Cosmosis [Formerly The UFO Rabbit Hole]

In this episode, I wanted to do something a little different. As the community continues to metabolize the stunning allegations by high-level intelligence official turned UFO whistleblower, David Grusch, and with more people waking up to the significance of this story everyday—the thing I’m hearing the most is just that people want to talk. We want to connect about this. If there’s anything that I’ve learned over the past few years it’s that this process of dismantling our consensus reality and coming to grips with a new one that shakes the foundations of every paradigm we have is a team sport. We’re meant to do these things in community. Two weeks ago, I had the opportunity to spend the weekend with a bunch of really bright, like-minded people that I’ve met through doing this work, and it was honestly magical. We’ve come a long way in this conversation with the public-at-large, but for most of us who have a deep interest in this topic, we still find ourselves censoring and compartmentalizing to protect ourselves from the stigma we might face for simply considering these ideas. And so being able to gather with a group of people and let down those walls and give voice to the thoughts and hopes and anxieties that emerge when you’re coming to terms with the realities of a highly advanced, non-human presence on this planet can be a massive relief. It’s healing and I’d argue that it’s necessary.But I know how rare those moments are, and I know that there are so many people who are more than ready to have those conversations, but who still haven’t found a safe place for that. And so I wanted to do my best to bring one of those conversations to you.So this week, I sat down with my friend and colleague, Nathan, to chat about what this journey has been like, some of the stumbling blocks we’ve hit along the way, and how we can move forward into this strange new reality in a way that is healthy and productive. And I knew that Nathan would be the perfect person to have that conversation with. Nathan uses a mononym because, like so many in the community—including, I assume, many of you listening—he’s a serious guy with a serious job who doesn’t necessarily want to advertise his interest in UFOs. But though you won’t find his last name online, what you will find is a bunch of phenomenal work. Nathan is the co-host of two great podcasts—Liminal Phrames on which he collaborates with Darren King (AKA ExoAcademian), and Calling All Beings, which he co-pilots along with a bunch of other wonderful contributors in the space including D.J., Deb, Leah Prime, and a rotating lineup of other friends.What I appreciate so much about Nathan is his rational yet deeply human-centered approach to the UFO phenomenon. He manages to navigate the deepest and most treacherous waters of this topic while still remaining grounded and without ever losing focus on the things that matter most—our relationships and connections with each other. Nathan is exactly the kind of friend that you’d want to have this kind of conversation with, and I hope you enjoy this chat as much as I did. And may we all move forward from this episode with the intention of being that kind of friend for others who will soon be going through this, too. NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowGET THE EPISODE BRIEFFOLLOW NATHANOn TwitterLiminal PhramesCalling All BeingsGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

Today, we’re circling back to an idea that we visited in one of the earliest episodes of the podcast—the extratempestrial model. Sometimes also referred to as the future human hypothesis, the extratempestrial model is the idea that the UFOs phenomenon might represent advanced humans and human descendents who are traveling here from another point in time. I’ll admit to struggling with this idea at first. Time travel has always seemed a little too clunky and a little too hokey to be taken seriously. But as so often happens on this trip down the rabbit hole, the more I learned and the more my perspective began to swell and shift to accommodate the strange new realities I was exploring, the more what once seemed like a kind of crazy idea to me suddenly started to make a heck of a lot of sense. And I found that many of my objections had more to do with the limitations of my knowledge than the limitations of the extratempestrial model. So I wanted to come back around to this idea, because there is a lot there to dig into, most of which didn’t make it into the initial episode. And there are some new and updated ideas that I think are really valuable in understanding the complexities of the phenomenon. And there’s no better way to take a deep dive into this topic than with one of the people who literally wrote the book on the extratempestrial model—Dr. Michael P. Masters. Micahel Masters is a professor of biological anthropology at Montana Technological University. He specializes in human evolution, osteology, and anatomical sciences. Dr. Master’s work related to the phenomenon explores the potential evolutionary trajectories of humankind, linking anthropological theory to hypotheses about extraterrestrial life. He is the author of several books on the topic including Identified Flying Objects: A Multidisciplinary Scientific Approach to the UFO Phenomenon, The Extratempestrial Model, and his latest, a satirical science fiction novel called, Revelation: The Future Human Past.NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowGET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonTIMESTAMPS00:30 - Introduction07:20 - What Is The Extratempestrial Model?09:50 - The Extratempestrial Model & The Interdimensional Hypothesis11:29 - The Social & Biological Trends That Hint At The Extratempestrial Model16:32 - Technology & The “Other”20:48 - Technological Variability In Humans21:02 - The Communication Problem25:38 - How Technology Is Shaped By Biology28:52 - Exotic Bipedal Beings32:17 - Could Humanoid Beings Be The Result of Biomimicry?37:08 - Are UFOs Time Machines?43:50 - The Nimitz Incident47:18 - Rethinking The Impossible49:57 - The Block Universe59:02 - Revelation: The Future Human PastBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

In this episode, we explore the complexities of confronting the reality of UFO disclosure. Information that significantly challenges your worldview can be hard to process. In light of UFO whistleblower David Grusch’s recent allegations—that the US government is in possession of non-human craft and bodies—even those within the community who thought that they were ready for these kinds of revelations have found themselves reeling. In this episode, we discuss ontological shock—what it is, how to cope with it, and how to avoid the major pitfalls. And we work on beginning to resolve our ontological shock but getting ourselves reoriented in a world where nothing is as we once thought it was. No matter where you are in your journey, I hope this episode offers you something that you can take for the road. And if you know people who are just starting out, or who are finding themselves feeling disoriented right now in ways they can’t identify, this is a great episode to share with them.NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowGET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonTIMESTAMPS00:00:30 Introduction00:05:30 Ontological Shock00:07:29 The Signs of Ontological Shock00:08:42 The Pitfalls of Ontological Shock00:14:07 Resolving Ontological Shock00:16:47 What Exactly Are We Dealing With?00:19:00 How Has Perception of the UFO Phenomenon Changed Over Time?00:19:11 -UFOs: 1947 to Present00:23:48 -UFOs: Before 194700:29:13 What Forces Have Shaped & Influenced The Perception Of UFOs00:29:44 -Cultural Context00:36:47 -The Government00:50:38 -The Media00:57:47 -The Phenomenon01:00:25 Who Can You Trust?Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

On Monday, June 5th, 2023, a story was published by The Debrief presenting claims from the first whistleblower to step forward publicly since the passing of UAP whistleblower legislation with the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act a few months ago. This whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, is a high-level member of the intelligence community, and he is claiming to have knowledge of special access programs that have recovered non-human technological craft. Later that same day, an excerpt from an interview with the whistleblower conducted by investigative journalist, Ross Coulthart, was aired on NewsNation in which Rusch made even more shocking claims—including the allegation that the US has also recovered the bodies of the non-human pilots of these craft.In this episode we do a deep dive into this story, doing our best to frame it within the great context of the disclosure movement, and ask the question: what does all this mean? And can what David Grusch is saying really be true?NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowGET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonTIMESTAMPS00:30 Introduction03:14 What Makes This Story So Significant?07:10 Why Wasn’t The UFO Whistleblower Story In The New York Times?10:02 What Led Up To This?10:17 -Luis Elizondo & the 2017 New York Times Article12:31 -The UAP Task Force14:02 -AARO16:50 -2023 NDAA17:10 What Is David Charles Grusch?20:10 Who Did Grusch Talk To?20:42 What Did Grusch Tell Congress?23:35 Wait—So David Grusch Never Saw The Craft Or Bodies?27:19 How Do We Know David Grusch Is Who He Says He Is?27:57 -Karl E. Nell28:27 -Christopher Mellon29:13 -Jonathan Grey30:43 -Jim Shell31:32 Retaliation and Disclosure of Urgent Concerns34:02 David Grusch’s Interview with Ross Coulthart37:08 Thoughts on the Interview40:23 The Implications of Grusch’s Allegations47:57 Pentagon Response48:14 What Can We Do?Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

In this podcast, Mike Clelland, author, illustrator, and researcher, discusses topics such as owl synchronicities in UFO abductions, the transformative nature of anomalous experiences, the use of owls as screen memories in UFO cases, and the motivation and writing process behind his latest book, 'The Unseen'. The podcast also touches on the challenges of understanding and accepting experiencer narratives and explores the concept of paradox syndrome and its overlap with weirdness and absurdity.

Today we’re diving into Part 2 of the Waking Up Inside The Cave series. If you haven’t listened to that part 1 yet, I highly recommend that you do so first. It’s linked in the episode brief. For many who take the trip down the UFO rabbit hole, there comes a point where you find yourself asking much bigger questions about reality. It boils down to this:The UFO phenomenon is impossible by every single measure that we use to determine such things, and yet it is. And the existence of the impossible posits that the models that we use to determine what is possible and what isn’t are irretrievably flawed. There is no other logical explanation. Frankly, if UFOs don’t make you question the nature of your reality, you haven’t understood them. In part 1 of this series, we took a closer look at the most fundamental mean-making models that we have starting with the very origins of the universe. And I made the case that very little about this narrative makes any kind of rational sense, and that its only real utility lies in explaining things away without actually explaining them at all. When exposed to the harsh light of objective interrogation, the consensus view of reality quickly dissipates like morning fog. Plato’s Cave has become a touchstone in this podcast because it provides the perfect framework for discussing the process of pursuing this line of questioning. And as we begin to recognize that consensus reality is little more than a shadowplay on the wall, the inevitable questions arise:Where are we? What is this place? And what is the shadowplay meant to conceal?We discussed back in episode 18 in my first interview with James Madden that humans are natural cave builders. All of the greatest achievements of civilization have required that we be able to create shared worldviews and agreed upon meanings for things. It’s our superpower every bit as much as it is our weakness. And I think it’s important to keep in mind that just because we find ourselves in a cave doesn’t necessarily mean that someone put us there. The walls of the cave could be entirely self-created. And yet, when you find yourself tied up in a cave and recognize that the very nature of your reality has been concealed, seemingly intentionally, it’s impossible not to wonder about who your potential captors might be–and about what strange new world might be waiting for you outside its walls. Over the past several years a strange and disturbing idea has been popularized by everyone from futurists to tech billionaires–namely that we are living in a simulation. Could this be the explanation for the strange position in which we find ourselves? Could Plato’s Cave be more than just an allegory? Could what we perceive as our reality actually be our prison?It sounds like the plot of The Matrix, but the more we learn, the more likely this unsettling scenario becomes. Buckle up, because this rabbit hole is going to be a wild ride.NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowGET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

Ryan Sprague is the creator and host of the Somewhere in the Skies podcast and the author of the new book Stories from Somewhere in the Skies. He is a regular on Ancient Aliens (History Channel) and a lead investigator and co-host of Mysteries Decoded (CW Network). Sprague’s research finds him interviewing witnesses, scientists, military personnel, and intelligence officials directly on UFOs, writing for The Debrief. Speaking on UFOs, he has been featured on ABC News and 7News Australia. He has consulted for Amblin Entertainment and been featured in Newsweek, The NY Post, and VICE.NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowGET THE EPISODE BRIEFMORE FROM RYAN SPRAGUEBooks by Ryan Sprague:Stories from Somewhere In The SkiesSomewhere In The Skies: A Human Approach To The UFO Phenomenon WebsiteFollow Ryan on TwitterFollow Somewhere In The Skies on TwitterBECOME A PATRONFOR ALL INQUIRIES ABOUT THE OHIO UFO HERITAGE CONFERENCEPlease contact Jon Horvath at theufofestival@gmail.comGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Avi Loeb. Dr. Loeb was the longest serving chair of Harvard's Department of Astronomy from 2011–2020. In June 2020, he was sworn in as a member of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology. And, most relevant to today’s conversation, he is also currently the head of Harvard’s Galileo Project whose mission is the systematic scientific search for evidence of extraterrestrial technological artifacts.NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowGET THE EPISODE BRIEFMENTIONED IN THIS EPISODEThe article written by Avi Loeb & Sean Kirkpatrick: Physical Constraints on Unidentified Aerial PhenomenaFOLLOW THE GALILEO PROJECTWebsiteTwitterCONTACT IN THE DESERTSee Dr. Avi Loeb, Graham Hancock, George Noory and many more incredible speakers at Contact in the Desert taking place June 2-4, 2023.Tickets are on sale now: https://contactinthedesert.com/BECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOK|Get a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

Today we welcome back Dr. James Madden to the show. As I’m sure you’ll recall, Jim joined us a couple of months ago for a discussion about Plato’s Cave. We also discussed some of his latest work applying the philosophical concept of the umwelt to the UFO phenomenon. And I was really excited to see that that episode has become one of the most listened to episodes of the podcasts, because it’s definitely one of my favorites. If you haven’t listened to that episode yet, I highly recommend that you go back to that one first. Jim’s work builds on itself, and it will be helpful to lay down the foundation with that episode before moving onto this one.In this episode, we’ll be moving on to Dr. Madden’s latest work. Over the last few months, in a flurry of articles released through his Substack, Jim has laid out a series of arguments as to the nature of the UFO phenomenon that are, frankly, mind blowing. It’s not over-stating things to say that what Jim has done is to essentially break ufology–and I mean that in the best possible way. Because, in many ways, it’s been clear to anyone who is really paying attention that the traditional models and ontologies that have dominated modern ufology have needed to break. We began this podcast talking about what the UFO phenomenon might be, and we did a deep dive into the primary hypotheses including extraterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional, extraterrestrial, etc. And all of those models are really useful for helping us to push our thinking about what the intelligence behind UFOs may represent. But if we’re being really honest with ourselves, we have to admit that none of them really fit. They come close in some ways, fall short in others, and ultimately leave us feeling like we’re trying to stretch a full-sized sheet over a queen-sized bed. What we’ve needed–desperately–is a model that would collapse all of those ontological categories and integrate them into a larger, more coherent whole. And I’d argue that what Dr. Madden is postulating with regard to the UFO phenomenon does exactly that. I truly believe that what he is pointing to here is the future of ufology. This work is urgent and critically important for us moving forward.NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up NowGET THE EPISODE BRIEFDR. JAMES MADDEN’S WORKThe SubstackArticles Referenced In This Episode:UFO Realism and the Uber-UmweltUnidentified Flying HyperobjectMagonia as HyperobjectThe UFO, Religion, and Our Epistemic VulnerabilityFOLLOW DR. JAMES MADDENWebsiteTwitterOTHER WORK REFERENCEDHyperobjects: Philosophy and Ecology after the End of the World (Posthumanities) by Timothy MortonThe Third Table by Graham HarmanThe Will to Power by Friedrich NietzscheThus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for Everyone and No One by Friedrich NietzscheBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

Dr. Iya Whiteley, a space psychologist, discusses her background in psychology and cognitive engineering. She talks about designing equipment and training programs for extreme environments, improving the reporting culture around UFOs, and the transformative power of engaging with babies. They also explore the concept of an Earth language and the power of curiosity and communication.