
Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)
The Tom Schimmer Podcast is a show about learning, leadership, and life. Primarily, it’s a podcast that focuses on current topics in K-12 education. Each week, Tom Schimmer (a best-selling education author, keynote speaker, and consultant) will lean on his 30 years of experience to keep listeners informed and entertained on the prevailing stories dominating the conversations about teaching and learning. This podcast also focuses on educational leadership by exploring how leaders can truly engineer a culture of continued professional growth. Occasionally, this podcast will explore the pursuit of success and happiness as it relates to any walk of life. Through a mix of interviews, commentary, current news stories, questions from listeners, and other segments, listeners will be well-equipped to meet the needs of learners regardless of what role they serve.
Latest episodes

Apr 8, 2025 • 37min
11 - Would You Rather? (Assessment Edition)
In this episode, Tom and Nat play the game "Would You Rather," exploring five assessment dilemmas that teachers and schools often face:
Would You Rather:
#1: Allow students to redo assessments right up to report card deadlines, or cut off revisions two weeks early to protect your feedback quality and mental health?
#2: Suppress a student’s grade when evidence is insufficient, or assign a best-estimate level using professional judgment to avoid blank spaces on reports?
#3: Use a single holistic score to reflect overall proficiency on a standard, or break it down into multiple component scores for clarity — even if it overwhelms families?
#4: Prioritize the accuracy of the final report card by using only summative tasks, or include some formative data to recognize effort and encourage student morale?
#5: Give more weight to recent evidence to honor growth, or consider the full body of work to avoid inflated grades from last-minute surges?
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institute
Madison, WI
RECENT BOOKS:
"Redefining Student Accountability"
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Podcast on X
Tom on X
Natalie on X
Podcast on IG
Tom on IG
Natalie on IG
Email: assessthat24@gmail.com

Mar 10, 2025 • 50min
10 - Assessing PBL & Inquiry
Tom and Nat delve into the intricate world of assessing Project-Based and Inquiry-Based Learning, emphasizing the need for meaningful evaluations that prioritize the learning process. They introduce the GRASPS framework for authentic assessments and challenge traditional grading practices. The conversation also highlights the balance between student engagement and real-world application, tackling the hurdles educators face in innovative teaching methods. With insights on crafting effective rubrics, the episode pushes for assessments that truly reflect student growth.

Feb 24, 2025 • 36min
BONUS [TSP Classic] - Gholdy Muhammad (July 2022)
In this Tom Schimmer Podcast classic, Tom is joined by Gholdy Muhammad to discuss her book, "Cultivating Genius, an Equity Framework for Culturally and Historically Responsive Literacy."
Gholdy on X: @GholdyM
Gholdy on Instagram: @gholdym
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
MAR. 5-6 (Tom) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
San Antonio, TX
MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
New Orleans, LA
APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
Athens, Greece
June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institue
Madison, WI
NEW BOOK
Rehumanizing Assessment through Story
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Podcast on X
Tom on X
Natalie on X
Podcast on IG
Tom on IG
Natalie on IG
Email: assessthat24@gmail.com

Feb 10, 2025 • 50min
9 - 3 Year Checklist for Implementing Standards-Based Grading
Discover a practical three-year roadmap for implementing standards-based grading tailored to your educational context. Learn about the crucial difference between proficiency and frequency scales in assessments. Explore fascinating cultural contrasts from their travels, emphasizing collaboration and learning among educators. Delve into the urgency needed in restructuring grading practices while encouraging patience and inclusivity among staff. Get insights on balancing academic and behavioral assessments for a fairer evaluation system.

Jan 27, 2025 • 34min
8 - The Secrets to Self-Assessment
Discover the transformative power of self-assessment in the classroom! The hosts reveal why it's essential for student empowerment and share strategies to navigate early implementation challenges. Learn about innovative methods like using exemplars and tools such as chat GPT to enrich student understanding. Hear how portfolios and data notebooks can drive meaningful reflection and engagement. Get ready to cultivate a culture of growth, as you help students take ownership of their learning journey!

Dec 2, 2024 • 39min
7 - The Grading Trap!
In this episode, Tom and Natalie discuss the "Grading Trap," which inadvertently occurs when traditional grading practices - things like zeros for missing work, late penalties, and mixing behavior with academic performance - end up working against learning instead of supporting it. The "Grading Trap" can inadvertently sabotage great teaching.
Tom and Natalie close the episode with ways that teachers can recognize the "red flags" of the "Grading Trap" and how they can get themselves out of it.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
JAN. 24-25 (Tom) NESA Educators Training Institute
Abu Dhabi, U.A.E.
FEB. 6-7 (Natalie) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
Orlando, FL.
FEB 19 (Tom) PLC Summit KEYNOTE
Phoenix, AZ
MAR. 5-6 (Tom) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
San Antonio, TX
MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
New Orleans, LA
APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
Athens, Greece
June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institue
Madison, WI
RECENT BOOKS:
"Redefining Student Accountability"
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Podcast on X
Tom on X
Natalie on X
Podcast on IG
Tom on IG
Natalie on IG
Email: assessthat24@gmail.com

Nov 18, 2024 • 34min
6 - Three Quick Assessment Wins
In this episode, Tom and Natalie discuss three quick assessment wins. Each "win" falls within a specific aspect of assessment.
Formative: Engineer conversations
Summative: Reorganize the gradebook.
Student Agency: Feedback through consent
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
JAN. 24-25 (Tom) NESA Educators Training Institute
Abu Dhabi, U.A.E.
FEB. 6-7 (Natalie) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
Orlando, FL.
FEB 19 (Tom) PLC Summit KEYNOTE
Phoenix, AZ
MAR. 5-6 (Tom) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
San Antonio, TX
MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
New Orleans, LA
APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
Athens, Greece
June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institue
Madison, WI
RECENT BOOKS:
"Redefining Student Accountability"
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Podcast on X
Tom on X
Natalie on X
Podcast on IG
Tom on IG
Natalie on IG
Email: assessthat24@gmail.com

6 snips
Nov 4, 2024 • 51min
5 - The Anatomy of a Good Rubric
Discover the secrets behind crafting effective rubrics that balance art and science. The discussion dives into different types of rubrics—analytic, holistic, and single-point—and their unique benefits. Find out why task neutrality matters, allowing criteria to apply broadly across assignments. Gain insights into providing feedback that enhances long-term learning, while also exploring the evolving role of rubrics in education. Hear humorous travel tales alongside inspiring educational discussions that promote global collaboration.

Oct 21, 2024 • 44min
4 - Are Common Assessments Worth It?
In this episode, Tom and Natalie ask, "Are Common Assessments Worth It?" Spoiler alert: they are, as long as certain fundamentals and conditions are adhered to. In particular, when common assessments are used formatively they can be a powerful process for enhanced learning for students and teachers!
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Nov. 3-5: Aurora Institute Symposium
New Orleans, LA
RECENT BOOKS:
"Redefining Student Accountability"
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Podcast on X
Tom on X
Natalie on X
Podcast on IG
Tom on IG
Natalie on IG
Email: assessthat24@gmail.com

Oct 7, 2024 • 41min
3 - Feedback - Simple & Complex
In this episode, Tom and Natalie explore the topic of feedback. They discuss it as both simple and complex. It's simple because there is unanimous agreement in academia about the role feedback plays in increasing student learning. It's complex because there are many contributing factors that lead to feedback potentially being ineffective.
In the end, Tom & Nat leave you with six guidelines for effective feedback.
FEEDBACK LESSONS
Lesson 1 - What is feedback?
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Zj5UPoNEIJK3x_i6dxGC3bjMFmaYiQSo/copy
Lesson 2 - How can I ask for and give feedback?
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ISI4f0rarjXpitgc9Ab4hkNbrK127HJN/copy
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Oct. 17-19: NESA Fall Leadership Conference (Tom)
Dubai, U.A.E.
Nov. 3-5: Aurora Institute Symposium
New Orleans, LA
RECENT BOOKS:
"Redefining Student Accountability"
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Podcast on X
Tom on X
Natalie on X
Podcast on IG
Tom on IG
Natalie on IG
Email: assessthat24@gmail.com
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