RevOps FM

What lies ahead for marketing operations? How can it become more strategic and impactful?Darrell Alfonso has spent the past ten years answering these questions through his work at companies like AWS and Indeed. He's also dedicated himself to moving the discipline of marketing ops forward as an author, teacher, speaker, and thought-leader. In this episode, he shares his vision of how marketing operations can encompass both strategy and technical expertise and describes how MOPS practitioners can level-up in their careers. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Darrell Alfonso is a 2x Marketo Champion, course instructor, Author of "The Martech Handbook", and frequent speaker and thought-leader. He's held marketing and operations leadership positions at Indeed, Amazon Web Services, Hitwise, and the American Marketing Association. https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrellalfonso/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:58] - Darrell's definition of marketing operations: the art and science of executing great marketing. Key pillars: planning and strategy, technology management, process design, analytics, business alignment. [02:48] - Evolution of marketing ops from being tech-centric to business-centric. [04:59] - Challenges of that evolutionary process. Potential discomfort within ops of moving into a role where they have revenue accountability. MOPS people have an allegiance to craft, but should focus on what the business needs. [07:43] - Risk of feeling powerless or misunderstood. Need for operators to better communicate our value. [09:25] - Darrell's background in communications and how it's impacted his career. The importance of communication within operations and how it's helped him grow as a leader. Internal communication is not about being self-promotional. It's about playing together effectively as a team (analogy of a sports team). [14:43] - How Darrell's role combines both strategy and operations. Strategy is the set of choices we make in service of an objective. Tactics at one level of the business become the strategy for the next level. Discussion of how this applies within Darrell's current company. [26:08] - Description of Darrell's team and how it functions. How marketing technology sits within a separate Business Systems function. [29:46] - What Darrell's ideal org structure would look like. Pros and cons of separating tech into a Business Systems group. Need for technologists to have technical leadership. Similar issue applies with SDRs and whether they report into marketing or sales. [36:25] - Building a personal brand in marketing operations. Benefits and how to do it. Difference between personal branding and cultivating an audience. Resource LinksThe Marketing Operations Handbook: A Complete Guide to Marketing Operations - Darrell referenced this book, by revenue operator Michael McKinnon, several times during the episode. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Benjamin Marchal is perhaps the most effective revenue operator I've ever met. We work together, and so I've been fortunate to collaborate with Ben often. I've learned a ton from studying him in action. However I wanted to go deeper into exactly how he's so effective while shouldering massive responsibility as COO of a $50 million ARR company. We go deep into his vision of operations and unpack the mindset, routines, and methodologies that help him be successful. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Benjamin Marchal is COO of 360Learning, a learning platform that enables companies to upskill from within by turning their experts into champions for employee, customer, and partner growth.Ben worked at McKinsey for two years before joining 360Learning, where he started as an Operations Manager and progressed to become COO in 4 years. https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-marchal-89a01180/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:15] - Ben's vision of operations. Ops exists to help each team perform better today and to be ready for the future. Four key activities. 1) Source of truth for KPIs. 2) Identifying improvement areas. 3) Helping teams implement those improvements. 4) Maintaining and running the business. [02:38] - How Ops teams can balance taking requests from teams they support with proactively pursuing strategic improvements. If Ops teams don't monitor KPIs, then they are stuck in implementation mode and don't partake in strategic discussions. Conversely if they focus solely on strategy, they become disconnected from the field and fail. Both are important. [05:34] - How Ops teams can make time for reviewing KPIs. Ben looks at them first thing every morning. Creates a sense of ownership. The need to create a KPI tree (first, second, third-level metrics). Creates a clear picture of where to focus efforts. This enables strategic discussion with executives and ability to push back on requests. Importance of being fact-based, rational, agnostic. [11:24] - Ben's experience at McKinsey and how it's impacted him. Types of projects at McKinsey. The onboarding experience. [16:48] - Ben's journey at 360Learning, going from Operations Manager to COO. Development of incentives models. Working in Customer Success Ops, fixing churn. Demonstrated that applying the McKinsey model to in-house operations worked well. Began to coach the Operations team. Building the data team. Creating the business plan - demonstrated that he understood the business end-to-end, more exposure to investors and the Board. Move to COO. He isn't a functional expert in every scope, but his job is to make sure the company works on the right things. [22:19] - Ben's mindset and whether it's evolved as he's gained more responsibility. He believes the mindset has been the same. Four critical things: 1) Being low ego, agnostic. Focused on data and what it shows. 2) Being both big picture and granular at the same time. 3) Ability to cut through noise and prioritize. 4) Ability to communicate at different levels. These are all things he learned at McKinsey. [26:10] - Looking at a practical example of how Ben prioritizes, given the huge scope of problems that he is responsible for. He thinks about the business in three main areas - demand creation, conversion, and retention. (Product is present in all three.) He identifies what is working well and what is not, then considers what will drive most value for the company using an impact/feasibility matrix. [28:55] - Challenges of applying this in practice. Justin notes that Ben is also highly responsive to communication, which isn't typical of all execs. Ben explains how he uses a notebook to prioritize the main topics he needs to care about. For "must-do" items, he blocks time in his calendar. [31:16] - Ben's point of view on go-to-market strategy. First, need product market fit. second, identify who you are selling to - ICP. Could be industry, or size, or use-case. Identify the personas within those companies. Third, how to get the product in front of those people - inbound, outbound, etc. [36:31] - Importance of qualitative feedback. Ben listens to a lot of calls. KPIs tell you what is happening, calls and voice of the customer tells you why it's happening. Both are important ways of discovering reality. [38:53] - Challenges of being an international company. Differences in business culture between France and North America. [43:36] - How the tech world will evolve going forward now that capital is less available. Resource LinksThe Pyramid Principle: Logic in Writing and Thinking - Book by Barbara Minto of McKinsey on her communication framework called "The Pyramid Principle." Ben introduced this into the onboarding for everyone at 360Learning. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Sanford (“Sandy”) Whiteman is a legend in the Marketo world. A software developer by trade, he’s one of a small handful of engineers who have focused specifically on marketing platforms and problems - not merely as a one-time project or side interest but as a dedicated speciality. Sandy is the #1 all-time contributor in the Marketo product community with over 23,500 posts and an honorary community moderator designation. He's also been a great friend and teacher to me over the years and a collaborator on many projects. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Sanford Whiteman is Chief Technologist at FigureOne, a Marketo development agency. Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:05] - Sandy’s background and how he entered the Marketo world. His start as an IT security person. Developing an app for the textbook publishing industry. First Marketo project: to fix Munchkin. Reverse engineering the Munchkin script. Developing fluency in the Marketo UI. [04:58] - Why Sandy took the Munchkin script seriously. Enjoyment of niche knowledge and desire to discover what is currently unknown. Previous experience reverse engineering Microsoft SMTP server. People even at Marketo/Adobe not fully understanding the product internals. They are not front-end people. [08:17] - Justin’s perspective on when Sandy entered the Marketo community. People guessing or speculating at how things worked technically but without a technical background. The contrast when a real developer focused on the same topics. Sandy’s desire to not guess and to spread accurate knowledge about systems. How early developers scoffed at cloud-based systems and refused to support them. How developer skepticism towards MarTech systems may be rooted in a resentment from the IT team. IT questioning why the company would pay for a system they believe (erroneously) could be built in-house. [11:49] - Why “mainstream” developers who are otherwise talented produce bad work in the MarTech world (e.g., poor integrations) and show a lack of curiosity about it. Disparagement of marketing within the developer community. Lack of understanding of core components of marketing automation: SMTP, landing pages, databases. Belief that these are unsophisticated technology. Internal IT resources haven’t had to manage email servers for 15 years or more. That knowledge has died out, leading to lack of understanding. Perceived primacy of back-end developers over front-end developers. Disparagement of JavaScript. [20:49] - The rationale for investing hours of time investigating obscure issues. How mastery of obscure knowledge becomes useful when those situations do arise.[24:32] - The challenge of being a technical consultant to marketers: you’re downstream of strategy. Discussion of how it feels to work on marketing projects where the strategy is flawed or creative seems ineffective. The political challenges of giving feedback as a consultant. Sandy’s frustrating situation with a client claiming the Marketo Lead ID is PII. How there’s also a prestige that can come with being a consultant. [32:19] - Sanford’s perspective on the product outlook of Marketo and whether the glory days of the platform are behind it. Lack of innovation in recent times. If Sandy was in charge, he would shut down imitation / look-alike products (Adobe Connect, Live Chat) as these won’t successfully replace more full-featured applications. [33:42] - Sandy and Justin build a fantasy roadmap for Marketo. The importance of getting ahead of the market and deeply understanding the needs of the customer. Questioning whether anyone at Adobe is filling that role now with respect to Marketo. Lack of focus on effective marketing. Smaller companies with dynamic founders seem more likely to come up with these ideas. [35:55] - Feature idea: ability to customize the UI in Marketo (like a Visualforce page in Salesforce). The challenge of rebuilding an existing app interface using legacy technology. Why Sky failed. [41:59] - Feature idea: ability to analyze records in the database in relation to each other. (E.g., create quartiles.) Discussion of new Activity Stream feature (outbound streaming API). [45:52] - Feature idea: better data manipulation within flow steps (like what is possible to do in FlowBoost). [46:33] - Feature idea: more control over order of operations within the system. Guaranteed ways to avoid race conditions. Question of whether this is solvable within marketing automation architecture. The ability to have visibility of database changes yet to be committed. How Marketo provides a toolkit that requires developer-esque conceptual understanding. [51:13] - Discussion of AI and its potential impact on marketing technology. One potential application is using it to generate documentation. AI beneficial as a convenience tool (like the computer on a Star Trek ship). Justin expresses skepticism about its generative abilities for marketing content. Challenges for AI with generating or explaining humour. Resource LinksTEKNKL :: Blog - Sanford’s blog. A critical resource for the Marketo developer. FlowBoost for Marketo - Sanford’s app providing additional data processing capabilities for Marketo. Data Streams - Marketo Developers - Documentation for the “Data Streams” functionality discussed during the show. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Today we're joined by Jen Igartua, a RevOps leader and 10+ year operations consultant. We discuss her vision of the go-to-market engine as a product, how to ensure the work of RevOps is aligned with C-level priorities, and the importance of focus for enabling deep work.Jen shares some awesome knowledge here for how RevOps teams can achieve greater impact and how operators can level-up their careers. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Jen Igartua is CEO of Go Nimbly, a revenue operations consultancy for scaling businesses. From Jen's LinkedIn: "I’m...working with high-growth companies to create a frictionless, human buying experience with RevOps."https://www.linkedin.com/in/jen-igartua/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:02] - Jen’s consulting background. How she helped start Go Nimbly. [02:37] - Definition of RevOps. Metaphor of a business as a film studio, where the goal is to make a movie, GTM teams are actors, and RevOps is the director. [03:56] - How operators can step into this director role. If you’re mid-to-junior level and in a company that doesn’t get RevOps, you likely won’t make a huge impact and need to find another environment. Or it may be more a matter of you needing to improve your skills. These include the ability to say no, having an intake process, and keeping priorities aligned to the C-level. [07:31] - Whether operators have a self-limiting mindset, focused on their craft vs. business impact. Growth mindset is important. A lot of this is new and people are still figuring it out. [08:34] - RevOps as a product and whether the “customer” is the GTM teams or the literal external customer. Jen’s point of view is that we need to understand what RevOps truly brings to the business and to the things the CEO cares about. Sometimes that may be solving for customer needs, but in other times it could be something different (e.g., data readiness in preparation for an IPO). Ultimately we achieve our customer-facing goals via the GTM teams, so we need to care about their experience and happiness. [14:52] - How Go Nimbly interacts with the different GTM teams. Whether RevOps is just sales ops rebranded. How silos form and evolve in companies. People are good at aligning vertically but poor at aligning horizontally. [18:13] - People align themselves based on how power and authority flows in an organization. If the CMO and CRO aren’t aligned, their teams won’t be either. Justin’s experience on the importance of having a unifying force, like a COO, to bring them into alignment. Jen thinks this is ideal, although not something every company has. Ultimately a company is like a complex system. All systems have weaknesses, and so we need to mitigate those weaknesses somehow. [20:22] - Gap-first thinking: how to identify initiatives with the biggest impact. Start with the business gap vs. with ideas in a backlog. When you have your goal, then identify what levers you can pull to reach it. Typically these levers include “3VC” - volume, velocity, value, and conversion. You can identify where your weaknesses are via reporting or through durability testing (aka stress testing). Go ahead and become the customer. [24:32] - Why gap-first thinking is hard. Lack of time for operators to step back and audit their work. [26:13] - The importance of focus at work. Distractions are pervasive. How we can create space for deep work. Completing tasks quickly gives a dopamine hit but doesn’t always yield the impact of deep work. [28:43] - Machine work vs. innovation work. Both are necessary. It’s a great exercise to audit the effort needed to run business as usual. Then you can explain to the business what your capacity is. The innovation work is how we transform the business. [31:11] - Pros and cons of outsourcing RevOps. Companies can dial up skillsets when they need them or manage case work that internal resources may not want to do forever. The importance of having an internal champion at a company that can help connect the dots with their own leadership. The challenge for consultants of context switching. Why Go Nimbly tries to keep consultants on only a few accounts at a time. [36:32] - Jen’s journey growing Go Nimbly. There are people who have figured out professional services firms - important to learn from them. [38:28] - What innovations is Jen seeing in the marketplace? Product-led sales is a major focus. Data is also important. Companies no longer putting every piece of data into Salesforce. Resource LinksThe Boutique: How To Start, Scale, And Sell A Professional Services Firm - Amazon - Recommended resource for running a professional services firm. Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System - Another resource on systems thinking. Thinking in Systems - Amazon - One of Jen’s recommended resources for systems thinking. How RevOps Teams Find Gaps - Go Nimbly article describing durability testing and 3VC.What is Gap-First Thinking for RevOps Teams? - Article on Go Nimbly’s website describing their philosophy of gap-first thinking. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Note: I've also shared a full video version of this episode, where you can see me screen share everything I'm describing. You can find it here:Documentation Episode - Full Video I’m incredibly (absurdly? ridiculously?) enthusiastic about documentation.Part of that is just my personality, but it’s also because I’ve seen what a game-changer good documentation can be.This first hit home when I started consulting. It was incredibly stressful (in the very early days) to work on poorly documented projects. They were filled with assumptions, misunderstandings, client disappointment, and re-work.We quickly improved our documentation game, and it was transformative. We now had a clear source of truth for what each project should be, approved by the client before we started building. It also created space to think things through in more detail.However, each doc existed in isolation. We never had the mandate or scope to create a complete knowledge base for any one client.Creating the Knowledge Base of My DreamsWhen I started my next in-house job and we began a company-wide Confluence implementation, I finally had the chance to go beyond disconnected documentation and build a true RevOps knowledge base.This video shares everything I’ve learned, including a screen-share walk-through of my team’s knowledge base and tips for overcoming the time deficit that every team faces when trying to create docs.Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak

Data is the raw material we work with in marketing. You can come up amazing campaign ideas. You can even build them out. But if your data is junk, everything falls apart. Today's guest spent a decade building Digital Pi, a top marketing automation agency, and is now making a pivot to customer data ops.We chat about the data problems facing revenue teams, the issues with traditional data warehouse approaches, and why Syncari is his data platform of choice. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Ryan Vong is a marketing technology leader with over 20 years experience. He was the founder and CEO of Digital Pi, a global marketing automation agency acquired by Merkle Inc. in 2020. In 2023, he founded Helix CXM, an agency providing data operations for revenue teams. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanvong/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:45] - Evolution of marketing operations over the last decade. [03:08] - Marketing ops vs. sales ops. Need for marketing operations to become more strategic. Campaign execution becoming commoditized. Limits on the size of MOPS teams. [05:59] -Marketing operations as a force for accountability, evaluating effectiveness. Approaches and challenges in interpreting the customer journey. Not all the data is there. [08:24] - Ryan's pivot to customer data ops and founding CXM. The pains he saw that led him in this direction. How marketing automation was limited by dirty data. Helix is data operations for the revenue team. AI requires clean data to function properly. [13:02] - Data operations involves both technical and process / strategy components. How Ryan aims to address those. Three phases of data - as a utility, as an enabler, as a driver. Data as a utility is the first priority.[14:49] - Perspective on traditional data warehouse/lake. Centralized system is needed, but with current approach it's too slow. Everything is outdated by the time it's ready.[18:25] - Deep dive into Syncari, why Ryan selected it, what makes it unique. Single source of truth vs. distributed truth. Ability for users to work where they are already comfortable. Having a data store incorporated into the tool. Similarity to how the Marketo/Salesforce sync works. Ability to revert to previous state. [24:02] - Ownership of the customer data engine within the organization. Natural home is within revenue ops teams. Collaboration with IT department. [25:36] - Structure of a data ops engagement. Ability to preview data before turning the system on. Importance of speed/agility. Build vs. run components of the engagement. Data monitoring - similar to home security monitoring. [29:29] - Lessons learned and plans for taking the agency founder's journey a second time.Resource LinksHelix CXM - Ryan’s agency website.Salesforce Shouldn’t Be Your Single Source of Truth - Top Reasons Why - Syncari article about a single source of truth vs. distributed truth. Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Operations can be difficult in organizations of any size, but in large companies, there are special challenges. What does it take to succeed as an ops leader in the world's biggest enterprises? Today's guest is a former marketing ops leader from Marketo, Adobe, Slack, and Salesforce. He delivers a master class on navigating enterprise complexity. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Paul Wilson has been a sales and marketing leader, consultant, and marketing operations executive at some of the largest companies in the world, including Marketo, Adobe, Slack, Salesforce, and OneTrust. Today he is the CEO of GTM Systems. From Paul's LinkedIn: "GTM Systems is dedicated to reinventing the intersection of marketing, sales, and customer success operations into a unified go-to-market operations framework."https://www.linkedin.com/in/pwtoday/Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:24] - Which type of work/company size has been most rewarding for Paul. Enjoyment from working with people to solve challenges. [03:54] - What to do when joining a new enterprise. Establishing the mandate of the role and what resources you have. [05:54] - The role of marketing ops in the enterprise. Important distinctions between MOPs and Sales Ops. Lack of sandbox environments in the MarTech stack creating greater risk. Everything is in production. Marketers are reliant on their tools to deliver experiences and are more impacted by issues.[09:00] - Why we can't we have sandboxes in MarTech. Possible perception of finance that this is less critical. Proximity of CRM to IT. Growing distinction between operations and technology in many companies. Business Systems / IT teams absorbing sales tech. [16:09] - Relationship between marketing operations and marketing strategy. The right way to relate to stakeholders. Need for campaign engineering and MOPS to have a voice in marketing planning discussions. Analogy to a structural engineer in discussions of building construction.[23:50] - The biggest changes someone should expect moving from a smaller org to an enterprise company. Big companies don't move quickly. Importance of establishing relationships with navigators who can teach you. The experience taught Paul how to communicate effort, developing tiered messaging for different levels of the organization. [36:28] - Inevitability of dysfunction in an enterprise. Will all enterprises approach being a real-life Dilbert strip? Some dysfunction comes with the territory. [40:21] - The coolest/most complex projects are in enterprise. Paul's experience doing large projects and the thrill they bring.[43:04] - Is Paul a lucky charm for M&A? [43:41] - The implications of AI be for marketing. Justin sees some benefit as a convenience / efficiency tool but is skeptical of generative capabilities. Paul believes AI will be revolutionary, but we are still in the "dot-matrix" phase. Discussion of ethical concerns. [48:56] - Paul's new firm, GTM Systems.Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

B2B Marketing can be broadly grouped into eras based on specific go-to-market strategies that were dominant at the time. Today's guest played a pivotal role in the development of not just one but two (!) of these era-defining strategies: lead generation / content marketing and account-based marketing (ABM).Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Jon Miller was the co-founder and first CMO of Marketo, CEO of Engagio, and CMO of DemandBase. From Jon's LinkedIn: "Jon has played a pivotal role in shaping the world’s most disruptive marketing technology platforms, with a focus on thought leadership, category creation, and strategic go-to-market."https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmiller2/Key Topics[01:30] - Founding of Marketo, positioning against Eloqua[05:25] - Jon's early use of content marketing, around the same time as Hubspot. Definitive Guides. [10:45] - Marketo's early revenue process. Lead scoring. SDR qualification. [13:50] - Issues with the lead generation model. [21:13] - Rise of ABM. Founding of Engagio. Relationship with Terminus and DemandBase. Flip My Funnel. Acquisition of Engagio. [29:06] - Effectiveness of ABM. Challenges. Importance of seeing ABM as a spectrum vs. a binary. [34:05] - Jon's axioms of marketing[35:50] - Development of marketing operations. RevOps. What marketing operations needs to do to be more strategic. [45:05] - What's next in GTM? Potential impact of AI. Resource LinksThe Marketing Playbook I Helped Create Doesn’t Work Anymore. Here’s the New B2B Marketing Playbook. - Jon's article on the issues with the lead generation playbook he helped create. Learn MoreDiscuss this episode over at the Revops FM SubStack community: LinkedIn - General

Hi I'm Justin 👋 - creator and host of RevOps FM. In this short trailer episode, I walk through why I created the podcast and what you can expect. There's lots of RevOps content out there - so why listen to this show? One unique feature is that I'm not selling or representing any particular product or point of view. My main goal is to figure out what works and how to be the best RevOps leader/practitioner I can be. That curiosity and desire to learn is the driving force of the show, and it means I can be as honest and objective as possible. Three motivators for creating the podcast: Thinking out loud about RevOps and GTM strategy, in dialogue with some of the smartest folks in the industry. Sharing knowledge at scale. Looking critically at what works and challenging conventional wisdom. If you want stay in touch, head over to the show website, where you can subscribe to our newsletter. This gives you access to new episode notifications, podcast clips, and other bonus content. RevOps.fm