

Those Who Serve The Lord
Travis Michael Fleming
Those Who Serve the Lord is a podcast of Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics, dedicated to forming whole lives for God’s whole mission through God’s whole church—what we call missioholism.
Are you tired of all the division, media hype, and shallow answers? Do you long for clarity, renewal, and hope in an increasingly disorienting cultural landscape?
Are you burdened for your church, your family, or your calling, and wondering why the strategies that once brought growth and fruitfulness now seem to fall flat?
Are you yearning for fresh vision, deeper passion, and renewed purpose?
There is a way forward.
In a world fractured by half-truths and half-lived faith, Those Who Serve the Lord calls pastors, leaders, and everyday believers to embody the new humanity of the new creation—mind, heart, body, and soul—for the renewal of all things.
Get ready for theologically rich, culturally grounded conversations that are both profound and practical—never dry, never detached.
Join Travis Michael Fleming—pastor, public theologian, and cultural apologist—as he walks alongside you to help you live out your calling. Because your faith matters, your work is not in vain, and the Lord is with you every step of the way.
Are you tired of all the division, media hype, and shallow answers? Do you long for clarity, renewal, and hope in an increasingly disorienting cultural landscape?
Are you burdened for your church, your family, or your calling, and wondering why the strategies that once brought growth and fruitfulness now seem to fall flat?
Are you yearning for fresh vision, deeper passion, and renewed purpose?
There is a way forward.
In a world fractured by half-truths and half-lived faith, Those Who Serve the Lord calls pastors, leaders, and everyday believers to embody the new humanity of the new creation—mind, heart, body, and soul—for the renewal of all things.
Get ready for theologically rich, culturally grounded conversations that are both profound and practical—never dry, never detached.
Join Travis Michael Fleming—pastor, public theologian, and cultural apologist—as he walks alongside you to help you live out your calling. Because your faith matters, your work is not in vain, and the Lord is with you every step of the way.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 30, 2025 • 37min
#261 | Revitalizing Leadership: The Impact of Joy and Maturity in Ministry with Marcus Warner, Pt. 1
The conversation between Travis Michael Fleming and Dr. Marcus Warner centers around the principles delineated in their book, "Rare Leadership," which emphasizes the paramount importance of joy and maturity in effective leadership. They elucidate how the absence of joy leads to a toxic atmosphere in organizational settings, particularly within churches, resulting in high staff turnover and a culture driven by fear. The speakers articulate that true leadership thrives on relational dynamics, wherein leaders remain relational, act authentically, and foster an environment of joy, even amidst adversity. By advocating for these principles, they aim to cultivate communities that embody resilience, grace, and a deeper connection to one another. This dialogue serves as both a reflection and a guide for those in positions of leadership, encouraging them to prioritize emotional health and relational well-being in their practices.Takeaways: Effective leadership integrates joy and maturity, which are essential for sustainable influence. Mature leaders cultivate relationships rather than relying on fear to motivate their teams. Returning to joy serves as a crucial mechanism for enduring hardship within leadership contexts. The absence of joy in leadership results in a toxic environment characterized by fear and burnout. Understanding the neurological basis of relationships can enhance a leader's effectiveness and overall organizational health. Leadership is fundamentally a discipleship issue, emphasizing that personal growth is intertwined with relational dynamics. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyHelp support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Jul 23, 2025 • 1h 2min
#260 | We Need Each Other: A Conversation with Jim Wilder on the Rediscovery of Relationships in the Christian Life, Pt. 2
In the final segment, the discussion shifts towards practical applications of these concepts within church leadership and congregational life. Wilder introduces the RARE leadership framework—remaining relational, acting like oneself, returning to joy, and enduring hardship—as a strategy for leaders to navigate the complexities of ministry. This framework serves as a guide for maintaining authenticity and fostering resilience amidst the pressures of church leadership. Fleming and Wilder conclude their conversation by highlighting the transformative potential of embracing neurotheological insights in ministry, urging leaders to prioritize relational health and spiritual well-being. They encourage listeners to explore resources such as Wilder's writings, which provide further guidance on implementing these principles in their own contexts, thereby enriching their faith journeys and enhancing their communities.Takeaways: The podcast explores the intersection of neurotheology and spiritual transformation, highlighting the challenges faced in teaching individuals to embody Christ-like behavior. Travis and Jim discuss the implications of honor and shame in contemporary culture, emphasizing their biblical roots and relevance. They delve into the significance of multigenerational communities in fostering spiritual growth, asserting that diverse age groups enhance relational dynamics. The conversation reveals insights into how understanding brain functions can aid in better spiritual formation and facilitate transformative experiences in faith communities. Listeners are encouraged to pursue deeper relational connections within their ministries, moving beyond mere performance-driven models to embrace holistic spiritual growth. The episode underscores the importance of cultivating joy and healthy communication in ministry, advocating for a return to relational authenticity in faith-based interactions. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyHelp support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Jul 8, 2025 • 50min
#259 | We Need Each Other: A Conversation with Jim Wilder on the Rediscovery of Relationships in the Christian Life, Pt. 1
In this engaging discussion, Jim Wilder, a neurotheologian and author, dives into the profound impact of relationships on spiritual formation. He argues that our connections shape not only our beliefs but also our very identity. Emphasizing communal dynamics, Wilder challenges the individualistic approach often seen today. With insights from neurotheology, he reveals how genuine transformation is rooted in relational engagement. By fostering authentic connections within a community, we can cultivate environments ripe for spiritual growth and understanding.

Jul 1, 2025 • 55min
#258 | Exploring the Depths of the Christian Imagination: A Conversation with Malcolm Guite, Pt. 2
Travis Michael Fleming and Malcolm Guite continue their conversation on the Christian imagination. They explore the historical context of imagination within Christian thought, tracing its evolution from the Enlightenment to the present day. They discuss how figures like Coleridge and Kant influenced our understanding of imagination, positing that imagination is a necessary faculty for discerning meaning and beauty in a world often perceived as grim. By recovering a 'sacred way of seeing', the hosts challenge listeners to cultivate their imagination, suggesting that creativity and artistry are not just ancillary to faith but central to living out the Christian narrative. This episode thus serves as a clarion call to engage deeply with the arts as a means of expressing and enriching one's faith.Takeaways: The historical divide between science and imagination has led to a grim perception of the world, which we must counter with the eye of imagination. Imagination is a crucial aspect of our Christian walk, as it enables us to engage with God's story in a profound manner. Malcolm Guite emphasizes that imagination is not merely a creative exercise but a vital aspect of our understanding and relationship with God. By cultivating our imagination through the arts, we can deepen our comprehension of truth, beauty, and the divine, as expressed in Christian faith. Cultural apologetics serves to establish a Christian voice within society, highlighting the significance of imagination in conveying the gospel effectively. The act of creation is an eternal process, reflecting God's nature and inviting us to participate in shaping our perception of reality. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyHelp support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Jun 24, 2025 • 44min
#257 | Exploring the Depths of the Christian Imagination: A Conversation with Malcolm Guite, Pt. 1
Travis Michael Fleming and Malcolm Guite's conversation offers a rich exploration of the Christian imagination and its pivotal role in spiritual life and cultural discourse. Guite reflects on his transformative experiences with poetry, particularly the impact of John Keats on his understanding of beauty and transcendence. He emphasizes the necessity of imagination in articulating the complexities of faith, suggesting that it allows believers to navigate the intricacies of existence with a renewed perspective. By engaging with literature and the arts, Guite argues, individuals can discover a deeper connection to the divine, fostering a sense of wonder and awe. This dialogue not only highlights the interplay between imagination and faith but also challenges listeners to actively cultivate their imaginative faculties as a means of enriching their spiritual journeys and engaging with the world around them. Through Guite's insights, the episode serves as an invitation to reimagine the intersections of belief, creativity, and culture.Takeaways: The conversation emphasizes the transformative power of the Christian imagination in understanding existence. Travis Michael Fleming recounts a profound experience with the Psalms that altered his perception of reality. Malcolm Guite discusses the necessity of cultivating a rich Christian imagination in contemporary society. The episode explores how literature and poetry can illuminate deeper truths about the human experience. Both speakers articulate the significance of vulnerability in relation to faith and divine love. The dialogue highlights the importance of community and shared experiences in fostering spiritual growth. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyHelp support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Jun 12, 2025 • 46min
#256 | From the Archives-Revisiting the Wisdom of C.S. Lewis for Imagination in Ministry, Pt 2
Travis Michael Fleming and Jerry Root delve into the inspiring legacy of C.S. Lewis, particularly as it pertains to the realm of evangelism. They discuss how Lewis, despite his scholarly acumen, possessed a unique ability to communicate complex theological concepts in an accessible manner, thereby inviting individuals from various backgrounds to engage with the Christian faith. Root emphasizes that each believer is called to be an ambassador for Christ, underlining the imperative nature of evangelism in the life of every Christian, regardless of their specific gifts or vocations. Through their discussion, they share poignant anecdotes from Lewis’s life, illustrating how he actively sought to share the gospel, often in unconventional settings, such as the Socratic Club at Oxford or through his extensive correspondence. This episode is enlightening and encouraging, and serves as a compelling reminder of the importance of personal testimony and relational evangelism, encouraging you to embrace opportunities to convey the message of Christ to those around you.Takeaways: Travis Michael Fleming and Jerry Root emphasize that we are mere ambassadors of God, tasked with sharing His message of love and grace. The discussion highlights that the act of evangelism transcends one’s personal gifting, as every believer is called to share the Gospel. C.S. Lewis's unique ability to communicate profound truths in accessible language serves as an inspiration for effective evangelism. Listeners are encouraged to engage with individuals where they are, using personal relationships to facilitate meaningful conversations about faith. The podcast underscores the importance of viewing all people as created in the image of God, which necessitates sharing the Gospel with everyone we encounter. Jerry Root illustrates the necessity for ongoing relationships in evangelism, suggesting that spiritual growth often requires time and patience. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyHelp support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Jun 3, 2025 • 36min
#255 | From the Archives-Revisiting the Wisdom of C.S. Lewis for Imagination in Ministry
Travis Michael Fleming and Jerry Root engage in a conversation on the intersections of C.S. Lewis's literary imagination and the practice of evangelism. Central to their discussion is the assertion that Lewis's imaginative prowess facilitates the understanding of complex theological concepts, making them accessible to a broader audience. Root explores how Lewis employs narrative and metaphor to penetrate the defenses of skepticism, thus allowing individuals to encounter the divine in compelling and transformative ways. They explore the implications of fostering a Christian imagination within contemporary culture, arguing that such creativity can revitalize evangelistic efforts and deepen one's faith. This conversation serves as an invitation to rediscover the richness of Lewis's work and its relevance in our mission to share the love of God amidst a fractured world.Takeaways: Travis Michael Fleming and Jerry Root explore the transformative power of C.S. Lewis' imagination in evangelism during their insightful discussion. Root emphasizes the importance of engaging the imagination to effectively communicate the gospel message in contemporary culture. The conversation highlights how Lewis' works evoke deep longings within individuals, prompting them to seek spiritual fulfillment and truth. Lewis' ability to transcend denominational boundaries allows him to resonate with a diverse audience across various Christian traditions. Travis shares personal anecdotes about evangelism, illustrating how relational connections can facilitate meaningful conversations about faith. Root discusses the necessity of community in theological exploration, asserting that individual understanding flourishes within a collective context. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyThank you for making a difference!

May 20, 2025 • 46min
#254 | Understanding the Modern Mission Field: Insights on Ministry and Discipleship
Join the Blueprint Cohort – Starting May 28!Are you ready to go deeper in your faith and discover how to live out God's Kingdom in today's world?Sign up for the Blueprint Cohort, a 5-week guided journey through Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World. We’ll meet Wednesdays from 12–1 PM ET, starting May 28 via Zoom.🗓 Meeting Dates:May 28June 4June 11June 18June 25Whether you're a pastor, leader, or simply hungry to grow, this cohort is designed to refresh, equip, and encourage you.👉 Sign-Up Link Here!Spots are limited, so sign up today!The dialogue unfolds with a profound exploration of the contemporary ecclesiastical landscape, particularly through the lens of Apollos Watered and Travis Michael Fleming's literary contribution, Blueprint. The discussion is enriched by Dr. Scott Duncan, a senior pastor who has navigated the complexities of ministry in the culturally rich yet challenging environment of Huntington, West Virginia. Through this engaging conversation, we delve into pressing issues facing church leaders today, such as biblical illiteracy, the necessity for apologetics, and the urgent need for culturally responsive discipleship. Dr. Duncan shares his pastoral experiences, highlighting the disconnect between the church and the surrounding community, where a staggering 70% of individuals do not identify with any Christian faith. This reality serves as a backdrop against which the insights from Blueprint become a critical resource for revitalizing church engagement and fostering spiritual growth. The episode emphasizes the importance of equipping leaders to confront these challenges with clarity and conviction, ultimately fostering a church that is both rooted in the Gospel and responsive to the cultural shifts of our time.Takeaways: Travis Michael Fleming and Scott Duncan underscore the significance of engaging with diverse theological perspectives for the enrichment of understanding in ministry. The podcast highlights the pervasive issue of biblical illiteracy within congregations, necessitating a robust approach to teaching the overarching narrative of Scripture. Scott Duncan emphasizes the importance of fostering community and connection among church members to combat spiritual apathy and enhance collective witness. The discussion reveals the challenges faced by church leaders in modern culture, where traditional values often clash with contemporary secular beliefs. Both speakers advocate for the necessity of equipping church leaders through resources such as Travis's book, Blueprint, to navigate the complexities of faith in today's world. Apollos Watered seeks to empower leaders by refreshing their commitment to the gospel as they engage their communities with clarity and conviction. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyThank you for making a difference!

May 13, 2025 • 40min
#253 | Why You Can’t Follow Jesus Alone: Rediscovering the Power of Christian Community
Join the Blueprint Cohort – Starting May 28!Are you ready to go deeper in your faith and discover how to live out God's Kingdom in today's world?Sign up for the Blueprint Cohort, a 5-week guided journey through Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World. We’ll meet Wednesdays from 12–1 PM ET, starting May 28 via Zoom.🗓 Meeting Dates:May 28June 4June 11June 18June 25Whether you're a pastor, leader, or simply hungry to grow, this cohort is designed to refresh, equip, and encourage you.👉 Sign-Up Link Here!Spots are limited, so sign up today!The podcast episode delves into the intricate dynamics of community within a post-Christian context, highlighting the necessity of belonging and the transformative power of genuine fellowship. Irwyn Ince Jr. articulates a profound understanding of community as a divine reality, drawing upon the concept of perichoresis to illustrate the interplay of unity and diversity within the Trinity. This theological foundation suggests that true community is not merely a human construct but a reflection of God's nature. As the discussion unfolds, it becomes evident that the journey towards authentic community demands vulnerability and a willingness to extend oneself beyond familiar boundaries, particularly for those from minority backgrounds. Along with Ince, Jr., the episode features insights from such leaders as Bishop Claude Alexander, Allen Yeh, Stephen O. Presley, O. Alan Noble, N.T. Wright and Michael Goheen emphasize that the church, as a microcosm of the Kingdom of God, must embody diversity and reconciliation. Ince Jr. poignantly raises critical questions regarding the cost of belonging, urging listeners to consider the sacrifices individuals make in pursuit of genuine community and the importance of creating spaces where all voices are heard and valued. The overarching message underscores the call for maturity within the church, advocating for a collective journey that embraces discomfort as a catalyst for growth and unity, ultimately reflecting the beauty of the Gospel in a fractured world.Takeaways: The need for community and belonging is essential for every individual, transcending mere desire to become a fundamental requirement. The concept of perichoresis, representing the divine dance within the Trinity, serves as a foundational principle for understanding authentic community. True community is not merely a human construct but rather a reflection of God's divine nature, emphasizing unity amidst diversity. Engaging with diverse perspectives within the church enriches our understanding of God and enhances our communal worship experience. The journey towards authentic community necessitates maturity, which often entails discomfort and personal growth in faith. To fully embody the Gospel, the church must embrace its missional identity, engaging with the world in love, justice, and faithfulness. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyThank you for making a difference!

May 2, 2025 • 49min
#252 | The Love That Shapes Everything: Rediscovering the Great Commandment
Love God. Love people. Sounds simple, but in many churches today, the Great Commandment has largely been unintentionally overlooked.Today's conversation is about rediscovering the Great Commandment, which calls us to love God with the entirety of our being and to extend that love to our neighbors. But it's not about love in abstract theory, but everyday practice. It's a call to learn the skills of how we love our neighbors (and our enemies).We delve into the profound implications of this commandment and how love must permeate our existence and interactions, shaping our identity as a community of faith. As we navigate the complexities of modern life, it becomes evident that the act of loving others necessitates recognizing their intrinsic value as creations of God, a foundational truth that undergirds our relationships. Throughout our conversation, we grapple with the challenges of maintaining this love amidst distractions and cultural divisions, and we explore the necessity of fostering a communal identity that embodies these principles. By emphasizing love as a transformative force, we aspire to cultivate a community that not only professes but actively practices the essence of the Great Commandment in every facet of life.Takeaways: The Great Commandment emphasizes the necessity of loving God and loving others, which serves as the foundation for all Christian living. True transformation in the church occurs not merely through information but through love that is relational and communal in nature. When we lose our first love, we risk losing our identity as a church, which must be rooted in love and humility. The church should foster a community where joy and love are central, shaping the character of its members and their interactions with the world. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyThank you for making a difference!