OwnerRX Podcast with Alan Pentz

Shawn Busse details Kinesis' evolution from a brand design shop to a comprehensive business strategy firm. He highlights the disconnect between traditional marketing education and small business needs, emphasizing the importance of tailored approaches for B2B companies. Sean stresses the significance of brand positioning, company culture, and employee engagement in driving business success, sharing examples of how these focus areas have dramatically improved client outcomes in retention and recruitment.The conversation explores the changing digital marketing landscape, including SEO's declining effectiveness and the shift towards owned media and community building. Sean advocates for a marketing ecosystem that balances digital strategies with face-to-face interactions, noting the crucial role of personal connections in high-value B2B transactions.Throughout, Sean underscores the need for a holistic approach to business growth, integrating marketing, culture, and business strategy. He illustrates this with case studies, including an automation engineering firm that grew from 8 to 32 employees in four years without recruiting fees, purely through brand and social employee marketing. Sean also discusses the importance of creating unique, engaging content to differentiate businesses in crowded markets, and the value of building owned communities and events to foster deeper customer relationships.Episode Highlights:[02:21] Sean’s Background and the Evolution of Kinesis[08:47] The Disconnect Between Marketing Education and Small Business Needs[17:15] The Importance of Brand Positioning and Company Culture in B2B Marketing[25:29] Case Study: Growing an Automation Engineering Firm Through Brand and Culture[35:03] The Changing Landscape of SEO and Digital Marketing[44:43] Building a Marketing Ecosystem: From Digital to Face-To-Face Interactions[51:53] The Future of B2B Marketing and Community BuildingQuotes:"We had a website, I don't know if profanity is allowed on this podcast or not. OK. It literally said uh [expletive] marketing like on the home page and we were a marketing firm... that was one of our most successful websites we've ever built.""I realized this massive disconnect between what is being taught as marketing and what is being needed as marketing, especially in B2B in service based businesses. Huge Gulf.""We took them from eight employees to 32 employees in four years and we paid $0 in recruiters like no recruiting fees. And we did that all with brand, social employee marketing.""I think to do that with employee engagement actually takes a lot more work than people think, I think they think, well, I'll just give that to the hr person and she'll do it.""I think if listeners get anything out of this, I think that's a really good insight that, you know, it's not like I'm saying, like, run away, leave the algorithms, you know, like they do have value... But like conversion to a customer and then long term value means you got to build something that you own."Episode Resources:Shawn Busse on LinkedInKinesis WebsiteAlan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance WebsiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers

Cliff Kennedy introduces Frios Gourmet Pops as "the modern-day ice cream truck," explaining how franchisees operate tie-dye wrapped sprinter vans selling gourmet popsicles. He shares his journey from the oil and gas industry to acquiring Frios in 2018, and the company's rapid growth from 20 to 112 territories. Cliff discusses the franchise model, cost structure, and ideal franchisee profile, highlighting Frios' unique flavors and focus on community events.The conversation explores the challenges of scaling a franchise business, including the concept of "royalty sufficiency" and Frios' fixed royalty model. Cliff outlines his vision for Frios to become the "next Kona Ice" with over 1,000 locations. He and Alan delve into the evolving landscape of B2B marketing, discussing the power of personal branding and social media for business growth.Throughout the interview, Cliff emphasizes the importance of adaptability in marketing strategies. They explore the potential of email marketing and newsletters for customer acquisition in franchising. The episode concludes with reflections on the constant evolution of marketing tactics and the need to stay ahead of changing algorithms and market conditions.Episode Highlights:[02:54] Cliff's background and transition from oil and gas to Frios Gourmet Pops[04:57] The rapid growth of Frios from 20 to 112 territories[08:42] Unique flavors and the infamous pickle pop[13:16] The franchise model and ideal franchisee profile[22:10] The concept of "royalty sufficiency" in franchising[30:26] Long-term vision for Frios to become the "next Kona Ice"[37:31] Leveraging social media for franchise growth and brand building[51:23] The potential of email marketing and newsletters in franchise acquisitionQuotes:"We're the modern-day ice cream truck. Uh, you know, our franchisees all across the country ride around in a tie dye-wrapped sprinter van and sell happiness for 11 is what we say.""There's very few. I mean, less than probably 1% of franchisors in the world are at 1000 or more. So, yeah, you're going into rare air. Um, but I just firmly believe we can do it.""I always say Small stick, build big fires So you got to start a small stick.""You're constantly moving the field goalposts, and no matter what you do, I mean, it might work because you have to be willing not to say, Oh, this is everything you got to be looking. What's next? What's next? Constantly evolving space."Episode Resources:Cliff Kennedy on LinkedInFrios Gourmet Pops WebsiteAlan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance WebsiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers

The episode begins with Tom Hunt explaining his journey from B2B marketing to founding Fame, a podcast agency now generating $3.8 million in annual recurring revenue. Tom discusses overcoming growth challenges by promoting internal talent and shares insights on lead generation through Google ads and LinkedIn content.The conversation shifts to the changing B2B marketing landscape, emphasizing the importance of owned media channels like podcasts and newsletters for building long-term customer relationships. Tom details his success in growing his LinkedIn following and its impact on Fame's hiring and sales.Tom provides insights into podcast strategy, including positioning, episode length, and guest selection. He stresses the importance of consistency in podcasting and the value of using an agency to maintain a regular publishing schedule.Throughout, Tom highlights the increasing importance of personal branding in B2B marketing and fundraising, predicting that founders with strong personal brands will have an advantage in attracting future investment.Episode Highlights:[00:00:20] Introduction to Tom Hunt and Fame[02:48] Tom's background and the inception of Fame[06:12] Overcoming growth challenges and scaling to $3.8 million ARR[09:54] Strategies for LinkedIn growth and its impact on hiring[15:20] The changing landscape of B2B marketing[22:10] Detailed insights into podcast strategy and positioning[29:45] The importance of consistency in podcasting[33:25] Predictions on the future of personal branding in B2BQuotes:"We're shifting from the old way to the new way, and the trends that are making the shift are the fact that it's getting more and more expensive to sell things directly from paid social, SEO is getting harder and harder.""I think there are three things that I started doing differently. But the backdrop is I spent 10 years copywriting, and I like learning the trade, you know.""I'd be curious about your take on those, But what? What I've been hearing is that these big newsletters, you know, that have hundreds of thousands of subscribers like what they're doing. They're doing the meta ads they're doing."Episode Resources:Tom Hunt on LinkedInFame WebsiteConfessions of a B2B Marketer PodcastAlan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance WebsiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers

The episode begins with Chris explaining his background in finance and his decision to acquire System Six in July 2021. He outlines the transition from working in private equity to running a small business, emphasizing the appeal of being directly responsible for driving results.Chris then delves into the details of System Six's business model, providing outsourced finance services to small businesses. He discusses the company's growth since its acquisition, doubling in size to 38 people and $4.5 million in revenue. Chris shares insights on the challenges of scaling, including the strategic decision to invest in leadership infrastructure at the expense of short-term profitability.The conversation pivots to Chris's approach to sales and marketing, highlighting the importance of distinguishing between lead generation and closing skills. Chris explains how he leveraged his experience in the search fund and independent sponsor communities to drive new business, with a focus on recently acquired companies needing finance upgrades.A significant portion of the discussion revolves around System Six's unique "pod" structure for service delivery. Chris details how this approach benefits both employees and clients, fostering a sense of community while ensuring service continuity. He also addresses the challenges and benefits of this organizational model as the company continues to scale.The interview concludes with Chris sharing his long-term vision for System Six, aiming to become a one-stop shop for recurring professional services to small businesses. He discusses plans for expanding into tax services, CFO services, and potentially insurance and HR consulting. Chris also touches on the company's exploration of offshore talent to address capacity challenges and the potential for leveraging industry-specific knowledge and automation to create additional value for clients.Throughout, Chris emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, strategic delegation, and investing in employee development as key factors in successfully scaling a service business.Episode Highlights:[02:48] Chris's background and decision to acquire System Six[06:47] Growth and scaling challenges since acquisition[09:54] Insights on hiring for sales and marketing roles[12:02] The importance of the search fund and independent sponsor community for client acquisition[23:08] Detailed explanation of the "pod" structure for service delivery[30:26] Long-term vision for expanding services and scaling to $50 million[32:15] Exploration of offshore talent and automation in bookkeeping services[38:55] Key lessons learned about delegation and employee developmentQuotes:"When I discovered the path of like, 'Hey, look, you can go buy your own small business and grow and run it yourself,' I mean, to me, that is like the most go deliver results or not. It's all on us in the leadership seat in these small organizations.""Everything we have to do here at System Six is first about, 'Hey, what's the best thing for our team members?' Because they're our business. So we kind of have to optimize for them first.""The long-term goal is a one-stop shop for recurring professional services to small businesses.""As much as you know, you want to grow and go work on new things to cross-sell or everyone wants to do M&A... make sure if you're gonna hand stuff off to your team, that they're actually prepared to do it well. Give them a chance to succeed."Episode Resources:Chris Williams on LinkedIn System Six Website Alan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance WebsiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers

The episode begins with Josh explaining the promotional products ("swag") industry dynamics - how suppliers provide the same products to a sea of distributors who then brand and resell those products. He outlines the challenges of differentiating in such a commoditized space with thin margins.Josh then walks through his innovative outsourced model, partnering with distributors and leveraging overseas virtual assistants paired with US-based order processing software. This approach maximizes profitability compared to the traditional route of taking on more overhead.They dive deep into Josh's corporate store offering, setting up custom e-commerce platforms for major brands to streamline their staff's purchases of branded swag, uniforms, etc. Josh shares his framework for selecting vertical industries and perfecting the logistics to deliver seamless client experiences.The conversation pivots to Josh's growth strategies - consolidating more distributors under his technology-enabled outsourcing system, and positioning as the "Shopify for promo products." His coaching arm, The Swag Coach, emerges as a prime customer acquisition engine by nurturing relationships with distributors.Josh also explores creating a media empire around this niche industry via newsletters, podcasts, and social media for attracting both customers and recruiting distributors into his ecosystem.Throughout, Josh emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, surrounding oneself with growth-minded individuals, and embracing an evolving leadership role from a transactional owner-operator to a visionary CEO.Episode Highlights:[2:43] Overview of the promotional products ("swag") industry[6:12] Josh's innovative outsourced model using virtual assistants[15:20] Unpacking the corporate store concept and revenue streams[22:10] Sales processes across different verticals like corporations vs schools[29:45] The "Shopify for swag" vision of consolidating distributors[33:25] Using The Swag Coach for nurturing the distributor ecosystem[39:17] Building a media empire around the niche via newsletters, social, etc.[42:30] Josh's emphasis on growth mindsets and continuous learningQuotes:"We've tried many, many, many different things and sort of the lifelong learning, professional development space. We don't really do anything where there is, like a lot of existing services.""If you can be in more places, there is the opportunity to seize more things if you can staff it.""I'm trying to get to a much different group of people. I'm trying to talk to the business owners, not people who are just exploring business or, like, kind of wanna talk about a side hustle."Episode Resources:Josh Frey on LinkedInOn Sale Promos WebsiteThe Swag Coach WebsiteAlan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance WebsiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers

The episode kicks off with Zach Rubin explaining the unique concept of Professional Book Club Guru - managing online book club programs for large organizations like companies, alumni associations, and libraries. He provides an overview of their service offerings, revenue model, and how they facilitate engaging literary experiences virtually.Alan and Zach then explore the company's origins, starting as a side hustle book club Zach ran at his old engineering firm. They discuss the pivots, iterations, and the two-year bootstrap journey before it became viable as a full-time business. Zach opens up about the mistakes, dead-ends, and lessons learned along the way.The conversation shifts gears as they analyze the different revenue streams - corporate book clubs, author talk series for public libraries, and the rapidly growing school programs. Zach shares insightful growth numbers, employee counts, key metrics, and how the dynamics vary across these verticals. They also examine the unique sales processes and marketing strategies employed.Looking ahead, Zach reveals the significant potential in the school market space, expressing his passion for inspiring children's love for reading and writing. However, he grapples with the constant tension of exploring new opportunities versus maintaining an intense focus on a single path for maximum acceleration.Throughout the dialogue, Zach showcases an impressive drive for lifelong learning, continuously upskilling himself and his team. He emphasizes the importance of reading, sharing book recommendations, and picking the right people who embody a growth mindset.Episode Highlights:[2:43] Overview of Professional Book Club Guru's services[6:12] Early days bootstrapping the business as a side hustle[15:20] Breaking down the different revenue streams[22:10] Sales processes and marketing for different verticals[27:45] Massive potential in the school market for growth[33:25] The constant dilemma of new opportunities vs focus[39:17] Zach's passion for inspiring kids' love for reading[42:30] Emphasis on continuous learning and a growth mindsetQuotes:"We've tried many, many, many different things and sort of the lifelong learning, professional development space. We don't really do anything where there is, like a lot of existing services.""Why do we even hire people? We hire people to do something to produce some kind of output. And if you're hiring a contractor that's defined in the scope of work in the contract, and that's the definition of an output. But when you're hiring an employee, we often just say, Well, you get good people on the bus and everything is gonna be fine. But what does that mean?""If you can be in more places, there is the opportunity to seize more things if you can staff it."Episode Resources:Zach Rubin on LinkedInProfessional Book Club Guru WebsiteAlan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance WebsiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers

The episode kicks off with Nick Muzzatti providing an overview of Snap Entertainment, an arcade game rental company catering primarily to corporate events and private functions like Bar/Bat Mitzvahs in the DC, Maryland, and Virginia areas. Despite the challenges of the pandemic, the business bounced back stronger, crossing $1.2 million in revenue for 2023.Alan and Nick explore the financial dynamics, with Nick's high gross margins after labor costs and the capital-intensive nature of constantly investing in new arcade machines and equipment. They analyze smart equipment purchasing strategies if the business was operating at $50 million across 30 cities.The core of the discussion revolves around Nick's aspirations for strategic growth and expansion into markets like Philadelphia. Alan provides a pragmatic framework for documenting processes, testing demand cost-effectively, and evaluating criteria for establishing a foothold versus going all-in. Franchising the model emerges as an intriguing avenue, allowing corporate-owned locations to refine systems before franchising.Nick opens up about the harsh realities of the pandemic, getting perilously close to shutting down. He shares how he personified the "never give up" spirit, taking on side hustles like junk removal and package delivery to stay afloat. The comeback reinforced his passion for the entertainment space.Throughout the dialogue, Nick showcases an inspiring drive to keep evolving, clearly articulating his transition from an owner-operator lifestyle business to a visionary CEO role. He's committed to continuous learning and self-improvement required for scalability.Episode Highlights:[2:43] Nick's background and overview of Snap Entertainment's services[6:12] Financial dynamics - revenues, margins, capital requirements[15:35] Evaluating expansion strategies: Going deep in Philly or other markets[21:50] Building a documented scalable process before franchising[26:38] Nick's savvy approach to testing demand cost-effectively[36:11] Pandemic challenges and Nick's "never give up" hustle[43:08] Nick's embrace of the visionary CEO role for scalability[45:52] Potential for manufacturing Nick's own arcade games long-termQuotes:"I think feeling bored is actually the signal from the body that there is something deeper that hasn't been tapped into yet. The exercises that we use bypass the frontal lobe and tap into the nervous system to uncover that path.""As a business owner, there is some level of when you leverage yourself a little bit and you remove the safety net and you give yourself, as they say, kind of burn the ships...that drives me to succeed.""We got through that. But, you know, the scars are that it's part of the debt that we're getting out from under, you know, that I alone and that, that stinks. People love to say, oh, it's great. It's low interest. It's over 30 years. But at the end of the day, it's a bit of an obligation hanging over your head."Episode Resources:Nick Muzzatti on LinkedInSnap Entertainment WebsiteAlan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance WebsiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers

The conversation kicks off with Greg's philosophy that most financial statements obfuscate the core drivers of a business. He advocates focusing on labor as it creates revenue, not the other way around. Greg outlines his pioneering "Labor Efficiency Ratio" which measures gross margin against total labor cost. He demonstrates how analyzing this ratio, along with the splits between direct and management labor, illuminates operational strengths and identifies underperformance. Greg emphasizes that beyond just a health diagnostic, these ratios guide strategic labor deployment.The dialogue dives into Greg's insights on achieving exceptional returns on invested capital, targeting at least 50% for most businesses. He outlines a framework for calculating the true equity invested and setting profit targets accordingly, illustrating the superior returns small businesses can generate.Alan and Greg discuss Greg's "100 Company Model" - an aggregated real-time data set across industries that provides unique economic insights. They analyze current trends showing an "upstairs-downstairs" economy, with management failing to adjust labor despite declining revenues for a third of companies. Greg stresses monitoring rolling 3-month labor and profitability metrics to navigate market volatility. He advocates building a capital buffer to withstand potential shocks after the 2024 election. Throughout, Greg emphasizes making data-driven decisions rather than relying on intuition alone.Episode Highlights:[2:15] Focusing on labor-driving revenue instead of revenue-driving labor[7:00] The "Labor Efficiency Ratio" framework[10:48] Using DL/ML ratios to analyze labor strategy beyond just diagnostics[18:22] Achieving exceptional 50%+ returns on invested capital[28:00] Insights from Greg's "100 Company Model" data set[40:24] An "upstairs-downstairs" economy with mismanaged labor costs[43:30] Monitoring rolling 3-month metrics to navigate volatility[48:30] Advocating for data-driven decision-making over intuitionQuotes:"The numbers are not unique, and we have perpetrated this crime upon entrepreneurism.""You can't make one general statement about the economy and be correct.""If you carry inventory, how much gross margin do you get for a product you don't have? Nothing.""You've got to look at it and say, 'Am I capital efficient or not?'"Episode Resources:Greg Crabtree on LinkedInSimple Numbers websiteAlan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance websiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers

Aleksey Chernobelskiy brings a wealth of expertise to this episode, having worked as an SVP at Store Capital overseeing underwriting for their massive real estate portfolio, before starting his own business advising limited partner investors. He provides a enlightening behind-the-scenes look at how to properly evaluate private real estate deals as an LP.Aleksey emphasizes the importance of not blindly transferring one's risk tolerance from entrepreneurship to investing. As an LP, you have less control, so assumptions around things like future valuations, rent growth, interest rates and refinancing must be rigorously stress-tested. He highlights common downsides that LPs often overlook, like depreciation recapture and tax inefficiencies for non-real estate professionals.The conversation dives deep into impacts of the current market environment, with deals from 2020-2022 facing major challenges like plunging valuations, rising rates, and financing difficulties. Aleksey explains the harsh realities of capital calls and preventative equity cramdowns that LPs are now navigating. He provides a pragmatic perspective on which asset classes may be more resilient.Throughout the dialogue, Aleksey stresses the need for LPs to truly understand the risks rather than being lured by rosy tax benefit projections or inflated returns. He offers tips on analyzing sensitivity to variables like exit cap rates and renovation costs. The discussion also covers Aleksey's transition into entrepreneurship with his newsletter, podcast, courses and consulting services tailored to LPs.Quotes:"I think feeling bored is actually the signal from the body that there is something deeper that hasn't been tapped into yet. The exercises that we use bypass the frontal lobe and tap into the nervous system to uncover that path.""The broad strokes is digital ops is AI tools plus global talent plus automation. The underlying idea is that you're designing processes and workflows and digital infrastructure in order to support the use of AI and automation and a global remote team to lower your cost structure and increase your task volume.""I think 90% of those LPs don't understand. Then you have to keep in mind like when you see a few hundred million, it might be in the billions, by the way, I don't know. But when you see those numbers, it's like, Oh, like you know, that's one check from, like, a pension fund. Like, what's the big deal? Right? But the reality is we're talking about people that have invested 50K."Episode Resources:Aleksey Ivanov on LinkedInLP Lessons WebsiteLP Lessons PodcastAlan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance WebsiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers

In this episode of the Small Business Mentor podcast, Alan Pentz is joined by John Seiffer, known as @BetterCEO on Twitter. John is a CEO coach and author of the book "Output Thinking". Join them as they discuss John's framework for defining and tracking employee outputs to boost productivity and scale a business. They also dive into John's Stages checklist model for analyzing a company's growth phase.John shares the story of building and eventually exiting a VHS rental business for apartment complexes that he started with a partner in the early 1990s. The business model involved renting and rotating movie collections to properties on a monthly basis. Despite technological disruption from DVDs and streaming, the business lasted until 2016, even outlasting Blockbuster and Netflix's DVD-by-mail service.The conversation then turns to John's Stages checklist, which defines the characteristics of Stage 1, 2 and 3 companies across dimensions like owner focus, people, energy, accounting, and wealth. John emphasizes that most small businesses are Stage 1 "owner job" companies with little enterprise value, and cautions entrepreneurs looking to acquire to really understand what stage a target company is at.Finally, John explains the core concepts from his book "Output Thinking". He argues that business owners often get frustrated by the disconnect between what they expect employees to produce and what actually gets done. The solution is to concretely define the outputs required for each role and use that to hire, train, and evaluate staff. John breaks down how to implement an output-based approach in a knowledge business.If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts, instructions on how to do this are here.Quotes:"Why do we even hire people? We hire people to do something to produce some kind of output. And if you're hiring a contractor that's defined in the scope of work in the contract, and that's the definition of an output. But when you're hiring an employee, we often just say, Well, you get good people on the bus and everything is gonna be fine. But what does that mean?""If you own the company, it's what you want, not just the money. It's the lifestyle, the things you do at work...Those things that you want will drive your business decisions unconsciously or consciously. You're better off bringing them up to the conscious level and saying, Yeah, I'm gonna build this company the way I want.""Outputs are produced in two ways. They're either produced by Grandma who's got intuition, experience or they're produced by a repeatable system, and we start with documenting what the output is. Then you back into saying, OK, what's the system that produces that output?"Episode Resources:John Seiffer on LinkedIn@BetterCEO on TwitterAlan Pentz on LinkedInCorner Alliance WebsiteThe Small Business Black Holes Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at fame.so Check out our three most downloaded episodes:Defining and Tracking Outputs: The Key to Employee Performance with John SeifferSmall Business Strategies and Market Dynamics with Jon Matzner, President at Lazy LeverageFranchising: The Best Business Model with Brian Beers