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"Upstream" with Erik Torenberg
E1: Marc Andreessen on His Intellectual Journey the Past Ten Years
Mar 24, 2023
01:42:21
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Quick takeaways
- Building a superior elite is crucial for bringing about change.
- Understanding the functioning of modern elites is essential for counter-elites.
- Reintroducing bourgeois capitalism is necessary to counter the dominance of managerial capitalism.
- Elon Musk's actions provide a model for institutional reform.
- The concentrated elite always holds power over the dispersed masses, legitimizing their rule with a narrative of egalitarianism.
Deep dives
Superior elite and the need for a better elite
To replace the existing elite, a superior elite is necessary. This new elite would have better ideas and a superior narrative, along with higher status and prestige. It would also establish methods for perpetuation, recruitment, funding, and education. The podcast emphasizes the importance of building a superior elite as a way to bring about change.
Mark Andreessen's journey and questioning the world
Mark Andreessen embarked on a journey to understand how the world works after certain events made him question his understanding. He read about the history of the left and the right, trying to comprehend the changes that occurred in the 2010s. This exploration led him to examine the functioning of modern elites and their shared opinions. The episode offers insights into the political landscape and advice for counter-elites.
The transition to managerial capitalism
Burnham's concept of managerial capitalism highlights the shift from owners running companies to professional managers taking control. The growth and complexity of industries necessitated this change. However, the principal-agent problem arises, leading to managers dictating the political direction of companies against the wishes of dispersed owners. This trend is observed in various sectors, including venture capital and private equity. The podcast episode emphasizes the importance of reintroducing elements of bourgeois capitalism to counter the dominance of managerial capitalism.
Elon Musk as an example of reforming institutions
Elon Musk's actions and approach provide a model for institutional reform. He demonstrates that as an owner, one can resist external pressure and fight for what they believe in. Musk challenges the prevailing narrative and presents alternative perspectives. His ability to run companies efficiently and his efforts to create meaningful change are influencing other CEOs and investors, who are observing his methods closely.
The Iron Law of Oligarchy and the Elite's Rule
In every human system, there is always a minority ruling over the majority. This is known as the Iron Law of Oligarchy, and it applies to all forms of society, including democracies. The concentrated and organized elite always holds power over the dispersed and disorganized masses. The elite legitimizes its rule by telling a story that claims they are ruling on behalf of the people. This narrative of egalitarianism is used to maintain their power and recruit new members into the elite.
The Need for a Superior Elite
To replace the current elite, a better and superior elite is required. This new elite would have superior ideas, a compelling story, and possess the elements of fashion, status, and prestige. They would need to build institutions and systems that perpetuate their power and recruit new members. While challenging, history has shown that it is possible to establish a new elite with a different set of ideas and myths.
The Importance of Competence and Unification
One potential track for a counter elite could be based on competence and unification. This would involve promoting the idea of a more competent elite that prioritizes the well-being and safety of society. Competence in handling crises such as COVID-19 and addressing issues like crime could be a focus. Unifying people and bridging divides could also be emphasized, presenting an alternative to the current culture of division in society.
The Decline of an Elite: Incompetence and Disconnect
The current elite, who are supposed to be the pinnacle of society, are increasingly being exposed as ineffective and disconnected. They lack the necessary skills and competence to effectively lead and govern. This is evident in their handling of major challenges like COVID-19, where their proposed solutions have proven to be flawed and resulted in prolonged hardships. Additionally, their track record in other areas, such as education and foreign policy, is marked by failure and broken promises. The existing elite's inability to deliver on their role as leaders is increasingly driving frustration and dissatisfaction among the general population.
The Rise of the Internet and Information Flow
One reason for optimism is the power of the internet to disseminate a wide range of information. Despite censorship efforts, information is still more accessible today than ever before. The internet has exposed the incompetence and flaws of the current elite, allowing people to question their narratives and challenge their authority. The internet has also shattered the illusion of a unified elite, revealing their divisions and inconsistencies. This increased flow of information and ability to hold the elite accountable is a positive development that can drive change and create a more informed and engaged citizenry.
Marc Andreessen of a16z sits with Erik Torenberg to go deeper into his intellectual and political journey, and his quest to find out how the world works. Upstream with Erik Torenberg is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co. Check out Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial period
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) Intro
(04:25) How much has Marc changed vs the world changed?
(07:55) How much do ideas matter? Who drives society — the elite or the masses?
(10:56) People respond to interests more than ideas
(13:08) Mental models for the left and the right
(15:45) Sponsors (Secureframe | Mercury | MarketerHire)
(17:53) The road to hell is paved with good intentions
(19:40) Master morality and slave morality
(24:20) Unpacking Elon’s quote “Wokeness is the mind-virus”
(27:00) Is classical liberalism sustainable and how it leads to wokeness
(36:00) James Burnham’s worldview
(43:50) How the left captured the institutions
(46:20) Elon as the return to entrepreneurial capitalism
(49:03) The experiments Elon is running
(55:50) The billionaire mindset toward politics
(58:30) We live in an oligarchy, not a democracy
(01:07:00) Larry Page is the contrarian billionaire
(01:08:30) Effective Altruism’s blind spots
(01:11:36) Effective altruists think they can play god
(01:12:16) SBF’s roll-the-dice philosophy
(01:14:23) Aristocratic vs Meritocratic elite
(01:22:48) Elites are insulated from the consequences of their policies
(01:24:53) Why global governance is a nerd trap
(01:28:16) Global governance is anti-diversity
(01:31:42) Tech people are politically homeless
(01:32:37) Elites can’t be removed, they can only be replaced
(01:36:02) Advice for counter-elites
(01:49:21) Reasons to be optimistic
SOCIAL LINKS:
Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg
Marc’s Twitter: @pmarca
Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod
Erik’s Substack: Erik Torenberg
Marc’s Substack: Marc Andreessen
Please support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify | Secureframe | Mercury
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-Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial period
Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.
- Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/
Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year.
- Mercury: https://mercury.com/
Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks.Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC.
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