

Ministry Deep Dive
Travis Michael Fleming
Ministry Deep Dive is a podcast from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics. Each episode goes beneath the surface of ministry to explore the challenges, opportunities, and practices shaping today’s leaders. From discipleship and cultural engagement to spiritual formation and public theology, we wrestle with the big questions and everyday realities pastors, missionaries, and Christian leaders face.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jan 14, 2022 • 41min
#86 | Hospitality, Modeling, & Taking a Risk for Christ, Pt. 1 | Ruth Ripken
Travis welcomes Ruth Ripken to the show! On the mission field, we often hear reports of what God is doing, but often we don't hear about what it's like for the families. Ruth draws back the curtain on what mission in a foreign world is like for families, enabling us to see the mission of God more holistically. Additionally, Ruth gives us a glimpse behind the veil at the women in a society where roles are more often concrete and unavailable or overlooked by men. Along with that, Travis and Ruth discuss her childhood desire to be a missionary, the University of Kentucky, shopping, cooking, mission work, families, storytelling as an outreach tool, and Nik's tendency to put his foot in his mouth! Learn more about Nik Ripken Ministries, the book, and the movie. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Dec 31, 2021 • 1h 13min
#85 | Why Are There Four Gospels? | Michael Card
Travis is joined by special guest musician, author, farmer, and Bible teacher, Michael Card. Travis and Michael discuss the voices of the Gospels. Why did God give us four gospels when one would have been sufficient? They discuss Michael's career, his upbringing, influences, passions, tractors, racial reconciliation, the music industry, being bearded/balding, and the details in the Gospels that bring the Gospel into 4K so that we can understand the truth of who Jesus is and how to apply His truth into our lives today! This was a fun conversation! Learn more about Mike. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Dec 17, 2021 • 52min
#84 | Analog Church | Jay Y. Kim
Travis welcomes Jay Y. Kim to the show. Jay serves as lead pastor of teaching at WestGate Church in the Silicon Valley of CA and teacher-in-residence at Vintage Faith Church in Santa Cruz, CA. He’s also on the leadership team at The ReGeneration Project, where he co-hosts The ReGeneration Podcast. Some of his written work has been featured in Christianity Today, The Gospel Coalition, Relevant, Missio Alliance, Outreach, Pastor Resources, and other places.He’s the author of Analog Church (InterVarsity Press, 2020). It's about the many challenges and opportunities churches face in the digital age, offering a new and hopeful way forward. He is married with two young kids calling the Silicon Valley of California home. You can learn more about Jay here. Travis & Jay discuss online church. Is online church real church? Have we become too technologically dependent? How can we leverage tech for our benefit without losing ourselves in the process? They discuss this and more on today's episode of Apollos Watered!Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Dec 10, 2021 • 57min
#83 | What God Says About Our Bodies? | Sam Allberry
Travis welcomes Sam Allberry to the show! Sam is a pastor, apologist, author, and speaker. He is the author of a number of books, including Is God Anti-Gay?, Why Does God Care Who I Sleep With?, and 7 Myths about Singleness. He has served on staff at RZIM, has been a frequent contributor to the Gospel Coalition, and now serves on staff at Immanuel Nashville.Travis & Sam discuss the difference between Star Trek and Star Wars, karaoke in Asia, Sam's conversion, American vs. British chocolate, and our bodies. They also discuss God's design for our bodies and what happens if we get that wrong? Sam's perspective is unique-very pastoral, sympathetic, but rooted in the truth of the Word of God. It is a good conversation and one that is sure to enlighten and encourage you. Learn more about Sam here and get his books here. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Dec 3, 2021 • 53min
#82 | Why We Need A Theology of the Body | Timothy C. Tennent
Travis Michael Fleming and Timothy Tennent engage in a profound dialogue centered on the pressing need for a robust understanding of the human body within the framework of authentic Christianity. Tennent articulates that the contemporary culture is in desperate need of a Christianity that is genuinely transformative, as superficial expressions of faith fail to resonate with a society seeking depth and authenticity. He emphasizes that true change within individuals can lead to radical expressions of love and acceptance, which are crucial for impacting the world positively. The conversation delves into various critical topics, including the theological implications of gender, sexuality, and the sanctity of the body, all of which are pivotal in navigating the complexities of modern societal challenges. Ultimately, this episode serves as an exhortation to reclaim a biblical understanding of the body, asserting its significance in both our spiritual lives and our interactions with the world around us.Is there a design for the body? Often today we hear people say, “I am not what my body is.” What place does our understanding of the body play in our theology? What difference does that make in regards to such subjects as gender reassignment surgery? Homosexuality? Abortion? Euthanasia? Eating disorders? Today on Apollos Watered, we welcome Dr. Timothy C. Tennent (Ph.D., University of Edinburgh, Scotland) to the show to discuss his book, For the Body: Recovering a Theology of Gender, Sexuality and the Human Body. Dr. Tennent has served as President of Asbury Theological Seminary and Professor of World Christianity since 2009. He is a frequent conference speaker around the country and throughout the world.Prior to his coming to Asbury Theological Seminary, Dr. Tennent was the Professor of World Missions and Indian Studies at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. Ordained in the United Methodist Church in 1984, he has pastored churches in Georgia, and in several of the largest churches in New England. Since 1989, he has taught annually as an adjunct professor at the New Theological College in Dehra Dun, India. He is the author of numerous books and articles. Prior to his most recent book, he has written Building Christianity on Indian Foundations, Christianity at the Religious Roundtable, Theology in the Context of World Christianity, and Invitation to World Missions: A Trinitarian Missiology for the 21st Century.Dr. Tennent and his wife, Julie, reside in Wilmore, Ky. They have two grown children, Jonathan and Bethany.You can learn more about him here and get his latest book here.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!The discourse between Travis Michael Fleming and Timothy Tennent delves into the profound implications of a theological understanding of the body within the context of contemporary Christianity. As Tennent elucidates, the prevalent cultural attitudes towards the body often reflect a fundamental misunderstanding of its significance in Christian doctrine. He posits that the body is not merely a vessel but rather an integral part of our identity, one that is intricately linked to our spiritual existence. The discussion traverses various topics, including the challenges posed by modern societal norms regarding gender, sexuality, and the sanctity of life. Tennent emphasizes that an authentic comprehension of the body can lead to transformative practices within the church community, fostering radical forgiveness, acceptance, and love. It is through such transformation that believers can genuinely engage with and impact a world that often seems disenchanted with superficial expressions of faith. Tennent’s insights serve as a clarion call for a revival of robust theological education and catechesis that honors the body as a creation of God, designed for a higher purpose, ultimately leading to a deeper relationship with Christ and a more profound witness to the world.Takeaways: Authentic Christianity is essential for transforming both individuals and culture, as superficial faith fails to impress. The need for radical love and acceptance is crucial in demonstrating true Christian values in a changing world. Understanding our bodies from a theological perspective is vital, as it influences our views on identity and morality. Recovering a robust theology of the body is necessary to address contemporary issues such as gender identity and sexuality. The church must prioritize catechesis to prepare believers for challenges in a post-Christian society. True transformation comes from deep engagement with Scripture, fostering spiritual growth amidst life's complexities.

Nov 24, 2021 • 1h 16min
#81 | Reaching Those In The Front Row of Your Life, Pt. 2 | Tom Mercer
Travis welcomes Tom Mercer to the show for their second conversation. Tom has been a pastor and leader for over 40 years. Travis & Tom continue discussing the Oikos principle. So many churches have bottlenecks that prevent them from doing what they say they are trying to do and that is reaching people. Getting people in the door to the church is one thing but introducing people to Jesus and helping them follow Jesus is something else altogether. Perhaps the reason why evangelism/discipleship is so messed up is that we are looking at the wrong examples today-we have become consumers getting people in the door, and have focused on the presentation and not the lifestyle that it is in the world. They discuss the 5 steps of the Oikos principle and how to apply them in our lives. It's a practical jam-packed conversation on how to go about winning our worlds. Learn more about Tom and get his book, Not My Church or 8 to 15, The World Is Smaller Than You Think.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Nov 19, 2021 • 48min
#80 | Reaching Those In The Front Row of Your Life, Pt. 1 | Tom Mercer
Travis welcomes Tom Mercer to the show! Tom has been a pastor and leader for over 40 years serving most of that time at High Desert Church in Victorville, California. They discuss Nate Bargatze, Victorville, growing up in a pastor's home, and the Oikos principle. The Oikos Principle-a simple approach to rethink how we share and live out our faith. It's simple when we think about it. What's the number one factor is that God used to bring you to Him? Or maybe a better question is, who was the person who influenced you the most to become a believer? If statistics are right, then it is probably someone you knew well. What does that mean for us? Listen in and find out! Learn more about Tom and get his book, Not My Church or 8 to 15, The World Is Smaller Than You Think.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Nov 12, 2021 • 59min
#79 | Love Thy Body, Pt. 2 | Nancy Pearcey
Travis & Nancy Pearcey (America's pre-eminent evangelical Protestant female intellectual) continue their discussion on embracing God's design for the body, defending the faith by drawing attention to inconsistencies in worldviews, stories of life change of those who have embraced God's design, the importance of language and much more. At the center of their discussion is Nancy's insightful and hope-filled book, "Love Thy Body: Answering Hard Questions About Life And Sexuality." Learn more about Nancy and get her book. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Nov 5, 2021 • 47min
#78 | Love Thy Body, Pt. 1 | Nancy Pearcey
Travis welcomes Nancy Pearcey to the show! In this first part of their conversation, they discuss our view of the body and how it affects us: sexual identity, splits in reality, self, and the search for meaning, especially on how it revolves around our understanding of our bodies and the necessity of having a proper understanding of it. At the center of the conversation is Nancy's book, "Love Thy Body: Answering Hard Questions About Life And Sexuality." They cover a wide range of topics from Nancy's upbringing, her training as a classical violinist, her interactions at L'Abri, Francis Schaeffer, the arts, sexual identity, and a whole lot more! Learn more about Nancy and get her book. More episodes from Nancy:#79 | Love Thy Body, Pt. 2 | Nancy Pearcey#185 | The Toxic War on Masculinity, Pt. 1 | Nancy Pearcey#186 | The Toxic War on Masculinity, Pt. 2 | Nancy PearceyOther episodes dealing with LGBTQ+:#44 | Posh, Pleasures, & Pain: The Life of a Social Media Influencer Turned Christ, Pt. 1 | Sandra Poenar#45 | Posh, Pleasures, & Pain: The Life of a Social Media Influencer Turned Christ, Pt. 2 | Sandra Poenar#83 | What God Says About Our Bodies? | Sam Allberry#132 | Redemption & LGBTQ: Becoming A Man of God, Pt. 1 | John Hannigan#134 | Redemption & LGBTQ: Becoming A Man of God, Pt. 2 | John HanniganSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Oct 29, 2021 • 1h 5min
#77 | Wherever You Find Naked Scripture & the Supernatural, Then You'll Find Scared Evangelicals | Michael S. Heiser
Travis welcomes Dr. Michael S. Heiser to AW! Not only is Mike a world-class scholar, but he enables us to see the naked Bible in its context—even the hard stuff that has left us scratching our heads saying, “What?” He pulls back the curtain on tough passages, often revealing connections we didn’t know were there. Not only that, Mike is not afraid of shedding biblical light on the unseen realm—a place most scholars fear to tread. While many academics are deathly afraid of addressing issues of the unseen realm because it is secretly seen as intellectual suicide for Western academics—Mike takes the challenge head-on—and he doesn’t just do it for academics, but he is committed to making it known to believers all over the world. His audience consists of those who are hungry to know what the Word really says—especially the hard stuff.Mike is insightful, acerbic, sardonic, and doesn't exactly fit the typical categories that people want to put him in, but the question is—is he right in what he is saying? And what does that mean for us? Listen in and find out!Check out the Naked Bible Podcast, learn more about Mike, and MIQLAT.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: The authors of the Bible possessed a worldview distinctly different from contemporary readers, which is crucial for accurate interpretation. It is imperative to engage with the original context of the biblical text rather than relying solely on modern theological constructs. The supernatural worldview prevalent in ancient cultures offers insights that are often overlooked in modern evangelical thought. Understanding the interconnectedness of Scripture through the lens of its ancient authors revitalizes the reading experience and enhances theological coherence.