
Law and Chaos
Ignorance of the law is no excuse! That’s true for a traffic stop, and it’s true if you want to participate in whatever’s left of American democracy. If the events since the 2016 election taught us anything, it’s that tuning out is not an option. Legal journalists Liz Dye and Andrew Torrez break down the week’s most important courtroom stories, so you can keep on top of this crazy news cycle. Whether it’s Texas giving two middle fingers to the Supreme Court, or Donald Trump in all the courts at once, we’ve got you covered.
Latest episodes

Jun 6, 2025 • 1h 3min
Ep 139 — You Get A Civ Pro, And You Get A Civ Pro…
Justin Baldoni’s lawyers are wilding out, the Justice Department is suing to purge North Carolina’s voter rolls, and Pillow Pumper Mike Lindell is teaching us about journalism shield laws. And for subscribers: Have Trump’s minions discovered one weird trick that will allow them to steal Congress’s tariff authority? Links: Kingdom v. Trump https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69717615/kingdom-v-trump/ Trump's Justice Department examining pardons issued by Biden https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-justice-department-examining-pardons-issued-by-biden-2025-06-02/ US v. Navarro https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63359365/united-states-v-navarro/ J.G.G. v. Trump [District Court Docket] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69741724/jgg-v-trump/ Wayfarer Studios v. Lively https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69550325/wayfarer-studios-llc-v-lively/ Lively v. Wayfarer Studios, LLC https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69510553/lively-v-wayfarer-studios-llc/ Coomer v. Lindell https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63296393/coomer-v-lindell/ Covington & Burling tariffs article https://www.cov.com/-/media/files/corporate/publications/2016/12/law360_the_presidents_long_forgotten_power_to_raise_tariffs.pdf 19 USC 1338 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/19/1338 US v. North Carolina State Board of Elections [docket via Court Listener] ttps://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70380331/united-states-v-north-carolina-state-board-of-elections/ Help America Vote Act, 52 USC 21083 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/21083 Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Jun 3, 2025 • 1h
Ep 138 — Trump Admin Courts Contempt In Every Court At Once
The Trump Administration is putting the Justice Department in a terrible bind. DOJ lawyers can tell judges the truth and admit that the government is deliberately violating court orders. Or they can bob and weave and prevaricate and cross their fingers and hope it all comes out okay. But that strategy is running into a brick wall as courts are increasingly ruling against the government. Plus for subscribers: How low will SCOTUS go to protect the sacred right to walk around with a giant murder cannon slung over our shoulders? Links: The Trump Administration Is Lawless. Judges Are Adapting. https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/the-trump-administration-is-lawless Judge Russell Standing Order https://www.mdd.uscourts.gov/sites/mdd/files/Amended%202025-01.pdf Trump v. Selzer [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69476247/trump-v-selzer/ Arevalo Millan v. Trump [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70294725/darwin-antonio-arevalo-millan-v-donald-j-trump/ Melgar-Salmeron v. Bondi https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70409956/melgar-salmeron-v-bondi/ SCOTUS Orders List for June 2, 20025 https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/060225zor_4f15.pdf J.O.P. v. Department of Homeland Security [District Court Docket] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15867241/jop-v-us-department-of-homeland-security Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

May 30, 2025 • 1h 9min
Ep 137 — Trump’s Bad Week In All The Courts
This week Trump got his ass kicked in courts no one’s ever heard of! From tariffs to immigration, Harvard to WilmerHale, it’s been a week of losing bigly. Andrew and Liz will break it down and explain what’s next. Links: Harvard College v. Department of Health and Human Services [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69921962/president-and-fellows-of-harvard-college-v-us-department-of-health-and/ V.O.S. Selections, Inc. v. Trump [District Court Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69888953/vos-selections-inc-v-donald-j-trump V.O.S. Selections, Inc. v. Trump [Federal Circuit Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70394463/vos-selections-inc-v-trump/ WilmerHale v. Trump [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69807328/wilmer-cutler-pickering-hale-and-dorr-llp-v-executive-office-of-the/ Jenner & Block v. DOJ [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69807126/jenner-block-llp-v-us-department-of-justice/ MTA v. Duffy (Congestion Pricing) [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69652290/metropolitan-transportation-authority-v-duffy/ D.V.D. v. Department of Homeland Security [Trial Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69775896/dvd-v-us-department-of-homeland-security/ Department of Homeland Security v. D.V.D. [SCOTUS Docket] https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/24a1153.html The Punch That Launched Trump’s War on American Universities https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/trump-college-university-federal-funding-fight-91c2a274 How to Hide a Constitutional Crisis https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/05/legalistic-noncompliance/682927/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

May 27, 2025 • 1h
Ep 136 — Trump Announces Plan To Break Law. Gets Immediately Enjoined. Again.
President Trump’s genius plan to announce that he’s about to violate the First Amendment — and then do it! — runs into the judicial buzzsaw as two federal courts restrain his attacks on Harvard and the law firm Jenner & Block. And his campaign’s lawsuit against Iowa pollster Ann Selzer continues to be a humiliating series of self-owns. But SCOTUS hands the administration a win by allowing the president to fire anyone and everyone. They exempted Fed Chair Jerome Powell for, uh, reasons. Links: Jenner & Block v. DOJ [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69807126/jenner-block-llp-v-us-department-of-justice Trump v. Selzer [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69476247/trump-v-selzer/ Trump Allies Look to Benefit From Pro Bono Promises by Elite Law Firms https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/25/business/trump-law-firms-pro-bono.html Trump v. Wilcox [Supreme Court order] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a966_1b8e.pdf Seila Law v. CFPB https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-7_n6io.pdf President and Fellows of Harvard College v. DHS [docket via CourtListener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70349156/president-and-fellows-of-harvard-college-v-united-states-department-of/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

May 23, 2025 • 58min
Ep 135 — Deadpool Teaches Civ Pro & Church And State Are Still Separate (For Now!)
It’s been another wild week of injunctions, executive orders, and just plain insanity from the Trump administration. Then, we’ll let Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni teach us about civil procedure. And for a deep dive, we discuss a surprising recusal from Justice Barrett that preserves what’s left of the separation of church and state. Links: How Trump Officials Debated Handling of the Abrego Garcia Case: ‘Keep Him Where He Is’ https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/21/us/politics/trump-abrego-garcia-el-salvador-deportation.html Judge James Ho Public Meltdown https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca5.224134/gov.uscourts.ca5.224134.25.1.pdf D.V.D. v. Department of Homeland Security [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69775896/dvd-v-us-department-of-homeland-security/ Somerville Public Schools v. Trump [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69778837/somerville-public-schools-v-trump US v. McIver [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70317726/united-states-v-mciver/ Trump v. Wilcox [Supreme Court order granting stay] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a966_1b8e.pdf Oklahoma Statewide School Board v. Drummond [Supreme Court per curiam order] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-394_9p6b.pdf Lively v. Baldoni (SDNY) [docket via CourtListener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69510553/lively-v-wayfarer-studios-llc/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc&page=2 We Can Bury Anyone’: Inside a Hollywood Smear Machine, New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/21/business/media/blake-lively-justin-baldoni-it-ends-with-us.html Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

May 20, 2025 • 1h 9min
Ep 134 — Everybody Hates Sam (and ChatGPT)
The Supreme Court does one good thing on immigration, which made Sam Alito BIG MAD. And although the administration has been stymied (for now) in its efforts to rendition detainees out of the country with no notice, the Supreme Court did allow the Trump administration to end Temporary Protected Status for hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans. Then, since we all need a good chuckle, we spend some time pointing and laughing at California’s plan to outsource the bar exam to an AI chatbot. And in the patreon bonus, we describe how one of America’s worst trial court judges just tried to overrule the Supreme Court. Links: Alito Gets Fragged in Supreme Court Order https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/alito-gets-fragged-in-scotus-order New York Times, “Emil Bove, Top Justice Dept. Official, Is Considered For Circuit Court Nomination” https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/19/us/politics/emil-bove-circuit-court-federal-appeals.html?unlocked_article_code=1.IU8.KLV8.yndwN6PJV_HE Noem v. National TPS Alliance et al. [SCOTUS Miscellaneous order] https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/051925zr1_5h26.pdf Washington Post, “Trump Justice Dept. considers removing key check on lawmaker prosecutions” https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/05/17/trump-justice-department-prosecutions/ State of Texas v. EEOC order (Kacsmaryk) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.393489/gov.uscourts.txnd.393489.59.0.pdf DOJ OCR Letter Harmeet Dhillon to Brandon Johnson https://www.justice.gov/crt/media/1400811/dl?inline Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

May 16, 2025 • 1h 1min
Ep 133 — The Supreme Court is LAWLESS (feat. Leah Litman)
Today, Liz and Andrew interview Prof. Leah Litman about her book Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes. And, as if to prove the point, the Supreme Court today entertained absolutely nonsense arguments in the birthright citizenship cases about how district courts can’t issue the kind of injunctions they’ve issued for the past two centuries because it would make Trump sad. Links: Leah Litman’s Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes https://www.amazon.com/Lawless-Supreme-Conservative-Grievance-Theories/dp/1668054620/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

May 13, 2025 • 1h 1min
Ep 132 — For My Friends, A Plane. For My Enemies, The Law.
Meta thinks that if you steal tens of millions of books, the value of each individual theft rounds down to zero. Is that the law? (No.) Also, the Qatari Royal family wants to give Donald Trump a half-billion-dollar plane and make the US government pay to renovate it. Turns out, that hasn’t been legal for more than two hundred years, but who’s counting? Oh, and the administration arrested the Mayor of Newark. Rumeysa Ozturk is free, though, so it’s not all bad news. Links: Ozturk v. Hyde https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69845539/ozturk-v-hyde/ W.M.M. v. Trump (Alien Enemies Act case in Northern District of Texas) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69898198/wmm-v-donald-j-trump US v. Baraka https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70242142/united-states-v-baraka/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

May 9, 2025 • 1h 3min
Ep 131 — Trial Judges Know What’s Up
While SCOTUS is MIA, trial judges across the country are stepping up. The full Circuit Court in DC leaps in to save Voice of America from the May hell panel hearing emergency appeals. A judge in Maryland orders the government to facilitate the return of a man wrongly deported to the Salvadoran gulag. No, not Kilmar Abrego Garcia — another one! In New York, a third trial judge rules that we are NOT under invasion by Venezuela. And in Alabama, trial judges ordered the state to fix its racist maps again. Links: DHS Courts Contempt In Its Zeal To Deport As Many Harmless Grannies As Possible https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/dhs-courts-contempt-in-its-zeal-to Widakuswara v. Lake [Circuit Court Docket] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69940505/patsy-widakuswara-v-kari-lake Dragon Law Docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69837453/jane-doe-no-2-v-clinton-county-of/ J.O.P. v. Department of Homeland Security [District Court Docket] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15867241/jop-v-us-department-of-homeland-security U.S. v. Watkins (SDNY 1946) https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2209995717379331353 G.F.F. v. Trump [SDNY Docket] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69857769/gff-v-trump/ Milligan v. Allen Docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61494291/milligan-v-allen/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

May 6, 2025 • 1h 2min
Ep 130 — The Justice Department Is Borked
On today’s episode, we break down how Radio Free Europe just might be the key to preserving the separation of powers in America. We talk the Tucker Act and all of the pretextual, vapid, and/or just plain wrong arguments coming out of Trump’s Department of Justice. Perkins Coie wins their case in front of Our Favorite Beryl, a dingus is trying to sue Chief Justice John Roberts, and Maine’s Governor Janet Mills promised the President she’d see him in court. Four days later, the administration caved, meaning Maine kids will get to eat their school lunches after all. Links: Trump Admin Unveils Exciting Plan To Magic Away Impoundment Lawsuits https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/trump-admin-unveils-exciting-plan RFE/RL v. Lake (USAGM) D.D.C. docket [via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69752936/rferl-inc-v-lake/ US Agency for Global Media DC Circuit docket [via Court Listener] https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cadc.42001/ America First Legal Foundation v. Chief Justice Roberts [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69924761/america-first-legal-foundation-v-roberts/ Perkins Coie LLP v. Dept. of Justice [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69725919/perkins-coie-llp-v-us-department-of-justice/ US v. Kirk [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69580642/united-states-v-kirk/ US v. Smirnov https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68254959/united-states-v-smirnov Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod