The Two Enemies of Pronatalism

In this video, we discuss the two enemies of the pronatalist movement - the urban monoculture and the xenophobic, technophobic religious extremists. We talk about how the urban monoculture acts as an "easy mode" villain, uniting high fertility groups, while the real threat is the aggressive, ultra-religious groups who want to eliminate all other cultures. We explore which groups may act as allies in creating pluralistic, technophilic haven states in the future.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] One increases fertility on its own, like xenophobia increases fertility on its own, but in addition to that, it also lowers the economic potential of a group, further increasing its fertility in that direction, which means you're getting this cluster of strategies,, low economic output, high xenophobia.

High technophobia, which cluster together into like one branch of winning cultural strategies, which by far today is the cultural strategy, which is outcompeting all others in terms of fertility, a lot of them believe that at the end of the day there's just going to be one religion, one culture in the world. That's it. There can only be one as we say, they are highlandering it. And so, essentially, the true enemy of the pronatalist cause, not the immediate enemy, the urban monoculture, which is serving as a very simplistic villain for us right now, a villain on easy mode that is meant to prepare us for the true danger, which comes [00:01:00] after us, which it is to a large extent protecting us from, which is a world full of. technophobic, aggressive, ultra religious extremists that want everyone who's not them dead.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone! Hi, gorgeous.

Simone Collins: Too much energy?

Malcolm Collins: Never. So this episode is going to be a bit of a follow up from the last episode, but it's also going to be a standalone. So you can watch these likely in either order. And they're going to touch related to, but divergent concepts.

Simone Collins: And you'll include a link to the first one in case people want in the

Malcolm Collins: description.

Yeah, I could actually do the thing in YouTube where I like tag the first one. Do that, you

Simone Collins: young technophilic person. There's

Malcolm Collins: a little button here right here. This is where it appears and you push the button and it will like open a thing where you can then click and like open it in a different tab to watch after you're done with this one.

[00:02:00] Okay, great. So, with this episode, what we are going to discuss is the two enemies of pronatalism. And so let's talk about sort of what pronatalism is more broadly. It is a movement dedicated to ensuring the preservation of a pluralistic and diverse human species. And people would be like, well, why that?

Why not? Just like increasing birth rates? Because if we do nothing, what's going to happen is we're going to have a crash in human fertility rates. We're going to have a crash in the world economy. Both of which are things that are still going to happen if we do something, but to me, A few groups will come to power and basically erase everyone else.

That's what it looks like is the path that we're going on. We're going on sort of a monoculture of a species where like one or two or maybe three, if we're lucky, if our group That's just completely fails cultural and ethnic groups will be the only things [00:03:00] left of our species and they will wipe out the rest.

And that is absolutely terrifying to us. Because I think that 1 of our greatest strengths is our diversity. And I also think that in this unengaged world. The groups that end up wiping out most of the other groups are going to be quite technophobic, i. e. we are moving back to a dark ages of extremist religious tribalism.

Yep. And that is not great. Not, not, not great at all. And so what we are trying to do is build an alliance of the individuals that are high fertility and do want to exist in the future, and the cultural groups that are high fertility and do want to exist in the future. And this alliance means something.

If you are a culture that is high fertility, Sort of axiomatically, you differentiate significantly from the dominant culture in our society right now. It is a very low fertility cultural group. This is what we call the cult, or the urban monoculture, or the [00:04:00] virus, whatever you want to call it. It is this large culture that exists in pretty much every major city in the world today.

And when we say that, what I mean is, is if I look at the culture in, You know, London versus you know, London versus New York versus Boston, you know, they're all going to be much more similar to each other or Paris more similar to each other than they are to just like, I go a few hours to like, the Amish or like the Hasidic population or something like that.

These high fertility populations, uh, almost definitionally need to differentiate in our culture, the culture, our family practice, it differentiates a lot from the urban monoculture. And what this means is that the first enemy that the pronatalist movement is facing is this urban monoculture. And that is because the urban monoculture being very low fertility can only replenish its ranks by converting the children of nearby demographically healthy cultural groups.

[00:05:00] And those are becoming increasingly rare. So it is becoming increasingly aggressive in these conversion. Policies, um, and these conversion policies are a danger to every single a high fertility cultural group, because those groups, you know, almost the more high fertility they are, the more they differentiate from the cultural group, and the more they are producing something of value to that cultural group, which it wishes to mine in a way that destroys, I mean, we often liken it to cultural genocide, but it's not really traditional cultural genocide, yes, it is driven by a hatred and dehumanization of these cultural groups.

You know, they see them as deplorable and savages as most people do in committing cultural genocide, but it's also a necessary. Genocide. It is a parasitic by design cultural group that cannot survive without, um, cannibalizing its neighbors. And so you can almost think of it like, you [00:06:00] know, it's not that we hate this cultural group, right?

But if you're going to save the fly, you kill the spider. If you save the flies without killing the spider, eventually the spider dies anyway. You know, and so all of us, all of the pronatalist communities are banning together right now to defend ourselves against this one cultural group. And we frame it very much as the enemy important thing to note is 1.

it is the lesser of the 2 enemies that. The perinatalist movement is bound to face it is the kinder of the two enemies we are bound to face. And it is an enemy that when it dies and it will die, because if you look intergenerationally, things like Amish communities, you can look at their like deconversion rates, they've gone down over and over again.

Communities that live next to it are getting better and better at defending themselves. And that's one of the reasons it's so pro immigration right now, because the only way it can get new children is by importing them. From, from cultural groups that aren't quite as wary, but even recent immigrant populations are becoming [00:07:00] incredibly wary of it.

Like, if you look at the prenatalist movement, many people are surprised at how heavy it is in first generation immigrant families. And it's like, yeah, because they are often the most pronatalist because they are recent immigrants from high fertility areas and they understand the value of their own culture and they want to preserve it and they like the idea.

Which is what America told them it was, you know, when America said, come over, it goes, oh, come here. You'll get riches. You know, many different cultures exist alongside each other. And then they get here and they go, okay, well, now that you're here your children are going to have to go to a school where their history and traditions will be erased.

They will learn. They are allowed to identify however they want. They can identify as your ancestral culture, but they are not allowed to differ in their beliefs around sexuality, around gender, around morality, around what should be the future of our species, on how we should relate to the environment, on the way you should interact with other religious and cultural traditions.

And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I came here because I heard that we could, like, be different and all work together, [00:08:00] while maintaining our differences. And then they look at the perinatalist movement, and they're like, oh, you guys are what America was telling everyone it was.

Yeah, let's join that thing. That thing looks like what I signed up for. So, anyway, to the point here, this, this. Enemy is, to some extent, witless when it takes over an organization or a community, it typically makes it very ineffective. We can look at the large companies that have been affected by it. 1 of the things we've pointed out on this show is that once a community adapts racist belief systems economically, it tends to.

undercompete its neighbors and undercompete what it did historically. And this is seen in the, the, the virus or the cult communities. Wokeism or in what they call anti racism, it just labels everything the exact opposite of what it is. It's like the, one of the most racist widespread philosophies in the world today.

And we will see what we always see with racist [00:09:00] communities, which is a collapse economically of the individuals that hold it. When people say, go woke, get broke, what they are saying is that when you become racist, you end up economically under competing your neighbors whose minds are not blinded by this sort of systemic elitism and prejudice against.

Specific cultural group, right? Anyway, so, but who is the other enemy? What is the real enemy that we are terrified of? The real enemy we are terrified of comes from the fact that The two dominant cultural strategies right now for high fertility are disengaging with the economy either preventing your members from working or doing something that lowers the economic potential, like preventing them from getting a traditional education and anything that it decreases an individual's economic Potential is going to increase the fertility of a community.

The other thing is to increase restrictions on how your community engages with technology. The more [00:10:00] your community disengages with technology, the higher fertility. And this is true within communities. So you look at like Amish or Mennonite or the general Anabaptist sphere of communities. The ones that are the most disengaging of technology or the highest fertility rate.

You're ones that are the most using of technology and fertility rates that are about the same as the English, i. e. people who are not Anabaptists. And this matters because it means that anyone who is trying even a lightened form of one of these cultural strategies, the iterations of their movement that try the most extreme forms of these cultural strategies will outcompete the lighter forms of these cultural strategies unless the lighter forms of these cultural strategies maintain complete cultural isolation.

from the more extreme forms of these strategies, which is unlikely because typically the groups practicing the lighter forms of these strategies are these softer cultural groups. This requires some unpacking. Do you want to explain what I just said, Simone?

Simone Collins: Repeat your statement just so I make sure I talk about the right circle of things.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. What I was saying was, is that incrementally, [00:11:00] any. Collection of groups, like related family of cultures that increases its fertility rate or protects its vitality rate by disengaging with technology or economically crippling its own members the iterations of that culture that do that more extremely.

Fertility wise, I'll compete the ones that do it less extreme. Right, right. The problem being is that you could have some intergenerationally stable, yes, lower fertility, but still isolated less extreme version of one of these. The problem being is that the less extreme versions are often soft in cultures, which means that they either bleed out into the main culture or bleed into the more extreme versions.

Simone Collins: You said it really well, do you?

Malcolm Collins: Okay, I guess I don't need to ask. I just want to get you more engaged so people don't feel like I'm not, I'm not giving you a chance to comment on this. I mean, do you have any comments on what I've said so far?

Simone Collins: No I mean, this is just. How we see things playing out, I, I can't

Malcolm Collins: really, obviously true so

Simone Collins: far, I think, yeah, it's, [00:12:00] I mean, especially given the data that we've seen both in terms of who we know is still experiencing high birth rates now, and plus we've seen in the history of the human race.

having high birth rates in the past. It checks out.

Malcolm Collins: The other thing we've seen is a cultural strategy and, and, and likely even a genetic strategy because this does have a genetic link, which is the far right authoritarian personality cluster, which has nothing to do with like right leaning politics is found in left leaning individuals as well.

It's what you would see in like an Antifa member or something like that. It just means an extreme tendency to dehumanize people who aren't in your cultural group. And an extreme tendency to prefer extremist hierarchical structures. So this strategy, like xenophobia basically is a winning cultural strategy.

That is the one thing I will say for it. It does increase fertility rates.

Simone Collins: It's not necessarily like. Crazy evil xenophobia, like we've noticed that in in more diverse nations, birth rates seem to be higher than in really homogenous nations. And these aren't diverse nations that necessarily have huge levels of [00:13:00] intergroup, either culturally or ethnic antagonism, however.

There could be some xenophobia that motivates groups to kind of subconsciously feel really excited about kind of representing themselves more. Like maybe there's something that kicks in when you feel like you're surrounded by others that makes you want to grow your own community.

Malcolm Collins: That is likely true.

However, and I would ask you to, to just search your brain to see if you can think of any counter examples to this. ouTside of East Asian cultures. They are unique and they have different practices. The more xenophobic a cultural group is, the higher their fertility rate is.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, it seems that

Malcolm Collins: way.

Okay. So I'm talking about even extreme xenophobia. So if you're talking about extremely xenophobic culture, they're extremely high fertility. Yeah. Okay. So that means it's a, it's a winning, like it will increase in the future, right? Yeah. For obvious reasons, you know, as we've mentioned again and again It also lowers the economic potential of a community that in the last. 1

anyway, the point being is that in many ways [00:14:00] the reason why so racism. One increases fertility on its own, like xenophobia increases fertility on its own, but in addition to that, it also lowers the economic potential of a group, further increasing its fertility in that direction, which means you're getting this cluster of strategies, uh, low economic output, high xenophobia.

High technophobia, which cluster together into like one branch of winning cultural strategies, which by far today is the cultural strategy, which is outcompeting all others in terms of fertility, and

Simone Collins: I would say that this is accurate. This seems accurate on average, but actually like when I think about Japan, for example, it is, I said, except for East Asian, East Asian.

Thank you. Okay. Yeah. With that big exception,

Malcolm Collins: we're going to talk about East Asian cultures in a separate video because totally different thing is going to happen over there. Yeah. We just don't need to talk about it right now. Okay. It's going to be equally interesting and a bit harder for us to predict, but both of us have lived in East Asian [00:15:00] countries, so we're going to be, I guess, better at predicting it than other people might be.

So. So what this means, and a lot of people look at this and they go, Oh, all of this is code for, uh, Muslims. They're talking about Muslims and no, there are Jewish groups and there are Christian groups and there are even Buddhist groups that are. You know, a highly xenophobic and technophobic and, and murdery, I guess I'd call them.

And that's another thing about this cultural cluster, is they have a practice which makes them axiomatically impossible to ever integrate with the pro natalist agenda, which is that they believe Often, this is very common within these cultural traditions but it's not true amongst all of them. Like, it's not true amongst the Amish, which would be very good allies to the pro natalist movement, which we can talk about later.

But a lot of them believe that at the end of the day there's just going to be one religion, Often one [00:16:00] ethnicity and one culture in the world and some of them will just say one religion, one culture in the world. That's it. There can only be one as we say, they are highlandering it. So in the short term, they work as allies with us because we have the same enemy, which is the urban monoculture.

But in the long term, they will be at odds with us and all of the other, we would call them symbiotic cultural groups, which do not believe it is their job to wipe out all other cultures in the world. And there are various levels of potential allegiance. There are some cultures which say they eventually want to wipe out all other cultures in the world, but they just don't ever seem to act on it, or they don't seem to be able to motivate action on it.

You're right anymore. And so they are safe ish to work with in the short term. There are cultures that, um, we'll say, okay, but we can work with with other groups because we are such a minority right now. [00:17:00] And we will only become dangerous when we become the majority. And so you need to keep an eye on those groups.

But again, this isn't a 1 religious thing. You know, there are. Examples of Buddhist cultures, Jewish cultures, Christian cultures, Muslim cultures that fall into this category, and there are iterations of all of those traditions, which are able to be genuinely pluralistic, or at least sort of detente pluralistic, meaning that...

Right, right. For now. And this is important, because a lot of people, they're not aware, like, they don't know about like the... The really bloody, like, Buddhist revolts in places like Sri Lanka and stuff like that. And like, they don't know, you know, if you look at the perennialist movement, we actually have a lot not a lot, but I'd say a number of Muslim cultural groups that are allied with the movement.

Most of them are African immigrant populations that are not, and you might ask, well, why are they not as, because they have sort of more of a. A, I guess I call it a tribalistic mindset that is okay with intergenerational alliances with people who are different from them which is [00:18:00] not true, which of, of some other Muslim cultural groups which are just, you know, like, like some Christian cultural groups, there can only be one.

And one of the interesting things when we talk about the two enemies is some. Christian cultural groups think that they're signaling, I especially see this with some groups of, of, of tradcasts and stuff like that, how like cool they are by saying there can only be one to like other pro natalists in like a, a multicultural pro natalist environment.

Like they'll, they'll be going to like the natalist conference that we're going to. And it's like, look, this is a conference being put together by Mormon separatists. The, the, the Desnat Mormons are the people who are putting it together and we are. You know, technophilic, like, secular Calvinist, you were saying to the two people who are, like, the most dominant individuals within this cultural context, we plan to kill you one day, hey, let's come together and all work out, or deconvert your children, or, you know, whatever these individuals are, obviously, You're like [00:19:00] that individual in a D& D group that is all aligned good and you're like the one aligned evil person and they're like, obviously working with you in the short run, but in the long run, you are very obviously a threat and they are aware of that and they are planning for that which is, you know, I, yeah.

I thank God that they are so witless right now. I suspect that some of the individuals who claim to be interested in multicultural pluralism are just smarter iterations of them that know to not loudly broadcast it all the time and only talk about it privately behind closed doors. And at the very least, I can appreciate their shrewdness.

Simone Collins: I don't know. To me, there's something very gentlemanly about it. Like it reminds me of some, you know, historical action novels where, you know, you have two enemies who respect each other as rivals and are like, well, I'm going to try to destroy you, but I, you know, I admire your form and, you know, like for a moment they may come together to fight some impediment to their larger shared battle.

I don't know. So I, you can also look at it in a

Malcolm Collins: [00:20:00] more, yeah. Well, and I think where this question is going to become more interesting to us is what happens when one of these dominating cultural groups is also attempting a technophilic strategy. Right. Currently, none of them are. Not a single one of them is a technophilic.

Simone Collins: Oh, yeah, right. I mean, we'd hardly be dominant, but we are very

Malcolm Collins: technophilic. But yeah, we're not dominating, but we're technophilic. If you look at the other technophilic cultural groups they typically are not. Dominating its cultural strategies

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, you, you, the, the, the cult, essentially, the, the woke virus riddled cult that runs society now is both dominating and technophilic, but because it's low fertility, Yeah, it is

Malcolm Collins: both dominating and technophilic.

That is a good point. It is an example of a dominating technophilic cultural group.

Simone Collins: The only reason we don't take it very seriously is we, we understand that most other cultures that it uses to get fodder, to get human capital, will eventually become resistant to it, so we don't think it has long term

Malcolm Collins: potential.

And so, essentially, the true enemy of the pronatalist cause, [00:21:00] not the immediate enemy, which is the urban monoculture, which we sort of see like the God Emperor of Dune, the, the threat that brings us all together, or if you've seen Code Geass, the emperor that, that acts fascist at the end to bring everyone together of different, different, Cultural groups to finally put aside their, their differences so that they can intergenerationally work together.

 That is what it is serving us. It is serving as a very simplistic villain for us right now, a villain on easy mode that is meant to prepare us for the true danger, which comes after us, which it is to a large extent protecting us from, which is a world full of. technophobic, aggressive, ultra religious extremists that want everyone who's not them dead.

And in the other video, similar to this, we talked about sort of a network of haven states. These are small technophilic cultural groups, which are [00:22:00] communicating with each other, trading with each other and that work together and that respect their, their cultural differences and are working to bring back civilization after we enter this next dark age.

And that is sort of the, now we can try to predict what that network is going to look like. Who are going to be the important players in it. But it's difficult right now. If I, as an outsider was going to say who is obviously going to be the biggest player in it, Israel, Israel is just obviously going to be the

Simone Collins: biggest.

Israel, maybe some of the transhumanist Mormons.

Malcolm Collins: That's more speculative and even Israel speculative. So Israel would be, and that it is already.

Simone Collins: It's already technophilic. It's already happening. Well, I guess, but the highest growing populations within Israel are not technophilic, right? Yeah, they're technophobic populations.

So that's the problem. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And so Israel might be, if it can develop a technophilic iteration of the traditions which are growing really quickly within it. And I believe it [00:23:00] can and I believe the key to doing that is going to be a righty group that embrace genetic selection technology. I think that's really going to be the thing that throws some of them over the edge.

But it's difficult and you can look at our video on, we have a video where we explain Jewish sort of cultural evolution. It's very different than other cultural groups. It's very bottom up, i. e. Well, it's better than the video that we talk about it in. I don't want to go deep into it in this one.

So it's possible that something evolves, but it won't look exactly like any of the dominant cultural traditions within Israel right now. But I, I do think it is the biggest likelihood to be sort of the, the beating heart of the nexus of haven states. It could fall to technophobic. Extremists, just as much as

Simone Collins: anyone else.

Yeah, but that, to your point, if a Haraidi group did get super technical, like at least when it came to Reprotech, they would clean up. I mean...

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they're already, as a, as a [00:24:00] sort of center for Haven states, have the industrial capability to produce advanced weaponry, which will be one of the things that is most necessary among the other Haven states.

Right. Things like Iron Dome technology and stuff like that would be very, very relevant wherever you are, whichever Haven state you're in. So it would already like, it's already culturally specializing in the types of exports that are most relevant in this future that we're heading into. Which a lot of people are like, Oh, why do you guys?

Simp for Jewish cultural groups so much on your show. It's not just because like, we think they're doing the right thing. It's because we would be stupid and anyone who is sort of declaring war on them right now in their, in their what's the word I'm looking for in their broadcast is just being incredibly stupid because then who, who do you ally with in the future?

yoU know,

Simone Collins: Who are you going to buy your tech from? Who are you going [00:25:00] to turn to for protection and

Malcolm Collins: solutions? Yeah now what could happen, and this is actually really possible, is some of the Muslim cultural groups that have a ton of money right now could set themselves up like the UAE or Saudi Arabia, and they are very intentional and very specific about how they do this as technophilic elite organizations that oversee a non, a larger non technophilic population That could happen, and those could become really useful groups to buy technology from I could see that happening, but they have to play their cards very, very intelligently, and in truth, of all of the Muslim populations, those are the least directly anti Semitic, the high technology ones, like the ones in the ones in Qatar or the ones in Saudi Arabia. So even then, you know, you're likely not really shooting yourself in the foot by allying with Jewish cultural groups in this, [00:26:00] this future. Right.

Simone Collins: Well, but I also, I don't think people. are expressing anti Semitic views because they, you know, don't expect to ally with, and no one's thinking long term like this.

They're just being reactionary. So it doesn't even matter. You know, it's not like they're like, oh, well, the Saudis are going to be the ones I'm going to need to partner with in the long term future. No one thinks in the long term future. You're like one of the few thing, like people in the, in the world thinking about

Malcolm Collins: this stuff.

Well, I'm trying to think of other cultural groups. As you said, I think the Mormons, I do not think the Mormon transhumanists would be a relevant group. I think the Mormon separatists would be a relevant group. So I think

Simone Collins: it does have potential. Yeah, that's for sure. Doesn't

Malcolm Collins: that's for sure they have potential, not necessarily, but they have potential.

Simone Collins: Well, here's the thing though. So like the whole point of why I think desert nationalists have a lot of potential is they represent an attempt to return to hard Mormon religion and basically, you know, you're going to look at hard versus soft. Hard is going to be more [00:27:00] pronatalist. It's going to last longer.

It's going to stay more disciplined. It's going to be Less subject to the harms of soft culture, that is to say, like failing mental health, failing physical health, etc. So like, I don't know, it seems pretty straightforward to me, unless they go off the rails with a bunch of weird stuff and go soft in their own way.

Well,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, and I think that the tradcasts are also likely, there is some iteration of tradcasts that will stay. Intergenerationally, like, alliable with but of all the cultural groups, they are the one to most likely go around and being like, we plan to kill all our allies one day. And it's like, maybe stop saying that, even if you believe it, you probably want to be at least, I guess I'm just, I like that you see it as like a gentlemanly thing, but, yeah, it's, it's not a a great long term strategy, but there are iterations of that movement because of all the movements. It's 1 of the most likely to be intergenerationally liable ways. And then there's other cultural groups that just like. I guess, like, [00:28:00] theologically and culturally seem like they should be dominating cultural groups, they just aren't.

Like, we recently got back from being around British individuals, and they are very clearly... I think a Hindi cultural group is definitely going to be one of the major players in the future. They are... Dominating or symbiotic? dominating. Yeah. They, they are a non dominating, very likely to take technophilic strategies, higher fertility than most other technophilic cultural groups.

Totally. Now, they are lower fertility than groups that take technophobic strategies, that is true. But among the technophilic cultural groups, they're one of the highest fertility. And, and they are a very good group to signal alliances with. Yeah. So I'm trying to think, what other groups do I know?

I Guess the next thing to talk about is what ends up happening to East Asia. Well,

Simone Collins: yeah, I mean, I would, I would wonder if there, like when I was in Japan, there were some Colt is going to do

Malcolm Collins: a different video in East Asia to talk about

Simone Collins: the

Malcolm Collins: technophilic, like what happens during the collapse cycle in East [00:29:00] Asia.

Okay. Because it's not worth talking about in this, this video. But yeah, so this is what the pronatalist movement is really all about. It is about taking this period of safety to build inter community and inter cultural connections in ways of working with each other to. Protect our descendants from the, basically the religious extremists who want to kill them all.

The xenophobic, technophobic, economically unproductive religious extremists who will make up the majority of the future world's population. And they won't be from any one religious group. They will be from, All cultural groups, there will be factions of them from all cultural groups, because it is a successful strategy, no matter what cultural group you're from, and there are potentials for technophilic strategies, no matter what cultural group you're from, and it is worth it for the technophilic pluralistic groups to ally together to attempt to [00:30:00] preserve what we think of as sort of pluralistic human civilization.

What are your thoughts, Simone?

Simone Collins: People probably may hear this and think that it sounds outlandish and sci fi and... But just look at, look at how things have played out in history and, and look at the trends and I, you know, we, we challenge you to come up with some other theory that seems more reasonable and predictive. So just because something sounds weird.

And just because something sounds very, very different doesn't mean that that's. It's never going to happen, or it's relegated

Malcolm Collins: to fiction. Yep. Things have changed before. And a lot of people think that they're like, Oh, well, all of your predictions are requisite on demographic collapse, causing an economic collapse of our, of our current economic system, but AI could save us.

And as we've mentioned before. No, a I freeze the bourgeoisie from the proletariat permanently. They don't need you anymore, and it is not worth it for them. As we have seen in places where [00:31:00] collapses already started, like South Africa, the wealthy are not like giving their money out to the masses to you.

Placate them anymore. That made sense in a past global system where there was a large middle class when the middle class begins to dissolve. It is more economically efficient for the wealthy to not pay for things like UBI, but instead put all of their money into defending their compounds and their own way of life.

And that is going to lead to an economic collapse, even if we are dealing with ec for the vast majority of people in the world, even if we are And I don't

Simone Collins: think that's, that's through any lack of attempt to first try to make UBI work, but you also have to look at how right now, non billionaires regard the philanthropic work of billionaires.

Yes. Whenever billionaires basically try to fix things or try to make things better, it's always, how dare you, you're doing this wrong. You know, the nerve of you're trying to come and intervene or, or, you know, affect our lives. Basically every time a billionaire tries to make things better, [00:32:00] especially for people in a more developed society, they get, they get completely demonized for it.

So I think after a while and especially when it comes to like, sort of will billionaires survive or not surviving billionaires and billionaires who actually get more out of life are going to be the ones who fortify their own defenses. Partially because the very people that. Could really benefit from their patronage are going to Basically, you know, alienate

Malcolm Collins: themselves from them.

Well, I also think that, that billionaires, so there's sort of two paths for billionaires and we've already seen this one. What, well, three paths. One is they will try to ingratiate themselves with the current cult or virus or whatever you want to say. And they end up just getting disregarded by the public and hated examples of this would be like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates two is they end up, just indolently living their lives as well, see as possible and sort of data compounds and they won't end up mattering in the future. And 3 is they when was this? They might like, create compounds that matter for [00:33:00] a generation or 2, but they're really personality cults. And these will ultimately collapse and then the final 1 is to alive themselves with an intergenerationally durable cultural group, whether it's like ours or tried to cast or something else, and they will exist in the future.

 And I, I think that that is going to be the winning strategy for billionaires going forwards is what it was historically, which is to ally yourself with one of the religious and cultural traditions of the world. And obviously if you want to have the biggest outside impact, you typically want to focus on a very competent and small one like ours.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: just, just saying if anyone in the room is thinking here. Love you, Simone. This was great. And let's do the next one on East Asia. What happens there? Excited for that.

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