David Brooks, author and op-ed columnist, joins Sean Illing on a thought-provoking podcast. They discuss the moral history of America, the impact of politics and culture on our sense of community, and how to make things nicer in our society. Topics also include the role of capitalism, the negative impact of social media, and the importance of moral education. It's a deep dive into the state of America and what can be done to create a kinder society.

Every generation thinks they’re living through the strangest times, but is our generation right? Sean Illing speaks with writer and activist Naomi Klein about her new book, Doppelganger: A Trip Into the Mirror World. They discuss how a much different Naomi — her doppelganger — scrambled her professional life and led to an unexpected plunge into the ironies and absurdities of our digital world.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Naomi Klein (@NaomiAKlein), author of Doppelganger and the co-director of the Centre for Climate JusticeReferences: Doppelganger by Naomi Klein (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2023)The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism (Picador, 2008)No Logo: No Space, No Choice, No Jobs by Naomi Klein (Picador, 1999)Backlash by Susan Faludi (1991)The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power by Shoshana Zuboff (PublicAffairs, 2019)Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stuart J. Russell, a professor at the University of California Berkeley and director of the Center for Human-Compatible AI, discusses the dangers of losing control of AI and the potential upsides of this rapidly developing technology. They explore the concerns raised by the Future of Life Institute in an open letter, advocating for a pause in AI development. The podcast also delves into the benefits of AI in education and its potential impact on various aspects of life, such as finding cures for diseases and automating tasks.

Astra Taylor, author of The Age of Insecurity: Coming Together as Things Fall Apart, joins Sean Illing to discuss the history and reality of insecurity and how we can fight for more sustainable and meaningful democratic politics. They explore the connection between democracy and the human condition, the impact of capitalism and consumerism, and the struggles and critiques of democracy.

Sohrab Ahmari, a conservative intellectual, discusses his book on mapping out a post-Trump future for the Republican Party. They explore the concept of seeking a higher truth and the different visions of tyranny. They also discuss private tyranny in the economic sphere and the need to restore balance in markets and support workers.

"The Gray Area with Sean Illing" welcomes Kristen R. Ghodsee, author of "Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Wild Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Life." They discuss the challenges of imagining a better future, the lessons from experimental living communities, and the adaptability revealed by the pandemic. They explore alternative ways of living, the benefits of a communal approach to parenthood, and the potential transformation of our social order. This thought-provoking conversation challenges the status quo and highlights the importance of utopian thinking.

In this episode, which was originally published in August 2022, Sean Illing talks with Corey Robin, author of a 2019 book about the life and thought of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Robin discusses how Thomas — whose concurring opinion in the case that overturned Roe v. Wade garnered recent attention — developed the ideological basis of his extremist judicial philosophy, how his views went from the hard-right fringe to more mainstream over the course of his 30 years on the Supreme Court, and how the failures of the 1960s movements shaped his fundamental pessimism about racial progress in America.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Corey Robin (@CoreyRobin), author; professor of political science, Brooklyn College and CUNY Graduate CenterReferences:  The Enigma of Clarence Thomas by Corey Robin (Metropolitan; 2019) "The Self-Fulfilling Prophecies of Clarence Thomas" by Corey Robin (New Yorker; July 9) Clarence Thomas's opening statement, Anita Hill hearing (C-SPAN; Oct. 11, 1991) Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison (1952) Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization (2022); Thomas's concurrence American Negro Slave Revolts by Herbert Aptheker (1943) Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution - 1863–1877 by Eric Foner (1988; updated 2014) The Culture of Narcissism: American Life in An Age of Diminishing Expectations by Christopher Lasch (Norton; 1979) The Rhetoric of Reaction by Albert O. Hirschman (Harvard; 1991)  Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does masculinity mean these days? Sean Illing speaks with Christine Emba, a columnist at The Washington Post who wrote the piece “Men are lost. Here’s a map out of the wilderness.” Together they discuss the confusing state of manhood, why figures like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate hold appeal, and how masculinity could be redefined.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Christine Emba (@ChristineEmba), Washington Post columnist and author of Rethinking Sex: A ProvocationReferences: “Men are lost. Here’s a map out of the wilderness” by Christine Emba (The Washington Post, July 10, 2023) Rethinking Sex: A Provocation by Christine Emba (Sentinel, 2022) “Did the sexual revolution go wrong?” from The Gray Area (Vox, May 11, 2022) “Men and boys are struggling. Should we care?” from The Gray Area (Vox, December 12, 2022) “The Rage and Joy of MAGA America” by David French (The New York Times, July 6, 2023) Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Engineer: Patrick Boyd Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does it mean to be “authentic” in the digital age? Sean Illing speaks with Tara Isabella Burton about her new book, Self-Made: Creating Our Identities From Da Vinci to the Kardashians. They discuss the history of self-creation, how it’s evolved into personal branding, and why a more collective mindset could benefit all of us.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Tara Isabella Burton (@NotoriousTIB), author of Self-Made: Creating our Identities from Da Vinci to KardashianReferences:  Self-Made: Creating our Identities from Da Vinci to Kardashian by Tara Isabella Burton (Hachette, 2023) Strange Rites: New Religions for a Godless World by Tara Isabella Burton (Hachette, 2022) The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Engineer: Patrick Boyd Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the ‘80s and ‘90s, MDMA (also known as molly or ecstasy) was dismissed as a club drug and became the target of anti-drug propaganda. Today, it’s on the brink of being legalized for use in clinical therapy to treat conditions like PTSD. How did that happen? And what have we learned about the therapeutic potential of MDMA? Sean discusses all this with Rachel Nuwer, author of I Feel Love: MDMA and the Quest for Connection in a Fractured World. They talk about why they’re excited by the research underway and what it might mean for everyone's well-being.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Rachel Nuwer (@RachelNuwer), journalist and author of I Feel Love: MDMA and the Quest for Connection in a Fractured WorldReferences: “The extraordinary therapeutic potential of psychedelic drugs, explained,” by Sean Illing (Vox; March 8, 2019)How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence, by Michael Pollan“Rolling under the Sea: Scientists Gave Octopuses Ecstasy to Study Social Behavior,” by Rachel Nuwer (Scientific American, December 1, 2018)Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Erikk Geannikis Engineer: Patrick BoydEditorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices