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Economics for Rebels

Latest episodes

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Feb 6, 2023 • 43min

What if we thought money was in fact abundant? – Joe Ament

In our podcast series we have already covered many different perspectives on the necessary transformation of the monetary system to establish an ecologically sustainable and socially just world. Our guest today, Joe Ament argues that thinking about money differently allows us to think differently about sustainability. Much of our worldview on money is that it is a commodity and is therefore limited. Thinking instead that money is a social relation allows us to think of it as something not physical and hence, abundant. Edited by Aidan Knox.
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Jan 16, 2023 • 33min

Today’s society is built on sand - Aurora Torres

As of 2020, the physical mass of all the world’s man-made structures exceeded that of all the world’s living things. And there’s raw materials – sand and construction minerals - at the heart of these structures, but we rarely notice them, or think about where they come from. In this episode we speak with Dr Aurora Torres, one of the leading experts in the sustainability implications of society’s hunger for sand and construction minerals, and explore the ecological economics of the sand supply networks that underpin most of contemporary society. Edited by Aidan Knox.
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Dec 29, 2022 • 36min

From an empty world to a full world – A tribute to Herman Daly’s work with Dan O’Neill

Herman Daly, one of the founders of ecological economics, died on the 28th of October 2022 at the age of 84. His work questioning the pursuit of economic growth and articulating the alternative of a steady-state economy, has been foundational to sustainability science. Daly observed that mainstream economics completely omits the natural world and in reality, the economy is not an isolated system, but a subsystem of the biosphere. All of the resources used by the economy come from the environment, and all of the wastes produced by it return to the environment. Hence, economic activity can be analysed not only in terms of flows of money, but also in terms of flows of biophysical resources and social outcomes. Moreover, the finitude of the biosphere implies that there are limits to how large the physical economy within it can grow. Daly argued that we have in fact moved from an “empty world” to a “full world”. In this end of year episode we are paying tribute to Herman Daly. Alexandra Köves talks to Dan O'Neill, the President of the European Society for Ecological Economics in an episode that covers not just an incredibly rich life's work but most of the basic concepts of ecological economics. Edited by Aidan Knox.
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Dec 19, 2022 • 43min

What ecological economists need to know about the financial sector - Katie Kedward

There’s one huge structural driver of unsustainability that ecological economists rarely talk about, is fiendishly complex, and deliberately opaque in part to avoid accountability. We’re talking about the financial sector. So we’re happy to welcome Katie Kedward onto the show to help talk us all through the key basics. Katie is a Research Fellow in Sustainable Finance at the Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose at UCL, and we cover issues spanning the role of different actors throughout the financial sector, the limitations of current approaches to reduce its climate and biodiversity impacts, and the role of the state in shaping finance so it works for society. There were some technical difficulties in the recording so apologies for a small change in audio quality during the course of the interview. Sound quality rescued by Editor Aidan Knox.
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Nov 17, 2022 • 33min

Decolonising knowledge production - Brototi Roy

Ecological economics is about finding ways to achieve environmental and social justice in our sustainability transitions. However, justice is a fragile and ambiguous concept, and it is in the eye of the beholder where it gains meaning. Colonialism did not end with previously colonialised countries gaining their freedom. It lives on in our global culture, economy, social processes and in the perception of self-worth in all of us. Science is no exception. Knowledge production is still vastly biased towards Western, masculine, often cartesian values. As transformation is only likely to be successful if we transcend currently dominant paradigms, decolonising knowledge production is key not only in terms of justice but also in terms of finding adequate solutions. In this episode our guest, Brototi Roy - ecological economist, political ecologist and Degrowth researcher from the Autonomous University of Barcelona and Central European University - sheds light on why. She is talking to Alexandra Köves. Edited by Aidan Knox.
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Nov 2, 2022 • 40min

The Progress Illusion - Jon Erickson

In this episode we discuss the history of how neoclassical economics achieved its hegemonic dominance, and the rise of ecological economics as a coherent alternative to the neoclassical paradigm, which is the main focus of Prof Erickson’s new book The Progress Illusion. We pick up stories along the course of Prof Erickson’s journey from neoclassically-trained environmental economist at Cornell, through discussing the emerging concept of natural capital during the fall of Pinochet in Chile, to running one of the world’s most influential ecological economics academic centres. Edited by Aidan Knox.
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Oct 16, 2022 • 47min

There are no Professorships on a dead planet: discussing the role of academics and universities in tackling climate change - Charlie Gardner

Scientists have been warning about the dangers of climate change for decades, but with little success at convincing society to slow the rate of greenhouse gas emissions. Why? What is wrong with the conventional academic’s theory of change, that providing information to key stakeholders will enable more effective climate policymaking? These questions have been central to Dr Charlie Gardner’s career and development, and this conversation tracks his experiences moving from a leading Conservation Scientist in Madagascar working right on the frontier of biodiversity loss, through to being one of the leading figures in Scientist Rebellion. Edited by Aidan Knox.
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Oct 2, 2022 • 1h 26min

Debate on green anarchism vs. eco-socialism

Time and again neoliberal techno-capitalism has demonstrated an inability to address global challenges such as the climate crisis. Two movements, which have been called Green Anarchy and Eco Socialism, share a similar urgency and critique on the role techno-capitalism and fossil capital are playing in global ecocide, but there are substantial differences between them. Green Anarchists and other “small is beautiful” advocates aspire to empower local communities through mutual aid in a decentralized response to societal and ecological collapse, while those who identify as Eco-Socialists are focused more on harnessing the coercive power of the state for a centralized intervention that will transform society at national and ultimately international scales. Acknowledging that both perspectives have a substantial diversity of views within them, this debate focuses on the essential differences, including scale and tactics to transform society, between the communitarian/anarchist and more centralized socialist approaches. This special edition of Economics for Rebels is a recording of a panel discussion exploring these two potentially opposing points of view, Green anarchism and Eco Socialism organised by Mark McCaffrey, debated by Benjamin Sovacool and Matthew T. Huber and facilitated by Alexandra Köves. The discussion was held online live to an audience. Edited by Aidan Knox.
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Sep 18, 2022 • 35min

Debt and inequality in postgrowth economies: lessons from history - Tilman Hartley

Economies organised around growth experience terrible welfare outcomes when growth rates decline, leading postgrowth economics to study mechanisms for mitigating these impacts. Two of the biggest challenges to postgrowth economics are debt and inequality, both of which are conventionally addressed through economic growth. So how can we study these questions empirically, given economies have consistently been growing since the industrial revolution? Today’s interviewee is Dr Tilman Hartley, an ecological economist and economic historian whose work has explored how pre-industrial, low- or no-growth societies dealt with these major economic challenges. Whilst today’s growth-oriented societies seem inevitable now, we often forget that the majority of human civilisations throughout history experienced almost no economic growth – so there’s rich data out there, if you know where to look. Edited by Aidan Knox
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Sep 5, 2022 • 39min

Communicating Ecological Economics: There's a hidden ecological economist in all of us - Alexandra Köves

To see ecological economics implemented in practice at the kind of scale needed to remain within the planet’s safe operating space, ecological economists need to effectively communicate and win the public battle of ideas that underpin what policy paths countries go down. Today’s interviewee is our host Alexandra Köves, who has been publicly communicating the ideas of ecological economics for years as the host of both this show but also one of Hungary’s most popular science podcasts. She talks to the show's new co-host, Sophus Zu Ermgassen. We talk about the narratives that ecological economics can use that appeal best to the public, and the general attitudes towards ecological economics in Hungary. Alexandra’s work has revealed a surprising pattern: when different groups of people are encouraged to envision their ideal future, their vision consistently aligns with the vision of a just and sustainable society aligned with the goals of ecological economics. How can we appeal to the hidden ecological economist in all of us? Edited by Aidan Knox

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