China Considered

Host Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Yanzhong Huang, a leading expert on China's public health system, examining how China has evolved from the COVID-19 pandemic and its growing role in global health diplomacy. The two explore China’s dramatic policy pivots—from initial inaction to draconian zero-COVID lockdowns to sudden reopening—and analyze why meaningful domestic reforms and transparency remain elusive despite lessons from the crisis. Huang discusses China's strategic health diplomacy, particularly how its provision of vaccines and medical supplies during COVID earned goodwill in developing countries. The conversation reveals how U.S. withdrawal from global health institutions creates opportunities for China to expand its influence through the Health Silk Road initiative, requiring minimal effort to fill the vacuum left by the American absence. Huang argues that the unresolved controversy over COVID-19's origins and deep mistrust between Washington and Beijing have effectively frozen bilateral health cooperation, making dialogue nearly impossible even in an area traditionally viewed as ripe for collaboration. Recorded on October 1, 2025. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Oliver Melton, Director at the Rhodium Group and former U.S. Treasury financial attache in Beijing, shares his on-the-ground insights into China's economy. He highlights the structural imbalances causing economic strife, such as the real estate crash and over-reliance on investment. Melton reviews significant initiatives like the Belt and Road, which is shifting focus towards targeted investments, and China's de-dollarization strategy. He emphasizes the necessity of international coordination for effective responses to China's industrial policies, indicating that unilateral actions may fall short.

Noah Barkin, a senior advisor at the Rhodium Group, discusses the evolving dynamics of the EU-China relationship. He highlights Europe's awakening to the China challenge and the shift in perspectives since 2019. Barkin explains how attempts by China to exploit U.S.-Europe tensions have faltered. He delves into the implications of strategic investments and the significance of rare earth controls. Drawing from his expertise, he questions whether Europe can maintain unity in its China policy amidst growing economic and security concerns.

David Shambaugh, a renowned expert in Asian studies, discusses his latest book on the collapse of America’s engagement strategy with China. He explores how China initially captivated American interests but lost momentum post-2010. Shambaugh identifies five key perspectives shaping today’s U.S.-China policy landscape and emphasizes the shift towards comprehensive rivalry. Through his firsthand experiences and insights, he highlights the need for careful management to avoid further escalation in tensions, offering a clarity that’s crucial for understanding this complex relationship.

Hoover Fellows Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Dr. Amy Zegart discuss the "DeepSeek moment"— when China's DeepSeek AI model surprised U.S. markets by replicating OpenAI's performance using fewer resources and an open-source approach. The two explore the strategic implications of open versus closed AI models, with there being an argument that the U.S. should embrace more open research approaches rather than closed models. They highlight how China is successfully replicating America's historical innovation model—investing heavily in long-term basic science—while the U.S. has reduced federal R&D spending. The two scholars conclude with policy recommendations, including fixing K-12 math education, creating a national computer infrastructure for universities, and strengthening partnerships with allies while emphasizing the importance of including academia in what should be "public-private-academic partnerships." Recorded on July 2, 2025. ABOUT THE SPEAKERS Amy Zegart is the Morris Arnold and Nona Jean Cox Senior Fellow and the Director of the Technology Policy Accelerator (TPA) at the Hoover Institution. She is also a Professor of Political Science (by courtesy) at Stanford University, and a Senior Fellow at Stanford's Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence Institute and the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies. The author of five books, she specializes in U.S. intelligence, emerging technologies and national security, grand strategy, and global political risk management. Zegart's award-winning research includes the leading academic study of intelligence failures before 9/11: Spying Blind: The CIA, the FBI, and the Origins of 9/11. Her most recent book is the bestseller Spies, Lies, and Algorithms: The History and Future of American Intelligence (Princeton, 2022), which was nominated by Princeton University Press for the Pulitzer Prize. Her op-eds and essays have appeared in Foreign Affairs, Politico, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal. Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.   ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Ely Ratner sit down to discuss challenging security environment in the Indo-Pacific region, the specific goals and ambitions of China in the Western Pacific and East Asia, their experiences in the Biden Administration and the state of the alliance system in the region, based off his recent Foreign Affairs Piece, “The Case for a Pacific Defense Pact”. The two scholars touch on continuity between both the Biden and Trump administrations’ strategy in the Indo-Pacific, but also increasing intra-Asian cooperation and awareness between nations as the China threat grows. They conclude with a conversation about what a Pacific Defense Pact would look like, including the importance of long-term credible deterrence, how other partners could be brought in, and aligning objectives to help create a viable collective defense. Recorded on June 11, 2025. ABOUT THE SPEAKERS Ely Ratner is Principal at the Marathon Initiative. From 2021 to 2025, he served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Indo-Pacific Security Affairs in the Biden administration. From 2015 to 2017, he was Deputy National Security Adviser to then-Vice President Joe Biden. He previously served in the State Department’s office of Chinese and Mongolian affairs and as a staff member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He previously held the Maurice R. Greenberg Senior Fellowship for China studies at the Council on Foreign Relations and was Executive Vice President and Director of Studies at the Center for a New American Security. Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.   ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Michael McFaul, a seasoned expert in international studies and former U.S. Ambassador to Russia, discusses the intricate dynamics between the U.S., China, and Russia. He shares insights on the 'Russia Reset' initiative and his experiences during turbulent times in Russia. The conversation highlights the growing partnership between Putin and Xi Jinping, the impact of the Ukraine war on global alliances, and strategic advice for U.S. engagement. McFaul emphasizes the complexities of diplomacy and the need to reevaluate foreign policy in light of shifting power dynamics.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Šumit Ganguly sit down to discuss the recent conflict between India and Pakistan, the roots of the conflict between the two nations, and how the United States and China fit into the relationship. Ganguly starts out by giving listeners an overview of the cross-border clashes in early May, where the tension from the two nations stems from; originating over a land dispute along religious lines in the state of Kashmir during the formation of India and Pakistan in the aftermath of the fall of the British Empire in Southern Asia. The two then shift to a conversation about how foreign powers, namely the United States and China, influenced the conflict; namely, through the Pakistani use of Chinese military jets to shoot down several Indian military aircraft, but also how foreign involvement may have helped to bring the conflict to a swift conclusion. Recorded on May 14, 2025. ABOUT THE SPEAKERS Šumit Ganguly is a Senior Fellow and directs the Huntington Program on Strengthening US-India Relations at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He is Distinguished Professor of Political Science Emeritus and the Rabindranath Tagore Chair in Indian Cultures and Civilizations Emeritus at Indiana University, Bloomington. He has previously taught at James Madison College of Michigan State University, Hunter College, the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, and the University of Texas at Austin. Professor Ganguly has been a Fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in Washington, DC, a Visiting Fellow at the Center for International Security and Cooperation and at the Center on Democracy, Development and the Rule of Law at Stanford University, a Guest Scholar at the Center for Cooperative Monitoring in Albuquerque and a Visiting Scholar at the German Institute for International and Area Studies in Hamburg. He was also the holder of the Ngee Ann Chair in International Politics at the Rajaratnam School for International Studies at Nanyang Technological University in Singapore in the spring term of 2010. In 2018 and 2019, he was an Alexander von Humboldt Fellow at the University of Heidelberg, Germany. Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.   ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

In this engaging discussion, Susan Schwab, former U.S. Trade Representative with over three decades of experience, shares insights on the intricate U.S.-China trade relationship. She delves into the implications of President Trump’s controversial tariffs and the motivations behind them. The conversation highlights the challenges of negotiating within a presidential administration, the necessity of engaging allies, and the importance of adhering to global trade rules while addressing economic tensions. Schwab also emphasizes strategic shifts and a collaborative approach to tackle China's rising influence.

Longtime friends Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Michael Dunne sit down to discuss the transformation of the Chinese automobile industry, the roots of electric vehicles in China, the demand for electric vehicles (EV) both in the United States and globally, and how the United States can best compete in a rapidly changing environment. Dunne details the early days of the Chinese EV revolution, a quiet transformation that came to a head at the 2023 Shanghai auto show and has now resulted in China becoming a global leader in EVs. The two also touch on how the conversation around electric autos has shifted from a concern that focuses on climate change on green energy to now one that encompasses national security and critical supply chains. They conclude by discussing how America can best compete in this shifting industry, and how the country must “get out of its comfort zone” in order to do so effectively.  ABOUT THE SPEAKERS Michael Dunne is the Chief Executive Officer of Dunne Insights LLC, an advisory firm with expertise in global electric vehicle markets and battery supply chains. He is also an LP at Assembly Ventures, a Michigan-based venture capital company. Dunne is the author of the Wall Street Journal acclaimed book, American Wheels, Chinese Roads. Dunne was previously the President of General Motors Indonesia and, before that, the Managing Director of JD Power operations in China. He worked in Asia for 25 years as an entrepreneur and an executive in China, Vietnam, Thailand, and Indonesia. Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs.   ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.