

Ministry Deep Dive
Travis Michael Fleming
Ministry Deep Dive is a podcast from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics. Each episode goes beneath the surface of ministry to explore the challenges, opportunities, and practices shaping today’s leaders. From discipleship and cultural engagement to spiritual formation and public theology, we wrestle with the big questions and everyday realities pastors, missionaries, and Christian leaders face.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 29, 2022 • 1h 6min
#98 | Living As Christians In A World That Isn't | Travis & Melissa Fleming
This time we have a special guest host! Travis' wife, Melissa Lynn Fleming shakes things up a bit and puts Travis in the hot seat in a deep conversation. They discuss everything! What does it mean to water your world in a world that is divided, confused, and overwhelmed? How do we water our faith when it seems that everyone and everything is fighting for our attention? Melissa and Travis talk about how to live as Christians in a world that isn't. It's a fun and insightful conversation that cuts the trends out and focuses on the timeless truth of God's Word and how we can anchor ourselves in it in a world that seems to be tossed back and forth on the tumultuous waves of our ever-changing culture! It's a great look into the heartbeat of Apollos Watered and how it can help you water your faith so that you can water your world! Sign up for our newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Apr 8, 2022 • 44min
#97 | Grow Your Vision for God and His People | Trillia Newbell
Trillia Newbell joins Travis to discuss diversity, BBQ, Tennessee, parenting, name meanings, Bed & Breakfast, places we live, music, Motown, the sin of partiality, cultures, crime TV shows, frog legs, pigs' feet, Andrew Zimmerman, French beaches, and the need for unity in the church today to increase our view of God. Along the way, they discuss her newest book, "The Big Wide Welcome Storybook" for kids!Learn more about Trillia.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: In the podcast, we delve into the concept of partiality within the church and its implications on community dynamics. Trillia Newbell discusses the importance of understanding favoritism and its pervasive effects across socioeconomic and racial lines. The conversation emphasizes the need for churches to embrace diversity and reject the sin of partiality to fulfill their mission effectively. Both speakers advocate for a broader interpretation of biblical principles regarding favoritism in order to foster inclusivity. The episode highlights personal stories illustrating the challenges faced in interracial marriages and the importance of cultural sensitivity. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own biases and consider how they can actively promote inclusivity within their communities.

Apr 1, 2022 • 47min
#96 | Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 2 | Felicia Wu Song
In this second part of Travis' conversation w/Felicia Wu Song, they continue their discussion on her most recent book, Restless Devices-Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place In the Digital Age. They delve into The Freedom Project and explore the counter exercises that we can employ to stifle tech's conforming practices.They discuss counter-liturgies, social imaginaries (what stories we tell ourselves are worth striving for and being shaped by), performing ancient Christian traditions & practices that help shape us, Charles Taylor, selfies as formative, Gen X, programming VCRs, empty inboxes, second-second life, rhythms, Sabbath, sacred space, embodiment, Jesus' bodily suffering, and much more! Learn more about Felicia and get her book.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 25, 2022 • 56min
#95 | Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 1 | Felicia Wu Song
Travis welcomes Felicia Wu Song to the show to discuss her most recent book, Restless Devices-Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place In the Digital Age. They discuss how our technology is shaping us spiritually and our need to adopt practices that enable us to counter the effect of tech on our souls. Their conversation is informative, fun, and wide-ranging-moving from tech and the importance of examining its effect on our souls, parenting, spiritual formation, discipleship, Neil Postman, G.K. Chesterton, 80's cartoons, snacks, and Amish people. Learn more about Felicia and get her book.Learn more about how our devices and tech are shaping us:#96 | Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 2 | Felicia Wu Song#84 | Analog Church | Jay Y. Kim#90 | The Wisdom Pyramid & Starving Our Souls With Digital Sugar, Pt. 1 | Brett McCracken#92 | The Wisdom Pyramid & Starving Our Souls With Digital Sugar, Pt. 2 | Brett McCracken#160 | Analog Christian | Jay Y. KimSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 18, 2022 • 46min
#94 | Misconceptions of Persecution & Pain in Contemporary Christianity, Pt 2 | Nik Ripken
The paramount issue addressed in this discussion is the alarming absence of paternal figures within Western church life, particularly regarding their role in leading family worship within the home. Travis Michael Fleming and Nik Ripken engage in a profound dialogue that underscores the necessity for fathers to embrace their spiritual leadership, as this is deemed the most critical element missing from contemporary Christian practice. They explore the implications of modernity, including the incessant busyness that permeates our lives, which often detracts from meaningful familial connections and the nurturing of faith. Moreover, the conversation highlights the significance of hospitality and community, advocating for homes to become centers of worship and relationship-building, rather than mere retreats from the external world. Ultimately, this exchange serves as a clarion call for introspection and action, urging listeners to consider how they might cultivate a more vibrant spiritual life within their families and communities.Travis and Nik are together once more, but this time they delve deep into the family unit, juxtaposing the family on the mission field to a family on mission in the West. Ministry begins in the home and it is precisely in the home that many ministries are lost. It may not be disobedience as much as a distraction, not so much about belief, but busyness. Why are we so busy? Why are we so distracted? Before trying to figure out how to disciple or lead, we need to figure out what the currents and obstacles are that are keeping us moving and preventing us from moving forward. When we pause, we can see that many of the blessings we have received can quickly turn into burdens and blockades if not put into their proper place. Using his time on the mission field as a template, Nik invites us to rediscover effective mission in our Western context. Rather than inventing new approaches, we return to the simple ways of previous generations who opened their homes, practiced hospitality, and built relationships so that others may know the truth of Jesus Christ. Takeaways: The absence of fathers leading worship in Western homes is a significant issue. Nik Ripken emphasizes the importance of familial relationships in nurturing faith. The modern culture's busyness often detracts from the spiritual upbringing of children. Hospitality should be a hallmark of Christian homes, fostering community and sharing life. The need for men to embrace their roles as spiritual leaders is critical in today's society. The church should not be a separate entity from the home, but rather an extension of it. Learn more about Nik Ripken Ministries, the book, and the movie. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 18, 2022 • 52min
#93 | Misconceptions of Persecution & Pain in Contemporary Christianity, Pt 1 | Nik Ripken
Travis Michael Fleming and Nik Ripken engage in a profound discourse on the pressing topic of persecution within the Christian faith, aptly encapsulated by the notion of "the Insanity of Obedience." The primary thesis presented posits that the manner in which individuals respond to persecution is critical, particularly in contexts where the stakes are life and death, as evidenced by the harrowing experiences of believers in Somalia. They emphasize the necessity of understanding the cultural and contextual dynamics at play, advocating for a nuanced approach that prioritizes relationships and a deep comprehension of local realities over simplistic or Western-centric strategies. Throughout their dialogue, the speakers challenge listeners to reconsider their perceptions of obedience in the face of adversity, drawing attention to the profound implications of one's actions and beliefs in the realm of faith. This episode serves as a clarion call to cultivate a more empathetic and informed perspective towards those enduring persecution globally, urging a reevaluation of our collective responsibilities as bearers of the gospel.Travis Michael Fleming and Nik Ripken engage in a profound discourse on the pressing topic of persecution within the Christian faith, aptly encapsulated by the notion of "the Insanity of Obedience." The primary thesis presented posits that the manner in which individuals respond to persecution is critical, particularly in contexts where the stakes are life and death, as evidenced by the harrowing experiences of believers in Somalia. They emphasize the necessity of understanding the cultural and contextual dynamics at play, advocating for a nuanced approach that prioritizes relationships and a deep comprehension of local realities over simplistic or Western-centric strategies. Throughout their dialogue, the speakers challenge listeners to reconsider their perceptions of obedience in the face of adversity, drawing attention to the profound implications of one's actions and beliefs in the realm of faith. This episode serves as a clarion call to cultivate a more empathetic and informed perspective towards those enduring persecution globally, urging a reevaluation of our collective responsibilities as bearers of the gospel.Travis welcomes Nik Ripken back to the show! This time Travis & Nik discuss his book, The Insanity of Obedience, and the many modern misconceptions of how we go about mission in the modern world. At the heart of their conversation is the subject of persecution and how we handle it opposed to how the Bible presents it. This conversation goes beyond the fact that persecution exists, instead, Nik presents the question-why are people being persecuted? It's not simply because people are believers in Christ-there is much more involved. It involves the methods we employ to communicate the message of Jesus. Could it be that the methods that we have employed to get the message out, actually cause more problems than they solve? Could it be that we need to rethink how we communicate and what methods we are reliant on? Listen in and find out! Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: The discussion elucidates the profound implications of persecution on believers, particularly those in Somalia, who face threats for their faith and associations. Travis Michael Fleming and Nik Ripken challenge listeners to reconsider their understanding of persecution and its role in spreading the Gospel effectively. The notion of being 'sheep among wolves' is presented as a metaphor for vulnerability in the face of persecution, highlighting the need for wisdom in witnessing. Nik Ripken's experiences reveal that cultural context is paramount when sharing the Gospel, as Western methods may inadvertently endanger lives in hostile environments.

Mar 4, 2022 • 42min
#92 | The Wisdom Pyramid & Starving Our Souls With Digital Sugar, Pt. 2 | Brett McCracken
Travis and Brett McCracken continue their conversation about the wisdom pyramid. They talk through the benefits and burdens of technology, the culture of disposable, perceptual presentism, the need for. rest and boredom, passive scrolling, the digital natives of today and other subjects such as the Amish, Starbucks, squirrels skiing, five habits for cultivating wisdom online, and counter liturgy. Brett is a senior editor and director of communications for The Gospel Coalition. He has written for The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Huffington Post, CNN.com, Christianity Today, and many other publications. A graduate of Wheaton College and UCLA (M.A. in Cinema & Media Studies), Brett lives in Santa Ana, California with his wife Kira and two sons, Chet and Ira. He is an elder at Southlands Church Santa Ana.Travis and Brett discuss his newest book, The Wisdom Pyramid: Feeding Your Soul in a Post-Truth World (Crossway, 2021). We have the food pyramid to show us what we need to eat and in what amounts, but what about the content for our souls? Where does that fit? Brett opens up the door, drawing our souls into Christ, but shows us how to live in an information-saturated world. We can't escape it, but we can regulate it and Brett is here to be a guide. It's a fascinating and varied discussion on technology, social media, batman, art, foods, our craving and need for beauty, and a whole lot more. But it is their focus on the pyramid that helps give order to our soul formation. Subscribe to Brett’s blog here. Or follow him on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 1, 2022 • 39min
#91 | The Crisis in Ukraine-Special Episode w/ Wayne Shepherd
On this special episode of Apollos Watered, Travis welcomes radio veteran Wayne Shepherd to the show to discuss the crisis in Ukraine. Wayne's voice has been heard all around the world. He has been in Christian radio for decades working with some of the who's who of evangelical Christianity and host of First Person with Wayne Shepherd a weekly radio/podcast interview program that introduces you to people whose lives have been redeemed by Jesus Christ and called to serve Him in a unique way.What many may not realize is that he has a special place in his heart for Ukraine and has been working with ministries such as Mission Eurasia and The Far East Broadcasting Company for years.Travis and Wayne discuss the situation as well as give us some tips on how to pray and where to give in order to best help those affected by such a senseless tragedy. You can donate to Mission Eurasia or to the Far East Broadcasting Company. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 25, 2022 • 48min
#90 | The Wisdom Pyramid & Starving Our Souls With Digital Sugar, Pt. 1 | Brett McCracken
Travis welcomes Brett McCracken to the show. Brett is a senior editor and director of communications for The Gospel Coalition. He has written for The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Huffington Post, CNN.com, Christianity Today, and many other publications. A graduate of Wheaton College and UCLA (M.A. in Cinema & Media Studies), Brett lives in Santa Ana, California with his wife Kira and two sons, Chet and Ira. He is an elder at Southlands Church Santa Ana.Travis and Brett discuss his newest book, The Wisdom Pyramid: Feeding Your Soul in a Post-Truth World (Crossway, 2021). We have the food pyramid to show us what we need to eat and in what amounts, but what about the content for our souls? Where does that fit? Brett opens up the door, drawing our souls into Christ, but shows us how to live in an information-saturated world. We can't escape it, but we can regulate it and Brett is here to be a guide. It's a fascinating and varied discussion on technology, social media, batman, art, foods, our craving and need for beauty, and a whole lot more. But it is their focus on the pyramid that helps give order to our soul formation. Subscribe to Brett’s blog here. Or follow him on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.Other episodes to help you understand technology & how it is forming us:#84 | Analog Church | Jay Y. Kim#95 | Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 1 | Felicia Wu Song#96 Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 2 | Felicia Wu Song#160 | Analog Christian | Jay Y. KimSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 18, 2022 • 48min
#89 | Scripture, Psalms, and Nourishing Your Soul, Pt. 2 | Tremper Longman III
Travis & Tremper welcomes Tremper Longman III back! They talk about the Old Testament Scriptures, the psalms, and how they nourish our souls by speaking to the entirety of the human condition. We need them to show us how to speak to God about the stuff that we are dealing with every day. They discuss C.S. Lewis, Dan Allender & Tremper's book: "God Loves Sex," suffering, Jesus' coming, the perspicuity of Scripture, reading the Bible devotionally, the motivation for Tremper to study the Old Testament and the state of Christian scholarship in the West today. This conversation helps us to think deeper and different than the world around us so that we might be able to truly water our world. Check out any of Tremper's books.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!


