Back on Episode 96 of this podcast, I was talking about how to get started trading for a living. And that came about because I got an email from one of our students saying that he had just been laid off. And he needed some help, and some sounding board about what he should do. Should he go back to work? Should he new start trading full time? And he gave a little bit of the background? And you know, I read his email on that episode. And then I gave, I had written him an answer, but then I went into a little bit more detail in that episode. But right now I'm happy to say that I have Todd with me on the line here. And he is going to be giving us an update of what he decided to do, the situation, what happened and how he did it. So Todd, welcome to the show. Todd: Yeah, I am. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Allen: Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on. You know, it can be a little bit vulnerable, embarrassing a little bit, you know, when somebody gets laid off, it's, you know, not always under our control, especially when you're working. So I appreciate you taking the time to help us out here. Todd: Right, no problem. Allen: Cool. So can you go back a little bit and tell us so what exactly was the situation when you had sent that first email in? Todd: Yeah, so the situation was I ended up losing my job. It was due to budgets that were constrained because of the Coronavirus in response to that. And so some of the projects that I was working on, the funding got pushed out another year. And so they couldn't, you know, they couldn't compensate me anymore. So they laid me off. And at that point, I had already signed up for to have your blank check program, I was kind of starting to get, do the homework, but I really didn't have a lot of time to do it, when I was working full time and balancing family and, and then when I got laid off, it was more imminent. Todd: And so I thought, well, this might be an option that I I'll have more time to dive into it. And so that's what I did and I sent you an email and said, "Hey, Allen, is it really feasible that I could, you know, do this full time and at least cover my my hard cost- my expenses?" And that was my initial goal. I wanted to, you know, cover my mortgage bills, you know, monthly expenses. And, you know, your advice at that time was, yes, it is possible, it may take you a few months to get up to speed. So, and I think at that time, you said maybe you should look at getting a part time job, something like that. And, I ended up not doing that. I just kinda, I just kind of dove into it. And I think in the third month of trading, I was able to meet my goal. So that's amazing, right? So I met my initial goal of just covering my expenses. And, and then the next couple months, I increased my goal. And I think I was running about an average of 10% rate of return on my trades. So month to month, it was real positive. And I kept scaling up. So it's continued to be a positive experience. As you know, last month, it was a little bit volatile, a little bit of a roller coaster. I ended up getting out of that month, I think I met I was at 8% of my rate of return. So.. Allen: That's still really amazing. 8% a month is a good month. Todd: Right, right. So it's good for that. Now, what's changed recently is now that I've learned this, and I've gotten a little more in tune to the oil market, I'm actually out again, looking for a job and what I think I one of my plan is continue trading at this level, and then find a job. So I think I have more time during the days that I could I can do that. And and so hopefully I could go back make my original salary, and I can still, you know, profit from the trading. Allen: Oh, that's really interesting. Wow. I mean, yeah, I didn't see that coming. Todd: Right. Right. Allen: So okay, so you are in our oil options program. And you're also in another You said you were in another program which one the passive the passive trading. Todd: The passive trading program. Allen: So when you started trading full time, right after after the layoff? What did you focus on? What did you trade? Todd: I jumped, well, I went through about half the courses of the passive trading program and got a you know, learn what options are how they were, but I ended up migrating towards the blank check program with oil. I'm okay. With my job. I'm more in tune with the energy markets. It's more interesting to me. I can understand I can understand that supply and demand a little bit better. And so that just appealed to me. So I, I really dove into that. And that's what I'm doing 100% right now, in the future, you know, in the next couple months, I plan to go backwards more into the strategies that you teach in the passive trading and use probably use, you know, covered calls on, you know, on some other other trades, just to supplement. Allen: Right. Okay. Yeah, because in the passive program we do, you know, cover calls, naked puts, covered credit spreads and whatnot. And just to make a living, it's a little bit harder with covered calls and naked puts. We do have students doing it with credit spreads, but like you said, you know, when you need to go from zero to whatever it is cover the expenses, the oil one, it just, it has more, I guess, bang for your buck right away. Todd: Right, right. Allen: Credit spreads do too but the covered calls naked puts, I mean, those are, you know, maybe 1 to 3% probably, or profitability in a month, how much you can make a return? Well, we we go for 10 credit spreads, we go for 10. So those are more the strategies that if you're going full time, then yeah, I like what you said. Because, you know, once you have that coming in that extra cash coming in, then you're like, Okay, now what do I do with it? Okay, now, let's put it into building up that foundation that we talked about in the past program where you're putting in stocks, and you're just cash flowing that foundation. So cool. I like the thinking of it. So if you don't mind that what was that goal? The original goal? You know, you said it was okay to cover the expenses. How much was that? Todd: Yeah, the original goal was $5,000. Allen: Okay, and how long it took you three months to get there? Todd: Yeah, I think my third month I hit that. Okay. So the months before that, I was at about $2,500, $3,000. By the third month, I hit that. Allen: And how long have you been doing that? Like, how long has it been since you started full time? Todd: Since March? Okay. Since March. Allen: So September is almost nine months? No, seven, seven months? Todd: Right. This would be the seventh month. Allen: Okay. Awesome. Awesome. So we got seven months, and what was your best month? Todd: Best month was actually last month at about $8,000. Allen: Okay, awesome. Cool. So now, originally, when in your email, you said your wife was a little bit concerned? What do you What does she feel now? Todd: Well, she is, and it's more because she's just a little more conservative. Or I would say that her risk tolerance is a little bit less than mine. Right? So in her opinion, and rightfully so it's, we have a family, we have kids in the college, you know, so she's just don't comfortable with the fact that it's not sustainable. Every month, necessarily. Allen: It's just not that checks just doesn't come in every month. Right? Todd: Exactly. Yeah. Allen: It can vary.. Todd: It can vary. And, and so that's really what she's uncomfortable with. So, you know, if I think if I get another job on the side, and I do both, then I'll be more than sustainable. And I'll be bringing in, you know, more money than I that I was previously making. So.. Allen: And that'll get her to be a little bit more relaxed. Todd: Exactly. Exactly. So yeah. It'll be it'll be a win win for for everyone. Allen: Yeah, I mean, that's one of the reasons I started option genius was to get me off of her back. She was like, Hey, can you go leave me alone? Can you go do something else, you know, and she didn't I get where your wife is coming from, because my wife was coming from the same place. She's like, you know, you're doing the trades, you're looking at it every day. I don't know what you know, to me. It's just up and down, up and down, up and down. And so I don't feel secure. And for my wife, it was about security as like, you know, I need to know that I'm going to be able to pay the bills, or go to the grocery store, and my car's not gonna get declined, you know? So absolutely. So she's like, yes, if you can get me something on the side, then I'm okay with you trading, but that on the side has to come in. Like, okay, I think we can work on that. Todd: Right? Yeah, that's, that's a lot where we were so or where we are now. So. Okay, we're working through it. Allen: So the business that you were in, it was construction, right? Todd: Yeah. Construction Management. Allen: So that has, is that picked up again now? Todd: Yeah, it sort of has, I mean, it took a dip with the COVID. A lot of funding was frozen in the, you know, the immediate industry that I was in and, you know, things are picking up. So, yup. Allen: Okay, cool. So, all right. So let's recap. The industry that you're in had bit of a constriction. They didn't have any more work for you. Right, you decided, Hey, I'm going to try my hand at trading. Did you give yourself like a deadline, like I'm going to try it for three months or six months or I have like 50,000 I could lose, or did you have some kind of, you know, line at the end? Todd: Yeah, I think it was really like, three to five months. Okay, is what I was figuring. I mean, I was under a little bit of pressure and motivation, I guess, right? I really wanted to make it work. So I kind of went all in and was having, you know, good success. And so I kept going. So I, you know, is really, you get, like, get thrown to the wolves, right? You got to, you got to make it work. So that's really what I did. And that's how I learned by, you know, putting skin in the game, putting money in it. And that's where I really paid attention, and was my motivation to learn it. So.. Allen: That's awesome. So what would you say your return average has been on a monthly basis? Todd: I think I hit 10% every month, except this last month. Allen: Wow. So every month for like six months? You did 10? And then this last year? You did 8? Todd: 8. Yeah. Allen: That's phenomenal. That's amazing. Yeah. So then you started doing that. And obviously you had, you know, you had the the program. You know, you had the coaching calls, right? You had all the stuff that comes with it. But you had to actually do it. You had to get in and be like, Okay, I'm making the dishes, I'm going to put this I'm going to scale it, you decided when to scale. Kudos to you for that. And then now so Okay, so you've gotten you want your goal was like five, you've surpassed the goal, you're making more than you were making as a working. So how long does it take you to do your trading right now? Todd: Oh, yeah. You know, I spend about two hours a day, not just on trading, but on, you know, looking at news, educating myself, you know, looking at different websites. I, I probably spend two hours a day on on it. Yeah. Allen: So we're doing two hours a day, we're making a really nice income. But now you're gonna go back? Because you're going to basically you're diversifying, right? Correct. One income source. Now you're adding a second income source, which is going to take more time. But you know, going back to work, it does, you know, keep you mentally sharp gives you social interaction, there's there's several benefits of working with a lot of other people. And so that's going to give you so do you think you'll still be able to do the two hours a day of trading? Todd: Oh, I think so. I think I can still, you know, check in on it. First thing in the morning, I've got to the app on my phone, where I can keep tabs. And, you know, I think I need to jump in. You know, I certainly could do that for a few minutes during the day. And then, you know, check in again in the evening. So I think if I just keep tabs on it all day long, I can control what my positions are doing. Allen: Okay. Yeah because some people might listening to this might be like, what? This guy's crazy, he's doing so great. Why is he going to, you know, why doesn't he just continue to scale? Why is he going to go back to the workforce, you know, if he can, if he can take some of that money that he's throwing off every month that he doesn't need, you can put that in some other passive investment, maybe some rental properties, or investing in some other companies or whatnot? What would you say to that? Todd: Well, I think right now, like I just said, I have, you know, my kids are young adults. So I've got three kids in college right now. And so the expenses are pretty high. And so, you know, I think it's gonna benefit us if I can go back to work, get a regular paycheck, and do this on the side. You know, I'm almost twice as good as I was seven months ago. Allen: Right, and how long do you plan on working? Todd: You know, I don't know, I think probably at least get the kids out of college, and then, and then reassess. Right? You know, what we're doing. But I think one of the, you know, one of the benefits of trading is, you know, you can continue to do this, eventually, I'll retire. And once the kids get out of college, I could retire, I could do this. And I could do this. I'm sure. You know, as long as my mind is good, and into my 70s. Right? So so the long term plan is, keep trading. And I'll continue doing is as long as I'm able. Allen: Are you going to continue to scale it, or are you going to take that money and put it somewhere else? Todd: Well, I'll continue to scale it as far as I can on the oil and then I think you reach a limit where you have to do something else. Allen: Well, I mean, you already said that, right? You're putting it into the other stocks and the other.. Todd: Yeah so I'll put it in other socks and also with a, you know, I can't turn I can't trade retirement accounts and in oil, so I could trade that with, you know, some of the other strategies. Allen: Okay. Now, let me let me ask you on a on a personal level, because a lot of people they say they want to trade for a living, they say they want to go full time, right? But when it comes down to it, they just can't make the change they they either take too much risk, or they trade too much they over trade the under trade, they don't follow the rules. How did you stay emotionally grounded with that much pressure because it it does go for, you know, it has a lot of pressure, where it's like, hey, I need to not only just not lose money, but I have to make a certain amount. Otherwise, you know, maybe the lights get cut off, or I don't make the car payment. How did you handle that emotional pressure? Todd: Right, right, you're right, there's some pressure there, I think that, you know, I'm pretty easy going person, I can handle some of that stress and some of that risk. But on the other hand, I think you have to have a little bit of capital to absorb some of the downturns and I'm in a position where I have that it's not that I want to lose it. But you know, if it came to it, I could, I could lose a little bit and absorb that for a month or two. Right. So I think that's how I went through it. And but uh, you know, it does get a little bit stressful when you when you have some money on the line and the market turns against you. You can't make knee jerk reactions, you'd have to, you know, kind of settle down and maybe turn it off for a little bit and reassess. So, you know, just by doing that is the way I was successful that to keep a level head and not get my emotions into it. So.. Allen: Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a really interesting story because you never hear that where it's like, Hey, you know, I learned a skill I'm doing great at it, but then I'm gonna do it part time and go back to you know, this my job. I've never I've seen people do it. But it's, it's something that nobody talks about, because it's like, you know, "I hate my job". "I can't wait to get out of here". You know, "I'm gonna go after you to my boss". You know, they have they actually have a term. It's called FU money. You know, it's like, when you make so much money, that you'd have to care what anybody else does or says to you. You could be like, I'm rich. I don't care. Todd: Well I'm not, I'm not there yet. And that's a problem. Allen: But you but it seems like you enjoy your job. Like, enjoy what you do? Todd: Yeah. My original career? Allen: Uh huh? Todd: Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed it. I mean, it was nice. You know, it's very nice. Getting involved in trading and, and, you know, making money this way. But, yeah, so I don't mind going back. And, you know, getting back into my old career. Allen: Okay, cool. So.. Alright, so if we were talking to Todd, eight months ago, what advice would you give him? Todd: Oh, you know, I really don't think I would do anything different. No, I would do something different. I would be more clear with my wife about what I was doing. I think that that was my biggest challenge. It was our largest challenge. And, you know, my wife wasn't really didn't want to take the time to understand what this was all about. And, you know, eventually I was able to explain it to her. And so she kind of came around, but, you know, it was she's just risk adverse. We didn't we don't have the same opinion. And I was probably didn't communicate enough with her and early enough. So yes, my advice would be communicate more with my wife and, and do it earlier and more often and clear. You could do that. So that was my biggest challenge really. Allen: Okay. So if there was somebody that came to you and asked you for your advice, like, hey, Todd, you know, you've had great success. You've been doing this for a while now, how do I do this? How do I get started? What would you tell? Todd: Yeah well, I was talking to a couple people, that would be my brothers. And they, you know, we got talking. And what I did is I said, hey, look up Allen's website, again, your website, and I said, you guys should do this. It's, you know, it's a way to get another income. So now two brothers that have signed up for your programs. So that's my initial advice - anyone who's interested.. Allen: And do you think that in terms of time, do you think three months was enough? Could you have done it sooner? Would it have taken longer? How did that feel? Todd: No, I think three months was enough time, I think, you know, speaking of another challenge was once you start making trades with your own money, because I did paper trading for I think a month. Once you start making trades with your own money, you know, you have to ease into it, because there's, there's really a mental capacity that you have to get used to and get over with. So for example, start with a start with a couple $1,000 trading, I think, you know, you probably need an account worth $10,000. But don't bet at all, you know, don't don't trade at all, leave a cushion. I think one of your rules is leave 50 to a minimum 30% out there to absorb fluctuations in the market. So I've done that and but Just like you said, don't overtrain don't get, don't do too much where you're uncomfortable with it. And it takes a couple months to kind of get used to that mentally. Allen: If you don't mind, how much did you start with? In your account? Todd: So I started with $40,000. Allen: Okay. Todd: And then I scaled that up to 100,000. Okay, eventually. Allen: Awesome. Awesome. Cool. Yeah. So you were okay with that risk? The 40,000? I mean, you know, obviously, you didn't use all of it at one time, but Todd: No, exactly. I've never used at all and, you know, I'm, what I'm comfortable with, I guess is that you're not risking all of that. You can control your risks a little bit more, and, you know, make adjustments. So you don't take on that enormous of a risk. Allen: And those of us who are well, not us, but others who are trying to do this, how did you handle the scaling? Like you started with 40? And then how did you know that? Okay, now I'm going to add more, I'm going to add more. Todd: Yeah. So once I got more comfortable with it, after about three months, I was just, I wanted to make more trades and, and my margin, I was pushing the limits of my margin. So I needed to add to my account. So that's the point that I added to my account, and then I kind of kept scaling up, but I kept enough margin reserve, you know, to be comfortable. So, you know, so I really scaled it up over, you know, a three month period, I guess. Allen: And when you started talking to your brothers, and I'm sure other people probably asked you, hey, Todd, you're not working? What are you doing all day long? And you told them? Well, I'm an option seller? What are they? How did they respond? Originally, in the beginning? Todd: Yeah, most people, I had to kind of educate what it was and what it was about. Yeah. And I think that my two brothers, and when I started talking about it, they actually knew people who were trading options, but they didn't know a whole lot more about it. And, you know, so I was able to educate them a little bit about what it's about, and I told them about my success that I was having, and then that got them more interested. So but yeah, for the majority of people, I typically have to tell them what it's about. And, you know, the difference between what stocks are and what options are, you know, options are a derivative of stocks are not the same. So really had to just educate them and some people got it. And some people, you know, weren't really interested in knowing more. Allen: Now, their eyes glaze over and they say that's too complicated, I don't care. I don't want to learn about it. Right. And I, you know, but everybody's different, everybody. So it's interesting, very few people have heard about it. So I mean, that's why we're trying to do the podcast, and thank you for coming on to spread the word. I think it's really important to hear from real people that are actually doing this real money real, you know, everything's on the line. We're not just doing back testing here, just coming up with strategies or theories. You're actually doing it every day, month in month out, and you've had a lot of success with it. So kudos to you. Congratulations. I hope that your wife eventually does come around. Right? Yeah, like mine. I mean, with mine, I guess, you know, eventually I got her her own business. Like she wanted to start her own business. And so I'm like, Yeah, sure. Let's do it. You know, and I'm like, okay, she's off my back now. So she's happy, she's running her thing. You know, she's making money there. So she doesn't even she doesn't even ask me anymore. Right? But because in the beginning, it was like, she would come home from work. And I if I had a, she'd look at my face. And she'd be like, "Oh, the markets up or the markets down today. Right? You look sad". And I'm like, "Yeah, the markets down today". You know, I'm sad. And then the next day, she come home, and I'd be sad. And she's like, "well, what happened? I checked the market, the market is up, you should be happy". I'm like, "Yeah, no, I'm sad because the markets up today", like every day, no matter what, I would still be sad in the beginning, while I was learning, so it was it was really a roller coaster for both of us. But I'm really happy that it didn't take you that long. For me, it took a little bit longer to actually understand everything and get through it and get to that point where "Yeah, okay, I'm making enough, you know, to pay all the bills", and it was a hard thing for me. Todd: Right? Well, and, you know, speak to my wife, she's a competent professional person herself. She's very successful. And it's our 26th wedding anniversary here this week so. Allen: Wow, congratulations. Todd: Yeah. But very proud of her. And, you know, we just got to get over this, this pump and move on. Allen: No, but you're doing great. I mean, look, the future is looking good. You added a skill. You know, now you have something under your belt, you're like you said it, you know, I could do this into my 70s we have people doing it into their 80s. So it and with all the technology and the health advancements that are coming down the pike, who knows maybe 100, 120 that will still be trading, you know, you never know. Todd: Right. So that's, it's a long term plan. Yeah. Allen: Yep. It's awesome. It's awesome. I love it. I love it. So any any final parting advice you'd give to our listeners? Todd: No just keep plugging away and, you know, keep track of your markets and your positions and don't over trade. So probably the best advice yeah. Allen: Awesome. Was there anything before you came to us? Were there any other stuff that you had tried that didn't work? Todd: No, I didn't. To tell you the truth. I, I was traveling a lot for my job. And I came across your podcast first. And so I was listening to your podcasts. While I was on the road that got me more interested. I was trying to look for something that, you know, could supplement my income. And so I got interested, and then eventually signed up for one of your programs. So no, I didn't try any other programs before I, you know, found yours. And, you know, I kind of checked it out and it looked like it was viable. And so, so that's how I got going. Allen: Awesome. Yeah. Great, great. Great, great to hear. Great to hear. I really appreciate you coming on. And you know, I wish you all the best of success. And, you know, you're in our program so if anybody wants to reach out to Todd, he'll be in our group. And thank you again for being here. Todd: Okay. Thanks, Allen. Allen: Hmm hmm Todd: All right. Take care.

Eddie shares his trading journey and how to transitioned from a Startup CEO to full time trader. Allen: Hey passive traders, how you doing? This is Allen back with another episode today I have one of my good friends with me, Mr. Eddie So. He is an amazing Options Trader and he is 100% bought in, he loves what he's doing. And he's going to share with us some of what he is doing some of his results and his lessons that he's learned along the way. How are you doing any? Eddie: Doing pretty good. How are you, Allen? Allen: Good, good. Welcome to the show. Thank you for doing this. Eddie: Sure. Happy to. Allen: So Eddie, tell me tell me what do you do? Eddie, what do you do? Who is Eddie? Eddie: Yeah, so I started my career. pretty young. I think I've held a job since I was 15. And then I got into, I guess, my career job, if you call it when I was about 19, I was actually in financial services, I worked for Citi group for almost 10 years, I started as a bank teller and worked my way up. And you know, it was at one point a manager managing branches. And then just before I left, I actually I was on my way to becoming a stock broker, basically, I was getting my licenses, and actually had my series 663, I was going through and getting my series 7. And I live in the San Francisco Bay area, right in the heart of the Silicon Valley. And at that time, was right before the dotcom boom, and or bust, I should say, booming. And, and I was, you know, I noticed all these young guys around me, you know, making really good money in tech. So I decided at that point to make a career change after 10 years, and I got into tech. And so for the last 20 some odd you over 20 years, I've been in the tech industry here in the valley, I you know, always in some sort of sales capacity, whether it's business development, or partnership sales. And when I sort of got out of the working world, yeah, I had worked up to the executive ranks. And I was running in sales teams and partnership sales teams, for various tech companies. So I've worked for companies, small and large, you know, small startups all the way up to really large, you know, 100 billion dollar companies. Allen: Awesome Eddie: And then I left tech and I started my own startup that has been something I had wanted to do. And unfortunately, I started right at in 2020; and right before COVID hit. So we took a little bit of a hit, I knew we wouldn't be able to weather the storm. But I knew I had to wait, right? And so we're still in stealth mode. But one of the things that I realized is going through options, and this whole Option Genius thing. And trading just sort of came back around. Because I was actually a little bored during the pandemic and I was looking at, you know, what else can I do? And you know, maybe I could get some income I used to trade and and that's how I stumbled across Option Genius. And then I came to the realization of, well, why am I putting all this money into my startup, I could be putting all this money into investing. And so I made the decision earlier this year, having gone through your program for probably like six to nine months, I had seen enough and done enough and experienced enough to make a decision that you know what, as of January 1, 2022, so next year, I am going to basically live off of trading, meaning I won't be doing my startup anymore, because I think a lot of money into a timing wasn't the greatest and I'm thinking my returns are a lot better with trading. And I don't work, you know, even you know, it's a fraction of what I've done in terms of work versus a startup. So.. Allen: That's a pretty big move right there..you know? Eddie: Yeah, you know, I've been pretty fortunate in my career. I've worked hard, I've been pretty fortunate as well I've been part of some IPOs in Valley here and so it's you know, it helped me be able to sort of save up the startup right to fund the startup because in you know we were all have few partners and we're self funded where we were not at the stage where we're you know, looking for funding so it's actually early enough for me to get out still, and still have a decent amount to invest to make a living off of Allen: So are you going to get that money back that you put in or is that lost? Eddie: Yeah, so I'm you know, I'm going to continue as an investor but more on the silent sort of investor side versus you know, being an operations so I'll get that money back eventually. I may even invest more into it but I just will be sort of a silent investor non operational versus what I am today which I pretty much general you know, GM right now. Allen: So Okay, so let me see if I can recap that. So you were doing you've been doing well. Obviously, you're in you know, San Francisco, very expensive to live there probably one of the most expensive cities in the world to live. So obviously, your expenses are pretty high and your income has to be pretty high to match. You decide, hey, you know what, I'm going to start my own company. So you start that, doesn't go as as expected. And so while you are trying to get that off the ground, decide, hey, you know what, let me try something else, too and I learned this whole Option thing. And then you said, Okay, I'm doing better at the options, then at my job thing, so I'm gonna just switch. Eddie: Exactly, and it takes so much less time, right? I mean, if anybody's started a company, like yourself, right, you know, you're working, you know, 24/7. And so for, you know, for a larger return, and a lower amount of work and time of working, you know, it's a no brainer. Allen: Right, so how long have you been doing options, the way you've been doing it now? Eddie: Well, the way I've been doing it now with Option Genius, it's probably about a year or so like, you know, when I was like a city, city group, I did some trading and you know, but that was sort of small time, I was mostly buying options, and I wasn't very successful at it. And then now, you know, during the pandemic, as I was looking around, and searching, researching, I started swing trading a little bit. There was a service through Investor's Business Daily IBD, that they had a swing trading program, that they, you know, they basically just tell you when to get in and get out. And I did that I wasn't very successful, and you had to sit in front of the computer all day, as soon as you got one of the alerts, you got to run back and put in the trade or get out. And so that didn't work out too well. And I did just didn't really like the model. And I stumbled across Option Genius, I think you guys came up in one of my social media feeds, I don't, I can't remember his facebook or something, or through the web, it was online somewhere. And I looked at all your courses. And I thought, wow, this is, you know, this is exactly what I want to learn, right? Because I knew about Option just from my financial background, but I never really got deep into it to the point where I was really confident and having, you know, consistent success. And that's when I dove in. And, you know, I started with the oil program, as you know.. Allen: Right.. Eddie: And had some successes there, which then got me very interested in as credit spreads or layup spreads, yeah, lay up spreads. And then, so then I joined and subscribed to Simon says, and then I got, you know, I thought, Wait, I want to learn how to do this myself. And so I joined your credit, credit credit mastery course. And then after that, I read your passive trading book. And I wanted to get into passive trading, because then again, that means less work ahead, and I joined the passive trading group. And then most recently, you know, everything has been great. I just keep on wanting to learn more. And I most recently, I just completed your iron condor course, right? And in my mind, I want to have different strategies to execute depending on what the market does, right? Directional trades are great when you have a great bull market running like we have. But I also want to be able to trade successfully if the market is just going sideways or down and just have the sort of Arsenal to be able to handle whatever the market does your courses do that right? you enable people like myself, your students to be able to have that sort of all around education or knowledge. Allen: Yep. Yep. I mean, we try to have something for every single market you know, and, and you kind of did it the opposite way. We kind of tell people "hey, you start with passive you know, build up something there, learn the basics, and then you can move up to credit spread mastery, and then iron condors and then get into oil last" because it's probably the most advanced he just you went the opposite way. And he started with the toughest one first, and then you, you end down but you know, either way it works as long as it makes sense. Right? So.. Eddie: Yeah, it made sense to me. And maybe because I had my financial background, but yeah, you're you're absolutely ready for somebody. Yeah, that was probably the thing for me. I wouldn't call it a regret but I wish I had to do over I will probably have started with passive trading and work my way up in that sort of curriculum the way that you just described I think starting with oil was a was definitely a little backwards. Allen: Yeah, I think maybe though, that might have helped you to get it off the ground faster. Eddie: True Allen: You know, because with the passive trading, there's different strategies involved. And so it's like, oh, do I do this one, let me learn about this one. They learn we learn about this and they learn we learn about this one. Sometimes people get confused or they get you know, it just takes too long for them to get through it. Where oil options is just one strategy you know, just say, hey.. Eddie: True. You're right. Allen: This is it. This is what we're doing this way we're doing it Boom, boom, boom, it works. Here's money. Oh, yeah, a success, right? Eddie: Yeah, you're right. Because thinking back that's what sort of got me into it and more excited as I was having quick successes with what I was learning in oil, which is what got me interested to the next one, and so forth. So yeah, you're probably right. Allen: I think we might have to restructure.. Eddie: The curriculum Allen: Yeah. So you've been doing this for about a year now? And how have you been doing, how are your results? Eddie: Pretty good, I'm at for the year, the date right around 60 a little higher than 62 or 63% year to date. So somewhere around there, and you know I follow the rules, right? And I shoot for 10% every month. The interesting thing though, is that when I looked back at my trades, what I learned is that every time I lost, it was because I didn't follow something in the rules. And so had I followed the rules. I think I would probably be somewhere in the 70s.. Allen: Okay. All right. Eddie: So lesson learned for me yeah is is you know, you just got to follow the rules don't let the emotions or anything get to you you know you have to be very disciplined in how you invest and if you you know those rules came from years of your knowledge and experience right? And doing this so you know, you just gotta follow and don't let anything else get in the way and you'll be fine. Allen: That's probably the hardest part, following the rules.. and it used to be me, I don't follow them 100% of the time either and then we get burned.. Eddie: Right! I sometimes think oh, you know, I think one of my mistakes earlier on I was I was actually I believe too much in the market or I was too much of an I was too optimistic if you will, I would be down on some and I wouldn't get out at 25% right which is what the rules say. And so you know then I watched it and I just watch it kept watching it and it just went down down down also and I'm in the money so you know luckily I was saved a few times where you know came back up and I took you know less of a loss but in general again you know, it's I should have just followed the rules and everything would have been fine. Allen: Yep, I mean well said. I mean it's easier it's easier said than done right? I mean you've been there and it's like okay emotionally I want to do it but it's gonna come back it's gonna come back and then that I think that discipline part is is the thing that comes in last after years and years of like, you know, getting your butt kicked over and over again, I think that finally we finally get smart enough to be like okay, fine I'm gonna get out you know and then eventually you get to the point where like right now it's all fresh it's all interesting and it's all new so the money aspect and you know getting that return and be like oh man, you know I want to get up to 100% this year. Oh, you know if that's your goal, it's really motivating eventually after a while you get to the point where you know what I'm just gonna try not to lose money - that becomes a whole new ballgame it's like yeah, I'm gonna put it on and most of the time it's just gonna work but the month that it you know the month that he gets in trouble I just don't want to lose money. You know? And then if that's if that works then overall at the end of the year I'm going to have fine, so it's not like we don't want the roller coasters we just want steady steady steady a little bit dip okay and then steady steady dip and if they so, but you'll get there I mean, eventually it just yeah, I think it's a natural progression mental aspect as well you know, it's not eventually you'll get to the point where they okay another winning month, go home, you know, it's not that exciting anymore. But yeah, so I mean 60 some percent for the year would you say 63? Eddie: 63 Allen: 63% for the year to date and I mean, we've only been you know, eight months so that's freaking incredible. You know, very kudos to you, man. That's awesome.  Eddie: No thank you. Appreciate it. Allen: So I did want you to show me or show everybody your license plate. That was really cool. what you just did. Eddie: Oh, yeah. I don't know if this was a podcast or.. Allen: We're recording. We're gonna show the video too, we put up on YouTube but.. Eddie: Yeah, so I just got this license plate. This is Yeah, I wanted to surprise Allen during this during this video. It just sort of shows how committed I am. You know, I love it. I live this stuff every day now. And it's exciting. I think it's exciting and fun. Right? And I wish I actually would have found out about this sooner and had done this when I was you know, a little younger even. You know, never too late. Allen: No. I mean for those of you guys who are listening on the podcast, Eddie has a license plate OP TRADER oh no sorry OG TRADER no was it OP, no OP TRADER, yes, Options Trader.. Eddie: ..for option trader. Allen: I like it. I like it. And I love the colors too. Looks really nice. So is that gonna go on your Lamborghini? Eddie: No, another car. It's already on there. One day, I can do that. Yeah. So no like that. Hopefully that tells you I'm all in. Allen: Okay, so now you said you're all in and you're going to make the switch permanently or full time to trading in a few months from now. So what size account will you be playing with at that time? Eddie: Yeah. So I think in order to be totally comfortable, being able to make a living, and also keep in mind that, you know, I'm not always going to get the 10% every month, it's going to be about a million dollars. And so the look at, you know, even Of course, 10% is great a month, right? On a million bucks. Yeah, you can definitely, you know, live off that. But even if.. Allen: Yeah I think you can you live off that. 100,000 a year. Eddie: Right? And I'm thinking, Jesus, you know, I could be doing this or putting money in the startup, right, which that will come but it's gonna take a little bit more time. This is more immediate. Allen: Okay, so now how are you going to break that up? Because you've done you're doing oil options, you're doing layups, and then you're also doing stock? So how are you spreading that out? Eddie: Yeah, so actually, before I even get to, to that, let me just mention I was gonna say this earlier is, I spoke with my accountant and he actually said, Hey, Eddie, you know, I advise you to actually form a business, create an LLC, and trade in your LLC, because you'll have certain tax benefits, you can write off the Commission's and the and the fees, and you can write all the courses you're taking, of course, I'm not giving, you know, accounting or tax advise here, this is just what my, my accountant told me. So everybody's listening, maybe you ask your own attorneys. But so what I've actually done was just earlier this week, I formed a new company in California - an LLC, just to trade and I'm in the process of opening an account with TD Ameritrade. So I can move from my personal account to this business account, you know, to trade, and there's some liability stuff to there that permit protection from you get sued. You know, they don't go after your personal assets. But I just thought I'd throw it in there. Because you know, it's important if you're going to do this full time, I think. Allen: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And then especially, like you said, the liability thing, you know, when you get into the bigger numbers, you get into a car accident, or your wife gets into a car accident, or somebody slips and falls in front of your house, they can go after all of your personal assets. That includes your trading account. So you know, if that's what you're using to pay all the bills, you want that set off aside in a separate place where nobody can touch it, and if it's a totally separate thing, so I really like the fact that you you've gone ahead and done that. It's very important. Eddie: Yeah, no, I thought it was too and I have some real estate too. And I keep that separate from that. And it just makes sense all around. Allen: Hmm, yep, yep. Okay. Eddie: And then so in terms of sort of how I split it up, right now, I'm doing about 75 to 80% credit spreads. Allen: Okay. Eddie: In my mind, I think that's a little high. That's why I took your iron condor course, because I felt like, you know, I, you know, in a good bull market, the credit spreads, directional trades, you know, we'll be successful. But what if we go into a sideways market? What am I going to do then. And so that's where the iron condors would come into play. And I also moved my IRA from JP Morgan to TD Ameritrade without paying somebody, you know, a good amount of money to manage it. I was part of their private client program. And they were doing everything and I'll paint a bunch of fees, I got my statement, I looked at a bunch of fees. And I'm like, you know, I could do better than this. So I got rid of them. And I just transferred it over to my TD Ameritrade account, so I can manage it myself. And what I plan on doing there is selling covered calls, and maybe cash secured puts and, yes, I have a you know, more well diversified portfolio than, you know, just doing mostly credit spreads. Allen: That's awesome. Yeah, so I was I was gonna say that, you know, if you're doing that much, and it's if that's the whole size, but obviously you have your trading account, and then you have your retirement funds. So in the retirement funds, we want something a little bit more stable, maybe, you know, something that's gonna instead of like our options, who you know, they last a month or two things expire, the stocks if you're owning or ETFs. Like if you get an index ETF or something, you can just hold on to that for the next, you know, 10, 15, 20 years, however you need to and keep cash flowing that so that's what we talked about in the passive program. And then in the credit spread mastery, that's the one that you're talking about with the the credit spreads and the layups. So, I guess, you know, I guess depending on what your goals are, you know how much you need every month. You might even, you probably don't need the whole million depending If you, you know, if you get aggressive and you use all of it or most of it, then obviously you're probably gonna have a lot left over. But you know, thinking about Hey, making 5, 6, 7 percent a month, that's still gonna grow pretty much. So I think we get to the point where, okay, you know, like you were talking about the discipline issue where "Hey, I'm gonna let it go", well now it's like, "okay, I don't need a whole 10% You know, I'm fine with like four. So if I'm up a nice amount, you know, do I wait until the end of the week? Or do I wait till expiration? Do I wait till I'm up 10% on this trade spread?" Maybe I don't, you know, I'm up 7% "Hey, I'm taking my money, and I'm going to the beach". I'm up, I'm done. I'm done for the month, I don't need to worry about it. So I think that gives you when you have more money than you need, because a lot of people do that they do the opposite, especially when they're like, Oh, yeah, I want to I want to get into trading. I'll do it full time. But I need to make $10,000 a month. Okay, great. How much money do you have to trade with? Oh, I have 50,000. It's no, it's not gonna work. You know, there, even if you have 100,000, if you have to make that 10% every month, that stress level on you, it just rises exponentially much higher that pressure, and then you start making mistakes. Allen: So I mean, you know, I don't know how much you need every month to survive. I'm assuming it's not going to be 100,000. But, you know, if it's like, "Hey, I have more money than I need. So I don't have to hit that 10% goal". If you can hit it, that's great. That's awesome. Maybe that's enough for two months, you know, and if you like "Hey, you know, for some of these months that we've talked about in the past, you know, some months are really rocky in the stock market, September being one of them, October being one of them. So if you have, you know, if you're doing really well and you're up 60, 70 80%, like you are now, September, October, maybe you're like, you know what, I think I'm gonna take a break, I'm gonna go on vacation these two months, and I'm not even going to risk it. Right? It's like, what's the, what's the thing, I could lose 30%? or I can make 10%? Do I want to try it? You know, and then maybe just don't and obviously, you'll see that when you actually do it over time. And you'll see what are your tendencies and what months are good for you and not and, but I really like the way that you're thinking about it, you know, it's like, hey, in a bull market, I'm going to be doing these spreads. Sideways market, I'm gonna switch over to condors a little bit more, you know, in the down market, you can go back to spreads, but the spreads, they'll work even in a sideways market. It's just, if it's very volatile, then that's the one that we don't want to play in, because we don't know exactly which way it's going. So if it's going sideways, we can still play a layup or a credit spread, but it's not as.. It won't be as comfortable as we normally are. Eddie: Right. Allen: So then how much of it how much of the account will be in Oil Options? Eddie: Probably around 15. Okay, times 20 that's a good amount on depending on the month, but again, you know, I want to diversify even more, if I can right? You know, I may even you know, later on when things get are sort of more streamlined for me, and I've reached my goal. I need to look into other commodities too, right? Besides oil. Yeah, well, you have that again, a further level of diversification besides equities and just oil. Allen: Right now how much time are you spending on your trading? Eddie: Not too much I spend a little bit of time when I'm putting the trades on so I do my research, I look at the charts just like you taught us you know, I'll take a look at news to see if there's anything affecting it Look at you know, all the different things on the checklist and the rules you gave us that takes I don't know maybe an hour when I do that, but after that and I usually do monthlies right and after I put it in and the rest of the month I'm in the morning you're just sort of looking at it, right? Maybe I'll look at it once in the morning once usually around noon before the market closes in Pacific time my time to just make sure nothing you know happened and then that's about it. And you know, then I'll work in most of the time if I'm up in a certain amount really fast for one particular stock or trade, I'll just get out and take the game and then go back in if there's enough time for the month so then you're sort of double dipping and so I'll watch for that and then you know and then apply that accordingly. I don't even adjust that much to be honest with you because I you know I thought about you know what Simon Says does write on his layup spreads and you know, the fact that you've done back testing and you know sometimes even if you don't adjust you end up doing better than trying to adjust and save the trade. I've gotten to a point where I just get out you know if it if it's you know, it's gone to a certain amount I'll get out and I you know, maybe I'll get back into that stock maybe the next month. But most of the time I've been getting into something else, and not worrying about that one, that lost one. Allen: If you can get to that level emotionally, it just takes all the stress away. You know, yeah, you'll you'll know at the beginning of the month, you'll be like, you know what I'm putting on these. And I'm gonna ask you this question, you know, how many trades do you put on every month at the, you know, at one time how many trades you have, but like, let's say you have 10 trades on you're like, you know what, I'm gonna probably gonna lose on two or three of these, the other ones, they're gonna make money. So when I get one, like, Oh, that was a loser. Okay, I'm taking it off. Let me go find something else. And that just takes all the stress away, instead of Oh, my God, this one has to come back. Whoa, yeah. And then you're watching it every day, and you're worried about it, and you're checking the news, watching, you know, your business channels and all that. And it just, it's not how it's supposed to work out. And the cool thing about the Simon says, trades, I mean, we have nine years of real money, you know, it's not even back tests. It's like real money trades, that are that are the results. And it's like, okay, okay, I think that, you know, it's been through up markets down markets, bear bull, all of them is like, Okay, I think this is a little bit stable. Now, I think this actually worked. So I feel pretty confident being like, Hey, you know what? This stuff works, you know, to go out and say it, before the first few years, I was kind of hesitant, you know, it'd be like, yeah, hey, this is our track record. You know, you make up your mind, you think about it, you look at it, and if you want to do it, you do it. But now after nine years, I can I think I'm pretty confident in saying, "Yeah, you know, this stuff works". So if you wanted to do it just do it, right, so, so let me ask you, how many trades do you have on total? Eddie: Well, this month, I'm being cautious, like you said, you know, you sort of warned the class and I so I'm in less, but typically, I'm in about 10 to 12 a month. Allen: Okay Eddie: Usually what I do is I have, instead of a 10% goal, which I use as a sort of an overall metric, I typically have a goal for $1 amount goal for each trade I put my place in, so I'll know and I'll put the same amount of money, the exact same amount of money in every trade, right? So not gonna do little here. And then more on this one, everything's the same. So across the board, so I know exactly. "Okay, What's a 10%? gain, for example? And what's 25% gain? What's that dollar amount, I can get in or whatever. And so, I know from the odds that, you know, you need to be doing about 10, trades, you know, 10, 12 trades in order to, for me to hit that dollar goal every month. And so, you know, so that's typically about 10 to 12. And I think, you know, you're telling us too, you sort of taught us, hey, in terms of the number of trades, you know, get don't get to a point where it's, you know, difficult to track, right, and I think, you know, be beyond 10 or 12, would probably be hard for me, I'll lose sort of lose sight. I don't follow the news. I'll miss stuff and so that seems to be the sweet spot. Again, according to the rules of where I try to stay about 10 or 12 a month. Allen: Right. Okay. Sounds good. So now, while you've been doing this, what was the biggest challenge that you faced in terms of implementing or learning? Or what was the hardest thing that you had to overcome? Eddie: You know, I think for me, if it's a little bit different, I actually jumped in pretty quickly. I didn't do very many paper trades. I think my you know, regret as I think, in the beginning, I was sort of too optimistic. And I would do a trade and I'd be, it'd be down, I'd be like, Oh, no, I'll go back up. And also, the next day is really down, right. And so if I had to do over again, I would probably do a lot more paper trading, to the point where I would do it for probably three months. And until I have that sort of consistent return, then I would maybe switch over again, this is what you teach in the class, and I didn't listen. And so you know, I mentioned before, the time that I lose is when I don't follow the rules. And this is one of the first rules you taught us. I didn't follow it. And in the beginning this last year, right? In 2020, when I first started, you know, I had a couple of couple of losses there that hurt. And, you know, but I've definitely learned from it. Allen: Right? Yeah. So if I remember, if I remember the first couple months, you took some you took a big loss. And then after that, then he was on fire, and you were just doing 10%, 10%, 10% every month. Yeah. Eddie: Yeah. After I learned the lesson of following the rules, I decided I told myself, you know what, I'm not going to let any you know, emotion, good or bad, optimistic or pessimistic? I'm just gonna follow the rules. And so I did that. And so I was doing pretty good. I was hitting, I think there's three months in a row where I hit 10% like running, you know, one month, month after month, and so I ended up doing pretty good. Allen: So do you think that's, that's what it was that what clicked for you? Is like, Hey, I'm just gonna, I'm just trying it on my own. I'm trying to, you know, adapt on my own, but if I just, I had there's a road there, I just need to follow the road. Eddie: Exactly I came to this point where, you know, I took a big loss. And I thought to myself, shoot, should I be doing this? And I thought about a thought about a loss and, you know, lost sleep over a couple of nights. And I thought, you know what, you know, these rules were developed, you know, on purpose. And it's based on years and years of trading experience, right from you and the team. And so why am I not following these rules. And so I had to have sort of that heart to heart with myself to say, Eddie, stop being too optimistic or stop, you know, doing things that are, you know, that go against you. Just follow it, do it for a few months, and see what happens. And that's what I did. And that's when I had those three consecutive months of percent. And then I'm like, now I'm looking back, you know, so wanted to, you know, sort of smack smack myself in the back in the head, you'll want to just do that in the first place. Right? So, but it was a lesson learned. And that's, you know, one of the things going into this year that I told myself, is that, you know, I must, you know, just follow the rules. And you know, I think we've done pretty well there. Allen: Cool. So now the spread trades, how do you find them? Eddie: Yeah, so I'll go through the charts exactly, as you explained it in the training, look at the trends pretty much step by step, what you look at, you know, what you shared with us, what really helped me is that the credit mastery course that I took- that was different than your other courses, because your other courses were mostly videos, and maybe some homework here and there, which is good because it you know, reinforces the knowledge that the credit mastery course was good in that we did it for three months straight, every week for a couple hours, the same trade, you know, same looking for the trade staying, you know, how to look for the trade, how to, you know, evaluate one trade against another, and, and, you know, then placing the trade, choosing the trade and then actually placing the trade. And that helps so much, because after that three months, and we're just doing it over and over again, where now I can you know, I know all the math and everything of what I need to do, I don't have to look at a cheat sheet, I'll just figure out on calculator real quick, what's the, you know, what's the max loss? What's the max, you know, Max, gain -  a note, you know, I have all that ready to go. So I could be a little bit faster. And so, you know, getting back to your, I guess your your question about how I go through the Choose the trade, really just I followed your steps. Allen: Do you have any favorites? Eddie: Yeah, so I've, um, I just haven't been in the tech industry for a while, I tend to like the tech sector. I mean, it's been obviously it's been doing well. So, you know, your your typical Google Apple, Cisco for a while, you know, those types of companies again, you know, what he taught us? You know, I don't do any smaller companies, right. I, you know, I want big, strong companies that, you know, won't, you know, won't lose a significant price overnight. Allen: Right. Eddie: So the big strong guys that usually in the tech sector, right now, as I mentioned before, I'm in Google for this period, and then PayPal, but I also try, obviously, you know, I try to diversify, too, right? I don't want everything in tech. Right? I don't want everything in credit spreads to begin with, that I don't want everything in tech, I try to mix it up a little bit. And you know, how I usually go with the trend of what's in the news, too, right? You know, okay, it's reopening stocks, okay, which kind of, you know, is a Travelocity or, you know, airline stock, and you know, and then if it's a, you know, it could be a growth, it could be a growth period, and I will look for growth period stocks, and pretty much look at the look at what's going on. Allen: Awesome. Cool. Okay. Now, you said that you've made the decision to go ahead and go full time. What was the trigger? Like, how did you feel comfortable to the point where, hey, you know, I'm ready to do this. How did you know that? Because a lot of people, they have that same goal. But for whatever reason, they're afraid to quit the job or they're afraid to go in full time or put all their money into this. What was it for you that mentally had you prepare? Because obviously, you have a family? So you know, you probably talked to them about it, and they had their input as well. And they have to be comfortable? Because if the wife says no, then it's kind of like a no. How did you get to that point? Eddie: You know, when I saw consistent results, where month after month, I was not just in the positive but sort of healthy, right? I mean, not everyone was 10%, obviously, right? I and I mentioned my 63% year to date, but I saw it, as soon as I saw that consistency. I knew that you know, I You know, there's definitely something there and I didn't obviously overnight, think about, you know, just quitting the job, whatever. And doing this full time, it was sort of an evolution, right? Where the first light bulb went off well, you know, there's consistent results here. And and I can do it month after month, and then is you when you get consistent you start having these ideas of all what, you know, what's next, what else can I do, right? And you know, what's the, you know, it opens up your opportunities, I guess, and you start thinking about what, you know, everything else, and it got to a point there also to putting money and investing money in my startup, you know, I saw I didn't see the return right away, I know what's gonna come, there's no doubt about that, I believe in my partners, etc. But the results weren't coming month after month, right that you had, it's a long term investment, you sink a lot of money into it, and just don't see the results have passed. And so because of that consistency, and my ability to sort of do it myself, right, and produce those results. That's what got me thinking, hmm, why should I continue to put money in the startup when I can be putting it, you know, into trading and be able to, hopefully, right, earn a pretty good living right?  Allen: Where you're getting paid by working at the startup. Eddie: We were in stealth mode for a little over a year, I wasn't getting paid regularly. But my partners and I had all been in tech before and you know, we had some IPO, money set aside and savings again, we were self funding this thing, right? That I wasn't paying myself regularly. So that was another thing is that and that's actually one of the reasons why I look to see during the pandemic, I was a little bored. Because you can only do so much when you start a company when you're in the pandemic. So that's one of the reasons I started looking out there to see what else was there and, you know, looking at options, etc, reminded me of my financial services days, and that's when I decided to take the plunge. Allen: Awesome. Okay, so yeah, and I mean, I know you're, you're a smart guy, so you probably do also have a backup plan. Right? I would assume that if you needed to, you could go back to working at the startup. Eddie: Oh, yeah, no question, right? I mean, I've got Yeah, absolutely. That was part of the consideration is that if all else fails, if the market tanks or whatever, I can always go out and get back into tech, I can, you know, go back into my startup, right in a more active role. So yeah, there's definitely you know, Plan B, Plan C, but you know, having a taste of this sort of lifestyle of the trading lifestyle I mean, once you have that experience for a couple of months you know.. Allen: It's hard to go back. Eddie: It's hard to go back. And so now you know, I'm at the point where and maybe this is mean with just daydreaming but you know, I always wanted to give back more than I am now, right? I mean, I volunteer at my church every Sunday and you know, I donate and etc. but I knew I could be doing more and so I thought you know what, after if I can really make this thing work I'm gonna have a lot more time and probably financially be able to contribute more than I am now. And so that's another way you know now that I'm sort of getting closer to that July 1 deadline I set for myself you know, I'm already picturing 6 months 12 months down the line of this thing successful. What am I going to do after that? And so I would love to volunteer more I would love to contribute more financially to different causes. And look how I can do more from that perspective. Allen: That's awesome i love it i love it i love the fact that you're giving back you know i mean that's the primary goals of me starting Option Genius was like hey, you know let me help people make more money so that they can then use that to go and make the world better cuz I can't do that myself so you know like I try but it's not I'm just one person but if we have a whole army of people that feel the same way and that they don't have that stress of you know, I gotta go get my money today, I gotta go get my paychec,k I gotta go cash this and there's not enough left at the end of the month where I can actually go out and help somebody else. I think if we have a whole army of people who are doing it this way it'll help definitely spread the good word and.. Eddie: Absolutely Allen: ..be better so what do you think the future holds for you now? Eddie: Well, I'm gonna continue working on the goal. Hopefully I'll report back you know maybe first second quarter next year and share with you know how I'm doing I mean we talk every week on our calls anyways but you know we could do a follow up then but  Allen: Yep would love to do that. Eddie: No, I you know, i'm well on my way now. I'm pretty prepared waiting for some last minute things like forming the business entity and waiting for that to come through and you know, just sort of logistical things like that before I actually start you know, going off in 100% so no I want to thank you and your team you know, I, gosh you know, I think about if I hadn't stumbled across right, you know all the great stuff that you guys are sharing and teaching you know I wouldn't have this you know, I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't be you know, have this opportunity by and I'd probably still be not that as a bad thing by be you know, still working a startup but the, again the return wouldn't come for you know, a number of years versus you know, almost a near instantaneous with trading the way you've taught us. So I thank you and you have a great staff on your team very responsive. You know, sometimes when I freak out and I have a question, you know, I'll send it over and Cory or yourself will, you know, send an answer right back so it makes me feel, you know, feel good that I have that sort of support, plus the you know, Facebook group, the weekly calls that we do All of that is you know it's very helpful because you can't do it alone. You have to, especially in something like this where you're, what you're taking on. If you do it yourself, it could take you ages but if you have a group, you have a leader that can share with you what they had done so you can learn from it and do it too and then you have that support network like I go back and forth on on chat with with Nelson in our group, you know, you make friends right and then you you know, you have that support network you know, and you encourage each other to to do better. Allen: Yep, I mean, you know, slowly slowly we're getting there where we're building up this whole system and I think you know, I mean it's been a pleasure to work with he's been a pleasure to to help you and to hang out with you and talk to you and I mean, you've done it you've done everything you know, when you've taken everything and you've you've used it you've learned it you've internalized it and then you've actually implemented it. There's a lot of people that get to that point but they don't implement or they get stuck somewhere along the way and it's you know, but you had a you had a dream you had a reason a goal and you were like okay, I'm gonna take this it makes sense to me I'm gonna try it and then it worked. And then you just kept going with it. So kudos to you and congratulations on all your support and it's been a it's been a wonderful No, it's been a wonderful experience to have you with us. Eddie: Thank you. Thank you But one thing I will mention though, Alan is that I think the key for you know, anybody that's thinking about doing this is just do it. Right? You can start small, right? You don't have to start you know, do paper trade you just start with a few grand and just do it and learn it and anybody can do it right? You don't have to have a big account you know, just getting started is much better than than doing nothing nothing at all. So that's what I would you know, say to encourage other people that are thinking about doing this is you really have nothing to lose you know by by doing this I mean, the tuition fees that I pay were made up probably within my first couple of things, right? So you know, there's absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. Allen: Yep. Thank you so much. Appreciate that. One last piece. I don't know I mean, this doesn't have anything to do trading and this is for those of you guys who are listening. I'm not an accountant or an expert on this. But you said you were opening your company in California. Did you look at opening it in a different state? Eddie: Yeah, I actually.. It's a good question. I looked at Delaware Allen: Okay Eddie: And I actually opened my startup filed in Delaware because there are some laws there that again speak with your own attorney but that are more favorable to business owners over there. I didn't feel like I needed it here with with just a trading you know, because I'm not I won't have clients or anything with my trading account it's just me doing my my own trading that I didn't meet really need the Delaware protections Allen: Okay, but in a tax point of view, because I know, California does have state corporate tax, right? Eddie: They do in terms of there's a couple of things that my account was explaining to me like mark to market and things that we'll be able to do. I can't remember the specific but I can't tell you that the good outweighed the bad. Allen: Okay, as long as you looked at it, that's fine. You know, because I've heard a lot and you know, whenever we're opening a corporation in Texas, I don't have a problem because there's no corporate tax. But that's what people say that hey, there's no personal income tax here, or there's none in Florida. But even for opening a corporation. I've heard lately that hey, you know, Texas is okay, Florida is okay. Delaware is really great if you're going to go public because there are banks, you know, like banking, those guys, they have a lot of protections there. Nevada is a really good one for other things. So okay, but as long as you have a cover, that's cool. I just wanted to ask Eddie: Yeah, cool, cool.  Allen: Cool. Cool. Cool. Any final takeaways or bits of advice you got I mean, you shared a lot but if anything else that's.. Eddie: No, I think I'll report back in you know, next year but again, a big thank you I mean, I you know, this journey has been awesome. I mean, of course, I mentioned that, you know, in the beginning you know, it took some hits, and you know, I would say you know anybody thinking about doing this, do it - don't get discouraged, you're gonna have ups and downs, that's just you sort of built in, but there's definitely a lot more ups than downs. So, you know, doing stuff like this is a lot better than doing nothing at all. And so I would encourage everybody to, you know, jump right into it and learn. Allen: Awesome. Eddie: And again, a big thank you to you and your team as well. Allen: You're welcome. You're very welcome. But thank you so much for being here and helping us out. Of course, Eddie: Anytime

Opportunities don't last. Now as I record this episode, Bitcoin is trading somewhere around $50,000 a coin. And no, this is not going to be an episode about Bitcoin. So just hang with me, okay? Some people are saying though, that Bitcoin is going to go all the way to $100,000. Some people are saying it's going to go up to $500,000. Now that'd be great, right? For people who own Bitcoin, I mean, I have some, so that would be great. If it goes up, that'd be really nice. I mean, a 10x return from 50 to 500,000. But how long is that really going to take? I mean, might take years, might take decades? I mean, the more expensive something gets, the more money it's going to take. buying it to move it higher, right? What if you had bought it when it was like $10 a coin? Back in 2013? It was bad. He was at price to 10 bucks a coin somewhere around there. And then it jumped up to $220. That's a 20x return. Wow, how long do you think that took, right? To go from 10? To 220? How long do you think it take really long? How long do you think it took? It took four bucks. That's it just four months, 20x return. So I think that it's safe to say that the easy money in Bitcoin has already been made. I mean, sure, you can hang on to it, you know, you could buy some at 50,000 a coin, and it might go to 70,000; 100,000; 200,000, that would be a really nice return. But I don't know how long it's going to take. The easy money has already been made. My point is that in life, we are presented with many different opportunities. Almost every day, there's a new opportunity presented to us. Some of them suck, most of them. Right? Your brother-in-law comes with a can't miss, you know, get rich quick scheme is probably gonna suck. Right? Some are okay, some are good. And then there are a few that are amazing - life changing. And realistically, you only need one or two of those life changing ones to change your life to be amazing. But they don't last. That's what I came to realize that they don't last. Now, in my last job, only real job I really had. We taught people how to get into and train for the mortgage business. We trained mortgage brokers. This was way back in 2001. And business was booming. And so my boss was taking things slowly. I mean, for him, it was just a cash cow. Money just kept coming and kept coming in. I mean, we were dominating that market. But we knew that we were leaving millions on the table by moving slowly. But that was okay with my boss. Oh, right, who's gonna go against the bus? We thought that we would be doing that for years. Because I mean, mortgages are not going anywhere, right? Who can afford a 200; 300; 400; $500,000 house, you got to have a mortgage, if not a mortgage is going to be some other kind of loan event or something like that mortgages are not going anywhere. So we're in the right industry. Or so we thought. But then in the financial crisis, everything stopped. They stopped doing mortgages. And so people didn't need our training and our marketing training to do nothing because they couldn't get their loans approved. And the legislature, right? They wanted to find a scapegoat. They wanted to find "hey who causes financial crisis"? And so who do they listen to? They listen to the lobbyist, and who had the best lobbyist. The people with the most money, the banks, the people that were actually approving the loads, right? And so they listened to the lobbyists and they blamed everything on the mortgage brokers. So industry changed. Mortgage brokers, the rules change for them, and most of them were put out of business and out of work overnight. The opportunity ended. Now it's been several years since then. There are, there has been an uptick now in mortgage brokers. So that kind of industry is kind of coming back now. But that was a long time ago that opportunity ended and it's not going to be like that again, right? When we are in the middle of an opportunity, we feel that we have time that it will last for long, long periods of time, that there we will be able to get to it eventually, even if we're not doing it now it's like, oh, yeah, I know about that. I'm going to get to it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to take advantage of it. It's gonna be great when that happens. And many times we do get in. Sometimes we don't, but sometimes we do. But usually, after the easy money has already been made, and now we curse our luck. "Oh, man. Sure got in earlier. Oh, man, this doesn't work, man". Now, look, we all know that self-driving cars are coming. Right? We see the headlines that had self driving cars, coolest new thing, eventually, technology is going to be there. I test drove a Tesla just to check it out. And it was awesome. Really, really, really cool that it can drive by itself, parked by itself, drive by yourself changed lanes in traffic. I mean, it was scary. But it was really cool. I mean, you can see the future right there. Now I love driving but I still I want to self driving. You know, I love to drive. But I want that opportunity to be able to do that. Now, before it seems like we're going to get self driving cars. Maybe before everybody gets a self driving car, you know what we're gonna have? I think we're gonna have self driving trucks before that. 18 wheelers, semis, those big ones, the big ones that have been hauling the crates around and the cars and you know, the big trucks, the 18 Wheeler trucks. They already have self driving semis in Florida, all over Florida. self driving semi trucks, 18 wheelers, with no driver in the truck. If anything goes wrong, sorry there's no driver there to fix it. And these trucks have already driven millions of miles on Florida highways already done. Now they're coming to Texas highways for more testing, but they've already driven millions of miles. Now currently, there are over 5 million in this country, truck drivers, taxi drivers and Uber drivers, their opportunity is ending. If they don't see that already, then they need to open their eyes. And then you have all their technologies, you got virtual reality, you got artificial intelligence, you put those two together and the stuff that they're coming out with the opportunity for many other fields is coming to an end too - very quickly, probably much faster than we can even anticipate. Paralegals, translators, bookkeepers, accountants, and so so many more, they're all going the way of the truck driver. Now, after the corona bear market in 2020, stock market rebounded and stocks jumped, those that bought close to the lows, rode the markets higher. But those people, those traders, those investors that waited until close to the end of the year, missed out on amazing gains of 200, 300, 400% - because by then, the easy money had already been made. Now Sure, even after that stocks kept going up, but not nearly as much as they did earlier. So I'm just trying to give you different examples of opportunities that you've had come in front of you. Now I don't know if you took advantage or not. But my point is that whenever we're faced with an opportunity, sometimes we don't see it for what it is. And we don't know when it's going to end. And so we think "oh yeah, I'll get to it. Oh, yeah, maybeit will be no, no, I'll wait to see what happens" and then you miss it. Passive trading right now is an easy money territory. It's been doing amazing for years. But how long will that last? Up till now, option selling has been pretty much under the radar. Few people know about it. Not too many people know how to do it. People come and go, especially when the market changes. You know, some people come in, they're experts, and then they get wiped out because they didn't really know what they're doing and they leave. But now, at least for me, I'm trying to spread the word I'm trying to fight, spread passive trading to everybody. And even if they don't do it to the point where they're trading for a living, but even if they make a couple of $1,000 extra a month, that's fine. I'm happy with that, that I was able to help those people. So yeah, maybe I'm part of the problem. Maybe I'm part of the reason that passive trading, the opportunity might go away. But I don't right now I don't see anything on the horizon that will lead to its demise. Okay, but then I didn't see the financial crisis happening either. You know, my crystal ball, I don't know, you know, in terms of crisises, and stuff like that. Not that good. Now, right now is the time to take advantage of passive trading. The time to spend time learning and mastering is now. The time to find a mentor and speed up your journey is now. The time to maybe commit more resources to your passive trading is now before this opportunity passes you by, or the easy money is made. Now, options have been around for decades, and they will continue to be around because they serve a purpose in the market. But as more and more people find out about selling options, and passive trading, the amounts that we will make, will eventually start declining. until maybe one day, it won't be viable for us home gamers anymore. That could happen. Right? If 10 million people are trying to sell the same option, it's just gonna go down, down, down, down down in value until it's very cheap, and it's not worth trading anymore. That could happen. The good news is, you still have time is we got a long way before that ever happens. Okay, probably a couple decades. if not more, to take advantage. But that does not mean that you should be waiting does not mean that you should not get in now. So commit now, jump in now. Avail yourself before the easy money is made. And don't forget, always trade with the odds in your favor. Take care, talk to you soon. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

Allen: All right, everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Option Genius Podcast today I have with me, Matthew D'Ambrosi .He's one of our passive traders. And he's gonna be telling us how he got started and how he's doing pretty well right now. How are you doing, Matthew? Matt: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on. Allen: Cool. Cool. So how'd you get started with Option Genius?  Matt: Well, I have to actually go back, it's been quite a journey, I have to say, you know, it's more like a 15 year journey for me. Allen: Wow. You know, I was given a book by my sister at age 30. And I was a young guy, and I was just more not interested in reading books just kind of floating through life, didn't really have much direction. And the book was called "Automatic Millionaire" by David Bach. Allen: Okay. Matt: In that book, I wasn't really interested in reading it, but she handed it to me. So I said, at least go through it. And I started thumbing through and I came upon a compound interest chart. And it showed, you know, you're 19 years old, and you put $2,000 into an IRA, or Roth IRA, and you did that, and you continue to do that, it would be well over a million by the time you're 65. So I was caught immediately by that. And that's kind of where my journey began. So I took that information, and started reading more books. And I came across Dave Ramsey. He's kind of like a financial soldier, if you will, you know, to get out of debt. Yeah, kind of get your stuff together. And I started, I always thought about making money and you know, retiring early, it was always a thought of mine, it was a gold mine, it was definitely what I wanted to do. And I always felt like 65 is when I would do it just like everybody else. And I continue to read more, I read numerous articles and books. And about two years ago, I went to a workshop, and I was learning how to invest. And they introduced me to options and selling options. And I was told that everyone else was told, you know, it was risky. Don't touch it. There's a whole another world to me. Allen: Have you done any stocks or options before that? Matt: No, absolutely not. Allen: No stocks either? Matt: Not really, you know, I was more into mutual funds, I had gave my money to an advisor, I just believe that people had your best interest. And they're great advisors out there. I'm not saying they're not. But it really started me to take a hard look about how money is handled. And you're much better off if you take the plunge and believe in yourself and start looking into deeper and see that they can really work out for you if you're willing to take or have the interest really to go and look at that. So I started paper trading. And then I was wondering who else does this so I started searching. And then I came across your name, and I have to hand it to your master marketer. I've never had anyone hit my inbox like you. So I started listening to all your podcast, taking little by little, you know, all the information that you give out there and started little by little paper trading. And then I started making money slowly, you know, doing one contract, then adding two. And then now I'm pretty much on my goal to replace my income. And that's my ultimate goal so... Allen: Awesome. Matt: Just a regular guy, you know, I just kind of happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here today. Because I want to get the message out that you know, you're teaching just normal people like me, who have no experience at this. And it's really a wonderful thing if you're willing to get a hold of your fears and take a stab at it. Allen: Right. So you started about two years ago, you said? Matt: Yeah, about two years ago yeah. Allen: Oh two years ago. Okay. And you're still working? Matt: I am, yep. Allen: Okay, what do you do during the day? Matt: So I'm a forklift driver and it's tough work. It's very laborsome. And trading has allowed me to look at money in a different way. I just don't look at money as scarce as it was. So it's a whole different mindset. Allen: Yeah. So how do you find time during the day to trade? Matt: Generally I don't go until about 2:30 in the afternoon, and I go on to 2:30 at work so I spend the mornings pretty much studying and paper trading and learning and then even after work at 11 o'clock, sometimes I'll be up till 1am or so learning as well and paper trading and trying to think about things and whatnot so.. Allen: So you're all in? Matt: All in, absolutely. They say burn the ships and I burnt them. Allen: So what was your first trade? Matt: First trade I did was credit spread. I did far away from the money for about just one contract and I made like 18 bucks. It wasn't much but you know, you're, you talked about the options continuum. That was in that stage where I was very nervous and you know, you have these feelings and you feel like you're gonna lose all your money. And that's not true, if you study and really take what you have to teach, and I took it very slow and got into it. So after that, after you do, there's something about to do first live trade, it kind of clicks with you like, okay, that wasn't so bad, you know, not the think of the worst that can happen. So, yeah, I did it. And it's been a, you know, I'm gaining confidence each and every week. And, yeah, we just continue to evolve on that continuum. Allen: Cool. So if I can recap. So basically, you want to get into investing because you didn't like where it was going. And you didn't want to wait around till 65 to, you know, have a nest egg and retire and have somebody else in charge of your money. So you started looking at it for yourself, and you've been putting in time you've been studying, researching trading, paper trading? What else is it that you want to achieve, besides just the money aspect? Like what what is it about the trading that is, you know, speaks to you on a deeper level? Matt: Yeah, I think the main part and it's different for everybody, for me, it's actually you know, as you get older, you realize you don't know how much time you have on this earth. And, you know, you start looking at things like, Hey, you know, the time is right now. And if I can find a way to free up some time, I'm going to seize it, because I never want to look back and say, "Hey, you know, I got to 65" I'd be glad if I do. But to spend time with friends and family, I got, you know, parents are almost in their 80s, I would love to just free up just a little bit of time and already am and I'm already you know, I already feel successful. And that, you know, I found something that I can do and free some time up and actually see them. Allen: Okay. So when you say you feel successful, what does that mean in numbers? Matt: Numbers to me, it's like just even $500. And it's different for everybody. There's no doubt. I mean, $500 extra dollars a month is successful to me. It gives you just a little bit of breathing room. I'm a simple person, I don't need a lot. I drive a 2200 accord. I mean, it looks like it's gonna fall off the road. I'm not a man to really, you know, I love great things. I would love to get in a nice, wonderful car, but it's not the main driver for me. The main drivers just to spend quality time family and friends. Absolutely. Allen: Nice. Nice. Okay. So would you mind sharing how large your trading account is now? Matt: Yeah, I started with in the brokerage account, I started about 2 Grand, and I'm already up to about 16 right now. Allen: Wow, in two years? Yeah, that's phenomenal. Matt: Yeah, I mean, I'm also adding to it too, but.. Allen: Okay. Matt: It's amazing to see the compound interest grow. And I haven't been really calculating it like dollar for dollar. But I'm just more really tuned into just being successful and working through the trades. And not really focusing so much on, you know, $1 amount just being, "Hey, let me get this tray. Let me monitor it. Let me look at it. Let me learn from it". If I have any problems, if I look at it as a learning experience, I have to continue to go I want to be in it forever. You know, I want to continue to I want to be that guy standing, you know, 10 years, 15 years from now and still doing this. Allen: Okay, so you don't want to be a forklift driver anymore? Matt: No, I say, you know, I'm sure there are a lot of people who listen to podcast saying I hate my job. I do not I actually enjoy driving a forklift. I just don't want to drive 40 hours a week. Allen: Okay. Okay, so what type of strategies are you using? Matt: So right now I'm doing a lot of bull put spreads, I've ventured into bear call spreads. I'm also doing covered calls. I haven't done any naked puts yet. So I'm really kind of looking at some companies and, uh, you know, I want to know more about the companies and look at stable companies like you teach us and start doing options off of them. So, it's an ongoing process and what amazes me that you don't need to do a lot of different strategies to be successful. Allen: Right, right. Right. Okay. What's your if you had to only pick one, which was your favorite? Matt: At the moment, it'd be a bull put spread, but I have a feeling that's gonna change. Allen: Yeah depending on the market. Matt: Also venturing into into oil, like you're teaching in your program. Allen: Cool. Yeah. Welcome to that program. Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely the next level of stuff. You know, it moves faster, and it's more leverage. So the numbers are bigger. Matt: Yeah. Allen: Cool. So have you tried anything else that didn't work? Matt: You know, I've done about 60 trades so far. I've lost one. And I got out early, it would have worked out. And it was my first time losing money, but I look at as a big lesson. You know, there's a lot of feelings. I listened to one of your podcasts where you talked about how you lost and the feelings that surround that. Right. I think you have to kind of reevaluate and find the lesson in it. And the lesson I found in that trade was that I was trading too heavy. I was a little bit. I was actually doing too many contracts. I was a little bit too uncomfortable. Matt: So that it was is a really good learning experience to say, Hey, you know, I'm not really comfortable risking that much money. Let me just pare it back a little bit. And think about what I want to do here, so.. okay, that, you know, the experience of actually getting out of a trade out of our live trade because you know, your bloods pumping, and you're like, Okay, you know, am I hitting the right buttons? And I get now it's a little different than paper? Of course. Allen: For sure. Yeah. But did you say you did 60 trades and you only lost on one? Matt: Yes so far... Allen: And these are all real money? Matt: Real Money, yes. Allen: Wow. And what's your strategy? How are you doing that? Would you find that trading plan? That's amazing. Matt: You know, it's a lot of listening. I've read so many books, listen to podcasts, listening to education, I kind of go, I'm a very conservative person. So I trade very conservatively. So about 90% out or more, I try to get at least 23 cents, 22 cents, and then just move my contracts up as I feel comfortable taking that risk. Allen: Okay so if I heard you correctly, you are trading at about a 10 delta spread? Matt: Yeah, usually. Allen: And then you're trying to make about 5% on each trade? Matt: Yeah, but between four and 5% Allen: Between four or five? And how long do you stay in the trade? Matt: You know, it's almost embarrassing, but that's the level of how you get better. I really have my you know, you talk about your AHA moments, and one of them was mine. I didn't know you could get out of the trade. So I was always thinking you had to be there until expiration, but that's not obviously not true. So that was a big one. For me, I have to honestly say that, you know, when you're learning this, you just don't think of you don't know everything. Right? And I was like, oh, my goodness, you can actually get out of these trades. So I learned to get out. So you know, that's a benefit in my world, once you know how to get out, it takes a little bit of fear out. Allen: So when do you get in? How many days to expiration to get in? Matt: Generally, I'm between 28 and 35 days or so. Allen: Okay, and what how many trades at one time do you have on? Matt: I really try to do only as many as I can comfortably watch. I try to do maybe one a week. So about four trades at most that are going on? Allen: Okay, so four trades at one time. Okay. And so how much would you say you're making on a monthly basis? dollar terms? Matt: Well across two accounts. So I trade in my brokerage account, I trade under my IRA, I rockler. Right? I'm averaging about 1000 a week now? Allen: 1000 a week. Okay. That's amazing. So within two years, you're up to 4000 a month. And you're saying your account value is roughly around 16? Matt: Roughly 16. And then, you know, in the Roth IRA, it's considerably higher, but that's not money I really want to put a heavy risk of short term trading, but I do trade there. Allen: Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. No, that's, that's crazy. And you're saying that you're almost to the point where it's getting close to where it's gonna replace your income or equal your income from..  Matt: Yeah I mean, I have no qualms about it. I my goal is to get make $5600 a month. And I know my number and but it's all about, you know, I guess one of the big reasons for me coming on is that you just have to trust the process. And you have to actually become in love with the process not be so result driven. I mean, it's important, you know, we all want results. But if you can find a love for the process, I think you're that much better?  Allen: For sure. Definitely. Yeah. Because, you know, like you said, You've been putting in the time you wake up and you work on it. And then after work, you know, tired long day, but you still sometimes you still get it and to look at it being you wouldn't do it if you weren't like happy and excited. It's really something to find something. I feel like this is a point in my life where I really found something I love to do. And I really do. I really love this. And, you know, it's, I just want other people that are just regular people like me, and people come all the time and say, you know, you can do this and do that. But I am I tell you to my core, I'm just a regular person, I drive a forklift. And if anyone can do it, you can do it. And thank God, there are people like you have to teach this stuff. Because I would have killed 20 years ago to have someone guide me through just hitting me across the head of the board and be like, Hey, you know, listen. But that's not how life works. Allen: Right, no, yeah. You know, when you're ready, the teacher appears kind of thing. You know? Matt: It really is true. Allen: Yeah. Yeah. So the biggest thing that surprised you when you were doing this stuff, besides that you could get out before expiration? Matt: Oh, yeah, that was a big one. I think it's coupled with what other people say but also with what I think is that you can trade on something that you don't own. I think that's a big thing for people. Because we're just conditioned to be like, you know, if I can trade something, I have to own it. And that was a big like, wow, for me, for trading. You know, also the covered call as well. Allen: Okay. And so what was your biggest challenge? Matt: The biggest challenge for me was overcoming your fears. I mean, it's, it's definitely a big fear. And I don't take it lightly. Because, you know, we all worry about losing our money, we worked so hard for it. I mean, I work 40 hours a week just to make the bills and do everything that we want to do, we want a better standard of living. And it's very scary  you know, you can think about losing all that money and a flash, and that's really fearful. And I think that's the biggest obstacle, but be to be able to papertrade it and learn from people like yourself that have gone through it. And like, they say, taken the arrows is all much better. I mean, you know, it's like, I talk to people, it's like, you're in a forest, and you don't know which way to go. And it's like, you have someone like yourself or someone else that has gone through this. And we're like, Hey, here's the path. You know, over here is a ditch over here, you know, there's a lion, go down this path, and you start to understand otherwise, you're just flailing around, and you'll be lost in that forest forever. So, you know, it's just one big journey, to be honest with you. Allen: Yep. Yep, yep. Yep. So is that the biggest thing that helped you overcome the fear? Got me a lot of people have that fear. You know, it's like, oh, my God, if I do this, what's going to happen? What if I press the wrong button? What if they take this away? What if you know, something, I do something wrong, my wife's gonna kill me, you know, how did you besides the paper trading was that the biggest thing that helped you overcome the fear? Matt: I think also, the actual structure of a credit spread, you know, knowing that when I have a set amount of money, that it's risk, I can only lose like, $500 in a trade or 480. That really helped me, okay, I was like, Okay, if you're uncomfortable, overall, losing $480 in this trade completely fails. And that's all I'm gonna lose. And I wrapped my head around that, then I can get past that barrier. And I can trade more and learn how to trade. I think initially, you just have in your mind that you're gonna lose all your money, which is not true. If you, of course, you I mean, you have to study and you have to pay attention. None of this is easy or simple. But you got to put in the time, I'm not saying you don't. But if you really want to, and you're, you have conviction, and you have desire, there's no reason why you can't do this stuff. Allen: So what do you think the future holds for you now? Matt: Well, I hope all good things. I mean, I go on with the, I hope I go in with the attitude. I'm really happy and excited to be part of the the oil, that's a whole another, the oil blank check trading program. It's a whole another world for me. And, you know, I kind of feel like, it's traded like options, but it's very different. And then I have to get in there. And it's like, you know, I'm back at the beginning a little bit. So I got to get him up to speed and learn that it's a whole another world. So you go through those feelings again, in a different way. So I'm kind of in the beginning, but I'm very hopeful for the future. And I just want to continue to be consistent and profitable. And that's all you can ask for. Allen: Yep. Yep. So would you recommend Option Genius to other people? Matt: Absolutely. I mean, I sing your praises almost all the time. I one of the big reasons is that how accessible you are. And you know, whenever I had a question, you guys are on top of it. I mean, I couldn't ask for any quicker response. And if you have a problem, you feel like someone's right beside you. And I really appreciate that. So yeah, I've absolutely, I would tell anyone to go to you and learn from you learn from you on the program.  Allen: Yeah, we try. I mean, we're not perfect. And we don't work weekends. But some people, some people are like, Oh, I bought this thing on Saturday. Why haven't I got it yet? I have questions. I'm like, Oh, we don't work weekends, you know. See that's part of the job here. You know, I talked about it on the podcast, and the books and everything. It's like freedom. You know, that's the ultimate, the ultimate goal is freedom. And however you define it, yeah, the time to do what you want the money to do what you want, and you just, you know, if you want to go here, do this, or whatever, buy whatever you want. Like, I'm so happy and excited that you're feeling a taste of that, you know, it's like, "Okay, if I'm going to work, I'm going to make X dollars, but I can always be laid off". I can always get hurt. I can always, you know, get sick. I mean, so many people right now are getting sick and they can't work and they're all scared because they don't know what they're going to do. And you know, the fact that you're you found something that you can stay at home, press a few buttons, and you understand it and you're like, Okay, intellectually, I can make this work. And you put in the time in the effort. I've seen that. So kudos to you for that. Because I've seen a lot of people. They're like, Oh, yeah, no, no, this is supposed to be magic. I'm supposed to hit the Escape key and I'm supposed to get money coming out of my computer. Well, it doesn't work that way. You know, you have to put in time, effort, thought process. You have to do it over and over and over again, which you've done for the last two years. You've been putting your dues in I mean, obviously you're not done yet. Right? You still got a long way to go. Matt: Oh, yeah, absolutely my goal is never to be complacent. You know, never think I've no at all, because I do not. There's people out there that are very smart, intelligent, people that are learning, I always look at life, you can learn somebody, something from everyone, just like all the people, all the books that I've read, if you can get one good thing out of them, you can learn something from them, you're all the better. You know, I just learned to not look at one thing as the way there could be multiple ways. But you know, you have to take the good and almost make it your own as well. You know it, but it's on you. And you as you get older, you realize that it is on you to make this decisions. I don't want to bury my head in the sand and just hope you know, I wake up at 65 and I'm retired. So it's a process. And luckily, I fell in love with it. Allen: That's great. That's great. So let's say you get your goal and you're making 5600 a month from your trading. You still going to work? Matt: I think initially I mean, you know, it's a wonderful question to answer. I think initially, I would go with part time, because I like I do like my job. I do enjoy driving a forklift. But um, it would allow me to do some other things that I would want to do in life. I mean, I like gardening, I like painting, maybe learn Spanish, I always want to learn Spanish, you know, and I could put my efforts towards that. It's just, it opens a whole another world for you. And I mean, it really does. And it gives you a chance to maybe go into some things that you never dreamed that you would be. For instance, after this, I'm going on a boat, I would never dream that I would learn, I always didn't want to drive a boat, I was afraid to drive a boat, I was afraid I was gonna to crash into a dock. But I'm a member of a book club now. And I'm going to go out my wife after this podcast and get on a boat. And I'm learning how to drive and docket and it's like I believe trading is broad and open that world for me. Because I'm no longer fearful making mistakes. And I'm going to learn from them. And, you know, if I crashed into into a dock, so be it. I'll learn from it. And I'll get better. So that's the way I approach life now. And I think trading is a big part of that. Allen: Oh, that's wonderful. So the fact that you've been you've had some success in the trading has given you confidence in other areas of your life. Matt: Absolutely. That's something I can ever believe. Yeah, absolutely. Allen: That's so beautiful. Okay, so let's say one of your fellow employees at Costco, you're at Costco, right? Yes, yeah. So if one of your fellow employees at Costco comes up to you and says, Matt, man, I got to do something. You know, you told me you talked about trading a little bit, how do I how do I get started? What do I do? How do I make sure that I don't lose money? Matt: Well, go to Option Genius. But I would more so I would tell them that, you know, it's a process and you have to put in the work. There's no shortcuts. And you know, people say that all the time. And you have to really believe that in your heart, and you have to put in the work. And thank goodness paper trades out there. And you can make mistakes and learn from them. And just keep trying. And then when you're ready, do it. Somy advice is to absolutely take it slow. You know, everyone's different. You could paper trade three months, six months, but don't be hanging up for a year paper trading. I mean, you want to get out there and try. So but do it with a little bit of money that you're finally losing, and then just go on from there and reevaluate your process. So that's the advice that I would give them. And, of course, I want to help everyone out there, you know, because I have co workers that are in the same, I know the grind they go through each day. They're hard working people, they're looking for the same thing I am that they're trying to look, you know, to better their life or help people that are left to right of them, and get through and improve it. And, you know, this is out there for them. So I've just tell it, take it slow, be patient. I mean, it's very difficult to be patient, especially this day and age. But if you can harness that patience, you can achieve what you want to achieve. Allen: Well said, Well said. Yeah, I mean, you know, the cool thing is that we've I guess since you started, I think you've been sending us emails every once in a while. Matt: Probably a little crazy. Yes. Allen: Yeah no it's okay. It's not crazy? I mean, you know, I bombard people with email, we generally like to sometimes people, some people get three emails a day from us, it's like crazy. We need to work on that. Matt: I'm one of those people. And I'm like, wow, I'm like, man this is something else. Allen: There's too much going on. Yeah. So we need to work on a little bit there. But you know, so it's been fun to watch your progress over the past. You know, it's like, I try to if there's a trading email or whatnot, I try to read those. And if I don't answer them, at least I try to read and see what's going on. And I've seen your emails come through, and it's like, you know, this guy, he's getting it, you know? And whenever you ask a question, it's like, there there are some people that they're nice about it. And then there are some people who are like they expect the moon and the stars and everything in an email like, "Hey, I'm on your list. I want you to tell me every one of your secrets". Like how am I supposed to do that in an email? Matt: Yeah that's impossible. Allen: We share that for you. Like we could have a course about that. It would be like a 20 million-hour course. I could share everything and bring an email. I'm not writing all that stuff. But the fact that you took it slow and methodical and whenever you, you did the work. And then when you had a question, it was specific to that particular thing. So you could tell when I'm reading, I can tell, okay, this guy is actually trying to learn, he's actually trying to trade. And this has given me a question based on his actual experience. So I mean, that's in, you know, for those of you who are listening and be like, Oh, well, I asked a question, I didn't get an answer. Or, you know, he didn't give me a complete answer or whatever. It also depends on, you know, how you approach the question how the question is asked, and if it's gonna make sense or not, because we do get inundated with trading questions, and how do I do this? And how do I do that? And without proper background, we can't even give individual moves. Legally, we can't give individual advice. But even trading questions, it's like, okay, if I don't have the proper background into what you were thinking, when you were looking at a trade, then I can't give you a, you know, what I would do even because if I'm looking at a chart, and I think it's going to go down, and you think it's gonna go up, whatever I tell you, it's gonna be the opposite. And you'll be like, that doesn't make any sense. So I love the way that you have approached this. And you've been, you know, slowly, methodically, you pick something you realized from the beginning, you knew what you want it, you knew your why you understand, you know, compound interest, you understand how that works? And it's not going to happen overnight. How long do you think it took you until you started becoming like, consistently profitable? Matt: I would say about three or four months where I felt consistent, you know, first, you know, you could say, Oh, you know, it could be you just not, you're not sure until you really feel like, okay, I can repeat this month after month. And third kind of understanding, you know, not only the positives of a trade, but also the negatives, and you start kind of wrapping your head around it and start feeling comfortable, but not complacent, then you start, you feel like you're on the right road, so that that feelings and the results probably about three to four months for me specifically where I felt confident about the trade. Allen: Okay, and you trade the same stocks over and over again? Or do you choose different ones every time? Matt: I'm looking, you know, basically the same. You know, I tell the story, way back, I bought Airbnb, you know, an IPO, which stands for is probably overpriced. And I consider it as a mistake. But my wife and I did a covered call together, and we literally push the button together. And we're like, we made like, 500 some dollars off of that. And I was just like, we were just like, baffled, like, wait a minute that actually work. Like we just got paid for that. And we're just like, How can that be? So, you know, I read books on covered calls and things like that. And, you know, there's there's downfalls of covered calls as well, the dark side as you speak. And it's important to, to learn all the different strategies. But the point is, you don't need to know a ton of strategies to be successful, I think it's important for the viewer to focus on one and get really comfortable before you move on to other things. And I feel that's kind of where I am with oil now I'm comfortable with a trade and now unwilling to go into another world, and kind of explain that or, you know, explore that, and I'll take that slow as well. And, you know, it just starts being well, and overall process and you bring it together. And it's all about learning and what a beautiful thing. Allen: Yep. Yep. Very beautiful. So, and there might be some skeptics listening to this. And they'll be like, Well, you know, the last two years, we've had a really good bull market. So are you prepared for choppy market volatile market? down market? bear market? How would you adjust to that situation? Allen: You know, I think it's, I look back, I'm actually reading your book right now, how to hedge, you know, all the hedging strategies, and what I always call my replay in my mind, what will I do if there's a big crash, and I don't think you can ever, you know, fully prepare yourself, but there's a lot of things that you can do. I think the most important part of that is knowing a valuable company, it's knowing what kind of strategy you're going to use, you can never do bull put spreads continually, because you're going to get hit at some point. Right. So again, learn how to do a bear call spread and do some different things to hedge your position. So it you know, that's education by itself, but there's definitely some big things. You know, you got to look at each thing of, you know, a comfort level and then continuing education. I definitely am. I'll continue to get better at that as well. Allen: Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, there's no way to tell which way the market is going, you know. Matt: Sure. Allen: I mean, we've been lucky that we've had a nice fed induced (inaudible) rally recently, the last couple years. But again, we don't know how long that's going to last and what's going to happen after that. But as somebody who has been doing this for, you know, a little bit longer than you have. Matt: Much longer. Allen: It's good to be able to, like you said, you know, understand the different strategies as well. And you said you've done you know, two or three of them and you've, you've practiced them over and over again. So that when things do change, that you can also see that coming and then you can change with it. So You know, I was talking to someone earlier today, and we were talking about and he was, he was asking about iron condors. And he's like, yeah, you know, I've tried honor condors didn't work at all. So how do you make them work? I said, Well, you know, every strategy doesn't work for every person. Some people might like one strategy, and they're really good at it. And somebody else, their brother might try it. And their brother might be horrible at it. You know, it's different risk tolerances, and different personalities will tell what strategy you should work on. And so.. Matt: Yeah, that's really fascinating. Like you said earlier, you know, we talked about how you can get the same trade as somebody, it just turns out different. And I think it's, it's fascinating in psychology, and it's also how, you know, you think of a trade and everyone's into individual to that trade. So it's pretty interesting. Allen: And you said, you had studied psychology, right? in school? Matt: Yeah, I have a degree in psychology from the University of Alabama. And, you know, I just, I never knew what I wanted to do in college. And it's interesting, I find myself using it. Now. I it's the psychology of the markets. And I think about how why people sell and why people buy and, you know, a lot of it's fear based, sometimes people that are very smart, do stupid things. You know, you just think that it's not that way, but it is very true. So it's, it's a whole, I never thought I'd be using psychology, but I do. I'm fascinated why people think the way they do. Allen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. It's very interesting. Yeah. I mean, I've been a big fan of psychology, just trying to understand myself, you know, and most of the time, like, you know, when we try to figure out, okay, hey, this stock went down today, what happened? A lot of times, we can't figure it out. I don't know, there's so many. There's so many background factors. But I think the study of psychology really helps in the big picture thinking, you know, you might not be able to figure out exactly why a stock moved up and down, depending on if there's some news about it. But the overall market like, hey, if this happens, then this is how people react. And then this is how they think. And then this is what happens in the stock market. So it's definitely a learning experience. And something that comes with years of experience, as you get used to it, say, Okay, I saw this happened. So I, I expected this to happen because of that. So it's really interesting. Allen: I really appreciate your time, Matthew, and just wanted to give you one more, you know, like hey, is there anything else that last words that you want to share with our audience?  Matt: Just I encourage people that are, you know, maybe thinking just like how I am, you know, they're out there working everyday life, and they just don't think that this is possible, and I just wanted to really encourage them to, you know, take a shot at it. And really, you know, if you're really interested in it, and put your 100% into it. And, you know, you could really surprise you on the other end, what life has to offer to you if you really get into it. And trading is a wonderful way to do that. So I'd really encourage people of all walks of life to try to better their situation, I think it's a great, great avenue to do so. Allen: Right. And you got started again, how? Just by reading a book? Matt: Yeah, I was just really looking at a compound interest chart. I was just, I just looked at it. And I was like, man, I could just kind of see the overall plan. I was like, I didn't know, you know, you know, everyone wants to be rich, and they want to have enough money. And it was a different feeling. At that time, I was young, and you know, mostly when you're young, or just want to get things and accumulate things and, you know, burn the world down. And that's not the case, as you get older, usually, you know, you, you find out what's really important. And to me, it's time with family and friends. And once I saw that chart, I could see the kind of overall kind of structure if you will, what I want to do. And then now as I got into it, I started filling in the blanks and seeing what way to get there. And trading is really kind of sped that process up. And I'm very excited about it. Allen: So do you see yourself like, okay, hey, you know, and this year, or this keeps up and you know, this age, I'm going to be a millionaire or 100 millionaire or something like that-  that doesn't appeal to you, right? Or does it sometimes? Matt: You know, like, I have a goal of turning you know, our money and making a million dollars. And that's, I wrote it down and seven years, I'd like to do that. If I don't get there, I'm not going to be upset about it. Like I said, you have to be happy about the process and excited about the process. And long as you're generally heading the right way. You can't help but be happy. I mean, if there's little setbacks, but if your general trajectory is moving forward, that's all you can ask for. And we're excited about that. So, you know, the number is less of a issue to me, as I get into it, you know, it's a great thing. And it's a great byproduct of what we're doing. But I think you just got to really look inward and be contentment and what really makes you happy in life, whatever it is you'd like to do. So, you know, money is just a tool to get there. And I I really feel that at this age, you know, it took me 20 years to figure that out. But yeah, it's exciting. Allen: Yeah, I totally agree with you and I'm excited for you, man. It's Just like, you know, you just get started now it's just, it's just up from here, you know, it's just the sky's the limit, and you know, a million dollars one day, you're gonna be like, Oh, that was nothing, you know? Let's go for 3, let's go for 5. Matt: You know, if not, I always say, Hey, you know, I can be happy I took a shot at So, you know, yeah, I left everything on the table. And that's what you have to do. And I couldn't be happier about that. Allen: But you've gotten it done. You know, it's not, it's not like, You got lucky, you've been doing it for consistently, you know, over and over and over again. And yeah, we've had a good market. And that helps. But you know, every market can be a good market, if you know what you're doing. So the fact that.. Matt: I'm very worried about that, because I started investing in 2009. Okay, so I've never seen a crash. And I know that and I'm aware that and I also look at, hey, what are my feelings going to be? And I try to read books about it, and listen to people and talk about their experiences, because I want to know what to do in that situation. So I could, that's a continuation thing for me. I mean, I know I have not been in a crash. That's all been up for me. And but I do know that I have to be wary of that. And I have to have a plan for that. And that's what I'm doing right now. So, you know, I don't want to get complacent and that I'm winning and winning and winning, because losses could be around the corner. And I just gotta know how to mitigate that process. Allen: So and see, I mean, just that comment right there. That's like, you know, this guy knows what he this guy's got a head good head on his shoulders. You know, he's not he's not overconfident. And he's not like, Oh, yeah, this is gonna happen for the rest of my life. I'm just gonna make money every month. No, I mean, I've been looking at it from all different angles, and you've been practicing and trading and different things. And you said, Oh, yeah, I've been doing put spreads. But I'm also doing call spreads, you know, because eventually, I'm going to need them. So it's like, yeah, there you go. That's it. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, you do it the right way. You're doing it really the right way. And you started small and you're, you know, slowly, slowly, you're increasing. But you're still sticking to, you know, something that's manageable. You're not Oh, like you said that one trade I had. I mean, oh my god, out of 60 trades you've only lost one that's like, incredible. I never heard anybody do that. That's like, Well, can I give you my money? I want to go sail around the world here. You just take it in, take care of it for me. Matt: You can't have it back on if I lose it? Yeah. Allen: No, I think you'll be okay because you're getting prepared for it. You know, you're not blindsided. It's like, yeah, this is part of it. I've seen it. You know, you've maybe you haven't seen it yourself. But you've heard of it. But you're not. What are you like, 45 years at? Matt: I'm 45 Allen: Yeah, so you've been alive when there has been crashes? And oh, yeah. and stuff, you know, the.com bubble, everybody still remembers that? No, tell you about that. And, and stuff like that. So it's not like it's something completely out of the blue for you. If somebody was like 15 years old, or 20 years old - they're like, Oh, yeah, you know, I've never seen America crash. It's never gonna crash. But yeah, it's there. And you are, you're rounding out what I, you know, like, it's like, it's not just, you focused on something you learned about it, you practiced it, and you're like, Okay, this is working. Now I need to add to it, I need to add another skill, I need to add another skill. And you're, and you're still adding, that's the coolest thing that you're still growing, you're still learning. And you're still humble enough about it, so that you're like, you know, hey, I'm still working. And I work hard, and I have a good job, and I like it. But I would like to have more. And then eventually, I'm gonna work part time. That's really cool. Yeah. Matt: I actually parallel investing with running a marathon. You know  running marathons is a very difficult process, and it takes a lot of work. And there's a lot of dips along the way, and at times you feel like quitting, and there's a point of elation, and you have an angle. And I kind of feel like that kind of parallels my trading style. So I know that there's going to be, you know, mile 15 is going to be horrible. And mile 18 could be even worse. And then you get the mile 24 and you're like, elated. It's almost at the end. And that's kind of how investing is, you know, you have great times and you have terrible times. And you have to, you know, when you're training, you're accounting for all these processes along the way. You know, what shoes do I wear? How do I do this? If it rains? How do I count for this? I don't feel good. How do I account for that? What did I eat? all that stuff is very similar to how trading is in trading really, you learn a lot about yourself, just like you do in marathon running. I mean, you learn about what you're really made of, and the risk that you take and who you are as a person. So I think there's a lot of parallels there. Allen: Wow, yeah, I've never run a marathon but it sounds horrible. Matt: Yeah, I mean, people are like, they're either they do it or they want it done. I've got the bug. I was crazy. I decided doing but um, I don't do them anymore. I maybe maybe have one or two. I mean, I will see but uh, you know, I want to keep my knees going into my 50s. Allen: Cool. All right, Matthew. I really appreciate it. This was great. I mean, it's wonderful to see you know, somebody go from knowing nothing to making you know, four grand a month trading part time. And, you know, it's like, Hey, I can do this. If you can do for you can eventually do more, and it'll replace your income and make all your dreams come true. So kudos to you for getting in the path, taking the risk, and trying it out, learning, spending the time, and I hope that people listen to this and they’re encouraged by it, they’re inspired by you, I mean  when I heard your story, I was like, "we gotta get Matthew on the show". You know, forklift driver to early retiree. Matt: Yeah I hope so. I appreciate you guys and I can't thank you enough, you and your team, that there's actually people out there that teach this stuff and actually care about people, because there's a lot of people that don't have it all and I really appreciate that. Allen: Thank you Matt: Yeah I'm sure your viewers appreciate it as well. Allen: Yeah thank you for hanging out with us. Matt: Alright, thank you. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

When was the last time you let yourself dream really big? I mean, really, really, really big. Most of us, I think, you know, "we live lives of quiet desperation". That quote, I don't remember who said it, but I believe that quote is so true. Most people are just going through the motions. So what would you do if gave you a billion dollars? A billion with a B? Right? If I just gave it to you, or whatever, you woke up one day, and boom, there's 1 billion in your bank account. You can do anything you want with it. What would you do? I mean, obviously, a lot of us, we probably start spending it, right. I mean, there's no strings attached. It's not stolen or anything, it's your money, do whatever you want no taxes, debate and anything like that? Start spending, what are you gonna do? Right? You gotta buy maybe the nicest house in the state. Maybe you buy eight or nine, fancy sports cars or luxury cars, whatever you can think of - Bentley's, Maseratis, whatever you can think of. Maybe you buy a jet or two. Maybe you get your own private island. That's pretty big. Maybe you get all the clothes you can ever think of, eat out every night, you know, some jewelry for the spouse or something, gifts for the kids, maybe a pony? I don't know. But a billion dollars is a huge amount. And for most people, they probably still have a lot left. I don't think any normal rational person can spend a billion dollars in their lifetime. It's pretty hard. So what would you do with it? And then the real question is, what would you do with the rest of it? Right? Eventually, you're going to realize that the money is not going to bring you happiness, all the stuff. Stuff is not important. When you die, it don't come with you. Right? The houses you can buy them, but they're not really yours. You know, stop paying property taxes and see who really owns all the houses. The cars are gonna eventually fall apart, like clothes are gonna get eaten by moths and go out of fashion. Ponies probably gonna die eventually anyway. So that stuff doesn't bring you happiness. Significance! That's what it's all about, right? Having some significance in your life, having a sense of purpose, being able to do something that makes you feel alive. What is that for you? Do you even know? How do you generate significance? How can you generate more significance? I mean, dream big, think big. Is there an injustice that you've experienced that needs to be solved? What did you want to do as a kid when you were little think back? Think back to when you were little? What did you want to do? Be? Accomplish? Before the world said no, that's unrealistic. Can't do that. What gives you the greatest excitement and wonder? There are some deep questions. For Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, you know two of the richest guys in the world. For both of them it's the same thing. They want to get humanity, mankind into space. I mean, think about it. These two guys, billionaires, top two richest people in the world. They're both, both of their passions, both of their purposes, is to get humanity into space. And so that's why they both have companies where they give billions of dollars to that have pushed the frontiers much farther than NASA has gone, faster, cheaper, more sustainable. So what's your purpose? Do you know what it is? Or are you like most people just going through the motions every day? living day to day. You know you get up you go to work, get stuff done, accomplish, some things here and there. Then you're "Oh, I'm tired" "Oh, it's five and six o'clock, all right" Time to head home. You get home you take care of the kids. You hang out with the spouse, you cook you clean, you do some stuff and then maybe you relax a little bit and hit the hay. There's all time to do it all again tomorrow. Is that what life looks like? Are you in a rut? For most people, they say that they cannot live their purpose because they don't have enough money. Or they don't have enough time. Or there's something stopping them. "Yeah, I can't do this because I have kids right now". "I can't travel the world because I have kids". "I can't go and become a teacher because I have all these bills to pay". "I can't do this, because of that" or "this person won't let me" or my spouse this, or my mother this or my mother in law that. Right? I think it's just sad. And I mean, I don't blame you, if that's you, because I'm in the same boat. You know, I have always wanted to travel. And I wanted to see the world but we have three little kids. So can't do it. Right? Because they have to go to school, they have to learn stuff, we can't just, it's dangerous out there in the world. And we could be traveling in some third world country and get taken hostage or get sick or get hurt. And then you know, all the medical stuff and it wouldn't work and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was at a seminar where I was talking to this guy. The the head of the seminar, he was like this personal trainer, not treating you physically, but like motivational speaker type guy. And I asked him that question. I said, "You know, I don't know what to do". I don't know. But I want some more purpose. What do I, how do I know what my purpose is? Because what I want to do as I want to travel, he goes, so why don't you travel? It's pretty simple questions. Like you want to know what you want. Why did you do it? Well, because he's like, is it money issue? I'm like no, not money issues. Health issues? No, not health issues. Okay, so what's wrong? Well, I have little kids. And he goes, Okay, so what school you want to give one school, you want them to learn stuff? But yeah, that's, that's, that's the problem. You know, we can't take them out of school for that long. They miss. If we go traveling for a year or two, or whatnot, you know, homeschooling for me - that's not gonna work, neither for my wife. It's not our thing. We go nuts. We'd kill the kids. So he said, yo, you know, he goes to me, he says that he lives on a ship. Yeah, this guy actually lives on a cruise ship. There's a one particular cruise ship, I think they call it "The world", I think you can look it up. There's one cruise ship, that you can actually buy a cabin. It's like a condo, or like a private condo, you buy the cabin. And you could live on the cruise ship. And it travels all around the world. And docks in different places. And the people who own like, all the people want the little cabin, they, you know, they get to vote and they get to decide where they want to go next, and where they want to stop and all that stuff. And if you want to get off well, then you know, you get off at a stop and then you fly wherever you're going. And then whenever you want to come back, you find out where the ship is going to be you fly to that city, and then you get on board. So that's pretty cool. He goes, Yeah, there's actually a couple families on the ship. And I'm like, really? He goes, yep, there's one family indeed. There is a family that have three little kids just like yours. I'm like, how do they do it? He goes, Well, they hired a nanny, and a teacher and an au pair, or whatever they're called, I don't know what they're called. He hired some tutor to come and teach the kids. So they're traveling around the world. They're seeing the sights, they're seeing everything, but they're still learning. In fact, they're learning better than probably what my kids are learning. Because when you go to school, most of the time is not spent learning. Most of the time that teachers spend, you know, telling other kids to be quiet or, or having them go to lunch or line up on joining the proper line or dealing with discipline issues or announcements and all that kind of stuff. So most of the time is not spent teaching anyway. So they have a tutor that teaches them for a few hours. And then imagine what they learn when they get off at all these different places around the world. Now that's truly an education. So that opened my eyes. It's like Wow, man, I'm just making excuses. I'm really making excuses. So it's not that my kids are stopping me from travel. It's my own limitation. It's my own small thinking. My purpose, if that's my purpose of traveling, it's not strong enough to get me to figure out how to overcome the situation overcome the difficulties that I am seeing, which are not really difficulties. So if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you've heard how we make money out of thin air by selling options that we don't even own to make obscene amounts of returns. All this without being brain surgeons or rocket science. You know, we're not scientists, without starting with millions of dollars and without spending years and years and years to learn this stuff. So I want you to be living your purpose, whatever it is. And at that time, I realized, Hey, you know what my purpose probably not is travel, it's not traveling, and I don't want it bad enough. So I'm still looking for my ultimate purpose. But I think for now, what my purpose is to spread the mission of passive trading. To spread the word to help other people, just have them experience what I'm experiencing. The joy, the freedom, and that's my purpose. For now. I don't know how long it's gonna last. Eventually, I'm gonna say, you know what, I got another itch, I want to go do something else. And I already have something in mind. And I guess I could share with you guys, I want to start something else called "Mortal Heal Thyself". Basically, it's I don't know what it is yet, I haven't really put any too much thought to paper yet. But it's, it's a way it's information to help people to heal their health issues, without taking massive pharmaceutical drugs, or having to see 100,000 different doctors and all that stuff to keep us healthy, naturally, before we get sick, and then even when we do get sick, to do everything that we can, without more, you know, or is taking as little pharmaceutical drugs as possible. So that's, that's kind of like what I want to do. So eventually, I'm going to maybe do that. But for now, I'm focused on this particular purpose, which is to help you achieve your purpose, to help you achieve three freedoms that we talk about - Time, Money, and Choice. Okay, so I want you to be living your purpose, whatever it is. Now, if you don't know what your purpose is, or even if you do, but something is stopping you, I know that you can figure it out. If you spend enough time on it, you can figure it out. And for some of you, you might need some help. And if that's the case, we can start with our high probability trading live event that's coming up soon. It's a two day event training coming up on September 17 and 18th, we'll be talking about this, we'll be having exercise on this and going through it. And I can walk you through the process that I've found that works really well for a lot of people. Or if you're listening to this, after that date, and it's already happened, you can email us and ask us how to get the recordings. Because if you want to find your purpose, if you want to find your why I think that is crucial to your success at trading, if you don't know your why. I don't know if you can be as successful in trading as you could be. So I think it's very, very important. That's why I talk about it at this event. So at this event, I'm going to be spending some time to help you determine your purpose, your why, and how that is so crucial to your success. And then we spend the rest of the two days on strategies to free you from any money constraints. Right? I don't want that to be an issue. "I can't afford it" - no, we're going to take care of that. Okay. We have many, many students that have been through this event in the past. And the first time we did it was not that long ago. But they but it was less than a year ago. The first one it was in January of 2021. No, yeah. 2021 sorry. It was it was earlier this year, January. We have many students who have attended this event. And they are already on their way to replacing their income with their gains from trading. So that was that thing that they decided they said, "Hey, I want to replace my income", boom, they're already on their way. And for others, they decided, hey, I want to add to my income, so they're on their way. Others decided, hey, I want to use this money to go give back and to help other people and so boom, they're on their way to do that. So some of these people had never traded options before. Others had traded but with very limited success. So we were able to help them overcome their limitations, their limiting beliefs and to figure out "Okay, what is it that stopping you?" What is it in in your in your thinking that's stopping you and then what is it in your trading? What are the skills that you need in trading wise to be able to turn the corner and start making more from your trades? And it worked. And that's one of the things I'm so super, super excited about. And that's why we're doing this event again, because we are to help so many people the first time and the second time. So I mean, I can't wait for it. We have so many success stories, so many people that are getting so excited and thankful after this happens, that I just can't. It's I mean, I'm really excited for it, I hope you'll be there. So join me live for two days. And while I don't actually have a billion dollars to give you I would, I would love to give it to you, if I had it, I don't. Helping you figure out your purpose and your why is actually worth a lot more than a billion dollars. And you think about it, even if I had it, I probably wouldn't give it to you. Because I would just spoil you. She is more much, much more fun and much more -- you feel so much better when you when you earn it for yourself. So let's do it together. Okay, go to OptionGenius.com/live for more details and to get your ticket. Spaces are limited even though this is a virtual event. We're still restricted on the number of people that can be there at any one time. So get your ticket today, OptionGenius.com/live, I hope to see you there we'll be there live for two days, you can interact with me ask questions, the whole nine yards we'll be going through a lot of material. It could be a life changing event for you. I don't know how many more we're going to be doing these. I want to continue them. But we have so many other projects that are really, really exciting that are coming down the pike that we might have to suspend this and work on those instead. So if you are looking to make a change, if you're looking to get out of the rut or start trading or stop making excuses, this would be a amazing way to do it. Okay, so get your ticket while tickets are still available. If you can't make it live, there are recordings that will be available so get those but really you want to be there live to get your questions answered to to feel the excitement and to really get motivated. And you know, there might be some questions that you have like hey, how can I do this and this and this or this is an issue that I've had in the past? I'm seeing this over and over again. What do I do to fix it? We can talk about those and we can discuss it and answer your questions live. So go to OptionGenius.com/live get your ticket today and trade with the odds in your favor. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

The question asked was: "Allen, what has been your greatest investment?" I was asked this by a coaching student recently. And I told him, I have to think about it and get back to him. Right? Well, I have thought about it, and I want to share the answer with you as well. So when it comes to success, at anything, really, there are three major components. Okay, number one is the skills, you got to know what to do. And then you got to get good at it. And that's doing the thing. Now, whether this is trading, whether this is parenting, weightlifting, anything, there are certain skills that you have to be able to perform. And the best way to learn those skills is by investing in education, something like a book or a course or something like that. Right? Now, these are basic skills. So when it comes to trading, you have to know some stuff, you have to know what is a stock? How do they go up? What do they go down? What is an option? What does it call? What does it put? How do they work that you go, and you get from a book you get from a course or a video right? Now, most of the questions out there that you want to know, you can get the answers for free. From about skills, you can get the answers for free at the library, in a book, and now maybe even on YouTube. Now YouTube's a little sketchy, because you don't know exactly who's making these videos and how good it is. And if the answer is actually going to legitimate how old this stuff is, I mean, I've I've tried some things on YouTube that were so old, they didn't work anymore, and you can't tell. But at the bookstore library, you know, the skills, the basic skills, hey, I want to learn fundamental analysis, I want to learn technical analysis. 90% of what you need to know, you can learn by a book or a course, that stuff is out there, there aren't that many things that are secret out there. And that's like a myth, right? Everything you hear about is like, oh, the secret method to do this the secret to do this, oh, they that person got so rich, because they have a secret. No, the skills are the same trading, the skills are the same, you got to know how to chart you got to know how to look at a stock, you got to know how to read the direction, you got to know how to put the trade on, you have to understand how the trade works. Right, you have to know probability of profit, you got to know when to get in when to get out, follow a trading plan, you got to have a trading plan. These are all skill-based things. Because the skills are just the basic level. That's like the entry level. Right? That's the first things you got to learn the skills. And some people they spend their whole life working on the skills. But that's why they never become successful because they don't do the other two components. Getting good at the skill does not guarantee success. There is a lot more to uncover. Just because you know, this skills or your book smart doesn't mean you're going to be successful. Knowledge is not power. I don't know why people say that. So I've heard that before. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is power. No, it's potential power, if you use the knowledge, right. But if you only have the knowledge, that's not good enough. If you know some of the skills, you could do some of the things that will get you some success, but will not get you the ultimate success that you're after. Okay. So I know a lot of people that are very smart. You know, they went to Harvard, MIT brainiacs, you know, everything. They're like a walking encyclopedia, but they struggling to pay the bills every month, because they are missing the other two components. So now, component number two is the habits, the discipline, the work ethic, these are all based on character, right, you have to have the right character. In order to succeed, you have to have discipline, you have to have work ethic, you have to be able to get up when you get knocked down. You can only get that one way. By doing the thing over and over and over. Like they say, practice makes perfect. But then again, there's no such thing as perfection. Because there is always another level, there's always a way to get better, there's always a way to achieve more to improve more. So you never get to the end goal. So there's no such thing as perfection. But you still got to practice and you have to have it internally. It has to come from inside. That's the only way to have the discipline and the work ethic you have to work on that everybody's not born that way. You know, you look at take a look at Arnold Schwarzenegger or the rock, Dwayne Johnson. They got bodies like crazy, I'm never gonna have a body like that, because I don't have the discipline to be in the gym for six hours a day. That's not me. That's not my thing. I don't have that discipline. Right. And so I might have the skills, I might know how to lift weights, I might know how to be a personal trainer or whatever, but I'm never going to look like them because I don't have that work ethic or that discipline or that desire. So whatever it is you need to master, if it's trading, you gotta follow the trading plan, you got to follow the rules, you got to have that discipline, you got to be able to take a loss, you have to be have your emotions in check. That's all character, that's the second component. Now these character traits like habits, you can have them by working on themselves on yourself, if you're lucky, you might be able to do it on your own. It's not easy, but it is doable. The easier way to do it, the shortcut is to do it with somebody else. So they can see where you are falling behind. Okay, so they can help you, they can motivate you, they can point out certain things that you might not be able to see, they can push you, when you fall down. When you don't want to go, they can give you that nudge, that encouragement. If you do what somebody else, the habits, the character traits are easier to develop. Does that make sense? Okay, now, number three, the third component, this might be the one that's the biggest one that people miss that that causes them from having the ultimate success that they're looking for. They might have the skills, they might even have the character traits and the habits. But if they don't have the belief, it's not going to work. And not just any belief, they have to have the right belief. And that is the toughest one yet. Because if you have the skills and the habits, but you're not achieving what you desire, then it is because your beliefs are not right. Now you already have beliefs, you already have some, they might not be the ones that you need to get to your goal. Now, for most people, the reason is that they believe something that is not accurate. They have what's called false beliefs. And the crazy thing is that we often don't know what we don't know. We think we know. But what we know, is the thing that is blocking us. Does that make sense? I'll say it again, we don't know what we don't know, we're blind to it. We're the guy in the forest, you can't see the forest from the trees. We think we know, we already have beliefs we think we know. But that thing that we think we know, the thing that we know, is the thing that is blocking us. That's the false belief. Now, like Einstein said, or maybe he didn't say, I don't know, he said, the quote is the thinking that got us into the problem won't get us out of the problem. And for the longest time, I couldn't understand what that meant. Right? But when you're in a problem, and then eventually you have an epiphany, you have an AHA moment you have like, "Oh, my God, why don't I think of that", that is a change in thinking to get you out of the problem to show you the solution. Okay, now, for example, in our credit spread mastery program, the hardest thing I have to do is to get students to break their false beliefs, the ones that they already have, when they come into the program. They understand the system, they understand how to find trades, place trades, all that that's easy for me to teach. But then they keep trying to use their own beliefs, and their things that they learned into the new system. They're taking their old skills, trying to apply it to a new system. And that's why they don't have the success that they could have. That's what causes them problems and losses. Now, the students that have the most success, are the ones that are new to options and just follow the program. They just take what I say at face value and just do it, you know, it's like run Forrest run, just do it be like Forrest, just do it. And the results for them have been crazy, amazing. I mean, so good that you won't even believe them if I share them. But they're not my results, right? They're the results of students. And there are so many of them that are getting similar results. Because they're doing the three steps. They're believing what I tell them, they get developing the skills, and they're developing the work ethic, the character. Now, on the other hand, we have the students that have been trading for a while. They keep trying to do it the way that they've learned to do it, and they keep struggling. Right now they still make money, they still end up doing well. But they're not doing as well as they could. And that's where they get frustrated. They see it in front of their eyes. They're like, Man, this is working. This is working. It's working for other people. Why isn't it working for me? If you ever had that problem, if you ever felt that way that oh, my God, this thing works. I see it working for others. It's not working for me. It's because there's something wrong with the belief level, or maybe even the character level. But most likely, it's the belief level. If your why is strong enough, if you really, really, really want to make it work. That's your character level. But if the beliefs are wrong, it's still not going to work. Okay, now this is crazy to me, because I do the same thing. I'm preaching to you about it. But I do exactly the same thing. So don't feel bad. But if you want to succeed at something, this is a shortcut, I'll give you the secret, the best way to do it is to have someone who has done it before you who has the success you want, and then have them point out the beliefs that you have that are holding you back, basically, get some coaching. Hire a coach, and that person will tell you why you're being held back if they're any good. Okay, now, I heard a podcast today where a guy, the speaker, the guy doing the podcast, he said he hired himself a coach for $30,000 an hour. 30,000 an hour, and he had to buy for hours. He had to pay $120,000 for a coach. Now that's freaking crazy, right? That's amazing. But for him, it was worth it. Because this guy's already making according to him, he already makes a couple 100 million dollars a year. So for him $100,000, $120,000 no big deal. But, I mean, it is still a big deal. I bet you still a big deal. But he's looking at it in a different lens. He's not looking at like, Oh my God, that's 120. He's looking at it, like, what can I get out of this? What can I make from this? Like, what is my return going to be? What is my value going to be? Okay, the answers that he got, were worth a lot more to him than the $30,000 that he had to pay for one hour. He was able to go to the source to somebody who had already done what he wants to do, and got the answer from the horse's mouth. He was able to say, Hey, this is my problem. What do I do? This is my thinking. I'm thinking about doing this. Should I do this? Yes, no, why not? Oh, you did it before? Oh, it didn't work for you. Okay, that makes sense. What about this? Oh, I see that now. Oh, my God, I didn't think about that. I didn't know anything about that. What does that mean? etc. So not only does he know what to do, but he knows what not to do? What not to waste his time on what not to waste his money on. Right? He's saving his time, which is a lot more valuable to somebody who's making 200 million a year, than the $120,000 that it cost him. Now it's the same with most traders online, I see it every day. They said that they would never pay to learn to trade. Oh, yeah, I'm not going to pay to learn trade, I'm going to figure it out myself. I'm going to do it myself. That's great. If you want it to take forever, do you really have forever to learn? I mean, think about it. Let's just say it takes you five years to learn how to trade to be successful to be profitable consistently. Okay, that is five years of profits that you never get back. So either you have two options, right? Let's do you can do it yourself is gonna take you five years. And in that five years, you get some winners, you get some losers, you lose some more, you get some you kind of break even. But after five years, you know what you're doing. Awesome. trader number two, trader B goes and hires a coach takes a mentoring program. And he learns it right away. Like let's say he takes credit spread mastery, and he learns how to trade in three months, and it becomes profitable. And so after three months, he's profitable for five years. Whereas trader A is still breaking even after five years, because he's learning it on his own. He didn't want to spend the money for the coaching. Okay, that's five years of profits that trader a could have had, but he'll never have, he doesn't get it back. The years of profit could compound into millions of dollars. That's what these guys don't think about. They don't think about long term they don't think about they're just thinking about the short term like, Oh, I have to pay for coaching right now. No, it's not worth it. But they don't look at the long term compounding image 10, 20, 30 years down the road. Right? Now, I'll give you an example. I put aside $20,000 for each of my kids, in their IRAs for them, three kids 20 grand each. Okay, now, when my oldest turns 65 when he retires, and he can take money out of his account, even if I don't add another penny. And if I only leave it in an SPX index fund, like an index eval, put in the index fund, it matches the stock market. I don't touch it. We don't add anything. We don't do anything. It's just that 20,000 just growing, growing, compounding, compounding, when he's 65. He's gonna have over a million dollars in that account. That's pretty good, right? I mean, the kid is 10 years old. He's gonna have million dollars. He's a millionaire. That's amazing. You know, hopefully he'll thank me. Might not be around but hopefully he'll thank me Like, oh, yeah, my Dad was a great guy. I don't know, hopefully, right? Fingers crossed. Now my youngest, my youngest child, I also put 20,000 aside for her, when she hit 65. Same thing, no extra money, no touching it just index fund, her account, her 20 grand will turn into over 2.5 million. What? One kid gets 1,000,000, 1 kid gets 2.5 million? What's the difference? Well, they're six years apart in age. So the oldest, he's got six years less of compounding. And that means over a million dollars difference in account size. Six years of compounding means over a million dollars. So yeah, when you try to learn something on your own, you're gonna pay for it, you're paying, you're paying a lot more than it costs to hire a professional to teach it to you. Let that sink in. You're still gonna pay, you pay this way you pay that way. One is harder, takes longer, and you got to pay more. The other one, you get to learn the right way quicker. And you have somebody on your side, and you profit sooner. So what was my greatest investment? Investing in coaching. It had to be the greatest return on investment of anything I've ever done. Okay, I mean, I read a lot. I've read lots and lots of books. I've been to seminars, I've watched videos, but nothing can replace that in-person coaching, where somebody is talking to you looking at your situation, looking answering your questions, it made a complete world of difference. There was one program I joined three or four years ago, I think was like four or five, a four year five years ago, not sure how many, it was for $8,000. And I was like, and I don't know, if I want to spend $8,000 for this. There's a lot of money. It was for business marketing and business development stuff. And I paid for it. I was like, Alright, you know, I'm gonna plug it in, I need some help. I'm gonna do it. In the first, very first session, I went up to the main guy, and I asked him a question. I said, Look, man, I have this specific problem. It has to do with my technical stuff that we're using in my business, my systems, my software, what do I do? I have a problem. What do I do? Okay. And his answer, he looked at me, he goes, "Oh, that's simple", you know, in our business, and this is him talking goes in our business, we use this system, we set it up this way. This is the guy that sets everything up for us. So why don't you talk to him, I'll introduce you, you talk to him. And he'll set up the whole thing for you. Now, I'm getting a referral from somebody who's doing millions and millions of dollars in revenue, somebody that I look up to somebody that I paid to coaching to teach me because I want to be where he is. Right? And he's telling me to use this software that he uses, and to use this guy that he also uses to set everything up. Is that not the ultimate shortcut? I mean, that paid for the 8 Grand right there. Just that one introduction. Okay, that was it. One sentence, I followed his advice, I hired that guy. And guess what? That guy was an idiot. a total idiot. It was a waste of money. And time, he promised to do something he tooks part of the money. It took him a year and a half, and he still hadn't done it. But what it did was it got me on the right path. It got me that software, it got me thinking along those lines of how to improve my systems and my processes. And then eventually, I did find somebody to finish the job. I got to find somebody sooner if I wanted to, but I was still being cheap. And instead of hiring somebody else and firing that guy, I was like, No, no, he's gonna do it. He's going to do it. I kept pounding and pounding and kept pounding. Finally I gave up. If I'd given up a year earlier, I would have been done a year sooner. So I found somebody else to finish that job. And then that helped me reach my goals in that particular area for Option Genius. That one sentence, that that coach told me, not one cent is telling me what systems they use was worth the whole price of the program that $8,000 that I paid for them. But I still get value from that program in other areas. Even years later, I was still looking at some of my notes the other day from that program, and it's still giving me ideas. I'm still helping me out. Okay, so save yourself the frustration of learning things yourself. If I could start all over again, which I can't go back. It would be cool, right? If I could start all over again. That is the thing that I would change in my own life. I would have found somebody who was trading profitably the way I wanted to and paid them to be their apprentice or be in their coaching program, or whatever, and then followed exactly what they say. That's the biggest thing. Yeah, we can pay people. But when we don't follow them, we don't believe what they're telling us. We bring our own misconceptions and our false beliefs to a new system. It doesn't work. So you need those three things. You need the skill, need the character traits, and you need the right beliefs. All right, folks, that's it for this episode. Much love to you and trade with the odds in your favor. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... 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I have the pleasure of introducing you to Nelson Wennerlund. I call him Wonder Man. And you'll see why his results and his accomplishments have been amazing. So, without any further ado, let's just get into it. Nelson, how you doing? Nelson: I'm doing great today. Allen, how are you? Allen: I'm wonderful. I'm happy to talk to you. You're one of my one of my favorite people to talk to you. Nelson: Oh, good. Yeah. Allen: So I know a little bit about you know, you share a little bit about you know, who you are and what you do. But for our audience, once you once you tell us, you know, give us some background into who is Nelson, and how'd you get to where you are today. Nelson: Well live outside of Nashville, Tennessee, newly retired officially about five years ago. But I've been keeping busy with doing this, that and the other and volunteering. And in some of the stuff that I've wanted to do that I hadn't had time to do spent 25 years in the restaurant business, I spent 15 or 20 years, almost 20 years in the financial services business. And when I was 60, I decided that I'd had enough. And I retired with my wife's blessings. And so I've been kind of just volunteering and doing stuff since then. So trading, what I've been doing as far as trading back in the 90s. I started, I got a thing in the mail from a guy won't mention his name that was gonna teach me how to make tons of money. Trading commodity futures. Allen: Mr. Roberts. Yes. Mr. Roberts? Nelson: Yes Allen: Yeah, I got a quote. I had it. I don't know where it is now. Nelson: Yep. And so actually, I won and lost a few small fortunes for me at that time doing that for about I mean, I dabbled in anatomy for about 15 years. Wow. So, you know, I would I would lose, and then I would, you know, get all excited, you know, I'm gonna do this again. And, you know, I had a few small wins than that, you know, get over excited and make a dumb move and all that. Yeah, you know, same story, you know, so, and so I, but I did, you know, I, I did enjoy doing it, actually. And so, and then, but in 2010, I stopped and focused on the business I was part of and, and then I got something else in the mail about selling naked puts options. And I had been on the periphery of options, but it was just, you know, I didn't understand them. And it was confusing, seems like a sucker's bet to me, and all this kind of stuff. But I didn't do any research in it, that did research for this kind of bought this course and started doing just some naked puts, and actually did really well at it, you know, identifying stocks and this kind of thing, following this certain method and this than the other and so, I thought this option thing one so bad, after all, I can make some money at it. And I wanted to be able to do something in my retirement years that would bring extra income. Nelson: We had enough to live on wasn't really done it to, you know, have to put food on the table, but wanted to, you know, help grandkids with college and, you know, that type of thing and give to causes that we like and, and help people out and that type of thing. So we wanted to so that's really what I've got into it for. Discovered Option Genius, actually, by just wanting to get into option trading, and just went on the internet and started, you know, looking at, you know, I just counted all the guys who were getting on big airplanes, and, you know, like, they owned them, you know, and stuff like that. And so, you know, I figured that that was, I didn't want something that was get rich quick, I knew that that I'm smart enough to know, that didn't work, that doesn't work. You know, um, you know, the turtle won the race. And so I wanted something that was understandable, was consistent, was slow, was high probability, all that that's fits my personality. And when I ran into you Allen and just listen to some of your stuff, and all that, and, you know, that fit with my personality, I'm sure there's some other one good ones out there. But there was a lot of adjusting and doing this and doing that and day trading and, you know, all this kind of stuff. I don't want I didn't want to do that. I don't have time to do that. I have other stuff going on. So that's how I kind of, you know, options fits with my personality and doing the passive trading the are already owned about some pretty good positions about 10 stops. And so I just started doing covered calls. Allen: And this was in your retirement account? Nelson: Yeah, yeah. It's all in my retirement account. I don't have a separate account. Allen: Okay. So everything stays in there? Nelson: It stays in my retirement account. I've dabbled with another account. But, you know, most of my money's in my IRA. Plus, I don't have to pay any capital gains tax on anything in retirement funds. So that helps to, you know keep a little bit more. So that's, you know, with naked puts with an IRA, you know, it's there harder to do so, and yet about the full amount. So I don't, you know, don't do as many of those unless a stock is getting close that I own that I want to buy more of, and that really hadn't happened much lately. So.. Allen: Now, you said you were in the financial services? Or what do you do this? Nelson: I was a, I started out as a loan mortgage originator like you used to do. And then I was offered a partnership in a mortgage company. And I took that and then we got gobbled up by big fish and I retire. Allen: Oh, very nice. So is that how you were able to retire? I mean, cuz you did it at 60. So that's a little bit earlier than most people? Nelson: Yes. So I was able to.. my partnership was, I was rewarded handsomely. And, and we were a successful mortgage firm, local mortgage firm. And we did well. And so I was rewarded. And I'm very grateful for that. Allen: That's awesome. Cool. Yeah. So in your spare time right now. So you've been retired? For what? like five years? Six years? Nelson: Hmm hm Allen: Yeah. Okay. So basically, you're, we're looking for something to do. Yeah. And that's, that's how you stumbled upon and say, Oh, let me let me see what this is all about kind of thing. Nelson: Yeah I wanted to build residual income, not to actually, you know, to live on day to day, but to just supplement some traveling and stuff. Without I mean, you don't know what the future holds. We don't know if, you know, I don't want to be I mean, obviously, my wife and I don't want to be a burden to our children when we get older. And so we want some of that stuff built in, you know, that we would have enough money in our retirement funds that if we had, you know, to go into assisted living or something like that, and there would be money for it. And so, and that's really what we wanted to that, that that was my main aim just to build grow over time. So if that happened, we would be covered. And if it didn't happen, we would have something to leave our children. Allen: Sweet, nice. I mean, it's, it's rare to see people in that position. Most people are the other way around, you know, they're becoming part of the sandwich problem, I guess they call it you know, where the, the kids are taking care of their own kids and then taking care of their grandparents or their parents. And it's the they're getting squeezed on both ends. Nelson: Well, when I was in the mortgage business, just quickly, when I was doing loans for people, and I did over over 2000 loans at a 10 year period. It was shocking how many people had little or no, nothing in the retirement funds at even 40+, and they had a company that would match. And they just said I can't afford it. I couldn't afford it. But yet they had $800 truck payment. Allen: And they're buying a brand new house. Nelson: So I mean, it was like I you know, right there I'm thinking that's not gonna be me. Yeah, so, yeah, this is another thing that motivated me to, you know, find something that would build on my retirement cuz you don't know what's going to happen. And you know, that retirement fund can go quick. A six figure retirement fund can go quick. You may not think so. But it can. Allen: Yeah, no, I mean, one heart attack. So that's right there. Nelson: Right. Allen: So now you're, help me out here. You're you're over 65? You are 65? Nelson: I'm 65. Allen: You're 65. So technically, you can take out money from the IRA? Nelson: Yes. After 59 and a half, I could. Allen: Oh Okay. Okay. So basically all the money in the IRA that you're trading is growing, no income tax, no, nothing. And then you can take it out for like you said, your travel and your charity and all that stuff. Awesome. So you like the best of both worlds? Nelson: Yeah, well, that's my plan. Yeah. Allen: Cool. So did you try anything else before that you haven't mentioned yet before Option Genius? Nelson: I've dealt with in a couple other folks. I don't remember their names now. But they were they were very educational and everything. But you know, the more I got into it, the more confused I got quite honestly. And they started talking about like, and I'm sure if I studied it, it would be fine. But like butterflies and doing this and taking this off and this and that and the other, like I don't kind of want to do all that. Okay, I'm not a day trader and I don't want to, I don't want to be that involved. I want to be a passive trader. I want to get on my computer 15 minutes every day. Unless it's you know, trying to do a, you know, doing some research on a trade, I wanted to check my trade, take 10 minutes and go do what I want to do. And you're the one that offered that. Like, I mean, I could have done it with the others, but I would have probably lost all my money. Because, you know, again, they're, you know, listen, if you want to do all the adjusting and all that stuff, that's fine. But if I've got a great trade, I don't want to have to adjust. You know, I know you have to sometimes, obviously, but yeah, you know, and I had to last month, but still, you know, yeah, I don't, I wanted something simple, strategic, easy, high probability, you know, just prod along, if I can be, if I can, if I can go in the right direction, you know, which is up, just incrementally 3 to 5% a month? I'll make, I'm gonna make millions. You know, 5 percent a month. Allen: Right. A per month. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Nelson: And that's, you know, quite honestly, your course. That's easy. I mean, to me, it is so.. Allen: I mean, you've proven it, right. Yeah. I mean when I first got started, when I, you know, options and stuff, I really was like, "Oh, yeah, you know, the adjustments" because you do a trade. And then you can, if it goes bad, you can adjust it, oh, man, I'll never lose on any trade, I'll just be able to adjust my way out of it. And you learn really quickly that the adjustments, they you know, they add more risk to it, because you're adding more money most of the time. And then if it keeps going against you, then the loss just ends up really much bigger than you anticipated in the beginning. And then, you know, I guess the older I get, and really the the more assets I have, the less I want to be sitting in front of the computer, and the less I want to be worried about adjustments, and hey, what am I going to do tomorrow? Is everything okay? And being stressed out about all that time, so I totally hear where you're coming from. So I'm sure everybody's wondering. So what have your results been? Nelson: Well, in 2020, despite I will mention this number, despite losing $92,000 in about 45 minutes on that Tuesday after the COVID Allen: On the COVID crash? Yeah, the COVID bear market? Nelson: Yeah you know, they've taken that hit, I still was up 24% for the year. And so, and this year, so far, I'm up about 56% through the first six months. Allen: So 56% in six months, right? Nelson: So I'm sure I'm gonna break the 100%. thing, and I'm gonna get my award from you. Allen: I'm still working on that. We haven't come up with it yet. But yeah, definitely want to, I definitely want to get you one. So what strategies are you doing? How do you get the 56%? Nelson: Well, I just I do just almost exclusively, I do make some money on covered calls. I'm very conservative, because I like my stock. And I don't want to be I don't want to call the way unless I want it called away. And so that's only happened once this year. And so that's really, you know, otherwise, I'm just, you know, between that I'm just trying to lower my cost basis on my stocks, covered calls and in reinvesting the dividends. And so but I do just vertical spreads almost. And, you know, this summer, I'm doing iron condors because that's what your training told me to do. So I like to do, I'm learning more about them. And so mostly I just do vertical spreads. I'm also, I also do weekly and daily spreads on SPY. Allen: Okay Nelson: I use a high probability 90% Delta, or 10% Delta, I should say, I'm an optimist so I always say the 90%. 10% Delta and, you know, I've had an occasional loss, but that's really helped also with my return, but my bread and butter is still the monthly vertical bull that really a bull put spreads is what I've been doing this year. So far. I haven't seen a whole lot of really great call spreads, but mostly put spreads from a $5 put spreads with, you know, 82%, 83%, 84%. Making 10% just doing it over and over and over, you know, on the monthly and I haven't had a loss yet this year on that. Have on the daily and weekly. Allen: But okay, say that again, you've been doing these like these, we call them layups, right? So the layups, you've been.. Nelson: Yeah, yeah. Allen: Since January. Is that when you started with the layup? Nelson: No. Well, I've been doing. I mean, I had been in the course. Allen: Okay. January 2020. Allen: Okay, so you've been doing them. If you were in the past year in the passive trading formula program in the course. And so you were that in January 2020. And then from April 2021 that's when you join the layup mastery program to.. Nelson: Yeah the credit spread Allen: Right, the credit spread mastery and then since then you have not had a losing trade at all? Nelson: Not on my vertical spreads. I have on my daily head a couple of my daily and one of my week Allen: Right, I mean the but those are obviously those are riskier. Yeah. But that's amazing. How many of the monthly trades have you done? Nelson: Oh, gosh you asked me that. I'm probably I averaged about five a month, five to six months. I would say 50 to 55 spreads, I'm guessing. Um, That's not right. You know, 30? Probably around 30. Yeah. But in June, I only did one because I was doing those iron condors so. Allen: Okay, so you're not counting that. Okay. All right, but that that's phenomenal. That's amazing that you've had so much success with that one. Simple trade. Right? Yeah. That's cool. Kudos to you, man. That's amazing. so on. So you said in 2021, first six months, you're up about 53%? Or 56? I don't remember.. Nelson: 55% Allen: 55% Okay. And then in 2020, even after the big market crash, the bear market and you lost a ton there. You still were up? 24% for the year. Yeah. So before you got or you found option genius, what were your returns then that you remember? Nelson: Oh, gosh, they were really super hit or miss, I was basically breaking even. But I was only trying, I didn't have scaled up trading. You know, I mean, like I do, you know, I was really basically trading two or three contracts when, instead of, you know, 40 and 50, like I do now. So.. Allen: I mean, I wouldn't blame me if you if you don't have confidence in the system, right now, if it's hit or miss, or it's when a couple of times, and I lose, and then I win, and I lose, it's there's nothing there to give you the ability to say, you know what this works, I'm gonna start putting more money at risk. Nelson: Right. And that, this, that this strategy, I mean, it was a good knowledge base. But I didn't care for the I just didn't care for the strategy. It didn't fit my personality. So it was a little half flying, you know, doing set, you know, doing 30 deltas. And that's just too risky for me, and then adjusting out of that in, in the couple times, I paper traded all that and adjusted, I still lost money. Plus, I'm not a guy that wants to keep a losing trade a loser and try to eke out a few dollars. That's just my personality. I rather let it go and move on to another trade. So yeah, but yeah, that's just me. That's just my personality. Allen: Right yeah. Because if you come in, you know, 30, delta, even sometimes 25, you're gonna end up adjusting a lot more than if you come in much lower. It's rare that you won't have to adjust if you come in at that high. So, yeah, okay so.. Nelson: I don't need to actually, I don't need that action to make me feel like I'm a big time trader or anything. That makes sense. Allen: Yeah, I mean, some people they have that mean, and some people they actually get addicted to the, to the, you know, all the madness and watching the talking heads on TV all everyday looking for ideas and being in the chat rooms. And, oh, what do I do now? What about this? Oh, that's the craziest thing I see. You know, people, they put trades on. And then they go to like a Facebook group or something online forum, they're like this My trade, I'm in trouble. What do I do now? And then they just get advice from who knows who on the other end? You know, people that maybe have never put a trade on before they're giving them advice. Oh, you should do this. And you should do that. It's like, Ah, no, that's not how you do it. Nelson: That's what I think it's great that you Allen, one of the things is that if I have a question, I can shoot you an email and you'll answer back. So and and that's one thing that you don't get with other folks. I mean, you might get somebody answering you back, but you don't know who got out. Allen: Yeah, I mean, that's why we you know, we try to keep our system smaller so that we can actually give that one on one attention and so I can like right now I'm handling all the trade questions, you know, so anything that comes in. Now we do have somebody that we're training to help take off some of the load but for any member, any student they get a direct answer for me so that's something that I want to keep doing. Okay, so what was it that really turned the corner for you? Was it just that you found a strategy that work that fit your your your style or your your personality or was it something else that helped you go from hit or miss to wildly consistently profitable? Nelson: Well, I really, the way he does class, Utah in the in the course materials and stuff, were super understandable to me, and, and so you know, I'm a guy that, like I made some rules not and so when this happens do this I'm that's sort of how I'm wired. And you know, I don't I'm not a guy that's gonna look at a chart and sit there with angles and all this kind of stuff, I can get a lot of support and resistance and, you know, the simple stuff like that and moving averages, and, you know, but it's really, you gave me a sense, and a confidence that if we do this, most of times, you're going to come out as a winner, or you're going to be profitable, and you're not looking. You know, if you're looking for 10%, monthly, month after month after month, and you know, and even if you make less than that, that's okay, you know, and so I mean, you don't go into it, like, Oh, you know, you're gonna make 80%, you know, and, you know, some unrealistic expectation where people do they just end up quitting, that's not the goal, the goal is to, you know, figure out a strategy. Nelson: And one thing that you taught me is that, you know, you can look at a chart and stuff, and it's really incomplete. You know, it's incomplete, because you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow, perfect example, is this past Monday. I mean, you went from Friday to Monday, that just crashed red, now it's up, you know, you know, a whole, you know, for its back even so, you know, you just don't know. And if your eye tells you, they know, they're lying. So you know, so you don't know. So you have to take that information, and make in take what it says to you. Make an informed decision, and then you just have to put the trade on, I learned that from you. And that revolutionized how I did things because to me, I always was thinking, "Okay, is there something else I need to know?" "Is there another indicator that's gonna make me feel all warm and fuzzy?" and you know what, there's not one. And so I take a few things that I look at that I think it's going to continue in that direction, it may not. And then I'll make a high probability bet that it's going to, instead of a low probability bet that it's going to end so. And that's an edge and a strategy that totally fits me, I can do a trade that's got a 85% probability of winning, I mean, if you can go into a casino, you'll own the casino in about 4 hours. Allen: Yeah, they won't let you get away with that. They're either beat you up, or they put you in jail or something. Nelson: You go into the back room. Right, so that, like, you know, that I was I monitored in statistics in college. So that made a big sense to me, like, you know, I know that, that I'm going to lose some time, it's inevitable, but the probability that I have a greater probability of winning than losing, and so that's a strategy that's an edge that I think works for me, you know, once it's passive, it's passive. And so, you know, I think that that right, there is what made me turn the corner, and in your credit spread mastery course, showing that over a period of time, how well you did with your count, through ups and downs was a real inspiration for me also not tucked up for real inspiration for me to think, you know, a regular person could do this. You know, you don't have to have an MBA from Harvard, or some somewhere else to, or something to do all this. So a regular person who is serious and, and can do the same strategy that works over and over, can really build upon it, and, you know, reach their financial goals. Allen: Yep. And I mean, I'll tell you the truth, like, you know, you took the rules, you took the system, and you've done better than I have at it this past year. Seriously, you know, you're from what you said, you have a losing trade, I haven't had losing trades. So, you know, it's like, maybe I need just need to give you my money be like, Hey, can you manage this stuff for me? But um, so now that you have a decent size portfolio, so you have a bunch of stock that you've had for a long time, and you do and the spreads, and then you're also doing some dailies and weeklies, so how would you break it down in terms of percentage? How much do you do in each? Nelson: So I would say 50% of my IRA is in 10 Stocks. Allen: Okay Nelson: Maybe a little bit higher that but less than 60%. And then the rest, I just keep keeping, you know, I keep it in cash, but it's cash that I use to trade spreads and then I have backup, you know, reserves that I have for emergencies and stuff like that you know, reserve fun or rainy day fund or emergency fund whatever you want to call that so I have a really even have a savings account so I can because I can get this money out in a day, right? If I had to so I have a non that something I'm not going to touch that you know and then I have the rest of it. I really considered cash that I will invest in my spread trading. Allen: Okay, and how much do you do monthly versus weeklies or dailies? Nelson: Most of my I would say 60% of my that I do and or maybe 70% I do in monthlies Allen: Okay. Nelson: Okay, and then the rest I will do in three day-a-week, I guess the dailies, and then the rest of would be on the weeklies Allen: And do those take a lot of time, the weeklies and the dailies. Nelson: No I have a system that I sort of go by, but I, I use the same system for the monthlies as I do for the weeklies and the dailies. Really, it works. I mean, I use a higher Delta, Delta. And so and I don't make you know, 10% obviously, I make three to 4%. But, you know, that compounds over, you know, every week, so.. Allen: Definitely, yeah, yeah. So now, like once you turn that corner, right? And once you started doing well, once you started getting confidence and scaling, what was something that surprised you about the whole process? Nelson: The process and how we do it is scalable. That's what I was sort of surprised, like, you know, I never, I didn't think that, you know, I figured out what I had to, you know, maybe have a new strategy by now that maybe this didn't work over a longer period of time. And it's a surprise me that it actually, I mean, I know, yeah, and I know, you've said this, but, you know, nothing lasts forever. And I figured I'd have to be switching strategies or something. And I will, if there's, you know, a long program, or you know, long bear market, you know, I'll have to be doing more calls and puts, obviously, and all that type of thing. But the rules still apply, I would think it's pretty much it's the same strategies, just the other side is the opposite. So I'm thinking, you know, I'm always tweaking I'm, I mean, I'm always evaluating, I should say, you know, the strategy, you know, I mean, I'm always paper trading lower deltas to see, you know, how I would have done at the same trade, you know, and I mean, in this market, even at an 80 or 20, delta, you know, I'd probably still doing really well, but you know, I don't want to own up I would say on the weeklies, but and then on the monthlies I always paper trade them as if they were 30 Delta, just to see how would go and they haven't been that great on a 30 Delta. But they've been, so I'm thinking, why would I do that, like, I'm not going to put my account at risk over a few more $100 or so you know. So again, I'm I want something that's consistent, sustainable over the long haul. And I'm not looking to get rich quick. I'm not trying to, I mean, I'm doubling my account, I'm going to double my account, if you're just by doing regular stuff, not by going, I'm gonna double my account. And so I'm going to take, you know, unnecessary risk. And so I'm just not going to do that. I don't want to have to tell my wife like you had to tell your wife that "Oh, I'm sorry, honey, but our IRA is gone". Yeah. Like, I kind of want to have that conversation. Allen: So okay, so on that on that note, like, what are you doing in terms of like a hedge? Do you do anything to see like, okay, hey, if stuff goes bad, do you have I don't know, like a process or something that you Hey, this is what I'm gonna do? Or do you do you know, buy long puts or something to hedge you? Or? Nelson: No, I don't I haven't gotten into that. I'd love to learn more about that. I do, I plan every one of my trades completely before I get in it. Okay, I'm going to exit this no matter what, you know, for in the course and I do this at 25%. I'm getting out. You know, but I haven't explored the, I've heard you talk about it. I don't I haven't done the time, or taking the time to try to understand, you know what that's about? And I mean, I do understand it, but I just haven't done it. So but I'd love to learn more about that. But I haven't had the need to really learn a lot of it. Does that make sense? Allen: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, from what I know, you have already stuff built in, you know, with the stocks you like you said he even if they go down 20 25% you're still gonna hold them? Yeah, you still want them, you still want to get their cost basis down to zero. So you're gonna keep doing that no matter what happens with those, you're still gonna be cash flowing them, you know? Nelson: Exactly, exactly. Allen: With the spreads, you have a certain number, a certain percentage of your portfolio, it's not the whole thing. And you have your you know, when you're getting out, right? Nelson: It's non negotiable to, you know, I'd get out at that time. You know, I've gotten out before and had it turned around on me, but you know what, but I don't you know, I don't worry about that, almost. If I do everything I know I can do, and do it by the rules. And, you know, I know that I'm going to win more than I lose. And I'm, you know, preservation of capital is the rule for me. You know, I don't, I don't need to prove myself right or wrong. You know, when it's out. It's out. Yeah, get out. Allen: So it seems like you do have a plan in place. You know, it's not like you're just doing whatever And not even thinking about it. If stuff happens, if things go bad against you, then you you already know what you're going to do. I mean, that's pretty good enough, I don't, you can go further with it. And you can say, yeah, I'm gonna hedge it this way, or I'm gonna start doing pairs trading. And, you know, there's so many different ways that you could hedge yourself. You know.. Nelson: Maybe that's extra work I don't think I need to do right now. Allen: Yeah. And there's always a cost involved, right? So either time and money, or one of the other or so cool. I mean, as long as you're, as long as you're able to sleep at night, then and you know what to do, and you're safe, then that's cool. So, when you when you first got started, what was one of the biggest challenges that you had getting started? Nelson: Pulling the trigger to do a trade, I didn't have the confidence. I mean, listen, I know I did, I've done a lot of paper trading, and it's not the same. And so that $100,000 in that paper trading account is not real money, and, but my $100,000 in my account is in so and so I, you know, pulling the trigger really was, you know, was the hardest thing to do. But once I did it, and once I knew that I didn't have to know everything, before it started, and that there was a possibility to lose, and I was able to accept that loss, because I still believed in the strategy. You know, for an occasional loss, then that helped me move on in because, you know, and, and not be worried, you know, if I've done something dumb, in lost, that would have been bad, but if I follow the rules, and still lost, you know, and then that's just going to happen, and that's just life, and that happens in business. And that happens, you know, in life. And so, you know, in trading is no different, you know, my egos not tied to my trading. And so.. Allen: That's a big deal. That's a big, that's a big distinction. Nelson: I don't have to be right, you know, and, you know, because sometimes I'm not right, and that's just life. And so I don't, I had that problem, at first when I was trading commodities. And I just had to be right, you know, and, and I wasn't some of the time. So.. Allen: Well, that's the thing with the way I mean, if you're buying commodities, or buying stocks or buying options, you have to be right. Otherwise, you lose money, you don't have a choice, you know, but with our way, it's like, yeah, you know, I could be wrong on this direction, and I can still make it, you know, it'll still might work out, it doesn't have to be like you said, if you take incomplete information, make your best educated guess on it. And then you put the probabilities in your favor, and then most of the time is going to work out, even if you try to screw it up. Nelson: Well, that's a great edge that you taught me, not only myself, but you know, the other students that that that gave me some coffee, that gave me a lot of confidence to go forward and pull off trades. And that gives me confidence in scaling up my trading also, you know, we're, um, you know, you know, I'm up to you know, trading 50 contracts on each spread. So, and that's, you know, that's, that's a lot of money. There. But, you know, it's, it's just is what it is, you know, I mean, I've got the confidence that it that, you know, you put up high probability trading in your favor, you're gonna win most of the time. Yep, if you have to get out and it should, whatever it is. Otherwise, it probably turns into a low probability trade. Allen: Yep. And so, as you've been through the process, as you, you know, you started out learning and you implemented now you've, you've been doing well at it, what are some of the takeaways that you would want to share with our listeners? Nelson: Well, I tell you, my biggest takeaway would be that follow the rules. That's my biggest takeaway. I mean, you're the person that's done it. And so just bumping this takeaway is just follow the rules. If you just follow the rules, and do things that like you've taught us, then you're going to have a high probability trade, it's not coming, you're always going to win, but you're going to have a high probability trade, people get in trouble, and they do things that go against what we teach, passive trading, you know, betting on the next high flying stock, and, you know, and it goes up, and then goes down, and, you know, you're out of money, you know, that type of thing. And so, you know, that that would be one one of my takeaways. And, you know, the other thing is that this course is easily explained. And it's, it's easily understood. And, you know, for someone who's not even brilliant, you know, I was able to take it and fit it within my personality. And I guess the last thing that my biggest takeaway, too, is that, you know, you, Allen and your team, you care about your students, you know, and I've told you that before, that's no new news. But, you know, like, I know that if I send you if I have a question for you, you're gonna answer Or some, somebody on your team is going to answer me. And so to me, that's, you're committed, and your team's committed to my success. And as I said, it's not a tag word. I mean, that's, that's, I've felt that from day one. And so that inspires a lot of confidence in me, that I know that you care about not only my success, but you care about me and how well I'm doing too. And, and that's, that goes for all the students that I've seen you interact with. Allen: Yeah, I mean, we we try our best, right? I mean, we make mistakes, but we do try our best and we do care, everybody that comes in, it's like we want to do whatever we have to do to help you succeed. You know, one of the things we're looking at is we're having more customer service issues, you know, like, "Oh, I need my password", or what program should I get? or stuff like that little questions here and there. And we're thinking about bringing on somebody to take over that position. And we looked at different things to think, well, we could go, you know, overseas, we could hire somebody in the Philippines or something like that, and they get, you know, three $4 an hour and full time they're happy, you know, that's the going rate over there. They'd be more than happy at a job like that. But then there's still that disconnect, you know, and so we decided, no, you know, we're gonna keep it in house, we're gonna hire somebody here locally, that is working with us in the office. And I think I've made it a rule that everybody that works for us has to trade, like, they have to go through our programs, and they have to understand the trades, and they have to know what they are. And whether they do it for themselves or not, that's up to them. Right now. Everybody's doing it, and they're loving it. But if somebody says, Hey, you know, this is not my thing, but that's fine, but they're gonna have to know how to do it. Right? If they don't do it for themselves, that's different, which I don't know why they wouldn't, when they see, you know, they're all the results. But that's one of the things that we want to because even for employees, it's like, you know, I don't want you just working, I want you to better your life as well. So, if we're doing it for customers, and clients and students, then you should also be benefiting from that as well. So that's something we've implemented that I'm proud of. So Nelson: That's great. Allen: Yeah. Cool, cool. Cool. So what do you think the future holds for you now? Nelson: Well, I'm, I'm going to keep slowly, and hopefully, I'm going to still be successful, I'm going to keep, you know, scaling up my trading slowly, you know, I mean, I have a certain I have a certain amount that I want to have in my account, by the time I'm 75. And so I need to, you know, keep compounding it and, you know, keep trading and, you know, keep just scaling up, I guess, you know, I still believe in the, you know, I can't see the strategy changing unless some fundamental part of the market changes where you can't do options anymore, or something, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep adding on, I'm going to keep it, just add on some more, you know, the stocks that I own, I'm gonna keep adding shares, as they, you know, as they become, you know, available at a good price. And so, you know, that's my long term goals. The other is to really feed that, you know, that type of thing is to buy more stock, and, you know, and that type of thing, so that that's really what's, you know, I'm on a, hopefully, I'm still going to be involved with passive trading and doing that in the community. That's another great thing. I mean, we have an awesome community. And that's, you know, duty. I mean, yeah, but an easy Allen, for you to say, other courses over, I'll see you later. Good luck, you know, send me an email if you need help. But, you know, the zoom calls, and we've been continuing and have been great. And it's great to be in a community of people who are like minded, who want to progress and are serious about trading and who, you know, it's, it's good to bounce off ideas. I think we've got a pretty decent group. You know, and so, it's been great to meet, you know, get to know those guys over the last few months, guys and girls. Allen: Now, I want to thank you, too. I mean, you're, you know, you're a very beneficial source in that group. You know, I mean, especially like, you took Roberta under your wing, kind of, and you kind of coached her through it. And she, you know, she put on her I've been after her for months to put on a trade. And you just, you know, you kind of gave her a little pep talk. It didn't even take that long. Hey, she Next one. She came back and she's like, yep, I did it. I did it. You know, I made money. That was like you we have no clue how big an impact that can have on somebody. You know, we've been emailing back and forth so.. Nelson: Okay, all right. I'm trying to get her here. Second one now. Allen: Cool. So I mean, I'm so I'm a bit a little bit confused, though. But do you like your living expenses, how do you that comes from another source or you take it out of your trading account? Nelson: Well I'm on Social Security, I took it, okay, now I said, I'm waiting, I get a really decent amount of Social Security, my wife still working, but we don't have any debt. So and, and all my kids are out of the house and, you know, rolling on with their own lives. And so we don't, we don't have a ton of expenses, the only, like we're going to we're planning some trips next year that we're going to, you know, use some of this money for but nothing extravagant or anything, but, you know, it's taken some trips, some places, so that's what you know, stuff like that. And then we help in help our, I don't, this, I know this is gonna be popular, but instead of giving our grandkids gifts for Christmas, and all that stuff, we just put some money in there for 429 Program, which makes their parents happy. They're not super excited about but you know, what's one less present when you're getting 20? Anyway, so you know that that's one thing that the.. Allen: Oh, the 529? Nelson: Yeah 529, the college savings program. So we just put Birthday, Christmas and everything all in there once, of course, and then take a tax deduction for that. That's how you make your grandkids birthday party. So I've been saying, Yeah, I stay busy. So, you know, I do some consulting restaurant wise and stuff like that, that keeps me busy. But, you know, so I, that's kind of in the future, maybe that, you know, I look forward to, you know, doing more trading and, like, I love doing it, like, it's fun, you know, doing it. But I think if I was like doing a day trading thing that would just wear on me, you know, and, you know, I'm kind of like, you know, I check in at about 10:30 in the morning, and about 10 minutes, and I look at the PNL just like he taught me. And if it's doing well, I just click off of it. I don't watch any of the you know, news programs or any of that noise. Yeah, I used to get up in the morning and check the futures you know, and we all weird about it and everything like that. And, but I don't you know, anymore, so. So you are like the poster child for passive trading. I took you seriously, Allen. Allen: Yeah. And so far, it's been working, right? Nelson: Yeah. Well, that's how, you know, I know, guys that are my age and have portfolios, like mine have stocks, and they're checking them every hour. Like, that's gonna make a difference. Like, they're not gonna sell them anyway. So, you know, they're checking them all time and always talking about them all that stuff. And, you know, that just bores me. Allen: Yeah, yeah. But I think part of it is also fear, because they're not in control of it. Right? Exactly. They don't know how to like, once they retire, they don't know how to generate more. Nelson: That's right. Allen: Because they've been just okay, if I go to work, I'll make money. And so I'm safe. But when I stopped working, and that paycheck doesn't come in, now, it's all this money that's, you know, in this mystery place that somebody else is running, and they have no control over it. So they lose a big part of that certainty in their emotional makeup. And it can be very, very scary. Nelson: Well, I had my money when we had our IRA course, to somebody and, you know, in 2018, I got my statement, you know, when was a great year for the S&P and all that I got my statement in my account had gained 1.18%. Allen: Okay Nelson: I said, All right. You know what, I can do better than that. I'll be a blind squirrel finds a nut every once a while, I can invest it in myself, and make 2%. I know it. So that's what I rolled it all over to self-directed, I rate myself, and I'm glad you had to, but, you know, I got that that got killed me on fees and stuff. Allen: Yes Nelson: And wiped me out. Couldn't believe it? Yeah. Allen: Every time they do something, there's a fee for something. But so Okay, so would you would you recommend Option Genius to other people? Nelson: Absolutely. Of course, it was, you know, it's been worth every, I mean, it's been the return on investment. It's almost incalculable, you know, on what I've paid for, what I paid, and just the time that you've invested back into me, it's been unbelievable to me, you know, so, I mean, I really can't even put you know, a figure on it, because what it's meant to me, be part of community to be coached, you know, to be almost mental word in some ways, you know, because if I hadn't gotten involved in Option Genius, you know, I'm sure no one myself I'd be at some other deal doing something and pulling my hair out, you know, with gains, losses, gains losses, and never had the confidence So I would recommend it to anybody from the beginner to the seasoned veteran who's just so stressed out because of their strategy just stresses them out, you know, and I don't want to live stressed out, I, you know, I spent 25 years in the restaurant business, that was nothing but daily stress, you know, so I don't I don't want to do like, I don't want to live like that. And so it's great that I've been able to be profitable, but I wouldn't learn this system if it weren't for y'all, because no one else is teaches this system. I mean, I've looked, and, you know, it's, most of them are, like, get rich quick schemes from from what I see, you know, in in, and the ones that aren't, aren't teaching, high probability method and even a passive method. So I would say, for, you know, a low stress trading system, that over time bills and bills and bills, you know, through incremental gains, you're the best. Allen: I mean, I gotta tell you 50% a year, that's not that's not incremental. There, there are people on Wall Street, they'll give their right arm for one year of 50% gains, and we're just halfway through. So we, you know, Nelson: I don't know what the second half of the year is going to hold Allen but.. Allen: Well I mean, even if you take the second year off, it's 50. For a pretty good year, you got bragging rights, Nelson: I will have to correct myself, I think that I did have a small loss on a put no, a call spread. Because you told me I need to be more diversified. Yes. Allen: So that was my fault. Nelson: So I tried to be, but I did take like a $200 loss, I think on that trade. But I'm not blaming you really. Allen: You just did. Now, okay, so now you did tell me that you did want to you had a message you wanted to share. Nelson: I did want to share for any of y'all out there that or maybe you're, you know, retiring, or you have to retire, you know, you don't want to work till you're 70 or 75, or whatever, you really can start with this method. And build your nice retirement fund or nest egg or inheritance that you want to leave your children or grandchildren. Because this system, even we even with a small account with incremental growth over the years, will get up pretty quickly. Compound Interest is the eighth wonder of the world. And compounding time after time, after time doing safe trades. So if you have a small amount, and you are 60 Plus or even 55 Plus, and you haven't done a good job of funding your 401k or IRA, for whatever reason. Doing this will get you back in the game. You know, if you follow the rules, and you think clear headed and you invest clear headed, you don't try to all make it in one swoop. This right there, this right here will be the key to doing that. And with Allen and his team that's committed to your success, you know, you almost have to try to go wrong. Allen: Well said Yeah. And then you know, the other thing I was looking at it and you said compound interest. And you can go to any calculator on the on the web, and you can say, Okay, if I put this much money, and I make this return, and if it sits there for 20 years, you know, you compound it, it turns into like a huge number. But most of those calculators, they compounded on a yearly basis, right? You know, so it's at the end of the year, in a year. So 20 times, you know, 20 years later, you'll have a big number, but that's 20 periods of compounding. But like, you know, you told me, you're doing this, the monthly trades, right. And so every month, your account is now bigger. And so you have more money to compound it. So you're compounding it on a monthly basis. So that number is just totally off the wall exponential. So it's it's x, you know, like, whatever, whatever your return is gonna be like, you know, cubed or quadrupled or whatever. I don't know how to explain it, but it's a can be so huge. So definitely, I totally agree with you, you know, you got to you got to start, right, even if you can't just give up and part of the thing is the more I study this I've been looking into longevity studies, and the science and the advancements in technology and health. And they're some crazy, crazy stuff coming down the pipeline that is almost ready to be unleashed on the world, where it's not going to be unusual for somebody to say yeah, you know, I'm 140 years old and they'll still be in control of their faculties you know, I myself, I think my one of my goals is, Hey, I'm going to live to 120 you know, and from what I'm reading and seeing in the, in the research in the companies that are coming out and, and COVID really, really really, you know, supercharged this movement, because before I was reading somewhere where you know, you go to the hospital, and about 5% of the visits were virtual, then you got COVID. And it went, it jumped up to like 80 90% visits were virtual. And so now everybody's, you know, more familiar with the technology. And the government was the bureaucracy of getting new stuff approved for experiments and trials. That was one of the biggest holdups. So what used to take 10 years during COVID, took two months, because everybody saw that there's a real need for this stuff. So we're gonna see in the next handful, maybe five years, we're gonna see some really radical new treatments and technologies coming out that are really going to push longevity to the future. So even if you're behind now, in your retirement funds, you know, you get started and you're going to have time to catch up. Nelson: Well, if you have $100,000 account, and you average 5%, which is totally doable in this system, in 10 years, you'll have $50 million. Allen: But that's per month. Nelson: That's per month, per month, you gave me the confidence that I could do that. With this system. Allen: Where'd you get that number? Five? 100,000? How would you say 50 million? Nelson: $100,000 and 5% compounded monthly will be 50 million in 10 years. Allen: Really? Nelson: Yes. Allen: Wow Nelson: I put it on a compound calculator Allen: And you're doing that right now you're doing that? Well, you're you got a head start. Nelson: That's assuming a 5% every month, you just don't know. Allen: But yeah, no, I mean, you can't, you're gonna have losing months but still. Nelson: Just have a little bit of that. Allen: Yeah, you don't need to I don't think anybody needs.. Nelson: So it is possible. And again, II think if you break it down 3% either. So you start with a 10,000 and a 5% and you're gonna have $5 million. So you know, it's, that's that's a lot of I mean, I can live on that. Allen: And that's 10 years. Nelson: Yeah, that's 10 years. Allen: That passes by like this. I mean.. Nelson: Yeah so 2% would be compounded is a little bit over, it's almost 3 million. So you, you know, 2% you can do 2%. If you had some stocks you could do you know, you could almost get 2% on covered calls a month, you know, and just keep on every month. Keep on and keep on keep on. And then you're right. It's at a certain point, it just starts going crazy. Allen: Snowball. It just goes faster and faster. And then you have to do anything. It just doesn't by itself. Nelson: That's right. And even if you subtract nearly 3% inflation out of it, still a ton of money. Allen: Yep. Big time. Big time. Nelson: But but so you don't have to put on 20 spreads every month, you know, to do that you really can, you know, you really can do a lot less than that. And, you know, and if you make 10% you really can do that, like you teach. Allen: Well, thank you so much, Nelson. I really appreciate your time. I know this is gonna be very beneficial for a lot of people. And you know, it's wonderful having people like you in the community. You know, you're so selfless and you help other people and you're an inspiration. I really can't thank you enough. Nelson: Oh, no problem. I'm happy to help any way I can. Allen: Alrighty. Take care. Take care. Bye. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

I'm going to call this episode, a thing about scaling. And when I'm talking about scaling, I'm talking about scaling up your trading in terms of trading larger amounts and larger quantities of contracts. So this comes into play, because we have several students who are going through one of our, I guess, our credit spread mastery program. And we teach them the fundamentals, we teach them how to do the trades, we work with them, we show them how to do it. And then at the end, after they've had really great success, and they're ready for it, we talk about scaling, how to go from, you know, one to two to three contracts to 510 50 100 or more, depending on the size of the account. And so, we've been having these discussions, and that's why it's in the top of my head, and I noticed something recently, that I wanted to share with you. Now, I tell everybody, and I've said this many times on that podcast as well. trading is 80% Mental 20% Physical, right? So whatever you do, the thing, the analyzing, the research, the clicking, the monitoring, the trading itself, the stuff that you do with your hands on their broker, and moving money around all that stuff, that's 20% of trading. 80% is what goes on in your mind, and how you process how you handle things, your emotions. And when it gets to, when it comes to scaling, that really, really starts to play a bigger role, the emotions, how to handle those things, that is really important to have a handle on before you start scaling. Because otherwise, you're going to have issues. And those issues are going to be very expensive. So one of the things that I noticed recently, is I was doing a I had a $15,000 trade on. And it was a normal spread that I had put on, and it had hit my goal, which was 10% for the month. So it's like a great, you know, $1500.. not bad for a trade. I'll take it very nice. And so according to my plan, I'm supposed to take the trade off, I'm supposed to finish it exited, take my money and relax, right? Or move it to another trader or do whatever. But as I'm looking at this trade, it was not in my regular brokerage account, it was in a different brokerage account. And so the way that trade looks is different. Maybe that's why I felt or felt differently. But normally, you know, most of my trading is done in thinkorswim. This one was done in a different account. And so it looked like I said it looked different. It felt different. And so maybe that's what what threw me. But when I looked at the trade, it showed me that oh, I had made 15 $100, which was great. But there was plenty of time left. There was still another maybe another week, week and a half left in the trade. And I could have made another I think $600. I said "huh this is interesting. I made 1500, I got my goal, but I can make another 600. Now 600. That's a lot of money, right? I mean, I just have to sit in it for maybe like another 10 days, the stock is really far away from from my short strike. What are the chances of this trade going bad, pretty little probabilities on my side time is on my side, you know, data is gonna pick up and every day I stay in the trade, I could probably make another 100 bucks. Do I want to do that? Or do I want to stick to the rules? Now normally, I've gotten to the point where it's not even a question. I just take the trade off. But something caused me to pause. Something caused me to think about it like $600 that's a lot of money that give me for some people that's maybe not a house payment, but that's definitely a car payment. Right. Hmm, interesting. So I paused and I thought about it. I'm like maybe I can stay in it. Maybe I can stay in it. Now here I am. violating my rules. My rules is you get your gain, you get your 100% your your 10% profit and you get out. That's it. There's no ifs, ands or buts. You get your money get up. But here I am thinking about it. Eventually, I did get up. I took my money and I got out. But it really bothered me that I was sitting there thinking about it and trying to try to reason with myself. Oh, maybe I can stay in one more day. Maybe I could stay until the weekend. Maybe you can stand on Monday. You know get the whole weekend time decay. Yeah, maybe you could do that. How much can I make? Oh, and I kept like I kept going back and forth and thinking about and checking the trade over and over again when I didn't have to. And it just was not normal. And so that's what I wanted to share with you. It's like, Yeah, when you scale, you do the same things, you know, you press the same buttons, you do the same analysis, the same stock, same trade, same strategy, everything is the same. But emotionally, it's very different. Because the numbers get bigger. The numbers get bigger, you just add more zeros to it. Now, yes, technically, depending on how much you're trading, I have to tell you that you should probably do more in hedging, and you should probably change it up a little bit your trading. So that the trade is a little bit different, maybe you're hedging a different way, maybe using different strikes or different underlyings to make sure there's plenty of volatility and liquidity and all that stuff. So yeah, it varies a little bit depending on how much you scale and what strategy you use, and all that stuff. That's way beyond this episode. But my point here, is that while you're scaling, you got to have a handle on your emotions. And it's really important that you stick to your game plan. Now what happened with that trade? It expired, I could have made the extra money. But I'm happy that I stuck with my plan. I didn't let my brain in my emotions and all that get a better of me my greed, basically, right? the greed of wanting to Oh, that extra $600 could go far, you know? Nope, I had my gain, I heard everything. Now, normally, if this was a small trade, you know, maybe you would be like, Oh, I can make an extra 60 bucks, that wouldn't be a big deal. Okay, I can get out of my trade, no problem, I'm gonna, you know, I'm a good boy, I'm a good trader, I'm sticking to my plan, I'm following the plan getting out. But when you get to taking it off, and there's still $600 left on the table. $600 leaving on the table, that feels different, feels really different. And when you get into those extra contracts, you know, that that commission adds up to then, you know, what about if it's not 600? What if it's 6000?  Right? bigger numbers. So that's why you have to have a check on your emotions. And when you scaling, you know, we don't want to go from five contracts to 50 contracts, we want to go from five contracts to maybe eight, I don't even I wouldn't even want to go double, I'm gonna go step by step slowly, slowly, slowly, until you get the hang of it. One month, you maybe go to five, then 10, 15, 20, 25. As long as you're staying consistent, as long as you're staying true to your trading plan and trading by the rules that you've already set out. Right? Eventually, you'll get to the point where hey, I'm increasing this, maybe I need to tweak my rules a little bit, maybe I need to hedge myself a little bit more, maybe I need to change what my goal is, instead of making 10%, I'm going to try to make 8% and use 2% for insurance. Or maybe I'm going to change the underlyings that I'm trading in in my larger, larger trades, I'm going to go into some underlyings that are very liquid. So you change things up. Right. Now that comes with experience. And if you're one one of our programs, we can talk about that when you get to that level. In the beginning. Of course, you don't need to worry about that man as much. In the beginning, you stick to the plan, that's the biggest thing, focus on the plan, understand the plan, understand how the trade works, put it on, take it off, put it on, take it off over and over again, make it methodical, make it consistent, so that you're doing the same thing over and over again, so that you get consistent results. And then once you're consistent once the money is coming in, we can tweak it, we can improve it, and then eventually get to the point where Okay, now it's time to scale. And at that point, it gets emotional. So be careful for that when you're scaling. Be careful. And big plan here. No matter how big you get, no matter how much you're trading, you got to stick to the rules, no matter how much money is being left on the table, because you got to remember, hey, look, I got my goal. I got what I wanted. I'm playing it safe. And the more money you trade with, the more you have to keep it safe. Because I heard somebody going again on another call. And you know, this guy was talking on the podcast, he was talking to a billionaire. And a billionaire had a different mindset about investing. That billionaire was saying that, hey, when I invest in something, and they're talking about real estate, when I invest in a real estate property, I don't care as much about how much money I can make. I am more concerned with getting my capital back. I'm more concerned with return of capital, then return on capital. And so when you get to that level, when you get rich, right, when you get to multimillion dollar status, then your mind shift changes, your goals change, everything changes. So as you're scaling, when you get to that point, it becomes really I got to make sure that my money comes back. And then if my goal changes, maybe I don't need to make 10% on every trade. Maybe you make 3% maybe you make 2% even 1% on a lot of money is a big deal. Because eventually we know we've talked about this in the past that after you get to a certain level of net worth, you know, adding more money doesn't make you happier. It allows you to do more things, you know, your, your nest egg gets bigger, and you're, you know, you can buy more toys if you want to, but eventually, that stuff doesn't really make a difference in your life. At this point, we're talking, you know, maybe $30 million or higher in terms of net worth, you know, very few of us are at that level, eventually, I want to get there, you know, hopefully you get there too, and we can get there together. But for now, you know, we focused on scaling, focus on trading on a plan and getting our goal and getting out. Because the less time we're in the market, the less bad things can happen. Yes, we're leaving money on the table. But that's okay. Because I got the lion's share. You know, I got what I wanted, I'd be happy before I got into when I got into the trade was like, Okay, what would you want this trade to do? Well, I wanted to get my next goal, which is 10% for the trade. If I get that I'm happy. Good. So when you get that you should be happy and get up. Forget about whatever's left on the table. Let somebody else have the scraps, we got the lion's share. So when scaling, remember, you got to stick to your plan, keep your emotions in check. If you have any issues, you can reach out to us, we'll help you out. But I wanted to give you this quick lesson. This is something I noticed doing myself. And you know, I think mainly it was because that I was trading in a different environment. I was trading in a different software. And so what I was accustomed to seeing was different. You know, normally if I'm on my thinkorswim, I look at you know, what's my margin? And then what's my profit and loss on the trade. And if it's 10% of that I just get out. I don't even look at how much is left. But on this particular software, I couldn't see that. And so I had to figure it out by myself and like "Okay, did I get my 10%?" Yes, I did. Okay. Oh, wait, there's a lot of premium left. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so it gave me pause. But eventually I'm going to get used to it. And so hopefully, it doesn't bother me and I can stick to my emotions and stick to my plan. So I hope that helps. I hope that's something that you can keep in mind as you scale up. Again, trade with the odds in your favor, and we'll talk to you next time. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

Allen: Passive Traders, welcome to another edition of the Option Genius Podcast. In this episode I have the pleasure of introducing you to a fellow passive trader, Mr. Charles Betz. He is a passive trader and he is gonna talk about how he got started with a small dollar account and how he is using the Wheel Options Strategy to generate some very significant returns. I think you're gonna enjoy this one. Stay tuned. Allen: Cool. So tell me, tell me about Chuck, tell me about Mr. Betts, you know, what do you do? Who are you? How'd you get into trading? Chuck: I'm a high school teacher, I teach math and physics. It's a second career. My first career was in the restaurant industry. And you know, things just didn't really work out for me there. So then a teacher for then going into my 10th year of teaching. And the whole reason I got into trading was when I looked at the retirement system, the pension, everything that teachers can earn, it's like one of the few professions that still has a pension, I looked at how old I was going to be when I was going to be able to collect a decent income. And I thought, wow, I'm not sure I want to work to be that old one. I'm still working and retire at that age, like, how much am I going to have left? Who knows? So I started looking into other things that could maybe do to dial that number back. And I met with a buddy of mine, I have a real estate license, that's one of the things I got into while I was transitioning careers. He's he owned a, he ran his own little brokerage for a little while, and I was thinking about maybe, you know, selling some homes or listing some homes in the summer or on the side while I was teaching to make extra money. And he told me about options. He's like, you got to check this out. This crazy thing, like, and I'd heard of them, I'd looked into different types of trading, trading currencies and, and trading stocks. You know, that's one of the things I teach in one of my math classes was investing, you know, stocks and what are they and all that stuff. Just the basics, though. And I had never heard of options. So that's how I found out about options was through my buddy knows about two years ago. Allen: So okay, only about two years. All right. Chuck: Yeah. Allen: Cool. So instead of telling you to "Yeah, come on board and you know, love you sell houses for me", he just, he put you in a whole different direction? Allen: Well, he did offer to, you know, give you some leads, I could follow up on his real estate leads. But having done real estate full time in the past, I know how much time and effort and energy it takes to be successful in that industry. Yeah. And as a teacher, you know, I already had a few years under my belt, and I, I love this job. I love what I do. But I just don't want to do it forever. I couldn't see doing real estate and then teaching. At the same time, it just I don't know where I would find the time to do both. So I thought I'd look into options or something to do with the financial markets, because that's something that can be done without as much time to invest into it, you know? Allen: Yeah. What state are you in? Chuck: I'm in California, in Southern California. I live in the city of La Mesa is just outside of San Diego. Allen: Okay. And so they're unionized teachers there? Chuck: I was teaching at a school that had a union I was part of the Union have since left that school for.. Now, I teach from home. I was another thing I reason is because I had more time, I didn't have to go drive and be in a school building all day. I work with homeschool kids Allen: Oh, interesting. Chuck: It's homeschool them. And, you know, they get to that point in their schooling where they're like, I can't help you with that math, or I don't know how to teach you Physics. So that's where I come in. But we aren't part of a union. But we do still pay into the State Retirement where we get our funds from public schools. And from you know, the same way public schools do we are a public charter school. We're just not part of a union. So, that's the only difference. Allen: Okay, so I think you might have touched on this, but besides the money aspect, what drew you to trading? Chuck: I just wanted to not have to work until I'm in my late 60s. And I knew that if I could somehow increase our income, and put that into retirement savings. You know, we're we're starting to fund our Roth IRAs, and we're starting to give money to our 403B's. And we're, we also, you know, my wife's a teacher, too. So, you know, we're starting to we pay into the 403B is like a 401k. But.. Allen: ..for teachers Chuck: For teachers, right. And I was thinking, well, gosh, you know, it'd be really cool if we could just build up our investments faster. That way, we wouldn't have to rely on you know, that number they're gonna give you when you reach that age, it's all this calculator and this crazy math, and they tell you, well, if you teach this many years, and you're this age, we'll give you this much money. And I was like, that's all great, but I don't want to be 68 when I retire, how can I dial that back? So yes, it was about the money, but it was more about how can I start coming back from 68 and make it more like 65 or maybe 62? Or maybe even younger than that, you know, so yeah, that was really the goal was to not have to work until the 68 and how does your wife feel about that? She is on board like this whole thing is just been a huge eye opener. You know, I've kind of been a sucker in my life for all of these crazy money making schemes and it's something I learned from my mom growing up she got into all these crazy money making schemes and and you know, I've met a lot of really bad decisions and so it took a while for me to realize that no, this is legit like this is real. This works this this is not a scam it's not an overnight get rich quick scheme but but it's a legitimate way to increase your income and to reach that goal of financial security a lot faster than you normally would. So she's totally on board. Allen: That's awesome. That's really, I mean, I would say it's becoming more common. But in the.. Originally when a lot of people come to us, you know, they're like, yeah, you know, I want to do this, but my wife, she's totally against it. And she just thinks, like you said, you know, she just thinks it's another one of those things that I'm getting into, that I'm all excited about, I'm gonna spend money on course, or whatever. And then, either it's not gonna work, or I'm not gonna do it. So we have that pushback a lot from a lot of people, and I get where you're coming from. Because I mean, when I was little, you know, I've done it all to you know, network marketing, you know, real estate, sales, all that stuff, everything that I could think of, I even did those chain letters. I don't know if you ever did that, where no, you get a letter.. Chuck: I know what you're talking about. Allen: You get a letter, and it has like, 10 names. And you're like, Okay, you got to send $1 to each people on the name. And then and then you change the last and you put your name there, and then you send out 1000 letters, and then all those 1000 people are supposed to send you $1, and on and on and on. And yeah.. Chuck: Oh my gosh I totally remember those. Allen: That was cool. I think I got like, $1 back. Chuck: Yeah well growing up, you know, my mom bought into, I don't know, if you remember Carlton sheets, you know.. Allen: Yup, we got his programs Chuck: She was into Amway and selling Avon, and, you know, she was always trying to find that, you know, that next thing and, and so that's kind of the mindset I had growing up. But, you know, I just didn't really learn any financial literacy from her, you know, it was, it was kind of a struggle, really. So when I, when it found this, I've always, you know, when I got older, a little bit older in life, I started to realize, like, I don't have a whole lot of good financial knowledge from growing up. So I need to be a little bit more cautious about things. So I kind of made sure that this worked before I introduced it to my wife. And once she saw that it was working, she's like, Let's go, this is great. Are you kidding? Wow. Allen: Okay, so how did you so you said, you made sure that it work? How did you do that? Chuck: So we had a brokerage account that I had just bought some stocks in, we opened it up when our daughter was born, we had a few thousand dollars in there. And you know, just it was just sitting there not really doing anything and never really appreciated and value never went up. It was you know, over the years, when I was in real estate, some of the guys in the office, we're doing penny stocks, and maybe have a couple $100 of that. And, and so over the years, there was a total of a couple grand in there, I read that a little over 3000. And so when I first found out about Options, I used that because she really didn't even know about that. It was like this account that she barely knew.. Allen: She forgot about it.. Chuck: Whatever, it's no big deal. And so I used that to figure out, is this legitimate? Is this going to work? Or is this another one of those things where I'm just going to be like, oh, there I go again, making poor decisions about things don't really work. And at first, it didn't, you know, one of the the the program and the education program that my buddy introduced me to, the thing they used to get me into it was buying options, which totally went against everything that I heard from you, and from another podcast person that I listened to where all you guys talked about as being a seller of options. But the way they presented the course and all the information, it made so much sense. There was logic and you know, a program and a trading plan. And so I put that in, in motion with my little small account and lost a third of it over the course of about four or five months. So that's my start into option. Yeah.. Allen: Yeah that's pretty common. A lot of people go that route because it I mean, it's more appealing because oh, if you buy an option, you can double your money, triple your money 10 times your money overnight, you know. And it's great, because they have plenty of examples, you know, they can show you Oh, we did this trade. And we had this trade we did this trip, they don't show you the other 99 trades that didn't do well. But they show you the few that did. So great. So how did you find out about option genius? How did you get started with us? Chuck: I was looking for more education, more information. You know, I watched tons of YouTube videos about what options are. All the Greeks and all the details and all that stuff. And I go out, mental part of my daily routine is to go out for an hour long walk, walk about three miles every morning, I'll put my earbuds in and I started listening to podcasts about investing and and then eventually trading and now options. And yours was one of the few out there that I could find there aren't that many people doing consistent podcasts about options trading. So between you and this other one that I was listening to. Again, both of you were primarily talking about selling options, and here I was over buying options and like something is.. I'm not doing something right. I'm losing money, and these guys are talking about doing something different. I gotta get this figured out. So that's how I found you guys was through podcasts. So thank you for putting out the podcast. Allen: Okay, no, you're welcome. It's been a it's been an interesting journey for the podcast. So what was the the first product that you tried with us? or what have you had? Chuck: So I went to your website, I signed up for your emails, just your basic emails, here's what we do that kind of stuff. And you sent out a scholarship request, you were offering a scholarship for your passive trading program. And, you know, like I said, I didn't have a whole lot of extra money on the side, I was using a really small account, you know, to buy a program is like, Oh, I'm still not sure about this stuff. But you offered a scholarship and your your introductory video for what you want. And you're like, you know, I've offered this before, like, nobody's ever really done anything with it. I was really kind of disappointed by all the people who, you know, I've given the scholarship to I haven't really had any success stories. So maybe you can be a success story. And I'm like, Yes, that is me. I want to be that guy. So I put together my video and I sent it in and you emailed me, congratulations. You know, we're awarding the scholarship, and I just about my head exploded, it was fantastic. So I watched all the courses. I take notes on all the courses that you teach. I have my little options notebook here that I write everything down, like, word and awesome. And just right when it all was over started, started working the plan. So that's how I found you guys. Allen: And how how's it been? so far? That was about two years ago. You said? Chuck: A year and a half ago.. Allen: Year and a half. Okay. Chuck: It was actually February of 2020. Good Time to get started, right? Yeah, I started placing my first trades, and my first few trades were profitable. I hit my profit margins, just like the plan says everything was going great. Oh, my gosh, let's keep going. Let's do the next month beginning of March, you know, open up my trades, and then Coronavirus, right. And so everything went south, but I could see like this is working. I totally get that this works. We just had this huge adjustment in our market based on what was going on. So I just kept going and going after that. And it's been going great. Allen: But you had the hope, right? Chuck: Oh, yeah, no, I can see that it worked. That was the thing I saw the results, I saw that this new strategy I'd never used before. It works. What all of these guys talk about books that I've read, talk about selling options is the way to make money. It works. It was the first time I had ever sold an option. I was like, Oh my gosh, this stuff works. Kind of like how you talked about in your story where you're like, man, I was losing money. And I looked at the this one option. And it was the one I sold. And I was like what it was like a light bulb moment. Right? Allen: Yep. Yeah. So So how did you handle the the Corona bear market? Chuck: You know, I lost some money, but I just got right back in. Like, I think it turned around within a few weeks. Like actually, as it started going down, I start I just flipped to the other side of the options chain, you know, and started taking advantage of it on that side. And okay, because I could see, okay, we're gonna go down for a few days, or maybe a week or who knows how long but that's the beauty of options is, you know, if there's a clear trend and what's going on, you can jump to the other side. Allen: Awesome, cool. Cool. So how have your trading results been so far? Chuck: Um, I'm keeping track. So that account was so small, and I really wasn't doing what I wanted to do based on what the passive trading formula, you know, they're the three main types of trades and you break it all down by account size and my accounts, I was so small, and I wasn't having as much luck with what the one strategy to build it up. So I rolled over my 403 beat from my previous employer to my current brokerage as a rollover IRA and got it approved for options and started trading there. That was October of last year. Allen: Okay. Chuck: And since October, it's up 26%. Allen: Okay, so what does that like nine months or so? Chuck: Yeah, yeah. And also, if I, if I look at the graph, because most math people would like to graph things. As I look at the graph, I should be right around 30 to 35% on a year over year basis. So using using that strategy. Allen: Sweet, very nice. So what strategies are you using? Chuck: Right now and selling puts to get into positions.. Allen: Okay. Chuck: And once I'm in that position, I do covered calls, and I'm doing them a little closer to the money because I don't really care if it gets called away. As long as I'm, you know, not negative in that particular option, like position, I should say, I look at each position like a little business, right? If I'm going to put this money out there, I want to make me money. And as long as I'm profitable in that position, if it gets called away as long as I've made money on it, you know, when it's all said and done, perfect. So that's what I've been doing. It's just kind of been bouncing back and forth right now. I don't I'm not holding anything right now. I might get assigned this Friday. We'll see depending on where that put closes. So yeah, that's what I've been doing. Allen: Then what type of stocks? Are you doing this on? Chuck: Actually, I've only been using ETFs. Allen: Okay Chuck: So I found that stocks dip, you know, they move a lot I've been I've been looking at, I've been doing credit spreads a little bit like, you know, you're taught to do credit spreads. So, I've been doing a couple of those here and there, I'm starting to get back into trying those out and making sure I can figure out I know what I'm doing. But I like doing it on ETFs. Because I feel like you know, an ETF isn't going to go bankrupt, an ETF isn't going to go down to zero. So I've been using, you know, smaller ETFs, some of the different ETFs that have smaller, you know, price per share points. So that, because my IRA account isn't that big. So, you know, but and I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket, I don't want to do all of it one trade, so I want to spread it around. So I've been using just this list of ETFs that I found that, you know, fit all the criteria you mentioned in the course and just keep selling puts on them until I get assigned and then doing covered calls. And if it gets called away, then I just go back to selling puts again, and it just keeps going around around around. Allen: Awesome. So that puts your selling in the covered calls, they are what weekly every two weeks, three weeks a month? Chuck: They're on mostly I'm doing monthly, most of the time, I'm looking for like a 30 to 35 days till expiration, put to sell all of the ETFs do offer weekly options, you know, I want to make sure that fit that criteria of having weekly options. And there's lots of liquidity, you know, not that you necessarily need it if you're okay with being assigned. But still, you know, if there for some reason you wanted to get out of a trade, you got to be able to get out of the trade. But there is one where I've been doing it a little bit more like just testing out this idea of trying it every like two to three weeks. So I've been doing puts where they'll expire anywhere between 18 and 24 days instead of 30 to 35 just to see what the results aren't, you know, playing around with things and right, keeping tracking data and keeping track of everything to see if it offers any edge whatsoever. Allen: Right. And you're not and you're not keeping the stocks too long. So you're not really worried about the dividend? Chuck: No, not at all. I mean, I'm hoping to build, you know, to get to that point. And like you say in your program where it's like, Okay, you got this host of really good stocks, you get your dividends that are coming in, and then you're just doing calls on top of that to help juice those returns. So but my accounts not quite there yet. Allen: Okay, no worries. Chuck: Or size goes. Allen: Yeah, no, that's awesome. So okay, so you're doing like basic butter, I mean, bread and butter covered or naked puts, get some premium, maybe they expire, maybe they get assigned. And then you turn around right around and you do what like at the money covered calls are a little bit out of the money or.. Chuck: Depending on how if I do get assigned, you know, it depends on where I got assigned at. So if it did go through a couple of dollar drops, let's say it was trading at $40 a share and I sold that put and and then it drops to 38. You know, I'll make sure that I sell the call. So that I'm above my cost basis. I want to make sure I'm not losing money on the position. So sometimes it's a little further out of the money. But most of the time, I'm trying to sell it pretty much right at where I got it sound. Okay, awesome. and collect the premiums to build my account faster. Allen: That's cool. Yeah, I mean, congratulations. I mean, you're doing better than most people out there and a lot of Professionals. Chuck: Yeah it's amazing. I'm floored I really am when I started plotting everything and looking at the returns. I was like, Are you kidding me? This is crazy. Unbelievable. Allen: How long does it take you in the day to do this? Chuck: Oh, not long at all. I do in the morning. You know, before my workday starts or some sometimes before I go out for my morning walk. You know if it I'll look Monday or Tuesday. Okay, let's sell another put in, I just got my list of ETFs that I look at and I say okay, how much did that one expire? Cool, I've got some more money in my account. Let's sell another one. Did I get assigned? Okay, let's look at the chain where where do I need to do my covered call at. Okay, let's do it there. And then I go on with my day. That's it. It's I love it because it's so low maintenance during the school year, my days are unswamped. Like I don't have a whole lot of time to sit here and stare at a screen of the markets and go through and look at charts and all that. So this plan really just fits what I'm looking for. Allen: Okay, so okay, now, I don't know if you've done this. But if you extrapolate and say, okay, you know, I'm doing about 25-30% a year, if I can do that every year, which you know, with the style that you're doing, you should be able to do somewhere close to that, right? Does that help you or does that? Have you done the numbers and be like, Well, you know, I could probably retire five years earlier, four years early or something like that. Chuck: That's been a moving target. And it's really been hard to nail down because all of this is just so recent. It's also very recent, and you sent out that email. I don't remember like a month or two ago. What's your number and you linked it to that article. where, you know, that guy offered to give you as much money as you want you write a number down? How much money would you need to never work again for the rest of your life. And I'm going to ask for other people. And whoever gives me the lowest number wins. I thought that was amazing. Because then I got me to think, what is my number? I never, I mean, I know that this whole thing was designed to dial back my my want to work till 68. Right. But what would this get me if I were to project this out? Could I stop teaching at 62? Could I stop teaching at 59, I really need to look at all of the pieces of the puzzle, to get a clear picture of what that's going to look like and when. But it's very exciting. This is exciting stuff to get to do, you know? Allen: Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, if you, if you're still looking at that way, that's great. But I would like you to look at it from a different point of view as well, now that you've already seen, you know, that it works is power behind it. Now, let's figure out okay, how much do you need every month to pay the bills, so that we don't need to worry about what your big number is in the, you know, in the big number in the sky? Think we need X dollars every month to pay the bills? How much do I need in my account? To cover that amount? Right? So if you want to, you know, like, let's say your monthly expenses are five, six grand, and you know, as an example, well, hey, if I can make that much five, six grand from my trading account every month doing these simple trades, boom! I can retire today, you know, and then it's up to you. It's I could do I want to keep teaching? Yeah, that's great. Or do I want to go volunteer? Or do I want to teach for free? Or, you know, it, the sky's the limit at that point? So, you know, definitely, I don't want people to think that they have to wait till 6568, they could do it a lot sooner. And when you look at it, from that point of view, that's another like, aha moment like what really that possible? Yeah, it is. And it doesn't take as much as you would think, especially when you're, you know, bringing in like, one 2% a month. If you can build it up, then. And once you take a look at it, your expenses. I mean, you're in California, so maybe a little bit higher with the taxes and whatnot. But if you structure it in a different way, it might be a lot less than you realize. Chuck: I think I'm going to do that. Just knowing that, you know, I haven't done a full year, I think once I hit that October deadline, where I've been doing this a year, and I see that number, and I know that it works, that's a really good opportunity to say, hey, how much would I need in my account? In order to do this and live off of it, like pay my bills, pay my expenses, and not have to worry about going to a classroom every day during the school year, or teaching zoom classes or planning lessons or grading papers? Or you know, any of that just, you know, then what would I do with my time? No, I could, like you said, volunteer or tutor for free or do something else. Just Yeah, that's a that's a really interesting thought. Allen: I mean, I wouldn't want you to leave teaching because I know we need our teachers. But you know, just the fact of not having to worry. Like we've had multiple, multiple people that come into our system, where they get to that point, you know, where hey, yeah, I'm making as much as from my job as I am from my trading. But I love my job so much. I want to keep doing it. Yeah. So it feels really good. your self esteem goes up the way you think about yourself, the way you carry yourself all that changes, because now you're like, wow, you know, I'm in control of my own destiny. Chuck: Yeah I can see that I just just from the success I've had, I can kind of see that mindset shift for me, you know, what my thoughts are about the future and, and what's possible. Allen: Like, I know, like, you know, recently after Corona, we've had this really great bull market, you know, things have been going up things have been doubled, tripled since when they from the hit the bottom and they went up. So a lot of people have made a lot of money, especially the buying option, guys, right now they're walking on water, because they're like, oh, everything that every option I buy, it goes up, every call option goes up. So they're making money, but the thing that you're doing, it works in a bull market when things are going up, but it always works when things are going sideways. And it works really good even when things are going down. You know, so if you came to me and said, Oh, yeah, you know, I've been buying options, and I made 40% or 30% this year, really Congratulations, but you're not gonna be able to do that year after year after year. You know, but what you're doing, yeah, it can be done year after year after year. And then you start compounding that eventually, very quickly, within three, four or five years, you know, that number every month of what you're bringing in just exponentially grows and grows and grows and it gets huge. So I'm really excited for you. So it's like the, you know, future looks really really bright for you. Chuck: It really does. It's it's just an having come to you know, financial stability, I will say at a later age in life and thinking about okay, when I got into teaching at least I will be able to retire at some point, you know, even though that was 68 and then stumbling into this It just blows my mind. Because, you know, I wish I had found it sooner just like teaching. I love teaching. I wish I had started doing this earlier in my life. But yeah, the opportunities that trading opens up are limitless. This has just been amazing. And I can't thank you enough because you guys offered me the scholarship. And here I am. I'm loving it. Allen: Yep. Okay, so now we've talked a lot about the good stuff, right. But what now what was maybe the most challenging thing to get you started to doing this or achieve some success with this? Chuck: I think well, two things. One was the account size, small account to start with. But the second was more of a mental thing. And again, I don't know if it had to do with all of those horrible schemes, those money making schemes that I've come to in the past to really just trust and believe in this and know that it works and trust in the process and click Submit on that order and just watch it work. But I think the mental part of it was probably the hardest thing to get over. And I hear so many people that I listened to and read about talk about that aspect of what it is we're doing, where the mental part of trading is probably one of the most important things, because anybody can do a strategy. And anybody can come up with a trading plan. But if you don't have the right mindset about that plan, it's not going to work for you. It's just not. And I think that was the hardest thing that when it clicked for me, it was like, Oh, my gosh, why did it take so long? But I think getting the right mindset was probably the hardest thing for me. Allen: Okay, and how did you go ahead and get that mindset? Chuck: Knowing that there's limited risk, like what we do you limit your risk? You know, the, when there are certain things that you know, people talk about options, I have a friend who used to work in the financial markets. And I was asking him if he knew anything about options, because oh, man, I don't know, the only thing I know is those are really risky. But what we do you define your risk, right? You You have a, here's your maximum loss, you are willing to lose, you're not going to lose your house and your life savings and be destitute living on the street. There's a and you can make that as small as you want. And I think that helped comfort me a little bit and just saying, Well, look, if it doesn't work, this is what I'm going to lose. Am I okay with that? Yeah, that's not going to make a big deal in the long run. So let's give it a try. So that part of it really helped me get over the mindset of losing, or the fear of losing being greater than the fear of opportunity, or the the actual idea of opportunity. So yeah, just the mindset thing that really took a while for me to wrap my head around, and just do it. But I again, reading so many people talk about it, and great examples of how to get over it. Just, it's I'm so glad I did. Allen: Awesome. Awesome. Cool. So let's say if we have a listener who's in your shoes, where you were about year and a half, two years ago, what would you tell that person? How would you tell? How would you advise them to get started? Or what should they do first, second, third? Chuck: Educate yourself. Definitely, you know, I spent several months just educating myself as much as possible with from reputable people. Like I said, I listen to your podcast, I listen to podcasts of other people, I read books, watch the YouTube videos from reputable sources, you can kind of tell the snake oil salesmen out there, so I would always just kind of tell them, you know, ignore those. But, you know, there are plenty of valid sources of free material to educate you about what options are and how they can work for you. So first, make sure you know what you're doing. But then second, get yourself a somebody who knows what they're doing to help you out. This has been such a helpful community that you've introduced me to everybody in our Facebook group, you offer all of the support, you know, it's just been so helpful to know that there are people out there doing it with me, even though I'm here alone in my office, you know, watching the screen or doing what I'm doing, but definitely somebody who's new - educate yourself, find somebody who's going to help you, and then just do it. You just be okay, with losing a couple 100 bucks. Trust me, I think most people have probably spent a couple 100 bucks on something useless Anyway, you know, and so, I think it's worth it to see that this works. And that'll just be a complete different, a complete mind change for you. Allen: Cool. Okay, so now thinking back to the program that you were in the passive trading formula, give me like maybe two or three takeaways that you know, when you went through it, it really hits you and you're like, Okay, this you know, this makes a lot of sense. This is good. I need to start using this stuff. Chuck: There are rules for everything. You have everything there is a template, it's a pre determined, this is how you do it. This is what you look for this is when you see this go. And as a math teacher math is just rules, right? And what you do when you know there are rules for every type. Math. So if you follow these rules, you'll get the right answer. So if you follow that trading rule, you will get the desired outcome. You know that I think that was one of the biggest takeaways from your entire program was that there's a template, it's laid out for you, you know, here, here's what to look for, here's what to do when things go wrong. Here's what to do when things go right. Here's how to be successful at this and then just do it. That's it. That was the beauty of it is how simple it is. And the fact that I don't have to be glued to my computer screen all day. It's perfect. Allen: Mm hmm. Cool. Okay. Chuck: I hope that answer your question, I hope. Allen: Yeah, I did. Yeah, it's up to you is whatever I mean, you know, everybody looks at it from a different point of view. You know, when some people start asking the same question, it's like, some people they talk about, oh, yeah, you know, I'm gonna be able to do this. With like, some people have certain disabilities, and they can't, they can't work or they can't focus, or they can't do some some other things. And they get drawn to this. Other people look at it. And their takeaway is like, Oh, you know, I'm coming at this from like, let's say, a real estate background, we have a lot of real estate investors, they get involved in options, because it makes sense. You know, you're you're buying a house, you're renting it out, you're cash flowing it, well, you could do that same thing with stocks, you know, your covered call is cash flowing your stocks. So it's kind of the same thing. And so different, like I love your answer is great. Everybody looks at it from a different point of view. So I just like hearing what attracted and what people took away the template thing, you know, that that's something, I've heard it but not not too much? And I think it is, it's one of the things we like to do is just keep it simple, you know, you can, like you said, there are other people out there, they're teaching this stuff. But what I find is that they make it so complicated, that it stops people in their tracks from like, oh, man, I'm never gonna understand this stuff. What is he talking about? i? Geez. So that's what we kind of, you know, especially this program is like, yeah, this is really simple. You know, like, just get started, start with one foot, start with another foot, you don't have to go running, you just start walking a little bit, and crawling a little bit, and eventually you'll, you'll get the hang of it. So.. Chuck: Yeah, it's been great. I think the other thing that hooked me the most was you use the analogy of insurance a lot. And that really was like another lightbulb moment. For me. There was a book I was reading, where they talked about it from being an insurance company perspective. You've talked about it from that perspective, I used to work for AIG selling life insurance back before they had to get bailed out. That was an interesting time. But insurance for that perspective, and selling options totally makes sense to me. And being able to define your risk, you know, what insurance market Do you want to go into? Do you want to be a reinsurance company where you're going to handle all the crazy insurance that nobody else will touch? Or do you want to be a super conservative insurance company, that's really what trading options is, you're, you're out there taking on a little bit of risk and collecting some money and just do it month after month. And it's amazing. It's just amazing. And that so that whole insurance analogy just really clicked with me. So between that and and the step by step, here's the template, follow this process, and let it fly. That those two were the huge takeaways for me. Allen: Okay, cool. Awesome. So based on your experience, would you recommend Option Genius to others? Chuck: Oh, yeah, I already have! A buddy that I mentioned, options to he used to work for the wealthiest guy here in San Diego County was the guy manages several billion dollars worth of investments. But you know, his portfolio kind of shrank over the past several years, and he's just looking to hang it up. So he got laid off. And he was the one I asked if he knew anything about options, and he could get all freaked out, oh, they're risky. And I said, Well, you should look into this guy, you should, you know, go listen to some of his podcasts. That's how I was introduced. And if what he's saying makes any sense, you know, I'm happy to turn you on to what they're doing over there. It's It's amazing. It really is. And so, I don't know if he's, I haven't talked to him. I don't know if he's listened to the podcast and ran with it or done anything with it. But I'll probably check in with him here before I go back to school next month. Allen: I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, you know, everything that we can do to get the word out there, because the situation for.. I mean, you're you're lucky that you're a teacher, and you have that built in pension, you know, it's kind of I've learned a little bit about it, but it's like your teachers are kind of in that situation, or better often. Most companies are most people that don't have that fallback plan. A lot of people are really, really and you have the other thing, I don't know if you, you're in high school teacher, right. So I mean, if you were unionized, I've seen these, it's harder to lay off a teacher. Chuck: Oh, yeah. Allen: But we have so many, so many people that come to us and say, you know, I was a high level executive. I was making a couple 100 grand a year, but then they decided to lay me off and they brought in somebody that's, you know, doing the work cheaper. And now I can't find a job that will pay me the same amount I was making so my family's used to a certain lifestyle. I can't provide it anymore. Yeah, I wish I had found this stuff so much sooner. And so that's why it's like I'm out there like man, you know, we really need to get this stuff out there. People need to hear about it. Chuck: I agree! Allen: Even if they're doing just the basics, you know, just, you know you already have, most people already have a stock portfolio, they already have their indexes, just, you know, just sell a few options every few years, every month, you know, not even every month, they can do it every few months, they can still make a little bit more than they're making now. And in the long run, it'll add up and workout. So Alright, last question for you. What do you think the future holds for you now? Chuck: That is completely up to me. You know, I've always been a believer in that, that I kind of control my destiny and my circumstances, don't necessarily, I'm here because of who I am. So, but I feel like my future has just, it's wide open. It really is I daydream a lot more. I think about the opportunities and the possibilities a lot more. You know, it's like you said, What if 5, 6, 7 years from now, this could replace your teaching income? Would you continue to teach, you know, or would you do something else? And those are the thoughts that I have. And I just, like I said, haven't really committed it to paper and, and, and talked it over with my wife to figure out okay, if I could, you know, would I? Or could I? Or should I, and what would I do? You know, what would I deal with all that time? But those are the, that's that's what I see for me and a future is just so many possibilities. You know, there's so many things that I thought I would have to wait to do until I'm much much older than I am now. And, and the thought of being able to get to do those sooner rather than later. It's really exciting. Allen: Yeah. Is there anything that one thing that you've always wanted to do that you're like, yeah, I'm gonna give it a shot? Chuck: So interesting story. My last job in the restaurant business, I was a brew master. And I worked for a company called rock bottom breweries. There used to be one I know you're in. In Texas, there was one in Houston for a long time. I don't know if it's still there or not. But I was a Brewmaster for the rock bottom breweries, and I absolutely loved it. It was a fun company. It was a fun job, that beer community, the craft brewing community, and this was back in the late 90s. No, this was before everything blew up like it is now. So and I had to get out because of a workplace injury. Well, you know, so many of these little tiny neighborhood breweries are opening up where it would be super easy to manage on my own and just do it part time, B 4 days a week, I've seen people do that business model. I think that would be a fantastic thing to do with my time. Just make some beer for the local community sponsor, some little league teams and some softball teams and just just, you know, work part time and have a great time. Allen: That sounds awesome. Yeah, yeah. So what are you gonna do it? I know, I'm pushing you here. Chuck: I know, I think I should I really do. I think if that's the one thing I could do, if I got out of this, what would I do with my time? I think that's what I would do. I really do. Allen: Sweet , cool. I like it. I like it. It's a good plan. I mean, I wouldn't want you to stop teaching but you could do this in your afternoons. Chuck: Tutoring is an option. And with tutoring, you can set your own hours tutors get paid fairly well, you don't have to, you know, be locked in a classroom for six and a half hours or glued to a computer screen teaching three or four hours a day. Tutoring can just be Hey, an hour here an hour there. And you know, you're still helping students out you're still passing down that knowledge that you know, and, and being a part of the education journey, you know, somebody who's who's never been, you know, to college, or whatever it may be. But at the same time, having all my other time to do other things that I want to pursue, like, like running my own brewery. Allen: That sounds interesting. That sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah, I mean, I'm in Houston. Well outside of Houston. So I don't remember that one. But there are several here. And like, I've been to a couple of them. There's one called St. Arnold. I think they they sponsor, you know, the MS. Ms. 150, which is like a bike race. They're big sponsors of different charities and stuff around. I don't drink, but it's just the vibe when you go there. And it's just a whole it's, it's just different atmosphere. So yeah. Chuck: Oh, yeah. And that's what drew me to it was the community, you know, as a job. It's just a job here. You know, it's pretty physical manual labor to run one of those breweries. Yeah. But it is more of the community, you know, sponsoring local events and just reaching out, you know, giving giving money away cuz brewing beer is like printing money. The cost of the materials to make that stuff is next to nothing. And they're selling it for four or five, six bucks a glass that's, it's like printing money. It's crazy. So you know, I would just love to be a part of my community here and give back. Allen: Yeah, I've always thought to get into something like snow cones or something like that. You know, you're just selling. Chuck: Yeah. Oh, my gosh, those used to come to my daughter's Elementary School. Same thing. Yeah. You know, just putting a little flavored syrup on a cup of ice and you're charging four bucks for that. Oh, my gosh, yeah. Allen: Fun thing. Cool. All right. So thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for your time. I'm so happy and proud of your success. Had you really, you know, you took that scholarship, you ran with it, it was all on you, you know, I mean, we we did what we could we supported you however we could, but it takes, like I said, you know, when you saw the video, there are several people that have been through that program, and they start everybody starts out fresh and excited. And you know, but then life happens and they kind of fall off. But not you. I mean, you took it, you ran with it, you're actually doing it. And I think that's the biggest thing, you know, you want to change your life, you have to set your goal, you have to set it and this is something that I'm going to do. And then you just do it month after month you keep at it and you work on it, like you said you had, you know, you lost a little money in the beginning with the different program, and then you found something that made sense. And that's like, the biggest thing is, oh, this makes sense to me, okay, I press this, I do this, I do this. And that happens. Okay, let me try, you tried it, it worked. Allen: And you're like, Okay, I could do this. And then you just kept building on it and building on it. And like you said, Now you're getting you know, you're trying to do the credit spreads, you're learning a different strategy, you're getting a little bit more creative and more advanced. You don't really have to, you know, you've had great success, you know, if the S&P was doing 30% every year, like, we'd all be billionaires, we wouldn't have to do any of this. But it does it. But if you could do that year after year, I mean, you'd be you know, you could be starting your own school and your own Brewmaster school or whatever you want to do. You'd be starting up pretty soon. So I'm really excited for you. I appreciate you. Thank you for taking the time to apply for that scholarship, and then just taking and run with it and doing it and it just makes me so, it makes me so happy. You know, it's like, yeah, you know something, I'm actually doing something that's making a difference for somebody. Chuck: I can't thank you enough, Allen, for extending that, for offering this all the support, you know, for the past year and a half that I've been part of the program, you know, the the coaching and the support community on Facebook, and just, you know, just putting that information out there and sharing your knowledge and your belief in other people. So I just want to extend that thank you to you personally, because I will be forever grateful. Allen: You're welcome. You're welcome. And I mean, you've made me come to the decision, that yeah we want to offer this scholarship again this year, you know, in the past? I don't know, man, is it helping anybody? We just wasting our time? But no, I, you know, I think we need to even if it helps out one person like it's, I think it'd be worth it. So normally, we do it around Thanksgiving. So those of you who are listening, if you're interested in the program, you want to wait till Thanksgiving, I wouldn't advise it. But hey if money's tight, then maybe that's what you got to do. Right. So we're on Thanksgiving, we'll probably come out with a scholarship again, for a limited number of people. But yeah, thank you so much again, Chuck. This has been awesome. Appreciate it. And we'll talk to you soon. Chuck: All right, thanks, again, take care. Allen: Uh huh. Buh-bye LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

Before we get into this episode, I did want to remind you that we have Futures Options Live coming up July 30, it's going to be an all day seminar, virtual Zoom event where we're going to be teaching and talking and answering questions all day long. It's gonna, if you haven't been if you don't anything about futures options, and this episode will be great to listen to, to get some understanding a little bit, but we're gonna go deep, deep, deep on Friday, and tickets are going really fast. Hopefully, there are still tickets by the time you hear this. But if you go to FuturesOptionsLive.com that's where you get more information, FuturesOptionsLive.com, and the link will be in the show notes. Now, let's hit the music and on the other side, we're going to be listening to the difference between futures options, and stock options. So what are the difference between futures options and stock options? We get this question a lot, because I do have a Oil Trading Program and oil is a futures. And I talk about it a lot, because it's one of the favorite ways to trade. But really quickly, I wanted to go over and there are several reasons I'm going to give you the top three, you know what now I'm going to give you the top four, let's give you a bonus, right, the top four differences between futures options and stock options. Now, I do still trade stock options. And I probably always will. But by adding futures options to it to my investments, and to my portfolio, to my strategies, it's really been amazing. It's given me really, really great diversification, it's given me a lot more fun in my trading. And it really  adds another element and another way to generate income and passive income really, that, well, let's get into the differences and you can see for yourself.  So number one, the numbers are bigger when you're trading futures options. And there's a couple of different reasons for this. And the numbers being bigger. I mean, they're all all the numbers are bigger. Number one, there's more leverage. Okay, so now, when you're talking about stock options, you're talking about a regular trading account, they have something called portfolio margin. So this is for those traders who have over 100, 130, 150, I don't know how much the limit is. It varies by broker, but you need somewhere over $100,000 in your regular trading account. And you have to have a lot of experience in order to qualify for something called portfolio margin. Regular margin accounts, you know, when you buy stock they give you, if you buy, you know, you have the money for one stock, they'll let you buy two shares, that's 50% margin, that's what normal accounts are. Portfolio margin - they'll give you five times. So if you have you for buying one stock, they'll give you the the let you borrow the money to buy five shares. So it's like five times bigger. Now, that in stock world that only happens if you have portfolio margin. In the futures world, they have something called span leverage, which is very similar to portfolio margin. And everybody gets that right off the bat. So you have more leverage, right when you start. What does that mean? Well, it means that the premium for every option is higher. So you can make a lot more money per contract, than you can in the stock market world for the same amount of risk. And secondly, you can spend less time in each trade, because you can hit your goals much faster. So if you have a profit goal, hey, I'm gonna make 10% when make 15% whatever it is, you can hit that way, way, way in advance. Okay, so in my Oil Options account, my goal is to make 10% on the account every single month, and whatever trades I put on, I'm usually in and out of them in two weeks. So compare that to my iron condors. Right? I'm also trying to make 10% on my iron condor, but I'm usually in there for 30, 35 days, sometimes 45 days. So it's much sooner, much quicker, because the numbers are bigger. The other difference where the numbers are bigger is that the amount controlled by each option is just one futures contract. Okay, so it's not 100 shares to one option, like the stock it's one futures contract is controlled by one options contract. And then that how much control that futures contract has depends on what commodity or what future you're trading. So if you're talking about oil, it's barrels, you know, you might be doing 10,000 barrels per futures contract. That's a lot of money, right? 10,000 barrels, you're controlling a lot of oil with just one options contract. With soybeans, it's the number of bushels. Corn is, you know, bushels. Wheat - same thing. With gold, it's ounces. So the numbers are bigger because you're controlling thousands and thousands of dollars worth of the commodity with each contract. So that's the first thing, numbers are bigger. And that really is awesome. Because you can make a lot more money, you can lose money, too. So it goes back and forth. Right? But if you have the proper strategy, and you have the proper risk management in place, you can take advantage. Secondly, trading on futures options is almost 24 hours a day. So this is great for people who maybe they work a full time job, and they can't trade during market hours. So they come home, and they can still trade the same markets. Yes, it is less liquid. But it's still tradable. And when we teach you the way we do it, you know, it's pretty simple, you could put some trades on and it works great. This also is great for our overseas friends. You know, if you're in a different country, besides the United States or Canada, you can be trading the same markets when you're awake, you don't have to wake up super early to to get the opening bell in the United States. Third, the futures markets, they protect their traders in a way that the stock market does not. So if there are really big moves, there are two different things that the futures market does, that changes what you're allowed to do as a trader, to help you protect, right to hedge yourself to be where you have less money at risk when the markets are crazy, volatile and wild. Now, I don't have time to go into all that because I don't want to make this a three hour episode. But we will be covering those at the at the futures options live. We do cover it in there. And so we'll be talking about those different protections.  But just know this, that the futures options markets protect traders better than the stock market. And then lastly, our bonus one - commodities and futures are actually easier to trade. Because they're easier to predict. Right? Somebody comes to me and says, Hey, what's the stock market going to do next month, next year? Nobody knows. Nobody can tell you with any certainty, or any even close to being correct. Unless they're just very lucky. In futures, it's a little bit different. And there's several reasons why. So number one, technical analysis, if you're good at that, if you understand Fibonacci, or if you understand support resistance, if you understand basic moving averages, you'll do better trading futures, than in stocks, the technical analysis just works better. Because most futures options traders, and most futures traders, they use technical analysis a lot more. There's not as much fundamental analysis used, there's not as much valuation and all this other stuff that people use to trade stocks. So that the technical analysis, all those signals and indicators, they are more effective, and they work better. Number two, the trends stay longer intact. So if there's a bullish trend, you know, in a stock market, it might last maybe a month. In a commodity is gonna last a lot longer. So for me, I love trend following, I love trading trends, you know, that takes away a lot of risk for me in my book. So when when there's a trend, I wanted to stay consistent, I wanted to stay long, I want to I want this trend, just keep going and going and going so that I can extract as much money as I can from it. Three, demand and supply is a lot more important and prevalent. Okay, so in the stock market, you know, demand supply, it's not really that relevant, because companies can increase the supply or decrease the supply of the stock whenever they want. They could do a stock split, there's more supply all of a sudden, right? They can issue more shares, oh, all of a sudden, more supplies. The owners could sell their stock if they want to up more supply if the stock on the stock market. So they can dilute or liquidate or play games with their stocks. And how many shares are outstanding, and that affects the price. With a commodity like, you know, wheat, you really can't do that. You can't just snap your fingers and make more wheat. So how much wheat there is in supply and how much is there in demand that makes a big difference in the price. And there are ways to know what is the supply going to be? What is the demand right now, there it's much easier to understand and so supply and demand is a huge part of understanding futures and how they work. So if you are, you know, if you have a good head on your shoulders, you understand basic economics, it really helps you a lot in the  in stock, you really can't tell, you know, but you have to try to guess, if a stock is gonna go up or down, but you never know, right? stock has wonderful earnings, they have earnings report, they really knock it out of the park, they're making a lot more money than they expected, and the stock goes down. That's totally counterintuitive of what common sense would be okay, if the company is making more money stock should go up. But no stock went down. Or sometimes stock is the company's doing horrible, and they're like, Oh, no, we're losing so much money. Oh, we're hemorrhaging money, but the stock goes up after earnings. So it's really a crapshoot a lot of times. Futures, they don't have that, and they don't have earnings, right? So that's another thing they don't have. They don't have a quarterly report that can mix up your whole trade. There's also no insider information. And any commodity, everybody knows what's going on. There's no insiders that are selling their shares, right? There's no lockup periods. There's no way for the company to dilute shares. There's no way for the company to cut the dividend, because there are no dividends. And there are no earnings surprises. So I just, you know, went through basically four differences between futures options and stock options. Now, futures options is not for everybody. Right? Can you trade them in your IRA? Yes, you can - we'll talk about that on the event. So whatever's stopping you from trading futures options, if you are doing halfway decent at stock options, you should look into futures options. It's not for everybody, I'll get that, you know, but looking into it, it's not gonna hurt you. You might find that you love it, like I did. Alright, so that's the end for this episode. Again, if you have any comments, you have any questions, you can always get me Help@OptionGenius.com. We'd love to answer them. And if you're more interested, check out our website. Thank you for listening. Trade with the odds in your favor.   LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.