The Legalpreneurs Sandbox

In the legal world, the delivery of services and products is no longer a single profession pursuit (if it ever was) – it’s too complex and the depth and breadth of client and employee needs and expectations too extensive to expect any one human to do it all! That aspect, the people bit, remains unchanged and has been emphasised even more with the advances in tech and AI. Having noted that, there are still many questions to be asked and answered about multidisciplinary teams in law firms and that’s where our guest for this podcast, Sarah El-Atm, General Manager at August, comes in. Sarah spent the past 12 months as a CLI Distinguished Fellow investigating answers to these questions (and many more)  -  we chatted about her experience as a Fellow too. Topics discussed in this episode included: Can multidisciplinary teams ever truly form and be successful in the legal world? Are their discernible characteristics for successful multidisciplinary teams in law firms? If so, what are they?  What’s holding the legal world back from understanding the benefits of a multidisciplinary team and embracing them in their workplaces? What are the benefits for law firms of multidisciplinary teams? Where do we start in developing and engaging a high performing multidisciplinary team? Congrats on completing your Fellowship, Sarah – there’s no doubt your amazing work will move the needle forward in a hugely important area!

With many of our guests we’ve discussed how technology is driving change at a pace that is as overwhelming as it is pervasive. We no longer work or live the same way we used to - change is challenging and shaking the foundations of who we are and what we do. These are big and small questions. They are as frightening as they are exhilarating. In this episode we discussed Professor Gillian Hadfield’s ground breaking work in identifying and finding answers to these questions (and many more). Her most recent book, Rules for a Flat World: Why Humans Invented Law and How to Reinvent It for a Complex Global Economy, is a case in point. Gillian is  the Schwartz Reisman Chair in Technology and Society, Professor of Law and Professor of Strategic Management. She is also the Director of the Schwartz Reisman Institute for Technology and Society at the University of Toronto, Faculty of Law. Topics discussed in this episode included: What’s is AI, really? How is the interdependence/co-dependence of humans and tech/AI changing and shaping a different set of questions to answer? What is the role of and how do we build or maintain the rule of law? Should we? How can a legal system, in many countries built on precedents, an adversarial approach to dispute resolution and risk aversion, stay relevant and protect consumers when the structure and rules it was built on are being challenged and redefined daily? Can we find answers to the big and small questions other than through inter or multidisciplinary collaboration? In our world today, how do we understand and manage all this complexity? What is the role of lawyers in all of this? Thank you so much for an exhilarating discussion, Gillian  – we love your work!

Tech and data are shaping and driving service and product purchases all around us. Client/customer expectations are increasingly based on their best purchasing experience everywhere, for every service/product, in every industry. Failing to embrace this reality and the increased competition from those inside and outside the legal industry points to a grim future for those in legal practice but, it doesn’t have to be a worst case scenario…. That’s where our guest, Rudi Kesic, CEO of Advantage Consulting, comes in. A lawyer and legalpreneur based in the UK, he and his team have developed not only cutting edge and innovative legal services/products but are also paving the way for a different approach to them too – client centric, tech fuelled, and data driven! We discussed two of Rudi’s recent innovations: Lawyer365 (L365) – a legaltech platform but much more. L365 provides clients with a place to find information (documents or short bursts of free legal advice from lawyers) that helps them when they need it (on demand and outside working hours) and how they need it (using video, text, etc.). It brings lawyers into the legal problem early, and, if the client needs more in-depth assistance and the matter then falls outside the scope of the initial free engagement, L365 has introduced the client to someone who will be able to help.  From the lawyer/provider viewpoint, while they pay to be there, they also have access to all sorts of amazing data that will help them be more effective and efficient lawyers. Verify365 – an aggregation of sources of identity (personal and big data related) that not only meet UK local and soon global legal requirements, but do so in a way that focuses on client convenience, user friendly tech and a ready to access/immediately usable report too. It’s defining and redefining digital id all at the same time! We could have but didn’t stop our discussion there. We also chatted about the world of legaltech in the UK, the changing expectations of legal clients, and the challenges and opportunities for lawyers in contemporary legal practice. Thank you so much, Rudi – congrats on all you are doing to bring the law to clients – you’re a trailblazer and a true legalpreneur! 

In this podcast for CLI’s ReinventED Legal Business: The Case Studies series, Terri Mottershead, Executive Director, Centre for Legal Innovation (Australia, New Zealand and Asia-Pacific) chatted with Fiona Kirkman, Principal of Kirkman Family Law about her work and her businesses in family law. Fiona’s vision is to empower families to obtain more amicable, efficient and cost-effective resolutions without court. Her passion is finding ways to utilise legal technology and dispute resolution processes to craft new ways to practise law. After working for over 15 years in traditional family law firms, Fiona brought her vision and passion together by starting her own family mediation firm - Kirkman Family Law - and a legaltech start-up with her techy husband Tim. In this session, Fiona discussed how the legaltech products that they’ve developed - LawSwitch & FamilyProperty - work in her dispute resolution practice. If you would also like to see a demo of their FamilyProperty platform, you will find it here. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this session, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free resource hub here.

In this podcast for CLI’s ReinventED Legal Business: The Case Studies series, Riz McDonald, Founder and Director of Foundd Legal discussed how she turned her dream about being her own boss into a reality and combined her passion for small business with her knowledge and understanding of the law to make Foundd the go-to legal service provider for businesses in the creative sphere. Since its inception, Foundd has grown into a practice that is known for putting its clients first, supporting the growth of small businesses, and delivering an outcome-focused service that stays in touch with the needs of its clients. Essentially, Riz is a part of each client's team, as an in-house lawyer of sorts - except in her own house! Foundd operates entirely online, and offers comprehensive contract templates, custom services for the tailoring and review of legal documents, and short courses geared towards like-minded entrepreneurs who are ready to learn how to make their business legally legit. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this session, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free resource hub here Don't forget to also check out and save the date for the other fabulous FREE ReinventED Legal Business: The Case Studies webinars - you'll find the details and registration links as we add them here.

Do we know what our clients really want from us? Is it the same as what it used to be and if not, how do we know and what’s changed? Should the client experience of our legal practices differ in the B2B or B2C market or, are there some things that every client wants? Are we providing legal services and products that best suit lawyers or those that truly cater to clients? What have we learnt from working with clients differently during COVID-19? What can we learn and emulate in the world of client experience from other industries? In this session, Howard Wilbury, Managing Director, Dutch Uncle, facilitated a discussion with those who “walk” this “talk” every day in the legal world of client experience: Justine Lamond, National Marketing and Business Manager, Nexus Law Group Melissa Scott, Senior Legal Counsel (Global), Megaport Carl White, Chief Experience Officer and Director, CXINLAW This podcast was part of the CLI-ALPMA Innovation and Legaltech Week 2021 Live program on 11 February 2021. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free resource hub here.

Can we profile today, the next legal services or products client? What do we know? What don’t we know? What are the key factors to consider? Do things like geography matter in a tech based, borderless world? How will we communicate and what tools will we use? How far ahead should we go – a year or a decade? What do we know today that MUST influence our clients’ choices tomorrow? What can we learn from other industries? In this podcast, Melissa Lyon, Executive Director and Experience Designer, Hive Legal and CLI Advisory Board member, facilitated a panel discussion focused on developing a profile of the next legal services/products client: Debra Filippin, Head of Business Development Asia Pacific, Pinsent Masons Michael Morrissey, Managing Director, Founder, Principal, Morrissey Law + Advisory Marlo Osborne-Smith, Director, NewLaw, PwC Carolyn Reynolds, General Counsel, Vicinity Centres This podcast was part of the CLI-ALPMA Innovation and Legaltech Week 2021 Live program on 11 February 2021. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free resource hub here.

Don’t think social media marketing is important in the legal world? Well, it might be time to think again!  In this podcast, digital marketing gurus Kaitlyn Gillies and Hayley Peters, Co-Founders, Oh My Digital Agency stepped us through the dos and don’ts of social media marketing. They were joined by  Adriana Giometti, Chief Marketing & Client Relations Officer, Holman Webb Lawyers and Rizwana McDonald, Founder and Director, Foundd Legal, who discussed how they have used social media as an integral part of marketing their firms and connecting with their clients. This podcast was part of the CLI-ALPMA Innovation and Legaltech Week 2021 Live program on 11 February 2021. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free resource hub here.

What’s the connection between innovation, legaltech and business performance – people! As we fast approach a marketplace where legaltech is widely available and affordable, legal practice will be less about what you know or can do with that tech and all about how you work collaboratively and leverage your experience through it. In this world, the dots between the engagement of your people and business performance are inextricably interconnected – it’s not people versus profit, its great people or no profit! In this podcast, Terri Mottershead, Executive Director, Centre for Legal Innovation (Australia, New Zealand and Asia-Pacific), facilitated a discussion exploring how connecting the dots between people and business performance is  influencing and impacting strategic talent management in the legal industry, and every industry, from recruitment to succession planning and everything in between. Terri was joined by people centred thought leaders and doers: Jason Elias, Chief Executive Officer/Specialist Legal Recruiter, Elias Recruitment and Australian Recruitment Leader of the Year 2020 Emily Mortimer, Director Human Resources, Piper Alderman Deborah Stonley, Director of People & Culture, Maddocks Natasha Winton, Senior Director HR, Asia Pacific, The Boston Consulting Group This podcast was part of the CLI-ALPMA Innovation and Legaltech Week 2021 Live program on 10 February 2021. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free resource hub here.

In 2017, Thomas Friedman challenged us to reflect on how we would all work differently in the age of technology. In 2021, it’s time to ask the tough questions and…act! So, if machines can do what lawyers used to do, better, cheaper, and faster, why do we need lawyers? How will lawyers continue to add value? How do we define that value? Could it be, at a time when there is so much focus on technology, that ethical responsibilities, humanity, and purpose, our “hearts,” will be our most enduring and endearing asset?  In this podcast, Karen Finch, CEO, Legally Yours Pty Ltd, facilitated a discussion with the people who are re-shaping the future of legal work and, consequently, supporting the evolution of a new and different legal workplace culture: Martine Barclay, Principal Psychotherapist, Leadership Coach & Wellbeing Expert, Redefine Your Edge Tom Dreyfus, CEO & Co-Founder, Josef Sarah El-Atm, General Manager, August Louise Ferris, Chief People Officer, McCullough Robertson This podcast was part of the CLI-ALPMA Innovation and Legaltech Week 2021 Live program on 10 February 2021. If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free resource hub here.