Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm Collins

In this episode, we are joined by author and podcast host Louise Perry to discuss solutions for improving modern dating and relationships. We cover how to better find a spouse through social connections, college years being optimal, and why delaying marriage and having "practice" relationships often backfires.Louise explains why dogs are a poor substitute for children when it comes to satisfying maternal/paternal instincts. We discuss arranged marriages, the risks of teenage relationships, and why conservative women often have an advantage. Louise argues frustrated maternal impulses can motivate young childless women toward "empathetic" political causes.We also touch on policy ideas like giving tuition incentives for having kids in college, supporting multi-generational living, and reforms to enable combining work and motherhood more smoothly. Overall, a fascinating discussion on improving the "dating market" and cultural approaches to marriage and family.Louise Perry: [00:00:00] The other thing that I'd add, this might not apply as much in the workplace, but definitely in terms of politics, I would say that frustrated maternal impulse is a very politically potent and potentially dangerous force. Yeah. And I think that like, say, I dunno, attitudes towards refugees in the UK, this might not be as, as acute in the U S I don't know.But I, I. Or any number of political causes, this is just one example, I, I think that the reason you see disproportionate numbers of young women who don't have children drawn to these kind of high, like, highly charged, empathetic situations where you are like trying to save groups of people, right, who may well be adult men.But I, I honestly think that a big part of that is, it's, it's like, it's like with getting the dogs, you know, it's this, it's this tug towards mothering. Something is really goodMalcolm Collins: heart take.[00:01:00] Would you like to know more?Malcolm Collins: Hello, this is Malcolm Collins here today with, of course, my lovely wife, Simone Collins and Louise Perry, our special guest today. You would may know her from the Maiden Mother Matriarch podcast, or you may know her from her book The Case Against the Sexual Revolution.And if you do not know her we recently did a tour in the UK talking with a lot of rising political, well, conservative political stars, because of course that's who talks to us. And, she was repeatedly named as the number one conservative thought leader in the intellectual side in the UK right now.And so we are thrilled to have her on our podcast. The question I wanted to focus on was in this episode, is how Can we make dating? Because I think if we look at the world today, everyone who is being honest is saying gender dynamics do not seem to be working right now. So what do you advise when you're advising young girls or young boys [00:02:00] about how to go out there?Because let's be honest, they are in a dramatically worse situation than we were. How do you advise them to go out there and find partners and how much you build a new systems that could help them?Simone Collins: It'sLouise Perry: really difficult. And I say this as someone who's, I've been with my husband for 10 years and I, and I have that feeling of being the sort of, um, last chopper out of Saigon, right?Because it was, because it was, because it was pre dating apps that we met and, and we just met through, it's through friends, the sort of good old fashioned, well, not quite good old fashioned, right? Like good old fashioned is actually an arranged marriage. But there was this sort of, like, brief window, right, post sexual revolution, pre dating apps, where, where you generally met people through actual existing social connections.And I would always advise, where possible, to meet people through actual existing social connections, because apart from anything else, it means you have some kind of vetting process available. The problem with a dating app is it's just a stranger from the internet. And they can, and people will admit people who, who [00:03:00] like friends of mine, male and female who've used dating apps will admit that they behave worse with people they've met on dating apps in terms of ghosting or whatever, because they know there are no social consequences because you know that no one is going to then spread a rumor that they're.That they're like a shitty person who ghosts people. This is, you know, particularly if you're in a big city like London, there are just so many millions of people that they disappear into the night. It's like, it almost doesn't feel real, I think, when you're used to dating out. So, yeah, real social connections is better.It is difficult though. I'm sure you've, you've seen these graphs about how people meet over time and you went from being like an enormous number of people met at church for instance and then and then and then you see all of that stuff and or at work and then you see all of that stuff declining and um uh the apps taking their place and hey sometimes people do have flourishing marriages that started on the internet.It's not, you know, it's not nothing. One of the things that we've tried to do with the podcast is we had a, we had a matchmaking event in [00:04:00] London a few months ago. Yeah. And we're going to do another one. We're planning on doing another one on Valentine's day. In fact, I mean, I'll tell you, they are not a good way of making money because you have, you can completely see why the people who created the apps are, you know, multimillionaires plus, right?Because it's that the internet is like endlessly reproducible, whereas in real life events are not endlessly reproducible and actually put a lot of work and effort into having, I mean, I think it was 60 people who came to the first one. Having all these 60 people in a room is actually very like logistically demanding.We thought, no, we're going to do it because. The podcast, if you're listening to my podcast that tells you something about your values, right? It'sSimone Collins: culturally selective. They're somewhat aligned values.Louise Perry: Yeah. It's a very useful filter. What was the structure of these events? So we got people to email or to fill in an online form where they gave some basic stuff.The kind of demographic details of photo and a [00:05:00] few other things about like. religiosity and stuff. And then we we, we mostly just, we mostly selected on the basis of having even numbers of men and women and having roughly the same age ranges. Like for instance, we had, we had like too many young men apply.So we had to exclude some of the young men because a 35 year old woman is not likely to be interested in it. 20 year old man, right? So we did a little bit of tailoring like that and we'll do that for the future. I mean, people have requested, you know, specific age range events and things like that.So with sufficient demand, we can do that. But like you can see why this isn't as popular as you'd hope because it is, it is like, it is labor intensive and it's quite small numbers that you're dealing with, but it's also much, much higher quality. Because you're filtering on the basis of one, everyone there had to want to get married.Like that was one of the key things. So no one was there just to hook up. And everyone had, you could kind of have a basic assurance of shared values, which you can't really find anywhere else, except maybe in religious communities. But then I hear from, I mean, I, I [00:06:00] have a friend, for instance, who met.who met his who met his wife at like a young adults Catholic thing, you know, that you can meeting through church is, is probably this, I would say meeting through extended friend, extended friend networks, meeting through church or whatever other religious organization. Now meeting through one of my podcast events is obviously the top of the list.Cause I want to be, I want to be invited to the wedding, but in terms of like the. That you definitely want to be prioritizing real social connections. But I do have enormous sympathy because it's like, that does limit your pool a lot.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So I want to pull on something you said, because it's something we're doing for our kids.And I'm wondering if you were, had you ever considered doing this for, for, for your kids is arranged marriages. We are looking at specifically the way we're properly going to structure it is around the age of like 24, 25. They get a partner assigned to them that we chose from a network of other family friends who are open to doing this.And if you want to join, let us know. And we basically say, look, this [00:07:00] is the one chance you get. Like, we're not going to find another partner for you. If you turn this down, then you're on your own. And it's funny. I mentioned this to a lot of like millennials and they're horrified. I mentioned this to Gen Z and they're like, Oh my God, I wish my parents would do thatLouise Perry: for me.Please relieve me of my suffering. Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. So I think that probably the, the ideal, well. If you look at different, how different cultures deal with this problem, which is a very, very difficult coordination problem. Like we must not understate how difficult this coordination problem is. It's, it's through like softer range marriages, right?It's not the, you've never met this person and you're betrothed at the age of 12 or something like that, right? That is unusual. It's more likely you hear about that or you read about that in history more often because aristocrats would be more likely to do that, but normal, but normal people are normally not doing that.It's more like you basically have a curated pool to choose from. from, or you can choose and then we have to, we can veto like the family can veto, which I think honestly is actually a great way of [00:08:00] doing it because, and in practice, you know, often does my, my husband and I often joke that sort of on paper, we could have been in arranged marriage in the sense that we have very kind of similar families, like there's just lots of ways in which we're very socially sympathetic, right.As a couple, as it happens, we just got lucky, but, you know, you can. I think that what does typically happen, honestly, in the best kind of matches is you, you meet the person yourself, but the families have to be on board for it to actually work. And it soon becomes evident if the families are not on board.And, and then maybe the relationship with us, you know, but any kind of scenario where the families are completely not on board is just, is just so likely to end in tears. I mean, so, so that's a softer range barriers and that's probably is the ideal scenario.Malcolm Collins: I think in the context of this is interesting to sort of reflect on how sort of crazy the way our society right now is like, we know we're supposed to find a spouse.So I think [00:09:00] initially the idea was, well, you still get spouses, but then you get this younger age where like. You, you sleep around a bit and you get to play at what it's like to be in a relationship, but you still basically get an arranged marriage. Like that is a softer range marriages. I think are what we still had in the U S you know, up until like the forties and the, and then it began to become like, okay, you actually test out a bunch of potential relationships and then you choose when you think you have found one that.could be a marriage. Now, what's interesting is people don't do that. They're not like, no, I'm going to wait until I find the perfect one, right? Which is a very different thing, but that's not even what they really do. They sort of now what I've noticed, I think that this is actually the way things work in secular society, even if secular society wouldn't say this is you play musical chairs.You, you date random people and you have sex with random people. And so one day you realize, holy s**t. I need to, like, the music has turned off, I'm on the chair I'm sitting on.[00:10:00] And that's actually how I think things are structured right now.Louise Perry: A friend of mine has, agrees with that, with that analogy.She actually, funnily enough, she this couple that we're friends with, they actually met when they were teenagers, so unusual. Yeah, and now they're in their with, with, um, with a baby. But the, the, her line, which always makes me laugh is like, not only is it like playing musical chairs and therefore, you know, losing options with every, every round, but also that those options are selected for badness, right?Like there's a reason those chairs are still there and it's normal kind of dysfunction. So I, the worst possible advice that You hear so often and it's so horrendous is that you should hold off on choosing a spouse until a certain age point. Yes! Yes! You should not choose a spouse, for instance, until you're in your thirties and there's something suspect about any relationship that starts.Before then, like the university boyfriend must be dumped, for instance, you should dump the university boyfriend, you should, you should [00:11:00] try a few other musical chairs, and then you can actually start seriously thinking about setting down your thirties. And even aside from the biological clock problem, which is a very serious one.Like, no, anyone who's, anyone who's in the same boat as you in their thirties and, and, and for some reason unmarried, unless they've been like widowed, there might be a good reason why they're not married. Like there might be some kind of whatever, like aversion to commitment, like a whole host of. A whole host of reasons why people would have selected themselves into that category.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so one thing I would advise, so this is for our younger listeners because it's advice I would give my kids, is the one place I think secular society does give good advice on this is you probably shouldn't marry someone you're dating in high school or middle school. And the reason I say high school, you know, because this is where this is most likely to happen, Is because these are the first times you're feeling these emotions and you don't understand that, you know, this is just a random person who you happen to have met.And you are unlikely to, because you just haven't been exposed to that many people in high school to really have [00:12:00] found that optimize a person. I think college is when you really should, like you should aim 70 percent to find who you're going to marry in the years if you don't go to college in the years you would have been in college.Don'tLouise Perry: get your BA, get your MRS.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you couldn't, do you remember Princeton mom, mom, she was this woman who was this was a few years ago now who, who's. Children, one child maybe was at Princeton and she had been to Princeton herself and she wrote a sort of letters as young to female students in the college magazine.Oh, I remember. And it was so controversial, but she was completely right. She said. You know, listen, listen, ladies, like you are never going to be surrounded by this many eligible young men ever again in your life who are, who are single, who are selected for their intellect, conscientious, all these good things.And like, you have nothing to like, come on, like university students are so idle. You have basically nothing to do. You should, you should be [00:13:00] trying to find a spouse. That should be your goal. And it was incredibly controversial. And theMalcolm Collins: good ones do get snatched up. I don't think that's the thing, you know, there's these.the, in a way we're always sort of like we get annoyed by progressive culture, but we're always like, it always ends up punishing the progressives the most, you know, the ones who are susceptible to these ideas. They're the ones who are lapping up guys. The, the young aggressive conservative women are the ones leaving the college with all the most emotionally stable, caring guys.And that's why. When women are like, Oh, there's no good men anymore. It's like, yeah, cause you missed them. You had your chance. Yeah.Louise Perry: I mean, I, I make fun of progressives. Right. Because obviously it's, it's fun to do so, but I'm saying this as someone who, who used to be a progressive. Right. And I basically just got lucky in, in getting, in finding my spouse when I did.It wasn't through like, especially good judgment. It was just pure luck. And actually, you know, like for all that we, for all that we make fun of them rightly, and I'm not talking about the really crazy blue haired kind of end of the spectrum, I'm just talking about sort of normal, [00:14:00] middle class, progressive, you know, they're actually great people generally, right?They're generally like hardworking. conscientious, like talented, intelligent, economically productive, all this kind of stuff. Like, I actually really, really desperately want the best for these people. And the culture, the progressive culture, actually, as you say, it hurts progressives most. It actually channels people towards making decisions which are really bad for them long term and, and mean that they don't reproduce themselves as well.Yeah, ISimone Collins: heard recently about one governor. I don't, I haven't looked this up properly, so it may not be true, but the governor of Utah actually hosting a lot of events in the governor's mansion. But not necessarily just for matchmaking, like he's hosted events where he's just having like everyone who's into fly fishing, you know, come over for a party at the governor's mansion, everyone who's, you know, a married couple over, you know, 60 years old, like come and it, the, the goal I think was just to start connecting people more.Because even in a place like Utah, which is insane, I mean, it's, you know, dominated by the LDS community. [00:15:00] There are tons of institutions where people are meeting, at least as long as they're Mormon, a lot of people. But even there, he feels like there's a need for people to foster more connection that it's even really hard to make friends anywhere.I mean, this isn't just a dating problem. This is a friendship problem. Rates of friendship are down. People report having fewer numbers of friends. I'm wondering if you think this is something where the government is right to get involved or wrong to get involved? Like if governments and some governments and other nations have started organizing matchmaking events for youth matchmaking retreats for youth, would that be scary or dystopian to you?Or would it be cool and encouraging?Louise Perry: Doesn't the government basically do that with higher education? I mean, going back to the meeting in college,Simone Collins: really, because there's a lot of disincentivizing people. Yeah. It couldLouise Perry: do so through higher education.Simone Collins: When we've heard many people with regard to demographical apps saying like, well, you know, a really awesome thing a government could do is for any government sponsored or supported university you could give women entirely free tuition or room and board, some kind of incentive [00:16:00] that not every student gets so long as they promise to graduate, perhaps in a longer period, like they have more years to do it.with a child and then they have a child while they're at university. They meet their spouse at university. And I mean, I think it really would create a big incentive. So do you think something like that would be a good thing or do you think it would be too on the coerciveLouise Perry: side? Well, look, I sort of think that that, that ship has already sailed in terms of the amount that the government interferes in our lives in all sorts of ways.Right. I mean, the first thing on my list would be to stop. I mean the UK government, although this is of course true elsewhere, from doing like explicitly anti natalist things. I mean like the way that our tax system works in this country is insane. For instance, you stay at families with a stay at home parent, typically mother, pay a tax penalty, for instance, in this country, right?There are all sorts of things, which is. like radically anti and right, radically anti traditional family. So if we've already accepted, for instance, that the government is in the business of educating everyone, if the government is in the [00:17:00] business of providing socialized health care and things like that, then you might as well pull levers to try and encourage people to make decisions, which are in the interest of the country long term.Because of course, that's what we're talking about, right? These are, these are, these are questions of national importance. I like that idea of another idea I've heard is to give free tuition to mothers. So, because one of the things that would be useful is to, is to, I mean, women live longer than men, right?And women also, everyone lives a long time in Western. and societies. Why is it that we have to, we have to encourage women in, say, their mid twenties, the peak fertility period to be investing in their careers when they could just delay that section of their lives by five to 10 years and then work an extra five to 10 years at the end?You know, if we, if we could, the problem is that the current career. The current career plan is designed for a male life cycle. It's not designed for the main,Simone Collins: unless you start right at university. Like if you get married freshman [00:18:00] year, have a kid, like you could have two kids before you graduate.If you take fourLouise Perry: years to graduate and then you can, and then if you stay at home with them as preschoolers, you're still entering the labor market in your mid to late twenties with aSimone Collins: fresh degree.Cause then the bigger problem too, is that women get their degree, they work a little bit. And then they take this huge gap from working and then, you know, the degree is no longer fresh and their job isn't fresh. Like, if you can somehow get everything like you, you sort of finish most of your time off the market as a parent.Bef like right as yourMalcolm Collins: degree. True. That's only two kids, you know? Yeah. Kids that you don't take yourself off the market because you're a parent. That's turn down. Or if you do, you, you have a real structure for that.A really interesting give extreme pro natalist policy, a, a young college aged girl we know proposed for Korea, you know, given how absolutely severe their cases right now. Is to make it so that as a woman, you cannot graduate Korean college until after you have had your first kid[00:19:00] and you see, you can start college before that, but you don't get your degree until you have a kid.And given how important college degrees are within the Korean status hierarchy.This would immediately and dramatically affect the number of kids people were having. Of course it is a little coercive for my taste, but it wouldn't be effective.Malcolm Collins: But I think a really key problem that we keep having here and this was shocking to me when we were in the uk.We're meeting with a lot of conservative, you know, leading intellectuals, policymakers, stuff like that, but a lot of them young women. And I repeatedly kept seeing them making the same mistake over and over again in regards to their relationships, which is they had found people they wanted to marry. And they're like, yeah, but of course we need to be dating for like three years before we can get married.And I was like, what the are you talking about? If you found someone who is good for you to marry, you need to aggressively vet them and marry them. Wasn't like Three months or six months. AndLouise Perry: don't [00:20:00] get a dog. Don't get a dog as a practice baby. Because one, dogs are bad practice babies. Two, it'll encourage you to delay having your first child.And three, dogs are really annoying when you have a baby.Malcolm Collins: Worse than practice babies. They are not meant to teach women how to have babies. They're meant to masturbate the instinct that women feel toLouise Perry: have a baby. Yes. Yeah. They're a displacement tool. Yeah, the number of like, yeah, the number of yuppie couples in our sort of extended social network who are like, okay, so we meet at X and then we, and then we live together after, after Y, and then we get a dog after Z, and then it's like, 10 years down the track that you have a baby.Malcolm Collins: Well, I think the way to do this is to frame having a dog without having a child is perverse. And, and I do that when I, I mean, I see that as like walking around with pornography in your hand. It's like, it's the same thing. You are using it to, to masturbate an instinct that evolved to get you to do what you were supposed to be doing, which is having a [00:21:00] loving family.And instead. You subvert that instinct and it may feel good in the moment when you're playing with the big, cute little puppy. But in the longterm it's causing you and your spouse is significant emotional distress. Well, here's, here'sSimone Collins: the thing that I'm kind of thinking about while I'm listening to this conversation though, I am feeling like teen pregnancy.Is the most feminist option for an intergenerational, a durable culture. Cause hear me out, right? Like if you weren't to start in college, but instead in high school, then you have the support of your parents for the first baby, which honestly, like in a modern society in which, you know, we're more atomized and everything.You know, we, we cannot expect as adults to have our parents move in with us to, you know, always be living in the same place because they may notLouise Perry: be a little older as well. I'mMalcolm Collins: going to push back very strong on this, Simone. You don't want to be a teen dad. No, I don't think that women can appropriately find good long term partners in their teen years because you do not know where the guy is going to turn out in terms of [00:22:00] competence.I think a guy who like has his s**t together in college is somebody who's going to have their s**t together. Okay, so yeah,Simone Collins: we're talking. Statutory rape, teen marriage. That's what we're looking for where you have, you know, a very good, you know, successful college grad, male college grad, you have, you know, 16 year old girl.Okay.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I suppose I am okay with teen marriage if they're dating college guys. And that sounds soSimone Collins: wrong, but it would be so like, cause then, you know, the girl could have. three or four or even five children from high school through the end of college, get a great education, have an amazing family support network, have all the flexibility to both learn, develop really good skills and have help with children at the same time.And then by the time she really needs to like lean into her career and like just kill it in the workforce, she's good. And then also when she's old, she'sMalcolm Collins: doesn't, you know, we got to be clear. This is mostly meant jocularly as a joke. In our society right now, because, While you could conceivably create a society that worked around the system she's talking about, [00:23:00] that is not the society that we actually live in.And anyone who attempted this would be very likely to end up a single mother. Which is why it would be really stupid. I mean, this also comes down to my general advice of not trying to find a partner in high school. Because I know a lot of guys who seemed like they had their lives together in high school, but actually didn't have their lives together.And a lot of guys who didn't look like they had their lives together in high school, who actually did. I mean, it's actually like the nerdy, like, rocket, uh, hobbyist kid, who is the kid who made a lot of money in the... And the jock captain, the football team, who's more likely to fall off. But by the time you get to, I'd say like junior year of college, you can broadly tell who's going to have their life together as an adult and who can't.And that's why that's a good age to begin to, and not begin to, to begin to finalize. who you're going to marry. Not, not to start practice dating. High school is for practice dating. College is not practice anymore. ButSimone Collins: another concern I have about starting a parental career first, like if I'm [00:24:00] thinking about this from the perspective of mother is I wouldn't want one of my children.Or both like male or female to like start as a parent and be really into it and then be like, no, I don't want to do anything else because I want our children to also grow up and have impact on larger society. And I feel like they have a moral obligation to do that. If they have the skill and connections and ability to do it, like they should be making society better.Louise Perry: Also, we live a long time, right? Like, you know, there, there is a, I suppose one way you can do it is if you have so many kids, you know, if you have an incredibly long, I don't know if you know the the TV chef, Gordon Ramsey, British, British celebrity, right. His wife just had her sixth child age 49 and she had her first, right.And she had her. first child when she was 24. So she's had this incredibly long reproductive career. I know I like amazing, right? It's a really interesting fact, actually, how many celebrities who didn't go to university who come from working class families ends up having loads of kids, [00:25:00] I'm sure, you know, that there's.In the quadrant of like, you know, X axis is education and Y axis is, is, is income. It's the high education, low income people who have the fewest kids. And it's the high income, low education people who have the most. And you see there's like premiership footballers who have loads of kids. Anyway, it's, it's, it's, it's a lovely site.So, you know, so one scenario I guess is that you have so many kids over such a long, you know, not necessarily tight pack, you know, three or four year age gaps, which is the standard for hunter gatherers, right? So that's quite a healthy, like physiologically, that's quite a healthy age gap. You have lots of kids with, with, with moderate age gaps and then by the time your youngest is growing up, you have grandchildren.So then you do basically spend your entire life just looking after your children. That is one scenario. But many women are going to have two or three in our ideals. And that's completely, that's, that's great. And that doesn't actually take up that much of your life, therefore. So to have, to say, you know, for this, you don't want this scenario, I think, where women, [00:26:00] women are excluded from the workforce between the age of, say, 40 and 60.For no good reason.Simone Collins: Yeah. No, that's 100%. Correct. We, we're so obsessed with having like four or five, six, because when you look at societal trends and the number of people who choose not to have any children at all, or even just one, like, so, you know, we have to make up for it somewhere. Plus there's one really interesting thing.Bit of research that people did at one point looking at, I think people, Malcolm, was it in Norway or was it Sweden? But looking at intergenerationally, I saw that as well. Yeah. So like, you know, having just two kids is very, your odds of having a great grandchild are so low. So we think about it from that perspective too.Malcolm Collins: So another thing to note, because you know, this is something that keeps getting said on this, this podcast, which is make sure women can, can work and participate in the workforce. And I think a lot of people, they may hear this and they might say that's anti conservative, that's anti traditional. There was a great the, the most recent Nobel prize winner, I want to say in economics actually did a piece on this and I'm gonna [00:27:00] put the graph on the screen here.Which Shows that actually no women used to participate in the workforce at around the rate they do today. There was just a historical period where it went down for frankly, in a historical context, a fairly short period, which was really at its height in like the 1950s. But if you go earlier than like the 1920s, and then especially if you go into the early 1800s, female participation in the workforce was almost as high as male.But it was oftenSimone Collins: from homeLouise Perry: and that's the key thing. Yeah. So it's more about having sex. specific jobs, which most societies do end up basically, I mean, we do, frankly, it's just not explicit but having the type of job, which is easily combinable with having children is, is, is the way of threading that needle.The problem is that the influx of women post second wave, the influx of middle class women into traditionally male dominated jobs has not produced, you know, like the plight of [00:28:00] the female doctor, for instance, I was, I was, I was I saw a friend yesterday who's a doctor who has a baby and it's basically impossible for her at this stage to combine being a doctor.There is, there are points later on where you could, but she had a baby, you know, like too young, right? Late twenties, not very young, but within like, basically the other way that NHS medical training works is it depends on abortion. It depends on like you and contraception. It depends on women delaying having Children until they're at least in their thirties.Because if you have a child any earlier than that, it will be almost impossible for you to progress in your career. You just have to Take an enormous break or drop out entirely, which a lot of women do. So like, that's an example of a career, which is now majority female in terms of medical student graduates that is completely incompatible with childbearing.So you end up with all these, all these, all these accomplished women shredding their fertility for the sake of a medical career. Or their careers,Simone Collins: which is just as bad. I mean, depending on what you [00:29:00] care about, like it's, it's terrible that women are with this kind of potential are just saying, well, I guess society is not going to get my help, you know, as a medical NHS really needs really good doctors.And I think what's so fun about this too, is that this is super tractable. Like if the right number of. You know, people high in the NHS in the way it's, it's operations run, we're to decide we're going to fix this. This is, you know, a policy change we're going to make, or, you know, we're going to accommodate childcare in this way or whatever, like they can fix this problem.And this is a really similar thing with, female lawyers, mothers lawyers who are mothers in the United States. There are, I think that there's a certain number of minimum hours that mothers, that lawyers, sorry, have to work in order to qualify and like maintain all their licensing. So effectively female lawyers in many States can't work part time.And also maintain their ability to practice law. And this is stuff I never even heard about before we started talking with people about prenatalism. So there are so many really dumb things that we do to even just penalize parenthood [00:30:00] when, you know, yeah, there's enough,Louise Perry: youMalcolm Collins: can, you can look at this and see how solvable a lot of prenatalist issues are and, and, and why we need to be working on this front at the policy level.You know, when you say, how can you with the skills of a doctor make money and contribute to society while being a mother? Well, I mean, historically, you, you could probably do that in the old model of doctor, which is to be a home care doctor, you know, to travel house to house to do, and it would probably be much cheaper to operate than our existing systems, but you have some big bureaucracy like the N.I. NHS and they're not going to be able to do that. You look at medical regulation in the US and people are going to push back on that. Did you look at the lawyer thing that you were talking about? If you actually let them operate within a sane structure now, and this is one of the policies that I am most pro as a pro natalist policy for, for sane family structures that I have not seen.Any politician push yet is one where if a company is going to demand that an individual works from the office, that they have to prove that they are getting [00:31:00] incrementally more productivity from that demand. I do not think that blanketly companies should be allowed to demand that people work from the office.I think that it's a demand that can only be made with evidence similar to like if I was bringing over an immigrant and this is going to freak out a lot of these I'd say fragile CEOs. But as people who are CEOs who have worked with people working at home and in the office whatever you see, and we've written about this in our book on governance and running companies, and we've lectured about this, like Stanford and stuff like this.Every time I've seen a CEO of a large company saying, Oh, it's just not working. We have to bring people back to the office. I've never once seen them provide evidence whenever somebody says, Oh, we're going to let people work from home or we're going to extend our work from home program. That's always accompanied by evidence.Why is that? Why is it that no one seems to be able to show actual evidence?Simone Collins: Well, and there are a couple of reasons why, right? I mean like a lot of people implement the back to the office policies because they want to lay people off and that's a really easy way to do it. And the other really bad reason [00:32:00] that exists out there though, which we've seen, we can totally vouch for this is, is a form of office theater where basically a lot of people like Malcolm says, have really delicate egos and they need their peons around them scurrying through the offices to make them feel important.And it's just this like traditional vision of like,Malcolm Collins: it's not real. I want to elaborate on what something you said there because I don't know if our audience would immediately understand what you meant. When she says they want to lay them off in a lot of developed countries right now, if you just lay somebody off randomly as a company, you have to pay some sort of financial penalty for that.But if you told them to come to an office and then you said, oh, look, they couldn't make it to the office. After you had them like move all over the country because they could work wherever they want. Well, then you don't need to pay that penalty. And so it can be used as sort of a trap. Which of course, legally, I don't think is something we should be allowing because you shouldn't be able to demand people come back to the office.And if that was the case, then people couldn't pull these shenanigans. No, weSimone Collins: also, I mean, we're very much in the you should be able to fire someone at will kind of mindset. Yeah.Louise Perry: I mean, also, even if [00:33:00] that costs. So we agree that remote working is pronatal, right? But like, even if there are costs to say productivity for remote workers or like the example, example that my friend gave yesterday is that one of the challenges of her stage of medical training is that she gets a lot, she gets, she gets given a rota, which changes week to week and she has no choice about that.So she's, she's told, you know, you'll be doing, you'll be doing an early shift this week and then next week. should we like that? It's basically completely impossible to arrange formal childcare around that kind of rota. Either you have. So basically, you either just drop out entirely or you have a partner whose whose job is incredibly flexible or you have, say, a grandparent who can provide who's around the corner and can provide full time, including overnight childcare.Like this is very, very demanding expectation. Like another example of the NHS being stupidly Another doctor friend, I know lots of doctors because I used to go like I was, I'm a medical school dropout. Yeah. Then for the grace of God when she had a baby at [00:34:00] medical school as a single mother, unplanned, but you know, peak, peak fertility, and she wanted to be given a job out of Out of university near her mother so that her mother could help with overnight childcare smart, right?And it was like pulling teeth trying to get the NHS to give her this job because they had it they could understand if you Had a spouse who was living somewhere They could understand if you had a child in school that there were certain things but not a child to your resource But not but not a grandparent that didn't Count as a sort of like an important locus that you would need to be based around, right?All of these kind of examples, it probably is the case that if say you had, let's say you have a parent friendly rota is what is like an option you can choose if you have a child of a certain age. And let's say you had special provision that you could choose. You had more choice of where you allocated your first job if you had a child, things like that.It like it would come with costs, you know, there would be like, I think it's, I don't think that we should pretend like they wouldn't be downside for the employer [00:35:00] from providing that kind of provision. But what we're talking about here is like the survival of our civilization, right? You can't be kind of to like the birth rates thing is so important.And people don't yet realize how important it is that we should be accommodating those kinds of trade offs very, very comfortably. And the State should be demanding that employers just, just, just eat those trade offs because like we're talking like some decades down the line where everything starts to go to pieces if we don't.Well, and also,Simone Collins: At least traditionally there was this perception that male fathers were better hires, right? Because they needed the stability. They would be loyal to the company. You could count on them because they had a family to support. And I, I really. resent. This is not the same for female mothers who accommodate because it, when you get a mother working for you, who's really talented and who you accommodate, she, one is amazing [00:36:00] talent and it's really hard to retain talent these days.And if you give her All the flexibility she needs to, you know, do her job, which she probably loves if she's really good at it. And take care of her kids. She'll stay with you and she'll often go above and beyond. And we see this with our, our we, we have a company that we run. It's mostly female.There are lots of new mothers. There's, there's a pregnant mother aside from me. Like we're extremely accommodating. We're like, just whatever, take whatever time you want, work remotely, like work with your kids. We really don't care. And Everyone who is a mother is so hard. Are there like among our.Yeah, everyone actually, every one of our top players isMalcolm Collins: a mother. In a previous episode, we had talked about, cause we've read these cases of like women who hypothetically try to create all women companies. And they always end up like with everyone tearing each other down and like fighting. And like our company is almost all women and everyone in there who's not a woman is a gay man, except for me.Like our company disproportionately hires gay people and, and, and women. And It has no, [00:37:00] no drama at all anymore. And it's, it's really like a healthy place to work. And I suspect the difference is, is that other company was hiring women who didn't have kids. And our company specifically often hires mothers.Simone Collins: Well, maybe this also comes down to the difference between the maiden and the mother and the matriarch the yeah The mother is in a very different cooperative sort of phase in life Where is like the maidens are far more likely to be competitive to be, you know, trying to show something And maybe there's something about that like leaning into that the different life phases that womenMalcolm Collins: have, I think you're absolutely right because a maid is, is competing for a mate, right?So there is a reason to undermine other women in, in sort of status hierarchies and in competition. Whereas the mother has almost no reason to undermine other women because what they would be optimizing for is cooperation and child rearing. And, and the status just doesn't matter as much because they already have secured their mate,Simone Collins: safety and cooperation and all that.And that leads to great employees.Louise Perry: The other thing that I'd add, this might [00:38:00] not apply as much in the workplace, but definitely in terms of politics, I would say that frustrated maternal impulse is a very politically potent and potentially dangerous force. Yeah. And I think that like, say, I dunno, attitudes towards refugees in the UK, this might not be as, as acute in the U S I don't know.But I, I. Or any number of political causes, this is just one example, I, I think that the reason you see disproportionate numbers of young women who don't have children drawn to these kind of high, like, highly charged, empathetic situations where you are like trying to save groups of people, right, who may well be adult men.But I, I honestly think that a big part of that is, it's, it's like, it's like with getting the dogs, you know, it's this, it's this tug towards mothering. Something is really goodMalcolm Collins: heart take. Yeah, I, I [00:39:00] like that take a little blurb at the beginning of the video here. This has been a wonderful conversation. I really enjoyed it.If people want more conversations from us, one thing they can also check out is not just other. Our other podcast episode with you, but Simone has done an episode of your show. So that's a good check out made by the matriarch. And hopefully I'll do an episode of the near future. And yeah, it has been a joy to have you here.So please do go check out her podcast. And if you want more in it there is one already out there with Simone. ThankSimone Collins: you so much for joining us. This was amazing.Louise Perry: It was such a pleasure. Thank you. Awesome.Simone Collins: Okay. And then are you working on another book? Like what's next? What can we, you know, when, when will we have you back on?Cause you have something new toLouise Perry: promote. So I'm, I'm, well, I'm writing the case for having kids. So that's my next book. Get full access to Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm at basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Exploring the decline of masculinity due to liberalism and environmental pollution, and its biological and social impacts. Discussing the effects of hormonal contraceptives on women's brain shrinkage and the need for further research. Addressing misconceptions about testosterone and aggression, emphasizing the importance of improving hormonal health and adopting pollution-mitigating lifestyles.

In this video, we analyze the ideology behind the TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist) movement. We discuss how TERFs emerged from an earlier generation of feminists who believed that gender differences were entirely socially constructed and conditioned. This "gender critical" ideology views gender as an oppressive social construct that should be abolished.We explain why TERFs see transgender identities as offensive and threatening to their worldview. We also analyze the perspectives of lesbian TERFs. Overall, we argue that while TERFs are logically consistent within their own belief system, their ideology is contrary to scientific evidence on innate gender differences.The TERF movement may represent the last gasp of an earlier form of feminism that did not adapt to new evidence. While influential for now in some circles, their ideology will likely not outlive the generation that spawned it.Simone: [00:00:00] We'll just say curmudgeonly resistance to change.Malcolm: Exactly. And who would be more curmudgeonly and resistant to change than 1970s feminists? These women were not known for their logic, everybody always knew that this early iteration of the feminist movement was like, f*****g bonkers, and completely dislocated from reality..You went out with a white male? I was a freshman. Fresh person. Please. Please. He's coming over here. Sisters, form a wall! No,Malcolm: their entire ideology to begin with was stupid and reactionary. And, and, honestly, I think to a large extent used for them to gain access to sexual partners.You know, they used to do this political lesbian thing to pressure straight women to sleep with them, and now they're getting the, well, not liking girl dick makes you a bigotso let's talk about what political lesbianism is. If you don't believe gender is a thing, then sexual orientation isn't a thing either.And so if men are the problem in society, then you can just choose to be gay. [00:01:00] And this is a very convenient ideology for a lot of women, who want to believe any woman they have a crush on is a valid target for them to try as hard as they want on.Would you like to know more?Simone: all right. So we were in the UK recently, and we were reminded while being there and talking to people about various political movements and conservative movements there, just how big like the turf movement in general is there, which we're not saying it's big, but it is influential, like a very small number of women.Who identify as TERFs have had an outsized level of influence. One could argue.Malcolm: I go further than that. I'd say if you talk among conservative circles in the UK there is a general belief among the political class that the aspect of the conservative movement that is having the most. cultural victory, you know, moving the Overton window the most is the turf portion of the movement in the U.S. I think we think of turfs as being this rare small group that that is just like weirdo extremists in the U. K. They are a core aspect, [00:02:00] if not the current most successful aspect of the conservative political ideology of the country. Yeah. So, this brings us to a question. Who are TERFs? What do we think of TERFs?And yeah, we'll, we'll just go into it because it's something I spend a lot of time on. So people might know this. We have a holiday called Lemon Day in our family where we have to engage with an ideology that offends us. And I spent a lot of time because I've always found TERFism to be fairly offensive and that might surprise people.So I'll explain why really deeply in their communities, which are called gender critical communities from their perspective.One of the core mistakes people make when they think about who the TERFs are, what they are, what they want, is they think that this is predominantly, and I even noticed this was in the UK to an extent, is they didn't seem to understand when they were talking about TERFs, the full ideology, that This was just an anti trans movement, and it is not.It's not a trans skeptical movement, it's not an anti trans movement, it is so much more than that. It is [00:03:00] a complete world perspective on what it is to be human, what humans are, why humans are that way. It is a logically, internally consistent perspective, but it is a perspective that... Is incongruent with measurable evidence is the way I would put it which to me is interesting because it is such a logically internally consistent perspective that is also so insane.So let's talk about it. And why people ended up holding it, because I think this is very interesting as well. First, I'll quickly describe what TERFs and the gender critical movement actually believe. So they believe that there is no difference between men and women. That's what they mean when they say gender critical.They are critical of the very concept of gender. They think that men and women are different because we have been socialized differently. That is the core cause of male and female differences in the world.[00:04:00] And that And this is why they're so antagonistic to trans individuals, because they see their goal, right, is to get society to accept that all of the differences between men and women are actually created by society itself.And that if we could just accept that gender is completely irrelevant, and nothing is gender. No traits are gendered, the female strength isn't gendered, nothing is gendered. Some will accept that like females have smaller bodies on average, but not all of them do. It's actually pretty interesting how like de lulu this movement is.Wow. But, but mostly the mainstream position of the movement is just psychologically there is absolutely no difference between males and females. Hmm. If we can... Break society's gender concepts, then we can enter a world in which there is genuine equality between what we now call genders. So from their perspective, if they're taking this view, there are two reasons they have, like, [00:05:00] the trans community is their mortal enemy.Problem number one is trans community is coming in and saying, actually men and women definitely are two different things. So much so that you can be born the wrong one. Like you couldn't be born the wrong one if they weren't different things. Right. So they are. And, and, and then on top of that, when the trans community from the perspective of the gender critical movement defines what men and women are in their mind.And you can see this in like, Dylan Milvaney's, like, 100 Days of the Woman or something. You, like, watch the early ones, and they're very much like, I've just been crying all day! And, like, they are very much actually negative stereotypes, or what the gender critical movement would consider negative stereotypes about women.Right. Right? You know, like emotional instability and stuff like that.Day one of being a girl, and I have already cried three times. I wrote a scathing email that I did not send. I ordered dresses online that I couldn't afford. And then, uh, when someone asked me how I [00:06:00] was, I said, I'm fine, when I wasn't fine. Day 3 of being a girl and I've already become a bimbo with the queen herself. We are drinking martinis at 255 on a Monday on Sunset Boulevard and then we're going makeup shopping. We love it! Cheers! Chrissy?Yeah. The bimbos are bimbo y. It's 100%. We need it. We shopped. It's been an amazing day as a bimbo. I think it's a good fit for me. What do you think ladies? Love you day four of being a girl and I am exhausted The hair, the makeup, the clothes, the high heels, it's a lot to keep up with,If you have trouble understanding why this would be so offensive to somebody who didn't believe that there were any actual differences at all, between genders and all differences were the result of stereotypes. This would be like, if a person decided they were transracial, [00:07:00] but then on top of that, they just went around, acting out black stereotypes, like speaking in broken English and was like a watermelon in one hand and fried chicken.In the other hand, I want to thank you for teaching me about my roots. Before I came here, I thought Indian culture had to do with ethnic pride, respect for nature, and fighting for the return of rightful lands.But I now know that being an Indian is about scalping, drinking, and gambling.Malcolm: And that is fascinating. That is fascinating. So, obviously they're angry there. The second reason they're angry is, if there really aren't differences between men and women, in any way at a psychological level, then the core difference in women as like an oppressed class in our society is that they grew up feeling that oppression and exclusion.anD through that, and TERFs mostly care about trans people, trans women, they mostly care about trans women, we'll get into this in a second, like why they mostly feel like, well, then you are just [00:08:00] identifying as a Thank you. Minority community, basically, from their perspective, because they have a view that is actually very common among progressive groups, if there actually is no difference between any ethnic group, if there actually is no difference between males and females, well then for the same reason it is twisted to pretend you are a different ethnicity than you were born, it would be twisted to pretend you are a different gender than you were born.Yeah, that makes sense. So they see it as equally offensive to that. Now there's the final thing that really motivates a lot of TERFs. aNd the final thing is, and, and, and imagine you have this perspective and then something like something who you see as a man is women winning like woman of the year.Right? You'd be like, wow, they have taken everything from us. Yeah. You know, because they don't believe that trans individuals are really the gender that they claim to be. And then the, the, the, the final thing that really motivates a lot of TERFs is the TERF lesbian movement. There's a lot of lesbian TERFs.So, a lot of TERFs were political lesbians. To begin with or [00:09:00] I think some of them use political lesbianism to pressure straight women into sleeping with them. You could actually say, so let's talk about what political lesbianism is. If you don't believe gender is a thing, then sexual orientation isn't a thing either.And so if men are the problem in society, then you can just choose to be gay. And this is a very convenient ideology for a lot of people who want to believe that any, a lot of women, who want to believe any woman they have a crush on is a valid target for them to try as hard as they want on. But I think that a lot of these people are actually, like, genuinely just...Lesbians. And when people began to enter their communities that were causing these disgust reactions, that's what we've, we've just caused in our stuff on sexuality, our perception of sexuality, and I believe this very strongly, is that sexuality exists on a spectrum from arousal to disgust. It does not stop at zero.It's not zero arousal to a hundred arousal, it's a hundred arousal to negative a hundred arousal. And as we point out, like what, what happens when you're aroused? Your eyes dilate, you look at [00:10:00] somebody more, you breathe in more, you want to be in the same room as them, disgust, eyes contract, you look away, you hold your nose, you want to get away from the person, they appear to be exactly the same system.Yeah. So I expect that these are women who are having, and a lot of men feel this way where, where more men than women where they will feel an active disgust reaction to either males or females, depending on their gender of predominant attraction which isn't seen as much in women, but it is seen partially in women.So these women are having this disgust reaction to individuals because they're not they, they one, don't conceptualize those individuals as the gender they're claiming to be. And, and, and maybe at like a biological level, they're not recognizing them at the gender that they're claiming to be. So these are the various beefs that the TERF community has with the trans community.Hm. And I get it if you have their perspective. So let's talk about why their perspective can feel reasonable from a second. Like, like how they actually got these insane ideas. Yeah. So this actually comes from mainstream progressive ideology. One of the things about progressive ideology that changes very [00:11:00] frequently.If you are out there campaigning for whatever you think. Transmedicalists think it's progressive ideology today, in the future people will say you are a horrible bigot, they will throw you under the bus, and they will beat you at protests, if you hold these ideas. Now of course you're supposed to update your ideas, if they update their ideas.You know, as we point out, I believe we're just talking about transness, like transmedicalists used to be like the main kind of trans, that was the official trans. But before that it was terse. And transmedicalists, by the way, are the ones who believe that you need gender dysphoria to be trans instead of just saying that you're trans.To be trans, or feeling, without gender dysphoria, being trans. Anyway, so, if you go back to the terfs, if you look at Skinnerism, so we're talking like 1920s psychology they actually believed in, like, the tabula rasa, in humans. They believed that all humans were a blank slate. Yeah, youSimone: could condition a human to be into anything, to want anything, to do anything.A hundredMalcolm: percent based on how they're raised. Mm hmm. A hundred percent based on their experiences. And this was mainstream psychology out of the top universities for a period of like 15 years? And it [00:12:00] was mainstream psychology during a period where the current progressive ideology was developing itself, or communist ideology or whatever you want to call it, that all differences between all groups, men, women different cultures, et cetera, are primarily caused by discrimination and oppression and that they are, there, there's nothing that's actually different about anyone.And so they're just holding to this ideology that they were taught was correct in college. They are, in many ways, like, the morally upstanding iteration. It's the slimy ones who changed their belief over time. Or you could say the ones who accepted new evidence. It depends on how you say it, but I, I, I, I do have a level of respect for them.Because of logic,Simone: logical consistency, at least. I mean, I'll, I'll admittedly based on a bad foundation, but,Malcolm: Yeah. So they're, at least they're logically consistent and they're willing to fight for an ideology that gets them tarred and feathered by society. And I always have some level of respect, no matter how much I disagree with someone [00:13:00] about that.Yeah. Now let's talk about why we think TERFs are so catastrophically stupid. HereSimone: we go.Malcolm: Well, this perspective is just wrong. There are differences between men and women. No. Like it's, it's, Obvious. I think it's obvious to any sane thinking person. You need to, to an extent, like, actually be in a cult to not see that men and women are different.Yeah,Simone: I mean, well, I mean, yeah, size behavior, brain scans, it's kind of hard to find a realm in which there are not, on average, Differences between men and women. And of course there are some men who are more womanly than some women and vice versa, butMalcolm: on average, and they will argue, well, all these differences, even the brain differences are caused by socialization, like wouldn't socialization cause different brain structures.And then you can read these terribly sad stories that you've told me about where like people will try to raise their kids as gender neutral. And the kids will be like, but I want to play with a [00:14:00] doll and they end up getting punished with their parents or their, I want to, I want to do this gendered parentsSimone: catch them cradling their truck and trying to comfort it.Malcolm: Yeah, this was a little girl who this happened to. Is that not the saddest thing? Like trying to twist human nature to fit a political agenda.Simone: Yeah. I mean, you know, the thing is though, like. I think we admit that there is nuance here and that like, there are some girls who don't want to play with dolls and you shouldn't try to force anyone to any particular thing because there is variation between people, between and among people.But again, on average, you know, to deny the fact that there are differences is pretty insane. And yeah, try to force people into some kind of sameness is, is not going to helpMalcolm: stuff.Well, they just keep trying. There's been a number of instances, and I'm gonnasee if I can find a picture of this, where they have tried to raise kids as gender neutrally as possible. And it just doesn't work. Now, to give them credit, To give them credit, when I say work, it [00:15:00] messes the kids up. Like, a lot.Like, it causes major psychological issues. Which, in a way does defend the trans idea that we are, to an extent, born with a gender, and that if you try to raise the person as the wrong gender, that's gonna cause problems. But I will give them credit and say that, like, you can look at studies, and even at five months, people do treat...If it's differently based on their gender. Yeah. You know, like people will be much more likely to call girl inference, like, prettySimone: compliment to call boy infants strong, etMalcolm: cetera. Yeah. And so does this affect them? No, f*****g obviously it doesn't affect them.They are infants, they don't understand what you're saying. And anyone who has been a parent can tell you that infants show their gender by like, really strongly within like the first few months. It's really, really obvious. But anyway, sorry, I, I, it's always like, oh, here's some kernel of thing where they have a point.But like, are you [00:16:00] f*****g kidding me? Like, obviously men and women are different. Obviously! This is a dumb hill to die on, and it's a dumb ideology to die with. Now So thenSimone: why do you think TERFs have, at least a small group of TERFs, have managed to gain so much outsized influence in the United Kingdom specifically?What happenedMalcolm: there? Yeah. So, conservative ideology in the United Kingdom is not like conservative ideology in the US. In the United States, conservative ideology, like when I talk to conservatives, I'm like, what do you want? They talk from the perspective of their cultural group. I, as a, you know, recent Nigerian immigrant want this.I, as a traditional Catholic want this. I, as a Muslim want this. Right. Where conservative ideas are motivated by culture. and faith. Okay? Like a unique, distinct culture. In the UK, there is a belief, this is not true. Conservatism is very [00:17:00] rarely motivated by religious ideology in the UK because there just isn't enough of it.It is too secular a culture to have a persistent conservative base that is motivated by religious ideology. Yeah. So instead, their conservative base is motivated by, um, what I call like small C conservatism. Like let's go back to the way things used toSimone: be. We'll just say curmudgeonly resistance to change.Can we say that?Malcolm: Exactly. Curmudgeonly resistant to change. And who would be more curmudgeonly and resistant to change than 1970s feminists? These women were not known for their logic, these women, historically, look at videos like PCU or something like that. Everybody always knew that this early iteration of the feminist movement was like, f*****g bonkers, and completely dislocated from reality.. Hey, Sam, isn't that the guy that you used to, uh... You went out with a white male? I was a freshman. Fresh person. Please. Please. . He's coming [00:18:00] over here. Sisters, form a wall! No, you don't , is Sam in there? In there? What's that supposed to mean? Yeah, cock man, oppressor.Malcolm: And that... Of course, as they aged, they didn't adopt new science. Of course, as they aged, because their entire ideology to begin with was stupid and reactionary. And, and, honestly, I think to a large extent used for them to gain access to sexual partners. To, to bully sexual partners. I'm sorry, I'm just saying.And so of course, they now... Are some of the people who want things to change the least in society. They want progressivism to go back to an older iteration of progressivism, but they are, and to be clear, not fighting for any real conservative value set. They are temporary not even temporarySimone: allies.They're reactionaries, right? I mean, I think it's more about defending something that they feel is under threat. It's not about proactively creating something that they want.Malcolm: Yeah no, I will say, [00:19:00] and I had mentioned this earlier, so when I'm talking about, like, where a lot of them, like, have it at peak, is they then have this forced on them.You know, they used to do this political lesbian thing to force straight women to sleep with them and pressure straight women to sleep with them, and now they're getting the, well, not liking girl dick makes you a bigot, and they don't like the tables being turned on them and of course it feels horrible to them.Of course it feels horrible to them, because it does feel horrible to be To have a person use their politics to pressure you into a sexual relationship. ButSimone: also to build what you think are safe spaces for yourself, only to have them invaded by kind of exactly the people that you want to have out of your treehouse.Malcolm: Yeah, well, I mean, and to be clear, I don't think that these spaces were really safe. I think that these were spaces that they ruled. It reminds me of our kids. We caught Octavian giving his younger brother, Toasty, a bad deal at one point. With toys. And we turned around in the car and we said, Hey, stop it, Octavian.Like, Toasty, that's, you don't need to do what he says. And he goes [00:20:00] Mama, Dada, do not talk to the little ones. Because he had worked out this little system that gave him a huge advantage within this little social sphere that he had created that he was using to systemically abuse another person. And I don't think that all of them are doing this in the same way that I don't think that all Trans women in lesbian communities are there to abuse women.But I think a minority, like, does it happen? Do people who are, like, not passing at all go in and say, if you do not sleep with me, then you are a bigot and you are a transphobe? And they use this to get lesbians who have been in these communities for a long time kicked out of communities that they really identified with, that were a core part of their identity?Yeah, this happens. This actually does happen. Right? Like, and I can understand why one of these women would then be like, okay, fatwa on you, you know, I, I dedicate my life to destroying you and everything you care about because you destroyed my sense of identity because these are often people without kids, you know, they're, they're people who [00:21:00] all they had was their community and their identity as good people, which they believed came from their belief that there are no differences between any humans.Okay. But ISimone: would say this is more, you've implied that it's sort of about getting sexual partners. I really think it's more about power than it is about sex.Malcolm: Okay, yeah, I'd agree with that as well. Yeah, they wanted power within these communities that they had isolated access to.Simone: Yeah, and I mean, I think when it comes to, To trans stuff in general, there's a lot of frustration among, um, groups more inclined to favor women or want to protect women or give them a special place to be really frustrated when men or formerly men enter women's spaces because men still often come in with huge advantages, physically, mentally, et cetera.I remember when we were at an event at one point and someone said that they were going to go and cover a trans man competing in a women's chess tournament and I was like, wow, so I mean, you [00:22:00] know, how are you going to cover the fact that like, she's coming in with a systemic advantage.Like, you know, men historically have out competed women quite significantly in chess and you know, many other fields.Malcolm: And the reporter who was trans had never heard of this.Simone: Yeah. It was like, Oh no, no, no. That's just because, you know, in, you know, women in chess face, you know, significant discrimination.Yeah. But there was, there was no acknowledgement of any sort of male advantage that may exist, like male, male brain advantage that exists in the game of chess. anD I don't know, I think that's interesting in that, like the view actually that this, this one journalist expressed was sort of turf ish blank slate.Malcolm: Yeah, it's very interesting that I recently, and I have seen this, and this is, dumb progressives do this often, where they will argue TERF positions without thinking through the consequences of what they're arguing.Gosh, if only incels could figure out that the real red pill is realizing that gender is a social construct and that chaos is the general order of the universe.It's about learning to [00:23:00] stop living your life for the binaries of old and start exploring yourself as a whole intersectional being.Malcolm: And that one is one I hear very frequently, is I'll see progressives who are like young and don't really understand, like, the core philosophy that is mainstream in the progressive party right now, and they will make arguments like, men and women are not different at all, how dare you claim that, how dare you claim there's any psychological differences between men and women.And when I point out to them, I go, you know that's a. Turf position, right? Like this is not something other progressives believe. They're like, nah, nah, I hate turfs because they've been told to hate turfs and they just haven't really updated themselves on the new iteration of progressive philosophy. And I think that that's what we were seeing was that individual.There's a lot of people who are just sort of their, their world perspectives are not based on any sort of cohesive logic. They are just based on like the last marching orders they were given. And the fight in the progressive space is who gets to give these marching orders. And I, and I also want to point out, you know, when we were talking about, like, the power structures in these lesbian communities before the, the trans women came into [00:24:00] them and people might be like, you are really reaching to say that these communities are abusive.No, seriously, look at the rates of abuse in these communities. They were wildly high when contrasted with heterosexual relationships or gay male relationships. They were abusive communities before, that were controlled by an abusive sort of elite class of, of, or not elite class, an abusive dominant class of women.when I was editing this video, I was looking for a chart to put here and I am shocked by these numbers. 44% of lesbian women have experienced abuse from their partner. Now what's really interesting is the one category of women that has a higher rate of abuse than lesbian women.He's bisexual woman with 61%. This would make sense if our theory about a class of mostly straight women in lesbian communities being gas lit by this concept of political lesbian ism and then abused into staying was in these communities was accurateMalcolm: And you often see this. [00:25:00] Even in, in, in stereotypes of these movements. This is why when you look at like the old school feminist movement, like, the women and women first skits from Portlandia you see these people engaging in so much like gaslighting and abusive behavior,You want this vagina pillow?No one does.Especially for the little one. The little one does not need a vagina pillow. He doesn't need one. Bob, we don't want to know that... The gender of the baby. We don't want to know the sex, and you know that. I don't know your gender. I don't know Candace's. I don't know mine. You don't know my gender? I don't. Do I look like a woman?I don't know what a woman looks like. Do you? I just feel like I'm good at recognizing a woman when I see one. What are you? You're, you're a detective? A gender detective? No, I just... Lifting up skirts and pulling down pants and just getting in there with your magnifying glass? I've never done that. I didn't even consider your gender.I know, you still don't. I didn't, didn't con... I've accepted it now. I accept you're a man. Thank you have a penis. That doesn't mean it's gonna stay that way. Excuse me. I raised you right. Do you remember? I do. [00:26:00] I definitely kept it fuzzy when it came to what gender you are. Not raising you by any kind of binary gender code. Do you remember I'd dress you up in a ballerina costume one day, and the next one a sailor outfit, and...So confusing. I'm proud of you. You know that, right? Even though you're a man.Malcolm: Because that's just really common.Simone: More just like female style behavior. I mean, I think there, and I would say that, I don't know how this works. Like we have, you know, for example, our company is, is. The vast majority female and it is not even remotely toxic, right? Like it's actually a great company. This, these are like no nonsense, extremely professional women that we work with.But then you also hear about these other companies that are just extremely toxic women run companies.Malcolm: Because you didn't hire them to be a woman run company. The other companies where I've seen them get really toxic. They're like, let's only hire women. You primarilySimone: toxic and like specifically preferential treatment toward women or like women, women first culture.Yes, yes. interesting.Malcolm: weLl because I think, [00:27:00] and I hate to say this, I think it's the women who are motivated to create those cultures. We're the type of the most toxic so they will often be like, Oh, all of these women I brought in were terrible. And it's like, why did you bring these women in over other women's?Why, when my wife is creating a basically all women and gay male company, we have almost no toxicity in our company. But when they are bringing in women, they create this level of toxicity. It's because they brought in women who they wanted to be able to control. anD that's part of why they didn't want men because they, the techniques that they were using to control people, they couldn't exercise on men as easily.We had a follow up theory to this. It couldn't be that almost all of the women we hire in our company are mothers. And that when women become mothers, the way that they interact with it, their women changes systemically. You know, uh, as we often say in different stages of an individual's life, you're going to have different emotional impulses.And when women are younger, it makes sense to have class status fights with other women. , in order to secure a mate, but once you [00:28:00] have secured a mate and you start having kids. It makes more sense to cooperate with other women as much as possibleSimone: Another thing I wanted to ask you is, is don't you think that actually the TERF view is the predominating view fundamentally in progressive culture and that hereditarian views, that is to say any sort of view where people inherit genetic traits and genders are, you know, inherit. actual differences is, is actually considered quite controversial and questionable.Whereas like mainstream culture is much more comfortable with just accepting that everyone starts at a blank as a blank slate. And it is society's fault. If anything isMalcolm: different. I can see why it's appealing. The problem is, is that if you take a perspective that there are no differences between men and women, it is really hard to argue that transness is like a meaningful thing.Like the TERF perspective, if you take that perspective, there are no differences at all between men and women. Yeah. It's the correct [00:29:00] perspective. It is the logically consistent perspective. I, I can think of no logically consistent way if men and women actually were exactly the same, and all the differences we perceive between men and women are due to social conditioning, that you could argue that we are making society a better place by affirming These, these gendered, what the TERFs would see as gendered stereotypes in trans individuals.Hmm. I mean, can you? Maybe I'm missing some like logical pathway here.Simone: Well, more what I was saying is like, isn't that the mainstream view in the end in progressive society? No, it's not. How is the mainstream viewMalcolm: different? Well, so the new mainstream perspective in progressive society is men and women are different.Is that the view? Well, so it's interesting that you say this. I think it's okay. Well, I'll word it differently. The people who control the progressive narratives, the academics who write on this stuff, it's their view. It's not the view of the average progressive, which is why turfs [00:30:00] are having such an easy time winning mind share in places like the UK because progressives haven't updated the rank and files answer to this question, and they've just never had it pointed out to them.The incongruity of. Of trans rights and trans people not actually existing and, and, and being phonies from the turf perspective. And so they just have never really had to combine these two ideas in their head. So they, they, they they're able to hold both perspectives simultaneously. And so I think that you're right.You are right. And that the rank and file progressive foot soldier actually believes there are no differences between men and women. Which is what makes them so susceptible to these arguments.Simone: Okay.Malcolm: Which is interesting, and it's also you know, why we have so much grief. Now, I will point out, as a, as a final hint here, there are people who call themselves TERFs now that don't have this ideology.They're more just what we call, like, trans skeptical people. And I'm like, they're like, yeah, but this TERF has, like, bigger reaction from people and a bigger movement. So it's what I'm going to [00:31:00] call myself. Oh. But they're not actually TERFs. TERFs are gender critical feminists. Like, that is what it means historically.Interesting.Simone: Oh. I I find it quite interesting. I, I wonder how long it's going to last. I don't think long. Yeah. You think it, is it going to die with the generation that? It'sMalcolm: going to die with the generation it comes from. There are very few young TERFs. It's just, even, even young people who call themselves TERFs, they don't even know that TERFism is like associated with this gender critical ideology because I've talked to them about it.Like when we were in the UK, I was like, you know what you're actually saying if you call yourself a TERF. And they're like, no, I didn't know that it was connected to gender critical ideology. I do believe that men and women are different. Because it's, it's a very hard thing to teach now. It's a very hard thing to argue now.It was never an idea that was that long for this world. I think.Simone: Interesting. So that there's sort of this like short lived generation, small group of highly influential women who were able to [00:32:00] speak. Sort of just through dumb luck to the curmudgeonly hatred of change of the people of the UK who lean in a conservative direction.Yeah. It has granted them outsized influence, which will not last for very long, but that's what's going on. Yeah.Malcolm: Yeah. Yeah. Because if you talk to conservatives in the U S you're like, why aren't conservatives in the U S tariffs? Because they're mostly religious and they believe that men and women are different and they're like, obviously men and women are different.We have different roles. What are you talking about? Whereas even at conservative conferences in the UK, I got like chastised for saying that. Oh, did you?Simone: Yeah. I mean, conservatives in the UK are very strange. It was, it was an interesting experience. The conservatives in the US are much more colorful, much more proactive and much more sovereign.And by sovereign, I mean, Like, they're like, this is my conservative group over here, and we're doing our thing, and we're really excited about it. Whereas in the UK, I think it was much more like, okay, I and all the [00:33:00] other UK conservatives are just kind of unhappy about what's going on. Then it wasn't like, oh, like, you know, I, this, like, you know, really, the TradCath, like, we're building weird stuff.It was more just like, hmm, I don't know about this. Very interesting.Malcolm: And I'd also recommend, if you guys want to see if you have TERFs, if you... Look in their college years. You can find pictures of them in their college years. You will see people who today we would see as extremist progressives.Almost all of them started as extremist progressives. And this is the fate of everyone today who actually believes the progressive message instead of understanding that it's going to constantly change because it doesn't care about truth. It cares about trends. It cares about status hierarchies. And that if you stick with the message that's popular today, you will be treated the same way we treat church.That example here that I almost know people are going to get eviscerated for in the future. It's people who have had a systemic advantage over other people being born smarter than other people, pretending that IQ is [00:34:00] in no way an inborn or hereditary thing it, it, it, it just, it sounds so unethical when you hear it.Like it's like a wealthy person saying, well, dead, nothing to do is my success. Everyone can be as successful as me. And this is an ethical position. It's like, no, that's not an ethical position that is sociopathic and insane. And it's very obvious to me that the progressive movement is going to move away from this.And everyone today who is out there arguing against IQ being hereditary is going to have a lot of egg on their face in the nearSimone: future. Right. Now, as you say, it's the, it's going to be the new, I don't see race.Malcolm: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Pretending you do not see a systemic advantage you have over other people is not moral.anD I should point out when she's saying that, we're not saying that IQ is in any way tied to ethnic groups. What we are saying is that both statements are just denying your own privilege and pretending that that is a moral position. It is not, and you will be treated... Harshly if you continue to hold this position.Yeah, [00:35:00]Simone: I love you. I love you, too Get full access to Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm at basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In this video, we go over some basic financial advice for families including budgeting strategies like envelope budgeting, tips on investing in a balanced portfolio across assets like stocks, real estate, crypto, and more. We discuss insurance, credit cards, buying in bulk, and investing in relationships and opportunities. This is practical financial hygiene advice, not get rich quick schemes.Malcolm: [00:00:00] This is boring, basic. Financial advice. But I feel like everyone out there is some sort of get what you couldn't do orSimone: like we'll look at financial advice. It's people looking at all these like charts and making it really complicated and they're way above my pay grade or like way below my pay grade, but pretending to be above, which is the worst.Would you like to know more?Malcolm: Hello, Simone. It is exciting to be here with youSimone: today. I'm so excited. Yeah. We're going to talk today about the most important investment of all, your health.No, just kidding. We're constantly sick because we have kids in school.Malcolm: So the most important investment of all is money. Yeah. TheSimone: most important investment of all, money.Malcolm: Screw your health. That's a good, that's a good, for yourSimone: health. Burn bright, die young,Malcolm: right? Yeah. So, it is true. The, the, the most important investment is money.After maybe kids, I guess, like, you know, we are pernatalists, so we've got to say that matters as well, but I, you know, I don't know how much actual control you have over the outcome of that. I think that's whyyouSimone: need to have a diversified portfolio. That means a lot of kids. [00:01:00]Malcolm: Yes. So this is actually a follow up episode to an episode that we did on how to get rich.Where we just went over like, you know, the basics of like the actual financial world starting company and stuff like that. And I think we'll do more topics on this cause the video did really, really well and I did not expect it to do well because it's not our normal sort of a topic. But obviously something I know a lot about I should mention, you know, degree, I've got my MBA from Stanford.Simone has her graduate degree from Cambridge. Both of us have worked in venture capital. Both of us have worked in private equity. And when it comes to investments, Simone, you had a really interesting way of framing it that you were going over with me earlier today about sort of.Simone: Yeah. We were talking about the issue of, of many people we know who've made a lot of money through investing doing it essentially by making bets, like all tact, tactically strategically.Statistically weren't very ill [00:02:00] advised but then paid off and then they just assume I'm a great investor. And you actually saw a lot of this happen during the pandemic. The, and I think a lot of, of poker players and coaches who like teach Bayesian thinking now who have. Really summed up this kind of thinking really well.They talk about when they're coaching poker players and they teach them to think in, in sort of a Bayesian way to make very well considered bets which are always calculated bets. And a thing that constantly frustrates them is the people they're coaching, like they'll lose a hand and they'll be like, yeah, well, I made, you know, I made the wrong choice.I messed up cause I lost. And they're like, no, no, no. You didn't make the wrong choice because you lost, you made the right choice, but you still lost because in the end, there's some chance involved in these bets. And the same case happens with investing. You know, sometimes you make all the right choices and you lose money, but also sometimes you make all the wrong choices and you make a ton of money.That doesn't mean you're a good investor. That doesn't mean you, you thought through things well, or [00:03:00] had a very robust strategy. And in the end, over the long run. You're probably going to lose money if you, if you don't think in a more calculated and statistically sound manner, which, you know, is, that was what we seen, right?You were talking about all the people, you know, who used to make tons of money. Like, I mean, they put everything on Bitcoin and now, you know,Malcolm: Yeah, no. And I, I think that for a lot of people, and this is a great, like evoke set, look at your friends who are bragging about what great investors they were during the Bitcoin, the last Bitcoin bull run.And, and we're believers in Bitcoin, but I think that a lot of people over invest in single assets because it's an asset that they have built a portion of their identity around, and this is something we increasingly see in investing, whether it's in the crypto space or whether it's in the you know, like, youSimone: know, it's just a stock, like a stock people really identify with, more like an industry people really identify with.Yeah.Malcolm: And, and this is. It's something that in the short term, when I look at these people who are all bragging about [00:04:00] this in my like Facebook feed and stuff like that they are not bragging much anymore because. What ends up happening very frequently is somebody makes one of these ill advised bets.It pays off. They now think, oh, I can make like an income investing. So then they start doing like really idiotic stuff like leveraged investing and stuff like that. And hold on, I'm gonna explain what I mean when I say leveraged investing is idiotic stuff. So, During bull cycles, this is something that always happens.Somebody accidentally makes some money investing. They think, well, if I make that amount of money investing every month going forwards, then I don't need to work anymore. How can I make more money investing? And then of course, they find out about leveraged investing and they go, Oh, so this is just like a thing where like, if I'm really Smart about my polls and my puts and everything like that, right?Like I can regularly on average make money through this investing thing. And that is true for some [00:05:00] people. We have some friends who just make astronomical amounts of money through this kind of investing. Yeah. Every single one of them. Is the type of person who did math for fun before getting into this.Yes. They were all like theoretical math people from like MIT or like programmers who do a lot of programming or like AI stuff for fun. The people who do this well, who can actually make money with this sort of investing as an income stream. These are individuals who Just have an enormous love and talent for a specific kind of math.If the reason you are going into leveraged investing is because you want to make money, you will fail. Maybe not the first time, but eventually you will fail. It is not a good, reliable stream of income, it is gambling. It is just gambling and you can make money [00:06:00] gambling. But most of the people who make money gambling are math nerds.They're not like a gambling nerds. I mean, there's, there's a few, you know, obviously like, like people who are just like uniquely good at gambling, gambling, but when you talk about the people who the casinos are afraid of, they're the math nerds, right? And so if that's not your thing. Don't go into that field as a safe source of income for you and your family.So we're starting with like some of the things you shouldn't do. And as Simone pointed out, and I actually you know, I was, I was talking with some of my friends after they, they made a bunch of money on Bitcoin. I was like, so you're going to balance your portfolio now, right? You made a big windfall.You're going to balance your portfolio now. And they're like, no, my windfall has validated for me that I need to further consolidate my portfolio around. The area of my windfall, which is how they, they usually end up losing more money than they made during their lucky streak. So let's talk about a balanced portfolio and how you should be thinking about it in the world that we're goingSimone: into.Oh, and before [00:07:00] we go any further, we are not. Investment advisors. We're not giving you investment advice. We're talking s**t about other people. All right. And we were talkingMalcolm: about how we hear the same investmentSimone: advice. Yeah, we are not. Yes, this is, this is not, this is not advice. I just want to make that really, really clear.So if, yeah, no, we're talking about how we do it and we're talking s**t about people. Okay. That's it.Malcolm: Yeah. So. This is the way I would suggest handling your investments. I strongly suggest that you with your spouse or your family or whoever, you know, is, is, is co related to your assets. And of course, once you intermingle your assets, it makes divorces much harder.So like this is for people in like really aligned marriages. But it does really help to be able to bounce ideas off of another person is, is, is I guess what I'm saying here. So, You talk through, or I guess was yourself, like on a long walk or something like that, what you think is going to change about the world.And I would generally develop three sort [00:08:00] of strategies, right? One is, I call them short term strategies, one is mid term strategies, and one is long term strategies. using what you predict to change about the world in the near future, make investments. But whenever you make an investment and you can do this for like a trade or something like that, that's a good general site for beginners.I think whenever you make one of these investments Be aware that you need to set sort of a clock for yourself of when you're withdrawing that investment. Unless it's in the like ultra long term investment strategy. And when you withdraw, the investment is typically when an event resolves or when, so, for example, we had a high confidence that there was about to be an armed conflict leading up to the Ukrainian war, and so we invested in a lot of military companies during that time period. When the war started, I go to Simone and I go, withdraw all our military investments. And a lot of people would be like, wait, why aren't you investing when the [00:09:00] war?Is going right? Like that's when the companies are doing well. No, that's when the market forces have said, Oh, they're, they're unlikely to get like additional cash flows going into them once the war is already going on, like unpredicted cash flows. It's once the unpredicted situation that you predicted resolves is when you withdraw your money from the market.And this is, this is really critical. That you do this and then that you don't do the silly thing, which is double down because you made one right, right bet. So, for example, if you're like, oh, this covid thing, other people don't see coming. I am going to make bets that assume it's going to be here and then you make some money on that.Don't didn't bet on the same thing that you already just bet on happening. further and more. You can make money on that. But most of the people I know who keep doing that end up getting burned more than, than resolved in their favor. Well, once you're, you'reSimone: saying that basically once. mainstream society, or at least a [00:10:00] large segment of people have normalized to an idea, you're not going to make money off of it anymore.You're going to make money off of something when you realize that there's a trend coming that other people have not yet really realized or acted upon. But once it's a mainstream idea, like during the pandemic, for example, we knew a lot of people who like, Well, into the pandemic, we're like, Oh, I'm going to do mask production.No, they all lost money because that it was too late. It was too late already. So you, you have to think way, way ahead of the curve. Once everyone knows that something is needed, that's priced into the market.Malcolm: Yeah. Okay. So, the next thing we're going to talk about is like categories of investment, right?So, you want. Your specific company plays, right? So this is just like I'm investing in this company or this company or this company. And then you want to invest in some either ETFs or mutual funds, um, these are honestly, from the perspective of your like lay investor, you can basically think of them as the same thing. They have different like tax implications and [00:11:00] different ways they distribute money and different ways that you reach them as investments, but they're basically collections of companies.So suppose you have a thesis around like some country in South America, for example. Well, then what you do is you, oh, by the way, Simone, can you please withdraw all our South America investments? Because a lot of them are really reliant on China and I do not expect positive stuff from China in the near future.Making a note. Ah, you see, this is how you, you handle investments, right? Because I had forgotten that we hadn't withdrawn all our South America plays. ThisSimone: is how we handle investments and we're not giving anyone advice.Malcolm: We're not giving anyone advice. Yeah, I was saying. So this is really useful if you're like, Oh, I think this country will do well.Then you can look up like ETS or mutual funds that are tied to that resource or country or play. Right? Like, I think oil producers will do well. And then you can look up like oil producer ETS. A recent one for us has been. Uranium, right? We think [00:12:00] uranium will do well. It was really depressed in price after the, the Fukushima situation and it's been pretty depressed for a while now, but I think after, you know, what's happening in Germany right now, the world's waking up that nuclear reactors were actually pretty high utility and we're going to get some more online.And once people see that, then we sell our uranium stocks. As soon as some country announces a plan to build a bunch of nuclear reactors, I don't wait till the nuclear reactors are there to in terms of real estate investment a lot of people will tell you, Oh, it's so easy. Do real estate investment and go into all this debt to do it.And it's like, that makes sense for a portion of your portfolio. And when you do own real estate, you should have debt on that real estate. It's, it's kind of. Stupid not to in a growing economy. rightSimone: now it's not going well, butMalcolm: it is the financially responsible thing to do in the way that the world economy has worked historically, which may [00:13:00] transform, but I think it'll be about 30 years before it transforms.Yeah. With I. E. An economy that shrinking on average, which is one thing we talked a lot about in terms of the way that things are going to resolve in regards to demographic class. Right? Now, something to note with real estate is you know, with the world's population, not growing as much in developed countries anymore.A lot of people can be like, why are real estate prices continuing to go up? I think this can be very confusing to a lot of people. And it's important to understand what's going on here. What's going on is that families where you used to have like five people to a household now everybody wants their own house because they're they're not finding partners anymore.Which is why you see this increase in price in things like starter homes and stuff like that. Which is interesting. You know, it provides for some economic opportunities, but it is a short term sort of like market on equilibrium and not a long term solution. A good play that I would do if I had some cash aside in real estate is buying the types of assets that private equity firms, and this is something that's really important to note.We mentioned [00:14:00] this was buying companies as well. There are assets that you can buy and make money off of. In ways that a private equity firm would make money off of something, but that are too small to be worth it for the effort of a private equity firm. So if you're buying some like historic building and you're transforming it and dealing with, you know, coding and stuff like that and, and turning it into like a five bedroom, like starter house thing, right?Like a five. Separate bedrooms. What's the word I'm looking for? Five singles apartment unit, right? That can be really powerful because that's just like too small for most private equity firms to care about. And yet it can be, you know, an enormous opportunity to, to, to make money with a little bit of risk around zoning and stuff like that, depending on how you handle it.So that's real estate. I would generally I mean, whether or not you own your house, it just depends on how quickly you plan to move. I guess I'd suggest anywhere you plan to stay for over six years, you should probably own.Simone: But it really depends, you know, on like rent versus buy. It depends on interest rates.It depends on the market. It also [00:15:00] depends like on people's desired quality of life. But often it's a, it's a really bad idea to own a house. I think WeMalcolm: need to do a whole video on buying houses because we have documents and documents on buying houses. It seemsSimone: like in many cases, you know, you spend so much money maintaining a house that it can be really hard depending on the market to even make a profit.Malcolm: Anyway, so next crypto assets Bitcoin, I, I'd say you always got to eat your broccoli with crypto assets.And by that, what I mean, Is we personally have a rule that any money we deploy in any crypto asset gets matched with a deployment in Bitcoin, uh, because it is the, the most, I think long term, the safest crypto asset as to why Bitcoin is like, we're not, I'm thinking about doing a full video on Bitcoin, but I don't really think I need to.I can just sort of talk about it a bit here, which is interesting because there's a lot of smart people who don't seem to get why. Bitcoin is such a thing of value. Look at like Peter's eye hand. Like we agree with him on a lot of stuff and he thinks Bitcoin is just sort of pointless. And I'm like, how, what?Okay. [00:16:00] So let's, let's go back a bit. Why do things like art have a lot of value, right? This is an important question that individuals should be asking themselves, right? They have a lot more value than like their actual value is because there is a limited quantity of them. And a wealthy society can use them as a very lightweight store of value.If they ever need to move or leave or flee a country, they are very useful value stores. You can think of them almost like printing something on money. Now, of course, there's also a lot of market manipulation in art. I would not suggest art investment. Personally, unless you have an enormous knowledge of art. If you're interested in something like art investment, instead invest in an area that you actually care about and have a passion for, like Magic the Gathering or something like that.Simone: We know people who've made a decent amount of money. Yeah. Like literal like card collectible markets.So this is not crazy.Malcolm: Yeah. But again, that's a thing was a fixed value [00:17:00] that is easily movable, right? Yeah. Yeah. This is why you know, historically a lot of wealthy people, they had lots of jewels on them all the time and stuff like that. It was so that if they ever needed to run, they would have a large portion of their wealth on them in a way that could be easily sold.Now, this matters a lot where this matters was Bitcoin is Bitcoin is literally the first time in human history there has been an asset class that was divisible, easily transferable and had a known quantity like if you're talking about gold or precious stones or something like that, they didn't have known quantities.If you're talking about art, it wasn't divisible. So, ISimone: mean, geez, Now with that company that sells fractional pieces of like a Picasso, it'sMalcolm: sort of visible. I guess it's kind of divisible. Yeah. That's a good point there. So, this matters a lot in a world in that is becoming increasingly hostile to wealthy individuals which it is, it is becoming increasingly hostile to wealthy individuals.And [00:18:00] in which wealthy individuals, as we predict, like if we're predicting one of the trends we see in the distant Like long term future wealth is going to become increasingly concentrated among the top fraction of a percent of the population. And that population disproportionately gains value from Bitcoin as an asset.If you're going to ask why, okay, like who's probably the wealthiest person in the world right now is probably Putin. Right? So think about it. You're Putin. If you store even a small fraction of your wealth in something like gold And and things go tits up as they almost did for him recently was that coup, right?Well, what are you doing having a line of 500 trucks full of gold on like russian highways? That's not gonna go well No, and you try to take that into another country and you you're screwed It's it's insane like and this is true for the Of people all over the world, right? It's, it's just a very high utility [00:19:00] asset for corrupt individuals, for ultra wealthy individuals who don't trust their population for all sorts of things like that.And we actually sawSimone: this a lot firsthand. I think what made us really excited about Bitcoin is the travel agency that we, that we run travel max has a significant client base in Venezuela. And when we discovered Venezuelans who were really thriving outside the country, like what were they getting into?What were they using prolifically? Bitcoin. Like it is how they got their money out of the country. It is how they transferred wealth. So we also see like from a like future world instability perspective, how tactically useful Bitcoin is when. Nations go aMalcolm: little crazy thing I'd say about Bitcoin, which is useful for people to know is think about your successful friends, divide them into two categories, young, successful friends and old successful friends.Your young successful friends, do they [00:20:00] differentially care about Bitcoin more than your old successful friends? And I'm talking about people who have made money in things other than Bitcoin. If the answer is yes, which it almost certainly is, that means that as they gain more money, more assets will be stored in Bitcoin so long as they maintain this interest over time.Which just seems so obvious to me. Like when I look at my friend group who is like, Bitcoin is a scam, they're old people. When I look at my friend group who is like still really doubling down in Bitcoin, it's... young people young, successful people, mind you, who are like high, high producers in the economy.And so what that tells me is the, that asset will increase in value over time. And this is another thing I'd look at. If you're looking at your long term investments, what's something that like all of the smart young people, you know, are investing in, but none of the old people, you know, are investing.Right. That can tell you which assets are, are good sort of longterm bets. Now after all this, I still wouldn't suggest having more than 20 to 30 percent of your [00:21:00] personal portfolio in crypto. I mean, we've had more than that at times. We've had like 51%. Yeah.Simone: Because the price balloonedMalcolm: so much. Yeah. But this is what I suggest is like the good.Amount. Right. What would you say real estate for a person's portfolio?Simone: I mean, we're, we're not giving advice. We're probably over deployed in real estate. Maybe it's like 40 percent of our assets and it's a mixture of investment in real estate businesses and actual real estate holdings.Malcolm: I'm generally really against bonds and debt.I mean, now it's, it's a little bit right now. Everyone's like, Oh, it's a great market for bonds, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Look, I get it. Simone. I do not think it is good enough. I do not think in our lifetime, there will ever be a market where bonds make sense in the way that they did when the mathematical models were built, that people are using to suggest how much of your portfolio should be.So I'll explain what I mean by this in the eighties the U S like [00:22:00] interest rate on bonds, like went up to like near 20 percent at points. Right. And this made bonds a great thing to get because not, not just for the interest that you were getting on But if the economy ever tanked, then what the Fed would do is they would lower the interest rate, right?Because this would boost the economy. And in so doing, the new bonds would generate lower interest rates. So it might go down to like 15%, 10 percent or something like that. And then this increases the value of the old bonds that people have, these high Interest rate bonds, right? So not only are you getting the regular cash flow, but if the cash flows is counter cyclical with market trends because of what the Fed is doing now, the problem is, is that from the 80s till today, the Fed never really hiked the interest rate back up again in a significant way.So now we're Basically hovering around a 0 percent interest rate, which means that if the Fed is going to do the thing now, it's gone up a bit since then, which is good, I suppose, but if the Fed is going to do the thing that it [00:23:00] needs to do to really increase the value of bonds, it needs to go to a negative interest rate, which it has done in some European countries.This means it's basically. It's, it's, it's weird. Like you're, I'm not going to get into it. The point being is you can only go so far in a negative interest rate before things get really wonky. And what this means is that the mathematical models that people are using to show you that bonds are good are from a period at which there was like a high economic momentum behind bonds because of their starting high interest rates.And then they went down over a period of time and that made bonds. Okay. sEem like a good asset in a lot of these economic models, but I just do not believe they are. Another thing that I would say I think is a terrible asset to own is precious metals. No, I don't consider something like uranium a precious metal.I consider it more like gas or something, but let's talk about why precious metals are such a bad asset to hold going forwards. Cause a lot of people are like, well, I don't know precious metals. I don't know what they seem. Precious metals directly compete with crypto. That [00:24:00] is. Why people historically own things like gold and they can say, well, gold has these other values it's used in industry purposes and stuff like that.And it's like, yeah, that's true, but that's not what gives it its assigned value in the marketplace right now. And, and, and you know that, and I know that people get it because it was a fungible divisible store of asset that historically was used by wealthy people to, to quickly move their money. The problem is there's a lot of these assets are just like stored in banks now, right?And you're, and you're trading slips of paper, which defeats most of the purpose of that utility case for the asset, which were their primary utility case. And this really matters because when you're making an investment in something like gold these days, you are making a bet, not just that gold will do well, but that Bitcoin won't replace it as the core store of value outside of financial marketplaces.Which is a stupid bet to make. Not, not [00:25:00] because Bitcoin definitely will, but because it's not a fully priced in bet. A lot of people who are investing in gold are old people who don't fully understand how much it has already been replaced by crypto assets for the younger generation. And therefore, and this is why gold and other precious metals have not reacted the way people expected them to react in market downturns.During periods in which crypto was widely used because they are just not that kind of a counter cyclical asset anymore And therefore shouldn't be used as what? I'm sorry if I went a little too hard on precious metals because I know we've got some precious metal Fans probably in the show. They're like well if society collapse if society collapses, you should have semiconductors and bullets Okay, you do not need goldSimone: don't forget the guns, Malcolm,Malcolm: but yes, obviously guns, but who doesn't have a pile of guns in their house?I guess normal people, normal peopleSimone: are fans inside though. I'm, I'm, I'm reading a, a biography of, of two women who were [00:26:00] like leaders in the early makeup industry called war paint. And interestingly, the early, you know, like twist lipstick cartridges were originally built in bullet casings from the war.Oh, cool. Huh? Anyway, because it was after World War One and they were left over, there's a bunch of, you know, inventories. It was cheap inventory and it's a good delivery mechanism for lipstick. So there you go.Malcolm: That isSimone: awesome. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, more paint. Super interesting so far. Yeah.Malcolm: I'm trying to think of other asset classes which were deployed in.Oh yes. Personal investments with friends and stuff like that. I think a lot of people undervalue these sorts of debt and equity investments that you can make in your local community, but I actually think it's an important part of being a engaged citizen. A lot of people are like, that can cause bad blood.It can cause bad blood if you go into these investments, assuming that they're always going to pay out. Yeah. I wouldSimone: say like. We've, we've, we've invested in, in the [00:27:00] majority of friend investments we've made have completely gone bust. We've gotten nothing back.Malcolm: And we're okay with that. Yeah. Because a lot of them are two people I know probably couldn't raise money from other people.Yeah. And we, I, I think to an extent with any investment, you also buy social capital. Yeah. And socialSimone: capital. And you, you invest in people and you invest inMalcolm: relationships. Yeah, it's an important thing and being an active member of, I think, a community that has a skill set around investing or helping people start companies and that sort of thing.I thinkSimone: our philosophy around investing in people is similar to our philosophy around any sort of risky investment, which is, We will never invest money that we have to have, like, we're like, if this is totally lost, that will not hurt us. Like our life isMalcolm: fine. Yeah. And that's very important when you're investing in friend stuff.It should never be a major part of your portfolio, but it can make sense. Anything risky. And in addition to that one type of [00:28:00] investment that we often make that I think a lot of people don't think about is investments that can pay off with career opportunities. Sometimes when people are starting a company or something like that, that I think could do really well and become a good career opportunity for us.I'll make an investment in it and I make it was the knowledge that that holds a, a door for me open. If the company does really well in terms of a recurring stream of revenue, even outside of my investment. And this is a weird thing that I think a lot of people don't think about, but it's actually an important partial payoff for an investment when youSimone: see something analogous to this with how people end up on nonprofit boards and then eventually paid boards is.When people sort of decide to become professional board holders, what they often do to start, and this is sort of like, I don't know, like a rich trust fund person thing, but we've seen it happen. Is first they use like family foundation money to buy their way onto nonprofit boards and then they get a bunch of those positions sort of build up their board career and then eventually get their way through all the networking they have with us and [00:29:00] with their resume onto real paid corporate boards.And it. That's sort of like a very low effort recurring revenue stream for them. But it's, it's similar in what you're saying here is that often you have to invest in someone or something or a company to get a position that ultimately builds up your career in a way that leads to different revenue sources.Never in the form of ROI or rarely in the form of ROI but often in other ways through opportunities and investing in opportunities, I think is an underrated formMalcolm: of investment. Absolutely. Some other just financial health things that I'd suggest for our audience just some of these might be obvious to you.You're not suggestingSimone: anything other, other financial health things we do for ourselves.Malcolm: Well, no, so I'd say one is insurance. Life insurance. If you have kids, you should have life insurance. Just an important thing to go out there and check. For credit cards you can make like, it can save you a lot of money in the long term if you have the right type of credit card.Especially if you do a lot of traveling. You can get like priority pass. What, Simone?Simone: Never, never use a credit card for debt.Malcolm: Oh yeah. [00:30:00] Never use a credit card for debt. I'm just talking about like the, the privileges, a credit card can get you or the cash back and stuff like that. And I would suggest everyone have at least one credit card.That's for like mainstream expenses, one Amazon credit card, which can get you 5 percent cash back on Amazon. You can do a lot of shoppingSimone: on Amazon. Yeah.Malcolm: In America is doing that. And then one credit card associated with A what do you call it? A wholesale retailer. So we would call that like our BJ's card, but it could also be, you know, if you're a little fancier, a Costco card.But no, I'm just talking about like the major expense sources in your life. If you have credit cards that are associated with them, you can often get better cash back dealsSimone: through that. Yeah. BJ's card this year, and we, we don't spend that much on gross, like we're pretty. Careful about our food spending and we don't eat out except for when doing business meetings.Our use of a credit card with a like bulk discount grocery store that's dedicated to the brand in this case BJ's has saved us or [00:31:00] led to cash back of over 3000 now almost 4, 000, which to us is a really big deal.Malcolm: Total or this year? This year. This year? This year. Wow, we spend a lot of money at BJ's.And, and, and, and speaking of just like a, another financial health thing that people who have families should be doing if you do not have a what's the word again? Chest freezer? You should. You should have a chest freezer. Chest freezers. Combined with large box stores like BJ's and Costco will save you astronomical amounts of money if you have kids.Yeah,Simone: so if people aren't familiar with these, these are like freezers into which you can fit probably three adult humans. So they only work if you have a fairly large house, but they enable you to buy a lot of frozen foods in bulk. You know, everything from vegetables to meats, which is a lot more affordable.Malcolm: And what else would you say? Any other types of insurance? I mean, there's the regular types of insurance, but I'm sure a lot of people are already thinking about [00:32:00] that. Any other advice you'd give?Simone: This is how we do investing. And I would say we're not sophisticated investors. There's a lot of like weird tax implications.And, you know, like if you take a loss on something like, you know, and also how you reinvest money after. Getting, you know, a pig payout. Like we're not really not sophisticated investors. There's a lot of weird rules and, and like tax things around investments. All we're doing is sharing.Malcolm: Yeah. Yeah. This is practical.This is a get rich investing advice. This is basic financial hygiene, investing advice. Yeah.Simone: I mean, so yeah, aside from that, we. Basically, we have a very strict budget. And we actually do a version of like envelope based budgeting, which I think people are really familiar with. And as I've alluded to in other podcasts, there's like an entire cottage industry of you on YouTube.And we do, we do. So every time money comes in. Like per month, like we have a [00:33:00] sort of like, this is how much money we receive. Everything goes into actually like separate, literally separate bank accounts for our top expenses. So home bills, childcare, pet expenses, your discretionary income, my discretionary income.We have a, like a, we have an internal VC fund, which is sort of like money that we allocate for risky bets or weird investments in like friends or just like stuff that might, so not stuff that's fun, but things that are an, are an investment that is risky. We have a fund for that. We have a fund for our children's.We haveMalcolm: a side note here for, for, for listeners. One of the things that we do put a lot of money into is investments that are meant to lower childcare costs for us. Eventually things like you know, we put a lot of money towards our nonprofit, which is developing this educational alternative, the Collins Institute.And for us, that's an investment in that. If it can produce this alternate education system, and if it's the quality that we want it to be at, which we have confidence that will be like, I actually think it's. [00:34:00] It's taken so much longer than I wanted you to get it live, but I think it's going to be so much higher quality than when I initially expected that it is going to really dramatically cut childcare costs for our kids.And it's the same with, you know, people who were helping get their businesses off the ground. They help us with childcare as a, an exchange for that. And so that's a long term investment in reducing childcare expenses.Simone: Yeah. But basically if we want to spend money on something and there's not enough money in the account.That we have for that thing, like travel or gifts. We have, we have an account for gifts and for travel. And it's not happening. We're not taking our debt. We're not stealing from other accounts. And we also have an emergency fund that will cover our basic expenses as a family for six months. And that emergency fund is really helpful.Like when we've lost our jobs or when we stopped paying ourselves during the pandemic while still working that was really, it was really necessary. So those are the other things that we do again. This is not advice, but this is this is how we do and we're not again sophisticated, but so far this has worked well for us, but I would say that we don't we're not.[00:35:00]We don't make a ton of money. We have friends who make tons and tons of money from investments and they're super pros and it's all they do. And, but we would, we spend less than 2 percent of our mental bandwidth on investing. Yeah. So this is, this is what we get, but it's worked out for us. Yeah.Malcolm: All right.Well, I love you to death, Simone. And who knows if this does well as well, we might be doing a lot more financial stuff for people. This is boring, basic. Financial advice. But I feel like everyone out there is some sort of get what you couldn't do orSimone: like we'll look at financial advice. It's people looking at all these like charts and making it really complicated and they're way above my pay grade or like way below my pay grade, but pretending to be above, which is the worst.Malcolm: All right. Love you to death Simone. And I appreciate that we have a. Sound financial strategy where I know that she manages our investments by the way, because I I'll tell her like what I'm thinking, but I am I, I take too much like emotional hit from looking at investments going up or down. She's, [00:36:00] she's the best kind of wife, the one who holds your crypto keys to make sure you don't sell during market crashes.I love you to death,Simone: Simone. I love you too. Pizza night tonight. See you downstairs. Get full access to Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm at basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In this video, we analyze what the future may hold for East Asia as global civilization starts to collapse. We discuss China's precarious economic position and how their social credit system and COVID policies indicate preparation for maintaining control through collapse. We explore scenarios for Japan and Korea being taken over by cults or other authoritarian groups. We look at the importance of semiconductor manufacturing and evaluate the future prospects for Taiwan, Singapore, Indonesia and more.Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] So, you might say, well, why am I still kind of bullish on China? One, they can force population which is going to be relevant for whatever comes after they pass through the eye of the needle, the collapse.But also they have set up their entire system. That's what the social credit system is. That's what the constant monitoring is. That's what the money that the government can track is. Why did they do these COVID protocols? If it put them in such a dangerous position, vis a vis their existing economy, because it was all a planSimone Collins: for their They were preparing for collapse.Yes,Malcolm Collins: they were preparing to maintain their existing government systems in a collapse. A total economic collapse. ISimone Collins: mean, like, if that is true, that is pretty baller on their part. Well,Malcolm Collins: what it means is they will have something that a lot of the world doesn't have, which is not a competent government.The Chinese government is not competent. It is anything but competent. It is wildly incompetent. But at least... A government that is capable of becoming competent again, a government that is capable of disseminating some of the hard [00:01:00] policies that can culturally unify a geographic region, increase its fertility, and maintain some level of isolated technophilia.Would you like to know more?Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone! We have done two previous episodes on what is going to happen as civilization, as we understand it, begins to collapse. As we have stated in the previous ones, it will collapse for one of two reasons. Either population collapse, as we've said, you know, Historically speaking, the economy has risen around the world for the past 500 years or so, because the number of consumers and the number of producers was growing exponentially.We are about to hit a world in which the number of producers and number of producers, consumers, at least the ones who have high economic productivity, are declining exponentially. And we have leveraged every layer of our economies, which was great in times of growth, but in times of scarcity will lead to economic collapse.Or AI fixes it, but AI also frees the bourgeoisie from the proletariat meaning that the wealthy within our society will, [00:02:00] increasingly become more wealthy and will increasingly become concentratedly wealthy and will use that wealth as systems begin to collapse to protect themselves from the masses.And that means the masses, again, will experience economic, uh, positive or, or, or what's the word I'm looking for here?Simone Collins: Depravity? Disempowerment. Economic disempowerment.Malcolm Collins: Economic disempowerment of which we have almost never seen. And possibly justSimone Collins: economic, also economic isolation. Yeah. AndMalcolm Collins: as we pointed out, in a lot of the world, what this is going to look like is not like moving back to the developing world.It's not like we will live like we're in a developing world. It will be much worse than that. It will be a developed society that is collapsing. Which if you want to look for a good example of that on the global stage, you are looking at what it's like to live in South Africa today. That is what most of the world is going to be like within our children's lifetimes.But this is the western world, and when I say the western world, I'm actually including a lot of the world. Russia, India, places like that. The one place that is really going to [00:03:00] buck this pattern is East Asia. But East Asia is going to buck it for reasons that may be equally dystopian. Yeah. So this is very interesting South Africa may also end up bucking it, but we, you can watch our video on Africa and a pronatalist system in the future.We really don't know what's going to happen to Africa. We have limited experience there, but most of us have lived for extended periods of time in East Asia. So we have a much better understanding of East Asian cultures and how they are reacting to this. Mm hmm. So the country that matters most for where East Asia is going in regards to all this is China.We can already begin to see China's reaction to rapidly falling birth rates, which is a restriction of, so, so first they just tried to force people. They were like, okay, get out there, have kids. We're telling you have kids. And people said, no. And China was like, oh, this hasn't happened before. Okay, well, we will restrict your access [00:04:00] to vasectomies.We will restrict your access to abortions. And you're going to see what, what happened, you know, with the one child policy. If you look at, like, the year without a, what was it, a year, or was it a summer without a... birth or something like that. It was this region where they go, we're having a summer without a birth in this region because we're so good at following the communist party's orders.And what they really just did was forced abortions on everyone who got pregnant and like murdering people and it was horrifying. And if you want to learn more about it look up other videos on it. It is almost as gruesome as you can conceive. Now what we are likely to have is similar things. The, the summer where every woman gets pregnant, how does that happen?Well, you get inseminated when you go to a doctor's visit, you get inseminated When you, when you get the flu, you get inseminated. There are so many ways that they could fix this, if they really have to, is the way that the, the CCP thinks. And they could even do, you know, birthing facilities. They could do all sorts of things that shows sort of a top down thought process that we wouldn't even consider in the West.Now, Before [00:05:00] they get to this, they're going to have to go through the needle, which is complete economic collapse. The Chinese system, and we can do a different video on this, is so fucked, it's almost impossible to describe how fucked the Chinese system is. A lot of people are like, well, no, it's just their demographics.It's not just their demographics. They get something like 83 percent of their energy needs inputted, and like 86 percent of that are coming from the Middle East. That means that they're going around, like, all of these people who hate them. Like India, and through, like, the Strait of Malacca, which could easily be blockaded.Or like, it's, it's, they are in an incredibly vulnerable international position. Worse than that, they don't even produce their own food. The food they do produce is they don't even produce their own phosphates for that food. So they wouldn't even have the same food production they have now if they were blockaded.Oh, and on top of that, and they don't even need to be blockaded. You just need to have the [00:06:00] beginnings of a collapse of a globalist system, which we are already beginning to see, which is what happens in this future. On top of all that they don't even have water, like, they, they have water in some parts of China, not other parts of China, there's a great video on it that I'm gonna link to here on China's water situation, but something like, 96 percent of their water is just unusable because it's so polluted and this is a huge problem.When their current energy needs, like their current energy production within the country is mostly coming from coal, which requires lots of water to make work. So, and then they require water to grow their own crops, which they can't even grow.Ah, I almost forgot to mention there. Huge. infrastructure problem. to learn more about this topic i check out the video china has a debt problem three times larger than ever grand by economics explainedMalcolm Collins: And then their, their whole housing situation, which...Okay, I'm going to quickly touch on this because a lot of people don't know what's going on with the housing situation and why it's so much worse than individuals think it is. So, something like 76 percent of [00:07:00] all of China's wealth is in their housing market. Why is that? Because that has been the most stable of all of the markets within the Chinese economy.You know, historically... Companies have in the stock market has been really up and down because they can randomly be interfered with with the state, but the state cannot interfere with the housing market in a way which would cause it to collapse, or at least historically, it couldn't. Why couldn't it?Because when the communist party took power, what they did? Was they said, okay, we're nationalizing all property, all land in the country. And then what ended up happening is the Chinese. I said, if you want to understand how the Chinese system is, is modeled, it's kind of like states, but they're called provinces like you would have in the U S but in the U S a lot of federal tax dollars go back down to states to help pay for things that's not true in the Chinese system and the Chinese system.The provinces really have to pay for everything local themselves. And the federal tax dollars go to big federal national projects. But so it turns out that these states are not good at collecting taxes. Anybody who knows historically, that's the sign of an empire that's about to collapse. So [00:08:00] there's something like, estimated they're only collecting like 3%, 3.5 percent of the taxes they're supposed to be collapsing. This is really in line with like a, a non functioning civilization. But anyway so how do they make up for this? What they do is they rezone land that is on the outskirts of urban centers as urban land, which allows them to sell it, because rural land is still owned by the people in China.And then they sell them through debt that's taken out. That's not supposed to be taken out by these like secret holding codes. You can look into this more, but essentially they are supplementing, not having tax income with tax income, with land sales at the provincial level, this can make up like 33 percent of like a provinces, like ongoing operating expenses, which means that is if the.Real estate situation in China collapses, which it's going to, and it is. Also their ability to get government revenues also collapses. To an extent that is not easily replaceable with tax revenues. [00:09:00] In addition to all of this, their like whole economic infrastructure, their whole reason for existing on the global stage, was as a bit globalist, multi country supply chain. So they would do one part within a globalist, multi country supply chain. Well, with COVID, they showed that they would just like close their ports, close their factories, and you're increasingly seeing them do stuff like this, which means that they are no longer useful as a player in a multi party supply chain, because you block just one step.Even if you're like one of a hundred steps, you've blocked the entire supply chain, which means that if you're doing anything in China and now needs to be lateralized in China now for. minor, minimal economic problems when they block supply chains. The problem is, is that China can't do any advanced technology.They just suck at it. Even hallway's newest chip looks like it's probably based in Taiwan. They're pretending like they're making it locally, but that's wild. That like China can't even make it chips for its own phones. Like the main thing it's doing. They just do not have this technological capability. So anyway and as to why they [00:10:00] don't have this technological, they had this huge project where like they were trying to do like simplistic things, like just make their own pencils that didn't suck. Like this was a huge project in China for a long time. Pencils. There was a pencil campaign. Yeah, there was a big pencil campaign that was like, I think up to like 2015 or 2016.So recent. Wow. To just find out how to make competent pencils.I'm at ballpointpen sorry about thatMalcolm Collins: They, they, they actually. Really kind of suck at this and worse than all of this is that if you're going to set up a new part of your supply chain, it's like always cheaper to do in Mexico now if you're a U. S. company because labor is less expensive in Mexico now.So why would you do it in China? So they've lost their like economic resendetra. Their entire system's a house of cards. They are geopolitically incredibly vulnerable. All of this is painting this, this horrible, horrible, horrible picture for China. And some people are like, yeah, but they have like good battery supplies and it's like, yeah, but that doesn't increase their economy.Okay, they need to find ways to increase their economy if they're going to economically grow that just slows the speed at which they are [00:11:00] declining, which is going to be catastrophic. All right. So, you might say, well, why am I still kind of bullish on China? One, they can force population which is going to be relevant for whatever comes after they pass through the eye of the needle, the collapse.But also they have set up their entire system. That's what the social credit system is. That's what the constant monitoring is. That's what the money that the government can track is. Why did they do these COVID protocols? If it put them in such a dangerous position, vis a vis their existing economy, because it was all a planSimone Collins: for their They were preparing for collapse.Yes,Malcolm Collins: they were preparing to maintain their existing government systems in a collapse. A total economic collapse. ISimone Collins: mean, like, if that is true, that is pretty baller on their part. Well,Malcolm Collins: what it means is they will have something that a lot of the world doesn't have, which is not a competent government.The Chinese government is not competent. It is anything but competent. It is wildly incompetent. But at least... A government that is capable [00:12:00] of becoming competent again, a government that is capable of disseminating some of the hard policies that can culturally unify a geographic region, increase its fertility, and maintain some level of isolated technophilia.Simone Collins: Yeah, but I don't really get that impression that that's the direction they're moving in. I see a lot of efforts to subdue the population and control the population and maintain, you know, for those who have power, maintain their position.Malcolm Collins: That is all true. But that is going to be infinitely better than the religious extremism that is going to dominate the rest of the world.Right,Simone Collins: but I don't see how that, I mean, unless they have some sort of elite... Separate, highly educated, technophilic, suddenlyMalcolm Collins: innovative. Yeah, so this is also important to note. So a lot of people are like, yeah, but won't China like start genetic selection, genetic engineering? No, China is really resistant to all of these.People who ask this stuff and expect East Asian countries to engage with this technology do not understand fundamentally how conservative East Asian countries are. They are. [00:13:00] more conservative, like, like a small C level than probably anyone or any cultural group you have met. They are more conservative, for example, than ultra Orthodox Jewish communities.They are more conservative than Amish communities in the ways that they engage with cultural technologies. They will, it seems very unlikely to me that they will engage with these technologies. thEy, if anything, will go back to something that looks more like the imperial exam systems. They will go back to a model that is based on old Chinese empires.But what is important and what I am... It's not great, but it's not going to look like what we are going to see across the West, which is small, stable, technophilic havens surrounded by religious extremists who hate them and want to kill them. China is just going to be like a large economically depressed region.That is finding a new stable state for itself, and it will take a while to find that as China always does, [00:14:00] but as it begins to find something that works, it will begin to come back as a major and unified play. This has huge implications for all of the countries around it. One, we're going to talk about Taiwan and we'll do another video on whether China would attack Taiwan or anything like that, but if Taiwan leaves the globalist economy, The globalist economy is kind of, because they are the only ones who can produce a lot of the chips that are used in like everything.Yeah, for now. Everything. Like it is almost kind of weird that no one else has figured out how to produce these chips at the scale of Taiwan. They produce a huge chunk of the chips we use for almost everything in the world. And if things went down in Taiwan. There are only a few countries that could even supply themselves with chips.China isn't one of them. Okay. I'm just saying that right now, Korea probably could. And so, it would make sense for the U S to maintain a tight alliance with them. [00:15:00] Japan probably could, the U S could to a lesser extent very few countries in Europe could I know that The UAE has looked into building technological capability on this front.Israel could probably but very few countries could.To clarify, I'm not talking about existing capacity for advanced semiconductor manufacturing. I'm talking about having the human capital to build that or the the investment capital and will to build out things like that so i mean if the chips were shut off which countries could conceivably begin producing them themselves after you know like eight 10 year investment inBuddha periodMalcolm Collins: And this is just really meaningful if you're thinking about the future of a de globalized world and what partnerships matter. In the past, the if you've ever played like a game of Civ and like a new resource unlocks like iron or uranium, and you're like, God, I've got to make sure I have a good alliance with a country that has some within their borders.It's going to be the same way with people who can produce these advanced[00:16:00] silicon chips. Especially if Taiwan leaves the world stage. Okay. But now what happens with Japan and Korea? Their, Korea's fertility rate is desperately low. I do not think this means that Korea will cease to exist. I think it means that some subgroup within Korea is going to replace the existing population.This could be an immigrant population or a religious extremist population within Korea. One thing that people don't know about Korea who like don't know Korea is Korea is great at cults. They are a mass exporter of cults. They have exported many cults. The Moonies, for example, came from Korea. And they, they create really good cults.When I say good cults, I just mean that they are internally consistent. I expect the future of Korea, when we say what's going to be, it will be a single cultural unit, which will make it very different from other countries around the world. But it will be run by a single, what we would today think of as a, a high fertility cult.Now, whether that cult is technical. Phobic or technophilic is yet to be seen. If it is technophilic, it will be one of the largest [00:17:00] players in world history. And so that could be really interesting. Another,Simone Collins: yeah, I, I, I could see interesting with Japan, like I, I visited what you could describe as, as like cult complexes in Japan.And they feel very different. From mainstream Japanese culture and also a lot more prenatalist. They're not currently technophilic, to my knowledge, but they totally could becomeMalcolm Collins: technophilic. When you're familiar with like their, their cultural ethno groups in Japan that are based around the descendants of samurais that believe you need to have something like...Yeah. And they still hold to these practices. And so they have really high fertility groups.I should clarify here that this is not the dissonance of all of the same right here in this group. It is a small, small group in Japan that would best be called a cult by outsiders as all groups that, that culturally extremely differentiate from mainstream society are often called. If they are considered youngish.Now, clearly this group takes inspiration. From what they define as their heritage however who's to say [00:18:00] how many of them are actually from those samurai familiesMalcolm Collins: So what we might actually see by Japan, Weebs fantasy is it gets taken over by the descendants of the Samurais. aNd they have, yeah, basically a, a martial unified Samurai empire of a country. Which again makes it very different from a lot of the Western world.And so you can say, why? Are they able to do this? Why aren't they falling apart in the same way the western world is falling apart? The core reason is that they are basically already city states. Japan is a city state and Korea is a city state. A huge portion of each country's population, and an increasing portion of each country's population, is based around the metropolitan centers of each country.And so is their economy, so is everything that they're building, which makes it Easier to culturally consolidate especially when everyone around them is so hostile to them. So that is the direction I think that those countries are going. If you look at what's the word I'm looking for here?Indochina [00:19:00] and Oceania not including australiaor new zealandMalcolm Collins: Those are the two areas, like Indonesia and stuff like that, you know, Indonesia is going to be a really big player in the future but how they're a big player isn't clear to me, they could be won by a technophobic population, Singapore obviously is, is really well set up for this haven state world that we're entering into that we've described in other videos, I think they're going to be a very large player and if Israel ends up getting taken over by technophobic populations.The, the number one contender to be the core linchpin in the network of havens is going to be Singapore. If they can get their act together pronatalist wise, which I suspect they will be able to, because the government there. Is, is sayingSimone Collins: what I thought you were going to talk about is, is the, I think, you know, when it comes to, we've, we've talked about corporations producing humans like essentially corporations, either through, you know, surrogates that they, they hire to gestate their material as it were[00:20:00] or through artificial womb someday to start creating humans and then using them like in a corporate way for, you know, producing things for having their own sort of state.I feel like if that is going to happen somewhere, it's more likely to happen somewhere in East Asia. I mean, I've always thought like China is on thatMalcolm Collins: list. Who does it? We don't know. I actually think it might be Korea. It could be. It could be. But you've also got to keep in mind how conservative these countries are.Again, I say people expect them to be the ones that do theweirdSimone Collins: genetic stuff. This is, this will happen in a somewhat post collapse state, I think, where like just People stop enforcing things that the attention to this sort of goes down. And then at some point, some really entrepreneurial person is going to just go for it, ask for forgiveness, not permission, or not even that, because at that point, if they're the ones.With the humans, they're, they may be the ones with the power, so it won't evenMalcolm Collins: matter. Yeah, so I could see something like this being done by like a Korean tribal. Hmm. There'sSimone Collins: tribal system. Samsung [00:21:00] humans. Samsung humans. Yeah,Malcolm Collins: Samsung humans to live in your, your Samsung apartment. Yeah. Yeah. Another country.So a lot of people are like, yeah, but what about the rising individuals today? Like we're invested in some countries like Vietnam, for example, I think they have a really positive future in the near term. But one thing we have to remember about countries like Vietnam is unfortunately these countries that are doing well because they're developing countries today of the globalist system we live in.The countries that are going to be hit hardest. As the developing system begins to collapse are going to be the ones that are what we call developing countries today. You're gettingSimone Collins: free rent when it comes to the police, seize like open, open shipping channels and, and demand from other nations. So,Malcolm Collins: yeah, so, so this is why Latin America is going to be hit so hard.And one of the reasons why we just like, don't even talk about like, it does not matter economically in the future because Latin America has really tied itself to China. And as China collapses, specifically Southern [00:22:00] Latin America, Mexico is going to be fine, like they'll partner with the US, but if you're looking at, at, at South America specifically they rely too much on exports to China.And the Chinese economy is going to stop like, what are they exporting? They're exporting like raw materials, like, metals and copper and stuff used in this building craze. And these buildings are empty. A lot of them, you know, they are trading like crypto. The, the, the reason why in China, an unfurnished building.Room trades for more than a furnished room is because it is like anunmolested like token. They are a tokenized unit and the reason why and I didn't really get to this like why is it? That the real estate always goes up It's because everyone knows that when the real estate does get begin to persistently grow down That's when the state as they understand it collapses And so if you can't take your money out of the country and the the stock market doesn't matter.Well You If the money is going to crash [00:23:00] anyway. Because it will crash anyway, if the real estate crashes, because the government will crash, which is doing all sorts of funny things with their currency. Then you might as well put it in real estate. It's the only place that makes sense. So anyway anything else you wanted to talk about?Simone Collins: No, but I hope East Asia does well. And I'd love to see things bounce back. I think the fun thing about them, and they're really like, this is the area to watch. This is like the, the geographic zone to watch because I think it's the most wildcard y one. Because it's seeing such a profound, at least like in, in China, Japan, South Korea, such a profound crash that like, it's so hard to like, who, who knows what's going to happen.And I think that's really, it's both very dire, but also possibly exciting if you're like, well, I mean, you know, who knows they're, they're going to get really creativeMalcolm Collins: possibly. Yeah. And, and it, and it, it, it does make sense to keep alliances with most of these groups open while also correctly ranking their importance.And I think one of the big problems with China today is people vastly overestimate [00:24:00] its importance to the future of the world. Yeah. It's just not that important. I remember I was, I mentioned this once on a call, was a, you know, one of these CCP, Chinese, whatever people, the high level person, and they got all mad.They're like, China has risen many times and this is, you, you see, China has a long history and it always rises. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Listen to what you're saying. Why does China need to keep rising? It's because it keeps collapsing. And you are at the end of one of those cycles right now. If you look at history.So yeah, China is just not that relevant from a future perspective. Taiwan is super, super duper duper duper duper duper relevant, like more, much more relevant. Actually, one of the funny predictions I have for the future, people want a really funny prediction for the future, is I believe there is actually a good chance if China doesn't successfully take Taiwan, that in 50 to 60 years, there could be a real possibility of Taiwan taking China.[00:25:00]Just because they will be economically so much more productive than China, so much more important to the world stage and China itself, there is a small chance, we've talked about all the systems they've put in place to allow the system to collapse while still maintaining centralized control, but that that centralized control falters or you end up getting fights within the CCP, which ends up subdividing the country as has happened before in Chinese history, everybody knows about the warring states period or the three kingdoms or the You know, and this weakens them enough that Taiwan can come in and begin to take them one at a time, which could happen.That would be an interesting twist of fate. Anyway yeah. Any other thoughts? No. Love you. Love you too. Get full access to Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm at basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In this video, we discuss the two enemies of the pronatalist movement - the urban monoculture and the xenophobic, technophobic religious extremists. We talk about how the urban monoculture acts as an "easy mode" villain, uniting high fertility groups, while the real threat is the aggressive, ultra-religious groups who want to eliminate all other cultures. We explore which groups may act as allies in creating pluralistic, technophilic haven states in the future.Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] One increases fertility on its own, like xenophobia increases fertility on its own, but in addition to that, it also lowers the economic potential of a group, further increasing its fertility in that direction, which means you're getting this cluster of strategies,, low economic output, high xenophobia.High technophobia, which cluster together into like one branch of winning cultural strategies, which by far today is the cultural strategy, which is outcompeting all others in terms of fertility, a lot of them believe that at the end of the day there's just going to be one religion, one culture in the world. That's it. There can only be one as we say, they are highlandering it. And so, essentially, the true enemy of the pronatalist cause, not the immediate enemy, the urban monoculture, which is serving as a very simplistic villain for us right now, a villain on easy mode that is meant to prepare us for the true danger, which comes [00:01:00] after us, which it is to a large extent protecting us from, which is a world full of. technophobic, aggressive, ultra religious extremists that want everyone who's not them dead.Would you like to know more?Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone! Hi, gorgeous.Simone Collins: Too much energy?Malcolm Collins: Never. So this episode is going to be a bit of a follow up from the last episode, but it's also going to be a standalone. So you can watch these likely in either order. And they're going to touch related to, but divergent concepts.Simone Collins: And you'll include a link to the first one in case people want in theMalcolm Collins: description.Yeah, I could actually do the thing in YouTube where I like tag the first one. Do that, youSimone Collins: young technophilic person. There'sMalcolm Collins: a little button here right here. This is where it appears and you push the button and it will like open a thing where you can then click and like open it in a different tab to watch after you're done with this one.[00:02:00] Okay, great. So, with this episode, what we are going to discuss is the two enemies of pronatalism. And so let's talk about sort of what pronatalism is more broadly. It is a movement dedicated to ensuring the preservation of a pluralistic and diverse human species. And people would be like, well, why that?Why not? Just like increasing birth rates? Because if we do nothing, what's going to happen is we're going to have a crash in human fertility rates. We're going to have a crash in the world economy. Both of which are things that are still going to happen if we do something, but to me, A few groups will come to power and basically erase everyone else.That's what it looks like is the path that we're going on. We're going on sort of a monoculture of a species where like one or two or maybe three, if we're lucky, if our group That's just completely fails cultural and ethnic groups will be the only things [00:03:00] left of our species and they will wipe out the rest.And that is absolutely terrifying to us. Because I think that 1 of our greatest strengths is our diversity. And I also think that in this unengaged world. The groups that end up wiping out most of the other groups are going to be quite technophobic, i. e. we are moving back to a dark ages of extremist religious tribalism.Yep. And that is not great. Not, not, not great at all. And so what we are trying to do is build an alliance of the individuals that are high fertility and do want to exist in the future, and the cultural groups that are high fertility and do want to exist in the future. And this alliance means something.If you are a culture that is high fertility, Sort of axiomatically, you differentiate significantly from the dominant culture in our society right now. It is a very low fertility cultural group. This is what we call the cult, or the urban monoculture, or the [00:04:00] virus, whatever you want to call it. It is this large culture that exists in pretty much every major city in the world today.And when we say that, what I mean is, is if I look at the culture in, You know, London versus you know, London versus New York versus Boston, you know, they're all going to be much more similar to each other or Paris more similar to each other than they are to just like, I go a few hours to like, the Amish or like the Hasidic population or something like that.These high fertility populations, uh, almost definitionally need to differentiate in our culture, the culture, our family practice, it differentiates a lot from the urban monoculture. And what this means is that the first enemy that the pronatalist movement is facing is this urban monoculture. And that is because the urban monoculture being very low fertility can only replenish its ranks by converting the children of nearby demographically healthy cultural groups.[00:05:00] And those are becoming increasingly rare. So it is becoming increasingly aggressive in these conversion. Policies, um, and these conversion policies are a danger to every single a high fertility cultural group, because those groups, you know, almost the more high fertility they are, the more they differentiate from the cultural group, and the more they are producing something of value to that cultural group, which it wishes to mine in a way that destroys, I mean, we often liken it to cultural genocide, but it's not really traditional cultural genocide, yes, it is driven by a hatred and dehumanization of these cultural groups.You know, they see them as deplorable and savages as most people do in committing cultural genocide, but it's also a necessary. Genocide. It is a parasitic by design cultural group that cannot survive without, um, cannibalizing its neighbors. And so you can almost think of it like, you [00:06:00] know, it's not that we hate this cultural group, right?But if you're going to save the fly, you kill the spider. If you save the flies without killing the spider, eventually the spider dies anyway. You know, and so all of us, all of the pronatalist communities are banning together right now to defend ourselves against this one cultural group. And we frame it very much as the enemy important thing to note is 1.it is the lesser of the 2 enemies that. The perinatalist movement is bound to face it is the kinder of the two enemies we are bound to face. And it is an enemy that when it dies and it will die, because if you look intergenerationally, things like Amish communities, you can look at their like deconversion rates, they've gone down over and over again.Communities that live next to it are getting better and better at defending themselves. And that's one of the reasons it's so pro immigration right now, because the only way it can get new children is by importing them. From, from cultural groups that aren't quite as wary, but even recent immigrant populations are becoming [00:07:00] incredibly wary of it.Like, if you look at the prenatalist movement, many people are surprised at how heavy it is in first generation immigrant families. And it's like, yeah, because they are often the most pronatalist because they are recent immigrants from high fertility areas and they understand the value of their own culture and they want to preserve it and they like the idea.Which is what America told them it was, you know, when America said, come over, it goes, oh, come here. You'll get riches. You know, many different cultures exist alongside each other. And then they get here and they go, okay, well, now that you're here your children are going to have to go to a school where their history and traditions will be erased.They will learn. They are allowed to identify however they want. They can identify as your ancestral culture, but they are not allowed to differ in their beliefs around sexuality, around gender, around morality, around what should be the future of our species, on how we should relate to the environment, on the way you should interact with other religious and cultural traditions.And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I came here because I heard that we could, like, be different and all work together, [00:08:00] while maintaining our differences. And then they look at the perinatalist movement, and they're like, oh, you guys are what America was telling everyone it was.Yeah, let's join that thing. That thing looks like what I signed up for. So, anyway, to the point here, this, this. Enemy is, to some extent, witless when it takes over an organization or a community, it typically makes it very ineffective. We can look at the large companies that have been affected by it. 1 of the things we've pointed out on this show is that once a community adapts racist belief systems economically, it tends to.undercompete its neighbors and undercompete what it did historically. And this is seen in the, the, the virus or the cult communities. Wokeism or in what they call anti racism, it just labels everything the exact opposite of what it is. It's like the, one of the most racist widespread philosophies in the world today.And we will see what we always see with racist [00:09:00] communities, which is a collapse economically of the individuals that hold it. When people say, go woke, get broke, what they are saying is that when you become racist, you end up economically under competing your neighbors whose minds are not blinded by this sort of systemic elitism and prejudice against.Specific cultural group, right? Anyway, so, but who is the other enemy? What is the real enemy that we are terrified of? The real enemy we are terrified of comes from the fact that The two dominant cultural strategies right now for high fertility are disengaging with the economy either preventing your members from working or doing something that lowers the economic potential, like preventing them from getting a traditional education and anything that it decreases an individual's economic Potential is going to increase the fertility of a community.The other thing is to increase restrictions on how your community engages with technology. The more [00:10:00] your community disengages with technology, the higher fertility. And this is true within communities. So you look at like Amish or Mennonite or the general Anabaptist sphere of communities. The ones that are the most disengaging of technology or the highest fertility rate.You're ones that are the most using of technology and fertility rates that are about the same as the English, i. e. people who are not Anabaptists. And this matters because it means that anyone who is trying even a lightened form of one of these cultural strategies, the iterations of their movement that try the most extreme forms of these cultural strategies will outcompete the lighter forms of these cultural strategies unless the lighter forms of these cultural strategies maintain complete cultural isolation.from the more extreme forms of these strategies, which is unlikely because typically the groups practicing the lighter forms of these strategies are these softer cultural groups. This requires some unpacking. Do you want to explain what I just said, Simone?Simone Collins: Repeat your statement just so I make sure I talk about the right circle of things.Malcolm Collins: Okay. What I was saying was, is that incrementally, [00:11:00] any. Collection of groups, like related family of cultures that increases its fertility rate or protects its vitality rate by disengaging with technology or economically crippling its own members the iterations of that culture that do that more extremely.Fertility wise, I'll compete the ones that do it less extreme. Right, right. The problem being is that you could have some intergenerationally stable, yes, lower fertility, but still isolated less extreme version of one of these. The problem being is that the less extreme versions are often soft in cultures, which means that they either bleed out into the main culture or bleed into the more extreme versions.Simone Collins: You said it really well, do you?Malcolm Collins: Okay, I guess I don't need to ask. I just want to get you more engaged so people don't feel like I'm not, I'm not giving you a chance to comment on this. I mean, do you have any comments on what I've said so far?Simone Collins: No I mean, this is just. How we see things playing out, I, I can'tMalcolm Collins: really, obviously true soSimone Collins: far, I think, yeah, it's, [00:12:00] I mean, especially given the data that we've seen both in terms of who we know is still experiencing high birth rates now, and plus we've seen in the history of the human race.having high birth rates in the past. It checks out.Malcolm Collins: The other thing we've seen is a cultural strategy and, and, and likely even a genetic strategy because this does have a genetic link, which is the far right authoritarian personality cluster, which has nothing to do with like right leaning politics is found in left leaning individuals as well.It's what you would see in like an Antifa member or something like that. It just means an extreme tendency to dehumanize people who aren't in your cultural group. And an extreme tendency to prefer extremist hierarchical structures. So this strategy, like xenophobia basically is a winning cultural strategy.That is the one thing I will say for it. It does increase fertility rates.Simone Collins: It's not necessarily like. Crazy evil xenophobia, like we've noticed that in in more diverse nations, birth rates seem to be higher than in really homogenous nations. And these aren't diverse nations that necessarily have huge levels of [00:13:00] intergroup, either culturally or ethnic antagonism, however.There could be some xenophobia that motivates groups to kind of subconsciously feel really excited about kind of representing themselves more. Like maybe there's something that kicks in when you feel like you're surrounded by others that makes you want to grow your own community.Malcolm Collins: That is likely true.However, and I would ask you to, to just search your brain to see if you can think of any counter examples to this. ouTside of East Asian cultures. They are unique and they have different practices. The more xenophobic a cultural group is, the higher their fertility rate is.Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, it seems thatMalcolm Collins: way.Okay. So I'm talking about even extreme xenophobia. So if you're talking about extremely xenophobic culture, they're extremely high fertility. Yeah. Okay. So that means it's a, it's a winning, like it will increase in the future, right? Yeah. For obvious reasons, you know, as we've mentioned again and again It also lowers the economic potential of a community that in the last. 1anyway, the point being is that in many ways [00:14:00] the reason why so racism. One increases fertility on its own, like xenophobia increases fertility on its own, but in addition to that, it also lowers the economic potential of a group, further increasing its fertility in that direction, which means you're getting this cluster of strategies, uh, low economic output, high xenophobia.High technophobia, which cluster together into like one branch of winning cultural strategies, which by far today is the cultural strategy, which is outcompeting all others in terms of fertility, andSimone Collins: I would say that this is accurate. This seems accurate on average, but actually like when I think about Japan, for example, it is, I said, except for East Asian, East Asian.Thank you. Okay. Yeah. With that big exception,Malcolm Collins: we're going to talk about East Asian cultures in a separate video because totally different thing is going to happen over there. Yeah. We just don't need to talk about it right now. Okay. It's going to be equally interesting and a bit harder for us to predict, but both of us have lived in East Asian [00:15:00] countries, so we're going to be, I guess, better at predicting it than other people might be.So. So what this means, and a lot of people look at this and they go, Oh, all of this is code for, uh, Muslims. They're talking about Muslims and no, there are Jewish groups and there are Christian groups and there are even Buddhist groups that are. You know, a highly xenophobic and technophobic and, and murdery, I guess I'd call them.And that's another thing about this cultural cluster, is they have a practice which makes them axiomatically impossible to ever integrate with the pro natalist agenda, which is that they believe Often, this is very common within these cultural traditions but it's not true amongst all of them. Like, it's not true amongst the Amish, which would be very good allies to the pro natalist movement, which we can talk about later.But a lot of them believe that at the end of the day there's just going to be one religion, Often one [00:16:00] ethnicity and one culture in the world and some of them will just say one religion, one culture in the world. That's it. There can only be one as we say, they are highlandering it. So in the short term, they work as allies with us because we have the same enemy, which is the urban monoculture.But in the long term, they will be at odds with us and all of the other, we would call them symbiotic cultural groups, which do not believe it is their job to wipe out all other cultures in the world. And there are various levels of potential allegiance. There are some cultures which say they eventually want to wipe out all other cultures in the world, but they just don't ever seem to act on it, or they don't seem to be able to motivate action on it.You're right anymore. And so they are safe ish to work with in the short term. There are cultures that, um, we'll say, okay, but we can work with with other groups because we are such a minority right now. [00:17:00] And we will only become dangerous when we become the majority. And so you need to keep an eye on those groups.But again, this isn't a 1 religious thing. You know, there are. Examples of Buddhist cultures, Jewish cultures, Christian cultures, Muslim cultures that fall into this category, and there are iterations of all of those traditions, which are able to be genuinely pluralistic, or at least sort of detente pluralistic, meaning that...Right, right. For now. And this is important, because a lot of people, they're not aware, like, they don't know about like the... The really bloody, like, Buddhist revolts in places like Sri Lanka and stuff like that. And like, they don't know, you know, if you look at the perennialist movement, we actually have a lot not a lot, but I'd say a number of Muslim cultural groups that are allied with the movement.Most of them are African immigrant populations that are not, and you might ask, well, why are they not as, because they have sort of more of a. A, I guess I call it a tribalistic mindset that is okay with intergenerational alliances with people who are different from them which is [00:18:00] not true, which of, of some other Muslim cultural groups which are just, you know, like, like some Christian cultural groups, there can only be one.And one of the interesting things when we talk about the two enemies is some. Christian cultural groups think that they're signaling, I especially see this with some groups of, of, of tradcasts and stuff like that, how like cool they are by saying there can only be one to like other pro natalists in like a, a multicultural pro natalist environment.Like they'll, they'll be going to like the natalist conference that we're going to. And it's like, look, this is a conference being put together by Mormon separatists. The, the, the Desnat Mormons are the people who are putting it together and we are. You know, technophilic, like, secular Calvinist, you were saying to the two people who are, like, the most dominant individuals within this cultural context, we plan to kill you one day, hey, let's come together and all work out, or deconvert your children, or, you know, whatever these individuals are, obviously, You're like [00:19:00] that individual in a D& D group that is all aligned good and you're like the one aligned evil person and they're like, obviously working with you in the short run, but in the long run, you are very obviously a threat and they are aware of that and they are planning for that which is, you know, I, yeah.I thank God that they are so witless right now. I suspect that some of the individuals who claim to be interested in multicultural pluralism are just smarter iterations of them that know to not loudly broadcast it all the time and only talk about it privately behind closed doors. And at the very least, I can appreciate their shrewdness.Simone Collins: I don't know. To me, there's something very gentlemanly about it. Like it reminds me of some, you know, historical action novels where, you know, you have two enemies who respect each other as rivals and are like, well, I'm going to try to destroy you, but I, you know, I admire your form and, you know, like for a moment they may come together to fight some impediment to their larger shared battle.I don't know. So I, you can also look at it in aMalcolm Collins: [00:20:00] more, yeah. Well, and I think where this question is going to become more interesting to us is what happens when one of these dominating cultural groups is also attempting a technophilic strategy. Right. Currently, none of them are. Not a single one of them is a technophilic.Simone Collins: Oh, yeah, right. I mean, we'd hardly be dominant, but we are veryMalcolm Collins: technophilic. But yeah, we're not dominating, but we're technophilic. If you look at the other technophilic cultural groups they typically are not. Dominating its cultural strategiesSimone Collins: Well, I mean, you, you, the, the, the cult, essentially, the, the woke virus riddled cult that runs society now is both dominating and technophilic, but because it's low fertility, Yeah, it isMalcolm Collins: both dominating and technophilic.That is a good point. It is an example of a dominating technophilic cultural group.Simone Collins: The only reason we don't take it very seriously is we, we understand that most other cultures that it uses to get fodder, to get human capital, will eventually become resistant to it, so we don't think it has long termMalcolm Collins: potential.And so, essentially, the true enemy of the pronatalist cause, [00:21:00] not the immediate enemy, which is the urban monoculture, which we sort of see like the God Emperor of Dune, the, the threat that brings us all together, or if you've seen Code Geass, the emperor that, that acts fascist at the end to bring everyone together of different, different, Cultural groups to finally put aside their, their differences so that they can intergenerationally work together. That is what it is serving us. It is serving as a very simplistic villain for us right now, a villain on easy mode that is meant to prepare us for the true danger, which comes after us, which it is to a large extent protecting us from, which is a world full of. technophobic, aggressive, ultra religious extremists that want everyone who's not them dead.And in the other video, similar to this, we talked about sort of a network of haven states. These are small technophilic cultural groups, which are [00:22:00] communicating with each other, trading with each other and that work together and that respect their, their cultural differences and are working to bring back civilization after we enter this next dark age.And that is sort of the, now we can try to predict what that network is going to look like. Who are going to be the important players in it. But it's difficult right now. If I, as an outsider was going to say who is obviously going to be the biggest player in it, Israel, Israel is just obviously going to be theSimone Collins: biggest.Israel, maybe some of the transhumanist Mormons.Malcolm Collins: That's more speculative and even Israel speculative. So Israel would be, and that it is already.Simone Collins: It's already technophilic. It's already happening. Well, I guess, but the highest growing populations within Israel are not technophilic, right? Yeah, they're technophobic populations.So that's the problem. Yeah.Malcolm Collins: And so Israel might be, if it can develop a technophilic iteration of the traditions which are growing really quickly within it. And I believe it [00:23:00] can and I believe the key to doing that is going to be a righty group that embrace genetic selection technology. I think that's really going to be the thing that throws some of them over the edge.But it's difficult and you can look at our video on, we have a video where we explain Jewish sort of cultural evolution. It's very different than other cultural groups. It's very bottom up, i. e. Well, it's better than the video that we talk about it in. I don't want to go deep into it in this one.So it's possible that something evolves, but it won't look exactly like any of the dominant cultural traditions within Israel right now. But I, I do think it is the biggest likelihood to be sort of the, the beating heart of the nexus of haven states. It could fall to technophobic. Extremists, just as much asSimone Collins: anyone else.Yeah, but that, to your point, if a Haraidi group did get super technical, like at least when it came to Reprotech, they would clean up. I mean...Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they're already, as a, as a [00:24:00] sort of center for Haven states, have the industrial capability to produce advanced weaponry, which will be one of the things that is most necessary among the other Haven states.Right. Things like Iron Dome technology and stuff like that would be very, very relevant wherever you are, whichever Haven state you're in. So it would already like, it's already culturally specializing in the types of exports that are most relevant in this future that we're heading into. Which a lot of people are like, Oh, why do you guys?Simp for Jewish cultural groups so much on your show. It's not just because like, we think they're doing the right thing. It's because we would be stupid and anyone who is sort of declaring war on them right now in their, in their what's the word I'm looking for in their broadcast is just being incredibly stupid because then who, who do you ally with in the future?yoU know,Simone Collins: Who are you going to buy your tech from? Who are you going [00:25:00] to turn to for protection andMalcolm Collins: solutions? Yeah now what could happen, and this is actually really possible, is some of the Muslim cultural groups that have a ton of money right now could set themselves up like the UAE or Saudi Arabia, and they are very intentional and very specific about how they do this as technophilic elite organizations that oversee a non, a larger non technophilic population That could happen, and those could become really useful groups to buy technology from I could see that happening, but they have to play their cards very, very intelligently, and in truth, of all of the Muslim populations, those are the least directly anti Semitic, the high technology ones, like the ones in the ones in Qatar or the ones in Saudi Arabia. So even then, you know, you're likely not really shooting yourself in the foot by allying with Jewish cultural groups in this, [00:26:00] this future. Right.Simone Collins: Well, but I also, I don't think people. are expressing anti Semitic views because they, you know, don't expect to ally with, and no one's thinking long term like this.They're just being reactionary. So it doesn't even matter. You know, it's not like they're like, oh, well, the Saudis are going to be the ones I'm going to need to partner with in the long term future. No one thinks in the long term future. You're like one of the few thing, like people in the, in the world thinking aboutMalcolm Collins: this stuff.Well, I'm trying to think of other cultural groups. As you said, I think the Mormons, I do not think the Mormon transhumanists would be a relevant group. I think the Mormon separatists would be a relevant group. So I thinkSimone Collins: it does have potential. Yeah, that's for sure. Doesn'tMalcolm Collins: that's for sure they have potential, not necessarily, but they have potential.Simone Collins: Well, here's the thing though. So like the whole point of why I think desert nationalists have a lot of potential is they represent an attempt to return to hard Mormon religion and basically, you know, you're going to look at hard versus soft. Hard is going to be more [00:27:00] pronatalist. It's going to last longer.It's going to stay more disciplined. It's going to be Less subject to the harms of soft culture, that is to say, like failing mental health, failing physical health, etc. So like, I don't know, it seems pretty straightforward to me, unless they go off the rails with a bunch of weird stuff and go soft in their own way.Well,Malcolm Collins: yeah, and I think that the tradcasts are also likely, there is some iteration of tradcasts that will stay. Intergenerationally, like, alliable with but of all the cultural groups, they are the one to most likely go around and being like, we plan to kill all our allies one day. And it's like, maybe stop saying that, even if you believe it, you probably want to be at least, I guess I'm just, I like that you see it as like a gentlemanly thing, but, yeah, it's, it's not a a great long term strategy, but there are iterations of that movement because of all the movements. It's 1 of the most likely to be intergenerationally liable ways. And then there's other cultural groups that just like. I guess, like, [00:28:00] theologically and culturally seem like they should be dominating cultural groups, they just aren't.Like, we recently got back from being around British individuals, and they are very clearly... I think a Hindi cultural group is definitely going to be one of the major players in the future. They are... Dominating or symbiotic? dominating. Yeah. They, they are a non dominating, very likely to take technophilic strategies, higher fertility than most other technophilic cultural groups.Totally. Now, they are lower fertility than groups that take technophobic strategies, that is true. But among the technophilic cultural groups, they're one of the highest fertility. And, and they are a very good group to signal alliances with. Yeah. So I'm trying to think, what other groups do I know?I Guess the next thing to talk about is what ends up happening to East Asia. Well,Simone Collins: yeah, I mean, I would, I would wonder if there, like when I was in Japan, there were some Colt is going to doMalcolm Collins: a different video in East Asia to talk aboutSimone Collins: theMalcolm Collins: technophilic, like what happens during the collapse cycle in East [00:29:00] Asia.Okay. Because it's not worth talking about in this, this video. But yeah, so this is what the pronatalist movement is really all about. It is about taking this period of safety to build inter community and inter cultural connections in ways of working with each other to. Protect our descendants from the, basically the religious extremists who want to kill them all.The xenophobic, technophobic, economically unproductive religious extremists who will make up the majority of the future world's population. And they won't be from any one religious group. They will be from, All cultural groups, there will be factions of them from all cultural groups, because it is a successful strategy, no matter what cultural group you're from, and there are potentials for technophilic strategies, no matter what cultural group you're from, and it is worth it for the technophilic pluralistic groups to ally together to attempt to [00:30:00] preserve what we think of as sort of pluralistic human civilization.What are your thoughts, Simone?Simone Collins: People probably may hear this and think that it sounds outlandish and sci fi and... But just look at, look at how things have played out in history and, and look at the trends and I, you know, we, we challenge you to come up with some other theory that seems more reasonable and predictive. So just because something sounds weird.And just because something sounds very, very different doesn't mean that that's. It's never going to happen, or it's relegatedMalcolm Collins: to fiction. Yep. Things have changed before. And a lot of people think that they're like, Oh, well, all of your predictions are requisite on demographic collapse, causing an economic collapse of our, of our current economic system, but AI could save us.And as we've mentioned before. No, a I freeze the bourgeoisie from the proletariat permanently. They don't need you anymore, and it is not worth it for them. As we have seen in places where [00:31:00] collapses already started, like South Africa, the wealthy are not like giving their money out to the masses to you.Placate them anymore. That made sense in a past global system where there was a large middle class when the middle class begins to dissolve. It is more economically efficient for the wealthy to not pay for things like UBI, but instead put all of their money into defending their compounds and their own way of life.And that is going to lead to an economic collapse, even if we are dealing with ec for the vast majority of people in the world, even if we are And I don'tSimone Collins: think that's, that's through any lack of attempt to first try to make UBI work, but you also have to look at how right now, non billionaires regard the philanthropic work of billionaires.Yes. Whenever billionaires basically try to fix things or try to make things better, it's always, how dare you, you're doing this wrong. You know, the nerve of you're trying to come and intervene or, or, you know, affect our lives. Basically every time a billionaire tries to make things better, [00:32:00] especially for people in a more developed society, they get, they get completely demonized for it.So I think after a while and especially when it comes to like, sort of will billionaires survive or not surviving billionaires and billionaires who actually get more out of life are going to be the ones who fortify their own defenses. Partially because the very people that. Could really benefit from their patronage are going to Basically, you know, alienateMalcolm Collins: themselves from them.Well, I also think that, that billionaires, so there's sort of two paths for billionaires and we've already seen this one. What, well, three paths. One is they will try to ingratiate themselves with the current cult or virus or whatever you want to say. And they end up just getting disregarded by the public and hated examples of this would be like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates two is they end up, just indolently living their lives as well, see as possible and sort of data compounds and they won't end up mattering in the future. And 3 is they when was this? They might like, create compounds that matter for [00:33:00] a generation or 2, but they're really personality cults. And these will ultimately collapse and then the final 1 is to alive themselves with an intergenerationally durable cultural group, whether it's like ours or tried to cast or something else, and they will exist in the future. And I, I think that that is going to be the winning strategy for billionaires going forwards is what it was historically, which is to ally yourself with one of the religious and cultural traditions of the world. And obviously if you want to have the biggest outside impact, you typically want to focus on a very competent and small one like ours.Simone Collins: Yeah,Malcolm Collins: just, just saying if anyone in the room is thinking here. Love you, Simone. This was great. And let's do the next one on East Asia. What happens there? Excited for that. Get full access to Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm at basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

They discuss the concept of a network empire and its distinction from a network state. They explore the future of humanity, address accusations of being techno-futurists, and highlight the inevitability of techno-feudalism. They discuss collapsed infrastructure in developed countries and the impact on essential services. They explore fortified communities, organized crime, and high fertility rates. They examine how technology influences economic and cultural potential. They discuss network states, network empires, and the challenges of wide-scale economic collapse.

We discuss strategies for starting your own company, from high-risk VC-backed startups to acquiring existing small businesses. We cover different funding options like venture capital, SBA loans, and getting investments from people who believe in you. Advice is tailored based on intelligence level. We also warn about the risks of demanding a higher salary without increasing your value to the company.[00:00:00]Simone Collins: Yeah. I, I'm thinking more about like, you know, bridge loans or whatever, like loans for growth once you do acquire. I don'tMalcolm Collins: have access to that. Yeah. I get that. Advice to normal people.Simone Collins: Okay. Anyway. Yes. As being loans are, are great and they do provide a lot of opportunity.Malcolm Collins: However. Let's. Let's go into what I would suggest is the number one way that, that I would look at creating a company.If I was an average milling to above middling intelligence person living in the U SWould you like to know more?Simone Collins: So Malcolm, there's a person in our family who would really, really love, loves money. And definitely encourages us to make money. And whenever she's been unhappy with how much money we're making, her advice is always just tell them to pay you more.Malcolm Collins: Which is my mom who's not with us anymore, but she would always do this.Just be like, I'd be like, Oh, I'm making this much. And she goes, that's not enough for you. You just need to tell them to pay you more. And I was like, I'll get fired if I do that. You [00:01:00] know that, right? Yeah. She goes, you just need to be firm. And I think so many older generations are this way. This isn't like, just go and, and bang on doors at offices until you get hired. But one of the things, you know, if you look at online influencers and stuff like that, sort of the place they always end up, whether you're talking about girl defined or Andrew Tate or even Trump is trying to teach people how to make money. And they'll create these little universities for me because it's true.You know, if you're building your own little community, you know, one of the things that's easiest to promise them is financial independence and wealth. So you promise them that you get them to waste money on that. And, and it ends up, you know, some, I think some of it is pretty good. So you look at like hustle university and stuff like that, like what Andrew Tate is doing and some of the other ones it's reasonable.He has to figure out how to tell idiots how, like, because, and I'm not saying that he disproportionately attracts idiots. I'm saying if your reach is wide enough, no matter who you are, a huge [00:02:00] chunk of that is going, the majority of that is going to be idiots. It has the same, because you know how dumb the average person is?Well, half of them are dumber than that. Exactly. You've got to be selling them all sorts of stuff like... Dropshipping and stuff like that. Like ideas that anyone can focus on. But theSimone Collins: great thing about what he's doing that I really respect is most people who I see online who are selling these kinds of programs, they're like sort of pyramid schemes and they're based around coaching.Like I'm a coach, you be a coach, you make money like me, blah, blah, blah.Malcolm Collins: And it doesn't really work.Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, she's one of like a million. What I like about what Andrew Tate is doing is he's giving people very concrete, very practical, often like very unromantic, you know, they're, they're not sexy.They're not about becoming a famous, beautiful coach that everyone wants to follow. You know, it's, it's about copywriting. It's about dropshipping. Like you said, it's about opening an online shop. It's about very like straightforward stuff that most people could do. And for which. With the exception of copywriting there is demand and, you know, I don't think AI was ballooning when he first [00:03:00] started this copywriting course.So I do admire. what Andrew Tate is doing with that. But you're absolutely right. That, that is what you typically see when some influencer tries to start teaching their audience to make money.Malcolm Collins: I mean, I want to start by being clear that I actually think that he is probably the most honest in terms of what he's promising people of all of the people I have seen do this.Yeah. So good on him. But we're going to do something a little different because you know, I have my MBA from Stanford, right? Like I am in terms of making money probably one of the most educated types of people there, there are, you know, Simone got her degree from Cambridge and technology policy and we have done something that gave us a huge insight that normal people don't have, which is called a search fund.So not only did we learn how to raise money from investors, like we've done venture capital, both of us have worked in venture capital, so we know that whole industry but we went out there and we had to find a company to buy. So we were emailing, you know, thousands of company CEOs every week interviewing.I think [00:04:00] you got an average of 80 interviews a week, finding out how, and you did this for about two years, finding out how just hundreds if not thousands of companies worked inside and out, how they were built, everything like that, which gave you an, and these are normal companies. These are not like VC companies.So the first thing I would say to people interested. is if you are uniquely intellectually gifted. So I'm going to like break this into categories. And if you're okay with high risk, high reward opportunities, go to Silicon Valley, go live in a hacker house meet the VCs, start, you know, get working on startups, uh, go that route.You can even go the VC route. You just have to be very ambitious, very hardworking. And, and know that you are very intelligent and I mean, actually wellSimone Collins: networked. You have to be well networked to get the deal flow. You need to actually find. No, you don't need to beMalcolm Collins: well networked. You become well networked.You have to be able to become well networked. Oh, sure.Simone Collins: Yeah. You have to have the potential for sure. Yeah. You don't haveMalcolm Collins: to start out that way. The network you go into Silicon Valley with is pretty irrelevant.Yeah,Simone Collins: that's totally true. As long as you're [00:05:00] able to build it.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, you have to live in Silicon Valley, which is a shithole right now, but and there's a few other places you can do this out of.You can do this out of Singapore. You can do this out of London, maybe. But that's really it. Maybe, maybe, there's some other places. No, I've looked at the ecosystems for doing VC in other countries. And it's just really bad. They almost never end up with economic successes. We can go deep into why this is.Actually you are better off at having a big success in a country that is smaller than a country with a medium sized economy. So like if you're in Korea or Japan or Germany, you're much less likely to have a huge economic success starting like a startup style company than you would in a country like, norway or Finland or Sweden or Estonia. So keep that in mind or Singapore for that matter.Simone Collins: And the reason why just to give a little bit of color there for Malcolm's hypothesis is that nations that are so small basically have to start out being global, which basically means that you'll discover if you can have global [00:06:00] Range and global market potential very quickly.Whereas when you're in a medium market where you could sell a lot domestically like Germany, like, like South Korea, you could basically get stuck in the trap of selling and specializing for your local market, which ultimately has a very limited ceiling. And so people kind of get stuck in that.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and, and, and then, you know, companies that do well like Kakao and South Korea, they begin to grow inwards on themselves with stuff like, you know, Kakao Uber basically, Kakao Talk, Kakao, you know, Kakao App Store.Okay, so anyway, um, I'm going to take a quick moment here to describe the different types of capital because this is important to know about if you're thinking about starting a company. So we just talked about one core category, which is if you just have enormous faith in yourself and you're young and you have, educated yourself to some extent.And I mean, you need to be like actually highly educated. I have talked to our fan base. I know a lot of them are of this smart category but the people in this ecosystem will ferret you out very quickly if you aren't highly educated. And I don't mean [00:07:00] in a university context, I just mean that you've taught yourself and hopefully when we build our school system and we release it like Q1 this next year or Q2 this next year, it would get you there if you completed it.Simone Collins: But anyway. Well, and I do really want to emphasize that like Especially in Silicon Valley. Thank goodness. This is not one of those worlds where you really do need credentials and, and many VCs really, really just care about merit. So this is one of those few places where educated actually means what Malcolm is saying, like literally knowing your s**t, not having a piece of paper that doesn't matter.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and having social competence. We've seen a few people pitch to VCs and they like lack basic social competence and they come off as crazy. No, don't come off as crazy to VCs. That will not help you. I, I, If you have a problem with coming off as crazy to people, this is not the route for you. We will go over routes that could work for you.This is not one of them. Coming off as crazy to people means that you are low Like emotional IQ, you just can't read people very well and that's going to cause problems. If you're autistic, and that's why you're, that's totally different. VCs love that. Yeah. But if you are on the schizoid side, which.[00:08:00]Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, because I mean, like a little bit on the schizoid side and you're really good at modeling people, but we know a lot of people who are both extremely smart, but too far. And then they don't know boundaries. You pass some kind of weird threshold where suddenly you stop being able to modelMalcolm Collins: people.Great. Okay. So yes. So with venture capital on average, even if you're looking at the best firms, they make their money on one of every 13 deals, which means that they cannot invest in companies that will do middlingly well. Okay. Even if it's going to be like a 500 million company, that is still a failure in many VC eyes.Right? So if you're coming to VCs, we never come to VCs was like a chain of, uh, companies that do like laundry. Right? That own physical locations, for example. Because a lot of the investment there is going to be in real estate and stuff like that.Simone Collins: When the margins just are never going to be that insanelyMalcolm Collins: thick, right?Well, it requires a lot of you know, what it's called CapEx, you know, ownership of property. So you would never with VCs do a construction [00:09:00] company. You would never with VCs do a real estate company. Basically they need to invest in something that is very low CapEx, which basically only software is, and a few other like weird business models where like the CapEx is owned by like a different model.Yeah. AndSimone Collins: before, you know, our commenters were like, Oh, but we work, I mean, look at how that's played out for them. So,Malcolm Collins: so that was a huge mistake because they ignored the core way to do VC. Right. All right. So, next the next source of capital is going to be the source of capital that I would recommend for most people.Who wants to start something with a high probability of working a high probability of providing them independence and lower costs to get into, which is what I would call search Fundy type companies, right? And these are companies that you can get into with debt. So debt can be bank debt, right?Which is actually pretty cheap for an individual to obtain. And by that, well,Simone Collins: especially if, if you, if you get it through. So first a little bit of, of, of color search funds also known as entrepreneurship through [00:10:00] acquisition involves acquiring an existing company that is already performing well, typically from someone who's looking to retire and sell that company because they don't have a son or daughter to pass it onto for whatever reason.So these are often companies that. Really small mom and pop businesses. Very practical. This is where you are going to see dry cleaning businesses and dental offices and mosquito remediation companies and all things like that. And why the debt can be uniquely low is because this is not just bank loans that you're getting.You could be getting SBA loans and most people who do, yeah, so small business association in the United States. So this doesn't necessarily apply to every nation. The other nations may have similar loan programs to this. Are available to small business owners to do all sorts of things, but in indeed to also sort of put leverage on businesses that they acquire.So what many individual searchers do to become entrepreneurs through acquisition by acquiring one of these small businesses is they use some of their money to acquire the business in the form of equity, SBA loan. To cover the rest of the acquisition cost. [00:11:00] And they may do some, what's called seller financing with the person basically saying, okay, well, I will pay you this much upfront with a combination of my money and debt, but then I will also pay you this other amount from the profit that I get from the business after I acquireMalcolm Collins: it.So let's talk about the two ways that you can go about doing this, right? Because you're talking about one way, what I actually probably wouldn't recommend to most people, because it's, it's a little bit more sophisticated to acquire an existing company. But if you want to, you know, and you're coming in with some, you know, maybe some money you inherited or something, let's say you've inherited like 200 K or 250 K.And then on top of that, you're putting that down. You can talk to a bank, you know, if you don't have a criminal history or something, get some debt. And that can get you into a company for like 500k, right? If you buy a company at around that range, This can be a company that is earning let's say, you know, when you're buying these really small companies, you can buy them at like 1x EBITDA or like 2x EBITDA or like EBITDA isSimone Collins: roughly the profit of the business.Malcolm Collins: Basically, it means that if you own this company, you would be [00:12:00] bringing in about 250k a year yourself. Because other people don't want companies that small, like private equity funds don't want them, so they sell for really low multiples. And then you can do something called a roll up. You know, you take that money, you set it aside for a couple of years and you buy other companies in the same space.And banks are going to be even more trusting of you then because they're like, Oh, you've run a company like this before. But let's talk about why SBA loans are so useful if you do not come from an economically advantaged position, defaulting on a bank loan. A lot of people are like, Oh, this is terrible.Like what if I buy a company and it fails? Right? If you get an SBA loan and you buy a company and it fails, then you go into bankruptcy. That will hurt your ability to get credit for about like five or six years, but it eventually clears out of your, your record, especially if it wasn't your fault. And then you can do it again, basically.Not necessarily with an SBA loan, with another type of loan or something like that, but as long as there wasn't criminal or anything like that, and what this means is that if you, Don't have a lot of money to you. You have access to a way to get money, or if you're willing to put down all of the money you have [00:13:00] on a deal, and then you can take an SBA loan on top of that to get capital, that's actually not available to people who have assets.They have to worry about.Simone Collins: Warn people that SBA loans are personally guaranteed. So one thing that we would say about this form of what a personalMalcolm Collins: guarantee isSimone Collins: a personal guarantee means that you are on the line when it comes to like basically collateral. Like, you know,Malcolm Collins: your company can't go bankrupt.You personally personallySimone Collins: get out of it. This is on you. It's not on like the company now with normal like bank debt, like our, our, our travel business that we acquired through the entrepreneurship through acquisition model has debt. Okay. But we are not on the hook. Basically, like if, if somehow our, our company could no longer pay this debt then maybe our companyMalcolm Collins: would go bankrupt.To get that, you basically need an MBA from Stanford or Harvard.Simone Collins: Or you need to have basically a long history of audited financials for your company that sort of show that it has, you know, or, or you need to [00:14:00] have a company that has like a lot of real estate assets. So basically if, if a business. No,Malcolm Collins: Simone, really, it is very hard to get that.I think it is unrealistic in what you're telling people. And it's not a path I would go down.Simone Collins: No. If you own real estate, that a bank feels sufficiently confident would cover their, their loan. YourMalcolm Collins: real estate, not their real estate. They could sell their real estate separately. So that's not going to help you in the, the transaction.Simone Collins: All I'm saying is when we applied for debt, Malcolm, as a company. No, that isMalcolm Collins: true. But think logically about what you're saying. Okay. If I'm acquiring, for example, let's say a company that does like salting roads or something like that, and they have a bunch of real estate included in the price of the company is going to be all the real estate.So I can take out debt. You know, against that asset, the real estate that's included with the company, but that debt won't exceed the real estate that's included with the company and will be less than it'll be like 80 percent of it. So then where am I getting the rest of the money to buy that company? I either need to be [00:15:00] independently wealthy, or I would need to get a personally backed loan on top of the loan that is covered by the real estate the company already has.Point of clarification here. This isn't obvious to listeners. But a company's value is going to be its real estate and hard assets value. Plus the value of a multiple on its EBITDA. I E how much cash it's pulling in every year. So the value of the company is always going to be higher than the value of the real estate.I mean, unless you're in some weird situation, uh, it's just worth noting in terms of how you value companies. If this video does well, we could go into this stuff in a lot more detail, like how to evaluate companies and. Where to find companies to buyet ceteraMalcolm Collins: Yeah.Simone Collins: Yeah. I, I'm thinking more about like, you know, bridge loans or whatever, like loans for growth once you do acquire. I don'tMalcolm Collins: have access to that. Yeah. I get that. Advice to normal people.Simone Collins: Okay. Anyway. Yes. As being loans are, are great and they do provide a lot of opportunity.Malcolm Collins: However. Let's. Let's go into what I would suggest is the [00:16:00] number one way that, that I would look at creating a company.If I was an average milling to above middling intelligence person living in the U S right. Or really anywhere is I would first look at search fundy type companies. So look at sites like deal stream and stuff like that. See the time of companies that are selling talk with people who run these small companies.Understand how they work, get a feel of the landscape that's out there right now. Then start a company that is like one of these companies that you have some understanding of. So this could be like road salt can be, maybe you have a dental degree yourself and you start your own digital practiceSimone Collins: or dental offices Food packaging some like light production, all sorts of weird things. or like also vendingMalcolm Collins: machines.I would not suggest vending machines are almost an MLM. Oh, sorry. I should also mention, don't do an MLM. It's stupid. You will, you will lose. Any [00:17:00] company, I'll, I'll word this differently. Any company where somebody is getting a financial kickback for getting you involved with the company, don't do that company.That's a bad idea.Okay, up here. I would make one thing direct sales companies are okay. If you are below average intelligence, it is probably the best earning potential you're going to have. If you are high aggression, high sociability, below average intelligence or average to slightly above average intelligence, direct selling is a great opportunity for you.And you really shouldn't be undersold. But direct selling is not MLM. Okay. That is very different. Okay. In direct selling. The person who recruits you is not getting a portion of your profits.Simone Collins: Okay. So that's key. I guess that's, that's the key thing to look for is, is, is there some kind of like upstream pyramid goingMalcolm Collins: on?So what I'm saying is the number one way that I would suggest making money is go out there. Understand the type of companies that are like these boring, simplistic companies. You really probably want to focus on one that's very low cap X. That means, you know, like you wouldn't want to get into construction because that requires a lot of construction equipment. [00:18:00] It, one that we're actually experimenting with right now is landscaping. We're helping a friend of ours get into the industry. It's a low capex industry and we're, you know, giving them the money up front to do that. And, and with these sorts of Industries, you, you might be surprised the type of people who will invest in you to do this because it can be a very easy investment for, for fairly low amounts of money, you know, if you're looking for, let's say under 30 K for something like this and you're going to your friends like, okay, I need a certain type of truck.I need a snowplow. I need an et cetera. One, you can give them ownership of those assets and to just say, okay, I'll pay you like. 10 percent for the rest of this business's life cycle. And if they know that you're a hard worker, who's like not flaky and has some experience in the industry, it's actually a fairly easy financial investment for them.As this is, even if you can't get like an SBA loan because you have a criminal history or something, as long as you have people who believe in you often within your cultural group, you know, this is a strategy you can use. And if you're like, I have nobody who believes in me, then like, maybe you should think about like why that is.beCause [00:19:00] before you do anything like this. Right. Any of these ideas that we're talking about, you do need to work the grind. You do need to go to an office or work for a landscaping company or work for a something like that to begin to understand how the world actually works and build up enough cash deposits so that you can try for the type of things that will make you a lot of money.But I would focus on things that the environment around you actually need. Now, a final thing, if you're going to talk about hard mode, but they can make a lot of money is look at local RFPs.Simone Collins: These are, those are requests for proposal. These are basically most local governments, at least in the United States are obligated to go through a formal procurement process whereby they publicly post an advertisement essentially for a service or products that they need.This could be anything from lead remediation education for a certain neighborhood to landscaping services to computer supplies forMalcolm Collins: a school. Yeah. So, you, you can see that understand in work your way towards these positions. So if you're starting one of these companies, you know, if it [00:20:00] can be a wounded veteran owned or a disadvantaged minority woman owned, you know, you can get advantages.So here are places to go. If you have a I don't want to say unfair. I mean, obviously, whatever, however you want to see it, special treatment, special treatment. Yeah. That can be a strategy to go down, but it's, it's significantly more like advanced. I might even do like a, like look into specifically how you do this and how you get to that stage with one of these companies because you're going to want to be able to get customers outside of the RFPs before you get the RFPs.Which can take a while to win. Sort of theSimone Collins: secret to winning RFPs is before they ever even get posted. You are speaking with that government office, with that university, with that, whatever it may be.Malcolm Collins: No, this is what people say. I think that's a lie.Simone Collins: Business just won an RFP. You know why? Because we basically made sure that we were going to win it ahead of time.No, I'm not kidding you. So like during the final bidding [00:21:00] process, came back to us and they're like, all you have to do is lower your price to this and you're going to win it. And then we did, and we just won it. So sorry. Are youMalcolm Collins: allowed to say that? Do I need to cut part of this?Simone Collins: I think it's okay.I'm not naming the climate. Like, sorry, I'm not naming the client. Here'sMalcolm Collins: what I would say next. Because this is actually a final thing that's important to note. As a lot of people will be like, well, I have this skill, right? What I'm going to do is I'm going to start a business around this skill.Like I'm good at consulting in this area, or I'm good at. Oh my god, like, don't do something like making jewelry or fashion, like, that will, I'm making jewelry now. She's making jewelry now She's got her own website She crafts each piece by hand The dining room table is mine andmaking jewelry. She got her life.Simone Collins: Well, unless you have, like, 5 million followers, in which case, totally, start your tequila brand, start your jewelry. In which case, you'reMalcolm Collins: just milking followers.But let's, let's, sorry, I gotta, I gotta be clear [00:22:00] here. The reason not to do this is because then your business isn't sellable. And it's something to keep in mind is that your, is your business sellable. So if your business is like non differentiated, like if you have a landscaping company and you have a bunch of people working for you, you can sell that, right?Like, and you can sell that after only like building it out for like three years and then have like 10 million to your name or something, right. Pretty easily. But you know, if you've grown it to any extent and we can talk about how to do that, but. If you're doing something where you are the key player, right, it's never going to be sellable.Like if I'm doing a consulting business or a, a, a law business where I am the key player, well, no one's going to want to buy you for that. But like a consulting business over some area that I have some specialty, I'm never going to be able to sell that because I am the key person in thatSimone Collins: business. It is referred to as key man risk.And like sometimes even like, even if you have really important salespeople, it will scare. It will scare people who are looking to buy. Cause they're like, man, so much of this business depends on this one person. That's a little bit too risky. Can I close with just returning to your [00:23:00] mother's statement of just ask for more money?Malcolm Collins: Hold on before we close. There's one more thing I need to say about key man risk. If you are going into one of these businesses, like if you have some skill set and you're like, I think I could do this on my own, which you're really going to need to learn. It's how to do math, cold outreach. And that is for a separate video or for something to you explore on your own.But if you're like, I have this skillset and I don't understand how my company gets all these clients can learn how to build a sales pipeline. That could be another video for us and how to do math, cold outreach.Simone Collins: Well, just like with finding a partner, right? You, you, you're not going to just. You know, approach five people and find your wife.So as I was saying we've been advised to just ask for more money. Now an employee can do this 100 percent and also like key employees can do this and, and pretty consistently get higher wages. There's a risk to this that I think a lot of people don't consider. And so I just want to end with this one warning in terms of the just ask for more.If someone does end up paying you more, if your boss pays you more the more salary you end up making, the more it means that you're going to be the first person on the chopping [00:24:00] block when, you know, your, your business goes through some kind of hard point because they're going to look at, okay. Who right now is costing me the very most, you know, what, what is the most expensive thing I can cut?And so if you are not making that is like literally provably bringing in more money than you are costing, the more money that you demand, the more you put yourself at risk for being fired. So I just wanted to end with that because it's so YouMalcolm Collins: can get that raise in the short term, but you are now on the list to be fired. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of employees, they don't realize when they're asking us, they've come to us and I think they walk away feeling great because they got the raise and they don't understand that now they're on the firedSimone Collins: list.Well, and the most important thing too is you know, people, when they ask for raises, it's often like, Oh, you know, my family, this, or I just had this surgery that, or, you know, whatever, like, Oh, it's just been really hard for me or my rent's really high. The business does not care about your personal life.The business cares about how essential you [00:25:00] are for the business, making money. So you really, when you want to ask for a raise, you need to basically show, demonstrate that you are making more money than you're asking for. And that if they want to keep getting that money from you, that they need to pay you more, but that they're going to make more money from you being there than from you not being there.And none ofMalcolm Collins: this is CEO cruelty or anything like that. Your value to the business is literally what you cost the business. Less than what you make the business, the higher that cushion is, the more job security you have less than that. The more you were milking for the company, but the less job security you have because you are literally worse, less to the company.Simone Collins: So just something to consider because it really astounds us as CEOs, like how little people get that. Like, we're just like, I, you know, I love you and I love your family and I love whatever you like.Malcolm Collins: We never ask our board for raises. We are, we are so underpaid at this point that I think we're basically unfireable because they, we could never be replaced, which is what we [00:26:00] wanted.We wanted job security more than wells. Yeah. Yeah. All right. LoveSimone Collins: you, Simone. Love you too, Malcolm.. Get full access to Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm at basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

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