For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

We’re back with our series For The Love of Being Seen and Heard. There is so much right now floating around in culture about what happens to us when we don’t feel like we’re either being seen or heard. For most of us, the longing to be understood by others is a core need. And for some groups or communities, including the disabled community, the task of being seen, heard and understood is more challenging, and we’ll hear why as we talk with disabled scholar-practitioner Dr. Amy Kenny. Dr. Kenny has made it her life’s work to shed light on and help clear up misunderstandings around the abled community’s view of the disabled. Her latest book, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request does a deep dive into one of those communities—places of faith—and the particular biases and unintentional ableism propagated there. Amy compassionately offers insight and solutions toward understanding in a new way. Jen and Dr. Kenny discuss:  Common misunderstandings that abled people have toward disabled people plus words and actions they can learn from disabled people toward connectedness The “invisible qualities of God’s divine nature” and how we might be able to accept imperfections in nature, even considering them beautiful, but are unable to accept or find beauty in the imperfections of our bodies  “Inspiration porn” a phrase that relates to the overall view of disabled folks being the poster children for overcoming—putting them in the position of feeling as if they are objects on a pedestal and that their sole purpose in life is to inspire the abled  The challenges around access for disabled people and how to think differently about the right of access for all people  There’s hope in this conversation, and Amy guides us to a place where we can unlearn some ableist tendencies and learn more about a community that has much to contribute to our world. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using ChimeBetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I'm not ashamed of my disability. It's an intrinsic part of the way that I navigate the world and the way that I am treated by the world and by various communities.” - Dr. Amy Kenny"I grew up in a household and in a church community that taught me that everyone was made in the image of God. And I had the audacity to believe it. Unfortunately, I wasn't treated as though I was made in the image of God a lot of times because I received potions and prayers and all kinds of shaming tactics to try to pray me away, essentially." - Dr. Amy Kenny"It's a beautiful interdependence that disabled folks bring and that we all can co-flourish when we have interdependence with one another." - Dr. Amy Kenny"We create this hierarchy of worth in humanity where we have societally constructed ideas of what's normal, who's intelligent, what's productive enough--who's contributing enough. All of those ideas uphold, ableism, racism, transphobia, colonialism, they're all interconnected." - Dr. Amy Kenny "My body is made of the same stuff as stars. Just watch me shine." - Dr. Amy Kenny“I have learned from the disability community that I have permission to show up as myself.” - Dr. Amy KennyResources Mentioned in This Episode: My Body is Not a Prayer Request by Dr. Amy Kenny Georgetown University’s Disability Culture InitiativeStella Young’s Memorial WebsiteMaysoon Zayid’s websiteZoomGuest’s Links:Dr. Amy Kenny’s website Connect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re at the tail end of our For the Love of Calming the Chaos series–and if you’ve gotten a chance to hear the whole series, we hope you’ve been able to take away some actionable items toward further peace in your life. Our last episode in the series is the perfect capper toward extending that ability to calm the chaos during the disruptive times of our lives, but also during the heartbreakingly difficult times. Our guest this week brings us the very comforting message that simply bucking up or trying to cheerlead ourselves into positivity isn't going to cut it. She gives us permission to actively accept our sadness, and then some tools for how to process it and move it from chaos to a place of peace. Katherine May is an international best-selling author, including the books Enchantment Awakening Wonder in An Anxious Age and Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times. Katherine is going to walk us through not only her own story of a hard winter season she endured, and what she learned, but she’ll show us how we can be gentle with ourselves and believe that we deserve peace, no matter the circumstances.  Jen and Katherine talk about: When those winter seasons come, just when you think you can’t or will never be happy again and the dark pit feels too overwhelming; that’s typically when the winter begins to cease and recovery begins Giving yourself grace to believe you haven’t done anything wrong if you’re still suffering a week, a month or even six months later - the process of unlearning your old ways of life and relearning new ones can be painful and lengthy Not all the lessons we learn come from happiness, they come from sorrow, and how to accept that   Chaos doesn’t just emanate from choices that we've made or that we've onboarded too many things, but sometimes when tragedy or heartache has found its way to our doorstep. Allowing ourselves to rest and retreat at these times is a gift we can all give ourselves. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/fortheloveMake Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes:“One of the defining parts of [a season of winter] is that feeling of being trapped in a space with a window onto the outside world. And it seems like everybody else is carrying on and they're all fine. And you are uniquely not fine.” - Katherine May “There's something about how raw you are in that time [of suffering]. So there are moments of intense beauty that are an integral part of this, part of the suffering.”- Katherine May “People who've gone through major winters always seem to look back and say, ‘do you know what? I wouldn't have not gone through it if it meant that I couldn't be who I am now.’ You almost appreciate them because change is always necessary.” - Katherine May “You are not alone. You feel very alone, but you are actually part of a massive community of other people who are going through the same thing as you, but maybe for different reasons. And there's this incredible bond between all of you that might not be obvious, but you can trust this space and you can trust your sadness.” - Katherine MayResources Mentioned in This Episode: Enchantment: Awakening Wonder in an Anxious Age - book by Katherine May Wintering, the Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times - book by Katherine May Guest’s Links:Katherine’s WebsiteKatherine’s InstagramKatherine’s PinterestConnect with Jen!: Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all parents of adolescents, or those of you who are about to have adolescents in your midst–if you’ve been feeling like you’re not sure what is normal in the emotional landscape of teenagers, we’re here to help. Face it—teenagers are literally in the epicenter of chaos–and because they live in our homes, sometimes it bleeds into our lives too. These kids are in developmental flux and there’s so much on them with school work, keeping up grades, extracurricular activities, friends (not to mention friend drama), anxiety about college—it’s a lot. But we can find ways to stand by them in their emotions, without getting too overcome with our own–and help them manage all this chaos in a way that serves them, and serves the whole family. Our guest this week is the perfect breath of calm in the midst of teen emotional chaos–she’s lived it, she studies it and she practices in it. Dr. Lisa Damour is a New York Times bestselling author who has written a book on the subject called The Emotional Lives of Teenagers, in addition to being an expert on adolescent development and family mental health. She and Jen hit the high points of:  The seven developmental tasks that teenagers face Why the emotional world of teenagers is very different than during any other time in their life, and how they navigate emotions and how they express them   How to know when a teenager is having a mental health crisis or if it’s just a teenager being a teenager How to manage a meltdown in nine steps Dr. Lisa gives us actionable tools to help understand teenagers and gently guide them as they wade through the somewhat chaotic season of adolescence. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/fortheloveMake Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.orgThought-Provoking Quotes:“There is so much change in an incredibly short period of time. There are so many demands on that teenager in terms of how they're gonna grow, what is gonna be different between when they were 11 to 18. I mean, those are not the same people” - Dr. Lisa Damour“Teenagers make choices that can have a very dramatic impact on what's available to them in young adulthood, in terms of their options” - Dr. Lisa Damour"I think so often when we think we're listening, we're not listening. We're waiting for [our teenager] to pause so that we can make a suggestion. That's not listening." - Dr. Lisa Damour"Once your kid is into adolescence and is more autonomous and wanting more independence, and they come in close and ask for support--savor it and set your watch by the fact that it is gonna end probably within the next 30 seconds and it's not gonna end in a nice way." - Dr. Lisa DamourResources Mentioned in This EpisodeUntangled by Dr. Lisa DamourUnder Pressure by Dr. Lisa DamourThe Emotional Lives of Teenagers by Dr. Lisa DamourThe Ask Lisa PodcastThe Little MermaidDr. Damour’s BookmarksGuest’s LinksDr. Damour’s websiteDr. Damour’s Instagram Dr. Damour’s YouTube ChannelDr. Damour’s TwitterDr. Damour’s Facebook Connect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our ongoing quest to squash the chaos in our lives, we’re talking to two experts (who are in fact sisters) who literally help us create space for our souls and our homes to breathe. Emily P. Freeman hosts the Do the Next Right Thing podcast where listeners flock to hear her soothing voice guide them with small ways to achieve mental clarity and avoid analysis paralysis when making decisions. Her sister, Myquillyn Smith, better known as The Nester, has the superpower of helping us create peace in the physical places we live with smart solutions that tweak our spaces to bring us calm–because when our homes feel out of control, our inner chaos rises as well. Highlights from this discussion with Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn include: How Emily and Myquillyn played with their Barbies as young girls was indicative of the roads they chose later in life  How sometimes the things that we are influenced to purchase to help us conquer chaos can become triggers for chaos (ie: THE BASKET PEOPLE)  How to not get bogged down with the pressure to plan your whole life, and how looking at past decisions can inform the decisions you make in the future  What it means to “quiet a room” in order to bring calm to your living spaces  Join Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn as we all seek a little refreshment for our lives and homes. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.orgJen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruiseThought-Provoking Quotes"We would play Barbies—like I'm talking multiple levels of Barbie life. But the thing is, the way we moved through our Barbie life as kids echoes into adulthood. It is the way that we live our lives as grownups." - Emily P. Freeman"Decision making and discernment is not something we can quit, ignore, graduate, retire from, or often delegate. It is always with us. Unfortunately, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not. And let's not forget it is a great privilege to be able to make a choice at all." - Emily P. Freeman"There are tons of studies about clutter and chaos and what it does to our literal heartbeat, the stress that we feel." - Myquillyn Smith"Our best teachers for decisions we are going to make in the future are the decisions we've already made in the past." Emily P. Freeman"The work of discernment is so much less about what should I do or not do? It's about can I trust myself?" - Emily P. Freeman“If you think of every single singular item in your space, having a voice over the months, over the years, maybe decades—it gets louder and louder.” - Myquillyn Smith“We think creating a beautiful home is about what we add in, but often it's about what we remove.” - Myquillyn Smith“If you cannot put your decision into a sentence, then it is not time to make the decision yet.” - Emily P. FreemanResources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Next Right Thing PodcastThe Next Right Thing Book by Emily FreemanThe Next Right Thing Guided Journal by Emily FreemanEmily P. Freeman's For the Love Podcast EpisodeThe Cozy Minimalist 17 Questions that Changed My Life by TIm FerrisIris MurdochJamie B. Golden Westmore Beauty 60sec Eye EffectGuest’s Links:Myquillyn's Link'sMyquillyn’s WebsiteMyquillyn’s InstagramMyquillyn’s Facebook Emily's Link'sEmily’s Website Emily’s InstagramEmily’s FacebookEmily’s TwitterThe Next Right Thing Podcast Connect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time for a good spring read–and what could be better than taking a literary trip to Paris in the spring? We are so excited to introduce you to Kerri Maher, the brilliant author of our latest book club pick, 'The Paris Bookseller.' Kerri is a rising star in the literary world, known for her captivating historical fiction that transports readers to different times and places. Kerri is the author of several critically acclaimed novels, including 'The Kennedy Debutante' and 'The Girl in White Gloves,' which have been praised for their historical detail and complex characters. In ‘The Paris Bookseller’, Kerri takes us to post-WWI Paris, where Maher brings to life Sylvia Beach, the founder of the bookstore Shakespeare and Company. 'The Paris Bookseller' is a tribute to the power of literature and the strength of women. Come be a part of the conversation here with us, and if you aren’t already a member of the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up!  Thought-Provoking Quotes:“It's amazing how much I learned about writing fiction from writing the truth.” - Kerri Maher“I spent a lot of time in the research stage of that novel feeling inadequate. Who am I to write about these people? I'm just some housewife with five unpublished novels in my attic. And two writer friends from very different parts of my writing life responded to that comment in almost exactly the same way. They were like, ‘but Kerri, this is your novel, isn't it? I was and that was very liberating to me.” - Kerri Maher“I've really had to embrace representing real people and real time periods. Yes,I want to absolutely do right by them. I want to kind of represent the truth of their essence.. But I also have to cop to the fact and respect the fact that these are my versions of these people.” - Kerri Maher Kerri’s LinksKerri’s websiteKerri’s InstagramKerri’s FacebookKerri’s Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Kennedy Debutante book by Kerri MaherThe Girl in White Gloves book by Kerri MaherAll You Have to Do Is Call book by Kerri Maher The Paris Wife book by Paula McClain A Moveable Feast book by Ernest HemingwayUlysses book by James Joyce  Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow book by Gabrielle Zevin The House of Eve book by Sadeqa Johnson The Midnight Library by Matt Haig Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sometimes, bad things happen (obvi, right?). Many times, we know what’s happening to us in the moment is awful and wrong. We know that it’s painful. But sometimes, we don’t know how bad those things were until that pain shows up again in our lives, maybe years later, in a completely different way. And when these seemingly bad things come up, our lives are thrown into a tailspin—creating chaos and unhappiness and we’re not even even sure why. So how do we begin to identify the source of the darkness? How do we walk toward healing when the muck of our trauma is so deep we feel like we can’t move forward? Our guest this week has navigated through this very thing (and is still navigating it). The chaotic parts, the hard parts, the painful parts. Author and This American Life producer Stephanie Foo had found success in her thirties–working at her dream job and in a loving relationship. But behind her office door she was having panic attacks daily and sobbing at her desk. After years of questioning what was wrong (and blaming herself), she was diagnosed with complex PTSD–a condition that happens when trauma occurs again and again over many years. She was determined to understand this diagnosis, and the result of her findings is a beautiful and powerful memoir called What My Bones Know. Jen and Stephanie have an illuminating discussion around these topics:  The difference between PTSD and complex PTSD and why that’s an important distinction when it comes to healing How an unresolved mental health issue can impact our physical health, which can manifest (as it did for Stephanie) in panic attacks, joint issues, migraines, and endometriosis.  How our traumas can be handed down through previous generations through our genes, but also through how we were (or weren’t) nurtured.  What it feels like to pull back the curtain on our coping mechanisms to reveal why we react to things the way we do, or why we put up walls in safe places with safe people  Join us for this very real, raw, but gentle conversation as Stephanie’s story sheds light on how to walk away from chaos into healing. * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit by using chimeBetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thought-Provoking Quotes“You can get traditional PTSD from a single traumatic event. So if you're in a car crash, you can get PTSD. Complex PTSD is kind of like if you were in that car crash every week for five years; it's when the trauma occurs over and over and over.” - Stephanie Foo“I felt scared all the time and I was burning out at work. I felt unable to actually produce. It was around 2018, and work had always been my constant source of comfort. And no matter how depressed or anxious I was, I would always be able to be productive. So when I found myself struggling to do that, I felt sort of lost.” - Stephanie Foo“I may have inherited my grandmother's desire and ability to hustle and that might be in my genes. It might be through nurture as well, not nature, and what I was taught as a child. It's kind of a mystery, but it certainly would explain a lot.” - Stephanie Foo Guest’s Links:Stephanie’s WebsiteStepanie’s Instagram Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Complex PTSDMalayan Emergency Road to Resilience Podcast Elissa Bassist What My Bones Know - book by Stephanie FooWhat My Bones Know Audiobook Connect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back, Chaos-breakers! We’re here trying to shake things up with another episode in our For the Love of Calming the Chaos–and this ones hitting us right where we live. Relationships; we’ve all got them, some we’re born into, others we choose, and others choose us. But what happens when certain relationships tax our energy, fill us with dread, and drain us of all ability to manage them? We have a great guide today to help us reframe relationships that have become dysfunctional, and how we can minimize the drama and chaos they bring. Therapist Nedra Tawwab is back on the show, and we couldn’t be happier. Nedra’s wildly popular Instagram account brings us life on the daily with her practical tips on recognizing when relationships are out of whack, how they might have gotten there, and how we can survive and thrive in the midst of it. Nedra has written two best selling books Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself, and Drama Free: A Guide to Managing Unhealthy Family Relationships. Nedra and Jen get into the following topics around eradicating relationship drama in our lives:  The sometimes difficult but very possible ways to begin creating healthy family dynamics  Finding the courage to have conversations with people when they hurt our feelings  How to create boundaries and what to do when those boundaries aren’t respected Learning how to discern love from dysfunction in our relationships Life is full of chaos and confusion, and it is important to find a balance between healthy relationships and self-care to maintain peace. Nedra provides us the tools to express ourselves, say no, and be open to uncomfortable conversations. * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/fortheloveMake Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Storyworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/fortheloveThought-Provoking Quotes“Being a human is a lot of content in and of itself.” - Nedra Tawwab“Adulthood is really interesting because you have this opportunity to grow up and be your own person. But so many of us are still very much our parent's child. And I mean child in the sense that we’re a little child where [our parents] are still very much ruling what we’re able to do–at least when they're with us.” – Nedra Tawwab “How often are we willing to have those conversations and let people know they hurt our feelings?” - Nedra Tawwab“We all have a different capacity to tolerate dysfunctional things.” - Nedra Tawwab“So we really have to disentangle love from dysfunction, because we often think that because I love these people, I have to accept the dysfunction.” - Nedra Tawwab“We have to decide how much we are willing to give of ourselves to be in certain relationships with people, family.” - Nedra Tawwab“The biggest thing we have to focus on is ourselves. And that's really hard because the really easy thing is to change the other person.” - Nedra TawwabGuest’s Links Nedra’s WebsiteNedra’s InstagramNedra’s Facebook Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeSet Boundaries, Find Peace book by Nedra TawwabDrama Free book by Nedra TawwabConnect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re kicking off a new series called For The Love of Calming the Chaos and we’re looking at all the ways chaos invades our lives, how to identify what’s causing it, and how we can forge a way to calmness (at least some of the time). It’s one thing to be busy, tackling the everyday things that need to happen, to feel like you are pulled in a million different directions. It’s another thing to be overwhelmed, where a sense of hopelessness creeps in that the storm of chaos that surrounds your days might never subside. Author and speaker Alexis Jones hit a wall in a life that looked amazing from the outside, but was teeming with chaos and fear on the inside. After several hard-hitting circumstances knocked the wind out of her, she found herself unable to take even the tiniest step forward after living a life that had been full of activity and accomplishments, checking off all the right boxes–and realized she had lost sight of who she really was. Her latest book Joy Hunter: Messy Face Plants, Radical Love, and the Journey That Changed Everything details the story of how she found her way back to herself in the midst of the chaos–and you can too.Jen and Alexis talk about:  The moment Alexis realized how the “gift of falling apart” would show her what really mattered When a tidal wave of chaos causes us to falter, how we can take steps to do something differently What it means to be able to find true joy after true sorrow  How you can reconnect with a version of yourself that is real and authentic * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/fortheloveStoryworth | Save $10 on your first purchase. Visit Storyworth.com/fortheloveMake Me Care About | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.  Thought-Provoking Quotes“If I don't have these things that I can pull out of my back pocket and impress you with, then maybe I'm not extraordinary at all. And maybe I am simply an ordinary girl. And for me, that was never enough.” - Alexis Jones“Every single thing that I'd ever thought made me matter, was taken away from me, one after another. And that was the most beautiful invitation I had ever been given to find out who I really was and to start that journey of enoughness.” - Alexis Jones“We live in a society where it's so easy to numb. It's so easy to distract ourselves so that we don't have to feel all the feelings that are uncomfortable.” - Alexis Jones“I did everything right. I played by the rules and I checked all the boxes and I did all the things. Aren't I supposed to be happy?” - Alexis Jones“An ordinary experience like sitting in an RV, eating canned chili with my best friend and my husband, watching an old movie, and thinking, this is the most joyful I have felt in years.” - Alexis Jones Guest’s Links Alexis’ Website Alexis’ InstagramAlexis’ FacebookAlexis’ Twitter Resources Mentioned in This Episode I Am That Girl - book by Alexis Jones Joy Hunter - book by Alexis Jones Connect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Suleika Jaouad joins our show today to discuss her extraordinary book "Between Two Kingdoms." Suleika shares her story of receiving an early-in-life cancer diagnosis and the way that experience changed her relationship to her sense of community and hope. Suleika is a journalist, writer, speaker, and cancer survivor. She has written for The New York Times, Vogue, and NPR and her memoir “Between Two Kingdoms” details her journey of being treated and recovering from leukemia at the age of twenty two. Join Jen and Suleika as they discuss the following: Suleika's experience of being diagnosed with cancer at a young age and how it changed her perspective in life. The vital role of community and support during challenging times, and how Suleika's own community rallied around her during her illness. The challenges of writing a memoir and going from a journalist to a memoirist, professionally How to practice self compassion while experiencing “Big Grief” in all it’s different stages  * * *Thank you to our sponsors!Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruiseJen Hatmaker Book Club | Use code READ for $5 off your first month at jenhatmakerbookclub.com Me Course — Sex | Sign up for the presale price at 40% off at mecourse.org Thought-Provoking Quotes“I think as a culture we're so focused on positivity and self-improvement and on living our best lives that we sort of forget how to live in discomfort.” - Suleika Jouad “We live in a culture where we're told that if we only work hard enough, we can live the life that we've always wanted to live. I've been told that my whole life. And you know, there's that saying that when you make plans, god laughs.” - Suleika Jouad “I have a post-it note on my desk that's sort of my guiding light in terms of what I'm trying to do when I write. And it says, if you want to write a good book, write what you don't want others to know about you. Yeah. And if you want to write a great book, write what you don't want to know about yourself.” - Suleika Jouad “With the distance of time, I see that what I initially thought of as a complete loss of my identity was actually an invitation to get closer to my truer self.” - Suleika Jouad “I was a planner, I was a doer. I was someone who had a one year plan and a five year plan and a 10 year plan, and all of that went up in smoke when I got sick. Yeah. Um, and I realized that for much of my adult life, all four years of it at that point, uh, I really summed up my sense of self based on achievement, based on my work ethic, based on my output, based on my grade point average. Yep. And all of that was stripped away from me when I got sick. I lost my job overnight. I was dependent on my parents as much as I've been since elementary school. That's right. I lost my independence, even my ability to shower alone, which for someone who doesn't like to ask for help, who had always thought of myself as fiercely independent, that was a hard pill to swallow.” -Suleika Jouad  Guest Links Suleika Jouad WebsiteSuleika’s Instagram - @suleikajaouadSuleika’s Twitter - @suleikajaouadSuleik’s Facebook - @SuleikaJaouadPage Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode “Wolfish” by Erica Berry “Heads of the Colored People” by Nafissa Thompson-Spires“Nonviolent Communication” by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD  Connect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are you smack dab in the middle of the Sandwich Years? That precarious time where you’re squeezed between the demands of caring for aging parents and still supporting children? We’re here for you, and we’ve got a friend to the show who is living it out in real time, sharing how she’s getting through it all. Jenny Hutt was the host of the Just Jenny Show on Sirius XM and is now hosting her own daily podcast–all while dealing with the long-term care of her father (and his recent death) and the launching of her adult children out into the world. Jenny and Jen discuss unique issues relevant to the Sandwich Generation: Learning to re-calibrate your role as a parent in the lives of your newly “launched into the world” kids Dealing with unresolved parent/child issues that sometimes arise with the death of a parent Recognizing generational anxiety and equipping ourselves and our children with the tools to handle it The importance of relying on a strong network of family and friends to draw from during this time (not being afraid to ask for help).  Having the hard conversations with your parents about being prepared for their passing (and also making sure you’re taking care of that for your children too) So whether you’re managing being part of the sandwich generation right now, or you’re mentally preparing yourself for it, or you know someone who is facing it head on, there’s something for all of us to take away from this candid and vulnerable convo with Jen and Jenny.* * *Thank you to our sponsors!FOCL | Your personal dream team of premium hemp CBD + 5 soothing botanicals for a full night of deep, restorative sleep. Get 20% off at FOCL.com using code FORTHELOVE. MeCourse on Parenting Tweens & Teens | Get help parenting during the tween and teen years from Jen and Mercedes Samudio. Visit mecourse.org and sign up today!  Thought-Provoking Quotes“Somebody should have said to us before we had kidS: ‘you're gonna have children and you're gonna be tired and it's gonna be fun when they're babies, but it's also gonna be awful when they're babies. And then, they're gonna grow up and they're gonna leave you. And when they leave you, you're gonna feel like they're gone for good. And you're also gonna feel like you are not gonna make it.’” - Jenny Hutt“While your parents are still healthy is when you have to have the conversation [about their affairs] and it's pretty simple. It's things like if there are bank accounts, designate somebody to automatically have the bank account upon your death.” - Jenny Hutt“Ask [your older parents] all the questions you want answers to, because if you don't ask them now, as uncomfortable as they might be, you're never gonna be able to ask them.” - Jenny Hutt“We all find our purpose at different points in our lives. I think that one of my biggest purposes is to show that you can live through things that feel like you can't live through them.” - Jenny Hutt Guest’s Links WebsiteJust Jenny PodcastInstagramTwitterFacebookYouTube Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBunny Eyez Eyewear For You When I Am Gone by Rabbi Steve Leder Connect with Jen! Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices