For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Through our entire Faith Shakers series, we’ve been finding the places where faith is vibrant and alive–both outside the church and inside it–and who has been creating safe spaces for faith to be expressed; no matter where you fall on the religious spectrum. For centuries, art has been an integral part of the religious tradition. Some of the most breathtaking art was commissioned by leaders of the church and still adorns the walls, architecture, windows and gardens in some of the most famous religious landmarks all over the world. However, over the last century, the tie to art and religion seems to be tenuous. And those creatives who seek to express their faith or their relationship to God through art don’t always have a conduit to do so in religious spaces. But, like the faith shakers they are, people who connect to God through art are still doing their thing wherever they can–and reconnecting others to God in the process. That’s the story of our guest today– an artist who is actively helping build that connective tissue between art, God and people–the spectacularly talented Morgan Harper Nichols. Morgan is a visual artist and poet who shares stories of grief, anger and solace who found her place of expression, surprisingly, on Instagram (where now nearly 2M followers are tuned in to her artistic offerings). Morgan’s experience in the Christian faith began with roots in a church that was planted by former American slaves and their descendants. It was committed to community and ensuring all voices were heard and was a guide for how she began sharing her work with the world. Morgan recognizes that the word “God” alone has so much baggage for a lot of people because it's been weaponized against them, and she wants to show those traumatized souls that you can actually feel eternal love and the presence of God, and it doesn’t have to be in a church, and it can look warm and welcoming and different than how it may have been presented in the past. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.  KiwiCo. | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using promo code FORTHELOVE. Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For February 2022, Jen and the club read Brit Bennett’s The Vanishing Half. Brit is a novelist and essayist that has been featured in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, and Jezebel. Her first novel, The Mothers, was a finalist for both the NBCC John Leonard First Novel Prize and the Robert W. Bingham Prize for Debut Fiction. And that brings us to this month’s book, The Vanishing Half. It was an instant New York Times bestseller and took the literary world by storm. It was named one of the top books of 2020, and no big deal, landed on the short list of Barack Obama’s favorite books. It is a story filled with self-growth, familial pain, generational divisions, and more. So join Jen this week as she chats all about The Vanishing Half and its impact with Brit Bennett. * * *   Thank you to our sponsors! ABLE | Get 15% off sitewide using code JEN at livefashionable.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with more of our Faith Shakers series–with another person of faith who’s inhabiting something different than what we normally expect or see in faith spaces. When it comes to better understanding the church and how faith exists outside its walls, we must take into consideration voices that haven’t been largely represented in many church traditions. Communities of color were often not considered in the long history of  liturgy in the church–and if you’re not familiar with what liturgy is, the technical definition is the “ritual or script for various forms of public worship in churches.” And those scripts weren’t scripts and rituals didn’t take into account the Black experience. That’s where our guest today comes in. Cole Arthur Riley is an author and the creator behind the uber popular Black Liturgies, which has blown up on Instagram over the last couple of years. Cole daily shares the poems and prayers she has created that invite Black dignity, lament, rage, justice, and rest. She and Jen talk about how hard it can be to go against the grain in spaces of faith, and the power of trading acceptance for inner stability.  As Cole says, “when you have that inner stability of heart, it gives you courage to step away and say ‘I trust that I am going to find belonging elsewhere.’” * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Chime | Sign up today at chime.com/forthelove.    Stamps.com | Sign up with promo code FORTHELOVE today at stamps.com for a 4-week trial.    Noom Mood | Sign up for your trial at noom.com/FTL today.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy unscheduled podcast goodness day to you all—we’ve got an amazing bonus episode dropping in just for you! This week we are delighted to welcome author Tara Westover to the show. Her book Educated is on the tip- top of our list for “must-read” books (and was on the New York Times Bestseller list for over 135 weeks in addition to being applauded and celebrated by the New Yorker, O, The Oprah Magazine, and the Obamas. Tara paints a riveting picture of how she grew up in a strict religious survivalist family in the mountains of Idaho, where she didn’t get a birth certificate until she was nine, had no medical records, and didn’t attend school. She tells us what it was like to live in that environment and what compelled her, at 17, to seek education as a means of escape. In 10 years time, Tara earned a PhD in intellectual history and political thought from Cambridge, despite no schooling up to that point. Tara shares how she’s dealing with the aftermath of her trauma and the impact her departure had on her family. As she celebrates the release of Educated in paperback this year, Tara and Jen have a lively discussion about faith, family and therapy––and the transformative power of education.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com! Me Course | Register now at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE for $10 off. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s an origin story we’ve heard time and time again; a young person trying to figure out who they are as they grow up—in the context of their families, their religious beliefs, and their sexuality. And when all of those areas conflate, there can be fallout and damage—especially when they discover how and who they choose to love isn’t embraced by their faith or family structures. Award winning journalist and writer Jonathan Merritt navigated this particular firestorm in his own life by pursuing a Masters in Divinity and Theology and becoming a journalist who asked hard hitting questions at the intersections of faith and culture. But it would take years for him to sort out who he himself was in the midst of it. Growing up in the family of an evangelical mega-pastor, Jonathan was taught that in regards to gay people, Christians were called to “love the sinner, but hate the sin.” Jonathan didn’t see a lot of love with this practice, just a lot of hate. And it kept him from being open to who he himself might be—a gay man. It took an event that shattered his life into pieces and caused his private process to become very public; which ultimately sent him down the road to really pursue his identity and recalibrate his relationship to his family, his faith, and his purpose. For the first time, he talks about this process, and shares a moment where he and Jen’s paths crossed in a significant way that would also blow up a few sacred cows in Jen’s life and introduced her to an early version of cancel culture, circa 2016. Welcome all, to this first, powerful episode in our Faith Shakers series. * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.  Catalina Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove for 15% off your first order plus free shipping. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we wrap up our Elephant in the Room series, there will be no awkward topics left in our wake. And this week, we’re putting the nail in that coffin (so to speak) and we’re talking about–yes, you guessed it– Death. It’s really hard to think about how to plan for your death when you’re too busy living, not to mention that we don’t even want to really contemplate our demise, but alas, none of us will escape it. And we’ve all heard the horror stories of people who leave this earth with no will or last testament, families put under duress because they don’t know how to manage it all, or the provider of the family passes suddenly, and in an instant, there is no income, no insurance and perhaps unexpected expenses for hospital stays and/or funerals. As stark as it seems, it doesn’t have to be. Planning well for the life that you’ve built so that legacy is created for those who are left behind is something we all can bravely face. And to help us through it is someone who has taken this hard topic and turned it on its face so that it’s actually approachable and less scary to contemplate–we’ve got Abby Schneiderman, the founder of Everplans–to hold our hands through the process. Abby has the answers to the questions we need to take care of In Case You Get Hit By A Bus (also the title of her book). Her company Everplans focuses on providing resources to people as they think about what needs to be done to put the right things into place once we pass on. Some of it is just practical stuff we might not be thinking about—like a list of passwords so getting into accounts doesn’t take an act of congress, developing a way to keep track of medical forms, legal files, and so much more.  * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Thistle Farms | Head to thistlefarms.org to get 15% off using code FORTHELOVE. BYJU | Sign up for your first class free today at byjus.com/podcast.Me Course | Register now at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE for $10 off. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For January 2022, Jen and the club read Christie Tate’s Group. Christie is a well-known writer and essayist that has written for amazing publications including The New York Times, The Washington Post, McSweeney’s, and more. Her first novel, Group, was published in 2020 and was named as one of Reese’s Book Club picks along with being a New York Times Bestseller. Group started many conversations about the power therapy offers and how finding your group allows healing and self-discovery. Join Jen and Christie this week as they talk about Christie’s writing process, the power of therapy, and why it’s so important to find the people that help you become whole again. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Me Course | Start learning today and get $10 off at mecourse.org using code FORTHELOVE.   JHBC | Join our reading community at jenhatmakerbookclub.com. ABLE | Head to livefashionable.com to get 20% off using code 20JEN. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get ready for some real and raw conversation with Jen and two of her most trusted friends about an experience they’ve all shared [which happens to be this week’s elephant in the room as well]. We’re talking about divorce. We’ve all heard the not-so-fun stat that at least half of all marriages in our country end up in divorce. No matter how it happens, who makes the choice, or however long the marriage lasted—it’s traumatizing. Like any elephant in the room, there’s a sense of failure, a sense of shame that keeps the pain and loneliness of a marriage that is on the rails shrouded in silence and solitude, and when the marriage finally crumbles––we’re not only grieving over own dreams and expectations dashed, but wondering how we’ll manage all our people’s disappointment and confusion over it all–including our children’s. And moving forward as a single person after being married has its own challenges as well. How do you tell people in the office your plus one has vacated the position? Who’s your emergency contact now? Do I keep the same last name? How do we even process it all–what we were taught about marriage to begin with, why we stayed when our boundaries were pushed to their limits, and who we can trust as we put our lives back together again? Jen shares more than she ever has before about her own divorce with her good friends Kristen Howerton and Jamie Wright who walked with her through every step of the process. They discuss the trajectory of their marriages, how they each grappled with choosing divorce, and what they are learning in “real time” in the aftermath. And here’s the good news–they all agree that as devastating as it can be, our friends can help us remember who we are in all of it; new dreams can be made, old dreams can change and hope and healing is possible.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | New customers get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove. Kiwi Co | Get 50% off your first month plus free shipping at kiwico.com using promo code FORTHELOVE.Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the tail-end of this series, we really acknowledge some of the bigger elephants in the room we all face each and every day. And this week’s elephant is a big one that likely we’ve all experienced first hand or with those we love. Mental health disorders have been around for as long as we’ve been walking the planet, but bringing them out of the dark has been a fairly recent phenomenon. Even as recently as 3 or 4 decades ago, depression and anxiety were rarely diagnosed as clinical disorders, and in previous generations, people with more profound issues that are now treatable were hidden away from society by their families or locked up in institutions. And while there have been huge strides made in the past or so regarding treatment of now commonly diagnosed mental health issues such as anxiety and depression, there is still reticence to recognize its impact and shame taken on by those who deal with it. The time has come to bring these issues out of the dark as we see the growing impact of unchecked mental illness and where it leads for those who don’t know where or how to get help. One of the people that’s leading the charge toward legitimizing mental health conditions in a bigger way is the founder of To Write Love On Her Arms, Jamie Tworkowski. Jamie founded TWLOHA after guiding a friend through her struggles with depression and suicidal thoughts. He saw the need for guidance in this space and created a world-renowned organization that offers resources and help to those who need it most. Jen and Jamie talk about the painful process of loving our people when they are hurting, how to give our own selves grace when we struggle, and why mental health needs to be treated as seriously as physical health.  Content Warning: This episode addresses hard topics including anxiety, depression and suicidal ideation, so it may not be suitable for young listeners or individuals on the path to healing. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!  Chime | Get started today at chime.com/forthelove. ThirdLove | Get 20% off your first order at thirdlove.com/forthelove.Stamps.com | Use code FORTHELOVE to start your 4 week trial today at stamps.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever heard anyone say they are looking forward to menopause? A rare occurrence, to be sure, as our culture seems obsessed with keeping women “young” on all levels. 50 is the new 30, right? And while women inevitably age, the maturation of women has not classically been held in high esteem in our culture. So no wonder we view the onset of menopause with fear and trepidation; a stark reminder that we’re not what we once were. And as most elephants in the room, this natural transition into what should be a wise, peaceful and well-earned season of our lives is met with disdain; something to be hidden and ignored, or “fixed” with surgery, hormones, and a host of anti-aging products. For those of us who haven’t gotten there yet, we’re treated to the negative aspects played up historically by a patriarchal perspective giving us dread of hot flashes, mood swings, body changes, gray hair and overall loss of youth and vitality. Though this transition is unavoidable for all women, we’re here to look at what it all really means–to those who are currently going through it and to those who inevitably will. We hope you’ll be encouraged to find that there is much to lean into that gives us hope for a productive and meaningful second half of life. We’ve got a wonderfully educated and compassionate leader in this space–she’s not only been through it, but her work focuses on de-stigmatizing the whole topic for women and taking to task the historical negativity around a woman’s aging process. Cheryl Bridges Johns is an author, she's an academic lecturer, she's a leader. She advocates for women's full empowerment, care for all God's creation, and the renewal of the church to boot. She’s written a compelling book about navigating the second half of life as a woman–it’s called Seven Transforming Gifts of Menopause, which gets to the heart of this change by helping women find their voice and speak openly about their journey. Cheryl wants women to see their menopausal journey as a time in which we can become more and more of ourselves. She believes if society can embrace this natural occurrence, women can flourish in the second half of their lives, which can only lead to the flourishing of society as a whole.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. MeCourse | Register now at mecourse.org and use the code FORTHELOVE to save $10.Keto Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove to get 15% off your first order plus free shipping. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices