

The Numinous Podcast
Carmen Spagnola
The Numinous Podcast is a show about intuition, spirituality and the mystery of life. The host, Carmen Spagnola, is an intersectional witch and clinical hypnotherapist who has smart, soulful conversations with interesting people. The lineup is diverse, the topics are eclectic, and the people are down-to-earth (mostly).
Episodes
Mentioned books

Sep 20, 2023 • 1h 12min
TNP211 Taraneh Erfan on Processing Anger
This is a question for all the woman-identified listeners: What really ignites your rage and how much more than 100% is it patriarchy?
I’m delighted to welcome back to the show, my dear friend Taraneh Erfan to dish on what it’s like to:
A) recognize the amount of anger is simmering under the surface of our lives living under white capitalist heteropatriarchy
B) reconcile with that anger given we don’t want to be miserable all the time
C) mobilize and reclaim agency in "a world that doesn’t want us" (to quote Sophie Strand)
Taraneh Erfan is a registered clinical counsellor and a writer with a degree in expressive arts therapy. She was previously on the show when her book came out, Conscious Grieving: The Path of Awakening Through Loss. you may have seen her poetry or pick-me ups on Instagram through her account @mindonspirit and she is one of the presenters at this year’s Witches New Year, an online retreat happening on Saturday, October 28, 2023.
Sign up for my newsletter here.
Learn more about the Woman Life Freedom revolution in Iran here, here, here, and here.

Sep 15, 2023 • 25min
TNP210 RCCX Theory of Complex Illness
This episode is for all the folks who are, for whatever reason, familiar with chronic illness, rare disease and/or autoimmune disorder. The Network was inspired by my work with clients living with chronic illness and rare diseases such as Sjogren’s disease, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, POTS, PCOS, and MCAS, specifically.
RCCX Theory is a theory proposed by Dr. Sharon Meglathery that may explain overlapping syndromes associated with chronic illness. This mutation creates a stress vulnerability.
In other words, a brain wired for danger and a body primed for stress.
Co-inherited gene mutations of the RCCX module lead to overlapping “rare” genetic diseases and syndromes in families and individuals. This have catastrophic consequences in settings of severe acute, chronic, or prolonged stress, resulting in medical and/or psychiatric illness.
Listeners who may find this episode particularly validating may have experience or be familiar with:
• Post-Covid / Long Covid syndrome
• Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS)
• Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS)
• Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome
• Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME)
• Sjogren's Syndrome
• Lyme
• Vasovagal Syncope
• Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO)
• Inflammatory Bowel Syndrome (IBS) including Crohn's and colitis
• Fibromyaligia
• Rheumatoid Arthritis
• Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome (CIRS)
• Multiple Chemical/Mold/Electrical Sensitivities
• Chronic Pain
• other dysfunction involving the nervous system including gut biome
Deep gratitude to Dr.Meglathery for her research on the RCCX module. We hope her work is carried forward by fellow scientists and advocates.
Notes
https://www.rccxandillness.com
Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/rccxandchronicillness
https://medium.com/@elizabethnickson/reading-this-might-save-your-life-rccx-theory-the-vagus-nerve-and-the-end-to-43c9431a8df7
https://www.gro-gifted.org/rccx-theory-and-giftedness-a-promising-new-line-of-research/
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2018/08/09/rccx-chronic-fatigue-fibromyalgia-eds-pots/
https://me-pedia.org/wiki/RCCX_Genetic_Module_Theory
TNP151 Oliver Choquette on the Intersection of Gender Diversity and Neurodivergence
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Sep 13, 2023 • 1h
TNP209 {Special Class Recording} Connecting with Plants
What are the steps to spiritual communication with plants?
Do we need to know a lot about horticulture?
How do I know if I'm just making it all up?
In this session, I'm sharing a lightly edited recording of a recent Enrichment session I led within The Numinous Network on connecting with and communicating with plants. I'm offering this sneak peek because it's free Week in the Network from Sept 17-23 - listen in to find out more!
Notes
Plant Spirit Healing: A Guide to Working with Plant Consciousness, Pam Montgomery
Communicating with Plants: Heart-Based Practices for Connecting with Plant Spirits, Jen Frey
Braiding Sweetgrass, Robin Wall Kimmerer
The Unlikely Peace at Cuchumaquic: The Parallel Lives of People as Plants: Keeping the Seeds Alive, Martin Prechtel
Edible and Medicinal Flora of the West Coast: The Pacific Northwest and British Columbia, Collin Varner
Luschiim’s Plants: Traditional Indigenous Foods, Materials and Medicines, Dr Luschiim Arvid Charlie, Nancy Turner
Plants Have So Much to Give Us, All We Have to Do Is Ask: Anishinaabe Botanical Teachings, Mary Siisip Geniusz
TNP202 Maeg Keane on Connecting with Jupiter
Review The Spirited Kitchen: Recipes and Rituals for the Wheel of the Year
Homework for this Lesson
Reciprocity
Ask your plant friend what they’d like. Maybe they want to be tended a certain way, maybe they want you to draw them. Stay with the question – at first they might say something like, I want you to take care of yourself, I want you to relax. That’s all good to know, but stay with this question of what you can do for them or offer to them until you get an answer that is truly something they want just for them. When you have the gift, present it to them. Spend time in this space, speaking aloud your gratitude. What do you notice in the days after?
Plant Limpia
Plant bathing: It can be as simple as placing the plant in water, then sprinkling water on you. After you've cleansed yourself, keep a portion of the water and add to it an equal portion of vodka. Place in a spray bottle to cleanse yourself whenever you need to release energetic build-up (spiritual hygiene) or when you are preparing yourself for ritual (purification). Could also infuse a plant in water that is at least 100F, strain, then keep in the fridge until you want to use it. Add it to your bathwater at particularly meaningful times or whenever you’re in need. (Make sure it’s not made from a plant that can cause contact dermatitis).
Plant Dieting
This is a way to really meld with the energies of a plant over an extended period of time. It will take several days or perhaps even weeks just to prepare all of the items you can with a single plant. Then, once all of the your preparations are ready, you would have a retreat day with that plant, ingesting it in all the ways. You will need to source a good beginner's herbalism book to learn how to make tinctures and oxymels, etc. Some recommendations would be:
Rosemary Gladstar's Medicinal Herbs: A Beginner's Guide: 33 Healing Herbs to Know, Grow, and Use
Ava Green and Kate Bensinger's The Comprehensive Guide to Herbalism for Beginners: (2 Books in 1) Grow Medicinal Herbs to Fill Your Herbalist Apothecary with Natural Herbal Remedies and Plant Medicine
To undertake the ritual of plant dieting, first as your plant ally for a good date to enter into this day-long ritual. When the time comes, begin by eating some of the plant, then make a tea from leaves and drink. Then enjoy some tea made from the roots. After that, perhaps later that day, ingest a tincture. After that you might put balm or oil on your body, followed by some essence on your tongue, perhaps some medicine made of honey infused with the plant, then have an oxymel drink or other fermented version of the plant. Finally, do a trance journey to connect with the plant spirit in the Otherworld. Complete your ritual by thanking your plant ally and following any instructions they gave you.
Make a Plant Essence
Flower essences carry the energetic imprint of a plant and are meant to be ingested. They address emotional symptoms, not physical.
Below are some basic steps to making a Mother Essence, Stock Essence, and Dosage Essence - some simple basic herbalism so you can work with a particular plant all month and notice how that not only deepens your understanding but also expands your intuitive awareness of this plant and others.
Begin by asking your plant ally when is the best time to make an essence with them.
Mother Essence: Sterilize a two ounce bottle in boiling water. Fill a small clean glass bowl with about a cup of non-chlorinated water and place it on the ground beside the plant. Collect a few pieces of the plant and place them in the bowl. In order to preserve their pure essence, do not allow the plant parts to touch the ground. Ask the plant for guidance - is there any additional information they'd like to provide about how to make this essence with them? When the plant informs you the essence is ready, fill your two ounce bottle 40%-50% full with good quality brandy* (consisting of 40% alcohol by volume - ABV). Top it up with the essence water, using a fine mesh strainer to ensure no plant material enters the Mother Essence bottle. Your remaining essence water can be poured back into the ground at the foot of your plant, (and you can also take a sip of it, if you feel it's safe and the plant is edible). Label your bottle as Mother Essence and the name of the plant.
Stock Essence: Fill a half-ounce bottle with 60% plain non-chlorinated water and 40% brandy, then add 3 drops of the Mother Essence. Label this bottle as Stock Essence plus the name of the plant. you can use the Stock Essence as a daily point of connection with this plant, trying a single drop on the tongue the morning of one day, noon on another, and night on the next. Journal anything you notice over the weeks, particularly your dreams and coincidences relevant to this plant and its teachings. This stock level of dilution will last at least a year, (some say up to 10 years if stored in a cool, dark place and in a dark glass bottle).
Dosage Essence: Fill a clean, sterilized half-ounce bottle with 70% non-chlorinated water and 30% good quality brandy. To this, add 3 drops of the Stock Essence. Standard dosage is three drops on the tongue three times a day for a month. Notice any changes, synchronicities, messages and dreams. The dosage level of dilution will last for about 2 months. After that, gift the liquid back to the plants and soil.
*If you would prefer not to use alcohol in your essences, you can use vinegar.

Sep 9, 2023 • 46min
TNP208 {Special Class Recording} Contact Nutrition + Attachment
This episode is one of a series of recordings of live classes that I’m publishing on the podcast so you can have a preview of how I teach ahead of Free Week, which is happening in The Numinous Network from September 17-23, 2023. Get on my newsletter to receive the link when it's sent on September 17.
What is Contact Nutrition and why is it so critical to develop secure attachment in a relationship?
Are there socio-cultural components to secure attachment that might be missing from the popular literature?
Are you wishing you could have the Cole's Notes on attachment theory and just skip right to the practical doing part?
Let's get into it!
Referenced in this episode:
Diane Poole Heller
Stan Tatkin
Amir Levine
Resmaa Menakem
Check out the class schedule for our live events, plus a listing of on-demand video courses available with your Numinous Network membership.

Sep 4, 2023 • 59min
TNP207 {Special Class Recording} Fascism 101 for Collapse Times
Let’s talk about fascism today, friends. Why is it important? Because in collapse, authoritarianism always increases. Of course we don't like strong man dictators, military coups, or religious fundamentalism – we hate all the different forms authoritarianism takes. But the especially chilling thing about fascism is that doesn't just happen in the political sphere; it happens at the dinner table.
Average people live under authoritarianism, often for generations, without it altering their daily reality much at all. The power struggles of dictators and regime changes might hardly make a difference. But fascism uses the populace and populist movements as part of its social control.
Fascism goes deeper and far beyond fear and military might to secure its stranglehold.
This episode is an excerpt from my online course, Collapse 101, which is accessed as part of my monthly membership subscription program, The Numinous Network. We have a Collapse 101 class lecture, followed by an AMA a week later, almost every month.
In this session, I'm sharing about the hallmarks of fascism so we can be alert to some of the sneaky ways it wends itself into our lives.
Referenced in this episode:
TNP161 Collapse in a Nutshell
TNP193 How Much Is Enough In Collapse? with Carmen & Ruben
The Rewilding Podcast with Peter Michael Bower, ep. 30: Collapse Care with Carmen Spagnola
End Times/New Times: Numinous Podcast Episode Round-Up for Collapse
Recommended Reading:
Ecofascism: Lessons from the German Experience, by Janet Biehl and Peter Staudenmaier, published under the title, "Fascist Ecology: The "Green Wing" of the Nazi Party and its Historical Antecedents" (1996)
On the Rise of the Right-Wing Mass Movements, (2014)
The Undying Appeal of White Nationalism: Neofascism is the cultural, Artistic, and Ecological Movements (2014)
The Return of Fascism in Contemporary Capitalism (2014)
Economic Collapse and the Rise of Fascism, 1920-1933, A People's History of Modern Europe (2016)
The Pagan and Occult Fascist Connection and How To Fix It, by Amy Hale (2019)
Note the difference in tone regarding America in just one year in the following three articles:
Fascism Is Spreading — And It’s a Sign of Civilizational Collapse, Umair Haque (2022)
How Many Collapsing Societies Does It Take to Teach the Same Lesson?, Umair Haque (2023)
America’s Battle To Save Its Democracy From Trumpism, Umair Haque (2023)
Alternatively...
If you want to end on a more upbeat note, here's a classic:
Why Socialism? by Albert Einstein
or
Punching Nazis: Spiritual or No? by me, Carmen Spagnola

Sep 2, 2023 • 1h 8min
TNP206 Alexa Linton on Interspecies Relating and Healing with Horses
In this episode we grapple with the questions,
Can you ever really be in a consensual relationship with a being who depends on you for food?
How do white supremacy culture and patriarchy show up in horsemanship?
What does non-coercive horsemanship look and feel like?
If you’ve read my book, The Spirited Kitchen, or you’ve been around my work for a while, you know that I come from a long line of horse people - a lineage that wends its way from southern Alberta and rodeo culture to the Scottish Highlands in the late 1800s where my wayback people bred, trained, and worked Highland ponies to labour in the coal mines and to build railroads. It’s been a long and complicated relationship between my family and horses. I am the first generation in as far back as we can remember to not have horses in my life on an everyday basis. It’s a profound source of grief for me.
What has also been a source of grief is that for many of the problems I've supported my child through, (if you don’t know, I have a 19 year old with autism, ADHD, and mental and physical health challenges), the thing that seems to work best is time outside the city with horses.
And this is where my next guest comes in…
Alexa Linton is an osteopathic practitioner with 15 years of manual therapy and energy work under her belt. She also works with animals using kinesiology, cranial sacral therapy, and intuitive communication. She also helps humans navigate pet death. As a horse steward, trainer and healer, Alexa has seen and experienced a lot of changes in the industry over the years but there is much further to go in uncoupling from systems of dominance. Her course, The Whole Horse Apprenticeship, and her show, The Whole Horse Podcast, are places of refuge for horsey people who no longer feel comfortable with coercive horsemanship.
Check out Alexa's book:
Death Sucks: A Straight-Up Guide to Navigating Your Pet's Final Transition
Follow her on Instagram
Equine Cranial Therapy Certification
Referenced in this episode:
The Whole Horse Apprenticeship with Alexa and 25 guest instructors, including myself! (6 month program for horse lovers starting September 15th)
The Whole Horse Podcast
Taming Wild documentary created by Elsa Sinclair
Freedom-based Training with Elsa Sinclair
Emotional Horsemanship with Lockie Phillips
Relationship Horsemanship with Josh Nichol
Nahshon Cook Horsemanship
Balance through Movement Method (Pillar one mini course)
Horsemanship on Vancouver Island - Shannon Beahen (Humminghorse)

Aug 31, 2023 • 1h 11min
TNP205 Sophie Strand on Mary Magdalene + Miracles
Sophie Strand is a poet and writer with a focus on the intersection of spirituality, storytelling, and
ecology. If you love Mary Magdalene and fondly remember Anita Diamant's The Red Tent, you are in for a real treat! Sophie's new book, The Madonna Secret, is a passionate retelling of the story of Mary Magdalene and Jesus, rewilding the Gospels with the forgotten voices of defiant and oppressed women, the nature-based storytelling of oral communities, and the embodied eroticism of a lovable rabbi with appetites and desires, doubts and shame, and a playful sense of humor. Plus, his awesome mom – aka The Virgin Mary – is a raucous and wonderful surprise, giving big time Baubo of Greek myth vibes, (who in my mind could be played wonderfully by Shohreh Aghdashloo of The Expanse fame).
In this conversation, we talk about what it's like to write about miracles while living with an incurable disease, (Sophie lives with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, a connective tissue disorder - something that many members of the Numinous Network are all too familiar). We also discuss animism, magic, patriarchy, and the realness she brings to the landscape and the characters of her novel.
Sophie's poems and essays have appeared in numerous projects and publications, including Spirituality & Health, Atmos, Braided Way and Art PAPERS. The author of The Flowering Wand, she lives in the Hudson Valley
of New York.
Purchase The Madonna Secret anywhere
(and please do leave a review!)
Follow Sophie:
SophieStrand.com
Her Substack
Instagram
Facebook
References in this episode:
older Dev Patel
Louis Garrel
Golshifteh Farhani (Oh now that I see who she is, I LOVED her in that dystopian show, Invasion)
young Javier Bardem
article about Bruce Chilton
Bruce Chilton wikipedia
Honi the Circle Drawer
Hanina ben Dosa
Contemporaries of Jesus who were miracle workers
Mary Renault
Mary Stewart
Learn more about the Numinous Network
Sign up for my newsletter and join us for Free Week, Sept 17-23, 2023
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Jul 8, 2023 • 53min
TNP204 AstroMagic Miniseries ET Shipley on the Power of Saturn
Et Shipley is a consulting professional astrologer, creative writer, and ritual strategist. She weaves astrology with other tools to talk about collapse, social justice, relationality, death and culture. Last year, I asked Erin to be a Guest Guide in The Numinous Network offering astrology workshops to help folks manage key moments. That has morphed into a seasonal offering we call the AstroJam - people gather with Erin to jam about the cosmic weather and all things magical and ritual to do with that. When I had the idea for an AstroMagic Miniseries, I immediately thought to ask Erin who she would recommend as guests - in many ways, you can thank Erin for working her magic there to make some very special connections and episodes happen for us!
Erin’s writing about astrology is always poetic and profound, gentle but unflinching, and always very useful. She has just the right vibe to help us really understand what it is that Saturn is trying to teach and to not be afraid of those lessons. Even if you’re still not quite ready to engage directly with Saturn after this episode, I know you’ll find it to be good preparation for the time when, eventually, Saturn calls you and you don’t have a choice anymore.
Referenced in this episode:
Erin's approach to astrology
Erin's Instagram: @etshipley
Book a session with Erin or get on her newsletter
Idola Stellárum talismanic adornment for devotion
Kristin Mathis' new translation of the Orphic Hymn to Kronos (Saturn)
Audio of the Orphic Hymn to Saturn
Maeg Keane's podcast interview on Blackberry on the Herbs with Rosalee Podcast
Rate this show on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen - thanks in advance!

Jul 7, 2023 • 1h 10min
TNP203 AstroMagic Miniseries Kristin Mathis, Venus, and the Orphic Hymns
My guest today is Kristin Mathis - truly a multi-talented individual - and we are all so fortunate that she’s dedicated herself to the translation of the Orphic Hymns which overlight this conversation about Venus, Aphrodite, and AstroMagic! She’s a writer and poet, a teacher and advocate. (You really must read her fascinating bio). But what she's really doing is quietly revolutionizing the English-speaking world's relationship to the Orphic Hymns with her unique perspective as both an academic and a magical practitioner-animist.
In this episode, Kristin helps us understand Venus and Aphrodite as The All, helping us to link love and grief, love and rage, love and justice.
Referenced in this episode:
Mysteria Mundi, Kristin's Substack where you'll find:
Becoming Children of Earth and Starry Sky
Revealing the Mysteries, or, My New Translation of the Orphic Hymn to the Moon (Selene)
A New Translation of The Orphic Hymn To Kronos/Saturn
Audio Recording of the Orphic Hymn to Kronos/Saturn
Kristin's Translation of Sappho's Hymn to Aphrodite
Her Podia site with her courses
Star: An Orphic Initiation for Earth-Borne Souls with Drew Levanti
Check out The Numinous Network for more on Planetary Magic & Propitiation

Jul 6, 2023 • 55min
TNP202 Maeg Keane on Connecting with Jupiter
Meag Keane is here to expand our understanding of Jupiter in this, part 5 of my 7 part miniseries on Planetary Magic and Propitiation.
Maeg is an astrologer and herbalist, connecting soil and sky. Many of her teachers are people I’ve also followed and admired, and she wrote a really excellent blog post on Jupiter and Being Too Much. (It's so good! Make sure you check out the footnotes!)
To go deeper with your AstroMagic, consider getting a plant and planet reading from Maeg - it’s a two session package with email support for a month where she guides you on a deep dive with one of the 7 traditional planets and a plant based on your specific chart and what comes out of your first session with her. So good!
Sign up for Maeg's newsletter so you're in the know about all upcoming offerings and current writing.
Website: third-sister.com
Twitter | @maegkeane
Instagram | @maeg.thirdsister
Review The Spirited Kitchen on Goodreads, Amazon or Indigo
Check out The Numinous Network - all classes on Planetary Magic & Propitiation are found in the archives of The Numinous School in the course area of the Network.