The Programming Podcast

On this episode of The Programming Podcast, Danny Thompson and Leon Noel unpack the biggest programming myths that confuse developers at every level. From “AI will take all dev jobs” to “DRY at all costs,” they separate hype from reality and share hard-won lessons from real teams in production.You will hear why paper Big-O is not the whole story, how cache behavior and data size impact real performance, and why map/reduce vs for loops is a wash on modern engines. We get into testing culture too: why E2E does not replace unit tests, how to use AI for test scaffolding without losing your engineering brain, and what actually improves product reliability. Danny also tackles the myths that Java is slow and GC is always bad, and both hosts talk about the cost curve where cloud is not cheaper than on-prem.The conversation closes with an “Ask Danny and Leon” mailbag on what really separates junior, mid, and senior engineers: independence, guardrails, impact, and the quality of questions you ask.If this helped, drop a comment with a myth you want us to tackle next, and subscribe for more practical, no-fluff engineering talk.Topics include:AI as a productivity tool vs one-click magicBig-O vs real-world performance and memory behaviorjQuery, Deno, Bun, and the hype cycleJavaScript the language vs browser APIsmap/reduce vs for loops on modern enginesUnit tests, integration tests, E2E, and using AI wiselyJava performance and garbage collection tuningDRY vs duplication and over-abstractionAccessibility as a defaultCloud costs vs on-prem at scaleCareer ladder: junior, mid, senior traitsHosts: Danny Thompson (Director of Technology, This Dot Labs; Commit Your Code Conference) and Leon Noel (Managing Director of Engineering, Resilient Coders; instructor at 100Devs)Chapters00:00 Intro and why myths still persist00:58 Host intros and setup for “Gem City” episode02:00 Myth 1: “AI is taking all dev jobs”03:33 When AI image gen goes sideways and why it is a tool, not a replacement06:03 Leon’s motion-blur trick for more believable AI images07:08 Myth 2: Big-O vs real performance in the wild09:52 Cache misses, allocation, data size, and why paper math can mislead11:30 Myth 3: “jQuery is dead” and the reality in legacy estates12:23 Deno and Bun hype vs actual employer adoption13:32 Why jQuery still ships and what we lost chasing complexity15:30 JavaScript the language vs DOM and host environment APIs16:58 Myth 4: “map/reduce are slower than for loops” on modern engines18:11 Myth 5: “E2E replaces unit tests”20:57 When testing cultures go wrong and how to course-correct22:46 Using AI for tests without losing critical thinking25:03 The 80-20 way to use AI on tickets and test suites27:01 Danny gets baited, Leon laughs28:01 Myth 6: “Java is slow” and “GC is always bad”30:30 Region and concurrent collectors, and why allocation patterns matter31:02 Engine differences and mental models across stacks31:58 Myth 7: “Everything must be DRY” vs useful duplication33:01 Strong opinions held weekly and leaving dogma behind34:22 How dev opinions evolve with experience34:52 Accessibility as a default, not a later task36:29 Myth 8: “Cloud is always cheaper than on-prem”37:17 Real-world cost surprises and pulling workloads back38:30 Hype cycles, Jamstack memories, and maintenance pain41:56 On-prem done right and budget realities43:49 Mailbag: junior vs mid vs senior, company variance45:25 Danny’s framework for levels: guardrails, impact, and ownership51:10 The power of high-quality questions at senior and staff levels52:10 Leveling up from mid: own initiatives and become the firefighter53:31 Wrap-up and sign-off

6,000 Applications. 0 Jobs. What Went Wrong?In this episode, Danny & Leon break down the recent New York Times article about the collapse of $165,000 tech jobs — and why so many new computer science graduates are struggling to find work.This one gets personal. We dig into salary expectations, the rise of AI coding tools, offshoring, and the real reasons grads are stuck. Plus, we share how bad advice keeps job seekers trapped, and why networking + projects matter more than ever.⚠️ Disclaimer: This episode is heavier than usual. We felt deeply for the people featured in this article — so much so that we reached out to one of them, Zach, who applied to nearly 6,000 jobs, and spent 90 minutes helping him reframe his job search strategy. Our goal isn’t to mock, but to help anyone who feels stuck right now.If you’re in the middle of the job hunt, or just want to understand what’s happening in tech careers in 2025 — this is a must-listen.NEW SITE https://www.programmingpodcast.com/Stay in Touch:📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!Danny Thompsonhttps://x.com/DThompsonDevhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/DThompsonDevwww.DThompsonDev.comLeon Noelhttps://x.com/leonnoelhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/leonnoel/https://100devs.org/📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!⏱️ Chapters00:00 – Disclaimer & why this episode is different03:19 – Why we reacted to the NYT article live05:25 – Setting the stage: “Goodbye $165K tech jobs”06:59 – The salary inflation problem08:03 – Networking: why tech is no longer a free pass10:10 – Purdue grad struggles despite strong background15:23 – The promise (and failure) of the CS degree18:18 – The “learn to code = six figures” myth20:22 – FANG vs. reality: most jobs aren’t like that22:01 – Is AI really taking developer jobs? (spoiler: no)23:53 – Offshoring is the real threat25:39 – Headcount growth vs. layoff panic26:32 – Unemployment rates: myth vs. reality29:20 – The hidden flaw in applying to 6,000 jobs32:21 – “Clickers” & why mass-applying doesn’t work34:02 – Bootcamps & the cycle of bad advice35:38 – Ghosting, coding assessments & job search burnout39:02 – Zach’s story: 5,762 applications, 0 jobs41:01 – Why customizing your resume matters43:08 – The wrong vs. right way to job hunt46:13 – Reddit resumes & bad job hunt advice47:23 – Misreporting AI tools (CodeRabbit example)49:24 – The AI doom loop in job search52:12 – Government jobs, hiring freezes & policy shifts53:00 – The Purdue grad pivots to tech sales55:03 – Why the article fails its own subjects57:22 – Offshoring vs. AI (the real culprit)58:00 – What job seekers should be doing now59:32 – Listener Q&A: networking while still learning01:03:46 – The power of small, intentional networking01:06:11 – Balancing a non-tech job & coding journey01:09:49 – Final advice & episode wrap-up

In this episode of The Programming Podcast, Leon Noel and Danny Thompson dive deep into the wild, twist-filled journey of Figma, from a college side project that almost became a meme generator to a $58 billion IPO.We break Figma’s story into five acts, uncovering the pivotal moments, technical breakthroughs, and business decisions that made it one of the most beloved design tools in the world. From WebGL wizardry to multiplayer design magic, early skepticism to industry adoption by giants like Uber and Notion, we explore how Dylan Field and Evan Wallace built a browser-based platform that changed design forever.NEW SITE https://www.programmingpodcast.com/Stay in Touch:📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!💡 Sponsor: Level Up Financial PlanningChanging careers or increasing your income? Get financial clarity with Level Up Financial Planning—helping early and mid-career tech professionals secure their financial future. Visit LevelUpFinancialPlanning.com for a free consultation!https://www.levelupfinancialplanning.com/Danny Thompsonhttps://x.com/DThompsonDevhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/DThompsonDevwww.DThompsonDev.comLeon Noelhttps://x.com/leonnoelhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/leonnoel/https://100devs.org/📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!You’ll hear about:- The origin story and near-misses (drones, memes, and more)- Technical innovations with WebGL, WebAssembly, and real-time collaboration- The leadership and hiring lessons learned the hard way- Figma’s breakout moments during Adobe Fireworks’ demise and the pandemic- The $20 billion Adobe acquisition that never happened — and the $1 billion breakup fee- How Figma stayed true to its vision and went public with massive momentumWhether you’re a designer, developer, startup founder, or just curious about how tech products scale from scrappy beginnings to global dominance, this is a masterclass in perseverance, timing, and execution.🎧 Listen in, drop a like, and let us know in the comments if you use Figma!Chapters00:00 – Intro & Setting the Stage01:14 – Figma in Five Acts02:54 – Act 1: The Idea Maze – Drones, Memes, and Crossroads06:13 – The Best Meme Generator Nobody Needed08:56 – WebGL Breakthroughs and Browser-Based Design12:29 – The Power of GPU Rendering & WebAssembly15:53 – Key Performance Tricks – Batch & Delta Rendering17:57 – Building a Custom Text Engine & Multiplayer Vision27:00 – The Adobe Fireworks Discontinuation Moment29:12 – Naming the Product – Why “Figma” Stayed31:13 – Act 2: Building and Struggling with Perseverance33:40 – Early Management Struggles and Leadership Pivot36:33 – Choosing Urgency Over Perfection37:14 – Early Launch Without Multiplayer39:18 – Harsh Early Feedback and User Skepticism40:59 – Securing New Funding & Preparing for Multiplayer41:23 – Act 3: Unlocking Multiplayer Design42:41 – Design Parties and Winning Over Skeptics44:27 – Big-Name Adoption: Uber, Notion, and Market Validation46:44 – Series B & C Fundraising Momentum46:50 – Act 4: Scale and Impact47:04 – Engineers Handling Support for Deep Empathy48:22 – Browser-Based Updates and Rapid Iteration49:43 – Monetization Debate & Investor Pushback51:44 – Act 5: The Pandemic Changes Everything52:57 – Figma’s Remote Collaboration Advantage54:37 – The Launch of FigJam55:39 – Capitalizing on Two Key Market Moments56:39 – Adobe’s $20B Acquisition Attempt58:08 – Regulatory Block & $1B Breakup Fee59:31 – Secondary Funding and IPO Readiness1:00:41 – Dylan Field’s Final Lessons & Closing Thoughts1:02:02 – Outro

If you're learning JavaScript in 2025, **this is the definitive roadmap** you didn’t know you needed. Whether you're just opening your first `.js` file or you’ve been dabbling and finally want to get serious, this episode of *The Programming Podcast* with Danny Thompson and Leon Noel is a *masterclass in what actually matters*.NEW SITE https://www.programmingpodcast.com/Stay in Touch:📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!💡 Sponsor: Level Up Financial PlanningChanging careers or increasing your income? Get financial clarity with Level Up Financial Planning—helping early and mid-career tech professionals secure their financial future. Visit LevelUpFinancialPlanning.com for a free consultation!https://www.levelupfinancialplanning.com/Danny Thompsonhttps://x.com/DThompsonDevhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/DThompsonDevwww.DThompsonDev.comLeon Noelhttps://x.com/leonnoelhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/leonnoel/https://100devs.org/📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!We break down:* ✅ What to learn (and **why** each concept matters)* ✅ How to structure your learning path without getting overwhelmed* ✅ The **hard truths** about JavaScript in the real world* ✅ Mistakes that beginners make (and how to avoid them)* ✅ How to go from *tutorial nightmares* to building projects that actually get you hired “You don’t need 50 tutorials, you need 20 projects that work your brain in the right way.”We cover everything from fundamentals (variables, loops, functions) to advanced topics like async/await, the event loop, testing, and working with frameworks like React and backend tools like Node.js. We don’t just tell you *what* to learn — we tell you *how to think like a developer*.Whether you're headed toward a front-end career, full stack mastery, or just want to build real apps, this roadmap will serve you today and 10 years from now. No fluff. No hype. Just honest, actionable advice from two developers who have taught thousands of devs to land six-figure jobs.Leave a comment with the word (gotta watch to the end) if you made it to the end. We want to shout out the real ones.🔔 Subscribe for more episodes, and drop a like if you got value, it costs nothing but tells us to keep going.Chapters00:00 – Why This Roadmap Had to Be Made03:15 – The Only Reason to Learn JavaScript in 202506:30 – What Companies Actually Use JavaScript For10:00 – The Big 4: Variables, Loops, Conditionals, Functions17:00 – Arrays, Objects, and the Must-Know Methods (Map, Filter, Reduce)23:30 – Practice Over Theory: Codewars, Repetition & Your First 20 Projects29:00 – Async/Await, APIs, and What the Event Loop Actually Does35:00 – DOM Manipulation vs. JavaScript: What’s Really Going On38:30 – When to Learn React, Node, and TypeScript44:00 – Why Testing (Especially Unit Testing) Makes You Stand Out51:00 – Git, GitHub, and Getting Comfortable with Deployment56:00 – Stop Being Scared of Errors — Learn to Debug Like a Dev01:00:00 – Building the Mindset to Learn Forever01:05:00 – Final Thoughts + Community Q&A Prompt

Struggling to land software engineering interviews—or worse, landing them but not getting the callback? In this game-changing episode of The Programming Podcast, Danny Thompson and Leon Noel break down the THRIVE framework—a strategy designed to help you crush behavioral interviews and stand out as a top-tier candidate.Danny reveals his THRIVE acronym:Targeted ResearchHonest NarrativesResults FocusInteractive EngagementValidation of AlignmentElevate Impact & Extend the DialogueThey walk through real-world examples, mock interview experiences, storytelling mistakes, and practical ways to improve your resume, LinkedIn, one-on-ones, and technical communication.You'll learn how to:Own the “Tell Me About Yourself” questionUse STAR/CAR frameworks to articulate your impactRead between the lines for team pain pointsTurn interviews into conversations, not interrogationsFollow up like a pro and leave a lasting impressionIf you're tired of sending resumes into the void or bombing interviews despite knowing your stuff—this is the episode you bookmark. Whether you’re a junior dev, mid-level engineer, or transitioning into tech, this episode is packed with actionable strategies that can change your job hunt trajectory.🧠 Bonus: We also answer a question on how to break into global remote jobs as a junior developer.🎙️ Subscribe for more developer career advice, technical breakdowns, and real talk from Leon and Danny.📍 Chapters / Timestamps0:00 - Intro: Why You're Not Getting Interview Callbacks1:16 - Real Stories from Struggling Devs2:14 - Why Behavioral Interviews Matter More Than You Think4:55 - Introducing the THRIVE Framework5:17 - T = Targeted Research: Dig Deeper into the Company13:03 - H = Honest Narratives: Tell Stories with Purpose24:00 - Using STAR and CAR Frameworks for Impact28:07 - R = Results Focus: Show Business Impact with Metrics32:26 - The Developer Log: Document Your Wins Weekly35:00 - Use 1:1s to Get Promoted, Not Just Managed36:59 - I = Interactive Engagement: Make It a Conversation43:04 - Practice Interviewing Like Sales Conversations45:03 - Why Sales & Communication Skills Matter in Tech46:11 - V = Validation of Alignment: Are You the Fit They Need?48:22 - Advocating for Yourself in Interviews52:08 - E = Elevate Impact & Extend the Dialogue54:00 - What to Say When They Ask: “Do You Have Any Questions?”56:45 - Bookending Interviews to Leave a Strong Final Impression1:01:27 - Effort-to-Reward Ratios in Job Hunting1:04:01 - Ask Danny & Leon: Can You Land a Global Remote Job?1:10:14 - Final Thoughts & Outro: Play the Game, Don’t Just Watch

In this engaging discussion, the hosts reveal how AI tools are reshaping developer workflows and enhancing productivity. They share experiences with tools like Whisper Flow and Cursor, emphasizing adaptability in tech. The conversation touches on how AI aids communication and reduces workload stress. They also explore balancing automation with personal expression, and strategies for managing productivity challenges. Finally, insights on optimizing coding efficiency with AI and aligning skills to market demands round out this insightful exploration.

In this special three-act deep dive of The Programming Podcast, hosts Danny Thompson (Director of Technology at This Dot Labs) and Leon Noel (Managing Director of Engineering at Resilient Coders) unpack the roller-coaster saga of Windsurf’s attempted acquisition.- Act I covers the OpenAI offer, a jaw-dropping $3 billion deal that promised to supercharge OpenAI’s IDE ambitions, only to be derailed by Microsoft’s pre-existing IP clause granting co-ownership of any new code.- Act II explores Google’s strategic “halo hire”, where Verun Moan sidestepped a full buyout in favor of a $2.4 billion non-exclusive licensing deal that bolsters Gemini without triggering antitrust alarms. - Finally, in Act III, we analyze Cognition.ai’s employee-first acquisition, where key Windsurf engineers joined the Devon team under an ownership-stake model, keeping Windsurf alive and profitable.Stick around for our “Ask Danny & Leon” segment, where we lay out an actionable AI roadmap from advanced prompting techniques and RAG/vector database strategies to core programming principles to help you stay relevant in today’s AI-driven dev landscape.Stay in Touch:📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!Danny Thompsonhttps://x.com/DThompsonDevhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/DThompsonDevwww.DThompsonDev.comLeon Noelhttps://x.com/leonnoelhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/leonnoel/https://100devs.org/📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!📖 Chapters / Timestamps0:00 Intro & Three-Act Structure Overview 1:04 Act I Meet Windsurf (What & Why It Matters) 3:47 OpenAI’s \$3 B Acquisition Talks & Market Context 6:01 Windsurf’s \$100 M ARR & IDE Wars Dynamics 8:38 Microsoft’s Hidden IP Co-Ownership Clause Explained 11:40 Deal Collapse: 48 Hours to Ruin 12:05 Act II Google’s “Halo Hire” Strategy 13:27 Licensing vs. Acquisition: Financials & Antitrust 19:03 Google’s Non-Exclusive License & Gemini Integration 23:04 Impact on Enterprise Adoption & Customer Base 24:09 Act III Cognition.ai Acquires Key Talent 26:00 “Aqua Hire” vs. Full Buyout: Talent Over IP 29:03 Employee-First Ownership Model & Vesting 30:52 Meta & the Broader AI Talent Arms Race 33:43 What This Means for AI Tooling Market 36:52 “Ask Danny & Leon” Building Your AI Roadmap 44:03 Deep Dive: Prompting, RAG, Caching & Pre-Fetching 49:08 Core Dev Principles for Effective AI Use 53:12 Sneak Peek: *Practical Developer’s Guide to AI* 54:01 Outro, Viewer Giveaway & Next Episode Teaser

Is it WRONG to work at 4 different tech companies at the exact same time!? This is a very spicy episode, Danny Thompson and Leon Noel dive into the viral story of Soham Parekh—the engineer who somehow landed four tech jobs at the same time., multiple times. We unpack:Ethics & Overemployment: Is it right or wrong to juggle multiple full-time roles?Viral Playbook: How Soham’s informal outreach email and Harvard-style resume “gamed” early-stage startups.Interview as a Game: Why knowing the rules—and playing them—is your biggest advantage.Networking Secrets: Low-noise, high-signal tactics that beat out 60,000 applicants.Audience Q&A: Your burning questions on representing yourself vs. outright lying in interviews.💡 Want more insider tips? Hit Subscribe, smash that Like button, and drop your questions in the comments below!00:00 Intro & Episode Overview 02:27 Meet Your Hosts: Danny & Leon 04:04 Who Is Soham Par? 05:07 Viral Mixpanel Tweet Breakdown 09:36 Anatomy of the Outreach Email 13:40 Why Early-Stage Startups? 17:05 Can You Really Juggle Four Tech Jobs? 19:28 The Interview Process as a Game 23:50 Deep Dive: Soham’s Resume 29:11 Power of Referrals vs. 60,000 Applicants 32:09 Low-Noise, High-Signal Networking 35:04 Authenticity & Human Connection 46:26 Leading Cohort Teams: Tips & Tactics 55:34 Ask Danny & Leon: Your Questions 56:05 Q&A: Representing Yourself vs. Lying 59:48 Q&A: Humble Bragging & Self-Promotion 1:00:42 Outro & Closing Remarks

In this episode, Danny and Leon are joined by James Quick, Head of Developer Experience at BigCommerce, to unpack all the major announcements from Vercel Ship 2025. We cover:NEW SITE https://www.programmingpodcast.com/Stay in Touch:📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!💡 Sponsor: Level Up Financial PlanningChanging careers or increasing your income? Get financial clarity with Level Up Financial Planning—helping early and mid-career tech professionals secure their financial future. Visit LevelUpFinancialPlanning.com for a free consultation!https://www.levelupfinancialplanning.com/Danny Thompsonhttps://x.com/DThompsonDevhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/DThompsonDevwww.DThompsonDev.comLeon Noelhttps://x.com/leonnoelhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/leonnoel/https://100devs.org/📧 Have ideas or questions for the show? Or are you a business that wants to talk business?Email us at dannyandleonspodcast@gmail.com!- The new AI Gateway and what “no vendor lock-in” really means- Active CPU pricing and how it can save you real money at scale- Rolling Releases vs. A/B testing for safer, incremental deployments- Bot ID: Vercel’s AI-powered bot protection for logins, checkouts, and expensive LLM endpoints- Micro-frontends and how they fit into your Next.js apps- Sandboxes for isolated testing of AI agents and prototypes- Plus, stick around for our Ask Danny & Leon Q&A on building a stand-out portfolio and getting your first software role👍 If you enjoyed this deep dive, hit Like, Subscribe, and ring the 🔔 to never miss an episode!💬 Drop your questions for the next Ask segment in the comments.🌐 Follow us on Twitter: @DThompsonDev | @LeonNoelTimestamps00:00 – Welcome & Host Introductions01:42 – Overview of Vercel Ship 202507:08 – AI Gateway: One Endpoint for Every Model10:22 – Active CPU Pricing: Pay Only for What You Use14:46 – Rolling Releases: Safer, Incremental Deployments20:52 – Rolling Releases vs. A/B Testing Explained24:47 – Bot ID: Invisible AI-Powered Bot Protection30:03 – Sponsor Break: Level Up Financial Planning33:07 – UX & Partnership: Why Vercel’s Strategy Matters36:05 – Sandboxes: Isolated AI & Code Testing40:03 – The Shift to AI Cloud & Future Workflows44:47 – Ask Danny & Leon: Portfolio, LinkedIn & Landing Jobs53:30 – Wrap-Up & What’s NextEnjoy the show!

In this episode of The Programming Podcast, Danny Thompson and Leon Noel dive deep into three key topics that every developer should know right now:Vercel’s Fluid Compute — What it is, why it matters, and how a single toggle can slash your cloud costs.JavaScript .map() explained — Not just for beginners! Real-world enterprise use cases and how it protects your original data.New CSS features — Danny brings in a fresh concept that blew his mind over the weekend.They also share powerful insights on how to build momentum after a tech conference, including actionable tips to turn casual conversations into long-term relationships.Finally, Danny shares his AI prompting technique that radically improves the quality of responses from ChatGPT and other tools — and you’ll want to steal this trick.💡 Whether you're junior or senior, working on side projects or leading enterprise teams, this episode packs in practical advice, strategy, and laughs.👇 Chapters below — don’t forget to like, subscribe, and leave a review (or hit dislike twice 😉)!⏱️ Timestamps / Chapters:0:00 – Intro and janky apps vs. enterprise hacks1:00 – Podcast kickoff & thank you for 219 5-star reviews2:30 – Vercel Fluid Compute: Why this one toggle changes everything4:45 – Multi-threading explained with real examples7:00 – Impact on React apps, cost savings, and AI workloads10:00 – Enterprise-scale architecture shifts11:00 – JavaScript .map() – Real-world usage breakdown13:40 – Map vs. original data: what juniors often miss15:00 – Data protection and use cases with sensitive info16:50 – Why .map() is like let for arrays17:30 – React, enterprise component architecture, and separation of concerns19:00 – CSS concept teaser (covered later or in next episode)37:00 – How to improve your AI prompts dramatically38:10 – Danny’s exact prompt to get better ChatGPT responses39:30 – Ask Danny & Leon: How to keep momentum after a tech conference41:00 – Leon’s tips: Thank-yous, Twitter lists, and coffee chats42:00 – Danny’s pre-conference strategy and post-event follow-up44:00 – Junior vs. senior approaches to networking46:00 – Funny origin story: How this podcast started from a conference joke47:00 – Building genuine relationships with thoughtful follow-ups49:00 – Outro – Thanks for tuning in!