The Rollup

In this engaging conversation, Muneeb Ali, co-founder of Stacks, discusses the transformative journey of Bitcoin from speculative asset to institutional heavyweight. He highlights the rapid advancements in Layer 2 solutions like BitVM, turning ambitious theories into tangible technologies. Muneeb also delves into Bitcoin's superior risk profile, making it increasingly attractive to traditional investors. The potential for nation-states to adopt Bitcoin and create strategic reserves adds an intriguing layer to this dynamic financial landscape.

Stani Kulechov, the founder of Aave, and Omer Goldberg, founder of Chaos Labs, dive into the revolutionary changes in DeFi. They unveil Aave V4's innovative hub-and-spoke system for specialized lending markets and smarter interest rates tied to collateral risk. With potential regulatory shifts under a crypto-friendly Trump, they discuss the future of institutional adoption. Chaos Labs enhances risk management through advanced simulations and auto-adjusting parameters, paving the way for safer transactions. Plus, AI integration promises smarter risk evaluations—an exciting era for finance!

Mark Tyneway, a leader in blockchain interoperability and member of the Ethereum Interop Forum, discusses the groundbreaking Superchain concept. He reveals how Optimism is simplifying blockchain interactions, aiming for seamless connectivity without complicated bridges. Mark breaks down the role of the OP token in governance and funding projects, while sharing insights on upcoming Ethereum enhancements like Pectra and PureDIS. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of decentralized infrastructure!

Tarun Chitra, CEO of Gauntlet, and Benji Leibowitz, founder of Pump.Science, dive deep into the heated debate on decentralized science. They discuss whether many DeSci projects are essentially just ICOs in disguise. Chitra criticizes the lack of accountability in these initiatives, while Leibowitz presents live demos showcasing genuine scientific research. Their conversation highlights the tension between blockchain’s promise of innovation and the realities of scientific funding, accountability, and peer review, ultimately questioning if DeSci can genuinely transform scientific research.

Join Jason Zhao, the Founder of Story Protocol, a groundbreaking blockchain project at the intersection of IP and AI. He discusses how AI is transforming intellectual property into tradable, yield-generating assets. Zhao highlights the unique role of blockchain in enhancing creator rights and unifying global IP regulations. He also dives into the future of tokenized content and the rise of agent-based businesses, showcasing the vast potential of combining AI with decentralized technologies to revolutionize the creative marketplace.

For today's special episode, we were joined by Haseeb of Dragonfly to discuss his 2025 predictions in-depth. The intersection of artificial intelligence and DeFi is no longer a distant future—it's happening now. As AI tools become more sophisticated, they're fundamentally changing how developers approach smart contracts, how projects structure token launches, and how we think about the future of blockchain execution environments. While AI-powered development tools are making smart contract creation more accessible than ever—potentially cementing EVM's market dominance—emerging alternatives like Move and SVM are gaining traction. This raises compelling questions: Will AI-assisted development favor established platforms, or will it level the playing field for newer protocols? We also discussed how token distribution models are evolving in parallel with these technological shifts. We're witnessing a transition from simple points-based airdrops to sophisticated, KPI-driven incentives that leverage onchain data for more transparent and equitable distribution. This evolution reflects a broader trend toward data-driven tokenomics and more nuanced approaches to further onchain price discovery. But these advancements come with their own set of challenges. As AI tools become more integral to DeFi development, we're seeing signs of a growing technological divide between early adopters and those slower to adapt. There's also the question of AI fatigue—a phenomenon familiar from previous tech cycles. How will these dynamics influence the DeFi ecosystem's development? In this piece, we'll explore these intersecting trends and their implications for builders, users, and the broader DeFi landscape. From the changing nature of smart contract development to the future of token distribution, we'll examine how AI is reshaping the foundations of decentralized finance—and what it means for what comes next. Join The Rollup Edge: https://members.therollup.co Website: https://therollup.co/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd.. Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco Follow Rob on X: https://www.x.com/robbie_rollup Follow Andy on X: https://www.x.com/ayyyeandy Join our TG group: https://t.me/+8ARkR_YZixE5YjBh The Rollup Disclosures: https://therollup.co/the-rollup-discl 𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: 𝘐𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘳𝘺𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘦𝘍𝘪 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘩𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬, 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳, 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦. 𝘈𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭, 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘧𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱, 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘳. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮, 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘦 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴.

Jeff "Jihoz" Zirlin, co-founder of Axie Infinity and Ronin, dives into his journey of creating a massive user base in the Web3 gaming world. He shares how Ronin emerged from the challenges of scaling on Ethereum, resulting in a platform that now supports millions of users. Jihoz discusses the transformative impact on communities in the Philippines, Vietnam, and Brazil, turning gaming into an economic engine. His strategies for fostering community engagement and genuine utility shine a light on how players' emotional connections redefine success in gaming.

Wei Dai, a researcher at 1kx and PhD cryptographer, dives into the transformative shift in crypto investing from infrastructure to applications. He likens rollup clusters to high-speed railways, revolutionizing transaction speed and value transfer. Dai discusses three innovations crucial for these clusters: resolving scalability challenges, ensuring economic sustainability, and opening new opportunities for developers. With a focus on interoperability and modular blockchains, he highlights how these advancements are reshaping DeFi ecosystems and liquidity dynamics.

Hasu, a Flashbots contributor and blockchain optimization expert, joins Robert Miller, who is innovating in the rollup space, to discuss groundbreaking advancements in trading systems. They delve into Unichain's unique approach to enhancing transaction speed and trade ordering. The duo explains how Trusted Execution Environments (TEEs) secure trading processes, boosting efficiency and user experience. They highlight the importance of creating specialized blockchains tailored for specific needs, paving the way for a more reliable and decentralized cryptocurrency landscape.

Mert Mumtaz, a Canadian entrepreneur and co-founder of Helios, dives into the innovative world of Solana's blockchain. He discusses its high-speed, low-cost transactions that challenge traditional models. The Pudgy Penguins launch is a highlight, showcasing community involvement despite hiccups in the claim process. Mert also explores ZK compression, scalability challenges as AI demands grow, and the complexities of Miner Extractable Value in Solana. His insights reveal the exciting technical advancements shaping the future of blockchain.