

Ministry Deep Dive
Travis Michael Fleming
Ministry Deep Dive is a podcast from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics. Each episode goes beneath the surface of ministry to explore the challenges, opportunities, and practices shaping today’s leaders. From discipleship and cultural engagement to spiritual formation and public theology, we wrestle with the big questions and everyday realities pastors, missionaries, and Christian leaders face.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 1, 2022 • 47min
#96 | Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 2 | Felicia Wu Song
In this second part of Travis' conversation w/Felicia Wu Song, they continue their discussion on her most recent book, Restless Devices-Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place In the Digital Age. They delve into The Freedom Project and explore the counter exercises that we can employ to stifle tech's conforming practices.They discuss counter-liturgies, social imaginaries (what stories we tell ourselves are worth striving for and being shaped by), performing ancient Christian traditions & practices that help shape us, Charles Taylor, selfies as formative, Gen X, programming VCRs, empty inboxes, second-second life, rhythms, Sabbath, sacred space, embodiment, Jesus' bodily suffering, and much more! Learn more about Felicia and get her book.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 25, 2022 • 56min
#95 | Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 1 | Felicia Wu Song
Travis welcomes Felicia Wu Song to the show to discuss her most recent book, Restless Devices-Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place In the Digital Age. They discuss how our technology is shaping us spiritually and our need to adopt practices that enable us to counter the effect of tech on our souls. Their conversation is informative, fun, and wide-ranging-moving from tech and the importance of examining its effect on our souls, parenting, spiritual formation, discipleship, Neil Postman, G.K. Chesterton, 80's cartoons, snacks, and Amish people. Learn more about Felicia and get her book.Learn more about how our devices and tech are shaping us:#96 | Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 2 | Felicia Wu Song#84 | Analog Church | Jay Y. Kim#90 | The Wisdom Pyramid & Starving Our Souls With Digital Sugar, Pt. 1 | Brett McCracken#92 | The Wisdom Pyramid & Starving Our Souls With Digital Sugar, Pt. 2 | Brett McCracken#160 | Analog Christian | Jay Y. KimSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 18, 2022 • 46min
#94 | Misconceptions of Persecution & Pain in Contemporary Christianity, Pt 2 | Nik Ripken
The paramount issue addressed in this discussion is the alarming absence of paternal figures within Western church life, particularly regarding their role in leading family worship within the home. Travis Michael Fleming and Nik Ripken engage in a profound dialogue that underscores the necessity for fathers to embrace their spiritual leadership, as this is deemed the most critical element missing from contemporary Christian practice. They explore the implications of modernity, including the incessant busyness that permeates our lives, which often detracts from meaningful familial connections and the nurturing of faith. Moreover, the conversation highlights the significance of hospitality and community, advocating for homes to become centers of worship and relationship-building, rather than mere retreats from the external world. Ultimately, this exchange serves as a clarion call for introspection and action, urging listeners to consider how they might cultivate a more vibrant spiritual life within their families and communities.Travis and Nik are together once more, but this time they delve deep into the family unit, juxtaposing the family on the mission field to a family on mission in the West. Ministry begins in the home and it is precisely in the home that many ministries are lost. It may not be disobedience as much as a distraction, not so much about belief, but busyness. Why are we so busy? Why are we so distracted? Before trying to figure out how to disciple or lead, we need to figure out what the currents and obstacles are that are keeping us moving and preventing us from moving forward. When we pause, we can see that many of the blessings we have received can quickly turn into burdens and blockades if not put into their proper place. Using his time on the mission field as a template, Nik invites us to rediscover effective mission in our Western context. Rather than inventing new approaches, we return to the simple ways of previous generations who opened their homes, practiced hospitality, and built relationships so that others may know the truth of Jesus Christ. Takeaways: The absence of fathers leading worship in Western homes is a significant issue. Nik Ripken emphasizes the importance of familial relationships in nurturing faith. The modern culture's busyness often detracts from the spiritual upbringing of children. Hospitality should be a hallmark of Christian homes, fostering community and sharing life. The need for men to embrace their roles as spiritual leaders is critical in today's society. The church should not be a separate entity from the home, but rather an extension of it. Learn more about Nik Ripken Ministries, the book, and the movie. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 18, 2022 • 52min
#93 | Misconceptions of Persecution & Pain in Contemporary Christianity, Pt 1 | Nik Ripken
Travis Michael Fleming and Nik Ripken engage in a profound discourse on the pressing topic of persecution within the Christian faith, aptly encapsulated by the notion of "the Insanity of Obedience." The primary thesis presented posits that the manner in which individuals respond to persecution is critical, particularly in contexts where the stakes are life and death, as evidenced by the harrowing experiences of believers in Somalia. They emphasize the necessity of understanding the cultural and contextual dynamics at play, advocating for a nuanced approach that prioritizes relationships and a deep comprehension of local realities over simplistic or Western-centric strategies. Throughout their dialogue, the speakers challenge listeners to reconsider their perceptions of obedience in the face of adversity, drawing attention to the profound implications of one's actions and beliefs in the realm of faith. This episode serves as a clarion call to cultivate a more empathetic and informed perspective towards those enduring persecution globally, urging a reevaluation of our collective responsibilities as bearers of the gospel.Travis Michael Fleming and Nik Ripken engage in a profound discourse on the pressing topic of persecution within the Christian faith, aptly encapsulated by the notion of "the Insanity of Obedience." The primary thesis presented posits that the manner in which individuals respond to persecution is critical, particularly in contexts where the stakes are life and death, as evidenced by the harrowing experiences of believers in Somalia. They emphasize the necessity of understanding the cultural and contextual dynamics at play, advocating for a nuanced approach that prioritizes relationships and a deep comprehension of local realities over simplistic or Western-centric strategies. Throughout their dialogue, the speakers challenge listeners to reconsider their perceptions of obedience in the face of adversity, drawing attention to the profound implications of one's actions and beliefs in the realm of faith. This episode serves as a clarion call to cultivate a more empathetic and informed perspective towards those enduring persecution globally, urging a reevaluation of our collective responsibilities as bearers of the gospel.Travis welcomes Nik Ripken back to the show! This time Travis & Nik discuss his book, The Insanity of Obedience, and the many modern misconceptions of how we go about mission in the modern world. At the heart of their conversation is the subject of persecution and how we handle it opposed to how the Bible presents it. This conversation goes beyond the fact that persecution exists, instead, Nik presents the question-why are people being persecuted? It's not simply because people are believers in Christ-there is much more involved. It involves the methods we employ to communicate the message of Jesus. Could it be that the methods that we have employed to get the message out, actually cause more problems than they solve? Could it be that we need to rethink how we communicate and what methods we are reliant on? Listen in and find out! Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: The discussion elucidates the profound implications of persecution on believers, particularly those in Somalia, who face threats for their faith and associations. Travis Michael Fleming and Nik Ripken challenge listeners to reconsider their understanding of persecution and its role in spreading the Gospel effectively. The notion of being 'sheep among wolves' is presented as a metaphor for vulnerability in the face of persecution, highlighting the need for wisdom in witnessing. Nik Ripken's experiences reveal that cultural context is paramount when sharing the Gospel, as Western methods may inadvertently endanger lives in hostile environments.

Mar 4, 2022 • 42min
#92 | The Wisdom Pyramid & Starving Our Souls With Digital Sugar, Pt. 2 | Brett McCracken
Travis and Brett McCracken continue their conversation about the wisdom pyramid. They talk through the benefits and burdens of technology, the culture of disposable, perceptual presentism, the need for. rest and boredom, passive scrolling, the digital natives of today and other subjects such as the Amish, Starbucks, squirrels skiing, five habits for cultivating wisdom online, and counter liturgy. Brett is a senior editor and director of communications for The Gospel Coalition. He has written for The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Huffington Post, CNN.com, Christianity Today, and many other publications. A graduate of Wheaton College and UCLA (M.A. in Cinema & Media Studies), Brett lives in Santa Ana, California with his wife Kira and two sons, Chet and Ira. He is an elder at Southlands Church Santa Ana.Travis and Brett discuss his newest book, The Wisdom Pyramid: Feeding Your Soul in a Post-Truth World (Crossway, 2021). We have the food pyramid to show us what we need to eat and in what amounts, but what about the content for our souls? Where does that fit? Brett opens up the door, drawing our souls into Christ, but shows us how to live in an information-saturated world. We can't escape it, but we can regulate it and Brett is here to be a guide. It's a fascinating and varied discussion on technology, social media, batman, art, foods, our craving and need for beauty, and a whole lot more. But it is their focus on the pyramid that helps give order to our soul formation. Subscribe to Brett’s blog here. Or follow him on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Mar 1, 2022 • 39min
#91 | The Crisis in Ukraine-Special Episode w/ Wayne Shepherd
On this special episode of Apollos Watered, Travis welcomes radio veteran Wayne Shepherd to the show to discuss the crisis in Ukraine. Wayne's voice has been heard all around the world. He has been in Christian radio for decades working with some of the who's who of evangelical Christianity and host of First Person with Wayne Shepherd a weekly radio/podcast interview program that introduces you to people whose lives have been redeemed by Jesus Christ and called to serve Him in a unique way.What many may not realize is that he has a special place in his heart for Ukraine and has been working with ministries such as Mission Eurasia and The Far East Broadcasting Company for years.Travis and Wayne discuss the situation as well as give us some tips on how to pray and where to give in order to best help those affected by such a senseless tragedy. You can donate to Mission Eurasia or to the Far East Broadcasting Company. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 25, 2022 • 48min
#90 | The Wisdom Pyramid & Starving Our Souls With Digital Sugar, Pt. 1 | Brett McCracken
Travis welcomes Brett McCracken to the show. Brett is a senior editor and director of communications for The Gospel Coalition. He has written for The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Huffington Post, CNN.com, Christianity Today, and many other publications. A graduate of Wheaton College and UCLA (M.A. in Cinema & Media Studies), Brett lives in Santa Ana, California with his wife Kira and two sons, Chet and Ira. He is an elder at Southlands Church Santa Ana.Travis and Brett discuss his newest book, The Wisdom Pyramid: Feeding Your Soul in a Post-Truth World (Crossway, 2021). We have the food pyramid to show us what we need to eat and in what amounts, but what about the content for our souls? Where does that fit? Brett opens up the door, drawing our souls into Christ, but shows us how to live in an information-saturated world. We can't escape it, but we can regulate it and Brett is here to be a guide. It's a fascinating and varied discussion on technology, social media, batman, art, foods, our craving and need for beauty, and a whole lot more. But it is their focus on the pyramid that helps give order to our soul formation. Subscribe to Brett’s blog here. Or follow him on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.Other episodes to help you understand technology & how it is forming us:#84 | Analog Church | Jay Y. Kim#95 | Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 1 | Felicia Wu Song#96 Restless Devices-Countering Conformity With Ancient Christian Practices, Pt. 2 | Felicia Wu Song#160 | Analog Christian | Jay Y. KimSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 18, 2022 • 48min
#89 | Scripture, Psalms, and Nourishing Your Soul, Pt. 2 | Tremper Longman III
Travis & Tremper welcomes Tremper Longman III back! They talk about the Old Testament Scriptures, the psalms, and how they nourish our souls by speaking to the entirety of the human condition. We need them to show us how to speak to God about the stuff that we are dealing with every day. They discuss C.S. Lewis, Dan Allender & Tremper's book: "God Loves Sex," suffering, Jesus' coming, the perspicuity of Scripture, reading the Bible devotionally, the motivation for Tremper to study the Old Testament and the state of Christian scholarship in the West today. This conversation helps us to think deeper and different than the world around us so that we might be able to truly water our world. Check out any of Tremper's books.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Feb 11, 2022 • 50min
#88 | Scripture, Psalms, and Nourishing Your Soul, Pt. 1 | Tremper Longman III
Travis welcomes Old Testament scholar Tremper Longman III to the show! Dr. Tremper Longman III graduated from Ohio Wesleyan University, earned a Master of Divinity from Westminster Theological Seminary, and completed a doctorate in ancient Near Eastern studies at Yale University. He served as the Robert H. Gundry professor of biblical studies at Westmont from 1998 until he retired in 2017. He continues to serve the college as a distinguished scholar of biblical studies. He has written or co-authored numerous scholarly articles and more than 20 books, including interdisciplinary works, books with psychologist Dan Allender, works on history and historiography, and textbooks for both seminary students lay people. He is one of the main translators of the New Living Translation and has served as a consultant on other popular translations of the Bible including the Message, the New Century Version, and the Holman Standard Bible.Travis and Tremper discuss all things Bible translation and how so many misunderstand the process of translation and miss the place of genre, idiom, expressions, culture, and interpretation. At its core, translation is about finding the proper meaning so we can apply it to our lives. There are many great Bible translations out there, but the core objective is for us to read, study, and apply the version we have so that we may know, love, and obey the God the Bible speaks to us so amazingly about. Travis and Tremper also discuss Tremper's background, nicknames (Tre-Dog may or may not have been mentioned ;-), the Philadelphia Eagles, his high school football team, the best Philly Cheesesteak, and much more! Check out any of Tremper's books.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Jan 20, 2022 • 46min
#87 | Hospitality, Modeling, & Taking a Risk for Christ, Pt. 2 | Ruth Ripken
How do you share your faith with other people? It is not just a presentation as is often caricatured. While there is a presentation aspect to it, there is much more. It involves sharing your life and allowing people in. In our world of busyness, we need to take time and rethink what it means to be hospitable. What does it mean to truly invite people into our apartments or homes and allow them to see our lives in our everyday mess? In this second conversation with Ruth Ripken, Ruth discusses the practical nature of ministry. It requires us to reconsider hospitality, our homes, our families, and what it means to model Christ to others, especially those from a Muslim background. She gives practical details from her life and others, removing the objections by showing how easy and practical it can be. Learn more about Nik Ripken Ministries, the book, and the movie. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: A significant increase in women coming to faith may lead to unprecedented persecution against them. Historically, women have played pivotal roles in the early church, often facing severe trials. It is imperative for us to understand and embrace cultural nuances to effectively share our faith. Women must share their faith with other women, as this fosters a deeper understanding of their spiritual journey. The family unit plays a crucial role in faith transitions, with a collective movement towards Christ being vital. Hospitality is a powerful means of outreach, particularly when engaging with individuals from diverse backgrounds. A profound exploration of the role of women in the context of faith, particularly within Islamic communities, is presented by Travis Michael Fleming and Ruth Ripken in this enlightening discussion. The dialogue begins with a stark observation regarding the potential for widespread persecution of women as they embrace faith in the contemporary world. Fleming and Ripken draw upon historical precedents, highlighting the courage exhibited by women during the early days of Christianity, who faced brutal consequences for their beliefs. They reflect on the current landscape where women in predominantly Muslim societies are often denied access to the same spiritual experiences and opportunities as their male counterparts, leading to a significant gap in the narrative of faith transformation. Ripken emphasizes the necessity of equipping women with the tools to share their faith within their communities, advocating for a model where women mentor other women in their spiritual journeys, thereby fostering a supportive environment for faith to flourish.Further, the conversation delves into the cultural dynamics at play, stressing the importance of understanding the unique challenges faced by women in these contexts. Ripken shares poignant anecdotes from her experiences, illustrating how the patriarchal assumptions prevalent in many societies can hinder the faith journeys of women. The discussion calls for a paradigm shift in how faith is shared, advocating for relational evangelism that prioritizes family units rather than solely individual conversions. This approach acknowledges the complexities of cultural identity and the significance of familial ties in the journey of faith, particularly among Muslims. By underscoring the importance of contextualizing faith within familial and cultural frameworks, Fleming and Ripken offer a compelling vision for how communities can engage with faith in an authentic and transformative manner.In conclusion, the episode serves as a clarion call to listeners to recognize the profound impact of women in the spread of faith and the urgent need to address their unique challenges. Fleming and Ripken urge their audience to take active steps in learning about different cultures and languages, preparing themselves to engage compassionately and effectively with those seeking faith amidst adversity. This rich dialogue not only informs but also inspires action towards fostering a more inclusive and understanding approach to faith sharing in diverse cultural landscapes.