

Ministry Deep Dive
Travis Michael Fleming
Ministry Deep Dive is a podcast from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics. Each episode goes beneath the surface of ministry to explore the challenges, opportunities, and practices shaping today’s leaders. From discipleship and cultural engagement to spiritual formation and public theology, we wrestle with the big questions and everyday realities pastors, missionaries, and Christian leaders face.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 12, 2021 • 49min
#58 | Words To Live By
When I was a kid, I remember my mother saying stuff like, "Make new friends but keep the old. One is silver and the other is gold." And "See a penny pick it up, all day long, you will have good luck." When we were walking on a sidewalk she would warn me to not step on the crack because it would break her back! My mom was a little superstitious and by teaching me some of those little sayings, I became a little superstitious too. But when I gave my life to Jesus and started reading the Word of God, I slowly saw how superstitious and wrong some of those ideas were. I exchanged the little diddy's my mother taught for some better words to live by--the words of God.We all have little expressions we have been taught over the years by parents, grandparents, friends, aunts, uncles, cousins, teachers, coaches, etc. But if we want to find peace, live a life of purpose, then we need to abandon old ways and replace them with that which is truly dependable -the Word of God. In this week's episode, Travis explores another episode from the life of the early church with Stephen's sermon. He recites Israel's story passed down from previous generations. They were words that he had lived by and he was showing his fellow Jews, and us today, how we can live and order our lives by Jesus, the one true Son of God. Listen in and see his words and how his words can become the words you live by. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

May 11, 2021 • 1h 3min
#57 | How To Build Bridges With Muslims | Fouad Masri
Islam is on the rise. More than ever we are interacting with Muslims, but most of the time what we know about Islam is only what the media tells us. Join Travis as he has a Deep Conversation with Fouad Masri. Fouad is the founder of the Crescent Project which seeks to train Christians to build bridges with Muslims so that they too may know who Jesus really is. He is more than a prophet, but the incarnate Son of God who is the only means of salvation. They discuss many of the training opportunities that the Crescent Project has to help train you to water your world with the Good News of Jesus. They talk about Fouad's growing up in Lebanon, Lebanese cuisine, and shwarma. And the need for a good Middle Eastern restaurant in your neighborhood! Check out The Crescent Project, Fouad's books, Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

May 7, 2021 • 41min
#56 | Succeeding The Example of Stephen
We all need examples to follow. From the time we are young, we need people to show us different things. Whether it is how to shoot a basketball, how to run a business, how to cook, clean properly, we all are looking for examples to follow. Biblically speaking, we have one of the greatest examples in the ministry of Stephen. He shows us what it means to be a Christ-follower, to be people of conviction, service, courage, fortitude, and trust. He stood for truth, helped people, but also made some enemies in the process. If you need encouragement today, then join Travis as he explores another episode in the early church in Acts 6:8-15 and shows us how we might fulfill God's purpose for our lives in the midst of a sinful world. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

May 3, 2021 • 35min
#55 | The Beautiful Community, Pt. 2 | Irwyn L. Ince, Jr.
Travis and Irwyn continue their conversation about Irwyn's book, The Beautiful Community, and how we have a tendency to ghettoize ourselves. Yes, "ghettoize" is a word! They also talk about their children, obstacles to being part of God's beautiful community, and the blessings of God when people pursue it. Hint, the world sees Jesus through it (John 17:21). Learn more about Irwyn and his work at the Grace DC Institute for Cross-Cultural Mission.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: The podcast delves into the theological implications of ethnicity and race, highlighting the importance of unity in diversity as a reflection of God's desire for His people. Travis Michael Fleming and Irwyn Ince, Jr. engage in a profound discussion about the concept of Beautiful Community, emphasizing the need for reconciliation and authentic relationships across cultural divides. Listeners are encouraged to explore the challenges inherent in creating a truly diverse church environment, addressing issues such as minority fatigue and the sacrifices made by individuals from minority cultures. The conversation underscores the necessity of understanding the cost of belonging for ethnic minorities in predominantly majority culture churches, advocating for deeper awareness and genuine hospitality. The episode references the divine dance of the Trinity to illustrate the beauty of mutual support and glorification in community, inviting listeners to appreciate the richness of diversity. Practical tools, such as the Intercultural Development Inventory, are discussed as means to assess and enhance intercultural competence within church communities, promoting effective engagement across cultural differences.

May 1, 2021 • 37min
#54 | Growing Pains
Growing in Christ isn't easy. It is part of this community called a church that can be in a word...messy. People say that they like Jesus, but not the church, but the church is the Body of Christ-and as such it is not optional in God's economy. We need community-even though it is messed up at times. But, this is nothing new. It has always been filled with characters, confusion, and a bit of chaos. The early church is the same. Listen in as Travis examines another episode in the early church's life and shows us how the two really do reflect each other and the early church gives us some much-needed lessons for today. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Apr 26, 2021 • 46min
#53 | The Beautiful Community, Pt. 1 | Irwyn L. Ince, Jr.
Travis & Irwyn L. Ince, Jr. talk about the church and ethnicity, as well as Irwyn's award-winning book, The Beautiful Community. It's God's wonderful mosaic, whereby, we in all of our diversity come together to form a picture of Christ to the world. But there are many obstacles along the way-ghettoization being one. They also talk about comics, Run DMC, the PCA, and how both of their daughters suffer may well suffer from misophonia :-)Learn more about Irwyn and his work at the Grace DC Institute for Cross-Cultural Mission.Change your world (and make your family proud!) by supporting the ministry of Apollos Watered.Takeaways: The concept of a beautiful community necessitates a commitment to unity among diverse backgrounds, encapsulating God's intention for human relationships. Dr. Irwyn Ince Jr. exemplifies the journey of a second-generation immigrant navigating cultural expectations within the context of marriage ceremonies. The podcast discusses the importance of recognizing and addressing racial inequalities, emphasizing the church's role in fostering reconciliation and understanding. Travis Michael Fleming and Irwyn Ince Jr. articulate the significance of pursuing cross-cultural relationships as a reflection of Christ’s love and the church's mission. The dialogue highlights the necessity of theological underpinnings in addressing societal issues, particularly regarding diversity and inclusion within the church. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own communities and consider how they can actively participate in creating a more inclusive and beautiful community in faith.

Apr 22, 2021 • 41min
#52 | God On The Move
What happens when God works in your life? How do people usually respond? Travis delves into Acts 5:12-42 and shows us that the responses we receive are not unique to us, but by looking at them and their experiences, we can find strength. C.S. Lewis reminds us time and time again that our God is not tame, but He is good and even our sufferings He will co-opt and use for our good. Listen in and find out how! Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Apr 16, 2021 • 37min
#51 | Ministering in Hollywood, Pt. 2 | Jeremy Treat
Travis & Jeremy continue their discussion on what its like pastoring in LA and how the Kingdom of God shapes everything about how we see the world. We subscribe more than a lifeboat theology whereby we simply seek to save people out of the world (although that is a big part of it!), but it is looking at all of life through the lens of what it means to be a Christ-follower -- how do we view such things as beauty, race, culture, etc? Do they even have a place in the worldview of a Christian? Listen in and find out!Learn more about Reality LA, The Gospel Coalition, and get his book Seek First: How The Kingdom of God Changes Everything.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: In the podcast, we delve into the complexities of ministering in Hollywood, revealing the unexpected spiritual openness of its residents, shaped by diverse beliefs and practices. Travis and Jeremy discuss the significance of understanding the Kingdom of God, emphasizing that it transcends mere individual salvation and encompasses a holistic view of life under God's sovereignty. The conversation highlights the challenges faced by ministry in transient cities like Los Angeles, where individuals frequently cycle in and out due to the relentless pursuit of dreams and fame. We explore the importance of redeeming ambition and vocation, encouraging individuals to align their artistic aspirations with the glory of God, thereby fostering a deeper understanding of their purpose. Jeremy articulates the necessity of addressing sin within a gospel framework that prioritizes dignity and creation, advocating for an approach that acknowledges human brokenness while pointing to Christ as the ultimate remedy. The podcast underscores the call for the church to embrace its global identity, drawing from diverse cultural perspectives to enrich the understanding of the Kingdom of God and its implications for ministry.

Apr 13, 2021 • 33min
#50 | Ministering in Hollywood, Pt. 1 | Jeremy Treat
Travis & Jeremy discuss the Clippers, postmodernism, multi-ethnic theologians, beauty, and how discipleship differs in different regions of the United States, specifically Hollywood. Ministering in Hollywood is not as glamorous as you would think. In fact, it is much more like an urban environment. Learn more about Reality LA, The Gospel Coalition, and get his book Seek First: How The Kingdom of God Changes Everything.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: Travis Michael Fleming introduces the episode, emphasizing the importance of saturating one's faith with the teachings of God. Jeremy Treat recounts his transformative childhood experiences in Alaska and the subsequent move to Seattle, impacting his faith journey. The conversation delves into Jeremy's realization that Christianity hinges on God's grace rather than personal achievements or self-righteousness. A notable highlight includes Jeremy's passion for teaching theology, stemming from his early encounters with the writings of C.S. Lewis. Jeremy shares the significant role of his father in shaping his character and resilience through adversity in their family's history. The episode concludes with reflections on the mission of Reality LA, aimed at renewing the city through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Apr 9, 2021 • 49min
#49 | Can the Enneagram Be Used in Church? Pt. 2 | Todd Wilson
Can the Enneagram be used in church? Should the Enneagram be in church? Join Travis as talks with Todd Wilson about his book, The Enneagram Goes to Church and how it can help or hinder church life. They discuss the Enneagram, worship, pastoral ministry, preaching, and a whole lot more! Learn more about Todd, The Center for Pastor Theologians, and be sure to check out the book as well as his many other books.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!


