Talking Tokens

On today’s Talking Tokens episode, Jacquelyn sat down with Chris Yin, Co-founder and CEO of Plume Network — a blockchain built for real-world assets (RWAs). Backed by Brevan Howard, Haun Ventures and others, Plume launched mainnet in June 2025 and already accounts for over half of all RWA holders in crypto.Chris shares how Plume went from a structured product app to a full L2 chain, why most tokenized assets fail, and what it takes to make RWAs actually usable. From community-led DeFi to bottoms-up UX, he breaks down Plume’s strategy for bringing the next billion users onchain and why traction beats headlines.Timestamps(0:00) - What is Plume Network? (1:32) - Chris’s background: DeFi summer, yield farming, and app-layer insights (2:15) - Why most tokenized assets fail: no usage, no velocity (4:03) - Why Plume had to build its own chain (5:42) - Tokenization isn’t enough — here’s what else matters (8:01) - RWAs as crypto’s biggest opportunity (bigger than all DeFi) (9:33) - Stable yield, composability, and how users interact with assets (12:16) - What makes tokenized assets actually usable (14:00) - Top-down vs bottoms-up tokenization (16:00) - Mineral Vault onboarded 80K holders in a month (19:12) - Plume’s Phase 2: onboarding non-crypto users (20:30) - Why real traction > flashy launches (22:41) - The real numbers behind RWA growth (25:50) - Plume’s 2025 goal: $1B in clean, onchain RWA value (27:48) - Structured products will unlock the next wave (30:50) - Long-term vision: an onchain BlackRock (32:10) - It’s not about one asset — it’s the full stack (36:36) - Honoring Co-Founder Eugene Chen (39:25) - Final advice: focus long-term, but adapt fastYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you like the show, please let us know by leaving a review!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram Talking Tokens: https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

On today’s Talking Tokens episode, Jacquelyn sits down with Stephen Hess, founder of Metaplex and director of the Metaplex Foundation — the protocol that powers 99% of tokens and NFTs created on Solana. What ERC-20 is to Ethereum, Metaplex is to Solana — but it’s also much more than that.They discuss how Metaplex helped define the NFT era, what the new Genesis platform brings to onchain token launches, and why memecoins, stablecoins, and real-world assets are converging into a single unstoppable wave. Stephen shares insights from his early Solana Labs days, breaks down the hard lessons from its Candy Machine protocol, and explains why true transparency and permissionless innovation are the keys to the future of crypto capital markets.TIMESTAMPS(0:00) - Metaplex's Dominance on Solana: 99% of NFTs and Tokens (1:26) - Stephen's Background: Solana Labs, NFTs, and Infrastructure (5:00) - Candy Machine Era → Genesis: Evolving Token Launch Standards (7:03) - Standardizing Onchain Token Offerings with Transparency (10:00) - Why Most Token Launches Are Broken — and How to Fix Them (14:00) - Tokenomics, Project Types, and Launching With Integrity (17:13) - Metaplex By the Numbers: 10M Wallets, $10B in Value (18:22) - Beyond Memecoins: DeFi, Stablecoins, and App Layer Growth (20:15) - Startups Will Launch Onchain — Here's What That Looks Like (24:26) - Token Market Oversaturation? Why He’s Bullish Anyway (26:04) - IPO vs Permissionless: What 'Onchain' Really Means (29:25) - Regulation, Timeline, and Real Assets Coming to Crypto (30:43) - NFTs: Rebuilding After Fatigue, One Community at a Time (33:06) - Why NFTs Still Matter and the Hidden Strength of Their Ecosystems (34:52) - What Makes a Good Crypto Product — and a Better Founder (37:09) - Final Advice: Stay Scrappy, Stay on Day One, Stay BuildingYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you like the show, please let us know by leaving a review!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram Talking Tokens: https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

Tzvi Wiesel, co-founder and CEO of BAXUS, is revolutionizing the alcohol market through tokenization. He shares insights on tackling pricing inefficiencies and how whiskey collections can be transformed into on-chain collateral. Tzvi explains why he chose Solana for its transactions and the importance of building trust in the marketplace. Discover the potential for leveraging high-value spirits as loan collateral and learn about the global liquidity opportunities in a booming $2 trillion industry. Community engagement and brand loyalty are also key themes throughout the discussion.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Annelise Osborne, Chief Business Officer at Kadena — a proof-of-work Layer 1 built by former JP Morgan blockchain leads. Kadena isn’t just another chain; it’s an ambitious bet that regulation, decentralization, and enterprise-grade tooling can live in the same ecosystem.They dive into Annelise’s Wall Street background, her work on the SEC’s ICO task force, and why she sees tokenization, smart contracts, and privacy as the keys to bridging TradFi with crypto. From building Kadena’s BD, grants, and ecosystem playbook to running fan tokens for the Croatian football team, Annelise shares what it takes to build a business layer on top of chain infra — and how she’s positioning Kadena for long-term adoption.⏱️ Timestamps(0:00) - Intro: Why Proof-of-Work Still Matters in 2025 (1:26) - Annelise’s Background: From Moody’s to Crypto and the ICO Task Force (5:12) - Why Kadena Chose Multi-Chain Proof-of-Work (8:13) - Merging TradFi & DeFi: Tokenization and Real-World Assets (12:34) - Institutional Adoption: What They Want (and Don’t) (17:12) - Building a Business Layer on Top of Kadena (20:05) - Fan Tokens, Fashion NFTs & Global Consumer Use Cases (24:01) - Who Kadena Funds and Why (27:23) - The Challenge of Regulated DeFi and the U.S. Compliance Angle (30:00) - The Future of DeFi: Access, Collateral, and Mortgages (34:04) - M&A in Crypto and Where Kadena Is Looking (37:35) - How L1s Are Competing: Devs, Regulation, and TVL (40:18) - Why Private Chains May Struggle vs Public Chains (42:26) - Final Advice: Stay Curious, Be Resilient, Build in PublicYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube.If you like the show, please let us know by leaving a review!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on XJacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinekTalking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on InstagramTalking Tokens: https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/

On today’s Talking Tokens episode, Jacquelyn sits down live at the Finance Leaders Collective with Jonas Kristensen, Head of Wintermute Ventures — the investment arm of one of crypto’s most prolific trading firms. With over 100 startup investments since 2019, Wintermute has become a force in early-stage crypto VC.Jonas shares how they spot high-conviction founders, why stablecoins are the hottest sector right now, and how regulation, memecoins, and institutional appetite are shaping the space. He also reflects on the impact of Circle’s IPO, and why prediction markets are his next big curiosity.Whether it’s DeFi, stablecoins, or new rails like tokenized equities, Jonas explains what’s real, what’s noise, and how Wintermute plans to keep deploying — in bull and bear markets alike.TIMESTAMPS(0:00) - Intro (0:46) - Who is Jonas Kristensen & how Wintermute Ventures operates (1:46) - Why Wintermute focuses on infrastructure and trades off its own balance sheet (2:34) - State of crypto VC in 2025: active, early-stage heavy, regulation turning (4:03) - Stablecoin builders from the bear market are now winning (5:44) - How U.S. elections + Robinhood’s token push reshaped the market (7:24) - What VCs look for in early-stage crypto founders today (8:30) - Circle IPO, public demand, and stablecoin market exposure (10:25) - Three real PMF products: stablecoins, perp trading, Bitcoin (11:31) - Going mainstream: ETFs, neobanks, and new distribution rails (16:03) - Prediction markets: untapped trading frontier with big potentialIf you like the show, please let us know by leaving a review!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensTalking Tokens: https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

On today’s Talking Tokens episode, Jacquelyn sat down with Misha Putiatin, co-founder of Symbiotic — the cross-chain staking protocol that quietly raised $29M in April from Pantera, Coinbase Ventures, and 100+ angels.Rather than announce with a whitepaper, Symbiotic launched with product in hand — already live across 16 networks. Misha dives deep into why staking infrastructure today is broken, how Symbiotic is enabling universal staking without one-size-fits-all assumptions, and how the team’s 25 developers built a framework adopted by 16 protocols (and counting).They also talk about developer culture, what most people get wrong about blockchain security, and how to break out of the crypto bubble to reach real users.TIMESTAMPS(0:00) - Intro: Who is Misha & what is Symbiotic (1:02) - Symbiotic’s $29M raise: not the focus here (3:00) - What universal staking really means (4:15) - The origin story: 25 devs, 16 networks (6:00) - Why Symbiotic launched product-first, not with hype (9:15) - “Whitepaper drops” vs actually building (11:00) - How building has changed across cycles (13:00) - Why audits cost millions (and why they matter) (15:00) - What “universal” staking means in practice (17:00) - Are protocols coming to Symbiotic — or vice versa? (19:00) - How big can this get? (21:00) - The challenge of one-size-fits-all security (23:00) - Where today’s staking systems fall short (25:00) - Breaking the crypto echo chamber (27:00) - Is blockchain security fundamentally broken? (29:00) - Why people need to look under the hood (30:00) - What the $29M raise will actually fund (33:00) - Dev culture: what people don’t understand (35:00) - The long-term vision for staking infrastructure (37:00) - What it’ll take to coordinate cross-chain security (38:00) - Multichain future: inevitable or idealistic? (40:00) - Final advice from Misha: don’t rush the storyIf you like the show, please let us know by leaving a review!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensTalking Tokens: https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.TIMESTAMPSYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube.Follow us on XFollow us on Instagram

On today’s Talking Tokens episode, Jacquelyn sat down with Jack O’Holleran, co-founder of SKALE Network and CEO of SKALE Labs. Jack shares why MEV is a hidden tax on users, how FAIR — SKALE’s new Layer- 1 — aims to eliminate it at the consensus level, and how crypto infrastructure must evolve for an AI-driven future.They discuss the difference between SKALE and FAIR, why stablecoins and AI will become deeply intertwined, and how the dual-token model will reward SKALE holders as FAIR goes live. Jack also shares his vision for category-defining products and why the blockchain industry needs to move past hype and toward fundamentals.TIMESTAMPS(0:00) - Crypto’s future is stablecoin-native & MEV-free (1:02) - Jack’s journey: enterprise software to SKALE Labs (4:47) - Why SKALE scaled to 100M+ txs/mo (6:01) - What devs want: FAIR as L1 for DeFi & AI (7:16) - Why MEV is crypto’s invisible tax (9:01) - Encrypted mempools, front-running & Byte protocol (10:49) - How AI + stablecoins combine to enable real programmable money (13:11) - Why TradFi bans MEV, and crypto shouldn’t tolerate it (14:24) - The “spin” behind MEV as ‘real economic value’ (15:58) - MEV-resistance as default — not opt-in (17:06) - Why stablecoins may rival AI in impact (21:00) - Will AI payments break traditional banking rails? (24:00) - Infra vs apps: where AI funding should go (26:00) - FAIR launch: already live in testnet (27:00) - The developer traction and feedback (29:00) - SKALE x FAIR: how the dual-token model works (31:00) - Why SKALE supply will deflate as FAIR grows (33:00) - Timing, launch strategy & market sentiment (35:00) - Jack’s take on crypto hype vs utility (36:00) - Final advice: always dig under the hoodIf you like the show, please let us know by leaving a review!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensTalking Tokens: https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube.Follow us on XFollow us on Instagram

On today’s Talking Tokens episode, Jacquelyn sat down with Abubakar Nur Khalil, CEO of Recursive Capital and board member and CEO of Btrust — the Bitcoin development organization backed by Jack Dorsey and Jay-Z. Abubakar has been at the center of Bitcoin’s growth across Africa, from launching a venture fund to distributing over $1.7 million in grants to open-source developers.They discuss why Btrust is expanding from Africa to Latin America, the role of Bitcoin in energy, governance, and national treasuries, and why Abubakar sees Bitcoin as fundamentally different from crypto. He also breaks down what’s driving local adoption, why builders are choosing Bitcoin over web2 or AI careers, and what’s next for Bitcoin education, regulation, and electrification across the Global South.TIMESTAMPS:(0:00) - How Bitcoin is evolving in Nigeria and beyond (1:02) - Who is Abubakar Nur Khalil? (2:16) - Starting Recursive Capital and building a Bitcoin VC fund (4:47) - Why they rebranded to focus solely on Bitcoin (5:45) - The story behind Btrust and its $1.7M in grants (7:03) - Why Btrust is expanding beyond Africa (9:01) - Why developers want to be paid in Bitcoin (10:14) - Abubakar’s Bitcoin thesis vs other crypto projects (12:07) - The 3 biggest Bitcoin use cases right now (15:03) - Why Bitcoin treasuries matter for African startups (16:07) - How Recursive and Btrust stay separate (17:20) - What surprised him most about building both orgs (20:00) - Educating developers who don’t know Bitcoin careers exist (23:02) - What governments are thinking about Bitcoin in 2024 (28:00) - Final advice: Align your principles, then actYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you like the show, please let us know by leaving a review!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X: Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on InstagramTalking Tokens: https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

On today’s Talking Tokens episode, Jacquelyn sat down with Kevin Boon, President of Mysten Labs, the core team behind the Sui blockchain. From fine arts and law to building crypto infrastructure, Kevin shares his unconventional journey and what’s next for the Sui ecosystem.They discuss how Kevin balances legal and leadership roles, how the community responded to the recent Cetus exploit, and why Mysten is building out its own full infrastructure stack. Kevin also talks about tokenized equities, stablecoins, and what DeFi products actually have product-market fit.TIMESTAMPS:(0:00) - Is Sui really decentralized? (1:02) - Kevin’s journey: art school to crypto (4:47) - How he became president of Mysten Labs (7:16) - What it’s like leading a blockchain ecosystem (12:03) - The Cetus exploit and community response (17:01) - Governance vs centralization (20:12) - What is Walrus and why it matters (27:58) - Real-world use cases: ads, telecom, storage (30:23) - Building Mysten’s full product stack (32:10) - What DeFi actually works (37:56) - Stablecoins and institutional demand (42:04) - Tokenized equities and new markets (44:47) - The future: DeFi mortgages and beyond (47:38) - Final advice: build for hard timesYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you like the show, please let us know by leaving a review!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X:  Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on InstagramTalking Tokens: https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

On today’s Talking Tokens episode, Jacquelyn sat down with Mary-Catherine “MC” Lader, President and COO of Uniswap Labs. Uniswap is behind the world’s largest decentralized exchange and recently launched Unichain, a new layer-2 blockchain built to optimize trading and liquidity.They discuss Mary’s journey from Goldman Sachs to BlackRock, where she founded the digital assets division in 2015 and led early innovation in tokenization. Now at Uniswap, MC shares her vision for simplifying DeFi, why the team launched Unichain, how the Uniswap API is unlocking new use cases, and what’s needed to bring institutional capital and new users on-chain.TIMESTAMPS:(0:00) - Why DeFi is here to stay (1:02) - MC’s journey from BlackRock to Uniswap (6:50) - First impressions and joining a 10-person team (9:55) - Why institutions are now entering DeFi (11:05) - What Unichain solves that other L2s don’t (13:30) - The UX problem in crypto (15:55) - Uniswap V4 as a developer platform (16:50) - The power of the new Uniswap API (18:50) - The rise of tokenization and stablecoins (21:00) - Why Uniswap is betting on self-custody (26:00) - How Uniswap thinks about compliance and privacy (34:15) - MC’s mission: making finance universally accessible (42:00) - Final advice: stay aligned with users, ignore price noiseYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you like the show, please let us know by leaving a review!Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X:  Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: ⁠https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens⁠Follow us on InstagramTalking Tokens: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/⁠Note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.