

Law and Chaos
Liz Dye
Ignorance of the law is no excuse! That’s true for a traffic stop, and it’s true if you want to participate in whatever’s left of American democracy. If the events since the 2016 election taught us anything, it’s that tuning out is not an option. Legal journalists Liz Dye and Andrew Torrez break down the week’s most important courtroom stories, so you can keep on top of this crazy news cycle. Whether it’s Texas giving two middle fingers to the Supreme Court, or Donald Trump in all the courts at once, we’ve got you covered.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 8, 2024 • 1h 10min
Ep 19 — All The Trump That’s Fit To Print (Feat. Anna Bower)
This weekend Donald Trump compared himself to Nelson Mandela. Liz talks with Lawfare’s Anna Bower, who lives out of a suitcase covering the Trump trials beat, to see if she agrees. Plus, WTF is going on with Trump’s bond in the New York civil fraud trial? Links: Trump’s Lawyers Told the Court That No One Would Give Him a Bond. Then He Got a Lifeline, but They Didn’t Tell the Judges. https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-bond-disclosure-appeals-court-hankey Businessman behind Trump's NY bond says he charged him a 'low fee' https://www.reuters.com/legal/businessman-behind-trumps-ny-bond-says-he-charged-him-low-fee-2024-04-05/ US v. Trump [SDFL Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490069/united-states-v-trump/ People of NY v. Trump [Court docs via Just Security] https://www.justsecurity.org/89089/clearinghouse-2016-election-interference-case-manhattan-district-attorney/ State of GA v. Trump [Court docs via Just Security] https://www.justsecurity.org/89123/clearinghouse-georgia-election-interference-case/ Special Counsel Threatens To Go To 11th Circuit, Reminds Judge Cannon What Happened The Last Time She Tried This Shit https://abovethelaw.com/2024/04/special-counsel-threatens-to-go-to-11th-circuit-reminds-judge-cannon-what-happened-the-last-time-she-tried-this-shit/ Trump NY Bond Just As Kosher As His Financial Statements https://abovethelaw.com/2024/04/trump-ny-bond-just-as-kosher-as-his-financial-statements/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Apr 5, 2024 • 1h 12min
Ep 18 — The Chief Justice That Caught The Car (Feat. Mike Sacks)
Liz talks to veteran legal journalist Mike Sacks about the Supreme Court and the decades-old plan to enshrine minority rule into law. How did the Chief Justice wind up frantically tapping the brakes as his own conservative colleagues are going pedal to the metal? And WTF is going on with Judge Cannon in the Trump docs case? Links: US v. Trump [SDFL Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490069/united-states-v-trump/ Special Counsel Threatens To Go To 11th Circuit, Reminds Judge Cannon What Happened The Last Time She Tried This Shit https://abovethelaw.com/2024/04/special-counsel-threatens-to-go-to-11th-circuit-reminds-judge-cannon-what-happened-the-last-time-she-tried-this-shit/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Apr 1, 2024 • 53min
Ep 17 — SCOTUS Looks Ready To Terminate Mifepristone Case (Feat. Susan Rinkunas)
Have anti-choice astroturf groups gone too far? Will SCOTUS save medication abortion from the loons at the Fifth Circuit? Liz discusses the arguments in FDA v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine with reproductive rights reporter Susan Rinkunas. Links: FDA v. Alliance Hippocratic Medicine, Transcript and Audio of Oral Arguments https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/audio/2023/23-235 The ‘WTF Is Happening’ Guide to the Supreme Court Abortion Pill Case, by Susan Rinkunas https://www.jezebel.com/the-wtf-is-happening-guide-to-the-supreme-court-abortion-pill-case How Hobby Lobby Could Be Trump’s Reproductive Rights Wrecking Ball, by Susan Rinkunas https://newrepublic.com/article/179622/hobby-lobby-comstock-alito-contraception Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine v. FDA [District Court Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65768749/alliance-for-hippocratic-medicine-v-us-food-and-drug-administration/ Alliance Hippocratic Medicine v. FDA [5th Circuit Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67164167/alliance-hippocratic-medicine-v-fda/ Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine v. FDA [SCOTUS Docket] https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/23-235.html Comstock Act, 18 USC § 461 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1461?quicksearch=18&quicksearch=461 Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Mar 29, 2024 • 1h 5min
Ep 16 — Can You Weirdos Knock It Off With the TikTok Bans! (Feat. Corbin Barthold)
States are banning it, employers are blocking it, and now the US government is trying to steal it. What’s with all the noise around TikTok? TechFreedom’s Corbin Barthold explains why politicians need to take several giant steps back and stop trying to tell kids how to do the internet. Links: A Breakdown of the Bizarre Factions Fighting Over the TikTok Ban Bill, by Corbin Barthold https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/tiktok-ban-bizarre-factions-strange-bedfellows H.R.7521 - Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521 TikTok v. Knudson [Trial Docket, MT ban case] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67413418/tiktok-inc-v-knudsen/ MT SB419 https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billhtml/SB0419.htm Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Mar 25, 2024 • 1h 17min
Ep 15: Trials And Judgements And Bonds, Oh, My! (Feat. Mitchell Epner)
Liz discusses all the Trump civil and criminal trials with New York litigator Mitchell Epner. Will Trump be able to pay that $454 million bond with the proceeds from taking Truth Social public? We’ll break it down. Links: Carroll v. Trump (I) [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18418220/carroll-v-trump/ Carroll v. Trump (I) — Denial of Rule 59 Motion https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045.212.0_1.pdf US v. Trump [SDFL Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18418220/carroll-v-trump/ SDFL — Order re Jury Instructions https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652.407.0.pdf Trump v. ABC [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68351681/trump-v-american-broadcasting-companies-inc/ Trump SPAC Disclosure to SEC https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1849635/000119312524036093/d408563ds4a.htm Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Mar 22, 2024 • 1h 5min
Ep 14 — Our Ethics-Optional Supreme Court (Feat. Gabe Roth)
Recent revelations have shone a spotlight on the Supreme Court’s broken ethics rules, and boy are the justices mad about it. We talk to Gabe Roth, executive director of Fix the Court about the problem and what to do about it. But first, a breakdown of Trump’s appeal of Judge McAfee’s denial of the motion to disqualify DA Fani Willis in Georgia. Links: Fix the Court https://fixthecourt.com/ O.C.G.A. § 5-6-34 https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2020/title-5/chapter-6/article-2/section-5-6-34/ Motion for Certificate of Immediate Review https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24485326/trump_motioncertificateimmediatereview.pdf Certificate of Immediate Review https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24489448/mcafee_certificateimmediatereview.pdf Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Mar 18, 2024 • 59min
Ep 13 – What a Difference Fair Maps Make (Feat. Jamie Lynn Crofts)
Liz talks to voting rights expert Jamie Lynn Crofts about the court order which forced Republicans in Wisconsin to surrender their stranglehold gerrymander. How will fair maps affect the Badger State? And what lessons can we learn for the country as a whole? Links: All Voting Is Local https://allvotingislocal.org/ Clarke v. Wisconsin Election Commission, OPINION https://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/DisplayDocument.pdf?content=pdf&seqNo=745249 US v. Trump [SDFL Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490070/united-states-v-trump/ State of Georgia v. Trump [Court Docs via Just Security] https://www.justsecurity.org/89123/clearinghouse-georgia-election-interference-case/ State of New York v. Trump [Court Docs via Just Security] https://www.justsecurity.org/89089/clearinghouse-2016-election-interference-case-manhattan-district-attorney/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Mar 15, 2024 • 1h 1min
Ep 12 - Trump’s First Trial (Feat. Diana Florence)
Liz talks to Diana Florence, a litigator in New York who spent 24 years in the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office. They break down the upcoming Trump trial for creating false business records as part of the scheme to disguise the Stormy Daniels hush money payment as legal fees. What should you expect in the first Trump criminal trial? Tune in for a former NY prosecutor’s take! Links: Trump Notice Regarding Advice of Counsel Defense https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Just-Security-NY-2016-Election-Interference-Trump-Clearinghouse-%E2%80%94-Trump-notice-concerning-his-intent-to-rely-on-an-advice-of-counsel-defense-March-11-2024.pdf Trump Motion to Exclude Evidence and Adjourn Case Based on Presidential Immunity https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Just-Security-NY-2016-Election-Interference-Trump-Clearinghouse-%E2%80%94Trump-motions-to-exclude-evidence-and-for-an-adjournment-based-on-Presidential-Immunity-March-11-2024.pdf People’s Notice Regarding the Production of Records from the US Attorney’s Office and Consent to Adjournment https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24481447/20240314-peoples-notice.pdf Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Mar 11, 2024 • 1h
Ep 11 - Why Are Arizona Republicans So Weird? (Feat. Tom Ryan)
Liz talks to Arizona litigator Tom Ryan about how his state’s GOP learned to stop worrying and love the loon. We’ll cover all Kari Lake’s litigation — she’s having no luck as a plaintiff, and even less as a defendant. And we’ll talk about what’s next for Democrats and Republicans in the Grand Canyon State. Links: Richer v. Lake Complaint https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23858088-richer-v-lake Petersen v. Fontes Case Docs (via Democracy Docket) https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/arizona-2023-election-procedures-manual-challenge/ US v. Trump (SDFL Docket via Court Listener) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490069/united-states-v-trump/ GOVERNMENT’S OPPOSITION TO DONALD J. TRUMP’S MOTION TO DISMISS COUNTS 1-32 BASED ON PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652.376.0_1.pdf Jonathan Nez for Congress https://www.jonathannezforaz.com/ Kirsten Engel for Arizona https://www.engelforarizona.com/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Mar 8, 2024 • 59min
Ep 10 - Ken Paxton: A Cartoon Villain Finally Goes To Trial (Feat. Dan Solomon)
On the eve of Ken Paxton’s trial for securities fraud — a mere nine years after he got indicted — Liz talks to Texas Monthly reporter Dan Solomon about the state’s embattled Attorney General. How much worse has he gotten since surviving impeachment? Will he play a role in a future Trump administration? And is this literally hell we are living in now? Links: Carroll Bond Ruling https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.543790/gov.uscourts.nysd.543790.315.0.pdf Ken Paxton Argues That Ken Paxton Has Violated Ken Paxton’s Right to a Speedy Trial, by Dan Solomon https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/ken-paxton-securities-fraud-trial-delays/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod