architect track. [38:37] Jeffrey thanks Paul for joining this week’s episode!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Paul Sheriff’s Website (PDSA.com) Paul Sheriff on GitHub Paul Sheriff on Pluralsight Paul Sheriff’s Email: psheriff@pdsa.com Visual Studio Live! Conference (VSLive!) The Azure DevOps Podcast: Mark Dunn on Developer Retirement - Episode 75   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s guest is Jeremy Likness — an internationally selling author, keynote speaker, and professional coder with a personal mission to empower developers to be their best! Jeremy has worked on commercial enterprise software for 25 years and specializes in web technology. Currently, he is also a Sr. Cloud Developer Advocate for Microsoft, but previously held roles at iVision, Wintellect, and AirWatch. In his free time however, he enjoys running, hiking, and shooting nine-ball and one-pocket.   In today’s episode, Jeffrey and Jeremy discuss DevOps Automation. Jeremy shares his philosophy on starting a new project, provides key insights about Azure DevOps Services, speaks about what is new with Azure DevOps in general, gives his thoughts on GitHub Actions, explains how he’s utilizing Azure ARM templates, and shares some of his best practices and go-to resources.   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [1:08] About today’s guest, Jeremy Likness. [1:49] Jeffrey welcomes Jeremy to the podcast. [1:40] Jeremy describes two of his favorite hobbies: nine-ball and one-pocket. [3:15] Jeremy speaks about his career and how it has progressed over the years. [8:11] Jeremy speaks about his current role at Microsoft and what Cloud Advocate really means. [9:51] Jeremy shares his philosophy on starting a project. [13:58] Jeremy provides some key insights when bringing Azure DevOps Services into the mix. [15:41] What’s new in Azure DevOps in general? [20:38] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [21:03] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [22:52] Jeremy gives his thoughts on GitHub Actions. [25:48] Jeremy speaks about what the experience is like with GitHub Actions when you have a release candidate that you’re deploying to your environments (environment 1, environment 2, etc.), all the way up to production. He also provides some examples. [28:14] When deploying, is Jeremy still using Azure ARM templates? Or does he use a mix of things to provision his infrastructure? [34:55] Jeremy gives a quick piece of random nostalgia from his past. [35:47] Jeremy’s go-to resources to learn more about the topics discussed on today’s show. [37:45] Where to get in touch with Jeremy! [38:15] Jeffrey thanks Jeremy for joining him in this episode.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Jeremy Likness’ Blog Jeremy Likness’ Twitter Jeremy Likness’ LinkedIn Jeremy Likness’ GitHub Jeremy’s Email: Jeremy.Likness@Microsoft.com Azure DevOps Services Abel Wang The Azure DevOps Podcast: “Abel Wang on DevOps Infrastructure - Episode 73” Hugo GitHub Actions Azure Resource Manager (ARM) Microsoft Ignite Blazor Docs.Microsoft.com/en-us/Learn   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

This week on the podcast, Jeffrey Palermo had the pleasure of visiting with Mark Dunn to record today’s show! Mark is a long-time developer and software architect who was an original co-host on the .NET Rocks podcast that started back in 2002. Mark is a Microsoft Certified Trainer, Application Developer, Solution Developer for .NET, and Database Administrator; and has over 30 years of experience in the disciplines of Software Engineering, Database Administration, and Project Management.    Since 2003, Mark has been awarded MVP (Microsoft Most Valuable Professional) status for his contributions to the Visual Studio and .NET Community. He has also traveled all over the world delivering training in the areas of .NET and Database Development, Project Management and Client-Side Development. Outside of the tech industry, Mark owns an Angus cattle farm in Alabama and is often found playing the drums!   In Jeffrey’s and Mark’s conversation today they discuss what a developer’s retirement looks like! Mark considers himself currently ‘semi-retired’ with the goal of fully retiring 3 years down the line. He provides training and mentoring through his company, Dunn Training, teaching courses on Azure, Modern Web Development, ASP .NET, .NET Programming, Databases, Java, and more. Mark also takes listeners down memory lane, reminiscing about the progress in the industry, his career as a programmer, and the changes he’s seen in DevOps.   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:48] About today’s guest, Mark Dunn! [2:20] Jeffrey welcomes Mark to the podcast. [3:09] Mark provides some background on his career and shares some highlights! [4:50] What the industry was like when Mark was just starting out as a programmer. [11:36] Mark speaks about what a longtime programmer’s retirement looks like (as someone who is currently ‘semi-retired’!) He also shares what his goals are for the future and what he’s currently up to. [16:07] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [16:34] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [18:22] With the perspective of having seen so many paradigms of software, how has that colored Mark’s view of the modern DevOps movement? [22:30] Mark reads a lot of books as a trainer… but has he authored any books? [23:54] Mark speaks about some of the aspects of training and teaching his courses. [25:20] Mark speaks about recording .NET Rocks Podcast and the joys of interviewing people in the industry. [26:22] Mark gives his predictions on what he thinks is most likely to happen in the industry of custom software and what will become more and more important for current programmers to know/learn. [29:09] Does Mark find that the technology landscape is starting to contract after exploding? [31:11] Mark shares his plan for the next few years and what his transition into retirement will look like. [33:16] How long will Mark be keeping up his mentoring service? [34:40] What Mark hopes to do in retirement. [35:31] Mark gives some parting advice to new programmers to have a successful career. [38:01] Jeffrey thanks Mark for joining him in this episode!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Dunn Training (Mark’s Company) .NET Rocks Podcast Dan Appleman’s Books Selenium The Art of Unit Testing: with examples in C#, by Roy Osherove Pluralsight Udemy Scott Guthrie   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s guest is Jeffrey Opdam, an ALM Ranger, which is a recognized group related to the Azure DevOps Product Team at Microsoft. Jeffrey loves doing crazy continuous delivery stuff with TFS, VSTS, Azure DevOps — including coaching. He also loves DDD and CQRS and does Software Architect integrated with DevOps. But, most importantly, he’s a proud dad!   In this episode, Jeffrey is speaking on the topic of Azure DevOps with AWS. He shares his career journey and many of the experiences he has gained as the owner of Lean Phoenix, a company that is dedicated to helping its customers build high-quality software and services.    Jeffrey has a wealth of experience in software architect and has done some pretty interesting projects in his career. Be sure to listen in to hear Jeffrey’s key insights on integrating Azure DevOps with AWS!   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:48] About today’s guest, Jeffrey Opdam! [1:35] Jeffrey welcomes Jeffrey Opdam to the podcast. [1:52] Jeffrey speaks about his career journey and some of the important moments that have really shaped it. [3:27] Jeffrey speaks about how in his current projects he’s doing a lot with making Cloud resources, having AWS do his bidding, and actually governing the DevOps environment with the Azure DevOps product but with the software environments in AWS. [4:24] Is Jeffrey using Azure DevOps Services or Server? [4:31] Are all the agents VMs inside AWS? [4:47] What type of system is Jeffrey’s team working on at Lean Phoenix? [5:43] Jeffrey speaks about how it is not just one application, but actually a DevOps environment that they have designed and implemented for an entire ecosystem of applications for multiple teams. [6:50] Roughly, how many software applications and how many builds per day does their system run? [7:22] Jeffrey speaks about how they’re integrating Azure DevOps with AWS so that it’s done in a trusted manner. [8:28] How does Jeffrey manage spinning up all the images and maintaining them? [9:29] For Windows to spin up a new agent does it lie in AWS rather than Azure DevOps? [10:16] Before Jeffrey designed and implemented this system, what was it like for the teams? [12:11] Does Jeffrey agree with the sentiment that “builds are really just a big test”? [13:11] Are all of Jeffrey’s pre-production and production environments for all of the software systems all in AWS? [13:39] Jeffrey shares what he has learned through automatically deploying a variety of applications with varying architectures. [15:14] If Jeffrey were to help a team get the next new application up and running, what would be his advice for the most flexible and drama-free environment shape to choose in AWS? [16:55] In the same scenario, what would he recommend for web applications and SQL server databases? [17:40] Jeffrey sheds some light on the differences between Docker and Kubernetes in AWS. [19:22] A quick word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [19:50] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [21:39] With so many applications at Jeffrey’s firm, how long should someone expect it to take for a developer to develop the first feature when it comes to starting a new application? [23:04] What were the points of standardization at Jeffrey’s firm? [23:43] In Azure DevOps, is Jeffrey using the new YAML format or is he using the step-based pipeline format? [25:00] Jeffrey gives his take on the kinds of people that say they’re just going to log in to AWS and create the environments using their browser. [26:26] Does Jeffrey advocate provisioning environments from the get-go from script rather than designing the environments and then planning to script it out sometime later? [27:05] Jeffrey speaks about his favorite provisioning tool at the moment. [28:55] Once you provision an environment, what mechanism do you use to migrate it or change something about the environment? [31:50] Do they deploy firewall rules automatically? [32:54] Jeffrey shares another effort that they did at Lean Phoenix. [34:30] Where to learn more about integrating Azure DevOps with AWS!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Amazon Web Services (AWS) Jeffrey Opdam’s LinkedIn Jeffrey Opdam’s Twitter: @LeanPhoenix Lean Phoenix Test-Driven Development: By Example, by Kent Beck  Kubernetes Docs.AWS.Amazon.com/cdk/latest/guide/home.html Pulumi   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

In this week’s podcast, Jeffrey Palermo welcomes Abel Wang on to the show! Abel Wang is a Principal Cloud Advocate specializing in DevOps and Azure with a background in application development at Microsoft. He’s also currently a part of Donovan Brown's ‘League of Extraordinary Cloud DevOps Advocates.’ Before joining Microsoft, Abel spent seven years as a Process Consultant and a Certified Scrum Master helping customers globally develop solutions using agile practices and Team Foundation Server. When he’s not working, Abel is either writing code (yes, that’s what he does for fun), playing one of his many guitars, or training for The Great Wall Marathon now that he is cancer-free!   Today, Jeffrey and Abel are discussing DevOps infrastructure. Abel highlights some of the new advances that listeners should be paying attention to as well as some of the things that they should absolutely be doing right now, speaks about being a part of Donavan Brown’s ‘League of Extraordinary Cloud DevOps Advocates,’ shares his passion for all things DevOps, and much more!   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:47] About today’s fantastic guest, Abel Wang! [1:32] Jeffrey welcomes Abel on to the podcast. [1:51] What is The Great Wall Marathon? [3:10] Jeffrey congratulates Abel on being cancer-free and Abel reflects a bit on his past year and overcoming cancer. [3:33] Abel speaks about his background in writing code and how he’s gotten to where he is today in his career. [9:17] The importance of understanding the why behind scrum and agile. [12:44] Fastforwarding into Abel’s career, he speaks about his experience at Microsoft and being a part of Donavan Brown’s ‘League of Extraordinary Cloud DevOps Advocates.’ [14:40] A quick word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [15:07] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [15:45] @TheLoECDA’s response time on Twitter. [17:07] Abel highlights some of the new advances that listeners should be paying attention to and/or absolutely be doing right now. He also defines what ‘infrastructure as code’ is. [26:27] Is there going to be integration between GitHub and AzureDevOps or are they going to be kept separate? Abel also gives his reasoning behind why Azure DevOps Services is not going anywhere! [29:14] Abel speaks about the future of being able to have the entire chain all the way through Azure through a press of a button. [31:55] Abel points listeners to his blog for listeners who want to learn more!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! Abel Wang’s Website Abel Wang on Twitter The Great Wall Marathon AgileManifesto.org Ken Schwaber Donovan Brown The League of Extraordinary Cloud DevOps Advocates Twitter @TheLoECDA Octopus DeployRedgate SQL Change Automation Continuous Integration: Improving Software Quality and Reducing Risk, by Paul M. Duvall, Steve Matyas, and Andrew Glover Terraform AI and ML GitHub Actions   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s guest is Emily Freeman who leads the modern operations team in cloud advocacy at Microsoft. She’s also the author of the recently released book, DevOps for Dummies, which guides readers through the ins and outs of DevOps. On top of this, Emily is a very talented speaker and speaks all over at many conferences and advises many cutting-edge startups and some of the largest companies in the world on DevOps, engineering leadership, and developer engagement. She is known for her creative approach to identifying and solving the human challenges of software engineering   In this episode, Emily and Jeffrey are talking about modern DevOps. Emily discusses her new book, DevOps for Dummies; the differences and similarities between the cloud advocacy area in Microsoft vs. other tech sectors when thinking about putting together a DevOps environment; where DevOps is now; changes in the industry; what makes ‘operations’ modern; and her concerns and hopes for the future of the industry.   Topics of Discussion: [:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes. [:56] About today’s guest, Emily Freeman! [1:32] Jeffrey welcomes Emily on to the podcast. [1:48] Emily talks about her new book, DevOps for Dummies, and what people can expect from it when they pick it up! [2:27] Emily shares her journey into tech and how she ended up at Microsoft. [4:24] Emily speaks about her strategy when writing DevOps for Dummies to target the newcomer to DevOps. [7:42] Why the second version/rewrite of a system always fails and why you don’t usually need to start completely from scratch. [9:25] Emily talks about her new book and the possibility of writing new books in the future. [10:27] Emily speaks about the differences and similarities between the cloud advocacy area in Microsoft vs. other tech sectors when thinking about putting together a DevOps environment. [12:06] In one of Emily’s talks, she speaks about firefighting, AKA putting out code fires. What does this mean? And how can we use this ‘firefighter’ approach to our benefit? [16:26] A quick word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [16:52] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements. [17:30] Jeffrey and Emily continue the firefighter discussion! [19:04] Where is DevOps now? Can it be defined by one definition? [23:44] Over the last 6 or 7 years there are twice as many programmers in the industry — so what does this mean for the current industry? [27:53] What other practices beyond continuous integration do people just tend to automatically reach for when they say they’re doing DevOps? [32:50] Emily shares her concerns and hopes for the industry. [36:00] Emily explains what makes ‘operations’ modern. [38:00] Emily recommends some resources to dig into more on the topics discussed today.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events! Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited! EmilyFreeman.io Emily’s Twitter: @EditingEmily DevOps for Dummies, by Emily Freeman John Allspaw Fred Brooks The Agile Manifesto Octopus Deploy Redgate SQL Change Automation The Phoenix Project: A Novel About IT, DevOps, and Helping Your Business Win, by Gene Kim, Kevin Behr, and George Spafford GitHub Actions Stack Overflow Continuous Integration: Improving Software Quality and Reducing Risk, by Paul M. Duvall, Steve Matyas, and Andrew Glover Niall Murphy Site Reliability Engineering: How Google Runs Production Systems, by Niall Richard Murphy, Betsy Beyer, Chris Jones, and Jennifer Petoff   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.