

Law and Chaos
Liz Dye
Ignorance of the law is no excuse! That’s true for a traffic stop, and it’s true if you want to participate in whatever’s left of American democracy. If the events since the 2016 election taught us anything, it’s that tuning out is not an option. Legal journalists Liz Dye and Andrew Torrez break down the week’s most important courtroom stories, so you can keep on top of this crazy news cycle. Whether it’s Texas giving two middle fingers to the Supreme Court, or Donald Trump in all the courts at once, we’ve got you covered.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 25, 2025 • 57min
Ep 153 — The Shadow Docket Gets Shadier
The Supreme Court can’t be bothered to do real law — but they still expect trial judges to read their minds and treat those nebulous shadow docket orders like binding precedent. And that invisible ink precedent says that Trump can fire anyone, anywhere, at any time. Abrego Garcia is still dancing on the knife edge between Trump’s DOJ and his DHS. And we explain why the current state of our media is all Hulk Hogan’s fault. Links: SCOTUS Shadow Docket Order Trump v. Wilcox https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a966_1b8e.pdf SCOTUS Shadow Docket Order Trump v. Boyle https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/25a11_2cp3.pdf Harper v. Bessent Docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69951586/harper-v-bessent/ Abrego Garcia v. Noem [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69777799/abrego-garcia-v-noem US v. Garcia [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70475970/united-states-v-garcia Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Jul 22, 2025 • 1h
Ep 152 — Trial Judges Know What’s Up
Today on the show the First Circuit is reversing DOGE’s “DEI” cuts at NIH. Trump is suing the Wall Street Journal for defamatory reporting that he was friends with that pedophile he used to party with all the time. And trial courts are calling SCOTUS’s shadow docket bluff. Plus, Alina Habba is headed for the exit. Links: SCOTUS Shadow Docket Order Dept. of Education v. California https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a910_f2bh.pdf American Public Health Association v. National Institutes of Health https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70621936/american-public-health-association-v-national-institutes-of-health/ CREW v. OMB https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69858087/citizens-for-responsibility-and-ethics-in-washington-v-office-of/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Jul 18, 2025 • 59min
Ep 151 — This Is All The Supreme Court’s Fault
What do Trump’s plans to fire Fed Chair Jerome Powell, level illegal tariffs, and stuff the court with his cronies have in common? They’re all the fault of the Supreme Court’s six conservatives. Then we’ll take a break from … all this … and learn some more civil procedure from Justin Baldoni. Links: Can Trump Actually Fire Fed Chair Jerome Powell? https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/can-trump-actually-fire-fed-chair SCOTUS Order in Trump v. Wilcox https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a966_1b8e.pdf Lively v. Wayfairer https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69510553/lively-v-wayfarer-studios-llc/?order_by=desc Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Jul 15, 2025 • 47min
Ep 150 — SCOTUS Allows Trump To Burn Down Department of Education
The Supreme Court is handing out lit matches and gasoline to the arsonist in chief and inviting him to burn down the Department of Education. Attorney Pam Bondi keeps inventing new ways to be corrupt, and none of them have to do with Jeffrey Epstein. And DHS is now kidnapping IP along with actual human beings. Plus, for subscribers, we’ll talk about an effort by Americans United for the Separation of Church and state’s efforts to save the Johnson Amendment from the DOJ’s collusion with the Christian right. Links: Trump v. Selzer https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69476247/trump-v-selzer/ US v. Plastic Surgery Institute of Utah https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66735053/united-states-v-plastic-surgery-institute-of-utah/ Two-thirds of the DOJ unit defending Trump policies in court have quit https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/two-thirds-doj-unit-defending-trump-policies-court-have-quit-2025-07-14/ Black Rebel Motorcycle Club Instagram C&D https://www.instagram.com/p/DL8JVH7OIJ-/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=63f144d7-f9ed-4213-8170-f6432849d3fb US v. Amesty https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69553068/united-states-v-amesty/ Judge Orders ICE Goons To Stop Racial Profiling And Start Following The Constitution https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/judge-orders-ice-goons-to-stop-racial Vasquez Perdomo v. Noem https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70594806/pedro-vasquez-perdomo-v-kristi-noem/ Supreme Court stay New York v. McMahon https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a1203_pol1.pdf National Religious Broadcasters v. Werful https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69105317/national-religious-broadcasters-v-werfel/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Jul 11, 2025 • 54min
Ep 149 — You Cannot Lie (To Judges) When Whistleblowers Have Receipts!
Trump’s executive order stripping citizenship from children of immigrants has been enjoined again. Will the Supreme Court burn down another plank of civil procedure just to avoid ruling on it? And DOJ whistleblower Erez Reuveni is dropping receipts! He’s got all the texts and emails that prove Trump’s henchman Emil Bove ordered the DOJ to defy court orders. That’s going to make it a lot harder for his former colleagues to lie to judges in immigration cases, and those judges are already PISSED. Plus Republican state AGs in Florida and Missouri are wilding out. And for subscribers, let’s talk about Trump’s threats to tariff Brazil for prosecuting former president Jair Bolsonaro. Links: Barbara v. Trump [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70651853/barbara-v-trump/ MO AG Andy Bailey threatens AI for MEAN TO TRUMP https://ago.mo.gov/attorney-general-bailey-fights-to-expose-big-tech-censorship-of-president-trump-as-ai-chatbots-produce-fake-news/ Erez Reuveni Whistleblower Disclosures https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/dem/releases/durbin-releases-documents-corroborating-justice-department-whistleblowers-allegations-against-embattled-trump-judicial-pick-emil-bove J.O.P. v. Department of Homeland Security [District Court Docket] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15867241/jop-v-us-department-of-homeland-security Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Jul 8, 2025 • 46min
Ep 148 — Trump Cancels Laws…For His Friends And Donors
Mike Lindell’s sparklemagic lawyers find out that sometimes ChatGPT ends with Rule 11. Then we visit Elon Musk and Sam Altman for a lesson in civil procedure. After that Andrew and Liz explain how Trump can’t actually un-ban TikTok via presidential edict and break down the latest Supreme Court efforts to burn down the judiciary. Plus for subscribers, Nate Silver — who only gambles for fun, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise! — is right about the Republicans’ trillion dollar tax heist??? Links: Coomer v. Lindell [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63296393/coomer-v-lindell/ Musk v. Altman [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69013420/musk-v-altman/ D.V.D. v. Department of Homeland Security [Trial Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69775896/dvd-v-us-department-of-homeland-security/ Department of Homeland Security v. D.V.D. [SCOTUS Docket] https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/24a1153.html EO 14166 (TikTok ban) https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/application-of-protecting-americans-from-foreign-adversary-controlled-applications-act-to-tiktok/ FOIA production re TikTok https://embed.documentcloud.org/documents/25989866-25-3980-nd-cal-response-07032025/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Jul 4, 2025 • 54min
Ep 147 — Happy Birthday, America?
We may not know how to fix America, but we can tell you the law of fireworks! Plus the latest on Kilmar Abrego Garcia and what it tells us about how Homeland Security is carrying out Trump’s deportation regime. Plus, Trump’s lawyers are learning so much about civil procedure by getting their asses kicked all over Iowa. Links: Hundreds of Jan 6ers Are Hoping For Big DOJ Payday https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/hundreds-of-jan-6ers-are-hoping-for-big-doj-payday US v. Russell [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70627303/united-states-of-america-v-russell Abrego Garcia v. Noem [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69777799/abrego-garcia-v-noem US v. Garcia [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70475970/united-states-v-garcia Trump v. Selzer [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69476247/trump-v-selzer/ World Population Review of Fireworks Laws by US state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/fireworks-laws-by-state Federal Hazardous Substances Act, 15 USC Ch. 30 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-30 “Banned Hazardous Substances” regulations, 16 C.F.R. 1500.17 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/1500.17 Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Jul 1, 2025 • 58min
Ep 146 — The Conservative Justices Seize Power
The Supreme Court’s recent decisions highlight a significant shift in authority, with conservative justices redefining legal norms. They’ve sidelined lower courts and limited doctrines like nationwide injunctions and stare decisis. The discussion dives into cases like Mahmoud v. Taylor, where religious parents can opt their children out of LGBTQ+ educational content. There’s also scrutiny over recent rulings affecting voting rights, gender discrimination, and the balance between parental control and children's rights, revealing the ongoing legal battles in America.

Jun 27, 2025 • 1h 4min
Ep 145 — SCOTUS Aims For Photo Finish … Gives Us Disaster Porn
The podcast dives into the Trump administration's contentious relationship with the judiciary, uncovering attempts to influence judicial appointments. Recent Supreme Court rulings on civil rights and healthcare access spark urgent discussions. The impact of political maneuvering on justice is explored, particularly concerning whistleblower revelations. Mixed reactions to significant sentencing reforms and electoral changes highlight the complexities of legal evolution. Additionally, Tatis Jr.'s legal battle shines a light on ethical dilemmas in sports funding.

Jun 24, 2025 • 1h 2min
Ep 144 — Don’t Make Us Side With Disney And Harvard
The Supreme Court’s howler monkey wing greenlights Trump’s third country renditions without notice and cuts the legs out from underneath the entire federal judiciary. So much for CJ Roberts, protector of the courts! And the Ninth Circuit lets Trump steal California’s National Guard for a fictitious emergency. In better news, Harvard gets an injunction against the government’s effort to kneecap it by blocking foreign students. And Disney takes on Midjourney, the AI company whose business model appears to rest on wholesale copyright infringement. Links: Supreme Court Shadow Docket Order DHS v. DVD https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a1153_l5gm.pdf President and Fellows of Harvard College v. United States Department of Homeland Security [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70349156/president-and-fellows-of-harvard-college-v-united-states-department-of/ Newsom v. Trump [Trial Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70496361/newsom-v-trump/ Newsom v. Trump [9th Circuit Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70527602/newsom-et-al-v-trump-et-al/ US v. Abrego [TN Criminal Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70475970/united-states-v-garcia/ Disney v. Midjourney (C.D. Cal.) [docket via CourtListener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70513159/disney-enterprises-inc-v-midjourney-inc/ Midjourney Terms of Service https://docs.midjourney.com/hc/en-us/articles/32083055291277-Terms-of-Service 2022 Midjouney interview in The Register https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/01/david_holz_midjourney/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod