In The Meritocracy Trap, Daniel Markovits argues that meritocracy — a system set-up to expand opportunity, reduce inequality and end aristocracy — has become exactly what it was set up to combat: a mechanism for intergenerational wealth transfer that leaves everyone worse off in the process.Markovits isn’t only challenging a system; he is challenging the system that I (and probably most of you) have been part of for our entire lives. For better or worse, Meritocracy is the water we swim in. We implicitly accept its values, practices, arguments, and assumptions because they govern our everyday lives.This interview was a chance for me to exit the water. Maybe it will be for you as well.Book recommendations: The Rise of the Meritocracy by Michael YoungThe Race between Education and Technology by Claudia Goldin and Lawrence F. Katz"Technical Change, Inequality, and The Labor Market" (article) by Daron AcemogluWant to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.comNews comes at you fast. Join us at the end of your day to understand it. Subscribe to Today, ExplainedWe are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“The truth is that as much democracy as this nation has today” writes Nikole Hannah-Jones “it has been borne on the backs of black resistance.”Hannah-Jones is an investigative journalist at the New York Times Magazine, the winner of MacArthur Genius Grant (among countless other awards), and, most recently, the creator of the New York Times’ 1619 project, which explores the ways slavery shaped America.As Hannah-Jones points out, no group in American history has more to teach us about what it means to live out the practice of democracy, in its most difficult and graceful form, than African-Americans. We also discuss:- The economics of slavery, and the role of the cotton gin- Why it took a civil war to end slavery in America, but not elsewhere- What it means to love a country that doesn’t love you back- Whether busing worked- Why Southern schools are the most racially integrated in the US- The long-term effects of school integration- Whether class-based policies can solve racial inequity- What America can learn from Cuba- Whether racism blocked social democracy in America- Whether any presidential candidates has a serious school integration plan- Why housing and education segregation are so rarely discussed by politicians- Why Hannah-Jones dislikes “gifted and talented” programs in schoolAnd much more.References: Hannah-Jones' opening essay of the 1619 project Hannah-Jones' essay on choosing a school for her daughter Book recommendations: Black Reconstruction in America 1860-1880 W.E.B. DuBois The Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel WilkersonThe Race Beat by Gene Roberts and Hank Klibanoff Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.comNews comes at you fast. Join us at the end of your day to understand it. Subscribe to Today, ExplainedWe are conducting an audience survey to better serve you. It takes no more than five minutes, and it really helps out the show. Please take our survey here: www.voxmedia.com/podsurvey.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m not usually a fanboy on this podcast, but this episode is the exception.I love the web-comic XKCD. I’ve had prints of it hanging in my house for years. It’s nerdy and humane, curious and kind. And every so often, it’s explosively, crazily creative, in ways that leave me floored. Like the Hugo-award winning “Time,” a 3,099 frame animation that unspooled every hour for over four months. Or the book Thing Explainer, which used only the 1,000 most common words in the English language to explain some of the hardest ideas in the world.XKCD is the work of one person, Randall Munroe, and I’ve wanted to talk with him for years. Now he’s out with a new book, How To: Absurd Scientific Advice for Common Real-World Problems, and I got my chance. The episode covers:- The simple places Munroe draws inspiration for his ideas- The fact that scientists still don’t know how lightning works or why ice is slippery- How pedantry kills creativity- Why aliens probably build suspension bridges like we do- The superpower of refusing to be embarrassed by what you don’t know- How to retain a sense of wonder as you age- Whether the water of Niagra Falls can fit through a straw- How to dig a hole- How a priest in 1590 intuited dozens of scientific discoveries centuries before they were officially discovered- And, most importantly, the best book recommendations I think I’ve ever heard on the showThis one was a pleasure.References: Jimmy Carter's Voyager letter Book recommendations: Natural and Moral History of the Indies by José de AcostaBecause Internet by Gretchen McCulloch Murmurs of Earth: The Voyager Interstellar Record by Carl Sagan (and others) Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.comNews comes at you fast. Join us at the end of your day to understand it. Subscribe to Today, Explained Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m careful about inviting politicians onto this podcast. Too often, questions go unanswered, and frustrated emails flood my inbox. So I only bring on candidates now if there’s a conversation directly related to themes of this show.In this case, there is.There’s a quiet moral radicalism powering Julián Castro’s presidential campaign. Laced through his policy agenda are proposals to decriminalize the movements of undocumented immigrants, to involve the homeless in housing policy, to establish American obligations to those displaced by climate change, to protect animals from human cruelty.This is an agenda to expand the moral circle. To redefine who counts in the “we” of American politics.I asked Castro if this wasn’t all a step too far, if Democrats didn’t need to play it safer to eject Trump from office in 2020. This broader moral vision, he replied, “is not just trying to backfill the negative. It gives people a positive purpose that they can reach for. That’s what I’m trying to do.”This is a candidate interview worth hearing.Book recommendations: Influence by Robert Cialdini The House on Mango Street by Sandra Cisneros Roots: The Saga of an American Family by Alex Haley Read the transcript of this interview here Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.comNews comes at you fast. Join us at the end of your day to understand it. Subscribe to Today, Explained Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Imagine, for a moment, what it’s like to be an animal rights activist. Tens of billions of animals are being tortured and slaughtered every year. It is, to you, a rolling horror. But to the people you love, the world you live in — it’s normal. You’re the weird one.So what do you do? How do you engage, politically and personally, when so few see what you see?Leah Garcés is the Executive President of Mercy for Animals and the author of Grilled: Turning Adversaries into Allies to Change the Chicken Industry ,which documents her journey to reduce the suffering of chickens by building coalitions with none other than well… industrial chicken farmers.I wanted Garcés on the show because her story is about more than animal suffering. It’s about the core question of politics: the choice we face, every day, between condemnation and compromise. Whether your issue is health care or climate or civil rights or abortion or taxes or foreign policy, you’re faced daily with people working for a world you find repellent. What do you do when they’re the majority and you’re the minority? How do you maintain your own morality when the system itself is sick? When do you draw bright lines, and when do you erase the lines you’ve spent your life drawing?This conversation gets uncomfortable at times — the realities of factory farming are not easy to face. But, trust me, you will want to stick with it. Garcés offers an extraordinary lesson in the daily practice of politics, one worth hearing even if it’s not ultimately your path.Book recommendations: Meat Racket by Christopher Leonard Big Chicken by Maryn McKenna Illumination in the Flatwoods: A Season with the Wild Turkey by Joe Hutto   Read the transcript of this interview hereIf you enjoyed this podcast, you may also like: The Green PillBruce Friedrich on how technology will reduce animal sufferingWant to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.comNews comes at you fast. Join us at the end of your day to understand it. Subscribe to Today, Explained Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello everyone. I'm Jane Coaston, senior politics reporter at Vox with a focus on conservatism (Ezra will be back from vacation next week). "Antiracism… is now a new and increasingly dominant religion” writes John McWhorter, “it is what we worship, as sincerely and fervently as many worship God and Jesus.”McWhorter is a Professor of English at Columbia University, a contributing editor to The Atlantic, and an outspoken critic of what he calls “third-wave antiracism.” He believes that our increasingly religious national discourse around race -- with its focus on “safe spaces,” “wokeness” and “white privilege” -- is not only wrongheaded, but even dangerous.But McWhorter isn't that easy to pin down. He acknowledges racism’s pernicious effects on communities of color, but believes that while we are busy calling out individual racism, we are ignoring the issues that most impact black lives: an endless War on Drugs, an unequal education system, and attacks on reproductive and voting rights.In this conversation, we explore what terms like “woke” and “diversity” actually mean, the types of issues that really do impact black communities, the legacy of the #BlackLivesMatter movement, the potential virtues of virtue signaling, why The Phantom Menace was (objectively) a terrible movie and much more. I hope y’all have as much fun with this conversation as I did.References: John's essay "The Virtue Signalers Won’t Change the World" Book recommendations: A Death in the Rainforest: How a Language and a Way of Life Came to an End in Papua New Guinea by Don Kulick American Pastoral by Philip Roth Furious Hours: Murder, Fraud, and the Last Trial of Harper Lee by Casey CepFollow Jane on Twitter @cjane87Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.comNews comes at you fast. Join us at the end of your day to understand it. Subscribe to Today, Explained Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everybody! I'm Jane Coaston, senior politics reporter at Vox with a focus on conservatism.Today, I'm speaking with Conor Friedersdorf, a staff writer for the Atlantic, who has been navigating the fractious divides within the conservative movement since long before 2016.Friedersdorf is extremely hard to pin down. His intellectual hero is Friedrich Hayek and he believes the Supreme Court “ought to thwart the will of democratic and legislative majorities.” He’s also staunchly anti-war, an outspoken critic of police brutality, and has even occasionally praised Bernie Sanders.This is what makes Friedersdorf so interesting to talk to: He doesn't fall neatly along partisan lines. We discuss a lot here: the importance of police reform; the way the term “racism” is used and misused in American politics; the future of the GOP; and what it means to be politically homeless in Trump's America.References:"A question for conservatives: what if the left was right on race?" by Jane Coaston, Vox"What Ails the Right Isn’t (Just) Racism" by Conor Friedersdorf, the AtlanticBook recommendations:The Authoritarian Dynamic by Karen StennerKindly Inquisitors by Jonathan RauchThe Constitution of Liberty by Friedrich A. HayekWant to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.comNews comes at you fast. Join us at the end of your day to understand it. Subscribe toToday, Explained Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Higgs, author of a reality-warping book on the KLF, engages in mind-bending conversation. Topics include: enigmatic band KLF and their million pound burn, Alan Moore's concept of idea space, the newosphere, unconventional creativity of the KLF, shift from modernism to postmodernism, Timothy Leary's perspective on reality, counterculture and Silicon Valley, and transformative impact of virtual reality in the workplace.

Author Jia Tolentino discusses the impact of the internet on identity formation and human interaction. She explores how online platforms distort self-perception, amplify opposition, and erode solidarity. The conversation touches on maintaining authenticity in a digital world and the transformation of human relationships in the age of technology.

Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor is an associate professor of African-American Studies at Princeton University and the author of multiple books, including most recently How We Get Free: Black Feminism and the Combahee River Collective, which traces the origins of the term “identity politics” back to its very first use.“Since 1977,” she writes, “that term has been used, abused, and reconfigured into something foreign to its creators.” Taylor’s intellectual history is driven by more than curiosity: it’s part of a larger vision that views racism and our contemporary economic system as inextricably linked.This is a conversation full of tough questions. What constitutes identity politics? When is it inclusive, and when is it exclusive? Is racism a function of capitalism or is it constant across economic systems? How did Barack Obama’s presidency lead to Donald Trump’s? What can stop future Democrats from running into the very same institutional strongholds that plagued Obama?Book recommendations: Black Reconstruction by W.E.B DuBois Selected poems of John Wieners Women, Race and Class by Angela Davis *******************************************************Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.comNews comes at you fast. Join us at the end of your day to understand it. Subscribe to Today, Explained: http://bit.ly/todayexplained Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices