For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

As we continue on in our Favorite Pastime series, we’re reveling in all the opportunities that are hiding in plain sight–through the beloved activities, we cherish in our spare time. No spare time, you say? We understand—and that’s where our series has a delightful twist–these folks took their passions and hobbies and turned them from hobbies into full-fledged careers. So you think those toaster cozies you like to knit can’t be a full time gig? Think again–we’ve got creators, makers and dreamers of all ilks–and this week’s guest is one for the books! She is an artist, a poet, a driftwood collecting connoisseur–yes you heard us right–and she is creating the most unique, beautiful and accessible art that you would ever hope to see. Jaime Kurowski has always felt the call to pursue art, as it’s ingrained in her family tree. So when she took a sabbatical from teaching to pursue her driftwood creations, it wasn’t a big surprise for anyone. But like many creatives, her work comes from a place of darkness. One devastating event led to another and Jaime found herself seeking healing from her profound emotional and physical brokenness. Part of her healing was finding a new way to unwind, express herself, and put light into the world. She came through that rough season and now has a company of her own that is thriving, and also heads up a collective of female business owners and artists who have gone through similar journeys, who all focus on finding the audacity to believe in themselves and their talents.  * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Stamps.com | Sign up for your 4-week trial today at stamps.com using code FORTHELOVE.  MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. Catalina Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove for 15% off your first order plus free shipping. Thought-Provoking Quotes “This is my first year where I'm a full-time creative, and I'm reinventing the things that I loved about teaching, my passion for creative writing, and my passion for the words that we have on repeat in our head, women, adults, and children. And then using the driftwood to give it art.” – Jaime Kurowski  “She was free. And when she returned to the trees, she dressed herself in lovely, placed flowers in her hair. Let sensuality slip off her shoulder, slipped strength upon her feet, looked down at this solid ground and finally stepped into herself.” – an excerpt from a poem by Jaime Kurowski “If you ask a fourth grade class what they have on repeat, they're like, ‘I'm stupid,’ or ‘I'm ugly.’ And the confidence camp that I did for them to have a place to not be alone in that, is everything to me.” – Jaime Kurowski  Jaime’s LinksWebsiteInstagram FacebookBooks & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Make(Her) CollectiveThe Make(Her) Collective Website  For the Love of the Elephant in the Room: Grief on Your Terms with Sal & Im Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another episode in our For the Love of Favorite Pastimes series, and this week, we’re talking about the great outdoors. And in case you think this topic is just for those of you who find their greatest joy loading up piles of gear to go hiking for 20 miles every weekend, or for all the rabid runners, cyclists, swimmers, campers, and the rest of you that make the other half of us real, real tired––there’s something for all of us who may like being outside, even those who aren’t necessarily the outdoorsy type. Maybe your jam is barbecuing outside with friends, or sitting on your porch swing à la Jen Hatmaker. At the end of the day ,we can all agree (and science proves) that spending time in nature makes a person happier. And that’s the message this week’s guest is taking to the masses. Ben Steele is the Chief Customer Officer at REI - the nation’s largest consumer co-op for the outdoor community. Ben didn’t grow up with an innate love for nature, even though it was a part of his family’s life in Idaho. It wasn’t until he found his own outdoor personality as an adult that he truly appreciated the benefits of spending time outside (and surprise– it doesn’t have to involve driving miles away from home or having oodles of gear).  * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.  KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using code FORTHELOVE.  Betterhelp | Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month. Thought-Provoking Quotes“There is science that says when folks have access to green spaces, have access to clean air, have access to time outside, you're healthier as an individual and at a societal level.” – Ben Steele “The only part of your day you truly control is what time you get up. So I get up early to get my time outdoors every day on the weekdays. And there's definitely days I'd rather stay in bed, but if I put it off for the end of the day, there's always something that comes up.” – Ben Steele “The outside is not an equally safe space for everybody. It's certainly true for women. It's certainly true for people of color. It's certainly true for even different identity groups. And so we've got to be honest about everything from racist naming of outdoor places, to a legacy of stolen land, to the reality that, depending on who I am, I may not feel that comfortable outside or around other people.” – Ben Steele “Relatively early in COVID [REI] had built a beautiful new headquarters and we sold it. We made thedecision that we'd rather have these dollars working for our employees, working for our customers, working for our business. So we've been in a virtual environment with a couple of satellite offices for the last few years. And that was a big change for our headquarters. We're trying to recognize, ‘wow, my days at home are really efficient and really effective and productive. My days in the office are really connected.’ Both of those things matter.” - Ben Steele on achieving work life balance.  “I think for somebody who says I'm not an outdoors person, I'm not outdoorsy. I think what I'd ask is what they like to do outside? And it might be a barbecue in the backyard with their family. They love to sit on the front porch and watch the world go by. They love to watch a sunset or they love birds. Whatever you like, find a way to pursue that.” – Ben SteeleBooks & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeREI Co-Op REI Gear Trade-InConnect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For April 2022, Jen and the club read Sarah Penner’s The Lost Apothecary. Sarah began writing seriously back in 2015 after attending a lecture by one of our favorite authors–Elizabeth Gilbert. Soon after that moment, Sarah enrolled in her first creative writing class, and y’all, how lucky are we that she did. Her book, The Lost Apothecary, was an instant success. It debuted at #7 on the New York Times bestseller list, and has been translated into over 40 languages. Based on a real-life mudlarking discovery (and yes, she explains what that is), Sarah takes us back in time to see how one woman created space for women everywhere to do what they needed to do. So, we are more than thrilled to bring this conversation to you all with the wonderful and talented Sarah Penner.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Stamps.com | Start your trial today using promo code FORTHELOVE at stamps.com. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I don't think Nella is a hero or a villain. I think she's somewhere in the middle. And that's how all of us are really, none of us are heroes. None of us are villains. We're all somewhere in the middle.”– Sarah Penner  “Sometimes we can meet someone and just form an instant friendship, sisterhood, connection, whatever you want to call it. And those can be the people that are most impactful in our lives. We don't need to only rely on these friends that we've had our whole lives. Sometimes the people that we need the most are just right there in the near vicinity.”– Sarah Penner  "Betrayal is part of the human experience. And one of the most enjoyable things about writing this book was I was able to compare and contrast how things were different with 200 years between them. And one of the main things that was the same is how we are all hurt by people that we love. And 200 years from now, nothing will have changed."– Sarah Penner Sarah’s LinksWebsiteInstagramTwitter  Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeI Capture the Castle - Dodie Smith Bloomsbury Girls - Natalie JennerConnect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What’s your favorite pastime (go with us here, we know that lots of us don’t even know the concept of having time for a pastime). Imagine being able to really spend time in your garden, instead of just hoping it will rain or the rabbits don’t eat your bounty. Think about being able to carve out some time to write–really giving some thought and intention to your journal or that spark of a story you’ve been thinking about for awhile. Taking time for what matters to us, aside from doing the things we need to (and yes, that matters to) is like nurturing our soul–it helps us become fuller versions of ourselves, and in the end, those respites make us better at our “real” jobs/routine/duties. That’s why this series is coming in hot–to help us make that step in allowing that outside passion to become a part of our weekly schedule. For the Love of Favorite Pastimes delves into how to identify the things that spark joy and passion in our days, and give ourselves space for them–no matter how small that space may be. And to kick this whole series off, we are thrilled to welcome friends of the show and Jen, Amie and Jolie of the Junk Gypsies. Now, we know you all know who these ladies are and we can’t believe it’s taken so long to get them on the show. But, now that we have them, we will be talking to them about their side passion (and how that turned into a full time business), how they pursued it with nothing more than a pick-up truck and a dream, and how their love for other people’s junk turned into a treasured way of life.  * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Get started today at chime.com/forthelove.  Pair | Get glasses as unique as you are, starting at just $60 at paireyewear.com/forthelove to get 15% off your pfirst urchase. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join our sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com Thought-Provoking Quotes "Between college and retirement, there's a mindset that if you don't really like it, you'll just work until retirement anyway. And we were like 'No, we don't want that,' and money was never the most important thing. It was always about quality of life." - Amie Sikes  “We don't have a plan of what's going to happen next year. But we stay open-minded and we don't stay too rigid as we try to bend and flow and be open to opportunities. But we've said no to some that we probably should have said yes to, and yes to some we probably should have said no to.” - Jolie Sikes  “We started doing dressers and side tables and eventually working our own aesthetic into it. So all of a sudden, it's becoming not just a booth where you buy furniture, but your customers are buying into our lifestyle.” - Amie Sikes  “The way we dress, the way we decorate, it's a reflection of you so why would it be boring? You're not boring. So if your home is a reflection of you and your adventures and personality, why would you want everything the same color?” - Jolie Sikes Junk Gypsies LinksWebsiteFacebook  Instagram Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re wrapping up our Faith Shakers series this week, and we hope you’ve found it as eye-opening and enlightening as we have to see what people of faith in non-traditional spaces have been doing to make the world a better, more thoughtful place. This episode takes us to yet another unique space where faith and art are being combined to great effect--and it’s through poetry. In case you’re having flashbacks to Shakespearean sonnets you had to study in high school, fear not. We’re going beyond poetry to recognize the beauty in the lyrics we love from our favorite songs, to the way thoughts are constructed by deep thinkers like modern poet Maya Angelou. Language, words, and poetry have always been a tool deeply embedded inside any sort of faith search. So this week, we welcome a poet who also happens to be a theologian, and he's going to walk us through the powerful ways that poetry can bring healing, hope, and reconciliation, Pádraig Ó Tuama is a poet and theologian whose work centers around language, power, conflict, politics, and religion. For several years, he was the leader of Corrymeela Community—Ireland's oldest organization focused on religious reconciliation. He’s also the in-house theologian for the NPR show On Being, with Krista Tippet. Pádraig focuses on conflict resolution who dedicates his life to creating safe spaces for all people within the religious realm. He shows us all that communication, understanding, and landing in the gray space is the way forward and that we can all find our faith space, no matter who we are or where we come from. * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove OSEA | Get 10% off your first order using promo code FORTHELOVE at oseamalibu.com  Thistle Farms | Get 15% off at thistlefarms.org using promo code FORTHELOVEThought-Provoking Quotes "Conflict can be the place for brilliant friendships to thrive, and experience electricity for themselves. So sometimes you want to amplify conflict because it's really fruitful, energetic, and creative. But when it gets violent, or destructive, or fruitless, then it needs to be resolved."– Padraig O Tuama  “I have no interest in whether somebody does or doesn't believe in God. I have no interest in whether we agree. That doesn't interest me at all. I hope we don't, I don't agree with myself, so I don't really agree with anybody else.”– Padraig O Tuama  "I have a deep interest in wondering, 'do the words we use help us make some kind of sense of the world?' And when there's no sense to be made, do the words we use help give our grief voice?"– Padraig O Tuama  “So much of the work of peace can be undone by the peace field being partitioned, and segregated, and fighting amongst itself.”– Padraig O Tuama  “I'm uninterested in neutrality. I am interested in fairness and trustability.”– Padraig O Tuama "If you were to gather all the authors of the bible, and put them in a field, I think they would hate each other at times. They would not agree with each other on this word of God, or the question of God. And as a result, I thought, ‘Oh my God, there's room for me.’"– Padraig O Tuama Padraig’s LinksWebsiteFacebookInstagram Twitter Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the past, questioning the spiritual majority was unacceptable. Not only were people of faith expected to fall into line and just accept what was laid out by church leaders, but they were also expected to carry those beliefs throughout their entire lives–even when those tenets no longer aligned with their own values. And if they dropped them? Well, then they likely got dropped by their faith institutions. Fortunately for us all, there have been some quiet trail blazers who have been pushing at the edges of those institutions, asking hard questions, and paving the way for so many of us to shift and develop and grow our faith into living, breathing entities that enhance life–instead of being burdensome. One of those trailblazers joins us this week—the creator and host of the On Being radio show (and podcast) on NPR–Krista Tippet. Krista, like so many of us, grew up entrenched in the church–going three times a week, including Wednesday night suppers (we never turn down a potluck here) and it was her family’s main social life and community. Since beginning her career as a journalist Krista began to see that whenever religion was discussed in public, in the news or on public radio, it had the effect of shutting people's imaginations down. She wanted to show people that you could talk about it, and we could speak about the part of ourselves that we’re referring to when we use the words “religious or spiritual” in a way that allowed for questions and differing opinions. Now, 20 years and hundreds of fascinating interviews later, she has changed the way we talk about faith publicly and allowed space for it to be full of inquisitiveness and beautiful mystery–enabling so many to find a faith that feels like home to them. You’ll want to be sure to listen all the way to the end where Krista reveals the surprising reason she started her show, On Being, and the touching situation that is saving her life right now.  Thank you to our sponsors!Thought-Provoking Quotes:“How we do school, how we do medicine, how we do law, how we do politics, how we do church, how we've done religion. They don't make sense for who we are becoming and what we're learning, and how we live, and the way our technologies have upended things.” – Krista Tippett "I have developed this absolute delight in mystery, and I also believe mystery is orthodoxy right? We are told there are things we will not understand in this lifetime. And standing before that with reverence and humility is part of being devout. For me, this all works together now and it feels like an adventure." – Krista Tippett  “We live in this time when faith is evolving, and our traditions are evolving, and our experience of [faith] is evolving. We are evolving.” – Krista Tippett “Depression, it's so hard to describe, although so many people have been through it now. It's not just not having a sense of hope or joy, or what those might look like in the future. It's not being able to imagine how that ever felt or that it could possibly ever happen again. The bottom fell out of my understanding–all these things I had told myself about my family and the love that I knew growing up, I had to get honest about who I was and how I'd survived and how hard my survival techniques had been on me.” – Krista TippettKrista’s Links:Website TwitterBooks & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeWalter Brueggeman - Author, Speaker & Professor The Prophetic Imagination - On Being with Walter Bruggeman  Thích Nhât Hanh - Vietnamese Buddhist & Activist  Desmond Tutu - Bishop & Theologian  Mary Oliver - Poet  I Got Saved By the Beauty of the World - On Being with Mary Oliver  Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A dilemma that has gripped the hearts of traditional church leaders and their followers is the trend toward “non-affiliation–” those folks referred to as the “Nones” - who check “none” when asked if they affiliate with any religion or attend any church. Which begs the question–why? Why aren’t people attending church like they used to? And why are people outright leaving the church?  Are people still seeking and finding spiritual community somewhere out there?  Writer, speaker and co-founder of the Sacred Design Lab, Casper ter Kuile–a graduate of Harvard Divinity School who once identified as an atheist–has done some fascinating research on why people–millennials in particular–are leaving religious institutions in droves; what it is they are searching for, and the surpising places they are finding connection and hope. Caspar published a study titled How We Gather, which discusses this millennial exodus from the church, and how they are transitioning into a more spiritual journey instead of a religious one. For those of us who may have been embedded in traditional church culture for years and now find ourselves at a crossroads because of the politicization of religion, or perhaps because of untenable behavior that occurred behind closed doors at churches for years wondering if we can see ourselves in spiritual community ever again, This conversation with Jen and Caspar reveals the darker reasons for the detachment many have from religion and church, but also insight into a transformation on how we might practice a new “religion” that draws from the best of tradition and the new and inspiring ways people are congregating.    * * *   Thank you to our sponsors!   Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.   KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line using code FORTHELOVE at kiwico.com   Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. ABLE | Sign up with promo code FORTHELOVE for a special offer that includes a 4-week trial, free postage, and a digital scale at stamps.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another installment of our Faith Shakers series–talking to people who are doing work in the name of faith in “not so typical places,” using nontraditional ways to bring life and light to people's lives. One of the not so typical places people of faith are congregating more than ever is on social media. So many of us have a love/hate relationship with the medium. Sometimes it gives us the feeling of connection and community–especially during times where connection in person isn’t possible (remember the pandemic lockdown, everyone?). Other times, it can be a source of stress, a place where we’re constantly comparing ourselves to others, an alternate reality of only our “best selves” shown to the world through carefully curated content. Religion, faith and spirituality have their place on social media, and with emerging generations–millennials, Gen X’ers–many have never known life without it. But how do we navigate that quality of instant gratification that social media so readily supplies and find true connection and community that will challenge us, instruct us, and maybe even pastor us in the digital space? This week’s guest has done a lot of work looking at and studying digital communication spaces, and she is here to pass on what she has found so that we can better know the power of digital communication and make social connections that are positive, productive and beneficial. Heather Thompson Day is the host of Viral Jesus, a podcast that discusses these very things. She’s also an associate professor of communication at Andrews University and she’s intent on serving students and women in navigating the digital space toward the best possible end–good self image, finding conviction and even handling disagreements. This isn’t your grandma’s Sunday school class y’all–Heather gives us the tools to find a whole different way of experiencing our faith through our social channels.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Sign up today at chime.com/forthelove to start your trial today.  Noom Mood | Sign up for your trial at noom.com/ftl.  Tiff’s Treats Book | Get a $25 credit for Tiff's Treats with the purchase of their new book, It's Not Just Cookies, at cookiedelivery.com/jen. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re not always comfortable with people who push us past our comfort zones, who ask hard questions, who bring us a different perspective, a different angle–but we get so much from there. As we continue our Faith Shakers series, we’re talking to people who challenge unjust systems and are doing dynamic things in faith spaces and how those things are positively impacting the world. This week’s discussion takes place at a location that many would consider to be a hotbed of divisiveness–where many believe it hard to show love; the center of our political world–Washington D.C. This particular location is important because it's representative of our public discourse, the direction of our country's legislation, policy, and rhetoric. As we explore this highly emotional and volatile topic, we have a guest who has been standing on the frontlines and helps us take it apart compassionately. Lisa Schutlz is the chief of staff for the United States Senate chaplain, Barry Black. For 15 years, she’s been directing all of Chaplain Black's programs and outreach to all senators, their families, and any Senate staff. Jen and Lisa really get into what faith looks like in Washington DC right now. There's some hope baked into this conversation, and Lisa’s very unique perspective on faith in our highly charged political world gives us insight on how we can “brave the wilderness” in this political divisiveness to build bridges that might bring us together in love.  * * *Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. OSEA | Head to oseamalibu.com and get 10% off your first order using promo code FORTHELOVE. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.comtoday to join our sisterhood in nerdiness. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with a fourth episode in this powerful series; For the Love of Faith Shakers. As many of uswho might have come from a Western evangelical Christian community, we were presented a God thathas a strong patriarchal presence. As we dig into the history of that, we learn that this image has beencrafted, held together and governed by men, as those in power tend to shape the deities as they want to see them. However, history–the same written and oral history that gives us the basis for the Bible–tells us that Jesus likely wasn’t caucasian with blue eyes as we often see him depicted, but that he was Jewish, born and raised in the middle east and more than likely, was a person of color. But theimage of white Jesus took root, as well as God as a white man, his father, also a man, emerging from The clouds in a fury–ruling with an iron fist. This generally serves one group of people in one gender, but has been so painful and difficult for black and brown and female and LGBTQ+ communities to seethemselves in their creator; and to feel safe with this God, to feel cherished, to feel protected, to feelincluded. And so to give us some insight toward moving beyond this narrow, potentially abusive andoppressive view of God, we're talking with Dr. Christena Cleveland. Dr. Cleveland is a social psychologist, an author and activist who grew up in white evangelical spaces and was a popular speaker and influencer in that world for many years. As a researcher and former professor of Divinity at Duke University, she's done some amazing study around the patriarchal forces in Christianity and other religions, which led to some dismantling of this practice of silencing the feminine side of God'sintimate presence in our life. It wasn’t until she looked at her own history of being “othered” by thewhite leaders in her religious background that she began to understand the tension she felt about herrelationship to God as a black woman. This led to a journey of figuring out who God was to her and how we all–no matter our gender or our color–can find ourselves in the Divine. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Cavatica | Head to cavatica.co and fill out the "Let's Talk" form using code FORTHELOVE to get $100 off your site ABLE | Head to livefashionable.com and save 15% sitewide using code JEN.MeCourse | Register now at mecourse.org and use the code FORTHELOVE to save $10. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices