Episode 1 of 4. In this series Allen help you understand what level your trading is at on the Option Continuum and exactly how to move up to the next level. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps. Thank you!

Hey there, it's Allen from Option Genius and I wanted to share a thought with you that has really made a huge difference in my life. I can't take credit from this, I learned this from the guy who, well, he didn't even create it, but he's making it famous. And he wrote a book on it called the gap and the gain. So if you want to, if you want to learn more about this concept, that's the name of the book, the gap and the gaing and basically what it is, it's a simple way to change how you think about yourself, and your accomplishments and your future. And so, you know, for me, and I'm getting little personal here, I always thought growing up that I was a big deal, you know, little bit arrogant. And I always thought, hey, I'm special, I'm above average, I'm really smart, I can do things, I have huge potential, I have an amazing potential, I can be whatever I want, I can accomplish anything I want. And it was true. And I think it's true for a lot of people now, you know, I mean, especially if you have all the advantages of growing up in the West, and, you know, there's unlimited opportunity. So if you're watching this, and if you're a trader, then you know, my God, you know we don't have too many things to complain about. Right? We could, but we shouldn't be because there's people way worse than us. So anyway, the my thinking was that, you know, I made all these huge goals for myself first, it was, you know, by the time I graduate high school, I'm going to be a millionaire. That didn't happen. So then I was like, alright, well, I'm gonna graduate college, I would have been a millionaire. That didn't happen. Oh, by the time I turn 30, I would have been a millionaire - that didn't have any there. Okay, and then later on, you know, things out better and things have settled, but then I realized that, okay, you know, it's like, Man, I don't want to make these such big goals anymore. You know, because I started, I started getting beaten up a little bit, you know, it's taking so long my goals aren't, I'm not achieving my goals. And so I started lowering my expectations. And I remember one time I was in a mastermind group, and the idea was, you know, what's, what's your number? How much? How much do your net worth you want to be. And my goal was 2 million. I was like, you know, if I can have a $2 million net worth, and I know that I can easily make 10% on that every year, and I can live off $200,000. So that was it. That was my goal at the time. And then when I got there, the goal changed. And it got bigger, right? So then it was, you know, like 5 million. Then when I got there, I was like, Okay, now my net worth goal is even bigger, and even bigger, keeps growing. It's like a never ending thing where you get your goal. But then you always want more, because well, we're human. And that's normal. Right? I remember when, when I was first starting out trading, my goal was I want to have $100,000 trading account. When I got that, then it was oh, now I need a $250,000 trading account. Then it was like, oh my god, wouldn't it be awesome if I had a $500,000 trading account, and then a million dollar trading accoun? And I think it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. As soon as you hit your goal, you're now your your thinking is expanded, and you're like, oh, man, I want more, I want more. And the thing is that, that goal keeps moving. Right? That end desire, that end thing that we want, it just keeps moving, moving, moving, like kinda like the horizon, like when you're walking, you know, you see, oh, I want to go there to the horizon. But then you keep walking, walking, walking in that goal, the horizon just keeps moving further and further, it is a the more you go, the further further it goes. So you never get to the horizon. And for a lot of people, especially like me and others, it can cause a lot of disappointment, and self doubt and pain, being "Oh, man, I never get my goal", you know, and then you start comparing yourself to other people. It's like, "Oh, man, he got to the goal so much faster than me. And he's stupid. And I'm smart, and how come he got it? And I didn't?", you know, all kinds of self doubt self talk about, you know, what was wrong with me and why I can't do it and all this kind of stuff. And so, you know, I've suffered from this for a long time, cause depression cause serious doubt. And it really hurt my trading. It hurt my business, it hurt. My relationships hurt a lot of different things in life. And we don't we don't even realize how much our thoughts of ourselves are limiting us. Right? And so I read this book, and in the book he talks about, well, you know, this is very common. It's very common for people who are aggressive and highly motivated, and they want to achieve things they want to grow, they want to accomplish things, for them to make these big goals and then keep looking at themselves, comparing themselves to the end result from where they are now. Right? So if I look at myself where I'm at now, compared to where I want to be, it's like, oh, man, I'm not there yet. It's so far, man. I just got so far to go man. It's how long is it gonna take to get there? Why is it taking so long? Oh, man, I'm not smart enough. Look at that other guy. He got there so much faster. All kinds of these self doubts and criticisms creep up and you start hurting yourself. So in the book, they tell you that's very common, that's very normal. But that's not the most productive and best way to do it. So instead of comparing yourself where you are now, to where you want to be in the future, what you should do is you can definitely make goals, you should always be making goals and striving for nothing things. But that's not what you compare yourself to, what you compare yourself to, is, instead of looking forward, you turn around, and you'll look back. So you see where you were before and then you compare it to where you are now. And that shows you your real progress. If you're trying to look at how much progress you're making, you know, don't compare it to where you want to be, compare it to where you were before, and where you are now. And you look at that big, you know, over whatever the things you've overcome, and that will make a total shift in your mind. So for example, I remember in the beginning, when I first saw the ThinkOrSwim platform, you know, I mean, at that time, Thinkorswim was a separate company, and you know, they were a broker, but they came up with this really fancy platform, and it had all these bells and whistles and charts and colors and, and I was totally, totally overwhelmed. And I still remember what it felt like, you know, like, what button do I push? What screen Do I go to? And what tab another nine? What are all these different things here and bells and whistles and doodads and and it's still pretty overwhelming. And I, you know, I still don't use most of it. But I don't have to because I figured out what are the areas? What are the screens? What are the tools that I want to use in my trading, that helped me get the maximum out of that software? And so now I can think back and be like, wow, you know, I was I was so scared of this software. Like, I didn't know how I was gonna use it. And I was intimidated by it. But now I can go in there and two seconds and I know what I'm doing and I can make my trades and analyze trades and, and do my results and everything. And now other people when they see me doing it, they're like, they get our coaching programs, you know, the students are Oh, Allen, what did you do? Oh, can you do that again? And have to remember that oh, yeah, I need to slow down. And I need to do it slowly so they can follow along? Because they are at that starting point where I used to be right? And so we learned it together. But that is you know, looking at that, like, wow, you know, and before when I before I started getting trading, I was really scared. I was learning all these strategies. I didn't know much. I didn't know that much about the markets. Compared to now -- Wow. I've come a long, long way. And I feel so good about myself like man, I didn't give up. I kept trying even when it was hard. Even when there were losses. There were bad years bear markets, crazy markets, a financial crisis, you know, the worst financial thing in the history of the United States, where the whole economic system almost came crashing down. I traded my way through that. Wow and I've come a long way. You know, when you look at, like, I look at my net worth right now how much money I have right now. And it's not where I want to be. It's not at my goal. So I was like, I could be disappointed. Man, you know, I still, man, I saw this guy on TV nd he's making so much money. And he's so much worth and, you know, Bezos look at Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. And, you know, they're worth billions, I'm never gonna be a billionaire. You know? I don't know. If that's my goal, then. That's fine as a goal. But if I keep comparing myself to where I want to be, I'm gonna feel bad. So instead, I turned around, and I looked at, like, where was I about 20 years ago? 20 years ago, you know, I'm 45. Now. So when I was 25, I was broke. More than broke. I was sleeping on the floor, an apartment with a negative $100,000 net worth, meaning I owned nothing. And I owed $100,000, on credit cards and loans and everything. So I had a negative net worth of $100,000. So compare that to where I am today - Wow, that's a huge Mungus crazy, crazy difference. Yeah, it did take 20 years. Maybe I could have done it faster. But so what I did it, that's the thing, and that makes me feel good. That makes me feel good about myself. That makes me feel good about the future gives me confidence, it gives me energy to keep moving and keep going. Because the other way, you know, if you never get your goals, you eventually you just give up, right? Like in the beginning, when I told you that I made all these big goals, I never got them. So I shrunk my goals and I shrunk what I thought I could accomplish. Now, if I had stayed at 2 million net worth, I mean, you know, Option Genius would not be here. I wouldn't be able to I wouldn't be making this video, right? But I extended my goal because I got more confidence in myself because I felt better about myself. So that's that's the message I want to impart. The book is called the gap in the game but I kind of explained basically what it is, right? Instead of comparing yourself to where you want to be in the future. Take a look at where you were in the past. And compare that to where you are now and then feel good about yourself. If you're motivated, feel happy. Look at everything you've accomplished. Pat yourself on the back and then turn around and then head into the future and accomplish everything you want. All right. Take care of trade with the odds in your favor. We'll see you next time. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps. Thank you!

Allen: All right, welcome, everybody. Today I have a very special friend with me, I want to let you know that she is a..I mean, she's been doing amazing, since she got started with trading with us. And the thing that stood out for me was that when she, she was going through our credit spread Mastery program, she did not attend any of the coaching calls, which most of the students think that's like the the highlight of it, because it's one on one coaching, but she did not attend any of them. And it was because that she works a full time job. And you know, at a very stressful I guess, manner of stressful, but it's a very important job for the government. And so she was working full time, she takes care of her family. So she does not like she had a lot of free time to do this stuff. And she's also in a different time zone in Hawaii. So take all those three things together. And it's like, wow, if she can do it, you know, I think everyone that has excuses, it just goes out the window. And I think it goes to show that when you want to do something when you really have a desire that you can figure it out, and then she's gonna tell you how well she did. But you know, I'm very proud of her. She did amazing. And so with that, you know, Lori, aloha. Lori: Thank you for inviting me here. Allen: No, it's wonderful. I'm glad to get you on here. You know, for whatever reason, trading is more male-dominated. And so whenever we see a female in it, it's like, wow, this is awesome. You know, and I think we need more females in the in the trading space. And we do, I do find it that females do trade better than men for whatever reason. You know, like, like, I remember when I was learning how to trade originally, and I got some back testing software. And then my wife would come and ask me, Hey, what are you doing? And I'm like, Oh, look, I'm doing this strategy now. And she, she'd be like, oh, you should do this. And this, and I'd look at her. I'm like, "you know, I just spent like the whole, you know, six weeks learning this thing, and you just come and you just go Blah Blah Blah and tell me what to do. No, it doesn't work that way". And she goes, 'Oh, yeah, let's try it". And I'm like, What do you mean? She goes, Well, you have a testing software, right? I'm like, yeah, she goes, all right. You test it your way, all test it my way. And because I had explained it to her, and I was like, you know, this is a like, I don't know what I think was a credit spread. I was like, you know, this is the trade and we want to just pick where the stock is not gonna go. You know, we don't have to pick where it's going. We have to pick where it's not going, and then make a decent profit. So I think that was the basic intro I gave her. And we tested it for like six months or so. And she beat the pants off of me. And she's like, Oh, this is easy. I don't understand why you hate it. Why can't you make more money doing it? Oh, my God, I was about to cry. But no, but still. So Lori, is your, are you married? I've never asked you before. Lori: Yes, I am. We kind of celebrated our 19th anniversary. Allen: Oh, awesome. Congratulations. Yeah, you don't look that old. Does your husband trade? Lori: Oh, he is actually a financial advisor. But oh, yeah. But his is mostly, you know, mutual funds. You know, trying to preserve capital for his clients and everything. And I wanted to do something that, you know, generated, you know, consistent cash flow, something that eventually would replace my, you know, salary that I get from my 9-5 job. Allen: Right. So what does he think about options in the way you're trading? Lori: He doesn't want to touch options. You know, didn't want to, you know, hey, don't go Forex, don't do options. Don't do crypto, you know, he's, he's pretty much the traditional, hey, let's do mutual funds. He doesn't even do individual stocks, either. It's more of a whole portfolio type of approach that he takes. Allen: Oh, wow. So yes, I can imagine the discussions you guys have had in the past. It's interesting, because when we do have a lot of clients, and they come in, and they're like, Yeah, you know, my wife really, really, she hates this stuff. Like, she won't let me do it. Or she, she doesn't she lets me do it. But you know, like, it wasn't an easy conversation. Oh, wow. Okay. So let's just start off, you know, how have you been trading? How's it going? How your results? Lori: Actually, it was because of your program. It's the first time I've been consistently making money. And I think a lot of it is because you provide the structure. And you know, when you were talking about, hey, there's not many women, and a lot of times they're better traders. I kind of equated my husband when he coaches basketball with the kids and stuff. He said, he always found that the girls did better than the boys because the girls would focus and master the fundamentals more than the boys would. The boys always want to do the trick shots and you know, be all fancy and I think that's what helps you teach the fundamentals of "hey, what to look for, step by step". And that's all I have to do is I just have to follow it. I don't have to try and come up with it. You know, fancy, you know things, it's just simple things to follow. And if I can follow it, I can make money. So.. Allen: That's awesome how long you been trading? Lori: I actually was 30 years ago, I got into mutual funds. So I think when IRAs first started, I was in the Air Force. And people who were higher ranking than me, were giving me advice and saying, hey, you need to start putting away money invest, do your maximum at that time thing was 1500 to 2000 A year into your IRA. And that's where I started, I was terrified to pick the worst mutual funds that didn't make (inaudible) money. And then I think probably maybe 10-15 years later, I just started saying, Hey, let's go do stocks, I didn't fare any better in stocks, I tried options. At one point, you know, I put aside a little bit of money, I lost it all. Because I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't have anybody to, you know, teach me how to do anything. I was just trying to, I was just kind of, you know, muddling my way through and not getting anywhere. So I found the value of finding somebody that can help me, you know, teach me the ropes. And I tried alert systems. And I don't know, I maybe I just kept picking the wrong alerts and I end losing money on the alerts. So.. Allen: But you kept trying. Lori: I kept trying, I see people making money. So if other people can do it, there's got to be a way for me to do it. And so, 30 years later on, I'm finally starting to make money. Allen: Wow. Better late than never I guess. Oh, yeah. You know, some people ask me, oh, can I start this? And can I, you know, can I start making money online or trading? And, you know, I got six months, I'm like, yeah, maybe we'll try to get you there. But yeah, usually it takes longer. But, but that's so but okay, so you're going from a place of where you've tried all these different things, and nothing really seems to be working. And then you go into what we do is like selling options. And that's a little bit more, I don't know, if it's more advanced, but people are more intimidated by that. So how did you make that leap? Lori: I knew you could make more money with Options just because you could leverage what, cuz I have a, you know, small account, you know, less than 10,000. And so I wanted something that was, I could generate money faster, and I knew options was the way to do it. But you know, you also hear on the everybody saying, hey, well, options is risky. And so it wasn't until I heard about yours, where you say, "well, you can do it safely". And so I just, I thought I'd give it a try. And listening to you know, starting off with the passive trading formula, kind of was the first introduction. And I said, yeah, it all makes sense. And so I, I just went all in with the credit spread Mastery program. Allen: Okay. And so what have your trading results been? Since you started that? Lori: Gosh, I didn't do the calculations, but I do have over, I think it's at least 80% win rate. The challenge came in when, you know, my first 20, something trades were all winners, and I had a loser, and I didn't follow your rules on cutting my losses. So that one, you know, kind of really messed up my overall profit. But it kind of highlighted. The other factor that I have to really take into account is the psychology of trading. And I just started reading a book on trading mindfully. And it highlighted all the things that I was doing, I would get overconfident and I wasn't, you know, things, hey, I don't really have to follow that rule or you know, kind of, and so then the losses came and then I get hesitant. Oh, my and that was a huge loss and you know, kind of weary about getting back in. So I kind of had to take a step back, and then I'm back in and I'm doing a lot better now. You know, I'm cutting my losses when I should be cutting my losses. So I think 2022 I think is going to be a really good year. Now that I'm starting to, you know, see what's I can do, where my weaknesses are and then building from there. Allen: Okay, good. So the name of that book is "trading mindfully"? Lori: I think it was "Trade Mindfully" Allen: "Trade Mindfully" Lori: Yeah. . Allen: Yeah, I'll take a look at that. Because, you know, like you were talking about basketball, you got the fundamentals. And you proved it because like you said, you did over 20 trades, or maybe you did the first 20 And then you had one loser. But I remember during our class, you had done well over 30 trades, and you only had like one loss. So I was like, Wow, you did better than I did in that in that three month timeframe. So I was like, okay, she's doing maybe I need to learn from her. So that was really cool, you know? And then since then, okay, so you're still winning. But the the issue was that you just didn't let you just didn't cover the loss fast enough. And so maybe that's why the.. Lori: Yeah, and I had a hard time, you know, after the class, we just started talking about scaling up, it's just really hard for me to pull that trigger of scaling up. So you know, I'm still doing the, you know, I'm just starting now okay, let's, let's go up to, you know, two contracts, or, you know, three, depending on how big the spread is. So I'm starting to feel a little bit more comfortable with the bigger trades. Allen: Cool, and what strategies do you use? Lori: So, right now, mostly, I'm focusing on the credit spread mastery, I'm starting since you know, I'm getting closer to retirement, I'm starting to look at maybe getting some dividend paying stocks into my portfolio. Allen: Okay Lori: And some other long term consistent things. But I, I would actually like to get some, you know, now that I'm starting to get that baseline, I'd like to start getting into something more like swing trading, where I have the ability to kind of take advantage of the movements that in the stock market to make even more money. Allen: Okay, cool. Yeah. You know, the, the idea there were like, so you're talking about, okay, so you're doing credit spreads, you're also going to be, you know, buying dividend stocks. So that's like the second strategy, and then swing trading would be a third strategy. So I would probably advise you maybe to focus on one at a time, you know, you got the credit spreads under your belt. But if we can get a little bit higher in contracts, you'll feel a little bit more comfortable. And then you already have the the passive trading formula program where we all we talk about, you know, the dividend stocks and the covered calls the naked puts, that'll give you a good foundation. And then from time to time, when you do see an opportunity. If one of your favorite stocks is really has dipped below, then definitely you can add the swing trading to that, but like, from what you're telling me, I don't want you to jump didn't get too much and get just overwhelmed and confused about oh, what decision you know how well I use this rule over here and all that kind of thing. So But definitely, you have the ability. And then if you have more time, I'm sure you'll be able to pick it up really quickly. So So in terms of you said you had a $10,000 account. So how well are you up this year, down this year? Do you have an idea? Lori: I'm up this year? Um, Allen: About what percentage? Lori: I am up about 10 15% I think this year, Allen: Okay. And that's even after giving most of it back, right? Because you said you had some a couple big losses that you didn't stop. Yeah. So okay. Because when you were when you were in the class, and you know, you were hitting it, so if you do 30 trades or whatever, and you only have one or two losses, then you must have had a really big loss. So, but yeah, so now you're working on the mental aspect. And that's, that's really crucial, especially for scaling, because I think when it comes to scaling, that's the biggest, because otherwise, it's just numbers, you know, so if I'm trading one, or if I'm trading zero, or 10, is just an extra zero, the trade that I'm looking for is the same, we do the same type of work for that the strategies the same, the return that we're looking for is going to be the same percentage wise. It's just the seeing those extra digits that kind of gets us like, Oh, my God, oh, my God, you know, you're you're a little bit more careful. You're watching it, you might be overtrading. So I like it going from how many trades do you do at one time? Lori: I don't have more than six going at one time. Okay. And I try to spread it out. You know, no, more than a couple every week. I'm getting stuff in there. Allen: Okay. Yeah. So, you know, have you gotten yet from one to or? Lori: Yes, I have. Okay. And that just happened over the last few months. Allen: Okay. And then so now we're looking at what two to three, three to two to four? Lori: Yeah, maybe two to three. Allen: Okay. Good. I mean, see that, like, you know, we tell everybody that once you learn this skill? I mean, you can use it for the next 2030 years. Yeah. Right. So it's, we're not really in a rush to learn it. We're in a, we want to get consistent, and we want to get to the point where we're comfortable. And then once we understand it, it I mean, the numbers they compound so fast, and you've seen it, you know, you've seen it in your own accounts that, yeah, you just do it with and you have a regular just consistency. If you start doing 40 - 50 more percent a year. I mean, those numbers get really big really fast so you don't really need to like Oh, my I got to get it right now. You know, there's no rush. And I know.. Lori: There's gonna be another stock that will meet the criteria that'll fit the pattern. Allen: Yep. Like when, you know, I see some of these ads, you know, from the other gurus. They're like, Oh, yeah, you gotta buy this one stock by this date and this thing is going to happen - are you gonna miss it? I was like, well, you know, I mean, I could just go into the market, and every other week, there's another trade and there's 1000s of them available. So we don't ever have to have that scarcity mindset where it's like, Okay, I'm going to miss it. No, we got time, you know, every month is a new cycle, every week is a new cycle. And there's 1000s of stocks that fit our criteria that we could be trading on. So it's not like there's anything that we're gonna be missing out on. So, you know, even like, if you go, hey, you know, the holiday breaks are coming up, I'm just gonna take my money off the table and not trade for a little bit. And not go risking, because I don't feel like it. You know? So when you're going through this, what are some of the lessons that you learned along the way? Was there anything that would that stuck out to you like, oh, man, I wish I had known this before? Lori: Being patient, what you mentioned before that fear of missing out, you know, I had to it was hard not to chase after trades like wow, this one is, this would be a perfect one. But it had already taken off them just telling myself, hey, there's another one, just be patient look for the right criteria and stuff that meets the criteria. That I think was the hardest part from the psychology of it. And then what you helped was with trade management, right? How much I should put in a trade, you know, trying to help build up confidence. That was really hard, you know, because I went 30 years without really not making money to do and stuff. So trying to get the confidence, hey, that I can actually do this was a hard one as well, to kind of overcome. Allen: You still having issues with that? Lori: Oh, not as much. Now, now that I've seen some success. Allen: Awesome because I know, I know, I dealt with it. And I know others, I've seen it with others to where, if it if they go a long time, without having too much success, you know, maybe they do a little bit in one year. And then they give it back and goes up and down. And then they finally find something that works really well. And they're doing it, they're doing it. And then there's this element of self sabotage, you know, where like, I remember doing this, like, I would have months where I would make make, make, make make, and then I just wouldn't pay attention. I'd be like, all the trades are fine, I'm not gonna worry about it. And I wouldn't even check in on them. And then the market would start getting, you know, crazy. And then boom, big loss. It's like, Oh, what happened? Oh, duh, I didn't pay attention, you know, that I kicked myself. And I'm like, Why do I do that? It's like, oh, it's confidence is all, you know, comes back to all confidence. Most of you know, trading is like 90% of trading is all mental. Yes. So that's a big realization that you have there. So what what were the big? What were the big realizations that you had? Like, what was the any aha moments? Lori: The biggest, aha was my my mindset that, you know, I'm my own worst enemy, when it comes to trading? second guessing myself, especially after, you know, not getting anywhere for so long. You know, I'm thinking, Yeah, can I really do this, you know, maybe it's, you know, times gone, you know, maybe this isn't for me, you know, kind of giving up. But now, I've having a strategy, a structure, that was big for me, right, saying, Hey, this is, you know, and your stuff is so simple, you know, just, hey, look for it going in one direction over a period of time, you know, check the volatility, and hey, pick this delta and, you know, go ahead and put the trade so that you can get your 10% you know, you're not trying to shoot to, you know, make 300% in one trade, it is just keeping consistent over a long period of time. And that's big. Right? I don't I don't need that. 200% and, you know, two days kind of thing. I can do this over the long haul. Allen: Yeah. I mean, that's part of it. Like sometimes people see it for the first time. And they're like, Wow, that's kind of too simple. But, I mean, you know, you look at it over and over again over the years. Yeah, but it's been working. And I think it's continues to do it. So do you have any the stuff that was holding you back originally? Do you think that that you've overcome those obstacles? Now? Lori: They're still, I don't think I'll ever, you know, totally get over the mindset issues. That's just, I think, just human nature that, hey, we're gonna do well, we start getting a little overconfident or if we make a mistake, you know, you're going to be hesitant to kind of jump back in, but at least I'm aware of it now. And I can address it. So.. Allen: That's awesome. So where do you where do you see the future now, like you said, you know, next year you're looking at, it's gonna be a really good year, and then talk about further down the line - what do you think you're gonna be doing? Lori: I think I will end up doing this full time. Allen: Really? Okay. Lori: We're trading you know, part time to get a full time. Allen: Right. Right. Right. Lori: In about 3 years, I'll be able to retire from my job. And then, you know, I can see it where I don't have to worry about, Okay I'm going to have to live on a lot less money. I'll have something here that I can just maintain or even get, have a better lifestyle than I've got now. Allen: Nice. I love. I love hearing that. And then the fact that, you know, most people, they're like, oh, yeah, you know, I'm going to retire and then I'm going to move to the islands or somewhere. You're, you're already there. You're you're one step ahead of everybody else. Cool. Cool. Is there any any words of wisdom you would give to people who are you know, they're still maybe a little hesitant? They're like, No, no, is this? Is this stuff real? Is sounds too good to be true? What would you tell those type of people? Lori: It is real. All you got to do is follow that path that you have laid out. You have made it so simple, and I am so grateful that I came across your program. Allen: Cool. Okay, and then, so I still want to go back to your husband, like, I want him, I want to get him on board. I don't know how we're going to do that. But I want to, because I always bash financial planners a lot. You know, I mean, they they do a great job. But there's some bad ones. And there's something there -most of them are pretty good. And they're they want to help people, but the whole, their whole business model, it doesn't really work for, you know, people who want to do it themselves. If you don't want to worry about your money, you don't want to think about it or learn about it, then yeah, you give it to a financial planner, and you'll take good care of it. But if you.. Lori: That's the people he works with, he doesn't. He says, you know, he's run into people that are do it yourselfers and stuff. And he says, I can't help you there. That's just not his expertise. And so, but you know, he goes, Hey, if you get really good, maybe you can start managing people's money for him or, you know Allen: Yeah. Yeah, we have a few students that have gone that route. So it's doable. But I do know that once those financial planners, when they start seeing it, and they start learning it for themselves, they go, they go nuts, they can't believe it, they're like, well, I'd really like Oh, my God, I didn't Why didn't I know about this earlier? Because they're not talking about it, you know, they're not taught about options and the way their commission structures work. And then they have their whatever the broker dealers or their their business setup, it's too hard to handle all the little options. So it's cool, cool, awesome. Okay, so I think we've already covered like, you know, what was the hardest part was the the mental aspect. Yeah, you're still working on the scaling? So in you're retiring in three years? I think you said, so you're gonna focus on trading a lot more. Do you feel that you have any special skills? Or that drew you to this? Or can anybody just anybody off the street do it? Lori: I think anybody, if you if you can follow simple directions, you can do it. Yeah, it just takes a little bit of practice. And it's great, you know, doing, you know, start off with paper trading. That way you can get to get your confidence that really helped me is the paper trading because you make all your mistakes there. And it'll help you when you actually pull the trigger with real money. Allen: So when do you think you'll feel that you're you're okay with adding some more money to the trading account? Have you thought about that? Lori:  Ah, actually, I have not thought about that. Allen: Okay. Lori: I probably should. Allen: I'm not, you know, that's up to you. I am not licensed to give you financial advise. Yeah, but like, you know, because when when you told me, because first, I had seen your, your trades, and then later on, you told me that hey, I, you know, I want to scale it. So I was like, Okay, sure. And you're like, Well, I'm stuck with this account. I thought you had already probably added more to it, because you had so much success earlier on. Lori: I think maybe when I get more comfortable with the scaling that I will probably start adding more. But it still scares me. Right? Seeing the extra zero trying to go, you know, even when you said two to four, and you know, just okay and then I start to hang a little faster, so.. Allen: Well, yeah, then then you don't do it. You know, it's like, if you can't sleep at night, then yeah, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. And how much time do you does it take on your trading, how much time you spend? Lori: Oh, it doesn't take very long at all, maybe 20 - 30 minutes at the most so in the morning before I go to work.. Allen: Okay. Lori: ..and take a look. Either put some trades in or check what you know, how my existing trades are going to see if I have to manage any of those. Allen: And that includes everything so managing researching. Lori: Uh huh because because you walked us through on how to create a watch list. So I have my watch list and I just go through that you can easily find a couple of trades every day. And so just takes a few minutes to evaluate which one probably would be the best one that's going to get you your profit faster. Allen: Okay, and you're saying you're doing about two a week or so average? Yeah. Okay, so yeah, so everyday, you don't even need to find trades. It's, yeah, it's just whenever you need. Awesome Lori: So a lot of times, I'm just there trying to, you know, checking on my existing trades to, to see how they're doing. So, you know, that could be as quick as five minutes. Allen: And you check in. So okay, so you're in Hawaii time, which is three or four hours behind me. So when you go to work, what time is it? Like the market is going to close in a couple hours already? Is that how it works? Lori: The market closes? I think before lunchtime here in Hawaii. Allen: Okay. So yeah, so just one time while you're going before you're going to work, that seems to be enough. Fun time. Okay. Cool. Yeah, yeah, we have some students a, you know, they, they get, they get, they wake up early, and then they'll check it before the market opens. And then they check it when the market opens. And then they check it, you know, during lunch, and then a couple of times during the day and like, yeah, you're going too crazy, you know, just you need to chill out, relax. Don't make it so stressful. Lori: That's what I like about this system, I don't have to be on the computer all day watching where everything is going. So I can just 20-30 minutes a day at the most and I'm good. Allen: What was it originally, that made you want to get into trading was there are a specific reason or a desire that you had or? Lori: A lot of it is I wanted to be able to generate a full time income part time. I really didn't want to have to Okay, I got to keep getting up, you know, certain hours, do eight, nine hours a day come home and you know, then you got to take care of all the stuff around the house. You know, it's it's tedious after a while, so I wanted a little bit of more freedom more control of my time. Allen: Okay, makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. Yep. Didn't get there. Maybe right? there didn't get there. But the future now he's bright, but you got there eventually. So now the future looks really bright. And now you'll have, you know, probably when you retire when you do retire, then you'll have plenty of extra money to go do whatever you want. Lori: Like if my kids are interested, you know, they're tired of their jobs. And that's something I can pass on to. to them. That may be something they might want to. Yeah, you know, pursue. Allen: Yeah, that would be I mean, could you imagine? It's like, yeah, you know, I learned a little late, but if you learn it now you can you can quit your job years ahead of time, right? That would be like the biggest best gift you could give. Like, forget College, I'm just gonna teach you this. Cool. Okay, any final words you want to share with our viewers? Lori: She said, if, if I can do it, you know, after 30 years of struggling, you know, anybody can do it. You know, if you have the desire, and you're willing to follow the instructions, the rules, you can do it. Allen: I'll say, most said, well, Laurie, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your time. Appreciate your candor and being open about you know, the losses and sometimes people are a little bit you know, they try to they talk about the good stuff, but they don't really share all the all the hard stuff. But you're like, Yeah, you know, 30 years that sucked. And I know you know, you were a little shy, and I do appreciate you coming on you did you know, I'm sure this is going to help a lot of people, you know. Lori: I sure hope so.. Allen: They're gonna listen, they're gonna see it and they're gonna be like, "Wow, I want to be like Lori". All right, appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Lori: Thank you, Allen. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps. Thank you!  

Hey, this is Allen from option genius. And I am coming to you today from Galveston, which is a beach. So I drove down here today took day off, you know, just hanging out, get some time to think, enjoy the weather. It's not that hot, it's not that cold. But then take a look at this when I get here. This is what it looks like. All foggy, everything was fine. The whole day, everything - the whole road here was fine. It took us about an hour and a half to get here. Everything was fine, good here, and it's all foggy, you can barely see too far in the distance. But that's okay, because that gives me time to shoot you a quick video. And today what I wanted to ask you was are you treating your trading as a business? Or are you treating it as something else? Now, a lot of folks when they talk about their trading, you know, they compare it to their job. It's like, oh, how much do you want to make? Well, I want to make as much as I'm making my job. So they compare trading to their job. Now in the job, you have a performance review, right? So the company manager, whatever the boss tells you how you're doing you personally. And if you're doing well, if you're doing badly, it's all on you. And so if you compare your trading to your job, and you say, Oh yeah, this is my job, this is my second job, then it reflects on you, your results reflect on you. So what I want you to do instead is I want you to think about your trading as a business. Now a business in corporate speak, right? If you incorporate, you are not your business, you might own the business, but the business is a separate entity. Right now, I'm not telling you to go out and form a corporation for your trading - that's a separate topic. But I want you to think of your trading as a business. Now, you might have heard the statistics right from the SBA, most companies go out of business within the first few years, almost 95% of them go out of business in the first 10 years. Now option genius has been around for 10 years, or more than 10 years, I think 1314 years now. So we must be doing something right. So that's good. I'm happy about that, that we survived. But when you think of your trading as a business, you understand that not everything goes smoothly, not everything goes perfectly. Right. Now, for example, at Option Genius, we might have a new marketing campaign. And we might launch it and I cost a bunch of money. And I have really high hopes and be really excited about it and it falls flat and it doesn't do anything. Every people hate it doesn't work. We lose money. Ah, man, it's disappointing. But it's not a personal failure. Right? It's something that we tried, that did not work. So big difference mentally, versus "Oh, my God", attaching it the results to yourself personally, versus "Oh, it was something else that we tried, and it did not work. Now everybody knows that a business. There are ups and downs, right? There's yours are you make profit, and there's years that you don't make profit. And in trading, we seem to forget that. We seem to think that we should always be making money, we seem to think that we should always every year should be profitable making money. But in the long run, it's not like that. And so if you think of it as a business, if you have a losing year, that's okay. Right? Because that happens. Maybe something happened differently this year in the economy or whatever that caused your business to lose money. That's okay. Business is still found sound, the the foundation of the business, it's still sound, we're not going to just throw the business away because it lost money. Especially if you'd lost money for a whole year. Right? We'll make it back. We have that confidence. Now, most entrepreneurs and then I think of us small time traders as entrepreneurs, because, you know, unless you're a professional managing other people's money, then you might be like, you know, a big CEO of a Fortune 500 company or whatever, you know, bear yourself to that. Well, most of us, I can compare us to entrepreneurs, you know, scrappy, hardworking grinders, right? We really we enjoy the grind and entrepreneurs really enjoy the grind, they enjoy startup phase, they start, you know, bootstrapping, where you learn, and you try new things, and you see what works and what doesn't work and you adapt, and you overcome. And you really learn from every single mistake. Now, for a lot of entrepreneurs, the confidence that comes from success. So for example, if you're talking to a rich person or a rich business person, they are not confident because they have a lot of money. And this might be counterintuitive, having a lot of money does not give you confidence actually brings you depending on how you got the money, it can actually cause you a lot of anxiety, because you're worried about not losing the money, if you don't know how to make it, right. If it was just given to you, then your whole thought process is I can't lose it, I can't lose it, I can't lose it. Because I don't know how to get more, right. And that's what happens to a lot of people who inherit money or get the lottery, they get it, they can't handle it mentally, it's totally mind blowing. So they lose it all and they can't get back. But as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, if you make the money in the first place, you have that confidence that wow, I made it, I made it right, I did the work, I tried the new things, I took the risk, and it worked. And then if it stops working, or if something happens, and the business goes out of business, and that could happen all the time, they have the confidence that they can get it back, they can make it again, right, because businesses go out of business for all kinds of ways, they might be good for five years, 10 years, and all of a sudden, maybe a new competitor comes and knocks them out. Or maybe the market shifts, or maybe nobody wants that product anymore, or there's a new technology or the government changes the rules or the legislation or who knows what can happen. And this is quite a business all the time. In fact, you know, you look back 100 years ago, let's look at like a 1900, you look at the fortune 100 list, and most of those companies have been around anymore, for whatever reason. So as a business owner, you understand is this goes out of business, you lose money, okay, you get back on the horse, start something else, and you build it back up again. But as traders, we think like oh my god, if I lose my money, that's it, I'm done. I'm done for I can't do anymore, it's a failure, I have to give up, I have to move on, I can't do anything else. That's what is not only limiting to you, but it won't let you trade properly and mentally, that's the wrong way to look at it. So a lot of times we have losses. And a lot of times it's nothing that we did, right? And we lose money. And it might be a big loss, or maybe 100% loss, you might lose the whole account that happens to most people. But if you can get back on the horse, you can do it again, if you've already made the money once, if you already know, hey, I was trading this way it was working, it was successful. But something happened, something shifted. Or maybe I made a mistake, and I lost the money or the business lost the money, right? Not me, it lives in the business lost, then you know that you can get it back. And it's that mental shift, that it's not over when you lose. That gives you the confidence. And so having confidence in yourself as a trader, and your strategy is probably the most important thing in trading, whether it's trading options, or stocks or futures or whatever you're trading, if you've made it once, you can make it again, to many people, they make it once and it works for six months, a year, two years, and then they have a big loss. And they just give up. Well, maybe that's the right thing to do. But if an entrepreneur lost his business, they have a choice, right? They could be like, oh, man, no, I'm horrible. I sucked at a business and my business went out of business, and they'll never get back on the horse. And it's just, they have a fear and they can't do it again. And your life is gonna be miserable, they're gonna be miserable personally, because they're gonna think they're a failure. And financially, they're not going to get back on the horse, and they're not going to recover. So they're going to be resentful, their family's going to be resentful of them -- all kinds of weird stuff. And that's not what you want to be. So think of it as a business. But think that, hey, if I could do it once, I could do it again, again and again. And that's the confidence that you need to develop. And the only way to do that is to get in the game practice, find a strategy that works for you, make it work, and then keep doing it. So think of it not as a personal thing. Think of it as a separate entity. Number one think of your business as separate from you. So it's not a personal indication or of net worth or personal worth, right? It's net worth yeah, sure, you know, as part of your net worth the asset or the account size, but it's not something that's tied to you personally. So if your account goes down if the stock market goes down if your trades don't work doesn't mean that you are a bad person. It doesn't mean that you're a bad trader, it just means that something didn't work, we need to change it, we need to adapt it, we need to learn what didn't work, how to fix it. And then we keep going. We don't just give up. When something bad happens, we change it, and we keep our confidence high. We do it once we do it again, and again and again. And some sometimes, you know, entrepreneurs are like, Yeah, you know, I want to lose it all. Like, if you you've ever heard of this guy called Gary Vaynerchuk. He said that a few times, he said, You know, I wish that I could lose it all. Because I know I get it back. And it's going to be more fun getting it back the second time. Right now, when I have too much money, I can do as many cool things as I want to because there's too risky. But if I don't have anything that I can try anything, and it's all on me, and that what it lives for. So, you don't have to be that extreme. If you have money and you lose it. But I do want you to have the confidence that hey, I made it once, you can make it again. So that's it for now and we'll talk to you again soon. Take care. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

Ex-Financial Planner and 20+Year Trader, Kevin, talks about how to manage your trading and lessons he has learned along the way. Allen:  Today I'm going to be talking with Kevin, who is now a good friend. I've known him for a few months now. And me came into the option genius world a little while back. And he has been a trader for a while. He's done lots of different things worked in the public sector worked in the private sector, very smart man, very intelligent. He keeps me on my toes with the questions that he has. So it's always wonderful. It's always helpful to the, to the other students, because, you know, they get the high level thinking of the questions that he asked, they get the answers to, as well. So thank you for that, Kevin, and welcome to the show. Allen: It's been a pleasure to have you yeah, like I said, you know, you keep me all you kept me on my toes the whole time. So it's like, this is really good, you know, because.. Kevin: You're actually not the first person who has told me that. So that's part of what I do. Allen: Yeah, I think every class needs one person like that. Do you know, and then as a teacher, it kind of, it makes you feel like, hey, you know, somebody is listening. And, you know, you keep pushing the envelope. So it's like, okay, if I don't know something, I gotta go figure it out. Like, yeah, I know, I do that one thing. But why do I do that? I don't know. Let me go and see if you're gonna make it. Because sometimes we've been doing it for so long. It's like, you know, it's just second nature. I just do it and do and do it. And then you're, you know, you and a couple others are like, Hey, Allen go back, "why did you do that?" I'm like, I don't know. I just does the way I've always done it. Let me figure out why we did it that. Kevin: It becomes instinctive and second nature. And sometimes, we forget why we do some of the things that we do. So it's always good to have somebody you know, especially when you're teaching to ask those types of questions, so that you can help other people understand because you've been added, obviously, a very, a lot longer than I have, and other students. Allen: Mm hmm. But you've been trading for a while. So tell me, how did you get started in trading, investing all that stuff? Kevin: Well, I've owned businesses pretty much my whole entire life. And I started, I actually got into investing when I was very, very young. And so it all started with putting out a financial plan that I wanted to be financially independent. And this was right when I got out of college, I want to be financially independent within 20 years. And so I hired a financial advisor to help put together a financial plan and help put together a life plan for me. And so that's really where the journey of investing began. I've always been a saver, so I've always saved money. So that wasn't that difficult for me. And I've always lived within my means and, and so I was able to put away money the old fashioned way, invest it right and had a lot of great people along the way. And, and that's how I kind of got started. And when it came to options, I actually first got exposed through options at a Tony Robbins seminar that I went to event, I'm a big Tony Robbins fan and have gone to nearly all of his seminars and got introduced to options. And so that was back in 1998. And so I was on the buyer side and bought options and had some success. I also, that year lost millions of dollars as well to trading options. It wasn't through anything that I did in the trading process of it is what I, the decision that I made when I held that to call options. So I held 10 contracts for AOL and 10 contracts for Amazon at $15 each. But both were in the money. And both were getting ready to expire. And I wanted to invest in one of them. And I thought AOL had the best opportunity of being in the internet world and creating the internet. And I thought that's the direction we were going and I didn't think that a bookseller, an online bookseller was going to be as successful. Well, not having cashed in and acquired 1000 shares of Amazon, which would have been worth the millions of dollars today, I missed out on that opportunity. And so that was the only the only thing trade that I've ever made that I regret, but I did make some money on it. I think I ended up making like four grand on it. So it was trading near $20. And I had a $15 option, and overall ended up making like 20,000 Plus on AOL. But of course, that pales in comparison when I could have made it Amazon. So anyways, that was my first experience of buying options. So I had some minor success. And when I became a certified financial planner, which I've been for over the last 22 years has been my main business. Then we used options to help hedge my clients' portfolios when they had very large positions. So nearly all my time in the trading business I've always been on the buying side of it and not the selling side. Allen: Interesting, interesting. I have a couple of follow up questions. The first off is most of the financial planners I've talked to, they have no clue about options, they don't want to touch options. They're like, Oh, this is too risky, I don't get paid commissions, you know, for doing options, I don't want to get into it. My, my broker dealer doesn't want us to do it, what makes you get into them? Kevin: Again, when, when I first started, it was the speculation aspect of it. And so I, on a personal side have used it for speculating. And then when I learned and I and I understood options, and who because as you and I both know, options sometimes have a bad connotation, but a lot of people think, Oh, they're too risky. And they're not something that I would necessarily toy with. A lot of times, it's just because you don't understand how options work or their misuse. So options can be used in two ways they can be used as a speculative tool, or they can also be used to hedge a portfolio and use it as insurance. And so I learned both sides of that, and found how important it was, especially as people come out of their careers, and they have very large positions and perhaps, or company stock, maybe they don't want to totally divest of it. But they're concerned that if you know their company, they hold so many shares that if they were to go down in price, they lose a lot of money, and so on in those types of situations, we would buy, or buy puts in the event that the stock were to go down, then we would be able to hedge their portfolio and protect and then they would have protection on the downside. A lot of times I think Allen, people just they're afraid of things that they don't understand. And options- most people are not exposed to unless you really go out on your own. You do a lot of reading and research or get involved in the financial world. Most people don't have that type of exposure to options. Allen: Yep, that's true. That's one of the hurdles that we have to overcome to get people to Hey, can you you know, look up? This is really good. The second question was, so you said when you were younger, out of high school out of college, I don't remember which one, but you said you had somebody help you make a financial plan? And it seems like the plan probably did very well. Would you mind sharing what the plan was or the basics of it? Kevin: Yeah. So putting together a comprehensive plan, as I as a certified financial planner, what I tell people is, it's not just about the money, it's about life. It's about putting together your life dreams and understanding and having a concept of drawing a roadmap where you want to go and make it akin like if you were to take out a boat, a sailboat, and with a sails and with a compass, you can get to your destination and stay on course, understanding that some storms may come along the way. But if you don't have a compass, and if you don't have a sails on your sailboat, you could be drifting out there forever. And so a lot of people really what I found that differentiates people from success or not is, is do they have a plan in place that helps them get to where they want to go. And so as a certified financial planner, that's what I've done most of my career I help people understand and get into in develop and define what their life dreams are, and then put together a comprehensive plan that addresses not only financially what it's going to take to get there, but also how do you address the risks that are involved? For instance, if you were to lose your job, if you were to become disabled, and you couldn't work if you required some type of long term care if if you are the breadwinner, and all of a sudden, you die, Allen, how is it that your family is going to continue to carry on? How are you how will you fund those financial goals? send your kids to college that put bread and butter on the table for your family? So we help address comprehensively all those issues. And also as well as to make sure that we minimize the amount that Uncle Sam puts in his pocket. So we address taxes, how do you invest smartly, so that you don't, you're not overpaying taxes at a later stage in life. So we put all those things together, and then make sure that you have the paperwork and the different things that are in place where for instance, you were to suddenly pass away, what are the directives that you need to have in place? What do you want to have happen? If you lose your you become health challenged? What do you do? Who's going to make health care decisions and other financial decisions on your behalf? So it's taking six areas of life planning put it all together in one comprehensive plan? And, and that's what I've done in my life and that's what I've helped people to do over my career. Allen: Interesting. Okay. Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff. You just mentioned that people need to think about some of the stuff that we don't want to think about, you know, I mean, who wants to think about dying and, you know, getting life insurance to take care of college when I'm not there and all that stuff, but it's all part and parcel of life. So you have to you have to come to terms with it. Kevin: Well then one of the larger risk, especially with younger people, and they don't always think about because younger people think that they're Superman and Superwoman. And if you are all of a sudden get into an accident all of a sudden you had a medical issue that caused you where you couldn't you could no longer work well how are you again going to continue to supply for your family how will you reach your life dreams, and so, a lot of times people don't think about those different pitfalls that can happen in life. And, and so those are the things that you need to plan for. It's not just about making money, it's about also protecting you and your family. And you know, because we can't control always what happens in life, but we can control how we're going to respond. And we can plan for many of those pitfalls. Allen: Exactly. I mean, I remember, years ago, before I got into trading, I started I tried my hand at being a real estate investor. So you know, in those "We Buy Houses" type guys, so I'd run ads and, you know, try to go see people at their homes that were in trying to sell their homes. And most of the time, I realized that people who are in a in a mess, you know, where they're, they haven't made their house payments in a while. It's not something that people want to do, you know, they're not a lot of deadbeats are like, Yeah, I'm gonna try to stiff the insurance cover the mortgage company. No, they, they literally want to stay in their house, they literally can't not pay the mortgage. And I'd go to these people's houses and you know, they wouldn't have electricity, the bills would be piled up. And they're like, you know, I don't know what to do. And I'm like, How'd you get in this situation? It's like, well, everything was fine until I got hurt. And that was the same story I heard over and over and over again, it's like, yeah, everything was great. You know, we are we were living paycheck to paycheck or whatever. We had some everything was good until we got hurt. And then all of our savings were all depleted, because I couldn't work and we had all these medical bills and all this stuff. And now, now I can't go back to work. My family's trying to make ends meet. But the bills are just too much. And so they ended up in foreclosure. And I found that was the number one reason all foreclosures in this country is just, you know, people getting hurt and medical bills and all that it's not because they don't want to pay it again. Kevin: It's the the unexpected, and I think many people that have experienced the Coronavirus. This is a perfect real life time that we're that we've been going through where all of a sudden this pandemic strikes and businesses shut down. People can't go to work. So the question is, hey, you know, aside from getting some assistance from the federal government, which has been helpful, the people that have really been able to make it, they have cash on the side. And that's another thing as a certified financial planner, we talk about, we don't know, and we cannot predict everything that is going to happen in life. And we wouldn't be having this conversation two years ago, how I mean, what would be the probability that we would be able to predict that in a few months, we're going to be going through a pandemic, that's going to shut down nearly our whole entire economy, and where people are going to get sick, over 725,000 people are dying. I mean, you would think that we were writing, we would be writing a script for a Hollywood movie, but we've all lived through it now. So it's important, so much important, even before you start putting money in the types of things that we're going to be talking about in investing that you have an adequate cash reserve of six, I recommend six months to a year of your fixed income. But to aside for the events of an emergency, or maybe it's just for an opportunity that comes along, maybe maybe it's an investment in a property that you want to make or car or something else that comes along or a great trip, you want to take your your family on, you need to make sure that you have money in the bank that's liquid, that's not subject to market volatility that you can tap into, to help you get through those difficult times. And sometimes I think some of the people in I distinctly remember, especially back going into 2007 and 2008. Before though, you know, we have the housing bubble and everything that blew up financially, everybody, you know, real estate was so hot. And so everybody wanted to put a larger portion of their money in investments in real estate. And as I tell people, if something happens, you have an emergency or something, or you need money, so you are not going to be able to chisel out a brick from your house or your investment property, take it to the bank and pay the bills or pay whatever, you know, you need to have liquidity in your portfolio. And that's the first thing that people should start saving for is to make sure that they have adequate cash for, for again, for emergencies or opportunities. Allen: I agree with you. I agree with you. I mean, it's hard for some people to get six months to a year. But eventually I think you definitely have to get there. Now you mentioned the pandemic. And I don't know if it was because we were lucky or what it was. But as a options trader, the way we trade I mean, I've had amazing in the pandemic, it's like it was the most amazing time, because made so much easy money. I mean, it was like I couldn't I, if I wanted to draw it up, you know, like, how could I make it any better? I really couldn't. It was just for people who were already trading and who already knew what to do. It was the most perfect setup. And then there were other people that got involved a little bit later that really understood learned it and they were able to, you know, they'd have to be there from the beginning. They were able to to write it up as well. And so it was I've seen that I've seen people that have been devastated by the pandemic because of different reasons. They weren't ready. They weren't stable. And then there are other issues as well. But for the people that were able to take advantage of it. I mean, this was this was amazing opportunity. And who knows, if we're ever going to get another one like that, again, maybe we will. I mean, you know, eventually markets will come down, they'll crash. And then there's another opportunity and you get back up. But I do remember, there was one guy that I don't know, forgot who he was some billionaire on the TV, and he was like, This is the greatest buying opportunity of your lifetime. And I was like, really? I mean, you know, I lived through that financial crisis, that was a pretty good opportunity to I don't know, this one's gonna be better. It might be I haven't looked at the numbers. But yeah, it's been, it's been an incredibly amazing opportunity for us. So.. Kevin: Well you with your knowledge and other people that have a lot more experience, if you've dealt you, you've gone through the different cycles in this type of a trading market. So you have a greater for you even ever, I mean, I've been through different trading cycles, but not through the through options trading. So in the in the spreads, and how markets treat those and where your successes are. So that's the one thing that as we get into this is part of the learning process and experiencing is adapting to different to different markets that you that you get into. I mean, it was a perfect time for me when I started doing this. I mean, I got into this because I was in the middle of a career transition. I had, like I mentioned, I own businesses my whole entire life, and just got finished with a 10 years of doing the public service with inside my local government for our community. And, and that was an awesome experience. So the question was, what do I do now? Do I go back and open up another business? Or do I go back and perhaps get a job in the public or private sector, I really had an interest in getting a leadership role, and a nonprofit organization, because that's one realm that I hadn't worked in yet. So I was looking for a full time job and in fact, actually up until just about a month and a half ago. But then when I started looking at and discovering the potential as going back and utilizing some of my experience in the investment world, as well, as, you know, my prior option experience, this was a great timing for me to to enter into this type of field that gives you incredible flexibility and unbelievable earning potential. Allen: Mm hmm. Yep. So you've been in finance for 20-30 years? What got you started selling options, because you were buying options earlier? What happened to make you switch? Kevin: Well, I was going back to what I had known. And so this was in January, when I was deciding. So as I mentioned, as looking for a full time job, and then at the same point in time, was doing a lot of reading research on what type of business I could potentially do. And just started seeing a lot of ads about options. And I said, "Oh Yeah, I remember I used to trade those". And I did okay you know, had good times and things. So I started actually I said, I'm going to get a look and see if I can find the best Options Trading coach that I can find and get the best service potential so that I can get back into this. And I figured if I had a pro that I could trade with, or they could show me a system that could produce potential consistent income. And I said that that might be something to consider. So I found one and he had worked for out over 25 years in the CBOE and was really energetic. I read that a lot of research about him look like he was very successful. So I signed up for the service. And you know, he touted that they had over 74% success rate ratio, which I said, that's not too bad. And so he started getting back in where we would have every single day we would meet online, and he had scanners and things that were set up. And then he would call out which when a certain thing hit the scanner, he would call out what to go, who to invest on. So you're online, and you're investing with him. And I did that and for a little while you're having success, but then also, you were having one's trades it didn't work out. And so by the the bottom line is, is to make a long story short, within a couple of months, I started looking, I said, you know, I'm having some success, but it's not really enough success. By the time you look at the trades that were winners in the trades that were losers, you weren't cutting coming out that far ahead where you feel like you could make a really decent income doing this. Kevin: And so then I started researching more. And I started, I came across the concept of selling options and your service was one of the first things in Option Genius that I started reading about. I said, Well, this is interesting, because you're touting over 80% of the options, which is you know, what should I found to be true expire worthless. So I said perhaps I'm just on the wrong side of the equation. And so I subscribed to your service and there's a couple other services that I found that sent credit spread recommendations and started doing more research around this and I said this is really really interesting. So I did not start off with your service right away. I started getting your emails continue to read I got your books and and read what you had written. And I started entering the trades that have been recommendations I was getting from other services and again, you know, in the beginning, you obviously all you're seeing is the premium coming into your account. And so when you're looking at, hey, you know, instead of paying for stuff, I'm getting money inside my account. I said this is a pretty good deal. But that was true until you got into the expiration time frame, when some of the contracts that you were in, weren't going so well. And so those particular services while they told you what, when to enter, they didn't tell you when to exit. And so I'm thinking I said, you know, some of these positions aren't doing so well. And and so again, I did that for a couple of months. And I said, Well, you know, this is again, another mixed bag. And I said, let me try to before I give up on this, let me try one more time, let me reach out and let me get engaged with Option Genius and see what they can do. Because I wanted a way that I liked what this potential what the selling options could do. But I wanted to see if I could increase my probabilities of success, which you touted through your service. And so that's when I signed up for option genius and your services, and then eventually rolled into the Credit Mastery program, which I just, it's just been absolutely amazing the amount of difference that has made and the success of my trading. Allen: Awesome. Yeah, because I remember, when you joined, you had told me that, hey, you know, I'm part of this service and this service, and I'm getting this trade and that trade, what do you think about this trade? And I'm like, Man, I don't know if they're, if they're giving you a trade, I don't know what I don't know what they're thinking, I don't know what their plan is, or anything, I can't give you any advice on that. I can show you what I'm doing. And then if it works great. So I remember that I had to kind of, you know, like you were heading in different directions and had to kind of like grab, you kind of like by the shoulders and kind of pull you over and be like, can we focus please over here? It was very interesting. It was fun. Kevin: I would have services that you would get three to four trade recommendations a day. And I guess maybe where I got confused, where recommendations, the ideas and I say, Well, this is pretty awesome. I said they're given and I'm, I guess I had the expectation that these were actual recommendations that they're saying that you should do. And so I always did a little bit of homework around that. And I would look at the charts. And a lot of these were smaller companies. And I guess, really, I wasn't really looking at the technical aspects and the things that you teach in your course, I was looking at number one, that the amount of premium that I was generating that was going into my account, I'm just like, wow, I can make, you know, 16%, 17%, 20% on this deal, and there's been some will come across like 25%, I didn't think about the risk aspect of it. And so then I would pull it the company do a little bit of research and said, Oh, man, that stock has been hammered that, you know, that's really it's been trading down. I said, it's got to go back up. Well, some of these trades, you'll get into, they didn't go back up. In fact, they continued to go down, trades would get in trouble. And I'm thinking maybe this thing will just continue to go back up. And so I started living on hoping some of these trades, I said, this thing has to go up at some point in time. Well, some of these trades didn't. And so I lost, I max loss on some of these trades. Some of these other ones, I lost 50 and 60%. And that's when I started think I said, Man, either one, I'm doing really something wrong or two, I said, What I'm entering the trades I'm entering, then perhaps maybe I shouldn't be in. And now those are the types of things that I learned when I started going through your program. The other service, I had no rules, there were no rules, there's nothing that really taught you the art and what you should be doing when you're trading spreads, you're just giving you what those recommendations are, or ideas as I've learned to call them before. And now and and we didn't have the rule set up. So now with through your program, there are definitive rules. I know now when I can look at a chart if whether something is a good idea or not, if I wanted to sell puts on something, and they're not trading, above all the three moving averages that you talked about, I immediately discard it. So I'm able to really now take ideas, even where they're from other services, your services or my own research, and immediately at least be able to spot things that I need to look at further. And so your service has really provided an amazing education to me and again, is is really increased the probability of having a successful trade. Allen: That's awesome. That's great to hear. Because you also have to look at it from the business point of it of, you know, when you're running a service, you're just giving trades and you're trying to collect that monthly, you know, the monthly subscription fee, you know, or maybe yearly or whatever it is, but you have to keep people engaged enough to be able to keep getting them to pay you over and over again. It's a tough business and you're not going to share all the secrets and all the things if they even know any secrets, because a lot of these guys I know them, they run the you know, they're marketers and we run into each other we met you know, we talk at different marketing conventions, and they're more interested in you know, how can I get more subscribers or how can I make more money per subscriber, then how can I do better trades because they know that You know, they can use probabilities and they can talk a good game. And so for a while the trades will do good. But eventually they're gonna blow up, eventually, it's gonna go down. And so the only thing they have to do is shut down the service. And then a few months later, they come in, open up another one in a different name, different website, and they start all over again. So it's you know, they just go from one to another, like when we started years ago, I can probably I remember at that time, I made a list of all the other competitors, you know, everybody who had a service who was given trades, and out of like the 50 of them that were at there at that time, there's probably two of them left, you know, and now there's like, hundreds of them, because everybody figured out "Oh, yeah, if you just say, high probability people jump in, and all you have to do is sell a high a low delta option". And it might work out most of the time. It's like, yeah, it's a little bit more to it than that. And that's why I wanted to get into it, where if you're a person who wants a membership, and subscriber and trades, you know, that's one type of person. But if you want to go further and be like, Okay, I want to actually do this for myself, I want to be in control, then you need more of a coaching, you need more of like, these are the rules, this is how we follow it and step by step by step. So that's why that's the program that you are in, I'm glad that you were in, and I'm glad that you've, you know, it worked for you. Kevin: Well, and again, it's not even being able to recognize good trades, or one, it's one part of the advantage of the program. But equally important is the risk management aspect of it. And also knowing when you need to exit a trade. And that's what I also had found and had been frustrating before, some of the positions that I had, I thought, once you got into the credit spread, you know, you ran into the end of expiration. And so some of these positions in the beginning would go in, they would do extraordinarily well. And they would, the price would continue to go up in the stock, and then all of a sudden, something would happen. And I would lose, you know, the stock would come tumbling down, and then my game would end up turning into a loss. And so being able to manage the risk and knowing when to get in and when to get out is equally important. And I also was- the mindset when I started, I said why would I ever want to exit a position when I would have two or three weeks left? And the option is so far out of the money that you know, the probability it's going to fall is very minimum. And why would I want to spend extra money on commissions and give up a couple $100 When I could just stay in it and it would expire worthless, and I would collect the whole premium? Well, again, you'll learn from experience that markets can really whack you and your positions can go down. And it is a real gut punch that you talk about. When you are on a when you're in a winning trade. And you have made your 10% Target to all of a sudden have that reverse and have actually that winning trade turn into a losing trade. And so being able to get out when you make your 10% as you prescribe. And then also making sure that you are exiting in a position that's not working when you're hitting the 25 to 30% that is really what's made the larger difference, where I've been able to increase my success ratio when I started with you, which was roughly about 82%, I was now up over now with your service about 88%. But the larger differences is that my losing trades, the amount that I'm losing is much smaller than when I was trading before. So therefore my profits have increased, because I'm getting rid of the bad trades and securing my profit and the trades that are doing well. Allen: Yeah, I mean, it does take time to learn those and you know, it's great if we give give it to you and be here this and this but it's easier said and listened to then actually done. So you know, the the fact that we have to we have to drill it in over and over and over again. It takes time and like you said sometimes you're gonna it's gonna reverse on you and you're gonna feel it. And that will be a big lesson in itself. So now, okay, so when did you get started with I think it was March, April. I think you guys started with us? Kevin: I signed up in April, your class started mid, mid May. Allen: May. Okay. All right. So how have you been doing in terms of returns? Kevin: I'm averaging about last month was a really tough month. But on average, it's been about 7 to 8% with all my costs and my losses considered together. Allen: So that's really good seven - eight months consistently and about how much time do you spend on it? Kevin: I am actually doing this full time. So up to last month of about a month and a half or so ago. Like I said, I was part of my time was also looking forward, you know, still looking for work. And then I, at the end of your program, I concluded that I believe that I could do this full time. And so full time for me now is I'm a four to six hours a day. And part of it is because I'm just I really love doing this. And so I'm always looking for for different types of investment opportunities, and so I'm always reading and researching on the positions that I'm that I'm holding, my computer stays up throughout the day. So I'm always looking for that time frame of where I might be able to, to get into another position, or to do research and things that I need to know about market conditions. So it's become a love and passion for me. Allen: And you've also told me that you also have a lot of positions on at one time, right? Kevin: I do. And so my average amount positions that I'll have, I mean, the most I've ever had on one time are 40 positions. And that's actually before I came here, as well, that's because I was taking all of the ideas and implementing. And so now, now anywhere between 20 to 30 positions I might have on but one of the things that I found and that you had taught, and when I learned about the importance of of cashing out your winning positions, when you hit your 10% profit, is that that frees up your capital to be able to invest in another opportunity. And so that's sometimes I'm able to put on even additional positions, because I have more freed up capital, because I've taken money I've cashed in and taking money off the table. And so yeah, anywhere 20 to 30 positions a month, but I've never I've never maxed out as far as the amount of margin and, and the cash that I have on my account. I'm always very mindful that I because I don't know what's going to happen, especially with these with the way the markets are trading today. I don't know what's going to happen when all of a sudden we have a larger downturn. And so I'm very mindful about the amount of margin and positions that I hold considering the current market conditions. Allen: And how much are you trading this - in terms of.. Kevin: At first it started, it was 2500. And then I moved up with to 5000, and then at 10,000. And now this is one of the things that I'm really starting to evaluate where I wanted to be position-wise, my goal is monthly income of about $10,000 a month. So I have roughly about $425,000, of what we call buying power. And that includes cash and stock positions that total of about $650,000. So I'm conservatively and I feel like I am on the track. And I'm able to conservatively generate from that about $10,000 per month and what I found and if people are wondering, well, how much do I need to start with? What I have found by the time you include your your expenses, and by the time you include your your losing positions, you have to start out with a number that you want to generate per month. So if you were to take that number and divide that by 0.5, that's where I think, the amount of money you should have in capital to start. So say for instance, you want it to generate $1,000 per month, depending upon if you're talking about cash and stocks, or just cash only if it's cash only, divide the $1,000 by 0.5, and that'll give you where you need to start. Allen: So that's 20. Kevin: Yeah, that's about 20,000. If it's if you have a mixture of stock and cash divided by a 0.25 so somewhere between 20 to $40,000. And people ask, what's the difference? Well, if part of what you're trading on are securities, that's only in their marginable securities, that's you're only going to get 50% trading power and most of those positions, it does vary. So and that's another thing that you need to if you're going to be, if you don't have all cash to trade with and I'm using TD Ameritrade Thinkorswim and you're using securities and I transfer it in security. So my account, I started out of 50,000 and then ended up bringing in some of my other securities. So I could use that as leverage. Well, some of the securities I brought over, were not marginable in that account. And so it didn't give me any buying power. So one of the things you need to talk with with your broker is how the securities you're bringing over if you're going to be using stocks to to make sure that they're marginable. And so that's what I have found so far has been a pretty good conservative range as far as what to start with. I need to first start with you have to know what you want to generate income per month. Allen: Right I mean, that could be your end goal. It doesn't I don't know if you have to start off with that much because I you told me okay, you're trying to make 10 Gray a month. That means that you need 400 on your, you know, at 0.25, right? So, for somebody who was just getting started today, and they're like, Yeah, you know, eventually I want to get there. You know, they don't need to they don't need the whole amount right now. And then that's including so you're saying 0.25 because.. Kevin: 0.025 Allen: 0.025 because the return on the stocks is going to be a little bit lower than the return on the options, right? Kevin: You're well, if you put security stocks in your account, you don't get the full buying power. Okay, as I mentioned, my buying power is roughly about 425,000 and that's with a total combined mixture of cash in securities at about 650,000 into an account. So some of them are cash secured, and some of them are against marginable securities in your account. So that's why I say if you for instance, one of the generate that income, you don't have any cash, and it's all stocks and all securities that you're writing off of, you need to lose the 0.025, because by the time you look at your expensive your expenses and your reduced buying power, that's probably about where you're going to be at as far as the ability, the amount of money you're able to conservatively generate on a monthly basis. Allen: Okay, so how does the return calculate into that? Kevin: I look at, if we look at that, that you start with 10%, that that's the goal that you're making on each investment. But I have found by the time you end up calculating expenses for trading, and also countering your losses, conservatively, it's roughly about 0.5 so you cut.. Allen: So 5%? Okay. Kevin: 5%. That's again, being conservative. And so again, you reduce that further, if you don't have cash. Allen: Oh, because you're using margin so you have to, okay.. Kevin: Pay 50. So to look at margin is 50%. So cut that five and half and point point oh, two, five as a ballpark. Allen: Okay, so are you only doing spreads with that 400? Or are you doing other strategies as well? Kevin: I'm primarily 98% are credit spreads that I'm doing, and I still am with my other service, I still daily I am on those calls. And I will, I will look at some of them, I look at it. And yeah, you know, this is a good opportunity. And that provides a little bit more of excitement into the day to because you're you're dealing in markets that are very, very fast moving, and that you have to be able to get the recommended trades in immediately. Because when you're buying the call you what we're doing is we're following institutional money. So these are people that you know, huge institutions that are making big bets, and mostly on the call side on certain stocks. So we use the concept of follow the money. So if there's a lot of big money that's going into particular, they're buying calls on something, we are making a larger assumption that they know something that perhaps we don't, and you and I both know that there's insider information that's exchanged, and that there are institutional and very large investors that may hold information that you and I may not have access to. So when we see those types of trades come across the scanners, that's when we decide to take a position the same exact position that they're taking. So we have, we have an entry amount, and we have an amount to exit on. And if you don't get in that that entry amount, then you don't take the trade. Allen: Okay so that's what takes most of the time during the day? Kevin: No that's usually done for about an hour and a half Allen: hour and a half. Okay.. Kevin: Then I go back into my personal research in the longer term for the credit spreads. And so and then, so I'm doing that, and I have lists, I mean, the I mean, one of the great advantages of your program is that you gave us a list of about 180 stocks. So I have that list I built upon that list from my own research. And I keep a running list of stocks that I am watching, primarily, because one of the rules that we that you discuss, and that I subscribe to that you don't enter in a position where there are earnings coming. So I if there's a chart that I like, and a stock that I like, and there's earnings coming up, and I can't get something before that, that goes on the list. And then at that the the day after they report their earnings, and I'm looking at and see what's happening in the stock and starting to make a decision if I want to get into something now, or if I want to watch and monitor it a little bit further. So by the time if you do this for a while, if you're doing that, your list get can get quite extensive. So I have different dates when I'm visiting different parts of my lists. Allen: Interesting. So now Okay, so you. So you're okay, so I thought that your trading journey was gonna be a little bit longer. But you started really, in January of 2021. And in about four months time, you became consistently profitable four or five months? Kevin: Yeah, I think it was helpful that I obviously understood options coming into this. So I have that part of the learning curve. When I got into this, I gave myself six months up to a year to decide how things were going to go. And like I said, at the same point in time, I was still actively seeking employment, as you know.. Allen: But now you've given up on that? Kevin: Oh, well. I really have because I this is, you know, of all the years that I've owned businesses this you have provided probably the simplest and turnkey business that anybody could ever have. This business, all I need -- I have no employees to deal with. I have all the flexibility in the world. When I want to go on vacation, we schedule more vacations. I take my laptop computer with me spend maybe a couple hours in the morning, less than when I usually have just the monitor the things that I've got and look and see if there's anything that I need to, to get into or out of, and that's it. You take this business wherever you go, I can't think of anywhere else where you have control over your income, what you make the hours that you work, I'm not worried about the Coronavirus, I'm not worried about anything other than communicating with, you know, doing my research and then having fun communicating with the market makers and, and we give a little fun because I'm not like you I can be patient. And so I'll put in bids for things and see and see what happens. And we've had fun that way as well. So and I really love it. I mean, it really has created a world of freedom, both financially and also with my family. And so I just haven't found another business, if I can do it continue to maintain that and not having to worry about all the other employment hassles. And worry about a boss having to worry about employees having to worry about meeting payroll, all I'm worried about is is my trading and and making sure that my family is financially secure. That's a lot less stress that's on me. Kevin: And that's one of the things that that I've done. And then I'm developing now is the success for my trading that I'm doing. I'm creating my paycheck for next year. And so I'm not, I'm at a point now where I am not going into my trading account, to put bread and butter in a table to pay the bills, I am exceeding what I needed. And I'm creating my paycheck for next year. So at the end of this year, I will look at all the profits that I have. And that I've made and then create my paycheck for next year, I'll put that money and a an a very ultra short bond fund or a secured fund where I'm earning a a three to 5% in interest, and then pay myself into my checking account and my paycheck every single month. So then going into next year, I'm prepared. And I'm not worried I'm not making a trade because I have to make a living. And that's what I think the one of the important messages are is that if you're going to do this full time, it's helpful if you are already financially secured or you have a spouse, or you have savings that can help you transition into becoming a full time trader. If you are at the point where you feel like you need to make a trade to pay the bills, then that's when I think you could make trades that might not be so suitable, or that might go bad because you're entering into to a trade just to generate a premium. And just to generate generate that income. But if you're in a position where you know, every single month that the bills are going to be paid because that paychecks coming into your account, you're not as concerned about putting on the volume of trades, you're concerned about putting on the right trades, and then you're working towards building the paycheck for next year. Allen: Yeah, this was something this was like really big that you you share with me. And I was like, oh my god, yeah, you gotta you gotta share this, what do you call it, sorry? Kevin: I call it the pay forward plan. And that's what we need because you're you're setting yourself up and you're getting a paycheck every single month, and you just have that and at the same point in time, that money is also earning interest. And so you're getting dividend income off of that, but you don't have that pressure that how am I going to pay my bills that you have to do at the end of the year? Look at the profits, make sure that you but you've accounted for the taxes that have to be paid on on those profits, assuming that this is coming from a taxable account, and then take out those taxes and then that's paid on your upcoming tax bill. And then you're getting a paycheck every single month. Allen: Yep so I want to I want to recap this for people just to because one of the things one of the hardest things is when you go from you know, just regular trading and having another income to going okay, I want to do this full time. One of the biggest problems and the biggest mental headaches and and hurdles people have is, hey, you know, my expenses for the month are like, you know, six, seven grand, I need my trading this month to make six, seven grand so I can pay my bills, and like you said, it's the wrong way to think about it. So what you said was, you know, you have an income another source, but you take whatever your profits you're making now and then you put it into a interest bearing account for next year. So you know, how much money is in the account so you know that okay, all my bills are gonna be paid for so that you don't have that stress of having to perform and having your trades to have to work out next year going through it month by month by month, right? Kevin: Yeah, and what I'm doing right now is I'm keeping all and this was at first I was going to take in monthly the monthly profits and take put that in my checking account and as I went along, and knowing and looking at the uncertainty the markets, I decided to keep everything into in my trading account that I was making until the end end of the year. So that way, you know, when you're at the end of the year, you know, everything has been settled, your contracts are settled, you know how much money you have made, and what you can then allocate. That is also an advantage to keep it in your trading account for the year, because as you're building up money, that's obviously giving you more purchasing power as well, too. And so, as you have successful trades and losing trades, then they'll go ahead and wash out each other. But what you do is your record, I'm doing the reconciliation at the end of the year. And so at the end of this year, at the end of December, December 31st, I will look at what I have made, and then make a determination of how much I'm going to take out of my trading account, and put into this other investment and do create my monthly income for next year. Allen: That's awesome. Yeah, it just takes once you have once you know your bills are covered, or at least part of they're covered, you know, because I know a lot of people a lot of traders are like, you know, I have to make this trade work. And that's when you have to do something, that's when you lose control, you're not in control anymore, the market is gonna dominate and emotionally you're out of it, and you're gonna lose, it's just, it just, it could happen. Kevin: Not only that, you end up taking substantial risks. And, you know, if you feel like you have to make six or 7000. That's why it's important that you have a realistic understanding going into this, of what you can generate off of your account. Because if you're expecting to generate six or 7000, and you might have 50,000 in your account, well, I'm thinking that that you might be very disappointed, or you could take risks that you should not be taking risks as you're trying to generate premium to create that six or 7000. So that's what I said, the first thing you come into this with is having an idea of what you want to make. Now again, as you mentioned, it could not this, maybe it's not the amount that you're going to make today, you can build up to it, that's fine. But first, make sure that you have the amount that you need coming in in a month that can generate the bread and butter that you put on the table to support yourself and your family and so then you can build up from that. And that's why if you use that formula, that you know, $1,000 You know, if you want 1000 A month, divide that by 0.05 or 0.25, and that'll give you the amount that you can realistically, you realistically should have in your account to generate that type of income. Because realistic expectations, I think are important cuz I think people could look at this. And many times, I've received solicitations that look like you can bet the sky's the limit on what you can make selling options. Well, maybe that might be the case, but the risk that you're taking, could easily wipe you out. And if you don't follow the rules, and if you aren't conservative, and you don't do the things to make sure that you are having a highly probable success on your trade and you're breaking all the rules just to try to generate premium, you could end up broke really quick. Allen: Right. So you're saying basically another way to say it is that two and a half to 5% returns per month is a good target to aim for in a conservative manner doing options trading? Kevin: It should be used to determine about how much you need to have in your account and generate a certain amount of monthly income. Right. As people always I hear that question I know in the class, you know, people just start and say, well, Allen, how much do I need to get started? Well, again, it really has to start with us have some type of income goal to begin with. And so I have found it to be a pretty realistic tool as far as what you should have in your account to generate a certain amount of monthly income. Allen: Yeah, that's another way to look at it. You know, to me, if somebody asked me that question, I don't look at it in the fact that, okay, you need an income goal right away. I would say that, okay, so this is like a skill, like bike riding, where I want you just to get on the bike and be able to pedal and we can take off the training wheels. So I don't care if you're going 100 miles an hour or whatever. That's the goal, eventually you'll get there. But right now I just want you to be able to pedal. Kevin: I would agree with that. I just think some people think, Oh, if I've got 10 grand in my account, can I go ahead and make three to $4,000 a month? And I'm saying no. You know, you might be taking that 10 grand may disappear really quickly. And the type of risk you're gonna be taken if you want to generate that type of thing. Allen: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, we've had people email me like, well, you know, you say you can make 10% But that's too little. I want to make more I wanna make 20%. Can you help me? I'm like, nope. Maybe I can help you do it once. Maybe. Kevin: That's what I think the answer is yes, you can help them generate 30 to 40%. But the question is, is will they be able to keep that in their bank account or their bank account quickly evaporate? Allen: Exactly. Yeah Kevin: I think the the question is, is can you help them make 30 or 40%? Yes. Can you help them keep 30 or 40% in your bank account? Probably not. Allen: No, no. Doing it over and over again, consistency is the thing right? You got to be consistent. So okay, so when you started with us with the Credit Spread Mastery program, what were some of the or what was the one major thing that was your biggest challenge in implementing, and actually getting it done? Kevin: I think implementing and pushing the button. And that continues to be the challenge, as I say, as I look at the scaling, getting comfortable making that first investment, because when you haven't done it, and, and I had a little bit of comfort, because I had successes with some of the other services that we talked about earlier. But again, having the comfort level of being in the confidence to be able to say, to enter into a trade. And that's what I tell people I said, I said, I think that the hardest thing to overcome is that confidence level and that's where you just have that's why it's important that either you start out paper trading so you can start seeing some of the success and then starting small to build up that into that. That was the hardest thing for me. And then also is is changing my philosophy. You know when you when you talk about the rules when we're selling puts it has to be above the all three moving averages I'm looking at I shouldn't be entering something when a stock is at its lowest price, not its highest price. So it took me a little bit of time to wrap my thinking around that. And to understand that we're looking at the momentum because I'm a bargains are when I'm when I have my long positions of stock, I'm looking for stocks to hit bottom, I'm looking for good stocks to greatly reduced in price not to invest in something that's at the top of the game, I call it I call it the American way of investing. Americans seem to like to invest at the top and then sell at the bottom. So I always tease clients that that was the American way of investing, we want to do the opposite, we want to get in at the lowest point and then sell at the highest point. Well, that's it's kind of like a contrarian theory here for me, but.. Allen: Yeah that works. But for different strategy. You know, if I were if I was like, Okay, I want to do naked put, then I do exactly what you said, you know, it's like, hey, when it's going down, it's a good strong company. And that's what we advise in our, in our other program, the passive trading formula, it's like, what we want to do is we want to find good, strong companies that we don't mind owning for, like 100 years. And when we sell puts, that means that you know, the stock has come down a little bit, we can get them cheap, we can get a discount on it, and we get paid for waiting. So for that strategy, yeah, it works great. Credit spreads? I want to know what the stock is going to do. Right? I want it to tell me very clearly that, hey, I'm going up going down going sideways, and then based on that news, then I will go ahead and play with it. If I don't know what it's gonna do, I don't want to take the risk. And sometimes, you know, people, you can get as complicated as you want with it with the technical analysis, Support-Resistance. And if you can add that stuff to it, then that's great. If it helps, but it doesn't always help. So take it for what you know, it's like it's like a grain of sand. Like, sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. And then we add all the other elements to increase the probabilities. And like you said, you know, if it's working out for you. I think you said you're doing 7% a month, which is, which is phenomenal. You know, if you can keep doing that you keep compounding it. Like you said, the count is just growing and growing, you're gonna be at in so you're not but you said you wanted your goal was 10,000 a month? You're not there yet? Kevin: I'm actually, I'm averaging more. So my best month so far. was just a couple months ago, I did 14 on that month, and I don't know how November's I mean, November has been really awesome so far. But I'm not making any predictions, I might be able to top 20 maybe this month, possibly. But the last time I thought I was going to do that for October, I just like in the middle of the month, I was invested so heavily on the and that was another thing that I point to bring up later on, as you get into this is is trying really trying to diversify. And that's not always easy, because you're looking at trading opportunities. And sometimes at different points in the market. Like for instance, a lot of the when I experienced the downturn for for my October contracts is because I had about 60 65% of my positions were in technology companies that all of a sudden, they decided that they were concerned about the 10 year yield on the treasury bonds, and everybody wanted to start exiting tech companies, well, all my positions really started getting into trouble, because there's a mass exodus. So that diversification, I think is also important and to try to get to that, and that's what I'm still trying to also work on is having, like, I've always preached about not having all your eggs in one basket. And so my, my long stock portfolios are pretty well balanced and diversified. I'm trying to get that way. And it's not always easy to do that. Because you come across an opportunity to say, well, this is really good, you know, the charts looking good. You like the the the prospects for the company. It's a good company that you're trading with. And so you go in and before you know it, you're overloaded on one sector. Allen: Yeah. Remember, this is one of the things that we had, we talked about a few times, you know, when I was going through your spreadsheet, looking at your trades, I'm like, Oh, they're these overloaded, he's overloaded. There's too many of them. And then like, you know, you got the lesson. So hopefully it sticks. Kevin: Like I said, and it's just it's really sometimes it's very difficult to tell And that's why I again, I tried to look for different segments that I can go into. And it's not always easy. But part of the thing I was going to share is that the importance that if your goal is 1000, once you start, you get yourself going, the you shouldn't just stop at trying to get 1000, you should try to get, if you can get into decent trades to earn more money, that should be part of your goal. I mean, it should be part of your natural goal. But I bring that up, because sometimes you are going to have down months. And so at the end, what you want to make sure that you have is if your goal is 1000, that your average is 1000, maybe some months, you're going to end up you should have 1500 or 2000 other months, maybe it's going to be 500. Or maybe you're going to lose 1000. So the whole point I'm trying to make is when you get to the point of what your of your comfort level in implementing the strategies is that you try to overshoot a little bit to compensate when you're going to have down months. And so October, I had a down month, and you know, so but the the idea is at the end of the year is to have that as an average, Allen: Right yep, yep. I mean, that's why, you know, on in our program, every trade we go is we shoot for 10% don't always get it, you know, we're gonna have months or trades where we make less money trades when we lose, but if you average it out, it comes about to be like, you know, five or 6%. And you're doing even better than that. So you're doing better than what averages but yeah, even 5% a month is 60 a year, compounded monthly, not compounded yearly, but compounded monthly, if you want to, that can be extraordinary life changing very, very quickly so.. Kevin: And at the end of the year, you're going to make the decision what your paycheck is going to be next year, I mean, with the program that I've the system that I'm coming up with. And that's that's kind of the cool thing about it. And when you think about it, if you take out your basic expenses and what you need, but are able to build up extra cash, and then the other opportunities that you could use, whether it's getting to financial independence, being able to retire earlier, you know, using that, that's just an extraordinary thing. And so that's part of my goal is again to generate additional cash flow so that you can even build a larger nest egg. And it for a while it took me because I kept on thinking what am I going to as a financial advisor, I have X amount of dollars that I like in cash. But then when you have excess cash, I always say that, you know, you're losing money because of inflation. But when you're using the excess cash to build your strategies into and to do what you're doing here. And if you're making 5% a month or seven, or whatever it is, and it's 84% of the year, where else can you take your extra cash, and make it make 60-80% I mean it just so that's when the light bulb came on, I said, Well, if I generate an extra, I'm going to keep that extra in my trading account that I don't need, and use that in the year going forward. So I can continue to build and have and have more opportunities I can, I can put on more trades and invest. And I said that is the way that you can actually see this really, really take off and propel you to financial independence or financial success of some degree. When you're able to generate and then sitting in cash at any point in time. You you decide that you're going to do something else with it if that money's there. Allen: Yeah. So when you are going through the program, what was like the biggest surprise that you had something that you didn't even expect? Kevin: How easy and simple this would be? You know, like I said, I had an understanding of options going into it. So that complexity of options wasn't there. When I first started, it took me when I started in 98 It took me a little while I bet it was at least a good six to eight months to really wrap my brain around the calls and puts where and how they function, different types of markets. That was probably the larger learning curve. When I first started options. I didn't have that going into this. I understood how they work. So the basic foundation was there, but I didn't realize again how easy and turnkey your system would be and getting you know because let's face it, we all get solicited, you know when the all sorts of different opportunities. Everybody is proposing "Hey, get rich doing this get rich doing that". And you come to almost have a very high degree of skepticism with many of the offers that you get. So there's most of them end up just going into my delete box because you know, you look at in the face and they say hey, make a million bucks. I'm thinking yeah, right. Okay. But yours, you pretty much You said everything on the line that hey, you can lose money. I'm going to help you do it consistently. I'm going to help you do conservatively. And everything you know that you have said this has been true so far. And like I said, with all the businesses I've run in my lifetime, I've never had a business that I felt like that was so simple that would provide me so much flexibility didn't have any headaches to deal with employees that the boss or anything else. And then all I needed is my laptop, laptop and internet or some type of connection into the electronic trading floor and I'm in business and I can do it wherever whenever I want and I set the amount of money that If I want to make it's up to me to take the most degree, obviously, the markets are going to have some say about it. But you know, you, you are truly Your Own Boss in this type of scenario. Mm hmm. Allen: So what do you think the future holds for you now? Kevin: I'm going to do this as long as I can, as long as I have my mental faculties together, and the market doesn't fully blow up. I guess that's one of the things that it keeps me up. It doesn't really keep me up, but it's always in the back of your mind, will I be fully invested or I'll be heavily invested in this market doing these types of strategies, when another March 20th comes in the whole entire market falls out, you know, then that's the one. That's why I try to be very mindful of that. And every day that you wake up you wondering, is this the day when the markets decided that the party's over, and we're going down? You know, there was that point in time that I thought that was happening in a couple months, you know, but not not even a month ago? Uh huh. Then Sir, they just decided I need to take a breath, or is this the day that the markets going to correct 10 or 20%, and I'm going to lose a massive amount of money in my positions. So that's the importance of making sure that you're managing your risks and understanding that the money that you're using, this should not be your savings account for your kids college education, that should not be the mount of your emergency only money, this should be your discretionary money, that you know that the unlikely event that all the markets go hell in a handbasket, you could lose the whole thing you get, you need to be make sure that you're prepared to take that risk. So that always is in the back of my mind to make sure that you're managing your risks appropriately. Because it's not only just about the making money, it's about making sure that you're losing as little as possible. Allen: Yep. So now this program that you are in, it focuses only on credit spreads and layups and how to trade them that way, I probably would not have that to be the only strategy in my toolbox. You know, selling options is great for everything you've outlined. But the like I said over and over again, the biggest time an option seller gets hurt is when the market changes direction. And you can you can mitigate that risk by doing some of the strategies that we talked about, but it's still kind of painful. So like you said, you know, if the market goes down 20% tomorrow, you know, you're going to get hurt to a certain degree. But that's why we also that's why really, I came up with passive trading, the whole system of passive trading and having a foundation in stocks and dividend paying stocks and the other strategies as well. And then you kind of diversify yourself. So yeah, you know, layups are great credit spreads are great, they're a great place to start, especially for, you know, somebody just getting into options, they're a great place, if you have a smaller account, as you grow in size, you know, as you like you, you got 400. As you get to 5-6-7 More than that, it's really important to move away from just one strategy and have your foundation set. And we've talked about that in other podcasts as well. But I think that gives you what I call staying power. And so that, you know, even if the market tanks or something bad happens, all of your trades will not just go down and expire worthless, you know, or expire in the money and hurt you at the same time you do have that something of value that can pop back up, like with Corona, you know, when we had the corona bear market, yes, my trades hurt, you know, my, the spreads trades that I had on, they got hurt. But the overall portfolio did fine because the market tanked. And then it rebounded. And then, because it rebounded right away, and we had money on the side and all that stuff, like you mentioned, you know, we were able to jump back in and make money month after month after month, and whatever was lost was easily easily recovered, because of the proper money management in the foundation that was set. So very good point for you. But you're still You're still saying that you're going to do this full time, I thought you I'm a little bit confused. You said you're still a financial planner, or is that you're done with that?` Kevin: I'm still a Certified Financial Planner, but I don't have an active practice. Allen: I see. Okay, Kevin: I don't I don't have clients, you know. Allen: Yo don't wanna get back into that? Kevin: No, you know, I really enjoy I enjoy what I'm doing now, to be honest with you. It's really now part of this, obviously, this helps achieve the financial goals, but then I've always been driven towards life purpose. So the question then is, is what is it that I will be doing that will will fulfill my purpose and mission in life? And so that's really what I'm exploring now. So this is the key. So.. Allen: Have you figured out what your purpose is? Kevin: No, actually, you know, now I, you know, Allen, I've always had a pretty, I've been really blessed I have, you know, I believe in, in a Divine Being that that controls us and gives us direction in life. I've always had that at this point in time. This is what I'm trying to figure out, what then is purposes for my life. This helps me certainly sustain myself financially. And you know, so the money that I taken in this, this has just been part of the dollars that I'm using to generate short term income of course, as you mentioned, the importance of having longer term investments. That's all this is all aside from a regular investment portfolio that I have in the long term, you know, but the question is what then is the purpose outside of generating money? What is it that you want? What is it that I want to give back to the community? What is it that I want to ultimately achieve? By the time I get to the end of the time in my life, that's always part of the life journey. And so that's what that's what's still always been defined. Allen: Awesome, cool. Well, let me know when you get there, when you figure it out. It's good to have time to just sit around and think about it, you know, it's like, yeah, I don't have to work. I don't have to worry about anything else. It's just, okay, I can sit thinking, what is what is the life? You know, what is purpose of life? I think that's like, a first world problem. You know, I don't think like people in third world countries figure that out. Kevin: No, and that's it. But I believe all of us have a purpose here on this earth, and that's part of the life journey is to figure out what is it that our whole life in, and I don't believe that there's one single purpose, I think that there's different stages in life, I always believe that life is like, it's like a big production, play production, you know, we all play a minor, major roles in each other's drama, comedy, or otherwise called life. And so, you know, the, I just believe that the key to really, to success and happiness is not just what you're able to generate in your bank account, but what you're able to redeposit into the emotional bank accounts of others, and that we were put on this earth to give back to others and to serve others. And so it's just how is it that we do that, I think everybody has a different purpose. Doing that, you know, sometimes people get involved with, that's why I was really interested in non for profit organizations and leading those to, to really help promote a greater cause in with inside my community, or state or country. And so that's, that's what I'm just trying to figure out what it is, you look at some of the most successful people, whether it's Warren Buffett, or whether it's Bill Gates, or Jeff Bezos, they all have different foundations, they're all they obviously have created a mass extreme wealth, but they also understand the importance of being able to give back to their community and being able to help solve world problems and and do something greater than just generate money in the pockets of their shareholders. They know that there's much more to life than that. And so that's everybody journeys is to figure out what is it that I'm going to do to make that happen. You don't have to become a a millionaire billionaire? Or now? I guess it's a well.. Allen: Almost there trillionaire Yeah. Kevin: But I think what Elon Musk was says 300 billion now as a first person to reach a net worth of over 300 billion or something like that. Allen: It's all play money, it's all play money, Kevin: He made any that through credit spreads though. Allen: Well Warren Buffet he sells options every month. Kevin: Buffett read a lot of Warren Buffett's books and his philosophy, and he's, you know, he's, there's a lot to learn from him. Allen: Like, you know, like you said, you know, we're blessed. And we're blessed, in many reasons, anybody listening to this podcast is blessed a million times, and the fact that we've found something that works so well, like you said, you know, Option Selling, it works so easy, and so well, and if you wanted to, he could take, you know, a much less time than you put into it because you're you're just having fun with and you're doing all kinds of other stuff and, you know, playing with it and pushing the limits and stuff, but the fact that we have the opportunity to, because of the position that we're in because of the way that the money is being made, we don't have to worry about you know, the 9-5 or the 50-60-70 hours a week, we can actually think about giving back we can actually think about Yeah, let's set some money aside or let's you know, you're talking about working at a foundation, hey, you could probably go in and make your own foundation if you wanted to. And do it that way. And you know, so it's just that gives us so many different opportunities in life and to set up our legacy and to set up you know, the way we want to give back to other people it's just I get over it just blows my mind every time I think about it, I'm like really I get to do this for a living this is like freaking crazy. Kevin: Like I said, the the really the sky's the limit the flexibility of what this allows you to do is extraordinary. Now you just the thing you have to decide is the number one it's not just about having the money to put towards it but it's the commitment and you have to become a student of that this isn't something that happens just overnight especially if you've never had been exposed to to trading options before so it does take some time so you that's why you... Allen: Says the guy who did it like four months Kevin: Oh but I had the background I had part of the mission so if I did not have that foundation, I can guarantee you take me a lot longer like I said before, it took me least six to eight months.. Allen: To understand the concepts Kevin: To have my whole brain wrapped around how options worked and you know difference between puts and calls and how they function in the markets and their purpose and things like that. I mean, I was trying to do the math in the beginning was just and I'm a numbers guy was just It took me a while to wrap my head had around it. But so you have to, if you determined that you make the decision that you're going to be committed, and then stay committed and understand there's going to be ups and downs, you have to become a student of it and really immerse yourself. That's why it's important to understand what is your goal, when you're getting into this, start out with the, with the income aspect of it, where you eventually want to be, create that plan. But most importantly, make sure you're committed, don't just stick one toe in it and say, I might just try it for a little bit, you know, get into it. And really make sure that you spend the time learning it, that you become a student that you're just immersed in this. And then you can make the decision if it's if it's right for you or not. But you can't just do this, you know, for a half hour a day just starting. And when you're just trying to learn and that's all you're going to put into it. Kevin: I've read all your books, your materials, when and inside and out. And I still go back just to refresh my mind you have you become a student of this. You know, I've had a lot of successes, but I don't I'm not, I don't consider myself a master at this, there's so much to learn. In this and in again, experiencing all the different types of markets that you go through and everything else, a lot of this is on the job training. And so it is one of those things that you learn as you go along. As I as I mentioned, I, when you first started mentioning that you need to cash out and spend money and brokerage fees and things to cash out and take your profits, I'm thinking, I think I must be nuts, I'm hanging in here, I want my couple $100 You know, I'm I don't want those people taking my money. And now. And now I celebrate every time that something cashes out because again, I know that that's money in my pocket that the markets not going to take away. And then it opens up the opportunity to make even more money. And so learning things like that and, and also, especially for the guys, I think it's harder to to know that you've got to be able to accept loss, you got to realize that you are going to have losses in this. But the important thing is is that you minimize those losses. And I know sometimes we don't like to make a mistake and say, Hey, listen, this trade just isn't working. I was wrong. When I thought about this direction this was going to go into you make sure that you're you're you're getting out at your prescribed amounts, whether it's 25, or 30%, you don't want to go beyond that if you can help it. Yeah, because those those losses will build. And it takes an awful lot number of trades to be able to make up massive losses, you know, so for me when I first had my first Max losses, $10,000, that's over 10 Actually 11 trades that you have to make up think about 11 trades that had to make up just to get back to breakeven, you count the premium $1,000 premium that you got for the trade. So, you know.. Allen: Yeah that's one of the rules you don't mean ever take up my slots. Kevin: That one that was in one of those companies that we talked about that happened to be which now as part of my rules, I don't invest in foreign ADRs, especially ones from China that are that have lack of regulations and such as one that that I got into it was it went up actually 25% and I'm thinking man, this thing is really kicking this is doing really well. And all of a sudden one day, there was news announced of, of where this there was embezzlement by this huge hedge fund manager and management of all these funds and the thing dropped over 50% And then that's when I got into my wishful thing I said, Well, this drop 50% certainly people can come in and just kept dropping and dropping. Finally, it turned into a max loss. And I had, you know, an issue one of our trades when I got hit on gold, you know, God, I was wrong about what gold was going to do in two days, you know, went from I think we're up to six or 7% were where the trade was down over 50%. And I said now, gold's coming back tomorrow, it's popping tomorrow, sure the hell didn't with a max loss, and that I said, you know, you just can't do this anymore. You cannot do this and be successful as business. You got to be willing to take the losses and just minimize them. Allen: Yep, yep. There's certain rules you got to stick by. And sometimes Yeah, they can come from experience, but it's very expensive experience. Kevin: You know, they are, but that's what the learning process is about. Mm hmm. And Allen: That's what we try to minimize. It's like, yeah, I can tell you it. But sometimes you won't learn it until you actually do it yourself. Kevin: But that's the importance of some and having somebody like you and these personal coaching sessions, because you're able to lease lend your wisdom and your personal experience. And that's what you get through your program. You get somebody that can actually be beside you and give you advice. And it's up to you then to decide whether you're how you're going to heed that advice or not. But at least you have rules to follow. You have a system to follow. And somebody with years of experience that can tell you hey, this is what I went through. And I don't want to see you go through this. So I would recommend that you do this or that the other and then you won't make that ultimate decision but at least they have somebody like you there i think you know is well worth the investment. Allen: Well thank you. So would you, I guess I know your answer. But would you recommend option genius to others? Kevin: Without question if you want to create, again, your own schedule if you if you want to create a real pathway to financial independence, and want to be able to have the flexibility to work, whenever to set your own paycheck, and really have the opportunity to create and fulfill your life and your financial dreams, I think this is a great opportunity to do that. You just have to be willing to make the commitment, have some resources to get committed, and come in with a, as Stephen Covey said with the end in mind, so begin with the end in mind. And that's the way you start to a pathway of success. . Allen: Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. I know I've kept you longer than, we were just having so much fun, I lost track of time. But.. Kevin: You have a really long podcast. Allen: It's gonna be a long one. But to sum it up, like well, you know, do you have any any parting advice for our listeners? Kevin: The first thing to do is if you are interested in, then you just need to take the initiative and get started, start with Allen's books, listen to his podcast, and then take those steps along the way. And if it's the credit spread, the direction that you want to go into the credit Mastery program, when that opens up, is certainly well worth the investment of our, you know, I've gotten my investment back nearly over four times from what I paid to get into the program. So it's well, well well worth the money. And again, you can set yourself up for really big financial success, but you've got to take that initial step. And sometimes that initial step is the hardest to take. And you just have to get started and you just have to commit and do it. Allen: Yep. All right. Well, I appreciate your time, Kevin, I appreciate all your expertise and your wisdom. It's been a pleasure to have you. Kevin: It's my pleasure, Allen, great to be here and thank you for the invitation. Allen: No problem. All right, everybody, make sure you trade with the odds in your favor. And Kevin is in our groups online. If you want to reach out to him. That's where you find him. Alright, take care. Kevin: Thanks, you too.   LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

Today I have the privilege of sharing with you, Mary Powell. The reason I'm bringing Mary on is because she's having some wonderful success in her trading, and we want to share that and she has a lot of lessons. And also she wants to share. But Mary, you might not know this, you are, you have the privilege of being the first female trader that we're interviewing on the podcast. So I haven't interviewed too many people on the podcast, most of the episodes have just been me. But we have been starting to interview, you know, people that are going through our programs and having success and different different traders, and our listeners seem to like it. So I said, Alright, let's bring some more on. But I did want to get it from a female perspective, because I do know that and studies have shown this that females are better at trading than men. Mary: There is that? And let's hope I'm not the last. Allen: No, no, you won't be. Mary: Start a new trend. Allen: Yeah. Yep. So I'm trying to line up a couple more. So hopefully, we'll have a lot more. Okay. And I am seeing that we are seeing more females in the program. So before, when we started, it was almost 100% All men, now it's become maybe 80-20. I think that with people like you coming on and sharing and saying, Hey, look, you know, women can do this as well, it's, there's nothing, there's no magic or anything to it. I think you'll be a role model for others who are trying it, but they haven't maybe stepped forward or they haven't put their hands up and said, hey, you know, I'm interested or something. So I think definitely, that will help. Because a lot of times, you know, when we're doing some type of like a case study with someone, it might be like, Oh, maybe it's a grandfather that lives or they used to work as a firefighter, you know, and he's talking about his story and this and that, then we'll notice that all of a sudden, we get a big influx of people who are grandfathers who used to be firefighters, or other firefighters. So whoever the case study is we seem to attract people like that. So I'm hoping that we can attract more women into the group. So I think that you're a trailblazer for that. So thank you Mary: Hoping for that as well. We can all support each other.  Allen: Cool. So Mary, how long have you been trading options? Mary: I have been trading options for more than 20 years, I will date myself and tell you that I did participate back in the late 90s when the option Industry Council to still a marvelous group of free education on options. But at that time, they were trying to solicit more business in the options. And they would go to various big metropolitan cities, rent hotel banquet rooms, and give two or three day training sessions for free about options. And so that's how long I've known about options. I would say I was probably a dabbler for a long time trying to master the various concepts about the Greeks and different option strategies. And my career probably took the front seat at that time, and I just didn't dedicate the time needed to really focus on it. Until probably in the last five years, many people in my family or friends have retired. And when I went to the financial planner and start working the numbers, and I didn't like those numbers. Wanna see, you got to work for 10 or 15 more years, I'm very fortunate that I do enjoy my job. But I don't want to have to have that pain over me that I'm a slave to it. So that's when I really got serious and started really honing my attention and my education efforts on options. Allen: So about five years ago, you got serious? Mary: Yeah. Allen: And I want to ask you like back in the day when you first when you when you first start, would you remember how much the commission's were back then? Mary: They were probably in the range of 14 to $16 and each, each side, so you know, $30 a round trip and that was back in the day when the naming nomenclature was alphabetical. They didn't go by month in week. They didn't even have weeklies back then. Yeah. So you had to learn all of that. Yeah, it's been fun to watch the evolution and with electronic trade.  Allen: Yeah I mean it's so so much simpler now and easier. And I remember, like, I didn't get started. I don't know. It's been a while. I think it's like maybe 15-16 coming close to 20 years for me, but when I started Thinkorswim was already there. And, you know, everybody was blown away. They're like, Oh my god. This is so amazing. So I'm like, okay, but this is cool. It's good. I mean, it's good to have these nice features and stuff, but I don't get but they're like, now you don't understand. You don't understand what we've been through. You know, to get a quote, you have to call your broker on the phone. And then he has to go look it up for you. And it takes like, 10 minutes to get a quote. Oh, wow. Okay, yeah, this is all real time. This is cool. This is better. So yeah, people starting now. I mean, the tools available education is available. It's a lot simpler than back in the day. So was it just because of the money aspect that got you involved in Options? Or was there something else? Mary: It was primarily the money aspect. And, you know, I was working a full time job, but I wanted to get into more multiple streams of income in different ways. But my job requires probably 50 plus hours a week. So that did limit me from what I can go out and get a second job. I just totally burnout so and I didn't have the time to focus to open my own business or do something like that. So what could I do that could generate cash flow that didn't require a lot of time? That's where Options fit into the scenario. Allen: Okay. And you you're working from home right now? Mary: Yes. Allen: Okay. What do you do? If you don't mind? Mary: I'm an auditor. Allen: Okay. For like, the for the IRS or something or? Mary: No, for a retail company - food retailer, I audit financial statements. Okay, like Sarbanes Oxley. Allen: So okay, so about 50 hours a week you spend on the job? How much time do you spend trading? Mary: So overall, all of my trading, I probably spend, I'll say, a half an hour a day. Allen: Okay. Mary: When I started with your group, I first started with the blank check program. So in that trading, if I'm not making a trade that day, I probably spend five minutes a check - twice a day, which more out of curiosity than necessity. I could check it once a day. If I'm making a trade, I might spend 10 to 15 minutes analyzing what I'm going to do, and then I make the trade for the month. Okay. Allen: And so what have your results been so far? Mary: So far? So I started trading live, blank check program in February of this year. And in that eight months, I've averaged 7% return per month. Mary: Very nice. And so far, I've made 16,500. I started just with the minimum amount to open an account on TD Ameritrade, 10,000. Okay, and I have added some more money, so I could expand the number of contracts I trade in. Allen: Awesome. So what's your goal? Is it to put it aside for retirement or double your income, supplement the income, so you can try early? Mary: Put it aside for retirement, and then in the hope of retiring early, in the next three to five years? Allen: So basically, you're gonna, you're gonna you're gonna leave the money in and just keep growing that account? Mary: Yes. Allen: Okay. How long do you think it'll take? Mary: So, with the blank check trading in conjunction with my equities trading, which I was just starting before getting introduced to your podcast, and we can talk about that, but I was just starting to kind of glean in on the selling puts strategy and your paths of trading - the wheel strategy, right before I started listening to your podcast. So between the two accounts, I hope to be able to retire in three to five years. Allen: That's awesome. That's awesome. So about five to seven years early. Mary: Yes. Allen: Okay. And do you have any children? Mary: No, I do not. Allen: Okay. All right.  Mary: So that makes it easier. Allen: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You know, she, she, she enjoys learning about the trading. And I've taught her in the past, but eventually, and then she started her own business. And so she's busy with there, and then she's busy with the kids. And she's like, Yeah, I don't want to deal with the trading. You know, she's like, you're doing fine. You do it. I don't want to deal with it. But we do have somebody else on our staff. And she is, unfortunately her husband passed away. I think it's been about a year and a half or two years from cancer. And so she's raising her four boys alone. And, you know, at the company here, I make it a requirement that everybody that works here, they have to know how to trade whether they do it We're not, you know, that's up to them. But they have to know what our customers are going through. They have to know the lingo, they have to know how to articulate. And so she's been, she's been killing it since she started. She said, she's learning and she's like, Oh, my god, you know, I've been working with you for two years. Now, why didn't I do this before? So.. Mary: Oh that's excellent! Allen: Yeah, it's, it's really, it's really cool. And the fact that, you know, you mentioned it only takes a few minutes a day, you can still work, you can still handle other responsibilities. It's not that it's not that time consuming. So that's one of the things I get, we got to get the word out, you know, we got to get the word out. Mary: I know but my heart goes out when I see older, retired individuals in the workforce. And I just say to myself, I hope they're doing it for social reasons and not economic, that they made the choice that they want to be out here working, because this is that easy at that age, and I give them all the credit in the world. Allen: Yeah, I mean, you know, you go to Walmart, and they have the greeters. And you know, they're standing there, and they can't, it's tough to see, it really is. But you said that you had started trading options about five years ago? Or was that Equities and Options or? Mary: That was just the equities? Allen: How are you doing with that? Mary: Very well, very well. That account is much larger. And, again, you know, I have to employ passive trading, because I just don't have the time. But I'm averaging 6% a month on that. So just to your principles may not seem like a lot, and I'm not going to be a millionaire overnight. But the compounding principle, in action, will. Allen: Yeah, no, 6% a month is nothing to.. Mary: No yeah so I'm beating the gentlemen over at a brokerage to remain nameless that other smaller accounts I have. So I'm very happy with the return. Allen: Cool. So how do you balance? Like, how do you decide how much to have in each? Because I mean, you said you're doing better in the oil. So however you decided, which is which you want to focus more time on? Mary: That's kind of a crossroads that I'm at, at this point, because I am doing so well, that I mentioned to you, the financial advisor, when I went last month for my tax checkup said, you have stopped trading for the year, or you're going to throw yourself into the next tax bracket, you do not want that. Focus has become the task, tax aspects of it all. So again, kudos to your podcast, because you address those types of things, all the section 1256 types of trades. And so that's where I'm at right now is evaluating. Okay, do I move more of my money into the oil trading? And I just signed up for the weekly trader, which is good deal more in the index funds - yes. So that would give me a better tax advantage. Allen: Okay. All right. Yeah. I mean, you, you know, I've never I know you can buy SPY. I don't know if you can buy SPX I've never actually tried to, that'd be interesting to know, cuz I know, the SPX. You know, the SPX does give you the tax advantage, the 1256. But I've never actually tried to buy a share of that. I don't know if you can, I know, you could buy call options, or, but I don't know if that'll be interesting to know. Yeah. Mary: Check it out. It's a first world problem. And I'm kind of on the water as well as like, do I keep working? or Now I, you have given me the freedom of time choice and choice do I mean, I could make what I make at my job trading? Do I do that full time? Or do I, you know, stick with the job as I can, then knowing that I do have the freedom of choice that if it gets to be too much, or I don't want to do it anymore, and I walk away from it. Allen: So you can you do that now? Or you could have to wait another three years? Five years? Mary: I could do that now. I think I'm just sticking with it. Because of the health insurance. And those sides thing? Yeah, I could still manage the job and the trading... Allen: Right. Right. So why not? Right. And you said there's, you know, there's a social aspect. So, you know, you've known these people for so long that it's like, kinda like family now. Mary: They are. That's very true. Yes, I have a great team that I work with. Allen: Cool, cool. So how does your husband feel about you trading? Mary: He has no interest in it whatsoever. He just lets me do my thing. I mean, I'm not used to getting his money or the mortgage money. So he just saw that's her little hobby. He's retired. So he spends most of his day either on a motorcycle or a mountain bike or doing the hobbies he enjoys. So.. Allen: Wow very nice. So he's never told you to be like, Hey, can you take care of my money too? Mary: Oh, he wanted me to do that with his 401k. And like no. Not gonna enable you, I'd be happy to teach you what I do. Allen: Well that was fun. Mary: He went out and got a money manager and.. Allen: Ahh that was funny.. you guys can do it together you know, swap stories, discuss different ideas, argue about which ticker symbols to buy. Mary: Yeah, I don't think you can handle the... honestly. Allen: It's not for everybody. No. Now the funny thing is, I do remember when you first called us so you got on the phone with us to learn about the program, and to get in. I actually talked to you, which I haven't I don't really talk to most people, but I don't know what it was. I was listening to you talking and you know, with Cory, you're going back and forth. And I hopped on the call, and you're like, Yeah, I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna think about it. And then I was like, okay, you know, and then later on, you actually came back. And you actually, you actually came back and did it. In hindsight, would you still have waited? Mary: Well, no, it was active waiting. You know, it was the trust, but verify. So what I did after that call was based on what I knew, and kind of figured you were doing with these options I pay a portrayed is for three months. And it was all positive. So I said, Okay, I'm gonna take the leap of faith and go for it. Allen: Cool, good. So that means, yeah, so you've had like, instead of just eight months, you've had like, 11 months of gains? Mary: Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things that you talked about on one of the podcasts is, you mentioned compared to individuals, one person took the program and went and did really well with it. And the other person just over analyzed and questioned and said, you know, it's too simple. This can't work again, if you had to ask me what was my biggest challenge in implementing it was just grasping the simplicity of it. I was like, Okay. And granted, I, you know, I did come in knowing the fundamentals of Options Trading, but I went through the, there's only six lessons. And so I was like, Well, I must be really tired. Maybe they're on a more on a different page or get it again, tomorrow. Nope, I came back. And I went through the six lessons again. And I went, Okay, let's do it took a deep breath and placed the trade and been good ever since. Allen: That's awesome. That's great to hear. Yeah. You know, I mean, I always tried to keep it as simple as possible. And sometimes like, as options traders, you know, if you come in learning about options, and like you said, you know, you go to the council, and they tell you, Oh, you got to know the Greeks. And you got to know the gammas and the Vegas and, and all this stuff. And people come in and they're like, what about this? What about that? And I'm like, you don't need to worry about it. It's like, Mary: There's so many strategies and strangle... there's iron condor, and people just get overwhelmed. Yo, I don't know where to start or how to do it. And when you look at your system, you're just like, Nope, just follow the straight path that I've already blazed for you. And it'll all be good. Allen: Yep. The biggest problem I have some time is like, you know, like, I knew that you had been doing it, you had been trading for a while. So in my mind, it was like, okay, you know, my hardest part with you is going to be to get you to maybe suspend disbelief a little bit, and to kind of stop doing all the stuff you're already doing. You know, and be like, this is the path just follow these steps. You don't need to do anything else. Just, you know, don't overcomplicate it, because we have people in the program in the group. They come in and they're like, Yeah, you know, you told me to do this but you I'm gonna do this double Condor butterfly thingy. And I'm like all right, let me know how it turns out. Mary: Yeah, it's like bumper bowling just head down the middle keep aiming the head bin?  Allen: Yeah, that's why sometimes.. Mary: ..you're out to do I mean, no, it has I get myself in trouble is if I go against the rules, and they a towel, and then my tracking sheet of what rule did I violate and what lessons did I learn from it? And so I only have myself to blame. It's not the program. Allen: Cool. Cool. So what was besides the simplicity, what was the hardest thing to implement? Or like this could be for your equity trading or for your options trading, to go from, you know, learning and not doing as well, to making that switch to being okay, now I'm becoming consistently profitable. What did it take to make that switch for you? Mary: I think in your mind, you're always trying to hit that home run that you talk about. But if you just get your consistency down with the base hits and small amounts, just keep compounding and keep compounding, you know, all of a sudden, you look at the balance, and you're like, wow, alright, I'm getting some traction, and I'm making progress. And I can do this, I can do this. Allen: Awesome. So what was the biggest challenge in implementing? Mary: Again, I think it's just trying to keep myself from over analyzing it all the time trying to make it more difficult than it is because it's like, well, if it's this easy, and why isn't everyone doing it? Right? So your brain is going, Well, maybe if I add this, or I start looking at this number, analyzing this graph, or this chart, I'll get the edge and it's like, no, just, you know, take a little cream off the top and minimize your stress. And, you know, keep compounding and you'll get there. Allen: So how was it? How did you overcome that in your own mind?  Mary: Just trying to be grateful and satisfied with the results that I have, and not be greedy? Yep. Yeah, keep reminding myself, it's gonna be okay. You know, no matter what happens, now, I have the knowledge and the tools to always be able to financially provide for myself. And that freedom, we can't put a price on it. And I can't thank you enough. I owe you immensely. Allen: No, you're the one that did all the work so...   Mary: But you shared it, and you don't give up on me. Yeah, I'm just a stubborn Irish girl, you let it settle. And I'll come back around. Allen: Yeah, we nobody has accused us of not sending enough emails. Mary: I love your email. Allen: Like one of my mentors years ago, when somebody that I learned from, you know, he kept drilling it into everybody's head, anybody that listened that, you know, get a good education, because that is the one thing that nobody can take away from you, you know, they can take away everything else. They could take away your status, your money or your, you know, physical belongings they can. And he was talking to people from different countries. So he's like, you know, they could expel you out of your country, and kick you out and take everything that you have, but they can never take your education, you will take that with you everywhere you go for the rest of your life. And I think you hit it on the on your head, you know, when you when you mentioned that you're like, now I have a skill that no matter what happens, I'm going to be able to just, you know, go into the market and just extract money. And.. Mary: Yeah, even if all I need is, you know, if I retired and I just need the money to pay the property taxes. I can do that and spend the rest of my time I may be on the beach, but yeah.. Allen: Yep. And you I mean, you compare that to, you know, like the financial planners, you know, they go to school, they get degrees, they follow the news, and this and that, and they do all this research every day, and they're supposed to know everything that's going on in the economy in the market and everything. And hands down. You're beating them. It's like, why are you guys doing that hard, it's tough. If you could do this instead? Mary: So to bring it back here point about being a woman. I mean, we know they are better traders statistically, but just we know in the workforce, you get discriminated against and your pay. And as a petite woman Oh, even more so everybody treats me like a child. You see me at car dealership? Oh, oh, no. Yeah, no. They just only talked to my husband. And he's like, don't talk to me, she's the one buying the car. You know, for you to be honoring to women to give that gift. And it's that freedom of choice that you don't have to be locked into a situation or stay with an individual or with a company if you don't want to only for financial reasons that you can have the freedom to choose the life you want. Allen: Wow, that's amazing. Yeah. I haven't like as a man. I've never even thought about that. You know, I've never had to think about that. Yeah, that you can if you're in a situation that it's not healthy, that a lot of women like you said they feel trapped. They can't leave because they're dependent on one thing or another and they don't have the resources to handle it now especially.. Mary: When you're behind the screen. There's no discrimination. They don't know who you are. You're just out there trading with everybody else. So it's a level playing field. You can make it happen. Allen: Yeah, and you're actually going It's not even level you have the advantage. For, whatever reason, you know, I guess they say that the female mind doesn't take as much risk. It's, you know, it's more about staying calm and collected. And like you said this the small games and watching out for security more than, hey, I want to hit the Grand Slam, maybe that that's what it is but yeah.. Mary: Put your ego aside a little bit and, and in for people that I know a lot of people I'm not good at math. That's not it either, you know, I think if you're like you say if you're wise, big enough, you can learn this. And it's a B, if you're in a store, and they raise the prices on everything by 50%, you're gonna get out of the store, right? If you're in the store, and they lower the price by 50%, you're gonna buy everything. So it's same kind of concept.  Allen: Yep. So all you need is a calculator. Or if not, then you could just use a spreadsheet and this spreadsheet. Cool, awesome. So what do you think the future holds for you? No Mary: Choice. And that's a good feeling that I'm not locked in. If the job gets to be too much, I can walk away and trade full time, and I'll be alright. And if the job holds out, and I retire in three to five years, then I can enjoy more time in retirement doing things I want to do and giving back. Because that's what it's about. It's a human. Allen: Mm  hmm. That's amazing. Yeah, that's great. Because I know, you know, I don't know how or when this COVID thing is gonna completely go away, or if it's ever gonna go away, but there's been a lot of people who had to quit their jobs. And they couldn't, they didn't go back to work for one reason or another. And taking early retirement. And now, it's become a lot tougher, you know, people with pre existing conditions, and then you get older and then you have to go in and it's like, yeah, I don't want to expose myself, I don't want to expose my my loved ones. And if you have something like this, where you can sit at home in a few minutes and use your intelligence and use your common sense and push some buttons, and the money, you know, it's it's, it takes a while, you know, it's not overnight, that you start making money. But I think in the long run, it's better off. And based on that, I wanted to ask you, how long did it take you to get your you know, your mind around the whole concept and start making money? Mary: In the blank check? Well, both both. I think so because I kind of started out as a dabbler and learning like everybody else and tried the strategies of buying options first. And you know, that's so hit or miss and get frustrated. And this and that. And so when I finally started going on the other side and selling options and having success, and it's like, Okay, God encouraged and, okay, now I see how this is working. Okay, let me look at every strategy and the pros and cons. And so, you know, with selling options, okay, what's the worst that can happen? I have to buy the stock. So I stick to, you know, high dividend stocks that I don't wouldn't mind owning otherwise. So that limits the risk on that. So I would say it probably took me two years..  Allen: Okay Mary: And then it  was consistent in my return.  Allen: Okay,so two years of learning, making mistakes, coming2 back having some winners and some losers. And then how about with the oil program? Mary: That was successful right off the bat. The only, you know, last month was my only negative month that I had. And again, that was my own fault. I didn't follow the rules. But but, you know, I could say I had, you know, I had the laws and still far ahead. So it's not one of these, you know, your program is not one thing. Oh, I'm gonna guarantee you, you know, million percent return. Allen: Yeah, and I mean, losses are part of the game. So, you know, you gotta learn to handle them..One time or another, it's gonna happen. So you might as well be ready for it. But, but the The important part is to know how to manage it, you know, and so yeah, I oil has been, has been interesting this year. You know, last year was interesting this year has been interesting, and who knows what the future holds. But I think one of the things that you mentioned you alluded to earlier is that when you're doing it and if you have like a community of other people that are doing it with you that you can bounce ideas off, it gets it gets so much easier, and it's not lonely. You know, one of the things that we see that people are like, "Oh yeah, I'm gonna try to learn it on my own", you really are kind of on your own. And there's nobody there helping you and supporting you along the way. So it takes, it takes much, much longer than it should, and, or that he needs to. Allen: Yeah, and I mean, losses are part of the game. So, you know. Mary: Exactly Allen: You got to learn to handle them it around it. Yeah, one one time or another, it's gonna happen. So you might be ready for it. But the The important part is to know how to manage it, you know? And so yeah, I oil has been, has been interesting this year, you know, last year was interesting this year has been interesting, and who knows what the future holds. But I think one of the things that you mentioned you're alluded to earlier is that when you're doing it, and if you have, like a community of other people that are doing it with you that you can bounce ideas off, it gets, it gets so much easier, and it's not lonely. You know, one of the things that we see that people are like, oh, yeah, I'm going to try to learn it on my own, you really are kind of on your own. And there's nobody there helping you and supporting you along the way. So it takes it takes much, much longer than it should and, or that it needs to. Mary: And when you get older, you know, time is money. And it's worth the cost of the program to gain that knowledge and have it all laid out for you. versus spending so much time trying to dabble on your own and figure it out. And with your program I mean, the Facebook group is all very supportive and sharing their ideas. And as well as the weekly calls. It's a great community. They're very welcoming and open to everyone's ideas and learning new things.  Allen: Yep. Hopefully, you know, we won't have any of that discrimination in there. I don't think we have.. Mary: No, I'm not sensitive at all. I mean, I know for when I first started calling in, I was the only woman on but nobody ever made any comments or said anything. They were very welcoming.  Allen: Yeah, and the culture is pretty clearly. It's not like an all boys club, you know, they're very clean. No dirty jokes really like that. But um, so what would be some of the takeaways that if you know, somebody came up to you and said, Hey, I'm thinking about learning to train and joining Options? What are some of the tips that you would give them? Mary: Well, going back to how I even came upon your podcast. So during COVID, I've only been familiar with your program for about a year and a half. So with COVID, I was doing more walking, so started to listening to podcasts while I walk. So I searched for options, and yours came up. And when I saw how much how many episodes there were in content, I thought, Oh, this will take me three years worth of get through..so this would be great. And I got through all those podcasts in about two or three months. That's how good they were. And every one it was like, yes, that's exactly what happened. Oh, he's given such great advice, and it is down to earth. This is the real world advice. You're not sugarcoating it, you're not making promises that you can't keep. And if I had to tell people what I learned from my 20 years of trading, it would be just what you're telling people on their podcast, you know, from the ups and the downs to how to diversify. How to protect yourself from various risks. So I can't speak to the podcast strong enough.. Allen: Thank you.. Mary: That they cover the gamut of what you're going to deal with and when you become a trader. Allen: Okay, so Okay. Okay, so listen to the podcast, but what else? What else, give you some, some behind, you know, some, some, like stuff that you learned in the trenches kind of stuff? Mary: Stuff that I learned, I'll tell you that one of the best things I learned was making mistakes, how much I learned from it. Okay, so when I was first starting to sell options, and I realized that I kinda oversold and the position went against me. And so I was going to have divided the stock. Well, it was very expensive stack and I was like, oh, no, how's this gonna work out? What's gonna happen on Monday morning, so sweating it all weekend, figuring out how I could take a home back to cover my.. this and that and then just through going through it, then I realized, well, Monday morning, it opened up higher so they came out ahead, you know, they signed it to me, and then I resold it. So it was like, oh, okay, that's how that works. No problem. I know. No, I can handle it. That was my story. Allen: Yeah, yeah. Nobody showed up to my house. You know, want to break my kneecaps or anything? Yeah, a lot of a lot of on that point, there's a lot of things that we are afraid of that "oh, this is going to happen and that's going to happen" and we're not we haven't gone through it yet. And we just have these fears and when we actually go through it, it's like, oh, that's not what I was expecting at all. Mary: Yeah that's not so bad, I can handle that. So exactly, put a lot of that fear to rest in my head. Allen: Okay, so what are the worst things about trading for you? Mary: The worst thing? That there's so many things to choose from, from so many equities you can choose to dabble in and so many different strategies, just trying to find what your niche is. And you know, what works for you and what you're comfortable with. Well, I think finally, after all this time, I've been trading, I kind of have a cadence know, the stocks I like, which ones you get a feel for them, and you get a sense of how they move. And so that was kind of a switch for me, I guess, in the equities tend to trade a lot of high volatility stocks. Went to oil, in my mind, commodities, because I didn't have any frame of reference, except the old movie from the 80s. You know, one minute, you're up half a million and soybeans, the next they breach, your kids aren't going to college presents your... So I was worried that it would be even higher volatility than what I was used to. But it turned out to be the opposite. It wasn't as volatile. So I would make correcting move (inaudible) was gonna be a lot more volatile. And it was, so I've had to adapt in a good way. Allen: Okay. Yeah, most people told me the opposite. They're like, Yeah, this is, it moves a lot more than I'm expecting,  because of the leverage that's involved. Okay. So what was it that that attracted you to oil in the first place? Mary: It was the diversity from the equities, being able, again, like your multiple streams of income, I can do the same thing, but in different avenues. So that if something happens on the stock side, so I have the oil, and it was the tech draw of it. Okay, the benefits on the tech side? Okay. Allen: All right. Do you, now looking forward? Is there anything else that you're going to be trying? Or are you happy with what you got going on right now? Cuz I mean, you know, 6%, on one side, 7% average on the other side per month? That's really good. You know, you could easily turn that into a few million dollars the next few years, just compounding every month, over and over again. Do you think you need something else itching or are you just content? Mary: I just because, I get itchy and you know, there's a bird chirping in my ear about the whole crypto, you know, so, you know, I was looking into different started watching some videos or informational stuff on trading crypto in a Roth IRA. Allen: Really, inside a Roth? Mary: Yeah. So that if it goes big and you get the home run, then, you know, you don't have to get hit so hard with the tax.  Allen: Right, right. Mary: You know and being closer to retirement. Okay. For me, it's a different if you were 20 years or something. Allen: So would you have to have a like a self directed IRA this year, that special broker? Okay, all right. Okay. Mary: So but.. you know.. Allen: Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I have some, you know, I've been buying a little bit for the past several years now, just holding it and be like, Yeah, I'm not gonna trade it because I don't know where it's going up. And when it's going down, just been just invited a little bit here and there and just sticking in leaving it in the wallet and it's just, you know, just going up and up and up. It's crazy time do we live in? You know, like you said, 20 years ago, 14, 18, $20 a commission, you had to call your broker up to place a trade. Now, it's like, you know, press a few buttons 15-20 minutes a day, like you said, I don't know, man, we're living in great times. Mary: There's so many choices. You know, I do listen to some podcasts from CME Group is different ones. And just that team, they're expanding their offerings, you know, getting more into micros and the minis on all the indexes, because that's what people want. And they're starting to get into smaller units on the crypto currency and they don't have options on those futures yet, but you can tell there's enough audience questions about it that there's interest and I'm sure it'll come to be. Allen: Yeah. I think part of it is just they just want to make more money, you know. Mary: Their commissions are getting smaller and smaller. So they have to find ways to diversify as well. Allen: Yeah, the more stuff they have that people can trade, the more fees they can charge on their features. but cool. Okay, well, I appreciate your time. Is there anything else that you want to share with our audience? Mary: No, I appreciate the invitation. And just I would say, if you're new to options, don't get overwhelmed. Because I'm still learning, I pick up books. And, you know, I just, it's a hobbies, interest. And I like reading different books about it. But if you just learn one new thing a day, in no time you'll have it so don't get overwhelmed. And anyone's thinking about going into these programs with Allen's team and just have faith in the process and the program. He and his team are there to support you. It's not some fly by night, answering service, you can get a hold of Allen, you can get a hold of his team. So you know, that kind of put substantiation behind it. So have a faith in Allen's programs and have faith in yourself. Because you can do it, just get past fear and go for it. Allen: Well said, well said, Awesome. And thank you for this so well, the kind words, I really appreciate it. Nothing makes me happier when we have a success story or somebody saying, hey, you know what, I tried that. I just listened to you. And I did it. And it really worked. And I'm like YAY because like my wife. She knows trading, you know, she's she was interested in the beginning. And so I taught her some stuff, but I can't really go home and talk to her about it all day, cuz she'll like, she'll be like, stop. I don't really care. It's fun. It's fun when other people come back, and they like, Yeah, wow, it really worked. And I'm like, All right, Yay, we're actually making a difference in the world. So I appreciate that. Mary: You told me so. And you were right. Allen: Cool, cool. So for our listeners, I just wanted to sum up what Mary shared with us. So she's been doing oil options for about eight months now making consistent returns, she's also trading in a different account stocks, and you're doing some high volatility trades, right? And then you're also doing some low volatility stuff where you're doing like passive style with covered calls naked puts, and.. Mary: I'm mostly doing naked, puts on everything. Allen: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, those have been working amazingly well, I've been doing those as well just gotta make sure that you're protected when the market turns around. Cool. And then it was interesting that you said that, you know, your, your financial adviser told you, hey, you need to stop making money. Because otherwise, can you stop trading please because you're gonna go into higher tax.. Mary: Oh, my goodness. Allen: Like, okay, you know, give me some ideas, you know, how to, like, you know? Like, don't tell me to stop making money. You don't tell me, okay, give us give us a charity or something else? Or give you some ideas? Don't tell me to stop making it. Come on.  Mary: Exactly. Allen: That was interesting. And then I love the fact that she said that, you know, if you wanted to, you could stop working right now. And you could just live off your trading income. And that gives you complete freedom. And that gives you, you know, the choice of, hey, do I want to keep doing this? Do I want to stay at work, or if things deteriorate, you know, who knows what's gonna happen with the future, what's going on? If anything goes different topsy turvy, you have the choice of staying, or leaving or moving, you know, you could go to another country and, and who knows what, anything's possible. So I love that fact that you've been able to get to that point. And, you know, kudos to you, you did the work, you put in the time you learned, you tried it, you practiced it, and then you just followed, you know, you didn't mess with it very much. You followded the rules, and it's working, and you're like, Okay, you know, I can do this. It's good. And it's been wonderful to have a female perspective. I mean, you enlighten me about, you know, having that freedom of not having to be in that bad situation. If you are in one, you know, Mary: Yeah. Or, like, you know, the person on your team who not by choice, but is in a position of having to raise children with, you know, no partner and having to build a come up with that income to do that. Yeah, that's scary to be in that position. Yeah, I mean, for you're gonna do. Allen: Four boys is not cheap, you know. So it's like, she could either be working 50-60 hours and try to pay for everything, because she's got, you know, all four of them are gonna be heading to college soon. So that's not going to be cheap, either. And you can either do that, or, you know, she's working less than 40 hours now, and she's supplementing that with the money that she makes from her trading. So it's amazing. The blessings We get from this stuff. But yeah, you know, kudos to you. Definitely you looked into it, you learned about it and you said hmm. Okay, let me try. Yeah. And that took you down. It took you down a road that you never knew what the outcome would be. But the outcome has been amazing so far. So I'm really proud of you did a great job. Mary: I would not have explored that on my own. You know, if it wasn't for your program, I would have never looked into the oil. Allen: Yeah. Well, we're here for you. We're here for you know, all the other students that we have. We do our best. And again, I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Those of you are listening. If you want to reach out to Mary. She is in our Facebook group. Thank you so much, Mary, and we'll talk to you soon. Mary: You're welcome. Thank you for the invitation. Been a pleasure. Thank you LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

Welcome Passive Traders to another special edition of the Option Genius Podcast. Today I have something a little bit different for you. I was interviewed on another show called "2 Bulls in A China Shop" by a company called Financial Ineptitude. That's actually their name,Financial Ineptitud. Basically, it's two guys. You know, there are really cool guys named Kyle and Dan, and they've been talking about trading for a little bit. They've been trying to learn how to trade and so they made this podcast to basically help them get their thoughts out, and to record all of their lessons. Their website is really cool. Their podcast is two bulls in a china shop and I'm going to include the interview that they had here as an episode because I thought it was really good. It was a lot of fun. And hopefully you guys will get something out of it and learn from it as well. So again, that's "2 Bulls in A China Shop" by Kyle and Dan. Enjoy the episode. We're so glad you've joined us today, folks, today is a very special day, we've got a fantastic guest with us. We're gonna be joined here by Allen Sama, Head Trader and owner of Option Genius. He is an Amazon bestseller author of the book Passive Trading: How to Generate Consistent Monthly Income from the Stock Market in Just Minutes a Day. And we're going to let you know more about that. But first, Allen, how are you doing today? Allen: I'm doing very well. Thank you very much. Kyle: Thanks for coming on. I know we had to work a little bit to get this. This recordin going. Allen: Yeah, better make it good. Allen: I'll do my best. Kyle: The more you work for it the sweeter to be right? Yeah, Dan: Yeah. No pain, no gain, Allen: The more you value it, right. Dan: Oh, right. So so tell us a little bit about your journey to becoming the Option Genius.  Allen: So I was born as a trust fund baby and I started with $20 million. Kyle: End of story. Allen: Exactly, then I made a course. And then I made a course and I started selling it. Dan: Make more money selling. Allen: Yeah. So I have a similar story to you guys. You know, I got laid off from basically the only job I ever had. And it was really about, hey, do I go back to finding another job than job market? Or do I try my hand at trading, which I had been starting to learn while I was working because I was working remotely. So it was a great job learned a lot. But it just came to an end. The business went under in the financial crisis. And so, you know, we were actually teaching mortgage brokers how to be mortgage brokers, mortgage brokers, they owe it away. So it's like they didn't need me anymore. And so I said, Alright, cool. Let me you know, try my hand at trading. And I took some of my wife's money, and I lost most of it roughly, for like 40- 43,000. Plus, very quickly. Dan: Oh you're kidding. Allen: And, you know, like you guys said, you know, you learn very quickly, what doesn't work and most of it doesn't work. Yeah, at least for me. Dan: I get to strangled to work one day. Allen: Yeah. And so really, the, the best thing for me was that, you know, she had, she had faith in me, and she, she's like, you know, you need to make this work. And so I went back, and that kind of really put a fire under my ass. And then I looked at all my records, because I keep paper records of all my trades, write down everything. And so I found that, you know, I was doing day trading, and I was doing this and I was doing that buying and selling and value and I was trying everything, you know, there was one time where I was long, the inverse ETFs you know, SDS and SSO. So SSO is the two 2X S&P Going up, and SDS is 2X going down. So I was long on both of them. I was like, I can't lose. Right? Yeah, it's like the only trade that I can't lose on but guess what I did, I ended up losing money on that trade. Dan: You're telling my story, Allen. You're telling my story. Kyle: This all sounds so familiar. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel that it sounds like you.. Allen: Because the only thing that worked for me was selling options. And I had done at least one trade where, you know, I put it on, didn't really know what I was doing. But I followed it. And I put it on and I forgot about it. And then it it was in my paper records, but it wasn't in my account. And I'm like, where to go. My broker scamming me, you know, that should be here, you know, I put the trade on, where's my trick, and I kept researching, and then I realized that that trade had expired, worthless, and it just had gone away. So it doesn't show up on the screen anymore. And there's no exit record. And so I was like, Well, this is cool. You know, this is something that I didn't pay any attention to. And I made, you know, a good decent amount on it. And I didn't like it was easy. So I'm like, What is this thing? So I learned more and I dug deep into it. And we went into covered calls and naked puts and spreads and iron condors and, and all these different ones. And eventually I found that, um, you know, these type of trades are a lot more forgiving. So if you're not the most savvy, technical analysis like me, and if you're always buying at the wrong time and selling at the wrong time, getting all emotional like me, then this really was something that was much easier to do and, you know, you probably hear it If you talk about it, but it's like you put the odds in your favor. So it's a little bit, I think it's more conservative. But it's a lot more passive in the sense where I don't have to be in front of the screen all the time, I'll put a trade on, and then just check it and make sure it's okay. And that Theta decay just works in my favor. So the time decay, meaning the options go down in value, you know, every day as they should. And then eventually they expire. And when they expire, then the trade is over. Kyle: So what kind of time frame are usually looking at when you're selling your contracts? Allen: Well, I'm in different strategies now. But usually, I'm going around 45 days to about 25 days. Kyle: You basically just rolling monthly, the monthly. Allen: Yep. So I'll stay in two months. And then if I get out, then I'll be like, okay, good down. Let me look at next month, sometimes I get out early, and I'll take, you know, take a week or two off, I'm not doing anything. And then, but most of the time, yeah, it's you know, you're getting out of one and then you're getting into the next one. Kyle: Are you just doing these cover calls? Are you doing spreads? Or what are you doing to cap your, your, your losses, because we selling options? Contracts can be really dangerous.. Allen: Mm hmm. So we do a little bit of all of them. You know, I've been doing it now for 15 years. So I started with the iron condor, because that that, Oh, my God, this is awesome. You know, you can make money on both sides, and the stock doesn't move too much. And it's a trade that can't lose. Obviously, I found out that yeah, you can lose. But I mean, it's probably the most complicated trade you can start with. And that's the one I did and then I got, you know, I got good at it. And then I did look at covered calls, we did that for a while still do them now in my. So let me break it down, in my retirement accounts, I do covered calls, naked puts, and some spreads. And the spreads are really there to just goose the returns. Because in those I'm looking for about 10% a month, the covered calls naked puts, I'm looking for one to 3% in the retirement accounts. And then in my trading account, I do spreads iron condors. And then I also do a little bit of futures options. So those are a bit more, they got a lot more oomph to them, because there's more leverage involved. And so they're faster. They're very, they're much faster trade. So I'm in and out, usually around two weeks, about 14 trading days. Kyle: Before we get too deep into here, maybe we should kind of talk, can you explain, let's start with an iron condor. And maybe just real quick recap of what a spread is. Allen: Sure. So a spread and the way I trade them is I want to be selling the spread. And so it is something that where you take an option that is far out of the money, you sell that one, and then you buy another one a little bit further out of the money to hedge yourself. So it's a risk defined trade, meaning you know, exactly "Okay, I'm gonna put in, you know, $500 into this trade, or 1000, or 5000", or whatever you put, that's the most you can lose. And then you get a credit for doing it, meaning you get paid when you put the trade on. That credit is the most you can make. So now on the spreads that I do. So for example, let's say we have a stock that just going up and up and up and up. Right now, I like to play the trend, I like to play momentum. And so if it's going up and up and up, I'm going to sell calls. So I'll sell a call spread, I'll get paid for that. As long as the stock doesn't go below my calls, my trade makes money. And on those types of trades, I'm looking for about 10%, like I said, on a monthly basis. My iron condor would be doing that trade with puts and calls on the same stock at the same time. So you want, in that situation, you kind of want something that's going sideways, you want a stock or an index or something that's, you know, it's not moving too much. It's kind of lazy moving sideways, and so you sell some puts below it, and some calls above it. And so that way, you get paid for both you get paid for the calls, and you get paid for the puts. But you don't have to, you're not risking both sides, because you can only lose on one side. You know, so you have the same amount of risk as if you just did a one sided spread, but you get double the credit so you make twice as much money. Kyle: Right. Oh, I was found that the more complicated things get the worse I do at them. We'll have some links in the episode description explaining those a little bit better to anybody.  Dan: Yeah, I'll need to follow those. Yeah. Kyle: So you're looking to generate about 10%. 10% A month or return on your investment then? Allen: Yep, that's it. Yep, that's it go. I mean, you don't always get there, right? You're going to have months where you make less, there's going to be months when you lose money. So if I aim for 10, you know, I can think hey, you know, if I get five for the month, I'm happy. You know, that's 60% a year. That's that's pretty good. Yeah. So I cannot complain. There have been there have been years when I've done over 100% And then there'll be two years when I've lost money. So, but overall for the past 15 years. It's been working really, really well for me, so you know. Kyle: Yeah, it sounds like you're Your path kind of took the same path that mine actually took, like, that was what led me to quit my job is thinking like, I could sell contracts because you know, 80% of them or whatever, expire worthless, rather be on the side that has the math with it. And I'll just, I'll just basically trade the wheel and sell puts, you know, until I get the stock and then calls against it until they get taken away. Success has been mixed so far, but still not working. So. Oh, really? Well, we could talk about that. Well, it sounds like I need to read your book is what it really sounds like. Allen: Yeah, I mean, you know, right now, we're in a bull market. And so the puts that we've been doing the selling the puts, I mean, it's been, it's been working phenomenally, um, covered calls are doing well, as well, because we go pretty far out of the money. So like, you know, it's not always 80%, sometimes I'll go 85, 90 95%, depending on what I want to do. So in my retirement accounts, I don't want to lose my stock. And so I'll sell pretty far out of the money. So I'm not making as much on those. But I don't want to lose my stock. And I'm just looking for a little bit, you know, I'm looking for, you know, 1%, one and a half percent, maybe a month, and I'm happy with that. And so the naked eye, you know, it's also stock selection. And I think that's one of the issues that a lot of people get mistaken. People say that, "Oh, when you're selling options, you should be looking at the ones that are the most volatile names, because they have the most premium, and you get paid the most". To me, I think that's like a suicide mission. And, and I just want to be the, I just want to save ones that are boring, that are you know, everybody ignores them. You know, I like the small, the large, very large companies, they pay dividends, they don't move very much. Those are the ones I just want to cash flow, you know, I just want to be selling naked puts on them, they're not gonna drop 10%. If they do, it's like, it's like the, oh, my God, this thing dropped 10%. You know, that's good news. So I want to sell those, and I want to keep them and collect the dividends and then just get my cost basis down as far as I can get. Dan: Do you have a favorite company then that you find yourself going back to more than others? Allen: I like stuff like McDonald's, Walmart, Starbucks, you know, big names. Everybody's known them there around the world, they have dividends so you know, that they're if they're paying the dividend, they're still profitable. They're making money. You know, Apple is kind of joining that list, although Apple is still a little bit more volatile than the others. But yeah, stuff like that, you know, basic big name, dao components, most of them, one of them that I really liked, that hasn't has been doing really well over the past few years is Intuitive Surgical. It's is ISRG so it doesn't pay dividends. And it's not good. It doesn't have a lot of option volume, but for credit for covered calls, and naked puts it's good enough. And that stock has been doing really, really well for me for the last few years. So that's a particular name. Kyle: So yeah, some of these are pretty expensive, though. I mean, yeah, you gotta be real careful, you don't get stuck with a couple 100 shares, if you don't have the account to cover that. Allen: Yeah. So in that case, you know, what we can also do is you can always roll them. So if I get into a position where I'm sold a naked put and it goes into the money like I've done this with right now, my kid loves Roblox. I don't know if you have kids, but my kids are always on that game. And I was when it came out. I was like, Oh, this is cool, you know. So I sold some naked puts on it. And now they're in the money, and they've been in the money for like three months. So what I do is I just roll them to the next month. So about maybe a week or so before expiration, I will buy back the put the naked put and then sell it again for the next month, collect a little bit more premium, and then the trade just continues. Kyle: Hmm, that's interesting. Yeah. Wow, I didn't even think about doing that. That's awesome. Okay, so roll it over. I'm making notes for myself.  Allen: Now, these are on stocks that you actually think are eventually going to go back up, you know, if it's still going down, down, down, then you're like, No, you need to bail out and be like, yeah. But if it's a decent company with decent, you know, fundamentals, and you know, they're making money and all that stuff, then yeah, Kyle: I've always gravitated towards the cheaper stocks when trying to sell contracts, just because at least if I'm selling, and they could put on something that's only valued at like, $15, then I know I can't lose more than $15 a share. Allen: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, like, my thinking is that I want to be in a company that I know is not going to zero, so I don't have to worry about it. Kyle: I mean, Ford for a while is trading around 15. It's at 18. Now, but yeah, I know for some solid companies that are in that range, right? There's a lot of other ones that aren't though. Allen: Like if it was a $200 stock, and now it's at 15 There's another issue going on there. Dan: Hertz is coming back. Good PR story. Damn it. Kyle: I'm gonna go back to losing $40,000 of your wife's money. So what were you doing that got you like we tried to day trade options were you.. Allen: I was doing a little bit everything I was day trading stocks, I was buying options. I was buying and selling like I was doing some value investing for a little bit. I'll be watching Kramer every night and looking at what's Kramer telling me to do. Okay, I'm gonna do this and that I would watch fast money every day and look for any anything that sold this is going up okay, hey, copper is going up. Let me buy some you know, SPX. Let me buy some of this. So trying to play the trend is trying to play all that stuff. I looked at futures, you know, trading futures a little bit, but that's,  that takes a lot of money. Kyle: There's no it actually takes less than you think. Really? $4,000 you can fund and account. Allen: Yeah, but then I mean, like you got Japanese. Japanese yen that takes that's a lot of money for a contracts. Dan: Okay, Yen is in micros now. Allen: Yeah, at that time, they didn't. They didn't I don't think they had those. Kyle: Probably. Yeah, I think minis were kind of new thing. Yeah. Allen: But yes, I was trying a little bit everything, whatever I could, whatever book I could find whatever video I could find. Just trying a little bit everything in nothing, nothing really worked for me. Kyle: So what was it that actually got you out of that? That, I guess Funk You can call it. Allen: So until for several months, my wife did not know that I was losing all the money. You know, she'd come home. And she actually, I mean bless her heart, she took a second job. So she's working two jobs while I'm at home trading. And, and we didn't have any kids at the time. So that was good. But you know, she she'd come home tired, and she wouldn't really want to talk about it. Because sometimes I'd be happy sometimes I'd be sad. She really couldn't tell what was going on. And then one day, she checked the mail and the account statement had come in the mail. And she's like, where's all the money?    Dan: Oh, no.    Allen: And I was like, Yeah, we need to talk about that. And then I feel, you know, I could tell that, you know, the marriage was on the ropes because we were newly married, and she had saved up for years working to save up this money. And so it was really a matter of, you know, I promise you that I will give me three months. That's what it boiled down to. So give me three months, I promise you, I will at least get back to breakeven or like, you know, not lose money every month, and then I'll start making it back. And if I don't, I'll get a job. So that was it. That was my ultimatum, I had three months to turn it around, or go back to, you know, the 9 to 5 grind.   Kyle: So I gotta ask you, one of the things that took us a while to learn was basically the number one job of being a trader is risk management. So what point during that journey did that finally kick it in your head? Risk is the most important thing. So you don't end up blowing up an account like that. Allen: It didn't really hit me for a long time, even after I started getting a little bit consistent. Really? Yeah. Kyle: That's interesting. Allen: You know, I kept going gung ho blazes forward until maybe like a year, year and a half. of really, you know, trading full time. The one thing the benefits of the selling options is that they're not that many losses, you know, you don't lose on too many trades, because it's set up to to help you win. And so that kind of helped me, but I would, I would have these huge losses, like if I'm making 10% on a trade, the idea was not to lose more than 25 to 30%. But I would be losing, you know, 40% 50% 60%. And I just couldn't get out of that hole. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you the secret. What turned it around. It was my wife, yeah. So she's like, cuz I was talking to her at this point. I'm like, Hey, this is working. This is not working. I'm doing this. I'm doing that. She goes, You know, it seems like you have everything you need. You're just not sticking to your own trading plan. Right? Yeah. Cuz I get emotional. You know, I think he's gonna turn around. I think he's gonna do this. But then, you know, CNBC said this, and then fox said this, and so she's like, oh, let's do this. She goes, I'm gonna come and check on you every day at a certain time and we're gonna go through each trade. And I'm gonna ask you questions, and then you have to answer. I'm like, Okay, let's do it. So she would come up, you know, she'd come upstairs to the office. And she'd be like, Alright, show me your trade. Alright, what's the goal? How much are you trying to make? Alright, where's it now? What's the trading plan? What happens if it goes down? You know, when are you going to adjust it? Or when are you going to get out? And then if I haven't gotten out yet, or if I haven't adjusted, then I have to answer why. Why? Yeah. And if I don't have a good answer, get out now. Allen: That's, that's really awesome, actually. So you just delegated your risk manager hat to your wife. Allen: Pretty much. And then, you know, there were times where I didn't want to have her breathing down my neck anymore. And so that's when I got better at it myself. And then, you know, after a while, she was like, Hey, I think you got it. You don't need me anymore.   Kyle: I know you say that you think that you're blessed to be to be able to do a dream job of earning money in the stock market and working in your PJs, but I think you I think you hit the lottery twice. It sounds like you really married a great woman. Allen: Oh, yes, I did. I did. And she hates me. He's telling this story about how I lost her money, she hates. She's like, you sound like such an idiot like a dumbass.  Allen: Yep. I think we all go through it. We all do it. Dan: Nobody just started out and just like, oh, every trade I've made. It's been great. What's your problem? Kyle: No, most people will blow up an account too. And that's why the things that we've been learning is, Dan and I are both trying to learn futures. So we're going through some courses with the trade pro Academy. I think we're I think Dan just flipped the live today, in week four now. But one of the main things with that is like, Okay, we fund the minimum amount we need in that account in case something goes wrong. You know, the most we can lose is whatever's in that account. Yeah, we're not going to fund it with you know, the life savings and then give ourselves you know a hundred thousand dollars  a full wrap with,   Allen: Yeah but the cool thing is, you know, you guys have each other to bounce ideas off to talk to, you know, a lot of people try to do it on their own. And they're just like, I did you know, I was lonely. I was doing, I couldn't figure out what was wrong. It didn't have anybody to talk to. Because I mean, you tried to talk to your neighbor, or your friends or your family like, oh, yeah, hey, I sold a, you know, a call spread. And they're like, "What? What the hell are you talking about?" I couldn't talk to anybody, so it's awesome that you guys have somebody. Kyle: Well, actually, I think the podcast for us is actually but what's taking the role of the wife explaining the moves? I mean, at the end of every episode, we do a good, bad and ugly segment where we talk about something that worked something that didn't work and something that was really bad. Allen: Yeah that's accountability. Right there. You got to tell the world. Kyle: So now, yeah, when you're getting ready to do something stupid, you're like, how do I really want to talk about this on Saturday? Okay, I'm looking at their your, your, your sheet here that you said this. And one of the things that I see on here that's really interesting is that you made a small investment for your four year old. Yep. What's the deal with that? Allen: Alright, so the biggest thing that I've been learning by talking to people and everything is that people are not people don't have enough saved for retirement. You know, that's like the one biggest thing and people come to us, and they're like, Hey, I, you know, I'm in my 50s, I just got laid off, you know, what am I gonna do? I don't know what to do. I got to figure out how to trade. I'm like, well, you're under a lot of pressure. I don't know if this is the right time, right. And so I didn't want my kids stuff to go through that. So currently, my wife has another business. Mm hmm. And so what we did was, we have three kids, we got a 10 year old nine year old and now she's five. So the little one is five. At that time, she was four, when we started this actually know when she was born is when we started this. So we took the kids, and we found a way for them to earn some money. And basically, we did it as we were their models. So they model and we take pictures of them for advertising, for our website, the brochures for my wife's business. And so the kids get paid for it. And that money then goes into their Roth IRA. Okay, so that they have no, there's no taxes, there's no income taxes on that money that they that they make, right? Because they're minors, and there's a certain limit, so I'm not an accountant. So don't, you know, none of us are, I don't think but when we started, you know, the rule was you can make up to 12,000 As a child, and it would not be taxed. And then you know, who knows what if that's going to change anytime soon, but we could pay them take that money, put 6000 into the Roth IRA. Now, you know, She's five years old. So we've been doing that for a few years. And currently, she has about $50,000 in her account. Now, you, you can look at, you know, you can do the math on any investment calculator. She's five years old, she's gonna retire in 60 years. So you take that 50,000 invested in let's say, an index fund, and you make 8% a year. Right? Compounded for 60 years. How much is she going to have at the end of that? 60 years? It's going to be well over $2 million. Right? That's if I don't put any more money into it. Yep. If she never touches it, she doesn't put anything else. You know, she's gonna have a $2 million retirements on when she when she's done. And, and that's without me doing any of my options stuff or, you know, doing anything.  Dan: There I say better than a college account fund. Allen: Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I mean, part of it is, you know, the money, she's gonna when she takes it out, she, when she retires, she won't have to pay any taxes on it. So we made the money, we didn't pay any taxes on it, she's gonna grow the money and not have to pay any taxes on and then she takes it out and there's so there's like no tax at all. It's like the only loophole I've seen like this.   Kyle: We might need to bleep some of that out just in case. That's interesting. We saw a story not too long ago about a senator proposing a bill to like, and I don't think there's any traction on the actual bill. But what was interesting was the math behind it. He said that I think it was about $2,200 for every newborn, put into an account for him, like that will basically make them retire as millionaires.  Allen: Yeah. I mean, if you start early enough, and you put it away, and you don't touch it, it just compounds and it works. And hopefully, it'll be at the same, you know, average at least 7 - 8% a year that the stock markets been doing historically. So you know, of course, things change in the future. We don't know. But I'm trying to just set these kids up in a way that can help them succeed, you know, and if you if you think about it, like if she doesn't have to worry about saving for retirement, then whatever she makes, she could like, enjoy it. She could give back to our community. She can you know, spend it do it everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Dan: Take care of you hopefully.. Kyle: That's smart. Allen: Yeah, that's the plan. Yes, that's my retirement. Kyle: Tell us a little bit about your company Option Genius. What do you guys do over there? Allen: So it started off as so when you sell options, you know, it's kind of boring. It's very, like I said, it's passive. It takes just a few minutes to put on a few trades, and then just watch him watch and watch. And so when I started doing it, I got bored. And so I would go and I would bother my wife. Hey, what you doing? What do you do? Oh, you're cooking that again? Oh, no. She's like, can you just get out of my hair? And I'm like, Well, no, cuz I don't have anything else to do. She goes, Why don't you like, teach other people how to do what you're doing? Oh, that's a good idea. So I started a website. And the idea was, you know, I'm gonna have one website, and I'll just do my trades, and I'll share them with other people. It'll be a membership site, they'll pay me for it. If they want to do the trades, great. If they want to learn, that's great, whatever. And, you know, hands off kind of thing that started doing really well it started growing and people start asking questions. How do you do this? How do you do? What about this strategy? What about this strategy, and it just grew from one website to many of them three. Now we have three different memberships, we got like three different courses and coaching programs, we got a couple of books out there to spread the word. And eventually, I got to the point where you know what, the emails that we would get from people would be so heartbreaking, that it's like, there's this better way that I think are found, and people don't know about it. Let me, let me expose let me share the message. And so that's really behind what Option Genius is. I mean, you know, not to brag, but you know, I'm trading a seven figure account. And so if I can make, you know, two or 3% on that in a month, I'm living a really, really nice lifestyle. You know, I don't, I don't have a private plane, I don't have a Lambo. I don't need any of that stuff. So we're really doing well. And so this is like, if it works great. If we can help other people great. If not, I can walk away. I don't need it. But we've we've been doing it for a while. And we've really, it's heart warming. When somebody comes in, oh, man, I just did my first trade. And I made 10% Oh, man. And we have we have our own podcast. And I've started to interview our students. And so they come on board. And they're like, you know, I had a small account, but we got one guy. He, we gave him a scholarship. Like every year, we have a scholarship to one of our courses. So he actually won the scholarship. And he's like, you know, I have a small account. It's like $4,000. And he's a teacher. And he does now what you were talking about the wheel. So he learned that from us, and he's doing it. And he's like, hey, you know, I made 30% this year from my wheel. So that goes awesome. Yeah. There's other guys. They're making, like 7, 8% 10%. We had one guy who came in, he lost his job. And then he's like, Hey, I'm in your program. What do I do? I'm like, do the follow up program. You paid for it. He started doing it, you know? And seven months later, he's like, Yeah, dude, I'm making 10 grand a month. I'm like, That's freaking awesome. And he goes, You know what he told me? He goes, I'm going back to work. I'm like, what? He goes, because it doesn't take any time. And I want to go back to work. Whatever floats your boat. Kyle: Learn a different skill. I mean, I guess that's what you want to do. I guess. It's funny though. The more people that we talk to, especially the ones that are really successful, that seems like they all want to give back somehow to the community. Allen: Mm hmm. Kyle: That seems to be a common theme and I don't really think see that in a lot of other industries. Allen: No. I mean, there's only so much money you can make, and it doesn't really make you that much happier anymore. But when you can like to have, you know, the Maslow's hierarchy with a triangle going up to be like self actualized you gotta have significance you got to give back. Mm, Dan: Yeah that's awesome. Oh, boy. Awesome. Okay. Allen: But I mean, you guys are doing that, you know, the podcast, and you guys are helping  Dan: We hope Kyle: Mostly they're learning what not to do. Allen: There's value in that as well. Kyle: Yeah, I think that was our tagline once "Let us lose the money for you". Dan: Oh, yeah, yeah, I've proven myself capable of that time and time again. Mm Kyle: hmm. All right, what else we got on here? And Dan got any other questions here? Dan: Yeah, so when you're starting out some people I mean, I know you mentioned you get somebody started as low as four grand Do you do you give people like a target, like try and get this much money together to start the ball rolling, or you just.. Allen: Um, you know, we say, we say, if you're going to do what we call passive trading, they can start with anything. But if you're going to go into something like just spreads or like futures options, and we say, start with about 10,000. But even then, you want to start off with paper trading, especially if you've never traded options before, because you need to, you need to know what buttons to push and you know, you don't want to hit the wrong button. Instead of the sale, you hit the buy. And it goes backwards. And you got to know what you're doing on the platform, the software, the broker software, before you start putting real money at risk. Dan: Yeah. Kyle: Is there a specific broker that you prefer? Allen: I have most of my money at Thinkorswim and tasty, but it doesn't really matter. Kyle: We've been getting more into Thinkorswim too. Yeah like their their bracket order than other options bracket. It took us a year to figure out the Active Trader even know it existed. But man that made a huge difference. Huge. Oh, you can just drag your stops. Dan: But that's more day trading options. Well, yeah. Well, we talked a little bit real quick, do you ever use the the ThinkOrSwim probabilities when you're looking at selling your options? Allen: Um, so we have a couple of different ways. I use the the desktop Thinkorswim Yeah. And so like, uh, you know, if you're looking at an option, right, you look at the option chain, and it tells you what the delta is, you can pretty quickly find out what is the probability of that option. So if it's delta 20, that means okay, this still this option has an 80% chance of probability of expiring worthless. If it's delta 10. It's got a 90% probability of expiring worthless. So that's kind of like rule of thumb, really quick table math, you know, where you could be like, Okay, I want to do this, or I'll look at the Analyze tab. You know, if it's a more complicated trade, then I'll look at the Analyze tab, and I'll use the numbers that they give me there. Dan: Okay. Okay. I remember that for a little bit with straddles and strangles. But I didn't have much success. Kyle: I think I heard that before with the Delta, but I never I pay attention to it more, because that's tell you how much the underlying will move, right? Like for every dollar that the  underlying moves, then you should see a 30 cent change if it's a 30 Delta, or 20 cent if it's 20. Allen: Yep. But I mean, I don't know how accurate that is, because it always changes all the time. So.. Kyle: Yes, that's true. Allen: It's like I thought it was gonna move 30 cents. Well, your Vega did this and the gamma did that. So. Okay, great. Thanks. Kyle: Plus, now the delta is different. Yeah. We started talking a little bit about crypto. Dan, should we move into move into that? Dan: I would love to talk about it, especially coming from somebody who educated their way into Options success. Do you have anything going with crypto? Allen: So I have been taking advantage of a couple times. We could talk about that. So I'm learning about currently a friend of mine introduced me to I guess they're called alt coins. You know, so I do have some of the big ones, you know, the Bitcoin, the Etherium whatnot. And those I've just holding on to so and then I just started because I have a lot of it. I have it at Coinbase. And so I've put up my Etherium for it was called staking or stocking. Kyle: Staking Allen: Oh, yes. Staking. Yeah, so they hold it on, they hold it for you and they pay you four and a half percent a year. So I'm like, Okay, I'm not gonna sell anyway, I might as well make some most of it. And I think, you know, it's been going up and up. So hopefully by the time I actually want to take it out, it's appreciated. And I will It'll made that four and a half percent, which is pretty good. And so I'm doing that. And then I'm starting to get into these alt coins and trying to figure out which ones are actually going to make it big. And which ones are scams and about, I guess 99% of them are scams. And like so my friends been showing me like, hey, you know, you can tell how much money was used to create this coin, and then are they allowed, are you allowed to sell coins? Or you're not allowed to sell coins? Or you know, what are the different little red flags that go hey, this coin is a scam this coin is a scam this coin maybe not be a scam. You know? And so you know, you put your money in and then if it goes up a little bit, you take your money out, and then you'll play with the house money and then you let it right kind of thing. Kyle: Yeah. So which coins have you found that piqued your interest then? Allen: So the one that I'm getting into right now, I haven't got like I'm pretty new at this. So I'm still learning and looking around. The one that I have found that has a good chance of success right now is called Floki. Kyle: Floki. Like the Norse god. Allen: Uh huh. Yeah Kyle: The trickster god. Allen: Yeah. Floki dot INU Floki.INU. And so his symbol is a dog with the viking helmet.  Okay. So it's it's one of the meme coins, but they're doing a ton of advertising. They're coming out with some actual use for the coin soon. You know, so that one has already gone up in value a lot. And there's probably a lot more to go in my opinion. So that's one that I'm going into. Kyle: What's one that you're that you found some red flags on them? Allen: There's been a bunch. The names I don't know off the top my head but there was one. Oh, it's like world peace earth or something like that. You know, there's like, so there's so many of them. There's like, they call them weird names. Whatever's trending at the moment like just endgame coin and Avengers coin. Dan: Oh, I just read a story that the squid game coin is apparently the creators fleeced everybody. What? Kyle: What, what's your thoughts on hamster coins? Jack Dorsey's favorite. He thinks that's gonna overtake Etherium. Allen: Oh, really? I haven't heard of that one. Dan: Nobody has. Kyle: Nobody has, I know. Dan: Don't listen to Jack Dorsey. That's all I have to say. Allen: I mean, you know, it's so it's, it's like the Wild West is full of gambling. And you know, the guy that teached me about it. He's like, Yeah, you know, we probably have maybe another year or two years before this all this stuff gets regulated. And all these alt coins are just gone.  Kyle: It's kind of started already to Yeah, Mm hmm. I think didn't I see something about the SEC getting authority over was stable coins, stable coins just issued today. Allen: Oh, that's today. Okay. Dan: Biden said if you don't do it, we'll issue an executive order to make it happen? So it's on the way? Yeah, it's happening. They're there. They're the beginnings of regulation. Or I should say not like, we won't get there for a bit.  Allen: So because I mean, we think that, you know, the people behind these coins are like, really sophisticated and smart developers, and they spent all this time and effort, you know, creating a coin. It costs like $1 to make a coin. Kyle: Yeah. Dan and I were actually looking at making our own. Yeah, the two bowls going. Allen: You know, so it's like, yeah, it doesn't take a lot. And it's pretty simple. And people, they're, like, new coins come out every like five minutes. There's a new board. And so it's like, geez, yeah, you're Kyle: Constantly fighting that delusion.  Allen: Mm hmm. So it's interesting. It's something that is, you know, I'm playing with it. But it's money that I can afford to lose. And the bread and butter is still, you know, stock market options trading. Kyle: That's why I was gonna ask you what I mean, because now that you have a real risk manager side to you, like, what's your, how do you limit your risk then onto that? I'm assuming you do it based on like, a small percentage of your portfolio or like this is probably just play around money, right, especially when you're learning? Allen: Yeah. Yeah. So um, you know, I bought 30 grand of Ethereum. And that's is what I'm about to put at risk and all this stuff. So, but some of these coins like they're brand new, right? So they're little, and they can go up 500, 800, 10000% and then they will back down. Yeah. You can have a really big move. And some of the people that I know, they've this year, this past year, and this is why I got into it, because they took like really small amounts, and they've made you know, they have a million dollars or $5 million, or $3 million worth of cryptocurrencies. And I was like, why aren't you selling, you know, yeah. And then they go off and they're like, Well, you know, it's gonna go up more and you know, I gotta pay taxes. I don't want to pay 50 2% taxes or more moved to Puerto Rico and so they have all their reasons for.. Dan: Transfer for a more stable one. Allen: Mm hmm. Kyle: Dan just had this same conversation with a couple of his friends. Dan: Yeah, yeah, mate. Yeah. Kyle: 50% on the latest dip on Bitcoin and then refuses to sell any Kyle: It's 10% Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's like like you're saying like, take your money out. Let let it be house money. Yeah, exactly. Not getting risk on anything come on.  Kyle: And then you got money to reload because it drops again. Yes, I want to have some ammo laying around the to jump into something when the opportunity strikes Allen: Yep. Now I think you guys are you guys are traders you know you guys are watching the markets, you guys are there in the front of the screen, I'm not that much into it, you know, I'll keep my screen open but I'm not checking all the time. And so for me that's a little bit harder. And so, you know, I for my bitcoin and Etherium or whatever I'm not, I'm not selling, you know, even if it dips or goes up, I'm not selling I know I'm gonna hold it for another maybe 10-15 years. So hopefully it keeps going up, but we'll see how it goes. But for now the idea was, hey, just buy it, hold it. And if it keeps going up maybe you add a little bit here and there. So I've been doing that.  Dan: No,but yeah, that's your plan. It's a long term plan. You're not trying to strike it rich the people that are buying into these things trying to strike it rich and then refusing to ever sell. Allen: Oh, that's silly. Yeah Dan: Yes. Like you gotta get paid some point Allen: There was one guy on the had an article where he became a Dodge coin millionaire and he's like, I'm not selling like.. Dan: Oh, no, not a millionaire anymore. Allen: What's the point? Dan: You never were a millionaire, coz you never sold. Kyle: Exactly. Have you come across anything? I guess staking is kind of similar to derivatives. But like, If there comes a time where you can sell calls on your Bitcoin you can do something like that.  Allen: So yeah, so they just came out with, is it bati? I forget the name of it.  Dang it. The the first ETF Bitcoin ETF just came out. Dan: That's Yes, that's right. Um, that was a futures based one too, though, isn't it? Allen: Bitl. There we go. So, that's tradable. And that that has options. So, you know, right now it's at $39. I don't know if that's cheap enough for your wheel. But.. Dan: I think what cuz that's if that's based around a futures contract, it's going to be constantly losing money too overtime, right? Allen: Probably. Dan: Won't you get like double decay if you. So decay of the futures contract. And every time, Allen: Yeah every time they roll it forward a month they lose, right? Because I have all the fees and stuff to pay. So that is something.. Dan: That might be a really good one to sell Options. Allen: Yep. So I mean, I, you know, I've sold some calls on it, because I was like, Okay, if bitcoin goes up, and they're saying, you know, bitcoins gonna be 100,000 by the end of the year, I was like, Okay, I'll sell some calls on it. And or no, sorry, I'll buy some calls. I bought some calls. This is one of the few ones where I'm actually buying calls. Now that trade is still negative. But you know, it's a bet, you know, it's a bet. If it goes up, great. Dan: Yeah, just manage that risk. Allen: Mm hmm. Dan: So let's wrap things up with I want to ask you some questions about just some of the most common mistakes that you see from your students, or just the biggest struggles that they have and how they had to overcome those. Okay, yeah. So if you're going to give us like, just the top couple pitches, see? Allen: Okay, so first off, I would say is that they try to do too much too soon. And so one of the things that I always stress is, Hey, pick one strategy that fits who you are. And just focus on that one strategy, get really good at it, hammer it, do back testing, or get some back testing software, pay for it if you have to, and just do trade after trade after trade after trade until you understand it, until it's like, you know, second nature to you and you're consistently profitable. Only at that time, should you then venture off and say okay, let me add another strategy. Right. So that's the that's the first thing that I tell everybody a second thing is not all strategies are for every person. Mm hmm. Like for me if you told me Hey, you know, I'm gonna put a gun to your head and you have to be be profitable at futures trading, or be like well, you know, goodbye Allen: You know, tell my wife I love here. you know, telling her that life insurance is very well Allen: So it's not for me, you know, my temperament my style, the way I I am the risk temper the the risk appetite that I have is different than everybody else. And so you got to figure out what strategy and there's 1000 strategies and there's every every strategy out there you can make money there are people out there making money with futures day trading and, and Options on futures and, you know, pairs trading and whatever you can think of people are doing it, some of them making money, most are not, but if you find the thing that fits you and you're like, you know what, this this really, really makes sense to me, I really get this, then that's the one that you should focus on. Most people are just like, Oh, hey, you know, I found my friend is doing this or I can make a lot of money doing this or I saw an advertisement, I saw an email, and then they run into it, and then they get blown out of the water. Dan: We actually just had a discussion on that not too long ago, Dan, about, you know, when you try to copy somebody else's strategy, it's not your own, you don't have time and effort that you've got put into learning it, you're not passionate about it. So what you're saying makes a whole lot of sense. Like, yeah, you need to find the thing that speaks to you.  Allen: Mm hmm. And I guess, if I give you one more, it'll be that time goes by a lot faster than we realize, hmm. And so if there are people out there that have already paved the way, and you know, for a fact that they're doing well, then just do what they're doing, you know, or at least learn from them. Yeah, learn from, you know, if you can hire them, hire them, and just see what they're doing, learn, watch their strategies, and just do what they're doing. And hopefully it should work, right. And then you can tweak it once you do what they're doing. And once you're getting good results, then you can start tweaking it and be like, okay, you know, I'm gonna make it a little bit more conservative, a little more aggressive, a little bit this little bit that, but follow the plan first, you know, make it work, and then you add your own twist to it. We have so many people that come in, they're like, you know, I've been following you or I've been listening to you for two years. Okay, how many trades have you done? Well, not really. You know, I've been trying to do it on my own and watching free YouTube videos, like, Okay, well, you only get so far watching free Youtube videos, because you don't number one, you don't know how legit they're right? That's one thing. Anybody can like I say that, you know, any idiot can make a YouTube video. Allen: It used to be hard to write a book, you know, you have to go to a publisher get published and have references and all that stuff nowadays. Man, you put up a PDF on Amazon, it takes like a weekend. So don't be like, Oh, I'm an author. Okay, great. You know, everybody's an author. No. So it's really you got to be really careful of what you listen to. Kyle: Speaking of which, where can they find your book? PassiveTrading.com. Yeah, that's PassiveTrading.com. It's a free book, you know, just pay for the shipping, and we'll ship you out a printed copy of it. Dan: So PassiveTrading.com, we'll link in the description for that. Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners before we sign off here? Allen: No. I mean, it's been a lot of fun. You know, you guys, you guys are awesome. And I love it that you guys are honest. And you share the wins and the losses. Most of the time, you only see oh, I made 1,000,000% Oh, I made 20%. You don't see the losses, you don't see the the nitty gritty behind the scenes stuff. And you guys are showing that. So that's I love that part.  Dan: Well it's the same thing with gamblers too, right? You talk to a guy who goes to the casino and says, Oh, I won $300 last night. Oh, how much did you lose the night before? Yeah. Allen: Um, but yeah, I mean, if people are interested in Options, it's a great, it's a great way to add some passive money, you know? And if that's, if that fits, you know, it doesn't fit for everybody. Like some people, they come in and, and they're like, Yeah, I'm trying to do this, but I'm, I'm doing this and do that. I'm like, Dude, you're too aggressive. You know, if you want to be trading every day or every other day, then this is not for you. You know, find something you can do this part time, and then do with the rest of your time. Play something that fits your style more, but that's really important. You know, find your style, and then it'll just it just a whole lot easier. It's just which is way easier. Dan: What else can they, so we find your OptionGenius.com. You've also got your podcast. Allen: Yep. It's called the Option Genius Podcast. Kyle: Oh, hey. Allen: Yeah, we got really creative with our very own brains. Dan: All right, perfect. Yeah, we'll make sure we link all that stuff. Right. So if anybody wants to find out more they can check it out the description. Kyle: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us Allen, this has been a great conversation all of your your knowledge and experience has been a good time to listen to. We really appreciate you coming by the shop and talking with us today. Dan: Yeah, the hardships too, because I feel like you learn more from those sometimes.  Allen: Mm, yeah. They hit on the head. You know, sometimes you got to do it over and over again. Eventually, they eventually they sink in. Kyle: Alright, well there you have it, folks. We'll have all of that fun stuff in the episode description all those links for you. Any parting word, Allen? Allen: Just you know, I I tell everybody you know, trade with the odds in your favor.  Dan: The odds be ever in your favor. Kyle: It's like in the movie? Kyle: All right. Well, I guess it's time to kick everybody out. You don't got to go home but you can't stay here. Until next time. Happy trades. Allen: Bye, guys.   LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

What is the fastest way to learn Options? I want to learn to trade Allen. What should I do? How do I get there as fast as possible? Nobody wants to take the long way, right? Everybody wants to take the shortcut. Nobody wants to be like, alright, Allen, I want to take 20 years to learn how to trade and make money No, everybody wants it today, they want instantaneous results. Right now right now. So let's go over some of the things that I think can definitely help you, in your Options Trading journey, that can definitely speed up your path, right? Get you to your goal, the fastest. And that is actually number one. That'll be number one on the list is you have to know your why you have to know why you're doing this, you have to know why you're trading, you have to have a deep inner reason. And you know, if I asked you "Hey, why are you trading?" It's gonna be the first and everybody says, "Oh Allen, I want to make more money. Allen, make more money". Yeah. Okay, great. I know, I know that, right? That's a superficial answer. Everybody wants more money, of course. But why? What is it? And we've talked about this before, we've talked about this in our live events, we've talked about this on the podcast, you got to know why. And you got to dig deeper and deeper until you figure out like, hey, you know what, I want more money because I want more security, because I want my kids to have things I didn't have when I was growing up. Because I want to make the world a better place. I want to start a foundation and give back have a legacy. You know, donate money, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. That's your thing. Doesn't matter what it is. Right? But that's going to keep you going. And that's going to help you remember why you're doing this because it's a path. It takes a while it's not overnight that you're going to turn into an Option Millionaire, right? So you need something to keep you going when the times get tough. And they do get tough. markets don't cooperate all the time. You know, we think they're going to do this and they do the opposite. And then we have to adjust, we have to run and sometimes we have losses. So at those times, you might be like, I want to quit. This is not too hard. I can't get this. I don't know, man. I don't know what this what's going on. I think I did everything perfectly. But in the workout, let those times that's when your why kicks in. That's when you realize "No, you know what, I'm going to keep going. Because Allen said I could do this". Yes, Allen said that you can learn to trade options. Okay? So, stick with me. Know your why, number one, number two, the method beats the hours. So when it comes to learning something like trading, right, your method will always beat the number of hours you put into something. So it's not about you know, I gotta trade 10,000 hours like Malcolm Gladwell said in his book. If you do that, that's great. You'll turn into, you know, a world class expert in whatever thing you're practicing, if the practice is perfect, right? It's got to be perfect practice. But we're not even trying to be world class. Right? We're not trying to be one of the top 10 best Option Traders in the world. We're just trying to be profitable. It doesn't take that many hours to do that. But the method the way you do it does make a big difference. Okay, so for example, let's say there's two people driving from Boston to New York City. Right? It doesn't matter how skilled or how committed or smart the first driver is, if he's driving a pickup truck, like a beat up old pickup truck, and the second guy is driving a Ferrari Well, driving number one is going to lose, right? Your method is the vehicle that will get you and become the engine to where you want to go. So with Ooptions, there are dozens of available methods to follow, right? There's lots of experts, so called "experts", quote, unquote, to learn from, this means that you want to spend a lot of time understanding who you're learning from, what credibility they have, and how it fits with your learning and your trading style. Okay, not all trading is suited for all traders. Now, for me, you know, day trading, not for me learn that the hard way, you know, and passive trading, passive trading is not for everybody. If you don't have patience, you're going to get bored, and you're going to wonder. So the process or the strategy that you trade has to mesh with you and your temperament. You got to know yourself, and what trading style or method fits you best. Okay, that's number two.  Number three, we want to apply the 8020 rule, because we want to get success faster, right, we want to get the results faster, we don't want it to take forever. So you apply the 80/20 rule. And really, you should be applying the 8020 rule in just about everything, because 20% of the people in your life will lead to 80% of your happiness. If you have a business 20% of your customers will bring you 20% of your sales. And 20% of what you're learning will give you 80% of your results. Okay, so you might have a list and say, Okay, I'm learning options. Alright, so I got to learn how to do my broker software, I got to learn how to do technical analysis and charting. I got to know how fundamental analysis works on stocks, I got to know how options work and puts and calls and buying options, and I got to know how selling option works. And I got to do this strategy and that strategy. Yes, you can learn all 17 in your lifetime and you won't master it or get good at it. Right? So when it comes to trading, it feels like there's so much we don't know, it's so overwhelming. So it's easy to jump around, you know, learning about a little this, watching that video. Oh, there's another video. Okay, let me watch that over video over here. Oh, let me watch this guy over here. He's talking about something Oh, he's you know, it sounds like this is good over here. That it will only lead to wasted time, what you want to do is you want to focus on the one or two things that will drive the needle for what you want to achieve. And then you double down on them. Right? You go all in? We Don't dabble. You don't want to dabble. Okay, we're going to cover that later. But how do you do this? So you focus on one strategy first. That's one strategy, you pick one that works makes most sense to you. That's the only thing you're going to work on. You trade it, you back test it, you do it over and over and over and over and over again, until it's second nature. How many times? I don't know - the more the better? Right. So while you're doing that you ignore the noise. Okay, you don't need to master 12 different chart indicators. You don't need to trade the stocks with the highest implied volatility. You don't need to watch the financial news every day. You don't need to read every single marketing email sent to you by all the different services and want to be gurus. Cut out all the noise, focus on the 20% which is your trading plan. Your watch list, your strategy, three things, trading plan, watch list strategy, that's the 20% ignore everything else. Number four, learn by doing. We talked about this a little bit in the last one. But we're this is a big one. Immersion going all in diving deep into what you're going to learn is the best way to learn anything. And research shows that humans, okay, as a whole, when we're trying to learn something. When we hear a lecture, we only remember about 5% from a lecture, right? When we read something we learned, we remember about 10%. 10% of what we read, okay? When we do when we hear like an audio visual, you know, maybe like a movie or something. 20% Maybe it's a PowerPoint, and somebody's explaining, that's 20% we remember of that. When we see a demonstration, somebody's actually doing it for us. 30% Remember that only 30%. When we're in a group discussion when we're talking about it with other people we remember 50%. Okay, now we're getting a little bit, you know, this is better now 50you still lose half of it. When you actually practice what you have learned. You remember 75% of it. So you learn something and immediately you turn around and you practice it and you do it that's 75%. If you learn it immediately if you do it immediately, then that's 90%-  so practicing but immediate practicing. Soon as you learn it, you turn around and you do it or you watch a demonstration, you turn around and you do it. That's 90% remembering, right? So you got to do it learn by doing. The fastest way to learn is to get into the trenches and gain experience by making mistakes. Yep, making mistakes. So what do I mean by that? Well, doing 10 trades is better than doing two. Okay, 100 trades is better than doing 10. Now, do we use real money? No, we paper trade, we try to get into trouble, right? We put on trades that we know, hey, this might get me in trouble. So I'm going to have to adjust it, I'm gonna have to play with it, I'm gonna have to money management. So I'm going to learn the skills. The more the better. And the fastest way, and the best way to do more of them is back testing, you get yourself as a back testing software, man, it can cut years off your learning curve, you can take a strategy, and you can take a stock and you could back test years and years and years of trading that stock in an afternoon. You can't do that with real money trading, you can't do that with paper trading. Now, sure, it's not exactly the same as if it's real money. But those are emotions, you can figure that out later, right now, in the beginning, you're just learning the skills, right? You're building confidence. Back testing is probably one of the best ways to do that. Number five, find a coach. So the people that perform at the highest levels, whether they're business owners, whether they're athletes, whether they're musicians, whatever, they all have a coach, every single one of them. According to best selling author, Seth Godin, there are five reasons you might quit anything that you do five reasons, you might run out of time, and then you quit, you might run out of money, then you quit, you get scared of something doesn't always go exactly, you want it right, you might quit. If you're not serious about it, you'll quit. If you lose interest, you can quit. Having a coach allows you to see the blind spots that you couldn't see by yourself, right? And the coach can guide you through the different obstacles. And the tough times that come when you're learning anything new. Because everything is not going to be rosy and perfect, tough times are going to happen. So if you have somebody there that's been through it, that knows what you're doing and knows what they're doing, they've been through it, they have done it before and they're successful at it, they can help you and guide you through. And they can tell you what you did, right what you did wrong, you know, they can analyze it. That's why coaching is such a big part of trading. And that's why, you know, we have services where we give you the trades. And then we also have coaching, where we actually do it with you, then you do it. And then you show me what you've done. And then we work on it together. The people who do that to people who are in our coaching programs, they get results, maybe 1015 times faster, you know, 10 times faster, 15 times faster than the people who are in our memberships. So I mean, there's no shame in being a membership, you just need some trades, okay, fine. But if you really, really want to learn to do this yourself, you got to get into the coaching program. Okay. You know, one of the coolest things is when we have our credit spread Mastery program, you know, we've set it up right now, it's a three month program, you get in, and you're out in three months. And you actually have learned and you've mastered the credit spread. And we do it so many times we go through it, we're there, we're putting the time in, we're not dabbling, you know, we're immersed in it. And we do the process over and over and over again. And you got everything like all the people all this stuff on this list, you have it, we make you do all of them. Right? I make you go through all this, this whole list we do we cover it all in the program plus a lot more. So within three months, people graduate from that program and they are ready to go. They're rocking and rolling. They're happy. Right? So I mean, it doesn't take years and years and years to learn how to trade options. There are shortcuts if you want them. Okay, number 6, process over results. So doing the work is usually sometimes the hardest for some people, okay, actually doing the trades, and just doing it over and over and over again. A common mistake that people make when they're trying to learn how to trade is they focus on their results. They focus on how much money they made, how much money they lost. That's like the biggest thing in their mind. Oh, I made money. I'm doing good. I lost money. I'm doing bad. No, that's not what you should be looking at. Okay, it's important to focus on your process versus your actual performance, because it's hard to see any consistent results until you've put in enough time and done enough trading. That means in the beginning, you are going to lose on your trades. That happens to just about everybody. That's fine because you're learning. That's part of it. Right? That's why you should start with paper trading so you don't lose money. But in the beginning, and I tell this to everybody, that goal is not to make money. I'll say it again, the goal in trading in the beginning is not to make money, it is to become consistent. It is to be able to know and understand the process and the trading plan and say, "Look, this is how I put on a trade", this is what I'm looking for, this is how I manage the trade. And then this is how I get out, either good or bad. Once you stabilize that, once you understand that, if you're not making money, then we just need a couple of little tweaks here and there; and you'll be consistently profitable, right? But we what we don't want is we don't want to do trades, we're doing really well. And then through Bah, we lose everything, and then we do good. And then we lose everything. And then we do good. And we don't want the roller coaster ride. We want safe, stable, consistent. And if you're not making money, when you get there, we can tweak a little things, and then boom, you're off to the races, right? But if normally, if you do follow the plan, and you become consistent, the profits will take care of themselves. Now, Woody Allen said it, you know, it says 70% of success in life is just showing up. It might be even more than that. Just doing the work. Right? taking small steps doesn't really sound sexy. But it's been the proven path to follow. If you want to achieve anything in your life and in your trading. Number seven, writing down what you're learning helps you remember. So when you're learning something, you're going through one of our programs or the podcast, and you're like, hey, I want to remember this, write that stuff down, take notes with your paper and pencil, not typing, you know, I'm old fashioned, don't type it, just write it down. That's gonna trigger between your hand and your brain, it just does something helps you remember, for all my trades, I write them down on paper. Now most of them are also then put on a spreadsheet or something for recording purposes. But I have them all on paper with notes. You know, I have my trading plan there as well. So I know exactly what I'm supposed to do. And in every trade, every trade every single time. So remember, write this stuff down. And then lastly, you got to teach it to others. So find somebody who's interested in learning about options, or at least they'll listen to, maybe they don't care. But maybe you have a spouse or a child or whatever, that'll do your favor and be like, hey, I'll listen to you, okay. And you explain to them what you're learning, you have to take these concepts that you're learning, and you have to explain it to them so that they understand it. Because if you cannot explain something to a 12 year old, then you don't know it enough yourself. You might think you do. But if you cannot explain it properly, you cannot answer their questions. You don't know it enough. And that's like the ultimate tell. Right? Do you know it? You got to be able to answer questions. And if it's too complicated, and they don't understand, then you got to go back to the drawing board, figure out more, learn more, come back, explain it to them. That's when you really, really master something. Okay, because I mean, you think about it, like some of the best teachers in your life. You know, they didn't make stuff complicated. They took hard concepts, broke it down. Maybe they told with stories, maybe they use analogies, you know, they compared it to something else. Right? I heard somebody that we're working with right now, I was explaining to him about trading options, you know, and I was like, hey, you know, there's different ways people trade options are there the the people that say they want to go buy an option, and they want to make, you know, 100% overnight, and then there's us where we're looking to make, you know, five 10% a month. And he got it right away. You know, and he told me, I mean, he this is on him that he was really good at this. He was like, Yeah, well, you know what option selling is really like the Toyota Camry of trading. It's like, you just get in and it just works and just turns he just runs in and runs and runs and is dependable and reliable and consistent. And you don't have to worry about it. It's just gonna work. And I was like, Cool. That's really cool. I gotta write that one down. That's a great way to explain it. I'm gonna steal that one. I'm gonna write that down. Yeah, you know, it's like a very dependable car. It just works. So if you guys are interested in learning more about how to trade options, go man, join one of our programs, check us out OptionGenius.com. and we'd love to have you.   If you are on your trading journey, and if you want someone to talk to about it and say, hey, look, I've done this, I'm done this, what do I need to do next? Then reach out to us, send us an email and we'll have somebody hop on the call with you, hop on the phone, walk you through it, ask you some questions, you know, find out where you are, what you've learned, and then we'll be able to tell you like okay, you know what, we probably think you maybe need to study this more or maybe you need to go in this direction based on your results so far. So we do have that available now. Our team is growing and so we are able to now get on the phone with a handful of people and then you know, give them some suggestions, like, hey, what do I do next? Allen? Okay, well here let's ask you some questions. You know, it takes about 10 minutes on the phone, not a big deal to reach out to us, email us, or look us up on Facebook or whatever. And we will send out a link, you can, you know, schedule a time to talk, and somebody will get on the phone and talk to you as well So, with that, I want to say, have a great time today or the rest of this week and the rest of this month or wherever you're listening to this and trade with the odds in your favor.   LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

Allen: Welcome passive traders. Welcome to another edition of the podcast today I have with me my good friend Alex. Alex is one of our graduates of our credit spread Mastery program and I brought him on to talk about what it was like in the program, what his results have been, and what he sees for the future. Alex, how're you doing today? Alex: I'm doing great. Allen: Awesome. Awesome, cool. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, you know, how you got into options, what you do full time, all that kind of good stuff? Alex: Sure, I worked in the corporate world for about 15 years and always invest in real estate. And in 2015, I left the corporate world to focus 100% on real estate. But as far as option trading, you know, in real estate, there are lulls in activity, you know, whether you're caught up in in building and planning, or, as we were discussing earlier, there's a global pandemic. So the Option Trading provided the prospect of additional streams of income. So I had a good friend that actually a family member has been trading options for decades. And he kind of figured out all the stuff you figured out, and they told me about it. And they basically said, Hey, there's this guy, the Option Genius. Of all the crazy programs and snake oil salesmen out there, you know, they said, This guy's he knows what he's doing. His strategies are legitimate. So that's how I kind of got turned on to your stuff. Allen: Awesome. Sounds good. So basically, it was I mean, you're in California, you know, I know you're doing well for yourself. It was basically I need, I'm gonna diversify income, and I'm gonna just try to learn this new skill, or was it more to it? Alex: No, that's exactly it. I mean, we have multiple streams of income. And we're always looking for additional streams. And this, again, based on the family friend that introduced us to you and your program, and this style of trading, we just seem like a very viable additional stream of income. Allen: So you're not looking to quit what you're doing and just go full time trading. This is something in addition to what you're already doing? Alex: Yes. Yeah. But not not yet. You know, I started out I did your program. I started out slowly, I started with the paper trades. And then.. Allen: Well, that's because you had never traded options before. That was your first time doing anything. Right? Alex: Exactly, exactly. I never traded options. I mocked around in the past with securities, but you know, probably lost a bunch of money doing it. So you know, this is really my first introduction to Option Trading. Allen: And how did it go? Alex: I think it's gone great. I've learned a ton. So like I said, I started out with paper trading. And then probably the end of March, I started with my real trades, I can tell you I did since the end of March, I've placed 46 trades, I currently have three active trades for those three trades. So far, so good. They're set to expire at the end of next week, of the trades I've placed, I had 37 out of 43 were successful. So that's like an 86% success rate, the longest run I had was about 14 successful trades. And you know, so interestingly enough, I started out at the end of March, and then by the beginning of June, I was up by 1100 bucks. So again, these are small trades, like 50 bucks or so and potential earnings and, and so on for potential profit. And then all of a sudden, by the end of June, I was actually at $35. So, so what happened was I placed a few trades, and you know, a bunch of them were the potential profit was somewhere around $50. And then there are other trades that maybe are based on the spread or the actual stock or the option. You know, they were worth 100 bucks, potential profit, or max profit. And some of those just didn't go my way. So that I don't know, if the term the trades weren't exactly balanced. So those six trades took me you know, that didn't go well took me from 1100 bucks down to $35. A couple I made mistakes that, you know, like, one was Amazon, I lost about 250 bucks on that. And that was because I placed a trade too soon after earnings, which and I can hear you in my heads. Oh, the credit spread mastery sessions and we're, you know, we're too close to earnings or not before earnings, but after earnings, you know, and the stock got a little bit of a bump, yeah, after earnings and started heading south. But you know, and then a few others like United rentals or Norfolk Southern, they're just larger trades, and they just didn't go well, or they didn't go my way. So.. Allen: So that was basically you were trying to scale it up a little bit or it was just it just happened that they were.. Alex: It's just at that time. I wasn't aware of it. You know, it's interesting, looking back how much I've learned and how much more aware I am of what's happening in the trades, and I have a better sense of what's a good trade, I have a better sense of what's actually trending well. And since I started I got back on the horse in early July. Since then I'm nine for nine In all my all my trades are somewhere around 100 bucks max profit I made sure that I had, they're all balanced. So if I take a hit, you know, for all the wins that one hit won't wipe me out. Allen: So is that 10%? The 100 bucks? Alex: Yes, yes. Yeah, right. I get out of 10% on every trade. So.. Allen: Okay, so basically, you learned your lesson, you figured out like, okay, hey, this needs to be balanced, they'll need to be the same amount. It'll make it easier for me. And then, since then you've recovered. And now.. Alex: Yeah, at this point, I'm at year to date, I'm at 1040. Allen: Good. Alex: I'm up 1040 so.. Allen: How much are you playing with? Alex: I have 15 grand in the account. Okay. Just, you know, again, just, they're not huge transactions. But again, they're all about max profit, or somewhere around $100. And I'd like to start scaling up. Allen: Yeah, yeah. So I mean, it's a wonderful place to start, you need to go from zero to not knowing anything about options to where you are now, where you're like, Hey, I'm consistently being profitable on these traits. And I think now from (inaudible), I believe you do have that confidence that, hey, you know, what this stuff works? If I follow it, if I do it, and I just, you know, put in put in the effort, it's gonna like you, you it's like an ATM machine that or like a slot machine, you know, putting the money you get the money back, you get more back, right? Alex: No, for sure. For sure. And I you know, it's during the the class, I used to ask a lot of questions. And you would say, just you got to go for it. You got to you got to place the trades. And it's, you know, volume. And I can see that it's the more you do it, the more you develop that sixth sense that you always talk about and you put yourself in a better position to see success. Allen: Yeah, I mean, what I remember is that you were you were trying to overthink it, you know? Yeah, it's like, okay, I'm looking at this trade. And there's just one little thing that is like, not perfect. Do I do it? I'm like yes. Allen: Yeah, like six months from now, they're saying that they're not going to have you know, they're gonna have this problem. Like, no, yeah. Let's put it on and see how it goes. Because, and I love the fact that you are starting out small. I mean, obviously, you can go much bigger if you wanted to. But you're like, hey, you know what I'm going to, you know, play with this, I'm going to learn it. I'm not going to risk a lot. Because a lot of people they come in and they, you know, they start off with big numbers right away. Some people come to us like I had one guy. Just yesterday, before he emailed me, he goes, "You know, I have $9,000 but I can't do this. It's like, why? Because I only have $9,000?" You can't, but you could learn it. Right? I mean You could learn you don't have to use the 9000 to you don't even need 9000 to learn. You can do paper trade, like you did. And you start off and you do it, do it, do it. You gain confidence. And then you put a little bit in each one. And then it just grows and grows and grows. Are you at the point now where you feel that you're going to start putting a little bit more money into each one? Alex: Yeah, like I said, I coming into June, I was doing really well. And then I though there are several trades that that almost basically wiped me out and wiped me out. We're talking less than 1000 bucks. But it didn't Allen: It didn't hurt you. Because I mean, that was your profits that you gave back. You didn't go actually go negative. So.. Alex: No so yeah, so now I'm a little more focused. And I upped each trade, like I said, max profit of somewhere around 100 bucks. And so far, so good nine for nine and, you know, slowly ramp it up. So my, you know, my goal for the year is to end up profitable so that, you know, I see some of your, many of your students have seen incredible success. And some of the some of the people in the very class that I was in and make 1000s of dollars or exponentially grow their, their accounts. I'm happy just to be profitable this year. I'm okay to you know, being slow and steady, you know, are taking that approach. Allen: Looking at the long run, the long term picture. Alex: Yeah, I'm a real estate investor. So, you know, we we, um, you can make a killing in real estate, but we were we're primarily buy and hold. You know, we've, I mentioned we started building houses a couple years ago, but by and large, our strategy has been buy and hold. So.. Allen: And it's worked well for you. Alex: Yeah and we're talking about option trading. We're not talking about buying and holding but my point is, it's about you know, the, the broader horizon or the, you know, thinking about the long haul. Allen: Yeah. And I love it that you understand your temperament. You understand your personality, you know, because sometimes somebody in your shoes where they're like, You know what I want, I want to take it long term, or I feel more comfortable when it moves slowly. And then they start doing something that goes against that and they started like day trading or buying options and trying to make 1,000% overnight, and internally, they can't handle it, you know, emotionally, it's like they don't understand why they're not doing well is because, you know, their temperament or their personality doesn't jive with that way of doing it. So I love that you found a balance, and you're not worried about everybody else, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, hey, you know, this guy made 50% this year. Okay, great. I made 100 bucks, I'm okay, I, you know, I got my confidence, I got my practice, I did it over and over again. And I proved it that, hey, this can this can work for me. And so you have from now until the end of your days to keep doing it, and compounding it and compounding and you know, the effort, you know, like, when you start compounding the money, it just gets larger and larger and larger. So what, you know, $100 right now might not sound like a lot to some people, but that $100 is going to grow and grow. And five years from now, it's going to be 1000 to trade and then 10,000 to trades and 20,000. So, cool. Awesome. So I mean, was there anything that anything that was holding you back? Was there anything that didn't click for you right away,or? Alex: I used to sell software, and I was working in Silicon Valley during the internet boom, you know, the whole dotcom thing. So I dabbled in, in a number of tech stocks and so on. Beyond that, I had zero experience. And as far as options, forget it, I dated a girl that went on to trade options commercially. That's about that was the that's about the extent of my experience with options. So I knew absolutely nothing. And just like the logistics of placing trades, and so on. And so many of the things, we talked about your strategies until you actually do it. For me, personally, I had to do it a bunch of times to really internalize it. You know, like I said, simply, you know, what does it mean, for a stock to be trending nicely, you know, or positively, I have a better sense of what that is, at this point. So yeah, it's interesting, I think this is so much like real estate. In real estate, you always say, trade with the odds in your favor. And, you know, that's what the Option Genius is all about. That's what we do in real estate. I mean, you, you do due diligence, you know, and there's there's definitely luck involved. But if you do due diligence, you're investing with the odds in your favor. You know it's, you know, that's how you ensure success, and slowly, slowly build it up. So but anyway, to answer to go back to your question, I, you know, this is you have to figure out how to actually place the trades which can be a challenge in itself, and really internalizing what all these strategies are and how to actually implement them successfully. It just took a little time, but I don't really feel like there were any major barriers are, or challenges, you know. Allen: So it was just because it was all brand new, just.. Alex: Yeah, yeah. And then mentally, you know, I, I'm doing what works for me, you know, mentally building up the size of my trades, or scaling up, I'm scaling up at my pace based on what works for me, like we were just saying, Allen: Yeah, and I mean, the scaling part of it, it's all, it's gonna be all emotional. Because once you have the skill of finding the trade, putting it on monitoring and and managing it, then it's just a matter of zeros, whether you do one contract or 10 contract or 100 contracts, right? Almost all of it is identical. So the hardest part is being profitable, like you said, and then after that, you can just add to it, and then you just managing your emotions and be like, Okay, I'm taking too much risk. I know, I'm feeling stressed out, I'm going to cut it down, or, you know, or, Hey, I feel good about this. Alright, let's, let's, let's go a little bit, let's put the pedal down a little bit. But I also like the other thing, that in options, there are like 1001 different strategies that people could do, you know, everything from under the sun. But you came in and you join the credit card mastery course where we only do one strategy. And that's the one you learned. That's the one you're still trading you haven't, you know, been like, Okay, I like this. This is good. Now, let me go learn something else. Now, let me go learn another one. Let me go let it go. I know you just stuck to that one. And you're at that point where like, Okay, I'm gonna get good at this one. And then we'll see what happens later on. Alex: No, exactly. I mean, by staying focused, I have a better chance of success. And by staying focus, I am learning so much that I know when I start to expand my strategies, or incorporate other strategies, everything I'm learning now by focusing on this one strategy will benefit me. I know towards the end of the course, we got into some of them some other strategies and some more complex strategies. And I just I said, That's not for me. I can't I don't want to hear it right now. You know, I mean, ideally, I'd like to start acquiring using your strategies and acquiring stocks holding on benefiting from the dividends and so on. I just right now, I'm still focused on the credit spreads. Allen: Great. That's awesome. I mean, you know what you want you going after that.Nobody can fault you for that. So give me a couple of takeaways from your trading journey so far, what have you learned? Alex: Yeah, I think it's, you can trade with the odds in your favor, you can put yourself in a position to realize consistent returns, I think you know, that the credit spreads are one thing, but you know, like, you're saying, that should be a small percentage of your portfolio, I see, I just see a lot of potential, you know, again, I mentioned I sold software for a number of years, I was I was a lot of these tech stocks that were blowing up, I was, you know, interacting with these companies directly. And I never really paid much attention to stocks, I just, I was always a did my job. And then I was, I was investing in real estate on the side. So it's just really opened my eyes to the potential of the stock market and investing and, you know, I, I really look forward to building up a portfolio where I have a stream of dividends coming in, and you know, leveraging your strategies to secure those stocks. Allen: Yep. Yeah. And it's gonna be kind of like, buy and hold, you know, it's gonna be like, Yeah, we're gonna own it, and we're gonna collect income every month. We're just gonna rent those suckers out to like income every month. So what was it that surprised you the most about options? Alex: I don't say how easy it is. But that that, that you can actually implement a specific strategy and get consistent results. And I hope I don't sound like a commercial for Option Genius. But that's yeah, that's like I've always thought, you know, even with all the financial regulations in place, you still don't know what's happening within a company, what decisions they're making, what shenanigans are going on. And it's just, it's not so much about the company, it's about what the stock is doing. I mean, outside factors can impact the performance of the stock, but it's what the actual stock is doing in the market versus the performance of the company is that Is that fair to say? Allen: Yeah, I mean, like when we're talking about when we're looking at our layup spreads, you know, it's a one month trade. So, if something is there, that's going to impact the company a year from now, two years from now, it doesn't make any difference to us. We're only worried about, you know, from the start of the trade to the end of the trade. And then we're not worried about the fundamentals or all that other stuff that that happens. If the trade looks good, we'll get in. If not, we don't we skip, and we don't have to do the same trade on the same stock every month. Right? We can we can vary it and move it around. But that said, we do like, there are certain times where we want to go into the same stock over and over again, because they do have a good fundamental picture. They are growing, they're, they're hiring more people, they're getting more customers, or building revenue or more stores or whatever, you know, and the stock will then continue to trend in our in one direction, which makes it easier for us to figure out okay, how do we want to play this? Alex: So actually, I got into Costco three times since June. They've been going up and up and up, you know? So, yeah. Allen: And the end, the cool thing is that, you know, you take a look at Costco, it's like, oh, this chart is doing really well, the stock is going up. Okay, well, if you had bought the stock at the bottom, or whatever it was, and you had hold it to the top, how much would you have made, compared to if you had done spreads on it, you know, from that same time period over and over and over again, wish would have been better? Well, the spread would have, you know, totally kicked it that the stock might have gone up like 20, 30%, and we've been up like 40, 50%. So you're looking at the same thing, and you're looking okay, do I want to buy it? Or do I want to just sell spreads on it? And the spreads if it's continuing to trend in one direction, the spread will always do better than that. So but is that one of your, you have any other favorites besides Costco that you've been playing? Alex: Not really. I mean, I don't think I've been doing it long enough. I guess SPX is another one I invested in several times since I started trading at the end of March. And I've been I have yet to, that is yet to fail me, so.. Allen: Right. So class started in January, you started with real money in March. Right now it's what is it? Start of September. So March, April, May, June, July, August, September. So seven months? You've been doing it for seven months? Cool. So do you feel that you're confident right now that you understand it? You got to you've if you needed to if you had to you could scale it up right now? Alex: Yeah, I think I think I could. I'm infinitely more confident than I was in January. The revelation that all the trades have to be balanced and so on. June was a turning point. I would say, okay, like I said, I started out up 1100 bucks and then all of a sudden at the end of the month I was at 35 bucks. I'm I'm trying to think what the word is.. Allen: It's like a wake up call? Alex: It's like a milestone or.. Allen: A turning point. Alex: Yeah, a turning point. I am at another level at this point. Allen: Okay. All right. So how long do you think it would take somebody else to to go from zero to okay, now I can actually do this, on average, like, how long do you think it should take somebody? Alex: I would say reasonably, two to three months, being part of your class was super helpful when you have the opportunity to work with someone that, you know, with your level of expertise and knowledge. That was huge. That was tremendous. I mean, every week jumping on the call, and going through watching everything you're doing, and hearing your thoughts about specific trades, and so on. That was that was tremendous. So that helps a lot. So I, you know, for me, it was two to three months where I was, you know, able to figure it out and start trading. Allen: And how much time did you put into the learning aspect and the doing it and focusing and watching the calls and all that stuff? Alex: Yeah. So I made an investment in your programs I wanted to get, I wanted to make the most of it. So we had the class every week, and then I, several times a week, I'd go back and listen to the, you know what, listen to the videos, I say, listen to the videos, I'd pull them up as I was, you know, exercising or whatever. And then I'd stop and make notes either on my phone or in my notebook, you know, but I had, I have notes of every class and, you know, go back and make sure I really understood everything go through with a fine toothcomb and truthfully, I haven't looked at the videos in a few months. But every time I'd go back and review the videos, it was like, oh, you know, it always find half a dozen new gems, you know? So, but so yeah, I would, I would spend several hours a week, in addition to the actual official session we had every afternoon, you know, every year. Allen: So but between between the the class time and the study time and the trading that you did, so, you know, like somebody listening to this, they're like, Yeah, you know what, I want to start this, but how much time should I put into it? How much time should it take me every week that they would devote to this? Alex: Yeah, I mean it's if starting off 5 to 10 hours a week, Allen: 5 to 10 a week, okay. Alex: I would say, you know, just thinking, you know, including the class and going back and transcribing the videos. And then doing my own trades, you know, I did 40. I've done 46 real trades today, but I did 37 paper trades. Some of them were purely recommendations from that you provided with us. So you provide it to the class and others were ones that I found on my own. In several instances, I identified a trade and then a few days later that you selected the same stock for the class. So that was, that was encouraging. But uhm. Allen: Okay. I mean, yeah, cuz sometimes people are like, you know, I work a job. I don't know if I could do this, but five to 10 hours a week, I think anybody, if they're serious about learning a new skill, learning about changing, you know, something that could change their life, potentially, I don't think five to 10 hours a week, is that big of a commitment or sacrifice to do something like this.. Alex: Yeah, no. And, you know, the things don't happen by magic. You know, I always like the the saying, the harder you work, the luckier you get. We create our luck, you know, and now I am nowhere near the expert that you and many people like you are, but you know, probably a couple days a week, I sit down and go through my list looking for trades. And then you know, maybe I have to sit if something's not going right, I have to make an adjustment. But now it's probably an hour, two hours, max per week. And that's, you know, that's being in not even two hours a week. You know, my trades. So.. Allen: Sweet. Yeah, I mean, so took a little bit in the beginning. But then once you got the hang of it, then obviously, it's gonna continue down. And now it's just, hey, it's already ingrained. I know what to do. I don't have to go watch the video and say, oh, what would Allen do in this situation? What am I supposed to do here? What does this mean? Now that you've done it so many times? It's just like second nature, where you're like, Okay, boom, boom, boom, steps up steps already in your head. Alex: Right, exactly. Allen: That was the reason that we did the class and the way we did it, where it's like, every week, we get on the call, and we just go through it step by step by step over and over and over again. So you guys can see it and ask questions along the way. And then you guys go, and you do it on your own. And then when you're like, oh, wait a minute, I got stuck. And then you come back and you say, Hey, I got stuck here. And I know you were the I mean, to be honest, you asked more questions than anybody else. And I loved it. And I was like, Man, this guy is into it. This guy's exciting guy. Yeah, he's doing great, you know, because you kept asking and asking and asking. And it really, really helped. Not only you, but also it helped me because I'm like, Okay, this is where they didn't understand. You know, like, if you came, you ask a question. I'm like, Man, I covered that. Okay, but he didn't get it. So let me go and go more detail. You know, let me make another video to address that specific. So he made the class better. So I wanted to thank you for that as well. Alex: I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm not afraid to ask dumb questions, that's for sure. But no, I mean, we'd kind of kind of compiled a list of all the things that we need to look for in a trade and what makes a good trade. And initially, I would go through my list line item by line item. And at this point, I just didn't, you know, I just, it's, I get it in my head, and I just go through, like you said, boom, boom, boom, and then I'm off to the next thing. So, in full disclosure, I probably spend more time than I need to watching like, a couple times a day, I'll pull up my phone and look at Thinkorswim to see how things are doing. And maybe down the road, I won't do that so much, but I still am curious and think about it during the day. Allen: So well, as you scale, it'll be more and more important to do that, you know, and like, I know, you have the funds that you could put into it. So when you do when you're not so busy and doing the other stuff. And you're like, Okay, let me let me make this a bigger part of the portfolio. At that point. You're gonna Yeah, I mean, but it doesn't even take that long. You know, it's like, Oh, hey, I'm going to the bathroom. Let me check my trades. Oh, okay, cool. Done, you know, but it's, to me, at least it's fun. You know, it's like, it's like, points, like, you're playing a video game. And it's just joins, and they're going up and down. And like, oh, no, I got it. So, to me, it's an interesting part of.. Alex: Yeah, no I really enjoy the process sitting down, I pull up my list, and I just, I go through it, I look at the charts. And, you know, I document, you know, something looks interesting, I write it down, I might do some analysis on it. And then once I go through the list, I come back and, and place my trade. So I really enjoy the process. Awesome. And then like I said, this is just like real estate, we, in real estate, you invest with the odds in your favor. And with the credit spreads and all the other options, strategies, you're investing with the odds, and you're trading with the options in your favor, you know, so just it just makes sense to me. Allen: Cool. So what do you what do you think the future is gonna hold for you now? Alex: I'm, like I said, I'm very interested in the passive trading formula program you have, I just, I want to be I want to, if I do it, I want to be present and focused on it. We're just like I said, we got a lot, we have a lot going on at the moment. But I want to expand my portfolio, I want to expand beyond credit spreads, I want to start using these strategies to buy and hold hold stocks for a longer period of time. And, you know, who knows, like when I'm not when I'm out, you know, as a landlord, fixing a, you know, I'm sitting under a sink, fixing a leaky pipe or chasing a tradesman to do something, you know, to fix something that they messed up on a build. I think about how nice would be to just sit behind my computer and have 100% of my income come from options. Yeah. Allen: You think that's ever gonna happen? Maybe we're gonna make that switch? Alex: Maybe I mentioned that family friend that has that was his has been doing this for decades. I mean, this, this is what he does, you know, he's got a significant stream of income from trading options. I think I told you about him. And I think his he loves Tesla. I guess that's what he focuses on a lot right now or the past so many years. So yeah. But he you know, he has a more than healthy stream of income, some purely from doing that. Allen: Right. Now, do you guys sit down and compare notes or get together? Alex: So I keep saying it's a family friend, this is a really good a couple of you know, it's one of my wife's childhood friends. It's her grandfather. So I talked like, he's the guy I don't, I've met him several times. But a lot of my what I'm sharing comes through the his granddaughter. So I'm actually trying to set up some time to sit down and talk to him specifically about this. Allen: She's the oil program yeah? Alex: He's in the oil program, and then she does she trades options on her or she sells options on her own based on what her grandfather taught her. Allen: That's awesome. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, you can see it right. It goes from generation to generation. And if you can pass that trade along, it's like, Man, my kids, my grandkids, they're not gonna have to work. They'll know what to do. And it's like using your mind instead of your skills and your body to actually go out and manual labor to do something. So it's really exciting. And I think you got lucky in that sense, where, you know, she, she introduced you to this world, but then you took it to the next level, and you're like, Hey, I'm going to learn this and you put in the time, the effort, and now you're seeing that it works. I still want to see you scale it a lot more. Alex: I'm sorry, I can't report huge earnings. But that's.. Allen: No no no, that's fine. It's not it's not about that. It's it's you know, the fact that you're doing it that's that's a that's a good thing, you know, and you're getting there you're doing it but I want to see you get a better for the time that you put in I want to see you get a better income back. You know what I mean? Because I know you could do it. I have I have 100% faith in you. I know you're doing it. I know you know how to do it. But instead of making just 100 bucks I want you to make like 1000 bucks per trade. So it's like, hey, yeah, you know, a little bit more skin in the game. I feel a lot more fun too. Alex: Yeah, you know, I'll tell you so I said in June I that's when I realized like, hey, all these trades have to be the same amount and I need to I need to scale up from 50 bucks a trade and Honestly, going from 50 to 100, was it took a little bit of a leap of faith. But already, you know, just several weeks later, I'm like, what was the big deal? You know? So.. Allen: It's all mental. It's all emotional, you know? And eventually, you know, you'll do it from 100, you go to 200 to 250. How many trades at one time do you put on? Alex: I was doing as many as 10. Allen: Okay Alex: Like the most was was 12. I know you in the class, we talked about just keeping it a manageable level. Now, since since June, it's been Max four trades. Allen: Okay. Okay. So I mean, if you're doing for them, maybe we could do a little bit more on each one. And see how that goes. Alex: Yeah, I mean, we, you know, what, I'm part of the appeal of the passive trading program is to be able to, you know, pick people's brains and get feedback from the group and ask you some of those specific questions. Hmm, maybe I should get on it not. Yeah, that now's the time. Maybe now's the time to just do it, you know? Allen: Yeah. I mean, if you I mean, but you you said, you know, you don't have all that time right now, because you got all the other projects going on. But like you said that it only takes maybe five hours a week to study. So if you got five hours a week, then yeah, you know, go get that one, it's gonna be now that you've understood, probably 80% of it, the rest of it is going to be pretty simple. You know, because now you know, what an option is, you know, what a call is, you know, what a putt is, you know, what a moving average is, you know, all the indicators and, and all the other stuff that we talked about almost 80% of it, you know, now it's like, okay, which stocks do I buy? And how do I do a covered call? How do I do a naked put rows, things you'll be able to pick up very quickly, because you've already got the foundation for it. So it's not going to take a lot of time. Most of the time, we tell people, Hey, do passive first so you understand the basics, like the covered call is the easiest trade, you know, puts are really easy. And then we get into spreads, you went to spreads first, which is fine. Most a lot of people do that. Because the stocks and the covered calls and naked puts they require a little bit more capital. So if you're going into spreads first, that's fine. The other ones will be a little bit simpler to actually understand and implement once you do Alex: Right. And I realize I'm leaving money on the table by not well beyond not doing bigger trades, you know, not doing the naked puts in the covered calls and so on. There's a lot of there's a lot more money out there. Allen: It's all up to you know, when you feel comfortable, and the time is right. You know, you'll you'll feel it inside you. But hey, you know what, now it's time for me to do this. So it's something that people regret. And they kicked themselves. Oh, man, I should have started 20 years ago. Yeah, but you didn't. So don't worry about it. Don't beat yourself up, forgive yourself, you know, let's just move on. Let's just do whatever works for us right now. Let's just be happy with it and move forward. So.. Alex: I'm doing it. I'm doing it. So.. Allen: Oh you're doing great. You're doing wonderful. And so is there anything else that you wanted to share with our audience? Any final tidbits or advice? Alex: Nothing really, I think we've talked about a lot I will tell you one funny story. I've heard you. You've talked about Disneyland a bunch. So we actually we picked up some passes in in May, or June, we went to we went to we went to Disney they had reduced capacity. So they you know, allegedly it was only 25% of their their allowable or max capacity. So we we had the run of the place, It was still pretty crowded. But man, we we got to go on every ride and never waited more than 15 minutes for anything that's outside. It was amazing. But here I am at the happiest place in the world. And my stocks are going sideways, you know, so I'm on the rides and my kids and we'll walk around the park and I keep looking at my phone and I'm watching Amazon go down. And you know, it's funny, you get emotionally involved in the trades. And in reality, it's 200 bucks, it's no big deal. But finally, by the end of day two, you know, I was out of Amazon and a couple other stocks and just I was able to relax. But it was I thought of you because I know you've been to Disney. You've talked about Disney World a bunch and.. Allen: yeah, I mean, if you're going on vacation, or you know, I've had some people they're like, Hey, I'm going into surgery or I'm doing this or do that. It's like hey, if you're gonna be out of it for a while, take the trade off. It's not worth ruining your vacation. Alex: It didn't ruin it, but it just funny that you know that. Like I said, I was at the happiest place in the world. And I had this I was battling with my with my trades, you know? Allen: Well, that's because you're still learning and so it's still a new thing for you. So I get it. It's exciting, you know. Alex: But you know, as far as parting thoughts, it was a tremendous program. I'm so glad I did it. You know when my family friend introduced us to the whole thing. I was just absolutely intrigued. I read your book, I read That book by the Wharton professor of being that the way to really beat the market is by acquiring stocks with dividends. And I wish I did know about this sooner. It's a very viable means of addition, it's proven to be a very viable means of additional income. And I'm really excited to expand what I'm doing and increase the results. Allen: I mean, you know, because of COVID, we did have a market shock, right, we had a bear market because of COVID. And then the government stepped in and they started printing money like crazy. And so since then stocks have been on a roll. So it's been a great time. So you did miss out on that part of it. But I do believe that, you know, once they stopped printing, and once they start raising the rates, things will stabilize a little bit. And then once the economy comes back, or you know, COVID gets a little bit more under control, and the supply chain issues get fixed and things get back to normal. I think the market and the stocks will be a great place to be as well, you know, so you're still a young guy. And so for the next 20 3040 years, there's a lot of appreciation, there's a lot of gains that you're going to have. Because you now have this skill. Right? And so it's nothing to feel bad about that. Oh, yeah, I wish I wish it started. Yeah. But now's as good a time as any to get started. Alex: I agree. Allen: I like I like what you said, but so thank you, Alex, thank you for everything. You know, it was a pleasure having you in the program and can't wait to see you in the passive program. Alex: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. It was fantastic. Really appreciate all the all the knowledge that you shared. Allen: Awesome. Thank you so much. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.  

Did you know that passive traders are some of the happiest traders out there? That's true. I'll tell you why in this episode. So the longer I trade, and I've been doing this, geez, it's been it's been a while. Okay. But it's been a while. And the longer I do it, the more I realize that the only thing that is holding me back, is myself. It's not the economy. It's not the stock market. It's not the Fed, it's not the government, it's not lack of money, or too much money or any of those issues. There's nothing - it's not an external issue. Because all of that stuff can be addressed. And it can be overcomed. It's not that hard. But internally, that's the stuff that takes the most work. Because most of the time, you don't even know what the issue is internally. And so the thing that separates winning traders from losing traders, is mentality - their mentality, specifically, I mean, you can give the same trade to two different traders, and one will win and the other one will lose. I've said this over and over again. Why? Well, mentality, it's their mental state. It's the stuff that they're thinking about. That's what's holding us back. Fear, stress, doubt, lack of confidence. All of these can limit your success in trading and in life. You see it all the time, you see people walking by like, "Oh, my God, this guy should have been so successful, but he's not, why he's not taking the right actions". Why? Because of fear, or stress, or doubt, or lack of confidence. So if you are not as successful as you want to be, the fastest way to fix it, is to work on yourself. Now, I didn't say it was easy, but it's the fastest. So how do you overcome the self-imposed limitations? How do you how do you fix this? Well, sometimes the answer that we're looking for, will not come from the stuff that we already know,right? Einstein said this, I think what they say - it's attributed, the quote is attributed to him, but nobody knows if he actually invented it or not. But the quote was that when you have a problem, you cannot use the same type of thinking, to find a solution for that problem. You have to change your thinking, you have to grow, you have to expand your mentality and look at it from a different way look at the problem in a different light, in order to see the answer, because otherwise the answer would be easier, and you just do it, you wouldn't have the problem in the first place. So in this case, I found an answer. From studies on relationships. Totally different, right? Have nothing to do with trading. What is what is having a good relationship have to do with trading? I'll tell you. One of the most respected experts in marital stability, his name is John Gottman. Okay. Now this guy has shown repeatedly that he can predict with 90% accuracy, which couples will stay together, and which will get divorced. So he can watch you and your spouse for a few minutes. And he'll tell you if you're going to last or not. So not only am I going to tell you why passive traders are happier, and how to be happier. But I'm also going to share with you how to improve your marriage. Looks pretty good, right? Not bad. 2 for 1 in this podcast. All right, you're welcome! All right, the difference between happy and unhappy couples is the balance between positive and negative interactions during conflict. So basically what this means is for every negative interaction you have with your spouse, you gotta have five or more positive interactions. Okay? So let's say your wife comes home, and she says something, maybe she asks you a question that you've already answered 100 times, and you look at her and you roll your eyes, that would be a negative interaction. But if she's sitting down, or you're walking, you know, you go for a walk, or you're in the mall or whatever, and you reach over and you grab her hand, and you hold her hand for a few seconds, that will be a positive interaction. All right? So you have the negative and the positive, couples that stay together, give each other five positive interactions for every one negative. These are just simple things, right? raising your voice, negative interaction. Giving a hug, positive interaction. So if you want to stay happy, make sure your ratio is five or more to one. There you go. Marriage, problem solved. Now, if you want to be a happier trader, you can use the same ratio, five winning trades to one losing trade. Maybe that's why I've never really met a happy day trader. Think about it. If you know people who trade - day traders are not the happiest bunch, they're not usually the most miserable bunch, right? Because they lose on most of their trades. They lose after lose after lose now, now yeah, the losses are smaller, and they try to make it up on one or two big ones. But most of the time, they're losing money. And that affects you mentally. Okay? But as passive traders, we win on most of our trades. So we get positive reinforcement, over and over and over. And that results in what? Well, less stress, more confidence in what you're doing, and in yourself, less doubt that it's going to work or not, because you've seen proof that it works over and over again. And less fear, not to mention more profits. So, you get everything right? You're happier, and you get more money, and the money does not come where you're not happy because of the money. The money comes when you are happier. Does that make sense? The money is a byproduct, you will trade properly when you are happier. And when you trade properly, then the money comes. So the money is the byproduct of trading properly, which happens when you are happier, which happens when you're passive trading. And you're just winning. So if you want a happy relationship, do five nice things for one bad one. If you want to be a happier trader, be a passive trader. Take care folks trader. Trade with the odds in your favor. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.