"Upstream" with Erik Torenberg

Ezra Klein, journalist, political analyst, and podcaster, sits with Erik Torenberg to go deeper into the intellectual movement of supply-side progressivism and what Silicon Valley misses about politics. This conversation was recorded in early February 2023, but is even more relevant today. If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/UPSTREAM--TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Preview of Ezra discussing Elon Musk(02:16) Unpacking supply side liberalism and the abundance agenda(07:55) Contrasting Ezra’s Buildism with Marc Andreessen and Tyler Cowen(12:20) Why we can't build(16:36) Sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire(18:47) Unions(21:06) Ezra on what Silicon Valley misunderstands about politics(24:15) Abundance agenda is bipartisan, but will polarize(27:05) Ezra on immigration and free trade(31:08) Reinterpreting Ezra’s book Why We’re Polarized in 2023(34:30) Institutional distrust(39:10) Davos elite v. Tech Elite v. Crypto Elite(47:10) What makes Elon right wing?(51:50) Chris Caldwell’s theory of polarization(01:00:15) What the president can actually do(01:07:00) Where he differs from Patrick Collison(01:10:15) Equality of opportunity vs a sufficient floor(01:16:55) Elon and the era of the trickster god(01:20:30) Ezra’s book recommendationPlease support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify | Secureframe | Mercury Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three monthsShopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. With free Shopify Magic, sell more with less effort by whipping up captivating content that converts – from blog posts to product descriptions using AI. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.- Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year.- Mercury: https://mercury.com/Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks.Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC.--This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

Balaji Srinivasan, author of The Network State and co-founder of Counsyl, talks to Erik Torenberg about his past and future predictions, the future of the left and right, and why tech will never be able to escape politics.  -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview of episode (02:30) Why are the scariest words in the English language “Balaji was right” (07:06) When to reform vs start a new institution (09:50) Are ideas weapons? (15:30) You don’t start with a tech company anymore, you start with a tech community (18:58) Internet nationalism (22:06) What "political" means (26:20 ) Activist movements are like “pump and dumps” (29:40) What the sovereign individual misses (41:03) Bitcoin is still the flag of technology (45:38) Democrats will move to the right on immigration (57:20) Tech America vs Woke America (58:00) Why are tech people so woke? (1:03:39) The left will flip on diversity (1:05:00) The left is shifting from wokeism to statism (1:15:17) Bitcoiners will take over the right wing party (1:21:28) Elon

Marc Andreessen of a16z sits with Erik Torenberg to go deeper into his intellectual and political journey, and his quest to find out how the world works. Upstream with Erik Torenberg is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co. Check out Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial period -- TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (04:25) How much has Marc changed vs the world changed? (07:55) How much do ideas matter? Who drives society — the elite or the masses? (10:56) People respond to interests more than ideas (13:08) Mental models for the left and the right (17:53) The road to hell is paved with good intentions (19:40) Master morality and slave morality (24:20) Unpacking Elon’s quote “Wokeness is the mind-virus” (27:00) Is classical liberalism sustainable and how it leads to wokeness (36:00) James Burnham’s worldview (43:50) How the left captured the institutions (46:20) Elon as the return to entrepreneurial capitalism (49:03) The experiments Elon is running (55:50) The billionaire mindset toward politics (58:30) We live in an oligarchy, not a democracy (01:07:00) Larry Page is the contrarian billionaire (01:08:30) Effective Altruism’s blind spots (01:11:36) Effective altruists think they can play god (01:12:16) SBF’s roll-the-dice philosophy (01:14:23) Aristocratic vs Meritocratic elite (01:22:48) Elites are insulated from the consequences of their policies (01:24:53) Why global governance is a nerd trap (01:28:16) Global governance is anti-diversity (01:31:42) Tech people are politically homeless (01:32:37) Elites can’t be removed, they can only be replaced (01:36:02) Advice for counter-elites (01:49:21) Reasons to be optimistic SOCIAL LINKS: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Marc’s Twitter: @pmarca Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod Erik’s Substack: Erik Torenberg Marc’s Substack: Marc Andreessen

Upstream is where Erik Torenberg interviews the world's most foundational thinkers to map the constellation of ideas that matter across tech, culture, and politics. You'll hear topics here first, and in the mainstream months later.Ask yourself, what’s upstream of what you believe?Interviewed for this season of Upstream: Marc Andreessen, David Sacks, Ezra Klein, Balaji Srinivasan, Katherine Boyle, Joe Lonsdale, and more luminary thinkers who are changing the world. Follow the podcast wherever you listen so you never miss an episode. Email feedback to the show to info@turpentine.co---We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.