

Ministry Deep Dive
Travis Michael Fleming
Ministry Deep Dive is a podcast from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics. Each episode goes beneath the surface of ministry to explore the challenges, opportunities, and practices shaping today’s leaders. From discipleship and cultural engagement to spiritual formation and public theology, we wrestle with the big questions and everyday realities pastors, missionaries, and Christian leaders face.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 7, 2021 • 41min
#56 | Succeeding The Example of Stephen
We all need examples to follow. From the time we are young, we need people to show us different things. Whether it is how to shoot a basketball, how to run a business, how to cook, clean properly, we all are looking for examples to follow. Biblically speaking, we have one of the greatest examples in the ministry of Stephen. He shows us what it means to be a Christ-follower, to be people of conviction, service, courage, fortitude, and trust. He stood for truth, helped people, but also made some enemies in the process. If you need encouragement today, then join Travis as he explores another episode in the early church in Acts 6:8-15 and shows us how we might fulfill God's purpose for our lives in the midst of a sinful world. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

May 3, 2021 • 35min
#55 | The Beautiful Community, Pt. 2 | Irwyn L. Ince, Jr.
Travis and Irwyn continue their conversation about Irwyn's book, The Beautiful Community, and how we have a tendency to ghettoize ourselves. Yes, "ghettoize" is a word! They also talk about their children, obstacles to being part of God's beautiful community, and the blessings of God when people pursue it. Hint, the world sees Jesus through it (John 17:21). Learn more about Irwyn and his work at the Grace DC Institute for Cross-Cultural Mission.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: The podcast delves into the theological implications of ethnicity and race, highlighting the importance of unity in diversity as a reflection of God's desire for His people. Travis Michael Fleming and Irwyn Ince, Jr. engage in a profound discussion about the concept of Beautiful Community, emphasizing the need for reconciliation and authentic relationships across cultural divides. Listeners are encouraged to explore the challenges inherent in creating a truly diverse church environment, addressing issues such as minority fatigue and the sacrifices made by individuals from minority cultures. The conversation underscores the necessity of understanding the cost of belonging for ethnic minorities in predominantly majority culture churches, advocating for deeper awareness and genuine hospitality. The episode references the divine dance of the Trinity to illustrate the beauty of mutual support and glorification in community, inviting listeners to appreciate the richness of diversity. Practical tools, such as the Intercultural Development Inventory, are discussed as means to assess and enhance intercultural competence within church communities, promoting effective engagement across cultural differences.

May 1, 2021 • 37min
#54 | Growing Pains
Growing in Christ isn't easy. It is part of this community called a church that can be in a word...messy. People say that they like Jesus, but not the church, but the church is the Body of Christ-and as such it is not optional in God's economy. We need community-even though it is messed up at times. But, this is nothing new. It has always been filled with characters, confusion, and a bit of chaos. The early church is the same. Listen in as Travis examines another episode in the early church's life and shows us how the two really do reflect each other and the early church gives us some much-needed lessons for today. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Apr 26, 2021 • 46min
#53 | The Beautiful Community, Pt. 1 | Irwyn L. Ince, Jr.
Travis & Irwyn L. Ince, Jr. talk about the church and ethnicity, as well as Irwyn's award-winning book, The Beautiful Community. It's God's wonderful mosaic, whereby, we in all of our diversity come together to form a picture of Christ to the world. But there are many obstacles along the way-ghettoization being one. They also talk about comics, Run DMC, the PCA, and how both of their daughters suffer may well suffer from misophonia :-)Learn more about Irwyn and his work at the Grace DC Institute for Cross-Cultural Mission.Change your world (and make your family proud!) by supporting the ministry of Apollos Watered.Takeaways: The concept of a beautiful community necessitates a commitment to unity among diverse backgrounds, encapsulating God's intention for human relationships. Dr. Irwyn Ince Jr. exemplifies the journey of a second-generation immigrant navigating cultural expectations within the context of marriage ceremonies. The podcast discusses the importance of recognizing and addressing racial inequalities, emphasizing the church's role in fostering reconciliation and understanding. Travis Michael Fleming and Irwyn Ince Jr. articulate the significance of pursuing cross-cultural relationships as a reflection of Christ’s love and the church's mission. The dialogue highlights the necessity of theological underpinnings in addressing societal issues, particularly regarding diversity and inclusion within the church. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own communities and consider how they can actively participate in creating a more inclusive and beautiful community in faith.

Apr 22, 2021 • 41min
#52 | God On The Move
What happens when God works in your life? How do people usually respond? Travis delves into Acts 5:12-42 and shows us that the responses we receive are not unique to us, but by looking at them and their experiences, we can find strength. C.S. Lewis reminds us time and time again that our God is not tame, but He is good and even our sufferings He will co-opt and use for our good. Listen in and find out how! Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Apr 16, 2021 • 37min
#51 | Ministering in Hollywood, Pt. 2 | Jeremy Treat
Travis & Jeremy continue their discussion on what its like pastoring in LA and how the Kingdom of God shapes everything about how we see the world. We subscribe more than a lifeboat theology whereby we simply seek to save people out of the world (although that is a big part of it!), but it is looking at all of life through the lens of what it means to be a Christ-follower -- how do we view such things as beauty, race, culture, etc? Do they even have a place in the worldview of a Christian? Listen in and find out!Learn more about Reality LA, The Gospel Coalition, and get his book Seek First: How The Kingdom of God Changes Everything.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: In the podcast, we delve into the complexities of ministering in Hollywood, revealing the unexpected spiritual openness of its residents, shaped by diverse beliefs and practices. Travis and Jeremy discuss the significance of understanding the Kingdom of God, emphasizing that it transcends mere individual salvation and encompasses a holistic view of life under God's sovereignty. The conversation highlights the challenges faced by ministry in transient cities like Los Angeles, where individuals frequently cycle in and out due to the relentless pursuit of dreams and fame. We explore the importance of redeeming ambition and vocation, encouraging individuals to align their artistic aspirations with the glory of God, thereby fostering a deeper understanding of their purpose. Jeremy articulates the necessity of addressing sin within a gospel framework that prioritizes dignity and creation, advocating for an approach that acknowledges human brokenness while pointing to Christ as the ultimate remedy. The podcast underscores the call for the church to embrace its global identity, drawing from diverse cultural perspectives to enrich the understanding of the Kingdom of God and its implications for ministry.

Apr 13, 2021 • 33min
#50 | Ministering in Hollywood, Pt. 1 | Jeremy Treat
Travis & Jeremy discuss the Clippers, postmodernism, multi-ethnic theologians, beauty, and how discipleship differs in different regions of the United States, specifically Hollywood. Ministering in Hollywood is not as glamorous as you would think. In fact, it is much more like an urban environment. Learn more about Reality LA, The Gospel Coalition, and get his book Seek First: How The Kingdom of God Changes Everything.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: Travis Michael Fleming introduces the episode, emphasizing the importance of saturating one's faith with the teachings of God. Jeremy Treat recounts his transformative childhood experiences in Alaska and the subsequent move to Seattle, impacting his faith journey. The conversation delves into Jeremy's realization that Christianity hinges on God's grace rather than personal achievements or self-righteousness. A notable highlight includes Jeremy's passion for teaching theology, stemming from his early encounters with the writings of C.S. Lewis. Jeremy shares the significant role of his father in shaping his character and resilience through adversity in their family's history. The episode concludes with reflections on the mission of Reality LA, aimed at renewing the city through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Apr 9, 2021 • 49min
#49 | Can the Enneagram Be Used in Church? Pt. 2 | Todd Wilson
Can the Enneagram be used in church? Should the Enneagram be in church? Join Travis as talks with Todd Wilson about his book, The Enneagram Goes to Church and how it can help or hinder church life. They discuss the Enneagram, worship, pastoral ministry, preaching, and a whole lot more! Learn more about Todd, The Center for Pastor Theologians, and be sure to check out the book as well as his many other books.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 30, 2021 • 56min
#48 | Can the Enneagram Be Used in Church? Pt. 1 | Todd Wilson
The Enneagram seems to be everywhere! So many evangelical Christians have been discussing the Enneagram. What do we do with it? Join Travis as he talks with special guest, Todd A. Wilson, co-founder of the Center for Pastor Theologians about his new book, The Enneagram Goes to Church. What does the Enneagram have to do with church? What does it have to do with pastoral ministry? Church life? Preaching? Worship? Shepherding? Can churches actually take on an Enneagram number? Listen in as they talk about the Enneagram, church, germs, 80's basketball, and how the monumental moments of Todd's life happen in American restaurants! Learn more about Todd, The Center for Pastor Theologians, and be sure to check out the book as well as his many other books.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 25, 2021 • 41min
#47 | Scared Straight
The book of Acts may seem like it's far removed from our world, but it's surprisingly not. It is a snapshot of people just like us with God's Spirit working in their lives in ways that seem common but are quite transformational. So many Christians get caught up in the supernatural aspect of things that they fail to miss the overall heartbeat and see how people were transformed. We see generosity, sacrifice, compassion, desires for honor, an act of hypocrisy, and a swift response from God. What can we learn from this and apply to our lives? Listen in and find out as Travis' takes us through one of the episodes in the life of the early church through the end of Acts 4 and the beginning of Acts 5!Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!