
The Numinous Podcast
The Numinous Podcast is a show about intuition, spirituality and the mystery of life. The host, Carmen Spagnola, is an intersectional witch and clinical hypnotherapist who has smart, soulful conversations with interesting people. The lineup is diverse, the topics are eclectic, and the people are down-to-earth (mostly).
Latest episodes

Aug 18, 2018 • 1h 40min
TNP118 Patti Elledge on the Neurobiology of Attachment, Grieving Together, and Mobilizing Outrage
Patti Elledge is a Trauma Healing Specialist and Somatic Experiencing Practitioner with a private practice in Asheville, NC. She's my supervisor and mentor and I'm here to tell the world: I love her and I think everyone should have more Patti in their life. I want that for you. You deserve some Patti.
In this conversation, Patti explains what Attachment is, what different Attachment styles look like in babies and how that translates in adulthood, the role of Evolutionary Biology in our Attachment systems, and how we can heal attachment wounds in a world of persistent precarity, climate change, and social turmoil.
I particularly enjoyed hearing Patti's thoughts on grief, rage, and how Attachment shows up in our spiritual lives.
Here are the resources Patti noted in this interview:
Mary Main
Mary Ainsworth
John Bowlby
Joanna Macy
Peter Levine and Somatic Experiencing
Stephen Porges and the Polyvagal System (YouTube)
Allan Schore and the Good Enough Mother
Portrait Of A Marriage: Yes, It's Mine (the article mentioned that I wrote)
Learning To See In The Dark Amid Catastrophe: An Interview With Deep Ecologist Joanna Macy
Patti specializes in somatic healing techniques via organic, instinctual ways of the body and psyche, allowing for more connection with self and other and the emergence of creativity and spirituality. Patti credits her training by Peter Levine, Diane Poole Heller and Raja Selvam. She has assisted more than 40 trainings worldwide and now teaches Diane Poole Heller's pioneering work DARe, (Dynamic Attachment Re-Patterning Experience).
Patti has specialized in therapeutic application of neuroscience for 40 years and has a broad background in early development (interpersonal, social/emotional, language and cognition), sensory processing disorders, self- and co-regulatory processes and the neurobiology of stress and trauma.
While Patti's work is grounded in current day research on the neurobiology and physiology of the human stress mechanism, it is also infused with embodied intuition and a compassionate heart.
You can reach Patti at:
www.pattiatlarge.blogspot.com
https://dianepooleheller.com/teachersproviders/
https://sepractitioner.membergrove.com/member-details.php?id=1388

Aug 16, 2018 • 1h 6min
TNP117 Monique Gray Smith on the What Why How of Territorial Acknowledgements
My guest today is author, speaker and consultant, Monique Gary Smith. We're talking about Territorial Acknowledgements, a small act of Reconciliation that is spreading beyond the borders of our province and country.
When I committed a few years ago to incorporating acts of Reconciliation into my personal and professional life, I began inviting elders (of all ages) to open all of my retreats and workshops with a Territorial Acknowledgement. When I was invited to give a speech, or lead a networking event, or any kind of circle, I would also verbally acknowledged the traditional occupants of the territory, wherever I went. And if I travelled outside of my region to go on Quest or a spiritual retreat, I would reach out to the local band or tribal office to find out more about the land and the ancestors from that place.
But I only learned how to do this because my friend, Monique, guided and re-directed me again and again.
In this episode, Monique shares some ideas for how any person wanting to incorporate this small act of Reconciliation into their life or work might begin in a good way.
MoniqueGraySmith.com
Truth And Reconciliation Commission Of Canada: 94 Calls To Action

Aug 16, 2018 • 1h 41min
TNP116 Matthew Remski on Attachment High Demand Communities and Yogas Culture Of Abuse 1
In this episode, I'm thrilled to talk with Matthew Remski about how one finds oneself in a cult, how to get out, and what high demand groups have to do with social justice, climate change and collapse.
Matthew is a writer and cultural critic who published an explosive article in The Walrus called, Yoga's Culture Of Sexual Abuse: Nine Women Tell Their Stories.
Since then, I've followed Matthew and especially appreciated his real-time critique of the unravelling of the Shambala meditation community.
Resources cited in this episode include:
Alexandra Mann, Terror, Love and Brainwashing: Attachment In cults And Totalitarian Systems
Dr.Cathleen Mann
Steven Hassan
Dr.Michael Langone
This Is Not your Practice Life

Aug 11, 2018 • 47min
TNP115 Solara Goldwynn on Edible Landscapes Sustainability Climate Dread
My guest today is gardener, landscape designer, teacher of permaculture, and business owner, Solara Goldwynn of Hatchet & Seed.
Known for bringing lush, edible landscapes to forgotten private corners and under-used public spaces, Solara is not only a champion of sustainable values but I consider her a strong role model. But I also know that folks who live with such conviction also shoulder more emotional burden than most; I wanted to know how she copes with her own eco-grief and climate anxiety.
We talk about her work, what she thinks the future of the planet will look like when her daughter grows up, reconciling with having children in an age of overpopulation, and how she seeks joy in spite of these dire times.
For eco-inspiration, follow Solara and Hatchet & Seed on Instagram.

Aug 11, 2018 • 48min
TNP114 Jessie Hemphill on Indigenizing Urban Design Collapse Awareness
I'm delighted to welcome Jessie Hemphill back to the show to talk about Indigenizing Urban Design and also what we can learn about collapse and crisis preparedness from an Indigenous perspective.
I'm so excited that Jessie is attending our retreat, Ritual + Practice For Urban Homestead this fall because we are both pretty serious peppers and like to talk shop about our emergency preparedness plans and kits.
To learn more about Jessie's work in Comprehensive Community Planning, and to read her Master's Thesis summary, visit: alderhill.ca
To learn more about our Hollyhock retreat, visit our event page.

Apr 28, 2018 • 44min
TNP112 Tending The Threshold with Holly Truhlar
Tending The Threshold is an event happening in Ashland, Oregon, on May 26 and 27th, 2018. Tickets can information can be found at tendingthethreshold.com
It is a gathering of Change-makers, Bridge builders and Edge Dwellers, with no agenda other than to practice being together, and to learn how to take care of each other and the world, in these challenging times.
The container at this un-conference will be held by a group of ten co-facilitators from three countries and many walks of life. The group includes:
Poet and spoken word artist, Tannur Ali
Conflict Engagement and Resolution practitioner, Aftab Erfan
Equity and Inclusion Consultant, Desiree Adaway
Clinical Psychologist and Author, Bayo Akomolafe
Social Entrepreneur, Donnie Maclurcan
Artist and Death Doula, Rachael Rice
Educator, facilitator and Indigenous rights activist, Aaron Ortega
Videographer and artist, Bec Stupak
Therapist, ritualist and conference founder, Holly Truhlar
And myself, Carmen Spagnola.
***
Holly Truhlar, MA, JD, is a grief practitioner, ritualist, and community builder. She has a Masters degree in Transpersonal Counseling Psychology from Naropa University and a law degree from the University of Denver. Combining her experience in justice work and relational psychology, she created an intellectual, emotional, sociological, and spiritual approach to activism called Radical Attunement Work (RAW). Her writing and workshops dance with the topics of planetary grief, cultural trauma, oppression and inequality, restructuring power, environmental justice, conscious collapse, and subversion of the dominant system. She's deeply committed to transforming our culture of exploitation into communities of care.
http://hollytruhlar.com

Apr 28, 2018 • 24min
TNP111 Tending The Threshold with Bayo Akomolafe
Tending The Threshold is an event happening in Ashland, Oregon, on May 26 and 27th, 2018. Tickets can information can be found at tendingthethreshold.com
It is a gathering of Change-makers, Bridge builders and Edge Dwellers, with no agenda other than to practice being together, and to learn how to take care of each other and the world, in these challenging times.
The container at this un-conference will be held by a group of ten co-facilitators from three countries and many walks of life. The group includes:
Poet and spoken word artist, Tannur Ali
Conflict Engagement and Resolution practitioner, Aftab Erfan
Equity and Inclusion Consultant, Desiree Adaway
Clinical Psychologist and Author, Bayo Akomolafe
Social Entrepreneur, Donnie Maclurcan
Artist and Death Doula, Rachael Rice
Educator, facilitator and Indigenous rights activist, Aaron Ortega
Videographer and artist, Bec Stupak
Therapist, ritualist and conference founder, Holly Truhlar
And myself, Carmen Spagnola.
***
Bayo Akomolafe (Ph.D.) is a renegade academic, lecturer, speaker, and proud diaper-changer. Bayo curates an earth-wide organization, The Emergence Network, for the re-calibration of our ability to respond to the civilizational crisis--a project framed within a feminist ethos and inspired by indigenous cosmologies. He considers this a shared art--exploring the edges of the intelligible, dancing with posthumanist ideas, and dabbling in the mysteries of quantum mechanics. In short, Bayo has given up his longing for the "end-time" and is learning to live in the "mean time." In the middle, where we must live with confusion and make do with partial answers. He speaks and teaches about his experiences around the world, and then returns to his adopted home in Chennai, India - "where the occasional whiff of cow dung dancing in the air is another invitation to explore the vitality of a world that is never still and always surprising." Bayo has authored two books, ‘We Will Tell Our Own Story!’ and ‘These Wilds Beyond our Fences: Letters to My Daughter on Humanity’s Search for Home.’
http://bayoakomolafe.net

Apr 28, 2018 • 21min
TNP110 Tending The Threshold With Desiree Adaway
Tending The Threshold is an event happening in Ashland, Oregon, on May 26 and 27th, 2018. Tickets can information can be found at tendingthethreshold.com
It is a gathering of Change-makers, Bridge builders and Edge Dwellers, with no agenda other than to practice being together, and to learn how to take care of each other and the world, in these challenging times.
The container at this un-conference will be held by a group of ten co-facilitators from three countries and many walks of life. The group includes:
Poet and spoken word artist, Tannur Ali
Conflict Engagement and Resolution practitioner, Aftab Erfan
Equity and Inclusion Consultant, Desiree Adaway
Clinical Psychologist and Author, Bayo Akomolafe
Social Entrepreneur, Donnie Maclurcan
Artist and Death Doula, Rachael Rice
Educator, facilitator and Indigenous rights activist, Aaron Ortega
Videographer and artist, Bec Stupak
Therapist, ritualist and conference founder, Holly Truhlar
And myself, Carmen Spagnola.
***
Desiree Adaway is a Principal of The Adaway Group, a minority and woman owned consulting firm that brings together multi-racial teams to work on projects related to racial equity and social justice. With over 20 years experience creating, leading and managing international, multicultural teams through major organizational changes in over 40 countries, she is uniquely qualified to partner with talented leaders to successfully navigate through integrations, reorganizations, and all stages of organizational evolution. She works from an intersectional perspective, which believes that organizations thrive when they build cultures that are inclusive of wide ranging ethnic, racial, gender, sexual, religious, and national identities and abilities.
http://desireeadaway.com

Apr 27, 2018 • 29min
TNP109 Tending The Threshold with Rachael Rice and Bec Stupak
Tending The Threshold is an event happening in Ashland, Oregon, on May 26 and 27th, 2018. Tickets can information can be found at tendingthethreshold.com
It is a gathering of Change-makers, Bridge builders and Edge Dwellers, with no agenda other than to practice being together, and to learn how to take care of each other and the world, in these challenging times.
The container at this un-conference will be held by a group of ten co-facilitators from three countries and many walks of life. The group includes:
Poet and spoken word artist, Tannur Ali
Conflict Engagement and Resolution practitioner, Aftab Erfan
Equity and Inclusion Consultant, Desiree Adaway
Clinical Psychologist and Author, Bayo Akomolafe
Social Entrepreneur, Donnie Maclurcan
Artist and Death Doula, Rachael Rice
Educator, facilitator and Indigenous rights activist, Aaron Ortega
Videographer and artist, Bec Stupak
Therapist, ritualist and conference founder, Holly Truhlar
And myself, Carmen Spagnola.
***
Rachael Rice is a full-time artist, musician, writer, educator and death doula. Her work lies at the crossroads of grief, radical togetherness, creative expression, death, learning, and magic. Her background is in critical pedagogy and constructivist theory where she specialized in differentiated instruction and educating for democracy with concentrations in Art and English. She spent over 20 years in the classroom as a certified, licensed public school art teacher, as well as in after-school and out-of-school community-based arts programs that serve primarily at-risk youth, folks with disabilities and low-income communities. She also worked in the social enterprise non-profit startup world implementing systems to support communities our current systems have failed.
http://rachaelrice.com
Bec Stupak is an artist, musician and videographer who's work is based on visioning, magic, ritual and ecstatic play. Her focus has been on depicting liminal spaces and transporting the viewer into the non-ordinary through the experience of her work. She was a Deitch Projects artist, exhibited at the Whitney Biennial and has been a primary member of the Joshua Light Show. Most recently she has been exploring expressions of gratitude and the experience of ceremony through a series of drawings that are transformed into wearable prayers.
http://www.becstupak.com

Apr 27, 2018 • 22min
TNP108 Tending The Threshold with Donnie Maclurcan
Tending The Threshold is an event happening in Ashland, Oregon, on May 26 and 27th, 2018. Tickets can information can be found at tendingthethreshold.com
It is a gathering of Change-makers, Bridge builders and Edge Dwellers, with no agenda other than to practice being together, and to learn how to take care of each other and the world, in these challenging times.
The container at this un-conference will be held by a group of ten co-facilitators from three countries and many walks of life. The group includes:
Poet and spoken word artist, Tannur Ali
Conflict Engagement and Resolution practitioner, Aftab Erfan
Equity and Inclusion Consultant, Desiree Adaway
Clinical Psychologist and Author, Bayo Akomolafe
Social Entrepreneur, Donnie Maclurcan
Artist and Death Doula, Rachael Rice
Educator, facilitator and Indigenous rights activist, Aaron Ortega
Videographer and artist, Bec Stupak
Therapist, ritualist and conference founder, Holly Truhlar
And myself, Carmen Spagnola.
***
Donnie Maclurcan, PhD, is an author and social entrepreneur. He is passionate about all things not-for-profit. Originally from Australia, he moved to the U.S. in 2013, from where he runs the Post Growth Institute, exploring how we accelerate the shift to a thriving, prosperous society within ecological limits. As a consultant, Donnie has helped more than 400 not-for-profit projects start, scale and sustain their work, while his own initiatives include developing: Free Money Day, the Post Growth Alliance, the (En)Rich List, the Offers and Needs Market process, Cascades Hub, and Project Australia. Affiliate Professor of Social Science at Southern Oregon University, Donnie holds a Ph.D. in social science, with his research having explored nanotechnology’s implications for global inequality. He is currently completing his third book: How on Earth: Our future is not for profit.
https://www.postgrowth.org
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